IRC log for #brlcad on 20080101

00:02.50Paul58Thanks
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14:49.55brlcadMinuteElectron: yeah, I noticed
14:50.19brlcadthat was the cvs2svn conversion processing through the night
14:50.37MinuteElectronAhh.
14:50.45brlcadsix hours into it, it filled up the disks (around 8am)
14:51.09brlcadi'll need to make more room apparently :)
14:51.15MinuteElectron:D
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17:26.45brlcadarg arg arg..
17:27.11brlcadgoing to take several hours to retry the cvs2svn, have to move a lot of data around and do a few system backups
17:28.03brlcadhopefully eta later tonight (EST) will have it crunching again though
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18:26.33MinuteElectronGrr, this is clearly a case against emacs saving backup files as <filename>~ because if they are in the web root then stuff can get published that you might not neccesserily want to (i.e. passwords).
18:36.18brlcadeep
18:36.45brlcad(not that there should be any passwords in the web root)
18:37.26brlcadjust about finished with the space cleanup so cvs2svn can start again
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18:39.09MinuteElectronbrlcad: Yeah, but before moving the passwords out they were in webroot - fourtunatley you\I didn't use emacs to replace them. :D
18:39.47brlcadheh, true
18:40.03brlcadhm, I could also add an apache directive to forbid all ~ files
18:40.11MinuteElectronAye
18:40.52MinuteElectronBut probably more trouble than it's worth, as long as people know that such a thing could happen.
18:50.51brlcaddone
18:51.13brlcadshould now give forbidden on any ~ or .bak url
18:51.34MinuteElectron:)
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22:25.17yukonbobhello, 2008.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080102

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080102

00:01.04*** join/#brlcad Paul58 (n=Paul@91.102.227.98)
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03:02.45IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/edit.png    <---- happy new year
05:33.43Axman6ow
05:33.54Axman6happy new year man ;)
05:37.46brlcadhappy new year to you!
05:43.13fenniges is so much easier to understand than STEP
05:43.58fenni love it
05:44.18brlcadyou have a copy of the step standard?
05:44.33fennno, i've (tried to) read the drafts
05:45.13brlcadi wasn't aware of any available drafts for ap203/214
05:46.37brlcadiges is much easier, but inherintly more limited too .. and very much a dying format regardless
05:54.03fennyou used to be able to download the pdf here http://www.tc184-sc4.org/SC4_Open/SC4 Legacy Products (2001-08)/STEP_(10303)/200-299/documentation.cfm?CFID=423101&CFTOKEN=29217573&LID=10000&state=2#10000
05:57.21brlcadhuh, not since at least the last two years iirc, at least I was on that same section two years ago and it wasn't there
05:58.07brlcadat least not for 203/214 .. just the schema and some of the addendum/corrections
05:58.26brlcadand a few of the low-level ap's like 11 and 21
05:58.27yukonbobhappy new year, cadheads
05:58.32brlcadhappy new year!
05:58.43yukonbobhow're things, my friend?
05:59.25brlcadgoing pretty good
05:59.55brlcadbeen pushing the repository conversion forward along with debugging the hundreds of changes I coded up while on the road..
06:00.30brlcadhopefully won't run out of disk space this time..
06:01.19yukonbobcvs -> ??? (svn?)
06:21.03brlcadyes, svn
06:21.10brlcadthat's been the plan for over a year
06:21.41Axman6what's been so hard?
06:22.33brlcadnothing been too hard yet other than having it process for over six hours only to fill up all avail disk space :)
06:23.13brlcadthe plan was that we'd convert for 2008 (more specifically by the end of 2007 but close enough)
06:23.54Axman6haha
06:25.40brlcadall that should be left will be to verify that the repo was indeed fully/faithfully/completely converted over, which will take some time
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08:31.32Axman6and like i said, i'm not using macports atm
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12:58.19fennis archer ready for linux yet? does this sound familiar? ./lib/tkimg.so: undefined symbol: tclStubsPtr
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20:47.58brlcadfenn: it should be ready -- i had it compiled and working for 7.10.4 locally
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080103

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080103

01:12.30*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:03.22brlcadnow with a slew of options .. mime-types, eol settings, encodings, revnums, and more
02:14.41yukonbob?hobbles
02:21.14brlcadhobbles off to the gym ;)
02:21.21brlcador at least i'll probably hobble back
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14:40.21``Erik*yawn*
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16:28.50brlcadso the svn upgrade seems to be working well so far -- copied, fixed, annotated, converted, dumped, imported, and now testing
16:29.57brlcadsome interesting numbers, about 650MB CVS repo, a 2.8GB SVN dumpfile, and a 500MB SVN repo
16:30.14poolioalloo
16:30.27brlcadTotal CVS Files:             20129
16:30.28brlcadTotal CVS Revisions:        147518
16:30.28brlcadTotal CVS Branches:          73241
16:30.28brlcadTotal CVS Tags:             281875
16:30.28brlcadTotal Unique Tags:              78
16:30.30brlcadTotal Unique Branches:          32
16:30.33brlcadCVS Repos Size in KB:       516599
16:30.35brlcadTotal SVN Commits:           29885
16:30.38brlcadFirst Revision Date:    Thu Dec 15 19:06:47 1983
16:30.40brlcadLast Revision Date:     Mon Dec 31 15:25:14 2007
16:30.49poolioWow.
16:31.37brlcadinteresting that it's cvs repo size doesn't match du
16:31.45brlcads/it's/its/
16:33.03brlcadalso interesting that cvs2svn calculated 29885 collapsed commits while ohloh counts 27635
16:33.45Z80-Boybrlcad: sounds like changing from CVS to SVN
16:33.45brlcadhm, or the discrepancy is branch activity
16:34.06brlcadyes
16:34.11brlcadwhat I've been working on the past few days
16:53.14CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/rcstemplate: add a commit template that points users to the svn repo (precursor to outright preventing commits during this migration).
16:53.27CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/checkoutlist: check out the rcstemplate
16:56.20CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/rcsinfo: use the log template that informs committers that the repository is moving/moved (so should not commit..)
17:01.42CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/checkoutlist: test template, sort
17:13.23CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/avail: enable CVS access control, add an avail file that only allows mods to CVSROOT
17:14.02CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/checkoutlist: checkout the avail file
17:15.03CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/commitinfo: enable CVS access control via the cvs_acls precommit hook
17:16.30CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: test acl
17:58.54``Erikdoes that mean no more cvs commits?
18:01.12``Erikayup, post holiday diet in full effect :D
18:02.34``Erikheh, "liboobs", classy
18:07.37``Erik99 little bugs in the code, 99 bugs in the code, fix one bug, compile it again...  101 little bugs in the code....
18:11.22``Erik<cesarb> Damn, every time I spawn, qf-client-x11 locks hard
18:11.22``Erik<Zoid> Don't die?
18:11.22``Erik<Knghtbrd> good incentive.
18:11.24``Eriknice
18:23.17``ErikWildCode: Debugging X is like trying to run a straight line through a maze.  You just need to bend space-time so that the corners move around you and you won't have any problems.
18:23.40``Erikah, fortune, such a brilliant way to spend time as the compiles grind
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19:15.47IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/xwin32.png   <---- heheheh happy new year :)
19:25.17poolio...another havoc eh?
19:26.00IriX64heh yea havoc runs amoc :)
20:11.52IriX64did you see edit.png? thats an angle-distance cursor...
20:14.51IriX64your faceplate is good :)
21:13.23brlcadyeah, the validation is going just fine so far, so no more cvs unless a major hurdle is hit .. waiting on the dumpfile to load up now
23:05.36louipcnice
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080104

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080104

01:19.12*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-031-001.pools.arcor-ip.net)
01:46.31poolioSomewhat amusing that another project I worked on just converted repositories...svn -> git
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01:54.52louipchar har
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03:05.59starseekergit seems to be good for non-centralized projects where a lot of work goes on in separate branches and then needs to be merged back in.
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17:26.02brlcadhour and a half remaining on the upload
17:42.08CIA-30libirc: 03brlcad * r368 10/trunk/libirc/ (AUTHORS NEWS src/ircBasicCommands.cpp): accept a patch from Barna Faragó that fixes the PONG reply to server PING requests
18:05.52*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu)
18:25.56brlcadstill has a half hour, and then however long to load (probably another half hour)
18:26.17brlcadnearly 3GB transfer
18:26.46``Erikstill on the road?
18:27.19brlcadnope
18:27.25``Erik<-- grumpy about being back O.o :)
18:27.30brlcadon the couch
18:27.59poolioyou guys still on vacation?
18:32.21``Eriknot I
18:38.02brlcadnot really
18:46.50``Erik"His troops would follow him anywhere ... but only out of morbid curiousity!"
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080105

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080105

00:08.52*** join/#brlcad bjorkintosh (n=bjork@ip72-204-54-41.fv.ks.cox.net)
00:09.19bjorkintoshhmm.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080106

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080106

00:23.32stuporglu1Could someone tell me if BRL-CAD would be an appropriate tool for the following? I want to make a TV cabinet, but I want to model it first, including a folding top and some other moving parts. If I create the cabinet in BRL-CAD, can I run it through the movements to verify that there is enough clearance for all movements?
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19:19.54starseekerOnce again I somehow miss major news - PVS got released under the GPL.
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19:59.03archivistPVS?
20:08.48fennhttp://pvs.csl.sri.com/introduction.shtml
20:17.30archivisthmm interesting
20:21.51*** join/#brlcad smudla (n=smudla@ip-89-103-100-226.karneval.cz)
20:22.03smudlahi folks
20:24.27smudlai've got some questions about brlcad, is anyone alive here? :-)
20:27.31smudlai'm looking for a linux 3d modeller for my design of a sailing yacht
20:29.40fennfor hull design or all the little bits?
20:29.54fennbrlcad is better for geometrically shaped bits
20:29.58smudlaso i would like to talk to any experienced brlcad user... i was considering modelling in blender but that's really rather artistic modeller than cad
20:30.33smudlahull design is best to do in specialized programs like delftship etc...
20:31.24smudlai mean hull design in terms of stability, hydrodinamics and other marine-related stuff
20:32.47smudlaso, for now, say that my hull (simply the hull, ie outer dimensions) is finished
20:33.36smudlanow i need to create a precise model of whole yacht, so of course model of the hull but with all the things inside
20:33.53fennwhy do you need to create a precise model of the yacht?
20:35.38archivistsomeone did a ship fly through movie from a brlcad model
20:35.48smudlaheh...why are 3d models made generally...
20:36.15archivistbetter visualisation of the object
20:36.17smudladocumentation, manufacturing data
20:37.02archivistI find I am faster designing in 3d nowadays
20:39.08smudlafrankly, my boat wont be a megayacht but still, 8 metres sailing boat is too expensive thing to make it a trial-error way, so i need everything modelled before i even touch a hammer :-)
20:43.22smudlaso, one of my questions is: is it possible to "draw" a pair of curves through precise coordinates and then to form a surface between these curves?
20:44.11smudla(imagine upper line of the side of the boat and the waterline for example)
20:46.40smudlagenerally irregular, non-developable surface but precisely determined using several points
20:47.08alex_jonisounds like NURBS modelling to me
20:49.19smudlaexacly
20:49.41smudlano problem with brlcad?
20:50.28brlcadhello smudla
20:50.56brlcadsmudla: are you the one that posted to the forums about hull modelling a while back?
20:51.30smudlano, that a different fool :-)
20:51.45brlcadif you can precisely define the shape of the hull in terms of existing implicit surfaces, then brl-cad will work very well for you
20:52.37smudlayes, i have exact coordinates of enough points on the surface to create it uniquely
20:52.45brlcadotherwise for arbitrary spline surfaces, you're either going to be using an experimental primitive (brl-cad has spline surfaces, but not yet production-ready) or will be using some intermediate type (BoT's with smoothed normals, for example)
20:53.55brlcadas for what you want to do .. drawing a pair of curves through precise coordinates .. that would usually be provided via a birail primitive
20:54.04brlcadwhich .. brl-cad does not yet have
20:54.21smudlamaybe i dont understand the term "implicit surfaces"
20:55.58brlcadthat's a much longer topic to explain .. but for now just think of it like whether you can construct the hull using CSG primitives instead of using a birail or spline surface
20:56.53brlcadhere are most of the primitives supported in brl-cad: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Primitives3_grouped.png
20:57.21brlcadthat doesn't include the developmental surfaces (superellipsoids, metaballs, and nurbs, maybe a couple others)
20:57.22smudlathx, i'll have a look
20:59.12brlcadsmudla: I think you'll *really* want something that will let you model using a birail primitive if your precise dataset is pointwise, which doesn't leave you with many non-commercial CAD options
20:59.20smudlahmm, i can hardly imagine a hull shape created from any of these primitives...
20:59.23brlcadi believe blender does have a birail, but then as you mentioned, it's not great for cad
20:59.46brlcadsmudla: you'd probably be surprised what you can make with those primitives ;)
21:00.04smudlayea, thats exactly what i'm coming across
21:00.18brlcadwe do have ships in brl-cad constructed with primitives, just usually requires an entirely different design approach and thought process
21:01.48brlcadthat said, if you're a developer, I'd be more than glad to help you implement a birail primitive :-)
21:01.49smudlain fact, i take brlcad as the only possibility to do my task in non-commercial cad...all other projects are significantly less developed
21:02.17starseekerbrlcad:  I'll bet the sf admins are going to shoot you when they figure out how big this svn archive is :-)  I'm making a backup tarball and so far it's heading towards 8 gigs with no end in sight ;-)
21:02.20brlcadyeah, we're by far the most developed.. and we still need TONS of effort
21:02.45smudlasorry...i am a developer, but my job is hw development...so electronics...sorry :-)
21:03.12brlcadstarseeker: the archive itself is much more compressed
21:03.27brlcadyou're doing a checkout of the top-level?
21:03.29starseekerAh :-)
21:03.49starseekerMore or less by mistake - I just grabbed the command on sf's svn page
21:04.22brlcade.g. if I tagged the repository 100 times, it'll be 100x size on checkout but only 1x + few bytes per tag in the repository
21:04.35brlcadyeah, their instructions are a bit wonky
21:04.35starseekerAh.
21:04.42starseekerthat explains a lot
21:04.45brlcadthought they do warn in not so many words
21:05.14starseekerI'm too used to the cvs side I guess...
21:05.16brlcadI suspect a full top-level checkout is going to be .. huge
21:05.23starseekerIt was
21:05.46PrezKennedysourceforge is turning evil
21:07.54*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
21:08.23brlcadPrezKennedy: how so?
21:09.22PrezKennedywindow popped up asking me if i wanted to be notified if paid support for the program i was downloading became available
21:09.23brlcadlooks like there is about 100 tags and branches so it's going to be about 100x the real size .. which looks like about 50-200 MB/tag|branch
21:09.31brlcadewww
21:09.58PrezKennedystill like it for the software of course... but they just seem to be piling on junk now to make a buck
21:10.25brlcadsome marketing weenie has gotten ahold of their web team -- they've been trying to push the new marketplace for a couple months
21:11.07brlcadfirst with some exceptionally annoyingly bright gold "button" (which they later toned way way down)
21:11.14starseekerbrlcad:  How long until the cvs repo goes away in favor of svn?  few months testing time?
21:11.15PrezKennedythey should try making forums that dont suck... thats where most the support takes place
21:12.44starseekerHoliday gatherings always seem to be a guarantee of importing some exotic code germ from somewhere...
21:12.55brlcadstarseeker: um, probably never "away", unless you mean no longer displayed .. but yeah, probably a release or two after svn is fully verified
21:13.39starseekerbrlcad:  I was just thinking if future development was taking place only in svn, having the cvs repo still listed could cause some confusion when people checked it out and saw no changes...
21:13.52curiousstarseeker, sorry for continuing offtopic , but if you will google for 'transfer factor' you can turn that bug into feature
21:14.04curiousstarseeker, there are easy immunization methods.
21:14.39brlcadstarseeker: yeah, I know that
21:14.49brlcadthat's what I meant about it being "hidden" but not really going away
21:15.02brlcadi.e. it won't be deleted, but yeah, not displayed
21:15.06starseekerright.  I just didn't know when the cvs tree would stop receiving updates
21:15.19brlcadthat's already happened
21:15.23starseekerAh :-)
21:15.44brlcadunless I run into a big problem this week
21:15.51starseekerrighto :-)
21:15.56PrezKennedymurphy's law
21:16.00smudlabrlcad: you mentioned some forum, where could i find it?
21:17.15brlcadalready verified several things so far: successful dump and clean import, ability to extract full log, still trying to verify ability to checkout everything (first attempt failed in branches)
21:17.38brlcadsmudla: I didn't mention any forums, but we do have forums up on sourceforge
21:17.45brlcadhttp://sourceforge.net/forum/?group_id=105292
21:17.54starseekerpretty impressive, given that you're probably close to a record for size of history being converted ;-)
21:18.39smudla21:50:53 <brlcad> smudla: are you the one that posted to the forums about hull modelling a while back?
21:19.18brlcadooooh, so I did *blush*
21:19.25smudla;-)
21:19.35smudlathanks a lot, anyway :-)
21:21.59brlcadI think I was thinking of this message: http://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=4351966
21:22.18brlcada skin primitive would also have helped with what you're trying to do
21:24.09brlcadwhich might change too :)
21:24.26brlcadright now it was all imported as a single-project repository
21:24.35brlcadi'm *really* not sure that I like it that way
21:25.00starseekerHmm.  You thinking to break out the major libraries into their own repositories?
21:25.09brlcadno no
21:25.36brlcadwhen you set up conversion from cvs to svn, you can do it as a single repository or as multiple projects
21:25.47starseekerOh, OK.
21:26.06brlcadmostly impacting where the trunk/tags/branches triplets are -- one at the top-level, or one for each module
21:26.54brlcaddifference of needing to do svn co https://brlcad.svn.sf.net:/svnroot/brlcad/trunk/brlcad brlcad  versus  svn co https://brlcad.svn.sf.net:/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
21:27.30starseekerGot it.
21:29.23starseekerThe more fine-grained approach does seem to make sense
21:30.56smudlabrlcad: thanks for the link, it seems to be interesting, maybe i wont give up my brlcad-efforts :-)
21:32.20brlcadsmudla: best of luck to you whichever path you take, of course
21:32.40brlcadI really do hope we get nurbs and birail primitives working soon, there's just so much to do that one has to choose their battles
21:34.20starseekerNiiice.  The svn configure uses the system libs in all but 4 cases
21:34.52smudlabrlcad: is there any estimation of "soon"? :-)
21:35.56smudlai mean if we are talking about months or years...
21:37.45brlcadsmudla: entirely depends on how many developers are working on what .. which does tend to fluctuate drastically
21:37.51brlcad~spell drastically
21:37.57brlcadhuh
21:38.59brlcadI can say, however, that fully NURBS representation support is our #1 core priority at the moment, followed closely by STEP conversion support
21:40.08smudlaso good luck
21:40.15brlcadthat effort alone exhausts most existing developer resources for the next 6 months minimum
21:41.06brlcadthat said .. a birail primitive wouldn't really be that hard for a dev.. probably could be fully implemented in less than a month with guidance
21:41.09smudlaagain, pity that i'm a hardware guy so i can't contribute with code
21:44.59Z80-Boysmudla: hehe nekdo z cech?
21:46.13smudlakusuj vole, be social and speak in english... i'm doing my best although my english is terrible :-)
21:46.57Z80-Boysmudla: where are you from?
21:47.10smudlaPilsen
22:02.24starseekerSweet - NSIS!
22:02.40starseekerGood news indeed
22:11.39brlcadsmudla: your english is great
22:11.50brlcadbetter than many westerners ;)
22:12.06starseekerIndeed :-)
22:12.20starseekerAll we speak over here is American :-P
22:13.32smudlahaha...stop making fun of me :-D
22:16.18smudlai cannot find any debian package of brlcad...you probably don't know about some too...?
22:19.49brlcadnot yet properly integrated with apt yet
22:19.58brlcada couple have worked on it, but nobody to completion
22:20.10brlcadthere is a .deb for 7.8.4 on the website iirc
22:21.04brlcadthat should work fine for a new user, otherwise you can compile from source and it'll install isolated into /usr/brlcad
22:22.01smudlathat seems to be the best way
22:23.15smudlamaybe i can start with older version, you're right...now i'm interested mostly in the ARS primitive
22:23.45smudlabecause "waterline" sounds quite familiar to me :-)
22:30.23brlcad:-)
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23:02.00smudlai'm browsing the documentation of brlcad but i can't find any detailed info about primitives...where could i for example learn about how to input the waterlines?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080107

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080107

01:37.15brlcadahh
02:23.07starseekerahh?
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05:03.49Axman6ahh!
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07:29.43brlcadahh. :)
07:44.49pooliooooooh.
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15:31.44brlcadnow to figure out the apparent svn checkout glitch on cup.g
15:41.34MinuteElectronDrupal on new BRL-CAD has been taken into off-line mode due to a security breach, I'll bring it back up once I work out how the security breach was able to occur and have cleaned it up.
15:42.13brlcadeek
15:42.18brlcadokay, thanks
15:42.23brlcadwhat did you notice?
15:43.18MinuteElectronSome guy e-mailed me saying he could make himself a superuser, so i checked and there are about 5 or 10 superusers when there should only be two.
15:43.32MinuteElectronI know why, fixing as we speak.
15:45.08MinuteElectronbrlcad: Are you wanting anyone to be able to edit the pages?
15:45.11Z80-BoyDrupal is the new website?
15:45.21brlcadplease do share why, so I can avoid it elsewhere (perhaps via pm)
15:45.58brlcaddepends which pages
15:45.58Z80-BoyI had twiki on Ronja and it also security breached, despite the fact I applied the annoyingly complicated security patches they issued
15:45.58brlcadfor most of the drupal page, no not really .. for the wiki, sure
15:45.59Z80-BoyThen I had mediawiki and it got filled with viagra spam
15:46.56MinuteElectronI accidentally set up the permissions system so that "authenticated users" could do some of the admin stuff - but since anyone can create an account loads of people became authenticated users and could do what they liked with the settings. So, my fault.
15:47.58brlcadyou've said both those before Z80-Boy .. think you had mediawiki "poorly" configured as I've been spamfree on other hosts for nearly a year now with the right measures in place
15:48.33Z80-Boyit's a similar type of incident
15:48.37brlcadah, so just a misconfiguration
15:48.44Z80-BoyI mean especially the twiki one
15:48.48brlcadI wouldn't consider that a security breach
15:48.55Z80-Boyno the twiki one was configured properly and I applied the right patches
15:49.10brlcadwasn't referring to you :)
15:49.18MinuteElectronbrlcad: Well, they accesed pages that they shouldn't have access too.
15:49.31MinuteElectronAnd someone screwed about with the sidebar a bit.
15:49.37brlcadsure, not good to have :)
15:49.54brlcadjust no more of a breach than if I add all users to wheel on a server :)
15:50.01MinuteElectronsure
15:50.03brlcadjust not good :)
15:50.13brlcadnice of the guy to e-mail though
15:50.33MinuteElectronbrlcad: What is the status of moving the site to live?
15:50.57brlcadis everything done with the new redesign now?
15:51.06brlcadwrt ie6
15:52.01MinuteElectronYep, everything is good to go except for some forms in the administration pages which have a temporary hack to make them not drop to the bottom of the page - although I'm looking into fixing that.
15:52.21MinuteElectronoh, and I have to reenable the sidebar following our "misconfiguration".
15:53.18MinuteElectronOh, right.
15:53.22brlcadooh, nice ... it works better!
15:53.34MinuteElectronThe poll didn't jsut disspaear - you set up a "Poll duration".
15:53.36MinuteElectronbrlcad: :
15:53.38MinuteElectron:)
15:53.41brlcadalmost flawless, some problems with some of the bezels
15:54.35MinuteElectronThat is because of the alpha transparency flattening thing - there is a solution to that in IE6 w/ JS, but not without. I'll add that to the top of my list.
15:54.52MinuteElectronIs there anything else of concern preventing the site from going live?
15:54.54brlcadhrm?
15:54.58brlcadthe header looks perfect
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15:55.06brlcadsearch and footer look perfect
15:55.31MinuteElectronbrlcad: I thought you meant bezel as in the header, when you resize the window to very small the overlap is a bit wierd.
15:55.38MinuteElectronWhich bezel are you talking about?
15:55.46brlcadonly the bottom of the rounded boxes in the content area have a problem
15:56.08MinuteElectronOh, yeah.
15:56.33alex_joniMinuteElectron: there's also a small 3D flaw :)
15:56.54alex_jonithe text "OPEN SOURCE SOLID MODELING" is in fron of that cube.. right?
15:57.08MinuteElectronyes,
15:57.25brlcadbezel is the rounded edge on the boxes -- there's a bezel on the top menu, the search boxes, the right panel boxes, and the main page's brl-cad description
15:57.27alex_jonithere is some other graphics behind that text and behind the DOWNLOAD link
15:57.37brlcadall of the bezels are right except for those last two
15:58.04alex_joniif you resize the browser to very small then the other graphic is in front of the black base the cube sits on
15:58.18MinuteElectronyeah, ok - I'll increase the minimum width to fix this flaw
15:58.23Z80-Boylet's model a 3D gym and then get some open source solid muscles
15:58.34Z80-Boyor we can at least model muscles
15:58.45alex_joniMinuteElectron: nah, don't worry.. maybe you can put it on another layer?
15:58.53brlcadMinuteElectron: I think it can be fixed just by layering it underneath the left title
15:59.08MinuteElectronmaybe, I'll look into it
15:59.15alex_joniimo, it's not a real flaw..
15:59.39alex_jonibut since brlcad is a 3D app.. it might be annoying for CAD freaks :P
16:00.02brlcadright now it's over, so small windows see the overlap
16:00.22brlcadi could live with that one -- the bezel error is more disturbing
16:00.34MinuteElectronok
16:01.14PrezKennedybrlcad, whats the uptime on your bz server?
16:02.11MinuteElectronup 116 days, 12:55
16:02.58PrezKennedythe best ive managed is 50 on this windows 2003 server before i had to reboot for updates...
16:03.20MinuteElectronOn bz there was once 499 days 10 hours.
16:04.03PrezKennedyits running freebsd isnt it?
16:04.17MinuteElectronyep
16:06.23MinuteElectronOk, so from what I can see there are two design bugs that need fixing before going live. I'll do these once asap - other than that is there anything else that needs doing?
16:07.36brlcadPrezKennedy: the "uptime" commmand will tell you ;)   but yeah, what ME said for both
16:08.16PrezKennedybrlcad, i know... after i asked i went and downloaded putty and logged in
16:09.03brlcad:)
16:09.11brlcadyou want a better ssh client?
16:09.23brlcadMinuteElectron: http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/bezel.jpg is what I'm seeing
16:09.32PrezKennedybrlcad, whats the name of it?
16:09.38PrezKennedyif you say linux i wont be impressed :-P
16:10.12brlcadonly messes up the bottom bezel for the first box, then top and bottom for the next ones .. making me think it might just be an extra open/close tag
16:10.35brlcadPrezKennedy: heh, no .. the SSH client from SSH Communications
16:10.35MinuteElectronyeah
16:10.58brlcadthe last free version they provided before they closed it up and made it pay-only
16:11.38PrezKennedyis it still available on their site or will i have to hunt it down?
16:12.43brlcadyou'll need to uber super secret url
16:12.52brlcadand the secret handshake
16:14.28alex_jonibrlcad: how is it better then putty?
16:15.47brlcadmm, hard to describe .. putty is pretty bare bones
16:16.49brlcadssh's has a really nice gui with toggles for sftp/ssh, explorer-like interface, session and key management, pretty user-friendly as you can get
16:17.55brlcadMinuteElectron: heh, a lot of good that did me :)
16:18.18PrezKennedyi like it
16:18.23PrezKennedythanks brlcad :)
16:18.41brlcadit's good stuff
16:19.04MinuteElectronbrlcad: heh
16:19.47PrezKennedywhen i finally get tired of games altogether ill go linux or mac :P
16:21.06alex_jonibrlcad: do the keys work outside of it?
16:21.13alex_jonie.g. using ssh keys for cvs
16:24.07brlcadbeats me
16:25.45brlcadit's a client circa '97 or so, before SSH Communications got all fancy and started tossing in the kitchen sink features and truely seamless explorer integration
16:27.42brlcadlike I said, their last free version they provided .. I just find it useful for those rare times that I'm actually on Windows (but still needing to get off of Windows)
16:29.20alex_joniI like putty.. especially late versions are great
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17:21.00pooliobrlcad: My school paid for it and I use the new non-free version when not in a unix-based OS :)
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20:23.20yukonbobhello, cadheads
20:24.23pooliohowdy bob
20:25.29yukonbobhey poolio :) -- what's shaking?
20:29.17pooliome. got some sort of disease :)
20:59.20yukonbobpoolio:  ?
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22:04.14pooliobrlcad: you around?
22:06.11brlcadoften
22:07.19brlcadpoolio: whatcha need?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080108

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080108

00:54.24*** part/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu)
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01:11.14brlcadblasted .. http://www.boingboing.net/2008/01/07/making-3d-models-fro.html
01:35.48brlcadright in line with my research idea, sans the manual user hinting
03:47.31*** join/#brlcad vedge (i=vedge@vedge.org)
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13:47.22``Erikhehehe "lynix"
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14:36.06PrezKennedyso i heard about this cool new thing with a penguin called lunix
14:38.34``Erikheh, I vaguelly recall a "lunix" being a c64 unix
14:38.56``Erikwhy, yes, from '93, http://lng.sourceforge.net/
14:40.06PrezKennedySourceForge -- It's forever...
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21:19.17yukonbobafternoon cadheads
21:21.21brlcadhowdy yukonbob
21:22.01iraytraceafternoon.
21:28.37yukonbob:) Happy New Year... what's shaking, folks?
21:28.53brlcadbusy day
21:29.06brlcadtoo much to do, too few devs to do it :)
21:53.06iraytraceSo pretty much a normal day then. ;-)
21:57.34brlcadheh, yup
22:16.54yukonbobnice...
22:16.57yukonbob:)
22:17.23yukonbobhow's the cvs->svn going?
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23:06.47brlcadyukonbob: pretty good, almost done but a few bumps that need fixing and I'm going to reimport as a multiproject instead of the default single project structuring
23:11.02yukonbobbrlcad: nice to hear... and then from my perspective, I'll just be using svn on my local copy instead of cvs?
23:12.50yukonbobchat later folks -- good afternoon :)
23:12.51yukonbobcd ~
23:14.14brlcadah, too quick
23:15.02brlcadyes, just s/cvs/svn/ for the most part, though everyone will have to checkout again
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080109

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080109

00:19.44iraytraceWhat does it mean to have a "multiproject"?
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04:40.25``Erikbz's blurb is totally stolen from dod reg
04:40.49``Erikiirc, it's made available to all free of license issues
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07:35.15*** part/#brlcad illethal (n=oden@c-69-137-199-63.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
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14:43.38*** join/#brlcad Defcon (n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be)
14:43.42Defconhey all!!
14:43.54Defconhave you guys seen this: http://www.acvt.com.au/research/videotrace/
14:44.03Defcon[www.acvt.com.au] Australian Centre for Visual Technologies | VideoTrace: Rapid interactive scene modelling from video
14:54.10Defconbrlcad ?
15:11.40*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130)
15:15.18``Erikhummmm, BRL-CAD is on "rung 1" of coverities check stuff, and apparently dept of homeland insecurity is funding testing on foss crap
15:19.50Defconinsecurity ^^
15:23.21Z80-Boy``Erik: what do you mean particularly?
15:23.42``Erikhttp://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/09/0027229
15:25.05alex_jonihttp://scan.coverity.com/rung1.html
15:25.13``Erikayup, tha'ts where we are
15:25.52``ErikI'm assuming the rungs are decided with brackets on bugs per 1k lines, since we include blt which is rung0
15:27.09Defcon0.0474 defects per thousand lines of code
15:27.10``Erikamusingly, vim has more lines of code than emacs, yet vim has no listed defects... :D
15:27.12Defconlol
15:29.17Z80-BoySo IIRC, BRL-CAD being on rung1 means that Coverity provides a mailing list for security of BRL-CAD.
15:30.41Z80-BoyIIRC -> IIUIC
15:31.06``ErikIICFOTA
15:31.07``Erik:D
15:31.09``ErikO:-)
16:43.16*** join/#brlcad jgay (n=jgay@fsf/staff/jgay)
17:36.47PrezKennedyhaha KDE has more lines of code than Linux
18:38.19brlcadthe "178,135 lines of code" in our Rung 1 listing is a dead give-away that something's wrong  ;)
18:40.44brlcadyeah "Coverity Prevent SQS" was the full name, company Coverity, but it is their main/only real product so coverity == prevent for the most part
18:46.32*** join/#brlcad vedge (i=vedge@vedge.org)
18:47.29brlcadhm, and i'm unable to log into our coverity report .. server must be overloaded :)
19:19.23``Erikum, I think there's a port block in the way. I was able to telnet to it from another machine, so I tried running firefox remote X from there and the page came up
19:23.14*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.185.1)
19:32.02brlcadahh, true dat, thanks
20:17.35*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-82-35.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:30.38PrezKennedysomehow they let port 22 go though :-P
21:42.02*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@S010600195bd5c415.lb.shawcable.net)
21:42.15yukonbobhello, cadheads
21:51.04brlcadhowdy yukonbobbers
21:51.20yukonbobdo de do
21:51.22yukonbob:)
21:53.05yukonbobhrmm -- /me just noticed mged doesn't run from his launcher...
21:54.39yukonbob(dmenu, on dwm)
21:56.59brlcadmmm
21:57.03brlcadyou made a launcher for it?
22:03.02yukonbobAlt-P in dwm
22:03.10yukonbob(and dmenu installed)
22:09.24brlcadgot it
22:09.54yukonbobbrlcad: you a dwm user?
22:10.11brlcadnope
22:10.21brlcadused pwm back in the day
22:10.37brlcadand blackbox/fluxbox
22:10.42brlcadand windowmaker
22:10.51yukonboband now?
22:11.01brlcademacs in a console :)
22:11.05yukonbobheh -- nice
22:11.49yukonbobbetter fonts ;)
22:12.01brlcadotherwise I'm usually on a mac .. but then still emacs in a Terminal 95% of the time i'm not using a browser or photoshop
22:12.59yukonbobs/emacs/xemacs/ for me, but same thing -- /me saw an emacs WM somewhere a while ago... so you could use elisp/emacs to run X if you wanted to :)
22:14.25yukonbobif you end up running X, /me can recommend dwm, though -- a few lines of C and that's it -- is mostly used as a tiling manager, but supports floating too -- good keybindings...
22:14.38brlcadyeah, I saw/tried the new aqua emacs .. it actually really impressed me to the point that I could see returning to windowed emacs
22:14.51yukonbobnice...
22:14.52brlcadbut I would miss being able to ctrl-z and run command-line stuff
22:14.57brlcad<PROTECTED>
22:15.17yukonbobM-! foo
22:15.40brlcadyeah, not the same :)
22:15.46brlcadsame with sh-mode
22:16.22yukonbob(if you want multiple shells)
22:17.19brlcadI more miss command-line editing
22:17.56brlcadthings like tab-completion, reverse edit searches
22:18.27yukonbobah -- /me uses !!, !-2, etc, then typical emacs editing, or searches backwards through the buffer ;)
22:27.54brlcadjust not as efficient as tab-tab when doing stuff quick
22:32.23louipctab rules
22:37.46*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-091-253.pools.arcor-ip.net)
22:49.00alex_joniwould this be a nice CAD monitor? http://gizmodo.com/341413/alienware-curved-monitor-looks-like-its-from-another-planet
22:49.53PrezKennedyyay! time to go home!
22:50.43louipcI'd want a cad monitor that looks like a drafting table
22:51.04louipcand the table is also the input for drawing
22:52.37brlcadalex_joni: sure, why not .. but pixel count is usually more important than actual size
22:52.52brlcadhigh-density big multiple displays help
22:53.16brlcadyou'd get more bang per buck with one 30" I bet
22:53.26alex_jonibrlcad: yeah, I guess a 9MP monitor is way more usefull.. but that one loked nice
22:55.03yukonboblouipc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcKqyn-gUbY
22:59.59louipcYESS
23:02.18yukonboblouipc: if you're really into it, and have a DIY attitude, there are plans to build things like this on the interweb, and "touchlib", a library (originally Windows, but apparently now ported to Linux) to interpret multitouch.
23:02.47louipcduude
23:02.57louipcwhere?
23:04.05alex_jonigiyf :)
23:04.31yukonbobalex_joni ++
23:04.43yukonboblouipc: see "led ir multitouch"
23:04.50yukonboblouipc: see "led ir multitouch diy"
23:05.56alex_jonihttp://www.mortalspaces.com/diytouchpanels/
23:07.08yukonbob^--- ya -- that's the one I was looking at few days ago -- seemed like a good way to get up to speed
23:07.33yukonbobhttp://www.whitenoiseaudio.com/touchlib/
23:08.15alex_joniI saw a multitouch table made with some fluid filled plastic bag
23:08.47yukonbobthis stuff is IR-perterbness measurements
23:08.55alex_joniwebcam on the bottom of the table, light from the side, a plastic bag filled with greenish fluid.. when you push the bag it'll change colour
23:09.05yukonbob??"perterbness" -- you get the idea...
23:09.20alex_joniperturbness?
23:09.25yukonbobhehe
23:09.59yukonbobmeasures if/how-much the IR is perterbed by touching the topside of a sandwich with IR light in it...
23:10.10yukonbob*perturbed
23:10.12alex_joniright..
23:10.43alex_joni"Results 1 - 10 of about 36 for perturbness." <- not a real word
23:10.58yukonbobperturbiousity?
23:11.00yukonbob;)
23:11.07alex_joni"Results 1 - 1 of 1 for perterbness." <- even less
23:11.28alex_joniYour search - perturbiousity - did not match any documents.
23:11.32yukonbob!nice
23:11.41yukonbobgoogle whacking
23:12.02alex_joniheh
23:14.06alex_jonihttp://upload.wikimedia.org/math/b/f/b/bfb83a185b234f232f82573c5dd03303.png
23:33.17yukonbobcd ~
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080110

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080110

02:38.05*** join/#brlcad vedge (i=vedge@vedge.org)
04:12.42*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1128565609.dsl.bell.ca)
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07:19.42*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
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09:52.41*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-087-063.pools.arcor-ip.net)
10:02.42brlcadsvn rebuild completed a couple hours ago, but still uploading to sf.net .. eta about 4 hours to test it
10:03.23Z80-Boybrlcad: I'm still working on the video...
10:03.41Z80-Boybrlcad: now I have a problem that I didn't get a permission for the end titles so I have to use a different tune that means resynchronize again
10:04.06Z80-BoyAnd I wrote a software to put backgrounds on videos of rendered models using the floating point double distance
10:04.17Z80-BoyNow I want to put more backgrounds which I took pictures of
10:05.25brlcadcool
10:05.37brlcadlemme know when new one is re-encoded
10:05.58Z80-Boyhave you seen it already with the backgrounds?
10:06.35Z80-BoyIf not, mplayer http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/all.ogg
10:08.58brlcadthat light wall makes it a bit harder to see the brick wall
10:09.09brlcadseems out of scale a bit too
10:10.14Z80-Boyyes I want to change the backgrounds to fix this problem
10:10.23brlcadthey're not bad, but they contrast the rendering heavily
10:10.44Z80-BoyDo you think they are better than a black background?
10:11.27brlcadmaybe only layer them at 40% transparency to black so they're darker and just faint notions
10:12.37Z80-Boysounds like a good idea to me
10:12.38brlcadotherwise, as is, I think I did like the black better, less busy, real consistent
10:12.41Z80-BoyI was always bad in art
10:12.43Z80-Boy;-)
10:12.54Z80-BoyI hated how it was all computersy
10:13.12Z80-BoyIf I got a video like that I would be bored in 5 seconds
10:15.13brlcadyou could speed up the rotations a bit or even better maybe would be to do a bell curve accelleration where it spins fast-slow-fast like it's slowing down to show you various angles
10:15.14Z80-BoyWhat I don't like onm open source is it's often as boring as a teddy bear
10:16.03brlcad(e.g., try to get it under 2 min with same content)
10:16.11Z80-BoyIf I work on my own free software I find it amazing. But if I come into contact with another one I find it boring.
10:16.18Z80-BoyI think the expression is missing somewhere
10:16.24Z80-BoyYes I could make it twice as fast
10:16.39brlcadmight be too fast, hard to say without seeing it
10:16.55Z80-BoyThere's even a rule in filmmaking
10:17.01Z80-Boythat you should often speed up the movie
10:17.15Z80-BoyBecause otherwise movements at natural speed are boring long
10:17.35Z80-BoyLike if you watch Dogtown and Z-Boys...
10:17.59Z80-BoyThe guys look like skateboarding on a different planet because their period is too short for what I know from the skate park.
10:18.04brlcadtransitions between the objects, even as simple frame fades/blends of next for all of 2-4 seconds would help
10:18.19Z80-BoyWhy?
10:18.28Z80-BoyIn movies you often have plain cuts and it looks great
10:18.55brlcadyeah, but they also change the camera view on every cut
10:19.04brlcadyou're not, you're changing the model
10:19.33Z80-Boyare you sure they change the view? Is it some kind of rule for good filmmaking?
10:19.38brlcadif the camera popped around or was moving, the plain cuts would work well
10:19.41Z80-BoyAll I know one should not change over "the line" :)
10:20.40brlcadever watch an episode of battlestar galactica?  they take it to an extreme where what are subtle camera movements are intentionally *very* exaggerated
10:21.04Z80-Boyhaven't seen battlestar galactica
10:22.01brlcadof the ken burns effect, famous for making entire movies out of still pictures
10:22.17brlcadby simply shifting the camera slowly, slow pans/zooms
10:22.27brlcads/of/or/
10:22.32Z80-BoyPeralta uses tons of stills
10:22.38Z80-Boybecause he simply didn't have the material
10:22.49Z80-BoyAnd it lookss amazingly earthshattering
10:24.29brlcadheh, peralta used the ken burns effect
10:24.37Z80-BoyOh Ken Burns is slowly panning or zooming
10:24.42Z80-BoyNo Peralta effect is something else
10:25.11Z80-BoyIt's turning the pictures around, shaking them, zooming, panning, blending, inverting colours wildly :)
10:25.42Z80-BoyPeralta is a director *AND* a world class skater. He knows how to make things kick ass ;-)
10:25.49brlcadI'd be surprised if he was the first to do that :)
10:26.27brlcadat least there's no ref to it as a discernable style other than references I found that he uses ken burns a lot
10:26.39brlcadat least in some of his films
10:27.42Z80-BoyI realized we're basically punks
10:28.13Z80-BoyLike Iggy Pop is a punk in music, The Z-Boys were punks in skateboarding, I and lots of other free software authors are punks in computers
10:29.19Z80-BoyWhen BRL-CAD came out as free software, wanting it or not, it became a punk.;
10:29.43brlcadit's always been free (as in beer)
10:29.56Z80-BoyIsn't it something like if the US Army in 1969 suddenly said "screw killing people" and all flied from Vietnam to Woodstock
10:29.59brlcadand mostly-free (as in rights)
10:30.47brlcadbasically just registration, but then you could do almost anything except redistribute including get source code
10:31.16Z80-BoyThat's however still not free software
10:31.28Z80-BoyNow it's free software since 2004
10:31.31brlcadit's not FOSS per OSI definition
10:31.58brlcad"free software" is just too generic/vague by itself
10:32.10Z80-Boyfree software is defined by the Free Software Foundation
10:32.48Z80-Boyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software
10:33.00Z80-BoyWhat I like on the GPL is that it's the "Locals only" culture
10:33.05brlcadthat would be "Free software"
10:33.14brlcadwhere I at least think the case really matters
10:33.54brlcadas the intent is to make it a proper noun
10:34.15brlcadotherwise, free is as free is defined by the dictionaries and can mean several things
10:34.22curiouscyberpunk...
10:34.33Z80-Boyomg curious is also here?
10:34.57brlcadhe's been here for quite a while
10:35.17Z80-Boyhe talks often about diseases or biology
10:37.47brlcadsince November apparently
10:37.50Z80-BoyHere is "Why "Open Source" misses the point of Free Software" http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html
10:38.02brlcadyeah yeah
10:38.05brlcadRMS's lil rant
10:38.25Z80-Boyhow do you view this FS vs. OS matter?
10:38.45brlcadhe's got his reasons and there's counter positions to all of them like most issues that are mostly religion
10:39.35Z80-Boy"Open source is a development methodology; free software is a social movement."
10:39.40Z80-BoyThat's what I like
10:40.05Z80-BoyOn the other way "
10:40.08Z80-BoyFor the free software movement, free software is an ethical imperative, because only free software respects the users' freedom."
10:40.36Z80-BoyI wrote to Stallman what he thinks about Ronja and he said free hardware is not an ethical imperative because you can run software for free whereas for making hardware you have to pay money
10:41.00brlcadat least he wants it to be a social movement, a matter of ethics and morality, where in practice most of the industry sees him as a crackpot zealot that does more to hurt that same movement than he does to help
10:41.16Z80-BoyWhich I don't agree because you still have to pay a PC if you want to run software, and the cost of material in free hardware is often laughable.
10:42.02Z80-BoyI don't matter if he's a crackpot zealot, but I think he should visit a visagist and buy a yearly card for a gym.
10:42.06brlcadthe industry is still predominantly driven by the openness of the software more than it is by our "rights and freedoms" .. most simply don't care
10:42.26Z80-Boycompanies couldn't care less about rights and freedoms of course
10:42.38Z80-BoyThey care about the cost reduction
10:43.08Z80-BoyAnd when they even stop caring about the copyright, Harald Welte from gplviolations.org reminds them friendly through a court verdict ;>
10:43.08curiousopen patents and open hardware is what i encourage too, though from my perspective it's mainly to prevent forming of corporations and monopolies
10:43.13brlcadcompanies are snowballing the industry's accelleration but they're not the driver
10:43.26Z80-Boywho's the driver?
10:43.51curiousm0 parasite ;)
10:44.25brlcada couple thousand of the project leads across the FOSS industry, actual people, developers
10:44.36brlcadthat are almost entirely driven by the sheer love of coding
10:44.58Z80-BoyZ-Boys claimed to be entirely driven by the sheer love of skateboarding
10:45.14Z80-BoyAnd when they switched to the sheer love of many, they went down a very steep ramp ;-)
10:45.23brlcadthere were more than 200 of the top project leads for just about every major open source project at the mentor summit this past summer
10:45.35Z80-Boymany -> money
10:45.47Z80-Boybrlcad: what does a "project lead" mean?
10:46.13curiousbtw , #philosophy ;) chat went bit offtopic...
10:46.24brlcadit was noted by several of us during the conference that we had by *far* the most concentrated gather of open source leads probably ever (considerably more than OSCon) simply by the nature of the program
10:46.30Z80-Boyno it's on topic since BRL-CAD is free software
10:46.32brlcads/gather/gathering/
10:47.10Z80-Boybrlcad: who "we"? BRL-CAD? And what's an "open source lead"?
10:47.41brlcadmeans people that are principle contributors with the influence, control, authority, merit, heritage, history, respect, whatever to lead the project
10:48.11brlcadwe is not BRL-CAD .. we was representatives from those funded by Google for the Google Summer of Code
10:48.25brlcadmany major projects
10:49.09Z80-Boy"simply by the nature of the program" -> which one then when you were developers of many different programs?
10:50.08brlcadhttp://code.google.com/soc/2007/
10:51.09brlcadthose orgs, the likes of debian, gentoo, freebsd, linux kernel, kde, gnome, apache foundation, python foundation, gcc folks, on and on
10:52.15Z80-BoyI once looked at the SoC and found it heavily underpaid
10:52.20brlcadwe had a mentor summit where the project leads for those organizations all got together to talk about the program, share our experiences, many discussions and presentations, exchanging ideas, thoughts, philosophies ..
10:53.07brlcadit's not meant as a get rich scheme, it's meant to let kids in school that would rather just write code all summer and still pay their bills do so
10:53.29brlcadwhich is more than enough, as the rejection ratio is already nearly 5:1 iirc
10:53.54Z80-Boywho rejects? Google or the coders?
10:54.16brlcadboth in a way
10:54.26Z80-BoyI rejected it because of underpaying :)
10:54.29brlcadthere are only so many student slots, so they compete
10:55.00brlcadstudents are ranked on their abilities and project proposals
10:55.17brlcadit's a rather long and involved process, takes a lot of time
10:55.41Z80-BoyI found out people with zero abilities are indispensable
10:56.37Z80-BoyLike if I show my Ronja instructions to someone who has good abilities then he doesn't find anything
10:56.51brlcadgood for you ... *blink* .. but if their job is to be coding all summer, zero abilities would be useless
10:56.53Z80-BoyIf I show it to a guy who has no clue about it he finds 50 places with missing or ambiguous information
10:57.20Z80-BoyHe's vastly mor productive for this task than the guy with abilities, because his abilities cannot bridge the gaps he's looking for.
10:57.24brlcadeh, that's entirely a different domain
10:57.32brlcadproductive to you for weeding out trivialities
10:57.36Z80-BoyNo that's a part of free software
10:57.43brlcadask him to optimize your circuit board and you get a blank stare
10:57.54Z80-BoyA product without manual is useless and you need someone like this to check the manuals
10:58.11brlcadagain, you're talking about an entirely different f'ing domain
10:58.16brlcadit's the summer of *code*
10:58.24brlcadnot checking manuals and looking for typos
10:58.34brlcadthe program has a specific focus
10:58.37Z80-BoyBut I don't need anyone to code I need someone to weed crap out of the manuals
10:58.49brlcadyou need a janitor, great
10:59.06Z80-BoyI don't like this division of people into "able"
10:59.10Z80-Boyand "unable"
10:59.19Z80-BoyEveryone can do something different.
10:59.21brlcadthat's also pretty much a possessive position
11:00.05brlcadi'm sorry, but that's just wrong with the domain is limited
11:00.15brlcadif it's not limited, then sure .. there's a job for everyone
11:00.16Z80-BoyThe ordinary people who have barely a clue how to solder two wires together contributed so many helpful ideas...
11:00.17brlcadthat's nothing new
11:01.09Z80-BoyWhat's a perfectly coded program good for when the user has no idea how to use it?
11:01.30brlcadare you just not getting it or just talking past me without listening?
11:01.41Z80-BoyIf I use a program it's typically 1/2 day reading the manuals and experimenting and 5 minutes CPU time
11:01.50brlcadi'm not arguing that people can contribute in various ways
11:01.52brlcadsure they can
11:02.02brlcadthat's not freaking rocket science
11:02.05brlcadpeople can be creative
11:02.11brlcadand useful, in many ways
11:02.15brlcadthat's not the point
11:03.29brlcadthis started about finding people that were "able to code" because it's a program about actually writing code, not reviewing code, not helping out, not working on docs, just writing code -- for that purpose, there are outright some people that are able and are not able to write code
11:03.51brlcadnot about whether people were able to do *something* useful
11:04.11brlcadthey could do that anyways, it is open source afterall .. if they want to contribute, they can go for it
11:04.12Z80-BoyHmm I consider reviewing code and working of docs part of writing the code
11:04.26Z80-Boypushing buttons is only one method how to get the code you need
11:04.35brlcadbut if they're going to get *hired* to write code .. there is a damn firm expectation that they can/will write code
11:04.43Z80-BoyAnother one is take an existing one that does something wrong and fixing it
11:05.11Z80-BoyAnd if I don't write documentation at the same moment as the code I am begging the God for an inconsitency
11:05.35Z80-BoyMost people on free software projects cannot write code
11:05.38brlcadwell you may consider it part of it, but I certainly wouldn't .. it's certainly part of working on a project and developing a product .. but then it sounds like you maybe just want to argue your semantics
11:05.48Z80-BoyThey think bullshits like "the code is the documentation" which can be easily disproved.
11:06.10Z80-BoyThey leave bugs in code intentionally...
11:06.35Z80-BoyIt's like a difference between painter for pictures and painter for room walls
11:06.40curiouslot of opensource projects are so far (imho) quick sketches of what project should look like. i.e. mozilla ...
11:07.05Z80-Boyyes Firefox segfaults and hangs for me and bugs in the bugzilla have numbers like 200,000
11:07.21Z80-BoyAt least BRL-CAD knows how to write code
11:07.25Z80-BoyWhen I report a bug they fix it
11:07.35Z80-BoyNot just piling up shit...
11:07.53Z80-BoyI reported a segfault on BBC Dirac a year ago and it still wasn't even assigned
11:08.05Z80-BoyAnd Dirac is developed fulltime by a major company!
11:08.07curiousenthusiasm and demand of users is usually what causes trouble , too much pressure to suceed while there is still just loose sketch
11:08.08brlcadand lots of people like to armchair philosophize and argue about what is right/wrong without actually contributing constructively :)
11:08.12brlcadso fix it yourself?
11:08.27brlcadusually just time and competing priorities
11:08.28Z80-Boybrlcad: you mean me? With Ronja and Links?
11:08.35brlcadno, I mean in general
11:08.44brlcadI've seen it on every project I've ever worked on/with
11:09.11brlcadyou've had some good constructive contributions
11:09.17Z80-BoyIf you're a good developer and you have a lack of time you create a well working program with small amount of features
11:09.18brlcadseveral as a matter of fact
11:09.48Z80-BoyIf you are a bad one, you create a bloated project with tons of bugs which is practicably unusable, but has a lot of features in it's spec.
11:10.17Z80-BoyOh these details count as contributions? :)
11:11.01brlcadthe movie is marketing material, the bug reports get attention and discussion, and are queued/recorded and/or fixed
11:11.44brlcadif anything, you're a productive and interactive/responsive user, and that's a contribution no matter how you cut it
11:11.56brlcaddoesn't have to be code
11:13.16brlcadthat said, coders is what we're most in shortage of because we haven't yet gained enough momentum and usability
11:13.21alex_jonireports of people using projects are a great help to any oss imo
11:13.42brlcadwe're in one of the biggest software domains, bigger than the gaming industry for crissakes
11:14.02alex_jonifirst it shows others that it's useable, what can be done with it, and second it gives devs the needed momentum to keep going
11:14.06brlcadyet our active devs are but a handful
11:14.17brlcadmultibillion dollar industry
11:14.20alex_jonibrlcad: and still.. you're a big project.. compared to the one I work on
11:14.56brlcadi mean one of our main competitors (in theory at least) is unigraphics, where they have more than 100 developers working on their code daily
11:15.53brlcadalex_joni: the momentum is in attracting new devs (and users, but devs most importantly)
11:16.25Z80-Boybrlcad: do you agree that BRL-CAD is lacking important features compared to Autocad, Pro-E and whatever modern modeling programs?
11:16.53brlcadblender picked up the momentum about five years ago in just under two years after going open source, for example .. not exactly the same domain, but similar skill sets needed, but then they already had usability
11:17.11brlcadZ80-Boy: sure, I don't think anyone would argue that
11:17.42brlcadwe excel in several areas, but to compete in the holistic CAD domain, you have to cater to many many different usage patterns and problem domains
11:18.01brlcadthe industry diagram on the main website gives an idea of those domains/uses
11:19.11brlcadour path forward is pretty clear (to me at least), but there's a lot of work before the momentum will start to accelerate attention
11:19.38Z80-Boybrlcad: on the other hand, a project like Ronja shows that with and oldschool approach (doing the blueprints separately), one can use BRL-CAD for serious work.
11:19.59Z80-Boybrlcad: I wrote you something on query did you see it?
11:20.33brlcadneeded for that is a unification of all our command-line tools, clean-up of our geometry processing engine, the addition of comprehensive BREP support, and a redesigned graphical user interface that leverages all our functionality intuitively
11:20.53brlcadZ80-Boy: BRL-CAD *IS* used for serious work, and has been for decades ....
11:21.03brlcaddoesn't get much more serious
11:21.34curiousZ80-Boy, sometimes for development of project user base is important. links can be good example, note that i.e. mobile phone /pda industry didn't noticed potential of investiment in developing potent multiplatform code for web browser and invest in taking parts of mozilla foundation code instead
11:21.39Z80-Boybrlcad: but isn't it an internal army work that isn't visible to the outside?
11:21.51brlcadthe analysis domain is our strength by far, that is where we kick the snot out of most of the commercial packages
11:22.10Z80-Boycurious: but they at least get CSS Javascript Flash and Java and all that annoying crap
11:22.37Z80-Boycan you give an example of a project that uses BRL-CAD for analysis?
11:22.38curiousyes, and social impact of this will cause phones to overheat for next 20 years
11:22.43brlcadour ability to efficiently represent, visualize, and analyze geometric target descriptions is pretty much unparalleled
11:22.50Z80-BoyApart from Ronja where it's used to calculate the weight of the device and the components?
11:23.32curiousbtw. i also would like to see more examples of use on main website, manual is bit minimalistic
11:23.43Z80-Boycurious: Links cannot keep up the development pace with the tsunami of bloated crapware like AJAX etc.
11:24.09brlcadBRL-CAD main reason for being created, developed, and funded for so long is for analysis purposes
11:24.15curiousZ80-Boy, ...because noone invested in it :) as opensource project it could be developed by completely separate team
11:24.31Z80-Boycurious: that's not true noone invested in it
11:24.55Z80-Boycurious: http://links.twibright.com/development.php
11:25.08Z80-BoyYou have a table of donations there :)
11:25.10brlcadit's used for performing ballistic penetration and material interaction analyses
11:25.21brlcadlike what happens when you shoot a rocket propelled grenade at a tank
11:25.34Z80-Boyyes but these projects are kept closed, right?
11:25.37brlcadvulnerability and lethality analyses
11:25.43brlcadof course
11:25.47Z80-BoyI haven't myself seen anything like that
11:25.54brlcadand you probably never will
11:25.56Z80-BoySo the public may and may not believe it
11:26.18Z80-BoyI'm not interested to know what happens if you throw a grenade at a tank
11:26.25Z80-BoyI don't have neither a grenade nor a tank
11:26.34brlcadit's well documented and published, just not something you get to play with directly
11:26.49curiouspersonally i would like to see few examples about developing electric motors
11:26.53Z80-BoyBut people need to see a plausible proof it's practically usable
11:27.17brlcadyou might be interested what happens if you were to get shot by a bullet, not really much different
11:27.35curiousi've read there is support for magnetic forces simulation, yet, didn't found even simplest examples
11:27.46Z80-BoyOtherwise they may think "maybe the picture is a fake made in a different program" or "armies are often inefficient maybe it took them too long"
11:28.06brlcadmaterial interactions, almost any interaction that has a nearly instant interaction/response (less than a second)
11:28.31Z80-Boywhat happens if my head hits a skatepark obstacle? :D
11:28.53brlcadyou may think that, but the people that fund the results certainly don't think so
11:29.12brlcadit's not like this hasn't been going on for decades
11:29.20brlcadlong before computers were used
11:30.13brlcadBRL-CAD was the first to make it even possible to visualize an entire tank on a computer (back in '84)
11:32.28brlcadsvn dumpfile now finished uploading to sf.net, importing (eta probably 2hrs)
11:35.49curiousbrlcad, and what about more hum. peace-oriented projects? design of dams , windmills, stuff like that? :) i know brl-cad has main funding source from military... but maybe there were projects more in such direction?
11:36.25brlcadlots
11:36.47brlcadhelped design one of the massive supercolliders in europe
11:37.13brlcadwas the only cad system that could represent the entire length down to millimeter resolution
11:37.48brlcadhubble telescope, buildings, radiological studies, ...
11:38.59curiousperhaps i'll sound bit like eco freak but i'm often grossed when i hear from investors that investiments like windmill research are 'not profitable because never earn for themselves'  and then i see them buying f16 for taxpayer's money ...(well, guess how theywill make it 'earn on itself ' ;)
11:39.32curiousgood to hear :)
11:45.41Z80-Boybrlcad: but can you link URLs where it's apparent how BRL-CAD was used for these projects?
11:46.28Z80-Boybrlcad: did you get my query?
11:48.25curiousZ80-Boy, btw. would you mind to record how you develop things in brl-cad ? in form of tutorial/example presentation... i am very newb. in this
11:48.52Z80-Boycurious: sorry, no time for that
11:56.27alex_jonibrlcad: shoot the ronja thingie with a grenade rocket.. we all can guess what happens, but it'll look cool
11:58.08Z80-BoyI think it may drop one packet
11:58.17Z80-Boyand then continue working unharmed
11:58.23Z80-BoyMaybe the paint peels off
11:58.52Z80-Boysomeone reported it working when the pipe was 1/2 full of water
11:59.02Z80-BoyWith the electronics massively corroded and full of disgusting slime
11:59.07Z80-BoyRonja is a very robust device :)
12:01.09alex_joniZ80-Boy: :P good to know
12:01.33alex_joniZ80-Boy: maybe you can sell Ronja's to the military for target practise purpose :P
14:01.38Z80-BoyOnce it got a nearby lightning hit and I had to replace a part for $1.00
14:03.13Z80-BoyBut there was a bug in the shielding which I fixed in the meantime
14:04.02Z80-BoyNot mentioning that every lightning storm we had several network card and switches burned out
14:04.28alex_joniI had ones burning out even without lightning :D
14:04.43Z80-BoyI am sure instead of the expensive thick cables
14:04.43Z80-Boythey could transmit the data from nuclear tests by Ronjas
14:05.25Z80-BoyThey would simply collect them scattered on the desert, wash and reuse :)
14:28.57Z80-BoyI got an idea for an undetectable detector of people's presence
14:29.41Z80-Boya microphone and two speakers
14:29.54Z80-Boythe speakers would be at one end of the controlled line and the microphone on the other
14:30.07Z80-Boythe speakers would be arranged symmetrically and phased oppositely
14:30.18Z80-Boyso that any signal going into them would cancel out at the place of microphone
14:30.35Z80-Boythe microphone would have a sensitive amplifier outputting into the speakers
14:31.05Z80-Boyif something physical got into the space, one of the speakers would be shadowed more, they would stop cancelling and the system would start to oscillate
14:31.34Z80-BoyNo electrical optical infrared or acoustical energy measurement would reveal existence of this device unless the alarm would be already triggered.
14:32.51Z80-BoyBecause in silent state the device would be silent
15:04.49*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@70.108.244.218)
15:06.53*** join/#brlcad vedge (i=vedge@vedge.org)
15:08.32alex_joniI don't think you can cancel out 2 sound waves
15:09.12alex_jonimaybe in a perfect environment (without walls and other refraction points..)
15:21.11``Erikhuh, rpg vs ronja? I wonder if it'd just vaporize the entire unit, or send it flying as a cone of sand... :)
15:22.12curiousit's not made in taiwan, sorry.
15:22.50Z80-Boynor in china ;-)
15:23.26``Erikheh, doens't matter where it's made, I'm sure it's using soft steel and not much of it compared to, say, heavy vehicle armor plating that rpg's are specifically designed to defeat :)
15:23.37Z80-BoyOne friend replaced the thin tin pipe (0.5mm) with a solid metal pipe like 5 or 6mm thick
15:24.16``Erikok, put a kg of c4 against a 5mm walled steel pipe and see how well it holds together.. :D
15:24.53Z80-Boyhttp://images.twibright.com/tns/lvl4/1e4a.jpg
15:25.02``Erik<-- puts his money on the explosives :)
15:25.05Z80-Boywhole gakllery page http://images.twibright.com/tns/1e45.html
15:25.28alex_joniZ80-Boy: that looks soft
15:25.33Z80-BoyMen, if the 3rd world war comes, he'll still have Internet
15:26.02``Erikwhat kinda steel?
15:26.08alex_joniwell.. maybe usually is not the best thing to say
15:26.10Z80-BoyOrdinary construction
15:26.24alex_joni``Erik: you familiar with EN namings?
15:26.26Z80-Boyalex_joni: you mean the gym?
15:26.34``Eriknot especially, but I have tables
15:26.48Z80-BoyI saw his Ronja it was heavy as hell
15:27.00Z80-BoyThe RPG would probably shatter the lens
15:27.10Z80-BoySo you'd have to invest $1.00 to fix the device
15:27.17alex_joniS235 .. S5xx
15:27.51alex_joni``Erik: mostly construction grade steel
15:27.54alex_joninothing fancy
15:27.55Z80-BoyBut look
15:28.06Z80-Boynoone will shoot rpgs at your communication device
15:28.23Z80-Boymore like you'll see one more sun, then you get a gust of wind where all the windows blow out
15:28.36alex_jonistill. it will be the first target
15:28.42``Erikif one goes off within a few meters, it'll probably rip apart the steel tube, shatter the lense, disintigrate the board, ... :)
15:29.06``Erikand that's a light precision weapon, something like a bomb (or ww3, mebbe a nuke)... :D
15:29.58Z80-Boythat's a damage worth of say 30$?
15:30.55``Erikyeah *shrug* but it's not gonna just drop one package and get a little water in it
15:31.04``Erik:)
15:31.17Z80-Boytry the RPG with your wireless access point
15:31.30``Eriksorry, I kinda like having a house :)
15:31.52Z80-BoyI don't believe it makes a mess like this
15:32.09``ErikI tend to avoid silly things like bullets and hand grenades, no way I wanna be in an anti-armor event, yo
15:32.55``Erikdude, an rpg is several kg of high explosives
15:33.26``ErikI mean, take a dozen sticks of dynamite and light it off on something
15:33.31``Erikit makes a big freakin' mess
15:34.29alex_jonithat means no windows for a 2-3 mile radius
15:34.29Z80-Boythat's bullshit
15:34.29Z80-BoyAt the place I live a dynamite factory blew up in 190?
15:34.38Z80-BoyIt shattered the windows only in 10km radius or so
15:34.55Z80-BoyI assume they have more than couple of dynamite sticks in a factory
15:35.23``Erikshockswaves roll off on a cubed root (surface area of a growing sphere, remember your high school physics for sound attenuation)
15:35.44Z80-Boynot cubed but 2nd root
15:35.44``Erikand a lot depends on environment (temperature, humidity, geometry, etc)
15:36.05Z80-Boysurface area of a growing sphere is r^2
15:36.40alex_joniThe PRG-7V1 can fire 4 - 6 rounds per minute, and can be equipped with PG-7V shaped charge, PG-7VR tandem shaped charge, both are designed to penetrate over 500 mm of steel (600 mm behind ERA in PG-7VR, which can also penetrate two meters of brickwork, 1.5 meters of reinforced concrete and 3.7 meters of log or sand).
15:37.24Z80-BoyDoesn't this have a depleted uranium rod?
15:37.28``Erikno
15:37.31Z80-Boyrha is what?
15:37.50Z80-BoyBut we were talkling about RPG not PRG
15:37.59``Erika standard armor type of steel, rolled homogeneous
15:38.11``Erik"rpg" is an old name for a shaped charge
15:38.20Z80-Boyrocket propelled grenade?
15:38.41``Erikthey're shaped charges, every since the paunserfaust
15:38.42Z80-BoyDoesn't shaped charge work only on the surface of the target?
15:38.42alex_jonihttp://www.defense-update.com/products/r/rpg-29.htm
15:38.57Z80-Boypanzerfaust
15:39.35alex_joniZ80-Boy: they also have time delays so they can explode in mid air
15:39.37``Erikyeah, panzerfaust, and the bazooka, and a couple other ww2 anti-tank handhelds
15:43.11Z80-BoyWell no matter how thick Ronja is it always needs a lens surface exposed outside
15:43.28Z80-BoyWhich is easily damaged by a weapon
15:43.33Z80-BoyAnd needs to be replaced then
15:44.02Z80-BoyHave you seen a guy making his own electron valves at home?
15:44.08``Erikyeah, in france
15:44.10``Erikneat stuff
15:44.10Z80-BoyI think this guy will surview WW3 too
15:44.19Z80-Boysurvive
15:44.34``Erikum, blowing glass ain't gonna help ya survive ww3, it'll help you survive AFTER ww3.... :D
15:46.41Z80-BoyAre there vehicles resistant to RPGs?
15:46.55``Erikthat all depends on what you mean by "resistant"
15:47.05``Erikand that's all I'm gonna say about that :D
15:47.09Z80-BoyApart from the Russian "Ukraina" bicycle?
16:06.12*** join/#brlcad jgay (n=jgay@fsf/staff/jgay)
16:38.38brlcadlooks like the import was successful, starting testing
17:58.43``Erikhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080109/od_nm/brothel_dc;_ylt=AkOfikAfGaTZ2oPrvqqBjwGs0NUE
18:46.49*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@S010600195bd5c415.lb.shawcable.net)
19:02.47brlcadheh
19:10.52IriX64coulda been worse, coulda been his mother :)
19:20.42brlcadso far so good on the checkout validation, it's gotten past all branches afaikt
19:20.46brlcadnow working on all tags
19:45.02poolioso, upgrade to git next week?
19:45.29``Erikgit is for gits
19:45.35``Erikwe're going to perforce, yo
19:45.40poolioah
19:45.41``Erikp4ftw!
19:45.48pooliohg!
19:52.36*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-82-187.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:07.13``Erikhummmmm
20:07.34poolio``Erik: Tell me if it's safe :)
20:07.51``Erikhow is this going to affect file permissions?
20:08.12``Erikthe adrt subdir had significan damage (many 755 .c and .h files)
20:08.45``Erikben, I'm waiting for brlcad to tell me it's safe, I'm just being optimistic ;)
20:14.41pooliohah
20:15.15poolioDo the permissions really matter in the source tree? As long as the install is correct it shouldn't really matter
20:15.55``Erikit's fugly when ya have alias ls='ls -FG'
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20:33.08illethalAxman!
20:33.18illethalBattletech?
20:35.35*** part/#brlcad illethal (n=oden@c-69-137-199-63.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
20:56.06brlcad``Erik: my full-checkout is still churning, it's not exactly speedy process
20:56.23brlcadi've been documenting the steps taken as well just for posterity
20:58.31brlcadsvn keeps track of the exec bit as an svn attribute
20:59.54brlcadthe cvs import set the svn attribute if the cvsroot file had the exec bit set, which I see now that you mention it that several libtie, libtienet, and a couple of the adrt docs had bad perms (meaning they were cvs added with wrong perms, but whatever)
21:00.39brlcadit's easy enough to fix that in svn after the fact, but adrt seems to be more the exception than the rule as I look through other places .. not even most of adrt was wrong
21:01.26brlcadit is nice, though, that all the scripts have the property set, I did validate those, archer, rtwizard, and a few others manually to make sure their perms were right
21:05.05brlcadprobably not worth the 8+ hour turn-around to fix those perms in the cvs repo and wait for all the conversions/uploads again just for those few files.. :)
21:23.33brlcadit's 17GB to checkout the root
21:23.33``Erikif it's fixable in svn, that's another minor win for snv over cvs
21:23.40brlcadit is
21:23.57brlcadi think we might be good to go, lemme just make sure the commit hooks are set up
21:23.58``Erikit's tricky to fix in cvs
21:24.20brlcadit'll be svn propdel svn:executable file.c
21:24.30brlcadsvn proplist to see the props on a file
21:24.55brlcadproperties are tracked just like source changes
21:25.57brlcadthat's how you can set the line ending types (CR/NL, NL, native, etc), whether it's a binary file or not (default is binary, but I set auto-props on defined file types)
21:26.13brlcadand the exec bit
21:26.22``Erikcoo'
21:26.38brlcadthose three and setting svn:ignore on directories (the equiv of .cvsignore) are the most common usages of props
21:27.37brlcadfor info: http://my.brlcad.org/wiki/Cvs2svn
21:33.01poolioHeh, exactly one commit with non-ascii. Beat 'em down.
21:39.15brlcadheh
21:39.25brlcadi actually did that commit :)
21:39.47brlcadknew exactly what it was when I saw the log message
21:40.10CIA-30ow
21:42.32brlcadahh, we're getting announced as the wrong project
21:45.13CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29889 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: cia test commit, note that I just converted source repository from CVS to Subversion
21:45.17brlcadthere we go
21:46.09brlcad``Erik: barring any problems that you find or that crop up on our ohloh import, I think we might be good to go now
21:46.58yukonbobnice...
21:47.00brlcadcvs2svn apparently got confused a little on the props with both a mime.types file, auto-props files, and props from mime setting enabled, but those are easily fixed
21:53.41Axman6brlcad: well done :)
21:56.19brlcadnot necessarily done yet
21:56.32brlcadstill a lot more validation to go, and I'm seeing issues
21:57.53yukonbobbrlcad: are you saying to stay away from the svn repo for now, and I guess when it's deemed ready, you'll post a mgs here, or somewhere?
22:01.13brlcadi'm saying don't assume it won't get replaced yet another time if a show-stopper is found in the next couple days :)
22:02.10brlcadthe mime.types file messed up a lot of things it seems (like our tcl files) since apache's mime type for .tcl files is application/x-tcl for example .. which makes svn think it's a binary file
22:02.25brlcadI can fix that easily enough, but I can't diff through the history with it like that
22:02.37brlcadthat might be a show-stopper
22:03.44brlcadmight have to create a custom mime.types so that we get the settings we want in the repo as opposed to what apache might want to present
22:26.32brlcadi'm not finding a good solution.. I think we'll have to have yet another go-round
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22:52.16yukonbobbrlcad: not clear about the mime issue -- I see what problem it presents, and think I understand how it works (as an svn property) -- so what's the 'diff through the history' issue?  Is it feasible to get a script w/ svn bindings to go through the tree, present possible issues (ie: list all .tcl files), and optionally/conditionally adjust properties?
23:18.26brlcadyukonbob: I can set the property from then on and get diffs afaikt, but then if I say "diff r123 to r12" where it was unmarked as binary after r100 then it'll fail
23:18.45yukonbobugh
23:19.01brlcadi'm running it through again without the mime.types file from apache
23:19.27brlcadand with extra mime types set for our predominant file types
23:21.31brlcadmight make the default text instead of binary too if I add a mapping for all of our file types
23:42.41brlcadheh, there are 255 extensions in use
23:43.11yukonbobbrlcad: in the BRL-CAD source tree?
23:44.02brlcadwell, in the whole cvsroot, but yeah, that's 99.9% brl-cad sources
23:44.46brlcadhttp://bzflag.bz/~sean/extensions.used
23:45.07yukonbobright -- I guess you're counting the 0.1% as the libs, tcl, etc that are 3rd party, supplied for completeness' sake
23:46.19brlcadat least it's tangible
23:46.47brlcadi can make sure there are reasonable mime-types for any that aren't already listed
23:46.59yukonbobmost of those are of 'text' format, though -- so can one get away w/ setting default as text (like you mentioned) and only tagging .jpg, .doc, etc for now
23:47.18yukonbobs/tagging/tagging for attributes/
23:47.27brlcadyeah, something like that
23:48.20yukonbobnice... and nice to run into a problem, know what the answer is, and solve it ;) -- must seem tedious to you at this point, but at least you're making headway :)
23:49.40brlcadmime types have always been a nit-pick annoyance i've had with svn
23:49.49brlcadit's good to finally get right, but it's such a pita
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080111

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080111

00:30.58brlcadwell that was tedious.. but reviewed and accounted for (or am intentionally now ignoring) all 255
00:31.20brlcadthere were actually a couple important ones to catch so so not a complete waste of time :)
00:46.02Axman6brlcad: any leopard fixes yet?
00:51.24brlcadno not yet :)
00:51.36Axman6dang
00:51.48Axman6what were the problems again?
00:51.52brlcada bit busy with this little matter of a repository conversion :)
00:52.21Axman6brlcad: yeah that's fair enough
00:52.28brlcadAxman6: the problems are actually bugs in the Xorg X11 server
00:52.44brlcada compile on your system worked just fine remotely
00:52.52Axman6hopefully 10.5.2 will fix them
00:53.15brlcadprobably will, it's been a known problem that's been discussed on the apple mailing lists several times now
00:53.17yukonboboops -- got cats in wrong order... :P
00:53.42brlcadthere is an early install that you can try out that should be the same as what apple will eventually deploy when it's ready
00:54.08Axman6yeah i have it
00:54.12louipcapple is switching to Xorg eh?
00:54.27Axman6no
00:54.49Axman6just their X11.app is now Xorg based, not Xfree86 based
00:55.07louipcah
00:55.21Axman6X11 is a terrible system imo, i've very, very glad apple don't use it.
00:55.26Axman6one of the best things about OS X
00:55.29louipchehe
00:55.37louipcit works alright for me
00:56.44brlcadAxman6: you have the download from: http://trac.macosforge.org/projects/xquartz ?
00:56.51Axman6yeah
00:57.02Axman6that's what i did most of my testing with too
00:57.07Axman6i've had it for ages
00:57.41brlcadthey have continual updates .. last was mid dec
00:58.44brlcadI'd actually suggest filing a bug report with them in case we provoke some unique situation
00:59.07brlcadhttp://trac.macosforge.org/projects/xquartz/report
00:59.39brlcadkinda telling when you drop in the 10.4 X11 and it works
01:00.41Axman6the last release came out in early december, and that's the one i have. i'll have another play, see if anything's changed for whatever reason
01:05.36Axman6so brlcad, if you could use a comp's GPU for ray tracing, like the programmable ones, would that be of much benefit?
01:05.52Axman6like what they're doing for folding@home
01:13.29louipcfolding@home uses gpu?
01:13.35Axman6it can
01:13.43louipcdang cool
01:13.48Axman6they have an alpha or something for it
01:13.59Axman6it's supposed to be extremely fast
01:14.19louipcI thought most gpu specs are closed
01:14.37louipcwell ati just opened it
01:16.12Axman6it's got nothing to do with drivers afaik.
01:16.27Axman6a lot of modern GPU's are programmable
01:18.00louipcoh.. I figured if you knew the gpu instructions and all that then it would be no problem writing drivers for it :/, so it's some separate function eh?
01:19.09Axman6yeah
01:20.49brlcadAxman6: yeah, it can be beneficial
01:21.10Axman6are GPU's good at the kind of work brl-cad does?
01:21.31brlcadI've been watching and reading the research on gpu processing for over 5 years
01:21.39brlcadin general, no not really
01:21.55Axman6could it be?
01:21.57brlcadyou can make a customized ray-tracer that really takes advantage, but it's overly complicated
01:22.01brlcadin a serious way
01:22.14brlcadand the interface you write to is a very fast moving target
01:22.19brlcadchanging every couple years
01:22.25Axman6yeah :\
01:22.27louipchm
01:23.02brlcadit's already changed about three times over, so even if you get something working great today, there's really no telling if it's all wasted effort three years down the road
01:24.12brlcadyou also have to either cut back to floating-point tolerance models too or take a fairly substantial performance hit
01:24.57brlcadand the code, if that wasn't clear.. is a royal custom pita to develop -- things like the gpgpu project have been making that aspect a whole lot better but you still have to write code that jumps through all sorts of hoops
01:27.05brlcadat which point I ask what the goal is ..
01:27.56Axman6what about supporting the PS3? :P
01:28.05brlcadhuh?
01:28.07brlcadwhat about it?
01:28.27brlcadyou mean running on the cell processor?
01:28.38Axman6well, the cell is pretty powerful... but not exactly an ideal platform for brl-cad
01:29.04brlcadit's pretty nice, but the price point simply isn't there (yet)
01:29.23brlcadfor the same money, one can just buy more cores and quickly out-perform it
01:29.37louipcthere's all kind of weird research that seems to have no point, you never know where it could lead :P
01:29.41brlcadthen before too long, your bottlenecks are elsewhere (I/O, bandwidth, etc)
01:30.42brlcadit all has a point, it's research :)
01:30.43Axman6i know where my bottleneck is, it's definitely I/O :(
01:30.48Axman6i need a faster drive
01:31.53brlcadand generally research that was developed/investigated/implemented with specific intentions in mind .. a lot of research is great on paper, but horrible once put to practicalities and maintainability, others are glory moments ..
01:32.06brlcadthat's the great part about siggraph, you get it all, and get the trends year over year
01:32.42brlcadgpgpu is still accellerating, and at some point it'll really start to settle as a bonefide generic vector coprocessor
01:32.58brlcadthat's where it's all leading, along with massive cpu+gpu convergence
01:34.05brlcadthere are places in librt today that could directly benefit from vector processing -- early evaluation of the csg expressions for every primary ray, for example
01:34.29brlcadI'd bet that would give a solid order improvement on our large models
01:34.48brlcadvector evaluation of the primitives is another, but that's a data management beast
02:18.04brlcadstill processing
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02:29.35aaronkrameris brlcad available for intel macs?
02:31.19Axman6it is, but things are a little broken in leopard
02:31.34aaronkrameri don't have leopard I have tiger
02:31.59aaronkrameris there a walkthrough for compiling it in tiger
02:32.02yukonbobwhere "things are a little broken in leopard" is apparently leopards X11 implementation...
02:32.05Axman6works fine then. you might have to compile it yourself though
02:32.30brlcadthe binaries on the site work with tiger
02:32.45brlcador you should get a good compile with pretty much default compilation options
02:32.50aaronkramerI tried it is says that the display var is undefined or something like that
02:32.57Axman6aaronkramer:download the source, open it, cd into it, ./configure --enable-optimized $$ make -j2 && sudo make install
02:33.00Axman6that should do it
02:33.00brlcadrun X11 first
02:33.10brlcadthat's not a problem with the build
02:33.15brlcadthat's just knowing how X11 works
02:33.23aaronkramerI have programs that work in X11
02:33.46Axman6aaronkramer: you need to add 'export DISPLAY=0.0' to your .profile i think
02:33.59brlcador .bash_profile
02:34.04aaronkramerhow would I do that
02:34.04Axman6there's no need for that in leopard, thankfully
02:34.13brlcadif you run from xterm instead of Terminal, then you don't need to set anything
02:34.24aaronkramerok
02:34.25brlcadxterm sets it up automatically
02:34.26Axman6that too
02:35.25aaronkramerdo I use xterm commands the same way I use terminal commands
02:35.27aaronkramerlike cd
02:35.29aaronkramerand sudo
02:35.33brlcadotherwise, if X11 is already running, you can also just prepend "DISPLAY=:0" to any X11 command and it should work in Terminal too (or add it to your init files)
02:35.33Axman6aaronkramer: if you want to use terminal.app, add 'export DISPLAY=:0.0' to your ~/.profile
02:35.46Axman6aaronkramer: it's all using bash, so yes
02:35.46brlcadaaronkramer: yes, they're both just unix command lines
02:36.02brlcadjust the one in xterm initializes slightly differently
02:36.09aaronkramerokay
02:36.13Axman6and uses X11
02:36.36aaronkramerso if I compile using xterm will I only be able to launch via xterm in the future
02:36.45Axman6no
02:37.05Axman6the terminal app you use has nothing to do with how it builds
02:37.22brlcadAxman6: default account template on Macs have a .bash_profile, so editing .profile won't work
02:37.36brlcadbash searches in order and uses the first one it finds
02:37.42Axman6brlcad: yeah, i usually advise using .bash_profile
02:38.03brlcadat least depends on the version of OS X.. later versions stopped defaulting a .bash_profile
02:38.12brlcadso depends whether they've upgraded or clean-installed
02:38.36brlcadaaronkramer: did that work for you?
02:38.51aaronkramerjust a sec
02:40.41aaronkramerI do
02:40.41aaronkramerconfigure --enable-optimized $$ make -j2 &&
02:40.51aaronkramerand all it does is give me a little arrow
02:41.08aaronkramerwhat should I type there
02:41.12Axman6uh, my bad
02:41.16brlcadyou're missing the rest of the line
02:41.17Axman6replace the $$ with &&
02:41.25brlcad(too)
02:41.41aaronkramerokay
02:41.51brlcad./configure --enable-optimized --without-opengl --enable-all && make -j2
02:41.54Axman6&& tells the shell to run what comes after it, if the bit before it exits cleanly
02:42.06brlcadthen run: sudo make install    and it'll install into /usr/brlcad
02:42.08Axman6so if configure fails, it won't try making it
02:42.43brlcadtype /usr/brlcad/bin/mged into the xterm window, and it should pop up the mged gui (two windows)
02:43.19aaronkramerokay it seems to be configuring it
02:43.24brlcadyou can/should read the README and INSTALL files if you get stuck .. they go into more extensive detail
02:43.33brlcaddid you add the --without-opengl option?
02:43.37aaronkrameryea
02:43.40brlcadk
02:44.02aaronkramercan i delete the source files after I have installed it
02:44.08brlcadsure
02:44.15aaronkramerokay
02:44.36louipckeep the Makefile maybe
02:44.36brlcadyou can also run /usr/brlcad/bin/benchmark after it installs and it'll run a performance profile of your hardware
02:44.50louipcin case you want to make uninstall :P
02:44.54aaronkramerokay
02:45.15brlcadnah, brl-cad installs fully contained .. uninstall is trivial:  sudo rm -rf /usr/brlcad
02:45.29aaronkrameris the xterm better for compiling programs that use x11
02:45.38brlcadno difference
02:45.56aaronkramerbecause I have been trying for so long to get xaralx to work
02:46.02Axman6aaronkramer: they're just different gui's for the same thing really
02:46.05brlcadthe only real difference is that the xterm has DISPLAY set since it's tied to the X11 server
02:46.08aaronkrameroh
02:46.19louipcoh yeah, depends on how you install it
02:47.07aaronkramerhow long does it usually take to configure?
02:47.39Axman61-2 mins
02:47.57aaronkramerdoes it jump right into the make and install if it is succsessful
02:48.13louipcbetter haha?
02:48.33louipcno you have to tell it to make install after configure is finished
02:48.45aaronkramerhmm
02:48.55louipci think configure might take 10min for me
02:49.00louipcbut my computer is slow
02:49.17aaronkramermine isn't it is an imac one of the new ones
02:49.23aaronkramerand it is taking awhile
02:49.31Axman6takes 1:45ish on my MBP 2.4GHz
02:49.37louipclots of things to check :P
02:49.46aaronkramerreally?
02:49.57Axman6that's 1min 45 sec
02:50.00aaronkramerit has gone on longer than that
02:50.10Axman6the initial one often does
02:50.16aaronkrameroh
02:50.45aaronkramerso what do you guys think of brl cad
02:51.01aaronkrameris it better than the commercial stuff
02:52.51louipcnope
02:53.23louipcbut most of the commercial stuff only runs on windows so... maybe yes!
02:53.30aaronkramerheh
02:53.32louipcin terms of features though... nope
02:53.42aaronkramerI heard there were chemical libraries
02:53.59aaronkramerwhere you could actually define a components chemical composition
02:54.11aaronkrameris this for real?
02:54.43louipcin brlcad? I don't know
02:54.51louipcor BRL-CAD I mean
02:56.36aaronkramershould I run make benchmark or make install
02:56.55Axman6sudo make install, then make benchmark
02:57.02Axman6just to see how fast it is
02:57.29louipc1M times faster than reference machine? heh
02:58.05aaronkramerit took 13:18 to configure
02:58.54louipcnice
03:00.44aaronkramershould I exit the other programs befor I run the benchmark program
03:01.22louipcmaybe if something is really using up cpu
03:01.30aaronkramernot really
03:01.34aaronkramereh
03:01.39aaronkramerI won't bother
03:03.11Axman6it's not something that important, just gives you an idea of how fast your machine is
03:04.40louipci've only done it once I think
03:08.40aaronkramerhow do I launch BRL-CAD again
03:08.44aaronkrameris it mged?
03:10.19louipcyeah
03:10.38aaronkramerits not working
03:11.22louipcah right you might need to set your path
03:11.30aaronkramernever mind it works
03:11.35louipcto /usr/brlcad/bin
03:11.38louipcok
03:11.55aaronkramerhow do I do that
03:12.25louipcPATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin
03:12.51louipcit's probably a good idea to use .profile or /etc/profile ....
03:13.03louipcbut I'm not so familiar with the mac environment
03:13.09louipcso it might be different
03:13.17aaronkramerI am not sure I understand
03:13.54louipcwhen you type a command into the shell, it looks in a variable called PATH for directories that contain programs
03:14.11aaronkramerbut what does it mean that no database has been opened
03:14.29louipcit means you haven't opened a brlcad model
03:15.51aaronkramerokay
03:15.57aaronkramerI understand now
03:16.11louipcopendb <file> will do it for you
03:16.21louipcthat's how you start a new file as well
03:16.55aaronkramerthanks
03:16.59louipcor you can open directly from the command line by just `mged <file>`
03:17.30aaronkramerI am off bed now
03:17.36aaronkramersee you later and thanks
03:17.40louipcbye
04:39.39brlcadlouipc: 1M times? .. there's only a handful of machines on the planet that are in the "M"-times-faster-than-reference-machine range
04:41.14louipcyes I exaggerated
04:42.50brlcadthe new high-performance computer that was dedicated to Mike Muuss at ARL's HPC center is presently ranked #27 on the planet and I was able to get an estimate of about 7M VGRs performance iirc
04:43.57louipcwhat do you use that one for?
04:44.24brlcadwhy emacs of course ;)
04:44.32louipchehehe
04:45.48brlcad7M VGRs is freaking impressive .. to think when Mike started BRL-CAD .. the VGR references *was* a supercomputer and it came in at .. 1 .. 25 years later, 7 million times faster
04:46.55brlcadat that rate, you could render some of the original brl-cad renderings that took an entire week to process in about a minute
04:47.01brlcads/renderings/animations/
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14:15.35``Erikvax's were minis, not supers :(
14:15.59``Erikbut they were omfg powerful compared to the PC's that came out many yrs later
14:18.06``Erikhum, appleII and commodore PET were released the same year as the vax 11/780, BSD was released that year, arcnet was developed, xmodem was developed...
14:19.17``Erikcray-1 was about he same time
14:20.12``Erikor, rather, the first cray-1 install was the same time
14:23.14``Erikso, another re-import O.o
14:58.54Z80-BoyIs it true that if a foreigner comes to a US airport they always take a fingerprint from him?
14:59.25alex_joniyup
14:59.50Z80-BoyIs it possible to fly to Mexico and then go to the US with a car?
14:59.56Z80-BoyOr a train or whatever?
15:00.07Z80-BoyThey don't take fingerprints on the borders?
15:00.36Z80-BoyWhat privacy risks does this fingerprinting imply?
15:04.28alex_jonithey fidn you when you do something stupid?
15:07.26prasad_they get u on fake charges and send u to guantanemo bay with the blessing of the foreign govt
15:08.57prasad_wait that's harold and kumar 2
15:08.58prasad_:P
15:13.11Z80-Boyprasad_: that's what I was concerned about
15:13.35Z80-BoyIs it possible to fly to Mexico, then go on land?
15:19.30prasad_*shrug*
15:24.06``Erikprobably be easier to bump through canada... *cough*
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15:34.12Defconhi all
15:34.14DefconDeclan: I dunno...I love her, but this new years is going to be uber depressing
15:34.14Defcongrencez: her friends are much lamer than both of you combined
15:34.15DefconDeclan: The thought of her getting high at a party where everyone is drunk while I sit at home and code Perl or something is kind of too much to bear
15:34.18DefconCyanFlux: maybe try coding something in c
15:34.34``Erikheh, paste the qdb url, not the whole damn entry, dude :D
15:36.58brlcad``Erik: give the checkout another try, see if things look better
15:37.16``Erikhum, do I have to purge and re-co, or do ya think I can up?
15:37.55brlcadno idea
15:38.48brlcadprobably could up, should work if it's smart
15:38.48``Erikand what'm I looking for, permissions in tie stuff?
15:38.49brlcadspecially since it does the md5 thing on the root files you have stored locally
15:38.49brlcadwhatever you can find
15:38.49brlcadanything wrong
15:38.53brlcador different
15:39.20``Erikhum, permissions in libtie are still gooby
15:39.38``Erikthat was the only thing I'd noticed from playing yesterday...
15:39.42``Eriklemme blow it away and retry
15:44.27Defcon(@Dreki) I just realized something.
15:44.28Defcon(@Dreki) A is the 1st letter of the alphabet and H is the 8th letter, right?
15:44.28Defcon(@Dreki) 9/11=0.8181818181=HAHAHAHA.
15:44.30Defconohw
15:44.37Defconsorry ``Erik
15:44.41Defcon:)
15:58.23``Erikbrlcad: what do you think about joining Ed and myself for lunch at olive shack?
15:58.36``Erikalso; perms in libtie look good now
15:59.38``Eriksrc/adrt/doc/ChangeLog is still +x
16:02.13``Eriksilly nfs, you should know enough that I don't have to do "cd $PWD"
16:03.08Z80-BoyDo they do this fingerprint scanning also on domestic flights?
16:03.31``Erikno, z80
16:03.51Z80-BoySo if a foreigner flies from LA to NYC, they don't fingerprint?
16:04.19``ErikI d'no about a foreign national, but I don't get fingerprinted when flying in the us
16:05.02Z80-BoyI think it should be possible to fly to Mexico or Canada, drive over the border or maybe take a train or a bus, and then fly the rest.
16:05.07``ErikI show up with my ticket, show 'em my drivers license, take off my shoes and go through the security crap and I'm on my way
16:05.27Z80-Boytake off your shoes? Why?
16:05.37Z80-BoyDo they make an X-ray of the body?
16:05.55``ErikI imagine that carrying a czech ID through a canadian/US entry will get some scrutiny
16:06.07``Erikno, for the metal detector... just to be pains in the arse I suppose
16:06.09brlcad``Erik: sounds shacky
16:06.33``Erikthey jacked up the sensitivity so far that the fucking rivets on my jeans have set them off before
16:06.59``Erikso they made it standard policy that the shoes have to go through the xray conveyer, I guess too many metal arch supports or rivets
16:07.27``Erik'shacky' is lamesauce for 'yes, I will join you gentlemen for lunch'?
16:07.33Z80-Boymaybe you could choke a pilot with your shoe
16:07.50``Erikheh, ya get 'em back after the detector/xray phase
16:08.10``Erik<-- wears slip-on type shoes when flying anymore :/
16:09.33Z80-BoyUS airports, the little gitmoes
16:09.44``ErikI would guess that xenophobia and general paranoia is going to make flying and border crossing less than enjoyable for you :(
16:10.20``ErikI've read stories about people being detained for 8+ hours on suspicions...
16:10.25Z80-BoyThis helps the terrorists reach their goal - paralyze the population with fear
16:10.38Z80-BoyI think the US administration should be charged with cooperation with the terrorists
16:11.05Z80-BoyI have read about someone who couldn't fly because he had a PIC (microcontroller) programmer where he added a resistor
16:11.17``Erik<-- looks over his shoulder
16:11.31``Erikit's interesting to hear a rational observation from another country
16:11.32``ErikO.o
16:11.32``Erik:D
16:11.32Z80-BoyThey said it's an Improvised Electronic Device (IED) and refused to allow him to take it on board
16:12.03``Erikyeah, then there ws the MIT student trying to fly with a pic controlled LED nametag, she thought it'd help her chances at the job fair she was going to or coming back from
16:12.17Z80-Boyyeah
16:12.30Z80-Boydid she get beaten up?
16:12.33``Erikand little LED athf ads were treated as bombs in like boston or something (where seattle just went "oh... cool")
16:12.46Z80-Boyathf == ?
16:12.51``Erikaqua teen hunger force
16:12.58Z80-Boywhat's that?
16:13.02``Eriktv show
16:13.28Z80-Boyand now you have to place your medication and ointments into bags even in Europe
16:13.35Z80-BoyI take train instead of an airplane
16:14.08``Erikheh
16:14.15Z80-BoyInstead of walking kilometers in little gitmoes and being humiliated by procedures, I feel like changing trams
16:14.17``Eriktrains are more expensive than flying here
16:14.29Z80-BoyIf you take a sleeping train you sleep through the night anyway
16:14.39``ErikI can fly to my parents for 200usd or take a train for 800
16:14.39Z80-Boythis one is fortunately more expensive
16:14.53``Eriklike 2000 for a sleeper
16:15.00Z80-Boyand now when the Shengen comes, I will not have to show my passport on the train, whereas in the airport you still have to show it
16:15.14Z80-BoyI want a train between Russia and the US
16:15.25``Erikmight get a bit moist for part of it
16:15.44Z80-BoyThere is the Bering strait isn't?
16:15.46``Erikalso; a lot of stodgy old politicians and idiot rednecks still have an "us vs them" attitude
16:15.53Z80-BoyThey said they want to build a bridge there
16:16.04``Erikyeah, the waters a little shallower there along the alutian island chain
16:16.16Z80-BoyUS vs them?
16:16.27Z80-Boyor a tunnel?
16:16.30Z80-BoyI don't know
16:16.39Z80-Boynow they are drilling a 57km tunnel here in Switzerland
16:16.44``ErikI meant "us" as in the self-identifying noun, not the nation
16:16.52``Erikyeah, I read about that
16:16.57``Erikand a massive bridge up there, too
16:17.01Z80-BoyBut sometimes I have a feeling it's US vs. The Rest Of The World
16:17.17Z80-Boymassive bridge here in Switzerland? What do you mean?
16:17.24``Erikwhere they were actuall ybuilding segments of the bridge upside down and using them as giant barges
16:17.26``Eriksweden area
16:17.35Z80-Boythat's not switzerland
16:17.38``Erikno, I know
16:17.55Z80-Boythat was Oresund wasn't? That's already finished
16:17.58``Eriknot much use for giant water-crossing bridges in switzerland... but europe is all "over there"
16:18.07``Erikand tiny :)
16:20.19Z80-BoyIf a company says training in the US is required, do you think it makes sense to reject their job offer because of the problems associated with travelling to US?
16:22.16``Erik*shrug* I d'no, all depends
16:23.46Z80-BoyI think EU should start taking fingerprints and naked pictures and post them freely downloadable under public domain licence
16:23.51Z80-Boyonly of US citizens
16:24.05``Erikheh
16:24.14``Erikdo ya really wanna see naked american tourists? O.o
16:24.43Z80-Boythat's right
16:24.43``Erikhuh, 'propdel svn:executable', keen
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16:28.16``Erikbrlcad: I'm gonna gather ed and head over there, we'll save a seat
18:46.06brlcadgrr..  now that's annoying that CVS repository has all .sh files with exec set, prop-edit lists .sh as being svn:executable, but they end up non-exec
18:58.50CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29888 10/brlcad/trunk/ (21 files in 13 dirs): more executable scripts that need their property set
18:59.36brlcadthere we go, had to resync the commit hooks
19:01.01CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29889 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: converted the source repository from CVS to Subversion
19:10.43brlcadwoo hoo, tcl files are correct now
19:35.24CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29890 10/brlcad/trunk/ (1827 files in 102 dirs): And I, for one, welcome our new rat overlords. All hail 2008, the year of the rat! (copyright update)
19:50.00alex_jonibrlcad: heh
19:51.24brlcadand ohloh enlistment is proceeding
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20:18.18``Erikohno, ohloh!
20:33.12brlcadohyeah!
20:37.26``Erikdid you just jump through a wall?
20:39.41alex_jonibrlcad: but still.. thank god for svn.. wouldn't want to imagine how that commit report would look for CVS
20:55.40brlcadthe summary report from CIA looks identical
20:56.28brlcadthe big difference now is that I only get one commit e-mail instead of 102 commit e-mails :)
21:02.28alex_joniyup
21:02.33alex_jonithat's what I meant..
21:03.24brlcadah, yeah :)
21:09.47CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10svn/Windows/svn-1.4.5-setup.exe: erhm, is something filtering exe files? add it again
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21:26.26IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/fb.png    <---- weeee Xwin32 and frame buffer :)
21:27.59IriX64ugly part is xwin32 only allows me 30 minutes a crack :)
21:28.31IriX64should buy the darn thing
21:34.59``Erikdoesn't cygwin come with a full-up X server?
21:35.28IriX64want it to work with any windows xserver
21:48.43IriX64gonna install it into the root of the C drive and copy the needed dll's over and see what happens
21:50.20IriX64make install
21:50.56IriX64how do you install an irc channel :)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080112

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080112

00:26.48*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
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02:25.49mateohh
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02:28.26``Erikhum
02:28.27``Erikhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d517d9381
02:38.14brlcadhum indeed
02:39.02brlcadhow did it surmise 16 minutes of downtime?
02:40.20``Erikby ordering boot times, finding 'down' times by adding boot times and uptimes, then subtracting the down time from the next boot time
02:40.59``Erik~erik/rel.scm
02:41.25brlcadit's only booted less than a half-dozen times ever iirc
02:41.29``Erik(slightly compressed)
02:42.13``Erik6 boot times
02:48.16brlcadhmm.. I'm also not sure I've had that machine for 2.14 years...
02:52.30``Erik/var/spool/uptimed/records
02:52.37``Erikyou didn't do a massive time change, did you?
02:52.54``Erikfiles in my home directory list 2005
02:54.18brlcadhm, October 18, 2004
02:54.40``ErikI'm seeing ~ files from '05, too
02:54.50brlcadthat's when I created my account
02:54.52``Erikthere's one from '04 in /etc
02:55.16brlcadwhich was the first day or there'bouts
02:56.03``ErikI think ya have had it that long, dude
02:56.19``Eriktime flies when you get old
02:57.05``Erik5.2.1 was feb 04, 5.3 was nov '04
02:58.12brlcadhm, that date's not quite matching other files I'm seeing too .. so not the first days .. but within a month I think ..
02:58.26brlcadso still, longer than 2.14
02:58.37brlcadyeah, I didn't mean less .. more
02:59.24brlcadso pushing 3.3 years or so
03:02.30brlcadsep30 2004
03:05.17brlcadwoot! .. "The error was on our end. I added some additional hardware to our database server today and BRLCAD's and a couple other long running jobs died in the process."
03:05.52brlcadohloh import, take 2!
03:06.13brlcad``Erik: maybe you installed/enabled uptimed 2.14 years ago?
03:14.16brlcadshould show uptimes of 121 days, preceeded by 499 days at least, then don't recall what preceeded that
03:18.01``ErikI'm sure
03:18.07``Erikrun uprecords -b
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17:12.11*** join/#brlcad aaronkramer (n=aaronkra@75-162-166-153.slkc.qwest.net)
17:12.17aaronkramerhey I am back
17:12.30aaronkrameri need help with brl-cad again
17:12.53brlcadhello aaronkramer
17:13.01aaronkramerI booted it once and it worked fine then I exited tried to boot it a few days later and it is giving me this error
17:13.11aaronkramerInitializing and backgrounding, please wait...Done
17:13.12aaronkramerno display name and no $DISPLAY environment variable
17:13.12aaronkramerMGED Aborted
17:13.23brlcadsame problem you had the first time
17:13.24aaronkramersorry just a sec
17:13.26aaronkrameryea
17:13.28brlcadrun from xterm, not Terminal
17:13.55brlcadmake sure X11 is running
17:14.04aaronkramerI try to run mged from xterm but it does not work
17:14.10aaronkramerit says command not found
17:14.17brlcadrun /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
17:15.21aaronkramerokay it, that works
17:15.25aaronkramerwhy does it do that
17:16.41aaronkramerand what is a good manual for brl-cad
17:21.29brlcadthat gets into just explaining how the unix command line paths work
17:21.34brlcadhas nothing to do with brl-cad really
17:22.12brlcadwhen you run a command, whether it be "mged" or "ls" or "whatever" on the command line .. it searches through a list of directories/folders throughout your filesystem
17:22.20brlcadthat list of places is called your PATH
17:22.46brlcadpretty much every operating system has a concept of a PATH that is searched when you run a command, even Windows
17:23.21brlcadBRL-CAD installs into the /usr/brlcad folder, with binaries in the /usr/brlcad/bin folder .. which is not in your PATH of folders searched by default
17:23.47brlcadso you have to either add it to your PATH or you have to specify the full location of the binary application that you're trying to run
17:23.58brlcadwhich is why /usr/brlcad/bin/mged works
17:24.36aaronkramerin xterm how would I make it so that all I have to do is type mged
17:24.51aaronkrameror is there a way to create a launcher like in linux for mac os x
17:27.05brlcadthere are several ways to make "launchers" under mac os x
17:27.18aaronkramerwould I use apple script?
17:27.31brlcadbut one of the easiest for what you're trying to do would be to add it to the X11 menu
17:27.45brlcadselect Applications -> Customize Menu
17:28.00brlcadclick the Add button
17:28.02aaronkramerwhere
17:28.06brlcadin X11
17:28.20brlcadmake X11 the focused app
17:28.31brlcadthen up on the menu, select Applications -> Customize Menu
17:29.05aaronkramerthen I just put in the command then what I want it to be named
17:29.36brlcadreverse that, but yes
17:29.48brlcadfirst column is the menu name, second is the command
17:30.28aaronkramerI see
17:30.45brlcadtry "/usr/brlcad/bin/mged -f" as the command
17:31.35aaronkramerI didn't work with the -f
17:31.45aaronkramerit worked without it though
17:31.53brlcadreally?  that's odd .. ok
17:32.36brlcadthe other way to make it so that typing "mged" works is to modify your PATH setting
17:32.38aaronkrameractually it didn't work with either
17:33.00aaronkramerhow do I do that
17:33.02brlcadhm, I've heard that the X11 launcher is a bit buggy
17:33.25aaronkramerYea I heard from various sources that mac also killed X11 in mac os x
17:33.57brlcadrun this command:  ls -lad .??* | grep -i profile
17:34.01brlcadwhat does it report?
17:34.22brlcadthat's a listing of files that start with a "." looking for any profile files
17:34.50brlcadshould see either .profile or .bash_profile
17:34.50aaronkramer-rw-r--r--    1 aaronkra  aaronkra     264 Jan 10 18:51 .profile
17:34.55brlcadokay
17:34.59brlcadcat .profile
17:35.37brlcadthat displays the contents of the .profile file
17:35.45brlcadwhat's in there?
17:36.12aaronkramer-rw-r--r--    1 aaronkra  aaronkra     264 Jan 10 18:51 .profile
17:36.21aaronkrameroops
17:36.24aaronkramersorry
17:36.26aaronkramerit says
17:36.52aaronkramerexport PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH
17:37.12brlcadah, so someone already helped you add it to your path
17:37.29aaronkramerpossibly
17:38.02aaronkramerso why wouldn't it work
17:38.06brlcadrun this:  open -e .profile
17:38.13brlcadthat will open up the with in TextEdit
17:38.20brlcadadd a line that says this:
17:38.24brlcadexport DISPLAY=:0
17:38.30brlcadsave the file
17:39.12aaronkramerokay
17:39.16aaronkramerdone
17:39.25brlcadnow you can type "mged" from Terminal
17:39.38aaronkramerI already could as long as x11 was open
17:40.28aaronkramerit gives me the same error when I type it in from terminal with x11 closed
17:40.31brlcadonly because I made BRL-CAD 7.10.4 on Mac OS X specifically try to search for X11
17:40.38brlcadyeah, X11 has to be running
17:40.55brlcadwe've not made a release that doesn't need it (though one is being worked on)
17:41.18aaronkramercool
17:41.31aaronkramerwill it ever move away from CMDUI
17:41.58aaronkramerCMDLUI*
17:42.32brlcadone of the major efforts is to make it more "gui-friendly"
17:42.43brlcadmore user-friendly in general with a new look
17:43.03aaronkramerthat would be really nice
17:43.10brlcadthe command line will never go away, but you won't necessarily *have* to use/learn it to be productive
17:43.22aaronkrameryea
17:43.25brlcadjust like how mac os x has a command line, but you don't necessarily have to learn it
17:43.49brlcadas for documentation/tutorials, they're on the website: http://brlcad.org/
17:43.59aaronkramerokay
17:44.01brlcadDocumentation section .. I'd suggest just going down the list in order
17:44.42brlcadthe really big one is the "Introduction to MGED"
17:44.46aaronkramerAbout BRL-CAD's features, I heard it had a chemical library that let you define the composition of a component is that true
17:44.54aaronkramerokay
17:45.02aaronkrameri think I will download all of those as back up
17:45.05brlcadthat's the extensive introduction that takes you through tutorial after tutorial that will give you instruction on the basics
17:46.26brlcadnot sure what you mean by chemical library -- we coordinate, hook into, and are USED by several major analysis packages (including for ballistics, optics, chem, bio, radar signature, V/L, etc)
17:47.27brlcadyou can specify an objects material properties in brl-cad for computation of things like mass/weight, centroids, volume, etc
17:47.41aaronkramerthats pretty cool
17:48.40brlcadthe material property basically boils down to the modeler specifying a list of material densities, marking objects as being a given material type, and then running one of our tools that performs calculations that use the material information (rtweight, g_qa, others)
17:49.02brlcadrtarea for projected presented coverage areas if you're looking at profile information
17:49.16brlcadrtcheck and g_qa for overlap/interference computations
17:49.33aaronkramerwhat renderer does it use
17:51.52brlcadwe have a variety of renderers
17:52.31brlcadthere's a wireframe render in mged, there are various ray-tracers (rt, rtedge)
17:53.29brlcadas a real quick tutorial, you can run this:  mged /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.10.4/db/havoc.g
17:53.39brlcadthen in the mged command window type:  e havoc
17:53.56brlcadthen type: rt -s 1024
17:54.02brlcadthen type: rtedge -s 1024
17:54.35brlcad(there are ways to do that all via the gui, but much easier to explain/describe it as commands
17:55.39brlcadgot to run off, so best of luck on the tutorials -- they really are essential *just* to get a grasp of the basics
17:56.09aaronkramersee ya
17:56.11aaronkramerand thanks
17:56.37brlcadsure, btw, you should see something like: http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png after that last step
17:56.41brlcad(minus the box)
17:56.48brlcad(and smaller)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080113

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080113

00:34.43*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@S0106000475d6c028.cg.shawcable.net)
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13:52.33curioushmm. can brlcad operate on photors/using dynamic space-time domain?
13:54.17curioushttp://www.islandia.is/gko/EMNG04-moment.pdf photors as defined here
14:08.12*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:08.15poolio:o
14:08.54``ErikO.o
14:12.09poolioI'm disappointed by mbo's uptime :P
14:14.41``Erik"mbo"?
14:47.29pooliomy.brlcad.org
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15:34.06brlcadwtf
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15:58.16brlcadwell that sucks, but apparently the ISP had a major power outage that lasted several hours, exhausting their backup power capacities too
16:00.47louipcouch
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18:36.38brlcadwell, there's a response on scan.coverity.com regarding our Coverity report
18:37.26brlcadwe fall into that category of the projects that include other projects, related to why it's taking so long for them to get a new scan going
18:44.27yukonbobbrlcad: re: coverity, is it possible to just submit the original files instead of the third-party support files?
18:45.49yukonbobie: Tcl is already being scanned itself (and happens to be one of 11 projects in rung2, the hightest to day ;), and things like the utah raster, tcl extensions, etc. would be nice to test, but do they present too much interference to getting the original code (ie: librt) tested?
18:46.05yukonbob*highest to date
18:50.26*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron)
18:51.32MinuteElectronDid something happen recently, my screen session went dead and some of my settings appear to have been altered.
18:52.51MinuteElectronThat is quite ironic.
18:52.57yukonbobhow so?
18:53.50MinuteElectronThe server was taken offline a hundred or so days ago to install something to do with power, probably unrelated but if it is it just shows that meddling with something that works isn't a great idea.
18:54.21CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29891 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/macosx/openUp.c: quell ohloh APSL license detection since we can't yet specify (to ohloh) that it should ignore/exempt some files/dirs
18:55.12yukonbobbrlcad was saying the outage was a long one, and so exhausted their backups -- maybe the 100-day-ago issue was to install the backup; if that's the case, it's only "unfortunate" that the backups couldn't handle that length of outage...
18:56.00yukonbobas long as the host expected to be losing power soon, and could gracefully shutdown before just having it's juice exhausted...
18:56.26MinuteElectronAhh, ok.
19:20.05brlcadyukonbob: that's the problem with the scans in general, and why ours hasn't updated -- they've been looking at how to exempt those dependency projects from the scans
19:20.14brlcadwe're not the only project like that
19:21.08brlcadthey don't just do a static analysis either, they need to be able to compile as their checker basically is a compiler doing path analyses
19:22.25brlcadMinuteElectron: yeah, the machine lost power (all machines at the ISP (hundreds) lost power) due to a major outage
19:23.03brlcadthe thing 100 days ago or so was a new UPS for our rack and a new remote reboot port
19:23.55brlcadthis was power coming from the grid that failed, and the brownout lasted several hours
19:24.39MinuteElectronToo bad, although you would think the ISP would have adaquete backups even for a very long power outage since I wouldn't be suprised if there were several mission-critical systems hosted by them/
19:24.50brlcadfrom what I've read the UPS' only held up an hour or so, and they had problems with keeping the main facility diesel backup generator running due to a faulty valve
19:25.02brlcadthey did, the backups failed :)
19:25.13brlcadrather, the backups of the backups
19:25.42MinuteElectronXD
19:26.45brlcadyeah, they have way bigger customers than us, multimillion dollar customers, that lose major money when anything goes down
19:27.22yukonbob!gah -- they better have a good insurance policy for that...
19:27.56yukonbob(or perhaps whatever electricity they could generate went to those customers)
19:29.38yukonbobre: coverity -- ah -- too bad (for us) -- do we need permission (from project maintainers) to have utah raster lib (for example) run through coverity -- I know you need permission to join a coverity project and see the results...
19:30.42brlcadmany massive data centers like sago's have agreements with the power company that compensates them if they're down more than N minutes a year
19:31.02brlcaddunno if sago has that in place, but they should.. even still, it happens
19:31.36brlcadeven the rackspace kings had major downtime just this past fall for several hours when a truck crashed into one of their transformers
19:32.16brlcadhttp://www.rackspace.com/information/announcements/datacenter.php  fun fun :)
19:32.24brlcadcost them millions
19:33.58brlcadyukonbob: as for coverity and permissions.. huh??? :)  no
19:34.47brlcadthe permission is permission *from coverity* as they only want to scan projects that they approve, they don't want to be scanning every open source project out there or (worse) commercial customers for free
19:35.44brlcadthey're paid by uncle sam to scan open source projects
19:36.12yukonbobbrlcad: but I (yukonbob) can't take a look at the scan results for any project I want... I need permission from the project leads (like I need permission to commit to the BRL-CAD cvs/svn)...
19:36.18louipc# We have made changes to the leadership and staff at our DFW Data Center.
19:36.20louipcuh oh
19:36.47brlcadyukonbob: oh sure, that's just the nature of their scanning system though
19:37.05brlcadI'd give you an account if I could, but the whole login system is actually down at the moment ever since the news went up
19:37.30yukonbobright -- but is there an issue with BRL-CAD submitting 3rd party code and getting access to the results?
19:37.49brlcadjust a technical issue
19:37.59yukonbobie: I myself can't say "lets put OpenBSD up there" and then have access to the OpenBSD bug list...
19:38.06brlcadthe report includes issues in all the 3rd party code as well as our code
19:38.36brlcadyukonbob: you could request it -- I requested that BRL-CAD be added
19:39.03brlcadbut he's likely not going to approve someone not "in charge" of a given project, unless it's one of the unclaimed rung 0 projects
19:39.16yukonbobI did request NetBSD be put up -- but I don't have access to the bug list...
19:39.28brlcadheh
19:39.35brlcadwell I know why that is
19:39.51brlcadthe guy in charge of the whole thing for Coverity
19:39.57brlcadDavid Maxwell
19:40.03brlcadhe's a core NetBSD developer
19:40.05yukonbobI'm not a NetBSD coreteam member... it makes sense
19:40.08yukonbobheh
19:40.23brlcadso he probably just chuckled
19:40.33yukonbobI guess :)
19:41.02brlcadheh, that's funny .. of all the projects ...
19:41.04yukonbobbut back to example of URL (utah raster lib) -- will they give us the URL buglist, even though it's not our project?
19:41.27yukonbob(but is a dependency of the BRL-CAD build)
19:41.39brlcadyes, but it just all is attributed as BRL-CAD code
19:42.04brlcade.g. they (at least originally) considered everything in our source tarball as "BRL-CAD" code
19:42.05yukonbobbecause unless a URL dev gets access to that list, we have info that may be unpatched and could wreak havoc on other projects using the URL...
19:42.09brlcadsame goes for every other project
19:42.26brlcadyet often clearly not the case when it's external code (zlib is a common one many provide)
19:43.14brlcadfor what it's worth, we're pretty much the maintainers for URT (utah raster toolkit)
19:43.24yukonbobah right -- urt not url
19:43.27brlcadbut tcl/tk is a better example
19:43.41brlcadthey're a big package and ALSO in coverity scan
19:43.48yukonbobit's got 0 issues atm
19:44.07brlcadyet if you look at the little bit of BRL-CAD report we do have -- all those issues listed were actually in Tcl
19:44.35brlcadthe "99 uninspected" issues at http://scan.coverity.com/rung1.html for BRL-CAD are Tcl issues
19:44.41yukonbobso re: Tcl -- did we need a TCT member to "sign-off" on allowing the Tcl to be included in the BRL-CAD scan?
19:44.55brlcadand then the coverity scanner died shortly after when it got to Tk, I believe
19:45.06brlcadno
19:45.24brlcadi still don't get where/why you think we need these sign-off's...
19:45.44yukonbobhrm --- if that's the way it works, so be it -- just seems like private information to me (ie: us knowing the bugs in tcl/tk, potentially before TCT members do)
19:46.17brlcadit just means that we may get reports for issues in code that we may or may not maintain
19:46.32brlcadwhich we could fix or mark as verified and ignore
19:46.39brlcador leave out of the scan entirely
19:47.10brlcadwhich is what david has been trying to do for our code since we were first added, ignore everything in src/other
19:47.28brlcadjust hasn't finished
19:47.47brlcadI imagine it took changes to coverity prevent
19:47.53yukonbobmy reasoning is that the coverity scan seems like a powerful tool to find classes of bugs -- wouldn't want hax0rs to have access to information before it's patched, or even known by the true maintainers of the software... but if they're only allowing certain projects, and contacting the project leads for those, I guess they're assuming that all the folks being scanned are responsible people...
19:48.23brlcadpretty much
19:49.16brlcadseems like a pretty darn safe assumption to me .. i mean even with tcl getting included in our report, we might actually want to fix their issues as we do depend on them
19:49.21brlcadtheir issuers *are* our issues
19:49.44brlcadbut I certainly don't want to fix their problems if I don't have to :)
19:49.53brlcadand them likewise for their deps I'm sure
19:50.24yukonbobright -- I was assuming Joe Hacker could submit a project that might depend on openssl, though, and then have access to classes of errors in ssl that could be used on the Wild Wild Web
19:50.45brlcadwhich is why the set up projects individually one at a time, ask who you are, etc
19:51.35brlcadevery project they've added is manually added, takes david a couple hours per project of effort iirc
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23:08.12CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29892 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged_dm.h: no need to define DEG2RAD and RAD2DEG
23:17.54CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29893 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: enable maintainer mode for any type of checkout, not just cvs (i.e. subversion too)
23:24.08CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29894 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/book/VolumeIV.xml: use bu_exit for the examples
23:27.14CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29895 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/isst/ (master/ slave/): ignore the binary products
23:39.12CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29896 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (41 files in 8 dirs): refactor to use bu_exit instead of bu_log+exit where applicable
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080114

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080114

00:08.21*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@c-67-172-239-24.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
00:47.36*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@S0106000475d6c028.cg.shawcable.net)
01:16.36louipchttp://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/
01:16.49louipchah I was thrown off by the two brlcads
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06:06.59curioushttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minkowski_spacetime
06:07.00curious;0
06:07.02curious:)
06:07.16curioussometimes one spends shitload time reinventing wheel
06:46.12louipccurious: you lost me
06:47.08curiousi admit it's messy, i can't find sth simple.
06:47.21curiousor rather complete
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07:42.52CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29897 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/ (Makefile.am pix-ci.c): remove the obsolete (irix-specific) pix-ci tool for preparing pix files for irix image processing tools
07:47.06CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29898 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/ (Makefile.am pl-starbase.1 pl-starbase.c): also remove pl-starbase as it requires maintenance, custom headers, and hasn't been enabled (compilation-wise) in many years
08:12.13*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
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13:05.58*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-083-129.pools.arcor-ip.net)
13:57.54``Erika/blah
13:58.01CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r29899 10/brlcad/trunk/include/config_win.h: No longer need HAVE_RANDOM.
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14:21.18*** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
14:21.18*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
14:36.12CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29900 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/hideline.c: remove the UAH and redstone arsenal source address/phone number, cleanup header
14:36.30CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29901 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/pl-hpgl.1: remove source
14:51.44CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29902 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/ttcp.c: return instead of exit in main
14:56.32CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29903 10/brlcad/trunk/include/rtgeom.h: rtgeom uses/requires vmath and bu for typedef decls, so include them
15:06.48CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29904 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (68 files in 12 dirs): extensive bu_exit refactoring with related cleanup on calls to exit and stderr, header cleanup along with way
15:09.28CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29905 10/brlcad/trunk/ (138 files in 138 dirs): remove the .cvsignore files since they are no longer used. the ignore patterns are now svn:ignore properties on the directory and can be edited with propset/propedit.
15:14.17CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29906 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/ (7 files):
15:14.17CIA-30BRL-CAD: remove the various Ikonas writer utilities that have been disabled from
15:14.17CIA-30BRL-CAD: compilation (now that they're all updated, ugh) since they require an
15:14.17CIA-30BRL-CAD: unspecified header and need maintenance updates. until someone needs them again,
15:14.17CIA-30BRL-CAD: they can stay stashed in the bowels of revision history. includes pix-filt-ik,
15:14.19CIA-30BRL-CAD: pix-ik, pix-ikr, pix-lowp-ik, pixt-ik.
15:20.58CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29907 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/Makefile.am: pix-ci.c was removed too
15:28.52CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29908 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/ (Makefile.am fix_polysolids.c): update fix_polysolids to the new API specs, massive reformat and cleanup, make it compile again. still needs more work so that it's not v4 specific and not just polysolids but any nmg/bot.
15:29.51CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29909 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/: ignore fix_polysolids
15:32.18``ErikI imagine this means that the svn conversion is omfg complete and we're rolling?
15:34.15CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29910 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/tracker.sh:
15:34.15CIA-30BRL-CAD: fix a bug where the page layout changed and the tracker type/name was no longer
15:34.15CIA-30BRL-CAD: getting extracted correctly, also now extract the submitters description as part
15:34.15CIA-30BRL-CAD: of a new COMMENT field in the output. take care to not save more than 1020
15:34.15CIA-30BRL-CAD: chars for now.
15:38.16CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29911 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/ (Makefile.am news2tracker.sh):
15:38.16CIA-30BRL-CAD: add a new script for generating the same style table as tracker.sh, but
15:38.16CIA-30BRL-CAD: extracted from the NEWS file revision history. was written to work with svn
15:38.16CIA-30BRL-CAD: commands, pulling the same data as it pertains to sf trackers using the commit
15:38.17CIA-30BRL-CAD: history. cross references the annotate revisions per-line with the commit log
15:38.19CIA-30BRL-CAD: messages for those lines, and uses the NEWS file's simple format as an
15:38.21CIA-30BRL-CAD: assumption for extracting the title and assignees.
15:40.05brlcadyeah, seems to be properly omfg complete now
15:41.06brlcadhave some interesting numbers on ohloh to sort out before declaring anything final, but looks good to me so far
15:48.23CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29912 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: new tracker tool for NEWS items
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16:02.38yukonbob"ohloh"?
16:03.55brlcadhttp://www.ohloh.net/projects/3996?p=BRL-CAD
16:05.27brlcada pretty useful/interesting stats site
16:05.43brlcadour numbers are doubled right now because it includes both cvs and svn
16:34.36``Erikohno, ohloh!
16:36.04``Erikneato, rt_dirbuild failure
16:58.40CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29913 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (553 files in 42 dirs):
16:58.40CIA-30BRL-CAD: delintify the ifndef linted RCSid $ variable blocks, i.e., remove them. they're
16:58.40CIA-30BRL-CAD: not really useful any more, particularly with svn (or any modern scm for that
16:58.40CIA-30BRL-CAD: matter), so we can make the compiler's job just a little bit easier.
17:08.13CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29914 10/brlcad/trunk/ (401 files in 48 dirs): use consistent spacing around the common header inclusion using one and only blank line before and after.
17:10.52CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29915 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (5 files in 5 dirs): more common.h consistency
17:17.48``Erikdoes svn obey rcs flags?
17:18.41Z80-Boy<PROTECTED>
17:23.45brlcadrcs flags?
17:27.54brlcadit will expand most rcs variables if that's what you mean, whereas some others become properties
17:28.46``Erikok
17:28.58alex_joniZ80-Boy: irssi++
17:46.07CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r29916 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/htester.c: RCSid is actually used here
17:50.43CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r29917 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libpkg/pkg.c librtserver/rtserver.c): RCSid is actually used here
18:04.44CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r29918 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/ (103 files in 103 dirs): Minor cleanup.
18:10.35*** part/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@bz.bzflag.bz)
18:10.43*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@bz.bzflag.bz)
18:50.33*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-82-220.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:59.18CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29919 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpkg/pkg.c: for debug printing the version, use the (newish) pkg_version() instead
19:00.46CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29920 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librtserver/rtserver.c:
19:00.46CIA-30BRL-CAD: similarly, have the service be provided the full version string (if the intent
19:00.46CIA-30BRL-CAD: is to parse a date/time/version, there are other/better routines as rt_version()
19:00.46CIA-30BRL-CAD: is the human-readable paragraph form, so might need changing)
19:02.12CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29921 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/htester.c: meh, it's a noinst, just kill the (fairly useless) -v option.
19:12.29``Erikwell poo on you ptbtbtbt
19:14.08brlcadheh
19:14.35brlcadif there don't have to be 'exceptions', all the better :)
19:35.06``Erikhummmm
19:36.24``Erikbrlcad, where shold I cram the point evaluation function for the mball prim for the s2 guys? it requires a little info from rtgeom.h, so I was thinking about packing it in there with the struct definition
19:40.49CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r29922 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_metaball.c: Initial support for handling different evaluation methods.
19:51.35CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r29923 10/brlcad/trunk/include/rtgeom.h: Prototype for point evaluation function.
19:55.53CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r29924 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/dg_obj.c: Mods affecting use of rt and rtcheck on Windows.
19:59.11CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r29925 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/parse_fmt.c: uos not getting terminated properly.
20:03.01CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r29926 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-wgl.c: Tk_CreateWindowFromPath not properly initializing the TkWindow structure for toplevel windows.
20:08.55CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r29927 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/rtgeom.h src/librt/g_metaball.c): Add goo factor to metaball primitive (used in metaball and blob evaluation)
20:14.02CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r29928 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_wgl.c: Removed call to Sleep() from wgl_do_event(). This was causing a delay in wgl_close(). Uncomment/reactivate a few lines of code in wgl_open().
20:17.07CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r29929 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/setup.c: Initialize dgop->dgo_rtCmdNotify. This function is called by librt when rt and nirt finish.
20:18.12CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r29930 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ged.c: Mods to get classic mode working on Windows.
20:21.39CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r29931 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: Added dgo_rtCmndNotify member.
20:57.10CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r29932 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpkg/pkg.c: Minor mods for Windows.
20:59.08CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r29933 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/main.c: Mods for Windows (initialize sockets if using a framebuffer).
21:03.48CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r29934 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/isst/ (Makefile.am isst.h isst_struct.h slave/main.c slave/slave.c): remove vestigial headers
21:04.00CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r29935 10/brlcad/trunk/src/fb/ (7 files): Mods to initialize sockets. This is really for Windows (i.e. calls to pkg_init() do nothing unless on Windows).
21:10.42CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r29936 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/rise/ (master/Makefile.am slave/Makefile.am): forcibly disable RISE for now
21:22.31CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r29937 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/ (. main.c main.c slave.c slave.c): hoist the isst master/slave nodes up to adrt's toplevel
21:23.32CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r29938 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/master/ (17 files): hoist the isst master/slave nodes up to adrt's toplevel
21:23.44CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r29939 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: hoist the isst master/slave nodes up to adrt's toplevel
21:24.08CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r29940 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/isst/ (13 files in 4 dirs): hoist the isst master/slave nodes up to adrt's toplevel
21:24.18CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r29941 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (Makefile.am doc/ChangeLog): hoist the isst master/slave nodes up to adrt's toplevel
21:42.29CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r29942 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ged.c: Fix pre-processor mishap.
21:44.57brlcadwhoosh
21:47.41``Erikheh
21:47.57``Erikbobs getting sick of me running down to his office whining about broken builds, I think
21:50.38``Erikooh, broken in tcl, neat
22:01.26brlcadmmm.. and now that I've taken so long to verify a mod, I get to deal with the conflicts
22:04.38``Erikwait, what's this "verify"? :D *duck*
22:05.11alex_jonifirst verify *then* commit?
22:05.17alex_joniseems all backwards to me :P
22:05.29brlcadit's where my eyes bleed four a coupld hours reading a diff, knowing there will *still* be something missed :)
22:05.42``Erik<-- been there, done that
22:05.59alex_jonibrlcad: is it coloured at least?
22:06.01``Erikevery time I do sed coding, I go over the diffs before committing
22:07.30brlcadalex_joni: niet
22:07.37alex_jonibrlcad: ouch
22:07.54alex_jonino wonder you get bleedy eyes
22:09.26alex_jonibrlcad: I always prefer something like this: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/src/emc/task/emctask.cc.diff?r1=1.4;r2=1.3.6.1;f=h
22:09.41alex_joni(but of course.. emails are usually plain diff..)
22:10.39``Eriksome of us don't need crutches O:-) *duck*
22:12.24brlcadalex_joni: heh, my eyes would still be bleeding
22:12.34brlcadit's the quantity
22:12.50``Erikahhhh, interesting
22:13.11``Erikbrlcad, when looking for the included tclConfig.sh, it fails at configure time
22:13.19``Erikas it only exists as tclConfig.sh.in
22:13.19alex_jonithe one that marks *safe* things green, and potential problematic stuff red-ish
22:13.20brlcadonly gets tiring because it's thousands (or tens of thousands) of lines
22:13.20``Erikis that known?
22:13.33brlcadyeah, I noticed that a while ago
22:13.56alex_jonithat's a replacement.. right?
22:14.06``Erikit's a configure generated substitution dealie
22:14.13alex_jonithere should be an installed tclConfig.sh
22:14.16``Erikyes
22:14.22brlcadyeah, doesn't exist until configure .. yet you're supposed to use it in configure
22:14.39brlcadalex_joni: this is when building as a sub-configure
22:14.44brlcadnot pre-install
22:14.58alex_jonibrlcad: lost me.. but it doesn't really matter..
22:15.05alex_jonigood you grasp it :P
22:15.07``Erikit's a chicken and egg problem
22:15.17``Erikit needs to be used in the script that generates it
22:15.35alex_joniI used to search for tclConfig.sh a while ago, but I searched for the one installed by tcl
22:15.36``Erikor a cyclic graph problem, if you wanna go there
22:15.48alex_joni``Erik: I get what you're saying..
22:16.42*** join/#brlcad cad86 (n=caaa2a1a@bz.bzflag.bz)
22:18.05``Erikso now --enable-all gives me "checking for Tcl configuration... configure: WARNING: Can't find Tcl configuration definitions", so I can't do a distcheck, so who knows how bad my directory moving broke stuff :D
22:19.07brlcadi think our configure can be reworked .. just hadn't got to that issue yet
22:19.20brlcadplain make dies here in it
22:19.21brlcadMaking all in master
22:19.21brlcadmake[3]: *** No rule to make target `all'.  Stop.
22:19.45brlcadahh
22:19.46``Erikum, did you autoreconf and re-configure and everything?
22:20.08``Erikadrt gets through a full build in both configurations for me, both fbsd and mac
22:20.19brlcadyeah, was out of sync with the new .am
22:20.24``ErikI just wanted the distcheck ok on it
22:20.55brlcadthe second time configure goes through, there should be a tclConfig.sh
22:21.05``Erikhum
22:21.11``Eriklame
22:21.16``Erikbut a workaround
22:23.12brlcadyup
22:23.50``Erikermmmm
22:23.59``Erikit doesn't seem to genreate the file if it's not building tcl
22:24.22CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29943 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: should use bu_strlcat/bu_strlcpy instad of strn?cat/strn?cpy
22:24.39brlcadyeah, have to --enable-tcl so it runs tcl's configure
22:24.45brlcadthat's what generates the sh
22:25.12``Erikfails with the same message
22:25.13``ErikO.o
22:25.14``Erikweird
22:25.34``Erikwonder if it's because I build out of dir
22:25.50``Erikanyways, time to lock up the building, hit the head and cruise home, night kids
22:26.32brlcadcheers
22:29.23alex_jonig'night
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23:11.20CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29944 10/brlcad/trunk/ (619 files in 50 dirs):
23:11.20CIA-30BRL-CAD: comma space ws consistency, include a space after commas in expressions (e.g.,
23:11.20CIA-30BRL-CAD: ', '). applied globally minus a few exceptions where the alignment was
23:11.20CIA-30BRL-CAD: signficant to the formatting or on tables where it was used to indicate
23:11.20CIA-30BRL-CAD: grouping.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080115

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080115

00:22.24CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29945 10/brlcad/trunk/ (204 files in 28 dirs): more ws comma consistency cleanup. remove the spaces before commas throughout.
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04:01.20``Erikwhoa
04:03.49``Erikhttp://www.macports.org/ports.php?by=name&substr=glpong
04:17.11Axman6hmm?
04:27.28Axman6``Erik: if you're on a mac, check out http://trac.macosforge.org/projects/xquartz/wiki/X112.1.2
04:31.38``Erikaxman: what I pasted was a program I wrote 6 years ago, a 1-day game
04:31.51Axman6heh, awesome :P
04:36.17brlcad``Erik: and points to a dead website w/ no maintainer :)
04:36.20brlcadyou should fix it
04:37.43``Erikyeah
04:37.51``ErikI was poking at it
04:38.06``Erikmy tarballs seem broken for how macports wants to play with 'em
04:38.07``Erik:/
04:40.11brlcadshould be nearly identical other than building on mac
04:40.28brlcadfew macports I played with were the just copied over from ports
04:40.47``Erikyeah... well, the most recent, for some reason, the mac is whining about missing depcomp
04:42.36``Erikmebbe I'll push another release, the inclusion of openal in osX got me to update stuff in my cvs that hasn't been released
04:52.14``Erikmmmm isla fisher
04:53.12Axman6now that was an odd coincidence
05:04.17``Erik?
05:07.09Axman6someone just mentioned that name in another chan on another network. like a minute before you did
05:07.45``Erikhum
05:07.55``Erikperhaps they were watching the same channel and saw the same commercial
05:31.17*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543687.dsl.bell.ca)
05:50.12brlcadarf.. bob's commit messages are so devoid of information
05:51.06brlcadpractically no indication of what's wrong or how his changes help
05:56.01brlcadheh, goo factor
05:56.15brlcadsticky balls
05:56.29Axman6...
05:56.47brlcadAxman6: hehe, a commit message to the metaball primitive
05:56.49louipchot over there?
05:56.55brlcadhas a new "goo" factor
05:57.12Axman6excellent
05:57.23brlcadmetaballs are always good for low brow humor
05:57.30Axman6i'm sure smeone has a need for gooy balls
05:58.26brlcadhrm, don't seem to have a good screenie
06:04.09CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29946 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: (log message trimmed)
06:04.09CIA-30BRL-CAD: Bob fixed the extended rendering delays that users would see when ray-tracing on
06:04.09CIA-30BRL-CAD: Windows. you could see via the log that the ray-trace would finish very quickly
06:04.09CIA-30BRL-CAD: (nearly instantly sometimes) but then would stall for a minute or two before
06:04.09CIA-30BRL-CAD: displaying the image to the framebuffer. the problem was actually a manual
06:04.12CIA-30BRL-CAD: Sleep() call that was added a long time ago (heh) to the wgl framebuffer that
06:04.14CIA-30BRL-CAD: made it interactively update the image while it rendered and made a completed
06:16.19brlcadarmy ants are awesome
06:22.52CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29947 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: (log message trimmed)
06:22.52CIA-30BRL-CAD: (reworded line) Bob fixed the extended rendering delays that users would see
06:22.52CIA-30BRL-CAD: when ray-tracing on Windows. you could see via the log that the ray-trace would
06:22.52CIA-30BRL-CAD: finish very quickly (nearly instantly sometimes) but then would stall for a
06:22.52CIA-30BRL-CAD: minute or two before displaying the image to the framebuffer. the problem was
06:22.54CIA-30BRL-CAD: actually a manual Sleep() call that was added a long time ago (heh) to the wgl
06:22.56CIA-30BRL-CAD: framebuffer that made it interactively update the image while it rendered and
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07:14.14Axman6brlcad: how so?
07:29.18curiousCIA-30, ah! well, lol, indeed, plainly clearing it took loads of time on pci based savage + dual cpu setup, lol
07:30.08curiousit's a bot i assume ? :)
07:44.08Axman6yah
07:52.11brlcadcurious: yes, a commit reporter announcing changes to the source code
07:52.52brlcad(in real time)
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08:02.46Axman6brlcad: why makes army ants so awesome?
08:12.51*** join/#brlcad Axman6_ (n=Axman6@210-9-143-190.netspeed.com.au)
08:21.43brlcadmmmm.. that's a LONG discussion :)
08:21.56brlcad(for me at least) :)
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14:01.05CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r29948 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ged.c: It looks like the Windows specific call to Tcl_CreateChannelHandler() was accidentally removed.
14:05.36``Erikhmmmm
14:05.44``Eriksvn ann NEWS | sort -nr | head -n 30
14:05.50``Erikneat
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16:26.21CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r29949 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/attach.c: The indices for the MGED_DISPLAY_VAR were accidentally changed. This prevented MGED's status bar on the command window from being updated.
16:33.29``Erikho hum
16:35.51``Erikhum, ho! hum!
19:39.49CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r29950 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/accel.tcl: Fixed bug in rcc-cap that shows up when using the 't' option.
20:46.50``Erik*sigh* mac word doesn't seem to have a "mail merge", just a "data merge" with no mention of mail
20:51.03brlcaddata merge should do it, ties to address book for e-mail mailers
20:52.48brlcadyeah, in the Merge Manager
20:52.59brlcadafter you fill in all of the options, there's a "Merge to Mail" option
20:53.45brlcadsounds like it uses your entourage address book only for outgoing address(es)
20:55.06brlcader, "Merge to E-Mail" specifically, under the Merge dropdown on the "Data Merge Manager"
21:05.10``Eriktoo bad you can't change font size in ms's help crap :/
21:18.22``Erikthe "filter" crap seems handy
21:21.36``ErikI have a feeling it's trying to use mail.app :/
21:34.42``Erikhummmm
21:36.27poolioMacbook Air :]
21:37.44``Erikit's pretty, but does that video chipset have the unf once would want?
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21:46.16poolio``Erik: I'm looking for an ultraportable to do coding and general computing schtuff. I have a desktop for the umph. My Asus just died so I'm seriously considering it...the price is a bit steep though.
21:50.29``Erikany old cheap machine can work for coding O.o
21:52.13poolioI'm actually thinking of buying it for the sex appeal.
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22:30.38PrezKennedybrlcad, don't think I'm ever going Apple... not when the 4GB ram upgrade is $700
22:37.15poolioJust buy 3rd party RAM
22:37.55brlcadyeah, just buy the memory elsewhere
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22:38.46brlcadthe memory has always been a major premium .. we don't even buy it from apple for work most of the time
22:39.02PrezKennedythe 17" MacBook still ends up being almost $1500 more
22:39.30brlcadmore than what?  
22:39.53PrezKennedymy 17" Pavilion, which has more disk space and 4GB of RAM
22:40.00brlcadand is how big?
22:40.19PrezKennedywhat is how big?
22:40.29brlcadsize is a *major* factor in the price of laptops, every ounce reduction is a pretty major change in price
22:40.35PrezKennedyim comparing MacBook Pro to this
22:40.43PrezKennedyso about a pound
22:40.48brlcadthe size of your pavillion vs mbp
22:41.08brlcada pound difference?  that's pretty big...
22:41.24PrezKennedyso is $1500!
22:41.44brlcadit might not be something you care about, but that's a major diff in price for any laptop maker
22:41.56pooliobrlcad: any thoughts on the macbook air?
22:42.21PrezKennedycmon, if theyre charging $700 for $80 RAM, you know they're nailing you elsewhere too
22:42.22brlcadpoolio: yeah, I wish solid state hard drives still weren't so damn expensive :)
22:42.43pooliobrlcad: I'm trying to find out if it is upgradeable. I preordered one :o
22:43.10poolioThe mac fanboys are whining everywhere but I like it. They could have cut an inch off the width though...
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22:43.55PrezKennedyDoesn't come with a drive does it?
22:44.14brlcadPrezKennedy: compare the specs to a pavilion (or dell or vaio) that matches in size and components, I'd you'll find them within 10% at the base configurations
22:44.51brlcadpoolio: I'd be surprised if it were upgradeable beyond you cracking it open for memory and HD upgrades
22:45.28brlcadand maybe not even that easily if it's using the ultra tiny drives that the ipods/iphones uses
22:45.36pooliobrlcad: It doesn't have upgradeable memory, so I'm guessing the hd isn't :\
22:45.45poolioAnd yes it is, 1.8"
22:46.10brlcadah, then yeah.. you might find the drive if you hunt, but you might have to break a soldier lead to install it
22:46.31brlcadmaybe a pin connector if you're lucky
22:46.36poolioThe 80gb is 4200rpm, but I'm not going to shell out 1000 for a SSD.
22:46.48brlcadyeah, that's what I was saying
22:46.54brlcadthe price of SSD's are just still expensive
22:47.03pooliobrlcad: I probably wouldn't bother then. It seems like a machine that's prone to breaking and I'd definitely be getting applecare. Wouldn't want to void the warranty
22:47.05brlcadI mean, 1k for that drive is actually a pretty damn good deal
22:47.13brlcadthat's the cheapest I've seen for that size
22:47.21brlcadnewegg has one at around 1.5k
22:47.22poolioI guess, but the difference between 2k and 3k is a lot.
22:47.55poolioAnd they are going to have to drop in price in the very near future. I mean look at flash drives, 16mb ones use to be like $50
22:48.09brlcadi'd suggest getting applecare no matter the product.. apple's support is pretty fantastic, one of the top-rated year over year
22:48.23brlcadyeah, but that's mb :)
22:48.52brlcadthe gb ssd's will come down quickly .. probably in half within 8 months
22:49.21brlcadi see that laptop as a great mobile platform for when you already have a really powerful home system in place
22:49.48brlcadit's designed around access to other wireless services being around
22:50.09brlcadHD's, media/content, optical drives
22:56.27PrezKennedyWindows is stupid
22:56.53``Erikit has a lot of ancient "single machine just to drive a printer" still left in it
22:57.49``Eriklater, kids
23:04.54pooliohrmph. The footprint compared with the pro is pretty lame. If only they'd gone with a thin bezel...
23:12.12brlcadfootprint of?
23:14.32pooliothe macbook air
23:14.47pooliohttp://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/01/aircomp02.jpg
23:20.23brlcaddefinitely stylish
23:20.51brlcadmakes the MBP look kinda plain .. remember it used to be the sexy beast when it came out
23:21.42brlcadhum, nice trackpad
23:28.57poolioI mean there are a ton of pros and cons. One USB port is pretty ridiculous. And because the superdrive has special something or other, you can't plug it into a USB hub. So you can't superdrive+other devices.
23:39.17louipclol everyone's talking about the macbook air
23:41.52poolioWell, it's what I've been waiting 2 months for..
23:48.14brlcad:)
23:51.08brlcadthe apple tv actually is slightly more interesting to me now with the upgrade, one more way to stick it to comcast .. the pricepoint is so close
23:51.59pooliopeople are saying the air is going the way of the apple tv / cube :)
23:52.03brlcadthough the new rental fees are a bit absurd (about as absurd as their non-hd movie prices)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080116

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080116

00:20.43brlcadapple tv is a bit before it's time .. most folks don't have their video collections digital yet or an easy means to get them that way
00:42.22*** join/#brlcad vedge (i=vedge@vedge.org)
02:16.10brlcadso the ohloh stats seem to match within reason
02:16.32brlcadthere are discrepancies in the way SVN and CVS repositories are managed/tracked
02:17.15brlcadthe biggest probably being that ohloh considers property changes as code changes, which increased our overall stats a couple percent
02:17.39brlcadlooks like they properly find our bsd files now though, that's nice
02:17.52brlcadcan't imagine why that failed with CVS, but it's working now
02:18.57brlcadohloh is also better at collapsing CVS commits into one atomic commit transaction than cvs2svn, which accounts for about 1039 additional commits
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04:39.17brlcad~cadsvn
04:39.18ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
04:58.15Twingyneat
06:29.08CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29951 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: (log message trimmed)
06:29.08CIA-30BRL-CAD: new example footer using c-file-style so that the style is encouraged more
06:29.08CIA-30BRL-CAD: strictly. setting the c-file-style effectly causes a c-set-style to get invoked
06:29.08CIA-30BRL-CAD: for that buffer, with the predefined 'stroustrup' style most closely matching
06:29.08CIA-30BRL-CAD: our convention (it's basically 'k&r' with 4-char indents), this fixes the
06:29.11CIA-30BRL-CAD: braindead default 'gnu' style emacs uses that indents the c-offsets-alist
06:29.13CIA-30BRL-CAD: substatement-open style parameter a level (i.e., open brace curlies are indented
06:35.13CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29952 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/footer.sh: add a c-file-style to the C files and remove their corresponding c-basic-offset lines. can't override the c-basic-offset if using a style, not that we want/need to with stroustrup since it matches our offset
06:38.37CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29953 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: (log message trimmed)
06:38.37CIA-30BRL-CAD: include the list of remaining mged tasks for this release and the next,
06:38.37CIA-30BRL-CAD: including the questions and comments mentioned at the last arl/brl-cad
06:38.37CIA-30BRL-CAD: configuration control board meeting. immediate tasks include fixing mged i/o on
06:38.38CIA-30BRL-CAD: puts/gets; text flooding; disabling mged auto-backgrounding; and fixing
06:38.40CIA-30BRL-CAD: tclConfig.sh problems. next are verifying/testing pix-fb -p, clone mirroring,
06:38.42CIA-30BRL-CAD: dbconcat with a prefix, and pushing primitives. longer term is windows smp
06:41.01CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29954 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: change the ordering so the c-file-style is last
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07:07.11CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29955 10/brlcad/trunk/ (1302 files in 68 dirs):
07:07.11CIA-30BRL-CAD: set a c-file-style globally in the local variables footer, setting it to the
07:07.11CIA-30BRL-CAD: built-in 'stroustrup' style. that style is basically the 'k&r' style with
07:07.11CIA-30BRL-CAD: 4-char indents (otherwise emacs' 'k&r' style has 5-char indents), which matches
07:07.11CIA-30BRL-CAD: our convention. you can't specify c-basic-offset when you used c-file-style
07:07.13CIA-30BRL-CAD: apparently (at least as of emacs 21.2.1) but conveniently the 'stroustrup' style
07:07.15CIA-30BRL-CAD: matches so we don't have to care.
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10:32.30Z80-Boybrlcad: how did they model the Cern od Hubble Telescope when if I model Ronja, it becomes unusably slow?
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13:52.49``Erik"unusuably slow"?
14:04.39Z80-BoyYeah
14:04.45Z80-BoyA redraw in mged takes 30 seconds or so
14:05.57``Erikon ronja? O.o wow, are you using a 386 or something? :D
14:06.11``ErikI've seen it take 30 seconds on a redraw, but that was on a bot with literally millions of triangles
14:09.40Z80-BoyNo Pentium M 1.5GHz and 0.5GiB RAM
14:10.44Z80-Boyronja.twibright.com/3d/comparison.g
14:10.49Z80-Boyand type "B comparison"
14:11.48Z80-BoyIn multipane mode
14:12.35Z80-BoyAnd t's running on *LOCAL* X of course
14:29.46CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29956 10/brlcad/trunk/src/liborle/rle.c: cleanup and restructure, apply style, remove decls
14:30.09``Erikbrlcad, jlo is trying ot get a hold of you
14:30.36brlcadk
14:36.08CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29957 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac:
14:36.09CIA-30BRL-CAD: only look for the tclConfig.sh and tkConfig.sh files if we're not building tcl
14:36.09CIA-30BRL-CAD: or tk and need to load the config, otherwise having TCL_BIN_DIR set isn't too
14:36.09CIA-30BRL-CAD: useful (the --with/--without flags are still available). this should fix the
14:36.09CIA-30BRL-CAD: configure exit being encountered on some systems when a system tcl/tk isn't
14:36.11CIA-30BRL-CAD: already installed (i.e., the WARNING: Can't find Tcl configuration definitions
14:36.13CIA-30BRL-CAD: 'error')
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15:52.12brlcadahh
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15:59.18tarzeauZ80-Boy: hey pitchotron has a broken download link
15:59.35tarzeauoh wait it works now
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16:15.24poolioHmm
16:15.43poolioAnyone know a 5 byte long string seperated by '.' would be? Like an IP but one more, and it's not IPv5 hah
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17:01.19alex_jonipoolio: how many bytes in each term? only one?
17:04.53poolioyeah
17:05.00poolioI think I've got it now, GPS coordinates in a bizarre format :P
17:05.06alex_joniheh
17:17.36*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54876CDC.dip.t-dialin.net)
17:18.29alex_jonipoolio: now you had me read the wikipedia GPS article :)
17:20.05alex_joniI had no idea they adapt the clocks in the GPS satellites based on Einsteins theory of relativity
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18:25.48``Erikso, uh, gps time is relative? O.o
18:25.58``Erik</badpun>
18:26.17CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29958 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/isst/observer/: you have to delete the directories too when they're empty with svn since they're tracked entities (you can svn rm an entire subdir as one-operation)
18:26.43CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29959 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: remove the src/adrt/isst/observer/Makefile entry since the dir is empty/gone
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20:53.46brlcadah, sgi cube script updated and renders now
21:03.24CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29960 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (Makefile.am sgi.sh):
21:03.24CIA-30BRL-CAD: add an example of creating geometry using basic shell scripting. the example
21:03.24CIA-30BRL-CAD: shows several ways for passing modeling commands to mged, creates the .g
21:03.25CIA-30BRL-CAD: geometry file, sets material properties, and renders the model to an image.
21:03.25CIA-30BRL-CAD: don't install it, just an example.
21:05.39CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r29961 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ged.c: Hack to get "puts" working on Windows. Still need to look at this on the other platforms.
21:07.43CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r29962 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (dm-X.c dm-ogl.c dm-tk.c dm-wgl.c): if_name not getting properly terminated (i.e. not eos)
21:19.01CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29963 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/sgi.sh: keep a png
21:39.11CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r29964 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_metaball.c: Improve text display routines to provide more informative render method information as well as "good" when needed. Add functions to translate between a numeric method ID and a human readable string. Minor format cleanup.
21:46.48CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r29965 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_metaball.c: Wrapper for multiple normal methods added. Isopotential normals fixed with the help of Ed.
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21:57.54CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29966 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/sgi.sh: match the cube rendering more closely lining up the center better, adding a little bit of perspective, and using a tube radius that better approximates. keep the png as sgi.png..
23:00.19brlcadargh, I went to upload a big image and it warned that it was big, so I scaled it down and uploaded it.  Now it says "No higher resolution available" on the small one..
23:02.22*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080117

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080117

00:34.53brlcadhttp://my.brlcad.org/wiki/SGI_Cube
00:40.12archivisthmm on my screen black cat in a coal hole
00:40.58brlcadwhat is?
00:41.30brlcadthe whole page, just the image?
00:41.48brlcadthat png should have gamma correction
00:42.16archivistthe image,
00:43.02louipcnice
00:57.22CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29967 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/sgi.sh: add the same comments that were used for the wiki page so that it better explains all steps being taken
02:34.54CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r29968 10/brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/g_diff.c: fixed two bugs. One was incorrect use of strcmp. Second was not counting some differences found. Fixes bug #1865987
02:50.08CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03louipc * r29969 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/archlinux/PKGBUILD.in:
02:50.08CIA-30BRL-CAD: Install script actually shouldn't be in sources.
02:50.08CIA-30BRL-CAD: No need to specify source tarball since the build scripts are included in the dist.
02:54.53*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
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05:25.04brlcadwoot
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14:11.02b0efdo you need proe to convert proe files in brlcad?
15:41.18MinuteElectronbrlcad: On the wiki? If so I'll tweak some settings to make images with a large file size (that is less than the PHP limit) upload without a warning and maybe you could install ImageMagick which I can then enable in MediaWiki and has better performance than GD?
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18:38.32brlcadb0ef: yes, you do -- we have a pro/e plugin that you run from within pro/e
18:39.01yukonbobhello, cadheads
18:39.34brlcadotherwise we'd have to link against granite and that's no fun
18:39.52brlcadhowdy yukonbob
18:41.06brlcadMinuteElectron: imagemagick is already installed though gd's been fine so far too
18:41.44brlcadthe warning was anything over 150kb i believe .. I'd probably up that to 1mb
18:42.10brlcadnot too unreasonable for a CAD site to host images/screenshots/renderings that large
18:42.24brlcadjust crazy to use them that big embedded in pages :)
18:43.17b0efbrlcad: right, the problem I have is that the openmoko team, which designs a cell phone, is releasing their files on the cell phone case, which are done in proe; what format do you think we should request from them?
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18:43.43brlcaddon't know if I mentioned it, but I noticed that IE6 is looking great on the header now .. except for the menu.  you can't see the text -- flashes up and then is either behind the green or not displayed
18:44.10brlcadthe menu links are still there and active, so I think the green is just in front of the text somehow
18:44.33Z80-Boybrlcad: BRL-CAD has some facility to calculate a movement of a 4-wheeled vehicle
18:44.56Z80-BoyIs it possible to use it to calculate a movement of a straight riding skateboard over a deformed terrain?
18:45.06brlcadb0ef: I'd say the original pro/e files as well as an iges, step, dxf, and stl export :)
18:45.55b0efbrlcad: why all of them?, and is DXF able to hold all the data?
18:46.39brlcadZ80-Boy: yeah, but it's really hard to use frankly .. some of the animation tools (that may or may not still work, written 15 years ago) will calculation movements and interpolate along specified paths, or interpolate between positions
18:46.53brlcaddxf and stl wouldn't be faithful
18:47.13Z80-BoyI'm just trying to figure out The Central Theorem of Skateboarding
18:47.35Z80-BoySeems like the forward/backward error signal is actually the angular acceleration of the skateboard
18:47.57Z80-Boyone source of this is when the curvature changes
18:48.17Z80-Boythen assuming the speed doesn't change, the rate of turn (angular speed also changes)
18:48.39b0efsomeone else to help?; is iges able to hold all the proe info and does brlcad import iges well?
18:49.00Z80-BoyAnother is when you are riding uphill/downhill and the pavement is curved, then the skateboard is experiencing a slowdown/speedup from gravity and that translates into an angular acceleration
18:52.28Z80-BoyShould be possible to shape a halfpipe so that at a certain speed, these two effects would completely cancel out...
19:01.13CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29973 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libwdb/brep_stub.c: add trailing newline
19:02.41CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29974 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: turn brep stuff back on
19:05.27``ErikO.o
19:35.00CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29975 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/brep_simple.cpp: clarify the maybe comment .. and get rid of the conditional brep_simple.g creation -- always create the .g file
19:55.35CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29976 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/brep_simple.cpp: make sure we could make the twisted cube before calling mk_brep
20:46.57MinuteElectronbrlcad: Upload warning size increased, sorry about the problems with the corners not being fixed (I know it is the last thing left) - I've been trying various solutions, but the bugs are still very odd and I've only been able to fins a fix for the bottom right corners of the sidebar blocks so far. I'll continue to look into it however.
20:47.02MinuteElectron*find
21:25.56*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177680557.dsl.bell.ca)
21:26.57IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/frame.png    <---- framebuffer active :)
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22:52.06brlcadb0ef: iges is usually pretty faithful and preserving..  but it's also a generalized container format in which you can store a variety of representations
22:52.23brlcadthat's why I mentioned just having them provide several conversions
22:52.32brlcadso you can see what works best
22:53.59brlcadthere is an iges-g that you can try out, it has like three or four different formats it supports, one being nurbs, another being general 3D brep, another being tessellated solids, iirc
23:17.38CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r29977 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/temp.c: Closing a file descriptor after an fclose breaks on windows.
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23:21.09CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r29978 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/tedit.c: Make the default editor for windows wordpad. When writing out the primitives on windows use crlf. Lastly, on windows change the return value to 1 in editit().
23:24.21brlcadstarseeker: having fun tomorrow, eh? :)
23:32.02starseekerbrlcad:  Hehe
23:32.17starseekerbrlcad:  Trying to fill out the #@$@ paperwork for the security form
23:36.33brlcadgathered as much
23:36.45brlcadnot many events in life make you go dig up ones life history
23:50.12starseekerHaving to contact people I haven't talked with in years...
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080118

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080118

00:19.51CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r29979 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/tedit.c: ted on an arb now displays the expected vertices
00:20.06brlcadjohn rocks
00:31.11CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r29980 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_arb.c: added some minimal comments to rt_arb_get_cgtype
00:49.30CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r29981 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/tedit.c: oops, sorry Bob, I stomped on one of your changes
01:05.22starseekerbrlcad?
01:10.26brlcadhm?
01:17.39starseekerWhen should I be at QRI tomorrow?
03:21.59louipcwhat would that be for?
03:25.23CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29982 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/ (72 files in 19 dirs): set svn:executable on all scripts (particularly so ./autogen.sh will work on checkout)
03:55.39starseekerlouipc:  A new form of uselessly and pointlessly expensive computer case
03:56.03louipcnice
03:56.42starseekerI can see it now - a new PC being marketed as the "Stealth Bomber" gaming pc
03:58.51poolioOoo. Macbook Air + stealth technology = manilla envelope
03:59.29louipchahaa
03:59.42starseekerHeh - there was speculation on slashdot as to what markup Apple would be charging for THIS form of black...
04:00.55starseekerAny excuse to bulk produce nanotubes sounds good to me - the sooner they figure out how to do miles long coherent crystals of them the sooner we can take an elevator ride into space ;-)
04:30.12CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29983 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: CVS is no more, update the docs for SVN
05:32.07*** join/#brlcad openartist (n=openarti@cpe-69-204-131-93.nycap.res.rr.com)
05:32.57openartistI'm having issues installing brl-cad on os x, after install nothing appears in the applications folder, is there someone who can help me trouble shoot?
05:39.42brlcadhello openartist
05:39.54openartisthi
05:39.57brlcadBRL-CAD installs into /usr/brlcad
05:40.07brlcadit's a suite of tools, not a single app, so there's nothing in the apps dir
05:40.32openartistah
05:40.40brlcadthere are a couple gui apps that we could put into the apps dir, but it's not really worth it until we properly decouple from x11
05:41.31brlcadthe easiest way to get started is to run x11 (in your apps/utilities folder) and in the xterm window run /usr/brlcad/bin/mged -f
05:41.41openartisti don't know why though I don't find anything in any directory
05:41.55brlcadbecause /usr is a 'hidden' directory to Finder
05:42.04openartistah
05:42.05openartistgot it
05:42.07brlcadyou can't get to it through the finder, only on the command line by default
05:42.22brlcadunless you "unhide" /usr (which I wouldn't recommend unless you know linux/unix)
05:42.26openartistthanks, I feel like a total noob
05:43.15brlcadno problem
05:43.34brlcadthere are a ton more apps that may be of interest, and a lot of docs and tutorials on the website
05:43.42brlcadincluding lots of mged docs
05:43.50openartisti don't know if I just overlooked something but it would be helpful if that was made explicit somewhere for mac users
05:44.09brlcadit's explicit in the installer :)
05:44.17openartistoh really?
05:44.24openartisti didn't see it
05:44.26brlcadyeah.. big bold letters :)
05:44.32openartistilol
05:44.49openartistwell I guess I just lost all credibility
05:45.06brlcadnah, everyone gets used to ignoring those readme statements
05:45.38openartistisn't that true
05:45.49brlcadthe fix really is to decouple from X11 and let users drag-and-drop the install to whereever you want, but we're not there yet
05:45.50openartistso I have the xterm open
05:46.02PrezKennedyi got used to the README being pretty much useless for most apps
05:46.07openartistwhat's the command to run an application?
05:46.42openartistyeah, sometimes I would write something else instead of readme knowing that would be sure to get it ignored
05:46.54brlcad/usr/brlcad/bin/mged -f
05:47.24brlcadif you want to see an example, you could run: /usr/brlcad/bin/mged -f /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.10.4/db/havoc.g
05:48.42brlcadthen in mged, run the Tools -> Geometry Browser, double-click havoc
05:49.08brlcadFile -> Raytrace Control Panel -> Raytrace to render the view
05:49.43brlcadyou won't get very far exploring without going through the tutorial series.. it's pretty much *necessary*
05:50.28openartist<trying>
05:50.54openartistso I see a blue screen
05:50.58openartistgoing to tools
05:51.16openartistclicking on havoc open up a folder
05:52.38openartistokay
05:52.59openartistdo you use brl regularly?
05:53.04openartistprofessionally?
05:57.13brlcadyes
05:57.49brlcadthere's a whole team of people that do in the US Govt
05:58.16brlcadand teams throughout industry
05:59.03PrezKennedyany in the construction industry?
05:59.32brlcadthere was a construction company down in florida that was using brl-cad to design houses
06:09.04CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29984 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Bob implemented support for MGED classic mode on Windows, adding a hack that goes through tcl i/o routines (i.e. doesn't use the same read/write calls as elsewhere)
06:18.15CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29985 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Bob fixed a bug in mged's rcc-cap command where using the 't' option didn't work due to curlie braces that wrapped a tcl var going to vadd2. removed the curlies and it now works.
06:29.09CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29986 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: erik improved the metaball rendering with the addition of a blobbyness/gooeyness factor that can be set. also added improved text display routines.
06:29.51CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29987 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: erik and ed fixed a bug in the calculation of normals for metaballs
06:35.24CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29988 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
06:35.24CIA-31BRL-CAD: John fixed a bug in g_diff where differences between objects were getting missed
06:35.24CIA-31BRL-CAD: due to the command not keeping track of the count of differences that had
06:35.24CIA-31BRL-CAD: accummulated up to that point. there was also an incorrect strcmp call that had
06:35.24CIA-31BRL-CAD: the wrong truth value getting tested. this fixes a bug reported by David Loman
06:35.26CIA-31BRL-CAD: ([ 1865987 ] g_diff fails to see BoT Orientation change)
06:45.25CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29989 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
06:45.25CIA-31BRL-CAD: bob improved the mged ted command on windows, making the files being written out
06:45.25CIA-31BRL-CAD: actually use windows line terminators so they don't wrap around as one line. he
06:45.25CIA-31BRL-CAD: also made wordpad the default editor instead of notepad (user can still
06:45.25CIA-31BRL-CAD: override) -- this responds to requests for functional text edit support on
06:45.28CIA-31BRL-CAD: windows from several bnd modelers
06:51.55CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29990 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
06:51.55CIA-31BRL-CAD: John Anderson improved the way the ted command in mged deals with ARBs that are
06:51.55CIA-31BRL-CAD: less than ARB8s (e.g. an ARB6) .. instead of duplicating the points and
06:51.55CIA-31BRL-CAD: requiring users to edit the duplications, only present them with the # points
06:51.55CIA-31BRL-CAD: for their ARB#. this fixes a bug report submitted by karel/clock3 where there
06:51.58CIA-31BRL-CAD: was unexpected behavior that the edits where intenional and that the user had to
06:52.00CIA-31BRL-CAD: edit the duplicates ([ 1842596 ] ted on arbn6 doesn't change vertices)
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12:52.03b0efbrlcad: right, I'll request IGES-G, then, but am I able to extract what I need in brlcad?
12:52.35b0efbrlcad: along with the original proe, of course
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16:20.15pooliobrlcad: unrelated to brlcad question :) on mbo, when I resize my local terminal, the console gets all garbled. Any idea?
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19:28.43prasad_http://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/94/1
19:45.33CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29991 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libwdb/brep.cpp:
19:45.33CIA-31BRL-CAD: need a copy of the users brep here because wdb_export will free the brep when
19:45.33CIA-31BRL-CAD: it's done with it. mk_brep doesn't need to claim the brep, so we can let
19:45.33CIA-31BRL-CAD: callers keep using that brep with mods for future mk_brep() calls (with a
19:45.33CIA-31BRL-CAD: different name)
19:47.46CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29992 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (brep_cube.cpp brep_simple.cpp):
19:47.46CIA-31BRL-CAD: the two lines aren't needed, and the edge orientations do seem to make sense so
19:47.46CIA-31BRL-CAD: remove the XXX ???'s. since mk_brep changed, we need to delete the brep
19:47.46CIA-31BRL-CAD: ourselves (which is good because we had to new it in the first place)
19:49.48CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29993 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_brep.cpp:
19:49.48CIA-31BRL-CAD: provide an initial implementation of the describe command that uses the ON
19:49.48CIA-31BRL-CAD: Dump() call for describing arbitrary breps consistently. ... so nice to be able
19:49.48CIA-31BRL-CAD: to use mid-scope decls.. *sigh*. also remove the m_object_table count debug
19:49.48CIA-31BRL-CAD: statement.
19:51.53CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29994 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (Makefile.am breplicator.cpp): add a new breplicator proc-db test app for creating a variety of brep geometry. not yet complete but it will make a brep with some points in it, saving out to a .g file. next step, create a variety of arbs.
20:00.45CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29995 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_nurb.c: call it a NURBS solid
20:01.19CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29996 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: give the initial describe line a more informative label of BREP object.
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21:40.04yukonbobhello, cadheads
21:41.25illethalGood day
21:47.15illethalSo are all of you math-whizes?
21:47.54yukonbobno :)
21:48.16illethalDon't you have to be one to use BRL-CAD?
21:48.21yukonbob(depending on definition of "whiz")
21:49.04yukonbobillethal: if you've got a good imagination (ie: can imagine CSG concepts) and some basic math skills you can make stuff...
21:49.29illethalGood.
21:49.43yukonbobof course, the more resources you (personally) bring to the table, the more interesting your work can be...
21:49.44illethal'Cause I suck at math =P
21:49.54yukonbobillethal: are you a programmer?
21:50.01illethalNope.
21:50.06illethalI'm more or less an artist.
21:50.40yukonbobdigital or "analogue"?
21:50.46illethalBoth
21:50.47illethalHaha
21:51.15illethal3D, music, 2D graphic design, sculpting and all that other crap =P
21:52.24yukonbobah -- /me remembers -- you've been hanging out here for a while -- you should just jump in a try it out ;)
21:52.43illethalYeah I was playing with archer not too long ago.
21:52.50illethalCan't really do nothing but make cones and cubes.
21:53.04illethalhttp://micah.noobgrinder.com/3d/deathplow.jpg
21:53.10illethalThis is what I'm working on in Maya as of the moment
21:53.36yukonbobthough part (a lot) of the strength of brlcad is it's analysis tools -- assuming you're more interested in "just" getting images to screen, you might also want to check out POVRay
21:53.55illethalOh yeah
21:54.00illethalPOVRay was the first 3D prog I've ever used.
21:54.09illethalNever made anything with it.
21:54.11illethalBut it was free =P
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23:25.47CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29997 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: remove the first line (ON_Brep:) of the description
23:27.24CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29998 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/breplicator.cpp: create vertices, curves, and edges for the test cube
23:28.06CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r29999 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/breplicator.cpp: use SMALL_FASTF instead of VDIVIDE_TOL
23:43.33CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30000 10/brlcad/trunk/ (10 files in 5 dirs): more cleanup, referencing, and checking for subversion dirs where it used to check for cvs
23:43.48CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30001 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_brep.h: fix typo, s/trin/trim/
23:44.49CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30002 10/brlcad/trunk/Makefile.am: dist-hook is probably busted for finding files not added to the dist, need to update for svn so leave a FIXME comment for now.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080119

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080119

00:03.11*** part/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@static-70-108-244-218.res.east.verizon.net)
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04:39.26iraytraceAnybody know if svn can be used without a server?  What kind of URL is used for the repository in such an instance?
04:39.39iraytraceUm.  make the "remote repository"
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20:57.46CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30003 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: change the IND_ routines to END_ for endian, even thou twas a funny joke
21:05.27CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30004 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/convert.c: change indian to endian
21:20.24yukonbobheh
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23:53.12CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30005 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: comment that bu_exit is intended to replace most printing statements that are merely followed by an exit()
23:53.42CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30006 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (26 files in 8 dirs): bu_bomb cleanup
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080120

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080120

00:12.30CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30007 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: bu_bomb's in the front ends seem to be all properly converted to bu_exit
00:16.58CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30008 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: tclConfig.sh problems should be gone now that it doesn't try to locate those files until it thinks we're not building tcl
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06:20.25yukonbobyou gettting a new job starseeker?
06:21.51starseekerYep
06:22.45starseekerHeaded up Baltimore way
06:23.57yukonbobneato -- what's the gig?
06:24.05yukonbob(and where you moving from?)
06:50.45starseekerMoving from Chesapeake VA
06:51.02starseekerworking with our own brlcad, actually
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13:19.41starseekerthis is it...
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17:09.54CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30009 10/brlcad/trunk/ (965 files in 66 dirs): more ws consistency cleanup with spaces after commas and K&R style consistency distinguishing language constructs (for|while|if|switch) from functions with a space.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080121

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080121

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01:21.55illethalHello.
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02:05.28louipchi
02:05.47illethalfigured out the problem, all is well now
02:06.53louipccool
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03:43.58illethalHello
04:10.11poolioalloo
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13:10.23*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release 7.12.0 coming soon to a desktop near you
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15:52.42MinuteElectronThe cache table in drupal has become corrupted, most likley due to a full disk, reapiring table.
15:53.53brlcadMinuteElectron: thanks ... I've got problems on several sites because of that.. *sigh*
15:54.11brlcadthat was a pretty bad/long time for it to fill up
15:54.26MinuteElectronyeah, too bad
15:55.38MinuteElectronTable, repaied - should there be any further errors tell me and I'll look into them.
15:57.08brlcadthanks MinuteElectron
15:57.15brlcad~MinuteElectron++
15:57.19MinuteElectron:P
15:57.38brlcadreally, thanks
15:57.43brlcadmy blood pressure is still high
15:57.43alex_jonidoes he overflow if we do that too often?
15:57.45MinuteElectronno problem
15:57.47alex_joniMinuteElectron++
15:57.56brlcadhave to prefix it with a ~
15:58.00alex_joni~MinuteElectron++
15:58.02brlcadso it gets ibot's attention
15:58.09brlcad~karma MinuteElectron
15:58.09ibotminuteelectron has karma of 5
15:58.21alex_joni~karma brlcad
15:58.21ibotbrlcad has karma of 1
15:58.25alex_jonioh-oh :)
15:58.25MinuteElectronwow, thanks guys :P
15:58.40MinuteElectronI'm going to restart my computer because I just installed some tools for IE6 development so I can hopefully fix the corner problem.
15:58.40brlcadyeah, it's not really useful for me, but can be fun :)
15:58.56alex_jonibrlcad: do you remember off-hand what bot it is?
15:58.57brlcadalex_joni: my karma is hard-coded/fixed :)
15:59.02brlcad~ibot
15:59.02ibotit has been said that ibot is a blootbot written in perl run by TimRiker on his server. logs on http://ibot.rikers.org/<chan>/ , ibot, jbot, apt are all the same process. It uses sqlite, but mysql or other SQL storage is also supported.
15:59.21alex_joni~brlcad++
15:59.24alex_joni~karma brlcad
15:59.24ibotbrlcad has karma of 1
15:59.27alex_jonidarn
16:00.26brlcad:)
16:00.48brlcadtim hard-coded it to 1 just for fun/spite
16:05.57alex_joniso what does it usually do? except karma :)
16:07.27brlcadyou mean in general?
16:08.02alex_joniyeah
16:08.02MinuteElectronbrlcad: "The MySQL error was: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/tmp/mysql.sock' (2)."
16:08.03brlcadibot serves a lot of useful purposes, the biggest of which is probably it's extensive factoid database (utterly massive compared to most)
16:08.04ibotbrlcad: what are you talking about?
16:08.10brlcadMinuteElectron: yeah, I'm working on it
16:08.16MinuteElectronok, thanks
16:09.11brlcadback up
16:09.19MinuteElectronthanks
16:09.20brlcadi'd stop'd it
16:09.37brlcadi've got several corrupted sites to deal with atm
16:10.20MinuteElectronahh, ok
16:22.15brlcadheh
16:22.19brlcadapache just reset
16:22.38brlcadthe sites that still can't get to mysql lock up apache, and after about 20 or so lockups, apache restarts
16:23.18MinuteElectronahh, that is unfourtunate - I'll do some other work while the instabilities are fixed and go back to this in a few minutes.
16:23.27brlcadso you'll probably get a "connection lost" or other random error once every few minutes .. but should work if you just retry
16:23.34brlcadi'll let you know when it should be good
16:23.49MinuteElectronok, thank you
16:58.11yukonbob~karma yukonbob
16:58.11ibotyukonbob has karma of 1
17:00.07brlcadMinuteElectron: all better now
17:00.16brlcad~yukonbob++
17:00.18brlcadhowdy
17:01.10yukonbobgoodmorning brlcad :)
17:02.40brlcadnot a good one, but morning to you too! :)
17:03.01yukonbob:P -- it's alright for me so far...
17:03.07brlcadyeah, hopefully to do great things :)
17:03.23yukonbobmathy stuff?
17:03.25brlcadit was alright for me too.. until I checked my e-mail and logs
17:03.40yukonbobshit->fan?
17:03.42sunbleachbrlcad: what about me?
17:03.48brlcadthe server's disks filled up last night .. so all went to hell while I was sleeping
17:03.53yukonbob:P
17:04.29brlcadmostly due to brl-cad's massive cvs2svn dumpfile and cvsroot backups that were still in place
17:04.51brlcadbut took down mysql and httpd services for most sites on the box
17:05.08brlcadcorrupted several mysql db's that had to be repaired
17:05.10MinuteElectronbrlcad: cool
17:05.24yukonbobah -- do those dumpfile/backups need to stay online for review or reference?
17:05.38brlcadi'd left them "just in case" I needed to run it one more time
17:05.55yukonbob~mysql--
17:05.56brlcadand yeah, I was still using them too
17:06.13yukonbob~karma mysql
17:06.13ibotmysql has karma of -1
17:06.14brlcadworking with the cvs2svn devs to look into some of the things that went wrong
17:06.36yukonbobnice
17:06.41brlcadalready figured one of our problems out.. they changed the behavior of the auto-props file
17:06.51brlcadthat's what caused the bad juju on the svn:executable
17:07.03yukonbobre: binary encoding and +x
17:07.04yukonbob?
17:07.13brlcadnot binary encoding, but the +x
17:07.17brlcadyes
17:07.39yukonbobOpensource works, David. Opensource works, David.
17:07.40brlcadbinary coding was the mime-type, already fixed that (that was my/apache's fault)
17:08.05brlcadbut the exec bit was my/cvs2svn's fault
17:09.16brlcadthey changed the behavior of the auto-props file -- if svn sees svn:executable in your auto-props.. it means make sure that file type is +x .. but cvs2svn folks changed it to mean exactly the opposite because they needed a way to forcibly unset +x
17:09.46brlcadI suggested seeing !svn:executable would probably be better than changing from svn's behavior
17:10.18sunbleachbrlcad: any work for me there?
17:10.51yukonbobseems to have been _lots_ of cruft-cleaning and repairs done in development over last while -- is there a sched for next release?
17:11.30sunbleachbrlcad: I wonder if you got my ":(
17:11.34sunbleach" smiley on the query
17:11.41sunbleachBecause onb freenode the queries sometimes don't work
17:12.40yukonbobsunbleach: re: your animation -- do you have pubished notes or a blog, etc. re: the process you took to make it?
17:13.03sunbleachyukonbob: no but it's compiled through a makefile
17:13.10sunbleachso if you read the makefiles you see how it's made
17:13.11yukonbobsmart
17:13.28sunbleachI think full-feature movies should also be done with a makefile
17:13.47sunbleachSo if at the end they wouldn't like the main character they would just replace the actor and type "make"
17:13.51sunbleachAnd go for a coffee.
17:13.56brlcadsunbleach: I got your :( and hopefully you got my response
17:14.15yukonbob*it's just so much nicer typing "make" than remembering _any_ number of incatations...
17:14.32brlcadyou should/could write up the animation how-to on the wiki
17:14.44yukonbob^--- ++
17:14.55sunbleachBut it's a dumb animation
17:15.05sunbleacha shell script countsm from 0 to 359 and calls rt with different azimuth
17:17.44MinuteElectronThe corners problems with the sidebar have been fixed on the Drupal, but not MediaWiki (yet, just need to port some of the code over).
17:18.16brlcadsunbleach: doesn't matter what the animation is, it's having *simple* instructions and steps for creating an animation
17:18.31sunbleachOh
17:18.53brlcadlike how I wrote up instructions for making the sgi cube
17:18.54brlcadhttp://my.brlcad.org/wiki/SGI_Cube
17:18.59sunbleachHow to create a simple animation from BRL-CAD with a complicated custom-written shell script ;-)
17:19.13brlcadit's not that it was hard at all for me, took just a few min .. but there are details in there that hardly anyone knows about
17:19.22brlcadand it's a nice simple tutorial on scripting with brl-cad
17:19.39yukonbobsunbleach: ;) -- we'll wikify it into simplicity
17:19.46brlcadsimplify it, reduce the steps to the essential
17:20.50sunbleachlooks complicated to me ;-)
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17:21.05sunbleachmagical mged scripting commands
17:21.11sunbleachbut at least I could look them up in the man
17:22.23brlcadmost everything I used is considered really *old school* brl-cad
17:22.44sunbleachIt's the only really useful stuff
17:22.46brlcadthey're basics that most all modelers know with maybe the exception of the cook-torrence shader I used
17:23.32brlcadotherwise 2/3rds of it is the procedural scripting that generates the cube
17:23.49sunbleachHere is the script for the animations with matte channel http://ronja.twibright.com/utils/rt_script
17:24.34brlcadthat is nice and short
17:24.43sunbleachActually not
17:24.50sunbleachIt mattes the colours and edges together
17:24.55sunbleachThe result is matted once more
17:25.55sunbleachBut the C program is nonportable
17:26.08sunbleachassumes that the double zero is all zeroes on the architecture
17:26.14sunbleachWhich I don't know if it's guaranteed
17:26.22sunbleachCan be some weird architecture where double zero is not all zeroes
17:26.34sunbleachOr what if the thing produces negative zero? No guarantee either
17:26.44brlcad"double zero"?
17:26.50sunbleachbrlcad: is there a guarantee that rt never produces negative zeroes if the pixel hits infinity
17:26.55sunbleachzero in the double precision
17:27.39sunbleachHere is the program that makes the background http://ronja.twibright.com/utils/double_mask.c
17:27.50brlcadwhere do you write out doubles?
17:28.12sunbleachI read them in
17:28.24sunbleachIn the "network" format that the rt produces
17:28.34sunbleachWhich is the root cause of the pain in the ass
17:28.52brlcadi'm not seeing where you tell that to rt though?
17:28.55sunbleachWhat happens in double if I compare negative zero with positive zero?
17:28.59sunbleachDo I get equality or not?
17:29.25brlcadyour rtopts are bgcolor size and ambient light
17:30.55sunbleachOh that script was for stills
17:31.00sunbleachThis one is for animation: http://ronja.twibright.com/utils/render_animation
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17:31.30sunbleachfixed_root=`echo "$1" | sed -e 's/\\//\\\\\\//g;s/\\./\\\\./g'` &&
17:31.52brlcadas for +0 == -0 I believe most implementations will consider them equal though I don't think C/C++ have anything to say about it
17:31.56brlcadimplementation defined
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17:32.37sunbleachWhat I would prefer would be one byte telling if the pixel is model or infinity.
17:33.01sunbleachFloating point numbers turn a digital computer into an analogue one
17:33.24sunbleachLike the code printf("%ld",a); printf("%ld",a); printed two different numbers for me
17:33.40sunbleachSo if I load a zero and then compare it it can already be something slightly different
17:33.48sunbleachBecause IEEE guarantees nothing
17:34.44sunbleachAnd btw I think the rt should generate +Inf and not zero
17:35.23brlcadmm, that it could do with -d1
17:35.35brlcadjust not without it obviously
17:36.11brlcadthat's what that default/reserved 0/0/1 is for in a way
17:36.15brlcadfor non-doubles
17:36.26sunbleachBut that's in-band signalling and that's bad
17:36.37sunbleachIt corrupts the picture
17:36.53sunbleachIf your model hits the right colour it cannot be expressed and a deviated colour has to be emitted
17:37.05sunbleach-> error signal is intentionally mixed in -> crap
17:37.09brlcadsure
17:37.16brlcadbut then you only have three channels
17:37.22brlcad24 bits of data
17:37.33brlcadso what do you do, without increasing the number of bits
17:37.41sunbleachyou cannot do it
17:37.41brlcadin practice, its not a problem
17:37.46sunbleachThe channel is already occupied
17:38.00brlcadexactly, so it does the best it can without changing the requirements
17:38.04sunbleachin a Microsoft-style practice
17:38.30sunbleachit's a kludge. A scotchtape solution.
17:38.47brlcadactually, it was rather carefully designed that way
17:39.07sunbleachBy who?
17:39.15sunbleachIt's bad style
17:39.18brlcadas you said it yourself, you cannot do it otherwise without increasing the number of bits
17:39.27brlcadyou obviously don't like it, that's your right :)
17:40.04sunbleachIt's like this http://www.getreligion.org/wp-content/photos/60324190_1678a0a1d8_o.jpg
17:40.11brlcadbut the tradeoff would be no background distinction by default, or another output channel (which was pretty darn impossible back when it was implemented)
17:40.15sunbleachYeah I obviously don't like it :)
17:43.37brlcadwhat I'd really like is a full alpha transparency channel
17:43.54brlcadthat's really what's needed, then all background could be properly represented
17:44.16sunbleachyes
17:44.18brlcadcouldn't do that 15 years ago, and still can't with some hardware, but just about everything can handle it these days
17:44.24sunbleachbut wouldn't express the hit distance of course
17:45.51sunbleachIf you use more rays per pixel it could generate intermediate alpha values
17:45.58brlcad-d already does that
17:46.17brlcadjust needs the tweak for a miss
17:46.30brlcadyou should fix it :)
17:46.34sunbleachBut doesn't it break the paralellism?
17:46.57sunbleachI could screw it up and think I've fixed it if I had time ;-)
17:46.57brlcadhuh?
17:47.43brlcadyeah, with an alpha channel and -H hypersampling turned on, you could get beautiful antialiased alpha values on the edges
17:47.46sunbleachcan't different rays of the same pixel get scheduled to different CPUs or so?
17:48.01brlcadhypersampling already does that
17:48.18brlcadi was talking about fixing -d to recognize a miss and have it report +Inf
17:48.32brlcadthat should be pretty simple
17:48.34sunbleachbut maybe the code somewhere secretly assumes only the first 3 bytes are added
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17:49.14brlcadfirst 3 bytes .. added .. hm?
17:49.24sunbleachor averaged
17:49.31brlcadspeculation either way, but the -d code just reports the hit-dist
17:49.36brlcadprobably just reports 0 for miss
17:49.43sunbleachwhat does -d report with antialiasing?
17:49.45brlcadit knows when it's a miss
17:49.46sunbleachAverage distance?
17:50.00sunbleachand on the edge?
17:50.27brlcadactually I don't know what -d does if you try to use it with hypersample turned on
17:51.33MinuteElectronOk, all stylistic bugs fixed.
17:51.42brlcadhypersample as it is doesn't do antialiasing, just averages the rays that do hit if the first ray hits iirc
17:51.58brlcadsomething that could be improved either way, I've never liked -H without supersampling
17:52.15brlcadMinuteElectron: seriously?!
17:52.17brlcadawesome!
17:52.21sunbleachWhen I did hypersamnpling I did it myself
17:52.41sunbleachBecause I doubt rt takes gamma into account when averaging the samples
17:52.50brlcadthat usually gives better results.. jack up the -s by 4/8x and downsample
17:53.29brlcadthat way it can take neighbors into account instead of operating on a per-cell basis
17:53.47MinuteElectronbrlcad: Well, on the face of it - yes. The pages with forms on could do with some clean up\design, but I'm concerned about this taking months (I've literally been working on this since July) so that can probably come later, once it's moved over - LDAP, at least, is more important..
17:54.47brlcadMinuteElectron: quite true, you've put massive (great) efforts into this -- very much appreciated if I've not said it enough :)
17:54.56brlcadMinuteElectron: what was the ie6 problem?
17:55.17MinuteElectronbrlcad: It's my pleasure, I wouldn't be doing this unless I enjoyed it ;)
17:55.23brlcad:)
17:55.34MinuteElectronThe IE6 problem was just rounded corners and the blue box in the middle of the front page.
17:55.40MinuteElectronBoth of which are fixed now.
17:55.51sunbleachrounded corners are in today, especially combined with white
17:57.19MinuteElectronOnce we do get the site live and have spruced up the forms a bit I'll be concentrating on commenting my code, it is now getting very complex and difficult to maintain.
17:58.16MinuteElectronAnd, of course, anyone else who may need to edit the code will need commentes too (not that I plan to leave any time soon).
17:59.26brlcadi mean what was the problem with the rounded corners on ie6?
17:59.29brlcadwhat was the fix?
17:59.36yukonbobMinuteElectron: getting familiar with Babs?
18:00.09MinuteElectronbrlcad: they were all missaligned significantly, to fix it i had to add a variety of margin and width hacks in the ie6 only css file.
18:00.57MinuteElectronyukonbob: babs?
18:00.58brlcadahh
18:01.10brlcadso ie6 has it's own set of hacks :)
18:01.21brlcadguess you did have to do that for the header anyways :)
18:01.37MinuteElectronYeah, lots of ie hacks.
18:01.40yukonbobMinuteElectron: so many references to Barbara Jenson in the ldap docs I've read over the years ;)
18:02.01MinuteElectronbrlcad: But they are all in nice labelled ie only css files so it is easy to maintain ;)
18:02.10MinuteElectronyukonbob: I'm still reading the opening paragraph. :P
18:02.48MinuteElectronAlso I'll be expanding support for the theme into other browsers hopefully once everything else is done, at least the big 5 all work perfectly.
18:04.47MinuteElectronyukonbob: haha, indeed
18:10.09yukonbobMinuteElectron: I believe I've got the first edition of this book: http://tinyurl.com/2s8832 -- which is a good (and necessary, imo) high-level view of LDAP
18:10.30MinuteElectroncool, i'll have a look shortly
18:10.30brlcadyukonbob: how're those others working out?
18:11.16yukonbobheh -- arrived just after I left south, and I'm only _just_ getting ready to head back ;)
18:12.32brlcadahh, dumbasses
18:12.38brlcadthey were supposed to ship separate
18:13.01brlcadthey did say they would send two shipments, so they lied!
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18:40.36MinuteElectron>:C
18:41.55brlcadso is it using skin or skin2?
18:42.07MinuteElectronskin2
18:42.33MinuteElectron1) I made a mistake in the IE6 fixes so need to fix some more code, 2) LDAP is weird.
18:44.04brlcadit looks like it's trying ldap now
18:45.02brlcadbut is failing to fall-back to the previously existing accounts too
18:45.20MinuteElectronyeah
18:45.27MinuteElectronwell, i can't test that
18:45.32MinuteElectronunless i make a new account
18:45.34MinuteElectronwell i will
18:45.43MinuteElectronin a while
18:45.54brlcadi'll stop asking questions so you can eat :)
18:46.05sunbleachsee u later
18:46.08MinuteElectronlol :P
18:46.12MinuteElectronthxs
18:46.19brlcadmm eating is a good idea
18:46.22brlcadi haven't either
18:47.23brlcadyay, my ReliaMed 700 shipped today
18:53.45brlcadthe new skin is considerably cleaner..
18:53.49brlcadnice work
18:54.51bpoolesorry bout the overflow craziness brlcad
19:01.55brlcadbpoole: not your fault afaik :)
19:04.12brlcadmine for leaving cad's cvs2svn files around, not finishing the server migration faster, and not watching the system more carefully last night :)
19:05.01MinuteElectron...
19:06.01brlcadminor nit
19:06.20MinuteElectronhmm, ok
19:06.21brlcadso that background rendering overlaps underneath the left-header instead of over it
19:06.34brlcadjust swapped their order in the page.tpl
19:07.05MinuteElectronlooks good
19:07.06MinuteElectron(Y)
19:07.19brlcadand (re)fixed the clear="all" you had on the br's
19:07.37MinuteElectroncool
19:07.38brlcadbut instead of a clear style, added a clear:both; to the footer
19:09.35brlcadhm, http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fmy.brlcad.org%2Fwiki%2F&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&ss=1&outline=1&group=0&verbose=1&st=1
19:10.48MinuteElectronI'll take a look later, I have to go out do something now.
19:10.52brlcadi think it's a typo
19:10.57brlcadlooks too
19:11.30brlcadyeah, found it
19:11.46brlcadcool, validates
19:14.43brlcadFYI, there is scheduled maintenance at the server's ISP on Thursday january 24th at 00:00AM EDT for at most 6 hours at their atlanta hub that may affect connectivity (maybe not)
19:19.55PrezKennedywho hosts your server brlcad?
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19:34.25Z80-Boyre
21:02.54MinuteElectroneh?
21:02.58MinuteElectronWhat is the problem...
21:03.41brlcadoh snap, I think I just found it
21:03.47MinuteElectron:S
21:06.36brlcadit doesn't draw the bottom bezel if there's no width defined
21:06.48brlcadbut then if you define a width, it's no longer properly auto-expanding
21:07.02MinuteElectronWhich bezel are you talking about?
21:07.35brlcadthe bottom rounding on the search boxes and the top menu
21:07.57brlcadthe top search box was working, the bottom wasn't -- the difference was top had a width:
21:08.20brlcadbut, like I said, if/when you define the width, you lose the resizing
21:09.15MinuteElectronThe bottom search box looks to be working here, what browser are you using?
21:09.22brlcadie7
21:09.40brlcadlook from one of the wiki pages -- drupal caches
21:10.05brlcadit works fine on the 'good' browsers
21:10.51brlcadi wonder if it's collapsing them because they have nothing in them..
21:11.01MinuteElectronprobably
21:11.45pooliobrlcad: random question about using bz.bzflag.bz when you have time to respond :) Whenever I resize my local terminal window it messes up the characters and I have character artifacts all over the terminal. If I resize it back to where it was before and refresh the screen it's ok, but not at any other size.
21:14.15brlcadpoolio: there aren't termcap resize events set up, so you have to log in at the size you want
21:14.33brlcadcould be fixed, but never been enough of an annoyance to me (and screen doesn't care)
21:14.47brlcadyou can notify a screen resize with ctrl-a F
21:16.35poolioah, thanks :]
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21:25.33brlcadhm, well it doesn't seem to be because there is nothing in them
21:34.57MinuteElectronbrlcad: There is a similar problem on the top-right bevel.
21:39.47brlcadyou mean the menu?
21:39.57brlcadi just got both search boxes working
21:40.11brlcadusing a div similar to what you did for the right panel boxes
21:41.55MinuteElectronah, gdgd
21:41.58MinuteElectronand yes, the menu
21:43.00brlcadyay, works
21:43.10brlcadsame hack on the menu worked
21:43.18brlcadthat work in ie6?
21:43.31MinuteElectronahh, congrats.
21:43.32brlcadi recall it had the same rendering problem, but don't have it on this machine to test
21:43.35MinuteElectronIE6 was already fixed.
21:43.45brlcadokay, cool
21:44.09MinuteElectronwait, which file did you just edit to fix IE7?
21:45.03brlcadfix wasn't ie7 specific
21:45.11brlcadedited the page.tpl and style.css
21:45.26MinuteElectronWell, the fix broke IE6, not sure about the other browsers.
21:45.27brlcadto add a new sboxfooter
21:45.36brlcadhuh
21:46.11MinuteElectronthe main navigation base is now misalighed in IE6.
21:46.26brlcadwhat abou tnow?
21:46.30brlcader, now
21:46.41MinuteElectronahh, better
21:46.48brlcadhrm
21:58.45brlcadi'm running out if ideas
21:59.03brlcadwhatever exactly you did on the left panels works right?
21:59.26brlcadi thought I was basically doing the same, but the position:absolute; seems to be what's borking ie6
22:05.45brlcadMinuteElectron: how about now?
22:06.00brlcadI just made the div ie-7 specific for now
22:08.03MinuteElectronit's prefect
22:17.44MinuteElectrongoodnight
22:31.51brlcadgoodnight
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23:30.25PrezKennedyhey Twingy
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080122

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080122

01:13.56brlcadyeah, hilarity :P
01:13.58brlcad:)
01:25.53*** join/#brlcad jgay (n=jgay@fsf/staff/jgay)
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01:49.54Twingyhello PrezKennedy
03:18.42*** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=CY@c-68-33-217-173.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
03:18.48starseekerWooo - hoooo!
04:02.05*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
04:45.52brlcadheh, looks like starseeker got his net set up quick
05:11.56CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30010 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: check for strlcat/strlcpy for the guts of bu_strlcat/bu_strlcpy
05:13.10CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30011 10/brlcad/trunk/include/db.h: include bu.h, self-contain
05:13.47CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30012 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rttherm/viewtherm.c: header doc cleanup
05:15.07CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30013 10/brlcad/trunk/src/canon/canon.h: need bu.h
05:16.19CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30014 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/g5-g4.c: avoid the strncpy but keep it obvious that we're replacing 'plastic' with 'phong '
05:17.25CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30015 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/comgeom/3d.h: remove duplicate defines already provided by db.h for NAMESIZE/NAMEMOVE, cleanup header
05:22.59CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30016 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/iges/ (8 files):
05:22.59CIA-31BRL-CAD: consistently treat NAMESIZE as C strings of sizeof NAMESIZE+1 for the null (so
05:22.59CIA-31BRL-CAD: the max names are 16) .. only db.h uses buffers instead of C-strings (for
05:22.59CIA-31BRL-CAD: backwards compat with struct sizes). use new bu_strlcpy to properly copy and
05:22.59CIA-31BRL-CAD: null-terminate safely.
05:23.38CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30017 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/dbupgrade.c: replace the strncpy with explicit setting when replacing 'plastic' with 'phong '
05:24.29CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30018 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/track.c:
05:24.29CIA-31BRL-CAD: consistently treat NAMESIZE as C strings of sizeof NAMESIZE+1 for the null (so
05:24.29CIA-31BRL-CAD: the max names are 16) .. only db.h uses buffers instead of C-strings (for
05:24.29CIA-31BRL-CAD: backwards compat with struct sizes). use new bu_strlcpy to properly copy and
05:24.29CIA-31BRL-CAD: null-terminate safely.
05:24.59CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30019 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/objdir.h: only set NAMESIZE if we need to
05:27.56CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30020 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/concat.c:
05:27.56CIA-31BRL-CAD: consistently treat NAMESIZE as C strings of sizeof NAMESIZE+1 for the null (so
05:27.56CIA-31BRL-CAD: the max names are 16) .. only db.h uses buffers instead of C-strings (for
05:27.56CIA-31BRL-CAD: backwards compat with struct sizes). use new bu_strlcpy to properly copy and
05:27.56CIA-31BRL-CAD: null-terminate safely.
05:28.16CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30021 10/brlcad/trunk/src/burst/burst.h: only define NSIG if we need to
05:28.54CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30022 10/brlcad/trunk/src/burst/Mm.h: use libbu memory management and string processing
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06:09.07CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30023 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libcommon/canim.c: ws
06:17.52CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30024 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/patch/patch-g.h: consistently use NAMESIZE+1 for non-db.h struct strings (intentionally treating as strings instead of buffers)
06:18.43CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30025 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/g4-g5.c: avoid the strncpy but keep it obvious that we're replacing 'plastic' with 'phong '
06:48.51CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30026 10/brlcad/trunk/src/vdeck/vproc.c: wow, still k&r .. update to ansi, use libbu more (untested)
06:51.14CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30027 10/brlcad/trunk/src/vdeck/vdeck.c: tricky/risky/untested string changes to use bu_strlcpy, but do it anyways since they seem safe enough (given use and surrounding code) and there are no strcat's involved.
06:52.26yukonbobnn brlcad
06:52.33yukonbob~brlcad++
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07:00.00CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30028 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/nmg_class.c: meh
07:14.58CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30029 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/ttcp.c: meh
07:21.38Z80-Boy'
07:25.15CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30030 10/brlcad/trunk/ (159 files in 37 dirs): (log message trimmed)
07:25.15CIA-31BRL-CAD: sweeping string management changes to help ensure more secure/consistent null
07:25.15CIA-31BRL-CAD: termination and bounds checking. use bu_strlcpy/bu_strlcat where appropriate
07:25.15CIA-31BRL-CAD: passing the size of the buffer (expected to be a NULL-terminated C-string)
07:25.15CIA-31BRL-CAD: instead of calling strcat/strncat/strcpy/strncpy. this lets us get rid of most
07:25.17CIA-31BRL-CAD: of the sanity/manual null-terminations. also update to use sizeof instead of
07:25.19CIA-31BRL-CAD: hard-coded constants where useful. hopefully not too many/any bugs getting
07:36.59CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30031 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/rtif.c: oops, typo -- line not count
07:39.33CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30032 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/fence.c: quell warnings
07:49.45CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30033 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/orle.h src/liborle/rle.c):
07:49.45CIA-31BRL-CAD: decouple liborle from libfb (and in turn from libbu) by having it provide its
07:49.45CIA-31BRL-CAD: own RLEpixel and RLEColorMap types as well as defining RED/GRN/BLU if needed.
07:49.45CIA-31BRL-CAD: this should fix compilation woes being seen on some platforms (e.g. debian)
07:49.45CIA-31BRL-CAD: under certain configurations -- particular an error related to not finding tcl.h
07:49.48CIA-31BRL-CAD: (from bu.h from fb.h).
07:53.12CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30034 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/librender/Makefile.am: need tcl flags (bu.h inclusion)
07:54.39CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30035 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libutil/Makefile.am: need tcl flags, opl
07:55.50CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30036 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/Makefile.am: need tcl flags
07:59.04CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30037 10/brlcad/trunk/include/orle.h: need COPYRGB defined too
08:00.55CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30038 10/brlcad/trunk/src/fbed/Makefile.am: include the tcl cppflags via fb.h
08:04.27CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30039 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (7 files):
08:04.27CIA-31BRL-CAD: more conversion over to the new bu_strlcpy/bu_strlcat routines for more
08:04.27CIA-31BRL-CAD: consistent null-termination and bounds checking. (vls and parse are still not
08:04.27CIA-31BRL-CAD: modified as some of their callers seem to be buffers instead of C-strings)
08:06.20*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
08:08.20*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
08:13.29CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30040 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/fchmod.c):
08:13.29CIA-31BRL-CAD: refactor the bu_fchmod interface to only take a FILE * instead of the filename
08:13.29CIA-31BRL-CAD: as that has the same security vulnerability as calling chmod() does. remove the
08:13.29CIA-31BRL-CAD: chmod() call in the implementation as that was just done for Windows where
08:13.29CIA-31BRL-CAD: fchmod() or a secure equivalent doesn't seem to be available. instead, punt by
08:13.31CIA-31BRL-CAD: doing what cygwin does. just ignore the request and pretend it failed. might
08:13.33CIA-31BRL-CAD: want to pretend it succeeded, but good as anything for now.
08:19.50CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30041 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/do.c: need string.h for the ansi funcs (for memset), quell warning
08:25.24CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30042 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/reshoot.c: need string.h for the ansi funcs (for memset), quell warning
08:27.09CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30043 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (fb/fb-pix.c fb/fb-png.c mged/rtif.c):
08:27.09CIA-31BRL-CAD: bah, second mistake almost in a row... almost completely forgot to update the
08:27.09CIA-31BRL-CAD: callers to bu_fchmod to remove the filename parameter (!). time to call it a
08:27.09CIA-31BRL-CAD: night before I start making other stupid mistakes at this late hour.
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14:04.12CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30044 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm-wgl.c: When creating a toplevel window make sure it's not iconified.
14:08.59*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@77.237.113.83)
14:21.25CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30045 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/utility1.c: Close FILE * before calling editit.
14:24.06CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30046 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mater.c: Close FILE * before calling editit.
14:24.35CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30047 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/chgmodel.c: Close FILE * before calling editit.
14:28.28CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30048 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/red.c: Check return value from bu_temp_file(). Close FILE * before calling editit.
14:36.24CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30049 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/tedit.c: Minor formatting.
14:54.56docelicNew website looks nice
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17:51.10``Erikdang, that razor mouse is zippy
18:30.23CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30050 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libutil/display.c: Need to include bu.h for the bu_strlcpy() macro.
19:04.24``Erikhad to turn down the track speed, heh :) but it's a nice enough mouse
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20:13.00*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
20:13.00*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release 7.12.0 coming soon to a desktop near you
20:20.56*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
20:20.56*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release 7.12.0 coming soon to a desktop near you
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21:51.54*** join/#brlcad cyapp (n=CYapp@85.muba.balt.washdctt.dsl.att.net)
21:52.13cyappHowdy gang!
21:53.24brlcadhowdy cyapp  :)
21:59.45cyappGuess I should use my real name now :-)
22:01.12``Erikdidja find them?
22:01.47cyappwhich?
22:04.57pooliocongrats cyapp  :]
22:04.57``Erikhuh, a rainbow
22:08.31CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30051 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): make goo value per metaball control point
22:20.33CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30052 10/brlcad/trunk/src/vas4/vas_io.c: Use termios tab expansion name instaed of sgtty if possible (fbsd pr ports/119096).
22:57.14*** part/#brlcad starseeker (n=CYapp@85.muba.balt.washdctt.dsl.att.net)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080123

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080123

01:40.50*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
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03:39.32CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30053 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/ (tcl/unix/ tk/unix/): ignore the stub libs
03:40.43CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30054 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/: ignore breplicator
03:42.38brlcadcause afaik, vas4 is dead .. as soon as it requires maintenance, it'll probably be time to remove it
03:45.59``ErikI think it was a compiler issue
03:46.20``ErikI wante dto talk to you about retiring it on my way out, but you were on the phone
03:47.57*** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=CY@c-68-33-217-173.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
03:48.04yukonbobhello, starseeker
03:48.09starseekerHowdy
03:48.24starseekerhow goes it?
03:48.30yukonbobnot bad -- yourself?
03:48.42starseekerTired :-).  I'm about done with moving...
03:48.46yukonbob:)
03:48.47starseekeror it's about done with me...
03:48.58yukonbobWhat are you going to be working on when you start?
03:49.01``Eriklewis black is pretty funny in his new special
03:49.13``Erikyukon: fetching coffee and such
03:49.17``Erik:D
03:49.18starseekerlol
03:49.19yukonbobhehehe
03:49.45``Erikit'll take at least a week to get a computer account all lined up and permitted
03:50.04starseekerYeah, basic stuff to start.  Right at the moment I'm just doing alot of paperwork
03:50.23``Eriklots of paperwork
03:50.47``Erikuh, sf86, interims, aup, etc
03:50.49yukonbob~karma starseeker
03:50.49ibotstarseeker has karma of 2
03:50.56yukonbob~karma yukonbob
03:50.56ibotyukonbob has karma of 2
03:51.06``Erikno, the only reason I have an arl purchased coffee cup is cuz I stole it
03:51.16starseekerAh :-).
03:51.16``Erikfrom the director O.o
03:51.48``Erikslad director, I stole one of pauls "slad" cups
03:51.49``Erik:)
03:51.50yukonbobI _was_ going to say maybe when I reach starseeker's level of karma, I'll get a job @ arl too -- and we can get paid to build Saturn models in BRL-CAD
03:52.37starseekeryukonbob:  That's a tad useless even for worst-case pork spending, unless perhaps the Smithsonian commissions a Saturn V model...
03:52.52``Eriksorry, bob, you're a canuck, so us gov't doesn't consider you to be a sentient being :(
03:52.53yukonbobheh
03:52.59yukonbobfeh
03:53.05yukonbobthat's OK -- England took me
03:53.07louipcwgha?
03:53.30``Eriksweet
03:53.41yukonbobwill be...
03:54.08starseekeryukonbob:  I still think the unrestricted Saturn V blueprints (if any) would be a great demo for the BRL-CAD software
03:54.26starseekeryukonbob:  That's likely something I'll be doing in my retirement...
03:54.40yukonbobstarseeker: indeed it would -- it'd be cool in many ways
03:55.03``Erikbuddy of mine, colin, did his doctorate at oxford, damn smart boy
03:55.38starseekerI'm getting the impression the publicly available screenshots of BRL-CAD don't even begin to hint at what it can do, but of course engineering drawings of sufficient complexity to really show it off are a tad hard to come by in the public domain...
03:55.39``Erikhe claims to have the shortest thesis out of the cs dept there
03:55.46``Erikohhhhhh, heh
03:55.57``Erikummm
03:56.26``Erikthe birdcage stryker was a BRL-CAD model converted to adt for rise, and the grass added using blender
03:56.44``Erikthought I think it was a pro-e model that was converted and cleaned up
03:56.49starseeker:-)
03:56.50yukonbobstarseeker: I bet the public digs pretty pix like that 6-wheel vehicle (which _is_ an awesome render), and other visibly 'kewl' things
03:56.58``Erikthe birdcage may've been done in brlcad
03:57.24starseekeryukonbob:  Yeah, visually complex is good.  
03:57.28yukonbobah -- that's the one I was thinking of  -- the stryker...
03:57.33``Erikwe have ummm, a hubble model, a hilux truck, and an mi28
03:57.36``Erik8 wheel, not 6
03:57.45starseekerIs the hubble model in the public tree?
03:57.48``Erikthough it is of the lav family, which has anywhere form 4 to 8 wheels
03:57.52yukonbobwhat's a pair of wheels among friends?
03:58.23``Erikstryker is a pile anyways, half of it is made in canada *cough* :D
03:58.43yukonbobwell -- hopefully once the website is more up/running and there a wiki/gallery, pix will come out of the wordwork.
03:59.09``Erikkarel has some engineering grade crap on his site
03:59.23yukonboburl?
03:59.25``ErikI'd kinda like to bust out a tape measure and model my house some day
03:59.38yukonbob``Erik: /me has had that idea for a while too
03:59.43``Erikhttp://ronja.twibright.com/
03:59.54yukonbob;)
04:00.15``Erikwe had a summer student come and do a model of a reasonably large house from blueprints
04:00.31``ErikI THINK he managed to get all the studs in, too
04:00.31brlcadI have some of the old/original GSI BRL-CAD renderings that can probably finally be posted
04:00.40yukonboboh -- karel == Z80-Boy
04:00.44starseekerThat would be cool
04:00.54``Erikyeah, karel == clock == z80
04:01.33yukonbobya -- that ronja stuff is pretty neat...
04:01.40``Erikthere're um, m1 pics that'd been public released, that was modelled entirely in old BRL-CAD
04:01.43yukonbobI wonder how many hours went into it...
04:01.45brlcadthat stryker was a hybrid iirc, predominantly started as pro/e but the slat armor and some other details weren't
04:02.03``Eriklike in the second volume of the doc,  few pages in is a "skinless" render
04:02.21PrezKennedyi should steal my dad's nick if ts still available on freenode
04:02.34``Erikyeah, and some of the proe stuff was gutted and redone in BRL-CAD primitives
04:02.51``ErikI know dwayne got heavy on doing that once I got him a clone prototype
04:03.08``Erikum
04:03.10starseeker``Erik:  How
04:03.13starseekersorry
04:03.13``Erikkermit: No such nick/channel
04:03.26starseeker``Erik:  How'd the Hubble get a BRL-CAD model, by the way?
04:03.42``ErikI think that may've been a hair lee got up his ass
04:03.55``Erikhe worked at nasa before brl
04:04.19brlcadyeah, lee was working on a project for the STSI at the time
04:04.54brlcadthat was one of the relatively 'first' real things he modeled
04:05.11yukonbobis there a BNF available to describe the .g format?
04:05.33``Erikno, but there's a description in a file that's sorta almost kinda recent
04:05.53yukonbobpoolio: LaTeX is sooo 1990's -- we all [heart] DocBook now...
04:06.02yukonbob:)
04:06.04``Erikthe librt and wdb stuff is reasonably ok to read
04:06.07PrezKennedy\whois kermit
04:06.14PrezKennedydangit
04:06.21PrezKennedytoo much interaction with windoze
04:06.22``Eriklike, uh, in the libt/g_*.c files, look at the import and export 5 functions
04:06.30starseekerDocBook is good for very specific types of documentation - those not needing heavy duty mathematics
04:06.48``ErikI like LaTeX
04:07.33yukonboblatex is cool -- and in fact all the docbook work I've done converts to LaTeX, then LaTeX->pdf
04:07.46poolioyukonbob: :'(
04:08.00poolioyukonbob: I have to typeset all my math homework now
04:08.04``ErikI've only done a tiny bit of docbook type shtuff
04:08.23yukonbobstarseeker: I'd be surprised if there's not math-oriented "docbook" tools out there...
04:08.26``Erikboth docbook and latex have overly verbose close tags imnsho
04:08.56brlcadthe two 'Plate' renderings (albeit "misfiled") in http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/ are a nicely detailed pure-csg model
04:09.09yukonbobpoolio: I was only kidding... :) I have two LaTeX manuals that are really nice to have -- once you outgrow the "LaTeX in 20 Minutes" or whatever that text is...
04:10.12``Erikyeah, those're the m1 "skinless" renders
04:10.23``Erikone of those is in one of the books
04:10.41brlcadboth are (or at least were)
04:11.22starseekerbrlcad: are those the ones someone worried about being on the website even though they were cleared for release?
04:11.55brlcadstarseeker: one of them, yes
04:12.21``Erikum, that was one that got striken from a poster pitch
04:12.32``Erikstruck
04:12.33``Erikbleh
04:12.34brlcadonce we have the new website on-line with a proper way to annotate/document the images, when/how released, with descriptions, it'll be better
04:12.46starseekerYes.
04:12.50``Eriklees proposalcouldn't get approved with that pic on it
04:13.00starseekerReally??
04:13.01brlcad``Erik: yeah, probably, but those are all what you get via the 'make' cmd
04:13.11``Erikpng has a comment field O.o
04:13.49brlcaddifferent decades, different folks
04:13.58yukonbobpoolio: I think I've got "The LaTeX Companion" and "Guide to LaTeX"...
04:15.03poolioI'm really upset, I can't make the QED symbol and I'm done my proof!
04:15.27starseekerThere are some solutions for structured picture viewing - remember something called Scientific Image Database from the mists of time...
04:18.10starseekerOK, time to put the brain in bureaucracy recovery mode (a.k.a sleep...)
04:18.52``Erikams-latex has a proof environment that parks a qed mark at the end
04:20.03``Erikgoogle for "latex qed" gives lots of hits
04:20.34starseekerToo bad they can't release the hubble model - that'd be cool (particularly if the ray-tracing could interact with the optics...)
04:21.36CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30055 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/parse.c:
04:21.36CIA-31BRL-CAD: one more converted over to bu_strlcpy/bu_strlcat. this one was intentionally
04:21.36CIA-31BRL-CAD: skipped initially as there's a strncpy going on that intentionally is
04:21.36CIA-31BRL-CAD: short-copying a buffer. didn't investigate the cause, whether intentional or
04:21.36CIA-31BRL-CAD: not, but leaving alone with a note for now.
04:30.03brlcadpossibly, but it's hard to get your hands on some of those models
04:30.26Axman6the commies might get them!
04:31.14louipcchina?
04:31.28brlcadI had contacts to a couple gusy for the mars rover project a couples years ago and could have gotten the model they used in the ubiquitous animation renderings, but still wouldn't have been able to make it public
04:31.47Axman6lame
04:32.02Axman6well... i made a paper model when i was a kid... could ou use that?
04:32.07Axman6it's a little squished
04:34.54CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30056 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/tedit.c: if your gonna tweak ws, might as well do the whole file
04:35.42louipcheh
04:37.09CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30057 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob got all of the mged text editing commands (edcodes, edmater, wmater, ted, etc) on the windows platform
04:37.59``Erikum, siggraph 05?
04:38.41``Erikvgr, er, voyager might be old enough to be releasable
04:40.18CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30058 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
04:40.19CIA-31BRL-CAD: Bob also got rtwizard working on windows (at least partially -- he still has to
04:40.19CIA-31BRL-CAD: add a few missing commands for some of the extended modes). also made the
04:40.19CIA-31BRL-CAD: display managers behave better by automatically deiconifying if needed.
04:40.37``Erikheh
04:40.56``ErikI loaned dave a couple tcl books this morning, he's going to b working on rewriting that
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05:40.37brlcadyeah, I know .. but that's might still be months off and he might still get pulled onto something else
05:41.40brlcaded had an interesting idea for a quick fix geometry conversion path by using [commercial cad package X] -> STEP/IGES -> Rhino -> 3DM -> BRL-CAD via a new 3dm-g converter that uses the new BREP primitive
05:42.24brlcadthat has a lot of great short-term and long-term merit if it were implemented well enough .. gives a fast conversion path and a new converter all in one step
05:42.34brlcadI might have to work on that just as part of the brep implementation testing
06:30.14CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30059 10/brlcad/trunk/ (172 files in 25 dirs): even MORE K&R ws style consistency cleanup. this time, make sure there's a space between the ){'s as well as around "else" statements.
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07:06.02CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30060 10/brlcad/trunk/ (17 files in 6 dirs): (log message trimmed)
07:06.02CIA-31BRL-CAD: refactor libpkg so that the windows-specific pkg_init and pkg_terminate
07:06.02CIA-31BRL-CAD: functions should no longer be necessary. according to the msdn docs, the
07:06.02CIA-31BRL-CAD: functions may be called multiple times as they internally reference count the
07:06.02CIA-31BRL-CAD: number of calls to each and deallocated on the last/matching WSACleanup that
07:06.04CIA-31BRL-CAD: corresponds to the number of calls to WSAStartup. the calls were moved directly
07:06.06CIA-31BRL-CAD: into pkg_open and pkg_close (which will get picked up by all callers including
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07:33.45CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30061 10/brlcad/trunk/src/burst/Sc.h: quell warnings and remove non-ansi decls by removing the oddly named _STDC_ sections
07:34.47CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30062 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tk/unix/: ends up with a libtclstub8.5.a.E in here anyways, so add to ignore list
07:38.27CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30063 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/: ignore librttherm.a and libremrt.a
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10:41.49GruniHideho.
12:20.33starseekerInteresting - apparently someone has located some of the old Pioneer probe drawings:  http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/models/vault2006/pioneerbp.zip
12:21.34Z80-Boymade in BRL-CAD?
12:21.50starseekerDon't think so
12:22.09starseekerthese look like they either are or are based off of the 2D prints NASA would have used
12:22.44starseekerNaturally it doesn't seem to include much in the way of dimensions... grumble...
13:36.36b0efbrlcad: I'm requesting iges-g then, but are we able to use these files in brlcad?
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15:31.07brlcadb0ef: depends what level of use you're looking for and what sort of iges it is -- you should be able to at least bring in the model, perform basic transformations, basic analyses (it should be nirtable), and render it
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16:20.03starseekerbrlcad:  Is it still the case that BRL-CAD doesn't have a simple way to recover deleted geometry? (E.g. an undo option?)
16:29.53brlcadnope, there is no undo in mged
16:30.36brlcadthere are commit actions that don't immediately apply, like solid edit mode, but once you apply/reject/accept, the action is atomic and done
16:31.50brlcada long-standing request but was actually a specific design intent, at least initially
16:32.23brlcadi don't think anyone is opposed to the idea of undo any more, but the details to implement it properly are a bit tricky
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18:20.59CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30064 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpkg/pkg.c: If we're going to perform a WSACleanup() in pkg_close() we also need to call WSAStartup() in pkg_getclient() and _pkg_permserver_impl().
18:23.22CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30065 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/lib/FbPage.itk: Mods to get things working on Windows.
18:25.27CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30066 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/bw-pix.c: Tweak for compiling on Windows.
18:29.13CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30067 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (archer/archer.bat mged/mged.bat): Minor tweaks.
18:32.24CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30068 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (raytrace.h rtgeom.h): Moved a few metaball function declarations from rtgeom.h to raytrace.h.
18:38.14CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30069 10/brlcad/trunk/ (doc/deprecation.txt include/bu.h src/libbu/brlcad_path.c): make bu_brlcad_root/bu_brlcad_data both return a const char * instead of a char * so callers are more aware that they should copy the string if they want to modify it
19:30.17CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30070 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_disk.c: Added a call to setmode() in dsk_open(). This fixes the problem where bad pix files were getting created.
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20:45.14CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30071 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
20:45.14CIA-31BRL-CAD: Bob fixed PIX image file creation bug on Windows .. this fixes a problem with
20:45.15CIA-31BRL-CAD: many of the pix and framebuffer tools that render directly to a pix file via
20:45.15CIA-31BRL-CAD: libfb. the problem was the file was not opened in 'binary mode', which is
20:45.15CIA-31BRL-CAD: required on windows or it will perform EOL translations (wreaking all sorts of
20:45.17CIA-31BRL-CAD: havoc of course with a pix image)
20:46.40brlcad../../include/raytrace.h:3527: warning: 'struct rt_metaball_internal' declared inside parameter list
20:46.43brlcad../../include/raytrace.h:3527: warning: its scope is only this definition or declaration, which is probably not what you want
20:54.04``Erikheh, yeah, bob went moving my shit around
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20:55.59``Erikhe moved crap i defined in rtgeom.h (after the struct def) into raytrace.h, and a lot of stuff includes raytrace.h without rtgeom.h
20:59.18CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30072 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: include a forward decl for struct defined in rtgeom.h
21:00.11``Erikhackish, but works :/
21:07.10CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30073 10/brlcad/trunk/src/lgt/ (extern.h glob.c lgt.c): er, not clear why lgt request the data segment address .. don't do it so we can remove the sbrk check
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21:25.49CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30074 10/brlcad/trunk/src/remrt/rtsrv.c: remove the unused beginptr and associated sbrk() calls
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21:52.12CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30075 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/config_win.h src/libbu/malloc.c): move the Windows-specific empty sbrk() hack into config_win.h as just being NULL
22:26.49starseekerbrlcad, ``Erik:  anybody still on?
22:26.57brlcadyes?
22:27.09starseekerJust wondering about the BRL-CAD shortcuts
22:27.15starseekerare they customizable?
22:27.21starseekerfor movement, rotation, etc
22:28.02brlcad"BRL-CAD shortcuts"?  I presume you mean "MGED shortcuts" ... ;)
22:28.08starseekerer, yeah :-)
22:30.26brlcadyeah, they can be customized -- it's all in tcl land for the bindings
22:30.52starseekerCool
22:31.00brlcadbut how easy and what exactly you have to do for a given binding or to make new ones isn't exactly well-defined or cleaned up for end-users to easily change
22:31.10starseekerAh.
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22:31.37brlcadmost people don't even know that the bindings exist other than the basics
22:31.46brlcadand there are different bindings for each window
22:32.03brlcade.g. if you're in the command window, you sort of expect cursor control bindings
22:32.21brlcadthe "hotkeys" in the graphics window, though, are just single keys
22:33.11starseekerI'm not sure it maps all that cleanly to mged...
22:43.40brlcadyeah, I could write a book on potential new-user usability improvements that mged could benefit from..
22:44.19brlcadthe issue is usually more that once you do know how things behave, you can be quite proficient .. and responsive to a wide range of modeling/analysis needs
22:45.49starseekerOh, no question :-)  I know I need to be patient.
22:46.20brlcadit's a sad result of continual on-going reprioritization .. do you stop and work on mged usability for new users (that are only new once) or work on new feature X that they need now
22:46.55starseekerPut that way, the choice is obvious
22:47.24starseekerto heck with the newbies :-P
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22:52.23brlcadyeah, but you can only keep saying that for so long
22:52.27brlcadbefore it's a major problem :)
22:52.31brlcadlike it is now :)
22:55.01louipcyou need some stats like the percentage of new users that continue to use brlcad after x amount of time, how often they use it, etc...
22:55.24brlcada lot of the most fundamental problems stem from not having easy access to an evaluated representation (e.g. a csg implicit in evaluated brep form) .. which is where most of my long term plans have stemmed from (instead of stopping to tweak mged, for example)
22:55.50louipcI don't have much time to learn how to model in brlcad other than to toy with it once in awhile.
22:56.21louipchm
22:56.49brlcadbecause I could make mged relatively as easy to use as other big-name cad packages for new users, but then there are still some critical issues like shaded displays and a clean geometry management api on the code side of things
22:57.56brlcadwow, this EMS is awesome .. and pretty damn strong, can't take the highest setting
23:07.52louipchah
23:11.04yukonbob?EMS
23:13.45CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30076 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): finally remove the mk_poly/mk_polysolid/mk_fpoly routines for procedurally creating polysolid primitives. the BoT primitive replaced them a long while ago and have been marked obsolete more than long enough
23:16.12CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30077 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/lib/ (PictureTypeE.itcl PictureTypeF.itcl): Mods for running on Windows. Also cleaned up the catch statements.
23:17.07brlcad~ems
23:17.08iboti heard ems is an Electronic Muscle Stimulator .. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Muscle_Stimulation
23:17.50brlcadfun stuff :)
23:19.03brlcadfirst tried one at my physical therapist last year when I had a rotator cuff injury on my shoulder
23:19.27alex_jonisounds like "10 things you can't do while beeing electrocuted" from brainiac
23:19.31brlcadordered one a couple days ago, arrived earlier today .. been using it for the past few hours playing with settings while I code :)
23:20.55brlcadshould be really nice for workout warmup/recovery
23:20.57alex_jonihttp://www.g4tv.com/brainiac/videos/index.html
23:21.32alex_jonibrlcad: don't try it while shaving :)
23:25.31brlcadhm, won't play here
23:25.37brlcadloads but doesn't play
23:26.14brlcadit locks up your muscle, I don't think I'd anything that required the muscles being stimulated
23:26.30brlcadthe contractions can be quite intense depending on the setting
23:38.14CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30078 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/rtif.c: quell warnings, bu_brlcad_* return const now
23:42.39CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30079 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (picket_fence.c pix2g.c spltest.c): quell warnings
23:45.02CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30080 10/brlcad/trunk/ (9 files in 8 dirs): finally remove the obsolete write_shell_as_polysolid that was replaced by mk_bot_from_nmg during the 6.0 release
23:47.00CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30081 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (contours.c pix2g.c): quell warnings
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23:59.17starseekerHuh - anybody heard of these guys before?  http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/models/guidelines.html
23:59.33starseekerTheir archives seem to have quite a lot of drawings and photos of cool stuff :-)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080124

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080124

00:01.11starseekerThis is cool:  http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/models/vault2007/Voyager%20plans/BLUEPRINT_VOYAGER.gif
00:18.26brlcadthat is pretty cool
00:18.50brlcadcould construct it from that pretty easily.. :)
00:37.16starseekerDunno what the copyright status is on it though...
00:45.48brlcadshouldn't matter for modeling purposes, the model itself is still an original work so long as you don't embed the image
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01:10.58CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30082 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): obliterate the old HAVE_UNIX_IO check. instead use the corresponding types/stat/whatever checks that the HAVE_UNIX_IO section protects, or rewrite where appropriate to use c89 routines instead of unix io
01:11.58CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30083 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: no longer need the HAVE_UNIX_IO and TIME_WITH_SYS_TIME checks. the first was removed throughout the code, the latter is already provided via AC_HEADER_TIME check.
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12:13.08starseekerAnybody know anything about a CAD format called Inventor?
12:16.35starseekerI don't see anything about copyright info yet, but this would potentially make a Really Cool example for BRL-CAD:  http://space.jpl.nasa.gov/models/models/cassini.dxf.gz
12:29.56starseekerdxf-g handles it, and the resulting .g file is pretty nifty even in all gray:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/cassini-1.png
12:30.07starseekerhttp://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/cassini-2.png
12:37.11starseekerbiab
12:37.18brlcadsgi inventor?
12:37.29starseekerNot sure - could be
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12:38.06brlcadinventor files are just an old polygonal file format that old sgi/irix boxes preferred for their native tools
12:38.15starseekerhttp://space.jpl.nasa.gov/models/
12:38.21starseekerFifth entry down
12:38.33brlcadbut then there's also autodesk inventor and a few other products that are entirely different
12:38.50starseekerUses the .iv extension
12:41.06brlcadyeah, that's an sgi file
12:41.10brlcadopen inventor
12:42.12starseekerAnything we can do with it?
12:42.44brlcadmm, on an sgi sure :)
12:43.09starseekerheh
12:43.29starseekerThat's the one with 300000 primitives - would be interesting to test it out
12:43.51brlcadthere's an iv to vrml converter iirc
12:44.00brlcadi don't think we have an importer for it in brl-cad
12:44.06brlcadso you could .. write one :)
12:44.36starseekerHehe
12:44.59starseekerIs there enough call for it to justify doing it?
12:45.21brlcadthere are binary and ascii .iv's
12:46.27brlcadthe details are somewhere in http://oss.sgi.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/inventor/
12:46.35starseekerJust spotted that :-)
12:47.31brlcadi'm not sure there's any calling for it other than completeness of converters
12:47.49brlcadit was a fairly popular format back in the day
12:47.54starseekerCool, thanks :-)
12:47.54starseekerOh, well - in the meantime the dxf based one is a pretty nifty demo.  I was afraid it would be 2D only but it is 3D :-)
12:48.00brlcadwhen inventor and performer were the best
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12:48.42brlcadhaving a non-polygonal version would be impressive
12:49.12starseekerSo it might have some utility in the "preserving old work in useful formats" department...
12:49.19brlcadperfect situation for csg implicits from the shapes I'm seeing in your rendering
12:49.37starseekerYes, I thought that too looking at it
12:49.47brlcadsure, if .iv has the objects and not just more surfaces
12:50.21brlcade.g. whether that big ball is actually a sphere or a bunch of polygons that define a sphere's surface
12:51.09alex_jonibrlcad: what kind of shaders are common in brlcad?
12:51.44starseekerIf it doesn't define a sphere, is it pretty useless?
12:52.28brlcadalex_joni: http://my.brlcad.org/ugm2002/ShadingObjects.pdf
12:52.30alex_joniI saw a "nifty" shader once.. it worked a bit different than regular ones.. when you imported a model it analyzed the objects, and created a separate wireframe for the edges
12:52.45brlcadstarseeker: yeah, pretty much
12:52.53starseekerHuh - Open Inventor is licensed under the LGPL.  Any chance it could be used directly?
12:52.56brlcadit might define a brep surface, that's useful too
12:53.07alex_jonithen it displayed the objects with gourad? and placed the wireframe on top.. the result is very nice even if the mdoels are crappy
12:53.42brlcadalex_joni: it sounds like you're describing an rtedge overlay
12:53.55alex_jonibrlcad: might be, I have no clue how it's called
12:54.04starseekerbrlcad:  What about a graphical utility to allow the user to select polygons and then use the polygons to "deduce" a replacement shape?
12:54.08brlcadthat's not actually a different shader, it's a separate render pass (for the edges)
12:54.10alex_joniI only use the software which implements it
12:54.23starseekerbrlcad:  Annoying as all get out, but possibly easier than re-doing from scratch
12:54.51alex_jonibrlcad: I *thought* this is a shader, because the program I use does it on the fly.. so no real rendering
12:55.03brlcadalex_joni: a brl-cad program?
12:55.22alex_joniheh, no.. a different program, not OSS
12:55.24brlcadthere are ways to do it as a shader if you have a polygonal model
12:55.49alex_joniI was just wondering if something similar exists in brlcad
12:56.13brlcadyeah, that's not surprising, there are ways to do that effect as an opengl shader  .. brl-cad shaders are ray-trace shaders (like you'd find for renderman/pixar, not opengl)
12:56.15alex_joni(as I've seen that most things out there can be found in brl-cad somewhere)
12:56.42brlcadalex_joni: yeah, something like: http://my.brlcad.org/ugm2002/RtWizard.pdf
12:56.52brlcadsee page 11 .. the difference on the edges
12:56.57starseekerWell, gotta get into work - later all
12:57.01alex_jonistill waiting on the first link.. doesn't open
12:57.26brlcadfirst one is 28M, second is 7M
12:57.59alex_jonimight explain :)
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13:46.27starseekerOK, enough with the space probes, back to tutorials ;-)
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14:04.05``Erikhey, brlcad
14:05.04``Erikbob is going through and fixing rtwizard so it works in windows while dave is looking at rewriting it... are we getting unnecessary duplication of effort?
14:14.54``Erikhehehe "The capital of Quebec is Queblowme."
14:18.20starseeker``Erik:  I had to duck out - did brlcad tell me whether there was any useful user-interactive manual way to convert meshes to shapes?  (e.g. select all the polygons used to define a sphere by hand and then say "make a sphere using the dimensions defined by these")
14:18.43``Eriknope, and I don't think there is
14:18.58starseekerNuts
14:19.03``Erikben was kinda exploring a possibly way to attack that problem with beset
14:19.39``Erikbut the modellers here generally just write some numbers from the mesh down and start building the csg tree
14:19.59starseekerYeah, I guess that's almost the same
14:20.30``Erikyeah
14:20.42``Erikthat's one of the things clone and tracker are supposed to help with :)
14:21.07starseekerIndeed.
14:21.32starseekerHeh - well, at least I have a nifty screenshot now that isn't havoc.g ;-)
14:24.20``Erikheh, um
14:24.40``Erikbot models tend to do that
14:24.53``Erikbut it'd pipe into adrt fairly nicely I bet
15:23.43CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30084 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_metaball.c: Fixed i/o. Started adding "Blinn Blob" evaluator
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16:08.35starseeke1Hmm.
16:09.54starseekerIs there a script in here somewhere that can step down a list of parts and add them one by one to the drawing?
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18:40.41yukonbobhello, cadheads
19:10.17brlcadhowdy bob
19:12.02brlcadstarseeker: which drawing?  the wireframe display in mged?
19:12.22brlcadif you want to interactively add/remove objects from the wireframe, the geometry browser will let you do that
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19:41.59starseekerbrlcad:  I was thinking the scenario of an imported drawing with a long list of parts with automatically generated names (i.e. useless for describing what they are) you could start blank and add parts automatically in succession, printing out the current name of each as it is added - that way you can visually identify what it is and re-name it accordingly (bonus points if the script gives you an opportunity to re-name on the fly...)
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21:15.49starseekerlol
21:16.01``Erikwhat? I'm being productive :)
21:16.02starseekerbeen in too many meetings?
21:18.04``Erikwell, the interesting part is the terminal ballistics
21:18.16``Erikwith a well defined boolean end state, even!
21:18.31*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@77.237.103.186)
21:19.05``ErikI can make a little iua table, mkill for stick, fkill for "ohcrap, it's coming at me", and kkill for "FUCK, MY EYE"
21:19.49``Erikchicks dig eyepatches :D
21:46.07brlcadstarseeker: ah terminology delta -- 'drawings' generally refer to drafting specs and/or hidden-line renderings
21:46.59brlcadwith autocad, that terminology is synonymous with the model and it's geometry but because autocad is a drafting package -- everything inherintly stems from a 2D representation
21:47.31brlcadwith brl-cad and solid modeling in general, that's the "model" or geometry .. but I think I see what you'
21:47.35brlcadyou're saying now
21:48.41brlcadthere'd be a pretty big benefit for having an import tool that lets you do as you describe, even if only to allow an easy means to display/rename post-import
21:49.58brlcadmany cad packages auto-name these days resulting in horrible default names, others use a part or manufacturer's number which is slightly better but still just as opaque when there are 10,000 objects named RJ82756H192
21:52.51starseekerRight.  Sorry about using the wrong term :-(
21:53.21starseekerIt should be a fairly simple script to set up, unless we want to go fancy with a GUI dialog...
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22:25.29brlcadheh
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22:57.25yukonbobhello, whirled
23:05.51brlcadhowdy!
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23:34.55yukonbobhello, starseeker, brlcad
23:43.36brlcadstarseeker: yeah, not too complicated a script -- though the money would be on having an efficient user-friendly gui
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080125

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080125

01:16.55*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
01:38.20starseekerbrlcad:  Well, maybe we can start with a script and work up...
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04:05.08starseeker``Erik:  eh?
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06:37.09CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30085 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: annotate that the ogl framebuffer seems to be recently (last few months) horribly busted on at least a couple platforms (e.g. mac os x)
06:41.57CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30086 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: pix-fb -p tested and works as documented, not calling the fb_close and exiting until after the sleep pause
07:01.29CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30087 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/parse.c: revert the bu_strlcpy/bu_strlcat in here, there are still string truncations going on somewhere
07:04.29CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30088 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: classic mged seems to be busted now too.. doesn't read mged_prompt() .. need to debug/check string processing
07:08.33CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30089 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: pushing a primitive seems to work just fine. no problems encountered. (this was done in response to recent crash bug with xpush mentioned during a CCB meeting, wanted to test just to be sure push was okay)
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07:36.41CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30090 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/cmd.c: quell bu_brlcad_data constness warning and fix dbconcat error reporting 'concat' instead of the command actually invoked
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15:58.54``Erik"I'm a programmer, I don't have to spell correctly; I just have to spell consistently."
16:24.48Z80-BoyI have a question regarding international NDA
16:25.17Z80-BoySome company is offering a job and for the interview they are requiring me to sign a NDA. But the NDA contract party and the dispute venue (court) is specified in California.
16:25.38Z80-BoyThat means if there were any dispute (which can be without me doing actually anything wrong), I would have to travel to California?
16:25.42Z80-BoyPossibly multiple times?
16:28.08archivistoverwrite the town to your town before signing
16:28.22archivistand your countries law
16:28.28Z80-BoyI asked for that
16:28.49Z80-BoyAnd they said they will ask inside and then they returned with a reply it's not possible they cannot customize this contract.
16:29.07Z80-BoySo I guess if I do that they won't permit me into the building
16:30.06archivistheh are they worth working for
16:30.06Z80-BoyWell Forbes Magazine claims is the #1 company in terms how nice it's to work there
16:30.22Z80-BoyAnd multiple friends from the free software world say the same
16:30.25Z80-BoyBut they are secretive.
16:30.44Z80-BoyThe factical part of the NDA actually isn't overly restrictive for me. Just fine.
16:31.00Z80-BoyNot Forbes Fortune 500 I think
16:33.29archivistmethinks the choice is yours (perhaps get local legal advice) especially any axtradition clases and agreements that the USA like to impose on countries
16:33.36archivistclauses
16:34.16Z80-BoyAnother thing is they require a training in California so I would have to submit my fingerprints into the US system which I don't trust
16:35.15Z80-BoyIt's actually a warning sing of company inflexibility if they are unable to change that.
16:35.36Z80-BoyI guess they don't need it at all because they can solve any disputes through their local subsidiary.
16:36.05*** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=CYapp@85.muba.balt.washdctt.dsl.att.net)
16:36.11starseekerBoo
16:38.32Z80-BoyPlus during the interviews I had a feeling like "try to do something a different way that we expect and you'll see things"
16:38.45archivistew
16:38.50Z80-BoyIsn't that a bad sign?
16:39.00Z80-BoyBad gut feeling :)
16:43.00archivist"you will comply" in Dalek voice
16:43.51archivistbut sometimes benefits outway the cons
16:47.26Z80-BoyWell a probability needs to be estimated that Google generates a lawsuit even when I comply
16:47.46Z80-Boyand then estimate a probability distribution of the number of court standings and multiply with airline cost
16:47.58Z80-Boyand multiply that with airline safety qotient and human life value
16:48.09Z80-BoyThen compare the result with the difference in salaries and benefits :)
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20:06.52starseekerZ80-Boy: Doing job interviews?
20:19.20Z80-Boystarseeker: yes
20:19.29Z80-BoyWith a secretive company ;-)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080126

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080126

00:07.31*** join/#brlcad CIA-30 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
03:46.55*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-080-199.pools.arcor-ip.net)
04:38.33brlcadthe geometry browser could be so much better, feel free to "make it better" :)
05:05.38*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
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11:15.05Axman6brlcad: file a ticket :P
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080127

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080127

02:35.12*** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
07:51.49CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30094 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: erik upgraded the bundled tcl/tk from 8.5a1 to 8.5 final now that the tcl/tk folks have finally released the blessed update
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21:34.37*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@d66-183-239-30.bchsia.telus.net)
21:34.48yukonbobhello, cadheads
22:41.11brlcadhowdy bob
23:00.54yukonbobis this for .g files?
23:01.54brlcadyeah
23:02.41louipchttp://www.theonion.com/content/video/
23:02.43brlcadthe command already exists, but it's rather limited, picky, and uninformative .. likely to surprise the user in some cases
23:02.51yukonbobcan distribute libraries of objects and shoot them to/from other libs/projects?
23:03.11brlcadnow you can specify arbitrary prefix/suffix or let it auto-increment a prefix/suffix and it does the right thing
23:03.38brlcadand lets you know when there was a name collision if there was one
23:04.17brlcadyukonbob: erm, that's not exactly what dbconcat does, but there is another command in the package that does do that
23:04.20yukonbobhrmm -- /me has no sign of dbconcat in his 7.10.4 distrib.
23:04.25brlcador is at least an example for doing that :)
23:04.29brlcadit's an mged command
23:04.46yukonbobmged ftw!
23:04.49brlcadif you run file->import or dbconcat on the mged prompt
23:04.56yukonbobah...
23:06.26yukonbobbrlcad: what's the sched. for next release?
23:07.16brlcadearly feb if the remining TODO items get resolved this week
23:07.47yukonbobrock'n [fscking] roll!!
23:07.50yukonbob:)
23:07.57yukonbobis the TODO posted?
23:08.12brlcadit's in the sources
23:08.19brlcadalways in the sources ;)
23:08.26yukonbobUTSL ;)
23:08.44brlcadhttps://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/TODO
23:09.03yukonbobspeaking of co
23:09.12yukonbobare you pretty happy w/ svn now?
23:09.17brlcadquite
23:09.36yukonbobgood -- is ready for primetime production use now?
23:12.16brlcadsvn?
23:13.06brlcadyeah, they've been pretty stable ever since sourceforge enabled them as an option for projects .. there were a flurry of related fixes that came after that, but then it's been pretty solid ever since
23:13.19brlcadand that was more than a year ago
23:14.56yukonboboh no -- I mean specifically w/ this repo -- ie: there was initial problem w/ mime-types (that one obviously solved) -- otherwise this specific BRL-CAD repo is good?
23:15.27brlcadahh, yeah, I've not encountered any more issues
23:15.41yukonbob~brlcad ++
23:16.00yukonbob^-- even though apparently doesn't count ;)
23:16.06brlcadthe biggest mimetype problem was just when it caused tcl files to come in as binary
23:16.12yukonbobright
23:16.37brlcadscript mime types still had to be fixed because of the way they changed the handlng of the auto-props file, but it was a minor issue
23:16.48yukonbobdid you just add a .tcl type? (ie: .sh would be handled similarly to what .tcl needs, right?)
23:16.59brlcadthere already was a tcl type
23:17.28brlcadsvn really likes to have mime-types, so the cvs2svn conversion tool gives you several options for trying to auto-set the mime-types
23:17.35brlcadwhich most of the time works great
23:17.55brlcadmpg files are properly marked as movies, for example, text files as text files, etc
23:18.27brlcadone of the import options was to provide a standard mime.types file (included in just about every apache install)
23:18.55brlcadalas, apache's *default* mime type handler for tcl files is application/x-tcl .. which rightly looks binary to svn
23:19.41brlcadso cvs2svn set that type on the files, which made every revision a binary file .. which is fine content-wise, except it won't let you see a binary diff
23:20.08brlcadso reimported without apache's help, using my own auto-props file (which is svn's way to specify types and other attributes)
23:20.29brlcadactually just dropped the mime.types file altogether just in case there were others
23:20.41brlcadand provided by own auto-props that just had exactly what I wanted
23:21.29brlcadthen the only problem was that the cvs2svn authors changed the way that file behaves, making it do something that svn doesn't do .. but that was the binary exec bit issue that was trivial to fix
23:21.48brlcadjust means if someone checks out an old revision, they'll have to run sh autogen.sh instead of ./autogen.sh
23:22.39yukonbobah... /me has never had to deal w/ a repo (of cvs, svn, or anything) at this level (ie: setting up a project)... I'm usually a co/update user ;)
23:25.06brlcad:)
23:25.54yukonbobchat later... enjoy the rest of your sunday :)
23:54.12CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30095 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: john anderson already/recently fixed the dbconcat of empty combinations bug, just tested and verified here that it's indeed working well now
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080128

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080128

00:05.16CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30096 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs):
00:05.16CIA-31BRL-CAD: improve and clean up dbconcat's behavior, now allowing users to specify either a
00:05.16CIA-31BRL-CAD: prefix, a suffix, no affix, or an auto-incrementing suffix/prefix when
00:05.16CIA-31BRL-CAD: importing. if there is a name conflict on import, the user is notified that
00:05.16CIA-31BRL-CAD: they didn't get what they asked for. this mod was annotated on sf bug 1816012
00:05.18CIA-31BRL-CAD: from david loman (dbconcat segfaults) that jra already fixed.
00:12.13CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30097 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: the -g/-G aspect rt options were fixed last release, now checking for the appropriate setting
00:14.00CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30098 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: john fixed the units command, was related to 8.5 upgrade not liking callers directly accessing interp->result
00:36.01CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30099 10/brlcad/trunk/ (BUGS NEWS src/librt/db_scan.c):
00:36.05CIA-31BRL-CAD: mged now no longer dies in an assertion failure when the geometry file is bogus.
00:36.07CIA-31BRL-CAD: it properly reports that things don't seem right and continues gracefully. this
00:36.09CIA-31BRL-CAD: handles the simple test case of 'touch file.g && mged -c file.g units m' that
00:36.15CIA-31BRL-CAD: was bombing out. now it detects/reports that it's a bogus geometry file and
00:36.17CIA-31BRL-CAD: marks the file read-only.
00:40.59CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30100 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: 'lt object' no longer crashes mged. presumably related to my earlier fix that made mged not crash when given lt on empty objects.
00:48.33CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30101 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS:
00:48.46CIA-31BRL-CAD: calling xpush on objects with empty trees now works, probably either related to
00:48.50CIA-31BRL-CAD: the xpush of primitives fix that erik made or the dbconcat processing of empty
00:48.56CIA-31BRL-CAD: combinations fix that john made. either way, tested and now seems to work just
00:48.58CIA-31BRL-CAD: fine (it drops the matrix since there's nothing to push it onto).
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01:58.28``Erikoh, harsh yet awesome http://www.explosm.net/comics/1156/
02:54.34brlcadheh
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06:37.27CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30102 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (avs.c backtrace.c brlcad_path.c crashreport.c): quell various additional compilation warnings
06:40.05CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30103 10/brlcad/trunk/include/brlcad_version.h: quell compilation warnings about not using brlcad_ident() by making it recursive on a condition that should never be true.
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08:18.49CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30104 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: quell warnings, use unsigned long magic checking since that's how they are treated
08:19.26CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30105 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/fchmod.c: include headers for fchmod prototype
08:20.31CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30106 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/bu_tcl.c: quell warnings, use NEAR_ZERO and match new unsigned long prototype
08:21.30CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30107 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/badmagic.c: quell extra warnings, use unsigned long for magic checks
08:22.17CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30108 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/crashreport.c: eek, fix an = vs == bug
08:23.00CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30109 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/color.c: quell extra warnings, don't test floating point values directly. use NEAR_ZERO
08:24.06CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30110 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/hash.c: quell extra warnings
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12:32.18toxygenhello, i would like to ask how to import ply (cyberware 3d scan) file into brlcad and convert it to some other format
12:32.27toxygen.obj or .dxf would be fine
12:32.33toxygenis this possible?
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13:28.23jgayns
13:32.46Axman6?
13:33.04Axman6oh, heh, forgot which chan i was on
13:38.02*** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=CYapp@85.muba.balt.washdctt.dsl.att.net)
13:43.54d_rossbergbrlcad: i'm afraid it's not so easy to get rid of the HAVE_UNIX_IO - MS Windows needs the O_BINARY flag which isn't standard in gcc, maybe i should create a define for it: HAVE_O_BINARY
13:45.47brlcadtoxygen: sure, ply-g then g-obj or g-dxf
13:47.37brlcadd_rossberg: hm, could do something similar to what was done in src/libbu/temp.c for O_TEMPORARY
13:48.05brlcadthat's another windows-only flag but provided in a way that it could come from a wrapper header and/or defined from configure
13:50.18d_rossbergok, i've seen it, that should work
13:50.34brlcadi'll see if I can write a test up for configure
13:56.57d_rossbergthis wouldn't be neccessary for the solution you used in temp.c
13:57.55brlcadhow do you mean?
13:58.42brlcadidea was in case it's needed elsewhere, so you only have that #ifndef section once and can use O_BINARY as needed to specify the binary files
13:59.30brlcadsimilar to how you can specify r+b or rb on standard i/o open calls and it doesn't care, just ignores the b
14:02.15CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30111 10/brlcad/trunk/include/common.h: how about this? define O_TEMPORARY and O_BINARY from common since they're generic and would otherwise just be included from an AH_BOTTOM or an AC_DEFINE if put into the config header
14:03.00CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30112 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/temp.c: no longer need the O_TEMPORARY block in here if common.h provides for it
14:07.54d_rossbergaha, i'll test it with my windows version ...
14:18.54CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30113 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (image.c lex.c list.c): quell extra compilation warnings, be explicit on type conversions
14:39.11CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r30114 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/config_win.h src/libbu/mappedfile.c):
14:39.11CIA-31BRL-CAD: open a binary database in binary mode
14:39.11CIA-31BRL-CAD: (O_BINARY is only in MS Windows different from 0(?))
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15:12.53``Erik*readreadread*
15:14.53``Erikhum, sill ywindows
15:15.53``ErikWwhxp
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20:53.37toxygenbrlcad: alive?
21:05.07yukonbobwow -- slow day in here today...
21:06.05toxygenyukonbob: hi
21:06.11toxygenmaybe you could help me :)
21:06.33toxygendo you know how to import ply object to brlcad and export it afterwards?
21:07.05yukonbobnot off top of head -- I'd check Volume IV of the docs, though...
21:07.38toxygen:)
21:07.45toxygenwell, there is ply-g utility
21:07.47toxygeni tried it
21:07.48toxygenbut
21:07.50yukonbobif there's info about .ply, that's where it'd be
21:07.57toxygenserenity:/usr/brlcad/stable/bin toxygen$ ./ply-g ~/Desktop/3dscan/marian3 ~/Desktop/3dscan/marian3.g
21:08.01toxygenInput file does not appear to be a PLY file!!!
21:08.10yukonbob:P
21:08.22toxygenserenity:~/Desktop/3dscan toxygen$ head marian3
21:08.22toxygenCyberware Digitizer Data
21:08.22toxygenNAME=marian3
21:08.22toxygenDATE=Wed Dec 31 16:00:00 1969
21:08.22toxygenSPACE=CYLINDRICAL
21:08.28toxygenany idea what format is this?
21:09.48yukonbobgiyf :)
21:11.37toxygenwell, it looks like proprietary format, i just wanted to know whether it reminds you of anything...
21:12.29toxygen<PROTECTED>
21:12.37toxygenthis is how i came across brlcad
21:12.44toxygenhttp://brlcad.org/overview.html
21:12.53toxygenthat format is mentioned there
21:13.26toxygenso i would really really appreciate any hint, how to do it (or which utility to use)
21:15.09starseekerI'm stuck on Windows at the moment - check for any *-g commands that would use Cyberware file extensions
21:16.56starseekercy or tmesh maybe?
21:17.56yukonbobtoxygen: I don't know specfics of it -- brlcad (the person) is usually here, and is _very_ well versed with BRL-CAD (the program) specfically and how it fits w/i "CAD" and interoperates -- he's probably your best bet...
21:18.12yukonbobhey starseeker :)
21:18.19starseekerhowdy yukonbob
21:18.24yukonbobwhat's shaking?
21:18.38starseekeranother day, another dollar
21:18.57yukonbobanother 8h contract, and 32hours spent :)
21:19.30yukonbobbbiab
21:20.46starseekerOK, I see it in the src tree - it looks like cy-g may be the command name
21:51.43CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30115 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (mappedfile.c temp.c): Mods to get things working on windows with the latest common.h mods.
21:55.10CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30116 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/ (bw-pix.c bwmod.c pix-bw.c pixmatte.c): Mods to get things working on windows with the latest common.h mods.
21:56.19CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30117 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/ (do.c viewedge.c): Open up the command options on windows.
21:58.01CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30118 10/brlcad/trunk/src/fb/fb-pix.c: Mods to get things working on windows.
21:58.44CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30119 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/ (incrTcl/itcl/generic/itclInt.h tcl/generic/tclInt.h): Mods to get things working on windows.
22:14.11CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30120 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/ (8 files in 4 dirs): Initial check-in.
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22:20.31CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30121 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: Add new files to dist
22:36.07CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30122 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/lib/PictureTypeF.itcl: Fixed a few of my own sloppy typos.
22:46.35CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30123 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: Mods to copy rtwizard.bat to installDir.
22:47.33CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30124 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/libtcl/libtcl.vcproj: Updates related to latest Tcl.
22:52.34CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30125 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Added bw2pix, bwmod, pix2bw and pixmatte.
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23:22.02brlcadtoxygen: marian3 does look like a cy/cyberware data file
23:22.15brlcadbasically it's a 3d point cloud from a laser scanner
23:22.40brlcadusually a horrible format for most purposes without lots and lot of data processing/cleanup
23:23.28brlcadit's not bringing it into an ideal brl-cad primitive, will come in as an ARS which is a faceted/waterline solid type in brl-cad
23:24.00brlcadgive the converter a try, from there you should be able to convert to a number of other formats once its in .g format
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080129

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080129

00:00.27yukonbob*brlcad, even
00:19.25toxygenbrlcad: still alive?
00:19.32toxygeni was able to make .g from it
00:19.40toxygeni loaded it into mged
00:19.45toxygeni see the red lines
00:19.49toxygenbut cannot render them
00:20.01toxygenhow to make .obj from it?
02:42.49starseekerTry the g-obj command
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03:52.36brlcadtoxygen: cannot render?
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04:10.41brlcadtoxygen: if you see the red lines, then you should be able to render.. try "rt -F/dev/Xl" in the command window .. should pop up a window with a rendering
04:30.47``Erikor click "file", then "raytrace" and play with that
07:21.52CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30126 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libtie/tie_define.h: eep, wth is DOUBLE_PRECISION? quell warning and make it TIE_DOUBLE_PRECISION.
07:59.13CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30127 10/brlcad/trunk/ (32 files in 11 dirs): (log message trimmed)
07:59.13CIA-31BRL-CAD: accept markus elfring's sf patch [ 1864112 ] "Improve const-correctness" where
07:59.13CIA-31BRL-CAD: data items that are const are so annotated. while there are undoubtedly hundred
07:59.13CIA-31BRL-CAD: (if not thousands) of such cases across the codebase, he provided a patch for
07:59.13CIA-31BRL-CAD: several dozen that were in adrt, fbed, lgt, nirt, burst, and remrt. patch was
07:59.16CIA-31BRL-CAD: half manually applied as too much had already changed since the 7.10.4 source
07:59.18CIA-31BRL-CAD: release it was based off of. credit him with thanks for finally making a proper
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14:21.30``Erikjust breaks things? :)
14:36.52Z80-BoyI reckon BRL-CAD could be ideal for machine-generated kinematic animations
14:37.18Z80-BoyFor example write a program that would take a music .mp3, break down into 7 frequency bands and animate 7 dancing figures
14:37.40Z80-BoyThen output them in BRL-CAD format, render with rt, encode into a video and add the original tune as a soundtrack.
14:37.51``Erikhrm, it's kinda weak in animation stuff, though...
14:38.02Z80-Boywhat do you mean?
14:38.29Z80-BoyThe program would output it in .g frame by frame
14:38.29Z80-BoyFor that a simple rt call suffices
14:38.43``Erikwell, like we don't have any ik type arrangement or any "keyframe" or I think bezier curve animation like a lot of packages do
14:38.46Z80-BoyI mean actually in asc and call asc2g to every frame
14:38.57``Erikohhhh, a seperate top for each frame? eck
14:38.57Z80-Boybezier?
14:38.58``Erik:)
14:39.03``Erikyeah, like uhhhhh
14:39.04Z80-BoyOMG dancing people behave by bezier curves?
14:39.17Z80-BoyCome on, this is for cheapo consumer grade Autocad-like packages :)
14:39.19``Erikno, it's just a convenient way to do a path
14:39.26Z80-BoyWe're like serious oldschoor
14:39.34Z80-Boyoldschool
14:39.36``Erikdancing people would need some kinda ik to position limbs correctly
14:39.37``Erikhrmmm
14:39.42Z80-Boyik == ?
14:39.47Z80-Boyinverse kinematic?
14:39.49``Erikbezier path the hands/feet/head and ik it together?
14:39.50``Erikyeah
14:40.33Z80-BoyOne can make them rubber
14:40.41Z80-Boyelastic
14:40.49Z80-Boybouncing all around that's computationally inexpensive
14:41.19``ErikI d'no, spring&weight systems and ik systems can be done pretty cheap
14:41.47``ErikI mean, old "unreal tournament 2003" did both interactively while running a game on reasonably low powered  hardware, the "ragdoll physics"
14:42.19Z80-Boythen put some venetian blind window and cast shadows on them
14:42.23Z80-BoyTo show how mighty we are
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15:13.06CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30128 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (4 files in 2 dirs): fix const-incorrectness (shouldn't mark things const when they're changed)
15:13.39CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30129 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libutil/display.h: missing const
15:19.28CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30130 10/brlcad/trunk/src/lgt/prnt.c: minor casting fixes to quell warnings...
15:19.49CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30131 10/brlcad/trunk/src/fbed/fbed.c: need the length for snprintf...
15:22.19CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30132 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/parse_fmt.c: cast to quell warnings
15:23.31CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30133 10/brlcad/trunk/src/vdeck/vdeck.c: quell cast size mismatch warning on 64b builds
15:30.26CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30134 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/rtwizard.bat: Initial check-in.
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17:04.53CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30135 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libutil/display.c: prototype fix for building w/o sdl
17:16.33brlcad``Erik: so is python gone from adrt?
17:16.43brlcadi didn't see an isst_python.*
17:19.11``Erikaum, at the moment
17:19.43``Eriktim gave me a wad that has a lower level python binding
17:20.08``Erikand, uh, in reading this 'bug', I see what you mean about the troll
17:33.27Z80-BoyThis channel is so intelligent
17:33.31Z80-BoyCompared to some others...
17:33.53``Erikheh, sorry, we can try to be more like #skateboardstoners or #pokemon if that'd make you more comfortable
17:34.02``Erik:D
17:34.22Z80-BoyNO I mean like intelligent = better
17:34.38Z80-BoyLike sometimes they label me a troll just because I have a minority opinion
17:34.44Z80-BoyOr because I have a lengthy discussion
17:35.02``Erikopinions and discussions are good
17:35.11``Erikpointing out obvious stuff in an insulting fashion is not
17:36.33Z80-BoyNever heard about that :)
17:36.43``Erik(though it might kinda be a cultural thing, I've seen more than a couple german code weenies come off like that)
17:37.00Z80-BoyBanning insulting people always ends up like in the football
17:37.20Z80-BoyIf you want to annoy someone then you act like having been insulted and this way you can make him get punished quite reliably
17:42.43CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30136 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): remove SDL and python shtuff.
17:47.48CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30137 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/scripts/shiva.sh: trivial script depends on hosts, other unpublished scripts and old binary names... let's just can it.
17:48.11CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30138 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/scripts/Makefile.am: trivial script depends on hosts, other unpublished scripts and old binary names... let's just can it.
17:49.15CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30139 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/Makefile.am: add scripts/ to subdirs
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18:24.15CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30140 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tk/ (355 files in 17 dirs): upgrade to tk 8.5.0 release
19:27.24CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30141 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/lib/ (MGEDpage.itk PictureTypeE.itcl PictureTypeF.itcl): Mods to fix getting/setting/using ghost intensity.
19:32.20CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30142 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/rtwizard.tcl: Mods to activate the image and help menus. Also handling WM_DELETE_WINDOW protocol so bwish is not left hanging around.
19:35.21CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30143 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/lib/Wizard.itk: Initially the Image and Help menus are disabled. Added activeMenu method.
19:38.51CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30144 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/lib/DbPage.itk: The OK button is now disabled until a file is selected. Added the activateOKButton method.
19:40.16CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30145 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/rtwizard.bat: Mods to handle an argument.
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19:50.53CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30146 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libbu/Makefile.am librt/Makefile.am proc-db/Makefile.am): improved dependancy handling
19:51.18CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30147 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: set openNURBS to auto
19:51.22CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30148 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/Makefile.defs: echo dependancy name before recursing
19:52.33CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30149 10/brlcad/trunk/include/wdb.h: minor re-arrangement of metaball point in anticipation of line controls
20:04.11CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30150 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/lib/DbPage.itk: Minor improvements to the activateOKButton method.
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22:56.21CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30151 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: needs to ignore the .svn dir too
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080130

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080130

02:19.45*** join/#brlcad vedge (i=vedge@vedge.org)
03:03.49*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
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08:21.01toxygenbrlcad: thx for hints
08:44.07*** join/#brlcad Axman6_ (n=Axman6@210-9-143-108.netspeed.com.au)
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09:49.09brlcadwell that should take care of the space problem
09:49.32brlcadserver was accummulating nearly 400GB/day in backups and logging data
09:49.37brlcadmoreso backups
09:49.52brlcader, s/GB/MB/
09:51.02brlcadmaxing out just before the beginning of a month (e.g. now) when the mysql backups get rotated .. was using nearly 12GB just for one db alone
10:01.13archivistat least you have backups, it #mysql its amazing how many do not "how do i get my data back?"
10:01.20archivistit/in
10:07.53brlcadyeah, it's all good .. it was just a big excessive for that one db
10:08.41brlcadchanged it's profile so it'll only backup every three days now, so it'll only use about 3GB in a given month for the level 0's before they're condensed to a level 1 monthly
10:08.51brlcader, level 0 monthly
10:09.02brlcaddaily to monthly
10:09.12brlcadit's late/early, I know what I mean at least :)
10:13.32archivistwe often recomend replication which can be used as a continuous backup (hot slave) and then backup the slave
10:14.02archivista mysql nicety
10:16.48brlcadyeah, that would be a nice thing to do for the server in germany
10:16.59brlcadmaybe after the migration completes
10:18.21brlcadthat's been part of the idea since that server's entire purpose is to (eventually) be a semi-hot-swap backup for bz should it be needed
10:19.24brlcadlike to perform an OS upgrade, just update DNS, backup server is on-line responding while old is worked on picking up where it left off
10:19.58brlcadhoping to get fully symmetric backups for that (and not just mysql), maybe pipe dream but still tbd depending on the effort
10:27.51brlcadtoxygen: you're welcome -- how're things working out?  were you able to get the cy data file imported and ray-traced?
10:39.53brlcadtoxygen: I saw the .g you uploaded... that sure doesn't look right to say the least.  their format may have changed, I'll see if I can play with your data files this weekend
10:40.18brlcadis there any difference between 1, 2, and 3?
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13:04.58toxygenbrlcad: thank you very much
13:54.52``Erikhummm, my rdbms's are all single instnace dealies, I have the backign files marked "no-backup", and my nightly backup script does a database dump into a file before running dump
13:55.50``Erikchflags nodump on bsd, um, linux uses some like chattr command with cryptic letter codes iirc
13:56.18``Eriknodump on the files that shouldn't be backed up saves a LOT in space :)
14:08.14brlcadI backup offsite, I have absolute no space problems there -- the problem was local mysqldump backups where there are dailies for the current month and monthlies for all prior months
14:08.49brlcadthe mysql backups were what has been filling the disks .. one of the db's has a ton of data
14:09.09``Erikah, I overwrite my sql dump file
14:09.11brlcadeven with a ton of data, that just all goes offsite without a problem
14:09.52``Erikstill no point in moving a lot of the larger unnecessary files, like the binary mysql files when you have ascii dumps handy *shrug*
14:09.53brlcadoffsite is at home, I can just buy extra TB as I need it
14:10.15``Erikspeaking of, I should probably buy another disk, I'm getting crunched again
14:12.14brlcadprobably would be, but I don't really worry about it -- I just have it sync the entire fs, /dev and all, periodically
14:12.46brlcadmore practical (to me) than running dump as the files are just sitting on the remote and can be reviewed/restored really easily
14:13.23``Erikah, I tend to dump and pipe through bzip2, so I have a good history
14:13.33``ErikI've had people whine that they over-wrote a file a week ago and need the old version b ack
14:15.15CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30152 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tk/ (10 files in 5 dirs): these files don't exist in tk8.5.0
14:16.20brlcadwas stashing configure and a few other gen'd files intentional?
14:16.43``Erikno
14:17.25``Erikcleaning things up now
14:17.26brlcadand yeah, I really don't care about those whiners, their low-level f'ups are their own issues .. I just care about easy non-invasive data-preserving high-level backups
14:17.39brlcadk
14:19.10``Eriksvn holds things different, so my old cvs fu doesn't work the same
14:19.26alex_jonibrlcad: seen rsnapshot?
14:19.28brlcadtoxygen's .g file with an ARS is either taking hours to prep or is stuck in an infinite loop .. 3 hours and counting now
14:19.55``ErikO.o interesting
14:20.37brlcadalex_joni: no I hadn't, that is a bit interesting.. and familiar *ahem*
14:21.30brlcadbut only tinglingly interesting.. that would safe size on the remote, but that's utterly low on the list of things that need improving
14:21.54``Erikyeah, need to do server migration first O:-)
14:22.16brlcadjust having a full fs copy is what is needed 9/10ths of the time a file/dir needs restoring
14:22.23brlcadyeah, maybe with new server, give it a go
14:24.02``ErikI'd say "it's ok, she'll come back next time you're asleep", but knowing you, it's probably a code dream
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14:29.59brlcadheh
14:39.23alex_jonibrlcad: it saved me getting to know rsync & co.. setup was painless (on a new install)
14:47.41``Erik<-- is a luddite, likes dump/restore :(
14:48.04``Erik(and 'interactive restore' is nice)
15:06.39CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30153 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/ (load.c load.h slave.c): begin abstracting the load path
15:54.26brlcadhowdy Maloeran
15:54.52MaloeranFine fine, I'm presently in Venezuela, it's a bit tricky to stay connected on a regular basis
15:55.10MaloeranSince a laptop is worth about an year's income here, it's not something you want to take out too openly, and wireless internet networks don't exist
15:55.49MaloeranI'm also trying to commit a huge piece of code and Survice's CVS server keeps throwing me "waiting for cvs's lock in ..."
15:56.15MaloeranHow are things in your region of the universe?
16:05.51``Erikhah, greetings, mal
16:06.59``Erik("the dead" is already plural, no s... english sucks)
16:07.34MaloeranOh. :) I'm more busy with learning spanish these days
16:07.58MaloeranGrah, stupid cvs lock thing
16:08.14MaloeranAll right, I'm off to climb a 5000m mountain
16:08.29``Eriklater, dude, don't fall off :)
16:08.35Maloeran:) *waves*
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17:12.02CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30154 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/librender/component.c: use the adrt.h mesh defines instead of libcommon/adrt_common.h
17:13.00CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30155 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libcommon/Makefile.am: don't build libcommon
17:23.37brlcadMaloeran: va bien, que haces en Venezuela?  por que estas alli?  vacciones?
17:28.31CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30156 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/Makefile.am: don't use libcommon
17:30.08CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30157 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/rtarea.1: separate names with a newline
17:33.23CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30158 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tk/unix/configure: remove generated configure
17:53.57``Erikoh, heh
17:54.02``ErikI got a bunch of stuff in tk that I svn rm'd
17:54.09CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30159 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (28 files in 7 dirs): use libbu's memory management routines
17:55.23``Eriksync
17:55.23``Erikls
17:55.26``Erikbahhh
18:00.44CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30160 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libutil/image.c: allow the save_ppm func to build (used in isst)
18:15.34*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@77.237.113.211)
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18:28.50``Erikuh
18:29.08``Erikwow
18:43.57CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30161 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libtie/tie_kdtree.c: fixed a couple random crash bugs, improved memory manage messages, etc
19:10.14Maloeranbrlcad, ya que trabajo a distancia, viajo un poco para ver el mundo. Vivir aqui esta mas barato que Montreal, includido los tickets de avion
19:10.57MaloeranI begun learning spanish a month ago ( but very intensively ), I'm amazed by how easy it is to learn a language
19:12.10``ErikI know in US highschools, spanish is "the easiest" foreign language class and french is historically thought of as "the hardest"
19:12.35``Erik(though japanese and chinese are showing up more and more, and the different writing systems add a dimension of complexity)
19:12.47MaloeranI don't think the spanish grammar is really easier than french, they are somewhat similar actually
19:13.50MaloeranIt's amusing how they use certain tenses which, in french, are exclusively found in elaborate litterature... and vice-versa
19:14.08``Erikboth have distant ties to latin *shrug*
19:14.35MaloeranBah, I'm really tired of these CVS lock errors
19:14.48``Erikmoreso than english, which has heavy influences from german and gaelic
19:15.07MaloeranI think that whenever I ctrl+c a cvs commit, because I forgot to add a file or whatever, the cvs server gets stuck because some "lock" file was not removed
19:15.10``Eriksomeone probably has to shell into the cvs server and remove the lock files manually
19:15.13MaloeranAnd I have to yell at Survice until things work again
19:15.42``Erikfire code? or rayfarce?
19:16.02MaloeranRayfarce, we are supposed to ship some binaries to Disney soon
19:16.19``Erikyou should put it in the BRL-CAD repository, well maintained, accessable, using subversion now... :D
19:16.20``Erik*duck*
19:16.38MaloeranEheh :)
19:17.48MaloeranThat's really a stupid bug if the cvs server can not handle a broken connection, a ctr+c or whatever else
19:23.52MaloeranDie cvs, go join your friends autoconf and libtool and die!
19:24.16``Erikheh
19:26.15MaloeranRayfarce is pretty much Linux, BSD and Windows only now
19:28.37MaloeranWith 3000 lines of amd64/SSE3 assembly among other things... :)
19:28.41``Erikobviously :D
19:28.51``Erikand I imagine windows requires cygwin, not mingw32
19:28.59MaloeranAh no, it runs in mingw32
19:29.02``Erikotherwise autoconf/libtool would be hugely beneficial
19:29.04``Erik:)
19:29.06MaloeranWith pthreads-win32
19:29.56MaloeranIt also uses its own "cpuconf" tool which probes the processor to get the size of the caches, the cache width, instruction timing, etc.
19:30.15Maloerancache line width, that is
19:30.28``Erikhm, I thought windows (nt4.0 and later) had a pthread implementation (but not exposed in any headers, and with minor name munging)
19:30.57MaloeranAh possibly, I just used pthreads-win32
19:31.36``Erik<-- still waits to see it go open source :) vagually recalls something in some contract somewhere about that ... O:-)
19:32.37MaloeranTrue, Lee and Mark agreed on something else in the end
19:33.13``Erikhehehe, but that was verbal, so the paper over-rides it... :D
19:34.22MaloeranEh well. It could be fun to get into some parternship with Disney on this
19:36.04CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30162 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (master/Makefile.am slave/Makefile.am): rename isst_{master,slave} to adrt_... since it's now generalized
19:36.26``Erikmeanwhile I'm stuck with this O.o :D
19:37.01MaloeranAw :)
19:37.47MaloeranThe CVS change log I had written is so huge, I just want.. to... commit...
19:44.57``Erikheh, later dude :)
20:03.49CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30163 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/load.c: now approaching critical ugliness
21:08.17CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30164 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/librt/dg_obj.c src/mged/rtif.c):
21:08.21CIA-31BRL-CAD: get/check the exit code of the process so that rt doesn't just say it completed.
21:08.27CIA-31BRL-CAD: have it report that it failed if the return status is non-zero. mods include
21:08.31CIA-31BRL-CAD: the calls for windows so needs some testing. implemented in response to user
21:08.41CIA-31BRL-CAD: confusion over failed rt runs that die early or never start and having mged say
21:08.45CIA-31BRL-CAD: they completd.
21:08.57*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54874023.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:09.15CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30165 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 5 dirs):
21:09.19CIA-31BRL-CAD: make openNURBS a build requirement, so we have to either build it or use a
21:09.29CIA-31BRL-CAD: system openNURBS library now .. will need to test/fix compilations on other
21:09.33CIA-31BRL-CAD: platforms but this does hopefully fix some of the linux build problems john was
21:09.41CIA-31BRL-CAD: seeing on ubuntu.
21:52.33CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30166 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: update dependancy
21:55.26brlcadtclcad depends on blt?
21:55.36brlcadoh, Blt_Init maybe?
21:56.10brlcadin that case, also depends on tcl, tk, itcl, itk
21:57.05``Erikthose're handled recursively I think
21:57.35``Erikadding blt fixed the compile error (make clean ; cd target ; make depends all)
21:58.20brlcadah, k
21:58.25brlcadjust curious
22:01.14CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30167 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: parker has made mods to the intensity handling for ghosted images, the main display no longer displays the extra/premature/misleading menu options (Edit, Steps)
22:02.12``Erikheh
22:02.14``Erikpimp my cad
22:14.36CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30168 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: parker also added/ported several missing framebuffer tools including those needed by archer. includes bw-pix, bwmod, pix-bw, pixmatte. probably others.
22:53.41*** join/#brlcad jgay (n=jgay@fsf/staff/jgay)
23:42.21*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080131

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080131

01:56.17brlcadsuch a great presentation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSFDm3UYkeE
02:44.36yukonbobeta 50minutes -- :P
02:47.07brlcad:)
02:47.31brlcadit's worth it if you've not seen it and you participate in an open source project's community
02:47.40brlcad(which you do) :)
02:47.46yukonbobhey -- saw the books, and the notes :) -- thx
02:48.27brlcadben and brian are pretty well spoken, some fairly straightforward points, some obvious, some not so obvious -- but they put labels and emphasis to some behaviors that is useful ;)
02:48.37brlcadreally?
02:49.10*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-094-019.pools.arcor-ip.net)
02:49.11brlcadyukon up in .ca ?
02:49.16yukonbobyup
02:49.29brlcadnifty -- you work there or live there or something?
02:50.33yukonbobthat's where Whitehorse is -- living -- not too much for work up here for me, so I'm an online geek -- "working" in/with Vancouver, Seattle, Toronto, UK, Australia...
02:50.55brlcadnice
02:52.38yukonbobmy gf brought us up this time -- she's a cultural anthropologist doing her fieldwork up here...
02:53.11brlcadbeing able to telework from anywhere has to have some major perks
02:54.35yukonbobwell, it makes it possible ;) -- it really is pretty impressive, though... I remember my first 'puter (Vic20), and introduction of faxes, BBSs, internet, etc. -- surely impressive how far we've come along -- and at same time, what's stuck around -- ia32 architecture, *nix... BRL-CAD ;)
02:55.51brlcadhehe
02:56.09yukonbobTcl ;)
02:56.15brlcadi'd say good things die hard, but then that doesn't explain ia32 :)
02:56.30yukonbobya -- it's a notable odd-duck in that list...
02:56.48brlcadduck duck duck *goose*!
02:57.35``Erikdos/windows
02:57.40``Erikmice
02:57.42``Erik...
02:57.55``Erikbad things die hard, too :D
02:58.36``Erikhehehe, bbs's... hayes 300baud modems on the card type rs232
02:58.39``Erikpheer
02:58.56``Erikso badass, you don't even need an audio coupler and telephone to log into the bbs's!
02:59.27yukonbobhowdy ``Erik :)
02:59.54``Erikhttp://www.zimmers.net/cbmpics/cbm/modems/1670.gif
03:00.06``Erik<-- had one of those, and a 300 that looked the same but had a black slide switch on the top
03:01.27``Erikheh
03:01.28``Erikuhhhh
03:01.36``Erikcompuserve ? uhhh, qlink?
03:02.23``Erikpoke 53280,0
03:02.27``Erikpoke 53281,0
03:02.31``Erikleet hackr commodore now
03:02.39yukonbobhey, leave my screen alone!
03:02.43``Erik:D
03:02.44yukonbobtop item --
03:02.56``Erikthose were usually the firt two commands I did on start
03:03.44``Erikme too
03:03.50``Erikon a c64 actually
03:03.53yukonbobyup
03:04.26yukonbobon vic20, I changed char sets to the "double-tall" and re-bitmapped them... that was the extent of my "leet" hacking...
03:04.39yukonboboh -- and filling kb buffer to autoload programs
03:05.15``Erikheh, I remember putting a joystick routine into the isr vector, don't remember what I ddi with it
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03:05.36``Erikand things like incrementing the background color registers
03:07.18``Erikheh "the hare club for men"
03:08.08yukonbob(lightpens read light, don't emit)
03:08.11``Erikhehehe, I had a light pen, too... always seemed twitchy
03:08.23``Erikand the mouse I had was crap
03:09.37yukonbobthen of course moved to Amiga (more awesome), and then PC's, and luckily, Linux very early on...
03:12.42brlcadcompuserve ftw!
03:22.20``Erikheh, I clung to my commodores until '96 when I had a ~6mo bout of windows, then immediately fled to linux
03:24.54yukonbobA2000, A3000 -- shoulda kept A500 -- cute machine
03:26.04yukonbobfrom an era when machines were cool...
03:27.26louipcare bananas expensive in the yukon?
03:28.34yukonboblouipc: I was just in Crowsnest Pass (s. of Calgary) and remember picking up Milk in a gas station for $5-something -- and same size up here in grocery store (where you'd expect cheaper) was $6-something...
03:29.00yukonbobexpect cheaper == gas station vs. grocery store...
03:29.57yukonbobthough, around Calgary is a weird economy anyway -- oil is doing very well, and everything is inflated...
03:30.03louipcyea some of those convenience stores offer cheaper milk
03:30.28yukonbobWhitehorse can still be an expensive place to be -- I much prefer Toronto...  :)
03:31.04yukonbobthough, Whitehorse has better fishing
03:31.40louipchah yeah you can't eat lake ontario fish
03:32.57yukonbobfishing in Whitehorse/Alaska is best thing going for it for me... used to be the girls, but I've got a steady gf now, and a kid, so those days are over
03:33.29yukonbobs/Whitehorse/Yukon/
03:33.53louipcwhoa yukon for the girls eh? nice
03:34.01yukonbobyup -- it's worth a trip
03:36.36louipcSpring Break Yukon!
03:36.49yukonbobLOL -- look out Florida
03:37.14yukonbobspeaking of Ottawa, /me wonders if he'll get to BSDCan this year...
04:04.40``Erikbastage
04:05.13*** join/#brlcad Winny (n=KyleVE@unaffiliated/winny)
04:05.25brlcadmm. bsdcon
04:05.45brlcadif solid modeling wasn't in new york this year, I'd be inclined to press for either it or gamedev
04:06.03``Erikbsdcon went away long ago
04:06.13brlcadsry, usenix
04:06.15``Erikit's all bsdcan or nybug
04:06.34``Erik<-- shakes fist at usenix for dropping bsdcon
04:06.43brlcadi saw it as absorbed into bsdcon, not dropped :)
04:06.51``Erikhuh?
04:06.51brlcader, usenix
04:06.53brlcaddamnits
04:06.57*** join/#brlcad Winny8 (n=63f0fb6c@bz.bzflag.bz)
04:07.01``Erikbsdcon was part of usenix
04:07.08``Eriklike, "sponsored by" or something
04:07.15``Erikand during it, iirc
04:07.16Winnybrlcad, your CGI:IRC is broken.
04:07.17brlcadbsdcon "absorbed" into the greater usenix
04:07.28brlcadWinny: looks like it's working for you
04:07.36``Erikkinda like the vatst/vis dealie
04:07.40Winnybrlcad, I closed that windows 10 min ago.
04:08.23brlcadWinny: I reset apache about 10 min ago or so to reload a config .. that would have hosed cgi:irc connections
04:09.10Winnyhmm, it wasn't connecting, so I closed the window, 10 min ago on my watch.
04:09.24``Erikhopefully the next apache hiccup will involve new hw :D
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05:02.23yukonbobinteresting video
05:40.05brlcadyeah, good stuff
08:14.13*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
08:14.13*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release 7.12.0 coming soon to a desktop near you
09:33.15Axman6you can do it!
10:50.47brlcadnever!
10:57.15brlcadpoolio: fyi, I'm presenting beset today, I'll see if I can get you a copy of the presentation I whipped up later
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15:12.13pooliobrlcad: wowza! shoulda told me, I had the start of a presentation lying around...Hope it goes well :)
16:30.47*** join/#brlcad Lisper (n=Lisper@unaffiliated/lisper)
16:30.52Lisperhi
16:37.22*** join/#brlcad Lisper (n=Lisper@unaffiliated/lisper)
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17:28.52CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30169 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln:
17:28.52CIA-31BRL-CAD: Added the following projects: asc2pix asc2nmg bot2bldxf bot2raw bot_shell2vtk
17:28.52CIA-31BRL-CAD: cy2g dxf2g enf2g euclid_format euclid_unformat euclid2g g2acad g2adrt g2dxf
17:28.52CIA-31BRL-CAD: g2euclid1 g2euclid g2nff g2nmg g2obj g2shellrect g2tankill g2var g2vrml g2x3d
17:28.52CIA-31BRL-CAD: g42g5 g52g4 nastran2g nmg2bot nmg2rib nmg2sgp pix2asc ply2g poly2bot tankill-g
17:28.54CIA-31BRL-CAD: vg2
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17:46.34CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30170 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/ (dxf2g/dxf2g.vcproj g2dxf/g2dxf.vcproj): Upgraded to MSVC 8.0
17:47.09CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30171 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/ (66 files in 33 dirs): Initial check-in.
18:02.58CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30172 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/viewpoint2g/ (. viewpoint2g.vcproj): Initial check-in.
18:54.44louipcholy shite
18:57.23yukonbobpoolio: beset is your contribution, right?
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19:36.40CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30173 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: Added a few project files to EXTRA_DIST.
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20:16.18CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30174 10/brlcad/trunk/include/config_win.h: Included fcntl.h and added a few #define.
20:16.56CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30175 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: Added declaration for nmg_vlist_to_eu().
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21:05.57poolioyukonbob: I suppose :]
21:59.35CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30176 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/ (31 files): Mods to get things working on Windows.
22:03.56CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30177 10/brlcad/trunk/include/config_win.h: Change uintXX_t #defines to typedefs.
22:09.53``Erik"what makes you think we're andorian?" "well, you're too big to be a smurf"
22:10.13poolioI think you've lost it ``Erik
22:11.03``Erik:D
22:11.26CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30178 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/tclcad.c: On windows, include fcntl.h to quell warnings about O_BINARY macro redefinition.
22:12.57CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30179 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/temp.c: Remove unnecessary includes.
23:13.50CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30180 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/dg_obj.c: Added missing retcode in the windows section.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080201

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080201

00:26.55*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
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02:05.17``Erikonce again, incremental backups have saved my hind
02:05.33``Erik(mental note; update on a large table with no 'where' clause is bad)
02:07.31``ErikO.o I thrashed a web page database
02:37.11yukonbob:)
02:37.51yukonbobkinda like "rm -fr / home/erik/foo" as root
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04:32.06PrezKennedyso i dont think accounting will be sending me a christmas card this year
04:32.54PrezKennedyi only hosed them up for 6 hours the past 2 days... plenty of time for them to master minesweeper at least
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14:27.49``Erikwow, my freshmeat 'changes' chunk went through without editing
14:42.32``Erikhttp://www.xkcd.com/
14:42.39``Erik"real programmers use..."
15:08.09CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30181 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/image.c: PPM save support
15:08.54CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30182 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libutil/ (Makefile.am image.c image.h): libbu is now responsible for saving images
15:34.14CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30183 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/image.c): change image data type to be unsigned
15:40.15CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30184 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/bwdiff.c: use bu_exit() instead of bu_log (I think that's what was intended)
15:42.24MaloeranEheh, nice comic
15:43.18MaloeranAnd woohoo, the commit went through finally. +30000 lines, -13000 lines, you could say it was about time
15:44.07``Erikheh, saw the email O.o :)
15:44.21Maloeran:)
15:52.27MaloeranOh erik, any idea how other OSes will react to mmap()ing gigabytes of read-only memory?
15:52.47``Erikum, archaic ones might freak out
15:52.53MaloeranThe idea is just to reserve big chunks of consecutive addresses for further uses, of course
15:52.53``Erikwindows will probably flip
15:53.05MaloeranOh? It's a free operation on Linux obviously
15:53.23``Erikopensolaris and fbsd should be "right there", linux probably is ok with it after 2.6,
15:53.30MaloeranWhat about the other Unixes?
15:53.37MaloeranI see
15:54.13MaloeranI don't want OSes to try to reserve 128gb of swap space or something
15:54.24MaloeranAs Linux would if the memory was initially read-write
15:54.27``Erikmmap is a pretty trivial operation on any half-sane unix, the biggie is being able to address it
15:54.34Maloeran( without MMAP_NORESERVE, etc. )
15:54.38``Erikyeah, linux is pretty stupid about swap management
15:54.40``ErikO:-)
15:54.53``Erikthe bsd family all does COW even on mmap'd stuff
15:55.08MaloeranCOW?
15:55.11``Erikso you can mmap a terabyte file with only 128 megs around
15:55.13``Erikcopy on write
15:55.34MaloeranAh sure, so does Linux obviously
15:55.50MaloeranThe point is that the OS may try to "garantee" that the memory exists, as it won't segfault when trying to access it
15:55.56MaloeranHence reserving the swap space for it
15:56.22``Erikhm, I've never actually seen an oom on bsd with mmap, and I do big mmaps on small machines
15:56.34``ErikI've seen linux crap itself readily and badly in that kinda situation
15:56.51``Erik(if it's mmap'd, it's backed by the FILE, so only a fucking retard would reserve swap space... typical linux, tho ;)
15:56.53MaloeranBut I'm talking about a mmap that is not backed by any file
15:56.57``ErikO.o
15:57.03MaloeranLike 128gb of MMAP_ANONYMOUS mmap
15:57.03``Erikuh, what're you mmapping?
15:57.18MaloeranNothing, just reserving memory space for further uses
15:57.27``Erikhrm, I d'no, I don't use those
15:57.41MaloeranI need a big chunk of consecutive addresses and I have no idea how much of it I will actually use
15:57.48``Erikhave yet to see where they offer any advantage
15:57.53MaloeranLinux does not mind if I reserve a tetrabyte that way through mmap()
15:58.18``Erikhrm
15:58.35MaloeranAny thoughts?
15:58.35``Eriklinux doesn't have memory management routines that cope with demands of contiguity? (is that a word, even?)
15:58.49``Eriklike, I'd use contigmalloc() on fbsd
15:59.09MaloeranHum, no.. Not sure what that does
15:59.36MaloeranI do my own memory management anyway, but I need big chunks of packed addresses for certain things
15:59.39``Erik(tho phkmalloc guarantees singly malloc'd chunks to be contiguous iirc.. no mmap hackery that opens up security holes out the wazoo)
16:00.18``Erikyou don't trust linux's LAB mapping? :)
16:00.55MaloeranThat's not the point, the memory addresses *must* be tightly packed in the virtual memory space
16:00.56``Erikso just malloc in multiples of page size
16:01.22MaloeranThere's absolutely no garantee there
16:01.55brlcadkorean in 30
16:02.28MaloeranHow do you think BSD will react if I mmap() 128gb of MMAP_ANONYMOUS read-only memory?
16:03.02``Erikd'no, haven't tried it
16:03.07``Erikdon't you have a bsd machine? :)
16:03.09MaloeranOr does it offer any other mechanism to reserve a big chunk of virtual mapping?
16:04.01MaloeranLinux offers plenty of mechanisms to manage the virtual mapping, I was trying to find a Posix-compliant way with the mmap stuff, without using any Linux-specific options
16:38.15CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30185 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: the bug of mged outright not working is no longer a problem
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18:14.20``Erik<-- hasn't worried about big mem crap like that, doesn't know *shrug*
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20:52.16CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03tossup * r30186 10/jbrlcad/trunk/ (14 files in 13 dirs):
20:52.17CIA-31BRL-CAD: Moved geometry, preppedGeometry, spacePartition, numerics, and samples
20:52.19CIA-31BRL-CAD: directories to src directory. Moved test.asc file to test directory.
21:00.31``ErikO.O
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21:29.23``Erikleebert
22:04.53*** join/#brlcad obfucius (n=casey@adsl-99-128-43-142.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net)
22:06.20obfuciusWhere can I submit a bug rep?
22:07.19brlcadhttp://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=105292&atid=640802
22:07.41brlcadmore specifically, http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=105292&atid=640802
22:08.44iraytraceevenin
22:08.49brlcadhowdy
22:09.15iraytracesaw the jbrlcad commit.  Way cool someone's working with it.
22:09.59brlcada bit of a flurry regarding it over the past couple weeks
22:11.33obfuciusno geometry display window is appearing in mged, but I think I might have to just compile with glx support because I'm running with an nvidia glx driver under linux
22:12.25brlcadobfucius: does the command window show up?
22:15.07obfuciuswell I'll run mged from the command line like %mged -n project.g and it asks wether I want to use nu, X, or ogl. I've tried both ogl and X but nothing happens.
22:58.56yukonbobobfucius: what's your platform?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080202

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080202

00:44.29obfuciusoh, I'm running on a x86_64 notebook with opensuse 10.3
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05:47.00``Erikaa /blah
06:57.04CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30187 10/brlcad/trunk/include/config_win.h: cleanup and reorganize. organize/group together and annotate the various sections and the make note of the bogus defines that are really bad/counterproductive hacks. add fcntl.h too since it needed with io.h
06:58.13CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30188 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (bu.h config_win.h): check for _MAX_PATH in bu.h
06:59.00brlcadGruni: problems?
07:44.52CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30189 10/brlcad/trunk/include/machine.h: meh
07:46.01CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30190 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (42 files in 14 dirs): header cleanup, remove fcntl.h inclusions that don't seem to be needed
08:16.38CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30191 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac src/nirt/nirt.c src/remrt/rtsrv.c): remove check for fcntl.h
08:51.09CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30192 10/brlcad/trunk/ (63 files in 19 dirs): protect all of the unistd.h inclusions for portability
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19:01.19yukonbobhello, cadheads
19:42.31brlcadhowdy
19:43.27yukonbobhow's your day today?
19:44.43brlcadnot half bad
19:45.19brlcaddragging a bit, but about to hit the gym hopefully to get some energy up
19:50.50yukonboba business dude?
19:51.34brlcadsounds about as exciting as meeting an accountant
19:53.48poolioMacbook Air :)
20:11.10brlcadahh
20:11.12brlcadheh
20:20.46poolioPoor guy.
20:40.20brlcadpoolio: http://my.brlcad.org/Beset_Overview.pdf
20:41.16brlcadthat was part of a bigger presentation given last week based on the work and your final report
20:49.28poolioAhhh. My / is full and it won't download :o
20:51.43yukonbobpoolio: rm -fr /
20:52.04yukonbob(please don't, if you don't get the joke ;)
20:52.11yukonbob^--- pedantic, but...
20:52.35poolioyukonbob: heh, it worked, thanks!
20:52.43yukonbobnp :)
20:53.14yukonbobpoolio: are you a *nix weeny like the rest of us?
20:54.59yukonbobbrlcad: good looking presentation :)
20:59.39yukonbobkewl
21:01.02poolioyukonbob: aye. although I almost converted to OS X :) still kind of a *nix?
21:03.02pooliobrlcad: That is friggin awesome.
21:03.09yukonbobwell -- considering Apple ponied-up and spent the $$ for testing (and passed) it's arguably more Unix than Linux or the *BSDs... I'm still a *BSD fan, though -- and I _like_ X
21:04.55pooliobrlcad: I'm really really impressed. I'm sorry I didn't get to do it, but I doubt I could put together as nice a presentation :)
21:06.07poolioyukonbob: Yeah I have some friends who went from Linux -> Os X and really like it. I was considering etting a Macbook Air but I'm not so sure about that anymore... I've mainly just gotten sick of Linux/BSD/etc... because of all the extra work it takes to get thinks working that should just work in thef irst place. And now I no longer have massive amounts of time to tinker, and I just need things to work ...
21:06.50yukonbob"things to work" -- such as?
21:07.49poolioVideo cards, peripherals, wireless drivers, etc..
21:08.19poolioAnd sure, with time and effort you can get most things you want done, but it is much more difficult
21:08.23poolio(or atleast time consuming)
21:09.18poolioTake for example getting an ipod working or getting ATI cards working, yes there is software out there for the ipod, and you can get the ATI card working, but ... effort :P
21:09.52poolioAnd when I'm trying to get software running so I can finish a certain assignment on time... it may be those few minutes, hours, etc ... make a difference (that's a pretty far-fetched scenario but it happened to me last week)
21:11.25yukonbobwell -- it's ea. person's experience that counts -- but I'm sticking w/ NetBSD :)
21:15.12poolioHeh, it's been ages since I've used NetBSD.
21:21.41yukonbobpoolio: your 'beset' reminds me of http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20010421/bob18.asp -- are there any similarities?
21:22.57poolioJust skimming it, it looks somewhat similar in the sense of packing shapes, but that's not exactly what beset is supposed to do (although that's one of the few things it can do right now)
21:24.00poolioIt also seems to approach it with mroe standard algorithms, less crazy evolutionary mumbo jumbo
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22:45.51toxygenbrlcad: hello
22:45.53toxygenalive?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080203

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080203

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00:22.21IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/workmode.png   :)
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02:03.14IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/rt.zip    <---- whats this?
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02:07.33IriX64:)
03:07.03brlcadtoxygen: yes, hello
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03:50.02Axman6...
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03:50.09Axman6Gruni: quit it!
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03:51.36Winny...heh
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03:54.13Axman6Gruni: wtf!
03:54.25Axman6rawr
03:54.37WinnyI agree
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03:58.24Axman6Gruni!
03:58.32Axman6fix your client@
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03:59.36Winnymy lord
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04:00.28Axman6brlcad: can you do something about this? :(
04:00.44Axman6like yell very loudly
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04:07.18Axman6URGGGGGGGHH
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04:19.15Winny...
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04:22.44Axman6brlcad: yt?
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05:36.00brlcadbleh
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05:36.19brlcadAxman6: yeah, srry
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05:37.35Winny\o/
06:05.32Axman6phn#@pm? k?
06:05.35Axman6>_>
06:05.46Axman6wow, even i can't read that
06:09.40CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30193 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
06:09.42CIA-31BRL-CAD: Bob added the rest of BRL-CAD's geometry converters for the Windows port. looks
06:09.44CIA-31BRL-CAD: like it's all of them, or pretty close. he added asc2pix asc2nmg bot2bldxf
06:09.46CIA-31BRL-CAD: bot2raw bot_shell2vtk cy2g dxf2g enf2g euclid_format euclid_unformat euclid2g
06:09.48CIA-31BRL-CAD: g2acad g2adrt g2dxf g2euclid1 g2euclid g2nff g2nmg g2obj g2shellrect g2tankill
06:09.52CIA-31BRL-CAD: g2var g2vrml g2x3d g42g5 g52g4 nastran2g nmg2bot nmg2rib nmg2sgp pix2asc ply2g
06:09.54CIA-31BRL-CAD: poly2bot tankill-g viewpoint2g
06:10.17Axman6nice
06:12.26brlcadthey're asking that you give your phone number in a PM, k? :)
06:12.34Axman6well done
06:12.45Axman6though i'm not sure you should be proud of that
06:12.51brlcadheh
06:13.11brlcadsee a *LOT* of that from the bzflag kiddies
06:13.21Axman6haha, yeah i'd bet
06:14.09Axman6t was a very odd day when i decided i wanted to build both brl-cad and bzflag on the same day, then came in here and found you
06:14.32brlcadsum a dem dont no how 2 tlk wif out da srtcuts
06:14.58Winnyausom sight on a scms
06:15.41Axman6i swear, if apple don't make mds less crap, i'm gonna stab them
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09:26.21toxygenbrlcad: hello. i just wanted to ask whether you was lucky with converting that 3d cyberware scan to any format...
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13:03.58brlcadtoxygen: I'm actually still working on it
13:04.34brlcadI pretty much have a grasp of the problem, just writing and testing new code
13:05.00brlcadthere are scan settings in that cy data file that we'd never encountered, so it's not accounting for it correctly
13:38.22CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30194 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: quell warning about free shadowing free()
13:50.07toxygenbrlcad: aha
13:50.09toxygeni see
13:50.17toxygenok, good luck with it :)
13:50.34toxygenin case you suceed, could you please mail me to toxygen1@gmail.com?
13:53.36CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30195 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/cy-g.c:
13:53.36CIA-31BRL-CAD: considerably revamp how the header is processed. make NAME be the name of the
13:53.36CIA-31BRL-CAD: db object created. stash header lines as _GLOBAL attributes (probably belong on
13:53.36CIA-31BRL-CAD: object, but close enough). improve error handling and supported header element
13:53.37CIA-31BRL-CAD: processing. clean up the style and ws while we're at it.
15:36.23``Erika /det
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17:06.17*** join/#brlcad EdSchouten (i=ed@palm.hoeg.nl)
17:06.18EdSchoutenhello
17:06.40EdSchouteni don't use BRL-CAD, so if i sound like an idiot, excuse me :P
17:07.24EdSchoutenanyway: as you might know, there is a FreeBSD Port for brlcad, which means folks can easily install brlcad from the package manager
17:07.38EdSchouteni'm currently trying to convert as much applications as possible from the sgtty terminal interface to termios
17:07.54brlcadyou're the guy that made that first patch?
17:07.57EdSchoutenbrlcad uses sgtty by default on freebsd. that's not the problem, because -DHAVE_XOPEN fixes this :)
17:08.12EdSchoutenyep, but it only seemed to work on my testing machine, where there is no sgtty.h
17:08.37EdSchoutenit turns out the #ifdef's in vas_io.c in the bottom are the opposite of the ones at the top, where we do the #include's
17:09.18brlcadiirc, this is all in jove, no?
17:09.47EdSchoutenjove?
17:10.09brlcadah, never mind
17:10.19brlcadthat's in the vas4 ikonas driver interface
17:10.33EdSchoutenwell, the file is called vas_io.c
17:10.47brlcader, lyon lamb vas4 animation controller
17:11.03brlcadyeah, sorry just getting patches confused
17:11.08EdSchoutennp :)
17:11.15brlcadjove does some termios
17:11.27EdSchoutenanyway: i've got a sort of hackish patch for FreeBSD, but i'll write something more generic for you folks
17:11.36brlcadokay, great
17:12.13brlcadneed anything from our end?
17:12.21EdSchoutennot really. :)
17:12.31brlcadthe best kind of fixes :)
17:17.55EdSchoutenhttp://junk.g-rave.nl/vas_io.c.diff <- still have to compile-test this
17:18.06EdSchoutenbrb -> food :)
17:18.11CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30196 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/generic/tcl.h: quell compilation shadow warnings
17:30.12CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30197 10/brlcad/trunk/ (AUTHORS src/vas4/vas_io.c): apply a patch to vas4 from Ed Schouten (provided over IRC) that fixes an sgtty vs termios mixup in the # inclusion/define foo.
17:31.21CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30198 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/cy-g.c: quell float comparison and alloc type warnings, print the header line
17:40.36EdSchoutenit worked? :P
17:41.08brlcad:)
17:41.35brlcadI don't have a vas4 device on hand any more to test it
17:41.53brlcadvas4 is actually a borderline dead chunk of code
17:42.04brlcadi was just now officially marking it as deprecated
17:42.29brlcadif someone is actually using it, they'll let us know and we'll hear if it's working :)
17:42.38EdSchouten:D
17:42.44brlcadotherwise it does compile without a hitch on a couple plats
17:43.03EdSchoutenwell, i would suspect you could already ditch the sgtty and termio code
17:43.14EdSchoutenalmost any UNIX-like system that was released after 1995 supports termios
17:47.47brlcadyeah, that tool was developed in the late 80's -- the arcane code is merely portability to ancient systems
17:48.01EdSchoutenbrlcad: woops - it seems i left some code in that patch that shouldn't have made it in
17:48.04brlcadmost of brl-cad still compiles and runs on original 4.2 bsd, for example
17:48.05EdSchouten-vtty.c_oflag |= TAB3;/* output tab expansion ON */
17:48.06EdSchouten+vtty.c_oflag |= OXTABS;/* output tab expansion ON */
17:48.24brlcadwhat line?
17:48.30EdSchoutenaround 100
17:49.03CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30199 10/brlcad/trunk/ (doc/deprecation.txt src/vas4/vas4.1 src/vas4/vas4.c): officially mark vas4 for removal, deprecated as of the 7.12 release. if nobody complains or has a good reason for keeping it, the tool can be removed after a few minor releases.
17:49.17EdSchouten:D
17:51.56CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30200 10/brlcad/trunk/src/vas4/vas_io.c: s/OXTABS/TAB3/ in the HAVE_TERMIOS_H section where tab expansion is turned on
17:52.01brlcaddone
17:52.28EdSchoutenthanks :)
17:52.35brlcadthank you
17:52.56EdSchoutenthis is one of the few applications where i managed to get my work committed
17:53.12EdSchoutena lot of applications which i ported to termios already seemed to be a little dead... :(
17:53.37EdSchoutenanyway, have a fine day (or night)
17:53.41EdSchoutenbye :-)
17:53.45*** part/#brlcad EdSchouten (i=ed@palm.hoeg.nl)
18:14.17CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30201 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/cy-g.c:
18:14.19CIA-31BRL-CAD: add support for the rest of the cy header entities seen on a sample scan
18:14.21CIA-31BRL-CAD: provided by toxygen (via irc). this includes detecting DATE, NAME, LGMIN,
18:14.23CIA-31BRL-CAD: LGMAX, LGINCR, LTMIN, LTMAX, RMIN, RMAX, LGSHIFT, SCALE, and RPROP. (in addition
18:14.25CIA-31BRL-CAD: to the others that were originally supported: NLT, LTINCR, RSHIFT, SPACE, NLG,
18:14.27CIA-31BRL-CAD: and DATA)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080204

00:11.43CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30202 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/cy-g.c: stash everything into a var for now just in case we do try to use it, presume rprop is a radius scale factor and use 'scale' for the delta_z scale factor
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01:02.48CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30203 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/openw.tcl:
01:02.48CIA-31BRL-CAD: since the directory is being pulled dynamic from bu_brlcad_data, don't pay any
01:02.48CIA-31BRL-CAD: attention to what is in the .mgedrc (probably shouldn't write it out). more
01:02.48CIA-31BRL-CAD: importantly, don't use the -display option with the $mged_browser so that it'll
01:02.48CIA-31BRL-CAD: actually work. need some better way than calling up tcl_platform(os)...freakin
01:02.51CIA-31BRL-CAD: fugly. this does, however, make help finally work on mac os x.
01:06.35CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30204 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
01:06.36CIA-31BRL-CAD: fixed mged's browser-based help on Mac OS X. multiple problems causing help to
01:06.36CIA-31BRL-CAD: not work including users' .mgedrc pointing to a non-existent previous install as
01:06.36CIA-31BRL-CAD: well as trying to invoke with the open command while still using the
01:06.36CIA-31BRL-CAD: X11-specific -display options that mozilla obeys.
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03:12.50dm132Hello
03:14.52dm132I'm new to both IRC and BRL-CAD
03:17.06dm132Does anybody use this channel?
03:17.14dm132I'm not looking for help now, but might be later on.
03:18.55louipcyep
03:19.13louipcthis is a pretty active channel
03:19.18dm132Nice to hear.
03:26.01Axman6louipc: what've you been smoking. active?
03:26.16dm132So it's not active?
03:26.23louipcAxman6: sure it is
03:26.28Axman6dm132: brlcad is one of the main devs though, so it's a good place to get help if you're patient
03:26.50louipcbrlcad is THE main dev
03:27.09Axman6ok then, THE man
03:27.13louipcjust watch the commits
03:27.20Axman6yeah i know
03:27.56dm132Is there a users channel?
03:28.04Axman6yep
03:28.06Axman6you're in it
03:28.08louipcthis is it pretty much
03:28.13dm132I'm not really a developer; I know some C++, etc...
03:29.14louipcme neither
03:29.18dm132Ok, I've got a question now... I understand BRL is a lot of different tools put together...
03:29.26louipcI would like to start though
03:29.34dm132but which is the main one?
03:29.44louipcmged is probably what you want
03:29.56Axman6i'm going to uni in like two weeks, i'll be learning some programming
03:30.01Axman6probably java though -_-
03:30.11louipcfail!
03:30.26Axman6very much so
03:30.26louipclearn C instead
03:30.33louipcyeah I learned java too
03:30.34Axman6i'd really like to learn Objective-C
03:31.08louipcI can't believe they still teach java
03:31.20Axman6it's still big in some places
03:35.33Axman6well that shut you up
03:36.06louipcnot
03:37.42Axman6anyway, looking forward to doing Engineering/IT
03:39.28louipccool
03:39.51louipcmechanical engineering?
03:39.58Axman6dunno yet
03:40.16Axman6i'm glad i get to do some more physics though
03:40.24louipcah
03:40.47Axman6think i start to specialise after the first year or two
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03:45.53dm132Apparently one of the top-rh keys (UIOP) is the shortcut for "make my screen blink then shut down my computer"
03:47.15Axman6excellent
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04:16.50louipcoh yeah
04:29.52yukonbobwe may never know
04:30.05Axman6one of life's great mysteries
04:30.18yukonbobfor some definition of "great" sure ;)
04:30.45brlcadif someone is wanting to get into programming, they really should learn several languages (in depth)
04:31.03yukonbobspeaking of great -- what's the sched for the next release?
04:31.13brlcadlearning any single language is just a recipe for hammer-nail problem solving
04:31.40Axman6brlcad: any you suggest?
04:32.42Axman6i learnt a bit of ruby, Objective-C, C++
04:32.43brlcaddepends what you want to do, but I'd suggest learning one in each of the major types being more important than any particular language in that type
04:32.47Axman6nothing in depth though
04:33.31Axman6i always reach a point where i go "wtf? did you just skip a year's work?" and can't get passed it
04:33.39Axman6Objective-C was the worst
04:33.54yukonbobdoes apple still use obj-c?
04:34.07Axman6of course
04:34.22Axman6they introduces Objective-C 2.0 with leopard
04:34.49Axman6with 'fast enumeration' and some other crap
04:34.54Axman6oh, garbage collection
04:34.57brlcade.g. C/Tcl/Perl/VB for procedural, Smalltalk for pure OO, C++/Java/Python/Ruby for a OO/procedural hybrid, Lisp/Scheme/ML for functional, etc
04:36.46brlcadI'd recommend learning them in that order too, but that's just personal bias
04:37.48Axman6i did VB at school, and hated it. a lot.
04:38.12Axman6nothing frustrated me more than using "VBcolor.Black"
04:38.13brlcadand sry, ruby falls under pure OO too iirc, along with a handful of others
04:38.27brlcadVB is "special"
04:38.32Axman6very
04:38.52Axman6it was ok with VB six, kinda fun. but VB.net is retarded
04:39.45brlcadthat starts involving toolkits and standard APIs .. the language itself is what I was referring to, just the features of the language
04:39.48Axman6could also have been the copy and paste nature of the book we were using too
04:39.51brlcad(.net that is)
04:40.11Axman6they've tried to go OO, and failed pretty hard imo
04:40.15brlcadeven v6 and earlier - if you want to get at the core, run the old quickbasic or something
04:40.54Axman6quickbasic = Qbasic?
04:41.05Axman6i never did that, but friends in high school did
04:41.15Axman6i did learn some forth though
04:41.50Axman6and pascal
04:41.58Axman6robotics was awesome
04:42.00brlcadstill, VB/Basic is a language with some pretty 'interesting' features worth recognizing as one learns the landscape and reasons for one vs another
04:42.08brlcadquickbasic is not qbasic
04:42.16brlcadqbasic was an ide iirc
04:42.31Axman6fair enough
04:42.36Axman6like i said, i never used it
04:43.02brlcadstill, close enough
04:43.10brlcadyou basically learn BASIC with it
04:43.41Axman6was it basic they used on things like the apple II?
04:43.43brlcadin the procedural batch, though, there's a lot more value for learning C imho
04:43.52brlcadat least learning it first or early
04:44.32brlcadyou learn how a language relates to the actual hardware much better than just about every other language (other than assembly of course)
04:44.44Axman6yeah
04:44.47yukonbobBASIC, then C -- learn loops and decision-making, then bend your mind with pointers and references...  :)
04:44.55Axman6hmm.
04:45.06Axman6yeah pointers and stuff messed with my head when i tried C++
04:45.16Axman6i think i'll be doing Java next year :(
04:48.59brlcadlearning C, Smalltalk, Lisp, C++, Perl, Python, and Java in that order would probably give a pretty solid practical programming foundation
04:49.45pooliobrlcad: It's pretty much taught in reverse at most universities
04:50.05Axman6yukonbob: it's pretty cool from what i know of it. it's Apple's frameworks that makes it awesome though
04:50.09poolioAnd would you choose Lisp over Scheme?
04:50.33brlcadAxman6: yeah, if you had problems with pointers, then I'd say you basically didn't finish .. should continue with C till it does all make sense
04:50.42brlcadpoolio: meh, same difference
04:50.51brlcadfor someone learning languages, the differences are petty
04:51.01Axman6never did straight C, tried C++. i should try C
04:51.12brlcadthere is no try!
04:51.16brlcadthere is do, and do not!
04:51.26Axman6if only i'd decided this three months ago when i didn't have a week before going to uni -_-
04:51.29Axman6yes master
04:51.35yukonbobtrouble (for me) with Lisp/Scheme is that there are _so_ many implementations -- and now esp. w/ the r6rs being so divisive, scheme's an even tougher landscape...
04:53.05brlcadso many implementations because not even the lispers and schemers can agree on what they want the language to be, everyone has their own little pet peeves over nonsensical languages features
04:55.08Axman6ruby is quite nice.
04:55.16Axman6reads how it works when written well
04:55.23yukonbob...and apparently relatively easy to build one's own implementation -- ``Erik was saying to me "what's the difference between the Scheme's and the diff't C compilers?", but I don't get the same "vibe" ...
04:55.31Axman6and if you know what you're doing, can be concise
04:55.59brlcadif you know what you're doing, the language doesn't matter much
04:56.17brlcadthat's the point of learning multiple languages
04:56.52brlcadall the bickering and debates of language A over B over C is really lame, they all have their purposes and can all be put to pretty good use by good programmers
04:58.07yukonbobwell -- except wrt scheme, things seem to get so weird, you're really programming in $Implementation of a lisp-like language -- but true, re: language debates -- no need to use the language as a crutch...
04:59.18yukonbobon to brlcad-ness: http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/newhub.png and http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/edgehub3.png are from the same model -- but notice the ring in the edge model -- Comments, brlcad?
04:59.45yukonbobs/edge model/edge rendering/
05:02.23brlcadyukonbob: yeah...
05:03.16brlcadthat's interesting.. should only drawing an edge if those two are different regions
05:04.06brlcadcould be the same bug that's causing the specs
05:04.24brlcadif it is, you could probably finagle a workaround
05:05.06yukonbobre: work-around -- that's fine -- but just an interesting aspect from this model -- getting good mileage out of it for potential bug-tickling :)
05:05.09brlcade.g. adding another subtraction object on the inner hub that subtracts from the negative primitive that ends there
05:05.44brlcadi think it's the same bug .. just being exposed in a completely different (more obvious) way by the edge raytracer
05:06.16brlcadthat whole hub "should" be just one solid region
05:06.27brlcadit's one chunk of contiguous metal
05:06.33yukonbobcorrect.
05:06.35brlcador whatever material
05:06.46yukonbobunobtanium
05:06.53brlcad:)
05:07.29yukonbobanyway, we went through the "specks" bug some time ago, but if this helps w/ the bug tracking/fixing, you're welcome to that img as a reference too...
05:07.40brlcadif I recall correclty, you have some really interesting torus and cylinders being used to make that outer blend
05:08.01yukonbobya -- you commented on it before...
05:08.09brlcadwhere their surface edge intersects is where that edge and the specles are occurring iirc
05:08.23brlcadyeah, thanks for the image
05:08.47yukonbobis there an ETA on 7.12?
05:09.52brlcadas soon as the items in TODO are done
05:09.55brlcadhttp://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/TODO
05:10.02brlcadif they're slow to fix, slow to release
05:10.14yukonbobah -- I asked that before and you replied the same way... sorry :)
05:10.16brlcadotherwise, hopefully .. the plan is .. this month
05:10.58brlcadyeah, that's always the release plan .. something might get pushed back to the next release, but most of those items are pretty important
05:12.54yukonbob?what's the [incr tcl] pathing issue, and the puts/gets stdout/stdin mged i/o?
05:16.09Axman6brlcad: seen http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikibooks/en/f/f8/C_programming.pdf before? ok place to start with C?
05:16.55yukonbobAxman6: get kernighan/ritchey "The C Programming Language" for ANSI C.
05:17.07Axman6$?
05:17.16poolioyes. worth every penny.
05:17.17brlcadyeah, the original is still pretty great
05:17.36poolioEven after you've read it, it's good as a reference.
05:18.01brlcadthat writeup doesn't seem too bad at a glance, but no I've not seen that pdf before
05:19.01brlcadyukonbob: if you compile using system incrtcl, but compiling tcl/tk, it doesn't end up performing the right itcl/itk init it needs at run-time
05:19.37brlcadjust a build settings issue for the most part, but it needs to be fixed
05:20.55yukonbobtrue -- kind of an odd situation though, where one would use a local implementation of a Tcl extension but choose to rebuild Tcl... still a bug, if it doesn't work...
05:21.39brlcadthe mged i/o problem is a bigger issue -- the output handlers aren't working right, related to the background/foreground options and what file descriptors are left open/closed, tcl's output channel setup, and our logging hook
05:22.27brlcadI don't recall if it has anything to do with compiling tcl, the problem might just be using a system incr
05:23.45yukonbobok -- well, I use system _everything_ related to Tcl and as much as possible -- I'll see if I can find time to clone my env. and build in a chroot, teasing-out details...
05:23.47brlcadeither way, it's a default compilation problem and getting those resolved is always important or they just fester into other problems and can cascade other problems down the road
05:24.23yukonbobs/and as much as possible/and every other lib as much as possible/
05:25.38brlcadthree configs I always try to make sure work, everything on, everything off, and default auto-detect on standard configs (e.g. mac os x or solaris out of the box)
05:26.54yukonbobmake sense
05:26.57yukonbob*makes
05:52.20Axman6hmm, this wikibook is terribly inconsistant
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16:48.46CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30205 10/brlcad/trunk/include/config_win.h: Mods to get things compiling again.
16:51.11brlcadhuh, that's odd
18:39.46CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30206 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/nirt.c: Added b to the flag parameter of fopen().
18:52.00CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30207 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/parse_fmt.c: ValTab[] should not be const. Also added b to the flag parameter of fopen().
19:11.37CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30208 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/tkstub/tkstub.vcproj: tkStubImg.c no longer needed.
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21:29.12New2BRLCADHello All
21:39.28yukonbobhello, New2BRLCAD :)
21:41.59New2BRLCADI have a wicked n00b q
21:42.06New2BRLCADfeel like a t00l asking it
21:42.17yukonboboh ya?
21:43.06New2BRLCADI'm looking around for an auto-cad like open source software for a little home project ( map out floor plans of my house and diagram electrical and plumbing)
21:43.21New2BRLCADI used an auto-cad like software in high school but its been awhile
21:43.39New2BRLCADwould brlcad be something I could use to accomplish that?
21:43.43New2BRLCADor is this too indepth
21:44.05New2BRLCADI checked out the website, sourceforge. wikki
21:44.35New2BRLCADlooks like I'd be trying to kill a ant with a bazooka but just wanted to make sure before I made that assumption
21:44.50yukonbobwell -- BRL-CAD uses Constructive Solid Geometry to do it's job -- I'm not an autocad expert at all, but it's typically a 2d line-drawing oriented tool, no?
21:45.19New2BRLCADright .. most of the drawings were 2d but I was thinking about doing it 3d
21:45.21yukonbobPeople _do_ use BRL-CAD in construction, but it doesn't have tools for annotated line-drawings
21:45.24New2BRLCADfor funzies
21:45.38yukonbobfor fun, sure, why not use BRL-CAD? :)
21:46.12New2BRLCADthe program I used most of the construction items , such as windows doors etc.. were all in the app
21:46.34New2BRLCADI'm assuming I would have to start making those things first before stepping into the floor designs
21:47.14New2BRLCADwhat I'd like to do is eventually be able to design out an addition to scale
21:47.34New2BRLCADthen provide that to a contractor to say build me one of these
21:47.47New2BRLCADok thats kewl
21:48.25New2BRLCADI just wanted to get a feel for brlcad
21:48.31New2BRLCADso is creating a library involved?
21:49.07yukonbobre: contractor -- like I said, you won't end up with a blueprint -- there are many ways to render, and lots of things you can test w/ BRL-CAD, but you may need to print-out your renderings in 'edge' format and then annotate yourself to give to a contractor...
21:51.03yukonbobeg: see http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/newhub.png and  http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/edgehub3.png for two diff't renders of the same object
21:53.00yukonbobre: library -- I don't think there's any special format involved -- you'll create your objects using CSG methods and can then swap them back/forth to whatever projects you want...
21:53.20yukonbobNew2BRLCAD: what platform are you running?
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21:54.59New2BRLCADUbuntu
21:55.04New2BRLCADon my PS3
21:55.05New2BRLCAD=)
21:55.32New2BRLCADand then I have a macbook pro or a work issued IBM thinkpad that I could move it too
21:55.57New2BRLCADif the PS3 starts to cry
21:56.15yukonbobZ80-Boy: runs on a 4 cores? ;)
21:56.50yukonbobNew2BRLCAD: so -- are you hoping to run BRL-CAD on the PS3, or MBP, or ?
21:56.59Z80-Boyruns on 4 urethane wheels
21:57.18Z80-Boyor 2 metal edges
21:57.20New2BRLCADprob the PS3
21:57.29Z80-Boyor, like most of contemporary IT technology, on water.
21:57.33New2BRLCADmy IBM is pretty loaded
21:57.48yukonbobis the PS3 using a Cell processor?
21:58.50New2BRLCADyep
22:00.59New2BRLCAD256M of main XDR mem and 256M GDDR3 for the NVIDIA RSX
22:02.13``ErikI think BRL-CAD tops out at around 512 processors, then funky locking issues start showing up and slowing things down
22:02.21Z80-Boyyukonbob: BRL-CAD is here for 30 years
22:02.33``ErikI use it with 8 core machines all the time :)
22:02.49Z80-Boyim buying now a core 2 duo machine
22:02.52Z80-BoyJust because of BRL-CAD
22:02.52yukonbobI'm not talking about #cores, but the CELL architecture...
22:02.58Z80-BoyBecause I know the renders will be hell slow
22:03.13Z80-BoyHey, you should finally fix the 218x slowdown with the half-cut bolts
22:03.39Z80-Boybrlcad said he'll definitely need to look into that, that it's suspicious. That it shouldn't create a slowdown orders of magnitude
22:05.18Z80-BoyBRL-CAD, the ultimate 21st century oldschool!
22:06.53Z80-BoyHey, can I get a BRL-CAD sticker for my snowboard?
22:16.29``Erikthe csg tree must be extremely poorly arranged for that kinda slowdown, with a horrible space partition happening
22:18.11Z80-Boyyeah I suspect some worst case to hit or something like that
22:18.17Z80-Boyis the csg somehow balanced?
22:18.49Z80-BoyI mean is the csg tree balanced?
22:19.01``Erikwell, if you blast something like a half through a complex geometry, the space partition tree will balloon like mad
22:19.07Z80-Boyor is it left unbalanced and hoped for a statistical spread?
22:19.18``Erikthe csg tree itself is built how you define it
22:19.20Z80-BoyI blasted a rpp ;-)
22:19.50Z80-Boywell every single cylinder of the thread gets cut in half
22:19.55Z80-Boybut it shouldn't slow down 218x
22:19.58Z80-BoyIt should slow down 2x
22:20.17Z80-BoyI guess the bounding boxes are maybe deoptimized?
22:20.47``Erikare you using the half operator?
22:21.15``Erikmight be better to use an arb8 (or several arb8's)
22:21.16Z80-BoyI don't know what a half operator is
22:21.25Z80-BoyI use a rpp to do the cutaway view
22:21.40Z80-Boyif you mean a halfplane, I never used a halfplane
22:21.44``Erikhrm, odd
22:21.52Z80-Boyyou can try it the .g is online
22:22.04Z80-BoyAnd in the bug database
22:22.20Z80-Boyhttp://ronja.twibright.com/3d/headcut.g
22:22.26Z80-Boydo
22:22.27Z80-Boy"B headcut" and rt
22:22.30Z80-Boyit will become hell slow
22:23.25Z80-Boygoing sleeping good night
22:31.05louipcAxman6: I'm using C Primer Plus right now
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23:16.26Axman6louipc: yeah when i tried C++, i used C++ Primer Plus (terrible name). it was really really well written
23:18.55IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/work.png
23:19.05louipcwoohoo integer overflow
23:19.21IriX64use float :)
23:19.24louipclooks like you have to be very dilligent with C to make sure things are going right
23:19.30louipcdiligent
23:25.40``Erik"unit testing for xml" *boggle*
23:26.48IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/play.png    <grin>
23:28.55louipcI use dosbox to play old games
23:29.08``ErikI've done that, too
23:33.06IriX64how many dos's come in that box ;)
23:59.39``Eriksid meiers pirates!... the original one, not gold
23:59.49louipcIriX64: enough of them to run games?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080205

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080205

00:00.09Axman6``Erik: i hope that's not related to the movie pirates
00:00.27Axman6…not that i'd know what that is…
00:02.21louipcdoes anyone know how to discover vhosts on a domain?
00:03.29louipcaha I think I found something
00:03.29``Erikum, it came out in '87, axman...
00:03.37louipcAxman6: haaaah
00:04.11Axman6heh
00:11.33IriX64vmware is good....sound fx and music work
00:12.32Axman6yeah VMware fusion is really nice
00:12.51IriX64using workstation
00:12.54IriX646
00:13.43Axman6big improvment on using Qemu on a PPC i can tell you :P
00:14.43IriX64gotta buy this thing, they'll get sick of giving me eval licences eventually :)
00:20.53``Erikheh
00:21.01``Erikqemu x86 on an x86 is pretty decent
00:22.57Axman6``Erik: it almost perfectly emulated my 133MHz pentium 1 router thing. speed and ahrdware. i was pretty surprised
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00:30.20CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30209 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libtienet/tienet_master.c: use bu_fgets for win32 portability
00:37.51starseekerHmm - did the changes made in incrTcl to support Tcl 8.5 in the tree render it unusable with 8.4?
00:53.06starseekershaders.rt.pix 0 off by many - anyone else seeing this fail in the regression test?
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01:20.32``Erikyes
01:20.42``Erikthe internals changed between 8.4 and 8.5
01:20.49``Erikand incr pokes at internals
01:55.49starseekerOK, configure needs to select internal now if it detects 8.4 - it barfed on my machine
02:03.30``Erikif the system has the correct incrtcl installed, it can use 8.4...
02:03.45``Erikthe issue is between incrtcl and tcl, not anyhting of ours
02:09.29starseekerHmm.  OK, BRL-CAD on my system has never liked the system incrtcl
02:14.56starseekerIt's trying to use the BRL-CAD version, and configure is checking the system version of tcl/tk and saying "oh, OK, 8.4 is fine."  Then it doesn't like my system incrtcl and Bad Things happen...
02:26.27starseekerCool - the simple brep example is fun to play with
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03:14.27brlcadstarseeker: 0 off by many isn't a failure
03:15.05brlcadand .. which simple brep example? :)  there are three of them
03:15.27brlcadneed to get rid of one of them as soon as some more testing gets done
03:26.59starseekerbrep_simple
03:27.14starseekerbrep_cube is crashing for me atm
03:27.27brlcadreally?  that's odd
03:27.33brlcadsame file, just different values
03:27.38starseekerERROR: NULL struct db_i pointer, file db_lookup.c, line 237
03:27.48brlcadooh
03:27.57brlcadit's expecting an argument
03:28.03brlcadi forgot about that
03:28.07brlcadi fixed it in simple
03:28.19brlcadjust not yet in cube
03:28.26starseekerheh - brep_cube --help works :-)
03:28.38brlcadcube is the one that should go away
03:29.14brlcadbreplicator is the third -- it basically performs the same steps as brep_simple but in a linear fashion so you can see more explicitly what's going on
03:29.53starseekerI can't rotate the brep_simple in mged, but subtracting "normal" primitives works :-)
03:30.26starseekerGenerates a nifty screenshot, but I can see raytracing these suckers is going to be resource intensive
03:31.02brlcadthat's very much experimental, what's currently being worked on
03:31.10starseeker:-)
03:31.15brlcadnot been optimized at all, still working on implementation
03:32.32brlcadray-tracing breps is probably about 90% done
03:34.14starseekerNifty!
03:47.13starseekerMeh - archer doesn't like Linux atm - Error in startup script: invalid command name "bu_brlcad_root"
03:50.07louipcstarseeker: did you ever get it to run in linux?
03:50.37starseekernot so far
03:50.39starseekerbbl
03:50.47louipcyeah me neither
03:51.17brlcadrun bwish, does bu_brlcad_root work there?
03:53.03brlcadotherwise, you're either not running archer through bwish or Bu_Init isn't getting called
03:53.48louipcbu_brlcad_root to specify what? Usage: bu_brlcad_root subdir
03:54.10brlcadusage is what it should say
03:54.18brlcadit's a function that returns the location of the root
03:54.20louipcyep ^
03:54.24brlcador an item in the root
03:54.31brlcadbu_brlcad_root .   for example
03:54.41louipcok
03:54.43brlcadbu_brlcad_data db/moss.g
03:54.55louipcit gave the usage message with a blank argument anyways
03:55.36brlcadwhich is why invalid command name should only happen if it's not bwish/btclsh
03:55.46louipcthere's some problem with tkimg.so and pnglib in archer. I was actually tinkering with it before to try and figure out what was going on
03:56.34louipc... well for me anyways
03:57.20louipcError in startup script: couldn't load file "/opt/brlcad/lib/tkimg.so
03:57.35brlcadis it there?
03:57.46louipcyep
03:58.12louipcI think I got it to load before but I was still having png_read_destroy error
03:58.20brlcadrun bwish and type "load /opt/brlcad/lib/tkimg.so"
03:58.24brlcadwhat's it say?
03:58.54louipcundefined symbol: png_read_destroy
03:59.03louipccouldn't load file "/opt/brlcad/lib/tkimg.so
03:59.30brlcadthat'd be why
04:00.11brlcadit's got an unresolved symbol to that png function, and the libpng that it's finding probably isn't exporting it
04:00.44louipcoh so I'd have to rebuild my libpng or something
04:01.16brlcadthat's my guess
04:01.30brlcadcould also be something in tkimg, if that's not a libpng function
04:02.11louipccould be deprecated *shrug*
04:02.42brlcadyeah, looks like it might have been removed from libpng
04:02.49brlcadhttp://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-commits/2007-October/msg07881.html ..
04:03.26brlcadthat removes it
04:03.26brlcad(from tkimg)
04:05.49brlcadhave to look into it more later, but you can probably work around the problem with --enable-libpng
04:06.01brlcadsince our libpng is explicitly set to export it iirc
04:06.21louipcI think I'll try to make an archlinux package for tkimg
04:06.29louipcI didn't even notice it was there
04:06.48brlcadit's a small/simple little extension
04:19.21louipcah OK I remember what happened
04:20.00louipcLoadArcherLibs.tcl line 65 I put the path of my libpng.so which got rid of that error
04:20.14louipcbut there was a new error Error in startup script: couldn't find procedure Png_Init
04:29.45starseekerAh - it looks like archer is trying to use my system tcl/tk despite BRL-CAD having built its own copy
04:30.02starseekermutter mutter...
04:30.18louipcstarseeker: do you know anything about Png_Init?
04:30.35starseekerziltch, I'm sorry to say
04:30.40louipcshucks
04:31.15louipcI just grepped the libpng source tarball and it comes out null
04:31.31starseekerIt's probably a TCL/TK routine
04:31.41starseekerwhere does it grep out in the BRL-CAD tree?
04:32.21louipctkimg.so!
04:32.36starseekerOK, so the tkimg src is the place to look
04:32.54louipcyep I'll go about making a separate package when I get the chance
04:34.08starseekerWhere's the magic where mged selects the local tcl/tk packages?
04:34.26louipcmged? i dunno :P
04:34.35starseekerIt's doing it but archer isn't
04:35.29louipcwhoa mged is binary
04:36.51starseekerGrr
04:37.21starseekerJust trying to run /usr/brlcad/bin/bwish outright results in the /usr/lib/tcl8.4 libraries being used
04:37.37louipchmm
04:38.46starseekergrr - rtwizard does the same thing!
04:39.06starseekerWild - it looks like only mged (so far) is doing whatever the "right thing" is
04:39.47starseekerand I still can't get itcl/itk to work from the system side
04:39.58louipchah I thought mged used bwish
04:40.18louipcI'm not even going to bother with that :D
04:40.34starseekergrepping in src/mged doesn't have a single match with wish
04:40.41louipcmy knowledge is too limited
04:40.55starseekerconfound it
04:41.34louipccould be a configure thing though
04:41.53starseekerMaybe...
04:42.01starseekerI'll build clean
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05:25.18brlcadlouipc: the Png_Init (and pretty much any [lib]_Init) function is a tcl hook function that gets automatically called during a load or package require
05:26.10brlcadit's not a png function, tkimg provides one because it has a png image loading interface, so there's a Png_Init for that submodule to tkimg
05:27.29brlcadmged does not use bwish, it has an embedded interpreter just like bwish does
05:28.51louipcah mged's command interface seemed identical to bwish
05:29.08brlcadit's very similar
05:29.20brlcadthough not strictly identical
05:29.34louipcis there a reason for having both?
05:29.47brlcadthey serve entirely different purposes
05:30.13louipcoh
05:31.05brlcadbwish is basically "wish" with brl-cad resources preloaded so you can write brl-cad tclscripts more easily and have access to many of the same commands that are in mged (like bu_brlcad_data)
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05:32.07brlcadas yukonbob_ noted, we could probably get rid of bwish/btclsh if someone(tm) makes the appropriate pkg files so one can do the appropriate package requires
05:34.06louipclike a tcl script?
05:34.27brlcadthere are already the needed [lib]_Init() routines, just need the pkgIndex.tcl files to get written/generated
05:35.13louipcright I was looking at archer scripts I think I know what you mean
05:35.35brlcadghost
05:35.43yukonbob_boo
05:35.55brlcad<PROTECTED>
05:35.59louipci have an alias to ghost/id
05:36.05louipcall in one go
05:36.26louipcI learned this when I was having those horrible connection issues
05:37.52brlcadsure you didn't typo?
05:37.54brlcadworks for me
05:38.16yukonbobya!
05:39.06yukonbobno -- nickserv give me nothing -- :P -- I talk to nickserv to authenticate my username all the time -- dunno what's going on...
05:39.12yukonbob*gives me nothing
05:40.50brlcadno console messages?
05:40.54brlcadmaybe being filtered
05:41.00brlcadbut nickserv is supposed to be unprotected
05:41.37brlcadeither way, it's just /msg nickserv ghost username password
05:41.57brlcadthat will kick username off the network so you can /nick
05:43.29yukonbob<PROTECTED>
05:43.35yukonbob<PROTECTED>
05:43.38brlcadlatter
05:44.06brlcadyou can ghost *from* any callsign
05:44.14brlcadI could ghost you if I knew your password
05:44.40yukonbobit's "brlcadr0x"
05:44.46yukonbobthe "0" is for security.
05:45.10brlcad00:44 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Password Incorrect
05:45.11brlcad;)
05:56.24brlcadyou just got here! :)
05:57.08yukonbob:) -- I'll think about getting those b[wish/tclsh] addressed and maybe start tmo... think while I'm sleeping :)
05:58.36yukonbobq: is the brep (ie: brep_simple) support only in HEAD?
05:58.46brlcadafaik, all that's needed is making a tclcad_Init() and a pkgIndex.tcl script for tclcad, bu, bn, rt, dm, fb, and pkg
05:59.04brlcadyes, only in head
05:59.34brlcadit was in the last release, but won't compile by default without editing configure.ac
05:59.58yukonbobah -- /me gets "...support is not available..."
06:00.15brlcadcya
06:01.44CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30210 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/comgeom/cvt.c: mark file as binary for windows
06:02.27CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30211 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/cy-g.c: add some comments about what some of the header fields mean
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06:03.10CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30212 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/cy-g.1: be explicit that the .cy file format is what cyberware is calling their Echo file format
06:05.10CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30213 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/fast4-g.c: they're file POINTERS not file descriptors, so use fp instead of fd when stashing fopen() pointers. fd's are for open().
06:21.11louipchow does one read while asleep!?
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08:21.18CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30214 10/brlcad/trunk/ (108 files in 26 dirs):
08:21.18CIA-31BRL-CAD: large conversion/specification of the fopen callers as to whether the file is
08:21.18CIA-31BRL-CAD: binary or text in order to help the Windows port along. Unless specifically
08:21.18CIA-31BRL-CAD: certain that there is no binary fields or EOL assumptions in the file reading,
08:21.19CIA-31BRL-CAD: the files are marked as binary in order to preserve format with other platforms.
08:21.21CIA-31BRL-CAD: also, be more consistent on using fp for fopen'd file pointers instead of fd
08:21.23CIA-31BRL-CAD: (which would be an open'd file descriptor).
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12:21.17starseekerOK, that's progress.  I must have not cleaned the tree after that first build attempt, and specifying to build internal tcl/tk didn't trigger a re-build of components built using the system tcl/tk
12:21.40starseekerAfter a clean rebuild, I'm now reproducing the error about png_read_destroy
12:26.12starseeker``Erik - is there some autoconf magic that can/should be auto-rebuilding in a case like that?  Just curious.
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13:01.34``Erika/det
13:13.49starseekerOK, now we're getting interesting.  After selecting the internal libpng, I get a window and the message "Failed to load plugins can't read "Archer::pluginMajorTypeWIzard": no such variable
13:14.56starseekerAfter I tell it OK, the flash screen appears very briefly and then I get bad path: ".file.rt" does not exist. "rt" not valid
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15:41.47CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30215 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/vls.c: overhaul comments and style throughout so that all routines look and behave similarly. inject spacing throughout for grouping and readability.
15:48.25CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30216 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: consistently make all magic numbers unsigned long integers. this helps quell warnings aside from just better representing the nature of the magic.
15:51.37CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30217 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (badmagic.c bu_tcl.c list.c magic.c): quell warnings, more consistency conversion for using unsigned longs for all magic numbers
15:53.08CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30218 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/bomb.c: need fcntl.h for open()
16:36.12toxygen<PROTECTED>
16:52.26CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30219 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/fbserv.c: Need code to increment the socket layer's reference count.\n
16:52.51CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30220 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/fbserv_obj.c: Need code to increment the socket layer's reference count.\n
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19:42.39CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30221 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/temp.c): make bu_temp_file take a size_t
19:45.12CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30222 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (19 files): quell a slew of compilation warnings regarding unused vars, type mismatches, and more.
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20:11.35``Erikcrap
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20:19.35CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30223 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (3 files in 3 dirs): add TCL_CPPFLAGS for bu.h
20:26.03CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30224 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_open.c: Initialize dbip->dbi_fd in db_open() to -1.
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21:29.42``Erik*yarghn*
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22:29.00CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30227 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/ (fb2cmap/fb2cmap.vcproj fb2rle/fb2rle.vcproj): Changed the executable's name.
23:01.25``Erikgettin' to be release time, yo
23:04.10louipcnice
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080206

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080206

00:13.20brlcadit is, but mged is still somewhat busted
00:14.04brlcadfailing regression test on head atm too .. trying to track it down
03:03.22``ErikO.o
03:03.25``Erikwhat's the error?
03:03.42``ErikI fixed some tcl crap in the adrt dir today after starseeker pointed it out
03:07.42starseeker"Failed to load plugins can't read "Archer::pluginMajorTypeWizard": no such variable
03:08.21starseekerI click OK on the error box, and then I get the splash screen.  Then:  bad path: ".file.rt" does not exist. "rt" not valid
03:41.16``Erikthat's bobs baby
04:02.56starseekerYep.  Unfortunately his Linux box seems to be waiting on svn...
04:36.58louipcstarseeker: damn the errors just keep flowing eh?
04:50.02starseekerlouipc:  I have a hunch that this one is mostly some sort of path issue, but I'm not enough of a tcl/tk guru (so far) to spot it
04:50.21starseeker(which is to say I know virtually squat about the details of packages in tcl/tk...)
04:56.16yukonbobstarseeker:  you could mv the "local" installation away somewhere (ie: mv /usr/lib/tcl /usr/lib/_tcl) and that should at least keep you from wondering which of the installs are being picked up -- from tclsh (or btclsh) the command "set auto_path" will tell you what the value of it's search path is -- and to be clear, the path is what's listed, and their sub-directories.
05:10.52starseekerI think the path is OK now - that was a different error
05:16.29starseekerOr rather, it's finding the path to the right libs in the system - now I'm wondering about the TCL/TK code itself and whether there isn't some convention in there somewhere that's Windows specific
05:17.46yukonbobI'm not following re: "convention"  -- Windows-specific convention for what?
06:23.26CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30228 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/cy-g.c:
06:23.26CIA-32BRL-CAD: refactor and simplify. make the header scanning case insensitive. refering to
06:23.26CIA-32BRL-CAD: a reference implementation, annotate which header lines are required and which
06:23.26CIA-32BRL-CAD: are optional. add checks for FILLED, SMOOTHED, INSIDE_OUT, and THETA_RIGHTHAND.
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07:45.44CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30229 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/cy-g.c:
07:45.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: read in the data files into an in-memory buffer before processing. this limits
07:45.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: processing to models that will fit in memory, but does make things a whole lot
07:45.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: easier for processing the dataset later for things like generating a mesh. also
07:45.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: added a check for VOIDVAL's, but just continuing is probably the wrong thing to
07:45.47CIA-32BRL-CAD: do.
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09:02.50brlcad:)
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10:00.16CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30230 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
10:00.16CIA-32BRL-CAD: heh, and I just ran into that same bug myself.. Bob fixed a bug in g-dxf where
10:00.16CIA-32BRL-CAD: it was using bu_optind as the argv[] index incorrectly. this would cause an env
10:00.16CIA-32BRL-CAD: var to get set for the main object name (at least on Mac OS X) giving something
10:00.16CIA-32BRL-CAD: like TERM_PROGRAM=Apple_Terminal as the object name instead of what was
10:00.17CIA-32BRL-CAD: specified on the command line.. resulting in something rather unexpected of
10:00.19CIA-32BRL-CAD: course.
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15:59.21CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30231 10/brlcad/trunk/include/config_win.h: Added macro for strncasecmp.
16:05.34brlcadnote to self, finally isolated bad ju ju on 30082 > BAD.patch
16:05.34brlcadsushi:~/brlcad morrison$ svn status
16:05.47brlcader, 30081:30082
16:47.05``Erik?
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20:48.53CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30232 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/tankill-g.c: Another mod for windows.
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21:20.58CIA-32libirc: 03blast007 * r369 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/Makefile.am: Make stupidBot build on linux again.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080207

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080207

02:11.03*** join/#brlcad illethal (n=oden@c-69-137-199-63.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
02:18.50CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r30233 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/geometry/Combination.java: Corrected import of Matrix index. Was assuming length of index is one byte, but is actually variable.
02:55.43illethalDoes anyone know how I can add more geometry to an object and extrude faces and such?
02:55.47illethalin Archer.
03:06.41brlcadillethal: most of the commands that work in mged work in archer, maybe refer to the mged quick ref cheat sheet for a sampling of commands available (particularly the editing commands for the operations you mentioned)
03:07.29brlcadarcher is still very much under development and not ready for production, lots of functionality missing compared to mged
03:07.47brlcadhowdy yukonbob
03:07.56yukonbobwhat's shaking brlcad?
03:08.08yukonbobhey illethal :)
03:10.25yukonbob"
03:10.53yukonboblike old=path=to=file.txt is the new filename for /old/path/to/file.txt
03:12.33louipcuse pipe :D
03:13.52louipcor... old)path)to)file.txt
03:14.57louipcactually I think comma is perfect
03:15.05louipcdon't even need to escape it
03:19.01yukonbob,old,path,file.foo
03:19.13yukonbob<PROTECTED>
03:19.14yukonbob:)
03:19.16louipchmm for some reason tab completion doesn't like =
03:19.32yukonbobin bash?
03:20.19louipcyea
03:20.52illethalthanks brlcad!
03:20.59louipchey, comma is like a mini curved slash anyways :D
03:22.08brlcadyukonbob: not much shakin
03:22.20brlcador :old:path:to:file.txt
03:56.08CIA-32libirc: 03blast007 * r370 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCClient.h src/IRCClient.cpp): s/CTMP/CTCP/
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15:02.57brlcadwow, that was a really tough bug to sort out
15:03.10brlcadand I'm still not sure I fully understand how it's happening
15:04.03Z80-Boybrlcad: what bug?
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15:36.26brlcadan issue low-level in the database handling
15:36.51``ErikO.o
15:36.53brlcadnothing exposed in a userland tool directly
15:37.38brlcadhola ``Erik
15:38.00``Eriknow I'm curious :D
15:41.03brlcada bit involved to explain, but it's a problem in db_open where subsequent calls on the same file can result in a closure of stdin
15:41.28``Erikneat
15:41.37brlcadanother symptom is fileno() of a valid fp returning 0 ...
15:42.07brlcad(and where fileno(stdin) is also still 0 and valid/unclosed)
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19:26.11brlcadhowdy
19:26.27yukonbob:) -- hows your DB issue coming?
19:54.15brlcadthink it's resolved
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20:12.05yukonbobnice
20:12.08yukonbob~brlcad ++
20:12.15yukonbob~brlcad++
20:12.23yukonbob~brlcad
20:12.23ibothmm... brlcad is like a learner wrapped in tofu best served chilled
20:12.31yukonbob~karma
20:12.31ibotyukonbob has karma of 2
20:12.36yukonbob~karma brlcad
20:12.37ibotbrlcad has karma of 1
20:12.48yukonbob~yukonbob
20:12.54yukonbob~brlcad
20:12.55iboti heard brlcad is like a learner wrapped in tofu best served chilled
20:13.04yukonbobhehe
20:19.13CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30234 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: add in a feature request from jennifer lagaz (and the modeling team previously) to have rtarea report local units instead of mm^2 and to have an option to override the local units with a command-line option at run-time.
20:22.57CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30235 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
20:22.57CIA-32BRL-CAD: need to reverify that rtarea is indeed producing correct data values per
20:22.57CIA-32BRL-CAD: comments/requests/investigations from lagaz, saucier, and mallory that it's
20:22.57CIA-32BRL-CAD: reporting differences upwards of several % difference (when it should be < 1%
20:22.57CIA-32BRL-CAD: error for most views). also finally fix the naming convention nomenclature for
20:23.00CIA-32BRL-CAD: presented/exposed surface areas.
21:19.11``Erik~karma
21:19.11ibot``erik has karma of 2
21:19.13``Erik~root
21:19.14ibotroot is probably not a Good Thing to use when using IRC. Please use a different account.
21:19.15``Erik:D
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21:48.19CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30236 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/Makefile.am: Add start of BRL-CAD Bibliography file (BibTeX format).
21:50.58CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30237 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/BRL-CAD.bib: Add start of BRL-CAD Bibliography file (BibTeX format) - add actual bib file.
21:57.58louipc~karma
21:57.58ibotlouipc has karma of 1
21:58.02louipcwoot
22:04.50``Erikw00t, starsucker finally committed something!
22:10.18poolio~starseeker++
22:10.23poolioallo y'all
22:13.39yukonbobhey poolio
22:18.45poolioso I'm debating putting my home directory in a versioning system :)
22:19.31louipchehe nice
22:20.46``Eriklarge chunks of mine is in cvs
22:20.58``Erikand stuff I edit in /etc and /usr/local/etc end up in RCS
22:23.37yukonbobs/dscm in development/dscm-in-development/
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23:53.29starseeker~karma
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080208

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080208

00:03.19*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
01:25.11PrezKennedy~karma
01:25.11ibotprezkennedy has karma of 3
01:25.15PrezKennedyw00t!
02:08.04starseeker``Erik:  heh - sucker because I suck or sucker for taking the new job? ;-)
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02:56.56yukonbob:)
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06:39.32CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30238 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (master/ slave/): targets apparently renamed to adrt_master and adrt_slave instead of isst_*
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07:17.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30239 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: bob indicates he fixed query_ray
07:31.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30240 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_open.c: (log message trimmed)
07:31.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: fix a bug introduced with the changeover of db_open to only using standard i/o
07:31.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: for all platforms instead of unix i/o with an uninitialized dbi_fd. the problem
07:31.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: was related to the failure case where null is returned, which mged intentionally
07:31.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: uses to determine if a file exists, where since with unix i/o a fp and an fd are
07:31.28CIA-32BRL-CAD: independently opened (instead of deriving one from the other) so the cleanup
07:31.30CIA-32BRL-CAD: code was closing the other. the close code was only checking for non-negative
07:33.10brlcadsahweet .. dbi_fd is already documented as private and warns of change ..
07:48.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30241 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
07:48.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: awesome, dbi_fd is already in a struct sections marked as private (for librt
07:48.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: only) and subject to change .. so change^Wremove it. there are surprisingly few
07:48.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: uses even in librt, so it seems really safe to remove the fd and avoid repeating
07:48.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: the same bug of corrupting file pointer streams by closing their associated
07:48.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: descriptor. go ahead and remove it, callers can always call fileno(dbi_fp) if
07:48.14CIA-32BRL-CAD: they really need to do unix i/o.
07:51.11CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30242 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
07:51.11CIA-32BRL-CAD: reprioritize to the items that are really the most critical for release, and the
07:51.11CIA-32BRL-CAD: ones that are not.. live with the rt crash and incrtcl configuration issue for
07:51.11CIA-32BRL-CAD: another release, but really need to fix the mged issues before doing a rollout.
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08:12.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30243 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/vls.c:
08:12.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: rewrite bu_vls_gets() to use bu_fgets() instead of manually doing a getc()
08:12.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: iteration loop by itself. this lets the routine get the cross-platform benefits
08:12.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: of bu_fgets() for handling Windows files stream carriage returns aside from just
08:12.39CIA-32BRL-CAD: simplifying the implementation.
08:16.48Z80-BoyI wonder when some people say "honestly,..."
08:16.58Z80-BoyIf it means that by default they talk dishonestly?
08:29.38alex_jonimaybe neutral
08:30.02alex_joniwhich isn't quite honestly, nor dishonestly (just not telling all the truth :)
08:30.56CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30244 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/units.c: ws
08:33.40CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30245 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/vls.c): quell all compilation warnings and convert bu_vls_strncat, bu_vls_strncpy, and bu_vls_strncmp to all use a size_t parameter instead of an int len.
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18:06.05``Erik*buildbuildbuild*
18:12.13CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30246 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/mged/ged.c src/mged/mged.1): foreground mode is now default for MGED. -b option added to background.
18:13.18brlcadthat was quick
18:13.28``Erikheh, yeah
18:13.38``Erikit was a 4 character change
18:13.44``Erikmost of the effort was document updating
18:29.41``ErikI feel like I should have a straw hat on and a garden claw in my hand
18:39.10``Erikho hum
18:48.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30247 10/brlcad/trunk/ (96 files in 22 dirs): upgrade tcl/tk to 8.5.1
18:49.15``Erikhehehe
18:49.22``Erikhttp://www.comet7.com/
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19:16.35yukonbobso mged doesn't automagically detach and background now?
19:17.31``Erikcorrect
19:17.40yukonbob~``Erik++
19:17.49``Erikand the -f option went away, there is now a -b option to background
19:19.00CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30248 10/brlcad/trunk/ (75 files in 9 dirs): update libpng to 1.2.24
19:19.19``Erik<-- gettin' hungry :/
19:20.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30249 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: scratch off the foreground/background issue
19:28.19``Erik"XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more." heh
19:30.17yukonbobreminds me of the jwz quote about regexes. Something to effect of: "Some people, when confronted with a problem think: 'I know, I'll use a regular expression!'  Now they've got two problems"
19:30.55``Erikheh
19:31.13``Erikjwz has said some good things and some stupid things *shrug* I think he's running a night club now O.o
19:32.36``Erikbleh
19:33.38yukonbobDNA in San Fran, iirc
19:33.58``Erikyeah, something like that... knew it was sf, I think that's the name
19:34.16brlcadregex ftw!
19:34.33yukonbobhowdy brlcad
19:34.37brlcadhowdy howdy
19:36.24``Erikheh
19:36.50``Erikand sadly 'preg' doesn't use thompson style evaluation :(
19:40.57brlcadposix regex is pretty standard
19:41.21brlcada few things you can't do with it as easily as you can with perl's but it's pretty damn expressive for most tasks
19:41.34brlcadand you can run perl in posix-mode iirc
19:42.17brlcadthe libregex implementation in brl-cad is one of the bsd/posix impls, pretty reliable and fast
20:59.24*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
20:59.24*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release 7.12.0 coming soon to a desktop near you
21:28.20CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03tossup * r30250 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/geometry/Tree.java: Added getters
21:30.43CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03tossup * r30251 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/geometry/BrlcadDb.java: Added getObjectNames(), getDbExternal(). Modified scan() to show more debug info, then commented it out
21:31.39``Erikwho gave that tosser a commit bit? :>
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21:51.55CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03tossup * r30252 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/geometry/DbObject.java: Added getAttributes()
21:53.49CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03tossup * r30253 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/samples/GetRegionMap.java: Add GetRegionMap.java which reads a .g file and prints regions and their attributes including path from top to region
23:33.40CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30254 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/BRL-CAD.bib: Add start of BRL-CAD Bibliography file (BibTeX format).
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080209

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080209

00:12.56CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30255 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/BRL-CAD.bib: More references.
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12:23.07CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30256 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (adrt/Makefile.am other/tcl/Makefile.am): distcheck changes
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14:21.41CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30257 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/Makefile.am: include rtwizard.bat in the dist
14:23.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30258 10/brlcad/trunk/Makefile.am: update the distcheck hook for finding missing files to work with Subversion
15:10.53brlcadah, now that is the shizzle
15:11.36brlcada quick refcard written in docbook with images and multilingual po files ..
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15:53.32starseekerbrlcad:  You mean that's first on the list?
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16:31.55starseekerGood lord this docbook toolchain setup is odd
16:34.07brlcadstarseeker: hm?
16:34.21starseekerI can't get even a basic pdf to print out
16:34.39brlcadthe refcard I was referring to was a diff project
16:34.45starseekerAh
16:34.56starseekerStill, this toolchain is driving me nuts
16:35.08brlcadthey created a refcard that used db with imagery, diagrams, and had a multilingual backend
16:35.25starseekerNice
16:35.33starseekerIs it online anywhere?
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16:47.15starseekerIt looks like setting up the dtd file location for building the docbook stuff cross-platform could be entertaining
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16:54.07brlcadyeah, it is
16:54.09brlcadhttp://people.debian.org/~debacle/refcard/
16:55.32brlcadthose set of web pages, the various translations, diagrams, and the pdf are all stashed in a docbook data format with some metaformats for things like the images and a diagram (which actually doesn't render unfortuantely)
16:56.56brlcadthey use xslt instead of dsssl so the format processing is a bit different than what I'd originally had in mind
16:58.11brlcadi'm rather highly doubtful I could easily create the mged cheat sheet using either xsl or dsssl, but it's an interesting approach
17:00.48brlcadbut hey, if xsl can be made to work easier, then so be it
17:18.40brlcadstarseeker: if I haven't shown it before, here's a project that manages their docs pretty comprehensively as docbook that are a really good example to follow
17:18.46brlcadhttp://www.firebirdsql.org/
17:19.46brlcadall their (extensive) docs go through their doc system, e.g. writing guide: http://www.firebirdsql.org/manual/docwritehowto.html
17:19.56brlcadhttp://www.firebirdsql.org/?op=doc
17:20.26brlcadthey handle images, diagrams, translations, etc ..
17:21.07brlcadiirc, they do everything through fop (java) but provide pretty much everything you need
17:21.34brlcadmight just work to follow them exactly at first and then diverge later as/if needed
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17:26.28brlcadanother good example are the gentoo and debian docs
17:30.06archivistphp and mysql are similar if not the same (I have written readers against the xml sources of php and mysql to feed my bot database)
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21:34.59starseekerbrlcad:  Just curious - how come we don't turn on the optimize flag by default?
21:38.45starseeker(I probably asked that before...)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080210

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080210

02:30.35brlcadstarseeker: on the surface, it's six of one, half dozen of the other .. but the one main desirable trait is so that it's more useful overall that binaries built by people that don't read the docs have better debugging characteristics than it is for those binaries to run faster
02:31.20brlcadproduction binaries go out as optimized
02:32.01brlcadalso non-optimized builds complete in nearly half the compilation time, and are by far the more common case even for cad devs
03:23.42starseekerAh :-)
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14:30.41illethalIllethal in the house.
14:31.13Axman6aiight!
14:40.40illethalAxman6.
14:40.48brlcadsup
14:40.48illethalYou wouldn't by any change like battletech?
14:40.49Axman6'lo
14:41.03Axman6i might if i knew what it was...
14:41.08illethalHaha.
14:41.10illethalOkay.
14:41.17illethalCause Axman is a mech in the show.
14:41.22illethalA very cool one.
14:41.26Axman6haha, awesome :P
14:41.43Axman6nah it comes from my name, AleX MAsoN ;)
14:41.58illethalVery nice.
14:43.16illethalCan mged run in the tty?
14:43.23illethalWithout x running.
14:43.29illethaljust wondering.
14:43.39illethalProbably would have to have framebuffer or something?
14:44.49Axman6eww, coral sex on TV
14:44.56Axman6and people swimming in it!
14:45.03brlcadillethal: sure, run mged -c
14:45.03illethalHaha wtf.
14:45.25illethalbrlcad: Because I have a gentoo box (I am a linux noob) sitting right next to me, with no window manager.
14:45.57brlcadthe answere's still "sure, run mged -c" :)
14:46.08illethalthanks.
14:46.11illethalI'll remember that
14:46.19illethalAre you familiar with gentoo?
14:46.24brlcad-c for "classic"/"console" mode
14:46.30brlcadyep
14:46.33illethalawesome.
14:46.38Axman6-c for "cool" mode*
14:46.41illethalDo you know the name I would use to search for?
14:46.44illethalmged?
14:46.46illethalin portage.
14:46.54brlcadit gives you the option to run the old X11 gui or stay completely command-line based
14:47.12illethalI'd roll with command-line.
14:47.18brlcadportage has a brlcad package, but it's masked iirc
14:47.32illethalso I'd search for brlcad?
14:47.38brlcadyeah
14:47.54illethalHmm it says there are no ebuilds.
14:48.23illethalSorry to be buggin' you guys.
14:53.58Axman6ewwww, the whale sharks meet t this place to the coral spawning >_<
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14:54.19Axman6to feed
14:54.40illethalNational geographic?
14:54.49illethalAtleast it's not caveman pr0n
14:54.54Axman6well a docco on TV
14:54.55Axman6oooright
14:55.03illethalHahaha
14:55.11Axman6i bet cavemen knew how to treat a woman
14:55.19Axman6or just rape them
14:55.24Axman6yeah that's more likely
14:57.40illethalNot much different from chimps back then
14:58.30illethalI think I'll have to use wget for this?
14:58.35illethalAnd like extract all the files and such?
14:58.43Axman6sure
14:58.48Axman6it's pretty simple to compile though
14:59.04illethalYeah but I am a newb =\
14:59.04Axman6bleh, i'm so over linux
14:59.11Axman6it has no `open` command!
14:59.18illethalhaha
14:59.45illethalDo you know the URL I could get the package from?
14:59.56Axman6check the brl-cad site
15:00.00illethalk
15:00.14Axman6won't be a 'package' as such, it's the source code
15:00.30illethalDamn sounds hardcore.
15:00.38illethalTake 50 years to compile?
15:00.42Axman6itz totz l33t m4n!
15:00.46Axman6nah
15:01.24Axman6takes a little while, but you just run "./configure --enable-optimized && make && sudo make install"
15:02.19illethalthat's for ubuntu
15:02.56illethalrunnin' genp00 on some tiney ass mini-itx computer that was originally meant to be a car computer, but instead we decided to make it a phone server lol
15:03.27Axman6what do you mean by 'that's for ubuntu'?
15:03.55illethalsudo.
15:04.09illethalBut I guess it would work just fine if I was logged in as root.
15:04.18Axman6there's no sudo?
15:04.42Axman6sudo isn't an ubuntu command, it's been around for ages afaik
15:05.34illethalAh
15:05.50illethalWell I've only used it for ubuntu whenever I needed to become root for a task.
15:06.03Axman6it should have su installed at least
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15:53.42Axman6Elperion: connection issues?
15:54.07ElperionAxman6: not connetion issues but power loss issues :(
15:54.13Axman6yuck
15:54.16Elperionthe third time this day ... but never before
15:54.17Elperionyeah
15:54.36Elperionit's very annoying
15:54.45Axman6because you've been in and out for the last 4 hours or so
15:54.53Elperion......
15:55.07Elperioni also had got some problems with firefox ... -> two crashes
15:55.20Axman6you mean failfox? yeah you'll get that ;)
15:55.25Elperionand now i'm really frustrated because i'm using linux and it never crushed
15:56.44Elperion*usually never crashed
15:59.11archivistfailfox kills my debian every 2 months ish
16:00.26Elperion^^
16:01.00Elperioni was using firefox for very long time and never had problems :P
16:01.18Axman6i'm just used to a better quality browser ;)
16:32.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30259 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/URToolkit/ (cnv/rletoabA62/rletoabA62.c tools/clock/rleClock.c): quell compilation warnings
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16:35.47starseekerHey, cool - the openmoko phone project has released CAD files: http://www.openmoko.com/
16:36.08starseekerIGES/STEP and ProE
16:37.22CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30260 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/URToolkit/tools/ (rleccube.c to8.c): quellage
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16:55.49starseekerWell, the IGES one sorta converts... doesn't look like it will raytrace in finite time on my machine, but the wireframe is cool...
17:05.07starseekerHmm - anybody else noticing that with recent head closing all windows doesn't close the app?  Is this an expected behavior with the new default settings?
17:15.03starseekerJust to add one more to the screenshot count:  http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/iges-openmoko-conversion.png
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18:40.02brlcadstarseeker: looks like you imported via iges-g as nurbs surfaces, nifty -- does it actually raytrace cleanly?
18:40.23brlcadi'm sure it's dog-slow, that old nurbs implementation was never finished
20:13.28starseekerI can't tell if it would raytrace - my home machine doesn't have enough horsepower to get anywhere with it
20:16.12starseekerThere was some sort of spline option on the conversion it advised me about, but when I tried that it segfaulted
20:37.28yukonbobstarseeker: very cool, that phone.
20:37.57starseekerIndeed.  When they produce a commercial version I'm going to have a problem ;-)
20:39.00starseekerThat model is going to be a tough test case for a converter - iges-g sort of worked but raytrace was too slow for my machine, and now a g-dxf convert of that is bringing blender to it's knees
20:39.25starseekerer its rather
20:40.25starseekerMy previous cell phones I've gotten because they were the "OK, give me a phone Verizon" options
20:40.38starseekerThis I would want to support, but it's not going to be cheap
20:41.21yukonbobs/than in/that the/
20:41.27starseekerOn the other hand, if someone wants to develop better/new IGES, STEP and ProE converters we now have a real model to work with :-)
20:41.36starseekerI think the est. was around $350?
20:42.08yukonbobdepending on the specs. that sounds cheap for an open mobile...
20:43.25starseekerWait, that's the development phone - the FreeRunner will have Wifi and upgraded hardware, so maybe $450?
20:43.59starseekerStill not bad, since in theory you won't have to replace this phone every couple years to have the latest and greatest apps
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20:45.06starseekerThe screenshot is using iges-g
20:46.01starseekerOnce the new opennurbs stuff comes fully online, I expect a lot of the converters will need re-examination
20:46.30yukonbobheh "...so many different implementations with inself that conversion ...has become a small industry"
20:46.40yukonbob^-- IGES
20:46.48starseekerAh, fun
20:48.20yukonbobnurbs == surfaces, right?
20:50.09starseekerI'm not sure what we've got in this import, to be honest
20:50.32starseekerI'm guessing surfaces
20:50.59starseekerSeeing as this is a case model, it would make a really interesting sold model.
20:51.08starseekerer solid model (why can't I type today?)
20:51.52starseekerIt's too bad we don't have a good interrogation tool for getting physical dimensions off of individual surfaces
20:52.15starseekerAll the dimension info is sitting right there, but only the human eye will really be able to "see" the shapes needed
20:52.55yukonbobmaybe with beset one could hack something up... :)
20:53.24starseekerHeh - a "virtual ruler" moving around the model in BRL-CAD...
20:54.15yukonbobnotes say IGES format was extended to include solid models -- so the format can be capable, apparently...
20:55.03yukonbobI'm sure brlcad would know, but based on this description saying a format is "IGES" sounds only slightly more descriptive than saying a format is "binary" :P
20:57.39yukonbobis there any clue about what was used to generate the original file?
20:58.00CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30261 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/vert_tree.c: gah, don't include raytrace.h in libbn
20:58.09brlcadaccess to models is never a problem, real or otherwise
20:58.17brlcadbut it is nice to have detailed ones that can be redistributed
20:58.42brlcadyukonbob: what table?
20:59.41yukonbobVolumeIV, Table 2-4 "BRL-CAD conversion capabilities"
20:59.42brlcadthe phone did convert as surfaces, otherwise the wireframe would have been an intelligible polygonal mess
21:00.05yukonbob(I'm referencing my own docbook pdf build...)
21:00.49yukonbobs/intelligible/unintelligible
21:01.21brlcader, table 2-4 ?
21:01.40brlcadtable 1 is "BRL-CAD conversion capabilities" and it's a yes
21:02.02brlcadyou are referring to http://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeIV-Converting_Geometry.pdf ?
21:02.36brlcadheh, good catch .. UNintelligible
21:02.58yukonbob!
21:03.05starseekerbrlcad:  True, but I like having a detailed one with no re-distribution issues :-)  Makes things nice and simple
21:03.24brlcaddo they have a redistribution statement somewhere?
21:03.31yukonbob:P
21:03.32starseekerSharealike Creative Commons
21:03.57yukonbobmind-you -- I was following the .doc that was posted my way...
21:04.05starseekerIt's on the website
21:04.11starseekerhttp://www.openmoko.com/
21:07.47yukonbobglad we had this last few minutes :)
21:08.10yukonbobthe .doc has "-" for N and blank for Y when I use antiword to view...
21:08.32yukonbobI must have interpretted the - as a checkmark for "Y", and the blanks as "N"
21:12.14brlcadheh, fun
21:15.23starseekerlets rather
21:17.15starseekerbrlcad:  Is there any way to have BRL-CAD display a "raytracing progress" readout, e.g. "28 of an est. 2,000,000 rays traced"?
21:17.49Z80-Boystarseeker: lol
21:18.54starseekerZ80-Boy:  It'd be nice to know if raytracing that sucker could be done overnight or if it would take a year
21:19.53starseekerZ80-Boy:  Oh, bty, where is your website with the movies you produced again?
21:20.48Z80-Boystarseeker: or if you need to start believing in reincarnation ;-)
21:25.58brlcadstarseeker: thought about having some sort of command-line progress, or a means to query the active running process via port or signals
21:26.24brlcadfeasible, not a clear best-solution though ... downsides to each
21:27.21starseekerSure, but hopefully a "quick-and-dirty" X rays of Y total estimated rays would be simple to do as a command-line printout?  Surely not the best solution but at least it would be something
21:27.46brlcadcurrent thoughts are to make rt listen on a port and respond to a simple query protocol, so we could make some sort of status interface
21:27.55starseekerThat would be cool
21:29.08brlcadcould do the printout thing, maybe something like is done for photon mapping, printing out a % every X minutes
21:29.31starseekerThat would be good :-)
21:29.46brlcadjust that could get really annoying on big raytraces or traces that take a long time
21:30.07starseekerWell, it could be an option?
21:30.08brlcadand the junk it'd interleave if there was other output being reported like overlaps
21:30.26starseekerhmm
21:30.30yukonbobare overlaps stdout or stderr?
21:30.51brlcadvia bu_log, which is presently stderr
21:30.58brlcadthough working towards making that configurable
21:31.14brlcadso can more easily redirect to file, stdout, or null
21:31.46yukonbob"rt 2> my_file" would leave a clear workspace, and one could tail -f the myfile if they wanted to track errors...
21:32.48brlcadyeah, that's the current approach
21:34.18brlcadyay, finally done refactoring the magic numbers
21:36.12yukonbobfeh -- /me needs to co the svn repo  and use that now :)
21:36.22yukonbobbrlcad: same accounts?
21:37.04brlcadyep
21:37.15brlcad~cadsvn
21:37.16ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
21:37.24yukonbobnice thx :)
21:39.18yukonbobok -- /me lets that run and takes break from 'puter -- chat later folks :)
21:39.25brlcadthe first time you check in, you'll add --username and it'll prompt
21:39.41brlcadyou don't need to stop co
21:39.50brlcadfirst time you *ci*
21:40.01yukonbobahh --- /me misread -- fine --- all's well :)
21:40.02brlcadyou don't have to co as a user
21:40.19brlcadthat was a problem with cvs, not svn
22:35.34CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30262 10/brlcad/trunk/ (29 files in 2 dirs): convert all of the magic numbers from long integers to unsigned long integers. that in turn cascades similar changes where there is struct aliasing and pointers being stashed/used as object types
22:52.52CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30263 10/brlcad/trunk/src/burst/ (burst.c ui.c): use bu_temp_file() for opening a temp file instead of tmpnam(), specify all i/o as binary for Windows
23:02.30starseekerNo wonder the blender file took so long to convert - it's just a huge bunch of points
23:02.43starseekerer dxf file in blender rather
23:02.56yukonbob<nelson> ha ha blender </nelson>
23:03.19starseekerDoubt it's blender's fault
23:03.28starseekerour dxf file is probably rather... strange
23:04.16yukonbobstarseeker: don't mind me -- I'm not really following what's going on -- I blame blender anyway.
23:06.52yukonbobbrlcad: q: how do the cool kids do it: a) bu_exit(1, "foo\n"); or b) bu_log("foo\n");exit;
23:06.55yukonbob?
23:07.19yukonbobs/exit;/exit(1);/
23:08.10yukonbobreason I ask is that's one of the diff's that's in the current documentation and my own copy...
23:08.38yukonbob(where current documentation == fresh svn co of the same docbook file)
23:17.57yukonbob*awaits
23:29.21brlcadyukonbob: the cool kids use bu_exit() now, one line instead of two
23:30.13brlcadstarseeker: there's nothing strange about our dxf export that I'm aware of
23:30.33brlcadin fact historically, we've had much better dxf import and export support compared to blender
23:30.33yukonbobbrlcad: nice -- somebody else must've made that change in the CVS repo --- I'll preserve it
23:30.43brlcadblender's has *sucked*
23:30.52yukonbob<nelson> ha ha blender </nelson>
23:32.19brlcadwe only export polygons via g-dxf, so barring a newly introduced bug (which would generally be obvious in the dxf) I'd think it more something blender is doing
23:32.36brlcadanother test might be to run dxf-g and see what it looks like
23:32.55brlcadshould just be a slew of polygons unless it exported some other format
23:33.23brlcadhm, *might* be because they were nurbs surfaces, if that old nurbs primitive didn't polygonalize
23:33.41brlcadbut only way to tell is to read the dxf
23:33.46brlcador the sources
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00:17.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bharder * r30264 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/book/VolumeIV.xml: Fixed mis-reading (or was it backwards day?) of a table where all entries were reversed from what they needed to be, and a minor typo.
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00:48.41foggy[mem]I've downloaded the linux ia32 binary from sourceforge and am having difficulty finding the install/run instructions. Could someone point me to the directory containing these?
00:52.33foggy[mem]Wow it's so difficult to use no one can even point me to the install instructions! That's pretty bad.
00:57.42foggy[mem]Never mind found the man directory.
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01:31.29cad56that's better...
02:21.35brlcadheh, the idea I had for implementing progress via a process symbol is actually already implemented .. send rt a SIGINFO and it'll start reporting progress
02:29.03brlcadimplemented by mike on Wed Mar 8 06:37:03 2000
02:29.19brlcadlooks like you can send a SIGUSR1 or a SIGINFO
02:52.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30265 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/rt.1: document the SIGINFO/SIGUSR1 progress signals that rt will respond to
02:55.10CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30266 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: add a note for rt's documentation update just so more folks are aware that rt will in fact provide progress status if it receives a SIGINFO/SIGUSR1 signal
03:25.05CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30267 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: make sure the opengl context was initialized
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06:36.28brlcadhello cad05
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07:15.27Z80-BoyI appreaciate the binary import function in mged is now fixed.
07:15.31Z80-BoyIt's the first time I used it
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13:56.37toxygenbrlcad: hi, i wanted to ask, any progress with .cy files from cyberware?
14:01.49brlcadtoxygen: yeah, a fair bit
14:02.45brlcadstill not done, juggling against other tasks, but so far it actually looks like it's something specific with that particular cy file .. still have some more work
14:03.29brlcadwe do properly parse the header get all the parameters and get all the data values correctly
14:04.08brlcadsomething is screwy with the actual ARS being generated, which from everything I've done so far seems to indicate that what it's showing is what the data values say is there
14:04.33brlcadbut like I said, that's pretty preliminary .. I still have more to look into for certain
14:07.02toxygenok, thanks for trying :)
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16:06.36*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release 7.12.0 coming soon to a desktop near you
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21:00.13``Erikah HA!!~#!~@~ (SB-IMPL::TOPLEVEL-REPL NIL)
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22:36.48CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30269 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Uncomment the raytrace control panel menu item.
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19:12.18fwhiteanyone familiar with working with .dxf files? I am disabled and working on a project and need to have some parts cut I have the .dxf files but need adjustments for alignment of several parts. Can someone assist? I have no cad experience
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20:16.44iraytraceGesundheit
20:17.06CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30270 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/archer: Mods to set max width and height.
20:17.53CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30271 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Only erase ground plane if it's being drawn.
20:18.29CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30272 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Make updateTheme and Load public methods.
20:57.53CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30273 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/command.c: re-write backout code to actually work
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20:58.54CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30274 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: nirt backout is fixed
21:00.54magesingHi everyone. I just recently discovered BRL-CAD, and I'm starting to go through the tutorials. However, I am having trouble using the VI style editing in the command window. Once I hit <ESCAPE> to get into command mode, none of the letter-key commands work for me.  How can I make the vim-style editing work? Thanks.
21:13.26yukonbobhey magesing :)
21:13.40yukonbobwhat "command window" are you talking about?
21:28.25magesingyukonbob: the one in which you type the commands
21:29.02magesingyukonbob: The title bar says "MGED 7.10.4 Command Window"
21:35.46yukonbobmagesing: nice -- that's called "mged" -- it's a interactive editor, but not vi...
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21:36.36yukonbobfor now, think of it more like a command prompt.
21:36.52magesingyukonbob: According to the documentation I'm going through, the mged editor has two modes, a VI style mode and an EMACS style mode
21:37.12magesingyukonbob: I'm a VI user, and would prefer to use it in VI mode then in EMACS mode
21:37.18yukonbobhrmm...
21:37.23yukonbobwhat document is that?
21:37.32magesingyukonbob: But the VI mode does not seem to work properly...
21:37.49magesingVolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED.pdf
21:37.56yukonbobone sec
21:37.58magesingwhich I got from brlcad.org
21:38.14magesingAppendix B gives the different style commands
21:41.56yukonbobmagesing: can you give me an example of something that's not working?
21:43.54magesingyukonbob: Sure... ok, if I choose VI mode from FILE->PREFERENCES->COMMAND LINE EDIT->VI then type "foobar" then hit <ESCAPE> to get into command mode, I should be able to use the "h" and "l" keys to move back and forth, and the "x" key to delete... this simply doesn't happen.
21:44.44magesingI also am unable to get back into edit mode from command mode since A and i don't work
21:46.08magesingIn EMACS mode <CTRL>-F, <CTRL>-B, and <CTRL>-D work properly
21:47.18magesingyukonbob: so, basically what I'm saying is once I get into command mode when I'm in the VI editing mode, none of the commands work for me
21:50.31yukonbobhrmm... it works on mine -- and we're both running 7.10.4 -- sorry for the basic question, but not a capslock issue?
21:51.00magesingyukonbob: well, capslock is off... let me experiment with caps-lock a bit
21:51.54magesingyukonbob: nope. Caps-lock does not help or hinder me at this point
21:52.02magesingI still get no response from command mode
21:52.18yukonbobya -- only thing I was thinking is if it's on...
21:52.38magesingyukonbob: I know... hjkl would actually be HJKL
21:52.56magesingyukonbob: but I have tried lots of caps/shift combinations, none of which worked
21:56.30yukonbob1 sec magesing  -- I'm just checking something out...
21:56.54magesingyukonbob: thanks...
22:06.10magesingIn case it makes a difference, I have installed brl-cad under gentoo-linux using the e-build in the gentoo-science overlay
22:16.40yukonbobmagesing: I going to be afk for a bit ... bbl -- what I'm think of test (for the record) is if emacs and vi bindings work in 'classic' (mged -c) mode, and testing outside of X
22:16.46yukonbobbbl
22:17.19magesingyukonbob: hmm... I'll try that
22:19.06yukonbobmagesing: I'm not sure how to set the mode outside of X, though -- if you find out, lemme know :)
22:19.23magesingyukonbob: lol, I don't know.... hmm...
22:19.56yukonbobmagesing: I'm sure there's a way -- I was just exploring that -- but gotta run -- chat later...
22:20.08magesingyukonbob: thanks
22:20.12magesingyukonbob: another time maybe
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23:15.22yukonbobbrlcad: what's the purpose of the errorCode/errorInfo -- sounds basic enough, but they're being set everytime a single character is typed... what are they checking-for/failing-on that causes that?
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05:24.42brlcadyukonbob: that's news to me -- they should be strings that Tcl manages with error messages in them
05:25.01brlcadthey can be error messages for *anything*, similar to errno
05:27.44brlcadin mged (at least on the C side), it should only get reported during dbopen and parsing the .mgedrc
05:34.31brlcadand I don't see anything of relevance on the tcl side either ..
06:24.11yukonbobbrlcad: try this:
06:24.22yukonbobproc vartrace {n1 n2 op} { puts "$n1: $op -- [set $n1]"
06:24.22yukonbob}
06:24.36yukonbobtrace add variable errorCode write vartrace
06:24.36yukonbobtrace add variable errorInfo write vartrace
06:36.28yukonbob... new version:
06:36.30yukonbob.
06:36.50yukonbobproc vartrace {n1 n2 op} { puts "$n1: $op -- $::errorInfo"
06:36.50yukonbob}
06:37.01yukonbobtrace add variable errorInfo write vartrace
06:37.37yukonbob^-- type this into mged, and then watch as you type your commands... see if anything looks familiar (error-wise)
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13:41.46brlcadyukonbob: I'm not sure what that's actually showing me
13:41.55brlcadother than internal tcl garbage
13:43.09brlcadi'm not seeing error messages, just temp junk from the commands
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15:13.27brlcadwell I've at least finally traced down the cause of why the opengl framebuffer stopped working
15:14.23brlcadit was the machine.h change that made smp work on the intel macs .. it was falling through to the static case and that apparently works
15:23.02``Erikhrm, all that trouble cuz we've been putting off moving that functionality into configure.ac :D
15:26.40brlcadthat doesn't matter
15:26.51brlcadstill doesn't explain why it's actually not working
15:27.24brlcadif it were in configure, it'd still be just as broken because it's getting to the section that *should* be right
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16:34.44clock_brlcad: unfortunately the BRL-CAD documentation is not very helpful when it contains errors like this: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1892876&group_id=105292&atid=640802
16:38.35brlcadk, thx
16:39.11clock_you're welcome
16:39.32clock_I don't mean it as criticism I just want to say it's hard to learn in a situation like this
16:40.02brlcadunderstandably
17:42.52CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30275 10/brlcad/trunk/src/lgt/resource.c: ws and header
17:43.29CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30276 10/brlcad/trunk/src/lgt/do_options.c: cleanup function, unprotect since bu_avail_cpus() does the protection for us.
17:47.32CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30277 10/brlcad/trunk/src/lgt/do_options.c: if there's only one proc, don't bother asking
17:50.48CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30278 10/brlcad/trunk/src/lgt/resource.c: wtf, the functions in resource.c arent' even used. get rid of it.
17:51.28CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30279 10/brlcad/trunk/src/lgt/Makefile.am: remove the unused resource.c
18:21.35CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30280 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/parallel.c: make bu_avail_cpus() behave neatly if we're not compiling PARALLEL so that it just returns 1
18:42.44CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30281 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 6 dirs):
18:42.44CIA-31BRL-CAD: remove/refactor DEFAULT_PSW from machine.h so that now it's really just up to
18:42.44CIA-31BRL-CAD: rt_avail_cpus() to report the max and up to the user to decide how many. the
18:42.44CIA-31BRL-CAD: default is now consistently set the same for everyone to the number of
18:42.44CIA-31BRL-CAD: processors available. if someone needs to re-port to an old CRAY and specifying
18:42.46CIA-31BRL-CAD: -P1 from userland isn't sufficient, we can refactor a bu_default_cpus() routine
18:42.48CIA-31BRL-CAD: with better logic. one step closer to removing machine.h
19:10.40CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30282 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/machine.h src/libbu/convert.c): get rid of IEEE_FLOAT .. the code didn't actually use it except for one case in 'cv' and was set to 1 for all platforms. if something needs to know, there are configure tests for ieee float.
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21:31.40CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30283 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/machine.h src/libbu/malloc.c):
21:31.40CIA-31BRL-CAD: remove MALLOC_NOT_MP_SAFE from machine.h, moving it to src/libbu/malloc.c and
21:31.40CIA-31BRL-CAD: enabling it for all platforms. there were only a few old platforms that were
21:31.40CIA-31BRL-CAD: not specifically set as malloc-not-mp-safe and it's not clear which of those
21:31.40CIA-31BRL-CAD: were actually verified as safe so just turn it on for all for now.
21:54.01CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30284 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/ (Makefile.am scat.h): scat.h seems to be completely unused, remove it
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23:09.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30285 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/parallel.c: ansify
23:10.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30286 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): remove FOPEN_MAX from machine.h, moving it over to the only single place it's used over in libtermio.
23:16.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30287 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (bu.h machine.h): with the exception of the convex (where it was 'long long'), bitv_t was set to 'long' for all platforms. so move the bitv_t typedef out of machine.h and into bu.h
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23:56.31Genestealerhey peoples
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080214

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080214

00:01.12GenestealerI've compiled/installed BRL-CAD from source, but I don't know what do i have to do next to run the program, does anyone can help me with this?
00:02.35louipcGenestealer: mged (the modeller) is probably what you want to run
00:03.22Genestealerk, thanks, i'll try
00:03.50louipccheck out the tutorials on the website
00:03.56*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl107.esjtvtli.sover.net)
00:04.46louipcthat one especially > http://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED.pdf
00:06.13Genestealerok, i got it running, thanks for help, and for tutorial
00:06.58louipccheers
00:09.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30288 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 4 dirs): move genptr_t and fastf_t from machine.h over to bu.h including the various FASTF define limits. might later consider moving them to their own header if/when they become configurable or if bu.h gets broken up.
00:17.43CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30289 10/brlcad/trunk/include/machine.h: IBM_FLOAT is unused
00:20.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30290 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (common.h machine.h): move HIDDEN over to common.h since it's generic. could be set by configure.
00:30.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30291 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (bu.h machine.h):
00:30.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: move BITV_MASK over from machine.h to bu.h; remove the hypot() decl/protections
00:30.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: outright even if they didn't make it to c89 (it made c99).. if we have a live
00:30.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: system that has the problem, the appropriate configure foo can be added to
00:30.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: provide the decl/impl
00:48.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30292 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (bu.h machine.h): migrate the FAST comments
01:02.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30293 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (bu.h machine.h):
01:02.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: move MAX_PSW from machine.h over to bu.h, fixing the value at 1024 for now (the
01:02.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: max value present in machine.h). this makes that the hard limit on number of
01:02.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: procs/threads that may be spawned at a minor (trivial) memory expense when not
01:02.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: in full use. ray-trace performance does not seem to be affected by the size of
01:02.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: the tables.
01:28.32starseekerbrlcad: you on?
01:44.56brlcadyeah
01:57.25starseekerWhere's a good example of the pattern tool?
02:24.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30294 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): convert to BU_BITV_SHIFT and BU_BITV_MASK for consistency
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03:53.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30295 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/Makefile.am: if building with --enable-only-benchmark or --enable-only-librtserver we STILL need to traverse into zlib, libpng, libregex, opennurb, and tnt since they're dependencies of other required libs.
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06:22.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30296 10/brlcad/trunk/ (BUGS TODO): (log message trimmed)
06:22.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: annotate the results of the OpenGL framebuffer bug hunt. the problem seems to
06:22.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: be directly related to SMP processing with the ogl framebuffer interface. with
06:22.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: PARALLEL turned off, it works just fine; with it on, the app crashes during the
06:22.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: first OpenGL write call into the glx context likely indicating that either the
06:22.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: context initialization is invalid (perhaps needing to occur per-thread) or data
06:22.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: needs to be semaphore protected. either way, enough progress was made to push
06:34.36brlcadwow, that's wicked..
06:35.10brlcadstarseeker: sorry, missed the question -- vol IV has a pattern tool tutorial iirc
06:37.02brlcadwicked, though .. is that converting our bitv_shift from being a static int to an inlined function actually increased performance measurably ..
06:37.38brlcadi can only imagine that it has to be alignment effects coming into play with the optimization loop, as they should be readily vectorized, but it's still pretty .. wicked
07:10.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30297 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/bu.h include/machine.h src/libbu/bitv.c): (log message trimmed)
07:10.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: rewrite how the BU_BITV_SHIFT is calculated, instead of using hard-coded
07:10.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: constants in machine.h it now determines the value automatically at
07:10.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: compile-time. this was achieved using an inlined integer log2 function that
07:10.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: computes the size based on sizeof(bitv_t), using a technique from the U. of
07:10.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: Kentucky's Aggregate Magic Algorithms collection. a cursory performance impact
07:10.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: analysis was performed testing both unoptimized and optimized compilations (on
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07:27.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30298 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (machine.h orle.h):
07:27.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: obliterate BIG_ENDIAN and LITTLE_ENDIAN defines.. which actually weren't used
07:27.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: anywhere except one use in orle. Most of the current code presently uses
07:27.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: NATURAL_IEEE and REVERSED_IEEE instead. header cleanup too, make it clear that
07:27.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: machine.h is now fully deprecated.
07:29.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30299 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/deprecation.txt: document that the contents of machine.h was marked as deprecated during 7.10. the file was 'officially' emptied out in 7.12 and should be ready for removal after a few subsequent releases.
07:53.43CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30300 10/brlcad/trunk/ (INSTALL configure.ac include/machine.h):
07:53.43CIA-4BRL-CAD: Woo hoo.. machine.h is now gone. Refactor the last bit for defining PARALLEL by
07:53.43CIA-4BRL-CAD: making a configure --enable-parallel option (which defaults to yes for now) with
07:53.43CIA-4BRL-CAD: aliases for --enable-parallel-build, --enable-smp, and --enable-smp-build. only
07:53.43CIA-4BRL-CAD: other bit remaining was sgi/mips settings, but at least irix6 does set them both
07:53.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: with gcc and mipspro so they should be fine.
08:14.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30301 10/brlcad/trunk/include/conf/PATCH: haven't been diligent in updating the patch on this minor as big changes have occurred, but at least the machine.h change begs for it to be bumped.
08:14.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30302 10/brlcad/trunk/include/Makefile.am: don't install conf.h or machine.h
08:35.30brlcadWHOOSH!
08:42.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30303 10/brlcad/trunk/ (906 files in 54 dirs): this day has been coming for so long.. machine.h is dead, all hail machine.h's death. uninclude it everywhere and add a preprocessor warning for anyone else that is still including/using it.
09:30.28alex_jonimachine.h is dead. long live machine.h ?
09:30.37alex_jonithat's how it goes for kins usually :)
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11:56.04*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release 7.12.0 coming soon to a desktop near you
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14:34.27brlcadalex_joni: not quite, hail it's death :)
14:34.32brlcader, s/'//
14:34.53brlcadit's needed to die for a long long time
14:37.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30304 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/text.tcl: Replaced Tcl's gets with a version that works with MGED's command window.
14:43.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30305 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ged.c: Mods to get puts working wrt stdout and stderr.
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15:40.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30306 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): undefine USE_PROTOTYPES before including rle.h to avoid redefining
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17:04.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30307 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/librt/librt.vcproj: Remove parse.c and comb.c
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18:26.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30308 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (8 files): move from casting pointers to ints and printing %x to just printing %p
19:05.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30309 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: didn't intentionally leave debug turned on, turn it off
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20:29.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30310 10/brlcad/trunk/include/config_win.h: Add define for inline.
20:29.43Attilonehi guys
20:30.33AttiloneI've used brl-cad for some time, any improvement in the next release?
20:35.33``Erikalways
20:36.04Attiloneany improvement on the rendering side'
20:36.05Attilone?
20:36.13``Erikwhich "rendering" side?
20:36.33``Erikthe raytracers?
20:37.42``Erikhttp://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/NEWS?revision=30266&view=markup
20:39.00``Erik* document the signals rt responds to for progress - Sean Morrison
20:39.01``Erik<PROTECTED>
20:39.01``Erik<PROTECTED>
20:39.01``Erik<PROTECTED>
20:39.01``Erik<PROTECTED>
20:39.01``Erik<PROTECTED>
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20:39.22``Erikheh, woops, mouse puke
20:39.50Attilonelol
20:40.02Attilonesorry but I didn't want you to report all the news
20:40.11AttiloneI can read'em by myself :P
20:41.22``Erikyeah, I was trying to paste 'em into a vim window to do a quick cut/sort/count, but hit the wrong terminal
20:41.35AttiloneXD
20:41.54Attiloneanyway brlcad has a good potential :D
20:42.31``Erikit's kinda like vim or emacs... insanely powerful, but insane learning curve, not a "casual" tool
20:42.33Attiloneif only would be possible to program it  trough python...
20:42.48Attilonevim rocks! I use it all the time
20:42.59``Erikw00t, another vimmer!
20:43.04Attilone:D
20:43.12Attilonewe will conquer the world xD
20:43.37``Erikthere was a brief effort to "swigify" it, but it put on someone who lacked the experience and fundamental knowledge :/
20:44.16``Erik<-- just recently gutted what little python there was in BRL-CAD O:-)
20:44.35Attiloneif it was on me I would put all the raytracing stuff apart and concentrate only on the 3D modeling
20:45.59``Erik*shrug* I get paid to work on it, so mgmt types get to tell me what I'm supposed to work on :/
20:46.48Attiloneyou work on brl-cad?
20:48.53yukonbobbrlcad: the other day, I was looking for a way to switch edit modes  (ie: vi or emacs) -- is there a way to do that from the cmdline? (ie: using mged -c)
20:57.55yukonbobAttilone: /me wonders if one  could wrangle Python/Tcl together wrt BRL-CAD via Tkinter...
20:59.22AttiloneI have no idea, maybe it could be done via swig
20:59.48Attilonebut the program is very complex
20:59.58yukonbobcertainly it could be done via swig -- what I'm whimisically wondering is if:
21:00.21yukonbobin python, import Tkinter -- which is full tcl/tk afaik
21:00.58yukonbobthen work the Tcl to import necessary libs, source the mged tcl code and have a python window into the tcl parts...
21:01.17yukonbob*whimsically
21:01.36Attiloneit would be nice :D
21:02.21yukonbobit's worth looking into -- could be a really cool discovery...
21:03.22Attilonemhhh I'm much more interested on the modeling side rather than the raytracing
21:04.00AttiloneI would like to take just the source code related to the modelling and wrap it into pytohn
21:07.15Attiloneyup I've used mged
21:07.35Attilonebut I would like to do the same in python :D
21:08.13``ErikI'd kinda be surprised if tkinter "just worked", we use [incr], tkImg, blt, ...
21:09.00yukonbob``Erik: well -- tcl _is_ built to be embedded, and that's what python does...
21:09.50yukonbobAttilone: I'm still not following you -- are you saying you do want mged, or you don't?
21:12.46Attiloneyukonbob: I would like to use a python interface rather than mged
21:15.23yukonbobAttilone: so strictly command-line, or GUI?
21:16.20Attiloneboth of them if possible
21:16.28yukonboblike mged -- but python
21:16.36Attiloneehm.. yes
21:16.59yukonbobyou typically script (or try to) your modelling?
21:18.40Attilonejust imagine: you want to extrude a profile to make a kind of solid, you type "extrude()" or push the extrude icon...
21:19.02Attilonethen a window is displayed where you draw your 2D profile...
21:19.43Attilonethe 2D surface is splitted in triangle, each triangle is extrude and all of them are joined in a single solid
21:19.51Attilone*extruded
21:20.45yukonbobAttilone: no need to imagine -- there is extrude
21:21.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30311 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/asc2g/asc2g.vcproj: Replaced 7.11.0 with a variable.
21:25.55Attiloneyes but it's not very usable, "extrude 1234 56" is not the best I can think of
21:26.22Attilonejust my opinion...
21:58.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30312 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: For some reason inline causes problems with some of the apps on windows. So, for the moment, it gets if'ed out.
22:05.18``Erik#ifdef WIN32
22:05.23``Erikbu_bomb("broken os");
22:05.25``Erik:D
22:06.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30313 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: Oops! I checked in the wrong version.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080215

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080215

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00:29.33brlcadyukonbob: yes there is a way to switch edit modes from mged classic mode ..
00:30.34brlcadat least I think there is, lemme see
00:33.14brlcadannnnd, I lie.. looks like it only hooks into the tk text widget
00:33.18brlcadthat sucks
00:33.33brlcadyet another reason to try and hook in editline support
01:54.19PrezKennedyhey brlcad!!
04:42.44brlcadhowdy Prez
04:58.55yukonbobtoday is the day of delayed responses
05:14.37louipcindeed
05:17.54yukonbobMaoZheDong:  :)
05:19.28MaoZheDongI spelled it wrong
05:19.45starseekerArrrrrrrrrrgh SCO may go private
05:22.07MaoZedongwhat does that mean?
05:22.15MaoZedongi mean what are the implications
05:22.28starseekerIt may mean SCO's lawsuits about IP in Linux can keep going
05:23.21MaoZedongah
05:23.42MaoZedongno shareholders to worry about bad rep eh?
05:23.48starseekerExactly
05:24.17starseekerNot to mention they have much less that they need to report to the public, that way
05:26.04starseekerThink of all the productive work that could have been paid for with the $$ spent on this lawsuit...
05:30.26MaoZedongi know
05:30.44MaoZedongI recently had an unsettling run-in with a lawyer
05:30.53MaoZedongman it gets your blood boiling
05:31.14starseekerick
06:28.11yukonbobthe info presented about the Carlyle Group is pretty freaky
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13:48.54brlcadyukonbob: heh, indeed
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17:22.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03tossup * r30314 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/samples/GetRegionMap.java: Minor additions: print command line params, notify when top component isn't present
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14:39.43``Eriknew laptop screen cleaner... http://cache.valleywag.com/assets/resources/screenclean.swf
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15:59.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30315 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/if.c: the backout() callbacks are no longer needed/used since there isn't custom "reshooting" going on. we just backup the original ray origin now.
16:10.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30316 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/ (bsphere.c command.c): initialize negative so we can do some sanity checking, re-add the DEBUG_BACKOUT code
16:12.45Axman6brlcad: everything moved to subversion now?
16:14.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30317 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/ (bsphere.c nirt.h): reduce the style inconsistency insanity via s/ -> /->/g
16:17.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30318 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/ (conversion.c dist_def.c if.c nirt.h read_mat.c): use vmath's DEG2RAD instead of the weak decl it was using
16:23.35brlcadAxman6: a couple weeks ago
16:24.11brlcadrather several weeks ago, http://my.brlcad.org/wiki/Cvs2svn
16:24.53Axman6i just remember it was taking a while, wasn't sure just how long it was going to take :)
16:27.24brlcadit took about a week on and off, about a half-dozen tries
16:28.01brlcadnothing hard, just each try just took several hours of processing and there was a lot of validation I was sorting through to check that everything came across perfectly
16:32.55Axman6didn't it fill a disk at some point too?
16:36.16brlcadheh, yeah -- the very first run
16:37.04brlcadI made a lot more room for it to work for the subsequent runs, and upgraded to a newer cvs2svn that ran faster
16:38.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30319 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
16:38.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: Erik made nirt's -b backout option use the model's bounding sphere as the
16:38.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: backout distance instead of the hard-coded 1000 define and also made it use a
16:38.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: much simpler backout method by just backing up the original ray being fired by
16:38.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: the model's bounding sphere size. vaguely recall there being a request
16:38.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: regarding nirt's backout behavior, but don't see any hint of it. think it might
16:38.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: have been a verbal request/inquiry.
17:59.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30320 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS TODO):
17:59.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: per recent commits, Bob indicated that he fixed or at least hack-patched several
17:59.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: of the mged I/O bugs where gets in tcl mged wasn't working from stdin as well as
17:59.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: stdout/stderr going to the command window instead of to the console.
18:01.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30321 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/ (command.c interact.c): more s/ -> /->/g on files that weren't saved before the commit
19:12.33yukonbobhttp://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/exhibition/scc5/final.html
19:12.58yukonbob^--- POVRay Short Code Contest (#5)
19:17.05brlcadyeah, I was looking at those a few hours ago :)
19:19.30brlcadI like bourke's actual entries (which didn't place)
19:26.55yukonbobhrmm... we need a brlcad contest like this... get the modellers out, create something exciting for the new website, and increase exposure...
19:29.36yukonbobbrlcad: how does one get in touch w/ the BRL-CAD community -- is there a mailing list I'm not subscribed to? There's got to me more people than the folks who hang out here...
19:34.35louipcthe mailing lists are very quiet
19:36.15yukonbobit'd be cool to have a showcase where some of the savvy modellers from ARL + SERVICE participate, as well as non-professional (or at least out of that circle), and collect the displays and code for an exposition
19:36.40louipcyep
19:36.53yukonboblouipc: do you model?
19:37.14louipcnot really
19:37.36louipcI have a tough time figuring out how to do it in brlcad
19:37.49yukonboblouipc: do you do 3d work in other software?
19:38.07louipcI've used solidworks
19:38.16louipcand some various 3D art programs
19:39.06louipchmm yeah I should put more effort into learning actual brlcad usage
19:50.08brlcadyukonbob: there are several hundred people subscribed to the mailing lists
19:50.26brlcadthe biggest audience, though, hits the website .. thousands per day
19:54.16brlcadlearning what can be done in brl-cad and how folks presently do model with it ..
19:54.47brlcad.. very useful steps for knowing the best ways to improve brl-cad (both on the macro and micro level)
19:55.02yukonbobhrmm... /me thinks that a contest (entries to be submitted by 17Mar (ie: Monday morning)) would be cool -- first one could be 'open' and then perhaps subsequents could be themed (ie: This month, the theme is "habitat")
19:55.44yukonbobin the time until then, do you think it'd be possible to get a pannel of experts to judge submissions?
19:56.02brlcadyeah, getting judges would be easy
19:56.38yukonbobof course, they would be barred from entering a (judged) submission...
19:57.06brlcadI'm actually be more inclined to hold contests that improve the tools first
19:57.24brlcadi've been thinking about holding a bug-fix contest, for example
19:57.25louipcthere needs to be more documentation or help
19:57.55yukonboblouipc: that's the kind of thing that would be shaken out during the course of competitions, though...
19:58.12louipcoh yeah?
19:58.13yukonbobbrlcad: that's cool, too...
19:58.33louipchow about a documentation contest :P
19:58.37brlcadit'd have to be in isolated contest so that the contest docs are short and sweet
19:58.53brlcadmaking procedural geometry database generators is usually a great/easy introduction
19:58.59louipcfor instance if I type 'help p' in mged it doesn't tell me anything
19:59.00brlcadand results in a useful "plugin" tool
19:59.04yukonboblouipc: sure -- you'd get lots of mail/irc saying "I can't figure out how to do [x]", and then it's identified as a potential weakness to the community/deves
19:59.05louipcanything useful anyways
19:59.07yukonbob*devs
19:59.37louipcso I really can't figure out how to use this app, nevermind the gui
20:00.21brlcadyep, understandably -- mged was never designed to be self-teaching or discoverable
20:00.26brlcadthings many people take for granted
20:00.40louipchow do people learn to use it then?
20:01.00brlcadgoing through the documentation, the tutorials and exercises
20:01.34yukonboblouipc: like the king said "Start at the beginning, continue till the end, then stop."
20:01.45brlcadthere's also commercial training offered that most at ARL go through
20:01.57yukonbobbrlcad: via SURVICE?
20:02.09brlcadbut you can get a huge portion of the basics just from going through existing documentation
20:02.15brlcadyukonbob: yeah
20:02.46brlcadthey're holding a class in a couple weeks for that matter
20:03.10yukonbobbrlcad: they must have access to awesome modellers (ie: people who model)
20:03.12louipcyukonbob: you mean those pdfs?
20:03.20brlcadexpensive for common Joe, but pretty standard rate for business
20:03.34brlcadlouipc: yes, the pdfs
20:03.45yukonboblouipc: yup -- I've got the mged cheat sheet on my desk, for example...
20:04.03brlcadbut contrary to some docs, instead of skimming through and seeing what's possible, actually reading them cover to cover and doing the exercises .. there's just too much to cover
20:04.52brlcadfrom a complexity standpoint, mged's not really any different than solidworks, unigraphics, pro/e, etc .. takes about the same level of direct effort to become proficient
20:05.53brlcadthe main difference is that most of those tools have better in-tool facilities (i.e. a better UI) for learning as you go along, some even embedding tutorials (but then they also have dozens of devs that help make that happen!)
20:06.00yukonbobbrlcad: why does survice talk so much about being a "woman-owned" company -- and does that mean a single woman owns it, or a group of women?
20:06.19brlcadthat's a gov't thing
20:06.19louipcyeah I did the mged intro one... actually that pdf has all the reference info at the end
20:06.31brlcadbeing a minority owned or woman owned company is a big deal
20:06.56yukonbobahh
20:06.56brlcadgov't has initiatives specifically tailored towards those types of companies, to encourage them
20:07.04louipcwoman owned haha
20:07.19brlcadsurvice engineering is owned by a woman
20:07.39louipcbut it doesn't have any specific mission regarding women does it?
20:07.40brlcadher husband actually runs the company, though.. :)
20:08.00yukonbobheh -- sounds like a shell game
20:08.06brlcadno, has absolutely nothing at all to do with what the company *does*
20:08.26brlcadjust a metric for contracting and purchasing rules
20:08.49yukonbobbrlcad: you know lots (any) people at survice?
20:10.16brlcade.g. if you want to buy a new printer, for example -- that goes out as a contract where basically the gov't solitics bids from companies -- there are federal mandates that say the gov't has to conduct N% of their annual business with minority/women owned companies so generally given offers from companies A, B, and C, if one of those is a minority they will get priority
20:10.22brlcadeven if they're not the lowest bid
20:10.57brlcadyukonbob: a fair bit, yes
20:11.38yukonbobbrlcad: is BRL-CAD a big part of what they do, a small part, or just "a part"?
20:11.38brlcadoh and to answer the earlier bit, the course is taught by one of the expert modelers, he's .. very .. good.
20:11.59brlcadsomewhere between a part and a small part on the whole
20:12.16yukonbobdo they contribute code/ideas back to BRL-CAD?
20:12.25brlcadyep
20:12.45brlcadideas and feature requests all the time
20:12.56brlcadarcher was entirely a contribution from them
20:13.43brlcadI still won't be happy until the UI is revamped ;)
20:13.51brlcadit's very powerful as is, but it needs a new UI
20:14.49brlcadthe trick is how to make a new UI that leverages the power and tools that are already there, without rewriting things
20:15.45brlcad.. and doing something fun and promising enough to attract other/new developers
20:16.15louipcis there a way to see a log of the commands issued via the gui?
20:18.12brlcadthere is command history via the cursor keys as well as the 'history' and 'journal' commands
20:18.27brlcadon the mged quick ref sheet under the "Getting Help" section
20:30.36louipchmm doesn't write to file until you toggle off
20:40.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30322 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/header.sh: leave authorship to the revision control system and AUTHORS file
20:52.50yukonbobheh -- /me recalls "poisonous" ---^
20:55.58brlcad;)
20:56.50brlcadsomething I've been meaning to do for a long time really, before the video, but it did give a reminder
20:57.46brlcadi'm not entirely convinced of the particular reasoning IFF the authorship is complete and well-defined for what gives someone the right to add their name
20:58.10brlcadproblem is that it's rarely ever complete, and particularly for brl-cad it's out of sync with the contributors
20:58.22brlcadthe author listed is generally just the person that started the file
21:01.20yukonbobbut I do appreciated the "barrier to entry" argument supplied in the PPeople vid -- it may be intimidating, and then (like you say) unless the prerequisites are well defined, when does another person add his/her name, etc, etc. -- keeping names out of files _does_ simplify things immediately.
21:26.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03louipc * r30323 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/archlinux/PKGBUILD.in: dependency and configure tweaks
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080217

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080217

01:17.26starseekerInteresting - this povray image is done with CSG operations:  http://hof.povray.org/Villarceau_Circles-CSG.html
01:35.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30324 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/Makefile.am src/libbu/endian.c): (log message trimmed)
01:35.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: initial implementation of run-time byte order detection via bu_byteorder() that
01:35.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: returns the current endian type. type endian type is one of BU_BIG_ENDIAN
01:35.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: BU_LITTLE_ENDIAN and BU_PDP_ENDIAN for now, and uses a simple union test for
01:35.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: finding the ordering. profiling showed that it was actually faster to compute
01:35.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: than to lookup from a static iff the first test is the right one (which makes
01:35.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: sense, avoids a load/read). we need *run-time* detection in order for Universal
01:38.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30325 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/g-var.c: use the new bu_byteorder() instead of WORDS_BIGENDIAN
01:40.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30326 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): add new endian.c file to the windows build
01:42.32brlcadand only using torii
01:42.50starseeker:-)
01:43.06brlcadthat would be a cool procedural generator
01:43.52starseekerbbl, dinner
01:55.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30327 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/endian.c: oop, save before commit. comment that stashing a static was tested.
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04:23.47starseekerHumph - g_qa's output doesn't pipe to a text file easily...
04:25.10louipchmm yeah I can't see how it uses only tori
05:52.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30328 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
05:52.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: eww, vfont handling is replicated in lgt and fbed. clean things up a bit by at
05:52.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: least making them the same. probably need to 'restore' vfont back into the src
05:52.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: hierarchy now that it's clear that there are actually sources that belong to it.
05:53.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30329 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/ply-g.c: use bu_byteorder() instead of manually guessing the endian
05:53.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30330 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/stl-g.c: header cleanup
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13:01.24magesingHi everone, I'm trying to follow the tutorials in MGED volume II, I'm on the goblet tutorial now. When I try to use the primitive editor to create ball2.s, I get the errors I have pasted at http://rafb.net/p/DtzFW346.txt . Is there something wrong with my brl-cad instalation? I am using mged 7.10.4 under Mac OS X version 10.5.1 Thanks.
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17:13.41CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30331 10/brlcad/trunk/src/lgt/getfont.c: don't need assert.h
17:15.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30332 10/brlcad/trunk/src/fbed/fbed.c: ws and style consistency
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18:55.09yukonbob:P -- no problem here... /me reviews error msgs closer
18:55.32yukonboboh -- magesing is gone, anyway :)
19:09.18brlcadyeah, I couldn't reproduce it
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19:21.09yukonbobhey brlcad :)
19:22.39yukonbobpost a (?weekly) image with a concept of some level of difficulty, and get people to either describe how to do it, or submit code as proofs of concept.
20:02.18brlcadyukonbob: yeah, that could be fun .. someone would have to be dedicated to "running" it .. ;)
20:05.01yukonbobwe'd need access to interesting pics and their methods...
20:06.35yukonbobMinuteElectron: how tricky to setup a section like the Poll, with an img, description, and an email account for submissions?
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20:34.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30333 10/brlcad/trunk/ (12 files in 6 dirs): move vfont back into the source tree so that code duplicated in fbed and lgt can be refactored into a library interface. this just moves the files into place and keeps things working.
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21:09.23MinuteElectronyukonbob: erm, could you explain further
21:38.56yukonbobMinuteElectron: what I'm thinking of is a periodic feature (like the poll). It would be an image, and a description/question. People would look at the image, follow the instructions/question (ie: how would you render this picture with the fewest primitives?), and then mail their submissions in for review.
21:39.50yukonbobI say like the poll, but in fact, that poll has only had one question, I believe... what I'm talking about would be cycled monthly or weekly or so.
21:53.19MinuteElectronyes
21:53.22MinuteElectronthat would be possible
21:53.52MinuteElectronyou'd have to ask brlcad about an e-mail account, but i'll code something up for you if we're definitely going to have it
21:54.26MinuteElectronor,
21:54.45MinuteElectronif you want to just change it manually i can set up a block and you just change that yourself once a month
21:55.24MinuteElectroni could have the code bit set up in a few minutes
21:55.55MinuteElectroni mean not the code nbit
21:55.57MinuteElectronthe block
21:56.35MinuteElectronyukonbob: would you be happy to run that?
21:58.01MinuteElectronAlso, this reminds me, I have to find a permanent fix for the IE problem.
21:58.13MinuteElectronAnd I need to fix up this LDAP thing asap.
22:00.50MinuteElectronThey are the last two major things IIRC.
22:01.46brlcadyeah, I was working on ldap yesterday, but still didn't figure out why drupal isn't responding to it yet
22:02.45brlcadMinuteElectron: did you happen to get the header working in IE6, last I looked that was the only 'major' IE6 problem remaining (or is that what you were referring to?)
22:02.51yukonbobMinuteElectron: let me explore this a bit more, and I'll get back to you -- good to hear that you have ideas for how to do it -- so consider this a "bug in your ear" and I'll touch bases w/ you again
22:06.51MinuteElectronsure thing
22:06.58MinuteElectronbrlcad: The header, I thought that was fixed.
22:07.06MinuteElectronI was refering to the block corners.
22:07.42brlcadyeah, you did fix the corners :)
22:07.48MinuteElectronThey are all out of align, I "fixed" them - but when you change the blocks it screws up again.
22:07.49brlcadthey are all right now iirc
22:08.04MinuteElectronSo they are alright when logged out, but fail when lgoged in.
22:08.17brlcadbut now the menu 'contents' actually don't render (and just the menu iirc)
22:08.23brlcadit's just a green box
22:08.26MinuteElectronoh
22:08.28MinuteElectronsigh
22:08.38brlcadthe links are still there, you can click on them and it goes to the section
22:09.06MinuteElectronOn the wiki?
22:09.07brlcadand I think for a millisecond they actually render black before green overwrites
22:09.28brlcadon all the pages, the menu at the top of the header
22:09.29MinuteElectronI can't find the bit you're refering too.
22:09.47MinuteElectronIt works fine in my internet explorer 6, are you at an IE 6 computer?
22:09.50brlcadwhere it has a half-box attached to the top of the display, handing down on the right
22:09.55brlcadyeah, IE6
22:10.16brlcadi'm not on an IE6 box right now or I'd get a screenshot
22:10.37MinuteElectronhmm, it works fine on my computer
22:11.05MinuteElectronnext time you are at an ie 6 computer it would be great for you to check it \ screenshot it
22:11.09MinuteElectronthough
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22:15.01MinuteElectronhmm
22:16.07MinuteElectronoh dear
22:18.15MinuteElectronTomorrow afternoon though - I'll get this sorted.
22:20.15brlcadhaving someone try the menu right now
22:20.25MinuteElectronthanks
22:22.14MinuteElectronindeed
22:22.33MinuteElectronSorry I keep putting it of.
22:22.35brlcadscreenshotting, they get it to
22:23.15brlcadfor me, it's just in a bin with XX other hot-priorities.. I need to stop context switching so much and focus on completing a task before moving to the next fire :)
22:23.39MinuteElectronWe all suffer from that really.
22:24.11brlcadhere we go, thx to blast007
22:24.12brlcadhttp://fu.sh.nu:82/brlcad.png
22:24.16brlcadthat's what I was seeing to
22:24.20brlcadotherwise looks *perfect*
22:24.36MinuteElectronhmm
22:24.38MinuteElectronhow odd
22:24.56MinuteElectronIt's not a text size problem, so must be something else.
22:26.02MinuteElectronCurious, do you know what font is being used?
22:26.12MinuteElectronoh, right
22:26.16MinuteElectronits our defualt
22:26.17MinuteElectronhmm
22:28.05brlcadseems like it's either a layering issue or it's picking up the background color as the font color
22:29.10MinuteElectronpossibly
22:31.29MinuteElectronBut it's weird how it doesn't happen on my computer. I'll load up my laptop and see what happens there.
22:34.49brlcadthey can copy-paste the text, but it doesn't hilight when they select it
22:35.27brlcadnot sure that's really helpful, still could be css or a missing close tag for that matter, but then it'd probably not validate
22:38.21alex_joniMinuteElectron: mind if I report something?
22:38.53MinuteElectronbrlcad: sure
22:39.52MinuteElectronbrlcad: I don't get a problem on either my laptop or my desktop. If blast007 isn't too busy can you get him to clear his cache for that page (Ctrl+F5) and\or take a note of the exact version.
22:39.56MinuteElectronalex_joni: sure
22:39.58MinuteElectronsorry
22:40.00MinuteElectronw/a
22:40.08alex_joninp..
22:40.18brlcadMinuteElectron: that was the first time he'd ever visited the site
22:40.29MinuteElectronheh
22:40.29MinuteElectronok
22:40.48MinuteElectronIn that case can you ask him to get the exact version of IE?
22:40.51alex_joniMinuteElectron: WinXP+Opera 9.24, I see a strange thing on the Community page
22:41.00MinuteElectronloading
22:41.13alex_joniI see the poll on the right, but it seems like the bottom part is cut-off, no submit button for the poll
22:41.23alex_joni(might be on purpose though?)
22:41.36MinuteElectronnope :P
22:41.41MinuteElectronWill add that to my list.
22:41.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30334 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (lgt/char.c lgt/ir.c lgt/lgt.h vfont/getfont.c): modify get_Font() to be get_font() and to take a logging callback (so we can pass it fb_log for fbed)
22:41.59MinuteElectronI think I know why though, so it won't be too hard to fix.
22:42.21alex_joniMinuteElectron: same for all pages
22:42.30alex_jonithe bottom div seems to jump pretty high up
22:43.03MinuteElectronYeah, for some reason the min-height and bottom alignment doesn't work in Opera.
22:43.05alex_joni(if there's enough content it's not visible.. but on empty pages like Community it's quite visible)
22:43.29MinuteElectronyeah
22:47.19brlcadMinuteElectron: his version is 6.0.2900.2180.xpsp_sp2_gdr.070227-2254
22:47.24MinuteElectronthanks
22:48.03MinuteElectronThat's the same as mine, so not a version specific bug.
22:48.33MinuteElectronOk, everything logged and recorded. I'll deal with them tomorrow afternoon, but now have to go to bed. Goodnight.
22:48.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30335 10/brlcad/trunk/src/fbed/ (15 files): convert fbed over to the new libvfont_nil
22:48.57brlcadcya
22:49.04alex_jonicia :)
22:56.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30336 10/brlcad/trunk/src/vfont/getfont.c: cleanup, use bu_brlcad_data to find the installed font resource files
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080218

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080218

05:57.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30337 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): make the format specifier const for bu_log, bu_flog, bu_vls_printf, bu_vls_sprintf
06:44.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30338 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (11 files in 3 dirs):
06:44.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: make get_font() return a struct vfont structure containing the data that was
06:44.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: previously in globals. it's small enough that a struct copy should be fine,
06:44.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: caller managers their own data instead of it coming from the library.
07:27.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30339 10/brlcad/trunk/src/fbed/ (7 files): quell all extra compilation warnings
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08:23.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30340 10/brlcad/trunk/src/lgt/ (18 files): quell all extra compilation warnings save for assert()
08:25.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30341 10/brlcad/trunk/src/vfont/ (font.h getfont.c): quell warnings, name callback vfont_log() to avoid shadowing the log() math func
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08:28.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30342 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs): rename font.h back to its original vfont.h name just to be consistent with it being an interface (albeit still considered 'private', hence not in include/)
08:35.33CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30343 10/brlcad/trunk/src/vfont/ (Makefile.am vfont.h): get rid of the WORDS_BIGENDIAN use in favor of bu_byteorder() run-time detection
08:52.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30344 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/html/ (ReleaseNotes/email4.4.html manuals/Install.html): obliterate some more phone numbers, even in older historic docs just in case
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16:21.11MinuteElectronGUESS WHAT GUYZ!
16:21.21MinuteElectronIt's tomorrow afternoon, already! :D :D :D
16:25.54brlcadheh
16:47.27clock_brlcad: I want to write a program where you enter vortices and it creates a polygonal plate like what you should paste into arbn
16:47.33clock_Doesn't it accidentally exist?
16:47.37clock_To prevent double work?
17:05.53brlcadclock_: yes, if I understand you correctly there is .. gimme a min and I'll whip up an example
17:06.37brlcadthere's an experimental reverse modeling interface that lets you provide a connected loop of points and a depth and it creates a plate
17:06.43brlcadplanar-only
17:07.44clock_that's what I want
17:08.15clock_Because I designed an end-plate welded to a rolled U50 channel with  ahole triangle and the shape is complicated
17:09.01clock_I am sure the first garage-made space shuttle will be drawn in BRL-CAD :)
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17:49.19MinuteElectronOk, as far as I can tell the IE6 corners bug is fixed for the first and second side block, but continues to happen seamingly randomly on the thirs.
17:49.22MinuteElectron*third
17:52.38MinuteElectronAnd at the moment when logged out it goes away when you refresh the page.
17:52.51MinuteElectronor that could just be my cache
17:52.58MinuteElectronregardless it is now gone when you're logged out
17:55.37MinuteElectronNow working on every page when logged in, except the main page.
17:55.41brlcadthe css isn't any different for logged in/out, so something with the content itself is provoking the style to change..
17:56.21MinuteElectronThere is a different number of boxes when logged in or out. When logged out there are 2, when in there are 3.
17:56.49MinuteElectronSo whatever the problem is has to be compencated for the third box as well when logged in afaict
17:57.13brlcadmaybe the contents of one of the boxes
17:57.29MinuteElectronperhpas
17:57.45brlcade.g. on the main page, the main box defined as part of the contet iirc
17:58.23MinuteElectronyes
17:58.39brlcadahh, clock left
17:58.58MinuteElectronok, corners are now fixed
17:59.38brlcadsweet!
17:59.40brlcadso what was the problem?
18:00.00MinuteElectronI had some old CSS code for IE6 only in the page.tpl.php file.
18:00.12MinuteElectronIt used some uneeded conditionals so i just removed it and it was fixed.
18:01.17brlcadheh
18:01.24brlcadawesome
18:01.27MinuteElectronThis is why inline CSS is evil.
18:01.40brlcadwonder if that fixes the menu too
18:01.42MinuteElectronindeed, now on to the opera bug
18:01.54MinuteElectronpossibly, i don't think so though
18:15.12MinuteElectronhell yes, opera 9.2 bug fixed
18:16.16MinuteElectronThat just leaves LDAP, Drupal heavy Load response, and the mysterious IE bug I can't replicate.
18:17.53MinuteElectronbrlcad: When yuo get a moment can you explain to me what Drupal heavy load response is - I still haven't worked it out.
18:22.01brlcadthe heavy load response is what the site does if it's hit with a lot of users all at once
18:22.36brlcade.g. a slashdotting
18:23.13brlcadso to survive the high load, the site disables portions of the site (like polling)
18:23.33brlcadI tweaked a lot of the settings already, so that one may be taken care of
18:30.12MinuteElectronok
18:31.31MinuteElectronThat just leaves LDAP and the IE6 bug.
18:34.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30345 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: paul randal with one ell?
18:51.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30346 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: his first name was apparently cormac, he just went my corey
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22:45.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30347 10/brlcad/trunk/ (676 files in 44 dirs): (log message trimmed)
22:45.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: categoric removal of the source, author, and function list sections in files,
22:45.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: particularly the source file header sections. those are all sections of data
22:45.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: that are more often incomplete or out-of-date than they are correct and are a
22:45.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: maintenance burden that has no direct benefit. the 'source' section (i.e. the
22:45.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: address) is mostly irrelevant with the open sourcing. the authorship is better
22:45.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: comprehensively preserved through the SCM revision control system, and was the
23:09.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30348 10/brlcad/trunk/src/remrt/rtsrv.c: match bu_log's new const goodness
23:31.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30349 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/footer.sh: weird.. don't use single-line comments for headers, use comment blocks like we do for .c files
23:32.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30350 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (15 files in 9 dirs): remove some remaining references to RCS vars
23:35.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30351 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (burst/HmGetc.c burst/HmGlob.c lgt/ir.c): de-LINT
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080219

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080219

01:30.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30352 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (155 files in 31 dirs):
01:30.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: start unraveling the horrible whitesmith-pico indentation style that put
01:30.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: statements on the same line as open parens (and still indenting the paren). put
01:30.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: the statement on the next line. also caught a few that just had comments
01:30.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: following the open paren, but move them down a line too. applying auto-style
01:30.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: formatting should clean up their indentation later. one step closer towards
01:30.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: global consistency..
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01:57.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30353 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: add more details about the indentation/whitespace style as being BSD KNR and/or K&R style with 4-char indents.
01:59.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30354 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libtexture/texture_perlin.h: stragglers not saved
01:59.58CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30355 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/comb.c: stragglers not saved
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09:20.41CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r30356 10/brlcad/trunk/include/config_win.h: some C++ libraries (e.g. STL) need the inline specifier
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13:23.05brlcadd_rossberg: does it work for you without the #define inline?
13:23.11brlcadit really shouldn't be needed
13:31.13brlcadi'm not convinced bob really investigated why it wasn't working for him ..
13:45.27d_rossbergbrlcad: an inline statement in the C code is deathly for MSVC 6.0, therefore i put the define in the else branch of ifdef __cplusplus
13:45.53d_rossberg(inline is C99)
14:01.15brlcadah, except in bob's case he's testing with VS2005 :)
14:01.32brlcadokay, well good enough I suppose
14:05.44d_rossbergi think bob had the same problem, that's why he wrote the define, but it looks like Bob hasn't tested it on g_brep.cpp and opennurbs_ext.cpp, or his linker is much more generously then mine
14:09.33brlcador he's not even compiling those files yet
14:10.53brlcadyeah, looks like he's left it off the compilation
14:18.04d_rossbergi wonder if VS2008 knows about C99 -- i'll learn of it this year :-|
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14:24.09elfantastico191hi
14:24.52elfantastico191anyone familiar with solidworks ?
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14:25.50elfantastico191?
14:25.59brlcadelfantastico191: this isn't a solidworks support channel, sorry
14:26.18brlcadif you have a brl-cad question, I'd be glad to try to help you
14:27.08elfantastico191ty man
14:27.17brlcadd_rossberg: that's what's odd about vs2005, it is compliant .. I use inline with it on other projects just fine so I'm thinking it's a setting issue or something else (in bob's case)
14:27.23brlcadelfantastico191: np
14:27.53elfantastico191do u happen btw to know any solidworks channels anywhere i may adress to ?
14:28.10brlcadnope
14:28.13elfantastico191ok
14:28.14brlcadtis a commercial product
14:28.17brlcadyou paid for support
14:28.31brlcadwhich is done through their forums and phone
14:28.55elfantastico191nah i am to far away and their forum doesnt support this simple question
14:29.05clock_lol
14:29.10elfantastico191:)
14:29.12brlcadpay me what you pay them, and I might think about answering solidworks questions, but I'd still probably just use it as beer money ;)
14:29.19brlcadoh, hey clock_
14:29.26clock_elfantastico191: pay an upgrade support package to be able to ask even simple questions ;-)
14:29.32alex_jonibrlcad: that much beer is dangerous
14:29.37clock_brlcad: hey
14:29.49clock_brlcad: do you have that polygon program?
14:29.51brlcadi had that example done after you disappeared
14:29.55brlcadyeah
14:30.17brlcadi'll caveat this that you're going to be using something very much experimental...
14:30.20elfantastico191ok men nice coming here for a visit
14:30.32elfantastico191gbye
14:30.39brlcadonly been used once for that matter, but it does work for very straightforward inputs
14:30.42brlcadelfantastico191: cya
14:31.23brlcadbasically, there's an input processor that presently is just hooked into mged as a command that reads an input file
14:31.30brlcadthe input file is a simple text file of sample points
14:31.51clock_sample points means vertices?
14:31.57brlcadthe format is that of a vulcan scanning system point sampler
14:31.59brlcadyeah
14:32.16clock_what is a vulcan scanning system point sampler?
14:32.18brlcadthe vulcan just gives you points in three-space
14:32.35clock_vulcan is a name of software?
14:32.38brlcadyou click a point, click a point, click a point .. using a wand and it records those points
14:32.44brlcadit's a piece of metrology hardware
14:32.57clock_metrology hardware? wtf?
14:33.01clock_what is metrology?
14:33.10clock_Some institute that deals with kilograms and meters?
14:33.29brlcadlike surveying equipment
14:33.34clock_oh yeah
14:33.38clock_like photogrammetry?
14:33.46brlcadnot really
14:34.16brlcadlemme see if I can find a pic
14:34.58archivistalso known as a coordinate measuring machine cmm
14:35.09clock_is "vulcan" a name of the system or is it a system for scanning shapes or volcanoes?
14:35.59brlcadyeah, name of the system
14:36.02brlcadhere we go
14:36.14brlcadit was developed with the X-Station Vulcan advanced surveying system
14:36.25brlcadwhich is sort of like: http://www.indoorgps.com/Configurations/Portable.aspx
14:36.55brlcadmore like the guy in the small top right picture with a big wand
14:37.06brlcadyou click points, it acquires them and writes them to a simple text file
14:37.51brlcadthere's a command in mged (parse_points) that reads that file and creates geometry based on labels that would have been tagged by the vulcan scanner, but can just as easily be cobbled together by hand
14:38.13brlcadhere being an example: http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/tmp/plate.txt
14:38.32brlcadso you can run: parse_points plate.txt
14:39.07brlcadand it should blather a bunch of junk, maybe even say it failed (this is like pre-alpha code *ahem*) .. but then actually create an extrude0 that is that plate
14:39.36brlcadthe pattern for PLATE objects are simple .. it's a loop of planar points followed by a depth in triplicate
14:40.01brlcadthere's a hard-coded tolerance of like 1.5 right now, so you have to scale your units if you're working with something small
14:42.45archivistadd some probing to new toy and I might have one :)
14:43.35brlcadclock_: there are other object types it'll recognize too if you need other shapes, but none of it's documented so I'd just have to say what's what
14:46.08clock_brlcad: there are 5 columns. Is it like point number, X, Y, Z? What is the PLATE?
14:46.18brlcadsupported shapes are PLATE, ARB, SYMMETRY, POINTS, CYLINDER, CYL, PIPE, and SPHERE
14:46.32brlcadyeah, first is just an identifier that is pretty much ignored but needs to be there
14:46.55brlcadthen x,y,z coords, then a text label that tells the parser what type of point it is
14:47.41brlcadseries are objects are identified by the sampling convention, three samples terminates the object for example
14:47.52brlcadwhich is why the last point is listed thrice
14:48.17clock_I wanted something a bit different
14:48.28brlcadoh?
14:48.30clock_Give a loop of X,Y pairs and one number-thickness
14:48.41brlcadthat's basically that example
14:49.15brlcadthe Z is the thickness, 9.0
14:49.16clock_can the points be in any order?
14:49.22brlcadthe rest are x,y points
14:49.29brlcadin loop order
14:49.40brlcad0 connects to 1, 1 connects to 2, etc
14:49.46clock_So what's the meaning of the 4th columnt?
14:49.52clock_I don't understand it now
14:50.06brlcadthe fourth column is the Z coordinate
14:50.16clock_Z coordinate of what?
14:50.50brlcadof the plate thickness
14:51.17clock_How many lines will have a file for a rectangular plate have?
14:51.30brlcadfor your case, you really don't need to care -- just plug in your x,y values into cols' 2 and 3 with a Z of 0.0 then replicate your first point with a Z of your thickness
14:51.41clock_OK
14:51.49clock_replicate 3 times at the end?
14:51.52brlcadyes
14:51.56clock_That should work
14:52.00brlcadthat marks the end of that "object"
14:52.06brlcadso you can list multiple in one file
14:52.35clock_And when I have the file what I do next?
14:52.47clock_parse_points filename?
14:53.01brlcada rectangular plate would have a point A, B, C, D, depth, depth, depth .. so 7
14:53.15brlcadyes
14:53.28``Erik*yargn*
14:53.36clock_and it creates a primitive named after the last column?
14:53.55brlcadyou can sort of think of this as a vulcan-g converter, and you're just describing your data in the vulcan's format
14:54.15brlcadno, the primitive will be auto-named, it needs to say PLATE
14:54.27brlcadyou can rename it afterwards
14:54.42clock_Aha I see you said PLATE is some kind of a keyword
14:54.48brlcadexactly
14:55.43brlcadit was a simple label convention set up using that coordinate measuring machine, which is *very* limited inherintly .. it's just a bunch of sample points
14:56.31brlcadbut when you use it to acquire thousands of samples, it's a *really* effective way for modeling an entire object (e.g. a whole vehicle's exterior) in detail very quickly
14:58.20brlcadanyways, this can all be tailored if needed to .. enough effort went into the development just to get it working for a model that was being acquired, sort of proof-of-concept, so it could still use lots more lovin'
14:59.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30357 10/brlcad/trunk/src/Makefile.am: vfont must be build before fbed and lgt
14:59.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30358 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/Makefile.am: minor cleanup of the DEPENDS stuff
15:00.13CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30359 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (fbed/Makefile.am lgt/Makefile.am libbu/Makefile.am): dependancy fixes
15:01.00``Erikminute said something about needing a bug tracker, should we make a 'Webpage' category in the sf bug tracker?
15:05.12brlcadup to MinuteElectron .. want a tracker category?
15:05.27brlcadthe files need to get added to svn at some point too, so might be enough just to have a TODO file
15:05.46clock_brlcad: The new holder contains complicated shapes plasma-cut (or hacksaw-cut) from a steel plate which were designed in a 2D editor.
15:05.58clock_I can figure out exact point positions of the vertices in the 2D editor
15:06.01brlcadtracker isn't usually used for internal dev-reporting
15:06.14``Erikyeah
15:06.19brlcadclock_: great, then it should come across directly
15:06.23``Erik*shrug* might be worht having both, or direct issues with the web page to 'documentation'
15:06.38clock_brlcad: before I had to calculate normal vectors my head almost exploded
15:07.06``Erikum
15:07.06brlcadthe website directs website issues to a contact form
15:07.38brlcadhttp://my.brlcad.org/d/contact
15:07.56``Erikshould, uh, bz have an autologin vc?
15:08.38``Erik(the new one)
15:08.51clock_brlcad: CAD tools makes garage manufacture of complicated mechanics tremendously simpler
15:09.01clock_I mean free software CAD tools
15:09.05clock_proprietary don't
15:09.20clock_And a laser printer, of course
15:09.20brlcad``Erik: beats me, the only guys that can get to it will be isp support staff
15:10.07``ErikI was doing a system upgrade on it and came across this in the mergemaster pass
15:10.08``Erik-ttyv7  "/usr/libexec/getty autologin"          cons25  on  secure
15:10.08``Erik+ttyv7  "/usr/libexec/getty Pc"         cons25  on  secure
15:10.22clock_brlcad: with proprietary tool it would be like: Oh - my bike dynamo broke down. I see - I need a C shaped part here. Now I need to cough up $20,000 for a licence, draw it, print it, cut it out with a hacksaw, and replace
15:10.30clock_Really a bargain
15:10.50brlcad``Erik: not sure what that means, so whatever works for me :)
15:11.01``Erikwell
15:11.04clock_How much does that we-can't-even-support-our-customer Sold Works cost?
15:11.14``Erikalt+f8 gives a free root shell right now
15:11.22``Erikthe change mergemaster wants to put in would put a login prompt there
15:11.40archivistclock_,  $4000someone said the other day
15:11.41brlcadall of the commercials are 5-50k a seat for non-academic use
15:11.54clock_$4000 for a bike dynamo replacement. Really a discount.
15:12.07clock_replacement -> repait
15:12.10clock_repair
15:12.19brlcadthere's also the base system, and then *everything* is a plugin (and costs additional)
15:12.29``Erikheh
15:12.40``Erikwant to draw a wire? no problem, just buy the wire addon to pro/e for a mere $5k
15:12.40clock_lol
15:12.46``Erikper seat, per year
15:12.48brlcadso you want to run a wire, that's another 3k; want sketches, another 5k, etc
15:13.11clock_Want a 5mm hole and did only 4mm ones before? Buy a 5mm hole plugin for a wonderful discount price
15:13.51``Eriknot quite that bad, but "specialized" geometry is price per primitive more or less
15:14.00clock_ZOMG
15:14.24brlcadthe ability to render images, export to other CAD systems, evaluate geometry (volume/mass/materials/etc), and most advanced modeling concepts come as 'extra' features
15:14.52clock_I see BRL-CAD is packed with free extras
15:15.03``Erikthis tty line is concerning me... how did it get there, why is it there, should it go away, does it mean a compromise and a fresh install, ...
15:26.54brlcad``Erik: possibly just when it was initially set up by the staff it had that, and just didn't change it when you did the first upgrade?
15:27.53brlcadi'm not worried about people that can physically walk up to the console..
15:28.06brlcadnow if you can get to that from other means, then it might be a problem
15:29.20brlcadalso, are you talking about old or new?
15:29.55brlcadbecause current .bz has that line as well..
15:30.14brlcaddon't see any harm in setting it to Pc
15:36.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30360 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/header.sh: one line too many on wrapped headers
15:40.37``Erikheh
15:40.42``Erik<-- starts pondering lunch
15:41.48brlcaddude, you need to eat breakfast more
15:44.16``Erikheh, nah, I just like to plan early
15:44.39``Erikmore of a social thing than anything else, I have canned foods in my desk if I actually get hungry
16:25.44``Erikgot 5 for lunch, brlcad, interested?
16:32.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30361 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (40 files):
16:32.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: the start of applying a consistent style to the sources using the (emacs-based)
16:32.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: source formatting scripts. the inlined neatly aligned tabs are a real pain but
16:32.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: hopefully is a one-time shift/indent change (to 4-char indents, tab stops at 8).
16:32.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: still testing but looks like it's working well.
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16:33.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30362 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/batch-indent-region.el: force case-label lines to indent since that's not set with stroustrup or k&r. probably need to provide our own KNF c-style-alist settings, but good enough for now to deal with case indents.
16:34.33brlcad``Erik: where to?
16:34.38``Erikd'no yet
16:35.03starseek1r\/quit
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16:35.14``Erik\o/ he quit!
16:35.21brlcadheh
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16:37.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30363 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/indent.sh: ignore the m4 files. gets them pretty much totally wrong.
16:37.31starseek1rbrlcad:  How do I make irssi use all of a re-sized terminal?
16:37.56alex_joniwhat kind of terminal?
16:38.02``Erikirssi doesn't handle sigwinch? O.o
16:38.45alex_jonistarseek1r: use screen first :)
16:39.03``Erikor just use bx
16:39.06``Erik*cough* O:-)
16:40.06alex_jonistarseek1r: http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Irssi
16:40.11brlcadstarseek1r: ctrl-a F
16:40.31brlcadirssi just expands
16:40.36louipchmm it does it automatically for me
16:40.36brlcadscreen needs to be told to expand
16:40.58brlcadirssi does it auto too
16:42.15brlcadthere is some problem with logging into .bz though and later resizing the terminal, don't think it's set up for proper resizing after logging in (so set your terminal before logging in)
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16:42.49louipcscreen expands auto for me :D
16:42.49``Erikjapan house?
16:43.11brlcadaiight
16:43.23``Erikok, we're leaving now, we lost one so with you, it's 5
16:43.27``Erikseeya there :)
16:44.00brlcadok
16:44.02starseek1rbrlcad:  after lunch, I have a few dozen dumb questions about combination matrix editing and related issues, if you don't mind
16:44.17brlcadok
16:47.29starseek1rls
16:48.09brlcadls: Fatal I/O Error
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16:58.14starseek1rAh, that's better - Apparently I needed an xterm to have it work :-)
17:35.46*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130)
18:11.29``Erikheh
18:23.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30364 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/btclsh/btclsh.vcproj: Set the "Compile As" option to default.
18:27.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30365 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: Mods to accomodate a few apps on Windows that still have problems with inline.
18:28.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30366 10/brlcad/trunk/include/tclcad.h: Fix Tclcad_Init declaration.
18:32.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30367 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/generic/tclInt.h: Add more checks before defining inline.
18:34.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30368 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/blt/src/bltInt.h: Add more checks before defining inline.
18:35.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30369 10/brlcad/trunk/src/bwish/cadAppInit.c: Cad_AppInit returns an int.
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18:36.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30370 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/tclcad.c: Tclcad_Init returns an int.
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18:52.48``Erikoed told me you're a weirdo, so I guess it's mutual :)
18:53.18starseek1rheh - fair enough
18:53.51starseek1rBob showed me a command that will translate a combination, but even after reading the Appendix A in VolII it's not clicking.
18:57.57starseek1rbrlcad:  the volII appendix gives the syntax for the oed command as "oed path_lhs path_rhs", and on a test combination "oed / testcomb/test1.s" appears to be working
18:58.35starseek1rWhat I'm not following is the reason for the first "/" and why I need to specify a primiative when I'm operating on the combination as a whole
19:00.43starseek1rOr, more generally, I'm surprised the command "oed testcomb.c" didn't put me in the correct mode from the get-go
19:00.57starseek1rWhich suggest I'm missing something conceptually
19:02.03yukonbobstarseek1r: the lhs is where the transform is "rooted" or based from...
19:02.34yukonbob(in my mind)
19:04.18starseek1ryukonbob:  But isn't the transform with respect to the global grid itself?  The target combination has a "starting point" inherent to its definition(?) so where does another "root" come in?
19:05.19yukonbobstarseek1r: /me wil have to play to re-familiarize self, but I'm pretty sure it's how I came to understand it working, and thinking in that term has proved useful and correct so far...
19:05.23yukonbob1 sec.
19:10.00yukonbobstarseek1r: ok -- here's what I'm thinking... the lhs is the relative origin, and the rhs is the object itself.
19:10.44yukonbobso if you've got a building, you could move a light-fixture wrt the ceiling, the room, or the house, depending on the lhs.
19:11.21starseek1rBut I thought the keypoint served the "orientation" purpose?
19:11.48yukonbob"keypoint"?
19:14.35starseek1rIf in oed mode, type keypoint
19:16.04starseek1rIf I understand correctly, that point is the "rotate about this" point
19:16.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30371 10/brlcad/trunk/src/vfont/Makefile.am: need to be able to find tcl.h (for bu.h)
19:16.30louipccenter of rotation?
19:16.40starseek1rApparently
19:18.31starseek1rChanging keypoint also impacts translate
19:19.15starseek1rWhich is what I would expect, but that still leaves me wondering...
19:19.39louipcyeah makes sense
19:20.16louipcyou can't define a different centre for each of those operations?
19:20.18yukonbobheh -- /me can't get any oed to work :P --
19:21.11starseek1rlouipc:  You mean one center for rotate, another for translate?
19:21.16louipclike say I had a square and I wanted the top right corner of the square to fit exactly at the top right corner of a bigger square I'd use the top-right as the centre of translation
19:21.51louipclike you can dynamically select the centre for the operation
19:21.55yukonbobok
19:22.16louipcdepending on what's most convenient and logical
19:23.18starseek1rRight, but don't you do that by setting the keypoint?
19:23.52louipcnot necessarily
19:24.09yukonbobstarseek1r: have you swapped components back/forth between lhs and rhs and watched their effect?
19:24.43louipcI don't really know what the keypoint is though
19:25.51louipcis it defined in the object or the operation?
19:26.19yukonbobI'm looking at the docs for "permute" and it mentions keypoint as has been mentioned here... it sounds like the orgin about which rot would rotate, for example...
19:30.26starseek1rApparently, "/" is read as null by the oed command, since on the rhs it returns the error "rhs must not be null"
19:32.17louipcthis oed is some higher level thinking
19:32.53louipcor the docs are just badly written :P
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19:34.51starseek1rNow, I can see where you might want to translate a shape only within one combination...
19:35.00starseek1rhmm, hang on, let me make a test case...
19:38.21yukonbobrhs must end with a primitive.
19:40.11starseek1rRight, although I still don't quite see why
19:40.17louipcah I think I get it
19:40.32louipcit's like dragging you either from your ears or your toes
19:41.20louipcwhere are your ears gonna end up after I've dragged you 'over there'?
19:43.50starseek1rOK, I think I have a test case that demonstrates the usefulness of the lhs vs the rhs
19:44.23starseek1rlouipc:  You mean when you specify a destination it's for a control point on a shape?
19:46.47louipcerm the last primitive in the path is the reference shape :P
19:47.38louipcI'm just gleaning this from the VOLII heh I've never played with it
19:49.41starseek1rYeah, saw that - just not sure what it means...
19:50.54louipcyeah it's not so clear
19:52.03louipcoed edits everything right? scale, rotation, position...
20:02.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30372 10/brlcad/trunk/src/fbed/fbed.c: I believe we only need SIGCLD or SIGCHLD.
20:09.03``Erikbrlcad, wake up, got a reasonably warm issue
20:18.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30373 10/brlcad/trunk/ (55 files in 3 dirs): update libpng to 1.2.25 (coverity fixes)
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20:58.14yukonbobstarseek1r: post a link when you're finished writing ;)
21:01.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30374 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: Mods to accomodate the location change of vfont.
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22:40.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30375 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkimg/pngtcl/ (pngtclDecls.h pngtclStubInit.c): No longer using png_read_destroy and png_write_destroy.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080220

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080220

00:57.31brlcadlooks like you all got the jist of oed
00:58.48brlcadthe matrix is placed between the lhs and the rhs effectively modifying the object immediately to the right in the context of the object/path to the left
01:01.51brlcadthe reason/need for specifying all the way down to a primitive is in-part to utilize an existing coordinate reference as a control point, and in-part an implementation detail of the fact that combinations don't actually have coordinates
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01:17.42starseekerbrlcad:  I tried my hand at writing a tutorial in docbook
01:55.30louipcdid it break?
02:04.12starseekerapparently
02:05.36starseekerdocbook is not plug and play - everyone stores their dtd files and whatnot everywhere, and without pointing to the correct one and invoking the correct chicken sacrificial dance options you get errors...
02:06.02louipchah sounds messy
02:06.30starseekerWhen it works it's OK, but it's not NEARLY as plug and play as tetex/texlive
02:06.53starseekerNot that they're any less messy, but at least it's hidden from the users
02:25.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30376 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/ (16 files): update the indentation ws style of the shell scripts.
02:30.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30377 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/indent.sh: ignore sh/ dir scripts. it gets almost as many wrong as it gets right due to quirky scriptisms.
02:33.53brlcadit doesn't need to be robust, just have to set everything up once and in one place for the most part
02:36.00brlcadeither way, like I said before -- there are several other pragmatic reasons why docbook is the format of choice (and the reason many major projects have adopted it successfully) ..
02:37.34brlcadnever said it was easy to set the toolchain up, but having done it before several times in the past I can say that really isn't the hardest part (which is actually converting the docs in a useful manner and setting up xslt/dsssl styles)
02:39.09starseekerOh, I know  - I'm not arguing against docbook
02:39.19brlcadESR has a really nice writeup that goes into some of the reasons in a condensed form as well as just provides a decent tutorial
02:39.24starseekerI'm just annoyed at whoever is building the toolchain
02:39.33brlcadeven talks about it as it pertains to Tex
02:39.36brlcadhttp://tldp.org/HOWTO/html_single/DocBook-Demystification-HOWTO/
02:39.54brlcadyeah, the tools aren't robust yet, and the format keeps getting changed
02:40.13brlcadlike dealing with html 1 and 2 back in the days with the variety of (broken) browsers
02:40.57starseekerbrlcad:  Do you happen to have a working jadetex setup at the moment?
02:41.34brlcadthat's probably the crux of the problem
02:41.37brlcadforget dsssl
02:41.40starseekerI'd like to sent you my oed writeup to see if it looks useful, but I can't generate a pdf right now
02:41.43louipcxsl doesn't seem too tough
02:41.46brlcad(i.e. forget jade)
02:41.57brlcadyeah, xsl is probably a LOT easier to deal with
02:42.32brlcadas it avoids the whole sgml heritage in jade that lets you set up nearly arbitrary mappings/translations but makes things utterly complex in the process
02:43.51brlcadapt-get install xmlto
02:44.20brlcademerge xmlto
02:44.43louipcpacman -S xmlto
02:45.43brlcadprobably also want xsltproc and/or fop
02:46.55brlcad(xsltproc is in the libxslt package usually)
02:48.18louipccool
02:49.29louipcmaybe docbook-xsl, docbook-xml as well
02:50.26brlcadyeah, presumably premade xsl styles for html/pdf/etc and the various xml dtd's?
02:52.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30378 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/indent.sh: know what, just screw sh files. not worth it -- they don't generally matter.
02:53.02louipcyep
02:55.50brlcadjust installed both on .bz
03:00.17starseekerGrr - who on gentoo is managing the tex environment??
03:01.08brlcadinstalling a few more things
03:01.28brlcad(like tetex)
03:02.28starseekerSurprising - this isn't like gentoo
03:03.31brlcaddid you see how firebird did their toolchain?
03:04.02starseekerI haven't had a chance to dig into it yet - this oed thing was kinda a "spur of the moment" response to the problem at hand
03:04.21starseekershould have realized it would open the docbook can of worms
03:04.22brlcaddoes it make sense now?
03:05.23brlcadmostly because there are several things that need to be known for a matrix to be applied whether implicitly or explicitly, and oed approaches it from an existing data perspective that fits in with some of the other commands
03:05.36starseekerYes, I think so
03:05.50brlcad(arcs, btw, are paths .. that's a horrible inconsistency that can be confusing)
03:06.31starseekerIf I ever get this tutorial converted to a pdf you can take a look - it's basically me explaining it to myself and (hopefully) doing the same for others usefully
03:07.35starseekerWhere are you storing the dtd files?
03:08.23brlcadah ghod.. that's horrible .. it's trying to pull in X11
03:08.28brlcadthat ain't gonna fly
03:08.59brlcadmm.. dunno where it put them actually, probably somewhere under /usr/local/share
03:09.54brlcadyep, /usr/local/share/xml/docbook
03:10.24starseekerheh - rather different from my /usr/share/sgml/docbook/xml-dtd-4.4
03:11.07brlcadthere's a /usr/local/share/sgml/docbook too but that has the sgml variants (want to use the xml ones)
03:13.40starseekerhmm - /usr/local/share/xmlto/format/docbook/../fo/pdf: Can't open /usr/local/share/xmlto/format/docbook/../fo/pdf: No such file or directory
03:14.07starseekerdoes exist without the .. though
03:14.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30379 10/brlcad/trunk/bench/lgt.sh: ws indent style
03:15.35brlcadwhere are you getting .. from?
03:15.59starseekererror being spit out by xmlto
03:16.07starseekeron bz
03:16.16brlcadwhat's the command?
03:16.26starseekerxmlto pdf oed_doc.xml
03:16.47starseekerwait, I'm an idiot
03:16.50starseekerone sec...
03:17.08starseekerno, reproduced itself
03:19.02brlcadhm, well I can do the easy fix and just put fo/pdf where it's looking for it
03:19.26starseekerworks for me
03:20.09brlcadhm?
03:20.36starseekerer - whatever you want to do :-)
03:20.57starseekerGiven sufficient time I can probably straighten out my home box if you'd rather not clutter up bz
03:21.53brlcadit's not clutter, that's one of the primary functions of the box
03:22.02brlcad(cad-related stuff)
03:26.03brlcadaha!
03:26.12brlcadthe .. is coming from within the formatter
03:26.16brlcadthey're just scripts
03:31.06starseekerHmm - now it's recursively calling ../fo and ends up with a filename too long error with a lot of ../fo s in it
03:37.31brlcadyeah, that was my "fix"
03:37.33brlcadi found the problem
03:37.45brlcadstale build files .. it didn't install everything
03:38.18brlcaddunno if i had a previous xmlto version installed or something, but there is supposed to be a ../fo/ dir (and it's in their source tarball) .. reinstalling with a patch
03:40.26brlcadwoot
03:40.27brlcadhttp://my.brlcad.org/tmp/oed/
03:40.53brlcadmissing a tool for pdf
03:42.43starseekerWow that's ugly - I must have my markup messed up
03:43.25starseekerThanks brlcad for powering through it!
03:45.26starseekerDo I need a para for each command?  (ick)
03:48.06yukonbobstarseeker: or perhaps a complete blank link between?
03:49.02starseekerHmm - apparently the "literal" tag lies
03:50.42yukonbobprogramlisting may be useful too..
03:54.56brlcadstarseeker: it's not the tag -- that is the stylesheet
03:55.09brlcadyou're just getting a generic stylesheet from xmlto
03:55.33starseekerOh, ok
03:55.37brlcadbut yeah, there very likely are other taggins needed
03:56.11starseekeryukonbob:  That's the early draft - I was hoping to have brlcad tear it up first
03:57.34brlcadyeah, you're not supposed to actually *read* it .. :) that was just to see the conversion
03:58.41yukonbobheh -- should I keep the '"press accept" is extraneous when "accept" will do what you want' to myself too?
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03:59.12starseekerI dunno - do we want to keep the "press *" convention going?
04:00.11brlcadaccept/reject are the only two iirc that have shortcuts
04:00.38brlcadotherwise there's several dozen other things you can "press" that don't have any other command that provides that feature
04:04.09starseekerarrrrrgh
04:04.43starseekerhow ironic considering I thought Tex would be the stable part of this...
04:04.49yukonbobheh
04:10.44yukonbobheh -- esr's document say's "[this] is aimed at authors [...] on Linux, but should be useful for people [...] on other Unixes as well"
04:22.19yukonbobstarseeker: did you run the xmlto, or did brl-cad?
04:22.26starseekerhe did
04:22.28louipcyou poor gentoo users
04:22.40yukonbobstarseeker: ok -- good night :)
04:22.53starseekerlouipc:  Normally everything does well - docbook seems to be a weakness for some reason...
04:23.34starseekerlouipc:  I'll take a closer look at what firebird does tomorrow
04:23.45starseekerer brlcad rather
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04:29.23brlcadhowdy iraytrace
04:29.36iraytraceEvening!
04:29.46brlcadhow's that class?
04:30.01brlcad(rtrt)
04:30.20iraytrace1 is a pain in the (ahem)  1 is great, 1 interesting but tedious
04:30.35iraytracertrt is great
04:31.06iraytraceabout to do HF and acceleration structures
04:32.19iraytracecongrats at putting machine.h to rest
04:33.10brlcadstill have just a little more to do, but might even get a dbupgrade that works on non-native v4 databases working soon
04:33.21brlcadnow that it can pretty much pick at run-time
04:33.38brlcadas well as mac universal binaries
04:33.41iraytracethat would be *kewl*
04:35.39iraytraceTouched a MacBook Air for the first time today.  It's a lot more sturdy than I had feared it might be.
04:36.53brlcadstarseeker: the tex tools it needed are installed now, but it dies somewhere in the tex processing so more work/learning still needed
04:37.21yukonbobbrlcad: you installed fop as well?
04:37.25brlcadiraytrace: yeah, I saw one in an apple store a little while back.  pretty slick
04:37.52iraytraceWhat's needing TeX?
04:38.34louipcI need to put together a decent resume for myself hmm
04:38.36brlcadyukonbob: not yet, it's got a doosie of a dep
04:38.50brlcadiraytrace: some docbook processing tools
04:39.12yukonbobbrlcad: that's why I ended up working through the jadetex issues instead :P
04:41.03brlcadjust waiting on the dep to download
04:41.08yukonbobgood luck. Enjoy the Java ;)
04:42.00brlcadfop is actually what we used many years ago when there were *no* decent parser tools .. and it actually did work, and worked well..
04:43.12yukonbobyou mean FO parsers?
04:43.23yukonbobafaik, it's _still_ the only FO parser
04:43.48brlcadI mean going from docbook through FOP to various formats
04:50.42starseekerAh - HA!
04:51.46starseekerxmlto fo oed_doc.xml; fop oed_doc.fo -pdf oed_doc.pdf
04:53.26starseekerbrlcad:  Should we make our own stylesheet for "official" BRL-CAD stuff, or does someone out there have one you like?
05:08.02louipcstarseeker: hey you know if you're actually serious about going to debian you ought to give arch linux a try first ;)
05:09.05starseekerHeh
05:09.30starseekerOK, this looks slightly less horrid (again a formatting demo):  http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/oed_doc-draft.pdf
05:17.05louipcman that l (letter L) looks exactly like a 1 (number one)
05:17.14louipcl comb1.c
05:18.45starseekerI'll add a note about that
05:19.14starseekerAnd now I really do need to go to bed - at least I can sleep now :-)
05:19.19starseekeryay pdf...
05:19.41brlcadwoot
05:19.44louipcthe font it is
05:19.48louipcstarseeker: very nice though
05:24.01Axman6starseeker: i hope that was a serious yay...
05:26.28brlcadstarseeker: 'yes' .. i'm sure there's a stylesheet out there that would be suitable if not a great start
05:27.05brlcadheck, even a variant of that clean one you just used isn't all that bad for starters if some of the quirks can be fixed
05:37.30brlcadmm.. the firebird pdf style is pretty nice
05:51.41PrezKennedycourse we have a Russian guy writing them...
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06:20.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30380 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_ext.h: C++ mode
06:21.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30381 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/footer.sh: C or C++ files should have the c-file-style set to stroustrup
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11:18.13CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30382 10/brlcad/trunk/Makefile.am:
11:18.13CIA-4BRL-CAD: nifty, the top-level makefile will obey a DISTCHECK_CONFIGURE_FLAGS directive.
11:18.13CIA-4BRL-CAD: make --enable-all one of the things it does during distcheck so that all files
11:18.13CIA-4BRL-CAD: are included in the dist and the compilation of everything is tested.
11:19.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30383 10/brlcad/trunk/include/conf/PATCH: bump to a .2 patch revision for ajem release testing (this is 7.12.0 prerelease testing)
11:22.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30384 10/brlcad/trunk/include/conf/PATCH: make the ajem test rev unique, bump it up again
11:23.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30385 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/libpng/Makefile.am: extra dist mismatch
11:33.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r30386 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (bu.h config_win.h): this should solve the MS Visual Studio inline problem: define (the C) inline as the Microsoft specific __inline in config_win.h
11:34.25d_rossbergi hope this works for Bob too
11:34.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30387 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/ (4 files in 4 dirs): few additional files detected missing from the dist
11:35.19brlcadyeah, I really think he was just hacking down the wrong path
11:35.43brlcadreally shouldn't have needed those tcl/tk mods to make inline work .. they were working!
11:35.44clock_They are preparing to shoot a satellite :)
11:36.06clock_shoot down a satellite
11:57.44starseekerAxman6:  Indeed it was a serious yay :-)
11:57.58Axman6excellent :P
11:58.23d_rossbergbrlcad: in standard-tcl the VS inline=__inline is set as a -D compiler parameter
13:44.37brlcadd_rossberg: good to know, maybe that is all that is needed for the C-side too in config_win.h
13:56.03d_rossbergi put the inline=__inline in the config_win.h C (i.e. !__cplusplus) branch
14:21.27``Erik*yawrgn*
14:21.39``Erikiraytrace stayed for more than 5 seconds!
14:22.14``Erik<-- ponders logging into his box and tweaking the irc client say it plays the old 'impossible mission' intro soundbyte... "stay a while... stayyyy FOREEVVEEEERRRRRRRRR"
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18:09.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30388 10/brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/g_qa.1: Fix formatting for brlman command.
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19:21.39``Erikwow, I feel retarded
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22:11.58``Erikhehehe nice... "*BSD is for People who Love *nix; Linux is for People who Hate Windows"
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080221

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080221

03:08.49brlcadahhh.. prime rib *woot*
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05:30.08starseekerOK, this is sorta cool:  http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/cassini-glass-titan.png
05:30.44starseekerfun with the projection shader (image from NASA, actually of Titan)
05:32.32starseekerNotice how the titan image is actually visible distorted through the glass probe :)
05:35.01iraytracekewl!
05:36.28iraytraceOf course, you modeled that in mged, right? ;-)
05:47.19starseekerHehe
05:47.26starseekerno, it's a dxf conversion
05:47.29PrezKennedyprime rib?? where??
05:48.01starseekerOriginal is here:  http://space.jpl.nasa.gov/models/
05:48.26PrezKennedystarseeker, have you tried Celestia?
05:48.35starseekerNo, actually
05:48.53starseekerThis was more a test of and learning exercise on BRL-CAD
05:50.52PrezKennedyjust figured id mention it if you were interested in that sort of thing
05:51.15brlcadPrezKennedy: was one of ze olive tree's specials
05:51.31PrezKennedynoooooo and i missed it!!
05:51.56starseekerPrezKennedy:  I've heard of it and heard it's good
05:52.14PrezKennedystarseeker, yes it's great
05:52.58starseekerPrezKennedy:  Not so flashy, but if you're curious about the Apollo era computers this site is awesome:  http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/index.html
05:53.21PrezKennedyibiblio has all the cool stuff
05:55.05PrezKennedybrlcad, a domain squatter is trying to sell osgaming.com for $2.500
05:55.53louipcos being open source?
05:56.29PrezKennedyin osgaming.net's case... yes
05:56.41PrezKennedyfor osgaming.com, they're trying to market it as off-shore gaming
05:56.51louipcaah off shore
05:57.06PrezKennedyyeah at first i had no idea why it would be so big either
05:57.13louipci hate squatters
05:57.28starseekerAh well, tomorrow
05:57.44PrezKennedyi hate em too
05:59.06starseeker<evil chuckle> or I could model Titan itself and heck with the picture :-)
06:05.57brlcadstarseeker: could also try turning on smoothed normals
06:07.03brlcadbot_smooth or smooth_bot command in mged, forget which
06:07.42brlcadoperates on individual bot primitives, though, so might have to script a loop to iterate over all bot primitives or set the property some other way
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13:36.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30389 10/brlcad/trunk/include/brep.h: Having extern "C" around vmath.h and bu.h brings about the use of "C" linkage with templates when __cplusplus is defined.
13:40.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30390 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/bwish/bwish.vcproj: Added BRLCAD_DLL, HAVE_CONFIG_H and BRLCADBUILD. Removed IGNORE_CONFIG_H.
13:40.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30391 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/btclsh/btclsh.vcproj: Added BRLCAD_DLL, HAVE_CONFIG_H and BRLCADBUILD. Removed IGNORE_CONFIG_H.
13:46.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30392 10/brlcad/trunk/src/bwish/cadAppInit.c: Clean up the headers a bit.
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14:29.34``Erik*yargn*
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19:18.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30393 10/brlcad/trunk/include/config_win.h: Define NOMINMAX before including windows.h to avoid clobbering std::numeric_limits<*>::min/max in C++
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22:19.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30394 10/brlcad/trunk/include/config_win.h: define fmax using __max instead of max
22:20.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30395 10/brlcad/trunk/src/bwish/cadAppInit.c: Include winsock2.h before any possible include of windows.h
22:24.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30396 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Mods to compile brep.
22:29.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30397 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Remove the ON_CLASS specifier (i.e. __declspec) for RT_MemoryArchive.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080222

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080222

00:19.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30398 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/unix/Makefile.in: reapply the patch that installs libtcl.so and libtclstub.so, and conditionally installs the manual pages.
00:20.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30399 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tk/unix/Makefile.in: reapply the patch that installs libtk.so and libtkstub.so, and conditionally installs the manual pages.
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03:05.44starseekerShucks - mythbusters re-busted the Archimedes death ray
03:07.51Axman6good call
03:08.12starseekerAxman6:  What, the rebusting?
03:08.23Axman6using BRL-
03:08.26Axman6CAD*
03:08.27starseekerAh
03:08.30starseeker:-)
03:09.28starseekerWell, it would be an excuse to model a Roman ship...
03:12.31louipcyarrr
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03:14.22yukonbobninjas operating archimedes deathray vs. a pirate ship (full of pirates, or course) -- two birds with one stone...
03:14.30starseekerIn theory, it might actually be really simple to test a death ray setup if you know the properties of the mirrors
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04:36.55brlcadMaloeran: *ping*
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05:52.16brlcadis it possible to compile maxima without Tk ?
05:52.43brlcadthe port seems hard-wired to tk84
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11:33.25starseekerbrlcad:  Hmm.  I think there is a "lisp-only" compile option that could avoid tk.  tk should be needed only for xmaxima, so maybe disabling that...
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11:34.07starseekerbrlcad:  Which lisp are you building with?  GCL might make the tk thing more difficult - I seem to recall they have their own bindings...
11:34.19starseekerI recommend sbcl if it's available.
12:55.35brlcadsbcl
12:55.44starseekersteel bank common lisp
12:56.04starseekerMaxima can be built with any of several lisp implementations as a foundation
12:57.30brlcadhad four different options
12:57.33brlcadthat installed okay
12:57.47brlcadit's maxima itself that has a dep set saying it wants tk
12:58.05starseekerOK. It might not have a disable flag - let me take a look
12:58.59brlcadi'm giving it a go to hack it off by hand
12:59.07starseekerouch
12:59.33starseekerDon't worry too much brlcad - if it will take a lot of effort it's not that critical
13:00.52starseekerConfound it
13:01.00starseekerthey don't have a disable X/tk flag
13:06.32brlcadwell if you want to give a manual hacked compile a go, it should work -- all it's listed deps (except tk) are installed
13:06.44starseekerCool - thanks!
13:07.59brlcadthe ports system is in the middle of an upgrade, so things might disappear as they get updated
13:08.09brlcadlemme know if it looks like something is missing
13:08.29brlcad(but basically it's a full upgrade in progress, so even things like autoconf will disappear for a few min)
13:08.57starseekerWill do.  My only concern so far is whether the Maxima guys stayed compatible with the 1.0.7 release of sbcl
13:10.14starseekerthey may have
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13:27.11starseekerInteresting.  The dumped lisp image won't load, but I CAN load the compiled fasl files and start the system
13:27.51starseekerWell, that should work fine
13:28.06starseekerThanks Sean - appreciate it!
13:28.32brlcadgot it working?
13:28.37starseekerSort of
13:28.59starseekerThe dumped lisp core is complaining about incorrect magic number, but I can load the system with a script
13:29.13starseekereeeek
13:29.42brlcad"don't log out" if you use bash ;)
13:29.46starseekerIs rlwrap on this box anywhere?
13:29.50starseekerright :-)
13:30.12brlcadthere it's back
13:30.32starseekerphew
13:30.47brlcadnot too bad, none of the superuser accounts use bash
13:30.57brlcadso it would have been recoverable, just a pita
13:31.04starseekerAh :-)
13:31.52starseekerIf we can throw rlwrap on brlcad I think it should be good to go
13:32.11starseekersbcl doesn't have a readline binding built in, so its default command line behavior is a bit like old style doss
13:32.13starseekerer dos
13:33.19starseekerMajor system upgrades are always SO much fun...
13:36.28brlcadrlwrap installed
13:43.12starseekerSweet!  thanks much
13:45.36starseeker(being able to left arrow to fix a formula without erasing it is a nice feature...)
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14:38.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30400 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Added breplicator.
14:40.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30401 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Initial check-in.
14:42.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30402 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/patch/rpatch.f: ws
14:46.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30403 10/brlcad/trunk/src/java/mil/army/arl/brlcad/ (BrlcadGeometry.java BrlcadGeometryServer.java Partition.java): add local variables footer
14:47.07``Erikwait, what? fortran?
14:47.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30404 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/ (footer.sh header.sh): add support for .java files
14:50.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30405 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (8 files in 7 dirs): ws style updates for non-C source files that have been processed with indent.sh, making indentation consistent
14:50.37``Erikwhat are you updating? the old bz machine?
14:50.41brlcadthat's some old billy bob code
14:50.46brlcadyeah
14:50.54brlcadjust a few things, not the whole thing
14:51.31brlcadportupgrade actually crashed mid-way, inconveniently leaving three ports deleted
14:51.31``Erik"portupdate" like to rebuild a lot of stuff
14:51.37``Erikugh
14:51.44``Erikcrazy, did y ou pass it the -bu option?
14:52.21brlcadsorry, portmanager
14:52.23brlcadportmanager -u
14:52.23``Erik<-- usually does "sudo portmanager -u -bu -l"
14:52.47``Erikthat -bu has saved my butt a couple times
14:53.13brlcadI was able to do the repairs before it wrecked any more havoc
14:53.20brlcadI don't really want the whole system to update
14:53.33``Erikexcuse to push the machine migration? :D
14:53.50brlcadjust had to at least update the ports tree though, so everything will want to update
14:55.17brlcaddid horrible on sh code
15:15.05``Erikheh, ohloh got on slashdot's front page and got a lot of shit in the comments
15:17.38``Erik"maybe playing strip poker against the naked robot wasn't such a good idea"
15:18.59starseekerSaw that
15:19.36starseekerI can see why people were uneasy - it's disconcerting to have people making professional judgements on you based on for-free/fun work
15:19.59starseekerSort of ruins the relaxed atmosphere
15:23.11``Erikplus loc is a shit metric, we've known that for 30 years *shrug8
15:23.23starseekerindeed
15:23.45``Erikprobably the best thing microsoft ever did was break ibm's insistence on sloc for pay 25 years ago
15:24.31starseekerCertainly better than their "for non-commercial-use-only" doc releases
15:42.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30406 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/ (124 files in 10 dirs):
15:42.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: needs some run-time testing, but apply the style changes to the tcl sources.
15:42.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: indent.sh did surprisingly well at about 90% correctness though it was often
15:42.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: confused by embedded #'s in the sources. seeing other examples, it looks like
15:42.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: it's valid to quote the # (e.g. for upvar and #auto) and/or quote stringlists
15:42.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: that have embeeded #'s but use {}'s. still needs testing.
15:54.42brlcadmaxima is installed
15:55.00starseekerCool!  thank you
16:00.45starseekerAh, maxima - my brain's math co-processor ;-)
16:01.32``Erikheh
16:23.13starseekerHmm - rset var_linewidth 3 doesn't do anything to the model line drawings.  Is it another setting?
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16:51.45starseekerAnybody know if there's a way to smoothly zoom as opposed to clicking between large jumps?
16:53.03starseekernevermind, found the zoom option on the command line
19:41.53``Erikthere's also "size"
20:03.51brlcadstarseeker: there's no underscore
20:03.54brlcadrun rset
20:25.33CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30407 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (cmd.c cmd.h rtif.c): collapse some duplicate functions
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20:36.32``Erikhrm
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21:04.13starseekerbrlcad:  Oh, duh - thanks
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080223

00:43.16*** join/#brlcad killerflo (n=5931fce0@bz.bzflag.bz)
00:43.33killerflois there anyone who speaks german?
00:44.06killerflook i try in english
00:45.00killerfloi have installed brl-cad and i don't find the programm on my HD can somebody help me?
00:45.10starseekertry mged
00:45.34starseeker/usr/brlcad/bin/mged if install is in default location
00:49.41killerflowhat is the command in terminal to show the content of /usr/brlcad/bin/
00:49.54starseekerls /usr/brlcad/bin
00:50.16starseekeron linux
00:50.26starseekerWhat operating system are you using?
00:50.38killerflomac os x 10.4
00:50.43starseekerAh.
00:51.11starseekerNot sure where it is there - don't have a Mac handy
00:52.00starseekerDid you build it yourself or use the binary?
00:52.10killerflobinary
00:52.37starseekerUm.  Did you put it in the Applications folder?
00:53.34killerflonormaly the programmes are installed in the application folder, but there is nothing new after the installation
00:53.59killerfloso it must be installed somewhere else
00:54.08killerflobut i can't find it
00:54.19starseekerWhat about a global search for mged
01:02.50killerfloi have a solution
01:03.04starseekerwhat's that?
01:03.13killerfloi have to run x11 and start it from there
01:03.23killerfloi found it in the folder u said
01:03.30starseekerAh :-)
01:03.44starseekerworking now?
01:03.44killerflohere is the solution http://www.nabble.com/Problem-with-installing-BRL-CAD-on-my-MacBook-td14826259.html
01:04.30killerfloyes it works thanks for help
01:04.37starseekernp - have fun!
01:04.49killerflobye
01:05.10*** part/#brlcad killerflo (n=5931fce0@bz.bzflag.bz)
01:22.59*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net)
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03:16.17IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/latesteffort.png  :)
04:58.31*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@c-67-172-239-24.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
04:58.50brlcadit's the same on mac as it is for linux, exactly the same other than telling users that they have to start up X11
10:13.24*** join/#brlcad bjohan (n=bjohan@c83-254-64-17.bredband.comhem.se)
10:13.45bjohancan brl-cad be used to generate drawings?
11:16.28*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-85-74.dclient.hispeed.ch)
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14:24.31Z80-Boybrlcad: query please...
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18:12.00starseekerbrlcad:  How's this look? http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/earth-model-cutaway.png
18:16.43starseeker(for those of you wondering, yes it is to scale (or pretty close) and I did model the outer layers as ell rather than sph
18:23.18brlcadhah
18:23.23brlcadthat's pretty damn cool
18:23.55starseekerTook NASA's fact page for the data, and wikipedia for rough depths of the various layers
18:29.29starseekerSean, can I position the "camera" corresponding to the raytracing window?
18:30.38*** join/#brlcad elite01_ (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-098-141.pools.arcor-ip.net)
18:36.08brlcadwhat do you mean?
18:36.17starseekernevermind
18:36.29brlcadthe raytrace view is the "camera" view
18:36.32starseekerI was "zooming in" on the cassini model, but it's so tiny
18:36.46starseekerthe earth under it is one pixel on this scale
18:36.52brlcad:)
18:37.02brlcadyou can probably get them both into view with perspective
18:37.11starseekerAh - good idea
18:38.02starseekerhowdy :-)
18:38.19yukonbob:) hi starseeker
18:38.24yukonbobhaving fun?
18:38.30starseekerYep :-)
18:38.38yukonbobcarry on, then :)
18:38.52starseekerI made a wild remark to brlcad yesterday, and he didn't let me get away with it
18:39.06yukonbob?What comment?
18:39.11yukonbob*remark
18:39.31starseekerprivate chat
18:40.38starseekerworking on making some docs, and my example model didn't go so hot for what I was calling it.  So I said I'd call it Earth
18:40.47starseekeropps
18:41.16yukonbobnice
18:41.45starseekerSo this morning I decided I'd give it a go, and one thing sorta led to another...
18:42.35brlcaddid you get internal texture working or is that external?
18:44.23starseekerexternal
18:44.57starseekerit's actually pretty simple - a texture shader for the external sphere, then the rest as basic shapes
18:46.40starseekeryikes
18:48.02yukonbobstarseeker: what images are you using?
18:48.18starseekerbrlcad found them:  http://visibleearth.nasa.gov/view_rec.php?id=7100
18:49.53louipclol @ canada vs usa
18:50.43louipcsnow , no snow
18:54.03starseekerbrb
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18:56.20*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-85-74.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:56.59Z80-BoyI just installed latest official brlcad on fresh new Linux system.
18:57.19Z80-BoyWhen I run "mged" it says backgrounding or initializing or something like that and waits for a long time
18:57.25Z80-Boythen it returns with "Detached"
18:57.29Z80-Boyno window appears
18:57.35Z80-Boyno mged process is running afterwards
18:57.42brlcadhow'd you install it?
18:57.50Z80-BoyDuring the wait, one there is one mged process and one mged [defunct] process
18:57.57Z80-Boy./configure --prefix=/usr; make; make install
18:58.09brlcadah
18:58.16Z80-Boyis it wrong?
18:58.18brlcadadd --enable-all to configure
18:58.24Z80-Boythen it's gonna work?
18:58.32brlcadmake clean && make
18:59.40Z80-BoyOK doing that
19:00.19louipchmm shouldn't it be --prefix=/usr/brlcad?
19:00.28Z80-BoyI don't know
19:00.32Z80-Boynormal programs take /usr
19:00.37*** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=CY@c-68-33-217-173.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
19:00.47louipcyou might have borked your system
19:01.03louipcyeah but brlcad libs conflict with some essential linux libs
19:01.11Z80-Boylol
19:01.26Z80-Boyisn't it freetype or fontconfig or something like that?
19:01.41louipcthat's why the default configure; make; make install installs in /usr/brlcad
19:02.14louipcZ80-Boy: I think it's some kernel stuff too
19:02.27starseekerAnybody got enough ram to convert that 13 meg sucker on NASA's website to a PNG?
19:02.37Z80-Boybrlcad: did I screw my system by installing with --prefix=/usr
19:02.42louipclol
19:03.08starseekerZ80-Boy:  This is experience talking.  If you're on Linux, the odds are good that the answer is yes
19:03.15louipcwhy would you convert that to png?
19:03.26starseekerTo convert it to pix, to use it as a texture
19:03.31Z80-BoyLinux comes pre-borked by design
19:03.46louipcno support for jpg textures?
19:03.47louipcgah!
19:04.15Z80-Boyit's not a matter of RAM, but a matter of well written program
19:04.18louipcZ80-Boy: how's that?
19:05.01Z80-BoyYou can do conversion without placing the whole image into the memory
19:05.28louipci mean how is linux pre-borked?
19:06.36starseekerWell, so far the Gimp is thrashing and Imagemagick's convert refused to try
19:06.44starseekerwhat else 'ya got?
19:08.59Z80-Boywhat is the source format of the image?
19:09.05starseekerjpg
19:09.22Z80-Boyhow much tile cache do you have in GIMP?
19:09.27Z80-BoyWhat are the dimensions of the jpeg?
19:09.41brlcadZ80-Boy: possibly..
19:09.45Z80-BoyImagemagick is a piece of crap, very suboptimal
19:09.48brlcadthat is why it's not the default
19:10.02Z80-Boycan I revert the install?
19:10.08brlcadheh
19:10.38starseekerimage is 21600x21600
19:10.38brlcadcan you magically recreate files that you overwrote?
19:10.42starseekergimp tile cashe...
19:11.10starseeker1 gig
19:11.11brlcadZ80-Boy: the issue really depends on your system .. if you had the deprecated librt.so installed and in use, you'll have problems (as we have a librt)
19:11.32brlcadanother common one is libbu and libbn .. but those are much more rare
19:12.40brlcadlouipc: no support for any lossy formats
19:13.15Z80-Boystarseeker: to convert this image into png, you need 518400 bytes of memory
19:13.22Z80-Boya strip 21600 pixels wide and 8 pixels high
19:15.05starseekerHang on - looks like I might be able to use some old fashioned tools and make a pit stop in pnm...
19:15.48Z80-Boylol
19:15.55starseekerbingo
19:15.56Z80-Boyyou need a lot of disk space for that I guess
19:17.14starseekerYep - if the other tools were trying to do that in memory no wonder it crapped out
19:18.57starseekerHeh - cool - the pnm and the pix formats are almost exactly the same - pnm VERY slightly bigger
19:19.08brlcadstarseeker: they already provide png's...
19:19.18louipchttp://freshmeat.net/projects/vips/
19:19.30brlcad"Details and More Imagery"
19:19.32louipcfor large images ^
19:19.47louipchah!
19:19.52starseekerAh :-)
19:20.23brlcadmged won't care so long as you have enough memory to load it
19:20.35starseekeruh oh
19:20.39louipchmm 473MB png
19:20.41brlcadit won't exceed core though
19:20.48brlcad(without aborting)
19:23.32brlcadyeah, a color pnm is nearly identical .. they have a header block and are forth-quadrant images (0,0 in top left instead of bottom left)
19:24.41starseekerHmm - that image wasn't set up to map to a sphere the way the other one was
19:25.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30408 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (87 files in 16 dirs): style and ws update using the indent.sh emacs formatter script. make the sources consistent with header/footer blocks and our BSD KNF / K&R indent style.
19:28.02Z80-Boybrlcad: I did configure with extra --enable-all, make clean, make, make install, mged
19:28.05Z80-Boyand still doesn't work
19:28.21Z80-BoyInitializing and backgrounding, please wait...
19:28.40*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.184.222)
19:29.12starseekerWhat do you think brlcad - the successful model worth putting up as a screen shot?  (I doubt the model is anything to write home about...)
19:29.35Z80-Boywrite home == army slang?
19:30.17starseekerno - I mean I doubt the way I modeled it is a shining example of good modeling practices - it's OK but not great
19:32.50Z80-Boybrlcad: is there any debugging command I could use to figure out where the mged program is sticking?
19:33.53Z80-BoyI even tried ldconfig, doesn't help.
19:34.33Z80-BoyIf I run rt, it prints a help message. That works.
19:36.19louipcgdb --args mged
19:36.25louipcrun
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19:54.19brlcadstarseeker: yeah, that'd be a great screenshot
19:54.26brlcadZ80-Boy: try "mged -f"
19:57.23brlcadstarseeker: sure, that's a great picture
20:03.35Z80-Boymged -f does segmentation fault
20:15.53*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487753B.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:31.10starseekerbrlcad:  Cool, thanks
20:44.28*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487753B.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:54.30Twingy``Erik, brl-cad, I'm doing the March 12-13 IA training, are you?
21:30.41Z80-Boybrlcad: the parse_points as you said doesn't work
21:30.45Z80-Boydoesn't simply do anything.
21:30.57Z80-BoyDoesn't print error message, doesn't create any primitive.
22:23.10starseekerbrlcad:  Is there any way in viewing mode to highlight an element of the model too small to see - sort of a "it's here" pointer to follow?'
22:34.23starseekermeh - even the high resolution map doesn't have NEARLY enough detail
22:55.21brlcadstarseeker: you can go into object/solid selection mode which will illuminate objects -- hit 's' or 'o' in the graphics window and move the mouse up/down
22:55.26brlcadit'll illuminate and tell you the name
22:55.34brlcadhit q or esc to cancel
22:55.50brlcad(otherwise it effective does an oed or sed)
22:55.54starseekerOK.  Yeah, that's how I had been doing it
22:56.29starseekerNot a very normal problem for this type of software anyway ;-)
22:56.56brlcadwhat do you mean?
22:57.36brlcador is it just something so small that even illuminated it's not clear what/where it is?
22:57.49starseekerzooming from something 6000km across to something a couple meters long
22:58.00starseekerbasically
22:58.13starseekerthe eyepoint and lookat settings did the trick
22:58.31brlcadcenter work similar to lookat as well
22:59.10brlcador if you autoview one object and then e up additional objects, it won't change the display size
22:59.21brlcade.g. B up something tiny, then e up the big thing
22:59.28starseekerAh
22:59.37starseekerThat would do it
23:00.03starseekerNo biggie - even the really high resolution photo didn't have nearly enough detail for the shot I was trying to line up
23:00.23brlcadahh
23:01.48starseekerThis is kinda cool:  http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/earth-night.png
23:03.20brlcadyeah, that is
23:03.51starseekerNothing you couldn't do with any sphere mapping software of course
23:04.55brlcadyeah, nothing special, but still pretty cool ;)
23:05.01brlcadyou can do some other effects
23:05.11brlcadis that just the texture shader or stacked with phong?
23:05.19starseekertexture shader
23:05.39brlcadtry the "stack" shader, and add texture and glass
23:06.07brlcador texture and bumpmap.. that might be neat
23:10.57starseekerWhat should I see on bumpmap?
23:11.11brlcadgood question :)
23:11.14brlcaddepends on the bump map
23:11.33starseekerDo I enter the bump map first or the texture first?
23:12.44brlcadbump mapping in general fakes the impression of surface detail
23:12.46brlcadI'd think the texture is first
23:13.11brlcadadding glass or plastic on top should make it look like it's painted/glossy
23:13.54brlcadnasa has some topological maps, those would probably work even better, but you should get something from just using the same image as a bump map too
23:15.30starseekerGlass killed it somehow
23:15.44brlcadhuh?
23:15.51brlcadkilled as in crashed?
23:15.55starseekerjust getting speckles
23:16.04brlcadhm
23:16.05brlcadahh
23:16.20brlcadyeah, maybe not glass, it's going to let most of the light through
23:16.32brlcadplastic probably better
23:20.24starseekerhmm - http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/weird1.png
23:21.05starseekerit's interesting, that's for sure...
23:21.23starseekerstack {{texture {file world4.pix w 21600 n 10800}} {bump {file world4.pix w 21800 n 10600}} {plastic {}}}
23:22.50brlcadany reason the file dimensions are different? :)
23:22.59starseekerooops
23:23.26brlcadit's not an ideal bump map either, so it may still look wonky
23:24.00brlcadusually it's a greyscale indicating depth
23:24.14brlcadheck, it may even be assuming bw instead of pix
23:24.39starseekercould be
23:25.12starseekerYeah, that's better - not much in the way of bumpmapping though
23:25.25starseekerbbl, gotta put away dishes
23:25.58brlcadI'd imagine at that scale, you'd have to increase the bump size considerably too
23:28.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30409 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (1014 files in 49 dirs):
23:28.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: major style and ws consistency cleanup. apply the automatic emacs-based
23:28.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: indent.sh formatting to the sources so they consistently are formatted to our
23:28.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: BSD KNF / K&R indentation style (see HACKING) using 4 char indents with tab
23:28.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: stops at 8.
23:30.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30410 10/brlcad/trunk/src/bwish/cadAppInit.c: add footer, indent
23:31.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30411 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/g-adrt.c: footer, indent
23:38.55alex_jonibrlcad: can you still use svn diff after this?
23:40.01alex_joniI mean .. efficiently (if you want to see what happened in a certain commit vs. an older version..)
23:50.02starseekerbrlcad:  technically, any bumpmapping that would have anything like visual significance on this scale probably wouldn't be physical anyway ;-)
23:57.21starseekerah, shoot - the mapping of the image isn't corresponding to the physical dimensions I had laid out
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080224

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080224

00:06.53starseekerwhich was also why the overlay was originally inside out - dogonne it
00:25.22starseekerCool.
00:34.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30412 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfft/ (ditsplitc.c splitditc.c): format the sources being generated in a more readable style and include a description header
00:35.32brlcadstarseeker: heh, atmosphere would be really hard
00:36.03starseekerbrlcad:  Oh, not as atmosphere in the "show clouds" sense but just so it's there :-)
00:36.27brlcadah, heh, ok
00:36.54brlcadI tried to simulate atmosphere once where I was trying to get the natural "fade" you see as the air gets thin
00:37.22starseekerWe'd need to be model density gradients
00:37.24brlcadI finally did get something mildly amusing with highly-transparent layers
00:37.36brlcadbut it took like a layer per pixel
00:37.41starseekerew
00:38.04brlcadat least to get it to look really nicely smooth and avoid refraction/reflection problems
00:38.33brlcadalex_joni: sure you can still diff
00:38.52brlcadthe biggest issue will mostly be folks that have patches that haven't been applied from before/after
00:39.05brlcadsince it'll likely show up as conflict
00:45.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30413 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tab/script.l: include a header and footer
00:48.58starseekerActually, it DOES have a slight impact:  http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/earth-model-cutaway-atmosphere.png
00:49.46starseekerThat's cool
00:52.02starseekergot the troposphere, stratosphere, and mesosphere (roughly)
00:52.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30414 10/brlcad/trunk/src/burst/grid.c: get rid of the SINGLE_PRECISION sections, format it up
00:57.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30415 10/brlcad/trunk/src/lgt/do_options.c: more SINGLE_PRECISION removal and cleanup
01:00.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30416 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tube.c: cleanup
01:01.30brlcadheh, nice
01:01.55brlcadthere's another map that has clouds
01:02.10brlcad(from nasa)
01:03.19starseekeryou mean just clouds?
01:03.28starseekerno earth?
01:11.14starseekerThere we go - got a bit of atmosphere reflection going on near the lower left part of the cutaway:  http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/earth-model-cutaway-atmosphere-2.png
01:53.09starseekerThere we go - finally something I can show my dad that he'll appreciate:  http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/earth-structure.png
02:27.48brlcadthat looks nice
02:28.24starseekerKnow of anyone doing a geology textbook? ;-
02:29.52brlcadcan you put the hole a little more to the left (over the pacific), and rendered more to the left (maybe 15 deg) instead of cenetered?
02:30.31brlcadheh, not that immediately comes to mind, but I'm sure it could be put to use
02:30.42starseekerit would take a bit, but sure
02:34.53starseekerShould I put up the model somewhere brlcad?
02:35.00brlcadsure
02:35.07brlcadit's a great example
02:35.23brlcadthe best place for it right now is probably the geometry tracker
02:35.26brlcadhttp://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=105292&atid=641557
02:35.52brlcadshould also try to import the .pix ;)
02:36.02brlcadso it's standalone
02:36.12starseekererm.  OK, how do I do that?
02:36.54brlcadi think the exact name used for _DENSITIES will work
02:37.00brlcads/name/command/
02:37.16brlcadas that'll just bring it in as char data
02:37.18starseekerOK, but what object do I store it in so the texture can spot it?
02:37.27brlcadwhatever you want to name it
02:37.37starseekerOK, one sec...
02:37.42brlcaddid you specify that the texture was file, object, or auto?
02:37.53brlcadif it's auto, you can just name it the same as the file
02:38.10brlcadif it's file, you'll have to change it to auto or obj
02:39.42starseekerand the hard drive goes crazy...
02:40.00brlcadhow big's the .pix?
02:41.25starseeker700 megs
02:41.30brlcadhehe
02:42.00brlcadeep, well I highly doubt sf's tracker will accept that no matter how it's encoded :)
02:42.21brlcadso maybe upload it to the web root instead
02:42.32brlcadmaybe with a tracker that links to it
02:42.40brlcadcan make a geometry folder or something
02:44.09brlcadone of the projects I wanted to get set up on solidgeometry.org is an online repository of solid models
02:44.11starseekerCan we upload the model with a link to the web page where the png is and instructions on how to convert it?
02:44.16starseekerCool :-)
02:46.05brlcadtie a web interface into a repository of models that have various converted formats available, various browsable renderings, allow users to upload their own models
02:47.11brlcadhave an interactive 3D geometry viewer option
02:47.27starseekerThat would be awesome
02:47.39brlcadwouldn't actually take that much to allow mged to be embeeded into a page too, so you could do command-line edits/actions
02:48.03starseekerNeed some good resource limiting mechanisms on the server
02:48.31brlcadyeah, would probably remove all of the 'expensive' commands, batch up the rest into a queue
02:48.41brlcador make it actually run client-side
02:48.55starseekerThat's probably the way to do, if it can be done
02:54.56starseekerbrlcad:  Getting an error even without the pix file:  Uploaded file must be >20 and <256000 bytes.
02:55.08starseekerLess than 256k isn't much
02:58.36brlcader .. 256k is more than plenty for a few sphers and cuts
02:58.49brlcadif you did the dbbinary, it's no longer < 256k
02:58.54starseekerI didn't
02:58.59brlcadhow big is it?
02:59.08starseeker400k
02:59.37starseekermaybe I did something wrong
03:00.05brlcadno, you probably have empty database records that need cleaned up
03:00.23brlcaddo a g2asc and asc2g
03:00.28brlcadsee how big it is
03:00.51brlcadthere's a cleanup command in mged, and it'll eventually reacquire those blocks, but I forget
03:01.25brlcadi wouldn't expect it to be more than a few k
03:01.33starseekerYep, 4.3k
03:01.41starseekerwow
03:01.54starseekerhow come it doesn't do that automatically on exit?
03:03.02brlcaddb's aren't sessioned, there's no exit actions that aren't any different than just running commands (which is why there is no save and no need for one)
03:03.14brlcadit does reuse dead space
03:03.42brlcadbut you must of either hit some pathological case by deleting, recreating, over and over
03:03.51brlcadso it couldn't reuse it yet
03:03.59starseekerah
03:04.37brlcador there's a bug in the code that determines when to reacquire, always a chance of that
03:04.55starseekerOK, well it's up now:  http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1900662&group_id=105292&atid=641557
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03:09.21Missing_LynxHi, I have a problem with BRLCAD on Windows XP - can anyone help?
03:14.35Missing_LynxOh, well, guess I'll try another time.
03:19.00starseekerNext up - Saturn ;-)
03:23.43starseekerhow to kill a raytracer in one easy step...
03:24.29brlcadheh, yep
03:25.30brlcadthat'd be one where a procedural texture shader would do nicely.. make one cylinder and have the procedure figure out what pattern to put inside
03:25.40brlcadsort of like what's already done for the grass shader
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05:12.11starseekerbrlcad:  Still on?
05:22.03starseekerHad question about Open Inventor
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11:04.32*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release 7.12.0 coming soon to a desktop near you
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080225

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080225

00:04.59*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (i=1000@s142-179-54-198.bc.hsia.telus.net)
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04:00.48iraytraceIt's quiet....  Too quiet ;-)
04:01.14starseekerSunday night ;-)
04:02.39iraytraceThat's just what they want us to think.  Chuckle.
04:03.27iraytraceJust curious.  I'd connected about 3 hours ago and hadn't seen a peep.  Since it's a new IRC clinet, I was wondering.  Thanks.
04:04.02starseekerNah, it's been quiet today.  Your client is not to blame ;-)
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04:45.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30418 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tk/unix/:
04:46.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30419 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/unix/:
06:09.02yukonbob...and _that_ is why brl-cad is in the position it's in.
06:09.14yukonbobiraytrace: did you get all that?
06:10.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30420 10/brlcad/trunk/src/lgt/ (extern.h fb.c lgt.c): get rid of SGI_WINCLOSE_BUG. it's something libfb should be handling if it's necessary.
06:16.50brlcadyukonbob: hm?
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10:04.32CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r30421 10/brlcad/trunk/include/config_win.h: at least MSVC 6.0 needs the min/max templates (because min/max is not contained in the MSVC-STL because windef.h already defines it as a macro)
12:54.22brlcadguten tag, d_rossberg
13:00.25d_rossberggood morning
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13:44.39CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30422 10/brlcad/trunk/src/burst/ (burst.h fb.c): oop, more SGI_WINCLOSE_BUG and SINGLE_PRECISION mods that didn't get committed.
14:33.24PrezKennedyhallo brlcad, wie geht es ihnen?
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14:57.13CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30423 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 6 dirs): (log message trimmed)
14:57.17CIA-32BRL-CAD: NATURAL_IEEE and REVERSE_IEEE are no longer used. instead, try to utilize the
14:57.21CIA-32BRL-CAD: bu_byteorder() run-time checks now where possible or WORDS_BIGENDIAN where not
14:57.25brlcadPrezKennedy: gut
14:57.27CIA-32BRL-CAD: feasible. while this doesn't change the behavior of htond and htonf, care needs
14:57.31CIA-32BRL-CAD: to be taken for the floating point format not being what we expect. make the
14:57.41CIA-32BRL-CAD: configure test warn more verbosely if we encounter something that may not be
14:57.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: ieee 754 floating point format (which in turn might imply htond and/or htonf
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15:55.07brlcadheh, kimchi in space
16:01.57clock_brlcad: my mged doesn't work but raytracing with rt seems to work.
16:02.28brlcadclock_: did you try a binary?  I can only imagine it's not working due to compilation settings
16:02.36clock_brlcad: do you have some tips how to investigate why is the mged hanging? mged -f you said doesn't help, tried.
16:02.58clock_brlcad: maybe because I set -O -march=pentium-m -fomit-frame-pointer?
16:03.01clock_I have GCC 4.1.2
16:03.13brlcadany reason you omit the frame pointer?
16:03.33clock_To have more registers and make it faster
16:03.44clock_-O -> -O3
16:04.04clock_for example gmp fails tests with this setting and -O3 has to be changed to -O2
16:04.17clock_The question is what's buggy whether the GCC or the CPU
16:04.39brlcadeh, probably neither
16:04.49clock_lol
16:04.52clock_Who's buggy then?
16:04.53brlcadO3 is allowed to diverge from IEEE floating point behaviors
16:04.57brlcadyou
16:05.01clock_has -ffast-math?
16:05.11brlcadup to gcc
16:05.21clock_oh that makes sense then
16:05.24brlcadas to what options O3 enables
16:05.33clock_Does BRL-CAD screw up if I type -O3?
16:05.35brlcadusually yes, it can and often does, among many other things
16:05.41brlcadno, we work fine
16:05.44clock_;-)
16:05.55clock_I even managed to compile Firefox
16:06.06brlcadgmp, i'm sure, is expecting specific floating point behaviors
16:06.06clock_I felt like colleting a Nobel Prize when I finished that
16:07.02clock_And, after we figure out how to travel to Alpha Centauri under 24 hours and figure out how to compile OpenOffice, we can say we have conquered the universe ;->
16:07.48brlcadstill, not sure what -fomit-frame-pointer with -g will mean, not that it's the problem you're hitting
16:08.07clock_I know it's not gonna gdb
16:08.17clock_But the rt takes hell long - I need maximum computation velocity!
16:08.36brlcadthen --disable-runtime-debug
16:08.52brlcadbut don't complain when you can't debug problems
16:08.52clock_How many % do I gain with this?
16:09.02brlcaddepends on the cpu, usually 5-15%
16:09.07clock_When I run into a problem I recompile with full debug and try again
16:09.25clock_--disable-runtime-debug goes into the ./configure?
16:09.47brlcadyes
16:10.19clock_Does it help when I say, after the mged hanging times out, it prints Detaching and ends?
16:10.23brlcadthe results will "invalidate" the benchmark results, but it will run faster
16:10.53clock_I gues it's gonna produce at least similar looking images
16:11.03brlcadthe images will be the same
16:11.08brlcadthe computations are the same
16:11.19clock_hmm
16:11.25clock_should I try BRL-CAD without make -j4?
16:11.31clock_Like just make? Could it be the cause?
16:11.31brlcadthat just disables a slew of run-time validity checks (that would otherwise ABORT the application)
16:11.44brlcadno, that has nothing to do with it
16:11.56clock_And, if I type mged -f it segfaults! Does this info help?
16:12.20brlcadyeah, that's interesting .. do you have a stack trace?
16:12.26clock_No
16:12.30clock_I didn't have gdb ;->
16:12.33brlcadthen no it doesn't help :)
16:12.36clock_Have to complicate one
16:13.08PrezKennedybrlcad, does brlcad run on Vista?
16:13.11clock_OK so my next homework is to get the stack trace from the segfaulting mged -f
16:13.20brlcadPrezKennedy: haven't tried it yet
16:13.34PrezKennedyi can try it tonight when i get home
16:13.53clock_Do you use cygwin or some proprietary C compiler for Windows?
16:13.54brlcadPrezKennedy: given how different it is, I'd be surprised it it worked without recompiling
16:14.06brlcadeither works
16:14.10clock_wow
16:15.53brlcadI've made a full cygwin build several times (and that's what Irix guy keeps compiling)
16:16.17brlcadit usually just needs a couple tweaks but sometimes builds cleanly out of the box.. just not frequently tested/maintained
16:16.36MinuteElectronIrix got it running on vista.
16:16.36clock_Does it work on Masox as well
16:16.46brlcad~masox
16:16.54brlcadnever heard of masox
16:16.54clock_MAC OS X
16:16.57brlcadah
16:17.01brlcadyes, of course
16:17.29brlcadMinuteElectron: without recompiling though?
16:17.37MinuteElectronbrlcad: oh, right
16:18.05MinuteElectroni don't know
16:18.06brlcadi don't doubt that it'll work if you compile it on vista.. there's nothing that specifically should limit it
16:18.33PrezKennedyseems to work fine on server 2003
16:19.24clock_Masox is a brand name of Czech ready-made dried bouillon in little bricks
16:19.50clock_That's why I call Mac OS X Masox
16:20.44clock_It's like you want to make a soup so you take a pot of boiling water throw one brick in and it dissolves and you get bouillon and then you can add more stuff
16:20.49PrezKennedysounds tasty like an Apple®
16:22.42clock_http://www.shop.czechoslovakshop.eu/images/big/4.jpg
16:23.31brlcadnot exactly an international brand :)
16:23.37clock_not exactly
16:23.56clock_but yeah it's the same as Knorr
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18:19.41``Erikhm
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18:57.46brlcadwoot, gsoc2008 finally/officially announced
19:41.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30426 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: Pick the first visual with the greatest depth. Mods to disallow use of DirectColor visuals.
19:41.50brlcadooh
19:41.51CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30427 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (15 files in 9 dirs): windows O_BINARY setmode cleanup
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21:11.43CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30428 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/conv-vg2g.c: include fcntl.h so O_RDONLY is properly defined
21:13.42brlcadhm, cadio.h or buio.h
21:38.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30429 10/brlcad/trunk/include/sysv.h: no longer checking for bsdselect, no longer providing it or using it either
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22:59.47``Erik<-- puts some food in him so he can stop zoning out
23:01.53yukonbobgsoc call for papers, or picked-projects?
23:08.48CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30430 10/brlcad/trunk/include/config_win.h: Only define min/max if MSVC 6.0 and older.
23:29.50starseekerwell, after a couple day's work I have... a wheel
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080226

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080226

00:19.49*** join/#brlcad ddddd (n=c0e89bee@bz.bzflag.bz)
00:20.13yukonbobstarseeker: link, please ;)
00:20.58starseekeryukonbob:  Don't have screenshot handy
00:21.08yukonbobstarseeker: what kind of wheel?
00:21.08starseekerAnyway, waiting for brlcad to look over
00:21.13starseekermodel car wheel
00:21.18yukonbobah
00:21.57yukonbob!Release the wheel
00:22.01yukonbob;)
00:22.02starseekerWell, it's my job now so it's part of my training
00:22.41starseekerI did upload my earth model
00:22.48yukonbobyes, you did that
00:22.49starseekerDid you have a chance to poke at that?
00:23.20starseekerAh :-)
00:23.26yukonbob<PROTECTED>
00:23.30starseekeryes
00:23.33starseekeressentially
00:23.51yukonbobie: no relief if i zoom in enough ;)
00:24.28starseekerNah.  In theory it might be able to do something with the right data, but I haven't tried real hard
00:24.47starseekeron the scale of this sucker, relief is almost in the noise except for the REALLY tall and deep points
00:24.51yukonbobwould be  a  pretty big data set for an interesting image ;)
00:24.57starseekerIndeed
00:25.24brlcadyukonbob: neither
00:26.22brlcadgoogle just announced that they are indeed going to *have* the program again, so lots to think about
00:26.28brlcadstarseeker: :)
00:26.49brlcadremember the levels of detail
00:27.09starseekerI looked at the body today, and it's all... curvy
00:27.36yukonbobheh
00:27.44brlcadyou have to simplify to the level of important information that captures the rough shape quickly
00:28.12brlcadthink of it like a rough draft.. you need the sketch on the back of a napkin sort, refine as time allows
00:28.26brlcadstart with the outline
00:28.27brlcada box
00:28.33starseekerRight
00:28.33brlcadstart cutting away
00:28.46brlcadyukonbob: are you interested in being a mentor?
00:28.53brlcadif we participated
00:29.11yukonbobstarseeker: speaking of tough, don't know if you saw this when the query was posted some time ago: http://www.friotherm.com/impeller.jpg
00:29.39starseekerUh...
00:29.41brlcadyeah, that's a great shape
00:29.48yukonbobvery@!
00:29.53yukonbobs/@//
00:30.24starseekerIt could be approximated with primitives, but I'm not sure how well...
00:31.17brlcadreally begs for a birail
00:33.06yukonbobspeaking of primitives (and procedures) -- what's the preferred way to implement these things, "ideally"? via C, or is Tcl "just as good"?
00:35.16brlcadit takes 10 seconds to make the box, you can spend the rest of a day refining/replacing the box
00:35.36starseekerOh, I made the box
00:35.40yukonbobheh
00:35.53starseekerActually it would be two boxes...
00:35.54yukonbob"imagine this is a 64 1/2 mustang"
00:36.35starseekerAh, no ;-)
00:56.55CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30431 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: need breplicator and opennurbs included in the dist
01:23.56yukonbobstarseeker: so, is a standard steel wheel, or an aftermarket wheel?
01:24.42starseekerheh - if I were doing the actual model and not faking a real car, it would have to be plastic
01:43.16yukonbobah -- you're modelling a plastic scale-model of a mustang ;)
01:43.20yukonbobwhat year, btw?
01:59.03starseekernot sure - guesses range about 67-68
02:00.22louipchehe do you remember the video of the impeller being machined?
02:00.55starseekerYes, that was cool :-)
02:01.35louipcyeah I'd love to get into stuff like that
02:02.06starseekerIsn't that more in the linuxcnc/gcam side of things?
02:02.44louipcyeah I work in cnc
02:03.16louipcbut much more basic stuff
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13:56.06``Erikhehehe "clbuttic"
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22:34.18``Erik<PROTECTED>
22:37.56CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30432 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Mods to update the raytrace control panel's size entry. Other mods to keep the raytrace control panel on top.
22:38.42CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30433 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/ (libtcl/libtcl.vcproj libtclcad/libtclcad.vcproj): Added inline definition.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080227

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02:57.39IriX64any word on 7.12.0?
02:59.54brlcadRSN, almost freeze time
03:03.24IriX64looking forward to it
03:13.01TwingyOS/2
03:13.27IriX64heh heres a thought, brlcad *is my os :)
03:15.30brlcadIriX64: ubuntu, gentoo, open solaris ..
03:16.37IriX64all user friendly i take it
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06:31.23CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30434 10/brlcad/trunk/include/fb.h: looks like unistd.h is actually not needed any more
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18:59.45yukonbobhrmm -- /me can't figure out what "page up" equiv is on this mac... can't read screen'd irssi backlog :P
19:03.54brlcadyukonbob: /sb goto [-+]##
19:04.24brlcade.g. /sb goto -50
19:04.44yukonbobmm -- good idea.
19:05.53brlcadthere's a way to bind that to keys, but I forget the syntax
19:22.21yukonbobheh -- /me just used up-arrow and /sb [foo]
19:24.08brlcadthat's tty settings before you run irssi
19:24.30brlcaddunno if there's a way to change it once inside irssi, but outside, stty erase ^?
19:24.49brlcadOS X doesn't have focus-follows-mouse
19:24.54brlcadbut there is a setting for Terminal
19:25.24brlcaddefaults write com.apple.Terminal FocusFollowsMouse -string YES
19:26.02yukonbobnice -- /me might have to set that up on his the gf's powerbook
19:26.14yukonbobs/his the/the/
20:37.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30435 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/BRL-CAD.bib: Add technical report reference.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080228

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080228

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08:50.03CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30436 10/brlcad/trunk/ (319 files in 48 dirs): (log message trimmed)
08:50.04CIA-32BRL-CAD: Add a new bio.h private wrapper header for consistently defining native and
08:50.04CIA-32BRL-CAD: standard I/O interfaces provided via stdio.h, unistd.h, io.h, and fcntl.h.
08:50.05CIA-32BRL-CAD: remove the 300+ instances of a HAVE_UNISTD_H block throughout with a simple
08:50.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: include of bio.h. this change was also motivated by the need to remove all of
08:50.11CIA-32BRL-CAD: the header includes from the windows-specific config_win32.h (so that winsock2.h
08:50.13CIA-32BRL-CAD: can be included before windows.h cleanly). of course, needs windows testing and
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14:04.12``ErikX11.app has a setting for sloppy focus, but it doesn't work with non-X windows
14:04.37``Erik"wm_ffm"
14:43.53CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30437 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: Finished the pixel selection feature.
14:50.04clock_Has anyone already looked into the pathological case where rendering is 210x slower than normally?
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19:07.45IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/sucess.png   <---- got it to go :)
19:08.50IriX64err success
20:50.10brlcadthe comments are about as interesting as the poll
20:51.03brlcadwhich I suppose are all for the 'Other' option
20:51.54yukonbobis that a derogatory comment?  -- /me thinks the poll is kinda silly, but the comments are somewhat interesting (not necessarily for their content, but what they reflect deomgraphically)
20:52.27brlcadnot in the least
20:53.16brlcadit is an interesting poll, ableit highly undersampled so easily biased towards any language with the right posting
20:54.08``Erikholy crap that's a lot of tcl
20:54.12yukonbobah -- not sure... like I said the poll is a bit like "which is better, emacs or vi?", and it's been discussed here too, that the language itself often limited not by it's syntax/capabilities, but the component between the keyboard-and-chair...
20:54.20brlcadi mean, ask a thousand web application developers what their favorite scripting language is vs asking a thousand sys admins and I'd bet you'd get totally different answers
20:55.47yukonbobis true - but I'm assuming this is "general" kind of sample, geared to Linux users obviously -- I was there looking for details on an article I browsed off the rack (wmctrl), and found that poll... was surprised by Tcl's representationo...
20:57.29brlcadyeah
20:58.33brlcadthough for as many scripting languages are represented, to have 7 big names, and then leave out one that is undoubtedly higher than the rest kinda makes it a blatent ommission worth commenting on
20:58.47brlcadthat or some tcl group got wind of the poll and are biasing the comments
20:59.26brlcador ar the only "Other" responders that are following the instruction (to comment below) ;)
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21:16.41CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30438 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
21:16.41CIA-32BRL-CAD: Bob fixed a bug in the X11 framebuffer interface where it would cause the entire
21:16.41CIA-32BRL-CAD: X11 display to go black or not depending on whether the framebuffer window had
21:16.41CIA-32BRL-CAD: focus or not. this issue was related to a problem with the visual type and
21:16.42CIA-32BRL-CAD: colormapping where a bad visual was being selected. now it selects a
21:16.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: truecolorvisual (instead of directcolor iirc).
21:18.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30439 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: like the X framebuffer type, Bob added the same functionality to the ogl framebuffer where the user can query the color value underneath the cursor by right-clicking in the framebuffer window.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080229

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080229

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01:20.42CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30440 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/Dm.tcl: gah, merge a fix made for 7.10.4 on the stable branch that didn't make its way back to the trunk. this fix makes the Dm class not blindly try to open :0 but instead checks what env(DISPLAY) is set to.
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04:13.03minusinskhello
04:13.23minusinskhere only english-speakers?
04:13.52louipcmostly
04:14.08minusinskno russians?
04:15.26louipcI don't think so
04:15.45minusinskBrlcad have a non-english language localisation and internationalization?
04:17.04louipchmm doesn't look like it
04:17.28minusinskIs it possible to convert the programme into other languages?
04:18.07louipcof course. it might take a lot of work though
04:18.42louipcyou'd have to patch gettext functionality in the apps or something
04:23.13minusinsksomebody need do it :)
04:23.56louipcyea :D
04:25.25louipcdocs would be better to translate first though
04:25.27minusinskwho can? Who is Master Yoda? :)
04:26.03louipcwell there are people that have the skills but are too busy doing other things
04:26.26minusinskdocs.. maybe i can in Russian, but i'm not a engeneer-constructor
04:26.43louipcdid you go to brlcad.org?
04:26.55minusinskyeah, i did
04:26.55louipcthere are pdfs there
04:27.16minusinskpdf is not good for edit
04:27.27louipc... there are also manpages when you install the program
04:27.36minusinskodf is more better
04:27.48louipcodf eh?
04:28.02louipcminusinsk: well some people are trying to convert everything to docbook
04:28.10louipcxml
04:28.18minusinskOpen Document Format ISO/IEC 26300
04:28.22louipcah
04:28.37minusinskit's xml too
04:29.34louipcit's not really meant for conversion to different formats though eh?
04:30.51minusinskOpenOffice have a many formats for export from odf
04:33.25louipccool
04:37.49minusinskexport to BibTeX, LaTeX2, mediaWiki, pdf, and much more office formats
04:38.34minusinskok, i will try translate docs from pdf to odf and translete them
04:38.49louipccool!
04:38.49minusinskin my language
04:39.00louipcthat's a huge task
04:39.04minusinskit's first
04:39.32minusinskafter that need support UTF-8 for Brlcad
04:39.44minusinskit's jobfor programmers
04:39.56louipcyep
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05:13.37yukonbobminusinsk: BRL-CAD might already have support, depending on how it's necessary... Tcl was one of the first (the first?) cross-platform languages w/ UTF support, and has good i18n support...
05:19.36minusinski'm remember that UTF-8 is in TCL/TK only few time
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05:23.00yukonbobminusinsk: there are also two large documents converted to DocBook format... you can retrieve them via svn (not sure if they're shipping in any distribution)... DocBook is the format that the project is using for the documentation.
05:23.53minusinskok, i can imported them
05:24.39starseekerI would suggest first translating the text (which you should be able to get out of the pdf) and then integrating that with the docbook markup once it becomes available
05:24.50yukonbob~cadsvn
05:24.51ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
05:25.09minusinsktnx
05:25.26yukonbobhey starseeker
05:25.30starseekerhowdy :-)
05:26.01louipcyukonbob: those pdfs are all done !?
05:26.07louipcI mean to docbook
05:26.13starseekernot yet
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05:26.27louipcah I was going to say nice job yo!
05:26.41starseekerIIRC, vol 4 is pretty far along, vol 2 is (sort of) started and vol 3 is on the todo list
05:26.46yukonboblouipc: no -- I've done volume iv, starseeker did one(?), and there's more to do... we had a _big_ push a whlie ago, but nothing lately :)
05:26.51louipcvol2 is a doosie
05:27.29starseekerNow that I'm getting more docbook and tool experience (xmlto + fop = goodness)
05:27.39starseekerI SHOULD be able to better convert vol2
05:28.06starseekerMuch of the markup in vol2 will probably need to be re-done, but it's a start
05:28.56yukonbobstarseeker: what kind of data?
05:29.10starseekerUS Geologic Survey geologic information
05:29.44starseekerOddly enough, there seems to be some halfway decent DLG stuff
05:29.53starseekerwhich will take forever and a day to download...
05:30.35starseekerI had to ignore a robot file, which meant I'm throttling the download speed down to next to nothing so as not to annoy anyone
05:30.49starseekerDigital Line graph
05:30.50yukonbobhrm -- http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/28/2339246
05:31.46starseekerThat's "it's too unstable for just anyone to use, so we'll hammer on it and at the same time get good App performance for Apple apps."
05:32.10starseekerUnlike MS, there is a quasi-realistic hope that Apple's software will achieve stability inside the decade...
05:32.45yukonbobstarseeker: re DLG -- what are you using it for?
05:33.06starseekeryukonbob:  Nothing in particular at the moment - might try giving GRASS a workout
05:33.07louipchehe
05:34.00starseekeryukonbob:  All sorts of neat Google-like map visualizations that might be tried, given proper tool knowledge
05:34.20starseekeryukonbob:  Not remotely BRL-CAD related though...
05:36.48brlcadyukonbob: read the comment from David Hyatt
05:37.15brlcadit's really a stupid /. posting, sensationalist crap
05:37.31brlcadthere's more down in the /. comments
05:39.59starseekerbrlcad:  Just curious - has anyone ever tried doing anything with BRL-CAD + GIS data?
05:40.34starseeker+ BRL-CAD?
05:41.17brlcadDSP is a brl-cad primitive type
05:41.21brlcadso yes :)
05:41.27yukonbobyup -- DSP == displacement map in BRL-CAD... DEM = digital elevation model
05:41.32brlcadhttp://my.brlcad.org/tmp/puget01.png is an example
05:41.37starseekerer...
05:41.51starseekers/?/!
05:42.09starseekerThat's cool
05:42.13brlcadthat's the high-res puget de data
05:43.25starseekerWhat DEM # corresponds to that high res?  
05:43.31brlcadthat's the 16k x 16k data from http://www.cc.gatech.edu/projects/large_models/ps.html
05:44.20brlcadwhere they'd already extracted from dem, conveniently in a format nearly ideal for dsp
05:44.40brlcadshoulda applied the texture too, but was just playing around
05:44.47yukonbobstarseeker: there's other info that could be used easily -- for example, png "height shade" images (I believe that's what they're called) -- _not_ to be confused w/ "shade slope" models, though, which might look the same at first glance...
05:45.32yukonbobbrlcad: any luck tracking that mem leak wrt dsp?
05:49.45brlcadhaven't looked at it :(
05:49.51brlcadbut keep kicking me, I will
05:50.17yukonbob:)
05:51.54biketronanyone have any luck using brl-cad on mac osx leopard?
05:53.03brlcadbiketron: the X11 server in leopard is busted ..
05:53.53biketronugh..
05:53.59brlcadapple's got a fix in the works, but it was outright broken when they switched to X.org's R7
05:55.09biketroneta on the fix?
05:57.16yukonbobas soon as it's finished, but no sooner?
05:57.46biketron:)
05:58.10yukonbob:)
05:58.59yukonbobis it reasonable to (temporarily?) install X from fink or similar? (Some Mac-head can comment whether that even really makes sense)...
05:59.34louipcmac ports?
05:59.54yukonbobya -- whatever -- as long as you can use X w/o clobbering the 'native' install...
05:59.56louipchttp://www.macports.org/
06:00.14louipcI don't know anything about mac *shrug*
06:03.49yukonbobnothing to know. Push the single button mouse and your screen smiles at you.  Mac folks are easy to amuse.
06:14.24brlcadyukonbob: i don't know of anyone that has tried and I don't have easy access to 10.5 atm
06:16.46brlcad10.4's X11 works just fine ;)
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10:08.03cad76hello i would like to ask how to start the program after instalation?
10:08.21clock_cad76: mged
10:08.56clock_actually better mged test.g otherwise it will yell it doesn't have any database open when you try to create some body
10:11.54cad76terminal says - command not found
10:12.13clock_updatedb
10:12.15clock_locate mged
10:15.20cad76i will try to reinstall :)
10:16.27cad76thank you
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10:37.58Axman6clock_: isn't it nice when people listen to you?
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15:09.51``Erikheh
15:32.07``ErikGive a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. But light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
15:36.09elite01hehe :)
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17:42.53brlcadc'mon baby light my fire
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21:05.40CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30441 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 5 dirs): Add -d option to MGED tree command for limiting depth of tree printing.
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22:54.49``Erikw00t, upgrade on the new bz took
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16:11.24Maloeran*sobs* Erik, where did your comics page go?
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19:00.37``Erikthe school broke it, mal
19:00.40``ErikI'm moving it to b
19:00.41``Erikbz
19:02.08``Erikwhich means de-linuxing some crap
19:05.39``Eriktry http://bz.bzflag.bz/~erik/comics/ and let me know if anything's weird
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22:17.35brlcadlooks good to me :)
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08:22.36CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30442 10/brlcad/trunk/db/Makefile.am: keep getting parallel build problems where the exec test fails saying asc2g doesn't exist yet. try syncing the filesystem and if it does still fail, print what ls shows
08:45.43CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30443 10/brlcad/trunk/db/Makefile.am:
08:45.43CIA-32BRL-CAD: the more I think about it, the failure makes sense. the asc2g wrapper is
08:45.43CIA-32BRL-CAD: kicking off a compilation which causes a failure when another proc tries to use
08:45.43CIA-32BRL-CAD: the script mid-compilation. it is either deleted or is getting set -x during
08:45.43CIA-32BRL-CAD: compilation. hopefully this prep phase will make it behave.
08:57.53CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30444 10/brlcad/trunk/Makefile.am: (log message trimmed)
08:57.53CIA-32BRL-CAD: add a distcheck and install check to make sure that the tclIndex and
08:57.53CIA-32BRL-CAD: pkgIndex.tcl files aren't empty. there are some configurations generating empty
08:57.53CIA-32BRL-CAD: files when the auto_paths are not set up correctly. the installs will seem to
08:57.53CIA-32BRL-CAD: be just fine .. but are actually rather busted and will result in a variety of
08:57.55CIA-32BRL-CAD: screwy run-time tcl failures when trying to use any of those routines. also
08:57.57CIA-32BRL-CAD: make elapsed.sh use top_srcdir for the DATE file since it's a BUILT_SOURCES
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14:03.20*** join/#brlcad reinoud (n=reinoud@a82-93-219-45.adsl.xs4all.nl)
14:03.43reinoudhello folks
14:04.02reinoud<-- newbie to brlcad; trying to get it compiled under NetBSD
14:06.22reinoudIs there still a moderator for the news group? I got a reply that the moderator's email adress was bounced and thus i couldn't post; no wonder the news group was empty :-S
14:28.45*** join/#brlcad marco_antonio (i=marco@190.1.5.98)
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15:14.30brlcadreinoud: there is a moderator for the news group, but you shouldn't be posting to the news list :)
15:15.00brlcadit's outbound-only, there is a brlcad-users and brlcad-devel mailing list
15:15.10reinoudah that explains
15:16.35reinoudswitching chat-program
15:16.37*** part/#brlcad reinoud (n=reinoud@a82-93-219-45.adsl.xs4all.nl)
15:17.13brlcado.O
16:04.01CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30445 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
16:04.03CIA-32BRL-CAD: bob, erik, and myself have all failed at reproducing the mged text flood hanging
16:04.05CIA-32BRL-CAD: so the problem was either a ScrolledText widget Tk bug that was fixed with the
16:04.07CIA-32BRL-CAD: upgrade to Tk 8.5 or it's sensitive to timing issues and isn't easy to provoke
16:04.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: on fast machines. needs to be revisited on a slow machine, but that doesn't
16:04.11CIA-32BRL-CAD: need to hold up the release.
16:34.06*** part/#brlcad marco_antonio (i=marco@190.1.5.98)
16:58.42*** join/#brlcad niemand (i=terrylr@maria-enzersdorf.blauedonau.com)
16:59.03niemandanyone here
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17:02.23alex_joniniemand: niemand hier
17:02.48starseekerAnd that's how we learn not to attempt opening a huge tiff file without enough swap space
17:04.54niemandalex_joni, hello, how goes it?
17:06.38terrylralex_joni, has sean/brlcad been around lately?
17:07.27alex_jonioh, hi terrylr, didn't know it was you
17:07.38alex_joniyeah, sean/brlcad is usually around through the day
17:08.00terrylralex_joni, long time no read.
17:08.13alex_joniindeed.. how are you feeling?
17:09.21terrylralex_joni, i guess i am feeling okay. i live on morphine.
17:10.02alex_jonisorry to hear that :/
17:25.32brlcadhowdy terrylr
17:28.59terrylrbrlcad, hello, long time no read.
17:30.46terrylrbrlcad,  last 6 aug 2007, i was in a head-on-collision accident. not my fault. i spent 2 wks in icu and 6 wks in rehabilation. since then trying to learn how to walk again. my injuries were: left hip broken, left femur broken in 5 places, right knee cap shattered, right tibia and fibia compound fracture, 4 broken ribs right side, right lung collapsed. the emts had to reboot me several times before they could get me stable enough to remo
17:30.46terrylrve from the accident scene. haivng two broken legs is not fun. i do not get down to the computers that often anymore. i get around in a wheelchair so i tend to stick to the main floor of the house.
17:40.12brlcadyikes, and 'ouch' really sorry to hear that..
17:41.01brlcadwas wondering where you had disappeared to
17:42.01brlcadyou were disabled before that as well, iirc .. talk about kicking a man when he's down
17:43.31brlcadterrylr: in any regard, glad to hear that through all that you are still around -- a couple folks have been in asking about some of the work you were doing, where things got left off at
17:44.04brlcadeep
17:54.24alex_jonibrlcad: don't think so.. he left from other channels aswell..
17:55.12``Erikmost irc clients send a disconnect before closing the socket if the window is closed or they take a sigterm...
17:57.01brlcador.. he was so upset that he ran over the power cord with his chair as he angrily wheeled off
17:57.34``Erikprobably more likely that he did something silly like run windows or linux and it crashed out from under him O:-) *shrug*
17:57.45``Eriksuckass luck though, poor guy
17:57.54brlcadyeah, amazing
17:58.32louipclinux is pretty stable at least for me
17:58.46brlcadpresuming it's not a sucker story, .. cause you know everything on the net is true .. but he's been pretty consistent regardless
17:59.57brlcadterrylr could very well be a 13 year old girl fbi agent
18:00.30*** join/#brlcad terrylr (i=terrylr@maria-enzersdorf.blauedonau.com)
18:00.34brlcadthere he be
18:00.35louipc12:58 <@brlcad> terrylr could very well be a 13 year old girl fbi agent
18:00.44brlcad:)
18:00.53terrylrsorry, more hardware failures.
18:01.17terrylrlouipc, why don't you go play in the street!
18:01.33terrylrlouipc, a busy street!
18:02.00louipcwith cars?
18:02.12terrylri have been plagued by hardware failures the past month.
18:02.32terrylrlouipc, yes with vehicles.
18:02.47brlcadhopefully not the one your sitting in or any attached to you!
18:04.11terrylrmy trusty old standbys strauss and johann, both lost their hda disk. strauss's motherboard has bad ide controllers now. johann, is just plain old. close to 9 yrs old.
18:05.11terrylri missed what you were asking before. not sure if the logs caught it. hang on let me look.
18:06.11brlcadI've heard of pets mirroring their owners, but not their computer equipment  (bad bad joke *ahem* .. should probably ask if you're sensitive to jokes or take it in stride!)
18:06.40brlcadI'd just said that I'm glad to hear that you're still around
18:07.37brlcadsome progress and developments on the BREP and STEP fronts since you were last around (moreso on the prior than the latter) -- both being the #1 project priority (at ARL and otherwise) for the year
18:07.45terrylri do not care one way or the other. i have pretty much lost interest in the computers. i have no money to keep them going and basically just watching each one die.
18:08.22terrylrto answer your questions from before .
18:08.54terrylryes, i was disabled before the 6 aug 2007 accident, from the 26 nov 1996 accident.
18:09.24terrylrsince 1996, i have been able to work a combined total of two years.
18:09.54terrylri now have two legal nightmares the 26 nov 1996 work accident and the 6 aug 2007 head-on-collision.
18:10.24terrylrit appears that both legal nightmares are going to be merged into one super legal nightmare.
18:10.48terrylrthe medical bills just keep piling up. currently at $550,000.00 usd.
18:12.57brlcadincredible
18:13.35brlcadso what are your plans?
18:13.57terrylrso here is what is happening with legal nightmares. 1996 legal nightmare. even though i have never received any money since i have a december 2006 ruling which awards $500,000.00 usd the medical providers want that money. the individual liable for the accident has $250,000.00 usd per accident coverage. so $750,000.00 usd combined. medical providers get $550,000.00 usd lawyers get $175,000.00 usd and the remaining $25,000.00 usd is put i
18:13.58terrylrn escrow to cover my ongoing medical expenses.
18:14.16brlcadi can only imagine that you had to of "given up" by now .. i probably would have..
18:14.27terrylrbrlcad, so i am worst off than before.
18:15.09brlcadi gathered as much .. i can't imagine how you'd be in an accident and actually get better off..
18:15.31brlcadmm. otherwise people would be volunteering to do it
18:15.32terrylrbrlcad, i spend my days in the wheelchair or bed. i try using the walker but the legs are just PAINFUL!
18:16.29terrylrbrlcad, my interests are in the metalworking occupational therapy group and cooking/baking. tinsmithing.
18:17.10brlcadneat
18:17.19terrylrbrlcad, tinsmithing is something i can do while in the wheelchair. i do not need the leverage that standing would allow me.
18:19.54brlcadsounds pretty relaxing though, am at least quite familiar with working with ones hands and making things -- that can be quite fulfilling
18:20.54terrylrbrlcad, btw, on top of the two legal nightmare accidents. back in the beginning of 2006 i quit smokiung. turns out i am hte one in a billion person who once they started smoking should nver quit. when i quit smoking. a defective genetic defect was triggered on. an extremely rare genetic disease. familial erythromelalgia. my brother has had it for 25+yrs. his doctors assumed that one of his brothers may also carry the same defect. well g
18:20.54terrylruess what they were right.
18:22.17brlcadthat sucks
18:22.44brlcadboth that you *started* smoking and that you stopped, if that was the trigger
18:23.01terrylrnow the real kicker. since the 6 aug 2007 head-on-collision and having to be rebooted several times at the accident scene. the familial erythromelalgia has been in total remission. has the doctors baffled.
18:23.19brlcadheh
18:23.59terrylrbrlcad, the doctros are 99.99 % sure that quitting smoking triggered the defective gene on.
18:24.00brlcadmaybe it's just thinking "wtf, I'm outta here .. this is messed up"
18:25.08brlcadso you going to be around more often, or just a stop by to visit?
18:25.18terrylrbut anyway, today was the warmest day in months and i was able to get down to the computers. just thought i would touch bas with you.
18:25.28brlcadthat's cool
18:26.08brlcadif you happen to recall where you left off with the step work and/or have files handy, I'd love to get a peek/copy sometime :)
18:26.54terrylrbrlcad, most of my work has been lost with the harddrive failures of strauss and johann.
18:27.13brlcaddamn them and their vile tonal failures
18:27.56brlcadwell if you happen to run across a copy or a backup .. you know where to find me :)
18:28.14terrylrbrlcad, part of the reason i have lost interest in the computers . i have lost too much and do not have it in me to recreate it.
18:28.38terrylrbusy trying to learn to walk again.
18:28.44brlcadwe did finally get a means to get the step spec in pdf format (just recently finished actually) .. *finally*
18:29.07terrylrgood move in the right direction.
18:29.42brlcadyeah, that took quite a bit of effort to set up, but then once I got some equipment in place it was pretty quick n' easy
18:29.52terrylrbrb comfort break.
18:30.40brlcadso now I can set up a means to share the pdf's under some non-redistribute arrangement with folks working on brl-cad (since ISO still close-holds it as IP)
18:34.17louipchah what's the point of step if it isn't publicly accessible?
18:35.02brlcadthe entire CAD industry outside of brl-cad is very much a traditional closed industry
18:35.07brlcadyou pay to participate
18:35.17brlcadand pretty much every single major CAD company has
18:35.49Z80-Boyclosed source conservative narrowminded
18:35.52louipcI figured it'd be more open if they were getting ISO involved
18:36.39brlcadpaying the thousands for the relevant portions of the iso spec is pennies when a single license to your product costs more than that (and most of your CAD devs cost 500-1000% that)
18:37.01Z80-BoyI always laugh at "standards" that are for money
18:37.20Z80-BoyThe idea is that everyone should adhere to it, not only the ones that are willing to pay those money, or not?
18:37.33Z80-Boyotherwise it's not a standard just a piece of paper ;-)
18:37.53Z80-Boyplus makes code audit difficult
18:38.04louipcwell it is a standard if all the big boys use it
18:38.13brlcadyep
18:38.16Z80-Boyif a student wants to audit he has to buy the standard to understand how the code should properly behave
18:38.22louipceven if the regular joe doesn't have access to it
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18:39.34brlcadit's like going to an office and saying "everyone must pay me 2 pennies for a license to use the bathroom" .. it might be absurd especially given pretty much everyone will *have* to pay the fee, but in the end what do you think everyone would do .. they'd cough up the 2 pennies without hesitation
18:39.59brlcadthey don't care if people outside the building haven't paid .. or if for them 2 pennies is a month's salary
18:40.08brlcadthey're not in the building, not apart of their business
18:40.42Z80-BoyI guess he would be just ignored with his bathroom licence
18:40.52Z80-Boyor receive some fists into his face for bullying
18:40.58louipcpiss in the penny jar
18:40.59louipc;)
18:41.07brlcadhehe
18:41.16brlcadsome do, even for step
18:41.24brlcadbut they still put their two pennies in
18:41.45alex_jonibefore or after?
18:42.08Z80-Boyi would flush the penny jar contents down the toilet
18:43.11Z80-Boyit's interesting how free standards are often technically superior to the closed one
18:43.15Z80-BoyPNG vs. GIF
18:43.24Z80-BoyOgg Vorbis vs. mp3
18:44.01brlcadit's more like an electronic penny-lock on the bathroom that won't open without a penny, you can't get at the money or otherwise vadalize it other than pissing on the walls or crapping in the elevator (at which point they just remove you from the building)
18:45.21brlcadeh, not a great example .. for all of its technical "superiority", vorbis has made absolutely no dent in mp3 dominance
18:45.59brlcadpng's faired better but just because there wasn't a format that fulfilled the requirements (lossless compressed truecolor imagery)
18:46.20PrezKennedypng really cant be compared to gif...
18:46.43Z80-Boythat's because the crap always dominates
18:46.45brlcadi think it just goes to show that technical superiority has nothing to do with prevalence and popularity if anything
18:46.53Z80-Boymp3 is more crap than vorbis, therefore must dominate
18:46.56PrezKennedymaybe to jpg... but even there they fulfill two different things
18:48.01brlcadyeah, has more to do with their usage than their technical features -- most users couldn't care less so long as the tools are integrated and easy to use
18:48.53Z80-Boylook how crappy the youtube videos are and how popular they are
18:52.15louipcyeah lets make a better site!
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19:56.57brlcadyeah, C and C++ have done .. pretty well .. considering they are ansi and iso standards
19:59.22brlcad``Erik: you have any uncommited show-stoppers?
19:59.28brlcadsmells like a release brewing
20:04.28brlcad(or anyone else for that matter :) )
20:24.08yukonbobheh -- that sounds pretty bad in pretty much any other context :P
20:33.20brlcadhehe
20:33.23brlcadso true
21:54.24*** join/#brlcad forrestv (n=forrestv@unaffiliated/forrestv)
22:01.09forrestvdoes anyone know what libbu/vfont.c is?
22:01.37brlcadyes? :)
22:01.49brlcadit's a vector font interface
22:04.23brlcadreads in old vfont files and gives you back a vfont struct that can then be used for drawing the vector fonts to a given context
22:04.46brlcadi.e., very basic font support for things that need the ability to render fonts quickly to any given output context type
22:08.47forrestvbrlcad: is it related to an 'ASCII vfont text'?
22:09.40brlcadforrestv: in what context?
22:09.45brlcadsounds related
22:10.13brlcadvfont was predominantly ascii iirc
22:13.46forrestvbrlcad: i searched google for the file output of an old font file (of an old game) that i'm trying to read and that file came up first
22:14.29brlcadforrestv: it used to be the standard font file format (go back 20+ years)
22:14.44brlcadwe have a couple sample files
22:14.59forrestvbrlcad: ya nonie.r.12
22:15.08brlcadyeah, and fix.6r
22:15.11brlcadhttp://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/src/vfont/
22:16.05brlcadi believe the libbu and vfont routines do the same for reading the font, haven't looked into merging them yet .. kinda low priority ;)
22:16.25brlcadthere are examples of using them in src/fbed and src/lgt
22:18.13brlcadnot the best screenshot, but if you look at the lower-left graphical panel in http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg .. there are vfonts in action at the bottom in that display where it says sz=152.449 mm, ....
23:38.13louipcls
23:41.43brlcad-bash: ls: command not found
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080303

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080303

00:01.15*** join/#brlcad forrestv (n=forrestv@unaffiliated/forrestv)
00:45.35brlcadforrestv: did that answer your question?
00:51.19forrestvbrlcad: yes, thanks. i have realized that this font is not actually a vector font though :) . i'm still working on reverse engineering it.
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04:53.30brlcadheh
04:54.03starseekerLooks like it's a bit under 5 gigs - not unreasonable in this day and age
04:58.50starseekerThe main USGS files present more of a problem - they only seem to be available through various web interfaces - it would take a project to create a mirror from that
06:11.29brlcadyeah, I think that's the data I snarfed at one point .. it was pretty big
06:11.44brlcadi might have deleted it though, have to dig for it
06:12.45brlcaddon't recall it being hard to pull, just took a couple weeks (throttled)
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10:58.48*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release 7.12.0 coming soon to a desktop near you
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14:27.44CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r30446 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (bio.h config_win.h): moved some windows.h related undefs from config_win.h to bio.h
14:28.07*** join/#brlcad terrylr (i=terrylr@maria-enzersdorf.blauedonau.com)
14:28.17brlcadwas wondering how much I broke with bio.h
14:30.09d_rossbergbrlcad: much
14:30.51CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r30447 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): include the new bio.h where necessary
14:39.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r30448 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (152 files in 2 dirs):
14:39.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: unfortunately raytrace.h needs windows.h (on a Win32 platform) but bio.h has to be included right after the system includes, therefore it can not be included in raytrace.h (this would be to late)
14:39.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: this are the changes for the core libraries only, there are certainly more in other libraries necessary
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15:03.05brlcadeep
15:04.44brlcadsorry about that d_rossberg
15:05.29brlcadwhat exactly did raytrace.h need from bio.h?
15:06.55brlcadbob's not been in for a couple days so haven't had him on hand to test/fix
15:29.18d_rossbergwin32 processs handles in struct run_rt (actually a pointer to "something")
15:30.19brlcadjust kicked off a win32 compile .. first time in months..  I'll see if I can weed out some of the problems :)
15:30.49brlcad(albeit vc8)
15:31.12brlcadwe're getting close to release if things look stable
15:31.54brlcadah.. hit the raytrace.h problem
15:33.19brlcadhm, that smells like a private struct
15:38.29d_rossbergif you have found a solution, maybe you can undo my last commit (only the last one!)
15:38.51d_rossbergit was all about raytrace.h
15:40.56brlcadyeah, though I think it's safe, i.e. not wasted effort
15:41.24brlcadbut I think the problem is in raytrace.h
15:41.56brlcadlooks like a half-dozen WIN32's have crept into some of the public headers that probably shouldn't be there, testing removal of one now
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15:42.23brlcadthen i'll look at the run_rt struct later today
15:42.43brlcad(it'll take it a while to fully rebuild/test and I have a meeting coming up) ;)
15:46.39d_rossbergno problem, time to go is near
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23:29.28starseekerAnyone have any experience with Cavalry external hard drives?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080304

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080304

02:37.55brlcadnope
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06:32.38Z80-BoyMy infamous model: Frame  0:    4720128 rays   in  26011.79 sec =       181.46 rays/sec (wallclock)
06:32.46Z80-BoyAnd that's a COre 2 Duo 2.2 GHz
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08:00.45clock_hi all
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11:34.52brlcadwow, that is incredibly slow
11:38.47clock_brlcad: I hope you can look at the model which causes this and see the cause
11:38.53clock_now I am leaving for lunch sorry
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13:39.18illethalHello fellow humans of Earth!
13:41.11``Erikheh
13:41.19``Erikno hello for me, illethal? *cry* :D
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15:16.58CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r30449 10/brlcad/trunk/src/irprep/Makefile.am: put irdisp neatly under WITH_X11 condition
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15:51.55``Erikquit pissing peer off, dude, he'll jack you up
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15:56.45clock_brlcad: yes I have 118 pixels per second
15:57.00clock_brlcad: it's the strange model that causes 210x slowdown
15:57.28clock_http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/headcut.g object name headcut
15:58.59brlcadclock_: I'm aware of the model, and had looked at it
15:59.02brlcadand commented on it
15:59.08brlcador have you forgotten?? :)
15:59.17``Erikneat, bus error
15:59.20clock_I faintly remember you have commented on it
15:59.22clock_but not what you said
15:59.30clock_A fact is it's still hell slow
15:59.36clock_is it gonna stay this slow?
16:00.44brlcadit's slow for several reasons -- the biggest of which relates to how it's modeled -- you can get the same shape with a different hierarchy and probably get back much of the performance
16:00.49brlcadyou're more than 210x slower
16:00.55brlcadyou're mixing two different issues
16:01.30clock_can't the program transform the hierarchy into the more efficient one automatically?
16:01.42``Erikcuz that's insanely complex to do?
16:01.49brlcadclock_: go for it
16:02.21brlcad:)
16:02.22clock_So now I have to do a insanely complex thing with my model to get back some of the performance?
16:02.41``Erikinsanely complex to automate correctly
16:02.58clock_how should I change the hierarchy?
16:03.09``Erikif we could do that reasonably, we could also convert polygon soup to csg reasonably
16:04.36brlcadusually just balancing the csg tree will do wonders particularly if it's deep
16:05.05brlcadbut the better opt involves looking at the shapes and bounding boxes of the shapes being used
16:05.05clock_No it's shallow
16:05.07clock_like 3 or 4
16:05.32brlcader, not that I recall..
16:06.22brlcadgah, it's hard as heck to chat right now
16:06.30brlcadisp is being attacked
16:06.34``Erikwell, it may be disguised
16:06.51``Erikif you, say, union 16 things all together at once, it looks like one level, but it's actually at least 3
16:07.10``Eriker, 5
16:07.32clock_But it has a lot of things in one node
16:07.36``Erikthe actual csg structure is all leaf, unary or binary
16:07.38brlcadand depending on the ops and the way they're input, you might even end up with 16 levels
16:08.00clock_Balancing a tree isn't an insanely complex operation
16:08.11clock_It has the insane complexity of second year of the university
16:08.14``Erikbut it's an ordered tree
16:08.25clock_what's an ordered tree?
16:08.26``Erikif you change the order or even position, you change the semantic
16:08.47clock_not for unions
16:09.04brlcadclock_: so then seriously .. code it up, you're being given the simple explanation just for sake of explaining it
16:09.04clock_not for logical ANDs
16:09.26``Erikok, imagine if you have, say, a union, then you use that union to cut from another object, that makes one shape... but if you cut, then union, say through a tree balancing, it's the same operations, but you get a different shape
16:09.48clock_I have an impression now that BRL-CAD contains some kind of simple straightforward unoptimized implementation that goes off on heavily unbalanced trees
16:09.52``Erikand I think for simple union, we do balance?
16:10.44brlcadclock_: actually the csg processing is *heavily* optimized, one of the tightest you'll find anywhere
16:10.56brlcadbut in this particular instance, there is other stuff going on
16:11.20``Erikthe next step in optimizing is worth a fair number of doctorates, I'd imagine :/
16:11.22brlcadseveral issues, one being the construction hierarchy, other issues being the bounding volumes iirc
16:11.40clock_Do I imagine CSG correctly as firing a ray, intersecting with all primitives their bounding boxes the ray hits, and then finding the first visible intersect according to the logical operations?
16:11.44``Erikperhaps np complete, even
16:12.21clock_My scene has no reason to be difficult
16:12.28clock_It's a stack of cylindrical slices
16:12.36clock_and the stack is cut in half with a large primitive
16:12.42brlcadclock_: no, it's considerably more complex than that -- there is spatial partitioning to determine which bounding boxes to test against
16:12.46clock_Every cylindrical slice has a tiny bounding box
16:13.00brlcadif you did what you suggest of "intersecting with all primitives their bounding boxes the ray hits" it would be horrendously slow
16:13.14clock_so every ray hits only through small amount of slices unless you are looking close to the axis
16:13.22brlcaddepending on how you actually determine which bounding boxes it intersects
16:13.26clock_The deadly picture isn't AFAIK looking along the axis
16:14.00``Erikwhoa
16:14.11brlcadclock_: I believe itss that large primitive that is killing it
16:14.26clock_is it so complex to calculate an intersection with a cube?
16:14.28brlcadby doing that, it basically has to evaluate every primitive every time
16:14.33``Erikdoes  'head' raytrace fast?
16:14.40clock_yes
16:14.42clock_fast as hell
16:14.44``Erik(and did anyone do a tree on head? jfc)
16:15.43clock_Or maybe the bounding boxes are evaluated too liberal?
16:15.58clock_Like saying a tiny slice of metal with a huge negative box give a bounding box of the negative box?
16:16.22``ErikFrame  0:     263441 rays   in     12.24 sec =     21527.96 rays/sec (RTFM)
16:16.25clock_For an AND it's good to at least take the bounding box of the smaller part
16:17.27``Erikdefinitely the massive boolean overload from having the slice at that position :/
16:17.46clock_I can't put the slice elsewhere sorry
16:17.57clock_The idea is to show where the bolts are going through
16:18.05``Erikwithout the cutter
16:18.06``ErikFrame  0:     262165 rays   in      0.04 sec =   6802545.46 rays/sec (RTFM)
16:18.18clock_why do you get 21527 rays and me 118?
16:18.23clock_I have 2.2GHz Core Duo
16:18.28``Erikcuz my machine is moar awesomer
16:18.31clock_What do you have?
16:18.35``Erik8 3ghz cores
16:18.41illethalThat is awesome.
16:18.44illethalOctcore?
16:18.53clock_ZX Spectrum with a secret tape of Manic Miner picked from the wreckage of US 193?
16:19.02clock_octopus
16:19.02``Eriktwo quadcore xeons, beefy mac pro
16:19.20``Erikmakes a nice footrest, too
16:19.21clock_OK
16:19.44clock_Do you understand the mechanism of the slowdown?
16:19.47``Erikif you made, say, a hundred small cutting boxes, the scnee would go much faster
16:19.48``Erikyes
16:20.07clock_why would making hundred small ones help?
16:20.25``Erikbecause right now, your big cutting box is in the tree making the bounding volume include everything
16:20.34``Erikso every single pixel must evaluate every single primitive
16:20.41``Erikand weave all of them together
16:20.51``Erikyou've effectively eliminated space partitioning
16:21.00clock_so if you have a 3mm part and cut it with a 1m cube, the bounding box inflates to 1m?
16:21.07``Erikyes
16:21.24clock_Whoa! What algorithmic motorization! Secret trick, dude: if you subtract from something, it never gets bigger
16:21.49``Erikyeah, but what if that 1m cube not only clips out part of that 3mm part, but ALSO part of the other 3mm part over there
16:22.12``Erikuntil evaluated, there's no way to know what primitives that subtraction impacts
16:22.22``ErikYOU know, because you're modelling it,but the software CANNOT know
16:22.47clock_OK jokes about pinnacle of development back let's assume it's really serious
16:23.12clock_Let's say I have a scene with zillion tiny slices and one big cube that subtracts (eats off) half of each slice
16:23.29clock_I fire a ray
16:23.49clock_Now I take one primitive after another, check it's bounding box and possibly calculate intersection
16:28.03clock_``Erik: what the software knows is that the cube is always the same cube so it doesn't have to calculate it million times
16:35.33clock_What the software also know is that zillion parts cut with one cutter equals zillion results of (part cut with the cutter)
16:36.02clock_or more precisely can know, if programmed thusly
16:38.10illethalDang how do I compile this.
16:52.18clock_illethal: do you have an error?
16:52.22illethalI type make install
16:52.26illethalbut it does nothing, I'm su.
16:52.33illethalIt says no targets.
16:52.36clock_did you do make before?
16:52.38illethalWhat directory do I have to be in?
16:52.46clock_in the toplevel brl-cad
16:52.50illethalDoesn't do anything either
16:53.19clock_What I do is unpack tgz, configure, make, make install
16:53.20clock_it works
16:53.23clock_on Linux and OpenBSD
16:53.27clock_what system do you have?
16:53.29illethalLinux
16:53.33illethalUbuntu 64
16:53.37clock_oops 64
16:53.54clock_heard that a lots of things don't work on 64
16:54.14illethalAhhhh a lot do actually.
16:54.25illethalJust Flash is meh.
16:54.40illethalnspluginwrapper crap. It works for 30 mins them breaks, then I have to recompile.
16:55.29illethalroot@valhall:/home/oden/Desktop/progs/usr# make
16:55.31illethalmake: *** No targets specified and no makefile found.  Stop.
16:55.40illethalarg
16:55.42illethalwrong dir
16:55.54illethalStill
16:55.58illethalDoesn't do anything wtf.
16:56.05clock_maybe it's a demo version
16:56.10clock_after 30 seconds you have to buy a licence?
16:56.21clock_My Firefox crashes
16:56.29clock_That's normal that Firefox is a piece of crap
16:56.34illethalEverything else works fine except flash for me.
16:56.38clock_oh 30 minutes you wrote not seconds sorry
16:56.45clock_My flash works but often crashes
16:56.58clock_And brings down the whole Firefox. It hangs and stops refreshing the window
16:56.58illethalAdobe needs to burn.
16:57.03clock_I have to kill it lose all my open tabs
16:57.15clock_Adobe is piece of crap
16:57.16illethalWhat distro you on?
16:57.22clock_Linux From Scratch
16:57.34illethalFrom Scrath?
16:57.39clock_yes
16:57.40illethalLike you made your own os?
16:57.46illethalOr modified/whatever?
16:57.49clock_compiled
16:58.08clock_LFS is a web instructions where they tell you what to type to compile everything from scratch
16:58.18illethalCool.
16:58.19clock_kernel, gcc, glibc,...bash,...,firefox,...
16:58.26illethalUbuntu is pretty unstable.
16:58.28illethalImo.
16:58.37illethalI think I'm going to switch to gentoo.
16:58.45clock_Friend had an Ubuntu and he typed locate and locate segfaulted
16:58.53illethalYeah.
16:59.03clock_I had gentoo but every time I upgraded it blew up about 5 times and I had to try secret tricks from google
16:59.14illethalhaha
16:59.16clock_sometimes the tricks didn't work so I had to google up a different remedy etc.
16:59.19clock_It's a load of bullshit
16:59.25clock_Then I ditched gentoo and tried OpenBSD
16:59.30clock_Also exploded when I upgrded
16:59.31illethalWell my bro uses gentoo more than ubuntu. So if I need help I've got it.
16:59.41clock_So now I have LFS. I had LFS for years before and I was basically happy
16:59.45clock_So now I am happy again :)
16:59.49illethalI havn't upgraded in a long ass time.
16:59.52illethalI'm still on feisty.
17:00.17illethalUbuntu has such gay names.
17:00.21illethalGutsy Gibbon lol
17:00.28clock_Software today is piece of crap. Load of bullshit. Heap of trash.
17:00.48clock_I am gay
17:00.59clock_you shouldn't use the word "gay" as a synonym for something bad or laughable
17:01.14illethalYou're a homosexual.
17:01.22illethalNot gay =P
17:01.22clock_Yes that too
17:01.28clock_No I am gay
17:01.34illethalYou could be a manic depressed homosexual!
17:01.44clock_you could be Manic Miner
17:02.39illethalDon't mean to offend you buddy.
17:02.39clock_Yeah sure I know
17:02.39clock_you just didn't care to offend all gays in the world
17:03.23illethalYou mean homos.
17:03.33clock_I know what I mean
17:03.35clock_you can't know it
17:03.50illethalHomos are gays. Heteros are Sads.
17:04.38clock_yeah you have all those wifes shopping babies etc.
17:04.45clock_changing diapers
17:04.49clock_kindergartens
17:05.41illethalGays like to shop too I thought.
17:05.50clock_Especially the camp ones
17:05.53illethalCould just be a stereotype.
17:06.17clock_Buy a lot offancy crap to hook up on their HIV-soaked promiscuous bodies
17:06.36illethalExactly.
17:06.43clock_I don't like promiscuous gays
17:06.45illethalTo each his own.
17:06.53clock_I read 1 of 6 gays in the "scene" in Zurich are HIV+
17:07.36clock_sounds like I should walk only with rubber gloves protective goggles and a preservative already on in the street just for the case I passed by some of them
17:08.20clock_sounds like a promiscuity is a ticket to cemetery here
17:09.27illethalLol
17:09.36illethalyeah that's groooooooz
17:09.52clock_1 in 6 that's like the Russian Roulette
17:10.45clock_If they invent a vaccine for HIV they need to excavate a lot of earth for the storage tanks in the factory
17:10.58illethalHaha
17:11.05clock_maybe build a pipeline
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17:11.42illethalIsn't Zurich in Switzerland?
17:11.51clock_``Erik: did I offend you with my comment on pinnacle of 30 years of development?
17:11.56clock_yes Switzerland
17:12.15clock_in the news today in teh paper new in the train
17:12.21clock_they wrote the price of prostitution dropped
17:12.33clock_like 30 CHF (35 USD?) for a sex in the street
17:12.47illethalhttp://micah.noobgrinder.com/builda.png
17:12.58clock_What's happening with our Zurich?
17:13.23illethalSomething I was working on a while ago.
17:13.27clock_Autodesk that's not BRL-CAD
17:13.35clock_do you want to use BRL-CAD for that?
17:13.59illethalIt's maya.
17:14.07illethal8.5
17:14.18illethalI could probably never do that in BRL-CAD.
17:14.35illethalAll I can do in BRL-CAD is make a cube and move it's faces lol
17:14.44clock_yeah
17:14.59clock_nothing against BRL-CAD I like BRL-CAD even with the limitations it has
17:15.05clock_But I wanted to do a polygonal plate
17:15.16clock_So I asked brlcad and he advised me some secret command that was undocumented
17:15.22clock_Described the syntax in detail
17:15.32clock_I typed it I believe exactly as he said and it didn't work
17:15.59clock_Every now and then I run into some error in the doc, ambiguity or some topic not being covered at all
17:16.04clock_I also found a lot of segfaults
17:16.26clock_Like - it's still great - but these can be serious obstackles during work, especially for a novice
17:16.38clock_Now I have a problem if I do a cutaway view the rendering alsmost grinds to a halt
17:17.28clock_BRL-CAD people are great they fix all or most of the problems shortly after I find them
17:17.31clock_Especially segfaults
18:07.09``Eriknah, didn't offend me, I was out at lunch
18:08.05``ErikI'm hoping my contributions have removed a lot of the suck and modernized things a lot int he last few years, but *shrug* I'm only one codegod :D and smothered in bs politics and crap so I don't have much time to commit
18:15.26clock_``Erik: the problem is my model is logically built
18:15.34clock_that means I first make a device like the optical head
18:15.46clock_and then I say now we want to look what's inside .... cut!
18:16.01clock_Thinking about the cut at the moment I make the screw is not appropriate.
18:16.07clock_Also because the script is made by an automatic script.
18:16.25clock_However, would it help if the cutting thing was composed of a larger amount of smaller subthings?
18:17.21clock_the script is made -> the bolt (screw) is made
18:46.26CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30450 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: struct dg_obj and supporting cast has been moved to dg.h
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18:47.02CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30451 10/brlcad/trunk/include/dg.h: Initial check-in.
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18:48.54CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30452 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (69 files in 5 dirs): Mods related to bio.h and the new dg.h wrt getting things compiled on Windows.
18:54.14CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30453 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: Move "drawable geometry" related function declarations to dg.h
19:02.44CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30454 10/brlcad/trunk/include/dg.h: Added function declarations.
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21:00.30CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30455 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: Move include for bio.h after common.h
21:05.58CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30456 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_wgl.c: Move include for bio.h after common.h
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22:18.54``Erik1http://bash.org/?10626
22:24.48``Erikminus that first 1, of course
22:25.09archivistcooking, whats wrong with beans on cheese on toast?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080305

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080305

00:26.43MaloeranHey Erik, I missed your reply, where did your comic page go? :) You can say it in privmsg if the talks push the reply out of the buffer again, thanks
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00:32.38iraytraceevening all !
00:35.30brlcadMaloeran: it's up at http://bzflag.bz/~erik/comics/
00:35.40brlcadiraytrace: howdy!
00:35.57iraytraceHowdy back!
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01:41.15``Erikheh, someone needs to put a fly trap up to stick lee here
01:41.46``Erikmal: math.missouristate.edu changed to euler.missouristate.edu and they didn't bother telling me until 4 days after it happened
01:41.52``Erikso I've been fixing the mail handler and shit to cope
01:42.07``Erikand they didn't bother with a cname cuz they're tards
01:42.30``Erikbut I keep the comic page in cvs, so any place with a reasonable php can take it fast... a mirror is on bz :)
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03:11.33starseekeriraytrace:  So what's it like doing IRC on a pogo stick? ;-)
03:12.07iraytraceIts SoMeWhAt DiScOnCeRtInG
03:25.54starseeker:-)
03:26.05starseekerIs your connection a bit erratic?
03:48.22iraytraceSorry, preoccupied with /.
03:49.29iraytraceHow's life on the coast?
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07:01.09oden1Good day fellows.
07:01.16illethalpow
07:01.28illethalI use weechat-curses and it never keeps my nick name the way I want it.
07:01.45Axman6use irssi, and you
07:01.49Axman6you'll be fine
07:01.56Axman6learn to type, and i'll be fine
07:02.00illethalIrssi is similar, ya?
07:02.03illethalHahaha
07:02.09Axman6that is, i should learn to type, not you :P
07:02.17illethalI should learn also.
07:02.25illethalI heard hooked on phonics is pretty good.
07:02.48Axman6never used weechat, but it's basically considered the best cli irc client (and to some, the best irc client, cli or otherwise ;)
07:03.02illethalI'd have to agree.
07:03.07CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30457 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (cmd.h dg.h): this will very-likely re-break the build on Windows, but bio.h is a private header and cannot be included in any public headers. (e.g. it shouldn't ever be installed.)
07:03.16illethalI don't know all the commands but it smokes the old mIRC I used to use on windows.
07:04.14brlcadshouldn't that be "i herd hokt on fonics iz prity gud"
07:04.30illethalya sumtin lik dat
07:06.54starseekerbrlcad:  What's the alternative to including bio.h?
07:07.43brlcadnot including it? :)
07:08.40brlcadit belongs in the app code, not the public headers -- it's just included elsewhere
07:09.03brlcadit's also really just a simple wrapper around a more complex set of #include logic
07:09.34illethalMan brlcad you're so leet.
07:09.37brlcadlogic that provide standard and native I/O decls
07:13.02CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30458 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: why are these three ifree functions needed? if they're special, they should probably be documented with a comment.
07:14.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30459 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: give it a name 'just in case' someone really does need these so they can be given a cppflag that will make it all better
07:16.22illethalAxman6: in irssi, what is the command to join another channel, and still remain in the one you are currently in?
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07:20.51CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30460 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/flawfinder.sh: add a regression test for bio.h to make sure nobody adds it to a public header down the road.
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07:37.31illethalHello president Kennedy.
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07:47.54brlcadyay for for file in `find . -type f \( -name \*.c -o -name \*.cpp -o -name \*.cxx -o -name \*.h -o -name \*.y -o -name \*.l \) -not -regex '.*src/other.*' -not -regex '.*~' -not -regex '.*\.log' -not -regex '.*Makefile.*' -not -regex '.*cache.*' -not -regex '.*\.svn.*' -exec grep -n -I -e '#[[:space:]]*include' {} /dev/null \; | grep "\"common.h\"" | sed 's/:.*//g'` ; do if test -f "`echo $file | sed 's/\.c$/\.l/g'`" ; then continue ; fi ; grep '#[[:space:]]*in
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08:27.52pooliobrlcad: Is that you entry in the obfuscated bash contest?
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08:41.57brlcadheh, no way
08:42.06brlcadthat's pretty straightforward (to me at least) :)
08:42.21brlcadhalf of it is just the find pattern
08:42.31poolioIt's straightforward if you try to figure it out, but at 4am and halfway through a paper, it's gibberish.
08:42.40brlcadi've written much much longer :)
08:43.10brlcadthat one just does a neat thing, finds all non-lexer files that don't include common as the first file
08:44.09poolioI always mess up quotes and back quotes and double quotes
08:44.14poolioAnd sometimes wish I had another type of quote to use
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09:33.16brlcad:)
09:33.54brlcadd_rossberg: fyi, I'm also working/verifying the windows build
09:34.17brlcadlast stages of trying to make sure everything is stable and working (particularly windows) for this 7.12.0 release
09:34.51brlcadhopefully the end of this week/weekend if there aren't any problems -- if you find anything, please let me know or mail the dev list
09:36.56CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30461 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/flawfinder.sh:
09:36.56CIA-32BRL-CAD: add another coding check for the common.h inclusion ordering. this makes sure
09:36.56CIA-32BRL-CAD: common.h always comes first if/when listed in a file. alas the script isn't
09:36.56CIA-32BRL-CAD: tweaked to work right if there are spaces in the path name, but then there are
09:36.56CIA-32BRL-CAD: probably other scripts like that in regress too
09:41.58CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r30462 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): some additional bio.h includes to make the Windows build work again
09:42.48d_rossbergbrlcad: now my windows-dll build works again
09:57.06CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r30463 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am: opennurbs_zlib.h needs to be installed because of the z_stream type
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14:22.02brlcadd_rossberg: okay
14:45.44``Erikhukt on fonix heheheh
14:48.21yukonbobarchivist: oxford
14:49.12archivistIm about 70 miles north near Derby and Burton
14:53.29brlcadhowdybob
14:53.48yukonbobhey -- what's shaking
14:54.04yukonbob(/me  was waving North, to archivist) :)
14:54.17yukonbob:)
14:55.54archivistI like Blackwells bookshop in Oxford
15:10.16yukonbobbrlcad: heh
15:15.00CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30464 10/brlcad/trunk/Makefile.am: include/conf/DATE is in builddir, not srcdir
15:15.43brlcadgah, then that's version-specific
15:16.07brlcadI traced down one config and during distcheck, it was stashing DATE into srcdir as a BUILT_SOURCES
15:16.34brlcadthat or something else is missing
15:16.43brlcadmaybe DESTDIR
15:27.17``ErikO.o
15:27.17``Erikhrm
15:27.37``Erikusing the rhel automake, it was bitching about not finding that file
15:29.48MaloeranThanks brlcad and ``Erik for the update on the comics page :)
15:30.21``Erikthrere're two copies now, in case one craps out... one at euler.missouristate.edu and one at bz.bzflag.bz
15:34.31CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30465 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (librt/Makefile.am other/libpng/Makefile.am): update dependancy info
15:34.54clock_``Erik: would it help to make the cutting primitive from more smaller parts?
15:35.13``Erikclock: probably
15:36.02``Erikmaking the cut lower in the heirarchy with smaller cutters would be useful
15:36.05``Eriki'd imagine
15:36.24``Erikor just suck it up and accept the slow raytrace time *shrug* :)
15:36.27clock_I don't want the cut low in the hierarchy
15:36.40clock_but the raytrace takes like a week
15:37.00``Erikyeah? and? :D
15:37.04clock_Even when I bought a modern 2-CPU machine just for the purpose of the slow BRL-CAD renderingf
15:37.52clock_would it help if the cut would still be at the toplevel, but I wouldn't cut with one big cube, but with a union of a lot of small cubes?
15:39.14``Eriky'know, thinking about it now, I don't think so
15:39.35clock_so to speed up it must be down in the hierarchy?
15:39.54``Erikthe bounding box and bounding sphere grow as you walk up the heirarchy, and the thing that's killing you is bad space partitioning, I think
15:40.09``Erikbrlcad knows the guts of the space partitioning crap far better than I do
15:40.12clock_What is exctly space partitioning? An octree?
15:40.18``ErikI'm kinda guessing based on symptoms
15:40.29``Erikum, I think it's more of a KD-tree
15:40.38``Erikor BSP
15:40.45clock_What function does it do in BRL-CAD?
15:40.53``Erikspace partitioning?
15:41.24``Erikit's all about culling O.o
15:41.26clock_SO basically you have a function which you give a point and it returns you all objects that might intersect that point?
15:42.07``Erika ray (or perhaps a line), and all possibly intersecting geometry on that line/ray
15:42.48clock_Well my case should slow down exactly twice
15:42.57clock_and not 210x
15:43.24``Eriknoooo, in your case, it should slow down up to, um, I think 10kx?
15:43.37clock_why?
15:43.41``ErikI lost your .g file
15:43.48``Erikyour 'head' object is complex
15:44.12``Erikthe possibly slowdown is in the neighborhood of the number of primitives in head
15:44.26``Erikpossible
15:44.38clock_Can adding one cube increase the complexity 10,000 times?
15:44.42``Erikmaybe nlg2n, I d'no the guts of the code
15:45.17clock_The rt prints "20,xxx primitives"
15:45.20clock_20 thousand something
15:45.24``Erikwell, if I have a million sphers in a row and I shoot it from the side, it'll be very fast, because I only ever have to test one sphere per ray
15:45.30clock_is it the number of primitives I have in the scene?
15:45.43clock_Or does it break down the primitives further into individual intersecting areas?
15:45.46``Erikbut if I cut all of them in half with one huge box, every ray requires 1m+1 computations
15:46.01clock_Why?
15:46.08clock_I would think it requires 2 computation
15:46.11``Erikif I had 1m sphers and 1m corrosponding boxes, each one cutting a signle sphere, then each ray would take 2
15:46.18clock_Once it intersects the bounding box of one sphere
15:46.22clock_second times the huge box
15:47.04``Erik... in the general case, you cannot know what the total impact of that single cutter is
15:47.12clock_The partitioning should return only those primitives whose bounding boxes are intersected by the ray
15:47.13``Erikso you have to evaluate everything in the tree
15:47.26clock_So adding one primitive adds maximum one more hit per ray
15:47.51clock_Sounds like the algorithm has a bug
15:47.57clock_which is triggered by my scene
15:48.13``Erikum, the algorithm is fine... I get what you're thinking SHOULD happen
15:48.21``Erikbut there's no way to DO it computationally
15:48.24clock_I don't get it
15:48.29``Erikthat's where the human blows the machine away
15:49.26clock_So you basically do some kind of heuristics and my case is a poison case for that heuristic?
15:49.37``Erikok, i have a million spheres... and I want to cut them in half... but instead of just being discrete spheres in a row, they're now complex... they overlap, some are unions, some are intersections, some are subtractions, and multilayered
15:49.40``Erikwhat do you do?
15:49.50clock_shoot a ray
15:49.56``Erikanswer? no way to know. Have to bump the bounding volume and weave at the end.
15:50.16clock_ask the partitioner which spheres bounding boxes intersect my ray
15:50.19``Erikactually, there IS a way to know, but it'd take a century to figure out before you could even fire a ray
15:50.24clock_intersect only with those returned from the partitioner
15:50.26clock_weave the logics
15:50.41``Erikbut you don't know which spheres bb's MATTER
15:50.52``Erikyou can't until after you intersect them all
15:51.10``Erikafter you weave them, in fact
15:51.16clock_that's without the partitioner
15:51.26clock_the idea of the partitioner is to cull this before you have to fire rays
15:51.30``Erikyeah...
15:51.34``Erikit culls what it can
15:51.41clock_and btw, intersecting with a cube is not much work
15:52.22``Erikexcept it's not "a cube", it's "arbitrary geometry"
15:52.44clock_if it's bounding box, then it's a box
15:52.56clock_if it were a bounding elephant, then it would be in a shape of an elephant.
15:53.23``ErikI assert that its' a lot more complex than you think. Please prove me wrong and provide a patch. :)
15:54.26clock_Does the documentation of BRL-CAD contain any tips how to avoid running into excessive rendering time?
15:54.39clock_I mean the official user documentation.
15:54.44``Erik<-- doesn't know
15:54.46clock_Not some comments in the code.
15:55.34clock_I could try to isolate the pathological case
15:55.49clock_I am trying to use BRL-CAD as a user and I fail.
15:56.07``Erikwe already know the pathological case... and that there's no quick fix for it
15:56.10clock_The performance is close to unusable
15:56.21clock_Btw if I display my model, it also takes ages to display
15:56.29clock_And during the display there is no space partitioning
15:56.38clock_Another example where BRL-CAD is unusably slow
15:57.08``Erik*shrug* it's drawing a lot of lines, and there's no 'detail level' built in right now
15:57.09clock_What is the pathological case said in general terms?
15:57.36clock_I can tell you how long it should take.
15:58.05clock_Let's assume all those 20,000 primitives are cylinders - most are
15:58.12clock_A cylinder has 2 circles and 4 lines
15:58.16clock_each circle has 8 lines
15:58.18clock_that's 20 lines total
15:58.24clock_400,000 lines in total
15:58.28``Erikintersection with complex geometry increases the ray trace complexity by the number of primitives involved?
15:58.33clock_average length of the line is like 10 pixels
15:58.36clock_that 4 million pixels
15:58.47``Erikinteraction, even
15:58.47clock_1 pixel is 3 bytes
15:58.50clock_that's 12 megabytes
15:59.27clock_let's assume the PCI runs at 100 MHz and each pixel write takes 4 ticks
15:59.36clock_that's 500ms to draw it all
15:59.50clock_in real it takes 30 seconds. 60 times more than it should.
16:00.00``Erikfor non-trivial geometry, raytracing is cpu bound, not bus bound
16:00.11clock_this is *not* raytracing!
16:00.18clock_This is the 'B' command - drawing the wireframe.
16:00.57``Erikoh, heh, ok, each primitive is composed of many many lines, each endpoint of the line gets shoved through a matrix and then the line is rasterized
16:01.12``Erikstill cpu bound, drawing the pixels is quick and easy (even though fb is lametarded slow at it)
16:01.26``Erikand we don't use SSE or graphics card matrix modules to accelerate it :(
16:01.36clock_you don't have to
16:01.42clock_My CPU is 2.2GHz
16:01.53clock_What I am getting is 8-bit style ZX Spectrum drawing speed
16:02.06``Erikuh not for the complexity of what you're trying to draw
16:02.15``Erikremember, we have no LOD :(
16:02.25``Erikso you're not drawing 400,000 pixels
16:02.30``Erikyou're drawing 20,000,000 lines
16:03.28clock_no 400,000 lines
16:03.56clock_20,000 primitives times 20 lines per primitive
16:06.24clock_In which function is a cylindren broken down into a wireframe of lines for the purpose of display?
16:06.28clock_cylinder
16:06.41clock_Maybe there are sinuses and cosinuses I could kick out
16:13.17CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30466 10/brlcad/trunk/include/conf/PATCH: heh, skipping 3 and 4, going right to 5
16:15.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30467 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/ (fb_obj.c tcl.c): Include bio.h for windows compilation.
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16:55.34CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30468 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/librt/librt.vcproj: Define _RT_DECL_IFREE. This is needed by asc2g.
16:56.02CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30469 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/asc2g/asc2g.vcproj: Define _RT_DECL_IFREE.
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17:35.53CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30470 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/Dm.tcl: Need to check for the existence of the display variable.
17:39.33CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30471 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/rtwizard.bat: Update the version. There should be a way to do this dynamically.
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20:00.22CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30472 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am: add deps
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01:06.34brlcadhmm
01:22.24iraytraceHmmm?
01:23.11iraytrace:(  :P  :D  9.9  :)
01:25.40poolio:'(
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06:51.54CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30473 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/libfb/if_ogl.c): (log message trimmed)
06:51.54CIA-32BRL-CAD: remove the protections for the 'm' mode in the opengl framebuffer as well as
06:51.54CIA-32BRL-CAD: requesting indirect buffers, now always requesting direct and seeing what we
06:51.55CIA-32BRL-CAD: get. my always doing 'multiple window mode', the code now (correctly) acquires
06:51.55CIA-32BRL-CAD: and releases the opengl context for all of the drawing so that there aren't
06:51.57CIA-32BRL-CAD: multithreaded crashes on mac and linux. bob and I tag-teamed tracking down the
06:51.59CIA-32BRL-CAD: cause and a fix for this bug over a couple days. interestingly, the crash on
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06:56.54CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30474 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (6 files in 6 dirs): common.h always comes first, there's a regression test that checks for this now too
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13:55.36``Erikhrm
14:01.23``Erikblah blah blah
14:01.39``Erikbrlcad, can we just axe vas4? I'm seeing issues with it again
14:05.29clock_``Erik: do you know which function or *.c file translates cyliders into the line for display when I do the "B" command?
14:05.34clock_into the lines
14:06.28``Erikyeah
14:06.29``Erikum
14:06.41``Eriksrc/librt/g_tgc.c um, "plot"
14:07.07clock_Thanks
14:07.12``Erikrt_tgc_plot, line 1774
14:08.01``Erikyou'll notice all it does is create a linked list of points... in mged, there's a routine to take those, do matrix crunch on each point and rasterize a line...
14:08.04clock_great
14:10.26clock_is this linked list created every time the picture is redrawn?
14:10.35clock_Or is it kept in memory and just the matrix crunch is changing?
14:10.39``Erikum, I'm not sure
14:10.52``ErikI'd hope the latter, and that plot is only called when you 'e' something up
14:12.13``Erikif you look at the mged code, lost in a maze of twisty spaghetti code, all looke alike
14:27.49brlcad``Erik: what's the prob?
14:29.36brlcadI believe it calls plot each time
14:29.39brlcadplot really takes no time to recompute for all prims except the old nurbs
14:30.59brlcadplus when you e something up, since all db actions are transactional, if the object was B'd or d's otherwise invalidated, it's removed from memory and reloaded from disk (in case it changed)
14:34.01clock_brlcad: but if I change something in the scene it doesn't redraw by itself
14:35.16``Erikold bsd tty api, fbsd7 freaks out a bit on it
14:35.59``Erikand we never define HAVE_XOPEN for the termios.h style, and if I change that to HAVE_TERMIOS_H, it freaks out because it uses struct pieces that aren't there
14:42.06brlcad``Erik: aiight, axe
14:44.02brlcadclock_: that's the mged side of things and depends on what you change and how you change it -- some actions force a redraw, some don't
14:44.36clock_OK
14:44.59brlcadthe redraws are intentionally minimized since once you get to real models, it might take several seconds to load the data (i.e. the db read is fast, the plot is fast, but takes forever to blit the damn lines over a remote X11 connection to the display manager)
14:45.24clock_My model takes forever even over a local X11 connection
14:46.26clock_You or ``Erik can try how fast it is on your super-machines look at http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/comparison.g and do "B comparison"
14:46.42clock_That's the one that was too slow
14:46.56clock_Provided that you have enough time for such experiments, of course.
14:47.17brlcadi'll have to try it in about an hour, this box doesn't have a gui-mged ready to go .. testing something else
14:48.24``Eriktook like 2 seconds for me
14:48.46``Erik3.5, sorry
14:49.39brlcadon a completely unrelated topic, some previews of the new BZFlag tank model being worked on: http://bzflag.bz/tmp/glasstank.png  
14:50.10brlcadhttp://www.opencombat.net/files/tankv5_sides.png
14:50.20``Erikwow, so I'm not gonna be able to say "at least ktank is better than the bzflag model" for much longer? :D *duck*
14:51.07brlcadhttp://bzflag.bz/tmp/newtank.png
14:51.07brlcadvarious incarnations, still working some tweaks out
14:51.07``Erikis that oval on top supposed to be a hatch or something?
14:51.11brlcadlike how big the sidewall armor plating is, where the turret actually sits, etc
14:51.16brlcadheh yeah
14:51.45brlcadthere's lots of "artistic freedom" going on, but has always been loosely based on our beloved bradley
14:51.48clock_``Erik: you have 3GHz?
14:52.00brlcadhttp://bzflag.bz/tmp/m1bzoverlay.png
14:52.07``Erikyeah, clock
14:52.30clock_``Erik: did you use the "B" command or some other one? Does this command take advantage of the 8 CPUs?
14:52.33``Erikbradly or abrams? O.o *cough*
14:52.37clock_You said you have 8 CPUs
14:52.48``ErikI used 'e', and I don't believe plot is threaded
14:52.56brlcadsry, abrams
14:53.21brlcadyeah, bradley would suck as a bz tank :)
14:53.31``Erikbradley would suck as any tank *cough*
14:53.50brlcadnow that we can actually load separate tank models
14:54.06brlcadI'm looking forward to seeing a battlefield of abrams vs t72's :)
14:54.19``Erikgot a blender .py exporter for bz?
14:54.26brlcadyeah, somewhere
14:54.37``Erikwhat format is bz using for tank models?
14:54.48``Erikcusom?
14:54.51``Erikcustom, even?
14:54.52brlcadbasic polygonal
14:54.55brlcadwas custom
14:55.03brlcadnow there's actually a mini obj loader
14:55.06``Erikcp g-stl.c g-bz.c
14:55.09``Erik*cougH* O:-)
14:55.26brlcadg-obj.c already does the trick ;)
14:55.35``Erikhehehe, cool
14:55.41``Erikwish I had the time to slap together an obj-g.c
14:55.44brlcadannoying we don't have an obj importer though
14:55.54brlcadkeep having to have jeff dump to dxf
14:58.43CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30475 10/brlcad/trunk/src/vas4/Makefile.am: disable build (but leave in dist for this release)
14:59.05``Erikobj is a really simple format, but no one has time to do it :/
14:59.31``Erikan excellent "new developer" task that'd be good bragging rights for anyone looking to help with coding
14:59.36``Erik*cough* *looks around*
15:04.46CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30476 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: favor -lpthread to -pthread
15:12.07brlcadah, vas4 was already deprecated for this release .. when the changes started .. forgot about it
15:13.53``Erik<-- figures let it go out as dead files this release, if no one bitches, remove it in a release or 2
15:14.04``Erikworking from home today?
15:22.28brlcadno, bob was coming in today and tomorrow to help test/fix for release, so I'll be in
15:23.29brlcadgood idea for vas4 (already has a doc/deprecation.txt listing)
15:26.46brlcadi think i'll meet up and/or come in after lunch, though .. actually got some sleep last night so i'm a bit behind today
15:27.33``Erikah, I was asking as a lunch posse notion :)
15:27.49brlcadk
15:29.43``Erikhrm, 'make dist' is failing for me (no useful error message, just "Error code 1" after some ugly svn related schell crap)
15:31.21CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30477 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Put back a few class variables (i.e. they fell out during the ArcherCore transition) and make a few plugin related methods public.
15:33.04brlcad``Erik: cd regress && make flawfinder
15:33.21brlcadit'd be one of the two new shell tests in the flawfinder.sh
15:34.00``Erikhuh, guess I need python installed
15:34.18brlcadpython?
15:34.36brlcadoooh, for flawfinder, yeah
15:34.42``Erikenv: python: No such file or directory
15:34.45brlcadso you just haven't run the test in a long while
15:35.08brlcadcould make flawfinder.sh skip the flawfinder part if there's no python
15:35.16``Erikwell, after upgrading that opteron box to fbsd7, I purged all the ports and started minimally adding just enough for BRL-CAD piecewise...
15:35.38``Erikaside from vim, bash, screen, emacs, portmanager, and pkg_cutleaves, that is
15:37.52CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30478 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/flawfinder.sh: make sure we have a python interpreter before proceeding with the flawfinder test
15:38.23brlcadpkg_cutleaves?
15:38.30brlcadwasdat
15:41.27CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30479 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: the ogl framebuffer problem is crashed, though it still needs some cleanup. it's making way too many calls to get/release the context now so it's dog-slow .. need to try what bob had which was just protecting write()
15:52.37CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30480 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_ogl.c:
15:52.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: woo hoo! the performance problems were simply because several of the
15:52.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: glXMakeCurrent acquire/release pairings were .. wrong. rather, they're in the
15:52.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: wrong place with respect to the logic sometimes only acquiring in a specific
15:52.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: scope but then releasing in a different scope. made them all consistent and
15:52.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: sure enough it all behaves spiffily now .. yay for the return of the ogl
15:52.40CIA-32BRL-CAD: framebuffer.
15:54.18CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30481 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: remove dead code, just makes maintenance a bitch
15:57.28*** part/#brlcad terrylr (i=terrylr@maria-enzersdorf.blauedonau.com)
16:01.15CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30482 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_wgl.c: more dead code removal
16:07.16clock_brlcad: I still also have the problem on my home machine that the mged doesn't start.
16:07.25clock_The BRL-CAD version there is the latest released.
16:07.31clock_Worked fine on OpenBSD I think
16:07.37clock_7.10.4 IIRC?
16:07.41CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30483 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/Display.tcl: Modify rt and rtedge methods to stop unnecessarily specifying parameters like framebuffer, width, height and aspect.
16:09.35``Erikbrlcad: lists all installed packages that are not depended on by anything (safe to remove), also has a recursive interactive removal mode so you can trim your package count down safely
16:10.06``Erikjim and dave are interested in going out for lunch, dave said korean, fyi
16:11.19CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30484 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_wgl.c:
16:11.19CIA-32BRL-CAD: make the wgl interface do the same as the ogl interface, fixing the various
16:11.19CIA-32BRL-CAD: incorrectly scoped wglMakeCurrent calls so that they actually pair up correctly
16:11.19CIA-32BRL-CAD: with the logic. also, actually make them release the context (the code was
16:11.19CIA-32BRL-CAD: wrong, they just kept it) so when parallel support is added to windows, it'll
16:11.21CIA-32BRL-CAD: actually work.
16:11.55brlcad``Erik: okay, just lemme know where
16:12.03brlcador call on the way or something
16:12.29brlcadclock_: need more info, but I'm betting it's configure-related -- try adding --enable-all to the configure line
16:12.41clock_brlcad: OK
16:13.16brlcadif you're compiling that is .. if you installed from binary, that'd be good to know if it's not working (i've not heard that)
16:14.26clock_Putiting a binary on my system? Haha.
16:14.35clock_Putting
16:15.01clock_Binaries can contain hidden rootkits.
16:15.02``Erikum
16:15.06``Erikok, actually, it's changed to olive shack
16:15.12``Erikjim veto's korean
16:15.26brlcadboo hiss
16:15.37``Erikmebbe tomorrie :)
16:16.01``Eriksee ya after lunch then :)
16:17.30brlcadyou all leaving soon?
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16:39.24CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30485 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: Try to get a direct context (speed).
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17:54.55``ErikO.o
17:56.42``Erikbrlcad, no .mgedrc http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d3dfc9116
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19:54.50brlcadnot sure about that crash .. looks kinda like a Tk bug really
19:55.06brlcadusing a system tk apparently, tried building from our end?
19:55.34``Erikours works
19:55.35brlcadif you have and it still crashes, try with --disable-freetype (I think that's the opt) in configure.ac as a tcl/tk configure option
19:55.40brlcadahh
19:55.43brlcadweird
19:55.49``ErikI d'no why system 85 doesn't
19:56.23``Eriksystem wish85 comes up, I d'no how to use it though
19:57.33brlcadcan you pop up that stack 17 frames and see what it's actually evaluating?
19:58.20``Erikoh, I already trashed it
19:58.20brlcadso need a tcl debugger .. though even if we had one, it probably wouldn't work with mged since it's an interpreter in itself
19:58.23brlcadk
19:58.40``ErikI figured I'd focus more on the metaball issues
20:02.08CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30486 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: note "minimal system" testing
21:19.06CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30487 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_metaball.c: fluff up the isopotential method a bit... back to the old way, kinda
21:42.43CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30488 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/geometree/GeometryBrowser.tcl: Remove extra set of double quotes in format statement of rgbToHex method.
21:44.09Z80-Boy``Erik: you mean the gcc that compiled compromised gcc and login?
21:44.45Z80-BoyNice self-reference btw. Hofstadter would surely masterbate to it.
21:45.32Z80-BoyWrite in machine code then. That's not compromised :)
21:46.35Z80-BoyThe difference between machine code and compiler is like a skateboard and a tilting train
21:46.46Z80-BoyIn a tilting train, the machine does the traction and tilting for you.
21:47.11Z80-BoyOn a skateboard you have to learn how the machine feels, she won't learn it. But then - then you can do *ANYTHING* you want!
21:52.30``Erikum, ken thompsons "reflections on trusting trust"
21:53.21``Erikfrom '84?
21:56.45alex_jonithere can be no ultimate trust
21:57.05``Erikonly as much as you can have ultimate provability
21:58.34alex_joniyou might have some trust for your own code
21:58.52``Eriktrust it to do what? O.o :D
22:00.02alex_joniwell.. probably something
22:00.14alex_jonimost likely not what it was intended to do :)
22:31.10CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30489 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/typein.c: set a default "goo" value on metaballs
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080307

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080307

00:30.57starseekerHmm - this looks like fun to model - too bad the dimensions are too small to read http://arcweb.archives.gov/arc/digital_detail.jsp?&pg=1&rn=2&tn=796236&st=b&rp=summary&nh=2&si=0
00:35.29brlcadcookie'd link, can't read it
00:40.37starseekerpfft
00:40.39starseekerhang on
00:41.28starseekerhttp://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/783889_001_a.jpg
00:44.40brlcadthat would make an *awesome* csg model
00:45.32brlcadyou don't need to read dimensions, you could print that out, pull out a compass/protractor/ruler and go to town
00:47.33starseekertrue :-)
00:47.42starseekergiven an overall length anyway
00:50.06brlcadlooks like it's documented http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060524049
00:50.18brlcad(with dimensions and historic details)
00:55.56brlcadhttp://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/images/bm-monitor-h50954.jpg
00:58.30brlcadhttps://dspace.sunsite.utk.edu/bitstream/1785/809/1/MS376p47-MonitorPlan-print.jpg
01:21.11starseekerAwesome
01:21.41starseekerThe national archives may have the originals - I'll have to get in there and try to get some higher res photos
01:41.47brlcadyeah
02:16.23CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30490 10/brlcad/trunk/ (doc/deprecation.txt include/wdb.h): deprecate mk_fastgen_comb() .. should just use mk_comb() or mk_lcomb()
02:17.13brlcad"In support of improved security, all SourceForge.net user passwords have been expired and must be changed upon next login. CVS, Subversion and Shell users will need to login to the site to change their password before they will be able to access these services."
02:37.55CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30491 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: cleanup comments on LOS
02:41.19CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30492 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/conv/fast4-g.c):
02:41.20CIA-32BRL-CAD: make the regions being created by fastf-g default to setting the material code
02:41.24CIA-32BRL-CAD: to 1 and LOS to 100 so that it actually matches the defaults that the modeler
02:41.26CIA-32BRL-CAD: and librt use. this quick tweak implements a request from dwayne kregel (S2 SCR
02:41.28CIA-32BRL-CAD: 918) .. which I just heard about it a few min ago.
02:50.10starseekerHey brlcad - the terra.dsp and terra.g files in the demo db don't seem to be happy - DSP buffer wrong size: 131592 s/b 131072
02:52.14brlcadsee what svn props are set on terra.dsp
02:52.29brlcadprobably thinks it's a windows file
02:53.05brlcadprobably need to unset svn:eol-style, or set it to something better
02:54.21starseekersvn:eol-style is set to CRLF
02:56.50brlcadyeah, that's wrong
02:57.02brlcaddsp files are usually msvc studio files
02:57.15brlcadso it was set on import
02:57.40brlcadshould be able to just unset the prop and check it out from svn again
03:23.59starseekerIs this the bit where svn is difficult about unsetting the prop?
03:24.06starseekers/difficult/different
03:27.00starseekerBingo - that was it
03:27.16starseekersvn propdel svn:eol-style terra.dsp
03:27.28starseekershould this be fixed in the main tree?
03:28.31brlcadyep
03:28.54starseekerwill a commit do it or does it need some magic on the sf side?
03:29.08brlcadthat'll do it
03:29.53starseekerk
03:29.58starseekerhmm - weird
03:30.33starseekerwhen I display ground.r and try to run rt I get raytrace failed, but the mged dialog succeeded?
03:31.20brlcadwhat mged dialog?
03:31.35starseekerFile -> Raytrace
03:32.00brlcadoh, you mean it works through the panel, but not with just "rt"?
03:32.07starseekeryes
03:32.12brlcadwhat's the error?
03:32.17starseekerRaytrace failed.
03:32.26brlcadheh, what led up to that
03:32.36starseekertrying to find an error in the message...
03:33.13starseekerbizarre - I don't seen an error message
03:33.14brlcadshould be right before the failed message
03:33.21brlcador it's crashing
03:33.30brlcadtry it on the command line
03:33.48brlcadrun "saveview" to save an rt script
03:33.52brlcadthen run that script
03:34.04brlcadlook at the log file and/or tweak the script to see what's going on
03:34.14brlcad(it's just a simple text shell script)
03:34.19starseekerHmm - with the command line rt it says Segmentation fault
03:34.40brlcadthat's not good
03:34.44brlcadthis using head?
03:35.01starseekerNot the very latest - let me rebuild
03:37.28starseekerHmm - the script did generate a pix file, apparently
03:38.21starseekerCan I do the commit on just terra.dsp or do I need to do the db dir to get the .svn props
03:39.58CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30493 10/brlcad/trunk/db/terra.dsp: Update props on terra.dsp to avoid file size issues when running demo.
03:40.06starseekerwow that was fast
03:40.19brlcadshould be instantaneous :)
03:40.27brlcadwe fixed most of the CIA bugs
03:40.32starseekerCool :-)
03:40.43starseekerOK, time to rebuild...
03:41.17brlcadcommon pitfall .. once you use the script, there will be a pix file with mode 400 so you have to manually rm -f the file to render again
03:41.33brlcadmake sure it's non-zero too .. and the right size
03:41.37brlcadmight have just stubbed a file
03:41.41brlcador partial result
03:41.48starseekerOK - let me rebuild first
03:45.08starseekerbrlcad:  a thought (which was what prompted the dsp experiment) - could a dsp be created that had ocean wave contours and then rendered with water transparency?
03:45.37starseeker(say, for a ship at sea effect?)
03:46.49starseekerFor bonus points, it could have a repeatable pattern and be mirrored arbitrarily to create larger ocean areas
04:04.16brlcadsure could
04:04.33brlcadthere is a smoothed normals option on the dsp that should do nicely
04:04.54brlcadmight look more like glass than water, but certainly possible to get old-school water probably
04:06.17starseekermaybe using extinction on the glass shader and a blue tint, then modeling actual ocean depth in the dsp?
04:08.28starseekerIf we wanted to get REALLY fancy we could add a routine adding/subtracting peaks and valleys in the dsp to create wave interference
04:17.10brlcadand/or code up a new water shader ;)
04:19.01starseekerNew feature - modeling tanks under water!
04:19.37starseekerAlthough I suppose it might be useful in "plowing through river" scenarios...
04:20.19brlcadthere's all sorts of fluids that it could represent that would be useful to be able to visualize
04:21.11brlcadfuel and blood come to mind ..
04:21.26starseekercoolant
04:21.36brlcadoil, other lubricants
04:21.54starseekerWould a proper water shader have to produce gradient effects?
04:24.09brlcadI know we can represent atmospheric effects visually, though I really forget the mechanism at the moment (it's probably a procedural shader iirc)
04:24.30brlcadsomething similar or maybe even that same shader might give the right effect, dunno
04:24.51brlcadthat's all experimental stuff, you'd likely be digging in code a bit
04:31.00starseekerPhew - latest head cvs does NOT crash with the rt command
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04:45.27louipchowdy
04:46.09starseekerhowdy :-)
04:46.33louipcsvn HEAD is 7.11.5 is that right?
04:47.09starseekerUm - not sure
04:52.05louipcsweet
04:53.16louipcI'm going to change the included PKGBUILD so it's mostly static. I can't figure how to really make it otherwise
05:03.14CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03louipc * r30494 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/archlinux/ (PKGBUILD.in brlcad.install.in brlcad.sh.in):
05:03.14CIA-32BRL-CAD: I'm making Arch Linux packaging scripts mostly static.
05:03.14CIA-32BRL-CAD: It seems the most practical thing to do.
05:03.25brlcad7.11.5 today, probably 7.12.0 tomorrow
05:04.58louipcoh wow cool
05:05.17louipcwell the PKGBUILD will read include/conf/ for version
05:06.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03louipc * r30495 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/archlinux/ (6 files): Rename Arch Linux scripts, also fix md5sum in PKGBUILD
05:07.13brlcadsaw that, nifty
05:08.38louipcI was wondering could there be a README on how to build packages for various distros to supplement INSTALL?
05:09.02brlcadlouipc: if there are edits that should get made when we release, should document it in HACKING in the release steps
05:09.14brlcadthere are platform-specific readme's already
05:09.20louipceg. since you've got debian, redhat, archlinux, etc
05:09.30brlcadgo for it :)
05:09.55brlcadthey're in doc/README.*
05:10.16louipcah alright
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07:08.36brlcadsome fun pics:
07:08.39brlcadhttp://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/OCPA-2005-03-10-092226.jpg
07:08.49brlcadhttp://www.arcent.army.mil/cflcc_today/2005/february/images/feb01_03/tank2.jpg
07:09.03brlcadthat's a freaking awesome shot
07:09.46brlcadand yet another favorite.. http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/070718-f-5622m-904.jpg  :-)
07:09.51brlcadhehe
07:12.20louipcsweet
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08:03.14CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03louipc * r30496 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac misc/archlinux/Makefile.am): Makefile and configure changes for Arch Linux
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14:01.58CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30497 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/geometree/geometree.tcl: Remove dead auto_path code.
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15:22.52yukonbobhello, nerds
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15:31.53``Erikheh
16:31.54clock_Do you know how it sounds when you play church bells with a bow?
16:39.53``ErikO.o
16:47.01clock_http://ronja.twibright.com/tubulars_and_bow.mp3
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18:58.08CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30498 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/geometree/GeometryBrowser.tcl: Add a few menu bindings to get things working a little better (i.e. right button to bring up menu, as before, and release to invoke menu item.
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20:32.14``Erikbrlcad, "they" say the tcl issue is back, and want your super voodoo magic to "fix" it
21:45.38CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30499 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/geometree/GeometryBrowser.tcl: Added code to redraw drawn objects.
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21:50.05CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30500 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 6 dirs): Update version to 7.12.0. Preparing for release.
21:51.10IriX64http://rafb.net/p/qLIWo075.html   <---- checked out as of last night , good job :)
21:55.20IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/latest.png   <---- what that paste refers too :)
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23:41.59CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30501 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/ (tcl/unix/Makefile.in tk/unix/Makefile.in): make sure the libraries have the exec bit set
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080308

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080308

01:18.38louipcAt one point I used to actually like helicopters.
02:14.09Axman6Twingy: i'd imagine that's pretty damn hard right?
02:14.44Twingyrequires a pretty good understanding of control theory, embedded programming, electronics, and dynamics
02:15.01Twingybut yes, tough problems
02:15.39Twingybuilding the autopilot is only solving 10% of the problem, the control laws are the other 90%
02:16.00Axman6the uni i'm at atm has possibly one of the world's most advanced 4 rotor helicopter prototype... things...
02:16.31Twingywhich one?
02:16.47Axman6it's like a meter across, but it's being built so it can fly right up to walls (like dams and stuff), and it can cope if a rotor fails
02:16.51Axman6ANU
02:16.51TwingyI think CMU is working on one
02:17.23Axman6i saw it on the tour of the engineering department :P
02:17.42Axman6sounded a lot more impressive when the tutor was telling us about it
02:18.11Twingyyou can make just about anything fly with the right control law
02:18.23Axman6heh
02:18.25Twingyadaptive, fuzzy logic, model predictive just to name a few
02:18.45Axman6think they said they'd been working on this for about 10 years now
02:18.51Twingymost students start with a basic PID
02:19.19Twingymost people I've met spend between 5 and 10 years on the autopilot before it flight worthy
02:19.27Twingy(the kind that spend 80 hours a week on them)
02:19.37Axman6yeah
02:19.40Twingyplanes are about half that time
02:19.53Axman6i can't even imagine where i'd start on something like that
02:20.14Twingyfirst you decide on a platform
02:20.40Axman6"everything"
02:20.51Axman6universal autopilot
02:20.53Axman6;)
02:20.54Twingythen you build an autopilot, after that you do testing and integration, then spend a long time testing the control algorithm
02:21.00Twingyno such thing yet
02:21.32Twingythe one I'm working on interfaces with x-plane over a udp connection
02:21.48Axman6i was about to ask if you'd used Xplane at all
02:21.49Twingyfor the simulation part of it
02:22.12Axman6my dad bought that for me for christmas year before last i think
02:22.15Twingyfor the actual testing I've got about $4k in hardware so far for the parts and the platform (E-Raptor 50)
02:22.31Twingythe gps alone was $1500
02:22.44Axman6wow
02:22.46Twingyand it's not even one of the fancy L1+L2
02:22.56Axman6L1+L2?
02:23.10Axman6is that using thr military channel thing too?
02:23.12Twingythe frequency bands the gps operates on
02:23.17TwingyL2 used to be military only
02:23.22Axman6yeah thought so'
02:23.27TwingyL2 gets you under 0.5m accuracy
02:23.43Axman6that was my next question
02:24.06Twingythe one I have is 20hz position, 20hz heading (dual antenna) with 1dof gyro and 2dof accelerometer for interpolation when gps blinks out
02:24.36Axman6sounds good
02:24.42TwingyI was designing a USB to serial board for it today
02:25.25Twingybasically an FT232RL + 4 resistors + 4 capacitors and a 11-pin header, 4-pin header (usb), 2-pin header power, and a 3.3V and 5.0V regulator
02:25.41Axman6brb, i have how cross buns to eat
02:25.46Twingywe have a circuit plotter at work, so I can juts sketch up a circuit and print it
02:26.16Axman6why are you using USB anyway?
02:26.27Twingybecause the pico-itx only has 4 usb and 1 serial
02:26.35Axman6ah ha!
02:26.40Twingyand the serial goes to the servo board I made
02:26.42Axman6i want one of those board so badly :(
02:26.54Axman6pico-itx that is
02:27.13Twingyit's not bad, it doesn't make sense to build an autopilot around a microcontroller anymore
02:27.18Axman6if it had another ethernet port, it would make an excellent router with OpenBSD
02:27.24Twingyeverything is 0402 and all on a single chip now
02:27.41TwingyI can hand solder TQFP 100's and QFN stuff, but you still can't get anywhere near the size
02:28.01Twingyif I were to make an autopilot around an AT91SAM7S64 (32-bit ARM) I still couldn't get anywhere near the size
02:28.12Twingyand next year the mobile-itx will be out, so instant reduction in size and mass
02:33.41Axman6awesome
02:48.28Twingyit's a lot of fun, but I go home with a headache just about every day
02:48.38Twingyit's really really hard stuff
02:49.10Axman6i assume you'll be running some OS on this board right? what're you using?
02:49.22Twingyit doesn't really matter
02:49.41Twingyas long as you don't have any latencies due to buffering
02:49.44Twingyyou are fine
02:50.25Axman6any good examples?
02:50.25Twingyyou can alleviate a lot of that by a call to fflush ()
02:50.25Twingyor you can modify the kernel driver
02:50.25Twingyeither way is straight forward
02:50.44Twingyyou should look at the serial code in the linux kernel
02:50.55Twingyit handles data differently above and below 2400 baud
02:51.10Twingyyou can modify the kernel so it'll obey no buffering on setserial
02:51.29Twingyat the moment I'm just using ubuntu server off a 2GB flash drive
02:51.35Twingythe drive weighs 3 grams
02:51.48Axman6heh, very nice
02:51.59TwingyI just made some nylon 5/8-18 TPI nuts on my cnc mill
02:52.05Axman6well, except that it's ubuntu, but oh well
02:52.12Twingyto replace a pair of 15 gram steel nuts with 3.4 gram nylon nuts
02:52.21Twingysaved me 24 grams
02:52.43Axman6what's cnc stand for anyway? i saw ANU's cnc mill the other day
02:52.53Axman6it was pretty massive
02:52.56TwingyI modeled the entire helicopter skid in solid works and put it into GCAM and cut it out on the cnc
02:53.09Twingycomputer numerically controlled
02:53.40Twingyeverything is 6061 aluminum
02:54.07Twingyit's cut some restitution and it's got a high tensile strength
02:54.21Axman6excellent
02:54.59TwingyI'm terrible at dynamics though
02:55.06Twingythat's why I've been taking some classes
02:55.18Axman6i hope you're not working on this alone
02:55.27Twingythe electronics and programming are the easy part
02:55.47TwingyI'm working with 1 other person
02:55.59Twingyhe knows more dynamics and control theory than I do
02:56.05Twingyhe doesn't do much programming or electronics
02:56.19Twingyso we divide the work accordingly
02:56.36Axman6good good
02:56.48Twingyso he's learning and I'm learning
02:57.02Twingyit's a lot for one person to do it all
02:57.13Twingywith 2 people you can get it done in about 2 years
02:57.18Axman6yeah, that's why i asked
02:57.42Axman6also kinda dangerous too. need someone else to check for mistakes
02:57.53Twingyautopilots have been around for 20 years, but it's still virgin territory as far as I'm concerned
02:58.02Twingyit's very dangerous on the larger vehicles
02:58.11Twingywe're about to integrate one into our $250k RMAX
02:58.25TwingyI'm working with a $1500 e-raptor
02:59.32TwingyI'm still a noob as far as this stuff goes
02:59.43Twingyit'll be a while before I'm any good at this stuff
03:17.03Axman6i was messing with mathematica last night. lotsa fun once i understoof it a bit
03:17.07Axman6d*
03:17.40Axman6using it for physics at uni, taking astronomical photos, using mathematica to average them to reduce the signal to noice ratio
03:17.45Axman6noise*
03:17.47Axman6rawr
03:20.07Twingywe use matlab and simulink here
03:22.24Axman6ANU did a deal with Wolfram so that students can get a copy and install it on their home computers for free, which is pretty awesome
03:24.31poolioahh. I have to learn Matlab over the next week :(
03:24.58Axman6http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3563/microsoft_excel_revolutionary_3d_.php?page=3 <-- DirectX at its best, heh
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15:21.00brlcad:)
15:21.05brlcadhowdy yukonbob
15:32.31yukonbobhey brlcad :)
15:33.33yukonbobwiress here is slower than fsck :P
15:33.38yukonbob*wireless
15:38.37yukonbobcheck ya later, folks :)
16:02.01brlcadcya
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21:03.32*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release 7.12.0 coming soon to a desktop near you
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03:58.36*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release 7.12.0 coming soon to a desktop near you
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11:38.53Z80-Boyme as well
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16:59.46starseekerick
17:02.13brlcadit's a good one
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18:35.11yukonbobheh -- nothing to see here -- move along
18:50.44brlcad:)
18:50.48brlcadbusy day
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080310

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13:04.41yukonbob(probably another busy day "in the background")
13:30.18brlcadpossibly
13:32.12yukonbob;)
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13:42.50starseek1rbrlcad: Around?
13:55.46yukonbobhey starseek1r
14:00.53brlcadstarseek1r: hello
14:02.03starseek1rhowdy bob :-)
14:03.01starseek1rSwitched all the graphics to white backgrounds - I can send you an example pdf if you want to take a look
14:03.25starseek1rbrlcad:  working on the text edits now
14:06.59starseek1rbrlcad:  What's the trick for getting a different color background in an xterm on a Mac?
14:08.07brlcadsame as it is for xterm anywhere else :)
14:09.14brlcadyou can either reverse the video or set xterm .Xdefaults settings or as cmdline options on invocation, etc
14:09.46brlcadeasiest is to probably just modify the invocation line and add the -bg color to the command it executes
14:10.26starseek1rcool
14:10.29starseek1rthanks :-)
14:10.43brlcadApplications -> Customize Menu .. duplicate/edit the name like with a -bg color
14:11.26starseek1rAh - much better
14:11.30starseek1rbe right back...
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14:13.09starseek1rbrlcad:  Did you want a look a the no-background option for the pdf?
14:13.41brlcadhm?
14:14.39brlcadif it's worth looking at sure, otherwise I don't recall it having a background in the first place :)
14:15.48starseek1rSorry - i mean the mged screenshots
14:16.49starseek1rI switched most of them to white background, but I'm afraid it's the same effect as before - not clear they're separate images on the same line
14:17.30brlcadthe black was fine (good), just needed a separator
14:17.54starseek1rAh - OK
14:18.28brlcadcould either add an image border or an image separator (actual image between them) or find a way to inject separation via style/tags
14:18.43brlcadyeah, if it's just one image, just edit the image
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14:42.46``Erikblragh
14:43.54starseek1r``Erik:  Indeed
14:44.25``Erikis brlcad in the office today?
14:44.32starseek1rNot yet
14:46.00brlcad``Erik: no
14:49.30``Erikaight, I'll blabber here, looking for a list of "collaborative partners" and major projects BRL-CAD has impacted O.o
14:49.48``Erikshit to throw on a poster for generals and "those types" to see
14:51.20``Erik<-- has managed to ignore all that stuff :D
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15:28.37starseek1rFriggin Mac X server...
15:31.31yukonbobfriggin everything, somedays :P
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17:40.59pooliobrlcad: is brlcad doing gsoc?
17:48.59yukonbobpoolio: I don't know if it's finalized, but there's definately talk of it...
17:49.55poolioneat-o.
17:50.16poolioI hope I haven't ruined the chances of such a thing happening ;0
17:50.21poolios/0/\)
17:50.55yukonbobpoolio: why -- did you do something to shutdown google? ;)
17:52.39brlcadpoolio: don't know yet
17:53.18poolioyukonbob: in rainbows stuff?
17:53.19brlcadbut on that note, if folks here are interested in being a mentor for a student, or even just being involved in the selection process (if we are accepted), let me know
17:53.36brlcadthe sooner the better
17:55.56yukonbobpoolio: no -- was some alternate kid-a
17:56.12louipcthat's a weird album
17:56.18yukonbobkid-a ++
17:56.21yukonbobok-computer++
17:56.25yukonbobamnesiac++
17:56.34yukonbobin-rainbows++
17:56.55yukonbobhail-to-the-theif wtf
17:57.03yukonbobbends --
17:57.13louipco.O
17:57.17yukonbob*theif
17:57.21yukonbob*thief
17:57.22yukonbob;)
18:04.54pooliobends wasn't _that_ bad
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21:22.26``Eriktime to go bury a fish O.o
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23:09.04brlcadme is going to shoot me :)
23:09.38brlcad(first things first, though, ldap)
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01:20.01``Erikwhyfor a full redesign?
01:20.24``ErikI thought it was my job to be a difficult antagonistic ass :/
01:28.40brlcadbecause the more I use it, the more I don't like certain aspects
01:28.54brlcadit's a good first stab, enough to unveil still
01:29.21brlcadand the entire backend is slickness how he has drupal+media using the same style
01:30.14brlcadI spent almost the entire day today tweaking things that bugged me .. probably broken windows rendering again (can someone check?)
01:31.16brlcadbut after release and gsoc submission, I think I'll start on a fresh redesign that is a little easier to maintain hopefully
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05:12.55brlcadalrighty.. drupal and all modules once again updated
05:22.24CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30502 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
05:22.24CIA-32BRL-CAD: bob improved the keybinding behavior of the geometry browser so that you no
05:22.24CIA-32BRL-CAD: longer have to keep right-click depressed while left-clicking selections. now
05:22.24CIA-32BRL-CAD: you keep right click depressed and when released on an option, that option is
05:22.25CIA-32BRL-CAD: selected.
05:25.10CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30503 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob also made the Geometry Browser redraw any objects being displayed after edits are performed with a nice lil 'eval draw [who]'.
05:30.41brlcadholy cow
05:30.57brlcad73 features since the last release ..
05:31.00brlcadthat's the most to date
05:31.23brlcadsave for the old releases that were several years apart
07:24.27CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30504 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: include final release notes that mention the windows enhancements, clone/traker, intaval, and the mintration to subversion. sleeping on it, but should be last step to tag trunk as 7.12
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12:14.55Axman6"Boss// Can you guys go through the site and make sure there aren't any bugs. I don't want the alpha testers to be held up by any bugs." heh
12:16.45archivisthehe get new boss
12:17.22Axman6luckily that's just a quote from the net
12:21.19Axman6http://www.derailer.org/clientquotes/?qid=290
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13:29.45brlcadAxman6: funny
14:00.07yukonbobbrlcad: got some spare cycles?
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14:28.57brlcadyukonbob: whatcha need?
14:39.48CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30505 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/ (tcl/unix/Makefile.in tk/unix/Makefile.in): stray @
14:39.51brlcadthey're not really spare, but I can answer some things ;)
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15:22.34CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30506 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Fixed a typo.
15:44.45CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30507 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: Add note from class - request for 'last chance' checking on killtree commands with wildcards
16:13.00CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30508 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: If in view-only mode, the primaryToolbar and cmd components do not exist.
16:28.14CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30509 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: Add note from class - more flexibility in obj.s[num1-num2] command line file matching would be nice
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17:31.24CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30510 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: Add note about button_font not being found in Linux
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20:52.11CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30511 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: Remove previous notes. Discussed with Sean - these behaviors are as expected given normal command line behavior.
21:18.16*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release 7.12.0 being tagged today
21:21.24brlcadbuild testing now
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22:03.07CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30512 10/brlcad/trunk/include/Makefile.am: ugh, dg.h is missing from the dist
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080312

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080312

00:02.20*** join/#brlcad Tieku (n=Joe@cpc1-leed14-0-0-cust631.leed.cable.ntl.com)
00:02.23Tiekuhi
00:02.52Tiekuhas brl always been avilable as open source?
00:03.04archivistnot allways
00:03.41Tiekuwhen did it make the change?
00:03.41archivistnearly two years ago iirc
00:03.41Tieku2004
00:04.16archivistbut its a 20+ year old project
00:04.16Tiekuthanks
00:05.05Tiekuarchivist: you using the software before it became opensource?
00:05.10Tiekuwere you*
00:05.11archivistno
00:05.47Tiekuin your opinion is it the best opensource option for a solid 3d modeling package?
00:06.14brlcadTieku: any particular reason for the question?
00:07.20brlcadit's only been released as open source for about three years, though pretty much anyone could get the entire package (including printed docs and source code) for free since it started
00:07.29Tiekubrlcad: i'm a design student with an interest in open source (even open design) and i'm looking for a cad package to learn. i've searched a few times over the years and only now come across brl
00:08.09brlcaddesign isn't one of our strongest points yet but we are probably the "best" open source option out there, particularly for solid modeling
00:08.28brlcadhave you seen the industry diagram on the website?  that gives an idea of the domains we presently cover
00:08.48Tiekugreat to hear. I am reading over the new website now
00:08.51brlcaddesign is one of the areas I'm most interested in supporting (personally), but there's a lot of work to do interface-wise
00:09.11brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png
00:09.20Tiekujust out of interest. have you come across the reprap project?
00:09.41Tiekuthank brl, looking now
00:10.20brlcadyeah
00:10.43brlcadone of the reprap guys hangs out here from time to time
00:11.21Tiekucool, i'm working on one for my final year project.
00:11.37brlcadTieku: do you write code? :)
00:13.23Tiekubrlcad: only in the area of internet services, php, xml, soap, actionscripting - I am hoping to make the jump towards desktop apps in the future
00:13.50brlcadgreat, maybe you'll consider helping out on BRL-CAD :)
00:14.00brlcaddevelopers are what we need the most
00:14.46Tiekui'd love too - but we'll have to see if im upto speed first :) i'm certainly a programmer at heart. only on a design cource to better understand darn humans
00:15.25archivistthat needs a lifetime
00:15.59Tiekui believe that :)
00:16.03brlcadI believe that problem is NP complete too :)
00:16.25TiekuNP?
00:17.55TiekuI'm saving the industry diagram, it communicates the world of cad application nicely. cheers
00:18.21brlcadthanks
00:18.30brlcadtook quite a while to compose properly ;)
00:28.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30513 10/brlcad/trunk/db/Makefile.am: (log message trimmed)
00:28.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: yet one more stab at accounting for parallel make problems where the libtool
00:28.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: wrapper script is invoked by too many threads before it has time to generate the
00:28.09CIA-32BRL-CAD: lt-asc2g binary. this fixes the problem by creating a lockfile mechanism that
00:28.10CIA-32BRL-CAD: invokes asc2g first on just the operators.asc file (cause it's so damn small)
00:28.12CIA-32BRL-CAD: before running everyone else. seems to work like a charm though I bet there is
00:28.14CIA-32BRL-CAD: still an exceptionally rare race condition possible if the operators.g
00:33.27TiekuI've just installed what i thought was BRL_CAD - What is the relationship between BRL-CAD, Archer and MGED?
00:35.27TiekuNo worries - i think im on the trail of the answer...
00:38.31brlcadMGED and Archer are two of the tools in BRL-CAD
00:38.40brlcadBRL-CAD is a suite of tools, more than 400 overall
00:39.17brlcadmost of them are command-line processing tools (for converting between geometry and image formats, for example) but mged and archer are two of our GUI-based tools
00:39.19TiekuWould it be acurate to say MGED is the primary tool?
00:39.45brlcadarcher is a prototype of a new modeling interface, most of the power currently in use though is in mged
00:39.54brlcadmged is what most of the docs on the website are for
00:40.08brlcadthere is a very extensive set of tutorials to help get you started
00:40.20Tiekureading now :) cheers
00:40.31brlcad(particularly the one labelled "Volume II -- Introduction to MGED"
00:58.11TiekuBRL looks very impressive. I'm gona take  a break but keep working through the tutorial lessons. thanks for your help
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06:11.51brlcadit's a fair bit more simple now and confirmed on ie6, firefox, and safari .. still need a ie7 test if someone has it on hand
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06:54.24CIA-34BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30514 10/brlcad/trunk/db/Makefile.am: clear out the lockfile and any .g's we are scheduled to build
06:56.13brlcadif folks would kindly test the website, see if there are any *egregious* problems (things rendering outright wrong only) .. please let me know -- trying to take the site live today
06:56.25brlcadhttp://my.brlcad.org for the uninitiated
07:03.15clock_mybrlcadspace?
07:37.50brlcada temp holder until it goes live as brlcad.org
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07:59.01alex_jonibrlcad: a minor nag on the poll
07:59.20alex_joniI get the sliders behind the summary on the right, snapshot in a second
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08:00.11alex_jonihttp://imagebin.org/14859
08:03.04alex_jonialso History for the wiki pages is not rendering greatly here
08:03.34alex_jonihttp://imagebin.org/14860
08:05.54alex_joniI get the last one in Opera 9.24, Firefox 2.0.0.12, IE 7.0.5730.11
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09:35.23archivistsearch box takes up screen space that cant be scrolled out the way
10:04.39alex_joniarchivist: that's a feature :P
10:04.50archivistew
10:05.40archiviston some pages its not obvious you need to scroll, so its a UI issue
10:21.37alex_joniguess that's personal taste, I always use the scroll button, so I don't really look if there's a scroll bar or not
10:21.48alex_joniotoh a resolution of 1920x1200 might hide this issue :P
10:22.21alex_jonibrlcad: did you just change something?
10:23.27alex_joninot it looks like this: http://imagebin.org/14864
10:27.47archivistwhat I see here on the debian box www.archivist.info/brlcad.png
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13:48.12brlcadthanks guys
13:49.28brlcadthere are still a few bugs, and I'm not happy with the fixed footer, but the alternative was just way too buggy -- I think I'm going to change it to what I came up for IE6, which is something just a whole lot simpler
14:20.23alex_jonibrlcad: still.. I wonder what happened as it looked fine this morning even on opera
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14:45.45brlcadprobably reloaded your cache
14:45.55brlcadthere were no changes until just now
14:57.13``Erikon to a release, now?
15:28.34alex_jonibrlcad: dunno about the cache, but it still looks wrong on opera (http://imagebin.org/14864), it worked right this morning (roughly 8-9 hours ago) and I haven't been looking at my.brlcad.org for a while (so I doubt I had anything in cache)
16:08.50brlcad``Erik: not yet, jra had a build error I'm looking at, libbu linkage on debian
16:08.56brlcadalex_joni: try now
16:09.20brlcadthere have been lots and lots of changes so it's been in flux
16:09.53alex_joniyup, much better
16:10.15alex_jonidid you remove the search bar?
16:10.28brlcadyes
16:10.34``Erikohhhhyeah, um, I bet his error is because he ran debians busted libtool on it
16:10.36brlcadit was just causing way too many problems
16:11.00``Eriklosing the tcl link or something
16:11.06brlcadso search is just disabled outright for now (what the hell are people really going to search for anyways.. there's no content loaded yet)
16:11.25brlcad``Erik: yeah, also org deadline is in a couple hours, so I'm working that
16:11.39``Erikaight
16:11.58alex_jonibrlcad: nothing else I can spot at the moment..
16:11.58brlcadwanted to get the website at least stable for the submission
16:12.08brlcadalex_joni: cool, thanks
16:12.16alex_joninp
16:12.18brlcad``Erik: can you do an ie6 check?
16:12.37brlcadi tried to avoid the things that makes ie6 cry/puke
16:14.01alex_jonibrlcad: I tested here on Opera, Firefox and IE7
16:14.09brlcadhow'd ie7 look?
16:14.22alex_jonilooks good so far (except IE7 which has an odd font for the MOTD)
16:14.35brlcadheh, wondered about that
16:14.35alex_jonibut the rest looks ok even in IE7
16:14.46alex_jonilooks wild-west-like
16:14.55alex_jonicare for a snapshot?
16:14.59brlcadsure
16:15.18brlcadit's set to 'fantasy' which is usually a subtle cursiveish font
16:15.36alex_jonihttp://imagebin.org/14870
16:15.38brlcadcursive usually pulls up something too extreme
16:15.50brlcadew
16:15.54alex_joniit's not quite easy to read imo
16:17.48brlcadwhat does it look like now?
16:21.33alex_joniway better
16:22.10alex_jonihttp://imagebin.org/14871
16:22.50alex_jonieven firefox is better now (not that condensed)
16:23.05brlcadhm, okay
16:23.12brlcadis that better than .. now?
16:23.49alex_joninow it's great on all 3
16:23.59alex_joniopera/firefox/ie7
16:24.10brlcadi mean which do you like more
16:24.17alex_jonilast one
16:24.20brlcadokay
16:24.29alex_joniI mean.. the one that is right now
16:24.40brlcadthen that's the one it'll be
16:24.43brlcadthx
16:26.01alex_jonithere is another really minor thing in IE7, the toolbox on the right looks a bit different than Firefox/Opera
16:26.09alex_jonithe text is indented a bit
16:26.40alex_joniit's visible in http://imagebin.org/14871
16:26.53alex_joni(I wouldn't worry about that though..)
16:26.55brlcadyeah, I was just looking at that
16:27.53brlcadthere, that should be a little better
16:28.57alex_joniyup, better
16:29.34alex_jonihttp://imagebin.org/14872
16:30.07brlcadyeah, that'll do
16:30.19brlcadgreat, done for now .. now on to the submission
16:34.53alex_jonibbl
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17:28.20``Erikummm
17:29.21``Erikhopefully no one at google is dumb enough to be using ie6 O.o :D
17:30.31archivistmah win2k can has ie6
17:30.53archivistand mah box at home ie5!!
17:31.02archivistbut thats not on the web
17:32.01``Erikyeah, it seems to look ok... as ok as can be expected
17:32.27``Erikugh, no wonder everything looks horribly aliased, 1024x768
17:32.55``Erikno overlap issues or anything
17:34.28``Erikummm
17:34.34``Erikthe navigation bar in the top right corner
17:34.46``Erikon firefox/mac, it looks very centered
17:35.06``Erikon ie6/winxp, there's a chunk of space above the text
17:42.22``Erikhttp://bz.bzflag.bz/~erik/mybrlcad.png
17:43.56``Erikthat's the only thing I could spot via my quick perusal
17:44.58``Erikhrmmmmm
17:45.23``Erikno alt tag on the main page image?
17:46.10``Erik<-- has no style and no class, yo
18:20.21brlcadhttp://my.brlcad.org/private/Googlefight2007.pdf
18:21.02brlcadfunny stuff
18:28.44``Erikwow
18:28.46``Erikphp, wow
18:53.13brlcadWhew! .. 7 minutes to spare
18:53.34``Erikbah, that's loads of time, you coulda taken a few minutes to kick out a release
18:53.37brlcadyeah, php can't really be filtered .. I mean the vast majority of projects use it
18:53.43``Erikall worrying about deadlines you're miles from, sheesh :D
18:54.25brlcadthat was pretty damn frantic .. needed a couple more hours but 90% of whether it's accepted will be decided within 10 minutes
18:54.31``Erik<-- notes that there's a distinct lack of information on exactly where the data came from... or how exactly it was massaged :)
18:55.02brlcadGoogefight :)
18:55.29brlcadwhich really is just the same as searching for any of those terms and looking at the result count
18:55.32``Erikiirc, someone enters two phrases to analyze
18:55.38``Erikwhere'd you get your list of phrases? :D
18:55.49brlcadthat is the list of phrases
18:55.57brlcadexcept where it says modified
18:56.03``Erikyes, I know... where'd they come from?
18:56.11brlcadfrom last year's participants
18:56.19brlcadthat's what *they* said their name is
18:56.33``Erikahhh, the top X of that year, ok
18:56.36brlcadbut then of course some of them make no sense or need tweaking to get a valid result (like Gallery)
18:56.53brlcadhttp://code.google.com/soc/2007/
18:58.51``Erik<-- just thinks there should be some footnote or something that says all phrases came from GSoC '07 to clarify *shrug* was my big question on looking at it
18:59.03``Erikknowwhudahmean, verne?
18:59.30brlcadwell, the intended audience is the gsoc program manager
18:59.36brlcadI think she'll recognize it ;)
18:59.36``Erikah, ok
19:01.05brlcadsome of them are heavily biased unfortunately, but then most statistics are
19:01.11brlcadit was included mostly for humor
19:01.18``Erikobviously :D
19:01.27brlcadand to hint-hint-nude-nude at them that we fit right in
19:01.38brlcadheh, nude
19:01.40``Erik'nude nude'??? wtf goes on at gsoc???
19:01.41brlcads/nude/nudge/
19:01.49``Erikuh, nudge nude? O.o
19:01.50``Erik:D
19:01.54brlcadi know where my mind wants to be
19:01.56``Erikeven worse
19:02.06``Erikor better, based on frame of reference
19:02.28brlcadcreative commons is probably the most egregious one on the list
19:02.38brlcadno way they're that big, but their terms are so general
19:04.27brlcadwordpress seems massively inflated too
19:08.55``Erikor a lot of those php pages say they'll release the art into creative commons
19:31.33brlcadremoved our adjustment since I noticed too many false positives if you search way deep
19:31.51brlcadannotated the adjustments used
19:36.33``Erikum, do you have a high res of the rise stryker and/or bradley rtwizard image?
19:36.44brlcadhm
19:36.50brlcadsomewhere
19:37.22brlcadhttp://my.brlcad.org/OLD/images/stryker_slat.png  that's as high-res as he rendered
19:37.32brlcadso not really print-quality
19:37.38brlcadbut maybe more than what you have
19:39.50brlcadhm, I apparently do have a 200dpi version, but iirc I just scaled the original and color-corrected
19:51.12``Erikwhat about the 'best' images for the rtwizard and modeller screenshots?
19:58.08brlcadmodeller is big
19:58.36brlcadhttp://my.brlcad.org/OLD/images/mged.jpg
19:58.45brlcadfor a screenshot at least
19:59.25``Erikjpg? eeps
19:59.54brlcadrtwizard would probably be easier to just capture something new
20:00.15brlcadusing havoc or m35
20:01.43``Erikhrmmm
20:02.10``Erikneat, errors trying to start rtwizard
20:02.22brlcadit doesn't like system stuff
20:03.03``Erik'cept on my mac, I forced it to install tcl, tk, etc
20:03.22``ErikError in startup script: invalid command name "RtWizard::IntroPage"
20:04.42brlcadthen maybe zero-d tclIndex files
20:05.11``Erikum
20:05.18``Erikit doesn't start on, uh, the middle penguin, either
20:05.23``Erikwhich is a 7.10.4 distribution
20:07.06``Erikhm, started there, but locked up
20:17.41``Erikand it just plain doesn't work right there, heh
20:17.46``Erikwow :)
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20:24.21``Erikwow
20:24.30``Erikthat's bitrot and a half *sigh*
20:27.01brlcadit's not rotted.. it was originally implemented that way ;)
20:27.16brlcadit's just not got any better either
20:27.26brlcadmost of the problems are build setup, though
20:28.14brlcadnot actually in rtwizard .. rtwizard's biggest downside is that it was easier to add menu hooks instead of forward/backward button panels for the steps .. so it's rather counter-intuitive for the new user
20:28.20brlcadbut it does do the trick
20:38.31``Erikheh
20:38.50``Erikchanging settings updates the wireframe view, but does not change the rendered view.
20:39.23``Eriknamely the perspective big... ortho is counterintuitive I think
20:39.26``Erikbit
20:43.15brlcadbrlcad.org is now migrated
20:43.19``Erikw00t
20:43.59alex_joniwhee
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21:15.56``Erikhttp://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSL0552076620080305?feedType=RSS&feedName=oddlyEnoughNews&rpc=22&sp=true
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080313

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080313

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03:58.28starseekercondition isn't so hot on the railroad one, but still pretty cool
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12:02.07yukonbob...reads scrollback
12:07.16yukonbobthe attribution for 'the future exists first in the imagination, then in the will, then in reality' is to "mike muss" -- is that supposed to be "mike muuss"?#
12:07.51yukonbob(from screenshot at http://imagebin.org/14870)
12:10.55louipchey the site is looking better
13:04.03brlcadthat's an old stylesheet
13:05.18brlcadoh, or you're just commenting on the spelling .. yes, that's a egregious typo
13:05.21brlcadfixed
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13:14.50CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30515 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: Modified wdb_prep_dbip() to allow database creation if database doesn't exist.
13:16.08``Erikheh
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13:46.14CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30516 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Modified the initDefaultBindings method to not always use itk_component(mged).
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16:19.16yukonbob(from the Oxford rain)
16:19.17yukonbob:P
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18:39.05``Erik"certified pubic accountants"
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080314

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03:21.37brlcadegads .. that's just cruel... :)
03:31.31brlcadso we made the short list .. but we still might not make the final
03:32.02iraytraceHey, short list is a great step forward!!!
03:32.43brlcadproblem is the short list still has about 50 projects too many
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13:55.54CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30517 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_metaball.c: tweak bounding volume stuff to cope with different methods
15:01.06``Erikbwahahaha http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Stargate-Code-of-the-Replicators.aspx
15:01.55``ErikI knew replicators were supposed to be evil, but damn, I had no idea
15:23.22archivistwtf! what did you do to the dailywtf I got connection refused!
15:25.11archivistI assume they dont like deep links
15:50.23clock_URL is useless
15:50.32clock_An URL that works for one doesn't work another
15:50.39clock_work for another one
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16:40.16CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30518 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Remove SDB (SURVICE Database) related code.
17:04.58SWPadnosok
17:05.02SWPadnosargh
17:10.34CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30519 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tk/library/panedwindow.tcl: Hack to get around the occassional complaining from the panedwindow about "identify" being a bad option.
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18:13.11``Erikthey seemed to have a fit of 'down' for a bit :/
18:13.28``Erikit was probably starting when I pasted it, I noticed the screen shot image took a LONG time to load
18:31.19CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03g2asc * r30520 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: dpk worked for BRL.
18:38.27CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03g2asc * r30521 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: Mike worked for BRL first, then ARL.
18:43.54CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30522 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: cliff now contributes as qri too .. probably need a way to indicate open source contributions separately
18:46.53CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03g2asc * r30523 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS:
18:46.53CIA-33BRL-CAD: Added BRL affiliation to developers Moss, Dykstra, Applin, Kennedy, Gwynn, Stay, Hanes, Butler, A
18:46.53CIA-33BRL-CAD: nderson, Tanenbaum.
18:51.01``Erikpheer teh hist0riez
19:32.42PrezKennedyi know most of those people!
19:33.18CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30524 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Continuing xml conversion - appendix contents have been largely removed and will be re-added later. Remainder is now valid according to nXML mode, but will need more formatting work.
19:43.08CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30525 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/typein.c: default sweat is 1 in a metaball, not 0 (0 is not viable for Blinn method blob)
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20:11.29``Erikwell, no wonder it's not working... a variable is getting stomped
20:11.49``Erikgoes from being 1.0 to 1.99141e-314
20:19.57``Eriknow who the heck is messin' with my ball sweat?
20:28.57CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30526 10/brlcad/trunk/db/Makefile.am:
20:28.57CIA-33BRL-CAD: fix a problem that bsd make made apparent where there were multiple rules for
20:28.57CIA-33BRL-CAD: operators.g (direct and via .asc.g) causing a cyclic reference. Instead, use
20:28.57CIA-33BRL-CAD: the same build approach but create an operators.asc2g file instead of
20:28.57CIA-33BRL-CAD: operators.g; additionally make that file dependent upon asc2g so we're sure to
20:28.59CIA-33BRL-CAD: keep updating the lt binary wrapper as needed.
20:29.22brlcadI ain't touched your balls man
20:29.26``Erikhehehe
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20:35.57``Erikgreetings, leebert
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20:43.20iraytraceHmmm.  I guess that means I'm the one making it cold around here?  Oh, wait, that's leibert.
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20:51.10``Erik70 minutes until vacation O.o
20:51.24iraytracecongrats!
20:51.30iraytraceHow long?
20:52.17``Erikjust a week
20:58.56CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30527 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_metaball.c: fix up output a little
21:02.13CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30528 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/if.c: report value for obliquity if out of valid range.
21:02.46brlcaderhm, sounds like a NEWS change
21:05.14``Erikwhich, the nirt one?
21:05.44brlcadyeah
21:05.50``Erikit's a shot/normal sanity check, it shouldn't happen... O.o
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21:11.45brlcadokay
21:11.54brlcadcommit msg sounded diff
21:13.02brlcadyay, bob's done
21:13.16brlcadnow to finish checking on the ubererrors
21:13.17``Erik<-- tries to think of a valid time when the obliquity would be out of a valid range O.o :D
21:14.12brlcaddoesn't it also report exit obliquities?
21:14.21brlcads/doesn't/does/
21:14.35brlcadif it does, the obliquity could be anything
21:14.44``Erikum, in a flipped segment
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21:15.12brlcadalso .. what it does on an inverted arb or inverted bot
21:15.17``Erikthis is a bu_exit() condition
21:16.12``Erikand I just added the naughty value to the fprintf(stderr,"Error: ...");
21:16.41``Eriknot changing any logic, just adding a detail during flaming death
21:17.08brlcadahhhh
21:18.05``Erikapparently, a normal of NaN,NaN,NaN isn't useful in finding obliquities O.o :D
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21:18.56brlcadnice :)
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21:21.33``Erik<-- not quite sure why nirt cannot find the normal but rt works fine
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21:25.23``Erik<-- scratches his chin
21:25.25``Erikthat might do it
21:33.01``Eriklee, did you see http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Stargate-Code-of-the-Replicators.aspx ?
21:44.32``Erikhehehe http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s87/Evilways75/STupidMustang.jpg
22:00.45CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30529 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac:
22:00.45CIA-33BRL-CAD: add protections and notification to users that installing into /usr is generally
22:00.45CIA-33BRL-CAD: a pretty bad idea (particularly for those linux folks). require that they
22:00.45CIA-33BRL-CAD: interactively confirm that they would like to continue (by having them type
22:00.45CIA-33BRL-CAD: 'yes'/'no'). there is probably additional specific checks that could be added
22:00.48CIA-33BRL-CAD: to make sure libdir and prefix aren't different, but it's a good first stab.
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06:04.29brlcadhowdy yukonbob
06:04.37brlcadwhat's your utc offset?
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13:32.28GabiHello, need help to draw 2d plans
14:59.04CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30530 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: annotate all of the various individuals that have made non-affiliated contributions as open source contributors.
15:02.10yukonbobbrlcad: re: utc -- back to PDT :)
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20:50.20starseekerbrlcad:  Is there a way to create accounts for the gallery yet?
20:52.50MinuteElectronas in the gallery2 on the website?
20:53.15starseekeryes
20:53.28MinuteElectroni'm sure that was already possible, let me look into it for you
20:53.46starseekerthanks
20:56.10MinuteElectronhmm - well, for some retarded reason there are already 50 users, but I don't understand why
20:56.50MinuteElectroni'll make you an account now (password in pm)
20:57.36starseekerthanks :-)
21:00.29MinuteElectronthere we go.
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21:01.36MinuteElectroni think the excess accounts might be due to the drupal plugin
21:01.38MinuteElectronnot sure though
21:02.01MinuteElectroni'm going to work on things next week thouugh - making things work in IE8, some tidying up etc.
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21:21.45starseekerThere we go:  http://brlcad.org/gallery2
21:22.39starseekerNot as cool as Stryker, but it's a start
21:31.03starseekerHmm - OpenMoko has put ProE files now as well
21:31.45starseekerfor their newest phone case
22:15.26Z80-BoyDo you also regularly read in Wikipochondria?
22:16.44alex_joni<PROTECTED>
22:16.56alex_jonigrr.. sorry :)
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03:35.06*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
03:35.06*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release 7.12.0 being tagged today
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06:43.29brlcadstarseeker: very nice!
06:44.10brlcadMinuteElectron: if you didn't notice, the site went live a couple days ago
06:44.28brlcad(sans ldap at the moment, and with some style simplification as you may notice)
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10:57.16MinuteElectronoh
10:57.55MinuteElectronwhy the simplification?
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14:38.23noriashello
14:38.30noriashm..
14:52.54*** join/#brlcad norias (n=Evil@pool-72-65-215-127.pitbpa.east.verizon.net)
14:53.27brlcadMinuteElectron: mostly because it still wasn't fully behaving properly on ie6 .. and to fix ie6 *reliably* made things worse for the compliant places
14:54.56brlcadMinuteElectron: plus the style just really is sitting stale with me the more I use it.. so less is more ;)
14:56.02brlcadso it can start to get populated and the style can be fixed later .. really just wanted to finally take it live (so people could see all your hard efforts) :)
14:57.21brlcadin the process of fixing ie6, I just dropped the footer and simplified the blocks down to what you see, later did the same for the iphone .. then I really started to like that even more for everywhere
14:57.26brlcadhello norias
15:01.45noriashi
15:02.40noriashow are you doing, brlcad?
15:02.50brlcadpretty good, thanks
15:03.33noriasare you one of the brlcad developers?
15:03.41brlcadnods
15:03.46noriasnice work
15:03.52brlcadthanks
15:04.01brlcadare you interested in development?
15:04.06noriasjust grabbed it yesterday, i'm a machinist trying to learn CAD
15:04.18noriasi used to... maybe a decade ago...
15:04.28noriasdevelop minor pieces of software
15:04.37noriasdatabase stuff for small businesses
15:04.42noriasdoubt i could touch this stuff
15:05.27brlcadoh, don't hold yourself back -- there's lots of levels and areas of development for just about any skill level :)
15:05.37brlcadotherwise, glad to hear it
15:05.38noriasright on :)
15:06.16noriasfigured i'd hang out in here and see what gets talked about
15:06.25noriasseems like a good way to get a feel for the software
15:07.39noriasin about 24 hours, the only thing i've noticed that i'd think would be cool
15:07.48noriasbut probably not useful to professional users
15:08.07noriaswould be the capability of importing the Sketchup model format
15:15.28brlcadyeah, that would be interesting to have
15:15.53brlcadthere are a slew of converters on the hopeful "todo" list
15:16.00noriasi bet
15:16.08brlcadbut the hot item this year is a STEP converter, and that's a pretty big order
15:16.28noriasyeah,from what i understand of that format
15:16.32noriasit sounds rather big
15:16.39noriasthat's the OSI standard, right?
15:16.40brlcadadds sketchup to http://brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html
15:16.51brlcadno, it's an ISO standard
15:16.55noriaser.
15:16.57brlcad:)
15:17.01noriasyeah, more coffee :)
15:18.05noriasi'm playing with the DXF export right now
15:19.01noriasit's nice that this is available for mac
15:19.12noriasit kinda seems like mac is ignored when it comes to CAD
15:19.13noriasof any sort
15:21.26brlcadyeah, I'm really hoping we can finally get native working here in the next couple months
15:21.33brlcadso it's not reliant upon x11
15:22.04brlcadwhich will make it a lot easier to have it install into /Applications as well
15:22.15noriasoh, hmm, that'd be neat
15:22.29noriasi'm pretty unix-familiar so the current way doesn't really bother me at all
15:22.36noriasbut i can see where that'd be nice
15:22.59brlcadyeah, the idea would be maybe three icons -- one being MGED, another being Archer, and a third for a "BRL-CAD Terminal"
15:23.06noriassounds like a big project... or is the GUI pretty thin?
15:23.20brlcadit's fairly neatly abstracted
15:23.36noriasi played around with OBJ-C on OS X
15:23.41noriasseems like a really nice system
15:23.54brlcadmged and archer both go through Tk and AquaTk finally seems to be working now (it's been too buggy)
15:24.09noriasoh, ok
15:25.12brlcadif we're accepted into the summer of code, things are going to be really busy this summer...
15:25.33noriasthe whole google deal?
15:25.41brlcadbut we would hopefully get two or three really interested students working on some good stuff
15:25.45brlcadyeah
15:26.03noriasyeah, that'd be really interesting
15:26.16noriasi have a buddy who designs robots for a living
15:26.19brlcadorgs are announced tomorrow, so we'll know soon enough
15:26.23noriasi'm getting tempted to toss him a link
15:26.56noriasnot really sure what sort of software he's using
15:26.59brlcadour biggest "problem" right now is that the main gui is .. expert friendly .. sufficiently efficient for those that are trained in it
15:27.18noriasi can see that
15:27.18brlcadbut really hard for new users to learn, very steep learning curve
15:27.41noriaswith a software suite that does so much though...
15:27.42brlcadthat's something we've recognized for years, been working on fixing
15:27.51brlcadyeah, the power's mostly all there
15:27.57noriascan you really expect to simplify it that much?
15:28.08brlcadnot simplify, make it more friendly ;)
15:28.39noriasfriendly is good :)
15:29.01brlcadright now if you want to "figure out" how to do something you know it can do, you either end up needing to go through the volumes of documentation, asking an existing expert user (forums, mailing list, irc), or looking at the source code
15:29.08noriasi think i'm trying to make this do things it's not designed to do...
15:29.08brlcadthe app itself doesn't really help you
15:29.32brlcadit should
15:29.42noriasi can see your point, which is something, is just something someone like me is willing to do
15:29.46noriasbut alot of others wouldn't
15:29.49brlcadit's designed to be a swiss army knife of tools for many many purposes :)
15:30.46noriasoddly enough, my end goal is to design military-style rifles
15:31.10noriasi became fascinated with their design during my short time in the National Guard
15:31.30brlcadcool
15:31.52noriasalmost makes sense to use a DoD program... :)
15:33.01brlcadyeah .. no money on usability, all on core features.. :)
15:33.22brlcadit's primarily since we've gone open source that usability has become a hot priority
15:33.35noriasi can see that
15:33.36brlcadbeen an issue for years, but always falls under the radar
15:33.44brlcads/radar/prioritization/
15:33.49noriassince there's in-house training, i'd assume
15:33.53noriasfor the internal users
15:33.57brlcadand in-house experts
15:34.00noriasright
15:34.19brlcadif something isn't working right, you can walk over and talk to a core developer any time
15:34.48brlcadneed a tweak that does X, you might get it today or be told of a workaround that's sufficient (or even better)
15:36.24brlcadwith open source, though.. it's desirable to get more core devs from all over working on the project
15:38.20noriaslooking through your list of ideas...
15:38.27noriasyou want it to spit out g-code?
15:39.27CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30531 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: include common.h
15:41.03brlcadyes, that has been oft requested
15:41.08CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30532 10/brlcad/trunk/include/brep.h: minor cleanup investigating the C++ linkage failure seen on Fedora.
15:41.44noriasg-code... seems like that'd take... a few steps
15:41.55brlcadcertainly something doable, shouldn't be "too" hard really given we can fully sample any geometry
15:42.38noriashmmm, i write g-code on a daily basis
15:42.47noriasand that seems.. like it'd be interesting...
15:42.53brlcadyou'd have to define available drill bits, the limits of the cnc machine (how many axes, etc), material types .. and solve paths
15:44.35noriasi know in theory it should work
15:44.50noriasi'm just trying to envision how it'd play out in practice
15:44.54brlcadmy thoughts were to use our ray-trace library, which can be used to sample geometry in any pattern desired and at any resolution to find out where there is and is not material
15:45.09starseekerraises eyebrows - wikileaks claims to have a diagram about an early atomic bomb design
15:45.25brlcadstarseeker: saw that, pretty nifty
15:45.44brlcadwould make a simple can model :)
15:45.53brlcadbunch of spheres and cylinders :)
15:46.02starseekerheh - if it really is leaked they might get a bit annoyed at us for doing that ;-)
15:46.40starseeker'course, the basic designs have been pretty well known for a while now
15:46.46brlcadgahs at the need to install fedora just for a build failure
15:46.52starseekerick
15:46.58brlcadanyone got fedora on hand? :)
15:47.57starseekermeh - that's a pretty simple diagram
15:48.18noriassome of these "leaks" aren't much of anything
15:48.25starseekerno joke, that'd be a trivial model
15:48.30noriasarmy "Lessons Learned" are pretty wide distribution
15:52.30starseekerwould worry more about some terrorist nuts buying surplus Soviet nuclear weapons on the black market, disassembling them, and making the plans for THOSE public
15:53.24starseekerbrlcad:  I don't suppose you could use VMware to install Fedora?
15:58.18brlcadI can
15:58.21brlcadbut that's still ugh
15:58.24starseekerTrue
15:59.06noriasdo i need to raytrace an object before i export it to dxf?
15:59.14starseekershouldn't
15:59.26starseekerunless you want to take a look at it
15:59.31noriasi just tried to export the sphere example
15:59.39noriasto see what it'd look like in my 2d cad program
15:59.43noriasand i'm having no luck
15:59.50starseekerwhat's the error?
16:00.23noriasdo_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/sph1.s'
16:00.27norias288 triangle written
16:00.37noriasi get a file, that has a sph1.s layer on it
16:00.46noriasbut i can't seem to see any information on it...
16:01.11starseekerHmm - you just added a sphere to an empty database and tried exporting it, or are you using a pre-existing example file?
16:01.42noriasi followed the tutorial
16:01.47noriasand just made the initial sphere
16:01.57noriasthen,
16:02.06brlcadthe failure is because it's looking for a region
16:02.19noriasoh, ok
16:02.26brlcadit still wrote the sphere though
16:02.33noriasso, i have to have a region to get anything exported, really?
16:02.48brlcadno
16:02.51brlcadit should be fine
16:02.56brlcadthat's just what that FAIL means
16:03.49noriasoh, ok
16:03.52noriashm
16:05.19starseekerI'm not getting anything visible when I load the dxf into Qcad
16:05.31noriasyeah, i'm using qcad
16:06.03noriasi get list of weird errors if i use -v
16:07.04brlcadnot saying it's the problem here, but qcad's dxf importer has *many* bugs
16:08.27brlcadthe dxf loads fine in blender
16:09.10starseekerqcad can't see the cassini dxf either
16:09.17noriashmm. bummer
16:09.27noriasso it's qcad
16:09.49noriasthat puts some stones in my shoes as far as what i wanted to do
16:11.09brlcadthere are a few things you can try
16:11.40brlcadedit the dxf and remove all of the slashes in the entity names
16:12.16brlcadsed 's/\/sph1.s/sph1.s/g' < yourfile.dxf > newfile.dxf
16:12.24noriashmmm
16:12.26noriasgood idea
16:12.56brlcaddxf spec allows for a wide range of characters in the names, qcad might not
16:14.35noriashm. basically, figure out what sort of massaging of the data qcad needs
16:14.45noriasand maybe write myself a little script for that
16:20.15brlcadif it's something simple
16:20.17brlcadshould be
16:20.31brlcadcan you make a 3D sphere in qcad?
16:20.51brlcad(not via a revolve)
16:22.35noriascan I? no
16:22.38noriascan the software?
16:22.41noriasi have no idea
16:22.49brlcadheh
16:22.57noriasi use it to make 2D mechanical drawins of parts
16:23.07noriasblueprinrts
16:23.15norias(wow, my typing is going to hell)
16:23.18brlcadyou using qcad on windows?
16:23.40brlcadand did that sed make any difference?
16:23.55noriassed didn't help
16:24.01noriasqcad on OS X
16:25.09noriasmaybe that's the root of the problem
16:25.21noriasis that... the exported object is 3d
16:25.28noriasand i think qcad only handles 2d
16:26.21brlcadcould be
16:26.36noriasi was kinda curious how that would play out
16:26.39CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30533 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_system.h: try to fix the fedora linkage error (blindly). these are C headers, so protect them with an extern C declaration if we're compiling in C++ mode.
16:26.39noriasguess i know now
16:26.41noriasit won't
16:27.12brlcadsubmit a bug report ;)
16:27.33noriasdoesn't sound like a bug to me
16:27.38noriaswell... not for brl
16:27.49noriasand, i'm thinking not really a bug for qcad
16:27.52brlcadi meant a qcad bug report
16:27.54brlcadand in jest :)
16:27.57noriasbecause i don't think it's supposed to do 3d
16:28.00noriasoh, right on
16:31.55noriashmmm, solidworks has a free viewer
16:32.13noriaskinda helps... a little...
16:33.09brlcadwhat're you trying to do?
16:33.22brlcadif you're trying to better visualize, you can use the "rt" command
16:33.31noriashmm, basically... i'd like to lay things out with brl-cad in 3d
16:33.40noriasthen turn it out into 2d images
16:34.00noriasthat i can add dimensions etc, for working drawings
16:34.06brlcadah, k
16:34.21brlcadrun "rtedge"
16:34.26noriasoh?
16:34.48brlcadthat'll generate hidden line drawings
16:34.52brlcade.g. http://brlcad.org/OLD/images/havoc_rtedge.png
16:35.14brlcadjust without dimensions
16:35.24noriasthat's kinda close to what i'm after
16:35.36brlcadbut they can of course be added to the image afterwards with fav image editor
16:35.51brlcadyeah, you probably want the orthogonal views
16:36.03noriasright
16:36.04brlcadmaybe something not quite so complex
16:36.18noriasorthogonal views is exactly the idea
16:36.38noriasi'm not even 100% sure, because i'm not any sort of engineer
16:36.47brlcadyeah, i've been meaning to write a little wrapper that generates a standard multi-view hidden-line rendering all at once
16:36.51noriasi make the stuff, and i know what it needs to look like fore me to make it
16:37.34noriasand, i can make those drawings with qcad or whatever
16:37.51noriasand i can make 3d models to look at by importing them into sketchup
16:38.02norias(even though the dimensional accuracy is then... terrible)
16:38.13noriasi'd like be able to go the other way
16:38.49brlcadsomething like http://c900se.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/diagram-1992_saab-900-cabriolet.gif
16:39.10noriasyeah, vaguely
16:39.24noriasi could toss an example of a single piece
16:39.29noriasthat i did with qcad
16:39.44norias(even though it's technically wrong)
16:40.29brlcadyeah, be useful to see
16:40.56noriasthere's too many views on mine
16:41.05noriasi was told by a friend who's a professional drafter
16:41.10noriasbut i guess it gives the idea
16:41.24brlcadbetter to have too much than too little
16:41.36noriasthat's my thought
16:41.46noriasbut the drafting... they have their own standards, too
16:41.52noriasso, it doesn't fit the standard
16:42.31noriasbut then, it's alot closer than i was before :)
16:42.41noriashttp://base.google.com/base/a/2422661/D6214409695575134655
16:42.53noriasthe pdf file on that page is the actual document
16:43.44brlcadyeah, something like http://www.draftingzone.com/standards/standard1/
16:44.25noriasyeah
16:44.41noriasnot that people actually follow it...
16:44.46brlcad:)
16:44.51noriasi was just making a drawing
16:45.00noriasbased on what i knew from having seen 1000's of them
16:45.06noriasto describe an object i was making at home
16:45.20noriasapparently i have two too many views
16:47.13noriasi'm thinking... basically the multipane mged view
16:47.49noriasshoved into a file
16:51.14starseekerHmm - this is pretty darn cool looking:  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300206000053
16:52.06noriasthose are pretty cool
16:52.23noriasi found some blueprints for the m1911 45 caliber pistol
16:52.33noriasthose are neat,  imho
16:52.42starseekerI guess that price isn't too bad considering how many blueprints there are, but still... urk
16:52.46starseekerneat
16:52.50starseekeroriginals?
16:53.05noriasyeah
16:53.14noriaswell, scanned pdf of the originals
16:53.18starseekerneat
16:53.24starseekerlink? ;-)
16:53.32noriasthat might be one of my "learning cad" projects
16:53.38noriasto turn them into a .dxf
16:53.43noriashmm, link... i dunno
16:53.54noriasi downloaded 'em from somewhere...
16:54.11noriasi can put them on my google base account if you want
16:54.23starseekerare they copyrighted?
16:54.30noriasno idea
16:54.37noriasgood question, actually
16:54.44noriascan't image at this point it'd be a big deal
16:54.52starseekerheh
16:54.54norias20 thousand companies make 1911's
16:55.15noriasit's not like the dimensions of the things are some huge secret
16:55.43starseekertrue
16:56.01starseekersees a fair number of 1911 blueprints on ebay
16:56.08starseekernot originals, but copies
16:56.12noriasyeah
16:56.33noriasi think it'd be fun to make one someday
16:56.39starseeker:-)
16:56.41noriaswhen i get hold of a milling machine
16:57.00norias(or an employer that let's me use the machines on off time)
16:57.15starseekerThat'd be interesting if you tried to register it with police - "Manufacturer?  Me in my garage officer, honest!" ;-)
16:57.19noriasi had an interview with a company that makes components for machine guns
16:57.25starseekercool
16:57.32noriasactually, in the US, it's totally legal to make your own firearms
16:57.41noriasand in my state, there are no firearms registrations
16:58.10starseekerthat works
16:58.10noriasyou can legally make any firearm that you could legally purchase
16:58.17noriasso long as you do all the work yourself
16:58.20noriasand never sell it
17:00.14noriasnice...
17:00.41noriasthis CAD viewer opens the dxf that brl made
17:01.02noriasnow i see why it's called a bag of triangles
17:01.06starseekerhehe
17:16.05noriasso, brl-cad can do ballistics simulations? or no?
17:21.20brlcadballistic simulation codes use brl-cad (directly)
17:21.43brlcadbut we don't include the code in brl-cad that does the actual penetration simulation
17:22.08brlcadthat's a separate analysis code, one of many that use brl-cad for high-performance geometry interrogation
17:22.59noriasso, basically... it does external ballistics..
17:23.11yukonbobwaves in
17:23.16noriasi.e. if i modelled a projectile for a rifle...
17:23.18brlcadthe closest brl-cad lets you get to that are the tools for computing weights/moments and projected areas
17:23.36brlcadhowdy yukonbob
17:23.41noriasi could model it's external ballistics?
17:23.45norias(i.e. flight path)
17:23.51noriasor no?
17:24.26brlcadwith what?
17:24.55brlcadwith brl-cad, no -- it provides the fundamental geometric representation and API facilities for querying that representation
17:25.01noriasok
17:25.18brlcadthere are various (other) analysis codes that hook into that API for doing the simulations
17:26.12brlcadthose include things like simulating material interactions, energy transmission, flight-path simulations, etc
17:27.26brlcadso you could model the projectile for a rifle and there are codes that will simulate its behavior in a given encounter scenario
17:29.52noriashmmm
17:29.54noriasinteresting
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18:00.09brlcadnorias: curious, in your example, the dimensions on the center for .492 and .244 don't seem right
18:01.10brlcadif the base is .170 up and top of that cylinder is .260 up (right diagram), then .244 for the center of that .250R seems wrong
18:04.41noriasit's possible
18:04.45noriasi'm still learning
18:04.53noriasand some of the numbers are a little fudged
18:05.06noriasmostly because not all of the dimensionals are functional
18:05.25noriasthey are just.... to make the piece more attractive
18:06.08noriaslemme look, though...
18:07.51noriasi see your point...
18:07.57noriasthat doesn't seem to make sense
18:08.46noriasat all
18:09.04noriasalso interesting that you caught that
18:09.13noriasand the professional drafter i showed it to didn't
18:10.31noriasyeah, the .492 should be .170 - .040 (for the radius)
18:10.36noriashence, .130
18:11.09noriasi'm set to do another version
18:11.36noriasoff some models i did of this piece in relation to the other parts in the assembly
18:11.55noriaswhich gave me some different theoretical values
18:12.01noriasclose, but it makes a difference
18:12.02noriasso, yeah
18:12.04noriasgood catch
18:12.35noriasi think both the .492 and .244 are wrong
18:16.34brlcadk :)
18:17.58noriasbtw, is there a repository somewhere for free brl-cad models?
18:35.57brlcadnorias: there are a variety included in your install
18:36.18brlcadlook in /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.XX.X/db
18:39.36brlcadnorias: also curious, noted in your diagram that you have the top at a 5 deg incline, yet the google picture seems pretty horizontal
18:42.38noriasi think that's just a perspective issue
18:43.16brlcadhm, k
18:43.38noriaslemme look, though
18:43.42brlcadplays with the model
18:43.54noriasbecause the picture is a just a picture of the 3d model
18:44.10noriasso i should be able to tell pretty quick
18:44.20norias(the 3d model comes directly from the diagram)
18:45.03noriasdefinitely a perspective issue
18:47.40noriasjust added another picture
18:47.42noriasthat shows
19:08.50brlcadwoot, http://brlcad.org/tmp/extractor.png
19:09.07brlcadthats a fun lil shape
19:10.00brlcadcreated exactly per your dimensions
19:18.07brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/extractor2.png
19:19.42noriaswow
19:19.46noriasthat's really neat
19:20.34noriasso the dimensions were good, then?
19:21.00brlcadi'm not an expert modeler, there's probably some optimizations that I could have used, but it was easy enough to reconstruct
19:21.33brlcadyeah, the dimensions seemed alright except for those two mentioned
19:21.38noriasoh, ok
19:21.59noriashow'd you get a center point for that radius, then?
19:22.10brlcadand given they were wrong, it made positioning the main arc  interesting :)
19:22.32noriasjust eyeballed it?
19:24.42brlcadwell, the overall width is known and it's nearly tangent to the outer edge
19:25.17brlcadthat gives a horizontal -- i did just eyeball the vertical at .180
19:25.55noriasyeah, well, the numbers for that center point... and the size of that radius are just a "guess" anyway
19:26.10noriasit's not at all functional, just to make it look nice installed
19:26.24brlcadah
19:26.27noriasso, .250 for the radius just because it's easy to make, and a standard size
19:26.37brlcadi thought you had measured one :)
19:26.57noriasthen the centerpoint found just by lining that up with the straight line for the angle, and the extractor lip
19:27.06noriasyeah, i actually made one by hand
19:27.21noriasby measuring where it needed to fit, and what it needed to do
19:27.28brlcadis that r250 angle also 5 degrees?
19:27.34noriasand the blueprint is based off those measuremeants
19:27.54noriasR.250 is the size of the radius on the "front"
19:28.08noriasand the 5 degrees is also a "look" nice thing
19:29.38noriasi have a "third edition" soon...
19:29.42noriasbased on notes, etc
19:29.48noriasbecause i might make a few more of these
19:30.05noriasconsidering starting the process in BRl-cad
19:30.19noriasthen moving it to my regular cad environment for the working prints
19:30.37noriasnot sure if i'll make them soon, because doing it by hand is a PITA
19:30.56noriasor, maybe even take a good print to a local shop and get it priced for a small run
19:31.19noriasprobably not, though
19:31.31noriaswhen i started this, the part was unavailable
19:31.36noriasso, i was forced to make one
19:31.41noriasthey are available now
19:31.52brlcadoh yeah
19:31.54noriasi didn't even know what it needed to look like
19:32.00noriasjust where it went, and what it did
19:32.02brlcadnoticed another minor discrepancy
19:32.05norias?
19:32.27brlcadon the left side, where the R.250 arrow meets up
19:32.45noriasyes?
19:32.58brlcadif that's the radius, then the 119+131 below are slightly off :)
19:33.00noriasoh, i think i see...
19:33.06brlcadas they are inside
19:33.07noriasyeah, i know those are off
19:33.16noriasi noticed that after i called it "quits"
19:33.19brlcadwould be saying tan(5) == 0 :)
19:33.35norias(actually when i was trying to make one)
19:34.03noriasit's been a learning experience
19:34.12noriasbefore this i never touched CAD software, at all
19:34.24noriasi just make things in a shop
19:34.28brlcadcool
19:34.34noriasand know kinda what the prints need to look like
19:34.57brlcadI mostly only touch CAD software and rarely make things in a shop ;)
19:35.13noriasyeah, eventually...
19:35.25noriasi'm going to school to be a mech engineer
19:35.43brlcadif you would like to play with that .g, its also up there in the tmp dir
19:35.54noriasi'm trying to learn/teach myself all this stuff from the ground up
19:35.58noriasinstead of the other way around
19:36.25brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/extractor.g
19:36.31noriastempting...
19:37.08brlcadfixes apache's mime type
19:38.47noriasis archer a big advance over mged?
19:40.06yukonbobbrlcad: what's the ETA for tagging latest 7.10.x
19:40.44brlcadnorias: usability wise, yes -- but it's lacking tons of functionality
19:41.03brlcadit's the start of a new user interface, a redesign, a prototype
19:41.09brlcadyukonbob: later today
19:41.37yukonbob!! woohoo
19:41.39yukonbob:)
19:42.01yukonbobprepares
19:42.11yukonbobis .6?
19:42.16brlcad7.12.0
19:42.19yukonbobha
19:42.20yukonbob*ah
19:42.50brlcadthis will actually be one of our biggest feature-wise in a long time
19:42.59brlcadmore than 75 items
19:43.00yukonbobis looking forward to it...
19:43.18noriasof course... i download the old one the day before...
19:43.23brlcad:)
19:43.32brlcadit's alright, we might not make full binaries for this release
19:43.34yukonbobheh -- isn't that how new releases are made?
19:43.42brlcadmaybe just mac, linux, windows or someset thereof
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21:17.40starseekerHeh - tempest in a teapot - the atomic bomb "leak" was already here:  http://www.nuclearweaponarchive.org/Uk/BritishBombPlans.html
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080317

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080317

00:11.06yukonbobbrlcad: make sure you post a note here when the 7.12 is branched :)
00:22.03brlcadyup
00:22.14brlcadstill trying to get a build test to go clean
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00:37.46yukonbob:) -- how's it look -- unforeseen BS?
01:45.18brlcadit's fine, just busy doing other things at the same time, and the remaining issues aren't easily tested
01:45.29brlcadtrying to get fedora downloaded so I can test it
03:19.29CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30534 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/ (tcl/unix/Makefile.in tk/unix/Makefile.in): only install/chmod the lib files if they exist, hopefully bypassing an ubuntu install error where libtclstub.a doesn't exist for some (unknown) reason.
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07:15.14brlcadalright .. ubuntu up and running
07:15.18brlcadbegins compiling
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13:26.55yukonbobpokes in
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14:33.38CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30535 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/ (Makefile.am incrTcl/Makefile.am): if we don't have X11, then we should not be compiling tk, tkimg, blt, itk. turn them off.
14:40.02yukonbobwonders how the tests are going, gets ready to fly home
14:40.53brlcadgoing alright, finally got ubuntu up and running so once things are clean there, I'll tag
14:42.40yukonbobpasses brlcad a coffee of his choice, steps back and lets the work continue
14:46.36yukonbobalso tries to figure out how to run the svn client to pull _all_ commit msgs from ea. file over time...
14:59.53brlcadthanks :)
15:00.41brlcadit's actually a raspberry tea this morning, but caffeine nonetheless ;)
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16:06.19brlcadprepares the website announcement
17:14.21brlcadsets up an auto-notifier to know when the final org list is published
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18:43.36cad03that works nicely now
19:33.35brlcadgets an e-mail
19:33.51brlcadWe are accepted into the Google Summer of Code
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21:42.55PrezKennedyhigh fives brlcad
21:42.58PrezKennedycongrats!
21:43.46brlcadyeah, pretty cool :)
21:44.01brlcadgonna get busy in here
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080318

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080318

00:26.28yukonbobre: SoC -- does that mean that certain summer projects of BRL-CAD are accepted, or BRL-CAD is welcomed into SoC in principle, and specfic projects are yet to be sumbitted.
00:26.31yukonbob?
00:27.06brlcadthe latter
00:27.39brlcadwe talk to students throughout the week
00:27.45brlcadthey formulate proposals
00:27.50brlcadwe rank them
00:28.12brlcadwe get allocated an unknown number of slots (probably 2 or 3)
00:28.28brlcadthose top N ranked then work on their projects
00:29.29yukonbobnods
00:30.45yukonbobAre there projects listed on a SoC page on the new site that might be picked-from, or give potentials an idea of what to work on?
00:30.59brlcadyep
00:31.15brlcadhttp://my.brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas
00:31.22brlcadstill have more to add
00:31.28brlcadand some cleanup
00:31.31yukonboblooks
00:32.00brlcadif you have other ideas, it's a wiki ;)
00:32.18brlcad(and presuming youd be interested in mentoring that idea)
00:32.27alex_jonibrlcad: an U3D converter
00:33.13yukonboblooks, and has ideas, and will hopefully mentor as well ;)
00:33.58brlcadalso links to http://brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html
00:34.20brlcadthough that has plenty of ideas way out of scope for gsoc
00:35.30brlcadalex_joni: good idea
00:35.45alex_jonibrlcad: makes nifty pdf's :)
00:36.23alex_joniand should be fairly simple using sample code from SF as a guidance
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05:55.29brlcadu3d added
06:09.11pooliocongrats on gsoc :)
06:09.25brlcadyeah, should be fun
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07:21.53*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || Release 7.12.0 imminent (no really!) || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code, see http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code and join the developer mailing list
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11:38.46alex_jonibrlcad: whee, thanks :)
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11:50.30starseekerbrlcad:  Heh - with BRL-CAD and BZFlag in the SoC mix it's going to be a wild one :-)
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14:03.25clock_brlcad: is there something like a truncated sphere?
14:03.48clock_For example if I want to do a weak lens, I need to use a huge sphere. It makes the model appear big and complicated
14:03.56clock_also maybe makes raytracinf slower
14:55.32yukonbobwaves in
14:56.01yukonbobpasses raspberry tea or coffee or yerba matte or $whatever to brlcad
15:18.12brlcadclock_: hmmm
15:18.44brlcadeven truncated, it's going to be huge regardless to get the curvature
15:20.32clock_I don't agree with that
15:25.00brlcaddo you mean truncated from multiple directions?
15:25.28brlcadlike top-bottom-left-right-back but not front
15:25.45brlcadthat's the only way I can see it not staying big
15:28.08clock_truncated like hour glass
15:34.22brlcadhour classes are truncated on top and bottom and tapered in the middle
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15:41.17clock_oh sorry bad term
15:41.37clock_What's the name of the warped glass that is on a watch?
15:41.48clock_Clock glass?
15:43.07brlcadheads to lunch, bbiab
15:43.12brlcaddunno that one
15:43.18brlcadnot a watch-maker ;)
15:43.24archivistclock_, also known as crystal
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15:43.38archivistI do work with clocks
15:43.56brlcad:)
15:43.56clock_the spherical glass on a watch is called crystal?
15:44.36archivistwatch glass, and some are plastic, some real class, some saphire
15:45.06brlcadyeah, my watch is actually made from crystal .. everlasting unscratchable goodness
15:45.09archivistreal glass also called mineral
15:45.51archivistbrlcad, probably a grown saphire crystal
15:55.39yukonbobclock_: couldn't you just use a big sphere, take union, and restrict your area of interest (/me is looking up in ref for command he's thinking of)
15:55.56clock_I do it
16:00.26yukonbobwill have to look later, but there's a command to block an area as the _only_ area for the ray to take into account -- can't find reference/remember name atm...
16:07.44yukonbobhow does one subscribe to the mailing list?
16:07.54yukonbob~mailinglist
16:07.54ibot[~mailinglist] Asterisk mailing lists can be found at http://lists.digium.com , http://www.asteriskguru.com/archives
16:09.32archivisthttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/brlcad-devel
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16:11.32yukonbobsees also: http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=105292
16:59.14iraytraceWe made it to GSOC?!?!?!?!
17:03.48pooliojah! :)
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19:21.07CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03tossup * r30536 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/geometry/BrlcadDb.java:
19:21.07CIA-33BRL-CAD: 'Completed scan' message now goes to System.err rather than System.out.
19:21.07CIA-33BRL-CAD: Added <String> as generic type for TreeSet to remove lint warnings.
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19:59.21brlcadhello Ford_Prefect
19:59.35brlcadand hippieindamakin8
20:00.17alex_joniheh, wonder where I left my towel
20:07.40brlcadnever leaves home without his towel
20:09.08Ford_Prefect:D
20:09.11Ford_PrefectHey brlcad
20:09.36*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543675.dsl.bell.ca)
20:09.46*** part/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543675.dsl.bell.ca)
20:10.39brlcadhow goes it?
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20:31.32yukonbobpeeks in
20:33.43brlcadpeeks out
20:40.43yukonbobheh
20:40.55yukonbobdare I ask how you're doing?
20:41.11brlcadpretty good actually
20:41.20brlcadyesterday was busy
20:41.23yukonbobis glad to hear
20:43.26PrezKennedy* brlcad never leaves home without his towel -- the Vogans are coming!
20:48.03yukonboblikes the requirements for STEP parser "ability to tolerate bloated ISO standards"
20:51.40yukonbobnotes: Caption for gallery picture "Mike Muss" is incorrectly spelled. (should be "Mike Muuss") http://my.brlcad.org/gallery/main.php
20:53.39MinuteElectronfixed
20:55.07MinuteElectronbrlcad: Do you have any intention of ever sanctioning a design enhancement, or is the current one as it will remain for the forseeable future?
20:57.07brlcadwhat do you mean?
20:57.23MinuteElectronIs the design as it will stay now?
20:57.33MinuteElectroni.e. should I start porting it to gallery2 etc.
20:57.38brlcadyou mean the appearance of the site
20:57.42MinuteElectroneys
20:57.45brlcadaha
20:57.46MinuteElectron*yes
20:57.49MinuteElectron:P
20:58.18brlcadhm, well I do forsee sanctioning a design enhancement
20:58.38brlcadeventually at least -- it's nice that it's at least up and running now and is a major improvement
20:58.43MinuteElectronyeah
20:58.46brlcadbeen having fun populating it with data
20:58.51MinuteElectron:D
20:59.20brlcadso my own priority was to continue populating it throughout and then get back to ldap and then back onto a new style
20:59.27MinuteElectronahh, ok
21:00.06MinuteElectronso I'll work on porting to gallery2 for now, then when the time comes to modify the style it will be even more uniform.
21:00.14brlcadthere's no reason for that order other than -- it's not "bad" now so move on to content -- at least that was the thinking
21:00.22brlcadyeah, cool
21:00.43brlcadI also integrated the style with cgiirc, if you didn't notice
21:00.48brlcadhttp://irc.brlcad.org
21:01.09brlcadyou might have a better way to do that, but cgiirc has very limited skinning options
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21:01.13MinuteElectroncool
21:01.17brlcadyou have to edit the files directly
21:01.23MinuteElectronlooks neat, ahh
21:01.31brlcadso I just linked the style.css and added the header to the internal template
21:01.46*** part/#brlcad Ford_Prefect (i=arun@outbound.silenceisdefeat.org)
21:02.09MinuteElectronyeah, probably not much of a better way to do it - but i'll have a poke around and think about if there is a way to integrate it better.
21:02.09brlcadyou might have a better way to do it, but I went the quick n dirty route
21:02.13MinuteElectronyeah
21:02.28brlcadalas, a route that'll get blown away (for the header) the next time cgi:irc is update
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21:03.19brlcadI also had to manually rewire the header since all the header links were relative
21:03.34brlcadand irc has a different path
21:03.41brlcadprobably not a better way around that
21:03.49brlcadI think I'm just bitching
21:04.17brlcadbecause it sucks maintenance wise, given there probably aren't better maintenance options
21:05.29MinuteElectronok
21:06.04brlcadMinuteElectron: I'm also not sure I set up recaptcha properly ..
21:06.12brlcadand the Notify module
21:06.54brlcadat least I'm getting several spam contact e-mails a day, and when I test manually it doesn't present me with the recaptcha (on the contact form .. works for the wiki)
21:07.12MinuteElectronI'll add it to my to do list and look into it when I get a chance, unless this is urgent?
21:07.26brlcadnah, not urgent
21:07.35brlcadI'll just forward you the spam ;)
21:07.46MinuteElectron:D
21:08.56brlcador maybe I will buy those cellphone stocks on the forex markets while enlarging my manhood for her delight
21:09.01MinuteElectronheh
21:09.17MinuteElectronAlso, Drupal 6 got released the other week; not sure if we want to risk an upgrade just yet. I could set up a test drupal and use a copy of the database to do a test upgrade to see if it works ok - then roll it out to the main site?
21:09.36brlcadI saw that too
21:09.41brlcadmost of the modules aren't updated
21:09.47brlcadldap isn't available for example
21:10.15brlcadwe're using about a half dozen modules now -- when they're updated, probably a good time to upgrade
21:10.51MinuteElectronahh ok
21:15.10MinuteElectronlater
21:15.52brlcadcya!
21:19.04hippieindamakin8hey brlcad
21:37.24hippieindamakin8nebody there ?
21:37.32hippieindamakin8brlcad are u there?
21:42.26brlcadyep
21:44.14brlcadhippieindamakin8: did you have a question?
21:44.24hippieindamakin8ya man..
21:44.36hippieindamakin8how do i get this mged program on my comp ?
21:44.46brlcadwell, you install it
21:44.48brlcad<PROTECTED>
21:44.52hippieindamakin8i couldn't find any repositories :P
21:45.04brlcad~cadsvn
21:45.05ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
21:45.13hippieindamakin8ahh thanks
21:47.01hippieindamakin8ohh it is automatically installed :)
21:47.16hippieindamakin8with brlcad
21:48.31brlcadhm?
21:48.36brlcadwhat's automatically installed?
21:48.46brlcadthat svn command obtains the sources
21:49.06hippieindamakin8naah i already have the binaries
21:49.07brlcadif you want a binary install, there are downloads available through the website
21:49.16hippieindamakin8i installed it just now..
21:49.27brlcadokay
21:49.29hippieindamakin8i dint know how to get this mged program running
21:50.52hippieindamakin8can you help me start up ?
21:50.58brlcadi can help a little
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21:51.02brlcadwhat's the problem?
21:51.18brlcadif you run 'mged' it should open up two windows
21:51.46hippieindamakin8it aint :( i tried it
21:52.53hippieindamakin8actually after an install i tried to launch the program but couldnt do that.. :( tried to locate the files but they were there either
21:55.46brlcadyou'll need to run it via /usr/brlcad/bin/mged if you haven't added /usr/brlcad/bin to your path
21:55.54brlcadby default, brl-cad installs into /usr/brlcad
21:56.21brlcadit *entirely* installs into /usr/brlcad so you can actually upgrade/uninstall really easily
21:56.37hippieindamakin8thanks
21:56.56brlcadnp
21:58.18brlcadthere are extensive tutorials and documentation on the website at http://brlcad.org/d/documentation
22:00.59hippieindamakin8ya started reffering them :) too sleepy at the same time
22:23.35hippieindamakin8thanks it started working properly :) i was running from an account(ssh) without Xlib
22:23.52brlcadah
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080319

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080319

00:13.24starseekeruploads more screenshots
02:26.41yukonbobstarseeker: are both those models yours?
02:27.01starseekerI did them as part of my training
02:28.13yukonbobnice..
02:30.14yukonbobpen is using pipes for the "plastic" body and the "metal" end where the ball point is hidden?
02:35.42starseekerno, although that's probably a good idea
02:36.00starseekerI thought about redoing the pen body with pipes, but have been working on other things
02:36.53starseekerPen was the first thing I really modeled, so I wasn't up on pipes yet ;-)
02:37.39yukonbobso what did you use? I'm just looking at it and trying to reverse engineer your work :)
02:38.24starseekerAh :-).  I think it was an eto at the very tip of the pen, a trc for the remainder of the "cap", an epa for the tapering tip, and then a cylinder when it got straighter
02:39.53starseekersince it's a glass render, you can see the discontinuity where it switches from the epa to the rcc
02:40.11starseekerI'm not sure, but pipe might be able to do a significantly better job of it
02:40.39starseekerThat's cool you thought of trying pipe too :-)
02:43.59yukonbobit's a nice looking render even as is, though
02:44.23starseekerthanks :-)
02:45.09starseekerthat one has more visual bang for the buck than the wheel, but the wheel was where I finally got the pattern tool to do something useful
02:45.40starseekerHeh - people seem to like that openmoko import screenshot
02:46.53yukonbobnot surprising, considering it looks so "techy" :)
02:47.25starseekershould have put up wireframe screenshots of cassini instead of renders ;-)
02:47.38yukonbobre: pattern tool -- /me will have to look that up; How did you use it on that wheel?
02:48.17starseekerpattern tool may not be the best way to do what I did - you see the divots around the edge of the wheel?
02:48.36yukonbobon the tire?
02:48.39starseekeryes
02:48.42yukonboblike syping?
02:48.44yukonbobya.
02:49.07starseekerthose were done by placing one shape in the "right" place on the rim, and then patterning it around
02:50.04yukonbobah.... /me would use a script to do that (Tcl)... but I haven't tried the pattern tool -- it might be the way to go...
02:50.15starseekerclone would probably be the right way
02:50.36starseekerthe pattern tool gui is not at all intuitive
02:56.08*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
02:56.08*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || Release 7.12.0 imminent (no really!) || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code, see http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code and join the developer mailing list
03:21.03brlcadthat background works out really nicely for the pen
03:25.47starseekerlikes that background color - need to save the settings :-)
03:28.28starseekerIt's so boring it will never conflict with any color anyone would actually want to use for something ;-)
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11:37.24starseeker(reluctantly) concludes he can't chase these, which is a shame since they look like they have a LOT of info to start modeling with: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190206088276
11:37.46starseekerI need to go to old railroad ships and dig in the rubbish piles, apparently
11:39.52starseekerer/ships/shops
11:40.09starseekerneeds to wake up here...
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13:53.05CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30537 10/brlcad/trunk/m4/compiler.m4: allow BC_SANITY_CHECK to take an argument so we can customize the message being printed
13:54.10CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30538 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: add a sanity check for the C++ compiler to make sure one is installed and working since we need one now, otherwise we'll just end up with more bizaree errors later on.
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15:31.39brlcadhey d_rossberg -- you're enabled on the mentor dashboard now
15:31.58brlcadthere's not much to do/see until the student applications begin being processed
15:32.23brlcadfeel free to edit the ideas list if you see changes needed or would like to add other ideas (they don't have to go through me or anything)
15:34.12d_rossbergbrlcad: ok, maybe i'll play with the "show may location" option a little bit ;-)
15:34.41brlcad:)
15:34.50brlcadand don't forget to pick your shirt size ;)
15:34.58brlcadit'll matter later..
15:35.29d_rossbergthis was easy
15:36.20d_rossbergbut where can be seen the locations of the mentors?
15:37.04brlcadgood question..
15:37.14brlcadlooks
15:40.18d_rossbergmaybe the mentors will be shown in the application phase
15:43.02brlcadone of the admins is telling me that the map isn't published until near the end of the program
15:43.12brlcadbut he's not sure either
15:45.51d_rossbergah, as a replacement for a class photo
15:46.11brlcadwe do that too, at the summit
15:47.28brlcadhttp://flickr.com/photos/mayhem/1518425696/
15:48.47brlcadalso http://www.vrmag.org/vartist/community/GOOGLE_SPONSORS_THE_DEVELOPMENT_OF_OPEN_SOURCE_PANORAMA_MAKING_SOFTWARE.html
15:49.14clock_brlcad: do they sponsor BRL-CAD?
15:49.53brlcadclock_: yes, we're participating this year
15:49.55brlcad(see topic)
16:28.11yukonbobpasses by, waves
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22:09.26yukonboblooks in again, waves :)
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23:38.04hippieindamakin8hey while compiling the binaries.. there are loads of errors pertaining to the tk files
23:40.28brlcadhippieindamakin8: sounds like you might not have the X11 headers installed
23:40.41hippieindamakin8yaya
23:40.53brlcadthat's a separate dev install on package-managing systems like ubuntu/debian
23:40.55hippieindamakin8again the same problem pertaining to X
23:41.18hippieindamakin8ya i am on ubtuntu..
23:41.32brlcadso you'll need to apt get the X11-dev headers
23:41.39brlcadI don't know the specific package name
23:42.03hippieindamakin8ya i am searching that
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080320

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080320

01:56.43starseekergets highres version of Earth image into gallery
02:05.24brlcadcool
02:14.29starseekerbrlcad:  Your turn ;-)
03:24.41brlcadupgrades gallery first
03:55.16yukonbobwaves in
03:58.24yukonbobis the high-res img starseeker is talking about that earth cutaway?
04:00.11brlcadstarseeker: you know what, screw it -- 4k images would be nice to have, I just need to configure some additional default sizes
04:00.15brlcadyeah
04:03.05yukonbobis nice model and all, but not really necessary to have much more than 1024x1024, is it?
04:04.19yukonbobjust thinks there are more interesting models, and so for sake of diskspace (probably not that big a deal, though) and bandwidth...
04:05.06yukonbobhits hay
04:05.11brlcad*shrug*
04:05.31brlcadthat was my original thinking, but we're not short on diskspace or bandwidth :)
04:05.41brlcadjust needs to provide reasonable options
04:06.09brlcadwould be nice if clicking on the image produced 1024 by default, then having an option for original only in the list
04:07.20yukonbobnot really a big deal, but it's just not that exciting a model... such a large download isn't _that_ exciting (in the case of the cutaway earth, anyway)... just an opinion, though. I'm not managing the site, and don't have any models up yet :)
04:07.41brlcadthe idea would be to go that big for all images as a max cutoff
04:07.57yukonbobie: 1024 square?
04:07.58brlcadmebbie, it's fine as is now
04:08.01brlcadno, 4k
04:08.21brlcadi could see some that might be useful to have even higher though .. posters and such
04:08.32yukonbobnods
04:08.45yukonbobwhat we need is a poster of a bicycle hub...
04:08.48brlcadthere we go, gallery updated to latest
04:08.51brlcad:)
04:09.04brlcadthat's one for the gallery
04:09.49yukonbobis it "cool" enough? It's not multi-material like moste (all?) other models...
04:09.56yukonbob*most
04:10.11brlcadit's a really nice design
04:10.26brlcadwould be nice to show the wireframe with it to get a feel for the complexity
04:10.46yukonbobfine... can render + provide img, sure.
04:10.46brlcadI like it because of some of the csg methods used
04:11.23yukonbobI've got some spare cycles... maybe I can knock off an interesting img tomorrow.
04:12.03yukonbobhow's 7.12 coming, speaking of cycles? I bet you're burning way more than you figured w/ the Ubuntu, Fedora testing, etc. :P
04:16.05brlcadcool
04:16.19brlcadyeah, a little more, but mostly just too much context switching
04:16.29brlcad7.12 is ready to go, but haven't had time to write up the release announcements
04:16.44brlcadalso have to send out an announcement about gsoc asap (probably even higher priority)
04:17.19yukonbobfeh -- yeah... Context switches are expensive -- about as effective as a hamster wheel it seems, sometimes ;0
04:19.22yukonbobis heading to sleep. Tmo I need to do some work w/ my other project, a little bit of admin, and then will drop in to see if I can help w/ writing up some "stuff" for release or review, if that'll help..
04:27.55yukonbobpacks out -- see you tmo #brlcad
04:39.38brlcadcheers
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05:42.21bz06hi?
05:42.35bz06anyone there
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11:31.32starseekeryukonbob:  Yeah, it's a pretty simple model - the high-res would mainly be for printing purposes, if someone wants to print it.
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14:16.27pushkalhi all..
14:16.45pushkalare any of the mentors round here ?
14:17.47alex_jonipushkal: ping brlcad  :)
14:18.31pushkalhes of with a msg "z"..
14:19.32brlcadhowdy pushkal
14:19.37pushkalhey..
14:20.06pushkali am a bit confused
14:20.12pushkalcould ya help me out ?
14:20.14pushkal:)
14:21.07alex_jonidepends on the source of your confuseness
14:21.12pushkalur Universal geometry converter API project is what i think i can do..
14:21.38pushkalbut being brand new to open source.. i dunno what the prerequisites are
14:24.29pushkalany1 home??
14:24.41brlcadpushkal: yeah, sorry
14:24.47alex_jonipushkal: one thing you need to learn about open source.. be patient
14:24.59brlcadpretty busy at the moment and have to run out for a bit
14:25.05pushkalim sorry..learnt my first lesson.. :)
14:25.20brlcadbut yeah .. be patient .. responses often won't come for many minutes or even hours later
14:25.34brlcadso you stay on the channel and do other things, checking back every now and then
14:25.48pushkalok.. sure
14:25.52brlcadthe prereqs are being pretty adept in C
14:26.02brlcadalso C++ if you make an OO api
14:26.21brlcadthere are several dozen converters in brl-cad, importers and exporters
14:26.33brlcadright now they are all independent binaries, very little code overlap
14:27.02brlcadthe idea would be to make them go from being apps to being functions -- and putting all those functions together into a library
14:27.29brlcadthen making the various binaries just make the appropriate api calls instead of containing all that logic like they do now
14:27.44brlcadwe can go into more detail later, but I do have to run
14:27.51brlcadbbiab
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14:32.06pushkal_!logs
14:32.17pushkal_any logs of chat?? i got disconnectd
14:32.31Axman6i could copy and paste if you wanted...
14:32.41pushkal_please.. thanky you
14:35.55Axman6http://rafb.net/p/oFYxZI89.html
14:36.11Axman6tried two different paste sites, both were down -_-
14:36.32pushkal_thanks ...
14:36.34pushkal_:)
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15:11.54yukonbobpokes in
15:12.48Axman6:o
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15:34.09SamRoseOk, so I downloaded brl-cad on both debian, and right now on mac os x 10.3.9, on ppc chip. Now what? Where did it install to? :)
15:51.11alex_joniSamRose: /usr/brlcad
15:51.21SamRoseof
15:51.23SamRoseah
15:51.27SamRose:)
15:51.31alex_jonibut if you installed from a deb (on debian) you can check with dpkg -L packagename
15:51.50SamRosehow about on os x?
15:52.03SamRoseI found on /usr
15:52.49SamRosebut how do we go about starting and running the application on OS X?
15:56.20alex_joniSamRose: OS X is a unix-like OS, so I owuld suspect just like on debian
16:45.43SamRoseIs there a web page that gives more info on the usage of brl-cad?
17:02.52brlcadhowdy SamRose
17:03.02brlcadSamRose: there is a bunch of documentation on the website
17:03.32brlcadthat said, brl-cad isn't user-friendly -- one of the gsoc projects is to make it more user friendly :)
17:04.32brlcadSamRose: running on Mac OS X is same as any other unix at the moment
17:04.46brlcadi.e. start up X11, run /usr/brlcad/bin/mged in the xterm window
18:19.10CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30539 10/brlcad/tags/rel-7-12-0/: Tagging release 7.12.0
18:19.30brlcadwow, that's cool
18:19.34brlcadyou can tag without a checkout
18:20.57CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30540 10/brlcad/trunk/include/conf/PATCH: that is pretty cool.. svn can tag without a checkout. bump patch version up to 1
18:26.55yukonbobwonders what he's seeing -- is this 7.12 being put into the wild?
18:50.59brlcadsource tarball should be up soon
18:54.43CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30541 10/brlcad/branches/rel-5-1-branch/mged/dm_old/: delete dm_old, it's causing checkout problems
18:55.51*** join/#brlcad pushkal (n=chatzill@117.197.17.17)
19:01.31*** join/#brlcad pushkal_ (n=chatzill@117.197.16.104)
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19:15.10CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03dgodbey * r30542 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Initial checkin of 3dm-g converter.
19:24.24CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03dgodbey * r30543 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/3dm/ (3dm-g.cpp Makefile.am): Fix file properties
19:40.31*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
19:40.31*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || Release 7.12.0 imminent (no really!) || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code, see http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code and join the developer mailing list
19:43.20yukonbobdoes his work, watches for release of 7.12, and then moves to building a hawt render for the gallery (maybe w/ the 7.12 release?)
19:43.31brlcadit's tagged
19:43.38brlcadmaking the source dist now
19:44.23yukonboba .tgz for sourceforge? Nice -- /me will grab that when it's posted (simplifies my build process)
19:53.27*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@203.200.95.130)
19:57.43brlcadi'll say something here, it's build-testing now
20:10.58brlcaduploading
20:16.20*** join/#brlcad fishe047 (n=fishe047@adsl-75-60-89-116.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net)
20:50.14brlcadyukonbob: posted
20:51.43brlcadBRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || Release 7.12.0 is posted! (2008-03-20) || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code! See http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code and https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/brlcad-devel and idle/talk here
21:01.51*** join/#brlcad fishe047 (n=fishe047@adsl-75-60-89-116.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net)
21:42.41*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543675.dsl.bell.ca)
22:06.20CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30544 10/brlcad/trunk/ChangeLog: it didn't make the rel-7-12-0 tag, but it needs to be in there anyways .. update the changelog (generated via svn2cl.sh --break-before-msg -r {2007-10-24}:{2008-03-11}
22:06.27yukonbobreturns from walk, is looking forward to testing 7.12 out :)
22:19.34hippieindamakin8hey brlcad, i am interested in the GSoC projects man
22:21.36brlcadhippieindamakin8: glad to hear it man
22:21.42hippieindamakin8i am interested in 3 of them :D .. one is OO geometry engine API
22:22.03brlcadthere are a bunch that haven't been added yet too, be sure to check out the link in the first sentance
22:22.08brlcad~spell sentance
22:22.08hippieindamakin8universal goemetry converter
22:22.22brlcadcool, both great projects
22:22.46hippieindamakin8ya.. gimme a month and i shall be able to do CSG<-> BREP
22:22.59hippieindamakin8i am midway the learning of the CAD representations
22:23.37brlcadthat one is very math intense, I'd be cautious without seeing code snippets and strong background info
22:23.50hippieindamakin8i have a good idea about CSGs and learning basic representation of the curves,splines
22:24.08hippieindamakin8and BREP manipulations
22:24.17brlcadit's mostly done for three of the implicits, the big three even (ellipsoidals, arbs, and .. one other that escapes me)
22:24.36hippieindamakin8ohk..
22:25.05*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu)
22:25.06brlcadare you referring to doing CSG evaluation of BREP or conversion from implicit to BREP?
22:25.14brlcad(or both)
22:25.22hippieindamakin8i shall go through the source code pertaining to this one..
22:25.27hippieindamakin8i meant both..
22:25.42hippieindamakin8but i have just started a course in this CAD
22:25.51brlcadsrc/librt/g_*.c has our primitives
22:25.52hippieindamakin8i am about to be done in a month..
22:25.57hippieindamakin8ohk
22:26.02hippieindamakin8i ll chk them
22:26.54hippieindamakin8hey brl what are the times u are generally on ?
22:28.14brlcadi'm generally on most times of day night, but usually easier to talk to around 2000-0800 UTC
22:28.35brlcadthe dev mailing list also works
22:28.56brlcadthough I prefer irc if we're going to have "a discussion"
22:29.24hippieindamakin8yaya.. i shall get back to u.. i just started going through the codes...
22:29.41hippieindamakin8and i am sleepy at the same time :P
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22:30.43hippieindamakin8where are u based ?
22:30.59brlcadEST (east coast US)
22:31.00brlcadyou?
22:31.13hippieindamakin8INDIA
22:31.23brlcadwere you the one that posted that (bad) message to discuss? :)
22:31.49brlcadwhat's your utc offset?
22:31.49hippieindamakin8which one ? :) i dont remember
22:31.56hippieindamakin85 and half
22:32.04brlcadthe one about finding a project
22:32.07brlcada half? wtf
22:32.19hippieindamakin85:30 hrs
22:32.44hippieindamakin8nono not me .. i already found the topic of my interests
22:33.17brlcadthat is messed up.. half hour offset
22:33.36hippieindamakin8ohh
22:33.47brlcadand I presume you have long-term interest in brl-cad?
22:34.30hippieindamakin8yaya.. and i wanna pursue academic research too in this particular field
22:34.37brlcadthat is one of the primary reasons for gsoc, if you didn't read that ;)
22:34.48hippieindamakin8hehe
22:35.22hippieindamakin8i am working under Prof.A.Saxena from Cornell and UPenn
22:36.52yukonbobbrlcad: Newfoundland (Canada) also is .5h offset
22:38.38louipcthey like to call it "Newfoundland and Labrador" now
22:38.39louipcheh
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23:00.45iraytracel
23:05.26*** join/#brlcad fishe047 (n=fishe047@adsl-75-60-89-116.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net)
23:06.28iraytraceSorry, accidentally typing in the wrong winidow
23:11.53yukonbobwonders "what is intaval?"
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080321

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080321

00:10.12brlcadhippieindamakin8: er, how so?  working under him/her in what capacity?  you're obviously not at cornell or upenn
00:10.23brlcadyukonbob: that's just whack
00:10.33brlcadintaval is what the note said it is
00:10.42brlcada format of her majesty's government ;)
00:34.41CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30545 10/brlcad/tags/rel-4-5/mged/dm-glX.c: case-preserving filesystem doesn't like that there is a dm-glX.c and a dm-glx.c .. which are exactly identical except one is missing the history. so remove this stubby one.
00:35.35hippieindamakin8brlcad: i am an undergrad at Indian Institute of Technology
00:35.47hippieindamakin8as an assistant
00:36.19hippieindamakin8i meant i am working as an assistant.. (he is a visiting faculty at these places)
00:37.33brlcadokay
00:52.09CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30546 10/brlcad/tags/ctj-4-5-post/mged/dm-glX.c: yet another case issue with dm-glX.c
00:52.43pooliobrlcad: has there been any interest in a new UI for brl-cad from potential students?
01:03.06brlcadnot yet actually
01:03.20brlcadbut I've also not got our announcements out and the big rush hasn't started yet
01:11.57*** join/#brlcad illethal (n=oden@c-71-200-221-159.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
01:12.09illethalHello fellow humans.
01:14.53brlcadhello illethal
01:15.02brlcadhuman?!  pfft
01:15.33CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30547 10/brlcad/tags/ctj-4-5-pre/mged/dm-glX.c: yet another case issue with dm-glX.c
01:25.51CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30548 10/brlcad/tags/rel-5-0/mged/dm_old/dm-glX.c: yet another case issue with dm-glX.c
01:45.58*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:38.44*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@c-67-172-239-24.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
03:06.41brlcadburps
03:22.31CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30549 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: add new section for 7.12.1
03:32.16CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30550 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: update from rcs2log to svn2cl
03:33.21CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30551 10/brlcad/trunk/README: bah, update to 7.12.2
03:33.46CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30552 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: header cleanup
03:39.34pooliobrlcad: woah...I've been digging around for an internship at JHU doing more brain/neuroscience based stuff and came across this: http://www.cisst.org/idea-highlight-B
03:39.38poolioSounds quite familiar :)
03:46.07brlcad:)
03:52.32yukonbobguesses the test for itcl has changed...
03:54.41brlcadhrm, I don't recall it changing, though the tests for tcl have changed
03:56.30yukonbobis also getting a "present but cannot be compiled" error w/ regex -- and this sounds familiar...
03:58.34yukonbobtcl, tk found alright (if the changes you are talking about are the addition of 8.4, I noticed, and appreciate ;)
03:59.36yukonbobchecking for Itcl_Init in -litk33... yes
03:59.44yukonbob:configure: error: *** incrTcl was disabled, yet no usable libitcl system library was found ***
04:00.24yukonboboh... nm... /me might see issue
04:00.42yukonbobchecking for Itcl_Init in -litcl3.3... no
04:12.06brlcadhuh
04:12.18brlcadwhat's config.log say for that test
04:13.55yukonbobis comparing to 7.10.4... 1 sec.
04:14.33yukonbobchecking for Itcl_Init in -litcl33... yes <--7.10.4
04:14.46yukonbobchecks log
04:18.16yukonbobhttp://www.pastebin.ca/951231
04:18.49yukonbobnote -- I'm hacking the build a bit -- I've removed references to all I've got natively installed, as before.
04:20.25yukonbob*"as before" == like I was building 7.10.4, which was successful
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12:30.32brlcadhm
12:31.21brlcadyukonbob: the error is before the | lines
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15:43.23yukonbobah.... reposted: http://www.pastebin.ca/951639
15:43.59yukonbobit's obvious why it thinks it's failing -- I can do some legwork and see exactly what's going on...
16:33.15*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.200.134)
17:04.46brlcadthat's freaky
17:04.57brlcada search for Itcl_InitStack yields your pastebin
17:05.13brlcadon the first page
17:10.44brlcadAh!, I see at least part of the problem
17:12.23brlcadgah, and now found the "real problem" .. someone was copy-paste happy
17:18.38CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30553 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: ouch, someone had a copy-paste boo boo. don't set LIBITCL during the LIBITK tests...
17:19.02brlcadyukonbob: see if that fixes it
18:12.14*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.200.134)
19:42.27*** join/#brlcad Gabi (n=gabi@201-213-197-242.net.prima.net.ar)
19:47.03Gabihello
19:47.50GabiCan someone uses brlcad to make plans?
19:56.15brlcadGabi: it depends what kind of plans and what workflow you have in mind
19:56.33brlcadit can easily generate hidden line drawings that can be used to make plans
19:58.56GabiIs CAD for use on Linux, but not how to use Brlcad or if I will serve
20:00.19GabiI do not understand referred to with hidden line drawings
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21:15.50alex_joniI think Gabi referred to 2d schematics
21:27.03yukonbobreturns from walk, see note from brlcad...
21:27.15yukonbobq: is the src updated, or should I patch via svn?
21:27.47yukonbob*src tarball on sourceforge
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22:08.37yukonbobgrabs latest svn, gets ready to test
23:04.59brlcadyukonbob: yeah, source tarballs are never updated unless the problem is found immediately after upload (before the e-mail is sent)
23:05.22brlcadshould be able to get just configure.ac from svn, the patch is pretty small
23:06.08brlcadGabi: I mean something like this: http://brlcad.org/tmp/extractor.png
23:25.08Gabialex_joni and brlcad, I need to draw planes in 2d as autocad
23:38.38brlcadah, from a modeling perspective, that would be our "sketch" primitive
23:38.49brlcadbrl-cad does not provide strong drafting facilities
23:39.04brlcadwe're a solid modeling system, so 3D is the primary modeling approach
23:39.09brlcadnot 2D techniques
23:39.32brlcadyou can do them, make 2D sketches and extrude them, but it's not at all like what you're probably used to with autocad
23:40.47GabiOK, thanks. Do you know a program for 2d linux I can use?
23:42.00brlcadqcad is probably closer to what you're thinking of
23:42.38brlcadother than them and brl-cad, there's really not another option
23:54.49brlcadalmost gets gallery integrated into drupal .. but gives up for today
23:55.22brlcadrather .. it does actually display the gallery in drupal now nicely, but the rewrites apparently aren't set up right
23:55.41brlcadalso cannot for the life of me seem to get captchas working with the contact module
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080322

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080322

00:04.44GabiQcad is very basic, it is almost preferable to draw by hand. Thanks.
00:05.43brlcadCAD is an area of open source that doesn't receive enough developer attention
00:06.59brlcadwe do what we can but new developers are really what is needed, if you know any ;)
00:10.13GabiIf I come to know one, you notice. I do not understand why not make Inkscape in a CAD, you felta very little.
00:14.29hippieindamakin8i am interested in it sean
00:15.45brlcadwell, I'd say that's partly because for drafting (CAD != just drafting), Inkscape has and does lots of things that you absolutely don't want to allow
00:16.18brlcadand doesn't provide the most important things that you do want to allow easily (precision inputs, connectivity constraints, 3D orientations, etc)
00:16.34brlcadhippieindamakin8: interested in what exactly? :)
00:17.00hippieindamakin8hey about inkscape.. it doesnt do all that cad softwares dp
00:17.02hippieindamakin8*do
00:17.32hippieindamakin8it is a more advanced paint tool as i feel
00:18.03*** join/#brlcad vedge (n=vedge@vedge.org)
00:18.25brlcadnow what inkscape does do great is the 2D input controls and object management
00:18.33brlcadbut that's about as far as it's utility goes
00:18.48hippieindamakin8hey Sean i dint understand the point where u said..undetermined calcultaions
00:19.09hippieindamakin8the basics of brlcad are CSGs :)
00:19.21hippieindamakin8atleast that is wat i read
00:19.56GabiI know that architects draw any technical documentation of a building with corel draw. There is no shortage of so many things to be a inkscape CAD
00:23.10brlcadjust because there are plenty of people that do use the wrong tool due to lack of better options doesn't necessarily make it a good tool
00:24.18brlcadand different designers have entirely different requirements -- architecture in particular is usually just "instructions" instead of being a steadfast representation being sent to a device that will autocreate it, for example
00:24.58brlcadhippieindamakin8: I'm not sure what you're referring to
00:25.19brlcadbrl-cad's heritage is in CSG, but we're becoming more and more hybrid too
00:25.25hippieindamakin8the problem titled "constraints and parametrics"
00:25.30brlcadokay
00:25.35brlcadwhat about it?
00:25.57hippieindamakin8<PROTECTED>
00:26.04hippieindamakin8*calculations
00:27.43GabiI am going to dinner. Greetings.
00:27.52brlcadcheers Gabi
00:27.54hippieindamakin8but basically i am interested in implementing a OO geometry engine
00:28.04hippieindamakin8and Universal geometry engine
00:28.19hippieindamakin8i wish u all a Good Friday :)
00:28.32brlcadhippieindamakin8: constraints and parametrics both involve the ability to specify equations for parameters instead of values
00:28.43brlcadthose are "undetermined", they have to be evaluated/solved
00:29.25hippieindamakin8ohk.. the entire system is a set of equations in terms of parameters and the equations are to be solved for the constraints
00:29.49brlcadfor example, I create a sphere fixed at 0,0,0 .. then I create another sphere but instead of positioning the sphere, I merely specify that it must be tangent and must have x=y=0
00:29.53hippieindamakin8in the example tangency is one of the conditions to solve
00:30.29hippieindamakin8k :) thanks
00:30.30brlcadin that example, there are only two tangency solutions (on the z axis)
00:30.37hippieindamakin8one on either side
00:30.44brlcadexactly
00:31.20hippieindamakin8does it choose which side ?
00:31.35hippieindamakin8ofcourse another condition about z is required
00:31.46brlcad0, 0, R1 +- (R2/2)
00:32.05brlcadit's not that it has to pick, it has to know the possible solutions
00:32.21hippieindamakin8ohk..
00:32.29brlcadit only needs more conditions if you want to fully constrain
00:32.43hippieindamakin8ya
00:33.04hippieindamakin8is the entire software coded in C ?
00:33.17hippieindamakin8and tcl/tk for GUIs and stuff
00:42.11brlcadpredominantly in C, yes
00:42.21brlcadmost of the BREP work being added is being done in C++
00:42.33brlcadtcl/tk for the mged and archer guis
00:43.10brlcadhippieindamakin8: are you at all familiar with another geometry engine APIs?  granite or acis for example
00:43.17hippieindamakin8no..
00:43.27brlcadk, just wondering
00:43.47hippieindamakin8just reading upon these apis
00:44.25hippieindamakin8i heard about JAVA 3d
00:44.49hippieindamakin8but never used it
00:49.35brlcadyeah.. not relevant ;)
00:49.49hippieindamakin8ya got it :P
00:50.24brlcadyou should take a look at the jbrlcad source module
00:50.34hippieindamakin8k sure
00:50.35brlcadthere's a start of a new OO layer in there for Java that is really pretty nice
00:50.46hippieindamakin8i ll chk it..
00:50.51brlcadeven for C++, that same layout is probably a very good fit for what we need
00:51.01brlcadas it's based on our current C API features
00:51.23hippieindamakin8ohk
00:54.32brlcaddoing something with swig where both Java and C++ are generated automatically would probably be ideal for long term mainenance
00:54.38brlcadpresuming it could be set up cleanly
00:54.50brlcadotherwise there's really good justifications to work on either
00:56.46hippieindamakin8:)
00:58.27hippieindamakin8i am more used to C++ to do anything :)
01:48.31*** part/#brlcad Gabi (n=gabi@201-213-197-242.net.prima.net.ar)
02:02.57yukonbobbrlcad: that update to configure.ac doesn't seem to work
02:20.00brlcadhum
02:20.03brlcadhowso?
02:20.11brlcadsame error, different error?
02:40.28pooliomy x300 is shipping :D
02:40.59poolio(offtopic,unrelated, but I'm giddy)
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03:21.08brlcadcool, yay for ultralight
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05:00.42starseekerdecides he's had enough math for one day...
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06:26.24iraytracesome serious double-take
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09:01.33brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/d/node/22
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12:00.52``Erik_do/blah
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16:06.02yukonboblooks into potential autogen.sh issue
16:09.00yukonbob(at least in his env... the only chages I see are the version numbers, and some whitespace correction @ EOL)
16:28.31yukonbobhrmm... autoreconf & aclocal are failing me...
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080323

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080323

01:12.07brlcadupdates the ideas list http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas
01:12.20brlcadit's closer to a "final initial" form now
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04:01.54hippieindamakin8nice list man
04:02.47brlcadcoming together bit by bit
04:03.01yukonboblooks
04:07.34yukonbobbrlcad: interested in my latest build issues, or should I plug away solo?
04:10.07yukonbobhttp://pastebin.ca/953538
04:22.06yukonbobthat test code needs an "#include <stdlib.h>" for exit()
05:09.24yukonbob(/me assumes introduced at 30538, configure.ac)? But seems completely ac-generated... wft?
05:09.30yukonbob*wtf
05:10.17brlcadyukonbob: yeah weird
05:10.43brlcadthe sanity check is missing a header it seems .. that C mode is fine with but C++ mode is adament about
05:11.00brlcadthere was a new C++ mode sanity check added just a couple days ago (right after 7.12.0
05:12.34CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30554 10/brlcad/trunk/m4/compiler.m4: bah, need stdlib.h for exit().. C++ sanity check seems insistent on needing it.
05:12.42yukonbobya -- is BC_SANITY_CHECK a builtin, or user-supplied
05:13.29brlcadall BC_'s are brl-cad macros in m4/
05:13.33yukonbobwhatever you just modded could stand to lose stdio, I believe, too -- probably somebody's finger-memory got the best of them at that point..
05:13.44brlcadtrue
05:13.56brlcadstdio was providing exit() on older glibc
05:14.46CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30555 10/brlcad/trunk/m4/compiler.m4: don't need stdio.h
05:14.47yukonbobdoesn't remember that; if it does/did, so be it, but that won't matter on *BSD, etc. They'll need stdlib
05:15.39yukonbobmight end up learning autotools if he's not careful here
05:16.46yukonbobdoes my commit-bit extend to code as well, or strictly doc?
05:17.00brlcadto anything
05:17.01yukonbobhasn't tried, and we've not talked about this
05:17.32brlcaddon't worry about mixing up other stuff, dive right in ;)
05:19.07yukonbobalright; I'm still getting that itcl error that was the initial issue, but working on other stuff too (like the above c++); autogen.sh isn't liking my build env (pkgsrc), but doesn't mind a by-hand run from the shell; I'll explore that too -- (autogen itself hasn't changed, but it must include some changed files, because it used to work np)
05:19.14brlcadall commits are reviewed anyways and announced here so it's easy enough to see what's going on
05:19.43yukonbobnods
05:19.46brlcaddoes "sh autogen.sh -v" show anything?
05:21.11yukonbobcan check; in the "environment" build, it chokes on autoreconf, then tries it's "manual config" (or whatever) and chokes on that, too.
05:21.44yukonbobby-hand, everything works fine... which is strange to me, but I'll track down what the offending difference is...
05:22.13brlcad-v will show the exact commands it's trying to run
05:22.29yukonbobnods, add to wrapping-Makefile
05:22.50yukonbob*adds
05:23.23brlcadwhich is a version check for autoconf, automake, and libtool .. then something like "autoreconf -v -i -s" .. and then individual steps if that fails
05:24.22yukonbob_has_ autoreconf, and even supplied it directly via the AUTORECONF env var, but no dice
05:25.09yukonbobruns build
05:25.10brlcadautoreconf can fail for lots of reasons
05:25.46brlcadthat's one of many reasons why autogen.sh exists in the first place
05:25.59yukonbobout of comlete curiousity, how much effort do you think it'd take to replace auto* w/ cmake (for example) and what would keep one from doing that, besides the manpower?
05:26.09yukonbob*complete
05:27.07brlcadmanpower to replicate the entire build system faithfully, I'd expect it'd take many months
05:27.16brlcadof non-stop effort
05:27.29yukonbob!
05:28.13brlcadthe conversion to autotools took a long time, about that long, and there wasn't really any complicated road blocks
05:28.35yukonbobeverybody likes to complain about "autohell"; what's your take on it?
05:28.42brlcadit just takes a lot of work to specify the build rules for 400+ binary targets, the 24 or so libs, and various types of data files and subdependencies
05:30.31brlcadautohell is the way it is for many reasons
05:31.27brlcadit does what it does the way it does it in order to provide strict portability constraints (that really cannot be easily provided most any other way without adding dependencies)
05:32.52yukonbobhave you ever played w/ scons (python), or cmake?
05:32.58brlcadyep
05:34.16brlcadi actually rather like cmake, their biggest claim to awesomeness is thier ability to export the various build systems (including msvc files) from one description
05:34.50brlcadscons is nice for small code sets but *seriously* starts to fall apart on large complex build systems -- you basically end up reimplementing autoconf
05:35.16yukonbobya -- /me is ready to buy the cmake manual (just released (new version)) and check it out...
05:37.29brlcadlike a lot of tools though, autotools really do work (and work well once you get over the learning curve) and it really starts to make sense why things are the way they are
05:38.31brlcadtheir biggest downfall has been practical usability problems (horrible error messages, bad docs, elitist responses to usability)
05:39.17yukonbobspeaking of docs, can you recommend any? The GNU-supplied stuff isn't my cup of tea.
05:44.30brlcadI actually recommend just reading existing build files for projects that use the autotools -- it's fairly straight-forward seeing it in other apps as there are really only two or three files types involved
05:44.35brlcadthe configure.ac and the Makefile.am files
05:45.38brlcadthe Makefile.am files don't really get *any* simpler in any of the autotools/cmake/ant/scons/whatever build systems as it's just a list of targets, sets of files, and how those sets of files relate to those targets
05:47.49brlcadthe build/feature/header tests and project identification are somewhat tricky in all the systems to replicate -- that's where configure.ac comes into play for the autotools
05:48.55brlcadwhich is just shell syntax with macros
05:49.22yukonbobnods -- will probably start poking this stuff in BRLCAD, and probably pick your brain too, where possible ;)
05:49.32brlcadfeel free to
05:50.40brlcadI've read the GNU book and the auto* manuals, but I really never learned it until I put it to use
05:51.32brlcadthe tools are overly flexible, making it really complicated to document since you can approach things in a variety of ways (even though 90% of projects all do it about the same)
05:52.01yukonbobthat might be my problem -- the gnu manuals are drier than toast (and technical manuals don't have to be that way); maybe those in conjunction w/ some interesting "real life" work will click
05:52.29brlcadin hindsight after you've put it to use, it does all make sense
05:52.36brlcadeven becomes somewhat overly obvious
05:52.46brlcadbut is totally opaque until you put it to use
05:56.38yukonbobgets ready for sleep
05:56.38brlcadusually much more effective to just look at a project that is already set up (like brl-cad or something even more simple) and follow their example
05:56.54yukonbobnice chatting again, brlcad; probably talk tmo, or soon at least.
05:56.56yukonbob:)
05:57.00brlcadaiight
05:57.01brlcadcheers
06:47.50CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30556 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: the dutch cad4linux site seems to be now defunct
07:10.07CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30557 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: add devmaster to the notification list
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09:00.44brlcaduploads some new images to the gallery
09:43.46brlcadensleeps
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16:14.45brlcadtime for a sunday feast!
16:36.04yukonbobmorning brlcad... happy Easter
16:37.06pooliohappy purim :)
16:37.30yukonboblooks up purim
16:46.01brlcadlikewise
16:46.33brlcadbah, can't find the original bradley rendering...
17:10.30yukonbobwould love to see that
17:17.23yukonbobhttp://my.brlcad.org/gallery/gallery/s/historic/particles.jpg.html
17:18.03yukonbob^-- what is this, and it reminds me of a question I've had for a while: what's the 'atom' for?
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17:28.11brlcadfrankly I don't know really :)  the image is an old one from bill laut .. don't know what he used it for, I'd have to ask him
17:28.27brlcadas for the atom?  which/what atom?
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17:35.53brlcadfew more images uploaded
17:39.02yukonbobis sure he's seen an "atom" primitive
17:39.45yukonbobalso doesn't have a copy of BRL-CAD installed atm, and is heading out for easter brunch... chat later cadheads
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21:56.20yukonbobhttp://pastebin.ca/954422
21:56.34yukonbob^--- build failure at g-3dm
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22:12.44yukonbobtraces to src/conf/.deps/g-3dm.Po...
22:13.03yukonbob...or does he?
22:17.28yukonbobwonders if 3dm is only in development...
22:19.02yukonboblooks like g-3dm isn't ready, but it included (erroneosly) in build...
22:19.31yukonbob*erroneously
22:26.51yukonbobputs this on hold -- will return, test idea, and commit fix (if found) later.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080324

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080324

00:44.43yukonbobrebuilds, observes
00:59.52starseekeris liking the awesomness that is now the Gallery
01:00.02starseekerawesomeness rather
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01:04.31yukonboblikes the pics, but is missing a nice way to navigate (didn't it used to be (day or two ago) easier?)
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03:03.36*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || Release 7.12.0 imminent (no really!) || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code, see http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code and join the developer mailing list
05:15.36brlcadAxman6: still not yet -- there's not been an X11 update from Apple yet afaik
05:15.44brlcadand the bug is *in* X11
05:16.54brlcadyukonbob: g-3dm was just added on friday
05:18.57CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30558 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/3dm/3dm-g.cpp: we're no longer including authorship in source files (put into docs instead), and don't use machine.h
05:23.33CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30559 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/Makefile.am: actually, there is no g-3dm. if there were, it'd probably be in the 3dm dir anyways. SUBDIRS should be sorted by alpha unless there is a dependency.
05:24.01brlcadthat should fix it, he added a bad Makefile.am -- specified a g-3dm but never added the files for it
05:24.20brlcadso yeah, you had the right idea spot-on
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13:07.06CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03dgodbey * r30560 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/3dm/3dm-g.cpp: Add getopt loop and trap ON_Curve, ON_Surface, and ON_Mesh.
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16:17.58brlcadhello pacman_87
16:22.22pacman_87hi brlcad
16:23.57brlcadrecalls playing pacman back in '87
16:24.32yukonbobpokes in
16:26.26brlcadhowdy yukonbob
16:26.43brlcadyukonbob: did you get that verbose autogen output?
16:27.23yukonbobya -- and now I'm failing on libtclcad.so (in mged) having undfined ref. to Blt_Init
16:28.18yukonbobthe reconf fails, but the piece-by-piece config seems to work; now I'm into compiler errors
16:30.34yukonbob(blt == own installation, and I've gone so far as to rename src/other/blt to src/other/_blt in the distribution to make sure I'm not cross-contaminating (despite also supplying --disable-blt-build)
16:30.38yukonbob)
16:32.19brlcadah, so autogen.sh actually gets past the problem and finished
16:32.45brlcadyeah, I've done zero testing with a system-installed blt
16:32.52yukonbobit does now -- using svn co -- and I'll check if I patched
16:33.09yukonbob:) -- well, I guess I'll do that testing
16:34.07yukonbobupdates to latest source (I had the references to g-3dm removed in my local copy, but not committed)
16:41.48brlcadi fixed that last night
16:42.02brlcadif you update it should merge in, maybe get a conflict
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17:31.47cosurgiHi is GSoC participation limited for students only?
17:33.00cosurgithinks "OpenGL GUI Framework", but he is a post-doc with little time, not a student that has summer holidays.
17:51.57brlcadcosurgi: yeah, GSoC is only for students (but students of almost any age and type)
17:52.28brlcadit's meant to be treated as a full-time job for the compensation, otherwise there's nothing to stop anyone from working on any of the project ideas ;)
17:52.29cosurgiis there any quick-start guide? I just installed the .deb package, and I don't know what to type inside brlterm to get anything drawn.
17:52.50brlcadyou ran mged?
17:53.09cosurgino.. brlterm
17:53.24brlcadah, something the debian maintainer put together
17:53.48brlcadbrl-cad has hundreds of binaries, but the current GUI (the one in most of the screenshots) is mged
17:54.07brlcadshould be able to just type "mged" to start it up
17:54.10cosurgiyes. So .deb it's not supposed to work?
17:54.15brlcadit should work
17:54.21brlcadit's a bit old, but it should work
17:54.33cosurgiunfortunately command not found. I'm checking....
17:54.40brlcadah
17:54.45brlcadsee if it installed into /usr/brlcad
17:54.50brlcadif so, "/usr/brlcad/bin/mged"
17:55.08brlcadmaybe he wrapped it in mged.sh
17:56.24cosurgiok... a bit better, mged is there, in /usr/brlcad/bin/
17:56.34cosurgibut lots of errors :-)
17:56.40cosurgi./mged: /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.4' not found (required by /usr/brlcad/lib/libdm.so.19)
17:56.54cosurgiI suppose I need to build from source
17:57.02brlcadsounds like the wrapper is mucking with the ld_library_path
17:57.04brlcadtry mged.sh
17:57.57brlcador build from source, that may be easier regardless :)
17:58.07brlcad~cadsvn
17:58.07ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
17:58.20cosurgiok. So I will use SVN :)
17:58.32cosurgimged.sh apparently is not present here :)
17:58.55brlcadah, well then I don't know what the hell the debian maintainer did ;)
17:59.09cosurginevermind. let's use SVN :)
17:59.30brlcadyou've been here before, haven't you?
17:59.36brlcadyour name is really familiar
17:59.56cosurgino, never. Or can't remember - at least not on this irc channel
18:00.02brlcadhuh
18:00.09brlcadmaybe another channel
18:00.11cosurgibut I've been more or less active in cad linux related stuff
18:00.17cosurgifor 5 years or more
18:00.46brlcadah, maybe on the mailing list then
18:00.48cosurgiI just seen GSoC announcement on cad-linux mailing list, and I think that maybe finally we will have some good CAD app
18:01.06alex_jonihmm, that didn't came across very nicely :)
18:01.35alex_jonis/came/come/
18:01.41brlcadyeah, I'm really hoping we can get some interest and activity sparked
18:01.46cosurgithat statement "finally we will have some good CAD app" ? :-)
18:02.13alex_jonicosurgi: yeah :P
18:02.15brlcadbrl-cad is by far the farthest along, more than 400 years effort into it, but we need a new UI and fully integrated brep support
18:02.39alex_jonibrlcad: when things settle down a bit, I'll have to bug you about some things
18:03.03brlcadalex_joni: go right ahead, any time
18:03.41alex_jonibrlcad: still the old thing that's on my mind.. getting from a .obj (or some other face-based version) to a solid
18:03.48brlcadcosurgi: you should be able to compile with: sh autogen.sh && ./configure --enable-all --enable-optimized && make && sudo make install
18:04.11yukonbobbrlcad: do you know what blt facilities are used in libtclcad?
18:04.20cosurgiwell, that's why I have some hope. There have been many efforts in the past. All died due to simple thing: no money cannot motivate enough to write CAD app - it's darn too big for single-person effort.
18:04.29brlcadyou can test the compile with "make test" and "make benchmark", and post install with just "/usr/brlcad/bin/benchmark"
18:05.07cosurgiin fact IMHO I would be a good candidate to write GUI, but I have too little time :(
18:05.28cosurgiI'm paid to develop another GPLed opensource app
18:05.44brlcadcosurgi: it really is .. I chuckle every time I see someone new announce their new little project
18:05.45alex_jonibrlcad: actually I would be thrilled if I could do obj (or stl or whatever) -> U3D (inside a pdf preferably)
18:06.13alex_jonicosurgi: otoh, there are countless *big* opensource projects without special foundings
18:06.21brlcadyukonbob: I believe it calls Blt_Init to have btclsh/bwish auto-load blt
18:06.27alex_jonimaybe countless is wishful thinking ;)
18:06.32brlcadsrc/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c iirc
18:06.33yukonbobnods
18:07.38cosurgialex_joni: yes, countless. But not related to CAD for simple reason - developers like to scratch their itch for free. That meands writing apps related to developing.
18:07.39brlcadcosurgi: fortunately, brl-cad is not only open source, but development is also still funded so we're not going away anytime soon
18:08.26cosurgigood news, I didn't know that :-)
18:09.01cosurgibrlcad: do youhave any vision about that GUI?
18:09.04brlcadyeah, it's been actively maintained and improved for more than 20 years now -- only opensourced for the last couple
18:09.05yukonbobcosurgi: there's lots of "good news" associated w/ BRL-CAD
18:10.30alex_joniwell, from what I saw there are still a couple of CAD programs..
18:10.43alex_jonibut if you move over to CAM, it rapidly changes to non-existant :)
18:10.54brlcadcosurgi: yes, I've got some architecture concepts to upload to the site soon, but the basic idea is a frontend/backend architecture where the gui frontend talks to the backend geometry engine
18:11.30brlcadthe gui itself being obviously a 3d framework, much more of an "integrated unified environment" than mged, plugin-based architecture
18:12.29cosurgiI'm interested in the frontend (what the user sees). I'm sure that backend and communication is pretty clear for you.
18:12.33CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30561 10/brlcad/tags/rel-5-1/mged/dm_old/dm-glX.c: yet another case issue with dm-glX.c
18:12.37brlcadyeah
18:13.16brlcadthe backend is actually what I care about most at this point as there's still quite a bit that *has* to happen to make arbitrary opengl shaded displays trivial
18:13.43cosurgiwell ok. To reveal my cards quickly: I've 14 year AutoCAD experience and 15 years C++ experience. So obviously I'd go in the autocad direction when taling about autocad.
18:14.07cosurgis/taling about autocad/taling about user frontend/
18:14.13cosurgiheh, Freud typo :-)
18:14.20brlcad:)
18:14.29brlcadthat's pretty nice, glad to hear it actually
18:14.53cosurgiAnd I deleted windows partition in 1999 and since then I used autocad only in vmware :->
18:15.12brlcadautocad brings some of the most "unique" aspects to the CAD domains, with their focus on 2D approaches for drafting and design purposes
18:16.04alex_jonibrlcad: ever tried Alibre?
18:16.31brlcadi'd certainly not call myself an expert in any of the major cad systems, just familiar with many/most of them -- more inclined to just get into the code and work on what modelers intrinsicly need (which is a hell of a lot)
18:17.21cosurgibrlcad: yes, like .xy filters, trim, extend etc, which make 2D draft really quick. And then - natural going 3D with elev, thickness, extrude, etc
18:17.23brlcadalex_joni: I can't say that I have used xpress, but have heard of it
18:18.46brlcadadmits to be more appreciative of the solid modeling and 3d modeling approaches
18:19.02alex_jonibrlcad: I use xpress once in a while, and it's quite nice
18:19.10alex_joni(especially the free part)
18:19.33brlcadyeah, but still commercial closed product
18:19.41brlcadi care about what we can do in the open source domain
18:19.42brlcad:)
18:19.53cosurgi..ok svn downloaded, lets try to compile.
18:20.32alex_jonibrlcad: I'm sure BRL-CAD can do much more, yet atm it has a steeper learning curve
18:20.35alex_joniimo
18:20.42brlcadit does, much much steeper
18:20.51brlcadthat's part of the whole "we need a new gui"
18:20.52cosurgibrlcad: simple questions, do you have line, polyline, circle, arc, ellipse, spline and regions?
18:21.22brlcadcosurgi: yes
18:21.39brlcadwe have a 2D "sketch" primitive that can contain any/all of those
18:22.11brlcadthe interface in mged to deal with them is exceptionally bad, as it was mostly meant as a basic editing means for imported geometries
18:22.18brlcadbut support for them is there now
18:22.21cosurgibrlcad: and does solid modelling build on top of them? (eg. by extruding regions?)
18:22.23brlcadand you can apply an extrude and voila
18:22.49cosurgior solid modelling is done in different way?
18:22.51brlcadstill don't have revolutions or sweeps (they're on the gsoc list) of those, but you can extrude
18:24.04alex_joniusually extruding and cutting
18:24.51brlcadwhat presently doesn't come across at all from the 2D models are the drafting aspects that have nothing directly to due with solid geometry and spatial occupancy
18:25.15brlcade.g. an attribute that something is a "dashed line" for example, is purely a drafting / display detail
18:25.29brlcadso those aren't presently captured/stored
18:25.48cosurgiok. Not tragic :)
18:26.14alex_jonihow about "parametric" aspects?
18:26.32alex_jonican you go back to 2d sketch and change some sizes, and regenerate?
18:27.15cosurgido you have layers similar to autocad layers? (1 freeze layer;  2 on/off; 3 layer linetypes; 4 layer line thickness; 5 layer colors; 6 layer names)
18:27.34brlcadit's not quite the same as in autocad in that you have to "regenerate" -- a 3D object based off a 2D sketch is tightly coupled to that 2D representation
18:27.49brlcadif you change the 2D, the 3D is simultaneously modified
18:27.55brlcadno layers
18:27.58brlcadlayers would be nice
18:28.33cosurgibrlcad: are layers planned in the future, or this would require some glbal reorganization of the code/framework?
18:28.35brlcadwe do have groupings, though .. you could implement layers with groups and attributes, but not something we try to deal with at the moment
18:28.55cosurgiok. I'm asking to get a global picture :)
18:29.18brlcadsure, ask as much as you can soak up ;)
18:29.29cosurgithanks :-)
18:30.09brlcadthe big effort going on right now is bidirectional brep support
18:30.10cosurgiso another basic question: how the GUI frontent will communicate with brlcad? (network socket? calling another binary? shared memory?)
18:30.36cosurgi(it's compiling now)
18:30.46brlcadso you can go between implicit and explicit representations more painlessly (which also gives us evaluated CSG for opengl display more easily)
18:31.38brlcadidea for now is a socket operation, so local port or network connection for starters
18:32.10cosurgiok. sounds good
18:32.19brlcadthere's nothing that would prevent the API from binding directly to the library api either, but it's a nice way to make sure there's a clean separate of gui and engine
18:32.33cosurgiyeah, I agree with that
18:33.03cosurgiwould it allow several people to work on the same drawing by talking to the same socket?
18:33.12brlcadyup!
18:33.45cosurgiheh :)
18:33.47brlcadallows multi-model repositories to be set up (e.g. per org/user)
18:34.01brlcadso you can have simultaneous multiuser editing
18:34.19cosurgiok, another simple question - what externali libraries does brlcad use? (eg. boost?)
18:34.58brlcadhistoric design philosophy is no *required* external dependencies, so everything you need is actually in that checkout
18:35.14brlcadsrc/other has the external dependencies that are desired/used
18:35.18cosurgiI was expecting that. A 20 year old project had to be independent :)
18:35.46brlcadtcl/tk is the big one, just about everything else is extracted into libs
18:36.12brlcadthere are a whole slew of libs I'd love to use for the new gui, just a matter of careful selection and keeping track of the dependencies that become implied
18:36.59brlcadi.e. their long-term "cost" has to be considered from a maintenance perspective, but there's no reason we can't add new deps if they can be managed easily
18:38.28cosurgiOK. for the GUI I highly recommend QT
18:38.37brlcadfor the 3D gui, using an existing display engine is pretty much required -- there's more than enough to code without trying to take on coding/maintaining our own infrastructure as well any more than we have to
18:38.51cosurgigtk is total mess, really.
18:39.04brlcadoh, yeah, I know ...
18:39.11brlcadgtk is dependency hell
18:39.21brlcadabout as bad as it gets really
18:39.37brlcadaside from the api limitations
18:39.49cosurgiI tried both GTK and QT. Finally I used QT and 4.0 is impressive C++ masterpiece. For GL I'm using qglviewer so I'd recommend it - it's extremly simple.
18:40.40brlcadthe biggest "problem" with Qt that I was reminded of just last week ... is the license
18:40.52brlcadGPL can be a problem for us
18:40.58cosurgithat's the app I'm developing: http://yade.wikia.com/ and there I used qglviewer
18:41.08cosurgioh...
18:41.14brlcadI'll have to do some serious thinking and planning to get gpl to fly
18:41.39brlcadthat's part why we abolished our own use of gpl last year
18:42.40brlcadyade looks pretty nifty :)
18:42.58cosurgiI see. It's up to you :-) Do you have any influence on the brlcad license, or it's in the "upper management" (which gives funding)?
18:43.04cosurgithanks :)
18:43.28brlcad"yes"
18:44.19brlcadanother aspect of the frontend/backend separation, though, is that the frontend could arguably be allowed to be gpl
18:44.22brlcadmaybe
18:44.30brlcadit's the backend that absolutely cannot
18:45.12cosurgiIn fact I'm not aware of any gui-toolkit which is not GPLed, but I'm debian-linux-centric. And not using QT (in my opinion) would be bad choice.
18:45.13brlcadwe hook into many many closed and commercial codes, that would kill our historic user-base and shoot ourselves in the foot
18:46.43cosurgiI see. Heh, talking through netowrk socket shouldn't violate the licence. I can check that with a friend debian developer
18:46.55cosurgihe knows licencing politics quite good
18:46.58brlcadthere are some, particularly if you start getting into custom gui toolkits ala gaming industry style custom interfaces
18:47.29brlcadblender, solidworks, etc style interfaces where you do pretty much everything via opengl
18:49.26brlcadnot saying that's the way to go, but it's certainly worth considering, especially for advanced interface concepts where standard widgets really don't work well
18:49.30cosurgiyes. Only one simple argument against: they wouldn't attract more developers due to their lack of popularity. (I don't know if one or another is well designed and easy to use)
18:50.37brlcadI've heard both from people interested in the gui
18:50.48cosurgiok :)
18:50.55brlcadsome that would rather see custom, some that would rather use toolkit
18:51.09brlcadthink it's heavily tied to what people have tried :)
18:51.18cosurgiof course.
18:51.57``Erikfinally all caught up O.o time to ignore irc for another week :D
18:52.00brlcadI think it'll be heavily dependent on just who steps up to the plate to work on the front-end, who's actually sticking around and getting things done ;)
18:52.06brlcad``Erik: about time
18:52.09brlcadlog in
18:52.11brlcad;)
18:52.15``Eriklog in to what?
18:52.20brlcadyou have mail
18:52.22brlcadfrom google
18:52.27cosurgibrb
18:52.30``Erikoh, uh, where? on bz?
18:52.35brlcadbeats me where
18:52.46brlcadwhatever you gave me for gsoc
18:52.53brlcadshould be a google account
18:52.54``Erikprobably my google mail thingy that I haven't looked at in, uh, like 2 years O.o
18:53.50cosurgiback
18:54.34cosurgiok. I got linker error: ./.libs/libbu.so: undefined reference to `Tcl_AppendElement'
18:54.35brlcadcosurgi: for the gui, I think most users really don't care that much what the gui is done it -- they care about the usabilities and features ;; whether there's anything to be gained developer-wise with qt vs custom vs gtk vs whatever I think really just boils down to taste
18:54.44``Erikbleh, why do they put legal agreements into undersized scroll boxes?
18:54.46cosurgiand warning: libtcl8.5.so, needed by ./.libs/libbu.so, not found
18:54.54brlcadyou pick any of them and you'll likely alienate a substantial developer base regardless
18:55.11``Erik<3 gtk+, but hasn't looked at qt in a long time
18:55.32brlcadcosurgi: huh, that's really odd .. you used --enable-all on configure?
18:55.36cosurgiand I have only tcl8.4-dev here (debian stable :)
18:55.47cosurgibrlcad: yes
18:55.56cosurgi<PROTECTED>
18:56.16cosurgishould I backport tcl8.5-dev ?
18:56.20brlcadenable-all turns off all external dependencies (other than things like libc, curses, X11 headers, etc
18:56.50brlcader, turns off linking against them if they're already system-installed (default is auto-detect)
18:56.59brlcadso it shouldn't be using your 8.4
18:57.06brlcadcan you pastebin
18:57.11brlcadthe whole error
18:57.20*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@203.200.95.130)
18:58.17brlcad``Erik: if you're on your mac, you can grab that lower right hand corner of any safaari textbox
18:58.20cosurgisure http://pastebin.com/d611c2418
18:58.21``Eriksome of these statements are a little concerning
18:58.39``Erikfirefox... I'm looking at the source, it's a lot more readable
18:58.44cosurgibrlcad: that's the end of the compilation. I can paste ALL if you want.
18:58.52brlcadgah, pastebin.com seems to be blocked from here
18:59.16brlcadcosurgi: can you pastebin it to http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/
18:59.19``Erikhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/ ftw
18:59.34brlcadshould add a ref for pastebin.brlcad.org
18:59.41``Erikwe should have cnames for pastebin.brlcad.org, paste.brlcad.org, etc
18:59.43``Erikheh
19:00.01``Erikgreat minds think alike, seems the flawed ones do, as well :D *duck*
19:00.03brlcad:)
19:00.45cosurgihttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d5ac8be85
19:01.19brlcaddanka!
19:01.32brlcadahhh
19:01.46brlcadf'ing libtool bustage on debian/ubuntu
19:02.04brlcadthere's no -ltcl on the link line
19:02.14brlcadyet there is on the libtool line
19:02.45brlcad(for libbu as a dependency)
19:02.48``Erikyeah, debian porked that up, I copy the autogen'd files from a sane host (fbsd) when doing something on debian
19:03.11cosurgiI see, so what is the fix? :)
19:03.23``Erikthey tweak it to "optimize" the link line... by something like "s/ .*//"
19:04.19brlcadyou can fight your way through it with cflags or try upgrading libtool
19:04.23``Erikdon't use debian? :D or autogen it somewhere else? or install a stock libtool?
19:05.04``ErikI thought we had -ltcl on the BU line explicitely?
19:05.51``Erikgoogle has a parent corp?
19:06.01brlcadcosurgi try: make LDFLAGS="-L../../src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -L../../src/other/tk/unix -ltk8.5"
19:06.40brlcadmight need to add in -ldl -lm -c -pthread too down the road
19:06.59``Erikerm, /path/to/brlcad/src/other/tcl/unix would be better, incase you're in src/conv vs src/com/jack for example
19:07.07CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30562 10/brlcad/tags/rel-5-2/mged/dm_old/dm-glX.c: yet another case issue with dm-glX.c
19:07.24hippieindamakin8hey cosurgi u still here ?
19:07.40cosurgihippieindamakin8: yes, what's up? :)
19:08.00brlcadah, true dat .. should be the full-path
19:08.02hippieindamakin8ya man u use qglviewer rt
19:08.13cosurgiwonders why someone needs him, since he just joined the channel ;-)
19:08.21hippieindamakin8:P
19:08.23brlcadneeds cosurgi :)
19:08.33brlcadneeds lots of things
19:08.36``Erikwithholds comment
19:08.39``Erik:D
19:08.57cosurgihippieindamakin8: yes, qglviewer is nice
19:08.58brlcadyou still havent' logged in
19:08.58hippieindamakin8ya i constantly get an error saying error loading shared libraries
19:09.13``Erikis reading eula
19:09.13hippieindamakin8ya it is simple to code :P
19:09.23hippieindamakin8its really cool
19:09.27cosurgihttp://artis.imag.fr/Members/Gilles.Debunne/QGLViewer/index.html
19:10.13hippieindamakin8k
19:10.48cosurgihippieindamakin8: is it about glut, glat, gl or such?
19:11.36``Erikheh, neat
19:11.37hippieindamakin8as in gl
19:11.49``Erik"urchinTracker();"
19:12.46``Erikthat's some ugly js
19:12.55cosurgihippieindamakin8: do you have freeglut3-dev installed?
19:13.04hippieindamakin8no
19:13.15cosurgitry it, then :)
19:13.40hippieindamakin8k
19:13.45cosurgibrlcad: is compiling now
19:13.59cosurgino errors now.
19:14.03cosurgiyet :)
19:14.13``Erikhrm
19:16.15cosurgibrlcad: is there a reference manual on wiki? I mean I'm - thinking about GUI frontend, but I have zero brlcad knowledge.
19:16.43cosurgiIs there any socket specs how to talk with brlcad? (I guess it's on the way? ;-)
19:16.51cosurgibrb 5min
19:21.43``Erikok, "pending"
19:25.48brlcadcosurgi: cool, what did you change?
19:26.28cosurgiI did  make LDFLAGS="-L/home/janek/20-Programowanie/10-cpp/51-Brlcad/brlcad/src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -L/home/janek/20-Programowanie/10-cpp/51-Brlcad/brlcad/src/other/tk/unix -ltk8.5"
19:26.37cosurginow I have make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
19:26.48brlcadcosurgi: a good start is probably the HACKING file, doc/PROJECTS, and src/README are probably good starters
19:26.49cosurgi../src/conv/asc2g operators.asc operators.asc2g
19:26.50cosurgi/home/janek/20-Programowanie/10-cpp/51-Brlcad/brlcad/src/conv/.libs/lt-asc2g: error while loading shared libraries: librt.so.19: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
19:27.18cosurgisame solution for this error as for tcl ?
19:27.34brlcadwell your compile did complete to get that far
19:27.40brlcadbut more libtool problems
19:27.52cosurgiyes, the compilation finished.
19:28.10brlcadit's trying to run a binary (src/conv/asc2g) to generate example geometry database files
19:28.30brlcadand failing to find the (so far uninstalled) libs
19:29.21brlcadlesse, what's easiest from there ..
19:29.46cosurgiI'm looking in the history, and I see other errors
19:29.53cosurgimake[2]: Entering directory `/home/janek/20-Programowanie/10-cpp/51-Brlcad/brlcad/src/sig'
19:29.56cosurgi/bin/sh ../../libtool --silent --tag=CC --mode=link gcc  -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3  -L/home/janek/20-Programowanie/10-cpp/51-Brlcad/brlcad/src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -L/home/janek/20-Programowanie/10-cpp/51-Brlcad/brlcad/src/other/tk/unix -ltk8.5 -o dconv  dconv.o ../../src/libbu/libbu.la ../../src/libfft/libfft.la
19:30.01cosurgilibtool: link: cannot find the library `../../src/libfft/libfft.la' or unhandled argument `../../src/libfft/libfft.la'
19:30.23brlcadls -la src/libfft/libfft.*
19:30.24cosurgi./ifftc 128 > irfft128.c
19:30.24cosurgi./ifftc: error while loading shared libraries: libtcl8.5.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
19:30.36brlcaddid you make -k or something?
19:30.36cosurgihmm, tcl still has a problem apparently
19:30.47brlcadit should have halted
19:31.03cosurgizsh: no matches found: src/libfft/libfft.*
19:31.36cosurgi'-k' - unless you told me so: no. Here's my history:
19:32.21cosurgisvn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad ; cd brlcad ; sh autogen.sh ; ./configure --enable-all --enable-optimized ; make ;  make LDFLAGS="-L/home/janek/20-Programowanie/10-cpp/51-Brlcad/brlcad/src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -L/home/janek/20-Programowanie/10-cpp/51-Brlcad/brlcad/src/other/tk/unix -ltk8.5"
19:32.35brlcadthat's so wierd
19:33.01cosurgimaybe I should make clean, or make a fresh checkout?
19:33.15cosurgibecause the unsuccesfull build remembered sth. about tcl configuration?
19:34.00brlcad'maybe', but I'd suggest installing libtool fresh if you can
19:34.18brlcadvanilla libtool should work cleanly out of the box
19:34.43brlcadi'd be glad to debug remote if you care to set up an account too
19:35.12cosurgibrlcad: yeah I can
19:35.59cosurgiwhich you prefer - debug remote or me installing libtool?
19:37.27brlcadeither works for me
19:38.06cosurgiok. login brlcad ?
19:38.38cosurgihm, my network connection is not fast
19:38.39CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30563 10/brlcad/tags/rel-5-3/mged/dm_old/dm-glX.c: yet another case issue with dm-glX.c
19:38.40brlcadsure
19:42.28*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487736D.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:45.04cosurgibrlcad: basically you could repeat my steps, as I pasted few lines above.
19:45.27brlcadyeah, I'll start with those steps
19:45.43brlcadlooking mostly for an easy work-around, or way to detect that broken libtool
19:47.52cosurgithat would be useful. It's a debian etch (stable) box, with few small quirks. For brlcad think of it as default install.
19:52.52CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30564 10/brlcad/tags/rel-5-4/mged/dm_old/dm-glX.c: yet another case issue with dm-glX.c
19:53.22brlcadone of the other devs reported the problems a long while ago and we've worked on it in the past
19:53.48brlcadbut it's really frustrating because for the most part all fingers seem to point at the debian guys for messing with the script
19:54.12brlcadperhaps embedded into apt, maybe it all behaves better
19:54.44brlcadbut when the exact same version downloaded from gnu usually works... it's hard to bother with
19:54.58cosurgithat's bad. If you can give me some technical detail I'll gladly send a bugreport.
19:55.47cosurgidebian guys don't fix anything unless someone files a bugreport
19:56.37cosurgibut if there's a bugreport they can fix it quickly, sometimes..
19:58.26brlcadI'll see if I can pinpoint it, though this is a busy week to dig if it needs digging :)
19:58.36brlcadcan probably pinpoint the cause, but not necessarily a fix
19:58.42``Erikwow, something uses libfft? (we should make a parallel version, libpfft)
19:59.32brlcadi started to run a benchmark between our libfft and fftw a couple weeks ago, didn't finish though
19:59.34cosurgibrlcad: no hurry for me, in general :)
19:59.48brlcads/run a benchmark/set up a comparison/
19:59.53brlcadcosurgi: ok :)
20:00.03cosurgibut I want to help as I can.
20:00.23cosurgiwhat are the start/end dates of GSoC ?
20:00.32brlcadsubmissions this week
20:00.42brlcadthen there's about two months iirc until summer
20:00.50brlcadthen three months of coding
20:01.10brlcadhttp://code.google.com/opensource/gsoc/2008/faqs.html#0.1_timeline
20:01.17cosurgianyone else was interested in GUI?
20:01.32brlcadso far, you're the first that I know of
20:01.38cosurgiI see...
20:02.48cosurgiMay 26: Students begin coding for their GSoC projects;
20:02.55cosurgion May 15 I expect a 3rd kid :>
20:03.12cosurgiI will need to help a lot my wife.
20:03.59brlcadcongratulations!
20:04.05cosurgithanks :)
20:04.43brlcadhow much time do you think you'll have?
20:04.48``Erikwow, commits to the 5 branches? (grats, cosurgi)
20:04.51brlcadjune-aug basically
20:05.06cosurgi``Erik: uh, what branches?
20:05.32``Erikbrlcad is commiting to some very old versions... *point*
20:05.50CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30565 10/brlcad/tags/offsite-5-3-pre/mged/dm_old/dm-glX.c: yet another case issue with dm-glX.c
20:06.06brlcadi'll be killing them all soon, but just hitting them up as they error out during checkout right now
20:06.18brlcadcase insensitive filesystem checkout problems
20:06.48brlcadthat file is probably in most tags/branches
20:07.10brlcadonce they're gone, I'll start pruning the dead branches/tags
20:07.18``Erikah, was some fool doing cvs or svn operations on a mac with hpfs instead of ufs? :D
20:07.38brlcadsomething like that
20:08.04cosurgibrlcad: I'm wondering :/ Because also I have to attend lots of conferences. 28-31 May Calgary (canada), 9-11 June Ludz (poland), 1-4 July Venice (italy), 13-20 July Montreal (canada), 9-12 September Gdansk (poland)
20:08.14cosurgis/Ludz/Lodz/
20:09.01``Erikif I understand, the stipend is only awarded if the project is successfully completed by the sept 01 'due date'?
20:09.03cosurgiAnd prepare presentations for them, etc. Life of a post-doc is not easy
20:09.04brlcadnice, that's gotta be a glast
20:09.50brlcad``Erik: students that are accepted get 500 at the beginning -- they could disappear and never be seen after that, and they'd have their 500
20:10.12brlcadthen there's a midterm and final evaluation, performed by the org -- where the student gets 2k each time if they pass the evaluation
20:10.21``Erikah, ok
20:10.56``Erikjust sayin' estimate time and make sure you can fit your proposed project(s) into it
20:11.08brlcadit amounts to a checkbox on a web form, thumbs up or down whether we're satisfied with the student -- and then the student has to upload their code
20:11.42cosurgiand I already have little time for the stuff I'm currently doing. But a CAD giu is a thing I always planned to write. It's even in my current dev plans for this summer.
20:11.56cosurgis/CAD giu/ CAD GUI/
20:12.11brlcadcosurgi: do you fit all the eligibility requirements?  http://code.google.com/opensource/gsoc/2008/faqs.html#0.1_eligibility
20:12.12cosurgibut I was planning to write something totally simple for yade
20:12.24brlcadsince you mentioned something in regards to that
20:12.58brlcadotherwise, yeah .. I'd just say scope it accordingly to your time availability and speak to that in the application (timeline, general estimates, etc)
20:13.25brlcadour main goal is to attract new long-term developers, folks that are going to stick around and help make things better
20:13.54cosurgiIf I take part in GUI and it will work I guess that I'll stick.
20:13.57brlcadit has very little to do with the projects themselves other than getting people to be productive, coding, and working together
20:14.32brlcadwonders if he can make autogen.sh detect/report when someone has a busted libtool.. :)
20:15.13cosurgireads eligibility stuff...
20:15.31``Eriktry to build a test .la with a 'complex' dep string and compare the result to the intent?
20:15.47cosurgiwell ok. I'm not. First sentence: "In order to participate in the program, you must be a student."
20:16.00cosurgipost-doc is not a student.
20:17.21cosurgipost-doc is a job at the university you get after defending PhD. :-) So I'm not even a PhD student
20:17.38``Eriksome are *shrug* one of the guys who worked on BRL-CAD a while back went and got his second doctorate, thus the lack of assumption :)
20:17.39brlcadahh
20:17.58brlcadmakes sure with leslie
20:18.00``Erikor actually, I think he's doing his thesis right now?
20:18.24cosurgiI didn't start another PhD :>
20:19.15brlcadare you actually "enrolled" right now?  that's what it'd amount to record-wise to google iirc
20:19.56cosurgibrlcad: no. I didn't enroll, or do anything in this aspect. First thing for me was to checkout brlcad.
20:20.10hippieindamakin8hey Sean.. i want to work on brlcad in GSOC and later .. and all i am good at is autocad:P ; C++ and CAD (academic stuff as in mathematics and manipulations)
20:20.35brlcadno, I mean with your university -- whether they have you on the books as "enrolled" -- whatever that means in your country
20:20.55brlcadhippieindamakin8: yes, you said that a couple days ago :)
20:21.08hippieindamakin8so can u guide me ?
20:21.22hippieindamakin8as in started looking up those libraries
20:21.27hippieindamakin8as u have mentioned
20:22.16cosurgibrlcad: if "enrolled" means beaing employed, getting salary and paying taxes for that, then yes :/
20:24.06hippieindamakin8cosurgi: Google defines a student as an individual enrolled in or accepted into an accredited institution including (but not necessarily limited to) colleges, universities, masters programs, PhD programs and undergraduate programs. You should be prepared, upon request, to provide Google with transcripts or other documentation from your accredited institution as proof of enrollment or admission status. Computer Science does not need to be your
20:24.06hippieindamakin8field of study in order to participate in the program.
20:24.17cosurgihm. (I checked dictionary, no clear explanation) but I suppose that enrolled means the opposite.
20:24.50cosurgihippieindamakin8: yeah, I've read that.
20:24.59hippieindamakin8ohh :)
20:27.05brlcadhippieindamakin8: guiding you depends heavily on what you're interested in doing -- it's a big package and not time to learn it all even before gsoc begins
20:27.45brlcadcosurgi: sounds then like maybe a no?  could maybe enroll at a local community college :-)
20:27.47hippieindamakin8:) i am interested in developing geometry apis and oo geometry engine
20:28.17brlcadcosurgi: either way, you're still more than welcome to help work on it :)
20:28.32``ErikI'm under the impression that a lot of U's have deeply discounted courses available to employees? the google terms sound like as long as you're enrolled in a class on apr14, it's good?
20:28.44brlcadI could probably even sort something out in the way of compensation, but certainly not to the level of gsoc over the entire summer at the moment
20:28.51cosurgibrlcad: surprising for me that there is no a post-doc position in USA (you are from US, right?)
20:29.02cosurgibrlcad: thanks :)
20:29.51hippieindamakin8cosurgi : where are u from?
20:29.52brlcadsomething like that -- they just need the "student" qualifier for legal&tax reasons iirc
20:30.02cosurgihippieindamakin8: poland :)
20:30.24hippieindamakin8ohh
20:30.38brlcadcosurgi: yes, in the US -- and we do have postdocs too
20:30.54brlcadsome are faculty candidates, some are still students, some it's just a job
20:31.01brlcada research job
20:31.13brlcadi.e., it doesn't answer the question :)
20:31.29hippieindamakin8in US u can apply as an internee at some research labs
20:32.10``Eriklots of companies like interns, good cheap labor O.o :D
20:32.13cosurgiOK. actually I'm employed at two universities, post-doc in one, assistant professor in another. A reasearch job. Clearly not a student.
20:32.15brlcadhippieindamakin8: do you mean the geometry converter API or the OO geometry engine API?
20:32.35brlcadcosurgi: can you take a class this summer? :)
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20:32.44brlcadintro to basket-weaving
20:32.51``Erikunderwater basketweaving
20:33.01brlcadthat's too much work ;)
20:33.22``Erikwhich was that out of? berkeley? or stanford? O.o
20:33.24hippieindamakin8brlcad: i meant both but more interested in oo geometry engine and i think i can do it..
20:33.48CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30566 10/brlcad/tags/rel-5-0-beta/mged/dm_old/dm-glX.c: yet another case issue with dm-glX.c
20:33.57cosurgiin fact I always wanted to also finish the physics faculty (and get a 3rd master degree ;), but I doubt I could do it this summer :)
20:34.10hippieindamakin83rd degree :O
20:34.32cosurgisorry I don't like to boast, do you really want to hear explanation?
20:34.53``Erikheh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_basket_weaving
20:34.54hippieindamakin8go on
20:35.07cosurgiknocks himelf in the head - shouldn't start this.
20:35.22brlcadhippieindamakin8: then you should focus on a good proposal for OO geometry engine first, there's not much time remaining to do a good proposal for both and get feedback from you
20:35.36hippieindamakin8ohk ohk..
20:35.47brlcadcosurgi: no, sure, good to know .. especially if you hang around ;)
20:36.40cosurgihippieindamakin8: I got two master degrees: architectura faculty and civil engineering. And a PhD in numerical modelling of concrete (with C++)
20:37.31cosurgiPhD was done in civil engineering faculty. Not CS
20:37.38brlcadhippieindamakin8: for the engine, you'll need to familiarize yourself with libwdb and librt .. also read up on the jbrlcad module ; you should skim through the docs on the website and the docs/ dir in the sources to get a feel for what they do
20:37.56hippieindamakin8ohk
20:39.15brlcadif you want me to review a draft proposal, you can post it somewhere (on your site, on the brl-cad wiki, whereever)
20:39.49brlcador post it as a submission and it'll get commented on from there
20:40.02hippieindamakin8ohk
20:41.08cosurgibrlcad: OTOH I'm afraid that starting a GUI might be too much for a student.
20:41.32brlcadit really depends on the student
20:41.44brlcadand if "starting it" is all they can do, that's a perfectly fine project too
20:41.54cosurgiof course, bright people are ot there :)
20:42.01brlcadso long as they leave things in an improveable maintainable state
20:42.07cosurgiif someone comes up I won't resist helping him.
20:42.48brlcadyeah, we had one guy working on bzflag last year that was astounding (probably one of the top 5 students in gsoc last year) .. he worked on a new world modeler for bzflag
20:43.36brlcadended up writing more than 10000 lines of code while *also* interacting with the other devs, pushing out test clients to users, iterating on feedback, etc .. put in a lot of hard effort
20:43.55brlcadit's up to about 20000 lines since
20:44.11cosurgidoes he want to participate this year?
20:44.28brlcada complete "outlier" case of course, but at least shows what's possible
20:44.56brlcadyeah, he'll be in again this year in all likelihood if he applies again
20:45.20cosurgiask if he is interested in brlcad ;-)
20:45.24brlcadthere's nothing wrong with return students or students that become mentors or mentors that become students, etc
20:45.29brlcadahh, hehe
20:45.32``Eriklooks back at his code output from ten years ago and sighs O.o
20:46.44brlcadbzflag already gave us the leg up for participating this year, won't go poaching their most successful student next ;-)
20:47.03cosurgiheh, I see :-)
20:47.14``Eriknotes that bzflag is a game, therefore "sexy", unlike cad software O.o
20:47.31brlcadfinds BRL-CAD sexy :P
20:47.40``Erikyes, you are a twisted monkey :D
20:47.46brlcadjust hasn't had her makeover yet
20:48.00cosurgione of the reasons there is still nothing in open-source world that can compete with autocad
20:48.54cosurgiseveral years ago I was investigating blender for that. But gave up.
20:50.06``Erikand, um, how many open source games seem to be on par with modern triple-a titles? O.o :D with 8 zillion trying... big software is hard
20:50.25cosurgifor few reasons. Not only lack of time. blender is written in C in too stiff manner, small flexibility.
20:50.43cosurgiyes, obviously is hard.
20:51.24cosurgiafter that announcement on cad-linux my hopes light up again. I'm curious what will come out of this.
20:52.16cosurgibrlcad: the information what to display in OpenGL with go through network socket, right?
20:52.58cosurgi(yes it will)
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20:53.36``Erikstarts packing up to head home O.o
20:54.46cosurgibrlcad: typical scenario: brlcad sends huge list of stuff to draw (each has an ID), then GUI answers - move ID 1234 by 10 in X direction. Extrude ID 1235 by 11 in Y direction. Select group 1. and so on...?
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20:56.58brlcadcosurgi: ahh, so you were part of that whole cause for blender?  or at least related to it
20:57.46cosurgibrlcad: related, I think. In fact I didn't make any real work which you could download.
20:58.18brlcadcosurgi: i'm pretty excited by gsoc too -- if we're "successful" this year, it can turn into an annual event and really help accellerate development
20:59.00brlcadsorry, catching up in fifo order ;)
20:59.16cosurgisure :)
21:00.41brlcadcosurgi: actually was presuming first stab would be a unix socket first, network sockets aren't much different, just adds more latency
21:01.13brlcadbut yeah, the information to display would come throught the socket
21:02.08brlcadso you have a whole protocol/api of read/modify/set/write/perform operations possible
21:03.30cosurgiok. So that's clear for me. I like this idea.
21:03.32brlcadfirst stab being a simple single-user read/write wrapper
21:03.57cosurgiWhen I was planning my own app it was supposed to work like that.
21:04.05brlcadgmta ;)
21:04.10brlcad*ahem*
21:05.02cosurgiso first step for me is to learn the commands that I can read/warite to the socket.
21:05.36*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487736D.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:05.50cosurgifirst focus on reading.
21:06.01cosurgiload some example and try to display it in GL
21:06.18brlcadthe api should be designed fairly generic to the actions needed (e.g. not necessarily needing to know how brl-cad does what it does under the hood just yet)
21:07.17brlcadlookup geometry by name, get ids/handles, get a particular visual representation, perform a given edit operation, etc
21:07.38cosurgiok.. question - what there is currently on the brlcad end? Do you already have a working socket?
21:08.05brlcadit would be *really* cool if the whole API could be non-blocking stateless, but I'm not so sure
21:09.21brlcadyou mean right now, no there's not a whole lot done on the brl-cad side other than our libs -- this would be a completely new layer for the new gui that sits between the existing libs and binaries and the new gui
21:09.36cosurgiin other words, could I start right away with coding openGL which reads brlcad socket to display stuff? Or do I need to wait for integrated brep support, or such?
21:10.30cosurgiI see
21:10.49cosurgiso as much as I can help with the GUI I'm hopeless on brlcad side.
21:11.14brlcadintegrated brep support is what's presently being worked because without that, we can't do anything other than wireframe
21:11.38cosurgiare you familiar with some OpenGL data formats?
21:11.39brlcadwe need brep to go from implicit csg -> explicit brep spline surface -> explicit polygonal
21:12.02brlcadyeah, display lists ftw
21:12.09cosurgiok :)
21:12.42cosurgiso if we talk about wireframe. Can you send it through the socket, now?
21:12.57brlcadsure
21:13.03brlcadthat's kinda how mged presently works
21:13.16brlcadjust not over a socket, it just calls the api directly
21:13.31cosurgigood.
21:15.54brlcadso fully abstracted, maybe there's a "getAvailableRepresentations OID" protocol command that returns a set (text, points, wireframe) .. then "getRepresentation wireframe OID" that returns a display list for the wireframe of that given object iD
21:16.30brlcadmost of that protocol is still TBD frankly, especially the actual implementation detail
21:16.43cosurgiok.... so after I grasp how brlcad works in general I might give it a try - to display wireframe stuff by reading the secket.
21:16.52brlcadokay
21:17.28cosurgiAs long as I don't need to make my hands (too) dirty with brlcad code (which is huge)
21:18.45cosurgiIf the only thing I'll need to know - is what to write to the socked, and how to read it - I'm perfectly happy with whatever you do beneath
21:19.49brlcadyou shouldn't -- if you need help or snippets, I can usually help in that regard
21:20.35cosurgiwell, to have some excuse for my emplyoers - would be useful if I could export some data which yade could read :)
21:20.48brlcadthat would be cool
21:21.01brlcadloves integration/collaboration efforts
21:21.03cosurgibut if I can display it in GL, of course I can export it :)
21:21.56brlcadcept wireframe display and polygonal are vastly different .. and for CSG and parametric you have evaluated and unevaluated
21:24.15cosurgipolygonal is different because faces have normals, or why?
21:24.27cosurgiie. and becasue there are faces.
21:24.47brlcadah, maybe a picture better describes it
21:25.28brlcadconsider this wireframe:  http://brlcad.org/gallery/s/screenshots/extractor.png.html
21:25.55cosurgiyes?
21:25.56brlcadit's basically an unevaluated wireframe representation
21:26.14brlcadwhere the wireframe and the rendering (on the left) are obviously drasticly different
21:26.33brlcad(not the hidden-line rendering in the bottom-left .. that's raster)
21:27.03cosurgiok. I see. Union/substraction/etc
21:27.08brlcadright
21:27.28brlcadthere are a slew of other primitives involved (that have wireframe aspects) to make that shape
21:27.48cosurgihmm. I prefer if brlcad does this for me. Rendering GL is easier than parsing the wireframe to union/substract :-)
21:28.17cosurgi(that statement was obvious)
21:28.18brlcadyeah, that is ideal -- which is why we're focusing on brep evaluation of csg implicits ;)
21:28.50brlcadimplicit geometry (which is the predominant representation in use) is not a form you can feed to opengl
21:29.03cosurgiyes.
21:29.39brlcadwe have a (utterly massive) system now that will evaluate the implicit geometry and dump out polygons (most of the converters do this) .. but it's fundamentally flawed, np-complete approach
21:30.18brlcadby going through brep we first convert the implicit objects to spline surface boundary representation objects
21:30.40brlcadwith those breps, we can *easily* give you the evaluated wireframes that you'd expect or polygonal
21:32.12cosurgihold on.
21:32.34cosurgi*easily* applies to what you currently have the "fundamentally flawed", or the planned new one?
21:32.48*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || Release 7.12.0 imminent (no really!) || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code, see http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code and join the developer mailing list || GSoC application submissions are now open, submission deadline is March 31st
21:34.33brlcadthe approach now that is flawed is "implicit w/ CSG -> explicit evaluated polygonal" .. the approach that we're trying to get to is "implicit w/ CSG -> explicit unevaluated spline surface -> explicit evaluated spline surface -> explicit evaluated polygonal"
21:34.50brlcadmore steps but each step is actually well-behaved and pretty fast
21:35.19brlcadthat first step is a bit of a b!tch .. at least it's a lot of work, the others aren't so bad though
21:35.29brlcadespecially going from spline surface to polygonal
21:35.50cosurgiOK
21:36.06cosurgiand that screenshot and the redering is using that old method.
21:36.50cosurgiWould it be too much data to send over a socket for GL display?
21:38.13cosurgiI mean using the current flawed method for the GUI. Just curious.
21:42.37cosurgiany progress with compiling it on debian etch?
21:43.23cosurgiI'll eat something and go to sleep soon
21:44.09cosurgibut you can stay logged in and tinker when you have time.
21:45.29cosurgiThe only thing is that my crappy connection "reconnects" to change IP number every few days. So you might need to ssh again and again after some time.
22:07.24``Erik*yawn*
22:08.24``Erik*cookcookcook* yay food
22:09.44cosurgiok. I just ate. Goodnight then.
22:09.59``Eriknight, dude, take it easy
22:17.03brlcadthe only thing that is flawed in what I was describing was going directly from implicit to evaluated polygonal -- that's an np-complete approach, lots of N^3'd algorithms
22:19.33brlcadmy unquantified gut feeling is that I don't think it's too much data, at least not for 95% of the time -- the client can still cache representations and only re-fetch when stamps/checksums change
22:22.20``Erikif region notions are obeyed (enforced?), only regions will have to be translated, no?
22:23.26brlcadtranslated?
22:25.09``Erikconverted from implicits to triangles (or nurbs)
22:25.41``Erikiirc, there are lame GLU functions to convert nurbs to tristrip lists
22:25.44brlcadnah, not just regions
22:26.01brlcadthis isn't like the exporters, this is foundation for display
22:26.06brlcadso even if you just had a sphere
22:26.19``Erik<PROTECTED>
22:26.24brlcadand wanted to display it, it would go through that describe loop
22:26.30``Eriknot a whole vehicle, just every region in the vehicle
22:26.36brlcadyeah..
22:26.40``Erikwhich'll cut that n^3 a fair bit
22:26.57brlcadthere's still a question of what to do with non-union ops above the region level
22:27.05brlcadthey can be pushed down, but they're still a pita
22:27.15``Erikdoes that violate the strict region notion?
22:27.19brlcadthat's where I'd really like a CSG library that optimized
22:27.25brlcadnot really
22:27.33brlcadthey're usually negative booleans
22:27.58brlcad"subtract the engine (shape) from the hull (region)"
22:27.59alex_joni-FALSE?
22:28.03alex_joni:P
22:28.11``Erikhehehe http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=612
22:29.06``Erikyeah, but you don't subtract the engine, you subtract the shape of the engine, so you'd need a comb that is contained singly in a region to be able to make that subtraction, then reference the shape, not the region, if I grok it all right :D
22:29.14``Erikthus the "strict" regions
22:30.21brlcadthat would "help" but you're still applying a negative boolean far above the region level
22:30.34brlcadi mean, it's not a problem, that's why we allow it
22:30.55brlcadfunctionally equivalent to applying the negative at the region level for all regions under that node
22:31.00``Erikhmmm, ok, I gotcha
22:32.17brlcadin terms of evaluating the CSG expression, though .. that's usually horrid complexity (particularly the damn sort of subtract this massive object (engine) from this other massive object (hull))
22:32.35brlcadthat's where I think a CSG lib would help
22:33.26brlcadwould be able to basically perform tree contraction so if the hull was a bunch of arbs, it'd simplify to an equivalent expression, automatically cull away all the bloat that doesn't impact the operation
22:34.04brlcadeven if it's a massive bot, it should be possible to trim away the portions that have nothing to do with the overlapping shape
22:34.54brlcadthere's also a whole class of functional CSG transformations we could do too where a given u + - - + u u + - might be compressible to a simpler formula
23:49.53hippieindamakin8Sean is there a NSIS based installer yet ?
23:51.13brlcadyup
23:51.30brlcadthere's one for 7.12.0 sitting in anon ftp that hasn't been uploaded yet
23:51.46hippieindamakin8ohh
23:51.48brlcadand the one on sf should be nsis too
23:52.03hippieindamakin8wanted to submit it for the gsoc
23:52.09hippieindamakin8application
23:52.31hippieindamakin8how important is the submission of a patch
23:52.32hippieindamakin8?
23:53.35*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu)
23:54.40brlcadhippieindamakin8: it'll help your chances
23:54.50brlcadbut won't strictly be a turn-down point
23:55.06hippieindamakin8k thanks for the info
23:55.12brlcadas the guidelines say, it can be something trivial
23:55.26brlcadit's mostly to make sure you can checkout, make patches, know where sites are, etc
23:55.34hippieindamakin8ohk..
23:55.38brlcadif you can't make a simple patch, you're not going to be very effective
23:55.48hippieindamakin8:)
23:56.03brlcadeven if you never have, a few google searches and a half-hour later you have a patch
23:56.26hippieindamakin8kk.. i thot we were supposed to patch up the bugs
23:56.36hippieindamakin8existing one
23:56.42hippieindamakin8*ones
23:58.33hippieindamakin8back in 2006-07 i and my friend in my university made nsis installers for ubuntu and debian from windows
23:59.28brlcadfixing a bug is ideal, it can show coding competency
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080325

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080325

00:32.45brlcadgiving we're probably only going to accept no more than 4 students, maybe as low as 2, it's a good idea to impress ;)
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04:17.26brlcadmmm, annotations and parametrics will be really cool
04:17.37brlcadeven believes that guy might actually be able to implement it
04:22.26yukonbobwaves in -- feels it's been interesting chatter in here last couple days
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05:19.31hippieindamakin8so how many applications have u recieved so far ?
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06:00.39brlcadhippieindamakin8: worry about yours :)
06:02.31brlcadI don't know if you participated last year, but your chances are considerably higher the earlier you get it in .. and chances tend to be much higher with orgs that take on fewer students (like us!) if the applications are focused
06:07.33Z80-Boybrlcad: I may need to use BRL-CAD to model a monitor, wall holder, a cabinet and a room corner because I want to make a custom wall holder for a monitor
06:08.12Z80-Boybrlcad: also, althought it might sound funny in the company of gadgets like the Hubble Telescope, Ronja has been published on a IEEE conference.
06:09.15brlcadcool, which one?
06:09.32Z80-BoyTENCON 2006
06:09.40Z80-BoyDo you want to know the ISBN? :]
06:10.00Z80-Boyfinds it funny that a design like Ronja has an ISBN
06:10.24brlcadin india?
06:10.28brlcadooh, 2006
06:10.33Z80-BoyAsia
06:10.37Z80-BoyI don't know where exactly
06:10.59brlcadhong kong
06:11.19brlcadhttp://www.ieee.org.hk/tencon2006/
06:11.44brlcadso did you publish something, or one of your users?
06:12.46Z80-BoyOne of the users did some modification - replace the LED with a laser diode - and wrote an article about it. Because I designed virtually the whole device, he put me there as a co-author
06:12.51Z80-Boyhttp://ronja.twibright.com/web.php
06:12.58Z80-Boythere's a link to abstract and full text
06:13.14Z80-BoyHe put me there as "Karel Kulhavy, Twibright Laboratories, Prague, Czech Republic" ;-)
06:16.36Z80-BoySomeone else wrote a thesis about underwater Ronja: "the future tactical ocean environment will be increasingly complicated. In addition to traditional communication links there will be a proliferation of unmanned vehicles..."
06:17.19Z80-BoyApparently the idea is to mount Ronja on some kind of combat submarines?
06:17.34Z80-BoyThey should make sure they are big enough not to sink under the weight of Ronja :]
06:18.26brlcadlight-based transmission would not be my first thought for underwater comms
06:19.58Z80-Boyyou could communicate with torpedoes
06:20.06Z80-Boysend the "we don't like you" message/
06:20.36Z80-Boysubmarines use like 20kHz to connect with the land, don't they?
06:47.00brlcaddunnos
06:53.05cosurgibrlcad: good morning, I see that you are compiling :-)
06:53.14brlcad:)
06:53.17cosurgilooks through backlog
06:53.26brlcadand now going to bed :)
06:53.32cosurgi(it's 7:50 here)
06:53.54Z80-Boyis listening to 7 years and 50 days from groove coverage
06:54.10brlcad-5 here
06:59.31cosurgiheh :) (still reading - not easy with 2y daughter sitting at keyboard ;)
06:59.40cosurgiis compilation succesfull?
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09:43.35F-fisherhello
09:43.47F-fisheris there smeone here ??
09:44.26F-fisherno, i'm alone
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10:11.58nmh_2Grajwhi, I was hoping someone could point out how to get the brlcad install process to provide libblt2.4.so (in addition to libblt2.4.a).  I am installing from source.
10:29.46cosurginmh_2Grajw: debian?
10:30.02nmh_2Grajwconsurgi: macos 10.4
10:30.13cosurgiI tried this:
10:31.17cosurgisvn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad ; cd brlcad ; sh autogen.sh ; ./configure --enable-all --enable-optimized ; make LDFLAGS="-L/home/janek/20-Programowanie/10-cpp/51-Brlcad/brlcad/src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -L/home/janek/20-Programowanie/10-cpp/51-Brlcad/brlcad/src/other/tk/unix -ltk8.5"
10:31.48cosurgibut it was on debian. Then I stumbled on some debian-related error, and brlcad is now looking into it.
10:32.13cosurgibut it's night in US now, so he is sleeping ;)
10:33.11nmh_2Grajwconsurgi: well, this seems better than what I have right now.  Would you mind telling me what error you hit?
10:34.41cosurgisth libtool related: libtool: link: cannot find the library `../../src/libfft/libfft.la' or unhandled argument `../../src/libfft/libfft.la', /home/janek/20-Programowanie/10-cpp/51-Brlcad/brlcad/src/conv/.libs/lt-asc2g: error while loading shared libraries: librt.so.19: cannot open  shared object file: No such file or directory
10:36.35nmh_2Grajwconsurgi: I will just hope to not see that myself.  Thanks for the suggestion
10:37.18cosurgihe said that libtool on debian is broken :)
10:38.01cosurginow I must do some work, but later I will either install libtool from source, or hope that brlcad will fins a fix for this :)
10:38.27nmh_2Grajwconsurgi: have fun with your work
10:40.06cosurgiheh, thanks :>
11:20.23starseekerZ80-Boy:  The Ronja screenshot would be a good one to add to the Gallery:  http://images.twibright.com/images/ronja/promotion/screenshots/brl-cad.png
11:21.01clock_starseeker: yes
11:22.57clock_cosurgi: and I cannot start mged now - it hangs :)
11:39.33starseekerclock_:  What's the url for checking out from the ronja src tree?
11:39.47clock_starseeker: not possible at the moment
11:39.53starseekerAh
11:39.55clock_Is there a way how to display SVN on HTTP?
11:47.46*** join/#brlcad cad20 (n=63fd349a@bz.bzflag.bz)
12:39.48``Eriklock: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_with_submarines
12:39.53``Eriks/^/c/
12:40.28``Erik/t lurk, damnit.
13:11.57clock_oh yes
13:12.13clock_pumping tons of AC into the earth so that submarines can catch a tiny fraction of that
13:12.57clock_Sime ELF communication with submarines: if the submarines stop seeing the 50Hz and 60Hz signals, they know the end of civilization has just passed.
13:13.01clock_Sime -> Simple
13:46.39brlcadadded screenshot
13:47.40clock_brlcad: my screenshot?
13:47.53brlcadyes
13:47.59clock_jumps around
13:49.24brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/gallery/s/screenshots/
13:52.01clock_cassini, interesting
13:52.41clock_did they actually use BRL-CAD on Hubble and Cassinin development?
13:52.50brlcadhubble, yes
13:52.52brlcadcassini, no
13:53.06clock_Who did Hubble? ESA? NASA?
13:53.19brlcadhubble involved lots of people
13:53.34brlcadstsi, nasa
13:53.38clock_what did they use BRL-CAD for?
13:54.03clock_Cassini is European isn't it?
13:54.28brlcadvisualizations, optics
13:55.03clock_I guess they surely had some good pseudoreason why waste money on expensive commercial modeller, when USA have developed a free one from their state budget
13:55.05brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassini-Huygens says it was joint
13:55.27brlcadoh, they still spend on the expensive
13:55.31clock_Designed in a THC epiphany?
13:55.43clock_("it was joint")
13:56.18clock_So they actually raytraced the optics in the Hubble with BRL-CAD?
13:56.56brlcadwe had nothing to do with that mirror ;)
13:57.10clock_they used the wrong material code?
13:57.17clock_assumed air instead of vacuum?
13:57.36brlcadno
13:57.53brlcadthe first mirror in hubble had a flaw, out of focus due to manufacturing flaw
13:57.59clock_oh for a mirror it doesn't actually matter
13:58.19clock_they didn't try to focus a desk lamp on a wall first before sending it into the sky?
13:58.31clock_that's how I asses lens quality
13:59.21brlcad"they" involved thousands of people, dozens of major companies, several governments
13:59.34clock_oh companies and government, they always screw things up
13:59.43clock_if it were made by enthusiasts in garage, it would surely work fine
14:00.45brlcadI'd already added a ronja rendering to the renderings section: http://brlcad.org/gallery/s/renderings/
14:02.31clock_jumps around
14:02.38clock_the hubble looks a bit like an oversize Ronja
14:02.45clock_I am sure it would have a good range
14:03.07clock_One night I
14:03.22clock_ll climb up the sky with a ladder and unscrew secretly their mirror and put it into my Ronja
14:04.26clock_We should beam the Ronja instructions into the deep space
14:04.45clock_then all aliens will build it to download pr0n and we can easily detect them as planets shining in red
14:06.56clock_brlcad: can BRL-CAD simulate also Fresnel lens if I use the equation to produce lots of truncated general cones?
14:18.39brlcadno reason why not, but wouldn't use tgcs
14:19.03clock_which ones then to make those grooves?
14:19.22``Erik<-- flips css off
14:32.58*** join/#brlcad cad66 (n=6161d635@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:33.14brlcadhello cad66
14:33.19brlcadbye bye cad66
14:34.45brlcadclock_: a fresnel lens is just a bunch of layered paraloids with sections cut away
14:35.12clock_brlcad: should I model it like that?
14:35.17brlcadso i'd think you'd want to use layers of ELLs or EPAs
14:35.47clock_brlcad: do you think they use paraboloids when they manufacture? Or cones?
14:36.00clock_An ideal Fresnel should have paraboloids of course
14:36.10brlcadI think they just mill it out of a single sheet of glass
14:37.43brlcadgetting the prism cuts is the hard part
14:38.08brlcadat least for a lens
14:51.15cosurgiI asked debian dev about licese problems, summarizing: brlcad licenses BSD+LGPL+public_comain indeed conflicts with GPL used in QT.
14:51.26clock_AFAIK they make a precision mold and they mold it from PMMA.
14:51.50clock_cosurgi: do they really?
14:51.51cosurgibrlcad: but, it is OK to communicate through a socket between a GPLed GUI frontend and brlcad.
14:54.17cosurgihis reasoning is that GUI frontend is just a client code and it can talk with anything which uses a certain socket communication API. It doesn't matter that it talks with brlcad. Also it's not a problem that the API is defined by brlcad, because BSD license is less restrictive.
14:54.31cosurgiif it was other way round: brlcad using QT - it's a conflict.
14:54.51cosurgiBut the frontend GUI (eg. QT) is using brlcad - no conflict
14:55.11cosurgiso we have here a conflict only in one direction.
14:55.46cosurgiwhich is good for us :)
14:56.59cosurgiSo we would have licence conflict if such GUI frontend used direct library calls. But if we talk through socket we are safe.
14:57.15cosurgiI was relieved to hear that :)
14:58.39cosurgianyway, I'm on my regular work now. I'll get back to compiling brlcad in the evening.
15:03.52brlcadcosurgi: they dont' conflict in the sense that it would just require that the front-end be gpl :)
15:04.11brlcadah, which you later say
15:04.18brlcadshould read all before commenting
15:05.01brlcadfwiw, the sources are almost all LGPL, not BSD -- the BSD portions are the build system, documentation, and data files
15:06.00brlcadahh, and it looks like laptop lid has closed, or ip changed
15:06.52brlcadI was able to reproduce the failure as expected with no problem (and was just now going to dig into a workaround) :)
15:13.11cosurgibrlcad: yeah my IP changed. sorry for that
15:13.28cosurgibrlcad: did you use screen? do you have my current IP ?
15:13.50cosurgi77.253.129.137
15:14.21cosurgibrlcad: I have no influence on my ISP behaviour. That's why I'm using dyndns
15:15.30cosurgibrlcad: if you find a workaround I will be grateful :)
15:18.40cosurgiabsurd.kozicki.pl or absurd.homelinux.net  should work for you.
15:22.56brlcadah, cool
15:23.23brlcadi'm in
15:24.15cosurgigreat. but I must leave now for aprox 1h. Get kid from kindergarten :-)~
15:24.35cosurgisee you later :)
15:26.01brlcadcya!
15:27.24brlcadahh, running screen inside of screen is .. challenging
15:58.24``Eriknah it ain't
15:58.29``ErikI do it all the time :D
15:59.39``Erikhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d790904dd   <-- makes it trivial
16:02.00brlcadhow do you handle things like ctrl-a a, ctrl-a e
16:02.24brlcadctrl-a d even
16:03.42``Erik^a a d
16:10.53*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.200.134)
16:40.01cosurgibrlcad: ok, I'm back
16:40.59cosurgiif there's anything I can help with, shoot.
16:42.08brlcadcosurgi: no problems, I'm just (slowly) debugging libtool while context-switching with 4 other things
16:42.14brlcadmaking progress little by little though :)
16:42.23cosurgisure, I'm very grateful
16:43.12cosurgimaking my mind on how great a CAD GUI inside yade would be :) Of course first written as a separate app, but easily embeddable inside yade.
16:43.37brlcadheh
16:49.42*** join/#brlcad rcampos (n=rafaelca@micro85.comp.ufscar.br)
16:52.28brlcadhello rcampos
16:53.19rcamposHi there.
17:05.26*** join/#brlcad rcampos (n=rafaelca@200.18.97.86)
17:05.36rcamposhi there.
17:06.25brlcadheh, hello again
17:06.56brlcadrcampos: did you have a question, or just stopping by to check out the hot babes? :)
17:07.27alex_jonibrlcad: forgot rendered in the description :)
17:08.04rcamposI do have a question... just ran into some tech problems
17:08.09rcamposoops... again...
17:08.24rcamposvery sorry! i'll try reconnecting
17:09.40brlcadalex_joni: what description?
17:11.54alex_jonihot babes..
17:15.38*** join/#brlcad rcampos (n=rafaelca@200.18.97.102)
17:16.32rcamposhere i am again. everything should be fine this time.
17:17.32cosurgibrlcad: do you have dimiensioning lines in brlcad?
17:18.28brlcadnope
17:19.16brlcadnothing fundamentally limiting there, though -- mostly just the user interface
17:20.07cosurgibrlcad: what's the difficulty in adding them, say.. on scale 0..10 ?
17:20.10*** join/#brlcad micges (n=michu@public-gprs39842.centertel.pl)
17:20.27brlcadit really depends how and where they are added
17:20.46*** part/#brlcad micges (n=michu@public-gprs39842.centertel.pl)
17:21.23brlcadalso referring to dimensions on a 2D or 3D view (or both)?
17:21.28cosurgion which side they should be added: brlcad, or GUI frontend (unlikely for me?)
17:22.57brlcadwell, on the gui if you just want them as a visual means for inputting values .. that's almost entirely just a UI detail to pull out lines, see the dimensions, type in some new values
17:23.08brlcadbut then to make them persist, you have to have some sort of annotation support
17:23.24brlcad(hence the gsoc item for annotations) .. and that goes into the backend with the geometry
17:24.01brlcadon the backend, I think adding those would actually be pretty darn easy
17:24.01cosurgiboth, I think. A dimension line should have at least: two points and a Local Coordinate System. The dimension line goes along X axis of local coordinate system from point A to point B. It also can have: a third point - the dimension line goes through this point. And other less important attributes - like font, font size, etc.
17:24.27brlcadprobably a couple weeks at best to add the support on the backend as it's *really* similar to the way sketches are implemented now
17:25.03cosurgiok, so good to hear this.
17:25.42brlcadthe UI side of things would be more work to do anything more than display them -- add a couple more weeks if you wanted to click and drag on them, type in values
17:26.10brlcadthat is really where it's probably better to just plan for it in the new UI
17:26.55cosurgiok. Don't worry about UI now :-) I'm asking to make sure that there's place for them inside brlcad.
17:27.19brlcadyeah
17:27.31brlcadtechnically you can do it now through a really horrible hack
17:28.04cosurgiI cannot tell how far I will go (impossible) with frontend. But my motivation is to have an AutoCAD replacement on linux. So my focus is mostly on replicating AutoCAD's interface.
17:28.40brlcadone of the users actually implemented annotations as 3D geometry, completely tcl scripted hack but end result was pretty impressive
17:28.54cosurgiok :)
17:29.07brlcadit would auto-label all objects being displayed
17:29.32cosurgiAlso I don't know how slow I can be due to my time limitations. If anyone springs up in GSoC to do that - it would be great for me :)
17:29.34brlcadthe way he did it though is the sort that makes you snort your milk if you're not expecting it :)
17:29.46cosurgiheheh :)
17:30.17brlcadhe actually creates the fonts as 3D geometry, positioning them in the scene according to the given view
17:30.20*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669639.dsl.bell.ca)
17:30.43brlcadso you have all these tiny little polygons spelling out names and labels with lines leading from the labels to the objects
17:30.46brlcadpretty funny
17:30.53cosurgiI see :-)
17:31.16brlcadall done as an mged tcl procedure too ... which is just bizzare :)
17:32.02brlcadno worries about the time, i'm a very patient guy -- some things in open source happen *very* slowly :)
17:33.19rcamposthis is a great window for my question. i'm interested in proposing the GI renderer development for the GSoC, but I'm not that confident about the timeframe.
17:33.59rcamposPath tracing is quite tricky, so is a student expected to deliver it finished by the end of the term?
17:36.19brlcadrcampos: so long as the proposal is detailed in what you're proposing and what you see the deliverables as being, we're completely satisfied
17:37.28brlcadwhether you can finish what you propose is based on your background and experience -- so you could conceivably be a first year student with minimal programming experience, so the timeline should naturally reflect that in how far they expect to get
17:38.18brlcadthe focus is more on attracting new long-term developers, so there's really no problem if you don't "finish", but a really strong desire that you keep working on it and expand your interests into other parts of brl-cad development
17:39.50brlcadso yeah, don't promise the impossible, be conservative .. and show that you're interested in becoming a long-term contributor ;)
17:41.04rcamposI see. I'm very interested in rendering, so working with brl-cad in the long-run, specifically on the librt library and the GI module to be added would be great.
17:42.39brlcadsounds great to me too ;)
17:42.57brlcadI've wanted to implement that myself for years
17:43.16rcamposthis might sound naive, but there are options in developing a GI renderer, such as the most adequate algorithm (e.g. metro or radiosity).
17:43.37rcamposShould major choices be made prior to project submission?
17:44.05``Erikcould be part of the proposal, would help focus the timeline
17:44.05brlcadyeah, just to show competency, you need to pick one or the other since they're such different approaches
17:44.42brlcadradiosity usually performs better, but is usually much harder to implement (especially with implicit geometry)
17:44.56``Erikhides the path tracer already in there O.o O:-)
17:45.14brlcadMLT is basically bidirectional path-tracing, a much simpler algorithm, generates gorgeous picutres, but run-times are really long
17:45.45rcamposMaybe some research on performance tuning the MLT.
17:46.04brlcad``Erik: if it were easy to use, a librt one wouldn't have made the list ;)
17:46.16brlcadif it didn't require facetization, a librt one wouldn't have made the list
17:46.32``Eriktrue, that's an ugly requirement
17:47.00``Erikbut without a serious CSG optimizer...
17:47.22brlcadif someone can get one working with librt, and tie is hooked into librt for bots, then it could be a reasonable balance
17:48.15brlcadit's not like rise was actually fast .. and at the order it took, 2-10x longer really doesn't matter --  you're still going distributed and running for days, so throw 2-10x hardware at it
17:48.27``Erikbut so many models are built in a fashion that "seems right" to a modeler who doesn't know the actual cost when it comes to intersecting and weaving
17:50.54rcamposthe CSG optimizer seems to be more important at the moment than the GI renderer. am i wrong?
17:51.09brlcadrcampos: nah, they're both "important"
17:51.14``Erikthey're just different
17:51.25``Erikmake it fast or make it pretty...
17:51.42brlcadyou really need to know your stuff to work on the CSG optimizer though -- that's already highly tuned code, and changes would have to be very careful
17:52.02brlcadpropose both ;)
17:52.10brlcadjust not in the same proposal
17:52.24rcamposhum, i'm not sure. not really familiar with CSG. i am with RT, though.
17:52.28brlcadand only after doing your preferred first with detail
17:52.45brlcadcsg is easy to learn
17:52.58brlcadthe optimization algorithms for csg can be tricky though
17:53.07``Erikit's just the geometric version of boolean logic
17:53.09brlcadand optimized csg *code* can be even trickier
17:53.19``Erik"just" :D
17:53.28``Eriklike, academic "trivial"
17:54.06rcamposoh, i'm used to that!
17:54.47``Erikdangit, ucw seems to have been mostly abandoned :/ almost 2 years ago
17:55.32rcamposbrlcad: i'm very into RT, but my background supports me better on the GI front. only one well-done proposal. what do you suggest?
17:56.01cosurgibrlcad: is it possible to do .dxf export ?
17:56.16brlcadcosurgi: g-dxf
17:56.37cosurgioh, so it works right now? great! :)
17:56.41brlcadthat will polygonalize the model since dxf doesn't support implicits
17:57.11brlcadrcampos: i'm not sure what you're asking
17:57.48cosurgiyeah, I know. I asked because that would allow people to work in brlcad GUI frontend, then sell their drawings to people who use autocad.
17:57.54brlcadrcampos: only propose the csg optimization task if you think you could do something there -- all the items on the task list are rather important and would be great to have ..
17:58.14rcamposbrlcad: I really like the CSG optimizer idea, but I'm afraid it might be overwhelming.
17:59.06brlcadI could give you some references to research papers for it probably in a day or two to give you a better feel, or better yet just search for CSG optimization papers
17:59.24brlcadotherwise, focus on the GI submission first
17:59.46brlcadyou can always stub in an application for CSG and work on it or decide through next week
18:00.02brlcadthere's a week and a half to review and expand upon the submissions after the 31st
18:00.17brlcadbut you have to submit *something* by the 31st or you're cut out
18:00.42brlcadmentors will start reviewing and refining next week with the candidates
18:00.57rcamposbrlcad: i'll have a rather detailed proposal on GI by tomorrow evening - should I submit it and alter if needed, or put it up for comments beforehand?
18:01.15brlcadrcampos: either way works just fine
18:01.40brlcadif you want, you can share it to the devel mailing list to get more eyes on it beforehand
18:01.56rcamposgreat. i'll definitely do that :)
18:03.24brlcadsooner would definitely be better than later, if last year is any indication it's just going to get busier and busier until the deadline
18:04.41rcamposyes, and that's not good. i'll have it on the mailing list by tomorrow - it'll give me enough time to review.
18:04.59brlcadsounds like a plan
18:05.15brlcadwelcome to toss it up into a page on the wiki if you like
18:06.16rcamposanother great idea. is doing both redundant?! maybe having a link on the email to the list should suffice, then.
18:08.16brlcadnah, it's not redundant
18:08.27brlcadsome folks won't click a link, some will -- its up to you
18:08.48rcamposnoted!
18:09.36rcamposthanks a lot for the help so far :)
18:09.41``Erikbut if you attach a .doc or .ppt, we'll take turns smackin' ya :D
18:10.57rcamposhehe, i would'nt do that, rest assured!
18:22.37cosurgiwhoopps, my backup box just got oops
18:23.56cosurgibrlcad: did you get a message on screen, too? :)
18:28.55brlcadcosurgi: yup
18:31.47cosurgiIt's 7y old. I figured I still can use it for something. I've put into it raid5 3*500GB=1000GB and makes backups twice per day from cron with rsnapshot. I oopses when CPU overheats, so I'm uninstalling distcc from it, now :)
18:32.08cosurgis/I oopses/It oopses/
18:35.39``Erikhrm, I think my primary server at home is 9 years old
18:36.06``Erikneed to buy a fan for the 8 yr old one O.o
18:37.40cosurgiheh, I gave my box which would deserve such title, to my friend. (the debian dev I was talking about earlier). It's his primary server now and is is 9y old. Still kicks butt :)
18:38.27cosurgidual PIII, 600MHz
18:39.15``ErikI had a dual p133 with scsi long ago, screamed for compiling (sucked for raytracing)
18:41.34cosurgi:^)
18:43.14``Erikmake a nice coffee table, too
18:43.41yukonbobwaves in
18:44.26``Eriklooked like http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/labyrin/maniki/maniiki01/dsc0079.jpg but far more abused
18:49.17MinuteElectronmy home server is 98!
18:57.38``Erikfrom '98, or running 98? O.o :> *duck* *run*
18:58.40yukonbobor from 1910? (a difference engine?)
18:58.55brlcadhas fun showing the tcl guys why their regex imlementation sucks
18:59.17``Erikheh
18:59.17``Erikuhm
18:59.24yukonbobregex was just reworked w/ some help from postres, apparently
18:59.26brlcadinteresting little test pattern.. ((a{%d}){%d}){%d} ...
18:59.37yukonbob*postgres
18:59.45``ErikI saw a report where tcl's regex smoked perls a while back
19:00.08brlcadwith that little pattern, you end up blowing the stack quickly the way tcl implements it
19:00.16brlcador running out of memory
19:00.23yukonbobI wish there was an emitcon for my face for that comment, ``Erik
19:00.25``Erik(by pushing perl into a degredate case where it basically had to backtrack every single time)
19:00.57brlcadyukonbob: try this in your tclsh:  set i 40
19:00.59brlcadthen: regexp [subst ((a{$i}){$i}){$i}] x
19:01.02yukonbob``Erik: was this a single weird case, or a  common pattern
19:01.10brlcadit should dies somewhere between 20 and 40
19:01.33brlcadI thought that was pretty odd .. so I wrote a little test program
19:01.33yukonbobbrlcad: what version of tcl are you running?
19:01.42brlcad8.5 latest
19:01.45yukonbobnods
19:01.57``Erikit was a common case pushed to the extreme
19:02.00brlcadlike I said, this was debugging with the tcl guys just a lil while ago
19:02.05``Eriksomething like a 4k character pattern
19:02.13yukonbob``Erik: interesting -- I honestly wouldn't have expected that...
19:02.27``Erik'cept perl got too slow to wait for at 10 characters or something
19:02.33brlcadquite a drastic difference -- gnu's is an utter pig (takes minutes just to compile) but seems to not run out of memory here until somewhere 200+ -- bsd seems to just hit a hard-coded uchar limit but is nearly instant even at 255 -- tcl's dies around 36 here
19:02.59brlcadyou can see the diff between bsd's and gnu's right off the bat if you compile http://brlcad.org/tmp/regtest.c against both libs
19:03.02yukonbobtcl regex == Henry Spencer
19:03.25brlcadspencer did the old bsd one too
19:03.43brlcadso maybe it's just been broken since :)
19:03.48brlcads/broken/optimized/
19:04.06``Erikhttp://swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/regexp1.html
19:05.21``Erikof course, you always have the jwz quote to go along with that...
19:05.36brlcadthis must be a different sample pattern for  ((a{%d}){%d}){%d}
19:05.46brlcadbecause tcl and gnu both are epic fail
19:05.55``ErikSome people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use regular expressions." Now they have two problems.  --- jwz comp.lang.emacs
19:06.09brlcadtcl at least dies gracefully, gnu's starts to take down the machine and seems to inf loop
19:06.29brlcadbsd's doesn't seem to have any problem
19:06.43``Erikmebbe try an old tcl (like 8.0?) to see if tcl screwed up their fugly cases to a slight boost in trivial cases?
19:06.55``Erikup until 256 characters? :D
19:07.06brlcadinteresting that you can see a distinct difference between the bsd on mac os x and the bsd we ship (about 1sec to compile 256 with osx, about .1 sec with old bsd)
19:07.16brlcadit's not characters
19:07.18yukonbobcore-dumped on your test, br
19:07.22yukonbob*brlcad
19:07.55brlcadyukonbob: tclsh did?
19:07.55yukonbobyup
19:07.55yukonbob8.4.16
19:07.55brlcadheh, well at least 8.5 is better in that regard
19:08.12brlcadit should say "couldn't compile regular expression pattern: nfa has too many states"
19:08.22``Erikum, which "old bsd"? there're a couple fbsd 8 boxes floating around
19:08.34brlcadsrc/other/libregex
19:08.44``Eriktcl and bsd shouldn't be using nfa's
19:09.10``Erikshould be a big fugly dfa with a list of state pointers
19:09.20``Erikiirc
19:09.39``Eriktcl, anyways... I'm guessing about bsd
19:10.09brlcadlike he said, 8.5's regex was modified
19:10.13``Erikdoes the mac one want to work in unicode? or do you see a lot of system activity (microkernel abuse)
19:11.02brlcadwth are you talking about? :)  .. you've not compiled that regtest.c /me thinks
19:11.19``Erikno?
19:11.24brlcadit's nearly instant on bsd (both old and new) to compile the expression
19:11.47brlcadwe're talking about just compiling the expression, running it on nothing
19:12.08brlcadthe expression is very "brief", but expands nasty state-wise
19:12.18yukonbobmy 8.4 dies SIGSEGV SIG_DFL
19:12.35brlcade.g. try running this:  egrep '((a{255}){255}){255}'
19:12.46``Erikare you talking about the bsd impl on a mac, or the bsd impl on bsd?
19:12.49brlcadthat will use gnu's regex lib .. should run out of memory
19:13.05brlcadthey're not much different iirc
19:13.17brlcadbut was referring to on a mac and our old bsd impl
19:13.39``Erikah
19:13.51``Erikthought you were mixing os's, as well
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19:14.29``Erikhuh, that stopped at 4 gigs for me
19:14.46``Erikstill burning cpu, but not eating any more memory
19:14.51brlcadthere, just ran it on .bz too .. slow, but it completes to 255 with no problem before hitting the uchar limit
19:16.17brlcadi'm believe gnu's just get stuck in an inf loop, or it's just got some N^3'd time going on -- it's been compiling here for a half hour at 200
19:17.07brlcadto run the test, just gcc regtest.c && ./a.out 200
19:17.45jdolineris anyone here a possible mentor of a project on CSG evaluation of BREP objects.
19:17.53brlcadhugs jdoliner
19:18.05``Erik:o
19:18.32brlcadjdoliner: heh, yes -- there are several mentors here (and on the mailing list)
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19:18.52jdolinergreat
19:19.56brlcadwe do more communal mentoring, so just speak up -- you might have to hit up both irc and ml to get a response sometimes, but the mentor's role is mainly to make sure you're on track and for evaluating  you
19:20.10brlcadjdoliner: what's your background?
19:20.47jdolinerWell I'm presently a mathematics major at The University of Chicago
19:21.38jdolinerI've also had formal education in both Scheme and C at Uchicago
19:22.17jdolinerAnd I spent the summer working at Fermi Lab where I had to do some coding in Fortran on a simulation project
19:22.24yukonbobreads backtrace on #tcl
19:23.55jdolinerAlso I have experience in computer art so I've worked with both B-Rep and CSG before
19:24.32brlcadon a coding level or at an application level?
19:25.13``Eriklooks around
19:25.31``Erikyou can't escape us, brlcad, you're becoming surrounded by coders who like sexy curvy languages
19:26.13brlcadi was just going to say that I'll try not to hold the fortran and scheme against him :)
19:26.40jdolinerLargely on application level the closest I've gotten with them in coding is with Pov-ray
19:26.41``Erikeach has their benefit... scheme teaches you how to really program, and floortrash teaches you how to put up with bull
19:26.45``Erik*cough* O:-)
19:26.52brlcadj/k, I actually do like lisp, never really gotten into scheme .. just fails on a practical level for me
19:27.08brlcadmuch like how I like smalltalk, but not practical :)
19:27.18jdolineryeah the physicist are so outdated
19:27.30``ErikI d'no, depends on the impl, unfortunately :( gauche is a nice pragmatic scheme
19:27.50jdolinerI think when the program had originally been written Fortran was new
19:27.54``Erikhooks to gtk, opengl, various rdbms's, good unix extensions, etc
19:28.01brlcadjdoliner: hm, then how strong is your math background with respect to spline surfaces and manifold geometry? :-)
19:28.10brlcaddoing CSG of BREP is a bit tricky
19:28.27brlcadi mean it actually shouldn't be more than probably a few hundred lines of code.. but it's dense stuff to sort out
19:28.47``Erikclassroom scheme would like C without libraries or functions, so a lot of people have a lame view of the language
19:28.52``Erikwould be like
19:30.05``Erikshouldn've eaten today, is feelin' awful goofy
19:30.15brlcadjdoliner: see if you can do some searches for CSG evaluation of BREP papers -- that really is a hot topic feature, but there's no sugar coating that it's trivial -- you'll need to instill some confidence that you can implement a given algorithm for doing the coding needed
19:30.56brlcadignores the language banter :P
19:30.56jdolinerK
19:32.35``Erikbrlcad: just a slew of nurbs in a complex csg (no other primitives), and evaluate it to the minimal 'union only' patch set?
19:32.51brlcadyes
19:33.22brlcadbasically performing splinesurface-on-splinesurface trimmings per the csg operations
19:33.51brlcadhell, I bet we actually already implement a full-blown algorithm that would work just fine in the nmg sources
19:33.55brlcadbut it's in the nmg sources...
19:34.47``Erik'would work just fine', what, after throwing it all away and starting over? :D
19:35.07brlcadjdoliner: another very similar but a hell of a lot more straight-forward is to propose implementing/updating all our existing primitives with a describe-me-as-a-brep function
19:35.44brlcadwe have about 30 primitives that you'd have to work on, about a third of those are already "done" but using the wrong data structures
19:35.47``Erikbot, dsp, and metaball might be challenging for that one
19:36.11brlcadpoint-sample, turn into patches
19:36.32brlcadbot and dsp should be trivial
19:36.46brlcadeach bot face is a brep face
19:36.53brlcadit already *is* in brep form
19:37.32``Erikbut what it's supposed to be smoothed? like a tesselated sphere.... 1k nurbs when it should be 4?
19:38.01brlcadthe meatball would be a little more tricky
19:38.04``Erik<-- was thinking dsp and bot would need curve fitting
19:38.16brlcadno, bot is what it is -- those are the faces
19:38.52brlcaddsp would probably be five faces for the sides and bottom, and then at least one if not many sub-pieces for the surface
19:39.17brlcaddsp has two modes, one is flat-faced -- those would be direct to N flat-faces brep faces
19:39.41brlcadthe smoothed version, though, would be harder -- "should" come across as just one patch with a helluva lot of control points
19:40.19``Erikheh, yay for funny stuff on mailing lists
19:40.20brlcadundoubtedly have to localize, though, as you can have discontinuities in the dsp (zero'd regions)
19:40.24``Erik> apache. Well tested, lots of features.
19:40.24``Erikwell, tested... :)
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20:06.22brlcadkicks CIA-33
20:06.23CIA-33ow
20:09.53``Erikannoying, the tclConfig.sh installed in the latest fbsd is broken :/
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20:38.46jgaybrlcad when you get a chance, tell me what you think about http://endsoftpatents.org
20:46.12``Erikheh, I originally read that as "ends of patents" O.o
21:32.35``Erikwanders home, later kids
22:05.14brlcadjgay: in what regard?
22:05.33brlcadit reads like a political rant, but that's because it is
22:05.53brlcadI've seen that site before iirc, pretty sure
22:15.20louipchehe do you think if brl-cad became a real competitor that some companies out there would try suing?
22:15.22jgaybrlcad, cool. It's pretty new. It's supposed to be informative, kind of boring, and simple.
22:17.39jgaybrlcad, I didn't know if anybody in this project had a position on software patents. I am helping to write an amicus brief for an important court case (In re Bilski). There are a lot of patents on CAD and related software. You are likely violating dozens if not hundreds of software patents.
22:17.40brlcadlouipc: not likely
22:18.35brlcadoh, it's entirely possible, but then if they were to sue, they'd be suing uncle sam .. and uncle sam gets to decide if you're allowed to sue
22:18.52louipcyep that's what I was thinking
22:18.59jgaybrlcad - not so. More likely they'd sue a company using the software or selling it inside of a distribution.
22:19.16louipcthat might be precedent setting though
22:19.52jgayremember software has both copyright and patents, but they are very different laws with very different requirements
22:20.12jgayunder copyright law you are safe, under patent law, uncle sam may be safe, but others might not be.
22:20.51brlcadjgay: as for a position, I'm fairly against software patents but they frankly aren't a day-to-day concern (or an issue that has *ever* really come up with major significance) .. at least to date of course
22:20.51jgaye.g., TrendMicro is being sued for how they are using ClamAV, a free software package that they did not develop.
22:20.55louipcdepending on what a judge says
22:21.42jgaybrlcad, right, you may not be personally effected, but others in the free software community (and generally programming community) are very much effected on a day to day basis.
22:22.28brlcadthe legal concerns on our end tend to be much more heavily weighted towards issues of information security , the license terms, issues with the GPL, classification levels, FOUO data, and disclosure
22:23.16jgaybrlcad, of course, I understand that. With software patents, however, you needn't ever know of the patents or technology you infringe upon to be found infringing upon the patents.
22:23.30brlcadi know others are affected, just following the headlines it's clear a lot of the problems brewing
22:24.26yukonbobBRL-CAD to plaintif -- let me introduce my legal team -- m1 bradley, blackhawk, and stryker.
22:26.15jgayso, you guys are safe, you can't infringe upon patents, because the government asks you to develop brl-cad
22:26.39jgayhowever, the government could be asked to pay damages or costs even when it claims eminent domain over the patents.
22:27.43brlcaddo patents have to defend against prior art as well?
22:27.49brlcad(software patents)
22:27.54jgaymy question really wasn't about whether or not you guys are personally effected, but whether or not anybody would be interested in signing onto the amicus brief.
22:28.52jgaybrlcad, yes. But, there are about 70 software patents granted per day.
22:29.07brlcadnods
22:29.36jgaySo, they are relatively safe because of their numbers. To look into prior art for even a fraction of those is a daunting task.
22:30.07louipcthere are some pretty ridiculous patents and any judge with half a brain should just throw them out
22:30.35jgaylouipc, I recommend reading over endsoftpatents.org -- we have done a good job of explaining a whole lot about software patents.
22:31.12jgayAnyhow, I was trying to an extend an offer that if anybody was interested in taking a stance against software patents, and hopes to see them eliminated, the time would be now.
22:31.29brlcadjgay: so you are involved directly with endsoftpatents.org
22:31.41jgayI didn't mean to flood the channel or force it down y'alls throats :-)
22:32.15brlcadI gathered that you weren't gloria or ben
22:32.16jgaybrlcad, yes. I am the campaigns manager for the free software foundation. We helped launch the ESP campaign, which is a coalition effort.
22:32.26brlcadgot it
22:32.53jgayIt's not limited to free software or user freedom, so it's not an in house thing. But, when it comes to doing my part for the free software community, or campaigning like activities, I step up to the plate.
22:33.22brlcadquite noble of you
22:33.30brlcadthat work takes a lot of time and effort
22:33.38brlcadand is rarely really appreciated directly
22:34.01brlcad(except by others that have also stepped up to the plate)
22:34.06jgaythanks -- I enjoy staying in the shadows most of the time :-)
22:35.17louipcyou guys are lobbying for a patent reform bill?
22:36.42jgaylouipc, I don't think we are lobbying, but we are recommending that congress consider reforming the patent system through legislation.
22:37.02louipcoh
22:37.36jgaylouipc, 501(c)3 organizations are allowed to encourage bills to be passed and influence legislation, but they are not allowed to help political campaigns or put more than some small percentage of their budget each year toward efforts that are considered lobbying.
22:38.42jgayI think you might also have to justify such actions as being directly related to your mission. Clearly something that we consider to threaten the creation and adoption of free software directly threatens our mission.
22:38.49louipcah that second part sucks
22:39.23louipcso you have to make a profit corporation to be allowed to lobby agressively hah
22:39.39jgayno, I think it's 501(c)4
22:40.12jgaySo, you don't get a tax break, but you can qualify for grants.
22:41.25brlcadjgay: has anyone worked on tracking down the various "patent whore" clearing house companies -- or is that akin to chasing down the storm botnet?
22:41.54brlcadto identify the list of companies that abuse the system the worse that file for the intention of extorting
22:42.05brlcads/worse/worst/
22:42.10jgaybrlcad, it's just not worth it -- I mean, if in the legal community you are known as a troll -- how can it get any worse?
22:42.45jgaySo, IBM & Microsoft hold a tremendous number of patents
22:43.13jgayBut, some of the worst patent holders are law companies that exist for the sole purpose of suing people for patent infringement.
22:43.28brlcadright, it's the latter I'm referring to
22:43.40brlcadcalls them "patent whores"
22:43.43jgayThey collect software patents and sue big companies at critical times. In business it's referred to as "the patent tax," that you expect to pay for being big.
22:44.07brlcadbecause it's cheaper to pay than to fight
22:44.21jgayRight, and because there is a good chance you'll lose.
22:44.33jgayI mean, most everybody is infringing software patents.
22:44.46jgayOur list of people on the site are companies like the green bay packers, MLB.com, etc.
22:45.34jgayYou don't have to develop software, you just have to use it to make money, or design a web site to work a certian way, etc.
22:50.08louipcyeah that's pretty dumb
22:55.30starseekerrather doubts the patent mess will get straightened out anytime soon - the money and financial incentive to the legal establishment is lined up behind making it more difficult to do anything legally, not less...
22:56.07louipcdamned lawyers
22:57.09starseekerwonders how many examples in human history there are of legal establishments working to make themselves less of a nuisance
22:58.02starseekerAh, well.
23:00.45starseekerjgay:  Out of curiosity, are there websites that attempt to make a concrete case FOR software patents?
23:00.55jgaystarseeker -- not that I know of.
23:01.54jgaystarseeker I've actually tried to find some pro-software patent arguments that were based on facts ... but the only ones I could find rae based on generalization, like, "Patents are important for innovation."
23:02.18jgayAll of the business case studies I've read have not found any link between innovation (even for a single case) and software patents.
23:02.45jgaybut, I'm not as well versed as some. So i don't claim to be a definitive source of all things software patents.
23:02.48starseekeralways comes back to that "promote the progress of science and useful arts" bit...
23:03.18starseekerIf we're going to stop people from doing constructive work, I'd like to be sure we are getting a better return in the end.
23:04.04starseekerwonders if anyone making laws thinks of it in that fashion any longer...
23:04.08jgaystarseeker - In re Bilski could be very important in helping to decide the fate of software patents. Remember, software is 1) the only thing that can have both a copyright and a patent, and 2) only started being granted in the mid-1980s.
23:05.37jgaystarseeker people don't read bills (readthebill.org), but a lot of us (sunlightfoundation.com,  www.leagueoftechvoters.org/, change-congress.org) are doing something to help improve government.
23:06.10jgay*granted patents
23:07.02jgaysorry, I wear multiple hats :-) I should leave the room. The purity of hacking and BRL-CAD is being tainted! :-)
23:07.17starseekernah, my fault
23:07.41jgayo well, if it ever bothers anybody let me know -- I don't like being "that guy."
23:07.49brlcadjgay: it's good discourse
23:08.31brlcadall for increased awareness
23:08.58jgaycool, well, on to more pressing matters. If I don't get home and make dinner right now my fiance will kill me!
23:09.00brlcadthough I'm also a champion of being responsive, not preventive .. the ones responding directly do this should be the ones being attacked (i.e. the big corporations that are being sued)
23:09.27jgaybrlcad, yeah, most of the people we have reached out to are companies that have or are being sued.
23:09.48jgayactually, I've spent two days being passed around coprporate switchboards trying to get connected to the well-isolated legal department
23:10.06brlcadthat's why I was wondering if having a list of the orgs could help .. formulate some sort of reverse class-action lawsuit
23:10.44jgaybrlcad, yeah, as a long term strategy something like that might make sense. But, this Bilski case is actually one of the most important cases we've had re: software patents in a very long time. It could be decisive.
23:11.49jgaySo, our amicus brief is important, because the ruling, and the exact wording of it, is very crucial to many parties, and could have a big impact on the state of software patents.
23:12.29brlcadwell, hopefully it goes well -- when is it filed?
23:12.41jgayOn the ninth
23:12.50jgayhopefully
23:18.54jgayok, goodnight all! must go make dinner :-)
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00:42.40brlcadhello hippieindamakin8
00:42.54brlcadstill no review on a submission yet, eh?
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00:53.28brlcadhello cad24
00:53.34cad24howdy
00:53.36brlcadwonders who that could be
00:53.44cad24wonders too
01:24.20hippieindamakin8hey sean
01:25.11hippieindamakin8i shall submit a proposal soon :(,, too much of academic load rt now.. the endsemester examinations are up in 20 days :( and project submissions
01:25.25hippieindamakin8when can i send u a proposal by the latest ?
01:25.31hippieindamakin8for a review
01:26.11brlcadwell gsoc hard deadline is on the timeline, I presume you know when that is
01:26.23hippieindamakin8ya
01:26.28hippieindamakin8march 31st
01:26.40brlcadotherwise, it's up to you
01:27.00brlcadjust the later, the harder it will be to properly review and iterate on the design
01:27.15hippieindamakin8i am going through librt right now .. and some presentations by john anderson on application development
01:27.22hippieindamakin8ya i know :(
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12:15.16CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r30568 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): updates to librtserver
13:36.41``Erikblargh.
13:37.54``Erikheh
13:38.56``Erikthe '68 prediction of 2008 on slashdot right now, one of the predictions was a 4 hour work day and 2 hours home study to keep up... with lots of free time... smacksnot comment is painfully true...
13:39.03``Erik"They got it almost spot on: 4 hours actual work; 2 hours slashdot; 2 hours talking; 2 hours walking around the office; 1 hour making coffee's; 3 hours replying to emails; 3 hours answering telephones; 1 hour break time; 2 hours travel time; 2 hours home study time; 2 hours sleep. Rinse-and-repeat."
13:40.50archivisthas reduce /. and increases irc
13:45.12clock_this amuses me http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2008/03/24/what-will-life-be-like-in-the-year-2008/?Qwd=./MechanixIllustrated/11-1968/forty_years_future&Qif=forty_years_future_2.jpg&Qiv=thumbs&Qis=XL
13:45.29clock_electrostatic precipitators clean the air in homes
13:45.51``Erik"ionic breeze"
13:46.06clock_I don't have electrostatic precipitators. I leave dust to accumulate on the floor and when it's annoying I pick up a broom and broom it together and throw into the dustbin
13:46.21clock_Ocassionaly, when I manage to cross the threshold of my laziness, I do the whole room with a vacuum cleaner
13:46.35``ErikI leave it on the floor until my wench find it annoying and she picks up the broom O.o
13:46.36``Erik:D
13:46.48archivistwhats a broom
13:46.48clock_wench == ?
13:46.52``Erikwoman
13:47.05archivistthe_wench is my bot in #mysql
13:47.10clock_archivist: a stick with bristles at the end that is used to sweep surfaces of particulate debris
13:47.32``Erikan old derogatory term
13:49.39archivist"serving wench" the girl that brings the beer
13:50.01``Erikif that's the definition of "serve" you want to use
13:50.03``ErikO:-)
13:51.40clock_``Erik: wench == wife?
13:52.04``Erikno, just a gf right now
13:52.17clock_What I find annoying on todays world is too civilized
13:52.52``ErikI find it more annoying at how incredibly incivilized it is, yet pretending it's highly civilized
13:52.55archivisthttp://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wench
13:54.55clock_the civilization takes fun away
13:55.12clock_Zurich is more civilized than Prague it has flat sidewalks like runways
13:55.20clock_When I ride skateboard it's dead boring all the way
13:55.46``Erikskateboards, such an uncivilized behavior *sigh*
13:55.47``Erik:D
13:55.49clock_Prague has cracks and I have to jump the cracks, they are always different size differently spaced so it never gets boring
13:56.16clock_In Zurich I see no nature in the street
13:56.40clock_In Prague I see grass between a lamp post and the sidewalk, in the crack of the sidewalk, in the crack between the sidewalk and the road
13:56.52clock_No grass -> depressive -> depression -> suicide -> bad
13:56.59clock_No wonder Swiss have such a high suicide rate
13:57.36clock_We are FUCKING DEPARTING FROM THE NATURE
13:59.33clock_I hope US don't have such obsessively compulsively overperfect streets
14:01.05clock_god bless dust cracks bugs and dirt
14:01.35clock_noone has ever died from a peeling plaster!
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14:19.41MinuteElectronclock_: if it got infected ;)
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15:50.09yukonbobmorning, cadheads
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17:52.34lifeethhello all
17:53.13lifeethI had some queries regarding one of the gsoc project ideas..."Web-based solid geometry model repository"
17:53.43brlcadhowdy lifeeth
17:54.03brlcadhang around and we can talk about it in a while .. have to run off for a little while
17:54.13lifeethok
17:54.19brlcad(back in like 30min I think)
17:54.42brlcadotherwise, maybe one of the other guys can get you set up with info
17:55.22lifeeth@brlcad....I have a little bit of work...I will also be back in 30 min
17:55.32lifeethThanks
17:59.38yukonbobshuts off lights, flips "open" sign to closed for next half hour
18:04.58``Erikkicks off his shoes and leans back
18:34.49louipccurses because his email isn't working.
18:35.55``Erikcurse? sounds more like a blessing
18:37.04yukonboblouipc: I can send my spam to the screen if you like, for that "Thank goodness I've got email" feeling.
18:37.40``Erik/dcc send louipc ~/Mail/Spam
18:39.14louipcyukonbob: as long as they come with the patches I want :D
18:40.08louipcI actually get no spam in my public email address
18:41.10louipcbut I get some spam in my personal mail because people don't know how to use the bcc field when forwarding to all their friends and shit
19:15.07lifeethhello again
19:15.15lifeethI had some queries regarding one of the gsoc project ideas..."Web-based solid geometry model repository"
19:15.15brlcadlifeeth: so did you have a particular question in mind about the task?  there's a lot of leeway in the design
19:16.47lifeethI have done some web development works before..
19:17.07lifeethBut I don't use brlcad...
19:17.53lifeethDo I need to have a strong familiarity with brlcad if I intend to work on this project
19:19.18brlcadnot really strong
19:19.44brlcadbasically the web interface can be seen like a wiki for 3D geometry models ..
19:20.10brlcadbut to manage that effectively, you really need integrated tools -- like if someone uploads a model, you want to be able to see what that things looks like
19:20.33brlcadso you need to generate some pictures (or integrate some sort of 3d viewing mechansim, but that's a fair bit more effort)
19:20.47brlcadwe have ways to generate pictures, so the web interface just runs the tool
19:20.57brlcadhave you ever looked at the backend to Gallery?
19:21.23lifeethNot the backend
19:21.25brlcadgallery might even serve a good starting point foundation itself since it has related data management models
19:21.35brlcadhave you used gallery?
19:21.36lifeethBut I am familiar with gallery
19:21.39brlcadokay
19:21.47brlcadwell like when you upload an image to gallyer
19:22.09brlcadit generates a set of resized images including the thumbnails
19:22.24brlcadit does that by kicking of gd or imagemagik back on the server
19:22.40lifeethI am familiar with how it does it
19:22.50brlcadthis task would involve doing something very similar where there would be renderers and geometry converters being called on the backend
19:23.26brlcadyou don't really need to know those tools in depth other than what's needed to use for a specific purpose on the stie
19:23.37lifeethOk.
19:23.39brlcadat least that was my basic concept for that task
19:23.48brlcadthere are other things that you could also do with that idea
19:24.41brlcadand it doesn't have to be a module, it could be all custom, could be ruby on rails, could be python, php, whatever .. the important aspect is something that will scale well and should be implemented cleanly/maintainably
19:24.41lifeethLike adding user comments perhaps?
19:25.34*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@217-162-110-3.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:26.01lifeethI am more towards using existing CMS's so that maintaining and extending the site in the future could be easy
19:26.01brlcadmaybe
19:26.15brlcadsure, that's why they were mentioned
19:26.27brlcadthat does then help with access controls, comment streams, etc
19:28.22lifeethI am a bit familiar with drupal
19:29.45lifeethAre there any other requirements for the project ?
19:30.56brlcadyou should define the requirements as you see them in your proposal, we can iterate on them via the comment/review proecess
19:31.23brlcadotherwise, not really, there's more than enough to do to hook in any CMS with the various tools and back-end content management
19:31.56brlcadgeometry files can be *huge* (hundreds of megs or more) or tiny (just a few bytes)
19:32.30brlcadit would be nice to be able to categorize your models with tags/groupings when they are uploaded (e.g. via keywords)
19:33.15lifeethi think that part can be managed ,
19:33.41archivistweb 3d viewing mechansim is a nice idea
19:34.24lifeethA  folksonomy would also be nice on the page
19:35.33lifeethThe  3d viewing mechanism  might require the use of flash or java which might not be a pleasant experience for some users
19:36.32brlcadyeah, you'd have to make that either painless or otherwise have good detection so that it could fall back to images if not supported
19:36.40archivistthere are a few systems about
19:36.53archivistmost windows only
19:36.58brlcadotherwise, there are some *really* slick 3D viewers out there, some java some flash, some x3d/vrml plugins, etc
19:37.15brlcade.g. http://www.javaview.de/demo/PaViewModels.html
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19:40.37lifeethThere are also a couple of java script based ones
19:42.07lifeethI think I have a fair idea of what all are to be done for the project..
19:42.13lifeethThanks for the help
19:42.41brlcadyeah, several options
19:44.02brlcadproposing implementing one is another possibility too, e.g. getting mged working as an embedded backend using RoR and/or ajax techniques to manipulate the display
19:44.59``Erikbut then we'd need to call it TEW POINT OHHHH
19:46.22lifeethBut then the server needs to be powerful enough if the files are huge
19:48.31brlcadlifeeth: possibly, though the server assets could be throttled too (use work and user queues)
19:50.46lifeethI meant rendering with mged as a back-end for each user -- If we plan to use it for 3D viewing
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19:52.39lifeethi dont think the statement was clear...
19:53.27lifeethI mean if we render upon each user request to rotate
19:53.56brlcadyou'd have one mged instance, or a pool of them that stay running -- users visit a page and would attach
19:54.01brlcadmged is very lightweight
19:54.20brlcador at least can be compiled down to be very lightweight
19:55.27lifeethBut if some one wanted to do something nasty...They can upload a file that takes time to render and run a DoS
19:58.08lifeethI will analyze the entire requirement and get back to the channel
19:58.26lifeethThanks for the help
20:00.04brlcadno problem
20:00.22brlcadfeel free to post your idea to the wiki as well when you post your submission
20:00.49lifeethSure..
20:01.05brlcadfor us, it will mostly boil down to the quality of the applications themselves, and the candidates interest in long-term ideas (continuing past gsoc)
20:01.29brlcadthere's a lot of great stuff to work on, just a matter of getting excited about an idea
20:01.34brlcadand running with it
20:03.29cosurgibrlcad: if you say that this libtool problem on debian is unfixable, or you have no time for that, I'll install libtool from upstream. I think I'll do it circa before saturday.
20:06.20cosurgineeds to do some stuff for yade, quickly.
20:08.19brlcadcosurgi: still working on it, just a lot of thrashing :)
20:08.34brlcadsince this is submission week, it's a bit hectic :)
20:08.56``Erikplus 8 zillion other things to pull attention
20:09.09brlcadyeah
20:11.29``Erikahhhhhhhhhh HA
20:11.43``Erik<-- shakes fist vehemently at debian for a minute or 12
20:14.23cosurgibrlcad: understood. Thanks :)
20:14.44louipcis it possible to define 'views' in a .g file?
20:16.58``Erikno, but mged can save seperate view files
20:17.07louipcmaybe a modeller could define certain views: top, isometric, cutaway, etc then the web upload client would render a certain number of those or allow the user to select some and that should give a nice preview of the contents with just static images
20:18.40brlcadlouipc: there are a the default views, and for a given mged session you can save views in the view ring
20:19.06louipcmaybe you can use that somehow
20:19.18brlcadfor arbitrary views, you can run saveview/loadview to save/restore views (they're stored as external ray-trace script files that will render that view)
20:19.26*** join/#brlcad Axman6_ (n=Axman6@210-9-137-47.netspeed.com.au)
20:19.54brlcadi just made a mod yesterday that lets you override the renderer used in the saveview (among other options)
20:22.23*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
20:26.45``Erikheh, neat  http://bc.tech.coop/blog/images/xo-plt.jpg
20:38.59*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
20:40.58cosurgibrlcad: is the "MGED User Commands" in Appendix A of http://brlcad.org/w/images/c/cf/Introduction_to_MGED.pdf a complete reference? Or there are some commands left out?
20:42.22cosurgiwants to find out how to do simple 2D drawfting (lines, polylines, arcs, etc)
20:43.06``ErikBRL-CAD is not a 2d drafting package... if you have a 3d representation, you can use 'rtedge', or if you like pain, you can try using the 'sketch' primitive :)
20:44.02cosurgi``Erik: I know it's not 2d, and I'm looking for this stuff only becasue it's missing.
20:44.46cosurgihm, does such reasoning make sense?
20:45.34``ErikI understand what you're saying, but it's a large domain and the software was tuned to it's niche, not that one
20:46.30``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/w/images/4/44/Industry_Diagram.pdf  if you haven't already seen it :)
20:50.58brlcadcosurgi: the support I spoke to is almost entirely encapsulated in the sketch primitive
20:52.14cosurgibrlcad: ok. in Introduction_to_MGED.pdf I've fouind this: "There are additional shapes available in MGED that are not listed in the
20:52.24cosurgipreceding table: ...... sketch.."
20:52.40cosurgiwhere can I find some info about sketch?
20:52.43``Erikimagines a seperate drafting gui could be built that used the underlying libwdb/librt shtuff to make sketch laden .g files, but would make the file useless for CAE
20:54.08brlcadcosurgi: i'm not sure how well documented sketches are
20:54.09cosurgishould learn what is libwdb/librt
20:54.34brlcadthere is a basic sketch editor in mged that exposes all of the basic types through a horrid button interface
20:54.49cosurgiok.
20:55.08brlcadmake sk.s sketch
20:55.10brlcade sk.s
20:55.13brlcadsed sk.s
20:55.19brlcadthat will kick off the editor
20:55.41brlcadthere's also a command-line input iirc, run "in"
20:55.42``Erikimagines it's about as fun as LaTeX "picture" mode :D
20:56.12brlcadlibwdb is the "write-only geometry database library"
20:56.59brlcadlibrt is the "ray-trace library" which is basically the core of the geometry engine, handles most of the representation types (in the g_*.c files)
20:57.06cosurgi``Erik: heh, I was using that picture mode for diagrams in my PhD, http://janek.kozicki.pl/phdthesis/kozicki_2007_PhD.pdf
20:57.42``Erikguesses he wont' be able to read it
20:57.43``Erik:D
20:58.08cosurgithanks for explanations :)
20:58.22cosurgibrlcad:  the "make sk.s sketch" should be issued inside mged, right?
20:58.27brlcadright
20:58.33brlcadsk.s can be whatever
20:58.50brlcadvia the gui, you can Edit -> Sketch iirc
20:59.02cosurgiok. I didn't compile it, yet :-)
20:59.10brlcadah, right ;)
20:59.32brlcadwill be back on that later today
20:59.32cosurgibut I have irclog, and will go back to this point, and try it :)
20:59.42``Erikhttp://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=1467
20:59.52cosurgibrlcad: don't feel pressed. We have time :)
21:00.26brlcadahh, awesome.. fracture models
21:00.57brlcadwas on a big fracture model kick a few years back.. so want to implement support for that in brl-cad
21:02.07``Erikweird, a thesis for a polish uni in english O.o but neat stuff, and I can read it :D thanks for the link
21:02.49cosurgiheh. I keep telling everyone around to write their theses in english, because nobody understands polish these days.
21:07.21cosurgibrlcad: if it was a question (the "so want to implement support for that in brl-cad") - then, honestly, I'm more interested in AutoCAD-like GUI for brl-cad than in fracture support in brl-cad :)
21:10.15brlcadcosurgi: completely understand :)
21:10.23brlcadwants a better gui more too
21:12.07cosurgithere is no text primitive, right?
21:12.37cosurgi(because currently the text was done as 3D shapes by some guy)
21:13.44``Eriksometimes its' done with 3d geometry, sometimes with sketch, I don't believe most models even bother with text (outside of the programatically accessable path names and region id's)
21:17.30yukonbobbets most models don't use text because it's not an option :)
21:18.23archivista 2d from a model is useless wthout words
21:19.09``Erikmost models were specifically built to use 3 pieces of software, none of which have any use of embedded text (the text woudl just get in the way)
21:23.32cosurgiso for annotations and dimension lines brl-cad will need to add a text primitive. Storing this (drawing) data on the side of GUI is not a good idea.
21:23.47yukonbobwould love to see text; possibly both of something like POVRay uses (text as an object), and perhaps something that's not in the model at all, but could optionally display, as an attribute of an item in the model...
21:24.29cosurgiok, sorry, replace "text primitive" with whatever, attirbute, or sth else.
21:24.51``Erikwe have attributes, they have no graphical representation
21:24.55cosurgianything that will work for me, and will be done in a clean way inside brl-cad :-)
21:24.59*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548758AE.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:25.31``Erikbut you can add, query, edit, and delete them in mged
21:26.07*** join/#brlcad ewilhelm (n=ewilhelm@71.111.48.138)
21:28.13cosurgi``Erik: so maybe just adding graphical representation info to them would be enough? (eg. font size, is facing the camera or is fixed to some coordinate system, anchor coordinates)
21:28.38``Erikwhat about font type?
21:29.06``Erikand what if the machine doesn't have that font available? do fonts have to be carried inside of the .g, like PDF does?
21:29.31cosurgicould be. But for start I'd just deal with simple .shx (vector) fonts.
21:29.48cosurgiI think that GUI provides font.
21:29.56``Eriksomeone here was drawing fonts on the display, he ended up making each character out of (bunches) of triangles, ugly stuff
21:30.11``ErikTK provides some fonts, yeah
21:30.26cosurgito make things simple - solve this problem by ignoring it.
21:30.36cosurgilater could be improved. But not now.
21:30.53cosurgiOpenGL has fonts too.
21:30.57``Erikaight, happy hacking on that :D
21:31.02``Erikogl has no native fonts
21:31.19``Erikseveral extra packages exist to draw fonts using ogl, but ogl itself has no concept of that
21:31.46cosurgisorry, it's in glut, the glutBitmapCharacter
21:31.47``ErikGLUT has the text stroke thingy, um, what's his name did that one that converts a set of X glyphs into a texture to draw
21:32.14``Erikhas written his own X font to ogl texture converters as well
21:32.56``Erikand a gimp thingy to generate a cell managed image of a font, fun stuff
21:33.30``Erikshould go on haitus and do game coding again so he can enjoy computers once more O.o :D
21:35.41cosurgiok. time to sleep for me. goodnight
21:35.46``Eriknight, dude
21:53.28louipchmm it's funny to read someone that complains that a 1.6GHz cpu + 2G RAM is slow
21:53.45``Erikdual 1.6ghz
21:54.00*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@217-162-110-3.dclient.hispeed.ch)
21:54.08louipcdual! shikes
21:54.24alex_joniit ain't no 16-cores machine
21:54.50``Erikkicks his slow-assed 8 core 3ghz 16GB machine
21:55.35archivistcuddles his dual PII 200mhz
21:55.37louipcyeah I saw some ads for 8cores now
21:55.54``Erikactually
21:56.09``Erikkicks firefox for being brainfuck slow on a smoking 8x3ghz 16GB machine
21:56.47archivistfirefox is just slow (broken internal methods)
21:56.49hippieindamakin8woah naice machini man
21:57.00hippieindamakin8hey all
21:57.02louipcfirefox is written in javascript hah
21:57.21louipchi hippieindamakin8
21:57.21archivistslowscript
22:01.20``Erikwanders home
22:13.48hippieindamakin8can somebody tell me where is the jbrlcad module.. sean are u back ?
22:15.09louipchttps://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/jbrlcad/trunk/
22:16.39louipcI don't think that has been distributed as tarballs
22:17.31hippieindamakin8ohk
22:17.35hippieindamakin8tx :)
23:03.04*** join/#brlcad nmh_2Grajw (n=nmh@gw.nomh.org)
23:28.52brlcadyup
23:28.56brlcadthx louipc
23:29.05brlcadhello nmh_2Grajw
23:32.41CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r30569 10/brlcad/trunk/include/rtserver.h: Added a few more declarations
23:36.18*** part/#brlcad ewilhelm (n=ewilhelm@71.111.48.138)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080327

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080327

00:01.37*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
00:02.05nmh_2Grajwoh, hi
00:06.47*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1178014867.dsl.bell.ca)
00:23.33brlcadnmh_2Grajw: have a particular question, just lurking? :)
00:24.05nmh_2Grajwbrlcad: if it is not a problem, both :)
00:24.15brlcadnot a problem in the least
00:31.38*** join/#brlcad Daytona (n=jra@c-68-55-36-65.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
00:51.54CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30570 10/brlcad/trunk/include/rtserver.h: remove duplicate decls, sort lines
00:52.31louipcbrlcad: no problemo
00:57.38nmh_2Grajwhmm.. I am trying to export a single shape database to ascii, but I can't seem to find the file.  Is there anything special I should know about this?
00:59.15Daytonathe mged export asks for a file name, is that how you did it?
01:00.21nmh_2GrajwDaytona: yeah (the menu and dialog box).  I tried "test.asc" , "/tmp/test.asc" and others
01:01.28Daytonaanother way to do it is from the command line: g2asc file.g file.asc
01:03.33nmh_2GrajwDaytona: hmm, now I feel dumb.  I tried g2asc and (thought it didn't work)  I just went to doublecheck and I have test.asc sitting right there in the directory.  
01:04.54DaytonaI just tried saving from mged and it worked for me. The asc file appeared in thwe same directory where I started mged
01:05.42nmh_2GrajwDaytona: yeah, that is what I see now.  Thanks!
01:05.52Daytonayou're welcome
01:07.57nmh_2Grajwcontinuing with the easy stuff - when I click the mouse button in the graphics window, the view zooms out - changing stuff in the mouse behavior menu doesn't change this.  Is there an easy way for me to fix this?
01:10.30CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30571 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: dbconcat verified, seems to work like a charm with default, -s, -p with or without affix
01:10.52Daytonathe settings->Mouse Behavior menu mostly applies to middle button clicks
01:13.39DaytonaIn fact, I think it only applies to middle button
01:14.27nmh_2GrajwDaytona: I guess I will just be careful, since I only have one mouse button.
01:15.12DaytonaYes, the interface is designed for a 3 button mouse
01:15.27brlcadheya Daytona
01:15.45Daytonayo
01:16.16brlcadnmh_2Grajw: the mouse bindings as they are are called the "shift grips", you can get different behaviors depending on whether you're clicking with various modifiers pressed as well
01:17.02DaytonaYes, perhaps brlcad can provide advice for users with a one button mouse?
01:17.05brlcadI presume you're on a mac -- if you cmd-click, it should emulate the same event as a left-click
01:17.26brlcadlikewise, option-click will give you middle-mouse
01:17.51DaytonaI knew brlcad would know about those macs
01:17.55brlcad(cmd == the command key, i.e. the key with the apple on it)
01:18.10brlcadheh
01:19.21nmh_2Grajwneato (getting something useful out of the mouse)
01:19.30brlcadshift-control-click will give you dynamic zoom, shift-click will pan, ctrl-option-click will rotate
01:20.34brlcadcontrol-option-click is probably what you're used to, if anything
01:21.02nmh_2Grajwyes, control-option-click == click, it seems
01:22.00brlcadcontrol-option-click(and hold depressed while moving the cursor)
01:23.57brlcadah, sorry, made that more complicated -- it's the same as just control-click(keep depressed and move cursor)
01:32.43nmh_2Grajwooc, how important is white space in the ascii database files? (does each put need to be on a single line, or could I have each vertex on its own line?)
01:33.32DaytonaThe ascii file is just a Tcl script, so it follows the same syntax
01:35.49Daytonayou can extend to another line by escaping the newline
01:36.41nmh_2Grajwahh, good to know (both the Tcl and the newline)
01:58.40nmh_2GrajwI am going to go off and poke at this some more, thank for the help!
01:59.11brlcadnmh_2Grajw: sounds good, drop by any time
02:02.55*** part/#brlcad nmh_2Grajw (n=nmh@gw.nomh.org)
03:21.24*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (i=127@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu)
03:55.45pacman87after the source svn and compiling (25 minutes later), the last several lines are errors
03:55.56pacman87*getting the source
03:57.05brlcadhey pacman87
03:57.12brlcadpacman87: which os?
03:57.16pacman87slackware 12
03:57.29brlcadhm, haven't seen that in a long while -- what's the error?
03:57.35brlcad~pastebin
03:57.36ibot[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste
03:57.49brlcader, paste.bzflag.bz
03:58.01pacman87http://pastebin.com/m4dfb88ac
04:01.34brlcadneed more than that
04:01.43brlcadlines preceeding
04:01.46pacman87how far back?
04:01.52brlcadto the compile line
04:01.56brlcadgcc
04:02.03pacman87i ran make
04:02.22brlcadyeah, but if you look up the preceeding lines, one of them mentions gcc
04:02.30brlcadfrom there forward
04:02.32pacman87if gcc...
04:03.23pacman87http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m8c1030c
04:04.01brlcadahh
04:04.05brlcadwhat was your configure line?
04:04.19brlcadlooks like it auto-detected a system tcl
04:04.25pacman87./configure --enable-optimized
04:04.31brlcadbut not a system incrTcl
04:04.44brlcad8.4 is incompatible with our incrTcl
04:04.56brlcadmake that ./configure --enable-optimized --enable-aa
04:05.00brlcader, --enable-all
04:05.26pacman87does --enable-optimized incease compile tim?
04:05.29pacman87time
04:07.01brlcadheh
04:07.05brlcadno
04:07.09brlcadquite the contrary
04:07.31brlcader, sorry -- yes it does
04:07.47brlcadread that backwards :)
04:07.52pacman87by how much?
04:08.03brlcadabout doubles it on most systems
04:08.23brlcadlikewise turning it on will give about a rough 2X runtime boost
04:08.30brlcad(wrt ray-tracing)
04:08.37pacman87ok, so i'll take it off for now
04:08.44pacman87dont' want to wait another 25 min
04:08.53brlcadyeah
04:09.11brlcadsounds like you're machines not too spiffy too .. bwish is probably only about 1/3 through the compile
04:09.16brlcadwhich is where it stopped
04:09.21pacman87wow
04:09.42brlcadtis a big package, more than a million lines
04:09.57brlcadlots of functionality
04:10.10pacman87it's a 2.8 GHz P4, no hyperthreading, 533MHz fsb, 1280 MB ram PC2700
04:10.56brlcadyeah, mildly aged .. but that shouldn't take more than a half-hour I'd think
04:11.30brlcad(with opt off, with it on depends on many factors)
04:12.13pacman87i'm interested in applying for GSoC
04:12.24brlcadexcellent
04:12.36pacman873rd year ME student at UT austin
04:13.13brlcadso where's your interest?
04:13.31pacman87i've been lookign at the new primitives section
04:13.45brlcadcool
04:14.03pacman87even though that's not one of the 'high priority' ones on the list
04:14.11pacman87it's probably the one i'd be best at
04:14.18brlcada good application overrides the priorities
04:14.38brlcadthose priorities are project priorities, not applicant priorities
04:14.43pacman87i noticed your app guidelines "do
04:14.52pacman87's", says "play the game"
04:14.59brlcadheh, it does?
04:15.02pacman87yeah
04:15.08pacman87second paragraph
04:15.09brlcadI thought I got all those taken care of
04:15.11brlcadthanks
04:15.29pacman87i suppose it could be taken more metaphorically
04:15.33pacman87the programming game
04:15.37brlcadhehe
04:16.12brlcadour project admin is also the project admin for bzflag
04:16.22brlcadso the texts are ... really similar :)
04:16.32brlcadnice that you noticed though, seriously
04:17.02pacman87finished! 6m20s
04:17.25brlcadwow, that's one seriously expensive optimization loop
04:17.34pacman87no kidding
04:17.35brlcaddid you make clean or just make?
04:17.39pacman87make
04:17.41brlcadokay
04:17.45brlcadso that saved you some time
04:17.54brlcadyou'll have a mix of optimized and unoptimized
04:18.05brlcad(which is not a problem)
04:19.08brlcadmeans you probably only had about 15 minutes left, your optimized compile is probably about 30-40 minutes it sounds
04:19.16pacman87how are the current primitives handled?
04:19.20hippieindamakin8hey Sean
04:19.22brlcadunoptimized is probably 15-25
04:20.03brlcadpacman87: the librt library is the primary harbor for the primitives -- that's where they are predominantly defined
04:20.11brlcadsrc/librt/g_*.c
04:20.28pacman87ok, i'll start my code reading there
04:20.41brlcadthere's a g_*.c for each primitive type with what should be fairly obvious callbacks
04:20.54hippieindamakin8hey Sean i wen through some files of jbrlcad
04:20.57brlcadg_xxx.c is a stubbed version iirc
04:20.58brlcadhey hippieindamakin8
04:21.05hippieindamakin8and i seem to get a hang of that problem statement
04:21.29brlcadhippieindamakin8: after you read through jbrlcad, compare that to what's going on in src/librt
04:21.38brlcadin the main brlcad module
04:21.40hippieindamakin8sure
04:21.59brlcadyou'll see that there is LOTS of overlap, it's designed off of the current C api (as we're already rather modular)
04:22.21hippieindamakin8i am rt now understand the optimised ray tracing stuff too :P
04:22.31hippieindamakin8ok..
04:22.55brlcadpacman87: the other two places to look are src/libwdb where there is an mk_*() function for each primitive type to create them procedurally, and src/mged/typein.c and a few others have some of the editing/input methods for creating them
04:24.50brlcadpacman87: you also considering applying to bz?
04:25.24pacman87i'm not really sure what i'd do there
04:26.12brlcadk, just checking
04:26.27brlcadnow I realize why your nick was so familiar though :)
04:26.35brlcadbeen there since last winter iirc
04:26.50pacman87right, that's when i started doing plugins
04:35.48pacman87hmm, running /usr/brlcad/bin/mged opens the window and takes 96%cpu to do nothing - no menus open
05:05.23brlcadodd, not seen that before
05:05.33brlcadwhat version are you using?
05:05.49pacman877.12.1
05:06.00brlcadprobably something really recent
05:06.19brlcadrelated to the non-backgrounding we do now
05:06.32brlcador it's actually receiving a constant stream of events
05:06.42brlcadwould have to profile/debug it
05:07.24pacman87what would you recommend using?
05:08.10brlcadgprof, valgrind, oprofile
05:08.29brlcadgprof is pretty simple, if installed, you could recompile with --enable-profile
05:08.43brlcadand it'll profile it by default
05:09.17pacman87man gprof
05:11.40brlcadbasically involves adding -pg to the compile and link lines -- then you just run the binary once it's installed and it'll dump out a gmon.out file .. then you run gprof /usr/brlcad/bin/mged in the same dir as that gmon.out file and it'll generate a report
05:12.08brlcadyou could also run mged inside gdb, and just ctrl-c a few times to see where in the stack trace it is
05:13.08pacman87i've been telling myself to learn to use a debugger for a while now, but all of my programs have been small enough that printf() is sufficient
05:13.46brlcadvery useful skill to learn
05:14.02hippieindamakin8same here
05:16.57pacman87<PROTECTED>
05:16.57pacman87<PROTECTED>
05:40.10brlcadso run, let it go for a couple seconds, then quit? :)
05:40.33brlcadit should be exiting normally
05:41.15pacman87http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m60fc5897
05:41.19pacman87from gdb
05:42.38brlcadmged's not hung is it?
05:42.43brlcaddoes it respond?
05:42.45pacman87no
05:42.55pacman87*no response
05:42.56brlcadno to which?
05:43.01brlcadah, so it's hosed
05:43.12brlcadit'll be hosed once you ctrl-c in mged
05:43.16brlcads/hosed/paused/
05:44.12brlcadrun "mged -c" .. and select 'nu' .. does that use cpu?
05:45.11pacman87no
05:45.57pacman87i get the standard "mged>" prompt, which responds normally
05:48.59brlcadokay, that's good
05:51.29brlcadnext thing to try, same -c but select X
05:53.20pacman87standard "mged>" in terminal, plus a dm_X0 window, and cpu is fine
05:55.08brlcadwell that's enough to work on a new primitive *ahem* :)
05:55.33pacman87i first tried brlcad 3-4 years ago
05:55.43pacman87lookign for a free/open source CAD program
05:55.57brlcadso mged is non-functional when you start it with no options, using full-cpu
05:56.03brlcaddo the menus respond at all?
05:56.08pacman87not at all
05:56.19brlcadk
05:56.40pacman87but i got scared away by the command line (this was before i started teaching myself linux)
05:58.24CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30572 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: mged seems to be locking up at least on slackware, taking up full cpu and being non-responsive. works find with -c and X dm. reported by pacman87 (thx).
05:58.52brlcadyeah, our command-centric approach is really frightening to some
05:59.05brlcadhence the ton of priority focus on revamping the gui
05:59.15pacman87UT sold their soul to SolidWorks
05:59.34brlcadyeah
06:00.01hippieindamakin8i asked my professor here to use brlcad and he said NO :P it aint user friendly
06:00.16pacman87i'm thinking the revolve would be easiest to do
06:00.31brlcadsolidworks, unigraphics/nx, pro/engineer, and catia consume most of the cad domain with autocad dominating drafting
06:00.34hippieindamakin8its the same everywhere ppl use solidworks
06:01.07hippieindamakin8ya btw i used pythoncad before realising the existance of brlcad
06:01.15pacman87i use solidworks at my internship/part time job at ARLUT
06:02.21hippieindamakin8and i was asked everywhere to use.. autocad :P
06:04.21hippieindamakin8wat do u work on pacman ?
06:05.24pacman87autonomous surface vehicle for sonar testing
06:06.30brlcadhippieindamakin8: and what did you think of pythoncad
06:07.59hippieindamakin8firstly it is good enough for drafting
06:08.35brlcadreally think so?  I don't get that feeling
06:08.47hippieindamakin8very simple and good interface for the students
06:09.10hippieindamakin8that is wat i felt.. but yeah.. brlcad is most optimised
06:09.41hippieindamakin8it has so far the best real time ray tracing as i have read
06:10.25hippieindamakin8pythoncad is good enough for amatuers.. :) all my projects so far have been done on pythoncad after my freshman year in college
06:12.19hippieindamakin8the problem is that it cant export to any standard stuff
06:12.50hippieindamakin8i meant standard format... wat do u say brlcad
06:16.05brlcada very immature project with very little practical features, but a nice interface and reasonable features for the start of drafting purposes
06:17.00hippieindamakin8if u ask me to rate these i would rate pycad4.5 and brlcad 7
06:19.44hippieindamakin8cya guys.. time for the class.. i shall be back in 6 hrs
06:19.51brlcadcya
06:47.14brlcadwaves g'night
06:48.34brlcadpacman87: one more thing to try, you can run in gdb, set a breakpoint on main or some other early-executed function, and then single-step till things go awry
06:49.11brlcadmight get tricky as there's a tcl eval loop that kicks in, but with some patience you would eventually get to the line of interest
06:49.32pacman87i'll have to do some more research on debuggers first
06:49.44brlcadyou can use continue and breakpoints to get to the point in the code that is problematic
06:49.46pacman87thanks for your help
06:49.52brlcadno problem
06:50.13pacman87definately a steep learning curve, though (cmd line)
06:51.37brlcaduseful gdb commands are "b file:line" or "b function" to set a breakpoint, "run" to run, "c" to continue, "l" to list the sources where you're at, "l line" or "l file:line" to list the sources in a specific place, "p variable" to print it's value, "up" and "down" to go up and down the call stack
06:52.37brlcad"n" to execute the next statement, "s" to step 'into' a function
06:52.50brlcadi think some of the common ones are summarized on the manual page iirc
06:53.08pacman87yeah, and it's got a pretty nice 'help' feature
06:53.35pacman87contemplates solving this as his 'bugfix'
06:53.50brlcadwould be impressive
06:54.28brlcadand shouldn't be too hard .. might even be able to back up in time through the svn revisions and find a version that was working, find the commit that broke it
06:54.37brlcadbets it was within the last two months
06:56.05pacman87i'm builing bzflag 2.0.11 and 2.99 now so i can run my servers from linux
06:56.42pacman87i dual boot winXP
06:57.15pacman872am, goodnight
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13:41.46brlcadnotes there's another submission
13:41.54brlcad(and it needs more detail)
15:48.18brlcadd_rossberg: have you tried the 7.12.0 installer?
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15:55.07d_rossbergbrlcad: i can see the source download on sourceforge only, where can i find the installer?
15:58.06brlcadah, sorry
15:58.12brlcadit's on the anonymous ftp site
15:58.19brlcadftp://ftp.brlcad.org/incoming
15:59.27brlcadwe weren't going to distribute binaries for this .0 release until it was better tested .. and with good reason seeing that wim encountered problems
16:01.16d_rossbergi'm sorry but i'm using linux at home, on monday i'll be back in my office
16:02.57d_rossbergbut then i can do (probable) a complete test with a new visual studio
16:03.44brlcadokay, no problem
16:33.43brlcadwonders if Balakrishnan is the guy that was here last night
16:53.58cosurgibrlcad: I got new GPU today, no more unplanned reboots (hopefully). My old GeForce 6600 had lost its fan one year after warranty expired, and my PC was instatenously rebooting once GPU temperature reached 110 C
16:54.49cosurgiso today I bought fanless graphics card :) the cheapest one with dual-DVI, GeForce 8600 GT
16:55.45cosurgiThat GPU without a fan was a good method to prevent me from playing games. But it started to interfere with yade development (I'm using OpenGL there) so finally I had to buy a new one.
16:55.56cosurgi(-:
17:00.06*** join/#brlcad kannan (i=kannan@117.196.133.89)
17:01.13brlcadcosurgi: cool, that's a nice card
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18:52.47hippieindamakin8hey Sean .. this OO stuff is awesome man.. i am too much interested in this project :) i shall send in a proposal as soon as i wake up
19:06.55d_rossberghippieindamakin8: yes, make a claim for this topic, it makes the discussion easier
19:08.45d_rossbergthere are some attempts you can use
19:16.42hippieindamakin8i have been going through the jbrlcad module and the librt libraries
19:17.42hippieindamakin8and i am seriously interested in implementing the OO geometry APIs. .. some of them have already been implemented :)
19:18.07hippieindamakin8d_rossberg : u are a mentor too ?
19:19.38d_rossbergyes
19:19.48hippieindamakin8naice :)
19:20.44hippieindamakin8i have kind of figured out how the geometry has been rendered so far
19:22.47hippieindamakin8and i would like to code in JAVA itself to continue to build the module .. i am strongly familiar with both C++ and JAVA
19:24.49d_rossbergi have written a c++ interface for my company's purpose, and now we want to implement a full interface as open source
19:25.18hippieindamakin8company as in ?
19:25.59hippieindamakin8at the same time u want to make it object oriented framework
19:28.03d_rossbergi would recommend to implement a c++ api first and use this as basis for other languages (e.g. i build a COM interface to use BRL-CAD in MS Excel)
19:31.50hippieindamakin8COM interface what is it ?
19:32.42hippieindamakin8BRLCAD in MS Excel interesting.. wat exactly u gonna do .. send some csv s or smthing ?
19:32.52hippieindamakin8COM do u mean the serial port
19:33.22hippieindamakin8k :)
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19:57.31louipcCOM > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_Object_Model
19:57.34louipcmethinks
19:58.24hippieindamakin8:( thanks
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20:20.41d_rossbergCOM: this was a serious question?
20:23.18hippieindamakin8i knew that it was called DCOM in linux and the serial port was called COM port here :(
20:24.34d_rossbergDCOM is the network version of COM (similar to CORBA)
20:26.21hippieindamakin8oh
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20:37.33d_rossbergif you want to write MS Windows modules COM maybe a good choice: they can be used im Visual Basic (for applications too), some commercial CADs are offering a COM interface too
20:39.53hippieindamakin8ohh :)
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21:28.56jdolinerhello
21:31.02jdolineranyone here
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21:38.54hippieindamakin8hello jdoliner
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00:10.03*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu)
00:13.40brlcadjdoliner: howdy
01:08.59jdolinerbrlcad: are you present
01:10.49brlcadi am present
01:12.04jdolinergreat
01:12.34jdolinerI've been looking over some papers on CSG algorithms for BREP
01:14.12brlcadgreat
01:14.57brlcadso how do things look?
01:15.14jdolinerwell the algorithms seem understandable enough
01:15.57jdolinerthey just involve extending the features to affine spaces and then detecting their intersections with the other features
01:17.27brlcadplease do reference the papers you read in your submission
01:17.38jdolinerof course
01:17.52jdolinerhowever I have a few questions
01:18.02brlcadsure
01:19.52jdolinerfirstly I'm afraid I'm not yet that knowledgeable about the brlcad code base, so I haven't seen precisely what our BREP structures look like so I wonder if you could tell me exactly where in the src they're located
01:21.51jdolineralso are there any major constraints for the algorithm that you think wouldn't be immediately obvious, for example is it important that polygonal structures maintain quads or not
01:23.41brlcadokay, this is mildly complicated to explain, so bear with me
01:25.26brlcadwe actually have two brep implementations in our codebase, one is the n-manifold support (i.e. "NMGs") in our librt library the other is through the openNURBS library
01:26.26brlcadour nmgs support both polygonal and spline surface breps, but there are rather significant differences between the two
01:27.56jdolinersuch as
01:28.28brlcadnmgs are huge body of code in src/librt/nmg*.c and that is the code that is called if you create an 'nmg' (polygonal), a 'bot' (bag of triangles), or a 'nurbs' brl-cad primitive
01:29.07brlcadthe code for nurbs is in src/librt/nurb*.c .. it's another rather extensive body of code
01:30.27brlcadwe're in the process of replacing the nurbs body of code (and 'maybe' later the nmg/bot implementations) with the openNURBS library facilities via the implementation of a new 'brep' primitive type
01:31.08brlcadyour work relates to that latter new effort, part of the 'brep' implementation
01:31.23jdolineryes
01:32.27brlcadso as I mentioned, we're using openNURBS for that implementation -- but openNURBS doesn't provide *any* geometry evaluation routines (such as CSG evaluation)
01:32.28jdolinerSo possibly my proposal could contain a new implementation of a 'brep' primitive and then CSG operations to go with it
01:33.04brlcadno, no -- you really couldn't possibly implement a new brep primitive nor do you need to
01:33.07brlcadwe've already started on that
01:33.14brlcadsrc/librt/g_brep.c among other files
01:33.18jdolineroh I see
01:33.25brlcadit's about 90% complete for that matter
01:33.49brlcadwhere your work comes into play is that we have about 30 other primitives
01:34.28brlcadthose primitives are presently represented in implicit form -- so we have plans to implement the necessary "describe be in brep form" function
01:34.29jdolinerso the CSG algorithm needs to work on those primitives
01:34.50jdolinerin brep form that is
01:34.59brlcadright
01:35.41brlcadso we can take an existing CSG model, that is stored in implicit form .. ask for it in brep form, evaluate the brep-on-brep csg to generate an evaluated brep result
01:36.58jdolinerright that seems doable to me
01:37.41jdolinerwhat level of specificity is good for my proposal
01:37.49brlcadthis might just amount to implementing functions that were removed from openNURBS for evaluating ON_Brep objects
01:38.32brlcadthey removed most of their evaluation functions as they only intend/want the library to be used for reading/writing the 3dm file format -- we're extending the library, though
01:39.21brlcad(which is all kosher, just means we have a LOT of heavy/hard coding to do)
01:39.56brlcadbe as specific as you care to be, the more detail the better
01:40.27brlcadthis is a hot hot topic for us, so an outstanding proposal will easily be a high-priority contender for a slot
01:41.55brlcadshow that you understand the algorithm and how to go about implementing it, how it relates to brl-cad (even if it includes rewording and reiterating what i've said here)
01:44.22brlcadyou don't have to talk about what files you'd be editing, there is too much detail -- don't expect everything to be figured out, but the proposal needs to instill confidence that you understand the task, are passionate about the work, interested in long term development (which I hope you are!) :), and can communicate your ideas well
01:44.41jdolinerokay so basically the project boils down to: implement all of our 30 primitives as BREP objects, then implement CSG for BREP such that CSG model in implicit form could be converted into a BREP form
01:45.47jdolineralso where are the primitives implemented
01:45.49brlcadhehe
01:46.02brlcadwell, I wouldn't include the 30 primitives
01:46.16brlcadfocus on the implementation of the CSG BREP evaluation routine first as the core
01:46.36brlcadthen maybe add in room to start on the 30 primitives if time allows it
01:46.46jdolinerokay that seems reasonable
01:47.02brlcadsome of the existing primitives will be very hard to describe in brep form
01:47.17brlcadthere are several, however that are already done
01:47.29brlcadthey're just implemented using the old nurbs code
01:47.41brlcadall the primitives for brl-cad are in src/librt/g_*.c
01:48.26jdolinerright
01:49.15jdolinerOkay I think that's all I have for right now
01:49.22jdolinerthanks a bunch
01:49.31brlcadlook forward to seeing yours...
01:49.52brlcadwhat's your background coding?
01:51.24jdolinerI've had formal education in both C and Scheme as I mentioned
01:52.00brlcadyeah, sorry -- been talking to a lot of folks, so need reminders :)
01:52.01jdolinerI really haven't been coding all that long
01:52.13jdolinerSo formal in those two
01:52.24brlcadhave you ever read/written any C++ ?
01:52.58jdolinerThen I spent the summer coding at Fermilab
01:53.41jdolinerYeah physics programs are all very hacked together so I saw and wrote some C++, as well as Fortran over the summer
01:54.40jdolinerI can't claim to know the nuances by any means but I can hack
01:55.07brlcadfortunately, you can conceivably stick "mostly" with C .. but openNURBS is a C++ API, so to dig in deep there in figuring out the ON_Brep object structure is going to require some getting up to speed
01:59.50jdolinerI might have to brush up a bit before the summer starts then
02:01.12brlcadnods
02:01.22brlcadcertainly not a show-stopper, it's not that much of a hurdle
02:01.28brlcadparticularly for what you're doing
02:01.57brlcadand all else failing, there's plenty of C routines related to this task that you could be refocused onto if you true do get stuck
02:02.03brlcads/true/truly/
02:31.04pacman87brlcad: mged works only after minimizing the graphics window
02:31.54starseekertries inkscape for importing a .fig file and it seems to do pretty well - just needs a little scaling
02:33.15brlcadpacman87: you mean that undoes the lockup?
02:33.51pacman87brlcad: yes, after minimizing, the mged> window opens
02:34.53pacman87and cpu usages returns to ~0
02:35.35brlcadwow, wierd .. almost like it's stuck in a loop expecting an expose event
02:36.21pacman87and if i click on a menu while it's locked up, it opens the menu after it's minimized (floating on my screen) and gives the 'window not visible' error
02:36.35brlcadyeah, that makes sense
02:36.47brlcadthe events are just queue'd up
02:38.30brlcadif you want to go old-school debug style, you could add printf's incrementally to find the call or loop it's blocking on
02:38.41brlcadsrc/mged/ged.c is where mged's main starts
02:41.46pacman87what compile flag do i need for gdb?
02:42.12pacman87i need to learn real debugging sometime, why not now
02:44.10brlcadgdb only needs -g (which is on by default for both optimized and unoptimized)
02:44.25brlcadso unless you add --disable-debug, it should be debuggable
02:44.42brlcadif it's optimized, symbols and line numbers may be off, but it should work
02:56.22CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r30573 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db5_bin.c: eliminated excess logging
02:59.27brlcadpacman87: it is really appreciated that you're working on a patch (at least it seems like that's what you're doing) but you can put in your submission in before the patch if you like
03:00.34yukonbobwaves in
03:00.38yukonbobhello cadheads
03:01.03brlcadit is important that the application be solid regardless of the patch, the patch is then a major criteria to help differentiate the finalists
03:01.11brlcadhowdy yukonbob
03:01.22yukonbobwhat's shaking, brlcad?
03:03.20CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r30574 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/ (make_solid.tcl openw.tcl tclIndex): added binunif to create menu
03:03.45brlcado.0
03:03.48brlcadnot much
03:04.10brlcadMr. Anderson has been busy!
03:05.27*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
03:05.27*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || Release 7.12.0 imminent (no really!) || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code, see http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code and join the developer mailing list || GSoC application submissions are now open, submission deadline is March 31st
03:05.33yukonbob<PROTECTED>
03:06.19brlcad<PROTECTED>
03:06.49yukonbobheh -- /me locked self out of ssh'd/screen'd session w/ ipfw -- hence the (non)garbage
03:07.13brlcadfun
03:07.46yukonbobonly briefly, thank goodness -- both machines happen to be in front of me too, so not that scary.
03:08.50yukonbobbrlcad: you catch the brief dialogue other day (I don't remember if you were directly involved) about text in BRL-CAD?
03:10.19brlcadmusta missed that
03:11.03brlcadit needs to be better documented and exposed in simple routines (like "draw this text here in 2D/3D")
03:11.42brlcadbrb
03:11.46yukonbobhrmm -- ok -- part of it was about displaying text, and I think there are two basic options (iiuc) text-as-objects (a la POVRay (which is awesome)), or using the attributes of objects, and some auxillary display mech.
03:11.50yukonbobwaits
03:19.46yukonbobgrabs other 'puter, starts playing with graphing software
03:43.25brlcadyeah, text-as-objects would be annotation support
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03:43.46brlcadyou can use attributes to stash pretty much any random info, but not quite the same beast
03:51.00yukonbobreturns -- ok -- here's my "I wonder" though: if one had text attributes, could one parse the attributes and annotate a display... so my question I guess is: "What is the display?", including the on-screen version, and a dumpted-to-file version -- does rt do the rendering and pass it off to something else, or is rt's work the end-all-be-all? Is Tcl involved in a pipeline here?
03:51.16yukonbob*dumped-to-file
03:59.32yukonbobhits hay -- ciao, all.
04:18.21brlcadrt is the end-all-be-all of geometric display -- it certainly "could" pass it through another filter later, but that certainly would not be ray-tracing (and doe not presently occur)
04:19.32yukonbobreturns briefly
04:20.07brlcadthere is also a question of what you mean by display -- there is a "wireframe" display both projectable in 2D and in 3D, and possible 3D visualization (e.g. opengl), and 3D projected to 2D rasterization (i.e. ray-tracing)
04:21.14yukonbobok -- imagine if rt generated 'hints' for attributes to look-up and x,y positions to locate the attribute values, one could have the bitmap returned by rt annotated after-the-fact; not by ray-tracing, but some simple 2d-based annotation...
04:21.31brlcadso an object could have some textual label attribute, for example -- you could easily show a wireframe for it (perhaps even in a given font) and in 2D or 3D
04:21.57brlcadbut then that same label wouldn't ray-trace unless you give it "thickness"
04:23.17brlcadwhich we could do too .. e.g. assign annotations a default thickness of the current rendering cell size by default
04:23.50brlcadso the text would rasterize during ray-trace
04:24.05brlcadanother possibility would be a separate render pass similar to what rtwizard does
04:24.24brlcadwhere you'd have a tool that would just rasterize the annotations onto a given image context
04:24.32yukonbobwhat if rt said in it's output "here's some meta-info about what I just gave you: there's an object foo, with center-of-mass at 200x99; there's an object bar with a center-of-mass at 40x90; there's an object baz with c-o-m @ 1000x777", and some other program took that, looked up the attributes (if available) for those objects, and then printed at the c-o-m appropriate labels (gleened from attributes) on the bitmap?
04:25.42brlcadthat would be the separate pass tool I mentioned, albeit a slight variation for it to use the output -- it really just needs the view and it could figure out the rest
04:26.10yukonbobis there such a tool atm?
04:29.46yukonbobreally hits hay -- chat later :) (I'll check for response in AM)
04:29.57brlcadthere is not such a tool at the moment
04:30.10brlcadthere are no annotations at the moment
04:30.15brlcadthat's why it's on the list :)
04:52.14CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30575 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: john added support to mged for creating binunif objects via the Create menu
05:03.40CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30576 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: next release should be 'soon' so only promote rtarea, clone, and itcl build support
05:05.52CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30577 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (9 files in 3 dirs): consistently spell out all references to 'prims' as primitives to help usability. not documenting in news cause it's stupid..
05:15.46CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30578 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (conv/off/off-g.c irprep/all_sf.c libpkg/pkg.c): remove t parameter from open calls. it's not posix and not needed (text mode is default on windows).
05:29.59CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30579 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/log.c: cleanup, remove dead code
06:28.46CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30580 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/pl-dm.c: make pl-dm compile once again, de knrify it, remove code not longer relevant
06:33.40CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30581 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/pl-dm.c:
06:33.40CIA-33BRL-CAD: rip out the ogl and wgl code. it's highly unlikely that wgl will work without
06:33.40CIA-33BRL-CAD: modifications given X is required. also, it's just a horrible way to support N
06:33.40CIA-33BRL-CAD: dm interfaces .. the point is supposed to be that the dm interface incapsulates
06:33.40CIA-33BRL-CAD: against doing this kind of stuff.
06:38.09CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30582 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/Makefile.am: add pl-dm back to the build if X is available
06:39.38CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30583 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/Makefile.am: ws
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13:12.23CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30584 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS:
13:12.23CIA-33BRL-CAD: the opengl framebuffer problem on mac os x where parallel rendering was causing
13:12.23CIA-33BRL-CAD: it to fail was indeed fixed (by adding the necessary requests for each thread to
13:12.23CIA-33BRL-CAD: acquire the context), but something since then has changed -- it's just giving a
13:12.23CIA-33BRL-CAD: blank window at the moment
13:14.45CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30585 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: actually it is rendering, just not updating the window apparently until it gets expose events
13:21.10starseekerscowls at Axiom and fires up Maxima instead...
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14:22.09brlcadhello d_rossberg !
14:38.13``Erik*yargn*
14:50.06d_rossberghello brlcad!
14:51.17d_rossbergi had to feed the rabbits
14:58.57brlcadheh
14:59.05brlcaddid not know you had rabbits
15:03.28d_rossbergi don't have rabbits - i have to feed them (at least today)
15:04.48d_rossbergfeeds the rabits of his daughter
15:10.22brlcadmmm.. good eating
15:10.27brlcad:)
15:16.59d_rossberg??? i hope there is a difference between "of" and "to"
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15:21.56brlcadhehe
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19:13.13``Erikholy hand grenade of antioch?
19:51.11brlcadheya pacman87
19:57.03pacman87brlcad: hi
20:00.47brlcadmake any progress on that bug?
20:02.41pacman87line 570 in ged.c
20:03.18pacman87then it runs into a whole mess of tcl stuff
20:04.23pacman87though when i just let it run, and did a ctrl+c at the hang, 'where' told me i was in the openGL libs
20:09.47brlcadyeah, it's definitely related to the embedded display manager
20:10.04pacman87i got the latest nvidia driver last night, hoping to improve my bzflag framerate (from 100.xx to 169.12)
20:10.09pacman87and now it doesn't hang anymore
20:10.18brlcadheh
20:11.50pacman87though when i click in the graphics window, my other open windows get messed up
20:11.58pacman87and that didn't happen before
20:12.36pacman87the horizontal lines seem to be drawing at the wrong height
20:13.05pacman87offset +/- a bit
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20:18.12pacman87brb, restarting X
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21:16.56CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30586 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Add first exploratory coding efforts related to tire proc-db.
21:17.25CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30587 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/Makefile.am: Add tire.c to proc-db Makefile.
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21:55.09brlcadpacman87: hum -- you might have better experience with 7.10.4 then .. there were changes made in 7.12.0 related to the display manager (that fixed several other bugs but apparently are causing your poblems) -- it's related to directcolor and colormapping
22:07.51brlcadif you want another point you can break on you could probably add a breakpoint for either ogl_open or dm_open in the debugger before that 'gui' tcl eval line on 570
22:27.08CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30588 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/Makefile.am: need tk_cppflags
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23:32.41yukonbobwaves in, reads scrollback
23:36.11starseekerwaves back
23:39.51yukonbobhey starseeker
23:40.23starseekerhow goes it?
23:41.05yukonbobnot bad, I guess... I've been spending too much time on airplanes, and I don't have 7.12 running yet, but I'm alright :)
23:42.44brlcadso there's a slim chance that there might be a gsoc submission extension -- I wouldn't bank on it, but it'll depend how many students storm in over the weekend
23:43.39yukonbobwhen is the deadline (as it stands atm)?
23:43.56brlcadlate monday
23:44.07yukonbobnods
23:44.26pacman87what's the current application count?
23:44.51brlcadlast year, 75% of the submissions came in over the last weekend iirc, but apps were also open for two weeks instead of one, and easter wasn't so early
23:45.25brlcadpacman87: *very* few .. many orgs are at about 1/5th the level they were last year by this time
23:46.03brlcadso that bodes really well for the folks that have been in here and interacting for a while already ;)
23:46.41brlcadespecially since we really only want/need about 3 really good students ..
23:50.38pacman87after running through the 'mug' Mged tutorial, i'm wondering if there's a vector-scale command to stretch/shrink primitives differently along different axes
23:51.54brlcadprimitives can be scaled non-uniformly, except the torus
23:52.03brlcadthey can't be skewed, though
23:52.09brlcadthat's by design
23:52.50pacman87and the torus was what i wanted to scale (for a better looking handle)
23:53.01brlcadheh
23:53.22brlcadI was just talking about that earlier today
23:53.35pacman87i could be done using a sweep about an ellipse
23:53.40brlcadI'm thinking to add in support for non-uniform scaling to torus and skewing
23:53.53pacman87*it could
23:54.09brlcadsweeps are on the gsoc new primitives list
23:54.59pacman87yeah, i figured i would start with the revolve, then do the sweep next
23:55.43brlcadyeah, revolve should be pretty easy
23:55.54brlcadsweep can get *really* tricky
23:56.12brlcadespecially if you allow 2D and 3D sweeps and if you allow an orientation vector
23:56.33pacman87path + orientation vector normal to path?
23:57.15pacman87that was another question i had about using 3D shapes as the base for these new primitives
23:57.17brlcadi mean an orientation vector maybe not normal to path
23:57.26brlcadas well as a twist
23:58.03brlcadi.e. two vectors and the path
23:59.53pacman87twist = rotation about the path, and orientation = offset between path and shape's surface normal?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080329

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080329

00:00.44brlcadshape's direction normal
00:00.49brlcadbut yeah
00:01.38pacman87i'm just thinking 2D to keep it simple for now
00:01.50pacman87get the terminology straight
00:06.44*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu)
00:06.58starseekerHowdy iraytrace :-)
00:07.13iraytraceGood evening!
00:07.20starseekerHow's life?
00:07.25iraytraceFun!
00:07.35starseekerGetting into trouble? ;-)
00:07.36iraytraceI'm a bachelor this weekend!
00:07.43iraytraceLots o' trouble.
00:07.51iraytraceDoing ray-tracing homework assignemtn.
00:07.57iraytrace-ment
00:08.08starseekerfun
00:08.46iraytraceMostly.  There's a certain element of "how many times in my life do I have to implement perlin noise?" that is Meh.
00:09.05starseekermmm.
00:09.09starseekerI can see that
00:10.13iraytraceAnything good  on your end?
00:10.45starseekertangling with implementing matrix logic
00:10.54*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487512E.dip.t-dialin.net)
00:11.02starseekernothing fancy, but good for getting up to speed on C again
00:11.49iraytraceI'm going the opposite direction.  Everything is in C++ for the class here.
00:12.52starseekerJust doing a proc-db, so C should be enough
00:12.56*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
00:13.42iraytraceproc-db's are always fun.
00:15.43pacman87"mged> exec fbserv 1 /dev/sgip &" fails with "no such device '/dev/sgip'"
00:16.00iraytraceAre you on an SGI?
00:16.25starseekerCool, here we go - this dude has both side view and cross sections of an engine:  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110236614029
00:16.38*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487512E.dip.t-dialin.net)
00:16.43iraytracepacman87: You probably want /dev/X
00:17.13yukonbobhas been looking at airplanes a lot lately (having been flying too much, and also because the 50th aniversary of the Canadian Avro Aero happened this week)...
00:17.16pacman87iraytrace: thanks :)
00:18.58iraytraceBlueprints are cool, but the model I would build from it is available online for $15
00:19.56starseekerTrue :-)
00:20.09starseekerlikes the combination of history and technical geekery
00:21.25iraytraceIt is sweet.
00:27.09starseekeryukonbob:  Heh - wonder if a propeller could be modeled with our primitives
00:28.41yukonbobwell, the (dare I say it) havoc has props... I haven't inspected them, though
00:29.07yukonbobshould spend some time and get a model of that famous (around here) impeller modelled.
00:29.16iraytraceWith the new spline support it should be possible
00:29.35pacman87iraytrace: :)
00:29.42starseekerthat could be cool yukonbob :-)
00:29.56yukonbobthere's a primitive called sketch, right? (/me doesn't have his manuals around, nor a copy of brl-cad)?
00:30.03starseekerthen for bonus points have gcam take the model and make one ;-)
00:30.22yukonbobstarseeker: do we have access to a CAM device?
00:30.33starseekerI don't
00:30.35yukonbob(ie: CNC, i guess)
00:31.24yukonbobstarseeker: have you seen the video-clip of that 4-axis device making that impeller?
00:31.40starseekeris that the one you linked on youtube?
00:31.59yukonbobI wasn't the original linker to it, but I believe it was off youtube, ya..
00:32.22starseekerthat was neat
00:32.25yukonbobI linked to a frame from it, which gives a good detail of the complexity of the shape, but watching the process is really impressive.
00:36.54starseekerbrlcad: did you see a compile warning about  macro "DM_OPEN" passed 4 arguments, but takes just 3?
00:38.49pacman87anyone know any good reference books for solid modelling algorithms?
00:45.09starseekerstarts digging into DM_OPEN, then breaks for supper...
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02:21.09*** part/#brlcad Daytona (n=jra@c-68-55-36-65.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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02:22.47brlcadheya Daytona
02:25.04Daytonahi
02:26.01DaytonaLooks like the GSoc application deadline might get extened for a week
02:29.15starseekeris a bit confused - the only definition of dm_open grep finds, in dm.h, seems to have 3 args. All the uses that compile correctly have 4, and none seems to include dm.h directly. However, mged_dm.h does include dm.h...
02:29.23brlcadDaytona: yeah, it's really odd
02:29.40brlcadthe rate of students is distinctly different from this time last year
02:29.55brlcadwe were talking about it in the gsoc irc channel earlier today before she sent out the message
02:30.43DaytonaI guess the early Easter my be the cause
02:30.54brlcadmost of the returning projects across the board are seeing drastically lower rates (like 1/5th usual) -- the comment from that one guy about easter and holidays is probably spot on
02:31.06brlcadthere have been fewer US/EU visitors
02:31.10starseekerand mged_dm.h seems to be the only .h file to also include dm.h
02:31.45brlcadalso last year, submission week was a week earlier, went for two weeks instead of one, and easter was much later of course
02:33.42Daytonastarseeker: are you seeing this error: pl-dm.c:1040:48: error: macro "DM_OPEN" passed 4 arguments, but takes just 3
02:33.49starseekeryes
02:33.51brlcadlast year there were 6300 total submissions, we're at roughly 1600 this year with three days to go -- so if 4k don't flood in this weekend, it'll probably get extended I'd imagine
02:34.03brlcadyeah, that's my bad
02:34.06brlcadfixes
02:34.21brlcadpl-dm.c was disabled (since we went to autoconf)
02:34.35brlcadjust re-enabled it last night .. worked here, but must have missed some things
02:35.04starseekeris somewhat confused as to why other dm_open calls ARE working... must be one of those obvious things
02:35.13Daytonayeah, I just noticed it tonight
02:35.52brlcadhuh
02:36.00brlcadmust be another DM_OPEN ..
02:36.09starseekerNot that grep can find
02:36.09brlcadread/fixed based on include/dm.h #define DM_OPEN(_interp, _type, _argc, _argv) dm_open(_interp, _type, _argc, _argv)
02:37.04starseeker#define DM_OPEN(_type, _argc, _argv) dm_open(_type, _argc, _argv) is what I'm seeing...
02:37.32brlcadooh, I see -- missed committing the header since it is in include/
02:37.49starseekerAh :-)
02:38.25brlcadthat line is wrong in dm.h -- the interp was added years ago, but pl-dm is the only user
02:38.47CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30589 10/brlcad/trunk/include/dm.h: need the interp
02:41.17Daytonabrlcad: hate to be a pain, but now: rlcad/src/util/pl-dm.c:1046: undefined reference to `dm_configureWindowShape'
02:41.29brlcadeep
02:42.37Daytonabrlcad: I'm not in any rush to get it compiled
02:42.48brlcadstill, my mistake -- i'll fix
02:43.51CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30590 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/Makefile.am: turn pl-dm off until I can get a full clean build to verify all flags are set
02:44.56hippieindamakin8hey brlcad and pacman87 and others :)
02:45.01Daytonatgat fixed it :-)
02:45.09brlcad:)
02:45.25brlcadcould probably rip the whole thing out, but it's the smallest libdm example (albeit weak)
02:46.13Daytonahippieindamakin8: hi
02:50.48hippieindamakin8how reliable is this information that the deadline might be extended for the GSoC applications
02:51.13brlcadhippieindamakin8: it entirely depends how many apps are received over the weekend so I wouldn't rely on it
02:51.34brlcadif you procrastinate and don't submit, there's no recourse
02:51.36hippieindamakin8even i wouldnt :)
02:52.19DaytonaI believe the decision won't be made till Monday
02:53.13hippieindamakin8hey i have been going through the codes man.. OO programming has cut down the code length too :P
02:54.10brlcadit's not complete, it's a start
02:54.46hippieindamakin8yaya i have been chking individial codes and comparing them'
02:54.55hippieindamakin8for example Arbs
02:57.40hippieindamakin8composed a new song last night :)
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03:09.51CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30591 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: started in 2008, new header format
03:16.41CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30592 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/pl-dm.c: don't need the glx headers and dm_configureWindowShape no longer exists
03:36.00starseekerbrlcad:  Oops, sorry
03:44.53CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30593 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/Makefile.am: try turning pl-dm back on.. works here clean-built
03:45.02brlcadnothing to be sorry about
03:57.53starseekerConfirmed - builds here too
03:58.21brlcadcool
03:59.19Daytonabrlcad: builds clean here, too (on ubuntu)
03:59.43brlcadcool
04:00.19Daytonabrlcad: is my nick showing up at the start of my messages?
04:00.24brlcadDaytona: so I forget where things left off with ubuntu build .. does it work for you again?  you'd upgraded libtool iirc
04:00.35brlcad00:00 < Daytona> brlcad: is my nick showing up at the start of my messages?
04:00.46brlcaduses irssi
04:01.01brlcadsimilar to your bitchx
04:01.09hippieindamakin8does irssi have proxy support ?
04:01.21brlcadooh, you're on irssi now
04:01.30DaytonaThanks, I'm just trying irrsi, but my nick shows up blank here
04:01.31brlcad~Daytona++
04:01.40brlcadblank?
04:01.54brlcadsure it's not colored white or something?
04:01.59*** mode/#brlcad [+o Daytona] by brlcad
04:02.09Daytonalikely
04:02.16brlcaddo you see the @?
04:02.20Daytonayes
04:02.25brlcadbut nothing after?
04:02.28Daytonayes
04:02.41Daytonalike <@       >
04:02.44brlcadtry hilighting/selecting it .. i'm guessing it's white
04:02.57Daytonayou'r right
04:02.57brlcador whatever the color of your background
04:04.11DaytonaBack to ubuntu, yes I upgraded libtool to the latest release
04:04.59Daytonanow using libtool 2.2
04:05.13brlcadand everything then worked?
04:05.27brlcadhmm
04:05.41Daytonayes, but the defaul that is installed with ubuntu does not work
04:05.55brlcadnods
04:06.16brlcadI started working through that with one of the guys in here earlier in the week, to see if I could get a work-around
04:07.00brlcadI did trace down part of the problem -- they've modified it to strip out the -L linker paths, with messages to set -rpaths (which is wrong for pre-installed)
04:11.47DaytonaWell, I know the night is just getting started for all you young coders, but it's late for this dinosaur
04:12.04DaytonaHave a nice night, bye all
04:12.26*** part/#brlcad Daytona (n=jra@c-68-55-36-65.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
04:13.33brlcad:)
05:57.25pacman87brlcad:ping
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08:47.24cosurgiok, so later probably I'll try to install libtool 2.2
09:02.29alex_jonibrlcad: maybe you can pass this to Daytona (if he get's back): Ubuntu's terminal by default has a white background, which makes irssi kinda odd to use. One of the first things I do is change the profile for terminal to use a *standard* white on black :)
09:50.11hippieindamakin8brlcad or any body here .. can somebody tell me where are the gui files located ?
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10:58.25MinuteElectronhippieindamakin8: binaries or source?
10:58.39hippieindamakin8source
10:58.48hippieindamakin8and can u tell me wat are the .1 files ?
10:58.55MinuteElectronno, sorry
10:59.08hippieindamakin8ohh np :)
11:00.59hippieindamakin8brlcad or d_rossberg are u there ?
11:02.52hippieindamakin8can u tell me wat are the .1 files for example the file rtarea.1 in the rt folder of the sources
11:02.58hippieindamakin8?
11:04.19alex_jonisounds like a manpage name :D
11:06.55hippieindamakin8ohk wat does it mean ?
11:07.11hippieindamakin8they are in some scripting language i guess
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12:40.17brlcadcosurgi: nooooo, not yet :)
12:40.25brlcadyou were my test bed to get default working :)
12:44.33hippieindamakin8hey brlcad u back.. ? good morning
12:45.18brlcadmorning
12:45.47brlcadman man
12:46.18hippieindamakin8if i am not buggin u early in the morning :P tell me wat are these ascii troffs doing in the package and wat do they do
12:46.28brlcadman man :)
12:46.47alex_jonihippieindamakin8: 'man' is a system for documentation
12:46.53alex_jonicomes from manual
12:47.01hippieindamakin8ohh :P
12:47.11hippieindamakin8u meant man as manual
12:47.14hippieindamakin8:P
12:47.28alex_jonitype it into a terminal 'man man'
12:48.12hippieindamakin8it is manual on man :)
12:49.31hippieindamakin8and brlcad i am unable to understand what do i put in the proposal
12:50.05hippieindamakin8as in apart from the idea
12:52.08brlcaddid you read the application guidelines?
12:52.22brlcadthat should give you a big range for how to get started
12:52.30hippieindamakin8yaya
12:57.52hippieindamakin8incase i start rewriting the entire libraries in OOP language even the applications and programs dependant on those have to be rewritten..
12:58.22hippieindamakin8or it has to be written in such a way that nothing else get disturbed ?
13:01.49brlcad"rewriting" is most certainly not how I'd describe the task
13:02.03brlcadrefactoring and reorganizing existing code is the underlying idea
13:02.20hippieindamakin8ya rather porting it to the OOP form
13:02.39brlcadcreating a new layer that leverages what is written as much as possible, cleaning it portions while working on the OO layer
13:03.34brlcadthe jbrlcad interface was an "imported rewrite" simply because it's a different language -- for a C++ layer, it could utilize librt/libbn/libbu routines directly
13:03.52hippieindamakin8ya
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13:11.04brlcadg'morning d_rossberg
13:11.06hippieindamakin8wat exactly do u xpect the student to do in this project ?
13:11.14hippieindamakin8good morning d_rossberg
13:11.20brlcadhippieindamakin8: I expect them to do what they propose ;)
13:11.30hippieindamakin8:))))
13:11.35brlcadit's your job to propose something, not mine
13:11.45brlcadi already provided the general ideas
13:11.54d_rossbergwaves from home
13:11.57hippieindamakin8i am in a mood to change everything rt from the libraries into java
13:11.57brlcadyou're supposed to refine those ideas
13:12.02hippieindamakin8:P
13:12.09hippieindamakin8ya
13:12.21hippieindamakin8i shall be coming up with a refined idea
13:13.01brlcadd_rossberg: so I presume you've been watching the list -- the student rate is drastically lower this year for some reason (like 1/5th) probably due to the early easter, so there "may" be a student extension
13:13.28hippieindamakin8there are many friends of mine who are planning to apply on the last day :)
13:13.43brlcad"Applications to PHP and Gentoo haven't been very encouraging so far - only 10 each" .. wow
13:13.52hippieindamakin8so there might be a sudden rise in the applications on 31st
13:13.58brlcadgentoo in particular has more than a hundred by this time last year iirc
13:14.06d_rossbergbrlcad: yes, i've read the mails
13:14.32brlcaddebian guys reported something similar .. they're at about 20 and usually are 200-300 by now
13:16.03brlcadi thought that through most of the week too as cad and bz have been nearly identical interest, and bz's is *much* lower than last year (about 1/5th)
13:16.12brlcadturns out it's almost all orgs
13:16.43d_rossberghippieindamakin8: your application should show us that you know what your are talking about, that means BRL-CAD but object oriented design too
13:17.34hippieindamakin8ohk.. u mean i should specify my plan of action
13:17.39d_rossberghow do you think should an oo interface to a database look like, how should the ray-trace interface be implemented
13:18.17hippieindamakin8ohk..
13:19.31d_rossbergthe database is a file, how would you handle multiple access to this file? (for example)
13:19.40hippieindamakin8ohk..
13:20.44hippieindamakin8.. i always have been a c++ and java programmer mainly but its taking me time to understand how the system works.. given a problem i can solve that..
13:21.03hippieindamakin8i have been understanding the system
13:27.04d_rossberghas some guests today
14:14.12hippieindamakin8brlcad how many applications did u recieve so far
14:16.25hippieindamakin8brlcad and as far as multiply accessing the file is concerned how do u do it.. i have no idea,, i just read that u have to use some virtual base classes and stuff
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17:14.16mib_niv7mz6nHello all
17:26.33brlcadhum hum
17:26.46brlcadhippieindamakin8: told you before, don't worry about the other apps, worry about yours...
18:27.58pacman87brlcad: is the src/librt/g_*.c code used for the CSG/BREP too?
18:32.24brlcadpacman87: what do you mean?
18:32.42brlcadthe g_files are the definitions of each primitive
18:33.03brlcadCSG is handled is a different layer above the primitives for ray-tracing
18:33.11brlcads/is a/in a/
18:33.46pacman87so the CSG uses the rt calls to do its evaluations?
18:34.08brlcadwhen you have CSG operators regardless of the representation, you have evaluated and unevaluated CSG forms
18:35.07brlcadray-tracing causes the CSG expressions to get evaluated as the shot-line is traversed and primitives segments are encountered
18:35.20brlcadwhat you're proposing has nothing to do (directly) with ray-tracing
18:35.41brlcadyou're evaluating CSG operators on BREP surfaces going from unevaluated BREP to evaluated BREP
18:36.35brlcadCSG isn't a system that "does" anything -- they are simply combination operators (union, subtraction, difference) that describe how shapes interact spatially
18:37.09brlcaddoes that make sense?
18:37.26pacman87mostly
18:38.21brlcadso take a simple case of two overlapping spheres that are intersected
18:39.10pacman87an intersection would be where the ray has entered both spheres
18:39.20brlcadwith implicit geometry (i.e. what we use for ray-tracing), the CSG expression of "sphere1 intersected with sphere2" is evaluated during ray-trace
18:39.27brlcadno
18:39.44brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_solid_geometry
18:40.25pacman87i meant the surface that's drawn is the second one the ray hits
18:40.47pacman87so it has to enter sph1 first, then the surface of sph2 that's inside sph1 is actually drawn
18:40.56brlcadthink of them independently
18:41.07brlcadyou compare a ray against sphere1 .. you end up with a segment
18:41.19brlcadyou compare a ray against sphere2 .. you end up with a different segment
18:41.54brlcadwith an intersection CSG operation, there is an evaluated result only where the two segments coexist
18:42.03brlcadi.e. where they overlap and share space
18:42.17pacman87ah, now it's all clear, thanks
18:43.17brlcadnow with *brep* on brep csg evaluation, that's a totally different approach
18:43.42brlcadthere you have surfaces.. one surface for sphere1 .. one surface for sphere2
18:44.13brlcadyou actually compute the intersection of those two surfaces by performing pairwise trimming operations of the actual surfaces
18:45.45brlcadso in the picture in the wikipedia link, the intersection result ends up with a brep that has 4 surfaces stiched together  (created from the 6 + 2 surfaces for the box and sphere)
18:46.45pacman87sph has 2 surfaces?
18:49.36brlcadyeah
18:50.21brlcadcould conceivably have just one, I don't know how the brep control points would be like for that, if it's numerically stable
18:50.43pacman87could you recommend a good reference book on the math behind csg/brep?
18:51.18pacman87i'm was planning to stop by the engr lib this afternoon
18:53.47brlcadoof, there's a lot of material on the subject but maybe find a few papers
18:54.22pacman87right, i was wonder if there were any 'classic texts' in the field
18:54.24brlcadhttp://sca2002.cs.brown.edu/~jfh/papers/Laidlaw-CSG-1986/paper.pdf is kinda one of the original canon papers on how to implement csg evaluation of polygonal brep models
18:54.50brlcadi'm frankly not sure that will work for spline surface brep models
18:57.20pacman87allowing partial revolutions of 3D objects adds a *lot* of complexity
18:59.29pacman87i'm assuming i should set the revolve up to be usable with any primitive, combination, or region?
18:59.46pacman87keep it generalized
19:01.24brlcaderm, I'm confused
19:01.31brlcadwhat are you actually working on proposing? :)
19:01.41brlcadcsg evaluation of breps or a new primitive? :)
19:02.28brlcadfully implementing a revolution and/or sweep primitive is in itself enough scope for a project
19:02.57brlcadotherwise, yeah, revolve and sweep should be generalized to any primitive
19:04.14pacman87i'm proposing new primitive(s), and i was trying to find the point at which a new primitive was 'done', ie could be used by the rest of the system
19:06.02pacman87combs and regions aren't primitives, though (are they?)
19:13.41brlcadahhh
19:13.49brlcadthen you don't need to worry about csg evaluation of breps then :)
19:13.59brlcadcombs and regions are not primitives
19:14.49brlcada new primitive is done when all of the hook functions in g_*.c are implemented librt, it has creation routines in libwdb, and it has editing features implemented in mged
19:17.18brlcadthe big hook functions that take time are prep/shot, import (v5), export (v5), tess, plot, nurb(optional), and to a lesser extent norm, curve, and uv
19:17.22brlcadthe rest are trivial
19:17.51brlcadprep/shot, tess, and nurb are usually the hard ones -- shot often being the hardest
19:18.04pacman87brlcad: right, i've been looking in-depth at the g_xxx.c and g_*.c files
19:20.06pacman87found rt_xxx_class() in g_xxx.c, does that just return whether the xxx is valid?
19:20.36pacman87rt_*_class() returns 0 for the real primitives i've checked
19:21.04brlcadif you want to see all of the places a primitive is hooked, you can follow one of the existing primitives
19:21.09brlcadyou can ignore class
19:21.17brlcadyou'll see everyone just returns 0
19:21.41pacman87ok, just double checking
19:22.43pacman87should i include algroithms for those methods in my application?
19:24.09brlcadexample:   find . \( -name \*.c -o -name \*.h \) -exec grep -I SUPERELL {} /dev/null \; | cut -f1 -d: | sort | uniq
19:24.29brlcad<PROTECTED>
19:24.48brlcadthose are two relatively new primitives
19:25.01brlcadthat shows you all the files that are edited that involve them
19:25.21brlcadwith slight differences -- superell has mirror and v4 supported, metaballs don't
19:25.28brlcadyou'd need mirror, but not v4
19:26.08brlcadyou should instill confidence that you're aware of what's involved in the algorithms, regardless of whether you know the algorithm itself yet
19:26.16pacman87where is the generic interface for the rt_*_* methods? (assuming there is one)
19:26.39pacman87so a very high-level description of the steps
19:27.16brlcadyeah, explain what you think you have to do, maybe include "why" (i.e. wth do those functions do)
19:28.08pacman87the revolve will probably be a lot more detailed than the sweep, as i've only been thinking about rev
19:28.21brlcadwhat and how are more important than why, but can be high-level descriptions with maybe some technical references (who's algorithm/approach are you going to use?  your own? some paper?)
19:28.29brlcadthat's fine
19:29.09brlcadyou could simply state that if you get enough done, you would then move on to the sweep
19:29.33pacman87s/enough// :)
19:29.44brlcadit's entirely conceivable that you could hack out a new primitive in a matter of just two weeks .. or it could take months
19:30.22pacman87yeah, i was trying to get a clearer idea of scope earlier so i could figure how long it would take
19:30.27brlcadand there's nothing wrong with either timeline
19:30.37pacman87i'm thinking the rev could take a few weeks, maybe a month
19:30.55pacman87then the sweep would probably take a bit longer
19:31.07brlcadcare more about having devs working on cool stuff for the project that we need, attracting new long-term guys excited about this stuff :)
19:31.35brlcads/guys/guys n' gals of course/
19:32.18pacman87yeah, working on primitives fits with my approach to problem solving
19:32.28pacman87i work as a tutor for the college of engineering
19:33.00pacman87and pretty much every problem/concept i teach, i start with the basic integral/derivative forms of the equations (i teach physics)
19:35.18pacman87heads off to the engr library, back later
19:43.31brlcadcya!
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22:26.15spike_hey, is anyone in here a mentor for the GSOC project?
22:26.28brlcadhello spike_
22:26.35spike_hey :-D
22:26.40brlcadseveral, best to just speak up :)
22:27.05b0efit would be nice if NURBS was put on the gsoc page
22:27.28brlcadb0ef: it is in several ways
22:27.29spike_i don't know too much about BRL-CAD but it seemed like a cool project, just curious what projects need to get done
22:27.41brlcadspike_: have you seen the ideas list?
22:27.48spike_yup
22:28.05spike_a lot of them look cool, i just figured i should talk to someone instead of just 'picking' one
22:28.13brlcadthen... those are the projects that need to get done ;)
22:28.23brlcadactually you picking one is best
22:28.31brlcadthey're all great ideas, lots of possibilities
22:28.42spike_haha oh alright then
22:29.06brlcadthe ones that are "most important" are identified as high priority, but a really good proposal will trump that in just about any category
22:30.00brlcadsame goes for a project not even on the list if it fits with our goals
22:55.20CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30594 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: resolved ogl crash, removed duplicate context invalidate bug
23:44.32brlcadwoot, but fixed
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080330

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080330

00:35.25spike_hey is anyone doing collada conversion for GSoC?
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00:50.57brlcadspike_: nobody has mentioned it yet
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01:22.28mafmhallo
01:22.40Daytonahi
01:24.13mafmare there mentors for GSoC around?
01:25.03DaytonaI am a possible mentor, and brlcad is the organizer for brlcad
01:25.09brlcadmafm: several, what's up?
01:25.34mafmoh, I though that brlcad was a bot ;)
01:25.50DaytonaHe is, kinda :-)
01:25.55mafmI was thinking about submitting an application for the first idea
01:26.07mafmI know, I know, it's a bit late :P
01:26.16Daytonabrlcad" meant that in a nice way :=)
01:26.18brlcaddances the robot
01:26.51brlcadmafm: it's not too late
01:26.57DaytonaWhat was the first idea? (refresh our memory)?
01:26.59mafmshould I discuss this in the mailing list instead?
01:27.32mafmthe 1st idea is: OpenGL GUI Framework
01:28.36brlcadwe can talk here, you can submit a summary or preview of your proposal to the ML if you like so the other mentors can see it (and/or to the wiki and of course eventually to google)
01:28.50mafmthe thing is that I don't know if the requirements (C++ and OO design) is enough
01:28.51brlcadmafm: so what do you understand of that task?
01:29.01brlcador what are your ideas
01:29.23mafmI'm also familiar with CrystalSpace, OpenSceneGraph and OGRE (in that order)
01:29.47mafmsince I was developing a 3D game with the first 2, and played a bit with the 3rd
01:30.29mafmhmm, well, the thing is that I don't understand it very well -- let me try to explain it in my words
01:30.36brlcadplease do
01:31.08spike_bbl
01:31.51mafmIn http://brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html there's the following idea under Visualization:
01:32.03mafmCreate a 3D geometry browser graphical interface using a common graphics engine (e.g. OGRE, Open Scene Graph, Crystal Space)
01:33.01mafmthat would be, I think, to feed one of those engines with BRL-CAD created models to see the results in real time?
01:33.25brlcadsorta
01:33.42brlcadhave you ever used brl-cad yet? seen mged?
01:34.41brlcadthat 3D geometry browser graphical interface topic is pretty much the same as the first gsoc topic
01:34.45mafmnope, I never used brl-cad, and that's my main question -- if it would be sensible to apply without it
01:35.19brlcadsure, it's sensible -- but you'll have to of course tie the idea to brl-cad though .. so you'll have some learning to do
01:36.08brlcad~.pt
01:36.09ibotfrom memory, .pt is Portugal
01:36.11brlcadnifty
01:36.17mafmand about the OpenGL GUI Framework I understand to create a frontend in one of those engines, calling commands of brl-cad
01:36.37mafmkind of what Unix CD burner frontends do
01:36.53brlcadyeah, that's sort of the basic jist
01:37.15mafmwhat about .pt? :D
01:37.46brlcadmuch of the work would actually entail working on a network-based prootocol to call backend brl-cad commands
01:38.02brlcadthen displaying the results via the gui interface
01:39.09mafmnetwork-based being with sockets really, or just to describe the architecture of the tools collaborating?
01:39.36brlcadso one command might be as simple as "get list of available geometries" .. "get handle for geometry X" .. "get a wireframe display list" .. then display that display list with the gui
01:40.21brlcadmafm: yeah, some simple socket api -- you'd probably get details for the protocol and/or help develop some basic stubs
01:42.08mafmactually the game that I was developing was a multiplayer one, I also coded the communication part :D
01:42.15brlcadthe focus would definitely be on the frontend gui side though -- setting up the pieces needed to display/manage geometry
01:42.26mafmkind of "get available characters for the account" :)
01:42.32brlcadmaybe the start of a command/debug console for testing the API/commands
01:42.48mafmand then displaying it in the GUI of the client, logging in, etc
01:43.02brlcadexactly
01:43.36mafmthere's already support in the backend for that, or it would be part of the project?
01:43.43brlcadthe intent of the new system is a client/server interface, so that task revolves around the front-end thin client (emphasis on the thin)
01:44.02brlcadthere's not already support -- it's being developed in parallel
01:44.17brlcadso pieces of it might be part of the project, but you could get away with just stubbing responses too
01:44.59mafmah OK, sounds fun :)
01:45.40mafmand all that with C++ and [L]GPL license?
01:46.29brlcadthe language "shouldn't" really matter, I could see several allowed, but C/C++ are our predominant source base and it's nice to stay consistent
01:46.49brlcadLGPL is ideal
01:47.05brlcads/ideal/required for gsoc/
01:48.00mafmit's because I like C++ better than C or Java, and those 3 engines are best suited for C++ it seems
01:49.01mafmand well, there are other licenses accepted for SoC, but I tend to use GPL for my projects too
01:49.02brlcadC++ would be my personal preference, but as a thin client, the intention really is to make it easy to wrap clients
01:49.32mafm:)
01:49.38brlcadGPL is highly problematic for us in general
01:50.01brlcadas we integrate and are embedded with lots of analysis codes
01:51.01mafmLGPL is fine too
01:51.24brlcadyeah, details at http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Acceptance
01:52.38mafmyep, I was reading that
01:53.06mafmyou can take a look to my CV in the meanwhile if you're interested: http://www.lip.pt/~mafm/cv-gsoc2008.pdf
01:53.57mafmthe website of the game that I've been developing with other ppl for a while is down due to hardware problems
01:53.59brlcadthanks
01:54.26mafmbut here's a site with info that I discovered yesterday: http://linux.softpedia.com/get/GAMES-ENTERTAINMENT/RPG/Fearann-Muin-20516.shtml
01:55.01mafm(I didn't expect that we deserved an entry in such a place, being the project stalled, but well :) )
01:55.15mafmit was initially in CrystalSpace and then in OpenSceneGraph
01:56.09mafmthe most beautiful screenshots are not there though, those are with testing models and terrain
01:57.42brlcadso what are your thoughs on CS and OSG?
01:58.01brlcadnice to see that you have experience with both, that's certainly helpful
02:01.36mafmand OGRE too, but only playing with it for a few months
02:01.58mafmwell, I haven't been actively using them for more than a year, so not sure about the advances
02:02.41mafmCS was more like a game engine, trying to integrate also sound, physics, GUI libraries and other things useful for most games
02:02.53brlcadhaving used all three, OGRE is a really strong contender to me -- and steve really has a great focus on the project that fits with what is needed
02:03.31mafmOSG was more like the state-of-the-art of open scene graphs, but other things for 3D applications had to be integrated
02:04.01mafmthere are things like Delta3D trying to make a self-contained game engine with OSG as the principal component
02:04.19mafmand OGRE was something in between by the time, but also trying to get into the console market
02:04.24brlcadyeah, I looked into integrating OSG into OGRE as a scene graph manager, to get the best of both .. but there's a lot of cleanup needed to maintain that sort of integration
02:04.57brlcadyeah, we don't need/want a "game engine" really -- there are aspects of a CAD interface that are drasticly different
02:05.03mafmI think that OGRE is more close in spirit to OSG, with also one or more "game engine" wrappers
02:05.21mafmcode-wise I think that OGRE and OSG are very good and better than CS
02:05.37brlcadlike you can't/don't want to run the graphics update loop as fast as possible, many cad models are how many seconds per frame
02:06.11mafm:)
02:06.27brlcadI love the CS devs, but really don't want to deal with a left-handed coordinate system
02:06.28mafmbut I don't know if they changed much lately
02:06.31brlcadz is up, dammit ;)
02:06.57mafm:D
02:07.58mafmhmm, I cannot find this info in the FAQs or anything -- currently who's running your project? some company? interested individuals only? foundation?
02:08.28mafmor still some army dept.?
02:08.42brlcaddeveloped predominantly by interested individuals via open source and development is still funded by ARL too
02:09.19brlcadall as open source
02:09.23mafmand is it your 1st year at SoC?
02:09.34brlcadnot my first year, but first year for brl-cad
02:11.03mafmah
02:11.22mafmit's because the info is clear and very... explanatory?
02:11.35brlcadhm?
02:12.17mafmhmm, don't know how to say it
02:12.40mafmit's like... a very good impression for the students to see your site
02:12.49brlcadpues digalo en español :)
02:12.59brlcadah, thanks
02:13.12mafmway better than many projects which already have been in past editions
02:13.26mafm:D
02:13.49mafmdo you understand spanish?
02:14.50brlcadyes
02:15.46mafmare you from latin-america or something? :)
02:16.37brlcadgetting rusty as the years go by, se me ha olvidado bastante .. but I used to be perfectly fluent, crecí en panamá
02:18.25mafmheh
02:18.32mafmnot bad at all
02:18.40mafmyou even put the accents
02:19.35mafmso in which projects were you mentor last/past years?
02:19.51brlcadi'm also the admin for bzflag
02:21.16brlcadwe do more group mentoring than 1-1 (same for BRL-CAD) so everyone shares mentoring responsibilities regardless of who is assigned
02:21.34mafmahm
02:22.51mafmbtw, I was confuded several times with bzflag and brlcad because of the similar name and favicons of the webpages.. I bet that you copied it :P
02:23.18brlcadi share data between the two frequently :)
02:23.39brlcadtanks and tanks
02:23.50brlcadtanks for fun and tanks for real
02:25.01mafmis there any direct relationship between the two projects? like bzflag using brlcad libraries or so
02:25.23brlcadnope
02:25.32brlcadonly direct relationship is my status with both
02:26.30mafm:)
02:26.47brlcadthe rest of the dev teams really don't overlap
02:27.20mafmand as mentor of past years, do you notice some difference in the applications? I heard that there were less this year, I think that it was in #gsoc channel
02:28.37brlcadyeah, there is a massive difference this year
02:29.18brlcadwhich bodes well for those that get involved and submit before monday (especially if there's not an extension)
02:31.43mafmthere was something about an extension in the channel topic, but they didn't say exactly how much
02:32.19mafmthe only concrete fact that I saw was with X.org, that by yesterday they only had 1 application :D
02:32.19brlcadit entirely depends how many submissions there are by monday
02:32.40mafmmy last years organization was no accepted this year, so I can't really compare
02:33.01mafmyear's*, not*
02:33.12brlcadahh
02:34.17brlcadthat's a shame for aqsis
02:34.40mafmyep
02:35.04mafmand it's strange, considering that the two of us accepted finished successfully
02:35.28mafmand I think that the other candidate got a job at Dreamworks or something like that :)
02:35.38brlcadeither the admins/mentors didn't do something well, outright made a major mistake, or simply just didn't make the cut
02:35.47brlcadleslie had a hell of a time with the cuts
02:36.03brlcadthere were even more big-name orgs applying this year
02:36.56mafmcut means... where to draw the line for the ones accepted?
02:38.31mafmI think that my main mentor forgot to fill in necessary information in time at least once, and things like that
02:38.40brlcadyeah
02:38.54brlcadah, yeah.. that's a huge no no
02:39.25brlcadthat's not only a failure of the mentor but of the org admin (and the org backup admin)
02:41.29mafmalso after the first two weeks or so I spent more time with the backup mentor than with the supposed mentor :D
02:42.05mafmhe said often that he was a disaster of a mentor
02:42.07brlcadinteresting -- aqsis wasn't/isn't multithreaded?
02:42.58mafmwasn't and isn't, they didn't show much interest to integrate my branch after finishing
02:43.08brlcadhum, why is that?
02:43.41mafmI'm not really sure
02:44.02brlcaddid you not work with their devs?
02:44.39mafmeven when I was starting the project some of them (especially the leader) was already working in a branch which was supposed to tackle performance issues
02:45.15mafmso if that branch was to be merged my branch would be mostly obsolete
02:45.32mafmI think that they didn't get far with the branch after all
02:45.33brlcadwho is the lead?
02:45.40mafmPaul Gregory
02:46.19mafmand I offered myself to integrate at least the parts of cleanup necessary for my project
02:46.45mafmeliminating unnecessary statics, globals and things like that
02:47.19mafmbut they weren't very supportive and I started to work in other things
02:48.00mafmI'm still in their channel and in the mailing lists, but I don't follow the current activities very closely
02:49.28brlcadweren't supportive because of the other branch? communication problems? something else?
02:49.55mafmalso there was a limitation to how many threads could take advantage of the available data
02:50.38mafmbecause of the design of many core parts of the renderer, that even my mentor in the last days was failing to understand
02:51.48mafmso the high-level design that he had in mind didn't fit with the way that the rendered worked
02:52.22mafmbut well, I think that most of my code was worth if only for the cleanup, elimination of globals, const safeness
02:52.49mafmand the supportiveness that you ask, I'm not really sure, I never feel very comfortable in the channel
02:53.17mafmmaybe communication problems, they're mostly people from UK who even have presential meetings very often
02:54.39mafmnot that they were rude or anything, but I didn't feel as well as with other teammates and projects where I participate
02:55.04brlcadfair enough
02:55.43brlcadwould be useful to hear abou the project from your mentor or the admin's perspective too, just to get a feel for what things might be like for us
02:55.45mafmthis year I didn't even bother to send proposals to some projects because of that
02:56.37mafmhmm, well, they're often in #aqsis every day, or the working days at least
02:56.48brlcadi mean, it is water under the bridge -- history, but interesting to see how others are operating
02:56.58mafmthe mentor was minty77 and the backup and leader prgregory
02:58.12brlcadthanks!
02:58.13mafmbut minty77 is away most of the time and pgregory usually leaves at 16h UTC, so you might have to wake up early :)
02:58.32mafmmaybe they have other times during weekends...
02:59.19brlcadnot a big deal
02:59.55brlcadmore important is your application on its own compared to the others we get, number of slots, etc
02:59.58mafmhttp://wiki.aqsis.org/dev/soc_multithreading
03:00.12mafmthat's a summary and a detailed log at the bottom
03:00.51brlcadnow if you were interested in doing something loosely related -- we do parallel quite wonderfully already, but distributed has long been a weakness
03:01.41brlcadwe have a distributed rendering system, but it's all set up manually -- something like mpi would be interesting if made transparent
03:02.33brlcador even a non-mpi approach, but something that's been talked about in the past
03:03.48mafmhmm
03:04.03mafmI'm still reading your acceptance docs with all this chatting
03:04.10mafmand it's 4am here :D
03:04.30mafmare you going to be around tomorrow? because at this time I don't think very clearly
03:09.40brlcadyep
03:09.48brlcadis here every day
03:10.21brlcadand barring meetings, food, and workouts, I'm almost on-line all day every day too
03:11.07mafmat what time do you get up, with UTC difference? :D
03:11.27mafmlives in UTC, very easy for him :P
03:14.32brlcadi literally have a random schedule
03:15.05mafmok
03:15.50mafmI'll be back in around 12 hours or so, and then we can discuss more about the distributed thing, or otherwither the first idea :)
03:16.11brlcadjust as common to find me at just about any time of day/night except maybe UTC 800-1200 .. being the closest to a sleeping window
03:16.30mafm:D
03:16.45mafmfine
03:16.58mafmso see you tomorrow then
03:17.07mafmgood night all!
03:17.08brlcadwhichever one you do decide on, looking forward to seeing it ;)
03:17.11brlcadcya
03:21.22brlcadlikes the log idea
03:36.47yukonbobreads sb
03:40.07brlcadgoes to get some food
03:47.18yukonbobgood hunting
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04:50.11starseekergrowls in frustration - the Rosin paper seems to have an equation for a and b that gives something related to the values I need but not the ACTUAL values I need
04:50.39starseekerMaxima and the C code now agree, but they're both not giving what I know I need.
04:53.05CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30595 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Equations now calculating something other than nan, and answers agree with Maxima's evaluation of the formula, but still not returning the original parameters
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14:13.32mafmhi
14:16.39brlcadhowdy
14:19.03mafmup only for a brief while but already tired :)
14:19.23mafmand you?
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14:37.46mafmhi Elperion
14:38.22Elperionhi
14:48.29mafmbrlcad: did you talk with aqsis people already?
14:56.35brlcadmafm: nope
14:57.47brlcadlike I said last night, not a priority or driving decision factor in the least (you're held to your own merits with us, not them), might talk to them at some point just for some perspective
14:58.06brlcadnot tired, been coding for hours :)
14:59.56mafmhuh
15:00.10mafmI think that I need a coffee, too sleepy
15:00.22mafmGoogle, you're stealing my sleep!
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18:47.16mafmquiet in here today :)
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20:02.36brlcadmafm: yeah, it comes and goes -- depends who all is busy
20:02.53brlcadlot of the devs don't make it into irc, they lurk on the mailing list
20:03.36alex_jonibrlcad: does that work ok?
20:06.07brlcadalex_joni: does what work ok?
20:06.18alex_jonithat devels lurk only on the mailing list
20:06.32alex_joniI'm not sure I could do that..
20:07.14brlcadyou certainly don't have to :)
20:07.23alex_joniI'm quite fond of IRC and discussing things with fellow developers in real-time
20:07.28brlcadlikewise
20:07.33alex_joniit's way nicer to argue over IRC than on the mailing list :D
20:07.37brlcadI tend to drag them into irc when I can
20:20.54mafmyou evil being! :)
20:21.32mafmhmm, I have to go for a while (90 mins or so), but maybe when I'm back we can discuss about your distributed thing and I could make the proposal at last?
20:29.40brlcadsure
20:33.28mafmgood
20:33.47mafmanother night without sleeping properly, sounds thrilling :)
20:35.49brlcadexcellent
20:36.00brlcadthere's plenty of time to sleep when you're dead :)
20:36.11spike_hey guys
20:36.27yukonbobpeeks in
20:36.38spike_so i was looking into the blender converter for GSoC, but it seems like Collada would be way more useful
20:36.49spike_that and blender is a very very weird app
20:37.27mafmthe bad thing is that if you don't sleep too much when alive, you're most likely to get to the dead-sleep phase sooner :D
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20:40.20spike_does anyone know much about collada? like the collada dom or fcollada library?
20:41.20brlcada fair bit, what of it?
20:42.30brlcadspike_: any converter (or sets of converters) would be a valid project
20:42.37brlcadcollada isn't already on the list?
20:42.45spike_well i'm fairly new to it, was just curious what would be involved in writing something to convert its data into data brlcad can use
20:43.30brlcadit's a content format, not a solid modeling or CAD format so there are a variety of import issues, but it's not a hard converter to implement
20:43.35spike_i figure none of the structs are compatable, so my job would be basically to create some temporary structs to grab the data from collada into a format that brlcad could understand
20:43.47spike_yeah i didnt think so, since both or open source
20:43.55spike_x3d would be hell imo
20:44.22brlcadnah, x3d is about the same
20:44.34spike_interesting...
20:44.41brlcadx3d, vrml, collada -- all have a lot of overlap
20:45.30spike_well i was looking on the wiki and it seems there are already apps to put a .blend into the collada format
20:46.01spike_so i scratched the idea of a blender converter since this seemed more important
20:47.34spike_for a proposal how in depth would i need to get? i dont know what else to specify besides the fact that i'd be writing a converter
20:47.46brlcadapps for blender?
20:47.53brlcadnobody has proposed that as an idea
20:48.17brlcadblender wouldn't be high on my list -- those are pretty much listed in order of priority
20:48.26brlcads/priority/general usefulness/
20:48.31spike_yeah i noticed
20:48.55brlcadah, collada is on the list
20:49.01spike_yes its at the top somewhere
20:49.22brlcadyep, probably on par with x3d
20:49.43spike_im trying to figure out what i'd want to specify on the proposal though; i mean i dont know too much about the collada format as of now but i would know it like the back of my hand if i were to try to work with it
20:52.24brlcadsure
20:53.43spike_guess i'll just write up that then
20:53.59alex_jonibrlcad: where's the list again?
20:54.38alex_jonin/m found it
20:54.44spike_bbl guys
20:55.43alex_jonibrlcad: oh, .u3d is even after blender :(
21:10.12brlcadmafm: for what it's worth, things are exceptionally different here with regards to project management
21:10.59mafmbrlcad: sorry, I don't follow?
21:11.25brlcadprocess overhead, formalities
21:11.53mafmah
21:12.06mafmyou mean for the meeting or the timing issue with the branches?
21:12.14brlcadi mean in general
21:14.33mafm:)
21:15.03mafmthe bureocracy isn't much in the project I think, but well
21:15.24mafmI think that each main devel was busy in some other branch during winter
21:16.09mafmso it's difficult to focus in the overall project if everybody is busy in their piece of terrain
21:16.22mafmit feels that the developement is a bit slow, I think
21:18.48brlcadwell that can happen in any project
21:18.57brlcaddevs tend to focus on their niche
21:19.03brlcador a given interest
21:19.25brlcadespecially when there is so much to do and only so many devs/time to do it
21:27.42pacman87is there a general interface/container for access to primitive functions (the g_*.c files)
21:28.33pacman87so you can call rt_*_shot() without knowing what the * is?
21:29.32mafmbrlcad: :)
21:29.43mafmok, still heading home now, be back in 1h or so...
21:32.01mafmlater!
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21:55.59hippieindamakin8hey guys
21:56.04hippieindamakin8hello brlcad
21:58.56brlcadhello
22:00.16hippieindamakin8how many applications have you recieved so far ?
22:04.16pacman87add one to that number (just hit submit on mine) ;)
22:04.45yukonbob1 meeeellion applications
22:04.59pacman87brlcad: is there a general interface/container for access to primitive functions (the g_*.c files), so you can call rt_*_shot() without knowing what the * is?
22:06.05pacman87yukonbob: do you have an "off by .99999e6 error"?
22:06.43brlcadhippieindamakin8: i've told you several times now to stop worrying about that
22:06.48brlcadworry about your submission
22:06.58brlcadpacman87: cool
22:07.00brlcadlooks
22:07.02hippieindamakin8:) i have 3 deadlines tommorow :(
22:07.42hippieindamakin8made a running dog robot as a term project
22:21.32hippieindamakin8hey brlcad i would also suggest another idea
22:22.01brlcadcompetition is going to be pretty tough from the looks of things, even with low submission rates
22:22.02hippieindamakin8it would be better if u have one interface rather than having 2 of them ..
22:22.36hippieindamakin8smthing like kate or dolphin with kde 4.0
22:22.49brlcadgiven I don't think we'll accept more than 2-4 students
22:23.05hippieindamakin8u have a drafting space in the upper frame and a terminal in the lower frame of the UI
22:23.29hippieindamakin8oh yeah u said that before..
22:24.08hippieindamakin8well i just returned from my lab :P and was worried about my grades a bit too :D and hence put that question.. nvm
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22:53.13hippieindamakin8hey daytona
22:53.43Daytonahi
22:54.18brlcadhowdy Daytona
22:54.34brlcadhappy super fun sunday to you
22:54.35Daytonahello
22:54.54Daytonasuper fun??
22:55.00brlcad:)
22:58.06Daytonabrlcad: just to keep you informed, I have a week in Daytona Beach scheduled (leaving on April 11)
22:58.59DaytonaIf there is no extension for GSoc applications, that should work fine
22:59.23Daytonabut if there is an extension, I think it might interfere a bit
23:01.03brlcadno problem
23:01.26brlcadthe biggest step will be ranking the applications once that opens up
23:01.38DaytonaI think April 11 is the mentor assignment deadline
23:01.38brlcadjust to see what people are willing to mentor
23:01.50brlcadas I cannot actually assign mentors, you have to say "I'm willing to mentor this"
23:02.11brlcadand then the actual scoring to narrow down selections
23:02.30DaytonaOK, I can probably access the internet from the beach :-)
23:02.42brlcadhopefully we can narrow down selections on monday regardless of any extension
23:03.15DaytonaYes, I expect all serious applicants will be in by then
23:03.18brlcadwith only 2-4 slots, and the few on the mailing list that haven't submitted yet, there's probably 2-4 good candidates that could be chosen regardless of an extension
23:04.14DaytonaWhen do you find out how many slots we get?
23:05.03brlcadapril 14th
23:06.07DaytonaOh.., so we score, select, assign mentors, then find out how many?
23:06.18brlcadyes
23:06.35brlcadwe place an upper limit / desired count on the slots, then rank them all numerically
23:06.58brlcadthen we get something at or below our requested count
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23:07.40mafmhi
23:07.41brlcadso depending how we rank and who all is willing to mentor what, I see requesting either 3 or 4, then we likely get anywhere from 2-4
23:07.51brlcadhello mafm
23:07.55DaytonaOK
23:08.27Daytonahi, mafm
23:09.45brlcadnice to see a stronger submissions finally get added
23:10.51yukonbobwhen is the ranked-list due to Google?
23:11.26Daytonayes, I hadn't seen the latest till just now
23:12.29brlcadby this time last year, we would have been looking at 15 like that .. that's what everyone is concerned about with the deadline :)
23:12.44brlcadyukonbob: by the 11th
23:16.03yukonbobis "negative object segment detection" that bug manifested in my hub rendering?
23:16.05mafmconcerned about the lack of applications?
23:16.42brlcadnot really
23:16.52brlcadit's just drastically different
23:17.10brlcadyukonbob: yeppers it sure is
23:17.30brlcadnice that you keyed on it :)
23:17.54yukonbob;)
23:18.12brlcadnobody proposing it so far though
23:18.24yukonbobgah!!! I need to start a campaign!!
23:18.37yukonbob(or do it myself out of the GSoC context)
23:18.42Daytonabrlcad: is that the bug that you and I have discussed several times, regarding boolweave?
23:18.45brlcadyep
23:19.06brlcadprobably could be better-worded, but nobody would likely understand "fix boolweave" :)
23:19.38yukonbobwaves to Daytona
23:19.53yukonbobI don't see you in #brlcad often (that I know of), but see your commit msgs :)
23:19.53Daytonahi, yukonbob
23:20.32DaytonaI haven't been here much, but trying to be here a bit more to listen to GSoC discussions
23:21.08brlcadthinks Daytona should try out screen :)
23:21.30brlcadscreen+irssi ftw
23:21.41DaytonaI thought you would be impressed that I moved up to irssi :-)
23:21.47brlcadis :)
23:22.34DaytonaI'll give it a try during a quiet time
23:23.13brlcadyou basically run it on/from a machine that isn't powered off and it provides a persistent connection that you can detach from and reattach to easily
23:24.00brlcadscreen .. then run irssi -- ctrl-a d to detach, screen -r to reattach
23:24.24DaytonaWhat I would like is to get irssi to beep when my nick is used
23:24.45brlcaddoes it already hilight at least?
23:24.50DaytonaI found someone's settings to do that, but it doesn't work
23:25.04brlcadyou can set hilights with /hilight keyword
23:25.05DaytonaYeah, I changed the hilight color
23:25.37brlcadthen /last -hilight  to see the last hilights
23:26.23brlcadshould work with /set bell_beeps ON
23:26.46Daytonais on
23:26.53yukonbob"beeps" are a function of irssi settings combined with screen settings combined with terminal settings -- not always easy to setup :P
23:27.02brlcadthen of course depending on your terminal allowing audible bell
23:27.49brlcadwhat does  /set beep_msg_level  report?
23:28.12Daytona<PROTECTED>
23:28.40brlcadhuh, it actually has an equal?
23:28.46brlcadshouldn't
23:29.05DaytonaThat is the setting that someone claimed would do the beeping I wanted
23:29.07brlcadshouldn't matter I'd think, but maybe causing a problem
23:29.26brlcadtry just: /set beep_msg_level MSGS NOTICES DCC DCCMSGS HILIGHT
23:29.51brlcadDaytona: then see if this hilights
23:29.52mafmdoes your terminal beep really? :)
23:30.15brlcadin screen, it'll generate a wuff wuff message by default
23:30.44yukonbob^A-g will toggle between visual/audible beep
23:30.53DaytonaLOL, ^G does not beep in my terminal :-)
23:31.10yukonbobrather: ^A-^G will toggle between visual/audible beep
23:31.32brlcadirssi probably captures it
23:31.39brlcadyukonbob: heh, thx
23:32.01yukonboband in irssi "/beep" will send a beep to the channel
23:32.11brlcadah, good test
23:32.15yukonbob(like I've been doing here a couple times... and one more for good measure)
23:32.29Daytonano beeps heard here
23:32.40yukonbob(I just sent 3)
23:32.53brlcadmaybe your terminal isn't doing anything with bells
23:33.29Daytonalooks like "terminal bell: is enabled
23:34.27DaytonaOh well, no big deal
23:34.30brlcadhum
23:34.39brlcadwhich terminal?
23:35.04yukonbobDaytona: are you on a Mac?
23:35.17Daytonano, I dell laptop
23:35.22Daytonarunning ubuntu
23:35.54yukonbobxterm, or variant?
23:35.57Daytonarunning gnome-terminal
23:36.43yukonbobsends 3 more beeps, heads back to report writing for a bit
23:36.52yukonbob(ciao, folks, chat later) :)
23:37.02Daytonabye yukonbob
23:37.23mafmgnome-terminal? uh, probably they won't let you to configure that
23:37.36mafmit's too dangerous for users to mess with those things :)
23:37.51mafmbye yukonbob
23:37.59hippieindamakin8u can configure gnome terminal
23:39.47DaytonaI see a profile editor, and "terminal bell" is enabled
23:41.21hippieindamakin8i love the terminal bell :D
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23:43.19hippieindamakin8ppl on Gnome use "Tilda" and the ppl on KDE use "yakuake" :)
23:43.34andrecastelohi
23:43.48hippieindamakin8hey andrecastelo
23:43.52andrecastelohey hippieindamakin8i
23:44.07andrecastelois photon mapping an option for gsoc ??
23:44.15brlcadwonders if /etc/input has anything interesting for Daytona
23:44.26DaytonaI just checked, and there is a bug report titled "terminal bell does not beep" in ununtu :-)
23:44.41brlcadandrecastelo: "global illumination" whether via photon mapping or otherwise is an option
23:44.43mafmhey andrecastelo, I see that you're following my advice :)
23:44.56andrecastelohehehe hey mafm, yes indeed
23:45.12brlcadwe actually already have an implementation of photon mapping, but it's shoehorned in and really hard to use (and buggy)
23:45.30mafmshould get extra points for bringing more people to BRL-CAD :P
23:46.03andrecastelobrlcad: is fixing it and making it more functional a gsoc apropriate project?? :)
23:46.23andrecastelo(maybe it's almost functional, so wouldn't be 3 months thing)
23:47.00brlcadsure would be, as would be enhancing it .. non-trivial
23:47.24brlcadlikewise, implementing a new global illumination renderer that does it's own path-tracing using our librt
23:48.10brlcadwould have to show competence in that area and come up with a good proposal
23:50.54andrecastelobrlcad: well, i don't have experience in that area, perhaps i should look for another project
23:51.20andrecastelo(but i do have some understanding about global illumination and photon mapping and the motivation to study it deeper)
23:52.38brlcadandrecastelo: that would make things a lot harder -- there is definitely room to learn some of what is needed, but implementing either would take some time
23:53.43brlcada lot of the high-level background info about path tracing or photon mapping or radiosity, etc, can be picked up in an afternoon of reading
23:54.05andrecastelobut the implementation is the problem, right ???
23:54.20brlcaddepends entirely on you and how quickly you learn :)
23:55.20andrecasteloit's comforting to know that :)
23:55.50andrecastelothe photon mapping implementation is written in C ?
23:56.57brlcad*completing* the task isn't the driving factor for acceptance if you intended to work long-term on the project (beyond gsoc), but you would have to instill confidence that you can in fact complete the task and make good progress over the summer
23:57.04brlcadyes, entirely in C
23:58.56brlcadsrc/liboptical/photonmap.c and src/rt have most of it
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080331

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080331

00:00.15andrecastelothanks, brlcad, i'll do some research, take a look at the code, write the application and see how it turns out ;)
00:00.24brlcadsounds good
00:15.14mafmso brlcad, are you available now to talk about that?
00:15.27brlcadprobably
00:16.22mafmgood
00:16.53mafmso what about the distributed approach, can you please elaborate or link to some document?
00:17.16brlcadwell we have a raytracer in brl-cad
00:17.19brlcadlots of them, actually
00:17.34brlcadall based around our librt ray-trace library
00:18.49brlcadwe support parallel ray-tracing pretty pervasively
00:19.14brlcad'rt' is the main ray-tracer
00:19.42brlcadwe also have distributed ray-tracing via 'remrt' (remote rt) and 'rtsrv' (remote compute daemons)
00:20.30brlcadremrt and rtsrv basically set up manual communication pipes and negotiate packets as needed, and you have to specify all machines you want to work on
00:21.25brlcadwhat we don't do easily though is 'automatic distributed' using something like mpi, pvm, or grid interfaces
00:21.44brlcadit would be nice if rt inherintly had distributed capacities
00:22.45mafmare the computations heavy enough that it compensates to distribute them via network?
00:22.50brlcadso that's the basic idea, either adding the functionality to rt or giving remrt/rtsrv major updates to improve them
00:23.18brlcadthat depends entirely on the model being rendered
00:23.41brlcadsome are blazingly fast, others swimmingly slow
00:23.58mafmslow as in minutes?
00:24.19brlcadanywhere from subsecond to hours
00:24.51brlcadso it really needs to auto-detect and load-balance accordingly, know when to farm out the job and when not to
00:25.17brlcadthe models might be just a few k or might be several GB in size too
00:26.17mafmtypical grid jobs, for scientific grids that I'm used to, usually take hours/days
00:26.31brlcadthe two extremes where we usually want distributed are when someone's making a movie and rendering thousands of frames or someone rendering a really high-quality detailed complex model rendering
00:26.44mafmand in most them the turnaround time for "hello world" is like 3-5 minutes :D
00:27.14mafmso the idea would be to run them withing clusters I guess, with LAN setups?
00:27.28brlcadpretty much
00:28.25mafmI have programmed in PVM a bit, only at univ for test programs
00:28.29brlcadas well as loosely connected LAN-based setups over slow connections (a typical office with maybe 10-100 high-end workstations available to run compute nodes with an mpi config for example)
00:28.45mafmand in MPI at work but only for testing, no real applications
00:29.16mafmanyway the theory I think that I'm OK with it
00:29.25brlcadMPI or a solid grid framework would probably be ideal
00:30.06mafmbut I guess that for doing that from a ray tracer, I would have to have solid knowledge of the techniques of raytracing too?
00:30.52brlcadnot necessarily
00:30.59brlcadat least not beyond understanding the data model
00:31.17brlcadray-tracing generally requires the entire model for example since rays can diverge in any direction
00:32.00brlcadso you either have some sort of master dispatch and distribute portions of data or distribute all the data to all nodes and dispatch rays/scanlines or some hybrid
00:33.31mafmsay that you want to render a village
00:33.47mafmthe input are the solids represenging houses and so on
00:33.59mafmthe output would be what, just the 2D image?
00:34.20brlcadyep
00:34.27brlcador a series of 2D images in the case of an animation
00:35.19mafmsay that you want an animation
00:35.28andrecastelohey brlcad, the download page is a little off
00:35.55andrecasteloit points to the 7.10.2 release (at least the source)
00:35.56mafmthe output or intermediate calculations of one frame could be used for the second? (similar to what MPEG do)
00:36.32brlcadandrecastelo: thanks
00:36.40brlcadit needs to be wikified
00:36.50brlcador made a module that auto-points to the latest
00:37.05brlcadmafm: yes
00:37.18brlcadrt already has inherint support for multiframe rendering
00:37.33andrecastelo(also, if i want to check the code, i get the 7.12.0 source, right?? how hard is it to compile in windows?? )
00:37.40brlcadyou feed it transactioned command lists and it deals with what needs to be reprepped accordingly
00:38.00brlcadandrecastelo: there's an msvc studio project in misc -- should be click and run
00:38.25andrecastelogreat, thanks
00:39.29mafmif frames are interdependent, that turns it a bit difficult it seems
00:39.42brlcadthey're independent
00:40.09brlcadit's just you can speed things up if you don't need to reprep, so rt does so accordingly
00:40.52mafmwell yes, but if rendering them sequentially is much less effort than the sum() of separate efforts, the speedup of distributing it is not very big
00:41.05mafmwith aqsis there was a similar problem
00:41.19mafmbuckets (portions of the image) were in principle independent
00:41.35mafmbut constructing the octree was very expensive
00:42.23mafmso if you didn't take advantage of that, and construct the octree from scratch each time, the result was that it was more expensive when using several threads
00:42.56mafmI think that there could be similar problems in brlcad, or you already have that part sorted out?
00:43.09brlcadyou're thinking thread-level, we have that
00:43.26brlcadparallel is a done deal
00:43.36brlcaddistributed even works, it can just be heavily improved
00:44.15mafmI know the difference between theads and distributed, it was an example, to be extrapolated :)
00:44.26brlcadso yeah, buckets of an impage are independent -- but the model itself isn't
00:44.30hippieindamakin8andrecastelo  and mafm u guys  might be interested in this http://www.siggraph.org/education/materials/HyperGraph/raytrace/rtrace0.htm
00:44.45andrecastelohippieindamakin8: thanks!
00:44.50brlcadmafm: sure, but the latency concerns between parallel and distributed are huge
00:45.03hippieindamakin8u wanted to know the raytracing fundamentals rt :) np
00:45.22brlcadthat's why the real driver is big render jobs where we know implicitly that it's going to be a benefit (huge render or tons of frames)
00:45.31andrecasteloalso - is a kd tree implemented??
00:45.56brlcadeffectively, we have a hybrid
00:46.04mafmI see
00:47.16brlcadbrl-cad's rt is actually the first parallel distributed ray-tracer (per all published references), an early second-generation ray-tracer
00:48.02mafmthat's remrt+rtsrv?
00:48.10brlcadthe distributed portion, yes
00:48.11mafmor the librt?
00:48.30mafmI mean, which parts would I have to modify?
00:48.59brlcaddepends entirely on whether the idea is to improve remrt usability or add inherint distributed support to rt :)
00:49.04brlcadthere are merits to both
00:51.11brlcadcould read some of the published papers, this relates specifically to brl-cad:  http://ftp.arl.army.mil/~mike/papers/95cadsymp/realtime.html
00:51.14mafmboth them are in C it seems (browsing the repositories)
00:52.35brlcadmore references in http://graphics.cs.uni-sb.de/Publications/2001/star.pdf
00:52.43brlcadyes, 90% of the sources are in C
00:53.09brlcadonly the new BREP code is in C++ plus a few modules, along with the tcl/tk modeler sources
00:53.31brlcadrt stays C, remrt could be redesigned
00:53.31mafmis there a "central" source file in librt where the high level stuff is implemented?
00:53.51brlcadwhat high-level stuff?
00:54.17brlcadhigh-level ray dispatching is in the binary front-end, src/rt src/remrt
00:55.09mafmI mean an important file in librt
00:55.21mafmto see how scary is the code :D
00:56.29mafmint is_hackers_night( struct timeval *tv );
00:56.33mafm:D
00:56.48brlcadyou wouldn't really be modifying anything in librt, at least I'd be surprised if you need to
00:57.50brlcadotherwise, some of the core is in shoot.c, bool.c
00:58.18brlcadyou really should start from srt/rt though -- librt is the library itself, even parallelism happens higher up
00:59.16brlcadsrc/rt/view.c do.c and most importantly worker.c
01:00.06hippieindamakin8librt is all about the geometry representation and manipulations/transformations mostly
01:01.55mafmok, looking at those :)
01:01.58hippieindamakin8brlcad .. btw wat is the function of this server ? rtserver
01:04.24Daytonalibrtserver is a C library that is loaded by a Java class to provide raytracing services for a Java App
01:07.28hippieindamakin8ohh
01:07.42hippieindamakin8tx :)
01:08.32mafmhmm, don't know brlcad
01:08.59mafmdoes this have more priority than the other idea?
01:09.09Daytonahippieindamakin8: If you have some ideas on how to improve that code, that would be great!!!
01:09.11mafmI haven't even seen it in the Project Ideas page
01:09.13hippieindamakin8daytona can u suggest me an appilcation
01:10.36hippieindamakin8:) i just opened it  daytona :P i wanted to apply for this OO API project so was going through the places where there is a possibility of rendering some geometry :)
01:10.57hippieindamakin8as i get more familiar with brlcad i sure will :)
01:10.59brlcadmafm: like I said -- a really solid application for any of the ideas trumps the priority aspect
01:12.09Daytonahippieindamakin8: The librtserver is just used in a JNI wrapper
01:13.17hippieindamakin8ohh there is this jade.jar in the src :) now i am connecting pieces
01:13.35hippieindamakin8in case it is connected to this
01:14.08Daytonathe librtserver and the jbrlcad are not connected
01:14.57hippieindamakin8nono.. in the src there is this folder called java
01:15.05hippieindamakin8i aint talking about jbrlcad
01:15.11Daytonajade.jar is a units and measurments jar (now replaced by jscience)
01:15.50hippieindamakin8sorry.. :P i am mistaken.. i wanted to talk about brlcad server.java
01:16.11hippieindamakin8sorry.. it was a long time :P
01:16.32mafmbrlcad: hmm, honestly, I'm not talking into getting into GSoC with BRL-CAD for being a higher priority project
01:17.01brlcadno comprendo
01:17.02mafmhmm, let me think about how to explain it... (I'm a bit tired at the moment :) )
01:17.11hippieindamakin8~/brlcad7-10-2/src/java/mil/army/arl/brlcad
01:18.43Daytonalooks like there is almost nothing in that class
01:19.10hippieindamakin8ya i shalll go through that :)
01:20.50Daytonathe jbrlcad has a bit more functionality :-)
01:21.27mafm<brlcad> mafm: like I said -- a really solid application for any of the ideas trumps the priority aspect
01:21.46mafmwhen I'm asking about the priority, I don't mean to take it as an advantage
01:22.10mafmI mean if you suggest that because of my relation with distributed computing at work or what
01:22.28mafmor if you came up with that for other reasons
01:22.48brlcadyes, I only suggested it as a consideration because of your background
01:23.05brlcadotherwise, no different than then other listed ideas
01:23.12mafmyesterday we were talking about other proposals, it's you who started to talk about this one (IIRC, I was a bit sleepy)
01:23.59brlcadthere was someone (a student) that worked on an mpi layer for rt a couple years ago too, for several months, but they were learning everything from scratch and never finished anything more than job propagation
01:24.36mafmaha
01:24.58mafmso one of the reasons is that maybe I see it as a more doable proposal than the other one?
01:25.18brlcadright, and I firmly believe that you need to be excited about the work --figured with your background that distributed might be of interest, if not then screw it
01:26.20mafmwell, certainly distributed computing it is interesting, but I enjoy many areas
01:27.18mafmworking with a 3D engine to communicate with commands with a remote server is also another, making a multiplayer game it's similar in concept, I think
01:27.51mafmso probably this project would have more chances to succeed
01:27.54brlcadsome loose similarities, yes
01:29.38mafmbut I also understand that maybe it would be more valuable for you to make my application for other project, because is less common
01:30.02mafmso if I was accepted and finish the program, there would be more chances for other people to do that OpenGL GU
01:30.03mafmGUI
01:30.04brlcadwhat's less common?
01:30.23brlcadah, yes -- it certainly has higher impact potential
01:30.30mafmthe knowledge of MPI/distributed stuff
01:30.36brlcadit's also one that will be more critiqued design-wise :)
01:30.57mafmso in the case that I would go ahead, I would be beaten? :)
01:32.15brlcadnope
01:33.45mafmgood to know :)
01:33.47mafmwell, I see two problems then:
01:34.03mafm1) it's more difficult for me to come up with a plan,
01:34.21mafm2) it's a more risky project I think, there are more chances of failure
01:34.43brlcadwhether you're not accepted is dependent on the quality of your application (compared to quality of others), number of slots we accept (just 2-4), the topic being proposed, as well as any details about yourself and your abilities
01:34.49mafmoh, and 3) I don't have the infrastructure to test the distributed rendering
01:35.01brlcadokay, so forget it :)
01:35.07brlcadnot pressing the idea on you :)
01:35.14brlcadpick whatever suits you
01:37.48mafmI don't feel pressed really, I just want to make explicit that it's more risky, in the case that I would be accepted and go ahead, I think that it could fail more easily
01:38.06mafmand I don't know if you could provide the infrastruture or what?
01:38.40mafmwe have clusters (not very big) at my job, but they're in production and we cannot install new things
01:38.45brlcadheh, you're just saying all of the reasons for why you shouldn't submit it
01:38.51brlcadforget about it! :)
01:42.29mafmsighs
01:42.40mafmbtw, I could submit more than one proposal, you now :D
01:42.46brlcadthat you could
01:43.01brlcadbut better to focus on getting at least one really solid
01:43.19andrecastelohave you guys received lots of applications??
01:43.21brlcadi'd recommend doing one proposal and putting the extra effort on a better patch ..
01:43.34brlcadandrecastelo: not really
01:43.56andrecasteloand also - i see that you are part of the bzflags community as well, will you be a mentor both ??
01:44.04andrecastelobe a mentor in* both..
01:45.08brlcadi'm admin for both, I hope to actually *not* mentor for either (officially) if I can get away with it ... but then still mentoring as usual group-mentorshipwise
01:45.52brlcadif I do mentor, it's probably be for brl-cad
01:46.17andrecasteloi see
01:48.07mafmthere are no assigned/expected mentors yet, I guess?
01:48.21mafmbtw I hope that we have some extended period to submit the patch :)
01:48.49brlcadthere's about another week to submit a patch
01:52.44mafmah, good
01:53.52brlcadit will be required of any serious candidates
01:54.03brlcadi.e. any finalists for certain
01:54.33brlcadif someone can't make a basic patch out of a million line codebase, that bodes very poorly :)
01:58.40mafmsed -i 's/BRL-CAD/mafm-CAD/g' :)
01:58.56brlcadheh
01:59.14mafmthat'd be at least 1000 lines changed
02:00.09brlcadthat'd hit every file
02:00.16brlcadBRL-CAD is in the file header
02:00.18mafmbtw, now I should still submit the proposal to the mailing list, or in parallel, or what?
02:00.24brlcad"yes"
02:00.41brlcadcould give a summary to the mailing list
02:00.55brlcadthen extra detail to the wiki or as a submission
02:01.30mafmwhat if I paste the complete submission?
02:01.41mafmin the wiki or so
02:02.44brlcadyou can put whatever you like into the wiki
02:03.03brlcadgood place for full/more detail
02:04.07mafmgoing to sell his wikispace for Google ads :P
02:05.36andrecastelohey brlcad, i was looking at the TODO list and found this in the lower priority part:
02:05.37andrecastelo* center of presented area
02:05.49brlcadyes?
02:06.07andrecastelowhat is it exactly ??
02:06.13andrecastelo( http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/TODO )
02:06.32brlcadin a given 2D projection, where is the center of presented area
02:07.42andrecastelois it simple enough to implement as the required patch ??
02:07.43brlcadthat task really souldn't take more than a couple days at best
02:07.59brlcadit's possible .. a bit heavy for a patch, might take a day
02:08.17brlcad(i.e. a few hours)
02:08.45andrecastelohm i see..
02:10.28brlcadbut certainly would be impressive for a patch
02:10.52brlcadfolks for bz have already submitted patches that are actually harder
02:11.07mafmI think that my router will reconnect, be right back :D
02:11.14andrecasteloreally?? hmm..
02:11.19andrecastelowe have one week to deliver, right ?
02:11.26brlcadyep
02:11.38brlcadseriously though -- make the application itself good first :)
02:11.57brlcadthen work on the patch
02:12.02andrecastelohm ok.. will do
02:12.13andrecasteloanother thing
02:13.56andrecasteloi'm having a problem running the program.. tried compiling from source and at first i've got "Build: 133 succeeded, 1 failed.."
02:14.10andrecastelothen tried again and got " Build: 0 succeeded, 0 failed, 134 up-to-date, 0 skipped"
02:14.21andrecastelotried running and got some problem with libbu.dll
02:14.36brlcadmaybe that could be your patch ;)
02:14.47brlcada build system patch, figure out what went wrong
02:15.20*** join/#brlcad mafm_ (n=mafm@89-180-59-113.net.novis.pt)
02:16.41andrecastelohmm
02:16.41brlcadotherwise, that's not enough info to say anything useful, would have to know what failed, what the error was, maybe other factors
02:17.00andrecasteloyes, i was pasting it- http://rafb.net/p/61FfDf17.html
02:17.56brlcadit's trying to run asc2g to build our models and failing to find some library
02:18.13brlcadwas that the original 1 failed?
02:18.34andrecasteloit fails to find libbu.dll.. but it compiled this library fine
02:19.13brlcadso needs a path added to the library search paths
02:20.33andrecastelook, let me give it a try
02:23.42andrecastelothe library compiled fine, i guess it's just a path problem
02:26.30mafm_mafm: go away!
02:27.21Daytonahmm, two mafm's
02:27.37andrecastelobrlcad: http://rafb.net/p/jcpiTJ88.html
02:27.43mafm_Daytona: as if one was not enough!
02:27.49DaytonaLOL
02:29.00mafmthat'll show him :)
02:29.15andrecastelobrlcad: found the problem - http://rafb.net/p/5XE59Z48.html
02:29.43andrecasteloi guess brlcad is not portuguese-friendly ?
02:30.31brlcadhow so?
02:30.57brlcadit's failing because you don't have nsis installed -- that's used to build the installer
02:32.04andrecastelobrlcad: true, but technically it would go to another directory
02:32.42brlcadque?
02:33.47brlcadit'll go wherever it's configured to go
02:34.13andrecastelohm ok, i'll get nsis
02:36.14mafm"and that full nonexclusive copyright will be assigned." -- what does that mean, that we have to assign copyright as FSF requires for their projects?
02:39.18brlcadmafm: yeah, we use single-copyright
02:41.33andrecastelobrlcad: it's a minor bug perhaps concerning non-english windows
02:42.12andrecastelobrlcad: because english windows defaults installations to C:\Program files, and every other language version has its own "Program Files"
02:43.17brlcadandrecastelo: perhaps
02:43.21andrecastelobrlcad: i installed nsis to the default directory and the same problem occurred.. therefore we need to edit the correct file to use a "program files" system var
02:43.35brlcadyeah
02:44.06andrecastelobut what is the correct file ? :b
02:45.41andrecasteloi don't think there's a way to do that though
02:55.25mafmthe 3D engine to use is strongly preferred to be OGRE, anything, or not important to specify in the proposal?
02:56.08hippieindamakin8wat is it rt now ?
02:56.53mafmhippieindamakin8: that's a question for me?
02:57.12hippieindamakin8in general :)
02:57.49mafmthat's from the project ideas, to make an OpenGL-based GUI instead of MGED
02:58.01mafmand OGRE listed as possible one
02:58.56hippieindamakin8ohh ..
02:59.10hippieindamakin8yaya rt now everything is based on MGED
03:03.04brlcadmafm: for the submitter to decide really, from my own experience, testing, and connections, ogre really seems to be one of the best fits
03:04.43mafmwell, for me it's about the same if it's with CrystalSpace, OpenSceneGraph or OGRE
03:04.48brlcadbut it could just as easily be a java3d interface with the right submittions
03:05.01mafmI see OGRE or OSG more suited for BRL-CAD as we've talked yesterday
03:05.53mafmbut since for me it's about the same, it's better to let core developers decide I guess
03:07.57mafmso maybe I leave it open in the proposal and to be decided later?
03:08.26mafmbtw andrecastelo, I think that you maybe this proposal is also well suited for you
03:09.52andrecastelohmm
03:10.16andrecasteloi'm already studying the photonmap.c to see what has been done and what hasn't
03:12.05brlcadmafm: it could be decided later
03:13.12mafmanother thing is, what's the functionality to replicate? e.g. 20% of MGED?
03:13.16brlcadmore detail is generally better, but particularly if you don't have a strong justification then ogre would still be my preference as the one to start with (a LOT of time has already been spent evaluating the various options available)
03:13.50mafmor it's only the framework and the functionality to be filled later?
03:13.54brlcadyeah
03:14.22brlcadhaving a debug command console would be useful to have, logging services
03:14.35brlcadbut mostly the console
03:15.04brlcadability to get lists of geometry available, loading them, displaying various representations (wireframe, polygonal, etc)
03:18.10mafmloading them as in drawing a cube inside OGRE?
03:18.47mafmwith the vertex data coming from the server backend?
03:19.06brlcaddisplay lists, yes
03:19.45brlcadthere is a client/server protocol being developed (concurrently) that will manage the geometry itself
03:20.07brlcadthe client is a *thin* client, it just passes commands/events to the backend and gets stuff back
03:20.49mafmyep, but the client would have to convert the marshalled data to the 3d engine representation at list, right?
03:21.21mafmand the same to position the camera and things like that
03:26.26brlcadyep
03:26.48brlcadand/or make the protocol support reporting the data in the format that the engine requires
03:27.40brlcadcamera state management is predominantly a client issue
03:28.43mafmbrlcad: the protocol doing the translation you mean? that would be part of my project anyway, I guess
03:35.22andrecastelohey brlcad.. how functional is photonmap.c ?
03:35.50brlcadandrecastelo: if you pray to the gods and sacrifice the right sized chicken heads, it works great
03:36.11hippieindamakin8:)) paganism :P
03:36.19andrecastelolol.. but do you know what exactly works and what doesn't?
03:36.27brlcadexample photonmap rendering http://brlcad.org/tmp/moss_pm.png
03:37.32andrecastelohm, that cube shadow is a little off isn't it ?
03:38.18brlcadandrecastelo: usability is pretty poor (it's complicated to use), effects through thin-walled objects is flawed (the photons bleed), performance sucks unless you put the objects in a box (all the photons go off into space)
03:38.42brlcadpositionwise, no the shadows are right
03:39.38brlcadthere's a question as to whether it should be light due to reflections, but otherwise right
03:39.58brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/moss_pm_2.png
03:44.55hippieindamakin8cya ppl
03:45.00andrecastelocya hippieindamakin8
03:45.00hippieindamakin8later
03:45.40mafmlaterz :)
03:48.03andrecastelobrlcad: so, i'd have to rewrite part of it
03:48.15brlcadandrecastelo: possibly
03:48.59brlcadimplementing a bidirectional path-tracer would pretty much trump photonmapping though
03:49.05mafmOK, I have everything but the plan :PPP
03:49.22brlcador a path tracer with photomapping aspects
03:49.33brlcador a path trace option to rt directly
03:49.37andrecasteloat least the kd-tree functions are already implemented.. those are usable, right ?
03:49.49brlcadyeah, you really don't worry about any of that
03:50.17brlcadeven for implementing some other global illumination interface, you wouldn't worry about that
03:50.29mafmis there some talk in the mailing list, wiki or whatever of the main features needed by the GUI?
03:50.54andrecasteloi see.. well, i thought photon mapping was the most realistic method to implement GI
03:51.07brlcadandrecastelo: read up on http://brlcad.org/wiki/Developing_applications .. talks about some of the basics of the shotline interface
03:51.21brlcadno, photon-mapping isn't the most realistic
03:51.26brlcadit's the fastest
03:51.47brlcadat least it can be fast
03:52.26brlcadbidirectional path-tracing is a brute-force solution to the rendering equation, and converges generally to a great answer
03:52.46brlcadthat's what most people see when they look at ultra-realistic images
03:53.20brlcadusually MLT
03:54.24mafmbrlcad: is there some talk in the mailing list, wiki or whatever of the main features needed by the GUI?
03:54.31brlcadthe brazil rendering system is probably one of the best MLT implementations (http://www.splutterfish.com/sf/WebContent/Index)
03:54.43brlcadmafm: not really, at least not yet
03:55.13mafm:S
03:55.15brlcadfor now, just think of it as a thin graphical network client
03:55.34mafmyep, but I was trying to think about the milestones
03:55.44brlcadthat needs to display stuff obviously, look up geometry, display it, spin it around, etc
03:55.48andrecastelobrlcad: those are amazing!
03:56.11mafm<slashdot>
03:56.20mafm1) Create hello world
03:56.22mafm2) ???
03:56.30mafm3) GSoC completed!!
03:56.34mafm</slashdot>
03:56.35andrecastelo4) Profit!!!
03:56.38andrecastelohehe
03:57.02brlcadandrecastelo: they were one of the first to make detailed pictures that seriously looked real
03:57.27andrecasteloi was trying to write milestones too, that's why i was asking about photonmap.c functionality
03:57.59mafmholy cow! those images are truly amazing
03:58.10brlcadthe milestones aren't necessarily set in stone, it's mostly important to see that you've actually thought through a timeline and design process that we can then talk about
03:59.17andrecastelowhat are the most important things in an app ?
03:59.49andrecastelo(for you guys)
04:00.34mafmwhy is the logging thing an important one? it's logging what commands go back and forth for debugging, or what?
04:01.02brlcadespecially images like: http://www.splutterfish.com/sf/WebContent/Gallery/Image/283?category=2&perpage=24&page=7  and  http://www.splutterfish.com/sf/WebContent/Gallery/Image/436?category=2&perpage=24&page=2
04:01.50brlcadmafm: logging is one of those fundamental things nice to have sorted out early on, for testing, development, debugging, etc
04:02.17brlcadnot critical for the app, I was just thinking of basic infrastructure items
04:02.23andrecastelobrlcad: omg, those are beautiful
04:03.35brlcadyou can do some cool stuff with metropolis light transport, global illumination ;)
04:03.55mafmso milestones could be: logging, console, being able to communicate with the back-end, displaying geometries, rotating & positioning
04:04.48mafmdisplaying various representations (wireframe, polygonal, etc)
04:07.03brlcadplus maybe clean cross-platform build system integration, and input support (trackball, shift-grips)
04:07.23andrecastelobrlcad: so, what would be better, photon mapping or bidirectional path tracing ??
04:07.52brlcadandrecastelo: if you have experience with neither, path tracing
04:08.24andrecastelook, i'll have to do some research to write the application though
04:08.26brlcadthe algorithm for forward path-tracing is like 100-200 lines of code
04:08.49brlcadmaybe 10x for full bidirectional, and then some for usability and render options
04:10.03mafmbe right back
04:12.44andrecastelobrlcad: what's your timezone ?
04:12.51brlcadEDT
04:13.05andrecastelohow many hours from UTC ?
04:13.11brlcad-4
04:13.26andrecastelogreat
04:13.50andrecasteloi'll be back tomorrow in the morning to finish discussing the application ;)
04:14.25andrecastelogood night
04:14.32andrecastelomafm: good night man, cya
04:17.23brlcadwaves
04:34.32mafmsighs
04:34.43mafmmaybe I'm lucky and get 3h of sleep today :)
04:41.13mafmbrlcad: there it is
04:41.28brlcadthere what is?
04:42.43brlcadah, to the mailing list
04:42.45brlcadgot it
04:43.24mafmand to the Google's webapp too
04:43.54brlcadlooks good, gracias
04:44.01mafmyw :)
04:48.34mafmit's about time to sleep, night :)
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10:56.53andrecastelogood morning everyone
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12:37.52andrecastelohey brlcad :)
12:37.54andrecasteloyou there?
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12:48.45mafmhallo
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13:22.20brlcadhallo
13:34.54d_rossbergbrlcad: the tags/7.12.0 won't compile on windows (cpp issue)
13:35.09d_rossbergit looks like bob solved it for the trunk
13:35.26brlcadcpp issue?
13:38.00d_rossbergmath.h is included in a cpp file but in an extern "C" section
13:38.30d_rossbergthe problem is: math.h defines templates if it is included in a cpp file
13:38.53d_rossberghowever, this won't work with extern "C"
13:39.13brlcadah, yeah I think I actually may have fixed that one
13:39.41d_rossbergyes, it looks like it's fixed on the trunk
13:40.37brlcadthe bigger question is why the .exe isn't working, haven't had a chance to poke at that yet
13:41.54d_rossbergwhich exe? the install.exe and mged.exe work on my computer (MS Windows XP)
13:42.13brlcadthe 7.12.0 test binary
13:42.37brlcadftp://ftp.brlcad.org/incoming/brlcad-7.12.0.exe
13:42.40d_rossbergthe is what i was talking about
13:42.50brlcadwim couldn't get it to work
13:43.20d_rossbergwhat os does he use: xp or vista?
13:43.35brlcadcourse his e-mail apparently just died too -- him and another just got delisted from the mailing list due to bounced e-mails :)
13:45.11d_rossbergBUT: rt does not work (at least from mged), even a ray-trace to a file fails
13:45.40brlcadi believe wim was on xp
13:45.56brlcadwhat's rt fail with? runtime linker error?
13:47.19d_rossbergnor error, it says "Raytrace complete"
13:49.22brlcadthen it's probably crashing
13:49.34brlcaddoes it produce any output?  like the prep output?
13:50.11d_rossbergno, at least not on the mged window
13:51.39brlcadbob's finally back this week, I'll mention it to him
13:55.11d_rossbergmaybe i could be more useful if i get my new VS running
13:55.47d_rossbergi got it today and at the moment i try to get my old projects running with it
13:55.57d_rossbergthis could take some time ...
14:00.59brlcadnods
14:02.20brlcadfeel free to comment on any of the submissions ..
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14:29.59brlcadhello andrecastelo
14:30.01andrecastelohi everyone
14:30.03andrecastelohey brlcad
14:30.10brlcadresponded to your submission
14:30.14andrecastelojust read the comment on the app
14:30.21andrecasteloyeah, just saw it ;)
14:30.50andrecasteloyou want more detail about how MTL would interact with BRL-CAD's existing libraries, right ?
14:31.08brlcadyeah, just a little more detail about how it ties to us
14:31.36andrecastelohm, ok
14:31.38brlcadyou've shown reasonable competency in the task itself, but there's not much in the way of how it integrates with our code
14:32.04andrecastelohm, ok, i'll try to detail further and it'll be ready in a minute
14:32.20brlcadwhat library/routines would you possibly be using for example -- does it leverage existing functionality (or not)
14:33.43brlcademphasis on most tools are tools that *integrate* with brl-cad cleanly, that aren't just stand-alone apps being added to an otherwise already massive codebase, replicating existing functionality for example
14:34.12brlcadalso just to show me that you have at least done your homework on what we actually already provide
14:35.08brlcadyou also never explicitly mention what language you'd be working in or forsee implementing this in
14:35.14brlcadi.e. more implementation detail ;)
14:35.22brlcadotherwise a good submission
14:35.33andrecastelohm ok, i thought C was implicit :b
14:35.53andrecasteloi'll include these details, though
14:36.08brlcadC or C++ is preferred, but not exactly required -- that's a design decision
14:36.27brlcadI'd be perfectly willing to consider another language if someone makes a strong valid case (good luck with that :)
14:37.00andrecastelobrlcad: is it possible to implement that in C++ ?
14:37.14brlcadyes
14:37.20andrecasteloi mean, wouldn't it kind of conflict with existing code.. ?
14:37.38brlcadit would have to live in a directory of its own, but no
14:37.45andrecastelook, i'll add some justification why C++ would be better then
14:37.45brlcadwe already have some C++ interfaces
14:38.11brlcadyou should know where we use C++ already :)
14:39.42brlcadif you do propose C++, I'd also expect you to speak of basic performance profiling as well
14:40.43andrecasteloperformance profiling ?
14:41.31brlcadsanity checks to make sure it's not spinning its wheels in abstractions
14:43.16andrecastelohm ok ok..
14:44.29brlcadpath tracers are very expensive, the same really holds true for a C implementation too -- but even more so for C++
15:01.28andrecastelohey brlcad - would it be better for me to reuse some of the ray tracer code for the path tracer or just write one from scratch ?
15:01.37brlcadheh
15:01.41brlcadwhich do you think
15:02.28andrecasteloreuse the code for a prototype version
15:02.31brlcad"10:33 <@brlcad> emphasis on most tools are tools that *integrate* with brl-cad cleanly, that aren't just stand-alone apps being added to an otherwise already massive codebase replicating existing functionality for example"
15:02.33andrecastelothen extend it to become fully functional
15:02.43brlcadwe already shoot rays
15:02.57brlcadone of the specific intents is to use librt for ray shooting
15:03.50brlcadsee the links I posted yesterday about developing brl-cad applications
15:03.58andrecasteloalright
15:14.15*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code, see http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code and join the developer mailing list || GSoC application submissions are (STILL) open with a one-week extension, submission deadline is now April 7th
15:14.52brlcadkudos to those of you that got your submissions in on time :)
15:16.50andrecastelobrlcad: this week will be really useful for me to get familiar with the code and detail it even further ;)
15:17.52brlcadandrecastelo: glad to hear it :)
15:27.04andrecastelobrlcad: hm, so, i updated the application with the details you wanted ;)
15:27.22andrecasteloi'm open to critics and suggestions now
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15:37.40mafm1 week extensions???
15:39.27andrecastelomafm: yup :)
15:39.49mafmpff
15:39.56andrecastelowhy pff ?
15:39.59mafmand I only slept 3h tonight because of that :P
15:49.59brlcadmafm: hehe, well it does speak well for those that got their applications in on time
15:50.08brlcadit's an edge
15:52.54mafmno need to send a box of Oporto wine to the mentors then?
15:53.02brlcadhehe
15:53.35brlcadnever said he could or could not be bribed with women and alcohol
15:56.06mafmlet's just keep the alcohol thing, you wouldn't want to meet most portuguese women :P
15:56.28andrecastelomafm: great, i'll supply the women
15:56.32brlcad:)
15:56.37andrecastelo:P
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15:58.22Daytonabrlcad: I just saw that the application extension is official
16:00.57mafmthat's a real news flash :)
16:01.27brlcadheh
16:01.46brlcaddrive by daytona!
16:12.55mafm<lh> brlcad: you are cruel and vicious
16:12.56mafmlol
16:13.11mafmI think that brlcad is served in the women dept.
16:13.21brlcadlubs the leslie
16:13.46mafmno luck for you andrecastelo, I think that you might better try with brazilian coffee or something :)
16:14.52brlcadmafm: the comments also take on quite a different tone when you've met many of them :)
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16:15.36mafmdid you go to the mentor summit last year?
16:15.44brlcadyeah
16:15.51brlcadfun stuff
16:15.54mafmbtw, how many applications are there? ~20 for CrystalSpace
16:16.42brlcadfewer, but close hold until the deadline :)
16:17.42mafmprobably they'll get more too, it was less than 20 yesterday, but probably there will be 5 or 10 today before the former deadline
16:17.51brlcadthe interesting thing is that right now there are probably 4 really strong applicants and we were only going to accept at most 4 ... :)
16:18.35mafmhow so? don't you want to accept more, if they give you the chance?
16:18.36brlcadhopefully the apps keep improving, it'll be a tight competition
16:18.50brlcadno no
16:19.28brlcadi just saying that 4 are *really* strong, so if there wasn't an extension -- the list of who gets selected is pretty straightforward
16:20.02brlcadnow with an extension, it just becomes more competitive .. if more really strong apps come in
16:20.26hippieindamakin8good morning fellows :)
16:21.12mafmI see :)
16:21.48andrecastelobrlcad: how many mentors does brlcad have ?
16:21.59andrecastelothat seems to be the student cap, right ?
16:22.19brlcadwe have 6 mentors at present
16:22.46brlcadwith two potential backups
16:22.57brlcadbut no, that's not the cap
16:23.16brlcadthey can't all be managed effectively with that many -- that's why we're looking at just 2-4
16:23.42andrecastelobut the organizations do define a max number of students, right ?
16:23.42brlcadtakes time to integrate, review code, plan, etc
16:23.46brlcadright
16:23.48andrecasteloi see
16:23.49brlcadour max is 4
16:24.01brlcadi don't want more than 4 for brl-cad this year
16:24.12andrecasteloi hope i can make my application compete with those 4 strong ones you talked about :)
16:24.45brlcadthat's also why having students speak to what interests them in the long run becomes useful, we'd like new long-term developers not just projects worked on
16:25.47brlcadhere's an example of a really strong application received for bzflag, http://my.bzflag.org/w/User:Jude-
16:26.33brlcaddetailed, careful thoughts on implementation, ties to our code, timelines, etc
16:31.29hippieindamakin8mafm are u dawn thomas ?
16:32.25hippieindamakin8ohh its somebody else from india
16:39.01mafmnope, I'm Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo (hence the acronym of my nick, not the most creative thing really)
16:41.45hippieindamakin8:)
16:43.49yukonbob_waves in
16:44.00yukonbob_ohh --- I'm a ghosty
16:52.23brlcadhowdy yukonbob_
16:52.28yukonbob_:)
16:52.44yukonbob_doesn't have his tail-removing instructions with him atm :P
16:53.07yukonbob_it's a msg to nicserv, but I don't remember what...
16:56.42yukonbobwhat's the status of the GSoC -- on schedule, or extended?
16:59.38brlcadpoints at topic ;)
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17:23.03``Erikerm
17:23.06``Erikwhy?
17:23.18``Eriklack of solid submissions? :(
17:24.45``Erik<-- thought the expectation was ~50 "good" submissions
17:25.13``Erikno, I have not been reading my email.
17:25.14``Erik:D
17:47.18mafm50 good submissions??
17:48.06mafmthat's a lot
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17:54.58``Erikmebbe I had pie in the sky aspirations
18:21.11hippieindamakin8i am done making a proposal
18:21.48mafmabout what?
18:36.27mafmhippieindamakin8: ?
18:48.35hippieindamakin8OOP geometry
18:49.23hippieindamakin8its about OOP geometry engine mafm
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19:01.05mafmah ok
19:01.21mafmI had thought about that project too
19:04.01yukonbobre: topic, me nods, points out that the irrsi topic-line across top doesn't show novels ;)
19:07.46hippieindamakin8i might put in a proposal for the web repository as well
19:17.48yukonbobwonders, is there an official msg from Google re: this extension -- on the gsoc (code.google.com/...) the timelines still show the deadline as 31Mar
19:18.09brlcad``Erik: given how similar i'm seeing our rate is to bz's, that would have resulted in about 25 "good" ones
19:18.44brlcadthinks ``Erik should comment on the submissions more
19:19.38mafmyukonbob: do you mean if the extension is for  real?
19:20.31yukonbobmafm: see brlcad's note to me re: topic
19:20.33brlcadyukonbob: depends how big your window is too :)
19:20.52brlcadsees it all
19:21.08yukonbobbrlcad: heh -- not all of us are developing on 16-way multi-gpu chromium-equipped workstations ;)
19:21.22brlcadmmm.. 16-way
19:21.34yukonboblaughs
19:21.39yukonbobwhat a bunch of nerds we are.
19:26.41yukonboblooks for discussion brlcad and self had re: other projects...
19:27.47brlcadthinks yukonbob should mentor
19:28.38mafmwhy do you keep saying "re: something"? I don't understand at least half of your phrases
19:28.53brlcadre: == regarding
19:29.45yukonbobbrlcad: my heart has always been 100% agreeable to that, but I've held off just for logistic reasons...
19:29.52yukonbobbets he _will_ mentor
19:29.59yukonbobdo I need to register or anything?
19:30.08brlcadyou would need to, yes
19:30.08yukonbob(by some deadline?)
19:30.12mafmah ok
19:30.24brlcadby then end of the week
19:30.36yukonbobfine, fine ;)
19:30.39brlcader, by the time we start ranking actually
19:30.47brlcadwhich is probably the day apps close
19:30.58brlcadI can't add you though, you have to do it
19:31.23yukonbobok -- I'll do that now...
19:31.33mafmI guess that they'll extend it for another two weeks or something :P
19:32.11yukonbobmafm: 1 week
19:33.02brlcadyeah, just one week, mentors then still have their 12+ days to deliberate, rank, and ask for more detail
19:33.25brlcadthen there's a community bonding time frame for about 5 weeks
19:34.11mafmjust kidding, I was saying that by the time that the new deadline is reached, maybe they extend it for another 2 weeks :)
19:34.16brlcadwhere students get familiarized, hopefully start committing, learn what they need to
19:34.24brlcadahh, heh, not likely
19:35.04brlcad4300 or so applicants was probably enough to stay on schedule -- adding another week it just going to make it a heck of a lot more competitive
19:35.22brlcadas there will likely be 6000-8000 applicants I bet
19:36.04brlcadwhich means for a group like ours, we're going to have anywhere from 8-16 people competiting for 2-4 slots
19:37.03yukonbobfinishes mentor application
19:39.07brlcadwonders wtf Avinash Dubey is
19:39.18brlcadrejects
19:44.32mafmI go now, night
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19:56.22yukonbobhas to log-off temporarily (battery) -- chat later, folks
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21:33.20yukonbobreturns, like he never even left (thx, screen(1))
21:50.16yukonbobwonders (speaking of meta-projects like GSoC and BRL-CAD) -- is there any progress on Coverity and BRL-CAD?
21:53.25brlcadi emailed dave yet again, no response
21:57.08hippieindamakin8hey brlcad are u there
21:57.09hippieindamakin8?
21:57.30brlcadnope
21:57.38brlcad~ask
21:57.39ibotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
21:58.58yukonboblikes the "against our will" description
21:59.51hippieindamakin8ya wanted to submit my proposal :)
21:59.54yukonbobreceives cattle prod, and is instructed to refrain from meta-comments
22:00.25yukonbobhippieindamakin8: submit it, and it will be commented on
22:00.47hippieindamakin8:) ya
22:01.29hippieindamakin8brlcad can the user define his primitives ?
22:01.54brlcadhuh?
22:02.06yukonbobhippieindamakin8: in what sense? Primitives are "primitive" -- they're the core bits that "stuff" is made from...
22:02.32hippieindamakin8like in AUTOCAD inventor 3d modelling and solidworks .. i add 2 already existing primitives and they can define it as another primitive
22:02.36hippieindamakin8for his later worl
22:02.46hippieindamakin8*work
22:03.00yukonbobread vol II, iirc about regions, etc.
22:03.17hippieindamakin8smthing like.. a template
22:06.46brlcadyes, you can do that -- they're not called primitives, though -- they are combinations
22:07.01brlcadprimitives are the most fundamental object type
22:10.57hippieindamakin8ohk.. like when i used AUTOCAD, it calls it user defined primitive
22:13.22hippieindamakin8just sent the proposal
22:14.13yukonbobs/vol II/ Vol III/; s/regions/combinations and regions/ -- (http://brlcad.org/wiki/Documentation)
22:15.37hippieindamakin8thanks yukonbob
22:15.39yukonbobnp
22:15.49yukonbob~doc
22:15.49ibotDocumentation can be found at http://digium.com/index.php?menu=documentation or http://www.digium.com/handbook-draft.pdf or http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-Asterisk or http://www.asteriskdocs.org or http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/asterisk
22:16.00yukonbobhrm...
22:16.12yukonbob^-- not for you, hippieindamakin8
22:16.14yukonbob:
22:16.17yukonbob:
22:16.21hippieindamakin8ya got it :)
22:16.25yukonbob:), rather
22:16.44hippieindamakin8hates lab reports and open office the most
22:16.57yukonbobhates bad coffee
22:20.21hippieindamakin8is waiting for comments from brlcad and yukonbob
22:20.38brlcadhippieindamakin8: be patient
22:20.47hippieindamakin8ohk :) i am
22:20.49brlcadit might take hours or even days
22:21.08hippieindamakin8that was just a message .. i shall get back to my lab reports
22:21.11brlcadwork on a patch in the meantime :)
22:21.27hippieindamakin8yaya.. hey is the nsis installer working properly?
22:21.47brlcadthe patches will probably be a huge deciding factor given the extension
22:21.53hippieindamakin8i wanted to do that though :P
22:21.53brlcadworks for me
22:22.05hippieindamakin8ya i understand :|
22:22.15brlcadcould do the localization fix that was mentioned yesterday
22:22.22brlcadso it doesn't just assume "Program Files"
22:22.30hippieindamakin8ohk...
22:22.34hippieindamakin8i ll have to chk..
22:22.56hippieindamakin8i have no windows rt now.. i shall get to it in a day or 2
22:23.22hippieindamakin8wats the new deadline for the submission of patches ?
22:24.59yukonbobhippieindamakin8: you mean for GSoC proposals? 7 Apr.
22:25.09hippieindamakin8no the patches
22:25.59brlcadtechnically they're optional, but you'll not likely get selected if you don't provide a patch given how competitive it's going to be
22:26.35brlcadgiven we start ranking on the 7th, it's in your best interest to have something done by then or very shortly thereafter
22:31.48hippieindamakin8ya i sure want to submit a patch
22:32.27yukonbobgo for it!!
22:32.28brlcadyou sure do
22:32.43yukonbobcheers "submit a patch! submit a patch!"
22:34.14yukonbobalso gets a glass of water...
23:10.09pooliohippieindamakin8: Submit a documentation patch :)
23:10.18pooliobrlcad: how's the gsoc going?
23:11.27hippieindamakin8cool :)
23:12.09hippieindamakin8ya seen them in the list of TODOs
23:12.17brlcadcode patch would probably be preferred since one of the points is to see how you code, but yeah, even a documentation patch would work :)
23:12.25brlcadpoolio: fun fun
23:12.33brlcadsome good proposals to evaluate
23:12.36hippieindamakin8i shall try for a technical patch first and then i shall come up with docs when i am unable to do that
23:14.01hippieindamakin8i shall be submitting it by 9th .. will it do ?? too many academic committments rt now with the end semester examinations approaching
23:14.01brlcadlooking at the bug and feature requests on sf.net is also recommended
23:14.06hippieindamakin8i am trying to keep a track of them
23:43.44hippieindamakin8brlcad: Sean w.r.t ur slashdot post
23:44.04brlcadque?
23:44.05hippieindamakin8<PROTECTED>
23:44.19hippieindamakin8:)
23:44.20brlcaddoesn't mean computer science degree students
23:44.34hippieindamakin8i aint :) and it is open to all
23:45.07brlcadthe fact that they are working on code as stucents makes them "computer science students" over the course of the summer
23:46.00hippieindamakin8:) thats true
23:46.08pooliobrlcad: at some schools that's an insult
23:46.42brlcadthe wording is actually based off of google's own original announcements from chris
23:46.56hippieindamakin8ya my school considers my contribution to the firefox and imageprocessing community a big waste of time :P
23:47.18brlcadmore power to them if they're insulted, less rediculous people to have to deal with during the review process
23:47.29hippieindamakin8its ohk.. :) wat Sean wrote is actually rt but literally not :)
23:47.40brlcadyou're missing the point
23:47.47brlcadliterally it is the case, it doesn't say degree
23:47.59hippieindamakin8aah yeah
23:48.12hippieindamakin8ya that is ppl interested in CS
23:49.33hippieindamakin8my school is completely ridiculous in the point that when enrolled in mechanical engg u are just supposed to take mechanical engg courses when given an option for an elective
23:50.49yukonbobisn't that point neither here not there, though -- the only way the school (maybe) needs to be involved is to verify you're enrolled in school... you could get a job selling ice-cream for the summer if you like, too...
23:51.19yukonbob...whether it's related to your studies or not, or whether the school likes it or not...
23:51.23hippieindamakin8hehe
23:51.33brlcadyep, in fact that's exactly what one of the bzflag gsoc students did last year
23:52.17brlcad(and he was ultimately failed due to lack of progress and inadequate time put forth)
23:52.45yukonbobheh
23:53.25yukonboboff-topic: how suitable would the bzflag framework be to building a virtual world, a la second life... perhaps one could have a project setting up a virtual ice-cream shop?
23:53.39brlcadheh, doable
23:53.50yukonbobmakes note
23:53.50poolioyukonbob: Just out of curiousity, for what purpose would this virtual world exist?
23:54.01brlcadthere's no dynamic geometry right now, that'd require modifications
23:54.04yukonbobfeh -- same reason second life exists, I guess...
23:54.13poolioAlthough there are probably a ton of better frameworks out there.
23:54.19yukonbobsure
23:54.27poolioyukonbob: entertainment? There are some AGI people trying to hook up to virtual worlds for the purpose of learning
23:54.31brlcadblasphemy!
23:54.41poolio...
23:54.42brlcadnothing is better than bzflag
23:54.45brlcadexcept brl-cad
23:54.46yukonboblaughs -- brlcad is agitated!!!
23:54.51hippieindamakin8:))
23:54.52pooliobrlcad: Can I quote you on this?
23:55.01brlcadhehe, sure
23:55.34brlcadgets craving for chinese food
23:56.26yukonbobis interested in machinema (sp?) -- perhaps brl-cad and bzflag could provide the bulk of the framework to make a video...
23:56.37yukonbobmeow
23:57.30yukonbobdoes bzflag support any easy-to-do articulation? (/me thinks "no")
23:57.48brlcadbzflag doesn't support any articulation
23:57.58brlcad"no dynamic geometry"
23:58.04yukonbobGSoC ;)
23:58.19brlcadnot something I'd rank high on our priority list :)
23:58.56yukonbobcan hardly wait to get a 'puter w/ hardware acceleration to get bzflag installed again...
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080401

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080401

00:01.06yukonbobno dynamic geom in brl-cad either, correct? so if one is modelling a vehicle w/ say wheels that need to travel up/down on suspension, the designer would need to do some of their own work to determine that the wheels don't collide w/ the wheel wells?
00:01.23brlcadactually we do have rudimentary dynamic geometry
00:01.27yukonbob!
00:01.33yukonbobdocumented?
00:01.36brlcadhence all the videos, which you've probably never seen ;)
00:01.50yukonbobhas seens ronja videos...
00:02.00yukonbobare you talking classified videos?
00:02.05brlcadwe actually have like a hundred videos
00:02.10brlcadnope
00:02.15brlcadmost of them are public release materials
00:02.23yukonbobawesome!!!
00:02.25yukonbob?link
00:02.40brlcadjust not in digital format .. sitting on shelves and in boxes
00:02.45yukonbobhahahahaha
00:02.56yukonbobok -- so I need to order a VHS copy to see these :)
00:03.04brlcadfor some of them
00:03.05yukonboblike netflix ;)
00:03.21brlcadsome are betacam, some umatic, some old magnetic spools
00:03.56brlcadhopefully can get some of them digitized soon
00:07.27brlcadit's all mostly done via "joints", which is a manual rigging system
00:07.42brlcadthe anim tools help perform the per-frame articulattions
00:07.57brlcadas well as other rt features like multirender command scripts
00:08.33brlcadthat could easily make for a great gsoc project, but then support for constraints and parametric equations really helps that effort
00:09.49brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/OLD/reports/tr-313/chapt0.html touches on some of the basic concepts
00:09.57yukonbobnice
00:10.14brlcadthough that particular report doesn't cover joints, just basic transformations
00:10.33yukonbobit's a start...
00:11.50brlcadcaveat warning .. last time *I* tried reproducing the results of that paper, I ran into a problem with our quaternions (i.e. our view representation) .. yet someone on the mailing list had no problems
00:12.26yukonbobie: diff't axis representation?
00:12.44brlcadhm?
00:12.56brlcadhow the view matrix is specified
00:13.18brlcad(quaternions are more compact than your traditional homogenous matrix)
00:13.19yukonbobfor selecting rhs/lhs of object?
00:13.32yukonbobisn't clear on this terminology :P
00:13.43brlcaddon't worry about it :)
00:13.51brlcadquaternions give everyone a headache :)
00:14.04brlcadcept math nuts
00:14.10yukonbobheh -- /me wasn't worried -- is always keen to learn new stuff, though :)
00:14.15brlcadand even then, it's like a mild migraine
00:14.43brlcadhave fun:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternion  :)
00:15.03brlcadand: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternions_and_spatial_rotation
00:15.04yukonbobloads it, puts aside in diff't screen for later reading :)
00:15.21brlcadgoes home
00:15.33yukonbobchat later
00:17.15hippieindamakin8cya Sean
00:24.50*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=pulse@189.71.62.248)
00:24.58andrecastelogood evening everyone
00:30.49hippieindamakin8hey andre
00:31.04hippieindamakin8wassup? andrecastelo
00:31.13andrecastelohey hippieindamakin8
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02:05.28brlcadburps
02:10.34yukonbobmeow
02:11.18spike_woof
02:12.09yukonbobmeow you cut that out, meow-kay?
02:12.43spike_meow do i look like a cat to you boy? do you see me jumpin all hibbidy-bibbidy from tree to tree? do i drink milk from a saucer boy? meow
02:12.54yukonbobhewhe
02:12.56yukonbobhehe
02:31.38*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669639.dsl.bell.ca)
02:32.52yukonbobhey louipc
02:33.45louipcyukonbob: what's up
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03:18.13CIA-34BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30596 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/masonry.c: cleanup
03:25.43CIA-34BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30597 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/masonry.c: lil more
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05:15.52hippieindamakin8apparently my mail bounced
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05:37.35brlcadhippieindamakin8: how do you figure that?
05:40.01brlcadah, perhaps it did, you copied me directly
05:40.21brlcadyou much be joined and sending from the address registered
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06:14.47*** part/#brlcad vasanth (n=4ba91375@bz.bzflag.bz)
06:25.54CIA-34BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30598 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/units.c:
06:25.54CIA-34BRL-CAD: implement a bu_nearest_units_string() function that returns the name of the unit
06:25.54CIA-34BRL-CAD: closest to the input unit. also, enhance the units table with ALL of the SI
06:25.54CIA-34BRL-CAD: units from yoctometers to yottameters along with other astronomical units of
06:25.55CIA-34BRL-CAD: measurements, chains, furlongs, and leagues.
06:26.19CIA-34BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30599 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: declare the new bu_nearest_units_string() function
06:53.51*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@217-162-111-98.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:27.29CIA-34BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30600 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/opt.c:
07:27.29CIA-34BRL-CAD: add a -u option to all of the ray-tracers as a 'units' option for specifying the
07:27.29CIA-34BRL-CAD: desired output units. default continues to be mm (istead of local).
07:27.29CIA-34BRL-CAD: ray-tracers still have to be manually updated to take advantage of the option
07:41.34*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@74.86.45.130)
07:42.42CIA-34BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30601 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS TODO doc/deprecation.txt src/rt/viewarea.c):
07:42.42CIA-34BRL-CAD: add a new -u units option support to rtarea so that users can specify the
07:42.42CIA-34BRL-CAD: desired output units. announce clearly that the output format of rtarea is
07:42.42CIA-34BRL-CAD: subject to change soon as is the terminology being used. this is in preparation
07:42.43CIA-34BRL-CAD: of addressing other user requests to fix the naming conventions, default units
07:42.45CIA-34BRL-CAD: (using local units), and support for additional output formats (tables). this
07:42.47CIA-34BRL-CAD: feature was requested by _many_ (most?) modelers and analysts.
07:44.52CIA-34BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30602 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewarea.c: missing newlines
07:45.08*** part/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669639.dsl.bell.ca)
07:47.41brlcadsomeone should make patches to make -u work for all of the other brl-cad ray-tracers ...
08:14.53Axman6yeah someone, git to it!
08:32.30brlcadennaps
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11:17.01mafmhey
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12:26.18hippieindamakin8ya sent it to the developers list :) which i dont have the mailing access to
12:26.23hippieindamakin8hey mafm
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13:36.46``Erikblehhhhhhh
13:38.02brlcadyup
14:25.38brlcadgreetings programs
14:27.17brlcadnice response d_rossberg
14:30.09mafm?
14:30.21brlcadgood morning mafm
14:31.27mafmhi
14:31.54mafmwhat are you talking about responses?
14:32.06mafmI cannot see anything here or in the ML :)
14:32.08alex_jonimafm: there are things beside IRC :P
14:32.26brlcadprivate mentor chatter
14:32.39mafmah OK
14:33.32d_rossbergi wonder what will be the response to my response :)
14:39.11mafmtl,dr
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15:22.04CIA-34BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30603 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ged.c: Not setting cbreak_mode to COMMAND_LINE_EDITING on windows.
15:25.50CIA-34BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30604 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/vls.c: make bu_vls_gets() behave regardless of the lines being \n, \r, or \r\n -- strip the EOL accordingly
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15:51.21*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.62.248)
15:51.26andrecastelohi guys
15:51.30andrecastelohey mafm, brlcad
15:57.21mafmyo
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17:00.15CIA-34BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30605 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: New routine is able to return input parameters in test case - need more elaborate testing now.
17:11.58CIA-34BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30606 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/asc2g/asc2g.vcproj: Update version to 7.12.1
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17:30.23*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@70.108.244.218)
17:30.45prasad_greetings
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18:03.07*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@wireless-239-77.uchicago.edu)
18:03.22jdolinerHello
18:10.47jdolinerbrlcad are you present?
18:32.10*** part/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@wireless-239-77.uchicago.edu)
18:53.48*** join/#brlcad illethal (n=oden@c-71-200-221-159.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
19:08.12mafmbye all
19:08.41illethalbai
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20:19.35cosurgibrlcad: is there any GSoC application about GUI frontend?
20:21.34cosurgioh, good, I see on the mailing list.
22:09.44CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30607 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_sketch.c: Tcl_AppendResult needs three parameters. This fixes a core dump when getting the form of a sketch.
23:51.03brlcadcosurgi: yeah, at least one looks promising
23:51.09brlcadhowdy prasad_
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080402

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080402

00:07.29*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.62.248)
00:07.35andrecastelogood evening everyone
00:08.14brlcadhowdy andrecastelo
00:08.37andrecastelohey brlcad
00:08.57andrecastelodid you review the application again ?
00:10.49brlcadandrecastelo: not yet in detail
00:10.53yukonbobwaves in
00:11.06brlcadgoing through them one at a time, will get back around to yours eventually
00:11.28andrecastelobrlcad: ok, ok ;)
00:34.15CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30608 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/fgets.c: ws
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01:36.36CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30609 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/attach.c:
01:36.36CIA-33BRL-CAD: rework the initial classic console mode attach prompt to use bu_vls_gets so that
01:36.36CIA-33BRL-CAD: we don't have to worry about end of line issues. also, trim whitespace so it
01:36.36CIA-33BRL-CAD: matches more easily and inform the user which selection is being used to affirm
01:36.39CIA-33BRL-CAD: their selection.
01:36.56CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30610 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/attach.c: loopy
02:13.49CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30612 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
02:13.49CIA-33BRL-CAD: improved mged's classic mode 'attach' display manager selection, particularly on
02:13.49CIA-33BRL-CAD: windows where it was getting the carriage return in the input string and not
02:13.49CIA-33BRL-CAD: getting a successful match. Now it drops the EOL character(s) and trims
02:13.50CIA-33BRL-CAD: whitespace on comparison, and affirms to the user which option was selected.
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04:33.12pacman87i've noticed BRL-CAD uses a bit of magic for the rt code
04:34.03pacman87#define RT_SOLTAB_MAGIC0x92bfcde0
04:34.44pacman87and i was wondering if the use of magic was documented somewhere
04:47.42brlcadpacman87: mmm.. probably
04:47.45brlcadbut just as easy to explain
04:48.47brlcadmagic numbers are simply special type identifiers -- the value of which usually has no meaningful significance other than being an identifier for that data
04:50.11brlcadthe magic numbers are used throughout the code for pervasive detection of memory corruption -- they are almost always the first bytes in a structure so if something overruns an array, it's easily detected
04:50.55brlcadlikewise if data is marshalled between different systems (whether through network or file I/O or some other cast mechanism), it is used to validate that types are what they should be
04:51.38brlcadwhat it all basically amounts to is that you just define a magic number for any new struct, and anywhere that struct is passed into a function, you check it
04:52.07brlcadso the instant there is any corruption, it's caught and processing can/should halt
05:06.09hippieindamakin8hello guys
05:06.36brlcadhowdy
05:11.27pacman87brlcad: thanks for the info
05:11.31brlcadnp
05:11.57pacman87is there a list of all the defined magic numbers, or will i have to search through them all to get a unique one?
05:13.44pacman87also, i noticed the primitive list has a (half) hyperboloid of two sheets, but not a hyperboloid of one sheet
05:15.13brlcadalmost all of them are hex-encoded char strings for the struct name
05:16.01pacman87would it cause trouble it my magic number isn't unique?
05:16.49brlcaddepends, but yes possibly
05:17.07brlcadthey are declared in their respective headers
05:17.34pacman87i suppose it's easier to grep for the hex string i want, than trying to gather a list of all the ones in use
05:19.17pacman87re: hyperboloid of one sheet, if i code that up in the next week, would that be an acceptable patch?
05:19.35pacman87i've already done all the math for the shot() method
05:19.53pacman87s/method/function
05:20.04pacman87too used to java terminology
05:20.51brlcadgrep MAGIC include/*.h | grep define | grep -v CK
05:20.56brlcadthat'll get you most of them
05:21.08brlcadand you can see many of them tell you what their hex is
05:21.22brlcad(they all should .. but some aren't alnum
05:22.42brlcadhm, hyperboloid of one sheet ...
05:22.59pacman87i just though it was odd to have one but not both
05:23.19brlcadyou mean you've seen src/librt/g_ehy.c
05:23.32pacman87yeah
05:24.40pacman87two sheets: x^2 + y^2 - z^2 + 1 = 0
05:24.50pacman87one sheet: x^2 + y^2 - z^2 - 1 = 0
05:25.23pacman87flips which side of the asymptotic cone the surface is on
05:25.49brlcadnods
05:26.37brlcadi'm just wondering if there's a way to better encapsulate that into the existing ehy without breaking format
05:28.08brlcadotherwise, a hot damn cool idea for a patch -- very impressive
05:28.35pacman87the math on this one is (relatively) easy
05:29.12pacman87so i can learn all the structs first
05:29.52brlcadand you have a nearly exact example to follow..
05:30.05brlcadstill very impressive though
05:30.24brlcad(assuming you get it to work) :)
05:31.26brlcadMarkowski would be proud
05:31.49pacman87i might need a bit more guidance integrating the new primitive, though
05:32.06pacman87as i haven't really looked at that part of the code yet
05:32.31pacman87but i'll ask when i get there (and have read the code) so i can understand what you're talking about
05:32.51pacman87Markowski is...?
05:33.28pacman87Michael J. Markowski, author of g_ehy.c
05:34.02pacman87though he remembered reading that name somewhere
05:36.11brlcadyep, he implemented a couple of the primitives
05:36.16brlcadhe's still around
05:37.02brlcadi'll be sure to tell him you thought he was dumb for not doing the one-sheets :)
05:39.38brlcadforewarning, the one tricky part is going to be that you have to deal with multihit, which ehy doesn't have to deal with
05:45.41pacman87should be a max of 4
05:46.03pacman87both bases, plus two sides
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05:50.05brlcadyeah, two segments
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06:17.30brlcadwaves g'night
06:18.16pacman87good idea, brlcad
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06:37.09brlcadhello gede1
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06:45.23brlcadyikes
06:47.05brlcadwanders off for real
06:56.22gede2brlcad: i've frozen app in my student dashboard, should i post new one?
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09:40.14mafmhi
09:51.27brlcadhowdy
09:52.08mafmisn't a bit to early for you? (or alternatively, too late)
09:52.32brlcadyep
09:54.20hippieindamakin8havent u slept brlcad ?
09:54.31brlcadmeh
09:58.01*** join/#brlcad gedex (n=gedex@222.124.185.169)
09:58.34brlcadgedex: no, you really shouldn't -- should talk to a mentor and get them to unfreeze it
09:59.13gedexit's fine to submit new one with same title?
10:00.16brlcadgedex: NO, you really shouldn't -- ...
10:00.32gedexso, i need to talk to  Sean
10:00.43brlcadto a mentor
10:00.55brlcadany mentor
10:01.42brlcadiff everything seems right, then maybe resubmitting might solve things, but don't just create more work for your convenience please :)
10:02.02brlcadwhich app is yours?
10:02.28gedexWeb-based solid geometry model repository
10:02.40gedexi would to create drupal's modul
10:02.53gedexerr.. *module
10:03.48brlcadinstead of responding with a comment, you should respond by editing the submission
10:04.29mafmwhat's the freezing problem? :)
10:04.44mafmstudents should be able to edit applications until the new deadline
10:04.49gedexthe ineligible status made me couldn't edit the form
10:05.16brlcadmafm: some cannot edit until a mentor comments
10:06.15brlcadgedex: ooooh, you're Akeda I take it
10:06.30gedexyes :)
10:06.47brlcadtitle is identical to another -- you needed to be talking with us regardless
10:06.53gedexbrldcad is Sean?
10:07.15brlcadstatus restored, try now
10:07.19mafmhuh? don't know, but I can edit all of mine... and I thought that the mentor comments to enable application modifications were only after the deadline
10:07.43gedexbrlcad: thx Sean
10:08.42brlcadgedex: word of caution -- that's an exceptionally popular topic for some reason
10:09.01brlcadyou really might want to reconsider what exactly you propose :)
10:12.11brlcadand will need to be very detailed and well articulated regardless, that much is certain given there are like 6 really strong candidates already with only 2-4 slots being allowed
10:12.47brlcadmore than 6 received, but about that many are already "really good" before we even get to rankings
10:12.53gedexbrldcad: i just updated my app
10:13.57gedexi want to know what drupal's version used on main site?
10:14.17gedex5.x or 6.x
10:15.15brlcadgiven one of them just came out and hardly any of the modules are converted yet, which do you think
10:17.32brlcadgedex: I've seen it and it's better, but I can already tell you that it really needs a lot more detail, and it needs to tie to BRL-CAD better (you haven't identified how/what in brl-cad it should be using)
10:18.17gedexbrlcad: ok, thx
10:18.47brlcadto give you an idea of the level of effort being seen, not to put any of the other submitters on the spot -- here's a pretty good example of appropriate detail: http://brlcad.org/wiki/Libpg_:_A_parametrics/constraint_library
10:19.37brlcadanother good example for a different project: http://my.bzflag.org/w/User:Jude-
10:22.55brlcadlooks forward to seeing updates and wanders off back to emacs
10:26.56CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30613 10/brlcad/trunk/ (197 files in 197 dirs): ignore generated Makefile.in and Makefile files
10:34.29CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30614 10/brlcad/trunk/ (197 files in 197 dirs): bah, revert previous propsetting .. need additive, not override
10:52.34hippieindamakin8hey brlcad Mr.Rossberg says he needs a bit more detail in my application can u tell me where exactly ?
10:56.12brlcadnope
10:56.31brlcadthat's for you to figure out
10:56.36hippieindamakin8:P
10:56.39brlcadand I agree with him
10:56.45hippieindamakin8sure
11:01.07d_rossberghippieindamakin8: i added a question to my comment, you could e.g answer this question ;)
11:01.21hippieindamakin8ya i am replying to that :)
11:24.58CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30615 10/brlcad/trunk/ (198 files in 198 dirs): much better .. ignore all the generated Makefile, Makefile.in, .deps, and .libs stuff
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11:50.30clock_hippieindamakin8: does your nick mean hippie in the machine?
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12:01.33hippieindamakin8clock_ it is actually hippie in the making 87
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13:13.09andrecastelohey everyone
13:13.11andrecastelohey mafm
13:13.45hippieindamakin8hey andrecastelo
13:13.56andrecastelohey hippieindamakin8
13:20.06mafmhi andrecastelo
13:35.18CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30616 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/wdb_comb_std.c: Found another case where Tcl_AppendResult was not being used correctly (i.e. last argument must be a null char *).
14:08.31andrecastelobrlcad: hey, you there??
14:17.51brlcadnope
14:18.23brlcad~ask
14:18.23ibotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
15:13.31CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30617 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/dg.h src/proc-db/tire.c): folks need to set up their subversion config file with auto-props entries. set the mime-types and eol-style
15:17.24CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30618 10/brlcad/trunk/include/dg.h: fix header
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15:36.05andrecastelobrlcad: sorry about earlier, i had to go afk and didn't respond..
15:36.46andrecasteloit's about the "center point" patch - it is necessary to implement it in the gui, right ?
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15:48.46surya__hey guys
16:11.24CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30619 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Appears to be a problem with rotation - added testing routines for equations at various points, easier generation of test cases.
17:16.55mafmbye all
17:50.55yukonbob<PROTECTED>
18:00.11yukonbobwaves in
18:00.14yukonbobhello, cadheads
18:00.44pacman87hi yukonbob
18:26.28brlcadhowdy yukonbobby
18:27.17yukonbobwhat's shaking, gentlemen?
18:27.29yukonbobpeeks into the GSoC site to see what's happening there...
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18:28.49brlcadoh, trying to actually catch up on some code
18:29.52yukonbobheh -- nothing new there...
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18:31.38yukonbobbrlcad: re: gsoc converstations -- where are those occuring?
18:32.03yukonbobis currently at MentorHome->ApplicationList
18:33.00brlcadyukonbob: they haven't started yet
18:33.05*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (i=5207211c@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron)
18:33.07brlcadotherwise, in the private comments for starters
18:34.46yukonbobalright -- cool
18:56.42brlcadand a lot of what we're saying could/should be said here :)
18:58.39brlcadso yeah, if someone wants a bug to work on for their patch -- see yukonbob  :)
18:58.52brlcadhe's got a good one that shouldn't be too hard
19:01.35yukonbob:)
19:01.57yukonbobbarks "Get your bugs! Get your bugs!! Bugs here!"
19:02.37yukonbobputs bug-cart away, heads out for coffee.
19:02.41yukonbobbbs
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19:18.15yukonbobreturns
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19:30.11spike_hola
19:35.06brlcadciao spike_
19:35.47spike_:-D glad they gave that extension, gives me time to write a patch
19:36.06spike_last week was a bad week homework wise for me
19:37.09brlcadnods
19:39.11PrezKennedybrlcad, im going to vegas next week!!
19:39.38brlcadi heard, vegas baby
19:50.01PrezKennedyi heard my bro might be there this summer
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19:52.38PrezKennedyyou gonna have him program up a storm brlcad? make him wish he had gone into art instead? ;)
20:08.04brlcadPrezKennedy: hopefully :)
20:08.15brlcadif he ever calls that is, still in his hands
20:09.23PrezKennedyim talking to him on google talk, maybe he'll jump in here
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20:15.59Stephenso I heard you like mudkips
20:16.45brlcadhowdy Stephen
20:16.50StephenHowdy Sean
20:17.14brlcadmudkip ponies
20:17.20Stephenheh
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21:09.26yukonbobrebuilds 7.10.4
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21:44.24``Erik*whew* finally all caught up
21:44.29``Erikaaannnnndddd, it's about time to start getting ready to leave :D
21:47.51yukonbobsmiles
21:48.16``Erikyou fools sure generate a lot of line noise in a mere 5 days :D
21:52.32``Erikok, later kids :)
21:52.42pacman87bye Erik
21:52.49andrecastelocya Erik
21:58.29andrecastelohey brlcad... could you give me some pointers on how to implement that center point patch ??
22:19.41yukonbobq: wrt to the "image and signal processing" of BRL-CAD (as described on front page of site) -- what are examples of these?
22:23.01brlcadandrecastelo: you mean center of presented area or something else?
22:23.35brlcadrun rtarea and see src/rt/viewarea.c
22:23.44andrecastelobrlcad: yes, the center of a presented area.. the mathematics involved are rather trivial (median point)
22:23.45andrecastelook thanks
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22:24.44brlcadyukonbob: there are over a hundred image and signal processing tools
22:25.18brlcadlow/high pass filters, convolutions, transforms, etc
22:25.30yukonbobinteresting -- /me can't imagine how those work wrt visual data, or interrogating geometry, but recognizes all those from audio work...
22:26.19yukonbobcan you tell me where one my want to convolve two signals w/i the BRL-CAD framework?
22:26.40brlcadyukonbob: think of basic image filters in the gimp or photoshop
22:26.47brlcadsimilar processing
22:26.57yukonbobnods -- alright :)
22:27.44brlcadsome are 1D, some 2D
22:28.18yukonbobone more q: regarding the above -- does that type of processing typically have professional/scientific use, and if "yes", what might such a use be?
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22:48.16brlcadyukonbob: individually, I'm not sure I'd characterize them that way altough some of them probably have been
22:49.18brlcadcollectively, though, they are tied together to perform more complex opertations like performing noise reduction or feature extraction
22:51.05brlcadsrc/sig and src/util have many of them
22:56.05``Erikwonders how many are also used on non-optical data O.o
22:56.27*** join/#brlcad Stephen (n=Stephen@resnet-236-6.resnet.UMBC.EDU)
22:57.04``Eriklike one of the things BRL-CAD is used for is radio signal propogation (imagine every cell tower is a 'light source', now do a photon map or path trace run (or straight radio) to see where in a scene you get reception)
22:57.18``Erikor radar, or ...
23:14.11``Erikso, uh
23:14.23``ErikI'm looking at this mentor dashboard thingymajigger, and, uh,shtuff
23:14.32brlcadmmhmm?
23:15.41``Erikhard to find shit, they layed it out silly :D
23:15.53brlcadyeah
23:15.55``Erikdo they provide guidance on pre-submission comments? or is that project specific?
23:16.02brlcadit's generally accepted that it sucks in many many ways
23:17.21brlcadbut there's really not much that can be done about it
23:17.22``Eriklike, is "dawn, dude, you can't call it libpg, that's postgres", or is that an irrelevent technical detail?
23:17.22brlcadI was pretty vocal last year, but it's really got to go through their machinery/infrastructure and just has features added as needed (and this year the web dev got in an accident so he's out for the rest of the year)
23:17.29brlcadcomments are project specific
23:17.29``Erikeck, hope he's doing ok
23:17.54brlcadif you want to ask him that, go for it
23:17.59*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu)
23:18.02brlcadthough I believe postgres is actually libpq
23:18.04``Erikok, sooo, url for mentor guidance?
23:18.08``Erikoi, leebert
23:18.11``Erikmebbe
23:18.28iraytraceevening
23:19.24brlcadi have ranking criteria written up, but ranking doesn't begin until apps close
23:19.34``Eriksomeone marked on -10
23:19.36``Erikone
23:20.01brlcadso the point now is really just to critique them, have them explain things -- there's a section for mentor-private comments too
23:20.02``Eriksees a lot of libpg and a lot of libpq for postgresql stuff
23:20.07``Erikok
23:20.16brlcadyeah, I think all thouse libpg references are typos
23:20.25brlcadpostgres docs say libpq
23:20.43brlcadthe -10 is a bug
23:20.57``Erikmebbe
23:20.59brlcadthat one was marked invalid (as it had no content) then restored
23:21.18brlcadcan't fix it till later
23:25.35``Erikit looks like all the extras like to call themselves "libpg-xxx"
23:25.47``Eriklibpg-java libpg-tcl libpg-perl
23:26.22``Erikterse names lend themselves to conflicts and confusion, 'sall I'm sayin' :D
23:27.14brlcadyeah, I know bout the wrappers
23:27.30brlcadfor the lib itself though -- I actually couldn't find a non-petty conflict
23:27.51brlcadotherwise, suggest something better :)
23:29.29``Erikheh
23:29.52``Erikdon't dare me, dude, I'll be shooting my mouth off about libbrlutil libbrlmath, libbrlrt :D *duck*
23:30.26iraytrace?rl?
23:30.52brlcadmeant for the parametric equations library :P
23:31.01``Erikyeah, but if I start, I'll keep going :D
23:31.11brlcadotherwise, highly bikeshed at rather irrelevant at this point :)
23:31.16``Erikayup
23:31.42``ErikI haven't looked in depth at any applications, so I can't make the nuclear power plant, just bitch about the color
23:33.09``Erikmetropolis in c++? hrm, would require a c++ compiler for liboptical, but we already inflict that on librt :/
23:34.12``Erikthis raspberry hefeweizen is, uh, kinda gross
23:35.07brlcadc++ is already a forgone requirement for brep now
23:35.17iraytraceUm, librt requires a c++ compiler?  What has been going on this year?
23:35.21brlcadMLT wouldn't necessarily use optical
23:35.49iraytraceOK, MLT, I was worried it was Metropolis, the movie.
23:36.24``Erikwhich metropolis movie? fritz lang's is a damn good flick
23:37.05``Eriklibrt has a .cpp file for talking to OpenNURBS, iraytrace
23:39.11``Erikoh, the rhino to .g converter "seems to work", but segs on rt somewhere in opennurbs, I threw out the idea of writing a little program to load itout of the .g and print out all the information possible so we can look over it for something we know to be 'weird'
23:39.15``Erikfyi
23:39.58iraytraceYeah, the Fritz Lang one.
23:40.31yukonbob``Erik: re: non-optical data (ie: radio signal) -- that's interesting, because one of the things I was thinking about that's probably not a "traditional" BRL-CAD application is using it to generate an impulse-response for a room, for use with audio applications... the impulse response could be used to convolve a raw audio signal, and the results would be as if that original raw signal were "played" in the "room
23:40.47yukonbob" that the original impulse response were generated from...
23:41.27yukonbobcamera == listener
23:41.31``Erikthat'd be interesting, but it could be challenging to handle constructive and destructive interference from reflected waves
23:41.46yukonboblight location == location of impulse that we'll map
23:42.14yukonbobno matter how constructrive/destrcutive is handled, it'd probably be "interesting", I guess...
23:42.33iraytraceThere's been a fair bit of work on "wave tracing" out of UNC the last year or so if you're interested in sound propagation.
23:42.51yukonbobNorth Carolina?
23:43.03``Erikyeah, they're a bigger name in raytracing and graphics
23:43.35iraytraceYes Univ. North Carolina Chapel Hill.
23:44.21iraytraceThough their talent pool has gotten decimated like everyone else recently.
23:45.23``Erikinvidia (misspelling intentional) vs intel, wee
23:45.32brlcad``Erik: the 3dm-g isn't done, just started for that matter
23:46.21``ErikI know, but it "does something" and freaks rt out, so looking at the something it does seems like the next step to my uninitiated arse :D
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080403

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080403

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01:09.30yukonbobis there such a thing as "phase" in light? ie: if I've got two sine waves, but one is phase-shifted 180-degrees (actually making it a cosine wave), and I add them together, I get 0 at all points. Is there anything similar w/ virtual light processing?
01:10.48``Erikum, double-slit experiment seems to indicate that it kinda looks that way, but afaik, there's never been any interference detected O.o
01:11.37``Erikwell, no
01:11.50``Erikhur, double slit demonstrates constructive and destructive interference of light
01:12.53``Erik<-- goes back to watching futurama and waiting for his dinner to finish baking
01:13.36yukonbobis just wondering more about what you said re: the interference of light, and me using it as a model of audio-processing... phase is important in that regard.
01:16.21``Erikhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment
01:16.24``Erikfun reading
01:16.50``Erikearly physics class material, when ya do em/optics
02:09.18``Erikyay southpark
02:11.53pacman87yukonbob: i'm guessing brlcad only simulates light as a particle, not a wave
02:12.16pacman87and you can only get the constructive/destructive interference from the wave behavior of light
03:07.53yukonbobpacman87: I bet you're right re: particle, and understand we'd need wave behaviour; I wonder how one could use colour effectively as a paramter in this case... because we don't need it to represent sound frequency in this case...
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03:26.20pacman87yukonbob: you'd need frequency and phase shift information for each of the current 'particle' rays in order to simulate wave superposition
03:27.48pacman87you could use frequency for color.  for that, you'd have to figure out how each surface affects the frequency of the sounds reflected/transmitted through it, and apply those to the material's color properties
03:29.07pacman87for phase shift, you could keep track of the total 'length' of the ray from source to eye, and scale the direction vector of the ray depending on the speed of sound through the medium
03:29.33pacman87where 'length' would corrolate to the total time passed
03:30.12pacman87that way you could see the whole echo effect, instead of just superposition from a constant wave source
03:32.18pacman87and if you're simulating human hearing at a location, you'd just use two points as the eye for the rays (or ears in this case) to get left/right channels
03:33.10pacman87so you could ignore the viewing screen used for ray tracing, as you wouldnt' need an image for sound, just the superposition of all the 'rays' at the point of each ear
03:33.45pacman87(sorry for the wall of text, hope that makes sense)
03:53.05yukonboblikes this wall of text :) It's all interesting; I'll keep all this in mind and think about it... I find the potential here quite interesting...
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05:02.40pacman87yukonbob: if you've got any more questions, feel free to ask me.  i work as a tutor for engineering physics, so i know my way around the topic :)
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06:02.00brlcadcompletes a flyer, albeit late
06:34.44yukonbobpacman87: very cool -- are you going to be around here long-term, or only for GSoC, or ??
06:35.55yukonbobpacman87: in any event, I'll apply myself a bit here (I'm feeling very fragmented for quality time these days :P), and see if I can somehow get a basic model of this (or see what's entailed) and work toward a proof of concept, or at least an interesting toy :)
06:46.09brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/gsoc/brlcad_gsoc2008_flyer.pdf
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11:18.51mafmhi
11:19.39MinuteElectronhello
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13:00.53*** join/#brlcad Axman6_ (n=Axman6@210-9-137-93.netspeed.com.au)
13:07.12*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:18.37``Erik*yawn*
13:26.45*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669639.dsl.bell.ca)
13:43.54brlcadmorning folks
13:48.42louipcgood morning
13:56.39``Erikis that User:Jude- page a duplicate of his actual gsoc08 submission? if so; damn impressive
14:01.33clock_I wonder what is the actual Google's motivation behind the summer of code
14:01.57clock_Does Google get copyright on the code produced?"
14:03.08MinuteElectronThey don't need motivation. :)
14:03.12MinuteElectron*;)
14:03.51MinuteElectronIt could just be for the hell of it, and they're getting a hell of a lot of publicity through it; they also use some of the things that are being improved by it.
14:04.36clock_google has a publicity on every desktop
14:04.39clock_Do they need anymore?
14:04.44clock_How can Google use gEDA?
14:05.38MinuteElectrongEDA?
14:06.18brlcad``Erik: no his submission has other (additional) details
14:07.13``Erikheh, companies always need more (good) publicity, plus google gets a chance to give ms a black eye AND lets them see who can code for recruiting
14:07.39``Erikwow, jude is pretty close to a gold standard there
14:08.08clock_sorry
14:08.11clock_BRL-CAD
14:08.25clock_I mixed with a different project that is also in gsoc and I use on Ronja
14:08.32clock_uses a lot of software on Ronja
14:09.02``Eriktoyed with geda many years ago, seemed neat but a little underpowered at the time... "promising"
14:09.20clock_I use it on Ronja
14:10.09clock_for the whole development from testing ideas in a circuit simulator through schematics, partlists, shopping lists, populating lists, printed boards to previewing the actual Gerber files that get sent to the manufacture
14:10.41clock_I just built a wall holder for a 30kg monitor as a space frame construction
14:10.53clock_But I don't think I'll take the pains of constructing a BRL-CAD model of it
14:11.36clock_unless I wrote a special C program for modeling space frames
14:11.49``Erikprocdb ftw
14:12.00clock_because adjusting every rung manually until it fits without visible artifacts is too labor intensive
14:12.52clock_BTW]
14:13.05clock_can you sort the following materials according to their strength/weight ratio?
14:13.27clock_titanium,steel, aluminium
14:14.21``Erikum, there're many forms of each of those... and different kinds of strengths... and you probably want density, not weight... the numbers should be available for the variants you're interested in
14:14.37clock_density sure
14:15.55``Erikquick google givs me http://www.matweb.com/
14:16.42``Erikwould think that cost and easy of working with would also be big factors
14:17.46clock_Seems that the web is suffering from IIS
14:18.04clock_What I wanted to point out that steel is actually better in this regard than aluminium
14:18.11clock_and titanium is only marginally better than steel
14:18.31clock_According to a Wikipedia article
14:18.35``Erikuh huh?
14:18.52``Erikand it depends on the kind of strengths
14:18.59clock_ductile strength
14:19.03``Eriktensile, shearing, ductile, ...
14:19.16clock_btw what's the difference between tensile and ductile?
14:19.31clock_tensile is like for cables
14:19.33clock_but ductile?
14:19.36clock_For ducts?
14:19.42clock_ducks
14:20.29``ErikI think tensil is any pulling that breaks, where ductile needs actual necking behavior to qualify (ductile is a subset of tensil)? I d'no
14:21.06``ErikI d'no, I'm not a material scientist :)
14:21.49``Erikall'z I know is there's a lot more to the notion of material "strength" than one number
14:21.53``Erikand now I go to a meeting :D
14:24.22*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.70.118)
14:24.35andrecastelogood morning
14:28.30MinuteElectrontest
14:28.41MinuteElectronoops, sorry
14:32.15pacman87for tensile strengths, there's the yield point strength, and the ultimate tensile strength
14:32.41clock_yield point is the point of plastic deformation?
14:32.45pacman87yield point is the value of stress where a material undergoes plastic deformation
14:32.49pacman87just typing that...
14:33.03clock_What if you reach just about the yield point, but 10,000 times an hour?
14:33.11clock_Will it creep?
14:33.13pacman87cyclicak loading?\
14:33.18pacman87cyclical loading
14:33.19clock_Yes
14:33.51clock_Do I have to derate for cyclical loading?
14:33.53pacman87if you reach the yield point, the material with deform
14:34.14clock_According to the table on Wikipedia, wood has much worse specific strength than steel
14:35.33clock_That means, if I have a bridge of wood and replace the truss members by steel, the bridge can weight less, right?
14:35.54pacman87i'm not sure what defination of 'specific strength' they're using
14:35.59clock_I mean while keeping the rated strength of the bridge
14:36.06clock_ratio of the strength to density
14:36.34pacman87then yes
14:36.46pacman87because you'd need smaller beams to carry the same loads
14:36.56clock_Now the strength of the structure also depends on choosing suitable geometry
14:37.11clock_If you have a small bridge over a creek in a for of a single plank of wood
14:37.18pacman87but if you reduce the cross-sectional area too much, the bending moments can become a problem
14:37.25clock_and replace the plank with a space frame or truss or whatever, then you can save weight as well, right?
14:37.49pacman87most likely, yes
14:38.07clock_Cause one structure where maximum strength and minimum weight is aimed is a skateboard
14:38.34clock_Not only it is made of inferior material - wood - but also has an inferior geometry - a board
14:38.56clock_If the board in skateboard were replaced by a steel welded truss, the skateboard could weight less while supporting the same weight, right?
14:39.07pacman87adding a truss to the top surface would impede the functionality
14:39.12pacman87possibly
14:39.25pacman87so i'd have to be to the bottom to allow you to skate
14:39.25clock_you could use only a thin deck with a steel truss underneath
14:39.38pacman87it's possible
14:40.00pacman87but it'd almost certianly be more expensive (materials cost and manufacturing cost)
14:40.11clock_and it would be less flexible than wood
14:40.16clock_which is good for handling
14:40.16pacman87right
14:40.42clock_I don't want to tell my skateboard "turn!" and him responding "wobbly wobbly wobbly rubbery rubbery nothing!"
14:42.06pacman87wooden skateboards have a curved underside, right?
14:42.21pacman87doesn't really know too much about skateboards
14:42.21clock_some of them
14:43.01clock_I built a space frame holder for my optical datalink
14:43.17clock_It's lightweight but if you smash the end with a hammer, it feels like solid rock
14:43.28pacman87having a pair of steel trusses underneath might make grinding down a handrail or something a bit more 'interesting'
14:43.31clock_space frames seem to be awesome
14:43.45clock_I mean a slalom skateboard, not for tricks
14:43.58pacman87ah, then it makes more sense
14:44.13pacman87you mean you dont' want sparks flying out behind you from the metal-metal contact?
14:44.26clock_I should get sparks when running off curbs
14:44.51pacman87well, you'd need enough energy in the impact
14:45.24clock_making trusses is surprisingly simple
14:45.29pacman87to shave off the small metal pieces, and give enough heat from friction to start them oxidizing
14:45.34clock_you take a tape measure measure centimeters cut a stick and weld in place
14:45.35clock_repeat
14:45.49clock_no precision measurements, no drilling, no alignment, nothing
14:46.10clock_I mean space frames
14:47.15clock_space frames are used in the satellites because of the optimum weight/strength ratio, right?
14:47.39pacman87probably
14:47.49clock_that explains why the holder looks so "cosmic"
14:49.21pacman87though if you're making a frame for your board, you'd probably want to do more calculations than just welding pieces on
14:49.37pacman87so you can optimize the weight/strength tradeoffs
14:50.19clock_calculations take time
14:50.58pacman87how else will you know if it will break under impact loads, or whether it's way too strong (and heavy)?
14:51.03clock_I can always take a plexi take some members out and replace them with a different thickness
14:51.15clock_every skateboard breaks under an impact load
14:51.22clock_if you stand in the middle and jump, you have suddenly two
14:51.28pacman87depends on how much of an impact...
14:52.04clock_if it's too heavy doesn't matter, you can use it for taking walls dow
14:52.11clock_just let it runn off a hill into a wall...
14:52.35pacman87battering ram style?
14:52.38clock_would be fun to make a motorized vehicle in a form of a large skateboard that would be steered by leaning body weight
14:52.48clock_I am sure the road authority wouldn't be very happy from that
14:53.00pacman87motorized skateboards already exist
14:53.44clock_with steel frame?
14:55.26pacman87http://blag.xkcd.com/2008/03/14/new-electric-skateboard/
14:55.44pacman87he's got links to a few manufacturers
15:03.52clock_I wonder what would happen with a lowrider clearance
15:04.35clock_would probably make sparks on hitting protrusions from the sidewalk
15:05.01mafmbrlcad: are you doing evaluations of the applications already, or something like that?
15:05.48pacman87clock_: you'd wear out the bottom of your frame, but you probably wouldn't be going fast enough to generate sparks
15:06.40clock_pacman87: what's are the sparking requirements?
15:07.00clock_speed*pressure>something?
15:07.05pacman87sparks = small pieces of metal undergoing oxidization
15:07.34pacman87like lighting steel wool on fire
15:07.49clock_is it oxidization? Isn't it overheating?
15:08.03pacman87oxidization of metals is exothermic
15:09.08pacman87and you have to increase the temperature of the small pieces to above the activation energy for the reaction
15:11.19clock_so it's like thermal runaway oxidization?
15:12.01clock_what if you file up like 100kg of steel fillings under inert atmosphere and then open it to the air and set on fire?
15:12.05*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487635F.dip.t-dialin.net)
15:12.11clock_filing
15:12.13prasad_waves
15:12.14clock_filings
15:13.10pacman87pretty much
15:13.28pacman87and they have to be small enough to have a high surface area/volume ratio
15:13.59pacman87because the reaction takes place on the surface, and there's a lot of heat lost to the air it's flying through
15:14.18pacman87and there has to be enough heat left to continue the reaction
15:22.28pacman87yukonbob: there's more primitives on the list than GSoC has time for, so i'll be sticking around to work on them
15:23.52pacman87also, if my GSoC app hasn't gotten any comments, does that mean i'm perfect, or that no one's gotten around to it yet?
15:48.26yukonbobheh
15:48.39yukonboblet's say "perfect" for now, and enjoy the glow.
15:52.28pacman87:)
16:02.03*** join/#brlcad Stephen (n=Stephen@resnet-236-6.resnet.UMBC.EDU)
16:15.52yukonbobhello, Stephen
16:16.10Stephenhowdy
16:18.18CIA-35BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30620 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Solve derivative equations for zero, not -1.
16:30.32hippieindamakin8:) awesome pacman87
16:31.33*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (i=5207211c@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron)
16:37.06hippieindamakin8pacman87 when u have cyclic loads or fatigue loads.. it is not neccessary that it fails when it reaches it ultimate strength
16:37.49hippieindamakin8it follows the Modified Goldman Line on a graph of stress alternating vs stress midrange
17:17.20*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (i=5207211c@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron)
17:18.48``Erikrecalls that plastic deformation changes the characteristics... "work hardening" I think is the term
17:19.46louipcindeed
17:20.39brlcadmafm: some yes, of course -- students start being evaluated from the moment we meet :)
17:20.56archivistsure does ``Erik
17:21.38mafmbrlcad: I mean that there's something about the ranking, but no comments or anything -- and anyway I didn't start to look into the patch yet, with all this deadline extension
17:22.01brlcadyukonbob: yeah, no comments is generally a good thing .. not necessarily perfect in the least, but those applications are probably higher in the list
17:22.17mafmI had to rehash priorities, like filling my tax papers so the government doens't put me in jail :)
17:22.18brlcadmafm: understand
17:22.56pacman87believes ``Erik is correct wrt "work hardening" aka "strain hardening"
17:23.41pacman87the textbook that covers cyclical loads is currently being used as my monitor stand, and i didnt' really feel like pulling it out
17:24.20``ErikI have documentation about it, but it's in a special niche, where there's a rapid thermal issue as well :/
17:25.18louipcwork hardening is very commonly referred to in the machine shop
17:26.14``Erikhasn't done anything in a machineshop since an intro class 15 years ago
17:26.32louipcit can happen if you're cutting with a dull tool which instead of cutting actually hardens the material and dulls the tool even more
17:28.31louipcthe principle can also be used to harden the material surface when you don't really need/want to heat treat
17:29.30archivistit means a minimum cut depth on a lathe to get under the previous passes work hardening
17:32.08brlcadwonders who costa is
17:33.02hippieindamakin8hates to talk about machining..
17:33.13hippieindamakin8had a machining exam today :(
17:34.14yukonbobre: perfect applications -- /me was being a bit facetious, but thx for the clarification
17:34.48brlcadknows, wasn't commenting on your comments :)
17:34.58brlcadtwo new ones in
17:35.22yukonbobnice
17:37.19pacman87what topics?
17:37.55brlcadOO API and global illumination
17:40.54prasad_brlcad in gsoc eh
17:40.56prasad_nice
17:45.46brlcadprasad_: howdy prasad_
17:46.47mafmbye
17:47.13*** join/#brlcad Stephen (n=Stephen@resnet-236-6.resnet.UMBC.EDU)
17:48.05prasad_hey hey
17:48.15prasad_what's the news from apg
17:48.16prasad_:)
17:51.30brlcadoh, more of the same
17:51.34brlcadless of the same
17:52.02brlcaddoesn't care -- it's all about the BRL-CAD, which is going great :)
17:57.22*** part/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669639.dsl.bell.ca)
18:00.53*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-76-72.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:37.20prasad_heh cool
18:37.41prasad_hmm GL UI
18:37.42prasad_;)
18:38.10prasad_too bad we don't support oss
18:40.50prasad_who's heading to siggraph btw
18:41.15brlcadyeah, that's a damn shame -- you should :)
18:41.21brlcadthat's not known yet
18:42.16prasad_hopefully i get to go
18:42.32prasad_think one of my coworkers is presenting
18:59.29brlcadcan't see himself not going
18:59.54``Erikbastage
19:00.34prasad_``Erik: level 70?
19:01.00brlcadhave always seen it as a job requirement (to let me go)
19:01.11brlcadi'd pay my own way or consider a different job otherwise
19:01.17``Erikhuh?
19:01.31prasad_``Erik: no more wow?
19:01.32``Erikoh, wow? uh, twice over :(
19:01.40prasad_damn
19:01.48``Erikpheer my nerdiness.
19:01.55prasad_indeed
19:02.06prasad_got a wii
19:02.13prasad_stopped caring for pc games
19:02.14prasad_:\
19:02.16``Erikheh
19:02.21brlcadheh
19:02.41brlcadso still playing with your wii then eh?
19:02.57prasad_ever since i got it
19:02.59prasad_;)
19:03.03``Erikbetter than sucking bawls ;>
19:03.18prasad_the wife plays with a lot too
19:03.20prasad_so it's fun
19:03.22brlcadyou hands must get tired
19:03.49prasad_quite a workout
19:04.30``Erikgoes about upgrading the new bz again
19:05.30prasad_is mike t still with arl?
19:05.35prasad_s/with/at
19:05.36``Erikyup
19:05.49prasad_is he active in boost devel?
19:06.11prasad_had to use it for a hashmap, but it didn't have an implementation
19:06.14prasad_just proposed spec
19:06.25``Erikhttp://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Misha&n=Hurk
19:06.29``Erikhttp://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Misha&n=Slugeater
19:06.32``Erikhangs his head in shame
19:06.55prasad_heh
19:07.05prasad_blizz is using us
19:07.19prasad_hope to get some alpha/beta access
19:07.31``Erikcool, can you say for what?
19:07.59prasad_dont think it's public knowledge so not yet
19:08.10``Erikaight :)
19:08.12prasad_2 AAA titles
19:08.21``Erikmeh, console shit, who cares
19:08.23``ErikO:-)
19:08.32prasad_hehe
19:08.58prasad_when they ever make d3, i'll be the first to break nda
19:09.11``Erikevery since the paddles were traded in for D pads, consoles suck :)
19:09.37``ErikI never like diablo... was a big starcraft fan, still play it once in a rare while
19:09.49prasad_well then ;)
19:09.51``Erikwc2 was fun as a goofy distraction
19:09.58prasad_ex blizz made hellgate london
19:10.14prasad_supposedly spiritual successor of d2
19:10.18prasad_sucked bad
19:10.23prasad_tech issues mostly
19:10.27``Erikbut, naturally, the best game ever is bzflag... O.o
19:10.35prasad_didn't look as fun
19:10.58prasad_we made a 'game' for gdc
19:11.02prasad_in 3 weeks
19:11.14prasad_came out nicely
19:11.16``ErikI bet it was a lot cooler than my 1 day pong
19:12.11prasad_http://www.gametrailers.com/player/31159.html?type=
19:12.17prasad_flash reqd
19:12.25prasad_doesn't really show our stuff
19:12.30prasad_so meh
19:12.35prasad_only footage loose on the interwebs
19:12.52prasad_well the hud is ours :o
19:13.57*** join/#brlcad CIA-33 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
19:17.54prasad_hah crit happens
19:17.57prasad_cute
19:18.01prasad_:p
19:18.47``Erikheh, a parody guild came up on the evil side, "crit doesn't happen"... have also seen "I'd crit that" running around O.o
19:18.47prasad_horde ftw
19:18.49prasad_all of my chars were horde
19:18.51prasad_moooO
19:18.55``Erikheh
19:19.02``ErikFRRR DE HRRRD
19:19.42``Erikdon't milk the tauren, they enjoy it too much O.o :D
20:01.08*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (i=127@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu)
20:29.08*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
20:29.27*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
20:57.31CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30621 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Still some edge effects when testing parameters, but much closer.
21:32.20*** join/#brlcad Harriss (n=Harriss@201-42-114-240.dsl.telesp.net.br)
21:40.30CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30622 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (archer/archer.bat mged/mged.bat): Update version.
21:41.18CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30623 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/nsis/brlcad.nsi: Added desktop icons for mged and archer. Minor cleanup.
21:43.53CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30624 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: Added variables for keeping track of versions.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080404

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080404

01:33.57*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:04.46*** join/#brlcad Daytona (n=jra@c-68-55-36-65.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
02:06.33Daytonaprasad_: Hey, how's it going?
02:28.01*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu)
02:41.13poolioyikes. I accidentally just removed my brlcad folder because the box I was ssh'd into has the same PS1 :'(
02:56.02yukonbob:P
02:57.42pooliohopes he backed up everything
03:14.19poolioSo I passed configure and when I went to building it failed because it could not find zlib.h. I installed zlib, but shouldn't configure have caught this?
03:15.53poolio(it correctly detects that I do not have a working zlib though, maybe it should be pointed to brlcad's zlib.h?)
03:20.10poolioso the problem appears to be that I had working zlib runtime and not the development headers...
04:18.34brlcadhello Harriss
04:18.41brlcadand howdy poolio
04:20.14*** join/#brlcad wuxia (n=wuxia@unaffiliated/wuxia)
04:20.15brlcadyeah, the test is technically for both libs and (separately) for headers and (separately) for run-time functionality .. at least usually those three have to pass for a given lib
04:20.28brlcadotherwise it doesn't have what it needs
04:20.33brlcadhello wuxia
04:21.00wuxiacan anyone expain what the brlcad rendering algorithm does? i.e. does it only require that the geometry support a 'does this ray intersect with this shape' query? [I'm trying to find something similar to 'generative modeling language' or synder's 'genmod' ]
04:22.35brlcaddepends what the "it" is in your sentence
04:23.32brlcadin terms of implementing or adding new primitives, they basically just have to answer the "does this ray intersect with this shape"
04:23.36wuxiahey, that's a good bot
04:23.42wuxiawhat algorithm? alice? elizra ?
04:23.54brlcad~fishslap wuxia
04:23.54ibotACTION slaps wuxia up side the head with a wet fish.
04:24.42wuxiaa human would have kicked me
04:25.18brlcadso comparing against all primitives, it ends up with lots of "segments" -- those are weaved together per the CSG rules
04:25.40wuxiagotcha :-)
04:25.54wuxiais there any good interfaces between pbrt and brlcad?
04:26.04wuxiaI feel that pbrt does ray tracing better, but brlcad is better at modeling
04:26.48brlcadpbrt does a lot of things fundamentally differently
04:28.15wuxiais there any good bridge for taking a gbrlcad model
04:28.20wuxiaand rendering it in pbrt?
04:28.31brlcadif generating pretty pictures is your goal, they certainly have a better global illum model integrated -- but then iirc they are almost exclusively explicit geometry models and not a shotline-capable solid geometry ray-tracer (evaluating all the way along through materials)
04:28.48brlcadi'm not aware of any "good" bridge yet
04:29.01brlcadmostly because of that implicit vs explicit geometry issue
04:29.02wuxiawhat is 'shotline-capable solid geometry ray-tracer' ?
04:30.17brlcadit's a fair bit to explain, but basically a ray-trace engine that takes solidity into account -- not just surface-based or (the most common) first-hit based ray-trace interfaces
04:30.43wuxiafor a surface-based
04:30.47wuxiaI need only provide "does this ray intersect"
04:30.57brlcadbrl-cad's librt ray-trace engine is a full-path shotliner that will either report first-hit or all segments along the ray
04:31.04wuxiawhat more complicated thing does "shotline-capable solid geometry ray-tracer' require me?
04:31.10wuxiaah
04:31.14wuxiaand one way to do csg
04:31.19wuxiais to report all semgnets along the ray?
04:31.25wuxiaand then do the csg operations
04:31.29wuxiato decide which one it actually hit?
04:32.07brlcadactually you can evaluate the csg with just first hit or with all segments
04:32.18brlcadthat's not really different
04:32.31brlcadi'm talking about other purposes of ray-tracing, not just generating pictures
04:32.41wuxiaoh
04:32.45wuxialike firing a bullet into a tank?
04:32.57brlcadsure
04:33.13brlcador simply answering the question of "how much of this material is on this shotline"
04:34.09brlcadwith an explicit ray-engine, you end up with all sorts of analytic/analysis questions that are harder to guarantee without solid geometry
04:34.48wuxiawhy is that
04:34.51wuxiagiven a boundary
04:34.54brlcadif you assertively have "crack-free" geometry, and aren't inside things when you start a ray
04:35.03wuxiawhy can't I get the 'solid geometry' by looking at entry and exit points?
04:36.27brlcadmostly because of numerics -- if your geometry isn't actually cracked (i.e. non-solid), there is a higher probability of numerical cracks due to floating point issues on the seams on the boundaries
04:36.50brlcadsolid geometry entails a *guarantee* that there is no crack, numeric or otherwise
04:37.23brlcadimplicit geometry implicitly guarantees this, other CAD systems provide the guarantee through "crack-free" BREP implementations
04:37.38brlcadsomething that only generates pictures doesn't really have to care
04:37.57brlcadanyway, why you ask? :)
04:38.38brlcadthere are ways to extract an explicit geometry model from brl-cad geometry that you could undoubtedly feed to pbrt via one of their importers
04:39.06wuxiai want to render procedural sci-fi cities
04:39.07brlcadit conceivably wouldn't be that hard to write an exporter if you have their file format (especially if they support primitive descriptions)
04:39.16wuxiabrl-cad looks awesome for geometry modeling; pbrt for rendering
04:41.35brlcadwuxia: for what it's worth, pbrt looks great because most of their shots have global illumination calcs turned on (which librt doesn't implement, though it is a gsoc topic)
04:42.21brlcadthere's only two screenshots that use the global illum renderer we do have: http://brlcad.org/gallery/s/renderings/humvee.png.html  and  http://brlcad.org/gallery/s/renderings/stryker_slat.jpg.html
04:42.57brlcadbrute force solutions
04:43.10brlcadand required conversion to brep polygonal format
04:43.21wuxiawhy brep first?
04:43.27wuxiawhy can't global illumination be done on csg's ?
04:47.19brlcadthere's no reason it can't
04:47.41brlcadit just hasn't been done yet, that's why it's a gsoc suggested task
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04:55.01pooliobrlcad: wait, so then why did it fail compiling but pass configure? in config output it says it's using system zlib, but I fail the tests
05:01.04pooliobasically, I was just upset to see the build die :)
05:04.27brlcadas you should be, build failures indicate something is probably wrong in configure :)
05:07.39brlcadthat third test -- the functionality test -- is either weak or non-existent for zlib
05:10.59pooliobah. I want configure to stop and print in big bold letters that I should not continue :) I ran configure and looked away, and the summary looked all fine and dandy
05:13.58brlcadthat's what I mean -- it's probably missing a test
05:14.02brlcadit normally does halt
05:14.44poolioah Ok
05:14.49pooliothanks and sorry for the whining :)
05:15.10brlcadhum, was just looking
05:15.15brlcadthere is a functionality test
05:15.26brlcadso "something else" is wrong
05:15.39poolioerrr, I also just realized the build failed again later
05:16.17brlcadcan you post your build log and config.log files?
05:16.22pooliothis is a trunk checkout by the way
05:16.38poolioyeah, do I uninstalled the zlib1g-dev package and am going to regenerate the broken zlib.h error
05:21.19pooliobrlcad: build is gonna take a little while, I'm on my shiny new, not that fast, x300 :P
05:23.15brlcadheh
05:29.20pooliobrlcad: config.log: http://poolio.org/files/config.log and build: http://poolio.org/files/zlib_error.txt
05:38.37brlcadpoolio: try editing src/other/tkimg/png/Makefile.am and add:          ${LIBZ_CPPFLAGS} \    after the PNG_CPPFLAGS line
05:39.13pooliobrlcad: alright, I'm waiting for the build to finish with zlib-dev installed, so gimme a few minutes.
05:39.30pooliois feeling the grind of the 1.2ghz for the first time
05:41.01CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30625 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkimg/png/Makefile.am: missing LIBZ_CPPFLAGS
05:41.35brlcadyeah, I'm betting that was the problem -- tkimg's png module's build rules didn't have the header search path
05:41.50brlcadthe configure tests worked, failed and was set to build
05:43.21poolioalrighty
05:47.38pooliobrlcad: http://poolio.org/files/htester_error.txt is what I'm getting with zlib working
05:58.10brlcaddidn't realize you're on ubuntu/debian?
05:59.14brlcadthey have a busted libtool, it incorrectly strips out linkage paths
05:59.46pooliosorry :(
06:00.00pooliois there an easy fix?
06:00.26brlcadother than installing an unmodified libtool from gnu?
06:00.37brlcadunmodified works without a hitch
06:01.58brlcadotherwise, I haven't completed debugging the libtool script itself to see if there's a good way to trick it or work around it
06:22.18pooliothat's weird, because when I was working on brlcad last summer I was using debian
06:24.28brlcadyeah, the build options have changed to not be excessively redundant -- there was a recursive redundant declaration of libraries pushed down to the binary LD line instead of relying on libtool's usual dependency tracking
06:25.03brlcadpushed down to the binary ld option, debian's mods don't come into play
06:25.27brlcadbut that's a bear to keep -- libraries listed dozens of times over per binary
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07:07.38pooliobrlcad: sounds like a good dev choice, but having a source install not function on a very popular distro is a bad decision :)
07:10.28brlcadof course
07:12.13brlcadsomeone(tm) really needs to see if there's some way to work around the problem
07:13.43brlcadbeing popular isn't a good excuse for being wrong too, the problem has been reported by others to debian devs and they refuse to fix it
07:15.25brlcadwe make workarounds for a lot of platform-specific stupidities, that one just isn't in the frequent testing rotation as nobody has stepped up to maintain the port
07:17.44brlcadso feel free to be that someone(tm) and fix it :)
07:18.08brlcadshouldn't be too hard to find a work-around
07:22.28pooliobrlcad: in a month or so I'll give it a shot :)
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09:54.40mafmhallo
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13:04.08brlcadhowdy mafm
13:05.17mafm:)
13:05.52``Erikno love for twingy's photon mapping, I see O.o
13:38.36mafmhmm, I have a linguistic question totally unrelated to the topic of the channel, may I?
13:39.43brlcadgo for it
13:41.38mafmif I'm studying a degree, say CS, what's the name of the individual parts composing it, as in Programming I, Networks, Distributed Systems, AI, etc, comprising typically one semester or a year, one hour per day or so? it's "courses"?
13:48.13brlcadyeah, those are your courses
13:48.51mafmhmm, and you're from USA right?
13:49.19brlcadi've lived in a number of places, and the usa is one of them
13:50.23mafmit's only to ask if you know if it's named the same across english-speaking languages
13:50.55brlcadtries to think what else you might call them
13:51.06mafmfor some reason I was calling it "subjects", but I don't know where I took it :D
13:51.18brlcadcourses, classes, seminars
13:51.36mafmmaybe it's that I directly translate from portuguese or something like that
13:51.37prasad_hey is daytona == jra?
13:51.41brlcadusually "seminar courses" are a specific type
13:51.44brlcadprasad_: yup
13:51.49prasad_ah missed him
13:52.14brlcadmafm: yeah, I think courses/classes are pretty much the terms
13:53.14mafmgood, thank you very much
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14:32.40mafmsvn: URL 'https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/trunk' doesn't exist
14:32.44mafmwhat do you use as trunk?
14:38.00poolio/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk
14:44.35mafmoh thanks
15:01.29brlcad~cadsvn
15:01.29ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
15:04.43mafmnot a light download, it seems :)
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16:00.22mafmhmm, the things using C++ in brl-cad are related to 3rd party tools?
16:03.56mafmand is it all in other/ 3rd party tools it seems?
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16:06.49mafmbrlcad: I have a problem compiling
16:11.21pooliomafm: are  you by any chance running a debian-based distro?
16:11.49mafmnope, I don't run degenerates
16:11.59mafmI use Debian itself :)
16:12.01pooliodebian is debian-based, no?
16:12.20mafmjust kidding :)
16:12.30mafmso what's the problem with debian then?
16:12.42pooliomafm: So I just had the same problem earlier... brlcad says debian uses a broken libtool, and there's no easy fix other than installing a clean libtool
16:12.56mafm:S
16:13.34mafmwhat's a clean libtool? different versions, vanilla without possible distro patches?
16:13.53pooliovanilla I would guess
16:14.48mafm/usr/bin/ld: warning: libtcl8.5.so, needed by ./.libs/libbu.so, not found (try using -rpath or -rpath-link)
16:14.48mafm./.libs/libbu.so: undefined reference to `Tcl_ResetResult'
16:14.48mafm./.libs/libbu.so: undefined reference to `Tcl_SetObjResult'
16:14.49mafm...
16:14.55mafmis this your error too?
16:23.57poolioYep.
16:25.40mafm:S
16:25.44mafmversion?
16:26.00mafmii  libtool                   1.5.26-1                  Generic library support script
16:40.28poolio1.5.26-2 here. It's more than just libtool, I tried out a vanilla libtool and that didn't fix it
16:41.27mafm:S
16:43.23pooliomafm: Just softlink libtcl8.5.so.0 to libtcl8.5.so for now
16:45.40mafmwhat vanilla libtool did you try? I installed the one from 'stable' distro, which is .22, and it just seems to work
16:46.02mafmor maybe it didn't reach the part failing yet, not sure :D
16:46.49pooliomafm: haven't tried vanilla, sorry
16:47.24mafmok
16:47.30mafmbut this .22 one seems to fix it, yuep
16:47.32mafm:)
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17:37.26mafmdoes anybody know if it's worth patching the 3rd party tools for compiler warnings/errors?
17:42.04``Erikyes, debian modifies libtool to "optimize" the link line
17:42.17``Erikthe effect is that they strip out critical information needed to compile BRL-CAD
17:43.26``Erikmafm: don't worry too much about language barriers, both brlcad and I have lived in non-english speaking countries for several years, we will ask if we don't think we understand what you intend to say...
17:45.37``Eriknow if I recall the issues with the debian libtool correctly from last time I chased that down, a system installed tcl85 will still work... and I THINK debian just picked up 85 into testing, d'no if that's floated to ubuntu or other derivatives just yet
17:45.57``Erikmay have to redo the debian script in BRL-CAD to use the system one
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17:55.52mafmthe language doubts were not meant to clear up misunderstandings, it's because I was updating my CV :)
17:56.29mafmwell, to avoid the hassle I just put that tcl8.5 dir in the ld.so.conf file
17:58.56mafmbah, a new related error :S
18:05.11``Erikoh?
18:05.51mafmbefore that ... in libbu you use a temp.c to make temporary files... why not use mktemp calls instead? aren't they portable enough?
18:06.36mafm``Erik: the new error is: http://rafb.net/p/YDu6XN14.html
18:37.01pooliomafm: I got there with the system libtool, linking libtcl8.5.so.0 to .so
18:41.18mafmbut it's not working for me
18:41.35mafmmaybe I'm missing some additional library or something
18:55.20``Eriklooks like libXi.so isn't being picked up for some reason :/
18:59.24mafm``Erik: in libbu you use a temp.c to make temporary files... why not use mktemp calls instead? aren't they portable enough?
19:00.07``Erikmktemp is actually bad, mkstemp is better
19:00.54``Erikmktemp also doesn't work on all platforms, like old obscure ones (crayos? vms?) or stupid ones (windows?) iirc
19:01.37``Erik*looklooklook*
19:01.44alex_joniheh, stupid :)
19:02.07mafmdoesn't work in windows?
19:02.09mafmhmm
19:02.23mafmthere was a similar issue with Aqsis
19:02.28``Erikah, looks like it's a "safe" wrapper for mkstemp() with file marshalling
19:02.50mafmI think that they used in there a relatively clean workaround, not so huge as in libbu
19:02.54``Erikand a very low level last ditch attempt
19:03.02``Erikhuge as bu? temp.c is tiny
19:03.18``Erikand works pretty much everywhere O.o :D
19:03.23mafmwell, I'm talking about 10 lines or so
19:03.34``Eriknotes that aqsis does not work on as many platforms as BRL-CAD
19:03.36mafmnot in the hundreds of lines
19:04.35``Erikmost of temp.c is error checking of some form or another *shrug*
19:04.40mafmwell, that's the question... it's in the ToDo or Buglist to remove that code, so I thought about that... but if it's not portable enough... :)
19:04.55``Erika lot of the portability isn't NEEDED anymore
19:05.05``Erikwe've stripped out some vax gould and crayos code already
19:05.21``Erikbecause no one uses 70's or 80's computers anymore
19:05.33mafm:)
19:06.00``Erikalso; few os's leave dangling file handles when an app is closed anymore
19:06.07mafmIn the TODO: * libbu routine to make a temp file reliably/consistently
19:06.31``Erikhrm, probably means brlcad spotted a place where mkstemp failed
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19:08.09CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30627 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: add gillich to the contributors list for his g-sat importer
19:08.28mafmI see
19:08.40mafmwell, I already produced a patch, even if not very useful
19:09.53mafmif I have time maybe I'll do something better during the selection process :)
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19:11.40yukonbobwaves in
19:12.30mafmhallo yukonbob
19:16.58mafmhave to go now
19:17.25mafmbye
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20:58.07CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30629 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.bat: Mods to get rid of complaints about nul.
20:58.07CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30630 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/archer.bat: Move "ECHO OFF" up in the file.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080405

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00:32.52brlcadpoolio: you would have had to of cleared out the build via distclean and rerun autogen.sh
00:36.44CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30632 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: bu_temp_file() _is_ a secure replacement to all of the various temp file routines. remote related todo entry.
00:40.41brlcad``Erik: windows does not have mkstemp() (nor anything similarly equivalent), so I implemented it
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02:35.34yukonbob??What!!!! Windows is missing a useful, security feature? Unpossible.
02:44.02``Erikah, it was only windows?
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03:29.10starseekerbreaths a sigh of deep relief - there are many quirks, different behavioral cases and a slew of features still to deal with, but the most difficult hurdle is now cleared - a proof of concept smooth tire-like surface has been created.
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03:29.25starseekerhowdy :-()
03:29.30starseekerer :-) rather
03:29.35pacman87hi starseeker
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08:53.11CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30634 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: mike's contributions have been code -- his work on src/external/Cubit
08:55.38CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30635 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): apply mafm's sf patch 1934710 that apply constness and string.h to a handful of files.
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14:01.47brlcadyawns
14:46.26``Erikindeed O.o
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17:02.33brlcadhello andrecastelo
17:02.42andrecastelohey brlcad ]
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22:15.53brlcadburps
22:17.15alex_joniodd sounds are coming from brlcad today :)
22:20.40brlcad:)
22:21.07brlcadpulls out the mixer and some liquors and works up something delicious
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03:24.31brlcadponders coffee
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05:21.31PrezKennedyits hard to have a fun party when the movie line-up is two musicals, one being Rent
07:18.56Axman6i think i've seen rent. not really my thing
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13:41.41hippieindamakin8brlcad, there?
13:41.56hippieindamakin8can u tell me where is the nsis installer for windows?
14:08.46hippieindamakin8brlcad are u there
14:49.52alex_jonihippieindamakin8: patience is the key word around OSS projects :)
15:15.24hippieindamakin8:)
15:19.19hippieindamakin8hey alex_joni ..
15:19.48alex_joni'lo
15:30.07yukonbobmorning cadheads
15:55.38brlcadhippieindamakin8: of course I could tell you where it is at -- the bigger question is should I ... it's really not hard to find :)
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16:50.59hippieindamakin8:))
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17:09.14mafmhi
17:11.50brlcadhowdy mafm
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17:23.32hippieindamakin8hey brlcad and mafm
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18:11.36hippieindamakin8brlcad, there?
18:18.29brlcadnope
18:20.33brlcadseriously, humor aside -- that's bad irc etiquette -- just ask or say whatever you intended, don't ask if someone is "here"
18:20.45brlcadbleh
18:20.51alex_joninow you upset him :/
18:21.05*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@203.200.95.130)
18:21.19alex_jonihippieindamakin8: are you familiar with DATAJA?
18:21.28hippieindamakin8no
18:21.39alex_joniDon't Ask to Ask, Just Ask
18:21.57hippieindamakin8brlcad, I patched the nsi script
18:22.01alex_joni(means it's always better starting with the actual question you have, not asking for permission on asking a question)
18:22.12hippieindamakin8:)
18:22.53brlcadyeah, if you missed my earlier comment -- it's bad irc etiquette to ask if someone is there, so you know
18:23.14brlcadand glad to hear it (re the patch), will take a look in a bit
18:27.13hippieindamakin8sorry for that :(
18:27.51brlcadtouchy
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18:46.13hippieindamakin8brlcad the problem with the nsi installer was that the defaul install dir wasnt program files rt
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18:57.39hippieindamakin8hello Mr. d_rossberg
18:58.58d_rossberghello hippieindamakin8
19:04.44brlcadhippieindamakin8: where did you post the patch?  I didn't get a notification?
19:04.52hippieindamakin8i am posting it rt now
19:04.59brlcadah
19:12.38d_rossberghippieindamakin8: i'll have a look at your posting tomorrow
19:13.34hippieindamakin8its ohk Mr d_rossberg
19:14.06hippieindamakin8sent it brlcad..
19:16.18brlcadgot the notification, thanks
19:16.21hippieindamakin8addition of this line would solve the problem
19:16.39hippieindamakin8<PROTECTED>
19:17.05hippieindamakin8:) sorry for repeated asking if u were here ..
19:19.05brlcadnot a big deal, just pointing it out as you've done it many times now :)
19:19.31hippieindamakin8ya i know :P
19:19.42hippieindamakin8i was unaware of that as well
19:20.18brlcadit happens more frequently to people that don't stay on irc, you shouldn't disconnect
19:21.32hippieindamakin8so seen the patch ?
19:59.17yukonbobhippieindamakin8: patience
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20:06.35*** join/#brlcad spike__ (i=[U2FsdGV@centaur.acm.jhu.edu)
20:16.07brlcadhello spike__
20:21.13alex_jonibrlcad: how goes the GSoC ?
20:22.51spike__hey brlcad
20:25.04brlcadalex_joni: a lot of reading and commenting
20:25.20brlcadalready been going for 4 hours today, and haven't even hit up 10%
20:34.56hippieindamakin8:) yukonbob i shall
20:36.42alex_jonibrlcad: ouch ;)
20:38.47*** join/#brlcad sCOTTo (n=scott@124-170-152-139.dyn.iinet.net.au)
21:05.45hippieindamakin8gnite fellas
21:06.30brlcadcya
21:06.34brlcadhello sCOTTo
21:06.44brlcadfrom down under, neat
21:32.37mafmbrlcad: maybe you should give me privileges to review these applications... I would finish quickly!
21:32.45mafmreject everything but mine :)
21:33.07brlcadmafm: heh :)
21:34.14mafmis it that bad really? how many applications did you got?
21:34.54brlcadfar fewer than levels last year, but quality is *considerably* higher
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21:36.00mafmwhat about the extension, did you got many more in the extended period?
21:36.09mafmi.e. this week
21:36.24spike__lol, i still havent submitted mine
21:36.27brlcada few
21:36.59spike__extensions are both a blessing and a curse
21:37.13mafmsome people that I've talked to said that they only got about 10% more, by Friday
21:37.23brlcadso far, there're probably less than a half-dozen really strong competitors
21:37.45brlcads/competitors/applicants/
21:38.07mafms/applicants/gladiators in the arena/ :)
21:38.09brlcadcompeting for our couple slots
21:38.33mafmnot bad for you, then :)
21:38.41brlcadso if the application is *really* strong, that already puts them in a 30-50% chances range
21:39.49brlcad(last year odds were around 20% for the strong applicants for bz)
21:40.02mafmspike__: at least I hope that they don't extend it again!
21:40.23brlcadnot likely
21:40.34brlcadnobody is asking for it
21:40.53mafmgood :)
21:46.03spike__mafm: theres no way
22:17.25sCOTTohello
22:17.33brlcadhowdy sCOTTo
22:17.33sCOTTosorry ive been looking after kids :)
22:17.42brlcadthey tend to need looking after
22:17.58sCOTToyup
22:18.23sCOTTour tetlling me... im 29, my wife is 20, my youngest is 6 months - eldest is 20 mnths... its hard work!
22:18.44sCOTTotetlling...lol... early morning typos are always the best :)
22:20.13brlcadniice :)
22:21.30sCOTToso anyway... why am i here?
22:21.50brlcadbecause you want to work on BRL-CAD
22:22.15brlcadeither that, or are trying to escape your wife or kids :)
22:22.33sCOTToerrr... oh yes! the guys in #cam, #cad etc told me to ask YOU all a question... I dont personally work with CAD atm - i am a computer consultant who works out issues for ppl.... I have a customer that asked me a question...
22:23.07sCOTTohe wants to output a file from CAD to STEP or IGES - do you guys know how to do that?
22:24.05mafmwaves bye bye
22:24.14sCOTTowaves back
22:24.31brlcadhm, never noticed #cad or #cam .. seems to be non-open-source
22:25.12brlcadsCOTTo: it entirely depends on what cad software you're dealing with -- most cad systems have an exporter for step or iges or both
22:25.28sCOTToAUTOCAD i think - the most common
22:25.39brlcadheh
22:25.40sCOTTothis customer is building a motor design or something...
22:25.43brlcadthe most common for CADD
22:25.51brlcadbut not the most common overall
22:26.02sCOTToi mean if you can show him WHY he would move to BRL - he might come over ;)
22:26.31sCOTToim already half way there selling him on Linux as a better answer for the situation because of system resource usage :)
22:27.06brlcadoh, if you were asking about how step/iges relate to brl-cad -- we have an iges exporter completed, and a step exporter under development
22:27.39brlcadit is a non-preserving format, though -- you loose topological information (turns it into an explicit representation)
22:27.41sCOTTowow thats GREAT
22:27.47brlcadat least for iges
22:27.52brlcadstep preserves
22:28.07sCOTTook... so will is import his current work into itself?
22:28.34brlcadthere are lots of issues for production use -- depends what his requirements are
22:29.07brlcadbrl-cad's strength is actually in the CAE domain right now -- we're working on our usability problems for expanding into design and other uses
22:29.08sCOTToput it this way - can i paste an email in PM for you to see?
22:29.25brlcadsure
22:29.35sCOTTothanks
22:29.56brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/gallery/s/diagrams/Industry_Diagram.png.html
22:30.14brlcadthat may be useful to see where our strengths are at
22:30.49brlcadanalysis, development, and some design (but not a strength until we improve usability)
22:32.02sCOTTois brl free?
22:32.08sCOTToor opensource?
22:32.22brlcad"yes"? :)
22:32.27brlcadfree open source software
22:32.36sCOTToawesome!!!
22:32.39brlcadsource code and all is available
22:32.57sCOTTohow does it stack so far with the expensive software?
22:33.12brlcadthat's what the diagram hints at
22:33.35brlcadwe have a ton of functionality, more than any other open source solution by several hundred man-years of effort
22:34.16sCOTTois it downloadable through APT in linux yet?
22:34.17brlcadbut usability is a weakness -- steep learning curve, once you get over that curve we're fairly on par with the big guns for most cad purposes
22:34.29brlcadthere's no debian maintainer
22:34.37sCOTTois there an easy guide to teach someone with?
22:34.41sCOTTobugger
22:34.51sCOTTouses ubuntu
22:34.52brlcadthere is lots of documentation
22:35.10brlcadit's pretty much requisite to get *anywhere* with the system
22:35.19brlcadit's not discoverable
22:35.47brlcadlike I said, known limitation, something we're working on (a better new gui)
22:36.16brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/gallery/ shows much of some of the sorts of things that are done with brl-cad though
22:37.31sCOTTook so are there windows dists yet? is it hard to install in linux? etc
22:37.52brlcadthere is a windows dist
22:38.15sCOTToim asking what i know HE will ask... if I find it to be a good project I will banner you on my website and promote the software as a better alternative to the known industry standards...
22:38.16brlcadit's usually very easy to install on most any OS
22:38.51brlcaddebian/ubuntu have a busted libtool, one of the few being resolved lately
22:39.16sCOTTothere is the email i got
22:39.28brlcadsCOTTo: be interested in hearing what you think
22:39.34sCOTTogreat
22:39.45brlcadlike I said, there are a whole category of improvements being worked on
22:39.52sCOTTois there a way to fix the libtool?
22:40.51brlcadCAD is a huge undertaking to get momentum on in open source -- BRL-CAD is, however, by far the most developed option available (with growing momentum)
22:41.28brlcadyeah, you either run libtoolize on another system with an unmodified libool, or you install an unmodified libtool
22:41.57sCOTToerrr im not 100% with linux yet - can you say that in english :) LOL
22:43.22brlcadone of our build steps is "./autogen.sh" .. that first step will fail on a stock ubuntu/debian system if you're compiling from source right now because the debian devs chose to "optimize" libtool (in a way that breaks it)
22:43.44brlcadif you download a source tarball, you can skip the autogen.sh step
22:43.51brlcadand there shouldn't be a problem
22:44.10sCOTTook - is there a DOC that will take me through an install without doing that?
22:44.12sCOTTo:)
22:44.34brlcadyeah, INSTALL describes it and/or I can walk you through it here
22:44.57sCOTTook cool
22:45.05``Erikdebians broken libtool isn't an issue if you get the stable tarball, I think... it's just the libtoolize if you modify stuff or check out via subversion
22:45.13sCOTTothanks i will be installling into my ubuntu in 15 minutes - but first......
22:45.17brlcadif you download the source tarball from sourceforge, you should be able to run ./configure --enable-all --enable-optimized && make && sudo make install
22:45.19sCOTTofeels nature calling!
22:45.49sCOTTobrb
22:51.53*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.69.126)
22:51.55andrecastelohey brlcad
22:52.07andrecastelo:)
22:52.09brlcadhowdy andrecastelo
22:57.12sCOTTobrlcad: pm
23:00.59andrecastelobrlcad: hey, can i pm you ?
23:02.03brlcadandrecastelo: sure
23:02.11andrecastelook
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00:27.13*** part/#brlcad sCOTTo (n=scott@124-170-152-139.dyn.iinet.net.au)
01:36.10*** join/#brlcad DaytonaJohn (n=jra@c-68-55-36-65.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
02:34.49brlcadhowdy DaytonaJohn
02:49.08PrezKennedyhowdy brlcad :)
03:01.08DaytonaJohnhi, I was surfing
03:04.13DaytonaJohnbrlcad: Are you there?
03:11.43*** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=CY@c-68-33-217-173.hsd1.md.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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03:53.59brlcadoops, daytona be gone
03:54.05PrezKennedyhe ran away!
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06:21.02brlcadheya pacman87, how's the primitive going?
06:21.32pacman87still working on it
06:21.43brlcadwhat kind of notification(s) do you get when your app is updated?
06:21.44pacman87i might not have time to do full integration
06:23.20pacman87email sent to my gmail account
06:23.33pacman87which i dont' check all that often
06:24.42pacman87the GSoC site still just says 'ranking in progress'
06:24.49pacman87no mention of the new comment
06:26.08brlcadwell, you have a question :)
06:26.21pacman87yeah, i'm reading/responding now
06:35.52CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30638 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Switch from attempt at derivative fixing to additional point measurement.
06:35.53brlcadcool
06:36.04brlcadheh
06:38.16starseekerfigures that's easier than figuring out the doggone derivative mess...
06:38.43starseekerdoes it create the example for you brlcad?
06:39.07starseekershould look a bit more like a tire should now
06:42.52brlcadcan't look at it atm
06:43.09starseekernp
06:43.55starseekerit's still just a shape tweak, no tread yet
06:44.19starseekerreally should sleep now...
06:53.49*** join/#brlcad spike_ (i=[U2FsdGV@centaur.acm.jhu.edu)
06:54.14spike_quick Q, when exactly is the GSoC app due tomorrow? 5pm west coast time?
07:02.19brlcadheh
07:02.43brlcadhave to check the timeline
07:03.15brlcadit is a firm deadline unlike homework assigments, nothing we can do about it :P
07:03.30spike_haha, true
07:04.13spike_brlcad: could i ask you a quick question?
07:04.32brlcad~ask
07:04.33ibotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
07:05.02spike_heh
07:05.34*** join/#brlcad paulproteus (n=paulprot@wide-rose.makesad.us)
07:05.40paulproteuswaves to spike_
07:06.16spike_kicks Asheesh
07:06.21paulproteusZing!
07:06.22brlcadmakehappy, not makesad
07:06.29spike_lol
07:06.55spike_so anyways, my question is about expat and the fcollada library
07:08.14spike_i *think* if i were to write a colldada converter, i would first use expat (and xml parser) to get a document tree, then i would use the fcollada utility to get the 'objects' out of the tree
07:08.33spike_but i'm not really sure how they are different
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07:10.08paulproteusbrlcad, Nice to see you, too. (-;
07:10.10brlcadi'm not familiar with fcollada
07:10.25brlcadat least not beyond what it basically is and does
07:10.40brlcadwhether it includes its own parser or not, the license they use, etc
07:12.20spike_roger
07:12.38paulproteusThe license compatibility question is a big one.
07:13.27clock_paulproteus: problems with compatibility between a licence of brlcad and another program?
07:13.43spike_pretty sure expat is open source
07:14.00spike_not so sure about fcollada
07:14.40paulproteushttp://www.feelingsoftware.com/content/view/55/72 indicates it's under the MIT License, that's good news.
07:14.50spike_smiles
07:15.36spike_so i think im good to go
07:15.45spike_in the license department
07:15.52brlcadmit is fine
07:16.01paulproteusfcollada seems to use the libxml2 XML parser, so you won't need to separately use something like expat, it looks like.
07:16.22brlcadwonders if paulproteus is going to write it for him too :)
07:17.02spike_shakes his head, no!
07:17.10brlcad:)
07:17.14paulproteusNah, I'm just here for moral support and IRC chat.
07:17.31paulproteusI'll have enough GSoC apps to read as mentor for CC.
07:18.32brlcadgood ol commons
07:19.52paulproteus(-:
07:24.43paulproteusBurly CAD
07:25.02paulproteus/join #grlcad
07:25.48brlcadheh
07:28.16pacman87girly CAD?
07:28.48brlcadlolcads
07:29.36pacman87im in ur .g, sweepin ur primitives
07:30.44spike_laughs
07:31.29brlcadhehe
07:31.41paulproteusIt's getting late, so I'm going to go and sweep.
07:31.48brlcadcheers
07:32.06spike_cya paulproteus
07:32.25pacman87i read that as 'brlcad cheers', not 'brlcad: cheers'
07:35.10brlcadcheers: pacman87
07:35.53spike_realizes this is probably what usually happens as it gets later and later
07:37.15pacman87i should go to bed, but i'm a page deep in vector calculations, and i don't want to start over to figure out where i was and where i was going tomorrow
07:38.04brlcadspike_: nah, it's like this most of the time, just the topic changes or it's quiet ;)
07:38.34brlcadgrumbles at an applicant wasting his time being lazy
07:40.26spike_:-D
07:41.44spike_who ya grumblin at brlcad?
07:42.26brlcadbig hint: if I leave a comment asking for more detail .. it probably means you should provide more detail instead of giving me a mouthful about your "working principle" that amounts to blind faith
07:43.41brlcadjust grumbling at an applicant that isn't going to get slotted
07:43.46paulproteusHeh.
07:44.27paulproteusOther hint: If you don't know what more details should be given, ask!
07:44.55brlcadhe was told specific areas even
07:44.59paulproteusIt's amazing how people would rather just fill text in a form rather than actually talk to the people evaluating their applications.
07:45.04paulproteusbrlcad, Gack.
07:45.15paulproteusSounds like you give better feedback than we have been then. (-;
07:45.22spike_lol
07:45.23brlcadi read them all in detail
07:45.33brlcadand at least try to reply in detail
07:45.48clock_forms are a sign of bureaucratization of society
07:46.02paulproteusclock_, People preferring forms to chat is the sign, really.
07:46.08brlcadeven for the "bad" ones, as everyone gets at least one get-out-of-jail card
07:46.16paulproteusThat's very friendly of you. (-:
07:46.25clock_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureaucratization
07:46.37spike_hey brlcad
07:46.43brlcadyeah, I'm always amazed by very detailed applications from people that I've never heard a single word from before their submission
07:46.55spike_if i submitted now would i perhaps see feedback before the deadline tomorrow?
07:47.15spike_ive been kind of holding out because ive been wanting to research and look up stuff more...
07:47.16clock_are they submissions for the GSoC?
07:47.23spike_wish i had known you gave feedback
07:47.27spike_yeah
07:47.42clock_it's heavily underpaid isn't it?
07:48.01paulproteusclock_, You say that because you don't know how much CC pays our summer interns.
07:48.04brlcadspike_: depends on the content
07:48.07clock_like a student summer job?
07:48.12clock_paulproteus: CC?
07:48.33paulproteuscreativecommons.org; we have IRL tech interns as well as some GSoC people.
07:48.45clock_Do CC pay even less?
07:48.58paulproteusAye, there's the rub.
07:49.43spike_brlcad: ok, if you did reply though would it be through email
07:49.49clock_Aren't you worried that people who are willing to work for underpaid wage will not be the very good ones?
07:50.00brlcadspike_: not likely
07:50.13spike_on chat then?
07:50.27pacman87spike_: comments on your app will send an email to your gmail account
07:50.30brlcadif I have to e-mail, it's a last resort just in case the web app didn't send a notice
07:50.39spike_kk
07:50.55brlcadthe web app isn't entirely reliable at times
07:51.13pacman87unfortunately, they don't change the status to 'unread comments'
07:53.09paulproteusclock_, It's a reasonable thing to worry about...
07:53.17brlcadthrows in the towel for the day after 16 hours of reading and commenting
07:54.07pacman87that's dedication
07:56.14brlcadclock_: i wouldn't be -- there are plenty of high-demand CS jobs where applicants line up and are willing to be an intern for *free* for the chance to get noticed and become hired down the road
07:57.15clock_brlcad: then you have a different situation than here
07:57.22brlcadthere's also plenty of college jobs that pay both more and less -- I got paid less than GSoC my first couple years as a student
07:57.25clock_Here we are scarce and we select where we want to go
07:57.35paulproteusI think the good ones are scarce.
07:57.45paulproteus6/8 of the CC intern applicants were pretty terrible.
07:57.51clock_and make goofy faces if the workplace doesn't have enough flowers, bad view etc.
07:57.54paulproteuschecks if this is publicly logged
07:57.58brlcadthen later got paid much much more, but had gsoc been around, I would have gladly been interested in participating -- the experience is rather unique
07:57.59pacman87brlcad: wouldn't that be for jobs with low demand?
07:58.05paulproteusOkay, wow re: bad view, enough flowers.
07:58.24paulproteusLuckily the other two applicants were actually pretty great.
07:58.44spike_submitted application
07:58.50brlcadpacman87: er, I guess I meant from the employer's perspective -- they'll have just one or two internships a year, hundreds of applicants
07:59.16clock_do you have a high rate of unemployment in the US?
07:59.28clock_Because of the collapse of the subprime mortgages?
07:59.36brlcadheh
08:00.04paulproteusNot yet, at least.
08:00.28clock_Like there was an article in Czech news today or yesterday that it pays off for wealthier Czech citizens to buy off some cheap properties on Florida!
08:01.05clock_But some people in the discussion pointed out there are hurricanes
08:01.08brlcadnot really a high rate in the least
08:01.13brlcadsomething like 5%
08:01.48clock_What an absurd idea - post-communist Czech would buy off properties in the always economically strong (discutably former) beacon of democracy!
08:01.50brlcadczech is probably on par or higher if I had to guess
08:01.52clock_Our worlds are changing
08:02.08paulproteusOur words are changing.
08:02.12brlcadyeah, 6.6 per 2007
08:02.14clock_yes :)
08:02.46clock_or there was an article the most modern trains rolling around Zurich are actually built in Prague
08:03.01clock_shiny new silent doubledecker trains
08:04.03pacman87finished my vector calculations, it's 3am, goodnight
08:04.09brlcadcya pacman87 !
08:04.31pacman87cheers
08:06.11spike_4am here
08:06.17spike_/yawn
08:06.28paulproteusCongrats pacman87, good night!
08:12.02spike_alright well, i'm ridiculously tired, i'll probably be around tomorrow after one of my tests. gnight all
08:12.11paulproteusOkay, that's enough for this day for real.
08:12.15paulproteusvanishes in a puff of smoke
08:15.01brlcad:)
08:15.15brlcadsnickers
08:15.32clock_vanishes in a rain of anvils and pianoes
09:23.59*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
09:26.38*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
09:27.21mafmhi
11:25.33*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
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12:14.10brlcadhey mafm d_rossberg
12:16.21d_rossberghuhu
12:18.39pacman87d_rossberg: i replied to your comment
12:22.36d_rossbergpacman87: i've read your answer and replied to it :)
12:25.47pacman87d_rossberg: thanks for the reply.  i've got to run now, but i'll answer fully later
12:26.37d_rossbergno problem, same to me
13:00.43*** join/#brlcad MTee (n=MT@41.233.136.19)
13:00.57MTeeHello
13:02.10mafmyo
13:03.44MTeeI want to know something that's really confusing me .. am i required to know "all the stuff" before actually sending the application ?
13:04.30*** join/#brlcad camcorder (n=draco@81.213.157.51)
13:04.51camcorderhi
13:05.01MTeeor am i allowed to state  in my application that there are some topics that i'm going to learn about ?
13:05.28camcorderi'm postulating about web-based solid geometry model repository idea
13:05.51camcorderit looks like late but I just finished my exams
13:06.12camcordermy question is, I'm also thinking implementing 'ready object' importing from this repository
13:06.30camcorderbut that might be fairly overbloated from the initial idea
13:09.01MTeeare there any mentors here ?
13:13.34MTeewhat are the "Hacking" rules ?
13:20.03*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@203.200.95.130)
13:43.57*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54873C4F.dip.t-dialin.net)
13:56.28brlcadMTee: of course not, but that doesn't prevent any applicant from providing a lot of idea about the topic at hand, paths for implementation, and doing some basic homework to see how that fits in with BRL-CAD
13:57.07brlcadcamcorder: what is ready object importing?
13:57.47camcorderbrlcad, ie. importing a solid design from repository (as in you can do importing code snipplets)
14:00.49``Erik"hacking rules"?
14:01.26brlcadcamcorder: for what it's worth -- there are more submissions for the web-based solid model repository than for any other idea, and most of them fail to impress -- I'd encourage considering other topics (or coming up with a really damn good proposal for that idea)
14:02.53camcorderbrlcad, well I'm actually studying computer engineering, and would like to specialize on CAD software
14:03.19camcorderi've tried brlcad in past, and regular user of Autocad, Cad key for various other stuff
14:03.48camcorderi've never coded for a CAD software before, however i think GSoC would be a good entry point for me
14:04.08camcorderi wish I had my exams finished earlier and (I heard GSoC earlier) than we could discuss it even more
14:04.42camcorderbrlcad, is there any idea that you would suggest me? for an entry level CAD software developer
14:04.49brlcadyeah, submitting this late is going to make it a lot harder to polish up the application -- it puts a lot more work into your hands without much time for feedback
14:05.05*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@70.108.244.218)
14:05.41brlcadnot really, there are ideas on the page that span from very basic to rather hard -- depends on your coding and math experience
14:05.46brlcadhowdy psilva
14:06.45brlcad~tickle prasad_
14:06.45ibotACTION jumps on prasad_, yelling "TICKLE FIGHT!!!!"
14:08.41``Erik<-- covers his innocent eyes
14:08.42brlcadi just wouldn't recommend the web repository idea -- it's been proposed to death (probably because people "get it")
14:09.02prasad_hey hey
14:09.04camcorderi'm afraid yeah
14:09.12camcorderbrlcad, what about dwg importer?
14:09.22camcorderor converter
14:09.24brlcadbut they don't get what is involved or how to sell it or implement it (so far)
14:10.03camcorderif you're here, can we discuss on my proposal?
14:10.05brlcadcamcorder: how would you propose doing that?
14:10.27camcorderbrlcad, dwg converter?
14:10.31brlcadyep
14:10.45camcorder(totally assumption)
14:10.50camcorderdwg specs are open
14:10.59camcorder(that's not an assumption)
14:11.03brlcad'orly'
14:11.18camcorderorly?
14:12.23SongOfTheWavesbrlcad: may I propose a web repository idea? (I actually don't know what it is)
14:12.34SongOfTheWavesI guess it's some kind of toolshed where you store webs?
14:12.41SongOfTheWavesSpider web repository?
14:12.42brlcadbasically
14:13.03brlcadmore of a bike shed
14:13.34``Erikyou can propose anything you want, the web repository one has several proposals already, though, so it'd be... competitive :)
14:14.54MTeewhat about the geometry converter ?
14:15.41brlcadwhat about it?
14:15.53MTeeare there many proposals ?
14:17.00camcorderbrlcad, isn't it possible to implement dwg specification?
14:17.25camcorderbrlcad, of course it would be very optimistic to expect 100% compatibility in 3 months
14:17.35*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.198.227)
14:17.37MTeeI meant the "New geometry converter", specifically .dwg or .3ds
14:17.38camcorderbrlcad, but that would be a very beginning
14:17.44brlcadMTee: not too many -- but it will be a bit tricky -- the ones that are most important are very hard, so the application would have to show strong competence and a good plan
14:18.18mafmbike shed? I suggest blue!
14:18.26brlcadcamcorder: it's all just code, anything is possible - or at least anything can be faked with a good demo :)
14:18.30``Erikwould hope all proposals indicate strong competence and have a good plan O.o
14:18.34brlcad~mafm++
14:18.35``Erikno way, paint it clear!
14:19.05mafmwhat's that ~ thing? is to give me points for ibot? :D
14:19.37MTeewhat are some of the basic project ideas ?
14:19.41brlcadcamcorder: at this late, I'm not going to go into the history of why there is no (osi) open source dwg library -- but you'd have to speak to that
14:20.01camcorderlicense issues?
14:20.01brlcadhow it'd relate, where and how you're getting your information
14:20.21camcorderor god damn patent issue?
14:20.49``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas
14:21.26MTeebrlcad : what are the ideas that are considered basic and require familiarity with C ?
14:21.49brlcadif you're not aware of that mired history, that'd probably be another one I'd say stay away from just because I can't see you formulating a strong proposal without that background knowledge (though it can be acquired just by a few quick searches)
14:22.00brlcadMTee: ... did you read the page?
14:22.23``Erikahummmm
14:23.45brlcaddamn, permissions on ~dirs is busted
14:23.59brlcadbad sean, no donut for you
14:24.08``Erikyeah
14:24.12``ErikI was looking at that myself
14:24.20``Erikwhat'd ya do?
14:24.59MTeebrlcad : I've read it .. and thought the geometry converter was something good to learn on .. but you said it's tricky .. so what are the pojects that are considered to be basic ?
14:25.32brlcadthat's really wierd
14:25.48``Erikwas the apache config modified?
14:26.03``Eriknow it seems to work
14:26.10``Erikhttp://bzflag.bz/~sean/ideas.html
14:26.23brlcad``Erik: the userdir directive .. I'd changed it to /usr/home/*/public_html .. that *doesn't* work .. but does when I change it back to what it was. /home/*/public_html
14:27.02``Erikhuh, odd
14:27.05``Erikuhmmm
14:27.06brlcadwhich makes no sense, I see no other directive for /usr/home that would prevent Indices
14:27.45MTee<PROTECTED>
14:27.46brlcadanyways, who cares, it's fixed
14:27.54``Erikwonder if it uses the systems concept of home? like if you put it back to /usr/home/*/public_html in the config and changed your home dir in passwd to /usr/home/xxx ?
14:28.22brlcadMTee: it is something good to learn on -- that doesn't mean it's not a lot of work though (depending on the converter) :)
14:28.42brlcadthe most valued converters are rather hard
14:28.55``ErikI d'no
14:29.20brlcadstep, iges, dwg ..
14:29.22``ErikI think a pov converter or various video game formats would be nice
14:29.54MTeebrlcad : so what would you suggest for me to propose on ?
14:29.57brlcad``Erik: apache is all directory/file-based -- it should be a literal directory rule that makes /usr/home not work, or some other /home rule I'm not finding that makes it work
14:31.20``Erikmtee: only you know your ability and interest, we can answer specific questions about BRL-CAD, but we cannot think for you :(
14:31.23brlcadMTee: I'd suggest reading through the ideas list in detail and seeing what strongly catches your attention :)  ...
14:31.40brlcadexactly -- I don't know you or your skills at this point to make a valid recommendation
14:31.55brlcadthe list already says what's important and what sorts of skills are required
14:39.03brlcadhmm.. I need some tool that can watch several dozen httpd log files, make it really easy to provide ignore pattern exemptions, and report all non-200 non-spam queries
14:39.38brlcadsomething I could run in screen with an interactive curses console would be cool
14:39.50MTeebrlcad, Erik : So if I have the skills required for a certain project .. what would probably lead to my proposal being refused ?
14:40.04brlcada piss poor proposal?
14:40.30brlcadnot agreeing to the development requirements
14:40.42brlcads/development/application/
14:41.12SongOfTheWaveswould like BRL-CAD not to suddenly render 210x times slower than normal in his headcut.g model
14:41.37brlcadSongOfTheWaves: that task believe it or not is actually on the ideas list
14:41.48SongOfTheWavesbelieves not
14:41.49brlcadnot a single submission for it yet, but it's there
14:42.07``Erikhehehe
14:42.10SongOfTheWavesbrlcad: what's the technical name of the cause of the problem?
14:42.10``ErikGOTOs don't kill applications- Programmers kill applications.
14:42.46SongOfTheWavesTelling a good programmer not to use GOTO
14:42.53SongOfTheWavesis like telling Jay Adams how he should skate.
14:43.12brlcadSongOfTheWaves: it's hinted at in the csg optimizations
14:43.22SongOfTheWavesWe've 910 gotos in the links.
14:43.55SongOfTheWavesbrlcad: I appreciate you take the user feedback this seriously
14:44.52brlcadfeel the love
14:45.00brlcadthough it's not just for you of course :)
14:45.26brlcadthe point is to develop a CAD system that everyone loves
14:46.22``Erikmtee: bad proposal, lack of a realizable plan, having someone propose the same thing as you but better, ...
14:46.59``Erikimagines that if we have, say, 6 proposals for the same idea, like, say, the web repo... only one will be on the short list handed to google for slot allocation O.o
14:47.32``Erikeven if the two best proposals are for that task
14:47.44``Erikbrlcad?
14:47.58``Erik<-- never done this before, is mostly guessing :D
14:48.52mafmGoogle allows redundancy, but probably people tends to avoid it -- unless there's no other choice, I guess
14:51.32SongOfTheWavesbrlcad: like the hippies in the 1969?
14:51.41SongOfTheWavesBRL-CAD specified to *be* *loved*?
14:52.26SongOfTheWavesThat's an approach I approve!
14:53.09SongOfTheWavesLSD - Love and Solid Decomposition
14:54.38brlcad``Erik: yeah, pretty much
14:55.16brlcadso if you're doubling up with another proposal that is already submitted, you're not only competiting against the other submissions, you have to be "best of breed" for that idea
14:56.06brlcadwe're only asking for 2-4 slots at most, they're not going to be for the same idea no matter how good the proposals
14:56.56SongOfTheWavesbrlcad: I should be able to release the Ronja 3D models videos soon, I think I have even already fixed the final credits with the can-get-permission music
14:57.05SongOfTheWavesvideos -> video
14:57.26brlcadcool
14:58.22*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.7.20)
14:58.28andrecastelogood morning everyone
14:58.45andrecastelohey hippieindamakin8 , brlcad , mafm
14:58.46SongOfTheWavesbrlcad: but it's not aliased because of the 210x slowdown on one or more models
14:58.52``Erikwaits for a photon mapped perspective fly-through of a ronja scene :D
14:59.01SongOfTheWavesbrlcad: maybe it could be later possible to rerun it on your supercomputers to make it aliased and look great
14:59.08SongOfTheWavescause now you see the alias artifacts run around
14:59.23SongOfTheWavesaliased -> antialiased
14:59.51SongOfTheWavesbrlcad: I bought a Core 2 Duo 2x2.2GHz (before had 1x1.5GHz Pentium M) and it didn't help much :)
14:59.56SongOfTheWaves:) -> :(
15:00.23SongOfTheWaves``Erik: is photon mapping computationally expensive?
15:01.11alex_joniI imagine the travel speed might be an issue
15:01.29MTeeErick, brlcad : what if i decided that I need to work more on my skills .. should I still sendan application or just wait till next year ?
15:01.59mafmhi andrecastelo
15:02.47SongOfTheWavesIf I don't specify anything and just rt, that's not photon mapping or is it, right?
15:04.56camcorderbrlcad, i've submitted my proposal from "Onur Topsakal"
15:06.15brlcadSongOfTheWaves: you mean it's not anti-aliased? :)
15:06.20brlcadnot being aliased is a good thing :)
15:07.15brlcadah, you did correct yourself, hehe .. /me catches up
15:07.35brlcadMTee: send it in, you never know
15:07.46SongOfTheWavesrt by default doesn't do photon mapping, does it?
15:07.49brlcadi'll let you know if the chances aren't good
15:08.22brlcadSongOfTheWaves: photon mapping is very expensive and requires some model preparation (putting the model into a box with light sources)
15:08.38brlcadbut rt does have the option by default, lighting mode 7
15:08.56SongOfTheWaveswhich lighting mode is the default?
15:09.20brlcad0 ?
15:09.36brlcador 1, don't remember
15:09.54brlcad0
15:10.08SongOfTheWavesWhich one has the highest realism?
15:11.16brlcadphoton mapping performs a global illumination simulation so IFF you set up your scene appropriately, it will generally look much better, much more realistic
15:12.03brlcad(and take 100x longer to render, compared to path tracing which takes about 10000x times longer)
15:12.23camcorderbrlcad, thanks for guidance, hope my proposal is chosen and would work together
15:16.11SongOfTheWavesbrlcad: path tracing is even more realistic than photon mapping?
15:16.25brlcadto give folks an idea of what an excellent proposal looks like, here's one received for BZFlag: http://my.bzflag.org/w/User:Jude-  None received for brl-cad are quite that good so you shouldn't be discouraged, but you are encouraged to put in a lot of detail about your idea.
15:16.57brlcadSongOfTheWaves: usually, it's a brute force solution to the render equation
15:17.29brlcadthe image of stryker in a field of grass is a path-traced image
15:18.35*** join/#brlcad spik1 (n=spike@fomalhaut.acm.jhu.edu)
15:18.36brlcadi.e. http://brlcad.org/gallery/s/renderings/stryker_slat.jpg.html and http://brlcad.org/gallery/s/renderings/humvee.png.html
15:18.57SongOfTheWavesbrlcad: writing a proposal like this which includes an analysis of a problem is already quite some work and there is a risk you take the analysis, reject his proposal and use the work he did to program according to his analysis and save your work on his behalf.
15:19.15SongOfTheWavesbrlcad: so I am not surprised people don't generally send such sophisticated proposals
15:20.06SongOfTheWavesbrlcad: but is path tracing more realistic than photon mapping? Or less? Or the same?
15:20.23SongOfTheWavesAll I understand from your reply is that path tracing is much slower than P. M.
15:23.24brlcadSongOfTheWaves: heh, I'd call BS .. most core devs have thought through the idea being proposed many orders of magnitude more than the person submitting the proposal -- and the point isn't to get something done, it's to attract new *developers* to the project
15:23.56brlcadwhat they actually propose is almost irrelevant beyond the applicant showing basic understanding and respect for the current priorities of the project
15:24.07CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03louipc * r30639 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/archlinux/PKGBUILD: Remove extra options from build()
15:24.15SongOfTheWavesbrlcad: I am already attracted and would develop for living, but it's not organizationally possible
15:24.19brlcadotherwise, having a detailed application goes a really long ways towards showing that they are serious about working with the project and that they work hard
15:24.24SongOfTheWavesbrlcad: so do you expect to attract volunteers?
15:25.20SongOfTheWavesbrlcad: or people who have more bureaucratically favourable constellation circumstances?
15:25.23brlcadi entirely do hope to attract new long-term brl-cad developers, that is the PRIMARY goal of GSoC across the board
15:25.43SongOfTheWavesbrlcad: you need people who live in the US?
15:25.47brlcadthe money is just an incentive to give people that otherwise still need to pay bills a means to get started
15:25.53brlcadbut it is still just a getting started point
15:26.29brlcadSongOfTheWaves: it sounds like you know very little to nothing about GSoC :) .. no you don't need to be in the US, most aren't in the US
15:26.48SongOfTheWavesbrlcad: I don't mean for the GSoC, I mean for BRL-CAD
15:27.35brlcadspik1: comment preferred for any responses -- you should also be able to edit your proposal if you decide you want to add more detail
15:28.10brlcadSongOfTheWaves: why would we need people who live in the US?  it's an open source project, anyone can contribute whenever they like
15:28.19brlcadfrom wherever
15:28.32SongOfTheWavesbrlcad: I can't contribute in my working hours
15:28.44SongOfTheWavesso not quite whenever I like
15:28.56spik1yeah thanks i saw it
15:29.28brlcadSongOfTheWaves: you "can", but there would be consequences for your situation perhaps
15:29.33SongOfTheWavesbrlcad: so you are looking for volunteers because for some organizational reasons you are unable to pay people fulltime?
15:30.04SongOfTheWavesbrlcad: yes there would be consequences for my ability to fill my fridge and to keep snow and rain off my head when sleeping
15:30.07brlcadstill, I put in more than 60-80 hours a week most weeks NOT during working hours, so I don't have much sympathy .. there are 24 hours in a day :)
15:30.28SongOfTheWavesbrlcad: yeah but your work doesn't suxx
15:30.36SongOfTheWavescause it's not proprietary
15:30.54``Erik*readreadread*
15:31.34brlcadSongOfTheWaves: i'm looking for volunteers simply because I want to make BRL-CAD better, by whatever means available -- open source is the best means to make that happen, benefits everyone, and has exceptionally low barriers to participate
15:32.08``Eriky'know, I'm curious... we have the ability to render multiple frames in one run, so the prep time is just hit once... does photon mapping do its map generation in the prep phase? so a multi-frame render would only map once?
15:32.21MTee!deadline
15:32.40SongOfTheWaves``Erik: is this valid also for the default rt lighting model?
15:32.47SongOfTheWavesBecause I call rt separately for every frame
15:33.01SongOfTheWavesWould it speed up significantly if I somehow coerced rt into rendering all of them at once?
15:33.18brlcad``Erik: yeah, the photon mapping is view independent during prep -- theoretically you'd amortize that cost with multiple frames
15:33.43``Erikit does multiframe with the default model, but I doubt you have much prep overhead with the ronja models
15:34.12brlcadyeah, depends how much of that time is prep, it's in the log file output
15:34.16``Erik300 frame photon mapped flythrough, hummm :D
15:34.25SongOfTheWavesonly 300?
15:34.30SongOfTheWavesThat's 6 seconds with 50fps
15:34.34SongOfTheWavesor 5 seconds with 60fps
15:34.39``Erikthat's 20 seconds at 15fps
15:34.45SongOfTheWaves15fps is jerky
15:34.49``Erik10 at 30fps
15:35.17SongOfTheWavesI consider 30fps still jerky
15:35.24SongOfTheWavesFirst 50fps I perceive as smooth
15:35.40``Eriknotes that cinema is 24fps
15:36.12SongOfTheWavestherefore cinema must be necessary jerky for me
15:36.26``Erikiirc, each cell is moved at 24fps, and each cell is flashed twice to reduce the strobing effect
15:36.49SongOfTheWavesI heard even about flashing 3 times
15:38.29SongOfTheWavesIsn't like LCD refreshed only 30 times per ssecond?
15:38.32``Erikcould be, my cinema class was over a decade ago, and we still use ncst over here
15:38.46SongOfTheWavesCause if I play kate Ryan - Libertine music video on an LCD the movement is like "dirty", unclear
15:38.47``Erikdepends on the lcd, some are around 50 or 60 I think
15:38.55SongOfTheWavesOn a CRT it's like if I was watching the dancer in real.
15:39.14SongOfTheWavesMaybe it's because the LCD constructers chronically ignore the Shannon theorem
15:39.39SongOfTheWavesWhen thy don't bother with proper sampling of the input signal, why should they bother with proper sampling of the frames?
15:39.53spik1has class, eep!
15:39.56spik1bbl guy
15:39.59spik1guys*
15:40.12SongOfTheWavesChanging the frame rate requires massive filtering otherwise you get temporal aliasing
15:40.16brlcadbbq spik
15:40.35SongOfTheWavesThe worst case is some movies in the TV which were obviously resampled this badly so they jerk every Nth frame
15:40.47SongOfTheWavesso Superman is flying and I want to vomit seeing the picture
15:41.10brlcaddon't sit so close :)
15:41.13brlcadtake some dramamine
15:41.16SongOfTheWavesThey have whole development departments to be able to produce it with such horrible quality
15:42.05SongOfTheWavesany geek would be able to stitch up a frame resampler in C in few hours
15:42.17SongOfTheWavesNot them with their huge udgets
15:42.51SongOfTheWavesOn the other hand when they cannot even figure out the Y'CbCr right (cf. Hyperluma and Luminaplex), why would one expect them to figure out the frame resampling?
15:49.26SongOfTheWavesno antialiasing helps when the details of the rendered video are damaged by the commonly used brainless rgb ->ycbcr conversion
15:49.31yukonbobwaves in
15:49.42*** part/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669639.dsl.bell.ca)
15:51.13SongOfTheWavesbrlcad: I think I should add a BRL-CAD URL into the cerdits shouldn't I?
15:51.25brlcadsurprising how many students don't realize they're being notified of submission updates at their gmail address that they rarely ever check ... set up a mail forward if you're not going to check it folks!
15:51.31SongOfTheWavesinto the final credits of the movie
15:51.56brlcadSongOfTheWaves: that's entirely up to you, it would certainly be appreciated but far from necessary
15:52.11SongOfTheWavesbrlcad: cause look from the point of view of the viewer
15:52.29SongOfTheWaveswohoo - a free 3D that can make pictures like this - I want to make too - but where do I download the darn thing ?!?
15:53.32brlcadthe name and a quick web search should be enough to answer that question
15:53.53brlcadthinks SongOfTheWaves would like seeing some of the original brl-cad movies
15:54.16*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54873C4F.dip.t-dialin.net)
15:54.45prasad_is gvar still in the distro?
15:54.59brlcadprasad_: heh, yeah
15:55.11brlcadhasn't required any maintenance to preserve
15:56.02prasad_need to change that to a new format
15:56.03brlcadalso would probably serve as a good starting point for a g-ogl converter
15:56.30prasad_add support to write out multiple varrs
15:56.32brlcadyou still have commit access, go for it
16:08.15SongOfTheWavesbrlcad: that's right people use web search today
16:39.19PrezKennedybrlcad, did you pull an all-nighter or do you just wake up ridiculously early?
16:45.17pacman87why does the GSOC comment box have to be so tiny?
17:06.45*** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=CY@c-68-33-217-173.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
17:15.10MTeeI need help compiling BRL-CAD
17:15.31MTeecould anyone here help me please ?
17:15.40pacman87~ask
17:15.40ibotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
17:17.20MTeepacman : could ou help me compile brL-cad ?
17:18.36pacman87MTee: what specifically is going wrong?
17:19.26MTeedon't know where to start
17:20.40pacman87~svn
17:20.41ibotSubversion (aka SVN) is version control software that aims to be a better CVS than CVS. See http://subversion.tigris.org/.
17:21.00pacman87not what i wanted :(
17:21.08pacman87MTee: download the source
17:21.16MTeeI did
17:21.21pacman87read the readme
17:21.36MTeepacman : thanks .. forgot to do so :)
17:25.36MTeepacman : isn't brl-cad supposed to be portable and run on either windows, mac or linux ?
17:25.57brlcadPrezKennedy: I often only sleep a couple hours in a given night
17:26.31brlcadpacman87: some (better) browsers let you resize those text boxes :)
17:26.47pacman87brlcad: which ones?
17:27.06pacman87lynx?
17:27.08brlcadheh
17:27.13brlcadprobably not lynx
17:27.35brlcadthough I admit I haven't tried recent versions of lynx
17:27.37pacman87<3 lynx for helping me get X working on my first linux install
17:28.13pacman87MTee: i believe so, what OS are you running?
17:29.55MTeepacman : now windows. .but looks like i'm going to reboot in ubuntu
17:30.09pacman87there's no need to compile for windows
17:30.59MTeepacman : they said that it's required that i successfully compile and run the s/w, was this intended for linux/UNIX users only ??
17:31.31pacman87MTee: you're applying for GSoC?
17:31.42MTeeyep ..
17:32.04MTeewhy ?
17:32.38pacman87so am i :)
17:33.09pacman87but yeah, i'd recommend compiling in linux
17:33.12MTee:) .. I postulated that
17:33.14*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
17:33.25pacman87hi d_rossberg
17:33.49MTeegreat .. thanks pacman :)
17:33.55pacman87just posted a response
17:36.14brlcadMTee: README, INSTALL, HACKING <-- useful documentation ..
17:38.42pacman87brlcad: what browser were you refering to earlier?
17:38.59d_rossbergpacman87: i just read it, thank you
17:39.48pacman87d_rossberg: any more questions that would benefit from realtime communication?
17:41.53d_rossbergpacman87: questions: yes; however, i have to leave for today; i'll reply tomorrow
17:42.22d_rossbergit's an interesting topic
17:43.10pacman87i've had quite a few different methods bouncing around my head since i started thinking about it
17:43.18brlcadpacman87: safari does this
17:43.24brlcadi believe there's an extension for firefox
17:43.34pacman87uses opera
17:43.35brlcadhttps://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3818
17:44.59pacman87right in the middle of me typing a question for d_rossberg
17:45.33brlcadirc's really hard for some of the other devs :)
17:45.50brlcadto stay on-line -- they tend to be e-mail junkies
17:46.02brlcadmailing list of app comments are best
17:46.30pacman87i prefer irc
17:46.41brlcadlikewise
17:46.58brlcadcan't really "require" folks use it though, not with our current developer base
17:47.09pacman87much easier to ensure that your ideas are understood how you intend
17:47.17pacman87when you have immediate feedback
17:48.38brlcadpacman87: have you looked at how the sketch+extrude primitives interact?
17:48.57brlcadthey're very closely related to what you're proposing
17:48.58pacman87no, that was my 'more research needed' line
17:49.33brlcadas extrude is basically a simple linear sweep, sketches are just 2D outlines
17:50.36pacman87it would be trivial to add sketches to my method
17:50.41brlcadthinks it would be cool/better to be able to "extrude" *any* primitive, not just sketches
17:50.52pacman87skip the 3D ->2D step
17:51.01brlcadyeah, sketches should be easier, just a subset
17:53.03pacman87given his interest, i'm assuming d_rossberg could be my mentor?
17:53.41brlcadtbd
17:53.57pacman87figured as much
17:57.22pacman87goes to class, back in 5.5 hours
18:03.32brlcadcya
18:31.52PrezKennedybrlcad, i wish i could do that
18:32.01PrezKennedyim dead tired if i get less than 6 hours of sleep
18:47.30*** join/#brlcad MTee (n=mt@41.233.147.212)
18:50.58*** join/#brlcad mt__ (n=mt@41.233.147.212)
18:51.09mt__~svn
18:51.10ibotSubversion (aka SVN) is version control software that aims to be a better CVS than CVS. See http://subversion.tigris.org/.
18:51.42mt__hello.. i'm having troubles compiling brlcad in ubuntu
18:53.10brlcadeither download the source tarball (instead of svn checkout), install an unmodified GNU libtool (debian devs modify libtool and break it), or feel free to provide a suitable workaround patch :)
18:55.30mt__I know I shouldn't have waited till the last minute .. but I won't be able to send the app except after 2 or 3 more hours .. big deal ?
18:57.53brlcadthe sooner the better
18:58.09brlcadI have extra questions for the last-minute submitters
18:58.55mt__brlcad : such as ?
18:59.16brlcadit'll be attached to your submission
18:59.40brlcadhttp://tinyurl.com/3tjkh8  tick tock
19:02.03mafmbye
19:02.16brlcadcya mafm
19:05.53*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@217-162-108-27.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:15.52andrecastelobrlcad: hey, in struct mater_info (raytrace.h) it has ma_color[3] and ma_temperature declared as floats.. wouldn't it be better if they were fastf_f ?
19:17.16clock_brlcad: can it calculate also chromatic aberration - if yes what's the name of the appropriate lighting model?
19:17.20clock_multispectral library?
19:19.00brlcadandrecastelo: these days probably -- most structs are intended to have fixed sizes for v4 serialization/format compatibility
19:19.18brlcadnot compilation-dependent sizes (and fastf_t can change)
19:19.37brlcadwould have to investigate how struct mater_info pertains to the v4 file format to change it
19:22.30andrecasteloi see
19:37.52hippieindamakin8hey ppl
19:42.36andrecastelohey hippieindamakin8
19:43.11andrecastelodoes BRL-CAD use Bidirectional Reflectance Distribution Function ??
19:49.28*** join/#brlcad spike1234124214 (n=spike@fomalhaut.acm.jhu.edu)
19:54.56PrezKennedyif i was still into programming, brlcad would be a cool mentor
19:58.03yukonbobPrezKennedy: get back into programming ;)
19:58.42PrezKennedythe only way i could see myself programming was if i was learning PHP to do a webapp of some sort
20:00.51andrecasteloPrezKennedy: why did you leave ?
20:01.13yukonbobPrezKennedy: why do you say on PHP?
20:01.27PrezKennedyandrecastelo, i think programming is incredibly boring ;)
20:01.28yukonbob*say only PHP
20:01.42andrecasteloPrezKennedy:  :( it's awesome :(
20:01.55PrezKennedyyukonbob, first thing that came to mind... have had a little experience with it... could do python or something like that I guess
20:01.57andrecastelobut i won't argue :b
20:02.39PrezKennedyandrecastelo, i know some people enjoy it... i used to... but i like what i do now instead
20:03.00yukonbobPrezKennedy: ah -- and why do you say web-app, versus say, a desktop app or utility, or library code?
20:08.18andrecasteloPrezKennedy: and what is it you do now ?
20:14.02prasad_programming is only fun if u like what u code
20:14.07prasad_like not xml
20:14.07prasad_..
20:14.30``Erikxml is like violence, if it doesn't work, use more of it
20:14.31``ErikO.o
20:15.12andrecastelo``Erik: hahaha
20:16.47prasad_especially when implementing adobe's broken code
20:16.49prasad_sigh
20:23.44paulproteusJesus Christ, PHP?!
20:23.52paulproteusOf *course* programming is boring if you live in PHPland.
20:24.14spike1234124214wave
20:24.15``Erikhttp://blog.mlive.com/flintjournal/newsnow/2008/04/post_moto_kid_death_story_here.html
20:24.16``ErikO.o
20:35.15CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30640 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Added inner solid fill for tire - next step is to provide proper 'cut out' shape.
20:36.56brlcadjeebus!.. the annual jpr cad report is 5k
20:37.18brlcadwhat a scam
20:37.23``Erikthat's it? I thought it costed six digits just to get a quote in this industry O.o
20:37.37brlcadhttp://www.jonpeddie.com/special/CAD_report.shtml
20:37.51brlcad6 billion dollar industry this year
20:39.21clock_brlcad: I have read that the worth of Linux kernel is 1 billion dollar
20:40.15andrecastelohey brlcad .. does BRL-CAD use any kind of Bidirectional Reflectance Distribution Function??
20:40.27brlcadsounds a bit exaggerated to me, clock_
20:40.42brlcadbusiness-wise, perhaps -- but not necessarily the code itself
20:41.06brlcadat least ohloh ranks them at under a 1/3 at a 100k salary
20:41.33brlcadandrecastelo: the phong model
20:41.37brlcadplastic shader
20:42.20brlcadshaders represent a BRDF response, there are a variety of shaders available (phong being the most prevalent)
20:43.07brlcadcook-torrence is also in there, but not well tested
20:43.21brlcadI use it when I need really pretty shiny glass
20:43.48andrecastelohmm
20:44.17brlcadsrc/liboptical/sh_plastic.c for phong if you're looking for source ref
20:44.28brlcadthe shaders are all in sh_*.c
20:44.41andrecastelothanks i'll take a look
20:44.51andrecasteloi've updated my app though, hope i didn't miss anything
20:44.57brlcadk
20:45.17brlcadgets e-mails since he's commented on all of them
20:45.48andrecastelobrlcad: oh lol, forgot about that :b
20:48.46brlcadtis going to be a really tough selection -- there are at least six strong candidates (from my perspective, other mentors may vary)
20:49.06*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@h-67-103-183-185.mclnva23.covad.net)
20:49.23andrecastelobrlcad: you should accept all six of them :b
20:49.27andrecastelohehe
20:49.37``Erik google won't give us 6 slots, not as a first year project
20:49.39brlcadthat wouldn't be a good experience for the students
20:49.58brlcadtakes time to coordinate amongst devs
20:50.11``Erikdoubts we'd get 4, even if we asked for that many :)
20:50.44andrecastelowell, i hope that i'm selected..
20:51.27*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@70.108.244.218)
20:51.28andrecasteloi'm impressed at how serious BRL-CAD and BZFLAG treats GSoC
20:51.42andrecastelodefinetely a differential
20:51.56spike1234124214well, would you want to apply to one that was less serious?
20:52.35spike1234124214i wouldnt...better to be prepared than not
20:53.39PrezKennedyyukonbob, because the web is where i have the most experience and most interest... however if i did a crappy accounting program for construction companies... i could make big $$$
20:53.46brlcadmaybe we could just make the deciding factor some mged modeling task (muahahaha) .. see who survives
20:54.04PrezKennedybrlcad, did my brother get ahold of you finally?
20:54.06andrecastelomged doesn't like me
20:54.22brlcadPrezKennedy: he got ahold of the right people eventually
20:54.30brlcadandrecastelo: it doesn't like anyone
20:54.40``Erikmged doesn't particu... brlcad beat me to it
20:54.56andrecastelolol
20:55.02PrezKennedythats good... he hasnt quite learned yet that it takes some initiative to go somewhere...
20:55.08brlcadpowerful but very unforgiving .. and it's not going to help you
20:55.29``Erikdo we have a write-up of the history of mged? mebbe that'd help people understand why it is like it is?
20:58.27PrezKennedyand andrecastelo, im a system administrator and IT support
20:58.32``Erik*stretch* *yawn* that nap is done, time to go home :D later, kids
20:58.52andrecastelolater ``Erik
20:59.00PrezKennedydarn government workers!
20:59.35brlcadvolume 1 covers the history/philosophy a bit
21:08.49yukonbobmged is user friendly; it's just particular about who it's friends are...
21:11.21brlcad:)
21:11.46brlcadnice characterization :)  pretty true
21:11.47prasad_was never a friend :(
21:13.09brlcadwishes there were a decent resolution independent opengl gui library
21:13.38prasad_hmm no idea :o
21:14.16prasad_heh u know we 'phased' out gfc
21:14.26prasad_we only deal with rendering flash now
21:14.40brlcadthat's sad
21:14.46prasad_i dunno if they're open to releasing that codebase
21:14.56brlcadliked the georgia forestry commission
21:15.23prasad_slash and burn cultivation
21:15.24prasad_what can u do
21:15.26prasad_:(
21:15.35brlcadyou should press for it, open source it for brl-cad ftw!
21:15.46brlcadlgpl
21:15.57prasad_codebase is pretty huge
21:16.14prasad_maybe in 1-2 yrs
21:16.18prasad_heh
21:16.18brlcadbah
21:18.57andrecastelobrlcad: hey isn't there a proposal to an Open GL Gui Lib?
21:22.00brlcadworking on the GUI front-end, eys
21:22.20brlcadthat still doesn't resolve the fact that there's not a good toolkit available :)
21:22.52prasad_quite a pain to make one too
21:23.03prasad_not being sarcastic
21:23.06prasad_just takes a lot of man hours
21:23.26prasad_at least one that can be classes as a toolkit
21:23.29prasad_classed*
21:25.36brlcadyep
21:25.45brlcadthat's why I want to use one, not write one ;)
21:27.03andrecastelohehehe i thought the other way hehehe
21:30.10brlcadthey could work on a toolkit all summer -- they might get a couple percent done
21:30.25brlcadprobably better to invest effort in making something like cegui resolution independent
21:38.20*** join/#brlcad MTee (n=MT@41.233.147.212)
21:38.50MTeebrlcad
21:39.27MTeebrlcad : should I run BRL-CAD under linux .. or can i do it under windows ?
21:39.39brlcadyou can do whatever you like :)
21:40.13MTeethanks :)
21:42.29prasad_is diva active?
21:42.35prasad_or has it been replaced
21:44.07MTeebrlcad : should I work on a specific version ?
21:45.15CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30641 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.bat: For the moment, put back the old START command. Without the "2>&1 nul" we lose the output from forked apps like rt.
21:49.21``Erikum, diva/adrt/isst/rise/etc is all being reworked
21:49.42``Erikneeds to buy new tires
21:50.17brlcadMTee: depends what you're trying to do
21:50.49brlcaddevs are expected to use latest svn and be competent at building for their platform
21:51.23MTeei see
21:51.54``Erikand those who decide to use debian/ubuntu should understand how to work around their broken libtool
21:51.55``Erik:D
21:52.47prasad_reworked?
21:52.53prasad_by mal?
21:53.00``Erikno
21:53.25``ErikI'm on the "isst" task, which involves folding the various forks back together and making it more robust/unified/easy
21:54.21prasad_ah
21:55.22brlcadMTee: new devs can always get up to speed -- really depends what you're trying to do for the next couple weeks
22:05.09MTeebrlcad : I know this sounds crazy .. but I'm really having troubles .. I'm trying but I don't know if i'll be able to patch the program and eventually send the app !!!
22:05.53brlcadMTee: send the app in first
22:05.59brlcadthe patch can happen later
22:06.24CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30642 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/nsis/brlcad.nsi: Add shortcuts for RtWizard.
22:06.25brlcadbetter to have detail and effort in the app itself
22:06.40brlcadespecially since the submission deadline is pretty firm for the initial revision
22:07.20MTeeok so I'll work on the application now and send it within an hour .. good ?
22:08.36andrecastelohurry :b
22:08.52andrecastelobrlcad: about the app, did you have the time to take another look at it ?
22:09.08brlcadandrecastelo: hah
22:09.12brlcadno, not really :)
22:09.28brlcadis in like 10 discussions at the moment with the deadline approaching
22:10.10andrecastelohehehe
22:10.37andrecastelodo you think you'll be able to take a look before the deadline ?? :B
22:11.14brlcadprobably not, why?
22:11.28andrecastelonah, i just wanted to refine it a bit more
22:11.33brlcadfeel free to
22:11.34andrecastelobut no problem
22:11.38brlcadplease do refine
22:11.47brlcadrefine, detail, etc
22:11.56brlcadthat doesn't stop with the deadline
22:12.06brlcadthe deadline is for the initial submission
22:12.11andrecasteloreally ?
22:12.26*** join/#brlcad cad07 (n=94e99f3a@bz.bzflag.bz)
22:12.32brlcadwe have another week to poke and prod for additional information if needed, to clean up the submissions, agree on the scope/focus/plan/etc
22:12.58brlcadwe'll likely have our finalist by the end of this week
22:13.07brlcadbut technically we have a week and a half
22:14.05andrecastelohmm ok..
22:14.53andrecastelobrlcad: one thing - in the feedback you said the first step of the timeline was a little doosie.. i've added some detail but what exactly is doosie ?? :)
22:16.02brlcadthe scope of that effort, amount of work involved
22:16.07brlcadcompared to the other steps
22:17.11brlcadsort of like "step 1: make it work .. step 2: chill with a beer"  :-)  big difference in what is involved for each step :)
22:17.25andrecasteloah ok, i understand :b
22:17.46andrecastelowell, i've added some "sub" milestones and more detail, i hope it is better now
22:18.40brlcadokay
22:19.26MTeebrlcad : what's the most important points to be included in the app ?
22:23.59brlcadanything and everything that you think the mentors should know
22:24.05brlcaddetail
22:24.33brlcadespecially about your proposal idea -- not just what was mentioned on the ideas page, it needs to go into detail on the idea
22:25.08brlcaddetails about yourself, execution timeline, how it relates to brl-cad features and code, etc
22:25.44brlcadnotes this is all on the wiki, http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Application_Guidelines
22:45.39PrezKennedyok this typo is ironic :P
22:45.50PrezKennedy"Bugs, typos, and compilation errors are to be expected as part of
22:45.50PrezKennedythe process of active software development and documentation, but it
22:45.50PrezKennedyis ultimately unacceptible to allow them to persist.."
22:46.07PrezKennedyunacceptable is spelled incorrectly
22:46.19brlcadtick tock, 75 minutes till deadline
22:46.43brlcadPrezKennedy: hehe ;)
22:47.06brlcadso now that it's been pointed out, someone (tm) should fix it
22:50.35PrezKennedyindeed!
23:16.22CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30643 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: not acceptable!
23:39.51pooliohacking is not acceptable?
23:43.29brlcadtwas quite acceptible :)
23:48.20poolioah
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080408

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080408

00:20.08andrecastelobrlcad: question: how can i commit with brlcad (using svn) ?? i've found a typo i want to fix :)
00:22.36brlcadandrecastelo: you make a couple patches first to engender trust that you understand and are following HACKING first :)
00:22.51brlcadpatches tracker is on sf
00:23.01andrecastelook, if anything burns i'll call you
00:23.10brlcadnods
00:32.28andrecastelobrlcad: ok, i guess everything worked as expected
00:32.48andrecastelohere's the patch : http://rafb.net/p/nPdkdS88.html (i've submitted it already)
00:33.13brlcadheh
00:33.18brlcadcoulda just said that one :)
00:33.47andrecasteloi wanted to submit my first patch :)
00:34.03andrecastelo(this is not the patch you want me to submit though)
00:34.07CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30644 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: it's apparently an int pointer, thanks andrecastelo
00:34.47andrecastelocheers
00:39.38CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30645 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/nsis/brlcad.nsi: apply sf patch 1936200 (Selecting the environmental variables in NSIS) so that PROGRAMFILES is properly set. kinda helps the windows installer work. thanks suryajith.
00:43.45andrecastelobrlcad: that last patch was related to the problem i was having hehehe
00:43.50andrecastelocompiling brlcad
00:46.04brlcadreally?
00:46.12brlcadyou're on windows?
00:46.25andrecasteloyes
00:46.32andrecastelonon english windows
00:46.33brlcadmarks down the application a few points
00:46.38brlcadj/k :)
00:46.39andrecastelo;O
00:46.43andrecasteloWAIT
00:46.49andrecasteloi have debian installed!!!
00:46.50andrecastelo:)
00:46.59brlcaduh huh, suuure you do :)
00:47.13andrecastelohahaha
00:47.36brlcaddoesn't matter, if the mascot isn't a little daemon with a pitchfork, you're still getting marked down ;)
00:47.55andrecastelo:(
00:48.23brlcadour windows side actually needs lots of loving
00:48.56brlcadalmost all of the work put in to date has been by folks that really don't like windows on a very deep level :)
00:49.20brlcadknowledgeable, but not liking working on windows does kinda affect what gets fixed/worked
00:49.41brlcadit gets done out of sheer demand
00:49.56andrecasteloi see.. i guess i'll try building the source on linux
00:50.18andrecasteloand on debian i've heard i have to do some work arounds
00:52.20brlcadfinding a good work-around for default debian would be a very useful patch
00:53.02andrecastelobut isn't the work-around debian sided ??
00:53.22andrecasteloinstalling an unmodified certain library
00:53.42brlcadwell yeah, that works
00:53.47brlcadbut that's not a "work-around"
00:54.04brlcadwaiting for the devs to fix a problem they don't want to fix is also not a work-around
00:54.27brlcadour build system accounts for lots of system configuration problems so things "just work" as best possible
00:55.25brlcadmacs have a poorly configured libtool that is useless by default, for example, but autogen.sh takes care of it
00:56.20brlcadthere are a slew of work-arounds in configure and some of the Makefile.am files
00:56.23andrecasteloso, autogen.sh should detect that the system is debian and it has a flawed library, and taking care of the problem..
00:56.57brlcadthe failure happens during make -- so the fix could happen just about anywhere up the chain
00:57.35brlcadwe had a work-around in there before, which involved recursively declaring dependencies for all binaries (utterly massive duplicitive link lines)
00:58.16brlcadthat's a pretty bad work-around though, involves editing every single Makefile.am with a target
00:58.36andrecasteloand i guess build times sky rocket ?
00:59.00brlcadand had the massive link lines, slow build times, big logs, annoying link-line duplication
00:59.16brlcadkinda a shot-gun approach
00:59.29brlcadshould be something that can happen during autogen.sh or configure
01:01.10brlcador who knows -- maybe things have changed since then and we have a bonefide build bug that needs fixed
01:01.26andrecasteloi'll be afk for a minute and then i'll try compiling it with debian
01:01.54andre|awayjust a sec, be right back
01:03.35*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code, see http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code || GSoC applications are being reviewed throughout the week, final candidates will be required to provide a useful patch
02:00.49andrecastelobrlcad: i've been looking at the viewarea.c and i'm clueless as to how to connect it to the standard center point idea (median of the points that form the area)..  can you give me some pointers ?
02:02.46brlcaddo you see how those are callbacks called during rtarea?
02:03.23brlcadpre/during/post callbacks
02:04.04andrecasteloi thought of using struct area, but i think this struct is a completely different concept
02:04.17andrecastelo(seems to be)
02:04.24brlcadright now it stores things as just a counter iirc -- but to compute center of presented area, it needs to also store the X,Y values -- and then average them at the end
02:05.24andrecasteloyes, it counts the presented hits and the exposed hits
02:06.02andrecastelohm, i kind of understand now - struct area should have a list of points, is that it ?
02:06.58brlcadyeah, it's too simple
02:07.24brlcadit's also "wrong" w.r.t. presented hits if you want to fix that too ;)
02:07.47brlcadalmost everyone uses it for exposed areas
02:08.01andrecastelow. r. t. ?
02:08.58andrecastelobut if i just add the points and the function, how would that connect to the whole thing ??
02:09.13andrecasteloi mean, i need to make the connection, right ?
02:09.41brlcad~wrt
02:09.41ibothmm... wrt is with respect to, or with regards to, or the Linksys WRT54G on which some people have successfully installed Asterisk. More information at http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-Asterisk+Linksys+WRT54G
02:10.05brlcadconnect? hm?
02:10.52brlcadif you set the values in the hit callback, they'll be available during the output/final callback
02:10.55andrecasteloto actually input the points
02:12.49brlcadthe x/y/z of the hitpoint is available in the hit callback
02:13.01brlcadyou could stash that into the struct
02:13.17andrecastelothe rayhit function calls the application, so that where i could get the points, am i thinking right here ?
02:14.15brlcadthe application struct is a "ray-trace application" -- it contains details about the current ray that was fired
02:14.55brlcadmight want to read through http://brlcad.org/wiki/Developing_applications quickly to understand the basic structures and callbacks
02:15.03andrecastelohm ok ok
02:15.11andrecastelobut am i on the right track? :)
02:15.16brlcadyeah
02:30.31*** join/#brlcad spike1234124214 (n=spike@eridani.acm.jhu.edu)
03:49.05CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30646 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Change variable naming conventions to match new measurements
04:17.36andrecastelogood night everyone
04:17.38andrecastelocya tomorrow
04:33.09brlcadthat's quite a few patches
04:39.46starseekerbrlcad:  Is there a quick clean way in C (or our utility libs) to concatenate strings?  I would like to say "Shape-" + variablestring + ".s" as an argument to mk_* functions
04:40.36starseeker's memories of strings and C from college are not happy ones
04:40.56pacman87sprintf?
04:41.35pacman87newstring = sprintf("Shape-%s.s", variablestring);
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04:42.35pacman87or try strcat
04:43.02pacman87but you need to make sure your string has enough room
04:43.35brlcadsnprintf ftw
04:43.49pacman87what's the 'n' do?
04:44.19brlcador bu_strlcat()
04:44.26brlcadn is the buffer length
04:44.40starseekerthanks guys
04:44.45brlcadsnprintf(buffer, size, "Shape-%s.s", variablestring);
04:44.46starseekerftw?
04:44.49brlcad~ftw
04:44.50ibotextra, extra, read all about it, ftw is wtf backwards, or for the win, or for the win
04:45.06starseekerheh
04:45.16pacman87for the win twice?
04:45.51brlcad~pacman87 is astute
04:45.51ibotbrlcad: okay
04:45.59brlcad~pacman87 is also here
04:46.00ibotokay, brlcad
04:46.03brlcad~pacman87
04:46.04ibotpacman87 is probably astute, or here
04:46.40starseekerbrlcad: is snprintf preferable to sprintf? (see both in the code)
04:46.43pacman87is that an xor?
04:46.46brlcadstarseeker: yes
04:47.00pacman87only astute when not here?
04:47.08starseekerugh
04:47.21brlcad~pacman87 is also the nick for someone on irc
04:47.22ibotbrlcad: okay
04:47.26brlcad~pacman87
04:47.27iboti guess pacman87 is astute, or here, or the nick for someone on irc
04:47.33brlcadfactoids
04:47.36starseekerdoesn't care what the length is, he just wants to use the concatentated string for a shape name...
04:47.55brlcadstarseeker: you have to put it into a buffer, so you have to care
04:47.59brlcadelse use bu_vls strings
04:48.28pacman87was wrong earlier
04:48.36brlcad~forget pacman87
04:48.36ibotbrlcad: i forgot pacman87
04:48.39pacman87int sprintf ( char * str, const char * format, ... )
04:48.46pacman87returns int, not new string
04:49.02brlcadwasn't going to get all pedantic
04:49.03pacman87~blame pacman87
04:49.04ibotACTION blames pacman87 (and Canada) for all the evil in the world
04:49.21pacman87well, if he tries to use what i said, it'd blow up on him
04:49.29brlcadit's good for him
04:49.42pacman87doesnt like lying to people
04:49.42starseekermumbles under his breath about languages that can't abstract anything and starts in with snprintf...
04:49.53brlcadshouldn't use any function on blind faith, that's why there are manpages and headers :)
04:50.37pacman87if i'm going to help, i feel obligated to help correctly
04:50.54brlcadstarseeker: you don't have to worry about the size with bu_vls strings -- that's why they're there
04:51.14brlcadotherwise you're writing into a buffer of static or allocated memory and can have a corruption if you don't check/limit your length
04:51.20starseekerOK.
04:51.29brlcadyou would just concat into a bu_vls
04:51.30starseekertakes a look a bu_vls...
04:53.33brlcadstruct bu_vls str; bu_vls_init(&str); bu_vls_printf(&str, "Shape-%s.s", variablestring); .. then later bu_vls_free(&str);  something like that, check the header for exact args
04:54.34brlcador see other examples throughout the code
04:55.23starseekerCool.
04:55.26starseekerthanks
04:56.19brlcadrelatively high-performance heap-based string management
04:57.04starseekerfigured there was something in there somewhere :-)
05:01.39starseekeris moderately bemused to note that there is no other use of any bu_vls function in proc_db according to grep
05:02.23brlcadnot surprising, tend to just find static arrays and fault intolerant code
05:04.42starseekerHmm - will mk_* functions accept a vls type?  
05:04.58brlcadbu_vls_addr(&str)
05:05.59starseekerah :-)
05:06.08starseekerjust figured out the grep that found it
05:06.08brlcad(see bu.h and wdb.h)
05:06.13starseekerrighto
05:08.21starseekerbingo - thanks brlcad!  Sorry for such an elementary question...
05:09.05brlcadthe first ones are always free ;)
05:13.04pacman87is there a brlcad elementary question market?
05:18.59starseekeris beginning to feel malloc stir like an ancient demon in the depths of his memories...
05:27.07pacman87balrog?
05:45.32starseekersomething like that :-)
05:46.28starseekerhas been lingering too long in the gentle forests of Lisplorien ;-)
05:46.57starseekerwoo-hoo:  one step closer
05:47.07starseekerhttp://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/tireshot.png
05:48.15pacman87impressive
05:48.38pacman87my revolve should make that a bit easier to do
05:48.47starseekerindeed
05:50.30CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30647 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Add option to append text to all components of a tire shape - allows for multiple definitions in one g file, required for curved subtraction of tire solid.
05:51.07starseekershould have said text to the shape names
05:51.10starseekercrud
05:52.16pacman87you're writing C code to generate the tire?
05:52.26starseekerAh, well - once I figure out the equation to automatically calculate the cutout and do some robustness testing, I should be ready for the next stage
05:52.27starseekeryep
05:52.33starseekerproc-db
05:52.41starseekerlearning exercise
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06:39.22brlcadstarseeker: eep, you should only ever init once -- you trunc it thereafter
06:40.14brlcadvery nice screenshot, though
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06:50.33brlcadlate night, eh?
06:55.42spike_nods
07:32.17brlcadburps, sips and wanders back to an editor
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08:16.04hippieindamakin8brlcad, thanks for accepting the patch Sean
08:32.32spike_stumbles off to bed
08:32.34spike_night guys
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10:05.34*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
10:08.21mafmhi
11:39.16*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
11:41.12d_rossbergpacman87: i've send you an e-mail to your gmail account
11:43.07clock_Is this GSoC somehow connected with gmail accounts?
11:43.20clock_I once wanted to open a gmail account and realized the terms and conditions are unacceptable for me
11:43.39clock_is like gmail account required to participate in the GSoC?
11:44.50archivistgmail is good for list type mail
11:45.16clock_I didn't ask about features of gmail
11:46.16d_rossbergyes, you need an gmail account to subscribe
11:46.40d_rossbergbut you don't need to use them for other things/communication
11:47.38clock_and if the gmail accounts terms and conditions are unacceptable for you then you cannot participate on GSoC?
11:48.47d_rossbergas i said: you need the account to subscribe
11:49.01archivistbend your principles a bit, it wont hurt
11:49.03clock_OK so the participation on GSoC is bound by the gmail terms and conditions
11:49.54clock_archivist: your kind request is ignored
11:50.08d_rossbergbut the gmail terms and conditions are not bound to all of your communication
11:50.47clock_whatever - I am not interested in GSoC anyway
11:50.58clock_I just wanted to know how Google behaves
11:51.55d_rossbergi use may account for GSoC only
11:53.52clock_Global System of Censorship
11:59.45starseekerbrlcad:  Ah, sorry
11:59.47starseekerfixes
12:02.48CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30648 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Truncate the string to reset it correctly.
12:29.23*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
13:02.12brlcadactually, you need a "google account" -- you can turn any e-mail into a google account
13:02.35brlcadnot just gmail
13:09.09*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
13:14.30clock_brlcad: in that case you don't actually need to agree with their non-GSoC conditions to participate in GSoC?
13:25.46brlcadright
13:27.47d_rossbergand why did i created my gmail account last year?
13:48.34brlcadd_rossberg: my bad ..
13:48.40brlcadit was a pretty prevalent misconception
13:48.50brlcadonly clarified this year
13:51.29mafmGSoC: We received more than 7,000 applications, compared with last year's count of 6,179; we look forward to bringing you more updates on applicant demographics over the next few days.
13:51.47mafmit seems that they got what they wanted, after all
13:51.54brlcadsorta
13:52.06brlcadthis year fairs rather well for students
13:52.28brlcadstudent applications only increased by about 13%
13:52.44brlcadorg/slots increased by about 30%
13:53.19brlcadso chances of getting accepted are considerably higher (on average) this year than they were last year
13:54.38mafmwell, that depends mostly on the number of *students accepted*, not the number of orgs :)
13:57.56brlcadyes, but it's already been said that the number of slots will correspond to the increase in slots
13:58.06brlcader increase in orgs
13:58.32mafmso ~1200 students
15:04.47CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30649 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (ged.c mged.bat): Removed hack that was used to have output from rt apps show up in mged's command window in gui mode.
15:39.11``Erik*yargn*
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16:35.30andrecastelohey everyone
16:35.39andrecastelohey mafm, brlcad
16:52.05mafmhi
16:52.52CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30650 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Redo the side subtractions, make tire input parameters variables
17:05.04yukonbobstarseeker: how is this project going? Fun? Difficult?
17:05.14yukonbobwaves in to the cadheads
17:34.59pacman87waves back
17:35.57pacman87yukonbob: give any more thought to your acoustic modelling?
17:53.35yukonbobpacman87: hey
17:54.12pacman87hi
17:54.25yukonbobpacman87: re: accoustic modelling -- no haven't thought more about it -- I _have_ had the idea for ~1yr, though, so the idea isn't only 1week old to me...
17:55.18yukonbobwhat I need to do is start exploring the rt facilities and just "playing" -- then determining what "light models" map to what "sonic models" and sync-up parameters (I think) :)
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18:00.58yukonbobwonders out loud: /me wonders if the best way to process a scene would be to map single-bounce waves, and order by distance to determine the time (of audio signal), and then map double-bounces, and process the same, then triple, etc., etc.
18:01.19yukonbobs/waves/rasy
18:01.22yukonbob*rays
18:03.10yukonbobs/accoustic/acoustic/
18:03.13pacman87doing  a breadth-first calculation?
18:03.35pacman87wide and shallow first, then deeper and narrower
18:04.27yukonbobwhat do you mean by "wide" and "narrow"?
18:04.48pacman87a depth-first approach would be to start with a direction
18:04.56pacman87and trace it back to the sound source
18:05.10pacman87with as many reflections as you want
18:05.25pacman87then do the same with the next direction/ray
18:05.51pacman87what you're saying is to get the first bounce from every direction
18:06.00pacman87then get the second bounce from every direction
18:06.09pacman87and so on
18:06.57yukonbobthat's right -- seems most "intuitive" to me; but could just be naive?
18:07.00pacman87ex: empty cubical room, with you and a sound source
18:07.44pacman87yukonbob: i'm pretty sure it's faster to do depth-first
18:08.25pacman87and you can keep track of the sound amplitude/volume too, and stop tracing the path back when its contribution gets too small
18:09.56pacman87depth-first can be done recursively, so you keep track of the previous hit pints
18:09.58pacman87points
18:10.04yukonbobpacman87: the way I'm imagining the processing would be doing the breadth-first, then processing all those "same level" items for time/spatialization, so it's closer to producing "serial" output
18:10.34yukonbobre: depth-first and too-small contributions -- that's a good point...
18:11.10pacman87i'm saying you'd be redoing a lot of the work finding the second level that was already done for the first level
18:11.16yukonbobnods
18:12.01yukonbobright -- I'd end up w/ some exponential Order
18:13.46pacman87for each hit, you'd need to check the direct path to the source, the reflected path (from the surface normal), and the transmitted path (through the object, direction depends on surface normal and speed of sound outside/inside the material, similar to index of refraction)
18:14.14pacman87and for each of those, you'd do the same thing again
18:15.49pacman87and stop when you get to your preset maximum path length to disregard the insignifigant parts
18:18.58pacman87of course, this all assumes that the objects are not affected by the sound waves.  i'm not sure how you'd go about modelling the actual objects vibrating
18:20.44brlcadyukonbob: have you looked at the brl-cad docs for writing a new ray-trace-based application?
18:20.59brlcadwhat you suggest shouldn't be all that much work to do
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18:28.07``Erikhttp://bash.org/?854899
18:33.43brlcad:)
18:33.45yukonbobbrlcad: I've probably seen them, but haven't reviewed them critically with this application in mind..
18:34.08``Erikhandling interference would be the hard part, I'd imagine
18:34.46brlcadbasically it's a fairly simple way to write apps that need to do energy/interaction simulations
18:35.53brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Example_Application
18:36.18brlcador the more detailed http://brlcad.org/w/images/3/3d/Application_Development.pdf
18:37.06mafmbye
18:37.25yukonbobbrlcad: cool
18:37.27brlcadcya mafm
18:37.27yukonbobreviews
18:37.34yukonbobciao mafm
18:38.19brlcadbasically it alll centers around calling rt_shootray() -- you shoot a ray and have it do this or that if you hit or miss
18:39.39brlcadso creating an image is basically shooting a grid of rays with rt_shootray(), for every miss you have background color, for every hit you color the pixel based on what you hit
18:40.14pacman87brlcad: i just replied to d_rossberg's email, you're cc'd
18:40.15brlcaddoing a simulation might involve shooting a "burst cloud" or rays with rt_shootray() and for every hit, shoot another burst cloud, recursively
18:40.21brlcadpacman87: okay
18:41.03``Erikwe need the grid generation crap hoisted into librt :/
18:41.06brlcadI've not read the initial exchange in detail myself, but it sounds like a lot of the discussion is about sweeping, not revolutions
18:41.34brlcadthinks "solids of revolution" when he reads a revolve -- which are fairly well-defined
18:41.36pacman87well, the revolution is a special case of a sweep
18:42.01brlcadsure, it's a subset, but the math behind that subset is a helluvalot simpler :)
18:42.28brlcadparticularly for implementing things like tess() and plot()
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20:21.47prasad_what's the best yacc implementation these days
20:21.53prasad_bison or byacc?
20:24.18``Erikbest for what? O.o bison is the gnu version, byacc is the bsd version... different philosophies
20:24.35prasad_ic
20:25.01prasad_best for getting a passing grade
20:25.02prasad_:o
20:25.44yukonbobprasad_ what are you trying to do?
20:26.20prasad_modify the yacc spec of this compiler for my class
20:26.32prasad_dling bison for cygwin right now
20:26.37``Erikif the spec works with byacc, it's damn solid... bison is ... extended
20:26.40prasad_so hoping it'll be enough
20:27.31prasad_erik the defender of bsd
20:27.34prasad_;)
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21:22.18``Erikdefender of tools that "just work, damnit" :D
22:43.32yukonbobin prasad_'s case, the answer for "which tool" is "whatever tool that grammar is for"
23:04.06``ErikI thought I'd alluded to that, but I guess I wasn't very clear :D
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080409

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080409

00:29.46*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
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01:43.17andrecastelogood evening
01:43.18andrecastelohi brlcad
01:54.03brlcadhowdy andrecastelo
02:05.04andrecastelogood night guys hehehe
02:05.16andrecastelotomorrow i'll be here the whole day :b hehe
02:05.18andrecastelocya
02:34.41starseekeryukonbob:  Yes and yes :-)
03:34.00yukonbobstarseeker: heh :)
04:41.18*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (i=127@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu)
04:44.31CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30651 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Fix subtractions for ell intersections so wireframe does not extend so far beyond actual tire surface.
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07:43.50brlcadyay brep csg reply
07:44.06brlcadwaves g'morning/g'night to d_rossberg
08:35.23d_rossbergwishes a well sleeping to brlcad!
09:56.23*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
09:56.58mafmhallo
10:50.36*** join/#brlcad SJ (n=surya@203.200.95.130)
10:50.44SJhey guys
11:00.24mafmhey
11:01.52SJthis is hippieindamakin8 btw :)
11:06.00mafm:D
11:18.49SJsean can u gimme a link to Mr.Mike Muuss's papers on ray tracing
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13:12.19andrecastelohi everyone
13:13.47mafmhi
14:40.58brlcadyawns
15:00.27prasad_arrr
15:06.48``Erikyaaarrrgggghhhhhh, matey
15:08.45pooliobrlcad: shouldn't you bet at work already? :)
15:17.07mafmnobody should bet at work, specially with the bosses
15:19.32pooliomafm: yeah yeah...I'm still getting used to this keyboard
15:24.09mafmwhich keyboard is that?
15:27.56brlcadpoolio: yep
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16:38.51yukonbobmorning cadheads
16:39.43andrecasteloyukonbob: good morning / afternoon :)
16:59.17andrecastelois there a point list structure already implemented in brlcad ?
17:01.57*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@static-70-108-244-218.res.east.verizon.net)
17:27.17CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30652 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/nsis/brlcad.nsi: ReadEnvStr must be called within a function or a section. Also, PROGRAMFILES cannot be set (i.e. its a constant defined by nsis). Put the ReadEnvStr inside the .onInit callback function.
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18:40.26mafmheading off, take care
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19:19.34*** join/#brlcad fi-dschi (n=philipp@p5498A033.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
19:53.58fi-dschihello, is there somebody listening?
19:54.53fi-dschiI need some help as I don't succeed in compiling brlcad for arch linux i686
19:56.01fi-dschiYou may look at the last 263 lines of output at http://pastebin.com/m55261921
19:57.16fi-dschiIt seems to be a problem connected to asc2g
19:57.49fi-dschiMy CFLAGS and CXXFLAGS are -march=athlon-xp -O2 -pipe
20:48.21brlcadfi-dschi: hello
20:48.49fi-dschihello
20:49.09brlcadfi-dschi: I can't get to pastebin.com from current location, could you repost to pastebin.bzflag.bz ?
20:49.16fi-dschiok
20:50.43fi-dschibrlcad:http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m42158c73
20:51.27prasad_who has vmware expreience
20:51.34brlcadfi-dschi: well the good news is that the build completed
20:51.57brlcad~translate de en Ungültiger Maschinenbefehl
20:52.26fi-dschiin en it is invalid machine code
20:52.44prasad_~translate jp en konichiwa
20:52.49fi-dschihello
20:52.51prasad_boo
20:53.02prasad_~translate en jp hello
20:53.10prasad_ah nice :)
20:53.55brlcadfi-dschi: if you run "src/conv/asc2g", what does it report?
20:54.00brlcadsame error?
20:54.03brlcador a usage statement?
20:54.52fi-dschitells me how to use
20:55.02fi-dschiUsage: asc2g file.asc file.g ....
20:55.20brlcadtry: cd db && ../src/conv/asc2g operators.asc operators.g
20:55.38fi-dschifrom inside src/conv?
20:55.44fi-dschiah, ok
20:56.02brlcadno, from inside db/
20:56.09fi-dschithis gives me "invalid machine instruction"
20:56.12brlcadrather .. from the top level
20:56.13brlcadhm
20:56.43brlcadthen from db/ try this:  ../libtool --mode=execute gdb --args ../src/conv/asc2g operators.asc operators.g
20:57.39fi-dschireports that there is no lobtool in ../
20:58.16brlcadhopefully no libtool?
20:58.24fi-dschiyes, of course
20:58.24brlcadnot lobtool :)
20:58.27brlcadok
20:58.53brlcadthat's odd .. are you building out of dir?
20:59.16fi-dschino, this is done by some tools
20:59.40brlcadfind /home/philipp/Software/abs/brlcad/src/brlcad-7.12.0 -name libtool
20:59.40fi-dschibut the files should be from the src archive
21:00.08fi-dschiok, it is therr
21:00.09brlcadhello andrecastelo :)
21:00.15fi-dschithis was my mistake
21:00.18brlcadthen ../libtool should have worked.. ;)
21:00.22fi-dschino
21:00.41fi-dschiah ok
21:00.42brlcad"then from db/ try this"
21:00.49fi-dschii didn't understand something else
21:00.52brlcadk
21:00.55fi-dschi../libtool: line 6566: exec: gdb: not found
21:01.02brlcadeep
21:01.03fi-dschithat's the output
21:01.05brlcadno gdb installed?
21:01.24fi-dschithanks
21:01.35fi-dschithis is missing as a deendency
21:01.55fi-dschiok, so I wil try again with gdb, thank you very much
21:02.10fi-dschithis will need some time
21:02.53brlcadwhat platform type is this?
21:03.03fi-dschiplatform type?
21:03.06fi-dschii686?
21:03.06brlcadhardware
21:03.12fi-dschiathlon xp
21:04.42brlcadhmm, an easy/quick test would be to take off the -march=athlon-xp option and see if the instruction error goes away
21:05.01fi-dschidoes it compile faster then?
21:05.12prasad_heh
21:05.25brlcadif you want a fast test compile, use the default options
21:05.38brlcadmaybe just ./configure --enable-all
21:05.43brlcadno flags
21:06.25fi-dschitis is all done by scripts, I normally type "makepkg" which will download the sources, compile and create a package for the pkgmanager of archlinux
21:06.41fi-dschibut I will try manually
21:11.23brlcadahh, the archlinux guy hangs out here
21:11.38fi-dschiyes, thats me
21:11.44brlcadoh heh
21:11.58fi-dschidid you read the package comments?
21:12.25brlcadare you louipc ?
21:12.31fi-dschino, this is the maintainer
21:12.34fi-dschii am fi-dschi
21:27.34brlcadokay, fi-dschi -- sorry about that :)
21:27.57brlcadfrom our perspective, we've only dealt with lou to date
21:28.13brlcadhe commits the archlinux changes directly to our repository misc/archlinux in your sources
21:31.55fi-dschihe told me to ask for help in this channel
21:39.05brlcadi highly suspect the problem has to do with the compilation settings and math computations, but it's really hard to say without seeing a stack trace
21:39.15brlcadthat error just usually indicates bad compiler ju ju
21:40.15fi-dschiis there still a problem? I thought there was simply gdb missing?
21:40.48brlcadhm?
21:41.34brlcadgdb was just to try to figure out why it was reporting a bad machine instruction
21:42.28fi-dschioh, so it should now give a more detailed error message?
21:45.31brlcadright
21:45.36brlcadto see if it was code or compiler
21:45.39brlcador both
21:46.01fi-dschiok, compilation has just finished
21:46.10fi-dschiand there are no errors as far as i can see
21:46.35brlcadah, cool
21:46.54brlcadthat would 'likely' be a compiler bug for that -march
21:47.09brlcador something being provoked with non-ieee floats or something similar
21:47.29fi-dschiok, i will try again with my cflags or what else can i doß
21:47.33fi-dschi?
21:47.53brlcadtry again with --enable-optimized later
21:48.23brlcadthat turns on a lot more optimization flags, still hardware generic, but should do much better than O2
21:48.50*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669639.dsl.bell.ca)
21:48.53brlcadhave you seen the PKGBUILD file loui wrote up?
21:48.56brlcadspeak of the devil
21:48.58louipc:D
21:49.01fi-dschi:D
21:49.07fi-dschiyes
21:49.08louipcyeah I was coming in for that exact purpose
21:49.17brlcadhowdy louipc
21:49.28fi-dschidid you get the post?
21:49.42louipcyep
21:51.13louipcyeah I took out any special configure flags, only --prefix is left because I had a problem with asc2g recently and was going to debug. but it worked fine with the flags removed hehe
21:52.55louipcbrlcad: greetings indeed
21:54.18louipcfi-dschi: maybe the ./configure output might give a clue... particularly the summary
21:54.49fi-dschifor the default ./configure? one moment
21:55.16louipcooh nevermind you found the problem?
21:55.36fi-dschime? no. i donÄt even understand what is going on!
21:55.56brlcadlouipc: the error is a run-time machine code error .. which is usually compilation settings or floating point data
21:55.57louipcdoes it work if you have gdb installed?
21:56.16fi-dschiwith ./configure --all-enabled, yes
21:56.43louipcbrlcad: yeah I was thinking something along those lines
21:56.49brlcadit worked if he removed his custom CFLAGS, which includes the -march optimization flag for a particular generation of athlons
21:57.20brlcadI suspect it's just that -march flag causing the problem
21:58.37louipcah
21:58.39louipcnods
21:59.08brlcadathlon-xp is either buggy or not the right architecture
21:59.16louipcfi-dschi: it should work with just generic x86_64 flags
21:59.44fi-dschiis this used by ./configure --all-enabled?
21:59.46louipcwell another user told me it works :D
21:59.56brlcad--enable-optimized should do the trick if performance is what you're going for
22:00.16brlcadfi-dschi: run "uname -a"
22:00.26fi-dschibut athlon-xp should be the optimized flag for me?
22:00.27louipcfi-dschi: ./configure by itself
22:00.43fi-dschiLinux PHPC_ARCH 2.6.24-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Sun Mar 30 11:40:06 CEST 2008 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
22:00.55louipc:D
22:01.27fi-dschisome problems in the past made me think that athlon-xp was wrong
22:01.39louipcya
22:01.46fi-dschibut my cpu is called athlon-xp
22:01.55fi-dschiit is even printed on it
22:02.16louipcoh you're running i686 cool
22:02.47brlcad./configure --enable-all --enable-optimized CFLAGS="-mtune=i686"
22:02.52fi-dschithis is the archlinux default isn't it?
22:03.40louipcarchlinux default flags are CFLAGS="-march=i686 -mtune=generic -O2 -pipe"
22:03.48louipcif you go with that it should work
22:03.50fi-dschiok, i see
22:03.52brlcadthat doesn't necessarily mean that gcc thinks you have what it calls athlon-xp nor does it mean that the optimization loop in gcc isn't buggy ;)
22:04.43fi-dschibut shouldn't i be looking for the best fit?
22:04.43brlcadnotes that --enable-optimized is more agressive than "-march=i686 -mtune=generic -O2 -pipe"
22:04.49fi-dschiathlon, athlon-xp, i686?
22:05.14fi-dschiit has a higher priority?
22:05.20brlcadfi-dschi: it really won't matter -- the difference is going to be minimal
22:06.29fi-dschithere are just so many sites telling you which cflags you should use :)
22:06.40louipchehe
22:08.06fi-dschianother question to the above: what does "enable-optimized" do? does it e.g. use athlon-xp if this is the best fitting?
22:08.44louipcit takes twice as long ;D
22:09.07brlcadfi-dschi: in the summary at the end of configure, it tells ou the flags it'll use
22:09.14brlcads/ou/you/
22:10.50brlcadit basically turns on several optimization flags, almost as many as it can without modifying ieee behavior or becoming platform/hardware dependent
22:10.50fi-dschiso what are the settings in makepkg.conf for if the configure script can find the best flags on its own?
22:11.31fi-dschidoes this create platform depedency?
22:11.37louipcit's for packages which don't have such cool configure options :D
22:12.03brlcadarchlinux users may also just want to override the flags with their own, or make their build platform dependent (for that extra 2% performance)
22:12.31louipcthat too, but we're generally not ricers
22:12.32fi-dschiok, so let's set the flags back to default :)
22:12.44louipcfi-dschi: good idea
22:13.49louipcCXXFLAGS are the same as well
22:14.39fi-dschiyes, i know that
22:19.04fi-dschii will try to recompile with makepkg tomorrow. If there are problems you will hear from me again :). Thank ou so far and good night.
22:19.17fi-dschis/ou/you/ ;)
22:19.23brlcadcheers
22:19.25louipcalright take care
22:45.49*** join/#brlcad spike_ (i=[U2FsdGV@centaur.acm.jhu.edu)
22:46.19spike_is running off to the gym, brb
23:06.53brlcadcya
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080410

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080410

00:58.56andrecastelohi guys
00:58.58andrecasteloi'm back
00:59.00andrecastelohey brlcad
01:00.03brlcadhowdy andrecastelo
01:00.15brlcadwas just going through more applications now
01:00.20andrecastelohey, i have something to show you
01:00.33brlcadI hope you have your pants on
01:00.46andrecastelolol hehehe
01:01.27andrecastelobrlcad: here -> http://pastebin.com/m1cd03a7a
01:01.47andrecastelocan you give me some feedback ? :)
01:03.27CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r30653 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/ (opt.c rt.1 view.c):
01:03.27CIA-20BRL-CAD: Added a -k option to rt. Specifies a cutting plane to allow faster computation
01:03.27CIA-20BRL-CAD: of cutaway images. Note that this produces an approximation of the image that
01:03.27CIA-20BRL-CAD: would be produced by actually subtracting the equivalent halfspace. This may
01:03.27CIA-20BRL-CAD: satisfy bug #1812560 Cutaway view 210x slower.
01:05.15brlcadandrecastelo: nice work
01:06.08brlcadthe only suggestion I'd make would be instead of using that forw linked list pointer, toss in a struct bu_list * instead
01:06.37brlcadthat's our linked list structure (technically a bidirectional linked list, there are a variety of BU_ macros related to it in include/bu.h)
01:06.52andrecastelohm ok, like struct point_list { struct bu_list * point_bu_list; point_t pt_cell; }; ?
01:07.12andrecasteloyeah, i did notice and i first tried something that could be used with those macros
01:07.29andrecastelobut i didn't know it deeply
01:07.34andrecasteloi'll change and use the macros
01:07.39brlcadyeah, that's the basic idea
01:07.47brlcadmaybe a better name :)
01:08.02brlcadusually hp or head
01:08.17brlcador l
01:08.18*** join/#brlcad DaytonaJohn (n=jra@c-68-55-36-65.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
01:08.23brlcadusually 'l'
01:09.02andrecasteloPointListHead ?
01:18.17brlcadstruct bu_list *l;
01:19.34brlcaddoesn't really what you name it though -- you loop via the macros and a ref to whatever you call it
01:23.23brlcadDaytonaJohn: did you see the message from leslie?
01:28.34andrecastelodo i have to declare a struct * bu_list or a struct * point_list to iterate through the list ?
01:30.51andrecastelonevermind
01:31.58brlcaddue to the good ol' nature of C, you can actually cast between the two so long as the list is the first element
01:32.19brlcadgood ol polymorphism bastardization of C :)
01:32.51brlcadbut in practice, you generally refer to struct point_list *my_list; then use my_list.l
01:34.21andrecastelobrlcad: http://pastebin.com/d59ab103c
01:42.05brlcadandrecastelo: looks better, so the last two things would be to fill in the list and print the CPA in the summary
01:43.00andrecastelook.. one thing - i'm having trouble with bu_list - i need a struct point_list * forw in struct point_list ?
01:46.32brlcadno, bu_list provides it
01:46.37brlcadyou don't worry about forward/next
01:47.32andrecasteloweird
01:47.43andrecasteloif i don't put it, i get this error - http://pastebin.com/m2fb6cdb1
01:48.20brlcadandrecastelo: there's a fairly straight-forward bu_list example in src/libbu/temp.c
01:48.29andrecastelook, i'll take a look
01:49.29brlcadah, yes, you need to pass the .l to BU_FOR
01:49.34brlcadnot just area_p->area_points
01:49.52brlcadso something like area_p->area_points->l
01:50.23brlcadit's usually not a pointer so you don't have to worry about memory allocation of your head node
01:50.39andrecasteloah ok
01:51.12brlcadif you make it not a pointer, it becomes something like &(area_p->area_points.l)
01:51.41brlcadinteresting, it looks like the initial slot allocations can be roughly characterized as log(#submissions)^2 * 2
01:53.17andrecastelowhere #submissions is ?
01:53.22andrecasteloah nvm lol
01:53.59andrecastelohow many submissions did brl-cad receive ?
01:55.06brlcadmore than enough :)
01:55.37brlcadDaytonaJohn: sending note out now
01:55.45andrecasteloponders a new way to get that information
01:55.55andrecastelohehehe
01:56.03DaytonaJohnbrlcad: good, I'll watch for it
02:00.46andrecastelohey brlcad : the center point is related to presented area or exposed area ?? (if exposed, just gather the points in ray_hit() ??)
02:00.54andrecastelorayhit*
02:10.55brlcadandrecastelo: technically for either, but exposed is what it usually refers to
02:11.06brlcadthat's the one they care about
02:12.31andrecastelohm ok
02:13.56andrecasteloso, to make it versatile, struct area should have two lists of points ?
02:16.59CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30654 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
02:16.59CIA-20BRL-CAD: john added a new -k 'kutaway view' option to rt that allows users to specify a
02:16.59CIA-20BRL-CAD: cutting plane for fast(er) computation of cutaway images that approximates the
02:16.59CIA-20BRL-CAD: image that would be produced by actually subtracting the equivalent halfspace
02:16.59CIA-20BRL-CAD: and potentially satisfies clock's sf bug 1812560 (Cutaway view 210x slower) but
02:17.01CIA-20BRL-CAD: still makes this an absurd-yet-fun run-on sentence.
02:18.00brlcadandrecastelo: yeah, if you wanted to match what that struct does, you'll see it keeps a counter for both presented and exposed
02:19.23brlcadthe faster parellel-smp-safe way would be to utilize a fixed results array for all possible hit points, so all cpus could fill in values for a given cell independently
02:19.39brlcadas it stands implemented, there's massive lock contention on those counter variables
02:20.01brlcadthat's a bigger change though, for later
02:22.00CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30655 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: No functionality change - just adding some options for printing Maxima style equations for debugging. Committing for now so they're available if I have to throw out subsequent tests.
02:22.10brlcadheh
02:23.35starseekerSorry brlcad, I'll back out the noise later - just playing safe in case I need 'em tomorrow
02:24.27starseekerfinds it makes life easier if he can just cut and paste for confirmation with Maxima's linsolve...
02:31.37brlcadno skin off my back, it's your proc-db :)
02:31.51brlcadjust funny matching maxima's output :)
02:32.09brlcadshould make some libbn output formatters :)
02:32.35brlcadpacman87: *ping*
02:33.01pacman87brlcad: pong
02:33.23yukonbobwaves in
02:37.55andrecastelothe second parameter of bu_malloc() is for what exactly?? (genptr bu_malloc(size_t, const char *))
02:41.09brlcaddebugging label
02:41.15brlcadjust but the name of the object
02:41.18brlcad"foo"
02:41.24brlcads/but/put/
02:41.52brlcadthe run-time debugging facilities will hierarchically print out the labels for allocation/deallocation
02:42.24brlcadso you usually set it as "alloc area_points" during bu_malloc and "free area_points" during bu_free
02:42.55brlcadso you can match up allocations/deallocations (if that is what you're debugging)
02:43.07andrecastelohm ok ok
02:43.30brlcadranks andrecastelo's app
02:43.47andrecasteloshakes
02:44.20brlcadhmm, I still need more info from several people
02:44.24pacman87brlcad: you wanted me?
02:44.55brlcadheya pacman87
02:45.03brlcadoh, missed the pong, jeez
02:45.10brlcadtoo quick for me :)
02:45.36pacman87dorm room, so i'm usually not very far from my computer ;)
02:46.20brlcadhmm.. what did I want you for, oh yes -- I know we've talked about it, but are you still intending to submit a patch?
02:46.40pacman87yes
02:46.53pacman87i'm coding now
02:47.05pacman87my second test this week was tonight
02:56.51brlcadokay, cool
02:57.14brlcadif all you can get done is just one or two of the callback funcs for what you were implementing, that's certainly better than nothing
02:58.27pacman87when do you want it by?
03:06.43brlcadI'd suggest just submitting what you have (presuming "something" works) so it can be reviewed (some of the mentors have only tomorrow to rank, others longer) and then continuing from there if you want through to absolutely no later than the 16th
03:08.02pacman87brlcad: i'm not sure how 'testable' it will be without adding it to mged or the other steps
03:08.34brlcadtestable in the sense of being able to add it to the build, get it to compile :)
03:08.40brlcadwe can read code ;)
03:08.52pacman87i'm planning on submitting it when i get done tonight
03:08.58brlcadokay
03:09.01pacman87'get done' = wnen i go to bed ;)
03:09.36pacman87and keep working on it until it's usable
03:10.49brlcadcool
03:30.22andrecastelowell, i'm off to bed now
03:30.33andrecasteloi'll take care of this tomorrow ;)
03:30.37andrecastelocya guys
03:31.13brlcadcya andrecastelo
03:31.23andrecastelocya brlcad
03:32.59brlcad~seen mafm
03:33.01ibotmafm <n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 8h 52m 35s ago, saying: 'heading off, take care'.
03:33.46brlcadyukonbob & ``Erik: you've got mail
04:03.48brlcad~seen jdoliner
04:03.49ibotjdoliner <n=jdoliner@wireless-239-77.uchicago.edu> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 8d 9h 53m 2s ago, saying: 'brlcad are you present?'.
04:09.07pacman87mergesort for a 4-element list is probably overkill :)
04:10.56starseekergrowls... the solver isn't in agreement with maxima, but the difference is harder to spot this time...
04:15.25brlcadpacman87: probably :)
04:17.50pacman87but i didn't feel like coding a mess of nested if-else blocks
05:32.00yukonbobbrlcad: /me sees he's got mail -- also thinks he's running a misconfigured MTA :P -- gotsta fix so I'm not part of the spam problem...
05:50.02brlcadyukonbob: hm? misconfigured mta?
06:06.41*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@217-162-111-200.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:02.14spike_thinks its time to sleep, night everyone
07:02.56*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
07:41.36pacman87what are uv_du and uv_dv used for in struct uvcoord?
08:19.25hippieindamakin8:( so the patch was useless
08:20.22pacman87hippieindamakin8: what patch?
08:21.08hippieindamakin8i submitted a patch for nsis script
08:21.35pacman87non-english windows %PROGRAM FILES%?
08:21.42pacman87or was that a different one
08:22.10hippieindamakin8kind of yes :)
08:22.36pacman87why is it useless?
08:22.45hippieindamakin8it doesnt work :P
08:22.54hippieindamakin8as brlcad pointed out
08:23.04pacman87you know why not?
08:23.18hippieindamakin8and did u submit any ?
08:23.25pacman87i'm compiling now
08:23.28pacman87to make sure it works
08:23.39hippieindamakin8ohh
08:23.51hippieindamakin8i dint chk it as i dint have windows with me..
08:24.01pacman87cross your fingers :)
08:24.08hippieindamakin8which patch are u working on ?
08:24.19pacman87adding a hyperboloid of one sheet
08:24.31pacman87it's not completely finished yet
08:24.37hippieindamakin8:)
08:24.40hippieindamakin8naice
08:24.59pacman87still needs a few functions implemented, and hooks into mged
08:25.58hippieindamakin8so implementing a new primitive
08:26.14pacman87an 'easy' primitive
08:26.34pacman87since my GSoC proposal is implementing 'hard' primitive(s)
08:34.20hippieindamakin8:)
08:34.37hippieindamakin8i shall start working on another patch :)
08:34.47pacman87got an idea?
08:53.31pacman87my computer is embarassingly slow
08:55.25clock_pacman87: ZX Spectrum?
08:58.37pacman87clock_: not quite :)
09:00.03pacman872.8 GHz P4, 533MHz FSB, 1280MB DDR2700 RAM
09:02.07hippieindamakin8i have no idea looking through the bugs and the to do list
09:06.27pacman874:04 - time not found
09:34.22*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
09:35.26mafmhi
09:35.33pacman87hi mafm
09:59.26*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
10:08.58pacman87~pastebin
10:08.59ibot[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste
10:10.12pacman87http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m4039501d
10:10.39pacman87if anyone could shed some light on that, i'd be quite grateful
10:14.00pacman87i'm holding off on the patch until brlcad actually compiles, but until then, here's the g_hyp.c: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/g_hyp.c
11:07.35*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
11:52.10*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.198.227)
12:03.24*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.198.227)
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13:38.30*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.41.1)
13:38.39andrecastelogood morning everyone
13:40.20brlcadgood morning andrecastelo
13:41.50brlcadpacman87: uv coordinates are for uv mapping :)  e.g., wrapping a texture
13:45.11brlcadpacman87: should post up the file to the patches tracker and link it in your app too, but looks good
13:47.59brlcadandrecastelo: similar for you, don't see a patch link in your app
13:48.23brlcadah, found it
13:48.54andrecastelobrlcad: i'm still brewing my patch :) but i'll link to it once it's ready
13:49.05brlcadyeah, just remembered
13:49.13``Erik*yawn*
13:59.05andrecastelohey brlcad, can i use rayhit() (in viewarea.c) to store the points in the areas ? could i use partition->hit->hit_point ?
13:59.47brlcadyou shouldn't modify the partition directly
13:59.57brlcadother than readin git
14:00.28brlcadbut otherwise, yes -- rayhit is the hit callback, so that's where you know what/where you hit the geometry for a given cell
14:00.51andrecasteloyeah, i could read the partition->hit->hit_points and store them in the respective areas
14:07.30brlcadhippieindamakin8: did you not put your irc nick in your proposal?  I don't see it (you did read the submission guidelines, right?) .. and you've not done well to answer your app comments
14:08.32brlcadwanders for a bit
14:09.05*** join/#brlcad camcorder (n=draco@81.213.157.51)
14:10.06hippieindamakin8hey i am answering it rt now
14:15.47hippieindamakin8brlcad, i am sorry .. been a bit busy with the end semester exams appraoching ya i am updating them
14:17.15Axman6i has my last mid-sem tonight
14:17.20Axman6on haskell!
14:22.02pacman87brlcad: re; uv mapping, i know what the U and V are, but i'm not sure what du and dv are for.   struct uvcoords has 4 members, not just the two
14:23.03Axman6change in u and v?
14:23.07``Erikdorks with this silly spreadsheet thingiemajigger
14:23.13Axman6as in, delta u, delta v
14:23.31Axman6or some odd form of derivitive?
14:23.58Axman6wow, i've been doing way too much physics, calculus and linear algebra
14:26.13pacman87Axman6: that was my guess too, but i'm not sure what it's with respect to (as in dy/dx)
14:26.37Axman6du/dv?
14:26.46Axman6chain rule stylez
14:27.21hippieindamakin8in brlcad if i get it rt.. mged accesses the primitive from librt and that particular file in librt renders it as well
14:28.16hippieindamakin8pacman87, it is not dy/dx it is delta u and delta v
14:28.31hippieindamakin8its not the gradient it is the difference
14:28.37Axman6whoot, i was right
14:28.55hippieindamakin8ya Axman6
14:28.55pacman87difference between what?
14:30.13hippieindamakin8i dont know wat u are dealing with pacman87 :) i am not sure :P
14:31.44hippieindamakin8if u and v are the co-ordinated delta u is increment
14:32.59pacman87right, but the increment to what?  you need two points to get the difference
14:34.21Axman6well, it could be used for a matrix...
14:34.30Axman61 0 du
14:34.36Axman60 1 dv
14:34.41Axman60 0 1
14:34.48hippieindamakin8pacman87, i really dont know wat u are dealing with :)
14:35.17hippieindamakin8pacman87, can u send me if there is some good material for raytracing
14:35.36Axman6apply that to a point (u,v,1), and you'll get (u+du,v+dv,1)
14:36.00Axman6learnt this today in his linear algebra lecture
14:37.17andrecastelosuddenly realizes he has to study linear algebra again
14:50.10pacman87hippieindamakin8: the book i found is 'an introduction to ray tracing', ed. Glassner, isbn0-12-286160-4
14:51.44archivistGlassner, thats a name I remember, hes done a few books (Graphics Gems etc)
14:53.50pacman87this book is essentially the notes from the siggraph 88 course on ray tracing
14:56.49archivistwe had a user in ##asm saying he was doing ray tracing in assembler yesterday
15:04.02pacman87any thoughts on this: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m4039501d
15:04.55pacman87i'm currently going back and re-applying my changes one by one to see what broke it
15:41.34*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54877365.dip.t-dialin.net)
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16:50.09hippieindamakin8thanks pacman87
16:51.45hippieindamakin8pacman87, do u have an e version of this book ?
16:52.26andrecastelopacman87: i'd be interested in that too hehehe
17:02.46pacman87hippieindamakin8 & andrecastelo: no, just the hard copy from my uni library
17:02.49pacman87sorry
17:03.12hippieindamakin8ohh i just looked up the lib database :( it aint in the library
17:06.50pacman87http://books.google.com/books?id=YPblYyLqBM4C&dq=%22an+introduction+to+ray+tracing%22+glassner&pg=PP1&ots=yY581FriR9&sig=HyIgo17F5oFn7gfy_NTdKky-En4&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=opera&rls=en&hs=eE0&q=%22an+introduction+to+ray+tracing%22+glassner&btnG=Search&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title&cad=one-book-with-thumbnail
17:10.41hippieindamakin8tx
17:12.47pacman87missing pieces here and there, but that's about as close as you're going to get
17:13.49pacman87i found the book by looking at course websites for graphics classes, under the prof's 'suggested reading'
17:13.52hippieindamakin8:)
17:13.58hippieindamakin8ohh
17:14.13hippieindamakin8ill look up MIT's OCW once
17:16.19pacman87got a 96 on his tuesday test
17:16.39hippieindamakin8:) which subject?
17:16.45pacman87circuits
17:17.00pacman87second order and AC steady state/phasor analysis
17:17.13hippieindamakin8ohh which major are u ?
17:17.25pacman87i'm a MechE, but i'm taking EE courses for fun
17:18.08pacman87i only need one more ME course, a gov, and 3 electives to graduate
17:18.11hippieindamakin8hates Mech Engg.
17:18.17pacman87and i've still got two full semesters left
17:18.33pacman87what major are you?
17:18.33hippieindamakin8sadly i am also enrolled in Mech. Eng
17:18.45pacman87why don't you like it?
17:19.13hippieindamakin83rd year Mech.Engg .. i hate Fluids,i hate Manufacturing
17:19.22hippieindamakin8i hate material sciences :)
17:19.56pacman87once you get navier-stokes, fluids is easy
17:20.02hippieindamakin8i am interested in computer vision , CAD and robotics
17:20.13pacman87woot, compile worked
17:20.23pacman87forgot --enable-all on the configure
17:20.44pacman87time to make the patch files
17:20.51hippieindamakin8and it is just Navier Stokes equation and why dont u get a computer to solve the equations :P rather than getting it solved by the students in the written exam
17:21.01hippieindamakin8congrats
17:25.35hippieindamakin8andrecastelo, this can be of some help
17:25.38hippieindamakin8http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Electrical-Engineering-and-Computer-Science/6-837Fall2003/LectureNotes/index.htm
17:29.18pacman87just realized his uv mapping ignores the top/bottom plates :(
17:35.15brlcadpacman87: that error is because it's using a system tcl/tk 8.4 yet compiling the bundled incrTcl (which requires 8.5) -- so you either have to --enable-all on configure (or at least --enable-tcl and --enable-tk) or you can try installing a system incrTcl for 8.4
17:38.14pacman87brlcad: thanks, i realized that this morning, when a vanilla svn co gave the same error
17:38.42pacman87everything compiles now on my end
17:38.49pacman87and ive got the patch files
17:38.55pacman87last thing to do is fix my UV mapping
17:41.32brlcadcool
17:57.10andrecastelohey brlcad.. i'm getting this http://pastebin.com/d47b91c2e when trying to compile this http://pastebin.com/d364f3ce5 ...
17:57.30andrecastelothe compile error on line 6 is the weirdest
17:58.06andrecasteloalso, the snippet of code is inside rayhit(), in the exposed areas "for()" block
17:59.19andrecasteloany clues ?
17:59.42yukonbobwaves in
18:06.27andrecastelowell, i'll have to go now, i'll try this later
18:06.29andrecastelocya guys
18:08.55pacman87patch is up: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1939611&group_id=105292&atid=640804
18:10.54CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30656 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Fix two bugs in matrix solver.
18:17.38mafmbye
18:17.43brlcadcya mafm
18:22.06``Erikblargh
18:22.44brlcadhey yukonbob
18:24.35brlcadpacman87: heh -- for future reference, svn is way better at making patches for you
18:24.38brlcadsvn add src/librt/g_hyp.c
18:24.50brlcadthen svn status to see what files you've changed/added/removed
18:25.00brlcadthen svn diff > your.patch
18:25.08brlcadand it'll have everything in it (including the new file)
18:25.22brlcadmuch easier to apply that way
18:26.31``Erik*snicker*
18:26.32``ErikDuring a screening interview, I was asked how I would design a bike fit for someone visually impaired. I responded something to the effect of, "What, like, for blind people?", and she answered yes.
18:26.32``ErikI thought for a moment and then I responded, "Well.. a blind person riding a bike doesn't sound like a very safe idea, so I would make the bike stationary, maybe with a fan blowing in the person's face. He probably wouldn't even know the difference."
18:27.08brlcadhehe
18:31.24pacman87brlcad: svn diff kept including all the makefiles and that sort of thing
18:31.40``Eriksvn should ignore the generated files :/
18:33.54brlcadit should ignore anything you've not svn added too
18:34.14pacman87there's a bunch of .dsp files
18:34.17``Erikyeh, don't do "svn add *"
18:34.19brlcadyou probably did edit the src/librt/Makefile.am -- that could go in the patch
18:34.30brlcadpacman87: ahh.. that would be your editor
18:34.32pacman87i did, and it's there
18:34.36brlcadshame on it :)
18:34.49brlcadsvn status shows files it thinks are modified with an M
18:34.53brlcadthe dsp files shouldn't be modified
18:34.59brlcadsvn revert those files
18:35.11brlcadsvn revert any file you didn't intentionally edit
18:35.19brlcadthen they shouldn't be in the diff
18:35.30pacman87well, that's why i just diff'd the files i did edit
18:35.35brlcadthat matters anyways for commit, if you'd svn commit, you'd be commiting those files with changes too
18:36.08brlcadyeah, you can always svn diff path/to/file.c path/to/file2.c ... > mypatch
18:36.30brlcadbut those files shouldn't be modified -- that's a misconfiguration somewhere along the line
18:39.12brlcadpacman87: here's the config file I usually use:  http://brlcad.org/~sean/subversion.config
18:42.00pacman87and that goes in ./.svn/?
18:42.44brlcadcan copy that to ~/.subversion/config
18:46.39*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@210.212.55.3)
18:48.19``Erikhum, in g_hyp.c, the import/export functions use ntohd/htond solely instead of using ntohl/htonl on the long ints (like magics) O.o ("shoudl work" on most current os's, but isn' guaranteed)
19:02.21pacman87``Erik: i haven't implemented those yet, what's currently there now is what was in g_xxx.c
19:03.18pacman87the patch details lists the functions i've actually done
19:06.23``Erikimport5/export5 I meant, no one cares about v4 anymore :)
19:06.32yukonbob``Erik: re: bike -- LOL
19:07.11``Erikhrm? oh, clear? my favorite color :D
19:09.53``Erikhas been saying that since highschool
19:29.45pacman87anyone care to give this a read through? http://brlcad.org/wiki/Revolve_Primitive
19:34.22CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30657 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Testing new way of specifying top ellipse.
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19:59.46yukonbobloads pacman87's post
20:03.53``Erikew, rar
20:08.11``Erikthinks this is a menu driven console bank transaction program, looks like it's for a class?
20:11.58``Erikah, yeah, heh, on the page... 'simplify and simulate a bank'
20:57.56``Erikwiggles his toes
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080411

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080411

00:14.15*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu)
01:02.04*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.41.1)
01:03.06andrecastelogood evening everyone ;)
01:06.47hippieindamakin8good morning andrecastelo
01:25.12brlcadahhh, waht a day
01:31.10spike_waves at everyone
01:38.12andrecastelohey brlcad
01:38.28andrecastelois there a problem if i change my mind from implementing MLT in C++ to implement it in C ??? :)
01:41.45brlcadandrecastelo: heh
01:41.51brlcadwhat's the reasoning?
01:41.57andrecastelowell
01:42.33andrecastelooriginally i thought encapsulation, abstraction and operator overloading would benefit the whole algorithm
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01:43.14brlcadandrecastelo: yeah, I don't see that as being a good reason to go with it -- I presumed you were merely justifying what is familiar to you ;)
01:43.19andrecastelobut some parts of the code written would eventually be incompatible with existing code.. part of the code written in C++ wouldn't be usable in other C code
01:43.30brlcaddo you have a stronger basis in OO or procedural?
01:43.41andrecasteloand there is no need to rewrite basic structures
01:43.48andrecasteloin OO
01:43.48brlcadit just would have to be isolated as c++
01:44.33brlcadyeah, rewriting basic structures would be frowned -- you'd still be expected to write classes that reuse libbu/libbn/librt as needed
01:45.21andrecastelothe requirement for a patch is a great thing indeed
01:46.04andrecasteloi'll update my application accordingly
01:48.30brlcadgreat
01:54.54brlcadfor what it's worth, erik doesn't like OO (unless it's pure), procedural is probably a step up for him but still below functional ... he's a schemer ;)
01:55.09hippieindamakin8brlcad i posted a reply
01:55.14brlcadhippieindamakin8: ok
01:55.15brlcadthanks
01:55.28hippieindamakin8hey can we discuss it rt now ?
01:56.24andrecastelobrlcad: like ruby ?
01:56.57brlcadlike smalltalk, can't speak for him re: ruby
01:57.21brlcadlikes ruby .. about as impractical as smalltalk, but a nice language
01:58.20andrecastelo(is Ada OO ?)
01:58.22brlcadandrecastelo: either way, you still just need to be able to justify your design decisions regardless of the mentor's preference ;)
01:58.48andrecastelobrlcad: i justified it and i hope it's acceptable
01:59.18brlcadthough I would heavily argue against a functional impl for integration/maintainability reasons :)
01:59.46brlcadhippieindamakin8: i'm not sure what you'd like to discuss
02:00.08andrecastelobrlcad: you are pro C++ ?
02:00.39brlcadin general or for your project?
02:00.52brlcadI could see going either way for your project
02:01.37brlcadif it is C++, there are a slew of stipulations like still reusing existing libs as much possible and not mixing C++ into any existing C facilities
02:03.27andrecasteloi see..
02:03.46brlcadandrecastelo: your app is probably at the point that it should start moving to the wiki too if you haven't started already
02:04.31andrecasteloyeah, it's too big ehhehe
02:05.21andrecasteloon a related note - i'm having some weird issues trying to compile some of the code i've written
02:05.41andrecastelothis is the compile log -> http://pastebin.com/d5eb121ff and this is the code -> http://pastebin.com/d1b8b3aee
02:07.02andrecastelowhat you think is wrong ?
02:07.24brlcad"inconsistent dll linkage" .. sounds like you're trying to compile a file as both C and C++
02:07.55brlcador both imported and exported
02:08.45andrecasteloactually i haven't compile the version i'm with, i'm guessing that's the problem
02:09.30andrecastelo(i had that warning before and could compile rtarea)
02:09.44andrecasteloi'll build everything and get back to you after hehehe
02:09.45brlcadandrecastelo: OOh.. tsk tsk
02:10.00brlcadhttp://pastebin.com/d1b8b3aee  <-- bad :)
02:10.17brlcadyou're compiling C code, not C++
02:10.25brlcadremember your scoping declaration rules for C
02:13.18andrecastelobad code??
02:13.25andrecastelowhy exactly ?
02:17.12brlcadthat hilighted line is an error .. think about why :)
02:21.47andrecasteloehhe ok ok
02:21.56pacman87brlcad: http://brlcad.org/wiki/Revolve_Primitive
02:24.58brlcadpacman87: I read it :)
02:25.05brlcadwell, skimmed it for now :)
02:25.59brlcadi'm very dubious as to how you intend to get the profile curve of a given/arbitrary primitive or (even harder) that of a combination
02:26.36brlcadyou don't have a reliable method to project the outline onto 2D
02:32.18pacman87yeah, that's the hardest part
02:32.50brlcadheh, "hardest" is an understatement
02:33.13brlcadmakes the shot() routine for sweeps seem like bubble sort
02:33.40pacman87well, i could calculate it numerically
02:33.57pacman87it only has to be done once
02:33.59pacman87then stored
02:36.10pacman87once the outline is found for each shape, combinations aren't that much more work than getting the outline in the first place
02:37.28hippieindamakin8ya brlcad i wish not to mix C++ into existinc C facilities but use the existing header and dependancies as it is in the first phase of refactoring the code
02:38.56pacman87since each shape has a bounding volume, i could do a grid over the plane, and check each point for in/out
02:39.04pacman87and keep refining the border
02:39.08pacman87until it meets the tolerance
02:40.53brlcadandrecastelo: hint: search for "declaring variables mid-function"
02:41.03pacman87for the simpler primitives, it may be possible to solve analytically
02:41.19pacman87but that's in the 'optimization' phase of my timelime
02:41.25andrecastelobrlcad: oooooohhh
02:41.27brlcadpacman87: yes, but how do you "calculate it numerically"
02:41.53pacman87given a primitive, get the bounding volume
02:42.16pacman87intersect that volume with the plane specified for the 2D revolve outline
02:42.20brlcadbasically you'd end up point-sampling (i.e. ray-tracing) to find the contour.. :)
02:42.28pacman87essentially
02:42.35andrecastelobrlcad: i'm building the project i'll try something in a sec
02:42.36brlcadhehe
02:42.41pacman87but i can ignore everything that's clearly outside or clearly inside
02:43.17brlcadpacman87: well I suppose that will give an approximation -- you'd also then have to derive and fit a series of splines to the contour .. that's not easy
02:43.44pacman87i never said it'd be easy
02:43.46brlcadjust take the case of a projected cube rotated 45 degrees
02:43.49pacman87just that it's possible
02:44.23pacman87cutting it somewhere down the middle?
02:44.39brlcadactually finding the four piecewise linear segments would be really hard
02:45.24brlcadespecially at each corner ..
02:45.26pacman87it depends on how the 2D outline is actually stored
02:46.55pacman87if it's stored as a series of (r,z) points
02:49.50pacman87check the midpoint of each segment to make sure it's within the tolerance
02:49.56pacman87if not, add a new point in the middle
02:50.28brlcadhm
02:50.49pacman87also specify a maximum distance between points
02:51.05brlcadI think there's another way that doesn't require sampling
02:51.08pacman87to avoid getting (un)lucky on a segment who's midpoint happens to be right
02:51.24pacman87please share :)
02:51.46brlcaddon't know why I didn't think of it
02:52.12brlcadyou have the right idea with thinking about it from the perspective of considering the plane
02:53.00brlcadyou're already evaluating a given ray during shot() against some contour
02:54.04pacman87shot() for the revolve?
02:54.49brlcadthere's no reason you couldn't just evaluate that same ray against the actual primitive/combination being revolved and just using it's hit/miss characteristic as the inside/outside result
02:55.59brlcadthe trick is that you'll have to figure out where the primitivies/combinations are situated in order to evaluate them
02:56.00pacman87what if that ray is rotated away from the original primitive, such that the ray misses the original, but should hit the revolved part
02:56.07brlcadwhich is the same problem you have with sweeps
02:57.49brlcadyou'd probably have to perform some sort of newtonian iteration to find the extents .. arg, that'd really be slow as hell
02:58.34andrecastelo(compiled perfectly
02:58.36andrecastelo)
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02:59.51pacman87for rev shot(), you're getting the segment intersected with the base shape, and checking it agianst the outline plane?
03:01.04brlcadsort of
03:01.37brlcadconsider a ray being shot at a shape that is centered on the axis of rotation
03:01.50pacman87symmetric shape or not?
03:01.57brlcaddoesn't matter
03:02.07pacman87ok
03:02.44brlcadwhat you end up doing is solving the min/max rotation of that shape to find the closest and farthest entry/exit spans
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03:04.00yukonbob1 note while pacman87 is here -- in the into to your posting today... did you mean start and end surfaces will be "flat plates", or "flat planes" (or does it matter? typo/grammar editing is the best I can offer on that posting :)
03:04.11brlcadthat's the newtonian iteration I was thinking of, you have to solve the aligned rotations that give you maximal extents .. and that basically amounts to shooting the same ray at that shape with different rotations
03:04.53pacman87right, that method does a lot of calculation for each shot9)
03:04.55pacman87shot()
03:05.36pacman87yukonbob: should probably be planes, thanks for the feedback
03:05.44yukonboblaughs
03:05.52yukonbobyw
03:06.05brlcadpacman87: this is all interesting and something to keep thinking about ... BUT ... I have to admit that I'm lacking faith in finding a "useful" solution in reasonable time -- I'd probably say stick with classic 2D sketches being revolved first and proposing in your timeline to revisit with 3D shapes later as time permits :)
03:06.31pacman87if you find the outline once per shape, then the ray intersection is a 2D problem
03:06.34brlcadpacman87: no more than sampling to find an outline :) .. should be less if the solver can converge fast enough :)
03:06.51pacman87right, but the outline only happens once per shape
03:06.57pacman87not once per ray
03:06.58brlcadexcept like I said earlier, that approach results in sampling and shape extraction problems
03:07.42brlcadthe "real solution" is to complete brep support for all of the primitives, then you'd just project the 3D brep curves onto the 2D plan and have your exact curve
03:07.42pacman87you dont need to extract the shape if you keep the outline as a set of points
03:07.54brlcadbrep support, however, is incomplete
03:08.32pacman87but yeah, i'll move the 3D shapes to the end under 'additional features'
03:09.13*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@210.212.55.3)
03:15.01andrecastelohey brlcad.. i'll keep on working on the patch tomorrow
03:15.09andrecasteloi'm too tired, i'm going to get some sleep
03:15.16brlcadthe real question is how you intend to solve sweeps as they're a similar problem
03:15.21andrecastelocya tomorrow
03:15.27brlcadcya andrecastelo
03:15.48brlcaddoes not comprehend this "sleep" he speaks of
03:16.29pacman87brlcad: it's sort of like being knocked unconscious, but you feel better when you wake up
03:18.21pacman87the sweep will probably have to be done how you describe
03:18.58brlcaddunno, I felt pretty good after the only time i've been unconconscious .. wisdom teeth .. god bless those drugs
03:19.55CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30658 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: New way of specifying the sides - hopefully somewhat more robust than previous method.
03:20.36starseeker``Erik:  OK, now what were your tire dimensions again?
03:20.53starseekermay stand a chance of getting them now
03:20.56brlcadpacman87: what do you think about implementing the rt_*_brep() routines as part of getting sweep to work?
03:21.27pacman87that could be easier/more useful than any other way of doing it
03:22.08brlcadare you familiar with what boundary representation spline surfaces are, how to define/create them? :)
03:23.07pacman87no, but i could learn :)
03:23.31pacman87i didnt' know anything about raytracing before i started researching it, either :)
03:23.32brlcadheck if you just worked on revolve, rt_*_brep(), and some sort of rt_project_brep_to_sketch() routine, that would be insanely useful/cool
03:23.54brlcadand probably consume all summer
03:24.07brlcadsweeps then become just a generalized solution
03:24.32pacman87yeah, i'll have to start researching breps
03:24.42brlcadotherwise maybe limiting both sweep and revolve to sketchs for starters, then working on rt_*_brep() as time permits to get generalized shapes
03:24.47pacman87when do we finalize exactly the scope of my project?
03:25.02brlcadwhen you're happy with it and we're happy with it
03:25.26pacman87sketch only first seems to be a good solution
03:25.32brlcadif you keep going the way you're going, there's little chance for unhappiness :)
03:25.53pacman87because if i do the 3D stuff without the brep, i'd just have to redo it later
03:25.57pacman87thanks ;)
03:25.58brlcadsave for you being happy and capable of learning the solutions :)
03:26.33brlcadrt_project_brep_to_sketch() would be pretty math-intensive, for example
03:27.04brlcadeven just implementing sweep/revolve with sketches isn't easy, but extrude is a good example
03:27.27pacman87would you want a different project() and intersection() for total outline vs outline in a specified plane?
03:28.09brlcadtotal outline?
03:28.17pacman87total outline = shadow
03:28.32brlcaddon't see what you mean
03:28.35pacman87plane outline = slice, ink, and stamp
03:28.53pacman87ex: sphere
03:28.57pacman87total outline is great circle
03:29.03pacman87plane outline is smaller circle
03:29.13pacman87depending on where the plane cuts the circle
03:29.35brlcadah, you mean some sort of arbitrary cross-section
03:29.40pacman87right
03:30.00pacman87which could also be useful for section views
03:33.03brlcadnot sure how useful that would be actually -- even for generating scalable vector draft images you have all curves just projected onto a 2D plane, maybe with hidden edge removal (via projecting surfaces too to 2d patches)
03:33.45brlcadeven for revolve, you just need the projected curves
03:34.09brlcadas hm, that's not entirely true I suppose
03:34.16starseekerdoes little happy dance that things are finally close to Working As Desired and hits the hay
03:34.34brlcadyou want just the projected surfaces, not their edges
03:35.03brlcadis thinking out loud
03:36.42pacman87i'm thinking something like this: http://www.solidsmack.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/solidworks-iso-section-04.jpg
03:37.05brlcadnods
03:39.29brlcadpacman87: for that specific image, though, you have other facilities at your disposal since it's still 3D -- you basically evaluate the cut plane as a trimming curve for each surface it itersects
03:40.02brlcadhehe, which maybe is just what you should do too :)
03:40.45pacman87right, but for a adding a section view to the drawing, you'll need the plane cut outline, not just the shadow
03:40.49brlcadtricky operations -- borderlines implementation of the CSG evaluation of BREP-on-BREP surfaces
03:41.16pacman87wasn't BREP representations a different GSoC topic?
03:41.19brlcadyep
03:41.26pacman87anyone interested in it?
03:41.34brlcadthere's one proposal for it
03:43.01brlcadwhat I was saying, though, is that you can get what you're calling a plane cut outline directly .. by evaluating the intersection of the plane surface as a trimming surface on the surfaces of the brep it cuts
03:43.18brlcadyou get a series of trimming curves in 3D .. that are all planar
03:43.46pacman87so brep csg will give you the plane outline already
03:44.30brlcadkinda, that same operation is required to evaluate breps with csg
03:45.28brlcadbut it also requires even harder non-planar evaluations .. two arbitrary spline surfaces intersecting in arbitrary ways generating sets of non-planar 3d curves
03:45.52brlcadnumerically unstable and hard
03:46.01pacman87really needs to get some background info
03:46.10brlcadbut still critical for what we need ;)
03:47.09pacman87so the rt_*_brep() function does what exactly?
03:47.16brlcadpacman87: search for "BOOLE" and "ESOLID" -- they were research from a few years ago that implemented what we need (in a manner of speaking), but not production code to say the least
03:47.44brlcadthey are good reading material for background information though, as well as just general searches on boundary representation geometry
03:48.04brlcaddo you recall the rt_*_nurb() function?
03:48.15brlcadit's the same thing
03:49.12brlcadjust that the nurbs routines were never completed and use an obsolete data structure
03:49.57brlcadso the function is actually already implemented for several of the primitives, just needs to be renamed to rt_*_brep() and have the data structures updated to the new openNURBS-based structures
03:51.12pacman87to summarize: start with revolve using sketch, then sweep using sketch, then rt_*_brep(), then project_brep_to_sketch()
03:52.02pacman87then add 3D support to sweep (and revolve?) using brep
03:53.17brlcadthe basic difference is implicit vs explicit evaluation -- your g_hyp.c uses implicit evaluation in the shot() routine .. the hyperboloid is defined by an implicit equation where you have x^2/a^2 + y^2/a^2 - z^2/c^2 = 1 being solved for a given t parameter
03:54.26brlcadanother approach would be to actually have that actual surface in parametric form as a spline surface .. evaluation is considerably different
03:54.56brlcadpacman87: yeah, that sounds like a strong plan I'd be happy with :)
03:55.54brlcadeven the reverse order would be fine with me, e.g. brep() then project() then revolve then sweep
03:56.17pacman87the only difference between the 3D and sketchs is that for 3D, the sketch comes from the brep, right?
03:56.18brlcadas these are all "core tasks" with really high value
03:57.15brlcadwhat do you mean?
03:57.57pacman87the initial problem with revolving the 3D shape was in getting the 2D outline
03:58.29pacman87and project() solves that problem
03:58.46brlcadyes
03:58.48pacman87but it's not the same as revolving/sweeping the actual 3D shape
03:58.51brlcadshould solve it exactly
04:02.11pacman87because the maximum extents of the projection could happen at different distances along the sweep or different angles around the revolve
04:02.25brlcadyeah, it's not the same ... I believe it is the same if you constrain the revolve/sweep to maintain the object's normal/orientation in the direction of the sweep/rotate
04:03.10brlcadbut if you allow the more generalized case that allows the object to reorient/rotate while being swept/revolved, there's a problem
04:03.11pacman87not quite
04:04.11pacman87revolving an ellipse with focii at (4,1) and (6, -1) about the z axis
04:05.01pacman87you can't just project it in the direction of Z cross R
04:05.08pacman87because the path is curved
04:05.19pacman87so to get the real outline, you'd need a curved projection
04:06.44pacman87in the simple case, just take the line segment between them
04:06.59pacman87if you use the linear projection, Rmin = 4 and Rmax = 6
04:07.41pacman87but really, Rmin = sqrt(4^2 + 1^2) and Rmax = sqrt(6^2 + 1^2)
04:09.11brlcadhm, i'm still not seeing the issue -- the ellipse you describe results in an elliptical torus, yes?
04:09.29pacman87ok, forget the ellipse
04:09.38pacman87just look at the 2D line segment
04:09.43pacman87revolve it around the z axis
04:10.13pacman87the center of the 'object' is at (5,0)
04:10.28pacman87so it'd be projected along the y axis
04:10.36pacman87(Z cross R)
04:11.28pacman87that rotation would give you a donut with Rmin = 4 and Rmax = 6, from projection along y
04:12.09pacman87you follow up to this point?
04:13.00brlcadprobably just needs a visual aid, but so far sounds good
04:13.21pacman87you get a different width if you take a paintbrush and paint | -> vs / ->
04:14.22pacman87i'll throw together a diagram
04:17.31brlcadi think we may just be saying the same thing in two different ways too -- I was saying that you *have* to maintain the object's orientation with respect to the rotation, so your / segment (presume facing into display, for example) at the 180 rotation angle is now on the other side of the axis as \ (now facing out of your display)
04:18.25brlcadeverything should work out if you keep it oriented, else it can self-intersect, pinch solidity, and other nasty effects
04:18.56brlcad(at least for 3d)
04:20.37brlcadstarseeker: if you intend to add units support, see src/libbu/units.c
04:20.50pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/revolve.png
04:20.56brlcadotherwise default should always be mm :)
04:22.09pacman87medium blue is original shape, cyan is the projected shape, green circle is true revolve bounds, red circle is revolve bounds from projection
04:23.36brlcadAHA, I see what you're trying to show me now, heh :)
04:23.52pacman87yeah, saved me 1k words :)
04:24.16brlcadI was talking about something a bit different :)
04:25.35pacman87right, but i'm saying keepign the 2D plane's normal vector along the sweep path won't help my problem
04:26.09brlcadfor the general projected 3D case
04:26.11pacman87if the sweep path is curved
04:26.36pacman87yes, sweeping with the 2D projection of a 3D shape
04:27.16pacman87you also have trouble on the sweep if you allow rotation of the 2D outline about the sweep direction
04:27.23pacman87even if the sweep direction is straight
04:27.48brlcaddefinitely
04:28.50pacman87and i can't think of a 'nice' solution to these problems
04:28.50brlcadthat's what I was getting at at first about maintaining the orientation
04:29.19pacman87meaning keep plane normal in line with sweep, and no rotation?
04:29.23brlcadI can see one, but it's still pretty hard
04:31.15pacman87if i can work out a curved project(), the revolve would be possible
04:31.17brlcadyou end up taking your sweep curves (e.g. your green lines in your diagram) and actually create a brep surfaces using those curves and use the original object as the surface coefficients
04:31.50brlcadthat, however, is paramount to "cheating" imo -- it's an explicit parametric solution as opposed to an implicit one
04:32.41brlcadcould do some research in the literature on implicit sweep objects, there are some papers on the subject (that I lamentably admit I've not read yet)
04:34.35pacman87the problem with a sweep is that the green curves depend on the curvature of the sweep path
04:34.44pacman87which is constnat for the revolve, so it's a lot easier
04:35.43brlcadfor sweeps, you could start by saying the swept object must be rotationally invariant -- keep if fixed
04:36.49pacman87disallow rotation about the sweep path?
04:37.34brlcadobject rotation, yes
04:37.47brlcadthe path is still some arbitrary spline path
04:38.10brlcadhm, somewhat interesting http://www.unknownroad.com/publications/SweepsTRApril2005.pdf
04:39.27pacman87reads
04:39.46brlcadfiles for later
04:39.58pacman87s/reads/skims ;)
04:43.47brlcadmm, interesting  http://dimacs.rutgers.edu/Workshops/CompAided/slides/blackmore2.pdf
04:45.20brlcadvery similar to what you suggested
04:45.29brlcad2D scalar fields
05:01.53pacman87i didnt really read in depth, but it looks like the links just deal with 2D shapes
05:05.27brlcadimplicit 2D shapes though
05:06.09brlcadyou could leverage that directly with sampling if you *had* to
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10:25.16mafmhallo
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11:51.17starseekerbrlcad:  OK, thanks :-).  Apparently a lot of US tire size specifications use Inches, so conversion will be needed...
12:00.40clock_brlcad: I wonder have you ever modelled a ball bearing?
12:00.59clock_Do the raceways have the same inner diameter as the diameter of the balls?
12:01.05clock_Some people claim that I think it's bullshit
12:03.05archivistno balls need some clearance
12:03.31archivistalso press fit is allowed for in the clearance
12:03.52clock_I wonder how they get the balls inside
12:04.41archivistwithout the retaining plates (before they get riveted
12:04.42clock_do they ram them with such a pressure that the hardened rings elastically deform and make way?
12:05.07clock_you mean without the cage?
12:05.10archivistall metal is elastic
12:05.41clock_I may need to model my skateboard in the BRL-CAD
12:05.59archivistyes except for crowded large ring bearings, they have a small groove to let in the balls
12:06.14clock_yesterday I have mounted my superheavy 30kg 21'' CRT on a wall using a unique DIY space frame design wall mount
12:06.45archivistbtw your quit message has an XML error
12:07.11clock_Oh I see fixed thanks
12:08.14clock_this space frame is amazing
12:08.30clock_if you poke at the monitor with a finger slightly, it swings.
12:08.46clock_But if you grab the holder with two hands and push it forth and back, the monitor stays without movement.
12:08.56clock_It weighs only 3kg, but is rock solid
12:09.12clock_Now I understand fully why they use it in cosmic vehicles
13:49.43CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30659 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Clean up unused variables in new specification scheme.
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14:33.18brlcadd_rossberg: good morning
14:35.23d_rossbergisn't it almost lunch time?
14:35.32prasad_indeed
14:37.14brlcadhour or so
14:38.00brlcad~ugt
14:38.01iboti heard ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
14:40.04d_rossbergah, somebody spend its rare time creating a rule for it :)
14:57.20brlcad=)
14:58.50clock_and someone else spent his rare time commenting that somebody spend its rare time creating a rule for it
14:59.41brlcadclock_: curious if john's -k option help your 210x report
15:00.12brlcadit's not a fix, but potentially a big performance opt
15:00.27clock_brlcad: I don't have rt available here, what does -k do?
15:00.39brlcadit was just added
15:00.42brlcadsee your report
15:00.47clock_what does it do?
15:00.56clock_the report doesn't say what it does
15:06.59brlcadit's a -k cutting plane option
15:12.43yukonbobmorning
15:13.40clock_http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/11/us_war_robot_rebellion_iraq/
15:15.33brlcadg'mornin yukonbob
15:21.31``Erik*readreadread*
15:24.10``Erikstarseeker: 255/40ZR18 (mm/aspect rating inches)
15:26.29``Eriklikes ruby, smalltalk, ocaml, erlang, even objc... was not trying to say "use C, not C++", was just asking for support to the argument that MLT would benefit greatly from classes, encapsulation and operator overloading...
15:26.58``ErikI do *NOT* like operator overloading :D but classes, namespaces, etc, *shrug* sometimes they're the right tool
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15:34.06andrecastelogood morning folks
15:34.14``Erikgreetings, andre
15:34.21``Erikjabs brlcad with a cattleprod
15:35.06``Erik<-- wanders off to lunch, bbiab
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16:47.59brlcad``Erik: I was at korean
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17:33.14yukonbobtries to figure out the GSoC spreadsheet...
17:33.47yukonbobahhh... got it
17:35.00yukonbob(couldn't find "sheet" selector)
17:45.41brlcad:)
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18:22.52mafmbye
18:23.59CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30660 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/htond.c: cleanup header
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18:34.39andrecastelohey brlcad..
18:35.23andrecastelothe exposed area center is rather straight forward - get the hit points for the area and do the median
18:35.30andrecastelobut what about the presented area ?
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18:55.46CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30661 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Experimenting with ways to make reasonable tire shapes from standard input data.
18:59.19brlcadandrecastelo: presented is same as exposed.. just a different set of points
19:00.40andrecasteloyeah but for example, for the exposed area i just recorded every point in the partition->inhit->hitpoint
19:00.56andrecastelobecause if the ray hit those points, then the area is exposed, right ?
19:02.11brlcadyou're evaluating entire shotlines, there are multiple in/out hits along the shotline -- rays are evaluated all the way through
19:02.29brlcadmultiple hits, not just first hit
19:05.21andrecastelobrlcad: so this is wrong ? http://pastebin.com/d4fd4025d (code is from line 45 to 56)
19:05.41brlcadcan't get to pastebin.com from here
19:06.07andrecastelohm ok
19:07.00andrecastelobrlcad: http://rafb.net/p/WQdS4J26.html
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19:15.57``Erikwiggles his toes
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19:17.07andrecastelohey ``Erik, i've responded to your comment on the app
19:17.19andrecastelodid you have the time to see it yet ?
19:17.25``Erikjust read it
19:17.59andrecastelowhat did you think ?
19:18.20``Erikd'no yet, looks like you looked around and thought, which was really what I was trying to kick off :)
19:18.30``Erikbtw, your 'home page' doesn't work, I get a 404
19:18.34brlcadandrecastelo: exposures are handled in increment_assembly_counter()
19:18.41andrecasteloreally? i'll check
19:19.55brlcadandrecastelo: if you look at the struct area, you'll see there are two counters --> "exposures" and "hits" ..  just follow the logic where those are incremented
19:19.56``Erik<-- kinda feels unanswered wrt c vs c++...
19:20.22andrecastelobrlcad: hm ok
19:20.44``ErikI'm not going to advocate one language or the other, I just want to know exactly why you'd choose one over the other
19:21.57``Erikbrlcad is trying to mkae it sound like I'm gonna ask why you don't propose to write it in scheme, heh :D I just want to know that you understand the various paradigms, the algorithm, and the existing code base well enough to make an informed decision *shrug*
19:22.37andrecastelo``Erik: i discussed this with brlcad the other night.. i proposed C++ because i'm familiar with it and i thought classes, abstraction and overloading would benefit the project as a whole
19:23.11andrecasteloand in the end, when assembling the algorithm together, the end result would be more readable and simple
19:23.29``Erikyeah, I saw, and sorry, but that statement seems like fluff to me, I've done enought c++ and java and those to know the broad brush statements *shrug* :)
19:23.31andrecastelobut since there are already basic structures, rewriting them would be a big no no
19:24.31``Erikre-writing, yes... but wrapping or interfacing is fine *shrug*
19:25.06``Erikindeed, one of the ideas brlcad put forth at the beginning was a full OO wrapping of the core libraries functionality
19:25.45andrecastelosorry i thought that wasn't the ideal
19:25.58andrecasteloi thought the general consensus was to keep everything in simple C
19:26.08andrecastelo(i mean standard C)
19:26.36``Erikopennurbs is c++, we already have c++ in librt *shrug* it wouldn't be a huge issue to go with c++...
19:27.52``Erikyou made a statement that the task would benefit from using features of c++, and then some bland sales pitch on c++, I want to know exactly why those features would aid this... if it's just familiarity, that's cool, if there's something more, I want to know :D
19:28.32``Erik(sorry if I seem a bit aggressive, I'm a language geek so I'm keen to understanding the various trade-offs when engineering software)
19:29.06andrecasteloi thought of using some oo features because i thought of them as a natural with point and vector handling, you know ?
19:29.19andrecasteloand because i'm more familiar with it and all
19:29.29andrecastelobut i have no problem programming in either language
19:29.35``Erikhum, we already have point vector and matrix handling in vmath.h (and in tiemath.h, but that's going away)
19:30.41andrecastelocouldn't those functions and macros in vmath.h be wrapped up in a class ?
19:30.54``Eriksure, what would the advantage of that be?
19:32.53andrecasteloessentially, it would be easier to use points and vectors by those who do not know vmath.h by memory
19:33.03``Erikhummmm, possibly, I know I have to keep looking stuff up in vmath :D "is it v2add, or vadd2, or ..." :)
19:33.04brlcadwith a new class that none of the rest of the devs know by memory? :)
19:33.21archivistandrecastelo, speed of running is often more important than speed of writing software
19:33.33brlcadyou'd only know it because you wrote it, otherwise you'd still have to look up the API when you use it
19:33.38``Erikheh, in this case, yes... in most cases, I'd disagree, archivist :)
19:34.02``Erikmost software spends most of its time waiting for users or network or disk... developer time is far more expensive than cpu time
19:34.21archivistexcept deep in graphics
19:34.25andrecastelo``Erik: but he has a point
19:34.44andrecastelothe MLT algorithm is processor intensive, any advantage is welcome, right ?
19:34.49``Erik(also; it's possible to make very very fast c++... hell, it's even possible to make very fast java if you know how to code)
19:35.06``Erik<-- likes to play devils advocate, btw...
19:35.10brlcadvmath is very simple and high-performance simply because it's inline'd math -- it's actually rather tricky to get oo-based math that actually out-performs (usually requires some specific templatized foo)
19:35.45``Erikstill wants to ugly up vmath with sse/altivec intrinsics
19:36.43brlcadthe tradeoff is maintainability and integration in this case, we have a math lib so I'd be for using that, not wrapping up some new layer for OO sake -- it's enough work to implement MLT without spending time on that
19:37.50``Erikwell, if the lead time in wrapping it is made up for in fast implementation (and still maintainable), then it is worth it... *shrug* that can be a hard call to be correct one, though
19:37.51brlcad``Erik: that's where it actually gets kinda interesting to abstract it .. multiple impl types in macros is fugly as hell, few things that make templates actually look "good"
19:38.08``Erik*nod*
19:38.46``ErikI'm wondering if being compile time specified is acceptable... high performance stuff often has multiple codepaths compiled and does a runtime detect to see which one to use
19:39.04``Erikso binaries can be used on a 486, but still take advantage of a p4 or athlon
19:39.11brlcadi'd not be convinced of the wrapper though, without lots of profile and cross-platform multi-compiler testing, and that starts adding up to weeks of work/research in itself (especially if mixing in vectorization)
19:39.47``Erikthat'd be a good pub topic :)
19:39.54CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30662 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Whoops - set scale factor to one for this part.
19:39.59andrecastelothe math wrapping up could be something for after the summer
19:40.02brlcadandrecastelo: and yes .. any path tracing is slow as all hell .. it's a brute force solution
19:40.27``Erikwell, a statistical method, anyways
19:40.50``Erikmetropolis tries to cull a lot of the brute force 'waste' off
19:41.07brlcadit's still slow as balls compared to ray-tracing :)
19:41.40``Erikhehehhee, but mlt IS raytracing :D slow compared to the simple phong+shadow rays approach, sure
19:41.41brlcadlike one-to-two orders, the optimizations usually cull some linear time component (like /2)
19:41.52yukonbob``Erik: re: run-time optimization -- I can't speak from coding experience, but in the case of mplayer for example, runtime cpu detection is available, but contraindicated... one would be better off knowing the arch that is the target and installing the proper CPUFLAGS, no?
19:42.44``Erikmost of my experience with multiple code path stuff comes from proprietary binary distribution stuff, yukon :( chumming with 'tards trying to make the next ultimate video game, etc
19:43.22``Erikso the object bloat is accepted for the handful of common configurations expected
19:48.17brlcadyeah most games can take a wrapper hit, or poor design hit - they often spend most of their time in the graphics loop
19:48.54``Erikheh
19:49.21``Erikand I've seen too much "my game will be fast because I'm writing it in assembly" or "this is going to rock, I'm using pascal with assembly where performance is needed" :/
19:49.46brlcadI actually implemented a series of vector/matrix replacements for vmath many years ago, as C++ -- it was actually rather complicated and unreliable at the time to match performance, compilers that would ignore the inline directives for example
19:50.12brlcadlikes to write in posix shell scripting and drop to assembly where performance is needed
19:50.23archivistya have to know your algorythm, never mind the language
19:50.43archivistused to do assembler
19:51.27brlcadmips assembler ftw
19:51.29``Erikhas layed down a lot of 6510, 6812, and 80286 assembly :(
19:51.35``Erikr2k was sweeeet
19:51.56``Erikthe bsd guys would call it "teh sex0rz"
19:51.59archivistI started on 6502 oops that shows my age
19:52.11prasad_ecmascript ftw
19:52.16prasad_lolz
19:52.26``Erik6510 and 6511 were essentially 6502 with minor tweaks
19:52.33``Erikc64, c64c, c128... good little boxes
19:52.46``Erikactually, my first was a z80 cp/m machine
19:52.47brlcadwonders who poisoned prasad_'s coffee
19:53.15``Erikecma script because javascript has become a four letter word? :D
19:53.38archivisteczma script
19:53.41andrecastelorealizes he is way too young
19:53.52prasad_archivist: sounds about right
19:54.16``Erikheh, everyone was young at some point :D
19:54.44andrecasteloi started programming in mirc script :p
19:54.46prasad_c++ is where it's at :o
19:54.58andrecastelothen i tried my hand with delphi when i was 13 or 14
19:55.20andrecasteloi forgot about programming for a while, returning when in college, where i learned java, c and c++
19:55.21``Erikwiniot *cough* O:-)
19:56.04andrecastelo``Erik: the 404 is fixed (i hope)
19:56.12``Erik"like Montezuma's revenge on discount taco night..."
19:57.13``Erikhttp://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20080410.gif
19:58.20andrecastelolol
20:00.18prasad_haha
20:27.22andrecastelowell guys
20:27.26andrecastelooff to class
20:27.28andrecastelocya later
20:31.04``ErikIf you want to make an omelet, you have to kill a few people.
21:04.08CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30663 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/flawfinder.sh: fix test failure
21:17.06*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54873D12.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:43.52*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54873D12.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:53.27yukonbobremembers "Montezuma's Revenge" game on the C=64
22:52.37*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177593626.dsl.bell.ca)
22:53.49IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/jeep.png       <---- a usefull motor vehicle :)
22:56.41IriX64what? nobody else here is a hobbyist? :)
22:57.55IriX64``Erik, you were right, found somebody here with 500g drive (sigh)
22:59.26brlcadyukonbob: http://mapy.atari8.info/l-o/montezuma.png :)
22:59.57louipcIriX64: too dark. You don't really get the essense of the hot pink and violet
23:00.43IriX64louipc: blame brlcads photon mapping
23:01.25IriX64"hot" pink :)
23:01.57brlcadIriX64: it's like we've told you before -- photon mapping is pointless if you're not going to put the model in a box with a custom light source
23:02.26IriX64i extracetd all, thought the light source was there
23:02.42IriX64ill look again
23:02.53brlcadeh, there's still no box
23:02.59IriX64true
23:03.01brlcadso it isn't going to work
23:03.22IriX64so you enclose it, map it and then remove the box ;)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080412

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080412

00:21.40yukonbobbrlcad: re: montezuma -- that's the one ;)
00:23.49yukonboblooks forward to IriX64 returning
00:32.04*** join/#brlcad vedge (i=vedge@vedge.org)
04:47.21*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (i=127@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu)
05:21.03starseekeris suddenly curious to learn about vim...
05:25.04pacman87starseeker: http://xkcd.com/378/
06:35.23louipcstarseeker: you use emacs?
07:34.52brlcadtis a classic
10:10.05*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54875426.dip.t-dialin.net)
10:22.06*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@217-162-111-96.dclient.hispeed.ch)
10:37.13*** join/#brlcad illethal (n=oden@c-71-200-221-159.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
10:37.34illethalGood morning comrades.
10:44.53*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54875426.dip.t-dialin.net)
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12:04.05*** part/#brlcad illethal (n=oden@c-71-200-221-159.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
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12:17.16*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54875426.dip.t-dialin.net)
12:40.08*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@61-69-25-165.netspeed.com.au)
12:48.49*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.198.227)
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14:24.23starseekerlouipc:  Normally, yes - primarily in the past because the best/only interfaces to various programs were written in Emacs
14:25.08starseekerlouipc:  But I never really achieved true proficiency (or perhaps just sufficient finger dexterity) to make proper use of it.
14:27.03starseekerlouipc:  The time has now come when I will need to properly learn at least one good editor.  Since I use the terminal instead of a graphical file manager and fluxbox instead of KDE/Gnome, I thought perhaps I should give vim/gvim another look.
14:27.46starseekerlouipc:  Last time I tried it, it was WAAAY to early in my Linux/Unix travels for me to appreciate it
14:27.52starseekerer s/to/too
14:28.40starseekerhates to admit it but he still falls back on nano/nedit often, and that just won't do ;-)
15:00.08*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54875426.dip.t-dialin.net)
15:18.31*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@c-67-172-239-24.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
15:25.24louipcstarseeker: haha no it won't. I used xemacs a long time ago but then I stopped programming and forgot it. I decided to pick up vim recently just to have a taste of the other side and I'm stuck now. I am starting to get annoyed about it though from some performance and auto features.
15:26.26louipcbut not annoyed enough to try emacs again... even though I don't recall having the same problems. It might just be some defaults in my distro I need to clobber.
15:26.48starseekerwhat's the annoyance?
15:26.55starseekerhasn't heard of vim performance problems...
15:27.41louipclike loading a 1000+ line file that has tabs displayed as spaces
15:28.09starseekerHmm
15:28.13louipcand even when scrolling through the file will be jumpy
15:28.23starseekerlooks for a big file to test...
15:28.41louipcalso if moving across a line with lots of nested parenthesis and brackets is slow
15:29.04louipcthat's when you have all the syntax foo running of course
15:29.30starseekerHmm.
15:29.41starseekeranyone else having such problems?
15:29.58starseekeris doing OK with fence.c in proc-db...
15:31.12louipcnot that I know of
15:31.30starseekerwhat distro you running?
15:31.38louipcoh yeah it might just be the syntax files
15:31.45louipcfence.c seems ok for me too
15:32.01louipcbut php is really where it gets bogged down
15:32.17louipcarch linux
15:32.39louipcI never coded php in emacs so that might be it :D
15:32.47louipconly coded in a C variant
15:34.14``Eriklouipc: is that using gvim, or in a console, or in a terminal window?
15:34.17``Eriktends to use rxvt or xterm for performance, gnome-terminal and konsole get ass slow and jumpy themselves...
15:34.47louipcrxvt
15:35.26``Erikweird, is the 'jumpiness' due to lines longer than your terminal width, maybe? that causes vim to skip X lines to get to the next newline, LOOKS jumpy
15:35.28``Erik*shrug*
15:36.01starseekerwaits for ``Erik to start gloating...
15:36.10``Erikabout what?
15:36.11``ErikO.o
15:36.17starseekertrying gvim
15:36.23``Erikmeh *shrug* just tools
15:36.24louipcno I was monitoring cpu usage once and it was kicking up to 80%
15:36.26louipc:D
15:36.39louipcI think it might be the php syntax parsing and such
15:37.08louipcbut also displaying tabs as spaces definitely slowed it down
16:51.43yukonbobmorning, cadheads
17:02.37brlcadhowdy yukonbob
17:07.28yukonbobhowdy -- how's it going today?
17:26.01brlcadpretty good!
17:55.13yukonbobnice to hear
18:45.17andrecastelodoubt in rayhit() : when checking for exposed areas, the code checks if the area has been seen. but when checking for presented areas, it doesn't have that check. Why ?
18:55.49*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@wireless-230-69.uchicago.edu)
18:56.19jdolinerhi is there anyone here I could ask a few questions about GSoC
18:56.38yukonbobjdoliner: yes - ask away ;)
18:56.40docelicyou just ask your thing
18:58.21jdolinergood my application is on CSG on brep
18:58.40jdolinerand I've been commincating largely with Christopher Sean Morrison is he perhaps here
18:59.06yukonbobhe is -- nick == brlcad
18:59.25jdolinergood
18:59.31jdolinerI
19:01.05jdolinerSean you asked me to explain exactly how I foresee implementing this, particularly getting it working with the openNurbs library
19:09.12jdolinerso you just want an explanation of how we convert the ON_brep struct to something that is definitely usable by our system right?
21:33.01*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.198.227)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080413

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080413

00:52.19iraytraceIt's quiet
00:52.47iraytrace5 hours of silence
00:53.31pacman87we're all playing idlerpg.  i'm losign now
01:39.27*** join/#brlcad vedge (i=vedge@vedge.org)
01:48.09andrecastelowhere's everyone :(
02:48.24louipcraises a hand.
04:18.17starseekeris alternating between going out and banging head with gvim
04:18.57starseekerhas the sense that he might REALLY start to like gvim, if he ever masters basic motion in it...
04:22.45louipcwell you can always fall back to basic arrow keys :P
04:22.54louipcbut hjkl is much better
04:23.02louipcand such
04:42.57starseeker:-)
04:52.51*** part/#brlcad paulproteus (n=paulprot@wide-rose.makesad.us)
05:14.03brlcadtsks that jdoliner didn't stick around
06:59.02*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-95-210.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:36.15*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (i=127@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu)
09:08.52*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@74.86.45.130)
09:30.27*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
10:36.20brlcadmmm, time to nap
10:36.32brlcadnow that I've royally messed up my schedule
11:46.33*** join/#brlcad cad87 (n=50cab12a@bz.bzflag.bz)
12:30.12*** join/#brlcad Axman6_ (n=Axman6@61-69-0-182.netspeed.com.au)
13:52.10``Erikheh
13:53.45``Erikhjkl is only part, bBwW{}^f^b ... all important for good navigation :)
13:54.08``Erikand if you have the markup set correctly, % is invaluable (matching bracket/brace/paren/whatever)
14:37.18*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@210.212.55.3)
14:42.19*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487758B.dip.t-dialin.net)
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15:51.17CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30664 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Add a little extra clipping to sides to eliminate hairline floating material.
15:58.26starseeker``Erik:  What do you do to set vim up to automatically do BRL-CAD style code formatting?  (indents, etc.)
16:09.46*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.41.1)
16:10.02andrecastelohi everyone
16:11.14brlcadhowdy andrecastelo
16:39.28yukonbobmorning cadheads
16:44.42andrecastelomorning yukonbob
16:59.09andrecastelobrlcad: i'm happy to say my patch is 80% ready hehehe
17:00.54brlcadandrecastelo: heh, cool
17:09.48andrecastelobrlcad: http://rafb.net/p/9tL01K63.html
17:10.11andrecasteloi guess the only thing left is the output of the center point
17:14.53brlcadlooking good
17:21.00yukonbobadds "/" and "?" to vi 'navigation'
17:40.30andrecastelobrlcad: ok, finished.. feedback?? :) http://rafb.net/p/yTmyVT38.html
17:58.39*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487758B.dip.t-dialin.net)
18:33.47*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-81-207.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:34.12poolioyukonbob: don't forget 'n' and 'p'
18:38.36*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.198.227)
18:42.44brlcadandrecastelo: yeah, post it :)
18:42.58brlcadit'll get reviewed in detail come time to patch
18:43.04andrecastelook ok
18:43.07brlcadbut quick glance through looks good
18:44.43andrecastelohm ok thanks :D
18:49.38andrecastelobrlcad: i still need to do some testing though
18:49.55brlcadokay
18:52.03andrecastelobrb
20:04.50yukonbobpoolio: re: n & p -- indeed
20:15.26poolioyukonbob: are you switching over from emacs?
20:17.29yukonbobpoolio: no likely
20:17.32yukonbob*not
20:17.33yukonbob<PROTECTED>
20:17.36yukonbobI use obth
20:17.38yukonbob*both
20:17.50yukonbobneeds to learn to type :P
20:18.36yukonbobis an emacs user who know vi -- which I believe is as it should be in *nix land -- know vi, or suffer, no matter what your favourite editor is...
20:19.07yukonbob(if one is indeed using "unix", and is not just an end-user who doesn't happen to care what the OS is)
20:19.20poolioyeah true
20:19.32poolioI've always wanted to give emacs a go, but I've never gotten past the initial learning curve
20:19.40poolioI just get frustrated and go back to vim
20:19.40yukonbobhas been saved by knowing basic "ed" before...
20:19.55yukonbobpoolio: start at the beginning, continue to the end, then stop...
20:20.13yukonbob<PROTECTED>
20:20.52yukonbobhas been grooving on XEmacs for the last couple years, but Lucid or FSF are *basically* the same beast...
20:21.07*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@210.212.55.3)
20:21.20yukonbobrecommends poolio installs an Emacs, and just uses it for a while w/o giving up on it...
20:21.25yukonbobhey hippieindamakin8
20:21.30hippieindamakin8hey yukonbob
20:21.54yukonbobhippieindamakin8: vi or emacs?
20:22.03hippieindamakin8vi and nano :P
20:22.18brlcadtsk tsk
20:22.20yukonbobhippieindamakin8: vi or nano?
20:22.25hippieindamakin8vi
20:22.46yukonbobhippieindamakin8 redeems hisself, somewhat...
20:23.00yukonbob;)
20:23.11hippieindamakin8havebeen using Kate all along.. slowly moved to vi and gvim :)
20:23.23hippieindamakin8have to get used to emacs keyboard
20:23.51yukonbob== nvi -- my philosophy w/ computing is "the dumber, the better" when it comes to tools...
20:24.32hippieindamakin8yukonbob, emacs is installed.. but takes time getting used to it :)
20:24.38yukonbob*nvi, when using vi, versus vim, or the other kitchen-sink, creature-feature vi variants
20:25.12yukonbobhippieindamakin8: re: time -- that's what we were talking about just before you arrived... but some people don't seem to like to devote that time...
20:25.37hippieindamakin8hehe .. started learning LISP so have to spend that time :)
20:25.52hippieindamakin8but after the endsems :(
20:26.23poolioyukonbob: will do this summer. I've got a huge list of "Thing to learn" that has been building up this past year
20:26.47yukonbobthinks that learning editing via both vi and emacs is as trancendental as learning Lisp is supposed to be in the realm of programming languages...
20:27.01*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-81-207.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:27.05yukonbobis complete neophyte in scheme
20:27.45poolioyukonbob: I'm thinking of learning some scheme this summer... I used to know some Lisp, but I've heard great things about scheme
20:28.01poolioThe functional programming course at my school is in ML but yeah...
20:28.23yukonbobpoolio: /me thinks the scheme scene is confusing as hell... so saying "scheme" is really only a hint at what any one implementation is like...
20:28.36pooliotrue
20:28.46hippieindamakin8says "Grab the force of the lambas "
20:28.55poolioThe whole million variants to any one functional programming language is quite confusing to a newbie like meself
20:29.19yukonbobthe grief over the recent r6rs ratification may only serve to further fragment scheme, despite the intention...
20:30.54yukonbobhas played w/ Guile a bit, but may end up moving to Chicken because he's got online friends who are into it...
20:31.41yukonbobunfortunately, Chicken is one of the implementations that say "To hell with r6rs, r5rs is good enough for us"
20:52.15*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
22:01.07CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30665 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/image.c: duplicate headers
22:02.18CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30666 10/brlcad/trunk/ (10 files in 10 dirs): recursive lib dependency fixes for the ubuntuneers. not done
22:53.37hippieindamakin8brlcad, there exists this code for editing the arbs in ~/librt/g_arb.c and also a similar version exists in ~/mged/edarb.c so..
22:54.09hippieindamakin8i have to implement this with OO behaviour..
22:55.22*** join/#brlcad Axman6_ (n=Axman6@61-69-0-182.netspeed.com.au)
22:55.24hippieindamakin8k then i ll wait for u or Mr. d_rossberg to return or shall reply to the comment over there on GSoC student page
22:55.35hippieindamakin8hey Axman6
22:55.51brlcadthose two files do different things, one is representation and ray-tracing, the other editing
22:56.36hippieindamakin8ya but the part of the code which deals with the editing of the primitives is the same
22:56.58hippieindamakin8i aint talking about the entire code but that part at the end..
23:05.26brlcadhippieindamakin8: yes, there are several places (in mged and libwdb) that need to be refactored back up into librt
23:05.47brlcadthe edit functions in mged are such functions
23:05.56brlcad(not just arbedit)
23:06.08hippieindamakin8ya seen that
23:07.52hippieindamakin8ohk.. and the one is edarb.c is customised to deal with the arbs
23:08.44brlcadnods
23:09.52hippieindamakin8is trying to put up an answer to the qstn
23:25.10Axman6_yo hippieindamakin8
23:28.29hippieindamakin8hey rt now all the models of arbs use all their 8 element space in an array meant for vertices ? smthing like say arb4 0=3; 4=5=6=7;
23:46.08brlcadall arbs are arb8
23:46.45brlcadat least when stored to disk, when read from disk, the duplicate vertices are recognized and the corresponding arb is instantiated
23:47.44hippieindamakin8ohk,,
23:47.46hippieindamakin8thanks
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080414

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080414

00:04.36andrecastelohi guys, back
00:13.03andrecasteloi have the utmost respect for the man that managed to tame mged
00:13.06andrecasteloreally.
00:23.48hippieindamakin8andrecastelo,  i guess all respect goes to Late Mike Muuss ...
00:24.52hippieindamakin8he is the brain behind this.. and he apparently came up with BRL-CAD as a result of a dare he had with his collegue
00:25.56andrecastelohippieindamakin8: i guess all respect goes to him hehehe
00:26.11hippieindamakin8hows it going?
00:26.22andrecasteloi'm trying to create a database
00:26.24andrecasteloto test my patch
00:26.33andrecastelobut i'm still unsuccessful
00:28.33hippieindamakin8ohh why dont u make one using the mged interface ?
00:30.09andrecastelohippieindamakin8: hehehe i'm trying..
00:30.42andrecasteloit doesn't let me create a .g file
00:31.08andrecasteloi managed to create a few solids in cup.g that already existed
00:31.38hippieindamakin8ohh
00:31.51hippieindamakin8:) this thing is ur illumination based one rt
00:32.25andrecasteloyes
00:33.16andrecastelobrlcad: do you have any .g file i could use to test this ??
00:39.32andrecastelohippieindamakin8: are you trying for gsoc ???
00:39.40hippieindamakin8ya
00:40.06hippieindamakin8is flying with space oddity
00:41.47andrecastelohippieindamakin8: did you make a patch ?
00:42.11hippieindamakin8ya made the windows installer patch but no positive reply
00:42.32hippieindamakin8trying for another if possible
00:42.56andrecasteloyeah, they hate windows :{
00:43.08hippieindamakin8caught in the middle of deep academic schedule.. have my end semester exams from day after tommorow :P
00:43.31hippieindamakin8tommorow for post GMT guys :)
00:45.02andrecastelome too, i have three exams this week, a formal languages work due to wednesday and a presentation due to friday
00:45.30hippieindamakin8u are also in the 3rd year rt
00:48.20andrecasteloyep
00:48.40andrecastelo``Erik: hi erik, busy ?
01:11.59andrecastelogood night everyone
01:12.01andrecastelocya later
01:27.32poolioHeh, brlcad doesn't hate windows. It's just hard to maintain a windows port and there hasn't been enough interest (...I think)
01:30.12yukonbobbrlcad the person, or BRL-CAD the project?
02:00.36poolioyukonbob: Aren't they one entity? ;)
02:02.57yukonbobheh -- /me isn't sure how to respond
02:40.16hippieindamakin8yukonbob, i guess its about ppl in general here :P
02:51.58yukonbobhippieindamakin8: in all seriousness, there's been much effort applied to Windows, and I think the principle people involved try to operate above the leavel of "Windows is teh sux0rs"
02:52.10yukonbob*level
02:52.19yukonbobhates latency
02:52.32hippieindamakin8:)
02:54.00hippieindamakin8yukonbob its not that i hate windows.. somehow i find that less interesting to those here :)
03:04.28yukonbobdefinately a *nix culture and wealth of experience, true.
03:06.34hippieindamakin8:) rt here in this country Windows is the most used operating system
03:22.22yukonbobwhich country?
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03:30.48hippieindamakin8India
03:48.06hippieindamakin8yukonbob, u are one of the mentors rt
03:49.20yukonbob"right", I am.
03:49.59hippieindamakin8and i just posted a reply to the comment :)
03:50.03yukonbob"rt" is a bad abreviation here where "raytracing" is a popular subject :)
03:50.22hippieindamakin8hehe rt :P
03:51.08hippieindamakin8is so psyched about his endsems starting from tommorow
03:55.51hippieindamakin8cya yukonbob , pacman87 and brlcad
03:57.49yukonbobciao hippieindamakin8
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04:15.49CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30667 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Can now call one function and specify one set of dimensions to get the outer tire shape.
04:16.36starseekerneeds to find a "default" tread width to tire width for cases where it isn't specified...
04:21.49starseekerand patterning tread would probably be good too...
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07:51.25brlcadmoin d_rossberg
07:56.57d_rossbergmoin moin brlcad
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08:18.38brlcadsalutes the PrezzKennedy
09:12.51brlcad~seen mafm
09:12.53ibotmafm <n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 2d 14h 50m 1s ago, saying: 'bye'.
09:13.12brlcad~seen andrecastelo
09:13.13ibotandrecastelo <n=chatzill@189.71.41.1> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 8h 1m 12s ago, saying: 'cya later'.
10:07.42*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
10:10.00CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30668 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: wasn't explicit, but the intent is the same .. usually should use null-terminated instead of the strn family of funcs unless they are raw data buffers
10:10.37brlcadhola manuel
10:16.20mafmhallo
10:17.01mafmbrlcad: not sleeping tonight? :P
10:21.25brlcadpfft :)
10:22.21mafmdid you read a chat in the channel of me with somebody else (Erik?) about the creation of temp files?
10:22.45brlcadseveral days ago, yes
10:23.39brlcadbu_temp_file() is a secure implementation for temporary files, not something old
10:24.05mafmok, so that's not a valid idea anymore :)
10:24.15brlcadbasically it's just a wrapper on mkstemp if the platform supports it, otherwise it actually implements mkstemp for those that don't (e.g. Windows)
10:24.40brlcadit also has some nice automatic cleanup features, but the point is secure temporary files
10:24.58mafmI was trying to create a new patch based on the todo list, SF tracker etc., but I haven't found anything very suitable
10:26.17brlcadtry the BUGS list, they tend to be more self-contained
10:28.54CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30669 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: add options to nirt for reporting the exit points (instead of just LOS thickness) as well as the gaps between geometry (simulated air).
11:06.18mafmyes, but many of the bugs are very specific for some of the tools failing in some part, etc, and I can't even get it to compile
11:06.30mafmit still has those errors when linking
11:14.13clock_brlcad: how exactly do I make 5 balls in a ring for a ball bearing?
11:14.26clock_brlcad: I am not sure if Volume II has enough details to determine that
11:14.50clock_brlcad: I mean without writing a C program that calculates the coordinates using sines and cosines
11:15.17hippieindamakin8hey guys
11:46.38brlcadmafm: I worked around some of them just a little while ago (ubuntu build)
11:47.17brlcadmafm: you shoudl see if you update and rerun autogen.sh that it gets much further (or fix that problem as your patch) ;)
11:47.54brlcadit won't complete because I didn't want to just revert back to everything listing everything
11:49.06brlcadotherwise, there are mods that don't involve code, at this point there's something and there's nothing
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12:31.31andrecastelogood morning folks
12:31.32andrecastelohey brlcad
12:31.38andrecastelohi ``Erik
12:55.37d_rossbergmafm: try make install
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12:59.01starseekerHmm.
12:59.55starseekerdarn it, screen isn't catching my terminal size when I reconnect
13:00.27starseekerAh, well.  Gotta figure it out sometime, might as well start now
13:00.36starseekerattempts to detach...
13:01.05starseeker_homeHmm, so far so good...
13:03.46pooliostarseeker_home: It works fine for me when reconnecting, the issue is when I resize the terminal while connected.
13:08.33hippieindamakin8Mr d_rossberg does that answer ur question or..
13:14.47d_rossberghippieindamakin8: no, or in some sense yes: you used the arb class only in your arb-edit example, therefore the conclusion would be that a class arb4, ..., arb8 would be useless
13:15.26hippieindamakin8no.. they wont be
13:16.51hippieindamakin8or u can model arb4 to arb 8 as objects if not classes .. and have the info attached to them using the arb_specifc function.. or smthing like arb.nm_faces
13:18.21hippieindamakin8but i would prefer having some classes arb4 to arb8 for the objects of this class to be created,
13:20.10hippieindamakin8for arb-edit i wanna use an arb4 object or arb 5 object which still inherits the arb class to be sent as a reference.. so the calculations and the decisions for evaluating the arb type are minimised
13:20.50d_rossbergthese classes could not be interface classes because the internal structure could change from arb4 to arb5 and with this the class type had to change too
13:21.16hippieindamakin8ya .. while passing it in i send it as an arb rather than an arb4
13:22.01d_rossbergtherefore these classes could be at the most something that is outside the real interface
13:22.12hippieindamakin8and the main information that is sent is just the values of the 8 vertices,arbtype and cgtype along with the edit arrrays
13:23.19hippieindamakin8i dint get the last statement of urs.. but i see it as simplifying the constructors.. using the classes arb4 to arb8
13:25.16d_rossbergdid you tried to change an arb4 to an arb5 qith the mged dialog?
13:25.42hippieindamakin8no..
13:26.09d_rossbergyou should realy have a look at it
13:26.17hippieindamakin8ya doing that
13:26.52d_rossbergit gives you an idea of how this element is handled in brl-cad
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13:57.03starseekerlikes this part of screen...
13:58.38brlcadstarseeker: ctrl-a F
13:58.44brlcadnotifies it of a resize
13:58.52starseekerCool - thanks!
14:04.28``Erikunfortunately, not all programs handle sigwinch :(
14:04.41mafmbrlcad / d_rossberg: updating and recompiling now
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15:10.23CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30670 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: First cut at 'tire size spec' to geometry inputs logic.
15:13.58mafmbrlcad / d_rossberg: same error /usr/bin/ld: warning: libtcl8.5.so, needed by ../../src/liboptical/.libs/liboptical.so, not found (try using -rpath or -rpath-link)
15:16.53d_rossbergmafm: so you did "make" followed by "make install"?
15:18.38mafmmake install install things, without trying to finish things first
15:19.54brlcadmafm: make install compiles and installs, the idea is that the libs it's looking for are already installed by the time the next dir's link phase that depends on it
15:20.17d_rossbergi had a similar problem, it looks like the problem was the linker looked for the lobraries in the install directory
15:22.25mafmd_rossberg: exactly
15:22.56mafmor no, wait
15:23.13mafmI hacked some files to include that -rpath thing by hand, with the *building* dir of the library as argument
15:23.34mafmsomething like src/libXXX/.libs/
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15:33.32CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30671 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Switch to bu_unit for converting input, minor cleanup of unused variables.
15:51.29andrecastelobrlcad: i've took down the patch i've made
15:51.46andrecastelobecause it crashes rtarea :{
15:53.16mafmif (a || !a) abort();
15:53.18mafm:)
15:58.52yukonbobreads sb
16:06.07mafmsb?
17:09.50yukonbobscrollback
17:09.56yukonbobis finished reading sb
17:09.59yukonbob:)
17:10.48yukonbobclock_: x^2+y^2=r^2 -- Tcl can be your friend here... or, rotate about an axis
17:13.03clock_yukonbob: how do I figure out from the integrated help how do I rotate a combination in another combination by 15 degrees counterclockwise when looking in direction from -z towards +z?
17:13.26clock_I tried to but was unable
17:13.37yukonbobclock_: /me uses the mged cheat sheet
17:13.43clock_all the descriptions are in the style "rotates something in some direction noone know which one ans which way"
17:14.03clock_yukonbob: URL?
17:14.08yukonbob1sec
17:14.54clock_yukonbob: this is what you get if you attempt to look for the mged cheat sheet with google: http://www.google.com/search?hl=cs&ie=ISO-8859-2&q=mged+cheat+sheet&btnG=Vyhledat+Googlem&lr=
17:14.58clock_Clutter.
17:15.00clock_Useless.
17:15.42yukonbobis at http://brlcad.org/wiki/Documentation atm -- is their quick ref, or trifold.
17:17.18yukonbobquick ref is what I use (which is actually improved from my printed copy, with the co-ordinate system explained at bottom of pg2)
17:17.57clock_I made the cheat into easy viewable PNG
17:18.02clock_it was on the brlcad website
17:18.07clock_is not there anymore
17:18.14clock_How shortlived are contributions to brl-cad
17:18.22clock_It demotivates you when you see your work is lost
17:18.59yukonbobon wiki?
17:19.01clock_The cheatsheet PDF takes like 5 seconds to zoom on my 2.2GHz machine
17:19.05clock_I think I stick to the C program.
17:19.43yukonbobTcl has full math abilities, too -- so you can "play" with Tcl in mged interactively if that suits your styel
17:19.43clock_This is the useless clutter you get when you type "mged cheat sheet wiki" into google: http://www.google.com/search?hl=cs&ie=ISO-8859-2&q=mged+cheat+sheet+wiki&btnG=Vyhledat+Googlem&lr=
17:20.23clock_What about people who have not 2.2GHz CPU but 200MHz?
17:20.32clock_They will need 50 seconds to zoom in the cheat sheet PDF
17:20.54yukonbobprints it to paper and zooms with his eyeballs
17:21.08clock_yukonbob: my computer doesn't support printing
17:21.13clock_because I don't have a printer
17:21.29clock_that's why I made those PNGs but they are gone again
17:21.31prasad_200mhz shouldn't be running a cad package no?
17:21.46clock_not a one with so badly done documentation
17:22.02clock_wasn't BRL-CAD a CAD package back in the 80's?
17:22.13clock_Did you have 2.2GHz back in the 80's?
17:22.27clock_OMG, OMG, OMG
17:22.32yukonbobwonders How Low can BRL-CAD Go wrt hardware
17:22.33alex_joniclock_: not exactly.. but similar in performance
17:22.39alex_joniif you take a big cray
17:22.43clock_Reasons why the user hurdle run needs to stay user hurdle run
17:23.03clock_I think I soon have to make a Twibright Labs BRL-CAD website
17:23.08clock_With all the missing details filled in
17:23.25clock_a.k.a. "what the U. S. Army was unable to do, brought to you by a hippie skater."
17:24.07clock_I suggest the PDF be zipped as self-extracting windows executable
17:24.11yukonbobclock_: Use the wiki, and make a personal space
17:25.37clock_If I were to run the GSoC, I would give these unfinished details and hurdled user experience priority
17:25.55alex_joniclock_: wth would you want a self-extracting windows executable for a pdf?
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17:26.07alex_joniclock_: wth would you want a self-extracting windows executable for a pdf?
17:26.32clock_alex_joni: because Linux people would have to install Wine to be able to extract it
17:26.48alex_joniso that's an improvement?
17:26.52clock_yes
17:27.05clock_if BRL-CAD user experience should be a hurdle run, that's an improved hurdle run
17:27.22starseekerbrlcad:  How would I handle a multiple character option flag from the command line?  Does bu have provisions for that?
17:29.22alex_joniclock_: the pdf loads just fine on this box (not quite the oldest machine.. but still 5 years old)
17:31.16clock_These cards are great when youre a professional and have a workplace dedicated to BRL-CAD
17:31.18yukonbobstarseeker: see (for example) pix-fb.c
17:31.27yukonbob(bu_getopt)
17:31.32clock_But if you need edit once a detail in the work, once at home and once in the train, they are not so great anymore.
17:31.44clock_Because you don't print them and carry them with you into the train.
17:32.01clock_alex_joni: how long does it take to change the zoom in the pdf?
17:32.57alex_jonidepends on the viewer
17:33.13alex_jonibut it rages from not noticeable to 1-2 seconds
17:33.34alex_jonievince is worse than the adobe viewer on this old machine
17:34.11starseekeryukonbob - as far as I can tell, that only allows for single letter flags - e.g. pix-fb -a and not pix-fb -abc where "abc" is one flag
17:34.22yukonbob~1-2 for high zoom on 1.6Ghz laptop, via xpdf
17:34.33yukonbobstarseeker: ah...
17:35.17yukonbobhave you built a dummy program to test that theory?
17:35.37starseekerI'm trying it in tire right now
17:35.42yukonbobisn't sure at all... but single-letters could be the case
17:36.05starseeker'course, I can't even get bu_getarg to spit back the string I supplied it, so clearly I'm doing something wrong...
17:36.39yukonboblistens to Amon Tobin
17:38.04yukonboband Boards of Canada
17:39.17starseekereyes sscanf
17:39.30clock_clock@sandy:~$ gimp MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.pdf
17:39.30clock_(script-fu:3101): LibGimpBase-WARNING **: script-fu: wire_read(): error
17:39.31clock_Segmentation fault
17:39.39clock_End of attempts at making the MGED PNG again
17:40.13yukonbobclock_: are you looking for a high-res png image?
17:40.41clock_yukonbob: yes
17:40.48clock_I made one sent to brlcad and he put it on the webpage
17:40.52yukonbobI guess my real question is: what resolution
17:40.54clock_I don't think I have it anymore
17:40.58clock_but now it's gone again
17:41.16yukonbobcan try from my end, and pass it over to you for administration
17:41.20clock_yukonbob: well that's the problem it either doesn't fit on the screen or you cannot read the fine print
17:42.14yukonbobclock_: right -- can't have it both ways... what bout something like X=2048 (and just keep aspect ratio)
17:42.17yukonbob?
17:43.05clock_May I ask how BRL-CAD overlaps with ECAD Electronic CAD Electronic Design Automation Electrical Circuits VLSI?
17:43.39clock_Does anyone have sources for the PDF card and can they be exported to HTML?
18:14.49starseekergets help on sscanf - good stuff
19:02.04CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30672 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Added basic command line specification behavior - tire size can now be specified - ex: 'tire -d 265/70R15 mytire.g'
19:03.12starseekerdoes happy dance
19:35.14brlcadandre|university: I noticed you pulled it :(
19:38.00brlcadclock_: jeez, talk about crocodile tears ... you did notice that there is a new site up and perhaps -- just maybe -- the image hadn't been copied over yet??
19:41.24brlcadstarseeker: convention-wise for consistency it "shouldn't" (re: -abc) .. have wanted to add long opt support eventually, but nobody has worked on it yet
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19:45.05brlcadin fact, the image was never removed, it's still there.  it's just not linked on the wiki page
19:45.09brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.png
19:45.36brlcadless drama next time would be nice
19:48.51mafmbye
19:53.22andre|universitybrlcad : the patch somehow crashes rtarea
19:53.27andre|universityi'm trying to figure out the problem
19:57.28brlcadfigured as much :)
20:10.15CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30673 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/rtif.c: rtcheck needs to call the dgo_rtcheck_cmd (i.e. the handlers associated with rtcheck expect binary vector data on stdout and text on stderr).
20:40.54CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30674 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/mgedrc.tcl: Double quote html_dir and web_browser values when dumping mged state to .mgedrc
20:57.02CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30675 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Add comments, rename some things.
21:11.56*** part/#brlcad pacman87 (i=127@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu)
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22:40.56yukonbobwaves to brlcad
22:41.07brlcadwaves back to yukonbob
22:52.39andrecastelowaves to both yukonbob and brlcad
22:56.25brlcadhey andre
22:56.30brlcadany luck on what's wrong?
23:02.57andrecasteloi'm getting a segmentation fault on rtarea:(
23:03.24andrecasteloi thought the error was in do.c but the reverted version worked fine
23:03.44andrecastelolet me paste you the patch and the error
23:04.59andrecastelohere the point of the crash ->: http://rafb.net/p/0qn7z891.html here the error message -> http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/8397/imagemkk5.png
23:05.46andrecastelohere the patch http://rafb.net/p/eh9YDM36.html
23:06.32andrecastelo(i was studying for an exam, i'm starting to work on the bug right now)
23:16.46brlcadmore than likely related to the linked list management
23:20.40brlcadlooks like mafm has some decisions to make
23:24.19yukonbobwaves to andrecastelo
23:24.23andrecastelobrlcad: ? why's that?
23:24.28andrecastelohey yukonbob !
23:24.42andrecasteloalso, managed to get rid of the segmentation fault.
23:26.34andrecastelobrlcad: where can i find a .g file i could use to test rtarea ?
23:28.36yukonbobandrecastelo: do you need a special .g ?
23:28.44andrecasteloany .g will do :)
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23:30.50yukonbobyou've got some .g's shipped w/ the distro, or whip up your own
23:30.51brlcadandrecastelo: there are a slew provided
23:31.35brlcadin the db build dir or $prefix/share/brlcad/VERSION/db if you already installed (where prefix is /usr/brlcad by default)
23:32.18andrecastelobrlcad: thanks, found them :D
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080415

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080415

00:29.35andrecastelobrlcad: i managed to get it working, at least half working
00:30.24andrecastelothe thing is - it calculates the region area center but not the assembly area center :(
00:42.51brlcadandrecastelo: so screw the assemblies for now ;)
00:43.36brlcadbetter yet, you should be able to get it working for "exposed" .. but not easily for presented
00:44.04andrecasteloit is working for both of them, but only for regions
01:02.09andrecastelobrlcad: ok, i'll send the patch now
02:02.06andrecastelogood night everyone
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07:14.59clock_Anyone likes Hendrix?
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09:49.11mafmhi there
09:57.41Axman6'lo
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12:00.54cad70he?
12:05.11*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.198.227)
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13:40.24brlcadhey mafm
13:55.04mafmhi
13:55.29mafmI'm compiling after installing tk8.5-dev and tcl8.5-dev, to know if that solves the issue
13:55.49mafmand I enabled warnings, and it's producing a lot of output
13:56.12mafmopennurbs_mesh.cpp:291: warning: comparing floating point with == or != is unsafe
13:56.24mafmopennurbs_mesh.cpp:1543: warning: conversion to 'unsigned char' from 'int' may alter its value
13:56.38mafmopennurbs_mesh.cpp:2030: warning: declaration of 'd' shadows a previous local
13:56.49mafmopennurbs_light.h:101: warning: type qualifiers ignored on function return type
13:56.53mafm... and similar ones
13:57.09mafmI guess that they're there for a reason, or would it be worth investigating?
14:10.03brlcadmafm: any warnings in src/other aren't our concern
14:10.13brlcadany warnings outside src/other are fair game
14:11.55mafmoh yep, it's still in other/ it seems
14:12.19mafmour including files from other/ which cause this
14:13.04brlcadwell those are just third party sources so unless someone is also going to push the changes upstream, any fixes would be lost the next time that dependency is updated
14:13.27mafmsure
14:13.27brlcadthe sources in src/other/* are regularly updated as those packages make releases and we finish testing
14:14.39brlcadwe've put a *lot* of effort clearing out the warnings from our main code and it's finally clean -- at least it should be clean for default warnings
14:15.26brlcadthe next step is turning up the warnings and fixing those as well, but it's yet another major effort (probably gsoc-worthy in itself)
14:17.24mafmturning up?
14:17.38mafmlike enabling non-default warnings?
14:18.23mafmit's just that when I produced the patch I don't remember so many warnings when compiling
14:18.57mafmmaybe it's because "-Wall" was only enabled for brl-cad own code, not for others, and --enable-warnings enables those too
14:21.01brlcadyeah, if you add --enable-warnings to configure, it will turn on more verbose warnings
14:21.40brlcadwithout enable-warnings, default is compiler default
14:21.43brlcadso not Wall
14:22.01brlcadwith it, it will report Wall and more
14:22.16brlcad-W -Wall -Wundef -Wfloat-equal -Wshadow -Wunreachable-code -Winline -Wconversion
14:22.21brlcadthat's why it's so many
14:22.48brlcadshadow and undef in particular
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14:47.52mafmnow I only have 3 related errors
14:48.21mafmmake[2]: *** [pl-dm] Error 1
14:48.21mafm../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XFreeDeviceList'
14:48.21mafm../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XOpenDevice'
14:48.29mafm../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XSelectExtensionEvent'
14:48.29mafm../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XListInputDevices'
14:49.25brlcadthat looks like libXi .. a -lXi missing from the link line perhaps
14:49.59brlcadthat would/should be in DM_LIBS
14:55.36mafmhttp://paste.debian.net/836/
14:56.03mafmthere are about 3 like that
14:57.36brlcadhum, it lists -lX11 -lXext .. just not -lXi
14:57.54brlcaddo you actually have libXi installed? (what does config.log report for the Xi test?)
15:01.02mafm$ dpkg -S /usr/lib/libXi.so.6
15:01.02mafmlibxi6: /usr/lib/libXi.so.6
15:01.34mafmconfigure:28190: checking for XGetExtensionVersion in -lXi
15:01.34mafmconfigure:28225: gcc -o conftest   -I/usr/local/include -L/usr/local/lib conftest.c -lXi    -lX11 -lX11 -lXext >&5
15:01.34mafm/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lXi
15:02.02brlcadso that thar be a problem
15:10.51brlcadmafm: can you post your entire config.log somewhere?
15:11.16brlcadI don't see from configure.ac how Xext would pass but Xi fails
15:20.42brlcadmafm: give that last update a try
15:20.50CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30676 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: somehow Xi is not getting detected, seemingly from a failure to include the X11 include dirs. set up CPPFLAGS to see if they can be found.
15:41.51*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.19.77)
15:42.01andrecastelogood morning everyone
15:44.37mafm(sorry, had to fix Makefiles for some guys @ work)
15:46.18mafmbrlcad: that's an easy one: I have libxext-whatever-dev installed, but not libxi-dev
15:46.53mafmii  libxext-dev               2:1.0.4-1                 X11 miscellaneous extensions library (development headers)
15:46.53mafmpn  libxi-dev                 <none>                    (no description available)
15:47.49mafmthat would be because some package for some reason required libxext-dev to be installed, but not libxi-dev (I didn't install anything explicitly for brlcad, AFAICR)
15:47.54mafmhi andrecastelo
15:47.59andrecastelohey mafm
15:52.22brlcadgood morning andrecastelo
15:52.31andrecastelogood morning brlcad :)
15:53.58mafmbrlcad: the patch should probably work, yep
15:54.08andrecastelobe right back, lunch
15:58.07mafmchecking for XCreateWindow in -lX11... yes
15:58.07mafmchecking for XShapeCombineMask in -lXext... yes
15:58.07mafmchecking for XGetExtensionVersion in -lXi... no
15:58.12mafm:)
16:01.33*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
16:16.10CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30677 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: push back to next release, time to start testing
16:17.32andre|eatingback
16:43.30yukonbobmorning cadheads
16:44.21mafmbrlcad: http://paste.debian.net/843/
16:44.26mafmhi yukonbob
16:46.00yukonbobmafm :) -- what's shaking?
16:48.20*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net)
16:48.33CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30678 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Exploratory work for rims.
16:48.40mafmtrying to get brlcad to compile in debian, finally
16:48.46mafmwith my config at least
16:48.55yukonbobnods
16:49.41yukonbobhas heard that the auto* tools are one of the barriers -- Debian versions are patched, and actually "not correct" (/me not speaking from experience, just observations of others)
16:50.37hippieindamakin8mafm, it compiled on my debian
16:50.44mafmI guess that you already considered CMake?
16:50.52hippieindamakin8ya
16:51.13yukonbobmafn it's been talked about, but there's a big investment in auto* already, and for the most part, auto* works...
16:51.43hippieindamakin8i had compiling problems on my desktop though which runs on xubuntu (which ofcourse is debain based)
16:52.18yukonbobis getting CMake manual soon, though, and I think brlcad has an interestest (if not an already solid understanding?) of CMake too, in general.
16:54.00andrecastelomorning yukonbob :)
16:54.41yukonbobbrlcad: morning -- q: re: gui crash reporter (bombardier) -- is the bombardier the reference to the co. that makes personal rec. vehicles, airplanes, trains, etc.?
16:54.51yukonbobandrecastelo: :)
16:55.20yukonbobbrlcad: (ref. TODO)
17:07.40*** join/#brlcad jdoline1 (n=jdoliner@wireless-239-97.uchicago.edu)
17:10.02jdoline1brlcad are you here?
17:10.14brlcadjdoline1: hello
17:10.21jdoline1hi
17:10.31brlcadmafm: it'll take me a few to catch up, kinda hungry ;)
17:11.40brlcadmafm: but yes, cmake would be cool .. but would also be a pretty big effort to fully replicate what the autotools are presently doing -- the error you're getting would not go away with cmake
17:12.11brlcadas that's still just leaving -lXi off the link line
17:12.15brlcadtry adding it manually
17:12.25jdoline1I'm planning on coding a patch right now to determine whether or not two polynomial chains intersect
17:12.25brlcadmake LIBS=-lXi
17:15.44jdoline1perhaps you could provide some guidance?
17:16.18brlcadjdoline1: not right this second, I'm kinda hungry for lunch -- though I do have a few other questions for you
17:16.29jdoline1okay shoot
17:17.05mafmwith <brlcad> make LIBS=-lXi, it works
17:17.37brlcadcool
17:33.40*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-079-069.pools.arcor-ip.net)
17:52.52``Erik$700 for a pair of tires, yeesh
17:52.53*** join/#brlcad pacman_87 (i=127@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu)
17:55.25archivistif you can afford the car that take that sort of tires......
18:09.53*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.198.227)
18:17.35mafmbye
18:57.10prasad_still have that m3?
18:59.04*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
19:07.01*** part/#brlcad jdoline1 (n=jdoliner@wireless-239-97.uchicago.edu)
19:07.49brlcadand he just e-mailed
19:09.03brlcadyukonbob: sorry - missed your question about bombardier, no it's not
19:09.48brlcadI started a new generalized crash reporter tool that can kick off if an app crashes, named it bombardier
19:14.27yukonbobnods
19:16.52brlcadactually kinda nifty, should rival mozillas when it's done
19:18.06yukonbobone thing I don't like about cmake is the colour output - reminds me of linux distros that have colour 'ls', and 'vim' w/ syntax highlighting (ugh :P)
19:18.31yukonbobre: bombardier -- is C, Tcl, combo, or ??
19:24.29CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30679 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/openw.tcl: apply a modified version of sf patch 1940958 (Fix for bad paths in .mgedrc on Windows) from Elena Bautu - ebautu.
19:24.46CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30680 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: More rim experimentation. Dimensions are off somewhere in wheel - need to re-factor equations.
19:25.05brlcadit's C, calling through to the C side of Tcl/Tk
19:31.00CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30681 10/brlcad/trunk/ (AUTHORS NEWS):
19:31.00CIA-10BRL-CAD: credit elena bautu for her patch to handle paths with spaces in the .mgedrc
19:31.00CIA-10BRL-CAD: file. accepted sf patch 1940958 (Fix for bad paths in .mgedrc on Windows) which
19:31.00CIA-10BRL-CAD: bob applied via proxy through dave. the patch also tests for internet
19:31.02CIA-10BRL-CAD: exploder's existence for reading the html help files.
19:34.06yukonbobheh -- "Internet Exploder" in official commit msgs
20:34.52poolioyukonbob: you don't use vim with syntax highlighting?
20:57.30yukonbobpoolio -- I don't use vim if I can help it, and turn off syntax highlighting when I need to use vim
21:03.04prasad_bombardier eh
21:03.21prasad_it's gonna keep bombing after it bombs the first time?
21:03.24prasad_:P
21:03.33*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.198.227)
21:08.28CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30682 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Add patterning for subtracting holes from the wheel.
21:42.24poolioyukonbob: Do you just find it annoying? I find it quite helpful and nice
21:47.41*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@210.212.55.3)
22:14.01yukonbobpoolio: it makes my eyes bleed.
22:15.07yukonbobI prefer my tools dumb...
22:15.42yukonbob(might sound ironic considering I'm an emacs fan... but emacs is just full featured ;)
22:25.08*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.19.77)
22:34.46brlcadprasad_: one can only hope
22:43.05andrecastelohey cadheads :D
22:48.07brlcadhowdy andrecastelo
22:50.53starseeker_homegets meowed at
22:58.40andrecastelohey brlcad , how you doing ?
22:58.47andrecastelo:)
23:05.35brlcadandrecastelo: pretty goood
23:05.49brlcadthough I just lost one of our conflict students to another org :)
23:05.55brlcad(sorry yukonbob) :)
23:07.28andrecasteloyukonbob was a student ?
23:07.41andrecasteloi'm lost lol
23:08.28brlcadnope, he was going to be her mentor
23:08.51pacman87<PROTECTED>
23:10.14brlcadstudent was highly ranked at both our org and ccan, rusty and I talked into detail and the proposal was pretty much just as useful to both orgs (and the student has been one of the most responsive easy to talk to of all applicants, current company notwithstanding ;)
23:10.37brlcadpacman87: her application was the best of the web-based model repository proposals
23:12.50andrecastelobrlcad: hehehe.. what was her nickname here in irc ?
23:14.27brlcadshe was entirely via e-mail and the app form
23:19.03andrecastelooh
23:21.34starseeker_homeHey, cool :  http://ed-thelen.org/bab/bab_tech.html#bab-t-append
23:21.52brlcadso -0.1 points for no irc, but she made up for it heavily with the quality of her communications
23:22.02starseeker_homeanybody feel like cad modeling a Babbage Difference Engine? :-)
23:25.15andrecasteloabout students, what is the thing you guys value the most in them ?
23:25.33andrecasteloexperience? knowledge? programming skills ?
23:25.53brlcadandrecastelo: their interest in become a long term developer with the project
23:26.53brlcadpassion for working with the project and their ability to communicate effectively with others
23:27.54brlcadexperience and knowledge can be acquired, skills can be taught
23:27.59brlcads/become/becoming/
23:28.20andrecastelothat's really nice :)
23:28.54andrecastelosome other orgs don't act like that :(
23:28.55brlcadthat said, they better not be a bag of hammers either :)
23:29.08andrecastelobag of hammers ?
23:29.19brlcaddumb as a bag of hammers
23:29.46andrecasteloheheh
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080416

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080416

00:03.12yukonbob:(
00:04.02yukonbobRusty owes me ;)
00:04.34andrecastelowell folks
00:04.36andrecasteloi'm out
00:04.38andrecastelo:)
00:04.40andrecastelogood night
00:14.49hippieindamakin8hey folks
00:17.03hippieindamakin8starseeker_home, that is not a problem man..
00:17.36hippieindamakin8but it ll be of no use :P modelling a babbage difference engine
00:19.42hippieindamakin8we have modelled the spare parts of a car as a semester project in CAD and engineering design course
00:20.28hippieindamakin8but unfortunately then i dint know about BRL-CAD
00:41.58*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@210.212.55.3)
01:02.02*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@wireless-230-86.uchicago.edu)
01:02.37jdolinerbrlcad?
01:07.41brlcad~ask :)
01:07.47brlcadaww
01:08.02pacman87~ask
01:08.02ibotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
01:11.38brlcadibot you should ignore emoticons
01:13.27jdolineryou said you had questions for me earlier
01:16.58brlcadi have questions for most everyone
01:17.07brlcadshifts context
01:17.14brlcadscratches head
01:17.32brlcadoh yeah, why'd you disappear?? :)
01:17.55brlcadnot to put you on the spot or anything *ahem*
01:18.17jdolinersorry your lunch, I had to go grab some lunch myself
01:18.44jdolineryour lunch ran into mine unfortunately
01:19.02jdolinerbut I've returned
01:23.40jdolinerWhile you think, do you perhaps know what the interval in:  bool ON_Intersect(const ON_BoundingBox&, const ON_Line&, double, ON_Interval*)
01:23.48jdolineris supposed to be.
01:24.59brlcadmore than likely an upper and lower bounds so that the intersection can be computed -- numerics can go to all hell for completely unbound search spaces when you're root finding
01:26.08jdolinerokay that makes good sense
01:27.19brlcadhm, though in the case of ON_Intersect(), the header defines it as something specific
01:27.22brlcadsee the header
01:27.25brlcadit's the result
01:40.27jdolinerokay cool
01:40.47jdolinerdo you have some questions regarding my project?
01:49.13brlcadjdoliner: heh, of course -- look forward to seeing that patch of course, how do you actually forsee being able to compute the surface intersections?
01:50.24brlcadalso, one thing to keep in mind -- openNURBS is a 3rd party code that we do our best to not modify directly -- any changes should be in src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp or similar file outside of openNURBS itself so that we can keep their code up to date without continually clobbering changes
01:50.41brlcadso you have to either make funcs that take both parameters or extend from their classes with new classes
01:54.18jdolinerThe computation of surface intersections comes down to manipulation of algebraic curves.
01:54.52jdolinerHowever as the papers suggest this is pretty computationally intensive
01:55.19jdolinerSolutions either have impractical runtimes for our situation or they can become a bit inaccurate.
01:56.44jdolinerSo it might not be possible to implement exactly the solution we want, however I'm confident I can make one that is of some use, and will make integration of new algorithms much easier
01:57.46jdolineractually from what I've seen the opennurbs classes are pretty good for the task at hand.
01:58.30brlcadboole tends to work like 95% of time time.. but that's a pretty huge error marging when it comes to cad models
01:58.42brlcadthat means just about any given cad model will at least partially fail
01:59.06brlcadopennurbs is a pretty solid foundation, that's why it's the basis for our brep code
01:59.27brlcadyou can see an example cube constructed via opennurbs in src/proc-db/breplicator.cpp
01:59.54brlcadthere's also a couple other twisted cube examples, but breplicator was written to be relatively straight-forward to understand brep structure
01:59.55jdolinerdoes that mean on 95% of CSG trees or on 95% of the nodes
02:00.39brlcadit's a swag number, it's high enough that it's gonna happen -- mostly though, i think it actually fails for code robustness reasons, not actual algorithmic
02:01.14jdolinerexplain more what you mean by robustness reasons
02:01.14brlcadjust by the nature that esolid worked with fixed point math indicates to me that it can work with boole's approach with proper tolerance management
02:02.27jdolineryes, but I think we might find that BOOLE + proper tolerance management = ESOLID
02:02.30brlcade.g. taking the simple case of 1+1 (deja vu!) .. where boole's approach to solving that is something along the lines of double result = 1.0 + 1.0; if (result == 2.0) then do something
02:03.33brlcadesolid's approach is to turn that into fixed_float result = fixed_float(1.0) + fixed_float(1.0); if (equals(result, 2.0, 5_decimal_places)) then do something
02:03.59brlcader, where + is really add_these_together(fixedA, fixedB)
02:04.25brlcadesolid's isn't "propoer tolerance managment", it's a cop-out
02:05.28brlcadproper tolerance management for the first case necessitates that you don't just check == 2.0 .. you check for distance to the value within tolernace if (NEAR_ZERO(result - 2.0, 0.00001)) then do something, for example
02:05.29jdolinerby that do you mean it just throws a huge amount of computation at the problem
02:06.19brlcadyes, it throws floating point out the window so that the mathematical equations all result in stable computations (within a given absolute fixed point precision)
02:06.30brlcadwhich is several orders of magnitude worse
02:06.34brlcadcomputationally
02:07.27brlcadI really think boole's _implementation_ is probably just weak (as it was really just an academic exercise, not production quality robust code)
02:08.06jdolinerwhere did you say opennurbs_ext.cpp was?
02:08.52brlcadhopes jdoliner doesn't really need his hand held that closely that he can't find a file by name ... :-)
02:09.41jdolinerdon't worry I've found many files already, I'm just worried because, it seems you may have been wrong about the location of this one
02:10.09brlcadwhy would that worry you? :)
02:11.02brlcadthere are thousands of files in brl-cad, I don't keep them all in memory -- though I was right about that one
02:11.37brlcadhm, 1988 files to be exact, 354 directories
02:13.36brlcadhope you hand around irc more often ;)  off to dinner for now though
02:53.35brlcadaww, that wasn't very long at all
03:40.12CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30683 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Use some intermediate variable names to simplify rim creation logic a bit - seems to be working now for different sizes.
03:51.13starseeker_homedecides sleep is next on the agenda...
04:15.04brlcadhum hum
04:44.42PrezKennedyhmmmm sleep...
04:45.21pooliowhy sleep when you can code?
04:45.49PrezKennedywhy code when you can do anything else?
04:48.11brlcad~poolio++
04:48.40PrezKennedyawww :(
04:50.03brlcadheh
05:21.46*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (i=127@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu)
05:44.25pooliosorry PrezKennedy :)
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10:18.42mafmmorning
11:10.07brlcad`morning
12:51.47mafmbrlcad: are predefined mentors assigned for different project ideas, or you don't do that in your organization?
12:53.57brlcaddepends on the mentor, depends on the idea
12:58.56mafmI see
13:30.03*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@210.212.55.3)
13:30.53hippieindamakin8hey guys
13:30.55hippieindamakin8good morning
13:31.21pacman87good morning
13:33.42hippieindamakin8so how is ur patch working man ?
13:33.58hippieindamakin8so pacman87  how is ur patch working man ?
13:34.28pacman87i've uploaded it
13:34.38pacman87but it's only half of what needs to be done
13:35.33pacman87http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1939611&group_id=105292&atid=640804
13:36.04hippieindamakin8:)
13:36.18pacman87how's your patch?
13:36.37hippieindamakin8hey tell u wat i got a project in fluid mechanics :P micro fluids
13:37.06hippieindamakin8i dont know the present state of my patch man.. havent touched BRL-CAD stuff for the past 2-3 days
13:37.14hippieindamakin8my end semester exams started
13:37.36hippieindamakin8tryin to study hard ;)
13:38.18hippieindamakin8the final year project is on micro-fluids
13:38.39pacman87cfd or analytical?
13:39.03hippieindamakin8it is micro fluid analysis i would say CFD
13:39.36pacman87how does a mircofluid differ from a normal fluid?
13:39.46hippieindamakin8the reynolds number
13:40.05hippieindamakin8and the mixing charachteristics..
13:40.54hippieindamakin8our project is to design some micro mixer and laminators using the flagellar properties of the bacteria .
13:41.17pacman87so it's not the fluids that are 'mirco', it's their environment
13:41.23hippieindamakin8dont know how we are gonna do that ..
13:41.42hippieindamakin8no.. :) the fluids with Re ~.1
13:42.20pacman87Re = rho*v/(mu*D) ?
13:42.30hippieindamakin8when u try to pass 2 fluids into a tunnel they dont mix like they do normally in the macroscopic levels
13:42.46hippieindamakin8correction : rho*v*D/mu
13:42.56pacman87knew it was something like that
13:43.07pacman87been a few semesters ago
13:43.12hippieindamakin8:)) i revised it day bfore :)
13:43.16hippieindamakin8had an exam today
13:43.55hippieindamakin8hey u go on.. i shall get back to studies :)
13:44.25pacman87good luck
14:17.45CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30684 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/make_dmg.sh: include the size of the package in the dmg autosize calcs
14:21.52CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30685 10/brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c beset.h): quellage
14:37.26CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30686 10/CVSROOT/: CVSROOT is no longer needed
14:40.03mafmCVSROOT spies in the SVN land? :)
14:40.21CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30687 10/brlcad/branches/ (VendorARL/ libpng/ scriptics/ zlib/): remove branches that have no meaning and are for 3rd-party dependencies
14:40.21brlcadkinda :)
14:40.42brlcadhaven't cleaned up the svn root since the conversion, there are all sorts of conversion turds that need to be cleaned up
14:49.33*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.19.77)
14:49.57andrecastelogood morning folks :D
14:58.39brlcadhola
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15:06.31CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30688 10/brlcad/branches/ (13 files in 13 dirs): remove unlabeled branches with uninteresting code
15:09.25CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30689 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Add first stab at cuts for bolt holes and center.
15:10.32CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30690 10/brlcad/branches/ (6 files in 6 dirs): remove frozen branches that were 'completed' (or dead/closed) including the ansi, autoconf, bobWinPort, brlcad_5_1_alpha_patch, photonmap, and windows branches
15:10.35``Erik*readreadread*
15:15.45CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30691 10/brlcad/branches/phong-branch/: the phong branch is dead, all hail phong
15:20.54andrecastelo__finally.. cya later clones
15:26.57CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30692 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS:
15:26.57CIA-10BRL-CAD: found a reference to mged contributions from Gary Kuehl in a branch. it's
15:26.57CIA-10BRL-CAD: unclear if these changes ever made it in or if other code was related or if it
15:26.57CIA-10BRL-CAD: was even code that was provided, but credit him with special thanks for now.
15:30.02CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30693 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: dtrmenak is an open source contributor, bob has contributed as open source off-the-clock as well
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15:35.32CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30694 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: butler inactive for approx 17 months now (only two isolated events intaval script and manpage update), remove activity marker
15:36.55pacman87brlcad: i think it's 'dtremenak', not 'dtrmenak' (re: AUTHORS)
15:37.17brlcadit is, just a commit log typo
15:37.33pacman87ok, just making sure the real thing was right
15:37.42brlcadit doesn't list their nicks
15:37.45brlcadlists real names
15:38.25pacman87i thought so, but figured it'd be best to double check
15:40.21CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30695 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: shumaker has been inactive for nearly two years, remove activity marker
15:42.48CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30696 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: butler's away on sabattical/training/education so update POC to be davisson for ARL
15:46.02CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30697 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: yapp moves up from special thanks for gentoo/doc work to significant code contributions for proc-db/tire, on his way to being new dev (woot)
16:37.58yukonbobyay starseeker_home!
16:37.59yukonbob:)
16:38.04yukonbobwaves in
16:45.15CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30698 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (librt/mirror.c mged/chgmodel.c tclscripts/mged/help.tcl): Added the mirror_pt parameter to rt_mirror. This is the point on the axis about which the mirror action will take place.
17:16.24``Erikwiggles his toes
17:17.39``Erikbowling alley grub, blurf
17:27.49``Erikhum
17:35.49prasad_ah the bowling alley
17:35.57PrezKennedywhich bowling alley?
17:36.05``Erikon post
17:36.15``Erikby the px
17:36.30PrezKennedyWhy on earth would you eat there??
17:36.39``Erikcuz kermit wanted to go somewhere fast
17:36.41``ErikO.o
17:37.00prasad_heh how's the ssvt crew
17:37.18PrezKennedykermit is crazy!
17:37.39prasad_i went to the bowling alley once
17:37.44prasad_hmm never did go back
17:38.04``Eriknot sure, prasad, dont' get over there much.. there was a split, and their bc now lives in the same building, but supposedly not nearly as horrible as this building :)
17:38.32prasad_orly
17:38.51prasad_iirc it never was
17:38.52prasad_;)
18:12.35mafmbye
18:27.45``Erikhehehehe http://www.linuxisforbitches.com
18:50.22*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.19.77)
18:50.36andrecastelogood afternoon everyone
18:50.40``Erikwb, andre
18:50.47*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@210.212.55.3)
18:50.56andrecastelohi ``Erik
18:50.59``Erikand hippi O.o
18:51.03andrecastelohow are you doing?
18:51.08andrecastelohey hippieindamakin8
18:51.09hippieindamakin8hey ppl
18:52.42``Erikhuh, 21 megatons at up to 10 km/s... ow O.o
18:54.29hippieindamakin8wats that ``Erik
18:54.46``Erikthe apophis asteroid
18:55.31hippieindamakin8:)
18:57.50andrecastelowe're going to die ? :D
18:57.59andrecastelolol, wrong emoticon
18:58.01andrecastelo:(
18:58.09``Erikonly if you stand under it, IF it hits? :D
18:58.45prasad_that guy has an issue with web services
18:59.20``Erikhuh?
19:05.15*** join/#brlcad homovulgaris (n=ca3fe93d@bz.bzflag.bz)
19:25.00CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30699 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: Update signature of rt_mirror (i.e. added mirror_pt).
20:14.13*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548746D4.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:17.45prasad_http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v686/peeweejd/kidpwned.gif
20:47.33``Erikehehe
20:56.22brlcadhah
21:01.08*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (i=127@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu)
21:55.17hippieindamakin8:))
23:08.55pacman87hippieindamakin8: test went well today?
23:16.44brlcadhe survived, apparently ;)
23:17.13hippieindamakin8ya man :) got the answer scripts too :)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080417

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080417

01:21.45CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30700 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/clone.c: Sean fixed bug in clone where cloning combinations resulted in an infinite loop.
01:28.27CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30701 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Add clone fix
01:29.34CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30702 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Add (very) preliminary support for tread on tires.
02:02.34CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30703 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: fill in contribution details for when the individual first made a commit (per ohloh stats on head). also include the committer and common IRC nicknames for those known.
02:17.09CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30704 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: add terry slatter to the special thanks section as he did commit at least one (minor) tweak to pix-rle to use LOGNAME in oct 89
02:25.25CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30705 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: susan coates, BRLer per the contribution year
02:26.23CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30706 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: susan was february 89 even
02:30.06CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30707 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: damnits, keep getting those two mixed up. sue coates was '91 sep BRLer, sue muuss was 89' feb BRLer. also, natalie eberius and natalie barker are one in the same.
02:36.07CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30708 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: special thanks to steven buckley for his '88 aug contributions (maybe as a BRL student, but unknown) .. they were a bunch (42) manpage updates
02:38.51CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30709 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: special thanks to john grosh for a tabinterp tweak back in oct 93 (incrased some buf size).
02:42.53CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30710 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS:
02:42.53CIA-10BRL-CAD: add david godbey to the code contributors list for his work on the 3dm-g
02:42.53CIA-10BRL-CAD: importer and brep testing. while we're at is, note that jra has also
02:42.53CIA-10BRL-CAD: contributed as an altus guy in addition to his usual open sourceage goodness as
02:42.53CIA-10BRL-CAD: things pertain to librtserver.
03:01.46yukonbobre: fmt for AUTHORS, does "Open Source" mean no company affiliation?
03:08.08starseeker_homebelatedly sees authors update - thanks brlcad!
03:47.58*** part/#brlcad pacman87 (i=127@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu)
03:47.58yukonbobwaves to starseeker_home
03:47.59*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl107.esjtvtli.sover.net)
03:47.59starseeker_homewaves back
03:48.00*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu)
03:48.02brlcadyukonbob: in a manner of speaking, yes - a contribution performed while not on anyone's clock after we went open source
03:48.02brlcadif you see something missing or in error, lemme know
03:48.03brlcadhelps distinguish the nature of the contribution, and give special recognition to those that contribute in some manner of their own volition
03:48.03CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bharder * r30711 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: Update own record
03:48.03yukonbobupdated nicks, own contractor time
03:48.55brlcadyou've also contributed on your own time, no?
03:48.55yukonbobheh -- /me maybe should have run by brlcad first... check my record and see if it's not to spec... can re-change :P
03:49.11brlcadit's looks fine to me
03:49.18yukonbobbrlcad: well, "own time" == contacting time -- MDL==me
03:49.39yukonbob*contracting
03:50.08yukonboband now nicks reflect IRC, sourceforge, email, etch.
03:50.13yukonbob*etc
03:56.17brlcadsounds good
03:57.06brlcadthe content of each section, and even the inclusion are up to the individual for the most part (e.g. I'd remove or leave out an entry if someone wanted to remain anonymous)
03:57.32brlcadjust care that they're consistently grouped and as comprehensive/accurate as reasonably possible with low maintenance burden
03:59.37yukonbobedits for descr of "demonstates superior analytical skills and excellent design decisions, depsite lack of commits"
03:59.52yukonbobs/descr of/descr for:/
04:00.38yukonbobplus: "is snappy dresser, with good sense of humour"
04:01.05yukonbobplus: "is tired atm, and abusing IRC"
04:01.39yukonbob~lart fatigue
04:01.39ibotbeats fatigue over the head with a microkernel
04:06.21brlcadheh
04:08.12yukonbobq: how much would you want to take advantage of the Tcl VM w/i BRL-CAD -- I remember a few days ago there was some disc. aobut string handleing -- that _could_ be handled via Tcl functions, but then one is quite intimately tied to Tcl (moreso than currently?)... Comments?
04:08.35yukonbob*about, *handling
04:15.52yukonboblooks into grep bug
04:21.04brlcadin that particular instance, it was just developer getting familiar with available routines -- we have a set of routines for variable length string processing already that are fairly high-performance
04:24.21yukonbobok -- they may be higher perf. than the Tcl routines, but lets say I committed some code that ties into Tcl pretty heavily, but gets the job perfectly fine... would that be considered acceptable from?
04:24.25yukonbobform
04:24.26yukonbob*form
04:28.55brlcadreally depends on the context
04:30.44brlcadadding new library dependencies, for example, is generally discouraged (or at least should be heavily justified as it's a maintenance/integration burden)
04:31.23brlcadcurrently, some of the libs already use tcl (heavily) in their implementation
04:32.21yukonbobthe reason I ask is that one could _really_ lean on these things, and it'd make a lot of sense on one hand, no reinventing the wheel basically, but otoh, things are getting more tied to Tcl, and if one wanted to start adding Python, some Scheme, or whatever, it might basically require an overhaul...
04:33.13brlcadyep
04:33.23yukonbobya, Tcl is a special case becuase it's so intrinsic to BRL-CAD in it's present state... but my experience (limited as it is, obviously) is that Tcl is used where necessary, but not at every available opportunity...
04:34.16brlcadthe decision was made a somewhat mid-long time ago to do the former but the mindset has slowly been changing to begin abstracting it away so it's eventually scripting layer agnostic
04:36.45yukonbobthinking about that a bit, it sounds _really_ tedious (ie: it'd be a "nice and quick" to start really taking advantage of Tcl, but instead, pretty much all of it's goodness (except for the syntax), is wasted if one is going to develop in such an agnostic way (same applies to Python, Perl, scheme, etc)
04:36.52yukonbob)
04:36.55brlcadyeah, I wouldn't just replace functionality that libbu already provides, for example, with tcl's just for the sake of integration -- there'd have to be some core reason that justified it
04:37.54yukonbobright -- but for future work, would you consider using Tcl facilites, or be more inclined to write your own (putting them in libbu, for example)?
04:38.19brlcadreally depends on the feature in question and the benefit leveraged
04:38.26yukonbobnods
04:38.27brlcadi don't think there's a clear-cut answer
04:39.21brlcadthere's also short-term gains and long-term plans
04:39.26yukonbobis about as impressed w/ Tcl as am with BRL-CAD -- a match made in heaven from my perspective
04:39.29yukonbob<PROTECTED>
04:40.04yukonbobre: gains/plans: ie: ideas written down for how to steer development?
04:41.05brlcadthere is some written down, but not posted anywhere public yet -- some big-picture project vision directions
04:41.31yukonbobnods -- and so not yet ready for public consumption, or just happen to not be posted yet?
04:41.40brlcadjust not posted yet
04:41.46yukonbobcool
04:42.50brlcadneeds some polish, a little wordsmithing refinement
04:43.35brlcadcourse, the document I have in mind is fairly high-level -- this hits at low-level technical (which is more heavily driven by contributors and discussion)
05:15.28CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30712 10/brlcad/trunk/ (BUGS src/util/bwmod.c): dawn thomas noted that bwmod performing a divide-by-zero no longer occurs. turns out this bug was fixed about 3.5 years ago by butler in r23494 so poof it goes, thx dawn
05:22.59CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30713 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/bwmod.c: don't compare floating point with ==, use NEAR_ZERO tolerancing for portability
06:50.26*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
06:56.24d_rossbergpacman87: have you seen my comments to your revolve article in the wiki?
06:56.41pacman87d_rossberg: not yet
07:00.20d_rossbergyou could hit the "watch" button there
07:00.34pacman87d_rossberg: i thought i did...
07:01.05d_rossbergthat's strange :-|
07:02.32pacman87i missed the 'email me on watched changes' checkbox
07:02.51pacman87thanks for alerting me
07:03.35pacman87does the ray-tracing algrorithm already use the bounding box for short circuiting?
07:03.44d_rossbergi hope i've seen this checkbox (i'm not sure about it)
07:04.30d_rossbergrt with bounding box: i don't know, that's also a question for me
07:05.06pacman87it would make sense for that check to be done at the higher level
07:05.37d_rossbergindeed
07:05.38pacman87if so, that step can be skipped
07:06.10pacman87re: shot 2.2, what you said was what i mean by "(Or store the end surface seperately to avoid the ray transformation.)"
07:06.34*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
07:06.52d_rossbergno, i don't wont to store any surface seperately
07:07.20d_rossbergi mean: reduce the problem to 2D and use the 2D shape we have
07:07.41pacman87right, that was a copy/paste from before that i missed
07:07.45pacman87s/surface/plane
07:08.24d_rossbergthe plane is edscribed by the rotation axis and angle
07:08.42pacman87and the first plane
07:09.12d_rossbergby the "start vector" or direction
07:09.52d_rossbergthis is part of the "Internal Representation" work package
07:10.10pacman87plane is a location vector and a normal vector, and start and end planes can share the location vector, so you'd need 1 location and 2 normals
07:10.48d_rossbergthis would be one possibility
07:12.33pacman87i think that would reduce the amount of math necessary to find the intersection with the second plane, instead of stroring a transform to apply to the first plane (which is what i think you're saying, correct me if that's wrong)
07:12.55pacman87what timezone are you in?
07:13.26d_rossbergGMT+1
07:13.47d_rossbergi.e. UTC+2 (because of DST)
07:15.30d_rossbergand yes, i wonder that you are awake
07:15.49pacman872:20am
07:16.12pacman87working on a programming assignment
07:18.02d_rossbergso you should try to finish you work for this night and get some sleep
07:19.09pacman87i sleep on the weekends (taking 16 hours of coursework, and workign ~14 hrs/week)
07:21.20pacman87here's the log of my conversation with sean about this: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/20080411.html.gz
07:27.09d_rossbergi've seen this (with this site i don't have to be logged in permanently, i.e. if you see me on the irc i'm not so far away (however maybe to lunch))
08:42.16d_rossbergbrlcad: is there a concept to get rid of the different win32-msvc directories?
08:50.57*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
08:51.43mafmhello
09:46.48*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.19.77)
09:47.29andrecastelogood morning folks
11:03.56*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@210.212.55.3)
12:37.17*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.193.20)
12:47.43brlcadd_rossberg: yeah, eventually .. heck, I wish they were autogenerated off the makefile.am's (or cmake) :)
12:47.52brlcadthe 7's can probably go away now
12:49.30brlcadthe 6's can go away as soon as you and wim are done with them :)
12:49.43brlcadpresuming 8 has all the same functionality merged in
12:51.37d_rossbergyes, and now i've 9's
12:52.24d_rossberghowever, i wrote some cmake files for the brlcad.dll
12:52.46d_rossbergand now i want to replace the .dsp by these files
12:54.23d_rossbergperhaps it could be a base for others too
13:16.40brlcadd_rossberg: iiinteresting (and glad to hear you're on 9 now :)
13:19.14brlcadmildly unrelated but fyi, I'm about to tag the 7.12.2 release (today)
13:24.16d_rossberghere you are
13:26.14CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r30714 10/brlcad/trunk/ (33 files in 12 dirs):
13:26.14CIA-10BRL-CAD: update of the brlcad.dll build environment for current MSVC versions
13:26.14CIA-10BRL-CAD: because of differences in the .vcproj files for the different MSVS versions CMake is used here
13:26.14CIA-10BRL-CAD: this does not mean that they are portable to UNIX (at least not at the moment)
13:26.14CIA-10BRL-CAD: perhaps it could be a base to build on
13:40.55CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03dgodbey * r30715 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (librt/g_brep.cpp other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp): Changes support raytracing of simple Rhino converted geometries
13:56.19``Erikuhhhh
13:58.56*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-26-22.perm.iinet.net.au)
13:59.05thing0hey brlcad
13:59.46``Erikhum
14:01.07thing0hey ``Erik
14:04.40``Erik'sup, thing?
14:07.09thing0work
14:07.12thing0and more work
14:07.34thing0was wondering if you remember brlcad's website, the one where he wrote about some UI concepts
14:10.16``Erikuhm, I've seen lots of his websites
14:10.47``Erikare you talking about http://brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html ?
14:15.21thing0sorry ``Erik was on the phone
14:16.04thing0``Erik: it was a wiki based one
14:16.13thing0not that one u just showed me
14:16.25``Erik*shrug* irc responses aren't expected to be prompt :) sometimes I respond after a week or so
14:17.32thing0lol
14:18.18``Eriknot http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas is it?
14:25.14brlcadcan only imagine
14:25.35``Erikbrlcad, kill the trash page ont he wiki... W/w/index.php I think
14:26.02``Erik:D
14:26.11brlcaddamnits
14:26.18brlcadit's still not notifying me
14:29.23CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30716 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/openw.tcl: this isn't C, use elseif
14:30.45``Erikcommitter "wm" is bill m?
14:30.51brlcadyes
14:31.10brlcaddoesn't see W/w/index.php
14:31.24``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/W/w/index.php
14:31.45brlcadaw, he needs help
14:33.39brlcadlooks like that snuck in before recaptcha was enabled
14:34.50brlcadah, tsk.. I did skip wm
14:34.54brlcadgood catch
14:35.22``ErikI'm adding it
14:35.24``Erikand a couple others
14:39.15``Eriksvn log . | grep '^r[0-9]' | awk '{print $3}' | sort | uniq -c | sort -nr | less
14:39.16``Erikpheer.
14:39.45``ErikI don't suppose svn has the notion of user aliases?
14:43.15brlcadnope
14:43.20brlcadnot that I know of at least
14:43.29brlcadohloh does, I've added most of the aliases there
14:43.42``Erikwhere is g-sat in the src? I'm not seeing it O.o (was it removed?)
14:43.48``Erikoh, src/external
14:43.52brlcadyeah
14:44.05brlcadit relies on cubit libraries
14:44.44brlcad~fishslap mike for not writing a dependency-free sat exporter
14:44.44ibotACTION slaps mike up side the head with a wet fish for not writing a dependency-free sat exporter
14:47.52CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30717 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: add missing nicknames
14:47.53``Eriksvn locks ftl :(
14:48.18brlcadonly cause you aborted, svn cleanup ftw
14:48.30``ErikI don't recall aborting anything, and svn cleanup failed
14:48.37brlcado.O
14:48.40brlcadnever seen cleanup fail
14:48.42``Erikyeah. o.O indeed
14:49.21``Erikbleh, scrolled off my buffer, gave an error somewhere in doc/html about locking issues
14:49.32``Erikmay've been triggered by working over nfs to a shoddy linux server
14:50.07``Erika horse is a horse, of course, of course
14:50.11``Erikwanders off to talk to mr ed
15:10.46prasad_whoa pun
15:10.48prasad_?
15:11.29thing0hey brlcad
15:11.33thing0didn't see u here
15:11.38thing0having a chat with someone in MSN
15:15.54thing0brlcad: do u recall the website I am referring to?
15:16.21thing0It was an article that you had written about how the modern day UI within windows and other applications was quite pooe
15:16.23thing0*poor
15:16.49thing0in that users had dialog boxes etc that stole focus, whereas it should all integrate together better
15:17.04thing0and also, why do we need to save, why doesn't it do it automatically
15:17.09thing0unlimited undos
15:17.14thing0what else....
15:17.15thing0hmm
15:17.24thing0that's why I want to read the article again
15:17.25thing0:)
15:19.02thing0well, I'll leave my laptop on overnight
15:19.13thing0*hopefully* someone will remember
15:19.14thing0;)
15:19.15thing0ttyl
15:19.18thing0night
15:21.53d_rossbergthing0: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/
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17:24.37*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548752DD.dip.t-dialin.net)
17:37.01``Erikyay for site power outages, boo for them not lasting long enough for me to go play in the grass barefoot
17:46.30*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@wireless-194-214.uchicago.edu)
17:47.50jdolinerDid you see the patch brlcad?
18:34.07CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30718 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Try a slight tweak with the tread.
19:04.21mafmbye
19:20.11brlcadhas no idea what thing0 is referring to at the moment
19:20.34brlcadjdoliner: yes, I did -- haven't had time to review it yet though
19:20.40brlcadjdoliner: glad to see it though, was getting worried :)
19:29.04jdolinergood
19:32.22jdolinershould I post a link to it in my application, or is that redundant at this point
19:41.17brlcadplease do
19:41.30brlcadjust makes it easier on the mentors
19:41.44``Erikyes, mentors are incredibly lazy :D
19:51.10jdolinerk i've updated the application
19:51.25*** part/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@wireless-194-214.uchicago.edu)
19:53.52brlcadfind it annoying that he keeps leaving! :)
20:05.06pacman87the only time i leave is to restart X, or restart my computer to switch OS's :)
20:05.33``Erika) run a console irc client in 'screen' so you can restart X without losing your irc session
20:05.41``Erikb) quit switching os's, just use fbsd and be happy :D *duck*
20:06.06``Erikruns his irc client (bitchx) inside of screen on a dedicated 'server' :)
20:06.33pacman87yeah, i've been meaning to look into 'screen', but haven't had time yet
20:06.40``Erikand I just put a UPS on it, soooo the next reboot should be when I move :) (which I'll combine an OS upgrade with)
20:06.42``Erik<PROTECTED>
20:07.20pacman87and for (b), one programming class uses MSVC to compile, so i have to boot winXP to double check my code
20:07.33``Erikwine? vmware? :)
20:07.41``Erikhehehhe
20:07.57pacman87i've got VMware with an XP install, but my comp is frustratingly slow
20:08.31pacman87and i'm not sure how nicely MSVC would play with wine
20:08.46``Erikdual booted with windows when he was in college, knows the routine... always appreciated classes that either provided shell accounts on the target machines or were platform agnostic
20:11.43``ErikI think the most annoying class was probably the arch class, had to make a pipelined cpu in 'mmlogic', which is a very windows thingie :/
20:12.49``Erikwhoa, they made mmlogic open source O.O
20:22.18``Erikhehehe http://www.linuxisforbitches.com/aol.php
21:28.55``Erik"There is a difference between eating a varied diet and chowing down on a cup of lard and sugar once a day. Programmers know this instinctively: they balance their daily menu among the four major food groups: caffeine, sugar, grease, and salt."
21:33.43CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30719 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/clone.c: If necessary, modify the matrix to apply mirror effects to the incoming primitive.
21:42.12hippieindamakin8hey pacman87 ``Erik and brlcad
21:42.23pacman87hi
21:45.04hippieindamakin8cya guys later :P
22:00.48brlcadhello
22:02.42*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.193.20)
22:03.37CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30720 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Combine everything into single toplevel object, add options for naming that object.
22:19.33*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@89.181.5.73)
22:19.41mafmhallo
22:24.58brlcadhowdy mafm
22:26.00mafmraining cats and dogs, and I suspect that my laptop is suffering from that
22:31.08*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.77.100)
22:31.30andrecastelogood evening cadheads :b
22:31.40brlcadhowdy andre
22:32.43andrecastelohey brlcad, how are you doing?
22:33.38mafmcadheads? shut up you, tropical coconut! :P
22:34.22andrecastelo:(
22:34.32andrecasteloi just wanted to sound cool like yukonbob :b
22:37.51mafm:)
22:38.00mafmthat's fine, I'm just having a terrible day
22:39.35andrecastelowhy's that?? not enought string theory??
22:39.46andrecastelos/enought/enough
22:39.48andrecastelo:b
22:40.31mafmactually too many little annoyances happening at once
22:40.59mafmyet physicist are part of the problem, yep
22:42.27brlcadandrecastelo: doing ok, a bit stressed/busy, but good
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22:47.42andrecastelo_i hate this internet :{
22:48.51mafmyep, intertubez are lame
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080418

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080418

00:38.48*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@wireless-199-227.uchicago.edu)
00:40.07brlcadhello jdoliner
00:46.10jdolinerhi
00:46.49brlcadshows jdoliner the wonderous awesomemeness of 'screen'
00:48.03jdolinerI'm afraid I don't see the wonderous awesomeness
00:49.15brlcadscreen+irssi ftw
00:49.44brlcadthen you can read the log and respond/interact *much* more effectively ;)
00:50.34jdolinerscreen+irssi
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01:26.42*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code, see http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code || GSoC applications are being reviewed throughout the week, final candidates will be required to provide a useful patch
01:42.34mafmbye
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02:19.59starseeker_homeis being gradually introduced to screen+irssi
02:20.12starseeker_homeit is awesome
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02:57.03brlcadindeedy
02:57.31starseeker_homeupgrades BRL-CAD on home box for rt -k goodness...
02:57.38brlcadheh
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03:44.44CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30721 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Add input flag for tread - default is off, -t to activate it (currently only the default test tread is available.
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03:45.33brlcadyay, distcheck succeeds
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03:49.44brlcadhowdy dtidrow
04:47.08CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30723 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (Makefile.am tire.1): Add start of man page for tire, integrate it into autoconf.
04:47.47starseeker_homedecides his eyes are bugged out enough for one night...
05:03.57CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30724 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: don't need an array for single values, just pass in an address to that value then dereference the variable in the function
05:27.47CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30725 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.1: tire started in 2008
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06:43.10brlcadg'morning d_rossberg (and goodnight!) :)
06:43.17d_rossbergmoin moin
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10:03.23mafmhi
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10:49.22thing0hi mafm
10:50.46mafm'lo there
10:55.50thing0sup
11:05.15mafmtrying to find a new laptop... I hate mine and CRC errors are no good
11:11.39mafmgoing to lunch now..
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12:36.32hippieindamakin8hey goodmorning guys
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14:36.55andrecastelobom dia everyone
14:39.55mafmtá foda cara andrecastelo
14:51.38hippieindamakin8hey andrecastelo mafm
14:51.47andrecastelohey hippieindamakin8
14:55.20``Erik uhhhh, yo queero taco hell?
14:55.22``Erik:D
14:55.30``Erikhowdy, ya'll
14:55.36andrecastelohey ``Erik :D
14:55.43mafm``Erik: trying to speak mexican? :)
14:56.05``ErikI'm trying to mock myself with a parody attempt at it, yes
14:57.52mafm:P
14:58.02mafmwe're speaking portuguese anyway
14:58.09mafmmuch better language
14:58.48``Erikhehehe, amusing, the one program I did the i18n shit on, the ONE submitted translation file was brazilian portuguese
14:59.52mafmthe amusing part is that it was the only one translation, or do you mean that the portuguese translation was brazilian variant? :)
15:00.57``Erikboth
15:01.02``Erikthe intersection of those
15:01.31``Erik:)
15:01.54``Erik(but, please, don't let me interrupt your convo, I'm just being goofy)
15:02.12mafmwell, Brazil has about 200 million people, Portugal 11 million
15:02.40``Erikyeah, but how many people speak, say, french? spanish? russian? chinese? indian?
15:03.23mafmand some african countries and scattered places around the world (as where I'm from), but those are few and not very computer-literate anyway :)
15:03.31``Erikguess the portuguese speaking world is just cooler than the rest
15:04.01mafmspanish about 400 million people (and written is more unified than portuguese), french about the same as portuguese, mandarin chinese probably over 500 million people... :)
15:05.10mafmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers#Top_20
15:06.05``Erik<-- english and japanese, trying to learn a little german
15:06.17mafmthe french is not very accurate AFAIK, the de-facto "international" language for may people in Africa and some other places is still french instead of english
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15:06.33``Eriksouthern asia has a lot of french speaking people, as well
15:07.23mafmI'm native of portuguese and spanish, and then english as third language, and understanding of a few other latin-related ones like italian :)
15:12.59``Erikheh, spanish and italian are both romance languages, I'm not sure of portuguese falls into that
15:13.20``Erikgerman is teutonic, english is a horrible bastardization of 3 major families (therefore incredibly difficult to "master")
15:13.40hippieindamakin8one billion people speak indian :P
15:14.15clock_I found english very easy to master
15:14.34yukonbobwaves in
15:14.48hippieindamakin8and by indian .. it is hindi :) and the most used language in india is english :)
15:14.57mafmportuguese is a bit more close to italian than spanish
15:15.20mafmwaves
15:15.32hippieindamakin8hey yukonbob
15:16.22hippieindamakin8but in all english comes to the rescue doesnt it mafm ``Erik  ?
15:16.34prasad_who's indian
15:16.43hippieindamakin8i am :)
15:16.52prasad_heh cool
15:17.06mafmhippieindamakin8: you mean between italian/spanish/portuguese speakers, or in general?
15:17.10hippieindamakin8when parents are multilingual .. english comes to the rescue :)
15:17.53mafmportuguese speakers tend to understand standard spanish almost completely, and mostly italian, but the other way around much less :)
15:18.01hippieindamakin8ya i had spanish and italian flatmates in sweden and it was very difficult for them to have a conversation amongst themselves
15:18.13mafmbut lately when young people meets or so, english tends to be the common language
15:18.40mafmin the case of parents with different languages, usually one of them accomodates
15:18.46hippieindamakin8neways .. every language has it own flavour :)
15:19.28hippieindamakin8my parents from 2 different languages by birth :) i finally started using english
15:19.31mafmsweeden is a completely different language, I don't know its roots
15:19.41hippieindamakin8it is close to german
15:20.18hippieindamakin8in india there are 600 languages :)
15:20.45mafmwell, india is very big
15:21.14mafmprobably in whole europe there are also about as much
15:21.17hippieindamakin8ya :) may be i ll try later to port the brl-cad package to hindi :)
15:21.22hippieindamakin8ya :)
15:22.00mafmnot counting immigrants of course, otherwise there are about 6k :)
15:22.03clock_we have a lot of languages in Links menu but no hindi yes
15:22.32hippieindamakin8but actually porting to hindi is of not much use..
15:22.57clock_we have like portuguese and brazilian portuguese
15:23.03clock_bahasa indonesia and upper sorbian
15:23.08clock_we should get hindi and tibetan
15:23.09hippieindamakin8anybody who uses a package or computers are good at english
15:23.32prasad_i8n is a pain
15:23.44prasad_we finally have a good IME solution in our product
15:24.07Axman6i18n?
15:24.14clock_we dont have israeli probably because our system cant write right to left
15:24.18prasad_yup
15:24.34hippieindamakin8:)
15:24.42clock_we also cannot write from center to the edges, inside up, in a spiral or in an elephant shape
15:25.12clock_but we have a special support for braille terminal
15:29.13mafmuh, that's cool
15:29.35mafmdo you know if the are there any people using it?
15:29.56clock_like Links or like the particular translation?
15:30.33mafmthe translation
15:30.44mafmwith links you mean the text mode browser?
15:30.44clock_I don't know
15:30.53clock_text and graphics mode browser
15:31.00mafmgraphics?
15:31.03clock_yes
15:31.13clock_with -g it runs in graphics mode, without in text
15:31.34clock_displays porn bettern then any other browser
15:31.47clock_because of sophisticated careful image handling
15:32.57hippieindamakin8prasad_, are u a POI ?
15:33.03hippieindamakin8*PIO
15:33.13prasad_a wha?
15:33.24prasad_oh indian origin?
15:33.28hippieindamakin8person of india origin
15:33.31prasad_sri lankan
15:33.45hippieindamakin8oh :)
15:34.42mafmclock_: I think that you should advertise those special features as links4pr0n
15:35.12mafmyou would surpass Firefox market share
15:35.14mafm:)
15:35.28clock_no we don't have CSS and Flash
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15:37.14mafmhmm, I can't find screenies of links in graphics modes
15:37.34mafmdo you use X, GTK, Qt or something like that?
15:37.49clock_we don't use GTK and Qt
15:37.51clock_but we use X
15:38.16clock_Here is the list of graphical platforms we run on http://links.twibright.com/features.php
15:38.29clock_"Links runs in graphics mode (mouse required) on X Window System (UN*X, Cygwin), SVGAlib, Linux Framebuffer, OS/2 PMShell, AtheOS GUI"
15:38.40clock_Not sure what an AtheOS GUI is
15:38.56clock_But since I wrote a program that allegedly runs on it, I think it must at least exist.
15:39.23clock_Also never seen the OS/2 PMShell
15:39.36mafmwow, very nice indeed
15:40.27clock_It also runs on SPAD but since SPAD is not yet released yet it probably doesn't make sense to mention it
15:40.37clock_on SPAD it runs at least on svgalib
15:42.54clock_I should probably suggest BRL-CAD to be ported on SPAD
15:43.14clock_How many places have to be changed because SPAD has filenames in the style logical_disk:dir1/dir2/filename
15:43.18clock_with case-insensitive filenames
15:43.29clock_it has X Window System
15:43.37clock_standard gcc and so
15:44.31mafmI didn't know that
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17:52.35mafmbye
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18:06.57CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30726 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/clone.c: Modify f_clone() to return the name of the clone if one has been created.
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18:37.46CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30727 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Tweak the zig-zag tread generator.
19:14.41CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30728 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/xclone.tcl: Initial check-in.
19:15.15CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30729 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/tclIndex: Add entry for xclone.
19:17.52CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30730 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/Makefile.am: Add entry for xclone.tcl.
19:49.44CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30731 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/clone.c: Modified copy_v5_solid to use state->rpnt if specified.
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20:22.33brlcadfor the students waiting -- just wanted to let you know that every application is very much valued and appreciated, especially the hard work that goes into them -- I wish we could accept more (and maybe next year we'll have a larger developer capacity for doing that)
20:22.56brlcadso if you're a student that applied, thank you *very* much for all your hard work -- best of luck to everyone and even if you're not accepted, I sincerely do hope many of you will stay/become involved with BRL-CAD development
20:23.12brlcadinvolvement throughout the year can do wonders for next year's participation too if google runs the program again, if we apply as an org, if we're accepted, etc ;)
20:23.30brlcadannouncements should be on monday
20:23.38thing0cool
20:23.41thing0morning brlcad
20:24.16*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code, see http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code || GSoC student selections will be announced on Monday the 21st
20:24.24brlcadhowdy thing0
20:24.57thing0it is awesome brlcad got into GSoC
20:24.59thing0:)
20:25.22thing0hopefully this will speed up dev
20:26.09brlcadhopefully indeed :)
20:26.21brlcadlooking forward to seeing how things grow
20:26.33brlcadhopefully the start of a productive tradition :)
20:26.54thing0yes it would be good
20:26.55brlcadthere are some really impressive candidates, lots of great ideas
20:26.56thing0hehe
20:27.01thing0awesome
20:27.14thing0good thing too
20:27.24thing0I'm getting really sick of commercial CAD
20:28.04brlcadopen source collaboration ftw
20:28.24thing0hehe
20:28.28thing0exactly
20:29.00thing0just the fact that all it seems they are doing, is adding just enough features to make users pay maintenance the next year
20:29.23thing0I'm going to start blogging about my CAD frustrations shortly
20:29.24thing0hehe
20:29.45thing0just been trying to make a script to clean up the output from onenote
20:29.52thing0cause I keep all my notes in there now
20:29.53thing0;)
20:30.03brlcadof course, most commercial CAD are entrenched and "done" .. their products won't radically change or improve, they can't
20:30.04thing0vendor lock-in I know
20:30.06thing0hehe
20:30.14thing0brlcad: yeah I agree
20:30.29thing0but solidworks for example
20:30.38thing0just seems to be trying to fit everyones boat
20:30.52thing0which it shouldn't
20:31.02thing0but
20:31.09thing0it is all in the name of sales
20:32.36thing0I am starting to become more interested in Explicit Modeling
20:33.15thing0I think that  it should be Explicit Modeling with the ability to control the parts created parametrically
20:33.30thing0so quickly model up the concept you want
20:33.39thing0then drive the size with the dimensions
20:33.43thing0but within 3d
20:33.51thing0not dependent on a 2d sketch
20:34.04``ErikI still can't beieve hallmark makes a "glad you're no longer a giant croc turd" card.
20:34.21thing0lol
20:34.26thing0but yeah
20:34.38thing0just so happy I am not in design/drafting for a living anymore
20:34.56thing0the tools just don't meet my requirements
20:35.06thing0to optimistic
20:35.07thing0:)
20:35.22brlcadso you going to help develop said tools that provide said requirements? :)
20:36.02thing0brlcad: hehe
20:36.06brlcad_Erikis the, uh, thing, uh, over? am I too late?
20:36.20thing0I always wanted to
20:36.30thing0I cannot believe how little time I have now
20:36.32thing0:(
20:36.44thing0working for two companies at the moment
20:36.48thing0which keep me flat out
20:36.50brlcad_ErikI wish I had enough time to say I have little time :(
20:36.59thing0trying to get my life in order
20:37.08thing0so that I can do more stuff
20:37.16thing0but yeah
20:37.46thing0atm, working on a software project for the second company on a casual basis which usually eats up most of my weekend
20:37.59thing0need 9 days in a week
20:38.00thing0;)
20:39.11brlcadbrlcad_Erik: it's over now, buh thx :)
20:39.24``Erikah well
20:39.30brlcadwe only had one conflict to resolve, it was quick
20:39.37``Erikokie
20:39.52``ErikI remember one was handled earlier oob
20:40.08thing0"Without the CoCreate software," says Kolb, "we'd end up solving many of our problems with a welding torch. That's expensive and time-consuming."
20:40.20thing0we do that all the time at work
20:40.27thing0hehe
20:40.32thing0but yeah
20:40.37thing0client pays for there mistakes
20:40.38thing0hehe
20:40.55brlcadbut so much more fun
20:41.21brlcadi suppose welding isn't fun when you do it every day though :)
20:41.37thing0hehe
20:41.47thing0I just give the command
20:41.51thing0and watch it happen
20:42.08thing0construction is fun
20:42.12thing0very challenging though
20:42.19thing0as the industry is turning to shit
20:42.28thing0clients are getting worse and worse
20:42.35thing0more dis-organised
20:42.45thing0no idea when it comes to procurment
20:42.47brlcadnah, you're just getting older and wiser, more aware of the mess :)
20:43.24thing0lol
20:43.27thing0hehe
20:43.37thing0I love the challenge thoughj
20:43.41thing0plus
20:43.48thing0I seem to get away with alot of things
20:43.51thing0which is good
20:43.52thing0hehe
20:44.04thing0not in a bad way
20:44.05thing0more in the sense
20:44.09thing0data aquistions
20:44.18thing0I have setup a bit of a systems
20:44.33thing0by which I can obtain almost any information I seek from the client
20:44.39thing0without the client even knowing
20:44.41thing0hehe
20:44.56thing0all information only of course.... :)
20:45.03thing0not stealing it
20:45.17brlcadtheif!
20:45.19thing0people from within the client are giving away the information
20:45.39brlcadright off the back of their truck, honest officer, they gave it to me
20:46.01thing0or there engineering department just give it too me, instead of waiting for document control
20:46.02thing0hehe
20:46.23thing0document control = 1 month delay
20:46.41brlcad* control = # months delay
20:49.27thing0hehe
20:49.30thing0exactly
20:49.46thing0we have it under control though
20:49.58thing0just the industry is changing
20:50.40thing0but yeah
20:50.52thing0time to sort my todolist for the weekend
20:50.53thing0hehe
20:59.51hippieindamakin8hey brlcad and ``Erik
21:03.49hippieindamakin8so the meeting for today is over huh ? :)
21:12.04brlcadquite
21:15.35hippieindamakin8so how was it ?
21:20.49brlcadno problems
21:24.20``Erikhey, burley, monday 0830 ccb
21:25.47``Erikwaits for an ack packet
21:26.01brlcadack
21:26.23``Erikok, I'll let ed know you'll be there and prepared O.o 0830-1000 I assume in 250
21:26.45brlcadi'll actually be in in a lil bit
21:28.11``Erikok, but we might not be here :D
21:28.34``Erikand it's 200, not 250. Ed wants me to make sure you'll have the list of changes for that...
21:28.35``Erik:)
21:28.47``Erikdoncha love the beaurocracy of it all?
21:28.49hippieindamakin8hey brlcad can we implement mouse based transformations of the geometry ? or does it support that ?
21:29.22``Eriksed, click edit, click the thing you want to change (rotate, translate, etc) and use the mouse...
21:29.25hippieindamakin8as in i want to select a point on the geometry and drag to another place
21:29.29``Erikthen accept when you're done?
21:29.50hippieindamakin8and the body should deform to form a bulge
21:30.08hippieindamakin8smthing of the shape pf a speed breaker
21:30.09``Erikthat'd require something like nurbs, which is being worked on, but not ready yet... :)
21:30.23hippieindamakin8splines will do that functionality
21:30.34hippieindamakin8ya :) NURBS
21:30.45brlcad``Erik: no problemo
21:31.03brlcadhippieindamakin8: if by we you mean are contributions welcome for that .. sure :)
21:31.42hippieindamakin8i actually meant me :P
21:31.53``Erikwell, contributions are welcome :D
21:32.14hippieindamakin8i shall do that once i get to know the tcl/tk better
21:32.34brlcadyou don't need to know tcl/tk to make that better
21:33.04hippieindamakin8got this idea when i was trying to solve this question on NURBS in my endsem paper.. which is take home
21:33.15hippieindamakin8i can implement the math rt now though
21:33.53``ErikI think my weekend just started. Hasta la pasta :)
21:34.12hippieindamakin8oh are u spanish ``Erik :)
21:35.47hippieindamakin8's friends are playing bzflag stating the reason as "experimenting with ogl" on the eve of the end semester :P
21:36.11brlcadmakes complete sense to me
21:36.26hippieindamakin8:)
21:37.57PrezKennedyWEEKEND!!!
21:38.00PrezKennedyruns!
21:38.52hippieindamakin8weekend is ruined by the stupic endsems
21:39.53PrezKennedynot mine!
21:40.14hippieindamakin8:) mine though
21:40.22CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30732 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/xclone.tcl: xclone started in 2008
22:04.14CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30733 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Still have a bug in tread somewhere - not fixed yet - uploading for further study.
22:04.31thing0brb
22:04.39thing0switching internet service :P
22:06.36*** join/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@203-59-26-22.perm.iinet.net.au)
22:06.51thing1and were back
22:06.52thing1hehe
22:10.33brlcadthey're spawning!
22:14.35*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.9.148)
22:14.51andrecastelogood evening folks
22:16.39hippieindamakin8hey andrecastelo
22:16.52andrecastelosup hippieindamakin8  :D
22:17.07brlcadhowdy andrecastelo, how are you
22:17.46andrecastelobrlcad: i'm fine thanks, good to be finally home.. i was at the university until now
22:19.10andrecastelobrb :D
22:29.17andrecastelook, back :D
22:30.09andrecastelohey brlcad, did you see the center point patch ?
22:30.29hippieindamakin8brlcad, lh wants to get some suggestions about the opensource drawing software :)
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23:59.28starseeker_homegrowls in frustration - it's gotta be something obvious...
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080419

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080419

00:02.39yukonbobwaves in
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01:09.03DevJockHello, this is my first time using IRC, please forgive me if I do something stupid.
01:53.17starseeker_homeDevJock: welcome
02:07.30*** join/#brlcad DevJock (n=DevJock@ppp-67-66-49-243.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net)
02:27.26DevJockHas anyone considered making the source code available in a .7z instead of a .zip format? The file size is way smaller.
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02:42.37brlcadhello DevJock
02:43.02CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30734 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Rotation looks OK now, but primitives in tread pattern look off - may have sizing wrong.
02:43.07brlcadDevJock: no, I don't think anyone has ever cared much about the format :)
02:43.20starseeker_homeplays whack-a-bug
02:43.25brlcadzip is really to appease ignorant windows users that are only familiar with zip
02:44.30starseeker_homeis also glad in retrospect he tried a simple tread pattern before trying a complex (real) pattern
02:48.28*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu)
02:48.33brlcadhey pacman87
02:48.35pacman87hi
03:00.02starseeker_homebrlcad:  I'm getting some wireframe behavior I don't quite understand:  http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/primitive-oddity.png
03:00.42starseeker_homebrlcad:  It's quite possible I have the dimensions wrong, but in that case shouldn't both the wireframe and the raytrace be off?
03:01.45DevJockHi brlcad, I'm using Bersirc IRC and it's nice to talk to you guys
03:05.27brlcadstarseeker_home: i'm not sure what I"m looking at in the screenshot
03:05.50brlcadare those arbs?
03:06.19brlcadthe black would normally be invalid -- looks like something twisted inside out
03:06.51brlcadotherwise that's a pretty harsh change in normal..
03:07.28brlcadDevJock: welcome, hope you hang .. irc is more a lifestyle than an activity ;)
03:10.17starseeker_homeyes - arbs
03:10.39brlcadmy first guess would be that they're twisted or inverted
03:10.42starseeker_homeIt should be a fairly garden variety arb8
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03:10.43starseeker_homeOK
03:11.10starseeker_homewill re-examine how the arbs are drawn - thanks
03:16.22brlcadthey'll still draw the wireframe if a face is twisted, but the normals and hits will be screwy
03:18.14yukonbobevening, geeks :)
03:18.57pacman87we're not cadheads anymore?
03:20.07yukonbobevening cadheads
03:20.23yukonbobhow's it going pacman87  :)
03:21.16yukonbobreviewed links after he found out our own clock was involved w/ the development, but it's page navigation is still t3h sux0rs compared to w3m
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03:38.43DevJockI was told that some of the developers use an IDE to work on the source code. Could you guys specify one. I was trying to set up a Code::Blocks project to compile the code, but you weren't kidding about a million lines of code, and I have no idea how to get the Java files to compile. I'm a spoiled windows user with 6 years of C++ development experience in a Visual Studio environment. Any help, advice would be appreciated.
03:43.19CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30735 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/ (. Makefile.am): ignore and clean up after ylwrap
03:45.17brlcadhowdy yukonbob
03:45.37brlcadDevJock: ah, you are the guy from the forum then
03:46.00brlcadthe java files are technically optional, you can conceivably ignore them
03:49.01DevJock<brlcad>: yup, that's me from the forum, okay then, I'll ignore the java files for now and just see about getting all the c files into Code::Blocks. Thanks.
03:51.07brlcadsounds good, look forward to hearing how it goes
03:52.11brlcadDevJock: there are also MSVC build files if you still prefer windows ;)
03:52.29brlcadthe windows build of brl-cad could also use lots of love
03:56.53DevJock<brlcad>: Well Code::Blocks is supposed to be a cross platform IDE, so I guess if I could get that to work it really would be useful not just to windows users.
03:58.56yukonboblooks-up Code::Blocks
04:00.07CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30736 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/jove/jove.h: string.h needs to take priority, remove the HAVE_STRINGS_H check
04:14.30CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30737 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/jove/jove.h: no longer need common.h with HAVE_STRINGS_H removed
04:16.28CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30738 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/jove/jove.h: oops, revert .. we do still need it elsewhere
04:17.58DevJockWell I was sure was optimistic, I added all the c and h files to my BRL-CAD code project. Attempting to build the code produced alot of errors, the first being "\brlcad-7.12.0\src\adrt\bench\bench.c|28|pthread.h: No such file or directory|". I assume from this wiki article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POSIX_Threads that I will need the pthreads-w32 for windows in order to get rid of this error?
04:19.03brlcadsrc/adrt hasn't been ported to work on windows
04:21.10DevJock<brlcad>: I assume that I can make like the Java files and for now remove this directory from my project?
04:21.23brlcadshould be able to
04:21.51brlcadsrc/librtserver src/adrt src/external and probably src/other can/should be ignored/removed
04:23.03brlcadthat's a lot of slashes
04:23.33DevJockbrlcad: Thank you, I will be logging out now and spending a little quality time with this.
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14:49.05CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30739 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/Makefile.am: include wdb_deps for the debianeers. for whatever reason, it's still dropping the deps on the cxx target
15:08.52CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30740 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tab/Makefile.am: eep, make sure script.c isn't a BUILT_SOURCES files if we don't have a lexer
15:09.58yukonbobmorning cadheads
15:33.58brlcadmorning cadtails
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16:04.44yukonbobheh
16:05.01yukonbob"cdr"'s?
16:12.40hippieindamakin8hey yukonbob
16:12.57hippieindamakin8good afternoon
16:16.56yukonbobmorning hippieindamakin8
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16:27.21hippieindamakin8are u from canada ?
16:27.32hippieindamakin8Alberta ?
16:28.32yukonbobyes, Canada, but not Alberta
16:28.40yukonbob?Why would you guess Albera
16:28.46yukonbob*Alberta
16:29.13hippieindamakin8:P DNS look up says alberta :P
16:29.39yukonbobpaste your lookup to a pastebin
16:29.43hippieindamakin8just wanted ur timezone to wish u :)
16:30.44hippieindamakin8http://dpaste.com/45813/
16:31.59hippieindamakin8shall get back to studies :P
16:32.48yukonbobI think you looked up the info for the ISP, not me
16:34.10hippieindamakin8ya :)
16:34.32yukonbobmy ass in in Yukon Territory, but the computer I'm networked to (and running my IRC client from) is in British Columbia
16:35.14hippieindamakin8:))
16:36.32yukonbobutc -7
16:38.18hippieindamakin8utc +5:30 or +4:30 durin light saving
16:38.30hippieindamakin8yeah yukonbob are u good at splines ?
16:38.38hippieindamakin8i meant the math
16:40.26yukonbobhippieindamakin8: honestly, I don't know -- I'm not a gfx/cad person when it comes to under-the-hood implementation
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16:42.51hippieindamakin8ohh :) was looking for some texts and reference material for the proofs of the spines and Peano's theorem
16:44.21yukonbobpost a question and see what happends, brlcad, ``Erik, and other smart people are monitoring this channel -- maybe repost when you see pacman come back...
16:44.47yukonbobs/see what happens,/see what happens;/
16:45.09hippieindamakin8Prove Peano's theorem
16:45.11hippieindamakin8:)
16:45.32hippieindamakin8till then i ll give it a try by myself
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17:17.34andrecastelogood afternoon everyone :D
17:23.33brlcadhowdy andre
17:23.52brlcadprobably quite a long weekend for a lot of folks..
17:29.22andrecasteloindeed, i'm quite anxious, can't wait for monday.
17:34.48andrecastelobrlcad: did you look at the code?? :D
17:35.31andrecastelo(for the patch)
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18:20.00*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
18:20.00*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code, see http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code || GSoC student selections will be announced on Monday the 21st
19:01.19brlcadhas a fix for debian working
19:56.27CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30741 10/brlcad/trunk/m4/patch.m4: (log message trimmed)
19:56.27CIA-20BRL-CAD: This should finally (re)fix the Debian and Ubuntu builds. The problem boils down to the Debian devs insisting on modifying default upstream libtool linkage behavior. They
19:56.27CIA-20BRL-CAD: do this for performance/relinkage reasons so that rebuilding and installing a base library (like libpng) doesn't necessarily require relinking all callers. They force
19:56.28CIA-20BRL-CAD: *off* the addition of dependency libraries on the linker line by setting link_all_deplibs=no which in turn mucks havok with compilation. Their intent seems to assume that
19:56.31CIA-20BRL-CAD: all libs are installed before a binary needs to link against them so that recursive linux dynamic link lookups will find everything needed via rpaths alone. So all of the
19:56.34CIA-20BRL-CAD: dependencies listed on our (not-yet-installed) libtool archive libraries are stripped off when binaries are linked.
19:56.37CIA-20BRL-CAD: This fix reverts the libtool script back to the default "unknown" value for link_all_deplibs. So libtool does properly keep track of the recursive dependency descriptions
19:56.43brlcadstupid nano
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20:49.05yukonbobbrlcad: "stupid" debian -- is this libtool shenanigan documented? It seems to have taken a while to figure it out...
21:03.13brlcadyukonbob: actually it didn't take long at all - I just don't use debian, rarely have access to one
21:03.19brlcadhappened to have access to one today
21:03.45brlcadbut yes, there are at least three debian bug reports that relate to it
21:05.11brlcadalas, there are few big packages that build both libs and bins that utilize LIBADD dependencies
21:13.21CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30742 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Bob added xclone command to mged for xpushed deep copies. scripted implementation, performs xpush then clone.
21:29.01yukonbobbrlcad: bugs like that remind me of the jwz quote: "Browser compatibility problems are nature's way of saying 'stop trying to be so fuckin clever'"
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080420

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080420

00:13.32*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.176.147)
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02:29.12DevJockUpon attempting to compile I received the following error ...\brlcad-7.12.0\src\anim\anim_cascade.c|43|common.h: No such file or directory| .... I could not find this file in the source!
02:35.18DevJockShould I also ignore this directory in attempting to build on windows?
02:38.32brlcadDevJock: common.h is in the include directory
02:38.47brlcadyou're probably missing an include path
02:39.03brlcadthere are a variety of include paths that change as the builds progress, include/ being one of them
02:39.58brlcaddepending on compilation options, it can also include various subdirectories in src/other
02:40.53DevJockbrlcad: oh, okay. I was only looking in the src folder, whooops
02:47.00DevJockbrlcad: All right, now I'm getting somewhere. Only 23 errors to go.
02:49.16DevJockbrlcad: yeah I'm getting the can't find tcl.h error, I guessing this is what you meant by having the src\other folder as part of the directories available to the compiler?
03:01.19DevJockbrlcad: Weird, I added the src/other directory above the include directory as part of the search directories of my compiler's build options but I still keep getting ......\include\bu.h|54|tcl.h: No such file or directory|....
03:15.33brlcadDevJock: it depends whether it uses system-provided libs or self-compiled
03:15.54brlcadsrc/other is our external dependencies -- they are compiled if they're not already installed on the system
03:16.48brlcadso you have to include the right directories, src/other is NOT the right directory
03:16.58brlcadthat's why I said varius SUBdirectories
03:25.52DevJockbrlcad: Well, I got better results now, I think I need to remove my project file out of the src directory, and move it perhaps one level up, also I am setting up a 6 build option in Code::Blocks, 3 debug builds for Win, Mac, and Unix, and the other 3 as release builds. Of course I'm just modifying the params to the Win builds, but this experience has already taught me more about using Code::Blocks. I'll be logging out now. Thanks f
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04:47.07yukonbobtakes another look at latest 7.12.x
05:33.59yukonbobconfigure:10029: cc -O2 -I/usr/pkg/include -I/usr/include -I/usr/pkg/include/tcl/generic -I/usr/pkg/include -I/usr/include -I/u
05:34.02yukonbobsr/local/include -L/usr/pkg/lib/tcl/itcl3.3 -L/usr/pkg/lib/tcl/itk3.3 -L/usr/pkg/lib -Wl,-R/usr/pkg/lib -L/usr/lib -Wl,-R/usr/l
05:34.05yukonbobib -L/usr/local/lib conftest.c -ltcl84 -lBLT24 >&5
05:34.08yukonbob/usr/pkgsrc/bch/brlcad-svn/work/.buildlink/lib/libBLT24.so: undefined reference to `Tk_GetPixmap'
05:34.11yukonbob/usr/pkgsrc/bch/brlcad-svn/work/.buildlink/lib/libBLT24.so: undefined reference to `XFreePixmap'
05:34.14yukonbob^--- etc, etc.
05:34.17yukonbob(I know paste bin :P)
05:34.30yukonbobrequires -ltk84
05:35.22yukonbobhrmm -- 1sec.
05:41.27yukonbobapoligizes for rooky noise above, continues ;)
05:41.59brlcadheh
05:42.10brlcadlooks like -ltk84 and -lX11
05:42.18brlcadthat some configure test?
05:42.28yukonbobsometimes I just want my hand held :)
05:42.58yukonboblaughs -- maybe I should hire my own computer nerd for when I don't feel like :P
05:43.55yukonbobyup, configure test -- "-ltk84" alone worked in my case...
05:44.13yukonbobis running, will see how "things" go soon --
05:44.22brlcadyeah, tk provides a few X funcs
05:44.50yukonbobq: re: svn, is there a "-current" in the repo, or how do you handle tags/branching, etc.
05:45.04brlcadtrunk
05:45.38brlcadhttp://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/
05:45.48yukonbob...and is trunk quite diff't from 7.12.1 atm?
05:45.57yukonbobloads uri
05:46.01brlcadtrunk is 7.12.1 atm
05:46.09yukonbobice.
05:46.12yukonbob*nice
05:46.49yukonbobwill get this up/running, then follow from now on so I can adjust my build-env day-to-day and keep everything happy at both our ends...
05:51.11yukonbobwatches his compile continue, is happy
05:57.53yukonbobwants to comment on how well things are going, how I think some work in the BRL-CAD auto* has helped, how a little of my own work has helped, etc., etc., but I don't want to jynx the job... do meta-comments jynx?
06:01.53yukonbobgah :P
06:03.36yukonbobhttp://www.pastebin.ca/990550
06:03.47yukonboblooks for cause
06:11.55yukonboblooks for c99 fmax definition
06:16.31yukonboblooks up NetBSD specifics
06:34.20yukonbobfeh -- /me runs into libtool (wrt libbu) issues... close, but no cigar (yet)
06:43.20CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03bharder * r30743 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/nirt.h: Add test, macro for c99 fmax(), missing in NetBSD.
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07:18.18yukonbobhey clock_
07:18.33yukonbob...and Axman6 :)
07:22.02clock_hey yukonbob
07:22.39yukonbobtook another look at links after finding out you were a dev... /me <== usually w3m
07:25.29yukonboblinks -g == beautify display :)
07:25.38yukonbob*beautiful
07:32.34clock_yukonbob: thanks
07:33.00clock_but yes indeed it has like proper gamma correction, 48 bit colour depth, LCD otpimization, bilinear filtering in the proper photometric space...
07:33.54yukonbobwill give links more of a chance, but _really_ misses the 'jkhl' and other keybindings of w3m -- it's easier to get around the page w/ w3m...
07:34.23yukonbobno need to 'tab' through all the links to get to the one I want, for example.
07:40.08clock_yukonbob: you can like scroll and click with the mouse
07:40.15clock_or use page up page down for fast tabbing
07:43.51yukonbobmouse != what I want in text-based browser (not always running in -g mode) -- pgup/dn might work.. thx
07:44.58Axman6yo yukonbob
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15:59.05yukonbobwow...slow day for cadheads
15:59.45yukonbobwaves in
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17:21.39andrecastelogood afternoon everyone
17:33.20*** join/#brlcad jdoline1 (n=jdoliner@wireless-197-110.uchicago.edu)
17:35.24yukonbobhey andrecastelo
17:35.36andrecastelosup yukonbob, how are you doing?
17:36.43yukonbobnot so bad -- working on getting the latest BRL-CAD distro up/running on my 'puter
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21:04.07yukonbobbrlcad: why does the libtclcad build explictly use the src/other/tcl/*, src/other/tk/*, and src/other/blt/*?
21:05.24brlcadyou mean the include dirs?
21:05.29brlcadit shouldn't
21:05.31yukonbobyup, and the DEPS
21:05.36yukonbob(for BLT)
21:07.25yukonbobtries a patch to Makefile.am; testing.
21:07.32brlcaddeps are just rebuild rules, not part of automake proper
21:08.02brlcadi.e. don't worry too much about deps, but includes can/should probably only come from configure alone
21:08.51yukonbobstarts another build -- is hopefully getting closer to 7.12.x on his puter :)
21:14.37yukonbobalso isn't too impressed w/ the "open"NURBS folks as their password-protected .zip file
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21:19.08Tiekuhi
21:19.48Tiekuis 7.12.0 avilable for windows?
21:20.17brlcadTieku: soon, there is a beta build on ftp
21:20.32Tiekubrlcad: cheers!
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080421

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080421

02:21.24brlcadwow, a branch merge that took over an hour
02:44.08homovulgaris:P must have been some merge
02:47.22brlcadyeah.. 50 fracking conflicts
02:47.37brlcadah 91
02:47.41brlcaddamnits
03:24.16brlcadyukonbob: netbsd without a fmax?  that's .. odd
03:55.51CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30744 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/news2tracker.sh: need to be more exact on matching the revision number line. ran into a revision ID match in the body of one of the commit messages that referred to an sf tracker id.
04:20.05CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30745 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/news2tracker.sh: properly quote the quotes
04:38.06CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30746 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/tracker.sh: sourceforge continues to change the format slightly. match the category link specifically to avoid catching the earlier new javascript
05:36.33yukonbobbrlcad: re: fmax -- indeed -- I think Open may be in same boat...
05:49.35brlcadtis really odd, because fmax is c99
05:49.40brlcadgcc should be providing it
05:49.45brlcadrather, libc
06:01.08yukonbob-lm
06:02.35brlcader, yeah, that too
06:03.36brlcadthat makes me think it's maybe just missing a lib/header/something .. specially since it's c99
06:04.15yukonbobmath(3), on my NetBSD system, fmax(3) (specifically)on my FreeBSD (6.x) system, and also math(3) for the general, which includes fmax/fmin
06:05.34yukonbobon Net, there's no ref to fmin/fmax in the math(3) page -- I'd be interested to know if Open is same (with same results)
06:10.53yukonbobreposts msg to NetBSD geeks querying this issue
06:15.19brlcadhey, if it works, it works :)
06:15.44yukonbobit works now -- *and* I've got my first code commit :)
06:17.41brlcadyup, woot woot :)
06:17.56yukonbobis now experiencing issues w/ htester having undefined references to bu_exit, and htond, ntohd -- but not sure if it's my own fscking that's causing that -- is strange, though :P -- but that's for tomorrow (unless I get some clues or bright ideas and solve soon)
06:18.05yukonbobw00t, indeed :)
06:18.34brlcadsounds like libbu is missing
06:19.29brlcadcompile problem or link problem?  compile would be header path, link would be linker flags
06:20.58yukonbobcompile
06:21.03yukonbobwill attack tmo :)
06:21.36yukonbobI felt close to a working 7.12.x last night... I've since revised to optimism to "Real Soon Now".
06:21.39yukonbob<PROTECTED>
06:21.42yukonbobchat later
06:22.21brlcadcya!
06:25.15yukonbobbtw -- response I get from one person for missing fmin/fmax on NetBSD is "c99 sucks"
06:25.20yukonbob;)
06:27.13brlcadheh
06:43.44CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30747 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/tracker.sh: indent mishap, don't insert a tab before the csv line
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08:11.59brlcadmoin moin daniel
08:15.16d_rossbergmoin moin
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09:37.41mafmhi
11:50.11brlcadhowdy mafm!
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13:09.16andrecastelohi guys
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16:09.49yukonbobmorning cadheads
16:14.03andrecastelomorning yukonbob
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16:51.41hippieindamakin8hey guys
17:15.07homovulgarishey hippie ;)
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17:42.31mafmbye
17:46.24prasad_wassup
18:33.51brlcadtick tick tick tock
18:36.54alex_jonimissing a couple tick's
18:37.59brlcad22 minutes and counting
18:46.05alex_jonireminds me of an old joke.. "what goes 9999 times tick and once tock?"
18:47.38``Erik*readreadread*
18:47.58``Erik*compilecompilecompile*
18:50.46brlcadalex_joni: a bomb
18:51.12alex_joninope.. a myriapoda with a wooden leg
19:10.49prasad_haha
19:12.38prasad_brlcad: looked into git?
19:13.11brlcadprasad_: don't get me started
19:16.15``Erikpats his cvs and rcs
19:19.22prasad_o?
19:19.42prasad_enlighten me
19:20.25alex_jonigit<tab><tab>
19:20.36alex_joniDisplay all 131 possibilities? (y or n)
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19:30.58alex_jonithat always struck me as an issue :)
19:46.12brlcadhehe
19:47.25brlcadprasad_: I really don't like talking about git, maybe another day -- just realize that there are several tradeoffs to consider, some critically important depending on the context
19:47.26hippieindamakin8congrats pacman87
19:47.54hippieindamakin8congrats mafm and andre castelo
19:48.30prasad_github's web 2.0 veneer is nifty
19:48.31prasad_:P
19:48.43prasad_so where are the results posted btw
19:49.22pacman87http://code.google.com/soc/2008/brl/about.html
19:49.30pacman87ty, hippieindamakin8
19:50.00prasad_jra mentoring eh
19:50.01prasad_:D
19:50.48brlcadso yes, the announcements are final -- congratulations
19:51.22brlcadas I've been saying, seriously .. thank you to everyone who submitted and has been involved throughout the application process
19:51.34brlcadit really was a pretty tough choice to narrow down to just 4 slots
19:52.01brlcadbut we did have to draw the line eventually and weigh in many factors
19:54.02brlcadhope you guys stick around and stay involved with the project, if you didn't make it this year I certainly hope you stay involved and consider applying next year .. one of our students that was rejected last year did just that and ended up being one of our top-selections this year
19:54.33brlcadif anyone would like public or private feedback, I'd be glad to provide it
19:56.35yukonbobcontratulations GSoC-ers :)
19:56.48``Erikhuzzah
19:57.29prasad_i should apply next year
20:00.45brlcadbut then you'd have to do work
20:01.08prasad_shit that's true
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20:19.44pooliooooo gsocers :D
20:19.47pooliocongrats guys
20:20.43poolioWait, is there a John R. Anderson at ARL?
20:20.43*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code, see http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code || GSoC student selections are announced! See http://code.google.com/soc/2008/brl/about.html
20:20.53brlcadpoolio: yup
20:20.57brlcadjohn rocks
20:21.01poolioIs he ... there now?
20:21.16poolioMy cogsci advisor is named john r. anderson, I'm guessing unrelated
20:21.31brlcadhe's on his way back from vacation down in daytona, but usually is around
20:25.48prasad_jra is my hero
20:27.46CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30748 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libwdb/ (libwdb.3 wdb.c): Add mk_arb6 command to libwdb.
20:37.42CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30749 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libwdb/ (libwdb.3 wdb.c): Add mk_arb5 and mk_arb7
20:42.33CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30750 10/brlcad/trunk/include/wdb.h: Add header entries for new mk_arb commands
20:44.36*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.60.227)
20:44.47andrecasteloheyeveryone ;DDD
20:45.16brlcadhello andrecastelo  :)
20:45.19brlcadcongratulations
20:45.47andrecastelothanks brlcad, i'm really excited lol
20:46.09brlcadgreat!
20:46.18brlcadlooking forward to a great summer :)
20:46.27andrecasteloi was studying at the university labs when the selections were announced
20:46.53andrecasteloand couldn't join irc and talk to you guys rightaway..
20:47.09brlcadyou mean you were already too busy coding for brl-cad to join the channel ;)
20:47.53andrecasteloyeah that's what i meant hehehe ;D
20:49.03andrecasteloi g2g now, be back here in an hour :D
20:49.16yukonbob"It seems that you've been living two lives. One life, you're john r. anderson, program writer for a respectable open source project. You have a social security number, pay your taxes, and you . . . help your landlady carry out her garbage. The other life is lived in computers, where you go by the hacker alias 'Neo' and are guilty of virtually every computer crime we have a law for. One of these lives has a future, and one of them does no
20:50.22andrecastelocya guys be back in a while :D :D
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21:03.40hippieindamakin8andrecastelo congrats :)
21:04.16hippieindamakin8so brlcad so this project is still free aint it ?
21:04.27brlcadalways is and will be
21:04.27alex_jonihow do you mean still?
21:04.40brlcadopen source ftw
21:04.43hippieindamakin8:)
21:04.47yukonbobw00t
21:05.08brlcadneeds to stop saying ftw so much
21:05.12brlcadless ftw, ftw!
21:05.23alex_jonihaha ftw
21:05.36hippieindamakin8cya guys.. time to get back to sleep :) shall keep interacting with u guys
21:05.57yukonbobheh... /me thinks 'ftw' used to be a punk "fsck the world", and I also know it as a bicycle builder "Frank the Welder"
21:07.00yukonbobhttp://www.frankthewelder.com/
21:21.26CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30751 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Eliminate invalid arb8 face creation in tread.
21:22.12``Erikbrlcad ftl :(
21:22.15``Erik:D
21:22.32``Erik/t i can has gsoc?
21:25.41CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30752 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: added more wdb arb functions
21:26.36``Erik dave was asking about the big honkin' functab early :/ hope he doesn't try to muck with it too much
21:29.34CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30753 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/view.c: Mods to set the byte offsets of view_parse at run time. Windows can't handle initializing this struct with variables that live in a library.
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22:01.53CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30754 10/brlcad/trunk/db/ (Makefile.am pinewood.asc): Add simple pinewood car example.
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22:34.42andrecastelohi everyone :D
22:34.53``Erikgreetings
22:35.20andrecastelohey ``Erik :D
22:37.04andrecastelo``Erik: so, how many students did you guys take ?
22:37.15``Erik4
22:38.02brlcadif you're all successful, maybe some of you can be mentors next year and we can accept more slots
22:38.13``Erikhttp://code.google.com/soc/2008/brl/about.html
22:38.14brlcadand of course you better all be successful ...
22:38.16brlcadshakes fist
22:38.22brlcad:)
22:38.43``Erikyeah, brlcad benches like 3 fiats, don't make him punch holes through you O.o
22:40.02andrecastelois afraid
22:40.15andrecasteloactually i'm quite happy, not afraid at all lol
22:40.57andrecasteloseriously now, i'll do my best to complete the project
22:41.09andrecasteloand i have good expectations for this winter/summer :D
22:41.52``Erikhave you taken a good look around in src/rt ?
22:43.48andrecastelonot a really detailed one.. i've seen how you shoot rays and how you deal with hits and such
22:44.30andrecasteloalso i had to look into it when i was writing the patch, have seen viewarea.c and those files that make up rtarea
22:45.10andrecastelonext step is definitely getting familiar with src/rt code
22:47.22andrecastelo``Erik: anything in particular you want me to study ?
22:48.47``Erikprobably how the lighting models work
22:49.40andrecastelohm ok
22:49.58``Erikphoton mapping has a piece in rt as well as liboptical, and I think brlcad would like to see mlt all in src/rt/
22:50.35andrecasteloalright
22:50.50andrecastelodo you want me to set up a blog or something like it ?
22:58.47brlcadandrecastelo: you should be looking in src/rt as well as src/adrt/rise
22:59.55brlcadsrc/adrt/rise has a forward polygonal path-tracer (i.e. doesn't use librt, doesn't work with arbitrary/native brl-cad geometry) that might give some good insights
23:00.34brlcadandrecastelo: I'll send out a note about reporting requirements, but you're welcome to set up a blog regardless ;)
23:02.22andrecastelobrlcad: alright.. do you have any formal requirements regarding reports ?
23:02.47andrecasteloand i'll take a look at src/adrt/rise, thanks for the tip
23:12.51``Erikhrm, adrt is radically different than librt and rise hasn't worked for a while... d'no if that'd be so great to look at too much
23:13.35brlcadmore for just algorithmic example of forward path tracing
23:13.53brlcadnot as a functional example
23:19.44hippieindamakin8hey andrecastelo congrats
23:20.04andrecastelohippieindamakin8: thanks man :D what about you ?
23:20.17hippieindamakin8mhmm no :)
23:20.41andrecastelohippieindamakin8: sorry to hear that :( did you apply to any other org ?
23:21.19hippieindamakin8no just this.. no problems i ll get more familiar with the distro and apply again :)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080422

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080422

00:40.53poolioheh, I found something on digg I found interesting: http://flickr.com/photos/kielbryant/857238875/sizes/l/
01:10.50hippieindamakin8cool man :)
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01:49.08``Erikhey, a bzflag release
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03:19.57starseeker_homemust resist the time munching pull of new bzflag release...
03:59.18brlcadbzflag 2.0.10 was released back in november
03:59.28brlcadsomeone just finally got around to updating freshmeat
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06:22.21brlcadstarseek1r: should set the pinecar title to something useful :)
06:54.15CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30755 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: cliff added a new pinewood boxcar example geometry database, modeled during dwayne kregel's surviac/survice brl-cad training course.
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09:31.49mafmhallo
09:40.07brlcadhowdy mafm!
09:40.10d_rossberghallo mafm
09:40.10brlcadcongratulations
09:41.27mafmthank you :)
09:42.13mafmI'm happy from andrecastelo too, it was me who told him to try another orgs like this one
09:45.44mafmthere's a small mistake in the announcement of your website though
09:46.07mafm"Now in its fourth year running, the Google Summer of Code has brought together over 1500 students and 2000 mentors from 90 countries worldwide to open source software development"
09:46.55brlcadhm?
09:47.00mafm"official" blog says: "Today we're pleased to let you know that we're funding 1125 student developers, almost 25% more students than last year"
09:47.47brlcad"has brought" .. those are the stats through last  year
09:48.34brlcadso after this year, it'd read something like "over 2600 students"
09:48.48mafmoh, you mean applicants?
09:49.10brlcadnot really, mean students
09:49.54mafmbrr, need a coffe really, now I understood
09:52.24brlcadstudents participating each year is something like 250, 500, 750, and 1125 for 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 respectively
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09:55.16mafmlast year was more than 800 says the blog, but yep, more or less
09:55.49mafmthis year the t-shirt is much better, no wonder the increase in applicants :P :)
09:59.33brlcadyeah, those were "minimums"
10:00.37brlcadso the next step for all students is to add your project descriptions to a non-user page on the wiki
10:01.07brlcadsomething not in the first-person, but that talks about it as a design/plan
10:01.44brlcadshouldn't include your personal details that were in the apps (though you're more than welcome to put those on a user page)
10:05.57mafmoki
10:06.33mafmon other news netcrafts confirms it -- my laptop is dying :[
10:37.32CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30756 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/ (5911 files in 495 dirs): massive merge of HEAD to STABLE, syncing changes through revision 28909 to 30747 in preparation for 7.12.2 release.
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10:57.46mafmwhat does the BRL in BRL-CAD mean? B* Research Laboratory?
11:01.58brlcadBallistic
11:02.01CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30757 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs): update version to 7.12.2 and begin release, tagging from trunk since the merge isn't as well-tested
11:03.24``Erikhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_Research_Laboratory
11:12.17CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30758 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (archer/archer.bat mged/mged.bat util/rtwizard.bat): Update the BRL-CAD version from 7.12.1 to 7.12.2
11:16.15mafmoh I see
11:16.41CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30759 10/brlcad/trunk/ChangeLog: update changelog to set of changes since 7.12.0
11:17.51mafmback in a bit
11:20.46CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30760 10/brlcad/tags/rel-7-12-2/: tag release 7.12.2
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12:32.26CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30761 10/brlcad/trunk/db/pinewood.asc: Add more useful database title for pinewood car.
12:40.59CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30762 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/tedit.c: Revert back to using newline on Windows.
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13:04.12CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30763 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: damnits. FreeBSD needs sys/types.h before the shm headers
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14:17.57brlcaddamn
14:17.58brlcadr29777 | brlcad | 2007-12-17 18:06:59 -0500 (Mon, 17 Dec 2007) | 2 lines
14:18.07brlcaduse c99 fmax instead of max macro, might need configure support
14:18.37brlcadgrrs
14:18.50*** join/#brlcad kwizart (n=kwizart@fedora/kwizart)
14:20.25kwizarthello all !
14:21.11kwizarti'm 'still' trying to package brlcad for Fedora... get it to compile by mged fails
14:21.13brlcadhello kwizart
14:21.28brlcadwas just talking about fedora earlier today kwizart
14:21.37brlcadwhat's the error?
14:21.50kwizart*** buffer overflow detected ***: mged terminated
14:22.26kwizarthttp://pastebin.ca/993251
14:22.35kwizarthere is a more complete log...
14:23.04kwizartthe /lib64/libc.so.6(__fortify_fail+0x32)[0x308d4ea362] make me wonder something related with CFLAGS used...
14:23.13mafmkwizart: were you the one trying to package aqsis a while ago, too?
14:24.03kwizartyep (with succed as aqsis is now in Fedora for a about year now)
14:24.06kwizartPixie also
14:24.10mafm:)
14:24.17mafmyour name sounded familiar
14:25.37kwizart:)
14:26.02mafmbrlcad: what's the problem with that commit r29777?
14:26.04kwizartthis patch would fix pkg_config support: http://pastebin.ca/993256
14:26.18brlcadkwizart: is that the latest sources?
14:26.38brlcadthere was a bug in bu_brlcad_data that was fixed some time ago, should be in 7.12.0+
14:26.39kwizartactually it is not accurate as x11 xi etc are optionnals
14:26.49kwizarti have 7.12.0
14:27.01kwizart"vanilla" (with some patches)
14:27.23brlcadmafm: nothing really, just that is what broke old bsd builds .. they don't have a couple c99 math funcs
14:27.45mafmops :)
14:28.11brlcadkwizart: that's really odd .. lemme see if I can find anything related with a visual scan
14:29.52brlcadkwizart: how long is your pwd?
14:30.05kwizartoups you are about to relase 7.12.2 ...
14:30.06kwizartpwd
14:30.11kwizarthow can i check ?
14:30.21brlcadpwd | wc
14:30.33brlcadfirst number
14:31.01brlcadI think I see the problem
14:31.04kwizart1       1      47
14:31.27brlcader, thx.. it was the 3rd number anyways :)
14:33.27``Erikwc -c, pheer
14:39.44brlcadkwizart: what does your line 602 look like in src/libbu/brlcad_path.c
14:39.52brlcadfind this line:    snprintf(path, (size_t)MAXPATHLEN, "share/brlcad/%s", brlcad_version());
14:40.17brlcadchange it to snprintf(path, 64, "share/brlcad/%s", brlcad_version());
14:41.58kwizart<PROTECTED>
14:42.40CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30764 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Change name creation of primitives and combinations to make it easier to avoid name collision when importing different tire models to 1 database
14:42.59kwizartactually i'm using /usr/share/brlcad (unversionned)
14:43.43kwizartBRLCAD_ROOT is /usr (yes i now i'm a bad boy that don't listen what configure tells)
14:44.28kwizartbut librt seems a big problem actually i think it could be solved using this patche :
14:44.31kwizart-e
14:45.14kwizarthttp://pastebin.ca/993276
14:50.45``Erikexcept we have third party consumers that explicitely link to librt.so and will not change :/
14:52.10brlcadnot that we'd really want to either
14:52.13brlcadwe predate the linux lib by nearly a decade
14:52.19brlcadand it's a deprecated/obsolete library
14:52.38brlcadmost distros have stopped shipping it
14:52.42kwizartyep but still available on most system...
14:53.04brlcads/most/some/ :)
14:53.16``Erikwhere 'some' is a subset of linux only, not most os's
14:53.18``Erik:D
14:53.24brlcadkwizart: I'm confused by your snprintf reply -- does that mean you don't have the line I pasted?
14:53.30kwizartanyway if your third part consumers use pkg-config (rt.pc) that will be quiet
14:53.41``Erikthey don't, they use, uh, xmkmf/imake
14:54.08``Erikwith hard linking all through all their Imakefile's
14:54.33brlcadthere are lots of closed source codes that link to our libs and rarely ever change (and their groups get pissed off / confused if anything changes)
14:55.00``Erikwe're pushing to get everyone using better approaches, but we get our paychecks to make BRL-CAD work with their software
14:55.23brlcadthey're still not the primary reason imho
14:55.35brlcadit's wrong, it's part of brl-cad's identity
14:55.50brlcadthat's are core library
14:56.00brlcads/are/our/
14:58.51kwizarto my bad, i've pasted the line 62 instead of 602
15:00.55brlcadeven better, do you see the declaration for path around 561?
15:00.58brlcad<PROTECTED>
15:01.11mafmdo the core devels still work for BRL/ARL ?
15:01.14brlcadchange that 64 to MAXPATHLEN
15:01.17brlcadmafm: some do
15:02.18brlcadBRL -- no, BRL "went away" nearly 15 years ago, absorbed into ARL
15:02.19mafmso who're the other "paycheckers"? engineering companies and the like?
15:02.42clock_also want a BRL-CAD payroll
15:02.57brlcadvariety of folks, different disciplines
15:03.16brlcadpredominantly cares about the open source side of things regardless, that's where the cool stuff happens ;)
15:03.40clock_brlcad: so you believe in the coolness of open source?
15:03.48``Erikmuch prefers the open source side, too, but has a mortgage and kinda likes to eat :)
15:03.49brlcadwhole-heartedly
15:04.09clock_I believe as well that's why I make my own open source projects
15:04.33clock_I believe open source programs are like wild animals
15:04.39clock_closed sources are like captive animals
15:04.43brlcadit's why I spent 5+ years getting BRL-CAD open sourced
15:05.05clock_the wild animals can have sex with whomever they find the fittest and create new offsprings
15:05.32clock_so not it's for example like BRL-CAD + Ronja = more clear instructions for Ronja users
15:06.01clock_wild animals do what they want, captive animals do what the ZOO staff wants.
15:06.15clock_open source projects evolve how they want, closed source evolve how financial managers dictate.
15:06.37``Erikthinks real life is a hair more complicated
15:08.25mafmagrees :D
15:09.35mafmso then how's BRL-CAD "board of directors"? kind of Linux? with or without the "Benevolent Dictator"?
15:09.59clock_apparently the top person is not as ignorant as Torvalds
15:10.10clock_because if I point out a bug they fix it usually quickly and competently
15:10.33``Erikdepends on who you ask
15:11.48``Eriksome people think it's a handful of gov't mgmrs, reality is more like brlcad is the dictator who gets some pressure from pointy haired folk, I think
15:13.00clock_has anyone done a vulnerability analysis of apointy haired boss
15:13.32kwizartrebuild
15:14.46clock_I have a crush on a very cute intelligent chemist
15:15.07kwizartabout the librt problem... i don't think i can prevent from this move for F-9 but i will raise the issue to the glibc maintainer, maybe we could have something different (if doable) for RHEL6. But seems unprobable as RHEL6 is supposed to be based on F-9
15:15.11clock_Could I impress him by making some models of molecules using CSG in BRL-CAD and then rendering a video of rotating molecule as two 3D images?
15:15.33clock_I guess if I make spheres of various colours and then subtract them so they don't overlap that whould suffice
15:16.52clock_has anyone done that, transferring molecule models into a CSG modelling program?
15:17.07clock_What I seen (rasmol) the pictures were very pixeley and triangley
15:17.12mafmhmm
15:17.19clock_BRL-CAD models perfect spheres
15:17.46mafmprobably you can do that
15:17.59mafmit should be possible to create that programatically even
15:18.15mafmif it's composed only of primitives (spheres, cylinders, etC)
15:18.29clock_just overlapping coloured spheres
15:20.32``Erikheh, or get experimental and try the metaball primitive O:-)
15:32.12CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30765 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: fix a bad snprintf that was being fed an 'n' much longer than the string being printed into. instead of 64, use MAXPATHLEN. use define elsewhere to make sure the rest are consistent.
15:33.21kwizart^^ yep indeed it works !
15:33.38clock_metaball is those two balls of possibly differing size connected by a cone?
15:34.32brlcadmafm: you have read HACKING, right? :)  benevolent meritocracy .. with some very influential (and paying) users in the community (e.g. ARL)
15:34.54mafmI was in the process of doing it, but got distracted a while ago
15:35.27brlcadkwizart: if you're going to do that for librt, you should also probably do it for libbn and libbu -- they're just as likely to conflict
15:36.43kwizartyep but i haven't found any libbn.so or libbu.so on my system, so they shoudln't conflict
15:36.51brlcadk
15:36.51kwizartwhere are they supposed to be ?
15:36.58kwizartor come from ?
15:37.04brlcadwhat do you mean?
15:37.12brlcadsrc/libbu src/libbn
15:37.35brlcadthey're two other core libraries to brl-cad
15:37.39kwizartwhat package may provide libbn or libbu other than brlcad ?
15:39.06brlcadah, I don't remember the details -- there's a libbn that's a bayesian network lib, libbu is more rare but I *think* openssh had a private internal lib named libbu at one point
15:39.26brlcadthere's also another guy with a tiny/pet librt iirc
15:40.03brlcadkwizart: if you can, try out latest head file for brlcad_path.c  .. see if that works -- if it does, I can make a patch file for you
15:40.24brlcador you can just use that one-liner
15:40.42kwizartbrlcad, yep it works ^^
15:40.46brlcadokay, cool
15:40.53brlcadruns off to lunch!
15:48.33mafmhmm, that #define is a bit strange... why would you want a larger space than MAXPATHLEN? can't that be the maximum allowed for a filesystem in example?
15:49.54*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@77.237.101.60)
16:17.31*** part/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141231.customer.alfanett.no)
16:29.37yukonbobmorning cadheads
16:32.52mafmhey :)
16:58.08``Erikand then the racoon gave me rabies
17:31.32CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30766 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/3dm/3dm-g.cpp: cannot assume a fresh declaration defaults to NULL
17:54.08CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30767 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/temp.c: remove the file pointer from the atexit cleanup crap. linux is/was crashing on a double fclose. now it just keeps track of the descriptor and closes that instead. (sean did this)
17:59.37kwizarthum, there is something wrong with xorg libaries detection
17:59.38kwizart:
17:59.40kwizart:X_CFLAGS =  -Iyes/include
18:00.03kwizartX_LIBS =   -Lyes/lib -lX11 -lX11 -lXext -lXi
18:00.33kwizartX_PREFIX=''
18:00.49kwizartwhereas it should be -I/usr/include
18:01.04kwizartand -L/usr/lib64 (on 64bit system)
18:01.07kwizartmutlilibs
18:04.42``Erikdid you do something like --with-x11=yes instead of --with-x11=/usr ?
18:05.07kwizart--with-x11 ?
18:05.18``ErikI guess that means "no" :)
18:06.30kwizartnope indeed, but i don't know where is set the lib subdirectory then...
18:07.43CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30768 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/temp.c: oops, don't commit debug code .. bad sean, no donut
18:09.13kwizartfor bc_dir in "$ac_x_libraries" `echo "$ac_x_includes $ac_x_header_dirs" |
18:09.13kwizartsed s/include/lib/g` ; do
18:09.43kwizartand x_libraries="$bc_with_x11_val/lib"
18:11.15mafmheading home now, see you tomorrow :)
18:11.53mafmbye
18:12.42CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30769 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/ (main.c slave.c slave.h): s/isst/adrt/g (unifying things)
18:42.17``Erik*gardengardengarden*
18:46.35CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30770 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: explain why there is a +64 on the buffer size
19:06.45CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30771 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Working towards being able to use extruded sketches for tread patterns.
19:08.59CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30772 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (57 files in 10 dirs): remove author info, in complience with new code standards
19:10.30CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30773 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Put factor of two in where needed. note - need to examine rotation points and subtractions to eliminate flaws.
19:12.06CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30774 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (6 files in 3 dirs): remove author info, in complience with new code standards
19:24.43CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30775 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/ (load.c load.h slave.c slave.h): carry back return values (for future robustness/persistence fixes). Cuddle braces.
19:29.34CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30776 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Can't use the cutting shapes in this case - they don't repair the cut.
19:33.05yukonbobwin 3
19:33.10brlcadno!
19:33.25yukonbob:)
19:33.36``ErikO.o
19:34.17``Eriknotes that 7.12.2 tarball is still not there
19:36.23CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30777 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: users keep trying to use --with-x11 without providing a path, so prevent 'yes' getting shoved into the include dir paths. let it autodetect.
19:38.26brlcad``Erik: yeah, bob found a nasty during extra testing today, retesting/retagging since it didn't go up
19:39.46``Erikaight
19:43.04brlcadkwizart: that should be a fix for --with-x11 (though you really don't want to use that without a path)
19:43.24brlcadkwizart: so what's remaining with the fedora build?
19:44.33``Erikwonders if it'd be possible to have the svn revision number go somewhere into the install O.o
19:44.35kwizartwell... probably many things as i'm just testing with F-8 (x86_64 )
19:44.58kwizartand i expect i will need some patch with gcc43 and F-9
19:45.32kwizartbut for patches i'm using now:
19:46.03kwizartas i need to re-run autotools, there is a problem with compiler.m4
19:46.18kwizarthttp://pastebin.ca/993667
19:46.53kwizarti saw you solved this differently in svn - but wasn't working... i don't know if both def functions are needed thought..
19:47.34kwizartbecause both gcc and g++ are tested with the same macros in my view
19:48.45kwizarti also need to export theses value:
19:48.45kwizarthttp://pastebin.ca/993673
19:48.51brlcadyeah, it doesn't need to call exit()
19:48.56kwizartas they are not well detected by configure
19:49.06brlcadjust turn exit() into return 0 and you don't need headers
19:49.50kwizartsed -i -e 's|BLT=""|BLT="-L%{_libdir}/blt2.4/ -lBLT24"|' configure.ac
19:49.53brlcadelse it wants stdlib.h, not stdio.h
19:49.56kwizartsed -i -e 's|bc_with_x11_val/lib|bc_with_x11_val/%{_lib}|' configure.ac
19:49.58*** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@wireless-199-157.uchicago.edu)
19:51.02brlcadif you really need to export all of those, then other places in the code are failing :)
19:51.15CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30778 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Workaround for some of the sketch tread issues - rotation handling still should be examined.
19:52.42kwizarti'm also using this patch between configure and make:
19:52.43kwizarthttp://pastebin.ca/993681
19:53.02brlcadkwizart: does fedora have an itclConfig.sh installed?
19:53.41kwizartsh %{_libdir}/itclConfig.sh (runned before configure but without effect)
19:54.18brlcadright, system incrTcl is still a problem with path searching
19:54.29kwizarthttp://pastebin.ca/993688
19:54.33brlcadi got tcl and tk working, but not incr yet because I ran into a snag with os x
19:54.47brlcadthere's a itclConfig.sh there along with the libs, but no header files
19:54.49kwizarti think the ictk value wasn't present in configure.ac
19:55.43brlcadso it's in /usr/lib64/libitcl3.3.so ?
19:56.18kwizart-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 110552 déc 20 03:22 /usr/lib64/libitcl3.3.so
19:56.24kwizarton F-8 case - yes
19:57.47kwizarti think there where some improvements with F-9 and tcl/tk 8.5 because some rpm macros was defined
19:59.09kwizarthttp://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Tcl
19:59.31brlcadso that's a valid libitclConfig.sh, we could actually use that for your case to make the search lookups work
20:00.20CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30779 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/ (load.c slave.c): hoist prep out into the main message handler
20:02.51CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30780 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: Add note about surface normal lighting not working with -k option
20:04.03brlcadkwizart: the build presumably completes now though?
20:04.14brlcadas does "make benchmark" and "make test" ?
20:06.31kwizartis testing with make benchmark and make test
20:07.35brlcadthey should loudly declare any failures as WRONG or FAILED
20:17.35*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.68.105)
20:18.32andrecastelohi everyone
20:18.34andrecastelohey ``Erik
20:18.44brlcadhowdy andrecastelo
20:18.50andrecastelohey brlcad
20:22.04CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30781 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/interact.c: fmax() is c99 but several of the BSDs don't provide it, so macrofy
20:24.30``Erikafternoon, andre
20:25.01``Erikdid not know about F3 O.o :D
20:29.38brlcadreally?
20:29.49brlcadit's right next to F2 .. right before F4
20:31.25*** join/#brlcad kwizart_ (n=kwizart@did75-14-82-236-19-114.fbx.proxad.net)
20:41.30``Eriktoys aren't cool if no one else can play with them
20:41.58CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30782 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: add some initial help information for us clueless folk
20:46.35CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30783 10/brlcad/tags/rel-7-12-2/: revert the tag since we haven't posted source tarballs yet. bob found an mged crash-on-exit bug related to temp files and text editing, also fixed bsd build and maybe even made fedora build a smidgen easier.
20:49.34*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54875FED.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:56.38starseek1r``Erik : it's not ready yet ;-)
20:59.42``Erikyeah, but I still wanted to play ;D
21:21.44kwizartarf! finally uploaded the src.rpm, doing a public scratch build here:
21:21.44kwizarthttp://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=576324
21:22.11kwizart(not started yet)
21:22.47kwizartquite a big queue
21:26.06CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30784 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 5 dirs): flatten makefile structure
21:32.25CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30785 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/bench/Makefile.am: disable this explicitely and put files in EXTRA_DIST
21:34.37CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30786 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/Makefile.am: simplify (removing compile-time logic)
21:35.00CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30787 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/main.c: initial stub for siginfo/siguser
21:38.01CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30788 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: remove ADRT/SDL checks
21:38.29CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30789 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/Makefile.am: chuck in a space to keep the file regular
21:38.45``Erik*spaz8
21:39.27brlcadgood gravy!
21:39.55``Erik*commitcommitcommit* woops, quittin' time *run* :D
21:41.20``Erikdangit, forgot I had to run distcheck from an --enable-all still :/
21:41.21brlcadi leave for an hour and all commit hell breaks loose :)
21:42.24``Erikwhat? it's been a while since I haven't been too busy with meetings and bs! so, y'know, I kinda covered the room O.o careful, ther'es some dripping off the ceiling
21:45.04brlcadyeah, it's all cool
21:45.17brlcadlooks build-benign anyways (*crosses fingers*)
21:45.41``Erikuhm, some of the adrt/ makefile stuff might be risky, running distcheck in an --enable-all now...
21:46.20``Erikflattening out the build infrastructure in there, taking out a lot of the conditionals, etc
21:48.32``Erikpoop, mine failed in I think misc/win32-msvc/Dll
21:49.19``Erikwonder if it was actually a lingering aPrep/Makefile.in
21:49.55brlcadsounds like a stale autogen.sh-need'in build
21:50.10brlcadaPrep was deleted
21:50.31``Erikyeah, this was just lingering stuff... full cycle time
21:52.40``Erikohhhh, had another machine building that got pukey on a missing automake-1.10
21:52.53``Eriksomewhere in misc/
22:44.00``Erikheh
22:44.57``Erik<-- figured he'd get back to see complaints about how he royally pooched the dist, not complete silence :D
22:47.06brlcaddoesn't want to test
22:47.19``Erikhehehe
22:47.25``ErikI had a distcheck running when I left
22:48.05``Erikfamily guy is disturbingly twisted O.o :D ah lahk it
22:48.21yukonbobfamily guy ftw!
22:49.18yukonbobWhat am I supposed to do with all my good ideas? Fill a tub and wash myself with them? Because that's what soap is for.
22:49.53``ErikO.o eh?
22:50.27``Erik(that's an american eh, not a canadian eh, which I still kinda thing might be an abuse of aye)
22:50.28yukonbob^-- Peter to Louis when Peter became producer of her stage production
22:50.38``Erikoh
22:50.40``Eriklois
22:50.46``Erikuh, the king and I
22:50.50``Erik:)
22:51.18yukonbobright, that's the one
22:53.44``Eriky'know, googles gsoc web apps kinda bite
23:07.13andrecastelohey guys :D
23:07.53andrecastelo``Erik: why's that ?
23:08.33``Erikcfs issues
23:09.14andrecastelocfs ?
23:09.58``Erikcan't find... stuff...
23:11.29andrecastelohehehe
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080423

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080423

00:54.44*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo_ (n=chatzill@189.71.37.27)
01:00.16andrecastelo_andrecastelo: drop it already!!
03:31.35*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
03:45.37starseeker_home``Erik, adrt is busted - complaint about SIGINFO being undeclared
04:40.18CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30790 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Add second test extrusion, tweak help command behavior (switch back to a plain tire command generating default tire in tire.g)
07:04.40*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
07:14.59brlcadyawns
07:16.12clock_brlcad: I haven't shown my latest 3D creation
07:16.21clock_brlcad: you know what a space frame is?
07:17.25brlcadsure, it hangs on a wall and holds a pretty picture of space
07:17.32clock_no :)
07:18.05clock_It's like you want a stiff and light construction of a body so you fill the body basically with tetrahedra made of sticks and that's how Stansted Airport is built and also looks like those constructions on satellites
07:18.09clock_I made a space frame CRT holder
07:18.50clock_http://images.twibright.com/tns/21a9.html
07:18.54clock_I want to open source it
07:19.34clock_For 21'' CRT. I bought a 21'' CRT for 20$ fully functional great picture because I like the picture it has better colours and better black level than LCD also faster reaction and more even picture surface
07:19.59clock_But it's big and 30kg that's why I had to make a wall holder because it couldn't fit on a desk.
07:21.22brlcadheh
07:21.43brlcadkinda frankenteinish joint welding there
07:23.24brlcadi'd expect the weak points wouldn't be the frame itself but the connections on the wall
07:23.26clock_lol yeah can you weld better?
07:23.39clock_like the plugs could get ripped off the wall?
07:23.55brlcadyep
07:24.09clock_my father once installed an antenna on plugs like that and it got ripped off by a wind
07:24.22clock_But a properly installed plug holds like hell
07:24.43clock_you have a prescribed hole diameter and screw diameter and length
07:24.49clock_I held to all these parameters
07:25.05clock_it's half inch holes 70mm deep
07:25.24brlcadit's one of those things though, that you never really know until you apply enough pressure to find the breaking point, but by then it's too late :)
07:25.41clock_but what should break, the brick?
07:26.01clock_and the holder has like a big base that means the moment is not large
07:26.14clock_if the plugs were close the prying action would be much stronger
07:26.16brlcadthe brick, the connection to the brick
07:26.32clock_frankensteinish welding haha I wanted to make sure it's not the welds that break
07:26.41brlcadcan you hang from it?
07:26.57clock_I did a similar holder for Ronja and there I could hang from it
07:27.04clock_the base and the plugs were the same size
07:27.40clock_I weight 75kg
07:27.50brlcadif you can provide about 5x the load and it easily holds, then sustaining a 30kg load shouldn't be too bad
07:27.52clock_The Ronja weights max. 15kg and the monitor 30kg
07:28.30clock_and it's clever made 2 plugs for tension and 1 for compression
07:28.41clock_if it were the other way the rating would be half because the tension is critical
07:50.07brlcad<PROTECTED>
07:50.10brlcad<PROTECTED>
07:50.13brlcadhehe
08:25.00CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30791 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/main.c: make sure SIGUSR1 and SIGINFO are available first
08:46.14*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-079-218.pools.arcor-ip.net)
10:05.01*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
10:07.36mafmhi
10:08.10clock_brlcad: what's a penguinista cad do you mean BRL-CAD?
10:09.31mafmBRL-CAD -- the penguinista CAD! at least it'll be Cool!
10:29.11brlcadmafm: heh
10:29.55brlcadclock_: it was someone's comment about the army releaseing brlc-ad as open source
10:35.07clock_I don't think penguinista cad is cool for me it sounds infantile
10:35.15clock_BRL-CAD is a child of the army
10:36.51mafm:P
10:38.03mafmI guess that the -ista end has something to do with common names given in latin-american countries to movements
10:38.30mafmapart from that, I was only joking with "penguin - cool" :P
10:38.45brlcadfound the vader comment more funny
10:39.00brlcad"it's kind of like darth vader bringing you cookies and a birthday present."
10:39.15mafmwhere's that comment?
10:39.26brlcadit was in a channel log elsewhere
10:39.33brlcadjust someone chatting briefly about brl-cad
10:39.37mafmor what's referring to, to BRL-CAD as well? :D
10:39.47mafmit's funny yep
10:40.06brlcadthat having the army/gov release brl-cad as open source was kinda like that :)
10:40.27mafmMay the Source Be with You!
10:40.40brlcadUse the Source, Luke!
10:40.58mafmbtw reading wikipedia I found that ENIAC was also developed at/for BRL
10:41.06brlcadyep
10:42.31mafmcrazy army
10:42.56mafmit's starts like that, and it ends in teens showing boobs in the intertubez!
10:43.28clock_I want army boys showing their muscled bodies!
10:43.44clock_brlcad: do you have a muscled body?
10:44.01brlcadno comment
10:44.05mafm:D
10:44.24brlcadthe intarwebs caters to everyone ;)
10:45.06mafmI mean that it's funny how inventions turn to be used for completely unexpected things
10:45.22mafmthat probably the creators are against
10:45.36brlcadyeah usually :)
10:46.20mafmthere was a series of old documentaries of BBC with similar theme, called Connections
10:47.48clock_You know how to solve rape by soldiers?
10:48.05mafmhmm?
10:48.05clock_Make all soldiers to train their bodies so attractive that all the rape becomes consensual sex!
10:48.55mafmno need to go that far, somebody already invented the "gay bomb"
10:49.06clock_thats?
10:49.21mafmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_bomb
10:49.45mafmyou release the bomb and soldiers start "loving" each other
10:51.27clock_Acetamidohexanoyl]amino}-9-benzyl- 6-(3-carbamimidamidopropyl)-12- (1H-imidazol-5-ylmethyl)-3-(1H-indol- 3-ylmethyl)-2,5,8,11,14,17-hexaoxo- 1,4,7,10,13,18-hexaazacyclotricosane -23-carboxylic acid
10:53.13mafmhey, that's patented information, you punk!
11:11.28mafmbrlcad: UTC (+ 1 now, summer time) :D
11:36.29brlcadnoticed :)
12:24.15*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.68.185)
12:24.29andrecastelogood morning everyone
12:24.39andrecastelohey brlcad , ``Erik  :D
12:24.42andrecastelosup mafm, congratulations :D
12:25.04mafmmorning andrecastelo
12:25.08mafmsame for you
12:25.09brlcadhowdy andrecastelo, g'morning :)
12:25.32mafmandrecastelo: now I want 10% of your payments, I'm a good adviser :P
12:25.53andrecastelomafm: yep, thanks indeed :D
12:27.54brlcadheh
12:28.04brlcadoh, mafm .. i have something for you
12:28.13brlcaduploads
12:28.49mafmscared
12:32.07brlcaddo you have keynote?
12:33.13mafmdon't even know what's that
12:33.44brlcadwhat OS do you work on?
12:33.50mafmDebian
12:34.33brlcadah, okay
12:38.51mafmso?
12:39.29brlcadtrying to find the version that has the explanation audio
12:40.29brlcadbasically, it's by one of the other cad devs as a prototype design for a new graphical integrated operating environment
12:41.19brlcadhe prepared a tutorial presentation that walks through a brief interaction example -- it's not specific to CAD, but most of the interaction aspects and basic structure are still relevant
12:41.23brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/design/gui/ioe_proto.html
12:41.31starseeker_homegrabs adrt fix and resumes building...
12:41.45brlcadretags before people start committing again
12:42.35starseeker_homenever fails, does it - make a tag and the floodgates open...
12:44.31CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30792 10/brlcad/tags/rel-7-12-2/: (re)tag the 7.12.2 release
12:46.55clock_brlcad: GUI with an audio help?
12:47.10brlcadexplains the driving concepts
12:47.30brlcadit's pretty intuitive as it is, but there are some fundamental differences
12:47.55clock_what about deaf people and people who have no audio output?
12:48.34mafmbrlcad: it's some presentation to make a flier, or Konqueror is making strange things?
12:49.00brlcadmafm: neither
12:49.27brlcadit's an *interaction* example .. ignore the particular task example
12:50.00mafmI can't hear anything btw, maybe I should try firefox
12:51.22brlcadthere is no audio in that version
12:51.33brlcadthat was my point .. i was trying to find a version that had audio
12:52.12brlcadotherwise, you can get a feel for it from each of the slides alone
12:52.43mafmoh, I thought that you had found the version with audio
13:07.17mafmso it's an example of what a GUI could do for a CAD program
13:07.35mafmis that from a Mac? :)
13:08.04brlcadit's an example of a GUI for really any working environment
13:08.46*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo_ (n=chatzill@189.71.68.185)
13:08.49brlcadit has many concepts that have fundamental usability implications
13:09.49mafmwb andrecastelo_
13:10.32mafmthe GUI is very clean, I like it
13:11.34brlcadit's a prototype that I'd really like to explore as a foundation for a new gui interface
13:12.13brlcadit gives several ideas for development directions, particularly w.r.t interaction
13:14.52brlcadyay, found audio version
13:21.43brlcadmafm: http://brlcad.org/design/gui/ioe_proto_final.mov
13:22.53brlcadthere is another version also uploaded that has some guided interaction if you are intereste
13:24.06brlcadit's about 17 minutes long with two or three interaction scenarios
13:25.43mafmgoody
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13:34.58mafmI think I'd better start putting this things in a wiki page
13:35.25mafmshoul I create it somewhere specifically, or with some namespace or what?
13:35.45brlcadhm
13:36.22brlcadwell if you didn't see the note yesterday, one of the first steps is to get all of you guys to migrate your proposals to a (non-user) wiki page as a design document
13:36.35brlcadwithout the personal information, not in first person, etc
13:36.58mafmyes, I saw that
13:37.01brlcadfor the gui concepts of IOE, you could have that as part of the design document or in a section by itself I'd think
13:37.09brlcadwhat do you think?
13:37.32mafmbut I'm not very familiar with mediawiki, and I don't know exactly what a personal page is, etc
13:37.52mafmalso I think that mediawiki can work with namespaces but you seem to use a plain structure
13:38.07brlcadevery user has a User:username wiki page
13:41.37brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Special:Listusers
13:42.33brlcadours are mostly unused, but just adding that caveat "just in case" .. welcome to put any progress/updates/info on your user page though
13:42.44brlcadin fact I'll be sending a note out later about that
13:49.02mafmall of you have it mostly empty, yep :)
13:51.01mafmso for the Project wiki page, any special namespace or convention?
13:52.18PrezKennedyi didnt know you were a bureaucrat brlcad
13:52.36mafmbtw, I see some Remi in your wiki but not in the SourceForge site?
13:53.20brlcadmafm: there's a template you can add, but otherwise no particular convention
13:53.31brlcadRemi?
13:55.05mafmit's one example...
13:55.26mafmI mean if there should be some coordination between those listings
13:55.55mafm"Remi" name caught my attention because I knew a guy called like that
13:57.19brlcadwhat sourceforge listing are you referring to?
13:58.55mafmhttp://sourceforge.net/project/memberlist.php?group_id=105292
14:03.11brlcadah, the sf.net users .. yeah, those are totally separate systems
14:03.38brlcadonly way to really coordinate them would be for users that register on the site to use their sf.net name (which they're perfectly able to do now)
14:03.54brlcadbut it still wouldn't coordinate passwords or anything
14:04.22*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@70.108.244.218)
14:05.42mafmyes, I know... anyway my perfectly unrememberable username is usually available in most places
14:06.04mafmso I tend to have same acronym everywhere :)
14:06.15brlcadit's pretty memorable to me :)
14:07.07*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@h-67-103-183-185.mclnva23.covad.net)
14:07.21mafmso maybe you're more acronym-capable than my workmates
14:07.25andrecastelo_brlcad: we should add our applications to the wiki and link to them from http://brlcad.org/wiki/Developer_Documents ?
14:07.31mafmthey can't remember my mail address ever
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14:18.00brlcadmafm: here's the template you can add: http://brlcad.org/wiki/Template:DesignDocument
14:19.03brlcadandrecastelo_: yeah, please do
14:23.42``Erikdoh, conflict, brlcad went and fixed it up before I got to it
14:24.08brlcadheh
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14:49.26andrecastelo_brlcad, ``Erik : http://brlcad.org/wiki/Metropolis_Light_Transport
14:50.17clock_Hehe Metropolis is a name of Ronja model
14:51.10clock_And Ronja works on the pronciple of light transport ;-)
14:52.15``Erikreads MLT wiki page
14:52.30``Erikum
14:52.44``Erikandre, have you ever modelled in BRL-CAD before?
14:53.01``Erikthinks a cornell box might be useful for MLT testing
14:53.26``Erikand a good thing to have in db/
14:53.42andrecastelo_``Erik: i tried once but to no success
14:54.14andrecastelo_``Erik: i agree, it might be really useful for testing
14:55.02``Erikhow about this, if you have a few minutes, dig up the exact measurements of the cornell box and give modelling it a shot, if you get stuck, just ask us :D otherwise, I'll eventually get around to doing it O.o
14:55.48andrecastelo_ok, i'll give it a shot :D
14:58.11``Erikgiven that it's extremely simple, has published accurate details, and still hits on several key newbie issues of BRL-CAD (regions, combinations, materials), I imagine it's a good place to start :)
14:58.32``Erikopposed to, say, a pen or toy mustang O.o :D
15:07.07clock_model the saint pauls cathedral
15:07.23clock_then you realize how unfinished the user interface is
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15:13.35brlcadthere's a cornell box in the distribution
15:13.41brlcaddb/cornell.g
15:14.16brlcadnot certain that it's actually accurate/correct, but it's there
15:19.08andrecastelo_well, at first look the geometry looks right.. and the distances seem to match http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/online/box/data.html
15:23.01clock_brlcad: actually, the Volume II discusses modelling goblet
15:23.13clock_without actually giving in any determinate dimensions
15:23.30clock_I think that's a very simple example and doesn't teaches much of what one really needs for serious work
15:24.01clock_Like all I do is entered exact numbers and complicated geomtry where things must perfectly match not just somehow overlap on the screen
15:39.57CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30793 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Add more shapes for prototype tread.
15:40.31brlcadclock_: what does that have to do with cornell.g ?
15:43.34clock_brlcad: nothing
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17:18.25``Erikheh, when did that get in there? there're a couple I don't remember O.o
17:18.49``Erikweird, '00, guess I just missed it
17:19.09CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30794 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: Mods to have the image location be returned as values between 0 and width or height minus 1. So if the width is 512, the range of values returned will be [0, 511].
17:32.34mafmhmm, I noticed that my mentor changed suddently?
17:46.07CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30795 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_wgl.c:
17:46.07CIA-20BRL-CAD: Mods to allow the user to query the pixel location and color. Also added code to
17:46.07CIA-20BRL-CAD: constrain the queried pixel location to values between 0 and the width or height
17:46.07CIA-20BRL-CAD: minus 1. For example, if the height is 512 the range of values for y would be
17:46.07CIA-20BRL-CAD: 0-511.
17:55.20mafmbye
17:57.07CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30796 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/config_win.h include/fb.h src/libfb/fb_log.c): If _WIN32, use bu_log in place of fb_log. This can easily revert back if/when fb_log becomes as flexible as bu_log.
18:00.36*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@217-162-110-144.dclient.hispeed.ch)
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18:42.11brlcadhowdy jdoliner
18:49.53CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30797 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS README include/conf/PATCH): source tarballs are uploaded, bump patch revision
18:52.07CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30798 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: clone and incr on the docket
20:23.19CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30799 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS:
20:23.19CIA-20BRL-CAD: talked to applin for a while and got some additional history. it's not clear
20:23.19CIA-20BRL-CAD: that earl actually wrote any code, but did contribute to algorithms and docs.
20:23.19CIA-20BRL-CAD: likewise, applin coded around 1982 (sometime before March 1983) before the code
20:23.19CIA-20BRL-CAD: was under revision control and then stopped shortly after (circa 1984/1985) so
20:23.21CIA-20BRL-CAD: he was BRL-only.
20:28.37CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30800 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS:
20:28.38CIA-20BRL-CAD: note that it first went into RCS in april 1984, but applin reminded me to check
20:28.38CIA-20BRL-CAD: out the original GED tech report (GED: AN INTERACTIVE SOLID MODELING SYSTEM FOR
20:28.38CIA-20BRL-CAD: VULNERABILITY ASSESSMENTS - ARBRL-TR-02480 - published March 1983) which indeed
20:28.38CIA-20BRL-CAD: did have additional tidbits. It says development began in 1980 and that ged
20:28.40CIA-20BRL-CAD: went into production use in January 1982.
20:30.15CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30801 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: earl weaver was there at the beginning, mark 1980 as start year
20:30.18``Erikhrm, it's too bad the early history isn't better preserved... jove in '83, then rt in '84 :/
20:31.25CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30802 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: gary kuehl was a BRLer
20:32.45brlcadyeah, keith was saying it was all managed manually, they'd give their snippets to mike, he'd rewrite them and organize
20:33.01brlcadkeith stopped coding shortly after it went into rcs
20:39.30CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30803 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Misc. cleanup and comments, added tread pattern count and tread depth as options.
20:39.32andrecastelo_since when do you guys code for brl-cad ?
20:40.01brlcadandrecastelo_: this year makes 10 years for me
20:40.44brlcadbut the project has certainly been going for quite a bit longer of course ;)
20:41.15andrecastelo_interesting! :D so you work in/with the u.s. army ?
20:43.20brlcadcool, I see you got the wiki page updated
20:44.04andrecastelo_yup, also made some improvements in the readability of the proposal
20:44.25andrecastelo_as in - moved some stuff from timeline to implementation
20:44.31andrecastelo_i think it is more clear this way
20:45.23brlcadcool, have to read through it again
20:50.27brlcadisn't sure you actually need the phong model with MLT, GI kinda takes over
20:53.37andrecastelo_the idea was to use the phong model to handle the reflection but i'm also not sure
20:54.14brlcadthat could get tricky
20:54.28brlcadliboptical assumes it's doing things a certain way
20:54.36brlcadyou might be able to avoid liboptical entirely
20:56.25andrecastelo_what about Bidirectional Reflectance Distribution Functions?
20:58.47andrecastelo_could they work ?
21:06.40brlcadphong is a brdf
21:06.49brlcadit's a simple algorithm
21:08.51``Erikthe phong song
21:13.11``Erikwonders if he gets to count his years haetus on "that damn project" towards his count O.o
21:15.08``Erikhiatus, damn my splling
21:19.11andrecastelo_brlcad: didn't know that.. but isn't phong exclusively for specular lighting ?
21:28.00brlcadandrecastelo_: nope, ambient + specular + diffuse components
21:28.19brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phong_shading
21:28.56brlcadbut how phong comes into play with a global illumination renderer and/or MLT is a different issue
21:30.30andrecastelo_why's that? i thought we could use phong in a ray_hit() function, to decide where to shoot the next ray
21:49.19andrecastelo_hey, regarding development procedures, how will it happen? patches will be sent in a time to time basis, will we work in a separate branch or in the trunk??
21:52.02brlcadtrunk ftw!
21:52.22brlcadpart of gsoc is learning to coordinate with the other devs as a new full-fledged dev ;)
21:52.48brlcadso a few small patches for the first few changes with your mentor and when they give me a thumbs up, you start committing directly
21:53.29CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30804 10/brlcad/branches/unlabeled-2.5.1/: i don't wanna look at it and neither does bob. and given E/ev have been rewritten several times, this original code probably just isn't worth it
21:53.54brlcadso if you did little patches now, you could/should have commit access even before gsoc coding begins
21:55.57andrecastelo_cool :D there are some projects that gives the branch for the student to work on and never joins it back together
21:56.43andrecastelo_speaking of patches, what about the center point one, did you manage to take a look to see if everything is ok and etc ?
22:54.31``Erikhiatus, damn my splling
22:54.42``Erikwoops
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080424

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080424

00:34.57*** join/#brlcad cosurgi (i=janek@irc.cool.waw.pl)
00:37.42brlcadandrecastelo_: I did start to look it over, there are two ahead of it, though :)
00:56.44*** join/#brlcad cosurgi (i=janek@irc.cool.waw.pl)
01:01.05andrecastelo_hm ok then :D
01:08.49yukonbobhello, cadheads
01:09.06andrecastelo_hey yukonbob
01:09.47CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30805 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Bob added support to query pixels in the wgl framebuffer similar to what is available for the ogl and X framebuffers
01:09.48brlcadhowdy yukonbob
01:13.39CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30806 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: Bob implemented support to mirror across a distance along a given axis in mged. technically he implemented it in 7.12.2 but it was left out of the release notes so mentioning it here
01:14.37CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30807 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: -Wfloat-equal is covered by the other todo for obliterating verbose compilation warnings
01:18.19CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30808 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: consistently refer to mged in lowercase on the individual news lines but uppercase in the english write-ups throughout the NEWS file.
01:21.30yukonbobnice to see lots of commit msgs, rev. bump :)
01:23.14brlcadlikes lots of frequent commits
01:23.57brlcadlike each commit to be "just one thing" with useful commit messages
01:27.46yukonbobof course, of course -- but some days have more than others -- today seems 'extra noticeable' to me... I'm always happy w/ BRL-CAD -- a bit extra-happy today, though.
01:27.49yukonbob<PROTECTED>
01:29.05brlcadtoo :)
01:29.28brlcadsuspects it'll get pretty noisy in here this summer :)
01:29.37brlcadand leading up to
01:29.53brlcadand hopefully after too! ;)
01:57.52yukonbobBring the Noise!!
02:19.32andrecastelo_guys
02:19.33andrecastelo_i'm out
02:19.35andrecastelo_good night
02:19.36andrecastelo_:D
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02:31.55CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30809 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: reword the intro header and footer for clarity
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10:22.53mafmhai
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12:35.41brlcadmafm: Fernández con acento o sin?
12:43.33brlcadMinuteElectron: would you happen to know why the contact page won't prompt a captcha?  I can't seem to get it to work :/
12:54.01mafmbrlcad: I tend to not use it
12:58.41brlcadk
12:59.41MinuteElectronbrlcad: Not off hand, but I'll look into it later today.
12:59.50brlcadmafm: does "New OpenGL GUI Framework for Modeling and Visualization" sound like a reasonable summary description?
13:00.07brlcadMinuteElectron: okay, cool .. thanks!  
13:00.52brlcadthey're turned on and work for other drupal forms (actually they only work exactly every other time ..) but just not for the contact form
13:01.03MinuteElectron=\
13:01.05brlcadthey do work cleanly for the wiki, though
13:01.06mafmbrlcad: what's that summary description for?
13:01.08MinuteElectronthat's very odd
13:02.00brlcadwondering if it's just "somehow" misconfigured drupal plugin -- can't imagine a plugin that popular having a bug that obvious, but who knows
13:02.23brlcadmafm: for the masses at large
13:02.44brlcadannouncement formulation
13:03.22brlcadexplaining what these projects are in more layman terms
13:03.53brlcadpacman87: yours is "Implementing Solid of Revolution and Sweep Primitives"
13:05.34brlcadmafm: in fact, I think it works even better as simply "New Framework for Modeling and Visualization"
13:07.12brlcadhm, or not -- never mind :)
13:10.38brlcadmafm: oh, also as you noticed yesterday, your mentor is now the esteemed 'Bob'
13:12.34brlcadhe's a really great guy that should be a good fit for evaluating what you're working on -- we still do group mentoring as much as possible for the technical aspects (i'm certainly always available to answer questions), but he'll be the point man for following your progress
13:13.23brlcadand of course, let me know if you have any questions or problems with your mentor (same goes for any of the gsocers)
13:28.07mafmbrlcad: "New GUI Framework for [Remote?] Modeling and Visualization" is fine I guess
13:34.25homovulgarishi mafm , brlcad :)
13:34.41brlcadhowdy homovulgaris
13:34.53brlcadah, right Dawn!
13:35.00brlcadisn't used to that nick :)
13:35.09homovulgaris:P
13:41.06homovulgarisi am pretty new to the channel :)
13:41.16homovulgarisso @brlcad is sean ?
13:41.19homovulgarismafm is manuelo ?
13:41.52homovulgaris*manuel i meant
13:42.19``Erikyes to both
13:45.01brlcad~seen johnranderson
13:45.01iboti haven't seen 'johnranderson', brlcad
13:45.07brlcadhm
13:46.01``Erik~seen daytona
13:46.02ibotdaytona <n=jra@c-68-55-36-65.hsd1.md.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 20d 11h 39m 28s ago, saying: 'prasad_: Hey, how's it going?'.
13:46.24``Erikhe had another modified variant he was in with :/ grep logs O.o
13:47.28brlcadyeah, that's what I was hunting for
13:47.34brlcaddaytona isn't registered to him
13:47.56brlcad~seen daytonajohn
13:47.57ibotdaytonajohn <n=jra@c-68-55-36-65.hsd1.md.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 14d 11h 51m 54s ago, saying: 'brlcad: good, I'll watch for it'.
13:48.27``Erikheh, beat me to it
13:48.59brlcad6 days ago according to nickserv
13:50.33``ErikI see him last here on apr 09
13:50.42``Erikish
14:07.18*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128544174.dsl.bell.ca)
14:09.14*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@70.108.244.218)
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14:26.31*** join/#brlcad kwizart (n=kwizart@fedora/kwizart)
14:26.34kwizartERROR: bad pointer x7fff04c190d0: s/b bu_ptbl(x7074626c), was Unknown_Magic(x2aaaaad156e8), file ptbl.c, line 72
14:27.27kwizartthis error occured when doing make test - lt-rt was blocked at /bin/sh ../regress/solids.sh ..
14:28.43kwizartactually i send a kill -9 as the process seemed to take much time (more than one hour) - but i don't know how much time would be needed anywya
14:29.35kwizart-> gqa.sh succeeded
14:29.36kwizart+++ gqa test complete.
14:29.45kwizartothers test seems to succeed
14:30.44kwizartok, done the benchmark tests
14:30.44kwizartEstimated   time is 9 minutes, 36 seconds
14:34.54brlcadthat's not a good sign on the make test
14:35.10brlcadnone of the individual tests should take more than a couple seconds
14:35.37brlcadwhere did you see the bad pointer message?
14:35.57kwizartjust after kiling the lt-rt process
14:36.04brlcadah
14:36.13brlcadI suspect it was waiting in the debugger
14:36.25brlcadand that was just pending buffered i/o
14:36.34brlcaddo you have a bomb log in that directory?
14:36.43kwizart19031 builder   35  10  105m 7652 4852 S  193  0.4  12:37.17 lt-rt
14:37.13kwizart193 is the CPU used - it use the dual core on benchmark but not on test
14:37.23kwizartlook at the log
14:37.59brlcadthere should be a bomb.log, hopefully with a valid stack trace
14:39.32brlcadshould be something like lt-rt-19031-bomb.log
14:39.34kwizartyes i have 9 lt-g_qa-????-bomb.log
14:40.09brlcadcan you paste one of them somewhere?
14:40.17brlcador all of them
14:40.26kwizartdo you want all log in the regress directory or only the bomb one ?
14:40.27brlcador post or e-mail
14:40.35brlcadsure, that'd help
14:42.42kwizartwill wait if bench can finish
14:44.48kwizartwell ok - killed
14:45.33*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-122-121.dyn.iinet.net.au)
14:45.45brlcadwhat was benchmark doing?  it does take about 10 minutes
14:45.48thing0hey
14:45.50thing0hey
14:45.55brlcadshould have been ticking by frames
14:46.13brlcadthat get slower and slower in repetition
14:46.25brlcadhello thing0
14:46.52kwizartok - wasn't even moving
14:47.58brlcadshould look something like http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m53901717
14:49.22kwizartit goes until #+++++ moss
14:49.31kwizartwhere should i email ?
14:55.05brlcaddamn that's one huge configure line :)
15:00.27thing0how u doing brlcad?
15:00.41brlcadbusy
15:08.25brlcadkwizart: ... wow, something is really hosed there for a couple of the test cases -- something is tripping up our run-time corruption detection, and correctly from the looks of the logs -- "something" is wrong
15:09.08brlcadponders
15:16.35brlcadthere was at least one useful crash log (the 'unknown' one for rt) that leads be to believe there's some aliasing problem or byte offsets are being computed incorrectly
15:17.43brlcadcan you try a simple: "./configure --enable-all && make clean && make && make benchmark" build to see if that also hangs at the +++++ moss ?
15:18.18brlcadpresuming ssp is off by default
15:18.31brlcadotherwise, turning that off as well for the test
15:20.48CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30810 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/mirror.c: Apply mirror_pt to the particle primitive. Remove old line of code from the ELL/SPH section.
15:25.02kwizartwithout doing make test ? how can i enable ssp at configure ? it would be better to have accurate configure option so I won't need to build tcl8.5 buildin
15:28.29brlcadthis is just to test the build
15:28.56brlcadbefore turning on all the various protections and worrying about what is linking with what where, I'd like to verify that the default build even works
15:29.09brlcadbecause from that crash report, it looks like it might not be
15:29.40brlcadfor all I know, ssp may even be causing a problem (e.g. with aliasing)
15:30.47brlcadmake benchmark is also one of our tests, a more fundamental test that validates the representation and geometric evaluation (via ray-tracing)
15:37.43kwizartwell, there is really low chance for the configure to rich it end if i'm just using ./configure --enable-all - but i will try
15:37.56``Erikhas run into unexpected weird crashes from system libs when deviating from --enable-all... like tk85 straight up crashes on amd64 if truetype fonts are enabled
15:38.39CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30811 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.1: Add man page description of new options
15:39.46CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30812 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Break some things out into functions, put tire region creation inside tire function.
15:41.43brlcad``Erik: he's getting a slew of magic check failures for the ptbl structs -- one happens during boolweave in the stack shader, another in g_qa
15:42.06``Erikugh
15:42.15brlcadstarseeker_: now that it has docs, deserves the news line ;)
15:42.18``Erikyeah, definitely revert to a simple configure line O.o :D
15:42.25mafmgoing earlier today
15:42.29``Erikhehehe, it has a -h help, too! :D
15:42.29mafmbye
15:42.41brlcadcya mafm
15:43.29``Eriknotes that tire.1 is installed in 7.12.2 release
15:45.05brlcadah, oh well close enough :)
15:45.38starseek1rbrlcad:  OK, I'll add it :-)
15:46.04starseek1r``Erik : It is? oops
15:47.08``Erikyeah, you added it to man_MANS instead of noinst_MANS
15:47.23``Erikhad to change the fbsd port pkg-plist for it :)
15:47.27starseek1rSorry
15:47.52``Erikit's all good, chances are that no one will notice it before 7.12.4 with a NEWS line :D
15:48.02``Erikother than being there, it wasn't advertised
15:48.27starseek1rreflects that proc-db was a poor place to check on how to install man pages...
15:49.23CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30813 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Add note about tire proc-db
15:49.29starseek1rThere we go
15:49.42``ErikI don't think we do a noinst_MANS anywhere :/
15:50.18starseek1rWell, considering there was only one other man page in all of proc-db, it was still a bad place to check :-P
15:50.39``Erikheh, uh, really? damn, proc-db needs more man pages!
15:51.00``Erikthough that idea I threw out the other day is more and more appealing to me
15:51.03starseek1ractually asked brlcad at one point if proc-dbs were supposed to be documented with man pages...
15:51.16``Erikhoisting all the procdb's into a library and having a lean little binary that chooses what funcs to call
15:52.31starseek1rlikes the idea of calling bolt functionality from a bolt proc-db inside the tire proc-db...
15:52.57starseek1r``Erik - I agree, it's growing on me as well.
15:53.29starseek1r``Erik:  Do we have proc-dbs for bolts/gears/springs/other fun stuff?
15:53.38``Erikif burly likes it, it should go into the TODO file, I'd imagine
15:53.42``ErikI d'no, look in the db dir?
15:53.43*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54877B5E.dip.t-dialin.net)
15:54.44``Erikthe only one in there I only have any real knowledge about is sphflake
15:55.11starseek1rHmm, ducks...  pyramid... tea...
15:55.44brlcadhistorically, the proc-db's are for testing geometry creation, testing new primitives or wdb routines
15:56.37starseek1rSo is what ``Erik and I are contemplating something different?
15:56.44brlcadi'm not convinced they make much sense as a library.. they're not really consistent with each other
15:57.00brlcadother than the basic idea that they "make things"
15:57.06starseek1r<evil grin> yet! </evil grin>
15:57.17brlcadthey would make nice plugins individually though
15:57.44brlcadi did plan to rewire then like the other 400 tools as modules
15:58.09starseek1rwould like to be able to say "I need 5/16in bolts in this wheel" and call the bolt generation routine...
15:58.40brlcadthat's all high-level modeling -- you could do that with them as individual plugins or in a library
15:58.47starseek1rafter writing the bolt generation routine, apparently... <cough>
15:58.55brlcadthere is an mk_bolt already
15:59.02starseek1rAh, good :-)
16:00.01starseek1rHeh - libnutsandbolts would be awesome :-P
16:00.08brlcadi see them getting tied together at a much higher level where api consistency won't matter, nor will the backend implementation
16:02.21starseek1risn't quite following - let's say, for example, I want to write a utility at some level that uses routines for nuts, bolts and curved panels to make a hull plate. The hull plate routine would depend on the nut and bolt functionality - how would it invoke them?
16:02.38starseek1r(sorry for being dense...)
16:03.21brlcadit's the "at some level" part
16:03.36brlcadI see that as being a pretty high level as it's almost arbitrary at the low-level
16:04.05starseek1rIn other words, a level that doesn't exist yet?
16:04.41brlcadeven the existing proc-db's and mk's have little to nothing to do with each other, it would take a lot of effort to make them even *able* to work with each other, and for hardly any large benefit
16:04.51brlcadright, it doesn't exist
16:04.55starseek1rah
16:04.58starseek1rgotcha
16:04.59brlcadand making it exist is paramount to rewriting most of them
16:05.36brlcadso screw it and integrate them at a higher (probably scripting/plugin) level
16:06.00brlcadwhere you just need descriptor sheets for what parameters you want to allow, what the various knobs/buttons are, etc
16:06.46starseek1rAh :-).  And in the meantime, in the isolated and unlikely cases where it would be useful now, just throw out a .h file for the function or two needed?
16:07.00starseek1rsees some .h files in there already
16:07.01brlcadit makes a heck of a lot more sense for the images or geometry converters to be integrated into a library than it does the procedural geometry generators
16:08.04brlcadfor most of them, "main" is the interface -- you could wrap them up so they all call some given function, but that's trivial
16:09.31starseek1rOK.
16:09.41starseek1rthinks it is making sense.
16:26.25kwizartFrame  0:     357882 rays   in      0.81 sec =    443264.77 rays/sec (RTFM)
16:26.25kwizartFrame  1:     715764 rays   in      1.62 sec =    441760.37 rays/sec (RTFM)
16:26.40kwizartmoss.pix: answers are RIGHT
16:27.49kwizartworld.pix: answers are RIGHT
16:34.45CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30814 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Switch ell in instead of eto for center wheel curve - no advantage to the eto shape for this wheel design.
16:35.11*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.75.27)
16:35.28andrecastelogood afternoon fellow cadheads :D
16:35.47kwizartBenchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 2561
16:35.47kwizartLogarithmic VGR metric is 3,41  (natural logarithm is 7,85)
16:36.49kwizarti should have told that I have disabled some CFLAGS ( and enabled ours)
16:37.35kwizarthttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m5b9bd8aa
16:37.39brlcadkwizart: okay, that's good progress .. now to narrow what causes it
16:38.24brlcadkwizart: -fno-strict-aliasing is needed
16:39.25brlcadotherwise .. problems, that would explain the validation check failures
16:39.46brlcad-O2 ends up doing bad things with strict aliasing on
16:39.50kwizartthat is our CFLAGS -O2 -g -pipe -Wall -Wp,-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -fexceptions -fstack-protector --param=ssp-buffer-size=4 -m64 -mtune=generic
16:40.18brlcadI saw that in the log
16:40.29brlcadis that what you used when you got the RIGHT answers?
16:40.30kwizartanythin that conflict with thoses need to be explicitly argued...
16:40.38kwizartno
16:41.07brlcadokay, that's making more sense then
16:41.17kwizartno CFLAGS where used... and i wonder if -fno-strict-aliasing remained disabled
16:41.20brlcadtry your flags again then, but keep -fno-strict-aliasing
16:41.47brlcadwell with just --enable-all, it would have no optimization, so it's not a problem yet
16:42.00brlcadif you'd added --enable-optimized or -O2 or -O3, it should have failed
16:42.19kwizartwell i don't think i will build with optimization... what does add optim ?
16:42.30kwizart(other than cflags)
16:42.35brlcadyour CFLAGS turns on optimization
16:43.38brlcadour optimization just adds -O3 right now
16:45.25kwizartwe don't distribute package with -O3 for now... maybe a can add a rpm macros to ease the rebuilt of some component (not all probably) that would need -O3 to be more efficient
16:46.20kwizarti will need to figure out how can i split components for the brlcad rpm package..
16:46.33brlcadkwizart: I'm not saying you want/need O3 :)
16:46.34kwizartwith some sub-packages
16:46.39brlcadthe difference from O2 is minor
16:46.53brlcadbut either O2 or O3 without -fno-strict-aliasing is a problem
16:47.03brlcadany O level
16:47.16brlcadtry your CFLAGS but also add -fno-strict-aliasing
16:47.26kwizartyep it build
16:47.29brlcadsee if that results in RIGHT
16:48.28brlcadit could still be some odd interaction with _FORTIFY_SOURCE ssp mods, but strict aliasing is a known problem
16:48.39kwizartat least i will need OpenNurbs to be built externally. at least
16:50.02brlcadthat probably won't work, we've made opennurbs modifications directly
16:50.31brlcadthere are plans to move the changes out of opennurbs, but as it presently stands written, you can think of opennurbs as just another internal library
16:50.40kwizartwe can disable the some cflags under certains circumstances - but we discuss that maybe that also x86_64 problem... don't know much
16:50.59brlcadhm?
16:51.02kwizartabout OpenNurbs i will probably take a snapshoot from the brlcad release
16:51.18brlcadthere shouldn't be any need to disable any of those cflags
16:51.30brlcadand we do work on x86_64, it's regularly tested
16:51.35kwizarti don't know any FOSS  project other than brlcad using it for now
16:51.55brlcadyep, and I doubt any would .. it's pretty niche to the CAD industry
16:52.44brlcadmaybe blender or avocado at some point, but not likely
17:01.46CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30815 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: this has happened several times now. make a note that -fno-strict-aliasing is REQUIRED if any level of optimization is enabled (and we're using GCC as we do use and rely on aliasing and type-punning.
17:01.59brlcadfg
17:02.14``Erikmuch have for bu list type punning.
17:02.20``Erikpunting, even
17:02.28``Erikand, uh, s/have/hate/
17:02.30CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30816 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: leave it at that
17:03.07``Erikwhen I was first doing the move from cake to automake, that bit me bigtime...
17:03.35``Erikand I presented my argument and the point that many others have done that switch, but lbutler resisted :/
17:03.42brlcadI've come to appreciate the bu_list style use, but it's the pointer tables that break with -fno-strict-aliasing iirc
17:04.26brlcadrelated to bu_list's of course
17:06.26``ErikI appreciated the approach and had been sufficiently beaten down to step back and consider
17:06.40``Erikthere're better ways to accomplish the goal given the limitations
17:06.42``Erik:/
17:06.50``ErikI could not convince lee of that
17:07.46brlcadsuch as?
17:08.39brlcadbu_lists are pretty damn prevalent ...
17:08.41``Erikhrm? whichwhat?
17:09.01brlcad"better" ways to accomplish the goal
17:09.03``Erikold bsd linked list used to be exactly that, new bsd linked list doesn't do that
17:09.16``Erikinstead using container style
17:10.05``Erikwhen I was doing the conversion, fbsd had JUST gone through a fairly painful migration from old cast style to new LISt style
17:10.40brlcadit would be painful for us too, quite ..
17:10.48brlcadprobably at least 10k instances of use
17:11.08brlcadnon-regexable
17:12.07``Eriktends to be the case
17:12.17``ErikI tried to fix it back when it was easily fixable
17:12.31brlcadmaybe as low as 877 though, if the macro wrappers are consistently used (which they're not)
17:12.35``Eriklee took a moral stance on it.. I was new to the project and job, so I folded too soon :/
17:12.55``Erik"if I knew then what I know now"
17:13.02brlcadmeh, it's rather bikeshed
17:13.22brlcadit's just an optimization based on a false assumption that C allows for
17:13.31``Eriki'd disagree
17:14.02brlcadso you can feel strongly for or against it, but it's not like it's inherintly right or wrong imo
17:14.20``Erikit's an optimization based on assumption that every developer is fully aware of the ugly implifications of the reprecussions that the dirty cheats C allows for
17:14.47``ErikI mean, a fistful of guru C coders? SURE, bits is bits, we know how it all hammers out
17:15.16``Erikthe minute you throw in someone who isn't qualified to chum among the "greybeard" gurus... uh, we get little hard to track issues
17:15.29brlcadeh, that's not disagreeing with what I said -- except maybe that it's a "false assumption"
17:15.42brlcadi'm saying it's false *because* C allows for it
17:15.56brlcadnot saying that it should or should not be used
17:16.14brlcadTHAT is what makes it bikeshed -- if it's to be resolved otherwise, C should be modified
17:16.20``Erikit's not illegal, it's dangerous :D I think we're in violent agreement
17:18.22``ErikI'm a bsd junkie, I watched them expunge themselves of exactly this, I think they did the right thing in more orless the right way... *shrug* with the move from fbsd 5 to fbsd 6 iirc
17:19.25kwizartok well that was my bad - it seems to work with our cflags and -fno-common -fno-strict-aliasing
17:20.19brlcadit's just so petty, though .. I mean say you do the whole conversion, spend the days/weeks/months refactoring hundreds to thousands of lines of code .. and *don't* actually inject new bugs .. you basically end up where you started
17:20.34brlcadi mean "maybe" with a percent or two optimization gain at *best*
17:20.37``ErikNEEDS -fno-strict-aliasing, for exactly the thing brlcad and myself are talking about here
17:20.59brlcadkwizart: you shouldn't need (or care) about -fno-common on linux
17:23.43kwizartElapsed compilation time: 14 hours, 56 minutes, 37 seconds
17:24.01kwizart^^ what does it means:
17:24.03kwizartElapsed time since configuration: 20 minutes, 22 seconds
17:24.23brlcadit means your clock probably recently crossed midnight
17:25.29brlcador just that you started building 14 hours ago
17:25.37kwizart19h25
17:25.38brlcadwhen you first ran make
17:26.10brlcadit's based off of the build stamp in include/conf and if you've not ran make clean, that'll just keep getting bigger
17:26.18kwizartstart building20min ago , unless it took distcc content... it is recreated each time...
17:26.24kwizartwith rpmbuild -ba
17:26.48brlcadreiterates .. it's based off of the build stamp in include/conf and if you've not ran make clean, the compilation time will just increase
17:27.34brlcad*or* maybe you're pulling from a source tarball where there's a date stamp already in there
17:27.58brlcadcat include/conf/DATE
17:29.01kwizart"Wed Apr 23 04:21:07 EDT 2008"
17:29.13kwizartdate : jeu avr 24 19:29:05 CEST 2008
17:29.19kwizartget it
17:29.31brlcadyeah, that's a build stamp from the source tarball
17:29.42brlcadit doesn't know it's out of date
17:36.34*** join/#brlcad homovulgaris (n=thedawn@202.63.233.61)
17:39.52``Erikso, brlcad,what do you think of hoisting proc-db functionality into a lib with a big wrapper executable?
17:40.09brlcadthinks ``Erik missed a bunch of backlog
17:40.18``Erik*scroll*
17:54.13CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30817 10/brlcad/trunk/include/conf/Makefile.am:
17:54.13CIA-20BRL-CAD: make HOST, PATH, USER, and DATE depend on brlcad_config.h so that the values
17:54.13CIA-20BRL-CAD: reset every time configure is run. this way the date stamp and build system
17:54.13CIA-20BRL-CAD: should match whomever is performing the build for source dist builders instead
17:54.13CIA-20BRL-CAD: of the maintainer that made the distribution tarball. the downside is more
17:54.16CIA-20BRL-CAD: frequent rebuilds of everything for internal devs.
18:03.46starseek1rIn C, how do I generate the name of a function to call and then call it?  (e.g., say I have draw1, draw2 and draw3 defined and I want to do a for loop for i = 1 to three call draw$i?
18:05.29brlcadyou would usually use macros, have defined call-table mappings, or use dynamic loading
18:05.40brlcadwhat are you actually trying to do?
18:07.40brlcadunless you have dozens to iterate over, you'd probably should just call draw1(); draw2(); draw3();
18:10.21starseek1rThe idea is there may be an unknown (to tire) number of possible wheel or tread styles defined
18:12.50starseek1rI want to specify on the command line -t 8 and have tire attempt to draw tread pattern 8.  I'd like the routine that attempts to draw different patterns to be generic, and not need editing each time a new tread is defined
18:15.15brlcadthey're not unknown in code, though -- they have to be in there
18:16.04brlcadwith that specific example, you could have an array of function pointers and -t 8 would give you the 8th function pointer
18:16.39starseek1rheh - bob suggested that too :-)  Could you recommend a good tutorial/example on using function pointers in C?
18:16.48brlcadgoogle? :)
18:16.53starseek1rk :-)
18:16.56brlcadi'm sure there are hundreds
18:21.45pacman87finally caught up reading
18:21.52pacman87been really busy this week
18:22.30pacman87(08:09:24) brlcad: announcement formulation
18:22.30pacman87(08:10:02) brlcad: explaining what these projects are in more layman terms
18:22.30pacman87(08:10:33) brlcad: pacman87: yours is "Implementing Solid of Revolution and Sweep Primitives"
18:23.47pacman87do i need to change anything?
18:28.24starseek1rbrlcad:  Would it be bad form to stick a libtread.c and libtread.h file in proc-db to hold tread definitions?
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18:32.22brlcadpacman87: nope
18:32.30brlcadjust a nod that it sounded okay with you
18:32.39brlcadbut too late now, the announcements went out ;)
18:48.06kwizarthttp://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=581443
18:48.15kwizartok still try to build ppc and ppc64
18:53.43brlcadwoot
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20:41.47prasad_hates semaphores
20:43.52CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30818 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Replace lots of individual commands by a single loop for tread extrusion.
20:46.57starseekerloupci:  Thanks, i'm good (sorry, getting the hang of irssi)
20:54.20CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30819 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Oops - fix the conditional checking for tread insertion.
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22:05.47andrecastelohey everyone
23:50.54yukonbobhey andrecastelo
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080425

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080425

00:15.25*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-169-143-235.dyn.iinet.net.au)
00:16.49thing0hey yall
00:19.59*** join/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@124-169-233-209.dyn.iinet.net.au)
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00:39.28brlcadthat's a lot of things
00:43.05starseeker_anybody else seeing this build failure?  make[3]: *** No rule to make target `../../../brlcad/include/brlcad_config.h', needed by `HOST'.  Stop.
00:44.03brlcadit'd be the change made earlier today
00:44.13starseeker_diffs
00:51.14starseeker_You mean changing the dnl message??  That can't be right...
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01:41.20brlcadno..
01:44.21andrecastelogood night guys
01:44.23andrecastelocya later
01:50.14*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669531.dsl.bell.ca)
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01:53.34CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30820 10/brlcad/trunk/include/conf/Makefile.am: deja-vu -- try using the top_builddir instead of top_srcdir for out-of-dir builds
01:54.02thing0blackbox on windows
01:54.04thing0;)
01:54.06thing0happier now
01:54.07thing0hehe
01:55.27starseeker_good catch - thanks brlcad
01:55.57starseeker_supposes he should quit being an oddball and build in src...
02:26.58brlcadstarseeker: not really a good catch - not even clear that it fixes the problem.  if the build suddenly breaks, you should look at recent changes/commits (which you could/should be paying attention to regardless..) to see what might be the cause for a given error
02:27.17brlcadbuilding out of dir is useful for catching build issues
02:27.55brlcadin this particular case, though, it could just as easily be both top_srcdir and top_builddir
02:27.55brlcadmeaning another solution needs to be found
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04:55.58brlcadpainstakingly finishes importing and updating most of the wiki help pages
04:56.51yukonbobpasses brlcad a tasty beverage...
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05:49.54brlcadFYI: http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Expectations and http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Checklist
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06:18.28brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2008
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08:05.57yukonbobhey clock_
08:06.22yukonbobre: "procdural grass" in gallery -- can anybody tell me a bit about those renderings?
08:06.52yukonbob*"procedural grass"
08:11.46clock_yukonbob: hey
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11:45.15starseeker_scrolls back, sees he somehow didn't spot the earlier Makefile.am commit, and turns mildly red...
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11:59.35andrecastelogood morning :D
12:01.47*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@210.212.55.3)
12:02.49hippieindamakin8hey yukonbob
12:04.34andrecastelohey hippieindamakin8
12:04.55hippieindamakin8hey andrecastelo hows it going ?
12:05.13andrecasteloi'm fine, you ? :D
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13:21.42``ErikEVERYBODY DANCE!
13:24.32clock_"In 2005 the Italian authorities had issued          warrants for the arrest of 22 agents of the US Central Intelligence Agency in      connection with the abduction.
13:24.35clock_"
13:24.55clock_Hmm so whose government sponsors terrorism here?
13:25.26clock_I think Bush should visit Guantanamo for this and have some waterboarding
13:28.13``Erikhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/M35A2-6X6-MILITARY-TRUCK_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ80765QQihZ003QQitemZ130215375180QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
13:28.20``Erikdb/m35.g seems a little... crude :D
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13:35.22starseeker``Erik - so how long will it take you to fix it? ;-)
13:35.51``ErikI d'no, how long will it take you to update the stuff so I can go tell everyone it's fixed? :D
13:36.06starseekerheh
13:36.49starseekerthere must be an old m35 on display around here somewhere
13:43.45clock_do you use m35s instead of the Utah Teapot?
14:01.31``Erikdoes :)
14:01.54``Eriktakes a while to heat the water up, needs LOTS of tea bags, but one will last a whole da
14:01.56``Erikday
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14:09.38starseekerwades into rt looking to add -k to other lighting models
14:11.37``Erikother lighting models, or other front ends?
14:11.50``Erikrtedge would benefit from it, I'd imagine, but could be... tricky O.o :D
14:17.22starseekersurface normals was my first target
14:18.19starseekerheh - somehow "I'm going to go make an M35 of tea now" just doesn't have the same ring
14:19.09``Erikyeah, but just imagine a bunch of guys standing around going "CHUG! CHUG! CHUG!"
14:25.41starseekerhmm - a lot of the cutting plane logic for -k seems to be in colorview and view_init...
14:26.33hippieindamakin8andrecastelo, almost done with my endsemester exams. :) trying to model some stuff rt now :)
14:36.37starseeker's first guess is that there needs to be come sort of "common" prep for all lighting models, rather than just in colorview...
14:40.40``Erikboogies to 80's pop
14:40.55``Erikhad to backspace to change 'poop' to 'pop' O.o hehehe
14:46.02clock_Mika, The New Queen of Poop?
14:47.20``Erikheh, was "til tuesday", actually :D random shuffle, pheer
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15:42.34starseekerOK, hmm - adding the ap->a_hit = colorview line to the light model #2 prep didn't change anything, for good or bad.  
15:42.40starseekermust dig deeper...
15:56.53starseekersuccessfully breaks surface normals...
15:57.24``Eriksweet, we can put "support for surface abnormals" int he news file D:
15:57.25``Erik:D
16:00.10clock_surface abnormals?
16:00.23clock_oh it's like the normals are deviated, haha :)
16:00.49starseekerthinks he knows what is going on, just not sure yet how to fix it...
16:01.06*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-092-244.pools.arcor-ip.net)
16:01.35``Erikpheer my stupid puns ;D
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16:21.57andrecastelofolks, gtg
16:21.58andrecastelocya laer
16:22.00andrecastelolater*
16:22.02andrecastelo:D
16:22.14CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30821 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/view.c: Enable -k flag with surface normal lighting
16:24.02starseekerWoooooooot
16:24.32starseekermight have fixed global illumination too, if it was busted before - not sure.  Checked now and working
16:24.41starseekerAs for rtedge...
16:24.51starseekerCrud
16:24.55starseekernot working yet
16:25.29``Erikhehehe
16:25.50starseekerisn't even sure it can process the k option
16:26.04starseekerdoesn't show up in the help
16:26.48starseekernot sure whether to class -k support in rtedge not being there as a bug or a feature request
16:27.14``Erikmeh, classify is as a TODO entry :D
16:28.16starseeker``Erik is that fix worth a news line?
16:28.38``Erikuhmmmmm, probably?
16:28.51starseekerwill assume it is and can fix later if need be...
16:29.24CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30822 10/brlcad/trunk/ (BUGS NEWS): update BUGS and NEWS files for -k surface normals fix
16:29.29``Erik<-- lets brlcad handle that, throws stuff in as a rough draft and stands back to see if it gets struck or reworded :)
16:33.24CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30823 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: add a couple things I plan on doing
16:34.56``Erikwonders if should have left "totally flip out like a ninja and kill everyone" out of that commit
16:36.58``Erik(pheer http://www.realultimatepower.net/ )
17:03.53*** part/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@203.59.137.210)
17:08.13CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30824 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_metaball.c: Gort! Metaball Barata Nikto!
17:35.56MinuteElectronoops
17:36.02MinuteElectroni promised to look at recpatcha
17:36.04MinuteElectronbut forgot
17:36.08MinuteElectronnow seams like a good tiem
17:42.47starseekerawards ``Erik the least informative commit message of the year award...
17:43.53starseekerunless metaballs need to be stoped from destroying the world one laser blast at a time...
17:53.05*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54874891.dip.t-dialin.net)
18:03.42MinuteElectronwell that didn't get anywhere...
18:04.11``Erikwell, actually, yeah
18:04.22``Erikthat's exactly what needs to happen
18:04.24``Erik...
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19:12.37PrezzKennedytakes a gov't lunchbreak
19:12.46PrezzKennedywon't be back til next Thursday
19:19.50``ErikO.o
19:20.09``Erikpulls up the reg's to see if he'd been reading the wrong lunch break duration
19:29.09PrezzKennedyyou're right!
19:29.14PrezzKennedywon't be back until Friday
19:33.22yukonbobmorning cadheads
19:50.53*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-83-61.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:57.53CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30825 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (tire.1 tire.c): Add first cut at different tire extrusion - use tire -t 1 and tire -t 2 to see the differences.
20:16.19``Erik185/60r18
20:25.13*** join/#brlcad vedge (n=vedge@205-237-251-209.ilesdelamadeleine.ca)
20:55.03``Erikso, uh
20:55.06``Erikthis one time, at band camp
21:01.54brlcadMinuteElectron: any insights?
21:02.04brlcaddid you see the double-verify it's doing?
21:02.42brlcadstarseeker: awesome -- was that just copied from the other section for the default lighting mode?
21:02.52starseekeralmost
21:03.13starseekerThere were a couple of commands pertaining to setting normals that needed to be added
21:03.35starseekergot a really... odd render on the first attempt :-)
21:04.48brlcadcommands?
21:04.57*** join/#brlcad vedge (n=vedge@205-237-251-209.ilesdelamadeleine.ca)
21:05.07starseekersetting of normals, I believe
21:05.16starseekerit's almost a straight copy
21:05.24brlcadwhat i'm getting at is that I was wondering if the two sections could be combined
21:05.29brlcadinto a function that they just both call
21:05.32starseekerAh.
21:05.39brlcadsince there are 6 other lighting modes :)
21:05.47MinuteElectronbrlcad: no, I spent about half an hour poking about it; but i don't see any reason it's not working. i think there's somethign wrong with the drupal installation, somewhere along the lines things started to get mucked up.
21:05.49brlcadand things like rtedge
21:06.33starseekerpossibly - there are two different "prep" commands for different lighting modes
21:07.01brlcadMinuteElectron: really?  what makes you think it's the drupal install -- I would guess first just a bug either in drupal or in their captcha plugin
21:07.07brlcadand more likely the latter
21:07.45starseekerlight model 0 calls colorview, and apparently surface normals uses viewit
21:08.02brlcadMinuteElectron: hm, in fact that gives me an idea of something else to try -- only using recaptcha instead of allowing the default captcha .. didn't think to try that earlier but that could help pinpoint things
21:08.05starseekerAh - I need to add a couple RT_HIT_NORMAL calls to the viewit version
21:09.40starseekerfrom what ``Erik said, rtedge is kind of its own beast
21:10.03``Erikviewedge.c, yo
21:10.15MinuteElectronbrlcad: ok, tell me if you have any luck
21:10.15starseekeris looking at now
21:13.31brlcadstarseeker: it is, there are view*.c files for each of the raytrace apps
21:13.39brlcadthat's their entire guts for the most part
21:13.51brlcadso the hooks are *very* similar to get into everyone
21:13.55brlcadMinuteElectron: will do
21:15.22starseekerfinds handle_main_ray
21:15.31starseekererm...
21:16.04brlcaddon't go by names, have to go by the logic flow
21:16.17``Erikviewedge.c is extra special cuz I did horrible things in it :D
21:20.46starseekerwill have to dig a little deeper to figure out where the cutting plane logic should go in rtedge's code
21:30.00starseekerHmm - lighting modes 4,5 and 6 segfault with the -k option
21:30.06``Erikawesome
21:30.14``Erikwanders home for dinner, beer and scifi
21:30.22starseekeris headed that way too
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22:19.53``Erikahhhhh
22:22.05``Erikfix your busted arsed tires yet? :D
22:23.02``Erikfixed yet, even
22:23.32``Erikamusing that my guessed one just had a tiny sliver of overlap :)
22:57.34*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.75.27)
23:00.24andrecastelogood evening folks
23:00.29``Erikhowdy
23:01.39andrecastelohey ``Erik
23:02.55``Erikhow's it going?
23:06.47andrecasteloi'm fine, you ?
23:07.41``Erikchugging along, happy it's weekend O.o
23:07.46andrecastelome too :D
23:07.57andrecastelothough i sill have end semester exams next week
23:08.19andrecastelobut on a related note, should we set up some communication schedule for gsoc ?
23:08.41``Erikuhm, up to you, I assume you'll be asking loads of questions and sending patches
23:09.15``Erikand I'm on irc pretty much all the time, read the backlog, just tend to ignore it over the weekend (and catch up monday or tuesday)
23:09.44*** join/#brlcad vedge (n=vedge@205-237-251-209.ilesdelamadeleine.ca)
23:10.08andrecasteloso i guess there will be no problem, i'm on irc pretty much whenever i'm at home (which is practically 75% of the time)
23:11.01``Erik*shrug* I'm all up for just playing it by ear and if someone isn't terribly happy, then we can figure out if we need a formalized schedule of any form
23:11.36``Erikso have you made a decision about having some kind of blog or wiki status page yet?
23:16.18andrecastelo``Erik: i think i'll create a blog to report progress
23:16.38``Erikcool
23:16.38andrecasteloany problem ?
23:16.45``Eriknope? just curious :)
23:16.49andrecastelohm ok :D
23:17.05andrecasteloi did migrate my proposal to the wiki as a design document, though
23:18.17``Erikyeah, saw it
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23:38.33``Erikdamnit, screwed up my cvs roots somehow
23:52.58``Erik*snrkt* http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1802197
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080426

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080426

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01:56.36CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30826 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Take a try at making tire shaping more robust
01:57.23starseeker_``Erik:  OK, not ready for thickness stuff yet, but take a stab at your weird European tire sizes.
02:20.10*** join/#brlcad vedge (n=vedge@205-237-251-209.ilesdelamadeleine.ca)
03:01.04``Erikheh, was just a random size, not my fault that russia actually uses it
04:16.38yukonbobevening, cadheads
04:21.06Axman6brlcad: yt? getting an error on OS X, and i can't remember if it's the same as what i was getting before (i installed the latest X11 update yesterday, and wanted to see if those issues had been fixed)
04:22.18Axman6the error is as folows, for anyone interested...
04:22.19Axman6Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...The process has forked and you cannot use this CoreFoundation functionality safely. You MUST exec().
04:22.23Axman6Break on __THE_PROCESS_HAS_FORKED_AND_YOU_CANNOT_USE_THIS_COREFOUNDATION_FUNCTIONALITY___YOU_MUST_EXEC__() to debug.
04:22.46Axman6and the two lines, starting at "The process has forked…" are repeated about 6 times
04:31.45yukonbobAxman6: what is generating this error?
04:31.58Axman6mged with no flags
04:32.57yukonbobhrmm..
04:33.49yukonbobwhat's the flag to keep mged from detaching? (ie: run in foreground)?
05:07.31Axman6-d? i'll have a look...
05:39.27Axman6-c. and that works, but i don't get the full gui :(
05:48.39yukonbob-c == classic, iirc
05:48.58yukonbob(/me doesn't have BRL-CAD installed atm) :P
05:53.48Axman6heh
06:28.28brlcadAxman6: that's fixed on head, should be fixed in the 7.12.2 release
06:28.37brlcadhaven't put up binaries yet, that's this weekend
06:29.06brlcadotherwise, mged -f should do the trick
06:36.46Axman6ooo, mged -f works fine with the version i have now :)
06:37.22Axman6which is 7.10.2 apparently. i'll try installing 7.12.0
06:39.19Axman6is the aqua-tk version any good?
06:40.46brlcadthere isn't an aqua-tk version of BRL-CAD
06:40.53brlcadat least not yet
06:42.05Axman6hmm, ok. well configure script seems to imply there is one.
06:42.28brlcadhow so?
06:43.12Axman6--enable-aquatk-build   Use Aqua windowing system on Mac OS X (default=no)
06:43.38brlcadah, right -- it's because that's something actively being worked on ;)
06:43.58brlcadbut there's still never been a release to date yet, few unresolved issues
06:44.06Axman6ah, ok :)
06:45.40Axman6doesn't seem to like --enable-64bit-build on my system. not that it's important though, it'd just be nice to have _something_ that was actually 64-bit on here, that wasn't Xcode, or chess
06:49.26brlcad10.4?
06:49.56brlcad10.4 doesn't provide 64-bit libs for a few critical libraries, like X11
06:50.55Axman610.5
06:53.45Axman6looks like all the X11 libraries are 64-bit here. might be building against something from macports that it shouldn't
06:57.58brlcadhm or something entirely different
07:00.38brlcadi've only built on 10.5 remoteley and it merely required a few petty patches be applied in addition to the configure flags
07:01.00Axman6on this very machine ;)
07:02.12brlcadheh, right .. the names sometimes blend :)
07:02.23Axman6s'ok :)
07:02.55brlcadyeah, your build worked cleanly for me -- even graphical mged via remote X
07:02.56yukonbobanybody mind if I ask an OT nm(1) question?
07:03.20brlcadwhich at the time basically just pointed at there being a problem with apple's X11 server still
07:03.32brlcaddoes nm
07:03.47brlcads/nm/not mind/
07:04.18yukonbob:)
07:05.22yukonbobq: should a library have unresolved symbols? It seems obvious to me the answer is "no", but I've got one that's _full_ of unresolved symbols (is related to MesaLib being updated to 7.x on my NetBSD machine)
07:05.36brlcadit can have unresolved symbols
07:05.57brlcadld tries to resolve them at run-time
07:06.06yukonbobhrmm...
07:06.14brlcadhence the ld.so.conf paths and LD_LIBRARY_PATH
07:06.52yukonbobhrmm...
07:06.57Axman6urgh, benchmark fails. pretty badly
07:07.22Axman6i'll try out 7.12.3 i guess
07:07.25Axman6if i can?
07:07.29brlcadideally, libs are fully resolved/resolvable -- frameworks with dylibs attempt to provide fully resolved libs for example
07:09.12brlcadAxman6: how is benchmark failing
07:09.23brlcad(see one of the log file)
07:09.36Axman6+++++ sphflake
07:09.36Axman6RAYTRACE ERROR
07:09.36Axman6sphflake.pix: No such file or directory
07:09.36Axman6sphflake.pix: BENCHMARK COMPARISON FAILURE
07:09.39Axman6:|
07:10.01brlcadwhat's near the bottom of moss.log
07:10.49Axman6ah, never mind. guess it was just make benchmark that was having problems
07:11.06brlcadhm?
07:11.17Axman6the `benchmark` command seems to be working
07:11.21brlcadthat would be a bog if true
07:11.30brlcada bug even
07:11.39Axman6not sure what i did wrong, but i'm sure it's my problem, not yours ;)
07:12.36brlcadheh, okay
07:12.51brlcadthe end of the log file would stil gue u;
07:13.57brlcad<PROTECTED>
07:14.15Axman6dyld: Symbol not found: __cg_png_create_info_struct Referenced from: /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/ImageIO Expected in: /Users/Axman/compiled-projects/brlcad-7.12.0/src/other/libpng/.libs/libpng.1.dylib
07:15.08brlcadah, right .. keep forgetting about that problem
07:15.19Axman6uh, "dyld: warning, DYLD_ setting caused circular dependency in /usr/X11/lib/libGL.1.dylib
07:15.23brlcadthe build fix is to just --disable-png
07:15.29brlcads/build/quick/
07:15.31Axman6was before that, should've stuck that in too
07:15.45brlcadtoo many typos and forgettings, I must need to reboot
07:16.04Axman6s/reboot/sleep
07:18.30Axman6heh, there's no google sketchup importer is there?
07:21.00Axman6hmm, mged won't run now. http://pastie.caboo.se/187167
07:22.35brlcadyeah, that's trying to use the system libs
07:22.38brlcadfor tcl/tk
07:22.45brlcadthat's nfg for brl-cad guild
07:22.45Axman6anything i can do to fix that?
07:23.26brlcad--enable-tcl --enable-tk
07:24.08brlcadsuggests reading INSTALL if you're not already, it's not generic
07:24.10Axman6cheers
08:34.22louipcclear
08:34.26louipcoops
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12:28.37``Erikhum
12:28.45starseeker_hmm?
12:29.23``ErikI seem to have filled up a hard drive and lost one of my miniscreen cookies
12:29.32starseeker_ow
12:29.53``Erikgonna try to get it back :D
12:31.12``Erikeven if it involved writing a kernel module O.o
12:31.30starseeker_eeep
12:52.53CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30827 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (tire.1 tire.c): Add size-related scaling for thicknesses and an option to override the tire thickness.
12:53.37starseeker_OK ``Erik. if you can spare a sec from kernel hacking see what the next way to bust it is
12:57.38``Erikthat'd involve compiling it hehehe
12:58.27``Erikhuh
12:58.45``Erikseems my process has went and actually corrupted itself slightly
13:01.25starseeker_ow
13:02.00starseeker_what'd you DO to it??
13:05.35``Erikuhmmm, actually, i'm not sure now, it might be fine and I'm just getting a lamed up symbol table :)
13:06.29``Erikit's been running for 127 days and I may've upgraded the software without restarting hte process... O.o
13:06.31starseeker_would probably reboot in disgust...
13:07.07``Erikyes, linux and windows weenies share that kneejerk reaction :D
13:07.32starseeker_can live with a reboot every 127 days...
13:07.45starseeker_helps to test the bootstrap process of booting...
13:08.42``Erikheh, might explain why linux starts doing really weird things around 200 days but bsd can stay solid over 1000 (seen sun up at 1400)
13:08.59``Eriktoo busy testing the boot process to test the reliability aspect O.o
13:09.01``Erik:D
13:09.36starseeker_<snort> If you want uptimes like that Debian stable might be a good place to start...
13:09.54``Erikgot one, kernel still pukes itself up
13:10.18``ErikI wonder of that new 'pslice' thing linux has will get some progress in the reliability direction going
13:10.33starseeker_dunno
13:10.43``ErikI thought about implementing that for fbsd many years ago, but didn't know nearly enough about the kernel guts at the time to jump on it
13:11.04``Erikand have changed my views on upgrading since
13:11.30starseeker_figures for the vast majority of home users in the world the POWER will fail at least once within 200 days.
13:12.57starseeker_How do you fault test for an "after 200 days" bug anyway?
13:12.57``Erik(any upgrade/change that might disrupt service doesn't get blindly applied, I read changelogs and security bullitens and decide based on my usage)
13:13.03starseeker_cool
13:13.52``Erikthings go "spooky", like I've seen a couple instances where load goes skyrocketting while cpu usage is low, context switches are low, interrupts are low...
13:14.06``Erikuntil it crashes
13:14.17starseeker_scowls at Amazon's Lisp in Small Pieces listings and wonders why ALL the used/new offerings other than Amazon's own are either the same price or MORE...
13:14.19``Erikor completely siezes and gets the big red button treatment
13:14.33starseeker_Hmm.
13:15.02starseeker_Need good logging to be able to do anything with a situation like that...
13:15.47``Erikof course, that I have the data to spot that behavior instead of just saying "it crashed and got rebooted" is not normal :D
13:16.04``Erikit's "enterprisy", but good "enterprisy"
13:18.47starseeker_heh
13:40.51``Erikblargh, *surrender* :/
13:41.28``ErikI'm either guessing a bad 50 meg range or something's just screwey
14:02.39CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30828 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (tire.1 tire.c): Add option to specify rim width
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14:40.36CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30829 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Change default tire size to something a little more common.
14:43.04brlcadhe's on a roll
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14:53.30``Erikonly as long as his tires come out round, unlike that one I made yesterday :D
15:56.13starseeker_``Erik:  You want round tires?  Boy, you're demanding
15:56.18starseeker_:-P
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16:07.26CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30830 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/str.c:
16:07.26CIA-20BRL-CAD: only warn about the string truncation if debug is turned as it is indeed
16:07.26CIA-20BRL-CAD: entirely valid for the src string in strlcpy to be longer than size. this check
16:07.26CIA-20BRL-CAD: was mainly added because there was a slew of strncpy code migrated over and the
16:07.26CIA-20BRL-CAD: truncation by the new strlcpy wasn't intentional (or desirable). there are
16:07.28CIA-20BRL-CAD: undoubtedly more callers that need to be weeded out.
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16:30.05CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30831 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): the start of consolidating and long-term efforts to eliminate library globals. add a globals.c source with the malloc.c globals for starters.
16:34.47CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30832 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (globals.c malloc.c vls.c): move bu_vls_message and bu_strdup_message to globals.c
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16:40.38CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30833 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (globals.c ispar.c parallel.c): move bu_pid_of_initiating_thread from ispar.c to globals.c
16:46.39CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30834 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (bomb.c globals.c): move bu_setjmp_valid and bu_jmpbuf from bomb.c to globals.c
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18:10.13CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30835 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (tire.1 tire.c): Add second tread pattern, enable selection of pattern types at command line.
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19:00.05brlcadhey paul
19:00.26csanyipalbrlcad: hey
19:01.16csanyipalsean: hey
19:01.32brlcadhow goes it
19:01.59brlcadfyi, that write error you reported "should" be gone with the latest release
19:02.00csanyipalbrlcad: Thank you, not so good.
19:02.07brlcadah, sorry to hear that
19:02.51csanyipalbrlcad: I have reinstalled my Debian system and must to reinstall brl-cad too.
19:04.20csanyipalbrlcad: and the same error occure again, when I try to Raytrace the mug.
19:05.14brlcadthe bu_log error?
19:05.26csanyipalbrlcad: I have installed the brl-cad from the tarball, downloaded from the Sourceforge.net
19:05.42csanyipalbrlcad: yes, the bu_log error.
19:07.35csanyipalbrlcad: I edit the .bash_profile: export FB_FILE=/dev/Xl
19:07.46csanyipalbrlcad: but that not help.
19:08.52brlcadyeah, that's not related
19:09.02brlcadwhat does binfo report?
19:09.04csanyipalbrlcad: mybe must I to install something more, but I can't remember what.
19:10.05csanyipalbrlcad: bu_version=[BRL-CAD Release 7.10.4  The BRL-CAD Utility Library     Thu Oct 25 16:34:31 EDT 2007, Compilation 1     morrison@xoff.arl.army.mil:/usr/brlcad/rel-7.10.4 ] bn_version=[BRL-CAD Release 7.10.4  The BRL-CAD Numerical Computation Library     Thu Oct 25 16:34:31 EDT 2007, Compilation 1     morrison@xoff.arl.army.mil:/usr/brlcad/rel-7.10.4 ] rt_version=[BRL-CAD Re
19:10.05csanyipallease 7.10.4  The BRL-CAD Ray-Tracing Library     Thu Oct 25 16:34:31 EDT 2007, Compilation 1     morrison@xoff.arl.army.mil:/usr/brlcad/rel-7.10.4 ] fb_version=[BRL-CAD Release 7.10.4  The BRL-CAD Framebuffer Library     Thu Oct 25 16:34:31 EDT 2007, Compilation 1     morrison@xoff.arl.army.mil:/usr/brlcad/rel-7.10.4 ]
19:10.26brlcadthat's still 7.10.4 .. try the latest release
19:10.31brlcad7.12.2
19:11.00brlcadwas released last week
19:11.16brlcador even better, try latest svn so I can try fixes live if you run into problems
19:11.18brlcad~cadsvn
19:11.19ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
19:11.22csanyipalbrlcad: From where to download it?
19:11.34csanyipalbrlcad: OK
19:12.18csanyipalbrlcad: Thank you!
19:13.24csanyipalbrlcad: I go now to obtain the latest svn..
19:13.50brlcadgreat
19:13.55CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30836 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/chgview.c: don't need to manually null-terminate with bu_strlcpy
19:14.22brlcadi made some debian fixes a couple weeks ago so it should actually build much better on debian now
19:15.48csanyipalbrlcad: In the latest svn?
19:16.07brlcadhm?
19:16.50csanyipalbrlcad: If I obtain the latest brlcad from svn then I get this fixes?
19:16.57CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30837 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs): move over the bu_log_hook_list too to globals.c and fix some missing declarations. make the bu_log lists non-published since nobody is using it.
19:19.12CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30838 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: noticed that the graphics window in mged wasn't responding to key events properly. sends the keys to the command window even when the graphics window has focus.
19:19.18brlcadcsanyipal: ah, yes
19:19.42brlcadevery one of those CIA notices is a *live* change notification .. that's the source code changing
19:20.10brlcadif you have an svn checkout, you can "svn update" and it'll get any changes since the last time you updated or ran checkout
19:20.59csanyipalbrlcad: OK
19:33.42CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30839 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/bomb.c: it was (re)published in bu.h so decl is not needed
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19:48.51CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30840 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (getopt.c globals.c): move the bu_getopt globals over to globals.c
19:56.11CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30841 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/magic.c: header cleanup
20:19.51CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30842 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Switch the naming on the two patterns for consistency - default now pairs smooth profile with auto tread.
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20:27.35prasad1brlcad, ``Erik, u guys there?
20:27.50brlcadnope
20:30.19brlcad~ask
20:30.20ibotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
20:35.52prasad1wasn't there a kyle bodt in 328?
20:44.49CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30843 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): remove the bu_observer_cmds global by turning it into a static and wrapping it up in a new bu_observer_cmd() callback that the various callers use instead of bu_cmd.
20:47.31CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30844 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/parallel.c: non-global for cray
20:58.30``Erikd'no if he was in 328, know he was in 238 for a bit
21:34.55CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30845 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Add a couple of default behavor tweaks for flags.
21:55.37CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30846 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: src/libbn/axis.c claims to have been started in august 1978 by mike, that pushes his first known actual development date back a bit
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080427

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080427

02:16.14*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu)
02:17.23CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30847 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/fortran.c: doc update
02:17.35CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30848 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/tplot.c: reorder to eliminate need for decls
02:34.11CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30849 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/wavelet.c: add semicolons so indent-region works
02:50.08CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30850 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): add a globals.c file to libbn to itemize all library global variables. since they're mostly all massive tables that warrant their own file, just reference the externs
02:56.10CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30851 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac misc/Makefile.am misc/win32-msvc7/): remove the obsolete win32-msvc7 dir, replaced by the win32-msvc8 dir
03:43.58CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30852 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): remove TINY, go for int
03:46.29CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30853 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Need more clipping when hub width is manually specified - looks like dyside1 may be a poor approximation of a maximum as hub width is changed. This tweak is likely not general enough.
03:59.49CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30854 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): move the math constants from const.c to globals.c
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07:51.26CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30855 10/brlcad/trunk/ (13 files in 6 dirs): the start of libged. use dg_obj, view_obj, and wdb_obj routines as a beginning. the intent of the library is to hold most all geometric editing procedures.
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13:24.01``Erikjabs brlcad with a pointy stick until he sees src/libged/Makefile.am
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14:18.39CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30856 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/Makefile.am: oops, forgot to add the Makefile.am
14:46.17CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30857 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: (log message trimmed)
14:46.17CIA-20BRL-CAD: Major change in the way ellipses are used to model sides. Instead of 1 rotated
14:46.17CIA-20BRL-CAD: ellipse per side, use two non-rotated ellipses for the top of the sides and a
14:46.17CIA-20BRL-CAD: single ellipse to take care of the bottom half of both sides. Mathematical
14:46.17CIA-20BRL-CAD: solver code is unchanged since it is quite general, but additional ellipses are
14:46.20CIA-20BRL-CAD: being solved for and inputs should constrain them to be non-rotated. This
14:46.22CIA-20BRL-CAD: method should have the potential to guarantee a specific tire width and may
14:50.07starseeker_attempts to uncross eyeballs...
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15:28.34CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30858 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (71 files): sweeping header/comment cleanups including removal of debug.h
15:30.50starseeker_Grr - is there any way in rt to make a model take up more of the rendered area (i.e. do what would be done in mged if you zoomed in on the model before raytracing?)
15:32.42starseeker_is looking at man page but may not know the correct terminology for what he is trying to do...
15:37.39starseeker_brlcad:  I'm getting build failures in current svn - is there a .h file for the dgo stuff missing or is it expected that things won't build right now?
15:40.40CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30859 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/iges/ (7 files): remove use of private debug.h header
15:47.06``Eriksrc/conv/Makefile.am for libged?
15:47.30CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30860 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/ (33 files in 2 dirs): more debug.h removal
15:48.20starseeker_No, build failure is in comb.c in rt
15:48.29starseeker_or librt more likely
15:48.52starseeker_``Erik - any idea on my rt question?
15:48.53``Erikwell, that was intended for brlcad, actually, I get missing symbols in asc2g that have been migrated to libged...
15:49.05``Erikyou can always feed it a matrix
15:49.27starseeker_was hoping he could just toss it a zoom number... :-(
15:49.34``Erikuhm, d'no if there's a "size" or "zoom" in rt scripting, but I know you can use -p and play with the perspective number pretty easily
15:50.20starseeker_hmm
15:50.47brlcad``Erik: i added the missing Makefile.am and have a clean build here but have yet to hit up a few other systems
15:51.02brlcadstarseeker_: that's not enough info to help
15:51.33starseeker_OK, I can be more specific in a sec - just wanted to know if I should expect breakage while the reorg was going down
15:51.39brlcadand no, it's never expected that things won't build unless a commit message indicates such
15:51.42starseeker_k
15:51.47``Erikdidja forget to commit src/conv/Makefile.am ? I added ${GED} to asc2g_LDADD and it worked... would commit, but I can't remember my password O.o
15:52.09brlcad``Erik: nope, didn't need to add GED to anything
15:52.37brlcadso either different symbol muckage or a few binaries weren't cleaned out
15:53.12``Erikwdb_create_cmd() and wdb_init_obj are the symbols asc2g is missing
15:53.59CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30861 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/Makefile.am: add ${GED} to asc2g
15:54.35``Erikon a mac, no less
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15:56.19brlcadyeah probably unclean, i have a rebuild going now
15:56.38starseeker_is having to re-do, one sec.....
15:56.55starseeker_doggone it, my home machine didn't used to feel so slow...
15:59.41CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30862 10/brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/Makefile.am: add libged to g_diff
16:00.07CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30863 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (23 files in 10 dirs): remaining removal of debug.h
16:00.43``Erikheats up some stew
16:01.50brlcadthere we go
16:03.32CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30864 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/Makefile.am: add libged to mged
16:04.18CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30865 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/vdraw.c: restore the #if 0
16:04.44CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30866 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rttherm/Makefile.am: added ${GED} to rttherm
16:05.20brlcadnotes new warnings on tire.c
16:05.30starseeker_yeah, sorry 'bout that
16:05.45starseeker_working on it...
16:06.03brlcadnp, didn't know if you noticed
16:06.17starseeker_me just got done ripping the guts out of the ellipse logic :-)
16:06.18brlcadsome day we'll be able to turn on Werror :)
16:06.36``Erikoutside of src/other, mebbe
16:07.17starseeker_Ah, there it is
16:07.21starseeker_heads to pastebin...
16:07.52starseeker_http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m59981cca
16:08.13starseeker_hmm - brep_test this time.
16:08.24brlcadstarseeker_: so what is that error telling you?
16:09.15``Erikdoes not like having 4+ vcs's on his computers :(
16:09.27starseeker_libtool isn't finding symbols in librt.so that it thinks should be there?
16:09.52starseeker_thought this was indicating a missing include file, but could easily be wrong...
16:10.13CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30867 10/brlcad/trunk/src/Makefile.am: make libged required if benchmark (asc2g) needs it
16:10.22``Erik<-- points at the C compilation pipeline
16:10.53brlcadstarseeker_: close, it's saying librt references some symbols that are not being resolved
16:11.27starseeker_Ah - need to do what ``Erik was doing earlier and include libged in the Makefile.am?
16:11.30brlcadmissing symbols aren't include files, they indicate linkage/library
16:11.46brlcadexactly
16:11.50``Erikcreates new toplevel project; clbrlcad
16:11.54brlcadwhich may have already happened, have to make sure you're up to date
16:11.57``Erik(what? if we have jbrlcad, we can have clbrlcad!)
16:12.18brlcadwould like to buy a vowel
16:12.27``Erikrbbrlcad?
16:12.37``Erikpybrlcad? plbrlcad? *shudder*
16:12.48``Erikooh ooh ooh, asmbrlcad :D
16:13.06brlcadmlbrlcad!
16:13.32``Erikocamlbrlcad?
16:13.45``Erikwhat does haskell like? hs?
16:14.17``Erikshelves his evil musings and returns to cooking lunch
16:14.43brlcadmunches on pistachios
16:15.42starseeker_was up to date...
16:15.52starseeker_adding ged got most of it, now missing TclReFree...
16:16.00``Erikhunger get what hunger want *grunt*
16:17.01brlcadhum, cad's not responding
16:17.32brlcadwonders if the storm took out power
16:17.59``Eriklook at the uptimes of the others?
16:19.57brlcadyeah...
16:20.01brlcadlooks like it went down
16:20.09brlcad7 hours ago
16:20.18starseeker_grr - anybody know where to get TclReFree?
16:20.29``Erikgrep or cscope know
16:20.46brlcadthe prefix is a little hinty
16:20.47``Erikdave g was impressed with cscope O.o
16:21.07``Erikhehehe I was waiting for the "oh... dur..." :D
16:21.31starseeker_right, but I added ${TCL} and suddenly my GED errors came back...
16:27.25starseeker_hmm - ${TCL} isn't doing it...
16:28.05``Erikhttp://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1796952  awesome placement
16:29.15CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30868 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/Makefile.am: Add libged to librt
16:29.16``Erikhttp://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1796900  guh *shudder*
16:29.34starseeker_``Erik:  Anything wrong with that tweak?
16:29.53``ErikI d'no? am I supposed to look at it? O.o
16:30.04starseeker_twood be nice...
16:32.24``Erikhrm, I didn't seem to need it... the older revision works fine for me O.o
16:32.39starseeker_hmm
16:33.42``Erikof course, I'm only testing on mac right now
16:43.26*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54875A30.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:46.38*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-80-42.dclient.hispeed.ch)
16:49.36brlcadstarseeker_: libged should be relying on librt, not the other way around
16:55.58starseeker_hmm
16:59.36CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30869 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/Makefile.am: revert libged addition - librt shouldn't use libged
17:03.37starseeker_OK, so guess #2 is that on my system libged is getting listed as something librt should be using by accident
17:16.54starseeker_``Erik, brlcad:  Both of you had successful builds with current svn?
17:20.31``Erikja
17:22.30``Erikdoesn't understand what the deal with all these people painting their skin orange and spiking their hair is... like modern day oompa loompas or something
17:43.02poolio``Erik: Go Os?
17:47.23``Erikhuh?
17:58.30brlcadstarseeker_: no it doesn't necessarily mean that (wrt #2)
18:00.14CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30870 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (Makefile.am debug.h): remove debug.h
18:00.47``Erikhuzzah, b'bye debug.h
18:04.30CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30871 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): renmae global.c to globals.c to match libbu/libbn
18:09.25CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30872 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/bigE.c: remove k&r dead code
18:15.44yukonbobmorning cadheads
18:23.05brlcadhowdy yukonbob
18:23.13CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30873 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/bool.c: comment consistency cleanup
18:25.56CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30874 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/brep_test.cpp: remove using statement
18:43.12``Erikyet more oompa loompas http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1790181
19:01.24brlcadthinks ``Erik's time would be much better spent coding
19:03.34CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30875 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (db5_bin.c globals.c): move the binu_types global array from db5_bin.c to globals.c; make the binu_types array be static since nobody else uses it. libged needs binu_types.
19:07.46CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30876 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db5_comb.c: comment cleanup
19:16.44PrezzKennedySunday should be the day of programming rest ;)
19:19.45CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30877 10/brlcad/trunk/include/db5.h: DB5_EXPORT label
19:25.28CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30878 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (db5_io.c globals.c): move the db5_enc_len global array from db5_io.c to globals.c
19:31.40CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30879 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/fortray.c: the struct partition fr_global_head doesn't need to be global, make it static; cleanup comments too
19:34.47CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30880 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/importFg4Section.c: make grid_pts static
20:07.56*** join/#brlcad cad75 (n=51d5b6c8@bz.bzflag.bz)
20:09.40brlcadhello cad75
20:10.07alex_joniyou scared him :)
20:12.06brlcadapparently
20:30.01starseeker_PrezzKennedy:  programming was just an example ;-)
20:30.26starseeker_figures ``Erik's time could be better spend doing almost anything rather than looking for modern oompa loompas
20:30.33starseeker_er s/spend/spent
20:38.13CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30881 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Remove some unneeded orientation hackery logic that was causing bugs in some cases.
20:40.30CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30882 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Remove the unneeded orientation option from CalcInputVals
20:40.35starseeker_phew
20:40.48yukonbobhey starseeker_  -- how're tricks?
20:40.55starseeker_not too bad - yourself?
20:41.00yukonbobnot bad, not bad
20:41.10starseeker_has got tires on the brain...
20:41.25yukonbobstill no 7.12.x building on my system, but I think I've got deeper software issues that just BRL-CAD...
20:41.32starseeker_ow
20:41.39yukonbobstarseeker_: does the program scale to bicycle wheels as well?
20:41.45starseeker_erm.
20:42.01starseeker_in theory I suppose it does, but I've never tested it there
20:42.02yukonbobre: ow -- I think it's got to do w/ TclStubs -- so I've got a route to chase :)
20:42.16yukonbobadds test-case to starseeker_'s function :)
20:42.47starseeker_that'd be even weirder than ``Erik's pulling up odd tire dimensions
20:42.57starseeker_bike tires have their own naming conventions
20:43.10yukonbobre: tire dimensions -- can you pick low-profile tires, mudders, etc?
20:44.16yukonbobstarseeker_: re: naming conventions -- sure, but if one were to map to some NCAL (Naming Convention Abstraction Layer), would a geometry look like a "real" tire?
20:44.28starseeker_heh - not quite.  You supply a dimensional string - e.g. 185/65R14
20:44.51starseeker_assuming I can model the tire correctly with these primitives, it would look fairly real yess
20:45.15yukonbob14" wheel, 185units wide, height == 65% of width, correct?
20:45.26starseeker_yeah
20:46.04starseeker_it's rather silly to mix units like that, but I guess that's just The Way It Is
20:46.30yukonbobdoesn't recall what the "185" unit is... what is it?
20:46.36starseeker_mm I believe
20:46.55yukonbobya -- I'd guess that -- confusing indeed.
20:48.54starseeker_it's actually a lot of fun when I'm not pounding my head on some obscure bug in the ellipse code...
20:49.26yukonbobbicycle off-road == inches (ie: 26" x 2.125"), road == "c" (ie: 700c x 18) mostly, though I believe there's a 27" road spec as well...
20:50.40starseeker_tires alone have probably got half a dozen floating around - someday I may decide to support more of them, but this little bit I can do is plenty for now...
20:51.18yukonbobnods -- first get it working, then add bloat, culminating in an integrated email client.
20:51.40starseeker_Hehe - deleted email will be re-named "roadkill"
20:51.46yukonbobheh
20:51.49starseeker_or better yet, spam
20:52.42starseeker_probably the way to do bike tires is to look at how the heck that wheel was done, then see if it can be abstracted.
20:53.01yukonbobyou mean the wheel in the rendering galler?
20:53.10starseeker_yes - the model is up on sourceforge as well.
20:53.53starseeker_probably should have studied it in the first place, before doing this... ah, well
20:54.23yukonbobya -- well, to make it even _more_ confusing -- if you wanted to support traditional tubulars, that'd be one thing, but a true clincher ("typical" tire, with an inner tube) would be interesting...
20:54.57starseeker_what shape are they?
20:55.15yukonbobwire/kevlar bead hooked into rim, sidewalls shaped at "whatever" shape, tread profile, etc.
20:56.28yukonbob<== would start with a torus and build tread on outside, then truncate interior and build inner-sidewall/bead
20:57.02starseeker_Here's the one that's already in the gallery:  http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1402243&group_id=105292&atid=641557
20:59.30yukonbobya -- I've not loaded that up...
20:59.39yukonbobdidn't realize the .g was in the distribution
21:00.19yukonbobwill be curious to see how collisions w/ the spokes are handled... and what was done w/ the tire...
21:00.45starseeker_you mean overlaps?
21:00.57yukonbobwould have drilled the spoke holes in the rim with alternating offsets too, but that's a design decision
21:01.29yukonbobstarseeker_: re: overlaps, ya -- as the spokes radiate from the hub in their cross-pattern, do they share space?
21:01.44starseeker_I don't think so
21:01.51starseeker_this is actually quite an impressive model
21:03.59yukonbobhas part of this done /w newhub as a foundation... http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/wheel_cropped.png
21:04.35yukonbobis rough, but gives idea...
21:04.37starseeker_neat :-)
21:05.14yukonbobhub == glass, hence "artifacts" ;)
21:05.25yukonbobwas playing with mater at time of render ;)
21:05.45starseeker_needs to remember to add an air volume to his tires...
21:05.52starseeker_looks good bob
21:06.00starseeker_yukonbob rather
21:06.55*** join/#brlcad iday (n=iday@c-98-218-29-101.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
21:07.26starseeker_we'll have BRL-CAD "on the move" ;-)
21:07.53starseeker_someone will have to do a couple different kinds of engines now...
21:10.32starseeker_has the mildly psychotic idea of using one long pipe to wrap wire around a core for an electric motor...
22:09.32starseeker_With weekends like this, who needs work weeks?
22:16.24*** join/#brlcad Augmenter (n=alchemis@79-67-28-62.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
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23:20.32CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30883 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/many.c: general non-functionally-changing cleanup
23:25.45CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30884 10/brlcad/trunk/ (11 files in 7 dirs): encapsulate the former rt_material_head global linked list behind a getter/setter along with new routines to fill in a vls and dup the material list. this makes the global conveniently go away.
23:59.19``Erikw00t, simpsons time
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080428

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080428

00:15.02CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30885 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: add the missing CMakeLists.txt file for libged
00:17.21CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30886 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 4 dirs): move nirt.c to libged, it's a dgo ged command
00:28.05``Erikbecause you can't spell slaughter without laughter O.o
00:32.22CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30887 10/brlcad/trunk/include/mater.h: add header reinclusion protections and include raytrace.h for struct region
00:49.35CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30888 10/brlcad/trunk/ (14 files in 4 dirs): move vdraw.c, bigE.c, and qray.c from librt to libged too. that should be the remaining dgo functionality.
02:42.54CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30889 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: ws
02:43.56CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30890 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: get rid of the using statement, make namespace use explicit
03:01.45CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30891 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (9 files):
03:01.45CIA-20BRL-CAD: more migration of global vars to globals.c .. move rt_uniresource, nmg_eue_dist,
03:01.45CIA-20BRL-CAD: and the three nmg callback globals: nmg_plot_anim_upcall,
03:01.45CIA-20BRL-CAD: nmg_vblock_anim_upcall, nmg_mged_debug_display_hack. includes a periphery
03:01.45CIA-20BRL-CAD: cleanup and conversion of some globals to static
03:40.49CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30892 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): remove rt_nfunctab global, not really needed/useful as-is
03:47.36CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30893 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/globals.c: rt_functab is too big to import, just reference it
04:00.34CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30894 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: comment cleanup
04:17.48CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30895 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (g_arb.c globals.c): move the arb8 globals over to globals.c including the edit arb arrays and rt_arb_faces; with cleanup
04:33.52CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30896 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (g_cline.c globals.c): move rt_cline_radius to globals.c plus cleanup
04:34.09CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30897 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: ws
04:36.19poolioWow.
04:51.51CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30898 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (g_bot.c globals.c): move rt_bot_minpieces and rt_bot_tri_per_piece over from g_bot.c to globals.c; with comment cleanup
06:07.36CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30899 10/brlcad/trunk/include/magic.h: consolidate all public magic numbers into a single 'registry' so that structures can be uniformly validated in libbu
06:08.30CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30900 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (13 files): consolidate all public magic numbers into a single 'registry' in magic.h so that structures can be uniformly validated in libbu
06:09.42CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30901 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/rb_internals.h: push bu_rb's magic numbers up into magic.h, clean up comments
06:10.29CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30902 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/magic.c: no longer need all header numbers under the sun. this should help keep libbu decoupled properly. just include magic.h
06:16.17CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30903 10/brlcad/trunk/include/magic.h: leave a note that this header should be considered a PRIVATE header and should NEVER refer to the specific define values.
06:17.00CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30904 10/brlcad/trunk/include/Makefile.am: bu.h needs magic.h, install it
06:54.35CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30905 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/globals.c: ws
07:00.36*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
07:00.50CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30906 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: seems to be pretty pervasive that the framebuffer isn't refreshing, at least linux and mac under X11 aren't behaving properly. they only refresh when the window is forcibly refreshed (dirty rect0
07:33.22*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
07:37.38CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30907 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/shoot.c: reorder functions so forward declaration of rt_plot_cell() isn't necessary
07:40.12CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30908 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/spectrum.c: make global a static along with some header cleanup
07:47.34CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30909 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/table.c: give them semicolons regardless so that they indent correctly by automatic .. might have been solaris complaining originally, but see if it's still a concern (gcc is fine with the '};')
07:49.55CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30910 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/transform.c: cleanup
08:02.38CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30911 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (globals.c tree.c vers.c vlist.c): move (last?) two remaining straggler globals, rt_initial_tree_state and rt_vlist_cmd_descriptions, over to globals.c; tidy up while going along.
08:09.58d_rossbergbrlcad: i tried to post to the mentors-list but i got an error message
08:10.19d_rossbergbut i can see the message appended to the thread too
08:11.18d_rossbergso, have you seen something from me (probable not)
08:25.02*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
10:00.52mafmallo
10:01.21mafmif somebody tried to speak with me during the weekend, I was not here
10:01.30mafmit seems that the client got reconnected for some reason
10:02.34mafmand the log is not that big to save what you people told to me
11:50.44*** join/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@58.171.91.143)
12:00.15brlcadd_rossberg: no, I had not
12:02.15brlcadd_rossberg: common problem on some brosers is that your session expires while composing, should make sure you're actually logged in (try changing an account setting)
12:06.59brlcadwhich thread, what error?
12:07.37brlcadmafm: tis alright .. if it's important, they can say it again :)
12:07.44d_rossbergthe error was a gmail/googlemail confusion
12:08.22d_rossbergthe subscription was for gmail but i tried to send a post from a googlemail account
12:09.22brlcadcan you log into google groups using gmail ?
12:09.30brlcador trying to post via e-mail?
12:10.13brlcadwhich thread, I can verify I don't see anything
12:10.34*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl107.esjtvtli.sover.net)
12:12.15d_rossbergthe thread was: Let the introductions begin! :)
12:13.10d_rossbergit looks like there no real difference between gmail and googlemail
12:15.01d_rossbergi.e. if you send something to somebody with a googlemail account with @gmail it will reach the addressee
12:42.20mafmthere are more quirks even
12:42.44mafmif you have a.b.c@gmail.com, all combinations not including dots get to the same person
12:43.24mafmin my case, manuel.montezelo@ or manuelmontezelo@ or m.a.n.u.e.l.etc@gmail.com get to my inbox anyway
12:45.29``Erikweird
12:46.41mafmI knew about that when a neighbor sent me a mail, she missed the dot, and it got into my inbox anyway
12:46.43mafm:)
12:51.35d_rossbergbut obviously their error tolerance is limited :|
13:05.54``Erikhow's this for damn odd, when I originally got my gmail account, I had to put a dot in it because it said it was taken... but both the one I wanted and the one I got go to my dotted address O.o
13:09.54mafmyep, that caused problems sometimes
13:10.01mafmbut I don't know how it's resolved
13:10.17mafm(that's what I read a few months ago, didn't put much attention to it)
13:22.24``Erikpheer, fuzzy matching email addresses O.o hope you don't have important bits sent through gmail :D
13:35.09``Erikawesome, a core dump out of pine
13:49.20mafmwell, actually I use it normally without problems
13:54.05brlcadd_rossberg: they may be moderated/pending given that thread already has 400+ posts
13:54.21brlcadthere was a comment the other day about how people were still posting to that thread :)
13:54.26brlcadafter bart's message
13:56.05``Erikhuh, bill kendrik is in gsoc, too
14:00.49CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30912 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (magic.h mater.h): wtf was I smoking .. don't cross the streams ray
14:01.12``Erikheh, ironical that I'd just read the second on the wiki about good commit messages and bad ones *smirk*
14:01.36brlcad:)
14:02.55d_rossbergbrlcad: anyway, i'll repost it today evening
14:03.30brlcadd_rossberg: okay, I'll ask lh if anything is up
14:03.56brlcadshe won't be on for a couple hours still
14:04.16*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@h-67-103-183-185.mclnva23.covad.net)
14:05.32``Erikthinks he needs to buy a power sander and a couple cans of wood stain and sealant before he pressure washes his deck O.o
14:05.45d_rossbergbrlcad: i hope i've successfully switched the subscription to my googlemail account, thats why i hope it will work now
14:05.46``Eriksucker not only takes away the dirt and moss, but paint, stain, wood, ...
14:05.58*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@70.108.244.218)
14:06.37*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.192.202)
14:17.00CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30913 10/brlcad/trunk/include/mater.h: add DECL wrappers for C++ compilation
14:18.18CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30914 10/brlcad/trunk/include/dg.h: add proper file header docs for what this header is and is for
14:20.44CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30915 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (Makefile.am ged.h raytrace.h): add ged.h to the header list for the new LIBGED. it provides the declarations for wdb_obj, view_obj, and indirectly for dg_obj (through dg.h)
14:29.22``Erikhuh, dave wheeler is, too O.o lots of old faces poppingup
14:32.59*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.7.205)
14:33.11andrecastelohey everyone :D
14:33.28``Erikhowdy
14:33.47andrecastelohey ``Erik, what's up?
14:34.20``Eriknot much, relaxing at home, watching the rain and updating a few fbsd machines
14:35.29``Erikreading up on this gsoc mentor traffic, sheesh there's a lot O.o sure hope it dies down a bit :D
14:36.16andrecasteloif you think that's a lot of traffic, you haven't seen the student list :D
14:37.44andrecastelo``Erik: also, http://andrecastelo.wordpress.com
14:38.34``Erikawesome
14:38.39brlcadandrecastelo: sweet
14:38.55``ErikI was about to harrass brlcad about finishing the migration to the new machine so we could set up some blog software for gsoccers
14:39.37andrecastelohehehe
14:40.32``ErikI also had a minor brain queef this morning about a good 'baby step' for the MLT work... claiming a light model # and stubbing it to a simple flat shader or something to get a feel for the guts and small patch, and to get an 'ugly detail' out of the way up front
14:41.31``Erikd'no if it's a good idea, just throwing it out there for people to comment on O:-)
14:42.41``Erikwoops, you're in trouble now, andré, I have that page bookmarked
14:42.54CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30916 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (8 files): header and identity cleanup, add them to a libged group for doxygen. removed unused headers and clean up some comments
14:43.13brlcad``Erik: you were thinking of adding it as a lighting model to rt?
14:43.34``Erikyeah, why, you were thinking of having rtmlt?
14:45.18brlcadyeah, not strongly, but I'd thought something like 'pt' that used the same raytrace interface as the other rt* apps, but did its own thing
14:46.11brlcador whatever it'd get named, that wasn't so important
14:46.17``Erikhm, we seem to have two competing precedents going :)
14:47.24brlcadyeah, and probably either can work for this
14:47.43``Erik<-- kinda figured the light model approach would be a bit easier and quicker
14:48.00andrecastelocouldn't we add the bidirectional path tracer to RT and the rest of the MLT to something like rtmlt?? then it would be easier later to add lighting models that use the path tracer
14:48.15brlcadthe tradeoff is probably the fact that rt's option namespace is full and you wouldn't have to weed through as much regarding the assumptions in rt that it's not a path tracker
14:48.40``Erikphoton mapping offers an approach, arcane as it is
14:49.07brlcadandrecastelo: MLT is bidirectional path tracing
14:49.41brlcadphoton mapping isnt' just arcane, it was shoed in totally half-assed
14:49.48andrecasteloyeah, the rest i was talking about is really small (the mutation part)
14:50.11``Erikit's a modified bidirectional path tracing, the 'raw' pathtracing that rise does is also bidirectional path tracing, but far more brute force
14:50.14``Erikiiuc
14:51.30brlcadandrecastelo: yeah, I don't think that distinction matters here -- the difference from rt's perspect is where you hook in the logic; rt has lighting models that modify the manner in which rays are fired, rt *apps* fully override the ray-trace 'view' interface to do something similar
14:52.34brlcadmlt is that, but the distinction at this point is .. pointless .. it doesn't matter for whether it's a light model or a new bin or really affect how it's named, that's just a couple lines in the docs
14:53.23andrecasteloi see
14:53.25``Erikthe state of things is a bit confusing :)
14:53.42andrecastelobut would mlt be chosen just as photon mapping is?? (the number thing Erik was talking about)
14:55.00brlcadandrecastelo: that is the question at hand..
14:55.36brlcadregardless of photon mapping (which *really* is a bad example to follow) .. the issue boils down to either making another binary app for this, or hooking it into rt
14:56.15brlcadhooked into rt, it has to be optional and default off of course -- so that means it would have to be a lighting model and maybe rewrite some other pieces of rt that assume direct ray-tracing
14:57.22``Erik(should we put "unfuck photon mapping interface" in the todo?)
14:59.38andrecasteloI guess i was following photon mapping example too much :D
15:00.55brlcadas a new application, it means you have less to deal with wrt existing code but you also loose "some" of the infrastructure that rt already provides (e.g. gamma settings, some parallel bits, framebuffer hooks) that you'd have to implement (at least some of)
15:07.56brlcad``Erik: could put that in the todo .. it's about in as usable a state though as adrt was .. almost amounts to rewriting most of it for it to be actually useful
15:09.23brlcadeven when it works, it doesn't do anything useful really and that's aside from how it was tacked in the code throughout optical and rt
15:12.57``Erik<-- wouldn't mind seeing it kluge geometry by adding a bounding cube/sphere and light source of they're not found... *shrug*
15:13.56brlcadthere are already light sources, just not with the "right" settings for photomapping to work
15:14.04brlcad*default* lights
15:15.00``Erikyeah, the box is the killer for that one, I'd imagine
15:15.14``Erikoh, and the light can't have a diameter of 0, heh :D
15:15.14brlcadthe bounding cube/sphere could be useful but the reason that's needed was mainly because it doesn't bother to check where the model is
15:34.37CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30917 10/brlcad/trunk/include/solid.h: header needs bu.h and raytrace.h to be self-contained
16:03.04CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30918 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 3 dirs):
16:03.04CIA-20BRL-CAD: add a globals.c to the build for libged with the single global it presently
16:03.04CIA-20BRL-CAD: uses. removed one of the other vdraw globals by making the interface between
16:03.04CIA-20BRL-CAD: vdraw and dg clean enough that the command table could be made static.
16:20.35CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30919 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: generate POSIX 1003.1-1988 tarballs (256 char paths, allows empty dirs, pretty portable), not the default V7 tar format (which limits to 99 char paths and no empty dirs)
16:22.34CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30920 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: bah, tar-ustar is 1.9+
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18:19.27CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30921 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Add extra trimming for 'truck' profile to avoid tread looking like it is flaring out.
18:19.55starseekernow has to redo screenshots again... arrrgh...
18:34.14CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30922 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Tweak truck tread to clear up cut artifacts.
19:01.00mafmbye
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21:52.20CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30923 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/globals.c: erm, lost the header. need dg.h to calculate the storage size of HeadDGObj.
22:12.21CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30924 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/cmd.c: needs to call vdraw_cmd(), was renamed from dgo_vdraw_cmd()
22:13.03CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30925 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: declare a Ged_Init() Tcl interface for libged
22:18.59CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30926 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/tcl.c: remove the calls to Wdb_Init, Dg_Init, Vo_Init from librt since they're no longer in librt ... they need to be provided by libged if needed so there's not a cyclic dependency. big ws cleanup too.
22:20.26CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30927 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): initial tcl interface to libged so we can call Wdb_Init, Dgo_Init, and Vo_Init and provide Ged_Init for dynamic loading from within tcl.
22:48.42CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30928 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/Makefile.am: need TCL_CPPFLAGS now that there are tcl routines..
22:49.11CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30929 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: GED_LIBS needs to come *after* RT_LIBS if w'ere going to use it.
22:53.19CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30930 10/brlcad/trunk/src/Makefile.am: librtserver doesn't need libged to move it to benchmark dirs
23:34.55CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30931 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: libdm uses HeadDGObj and drawable geometry now in libged
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080429

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080429

01:17.30*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:02.51starseeker_Grr... librt, why do you care about TclReFree???
02:14.06*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (i=1000@s142-179-54-198.bc.hsia.telus.net)
02:39.25CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30932 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (tire.1 tire.c): Tire thickness, hub width, and tread depth can now be floating point numbers.
06:18.45CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30933 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/linkroot.sh: if the paths match up, just symlink to the basename of the provided installation dir instead of using the full path
06:23.40CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30934 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/make_pkg.sh: yucky, icky quote typos make the dust bunnies angry
06:30.49CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30935 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/macosx/openUp.c: quell warnings
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07:07.00CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30936 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/bigE.c: libged doxygen group
08:03.26*** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
08:51.02CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30937 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/make_dmg.sh: fix the dmg creation, it wasn't copying the background file onto the dmg for a couple reasons. add a few printing statements to keep track of progress too.
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10:26.20mafmhi
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12:31.30thing1hey
12:32.10CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r30938 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/generic/tcl.h:
12:32.10CIA-20BRL-CAD: take the dynamic C runtime macro _DLL into consideration for the dynamic TCL library too
12:32.10CIA-20BRL-CAD: it is not sure that a dynamic TCL library should be compiled with a static CRT
12:32.10CIA-20BRL-CAD: but this modification corrects the CRT declarations only, not the CRT to use
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14:38.02CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r30939 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (bio.h config_win.h):
14:38.02CIA-20BRL-CAD: removed MSVC 6.0 exceptions
14:38.02CIA-20BRL-CAD: this version of the Microsoft compiler won't be supported any more
14:57.18CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r30940 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/globals.c: the MS Windows build needs the types from windows.h
15:05.41CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r30941 10/brlcad/trunk/include/conf/CMakeLists.txt: escape backslash
15:15.00CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r30942 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/ (4 files in 4 dirs):
15:15.00CIA-20BRL-CAD: CMake for tcl85.dll and tclpip85.dll
15:15.00CIA-20BRL-CAD: (MS Windows only)
15:18.00CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r30943 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): created BrlcadCore.dll: a kind of brlcad.dll which can make use of TCL (i.e. no TclDummies.c)
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17:06.00brlcadhumm
17:10.26mafmo/
17:27.05mafmbrlcad: my mentor never joins IRC, does he?
17:36.36brlcadmafm: hmm, not much :)
17:36.47brlcadi've been trying to get him to but he's very "old school" :)
17:38.39brlcadfeel free to use me or any of the other mentors as backup though .. the mentors are not meant to be the sole POC for technical input/direction
17:38.51brlcadthey're more to keep track of progress and evaluation
17:44.44mafmyep, I know and I already read your info
17:45.03mafmbut I think that I should talk a bit with him anyway
17:48.05brlcadyeah, you should e-mail him :)
17:52.42mafmokie dokie
17:58.03brlcadmafm: oh, and don't forget the design doc when you get the chance, that gives him something to actually talk about ;)
17:58.46mafmsure, I have the browser open since last week, but only half the work done
17:58.51brlcad:)
18:01.19mafmI finished with most of my pending mail today and got the Slashdot's count down to less than 150 articles
18:01.42mafmbut I guess that I should get things sorted out with my broken laptop before warranty expires :D
18:15.49mafmone thing about the patches that you were talking about in the documentation, in order to get commit access...
18:16.24mafmhow is that achieved in projects tackling new areas, as mine is supposed to be? do I have to delve into other areas first?
18:32.53mafmwell, heading home now...
18:33.09mafmbye
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18:46.04brlcadoop
19:03.43PrezKennedyboring day at work... so im fiddling with an IRCd on my server
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20:30.15``Erikheh, he ran away too quick
22:01.21*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
22:01.21*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code, see http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code || GSoC student selections are announced! See http://code.google.com/soc/2008/brl/about.html
22:03.08brlcadstarseeker_: could be
22:03.43starseeker_that poses a problem...
22:03.55brlcadnot saying it is true
22:03.57brlcadjust "could be"
22:04.05brlcadhave to look through the interface
22:04.22brlcadmk_rcomb used to, dunno about mk_addmember
22:05.56brlcadyeah, looks like it does expose it
22:06.13brlcadslaps starseeker_ around for not reading the header
22:07.53starseeker_mutters about the man page and looks for the header instead...
22:11.00brlcadthat manual page is considerably out of date
22:11.07brlcadit still refers to FILE pointers
22:11.22brlcadwe've not used file pointers for many years
22:11.32brlcadyou should update the header, clean it up
22:11.54brlcador come up with a good/better less-manual way to keep them in sync
22:19.48starseeker_Am I reading the header right that mk_lcomb does not expose the air flag, but mk_comb does?
22:27.57starseeker_Ah, I think that's got it...
22:30.19CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30944 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Add air region inside of tire.
22:33.13starseeker_groans in dismay as he realizes the air wireframes will significantly change the wireframe screenshots and he has to redo them again...
22:33.26starseeker_ah, well, the cost of progress
22:38.48CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30945 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 3 dirs): remove obsolete libwdb interfaces for strsol, reg4, and spl. this includes mk_trc(), mk_bsolid(), mk_bsurf(), mk_strsol(), mk_rcomb(), mk_fcomb(), mk_memb(), and mk_fwrite_internal().
22:39.08starseeker_is beaten to the punch by brlcad
22:39.29brlcadthere's plenty more to do, go for it :)
22:39.32starseeker_hehe
22:40.00starseeker_were you stripping it out of the code?
22:40.41starseeker_diffs
22:41.03starseeker_ah
22:44.42brlcadi mean cleanup in general, there's lots of loving that libwdb could use
22:46.19starseeker_indeed
22:55.29*** join/#brlcad MTee (n=MT@41.233.133.230)
22:56.40CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30946 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (tire.1 tire.c): Add -s option to specify radius of maximum sidewall width point.
23:18.48*** part/#brlcad MTee (n=MT@41.233.133.230)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080430

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080430

01:34.17CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r30947 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs):
01:34.17CIA-20BRL-CAD: Added support for a variable length byte buffer (bu_vlb). Similar to bu_vls,
01:34.17CIA-20BRL-CAD: but not string based (null byte is not special). Anticipated use in librtserver
01:34.17CIA-20BRL-CAD: which is scheduled to change its Java return to a simple byte array.
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02:42.36CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30948 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Add options to override the 'd' flag values, in order to have floating point dimensions as input.
02:53.11starseeker_weird
02:53.31starseeker_suddenly doesn't get raytraced output of tire, even though it was working before dinner...
02:53.55starseeker_wireframe's there...
02:54.28starseeker_decides sleep is in order first, and kicks off a couple fresh builds.
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05:38.15yukonbobevening, cadheads
05:42.40pacman87hi yukonbob
05:57.34yukonbobwhat's happening, pacman87 ?
05:57.48pacman87last week of school
05:57.55pacman87all the projects are due :(
05:58.17pacman87finals week is easy compared to this
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06:22.15yukonbob:P -- good luck w/ it all, pacman87
06:23.20pacman87thanks.  i plan on cranking out some more code this weekend when it's all over and i finally have some time
06:25.34yukonbobvery nice
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09:20.58BeerSerc_hi there. sourceforge is down, whereelse can I get a copy of the amd64 linux binary or source?
09:32.54kwizartBeerSerc_, which distrib ?
10:24.39BeerSerc_kwizart: gentoo
10:25.14kwizartarf! at least i have a src.rpm where you might take the source from (with some patches)
10:25.41kwizarthttp://rpms.kwizart.net/fedora/development/SRPMS/brlcad-7.12.2-1.fc9.kwizart.src.rpm
10:26.48BeerSerc_thank you, I'll try
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10:27.05mafmhowdy
10:27.47kwizartBeerSerc_, for the record, do you have a librt.so.1 in /lib64 on your system ?
10:28.56mafmstill with problems creating the package kwizart? :)
10:29.21kwizartwell, no the package works... but i guess there is still some minors things to fix
10:29.28BeerSerckwizart: Yes I have
10:29.53kwizartat least I need to see how to deal with glibc librt.so.1 in linux system
10:30.19kwizartand eventully split the package between differents composents...
10:30.25kwizartcomponents
10:31.20kwizartfor example, if some files might only be needed on server side for collaborative works... and others needed for workstation side
10:31.34kwizarti don't know brlcad well enought to sort this for now
10:38.35BeerSerckwizart: I just noticed that there is an ebuild for 7.12 in gentoo's science overlay, so installing it should not be too difficult
10:39.34kwizartBeerSerc, yep... i don't know how they deal with that problem thought...
10:39.50kwizartmaybe they still use rpathes
10:40.19BeerSercwhich problem is that exactly? I read something about glibc files, but in gentoos bugtracker, there are no bugs related to the 7.12 ebuild at all
10:40.40kwizartthat's not a problem specific with 7.12
10:41.34kwizarti would like to see this ebuild...if there is some patches from their side
10:42.22BeerSerchttp://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=149864
10:42.28BeerSerchttp://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=77197
10:47.14BeerSercah i found a working sourceforge mirror... so I can use the tar.bz2 ting
10:47.20BeerSercs/ting/thing/
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10:51.33kwizartrm librtserver.so
10:51.33kwizartln -s librt.so.19.0.1 librtserver.so
10:57.04kwizartthey build tcl/tk internally ? strange for a gentoo ebuild...
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11:35.27brlcadkwizart: bbiaw to help ..
11:39.51brlcadkwizart: the ebuild doesn't need to use tcl/tk internally, but there is still an issue with itcl/itck from portage iirc (and compiling them out of sync makes the build very unhappy)
11:40.03brlcadwanders off for a bit
11:40.08kwizartok
11:44.39BeerSerctime for a total noobish question: How can I start brlcad? there is nothing looking like a main binary in /usr/brlcad/bin...
11:51.03kwizartmged ?
11:52.05BeerSercah OK. thx
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12:24.17louipcheck sourceforge is down?
12:24.24alex_joniyup
12:24.49louipcheh it always seems like it just when I need to use the damn site
12:25.20alex_jonilouipc: maybe it's just all the time, and you only notice it when you need it :))
12:25.29louipchaha
12:26.07alex_jonigoogle gives 450.000 results for "sourceforge down"
12:26.26louipchttp://pastebin.ca/1002814
12:26.30louipcanyways I'll stick that there
12:26.46louipcdon't know if that's been encountered yet or not
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12:46.35andrecastelogood morning everyone
12:50.42clock_alex_joni: now you have to read through all of them, otherwise people tell you STFW or UTFG
12:51.04alex_joniclock_: sorry?
12:51.33clock_alex_joni: sarcastic about the STFW acronym
12:51.52alex_jonidid I say that?
12:54.23alex_joniclock_: I usually try to keep it more polite (like GIYF :)
12:57.57mafmhi andrecastelo
12:58.43louipchah I don't know what any of those mean
13:02.54clock_AATNKWIM
13:03.04clock_An Acronym That Noone Knows What It Means
13:03.51mafmlouipc: that's funny, because in that case is perfectly applicable to you :)
13:05.19CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30949 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Whoopsie, tire thickness needs dztred to be calculated first.
13:19.45CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30950 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (tire.1 tire.c): Add docs for options to specify just width, ratio, or wheel diameter.
13:21.02louipcbwhahah
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14:05.17brlcadsf doesn't seem to be down now
14:07.45*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@static-70-108-244-218.res.east.verizon.net)
14:08.44*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:12.55brlcadd_rossberg: how critical are those tcl changes?  i fear they'll just get clobbered the next time tcl is updated
14:13.02brlcad(e.g. tcl 8.5.2 is out)
14:13.36brlcadand/or more importantly is there a way to work-around it that doesn't require a mod to tcl
14:19.03d_rossbergbrlcad: don't care about this change
14:19.31d_rossbergif you have a new tcl version put it into the repository
14:19.53brlcadi don't plan to anytime soon, there's no pressing need
14:20.21d_rossbergif it's a problem for me i'll look after after it
14:20.22brlcadbut just saying that someone might replace it on a whim just for the sake of upgrading (erik has that tendancy) .. didn't know if that'll break the cmake build or something
14:20.29brlcadokay
14:21.37d_rossbergthe whole tcl thing is "experimental" for me :)
14:22.23brlcadheh
14:23.55brlcadhrm, anyone recall the name of the apache load testing tool?  stfw isn't helping much
14:26.33starseeker_jmeter?
14:26.54starseeker_or apache bench?
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14:28.57archivistab
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14:37.04archivistI couldnt get the full list of bench test tools, the bot is dead in #apache at the moment
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16:47.08mafmbye
17:07.20louipcahmm
17:14.16``ErikSILENCE!
17:19.43archiviststop shouting Im trying to sleep
17:34.05``Erikoh, ok
17:34.14``Erikgrabs a metal trash can lid and starts banging it
17:34.15``Erik:D
17:34.41archivistzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
18:14.21``Erikthinks he spots starsuckers odd tcl link bug O.o
18:14.47``Erikpretends it's a cheezburger and stalks
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22:59.46starseeker_Ah HAH - http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m532f157a
23:00.01starseeker_or more specifically, libtcl8.5.so => /usr/brlcad/lib/libtcl8.5.so (0xb7799000)
23:00.15brlcadbingo
23:00.16starseeker_bad BRL-CAD, no system libtcl for you...
23:00.33starseeker_now, where are you going wrong...
23:00.41brlcaddidn't you say it was an --enable-all ?
23:00.45starseeker_yep
23:00.54brlcaddoes config.log confirm that?
23:01.12starseeker_<PROTECTED>
23:01.14brlcad(header at the beginning and summary at the end)
23:01.44brlcadoh, wait
23:01.52brlcadyou did an ldd on an uninstalled .so
23:02.00brlcadthat's not right
23:02.09brlcadyou can't do that (and expect correct answers)
23:02.13starseeker_grr
23:02.24brlcadthat's why the binaries run through scripts
23:02.32brlcadthose scripts set up the ld library paths
23:02.46brlcadiff you want to run the binary prior to install
23:03.07brlcadif you want to know the true ldd before install, you have to add it to the script
23:03.21brlcade.g. to src/mged/mged near the bottom before the exec
23:04.18starseeker_but the compile doesn't get that far...
23:04.44brlcadah, right failing at comb?
23:04.49starseeker_yep
23:04.57brlcadthen it just amounts to what's on the compile line
23:05.05brlcadadd that flag I mentioned to turn on verbose
23:05.12brlcadget the real gcc line
23:05.16starseeker_--debug ?
23:05.18starseeker_one sec...
23:05.29brlcador copy/paste the libtool line and remove the silent option
23:05.38starseeker_did that, actually...
23:05.48starseeker_pastebin coming up...
23:06.11brlcadpastebin's getting a fair bit of spam .. someone(tm) needs to turn on recaptcha for it
23:06.19starseeker_http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m61107cd0
23:06.37starseeker_are we spamming the bzflag irc channel by using it?
23:06.53starseeker_doubts most bzflag hackers care about brlcad...
23:07.36brlcadpresumably there is a libtcl8.5.so in /home/cyapp/cadtoplevel/brlcad/brlcad-build/src/other/tcl/unix ?
23:07.48brlcadno, it's fine to use
23:08.00starseeker_yes, it's there
23:08.02brlcadI could just as easily make that pastebin.brlcad.org
23:08.10brlcadit's not a symlink to nothing?
23:08.16brlcadit's an actual lib
23:08.27starseeker_yes, seems to be
23:08.40brlcadthen the next step is to check the lib for that symbol using nm
23:09.16starseeker_goes to find out what nm is...
23:09.19brlcadif it's in there, then you gotta take gcc/ld into a lower level debug mode; if it's not in there, you have to look into tcl's build to find out if it's supposed to be
23:10.41yukonbobwaves in
23:10.47starseeker_I'm looking for libtcl with nm in librt.so?
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23:11.33brlcadnope
23:11.38starseeker_Is the presence of -ltcl8.5 harmless?
23:11.52brlcadyou're looking at the symbols in libtcl8.5.so
23:11.56starseeker_ah
23:12.10brlcadis the symbol it's failing on actually in that library
23:12.50starseeker_00023590 t TclReFree
23:13.41brlcadout of curiostiy, if you move/delete /usr/brlcad/* does it still fail?
23:14.07starseeker_yep
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23:44.52starseeker_is out of his depth here...
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080501

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080501

00:09.12``Erikhrm
00:09.39``Eriksrc/other/tcl/generic/regexec.c uses TclReFree(), but I see nowhere in src/other/tcl where a definiton for that exists
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00:59.26starseeker_sigh - what's the next level of gcc debug?
01:02.59brlcadheh, no luck?
01:03.02brlcadreturns with mass quantities of sushi
01:03.31starseeker_it should work, but it doesn't - grrrrr
01:05.25brlcadstarseeker_: have you tried deleting all of /usr/brlcad ?
01:05.35starseeker_I moved it
01:05.42brlcadand still persists
01:05.48starseeker_yep
01:05.53brlcadk (good)
01:07.06starseeker_swaps in tcl 8.5.2 just for the heck of it...
01:12.55*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@74.86.45.130)
01:12.55*** join/#brlcad CIA-20 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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01:12.57starseeker_nah, that just busts something else
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01:13.31brlcadhowd you swap it in?
01:13.51starseeker_copied it in, left the parts that weren't in the tarball
01:13.51starseeker_crude way
01:13.51starseeker_probably not right
01:13.51brlcadheh
01:14.15brlcadyeah, not likely to work, even on a minor
01:14.24brlcadsince it's in libtcl from what you said ...
01:14.33brlcadit could be ordering
01:14.45brlcadtry running the gcc compile line directly, put the -ltcl8.5 on the end
01:14.46starseeker_ok...
01:15.07brlcadmight have to still be before -lz
01:18.54brlcadany luck?
01:19.20starseeker_having to restore tcl...
01:20.14brlcadrm -rf src/other/tcl src/other/tk && svn up
01:20.35starseeker_I did - rebuilding now :-)
01:20.47starseeker_'s machine must be slower than brlcad's
01:27.19starseeker_doesn't seem to change it
01:38.56brlcaddoes narrow the problem though
01:39.22brlcadnext thing to check would be to search for that symbol name through the sources for the libraries being linked, see who's using it
01:52.14starseeker_you mean a source code grep, or some sort of nm hunt?
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01:58.36starseeker_Interesting - an nm on the librt.so from rev 30848 gives a very different response than the one from the current rev
01:59.54starseeker_the nm report from 30848 indicates that librt.so at that time was NOT referencing TclReFree
02:04.16yukonbob!go joe hardy
02:06.56starseeker_the identical build command, supplied in both the old tree and the new, results in identical commands being generated (modulo path differences)
02:07.07starseeker_so the difference must be elsewhere
02:26.58starseeker_but where...
02:27.26starseeker_is there a chance the new libged is pulling in (or trying to) something that wouldn't have otherwise been pulled into librt?
02:27.58starseeker_is having a hard time coming up with any other plausible differences in librt or tcl...
02:37.54starseeker_no, that's not right - librt doesn't depend on libged
03:42.31starseeker_The actual gcc compilation of comb.c didn't include librt before, as near as I can tell... but compiling without that makes no difference in the new tree I can see...
03:55.29starseeker_nm .libs/regionfix.o |grep Tcl
03:55.29starseeker_<PROTECTED>
03:55.42starseeker_That must be where librt is getting it from
04:07.54starseeker_datapoint:  removing the tcl/generic inclusion from the regionfix compile allowed the remainder of the librt build to successfully complete
04:39.48starseeker_OK, beyond any shadow of a doubt this is dodging the issue (which is why I'm not committing it), but the following just got me past librt on a compile:  http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m7a39831
04:45.14starseeker_wonders if maybe it's as simple as switching the order of tcl/unix and tcl/generic in configure.ac, but doesn't want to interrupt the build to test it...
04:50.29starseeker_Hmm, OK, now that's weird.
04:50.44starseeker_I just completed a build with the previous tweak, and installed it.
04:51.10starseeker_rt (from the command line) DOES work - I created a tire and raytraced it successfully.
04:51.36starseeker_mged, however, segfaults immediately
04:52.01starseeker_in gdb, this is the report:
04:52.14starseeker_0xb7e81ac6 in dgo_open_cmd (oname=0x8132f18 "mged", wdbp=0x0)
04:52.14starseeker_<PROTECTED>
04:52.14starseeker_296         BU_LIST_APPEND(&HeadDGObj.l, &dgop->l);
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04:52.52starseeker_I don't know if this is related to the hack I just made...
04:52.58starseeker_or some problem with libged?
04:53.30starseeker_looks at clock, realizes it's a new day, and decides to get some sleep...
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13:07.29Axman6how awesome. freebsd has a brl-cad port. it compiles fine, just can't run
13:08.05``Erikwhat's it do?
13:08.14``Erikyou might have to set your ITCL_PATH and ITK_PATH
13:08.41Axman6heh, well the error does mention that. what should they be set to?
13:08.58``Erikuhmmm, something like /usr/brlcad/lib/it{cl,k}
13:09.11``Erikshould fix the mged.sh script
13:11.00``Erikport comes up fine for me without having to set those O.o
13:11.07``Erikand I have no reference tot he incr stuff in my environment
13:11.17``Erikamd64/fbsd7
13:13.39Axman6YAY! brl-cad finally!
13:13.53Axman6yep, amd64
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13:48.57``Erikw00t
13:49.32``Eriknow, did you have the failure when you ran /usr/local/bin/mged.sh or /usr/local/brlcad/bin/mged ?
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15:03.37andrecastelohi folks
15:40.33brlcadhowdy andrecastelo
15:40.38brlcadhow goes it?
15:40.46andrecastelosup brlcad :D
15:40.57andrecastelofinally finished my final exams
15:41.06andrecasteloso i'm pretty happy
15:47.15brlcadcongratulations
15:47.24brlcaddid ya pass? ;)
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16:17.39andrecastelobrlcad: yup, i took 5 courses this semester, passed on 3 and i'll know about the last two on monday
16:24.23prasad_andre, u a soccer fan?
16:37.40andrecasteloprasad_: not really, why ?
16:38.57prasad_ronaldo in the news much?
16:41.11andrecasteloprasad_: oh yeah, i've heard about it
16:41.52andrecastelohe thought they were girls :b
16:43.47prasad_heh
17:40.21``Erikjiggles his buddha belly
17:41.16``Erikgrats, andré
17:41.56``Erikronaldo likes his trannies?
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18:58.04CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30951 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: Make sure CPPFLAGS are listed before the TCL generic directory for out of source builds - otherwise regfree gets defined by TCL and points to TclReFree, which seems to be undefined.
19:10.17brlcadaha, HeadDGObj isn't initialized
19:11.41brlcadbingo
19:23.17CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30952 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/setup.c: need to call the new Ged_Init() so that the HeadDGObj is initialized. it was initialized in Rt_Init(), but no longer with the new libged. unbreaks mged.
19:38.51CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30953 10/brlcad/trunk/ (77 files in 2 dirs): rename ged.c and ged.h to mged.c and mged.h so that the header doesn't conflict with the ged.h that was added for the new libged library
19:42.03*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
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19:59.31CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30954 10/brlcad/trunk/ (17 files in 10 dirs): remove BRLCAD_DEBUG from the build, Bob says it's no longer needed.
20:01.53*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@58.171.67.89)
20:58.20``ErikO.o
21:18.56CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r30955 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Begin cleanup to make tire follow HACKING formatting conventions.
21:20.17``Erikflicks boogers
21:22.07CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30956 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_metaball.c: adjust Blinn method evaluator to follow existing inside/outside convention
21:26.36CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30957 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_metaball.c: yay for magic numbers, changed constant to SMALL_FASTF for near-zero testing
21:27.58``Erikscratches his head
21:28.10``Erikflips brlcad off for mucking with his temporary hack :D
21:28.21brlcadmehs
21:28.39``Erikhere's one for ya
21:28.41brlcadtemp hacks have a tendancy to outlast their hacker ;)
21:29.24``Erikwhen I mged -c blah.g l mb.s, I get correct numbers (sweat == 1). When I rt blah.g mb.s, sweat == 0.
21:29.45``Erikhave any idea what's going on with my ball sweat? :D
21:30.18brlcadobviously mged excites you and rt does not
21:30.31``Eriklooks through prep
21:30.46``Erik(prep is not called by mged, correct?)
21:31.35``ErikI'm, uh, about to feel very retarded.
21:32.01``Erikhangs head in shame
21:32.22brlcadtsk tsks
21:32.46``Erikand damnit, some fool went and committed to my file
21:33.00CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30958 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_metaball.c: carry the goo value into prepared geometry.
21:37.23``Erikat least I got some fun ball sweat jokes out of it
22:58.56``Erikflicks boogers
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080502

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080502

01:26.36*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
03:14.00*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@c-67-172-239-24.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
03:20.27brlcadahh, that was fun
03:22.35iraytraceisn't sure he wants to know ;-)
03:23.24brlcad:) nothing so controversial..
03:23.39brlcadjust a fun dinner at the olive tree
03:23.50iraytracenods
03:49.29yukonbobhello, cadheads
03:50.52louipcoh no
03:51.01starseeker_eh?
03:51.43louipcmged segfaults right off the bat on my new build :(
03:51.51louipcinvestigates
03:51.53starseeker_Are you at latest svn?
03:51.59starseeker_brlcad fixed a bug that did that today
03:52.02louipc10950
03:52.10louipcawww dang
03:52.17starseeker_need to update :-)
03:52.47brlcadmy bad, should be fixed now
03:55.43CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30959 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs):
03:55.43CIA-20BRL-CAD: including all CPPFLAGS before the tcl includes could have some potentially
03:55.43CIA-20BRL-CAD: undesirable side effects, just include the one we know is needed to find the
03:55.43CIA-20BRL-CAD: right regex header. in related news, move the regex.h header out of our include
03:55.44CIA-20BRL-CAD: dir to src/other where it belongs, updating the build as needed.
04:04.09CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30960 10/brlcad/trunk/db/: ignore pinewood.g and lockfile
04:07.27CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30961 10/brlcad/trunk/db/: hm try harder to ignore lockfile, somehow slipped off. also ignore the operators.asc2g temp file
04:15.21starseeker_Fun with tires:  http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/m35-oldandnewtires.png
04:19.09starseeker_wonders if it would be a good idea to stash the input parameters in attributes somewhere ...
04:22.03brlcadvery nice
04:22.35starseeker_<will smith voice>old and busted, vs. new hotness</will smith voice> ;-)
04:22.37brlcadyou could replace them all and add a new top-level m35.new or something that has them instead of the existing for all tires, add the input params as attributes to the tires
04:23.57brlcadalas the m35 top-level hierarchy is a classic that can't change (but you can certainly add additional top-levels)
04:24.07starseeker_cool
04:24.18starseeker_would need to do something about the inner wheel first though
04:24.38starseeker_quite evidently the wrong hub design for an m35
04:25.14yukonbobstarseeker_: do you have two new tires on that truck?
04:25.22starseeker_yep :-)
04:25.24starseeker_good eye
04:25.33yukonbob:)
04:25.39yukonboband ea. has their own hub design?
04:25.57starseeker_no, I just ignored the overlaps for the quick'n'dirty screenshot
04:26.04starseeker_that's the old wheel hub up front
04:26.13yukonbobnods
04:26.23starseeker_back wheel has a larger one swallowed by the new tire
04:26.40starseeker_can't find any actual docs on what tires the m35 uses/used...
04:26.49yukonbobstarseeker_: cool work -- it's neat to see the power of automation in action
04:27.53yukonbobhi-5s starseeker_
04:27.57starseeker_thanks :-)
04:29.02starseeker_should sleep now...
04:30.53yukonbobprepares to grab 7.10.5, or whatever was just tagged, and try on this machine; maybe get a few hours of playing in before I hit 7.12.x again...
04:31.43yukonbobbrlcad: q: I've got the whole svn archive on my machine now -- can I tease the latest 7.10.x out of that, or do I have to do a co of svn w/ the proper tag?
04:32.45yukonbobstarseeker_: nn, chat later
04:46.03yukonbob??wasn't 7.10.5 just tagged
05:02.23louipc7.12.3?
05:03.01louipchmm
05:07.43yukonbobno -- /me is still thinking of the 7.10.x series... (haven't got 7.12.x working on my machine yet)
05:10.11louipcyeah I will try to get that working
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10:43.59mafmhai
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14:03.32brlcadhowdy mafm
14:04.07brlcadstill eagerly awaits http://brlcad.org/wiki/GSoC_2008_OpenGL_GUI_Framework :)
14:04.52brlcadshould probably be sans "GSoC_2008_" too, it's intended to be a general design doc
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14:30.52mafmbrlcad: do you think so? I still didn't submit it with that name, I think
14:35.49brlcadwhat do you mean?
14:36.14mafmremoving the GSOC part
14:36.42brlcadthe intent is to have a design doc that stays on the wiki that describes the design intent long long past gsoc, developer documentation
14:36.58PrezKennedyhowdy brlcad!
14:37.04brlcadit could be in the doc to say that this was part of gsoc, that you're the one working it, etc of course
14:37.16brlcadhowdy PrezKennedy
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14:38.04brlcadmafm: http://brlcad.org/w/index.php?title=GSoC_2008_OpenGL_GUI_Framework&action=history  :-)
14:43.08mafmah ok, just that
14:43.12mafmso I moved it now
14:45.26CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r30962 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_metaball.c: Blinn blob method normals added, thanks to Ed for the math fu. Lame assertion removed.
14:47.08CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30963 10/brlcad/trunk/ (BUGS NEWS): add a local variables footer so the files enter text mode and fill to column 70
15:07.34PrezKennedybrlcad, how many hours of sleep did you say you usually get?
15:14.26``Erikbrlcad, japan house?
15:14.36prasad2ah japan house
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15:17.06``Erikmorning, andré
15:17.13andrecastelomorning ``Erik
15:20.02mafmhi
15:20.11andrecastelohey mafm
15:32.54PrezKennedymmm japan house
15:32.57PrezKennedyi miss chinese
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17:28.50``Erikahhh, nice long lunch
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18:42.23CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30964 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: Add mirror_origin parameter. The axis parameter has been changed to mirror_dir.
18:45.18CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30965 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/mirror.c: This enhancement adds the ability to mirror using an arbitrary vector. The vector's origin can also be specified.
18:47.23CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30966 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/chgmodel.c: Modified the mirror command to make use of the more flexible rt_mirror. The command syntax has also changed.
18:59.46CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30967 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: Update mirror command's help string.
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20:19.16``Erikscratches his pointy head
20:25.35mafmbye
20:25.45``Eriklater
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080503

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080503

00:18.25starseeker_'s eyebrows go up as he beholds the depths of m35...
00:18.31starseeker_eeeeeekkkk
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01:39.11louipchmm
02:05.18``Erikhookers
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03:43.42brlcadyukonbob: nope, it's not yet
03:43.53brlcadwe're apparently still in some "problem" category for the coverity scanner
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04:44.16yukonbobfscking coverity
04:47.08yukonbobbrlcad: "hi", btw -- hope things are going well :)
04:51.05brlcadthey are! :)
04:51.17brlcadfound his beloved blade the other day! .. *giddy*
04:51.52brlcadi'd thought i'd lost it over a year ago, presumed I'd left it in a hotel in arizona as that was the last time I'd remembered seeing it
04:52.28brlcadturns out it was just buried really deep in my bicycling gear (which I *had* checked as I searched for it for months)
04:52.51brlcadso I found it when I fully emptied out my gear bag for a ride the other day .. so excited :-)
04:53.00brlcadloves his kershaw knife
04:58.52yukonboblost his his nice ka-bar this summer, leather wrapped handle goodness, in somebody else's clutches now, I'm sure...
04:59.04yukonbob*this past summer
05:03.43brlcadhttp://www.bladehq.com/images/knives/brand/kershawblurtantotacbkserr.jpg  <-- spring assisted kershaw .. solid action, beatiful precision :)
05:05.45brlcadis curious to try a crkt assist
05:19.18yukonbobdisconnects his screen -- internet is teh sux0rs in new digs, atm
07:17.21CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03louipc * r30968 10/brlcad/trunk/src/README: Add a line about libged in src/README
07:17.34brlcadwoot
07:43.51CIA-20BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30969 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob rewrote mirror with new options for mirroring about an arbitrary/given vector specified by a direction, origin point, scalar value the given vector and the traditional x/y/z axes.
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09:09.02quentusrexHello
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11:40.20``ErikgodDAMNIT
11:40.29``Eriknow I'm writing book length emails. Damnit.
13:50.55brlcadmuahahaha
13:51.13brlcadhello quentusrex
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20:24.32quentusrexhello brlcad.
20:24.58quentusrexI just watched iron man and that movie just revitalized my interest in MCAD.
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23:03.19brlcadquentusrex: heh, really?  why's that
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080504

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080504

02:05.39quentusrexbrlcad, when you see the movie you'll understand.
03:10.53starseeker_Man, the Aptera is one nifty looking car
03:11.18starseeker_bets that body shape can't be made without breps...
03:12.14CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03louipc * r30970 10/brlcad/trunk/INSTALL: Add line to INSTALL mentioning doc/README.Linux
03:13.21CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03louipc * r30971 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/README.Linux: Add notes about building for Arch Linux to doc/README.Linux.
03:26.09CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03louipc * r30972 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/archlinux/brlcad.sh: Remove comments from Arch Linux profile.d script.
03:29.50starseeker_Alright, NOW we're talking.  This would make an awesome model, given sufficient insanity on the part of the modeler:  http://www.vcalc.net/disassy/
03:31.38CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03louipc * r30973 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/archlinux/PKGBUILD:
03:31.38CIA-29BRL-CAD: Fix PKGBUILD:
03:31.38CIA-29BRL-CAD: add bc as makedepends,
03:31.38CIA-29BRL-CAD: add x86_64 to arch,
03:31.38CIA-29BRL-CAD: update md5sum for profile.d script,
03:31.39CIA-29BRL-CAD: properly install bdl license.
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04:37.48CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30974 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/ (Makefile.am rcs2log): no longer need rcs2log
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11:56.29mafmhai
12:49.45brlcadhowdy mafm
12:54.34mafma sunday in the lab... no goot
14:13.16mafmquiet in here today :)
14:35.30brlcadmafm: yeah, some days up some days down
14:35.33brlcadbusy coding ;)
14:43.01mafm:)
14:44.06mafmbtw, about the commit rights... how's that supposed to be handled for projects as mine, creating new tools?
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14:53.07andrecastelogood morning folks :D
15:02.55mafmhi andrecastelo
15:06.50pacman87good morning
15:15.48brlcadmafm: just like anyone else working on the project
15:16.29brlcadyou'll still have to integrate with other code and even though it's a "new" tool, it should still integrate well
15:18.30brlcadthe idea is to be comfortable working on any part of the code, not just working on a particular piece in isolation
15:19.55mafmso what am I supposed to do, write patches for other areas?
15:22.08brlcadideally yes, or even better for the areas that might relate to what you're working on
15:23.00brlcadwhich for yours might be something in libpkg, libged, librt, libbu, libbn
15:28.14brlcadgreat to see the wiki update
15:29.02brlcadfyi, i moved the comments over to the discussion page
15:29.34pacman87are there any plans for GSoC student blogs/dev logs?
15:29.56brlcadpacman87: plans of what sort?
15:30.31pacman87or just use the wiki user page?
15:31.36brlcadmm, well like I mentioned in the e-mail, that's something for you to sort out with your mentor really, but either someplace on the wiki or on a blog you set up somewhere would be my suggestion
15:32.01brlcadjust something that everyone can get to ideally
15:32.45brlcadyour user page would work great I'd imagine given that's already available
15:34.10mafmokish
15:34.21mafmthe mentor didn't say or modify anything
15:34.34brlcadhe mostly works during the week, family on weekends
15:34.42brlcadhe was waiting for the wiki update
15:35.01brlcadfeel free to e-mail him to let him know :)
15:35.47mafmI did -- that's what I meant with "he didn't say anything"
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15:36.05brlcadah, okak
15:37.11brlcadit took you a week to upload it, I'd give him more than a day to say something ;)
15:52.27mafmguess so
16:02.06pacman87i added links to my design document and dev log in http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2008
16:02.28brlcadcool
16:09.45CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30975 10/rt^3/trunk/autogen.sh: update to the latest autogen.sh script
16:33.04brlcadmafm: woot :)
16:37.05mafmit wasn't me, it was a pixie
16:37.08mafmdamn pixies
16:37.31brlcad:)
16:37.37brlcadhugs the pixies
17:34.56yukonbobwaves in -- hello cadheads
17:44.48mafmhi yukonbob
17:45.48yukonbobhey mafm  -- I'm reading you've got the Power of Pixies on your side...
17:52.32louipchttp://pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF103-Nice_Shirt.gif
17:53.16mafmnot really, they act on their own
18:23.55yukonboblouipc: *exactly*
18:23.57yukonbob:)
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19:11.56yukonbobhey clock_
19:13.38mafmwell, going home
19:13.51mafmwaves cad-heads bye bye :P
19:42.32thing0morning
19:49.12brlcadhowdy thing0
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21:10.26CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30976 10/brlcad/trunk/ (18 files in 18 dirs):
21:10.26CIA-29BRL-CAD: add the -no-undefined libtool LDFLAGS flag so that libtool will ensure that all
21:10.26CIA-29BRL-CAD: symbols in each library are resolved properly. this helps preserve more obscure
21:10.26CIA-29BRL-CAD: portability problems for systems like windows and aix. required a few mods for
21:10.26CIA-29BRL-CAD: mac os x including providing -fexceptions as a libtool -Wc compilation flag
21:10.29CIA-29BRL-CAD: (since 1.5 strips -f options). also pass -framework options through with
21:10.31CIA-29BRL-CAD: -Xlinker so that libtool similarly doesn't strip them from the linkage
21:25.26CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30977 10/brlcad/trunk/Makefile.am: add -w to the default make flags so that the path is included in the build logs for context
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080505

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080505

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11:06.45mafmhallo
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11:34.29thing0hey
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12:00.23Axman6brlcad: yt?
12:01.09Axman6or any devs really...
12:03.04pacman87~ask
12:03.04ibotask is probably Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
12:03.58alex_jonipacman87: I assume the "against our will" applies more frequently.. :)
12:07.55Axman6well i was just looking for a discussion on some stuff. i was wondering if veclib (specifically the vForce stuff) was being used in brl-cad on OS X (or whether it would be at all useful)
12:10.05Axman6has functions that do things like "Set y[i] to the exponential function of x[i], for i=0,..,n-1" that uses the vector engine on 32, 64 bit, PowerPC and Intel procs, and uses them fully.
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12:33.35Axman6i think i killed CIA-20...
12:40.45alex_joniAxman6: nope, it's beeing restarted
13:00.20brlcadAxman6: nope, it's not being used for anything
13:00.51Axman6would it be at all helpful?
13:01.14brlcadwhere would you hook it in? :)
13:02.06Axman6i dunno, you're the dev :P
13:02.12Axman6i'm just the ideas man!
13:02.13brlcadvector libs works best when they are fully integrated vertically
13:02.40Axman6what do you mean?
13:03.21brlcadaside from being platform specific, which historically we've avoided for longevity/portability/maintenance as they tend to come and go into popularity over the years
13:03.44Axman6ah, fair enough. thought you might say that
13:03.49Axman6still... it looks cool :P
13:03.54clock_brlcad: platforms are like fads ;-)
13:03.55brlcadwhat I mean is that of course it's been thought about ;)  but it's not just a matter of "just using it" in the least
13:04.07Axman6yeah
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13:05.03Axman6oh well, just a thought. seems like it's the sort of thing brl-cad would do a lot of, and the routines used here are designed to be _fast_. (not that brl-cad needs much help there)
13:05.11brlcadeven if we hooked it into the few places in our math library as a backend, you wouldn't likely see any performance gains because it wouldn't be pervasive
13:05.25brlcadyou'd still end up stalling the vector unit every few intructions
13:05.36Axman6how come?
13:05.52clock_brlcad: I still didn't do the last bit to finish the video into releasability :(
13:05.59Axman6i'm not all that familiar (at all) with the workings of brl-cad
13:06.55brlcadAxman6: because of the way vector math works, they get their speed by keeping a vector pipeline fed and crossing the boundary from system mem to the vector units infrequently
13:07.31brlcadwithout vertical integration where you restructure all computations specifically around that, you don't get those speed benefits because the pipeline isn't fed
13:07.37brlcadit stalls
13:07.46brlcadyou can actually end up running slower
13:07.47Axman6i thought that the point of this library was to do that as fast as it could be done. i could be wrong though.
13:08.01Axman6interesting
13:08.10brlcadyou're just reading the marketing materials, there's a lot more to it
13:08.49Axman6i'm sure this'll all make more sense once once i've finished my 5 years at uni
13:09.07brlcadthey're intentionally written as OMG!! *FAST* ponies!?!!
13:09.49Axman6well i'm reading the header file, which just tells you what it does
13:10.08brlcadthere have been efforts to take advantage of vectorization, but that requires a fair bit of data restructuring
13:10.53brlcadif someone(tm) implemented all of the vshot() routines in librt, then a vector lib would be more beneficial
13:10.56Axman6fair enough. i wasn't sure how data was represented in the source
13:11.02brlcadbut just hooking it in to the math lib wouldn't help
13:12.05Axman6what does vshot() do?
13:15.55brlcadshoots a bundle of rays at a primitive
13:16.00brlcadvectorized
13:16.14CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30978 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Added libged and support for x64.
13:16.30Axman6anyway, i had better get to sleep. i've got google tech talk to watch tomorrow ay ANU :)
13:16.37Axman6at*
13:17.01Axman6night all, and don't have too much fun or you'll hurt yourselves!
13:18.00brlcadcya
13:18.11CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30979 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/ (143 files in 143 dirs): Added builds for x64.
13:33.38*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@h-67-103-183-185.mclnva23.covad.net)
13:44.20*** join/#brlcad pacman_87 (n=timothy@nat-204-179.arlut.utexas.edu)
14:06.29*** join/#brlcad docelic_ (n=docelic@78.134.199.54)
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14:14.09*** part/#brlcad whymarkwh (i=dsfsdfsd@196.211.34.3)
14:34.39CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30980 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/magic.c: Include bu.h
14:37.21CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30981 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/globals.c: Include bn.h
14:40.52*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@h-67-103-183-185.mclnva23.covad.net)
14:49.18*** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@58.171.117.63)
15:03.27yukonbobwaves in, packs out -- later cadheads
15:04.28brlcadhowdy cya yukonbob
15:04.29CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30982 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/magic.h src/libbu/magic.c): sort entries so they are alphabetical by group and consistent with the header (though noteworthy that not all in the header are listed here)
15:27.20CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30983 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): rename BUHOOK to BU_HOOK for consistency
15:42.18*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.26.193)
15:43.22andrecastelogood morning everyone :D
15:43.48prasad_gmorning
16:32.27*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
16:32.27*** join/#brlcad vedge (i=vedge@vedge.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
16:32.30*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
17:00.18*** join/#brlcad quentusrex (n=quentusr@c-71-197-244-228.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
18:01.25*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54875C42.dip.t-dialin.net)
18:07.29brlcadhello quentusrex
18:11.17*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.199.54)
18:14.47mafm:)
18:14.57mafmthat looked like a tsunami
18:15.07mafmsee you tomorrow!
18:15.11brlcadsee ya!
18:29.28CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30984 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/globals.c: missed commit for BUHOOK
18:52.06CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30985 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): consolidate all of the magic functions, defines, and other logic for magic number checking over into magic.[ch]
19:02.54CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30986 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/clone.c: clean up comments
19:33.18CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30987 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/attach.c: need ged.h for vo funcs
19:39.54CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30988 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.h: ws
19:53.26CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30989 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/clone.c: fix some places in the v4 support where NAMESIZE needs to be used instead of CLONE_BUFSIZE, make tracker pair up bu_free with the bu_calloc calls
20:14.55CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30990 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/ (6 files in 6 dirs): Mods to get things working with libged.
20:17.28CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30991 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (dg.h ged.h raytrace.h): Mods related to moving things from librt to libged.
20:20.20CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30992 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Update to 7.12.3
20:21.37CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30993 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/track.c: This moved to libged.
20:22.24CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30994 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (importFg4Section.c wdb_comb_std.c): This moved to libged.
20:26.08CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30995 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (57 files in 5 dirs): Mods related to moving things from librt to libged.
20:38.30CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30996 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: Add ifdef __RTGEOM_H__ around rt_bot_sort_faces and rt_bot_decimate declarations.
22:08.37CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30997 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/Makefile.am: need importFg4Section.c track.c wdb_comb_std.c
22:27.15CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30998 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/generic/regex.h:
22:27.15CIA-21BRL-CAD: revert 30995 as regfree does need to be defined to TclReFree else unresolved
22:27.15CIA-21BRL-CAD: symbols on other platforms. the problem (presumably on windows) is probably the
22:27.15CIA-21BRL-CAD: build finding the src/other/libregex/regex.h header before tcl's from
22:27.16CIA-21BRL-CAD: src/other/tcl/generic/regex.h; the include paths should include tcl first in
22:27.18CIA-21BRL-CAD: order for tcl to compile its regex interface.
22:32.13*** part/#brlcad pacman_87 (n=timothy@nat-204-179.arlut.utexas.edu)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080506

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080506

01:42.18starseeker_gives cat catnip toy, watches as cat goes insane
01:53.37yukonbobgets a metric ton of msvc updates w/ his svn update
02:28.21brlcadthems crazy wincoders
02:28.43brlcadviva la revolución!
02:30.21yukonbob:? -- the revolution to join the Windows users?  
02:30.46brlcadel cinco de mayo!
02:30.59brlcadburps
02:31.14yukonbobis about to get a Windows laptop (from work) that will be the first time he's sat down in front of Windows box since about 1995.
02:31.29brlcadthe shame and horrors
02:32.10yukonbobit is what it is, I guess -- I'll get Tcl, Perl, Cygwin, XEmacs, etc, on there ASAP, though.
02:33.10brlcadthere are precompiled Emacs binaries if you want to avoid X
02:33.29yukonbobya -- that's the route I was planning...
02:34.35brlcadtakes a bit more effort to get other tid bits like gnu find (M-x grep-find) and other things that some bits of emacs might expect, but it works great
02:51.19*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
03:16.38*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@123.208.94.89)
03:19.57*** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@123.208.94.89)
03:42.12yukonbobya -- there's things like diff, grep, and some other unix-y bits that are required for "normal" operation, but cygwin will provide that stuff w/o _needing_ to get into X Window System as well...
03:44.37yukonbobwill have to see if there's a "screen" equiv for Windows... This will be interesting, in a way, to find out the utilties that I use day-to-day but don't realize that I use that often... and finding equiv for Windows.
07:02.30louipcwell the thing about guitar hero is that it accompanies you and it doesn't give you stuff that's too hard right away
07:02.37louipcand it tells you what buttons to push :D
07:02.55louipcthat would be cool if there was a program to do that on real instruments
07:03.17louipcthen you could be shredding like a pro in no time!
07:03.48louipcoops
07:19.46*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
08:12.40clock_By: John Anderson (johnranderson): Added -k option to rt to produce a faster (but approximated) render of a cutaway view.
08:13.09clock_By: Cliff Yapp (starseeker): Cutting flag with ronja.g seems to work well - closing bug.
08:13.18clock_This cutting flag -k is meant I guess?
08:13.44clock_How does it internally work and why is it approximated and in which way approximated?
09:56.02*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
10:35.50*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@123.208.220.219)
11:06.14*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
11:06.58mafmhi
11:45.51starseeker_clock_:  check the source code for details, but basically it's defining where to cut at a different level
11:46.27starseeker_clock_:  I'm not sure what John means by approximated.
11:47.31starseeker_Yes it's the k flag
11:48.17*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
11:48.32starseeker_Ah, hi clock_
11:49.14starseeker_figures - didn't notice you weren't on when I responded
11:51.29starseeker_Correct, it's the k flag - I'm not sure what John means by approximated, but when I tested it on your file it seemed to do well.
12:07.15CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r30999 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/table.c: Revert back to previous revision.
12:10.32CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31000 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged_dm.h: Needs ged.h
12:49.02CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31001 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/librt/librt.vcproj: Added include path to libregex.
12:58.09*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.199.54)
13:08.53*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:00.42brlcadhowdy d_rossberg
14:01.51d_rossbergmoin moin brlcad
14:04.10``Erikfast PINK ponies, actually.
14:06.50*** join/#brlcad docelic_ (n=docelic@78.134.198.225)
14:47.08``Erikhrm, -w is a gnu extention to make, not in bsd make
14:53.48brlcadah, drat
14:56.20*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.26.193)
14:56.34``Erikmorning, andré
14:57.19``Erik"subtle like a moose"
14:58.38andrecastelomorning ``Erik :D
14:58.51andrecasteloi've been a little away for a while, but i'm back
15:00.09``Erikdid you get your grades back?
15:03.44andrecasteloyup, passed everything
15:04.00``Erikgrats
15:04.48andrecastelothanks :D
15:36.53*** join/#brlcad vedge (n=vedge@205-237-251-204.ilesdelamadeleine.ca)
15:50.16*** join/#brlcad cad95 (n=83d830fe@bz.bzflag.bz)
17:25.42CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31002 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/libutahrle/rle_getcom.c: quell const qualifier discardation warnings
17:28.33CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31003 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/URToolkit/cnv/cubitorle.c: quell decl warnings
17:30.56brlcadandrecastelo: congrats! :)
17:33.37andrecastelothanks brlcad :D
17:39.21CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31004 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/dg_obj.c: Modified dgo_rt_set_eye_model()'s eye_model calculation. It's now using the diagonal length of the bounding box to back out the eye point.
17:47.17mafmcongratulations andrecastelo :)
17:47.36andrecastelothanks mafm :D
17:50.26mafmyou're still starting the second term, right?
17:53.20andrecasteloyes i'm starting it next week
17:54.15andrecastelohey folks, gotta go
17:54.20andrecasteloi'll be back later
17:54.28mafmI don't know if the plans of Google for a Southern Hemisphere SoC would apply to Brazil too :)
17:55.10andre|awaymafm: it would actually be great, but we don't have that much more time in the summer than we have in winter, so, wouldn't be so different :b
17:55.22mafm:D
17:55.28andre|awaymafm: cya later
17:55.30andre|away:D
17:56.11mafminté!
18:28.44*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.198.225)
19:43.23mafmbye
19:58.21CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31006 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.c: If windows, set an invalid parameter handler.
20:10.24*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-77-212.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:12.18brlcadthere is also little chance (with the current web app) that there will be a southern hemi gsoc
20:12.32brlcadmaybe after melange comes online next year
20:12.56brlcadso far, though, the process burden to have the summit, manage the students, etc, really does take all year for the folks involved
21:28.41CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31009 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/nsis/ (Makefile.am brlcad.nsi copying.txt): gah, remove the incorrect copying.txt file that refers to the gpl. make the nsis build file refer to the top-level COPYING and README instead of the incorrect copying.txt and outdated html manual page
22:24.22*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@58.171.29.100)
23:30.24CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31010 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: (log message trimmed)
23:30.24CIA-21BRL-CAD: Bob fixed a long-standing bug reported by Tom Browder where rt/rtedge were
23:30.24CIA-21BRL-CAD: incorrectly clipping the render due to an invalid eye point calculation. The
23:30.24CIA-21BRL-CAD: problem was traced down to code commited all the way back in 1997 where the
23:30.24CIA-21BRL-CAD: longest dimension of the bounding box was used as the default eye point backout
23:30.25CIA-21BRL-CAD: distance. This in turn could cause clipping if the diagonal distance was
23:30.27CIA-21BRL-CAD: considerablly larger and when rendering from a non-orthogonal view. it does not
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080507

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080507

00:14.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31011 10/brlcad/trunk/ (10 files in 8 dirs):
00:14.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: this renames the wdb_binary / dbbinary mged command to just 'binary' .. this
00:14.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: seems to be what it is actually used in archer already, what makes more sense,
00:14.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: and is more consistent with other commands. happened to fix a mistake in the
00:14.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: html docs in the process. also updated the command's help so that it's less
00:14.53CIA-21BRL-CAD: brain dead wrong in response to tom browder's sf bug 1532699 (dbbinary -o help
00:14.55CIA-21BRL-CAD: is misleading)
01:09.06*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
01:21.05yukonbobwaves in..
01:36.55brlcadhowdy yukonbob  :)
01:37.02brlcadclears out some bug reports
01:42.07starseeker_finally gets the docbook toolchain to do his bidding...
01:42.15louipchooray x2
01:44.28CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31012 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: try to prevent -Lyes/lib64 -Iyes/include etc from happening if the user only provides --with-jdk or --with-java without a path.
01:54.42brlcadwoot, only three left before the bugs are back down to just one page!
02:06.09CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31013 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/solids.sh: don't need to refer to $1/regress, just use the files
02:06.30brlcadtwo..
02:08.45brlcadone more!
02:12.00brlcadwoot!
02:28.35starseeker_wow.
02:28.52starseeker_checks in disbelief...
02:29.45starseeker_#define state_of_jaw "dropped"
02:33.27starseeker_nice job!
02:35.47brlcadhas since cleared about a half dozen others .. down to only 42 open bugs woo hoo :-)
02:41.45yukonbobupdates svn co, gets ready to do some (unrelated to BRL-CAD) Tcl work
02:52.02brlcadnice to see the bug list actually decrease for once .. didn't realize how many issues got fixed with the latest 7.12
02:52.23brlcaddown to about 40 now, few more that might be fixed but need investigating
02:53.09yukonbobis the dsp still on the list?
02:53.27brlcadthinks he needs to host a BRL-CAD Bug Zapper
02:53.44brlcadyeah :(
02:53.47brlcadwell sorta..
02:54.02brlcadit was never reported to the tracker, just to the BUGS file
02:54.10brlcadthese are tracker items I was clearing out
02:54.46yukonbobneeds to work-out "issues" w/ Tcl on his system (Tcl wrt NetBSD in general, /me thinks), including getting 8.5 up/running
02:55.02yukonbobah --
02:55.57yukonbobit's nice to see bugs from 1997 getting squashed... ;)
03:24.13louipchmm wow sf.net wants me to run 27 jscript files
03:32.21quentusrexHello
03:32.25quentusrexAnyone around?
03:32.39yukonbobnobyd -- shh..
03:32.43quentusrex:)
03:32.44yukonbob*nobody
03:33.28quentusrexDo you know if there has been any progress into taking multiple pictures of a 3D object and translating that into CAD?
03:33.47yukonbob?by magic
03:34.35quentusrexI'm talking about 3D object detection, and translation into some form of Computer modeling.
03:35.20yukonbobhas no idea what project/task quentusrex is talking about, of if this a general "start of the art" question for the whole field of 3d visualization
03:35.30yukonbob*state of the art
03:35.41yukonbobdamn latency, again (still)
03:36.44quentusrexWell, I have experience in video and image transcoding(which basically is just dealing with many individual frames) and I had a through. With object detection in images, what about having a video? with many frames?
03:37.12quentusrexIf there are several images with the objects 'detected' couldn't those be modeled?
03:37.30quentusrexby taking many 2D 'slices' of the profile of an object?
03:39.01quentusrexwouldn't you think so yukonbob?
03:42.20yukonbobI'll qualify my answer with "I'm not an expert"
03:43.54yukonbobI'd be skeptical -- you'd need "perfect" lighting, perfectly configured, and work w/ objects that conform to formats you "know", I'd think
03:44.25yukonbobafter all, video isn't 3d, no matter if you shoot images of the real world
03:44.53louipchar har I opened another bug report.
03:46.13yukonbobso it's an interpolation job... also depednds on what you expect to get out of it -- BRL-CAD specfically uses CSG, which wouldn't work well with your idea, since a _lot_ of what a CSG odel can be is not necessarily visible -- BREP, otoh, might work to some degree.
03:46.16louipcquentusrex: yeah I saw a program that would help do that but it didn't take slices
03:46.57louipcit took points on the image and somehow analysed it
03:47.38yukonbobguesses you'd also need to know objects material/finish, to know how light interracts w/ it...
03:48.27yukonbobbecause light is the only metric you've got when dealing w/ an image...
03:50.46yukonbobis inclined to find the "issues" w/ questions like this -- I'm sure it'd be a fun project, and results could be impressive.
05:20.48pacman87http://www.cs.unc.edu/Research/urbanscape/
05:21.17pacman87a bit late to the discussion, but this kind of looks like what you're describing
05:21.37brlcadtunes in
05:21.51yukonbobwaves
05:22.30yukonbobwould is interested if pacman87 or brlcad have comments about the preceeding...
05:22.39yukonboblooks at pacman87's link
05:23.50brlcadi've actually had a research project directly related to what he's suggested "on tap" for several years now
05:23.51yukonbobpacman87: kewl
05:24.11brlcadlots of thoughts and ideas on the subject, it's an entirely non-trivial problem, but intersting nonetheless
05:24.46brlcadthere are a couple groups working on model reconstruction from video/photos, pretty much in its infancy right now
05:25.17yukonbobs/would is/is/
05:26.00yukonbobbrlcad: seems interesting, but "messy" to me -- esp. when in the headspace of the precision/correctness of dealing w/ BRL-CAD -type issues
05:26.13yukonbobfeh
05:26.16brlcadhttp://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/10468/33215/01565435.pdf?temp=x is another group (based off research from stanford iirc)
05:26.50yukonbobmiilitary probably _loves_ this stuff, though, for quick/dirty recon
05:27.35yukonbobsend in  automaton which sends out signal in RT... review, attack!
05:27.57brlcadit's the ultimate in reverse modeling techniques .. just video tape the thing and *poof*, 3D model on computer
05:28.11brlcadgoal-wise at least
05:28.26brlcadit'll happen eventually (at high-res), most of the pieces are there
05:28.26pacman87re: need to know objects material/finish, to know how light interracts w/ it...
05:28.37yukonbobwell... depending on goal... is so dirty, but that may be fine...
05:28.41pacman87i'd think that's only a problem for very shiny stuff
05:28.53brlcadshiney stuff isn't really that hard
05:28.54pacman87with reflections that change depending on your viewing angel
05:28.55pacman87angle
05:29.04yukonbobpacman87: or transparent/translucent, /me imagines
05:29.09brlcadin a single image it is, even with just a couple frames, you can correlate really easily
05:29.25brlcadsoft bodies are a bitch
05:29.41yukonbob"soft body"?
05:29.55yukonbobie: a dog, vs. a building?
05:30.01brlcadyeah
05:30.03brlcadpeople
05:30.06brlcadplastic bags
05:32.48brlcadjust about anything highly deformable (e.g. people), or with ill-defined or hard-to-detect boundaries (e.g., hair, fur), liquids, plastics under a load, something undergoing a deformation .. all not something that can be captured via video/images really well/easily/at all
05:33.16brlcadquentusrex: why do you ask? you interested in working on that? :)
06:26.53brlcadlouipc: thanks for the report..
07:00.09*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
07:02.10louipcbrlcad: sure thing
07:56.01*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
08:28.24quentusrexbrlcad, Well, I'm currently busy on a project that is going corporate. So for the next year or so I'll be really busy. But I'd love to work on something like this.
08:28.47quentusrexThe next company I start I hope will deal more directly with AI and robitics issues.
08:30.06quentusrexReal world application for something like this would be(for the military) is flying a drone over a city and then being able to have a 3D map of the city.
08:30.28quentusrexand moving soft body objects like dogs and humans would just be considered 'noise'
09:52.04*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
09:58.21mafmallo
10:26.19clock_What I find fascinating if you turn the view in BRL-CAD and do clockwise or counterclockwise circles with the mouse, it rotates around the axis of view
10:26.47clock_the bigger circles, the larger rotation per completed circle
10:27.07clock_This must be some property of the algebraic group of rotation, any explanation?
10:54.37*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@123.208.23.133)
11:15.17quentusrexAlso, for a project like this I wouldn't expect a perfect rendering of what ever the object is. I would think it would still need a person to 'fix the fine details' but it would give a significant head start on the modeling process.
11:18.13clock_quentusrex: BRL-CAD produces an almost perfect rendering
11:18.49quentusrexsorry clock_, that comment is in relation to a much earlier conversation
16:03.32clock_Oh my bugreports are being processed
16:03.35clock_I appreciate that.
16:12.30*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548744AB.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:56.40*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
17:22.45brlcadany czech speakers here?
17:31.55*** join/#brlcad andre|away (n=chatzill@189.71.62.7)
17:32.23andrecastelogood morning :D
18:19.21CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31014 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/ (command.c nirt.1):
18:19.21CIA-21BRL-CAD: Change behavior of backout command in interactive nirt - backout flag can now be
18:19.21CIA-21BRL-CAD: activated and deactivated, and repeated invocations of backout will not increase
18:19.21CIA-21BRL-CAD: the backout distance with each invocation. Also, change of origin due to
18:19.21CIA-21BRL-CAD: backout use in shoot is now temporary - previous value is restored after shot is
18:19.24CIA-21BRL-CAD: complete.
18:22.09mafmbrlcad: I think clock_ does -- if you can wait for him to log again
18:23.21CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31015 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Add NEWS note for nirt change
18:25.11brlcadmafm: yeah, I know he does as do two other guys
18:25.17brlcadbut I don't see theem, so figured I'd query ;)
18:27.54mafmit's a bit confusing, since he has swiss ISPs :)
18:28.54mafm1) Whitespace -- Indents are 4 characters, tabs are 8 characters.
18:29.09brlcadyes?
18:29.44mafmhow can you indent to 4 characters in emacs then?
18:30.02brlcadthere are emacs local variable footers in all files
18:30.16brlcadit should be automatic
18:30.49brlcadif you create any new files with sh/template.sh, it'll also have the correct footer
18:31.23brlcadotherwise the answer more specifically is you set the indentation to 4 and then just hit tab, emacs will do the right thing
18:31.23mafmlemme check
18:31.48brlcadthe footers set up the indentation style
18:32.16brlcadthere's also a vi/vim line with similar decls
18:32.55mafmhmm, is the "stroustrup" thing? I thought that the "tab-width: 8" was the one working for indentation
18:33.39brlcadyeah, it used to be explicit
18:33.52brlcadbut then the file style was set, which for stroustrup is 4 char indents
18:34.58brlcade.g. at the bottom of  http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/tags/rel-7-8-4/src/libbu/association.c?revision=27207&view=markup
18:35.25brlcadc-basic-offset for c-mode files
18:35.36brlcadbut since it's redundant with a style set, it was removed
18:37.21brlcadtab-width basically just describes where the tab stops are at, used during indentation
18:39.27mafmI see
18:46.21mafmint the_answer() { return 42; };
18:46.33mafmaren't one-line functions forbidden? :)
18:56.55brlcadheh
18:57.17brlcadomfg, clock's perpend actually tessellates
18:57.51brlcadat least with the latest sources, so either my bot fixes fixed the dangling face errors or just better roll of the dice
18:58.14brlcadjust took it forever to tessellate .. 15 hours
18:58.25mafmtry to buy lottery today, just in the case
19:01.10brlcad:)
19:01.20brlcadmega millions is up to 160M or something
19:03.13*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
19:07.49mafmI tend to be the luckiest among my family and friends thugh, by not buying it
19:07.58mafmso at least I don't waste money :)
19:16.37mafmwell, I go home now
19:16.45mafmor drinking a beer first, maybe :)
19:17.00mafmbye!
19:25.15brlcadpng results here, http://brlcad.org/tmp/perpend/
19:30.31brlcadwow, down to less than 35 bugs
20:24.21yukonbobwaves in
20:24.30brlcad6howdy yukonbob
20:24.43yukonbob7howdy back, bugkilla
20:45.41PrezKennedyhowdy y'all
20:45.46starseekerhowdy :-)
20:46.47*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.62.7)
20:54.19andrecastelo``Erik: hey erik
21:09.37brlcadhola andrecastelo
21:09.59andrecastelohey brlcad :D
21:10.30brlcadhow's it going?
21:10.38andrecasteloi'm fine, you ?
21:10.49brlcadpeachy :)
21:10.59andrecasteloi've started writing a mlt_def.h, with a few structure definitions
21:11.01brlcadhappy that the bug reports were cut in half
21:11.10brlcadcool
21:11.16andrecastelocool, heard about that
21:11.22andrecastelobut i kinda got a problem
21:11.37brlcadyou should post it up as a patch ;)
21:11.38andrecasteloi'm going to use struct point_list, that i created in viewarea.c (in rtarea)
21:11.50andrecastelowhere can i add it so that i may use it in mlt as well ?
21:12.34brlcaddepends whether you're going the liboptical route or isolated tool
21:13.06andrecasteloi'm going isolated tool ;)
21:13.27brlcadokay, then just put it in your header for now then
21:13.35andrecastelohm ok, then
21:14.15brlcador keep it in its own header
21:14.30brlcadso it can be moved around to whereever makes sense
21:14.50andrecastelook..
21:15.24andrecasteloi'll add some stuff and then upload as a patch so you can give me some feedback, can i do that ?
21:15.46brlcadotherwise, raytrace.h normally/presently holds most of the rendering structures
21:15.56brlcadyeah, that'd be great
21:16.14andrecastelook, just a minute, i need a reboot
21:16.18brlcadafter one or two of those, should be able to get you committing directly
21:16.27brlcador reboot :P
21:17.10brlcadnotes there is an rt_pt_node, linked list of points
21:17.54*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548744AB.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:30.37*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.62.7)
21:30.50andrecastelok, back
21:35.15andrecastelobrlcad: i've updated my working copy but i have some conflicts in misc/win32-msvc8.. my msvc updated some files in there to be compatible to the latest msvc9.. what should i do ? can i simply ignore them ?
21:45.27brlcadandre|afk: if you have conflicts, you can't ignore them -- it puts markers in the files
21:46.01brlcadshould probably blow the directory away, svn up again, then cp win32-msvc8 to win32-msvc9 to update
21:46.10brlcador provide a diff of the updates it made for vc9
21:46.20brlcadas a patch (presuming it works with 8)
21:47.21andre|afkbrlcad: there's no problem in deleting it ? the source code i have is different from the one in the svn, because of the center points patch
21:48.51brlcadyou'd have to readd those changes to the build files
21:49.04brlcadyou can try to resolve the conflicts, merge the changes in
21:49.17brlcadbut if you've not made more than a couple edits, probably easier to just make them again
21:57.41andrecastelobrlcad: is it easier to use a command line svn? i'm using tortoiseSVN, is that a problem ?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080508

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080508

00:21.47brlcadnot a problem for me :)
02:46.45brlcadyay, season two of code monkeys starts up in june
05:17.35yukonbob?"code monkeys" --- sounds like a sitcom
05:30.40*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu)
05:46.53*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@217-162-111-19.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:01.23*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
09:08.39*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
09:23.19CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31016 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: (log message trimmed)
09:23.19CIA-21BRL-CAD: reword the nirt backout line just so that we can make the commit log more
09:23.19CIA-21BRL-CAD: substantial. commit messages for NEWS lines need to be detailed as they're used
09:23.19CIA-21BRL-CAD: during configuration reviews. To quote Cliff's original log message for this
09:23.19CIA-21BRL-CAD: feature: Change behavior of backout command in interactive nirt - backout flag
09:23.20CIA-21BRL-CAD: can now be activated and deactivated, and repeated invocations of backout will
09:23.22CIA-21BRL-CAD: not increase the backout distance with each invocation. Also, change of origin
10:31.44*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
10:33.19mafmhi
10:49.32brlcadhowdy mafm
10:49.43brlcadgood morning
11:04.43mafmdoing fine
11:12.26CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31017 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/brlcad.1: rfbd was renamed to fbserv about a decade ago
11:14.15CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31018 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (fbserv/fbserv.c libfb/if_remote.c): patch from pedro that reportedly helps the build on openbsd. basically need to include sys/types.h before other sys headers like sys/socket.h.
11:22.47starseeker_erm.  sorry brlcad
11:23.04starseeker_was trying to keep it short and sweet in the NEWS file...
11:23.21brlcadnp, NEWS needs the opposite
11:25.31Axman6so... anyone here good with C?
11:25.36starseeker_Ah, gotcha - you're using the commit logs that alter the NEWS file, not going back and grabbing the actual logs from commits in support of change
11:25.38Axman6heh
11:26.03starseeker_turns the crank on his brain to get it started, Model T Ford style...
11:27.54brlcadthere's no direct associativity with news line items and sets of commits that correspond, so it needs to be in the commit message itself (or part of the original change/commit where the message should also be detailed)
11:28.41brlcadthe changelog is generated, but that's simply way too much information and doesn't condense to a summary of user-visible changes
12:01.01clock_brlcad: I see now a lot of my bugreports have been processed I appreciate that
12:19.56*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@58.171.95.0)
12:29.03Axman6brlcad: are you free at all? i was wondering if you could help me figure something out
12:32.20Axman6just wondering what the point of some of the stuff in http://developer.apple.com/hardwaredrivers/ve/downloads/vMathLib.tgz is
12:35.50Axman6if anyone's interested (it's just a single, simple C file), i'm wondering what the point of uint32_t  u[4]; is in the vectF_t. commenting it out didn't have any effect to the results :\
12:37.43mafmAxman6: u array is not used at all
12:38.04Axman6i know. so i was wondering what the point of it might be
12:38.46mafmthat doesn't have much to do with knowing C, but with the domain of the problem :)
12:39.59mafmprobably he just forgot to remove it, or didn't write a test for that part as he initially intended, or something like that
12:40.54mafmthe .h is a template and not even included anywhere
12:41.12mafmso I guess that the author didn't care much about polishing the program :)
12:42.01Axman6yeah well, it's meant to be an example of how to use some of their frameworks, and demonstrate how much faster they are
12:43.24mafm:)
12:46.09Axman6and their vForce stuff is pretty impressive. simple interface to complex stuff, that works as fast as it can on 4 different architectures, and takes advantage of any vector hardware too.
12:51.04mafmit's an algebra library or something like that?
12:58.20Axman6vector computations, that's about all i know.
12:59.12*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.203.41)
13:00.34Axman6its functions take pointers to arrays of vectors (one or two inputs, and an output), and just dose it's thing on the inputs, putting the results in the output array
13:08.47mafmI see
13:08.47Axman6anyway, bedtime for me. have fun guys
13:08.56mafmnight :)
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14:26.01*** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@58.171.95.0)
15:21.17CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31019 10/brlcad/trunk/ (TODO doc/deprecation.txt include/raytrace.h): add to the todo about deprecating the hit_point and hit_normal members of a hit structure, the need for an RT_HIT_POINT macro and how the existing routines are/were deprecated a while ago.
16:34.57*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54873ED1.dip.t-dialin.net)
18:18.22CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31020 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/: kill the old STABLE branch, going to copy from last release (easier than merging)
18:43.31CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31021 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: More format tweaking.
18:45.52CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31022 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: Update the mirror entry.
18:47.16CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31023 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/Db.tcl: Add log and mirror commands.
18:49.00CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31024 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/Mged.tcl: Added the mirror command.
18:49.52CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31025 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Added the mirror command.
18:50.40CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31026 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl: Added help entry for mirror.
18:53.56CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31027 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/libged/libged.vcproj: Added log.c and mirror.c to build.
19:01.53CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31028 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/tcl.c: Need dg.h for declaration of Dgo_Init().
19:04.35CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31029 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: Added a few members to struct rt_wdb.
19:08.17CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31030 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: Added declarations for ged_mirror() and ged_log(). Added a few macros that are initially being used by ged_mirror() and ged_log().
19:22.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31032 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/chgmodel.c: f_mirror() has been modified to use libged's ged_mirror().
19:24.31*** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=starseek@bz.bzflag.bz)
19:35.10CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31033 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (log.c mirror.c): Initial check-in.
19:36.17CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31034 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (CMakeLists.txt Makefile.am): Added mirror.c and log.c
19:37.16CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31035 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/wdb_obj.c: Added mirror and log commands.
19:40.36CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31036 10/brlcad/trunk/include/dg.h: RT_DGO_NULL changed to GED_DGO_NULL.
19:49.16mafmnight
20:17.03CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31037 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_metaball.c: fix a_onehit handling
21:56.03*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
22:07.44CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31038 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/wdb_obj.c tclscripts/lib/Mged.tcl): Generalized the mirror and log commands.
22:12.01*** join/#brlcad pH (n=1@net12.mlyniec.gda.pl)
22:12.10*** part/#brlcad pH (n=1@net12.mlyniec.gda.pl)
22:24.25CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31039 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/: re-add STABLE branch, using the last fully-tested 7-12-2 as the starting point
23:04.18CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31040 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: more consistent use of ws. space after comma, space after reserved statements, curlie cleanup, and don't wrap for the sake of fitting to an arbitrary column. doxygenify comments.
23:08.03CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31041 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: remove mass quantities of trailing ws
23:46.18starseeker_Heh - thanks brlcad
23:46.31starseeker_sorry I was so messed up there...
23:52.11brlcadnp
23:53.40brlcadfyi, the sh/ws.sh script will perform some of the cleanup for you (trailing ws, indentation, blank lines, etc)
23:58.35starseeker_Ah - good to know
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080509

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080509

00:46.10yukonbobwaves in
00:46.15yukonbobhello, cadheads
01:34.54PrezKennedyhowdy yukonbob, brlcad, other folks i know... ;)
02:47.00*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
07:00.51*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
07:24.53*** join/#brlcad vedge (n=vedge@205-237-251-204.ilesdelamadeleine.ca)
08:07.29*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
09:15.28*** join/#brlcad PrezzKennedy (i=Matthew@74.86.45.130)
10:15.10*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
10:18.00mafmhi
11:35.11brlcadmoin
11:48.16*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:01.33CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31042 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/CMakeLists.txt:
13:01.33CIA-21BRL-CAD: Added include path to libregex
13:01.33CIA-21BRL-CAD: this include path has to be before tcl/generic
14:30.07*** join/#brlcad prasad1 (n=psilva@h-67-103-183-185.mclnva23.covad.net)
14:49.26*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@static-70-108-244-218.res.east.verizon.net)
17:03.53*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.204.161)
17:15.54mafmbrlcad: one thing in the case that I'm not around during the weekend
17:19.57mafmI have to go to a congress next week, and I take the opportunity to go and see my folks after months of not seeing them
17:20.30mafmand to make a couple of exams
17:20.57mafmso I won't be available until the official week of starting with coding phase for gsoc
17:22.04mafm(maybe if I get my personal laptop back I'll connect from time to time in the meantime, but it's unlikely)
17:26.35``ErikµO.o
17:27.39``ErikSaying there is too much order in the universe for it to be random chance is like a puddle remarking at how well a pot hole conforms to its shape.
17:27.39mafmwhat's that?
17:27.59``Erikthe mu was a mistake, it should've been "O.o"
17:28.27``Erikhehehehe "Linux is actually better than BSD because you can roast marshmallows over the schedular flamewars."
17:28.28mafmoh :D
17:38.27mafmonly scheduler? :)
17:39.06mafmyou can get about a dozen flames related to the kernel itself...
17:39.35mafmgplv2 vs v3, kernel debugger... etc
17:50.08``Erikohyeah? ext4 vs jfs vs xfs vs reiser
17:50.10``Erik:D
17:50.39``Erikubuntu vs gentoo vs debian vs fedora vs slackware vs suse vs ...
17:50.42``Erik:)
17:53.10archivistSVR3 ftw
17:56.28``ErikBSD43
17:56.40``Erik*fight*
17:58.19archivistI started with unix on an Altos 1000, a 12mhz 386
18:00.14``Erikcool, my first venture was linux on a 66mhz 486 :/ but I've gone back and installed bsd4.3 on a vax11/780 emulator (simh) to get the vm tuned to VGR
18:00.44``Erikand I've done plenty with archaic machines running sunos, hpux, aix, irix, etc at various jobs :)
18:07.04archivistwhen you look back at apps designed for those old beasts, modern apps are so slow and bloated in comparison
18:07.58``Erikoh yeah
18:08.01CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31043 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/intaval/regtab.cpp: quell warning about deprecated conversion (declare/define using ptr instead of array)
18:08.31``Erikand looking at the bsd43 source code for apps, libraries, kernels compared to the linux/gnu stack, it was short, sweet, clean, elegant... pleasant
18:09.22CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31044 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/ (3dm/Makefile.am Makefile.am): fix broken variable names in FAST_OBJECTS
18:10.16archivistthe database I worked on had chains/links forward and reverse and to from child parent, hardly needed to waste index lookup time
18:10.18``Erikfbsd and obsd seem to be somewhere inbetween :/
18:16.53brlcadmafm: okay, thanks for the heads up .. have you been able to talk much with bob?
18:17.05brlcads/much/at all/
18:20.04mafmhe replied, but didn't say much except that he agreed :)
18:21.37brlcadhe's a man of few words ;)
18:21.48brlcadmore inclined to dive into code
18:22.18``Erikmorning, brlcad
18:22.23brlcadhowdy
18:23.15``Eriktracks yet another fine TclReFree bug O.o
18:23.45brlcadI tracked through the sources, tcl does define/provide it .. it's just obscured through a double-#define
18:24.07brlcadso if it gets the wrong header, there'll be problems
18:24.26``Erikwell, the one I'm seeing, I *THINK* it means to grab /usr/include/regex.h instead of $(top_srcdir)/src/other/tcl/generic/regex.h
18:25.04mafmwho are the mentors apart from him -- erik, drossberg, sean... who's the last one?
18:25.37``Erik~/src/brlcad/build/i686-apple-darwin8.11.1/src/libsysv$ grep TclReError *.o
18:25.38``ErikBinary file libsysv_la-regex.o matches
18:25.38brlcadbob and john
18:26.05``Erikbrlcad is not a mentor, he's a meta-mentor
18:26.07mafmbob1961 is mine... what's john's nickname here?
18:26.12``Erikdaytona
18:26.24mafmah ok :)
18:26.37brlcad``Erik: ah, yes.. opposite problem .. another lib that find's tcl's regex.h would be bad
18:27.07brlcadmafm: so did you sort out a reporting means?
18:27.35mafmsean is a kind of demiurge... his nickname even fades with the project :P
18:27.39``Erikthinks bob is an old-school email guy, not irc/im
18:27.55mafmthe first time that I joined I assumed that "brlcad" had to be a logging bot or something like that :)
18:27.58brlcad~dict demiurge
18:28.04``Erikwe'll learn him. :>
18:28.29brlcadheh, learn him good
18:29.01mafm<brlcad> mafm: so did you sort out a reporting means? -- I think that I put a link from one page to there -- the wiki I think, I'm not a fan of blogs
18:29.29``ErikI got 3 metric tons of .3dm and corresponding .g models with a mapping table (and status/notes). I asked him to send it to you, too, brlcad
18:29.42brlcadmafm: so to your user page?
18:30.08``ErikRedmond weather reports are predicting thunderstorms, with a 90% chance of scattered chair showers.
18:30.39mafmyep
18:30.46brlcadmafm: have you gone through the checklist, any items remaining?
18:30.52brlcadaside from commit
18:32.05mafmthe one of assigning copyright do needs something special, like for GNU folks with the snail-mail permission?
18:32.57brlcadno, it's informal understanding, shared copyright
18:33.33brlcadI can write up something more pragmatic if you feel it's needed
18:33.35mafmotherwise I think that I don't have anything else from the HACKING file
18:33.45brlcadmafm: I'm referring to http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Checklist
18:33.49mafmnope, I don't think so
18:34.23starseekerYay, I can upload the oed tutorial now...
18:34.38brlcadmafm: so the eight bullets on the Plan are your milestones, I take it?
18:35.00mafmBob agreed, so I think so
18:35.09brlcadokay, just checking
18:37.20mafmwho's making the protocol for communications (something was started, at least as templates, AFAICR)?
18:39.50brlcadthat's currently being worked on along with the geometry engine work
18:42.15brlcadmafm: probably the easiest to work with for starters will be to just write a simple driver backend that will talk a basic protocol that is sufficient for what you need
18:42.33yukonbobmorning cadheads
18:42.54brlcade.g. modifying/forking g_transfer to feed you the data you need
18:43.47mafmhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Expectations#Design_documents -- the "-- Thanks --" is a
18:43.54mafm== Thanks ==  maybe?
18:43.57brlcadthat example tool basically sends geometry to a calling client
18:44.11brlcadmafm: nah, that was intentional
18:44.34mafmah
18:44.35mafmhi yukonbob
18:45.35brlcadwanted a footer that doesn't get added to the menu
18:46.32brlcadmafm: be sure to e-mail bob about your expected schedule
18:47.28brlcadif you can have any code/patches to review by then, that could be helpful .. so they can be reviewed while you're away on a congress and commit access can be established
18:48.07brlcadcould even be today, they're not meant to be substantial .. the point is getting a communication process established
18:48.09mafmhmm, nice example that g_transfer, hadn't seen it
18:49.43mafmthe patches can be simple ones? I thought that we'll be without commit access for the first couple of weeks or so
18:49.59brlcadit's doing things a "little" differently than what you need, e.g. you don't need the 'actual' geometry, you need names, values, display lists, etc
18:50.26brlcadmafm: i sure hope not that long, that'd indicate some problem imo
18:50.59brlcadthey can be very simple
18:52.07brlcadtwo or three small patches that show you know how to communicate a concise non-trivial change (that conforms to HACKING) is all it really takes, could be done in just a couple hours if there's a mentor to review/apply them
18:52.25mafmI thought that it would be the expected time for regular would-be contributors, with project members giving the permissions instead of asking for them :D
18:53.12mafmwhich btw reminds me of IRC rules about operators of the channel and so on :D
18:53.25brlcadwell, yeah you don't need to ask for it .. if there's a problem you could end up working all summer via patches, but if it was working out that badly, the student would probably get dropped after a few weeks
18:53.32mafmok I'll see what I can do
18:53.46mafmif not today I'm probably going to come to the lab during the weekend too :S
18:54.29brlcadat least one of the students has already done enough patches and has just been on my todo to turn on their commit access already
19:02.32``Erikawesome!
19:02.38``Erikchecking whether the C compiler works... Bad system call (core dumped)
19:02.45brlcadneat
19:02.56mafm(wait, call from physicist...)
19:03.11``Erikmight have to /quit irc this weekend O.o
19:03.23``Erikwhich is sad, cuz this session has been on for 141 days
19:05.39brlcadthe shame
19:05.55brlcad15:05 Irssi uptime: 117d 3h 26m 7s
19:06.25``Erikmine'd be more, but I shut the machine down when I bought the UPS for home
19:06.26brlcad[sean@bz (Fri May 09 15:06:08) ~]$ uptime 3:06PM  up 117 days,  5:05, 16 users, load averages: 0.76, 1.50, 1.41
19:10.41archivisthmm I can never keep this box running that long, crashy debian
19:10.58``Erik<PROTECTED>
19:11.01``Erikpets his fbsd
19:11.46archivisthmm 9 days (was trying to feed it ram)
19:11.52brlcadarchivist: .bz's last uptime was just a few hours shy of 400 days before someone kicked a power cable
19:12.00``Erik"trying"? O.o
19:12.42archivistit didnt like the ram i stuffed in so went back to memory challenged
19:12.51starseekerproceeds to make up a temporary place in doc, noting it will likely change later...
19:13.11``Erik*snrkt*
19:13.19``Erik/* just a hack, I'll fix it later */
19:13.20``Erik*cough*
19:13.58archivistplaceholder, another word for kluge
19:14.00``Erikhm, this fbsd box is a 650mhz p3 with 128m ram, running crap including two versions of gnome stack at the same time O.o
19:14.01starseekerNo, more like /* Doing something other than barfing png files into doc toplevel, organize more intelligently after more thinking is done */
19:14.38``Erikneeds to port his ancient mail client up to gnome2
19:14.53archivistdual PII here with 440meg but well into swap
19:15.32brlcadreturns to his review write-up of Balvenie scotch
19:15.51``Erikdrives by brlcads place and steals a bottle O:-)
19:16.00``Eriknot going to daves going away shindig, I take it?
19:16.47``Erikhopes they have drinkable beer
19:16.50``Eriklater, kids :D
19:17.18starseekerconsiders staying off the roads until ``Erik makes it back home...
19:18.03archivisthas he crashed another car?
19:18.26starseekernot to my knowledge
19:26.11brlcad``Erik: you should try this stuff
19:26.15brlcadif you drink scotch that is
19:26.38brlcadexpects ``Erik to find coors light
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19:34.02mafmsighs
19:34.15mafmback from service :)
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19:37.38brlcadwb
19:38.00*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.11.218)
19:38.12brlcadhowdy andrecastelo
19:38.13andrecastelohey :D
19:38.17andrecastelohey brlcad
19:38.23clock_brlcad: hey
19:38.33brlcadclock_: did you see the screenshots?
19:38.43andrecastelosorry about not being more present but i did post a new entry in the blog
19:39.02mafmarchivist: crashy Debian? my debian machines (even other linux) always take hundreds of days of uptime, and and restarted only due to hardware upgrades or so
19:39.52archivistmafm main problem seems to be memory leaks in firefox and gpdf
19:40.15mafmhi andrecastelo
19:40.21andrecastelohey mafm
19:40.27brlcadlooks for an rss plugin to mediawiki
19:40.54andrecastelohi ``Erik
19:40.59mafmbut you should be able to take care of those just by restarting the app, not the system :)
19:41.48mafm<PROTECTED>
19:42.17mafmand the machine has being running 2 instances of genome@home for 5 years now or so
19:51.08starseekerYes!  http;//brlcad.org/wiki/Documentation
19:51.23starseekerOr rather,  http://brlcad.org/wiki/Documentation
19:59.19CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31045 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/: Add source for oed tutorial
20:05.14CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31046 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/oed/ (17 files): This time actually add the contents for oed tutorial.
20:12.18mafmconfigure: error: /home/mafm/Desktop/soc2008/brlcad-proposal/brlcad-trunk/src/other/tcl/unix/tclConfig.sh is for Tcl .
20:12.18mafmTk 8.5.1 needs Tcl 8.5.
20:12.29mafmI get this error today
20:12.39mafmhaven't updated for a while though
20:13.50mafmI have these {tcl,tk}-dev 8.5.2 packages installed in the system for some reason
20:13.59mafmso I guess that there's a conflict there?
20:14.12starseekerDo you need to use system tcl/tk or are you using enable-all?
20:14.36mafmI used configure with no options
20:15.03starseekerIf you don't mind using the internal library copies ./configure --enable-all can save a lot of trouble
20:16.07mafmhmm, I better remove them from the system then -- they're not used for anything else
20:16.11mafmthanks :)
20:16.42starseekerI don't know if that's what's going on - what does your configure report?
20:16.59starseekeris it trying to use system tcl and internal tk, for example?
20:17.16mafmafter desinstalling it still fails, with --enable-all is ok
20:17.27mafmdo you want me to go back?
20:17.52mafmhmm, or not so... it failed again
20:18.14starseekerit failed with enable all?
20:19.17mafmyup
20:19.27mafmsame error as above
20:19.38starseekerare you using latest svn?
20:20.21mafmyes
20:20.41mafm$ svn update
20:20.41mafmAt revision 31046.
20:20.49starseekerTry running ./autogen.sh and then re-running configure
20:20.53mafmwith the docbook things from you
20:21.00starseekerOK...
20:26.59mafmgoody, now it works :)
20:33.25mafmugh, not for long
20:34.10starseekerwhat happened?
20:37.59mafm./.libs/librt.so: undefined reference to `TclReFree'
20:37.59mafm/home/mafm/soc2008-brlcad/brlcad-trunk/src/libsysv/.libs/libsysv.so: undefined reference to `TclReError'
20:38.16starseekerGrr
20:38.52starseekerYou're building with enable-all?
20:43.13mafmyes
20:43.47mafmI had some of these problems before, I think that tomorrow I'll be able to sort them out
20:43.51mafmbut it's a bit too late now
20:43.53starseekerThat error keeps popping up - it has to do with tcl include flags being included too soon in the list.
20:44.09starseekerk
20:48.13mafmhttp://rafb.net/p/8u5Erv89.html
20:48.22mafmfull error, if you're interested
20:48.27mafmok going home now, take care
21:04.52starseekerWhen adding makefiles for the new directories, what do I have to do to make sure a Makefile.in gets created by autogen?  I've added docbook as a subdirectory, and it has a Makefile.am, but the .in isn't generated
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21:20.38thing0morning yall
21:32.00pooliohowdy
21:35.05starseekerARRRRRRRRGH
21:35.59starseekerpulls out quake railgun and unleashes mayhem on autotools...
21:49.39starseekerautotools is like political process - you marvel at the amazing things they achieve while at the same time marveling that anything at all can be achieved
21:59.32CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31047 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Add make files for new doc directories
22:56.16``Erikoh sweet jeebus, what have you done, what do I have to fix now
22:58.50``Erik:D
23:01.43``Erikgenerating new Makefile.in dir's requires 'automake src/whatever/thing/Makefile', easier to just autogen if you don't know wha tyou're doing
23:02.01``Erikit also needs entries in configure.ac and the parent SUBDIRS var
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080510

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080510

00:07.01*** join/#brlcad starseeker_ (n=CY@c-68-33-217-173.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
00:08.31starseeker``Erik: did I get it right? (or close enough?)
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02:30.08brlcadstarseeker: looks right, but you can always check with an ./autogen.sh && ./configure && make distcheck
02:30.47brlcaduntil you know what all is going on, you basically need to run autogen.sh anytime any Makefile.am or configure.ac changes
02:30.54brlcadeven during svn update
02:33.03starseeker_had noticed...
02:33.18starseeker_thanks though - glad it looks OK :-)
02:34.49brlcaddistcheck is the money shot, it'll tell you what's missing
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03:10.45wuxiais there a online archive of brlcad models I can download?
03:26.37starseeker_There are a couple here:  http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=641557&group_id=105292&func=browse
03:27.24starseeker_most are in the distribution in /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.12.2/db/ or wherever your db folder happens to be installed
03:43.53wuxiathanks
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08:02.47thing0heya all
08:08.10*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-93-6.dclient.hispeed.ch)
08:34.04clock_Is it allowed to make an elliptic cylinder by creating a circular cylinder and then applying a matrix that squeezes it?
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11:21.51thing1hey
11:21.54thing1dang
11:23.11thing1heard about Siemens PLM Synchronous Technology
11:23.25thing1I was wondering when someone was going to come up with something like this
11:23.33thing1model it using direct techniques
11:23.39thing1then add parametrics afer
11:42.33brlcadhm, not ringing any bells of merit
11:43.25brlcadclock_: yeah, I believe that'll work
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12:53.09homovulgarishi all :)
12:53.34homovulgarisHi sean, my thesis finally got over today ;) went well
12:56.28homovulgarisWhy am i getting a TclReFree error in the latest revision :(
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13:55.06``Erikhehehe, weird http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=33784206
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13:57.59andrecastelogood morning everyone :D
14:09.13brlcadhomovulgaris: I saw the message earlier
14:09.19brlcadit's an include path problem
14:09.32brlcadhowdy andrecastelo
14:15.45brlcadoh it wasn't your message, but same report ;)
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14:41.43andrecastelo_hey brlcad
14:42.08andrecastelo_just sent the mlt defs patch, feedback welcome :D
15:01.29brlcadandrecastelo: cool
15:01.35brlcadi'll look over it this weekend
15:01.51andrecastelok, thx :D
15:01.58brlcadhave a road trip today and tomorrow, but should get some time in there ;)
15:02.21andrecastelooh cool, enjoy it :D
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16:00.38homovulgarishi
16:00.51homovulgarisstill having trouble with tcl
16:01.44brlcadhomovulgaris: understandably given nothing has changed in the past four hours ;)
16:02.17homovulgaris:) oh..
16:02.50brlcadthe problem is include paths, it's getting src/other/regex before src/other/tcl/generic somewhere
16:06.20homovulgarisin my case it asks me to recompile with -fPIC
16:06.28homovulgaristclRegexp.o ofcourse
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16:10.28brlcadyeah, that's the problem, just verified
16:10.40brlcadnow .. how to actually fix that
16:11.01brlcadhomovulgaris: what platform are you on?
16:12.00homovulgarisLinux eos 2.6.24-1-amd64 #1 SMP Fri Apr 18 23:08:22 UTC 2008 x86_64 GNU/Linux
16:12.12homovulgarisdebian ;)
16:12.47homovulgarishttp://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/amd64/howtos/index.xml?part=1&chap=3
16:12.58brlcadokay, just making sure this fix will apply
16:18.04CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31048 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac:
16:18.04CIA-21BRL-CAD: REGEX_CPPFLAGS MUST COME AFTER TCL INCLUDE PATHS .. else you can end up with
16:18.04CIA-21BRL-CAD: unresolved regex symbols due to tcl's double #define redirection of regex calls
16:18.04CIA-21BRL-CAD: from their regex.h header. Symptom of this problem is unresolved TclReFree
16:18.05CIA-21BRL-CAD: symbols during linking of libs that use tcl and/or unresolved regcomp, regerror,
16:18.09CIA-21BRL-CAD: and regexec symbols in libraries that don't use tcl.
16:18.15brlcadhomovulgaris: test that if you would
16:20.39homovulgarison it ;)
16:26.33homovulgaristcl error is ok now i guess
16:26.34homovulgarisbut i get this now
16:26.35homovulgariscolor.c:27:22: error: X11/Xlib.h: No such file or directory
16:26.42homovulgariscolor.c:32: error: expected ‘)’ before ‘*’ token
16:26.43homovulgariscolor.c:33: error: expected ‘)’ before ‘*’ token
16:26.43homovulgariscolor.c:75: error: expected ‘)’ before ‘*’ token
16:26.43homovulgariscolor.c:100: error: expected ‘)’ before ‘*’ token
16:28.45homovulgaristhats ok.. ;) installed xlibs-static-dev
16:31.24homovulgarisits not able to find libtk.la .. let me see might be specific to my system
16:31.25homovulgarisi'll get back in some time
16:33.39homovulgariscompiling
16:33.47homovulgarishey sean btw. are we going to have trac soon ?
16:34.28homovulgarisand eror now is /home/d/wrk/libpg/brlcad/src/libsysv/.libs/libsysv.so: undefined reference to `TclReError'
16:34.44brlcadnot anytime soon, no
16:35.55brlcadyeah, I've got the libsysv error, working on it
18:03.24CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31049 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac src/librt/Makefile.am src/librt/regionfix.c):
18:03.24CIA-21BRL-CAD: yet another change to help with the TclReFree linkage errors. more details is
18:03.24CIA-21BRL-CAD: that tcl doesn't need/want regex headers but all callers do need it (and need it
18:03.25CIA-21BRL-CAD: before tcl's to find our regex headers), so the regex flags shouldn't be added
18:03.27CIA-21BRL-CAD: to the tcl_cppflags at all really.
18:04.05brlcadhomovulgaris: again?
18:09.29CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31050 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: oops, forgot to commit this one, another regex caller.
18:17.20``Erikstarts testing O.o
18:20.08``Erikif this works, I'll lose an excuse for procrastinating at the office O.o :D
18:38.20CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31051 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: is regex.c really needed?
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18:45.54brlcadhowdy d_rossberg
18:47.31CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31052 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: don't need redata.c if we're not compiling regex.c
18:48.49d_rossbergwaves from home
18:49.30CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31053 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob indirectly added the log and mirror commands to archer via adding them to the Db megawidget.
18:52.49CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31054 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob added the 'mirror' command to archer while refactoring it into libged
18:53.09brlcadwoot
18:55.51CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31055 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl: fix helplibdata typo
19:19.37``Erikhehehe now I get the issue in librt
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19:44.47homovulgarisyeah libsysv still .. in librt
19:47.26``Erikwent away in libsysv for me
19:48.52homovulgarisisnt't it still undefined reference to TclReError ?
19:49.06homovulgarisi mean my error message is /home/d/wrk/libpg/brlcad/src/libsysv/.libs/libsysv.so: undefined reference to `TclReError'
19:49.07homovulgariscollect2: ld returned 1 exit status
19:49.07homovulgarismake[2]: *** [comb] Error 1
19:49.07homovulgarismake[2]: Leaving directory `/home/d/wrk/libpg/brlcad/src/librt'
19:49.07homovulgarismake[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
19:49.08homovulgarismake[1]: Leaving directory `/home/d/wrk/libpg/brlcad/src'
19:49.12homovulgarismake: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
20:16.03brlcadyou'd have to do a make clean
20:16.08brlcadstale symbols
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21:56.25yukonbobafternoon, cadheads
23:19.22yukonbobThis is a bit lame, but: http://www.pastebin.ca/1014183
23:20.54yukonbob^-- failing w/ Tcl regex... svn 7.12.3 from 10May2008, (31055), clean build -- I don't have time to look at this right now, and I _will_ say that I think my Tcl installation could be better (wrt TclStub), but I wouldn't expect this kind of error)
23:26.20yukonbobwonders if it's picking up wrong regex -- should be from src/other/libregex? (/me is only guessing)
23:59.58yukonbobusing src/other/libregex/regex.h seems to fix... now onto error w/ lgt...
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080511

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080511

00:10.29yukonbobhttp://pastebin.ca/1014230
00:11.05yukonbob^-- multiple definitions of bu_bomb, bu_setjmp_valid, bu_jmpbuf
00:27.21MaloeranOkay, this is way off-topic but I'm really curious. Would anyone have a clue why a good desktop/server could connect just fine at the end of a 40 meters ethernet cable, while a laptop could not?
00:27.35MaloeranThe ethernet of the 2 machines works just fine in other circumstances. Could it be that the laptop is not pumping enough current down the wire or something?
00:45.54yukonbobMaloeran: is it auto-detection of T568-A/T568-B in the NICs (ie: using/not-using a cross-over in incorrect situation)
00:46.57yukonbobpacks out
00:51.17MaloeranThanks bob. A friend connected the cable's ends, I guess it's possible he made a cross-over cable by mistake somehow
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09:15.38madantyep.. finally all tcls gone :)
09:15.38madantthanks sean :)
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15:37.13``Erikho hum
15:44.59``Erikhrm, still seeing the TclReFree issue with librt/regionfix.c :/
15:48.52homovulgarishmm.. no Tcl trouble with me
15:49.03homovulgarisi used --enable-all
15:51.51``Erikhrm, I have almost everything being build... I don't see this issue on fbsd, just mac
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19:01.40ssarangiHi all, I am new to the the brlcad source code and was wondering if somebody could point me to some documentation for the source code. The ones which I found were the individual vc project files description on Wikipedia
19:05.50``Erikhrm, there's no cohesive documentation for development afaik, there's a doxygen page somewhere (partial, was a project for a student over the summer), and something on developing applications with it, and a little info about the different libraries here and there... but really, it's a "just dig in", if you have specific questions or need a pointer for a task, just ask
19:08.58ssarangi''Erik: Thanks Erik. I just realized that and started reading the code based on the individual project descriptions from wiki. Actually, I myself work on dental cad product with C and Tcl and hence got really interested when I saw this. I was thinking of getting myself familiar with the code and then thinking if it was possible to join the development team for brl
19:24.40yukonbobssarangi: what's the project you work on?
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21:31.09ssarangiyukonbob: sorry I slept off suddenly. Well i work for a company which makes dental cad software
21:34.02yukonbobssarangi: cool -- what's the name of the company/software? (ie: is there info on the interweb about it?)
21:35.59ssarangiyukonbob: the name of the company is GeoDigm. The name of the software if eModel. There might be a variation available on the net.
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23:17.24starseeker_jeez - stixfonts released a beta, now wine is doing 1.0 release candidates - what's next, a Duke Nukem testers release??
23:24.11``Erikheh, there was a blurb saying late '08
23:24.29``Erikwhich got a lot of shit talkin' in the game community, naturally :>
23:24.55starseeker_Heh - it would be the all-time joke of the community if it sold a huge number of games...
23:25.03starseeker_copies rather
23:25.20``Erikit'd be boggling if it didn't look like q2 or halflife
23:25.46``ErikI'd just be amused if it came off better than, uh, daikatana
23:26.51starseeker_hehe
23:26.56``Erik(which is a stupid name, since, uhhh, daisho consists of daitoo (katana) and shootoo (wakizashi), iirc)
23:28.02starseeker_figures all the non-stupid names are taken already... sorta like horses
23:28.09starseeker_or programming languages...
23:28.30``Erik*google* *wiki* ooh, I remembered correctly, just spelled daishoo wrong :)
23:40.24starseeker_Well, the OO.org 3 beta doesn't install
23:40.26starseeker_grr
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080512

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080512

05:29.48CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31056 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/mirror.c: synopsis is implied first line with doxygen comments
06:07.41CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31057 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (log.c mirror.c): with the cleanup, move the doxygen comments into the public interface header where they belong instead of in the sources. make argv an array of pointers like main()
06:09.38CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31058 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): convert the wmater command as another test case, moving it from mged up into libged as ged_wmater(). still lots of room for improvement.
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13:09.35brlcadmorning homovulgaris
13:10.26archivisthehe what a nick
13:17.47*** join/#brlcad homovulgaris (i=homovulg@gateway/tor/x-d89d768eac2fce0d)
13:19.31homovulgarishi everybody :)
13:20.36homovulgarishi sean, i had got a mail from john.. :) military contractor sounds so spy-moviesque :)
13:20.46homovulgarisover the next 2 or 3 days i will wrap up the root solver test cases for the modification.
13:21.15homovulgarisfinalizing the libpg system would obviously take most of this month i guess ?
13:22.15brlcadi doubt it'll be "finalized" really, but probably enough to get started ;)
13:22.41homovulgarisyeah :) thought as much ;)
13:23.01homovulgarislast 2 days i have been translating my thesis model which i made in CATIA into .g via iges :)
13:23.36brlcadI still have questions/comments about how it integrates with librt, but I have to reread your latest writeup
13:24.05homovulgarisyeah.. in fact i need to edit it myself ..
13:24.07brlcadwhat kind of iges conversion?
13:24.12homovulgarisi will modify it and u can go over that tomorrow
13:24.22brlcadpolygonal or nurbs surfaced?
13:24.25brlcadokay
13:24.26homovulgarisiges-g
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13:24.34brlcadyeah, but which mode
13:24.34homovulgarisnurbs surfaced
13:24.38brlcadokay
13:25.12brlcadit'll render but that's rather experimental / unstable code, lots of issues
13:25.32brlcadthe old nurbs code falls flat on a lot of cases (as does the new nurbs code for that matter) :)
13:25.45homovulgarisyeah.. only got parts of my model
13:26.05homovulgarisi was playing with other options of iges-g
13:26.19homovulgarisi'll update the wiki and send a mail to the developer list
13:27.35brlcadcool
13:28.50homovulgarisi was also reading the documentation trying to model ;) kind of a methodological change opposed to CATIA :)
13:29.07homovulgarisor even the more mouse-on approach of other modelers ;)
13:30.03brlcadquite
13:30.32brlcadsomething that is slowly being changed, but not until we have full hybrid representation support, brep in particular
13:31.37brlcadpart of mafm's project is the start at a new gui that changes some of the fundamental methodologies that mged uses
13:32.15brlcadnot so tightly coupled modalities
13:33.14homovulgarisyeah i read his synopsis at soc site
13:33.23homovulgarisnew gui would be cool..
13:33.43homovulgarisone of my friends tried using brl-cad and couldnt figure out much ;)
13:33.53homovulgariswe are not so high on user-friendliness :)
13:33.54brlcadthere's no "figuring out" with mged
13:34.08brlcadyou HAVE to go through the tutorials and training just to understand the basics
13:34.12homovulgaris:D
13:34.35homovulgaristrue :)
13:34.43brlcadi mean it's quite powerful once you do, expert brl-cad modelers are pretty much on par with other cad systems but the learning curve is huge
13:35.40homovulgarisis there a repository of some of the models and works done in brl-cad ?
13:35.42brlcadthere's a lot of power "under the hood" too that not even mged exposes sometimes, that are in other outboard tools
13:35.59brlcadonly the same geometry databases in db/
13:36.05brlcads/same/sample/
13:36.24homovulgarishmm..
13:36.27brlcador rather .. there is a repository, a big one
13:36.30brlcadbut not one you can get at
13:36.52homovulgaris:) thought so ;)
13:37.16brlcadthere's a model for just about any modern military asset of significance
13:37.46brlcadhundreds in detail down to the wire
13:38.07homovulgariscan imagine :)
13:39.06brlcadthe havoc helicopter is available though, that one is in db/
13:46.29homovulgarisyeah that looks pretty kewl indeed :)
13:49.53homovulgariswhat about the snapshot at sourceforge .. that is one good render ;)
13:49.55homovulgarisstryker icw
13:50.33homovulgarisstryker icv
14:05.15brlcadthat's using the adrt path tracer (src/adrt)
14:05.36brlcadbut no, the model's not available :)
14:05.46``Eriksrc/adrt/rise actually, which very much doesn't work right now O:-)
14:08.01starseeker_There are a couple other models here:   http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=641557&group_id=105292&func=browse but nothing earth shattering
14:23.45MaloeranThe havoc model seemed to break when I tried to triangulate it with asc2g and extract the triangles long ago, some parts were missing I think
14:25.33CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31059 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/rmater.c: Imported from MGED.
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15:16.44andrecastelohey guys, morning :D
15:20.04``Erikhowdy
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15:29.31docelicHey folks, you know what's MIPSPro's equivalent of -rdynamic?
16:02.23CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31060 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/libged/libged.vcproj: Added rmater.c and wmater.c
16:02.23CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31061 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: Added declaration for get_rmater.
16:18.49andrecastelo``Erik: i sent a patch this weekend, don't know if it's good ;)
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17:14.36yukonbobmorning, cadheads
18:00.44``Erikhrm
18:04.58starseekerhrm?
18:05.42*** join/#brlcad Russ_W_ (i=46591c05@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-cbe6a6962018215c)
18:08.58Russ_W_I just installed the .deb for ubuntu but I don't see how to start brl-cad.  What do you type or click to start brl-cad?
18:12.35starseekerBRL-CAD has a lot of tools - you probably want to start with mged
18:14.45louipcthat question needs to be put in an FAQ or something
18:19.08CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31065 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (log.c mirror.c rmater.c wmater.c): Simplify the arg handling logic a bit.
18:20.05brlcadhowdy Russ_W_, run /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
18:20.07brlcadlouipc: indeed
18:21.09yukonboblouipc: wiki it up :)
18:21.39CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31066 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/item.c: Imported from MGED.
18:22.03yukonbobthinks BRL-CAD should install a kernel hack that displays a [START] button on the screen, specifically for mged
18:23.26CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31067 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): MGED's item command moved to libged.
18:24.02yukonbob[Start->mged] [Start->Shutdown] [Start->http://www.google.ca?query=wtf%20how%20do%20I%20draw%20a%20tank]
18:24.05brlcadyukonbob: a simple terminal interface that would be preconfigured for brl-cad tools and have buttons for mged and others is on the todo ;)
18:24.23yukonbob!really
18:24.27yukonbobwas obviously joking...
18:24.41brlcadso it would be a double-clickable item that could be installed
18:24.44yukonbobbrlcad: via curses, or TBD?
18:24.52brlcadknows, but there's some merit to some of the idea ;)
18:25.03brlcadideally a full-fledged terminal
18:25.07yukonbob"The truest thruths are said in jest"
18:25.12louipchmm does that captcha on the wiki require javascript
18:25.19yukonboblouipc: yup
18:25.19brlcadI played with one in Tcl and other using pdksh with a custom terminal
18:25.27louipcoh heh
18:25.30CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31068 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (CMakeLists.txt Makefile.am): MGED's item command moved to libged.
18:25.31brlcadthe issue I ran into was how to neatly get a pstty on windows
18:25.41brlcads/pstty/ptty/
18:25.43yukonbobnods
18:26.16yukonbobwouldn't think Tcl is actually well suited for a screen-oriented display -- unless it's a scrolling (ie: non-addressable) menu
18:26.17brlcadthe tcl approach kinda works around that problem, but gives me no termio controls without extra effort
18:26.59yukonbob:)
18:26.59brlcadbasically a tcl/tk terminal applicaitons
18:27.07brlcadand in that, I'd run something like pdksh
18:29.17brlcadhave it preconfigure the PATH, MANPATH, and LD_LIBRARY_PATH (if needed) so everything just works
18:29.40brlcadadd in some buttons on the gui for fast-access to mged, archer, rtwizard, bwish, etc
18:34.54louipcFAQ item added
18:46.42brlcadcool
19:07.18CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03louipc * r31069 10/brlcad/trunk/INSTALL:
19:07.18CIA-21BRL-CAD: Fix a couple of typos. Put TOC in correct order.
19:07.18CIA-21BRL-CAD: Add header for Post-Installation section.
19:41.15CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31070 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/wdb_obj.c: Added entries for the item and rmater commands.
21:33.43CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31071 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.h: Minor formatting.
22:01.59pacman87woohoo, done with finals
22:02.30pacman87i'll be back tomorrow, moving back home tonight
22:18.31*** join/#brlcad LetterRip (n=tom@blender/coder/pdpc.bronze.LetterRip)
22:19.18LetterRipanyone know of software related to process simulations that is under an open license?  ie simulation of tanks, instrumentation for detecting levels, valves, etc
22:20.45LetterRipwait think i've found one
22:45.42*** part/#brlcad pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu)
22:54.51brlcadheh
22:55.05brlcadooh, neat .. dual cloaks
23:02.32PrezKennedyso he finds it and then doesnt even say what it is...
23:15.49brlcad"BZFlag"
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080513

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080513

00:06.15*** join/#brlcad snakey2 (n=donnot@pool-70-106-239-33.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net)
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06:18.20yukonbobguesses PrezKennedy was referring to LetterRip
06:19.36yukonbobanybody know of a mature portable super-cool programming language with excellent libraries and multi-paradigm programming? Oh wait -- found it; bye.
06:19.40yukonbob:P
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11:14.05starseeker_yukonbob:  Lisp?
11:47.17archivistassembler, it can use all the other languages libraries :)
13:03.37``Erikscratches his head
13:04.11``Eriklithp is an assembler for a lisp machine, C is an assembler for a pdp/vax11, ... assembler is more a notion than a language per se :D
13:04.40archivisthehe
13:05.25archivistas a BSD lover did you the antique bug ``Erik http://www.newmobilecomputing.com/story/19731/The_25_Year_Old_BSD_Bug
13:09.23poolioheh, i saw that :P
13:19.08Miereromado you use rsync to update the BRL-CAD web?
13:24.21brlcadMiereroma: only for backups atm
13:27.45Miereromasomeone reported a broken page
13:28.06Miereromaand I found the file on the server is filled partially with nonsensical words. But in the SVN it's OK
13:28.29brlcadreported where?
13:28.31brlcadwhat page?
13:28.40MiereromaI have a strong hypothesis compressed data got corrupted on the network transmission (or because of memory error in either computers due to an alpha particle) and that generated the "speaking in toungues"
13:29.00Miereromatried by hand to swap few bits in a .txt.gz file and really manifests exactly like that :)
13:29.11Miereromabrlcad: Ronja website, http://ronja.twibright.com/about.php but it's already fixed
13:29.19Miereromaseems the CRCs are not strong enough
13:29.22Miereromaneeds more bits
13:29.45Miereromawhen we flush billions of gigabytes down the pipes every day no wonder this happens time to time
13:30.01MiereromaOne of the words it generated was "Miereroma" :)
13:30.39brlcadah
13:30.50Miereromaoriginally was "center"
13:31.04Miereromabut "ter" got replaced by "oma" in several places in the file
13:31.24Miereromalike if the computer invented it's own new language and partially translated some words into it ;-)
13:31.59MiereromaInteresting case where intelligence can actually come up from mistake. Maybe our human intelligence came the same way. Maybe we're just a mistake of the universe.
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14:40.29CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31072 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Added mater command to libged.
14:47.06pooliobrlcad: so any thoughts on a project?
14:53.24``Erikyes, archivist :) and I read a fair amount, and none is too terribly suprising
14:54.11``Erik(alpha particle? those'll stop in a couple cm of air, or paper, they won't penetrate an ethernet wire... gamma mebbe? :D )
14:55.16``Erikbrlcad, you talked to iraytrace yesterday? (apparently he missed lunch :> ) did you hear about his new acting position? :D
14:57.03Miereroma``Erik: but they come from the epoxy in the memory modules and penetrate into the chip and flip a bit
14:57.28MiereromaI am sure BRL-CAD can raytrace alpha particle rays ;-)
14:57.57``Erikhehehe epoxy emits alpha particles? wonder what the half life of the stuff is, I have an awful lot laying around
14:58.42Miereromamaybe russian chips they are surely molded into concrete instead of epoxy
14:58.55``Erikin soviet russia... sorry, I'll stop
14:59.50MiereromaThe Russian space shuttle buran exploded in the atmosphere
14:59.59MiereromaCollection teams managed to recover the following debris:
15:00.10Miereroma15 cast iron manhole covers, various sizes and shapes
15:00.20MiereromaOne broken toilet bowl, white ceramic
15:00.34Miereroma3 rebar concrete window ledges
15:00.44Miereroma1017 pieces of bathroom tiles
15:02.41Miereroma30-ton above-life-size bronze statue of Lenin
15:03.22starseekerActually, given the limitations the Russian space program does some remarkable work
15:04.16``Erik<-- always been impressed by russian technology, brutally tough and effective despite poor funding and purgings of the era :/
15:04.48Miereromawell I come from behind the Iron Curtain, and I created an optical wireless datalink from magnifying glasses and smoke pipes and rusty steel bars
15:05.18MiereromaAm sure the Westerns couldn't do it - maximum they could order a ready-made link with a VISA card
15:05.49``Erikthus proving that intelligent people come from all over the world... now if only the us politicians would admit that and get their heads out of their arses
15:06.15``ErikI'm sure there're many westerners that COULD do it, but why bother with all that effort when I can go buy one for two hours of work?
15:06.35MiereromaI would say the scarcity produced by the astronomical idiocy of the communist regime forced people to stimulate their brain if they wish to survive
15:07.20MiereromaLike academy of science scientists used to build their own houses from bricks with their own hands, because they couldn't afford buying one
15:07.38``Erikcuba also has some impressive efforts wrt technology, a native industry that keeps 50 year old foreign vehicles on the road with no outside aid O.o
15:08.19starseekercool - just like certain parts of the US ;-)
15:08.31Miereroma:)
15:08.43MiereromaLike Hawaii?
15:08.55``Erikhehhe, all canadians build their own houses from brick, they stomp down the snow and cut the bricks out of it and make their houses :D *duck*
15:09.07Miereroma``Erik: that's eskimoes
15:09.08``Erikbada-tish
15:09.36starseekeractually thinks we should be looking more seriously at using compressed earth as a building material
15:09.51``Eriklots of people do
15:09.53MiereromaI think we should excavate our houses into the ground
15:09.54``Erikbut we keep bombing them :(
15:10.04``Eriksod houses used to be common in the midwest
15:10.17Miereromayou don't need to add material, plus you get thermal insulation, plus more favourable average "outside" temperature -> ecological
15:10.31archivistcompressed earth== bricks (fired clay)
15:10.51``Eriksun baked is good 'nuff
15:10.54Miereromaplus, you have 3 dimensions of space instead of 2
15:10.59``Erikworked in the middle east for the last 6000 years
15:11.12archivistheh not so wet there
15:11.17``Erikmud even works with sunbaking to make a nice insulated waterproof house
15:11.20starseekerI think (IIRC) compressed earth uses local dirt pressed into bricks using very high pressures
15:11.22``Erikit used to be very wet there O.o
15:11.26Miereromamiddle east had the first civilization, 6000 BC ago
15:11.52Miereromaand now they have just one big mess
15:11.55``Erikseriously, ya think a bunch of humans would move into a desert and say "gee, lets start farming here!"?
15:12.09Miereroma``Erik: maybe server farming?
15:12.48``Erikhehehehe, I'd put my server farms as close to a pole as possible to reduce a/c cost and risk of losing cooling
15:13.22alex_joni``Erik: also get closer to superconductibility
15:13.50``Erikmodern IC's tend to go wonky if they get too cold, too :/
15:13.53starseekerheh - here we go, open source + dirt blocks:  http://openfarmtech.org/weblog/?cat=13
15:13.53alex_jonilearns it's actually spelled: superconductivity
15:14.16alex_joni``Erik: not special purpose ones .. :)
15:14.22``Erikwould rather do http://www.opensourcebeerproject.com/2007/07/15/open-source-beer-recipe-finalized/#comments
15:15.27``Erikspecial purpose IC's also don't go gimpy in cosmic radiation, so float it in an orbit that always keeps it in earths shadow, if you wanna go that route O.o :D
15:15.50alex_jonimight be a mess to find empty spots in orbit
15:17.22starseekerlooks for the plans for the press - wonder if they're using CAD...
15:17.38``ErikI d'no if the 'always dark/light' band is cluttered.. be close to geosyncronous, but if you're not worried about that, you could move it in a bit so it fluctuates north and south...
15:17.40``Erik*ponder*
15:18.08``Erikatmospheric drag would require more boost to keep it in orbit, tho
15:18.46``Erik*think* nah, I'm wrong, had the wrong frame of reference
15:19.07``Erikfar orbit lagrange point would be where it'd have to be :/
16:14.49louipchmm has anyone built the latest BRL-CAD for i386?
16:25.18brlcadlouipc: I have/had, but didn't make a dist for it
16:37.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31073 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Added edmater command to libged.
16:38.16louipcbrlcad: ah. Did drawing a torus work OK with that?
16:44.14CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31074 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (editit.c edmater.c): Added edmater command to libged.
16:55.10brlcadlouipc: er, can't say that I tried..
17:08.38CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31075 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/edmater.c: edmater relies on editit, rmater, and wmater
17:14.18CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31076 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/ged.h src/libged/editit.c): move the editit doc to the ged.h header
17:37.04``Erikbrlcad ignored his phone, now brlcad has no sushi
17:37.07``Erik:D
17:37.47brlcadah
17:37.51brlcadit's over in the other room
17:38.13brlcadi just finished eating some cheerios anyways
17:39.53``Eriko'sake wa sugoii ii desu ne
17:40.46``Erikroomaji make things look weird O.o :D
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18:06.11yukonbobstarseeker: re: Lisp -- I was being facecious w/ that little spiel -- like LetterRip, who had an interesting question, apparently answer it but didn't tell anybody, and just left...
18:06.43yukonbobwaves in
18:06.45yukonbobhello, cadheads
18:07.08CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31077 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/mirror.c: Need to use bu_log when wdbp is NULL.
18:36.10PrezKennedyyukonbob, i found a way to make millions of dollars
18:36.12PrezKennedyg2g bye
18:36.14PrezKennedy:-P
18:37.52louipcI found the meaning of life and the purpose of human existence.
18:37.59louipcgtg bye
18:47.36yukonbobPrezKennedy: heh :)
18:48.13yukonbobDoes anybody know how to make the BRL-CAD gui look like Solidworks?
18:48.20yukonbobOh got it... g2g bye
18:49.06yukonbobforesees this being a BRL-CAD meme
18:49.55louipchaha are you saying that is more elusive answer than the meaning of human existence? hahha
18:50.16alex_joniI found the answer to the universe, life and everything..
18:50.21yukonbobheh -- well no... but...
18:50.37yukonbobalex_joni: but the margins were too small to write down the solution?
18:50.47alex_joniyukonbob: no.. I'll share the solution
18:50.51alex_joniit's 42
18:51.08alex_joniyukonbob: the issue is figuring out the question :)
18:51.28yukonbobWhat is the average flight speed of an unladen swallow?
18:52.20alex_jonieuropean?
18:52.38alex_jonior african?
18:52.47yukonbobdunno
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18:53.06alex_jonithen.. err.. no
18:53.12alex_joniwrong question :)
18:53.25brlcadknows how to make BRL-CAD gui look like solidworks ;)
18:53.34alex_joniyukonbob: joke aside.. never read h2g2?
18:53.38yukonbobisn't surprised
18:53.39brlcadnot that that's the goal ;)
18:53.55yukonbobwaves to brlcad; how're things?
18:53.56archivistyes it is :))
18:54.01brlcadheh
18:54.03louipcsolidworks has too many buttons anyways
18:54.04brlcadyukonbob: pretty good
18:54.23alex_joniwonders who knows how to make solidworks look like mged
18:54.27archivistsorta luvs solidworks
18:54.29yukonbobalex_joni: no -- I've got it, but not delved into it... of course I know about "42" though.
18:54.31brlcadsolidworks is a great interface, closest to what we do, so definitely something to pay attention to (but not necessarily mimic exactly)
18:54.51alex_jonibrlcad: well.. I'm more a fan of alibre ;)
18:55.04alex_joninice-ish interface too
18:55.04yukonbobis a fan of mged and Tcl
18:55.16louipcI'm a fan of keyboard-driven interfaces
18:55.24yukonbobhow much more precise can you get than saying "Do it this way"?
18:55.38``Erikis a fan of writing code and making someone else model O:-)
18:55.40alex_joniyukonbob: way less precise..
18:55.54alex_jonibut in the learning curve.. maybe a bit faster to catch on
18:56.05yukonbobis a fan of filing bug reports and getting ``Erik to code
18:56.06yukonbobducks
18:56.31archivistyukonbob++
18:56.43alex_jonicareful.. he overflows easily
18:57.55yukonbob~karma
18:57.55ibotyukonbob has karma of 2
18:58.00alex_joniheh :)
18:58.18alex_joniyukonbob: at least you're not binary
18:58.37yukonbobThere are 10 kinds of people in the world...
18:58.47alex_joniheh
18:59.06alex_jonis/binary/bool/
18:59.18archivist#apache and karma debian, today it was about -606
18:59.33yukonbobs/bool/binary/ -- non-zero is a typical boolean true
18:59.38brlcadyukonbob: you should remind/annoy me to post up an architecture diagram at some point (not today) :)
18:59.55archivistis it done yet?
19:00.31brlcadit's been done for a long time, lots of detail not sorted out, but the big picture is there
19:00.57yukonbobshould sink his teeth into something attainable again wrt BRL-CAD -- perhaps more docbook, now that my eyes are uncrossed...
19:01.33brlcadagrees ;)
19:01.36yukonbobstarseeker_: what's the status of the big piece of docbook you were working on?
19:01.55brlcadhe put one of his docs into the repo already, doc/docbook
19:04.57CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31078 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/ (Makefile.am docbook/Makefile.am docbook/oed/Makefile.am): remove the vars, cause more trouble than they're worth; simplify build vars to just what's needed
19:05.35yukonboblistens to the "autechre" channel on last.fm, hits keyboard
19:06.44CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31079 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: move the docbook items up in the list, separate out autogeneration/integration with the build system
19:06.51brlcadtunes in to autechre
19:07.47brlcadhmm.. not bad :)
19:08.14brlcadgood coding music
19:08.26yukonbob:)
19:09.23``Erikis a fan of bitching and whining about broken code until brlcad fixes it O:-)
19:10.05yukonbob...when he's not talking about how Lisp and asm are the only True Languages... ;)
19:10.22``Erikheh, I don't think I've ever espoused the virtues of asm
19:10.35``Erikand I'm more of a thchemer than a lithper :)
19:11.32yukonbobthough he wanted to be a lithsper, but then dethided sthcheme might be the way -- but has still not _really_ got into it as much as he should...
19:13.50yukonbob*thought he wanted...
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20:16.27CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31080 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/ (if.c parse_fmt.c usrfmt.h): Some preliminary work in support of gap reporting - more pieces are needed
20:33.19CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31081 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: make closing both the command window and graphics window shut down mged (i.e., fix unintentional behavior)
20:34.03brlcadadds an FAQ item about printing and expands the couple dozen related pages that topic dragged in
20:40.32brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/FAQ has the new entry
20:41.40brlcadI also fixed RSS feeds, so feed://brlcad.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Recentchanges&hidebots=0&feed=rss will work now for example (to keep track of the latest changes)
20:42.26brlcadchange that to feed=atom for Atom feeds
20:48.50louipcnice
21:05.47``Erikwhoa
21:06.37``Erikneat, I load up a wiki page and the text is normal, highlight a word and that one line turns bold (and doesn't unturn bold if I unhighlight)
21:10.15louipchooray for the internets
22:01.36brlcadBrothomstates .. nifty
22:09.16CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31082 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/ (if.c parse_fmt.c usrfmt.h): Reporting gaps now on command line nirt - mged version isn't happy yet
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080514

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080514

00:10.45MaloeranThat's kind of nice. My friend messed up completely while connecting the ends of an ethernet cable, 4 of the 8 cables are mixed up, and the ethernet cable still works!... with a packet drop rate of 15%
00:11.45MaloeranMore specifically, it only works with the ethernet of this dual-quad-xeon, all other computers refuse to work with the cable
00:14.08brlcadthat's messed up
00:14.39brlcadpresumably a gigE connection?
00:14.57brlcadsince it allows for bidirectional cross-over
00:15.55archivistive had broken network cables limp along, probably helps if the switch/card can auto sense reversed cable as well
00:16.31MaloeranInteresting. It's vaguely amusing that the cable does work, but with a packet drop rate of 15%
00:16.44MaloeranI would have asumed the cable would either work or not at all
00:16.57Maloeranassumed*
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01:24.00CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31083 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/cmd.c: remove dead code related to savedit and get (which is in libged/wdb_obj)
01:25.24CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31084 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/cmd.h: remove comment for f_list
01:27.04yukonbobMaloeran: maybe the send/receive are on the same wire, but it's either poorly connected or(/and) not wired to T569-A specs, which have specfic pairs designated to be connected in a certain order...
01:27.43yukonbob*T568-A -- not 569
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01:53.11PrezKennedyhey... anyone know where i can find a compiler that compiles perfect code just from what you tell it? i hate programming
01:54.20PrezKennedyah, found it
01:54.23PrezKennedygood night!
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01:59.15pacman87i'm back
02:19.18CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31085 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (cmd.c cmd.h setup.c): move the command table to setup along with cmd_setup so that it may be static. made it obvious that there were a slew of unnecessary decls that could be removed too.
02:40.40starseeker_PrezKennedy:  Not perfect, no - the closest known tool is called the grad student
02:44.11MaloeranPrezKennedy, I find that gas or any other assembler can produce fairly perfect code
02:45.01MaloeranThough that may also depend of the programmer
02:58.57starseeker_Whoops, I lied - it looks like mged is OK with the new nirt code after all, once I rebuild it correctly *cough*
02:59.51starseeker_getting double printing...
02:59.53starseeker_hmm...
03:01.48starseeker_Oh, good I didn't lie - it's busted in a different way
03:01.49starseeker_phew
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03:07.06CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31086 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/if.c: Whoops - r_exit, not r_entry, should be preserved for gap
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03:30.24CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31087 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/cmd.c: reorder to remove need for decls
03:34.14yukonbobbrlcad:  ping
03:34.33yukonbobis there a way to trace the assignment of a var (in C) w/ gdb?
03:35.06yukonbobsees breakpoints, and "collect", but I was hoping for somethin more automagic...
03:35.34yukonbob*something
03:41.22yukonbobsees (?) breakpoints might be more powerfull than he thought...
03:45.27CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31088 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/setup.c: static -> HIDDEN
03:46.56CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31089 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/cmd.c: tighten the _WIN32 block on % so it'll at least provide help
03:49.20yukonbobloads up gdb into xemacs...
04:28.55brlcadyukonbob: pong
04:28.59brlcadyes, you can set a watch
04:31.49yukonbobbrlcad:  hey -- I'm trying to solve a Segment Violation -- I can see what ptr is being used uninitialized -- I need to find out when/where this is happening...
04:32.27yukonbobis getting a bit of ahandel w/ xemacs/gdb (read: it's awesome), but I haven't developed good gdb-fu yet ;)
04:45.58louipcyukonbob: woot xemacs
04:54.58yukonboblouipc: indeed, indeed.
04:55.12yukonbobw00t screen, too :)
05:40.30CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31090 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/parse.c): make the input string of bu_shader_to_tcl_list() be const, make a copy so it can still insert the nulls as a separator but just still don't modify the original
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08:23.00CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31091 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/vls.c: move the (unused) HAVE_SHELL_ESCAPE logic from rt_split_cmd() on over into bu_argv_from_string() so that rt_split_cmd() can be marked deprecated
08:25.07CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31092 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/getopt.c: match the header prototype, char *[]
08:26.33CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31093 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (remrt/remrt.c remrt/rtsrv.c tab/tabinterp.c tab/tabsub.c): convert from rt_split_cmd to bu_argv_from_string
08:28.23CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31094 10/brlcad/trunk/ (doc/deprecation.txt include/raytrace.h src/librt/cmd.c): formally deprecate rt_split_cmd(), callers should now use bu_argv_from_string() instead
08:55.41CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31095 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 2 dirs): make the new ged functions all use const char **argv's so callers can be sure the library doesn't modify their data
09:00.14CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31096 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (17 files):
09:00.15CIA-21BRL-CAD: major constification of all the converted commands as well as those they relate
09:00.15CIA-21BRL-CAD: to or indirectly call. ended up needing to make a heck of a lot more const than
09:00.15CIA-21BRL-CAD: expected. add the start of a new 'generic' mged command parser for the new ged
09:00.16CIA-21BRL-CAD: commands (unused but stubbed).
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12:20.27brlcadyawns
12:21.05CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31097 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/ (nirt.c parse_fmt.c): Add missing break, add g to fmt options. Reading state file now works, mged still not happy.
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13:04.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31098 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/3dm/3dm-g.cpp: made the code portable (using the standard string header)
13:10.18CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31099 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/3dm/ (CMakeLists.txt Makefile.am): MS Windows port of 3dm-g with CMake build system generator
13:13.39CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31100 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libsysv/CMakeLists.txt: we do not need neither redata.c nor regex.c too for MS Windows
13:15.05yukonbob!cmake
13:16.55CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31101 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/CMakeLists.txt: revised, e.g. for CMake 2.6
13:20.46CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31102 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/CMakeLists.txt: include 3dm-g and require at least CMake 2.6
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13:22.56CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31103 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.def: added some additional functions to the list (e.g. mk_brep)
13:25.42CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31104 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/CMakeLists.txt: fixed a problem with dependencies and linked libraries on MS Windows
13:29.27CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31105 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): link and use openNURBS as a shared library
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15:54.08CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31106 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/dbfindtree.tcl: Added a -l option to dbfindtree for returning the paths in a list.
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17:21.37CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31107 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Add mged support for new option, set default output for gap to nil to mimic old behavior by default.
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17:22.18homovulgarishi everybody :)
17:22.50prasad_hi dr nick
17:22.52homovulgarishi Sean, I was working on rewriting the wiki page and realised i should talk to you before writing too much arbitrary stuff :P
17:25.42homovulgarisi have been looking at the prospect of implementing parametrics and constraints as two connected but distinct domains
17:26.48brlcadhowdy homovulgaris
17:26.51brlcadwb
17:29.25homovulgarisconstraint definition, satisfaction and associated structures required in terms of constraint network is pretty involved in itself ;)
17:29.58homovulgarisso i think we should look at the parametric implementation and constraint implementation quite a bit :)
17:30.22homovulgarisbecause in the end it is the constraints which are going to be more productive ( like maintaining tangency for example)
17:30.51homovulgarisof course parametrics is a necesary prerequisite for constraints to exist i believe
17:31.46homovulgarishow i was visualising the flow was 1. you ask libpg to create a parameter based geometry ( line dependent on 2 points for example )
17:32.35homovulgaris2. libpg creates this structure in memory space and produces the necessary arguments to store it in .g file and asks librt to do it
17:33.43homovulgaris3. it creates a feed so that other parametric objects can subscribe to it so that they can automatically update themselves if this object changes and they are "interested" in it
17:34.00homovulgarisI am still thinking about how exactly to store this information in .g files
17:34.59archivistin any given context only x constraints are possible , let the user choose
17:35.59homovulgaristhat is true. i mean given n objects there are various constraint possibilities between them and the user has to choose which one to use.
17:36.48homovulgarisbasically .g has to support new data in terms of a) parameters related to each geometry and b) new non-geometric objects called constraints
17:38.13homovulgarisa. further breaks down into 1. numerical parameter values, 2. pointers or reference to parents or geometry which it depends on 3. data about which feeds to subscribe to which i think is basically 2 itself
17:38.27archivistif user attempts to over constrain, error and allow it to be  driven not driving
17:41.29homovulgarismathematical definition of constraints is using a 3-tuple
17:41.31homovulgarisbasically 1. variables 2. domains and 3. relations
17:41.35homovulgarisin our case this would be 1. geometry and parameters 2. range for parameters and 3. constraint type definition
17:41.37homovulgariswhat would be a good method for storage of such data in .g
17:41.41homovulgarisor do u think it would be functional to store them in a different file ?
17:44.01homovulgarisusing attribute value system would obviously be a hack method as sean mentioned on the mailing list
17:44.08homovulgarisso we indeed need to support two new data types in .g
17:44.52homovulgarisone are parametric objects ( which are non-geometric but contain geometry inside them) and two constraint objects
17:46.20homovulgarisarchivist, in other systems ( catia for example) over constraining is generally not shown as an error but the user is notified by showing those set of geometry which is overconstrained in a different colour
17:46.55archivistsolidworks warns and says do you want this driven
17:46.57homovulgarisso that the user can delete some other constraint and make it ok for example.
17:48.23homovulgariseither ways constraint satisfaction is far away :) i am still tackling constraint definition ;)
18:23.41brlcadhomovulgaris: I agree .. constraints are really the end-user feature, and parametric equation support is sort of the underlying feature that supports it
18:45.49homovulgarishi brlcad, i mean parameters themselves can be an end-user feature like a sphere whose radius is a parameter which the user can vary.. but i think more funtional use would be in terms of constraints
18:48.58homovulgarismy major concern is in terms of storage in .g
18:50.18archivistsome of my parts are driven by spreadsheets
18:53.17archivistI dont like the external use of a spreadsheet, but do like the functionality
18:58.49homovulgarisarchivist: what do u use spreadsheets for ( :) i feel like a complete noob )
19:00.55archivistI draw clocks, the gear parts are driven by a spredasheet to give thickness, module center hole dia and number of teeth, there are some calcs to get dimensions
19:01.29archivistangles, outside dia
19:01.54archivistand hidden construction lines
19:03.46archivistso the calcs represent some british clock gear cutting standard
19:27.45homovulgarisso how do u synchronise the data in spreadsheets and the geometry ? using scripts ?
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19:38.51archivistfires up windaz and solidworks and irc....
19:40.47archivist_winin a parts hierachy is a design table thats an excel spreadsheet (they use external fuctionality fom withing solidworks)
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19:44.03archivistnamed columns refer to named dimensions in a part
19:44.30archivistnamed rows refer to versions of the part
19:49.07CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31108 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/nirt/nirt.1 src/nirt/parse_fmt.c src/nirt/usrfmt.h): Add option to nirt that allows reporting of gaps, per request #1933724 - includes expansion of Query Ray panel in mged
19:50.07archivist<PROTECTED>
19:50.56homovulgarisarchivist: hmm.. dassault.. they have something similar called design tables in catia too.. basically one design alternative per row
19:51.27archivistdassault own solidworks as well
19:51.54homovulgarisyeah.
19:51.57homovulgariswhats dedendum ?
19:52.10homovulgarisand module the single values at the bottom i mean ?
19:52.10archivistroot of tooth
19:52.29archivistconstants
19:52.54homovulgarishmm.. k
19:53.01archivistleave a gap in the rows and its free space for the user
19:53.44CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31109 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/nirt.1: Add 'g' to man page for nirt
19:54.04archivistI dont draw to absolute accuracy (not enough time)
20:04.49homovulgaris:)
20:05.49archivistthere is a subdir there clock which has a web 3d of a design
20:06.13archivistif you have windows (silly restrictions)
20:08.29homovulgaris:( on linux .. will check it out when i am on windows ( note to self: this is why i should get my laptop repaired )
20:09.28archivistI tried serving it on debian, no go, had to proxy to the winbox (wont be up 24/7)
20:23.18*** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@123.208.126.231)
20:32.06brlcadhomovulgaris: sorry for the sporadic input, busy day .. lots of comments pending :)
20:39.05homovulgarisno probs :)
20:42.17homovulgarisis this the final draft ? http://ftp.arl.army.mil/~mike/papers/brlcad5.0/newdb.html
20:47.18homovulgarisand WOW.. mike muuss wrote ping
20:48.41homovulgarisi guess he got that wherever he went inspite of being the architect of brl-cad ;)
20:52.57CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31110 10/brlcad/trunk/ (9 files in 4 dirs): Added make_name and make commands to libged.
20:55.13brlcadhomovulgaris: it's close to a final draft, but it's not 100% consistent with what was ultimately implemented.  some minor idents are different, some features aren't implemented (like compression support)
20:56.08brlcadthe source is the reference, of course, librt being where the db i/o layer is implemented
20:56.13homovulgarisk so that draft+code would be the best approach ?
20:57.04brlcadthe draft is a good starting point just for understanding the overall structure of a .g file -- as to what pieces you care about depends on how exactly the equations are persisted/stored
20:57.27brlcadas attributes there is no need to modify the db format, it all happens in the library
20:57.54brlcadas new object types, it depends which type and how robustly the modifications are added for the new non-geom objects
20:58.49homovulgariswe are using machine independent .g files right ?
21:00.22homovulgaristhe way i was seeing it.. a non geometric parametric object basically contains geometry ( example a Line which connects two points)
21:00.58CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31111 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/nirt.c: Add logic to check for scripts in brlcad data directory (which doesn't exist yet) - may want to change this so local file with same name overrides global file?
21:01.08brlcadyeah, v5 .g files are machine independent
21:01.30homovulgarisso basically the PLIne is a non-geometric object which contains 1. the geometric object line 2. references to the two points indicating they are parents
21:01.34brlcadv4 .g files are not, nobody should be using those (and you don't have to worry about backwards support for them)
21:02.23CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31112 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/qray.h: Removed extra double-quote from QRAY_FORMAT_NULL.
21:02.59homovulgariswhen we come to constrain objects which are non-geometric again, then they have the three types of data i mentioned earlier
21:03.05brlcadreads the earlier comments to catch up
21:04.23homovulgarisbasically 1. variables 2. domains and 3. relations ..in our case this would be 1. geometry and parameters 2. range for parameters and 3. constraint type definition
21:05.10homovulgaristhe attribute system could work for storing the parameters but seems like a reverse method of storage.
21:05.50homovulgarisfor constraint objects i have to figure out the v5 database more i guess
21:06.00brlcadyou're not making it easy to catch up :P
21:06.32homovulgarissorry :P
21:09.01homovulgarisbasically there would be two types of new objects introduced
21:09.01homovulgaris1. parametric objects
21:09.02homovulgaris2. constraint objects
21:09.02homovulgarisboth of them are non-geometric in the present sense
21:11.29brlcadto answer from earliery, don't think it's at all functional to store in a different file .. needs to be in the .g and the 'right way' is probably as new object types like you're suggesting
21:12.31brlcadinstead of "containing" geometry, it can simply reference the geometry it applies to
21:13.08homovulgarisyeah i also felt that storing in a separate file is not exactly very functional
21:13.18brlcadthe danger worth avoiding is layering in YAGF that isn't associated with existing geometry being created
21:13.58homovulgarishmm..
21:15.08brlcadthe parameters are known values/objects/reference points if I'm not mistaken
21:16.27homovulgarismost of the times
21:16.44homovulgarisi mean at times they maybe some value of a property not already supported by the existing geometry representation
21:17.01homovulgarislike if i want a point which is at a ratio 0.6 between two points
21:17.15homovulgaristhe value 0.6 is a parameter
21:17.36homovulgarisbut it  is not part of the point object for example. but yes it is a known value
21:18.19homovulgarisok.. so in .g using a different object Header / flags we can denote the fact that it is a non-geometric object type ..
21:29.21homovulgarisand in terms of workflow since u create geometry at the same time as constructing parameters , writing the parametric object type will also result in writing the corresponding geometry object into .g
21:29.27homovulgariswhile reading the .g file later we will have to take care of the association with non-existing geometry
21:29.32homovulgarisand what about the feed system ( i mentioned earlier :) ) well basically parametrics would imply objects depending on other objects depending on other objects and so on.
21:29.37homovulgarisso basically instead of keeping track of the whole chain of linkages, each parametric object basicaly starts a feed
21:29.42homovulgarisand all the objects which are "interested" ( in other words dependent on it directly) subscribe to this feed.
21:29.47homovulgarisso that if due to some reason geometry a gets updated, all its subscribers will get the news
21:29.48homovulgarisand can update themselves
21:30.03brlcadso say someone creates a sphere (sph1) with radius 10 at 0,0,0 .. then later wants to add a constraint (ct1) that the sphere remain tangent to the 0,0 XY plane -- I was thinking that the ct1 object would be a non-geom object that refers to it something akin to tangent(sph1, plane(0,0,0,0,0,1))
21:30.47brlcadthen resolving that tangency constraint, it'd resolve that the radius and/or position can still change, and adjust accordingly as edits to sph1 are made
21:32.51brlcadthe subscription/feed idea sounds reasonable, I could see it working like that or as a graph in memory (it still is a graph, just an implementation detail)
21:33.26homovulgarisyeah basically a graph. but i think this implementation would be easier to maintain
21:34.16homovulgarisand regarding the sphere tangency .. yep.. the ct1 object would basically have two parents or participants ( sph1 and the plane) and the condition between them tangency
21:34.34brlcadone thing to think about will be how to keep the two separate yet also have an update/evaluate/resolve step
21:35.20homovulgarisand the fact that the sphere can change 4 parameters here ( the three coordinates and the radius ) is because sph1 is an object which has been explicitly made using those parameters
21:35.27brlcadwhere that example gets really tricky, though, is now say the object is not a sphere..
21:35.47brlcadsay it's a rotated elliptical toroid
21:36.05brlcadif I can "preserve tangency" .. that's pretty darn hard
21:36.17brlcadat least with the implicit representation
21:36.27homovulgarison the other hand imagine a parametric sphere sph2 which has the centre ( which is defined as a point on a line) and radius as the distance between two other points
21:37.01homovulgarisso fundamentally the ranges over which sph2 can vary is very different from sph1 because it is defined differently
21:38.42homovulgarisconstraint satisfaction problems alll follow similar solution techniques once they have been formulated into a constraint network
21:38.50brlcadI think what I'm getting at is how you can go about adding support for the 30+ existing primitives in a generalized manner
21:39.58homovulgariswe will have one object type for each type of primitive
21:40.09brlcador if it can't really be easily generalized and libpg actually ends up needing to know about all of them
21:40.26brlcadwhich is less than ideal for many reasons
21:40.39brlcadhave one object type for each type of primitive means what?
21:40.53homovulgarisbut since each of these primitives can themselves be defined implicitly in different ways
21:41.55homovulgarisbasically we will have a Point Object a Curve Object a Surface object
21:42.15brlcadgah, see that gets back to replicating the geometry
21:43.08brlcadthat's really undesirable as the geometry information is already there in a compact well-behaved form
21:43.36homovulgarishow much does brlcad use opennurbs ?
21:43.38homovulgariswe wont be replicating the geometry
21:44.17homovulgaristhe kind of information i am talking about is not what is already there
21:44.35brlcadit might come down to getting those pieces out of a given primitive perhaps, but those routines would have to be written
21:45.07homovulgarislike for example a Point parametric object would simply be a reference to a line, ratio and then the reference to the line geometry object
21:45.12brlcadopennurbs is presently only used for the brep object type, a new experimental/developmental primitive
21:45.21homovulgarisso the new information we are storing are in terms of relationship we are not storing anywhere else
21:45.38homovulgarisyeah i was reading about brep
21:46.02homovulgarishow would csg and brep work together :)
21:46.29brlcadand the idea that another student will be working on over the summer will be implementing a new *_brep() routine for each primitive to describe that primitive in the brep format using opennurbs
21:46.52homovulgarisbasically the new object types for the primitives i was talking about only store the parametric data ( which we do not have support for right now and hence do not store)
21:46.56brlcadthey work together as I can ask for the object in either format and evaluate accordingly
21:47.12brlcadif you're ray-tracing, you'd want to use the implicit form, for example
21:47.21homovulgarisk
21:47.40brlcadif tessellating, you want to extract the brep, perform brep-on-brep csg evaluation, and tessellate the resulting evaluated brep
21:48.10brlcadyou have boundaries and surfaces with brep, but you don't with implicits
21:48.17homovulgarisok
21:48.47brlcadbut there are still parameterizable values with implicits that should/can/could work with this system
21:49.06homovulgarishmm.. never liked surface modelers.. :) sketchup for one :P
21:50.24homovulgarisbasically to support different primitives we would need different objects
21:50.26brlcade.g. if you completely ignore the brep work for starters, and say I have a blob of unioned and intersected torii .. and I want to constrain them to be tangent to some other object, say a box
21:51.18homovulgarisof course brep and parametrics has nothing in common as of now :)
21:51.19brlcadhow do you forsee that working with that example?
21:52.20homovulgarishmm.. union and intersection will have to be implemented for parametrics
21:52.55homovulgarisimplemented in the sense stored
21:53.20archivistone uses an axis/plane from any object for its reference in a constraint often
21:53.36brlcadit's already stored
21:53.45brlcadthat is, it's available to you
21:53.55homovulgarisso that the parametric system or constraint system can know that it is built using that particular operation.
21:53.55homovulgarishow is the union / intersection currently stored in .g ?
21:54.14brlcadit's a combination
21:54.36homovulgarisif that is the case then the constraint would look something like tangency( box, torii_output) right
21:54.38brlcada combination object that refers to it's contituents by name and operator
21:54.58homovulgarisso basically our parameters would depend on how the torii are defined
21:55.57brlcade.g. make tor1 tor2 .. tor100 torii then create a combination "comb1" that is tor1 union tor2 intersect tor3 union tor4 ... etc .. union tor100
21:56.07homovulgarisso that variation would be in terms of the two radii of each torii..
21:56.27brlcadand then as a user, I want to say "comb1 must remain tangent to tor101" for example
21:56.47brlcador box or whatever
21:57.30homovulgarisbasically in constraint satisfaction all you have to care about is ..what can you vary and how much can you vary it.
21:57.40homovulgarisin this case lets say the box is fixed
21:57.52brlcadsure
21:58.03homovulgaristhen you can vary the definition of each of these 100 torii
21:58.28brlcadnot really, combinations are rigid objects for all intensive purposes
21:59.16brlcadyou might allow scaling if it's not clamped, but otherwise we're talking even just how you align the shape and actually find the tangency point
21:59.17homovulgarisso how do u want them to be tangent ?
21:59.26homovulgarisby orientation change ?
21:59.27brlcads/the/a/
22:00.34homovulgaristhis basically would mean a datum geometry
22:01.18homovulgarisby datum geometry i imply the fact that the combination is fundamentally non-parametric .. it has nothing the system can vary. so the only thing the system can do is translate/ rotate and scale
22:01.20brlcadyes, basically by orientation .. it's finding that orientation+position that's the (really, really) hard part when dealing with the implicit form
22:02.00brlcadi think i'm just convincing myself that it's really not feasible to perform that sort of constraint without a brep evaluation
22:02.23homovulgaris:D
22:02.36brlcadat best you could maybe do it for the primitives themselves
22:02.38homovulgarisi think it would be feasible
22:02.43homovulgaristhis case i mean in general i am not sure
22:02.45brlcadi'm still not hearing how though
22:02.52brlcadeven for this case
22:02.57homovulgaristrue
22:03.03brlcadsay you just have two torii
22:03.21brlcadwhere one is just slightly shifted to the left/right and is subtracted
22:03.54brlcadso you end up with a big "C" sliver on the outside and another on the inside facing the other way
22:04.25brlcadif I said "make that combination tangent" to anything .. there's no practical way to found out where the tips of that C are
22:04.36homovulgarisbasically .. given the two torii
22:04.48brlcadwithout ray-tracing the hell out of it
22:05.03homovulgarisafter the combination given any point on the surface i can know the tangent value
22:05.11brlcadthat's my point
22:05.18brlcadyou don't know any point on the surface with implicits
22:05.25brlcadthe surface is .. implicit ;)
22:05.50brlcadand that just gets worse (much much higher order) when you throw in csg operations
22:06.00homovulgarisyeah so u need the boundary representation :P
22:06.12brlcadyou evaluate the surface of an implicit with ray-tracing
22:06.32brlcadyou could implement some sort of newtonian search that uses ray-tracing to find the closest point, but that'd be really nasty
22:07.23homovulgarishmmm..
22:07.47brlcadnow what could be useful is instead of the brep form, I think you might just need "handles" and there may be a generalized way to describe that for any geometry
22:08.23yukonbobwaves in; afternoon, gentlemen (and ladies?)
22:09.12brlcade.g. for a sphere, the handles are its center point and radius; for a box, it's the 8 corner points, 12 edges, and center point
22:09.38brlcadso you could add routines to each primitive that amount to "what are your available handles"
22:10.07homovulgarishmm.. basically entities which would help you calculate stuff ?
22:10.25brlcade.g. for a brep, it's all the points, edges/curves, and surfaces that define the object and a center point
22:10.32brlcadyeah
22:12.26homovulgarisbut then these routines would vary widely with respect to each primitive right ?
22:12.43brlcade.g. for a right circular cylinder it's the center point, 2 curves for the circular ends, two radius values for those circles, and the length
22:13.32brlcadyeah, each primitive would be very different, but still only amounting to a limited set of parameterizable values that can be used in the equations/constraints
22:14.52homovulgaristhey can be used in equations and constraints but are not themselves modifiable right
22:15.17brlcadwhy not?
22:15.58homovulgaristhey are basically for usage in equations and not for determination and definition of geometry
22:16.00homovulgarisfor example in the case of a sphere
22:16.28brlcadah, missed the dcc, feel free to resend
22:16.34homovulgariswe have center and radius which are two parameters
22:17.15homovulgaris(it was on constraint satisfaction)
22:17.57homovulgarisok.. wait.. what i have been calling parameters till now are mostly generative parameters or in other words parameters which are necessary to define or create a geometry.
22:18.59brlcadthat's a bit of a recursive definition there ;)
22:20.00homovulgaris:D
22:20.45homovulgarisok lets call them values and objects necessary for creation of objects
22:22.40brlcadi don't care so much what we call everything as it really all blends together -- the main distinction I do make, though, is that we have -- say -- a sphere that is stored a point and a radius .. and now we're adding these things that we're calling parameter objects or constraint objects or widgets whatevers where I get to specify the range/domain of valid values that sphere's position and radius can have
22:23.03homovulgarisso in the case of the above sphere ( we have 2 parameters ( 1. center point 2. radius )
22:23.03homovulgaris( about dcc argh.. my college firewall sucks :(( )
22:23.29brlcadyeah, it announces as 127.0.0.1
22:23.46homovulgarisyep
22:23.50homovulgaris:P
22:24.28brlcadso in that sphere example, there are at least two objects .. the sphere itself and this constraint/parameter/equation object
22:24.44brlcadwrt the .g file at least
22:25.07brlcadthe constraint/parameter/equation object necessarily refers to the sphere object of course
22:25.23brlcadso you have your (as yet) one-node graph there
22:25.37homovulgaris( and continuing with the spere analogy: there could be other definitions of the sphere . example a sphere with center on a line and radius as the distance between some other points A and B )
22:25.50homovulgarisso we have two objects additional to the sph1 object in .g file
22:26.30brlcadso if I impose a constraint of radius==5 or position.x = sqrt(radius) etc
22:27.09brlcaddude, pick a more simple example than "center on a line and radius as the distance between some other points A and B" :)
22:27.11homovulgaris1 is the parametric object which stores information relating to the fact that the center is on a line and that the radius is the distance between two points )
22:27.26brlcadthere are way too many prepositionals in there :)
22:28.17homovulgarisand 2 is the constraint object ( which is basically where u can specify situations like tangency with a plane )
22:28.38homovulgaris:P
22:28.38homovulgarisok see in our example of a sphere with a centre and radius
22:28.41homovulgariswe have sph1 in .g
22:29.01homovulgariswe also have a parametric object in .g specifying the fact that the sphere is built using a radius and a centre or 2 parameters
22:29.18homovulgaristill now we dont need to do anything about constraints
22:31.19homovulgarisnow lets say we decide that we are going to need the sphere to be always tangent to xy plane.. that is a relation with 1. another object ( xy plane) and 2. does not affect how the sphere was originally defined **directly**
22:31.23brlcadI don't see the point of the parametric object, can just refer to one of the object's 'parameters' .. you can implement knowledge of valid parameters into the primitives and combinations
22:31.49homovulgaristhat is when we need a constraint object
22:32.38brlcadi suppose i was only seeing them as the two combined
22:33.16homovulgarisbasically i think csg has a limited set of ways of defining the primitives
22:33.37homovulgarisby using the parametric system we can define the same set of primitves in more number of ways
22:33.57brlcadyou can have constraints that refer to nothing, effectively just become named parametric equations (e.g. my_sine_obj ==> f(x) = sin(x), which has "one parameter")
22:35.33brlcadi'm not saying not have "the parametric system", you just said "object" which makes me think database object .. I don't see what having two database object types gives us when the first one really is just a handle on what the primitives already have
22:37.26homovulgarisk
22:37.32brlcadam I misunderstanding something about what you just referred to as the parametric object type's purpose?  how's having param1 object that provides sph1's radius and center as two parameters different than allowing named convention of obj.parameter or something similar (e.g. sph1.radius) that gets used in the constraint object
22:38.28homovulgarisyeah i know.. but there are different methods of defining the same primitive right ( like if i take the example of a point which is not a primitive right now i guess ? 1. a point can be defined as being on a plane and specified by two coordinates, 2. being on a line specified by a ratio 3. being a projection of another point on a line 4. being a projection of a point on a plane 5. between two points specified by a ratio .. and so o
22:38.29homovulgarisn ) and all these points can be represented using simply coordinates as well.. so multimple definition systems can have a common storage system
22:38.30brlcadon disk, it's useful to remember that everything is a named reference
22:40.55homovulgarislike for example considering defining a sphere as one passing through 3 points.. so parametrically it depends on three points.. on the present .g system it would be stored as sph3.. using radius and centre values and the **parametric** object would have reference to sph3 and reference to the three points
22:42.00brlcadokay, i see that example, but that still to me are just various formulas/equations .. so if we did have a point object, he'd have one inherint "parameter" for the xyz values, if you wanted the various 1/2/3/4/5 methods, that'd be a constraint/parameter/equation object similar to my my_sine_obj => f(x) = sin(x) example
22:42.19homovulgarisi hope i am not confusing u between points in space and a point actually existing as a primitive
22:45.48brlcadfor your sphere through 3 points example, it'd be the sph object and a parameter/constraint/equation object that would describe that relationship, namely you'd need some sort of enclosure operation
22:46.28homovulgarishmmm..  never thought in that direction
22:47.30homovulgarisbasically looking at the definition of the geometry as a constraining process in itself
22:47.50brlcadwith your 3 points example, what exactly does it contain other than the reference to sph3 and the three points?
22:48.12brlcadit == parametric object
22:48.47homovulgarisin .g file yes
22:49.04brlcadheh, it wasn't a yes/no question ;)
22:49.13homovulgarisin memory basically that'd be the object calculating the centre and radius
22:49.14homovulgarisfrom the three point coordinates
22:49.39brlcadhow/where does it actually describe/encode that the sphere needs to encompass those three points
22:51.45homovulgariswell a sphere passing through three points is a standard definition of a sphere and hence would be in the code
22:51.58homovulgarisas in if the sphere parametric object receives three points as inputs it constructs the sphere object by taking that assumption
22:52.27brlcadah
22:52.29brlcadyuck :)
22:52.56brlcadthat'd basically require coding in the 1/2/3/4/5/n ways for creating any primitive
22:53.13brlcadi was thinking of a generalized solution that applies to any object, primitive or otherwise
22:53.34brlcad"make this torus encompass these three points"
22:53.37homovulgarisyeah the part i like the least
22:53.37homovulgaris:)
22:54.23brlcadmm.. food for thought
22:54.31brlcadand speaking of food.. dinner time :)
22:54.54homovulgariswe can try that using constraint satisfaction.
22:54.56homovulgaris:P
22:54.56homovulgarismorning jogging time here :)
22:55.02brlcadwe can continue later if you're on ;)
22:55.34archivistinteresting read /me goes home to bed
22:56.11homovulgarisbasically my idea is we would have some primitives for generating geometry .. for generalized solution systems i'll have to devote lots of time over the year writing constraint satisfaction algorithms for various **interesting** cases.. like encompassing for example
22:56.57brlcadi really think libpg (or whatever it's called) needs to not have any lists of primitive types or specific creation criteria, it can know about different types of "parameters" (this is a point, this is a non-negative value, this is a vector, etc)
22:57.17archivistlikes "gear" mates in solidworks
22:57.30homovulgarisand these primitive geometry systems would server as a basis in terms of constraint solving by variationg of parameters..
22:57.33homovulgarisanyways.. lots of food for thought ;)
22:59.04brlcadI don't want to see this library encroach upon what librt already does -- librt manages object creation, basic validity checking, knows about each primitive that is supported etc
22:59.11homovulgaris:)
22:59.13homovulgarisi will do some more groundwork :)
23:00.02brlcadreally don't want to "replicate" that in libpg, want to overlay existance rules .. the constraint/equation solver adjusts the values on demand per what is specified
23:02.02homovulgaris:)
23:02.29homovulgarisok.. so that way i have to only concentrate on what sort of primitive definitions are already supported right.
23:02.55brlcadso if you wanted to describe a sphere with three points on the surface, you'd create a constraint akin to on_surface(point1, point2, .. pointn) and tell the solver to search for a solution
23:03.06brlcadsorta
23:03.20brlcadyou shouldn't have to know or care what the primitives/object types are
23:04.04brlcadI'm really expecting you'll need to add a routine to each primitive that describes what data values (and their types) can be modified
23:06.21brlcadand that's a really limited set of things you'd need to recognize: values, non-negative values, ranged values (e.g. valid -1 to 1), points (3 values), vectors (3 ranged values), edges (2 points), and planar surfaces (point + vector) for starters
23:07.02brlcadso each/any object can provide a named list of those recognized knobs that can be referenced
23:07.22brlcadthen your constraint/equation system goes to town with generalized solutions
23:07.56brlcadreally goes to dinner now, bbl!
23:08.38homovulgarisk :)
23:08.41homovulgarison it ;)
23:08.59homovulgaris:) am going to run 4 kms ;)
23:10.52homovulgarisand this has been a really productive day .. i would have spend another 2 days thinking arbitrary stuff :)
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01:53.25CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r31113 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_sph.c: shot routine was not setting surfno of hit
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02:29.02starseeker_brlcad:  Is there a function in libbu to return all the files in a directory?
02:29.15starseeker_Or even better, all files matching a particular suffix?
02:35.25starseeker_notes, with some dismay, that dirent.h is present only in src/other/...
02:46.33starseeker_Hmm... http://www.cs.fiu.edu/~weiss/cop4338_spr06/dirent.h
02:48.35louipcthat's supposedly part of C POSIX library
02:48.57starseeker_Does Windows XP include it?
02:49.08starseeker_I'm seeing evidence of many workarounds for the lack of it in Google
02:50.44louipcI don't know
02:51.54louipcseems people have ported it
02:52.17starseeker_looks for the license on mingw's version...
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03:05.29starseeker_looks like mingw's is public domain, if I can find it...
03:09.22starseeker_Ah ha - http://mingw.cvs.sourceforge.net/mingw/msys/packages/make/3.81/w32/compat/dirent.c?view=log
03:09.35starseeker_http://mingw.cvs.sourceforge.net/mingw/msys/packages/make/3.81/w32/include/dirent.h?view=log
03:10.27starseeker_Grr - that says it's gpl though
03:12.22starseeker_How can something so simple be so hard...  arrgh...
04:03.50MaloeranYou may have to use a couple #ifdef for Posix and win32 for these things, but it's generally simple enough
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08:11.56yukonbobstarseeker_: of course the gcc is going to be GPL'd; you may find what you're looking for in a BSD distro, though (ie: checkout NetBSD, OpenBSD, FreeBSD directly)
08:12.23yukonbobhits hay
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12:55.14``Erikhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080514/ap_on_fe_st/odd_britain_vader_raider
14:00.45``Erikbsd distros tend to come with a lot of gpl crap in 'em
14:11.28archivistwhere would bsd be without gcc
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14:24.43MaloeranAhah Erik
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14:52.57pacman87got all my grades back, all A's!
14:54.45pacman87d_rossberg: re your email, I see why the point + two normal vectors won't work
15:00.07pacman87the sketch primitive already has a point, and u/v vectors in the sketch plane.  Since the revolve needs to know what sketch it's using, I was thinking about just using the point and one of the vectors to rotate about, and specifying the rotation as an angle from -2pi to 2pi for clockwise and counterclockwise rotation about the vector from the sketch
15:14.07d_rossbergpacman87: Congratulations! that's really impressive
15:14.43d_rossbergabout the sketch: i see two problems
15:15.22d_rossbergfirst, will you keep the sketch as a seoerate element?
15:16.13d_rossbergsecond, how do you want to ray trace a revolve from a nurb or bezier?
15:16.44d_rossbergto do this you need iterative methods
15:17.01d_rossberg(like in openNURBS)
15:29.31pacman87you read my plan to transform the ray to a hyperbola, to reduce the problem to 2D, right
15:31.03d_rossbergright, but above degree 4 it's hard to compute the roots of a curve
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16:20.42andrecastelogood afternoon, folks
16:21.23andrecastelosup ``Erik, brlcad :D
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17:15.39``Erikyargh, matey
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18:36.51prasad_http://cgi.ebay.com/Airwolf-Helicopter-Replica_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ18836QQihZ014QQitemZ330234658865QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
18:37.41louipccool
18:37.44louipcdoes it fly?
18:38.12louipcaw it doesn't
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19:26.55``Erikyay, javascript 'onclick' zoom for my comic page O.o
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20:13.58``Erikheh, zoom code is a lot uglier, but more robust now :D no more of that funky behavior
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22:02.07alex_jonicia is trashing again..
22:08.41brlcadprobably just restarting
22:09.02brlcadtakes cia about a half hour to fully shut down and start back up
22:09.17alex_jonioops.. sorry.. meant that in the channel right next to this one ;)
22:09.37alex_jonibrlcad: lots of people flooding #cia that bots don't work, #commits is dead, etc
22:09.52brlcadnods
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22:13.30brlcadhugs CIA-22
22:13.35CIA-22hugs brlcad
23:21.23``Erikheh
23:42.58``Erikandre, your patch... missing terminal newlines, looks like it's doubled (two copies of diffs for one file), and you should be using the bu list stuff instead of rolling your own singly linked list
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080516

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080516

01:31.35*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=timothy@71.170.63.120)
01:31.47andrecastelo``Erik: thanks for the feedback erik.. i didn't use bu list because i had a hard time compiling it in the center point patch, so i didn't use it in neither ones.. but i'll make the proper modifications
01:42.10andrecastelo``Erik: and what do you think of the structures themselves, do you think they are useful? Also, should there be a struct light_source ? What do you think ?
02:01.31brlcadhad the same thoughts on the patch, but hadn't the time to comment/apply it yet .. :)
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03:30.14starseeker_reads slashdot and notes with dismay the direction the OLPC is taking...
03:31.07brlcadfinishes mucking with CIA for tonight
03:31.37starseeker_Read the wrong way, that sounds like international intrigue ;-)
03:32.38starseeker_Maybe we should call the channel logging bot NSA ;-)
03:32.38brlcadnah, just trying to recover from the Zen-Sources activities
03:32.45brlcadcia was way overloaded
03:32.50starseeker_ouch
03:33.24brlcadthey seem to be merging/commiting the entire linux module repo history
03:33.36starseeker_!!
03:34.27brlcadat least I'm pretty sure linville hasn't *actually* made 3000 commits within the past 24 hours.. :)
03:35.03pooliolies. they've just been busy :)
03:36.00starseeker_is liking the idea of calling the logging bot NSA, except we might really freak out some people :-)
03:36.42poolioCIA stands for culinary institute of america, no?
03:36.55starseeker_Does  for (;;)  keep looping indefinitely until it hits a break condition?
03:37.24poolioI believe so.
03:37.54starseeker_poolio:  Not usually, but if you regard culinary skill as intelligence I can see some manager somewhere suggesting a merger ;-)
03:38.01brlcadpoolio: I coined it to be "commits in action" a long time ago
03:38.23pooliobrlcad: heh. interesting how some acronyms stand for many things ;)
03:38.25brlcadbut originally, it was a pun on our favorite big brother org
03:38.33poolioah, of course.
03:38.44poolioMan, so I was looking through that brep stuff..seems like a pain in the butt format.
03:38.49poolioThat cube code is quite lengthy :P
03:38.57brlcadyep
03:39.17brlcadyou have to do a lot to maintain the solidity constraint
03:39.43brlcadthat's the way in code to make it happen with arbitrary/flexible surfaces
03:39.59brlcadit's a bit easier for some primitives, and breplicator is intentionally duplicative/verbose
03:43.09CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r31118 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_ars.c: The surfno on the hit should be set to the triangle number :-) Actually, the ars shot routine is never called, since the ars prep routine turns it into a prepped bot.
03:44.02brlcadaww
03:44.04brlcadso close
03:46.34starseeker_slowly begins to grok the interact routine in nirt...
03:47.12starseeker_and wonders why lines are limited to 255 characters...
03:48.21brlcadprobably arbitrary
03:48.27brlcadbecause some buffer is/was 255
03:48.34brlcadmagic numbers are evil
03:49.09starseeker_wonders if that will come up if we start encouraging people to play with the formatting, particularly for things like html output...
03:54.36starseeker_contemplates swapping in bu_vls instead of the 256 char fixed buffer, then decides to sleep on it...
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04:38.39brlcadhowdy pacman87
04:38.52pooliosleeps
04:42.22brlcadcya poolio
05:38.28CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31119 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/nmg_rt_segs.c: add sanity check on the a_hit hitmiss struct before dereferencing it even though the list is supposed to be checked before it gets this far with a NMG_CK_HITMISS_LIST earlier on
06:04.28CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31120 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (g_nmg.c nmg_rt_isect.c): maybe I can get it wrong two-for-two .. try to properly set the surfno for g_nmg via nmg_rt_isect() by using the face 'index'. I'll be surprised if that's actually right..
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06:22.52CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31121 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_xxx.c: provide an example for how to allocate and add a new segment if there was a hit.
06:40.13CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31122 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_xxx.c: make the example primitive actually compile so it can be kept in sync as API changes are made. remove the obsolte v4 import/export routines since new primitives shouldn't be implementing v4 support.
06:50.15CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31123 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (Makefile.am g_xxx.c): clean up comments, add g_xxx to the build so that it can be kept in sync with the API
06:57.35CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31124 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_grip.c: comment consistency cleanup
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07:17.32CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31125 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_nurb.c: add support for keeping track of a surface number for the nurbs surfaces of this primitive by simply keeping a counter over all surfaces. also make the damn curlies consistent with our style convention.
07:23.15CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31126 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_pg.c: learn from ars debachery, use the triangle we hit as the surface number
07:47.55CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31127 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_sketch.c: fix the curlie brace inconistency hell, match our style. this is the last of the prims that didn't reference a surfno (this one doesn't need to since it's not solid.
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08:35.15clock_lol
08:35.23clock_<@brlcad> section in config.log is the second line that they over-wrote the price of prostitution -- to get a seriously gay and sexually loaded version of bible
08:35.42clock_<@brlcad> and yeah, I really don't care about those whiners, their low-level f'ups are their own Linux Phone
08:36.17clock_<@brlcad> i'm surprised you have the tcl init problem -- you could do that with them as he fucked my puppy
08:37.30clock_<@brlcad> lemme see if I can find a bf
08:37.32clock_:D
08:37.41clock_<@brlcad> I don't really want the whole system in 25 minutes...
08:38.11clock_< Z80-Boy> brlcad: but then I just swapped the frames and I had a pool full of random waves which magically composed many orders of magnitude more than the person submitting the proposal -- and the point of view of both mozilla and vorbis is the audio component
08:39.18clock_<@brlcad> and even for opennurbs, to hide it as implementation detail instead of keeping the skate or inline wheels
08:39.40clock_<@brlcad> still, not sure what -fomit-frame-pointer with duct-tape.
08:39.57clock_<@brlcad> our ability to efficiently represent, visualize, and analyze geometric target 1.5A
08:40.53clock_<@brlcad> screen needs to be stored for 10000 years
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11:42.52``Erik´/det
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14:03.53brlcadclock_: wtf is all that stuff stuff supposed to be?
14:08.06CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31128 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Added comb_color command to libged.
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14:52.09clock_brlcad: that's IRC logs mangled by an AI program
14:52.33clock_brlcad: the program is just a qsort and binary search.
16:14.08CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31129 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: Added GED_DATABASE_OPEN.
16:28.03brlcadd_rossberg: thanks for the note, hope you have fun :)
16:30.18d_rossbergthanks, i'm going to the black forrest
16:30.34brlcadwow, nice
16:31.37d_rossbergi hope for good weather
16:31.56brlcadyou far from there?  few hours yes?
16:38.11d_rossberg4 hours by car
16:38.35d_rossberggermany isn't so big
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16:48.25CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31130 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Added the shader command to libged.
17:08.55CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31131 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/comb_color.c: Fixed typo.
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17:43.23CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31132 10/brlcad/trunk/ (12 files in 2 dirs): GED_CHECK_DBI_NULL has been removed. GED_DATABASE_OPEN has been replaced by GED_CHECK_DATABASE_OPEN. GED_CHECK_READ_ONLY's first parameter has changed from a struct db_i to a struct rt_wdb.
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18:49.14CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31133 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Added the edcomb command to libged.
19:12.28prasad_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmkVWuP_sO0
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20:16.54yukonbobattends a GSoC talk at BSDCan
20:21.45``Erikbastage
20:22.15``Erikif you see randi, poul, mm, or skul, tell 'em I say "ZOMG HI!!#"
20:22.29``Erikor any of the rest of the gang :D
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20:22.58yukonbobLellie Hawthorn is presenting atm
20:23.03yukonbob*Leslie
20:23.04``ErikI know randi went, d'no if juli did
20:23.11``Erikshe's a google person, not a bsd person
20:23.21yukonbobright.
20:23.36``Erikpouts and whines cuz he's not there
20:24.41yukonbob``Erik: want me to grab you some BSD horns?
20:25.28``Erikmeh *shrug*
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20:25.41yukonbobheh :)
20:25.59``ErikI'm mostly just sitting being pissed at how fucktarded my gov't is wrt foreign travel
20:26.57``ErikI mean nafta and requiring passport for travel to canuckia and mehico? O.o wtf
20:27.06yukonbob``Erik: sign-up, and then ask for something like a "letter of invitation" to show the customs officers on your way across the border...
20:27.42yukonbobah...
20:27.42``ErikI was invited to present at bsdcan a couple years ago
20:27.42``Erikbut gov't idiocity screwed the pooch
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20:30.08``Erik<bsdcan> we'll pay your flight and hotel and everything! <work> no no, we'll pay all that, ti's good, grats! just get the paperwork in 60 days before... (81 days before) *submit* <work> bounce! bounce bounce bounce (64 days before) <work> ok, end of bounce over semicolons and shit, but, oh, DAMN you didn't make the 65 day window!
20:30.22``Erik<erik> 65? I thought it was 80 <work> HAH, fuck off, boy!
20:30.49``Erikno, wait, got the numbers backwards, heh
20:30.52poolioSorry ``Erik. Didn't know that work used IRC ;)
20:30.54``Erikwas a couple years ago :)
20:31.31``Erik*grumble*
20:31.47pacman_87anyone have experience setting up 3 monitors over 2 cards?
20:31.58``Erikonly with macs, pacman
20:32.28pacman_87i have 2 on an nvidia card, and one on integrated intel
20:33.04yukonbobpacman_87: *nix, Windows, ??
20:33.09pacman_87linux
20:33.33``Erikshould be fairly easy with xinerama, no?
20:34.31pacman_87the intel port works for text-only mode, but when i start X, only the two nvidias work
20:34.34``Erik3 'driver' sections, 3 'screen' sections, and the mapping bit
20:37.19yukonbobhas had multiple displays running in 3 diff't ways over the years
20:40.01yukonbob(currently doesn't run Xinerama, but has two displays (ie: 0:0, and 0:1 -- mouse/kb works across displays, but can't drag windows, cut/paste)
20:40.11yukonbob)
20:43.29``Erikhrm, I haven't used x11 at terminal for years... been a mac running x11.app and remote X stuff for me :/
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20:52.11CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31134 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: Added GED_CHECK_COMB, GED_DB_LOOKUP, GED_DB_GET_INTERNAL and GED_DB_PUT_INTERNAL.
20:56.58CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31135 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/shader.c: Modified to use new GED macros.
22:13.31CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31136 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs):
22:13.31CIA-21BRL-CAD: remove FAST_NMG, turning on the plethora of additional run-time NMG checks
22:13.31CIA-21BRL-CAD: provided via NMG_CK_HITMISS and NMG_CK_HITMISS_LISTS. still wrap them in
22:13.31CIA-21BRL-CAD: NO_BOMBING_MACROS though so that they can still be disabled at compile-time.
22:13.32CIA-21BRL-CAD: modified NMG_CK_HITMISS_LISTS to not take the iterator and removed a slew of the
22:13.34CIA-21BRL-CAD: checks that were rather .. gratuitous.
22:32.37andrecastelohey ``Erik.. updated the patch
23:13.12``Erikaight, in the end, it's brlcad who makes the real call, i'm just trying to steer, aight?
23:21.19andrecastelo``Erik: hm ok, no problem :)
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23:36.26CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31137 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: looks like nobody is using BU_QFLSTR, so buh-bye
23:38.31CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31138 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/deprecation.txt: comment on BU_QFLSTR and NMG_CK_HITMISS_LIST changes since they've been in the headers for a long while
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080517

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080517

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03:03.40starseeker_uh... how very odd
03:04.18starseeker_when running iges-g with the -n flag on the openmoko model, I get: Segmentation fault. 0xb746817a in ?? () from /lib/libc.so.6
03:04.23starseeker_in gdb
03:07.49starseeker_iges-g -n -o phone.g gtc01-mme01_asm.igs, with the model here: http://downloads.openmoko.org/CAD/Neo1973_IGES_STEP.zip
03:08.15starseeker_the 3d drawing and 2d drawing imports work but don't raytrace
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06:47.19PrezKennedyzomg 3am and brlcad isnt here!
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15:26.18yukonbobmorning, cadheads
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17:38.35CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31139 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/oed/oed.xml: Fix incorrect object name in push command
17:48.53starseeker_hmm.  Since query_ray is an alias to nirt, wouldn't it be better to use nirt as the default Base Name in the Query Ray dialog?
18:39.15yukonbobslowday in #brlcad
19:00.42brlcadyup
19:01.00brlcadstarseeker_: yeah, query_ray should go away eventually
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19:24.27starseeker_on the other hand, query_ray is more descriptive than nirt...  
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19:46.29starseeker_brlcad:  The rset commands are dev only?  (i.e. off limits in user docs?)  If so, is there a non-rset command line way to turn the grid on and off?
19:47.26brlcadyes (and depends) and no afaik
20:27.16starseeker_nuts
21:33.24starseeker_decides to see what e17 is up to...
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080518

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080518

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13:21.07yukonbobwaves in
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15:23.30brlcadwaves back at yukonbob
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22:21.14pooliowaves in
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080519

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080519

01:48.15*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=timothy@71.170.63.120)
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04:19.22*** mode/#brlcad [+o learner] by ChanServ
04:20.15learnerwoo hoo!
04:27.14*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
04:27.14*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code, see http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code || GSoC student selections are announced! See http://code.google.com/soc/2008/brl/about.html
04:32.04learnerdamn, I forgot how good these speakers are
04:32.54learneris glad to be back on-line
04:53.14pooliowaves
04:53.30poolioWhat speakers?
04:54.25learnersome harmon kardon soundsticks
04:55.35pooliocool cool. I've got some JBL speakers that wreaked havoc at college :)
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13:20.27``Eriksaw a smart car on his way into the office today O.o
13:28.48starseekerso did I
13:28.53starseekerodd little thing
13:29.25``Erikyeah, looked weird moving that fast
13:31.40starseekerbrlcad:  the brlcad data directory is a good place to put nirt formatting scripts, but where should they live in the source tree?  The db directory is top level, but that doesn't seem quite right..
13:32.28``Erikmisc/ ? src/nirt/ ?
13:33.04starseekerI suppose a subdirectory in nirt would be simplest...
13:33.24starseekersteels himself for another autotools round
13:33.34``Erikheh, just put 'em in with the source
13:33.43starseekerew
13:33.56``Erikwe do it with docs, and it's a tiny dir already
13:34.23starseekerStill, I'd prefer to plan for the future - there may potentiall be a lot of these suckers
13:35.18starseekerneeds an autotools round anyway - they do get a new directory in share
13:35.21``Erikthen they can be moved to another dir later? svn's big one-up on cvs (imho) is the ability to move things sanely
13:35.52starseekerSure it could be done later, but I'm hoping to avoid revisiting nirt for a while once this is done ;-)
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13:39.16andrecastelogood morning everyone :)
13:39.27``Erikmorning, andre
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14:03.08andrecastelohi ``Erik , how are you doing ?
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14:45.24yukonbobmorning cadheads.
14:45.40pacman87good morning, yukonbob
14:46.25yukonbobhey pacman87. What's happening in your part of the whirled?
14:46.46pacman87trying to set up a 3-monitor display
14:47.35yukonbobstill... ugh :P
14:47.46yukonbobpacman87: what route are you trying to do?
14:47.49pacman87but intel and xinerama dont' play nice, and i can't get xrandr to work
14:48.09pacman87i've got two on an intel card, plus integrated intel (845G)
14:48.20pacman87*nvidia card, not intel
14:49.11pacman87right now the two nvidia screens are merged with twinview, and the intel is a seperate x sessions
14:49.21pacman87*session
14:51.53yukonbobpacman87: can you use the same pointer between all sessions?
14:51.58pacman87yes
14:52.18pacman87but i cant' drag windows between them
14:52.19yukonbobbut just no window dragging, or cut/paste (w/o something like x2x)
14:52.23yukonbobright
14:52.24yukonbobok
14:52.28yukonbobthat's what I use...
14:53.41yukonbobit's actually got some benefits as a side effect -- when I blit from workspace to workspace, I can start apps on one session (and leave the workspace I want it to appear on at the foreground) and move to the other session and navigate workspaces with interfering...
14:54.41pacman87someone(tm) should figure a way to do both: drag windows, and swap workspaces independently
14:54.52yukonbobx2x?
14:55.24yukonbobno -- that won't work..
14:55.56yukonbobya -- /me wonders if the X model makes it impossible
14:57.20pacman87it probably have to be with one X session, and swapping out the workspaces per display within that session
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15:30.22yukonbobpacman87: /me thinks it'd be a wm feature, where the wm would have an integrated launcher, and know the "ID" of the workspace that an app was launched on, and have a list of window titles for that app and withdraw the windows according to the same rules as regular workspace swapping...
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15:31.21*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code, see http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code || GSoC student selections are announced! See http://code.google.com/soc/2008/brl/about.html
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15:39.15*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code, see http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code || GSoC student selections are announced! See http://code.google.com/soc/2008/brl/about.html
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17:23.58CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31141 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/sfiles/ (csv-gap.nrt csv.nrt): Add missing z_dir label.
17:36.32CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31142 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/sfiles/ (csv-gap.nrt csv.nrt): Change formatting for csv to add headers for ray and results.
18:09.19CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31143 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/sfiles/ (csv-gap.nrt csv.nrt): Add quotes in csv for strings.
18:38.01CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31144 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/nirt.c: Check in local directory before checking system directory for sfile, in case local file is using conflicting name.
19:01.28CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31145 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: Added GED_CHECK_EXISTS, GED_CHECK_REGION and GED_DB_DIRADD.
19:04.25CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31146 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (comb_color.c edcomb.c item.c make.c mater.c): Mods to use the new GED macros.
19:47.20*** join/#brlcad homovulgaris (i=homovulg@gateway/tor/x-f6a97592f9beaa85)
19:51.11brlcadhowdy homovulgaris
19:51.42homovulgarishi sean :)
19:52.04homovulgaristhings going well ;) finally getting free from my university :P
19:52.40homovulgarisI thought about approaching the problem the way you said.. and yeah that is a more functional and **pure** approach ;)
19:54.49homovulgarisI'm editing the wiki to update the thoughts.. basically i believe we will have 3 major code chunks in terms of the constraint system.
19:56.02homovulgaristhe flow basically is 1. reading data from .g ( to which we add the "handle" system) so that we know what parameters to modify etc.
19:56.59homovulgaris2. from the set of parameters thus obtained we use (I) Domain Extractor to infer or define the range of values the parameters can have
19:57.07homovulgaristhis results in the production of a constraint network object
19:57.56homovulgaris3. the constraint network thus generated is used by the (II) Solver which results in the generation of a Solution Object (basically a vector/array)
19:58.37homovulgaris4. This solution object is inturn used by the (III) Geometry updater to update the geometry via librt
19:59.46homovulgarisso we have Domain Extractor+Solver+Updater
20:01.41homovulgarisIn terms of generalization I think Solver can be generalized using standard methods of approaching constraint satisfaction problems. we can always provide better and better algorithms/ methods for solving constraint networks as time progresses
20:02.09homovulgaristhe domain extractor would be specific to the context ( variables/handles and geometry objects involved)
20:02.42homovulgaristhe updater is also pretty generic.
20:06.39homovulgarisOne part which is missing is the handle generation aspect and where the code should be located.
20:07.09homovulgarisIn terms of interfacing with librt, it is basically at geometry updation
20:07.29homovulgarisand reading the geometry data
20:16.36homovulgarisDomain extractor is also the part which would specify the way equations are for example and how to interpret them once we have read all the data from .g
20:16.54homovulgarisdomain extractor is not exactly a very apt name
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22:30.57CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31147 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/chgview.c: Sean added sanity check in response to crash - more work needed
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080520

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080520

00:43.12*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.36.61)
00:43.36andrecastelogood evening folks
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01:39.15andrecastelohey ``Erik
03:36.41learnerhowdy andrecastelo
03:36.47learnerque tal?
03:37.07andrecastelolearner: hey what's up?
03:37.30learnernot much, just finished munching on some boiled peanuts, new fresh batch :)
03:37.40andrecastelolearner: i see
03:38.01andrecastelolearner: you're using translators now?? :b
03:48.20learnertanslators?
03:48.28learnerer translators?
03:48.59andrecastelo[00:36] <learner>que tal?
03:49.10andrecasteloi just thought :b
03:50.35learnerjej, ya entiendo
03:50.52learnery no :P
03:57.04learnerandrecastelo: so just about ready to go? :)
04:34.22brlcadapparently not
04:35.07pacman87hi brlcad
04:35.12brlcadhowdy pacman87
04:35.18brlcadyou ready? :)
04:35.24pacman87pretty much
04:35.28brlcadgreat
04:35.34pacman87got a nice 3 monitor display set up :)
04:35.42brlcadso got it all working eh
04:35.43pacman874480x1050
04:35.47brlcadsweet
04:35.56pacman87well, not exaclty how i want it, but close enough
04:36.42pacman87i didnt get a chance to discuss the deliverables with d_rossburg before he left
04:37.19brlcadsense *gasp* private e-mails :)
04:38.47pacman87and for patches to get to commit access, i'm planning on continuing the hyperboloid
04:39.00brlcadgreat
04:39.25pacman87though most of the patching i'd do is changes to the g_hyp.c file, which is new
04:39.30brlcadnods
04:40.47brlcadpacman87: fyi, for future reference, you can/should combine all those patch files into just one patch file
04:40.57brlcadsvn diff > your_changes.patch
04:41.07brlcadif you svn add the new file, you can even bundle in new files
04:41.42pacman87right, i was keeping them seperate so i could keep track of the files i changed, but i can do that just as easily by reading the diff :)
04:43.29brlcadyep
04:43.45brlcadand patches are usually for the patcher's convenience/use, not the submitter's ;)
04:44.37pacman87i'll pull them all and put up a unified patch on my next change
04:44.49pacman87working out exactly what tess() does
04:50.15brlcadno need to rework the patches, that's just a pedantic detail "for next time" and/or others
04:52.17pacman87well, if i'm doing a svn diff, they should all be there, right?
04:52.24brlcadyep
04:52.49brlcadyou should run the diff for patches as well as before (all) commits too
04:53.05brlcadso you can do the review before you commit
04:53.16pacman87right
04:53.21pacman87needs to svn up
04:54.01brlcadwhich you can do now
04:54.58pacman87updated to revision 31147 :)
04:55.32brlcadwasn't referring to the svn up :)
04:56.19pacman87i'm checking to make sure nothing broke on the update
04:59.37brlcadalways a good thing :)
05:00.12brlcadyou should do a quick test to make sure it's set up proper
05:08.02pacman87seems i have some svn setup to do; "svn diff | grep SOURCE | less" gives 1242 lines :(
05:11.42brlcadjust usually does "svn diff | less" .. and reads
05:12.20brlcadit's mostly a quick review of "are these the changes/files that you intended"
05:13.13brlcadcoupled with a compilation test and maybe a run-time test depending on the change, that's usually plenty reasonable
05:14.39pacman87did src/librt/debug.h get moved somewhere?
05:15.35brlcadayep
05:21.05brlcadto find out what happened to a file that was potentially deleted with svn, you can run "svn log --verbose src/librt | less" .. look for the src/librt/debug.h line and it'll tell you when the file was last modified, what the modification was, etc
05:25.36pacman87so it was removed, not moved
05:28.55brlcadyep
05:29.05brlcadit was empty, obsoleted a long long time ago
05:31.17pacman87seems there's a div by zero possibility in my rt_hyp_norm() i didn't notice the first time :\
05:32.00brlcadthere were a few minor issues like that
05:33.38pacman87is NEAR_ZERO() the usual way to handle this?
05:33.48brlcadyeah
05:34.01brlcadall floating point equality comparisons should use that
05:35.15pacman87i wasn't talking about a comparison, though
05:35.37pacman87the problem happens when z=0 (around the 'waist' of the hyperboloid)
05:36.04brlcadnods
05:36.11pacman87in that case, the normal is in the x-y plane, and i can use a different algorithm
05:37.34pacman87so would it be better to check z or what i'm dividing by?
05:46.30brlcadusually what you're diving by, or the code leading up to it
05:46.43brlcadsince it's the div-by-zero that will cause a run-time floating point exception/crash
05:46.59brlcadotherwise you'll want to check both
05:47.14brlcadyou've got a slew of potential divide-by-zero's
05:47.28brlcadwith the right parameters
05:48.16brlcade.g. if a == b == sqrt(.5)
05:48.25brlcad(.7071067..)
05:49.26pacman87which function?
05:50.00brlcadat least norm, noticed a few other potentials in shot too iirc, but I didn't look too hard
05:50.09brlcadwork in progress ;)
05:50.18brlcadyou should still apply what you have now
05:50.30brlcadand just work the mods/fixes/improvements incrementally
05:50.32pacman87it does compile :)
05:50.46brlcadthat's an important first step :)
05:50.59pacman87but compile != correctness
05:51.26brlcadsure, but it's a start and you intend to improve it right?
05:51.31pacman87of course
05:51.53brlcadbetter to see the work progress incrementally
05:52.06brlcadyou've put in a lot of good effort so far
05:53.30brlcadso if it wasn't obvious ..
05:53.46brlcadyou should just commit what you have now, and keep going
05:54.13pacman87right, now i'm trying to fix svn
05:54.26brlcadfix?
05:54.40brlcadyou said it compiles no? :)
05:54.45pacman87svn diff gives a whole lot more lines than needed
05:54.49brlcadah
05:55.03pacman87fix svn, not the code therein
05:55.17brlcadsvn revert will undo changes to files you didn't intend to modify
05:55.54brlcadit'll also undo delete, add, and other file "events"
05:57.53pacman87the full svn diff is 39189 lines, so i'll revert and reapply my patches
05:58.23brlcadhow so? what's in the diff?
05:58.50brlcad"svn status" will tell you the files that are actually modified
05:58.53pacman87~pastebin
05:58.54ibot[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste
06:01.28pacman87too big for pastebin, but here it is if you want it: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/brlcad.diff
06:02.35brlcadyep, the usual
06:03.26brlcada lot of windows line-terminated files were converted to unix line endings, usually caused by overly ambitious/invasive GUI IDE's
06:03.49brlcadsvn revert src/other && find . -name \*.dsp -exec svn revert {} \;
06:03.56brlcadthat'll take care of most of them
06:07.21brlcadagain, that's where "svn status" comes in handy, it'll list the modified files and you can revert any that aren't intentional
06:07.38pacman87that's exactly what i'm doing :)
06:08.12brlcadoh, and that should have been svn revert --recursive src/other
06:08.31pacman87yeah, i picked that up when nothing happened
06:15.17pacman87my g_hyp.c has mime-type: text/plain and eol-style: native, is this correct?
06:18.15brlcadyes
06:20.07pacman87ok, here comes the commit!
06:23.44CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31148 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs): start of code to support hyperboloid of one sheet, finished prep(), print(), shot(), norm(), uv(), and free(); still need to check for div by zero cases
06:23.54brlcadwoo hoo
06:23.59pacman87:D
06:24.14brlcadthe start of something great ;)
06:24.38pacman87thanks for all your help, and sorry to bother you with the trivial stuff
06:24.39brlcadnow you can employ the "commit early, commit often" ;)
06:24.58brlcadnp, that's what I'm here for
06:27.34pacman871:30am, bedtime
06:27.37pacman87back tomorrow
06:27.45brlcadcya!
06:27.58brlcadshould do the same, hrmph
06:32.11CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31149 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: remove register keywords from public interface
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13:21.09andrecastelogood morning everyone :}
14:22.46pacman87morning, andrecastelo
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18:03.03poolioalloo
18:19.45PrezKennedyguten tag
18:23.03poolioheh, it's already the afternoon :)
18:51.35alex_joniday's almost over over here
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21:10.00brlcadbut but .. the night is just getting started alex_joni
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22:21.25CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31150 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_hyp.c: fix div by zero in norm() for g_hyp.c
22:26.48CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31151 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_hyp.c: note to self: compile first, then check in
22:26.54brlcad:)
22:27.13pacman87missed the second arg to NEAR_ZERO()
22:42.34pooliopacman87: for divide by zero, wouldn't equality work? Or are you just afraid that really tiny values will lead to way too large results?
22:43.40pacman87the second one
22:44.06pacman87i'm using ( x/z, y/z, 1 ) as a vector, then normalizing
22:45.52pacman87except, of course, when NEAR_ZERO(z)
22:48.43poolioah fair enough
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080521

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080521

00:33.49brlcadmmm.. new bottle of scotch
00:33.52brlcaddoes a review
00:52.18CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31152 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: don't mention SMALL as it's deprecated, use SQRT_SMALL_FASTF instead
00:52.28CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31153 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_hyp.c: go even smaller, use SMALL_FASTF instead of the deprecated SMALL size
00:54.23pacman87:)
01:31.15brlcadfinishes his review :)
01:56.46*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:41.50yukonbobwaves in; hello, cadheads
03:42.09poolioAh joyous day, I still have a fscked up libtool. <3 debian.
03:45.57CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31154 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/temp.c: add a note that the routine is not thread-safe. there would minimally need to be some protections added when adding items to the auto-close list
03:53.06poolioArgh. I think I have a working .g but can't test
04:56.03CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31155 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: update comment to reflect that it does more than -all_load now
04:57.43brlcadpoolio: what do you get with: grep TCL_CPPFLAGS src/libsysv/Makefile
04:59.16poolioTCL_CPPFLAGS = -I${top_srcdir}/src/other/tcl/generic -I${top_srcdir}/src/other/tcl/unix
05:00.21brlcadthat's it?
05:00.58brlcadshould have at least a libsysv_la_CFLAGS line too
05:03.56poolioah yeah, didnt realize that was relevant:
05:04.39poolioITCL_CPPFLAGS = -I${top_srcdir}/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic
05:04.39poolioTCL_CPPFLAGS = -I${top_srcdir}/src/other/tcl/generic -I${top_srcdir}/src/other/tcl/unix
05:04.42pooliolibsysv_la_CFLAGS = ${TCL_CPPFLAGS}
05:04.49brlcadk, thats better
05:04.58pooliosorry, shouldn't self-edit if I don't know what's going on :)
05:05.16poolioThe clean build is still going...so I wouldn't worry about it for...atleast another 10 minutes
05:05.48brlcaddoes this give anything: nm src/libsysv/.libs/libsysv.a | grep Tcl
05:06.41brlcadas well as this: nm src/librt/.libs/librt.a | grep ReFree
05:09.35poolioFirst gives nothing, second gives:          U TclReFree
05:10.16poolioFYI, it just errored in the clean checkout as well.
05:10.20brlcadgrep TCL_CPP src/librt/Makefile
05:10.38poolioITCL_CPPFLAGS = -I${top_srcdir}/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic
05:10.39poolioTCL_CPPFLAGS = -I${top_srcdir}/src/other/tcl/generic -I${top_srcdir}/src/other/tcl/unix ${TCL_CPPFLAGS}
05:11.35brlcadpresumably the last TCL_CPPFLAGS there is on a third line by itself?
05:12.18poolioYes. and it's followed by a \. I'm not sure why the paste picked it up that way
05:12.30brlcadthen the next step is to recompile librt verbose so you can see the link line
05:15.19poolioDoes --enable-verbose do enough?
05:16.52brlcadnm -o src/librt/.libs/*.o | grep TclRe
05:17.19pooliosrc/librt/.libs/regionfix.o:         U TclReFree
05:17.48brlcadrm src/librt/regionfix.lo
05:18.04brlcadcd src/librt && make LIBTOOL='$(SHELL) $(top_builddir)/libtool' LIBTOOLFLAGS=""
05:18.30brlcadpastebin the output
05:19.07pooliohttp://rafb.net/p/ehk7E869.html
05:19.23poolioEww, that didn't wrap, sorry
05:20.35pooliohttp://pastebin.com/d57bfa836 is wrapped :P
05:21.33brlcader, you did the rm?
05:21.48poolioI believe, let me try again
05:21.50brlcadrm regionfix.lo regionfix.o
05:22.18poolioOopsy, I removed the .o not the .lo. sorry
05:23.02pooliobrlcad: http://pastebin.com/d615ae79c
05:25.28brlcadah, is this a vanilla configure?
05:26.25poolioI think I may have actually just thrown in a --enable-verbose a second ago, but other than that and prefix, yes
05:26.37brlcadit's acting like gcc's been configured to search system paths before build paths
05:26.51brlcadah, kay, then add --enable-all
05:28.17brlcadgive that a go and then if it still fails, we'll go the patch route
05:28.25poolioso that failed but I didnt' clean
05:28.49brlcadyou'll want to clean after an enable-all
05:29.12brlcadat least in librt
05:34.34CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31156 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: be more specific on the signature for bu_argv_from_string, it takes an array of argvs (already allocated), not just a double pointer.
05:46.07brlcadpumpkinizes for morrow
05:48.16pooliobrlcad: more errors but i must sleep. thanks for the help
05:55.16brlcadk
05:56.36CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31157 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (10 files in 6 dirs): (log message trimmed)
05:56.36CIA-21BRL-CAD: rewrite and modify bu_argv_from_string to make it more consistent with other
05:56.36CIA-21BRL-CAD: functions. the limit now corresponds to the number of non-NULL words being put
05:56.36CIA-21BRL-CAD: into the argv array, not the size of the array (whose size includes the null).
05:56.37CIA-21BRL-CAD: this requires refactoring the function to keep better track of where it is while
05:56.39CIA-21BRL-CAD: parsing including now the ability to have arbitrary amounts of whitespace
05:56.41CIA-21BRL-CAD: between words so that it will tokenize like the command line and aren't bad
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12:42.34brlcadhum
12:51.35clock_brlcad: how many MB does the BRL-CAD source approx. have?
12:51.44clock_brlcad: I wrote a program to help searching identifiers in the source
13:42.14louipcwowzas 221MB
13:42.20louipccompresses nicely
13:42.36clock_lol
13:42.45clock_I think my program would explode
13:42.57clock_it would take 884MB memory and if it wouldn't swap, then it would take like an hour and then it would work just fine ;-)
13:43.06louipccompressed down to 33MB with bz2 haha
13:43.26louipcclock_: sounds like you need to redesign your program *grin*
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13:48.14clock_louipc: lol
13:49.00clock_louipc: or implement external sort using disk files
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17:01.31``Erikclock_: seen cscope? :)
17:01.35``Erikmorning, andre
17:17.24pooliohowdy
17:32.46clock_HHV - Human Hypochondria Virus
17:51.12andrecastelohey hi ``Erik
17:55.12pooliobrlcad: so this is the current error I'm getting: http://pastebin.com/m5db25ba
18:19.24``Erikandre, where did you do the svn diff from? in src/, or top level? src/rt ? (I can't tell exactly where the header is supposed to be, or mebbe it should be in include/ ?)
18:24.25andrecastelo``Erik: i did the dif from src.. the file is in src/mlt
18:24.58``Erikhave you decided if you're going to make it as a light model or as a new rt (rtmlt)?
18:25.10andrecasteloi didn't think of putting it in include/ because it has definitions that may be exclusive to mlt
18:25.21andrecasteloas a new tool
18:25.50andrecastelowhat do you think ?
18:25.59``Erikthere're plenty of pretty specific things in include/
18:26.44``Eriklike brep.h, anim.h, the dm.h stuff... I d'no if this warrents a new directory
18:27.51andrecasteloi see
18:28.11andrecastelobut i intend to put the .c files in there.. even so it doesn't warrant a new directory ?
18:28.45``Erikprobably not? :) I imagine there won't be a LOT of C files
18:29.37andrecasteloyes, probably not a lot :)
18:29.53andrecasteloso, should i put the header in include/ and the C files in src/rt ?
18:30.37``ErikI d'no, header can probably go in either include or src/rt, might be easier to put everything in src/rt ?
18:30.45``Erikare you familiar with automake?
18:31.18andrecastelo``Erik: no, not at all
18:31.30andrecasteloi'm using windows :S
18:32.01``Erikok, I'll go ahead and move the header there and update the Makefile.am for you, do you have access to a *nix machine of any kind?
18:33.38andrecasteloyes, i can install a linux distro in another partition
18:35.01andrecastelowill you be online later?
18:35.50andrecasteloi'll have to be afk for a while, but i'll be back in two hours tops
18:37.01``Erikdoh, é isn't utf-8 friendly :D
18:37.08``Erikyeah, I'll be around
18:37.23andrecastelook, see you then :)
18:41.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31158 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/ (Makefile.am mlt_def.h):
18:41.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: Application of initial MLT patch from Andre. Changes include location of the header as well as an automake entry.
18:41.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: Closes http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1961524&group_id=105292&atid=640804
18:41.51``Erikstabs svn a few times
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20:56.56prasad_missed by 49secs
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22:49.09``Erik<-- munches ruffage
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080522

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080522

00:07.38*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@74.86.45.130)
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02:36.27CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31159 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libsysv/ (Makefile.am redata.c regex.c): don't seem to need the old regex files
02:37.13CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31160 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): few files missing from dist
02:38.45brlcadpoolio: that's a missing -lXi
02:38.54brlcadsystem library, X input library
02:39.23brlcadshould have been autodetected if it were available, but it doesn't halt if it doesn't find it (because there are many platforms that don't have it or need it)
02:41.25brlcadnotes that we don't have to be so careful with dirs any more with svn :)
02:47.06CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31161 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: narrowing down the items attainable in order to make a (source) release by the end of the week, pushing the rest back one or more iterations
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03:08.34CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31162 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: restructure the file so there is no need to declare most of the the static routines
03:08.59CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31163 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: is the undef RED still needed?
03:10.58CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31164 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: add some notes on why the ogl framebuffer isn't refreshing
03:21.56CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31165 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/mlt_def.h: should use sh/template.sh when creating new files so that the correct header/footer are created, else take more care when copying an existing file (copyright indicates when the file started, not the project)
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03:38.03CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31166 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: warn about a frequent compilation problem. if the Xi library isn't found, the build is likely going to fail (on linux).
03:38.19pooliohurray :)
03:52.35brlcadthat doesn't fix the problem, it just whines noisily about it
03:52.41brlcadyou still have to have the lib installed
03:53.02brlcadand there could still be some other reason the test fails when you do have it installed
03:54.54poolioI'm a big fan of noise. Like loud large letters when configure fails so I don't make :)
04:00.05CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31167 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: pause at all warnings in a moment of reverence. allow override of the BRLCAD_ROOT verbose warning by setting BRLCAD_ROOT_OVERRIDE in the environment.
04:00.21poolioYES!
04:00.53poolio~brlcad++
04:01.20brlcadheh
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04:27.00pooliobrlcad: brlcad compiled and installed! hurrah :P
04:34.09pooliobrlcad: Uh oh. I tried raytracing my brep and it's spamming WTF?? :P
04:35.36poolioShould I trust that if mged can't handle a brep cylinder then I've done something wrong, or is it possible it's just not working yet?
04:59.30poolioYeah so...raytracing is definitely b0rked :)
05:18.13louipcanother release coming out eh? nice
05:41.05PrezzKennedyhmm... need to get my bro back in here again
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06:01.37brlcadpoolio: i mentioned that the ray-tracing capability is *current* development efforts
06:01.48brlcadfar from functional
06:02.41brlcadso no, you should't assume anything about how it ray-traces
06:03.23brlcadyou just have to look at the topological structure, the output of 'l', maybe try the openNURBS demo visualizer
06:03.57brlcadPrezzKennedy: he didn't actually say anything last time iirc, no?
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13:47.11PrezzKennedybrlcad, yeah he did
14:52.34``Eriksighs as configure.ac forces another ugly deep cycle of auto scripts
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16:06.07CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31168 10/brlcad/trunk/ (doc/docbook/ doc/docbook/oed/ src/libged/ src/nirt/sfiles/): ignore generated Makefile and Makefile.in
16:31.35CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31169 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Added commands for comb_color, edcomb, edmater, item, make, mater, rmater, shader and wmater.
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17:43.57CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31170 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/libsysv/libsysv.vcproj: Update the list of source files.
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18:40.21CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31171 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/dirent.c: Add (very) early stages of dirent related libbu functionality. Not yet in library form, which is why it's not being added to make system just yet.
19:08.13CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31172 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/mirror.c:
19:08.13CIA-21BRL-CAD: Temporarily comment out the use of bu_vls_from_argv and bu_argv_from_string.
19:08.13CIA-21BRL-CAD: bu_vls_from_argv fails to handle arguments with white space (e.g. the argument
19:08.13CIA-21BRL-CAD: for -d might be something like {2 3 4}). So if the argument to -d was {2 3 4},
19:08.13CIA-21BRL-CAD: bu_optarg's value was 2 when it should be "2 3 4".
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21:45.27CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31173 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/ (nirt.1 nirt.c): not short dammit. -s is silent mode.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080523

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080523

00:07.35*** part/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@static-70-108-244-218.res.east.verizon.net)
01:05.04brlcadyay, indy time
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02:09.35cad38hey
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03:52.53PrezKennedybrlcad, how was indiana jones... I'm guessing that's what you went to see...
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05:00.19learnerPrezKennedy: yup
05:00.50learnerand guess who went .. someone you know that hasn't been to a theater in years! :)
05:01.57learnerit was pretty good, it's in the same spirit as the others .. there were a few scenes that were pretty cheezy/contrived, but overall I liked it
05:02.07learnernot as good as 1 or 3, but probably better than 2
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06:14.53brlcaduh oh
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07:45.09brlcadrecovers from the full disks
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12:56.44homovulgarishi all :)
12:57.09homovulgarishey Sean, u there :) ?
12:57.36homovulgarisi was planning on writing the tests for the polynomial coefficient change i had done.
12:57.59homovulgariswhat all should the test check ? 1. the limits of the root solver ? 2. comparison between pre and post patch results ? and 3. using an external solver like gsl ?
13:18.51PrezKennedypart 2 was godawful
13:19.24homovulgaris:) ?
13:20.29homovulgarishas anybody tried out opencascade ..
13:21.08homovulgaristrying to get salome running on debian unstable
13:49.41brlcadhowdy homovulgaris -- those all sound like reasonable things to test
13:50.37brlcadprobably in order of 2, 1, 3
13:51.31brlcadas well as a macro-level test, running the benchmark to make sure the results are correct (make benchmark or 'benchmark' after install)
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14:07.03pooliobrlcad: AH DISKS FULL. Oh, good work :P
14:12.00homovulgarisok ;) on it..
14:20.46brlcadpoolio: yeah, it happens every few months if left unattended
14:21.11brlcadthe machine generates *massive* amounts of log data across all services given how busy it is and what it's used for
14:22.01brlcadwhere massive is several GB/month (of text)
14:23.02brlcadwhich is all neatly compressed and managed, but still accummulates slowly .. and coupled with general multiuser system tendancy to fill to the available resources ... :)
14:23.33brlcadalas reason to get back to work on the system migration where the new servers have a lot more disk
14:23.59brlcadit does encourage/enforce me regularly cleaning up the filesystem though, so not too bad :)
14:43.13``Erikso migrate already, beeyotch :D
14:44.05``ErikI wonder if it'd be useful to do piecewise migration, like move named responsibility to th enew one, then mebbe db stuff to the new one, then mail to the new one, then web to the new one... over the course of a couple weeks or something
14:44.20``Erikinstead of one big switch
15:03.18brlcadyeah, thought about that some
15:04.08brlcadi think it's just more a matter "doing it", whether piecewise or in whole
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15:16.09PrezKennedyhomovulgaris, i meant part 2 of indiana jones... ;)
15:16.50PrezKennedybrlcad, so my mom actually went? she never goes to the movies
15:21.07brlcadyep
15:21.26brlcadhad a good time too, I think
15:21.46brlcadsaid she was probably good for another 5 years now
15:25.10clock_brlcad: by telling your mom is alive you are giving some partial information about your age, don't you see that as a problem?
15:26.01louipcmy mom's mom is still alive
15:28.07pooliobrlcad: true true, my filesystem is getting messy these days
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15:37.44brlcadclock_: actually wasn't saying anything about my mother, but yes she is still alive and no I don't see that as a problem at all (I'm quite thrilled my parents are alive, tyvm)
17:12.31pooliobrlcad: so I think I've got working sphere and cylinder. That's not to say I understand Brep at all, I just know how to write a few lines of code ;)
17:15.16pooliobrlcad: Also, how is the C++ going to factor in with the existing C librt code?
17:52.34``Eriknotes that human lifespan runs from 0 years to in excess of 120 years, and humans are physically capable of breeding as young as ~12, so a fact like ones mother being alive does *NOT* say terribly much about ones age O.o
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18:31.13brlcadpoolio: i'm (mentally) working that out now, ideally/necessarily they should be separate compilation units, yet we want them grouped together
18:31.48brlcadso I think I need to do some restructuring, move each primitive into its own subdir
18:32.24``Erikopposed to simple wrapper in src/librt++/ ?
18:32.25brlcadand then break them up .. then your routine is just the g_obj_brep.cpp file
18:33.07brlcad``Erik: he's not making an OO interface, he's implementing a single C routine for each primitive
18:33.13brlcadbut the back-end guts to the routine use C++
18:33.18brlcadvia openNURBS
18:33.37brlcadso it's really still part of librt, just implementation detail
18:33.41brlcadnot a layer on top
18:34.05``Erikah
18:34.30brlcadso instead of turning each primitive into a cpp file, I'm thinking to just break them up
18:34.55brlcadhad that in mind for a long while actually, as a way to organize the bits already there (e.g. the 30+ nurbs files, to 30+ nmg files, etc)
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19:54.30pooliobrlcad: cool cool
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20:57.29``Erikwhat? seize the carp?
21:29.38CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31174 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/rt/opt.c src/rt/rtcheck.1 src/rt/viewcheck.c): (log message trimmed)
21:29.38CIA-21BRL-CAD: bob added this option way back in 2005 ( 15 Aug 2005 21:43:07 to be exact ) but
21:29.38CIA-21BRL-CAD: it was never documented. this option makes rtcheck write the plot file data in
21:29.38CIA-21BRL-CAD: text format instead of the default binary format. binary should probably not be
21:29.41CIA-21BRL-CAD: the default, so presumably this was a first step towards that direction; at
21:29.43CIA-21BRL-CAD: least it lets you get text instead of binary so you can avoid the tty warning
21:29.45CIA-21BRL-CAD: about binary output. reduce globals by one, the code is updated to reuse the
22:04.13starseeker_``Erik:  That's not how I fish for carp...
22:06.37starseeker_uses pole and bait rather than seizing with hands...
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22:08.06``Erikyeah, you're a wuss
22:08.06``Erik:D
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22:48.19CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31175 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: it really just causes too much confusion. z-clipping should be off by default.
23:22.36``Erikhttp://www.explosm.net/comics/1286/
23:28.28starseeker_brlcad:  What was that trick you used yesterday to capture the nirt command used by mged?
23:28.45starseeker_or dump it to a file rather
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23:35.25brlcadnirt > some_file
23:35.49brlcadooh
23:35.54brlcadsaveview
23:36.34brlcadsaves the view .. view scripts just happen to also be render scripts (since they have all the necessary view information)
23:37.27brlcadnotes that nirt only needs a -o option to be compatible with the saveview script interface .. someone(tm) should add that
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080524

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080524

00:20.56starseeker_output to pix file?
00:26.56starseeker_Given that's nonsensical in command line nirt, should it just be a "throwaway" option?
00:27.15starseeker_or did you want nirt to optionally generate an mged style wireframe as a pix file?
00:28.39starseeker_comes to the belated realization he has no idea how to output a wireframe as a .pix file or even if it can be done...
00:34.26starseeker_or we could teach saveview to omit the -o option when nirt is specified...
00:54.02brlcadi was thinking more that with -o the nirt output or other logging output would go to that file instead of stdout/stderr/bu_log .. the default ".pix" would of course need to change to something more generic (maybe .log)
01:16.10CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31176 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: (log message trimmed)
01:16.10CIA-21BRL-CAD: this has come up so many times over the year, it needs to be documented so it
01:16.10CIA-21BRL-CAD: can be eventually worked on. develop a low-level tool for investigating,
01:16.10CIA-21BRL-CAD: reporting statistics on, and repairing geometry database files. the tool should
01:16.10CIA-21BRL-CAD: nominally perform big/little endian conversions, report number and types of
01:16.12CIA-21BRL-CAD: objects, allow deletion/undeletion/hiding/unhiding, provide some general means
01:16.14CIA-21BRL-CAD: to manipulate the packed and unpacked .g file data for performing low-level
02:30.01starseeker_brlcad:  I haven't looked at saveview yet, but would it be hard to conditionalize the suffix based on the command supplied?  The command is already one of the arguments to saveview - wouldn't it be a quick comparison?
02:30.20starseeker_.log for nirt, .pix for rt, etc...
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05:15.54brlcadstarseeker_: sure, probably just if cmd == "rt" then ".pix" else ".log"
05:16.25brlcador maybe .out or something generic
05:18.20brlcadsince there are a variety of formats .. rt and rtedge are .pix; rtweight is text; rtcheck is binary or ascii plot data and log output; nirt default is text/log output; etc
05:19.04brlcadi suppose it could have knowledge of all those and behave accordingly then defaulting to something generic
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05:30.20*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code, see http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code || GSoC student selections are announced! See http://code.google.com/soc/2008/brl/about.html
06:47.47brlcadstarseeker_: aha!
06:49.22brlcadmy recollection was right .. nirt did/does (used to) take commands via -e ... you inadvertently broke that behavior with r31097
06:50.05brlcadi.e. before that revision, you could run something like: nirt -e "xyz 0 0 1000; dir 0 0 -1; s; q" db/moss.g all.g
06:51.59brlcad-e was interpreted as a script; -f reads a file, hence the type parameter to enqueue_script
06:59.03CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31177 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: nirt -e seems to have been busted with r31097
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07:29.31hippieindamakin8hey guys
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07:35.46brlcadhowdy hippieindamakin8 !
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08:37.51CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31178 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: rather belated thanks to Daniel for finding/fixing the bu_ptbl memory leak that was occuring during prep where delete_regs wasn't getting freed from an rtip. this change was made in 28 Oct 2006 14:56:23 as CVS rev 14.17
08:54.54hippieindamakin8hey brlcad wassup
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15:01.19starseeker_brlcad:  Ah, crud - sorry about that!
15:01.34starseeker_I'll look into it ASAP
15:23.45starseeker_I don't see how that could have done it - that rev was just to fix a missing break and change the displayed options - it must be elsewhere
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15:38.23``Erikwell, poo, I went through all the code monkeys material on youtube
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16:57.11brlcadstarseeker_: it basically just did a strcpy before of the script -- now, though, you have it inside the if clause
16:58.19brlcadi.e. look at the inputs .. the data is in 'string' .. follow where string is put into str for both cases of type == READING_FILE and != READING_FILE
16:58.53brlcadmore paper references if you don't have them in the bib: http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en&q=paint+the+night+brl-cad&btnG=Search  (three top results)
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17:09.43CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31179 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/ (main.c opt.c): move output_is_binary to opt so that remrt can resolve the reference
17:10.29iraytracewhat's the appropriate way of checking out "head" these days?  The SVN link on SF gets all the repositories (jbrlcad, etc)
17:10.39brlcad~cadsvn
17:10.40ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
17:11.26iraytracethx
17:56.48``Erikchecks out "cinelerra"
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18:05.16``ErikI hope it's not terribly linux specific :/
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20:03.30louipccinderella is hot
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20:05.16*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code, see http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code || GSoC student selections are announced! See http://code.google.com/soc/2008/brl/about.html
20:17.52yukonbobafternoon, cadheads.
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20:55.45yukonbobhey pacman87
21:19.54pacman87hey yukonbob
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080525

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080525

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13:26.06*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code, see http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code || GSoC student selections are announced! See http://code.google.com/soc/2008/brl/about.html
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17:28.39d_rossbergbrlcad, pacman87: i'll be away on business the next 2-3 days
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20:34.17brlcadokie dokies
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080526

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080526

00:30.11*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@210.212.55.3)
02:36.16yukonbobevening, cadheads
02:36.31brlcadhowdy yukonbob
02:36.41yukonbobwhat's shaking, online buddy?
02:37.03brlcadoh, finally getting back to a vision document I've been working on
02:37.19yukonbobheh -- drop peyote, hit wordprocessor?
02:37.36brlcadsummarizes what we do, what we want, the path forward ;)
02:37.58brlcadhigh-level hand-waving, but useful for consolidated direction
02:38.14yukonbobs/useful/necessary/
02:38.21brlcadheh, true
02:38.49yukonbobplays a bit with plplot...
02:40.00brlcadtries hard to not be "too wordy" while still being precise and concise with the intent
02:40.47brlcadi so don't enjoy writing, takes more time than coding to do well :)
02:41.32yukonbob:)
02:47.04brlcadeek
02:47.37brlcadsuddenly realizes that he's very hungry, not having eaten anything in about 8 hours
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03:00.10yukonbobhad that feeling the other day, after getting light-headed (s/8h/40h/) Orangina to the rescue for a temp. fix.
03:44.35brlcadsees the light at the end of the tunnel
03:46.52Twingywonders what brlcad is doing in a tunnel
03:47.22brlcadI'm apparently going towards the light ..
03:47.31Twingyputs bug zapper at end of tunnel
03:48.15brlcadeats the roasted bugs for protein
03:48.40Twingyfinishes writing arm7 asm to buffer pixel data from toshiba tcm8230md camera
03:54.12pooliowaves
03:55.10brlcadwaves back
03:55.55pooliobrlcad: so I'm sorry I didn't get started last week...my gramps is in the hospital, but I'm set and ready to go for next week
03:56.32pooliobrlcad: so I should just start going down the primitives list? :)
03:58.48brlcadyeah, that sounds like a plan
03:59.37brlcada few of them already implement a *_nurb() callback that is very close if not identical to what you will likely be implementing, just not using the right data structure (doesn't use openNURBS)
04:01.33brlcadthe most important primitives are ell/sph, tgc, and the arbs if you're looking for somewhere to start
04:02.05brlcadarbs should be the easiest ..
04:02.29pooliok
04:19.45pooliobrlcad: for arbs, should I break it down case by case for the diff. arbs or try to come up with one algo to handle them all?
04:21.43brlcadup to you
04:22.11brlcadthe solution for arbn might solve the arb[4-8]
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19:24.36``Erikgets the urge to cook
22:12.34brlcadthinks ``Erik spelled 'code' wrong
22:20.42CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31180 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/nirt.c: -e option works again, but supplying -f AFTER -e ignores the -f flag - need to find out why. Works if -f is used before -e.
22:24.43starseeker_Oh, I see - it's doing the flags "in order" and executing the -e before the -f flag is supplied
22:25.06starseeker_thinks about it and thinks perhaps this is intended behavior...
22:26.18CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31181 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/nirt.c: Initialization happens regardless, so only need it in one place - before if.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080527

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080527

00:21.44``Erikheh, no, it was cook, sorry :) baking, etc
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01:03.41andrecastelogood evening everyone :)
01:07.17pacman87hi andrecastelo
01:07.23andrecastelohey hi pacman87
01:47.21brlcadhowdy guys
01:48.03CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31182 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: nirt -e works once again
02:02.28CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31183 10/brlcad/trunk/ (TODO src/libfb/if_ogl.c): better to be slow and visible than vast without a refresh. haven't found why the buffer isn't refreshing yet, but it at least restores functionality. maybe bob can track it down...
02:06.57CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31184 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: annotate that bob added a -l option to the dbfindtree command so that it'll return the paths in a list instead of the default pretty-print tree. useful for scripting, presumably something dave loman needed.
02:32.40starseeker_starts having fun stringing -f and -e flags in sequence onto a nirt command...
02:36.09yukonbobwaves in; "Hello, cadheads"
03:55.10*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code! The fun begins this week! (May 26th)
04:05.00brlcadthoughts and comments welcome:  http://brlcad.org/~sean/BRL-CAD%20Passions.pdf
04:05.56brlcadhaven't even proofed it once yet, so I'm looking for big picture feedback, not spelling/comma/grammar tweaks
04:08.12brlcadthe intent is global audience, high-level mission/vision/goals with some minimal background information
04:23.25starseeker_how big will the display holding this be?
04:23.33starseeker_or rather, how large a poster is it?
04:24.06starseeker_if it's intended to be read from a distance, that's a lot of text
04:26.20starseeker_Content wise, I like it
04:26.48starseeker_gets the sense that about 10 slides of a presentation are living on one page ;-)
04:36.14yukonbobbrlcad: it's sexy looking. Nice work.
04:36.52yukonbobOff top of head, the bottom/middle dark block might best be represented with bullets. It reads a bit "wordy" to me
04:36.55yukonbob.
04:39.11yukonbobwaves to starseeker_
04:46.01brlcadit's not for poster/presentation perse -- it's just an informative information sheet
04:46.05starseeker_waves back
04:46.17starseeker_Ah - cool
04:46.56brlcadyukonbob: hm, why do you say that?  maybe too much jumping out?
04:47.17starseeker_is brain dead atm - I'll see if I can some up with something coherent tomorrow...
04:47.18brlcadthe intent there is to answer the "what is brl-cad" question
04:47.40brlcadno comment is a perfectly acceptible comment too :)
04:47.42yukonbobit just reads really long -- I think it'd be more digestible if the pieces were bite-sized.
04:47.53yukonbobJust that one block, though.
04:48.12yukonbob(although, the top right quote is pretty long-winded too... but what can you do with a quote ;)
04:48.18brlcadcare to suggest something more condensed? :)
04:48.37brlcadyeah, the quotes are what they are for the most part
04:48.47brlcadthey don't really read well piece-wise
04:49.03brlcadthe right one already has a huge chunk cut out, hence the ellipses
04:49.06yukonbobs/,/->/, basically -- I think I might pick a good looking bullet and make a bulleted list of the points that make that long sentence.
04:49.38yukonbob(where "->" == my ascii bullet)
05:08.20brlcadyukonbob: what if it were simply smaller and/or without the fontification?
05:09.04brlcadi'm not sure a bullet list would really look good with the given layout seeing as there's a bulleted list right before it
05:09.26brlcadright now there's also a direct correllation -- four bullets, four sections
05:10.00brlcadcould de-emphasize the what is brl-cad, or go for a much shorter version
05:10.01yukonbobbrlcad: re: smaller a/o fontification -- perhaps
05:10.25yukonbobor you could simplify the whole works: What is BRL-CAD?
05:10.31yukonbob**AWESOME**
05:10.48brlcaduse something like the 80 char version instead of that 512 char version
05:10.49yukonbob(if you don't believe me, you suck)
05:10.59brlcadhehe
05:11.10brlcadI truely did consider getting all punchy in it
05:11.11yukonboblaughs at self...
05:11.30yukonbobit's a _really_ tricky project to capture on a placard
05:11.46yukonbobgets a glass of OJ, too
05:11.56yukonbobanybody want anything while I'm up?
05:12.40brlcaddebates caffeinating self
05:15.13yukonbobenjoys a square of 70% cocoa chocolate, passes one to brlcad as a cheap caffeine sub., and/or tasty treat
05:18.14yukonbobalso has a vision of the 4 bullets in top-middle square being "pointing fingers", but that's a typographical matter.
05:18.25yukonbobwould seem to fit the style
05:23.00brlcadi'll play with that idea some
05:24.22yukonbobjust thinks that the current bullets don't do the nice underlines (ie: "<------------>", and the "bow-tie" under "BRL-C" at bottom) justice.
05:24.30yukonbob*BRL-CAD
05:28.13brlcadthe <--> was a total afterthought .. it was just a line at first ;) .. and looked better with arrows than without
05:28.52brlcadthe main point is actually the one top-front-center
05:31.34yukonbob-_.:Our PassioN:._- ?
05:34.04PrezKennedyyou guys deserve 20% raises for the level of dedication
05:36.04brlcadyukonbob: better suggestion? :)
05:37.19brlcadPrezKennedy: gotta just find what you absolutely love doing, and then find someone willing to pay you to do it ;)
05:37.36brlcadabsolutely loves working on brl-cad
05:39.07PrezKennedyim pretty happy with what im doing... just not something i wanna do for too much longer...
05:40.19brlcadthat's just contentment, gotta find your passion
05:41.23*** join/#brlcad PrezzKennedy (i=Matthew@74.86.45.130)
05:41.39PrezzKennedysweet
05:43.26yukonbobbrlcad: suggestions for what?
05:44.18yukonbobwas clarifying what you meant when you said "the main point is actually..." -- what you meant by "main point".
05:45.32yukonboblikes the poster -- it's good looking, and informative; /me humbly submits those two points as "improvements" (bullets->"pointing fingers", and less-wordy bottom-center, somehow)
05:46.17yukonbobsmells the rain coming down -- apropos, I guess, since he's got the 'Stacey Earle' last.fm station on...
05:46.18brlcadyukonbob: ahh, yeah, that bit
05:47.31yukonboblaughs at PrezzKennedy's entrance... "sweet"
05:47.34yukonbobKramer-like
05:52.22PrezzKennedynite y'all
05:54.20yukonbobciao PrezzKennedy
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12:33.26andrecastelohey good morning everyone
12:48.52``Eriksalutations
12:52.06``Erikponders buying a new ibook
13:08.11PrezzzKennedysnap out of it!
13:09.42``Erikheh
13:10.21``ErikI have a program I want to run that only works on mac or windows, and I'm not fucktarded enough to tolerate a windows machine, so it comes down to "which mac" :D
13:18.26PrezzzKennedyi tolerate the windows machine because the mac is overpriced and mostly useless without Parallels
13:20.10alex_joni``Erik: get the Air-version
13:20.12``Erikheh, useless how?
13:20.33alex_jonino vista crap on it
13:20.39``Erikand the last ibook I bought was $700, which doesn't strike me as overpriced
13:21.03alex_joni``Erik: eeePc? or OLPC?
13:21.06``Erikthe current ibook I'm looking at is 1300, which is cheaper than a windows laptop with the same features
13:21.11alex_joniway lower than half that :)
13:21.21``Erikneeds to run world of warcraft, alex_joni  :(
13:21.28PrezzzKennedydoes it have a 17" screen?
13:21.40alex_joni``Erik: there's a version you can play with cards
13:21.44``Erikthe one I'm looking at is 13", not a macbook pro
13:22.15PrezzzKennedyi couldnt find a macbook pro with a 17" screen that wasnt less than like $2000
13:22.47``Erikthe 17" is nice as a "portable" class, but too big for a laptop type, I really liked the old 12" ibook more than the 15 and 17 macbooks as far as size
13:23.05PrezzzKennedymy laptop is my only computer
13:23.07``Erikyou can use a 12" on a plane comfortably
13:23.29``Erik<-- keeps servers on his lowest floor, sits at laptops exclusively at home
13:23.52PrezzzKennedyplays games that are new...
13:24.03``Erik<-- thinking a 13" ibook 2.4gz, 2g ram, 160g hdd, dvd burner, plus a keyboard, razer pro mouse and a 20" wide screen lcd
13:24.19``Erikthat should keep me happy for several years
13:24.47``ErikI prefer to play games that are fun :> I still fire up 'vice' to play games once in a while
13:27.57PrezzzKennedythe new games are quite fun... youll see in 4 years when they finally get ported... :P
13:29.00``Erikheh, ported to what, mac? or linux? seems mac ports come out fast, and with apples sales screaming up and microsofts down, the critical mass for exclusion seems to be disappearing *shrug*
13:29.16``ErikI don't play games too much (better things to do), but I enjoy the few I do play...
13:29.29PrezzzKennedywhen youre at the bottom the only place to go is up...
13:29.39``Erikactually, for games, bsd is the bottom
13:29.46``Erikactually, no
13:29.51``ErikI bet beos is lower
13:29.52``Erik:)
13:30.22``Erikthinks the boy has been drinking the ms gametard koolaid too long :)
13:31.27PrezzzKennedyyou're buying from a company that seriously charges $700 for 4GB of RAM and you're telling me im drinking kool-aid?
13:31.48``Erikheh, ya don't buy the memory from apple, just the base machine
13:32.13``Erikthen ya slap macports on it, shove your own third party memory in, light up the nfs mounts, and go to town
13:33.08PrezzzKennedywhat's macports?
13:33.34``Erikpackage management system, unix style
13:34.22``Eriksimilar in concept to the bsd ports collection, gentoos portage, debian/ubuntu apt
13:34.29PrezzzKennedygotcha
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13:35.22``Erikanyways, mac prices are on par with dell, gateway, compaq, etc if you don't approach things too naïvely, in my experience
13:36.28``Eriklike... not exploring third party ram (which is the big sticker from apple, they prey on companies with graphic weenies who need macs, lots of ram, and have no clue how to take the side panel off a mac pro)
13:40.08``Erikbut they don't play ALL the latest games, just most *shrug* so whatever makes ya happy
13:40.24MaloeranFrom what I have seen, Apple laptops sure are more expensive than Compaq and friends
13:40.43``Erikpets his $700 ibook O.o
13:40.47PrezzzKennedythe 17" MacBook Pro is twice what I paid for my 17" Pavilion
13:41.01PrezzzKennedyits not twice as nice
13:41.07MaloeranEheh
13:42.30``Erikmebbe the winders ones have come down in price
13:42.32``Erikspecs one
13:43.30PrezzzKennedythe processor is a bit better and i think it has an LED screen... but it has the same video card and less memory
13:43.32Maloeranrecently brought back 5 laptops from Canada to friends in Venezuela, computers cost 2.5x times as much there
13:44.04MaloeranI would have brought them from Miami but the Best Buy guy said there was a limit of one computer per customer per day for some reason
13:44.24PrezzzKennedyouch
13:44.55MaloeranFairly good laptops for ~700$ too
13:45.35``Erikhrm, I'm crunching on dell trying to find a laptop with the same cpu performance as the crappy little ibook, found one much slower at $1624
13:46.03PrezzzKennedywhich model?
13:46.15``Erikxps m1330 vs ibook 2.4
13:46.55``Erikok, I found 3 with the same speed, but they all only come in 17"
13:46.59MaloeranGot a link handy for specs on ibook 2.4? Googling
13:47.02``Erikare are over 2k
13:47.11``Eriksec
13:47.39``Erikhttp://www.apple.com/macbook/specs.html
13:47.57``Erikoh, they call them macbook now instead of ibook... (used to be ibook and powerbook, now it's macbook and macbook pro)
13:48.09``ErikI'm using old fogey terms :(
13:48.22Axman6very old
13:48.36``Erikshakes his cane at axman6
13:48.37MaloeranAh, that explains why I would not find anything :)
13:49.08MaloeranI don't know, seems fairly ordinary to me
13:50.01Axman6they're good machines
13:50.17MaloeranThe laptops I brought for 700$ seem about as good, except with screens of 15.4"
13:50.29Axman6macbook pro's are even better. they're fantasitc. i've got a few friends wi8th dells craving a MBP
13:51.13``Erikbut do they have the ability to run WoW as well as a full unix suite? :) do they come with video and music editing software that linux cannot compete with yet? :D
13:51.32Axman6the dells or the MBP?
13:51.36``Erikwas desperately looking for good open source video editing software, isn't finding any :/
13:51.48``Erikmal's laptops
13:51.55Axman6because OS X is unix, with a native version of WoW... and it comes withiMovie for free ;)
13:52.07``Erikand garage band
13:52.12Axman6indeed
13:52.41MaloeranAh, so MBPs com with a bunch of good and non-unix software, I see
13:52.53``Erikcomes with both, mal
13:52.57Axman6not free, but iWork dominates office in many ways too. nothing out there beats Keynote
13:52.59MaloeranThe hardware is not worth the price but I can not comment on the software
13:53.05``ErikI do like keynote
13:53.13poolio``Erik: go for the macbook :) Just keep it off your lap
13:53.18Axman6the hardware is worth the price imo, it's just so high quality
13:53.26Axman6there's more than specs to look at
13:53.50MaloeranMore than the specs?... :)
13:53.52``Erikheh, I usually put the laptop on my kitchen table... huge work area with a high precision mouse, picking the thing up is a thing of the past :D
13:53.54Axman6much more
13:54.21``Erikyeah, the hardware is solid and if it isn't, apple is usually really good about 'just making things right'
13:54.23Axman6there's so much attention to detail
13:54.24MaloeranThere are 14" laptops for 1000$ with better processors, 3 gb of ram, a real video chip
13:54.26PrezzzKennedyoh yeah i crave a macbook pro too
13:54.32PrezzzKennedyits just twice as expensive as im willing to pay
13:54.54Axman6PrezzzKennedy: s'what paents are for... >_>
13:54.56Axman6heh
13:55.00Axman6parents*
13:55.16PrezzzKennedy``Erik knows my dad I believe...
13:55.36``ErikI like my mbp, but it is a bit pricey and more than I need for the near future
13:56.06``ErikPrezzzKennedy's dad only bought a home computer fairly recently, despite working with them for many years before O.o he's too busy buying movies heh
13:56.07Axman6mine was pretty pricy, especially considering you can now get a faster one, for $700 cheaper -_-
13:56.18``ErikI think his goal is to completely pack a whole room with dvd's
13:56.31MaloeranMmhm :)
13:57.45``Erik$1299 vs $1999 for... an nvidia video and 2" display... I'll go with the cheap one, it'll do :)
13:58.04Axman6and IMO, OS X is an excellent OS. i haven't managed to find an thing i needed to do that i couldn't on here
13:58.04poolio``Erik: If you don't need the speed you can get a last-gen macbook for cheap
13:58.37MaloeranJust looking at the hardware, you can find better for 800-1000$. Of course, if you really wan the software and don't mind the extra cost...
13:58.40``Erikhrm, is there an online place for those? that's how I got my ibook for 700, but I had to go to the store and ask if they had any left
13:58.42PrezzzKennedymy dad is using my brothers old laptop
13:58.52PrezzzKennedywhich is my old laptop... 2 iterations back
13:59.04PrezzzKennedyand my mom is using my old PC
13:59.34Axman6my mum's using our old 400MHz G3. runs Tiger just fine
13:59.58``Erik<-- cheap... not quite kermit cheap, but cheap... bought his last laptop in '03, only computer since was the cheap linux minitower from walmart, running fbsd right now... :)
14:00.27PrezzzKennedymy mom was using a celeron 450 mhz
14:00.39``Erikand the machine I'm running irc on, a friend was gonna throw it out, so I took it... pheer the p2 650mhz 128gb ram might!
14:00.54andrecastelohey everyone, sorry to bother, but i'm having some issues compiling the code in windows (i was able to compile it before) - http://rafb.net/p/LiVNR651.html
14:01.10Axman6``Erik: pfft, that's nothing
14:01.11Maloeranscratches his head thinking how much he paid for his dual-quad-clovertown
14:01.24PrezzzKennedyran windows 95 for like 10 years
14:02.02``Erikandre: did you try to clean and re-build?
14:02.10Axman6'my router's a 133MHz, 32MB pentium with a 1GB HDD. running OpenBSD 4.2 (because i'm too lasy to uograde)
14:02.27andrecastelo``Erik: ok, cleaning now
14:02.31``Erikoh, I bet the new hyp.c wasn't added to your build
14:02.44PrezzzKennedymy router is a 233Mhz 16MB Asus running OpenWRT
14:02.45``Erikg_hyp.c
14:03.03``Erikand probably some new .c files in libged that haven't been added
14:03.09andrecastelooh
14:03.17Axman6PrezzzKennedy: waaayyy too many MHz :P
14:03.21andrecasteloi'll check the logs
14:03.37PrezzzKennedyit was an $80 router :)
14:03.37``Erikdid you make a miscwin32-msvc9\ copy?
14:03.57andrecasteloyeah, used the latest win32-msvc8
14:04.14Axman6mine was a $0 router :)
14:04.22Axman6and i get to use pf, whooo
14:04.27``Erikyou should make a patch to add the new build dir so other people with msvc9 can benefit :)
14:04.45``Erikonce ya get the build working, that is
14:05.16andrecastelook, will do that :)
14:06.40Axman6anyway, goodnight all
14:06.46``Eriknight, axman
14:08.00``Erikandre: when .c files are added, we update the Makefile.am to reflect that, but we don't use msvc, so you're on your own to spot new .c files and add them... and since you're the only msvc9 user here, you're now the build maintainer for msvc9 :D congrats :>
14:08.14PrezzzKennedynight Axman6
14:09.07andrecastelo``Erik: the msvc9 converts from msvc8 format to the new one, so basically all i do is watch for modifications in the msvc8 build and update the msvc9..
14:09.47andrecastelo``Erik: one thing though - the latest .c additions to libged were all added to the msvc8 project, which i converted..
14:11.38``Erikhrm, does '__imp__' mean imported? it might be upset about librt not being build correctly?
14:12.03``Erikrt_ and nmg_ all live in librt
14:12.38andrecasteloi guess if rt is fixed, libged will be built correctly
14:13.07andrecastelobut that's just a guess, the problem might be there too
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14:14.00CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31185 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/librt/librt.vcproj: let's see what we can break by adding g_hyp.c by hand...
14:15.57andrecastelo``Erik: mmk, i'll try breaking stuff :)
14:16.49CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31186 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: add a couple directories to the layout information
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15:05.45andrecastelo``Erik: got this.. http://rafb.net/p/pVfOmB11.html
15:09.58andrecastelo``Erik: ok, managed to fix and librt built correctly
15:13.46andrecastelo``Erik: http://rafb.net/p/PK8mUw86.html .. is everything correct?
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15:59.57CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31187 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_hyp.c: Moved variable declarations to beginning of their respective code blocks.
18:33.13pooliobrlcad: I just read through doc/brep.txt ...yikes
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18:42.19CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31188 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_anim.c: Added better checking of argc/argv to db_parse_1anim().
18:57.34``Erikheh, looks like bob beat ya to it, andre :D but yes, the code looks correct to me from a casual glance
18:58.00``Erikthe one thing I'd be concerned about is the shadow declaration of segp that's being removed, I'd have to look closer to see if it's an issue
18:58.09``Erikbasically, um,
18:59.23``Erikint i = 42; { int i = 13; printf ("%d\n", i); } printf("%d\n", i);
18:59.35``Erikwill print "13\n42"
18:59.47poolio\n :)
19:00.22``Erik<-- writes "smack ben upside the head" on a postit note and sticks it to his monitor
19:00.26``Erikwhen ya getting here again? :D
19:01.08poolioI dunno, I'm set up and ready to go whenever brlcad feels the urge to drag me in :) I'm in no rush to waste that much gas
19:06.55pooliobrlcad: so, would you like me to come in this weke or is this the week you're away?
19:23.25PrezKennedyyou can see their awesome WWIII building
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19:34.15``Erikmeditates, levitates and waits
19:34.51poolioPrezKennedy: WWIII?
19:35.06``Erikis that nintendos next console?
19:35.35poolioyuk yuk.
19:35.52PrezKennedyno its those huts you guys work in
19:36.19PrezKennedyunless those have since blown away...
19:36.39``Erikin the words of the wise sage wooldoor sockbat... WWEEEEEEE
19:36.59``Erikhey, they're still standing, it's been a while since anyone has sneezed
19:41.46``Erikwhat a name, "semen semenov"
19:53.18brlcadpoolio: wow.. i'd completely forgotten about brep.txt .....
19:53.45brlcadnext week is the week i'm away
19:54.10brlcadi'll certainly be on-line though, that should be a great week of coding
19:54.17brlcadconferences are usually great for coding
19:54.42``Erikwhich conf is it?
19:59.08pooliobrlcad: so would you like me to come up this week or can I continue being a bum at home :)
19:59.27brlcad``Erik: solid modeling
20:00.12brlcadtechnically ACM SPM and IEEE SMI joint conf., real small conference but directly relevant
20:00.18brlcadonly in the US every couple years
20:02.01poolioWhere is it?
20:03.17brlcadup in NY this year
20:07.17poolioAh, that's no fun. They should hold it in some place exotic
20:08.57``Erikwasn't it in nyc like two years ago?
20:10.07brlcadboston
20:10.12*** join/#brlcad cazpa (n=cazpa@host81-159-136-48.range81-159.btcentralplus.com)
20:10.14brlcadat mit
20:10.28``Erikoh, I thought siggraph was in boston, guess they both were *shrug* :)
20:10.30brlcadbefore that it was in japan, then before that in england
20:10.41brlcad*those* I shoulda submitted a paper!
20:10.44cazpaHello
20:10.50brlcadhowdy cazpa
20:10.53cazpanot to bad
20:11.28cazpajust saw what brl-cad
20:11.32cazpaabout to give it a try
20:11.34cazpa:D
20:11.46brlcadpoolio: they do .. but getting oconus travel approved is hell
20:12.09brlcadhave to have a damn good reason like presenting a good paper
20:12.21brlcadcazpa: excellent, have fun
20:12.30brlcadthere are tutorials on the website, consider them required reading
20:12.32cazpawill do
20:12.37cazpai will do
20:12.42cazpaim new to solid moderling
20:12.46brlcadbig learning curve, but big payoff as you learn
20:13.12brlcadlast year solid modeling was in beijing
20:13.13cazpabut i am a mechanical engineer
20:14.26cazpaso hello all
20:17.37cazpais brl hard to use?
20:22.35brlcadit's hard to learn
20:22.47brlcadbut otherwise, no, it's not really hard to use for many purposes
20:23.04brlcad(some things are *really* easy, some are hard, it's a big package)
20:23.49cazpastarts to read the documents
20:24.13cazpaim only looking to use it for simple solid moderling
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20:29.55cadguyhttp://www.brlcad.org doesn't go anyplace useful anymore
20:30.10cadguy~cadsrc
20:34.17PrezKennedydo it without the www
20:38.07cadguyyes.  I just thought it ought to work *with* the www as well.
20:38.18brlcadah, responder wasn't set up after migration -- should be better now
20:39.52``Erikprefix? we don' need no stinkin' prefix
20:43.54CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31189 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (Makefile.am dirent.c uce-dirent.h): Use uce-dirent to provide cross platform dirent functionality.
20:44.18CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31190 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: Add dirent.c functions to bu.h
20:45.10CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31191 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/ (nirt.c nirt.h): Add preliminary code in support of -L option for listing available report formats.
20:45.23``Eriknooooooo
20:45.31``Erikwatches everything rebuild because bu.h got mucked with
20:50.00CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31192 10/brlcad/trunk/ (10 files in 6 dirs): Added arced to libged.
20:56.36andrecastelohey good evening everyone
20:57.44``Erikwb, andre
20:57.48``Erikand congrats!
20:58.01andrecastelohehehe thanks
20:58.03andrecastelobut congrats on what ?
20:58.09``Erikgot a few minutes? I want to work with you for the first couple commits you do :D
20:58.27andrecasteloyup, i'm pretty free
20:58.51``Erikok, lets add you to the AUTHORS file first, at the end of the 'code contribution' section
20:59.26``Erikgo ahead and add yourself and commit it
20:59.44andrecastelogreat, will do :)
21:03.23CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31193 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: Added André Castelo to the Code Contributions list.
21:03.37andrecastelogreat success! :D
21:03.40pacman87congrats
21:04.02``Erikok, looks good, now lets try something a little trickier :D do you have access to a non-windows machine?
21:04.30andrecasteloi have a debian distribution installed
21:04.39``Erikdual boot, or seperate machine?
21:04.41andrecastelopacman87: thanks :)
21:04.45andrecastelodual boot
21:05.01``Erikok, uhm, I guess we can do this as a two step process
21:05.29andrecastelohm, ok, what do you have in mind ?
21:05.55``Erikcommit your misc/win32-msvc9 stuff :D you'll need to edit misc/Makefile.am and configure.ac to add the dirs (and test to make sure you didn't mess up the auto* stuff)
21:06.43``Erikwhy, yes, going from the most simple operation you'll do to the most complex just like that, I AM quite evil :D
21:07.26andrecastelookay
21:09.28brlcadwoohoo, congratulations andrecastelo
21:11.03``Erikbtw... after this, if you ever create a directory without brlcad's explicit permission, we'll take turns breaking your fingers :D
21:11.46``Erik<-- only brave enough to create dir's in src/adrt/
21:12.01andrecastelothanks, brlcad :D
21:12.53andrecastelo``Erik: ok, understood :)
21:13.43andrecastelodo the debian's autoconf and automake tools represent any problem for me to test the modifications ?
21:14.03``Erikuhmmmm, debians libtool does
21:14.18brlcadnotes pacman87 should add himself too
21:14.25brlcadi fixed it
21:14.36brlcaddebian compile should work just fine now
21:14.49``Erikexplicitely adding libtcl.la to the necessary links?
21:15.02cadguyq
21:15.17brlcadnope, hack added to m4/patch.m4
21:15.37``Erikoh, cool, so the am's are still clean
21:15.46brlcadfixes the libtool script, turns off the link_all_deplibs stupidity
21:16.02``Erikwhat should we do about the -w in toplevel Makefile.am?
21:16.07brlcadrather turns it on, instead of off
21:17.04andrecastelook, switching to debian
21:17.09andrecastelobrb
21:23.25brlcadyay, patches from dawn
21:33.02``Erik:o someone commited as root in '86
21:34.54PrezKennedy:o someone noticed
21:35.47``Eriksvn log . | grep '^r[0-9]' | awk '{print $3}' | sort | uniq -c | sort -nr
21:35.48``Erikpheer.
21:38.02PrezKennedyshutdown now
21:38.07PrezKennedyreal power in that command
21:38.08PrezKennedymwahaha
21:38.15``Erikdeltree \y c:\*.*
21:38.19``Erikerm, /y
21:40.29PrezKennedyprint "Farewell files" | rm -rf /*
21:40.34PrezKennedy:)
21:40.40PrezKennedyas root of course
21:40.53``Erikhehehe, I was about to su nobody :D
21:41.43PrezKennedyI did use Linux there for awhile, so I'm not totally hopeless.
21:42.27``Erikbut... you used linux... so you are hopeless ;) *duck*
21:45.00PrezKennedyhas an apple for snacktime and runs
21:45.51``Eriknoms an mbp
21:46.55PrezKennedyseems like a valid warning to put on their boxes...
21:47.04PrezKennedy"Warning: Do not eat"
21:47.25``Erikwarning: causes excessive awesomeness on skin contact, do not consume
21:47.41``Erik</fanboy> :D
21:53.17``Erikwanders home
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21:58.20andrecastelohey ``Erik.. turns out it's going to take a little more time - i didn't configure the distro to mount the ntfs drives
22:05.27CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31194 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/sfiles/ (csv-gap.nrt csv.nrt default.nrt gap1.nrt gap2.nrt): Tweak sfiles for nirt
22:08.05CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31195 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/nirt.c: Add very crude listing ability - shouldn't be using fixed numerical lengths...
22:11.53CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31196 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/nirt.c: Whoops - use bu_vls_free for vls structs
22:42.35``Erik'sok, andre, brlcad wants to roll a tarball tonight, so it might be better to hold off until tomorrow or day after
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080528

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080528

00:39.46brlcadandrecastelo: do you have access to cygwin and/or a unix/linux box?
00:40.31brlcadone thing that is always useful to check from time to time, especially when adding new dirs is to do a full distribution check
00:40.47brlcadI usually do something akin to the following when it comes time to release
00:41.30andrecastelonot cygwin, but msys.. and i tried compiling/configuring with that and it didn't work
00:41.32brlcadsh autogen.sh && ./configure --enable-all && make clean && make -j10 && make -j10 distcheck && make benchmark && make test
00:42.02brlcadyeah, msys would need a little more work
00:42.26brlcadI started that a couple years ago, but got bogged down with other tasks (and the payoff benefit at the time was very minimal)
00:42.46brlcadmostly just changing a lot of subtle assumptions
00:43.13andrecasteloi see
00:44.14brlcadokay, then no matter .. access to a linux/unix box would be ideal
00:44.35andrecasteloi did burn a source copy for immediate and temporary solution
00:44.39brlcadmaybe can get you an account set up on a server here in a few days
00:44.57andrecastelofor putty?
00:45.08brlcadwhatever ssh client you prefer ;)
00:45.16brlcadi have a better one I can give you
00:45.30brlcadputty works though too
00:46.05andrecasteloso i would compile here, if everything works, commit, svn update through the ssh and then compile through it too?
00:46.21brlcadyeah, something like that
00:46.25brlcadnot for every change of course
00:46.36brlcadjust for anything major that might break build
00:46.49brlcadotherwise, you can always wait for someone to bitch at you for breaking something ;)
00:47.49andrecasteloi was having some problems compiling earlier, and i thought i did break something
00:48.36andrecastelono one was having the problem.. but turns out it was something specific to msvc :b
00:49.39``Erikheh, yeah, bob had a local hack to work around it, the vcproj just didn't include it... he fixed it so it compiles, probably came out almost identical to what you posted on the patch tracker
00:50.08``Erikif you want to add your mlt.c file, knock yourself out, just make sure to update the Makefile.am as well
00:50.36``Erikas for the presented area patch, iirc you need to change it to use bu lists and to use the vmath routines for vector ops
00:51.00andrecastelohm ok, regarding the mlt.c i'll add it together with the makefile modifications
00:51.11andrecastelo(the modifications to include it, that is)
00:51.25``Erikname wise, you might want to call it viewmlt.c just to be consistent
00:52.12andrecastelohm ok..
00:52.16andrecastelowhat about the mlt_defs.h ?
00:53.00``Erikfor the Makefile.am, mimic viewedge or viewweight for the automake and if you're slightly off, I'll fix it (I'm not gonna give you too much grief about automake, your native environment is msvc)
00:53.04``Erikthat can stay how it is I think
00:53.56``Erikunless brlcad disagrees *shrug* he's final authority as far as I'm concerned
00:53.58``Erik:)
03:06.02starseeker_Does C have some function I can use to determine the length of a line in a file before I fget it?
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03:08.46starseeker_or alternatively, can I bu_vls_read a file into a vls struct and then break up the big vls into smaller vls structures according to newlines?
03:17.09Maloeranstarseeker, the ANSI compliant way is to fopen(), fseek(), fgetpos(), fclose() to get the file size
03:17.43MaloeranThe POSIX way would be to stat() it
03:18.14MaloeranOh, length of a line. Sorry about that, nevermind, there is no way as far as I know
03:23.14brlcadstarseeker_: "why"?
03:25.21brlcadyou can use bu_vls_gets if you want to read an unknown length line into a vls
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03:32.18brlcadhowdy hippieindamakin8
03:32.32hippieindamakin8hey brlcad goodevening
03:40.33brlcadheh, http://www.netsoc.tcd.ie/~mu/cgi-bin/shortpath.cgi?from=BRL-CAD&to=Kevin+Bacon
03:48.52hippieindamakin8so hows it goin
03:49.29hippieindamakin8brlcad to kevin bacon :)
04:02.45starseeker_brlcad:  re: why - so I can get the remainder of the description line without worrying about having some maximum character length defined for the line in advance
04:03.49starseeker_the way I've got the nirt option implemented at the moment is fully as hackish as the reading of scripts in the first place...
04:09.36brlcadthere's not really a way to do that without architecting something yourself, not that you need/want to
04:11.01brlcadyou can either read a character at a time instead of line at a time while parsing the file; use bu_vls_gets(); or stat the file, get the file size, allocate a buffer that size, bu_fgets with that as the buffer
04:11.26brlcadsuggests just using bu_vls_gets
05:05.35CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31197 10/brlcad/trunk/include/conf/make.vbs: ws
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06:35.44homovulgarishi all :)
06:37.40homovulgarisSean, did u check the patch i sent yesterday ? :)
06:43.05brlcadhomovulgaris: started to
06:43.16brlcadalas, i'm only running on fumes atm
06:43.37brlcadjust one hour z in about 40 hours
06:44.12brlcadwhat you wrote sounded good
06:44.44brlcadif you're around tomorrow, can go into detail then/there and maybe commit it first thing after the source release is posted
06:48.21homovulgaris:)
06:48.26homovulgarissounds good
06:49.01homovulgaristhough it is pretty clumsy .. i used fprintf instead of bu_log and my own print roots function instead of bn_pr_roots
06:50.56homovulgarisand one issue is ofcourse is the problem with functions like bn_poly_syntheticdivision which are both used by the polynomial solver and at the same time publically available through bn.h
06:51.57homovulgarisso i think for the transition stage we will need to add new functions which perform the same function
06:53.19homovulgarisi'll go have lunch :)
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12:23.35CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31198 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/CMakeLists.txt: Use uce-dirent to provide cross platform dirent functionality.
12:25.51CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31199 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/CMakeLists.txt: g_hyp.c: code to support hyperboloid of one sheet
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13:10.25cad21hallo
13:10.49cad21help
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14:20.08andrecastelogood morning :)
14:38.53andrecastelohey ``Erik, i'm having some trouble here with autogen and configure. I have the latest autoconf, automake and libtool. Here is the paste http://rafb.net/p/QSmMDd33.html
15:15.19pooliomornin'
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15:40.46brlcadmornin' poolio
17:16.01CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31200 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/ (Makefile.am flawfinder.sh repository.sh): break out the repository source consistency checks into their own test instead of keeping them bundled with the flawfinder test
17:31.20CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31201 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/if.c: nirt should report a gap whenever the gap los is greater than zero
17:57.57CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31202 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/ (command.c conversion.c if.c nirt.c parse_fmt.c showshot.c): ws
18:04.25CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31203 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/rtif.c: Don't add pix output flag when nirt is the rtcmd - saveview should now provide a working nirt call
18:04.47starseekerglances at irc...
18:05.03starseekeroops - should I quick mucking with things for a bit brlcad?
18:14.18``Erikho hum *look*
18:14.56``Eriktry "bash autogen.sh"
18:17.14CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r31204 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: added declarations for bu_vlb routines
18:18.57CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r31205 10/brlcad/trunk/include/rtserver.h: added fields required for use of bu_vlb
18:19.11prasad_whoa jra
18:20.04CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r31206 10/brlcad/trunk/include/RtServerImpl.h: added declarations of getRegionNames() and shootList() methods
18:21.33CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r31207 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: now uses byte array to return results rather than building Java objects in C code
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18:58.19brlcad``Erik: he's gone, but it's EOL problems
18:59.21brlcadsh not liking the windows line endings
19:04.24``ErikI thought he was doing it on a debian
19:05.18``Erikespecially with /mnt/win/ there O.o
19:06.53brlcadand?  that looks like a potentially mounted windows filesystem to me
19:07.17``Erikyeah, windows fs being mounted from a non-windows OS
19:07.27``Erikcygwin uses /cygdrive/c/, d'no myss
19:07.28``Erikmsys
19:07.40``Erikupdates firmware O.o
19:18.12CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31208 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: remove unused checks for sys/unistd.h, lseek(), and regcomp()
19:19.48CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31209 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: once again, incrtcl gets incrshafted. we're good to go
19:49.35``Erikhrmmmmm
19:49.41``Erikasc2g and g2asc seem very married to v4
19:59.50brlcadwoot, X11 forwarding to .bz fixed
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22:14.09andrecastelohi everyone :D
22:17.52pacman87hi andrecastelo
22:19.39andrecastelohi pacman87 :D
23:27.57``Erikbegins the long arduous path of unbreaking this poor machine
23:47.17pacman87``Erik: was that due to the firmware update?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080529

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080529

00:02.34*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1128565406.dsl.bell.ca)
01:00.06``Erikno, due to idiotic "enterprise management"
01:53.15louipcduude
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02:57.46*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@210.212.55.3)
03:52.11pacman87how 'usable' does code need to be for check-in?
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03:53.17pacman87my hyp crashes in a few places due to poorly stubbed functions (i hope it's just the stubs), but should affect anything else that doesnt' make a hyp
03:53.29pacman87s/should/shouldn't
03:53.43louipcusable enough so it doesn't break anything else I'm sure :D
03:53.58pacman87so if it's the only thing that's broken, it's fine?
03:54.23pacman87trying to balance 'commit early, commit often' with 'dont' break anything'
03:55.15louipcyou could just keep a bunch of patches too :D
03:56.49pooliopacman87: branch? :P
03:57.04pacman87it doesnt break anything else
03:57.12pacman87it just doesnt always work
03:58.17pacman87and at this point, i dont think a branch would be more useful than just holding off committing
03:58.57pacman87unless someone else wants to fill in some stubs, and in that case, g_hyp.c is already there
04:08.36andrecastelopacman87: g_hyp.c was giving me trouble compiling :B
04:08.57pacman87what error?
04:12.32*** part/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1128565406.dsl.bell.ca)
04:13.43pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/hyp.png and https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/hyp1.png
04:17.44pacman87andrecastelo: what sort of trouble?
04:18.34andrecastelopacman87: sorry for the delay.. wasn't compiling because of the declarations not in the beginning of the function
04:20.45pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/hyp2.png
04:21.47louipcnice
04:22.09pacman87that's all hardcoded, unfortunately
04:22.21pacman87five slices, eight points
04:22.34pacman87just to figure out how to do it
04:22.44pacman87now i need to go back and work out the tolerances
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04:31.23*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code! The fun begins this week! (May 26th)
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05:31.06pacman87goodnight all
05:56.23brlcadcya pacman87
05:59.38brlcadcool, start of a wireframe :)
06:01.17brlcadpacman87: nobody will be using or relying on hyp until you're "done", so as long as it compiles you should be just fine committing as frequently as possible
06:02.57brlcadand if they're petty compilation issues, you'll just learn to spot them as others point them out and/or fix them for you (you should be on the commits mailing list, it helps)
06:08.27CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31210 10/brlcad/trunk/include/conf/Makefile.am: need to remove COUNT during distclean so distcheck will work
06:15.46brlcadstarseeker: found a nice site with lots of relevant tidbits: http://resourceguide.eai.org/preservation/singlechannel.html
06:16.31brlcadgood reading, lots of things I was saying and then some
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07:00.06CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31211 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: add detailed release notes about the mirror and nirt changes as well as special mention of the cool new tire proc-db. begin 7.12.4 relese steps.
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07:14.23CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31212 10/brlcad/trunk/ChangeLog: svn2cl --break-before-msg --include-rev --revision {2008-04-23}:HEAD --stdout > ChangeLog ... preparing the 7.12.4 release.
07:16.06CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31213 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: make bumping the actual version file happen after changelog step
07:16.28CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31214 10/brlcad/trunk/include/conf/PATCH: bump to 7.12.4
07:47.54CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31215 10/brlcad/trunk/Makefile.am: make -w is not portable to at least bsd make and I don't see a good way to make it conditional
08:24.32CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31216 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: helps to use frs instructions that actually work
08:29.43brlcadpacman87: that's pretty much case in point by what is meant about frequent commits .. it tells a story, you can see when I'm working, what I'm doing, the good and the bad, but each step being a succint action that is functional
08:30.25brlcad(granted the release process has a lot of small steps, but it holds for most development code too)
08:32.33louipcI'm finding good committing requires some foresight
08:32.52clock_brlcad: does BRL-CAD have some assembler-optimized parts? Lilke hand-coded assembler for x86?
08:33.05louipcI still need to develop some of that arrrgh
08:33.48brlcadlouipc: indeed .. it changes the way you code so that you work in small incremental functional steps
08:33.57brlcadvery effective and self-documenting to an extent
08:37.33brlcadclock_: there was at one point, but we tend to avoid getting architecture-specific as that's generally really high-maintenance code with minimal payoff
08:39.37brlcadthe 30%-300% gain on some hand-coded assembler that only a couple devs can modify is washed out as soon as there's a new favorite, the algorithm needs to change, the devs change, and that performance is often what you'll have with next year's hardware anyways
08:40.40louipcI'm sure it was worth it in 1980 :D
08:40.42brlcadthat said, if someone wanted to work on it, it wouldn't really be prevented/discouraged .. just would have to be entirely conditional with a "clean C" variant for everyone else
08:41.20brlcadnah, even back then the percentage gains were about the same
08:41.34brlcadyou were just as likely to have a compiler that optimized better
08:41.46brlcadit really is high-maintenance code
08:42.58brlcadpays off nicely on small routines that perform some small task, but soon as you move up into application logic it really becomes a burden
08:43.20brlcadwe could have our math libs in assembler, or the boolean evaluator in assembler, that'd probably pay off nicely
08:43.38brlcadbut the areas of values are somewhat niche
08:44.16brlcadwonders if someone(tm) else can update freshmeat with this source release info
08:47.04CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31217 10/brlcad/tags/rel-7-12-4/: tag release 7.12.4
08:50.42CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31218 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/cvs.txt: include a disclaimer that these guidelines are obsolete and need updating
08:52.29CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31219 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS README include/conf/PATCH): release is tagged, bump to 7.12.5 in anticipation of 7.12.6 next month
08:55.20CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31220 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: give a better example of tagging a release (remote method that should always work), don't mention nonexistent cvspolicy.txt file
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09:10.55brlcadmoin d_rossberg
09:12.53*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code! || Release 7.12.4 is posted (source-only release)
09:22.04d_rossbergmoin moin brlcad
09:22.38d_rossbergis out for lunch
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10:59.20brlcadmm.. breakfast woulda been good
10:59.58brlcadyawns content that the release is posted
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12:17.37CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31221 10/brlcad/trunk/ (10 files in 5 dirs): Moved otranslate, oscale, orotate and ocenter to separate files in libged and modified by removing Tcl and changing their signatures.
12:20.25CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31222 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (CMakeLists.txt Makefile.am): Moved otranslate, oscale, orotate and ocenter to separate files in libged and modified by removing Tcl and changing their signatures.
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12:44.23``Erik*yargn*
12:44.56``ErikBRL-CAD had a couple hand coded assembly files, I think the last couple were removed already... a fast square root solver for  a gould and something similar for a vax iirc
12:47.46CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31223 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/arced.c: strchr needs string.h
12:58.21CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31224 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (5 files): Added trace.c and get_obj_bounds.c
13:57.49pooliomornin'
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14:33.31CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31225 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/get_obj_bounds.c: need string.h for various functions. Fix function signature to match header
14:33.31CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r31226 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/rtserver.h src/librtserver/rtserver.c): Mods to try to handle differences for 32-bit vs 64-bit architectures
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14:53.31CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31227 10/brlcad/trunk/ (9 files in 2 dirs): Moved struct wdb_trace_data definition to ged_private.h. Moved ged_trace(), ged_get_obj_bounds() and ged_get_obj_bounds2() function declarations to ged_private.h.
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15:31.59andrecastelohey morning
15:42.24CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31228 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/ged.h src/libged/ged_private.h): Moved a few defines from ged.h to ged_private.h
15:43.24CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31229 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/nirt.c: Move filearray variable declaration to beginning of code block.
15:45.19CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31230 10/brlcad/trunk/ (misc/win32-msvc8/libbu/libbu.vcproj src/libbu/dirent.c): Mods to expose bu_count_path and bu_list_path on windows.
15:47.05andrecastelohey ``Erik , check this out : http://rafb.net/p/vpaecY70.html
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16:56.27``Erikand he's gone again, heh
17:10.59CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31231 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libtie/ (tie.c tie.h tie_kdtree.c tie_kdtree.h tie_struct.h): minor type (signed vs unsigned) fixes
17:25.10CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31232 10/brlcad/trunk/ (AUTHORS src/librt/g_hyp.c src/mged/typein.c): Add mged hyp creation and plot() for basic wireframe view
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21:33.01andrecastelook, good evening everyone
21:34.43andrecastelohi brlcad, ``Erik
21:40.29poolioaloo andrecastelo
21:40.37andrecastelohey poolio
21:40.44``Erikoi, andre
21:40.52``Erikyour auto* issues, is that on linux or windows?
21:41.22andrecasteloon linux
21:41.29``Erikare you on linux right now?
21:41.35andrecasteloi've mounted the windows on it
21:41.37andrecasteloyes
21:41.43andrecasteloi've also tried the bash autogen.sh
21:41.47``ErikI'm wondering if running "bash autogen.sh" (and making sure it completes correctly) might help
21:41.47andrecastelosame problem
21:41.48``Erikok
21:41.58``Erikbrlcad thinks it might be a line end issue
21:41.58andrecastelolet me paste for you
21:42.06``ErikI saw the rafb.net link
21:42.34andrecasteloyeah, basically the same error -> http://rafb.net/p/xmzEcc13.html
21:42.39``Erikperhaps if you checked a version out from subversion onto your linux partition (using linux) and tried there? *shrug*
21:42.47andrecastelohm ok, will do
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21:43.25``Erikit seems weird to me that it'd fail like that, and the error messages seem... strangely mutilated O.o
21:52.34andrecastelo``Erik: ok, checkout on its way
21:53.23``Erikokie, I'm gonna go drive home now :D be back in a bit
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23:31.36andrecastelohey brlcad, i'm ready to commit the msvc9 changes
23:32.02andrecastelois there anything i should wait or do first?
23:40.50brlcadhowdy andrecastelo
23:41.04brlcadnope, just do it :)
23:41.10andrecastelohm, ok
23:41.11brlcadpresumably run make distcheck?
23:41.30brlcadthat'll make sure you add the dir correctly (if *nix)
23:42.20CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31233 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_hyp.c: Fix hyp's plot() to draw elliptical cross sections and hyperboloids not centered at the origin
23:42.23andrecasteloi'm on windows right now.. but regarding the configure and autogen problems, you were right. When i added the changes manually using linux, they ran ok
23:42.39brlcadfigured, seen it before
23:43.07brlcadusually it's windows folks that download a unix zip though
23:59.51PrezzKennedyfrantically clicks download on all the files without reading
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080530

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080530

00:00.10andrecastelohm, ok, msys doesn't have any autotools, so i'll switch to linux and do it there
00:07.28brlcaddon't worry about it, just commit it :)
00:07.36brlcadI can test it far easier/quickly
00:07.49PrezzKennedyhowdy brlcad
00:07.57brlcadand if you're on the commit list, you'll see any related fix so you'll know what to do next time
00:08.00brlcadhowdy PrezzKennedy
00:08.04brlcaddouble zee day, eh?
00:08.22PrezKennedynot purposefully ;)
00:08.23brlcaddouble en day, eh?
00:08.48PrezKennedyevery day is a double en day!
00:09.18brlcadparticipates in double arr day
00:09.22brlcadarrr
00:09.30brlcadarrrr
00:09.47PrezKennedyarrr!
00:12.06andrecastelohm ok, hopefully i won't break anything :)
00:20.59brlcadnothing that can't be easily undone
00:23.45andrecasteloi've got a property problem
00:23.58andrecastelohm let me show you
00:24.00andrecastelo1 sec
00:29.46andrecastelook, here - > http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/2897/commitproblemvz8.jpg
00:35.44brlcadsee dev page on wiki .. faq :)
00:36.14andrecastelook, will do
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00:56.53IriX64http://www.irix32.spaces.live.com/photos
00:57.03IriX64pick the brlcad albumn :)
01:55.26andrecastelohey brlcad, i managed to get the automatic properties working and nearly all files now have mime prop
01:55.52andrecasteloexcept for brlcad.sln
01:56.34andrecasteloi checked the msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln and it doesn't have a mime property
02:09.16starseeker_growls at the oed pdf...
02:15.03CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31234 10/brlcad/trunk/ (292 files in 147 dirs): Modifications and additions made to incorporate misc/win32-msvc9.
02:21.26pacman87292 files?
02:26.24louipcbah microsoft
02:27.27andrecasteloactually, i think svn counted the dirs as well, as there is one file per dir o.O
02:36.37CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31235 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc9/libbu/libbu.vcproj: Updated msvc9's libbu.vcproj to reflect modifications made to the msvc8 version.
03:03.30yukonbobhello, cadheads
03:07.43pacman87hi yukonbob
03:25.07brlcadandrecastelo: mm, probably one I need to add to my list .. the new "vc9 solution" files
03:25.26brlcadit should probably be treated just like dsp and other vc files
03:25.52brlcadoh, sln is in my config file .. just no mime type
03:26.07brlcadbah, it's just text/plain
03:30.47brlcadandrecastelo: with that change, that's actually "user visible"
03:30.56brlcadso you should update NEWS too
04:03.54CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31236 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/arced.c: sys headers before public, common before sys
04:11.06CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31237 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (8 files): more header cleanup, use relative paths for private headers
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05:15.57andrecastelo__i guess my connection isn't exactly stable right now S:
05:23.06CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31238 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Added a line, in the latest release, about compilation support for the MSVC 9.
05:24.18PrezKennedybrlcad, you need to convince my dad he needs to upgrade the modem and the router he has so the Internet stays up better
05:25.21PrezKennedyit was down for a week and my mom had no e-mail... so the first night im home im troubleshooting computer stuff :P
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08:01.11d_rossberga question for the C++/gcc gurus: what's wrong with line 12 in http://ftp.brlcad.org/~rossberg/test.cpp ?
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08:55.46homovulgarishi all :)
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10:31.37CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31239 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/nirt.c: Switch from using arbitrary fixed buffer size in nirt's listformats to using bu_vls and bu_vls_gets
10:41.58starseeker_brlcad:  Hmm.  Is it possible to assign contents to a vls like this:  bu_vls_addr(&line_buffer)[i] = '\0'; or is that too low level to work?
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13:05.52brlcadstarseeker_: whethere you can do that or not ... you really shouldn't :)
13:06.07brlcadwhat do you need to inject nulls for?
13:11.22Axman6everyone knows nulls take up less RAM
13:11.24Axman6>_>
13:14.08``Erikheh
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13:39.16homovulgarishey sean is there any issue regarding using STL for the parametrics and constraints part
13:40.23homovulgarisi mean since there are no bindings presently interfacing with librt would be tricky .. but other than that ?
13:41.14homovulgarisalso :) did u have a look at my patch :)
13:47.28``ErikSTL isn't ubiquitous, so it'd have to be included in src/other/... what functionality is missing from libbu that'd make STL necessary?
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14:04.48clock_"What is the first version of BRL-CAD you used?"
14:04.52clock_How do I figure that out?
14:05.01``Erikyou, uh, remember? :D
14:05.21louipcI misremembered
14:05.24clock_May 16, 2005
14:05.27clock_which version was that?
14:05.33``ErikI think a 6
14:05.43clock_I already voted, but don't know what :( Or didn't I?
14:05.56clock_OK I put one 6.x vote there
14:06.10louipcyeah I voted for 6 but I think it was actually 7
14:06.11clock_A psychoanalyst could maybe do a deep regression
14:06.39``Eriknow my question would be if that means the first time you personally used BRL-CAD, or the oldest version you've used... because my first exposure was 5, but I've used 4 recently (and have dorked with 0 series)
14:07.15clock_If they asked me what was the first skateboard I rode I remember that exactly
14:07.22louipc7.0.2 was 20050106
14:07.33``Erikhrm, 7 came out in '04
14:08.15``Erik7.0.2 was the first open source release, jan 07, '05
14:08.30``Erikmebbe my first was 6 *shrug*
14:10.04``Erikah, my first commit was on a 6, in the pre-7 phase :)
14:11.19louipcneato
14:12.04``Erikhttp://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad?view=rev&revision=22204   pheer
14:12.38``Eriktook away brlcad's cake O:-)
14:19.53starseeker_brlcad:  That's found in the nirt parser - they were doing it with a fixed buffer - I'm trying to introduce a vls to get rid of the fixed length
14:20.32starseeker_not really sure why they were doing it, to be honest...
14:20.43Axman6is any of the original BRL-CAD code around?
14:20.53starseeker_define "original"
14:21.04Axman61.0
14:21.15starseeker_understands the cvs history stretches into antiquity...
14:21.15Axman6or... earlier
14:22.11Axman6what was the original machine it was written for?
14:22.20Axman6i forget BRL-CAD's history
14:24.21brlcadaww, d_rossberg left
14:24.31brlcadthat was a hard one ..
14:24.54brlcadclock_: did you ever use it before it was open source?
14:25.00brlcadif not, it was a 7.*
14:25.58clock_brlcad: no
14:26.55brlcadAxman6: all of brl-cad's code is in the revision history
14:27.09brlcadyou can get to the "1.0" and earlier revisions through svn
14:27.10Axman6heh, nice.
14:27.24brlcadnot that they'll compile without overhauling, but the code is certainly there
14:27.33starseeker_brlcad:  What was that libtool trick you used to run gdb on an uninstalled binary?
14:27.39Axman6how long have you been working on it?
14:28.06brlcadlibtool --mode=execute path/to/wrapper --with whatever args etc
14:28.15starseeker_thanks :-)
14:28.23brlcader, gdb path/to/wrapper
14:29.10brlcadpath/to/libtool --mode=execute gdb path/to/your/app_wrapper --with whatever args
14:29.39brlcad~libtoolgdb is path/to/libtool --mode=execute gdb path/to/your/app_wrapper --with whatever args
14:29.40ibotbrlcad: okay
14:34.46brlcadanyone else figure out d_rossberg's C++ snippet and/or interested in what's "wrong" with it?
14:37.08``Erikbrlcad, team lead wants to talk to you, wanna meet for lunch?
14:37.50andrecastelohey everyone
14:37.52``Erik(it'll compile without overhaul... if you do something like get a bsd4.3 image running on a vax 11/780)
14:37.58andrecastelobrlcad: i'm curious :B
14:38.24``Erikor, 43bsd rather O.o :)
14:38.30PrezKennedybrlcad, whats wrong with it? even im curious
14:38.50``Erik(and something about a vcr remote?)
14:39.11clock_brlcad: is it easy to make animated figure in brl-cad using those blobs or how its called 2 spheres with a cone?
14:39.49clock_I "just" write a C program that generateas the scene for every frame don't I?
14:42.48brlcad``Erik: I'm coming in at some point
14:43.27``Erikyeah, he just wants to make sure he gets to talk to you sometime today, he said lunch would work, and I like to eat O.o :D
14:44.09brlcadhm, that would save me a trip
14:44.37brlcadPrezKennedy: if you try to instantiate his CWorker class, the error message becomes a lot more clear
14:45.02``Eriktemplates? clear? what? :D
14:45.23brlcadinstead of just a syntax error, you see that the compiler has a choice in how to interpret AListIterator
14:45.44brlcadone as a value, other as a type .. it defaults to value given it's a nested class (which is wrong)
14:45.53brlcadso you have to tell it that you meant a type
14:46.06brlcadthen it all works just fine
14:47.47brlcadclock_: depends on your definition of what consitutes easy, but I'd say 'no' for the average joe but maybe not too bad for you
14:48.27brlcadpresumably your talking about either metaballs or the particle primitive
14:53.20starseeker_'s head spins a bit - Ch is declared to be an int, but it also holds the character of interest during the parsing??
14:53.59brlcadsure
14:54.18brlcadcharacters are just integer valus 0->127 for non-unicode lower ascii text
14:54.56starseeker_OK, so what will bu_vls_strcat do when I feed it something like that?
14:55.09starseeker_it's typed as an int, not a char
14:56.13clock_brlcad: hmm which one is metaballs and which particle primitive?
14:58.35starseeker_stares at it some more and notices the core interact loop is also using the 256 assumption right in the for loop... arrgh
14:58.43starseeker_time to step back and rethink
15:01.40clock_The new website is easy with textmode links in regard with easy access to download.
15:02.06clock_3 obvious clicks. Great.
15:03.53brlcadhas a whole load of information to load that makes just about everything accessible within 3 clicks or less
15:05.17homovulgariswhen will we have doxygen at brlcad.org :)
15:05.18louipcthe weak point there is the sourceforge site :P
15:05.43clock_louipc: usually I get a "download should start if doesn't click [here]"
15:05.51clock_and I click [here] and it's a cyclic link to the same page
15:05.58clock_But not in case of the BRL-CAD sourceforge.
15:05.59homovulgarissourceforge has too many ads :( or too big ones at least
15:06.17clock_homovulgaris: a smart patch into /etc/hosts can make most of them nonfunctional :)
15:06.38clock_Make the ad websites resolve to 0.0.0.0 or 127.0.0.1 or something like that
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15:06.48louipcI mean I have to scroll a full page of hyperlinks before I get to the relevant download link on the sf.net site
15:07.16homovulgaris:)
15:07.18clock_louipc: what about making a proxy on brlcad.org that would mirror sourceforge except that it would rip out all the ads?
15:07.35clock_like forward requests so that they couldn't complain about (c) violation
15:07.49louipcthe ads don't bug me
15:07.55clock_I want sourceforge in flash
15:07.58louipcbecause I don't see them :D
15:08.03louipckills clock_
15:08.07clock_louipc: are you blind?
15:08.18louipcno I blocked them
15:08.20starseeker_considers bumping 256 to 512 until he figures out the right way...
15:08.35homovulgarisflash :O why :) i am on debian amd64 .. i have to chroot to run flash
15:08.43louipcand I don't see them in my text browser
15:08.50clock_I deleted flash because 9.0.124.0 has a remote execution
15:09.03clock_and there is only a limited functionality beta which is not on the official download site
15:09.20PrezKennedytext browser??? thats crazy talk
15:09.36clock_RM(1) rm - apply security patches
15:09.40louipcit's cool talk
15:09.57homovulgarisI like lynx.. but not very realistic in todays world i guess :P
15:10.34PrezKennedyits crazy talk!
15:10.37clock_DESCRIPTION This  manual  page documents the GNU version of rm.  rm removes each specified security hole.
15:10.52PrezKennedylike listening to a high quality orchestra on a pc speaker
15:12.15louipcmore like earmuffs in a construction site to me
15:13.09clock_louipc: :)
15:13.21louipccss, javascript, images = noise
15:13.31clock_Well - we wrote a browser that supports both text and graphics mode. So everyone can select what he likes, just with a -g switch.
15:13.37brlcadhomovulgaris: hopefully soon -- the old doxygen docs are still up though -- http://brlcad.sourceforge.net/doxygen/
15:14.19clock_./configure --prefix=/usr a bad idea?
15:14.40brlcadyep
15:14.41louipcpossibly
15:14.42brlcadusually
15:14.43clock_I hate how stripes run around my screen when I type ./configure
15:14.56clock_and LCDs are supposed to have better picture than CRTs
15:15.06clock_I would tune the LCD TV if it had a tuning knob.
15:15.42clock_On the other hand, it tells me when I should switch terminals and type "make"!
15:16.01homovulgarisbrlcad: ok :) doxygen is pretty helpful in explaining code
15:16.17clock_We tried to use it but it somehow misbehaved
15:16.25clock_some functions were completely missing the clickable links
15:16.56clock_The call graphs are nice to tell you that everything calls everything else anyway ;-)
15:17.08louipcheheh
15:17.50brlcadit would be more useful for brl-cad if it was comprehensive and properly grouped
15:18.04brlcadright now i think there's about 70% coverage or so (total guesstimate)
15:18.26brlcadwith basic grouping
15:18.28clock_total guesstimate, that sounds so scientific!
15:19.04brlcadit could really use some attention and love to beef it up, particulaly good task for someone looking to learn/explore the code base
15:19.26clock_brlcad: to explore Doxygen bugs? :)
15:20.58homovulgaris:) i'll try
15:21.24homovulgarispresently the librt pages crashes everytime when i open it in my epiphany-browser
15:21.29homovulgarisi mean too big i guess
15:21.45homovulgaristoo many big call graphs probably
15:22.13homovulgarissorry.. librt main page .. not pages :)
15:22.38clock_homovulgaris: epiphany crashes?
15:23.45homovulgarisnot epiphany in particular the whole computer sort of hangs.. i have to kill epiphany
15:25.03clock_Eats up all the resources?
15:25.51homovulgarisgrouping would involve basically editing misc/doxygen_structure and addtogroup in the various files in source code right
15:32.10homovulgarislibbn and libbu pages seem pretty ok.. rt is pretty vast :)
15:32.46homovulgariscall graphs are ofcourse pretty complicated in the case of all functions
15:33.20homovulgarisbrlcad: when can i have commit access :) ( please :) )
15:33.47clock_"Elapsed compilation time: 22 hours, 29 minutes, 46 seconds"
15:34.14clock_I started to compile at 18.14
15:34.17clock_ended at 18.33
15:34.26clock_and 22 hours 29 minutes elapsed in between
15:34.31homovulgarisi was thinking of adding a new directory called libpc in src directory which would contain all the code for parametrics and constraints .. ok libpg is now libpc :)
15:34.34clock_Does BRL-CAD come with an integrated time machine?
15:34.53homovulgariso o
15:35.40homovulgarisdo i have to put all my header files in include directory
15:36.01brlcadhomovulgaris: yeah, that's a pretty huge page ..
15:36.29brlcadbecause it's a pretty huge library .. :)
15:36.54brlcadbut yeah, basically doxygen_structure and addtogroups
15:37.04clock_brlcad: any explanation for the time travel?
15:37.17clock_brlcad: my PC didn't travel at relativistic speeds during the compilation
15:37.31homovulgarisand yeah about STL .. :) i can use it right ?
15:37.35brlcadclock_: it'll do funky things crossing midnight
15:37.37pacman87clock_: i think it starts the time from either autogen or configure, not necessarily the start of make
15:38.00brlcadhomovulgaris: that depends on a lot of things .. and where it's exposed
15:38.04homovulgarisi think it is configure
15:38.20brlcadexposing stl on public interface functions can be hugely problematic on some systems (like windows)
15:38.21clock_brlcad: no crossing midnight here
15:38.32clock_pacman87: starting from autogen would explain
15:38.39clock_starting from configure wouldn't
15:38.49pacman87Elapsed installation time: 29 minutes, 38 seconds
15:38.49pacman87Elapsed time since configuration: 31 minutes, 27 seconds
15:38.57brlcadclock_: then feel free to debug it.. ;)  sh/elapsed.sh does the deed
15:39.56brlcadconfigure writes out a timestamp for the elapsed configuration time, compilation stamp is in include/conf
15:40.15clock_I think the elpased config time was OK
15:40.15brlcadlogic is in the top-level Makefile.am
15:42.04homovulgarishmm.. well stl wont be exposed as such . I mean using it for internal representation
15:42.48brlcadyou can do whatever you want for internal representation in libpg, but not in the C libs
15:42.59brlcads/whatever/something within reason/ :)
15:43.09brlcadhas to run out for a bit
15:43.27homovulgaris:) k
15:43.43clock_the png-pix is a useful tool, beyond the scope of BRL-CAD
15:44.12clock_clock@duke:~$ /usr/brlcad/bin/png-pix
15:44.12clock_Usage: /usr/brlcad/bin/png-pix [-v] [png_input_file] > pix_output_file
15:44.12clock_Are you intending to type in a PNG format file??
15:44.12clock_Saving stack trace to unknown-4077-bomb.log
15:44.15clock_WARNING: Unable to obtain a call stack backtrace
15:44.38clock_If it understands the user wants a synopsis, why does it ask for a PNG being typed in, and then bombs on top of it?
15:44.41Maloeranagrees, though he wishes images would not be flipped upside-down
15:45.23clock_Maloeran: you can flip the png with imagemagick ;-)
15:45.44Maloeran:) Sure
15:45.53clock_although imagemagick is slow
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16:36.09CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31240 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/wdb_obj.c: Fixed a cast in the parameter list of a call to ged_get_obj_bounds(). If'ed out an unused variable in wdb_hide_cmd().
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19:51.36pacman87aww, no sqrt(3)/2 in vmath.h :(
20:39.29brlcadpacman87: actually that's somewhat curious
20:40.04brlcadsome systems do have an M_SQRT3, but I can't find a definitive answer on whether that was recently added, is posix, etc
20:40.29brlcadgo ahead and add an M_SQRT3
20:40.47pacman87i realized i dont actually need it
20:40.53brlcadyou'll probably need to conditionalize all of them though instead of basing them all being set dependent upon M_PI
20:41.42pacman87sqrt(3) is for cos(30)
20:41.51brlcadclock_: what version of brl-cad was that?  I don't get that usage
20:42.04pacman87and i actually wanted cos(22.5)
20:43.34brlcadMaloeran: they're not upside-down .. it's just using "first quadrant" image coordinates
20:45.27brlcadsure, feed that to a tool that expects fourth-quadrant coordinates and it'll be flipped, but then the user is at fault to assume it's a fourth quadrant data ..
20:49.23homovulgarisstarseeker: the bunny sure looks funny :)
20:50.41brlcadhomovulgaris: I've reviewed your patches, a few comments for you this weekend
20:51.05homovulgarisok
20:51.30brlcadas for commit, I'm waiting for john to give you a thumbs up -- as soon as he's comfortable you're not going to go hog wild nuts, he'll let me know ;)
20:51.54brlcadand he knows this, you don't need to ping him
20:51.58homovulgaris:) oh ok
20:52.09brlcadother than keeping him apprised of your status (e.g. daily update? :)
20:52.21brlcads/daily/blog/
20:52.33homovulgarisok.. :)
20:52.58homovulgarisi'd do both i guess :)
20:53.01brlcadgets rss feeds of the updates (as do some of the other mentors) so it will get noticed :)
20:53.57pacman87homovulgaris: have you considered adding a link to your blog from http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2008
20:54.06starseekerbreaths deeply and tries to recover from mandatory training...
20:54.59CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31241 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Update version to 7.12.5
20:55.47homovulgarisI guess i will have to start one for libpg :) is there a way to get rss feeds for a particular tag or something in wordpress blogspot etc. ?
21:05.34brlcadhomovulgaris: any of the major blogging systems have rss feeds, your user: page on the wiki works fine too
21:07.06brlcadexample: http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Pacman87
21:07.17pacman87:)
21:08.23brlcadtis a good example :)
21:08.24pacman87speaking of, does anyone know how to make a sidebar on a wiki page?
21:08.38brlcadwhat do you mean?
21:08.56homovulgariswas seeing pacman's page a few minutes back :)
21:08.56pacman87like a box on the top-right side of the pages
21:09.00pacman87page*
21:09.12pacman87that stays at the top of the page when i add new entries
21:09.48brlcadoh, you mean like the info boxes on wikipedia?
21:09.52pacman87yeah
21:09.53brlcadthose are templates
21:10.07pacman87so will they work with the brlcad wiki?
21:10.10brlcadyou have to create/import a template that does what you want
21:10.26brlcadthey're generally portable if you find one that does what you want
21:10.46brlcadbut they don't come for free, you have to create it or import one from another wiki
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21:11.30pacman87something like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox
21:12.52brlcadyep!
21:13.09brlcadyou should be able to export that from wikipedia and import it
21:13.20brlcad(special page, export)
21:14.09brlcadvery likely has other components that go with it usually (images, docs, etc) that it links to or uses
21:19.02pacman87does this look right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Export/Template:Infobox
21:20.13pacman87Permission error from BRL-CAD: The action you have requested is limited to users in the group Sysops.
21:30.04brlcadwhen do you get that?
21:30.48pacman87http://brlcad.org/wiki/Special:Import
21:30.49brlcadyeah, that looks right .. the export should be an xml file, you'll import that on the cad wiki
21:35.27brlcadwhat about now?
21:36.46pacman87the brlcad import page is still an error
21:37.26brlcadand now? :)
21:39.23pacman87there we go, thanks
22:00.57CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31242 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/nsis/brlcad.nsi: calculate the version dynamically. rather untested, but it should be pretty close from what the nsis scripting reference describes. one less place to update the version when it changes...
22:02.50pacman87i think i did something wrong with the template import
22:02.56pacman87http://brlcad.org/wiki/Template:Infobox
22:03.19brlcadI would agree
22:03.54brlcador
22:04.26brlcadit could be incompatibilities between versions of mediawiki .. wikipedia don't stay closely in sync with mediawiki
22:04.43brlcadsee if mediawiki has that template
22:07.32brlcadhttp://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Category:Info_templates
22:07.48pacman87http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Infobox_templates
22:16.18pacman87are there any templates already in use by brlcad's wiki?
22:20.43CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31243 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/nsis/brlcad.nsi: oops, fix missing goto logic .. there is undoubtedly a better way to do this, but good enough
22:23.08brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Special:Mostlinkedtemplates
22:25.48brlcadbasically you just want a table on the right with some named fields
22:26.05brlcadthe admin tip template might help
22:28.31pacman87i dont' think it likes wikipedia's "#if"
22:35.56brlcadthat might be some functionality that needs to be enabled, or another plugin
22:36.36brlcadif you find it, lemme know and I can install it, or set you up to do it
22:37.10brlcadthere's like 300 mediawiki plugins, we're only using like 8
22:37.35brlcadhad to install a plugin just yesterday so I could actually have the ability to reset a user's password (!)
22:38.12brlcadtheir "default feature set" truly is minimal..
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03:48.21CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31244 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_hyp.c: Enhanced plot() with more precise wireframe, and changed from hardcoded statements to a loop
03:49.41pacman87new and improved: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/hyp3.png
04:47.30brlcadawesome!
04:48.00brlcadthat's pretty cool, so does it raytrace?
04:50.38brlcadawn
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04:56.18pacman87brlcad: no, rt fails.  i haven't really looked into it that closely
04:56.34pacman87i need to get import5 and export5 working first
04:59.52CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31245 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/adc.c: reorder to avoid forward decl of adc_print_vars, replace M_SQRT2_DIV2 with M_SQRT1_2
05:00.41CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31246 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/chgview.c: don't need defines, vmath.h provides
05:00.53brlcadnods
05:01.29pacman87is there a way to convert a brlcad database to human readable format?
05:01.35pacman87so i can check my exports?
05:01.46pacman87and my imports seperately
05:02.31CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31247 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/deprecation.txt: deprecate M_SQRT2_DIV2 .. it's entirely unnecessary since it's the same as sqrt(1/2) and/or 1/sqrt(2) .. so M_SQRT1_2 is suitable.
05:05.15CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31248 10/brlcad/trunk/include/vmath.h: beef up the tolerances on the standard M_ math defines, add a couple that were missing, and protect them all individually for the OS's that define some but not others.
05:06.06brlcadpacman87: only after you implement the hook function for it
05:07.03pacman87hmmm?
05:11.06pacman87is the database file format documented somewhere
05:11.14brlcadusual means for testing an individual primitive is to implement the rt_*_print() and rt_*_describe() callbacks
05:11.29brlcaddescribe is what you see when you run "l object"
05:11.46pacman87ok
05:11.59brlcadprint is what you see during edit when faceplace is enabled (it's on the gui menu, Misc)
05:12.58pacman87i'm still running classic mode, though, so no menus for me
05:15.32brlcadyeah, you get faceplate by default
05:15.40brlcadthat's the gui overlay you're looking at
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05:18.15brlcadif you run oed (i.e. oed / primitive) or sed (i.e. sed primitive) on a given primitive .. it'll enter edit mode and display the print() arguments on the overlay
05:18.53brlcadgenerally speaking, though, l ("ell") is more flexible since you can print literally anything and faster to test with (no edit mode)
05:19.03pacman87mged> oed / hyp.s
05:19.03pacman87mged> rt_nul_xform unimplemented
05:19.03pacman87transform_editing_solid failed to apply a matrix transform, aborting
05:19.31brlcadah, yeah
05:19.39brlcadso stick to l then :)
05:19.42pacman87that, and "mged> l hyp.s" actually works now :)
05:19.57brlcadyou can't go into edit mode without a couple of the other callbacks
05:20.14pacman87thanks, bedtime for me now.  i'll pick this up later
05:20.19brlcadnods
05:20.24brlcadnice progress!
05:20.30pacman87thanks
05:20.39pacman87do i need to worry about tolerances for the wireframe?
05:20.46brlcadmind if I share those screenshots?
05:20.52pacman87not at all :)
05:20.54pacman87with whom?
05:21.17brlcadnah, the wireframe just needs to be "good enough"
05:21.33pacman87so just tess() needs the tolerance?
05:21.34brlcadat least not until there's proper high/low support
05:21.42brlcadtess definitely needs it, yet
05:21.46brlcads/yet/yes/
05:21.59pacman87my question was more in the 'just' than in the 'tess()'
05:22.18brlcadcontemplates
05:22.25pacman87ie, is tolerance used for anything else?
05:23.04brlcadyeah
05:23.26brlcadi mean, whenever you perform a computation in any of the routines, there are a set of tolerances to take into consideration
05:23.34brlcade.g. a base computation tolerance
05:23.41brlcada distance tolerance
05:24.09brlcadyou don't "have" to use them strictly speaking, but you'll just likely get bad behavior if they're not implemented
05:25.02pacman87ok
05:25.03brlcadthe extent at which various primitives properly use and need tolerancing certainly varies, so just have to use good judgement
05:25.47brlcadfor example, in the arbs, it uses the distance tolerance to determine whether or not two points are the same point or not
05:26.08brlcadif those  points coincide, then it's not an arb8 .. it's an arb7 or arb6, etc
05:26.23pacman87makes sense
05:27.49pacman87tries to go to bed again, goodnight for real this time
05:34.13brlcadcya!
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15:05.58andrecastelohey ``Erik, what is the name you suggested for mlt_main.c ? viewmlt.c ?
15:12.13andrecasteloand the src/rt/makefile.am modifications is something like this -> http://rafb.net/p/lVjBy170.html ?
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17:06.15poolioOh my.
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19:47.11thing0hey yall
19:50.31pacman87hi thing0
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20:41.41madanthi thing0 :)
20:42.21madantpacman87: ;) blog added in the wiki http:://parametrics.wordpress.com
20:42.52madantwhoops i meant http://parametrics.wordpress.com
20:44.10madantoh .. and i am homovulgaris.. :)
20:44.13pacman87madant: cool
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20:44.37pacman87i figured that when the blog said 'libpg'
20:44.55madantdid the template thing work out for the wiki ?
20:45.11pacman87i didnt' get it working yet, any ideas?
20:45.48madantwhat exactly is the error ? the plugin not supported due to version ?
20:46.42pacman87http://brlcad.org/wiki/Template:Infobox
20:47.08madantyikes
20:47.10pacman87raw xml: http://brlcad.org/wiki/Special:Export/Template:Infobox
20:49.07madantwhere did u receive the template from ?
20:49.11madantwikimedia ?
20:49.15pacman87wikipedia
20:50.12pacman87http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox
20:51.47madanthmm.. they say it is metatemplate used to make other templates..
20:52.05madantso we would have to use another template or write one to use it ?
20:52.17pacman87their examples show it in use
20:58.23madanthmm..
20:58.52madanti better go eat something :) 02:20 am here :)
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23:16.18GnontgholI am packing BRL-CAD to Ubuntu, and it would help to get the source for the .deb package you are shipping.
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23:20.32louipcGnontghol: it's in misc/debian in the source tree
23:23.01Gnontghollouipc:  Thanks. Wou just saved me a ton of work
23:23.38louipccheers
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23:36.11brlcadarrives in NY
23:37.16brlcadandrecastelo: yeah, something like that
23:38.44brlcadGnontghol: there isn't a debian maintainer (that I'm aware of) if you're interested
23:46.25Gnontgholbrlcad: I am new to this packing thing. I don't think I am the man.
23:46.38brlcadfair enough
23:46.47brlcadthough you can certainly try to be the man ;)
23:47.29brlcadthe .deb needs a lot of work
23:47.45brlcadregardless of maintainership
23:48.36andrecastelobrlcad: ok, i'll commit.. if anything goes wrong you can feel free to break my legs :)
23:50.14pacman87andrecastelo: do you have a dev log up somewhere?
23:50.41andrecastelopacman87: dev log?? hm don't think so
23:51.44GnontgholI think the age of this project is making the life of the .deb maintainer hard.
23:51.55pacman87the other three of us have our logs linked from http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2008
23:52.04Gnontgholimplicit declarations and name colitions all around the place
23:52.58louipcGnontghol: well the default install location is safe
23:54.03andrecastelopacman87: ahh.. i had a blog set up for gsoc, will link there
23:54.14louipcGnontghol: /usr/brlcad/ I stick it in /opt/brlcad/ because I don't think /usr is really supposed to be populated with per-package directories
23:54.58pacman87andrecastelo: cool, thanks.  i like to see what other coders are workign on :)
23:56.33Gnontghollouipc: You are right, but making a spessial install location is a bit hackish
23:58.40GnontgholI sugest that you do a total code and structure review and release the reviewed code as brlcad-8.0
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080601

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080601

00:25.50*** part/#brlcad blackrose2u (n=blackros@c-71-207-177-52.hsd1.al.comcast.net)
00:26.42andrecastelohey brlcad , is there a problem if i create the directory /misc/win32-msvc8/mlt to hold mlt.vcproj ?
01:05.07starseekerbrlcad:  Unless I'm totally mistaken, there is a lot about the Query Ray Control Panel that is not working.
01:05.38*** join/#brlcad madant (i=homovulg@gateway/tor/x-c6c277cd63425d0c)
01:05.47starseekerbrlcad:  I'm going to try again, but have you seen any reports of the panel not working?
01:07.26starseekerThe air flag doesn't seem to do anything either with the mouse toggle or adding it to the base name
02:31.11brlcadandrecastelo: of course not
02:34.11brlcadstarseeker: no, I've not heard any reports, could always just be something recent
02:34.57brlcadcould be a lot of things, just have to trace through the code and/or try previous revs
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05:37.34brlcadmadant: congratulations ... :)
05:43.54brlcadcan talk more later about some details, like how your patches aren't conforming to HACKING (but were at least mostly self-consistent) and what to do next
05:44.09brlcadstill a fair bit of discussion to be had about how libpg integrates
05:47.31brlcadand some questions about those graphs
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06:35.34madantHi sean,
06:35.49madantcould u tell me about the non-conformity..
06:36.11madantI am planning to edit the designer document today in the following 5 or 6 hours.
06:36.25madantwe can discuss libpg after that
06:37.24brlcadyeah, later ..
06:37.29brlcadmust nap
06:37.39madanttime for lunch here ;)
06:38.01brlcadnot at home on usualy crazy schedule, so I gotta get a little conformity to be up during daystar hours all week
06:38.03madanthappy nap :)
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14:28.06ciccerohi
14:28.37cicceroi am looking for help
14:29.05cicceroi am trying to intal brlcad 7.12.4
14:29.43cicceroand a can not 'make' the program
14:30.23cicceroi have this problem "/.libs/librt.so: undefined reference to `TclReFree' "
14:30.35cicceroany idea????
14:31.12cicceroor somebody can said  me where to look?
14:45.14madantu ran autogen.sh first right ?
14:45.29madantand in configure did u specify --prefix=install dir ?
14:47.17madantand try using ./configure --enable-all
15:18.05``Erik*cookcookcook*
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15:18.36``Erikhowdy, andre
15:19.02``Erik<-- install subversion on a new laptop, then will check out and look at your commit
15:19.27``ErikI was thinking the binary would be "rtmlt" and the main C file would be "viewmlt.c" to conform to the other rt's
15:21.29andrecastelosounds good, i haven't commited yet, i'll change
15:22.14``Erikotherwise, the Makefile.am patch looked all good
15:34.14``Erikgrumbles about the long dep chain to get svn via macports O.o
15:38.44CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31249 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/ (Makefile.am brlcad/brlcad.sln rtmlt/ rtmlt/rtmlt.vcproj): Added misc/win32-msvc8/rtmlt and misc/win32-msvc8/rtmlt/rtmlt.vcproj. Made modifications in misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln and in misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am in order to add the new directory and project.
15:40.29CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31250 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc9/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Renamed the mlt project to rtmlt. Alterations were made to misc/win32-msvc9/brlcad/brlcad.sln and misc/win32-msvc9/Makefile.am to correctly rename the directory and project.
15:41.52CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31251 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/ (Makefile.am viewmlt.c): Added viewmlt.c to src/rt/ and made changes to src/rt/Makefile.am to support that.
15:43.04andrecastelo``Erik: is it ok to separate the commits like that?
15:46.16andrecasteloisn't it ridiculous how msvc9 "updates" msvc8 projects to the latest version, effectively changing 1 line and rendering the project incompatible with msvc8? i hate that
15:50.39``Eriksure
15:51.01``Erikyou'd have to go pretty silly to commit too often, it's FAR more common for people to commit too infrequently
15:52.44``Erikalso; worry most about getting your code working, at least provide a heads up on new files or build system changes if you don't adjust the automake stuff yourself, but don't worry too much about doing automake wrong or keeping msvc8 in sync or anything... your mission is to make the renderer, not garden the build system... that's why I'm here :) ok?
15:53.09andrecastelobut if there's a problem, someone can revert and isolate the problem easily, right?
15:53.38andrecastelohm ok, understood :)
15:53.41``Erikwell, build system problems are going to fall into two categories for the most part
15:53.50``Erikeither a file wasn't added, which we can spot and fix trivially
15:53.57``Erikor an entire build path wasn't added, so it's no big deal
15:55.07``Erikyou managed to add the entire msvc9 thing, that'll be by far the hardest thing you SHOULD ever do with auto* and svn... it should all be easy now :)
15:56.28``Erikyou've already won the region championship in football, now you're just playing a pickup game against some friends ;)
15:57.10``Erikprods his stupid laptop until subversion installs
15:57.53andrecastelo``Erik: hehe, nice analogy :b
15:59.42``Erikfigured it was appropriate :D and I even de-americanized my statement, ya probably woulda been confused if I said soccer ;)
16:03.31``Erikso you've looked over, um, viewdummy.c and mebbe viewedge.c or viewweight.c (or even view.c) ?
16:04.10``Erikany of the view files will give you an idea of how things go, viewdummy.c lists all the stubs you need to fill
16:04.16andrecasteloactually i'm right now trying to "butilize" the patch i made for viewarea
16:04.45andrecastelobut regarding the mlt, i had an idea when i read the Developing Applications with BRLCAD presentation
16:05.05``Erikok, that presentation is still mostly pretinent I think
16:05.47``Erikthe viewarea patch should just need a few minor mods to work with libbu, uhmmm, using bu lists, the vmath.h macros for vector ops and, uhhh, the bu i/o shtuff
16:06.12``Erikit looked "good, but not quite our tribe" when I skimmed it :) so just little stuff, iirc
16:06.23andrecastelohm ok, understood
16:06.56andrecasteloi wasn't being able to compile using the bu_lists so i improvised :S
16:07.27``Erikother than that, the only reason I didn't commit it myself was because I'm not familiar with the quirks and uses of that certain program, I'm hoping brlcad will step in and verify it doesn't make things weird for users :)
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16:33.54``Erik<PROTECTED>
16:40.23``Erikaaaand, upgrade macports to see what in my subversion heirarchy is out of date, weeee
16:43.36andrecastelohehehe, is that the laptop you were talking about buying last week?
16:44.31``Erikno, I didn't end up buying one, I got another one from work
16:44.38``Erikanother 17" macbook pro
16:44.59``ErikI still might buy a 13" macbook, but I have a temporary reprieve from NEEDINg to
16:54.53CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31252 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc9/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Fixed a bug that corrupted the file and caused an error when the used tried to edit a project's property or tried to access a header file.
16:55.15andrecastelos/used/user
16:55.16andrecastelo:S
17:02.01``Erikhum, warnings in g_hyp
17:03.12``Erikgot the temp cranked up nice and high on this laptop with all these builds, no crashes or anything O.o
17:05.48andrecastelohey ``Erik what you think about struct mlt_app having a struct application * app ?
17:05.59``ErikI think it kinda needs to?
17:06.06``Erikoh, wait
17:06.17andrecasteloyeah, i was thinking the same thing
17:06.27``Erikuhmmmm, you do need a 'struct application' somewhere, uhm, I have no issue with it being nested
17:08.25CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31253 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: make rt_functab label a little bigger to fit "hyperboloid" for g_hyp
17:16.30andrecastelook erik, here is my idea - write a function to handle hits and record the hit information in the path structure. The bouncing/reflecting would be handled here, right?
17:17.19andrecasteloif so, initially we can use a fixed amount of bouncing, to make it work and later the function can be expanded
17:17.26``Eriksounds about right
17:18.03``Erikthe hit callback managing some volume of information
17:18.09andrecastelohm ok, so, the rays are shot from the lightsources, right? or i can set up where to shoot the rays from ?
17:18.33``Erikit's bidirectional, so some rays will be shot from light sources and some from the viewpoint
17:18.59andrecastelono, i meant currently supported by rt
17:19.15``Erikand it'll be interesting, since viewpoints can be perspective (single point) or ortho (grid), and "light" is a material attribute on a solid
17:19.49``Erikthe regular phong rt run shoots a ray for each pixel, then at the intersection, it shoots rays to each light source
17:20.05``ErikI'm not exactly sure how all the futzing with shadow rays works out, brlcad would know more
17:29.00andrecasteloview_init() should be called when the rays are starting to be fired, once per path or once per ray?
18:00.00pacman87``Erik: what warnings did you see on g_hyp.c?
18:07.42``Eriklength issue with a static field in table.c (fixed it) and, uhm, a sign issue with an ntohd call on like line 700 or so
18:09.56pacman87the ntohd call is in import5(), and i haven't changed anything there (except var names/types) from when it was g_xxx.c
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18:18.58CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31254 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/g_hyp.c: minor cast fix for ntohd
18:19.16pacman87``Erik: thanks :)
18:19.20``Eriknp
18:19.29``Erikchar -> const unsigned char
18:19.32``Erikfyi
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18:19.52ciccerohi
18:19.58``Erikafternoon, ciccero
18:20.09ciccerothank you madant
18:20.51cicceroi did the 'make' with the -k option
18:20.58``Erikman, I'm gonna get fat :( I made whole wheat english muffins from scratch, I'm popping these things like candy... eaten 12 already O.o I'm gonna poo like mad later
18:21.05ciccerokeep goin
18:21.34``Erik-k means "don't stop on failure", it doesn't make the build magically work, it just doesn't abort as soon as it sees a failure
18:22.05ciccerobut when i try to install, i have the same error
18:22.30ciccero.libs/librt.so: undefined reference to `TclReFree'
18:22.48pacman87ciccero: did you do ./configure --enable-all?
18:22.52``Erikconfigure with --enable-all
18:23.28cicceroyes
18:23.34cicceroi did that
18:23.54ciccerobut have the error ".libs/librt.so: undefined reference to `TclReFree'"
18:25.35madantmake clean and do a ./configure --enable-all --prefix=install dir
18:25.44cicceroi am installing with the -k option skip the no working module
18:29.53cicceroi am using the default install dir "/usr/brlcad/". I need specify the path?
18:36.21madantmake clean once and then run ./configure --enable-all
18:38.24ciccerook madant i'm doing clean, configure and make right now.......
18:58.05ciccerothank you.......soooooooo much.
18:58.35cicceronow i have a working brlcad on my machine
18:59.00cicceroi need to do the "clean" before
18:59.24ciccerothank's for all.....
19:04.14madant:) have fun with 7.12.4
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20:46.13CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31255 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/table.c: the label is intentionally supposed to be some brief short-hand so call it a hyp (there are two hyperboloid primitives, ehy is th e other)
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21:52.28brlcadthinks it'd be cool if madant would re-render his graphs with a uniform scale, overlay the two data sets
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22:48.24brlcadandrecastelo: your viewmlt duplicates a main()
22:51.29CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31256 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c: file header doesn't match file name, use sh/template.sh for adding new files (or sh/header.sh for adding a new header). remove main since it's presently described as an rt app (which provides a main())
22:52.17brlcadif you need your own main different from the one in src/rt/main.c, then your tool probably doesn't belong in src/rt as that makes it more like nirt from a structural perspective
22:53.27andrecastelobrlcad: i was going to change that, but you were faster than me :B
22:54.00andrecasteloalso, i renamed mlt_main.c to viewmlt.c but i used template.sh to create mlt_main.c
22:54.35CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31257 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/Makefile.am: disable default compilation of rtmlt until it works, can be manually compiled with 'make rtmlt' in src/rt
22:54.48brlcadandrecastelo: k, I figured -- that's what the parenthetical was for ;)
22:55.01brlcadyou can fix the header by just removing it, and then running header.sh on it
22:55.09brlcad(or edit the two lines)
22:55.13brlcadnit pick of coruse
22:55.25brlcadcommit early, commit often ;)
22:56.05brlcadis about to make hundreds of commits
23:00.26andrecasteloshould i change the name of mlt_defs.h too ?
23:01.08brlcadup to you
23:02.49PrezzKennedyhowdy brlcad
23:02.55brlcadhowdy
23:02.57PrezzKennedythe interns keeping you busy?
23:03.08brlcadnot yet :)
23:03.51PrezzKennedyi wanted a hot one to help staff the IT department...
23:05.52brlcadsetting the interns on fire isn't usually recommended
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080602

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080602

00:21.21PrezzKennedybetter than setting the servers on fire
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02:03.38poolioUh oh. Am I going to be set on fire? :(
04:38.58brlcadpoolio: only if you're lucky ;)
04:57.22pooliosteps under a ladder
05:27.59brlcadyeesh, thousands of anonymous ftp connections
05:28.50brlcadfirewalls the idiot with a .in addr
05:53.15poolioruh roh.
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07:33.57d_rossbergbrlcad: thank you for your reply to my C++ question
07:34.47d_rossberg(both e-mail and rikers.org ;-)
07:36.50d_rossbergi figured out that starting line 12 with "class " helps too, but i didn't know that the other compiler choice was "value"
07:37.45d_rossbergthe thing what confused me was that it works if i replace "Type" in line 12 by "int"
07:39.10d_rossbergtherefore it looks like the gcc needs some help above a certain level of complexity
07:42.26clock_d_rossberg: are you bringing C++ into brl-cad?
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07:57.16d_rossbergclock_: i would like to do it, however this problem arised in my "real" work
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14:10.55``Erikwait, what? we're NOT allowed to set the interns on fire? damnit
14:54.21brlcadd_rossberg: yeah, that was a pretty hard problem .. took me a while to figure out what was up
14:54.39brlcadI rewrote it a couple times testing out what the compiler was doing
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14:59.08brlcadwasn't until I narrowed it down to http://brlcad.org/~sean/tmp/typename.cpp that it became obvious
15:02.23d_rossbergbrlcad: it turns out that (nested) templates need special attention in writing portable code
15:05.28brlcadnods
15:05.36brlcadthat's something I used to run into a lot with VC6
15:06.06brlcadwould often have to unnest them to get VC6 to work with them at all if it was a complex structure
15:06.41d_rossberg(another issue is that MSVC allowes temporary objets as non-const reference parameter)
15:06.53brlcadoh yeah, that's a big one
15:07.30brlcadour windows devs for bzflag are *constantly* passing in temp objects that have to be fixed :)
15:07.51brlcadrather frustrating as it's convenient for them, but invalid per standard
15:08.02brlcadfortunately the fix is easy
15:08.31brlcadjust sometimes rather hard to identify as the errors messages are rather obscure sometimes
15:11.39d_rossbergyes, it was a "multiple choice" error message (i.e. something like "do you mean method A or B")
15:13.02brlcadon the Mac, it would actually compile just fine but result in a run-time error -- memory corruption accessing non-existant temporary memory in the called function
15:13.17brlcadusually std template types
15:14.09pacman87hi d_rossberg, brlcad
15:14.14brlcadhowdy pacman87
15:14.25brlcadhow goes the progress?
15:14.30d_rossbergmoin moin pacman87
15:14.38pacman87fixing up import/exprort for the hyp now
15:14.51brlcadpacman87: I'm about to move some files on you, restructuring librt
15:15.01brlcadspecifically the primitives
15:15.07pacman87how so?
15:15.15brlcadthey're moving into a subdir
15:15.35brlcadshouldn't be a problem, just let me know if you run into any problems with your changes
15:15.44pacman87ok, thanks for the heads up
15:16.20brlcadif you commit frequently, the impact may even be nil
15:17.57brlcadthe work is a precursor for the new brep() callbacks for each primitive that poolio is working on, given the guts to those callbacks are C++ they need to be separated out
15:18.22brlcadaside from just being useful organization for librt
15:18.36pooliomornin' brlcad et al
15:18.44pacman87morning, poolio
15:19.47pooliopacman87: how's the summer of code going? Has it officially started yet?
15:19.54pacman87yeah, last week
15:20.29pacman87my dev log, and some pretty pictures, are at http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Pacman87
15:21.51pooliobrlcad: is the rt raytracing going to give me a place to put the brep code?
15:22.01pooliobrlcad: I can't read. Woopsy :)
15:25.35CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31258 10/brlcad/trunk/ (80 files in 5 dirs):
15:25.35CIA-21BRL-CAD: beginning of librt restructuring that places all primitives into a 'primitives'
15:25.35CIA-21BRL-CAD: subdirectory. keeping it non-recursive make for performance reasons and further
15:25.35CIA-21BRL-CAD: breakouts and restructuring is on the way in support of a new brep() callback
15:25.35CIA-21BRL-CAD: for all primitives. still have to move nurbs and nmg sources.
15:36.18CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31259 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 4 dirs): make bot.h a public header for now since at least one tool (bot_shell-vtk) requires the header for the bot_specific data type as well as related functions
15:37.19pacman87two brlcad commits later and i'm still compiling :(
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15:49.11brlcadpacman87: and I'm not anywhere near done
15:51.30louipcwhoa
15:51.47brlcaddoing it piecewise just to show the progression, make sure each step works piecewise, and *then* get to the actual break-up
15:52.44brlcadseriously need to disable dependency tracking .. it's getting annoying to have to depclean each time
16:00.31CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31260 10/brlcad/trunk/ (51 files in 4 dirs):
16:00.31CIA-21BRL-CAD: move the nurbs/bspline surfaces into src/librt/primitives/nurb using 'nurb' as
16:00.31CIA-21BRL-CAD: the dir instead of 'bspline' for now even though the table.c shorthand for the
16:00.31CIA-21BRL-CAD: primitive's name is bspline. table.c's label name seems to be the
16:00.34CIA-21BRL-CAD: inconsistency.
16:09.13CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31261 10/brlcad/trunk/ (51 files in 4 dirs): follow suit and move all of the nmg sources into src/librt/primitives/nmg
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17:20.51starseekercrosses his fingers and does a svn update...
17:40.13pooliobrlcad: so are you done destroying everything yet? ;)
17:40.26``Erikhe never is
17:40.36poolio``Erik: ouch.
17:40.40``Erik:D
17:41.05``Erikwatches the compiles keep chugging
17:43.26pacman87apparently my hyp always returns 0 from shot()
17:45.22poolioIt's invisible!
17:45.41pacman87negative index of refraction?
17:46.24``Erikthere are real materials with that property now O.o
17:47.18pacman87what's the easiest way to print to console in the middle of a rt?
17:47.55``Erikhow do you mean? like inside of the shot function or something?
17:48.00pacman87yes
17:48.05``Erikbu_log() should do it
17:48.41``Erikprintf or fprintf should work, too... 'nirt' might be worth messing with to debug a shot routine
17:49.53pacman87ok, thanks
17:57.17pacman87i dont' think my shot() is even getting called...
17:58.09brlcadyup, never done
17:58.33``Erikfire up gdb and put a breakpoint on your function?
17:59.03pacman87yeah, that's what i'm trying now
17:59.04brlcadpacman87: prep has to define the bounding cube or it will be an early-exit miss
17:59.25brlcadmake sure prep is right (compare to others)
18:00.16pacman87i stored the bounding rpp in stp->st_min/max[X/Y/Z]
18:00.38``Erikneeds both the aabb and bounding sphere, I think
18:00.52pooliobrlcad: so, is there going to be a brep/ folder?
18:01.03poolioor would it be in primitives?
18:01.18brlcadthere are two things ..
18:01.31brlcada brep primitive will live in a primitives/brep/ folder
18:01.49brlcadthere will eventually be one folder for each primitive with the routines for that primitive
18:02.24brlcadyou're adding an additional brep() routine to each of those folders
18:02.37brlcadit'll be more clear, I'm working on arb now
18:02.49poolioah ok. So I don't need to write any of the arb schtuff?
18:07.57CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31262 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 5 dirs):
18:07.57CIA-21BRL-CAD: recant, make the subdir match the table primitive type so s/nurb/bspline/ for
18:07.57CIA-21BRL-CAD: the directory name. keep the files named as nurb_. it's a minor point, but the
18:07.58CIA-21BRL-CAD: short name can't be easily renamed so go with the table label.
18:07.59brlcadyou're going to be adding a file for *each* primitive, including arb
18:08.25brlcadthat's the main point, to have a new hook function
18:08.58pacman87gdb shows neither rt_hyp_prep() nor rt_hyp_shot() are being called
18:09.47pacman87i set a breakpoint for rt_hyp_plot() too, to make sure i was using gdb properly, and it caught that one
18:16.14``Erikdo your bounding box and sphere make sense? is the ray actually intersecting both?
18:19.09brlcadpacman87: set ft_use_rpp to 0 in table.c, see if prep is called
18:21.04pacman87brlcad: cant' find ft_use_rpp in src/librt/table.c
18:21.06brlcadyou can single step a ray easily with nirt or rt -Q
18:21.27brlcadpacman87: that's because you just use the value there
18:21.40brlcadlook at the rt_functab structure
18:22.05brlcadyour primitive is hooked into an rt_functab table with a slew of settings and callbacks
18:24.50pacman87where is rt_functab defined?
18:25.04brlcadraytrace.h
18:28.49starseekerbegins to see how it's very nice to have cmake generate cross-platform build logic...
19:00.27CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31263 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Added bu_copy_argv, bu_copyinsert_argv and bu_free_argv.
19:01.49*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@74.86.45.130)
19:05.18CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31264 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/rtif.c: Modified f_nirt() to pass along the use_air setting.
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19:19.06brlcadhrms and looks at bob's argvage
19:21.10pacman87after changing it to 0, prep() still isnt' called
19:25.06brlcadhum hum hum.. that implies you have something else wrong of course -- like the primitive ID doesn't match the table entry or something
19:26.23pacman87do i need it in idmap[]?
19:26.37pacman87there's a lot of ID_NULLs in there
19:35.12brlcadshouldn't need to
19:35.26brlcadthat's a v4 to v5 conversion table
19:38.41pacman87how do i check in g_hyp.c now? i'm getting a 'svn: file not found'
19:39.17pacman87will an update move my files to the right place?
19:48.16CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31265 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/table.c: implemented import5() and export5(); corrected the bounding radius in prep()
19:50.37CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31266 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/g_hyp.c: try 2: implemented import5(), export5(), and describe(); corrected the bounding radius in prep()
19:50.41pacman87there we go
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19:51.05pacman87hi clock_
19:52.15clock_hi
19:54.06pacman87make[2]: *** No rule to make target `g_arb.c', needed by `g_arb.lo'.  Stop.
19:55.33pacman87i'll try "make clean && ./autogen.sh && ./configure --enable-all && make"
19:55.46pacman87i'll check back in 30 min
19:57.51CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31267 10/brlcad/trunk/ (25 files in 3 dirs): Mods to use "struct ged" instead of "struct rt_wdb"
20:14.09brlcadpacman87: that's dependency tracking, you make have to "make distclean" and rerun from autogen.sh
20:14.32pacman87make clean isnt' enough?
20:14.43brlcadnot usually
20:15.04pacman87you couldn't tell me this 15 minutes ago :)
20:16.20brlcadis not sure he likes breaking up the g_ files
20:18.50louipchow are you breaking them up?
20:18.51brlcadabout a half-hour of tedius refactoring, increases the compile time by more than an order, and the benefit seems wibbly on the surface for just the C funcs
20:19.08brlcadbasically putting each callback into it's own file
20:19.58louipchm
20:20.00brlcade.g. http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/md128a9b
20:20.51brlcadso I think it works really well for objects like nurbs, nmgs that have dozens of files
20:21.34brlcadkinda torn now, need separation for the C++ code
20:22.35louipcoh yea
20:22.59brlcadwill have to think about this some more
20:27.27pooliobrlcad: Keep me posted :)
20:28.24pooliomkdir src/librt/brep_cpp_crap
20:30.42louipcdarn nurbs
20:54.20pacman8736m12.754s to recompile everything
20:55.34CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31268 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (CMakeLists.txt Makefile.am): Add reference to argv.c
21:01.15pacman87/home/timothy/brlcad/brlcad/src/mged/rtif.c:1788: undefined reference to `bu_copyinsert_argv'
21:01.15pacman87/home/timothy/brlcad/brlcad/src/mged/rtif.c:1791: undefined reference to `bu_free_argv'
21:01.28starseekerfixed by bob in that last commit
21:01.48pacman87thanks, starseeker
21:01.59starseekernp - building myself at the moment :-)
21:02.37pacman87how long does it take you to build all, and on what hardware?
21:05.13louipctakes me like 1.5 hr on 866MHz pIII
21:26.45CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31269 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/nirt.c: no argument supplied to bu_log string variable - command strings are printed below so assuming this should be just a label. Fixes crash with bus error for nirt -X 2 debug case.
22:14.46brlcadthe machines I compile on range from about 3 minutes to 3 hours to compile with --enable-all
22:15.02brlcadof course tends to prefer the 3 minute system
22:15.28brlcadcurious to retry ccache or distcc now that "make fast" is in place
22:18.35brlcadokay, I think I have a workable compromise wrt to the primitive breakouts
22:26.06pacman87brlcad: what hardware is the 3 minute on?
22:33.22``Erikthinks a 12 core altix with something like 16g ram and a big 15krpm scsi raid
22:33.27``Erikmebbe 32g
22:33.49``Erikit's a beastly machine, if it weren't for sgi's twisted version of suse, it'd be nice :)
22:34.56``ErikI think I'm running ~4 minutes on a quad core opteron running fbsd8 with sata disks, but I'm not building png, tcl or tk with that
22:36.49pacman87on another note, i'm really confused about rt
22:37.01pacman87i added breaks for rt_ehy_prep
22:37.27pacman87and rt_ehy_shot; and did rt on a simple ehy, and neither on caught
22:37.44pacman87s/neither on/neither one/
22:38.48``Erikhrm, did the breaks take?
22:39.02pacman87yeah, gdb said they were resolved
22:39.17pacman87and adding a break on rt_xxx_plot works fine
22:39.19``Erikusually I have to break main, start rt, then add library breaks and continue, since stuff in librt does not exist before rt is executed
22:39.26``Erikhrm, weird
22:40.00pacman87and if i try a ctrl-c and 'where' in the middle, i just get into tcl stuff
22:40.05``Eriktry making geometry with both a sphere and and an ehy, break both preps and run it to see if both are being caught?
22:43.15pacman87neither prep is caught
22:44.51``Erikdoes it render them ok?
22:44.54pacman87yes
22:45.55pacman87http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m4340ef3c
22:46.29pacman87that's my gdb run, i did ctrl+c in the middle of rt
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080603

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080603

01:54.56*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:25.05pacman87anyone else have an idea as to why rt fails on hyp?
02:32.51CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31270 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/sfiles/ (csv-gap.nrt csv.nrt): tweak formatting in csv output
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04:02.52brlcadpacman87: are you running rt from inside mged?
04:03.44brlcad(heh) .. dont' do that :)
04:04.01brlcadrun rt directly on the unix command line, or via gdb, but not via mged
04:04.39brlcadmged kicks off the rt binary, so none of your ray-trace symbols can get caught by gdb because it's in mged not rt
04:07.26brlcadgdb lets you set the break points simply because mged is also reliant upon librt, but it doesn't use it for ray-tracing, it uses it for geometry services (I/O, editing, etc)
04:11.30brlcadandrecastelo: woot, thx for the update :)
04:12.13andrecastelobrlcad: sorry for taking so long
04:12.59brlcadno problem, it's progress :)
04:18.37brlcaddon't be shy about those "week #1" questions for the first phase
04:18.59brlcadthat's all pretty staple brl-cad services work
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04:57.44pooliobrlcad: so did you figure out what to do with librt yet? :)
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08:48.56clock_Sorry for offtopic
08:49.01clock_Anyone been in San Francisco?
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11:43.49CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31271 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/table.c: enable asc2g for hyp (elliptical hyperboloid of one sheet)
11:44.53d_rossbergpacman87: you have to initialize hyp in rt_hyp_prep (it has to point to some valid memory)
11:45.38d_rossbergclock_: 10 years ago
11:58.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r31272 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: Corrected calculation of obliquities
12:19.59clock_d_rossberg: is it like a crowded city?
12:29.59d_rossbergno, it's a very nice city, more european (e.g. in opposite to Los Angeles)
12:32.04clock_What do you mean with more european?
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12:35.55d_rossbergit has a centre, some historic buildings, i.e. somebody from europe should feel comfortable there
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12:38.50clock_Los Angeles has no centre and buildings are modern?
12:43.33d_rossbergno centre in "european" meaning: in the centre district you will find some high buldings (e.g. the round one from "Independence Day") but this is a place for business and not a tourists
12:45.42d_rossbergthe touristic centres are spreaded over a large area, e.g. Hollywood boulevard, Disnayland, UniversalStudios, museums, etc.
12:46.19d_rossbergthe area of Los Angeles (and its satalite cities) is gigantic
12:47.24d_rossberg(sorry, "sattelite")
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12:57.12clock_Is it true that Los Angeles has high air pollution?
12:59.17brlcadyep, you can see it from a distance quite clearly
12:59.41brlcadLA really is *huge* in comparison to most cities .. it's very much spread out
12:59.44clock_And San Francisco?
12:59.50brlcadcompletely different
13:00.03clock_Does LA reach to the shore? Like Santa Monica etc.? Is it already part of the LA?
13:00.06brlcadonly thing they have in common is they're both in the same state
13:00.12``Erikeven sf doesn't have the same center construction as most european cities, afaik
13:00.32``Erikvery few US cities have the notion :(
13:00.48``Erikit's all "new", built more for cars than anything else
13:00.55``Erikas far as I can tell :)
13:01.06``Erikbeing able to walk to anything I wanted to go to in japan was weird
13:01.16clock_brlcad: query
13:03.29``Erik*buildbuildbuild*
13:03.47``ErikI don't like how asc2g and g2asc have all primitive logic in them, they should delegate that to librt imho :/
13:04.12``Erikunless asc is deprecated (it seems very tied to v4)
13:17.15starseeker``Erik:  I think asc is how we store models in svn
13:17.32starseeker``Erik:  That does sound weird that there is primitive logic in them
13:17.45``Erikit is
13:18.09starseekeruses g2asc and then asc2g to remove size creepage
13:18.15``Erikbut unlike cvs, svn stores xdelta info for binaries, ... just seems like something that needs to be addressed
13:18.45``Erikheh, do we need an fsck_g to fix/compress? :D
13:19.08starseekerI asked brlcad about that a while back - can't remember what the answer was...
13:19.24``Erikwas probably "sure, go do that!" or something of that nature :)
13:19.28brlcadthere already is a command to compress not that it's coming to me at the moment
13:19.30starseekerI think it was when I was doing my earth model - it was waaaaay bigger than a few spheres and arbs needed
13:19.44brlcadthere are three or four places in the code that have per-primitive logic
13:19.50brlcadthat would be good to merge back up into librt
13:20.01brlcadjust hasn't happened
13:20.03brlcadrefactor ftw
13:20.18starseeker``Erik:  "go do it" ;-)
13:20.24``Erikheh, that word still sends chills down my spine :/
13:20.50``Erik"refactor"... watching a group attempt to replace things like thinking, planning, design, etc with "refactor it"... *shudder*
13:21.52brlcadasc conversion, mirror, typein, soledit to name a few
13:22.32starseekermakes note to find the compress command
13:25.49brlcadi think it's garbage_collect
13:25.52brlcador something like that
13:26.13brlcadit's a dev command, not a user command
13:44.05*** join/#brlcad karlprof-cgiirc (n=d5a61112@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:46.51CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31273 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob modified mged nirt command to include air in results (now passes the -u 1 option to nirt)
13:46.55brlcadhello karlprof-cgiirc
13:47.41karlprof-cgiirchello, I am afraid I am abusing your fantastic cgiirc service because my pc is being odd
13:49.16CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31274 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/argv.c: fix the header, this isn't vls.c
13:49.29brlcadkarlprof-cgiirc: no problem, though I can't see how you'd "abuse" it :)
13:49.58brlcadit doesn't allow connections to anywhere but channels relevant to our needs
13:50.52CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31275 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/argv.c: unnecessary headers
13:51.04karlprof-cgiircI need to send some queries out to helpful people :) relating to aforementioned oddness
13:51.35brlcadah, k
13:51.38karlprof-cgiircApologies for any inconvinience or unnessessary strain on your web server
13:51.47brlcadheh, it's no strain
13:52.05brlcadit could probably support hundreds of users beofre being an issue
13:57.36``Erikheh, yeah, all the strain is coming from other services, and once brlcad gets off his duff and migrates, the machine will be overpowered anyways :)
14:03.09karlprof-cgiircCheers for the connection, all done
14:03.11*** part/#brlcad karlprof-cgiirc (n=d5a61112@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:04.00brlcadwonders why a staffer would need our cgi:irc
14:06.42``Erikpheer incoming r00tage?
14:28.21brlcadcoffee break!
14:28.32CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31276 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (5 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
14:28.32CIA-21BRL-CAD: sample of new primitive organization where each primitive will be housed in a
14:28.32CIA-21BRL-CAD: subdir named by it's table label. the intent will be to keep all of the table
14:28.32CIA-21BRL-CAD: hook functions together in a main xxx.c file with structures and interface
14:28.33CIA-21BRL-CAD: properties separated into an interface header, then allowing whatever other
14:28.33``Erik<-- hands brlcad his mug :D
14:28.35CIA-21BRL-CAD: source files, documentation, and supporting materials to live in that directory
14:28.37CIA-21BRL-CAD: with the primitive. this new organization should better support the addition of
14:29.05brlcadnot quite as good as the 2005 solid modeling, but still pretty good/useful .. some interesting papers
14:29.26brlcadslaps self for knowing better re it's
14:32.17``Eriknamed by it is table label
14:32.31``ErikI'm gonna sick crazy daisy on you to learn you up some apostrophes
14:32.38``Erikapostrophe's :> *smirk*
14:33.51prasad_howdy
14:34.03``Erikhttp://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif
15:29.21brlcadhowdy prasad_
15:30.12brlcadwoot, there's the money
15:30.43brlcadgreat paper on computing volume and surface areas using ray sampling that minimizes sampling errors
15:47.31pacman87brlcad: thanks for the info re: mged/rt; i'm tracking down the problem
16:17.17brlcadpacman87: np
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17:57.35CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31277 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: Added code to copy nirt sfiles. Modified code that copies g_xxx.c.
18:18.51CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31278 10/brlcad/trunk/ (103 files in 37 dirs): mass (initial) restructuring to place each primitive into their own subdirectory. the g_ files are stripped of their prefix, using a directory and 'main' interface file name that matches the table.c label.
18:21.39pooliowowza.
18:25.37CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31279 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/Makefile.am: g_bot_include.c is in the bot dir
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18:35.43andrecastelogood afternoon people :D
18:35.49pacman87hi andrecastelo
18:35.49CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31280 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/nsis/brlcad.nsi: Several minor mods to get things working again.
18:35.57andrecastelohey pacman87
18:36.24pooliohowdy andrecastelo, pacman87
18:36.28poolioWasn't there a 3rd gsocer?
18:36.33andrecastelohowdy poolio
18:36.41pacman87poolio: there's 4 of us
18:36.49andrecastelothere is mafm
18:36.58poolioAh yes. Who's the fourth?
18:36.59andrecasteloand the fourth one i don't know the nickanem
18:37.04pacman87homovulgaris?
18:37.07andrecastelonickname*
18:37.10poolioIf he's not in IRC he must not exist ;)
18:37.41pacman87that was the old one, switched recently and i don't remember the new one
18:37.54andrecasteloiirc, brlcad talked about someone who communicated exclusively through the mailing list, don't know if he/she got accepted
18:38.55pacman87andrecastelo: yeah, that was the libpg proposal
18:38.59pacman87and it was accepted
18:39.23andrecastelois checking wiki
18:39.25pacman87http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2008
18:40.05CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31281 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc9/tclsh/library/: add missing library dir for distcheck
18:40.06brlcadhowdy andrecastelo
18:40.11brlcadhow goes it?
18:40.12andrecastelohowdy brlcad
18:40.48brlcaddawn's other/better nick is madant ;)
18:41.15pacman87brlcad: i'd recognize it if i saw it, but not off the top of my head
18:41.17brlcadhe's since been in a couple times, but yes tends to prefer e-mail
18:41.27andrecastelobrlcad: i'm fine, you ? :D
18:41.42brlcaddawn == homovulgaris == madant
18:42.13brlcadandrecastelo: doing great! .. I love going to conferences, and I'm at solid modeling all this week
18:42.27brlcadgreat for getting work done, networking, and inspiring new ideas
18:42.33andrecastelobrlcad: oh, so i've heard :D
18:42.38andrecasteloand how's ny?
18:43.58brlcadmildly warm outside today, but nice .. SUNY Stony Brook is way up long island .. other than the roads, it's far up into the woods and pretty quiet
18:45.27andrecastelopretty nice, though i always liked the cold, i'm actually starting to miss the warm days
18:56.33``Erik<-- scratches his head at the new src/librt ugliness O.o :)
19:04.58brlcadstill not complete
19:05.15brlcadhave to break out the interface
19:05.28brlcadand then start migrating the various table files
19:07.17poolioHeh, my dad teaches at SUNY
19:07.31poolio(not that one...he teaches at the upstate medical one in Syracuse)
19:08.51pacman87maybe it's just me, but i have a feeling my raytracing is wrong: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/hyp_rt.png
19:10.42CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31282 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/Makefile.am librt/Makefile.am): add private headers xxx.h and ged_private.h missing from dist
19:11.34pooliopacman87: looks perfect to me ;)
19:11.49pooliopacman87: what WM is that?
19:11.55pacman87kde
19:12.59pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/hyp_rt1.png
19:13.07pacman87there's another one, different angle
19:16.50pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/hyp_rt2.png
19:19.20brlcadhehe
19:19.27pacman87...yeah
19:19.29brlcaddoesn't think those are "quite" right :)
19:19.41pacman87but it's not crashing on my anymore ;)
19:19.46brlcadprogress!
19:19.57brlcadand it ray-traces something
19:20.14brlcadyou could be one +/- character away from completion ;)
19:20.17pacman87i find it odd that all three have that ellipse in the exact same spot
19:21.11brlcadyeah, that is interesting
19:21.29brlcadthe caps should be fairly easy
19:21.36brlcadat least compared to solving the roots for the sheet
19:21.54pacman87first one was -a 0, second was -a 90, and last was -a 45
19:22.09brlcadeasier said than done, of course, though the code should be nearly identical to that for the epa and tgc
20:13.47CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31283 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/librt/librt.vcproj: It looks like torus/torus.c changed to tor/tor.c
20:15.16CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31284 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Temporarily remove rtmlt from solution until it builds.
20:30.59CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31285 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/view.c: Updated the usage string to include -U.
20:49.07CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31286 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (34 files in 33 dirs): update the headers for the new file names, use something better than g_ for the doxygen group
20:49.42CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31287 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/doxygen_structure: rename g_ group to primitives
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23:31.37andrecastelobrlcad: does this answers a few of the "week #1" questions? http://brlcad.org/wiki/Example_Application
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080604

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080604

00:23.50yukonbobhello, cadheads
00:24.06pacman87hi yukonbob
00:24.15yukonbobwhat's happening, pacman87?
00:24.24pacman87um, not my raytracing
00:24.36yukonbobfeh...
00:24.44yukonbobtry solidworks ;)
00:24.59pacman87i mean my primitive's raytracing
00:25.06yukonbobknows -- is joking
00:25.14pacman87i dont thing solidworks does hyperboloids, anyway
00:25.26yukonbobhits google
00:26.06yukonbobmy Net connection is working about as well as your raytracing :P
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00:29.50yukonbobsees something about developing hyperboloid drill bits in solidworks in summaries...
00:46.39pacman87progress: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/hyp_rt3.png
00:46.51pacman87still not sure why the bottom plate is showing, though
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01:36.16brlcadpacman87: woot, nice progress!
01:36.29brlcadmy guess would be sort order
01:36.45brlcadthe in-out segment points you add to the result should be sorted
01:37.40brlcadif you have the segment inverted so you present the back-facing bottom plate exit point before the side-wall entry point, you could see that kind of effect
01:38.33brlcadcourse could be something wrong with the middle surface.. those normals are whack
01:46.54andrecastelohey brlcad .. the rt applications consist of view[app].c + worker.c + do.c + opt.c + main.c, right? what functions are specific to the view file, in this case viewmlt.c? i've reorganized the declarations and the mlt project file to be compliant with this system
01:50.18brlcadandrecastelo: there's about a dozen view*.c example rt apps that show the various call-backs you have to hook
01:51.27andrecastelobrlcad: ok, I'll look for them, thanks :)
01:53.57brlcadI believe a lot of it is covered in http://brlcad.org/w/images/3/3d/Application_Development.pdf too
02:10.02andrecastelobrlcad: yeah but it kind of confused me, because it has main() and etc. But i already solved the problem :D
02:13.43brlcadyeah, the part that is relevant is the "RTUIF" that it refers to , the view callbacks it refers to
02:13.56brlcadthose are what are in your viewmlt.c file
02:14.44brlcadthe tutorial starts from one level deeper, and also describes how to implement the rt front-end in addition to view interface
02:18.57CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31288 10/brlcad/trunk/ (misc/win32-msvc9/rtmlt/rtmlt.vcproj src/rt/viewmlt.c):
02:18.57CIA-21BRL-CAD: Merged definitions from mlt_defs.h into viewmlt.c. Added functions to make
02:18.57CIA-21BRL-CAD: viewmlt.c a rt compatible application. Added missing files (worker.c, do.c,
02:18.57CIA-21BRL-CAD: main.c and opt.c) to win32-msvc9/rtmlt/rtmlt.vcproj. It should build correctly
02:18.57CIA-21BRL-CAD: now.
02:19.11andrecastelomlt_defs.h is useless now :S
02:20.38brlcadso remove it?
02:20.51brlcadnothing wrong with adding/removing as needed as it evolves :)
02:20.58brlcaddon't forget the Makefile.am if you remove it ;)
02:21.06andrecastelookay ;}
02:23.21CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31289 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/ (Makefile.am mlt_def.h):
02:23.30andrecastelo:S
02:24.18andrecastelobrlcad: sorry, can i revert that to add a decent commit message?
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03:15.35brlcadandrecastelo: heh, nope -- you can never go back!
03:15.48andrecastelo:O
03:16.40brlcadif you really really want to leave a note, make a ws commit and annotate in the commit message that it is for r31289, etc
03:16.41andrecastelows commit?
03:16.46brlcad~ws
03:16.49ibotws is probably short for workstation.  White Space, or the country code for Western Samoa
03:18.10andrecastelook, i'll do a western samoa commit ;)
03:20.18brlcad:)
03:22.01CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31290 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c: WS Commit. In the last commit (r31289), removed mlt_defs.h and edited src/rt/Makefile.am accordingly. Definitions in mlt_defs.h are now in viewmlt.c.
03:30.26pooliobrlcad: so is src/librt restructured as you wanted now or is there still more?
03:42.32pacman87so i fixed my bottom plate, but the normals are definately off
03:48.15louipc~pacman
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03:48.54pacman87louipc: ??
03:50.15louipcjust wondering what ibot had for that
03:50.29louipcpacman is my package manager :D
03:50.43pacman87~pacman87
03:51.19louipcbesides most being most popularly known as a video game
03:51.30pacman87~pacman87
03:51.30ibotwell, pacman87 is not a package manager
03:51.38louipcerrr - a most
03:52.09louipcnope
03:55.09brlcadpoolio: pretty much
03:55.45brlcadnot that any restructuring should hold anyone back from coding... :)
03:56.09IriX64code blue, code blue :)
03:56.24brlcadthe idea for the brep routine, though, will be to add a cxx file to each primitive for a brep routine (similar to the nurb routine)
03:56.30brlcadhello IriX64
03:56.36IriX64regards
03:56.40louipcobama wins
03:56.55brlcaddid you ever talk to your friend about licensing on his bolt program?
03:56.58pooliobrlcad: jah. I just wanted to commit either the sph or cyl brep stuff, just to get an idea of where things would be going :)
03:57.17IriX64is it still there?
03:57.19brlcadgetting the subdir was the main point
03:57.27IriX64haven't looked at that site lately
03:57.32brlcadso maybe something like xxx_brep.cpp for each
03:57.40brlcadIriX64: has nothing to do with the site
03:57.52poolioOk. and you just want the brep() routine?
03:57.54brlcadyou showed me a bolt creation program that he made
03:58.15IriX64i *thought i got the code from clock, can't find him now
03:58.22brlcadno, it wasn't clock
03:58.31IriX64yes it was
03:59.11IriX64mmm maybe another clock?
03:59.59brlcadwhy would you insist it was?
04:00.09brlcadyou don't even seem to remember what I'm talking about
04:00.23IriX64remeber some guy going by that nick sending it to me
04:00.40brlcadwell, clock's name isn't Jamie
04:00.44IriX64pastebined it
04:01.03IriX64now im confused
04:01.32brlcadforget it, you apparently didn't care enough to follow up
04:01.34brlcadi'll just delete it
04:01.41IriX64sorry man
04:02.25IriX64gotta test my client, want it to msg nickserv when i start up
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05:28.26CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31291 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: add a tcl+itcl sanity check given how we can't build our version of incrTcl with a system 8.4 .. it's both or neither.
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05:30.52brlcadevenin prasad1
05:34.08pacman87success! https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/hyp_rt6.png
05:47.09pacman87and here's a shell: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/hyp_rt7.png
05:55.34pacman87unfortunately, i had to pull all of the generalized code, so now it only works if your main axis is aligned with Z :(
05:56.01pacman87but at least it works
05:56.13pacman87goodnight all
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10:21.59mafmallo
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12:35.31brlcadpacman87: awesome!
12:36.06brlcadnew primitives are always exciting :)
12:36.56brlcadhowdy mafm, how goes it?
12:40.19mafmtired, but other than that OK :)
12:53.08mafmdo you support "make distclean"?
12:53.26mafmit's starting to configure things before removing them
13:05.27brlcadyes, of course
13:06.09brlcadwhether it has to configure before cleaning depends on the dependency tracking and edit states of files (timestamps)
13:06.39brlcadif you did an svn update, it would have to regenerate and rerun configure before it could perform the clean
13:07.33brlcadautomake design, not our doing
13:07.38alex_jonithat "bites" sometimes.. it's always best to do an distclean before updating
13:08.22alex_joni(if there was a long period of time since the last update.. and lots of infrastructure changes)
13:09.25brlcadthe faster more general rule I usually suggest is if you see configure.ac or any Makefile.am get updated, run: sh autogen.sh && ./configure --enable-all && make clean && make
13:09.55brlcadthat'll generally complete more quickly and reliably than trying to force a distclean, and should give the same result
13:10.19brlcadsince distclean can actually fail under some update/edit situations
13:15.48brlcadonce you get more familiar with what the Makefile's are doing and how the timestamp updates work, you can get away with the localized depcomp rebuilds and automatic reconfigurate
13:16.06brlcadbut few get to the level of understanding ;)
13:16.32mafmnot very likely, yep :D
13:16.41mafmwas cmake considered?
13:16.45brlcadsure
13:16.55brlcadit's used for some of the windows build
13:17.13brlcadto redo the entire build system with it though is a pretty big effort
13:18.06``Erikcmake adds a new end user dependancy, no?
13:18.14brlcadwith pretty minimal payoff -- what we have works and works rather well, robust, familiar, etc, just painful to the autotool newbies (which tend to be in the minority)
13:18.32brlcadyeah, it's not nearly as prevalent
13:19.04mafmI meant mostly as it seems to reduce compilation times, not sure if that is an issue for devels
13:19.10``Erikyeah, I think we have two "guru" grade automake weenies (if I'm allowed to claim that for myself, heh) who'll fix the newbs mistakes if they're hacking
13:19.24brlcadnah, that's a petty benefit frankly
13:19.31``Erikgood structuring of an automake system will be pretty damn quick
13:19.33brlcadcompilation time is dominated by the machine
13:19.52``ErikI'm tempted to flatten the src/adrt directory for the half second speed boost O>o
13:19.53``ErikO.o
13:20.26``Erik(also; we have "make fast" which speeds things up a fair amount... gmake -sj13 fast)
13:21.20mafmwell dunno, but it takes something like 5 minutes to run "configure" on my system
13:21.37``Erikwhat is your system? the only thing I've seen close to that slow is windows O.o
13:21.38brlcadwe'd have to do those same checks with cmake
13:21.43brlcadthat problem doesn't go away
13:21.55mafmamd64, 1gb ram, 2 years old
13:21.57brlcadit's just not called a "configure" script
13:22.29``ErikOS is a bigger impact, I think
13:22.59``Erikwindows is ass slow, fbsd is smoking fast, linux is almost as fast as fbsd, mac is somewhere between bsd/linux and windows
13:23.04mafmDebian GNU/Linux, random :P version
13:23.38brlcadit's I/O intense, if you have slow OS or slow disks, it'll be teh suck
13:23.39``Erikweird, does it have any obvious stall points? or are you feeding it funny options? mebbe if you "export CFLAGS=-pipe" ?
13:24.47brlcadsuspects a bit of exaggeration too, probably closer to 3 minutes on that system
13:25.18brlcadit reports the time, how long exactly?
13:25.21``Erik"time sh configure" :)
13:25.29brlcadit's in the summary
13:25.41``Erikhow's the conf, burly? just one big win paper so far?
13:26.32``Erikhrm, hendrix (manic depressive) into old soundgarden (jesus christ pose)... my computer wants me to be active today O.o
13:30.42brlcadthere have been several really good papers and posters
13:31.39mafmI'm not doing anything special... it might not even be 5 minutes but instead 2, dunno
13:32.26mafmsome of the projects where I worked recommended a full clean build every morning, and things like these are time-consuming, but that's not the case for all projects of course ;)
13:32.29brlcadthere was another good one yesterday that dealt with extracting an implicit model from CT scan data for capturing blood vessels, neural connectivity, and other "tube networks" from a friend down at Texas A&M
13:33.01``Erik<-- tries to avoid touching configure.ac or primary headers as much as possible to avoid that step
13:33.08brlcadmafm: those instructions are recommended only to those that don't learn how the tools work but just use them as tools
13:33.17``Erikthat's why I tend to be conservative about changing or adding directories :)
13:33.24brlcadyou can get away with much much faster rebuild times if/when you know when you really need to do what
13:34.33``Erik(also; 3/(24*60) isn't that big)
13:35.13mafmElapsed configuration time ...........: 1 minute, 4 seconds <- plus unknown time generating makefiles
13:35.18brlcadheh
13:35.37brlcadthat includes makefile generation time
13:35.58mafmhmm? it starts to generate them after that
13:36.19``Erikthen try "time sh configure" ?
13:36.56mafmhttp://rafb.net/p/xYG7fn39.html
13:37.07mafmok there I go ``Erik
13:37.41``Erik<-- thinks it's a non-issue *shrug*
13:38.11``Erikbetter integration with system tcl/tk/[incr]/etc would be a more useful build "optimization"
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13:46.45brlcador realizaing it's less than 1% of a given workday and instead optimizing something that is more likely going to make a more significant impact ;)
13:47.02``Erikneat http://media.threadless.com//product/282/zoom.gif
13:47.28brlcadyou probably spend more time going to the bathroom, you'd save more time "holding it" ;)
13:47.44``Erikuhm, 0.06944% :)
13:47.58``Erikof a 24 hour period, anyways
13:48.46brlcad~3.0/(8*60)
13:48.46ibot0.00625
13:48.56brlcadeven for an 8 hour
13:49.30``Erikwonders if he can concoct a horrible command to embed a simple lisp interpreter in ibot O.o :>
13:49.42brlcadthis discussion was enough time to run configure more than 20 times over :)
13:49.59``Erikthat'd be a hell of a hack, and I imagine I have things to do that other people consider far more important O:-)
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13:50.52brlcadmultitasks listening to a guy talk about extracting the hippocampus automatically from brain scan data
13:51.36``Erikwants to keep his hippopatumus in his brain for the time being O.o not ready for mgmt training (matter removal)
13:52.37``Eriklaptops can be dangerous at conferences, I got bored at vis/vast and wrote a trivial raytracer... I got bored at javaone and, uh, read lots of webcomics I think
13:53.49archivisthmm brain removal is that CAZ computer aided zombies
13:53.58clock_lol
13:54.10clock_And Jay Adams is DAZ. Drug Aided Zombies.
13:54.25``Erikheh, amusingly, I saw "shaun of the dead" last weekend :D must just be a zombie week
13:55.10``Erikso it looks like clinton isn't going to make it to the primaries
13:55.38clock_``Erik: how can the mankind appreciate a trivial raytracer when the Military-Industrial Complex has brought us the ultimate non-trivial raytracer, BRL-CAD?
13:55.45clock_I hope Obama makes it
13:56.00clock_He's attractive and he's a minority.
13:56.31``Erikuhm, I can appreciate generating images from a model file after an hour of coding from scratch?
13:56.44louipcI hears something about hilary wanting to be VP
13:57.02clock_Who has better chances Obama or McCain?
13:57.03``ErikI wrote a pong game (in one day), too, is that completely useless because other people have written better ones?
13:57.05``Erik:)
13:57.26louipcthat might be a smart move if what they say about people dropping Hilary for McCain is true
13:57.34louipcor dropping Obama
13:57.50clock_they shouldn't drop Obama Obama has nice thick lips
13:57.52louipc``Erik: fun exercise?
13:58.00clock_Sorry for being superficial but aren't the US voters as well?
13:58.10louipcdunno
13:58.38clock_We need to destroy the terror with all available force
13:59.07clock_Who's not with us is against us (oh yeah isn't the guy in the TV right?)
13:59.09``Erikwith the choice between a woman and a black man on the democratic ticket, a lot of bigots are going to cement their vote on the white guy :/ (but it seems to me that the bigots tent to vote republican, anyways, so mebbe it won't be a big factor)
13:59.33``Eriks/tent/tend/
13:59.39clock_what does bigot mean? I know bigotry is something bad, but not sure what it actually is
14:00.17clock_Obama's trousers should accidentally drop in some TV show
14:00.23clock_Then he would get the women
14:00.29clock_the women's votes
14:00.48louipchaha
14:00.50``Erikthe US is far too repressive and anti-sex for that
14:01.06``ErikO.o
14:01.06clock_McCain would then try as well but he would lose all the women
14:01.17louipcwardrobe malfunction eh?
14:01.35``Erikwell, no matter what, it'll be a step up... how can you go DOWN from bush? :>
14:01.37``Erik*duck*
14:01.41mafmtimes: http://rafb.net/p/Re3Sxc27.html
14:01.58louipcwe could dig up stalin
14:02.27clock_They say Obama spent his childhood and adolescence in Honolulu
14:02.31clock_I wonder if he can surf
14:02.32``Erikheh, sibera, guantanamo, whatever :)
14:02.56clock_I hope if he's a president he requests the CIA torture manuals
14:03.09louipcmafm: how about the make?
14:03.10clock_and changes "waterboarding" to "wakeboarding"
14:03.45``Erikmafm: I don't think you're taking the cache abilities into consideration with your timing... also; you've spent way more time worrying about it than a month of just doing it in regular dev mode :)
14:07.05``Erikhttp://rafb.net/p/Re3Sxc27.html
14:07.11``Erikbleh, mouse puke
14:07.25``Erikhttp://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/funny-pictures-anteater-debugged-laptop.jpg
14:07.27``Erikthere we go :)
14:10.16mafmlouipc: make is in the making
14:10.47louipcholy anteater
14:13.11``Erikorganic debugger :)
14:13.31mafm``Erik: I'm not worrying about that... I just asked if you had though about cmake or something similar alternative, for me it has a lot of advantages but that's not the point :)
14:13.42mafmand I'm running the time tests just because you asked
14:15.25``Erikwe've talked about cmake, a couple other "new" build systems, if you check out an older version, it uses one called "cake", but automake was picked up because it was better than cake for handling diverse platforms with minimal developer concern, ubiquitous and "standard", and we had solid knowledge of it *shrug* BRL-CAD only went auto* 4.5 years ago, converting it was my second task :)
14:20.10mafmI see
14:27.48mafmsame old error :S   http://rafb.net/p/8K7VU536.html
14:28.56``Eriksh configure --enable-all --enable-optimized --prefix=/place/it/goes
14:29.43brlcadthe refree error is not fixed without --enable-all yet
14:29.53``Erikafaik, the issue is with funky cpp paths, it's picking up $(top_srcdir)/src/other/tcl/generic/regex.h when it SHOULD be getting /usr/include/regex.h
14:40.57brlcadmafm: yeah, I'd agree that it has several advantages, just performances is a minor one in the big scheme of things .. the biggest is a unified build environment that spans to windows
14:41.47brlcadi wouldn't mind cmake if someone actually fully duplicated our current build system in it .. but I just don't see that happening anytime soon, it'd be weeks of full-time effort if not more
14:42.14mafmsame error, maybe I should make clean before reconfiguring with --enable-all?
14:42.26brlcadyeah, have to make clean
14:42.50brlcadTcl_ReFree is an unresolved symbol.. meaning you have a .o object file somewhere with references to it
14:43.09brlcadso just running make again doesn't invalidate that .o
14:43.14``Erik(if you know which files, you can just remove the specific .o and .lo files, but it's easier to just make clean)
14:43.35brlcadfrom make's perspective, there's nothing to do
14:45.33mafmit's librt, but after removing it complained about the file not being present, so I just issued the make clean
14:46.14brlcadthat all boils down to learning what the tools are doing :)
14:46.25brlcadthere actually is deterministic behavior, but it takes a while to learn the tools
15:29.31CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31292 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/adrt.h: bump (c) info
15:31.25CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31293 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/ (load.c load.h slave.c): use a struct instead of indexing a void*
15:34.04CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31294 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/adrt_struct.h: use a struct instead of indexing a void*
15:34.06``Erikyeah, helps if I commit the struct I'm using, too
15:55.21pacman87getting there: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/hyp_rt8.png
15:55.35pacman87time to go fix my normals again
15:57.01starseekernice!
15:57.36starseekershould finish up mucking with nirt and do something cool like a new primitive...
16:07.49pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/hyp_rt9.png
16:09.00pacman87now i have to figure out the new primitive file structure so i can commit
16:09.08starseekerCooooool :-)
16:10.07pacman87i had to pull all of the speed enhancements and start over, so prep() is pretty useless atm
16:21.59brlcad~pacman87++
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16:23.10brlcadpacman87: how about elliptical caps?
16:24.09brlcadhowdy andrecastelo_
16:29.01brlcadpacman87: there was a pretty decent paper on sweeps about an hour ago, I'll see if I can get it to you :)
16:40.16PrezKennedyhowdy brlcad
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16:58.02mafmI guess that I should put my code in a different directory... any suggestion?
17:14.19pacman87brlcad: elliptical caps: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/hyp_rt10.png
17:18.49pacman87one question: how are tangent hits counted?  is the same point used for seg_in and seg_out?
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17:30.36andrecastelohowdy brlcad, what's up?
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17:32.14andrecastelohowdy ``Erik :)
17:38.37brlcadmafm: yours is probably the most "distinct" given the external dependencies it's going to require
17:38.59brlcadpacman87: hah, you're on a roll :)
17:39.14brlcadthat's pretty f'n sweet
17:39.49pacman87only at that view though, other angles are giving me flipped normals
17:41.33mafmso... src/weirdo then? :)
17:44.31brlcadso... maybe not in the same module, gimme a min to rummage
17:45.54starseekerspots what might be another nirt bug and gets out his sledgehammer...
17:49.00CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31295 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/adrt.h: screw the 'version year'? how about just say what adrt means
18:00.15starseekerlooks at direct_output, decides it is raising too many questions , and decides to add it to the bug list...
18:01.59brlcadnirt cmd line example against one of the db g's would be useful
18:03.59starseekerof the bug?
18:04.01starseekercan do...
18:05.41brlcadfinally! .. found a way to reproduce the _TclReFree error from here for non-enable-all
18:06.46mafmw00t
18:09.22starseekerhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d64313679
18:09.36starseekerthat's the first issue...
18:09.48starseekerthe second didn't reproduce, so maybe it's not an issue after all...
18:10.06brlcadyou mean the "file test.cs is" ?
18:10.12starseekeryep
18:10.20starseekerit ate the last charater
18:10.20brlcadoff-by-one somewhere
18:10.28starseekeroh, it gets better
18:10.32``Erik<-- pats his belly
18:10.34brlcadprobably strcpy
18:10.41starseekerif you type dest default (no space) you get back stdout
18:10.44brlcader strlcpy
18:11.12starseekerif you do it WITH the space, you get a file called default
18:11.54brlcadsame problem
18:11.56starseekercould it be the original authors intended that you would have to have a space after a name?
18:12.17starseekerthought dest default without space would create a file called defaul
18:12.28brlcaddefault == defaul vs "default " == default
18:12.43brlcadyeah, so it's probably a copy happening between those two checks
18:12.43starseekerbut default doesn't == defaul
18:12.48starseekerit equals stdout
18:13.06brlcadso it does the strcmp before it gets trimmed
18:13.13starseekerah
18:13.31starseekerdigs a bit...
18:13.36brlcadotherwise, no .. no way needing a space was intended
18:13.59brlcadin face the command interpreter should trim all whitespace
18:14.07brlcad(should but probably doesn't)
18:15.05prasad1brlcad, where are u?
18:15.13brlcadnew york
18:15.26brlcadlong island
18:16.03prasad1sig conference?
18:22.57brlcadacm solid and physical modeling (spm) just ended, now starts ieee international conference on shape modeling (smi)
18:23.13brlcadjoint conference
18:24.27brlcadspm was pretty cool .. the second best paper was a fast implementation of nurbs surface-on-surface evaluation as well as fast xyz to uv mapping
18:24.43brlcad(which is what I'm currently working on)
18:24.55starseekersweeet
18:25.57brlcadwill need a few days to get through just the top half-dozen most interesting/useful papers
18:28.42CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31296 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libtie/ (tie_define.h tie_kdtree.c): Move some macros around, eliminate some others...
18:30.10CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31297 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/parse_fmt.c: nirt's dest command was chopping off the last character in the filename string
18:30.13starseekergot it
18:30.33starseekerlooks like it isn't trimming whitespace at the end, just at the beginning... should probably fix that
18:32.14brlcadyep
18:32.45brlcadif you have a vls, there is a bu_vls_trimwhitespace
18:32.55brlcader, bu_vls_trimspace()
18:33.10starseekerwishes he had vls...
18:33.22starseekernirt didn't seem to like vls much
18:33.34starseekerI suppose it didn't exist when it was written or some such?
18:34.03brlcadpossible, they're both pretty old
18:34.22brlcadsometimes just devs that don't know about the available facilities
18:34.30starseekercould be
18:34.48brlcadit is a big package after all, you only know what you encounter unless you go looking for something specific
18:35.29brlcadand most resist at first because it's a simple operation to "just do it" yourself
18:35.40brlcadonly recent that some of the facilities were even documented in HACKING
18:35.50brlcadjust knowledge one acquires
18:35.55CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31298 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c: fix mlt_hit prototype
18:36.28starseekeryep.  It hurts most in the file-reading side of things - this I can probably throw in a quick hack for now and vls-ify later
18:38.05starseekerchecking for whitespace isn't too hard, fortunately...
18:41.08brlcadyeah, something like while(isspace(*cp)) cp++; while(isspace(cp[strlen(cp)-1])) cp[strlen(cp)-1] = '\0';
18:41.27CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31299 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Add code to prevent raytrace control panel being destroyed by user. Decactive panel instead of destroy.
18:42.04starseekerah nice
18:42.26starseekeroh yeah - heh
18:42.35starseekermanaged to hard crash his mac yesterday with archer
18:42.46brlcadneat
18:44.02starseekerreally likes archer as compared to mged - maybe libged will help bring it closer to feature parity with mged...
18:47.27starseekercrud - what's the opposite of Ctrl-s on the command line
18:47.57starseekerAt, nevermind - Ctrl-Q
18:48.11starseekerCtrl-q ratjer
18:48.13starseekerrather
18:50.26brlcadinteresting conference .. every single attendee has a laptop at the moment
18:51.11pacman87brlcad: take a picture
18:55.05brlcadheh, alas no camera for the lighting or good view to capture everyone
19:00.54CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31300 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/parse_fmt.c: Add quick fix to avoid whitespace at the end of a name - this whole function (OK, most of nirt) should be reworked to use vls at some point.
19:07.46starseekernotes the problem with documenting tools is that you keep having to fix the tool to do what it is supposed to do...
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19:10.35starseekergood for the tool though...
19:13.15mafmgoing home now, see you tomorrow
19:22.23brlcadyep, maintenance burden .. that's (part of) why there is a lot of consideration when adopting a new external dependency
19:22.36brlcadthose are things you can't easily fix or maintain
19:23.11brlcadand the importance of refactoring the bigger the project gets (for BRL-CAD it's huge never-ending requirement)
19:29.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31301 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: If parentClass is not set, set it to Toplevel regardless of platform.
19:39.08starseekerdecides to see if the archer changes avoid the hard crash...
19:39.45brlcadstarseeker: is it user-visible?
19:40.14starseekeryou mean the dest fix?  I suppose so in the sense that if someone tries it they'll get the correct filename now...
19:40.27brlcadi.e. did a release go out with that bug in the last release
19:40.38starseekeralmost certainly
19:40.51brlcadthe it "almost certainly" ..
19:41.02starseekerthe it?
19:41.10starseekerparse error ;-)
19:41.23brlcadthen it "almost certainly" .. deserves a note
19:41.28starseekergotcha
19:41.50brlcadwould be good quick sanity check to be certain
19:42.22starseekerk.  I've been needing to build a release tarball for comparision purposes anyway...
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19:53.44brlcador find a machine with a /usr/brlcad installed
19:54.26brlcadprobably did make the release, the string clamping changes happened recently, but before the last release
19:56.53CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31302 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bio.h: account for badness in the Tcl regex header. for this to work, bio.h has to come after the include for regex.h of course, but then regex.h is a system header so it should be before bio.h regardless.
19:57.20CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31303 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/regionfix.c: regex.h is a system header, include it before bio.h
20:01.30brlcadthere, that should fix the tcl_refree error
20:01.41starseekerdoes happy dance
20:03.26starseekerYep, it's in 7.12.4
20:03.46starseekerupdates news file, then gets back to attempting to crash the mac...
20:07.03CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31304 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Fixed nirt's dest command to use the full supplied filename string instead of chopping off the last character - whitespace is also handled after the string as well as before.
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20:08.59CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31305 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: check for strcasecmp so BLT has it properly defined, avoid duplicate symbols at link time
21:16.21*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=timothy@71.170.63.120)
21:39.50pacman87another pretty picture: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/hyp_rt12.png
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21:46.51pacman87hi clock_
21:48.46clock_gu]
21:48.48clock_hi
21:52.50andrecastelopacman87: looking really good! nearly finished with the hyperboloid?
21:53.03pacman87well, rt from within mged still fails
21:53.12pacman87and i still need tess() and curve()
21:53.19pacman87but it's getting there :)
21:54.56andrecasteloin this pace you will finish the whole gsoc project before the end of june! :D
21:55.47pacman87it's been a week and a half, and the revolve/sweep will be a lot more math-heavy
22:03.33CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31306 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/hyp/hyp.c: prep(), shot(), and norm() updated: moved most of the calculations from prep() to shot() in order to insure correctness, and updated norm() to account for the changed private data stored in the hitpoint
22:03.42pacman87now everyone can play with it!
22:15.58pacman87rt is wrong in the very specific case when you're viewing from 45 degrees off of the main axis in the direction of of the major axis of the ellipse
22:18.07andrecastelo(typo at line 22?)
22:28.22``ErikO.o
22:29.58andrecastelohowdy ``Erik
22:30.25``Erikhow's it going, andre?
22:30.53andrecasteloi'm happy viewmlt.c is now working together with main.c and the other rtuif files :)
22:31.51``Erikyeah, gotta get a grid set up and start doing your bidirectional work now :)
22:32.05andrecasteloyup
22:32.46``Erikuhm, for saving files, I added nifty capabilities in libbu (image.c), but the only rt to use it right now is uhm, viewedge.c... or you can dump straight pix and it'll get cleaned up later
22:35.52andrecastelohmm i see.. interesting.. it will be nice if i can test the bidirectional work as i go, instead of going blindly, right?
22:36.14pacman87andrecastelo: good catch on the typo, thanks.
22:36.49andrecastelopacman87: np, didn't want to mess with the file you're working on
22:37.12andrecastelo(that's why i didn't committed immediately etc)
22:37.15CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31307 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/hyp/hyp.c: change group to primitives and file to hyp.c
22:37.23pacman87the group needed changing too
22:37.55pacman87wait, i still didnt fix the typo :(
22:38.34andrecastelo``Erik: the grid you're talking about, is the final image matrix?
22:38.47``Erikyeah, it IS nice to have immediate feedback
22:38.48CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31308 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/hyp/hyp.c: typo fix, thanks andrecastelo
22:39.31``Erikevery pixel in the output image has at least one primary ray shot from it, ya gotta set up the initial ray information (with appropriate matrix-fu)
22:43.51andrecastelo``Erik: i see.. the ray information will be set in the application structure, depending on the run, something like that? taking turns between a pixel and a light source?
22:44.24CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31309 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewedge.c: Fixed typo in a comment section (algorythm -> algorithm).
23:02.05``Erikthat's up to you, andre
23:02.46``Erikheh, I just updated and did a double-take at viewedge.c being updated before looking at irc :D rtedge needs some major reworking
23:05.58andrecastelo``Erik: hm, what about something like an adapted view_pixel()? it would do something like this - pick the first pixel, set the origin of the ray to the camera, shoot the ray, record the points; set the origin of the ray to the light source, shoot a ray and record hit points; then test if this is an acceptable path
23:06.35andrecastelo(like not going through a wall or not connecting properly, still need to put a little more thought in this)
23:07.32andrecastelothen, if it is a good path, save the path, and mutate the pixels, adding the contribution of this path to the image
23:07.48andrecastelo(iterating through all the pixels)
23:08.14andrecasteloafter that, mutate a point in the path.. then calculate the contribution of this path to all pixels
23:08.23andrecastelowhat do you think?
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23:13.02andrecastelobrb
23:23.41``Erikoi, twingy
23:24.43``Erikandre, I actually don't know the algorithm well enough to comment on that... I can look it up tomorrow, but what I'm primarily providing for you is knowledge of BRL-CAD, C and general project management :)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080605

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080605

00:15.22CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31310 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/hyp/hyp.c: uncomment code in shot() to fix problem when raytracing from 45 degrees off of the height vector towards the major axis of the ellipse
00:16.26pacman87raytracing from command line should be perfect now
00:17.38pacman87but i have no clue why rt from within mged fails
00:46.56andrecastelo``Erik: sorry for the delay, had to take care of some things :S
00:49.24andrecasteloi've been taking a look at main.c and the file parsing will be done there, i'll study how the info about the file should be passed from main.c to viewmlt.c
01:10.44CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31311 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/do.c: Fixed a typo in a comment section, at line 720, automaticly -> automatically.
01:23.50andrecastelo``Erik: i have a doubt - here in do.c (line 768), view_2init receives 2 parameters, but in viewdummy.c and in the application development pdf, view_2init has only one parameter - struct application.. so, why is it different in do.c ?
01:59.29starseekerraises eyebrows at via's openbook CAD files for a laptop case
02:02.20starseekerAh, foo - they're proe
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02:26.40andrecastelowb ``Erik :D
04:10.44brlcadandrecastelo: technically, the callback has two parameters, but most of the rtuif apps don't use the second one (framename)
04:12.12brlcadso if you want to be correct, you can/should add the second parameter .. could add it to all of them -- only three of the dozen or so have it
04:12.51brlcadeven more interesting would be to put it to use in all of them in some useful way
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04:18.18brlcadpacman87: does rt from various -a -e work?  other than invoking the installed rt, all that's different from within mged is that it passes the active view
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08:49.27d_rossberg``Erik: your change on rt_functab makes the brlcad.dll interface incompatible to previous versions, i.e. it won't work with my viewer any more
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09:27.03mafmhai
09:27.22andrecastelobrlcad: i see.. what about the grid setup - i've been taking a look and it seems it is done in do.c and worker.c, how does/should it link to viewmlt.c ?
09:27.30andrecastelooh hai, mafm!
09:29.05mafmméquié!
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12:11.56brlcadd_rossberg: ahh, I wondered about that
12:18.21brlcadi'll undo it, but it'll have to change for the other callbacks that get added at some point too -- maybe for 7.14
12:22.01d_rossbergbrlcad: my viewer isn't BRL-CAD's main application but what about your customers? they have to recompile their applications too
12:22.45CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31312 10/brlcad/trunk/ (TODO doc/deprecation.txt include/raytrace.h):
12:22.45CIA-21BRL-CAD: undo the size change to rt_functab's ft_label element in order to preserve
12:22.45CIA-21BRL-CAD: binary compatibility with previous release, but leave deprecation notices in
12:22.45CIA-21BRL-CAD: place so it can be changed eventually since it will need to. fortunately
12:22.46CIA-21BRL-CAD: ft_label didn't need to grow, but there will need to be new callbacks soon.
12:24.46brlcadd_rossberg: it's a valid important point -- it's more just a matter of how and when the changes occur
12:26.44brlcadour "main customer" performs synchronized releases with us, so for them it's not an issue -- it's more a problem for all the rest of our customers, though, so good to keep track of (and avoid if we can)
12:27.25brlcadfor rt_functab, I've actually wanted to remove that table altogether, at least it's exposure as a public callback container
12:27.44d_rossbergi got the problem with the RT_HIT_NORMAL macro
12:28.05d_rossbergit uses the ft_normal callback
12:28.49brlcadnods
12:28.57d_rossbergBTW: i was able to display a hyp in my viewer :)
12:30.18d_rossbergit isn't perfect yet, but it's well on the way
12:32.27brlcadheh, cool :)
12:32.49brlcadhe is making great progress, I'm excited
12:33.38brlcadthere was a good paper at this conference I'm at about performing sweeps that (after he finishes hyp) I'll see if I can get to him
12:34.50brlcadit was an interesting application trying to form smooth sweep paths for hearing aid devices that have a tiny pressure canal that gets swept through
12:38.33CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31313 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: the echos were unintentional debug, removed
12:39.34d_rossbergcan this paper be included in the documentation on the brlcad web site?
12:41.55CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31314 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: primitives are one level deep in their own dir now
12:44.01mafmbrlcad: did you think about the place for my code yet?
12:45.25brlcadd_rossberg: portions of it probably could, would have to contact the author for the whole thing
12:45.42brlcadmafm: yeah, remind me in a bit :)
12:46.43mafmok
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13:20.11``Erikheh,brlcad beat me to the fix :)
13:20.31``Erikwonders if changing those to bu_vls would be overkill
13:34.53starseeker``Erik:  you mean nirt?  well, maybe - it seems cleaner though
13:54.53``ErikI meant the raytrace.h issue, actually
13:55.01``Erikthe strings in the functab
13:56.45``Erik/t BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling - Do Not Fold, Spindle, or Mutilate.
13:56.48``ErikO:-)
14:07.22``Erikhow do you bury an old programmer?
14:07.34``Erikface down, nine edge first
14:10.10pacman87brlcad: ae works from command line.  "./src/rt/rt -a 45 -e 30 ~/brlcad/test/hyp-test.g grp.g" gives http://brlcad.org/wiki/Image:Rt_hyp.png
14:11.37pacman87d_rossberg: what "isn't perfect" about hyp in your viewer?  tess() and curve() are still stubs, if that makes a difference
14:11.42``Erikneat
14:12.32``Erikare your hyperbaloids solid? like, do you have a plate thickness on them or are they naturally solid and you're doing subtractions?
14:12.42pacman87the flat elliptical endplates were boring, so i made shells from subtraction
14:12.55``Erikok, cool :)
14:13.25``Eriknow for the scary part; can they be modified in mged with the "sed" command? :D
14:13.40pacman87hmm, haven't tried
14:13.49``Erikthat was the hardest part when I added metaballs, edsol.c is... interesting.
14:14.16pacman87i havent' changed edsol.c, so your answer is probably no
14:15.55pacman87mged> sed h.s
14:15.55pacman87mged> rt_nul_xform unimplemented
14:15.55pacman87transform_editing_solid failed to apply a matrix transform, aborting
14:16.11pacman87so, not yet :)
14:16.18``Eriksrc/mged/edsol.c is where most of that is
14:16.48``Erikat least your primitive doesn't have a dynamic amount of information like pipes and metaballs do :)
14:17.42d_rossbergpacman87: the hyps aren't solid: they look ok from the side but not from the top
14:19.19pacman87d_rossberg: could you post a screenshot?
14:19.55d_rossberglet me see ...
14:20.00pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/hyp_rt13.png
14:20.06pacman87that's what mine looks like
14:27.04d_rossberghttp://ftp.brlcad.org/hyp_1.png
14:28.05pacman87that's a 404
14:29.22brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/~rossberg/hyp_1.png
14:29.32d_rossbergsorry: http://ftp.brlcad.org/~rossberg/hyp_1.png
14:29.58brlcadnotes that the ftp. is no longer needed now that the site is migrated
14:30.37d_rossbergchecks ... ... ... ok
14:31.07d_rossbergfrom top: http://ftp.brlcad.org/~rossberg/hyp_2.png
14:34.21d_rossbergfrom the side: http://brlcad.org/~rossberg/hyp_3.png
14:34.44d_rossbergand a rearly nice one: http://brlcad.org/~rossberg/hyp_4.png
14:40.36andrecastelomorning everyone
14:41.15brlcadhowdy andrecastelo
14:41.24andrecastelohowdy brlcad :D
14:44.09*** join/#brlcad PrezKennnedy (i=Matthew@208.43.126.194)
14:44.58*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@h-67-103-183-185.mclnva23.covad.net)
14:45.14``Erikit's migrated already?
14:45.27prasad_u guys lose power up there?
14:45.34prasad_yesterday
14:45.46brlcadit migrated a couple months ago when the new website went live
14:46.02CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31315 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc9/librt/librt.vcproj: torus/torus.c is now tor/tor.c, updated librt.vcproj.
14:46.04``Erikno, had a good bit of rain briefly, but power both at work and home stayed up
14:48.42``Erikzomfgwtff
14:53.45*** join/#brlcad prasad1 (n=psilva@h-72-245-122-226.mclnva23.covad.net)
15:06.35CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31316 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libutil/Makefile.am: move camera.[ch] to EXTRA_DIST since it's an empty file
15:09.05CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31317 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (10 files in 5 dirs): remove (unused/inconsistent) "magic endian" support, will move to standard endian handling down the road.
15:11.28brlcadmafm: what is your build environment?  (OS, compiler, etc)
15:13.43``Erikponders migrating his personal CVS stuff to subversion
15:17.12``Erikponders getting the blanket out of his car and taking a nap under his desk O.o :D
15:18.53clock_brlcad: aren't you a relative to a singer from the Doors?
15:21.05mafmbrlcad: Debian, GCC 4.2/3
15:23.11CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31318 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (COPYING Doxyfile NEWS): These go away now.
15:23.48CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31319 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/Makefile.am: take removed files out of EXTRA_DIST
15:25.12mafmbrlcad: why?
15:27.41*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@76-10-146-181.dsl.teksavvy.com)
15:27.49CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31320 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/hyp/hyp.c: logic fix in shot() to avoid an incorrect third hitpoint, fixes the endcap problem d_rossburg found
15:31.40mafm(be back in 1h or so...)
16:40.13pacman87anyone have any ideas as to why rt fails on hyp from within mged?
16:40.41pacman87or a way to get a more verbose error message than 'raytrace failed'?
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17:09.49mafmbrlcad: any resolution yet?
17:15.50``Erikpacman: how are you trying to execute it? using the 'rt' command in the mged console, or the 'raytrace' dialog box?
17:16.00pacman87rt from mged console
17:16.02``Erikalso; did you try rendering something like a torus or sphere the same way?
17:16.09pacman87yes, only the hyp failed
17:16.13``Erikweird
17:16.23pacman87i'm runnign mged -c
17:16.45``Erikthe, uhm, rt tcl command executes the dgo_ wrapper which merely does a fork/exec of the rt binary
17:16.56``Erikhum, did you try it in tk mode, too?
17:17.02pacman87tk?
17:17.07``Erikthe gui mged
17:17.17``Eriknon-classic
17:17.27pacman87not yet, trying now
17:18.18``Erikclassic mode isn't high on the priority list for testing when things get changed, so there may've been an odd bug that crept in? *shrug* :)
17:18.58mafm``Erik: you're committing spam!
17:19.02pacman87hmm, non classic works
17:19.09mafm(according to gmail, that is...)
17:19.59``Erikweird :) probably too high a ratio of UPPER ZOMGBUYVIAGRA CASE
17:21.32pacman87hmm, it's working now
17:21.36pacman87even -c
17:21.46mafmmaybe the one removing the GPL
17:21.57mafmeither that or the other to adrt
17:22.44``Erik<-- flips google off
17:22.46``Erik:D
17:24.44``Erik"Happy Birthday! X86 Turns 29.991803 Years Old."
17:25.29pacman87floating point error?
17:26.20``Erikwas a response to "The story is a few days early. I think you may have a rounding bug somewhere." on /.
17:27.21pacman87it's probably preparation for the dupe on the right day :)
17:27.39``Erikhehehe, yeah
17:27.48``Erikbut now that has to be dup'd before the real dup, which will be dup'd
17:30.54mafmprobably related to this:
17:30.57mafmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_FDIV_bug
17:31.16``Erikayup
17:31.36``Erikback with the p75's and stuff, there was a nifty "10 reasons not to buy intel" list floating around
17:32.00mafmcue the jokes http://www.netjeff.com/humor/item.cgi?file=PentiumJokes
17:32.04``Erikand every one was numbered with a funny long number, like 10.000142 8.999232 8.001412223
17:32.20mafm(it's inside there, I think)
17:40.13pacman87how do you do texture mapping for a raytrace?
17:43.30starseekerWell, we have the VIA open book case and the openmoko case now... anybody know of any more such releases?
17:52.12*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-071-043-056.pools.arcor-ip.net)
17:53.41starseekerOh, and of course the NASA space probe stuff...
18:07.42brlcadpacman87: that's where the _uv function matters, you define the uv mapping for the primitive and that in turn describes how a texture is mapped
18:09.19pacman87brlcad: right, i want to test my uv function, but i dont know how to tell it to use a texture
18:10.35brlcadah, create a region with your primitive in it, use the texture shader on it (or stack shader with texture and plastic)
18:11.09brlcadwonders where there is a good texture example
18:12.21starseekerThe earth model might do OK, but a tutorial would be better...
18:12.23brlcadmm.. in the regress/ directory, run make regress .. it'll run its tests and then one of those tests is a shaders test -- there will be a .g (several) that has an object with a texture applied, and there's a shell script that shows how it was made (shaders.sh iirc)
18:14.56brlcadfive step process: it amounts to 1) make primitive (in or make cmd) 2) make combination/region (r cmd)  3) create/convert texture (.pix format, png-pix tool) 4) import pix as object (dbbinary cmd) 5) set shader on region (mater cmd)
18:15.24brlcad4 is technically optional, but it's best for transport
18:15.48pacman87is there an ideal texture image size?
18:15.56brlcadnot really
18:16.07pacman87how does it do scaling/tiling?
18:16.08brlcadstart with default 512x512
18:16.42brlcadthose are controlled when you set the shader, it has parameters for how it scales/tiles
18:16.51pacman87ok
18:17.16brlcadit's a little more obvious via the tcl mged shader gui, but the regress/shaders.sh script will show the base commands
18:17.56pacman87btw, the non-classic mode seems to work for me now
18:18.03brlcadwierd
18:30.37starseekerbrlcad:  z-clipping is now off by default, correct?
18:32.45starseekersees it is in latest svn, thinks he remembers this being done a while back
18:33.26starseekerAh, nevermind - in the NEWS file
18:34.20CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31321 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: remove z-clipping from TODO list - done in last release
18:37.54CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31322 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: gap reporting is in there now as well
18:39.47CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31323 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/sfiles/ (Makefile.am entryexit.nrt): Add nirt formatting option to report exit points rather than LOS.
18:44.52CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31324 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS TODO):
18:44.52CIA-21BRL-CAD: Add several additional built-in formatting options for nirt, specifiable using
18:44.52CIA-21BRL-CAD: the -f option and stored in brlcad's global data directory. nirt -L option
18:44.52CIA-21BRL-CAD: lists available formats, will check directory at runtime instead of compile time
18:44.53CIA-21BRL-CAD: thanks to new uce-dirent functionality. One of the new formats addresses the
18:44.55CIA-21BRL-CAD: TODO request for reporting exit points instead of LOS.
18:45.00``Erikhttp://bash.org/?866133  heh
19:07.01starseekersees bug report on nirt generating messages in triplicate if the shot routines miss - anybody know of a test case for this?
19:17.57brlcadwoot for reduction of TODO
19:18.04starseeker:-)
19:18.41starseekerI hope I understood that request for exit points correctly - if I did it bordered on trivial
19:18.51brlcadI've seen the nirt multiple report bug several times -- it seems to be tied to environments
19:19.02starseekerhmm.
19:19.15starseekernot mac, apparently - i've never seen it here
19:19.22starseekerflips to linux box...
19:20.10starseekerhow goes conferernce #2?
19:20.21starseekers/conerernce/conference
19:20.27brlcadpretty good
19:20.46brlcadsmi's never as good as spm, different focus, but there have been a few good papers/posters
19:20.55starseekercool
19:21.21brlcada really good paper on searching/comparing geometry using wavelets
19:21.29starseekerbrlcad:  Oh, do you know of any docs (good or otherwise) describing the Pro/E file format?
19:21.35starseekersweet
19:21.47brlcadfor translation and orientation invariant comparison mappings
19:22.02brlcadthe "Pro/E file format"?
19:22.13starseekeror formats i suppose
19:22.29brlcadthey're proprietary formats
19:22.43starseekerright - has no one done any work to figure them out?
19:22.53brlcadnothing of value, no
19:22.57starseekerbah
19:23.07brlcadand there are several formats, several versions of formats
19:25.01starseekerwell, that explains why google didn't tell me anything
19:25.08brlcadthe 'main' format of their granite engine is actually also a ".g" file format .. but it's not used very much afaik
19:25.46brlcadmost common are .prt/.asm files -- that's Pro/E's "native" file format
19:26.09starseekeris guessing it's probably pretty nasty... sigh
19:26.57brlcadyeah, and a moving target
19:27.32brlcadbetter would be to focus on one of the formats their engine supports natively that crosses over with other major engines (acis or parasolid)
19:28.04brlcadlike .sat, .iges, .step, .x_t
19:29.05starseekerhow much is lost going from Pro/E to one of those formats?
19:31.59starseekerreflects it doesn't matter too much anyway, in the end...
19:33.24CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31325 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: Blinn blob method is implemented, but weird shelling issue was discovered in metaballs, so update to fix queue
19:35.18starseekeris confused by the BRLCAD_ROOT segfault bug report - on his machines echo $BRLCAD_ROOT doesn't show anything, and yet rt is working fine...
19:36.06mafmwhere should I discuss about the GUI to use, here or in mail with {Robert,Mailing List,...}?
19:39.16starseekerbrlcad:  where did you see the multiple report bug - do you happen to remember?  (linux box didn't show it either)
19:39.33starseekeralso, is it MGED or command line?
19:44.53*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177725958.dsl.bell.ca)
19:46.37IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/irssi.exe  <---- self extracting archive, containg cygwin build of Irssi 0.8.12 and supporting cygwin dll's   :)
19:48.53mafmhmmm, but does it have icons of nude women? [ http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20080605 ]
19:49.06IriX64i'm running it now, do a version of me if you like
19:49.35IriX64user friendly women there's an idea
19:50.18mafmit looks like a contradiction to me
19:50.20mafm:)
19:50.24IriX64heh
19:50.32IriX64telawoman :)
19:50.48IriX64as good as television and telkephone :)
19:50.56IriX64err telephone
19:55.03IriX6404:08 IriX64 [n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177725958.dsl.bell.ca] requested CTCP VERSION from IriX64:
19:55.09IriX6404:08 CTCP VERSION reply from IriX64: irssi v0.8.12 - running on CYGWIN_NT-6.0-WOW64 i686
19:56.07IriX64sorry for the paste
19:57.02mafm:)
19:57.08IriX64:)
19:58.56mafm[mainly] for GSoC mentors: http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Mafm#Log
19:59.08mafmI'll continue checking RBGui tomorrow and trying to fix it
19:59.58mafmI don't know if somebody wants to discuss the GUI to use or leave that decision only to me
20:00.13mafmif anybody wants, please chime in
20:00.19mafmheading home now, see you tomorrow :)
20:00.27pacman87i'll give feedback, if that's what your' lookign for
20:00.53mafmthanks pacman87
20:01.22pacman87though i only really have experience with the solidworks way of doing things
20:01.26mafmthe bad thing is that there's no many choices... it's probably RBGui or the ugly-but-familiar CEGUI...
20:01.48mafmthere're* even
20:02.33mafmk so... see you tomorrow
20:02.45pacman87yeah, i dont know too much about actually coding gui's
20:03.15pacman87but if your lookign for UI design type feedback, i'd be more helpful there
20:03.43poolioI hate almost all GUIs, so I could potentially be helpful critiquing :)
20:07.03brlcadstarseeker: "it depends" for every one of those file formats, there is no golden egg format, importer, or exporter generally speaking .. it's a nasty matrix of tradeoffs
20:07.37brlcadthat's why you avoid it at all costs, or at least do it as infrequently as possible and use formats that preserve the fundamental underlying data format representation
20:07.51brlcade.g. if it's a brep spline surface, keep it as that
20:08.32brlcadeven then, you can still lose data like the assembly hierarchy, material properties, the construction history
20:10.36brlcadstarseeker: I don't recall where, it seems to come and go -- in mged only -- probably a bu_log bug with mged's logging hook and stdout/stderr settings
20:11.04brlcadi wouldn't close it out without testing on an analysts machine on windows and mac
20:11.17brlcadnice ufie.. :)
20:12.44brlcadcegui is only "ugly" if you use the default theme (which we definitely would not) .. it's as ugly as your theme
20:13.30brlcadpoolio: I think all the options suck too .. that doesn't actually usualy help pick one though :)
20:13.47pooliobrlcad: true true
20:16.42pooliobrlcad: ah hey, I just noticed the brep/ folder :)
20:21.18pooliobrlcad: so would the function call be rt_xxx_brep? or just xxx_brep? And it would take the implicit form and convert to an ON_Brep?
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20:33.03pacman87i gave up on texturing; i
20:33.16pacman87... i'm just using checker
20:39.16pacman87why does mged treat del the same as backspace?
21:05.34*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
21:05.59*** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@400exp219.anlgh.org)
21:08.10dliInitializing and backgrounding, please wait...Can't find a usable tk.tcl in the following directories:
21:08.27dli<PROTECTED>
21:09.31dli/usr/brlcad/lib/tk8.5/tk.tcl: no event type or button # or keysym
21:10.12pacman87dli: did you do ./configure --enable-all?
21:13.36dlipacman87, let me find out
21:16.38andrecastelogood evening everyone
21:16.59pacman87hi andrecastelo
21:17.07andrecastelohowdy pacman87
21:18.42pacman87i'm working on fixing my UV coords so the textures aren't stretched oddly for the elliptical cross section
21:19.14dlipacman87, http://pastebin.com/m35787fa7
21:19.23dlipacman87, my configure line
21:21.16pacman87dli: i'm not really all that familiar with brlcad's compile flags, sorry
21:21.44pacman87i just know --enable-all fixed my problems with tcl/tk
21:22.59dlipacman87, I will try the opposite, disable tcl/tk by brlcad, try system tcl/tk
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21:23.26dlipacman87, kind of dangerous though, upgrading system tcl/tk to 8.5
21:24.06louipcbrlcad needs 8.5
21:24.40dlilouipc, yes, I have 8.4 packages installed now, that's why I mentioned I have to upgrade them
21:25.10dlilouipc, upgrading might cause massive damage to tcl/tk based packages, I imagine
21:25.27louipcyea
21:26.32dlilouipc, any idea why tcl/tk from brlcad breaks down?
21:27.05louipcno idea
21:27.20louipcI've always used system
21:27.55dlilouipc, sounds good, I will take the risk and upgrade then
21:28.21louipcI don't have any system critical apps that depend on tcl
21:28.31starseekerbrlcad:  What does the windows version of BRL-CAD do with XStoreColor?
21:28.41starseekerlibdm seems to need it...
21:28.48CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31326 10/brlcad/trunk/Makefile.am: convert (back) to using make variables instead of automake encoded subst variables for all values.
21:28.50louipcthe only things I have are git-gui, some program to write guitar tabulatures
21:28.54dlilouipc, one more question, "--disable-tcl-build --disable-tk-build" would try system tcl/tk, right?
21:28.56louipcand brlcad
21:28.57louipc:D
21:29.53louipcdli: yeah that'd be the only option :D
21:29.55brlcadpacman87: portable bindings on del vs bs is a pita -- if you want to tweak that logic, go for it .. I'll even point you at the files but you'll need to put in a bit of cross-platform testing love to make sure it does sane things
21:30.32louipcdli: but brlcad will try to use your system tcl/tk automatically if it's suitable
21:31.14dlilouipc, so, I don't have to rebuild brlcad indeed, just upgrade system tcl/tk
21:31.18brlcaddli: it doesn't exactly break down, that's a search path failure
21:31.56louipchmm there might be an issue with the tcl extensions though
21:32.01louipcI'm not sure
21:32.07brlcadwhich is a mess the way tcl deals with searching .. there are lots of variables and places for things to go wrong for embedded interpreter apps (which mged is)
21:32.37brlcadwhat was your configure summary?
21:32.49brlcadthat's more informative than the configure line for what it's actually going to do
21:33.13dlibrlcad, which ENV to direct it?
21:33.14brlcadit's near the end of your config.log (not the very end, go back a few pages) if you don't still have it in a scrollback buffer
21:34.04brlcadstarseeker: windows shouldn't be using anything X11
21:34.32starseekercolor.c in libdm includes X11/X11.h without any conditionals
21:34.47starseekerand dm_copy_cmap makes direct use of XStoreColors
21:35.53starseekerIs color.c needed only for X systems?
21:36.35brlcadyou're asking me instead of looking at the build files because... ? :)
21:37.26starseekerhadn't tried reading the windows build files on a mac, but he should have...
21:37.30brlcadthat's something I'd seriously hope nobody wasted neurons on remembering ;)
21:37.56brlcadbut my guess would be that windows doesn't need it
21:38.52brlcadeven without knowing the build files, just trace the functions in that file and what other files call those functions .. if it doesn't have a path to dm-wgl, then it shouldn't get hit
21:39.04starseekerah
21:40.56pacman87i realized why rt failed inside mged before: i skipped the 'make install' step and was running from the build location
21:45.10brlcadheh
21:45.14brlcadthat'll do it
21:46.44CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31327 10/rt^3/trunk/ (40 files in 18 dirs):
21:46.44CIA-21BRL-CAD: mass update of the sources and build system so that this module can be used as a
21:46.44CIA-21BRL-CAD: stomping ground for C++ gui developments. there's still a fair bit of useless
21:46.44CIA-21BRL-CAD: and non-existent code, but the overall structure is more or less a sound
21:46.44CIA-21BRL-CAD: starting point. sync license and version approach with main module.
21:47.14brlcadmafm has a home
21:47.28starseekercool :-)
21:47.37starseekerogre fun?
21:47.43brlcadyep
21:47.56louipcogre!
21:47.56brlcadgoes to dinner
21:48.15starseekerlouipc: you know of it?
21:48.19louipcthat's another package that will give me pain
21:48.27starseekerhow come?
21:48.28louipcyeah
21:48.51louipcI don't know. i tried building a game with it
21:49.12louipcand it's not in my distros repos :(
21:49.38starseekerah
21:49.51louipcseems cool though
21:50.23starseekerhas heard lots of good things about it
22:07.49CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31328 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/hyp/hyp.c: upgrade uv(): change top/bottom mapping from circular to elliptical to match the shape, and change latitude lines to be more evenly spaced around the ellipse
22:21.17pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/hyp_rt14.png
22:25.35pacman87how do you do a shaded checkerboard?
22:28.09*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@208.43.126.194)
22:33.36*** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080606

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080606

00:56.33starseekerpacman87: funky
00:59.08*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
01:07.02pacman87starseeker: i was testing my uv mapping
02:03.17starseekerHmm - considering this is a completely mechanical translation to html, it's not bad:  http://brlcad.org/oed/
02:42.20brlcadpacman87: stack shader, you apply checker and plastic
02:42.28brlcadnice uv mapping
02:45.16pooliobrlcad: Was just wondering where you wanted he brep() routine? In primitives/xxx/xxx_brep.cpp ? And would the routine just be xxx_brep(implicit shape) or something?
02:47.59CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31329 10/brlcad/trunk/COPYING: fix typo, remove trademark section
02:48.16CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31330 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: ws
02:48.37brlcadpoolio: yeah, something like that
02:49.11brlcadspot on for the file and function name, there are more function arguments
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03:12.21pooliobrlcad: ah alright, I'll go ahead and commit sph and cyl
03:12.29poolioAnd just to confirm, no rt prefix?
03:12.35brlcadsomething like rt_xxx_brep(ON_Brep **b, const struct rt_db_internal *ip, const struct bn_tol *tol)
03:13.02brlcadno no, should match the style of the other callbacks, with the prefix
03:13.31brlcadexact params depends on what it ends up needing, but I suspect at least those three -- maybe a model instead of an ip, but same gist
03:14.51poolioAlright, thanks. I'll give it a shot
03:16.14starseekertakes a gander at the firebird docbook manual...
03:16.46brlcadwoo hoo
03:19.42brlcadpoolio: the idea will be (particularly for testing) to have it generate a valid solid ON_Brep that could be passed to mk_brep
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03:21.24brlcadhowdy andre!
03:23.43starseekerraises eyebrows - they're using what appears to be a script based build rather than teaching autotools to do it
03:25.14brlcadyou can always make autoconf run a script ;)
03:25.32starseekertrue :-)
03:25.40brlcadregardless, autoconf probably would just check for tool availability
03:26.01starseekerright.  they have instructions for downloading tools from their website if problems arise
03:27.10brlcadsomethin like a make doc target (have it run a script)
03:33.02pooliobrlcad: How would I handle the bn_tol? Isn't that just for raytracing?
03:33.39starseekerbrlcad:  any idea on that html oed why there are capital As next to the navigation links?
03:33.50starseekerI don't get them when I view the page locally
03:34.26brlcadpoolio: nope
03:34.50brlcadit's for anything that requires numerical tolerancing, which you will undoubtedly run into for some of the primitives
03:36.58poolioWell, in terms of creating the brep from the implicit form, why would you need to deal with the tolerancing? Like, wouldn't you just create a brep that ignored it and creating a very precise representation?
03:47.07brlcadpoolio: sure, ideally .. some of the primitives will still require some computations
03:47.28brlcade.g. arbs
03:49.54pooliobrlcad: I don't really get it :) Could you give an example where you'd need to look at tolerances?
03:50.05brlcadyou'll know it when you get to it :)
03:50.10brlcaddon't worry about it till then :)
03:50.46starseekerbrlcad:  Early thoughts - xmlto uses xsltproc for the "dirty work", which is in turn part of libxslt and uses libxml.  Would it be worth considering adding libxslt, libxml and the necessary style files to the src/other directory?
03:51.12starseekerthe licenses on those two libs are MIT, and they claim to be written in basic C code
03:51.13brlcadeep, I'd sure hope not
03:51.33brlcadthat'd only be if we were including and redistributing xmlto
03:51.53starseekerxmlto is just a script that invokes xsltproc, apparently
03:52.01starseekerwe could probably go direct to xsltproc
03:52.06brlcadokay, including and redistributing xsltproc
03:52.09brlcadsame thing
03:53.13brlcadI see it more like autoconf, libtool, automake, m4, perl, make .. all things we require devs have, but we don't provide them (because they are dev-only)
03:53.48brlcadand devs != any user that might compile brl-cad
03:53.54brlcaddevs is our guys here
03:54.23starseekerOK.
03:54.26pooliobrlcad: ok ok. So basically you shouldn't create say, multiple points if they are all within the tolerance? I was just thinking I'd go ahead and create those points, and that it wouldn't matter :)
03:54.48starseekerwas thinking they might be in the same class as libpng, libregex, libz...
03:54.57brlcadpoolio: yeah, something like that .. you'll end up with rather invalid surfaces and geometry
03:55.24brlcadthat will just cascade failures (and completely invalid geometry due to floating point error alone)
03:55.48poolioWell, will is it really 'invalid' ? Is floating point that bad?
03:55.51poolioAh, ok :)
03:55.59brlcadyes, it really is
03:56.09brlcadwhen it comes to validity checking on brep geometry
03:56.13brlcadit's a pretty major problem
03:57.20poolioSo is implicit gemoetry not checked against tolerances? Cause wouldn't converting from valid geometry lead to valid results...maybe I should just wait til I get there
03:57.22brlcadyou'll end up with things that are inside out, twisted, with singularities, cracks, overlaps, and other degeneracies
03:57.58brlcadthe implicits are checked, sure .. the mere conversion to brep form, though, can (and will) introduce those errors
03:58.40brlcadaside from primitives that inherintly tolerancing for type detection (arbs)
03:59.57pooliobrlcad: So should all shapes take a tolerance or only the ones that need them? I'm thinking it's easier to just use a standard...although with C++ we could overload/set a default param
04:00.57brlcadthe api has to be the same for all of them
04:01.21brlcadit's a callback
04:02.09poolioah, k
04:02.43brlcadit'll go in a table by name, and called genericly
04:02.58brlcadlike all the other rt_xxx_* callbacks
04:05.29pacman87how much time is it worth spending on moving the code back into prep() from shot/norm/uv?
04:05.53pacman87and is there a standardized way to test performance improvements?
04:06.10brlcadpacman87: highly valuable
04:06.32brlcadoptimizing the hell out of primitives is always a good thing
04:06.51brlcadthat cascades performance benefits
04:07.25pacman87so, keep moving code until i cant find any more code to move.
04:07.30brlcadstandardized way .. use a good performance profiler ;)
04:07.35brlcadyep
04:08.03brlcadand then for the code that's remaining, make sure it's efficient, non-redundant, cache coherent, etc
04:08.13pacman87i've never done performance profiling before
04:08.40brlcadahh, fun stuff
04:08.45brlcadwell, want to? :)
04:08.57pacman87yeah, i just want to know how
04:09.01brlcadhow easy and good it is depends entirely on your platform
04:09.10pacman87slackware 12
04:09.38brlcadso your basic staple of profiling on linux would be gprof
04:12.04brlcadit's really simple to use -- you'll recompile with configure --enable-profiling --disable-optimized .. compile .. install .. run rt on a hyp .. then run gprof
04:12.04pacman87is there a compile flag for profiling?
04:12.19pacman87read my mind :)
04:12.52brlcadwhen you run rt with profiling enabled, it'll generate a gmon.out file in that directory, gprof uses that along with the binary to sort out where time was spent
04:13.28brlcadit'll generate a fairly detailed report with lots of options and stats.. you then review that report and see if where the time is being spent makes sense
04:14.29pacman87uv is skipped unless there's a texture, and i'm guessing norm is skipped if there's no shading
04:14.41pacman87when is curve called?
04:15.17brlcadlook for the rt_functab entry callers
04:15.26brlcaddon't recall specifically
04:15.42pacman87curve and tess are the last functions i have to write
04:15.51brlcadtess will be fun..
04:16.10pacman87yeah, i've kind of been avoiding it
04:17.57brlcadehy and tgc kinda give you the formula though
04:18.05brlcadmight be nearly identical to tgc
04:19.03brlcadoh yeah -- can the hyp caps have two different radii? .. and separate orientation? :)
04:20.01brlcadseparate radii at least could be really useful for attaching pipes together
04:20.01pacman87right now the endplates are identical
04:20.23pacman87if you want a different radius, you could cut it off sooner
04:21.10pacman87the cross sections are all similar ellipses, a/b = const
04:32.48brlcadexcept it'd be a curvature discontinuity
04:35.02brlcadi see these being used to smoothly tie together tgc/rcc objects, pinched cables, flow control valves, etc, connecting ends with a specific height and specific sized/shaped ends
04:35.42pacman87that could be done, using a circle for the cross section at the neck
04:37.37pacman87in that case, you'd need the height axis, top/bottom heights, major axis vectors for the two ends, major/minor axis lengths for both ends, and the radius of the circle in the middle
04:38.11brlcadmajor/minor for the ellipse in the middle ;)
04:38.17pacman87in that case, it's not really an elliptical hyperboloid anymore
04:38.29pacman87yeah, sure ;)
04:38.36pacman87and the major vector for that too
04:39.23pacman87but i don't see a way to handle an arbitrary elliptical neck
04:40.31brlcadalright, just a thought :)
04:41.31pacman87if you want a shape like that, i could do it
04:41.46brlcadnah, doesn't have to be that way .. more just probing thought
04:42.20pacman87but it'd probably take another week or so
04:42.37pacman87and i'd rather go on to the revolve after hyp is done
04:44.31brlcadyeah, don't worry about it .. straight up elliptic hyperboloid of one sheet sounds like the plan to stick to
04:45.18brlcadespecially since we could do the shape I'm thinking of with a generalized sweep anyways :)
04:52.27pooliobrlcad: So apparently I break parsing of input if I manage to sneak in a '\' before it outputs the next line of parameter reading. Is this expected?
05:04.36brlcaddoesn't ring a bell, but would have to read the source
05:08.37pacman87i'm off to bed; i'll work on tess() in the morning
05:18.29brlcadcheers
05:19.04starseekerlikes the ability to include multiple sub-files in a top level document - that needs more study
05:31.47brlcadxpath is good stuff
05:31.59brlcadand/or usual docbook hierarchyness
05:32.57starseekerbreaking VolII into parts should be a good test
06:35.11brlcadpacman87: in hyp hyp 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 .5
06:35.26brlcadae 35 25
06:36.38brlcadactually from any ae it seems
06:37.50brlcadscale is off too
06:39.57brlcadand all sorts of interesting results if I twitch that .5 anywhere from .1 to 10 ..  :)
06:41.20CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31331 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: don't allow system tcl to be mixed with non-system itcl under any circumstance regardless of version
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09:23.43mafmhello
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11:47.16brlcadhowdy mafm
11:47.47brlcadyour code now has a home!
11:50.14brlcadthe rt^3 module, you can add to that as needed probably starting with a new subdir in src, and another for src/other for the external deps
12:15.37clock_There's a Swiss guy mentioned in the new who retargetted his Opel Kadett for driving on wood
12:15.53clock_Has a gasifier attached to the rear of the vehicle
12:16.12clock_I wonder if a gasifier large enough could feed a resonance ramjet and one could build a cruise misile running on wood
12:16.42clock_Or fly to the moon on wood ;-)
12:19.57mafmbrlcad: I guessed so by the movement in the -commit list... but is the ^ a good character for filenames? wouldn't that give problems on some systems?
12:22.54mafmmy bet is on vivoleum: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/6/14/214445/536
12:23.05mafm(for clock_ :) )
12:25.06clock_I wonder what happens if you put plastic into gassifier
12:25.18clock_could cars run on the plastic part of household waste?
12:25.30clock_Terry, eat the youghurts faster, Dad needs to drive to the work!
12:26.45mafmmany of those contain nasty chemicals or things that cause breathing problems for humans or other nasty side effects... kind of the problem with biofuels
12:27.53clock_I once put the oil from canned fish into a jar and added a makeshift wick
12:27.56clock_It burned hell long!
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12:40.53mafm:D
12:52.38clock_I just invented how to make a transmission from slow to fast without cogs, only with levers!
12:52.47clock_without cogwheels
13:07.41brlcadmafm:  you'd think, but I've actually been surprised how many shells/OS/filesystems support it without a problem
13:07.58brlcadthat said, the name isn't finalized, think of it as an internal dev name
13:08.20mafmfine
13:09.05mafmdid you read the log about RBGui? it seems that the development effort has declined since when it was considered
13:09.17brlcadyep
13:13.11brlcadmafm: for the module, you have a fairly large amount of flexibility, nothing there is set in stone -- it'll likely be a stomping ground for the new OO API layer in order to keep a defined separation with librt/libbn/libbu, but how that is organized on the filesystem isn't set
13:14.06brlcadone thing that would be nice would be a conversion of rt^3 to cmake, you're welcome to
13:14.20brlcadespecially if you're not experienced with the autotools, then it'd probably be a great idea
13:18.26mafmI'm not experience in cmake either :D
13:18.28brlcadmafm: as for rbgui, whenever you want to talk about that vs other other options, I'm game
13:18.55mafmwell, you know about the other *option*: CEGUI
13:21.03brlcadsure, that is an option
13:21.44brlcadtheir activity wouldn't necessarily need to be the deciding factor, especially if you're talking about a mere couple months that have passed to declare them "inactive"
13:22.01mafmsince March, is 3
13:22.29brlcadsure, call it 6 .. that's not very long in the big scheme of things :)
13:22.30mafmthe thing is that they patched OGRE for a new function that they {need,think is more convenient}?
13:22.38brlcadplenty of projects release once a year or less
13:22.43mafmand they removed that option from newer stable versions of OGRE
13:22.44brlcadyet are still quite "active"
13:23.02mafmand they haven't adapted their code since then
13:23.12brlcadthe bigger issue is how readable/maintainable is their code bose
13:23.31mafmso well, a few months is not big hassle.. but they have a very short story
13:23.42brlcadso if we have to do the updates and ports ourselves, is that worth the effort (compared to the downsides of using something else)
13:23.48mafmso in the scale of their lifetime, it's significant, I think
13:24.04brlcadi'm just saying that it's not a deciding factor
13:24.14brlcadthey could drop dead/disappear today
13:24.29brlcadit could still be a viable code to use, even if it doesn't work out of the box
13:24.33brlcadjust depends on other factors
13:24.50brlcadi.e. the actual quality of the code and features provided
13:25.20brlcadbuild system integration issues are usually very very minor .. the actual features the various toolkits provide are where the time is spent
13:25.59brlcad"usually" of course, there are some outlier nasties for rapidly changing codes, but ogre isn't in that camp
13:26.13mafmwell... yes, but in example if CEGUI dies, for sure somebody will maintain it in one way or another... but if they die almost certainly the job would be for BRL-CAD team, no other way
13:27.18mafmand code quality, at first glance, might be easy to analyze; but for features probably you don't know until you're deeply buried in the mud :D
13:27.42brlcadpossibly, but I'd just treat it as if nobody is or will maintain either -- that makes evaluation a lot more simple and less influenced by popularity perception
13:28.10brlcadthe code itself and features really should drive the decision
13:28.51brlcadany external code is a burden especially given we fully manage all external dependencies
13:30.01mafmI see
13:30.35mafmwell, the code looks clean and pretty well commented, with lots of "const" guards and so on -- so they seem to have put good care on it
13:31.07brlcadare their features significantly better/worse than cegui?
13:31.48brlcada minor note, you mentioned yeesterday about cegui's appearance -- you are aware that we would absolutely not use the default theme, yes? :)
13:31.50mafmas for the features, having seeing the video in the links of the discussion, I think that they are not behind CEGUI, but that might be just because of the default theme (as somebody suggest in OGRE forum threads)
13:32.15brlcadthat'd probably be the first thing that'd have to change if you go the cegui route, something much simpler, lightweight, clean
13:33.16brlcadhow big are the actual code for each?
13:33.22brlcadhave you looked at line counts?
13:33.42``Eriknotes that BRL-CAD has gone more than 3 months without release before, yet is quite active... has seen programs go YEARS without releases or visible activity, yet are still active *shrug*
13:34.23mafmTotals grouped by language (dominant language first):
13:34.23mafmcpp:          11215 (95.82%)
13:34.23mafmansic:          489 (4.18%)
13:34.29mafmand for Mocha...
13:34.43``Erik(why rt^3 instead of a new top-level?)
13:35.25mafmTotals grouped by language (dominant language first):
13:35.26mafmansic:        12426 (65.59%)
13:35.26mafmcpp:           6519 (34.41%)
13:35.38mafm(most of "ansic" being actually Lua scripts)
13:35.43brlcad``Erik: because it has some basic structure in place, a build system set up, C++ files that establish/demonstrate style, documented structure, etc .. less to fix down the road
13:35.53mafm(mocha is a kind of helper library needed by RBGui)
13:35.54brlcadthe module can always be renamed
13:36.43brlcadsame mocha as seen here: http://greghoustondesign.com/demos/mocha/  ?
13:37.15mafm``Erik: yes but there are also thousands of projects which make a first release and abandon very early
13:37.55brlcadnotes that style is curiously *really* close to the style seen in the IOE demo
13:38.10mafmnope, that one of yours is javascript
13:39.55brlcadwell I know that, but the logic under the hood could have been the same library
13:40.05brlcadespecially if they were doing any server-side ajaxisms
13:42.37mafmhttp://www.rightbraingames.com/tech.php -> description of RBGui and mocha
13:43.02brlcadso about 30k lines for rbgui
13:43.06mafmit's a kind of utility library
13:43.16mafmthe GUI itself is in RBGui
13:43.29mafmso I think that it doesn't have anything to do with the javascript thingy
13:45.02brlcadyeah, k
13:45.40brlcadso how much code in cegui?
13:46.17mafmhttp://feature.mmosite.com/antilia/
13:46.36mafmthey're creating this game, but the website has empty pages and the screenshots have no GUI :(
13:46.47brlcad30k is pretty significant, but not insurmountable to maintain on our own .. anywhere from a couple months to a year of effort
13:48.31mafm(downloading CEGUI, I don't have it around)
13:50.54mafmSLOC    Directory       SLOC-by-Language (Sorted)
13:50.54mafm26494   src             cpp=26494
13:50.54mafm12503   include         cpp=12149,ansic=354
13:51.21mafmwith image modules, renderer modules, xml and the like... about 10k more
13:51.59brlcadthat sloc is for which?
13:52.21mafmcegui
13:52.52brlcadah, so pretty closely on par with each other
13:53.19brlcad+ any external deps for cegui
13:54.07mafmfrom rbgui svn:
13:54.11mafmr1 | brian | 2007-10-24 04:01:11 +0100 (Wed, 24 Oct 2007) | 1 line
13:54.30mafmr16 | brian | 2007-11-20 04:01:28 +0000 (Tue, 20 Nov 2007) | 1 line
13:54.42mafmthat's the last one appearing in that repository
13:56.02brlcadnods
13:57.49mafmthe dates of the RBGui 0.1.3 release are also from 2007, I don't know where I got the thing about march... maybe the date of the thread of OGRE forums announcing it, or the RPM package or something
13:58.16mafmI have to go for a meeting now, be back in about 1 hour
13:58.21brlcadyou're still stuck on that point :)
13:58.22mafmor probably less
13:58.25brlcadtreat them both as dead
13:58.28brlcadand compare from there
13:58.55brlcadhave fun!
13:58.56brlcad:)
13:59.07mafmwell, yes, but it turns that it's more dead than I thought :D
13:59.17mafmlater
14:00.14brlcador they're just "finished" because it was so damn good and/or they didn't need it to do anything else
14:00.58brlcadall the more reason to just look at what it is and does
14:02.17brlcadcegui may be the better choice, I'm fine with trying either -- but they should be compared on factors that matter the most to us
14:03.17brlcadfrom what I've seen, cegui is certainly more popular and better documented/supported .. but more complex to learn and integrate I bet, and will require a complete overhaul of the defaults
14:04.26brlcadrbgui is of course more unknown and not well documented/supported .. but more simple to integrate (less ext. deps), has a gui editor, and the defaults are "fine" for now
14:04.38brlcadso kinda a wash barring new information
14:07.39brlcadpoolio: I'm listening to a presentation right now that is basically what you did last summer, but only in 2D using circles and non-overlapping unions
14:08.02brlcadno more, no less .. and it's a formally published IEEE paper :)
14:39.24mafmback
14:40.20clock_brlcad: I have also an IEEE paper with ISBN!
14:40.30clock_bursts with self-pride
14:44.55clock_poolio: what did you do?
14:54.01CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31332 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/ (BrlcadCore.def CMakeLists.txt Makefile.am):
14:54.02CIA-21BRL-CAD: BrlcadCore.dll now exports some functions which brlcad.dll does not
14:54.02CIA-21BRL-CAD: at least some of these functions are rather BRL-CAD private and shouldn't be used in other applications
14:54.04mafmno replies in #ogre3d channel :)
14:54.31brlcadtheir guys are rarely on freenode
14:54.37brlcadthey're mainly forum driven
14:55.06brlcadsteve says he gets nothing done when he's on irc :)
14:56.47CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31333 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): added asc2g and g2asc to the CMake
15:01.28mafmI was mostly trying to find ppl who used it for their projects -- I guess that OGRE devels don't have much time to test other stuff
15:06.42starseekerjust out of curosity, is cegui's close relationship with OGRE of any help as compared to RBgui?
15:06.58starseekercan't spell today...
15:07.22CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31334 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/hyp/hyp.c: fix scale error found by brlcad
15:09.30d_rossbergpacman87: the endcaps now look good
15:10.08pacman87d_rossberg: only curve() and tess() left now :)
15:11.17brlcadhm
15:11.18d_rossbergand revolve and sweep ;)
15:11.29brlcadwas getting all sorts of endcap errors
15:11.32brlcadupdates
15:12.29starseekerAh, nevermind... (found the wiki discussion of OpenGL gui frameworks)
15:12.32starseekerreads...
15:13.37brlcadclock_: he implemented a GA that performed shape matching using ray-tracing, implicits, and CSG: http://brlcad.org/Beset_Overview.pdf
15:14.59mafmstarseeker: both them are, they were originally designed for OGRE afaik
15:16.13clock_brlcad: what's a GA?
15:16.31clock_and what's shape matching?
15:16.37brlcadyou didn't look at the link apparently
15:19.48clock_Preliminary results approximates a cone from spheres
15:20.06clock_That's sounds a bit impractical and more theoretical
15:20.13clock_Is it in some practical stage already?
15:20.41brlcadof course not, it was specifically theoretical research
15:21.35brlcadit's not been done before, and the results actually show that it's probably quite feasible for real-world results with more focus on the fitness function and convergence criteria
15:22.05clock_isn't it just going to make everything from spheres?
15:22.12brlcadNo...
15:22.16clock_give it a cube and it approximates it from spheres?
15:22.20brlcadyou're not getting it
15:22.39clock_but why didn't it just produce one cone and produce tons of spheres instead?
15:22.54brlcadthe point is to match an unknown shape with candidate shape(s) and CSG operations
15:23.16brlcadbecause that would converge nearly instantly, it's a nonsensical result
15:24.05brlcadthat task of matching an input shape where the input shape is in you candidate shape set was matched very early on, that's pretty much trivial
15:24.33brlcadthe (much) harder problem is when your candidate shapes don't match the input
15:25.05clock_I would take a biggest sphere that would fit in
15:25.08brlcadso instead of cylinder, maybe it's the mounting bracket to your ronja device
15:25.15clock_subtract it and recursively call the algorithm on the rest ;-)
15:25.50clock_or convert the shape into an octree and then build the octree from cubes ;-)
15:25.57brlcadyou don't know what would fit, or even where
15:26.05brlcadit determines that implicitly through the GA process
15:26.13clock_wow
15:26.14brlcadit knows *nothing* about the input
15:26.24clock_not even it's shape?
15:26.32brlcadit can sample the shape is all
15:26.32clock_polishes his crystal ball
15:26.41brlcadsingle ray queries
15:26.49mafm(I appear to know more of GUIs than people of the channel, so no much help in that camp :) )
15:26.53brlcadthat tell you where material exists or does not exist
15:27.19brlcadmafm: what were you expecting to get from them? :)
15:27.26clock_I wonder how it reacts if you give it a sponge like for washing dishes
15:27.33brlcadhighly likely iff you got feedback, it'd be biased to the more well-known popular result
15:27.38clock_then the results will depend on precise sampling point
15:28.16brlcadthe GA itself tries to converge to match the same space occupancy
15:28.34brlcadmostly useful for high-dimensional search spaces as a semi-brute force search method
15:29.37pooliobrlcad: I might try to further pursue beset off the clock :) I've got some more ideas I want to try out
15:30.02brlcadwas inspired to code up some of the remaining ideas he had as well ;)
15:30.18poolioah well, I concede.
15:30.38brlcadespecially with more operators and primitives to choose from, and simulated annealing to increase convergence
15:31.00brlcadno no.. don't let me hold you up from doing anything
15:31.18brlcadthose aren't exclusive-or decisions :)
15:31.19poolioWell, are you working off of the code I had implemented or starting anew?
15:31.41clock_brlcad: if you give it a mounting bracket do you think it figures out the primitives from which the bracket was made?
15:31.44brlcadeh, why would I start new?
15:31.51clock_3 rpps and 2 cyls?
15:32.00pooliobrlcad: no clue, just wondering :) You should keep beset up to date so we could potentially collaborate :)
15:32.13poolioclock_: Maybe, but it's pretty far from that currently.
15:32.27brlcadclock_: theoretically if the same primitives and operators were available in the sample set, that would be one of the possible solutions it could arrive at (along with billions of other less fit solutions)
15:33.12brlcadpoolio: I rarely ever have uncommitted code, commit frequently ftw
15:33.34pooliocommit early, commit often, commit every time you save ;)
15:33.42clock_Hehe genetic algorithms on WP: "Commonly, the algorithm terminates when either a maximum number of        generations has been produced, or a satisfactory fitness level has been reached for the population.
15:33.47clock_"
15:34.19clock_or "until intelligence capable of producing nuclear weapons evolves"
15:34.39clock_what's the termination criterion for the genetic evolution of the nature?
15:35.12poolioIt never terminates.
15:35.21brlcadmade a GA that drove little tanks around that learned how to combat each other in teams effectively whilest in college
15:35.33poolioIt terminates if you can solve the halting problem :)
15:35.48pooliobrlcad: hehe, I did something like that but with little animals collecting food
15:35.54brlcadeasy .. if (rand() == 0) abort(); :)
15:36.01pooliobrlcad: I see you started early with the army
15:36.27poolioBah, it's not even random. pseudo-random ftl.
15:37.52brlcadthe first really impressive result I saw was another group in that same class that used a GA that learned how to play tetris .. it learned *exceptionally* well and after a couple days evolving could then easily beat any human players (and could play at 100x real-time speed)
15:38.08brlcadall through a GA that evolved an FSM of gameplay logic
15:38.47poolioThat's quite impressive...but couldn't they have just brute forced something like that?
15:39.09clock_I once played with a program for genetically generated art
15:39.40brlcadthe second impressive result was terzolopolous' work where he had an articulated model of a fish and it completely and naturally learned how to swim .. that was fscking impressive
15:39.44clock_or evolve tetris that is as easy as possible
15:39.48clock_with only 1x1 blocks
15:40.03pooliobrlcad: oh heh, was it just a simulation? I think I've seen that research before
15:40.21poolioThere was also someone in #ai a while ago that used Q-learning + NNs to evolve a gait for a quadruped
15:40.25clock_brlcad: I tried that with human body, biological computer and skateboarding and it also worked impressively
15:40.40clock_poolio: they do it on the university of zurich in their robotic lab
15:40.50brlcadpoolio: actually the combinatorial explosion in tetris can get pretty bad -- especially as the stragey actually needed to optimize and respond differently at different levels -- it was multi-player tetris (netris)
15:41.23poolioah, I love netris :). I just did some quick figures and got 7(2^200)...I guess that's a little bit large :)
15:43.13clock_Could you use GA to evolve an .mp3 that would get #1 in the world charts?
15:43.29starseeker<snort> that would explain a lot of current music...
15:43.59clock_I wrote a program where I fed Bible and Koran and it produced a religious text on the halfway
15:44.06clock_Allah and God walking hand in hand in one sentence
15:44.16clock_Should solve the eternal collision between religions
15:44.27brlcadclock_: there's some people that have actually worked on that ..
15:44.42clock_I also put in gay sex stories
15:44.48brlcad(the music bit, not the religious one)
15:44.50clock_to make the religion less homophobic
15:44.58clock_brlcad: evolved music?
15:45.05brlcadyep
15:45.30brlcadit's all in the fitness function
15:45.44clock_I took like 8 bit game monsters put them into one picture and ran through the program
15:46.11clock_and it created new monsters like birds and dwarfs and birds sitting on a tree branch and multi-headed monsters etc.
15:46.30clock_Apparently, the extremely primitive algorithm somehow understood how a monster should look like
15:46.41clock_wouldn't it be possible for shapes?
15:47.13clock_You give it a complicated model and it ideates and phantasizes based on that?
15:47.45starseekercan hear the marketing slogans for GA music software "Record studios - when you can't afford or identify musical quality and talent, evolve it with Hit-Gen 3.0!"
15:49.31clock_or like "Throw away all discrimination and prejudice - hitmaking for the deaf, painting for the blind!"
15:50.29poolioI think it'd be more interesting to have some program train on all the top hits ever and mash them together
15:50.32clock_Well I solved the problem how deaf people can accompany music
15:50.59clock_I wrote an analyzer that shows coloured graphs of the semitones being played and you put coloured stickers on a piano and press the same color you see is coming
15:51.03clock_And it mostly sounds good.
15:51.32clock_DJ Elvis and MC Jimi Hendrix
15:51.37starseekerpoolio:  agree it would be an interesting experiment to run, but I'm not sure we need any more ways to kill off human culture generation...
15:52.42brlcadpacman87: looking better, next bug:  in hyp hyp 100 100 100 0 0 1 .5 0 0 .5 .5   ;  left  ; zoom 4  ; rt
15:52.43starseekermore interesting would be to see if such a program could identify what decade a song was most popular in based on some baseline of popular songs from the last six decades or so
15:53.05clock_starseeker: it would be necessary to discriminate structure in music
15:53.05starseekerPerhaps you could identify core "sounds of an era"
15:53.34clock_you need just one human brain in a vat
15:53.39clock_with a happiness indicator
15:53.49clock_feed the music in and find such music that produces the best happiness signal
15:54.06clock_but would have ethical issues
15:54.46clock_I hope humans will be replaced by immortal computers before I die
15:55.18clock_then I will upload my mind into a compact flash chip and be killed from a falling brick animated in BRL-CAD
15:55.20starseekerUh - unless you are an immortal computer I doubt that
15:55.36clock_from -> by
16:01.01pacman87brlcad: what problem did you see?
16:10.40brlcada line right through the middle, flipped normals
16:11.10pacman87screenshot plz?
16:11.45brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/hypnorm.png
16:12.34brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/hypnorm2.png
16:12.40pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/hyp_rt15.png
16:13.07brlcadit's some near-zero tolerancing problem
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16:15.35brlcadprobably floating point fuzz, that's exactly on the midline
16:15.52mafmbrlcad: "what were you expecting to get from them? :)" experience on using it
16:16.13brlcadfair nuff :)
16:16.39brlcadI think you just need to "pick one" and run with making it work, for better or worse
16:17.14brlcadI'll pick one if you want, but they do seem fairly even to be rather bikeshed issue barring any other information about the code quality and APIs
16:17.49brlcadhow easy / hard does it seem to be to themee rbgui ?
16:18.02mafmI think that peole gathering in those channels are usually people like me, using OGRE for their projects, along with some core devels, sometimes of the difefferent addons themselves
16:18.16mafm(though I would not expect to fin rbgui devels here :) )
16:18.17brlcadand does the ui scale non-raster
16:18.42mafmso I'm going to patch OGRE to make it work with RBGUI
16:19.59brlcadpatch ogre, not patch rbgui? :)
16:32.22mafmyep... it's calling a non-existing method in some ogre class
16:33.19mafmhttp://www.ogre3d.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=239174&sid=ce193664e1d3d7c4af509e6f4e2718c6
16:33.44CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31335 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/hyp/hyp.c: fix normals near z=0
16:33.49pacman87brlcad: try that
16:41.11brlcadmafm: ah, another interesting patch for rbgui+mocha here: http://www.ogre3d.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=32929&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=650
16:41.32brlcadfinds that method of exchanging patches utterly appalling
16:42.09pacman87brlcad: i just realized i can get rid of the z=0 check by multiplying the normal vector through by z
16:42.21brlcadok
16:42.22pacman87and it also takes care of the z>0 conditional
16:42.38pacman87so 10 lines of code -> 1 line :)
16:42.44brlcadexcellent
16:42.58pacman87testing it now
16:43.49mafmyou mean for me to include the sources+patches of all this in our brl-cad branch?
16:44.39mafmoh, that function exists in OGRE-bleeding-edge-trunk at least, gonna try that first
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16:54.19CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31336 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/hyp/hyp.c: new and improved normals\!
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16:59.14brlcadstarseeker: those circumflex A's are undoubtedly unicode conversion problems -- try changing the doctype in the html header source, maybe from utf-8 to one of the iso types
16:59.24brlcador just regex replace them ..
16:59.29brlcadmafm: yup
16:59.36brlcadfully managed dependencies
17:00.04brlcadif we can't build it for ourselves, it's kinda silly to expect our users to be able to
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17:05.11brlcadwe may later pull ogre out given it's size, but for now it'll really help to consistently become familiar with their sources, build layout, etc
17:06.39brlcadtraditionally, though, anything that is need to compile (other than the compilation environment itself) is provided with the sources and optionally/only used if a suitable system version isn't installed
17:06.39mafmuh, that's a huge one :)
17:06.39brlcadno bigger than tcl/tk iirc
17:06.44brlcadand you wouldn't include some of their binary goo that we don't need
17:06.58louipcwhat now? brl-cad's going to include ogre?
17:07.12brlcadlouipc: no
17:07.22mafmdunno about TK, but  TCL was supposed to be a  tiny interpreter :)
17:07.23brlcadthis is experimental development
17:07.38brlcadif it works out well, certainly
17:07.57mafmgo for a coffee while compiling trunk
17:07.59brlcadseparate module, though, not the brlcad module
17:08.01mafmbrb
17:08.06louipcah
17:08.45brlcadthis can be thought of as an app that uses brl-cad's libraries/tools, a unified environment
17:14.10brlcadpacman87: that seems to have done the trick!
17:16.55louipcmafm: well it's pretty small compared to others.
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17:36.06brlcadpacman87: the primitive is nicely robust down to computation tolerance sizes... very nice!
17:36.22brlcade.g. a hyp that is only 0.0005 mm tall
17:50.01pacman87how exactly is the tesselation stored in the nmgregion?
18:29.15brlcadfaces, loops, edges, vertices
18:29.27brlcadthey stitch together a solid surface
18:33.03pacman87what is tess() used for; ie, how can i test it?
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18:40.19pacman87what's the best way to handle the case where the ellipse's major axis vector isnt' perpendicular to the height?
18:41.33pacman87give an error and refuse to work, or just take the component of the vector that is perpendicular?
18:42.43pacman87in test hyp 0 0 0  0 0 4  0 1 1  1 1
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18:45.11mafmOGRE crashing my X... no good >:[
18:46.21louipcheheh
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18:55.21IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/shot2.png   :)
19:00.25louipcwhat is it? :P
19:00.41IriX64computer burped and that came out :)
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19:03.59andrecastelogood afternoon guys
19:05.29pacman87hi andrecastelo
19:05.46andrecastelohey pacman87, how are u ?
19:12.32pacman87pretty good, still trying to wrap my mind around tess()
19:12.38pacman87how are you?
19:12.38ibotpacman87: mas o menos
19:15.54andrecastelopretty good too, got some free time, trying to work my way into stting up a grid
19:15.59andrecastelos/stting/setting
19:27.16brlcadpacman87: tess is used by most of the converters -- you can test it with the E and/or ev commands inside mged
19:54.17andrecastelo``Erik: mlt's view_setup() will be pretty similar to rt's view_setup() ? perhaps expanding it a little to handle mlt specific stuff??
20:08.07mafmbe back tomorrow or sunday to recover a bit of the time and speed up things
20:08.34mafmand fix this OGRE thing broking my X-Windows :P
20:08.40mafmcya
20:46.20pacman87hmm, the ehy will accept a major axis vector that's not perpendicular to the height vector, but ehy's export5() gives a scary error message.  Would it be better to check this in typein.c instead of export5()?
21:23.23``Erik2/det
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23:30.56brlcadpacman87: you should check in both places .. there are other ways to directly create primitives that side-step typein
23:31.35brlcadexport is ultimately where it's "actually" created on disk, so that makes sense too
23:35.42brlcadotherwise you could handle it in a variety of ways, but probably not worth the effort
23:38.56brlcadandrecastelo: likely very similar or even empty
23:39.20brlcadview_init is rarely used .. it's what you can do after you know your view grid but before you've prep'd geometry .. which isn't very much
23:40.48andrecastelobrlcad: i see.. i have a night class now but i'll be back in an hour, an hour and a half.. will you be online then?
23:42.17andrecastelohehe, i'm kinda late, so cya later
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080607

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080607

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01:41.14kolnstyle_about how much time it would take to rotate by 45 degrees and scale by a factor of 2 a 500x500px image while using biquintic interpolation?
01:41.21kolnstyle_a rough estimate is fine
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02:02.49andrecastelohey brlcad - is it ok to use bu_bomb() in the center point calculations, in the case of an empty list?
02:04.11yukonbobafternoon, cadheads
02:19.11starseeker's eyebrows go up as he reads the RBGui readme file - so far they only have windows build logic?? ugh
02:22.56andrecastelogood evening yukonbob
02:24.37starseekeris beginning to understand properly why brlcad thought there weren't any really great options...
02:37.53andrecastelohow can i initialize a bu_list will null? head->l = BU_LIST_NULL; ???
02:56.44brlcadandrecastelo: center point calculations?
02:57.21andrecastelobrlcad: yep, i'm BUnitizing the rtarea patch
02:57.39brlcadbu_bomb should be used for exceptional failures -- usually either code that really should *never* be reached, or situations where continuing very well may put users data at risk (e.g. detected corruption)
02:58.11andrecastelohm ok then.. the function returns zero if any trouble arises
02:58.32andrecastelobut my problem right now is initializing the point lits
02:58.36andrecastelos/lits/lists
02:58.45brlcadif there's no way to reasonably continue the application, but it's not critical, you could call bu_exit
02:59.07brlcadbu_bomb would be cases where you might actually want a stack trace to know just how the f*ck you got to that point in the code
02:59.54andrecasteloyou're right, that won't be needed here.. and i think even in the mlt stuff it won't be that serious
03:00.58andrecasteloi'll paste you my problem, just a sec
03:02.46andrecastelohere - http://rafb.net/p/Nmgo0C33.html
03:03.13andrecastelomy doubt is - how do i set up a bu_list?
03:04.21andrecasteloi've made the appropriate changes in other sections, where the list is iterated through and stuff and also used vector macros to handle points (is that ok?)
03:06.42brlcadof course, using existing libraries is always a good thing
03:08.26brlcadandrecastelo: did you read the header block for bu_list in include/bu.h ?
03:09.05andrecasteloyes, i even implemented a bu_list type in a separate program, just to test and become familiar with the list
03:10.35brlcadthat's good
03:11.47andrecastelowhat am i missing?
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03:25.57CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31337 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: include a simple example of one way to use a bu_list
03:27.16brlcadandrecastelo: that line is a problem because you're trying to set a structure type to an integer scalar type
03:28.16andrecasteloyeah, i know, i was trying to find a way to initialize the lists involving BU_LIST_NULL (because later on i use BU_LIST_UNINITIALIZED to check if it's ready)
03:28.17brlcadyou wouldn't try to do this for example:  struct area foo = 0; ... you'd only do that with a pointer, struct area *foo = 0;
03:28.56brlcadsee the example I just added to bu.h, see if that helps
03:30.12andrecastelohm ok, will do
03:30.26andrecastelois the point list structure correct?
03:30.28brlcadto use BU_LIST_NULL, you'd actually normally do something like set your hit_points = BU_LIST_NULL
03:30.39brlcaduntil you allocate it of course
03:31.04brlcadsure, looks fine
03:34.36andrecastelothanks, will check
03:35.42starseekerHmm - http://ogre4j.sourceforge.net/
03:35.49starseekerThat could be useful
03:36.24brlcadheh
03:36.40starseekerif a certain project ever reaches such a stage...
03:38.19brlcadpossibly
03:38.29brlcadso you doing anything more with oed/
03:38.45brlcadthe html dump that is
03:38.52brlcador just playing around
03:38.59starseekerJust playing around, so far
03:39.03brlcadk
03:39.05starseekertesting the xhtml output
03:39.43starseekerindicently, how do I spot the friggin unicode character if it only shows up when served from bz?
03:39.47brlcadwho was it that was trying to import the infobox wikipedia template ?
03:40.15brlcadwould be good if someone figured out what needs to happen for that to work, would be really useful for documentation
03:43.16starseekergoogles infobox...
03:43.22brlcadyou can see the unicode character in emacs
03:43.34brlcad(as ?? in text mode or c2a0 in hexl-mode)
03:43.45brlcadit's a no-break space character
03:45.57starseekershould actually figure out how to get xsltproc not to generate it...
03:47.02brlcadsome insight, http://ask.metafilter.com/71246/What-the-Â
03:47.57brlcadbut yeah, better at the xsltproc phase probably, if there's a setting to output ISO 8859-1 instead of UTF-8
03:48.23pacman87brlcad: the infobox wiki template was me
03:50.57andrecastelobrlcad: here, http://rafb.net/p/hWwqDq60.html (i'll delete the comments i added, though)
03:51.42brlcadandrecastelo: does it work? :)
03:52.34andrecasteloyep, it does, but only for the presented areas
03:56.06starseekerbrlcad:  Looks like the way to do it is to correct the XSL stylesheet and use a custom one...
03:57.21andrecasteloalso, can i take struct point_list to an include/ header?? i'll need it in viewmlt.c.. though it's not that big deal
03:57.22starseekeror perhaps I can fake it out with a fragment...
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04:00.30brlcadandrecastelo: possibly
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04:11.59CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31338 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: commentify cleanup the bu_list section
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04:23.03starseekerbrlcad:  Is bz somehow forcing things to be ISO 8859-1?  I'm really confused that if I load the file locally in firefox it works and the same page on bz doesn't...
04:27.41starseekergrowls at xsl and realizes setting this up isn't so simple...
04:27.50starseekerok, bedtime...
04:28.43brlcadandrecastelo: it looks like there's already a linked list point structure, but it may be obsolete/unused
04:29.15brlcader, never mind .. not unused
04:37.48brlcadandrecastelo: there's an rt_pt_node structure that's a simple forward linked list of point_t
04:38.43brlcadso it'd be interested to update that structure to use bu_list instead of it's custom implementation and see what kind of impact it'd make if any on performance
04:38.55brlcads/interested/interesting/
04:39.56brlcadotherwise .. both mlrt and rtarea are in the same location so your structure could be in a private header instead of something in include/
04:42.52andrecasteloi see, i see.. the structure is in a header in include/ ?
04:43.05brlcadyeah
04:43.23brlcadit looks like it's basically a light-weight linked list for primitive construction
04:43.48brlcadfrom the look of the primitives, it might even predate the structure
04:49.01andrecastelook, i'll take a look in a while :D
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09:19.38LeRuCh05  Afternoon people!
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13:19.52brlcadfinds a handful of remaining hyp issues to resolve
13:34.08brlcadpacman87: woo hoo, looking great ... http://brlcad.org/tmp/hyp.png
13:34.34brlcada few things I've noticed though .. it's really hard to line up the parameters with that c parameter
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13:35.30brlcadI'd really like to define the height and base ellipse and have those stick .. then the c parameter just be how much to pinch
13:35.59brlcadsince the common case is likely going to be attaching it to rcc and tgc
13:36.22brlcadI had to do my own newtonian iterative search to find the right c to get this to line up:  http://brlcad.org/tmp/hyp_pinch.png
13:37.23brlcadand I don't know how feasible it is, but it'd be really cool if it could be done without the discontinuity
13:38.22brlcadthe other two things I noticed are that the center point should be the center of the base for consistency (see the tgc as an example), not the center of the primitve (l command should list top center point too (see tgc))
13:38.52brlcadalso, the uv mapping seems off on the scaling -- you can see here:  http://brlcad.org/tmp/hyp_pinch_checker.png
13:40.23brlcadtgc has the right number of vertical sections for that scaling (10), hyp also seems to be starting from a different angle
13:41.34brlcadafter that, that just leaves the make, mirror, and gui additions and I think it'll be done! .. very cool work :-)
13:41.45brlcadprepares an announcement
13:41.53brlcadalso packs for his flight
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16:42.11andrecastelo_good morning all
16:42.18andrecastelo_have a good flight, brlcad :)
16:43.27dtidrowbrlcad: where are you headed?
17:43.43andrecastelobrlcad: i've found rt_pt_node and the files that use it, so I will update everything to handle rt_pt_node with bu_lists
17:49.18yukonbobhello, cadheads
17:49.50andrecastelohey hi yukonbob
17:59.41andrecastelohttp://rafb.net/p/vif2oc76.html
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19:00.55brlcadandrecastelo: still in route
19:01.14brlcaddtidrow: was up in NY, now heading back to baltimore
19:01.40brlcadandrecastelo: when you do that -- set up some profile tests so you can compare before and after
19:01.52brlcadI don't suspect it'sll be any worse, but it's worth a simple sanity check
19:02.25andrecasteloi see.. i'm correcting a little bug here in rtarea and will commit it, is that a problem?
19:03.16andrecastelothe rt_pt_node update to bu_list will affect rpc.c, ehy.c, epa.c, eto.c and rhc.c, so i need to change those as well
19:03.46andrecasteloare those primitives?
19:05.09brlcadandrecastelo: fixing bugs is *never* a problem ;)
19:05.21brlcadthose are all primitives you listed
19:05.39andrecasteloheheh, i mean commiting with the struct point_list, instead of rt_pt_node
19:05.43pacman87brlcad: is it possible to have two (or more) ways to give parameters to a primitive?
19:05.56pacman87ie, give the user the option of what data to input?
19:05.58brlcadright parabolic cylinder, elliptical hyperboloid, elliptical paraboloid, etc
19:06.37brlcadpacman87: not via the 'in' command
19:07.17brlcadit's pretty linear in letting the user specify parameters in one way consistently
19:07.24pacman87andrecastelo: the *.c files you mentioned are
19:08.14brlcadthe "make" command provides a different way to input data in a way, creates a default that fills the current view
19:08.20andrecastelobrlcad: i've taken a look at those files and the sections that use the structure, and made a few alterations, just a sec and i'll paste
19:08.33brlcadthen you can provide whatever editing options on the edit menu
19:09.11brlcadthat's the most common you'll find if there are other edit parameters (like increasing a length when length wasn't a creation parameter
19:11.01brlcadandrecastelo: if you test them to work, go ahead and commit the changes -- I can (and do) just as easily review the commit e-mails
19:11.22andrecastelook ok, i'll commit rtarea, it's ready
19:11.24brlcadif there's a problem, I'd ask you to revert .. that's where small commits helps for reviewing
19:11.44brlcadrtarea amounts to trying some test cases
19:11.48pacman87here's the changes i think you want, correct me if i missed anything:
19:11.48pacman87move vertex to center of bottom; change height to measure base to base; ellipse axes specify base dimensions; scale factor determines pinch
19:11.50brlcadboards his flight, waves
19:12.13pooliobrlcad: have a good flight :)
19:12.20poolioit's super hot here, don't die :(
19:13.47andrecastelohehe
19:13.54andrecastelohave a good flight, cya later
19:15.38CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31339 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewarea.c:
19:15.38CIA-21BRL-CAD: Added calculation of the presented area center. Added structure point_list, a
19:15.38CIA-21BRL-CAD: bu_list that holds points, and struct area got two lists - exp_points and
19:15.38CIA-21BRL-CAD: hit_points. The calculation of the center point is the same for both, but the
19:15.38CIA-21BRL-CAD: gathering of the points is different and this commit takes care of the
19:15.41CIA-21BRL-CAD: hit_points assembling.
19:17.29CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31340 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewarea.c: Added more comments in the area_center() function, as it was a bit unclear as what the for() was doing.
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22:09.34yukonbob.
23:35.27yukonbobbuild error for interested people: http://www.pastebin.ca/1041645
23:35.51yukonbob^--- bu_bomb issues w/ latest svn
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080608

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080608

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02:29.41brlcadarrives home with a quaint sigh of relaxation
02:29.53pacman87wb, brlcad
02:30.11brlcadthanks poolio .. though it was pretty much the same temp up in NY today as here, 90-something before I left
02:30.16brlcadthanks pacman87
02:30.30pacman87a question on the uv mapping
02:30.52brlcadk
02:30.58pacman87is each (u,v) point supposed to be unique?
02:31.05brlcadunique?
02:31.28pacman87ie, if i know the (u,v) coordinate, there's exactly one (x,y,z) coordinate on the shape
02:32.57pacman87because i have my base use 0<v<.25; the body uses .25<v<.75; and the top uses .75<v<1
02:34.04pacman87so if you use "s 10" on the checker, there's 5 squares on the sides
02:34.05brlcadan unique in the sense of there being a 1-to-1 mapping, yes that's ideal (but not strictly necessary for many modeling systems)
02:35.03pacman87the rec's you used in your example have 10 checker squares on the body, and 10 on each endplate
02:35.10brlcadyeah
02:36.05pacman87so it looks like the v coord ranges (0,1) three times; once for each face
02:38.01brlcadiirc, the intent is to treat the uv mapping as a volumetric mapping since these are applied as part of more complex CSG recipes
02:39.16pacman87hmm?
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03:01.32brlcadpacman87: i just meant that there's a variety of possible default uv mappings
03:01.51brlcadif we did this a lot, there'd be easier ways for users to define their own uv mappings
03:01.56pacman87http://brlcad.org/tmp/hyp_pinch_checker.png
03:02.08brlcadas it stands, though, it's taken to be like a volumetric mapping
03:02.16brlcadso you get the mapping effectivley from the inside out
03:02.32pacman87i switched the rotation since then, so lines up now
03:02.47brlcadwhich amounts to having the uv mapping per *surface* instead of per primitive
03:03.13brlcadcool
03:03.16pacman87if that's the standard way of doing it, i can fix that too
03:03.19brlcadwhat was the offset?
03:03.38pacman87i had x and y swithed in atan()
03:03.51brlcadah, nifty
03:04.05brlcadi actually figured it was something intentional going on in tgc that was different
03:04.16pacman87so should i switch to per-surface for UV?
03:04.28brlcadyeah, just so it's consistent
03:04.35brlcadthat's how all the other primitives behave
03:04.40pooliobrlcad: welcome home :)
03:04.43brlcadthere is a good reason to do as you suggest
03:05.08pacman87ok.  the problem i though of with that is for texture mapping, if you want to specify a different top/bottom texture
03:05.51brlcadto have a primitive-based uv mapping that is holistic instead of per-surface, but that'd really beg changing all the primitives and that'd definitely not be backwards compatible even if it is render-only
03:07.02brlcadpacman87: there are other ways, you can always composite the textures or specify that a given texture map with a v range of 1/3 etc
03:07.36brlcadgiven you specify one texture per object, you'd have to composite them anyways to get perface to work
03:08.11brlcadpoolio: danka
03:08.26pacman87from what i understand, the uv coords tell which pixel to grab from the texture image
03:09.04pacman87so if the same uv pair shows up on the top and the body, the same pixel will go there, right?
03:09.20brlcadwith a 0 to 1 uv domain, yes
03:09.45pacman87dont' all the primitives follow that?
03:10.03brlcadyou specify he uv domain when you add textures, so you could set the domain to be less or more as needed
03:10.11pooliobrlcad: so I've got sphere and right cylinder working...they don't raytrace right but I'm pretty sure they are correct. I was going to commit them but I think I'll wait til I get ell and a generalized algorithm for cylinders and just use that instead of having a whole mess of different code
03:10.35brlcadpoolio: so then why aren't you committing anything??
03:10.48brlcadthere's no need to wait for committing things
03:11.41pooliook...good point. commit working code and fix later :)
03:11.43brlcadalmost never, really, even if it's incomplete or even non-functional -- so long as the state is documented and it doesn't leave the compilation in a busted state
03:12.05brlcadcommit early, commit often
03:12.13brlcadfor new committers, you really can't commit too frequently
03:12.27pooliooy vey. i need to stamp that on my forehead
03:12.28brlcadseriously, if it compiles and is forward progress, commit
03:12.48brlcadcommit -m ftw
03:13.37brlcadsvn commit -m "yay, initial brep support for spheres isn't working yet" primitives/sph/sph_brep.cpp  etc
03:14.38brlcadthen it just sort of becomes a documented "save" step in your development progress and it tells a story
03:15.41brlcadreally likies http://brlcad.org/tmp/hyp.png ... I think that might have to go up on the wiki somewhere
03:16.41starseekercan upload it to the renders gallery
03:16.41pacman87you couldnt' get one where the checker dont' hit the middle of the edge?
03:16.52pacman87*checkers *don't
03:17.18pacman87my apostrophes never end up in the right place
03:17.51brlcadcould have, but I actually kind of like it that way
03:17.57pacman87ah
03:18.11pacman87well, once i fix the uv mapping, it'll be impossible ;)
03:18.15brlcad:)
03:18.21pooliobrlcad: is there no longer rt_sph_internal? just rt_ell_internal?
03:18.42pacman87in sph.s shp is stored as ell
03:19.28brlcadpacmac87, only in depth .. it should still wrap there
03:19.48brlcadi.e. white to white, black to black (at least for uv scale of 10)
03:20.34starseekerbrlcad: which is preferable - gallery or wiki?
03:20.39pacman87not if the top ellipse goes 0->1 and the side starts over again at 0
03:21.00brlcadstarseeker: depends on the purpose :)
03:21.25brlcadi think wiki myself, unless someone is going to make snazzy pictures of all of the primitives :)
03:21.46brlcada better version of my primitives overview
03:21.49starseekerheh - we could make an album and stick it in with the metaballs primitive
03:22.01starseekeralready a render of that up
03:24.23brlcadoh cool, I hadn't seen the GSI images were up
03:25.46starseekeryes, Rain did a good job with those
03:27.27brlcadoh, I got a database of almost 2000 polygonal models while I was up at the conference
03:27.34brlcadlots of fun to be had
03:28.03starseeker<jaw drops>
03:28.14starseekerwhat licensing terms?
03:29.36starseekersmacks head to get the idea of writing a docbook overview of all the primitives out of it...
03:30.52starseekerarrgh...
03:36.33starseekerding nab it, why does that sound like fun???
03:37.51brlcadit was fun to make it the first time
03:38.05brlcadchance to fix some things too
03:38.07starseekerah - well, it's not just me at least :-)
03:38.48starseekerwould probably go whole-hog though - equations describing primitives, key parameter descriptions and illustrations... maybe I'd better do it on my own time...
03:41.47brlcadwelp, since he will be working on some more, if you want to add a primitives album .. that is probably better than nothing, go for it
03:42.16starseekerk - it'll do for a start anwyay
03:42.42starseekerin diagrams or renders?
03:43.36starseekerwill stick it in renderings for now
03:45.56brlcadrenderings
03:46.27brlcadthe others are only in diagrams because they have labels .. diagramming what they are
03:46.55brlcadattempts to move the m1a1 pic so that it preserves the hit count
03:47.32pooliobrlcad: so you'll be worrying about coding all the plotting and raytracing of the BREP shapes? :D
03:48.00brlcadthey already plot in a simplistic form
03:48.11brlcadray-tracing is what I'm working on
03:48.34pooliobrlcad: The sphere I have plots half of an arc...that's it
03:48.35brlcadat least what I'm trying to work on
03:48.44brlcadthat sounds right
03:48.46poolio:)
03:48.54brlcadreally it does :)
03:49.05poolioThe raytracing looks decent...it's been gooing for aorund 5 minutes
03:49.06brlcadit plots the edges of the surface(s)
03:49.19brlcada sphere has just one surface
03:49.19poolioYou have a lot of purty debugging
03:49.26poolioah, makes sense
03:49.56brlcadthe left and right u parameters meet, the top and bottom collapse to a point
03:50.02brlcadso you're left with one arc
03:50.20brlcadand a surface that sweeps out a sphere
03:51.25poolioHehe, I'm still trying to fully understand the brep representation...I'm still resting on the crutches of the openNURBS fancy schmancy helper functions
03:52.01brlcadyeah, that might be good thing to go over on a thursday sometime
03:52.16brlcaded loves to talk about that
03:53.11poolioyeah that'd be great :)
03:53.49poolioI think I also just need to read throgh some intro CAD / 3d graphics stuff. I managed to get through all of last summer knowing zip about it
03:55.26pooliobrlcad: Is there a reason that the .cpp footers use C99 // comments? Woldn't it make more sense to keep it the same as the .c files?
03:55.30poolio(the headers are the same)
04:03.29starseekermetaballs had its rating survive when I moved it, once I enabled ratings in the target location
04:03.38starseekershould sleep now...
04:04.53brlcadugh, gallery is such an inefficient pig of a web app
04:06.16brlcadpoolio: no huge reason other than it being a few characters less and it distinguishes them as c++
04:06.36brlcadunlike c, // has been part of c++ since before it was ratified
04:06.53poolioAh ok. I was just thinking it'd be nice to keep a standard look even between C/C++
04:06.59brlcadso they're not "C99" comments in that file's context as it's never compiled by a c99 compiler
04:08.01brlcadI don't think it needs to be enforced as one way vs the other, rather insignificant
04:08.03pooliobrlcad: True, but coming from coding C forever, they are always C99 comments, no matter where I put them ;)
04:08.05brlcadif it's bothering you, go for it ;)
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04:08.17poolioEh it's fine, I was just like //woah!
04:08.41brlcadfair game in the c++ files ;)
04:09.20brlcadI actually like the "wrapped blocks" more regardless of it being c/c++ for that footer
04:09.39brlcadbut like I said, it just didn't matter and another project requested that footer.sh use //
04:09.54brlcad(template.sh uses header.sh and footer.sh)
04:10.06brlcad(for creating new files)
04:13.41starseekerHmm... http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/hyp_odd.png
04:14.01starseekerin test.s hyp 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 0 0 .4 .8
04:18.29brlcadthere have been 53k views of the gallery
04:18.58brlcadlooks like an imae for pacman87  :)
04:19.22brlcadnotes the my. is not needed
04:21.11thing0hey brlcad
04:21.17thing0how's things?
04:28.19brlcadhowdy thing0
04:28.26brlcadgoing great
04:28.38brlcadhow are things down under?
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04:36.17brlcadthat good, eh?
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06:09.18LeRuCh05 Hello!
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13:35.32pacman87starseeker: i noticed that too.  it's because your major axis isn't perpendicular to the height vector, and i haven't done any sanity checking to prevent that.
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14:54.59mafmallo
15:44.01pooliobrlcad: so I don't think I have commit access...?
15:49.10CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03poolio * r31341 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sph/sph_brep.cpp: initial brep support for spheres, nonfunctional
15:49.13poolioah neverminddd :)
16:27.15brlcadheh
16:27.22brlcadhowdy mafm
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18:09.02mafmdo all the code conventions apply for the rt^3 module?
18:09.56mafmor are they something left from old codebases?
18:25.24pooliomafm: as in the C code conventions in HACKING?
18:26.39mafmyep
18:26.48poolioI don't see why they wouldn't apply :)
18:27.36brlcadmafm: what in particular -- for the most part yes as the intent is still to be consistent across the project
18:27.53brlcadand most of the conventions for C still apply to C++
18:29.01mafmdunno... being a new module "cleanly" gives the opportunity to change something, without mixing conventions
18:29.31pooliobrlcad: Is it fine if I don't bother to update Makefiles and what not for now
18:30.13brlcadmafm: heh, there's nothing legacy about the choice of conventions ..
18:30.47brlcadpoolio: if you're adding new files, they should at least be added to EXTRA_DIST even if they're not added to the build
18:30.53brlcadso that they are included in source distribution
18:30.58mafmi.e. I think that people lately tends to use tabs for indentation, so it can be configured the size of a tab in different IDEs
18:31.37brlcadeh, I figured that was where you were probably going with that
18:31.40brlcadand it's just not true
18:32.07brlcadthere are plenty of ws conventions and zealotry of preferences raging throughout projects for different styles
18:32.20brlcadthere are at least a half dozen "exceptionally popular" styles
18:32.37brlcadand just about every IDE lets you configure it to suit any of them
18:34.13brlcadthe real need in that case is to just be consistent, and to enforce that consistency
18:35.15mafmoki :)
18:38.01brlcadit's mostly just familiarity .. the more code you write in different styles, the more I think you'll find that it just really doesn't matter
18:38.03mafmshould I modify the RtApplication and the rest of placeholder classes directly?
18:38.06brlcadthere are tradeoffs to each
18:38.53brlcadI was thinking that you'd add your own directory
18:38.59brlcadnot the rt^3 dir
18:39.38brlcadyou can use the structure as a template or not
18:39.56brlcadthe existing source isn't so important, it can totally change if needed
18:40.53mafm3dge? :)
18:41.10brlcadheh
18:41.20brlcadif that's what you want to call it, go for it :)
18:41.32brlcadclever
18:42.41mafmjust made it up now... hadn't thought of it
18:43.51brlcadI have had a name in mind for several years now but it's not time to start using that yet :)
18:44.01brlcadneed the geometry engine and plugin architecture first
18:44.32pacman87brlcad: what tolerance should i put on the check to see if two vectors a perpendicular?
18:44.47pacman87NEAR_ZERO( VDOT( rip->hyp_H, rip->hyp_Au ), SMALL_FASTF )?
18:47.28brlcadRT_DOT_TOL
18:48.48CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31342 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/hyp/hyp.c: change uv() to conform to standard practice; (u,v) coords are unique per face, not per primitive
18:51.22pacman87brlcad: is there a valid reason for allowing the major axis vector to be non-perpendicular to the height?
18:53.59brlcadyou mean the major axis of the ellipse?
18:54.02pacman87yes
18:54.21pacman87re: starseeker's picture
18:54.58brlcadunless it's actually going to act like a tgc and allow end caps be at angles, I don't see a need
18:55.39pacman87ok, then my fix to starseeker's problem is to say "that's not allowed"
18:55.59brlcadwell, if it's not allowed, it shouldn't allow one to be made
18:56.11brlcadwith checks during in and export
18:56.14pacman87right, that's my next commit :)
18:56.39pacman87i haven't done any sanity checking for inputs yet
18:57.22brlcadnow I do think that there's no need to limit the A/B ellipse vectors
18:58.09brlcadi.e. instead of taking input for major and then saying minor must be <= .. just take a vector and the perpendicular distance, then have the in command figure out which then is major/minor
18:58.15brlcadminor usability nit
18:58.31pacman87ah, ok
18:58.45brlcadsince you can obviously swap them and it'll be fine
18:59.00pacman87and calculate the new major axis vector
18:59.06brlcadyeah
19:00.43CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31343 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/typein.c: add check to ensure ellipse's major axis is perpendicular to the height vector when creating a hyp or ehy using 'in'
19:01.15mafmhmmm, what happens when you include a header when in your include path there are several with the same name? only one is inserted?
19:05.19brlcadfirst one the preprocessor encounters
19:05.39brlcadwhich is based on the -I cpp_flags/paths
19:15.36brlcadstarseeker: is oedtmp still needed?
19:15.48brlcadremoved the A's
19:17.30starseekerbrlcad:  opps - nope, sorry
19:18.08starseekerstrictly speaking, oed isn't either until I figure out the xsl fun
19:18.26starseekermy initial attempt didn't do squat
19:19.27starseekercleaned up
19:19.40brlcadeep
19:19.45brlcadwas playing in oed/
19:20.00brlcadoh well :)
19:20.24mafmwhat's oed?
19:20.46brlcada tutorial he wrote on the oed command
19:20.49brlcadobject editing
19:20.49pacman87how do i add an '!' to my commit message?
19:21.10brlcadpacman87: use single quotes or the editor
19:21.36pacman87single quotes around the -m message, or around the !?
19:21.36brlcadthere's a way to escape it in a double-quoted message, but I forget exactly
19:21.44brlcadaround the -m
19:22.03pacman87ok, i tried \! earlier, and it printed both characters
19:22.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31344 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/typein.c: hyp now accepts a minor axis length larger than the given major axis, and recalculates the direction of the major axis. Also includes logic fix for previous commit NEAR_ZERO -> !NEAR_ZERO
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19:49.57mafmheh, RBGui feels snappy
19:55.08mafmbrlcad: LGPL v2.1 or v3?
19:55.14brlcad2.1
19:55.47brlcadshould be using the same headers as for the reset of the brlcad sources
19:57.34brlcadif you've got things working .. there should be some commits coming soon then? :)
19:59.32mafmI thought that I saw the LGPLv3 flying around in the new module... it must be because of the 3 in Rt^3 :D
20:00.27mafmThe commits yep, but I hope that you accept half-working stuff, it needs a lot of infrastructure (data files, etc)
20:01.35mafmdo you think that "3dge" could give any problem?  when compiling it was complaining because 3DGE_WHATEVER_H was not a valid name, so I changed it to __NAME__ (as it's in other files of rtgeom and the like)
20:02.07mafmbut that made me thought if it could bring some problems in other parts as well, starting the name with a number
20:02.14mafmnumber->digit
20:07.24pacman87mafm: you could try edg3
20:08.06brlcadmafm: yep, half-working something is better than fully-working nothing ;)
20:08.32pacman87brlcad: i've got your new and improved hyp input method coming right up :)
20:08.49pacman87though it seems my uv mapping fix didn't fix everything
20:08.53brlcadyeah, symbols (vars, functions, etc) can't start with a number
20:09.18brlcadhaving a dir named that shouldn't be a problem
20:09.24brlcadnor bin target
20:09.32brlcadpacman87: cool :)
20:09.52pacman87i just changed hyp_in(), all the internal data is still stored the same
20:10.55mafmmaybe ge3d? geometry editor 3d? but the pun was to change the m in mged ;)
20:12.04brlcadheh, g3d would be interesting
20:12.18brlcadas mged's original name was "ged"
20:12.31mafmI know that dirs etc is not a problem [in modern systems], but who knows... maybe it gives problems in target names for MSVC or things like that
20:12.50mafmok, so g3d be it
20:13.26brlcadah, see I took it to be clever because it was 3dge -> edge -> new interface uses an explicit polygonal representation for visualization, i.e. an "edge-based" representation
20:13.43brlcadbut the mged angle (pun intended) is clever too
20:14.02brlcadg3d is nice and succinct, though
20:14.27brlcadthough there is .. http://g3d-cpp.sourceforge.net/
20:15.38mafmyep, but well... that would be the g3d tool in brl-cad similar to the other gazillion ones, not a full product name I guess?
20:16.08mafmnowadays anything with 3d in the name is probably taken anyway :D
20:16.58brlcadyeah, it shouldn't matter so much just yet as it can be basically considered the internal dev name
20:18.22mafmwell, you know how it works... in the end nobody renames just for the pain of renaming files and so on
20:18.36brlcadsometimes
20:19.19mafmand about the commits, I meant half-working because in brlcad-trunk you require people not broking things, checking performances and so on
20:19.20brlcadexcept in this case, if everything works out as planned, this is going to be the foundation for the "next-generation" editing interface that eventually replaces mged
20:19.58brlcadmafm: yeah, though even on trunk there is ways to do that for a project such as yours incrementally without breaking things
20:20.18brlcadit's a new code, so it's expected that it'll be a work in progress
20:20.42brlcadthe breaking things applies mostly to existing code and interfaces, and not leaving the compilation in a broken state
20:21.05brlcadit's easy to not leave the compilation in a broken state on new files, don't compile those files :)
20:27.17mafmyup
20:28.05mafmwell, I should be going home, and I only have the main.cxx in state to commit (clean, proper doxygen, etc)
20:28.21mafmshould I commit it or wait for the test Application tomorrow?
20:29.06pacman87mafm: i'm pretty sure the answer to that question is almost always 'commit now'
20:29.30starseekerbrlcad: whoooops! sorry!
20:29.58starseekerbrlcad:  I can put it back...
20:31.07mafmpacman87: well, it's 3 lines worth of code...!
20:31.36pacman87i've committed changes of less than three lines
20:32.24pacman87and it's a good habit to get into
20:33.04mafmOK, I'll do
20:33.31mafmbut this is different than regular changes... it's main() and calls a non-existing class in the repository :D
20:34.57pacman87like brlcad said, don't add it to the makefile then
20:35.24pacman87but hey, it's your call
20:38.14brlcadstarseeker: too late and no matter :)
20:38.47brlcadmafm: it doesn't matter
20:38.52brlcadyou sould still commit everything you have
20:40.25brlcadit's a hard practice for some to get used to but you will eventually appreciate it, particularly the more you get used to making incremental functional commits
20:40.26mafmcan't commit everything, part is still application example of RBgui
20:40.28brlcad~pacman87++
20:40.57brlcadso?
20:41.12mafmcopyright!
20:41.34brlcadyou're not claiming copyright on their code
20:43.30brlcadat least commit the code that you've written and been working on
20:43.36mafmwell, if you don't mind not following coding conventions, no doxygen etc, it's OK for me
20:43.49brlcadthat's part of the "compile works, time to commit" habit
20:43.59brlcadheh, it's not like you're going to be done with it
20:44.19brlcadit's not an excuse to not do those things, you're just checkpointing
20:44.48brlcadso if you got, you know, hit by a bus tonight .. we'd have the last state of your efforts to continue on from :)
20:45.18pacman87or if your next door neighbor sets off an EMP...
20:45.37pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/hyp_rt16.png
20:45.45mafmyes, I get the point, and I always submit several times a day... but usually not in the case that I'm using testing applications
20:46.01brlcadtragic exaggeration of course, but it's all part of getting you to learn to code in "complete" steps
20:46.23brlcadmafm: okay, fair enough .. if you have test apps, you can leave them out
20:46.38mafmtoo late, I already made the patches :P
20:46.51brlcadbut so far there hasn't been any commits, so it smells more of uneasy first-time commiter
20:46.59mafmbtw, I had to diff against /dev/null
20:47.05brlcadhuh?
20:47.17mafmchanged the name by hand, hope that there's no problem
20:47.36mafmwell, svn diff doesn't work, I guess that it's because of being in a new directory
20:47.52brlcadyou have to svn add the new directory and new files first
20:47.58mafm(not present upstream)
20:48.02brlcadthen they'll be in a diff
20:48.42mafmhmm, can I add dirs as anonymous?
20:48.42brlcadsure, at least I'm pretty sure
20:48.42brlcadthat's a local operation
20:48.49mafmah ok
20:49.07brlcad(unlike cvs where cvs adding a new dir made a commit)
20:49.32CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31345 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/typein.c: change hyp input routine: vertex is now center of base; major/minor axes define the base size; height measures from bottom to top plate; c is now the squeeze factor for the neck, as a fraction of the base size
20:50.02brlcadwoot!
20:50.24brlcadgoes giddily to play with a hyp
20:50.27CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31346 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/hyp/hyp.c: modify hyp's uv() to match with rec to produce a continuous checker pattern
20:50.36pacman87now you can go have fun :)
20:56.45mafmsent first patches, goes to hide his head in shame :P
20:57.02mafmnot really, going home to get some food & sleep :)
20:57.13mafmsee you tomorrow!
20:57.28brlcadheh, okay!  cya :)
21:00.13brlcadthinks it's time for a new poll
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22:50.57``Erikthinks it's time for this "code monkeys" show O.o
22:53.32pooliobrlcad: the older poll is quite interesting...shows that a good website good lead to a lot more users IMO :)
22:59.25brlcadooh, code monkeys!
23:00.31brlcadpoolio: yeah, it is about what I expected (that 90% of our visitors are first-time visitors, along with a few first-time users)
23:03.42``Eriktime to impress jodi foster O.o
23:08.30brlcadum, hello? breasts?
23:10.11brlcadchock full of good quotes :)
23:10.20``Erik<-- fights the urge to implement some of these games :D
23:11.22``Erikthe bars at te top and bottom are hilarious
23:24.40brlcadmakes himself more comfortable
23:53.55pacman87brlcad et al: how's the new hyp creation working?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080609

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080609

00:17.54*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.15.124)
00:19.19andrecastelohowdy brlcad, ``Erik and pacman87
00:20.03pacman87hi andrecastelo
00:20.09poolioI resent that andrecastelo  ;)
00:20.26andrecastelohowdy poolio ! heheh :D
00:55.42yukonbobevening, cadheads
01:20.55pacman87hi yukonbob
01:41.31yukonbobhey pacman87  -- how're things?
02:05.19PrezKennedyhowdy brlcad!
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04:37.34brlcadahh
04:38.52starseekernotices the science overlay has an ebuild for salome
04:41.59brlcadstarseeker: are you on the news mailing list?
04:43.04*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=timothy@71.170.63.120) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
04:43.04brlcador better yet, has anyone received a message today from the brlcad-news mailing list?
04:43.05starseekerchecks...
04:43.13*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=timothy@71.170.63.120) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
04:43.19starseekerno, just the devel list
04:43.20brlcadpacman87: welcome back :)
04:43.23starseekermoves to correct this...
04:43.25brlcadhrmph
04:43.34brlcadoh, you're only on devel, got it
04:45.05starseekeris subscribed now, but doubts that helps with the immediate problem...
04:46.17starseekerchuckles as gentoo pulls opencascade from freebsd.org
04:47.40starseekerbrlcad:  IIRC the opencascade license is somewhat odd?
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04:50.33brlcadyeah, rather horribly worded license
04:51.00brlcadsomewhat sketchy terms
04:51.32starseekerwonders if they ever publicly justified the reasons for the one-off license?
04:55.16starseekergets "welcome to brlcad-news" email, if that helps any...
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04:57.15homovulgarishi Sean, u there ?
04:57.22brlcadnope
04:57.37homovulgarishuh :O
04:57.52brlcad~ask
04:57.53ibothmm... ask is Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
04:58.09starseekerhe must have been killed and replaced by the AI bot he was working on...
04:58.19starseeker:-P
04:58.24homovulgaris:P
04:58.37homovulgarisanyways.. i have been living without internet for around 5 days now..
04:58.40homovulgarisit is a disaster
04:58.58starseekerow
05:00.12brlcadapparently so
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05:01.14brlcadwell sorry to hear that.. glad to see you were able to find the intarwebs eventually ;)
05:01.39homovulgarisbrlcad: i will commit tomorrow hopefully when the network comes  up :(
05:02.10homovulgarisliterally worst five days i have had in a long time .. maybe i am a net addict :O --> self-realization
05:02.36homovulgarisi dont have all the data i have been working with but i think i can still discuss it if you are free
05:03.24homovulgarisbasically i started a new directory libpc which contains most of the code, a new pc.h header containing the structures in include
05:03.54homovulgarisinside librt i started a new file pc_constraint.c which implement pc_constraint_export and pc_constraint_import
05:04.03homovulgaristhe import part i havent written
05:04.42homovulgaristhen i have made a simple mk_constraint function for now inside libpc
05:05.43brlcadnow libpc instead of libpg?
05:05.49homovulgarisInside libpc i have also defined generate_parameters function , the idea of which basically is.. if you pass a directory pointer to it , it generates a parameter set of all possible handles
05:06.26homovulgarisyeah i thought parametrics and constraints are significant .. i mean Parametrics & Constraints rather than parametric geometry
05:07.30homovulgarisand a write_parameter_set function which basically writes the parameter set as an (attribute value) array to the db using update_attributes
05:07.46homovulgarisi hope i am not messing up any of the function names from memory :P
05:07.59brlcadit all sounds good and well without seeing the code structure itself ;)
05:08.10homovulgaris:) i know
05:08.55homovulgarishey sean, regarding librt integration.. the way i have implemented it presently is , so that we still use the librt functions to write stuff to db
05:08.59brlcadthe exact function names aren't significant at this point other than consistently prefixing the calls with the library prefix
05:09.25brlcadthat's good
05:09.36brlcadlibrt should be the gatekeeper for all db io
05:09.59homovulgarisi am finding using the attribute system for storing parameters a little bit too verbose
05:11.03brlcadthe question we'd talked about earlier was whether to create a new non-geometric db object or using attributes
05:11.10homovulgarisbut i am not able to think of a better way to handle it without extending the database system to a new version or defining a new object type just to hold the "handles" or parameters of the existing geometry object
05:11.21brlcadno doubt that using attributes is more verbose
05:12.00brlcadi thought we'd settled on using a new db object actually after the last discussion
05:12.11homovulgarisfor storing the equations or constraints we do need a non-geometric object which i have defined.
05:12.25brlcadokay, then what are you using attributes for then?
05:12.55homovulgarisfor each geometric type there are a certain list of variables or parameters u can change right.. for denoting them
05:14.20homovulgarislike for example in the case of a sphere ( radius,center-x,center-y,center-z) whether they are parametric or explicit, is there some domain restriction ( 0<radius < fastf_t_MAX )
05:15.26homovulgarisadding a new object for each and every variable of a geometric object seems overkill
05:16.24brlcadthere are implicitly a list of vars/params.. it'll take a bit of effort to make that list explicit through a generic interface
05:16.36homovulgarisso i was thinking we could use the attribute system for storing that data.. since in a sense it is the attribute of the sphere after all. but the verbosity is making me think about shifting that infomration as well to an object type somehow
05:17.04brlcadthat list of variables/parameters is in the library itself, not persisted to the db
05:17.41homovulgarisdidnt get it
05:18.33brlcadso say you want to make a sphere .. it has radius and position values that are stored already
05:18.41homovulgarisok
05:18.42brlcadthat much doesn't need to change
05:18.50homovulgarisright
05:19.10brlcadbut say now we want to add a constraint that the radius must be > 100mm
05:19.24homovulgarisok
05:19.55brlcadthat requires knowledge that "radius" is something that can be constrained on a sphere, which is something the sphere primitive itself needs to declare
05:20.28brlcadas part of librt, i.e. src/librt/primitives/sph would have some logic that says that radius and position are two things that can be parameterized
05:20.53brlcadnow we need to create the actual constraint
05:21.07homovulgarisyeah that is the ideal way to do it :) so we should change the geometry description u men
05:21.10brlcadfor that, there's a new db constraint object
05:21.54brlcadthat db constraint object will refer to something like sph.radius or some other defined nomenclature for saying it applies to a given sphere's radius
05:22.00homovulgarisif the sphere is able to declare the fact that it has two variables for example , then things should be simple
05:22.14homovulgaristhe question is, how do we represent which of the parameters are variable or parametric and which are constant
05:22.22brlcadI think it needs to
05:22.41homovulgarislike in this case we need to say that only radius is the only variable and position is not
05:22.57homovulgaristhat data needs to be stored in db right
05:23.43brlcadsaying that radius is variable and position is sound like two constraints to me
05:23.58brlcads/constraints/parameters/
05:25.11brlcadso by default, all parameters defined by the primitive could be changed like they can now -- you'd create a constraint object to restrict that further (e.g. radius > 100 && position == immutable)
05:25.22homovulgarisok so we put two constraints ( position fixed) and (radius >100) ?
05:25.30brlcadyeah
05:25.44homovulgarishmm
05:25.58homovulgaristhis way we wont need generate_parameters and similar functions
05:26.27brlcadhasn't seen the code, so agrees :)
05:26.55homovulgaris:D
05:27.14brlcadnow what isn't clear, maybe you've sorted out already, is how to create generic equations that can be applied
05:27.54brlcadand stored/referenced in the db as distinct generic function objects
05:28.06brlcador if it's even worth dealing with that right now
05:28.14homovulgaristo store the equations i was thinking of using a stack with postfix or prefix which refers to these parameters.
05:28.46homovulgarisbasically for the whole solution part i was planning on using c++
05:29.37brlcadthat should be fine, you'll just have to have a well-defined abstraction into librt so you don't infect it type-wise :)
05:29.54homovulgarishopefully :)
05:30.10brlcadnecessarily
05:30.20homovulgarisobviously :)
05:30.46homovulgarisregarding storage
05:31.09homovulgariswhat if i just store the stack as a string in the .g file ?
05:31.40homovulgarisand when you import it, it generates the constraint_network graph
05:31.49brlcadthat should be fine
05:32.04brlcadespecially since the objects are referred to by string references necessarily anyways
05:32.06homovulgaristhe edges in the graph are these equations ( like sph.1_r>1000)
05:32.28brlcadthere may be value, though, in storing the operators and values in binary
05:32.34brlcadespecially the values
05:32.45brlcadfor precision
05:33.08homovulgarishmm.. so names i store as string and values and operators i convert to binary
05:33.51brlcadyeah, probably ideal
05:35.24brlcadmaybe something like STR sph.1_r INT 1000 OP >  
05:35.33brlcadwhere str, int, and op are some binary code
05:36.11brlcadso you push values onto a ministack when importing, and perform operations as needed for each equation
05:36.49brlcadI don't mean that exact string, only "sph.1_r" would be a chars in that example, the rest would be network encoded
05:36.50homovulgarisfor representing the solution of any individual parameter i was thinking of struct parameter_soln { int n_domains; struct domains * d[] } ; where struct domain { double min; double max}
05:37.13homovulgarismakes sense :)
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05:38.36homovulgarishi pacman87
05:38.55brlcada fixed array of domains?
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05:40.53homovulgariswell a dynamic array of domains
05:41.01brlcadyou could use a simple bu_list of domains
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05:41.33homovulgarisbu_list is a linked list right ?
05:41.38brlcadthey're a pretty simple container
05:41.43brlcadyeah, doubly linked lists
05:41.48homovulgarisok.
05:42.02homovulgarisi still have to figure out how to solve equations like r<1000
05:42.05brlcadyou create your own data type (i.e. struct domain), and just add bu_list as the first element
05:42.25brlcadthat automatically makes it a linkable structure
05:42.33homovulgariskewl :)
05:42.48brlcadthere's an example in bu.h
05:43.40homovulgarisok
05:43.58brlcadyou're basically implementing a simple lamba calculus for evaluating the expressions
05:44.21brlcadthe same evaluation that lets you do a == b should work for c > d, etc
05:44.39brlcadgiving truth values for each result that tell if the parameters hold
05:45.15brlcadat least that handles all constraints, evaluating equations is a bit different of course
05:46.09homovulgarishmm.. ( need to do more reading :))
05:47.55homovulgarispacman87: sorry, but my svn is 6 days old :) did u rename the tentry in table.c to lesser than 8 characters. i was getting a compiler warning, initializer string too long.. you are the one wokring on hyperboloid right ?
05:48.28brlcadhomovulgaris: it's since changed, it's less
05:49.01homovulgarisand then again there is the case of generic equations which can themselves be complex
05:49.06brlcadit was increased, breaking binary compatibility, then reverted/renamed to something less than 8 chars to avoid that (and it wasn't necessary)
05:49.12brlcadit's a 'hyp' primitive now
05:49.28homovulgarislike 2nd degree polynomials in 2 variables and so on.
05:49.36homovulgarisoh.. i realy need to update :)
05:50.40homovulgarispacman87: the uv mapping looks ultra cool :)
05:52.38homovulgarisi will go think about how to make geometry declare their variables to the world :)
05:52.45brlcadvery cool: http://brlcad.org/gallery/s/renderings/primitives/hyp.png.html  :)
05:53.47homovulgarissee you tonight again hopefully on my computer hopefully :)
05:54.59brlcadi think each primitive's list of their variables is close to the class of entity types you listed
05:55.38homovulgarishmmm.. true
05:56.59brlcadpoints, lines, planes, axes, corners, circles, curves
05:58.30brlcade.g. sphere probably only has a point and an axis, whereas an arb8 would have 8 points, 6 planes, 12 lines, and an axis
06:00.45brlcadwas talking with a professor from IIT Kanpur just last week at a conference
06:01.09homovulgarishehe.. was he a nice guy ?
06:01.20brlcadoh sure
06:01.29brlcadit's a small highly technical conference
06:01.47homovulgarison cad ?
06:01.51brlcadwe talked for quite a while about open source
06:01.53brlcadand gsoc
06:02.02homovulgaris:) nice
06:02.04brlcadon solid and physical modeling
06:02.44homovulgariswhat is his name ?
06:03.08brlcadi actually don't remember atm, I'd have to look up his paper
06:03.39homovulgaris:) lots of good professors in india at IITs
06:03.50homovulgarislots of not so good ones also .. but still :D
06:05.01brlcadmm.. would be really interesting to have the primitives also define their constraints, and then use the library to ensure they're held
06:05.20brlcadthat might even make a good first step before trying to sort out the db io
06:05.44brlcadsince all primitives had implicit constraints
06:05.45homovulgarishmmm.. define their constraints in the sense the self constraints right ?
06:05.50brlcadright
06:06.03homovulgarislike for the sphere ? the implicit restrictions on radius ?
06:06.05brlcada sphere can't have a negative or infinite radius, for example
06:06.46brlcadand more specifically, since the parameters for a sphere are technically the same as that of an ellipsoid, there's an A and B vector for parameters
06:07.07homovulgarisbasically this declaration would involve adding new functions to each geometry type right
06:07.08brlcadand the constraint is that |A| == |B| for it to be a sphere
06:07.40homovulgarisi meant the declaration of constraints and parameters to the world
06:07.58homovulgarislike new functions in g_ell or g_arb8
06:08.02brlcadone callback function that returns a table should suffice
06:08.17homovulgarisyeah new function sorry :)
06:09.56homovulgarisand where would the code which calls the library to ensre the constraint holding be located ?
06:35.04CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31347 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/hyp/hyp.c: add some basic sanity checks on the uv range, mapping is still slightly off with a rotation offset on the u values and incorrect count
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07:38.23brlcadhmms and thinks thinks he just needs to keep going
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09:34.48brlcadquad charts suck
09:35.02clock_brlcad: what's a quad chart?
09:35.36brlcadan imposed format that tries to categorize information into 4 specific bins
09:35.43clock_lol
09:35.51clock_some kind of mind mapping tool?
09:36.07brlcadnah, just business junk
09:36.08clock_categorizes information into one specific dustbin
09:36.18clock_brlcad: :)
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09:47.40mafmhello
09:52.12brlcadhowdy mafm
09:52.20brlcadbuenos dias!
10:00.27mafmhi
10:00.32mafmyou have strange sleep habits, don't you? :D
10:00.41pooliomornin'
10:00.41clock_brlcad: you can speak spanish?
10:00.49pooliobrlcad: way to ... sleep
10:01.56clock_A friend is designing his own beds, lamps etc. and using some commercial software I don't remember the name
10:02.12clock_Should I suggest BRL-CAD? Does it run under Windows good enough for an end user as well?
10:03.29brlcadmafm: heh, you could say that ..
10:04.12brlcaddoesn't generally like sleeping
10:05.10clock_finds falling asleep boring
10:05.14mafmI don't either, but I have to
10:06.21brlcadnonsense! just have to train your body to expect less :)
10:07.00brlcadbody is exceptionally resiliant and adaptive if you force it
10:07.32brlcadclock_: it runs just fine under windows -- if they're as smart and adaptive as you are, then sure
10:07.46clock_they are smart but not sure if they are adaptive :)
10:07.53brlcadin general though, you are a bit exceptional as for a modeler getting up to speed quickly and adapting to your needs
10:08.14clock_they use windows and they paid for commercial program maybe they will want to find psychological reasons to not admit their bad financial decision :)
10:08.51clock_brlcad: you mean I am exceptional in adapting to BRL-CAD? Ordinary user would advance slower?
10:33.50*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin (i=cbc85f82@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-fca99bf11cf4a3d0)
10:33.59hippieindamakinhey guys
10:34.12clock_hippieindamakin: hey
10:34.33hippieindamakinmay i have the link to the svn of brlcad java trunk ?
10:36.21clock_hippieindamakin: BRLCAD in java?
10:36.54hippieindamakinyeah there are some programs written in java man
10:37.33hippieindamakinwanted to get a reference and for some reason sourceforge doesnt openup
10:39.21hippieindamakinnevermind i reached there..
10:41.29hippieindamakinclock_: http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/jbrlcad/ this is wat i meant
10:41.53mafmbrlcad: I've already had problems for not getting enough sleep
10:41.59brlcadclock_: something like that,  you're pretty much the ideal/intended user type that dives in, isn't afraid to script tools, can tie things together, etc
10:42.26brlcadhippieindamakin: just like the main repo, but jbrlcad instead of brlcad
10:42.28brlcad~cadsvn
10:42.31ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
10:42.48brlcadso this:  https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/jbrlcad/trunk jbrlcad
10:42.53hippieindamakinhey mafm and brlcad
10:44.00mafmhi hippieindamakin
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11:13.08starseekerhas finally encountered something worse than BRL-CAD for gentoo ebuild creation...
11:13.19starseekerstares in awe at the SALOME gentoo bug history...
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12:44.16clock_The dating all boils down to the looks, and the looks boil down to the gym ;-)
12:44.28clock_brlcad: was it you who attends gym or was it ``Erik?
12:57.55mafmuh
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13:47.57``Erikbrlcad is the gym monkey, my idea of exercise is the 12oz curl :D
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15:04.19pacman87morning, all
15:04.28mafmmorning
15:35.18``Erikneato, bzflag has shadows, tracks, and textures now O.o
15:35.38pacman87``Erik: um... what was the last version you tried?
15:35.59``Erikd'no, about 5 years ago
15:36.09pacman87that explains it ;)
15:36.53``Erikdodging is difficult with no 'strafe' type motion
15:37.26pacman87what server are you on?
15:37.36``Erikand being able to aim seperate from trvel would be neat (like keys for movement and mouse for turret)
15:37.47``Erikuh, some 'BRL.something' one?
15:37.59``Erikdesert something-or-rather
15:38.44``Eriki was dicking with macports, noticed it in the games dir, so *shrug* threw it on and jumped on one... couldn't find the name of one on brlcad's machine
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16:35.34mafmbrlcad: when I submit next patches, should be the whole file or related with the patches yesterday?
18:04.18mafmping!
18:15.26mafmomfg I killed the channel!!!!111!!!
18:17.47louipcpong
18:19.26mafm:)
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18:59.43pacman87do the triangular faces for tess() need to be (counter)clockwise, or does the direction not matter?
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20:33.16mafm@brlcad and maybe other gsoc mentors: I'm waiting on what to do with my patches to either create new patches based on them, or submit new ones with the full content of the files, etc
20:33.21mafmin the meantime: http://wainu.ii.uned.es/~mafm/brlcad/brlcad_rbgui_20080609-1.png
20:33.57mafmheading home now, see you tomorrow
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22:24.16poolio``Erik: where were you today? :)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080610

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080610

00:29.53*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
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02:39.52CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31348 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Check for situations where a pre-existing file conflicts with the name to be used for the .g file, and refuse to overwrite if a file is found.
02:40.52starseekerhas heard speculation that the way Mathematica was created was they wrote the documentation, and then made the software do what they had documented.
02:41.00starseekeris starting to believe it
02:50.00pooliostarseeker: it's great software :) One of my professor's was working on a bunch of extensions for it.
03:02.36starseekerprefers Maxima and Axiom, but must agree Mathematica is good stuff
03:04.17starseekerreflects that the change in tire behavior is user visible and realizes he should have updated the NEWS file... darn it...
03:08.42CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31349 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
03:08.42CIA-22BRL-CAD: Changed default behavior of tire command to avoid silently overwriting
03:08.42CIA-22BRL-CAD: pre-existing files if the user supplies their names or has a pre-existing tire.g
03:08.42CIA-22BRL-CAD: file in the same directory - it now exits and prints an error message.
03:09.33starseekeralright, that should be everything... sleep time :-)
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03:55.51yukonbobevening, cadheads
06:43.46brlcadstarseeker: bu_file_exists()
07:24.18brlcadso there's a new cad on the open source block, hopefully he'll keep it up
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07:57.57archivistnoo cad? a name?
08:37.32brlcadshame he's got a nibm attitude, but well see what comes of it
08:53.16brlcadpoolio: sph_brep.cpp .. file header is bunk for several reasons
08:54.03brlcadif you delete the header and run sh/header.sh lgpl src/librt/primitives/shp/sph_brep.cpp   it'll create what should be there
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09:41.48andrecastelogood morning folks
09:54.53andrecasteloreads logs
09:59.41*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
10:00.06mafmhey
10:17.19brlcadhowdy guys
10:24.17mafmnot bad
10:24.38mafmholidays in Portugal, so full day to work with BRL-CAD! \o/
10:30.12andrecastelohowdy brlcad.. i had internet problems sunday and yesterday i had to be at the university the whole day
10:31.27andrecasteloi'll have to go there now, will be back in 4 hours tops, but probably will have the rest of the day to work on BRL-CAD
10:31.35andrecastelocya later
10:35.20CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31350 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (. main.cxx): Initial patch for the 3D Geometry Editor, the entry point of the application.
10:37.19mafmsvn is making strange things with the files >:[
10:40.00mafmrt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Application.h : svn:mime-type is not set
10:40.29mafmthis happened with .cxx too... but I fixed it by hand, knowing that maybe .cxx is not a very popular extension
10:40.40mafmbut .h ...?!?!!!? :)
10:41.01brlcadwoo hoo! congratulations on commit :)
10:41.31brlcadsvn doesn't know about any file types by default
10:42.03brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Developer_Documents#I.27m_trying_to_add_a_new_file_to_the_repository_and_I_get_an_error_on_commit_about_mime_types.__What_should_I_do.3F
10:44.18mafmit's the 1st time that happens to me
10:44.47brlcadit's the first time you've committed :)
10:45.00brlcad(to our repository at least)
10:45.22mafmyes, but not from this computer with SVN
10:45.34brlcadthere are commit hooks that validate the mime types
10:45.34mafmand not with any previous computer either
10:45.52mafmthe hooks are specifically for BRL-CAD?
10:46.02brlcadso you've only worked with repositories that don't have their mime types enforced
10:46.23brlcadhooks are always repository specific
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10:46.38mafmah, I see
10:46.39brlcadmoin d_rossberg
10:46.55mafmnow, I set by hand mime-type:text/x-cpp for .cxx
10:46.59d_rossbergguten morgen!
10:47.11mafmshould I revert it and put as in your .svn/config?
10:47.14mafmhi d_rossberg
10:49.15brlcadmafm: it shouldn't matter
10:50.06brlcadI don't, however, see text/x-cpp as an officially designated IANA mime type
10:50.40brlcadwhere's text/plain is
10:51.28mafmI copied it from here, my fault: http://www.noah.org/wiki/SVN_auto-props
10:51.32brlcadprobably just happens to work out okay because probably most application handlers just key off the entire text/ subset
10:51.49brlcadmafm: I figured
10:51.57brlcadthat doesn't mean they didn't make up their own mime types
10:52.21brlcadlots of folks make up mime types without realizing that there's actually an official registration process
10:52.34brlcadhttp://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/
10:53.08brlcadthere may be some caveat about x- extensions in the rfc, but it's still an unregistered type
10:55.37CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31351 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/main.cxx: Set proper svn:mime-type instead of forged one (copied incorrectly from some web page)
10:56.10CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31352 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Application.cxx Application.h): Patch for the Application class of 3D Geometry Editor, mostly the RBGui example for OGRE.
10:57.52mafmgoogle suggestion: Did you mean: text/x-php  
10:57.53mafm:)
11:00.47brlcadthe main point is for proper web-server delivery and web-browser viewing, for with almost all text types are perfectly suited with just text/plain
11:01.09brlcadit's the binary types that need subtyping for specific handlers
11:01.27starseekerbrlcad:  ah, figures
11:02.41mafmand specially to tag the virus, similar to the "evil bit" :P
11:06.07starseekerbrlcad:  I'll switch it to bu_file_exists when I get a chance.
11:10.46CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31353 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Application.cxx Application.h main.cxx):
11:10.46CIA-22BRL-CAD: Revision of the code (WIP) to set it up to BRL-CAD standards: naming
11:10.46CIA-22BRL-CAD: conventions, doxygen documentation, ... Also a couple of new functionalities: to
11:10.46CIA-22BRL-CAD: not waste CPU when the window is not visible (it seems that my contribution to
11:10.46CIA-22BRL-CAD: OGRE a few years ago comes back to me), and making the mouse cursor visible (at
11:10.48CIA-22BRL-CAD: least it was not visible in my platform)
11:31.28mafmwhat's that jbrlcad thing? a testing implementation in Java? only some portions of the libraries?
11:32.47brlcadmafm: a testing implementation of a small portion of librt in java
11:34.27mafmoh, I see
11:38.09brlcadit includes most of the basic .g file i/o parsing, object and scene management, prep, and raytracing for a few of the primitives
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11:44.29mafmis it mature, or testing-but-mostly-dead? :D
11:55.36mafmI'm wondering if we can submit this to the repositories (default font that RBGui is using): Version 1.00 - Trebuchet MS version 1.00 was added to our collection of 'Core fonts for the Web' on 11 October 1996. Version 1.00 was also included in the Internet Explorer supplemental font pack.
11:56.05mafmit's available from here: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=34153
11:56.40mafmand Corefonts project is licensed under GPL
11:58.54mafmfrom RPM spec: License: Spec file is GPL, binary rpm is gratis but non-distributable
11:59.30mafm%description
11:59.30mafmThe TrueType core fonts for the web that was once available from
11:59.30mafmhttp://www.microsoft.com/typography/fontpack/. The src rpm is cleverly
11:59.30mafmconstructed so that the actual fonts are downloaded from Sourceforge's site
11:59.30mafmat build time. Therefore this package technically does not 'redistribute'
11:59.31mafmthe fonts, it just makes it easy to install them on a linux system.
12:01.14mafm(I go to lunch, be back in a bit)
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12:19.43brlcadmafm: neither .. it works, has been tested and works well as a design, but was mostly just an experiment
12:20.17brlcadthe OO organization is actually a very nice model for how to go about designing our new C++ API
12:20.33brlcadand will likely be joining your work in the rt^3 module soon
12:22.10brlcadmafm: no, gpl is a no-no .. go with the bitstream vera fonts
12:22.53brlcadthere are others, but that one isn't very desirable
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13:21.21mafmoki
13:21.50mafmwhere should they go, misc/gd3/ ?
14:16.49CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31354 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: add note about needed fix for rtweight
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14:20.48andrecastelohey
14:22.16mafmwb andrecastelo
14:22.22andrecastelohi mafm
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14:32.29mafmandrecastelo_: you're infringing andrecastelo's copyright
14:32.44andrecastelo_mafm: hahaha
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15:34.58andrecastelohey ``Erik.. i'm thinking about the implementation of the rayhit function right now
15:35.10andrecastelothe idea is to record each hit point in a point_list
15:35.16andrecastelothen apply the mutation algorithm and so on
15:36.49andrecastelobut rayhit will call rt_shootray() again, and how can i pass a point_list to be used without using global variables?? since rayhit()'s parameters are predetermined?
16:08.42CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03poolio * r31355 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sph/sph_brep.cpp: fixed header. removed opennurbs_circle.h include
16:11.41pooliobrlcad: isn't this naming scheme a bit redundant? :)
16:15.25mafm<brlcad> no. no.
16:22.23brlcadpoolio: what naming scheme?
16:27.31mafmsome classes that I'm using need to access other classes, which are in principle known to have only one instance
16:28.13mafmI'm wondering if you prefer me to use Singletons, or to pass pointers when creating those classes, or don't care about that and it's up to me?
16:31.33pooliobrlcad: the primitives/xxx/[xxx.c,xxx_brep.cpp]
17:39.23*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=timothy@71.170.63.120)
17:56.22pooliobrlcad: for arbn, does it make sense to duplicate a lot of the code in tess? In terms of solving for vertices, edges, faces, etc...
18:07.13*** join/#brlcad homovulgaris (n=homovulg@202.63.233.61)
18:08.14homovulgarisback finally :D
18:09.09*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=timothy@71.170.63.120)
18:09.22homovulgarisyikes No rule to make target nurb_basis.c
18:20.21CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31356 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: Added information about which files use struct rt_pt_node.
18:23.35brlcadmafm: basically it's a judgement call -- it shouldn't be whether you *need* only one but whether you think you absolute *have to* limit it to only ever one instance
18:24.04brlcadlike a network socket manager is usually a good case for a singleton
18:25.31brlcadpoolio: is usually doesn't make sense to duplicate code .. could abstract up into src/librt/primitives it if you need the same functionality in two places
18:26.10brlcadbut given the data types are different, they're not necessarily duplicated beyond the algorithm for tess() so your call
18:26.16brlcadwb homovulgaris
18:30.02pooliobrlcad: I mean it's a similar algorithm, but the structures used and what not are different. I could probably call tess(), get the structures, and work with them, but the prototype for brep() doesn't have everything that the current tess() implementation requires. So I think I will go ahead and rip it out
18:31.32brlcadpoolio: if the tolerances aren't used, you could still call tess
18:32.36brlcadif they are used, you could define your own tolerance values and/or get at the global ones through other means (like adding them to the param list or they may be reachable through deeply through one of the other args)
18:42.58pooliobrlcad: alright, I'll have to think about it a bit more
18:44.00mafmdoes anybody know if there is a quick way to produce a static build with .la files?
19:07.23mafmnevermind, it seems that I need the .a's anyway
19:08.48prasad_heh justin's site is still up
19:23.06CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31357 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Application.cxx: Setting a new theme, adding a cursor, instantiating the console
19:24.07pooliomafm: so you're using .cxx for C++ files?
19:28.38mafmit's in the HACKING guide
19:28.53mafmit's the first time that I use it, I always used .cpp before
19:37.50pooliomafm: I don't see it in HACKING...I normally use .cpp and there's only one .cxx file in trunk and many .cpp files
19:38.43mafmerm... then it's the files already existing in the module
19:38.50mafmall of them are with .cxx
19:39.14poolioOh, you raen't working out of brlcad trunk....nevermind
19:39.40mafmit's in HACKING though:
19:39.42mafm[20:39] <mafm@lnsys17> ~/soc2008-brlcad/rt^3-trunk $ grep cxx HACKING
19:39.42mafmC files use the .c extension.  C++ files use the .cxx extension.
19:40.09mafm(I don't know if HACKING is the same in both modules, though)
19:40.28pacman87timothy@HAL9000:~/brlcad/brlcad$ cat HACKING | grep cpp
19:40.28pacman87files use the .cpp extension.  PHP files use the .php extension.
19:41.30mafmerm
19:41.36mafmit's brlcad's fault
19:41.42mafmhides behind the table
19:46.14pooliopacman87: I used to do that all the time ... try grep cpp HACKING :)
19:47.13pacman87timothy@HAL9000:~/brlcad/brlcad$ grep cpp -A 2 -B 1 HACKING
19:47.13pacman87C files use the .c extension.  Header files use the .h extension.  C++
19:47.13pacman87files use the .cpp extension.  PHP files use the .php extension.
19:47.13pacman87Tcl/Tk files use the .tcl/.tk extensions.  POSIX Bourne-style shell
19:47.13pacman87scripts use the .sh extension.
19:47.33poolioI would guess that using .cpp is more desirable but I'd wait for word from brlcad. I'm guessing they originally had the same HACKING and then rt^3 was pulled out and the HACKING file neglected
19:48.13pacman87check the svn log to see which one changed, and when?
19:49.56mafmwell, with SVN is trivial to change them (and not losing history, etc), so no problem
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19:52.36pacman87hi clock_
19:54.42clock_hi
19:57.10CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31358 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: Change file checking in tire procdb to use bu_file_exists
20:05.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31359 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiConsole.cxx GuiConsole.h): Commiting work done so far in the class creating and managing the Console window. It works with some glitches (probably fault of the input system) but it's still lacking functionality.
20:06.48mafmsee you tomorrow, people!
20:10.31andrecastelo``Erik: should ap->one_hit be set? so the ray shooting stops on the first hit? is there anything else regarding ap->one_hit?
20:11.12andrecastelonevermind, it's already set
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22:26.16brlcadandrecastelo: that's a design consideration you could take into account in your algorithm
22:26.28brlcadit would actually be an interesting extension of mlt global illumination
22:26.56brlcadand a nifty performance boost as we can do full-shotline ray-tracing at only a fraction the overhead of one hit
22:27.18brlcadthat said, you should probably get it working with one hit before thinking about that :)
22:28.32andrecasteloyeah, thought the same thing.. i'm taking a look at the callback functions in view.c, to understand the code that is common to both view and viewmlt
22:28.57andrecastelothe idea is to store each hitpoint in a point list, what do you think?
22:29.42andrecasteloalso, how can i pass the point list address to the rayhit() function, without using global variables?
22:30.42andrecasteloi thought of adding a pointer to a mlt app structure, inside the application structure, what do you think?
22:30.44brlcadsounds like a plan
22:31.06brlcadthe application struct has a couple points you can use
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22:31.25brlcads/points you can use/user-provided pointers you can set/
22:31.37brlcaduserptr or something
22:31.54brlcadyou can make that an addrss to your struct, and then you'll have access to it in the callback
22:33.39andrecastelonifty!
22:33.48andrecasteloa gen_ptr, right ?
22:34.52andrecastelothanks, brlcad
22:46.36brlcadsounds about right
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23:36.01``Erikuhm, one_hit is set for all optical rendering, I think, uhmmmmm, you might look at the glass shader to see how the secondary rays for reflection/refraction, maybe? (brlcad is gonna poopoo that idea, I bet)
23:37.36``Eriksrc/optical/refract.c ?
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00:39.24*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
00:41.05andrecastelo``Erik: hm, yes, i'll take a look.. but does one_hit impact that much on reflections and refractions?? Because the ray will reflect based on the material it hits, it can reflect "inside" the material, refracting.. what do you think?
01:33.04``Erikthose require changing the ray direction/origin, so one_hit is still ok
01:33.08``Erikevening, twiggly
02:47.17andrecastelohey ``Erik, I think there are too many structures in viewmlt (mlt_app, path_list and point_list). Perhaps path_list can be eliminated? I'm thinking about connecting the mlt_app directly to a point_list
02:49.18andrecastelothe application sequence could be something like: shoot ray in a random direction, build path (each point added to mlt_app->point_list), verify if path is valid, mutate path and store information about it in the image (repeat this n times, perhaps a user supplied parameter?), then shoot another random ray.. repeat proccess
02:49.24andrecastelowhat do you think??
02:50.19andrecastelois it possible to do this?
02:50.35``Erikshoot, it's late and hot, lemme read that a few times and think about it
02:51.16andrecastelohm ok ok
02:51.52``Erikit's like 26c here in my house, and I'm a wussy seattle boy, so anything above like 21c is hot to me
02:53.02andrecasteloheheh, i'm something like that, inverted.. anything lower than 21c is too cold :b
02:53.52``Erikheh, I can run around in snow barefoot wearing just pants and a tshirt without being concerned, and I have plenty of warm clothes :)
02:54.09``Erikuhm, lets see, application has a generic user pointer you could use as your top level
02:54.49andrecasteloyup, that solved building the path list
02:56.46``Erikhrmmmm, not seeing a generic pointer in ray_data
02:58.20andrecastelohmm, i'll commit, so you can see what i have done, ok?
02:58.37``Erikcommit to which?
02:58.43``Erikviewmlt.c ?
02:59.02``Erikthe less impact on brlcad/include/*.h the better
02:59.19brlcadwoo hoo, finished the priorities/passions document rewrite
02:59.47brlcadyukonbob: you'll have to let me know how the update looks, lot of your comments taken into account (wrt layout/emphasis)
03:01.02andrecastelo``Erik: yup, commit to viewmlt.c
03:06.08brlcadfor anyone interested:  http://brlcad.org/~sean/BRL-CAD%20Priorities.pdf
03:07.12brlcadacrobat seems to render it as teh suck on Mac
03:08.43CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31360 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c:
03:08.43CIA-22BRL-CAD: Changed mlt_hit() and mlt_miss() to rayhit() and raymiss(), respectively. Added
03:08.43CIA-22BRL-CAD: a link between struct mlt_app and struct application, using a generic pointer
03:08.43CIA-22BRL-CAD: (ap->a_uptr). Added comments to rayhit() regarding what it will do and how it
03:08.43CIA-22BRL-CAD: will do it.
03:09.30brlcadit should look like: http://brlcad.org/~sean/BRL-CAD%20Priorities.png
03:10.37brlcadwill have to catch up with log later
03:11.20andrecastelo``Erik: i did add a few comments to struct rt_pt_node, in raytrace.h, about the files that use it. Bad idea?
03:15.37brlcadcomments aren't usually a problem unless they're a heavy maintenance burden (for whatever reason)
03:16.57brlcadexcept for bad comments of course that say something wrong or confusing; or comments that change a deprecation status
03:17.16brlcadwanders on home
03:17.23andrecastelohm ok, i think it is going to be useful, to look for rt_pt_node instances and butify them
03:20.50``Erikhrmmm
03:21.26``Erikare you going to have support for both ortho and perspective view, and setting of fov?
03:23.52``Erikhrmmm, 'register' is pretty pointless these days, I think
03:24.21``Erikx86 simply doesn't have sane registers and compilers are pretty solid at painting
03:25.09``Erikthinks he might actually need to read up on mlt :D
03:25.18andrecastelohm ok ok
03:25.52andrecastelo``Erik: i'm writing my idea in a step by step form, going to update the blog in a while
03:27.01andrecastelois the support for different views really complex? what do you think about setting a "domain" of valid initial directions to shoot from?? (i think this would be perspective)
03:28.10andrecastelo``Erik: http://andrecastelo.wordpress.com/
03:29.11``Eriknah, the view thing is just a different way to set up your initial set of rays, i think most of the rt's do it procedurally on the fly, each "struct resource" grabbing the next scanline
03:29.36``Erikand it's just a matter of either picking a direction and mutating the origin or picking an origin and mutating the direction
03:33.00yukonbobbrlcad: /me checks the new pdf
03:40.56yukonbobbrlcad: looks nice -- one grammar point (I'm not sure that I'm correct on this) is "emplaced" -- perhaps "forever firmly placed as open source..."
03:44.53``Erik"in order to catch a fairy, I'll have to think like a fairy" -Stewie
03:45.33``Erikemplace is archaic, but correct... O.o
03:48.41andrecastelohey guys, i'm off :)
03:48.48andrecastelocya guys tomorrow
03:49.03brlcadlikes archaic
03:49.09yukonbob:)
03:49.17brlcadcya andre|away
03:49.18yukonbobhey brlcad... what's happening?
03:49.50brlcadoh, just got home .. big inbox, ton of irc channels lit up, kinda hungry, should probably sleep
03:49.57yukonbobfeh
03:57.10brlcadandre|away: this is a really nice overview presentation if you haven't seen it:  http://www.cs.ucf.edu/~colbert/presentations/mlt.pdf
03:59.52brlcad``Erik: maybe of interest to you too, I ran into that a couple months ago while reading up on it again
04:00.01brlcadreally like the 2D example
04:00.28brlcadkinda tempted to implement it though there wouldn't be much point :)
04:01.46``Erikheh, I was hoping it was stephen colbert :D
04:02.48yukonbobemmy please.
04:03.51``Erikheheeh lena :)
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05:04.59brlcadcool, mafm's changes look good
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09:56.18mafmhi there, folks
10:17.35brlcadhowdy!
10:17.58brlcad"cool, mafm's changes look good" -- from a while ago
10:23.08mafmwho dared!?
10:26.16mafmI'm trying to find out with big bot-rher :)
10:26.28mafmbtw, the bot doesn't log /me's
10:27.47mafm(no clues from the bot logs, demmit)
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13:09.43``Eriktakes up the habit of speaking in all ctcp actions to avoid surveillance O.o :D
13:11.15mafm:D
13:11.23archivistlogs actions
13:12.28``Erikgoes all gitmo and waterlogs archivist ;D
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13:24.16``Erikwhen life gives you limes, make a gin and tonic
13:29.49mafmwhen life gives you microsoft, go pencil and paper?
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14:20.39mafmhmm
14:21.56mafmthe MGED command window should stay in the GUI too, with more or less the same capabilities, right?
14:24.18mafmor if not, can anybody point to examples or requirements of what should be implemented?
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15:39.10CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31361 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiConsole.cxx GuiConsole.h): Perfecting the implementation of the console, mainly history handling
15:39.56mafm"Logging in to SourceForge.net is currently disabled."
15:40.14mafmholy cows!
16:28.02andre|awaymafm: not watching the soccer match ? :b
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17:16.13``Erikhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v674/moonlight80/DodgeTrucks.jpg
17:51.36CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31362 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/GuiConsole.cxx: Small modifications removing redundancy
18:09.29CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31363 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/GuiConsole.cxx: Header cleanup, to not include full OGRE and OIS headers and other unneeded ones
18:14.16brlcadmafm: yes per examples/requirements .. in a bit, gotta munch some first :)
18:15.10mafmoki
18:15.43mafmI'll have to run in a moment though, it's my last opportunity to watch Blade Runner, director's cut in the cinema :)
18:25.35mafmhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Mafm#Log -- update, with screenie included
18:25.44mafmnot very impressive really :P
18:27.30mafmI go now, take care
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20:13.04pacman87well, i'm finally making progress on tess()
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21:02.53``Erikhttp://www.theonion.com/content/video/warcraft_sequel_lets_gamers_play
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22:59.19``Erikhome at last
23:43.08``Erikcarter, hand me my thinking grenades
23:49.08brlcadhehe
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080612

00:22.59``Erikfucking goddamnit
00:23.13``ErikI can deal with the heat, but I need to get the a/c fixed, some redneck is blasting lynyrd skynyrd
00:23.30``Erikit's ok in small doses, but not a whole album when I'm not in the mood for it
00:23.56``Erikat least the song going now is a good one... simple man... *sigh*
00:26.04pacman87``Erik: http://xkcd.com/368/
00:27.05``Erikheh
00:28.05``Erik<-- has thought about using a collander as a near parabolic director, a spark plug at roughly the focal point, and a nice assload of high capacity fast capacitors...
00:28.20``Erikuhm, not a collander, a metal uh, like, grease sieve thing
00:28.41``Erikthe metal screen thing :) EM cannon style, yo
00:29.32``Erik(unfortunately, cars seem to be their own faraday cages to protect the target electronics)
00:34.50``Erikheh
00:34.52``Erikhttp://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1855/01721azf4.jpg
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03:52.50andrecastelohey guys
04:23.28CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31364 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c:
04:23.28CIA-22BRL-CAD: Removed struct path_list, mlt_app now has a direct access to a struct
04:23.28CIA-22BRL-CAD: point_list. Added a point list of light sources. Added initialization of mlt_app
04:23.28CIA-22BRL-CAD: lists (lightsources and path). Added hit point calculation and hit point storage
04:23.28CIA-22BRL-CAD: in mlt_app->path, in the rayhit() function.
04:30.15CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31365 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c: Fixed structure handling bugs (ap->a_ray->r_pt ---> ap->a_ray.r_pt, for example).
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10:06.39mafmhowdy folks
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11:51.09brlcadhowdy
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12:21.14andrecastelogood morning guys
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12:36.10mafmandrecastelo: I wasn't watching the football match, no
12:37.37mafmthe guys at the lab set up the conference room with the projector to watch them together, though
12:42.06mafmbrlcad: so what about the console design?
13:10.19CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31366 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c: irrelevant formating changes
13:19.15mafmhmm
13:19.34mafmdo you guys think that listeners should go in separate classes
13:19.46mafmor maybe add that capability to a bigger class too?
13:28.31CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31367 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiConsole.cxx GuiConsole.h): Implemented properly the GuiConsole window auto-resizing when OGRE RenderWindow (i.e. the window that appears in your desktop) is resized, and cleaned up some of the other listeners/callbacks.
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13:39.05CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31368 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/GuiConsole.cxx: Commenting out debugging cout's.
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14:55.24CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31369 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Application.cxx GuiConsole.cxx): Setting the console text zone to wrap lines instead of cutting them, and setting OIS to not disable keyboard auto-repeat for all the applications in the same DISPLAY -- that's *very* annoying.
15:44.12pooliobrlcad: how might I go about calling rt_xxx_tess from a C++ file? I don't see any header with that defined...just the rt table. Should I go through there?
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16:52.12homovulgarishi all :)
16:52.32homovulgarisbrlcad: i was writing definitions for constraintnetwork which is basically a graph
16:52.40homovulgariscan we use the boost library ?
16:53.00homovulgarisi think their headers are pretty rigorous and generic
16:53.24homovulgaris2 hours to first commit hopefully :)
16:54.21homovulgariscan't we split up the existing doxygen librt page. Am i the only one facing difficulty in loading that page
17:01.55mafmnever used that page
17:02.11homovulgaris:) it is a pretty "huge" page
17:02.48homovulgarismafm: gui images look nice
17:05.28mafmthat's default theme's fault :)
17:15.12homovulgaris:D indeed
17:15.32homovulgarisi have never used ogre :)
17:16.54mafmactually it's not OGRE, it's a bit more complex than that
17:17.16mafmOGRE folks wanted to specialyze in the 3D part only, and being so portable as to be usable in consoles
17:17.28mafmthen they "externalized" support for other things like input and GUI
17:17.37homovulgarisoh :)
17:17.46mafmso actually you have to use several different libraries to get to this point
17:18.24mafmin this case it's the new RBGui, instead of the most widely known CEGUI... but it feels much better when using it, I think
17:19.02mafmI guess that I should try to focus soon in getting the rest of the infrastructure usable so everybody can test :)
17:19.26homovulgarisi tried rt^3 trunk
17:20.02homovulgarisbut didnt seem to do anything :)
17:20.17homovulgarisg3d presently doesnt install ?
17:20.32mafmnope
17:20.45mafmotherwise I think that rt^3 is mostly empty
17:20.53homovulgarisany idea how magic.h entries are created :)
17:21.28mafmthe problem is that, for compiling g3d, you need all these different libraries working, and some of them need patches
17:21.43homovulgarisyeah it produces a few binaries rt^3 rt^3d etc. which just prints timer started stopped etc.
17:22.04mafmno idea, let me check...
17:24.36mafmmagic.c is in SVN, so I guess that it's not autogenerated -- so I guess that the entries are added by hand, if that's what you mean
17:26.01homovulgarisyeah magic.c just has an identify_magic which returns the name corresponding to magic value
17:26.49homovulgarisbut there must be some system of generating the hexadecimal magic number right :) right now i just wrote a number i liked .. but not at all a good way i suppose :)
17:28.47mafmoh I see
17:29.05mafmwell, you might want to wait for the gurus to come by ;)
17:29.16homovulgaris:)
17:29.28homovulgarisu are from portugal ?
17:29.45mafmusually nobody is around while I'm coding, except for a couple of hours or so
17:29.48mafmyep
17:30.31mafmyou must be from America or Canada I guess :P
17:33.02homovulgarisIndia :P
17:33.49mafmhmm
17:33.57mafmso what time of the day is it, at the moment?
17:34.27homovulgaris11:11 pm
17:34.42homovulgariswhat time at portugal 5:30 6 ?
17:35.11mafmoh, at night.. I though that you were joining because you just got up in the morning or something :D
17:35.19mafmhere it's 18h35
17:35.28homovulgarisi just got up though :)
17:36.06mafm:D
17:53.45homovulgarisdid u see pacman's hyperboloid ? awesome right :) ?
17:56.05mafmonly in pictures that he posted here
17:56.12mafmbut it's nice yep
18:00.37mafmwhat's yout development platform?
18:05.25homovulgarisu mean language ? C for integration with librt and other existing libraries.. constraint solving etc. in C++
18:05.54homovulgarissaw this one ? http://brlcad.org/gallery/s/renderings/primitives/hyp.png.html
18:06.15mafmI mean also the OS
18:06.40homovulgarisdebian unstable :) amd64 2.6.24-1
18:06.47mafmheh, nice
18:06.56mafmoh, another Debianite?
18:07.10homovulgaris:) et tu ?
18:07.13mafmint random { return 4; } :P
18:07.17mafmme too
18:07.26mafmthey make a lot of fun of me around here :PPP
18:16.10mafm(not in BRL-CAD, I mean in Portugal some of my friends -- it's not a very popular distro here)
18:18.54homovulgaris:) BRL-CAD is a very "secular" organization i am sure :)
18:20.21louipcmafm: whats popular?
18:20.46homovulgarisI cant imagine debian not being popular anywhere :)
18:20.50pacman87homovulgaris: all my hyp images are here: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/
18:21.15mafmlouipc: mostly fedora
18:21.27homovulgarispacman87: makes me want to write a primitive myself :)
18:21.36louipcah
18:21.37mafmand now Ubuntu of course
18:21.56louipcyeah I would have guessed ubuntu
18:22.07pacman87homovulgaris: most of it was pretty easy, but i'm still fighting to get tess() to do what i want
18:22.16homovulgarishow is the sweep thing going to be implemented ?
18:22.31homovulgarisi mean how does hyp help revolve and sweep ?
18:22.55pacman87i started it as my gsoc app patch requirement
18:23.14pacman87and it helps me figure out what all a primitive needs
18:23.20homovulgarismethod of creating new geometry primitives is pretty well strucutred as i understood from the comments in librt.. but yeah i think the raytracing part must be pretty involved
18:24.07pacman87there's a fairly standard method for finding intersections of conic-type shapes
18:25.02brlcadpoolio: why would you be calling rt_xxx_tess()?  .. it doesn't do anything
18:25.59pacman87brlcad: i think he wanted to call each primitive's tess(), not rt_xxx_tess() specifically
18:26.01brlcadif instead of xxx you mean some given primitive, then you can either call the function directly (just declare the function) or go through rt_functab
18:27.06brlcadhomovulgaris: you're welcome to break up librt into doxygen groups -- I'm not sure who all uses it, that's a work in progress
18:27.08homovulgarissweep would basically involve a profile right ? and for the profile u would be using sketch ?
18:27.23homovulgarisok.. and magic number generation ?
18:27.36pacman87homovulgaris: that's the current plan
18:27.43``Erikhey, burley... should g2asc/asc2g per-primitive functionality be moved out of conv/ and into src/librt/whatver/g_*.c ?
18:28.34pooliobrlcad: I meant rt_arbn_tess, declaring it did the trick :)
18:28.36``Erik(if I have to use linux, debian is the one I like to go with)
18:29.03starseekerwould have thought Gentoo for ``Erik
18:29.11brlcadas for boost, it really depends on which parts of boost -- the portions that are going to be part of c++0x are probably fair game, the others on case-by-case
18:29.29``Erikuhm, I gave up on linux before gentoo came along, I believe
18:29.50homovulgaris:o gave up on linux :)
18:30.22``Erik(also; gentoo is for ricers)
18:30.38starseekerOddly enough, I don't performance tune my system much
18:30.46pacman87uses slackware
18:31.05brlcadhomovulgaris: the magic numbers are defined by the maker of the structure that needed them -- they're usually the ascii encoding of some related text string (see magic.h)
18:31.15mafmslackware r:-)
18:31.35``Erikin the old days, I tuned some, I don't anymore...
18:31.41``Erikheh
18:31.51``ErikI still have floppies with slackware disk set files on them
18:32.01homovulgarisbasically i wanted to define PC_CONSTRAINT_MAGIC_INTERNAL so i just selected a hex number and added it to magic.h and magic.c .. should it be ok /
18:32.05pacman87``Erik: 5.25" or 3.5"?
18:32.13``Erik3.5's
18:32.18pacman87awww :(
18:32.21``ErikI moved from 5.25's to 3.5's with my commodore
18:32.28brlcadmafm: hadn't had a chance to say it, that is great progress on the gui -- want to walk through a build (maybe tomorrow) to get things up and running myself
18:32.36``ErikI used to have 4 track data tapes O.o
18:32.53pacman87i've got carmen sandiego on a 5.25"
18:33.00``Erikheh, I used to
18:33.27``ErikI had BUCK ROGERS on cassette tape :D and used to buy the 120 minute ones because you could cram more bytes on 'em and they usually worked :D
18:33.36brlcadbets he still has carmen discs somewhere
18:34.10brlcadpacman87: cool!  https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/hyp_rt16.png  .. so is that recent that you got it aligned?
18:34.37pacman87brlcad: yeah, it should work now
18:34.41brlcadawesome
18:35.28pacman87i was off before because the rec uses y and -x as maj/min axis, and i use x and y
18:35.29mafmbrlcad: nice. maybe I should sort out the building process so everybody could do it... it's a bit complicate though, and I already contacted RBGui guys to fix some of the issues instead of rolling private patches
18:36.06``Erikbrlcad: two cylinders and a hyp in the middle?
18:36.28mafmother than that, I have still the problem of not knowing exactly what to build in the console, etc; and what about the logging -- if I have to use the one in libbu or what
18:36.33``Erikor pacman, rather? heh :D
18:36.34brlcad``Erik: yup, anywhere there is per-primitive tables .. that belongs in the new dirs
18:36.57brlcad(asc2g, g2asc, in, mirror, soledit, *thinks* .. )
18:37.07pacman87``Erik: yes, the hyp creation specifies the base dimensions, and neck ratio, so it's easier to match up to cyls
18:37.29brlcadmafm: yeah, especially for bob :)
18:37.43``Erikg2asc.c has per primitive operations in it... for everything... asc2g.c, too :(
18:41.05mafmif you want something quickly though, I could pack the libraries (already with patches), the media (still not sure about the license) and the simple Makefile+ogre.cfgs
18:43.13``Erikhehehe --fenable-racing-stripes
18:43.26``Erik--fuck-upstream
18:43.32``ErikI love reading about gentoo, it's funny stuff :D
18:46.29``Erikahhh, it's moved
18:46.31``Erikhttp://www.funroll-loops.info/
18:47.57CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31370 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiConsole.cxx GuiConsole.h): Adding pointer to listener to be able to delete it, and thus not leak memory (even if it should be only disabled when closing the application...)
18:47.59mafmmmm
18:48.26mafmsf.net won't accept my new ssh key anymore, and asks me for password all the time -- any idea of the reason?
18:48.35mafmmaybe another special brl-cad hook?
18:59.51CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31371 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Application.cxx Application.h): Some cleanups and small code reorganizations, and adding Doxygen documentation in some parts.
19:00.33CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31372 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libtie/tie_kdtree.c: If bu_realloc() could possibly have a 0 size, test and call bu_free() instead. PR 1989853.
19:09.44mafmbrlcad: so about my question before about logs and the console functionalities?
19:12.02brlcadmafm: yeah, that's actually our regular modus operandi to include deps (with our srcs)
19:12.34brlcadI'd say commit their sources, them make commit(s) for any/all patches needed
19:12.46brlcadthat way we can reapply the patches if/when we need to update the sources
19:13.03CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31373 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Application.cxx Application.h): Restoring missing character when closing comment, it was causing havok when compiling :)
19:13.36mafmdo you mean update their sources to our repository?
19:13.37brlcadmafm: and no regarding ssh keys -- that's entirely outside of the commit/hook infrastructure
19:13.58brlcadyou should be able to log into an interactive node and manually verify your ~/.ssh files
19:14.07mafmall RBGui (which needs Mocha as util library), OGRE and OIS?
19:14.26*** join/#brlcad WARLOCK (n=Paychris@wsip-24-120-246-34.lv.lv.cox.net)
19:14.27brlcadif you *just* uploaded new keys, I'd give it a day -- sometimes takes a while to sync them to all the svn hosts
19:14.49brlcadmafm: yep, the whole shebang -- how big is their stuff?
19:14.51mafmI can successfully submit to other repositories (gna), but not this
19:14.51WARLOCKanyone know a good place to discuss autocad & get help
19:15.12mafmmaybe it's because of pulling SVN from https instead of svn+ssh?
19:15.13brlcadWARLOCK: sure, try an autocad support forum :)
19:15.27brlcad(which this is not)
19:15.28WARLOCKwell, i was curious if there was an irc chat room
19:15.31WARLOCKfor cad users
19:15.36WARLOCKit would be nice
19:15.36brlcadnot that I'm aware of
19:15.50WARLOCKwe should have one!
19:15.53brlcadthere is #cad with like one dude
19:16.15brlcad"we" ?  that wouldn't benefit us given we're developing a different cad system
19:17.03``ErikO.o
19:17.21WARLOCKreally
19:17.27WARLOCKlet me navigate
19:17.28WARLOCKto shi site
19:17.34WARLOCKto this site*
19:17.35``Erikjoins #gentoo to talk about the latest vista service patch and the issues he's having
19:17.40``Erik:D
19:18.20*** part/#brlcad WARLOCK (n=Paychris@wsip-24-120-246-34.lv.lv.cox.net)
19:18.43homovulgarisbrlcad: is our pkgconfig system working properly ?
19:18.55mafmbrlcad: took a while to run: http://rafb.net/p/6UGAlD81.html
19:19.10homovulgarisi mean in the .pc files shouldnt the datarootdir declaration be one line above ?
19:20.53mafmI'd say that 300k sloc from OGRE is a bit... too much
19:21.52mafmas for patches and so on, for me OGRE and OIS stand pretty much by themselves and are quite easy to install (regular build systems, etc)
19:22.15mafmbut RBGui and Mocha don't even compile out of the box, even if the patches required are pretty small
19:27.47mafmwell, have to run now
19:28.28mafmhopefully I'll come back tomorrow -- tonight is the day of patron of the city, big party \o/
19:28.36mafmtake care folks :)
20:01.51homovulgarishey erik, shouldnt line 918 of tie_kdtree.c be ((tie_geom_t *)(tie->kdtree->data))->tri_list rather than ((tie->kdtree->data))->tri_list
20:02.00homovulgarisi was getting a compile error
20:04.12``Erikhrm, yeah, probably
20:05.25``Erikthanks for catching that
20:05.35CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31374 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libtie/tie_kdtree.c: pheer my pointy hat (fix a void* deref).
20:06.47homovulgaris:) i have honestly no idea what libtie does :)
20:07.06``Erikuhm, really really fast triangle raytracing, used by adrt
20:07.08homovulgaris:should check out more parts of the source.. 1.5 mil lines is too much :)
20:07.19``Eriksome day, I'll rip out bot stuff in librt and shove tie in there
20:07.24``Erik'triangle intersection engine'
20:07.37pacman87not 'twin ion engine'?
20:07.44homovulgarisoh ok :) bag of triangles never made much sense to me either :P
20:08.20``Erika long time ago, in a galaxy far away, the notion of modeling or rendering something just using triangles seemed stupid :)
20:08.44``ErikI mean, how are you going to get a reasonable model to fit in the massive 4kb of memory your big high powered supercomputer has?
20:09.02``Erik:D
20:09.05homovulgaris:D
20:10.12``Erikwonders if his patch actually works
20:15.52*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-78-196.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:17.04``Erikbrilliant :D http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35890
20:42.12homovulgaris:D
20:42.44homovulgarisno wonder u like #gentoo
20:43.13louipclol
20:48.27homovulgaris:) btw why do we still attribute copyright to US army ?
20:50.26andrecastelogood evening guys
20:51.36``Erik<-- personally thinks that donated work should remain under content creators content, the license protects the US gov't, as well as all other consumers O.o but *shrug* not my call
20:51.46``Erikhowdy, andré
20:52.24andrecastelohowdy ``Erik
20:52.43andrecastelohow's the weather ? :D
20:52.55``Erikday-star too bright *grunt*
20:59.09homovulgaris:( no mged -- ogl_open: couldn't create glXContext.
20:59.29CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31375 10/brlcad/trunk/ (60 files in 43 dirs):
20:59.29CIA-22BRL-CAD: Added basic structure of new Parametrics and constraints library in src/libbpc,
20:59.30CIA-22BRL-CAD: pc_constraint.c file in librt for constraint object import export functionality,
20:59.30CIA-22BRL-CAD: modification of primitives and table.c to provide rt_primitive_params
20:59.30CIA-22BRL-CAD: functionality via functab structure, minor change to doxygen_structure
21:18.02``Eriksobs at the every increasing instance count of "#ifdef __linux__ /* EXTRA special */" in this file
21:18.13``Eriks,y,,
21:28.51pacman87``Erik: which file?
21:33.20``Erikdifferent project
21:33.43pacman87briefly contemplates rewriting hyp's tess() to take advantage of the fact that a hyberboloid is a doubly-ruled surface
21:34.07``Erikcompiler chunk that outputs at&t style x86 assembly, there's the linux way and the rest of the known universe way :)
21:35.48``Erikoh poo, mal isn't here to raz on :D
21:48.14pacman87success!
21:49.42pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/hyp_rt_tess.png
21:50.26pacman87still not all that efficient, but at least it finally works
21:57.47*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@77.237.111.4)
22:06.49homovulgaris:)
22:20.43andrecasteloso ``Erik, what do you think about the implementation idea at http://andrecastelo.wordpress.com/ ?
22:58.25CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31376 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (hyp/hyp.c rhc/rhc.c): tess() should finally work, but still needs effeciency optimizations
23:01.10``Erikhrmmm, you are intending on doing a full sample set for each pixel, not building a light map, correct?
23:05.48andrecasteloyup, but i'm open to suggestions
23:07.39``Erikno, that works for me
23:08.04``Erikit seems to me that you should shoot a primary ray and begin your pass at the first hitpoint?
23:08.16andrecasteloyes
23:08.24``Erikopposed to shooting a random direction from the viewpoint as your list indicates?
23:08.50andrecastelothat's what i meant
23:09.00``Erikokie
23:09.16``Erikstoring the path in mlt_app might be trickier than you might think
23:09.25andrecastelowhy ?
23:09.33``Erikwe're going to have N workers going
23:09.48``Erikyou probably have 1 by default, I have 8 by default and will be testing at 128+
23:10.07andrecasteloi see, if i restrict it to one point list, it will slow down considerably
23:10.20``Erikin fact, we're getting a new sun t2 machine with 128 ALU's, I'm excited to see this piece of hw :)
23:10.28``Erikand I have machines with, uh, 4096 cpu's at my disposal
23:10.41andrecasteloO.O
23:10.51andrecasteloholy..
23:10.53``Erikwell, if you have one point list, the usual occurance is for data to be over-written or confused
23:11.19pacman87is jealous
23:12.05``ErikI probably won't use the big one, it requires queuing a batch job and people doing "important" things need time on it
23:12.24``Erikbut I will pretty much be operating solely in a fairly threaded and parallel mode
23:12.27CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31377 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c: Added memory freeing block for mlt_app->path. (Subject to change to mlt_app->path_list)
23:12.37andrecasteloi see
23:13.05andrecasteloalso, should i give more priority to view_pixel() over rayhit() ?
23:13.09``Erikmost of the rt's operating by having each worker responsible for an entire scanline
23:13.21``Erikpriority? how do you mean?
23:13.48``Erikthey do different things, last I looked O.o
23:14.29andrecasteloi know, i meant if i should work first on view_pixel()
23:14.40``Erikum
23:14.56``Erikwell, if you do view_pixel first, you can stub like a flat shader to see if you're casting right
23:15.08andrecasteloyup, that's what i thought
23:15.10``ErikI think that would give you a more visual result sooner
23:15.33``Erikwhich is always good, not only can you course correct sooner, but it's awesome seeing it and gets ya all enthusiastic :D
23:15.55andrecasteloyep, i've been thinking that should i do view_pixel() later, i could need to rewrite some stuff
23:16.16andrecasteloyup, i'm kind of jealous of pacman87 and his nifty images
23:16.23``Erik*nod*
23:16.35pacman87:D
23:16.50andrecastelo:D
23:17.15``ErikI sure got a huge thrill out of my metaball image
23:17.19``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/gallery/s/renderings/primitives/niceballs.png.html
23:17.33``Erikask brlcad, I was running around the office yelling "check out my balls! look at my balls!"
23:18.21andrecastelorofl!
23:19.23andrecastelortmlt's view_pixel() would be something like rt's view_pixel(), right?
23:19.34``ErikI think so
23:19.54``Erikgenerate the primary cast, "go do it", pack the result
23:21.33andrecasteloprimary cast is the primary rays?
23:21.38``Erikyes
23:22.04``Erikray caster vs ray tracer... :)
23:23.47andrecasteloah ok ok :D
23:23.47``Erikhrmmmmmm, gpl or bsd *think*
23:24.40``Erikleans towards the 'new' bsd license (two clause, not 3)
23:24.53``Erikside project, unrelated to BRL-CAD or graphics :D
23:25.04andrecastelowas just going to ask that :D
23:25.20andrecastelowhat's so bad about gpl? (or what's so good about bsd)
23:27.16``Erikbsd allows use in closed source projects (with attribution)
23:28.08``ErikI've released some stuff under the bsd license that is use in, uh, shoutcast and stuff
23:28.08``Erikso my name gets in their readme or whatever :)
23:28.35andrecastelois impressed how open source ``Erik is
23:28.43andrecastelohehehe
23:29.06``Erik*shrug8
23:29.18``Erikin the late 80's, I was releasing code on BBS's under pretty much public domain
23:29.59andrecastelomust be awesome to have someone use your code, isn't it ?
23:30.07``Erikyeah
23:30.12CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31378 10/brlcad/trunk/ (27 files in 15 dirs): changes in comments to conform to doxygen, update of misc/Doxyfile
23:30.16``Erikhttp://www.brianlee.org/digital-picture-frame/   <-- especially neat stuff like that
23:30.59andrecasteloopens site
23:34.03``Erikneat, my name is on http://www.centova.com/pages/icescc too
23:35.23andrecasteloawesome, ``Erik.. that digital picture frame looks really nice
23:36.01``ErikI thought so, I got an email from brian with a couple questions and we got to talking, he did some really awesome stuff, I'm glad he chose my software :D
23:36.52andrecasteloneat, neat, i can imagine the feeling :D
23:37.41andrecasteloices-cc is the shoutcast thing you talked about? or did you work on more related stuff ?
23:38.02``Erikuhm, it's a fork of the thing my stuff was used for, I think
23:38.18``ErikI didn't work on it, I just had some open source software out there under a bsd license, and people used it
23:38.36``Eriksometimes I get lucky and they tell me what they're using my stuff for :)
23:40.14``Erikxiph icecast is the one I was thinking
23:41.30andrecastelowants to write good code too :b
23:41.47``Erikoh, whoa, wait up there, I never claimed I wrote GOOD code ;)
23:43.14andrecastelohehehe, true, but i assume that if people want to use it, it must be somewhat good
23:43.38pacman87andrecastelo: that just means it's useful ;)
23:44.05andrecastelostill, i think that both concepts overlap :)
23:44.41``Erikhum, some neat renderings from gsi O.o
23:52.35CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31379 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c: Fixed some issues in view_end(): structure freed changed from mlt_app to point_list; moved declarations to the beginning of the block.
23:55.45andrecastelohey ``Erik : can you give me some tips on understanding view_pixel() ?? what is the core of the function?? (i'm thinking it must be one of the switch cases)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080613

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080613

00:14.06``Erikin... rt?
00:16.28``Erik*look*
00:17.31``Erik"BUFMODE_SCANLINE" is the one you'd be used to seeing, I believe
00:24.07``Erikandre, this is reduced to the "normal" code path for you: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d79ae3ecc
00:24.19``Erikbrlcad: zomfg, teh spamz0rz!
00:27.57``Erikwants to completely remove the 'restart' capability, so "perfect black" is no longer a magic semantic notion :/
00:28.46``ErikI'll wait until MLT is fully implemented, if it takes a week to render a nice scene, restart might be worth keeping
00:30.11andrecastelo``Erik: thanks erik, i'll take a look. I've also changed the mlt_app back, with path_lists and point_lists
00:30.31andrecasteloI was doing the required changes to rayhit() and view_init()
00:33.27``Erik<-- has never written an rt, has only really dorked around with fixing a race condition in viewedge.c in that dir... :) so I may be wrong or otherwise confused :)
00:35.46andrecastelothanks though, changing view_end to free multiple path lists and point lists
00:35.54homovulgariswho was the adrt architect :) ?
00:37.18CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31380 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c: Changed mlt_app to use path_lists that use point_lists. Updated rayhit(), view_init() and view_end().
00:40.06andrecasteloreads pastebin
00:41.58``Erikadrt was done by twingy
00:42.53``ErikI've been doing a lot of crud in that directory, but I still treat parts as black boxes, so right now, no one really knows it... he knows part, i know part... :)
00:44.03homovulgaris:)
00:44.37``Erikwhyfor?
00:45.58homovulgarisTryker ICV looks really cool :)
00:46.03homovulgaris*Stryker
00:46.19``Erikthat is the RISE path tracer
00:46.42homovulgariswhat exactly was the grass in that model .. geometrically ?
00:46.47``Eriktheoretically, the MLT should output an extremely similar picture in less time, given the resource
00:46.48``Eriktriangles
00:47.31``Eriktwingy used a blender plugin to generate a gazillion triangles of grass, then exported it to the adrt format and glued the stryker on it
00:47.35``Erikiirc
00:47.42``Erikeach blade is several triangles
00:48.05homovulgaris:O 11542,992 triangles
00:48.13homovulgarisand 5 days of rendering :)
00:48.30homovulgarisi think it's time for MLT indeed :)
00:48.33``Erikyes, a few years ago
00:48.49``Erikacross a large number of machines, ADRT is a distributed system
00:49.01homovulgarisyeah i was just checking out the directory
00:49.02``Erikso there was something like two dozen computers, many of them dual core
00:49.19andrecastelostill, mlt IS a brute force solution.. so how much less time it is expected to output such images?
00:49.25``Erikbut it's hypersampled and has depth shtuff
00:49.39``Erikuhm, you know the semi-genetic algorithm to favor 'important' rays?
00:49.51``ErikRISE is full on random in path selection
00:50.04homovulgaris:D "full on random"
00:50.08``Erikevery time. Never tries to do any kind of importance selection, just drand48() style
00:50.40homovulgarishow does tie improve it ?
00:50.53``Eriktie is a very fast raytracer that only does triangles
00:51.07``Eriknot quite as fast as rayfarce or manta, but far faster than librt
00:51.26``Erikwere it done with librt bots, that'd be 5 months, not 5 days :D
00:51.42``Eriknote; 8 TRILLION rays
00:52.05homovulgaris:) hmmm
00:53.30``Erikfeel free to figure out how many rays per second that is
00:53.45``Erikin 2004
00:56.13``Erikcomes up with 2.3 million rays per second on 2004 hardware
00:56.51``Erikstarts wondering if that 8 trillion is short O.o like a rollover bug or something
00:57.14homovulgaris:) what is the status now ? i mean how many rays per sceond  on 2007
00:57.19homovulgaris*in
00:57.21``Erikdunno
00:57.23*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
00:57.25``Erikrise doesn't work anymore
00:57.29``Erikand isst doesn't do it that way
00:57.33``Erikspeak of the devil
00:58.30``Eriktwingy: dawn is drooling over the icv image and the general awesomeness of adrt/rise
00:58.38homovulgaris:P
00:59.01homovulgarismaybe we can have another drool when mlt is finished
00:59.44``Erikwould like to ram tie (or rayforce) into librt to replace bots some day
01:00.13``Erikand mebbe replace remrt with the adrt stuff O.o
01:01.16homovulgarisonly raytracing i did in architecture school was using maxwell and kerkythea .. ok maybe a bit of rhino
01:03.15Twingywho is dawn?
01:03.33homovulgarisi am dawn :)
01:03.39``Erikgsoc student
01:03.39Twingyhi dawn
01:04.15homovulgarisdawn is mostly a female name in us right :P I am a guy
01:04.43homovulgarishi Twingy , adrt is awesome :)
01:05.00homovulgaris6.41 am here.. better go eat something
01:05.21TwingyI'm flattered, but you should work with ray force as it's a more intelligent way of handling ray tracing
01:05.55``Erikrayforce is not open source.
01:06.17Twingywhat do I know...
01:06.37homovulgarishmm.. :) oh if somebody is commiting change me and mafm out of the Special Thanks section in AUTHORS to Contributors or something :)
01:06.59homovulgarisI dislike small commits :)
01:07.25``Erikeveryone else dislikes big commits :D
01:08.16andrecasteloi prefer small commits :B
01:08.21andrecasteloeasier to fix if anything goes wrong
01:08.37``Erik*nod* and easier to perform code archeology on
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01:26.08brlcadwoof, what a backlog :)
01:26.14brlcad*read*read*read*
01:26.29``Erikheh
01:27.19brlcadhomovulgaris: no idea re: pkgconfig working -- I set up the files originally and they should be dynamic to the actual build settings needed/used, but I had no quick means or need to test whether it actually worked
01:27.25TwingyI worked with a gsoc student on nurbana once
01:27.32``Erikcool
01:27.33brlcadI figured I'd leave that to the first person to complain/need it :)
01:28.17brlcadhomovulgaris: if you think they need a fix, go ahead and fix them
01:28.17``Erikhas a couple 'third party' apps that use librt (rtcmp and that "fast" vl thing), can test the .pc if needed
01:34.44brlcadnotes that tcl/tk is more than 500+k sloc compared to ogre's mere 300k
01:35.38``Eriknotes that tcl/tk is a pile *cough* O:-)
01:35.59brlcadhomovulgaris: if you run sh/enumerate.sh .. it's a little less than 1.5mil lines :)  .. about 1mil of actual brl-cad source
01:36.16``ErikI like wheelers "sloccount" suite
01:36.27``Erikif you want to extract meaningless metrics
01:37.50``Erikthedailywtf.com has a few stories about how coders destroy idiotic mgmt plans involving loc or commit metrics :)
01:38.37``Erikhttp://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Defect-Black-Market.aspx
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01:46.02*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
01:46.29brlcadpacman87: hah, that's awesome (tess) ..
01:46.57brlcadhomovulgaris and andrecastelo: really nice progress updates :)
01:47.13brlcadjeez, leave for dinner and come back to a ton of cool stuff :)
01:47.40``Erikthe answer, obviously, is to quit eating.
01:47.51``ErikI mean, you gave up sleep, giving up eating should be easy O.o
01:49.02``Erikmunches his nuked dinner O.o
01:49.55``Erik"if you don't like it, you can just pass the blunt to the n***er on your left" --Jimmy, southpark
01:50.03``Erikwhat a show :D
01:51.14homovulgarishey Erik could you check if pkgconfig is working
01:51.25brlcadandrecastelo: he really was .. kinda disturbing to have a grown guy asking folks to look at his balls :)
01:51.39homovulgarismine gives Variable 'datarootdir' not defined in '/usr/brlcad/lib/pkgconfig/rt.pc'
01:51.57homovulgariswhere as it is defined.. just a line below where it is used i guess :)
01:52.05``Erikit was completely innocent! I can't help if you PERVERTS twisted it into something disturbing!
01:52.30homovulgarisi am sure it would have been equally disturbing even if it was a non-grown guy :D
01:53.34``Erikand, uh, WHO suggested changing "goo" to "sweat" in the primitive?
01:53.49``Erikbtw; I had to :%s/sweat/goo/g really fast when I was showing pjt the code
01:53.54homovulgarisbrlcad: i ran sloccount it says we have 0.26 mil of shell script :O
01:54.03homovulgarisand 1 mil of ansic ofcourse
01:54.14``Erikmost of that .26 is probably generated or copied autoconf stuff
01:54.57homovulgarisyeah.. :) 3323 of asm ;) in src/other and libfb :)
01:56.31homovulgarishmm libz
01:57.38``Erikeyeballs src/libfb/sgiselect.s
01:57.45brlcadyay, caught up
01:57.53homovulgarislibz has ada too ?
01:58.19brlcadyeah, sloccount is nifty, last ran it like seven years ago though
01:58.20``Eriko.O
01:59.15brlcad``Erik: if I had not gone to dinner, I wouldn't have found out some cool news
01:59.24brlcadmamie's is getting a liquor's license :)
01:59.33``Eriknice
01:59.40``Erikare they going to carry anything worth ordering? :D
01:59.43brlcadand because of that's they are already byob now
01:59.59brlcadsome folks were in tonight with a bottle of wine
02:00.14``Erikunfortunately, I can't throw a beer in the fridge at work in anticipation
02:00.27brlcadand Ed stuff ourselves like mad
02:00.30``Erikshows up to mamies with a six pack and a bottle of vodka O.o :>
02:00.46``Eriked was in the area? shoot, I may've done the 30 minute drive for that
02:00.56brlcadwe left late
02:01.14``Erikahhh
02:01.25brlcad``Erik: yeah, but remember the place next door :)
02:01.34``Erikhrm? radio shack?
02:01.39``Erikor the asian market?
02:01.40``ErikO.o
02:01.45brlcad:)
02:02.02homovulgarisat sgiselect.s i like intel syntax better, argh windows memories  
02:02.10brlcadbefore asian is my blessed scotch shop
02:02.21``ErikI doubt I can buy a single bottle of a drinkable beer at a liquor store... aint' no way I'm gonna drink something that comes as a "fourty"
02:02.32``Erikeck, intel syntax is teh ugliez, give me at&t style
02:02.46brlcadthey have a decent selection, surprising for the appearance outside
02:02.55homovulgarisbinutils also now supports intel syntax :)
02:03.16``Erik<-- has two nice stores around the corner from his house
02:03.57homovulgarisIt is just 7.40am , I want to have lunch and sleep
02:04.16brlcadhomovulgaris: that 0.26 mil of shell script is biased because of the regression scripts in regress/
02:04.21``Erikwow, almost sounds like you keep programmers hours :)
02:04.33brlcadthey have binary images encoded in ascii that are compared for regression testing
02:04.52*** join/#brlcad punkrockgirl (n=Pandora@c-69-243-244-154.hsd1.mo.comcast.net)
02:04.56brlcadyou'd have to exempt regress/
02:05.11brlcadhowdy punkrockgirl  (nice nick)
02:05.16homovulgarisyeah regress is around .23 mil :D
02:05.22punkrockgirlhi
02:05.24punkrockgirlthanks
02:05.39``Erikpunker is my bitch, btw, so put it away, boy
02:05.40``ErikO.o
02:05.44punkrockgirl:)
02:05.58punkrockgirlwait a second... bitch?  ;P
02:06.23``Erikeck, shaders.sh is ginormous
02:06.25brlcadhomovulgaris: otherwise, the bulk is in sh/ and bench/ .. which is about 9k
02:06.35``Erikhah
02:06.42``Erikshell script generate of the eagle logo. Ow.
02:06.50brlcadpunkrockgirl: i'll refrain from calling you that, but pleasure to (sorta) finally meet you
02:07.06punkrockgirlthanks, and you too :)
02:07.25``Erikwonders if the image can be shoved in as a pix and have a script use that to generate what it needs
02:07.45``Erikor, uh, since it generates a pix, just... have... a pix?
02:07.51brlcadthese days probably, especially with svn
02:08.00pooliohmm, where do I get a struct model from?
02:08.32brlcadpoolio: sounds like you're following tess()
02:08.35brlcadfor brep()
02:08.37poolioAye.
02:09.09brlcadto get that model struct, you'll have to follow the rt_functab caller that invokes tess() (which I sadly don't remember off-hand)
02:09.30``Erikdoh, extra_DIST != EXTRA_DIST
02:09.50``Erikbrlcad, you put in an order for my hocket helmet and water wings, right?
02:10.00brlcadheh, yep
02:10.14brlcadis going to do that just to see what W says
02:10.29``Erik"I'm not fat, I just have a sweet hockey body"
02:10.33``Erik-Cartman
02:10.34brlcadheh
02:11.23``Erik<-- prepping his brainfuck suite for release
02:11.42homovulgarisrunning enumerate made me realise i did not have dc :)
02:13.23``Erikenumerate? is this an attempt to re-implement jot?
02:13.57homovulgaris:O enumerate.sh i meant :)
02:14.00homovulgariswhats jot ?
02:14.00``Erikhates finding himself on linux when he needs something as fundamentally UNIX as jot... wtf doens't linux have that? :(
02:14.02``Erikoh, heh
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02:14.36``Erikjot prints a series of numbers... if you say "jot 10", it'll count from 1 to 10... it has the notion of stride and start, as well
02:14.49``Erikso "jot 10 10" will print 10, then 20, then 30, ... to 100
02:15.13homovulgarissomething like seq
02:15.22brlcadhomovulgaris: no dc? the horrors!
02:15.26``Eriker, no, "jot 10 10 100" will print that
02:15.42``Erikseq? I d'no that one... jot goe sback to the early 70's I believe
02:16.23brlcad``Erik: wow, I don't think I knew about jot ...
02:16.28``Eriksorry, early 80's
02:16.43``Erik42BSD
02:16.51brlcadwe effectively have our own implementation of it in brl-cad because there wasn't a prevalent means
02:17.14``Erikjot doesn't exist on linux
02:17.32homovulgarisseq does and does the same work .. except for jot -r i guess
02:17.32``ErikI wrote something kinda similar when I was at fedex because we were stuck fielding redhat boxes :/
02:17.49``Erik'enum.c
02:17.55``Eriki have it somewhere on some hard drive, I think
02:18.04brlcad/usr/brlcad/bin/loop
02:18.17brlcadloop 10 100 10
02:18.28``Erikhah
02:18.37``Eriksounds like someone knew about jot and missed it :d
02:18.38``Erik:D
02:18.50brlcadprobably
02:19.02brlcadthinks loop is a much better name though :)
02:19.39brlcaduses loop in a handful of the scripts
02:20.29``Erik*shrug* jot hails from '82 and is on every OS I seem to give a rats ass about :D
02:20.46``Erikthe ability to jot out characters is nice, too
02:21.33``Erik"jot -c 128 0" is an example in the mac manpage
02:24.40brlcadmebbie, but loop -c 128 0 would work just as well
02:24.46brlcadloop -c a z
02:25.48pacman87brlcad: don't get too excited about tess() yet, the code is still ugly
02:26.20homovulgarisbrlcad: hmm .. loop -c a z goes on printing zeros...
02:29.17``Erikheh :D
02:31.41``Erikhrm, '86 by mike
02:32.02brlcadhomovulgaris: hehe, you found a bug :)
02:32.27brlcadprobably reading -c as a negative number and getting stuck in an inf loop
02:32.51brlcadcourse it's invalid per the usage, loop doesn't do -c presently
02:33.14homovulgarishmm.. present src/util/loop.c has no functionality for -c
02:33.18brlcadpacman87: nfw, it's awesome .. I actually thought you'd get stuck on it for a while :)
02:33.37pacman87brlcad: i was stuck since monday
02:33.55brlcadwell longer :)
02:34.01brlcadand you fixed uv's in the meantime
02:34.08brlcadwhich reminds me
02:34.09pacman87i ended up having to read almost all of the other primitive's tess() functions
02:34.10brlcadupdates
02:34.26pacman87well, the uv fixes were just to fit to conventions
02:34.50pacman87uv took 15-20 characters changed
02:37.36brlcadyay, kernel panic
02:37.52pacman87what from?
02:38.08homovulgariskernel update :) ?
02:38.30brlcadpacman87: it's rarely ever number of lines or chars that matter when it comes to implementing new primitives
02:38.47brlcadI've been stuck for two weeks on three characters
02:39.14pacman87it's knowing what characters to change that's the hard part
02:39.40pacman87second half is starting, back later
02:39.48pacman87(go lakers)
02:40.19brlcadshakes fist at jeff hanes
02:40.49brlcadspeaking of jeff hanes .. homovulgaris, hope to get some quality regression testing in on your root solver changes soon
02:41.05brlcadit's not being ignored, just needs some more effort before it can be applied
02:41.18brlcadalso why it wasn't just assigned to you
02:46.22homovulgaris:)
02:47.36brlcadandrecastelo: yours however .. was assigned to you so you can determine if/when to close it out :)
02:48.06homovulgaristhinks what regression testing would involve
02:50.36brlcadapplying the changes, checking all instances of all callers, determining what public APIs were changed if any (and making appropriate deprecation statements or refactoring wrappers), running our regression test suite, creating a series of test polynomials that test edge cases, etc
02:51.12poolioUsers do the best testing :)
02:51.33brlcadvaliding that indeed nothing has changed computationally and/or seeing how to integrate it in a way that doesn't screw users that might rely on it
02:52.00brlcadpoolio: not when your user might die as a result of it not working
02:52.08homovulgarishmm.. yeah convention change is such a long process :)
02:52.35brlcadand for this code, invalid computation could have some pretty serious impacts if it has a subtle bug
02:52.35homovulgarishas a grumbling stomach.. :|
02:52.47pooliobrlcad: err...
02:53.10brlcadotherwise, I'd agree :)
02:53.34homovulgarisi am pretty sure there must be a bug lurking around ..:)
02:54.01brlcadwhat makes you think that?
03:07.01brlcad*crickets*
03:09.44homovulgariswell even after testing, i just felt like it happened too fast :P
03:09.56brlcadk
03:11.35homovulgarisbrlcad: could you check the wiki page. small changes and a few questions i think.. i am going out for a big brunch.. and sleep.. will check after that.. lots of work for the next 3 days
03:13.09brlcadjohn already answered at least one question
03:14.37brlcadat least a good comment to one of the points
03:19.00brlcadhomovulgaris: shift to pc.h earlier rather than later would be good (and raytrace.h would/could include pc.h if it needs it)
03:21.03brlcadi will be quite impressed if you can actually implement what you suggest in your solution class
03:21.43brlcadresolving to ranges of possible solutions, potentially ordered solution sets with preferred solutions
03:25.26brlcadalso, not sure if it's useful in your situation, but your solver might benefit from an interval arithmetic library (boost has one, it was recommended for C++0x inclusion but don't know if it made it)
03:25.40brlcadfor managing numeric ranges
03:29.43brlcadhttp://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_35_0/libs/numeric/interval/doc/interval.htm
03:29.46brlcadhttp://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2006/n2067.pdf
03:29.48brlcadfor reference
03:30.34brlcadpretty cool stuff, I wanted to implement a volumetric path tracer using interval arithmetic at one point ..
03:31.12brlcadmpfi is a lean n mean C implementation that'd be trivial to embed in your domain class
03:31.47pooliobrlcad: are the raytracing issues of brep objects regarding the floating point errors on edges outside of the tolerance range? Couldn't you just test all points against the tolerance in order to correct for the errors or is it _that bad_ ?
03:32.30brlcaddepends which tolerance you're talking about
03:33.15poolioWell, I was thinking about some distance in bn_tol
03:33.20brlcadregardless, even if you do -- simply testing all points against a tolerance doesn't solve it by itself
03:34.51brlcadso you determine you hit a curve or several curves within some tolerance .. you 1) can't easily compute that with any efficiency (like order of magnitude problems) and 2) even if you do, you still don't know if it was grazing exit or grazing entry without additional information
04:15.35andrecastelois back
04:15.40andrecastelowow, lots of logs
04:15.44andrecasteloreads
04:16.41pacman87wb andrecastelo
04:16.49pooliobrlcad: well don't you have that problem regardless of how you try to solve? Don't you always not know whether it's entering or exiting if you're going through an edge?
04:17.34andrecastelosup pacman87
04:17.44andrecastelobrlcad: mine what? the patch?
04:19.14pooliopacman87: purty pictures :)
04:19.36pacman87poolio: thanks ;)  purty, but slow atm
04:19.56pacman87have you tried it?
04:20.40pooliopacman87: nope, how do I make it run?
04:20.55poolioI should really read through the mged docs and learn how to actually use the software I code for :)
04:21.03pacman87start mged
04:21.28poolioI'm looking at a plotted hyp, how do I tesselate?
04:21.34pacman87"ev name"
04:22.08poolioah
04:22.20poolioschweet :)
04:22.31pacman87no bugs yet?
04:24.42pooliopacman87: yes siree: nmg_booltree_leaf_tess(hyp2.s): tessellation failure
04:24.42pooliodb_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/hyp2.s'
04:24.42poolio/hyp2.s:
04:24.58pacman87do "l hyp2.s"
04:25.21pooliodo you want all that rather then the in command?
04:25.28pacman87in works too
04:25.34pacman87if you still have it
04:26.08poolioin hyp4.s hyp 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 2 1 90
04:26.13poolioI think it's due to my crazy parameters :)
04:29.31pacman87hmmm, i'm getting bad pointer errors...
04:38.49pacman87Making all in libpc
04:38.50pacman87make[2]: Entering directory `/home/timothy/brlcad/brlcad/src/libpc'
04:38.50pacman87make[2]: *** No rule to make target `pc\_solver.lo', needed by `libpc_nil.la'.  Stop.
04:39.01andrecastelohm, cya guys, i'm out to sleep
04:39.10pacman87bye andre|away
04:41.32pacman87homovulgaris: did libpc compile for you?
04:42.20brlcadthat should be a simple Makefile.am fix
04:44.10pacman87brlcad: except that i don't really know my way around makefiles...
04:44.57brlcadwell, but you shouldn't need to :)
04:45.11brlcadlook at that line in the file that mentions solver
04:45.19brlcadsomething should look very wrong about it to you
04:45.20pacman87extra \
04:45.23brlcadeven in the error messgae
04:45.25homovulgarishi :)
04:45.50brlcadbingo
04:45.51homovulgarisyeah the \_ i had put in because there was some problem on my make system in recognizing underscore character
04:46.09homovulgarisyou can remove the \ :)
04:46.21pacman87should i go ahead and commit it?
04:46.26brlcadwhy not?
04:46.30poolioOne day I'm going to learn about all these autoconf tools and what not and not wait hours for brlcad to finish cleaning and recompiling
04:46.44homovulgaris:) brl-cad has a pretty nice build system :)
04:47.10homovulgarisi especially like the way posix shell scripts are generated instead of binaries :P
04:47.28pacman87make install takes 6 times longer than make for me, after a simple change to hyp.c
04:47.49brlcadpacman87: cd src/librt && make install
04:47.55brlcadyou shouldn't need to reinstall everything
04:48.15pacman87brlcad: yeah, i though of that 2 secs after i hit enter
04:48.48brlcadhomovulgaris: only one does that really
04:49.00poolioWhat really bugs me is how to 'make clean' it will sometimes have to reconfigure
04:49.04brlcadone out of 400
04:49.08homovulgarisbrlcad: i will check out boost's interval arithmetic thingy
04:49.58homovulgarisand any idea why i have to put \_ to get things working with my make :) maybe a debian issue
04:50.15pooliohomovulgaris: I run debian (sid) and haven't seen that issue
04:50.16brlcadand/or mpfr .. been thinking of using that for another task, gmp and its deps could be made fair game if they work
04:51.00homovulgarislike yesterday i was having trouble compiling primitives/bspline/nurb_*
04:51.17homovulgarisworked when i put them as bspline/nurb\_*
04:51.59homovulgarisand then they worked even when i removed them(\) .. even after clean ofcourse..
04:52.35pacman87chocolate milk... the midnight snack of champions :)
04:54.03homovulgarispoolio: i am on sid too . weird
04:55.00CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31381 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: if libpc is dependent upon libwdb, it needs to be listed here instead of the Makefile.am
04:55.40homovulgarisbrlcad: the whole include thing is a general mess, i need to really clean that part up
04:56.40CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31382 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/Makefile.am: remove the gnu-specific linker and compiler flags, configure controls those (and/or they can be specified at make time with make CXXFLAGS=-Wall for example). remove erroneous backslash
04:59.13CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31383 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/Makefile.am: include fast compilation rules for fast dependency-free distributed linkage
05:01.03CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31384 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libbu/Makefile.am librt/Makefile.am): hum, missing some fast entries
05:03.15pacman87poolio: that hyp isn't valid
05:04.28pooliopacman87: figures :) But shouldn't you be catching that?
05:04.38pacman87my version does...
05:04.44poolioah hmm. let me update again
05:04.55poolioah yah know, I built but I didn't install :) Sorry.
05:05.09pacman87you can run from src/mged/mged
05:07.47pooliopacman87: works now. Sorry I wasted your time mate
05:08.06pacman87np, poolio
05:10.18brlcadhomovulgaris: fyi: table.c:1007: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
05:10.21brlcadtable.c:1008: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
05:11.16homovulgariswell got to do with the function declarations of constraint export import etc. will check it
05:11.22homovulgarisi thought i had fixed that
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05:15.44pacman87bedtime for me, if anyone breaks hyp, i'll be back in the morning to put it back together :)
05:21.52homovulgarisgn pacman
05:22.19homovulgarisis unable to sleep thinking about constraint solver architecture
05:45.39homovulgarisis going to dream about solver now :)
05:47.37poolionite homovulgaris
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08:21.47poolioArgh. I was 3 characters short from working code... "C" ... darn C++.
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11:06.44CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31385 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/Makefile.am: the private headers must be declared so they will be included in the source dist, else distcheck failure
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14:00.40mafmholy excrement
14:00.49mafmI must have eaten a cow or two :P
14:03.37brlcadheh
14:05.33mafmI think that the gsoc rules should forbid about going to brazilian restaurants before coding
14:05.42mafm(that would be bad for andrecastelo, though...)
14:07.42brlcadhehe
14:07.54*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5B14E08C.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:07.56brlcadmmm.. I haven't been to brazillian in a long while..
14:10.07mafmI go very often, there are lots of them here
14:10.55mafmI wanted to eat [shell]fish today, because it's a very hot day and I'm tired, but I tried several restaurants and they're closed today
14:11.04mafmso... no escape
14:21.37mafmbrlcad: so about the logging & console guidelines?
14:24.09brlcadmmm...
14:24.41brlcadlogging is an age-old pet project of mine
14:25.19brlcadI'd just start with something really simple, maybe just a Logger singleton that sends via cout for now
14:25.46brlcadno levels or categories, just straight up simple logging
14:26.01brlcadas long as the hooks are in the right place, the rest can be added alter
14:26.06brlcads/alter/later/
14:27.35mafmI see
14:27.45brlcadsound reasonable?
14:27.47mafmI was wondering if you wanted me to use libbu for that
14:28.08brlcadat this point it doesn't matter quite yet
14:28.14brlcadyou could use bu_log
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14:28.26mafmOK, singleton would be
14:28.39brlcadi mean the logger singleton would/could call bu_log
14:28.57mafmand about the console?
14:28.59brlcador cerr/cout, etc -- so long as it's encapsulated, it doesn't matter
14:30.58brlcadso the console is going to be a bit tricky
14:31.08brlcadas you're working on something the rest of the core devs are also working on
14:31.18brlcadthere's a big effort going on now on the development of a new geometry service
14:32.25brlcadthat geometry service entails refactoring most of mged into libged for basic geometry editing command functionality, the development of an OO API layer on top for geometry management, and a network service layer for accessing a geometry database (which is what you'd ultimately connect to)
14:33.21brlcadalas those are very much bleeding edge developments, so you're working in tandem, and the console needs to pretend that there's this service that it'll be talking to even though it doesn't yet functionally exist
14:34.29mafmI see
14:34.56brlcadit should be ready in a couple weeks, but for now I think the best plan will be for you to stub in some functionality into rt^3dbd so that it basically does what brlcad/src/gtools/gtransfer does
14:35.12brlcadthen have your gui attach to rt^3dbd and get its list of commands
14:35.41mafmand I should try to copy MGED layouts and functionalities but with stubs, or do you guys have another plans for that?
14:35.58brlcadyeah, other plans
14:37.48brlcadyou can hook the dbd into libged if you like, there is some functionality already in there that can be leveraged, but I think the basic goal will be to be able to run just a handful of commands on the console that amount to "get list of available geometry, load/draw geometry"
14:38.26brlcadat that point, you'll have a display list that you can then work out the rest of the gui interface for input and trackball support
14:39.12brlcadif you want to forego the dbd layer for starters, you could, but it should ideally end up being protocol-driven
14:40.05brlcadI'd suggest taking a look at what g_transfer is doing and see if you can get dbd and your gui talking to each other the same way
14:40.56brlcadmake sense?
14:43.44mafmyep, OK, I'll look into it
14:43.55mafmI was looking for info in the wiki too
14:43.59brlcadotherwise, the other tasker is to make it trivial for others to compile :)
14:44.34mafmrbgui guys didn't tell anything yet
14:44.41brlcadthere's a fair bit about the geometry service at http://brlcad.org/wiki/Geometry_Service
14:44.48brlcadlinked from the Developer_Documents page
14:45.11mafmbased in the size of OGRE & friends as I pasted yesterday, should I still integrate OGRE?
14:45.24brlcadthe dev that uploaded that stuff is a little uml-happy, so have to weed through a bit to get to the guts
14:45.37brlcadah, you missed my reply :)
14:46.05mafmyup, I disconnected shortly thereafter, there were people waiting for me for the party :D
14:46.13brlcadwe have nearly 1M of external code in the main brl-cad module.. :)  .. tcl/tk alone is about 500k sloc
14:46.47brlcadthe point isn't so much the size as providing a one-stop delivery for folks that *don't* have those deps already installed
14:46.49mafmhmm, that's biggish
14:46.55brlcadas disk space is pretty damn cheap
14:47.27brlcadcourse with the brl-cad module, we still have more brl-cad code than external code and with this new project, ogre would certainly dwarf it
14:47.47mafmyet I think OGRE is a bit different though, since in example I'm using now trunk (~1.7) instead of latest stable (1.4.8), because RBGui depending on some functionalities
14:47.49brlcadthe idea, though, is to usually sort out the build system so that it *only* ever builds it if the user doesn't have it installed
14:48.08brlcadso you basically just save them a download and make compilation/integration easy
14:48.49mafmbut OK, I'll do what you want :)
14:48.52brlcadthat sort of requirement for a special ogre is actually exactly one of the sort of reasons why we do often embed
14:49.09brlcadyou don't have to for ogre, at least not yet
14:49.22brlcadbut then the installation instructions need to be specific
14:49.29brlcadand the patch sets need to be handy
14:49.39brlcad(in the repository)
14:50.26mafmat the moment only RBGui/Mocha need, with Ogre it would be either to have the patch, or using trunk
14:50.44brlcadso what do you think about rbgui?
14:51.07brlcadworth sticking with?
14:51.09mafmmaybe (wild guess) even they make a new release with that included in the next few weeks
14:51.18mafmI like it better than CEGUI at the moment
14:51.30brlcadyeah, I don't really care about the build integration issues, we can deal with that :)
14:51.41brlcadit's more features, usability, ease of use, etc
14:52.07brlcadhow easy is it to skin? I saw you added a brlcad.skin
14:52.15mafmfeature-wise I think that they're about the same, but RBGui doesn't use XML (I'm not big fan of it, in example for speed considerations), and feels more responsive etc
14:52.41mafmthat skin was only for the new font
14:52.50brlcadah, k
14:53.07mafmand I don't know about automatic tools (I think that both of them have, but I never used)
14:53.11brlcadhow hard would it be to do a non-overlapping layout?
14:53.24mafmbut not having XML is a bit more manageable to edit by hand
14:53.44brlcadnods
14:54.01mafmand it's based in PNG images, so in that sense both of them are also similar (no SVG or the like)
14:54.41brlcadthat's a shame :/
14:54.52brlcadbut okay
14:54.54mafmabout overlapping, I still don't have an idea of the GUI elements that need to be present at a given time, so I can't tell
14:56.28brlcadminimally the elements -- a console, a 3D view, an informational pane
14:57.13mafmI guess that you saw the screenshots -- at the moment I put a little console in the bottom (30% or so) of the page
14:57.29mafmbut MGED console is different, is a separate window
14:57.30brlcadother elements include a command overlay, some sense of progress/status (maybe a status bar or status corner), "maybe" a menu bar or menu corner
14:57.34mafmOGRE can do that, too
14:57.45brlcadforget mged's gui for now
14:58.07brlcadif we wanted to keep mged, you wouldn't have a gsoc project :)
14:58.25brlcads/mged/mged's appearance and usability/
14:58.26mafmand that MGED console had a lot of menus to do things... so that's why I was wondering what were your plans about that
14:59.15brlcadyou did see the IOE prototype?
14:59.35mafmwhat's that, the video that you sent me a few weeks ago?
14:59.45brlcadyes
15:01.02brlcadtake another look at that if you need, http://brlcad.org/design/gui/ioe_proto_final.mov
15:01.10mafmI did but I already forgot :D
15:01.19mafmyup, already downloading it
15:01.36brlcadtry to use that as a guide for the gui, see how close you can get (both in look and interaction)
15:02.15brlcadbecause if you can, that captures most of the basic layout/interaction requirements
15:03.05brlcadmenus, pages, buttons, menubars, drag n drop, non-overlapping panels, overlay input, etc
15:03.12mafmOK, watching it from stream
15:03.52brlcaddoesn't have to necessarily include the task manager or the same tasks of course, yours are somewhat different
15:04.02mafmah, another question that I remembered now -- how about the target systems? As many as possible, only Unices, only Win+Mac+Lin?
15:04.07brlcadbut the *gui* aspects are still about the same
15:04.55brlcadin general, as many as possible, though focusing on the latter win/mac/lin
15:05.40brlcadif rbgui really needs a fair bit of work to work on mac/linux then I'd leave that to someone else (unless it's got some fundamental limitation)
15:05.48brlcadso you can make progress on the gui
15:08.52brlcadin fact, I only mentioned rt^3dbd so that you can add the right hooks to get geometry for the 3D display -- you could just as easily fake it
15:10.43mafmheh, the video is very good
15:11.39mafm(lin including bsds, we don't want Erik to get mad at us!)
15:12.37mafmRBGui needs only some small pieces from the OS
15:13.14brlcadincluding mac almost implicitly gives you *bsd
15:13.16mafmthey have it abstracted in a platform manager, where you can fill it the way to get a directory listing, keyboard autorepeat, and things like that -- but they're 10 or less
15:14.04brlcadcool, some of that we cover in libbu
15:14.24brlcadstarseeker actually just added a routine for getting a directory listing from nix platforms
15:15.07mafmyep, and in fact they're manageable enough so I think that I could take responsibility for that for RBGui
15:15.38mafmthat would boost a bit probably the community interest in it, and thus it would be a benefit for both projects :)
15:23.09brlcadyep
15:31.35mafmwhat's that ioe thing?
15:32.08mafmInstitute of Education University of London?
15:58.23``Erikbut but but what about solaris? and aix? and hpux? and irix? and uh, beos? uhhh, amigaos? what about my commodore 64? :D haiku? uh, awos? hrmmm, lispos?
15:58.29``Erik:D
16:00.28``Erik"talk is cheap. supply exceeds demand"
16:00.59mafmI think that we should target DOS users too
16:01.16mafmand make the GUI ascii-art worthy
16:01.20mafm:)
16:01.51mafmI think that the #defines used by RBGui are exactly POSIX, WIN32 and OSX
16:03.18mafmanything with usual file-accesing interfaces and X11 should work
16:04.53mafmhttp://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Please-Pay-000.aspx
16:05.07mafm"A system call that should never failed has fail"
16:05.44mafmIt seems that There Might Be Dragons with our Win32 port too :)
16:06.03mafmfail* has failed* even
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16:18.05brlcadmafm: he says what it is in the introduction
16:19.17mafmoh
16:19.53mafmit took a while until I put the headphones on, so I had missed those first seconds
16:20.25mafmanyway I knew it, the ideal operation environment is command-line-driven! :P
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16:33.34mafmbuff, I'd better go out for a walk, I can't concentrate today
16:34.36mafmsee you, folks
16:43.11brlcadheh
16:43.28brlcaddriven != always accessible
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18:07.25pacman87hmmm, it looks like ehy's curve() is useless
18:07.59pacman87does a nice job calculating, then overwrites the values at the end...
18:51.19brlcadhehe
18:51.25brlcadfix it! :)
18:53.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31386 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/wdb_obj.c: Temporarily commenting out the dump command.
18:58.16CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31387 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (cmd.c setup.c): Temporarily commenting out the dump command.
18:58.43pacman87when is curve() used?
19:00.14CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31388 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ehy/ehy.c: fix curve() so the calculated values are actually used
19:01.28brlcadI believe the curvature lighting model uses it
19:01.35brlcadrt's -l option
19:01.40brlcad(i think)
19:01.56pacman87i'm just wondering why ehy's curve was never caught
19:02.03pacman87it's been wrong since at least 2004
19:02.26brlcadthat lighting model isn't used very often
19:03.01pacman87is there a way to color the shape depending on the curvature at that point?
19:03.02brlcadand ehy is a "specialized" shape not found too frequently in practice
19:03.17brlcadthat's what I'm saying, rt's lighting model
19:03.24brlcadone of them is based on curvature
19:20.18pacman87rt -l isnt' right
19:30.34pooliois having the worst friday the 13th ever
19:30.44pacman87poolio: why's that?
19:31.04poolioWell...I was flying to Madison, WI through detroit. Made it to detroit, second leg was cancelled, the flight isn't until 5pm.
19:31.05``Erikyou've only gotten 3 people with your chainsaw and it's already 3:30?
19:31.24poolioI also spent the better part of today in a hospital in detroit so ... yeah. very unlucky day
19:54.02prasad_tim russert dead
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20:18.56poolioprasad_: that too :(
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21:11.08CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31389 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Minor mod.
21:11.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31390 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/ (Display.tcl Dm.tcl): Minor mods.
21:16.18CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31391 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: Moved wdb_log, wdb_result, wdb_result_str and wdb_result_flags to struct ged.
21:17.20CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31392 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: Mods related to libged.
21:18.40*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177871429.dsl.bell.ca)
21:19.17CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31393 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/argv.c: Before freeing argv[i], make sure it's not NULL
21:44.03CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31394 10/brlcad/trunk/ (24 files in 4 dirs): Checking in for safety. These are mods related to fleshing out libged.
21:50.34CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31395 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/draw.c: Drawing routines from dg_obj
21:50.58CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31396 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (CMakeLists.txt Makefile.am): Added draw.c
22:45.10*** part/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@h-72-245-122-226.mclnva23.covad.net)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080614

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080614

00:15.25``Erikso, uh
00:15.28``Erikthis one time, at band camp
00:43.14*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
01:35.42``Erikponders the notion of each eye having a blue/red favor
01:37.15``Erikdr who... regular is a very red/yellow visual, lighening is a very blue one... my brain sees that as a horizontal shift
02:21.34*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=Timothy@71.170.63.120)
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08:57.22*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5B14F5DB.dip.t-dialin.net)
10:01.48*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@77.237.104.91)
11:54.46brlcadheh, nice: http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=583059&cid=23780095
12:10.59``Eriksounds about right
12:18.48*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
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13:24.49``ErikI find it annoying that svn uses hard coded 'shortcuts' instead of a parse trie
13:39.39*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
13:40.16``Erikblargh, apple has a special way of handling bss segments
13:40.28``Erik"special", like, hockey helmet and water wings, yo
13:42.23mafmhi cuties :P
13:43.12brlcadheh
13:43.12``Erikeeks *flee*
13:43.50``Eriky'know, I'm watching history channel here
13:44.14``Erikabout the amistace and surrender of the empire of germany in ww1
13:44.20``Erikcanada really fucked a lot of people over
13:45.11``Erikgerman delegation was trying to move quickly under a deadline with a white flag up, and kept getting pinned down by canadian fire (german fire once, but mostly canadian)
13:45.40``Erikshakes fist at canada, yet again
13:45.49``Erik:D
13:45.54brlcadblames canada too
13:46.10``Erik"history international" channel
13:46.13``Erikif interested
13:46.34brlcadthinks dr who and bsg might win
13:46.44``Erikwatched 'em last night :D
13:46.46``Erikno tivo
13:46.55brlcadtsk tsk :)
13:47.05``Erikdr who was good.. bsg has... changed
13:47.08``Eriklost their way, yo
13:47.22brlcadhook up some mythtv yo
13:47.29``Erikbeen thinking about it
13:47.40``ErikI
13:48.05``ErikI'd like the ability to save 2-3 channels in 'decent' quality (dont' need perfect) to an NFS share
13:48.44``Eriklack the hw right now, but if I had it, I'd throw my codin' time on that like a mofo
13:49.11``Erikflipping who the bitch is in the tv equation would be nice :)
13:50.46``Erikboth fbsd and linux offer a bss glop ability... ".local heap\n.comm heap,30000,32" style
13:51.00``Erikthe apple approach seems to be ... uh, sbrk style
13:51.09``Erikwho the FUCK uses sbrk style memory management these days???
13:51.36brlcadheh
13:51.50brlcadabout 1 in 10 apparently
13:51.51``Erikleal -30012(%ebp), %eax
13:51.53``Erikuh? :D
13:52.18``Erikis dorking with his compiler, trying to make the asm output as generic as possible...
13:53.31``Erikoutside of the opcode set, it seems that there is the "classic sensibility" (called "unix" style by all the sites), linux violates... many of those (function call convention), and mac violates teh very few that linux adhered to
13:53.37``Erik(says the bsd zealot)
13:55.29``Erikhrm, this seems cheap to me... modern video, sepia toned.. obviously not original footage... why sepia it?
13:57.17brlcadartistic license?
13:58.42``Erikperhaps, but it's history cahnnel, they're showing re-enactments in full color, modern quality... and then there's this scene that is modern video... sepia toend
13:59.00``Erikmy typing is guud
13:59.16``ErikI IS GEORGE DUBYA TYPINATOR!
14:32.15*** join/#brlcad homovulgaris (n=homovulg@202.63.233.61)
14:36.51mafmhi homovulgaris
14:52.49``Erik"Americans live to work. Spanish work to live." painfully true O.o
14:53.05``Erik(history channel commercial)
14:54.18mafmSpanish or Spaniards?
14:56.21mafmthat's about to change anyway
14:57.28mafmEuropean Commision passed a law, or something to that effect, so that workers will be able to "freely agree" with the employer how much time to work up to 65 hours/week
14:58.03mafmthat's 13 hours/day if you work 5 days, 11 if you work 6 days, 9 if you work all days of the week
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15:00.12``ErikI'm quoting a commercial
15:00.40``ErikI thought 34 a week was 'normal' for most of europe
15:00.47``Erikopposed to the 40+ of us
15:01.16mafmin general it's 40 for the most lucky ones -- e.g. people in supermarkets and bars usually work more
15:01.26``Erikhum
15:01.47``Erikwhen I was doing 'part time' work, it was hard to get up to 40 (more than 40 means overtime pay, extra expense)
15:02.15``Erikwhen I was doing "professional" work, it was hard to get under 60
15:02.18mafm37.5 or 35 is only for some special cases like government workers, or some law that tried to pass france 10 years ago or something (but now France was pushing that EU thing)
15:02.25``Eriknow I'm doing gov't work... it's 40, damnit.
15:02.41mafmand government workers usually work 20 hours a day, nevermind what their contract say :D
15:02.51``Erikheh
15:03.05``Erikbrlcad does 20 hour days, but he'll do two of them and enjoy the rest of his week relaxing :D
15:03.24``Erikand by relaxing, i mean coding brlcad and bzflag, but what HE cares about, not his paycheck signer
15:03.33mafmlol
15:03.45mafmthis reminds me of a co-worker who is a voluntary fireman
15:03.55``ErikI do a little "above and beyond", but I find it hard anymore :/
15:04.32mafmbut the professional firemen are forced (not by choice of relaxing, like brlcad) to spend some nights as "volunteers"
15:04.43``Erikyeah, but that's a signup thing
15:04.52``ErikI have friends who do that here
15:05.07``Erikand, heh, lost a gf to one of those, cuz 'firemen are sexy'...
15:05.34``Erikeven with that, I still respect volunteer firefighters, emt, etc
15:06.28``Erikhrm, I threw on this "man made marvels in asia" hoping to see historic awesomeness, it's about an upcoming high speed rail in south korea
15:07.34mafmlol... women love them because of the phallic image of the "pipe" (whatever the proper name) :D
15:07.50``Erikhose
15:07.57``Erikprobably
15:07.59``Erikheh
15:08.22``Erik"I fucked him because he loaned me his cellphone"... I seem to have made some mistakes :D I sure hope punker ain't one O.o
15:09.16``Erikhow's the ogre thingie coming?
15:09.39``ErikI've been ignoring it, it's c++ and in another dir, so.. *shrug* not my big thing, but ... any visual results?
15:09.39mafm:D
15:10.02mafmnot bad I think
15:10.14``Erikis rbgui off the table?
15:10.16mafmhttp://wainu.ii.uned.es/~mafm/brlcad/brlcad_rbgui_20080612-1.png
15:10.23mafmlast screenie
15:11.08mafmI'm trying to implement the supporting bits now, like logging
15:11.10``Erikhrmmm, fairly reasonable toolkit, visually
15:11.41``Eriklogging like printing to a file trivial style, or "just use syslog" style?
15:12.52mafmwell, I'm implementing it in a class where they'll call a single function to do the final printing, so it can be changed easily
15:13.14mafma.t.m. brlcad recommended to focus only in the abstraction
15:13.26``Erik*nod*
15:13.31mafmthen maybe use libbu for that
15:14.09``Eriknow I'm gonna raise up the opposing concern, I've seen good projects turned to crap when a 'tard gets in the mix and worships abstraction and 'refactoring' to absurdum
15:15.42mafmwell, this is only something like: Logger.logERROR(message);
15:15.43``Erikif you think it'd be more time to abstract than it'd be to "just do it" and "just do it again" when ya realize you did it wrong, that might be the point to "just do it"... but brlcad is the lead here *shrug* allz I can say is my experiences
15:16.07``Erik<-- is talking... um, abstracted, instead of just doing it ;)
15:16.22mafmwhich calls Logger.log("ERROR", "message"); or something to that effect, which will format the line and print it with cerr at the moment
15:16.33``Erikthat looks like a good abstraction
15:17.15mafmI just meant abstraction in the sense that it won't call "cerr" directly in the rest of the classes, and so it'll have a central point to change the file destination, message format and so on
15:17.24``Erikyes
15:17.42mafmand so use libbu, syslog or whatever is easy to implemtn
15:17.52mafm:)
15:18.36``ErikI've seen collosal failures, i'm scared that someone might see their way into that turf... I mean, java programs where an interface is defined... and then a class is defined to "implement" that, but it's a completely abstract class (no content).. and then antoher class extends THAT, but has no guts... and then ANOTHER class extends that, and zomfg, the first content, 4 abstractions down!
15:19.03``Erikso I have a paranoia against anything pointing in that direction :)
15:19.34``ErikI'll sit in the corner and say 'why not just do it?', feel free to ignore me ;)
15:20.14mafmin general I also hate complex hierarchies and relations
15:20.18``Erikpersonally tends to implement, then "refactor" and abstract when it becomes obvious that it should be abstracted, probably a bad approach
15:20.50``Erikand when I do hit that point, I do it... I like C macros for that in BRL-CAD...
15:21.08``Eriksrc/libbu/image.c is what happens when I go there :D
15:21.24``Erikso I'm sure others appreciate when I don't get that hair (hare?) up my arse
15:23.01mafm:D
15:23.34mafmI'm no big fan of magnificent previous designs either
15:23.59mafmin this case it's easy for me because I used similar classes several times
15:24.19mafmLogging is something that you have to do everywhere :D
15:25.41mafmand it's pretty standard stuff: different classes of messages with increasing priority, filter by priority, and just call methods to log the messages
15:25.41``Erik*nod*
15:26.21``Eriksyslog "solved" that long ago in my mind, but tends to require superuser knowledge/privelege
15:28.51mafmdoes it? I think that in debian, processes running as non-root users can also use it
15:30.04mafmanyway, Windows systems don't have the same thing and I think that there are small nuisances with the Unices too
15:30.09``Erikyeah, non-root can trasmit, but setting things up requires rootage
15:30.34``Eriktransmitting log messages to a remote machine is damn sexy
15:30.55``Eriklog4j is a feeble attempt to imitate
15:31.12``Erikimho :D
15:31.48``Erikhears an owl O.o at 11:30 am, on a hot summer day
15:33.08mafmsetting things up? file destinations and so on?
15:33.12``Erikyeah, the config files
15:34.24mafmin this case, it would be the user who could set the log level, reading from a config file or something to that effect
15:34.47mafmthen the destination could go anyware
15:35.07mafmso if syslog lets you, it'll get logged there
15:36.41mafmhmm, with the preprocessor, you can in example ##DEBUG to get the string "DEBUG", right?
15:39.16``Erikuhmmm, i'd have to look that up
15:39.19``Eriksounds about right
15:39.37``Erikis it a#b for concatenation and ##a for 'string, not symbol'?
15:39.50``Erikor the other way around? i always have to look that up
15:40.36``ErikI have a gut feeling that a##b is concat and #a is 'as string'
15:40.44mafmhmm
15:41.46mafmI think that I'll just do it by hand, they're few and it's more flexible this way :D
15:42.03``Eriksadly, my answer it to look up http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=933411&group_id=28255&atid=392815
15:42.04``Erik:(
15:43.04``Erika#b, ##a.
15:43.18``Erikawz wrong
15:43.20``ErikI admit it
15:43.31mafm:D
15:43.34mafmthank you
15:44.06mafmbut in the end I think that setting it by hand it's a bit better in this case
15:44.11``ErikC "macros" are horrible to start with, look at lithp and thcheme for the real deal
15:44.12``Erikok
15:45.10``Erikwait, what? a video game based on, uh, what, larry the cable guy, as a military unit? O.O
15:49.10mafmit was not a macro per se... it's only to translate the log levels to string, when composing the message
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15:52.21``Erikmoin, andre
15:53.06mafmhi andre|away
15:53.23mafmhmm, is using va_list and the like fair game?
15:58.19``Erikwe have several apps that do
15:58.41``Erikgrep it up, yo
16:18.28mafmdo you think that it's ok to put a char buffer[] as file-global variable? it doesn't look very elegant to me
16:20.54``Erikum, "it depends"
16:21.15``Erikare you questioning an exiting piece of software, or contemplating your next move?
16:21.25mafmnext
16:21.28mafmlet me explain
16:22.13mafmbasically, instead of making folks to format their messages, and having to write "Logger.log(Logger::FATAL, msgString);"
16:22.27mafmpreformatting the string with sstream, or vprintf or the like
16:22.56mafmI think that it's more convenient to do: Logger.logFATAL("regular printf %s", "syntax");
16:22.58``Erikhrm, c++ allows, um, a default in a, uh, what do they call it, uh, member?
16:23.10``Erikthat can be overridden?
16:23.26mafmyes
16:23.44``Eriknew Logger(fmt="%s is busted, yo"); or something?
16:24.15``Erikso instead of a global, have a default in your logger object?
16:24.22mafmthe thing is that, I do the vprintf parsing in those functions, and then I hand the fixed message string to log(), to do the rest of the process (adding timestamp, print to stderr/syslog/whatever)
16:24.25``Erikis that going to be a singleton "pattern"?
16:24.51mafmsame concept, but I eliminated the singleton for verbosity :D
16:25.19``Erik"eliminated the singleton for verbosity"... I don't understand
16:25.27mafmhmm, I don't know if it's better to be elegant or succint in something used like this
16:25.30``Erikyou have multiple logger instances writing to the same file?
16:25.55mafmsingleton would be: Logger::instance().log(Logger::DEBUG, "message");
16:26.11mafmthis one is only one instance, because methods are static
16:26.16``Erikwell, a singleton CAn be l = new Logger();
16:26.45``Erikand the constructor figures out to reference a static existing thingie and just return it, or create new shizzlenitz, iirc
16:27.13``Erikhasn't done c++ in quite a while, and views the notion of a "design pattern" as a failure in the language
16:28.25mafmhmm, well.. that's another possibility, but it's more or less the same, and you have to create the object before using it :D
16:29.13mafmso in the way that I'm creating it, it's just the most similar way to a printf -- which is good when you have to type it a lot of times, I think
16:29.48mafmhmm, it's already working, maybe I should post it so you can see it, istead of explaining it
16:33.05``Erikthe typical singleton pattern has an object created once, and a method that says "does it exist?  yes? pass it, otherwise, create and pass"
16:33.21``Erikso the second consumer gets a reference to the original instance
16:37.37``Erikhas always wanted a pilot license
16:40.14mafmI'm about to post it
16:40.20mafmpost/commit :)
16:42.01CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31397 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (5 files): Adding @author keywork for Doxygen documentation, so anybody can easily find out who is to blame.
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16:42.59``Erikhm, in zomfg brlcad/, we've moved all authors out of files and into /AUTHORS, depending on the commit record for blame
16:44.42CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31398 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Logger.cxx Logger.h): Adding Logging facilities
16:45.48mafmthere it is
16:47.02mafmhttp://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Logger.cxx?view=markup&pathrev=31398
16:47.08mafmhttp://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Logger.h?view=markup&pathrev=31398
16:50.22mafmso what do you think, ``Erik?
16:52.35``Erikhrm
16:52.39``Erikstrftime is expensive
16:53.24``Erikstatic char in log() is not reentrant, so you could get "odd results" in parallel ops
16:53.50mafmexample msg: 20080614_17:52:50 :: INFO :: Application starting
16:53.51``ErikI d'no how efficient String += is
16:54.02``Eriksnprintf might be cheaper/easier
16:55.10mafmis there an alternative to strftime?
16:55.25``Erikno
16:55.40``Erikeither don't mkae it static (so it uses pre-threat memory), or wrap it in a semaphore or something
16:56.02``Erikper-thread, even
16:56.03``Erikheh
16:56.44mafmyeah, non-static is fine
16:56.55mafmallocating in stack is cheap, anyway
16:58.12mafmhmm... maybe I should take advantage of strftime to format the full log message
17:00.22mafmno way, only time-related markup allowed
17:11.17mafm``Erik: but you think that it's better in this way, or with the Singleton?
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18:43.14brlcadmafm: either static or singleton should be fine (for this, for now)
18:43.40brlcadthe point yesterday was actually to keep it intentionally/exceptionally "thin" for the time being since the requirements are utterly minimal
18:44.22mafmwell, did you see the code? good enough?
18:44.27brlcadso you don't spend even a couple hours working on logging when there are some unified longer-term plans in that area ;)
18:44.34brlcadyeah, it looks good enough
18:44.47brlcadthere are a few problem areas, but they can be tackled later
18:44.54brlcadthe class should be moved to the utility library
18:45.06mafmI already fixed the non-reentrant area
18:45.11mafmuh
18:45.21brlcadanything generic like that should be in Utility
18:45.45mafmwell, I'm putting everything in the same place at the moment, I still didn't grasp the whole rt^3 masterplan :)
18:46.16brlcadthat much was evident, hence why I mention it :)
18:46.46brlcadfrom your perspective, it's just a matter of putting the generic functionality into a different dir
18:46.52mafmwhere should I put the data, btw?
18:47.05brlcadlike resource files?
18:47.10mafmyep
18:47.14mafmmisc/g3d/data?
18:47.42brlcadmake a new top-level dir, data/g3d
18:48.18mafmoki
18:48.20brlcadmisc is a kitchen sink for script utilities and helper tools
18:48.22mafmhmm
18:48.27brlcadsnippets
18:49.12mafmI think that I'm accumulating things in my dir, but that's to keep the makefile simple... maybe it's time to prepare it to build before going farther
18:52.08brlcadyeah, getting to more easily buildable state would be a good thing
18:53.29brlcadthe longer that languishes, the more of a pain it'll be .. same as with organizaing into bundles of functionality into the lib dirs
18:54.48brlcadit's not so much as to follow any semblance of a masterplan for what's already there as the intent is to keep things organized from the start into reusable classes to prevent application logic from leaking into what should otherwise be generalized functionality
18:55.25brlcadmafm: how have you been building so far?  a custom makefile?
18:55.42mafmyep
18:55.50mafmthere are 3 classes... :D
18:56.52brlcadand you pre-compiled/installed the three dependencies independently?
18:57.07brlcadso you're just using -logre -lrbgui etc?
18:57.29brlcadplus a few other include/linker flags
18:59.16mafmmore or less, yes (but with pkg-config)
18:59.44brlcadok, cool
19:00.45mafmI think that cmake has direct support for it
19:02.25brlcadpacman87: you should add a NEWS entry for your ehy bug fix
19:03.03brlcadmafm: have you ever used cmake before?
19:03.33brlcadsince this is starting from scratch for the most part, cmake could very well be used
19:04.15mafmonly for very basic things, but yes... it could be an experiment
19:04.24mafmAqsis used it, in example
19:05.22brlcadI know of tons of projects that use it, it'd be perfectly viable for this if you want to set it up
19:06.16brlcadthe only reason we don't use it (yet) for the main brl-cad code is because we have a rather large and complex build system, it'd take months to fully replace the functionality we have at very minimal benefit
19:06.36brlcadfor something new though, a lot more sense
19:06.54mafmfine :)
19:06.55brlcadi'm fine with autotools too, that easily the more well known approach
19:07.21brlcadso whatever suits you, but it should be early on if you do want to do that, not later
19:07.54brlcadand it should parallel the options configure provides
19:11.34mafmI'll try to look into it either tomorrow or monday
19:11.48mafmbefore going on with other ideas
19:11.59brlcadokay, then I won't spend half the weekend working on dependency integration :)
19:34.26CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31399 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Logger.cxx Logger.h):
19:34.26CIA-22BRL-CAD: Adding GCC __attribute__ when available, to check for ill-formed string formats,
19:34.26CIA-22BRL-CAD: missing arguments and the like -- avoids one class of segfaults, and in general
19:34.26CIA-22BRL-CAD: helps a lot. Also improved a bit the way to generate the final string.
19:36.09CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31400 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Application.cxx GuiConsole.cxx): Make use of the new logging facilities in a couple of places, mainly for testing it.
19:37.28CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31401 10/rt^3/trunk/src/data/ (. g3d/): Adding new directory for data files of applications, in particular g3d
19:41.43mafmwell folks, see you tomorrow or on monday -- maybe tomorrow I'll get a rest :)
19:41.47mafmsee you
19:41.55brlcadsee ya!
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22:49.17``Erikalso; an automake approach requires no special crud for a packager or end user (who compiles) to think about, cmake DOES
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080615

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080615

01:08.47punkrockgirlhi
01:23.50pacman87punkrockgirl: hi
01:25.20punkrockgirl:)
01:25.28punkrockgirli'm dj'ing if you guys wanna hear
01:25.42punkrockgirlwww.troubleradio.net
01:28.49pacman87your 'listener forums' link is broken
01:30.20punkrockgirlyeah, its not mine ;)
01:30.30punkrockgirli just dj, this other dude runs it
01:30.44punkrockgirlbut i'll tell him :)
01:31.00punkrockgirlare you listening? :)
01:31.27pacman87yeah
01:31.52punkrockgirlcool
01:32.10punkrockgirlif you wanna hear something let me know, most my music is on my playlist thing on there
01:32.20punkrockgirli need to update though
01:37.53punkrockgirlok i asked him he said that he is working on the forums
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05:38.11brlcadtunes in
05:43.10brlcadcould go for some Gravity Kills
05:43.32brlcad( punkrockgirl )
07:24.05CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31402 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/: ignore generated goo
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12:00.35tjyanganyone online ?
12:26.26clock_is online
12:36.31tjyangThanks, for the response. I fount the answer of my own (brlcad beginner) question.
12:37.38tjyangjust a comment. why not make a "demo" button, in either mged or archer to show off what brlcad can do.
12:38.00tjyangit took me a while by RTFM ;-<
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13:35.47brlcadtjyang: that's a good suggestion, you're quite welcome to work on that if you're a developer :)
13:36.03brlcadi'd be glad to point you in the right directions and help out
13:37.20tjyanghow will started with baby step by putting a simple procedure on brlcad wiki site.
13:37.49tjyangwho will -> I will
13:38.07brlcadgreat!
13:43.59tjyanghttp://brlcad.org/wiki/FAQ#How_do_I_getting_started_with_Windows_version_of_BRL-CAD
13:44.59brlcadHm, that'll only get you so far -- Archer is a nice interface, but only a prototype
13:45.09brlcadthe real functionality is in MGED
13:45.30tjyangunderstood, "Getting started" is the keyword ;)
13:45.31brlcadArcher only does about 25% of what MGED can do
13:45.50tjyangthat is enough for beginner like me ;)
13:46.12``Erikhehehe
13:46.46brlcadthen you should maybe make a page dedicated with screenshots and a walkthrough (e.g. where are the example files)
13:46.48tjyangBTW, who decide the direction of using docbook for future brl-cad
13:46.54``Erikisn't sure how much of what you learn in archer will actually transfer to mged
13:47.03tjyangbrl-cad doc format.
13:47.15brlcadtjyang: in what regard?
13:47.43``Erikthrows monty python on the tv and looks at some code
13:47.45tjyangI used framemaker,msword,docbook and latex before
13:47.55tjyangI think docbook is not as good as latex.
13:48.05brlcadsame as most project decisions, the folks doing the work (i.e. usually the devs) decide
13:48.09tjyangI switch from docbook to latex.
13:48.13``Erikdocbook has slightly different goals (and can generate TeX)
13:48.32``Erikyou're not gonna touch latex for printed materials, but the web materials come out... rough
13:49.14brlcadand can't even really *think* about integrating latex into applications, whereas with docbook it's pretty straightforward
13:49.18tjyangnot really , I will provide an example later,  multitasking right now.
13:49.39``Erik<-- big LaTeX fan, but has seen 'nuff from the FreeBSD docbook/jade to accept it :)
13:51.40brlcadtjyang: just about every major documentation project has moved to docbook and with good reason, it's simply easier to work with as a hub format
13:52.08brlcadnot as ideal as some of the formats that are specifically suited to certain tasks (e.g. latex->print) but overall it's a win
13:52.44``Erikheh, 488 record hits, 153 url hits, 2 subscribers... not too terrible for what it is I suppose
13:53.34``Erikponders coding something useful
13:53.38tjyangbrlcad: I switched for the reason you mentioned and in the end I decided to switch to latex.
13:54.40brlcadtjyang: understood, but that doesn't really say much about whether that was a good decision or not :)
13:54.54brlcadand what your considerations/needs were
13:55.20brlcadand what problems you actually ran into
13:55.31``Erik*shrug* both are simple text formats that can be trivially parsed, so it doesn't look like there's a "problem" here... it's not like the docs are in ms word or quark format
13:55.41``Erikcodes O.o
13:55.52brlcadwoot, code ftw
13:56.10``Erikyes, the world needs better faster stronger brainfuck compilers.
13:56.52brlcadheh
13:59.19tjyangsorry, I am still on the phone with my mom.
13:59.22tjyanglater
14:05.46``Erik10:05AM  up 178 days, 22 mins, 5 users, load averages: 0.72, 0.18, 0.07
14:06.10``Erikit may be telling that I'm accepting "bad syscall" errors from a 'hot' upgrade to keep service up
14:06.12``Erik:/
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14:15.43``Bman10:15AM  up 154 days, 15 mins, 11 users, load averages: 2.22, 2.18, 2.19
14:16.14``Erikoh yeah, pheer my den p2's uptime, stomps the almighty bz uptime :D *duck*
14:18.20CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31403 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/draw.c: make function declarations match definition wrt being static and constness. fixes build failure reported by tjyang (thanks).
14:19.10``Erikmaybe I need to update more often. Every time I update, there is a commit during my compile. If it update more often, does that mean we'll get commits more often?
14:19.58``Erikmy compile made it to libbu when that message came out, at least
14:20.39tjyanghttp://brlcad.org/wiki/FAQ#How_do_I_getting_started_with_Windows_version_of_BRL-CAD_.3F
14:20.52brlcadmebbie
14:20.54tjyangthis was the FAQ, I was hoping to see.
14:22.05``Erikif you don't like the existing tutorial pdf's, feel free to start a tutorial wiki chain
14:23.15``Erikwould call archer an experimental avenue, would NOT point new users there yet... *shrug* personal opinion
14:23.25tjyangno, I do like it. I think there should be some material for total beginner like me.
14:24.06``Erikfeel free to create new wiki pages *shrug*
14:24.07brlcadtjyang: that's the point -- you're a total beginner even with regards to what you like about it
14:24.11brlcadyou can't actually do much with it
14:24.21brlcadwhich you'll quickly find out
14:24.29brlcadthere's a reason we don't point anyone to it just yet
14:24.38brlcadit's there to encourage developer interest
14:24.39tjyangI do have a plan to use it.
14:24.54brlcadand you'll find that you can't actually "do" much with it regardless of your plans :)
14:25.05``Erikif you look at the recent commit history, the entire libged effort has been kinda part of bobs plan to turn archer from being a useless but pretty toy into something useful
14:25.05brlcadunless that doing involves coding
14:25.41tjyangI need a opensource 3D modeling software for my opensource scooter project ;)
14:25.48brlcadtjyang: the other faq item you mentioned is being worked on, maybe this helps answer your question: http://brlcad.org/~sean/BRL-CAD_Priorities.png
14:26.36brlcadstill under development is why that's not on the wiki too
14:27.03``Erikhey, burley, check me; we completely lack anything of the notion of, say, lightwaves scener? static models being moved along bezier splines for animation?
14:27.39brlcadnotes that havoc or m35 would be a much more interesting intro than "axis"
14:28.06tjyangsaw the png file, thanks brlcad.
14:28.06brlcad``Erik: no, we actually have that
14:28.18``Erikand I imagine if I were to do a 'pulling the points apart' metaball animation, I'd probably be best generating the 120 or so seperate primitives to play in succession?
14:28.21brlcadit's crusty as all hell.. stuff chris johnson worked on way back when
14:28.23``Erikuhm, the track thing?
14:28.26brlcadthe anim_* tools
14:28.40brlcadand some of the joint tools
14:29.05``Erikhum, back in, uhm, '96 or '97(?) that was one of the few things I felt good with in lightwave
14:29.29tjyanghow far is brlcad converted to docbook already ?
14:29.29``Eriklightwave 4? I took other peoples models, gave 'em paths, and pushed the button to render :D made me feel good
14:29.55brlcadwhat we have works but is a total hack, not at all robust .. but a slew of movies were made with the tools that way (what rain and others are working on converting)
14:30.35brlcadours involves a lot of tables a few anim commands and even a bit of sed/awk scripting :)
14:30.57``Erikohyeah, that reminds me
14:31.05``Erikdude, wtf, the knights and shit? wtf? hahahaha
14:31.30``Erikand the koosh ball with the eyeball, we TOTALLY need that koosh in our distro :D
14:31.46``Erikit was freaking rain out :D
14:32.10tjyangbrlcad =  sean ?
14:32.23brlcadtjyang: depends what you count .. we have a hell of a lot of docs in various formats, but the bulk of what we're counting is probably halfway there
14:32.32brlcadtjyang: yeah
14:32.41brlcada get assigned that value sometimes
14:32.50tjyanghttp://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=2082285&forum_id=362511, thank you for this answer.
14:33.18brlcad``Erik: yeah, I haven't seen the nights bit in like 10 years, don't really remember it
14:33.29brlcadand totally don't remember seeing a koosh ball
14:33.47brlcadi've not seen all the videos myself, just a handful
14:33.53``Erikstarseeker and rain pulled me across the hall to see it
14:33.57brlcadi'm looking forward to seeing what's in all of them
14:34.08``Erikrain was REALLY freaking out on the koosh ball...
14:34.18brlcadshe freaks out easily
14:34.23brlcadnoob
14:34.26``Erik"what is that thing??? it keeps showing up!"
14:34.58tjyangbrlcad: if doc->docbook is 50% done then I rest my case of doc->latex.
14:35.14brlcadtjyang: eh how so?
14:35.41brlcadthat's after just a couple days of actual effort, and we're talking about *hundreds* of pages of existing documentation
14:35.52tjyangbrlcad: looks like decision has been to adopt docbook which is my 2nd perference.
14:35.53``Eriktjyang: LaTeX has been in the discussion all along... many of us STILL insist on sending our pubs down the pipe as LaTeX and fighting the "it's not word" back-push
14:36.01brlcadit would take just as long to convert these docs to latex
14:36.10``Eriktrust me, it's not like we just don't know about LaTeX
14:36.42brlcadyeah, some of our docs are (still) in latex
14:36.43tjyanggreat to know.
14:37.16brlcadwe probably have well over a thousand pages of actual/useful documentation material
14:37.34``Erikheh, and millions of useless ones? ;D
14:38.12brlcadin various formats from word to latex to docbook to only-available-in-printed-form-now that have accumulated over the years
14:38.18tjyangmercurial book is a good example of using latex.
14:38.24brlcadah, and good ol troff
14:38.43``Erikyes, I've been tossed some very classic roff files for review :/
14:39.06``Erikrich s is good at what he does, but he is sure stuck in his own time O.o
14:39.38tjyangI like to join brl-cad latex doc group, if there is a such group.
14:40.25tjyangdocbook is unecessary diversion effort of tex/latex.
14:41.19``Erikthe color, serifs, images and layout of the priorities image make it feel very archaic, like, 1900's era stuff
14:41.52tjyanggoogle.com is down ?
14:42.09``Erikand it took a while for me to realize that the summary was in the middle and channeled to the details, mebbe I'm just special
14:42.29brlcadtjyang: you still haven't quantified what's actually technically "wrong" about docbook other than you don't like it and/or find it unnecessary
14:43.03brlcadyou're welcome to work on latex docs, maybe through sheer volume of contributions you can make something happen there
14:43.25brlcadbut as for a project direction on the docs, I'm still going to keep going down the docbook path for many reasons
14:43.44tjyangok, what is your pro reason for docbook ?
14:43.45brlcadyou'd have to do some serious convincing and contributing to derail that
14:44.15brlcadno no, you're not going to bait on points you can nit pick when you still haven't pointed out what you find negative about it
14:44.42``Eriknotes that docbook and latex are awefully close to eachother than the progress right now towards docbook is 98% towards latex...
14:44.52brlcador even more, what makes latex better for *all* of the necessary requirements
14:45.12brlcadyeah, it's not like we're moving away from docbook
14:45.17brlcads/docbook/latex/
14:45.18brlcadheh
14:45.32``Erikwe're off in middle of the ocean and we have two lighthouses close to each other... we on the docbook one right now *shrug* :)
14:46.01``ErikknowwhatImean,verne?
14:46.14brlcadyeah, you mean we're aimed at the docbook one, but they're right next door to each other
14:46.25brlcadwe just happen to be in the middle of the ocean a couple miles away at this point :)
14:46.26tjyanghttp://brlcad.org/wiki/FAQ#Why_BRL-CAD_chose_docbook_over_latex_.3F
14:46.44tjyanglets put down some pros/cons of each solutions.
14:47.02``Erik*sigh*
14:47.08brlcadtjyang: that's not the appropriate place ot have a pro/con debate/discussion
14:47.21brlcadand it'd seriously be a waste of time frankly
14:48.21``Erikif docbook has failings that LaTeX addresses, why not put your effort into improving the docbook->LaTeX converter?
14:49.46brlcadif you want to work on latex docs, go for it, not going to stop you -- just not going to stop other efforts happening for docbook
14:49.56tjyangI think the bottom line is the doers go to pick the tool.
14:50.50``Erikyes
14:50.53``Erikthat is the bottom line
14:50.57``Erikthe doers picked docbook
14:50.57``Eriksorry
14:50.58``Erik:)
14:51.01tjyangagree ;)
14:51.36tjyangnp, remember docobok is 2nd perference. if you pick msword then I will scream ;)
14:52.20brlcadtjyang: what (if anything) are you actually asking? :)
14:52.33``Erikoh, you're talking to a fistful of unix geeks here, I mean, we buy macs cuz it's unix that "can do" office, but we still use keynote instead of powerpoint for slides, ...
14:53.20brlcadwhy do you think it took nearly 5 years to get the second release of brl-cad for windows out ...
14:53.35brlcadhm, three years I suppose
14:53.39tjyangkeynote is not a common tool.
14:54.27brlcadyou're missing the point
14:54.28brlcadtwas an example dude
14:54.28tjyanguse beam in latex ;)
14:54.28tjyangbeams
14:54.28``Erikhopes that with a couple open source windows developers, windows releases will happen more often
14:54.28``ErikI think I've used beams before
14:54.32tjyangcommens about beams ?
14:54.34tjyangcomments
14:54.47``ErikI've also written a portable javascript thingymajigger so I could use html for my display info and push the space bar for 'next slide', with the right and left arrow doing what's right
14:55.10``Erikanyways, we avoid microsoftian proprietary lockin like the plague.
14:55.51tjyangok, I am going to stop time wasting chat(wasting your time).
14:56.02louipchaha I did html slides too
14:56.14tjyangosx 10.5.3 is building ;)
14:56.25tjyangthanks for the quick fix, sean.
14:56.28``Erikdiscussion is good, submitting patches is better :)
14:56.50brlcadplease, if beam is what I remember, it totally sucked on many levels :)
14:57.12tjyangstand correct, I sould be more serious about brl-cad.
14:57.20tjyangstand corrected.
14:58.10brlcadcode > doc > chat ;)
14:58.22``Eriknods solemnly
14:58.43``Erikunless it's my code, I produce some... special... code... :D
15:02.28tjyangimac:brlcad tj_yang$ find . -type f -name *.tex
15:02.28tjyang./doc/html/manuals/mged/ged.tex
15:02.28tjyangimac:brlcad tj_yang$
15:02.41tjyangonly one tex file found in source tree.
15:03.05``Erikvery little documentation is in the tree
15:03.15``Erikthat's part of the docbook effort, to move more into it
15:03.23tjyangwhat are docbook extension used in source tree.
15:03.39tjyangdocbook extension file name. docbook ?
15:03.59``ErikI'd assume something like xml? starseeker would be the big doer on that, I think
15:04.17tjyangyeap, thanks, it is .xml
15:04.20``Erikwrites .c, not .xml
15:05.00tjyangBRL-CAD Release 7.12.5, Build 20080615
15:05.00tjyangElapsed compilation time:
15:05.00tjyang20 minutes, 57 seconds
15:05.00tjyangElapsed time since configuration:
15:05.00tjyang22 minutes, 20 seconds
15:05.21tjyangthanks for the fix.
15:06.11``Erikno need to paste, brlcad wants to have BRL-CAD's babies, he'll do what's necessary when necessary :)
15:06.58``ErikI think it's a good thing to have, so I push portability and internal correctness, and I don't mind the paycheck :D
15:07.11``ErikI'm ALMOST good enough to model a box :D
15:07.48tjyanghow do I find out if my grapich card is used by win32 brl-cad ?
15:08.16``Erikthinks it would be awesome to model his house and be able to place furniture and render, or model his truck and see where the big drag points are
15:08.17tjyangmy son upgrade the card to play game.
15:08.44``Erikuhm, do you mean the 3d components of your graphics card? cuz, uh, if it comes up on the screen, your graphics card was involved in some way or another
15:09.18``Erikwe have an opengl mode, but it's all GL_LINE stuff, so using opengl will actually slow you down vs X or win32
15:09.43``Erikit's in the big todo list to get 'shaded displays' up, that'd be where a 3d card becomes useful
15:10.29tjyangI don't feel  the rendering is fast in brl-cad vs my Son's game.
15:10.58``Erikno, the purpose is very different. BRL-CAD is looking to be accurate and deep. The game is looking to be fast and pretty.
15:11.50tjyang(Erik) speaking of paycheck, how is brl-cad.com doing ? is everybody there got fed properly ?
15:11.53``Erikin BRL-CAD, we care about sub-millimeter accuracy and deep ray penetration at several KM out... it's scientific software, not "pretty" :)
15:12.12tjyangok, no problem.
15:12.24tjyangthis is what I am looking for.
15:12.47``Erikuhm, I get my paycheck from http://www.arl.army.mil/slad, brlcad gets his (indirectly) from the same place, dunno what a brl-cad.com is O.o
15:13.02tjyangI did have educations both  C.S. and building ship.
15:13.03``Erikohhhh, a cname for survice
15:13.38louipcopengl is faster than X for me
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15:14.26``Erikok, BRL-CAD was designed and implemented more for physics simulation and multispectral analysis than fast pretty pictures
15:14.28tjyangI am thinking of using using brl-cad as the modeling  tool a opensource scooter project.
15:14.56``Erikthat'd be awesome, clock used BRL-CAD quite a bit in his 'ronja' project, which is effin' awesome
15:14.59tjyangphysics simulation  ?  that sounds cool.
15:15.06``Erikhttp://ronja.twibright.com/
15:15.33``Erikwell, it seems that we have big metal boxes, and some people want to make holes in them... and other folk have big metal boxes that WE want to mkae holes in...
15:16.24``ErikI get paid because some people want to use BRL-CAD to figure out what happens when people try to make holes in metal boxes *shrug*
15:17.06``Erikronja is definitely a project that'll let a feller sleep better at night
15:17.07``ErikO.o
15:18.00``Erik(we're more CAE than CAD)
15:18.10tjyangI want to use brlcad to build a three wheel scooter like BugE. http://www.bugev.net/
15:18.47tjyangam I picking the right tool ?
15:18.47brlcadcocks his head at the image of having BRL-CAD's babies
15:18.55brlcadow
15:18.57``Erikthat'd be neat, how exactly will BRL-CAD aid you in that?
15:19.08louipctjyang: that's sweet
15:19.13tjyanglike m35
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15:19.34``Erikthe current NURBS work would really benefit that kinda project, I think
15:19.47tjyangit brlcad can model m35 truck then it can model a bugE alike
15:19.50``Erikbut, um, we don't do blueprints
15:19.58``Erikyt
15:19.59``Erikyet
15:20.08tjyangI can wait
15:20.27tjyangit is hobby project .
15:20.32``Erikit may take more than waiting, you might have to do :)
15:21.00brlcadbrlcad.com (i.e. SURVICE's support service) does their own thing, gets some attention
15:21.05``Erikthe people paying for BRL-CAD development are analysis, not design... blueprints are irrelevant to them, so *shrug*
15:21.06brlcadi'm sure not as much as they'd like
15:22.30tjyangErik, so I am picking the wrong tool ?
15:22.39brlcadtjyang: I'd really suggest going through the Vol II tutorials in order to get a feel for how you model
15:22.40``Eriknow if you lay down code to do blueprints, you'd be a hero to many... most of the developers have someone saying to pay attention to other stuff and holding the paycheck
15:22.48``Erikit depends on what exactly you want out of it
15:23.39``Erikif you want to verify assembly, visualize subassemblies, computer actual weights and stuff... BRL-CAD is great... if you want to hit a button and get a blueprint to take to the machine shop? no. :(
15:24.11tjyangI see, that whaty pro/E is doing, correct ?
15:24.18brlcadas far as open source CAD goes, we're (imho) as good as it gets but still with a long ways to go
15:24.40``Erikpro/E and unigraphics are very into CAM stuff
15:24.46``Erikwe're more CAE
15:24.50brlcadpro/e, unigraphics/nx, catia, solidworks, ..
15:25.08brlcadautocad is king of blueprints
15:25.26tjyangI really don't have a big wallet to spend on those CAE/CAM commerical tool
15:25.30``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/w/images/4/44/Industry_Diagram.pdf
15:25.49``Erikthat pdf has a *LOT* of information in it, brlcad spent a lot of effort getting it just right
15:25.52tjyangyeah, I saw that pdf file.
15:26.15``Erikmight take a little look at http://gcam.js.cx/index.php/Main_Page if CAM is what you're looking for
15:26.16tjyangvery nice pdf file.
15:26.21brlcadtjyang: the amount of manpower effort that has to go into a functionally useful CAD system is truely massive and they know it and they charge accordingly
15:26.34brlcadabout a 6 billion dollar commercial market last year
15:27.09louipctjyang: looks like you won't be able to see anything on the road ahead if you're behind other cars :P
15:27.22brlcadwe've got almost 25 years of non-stop development, nearly 500 man-years of effort, and we still mostly focus on CAE aspects and could easily double that and still not be at the commercial systems level in some regards
15:27.59``Erikwas it uni that you talked to with 100 dedicated developers?
15:28.21tjyanglouipc: that is oppertunity that BugE 2/3 can fix ;)
15:28.48brlcadyeah, uni
15:29.01brlcadtalked to catia dev at solid modeling ...
15:29.10brlcadthey have about 1000 *devs* :)
15:29.14louipcouch
15:30.00tjyangit is not I don't appreicate the value of commerical cad/cam tool, it is the problem I can't afford it. unless I ask my kids stop there college education.
15:30.02brlcaddistributed all over the place, lots of competeting projects
15:31.14``Erikheh, ain't nothin' worth disadvantaging your kids, dude
15:31.20brlcadtjyang: i'm not promoting them or saying go with them -- my answer is help make brl-cad better, help make it do what it needs to do to be the absolute best ;)
15:31.44``Erikwe're open source and solid, if you run into a serious stumbling block, we're here to talk to... if you can fix it, we love patches
15:31.54brlcadyeah, because you'd not only have to take away they're college, you'd have to start pimping them out for the annual maintenance and upgrade costs ;)
15:32.32``Erikeven taking away college, seems to me that once you have a kid, your focus changes from doing for yourself to making their life better *shrug*
15:32.39``Erikor SHOULD
15:33.28tjyangI still want to allocate some resources for  my personal hobbies  ;)
15:33.31brlcadmeh, they can fend for themselves, good learning experiences ;)
15:33.56``Erikheh, it's a balance :D but if push comes to shove, I think the kids take precidence
15:34.23tjyangbe back, let me test the mac version of brlcad.
15:34.24brlcadstopped being a negative time/money sink as soon as he could be put to work (early teens)
15:34.53``Erikmy parents gave up a lot for me, but I wasn't spoiled. i support 'em when they need it, ... I'm boggled at how the bitch spoils her brats at times *shrug*
15:36.11``Erik(of course, I grew up in a single income family with my dad being enlisted in the navy, not exactly wealthy... buying a 'puter was a huge hobby expense that came hard to my dad, but I got my fingers on a keyboard in '83, which affected where I am now *shrug*)
15:37.32``Erikpancake tends to buy her kids video games and dolls... last xmas, I bought her boy an electronic experimentor kit and her daughter a projection lamp tracing table thing O.o
15:38.15louipcdrafting table ;)
15:38.30``Erikalmost, but cheap plastic and with disney images to project :D
15:38.49``Erikrachel is "artsy"... I don't grok it, my arts are either aural or mathematical
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15:40.08brlcadI think I got joshua one of those for xmas
15:40.10``Erikhttp://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q947SG?smid=A1OLFXZISZ8WL8&tag=nextag-toys-20&linkCode=asn
15:40.14brlcadpretty nifty
15:40.52brlcadheh, yeah .. cept the 'boy' version of that apparently, "Cars" theme instead of princess
15:40.59``Erikheh, you HAVE to buy josh cool shit, you're his godfather :D I'm just off in left field, not even invited to hang out :D
15:41.20``Erikmet up with jason and nettie a week or two ago for lunch, josh is getting big!
15:41.54``Erikand was the first time I'd seen their daughter
15:42.23brlcadaspires to be that affluent godfather that joshua knows he can go to for toys whenever he wants (or whenever mom n dad are being stubborn)
15:42.32``Erikhah
15:42.48``Erikthe faux grandfather roll? :>
15:43.05brlcadlike when they were trying to ween him off candy
15:43.13brlcadI show up with chocolate bars
15:43.13``Erikbwahahahaha
15:43.33``ErikI have to say, josh seems awfully well behaved, it's boggling
15:43.58``Erikhe got fitty with the crayons, jason told him to settle downa nd be nice and ... he... did... *boggle*
15:44.10brlcad:)
15:44.50``Erikand the girl (I forgot her name) seems to be the polar opposite
15:45.08``Erikshe just stays quiet and happy
15:45.12``Erikno fits
15:45.56``Erikmakes me jealous :) they have something awesome going on
15:47.06``Erik(and nettie has an awesome ability to bounce back, zomfg, jason is all sorts of lucky there *cough* *duck*)
15:47.11``Erikso, code time :D
15:49.51``Erikis happy that it is cool today, can actually run "make" without fear :/
16:00.58punkrockgirl:/
16:05.01brlcadpunkrockgirl: g'morning :)
16:06.24brlcad``Erik: mira, yeah.. impressively "calm"
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16:23.22CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31404 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/draw.c: reorder the functions so that forward declarations are not needed for any except the (recursive) callbacks
16:24.36CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31405 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (8 files): ws
16:27.53``Erikyeah, that sounds right, was boggling at lunch (grumpies)
16:28.42``Erikpunker says good morning, she's lazy and laying back in bed
16:51.40brlcadmm.. food
17:25.14andrecastelosorry guys for being away for so much time
17:53.22CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31406 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewarea.c:
17:53.22CIA-22BRL-CAD: Regarding the center point algorithm - fixed a bug that prevented the head of a
17:53.22CIA-22BRL-CAD: point list from receiving data and a crude hack was being used to prevent loss
17:53.22CIA-22BRL-CAD: of precision. area_center() had a for statement that didn't start with the head,
17:53.23CIA-22BRL-CAD: now it has been improved and now uses BU_LIST_FOR().
18:00.44CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31407 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: Moved mafm and homovulgaris (Manuel Fernandez and Dawn Thomas, respectively) from the Special Thanks section to the Code Contribution section, as requested by Dawn Thomas.
18:21.03brlcadhowdy andrecastelo !
18:21.09brlcadhappy weekend to you
18:21.38andrecastelohowdy brlcad
18:21.51brlcadandrecastelo: normally requests to get "moved up" by themselves aren't a valid reason :)
18:22.07brlcadthough in this case all four of you should be moved up by this point
18:22.55andrecastelosorry about it S:
18:23.03andrecasteloi thought it was ok to edit it
18:23.21brlcadno, it's completely fine
18:23.31brlcadi'm just saying the commit "reason" isn't the reason
18:23.39brlcadat least that shouldn't be the reason
18:24.15brlcadthe reason is that you guys are committing code :)
18:25.21andrecasteloah ok ok :)
18:25.49andrecasteloi've added a few files that weren't added to the msvc 9 build
18:25.58andrecastelojust building now to see if i didn't forget anything
18:25.59brlcadand by the end of summer, should be at dev status, particularly if you all keep it up
18:26.21andrecasteloawesome :D
18:26.26andrecastelohehehe
18:26.37brlcadas dev status is more an indicator of "time" (though there is a magnitude of effort factor too)
18:28.30CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31408 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: denote all four gsocers as such
20:10.34starseekerchuckles to see the docbook debate flare up again
20:11.30starseekerI'm using .xml for the moment, but that's not set in stone
20:12.35starseekeris still a LaTeX fan, but appreciates docbook more now that he can get pdf files out of it and appreciates the magnitude of LaTeX conversion for essentially nil gain
20:13.20brlcadhe left :)
20:13.27starseekerbah
20:13.33starseekerthat's no fun ;-)
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23:29.16CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31409 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc9/ (brlcad/brlcad.sln libged/libged.vcproj): Updated the MSVC 9 build configuration. Added files from libged that weren't added before. Added rtmlt back into the configuration.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080616

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080616

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02:39.30brlcadwee
03:14.55andrecasteloweeee
03:14.57andrecastelo:D
03:15.19andrecastelohey brlcad , what should i do about functions used both in view.c and viewmlt.c ?
03:15.55andrecastelofor example, i'm going to use scanlines, so free_scanlines() is a nice function to have.. external header?
03:27.47brlcadwhat do you mean used in both?  viewmlt is a separate version of view
03:28.06brlcadutility funcs that view happens to use?
03:28.12brlcador actual callbacks?
03:28.52andrecasteloutility functions that will be useful in viewmlt, as the view_pixel function will be pretty similar
03:30.23brlcadokay, well for that particular example .. I'd move the scanline struct and the free_scanlines into their own scanline.h/scanline.c files, and reuse
03:30.51brlcadand make a pairing alloc_scanlines() to match the free (presently is inline in view_init2 i think)
03:31.11brlcadother funcs, depends what they do :)
04:23.15starseekerraises eyebrows at Intel's demo of raytraced quake...
04:41.25andrecastelook, i'm going to add scanline.c and .h
04:41.46andrecastelobut here in the makefile, there is a line 'EXTRA_PROGRAMS = rtmlt'
04:41.56andrecastelortmlt isn't included in the build ?
04:43.55andrecastelook, checked the log
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05:23.43CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31410 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs):
05:23.43CIA-22BRL-CAD: Added files scanline.c and scanline.h, to contain functions and definitions of
05:23.43CIA-22BRL-CAD: scanline, that are shared by view.c and viewmlt.c. Updated msvc9 build files and
05:23.43CIA-22BRL-CAD: the Makefile.am. Moved and modified free_scanlines() function to work with
05:23.43CIA-22BRL-CAD: parameters (int height and struct scanline* scanline). Updated view_pixel()
05:23.45CIA-22BRL-CAD: function in viewmlt.c and made some other minor changes in the file.
05:36.10CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31411 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/ (scanline.c scanline.h view.c viewmlt.c): Added alloc_scanlines(int, struct scanline*) function and made appropriate changes in view.c and viewmlt.c.
05:38.22CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31412 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/view.c: Removed commented code (that is now alloc_scanlines() ).
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09:17.28CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31413 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/Makefile.am: libremrt needs stuff moved to scanline. Remove the EXTRA_PROGRAMS thing
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10:35.23CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31414 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/CMakeLists.txt:
10:35.23CIA-22BRL-CAD: include new constraint object import export functionality in CMake build
10:35.23CIA-22BRL-CAD: we need to include libpc too if any function from this library will be used here
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11:00.22mafmhai
11:04.53andrecastelohai mafm
11:06.04``Erik<PROTECTED>
11:17.44andrecastelohey ``Erik good morning :D
11:21.31brlcadhowdy folks
11:23.47``Erikwell, it's A morning, that's for sure :)
11:24.30mafmA morning?
11:24.34``Erikandre: you might have to tweak the msvc proj file to include scanline.c in libremrt (in src/rt)
11:24.57``ErikI ran into missing symbol issues in src/remrt
11:26.06``Erikhalf wonders if some of those functions might be better held in librt
11:28.57brlcadandrecastelo: changes look good, one thing though -- you can use "make distcheck" to do a sanity check when adding new files (needs header)
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11:30.18``Erikheh, doh, I missed that, too :)
11:30.27andrecastelohmm ok ok
11:32.11andrecastelolibremrt ?
11:32.40andrecasteloor librt ?
11:35.00``Eriklibremrt in src/rt/
11:35.10``Erikused by src/remrt/
11:36.30``Erikpatched it earlier (couple hours ago)
11:37.21andrecasteloah so it's a new lib?
11:37.59andrecasteloo.O
11:38.01``Erikuhm, not... new... it's been in src/rt/ as a noinst for quite a while, src/remrt uses it for a lot of rt guts...
11:38.40andrecastelook, i'll setup a new project in msvc
11:38.53``Erikbasically rt as a library, so remrt can re-use that code (stuff that might be better in librt *cough*)
11:39.04``Erikyou don't build src/remrt/ in msvc?
11:39.23andrecastelolet me see
11:50.37andrecasteloapparently not o.O
11:54.12andrecastelothis is weird
11:54.34``Erik?
11:55.18``Erikhuzzah for bad system calls in ld
12:00.34andrecasteloremrt is described in src/rt/makefile.am, right ?
12:00.39andrecastelolooks
12:01.12``Eriklibremrt is in src/rt/Makefile.am, remrt is in src/remrt/Makefile.am
12:01.33``Erikremrt uses libremrt to crib rt functionality
12:04.25``Erikstraps some shoes on and drives to "that place", bbiab
12:08.16andrecastelo``Erik: here's a screenshot of brlcad/brlcadinstall/lib http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2202/librertnotherewe6.jpg
12:44.36brlcadmafm: you received my memo?
12:46.43brlcadit was basically "check out wmii", there may even be code that you could use (it's certainly small enough) and it has many of the same usability traits as IOE
12:57.16mafmmemo?
12:57.21mafmah, IRC one
13:02.04mafmlol
13:02.04mafmthe p9 window manager
13:12.29``Erikandré, libremrt is a compile time convenience library, it is not intended to be installed.
13:14.19mafmbrlcad: did you use wmii?
13:17.00brlcadmafm: i've used it before (long time ago)
13:18.21brlcadI'm just not at a linux desktop frequently these days it seems, one of the other devs uses it fairly regularly
13:18.32andrecastelo``Erik: i'm having trouble setting it up
13:18.40brlcad(the ioe guy)
13:19.02andrecasteloi've created a new project for libremrt, exports a .dll.. but it's having some problem compiling
13:19.29brlcadyou shouldn't need a libremrt
13:19.41brlcadthat's just the easy way to put it together in automake
13:19.50mafmwhich is the interesting part in our perspective? the general layout? the taskbar at the bottom? the tiling of windows?
13:20.20brlcadmafm: "yes"
13:20.26andrecastelothe thing is that remrt isn't there as a vcproj file either
13:20.48CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31415 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/librt/librt.vcproj: Added pc_constraint.c to build.
13:21.33brlcadit has many of the same usability conventions, tiled windows, tabbed contexts, quasi-shaded windows, full keyboard navigation, task/info bar, etc
13:22.22``Erikum, if remrt is put in, it should have, uhm, all the sources used by libremrt included... like, uh, ...\src\rt\view.c ...\src\rt\shotline.c ... etc
13:22.39andrecastelohm ok
13:22.49``Eriklooks at the mail list
13:23.14``Eriktjyang is the one who was arguing for LaTeX instead of docbook?
13:24.01CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31416 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc9/librt/librt.vcproj: Added pc_constraint.c to librt.
13:24.19andrecastelo``Erik: yup
13:24.37mafmI see
13:24.44``Erikthinks someone is looking for a large helping of "patches accepted"
13:24.52mafmI'll try to check it out, but I'm fighting with cmake at the moment :)
13:24.55``Erikor, welcome, rather
13:26.46mafmlatex? he must be a mad physicist
13:31.28``Erik"Can god code something so unusable even he can't use it? No, but I can and so can you: http://www.microsoft.com/careers"
13:32.32andrecastelolol
13:33.12andrecastelo"We offer opportunities around the world to make an impact with the next generation of technology we're building today."
13:33.16andrecastelos/building/copying
13:37.19mafms/copying/borking
13:42.15starseekerLaTeX does offer easier customization on the output side, but that's probably not worth the tradeoff
13:42.42starseekeris still early on the Docbook learning curve, in some respects
13:42.55``Erik<3 LaTeX for print, and it's web thing isn't too terrible, but has seen docbook work damn well, too *shrug*
13:43.18starseekeris rather surprised by the apparent lack of "here's how to write a docbook file and get a pdf" step by step
13:45.38mafmwell, certainly docbook is more writer-friendly :D
13:45.44``Erikhas seen jade->pdf shtuff
13:45.51mafmfor non-english texts especially
13:46.58starseeker``Erik:  Occasionally, but not like I would expect - Docbook's "get up and go" threshold is fairly high as compared to LaTeX's
13:47.24starseekerreflects that it does help that ALL of the TeX tools are usually crammed into one huge installation
13:47.54``Erikpheer the teTeX
13:48.05``Erikwhich I guess is deprecated now? heh
13:48.11starseeker:-)
13:48.19starseekerpheer the TeXlive
13:48.41``Eriklets his package management system worry about all that for him, is old and lazy
13:49.09starseekerI think to do DocLive you would have to bundle java, xml tools, fop, the stylesheets, and lord knows what else
13:49.14starseekerdoes too
13:49.44starseekerTo date, the only successfully running toolchain for docbook that I have working is on my Gentoo box (yay portage!)
13:51.01starseekermeh - firebird seems to be using ant
13:53.40starseekerdoesn't want to use ant - I'll concede java as a necessity for fop, but arrgh...
13:53.57starseekeralright, what are they up to here...
13:54.08CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31417 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/rt/rt.vcproj: Added scanline.c to build.
14:03.03mafmabout the rt^3 module... should I consider g3d a separate project?
14:03.32mafmI mean so that you can build g3d but not other utilities/whatever inside there
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14:37.35starseekerbrlcad:  do we want to keep all docbook documentation build results (html, pdf, etc.) in the share directory or should we make a /usr/local/doc/brlcad/7.12.4 type layout?
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15:56.19louipcstarseeker: I'd say leave them in the same place as the .xml after make, then put them into brlcad/doc or brlcad/share/doc on `make install`
15:58.45louipcstarseeker: err I wasn't paying attention. Yeah keep them under the brlcad root please :D
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16:44.25homovulgarishi all :)
16:44.47louipchi
16:44.55pacman87hello
16:45.33homovulgarishi pacman how is it going ? :)
16:45.54homovulgarishi louipc
16:46.05louipcwhat's up yo
16:46.15pacman87pretty good.  putting the finishing touches on hyp, then optimizing everything
16:46.33homovulgarishave been studying gecode structure for sometime.. they are a generic constraint solver
16:46.54homovulgarisbut their architecture is good.. was thinking could use something for geometric constraint solver..
16:47.44homovulgarisIdeally though i think in effect any constraint solver is in the end generic.. all csps- constraint satisfaction problems can be translated from one "language" to the other
16:48.07homovulgarispacman87: how are the plans on sweep going ?
16:48.35pacman87i've kinda put them on hold while finishing hyp
16:48.43pacman87you have any ideas/suggestions?
16:48.48homovulgarishow exactly would u be storing the dependence between the existing geometry and the new one ( sweep ) ?
16:49.23pacman87i'm planning on using the sketch to store the outline, and i need to find a way to store the path
16:49.35homovulgarisi mean in the .g .. would it be like a name reference to the sketch object , inside the sweep object repersentation..
16:49.56pacman87i need to see how 'extrude' does it
16:50.14pacman87becasue that's just a sweep in a straight line
16:50.24homovulgarisindeed :)
16:50.46louipcyou can extrude a sketch?
16:51.14pacman87louipc: what else would you do with a sketch?
16:52.45louipcsketch in 2d I suppose
16:52.53pacman87louipc: yes
16:53.37louipcbut that's cool
16:54.01homovulgarisbrlcad: i checked out boost interval library.. not very confident it is useful in csp solving .. though still keeping it as an option now..basically the type of intervals i need are for example if x belong to (3,4) and (4,5) the effective domain should be shown as (3,5) or in a sense (3,4) + (4,5) = (3,5) set union basically .. whereas interval arithmetic is basically (3,4) + (4,5) =(7,9) basically the domain of x+y if x and y belong to the respect
16:54.01homovulgarisive ranges
16:54.10homovulgarisoops :)
16:54.38homovulgarispacman87: what are sketches themselves made of ?
16:55.01homovulgarishmm i should read mk_sketch
16:55.08homovulgarisis there one ?
16:55.13pacman87not sure
16:55.26pacman87src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch.c
17:02.14homovulgarishmm.. splines
17:02.14homovulgarisgecode.org for the constraints thingy i mentioned
17:03.06homovulgarisbrlcad: so basically i am writing the interval class myself whose list<> makes the domain
17:05.42homovulgarispacman: sketches dont have to be closed right?
17:06.02homovulgarispacman87: and u intend the sweep path to be a 3d curve right ?
17:06.23pacman87i dont think you can sweep an open sketch
17:06.31pacman87and sweep path will be 3d
17:06.57louipcI guess it depends on how you sweep it eh?
17:07.18homovulgarisi mean we can sweep an open sketch right ?
17:07.41pacman87how would you get a 3d solid from sweeping an open sketch?
17:07.46louipcif you're just sweeping along one axis it could be open
17:07.55homovulgarisand regarding 3d i mean ofcourse minimally it would be a 2d curve and maximally 3d :)
17:07.59louipclike turning on a lathe
17:08.07homovulgarishmmm..
17:08.30homovulgaristhats revolve right ?
17:09.01pacman87if you sweep an open sketch, you end up with a surface, not a solid, right?
17:09.13homovulgarisyeah
17:10.43pacman87a closed sketch is already a surface, so sweeping that gives you the soldi
17:10.46pacman87solid
17:12.03andrecastelo``Erik: http://rafb.net/p/G6YzD486.html :O
17:13.58homovulgarisyikes.. this iterator thingy is getting on my nerves i better get back to kicking some c++ butt
17:13.58homovulgarisdefining ur own containers is so much like writing a manual :(
17:14.02homovulgaristrue
17:14.14homovulgarispacman87: have u seen this page ? http://www.opencascade.org/showroom/shapefactory/#
17:15.49homovulgarisandrecastelo: huh :O no time.h ??? 0.o
17:16.19andrecasteloapparently no! hehehe
17:16.23``Erikneato
17:16.35``Eriknetdb.h may be handled by winsock.h on windows, I d'no
17:18.45andrecastelo``Erik: its weird though, that a module such as remrt wasn't present in the solution file
17:18.50andrecastelomsvc 9 solution file*
17:27.22CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31418 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/hyp/hyp.c: implement curve() for hyp, hyp is now fully functional
17:27.44pacman87optimizations, here i come!
17:29.09``Erik*shrug* the msvc8 stuff was not ALL of BRL-CAD, bob's still working on making more build on win32
17:29.26``Erikand remrt/rtsrv should probably be modified to use libpkg instead of direct sockets
17:47.34andrecasteloah ok ok
17:47.50andrecasteloshould i commit the changes?
17:54.31brlcadstarseeker: I believe docs are covered by the --data-dir setting, so somewhere under there
17:54.55brlcad(which is what the Makefile.am's in doc/ already do iirc
18:07.26brlcadhomovulgaris: I realize that it wasn't exactly what you needed, but you can get that different range through different operators .. but more a thought of what structures you could leverage
18:07.38brlcadinstead of growing everything from scratch, which will be tough
18:07.46brlcad(but also viable solution)
18:10.39brlcadpacman87: I believe extrudes just use a vector, you'l probably want to use spline paths for sweeping (maybe struct curve's)
18:11.50pacman87brlcad: i was referring more to how the sketch is stored for the extrude
18:12.13brlcadit's "not"
18:12.22brlcadsketches are independent objects
18:12.27brlcadextrudes refer to them by name
18:13.04pacman87right, that's what i'm planning for rev/sweep, too
18:13.18brlcadsounds like a good plan
18:13.55pacman87is there a standard set of benchmarks to test my primitive's performance?
18:14.50brlcadandrecastelo: are you creating a new project for remrt?
18:15.18brlcadpacman87: not per-primitive
18:15.34brlcadthere are benchmarks that quantify performance for regression purposes
18:15.43andrecastelobrlcad: yes, created and added the sources of libremrt
18:15.44brlcadand testing/optimization, etc
18:16.31brlcadandrecastelo: ah, okay -- those header woes are build system issues -- the sys/time.h header should be wrapped in HAVE_SYS_TIME_H, the netdb.h is probably a missing preprocessor search path
18:17.33brlcadsweeping a non-closed sketch would be invalid -- we don't deal with zero-thickness surfaces
18:30.45louipcah right you might want a hollow object
18:34.18andrecastelobrlcad: i have a class right now, i'll work on it when i get back :D
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18:43.16CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31419 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (qray.c setup.c): Temporarily disable qray while transitioning to libged.
19:10.20brlcadpacman87: there are a few remaining polish points for hyp to be "done", if you're interested
19:10.30pacman87brlcad: sure
19:10.56brlcadnothing critical, you're more than welcome to "move on" too, I can certainly implement them
19:11.43pacman87well, i ran into a bug somewhere trying to ev a combination
19:13.58pacman87nmg_region_v_unique():  2 verts are the same, within tolerance
19:17.50brlcadthe ones I noticed are the 'make' comamnd (libged/make.c), 'mirror' (librt/mirror.c), solid edit menu options (mged/edsol.c), and the 'ted' command (mged/tedit.c)
19:18.05brlcadall are pretty easy
19:18.50brlcadinteresting about unique vertices ..
19:27.14pacman87and i'm getting a segfault when raytracing at view.c:1474
19:27.28pacman87for all rt's, not just hyp
19:38.29CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31420 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CMakeLists.txt cmake/ cmake/UsePkgConfig.cmake): Preliminary support for CMake, not working yet
19:53.03andrecasteloso the professor couldn't go today :S
19:59.56mafmI feel your sorrow andrecastelo
20:02.58mafmw00t
20:02.59mafmcmake is starting to work :)
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20:08.17prasad_applied for graduation :o
20:08.40CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31421 10/brlcad/trunk/src/remrt/rtsrv.c: Wrapped sys/time.h with HAVE_SYS_TIME_H macro.
20:12.09CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31422 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc9/ (Makefile.am brlcad/brlcad.sln remrt/ remrt/remrt.vcproj): Created remrt project file, with files in src/remrt and the files that belong to libremrt, in src/rt/, and added the .vcproj to the MSVC 9 build.
20:15.59mafmI go now, bye
20:16.07brlcadcya mafm
20:16.11brlcadany progress? :)
20:16.19mafmit compiles in cmake
20:16.27brlcadcool
20:16.36brlcadbuilding just the g3d dir sources?
20:16.39mafmyes
20:16.47brlcadokay
20:16.48mafmI asked about that before, let me find
20:17.10brlcadshould you consider it a separate project? no
20:17.20mafm<mafm> about the rt^3 module... should I consider g3d a separate project?
20:17.25mafm<mafm> I mean so that you can build g3d but not other utilities/whatever inside there
20:17.27brlcadit *is* the project
20:17.46brlcadthe other dirs/folders are very closely related
20:17.59brlcadthe "rt^3" name is just misleading
20:18.02mafmso basically all the rt^3 "module" is for g3d?
20:21.53mafmwell, be back tomorrow anyway :)
20:21.56mafmcheers
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21:06.48pacman87andrecastelo: i think your changes to view.c broke rt
21:07.44andrecastelopacman87: hmm, what's happening? it isn't compiling ?
21:07.59pacman87no, it compiles
21:08.03pacman87but rt fails
21:08.31andrecasteloseg fault?
21:08.34pacman87yeah
21:12.12andrecastelohm, did you try reverting ?
21:12.44pacman87yeah, it works for rev 31409
21:15.01andrecastelook, i'll take a look
21:31.35andrecastelook, fixed
21:31.44andrecastelojust reviewing and will commit
21:33.53CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31423 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/ (scanline.c scanline.h view.c): Fixed a bug in rt that had to do with scanlines. The memory allocation function now returns a pointer. Checks to see if scanline already exists were added.
21:36.01CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31424 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c: Fixed scanline functions and added checks in memory allocation. Did some irrelevant formatting and added a bit more to view_pixel().
21:37.40pacman87viewmlt.c: In function 'view_pixel':
21:37.40pacman87viewmlt.c:184: error: 'width' undeclared (first use in this function)
21:39.37CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31425 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c: Fixed a minor bug - int width not declared.
21:39.52andrecastelomy bad :S
21:39.56andrecastelodid you try rt ?
21:40.06pacman87that's why i generally compile before committing
21:40.34andrecasteloyeah, i do that too, just missed this time
21:41.24andrecasteloanyways, i'll have to leave now
21:41.28andrecastelowill be back later
21:41.30andrecastelocya
21:41.32pacman87bye
22:05.42*** join/#brlcad tjyang (n=tjyang@c-71-194-123-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
22:24.20``Erikthinks you should compile and try running stuff you may've impacted before compiling
22:24.59``Eriklike view/viewmlt/scanline shoulda seen test runs of rt, rtmlt and remrt/rtsrv :)
22:26.00``Eriker
22:26.03``Erikbefore committing
22:33.02``Erik"what good is mining nose-gold if I can't share it with the towns-people???"
22:34.32andrecastelo``Erik: yeah Erik, i usually compile stuff and try a few runs (viewarea for example), but totally forgot this time o.O
22:35.00``Erik*shrug* eventually, it should become pretty much automatic, muscle-memory
22:35.14andrecasteloi'll work on it ;)
22:35.17``Erikbut I've committed without even doing the "does it compile" test just recently, so'z *shrug* :) it happens
22:38.13``Eriknice, a bf2c compiler written in bf
22:38.19``Erikhttp://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/dbf2c.b
22:48.04pooliohowdy all
22:49.15``Erikgreetings, ben
22:51.02poolioah it is quite bizarre reading my real name on IRC, hi ``Erik. How's the office?
22:53.48``Erikthe office is 20 miles over that way *point* so I'm happy :D
23:20.25brlcadyay for problems getting fixed before I get to compile
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080617

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080617

00:06.22``Erikdestroys every rj45 jack in brlcads possession to make it so all the issues get fixed before he can compile :D
00:06.55pacman87``Erik: don't forget to warp his wireless antenna in a faraday cage
00:08.04``ErikI'm fairly certain his intarweb uplink requirs an rj45 :D though he might be low enough to try to steal a neighbors 802.11[bg]
00:08.47``Eriksomeone in the same apt complex as him was whining because they couldn't steal wifi access, so I d'no if he has that opportunity without going "above and beyond" the casual bandwidth thiefs ability...
00:09.22``Erikmah finners hurt
00:10.04``Erikjamming out cream, hendrix, metallica, ac/dc, pantera, and some random thrash/speedmetal... rough on ya if you haven't kept your callouses up
00:10.33``ErikI think I'm running 10's on that gitfiddle, to boot
00:16.29brlcadyup, there are like 15 competing wireless nets
00:17.02brlcadlast I checked, two were wide open, I use them from time to time just for kicks (when I have .. "stuff" .. to download)
00:30.02``Erikdeletes the last two lines
00:31.36``Erikmy face hurts from pissing off punker on webcam O.o
00:31.56``Erikshe's freaking out about my face fuzz, so I keep pulling it out to exaggerate it
00:32.27``Erik(it's not like I have that much, sheesh)
00:33.10``Erikinvests in moustache wax
00:56.16brlcadheh
00:57.07brlcadkinda misses when the goatee could be gripped entirely in hand and still have a bit more to go
01:14.47``Erikheh
01:15.33*** join/#brlcad madant (n=homovulg@202.63.233.61)
01:16.01*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
01:17.09brlcadhowdy madant
01:17.44brlcadgreat name, btw
01:19.49brlcadpacman87: nice update :)
01:19.57brlcadloves getting feed updates
01:21.10pacman87brlcad: yeah, i kind of forgot about it last week; too busy wrestling with tess() :)
01:26.25brlcadpacman87: actually coding and commiting is a perfect excuse and alternative for updating the log :)
02:24.34yukonbobhello, cadheads
02:30.02PrezKennedyhowdy brlcad
02:52.34brlcadhowdy howdy
04:00.40punkrockgirlum, erik has more than face fuzz
04:00.45punkrockgirlfyi :)
04:01.08punkrockgirlhe has more hair on his face than on his head
04:01.20punkrockgirland its not neatly kept
04:01.42punkrockgirl:P
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08:10.20*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
09:02.53d_rossbergi don't like the idea of using a reference to a sketch in other primitives
09:03.07d_rossbergeven the extrude isn't suitable for an example of this
09:03.46d_rossbergcorrect me if i'm wrong but i think this primitive will crash after removing the sketch
09:04.13d_rossbergfurthermore the implementation of nurb curves is missing
09:04.43d_rossbergand the method for bezier works for straight line paths only
09:05.49d_rossbergtherefore i'm not convinced that this would be the right start point for revolves and sweeps
09:24.55brlcadusing the existing nurb curve struct was just a thought
09:24.59brlcador some similar structure
09:25.16brlcadthere are just about five different 3d spline path structures throughout the code
09:25.31brlcadbecause every keeps implementing their own for their little bit
09:25.41brlcadinstead of refactoring that into something proper in librt
09:26.35brlcadthe intent is just to either find something existing that will work perfect or make it something proper in librt (and perhaps get the others using it)
09:28.06brlcadas for the named reference, it certainly shouldn't crash -- it's no different than how combinations and regions work, or textures, or dsp height fields, or bump maps, or extrudes, etc
09:31.34brlcadto change from named references would certainly be a pretty big shift from convention
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10:22.20d_rossbergit's only on the disk a named reference
10:22.57d_rossbergthe internal structure of an extrusion refers to the internal structure of the sketch
10:32.43d_rossbergas for the convention: there is a big difference between the extrusion and your other examples
10:33.46d_rossbergyou can't create an extrusion from an arbitrary sketch
10:34.03brlcadit's actually only the on-disk structure that I was referring to
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10:34.31brlcadit can do whatever it needs to for the internal structure (what is used by prep)
10:35.01brlcadI took what you said of not using a reference to mean that the on-disk shouldn't use a named reference
10:35.44brlcadthe extrusion still isn't so different, I can't create combinations from arbitrary database objects either
10:36.22d_rossbergbut it's limited my their types only?
10:36.51brlcadthey need to be solid 3D primitives or other combinations
10:37.08d_rossbergor sketches
10:37.09brlcadso not even any primitive
10:37.46brlcadhm?
10:38.09d_rossbergonly a question: can a combination contain a sketch?
10:38.58brlcadit could by name, but it would not be a valid combination
10:39.09brlcade.g. if you 'e' it up, it's going to complain
10:39.42d_rossbergmy statement wasn't "every primitive" but "if it can refer an arb (e.g.) then any arb"
10:41.03d_rossbergwith this you can test at creation time for correctness
10:41.26brlcadi'm still not sure what you're trying to say overall :)
10:42.24d_rossbergok, i see some potential preblems there:
10:42.26brlcadmy original notes were merely to 1) decrease entropy when picking a spline path and 2) have on-disk be a named reference .. no more, no less :)
10:42.56brlcadif you're not talking about on-disk, then I don't see a problem
10:43.44d_rossberg1) the test for the referenced sketch is done on creation only
10:43.46brlcadas for usability, there are all sorts of things that can be done to test for correctness at time of creation or db import loading or ray-trace prep
10:44.52d_rossbergi.e. if you create an extrusion and remove the sketch the program will crash next time it accesses the extrusion primitive
10:45.59d_rossberg2) the extrusion primitive has some special requirements to the sketch
10:46.02brlcadit "shouldn't" crash no matter what is done, *any* crash is a hard bug imho that can be prevented :)
10:47.18d_rossbergbecause there is no explicit conversion these requirements are hidden
10:47.35d_rossbergand changing the sketch can destroy the extrusion
10:48.06d_rossberg(that's the "not arbitrary" point)
10:49.41brlcadapologies, but I'm still not clear on what you're trying to say -- are your 1)/2) points potential problems or things that we should do or not do?
10:50.35brlcadand similarly, are you talking about what it should do, shouldn't do, or currently does
10:51.01brlcadas even extrude does a few things currently that it really shouldn't (wrt robustness)
10:52.46brlcadotherwise I quite agree that if you screw up or remove a sketch, you implicitly invalidate the extrude .. and that fact should be evident the next time the extrude is used (because it's invalid)
10:55.37d_rossbergonly invalid wouldn't be a problem for me, e.g. if you have a reference to a texture bitmap and somebody removed this bitmap you won't see it
10:56.53d_rossbergbut if you are using a pointer to an internal structure and you use this pointer without test if the refered object still exits you have a problem
10:58.18d_rossbergtherefore the point is: if you are working with references you have to care for them
10:59.16brlcadquite true
10:59.43d_rossbergsometimes it is woth doing this: combinations, textures, etc.
11:00.00brlcadright, you might remove something merely to update it with something new
11:01.10brlcadI've done something similar with extrudes in the past, removing/updating a sketch to test different extrude shapes -- and it wasn't robust, had bugs that had to be fixed
11:02.04brlcadit used to crash if you created an empty sketch, for example, which is a "valid" sketch, but invalid for extrusion purposes just as if I'd given a curve instead of a closed path contour
11:02.17d_rossbergin the case of an extrusion it would be worth doin it, if there would be a real reference relationship
11:02.19brlcadno longer crashes, that was a bug
11:04.23brlcadi don't see sweep and revolve as being different, they're just different types of sweep paths with extrude being a simple linear and rotationally invariant sweep
11:04.29d_rossbergbut in fact the extrusion primitive has its own type of "sketch" which can be memorized in the BRL-CAD sketch primitive
11:05.09brlcadyou mean the fact that it has to form a non-empty closed loop?
11:05.19brlcadthat being the type?
11:05.32d_rossbergyest, and the nurb thing
11:05.59d_rossberg(i mean "yes")
11:06.43d_rossberglogically it's an other type
11:06.49brlcadyeah, I think that's the same type that sweep needs, but not necessarily the type that revolve needs (since it needs to only be closed on a given axis)
11:07.34d_rossbergand the sweep type would have problems with the Beziers
11:08.49d_rossbergthe common thing is that all these primitives could use rt_sketch_internal
11:09.07brlcadyeah, they should
11:09.13brlcadthey just need to validate differently
11:09.21brlcadwhat's the problem with the bezier curves?
11:09.21d_rossbergbut does this mean the same as having a reference to aan arbitrary sketch?
11:09.43d_rossbergBezier: finding the roots
11:11.42brlcadwhich roots?  roots are used in plotting the curve as well as during ray-tracing (in the case of extrude) to evaluate where the surface is
11:12.53d_rossberge.g. during the ray-trace
11:15.58d_rossbergto be clear: these are problems which should be solved before the implementation starts
11:16.10d_rossbergthe solution could be to use a reference to a sketch and make tests during the ray-trace
11:16.21d_rossbergor to use an internal structure for the sketch and e.g. use the BRL-CAD sketch for creation (and make the tests there)
11:19.41d_rossbergmaybe pacman87 should think about it and give us a well-founded proposal
11:20.09brlcadiirc, the way extrude deals with it is that it loads the sketch during import (stores it in rt_extrude_internal) and then during ray-trace, it converts the sketch into extrude-specific information (i.e. struct extrude_specific, no longer using rt_sketch_internal) by projecting the sketch onto a plane creating a connected set of curves (struct curve) and vertices (point_t's)
11:21.31brlcadyeah, I think pacman87 should think about and document what it needs to do :)
11:23.42d_rossbergi've looked into extrude.c: in the prep function there is a test if the pointer to the sketch is still valid (RT_SKETCH_CK_MAGIC)
11:24.06d_rossbergthis probable solves some problems
11:24.14d_rossberg<PROTECTED>
11:25.18brlcadnods
12:37.35*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
12:38.45*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@123.208.43.139)
12:50.15*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
12:50.44mafmheyo
13:49.41CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31426 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CMakeLists.txt cmake/UsePkgConfig.cmake): CMake now compiles the binary; but more work is needed to get to install the package in the system, and furthermore -- doing it properly.
14:09.51brlcadhowdy mafm
14:13.18mafmhey
14:13.23starseekerputs on his football gear and takes another headlong rush at the firebird manual setup
14:13.56mafmso continuing with yesterday's conversation, is the rt³ module only for the new GUI?
14:14.58mafmthis CMake thing is pretty funny!
14:17.26brlcadhah
14:17.41brlcadlikes the appropos use of unicode
14:18.25mafmUnicode?
14:18.35mafmit's regular ascii I think
14:18.36brlcadrt³
14:18.39brlcadis it?
14:18.43brlcadneat
14:18.58mafmwell, when you press caret ^ plus 2 or 3, it adds that character
14:19.13mafmI did it unintentionally, trying to write rt^3 :)
14:19.39mafmthe key strokes are: r t shift+caret space 3
14:19.50brlcadrt^ 3
14:19.52mafmif you don't press the space, caret is applied as an accent
14:19.52brlcad:)
14:20.14mafmas for â é
14:20.29brlcadwhich OS?
14:21.03*** part/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@76-10-146-181.dsl.teksavvy.com)
14:21.38mafmDebian Linuz
14:22.32mafm(0)¹ n² c³ ... r^4 doesn't work
14:23.19mafmprobably your keyboard is not set up to have carect acting as an accent, so you can't do it like this
14:23.45brlcaddoesn't see superscript in the ascii table
14:24.23mafmhttp://www.pemberley.com/janeinfo/latin1.html
14:24.26mafmthis one has
14:24.33mafmnot ascii though :D
14:25.04brlcadah, yeah
14:25.19brlcad8859-1 != ascii ;)
14:26.33brlcadnice, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_page_850 shows the overlap
14:28.22brlcad
14:28.48mafmI see a "blank space" (with rectangle around)
14:29.04mafmthat CP is for windows
14:29.21brlcadfigured, it's a mac-specific charcode
14:29.26mafmequivalent of latin1 I think
14:30.18brlcadi know that's what the table is for, but it still shows where ascii and latin1 coincide
14:30.35brlcadand (more interestingly) where they don't
14:33.20brlcad╔╦╗y ♥ → BRL-CAD  â˜»
14:33.30brlcadwoo, irssi didn't like that :)
14:33.53brlcadcourse I'm set to utf-8 atm
14:34.20mafmyou look like a orkut teenager :P
14:37.48brlcadmeh, if I could feel like one too, I'd be a great shape ;)
14:38.25mafmheh :)
14:39.10mafmso well... the module is mainly for g3d or not? would I create a general CMakefile instead?
14:39.58CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31427 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CMakeLists.txt cmake/UsePkgConfig.cmake): Sanitizing the helper pkg-config module for CMake
14:45.01PrezKennedybrlcad, is my brother on a windoze machine?
14:46.24brlcadPrezKennedy: nope
14:46.51PrezKennedyany machine at all? i know its the Fed... it took em two weeks to get me connected
14:47.08brlcadmafm: mainly, yes -- that's where it's all going to come together for the geometry service, the OO engine API, and the new gui (i.e. g3d)
14:48.55PrezKennedyfirst day at FGS i had to set up my own computer :P
14:50.05mafmoki
14:54.18brlcadand they all need to work together :)
14:55.15brlcadwhich includes organizationally putting things together than can be reused, but also keeping an eye on the library functionality in our existing core libraries (libbu, libbn, librt, libged)
14:55.46brlcadbob said last night that libged is almost ready for you to use for testing
14:56.41mafmgood
14:56.50brlcadthere's only two pieces of functionality that should be needed, opendb and draw
14:57.02brlcadthat gives you a display list for rendering 3d wireframes
14:57.42brlcadthe focus should still be more on the gui itself, though, getting the major portions worked on (like non-overlapping windows, command overlay, etc)
14:58.44mafmyep
14:59.10mafmand I think that I'll need all this week for getting all this building thing complete, with the external libraries and so on
14:59.42brlcadoh, what's the complicated part?
15:00.45mafmthe external libs, devise an automatic system to compile all that, applying patches and so on
15:05.39brlcadok, sounds good
15:05.47brlcadlet bob know :)
15:05.52brlcadand/or wiki note
15:09.04mafmshould I write bob especially? he never comments anything
15:13.11brlcadupdating the wiki should be fine
15:13.15brlcadhe reads it
15:13.29brlcadhe's just a guy of (very) few words
15:13.57brlcadhe cares more about end-result and/or if you directly ask him a specific technical question
15:16.14starseekerbegins to like XInclude
15:26.12``Erikbrlcad: on site today? lunch?
15:26.25brlcaddunno
15:27.33brlcadlemme know where you decide to go
15:27.36mafmoki
15:29.00brlcadlikes how the CMake universal deals with relocatable Mac installs
15:39.29mafmbrlcad: can you please put this in a CMakeLists.txt and give me the SYSTEM output?
15:39.29mafminclude(CMakePrintSystemInformation)
15:47.31brlcadhttp://paste.bzflag.bz/m1f49d99d
15:53.39mafmholy cow
15:53.46mafmthe system name is Darwin?
15:54.30mafmI thought that it would be MacOSX or so
15:54.57mafmif creationists discover this internal name for Mac, they might set Stevie on fire
16:08.41CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31428 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Application.cxx CMakeLists.txt): Auto-detecting system when building, intead of hardcoding POSIX, and some other misc enhancements
16:10.24CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31429 10/rt^3/trunk/ (data/ src/data/): Moving data out of src/, for some reason I had created it in there...
16:21.02brlcadmafm: the kernel and underlying BSD OS has always been called Darwin
16:21.34brlcad"Mac OS X" is a suite of applications and frameworks that sit on top of Darwin
16:22.25brlcadjust like with the autotools, though, you really shouldn't be associating functionality with the system type, it should be tied to features
16:24.29mafmtesting for features separately?
16:24.30brlcadat least if/when you can at all avoid it, just not a good approach for long-term maintainability
16:25.03brlcadabsolutely
16:25.23brlcadif you need to know if X is available, you don't assume POSIX means there's X, you test for X
16:25.30brlcadthat sort of thing
16:26.38brlcador better example, say you had a bit of code that needed to use posix threads .. you wouldn't test for POSIX, you'd test for posix threads specifically as that could be available on APPLE, WIN32, etc,
16:29.57mafmI see
16:33.11brlcadit's a little more work, but it's the maintainable approach
16:33.31brlcadactually ends up making the logic somewhat simpler overall
16:33.55brlcadotherwise you end up needing to add version checks per platform that quickly can get messy
16:35.13brlcadgood catch on the src/data move .. I swear I'd checked to make sure it wasn't in src when you originally committed :)
16:35.22mafmbut I guess that it can be cascated with the libraries?
16:35.40brlcad~dict cascate
16:35.48mafmcascade*
16:35.56mafmi.e. my program doesn't include any X file at all
16:36.08brlcadthat's a good thing! :)
16:36.17brlcadhopefully never will
16:37.55brlcadnot sure what you mean by cascaded though, data resources are generally not tied to libraries
16:39.02mafmthat I don't need to test for X in specifically in my program, that's up to OGRE
16:39.33mafmif OGRE builds fine or there's OGRE installed in the system, I don't have to care
16:42.50brlcadoh
16:42.58brlcadeh, that was just an example, like the posix threads
16:43.08brlcadit could be any bit of functionality
16:43.48brlcadthe point being to test for the functionality at configure time, not some concept of a system that is supposed to have that functionality
16:45.33brlcadso in the case of ogre creating platform-specific windows, the "feature" is the windowing system they're requiring
16:51.54mafmwell, but I mean that OGRE does that by itself
16:52.10mafmso I don't have to do it again for the program, I hope?
16:59.46brlcadif ogre does it by itself, then you don't need to do any checks at all theoretically
17:00.18brlcadI'm saying in the code *you* write and the checks you find you need to perform, there shouldn't be system tests
17:06.16mafmbut in example for RBGui they want in general the platform
17:06.47mafmso they abstract some operations (directory listing, mouse cursos, etc) all together
17:07.21mafmso in principle that has to be treated as a whole
17:08.35``Erik(bowling alley, ya didn't miss much)
17:09.48``Erikone of the big benefits  from moving to cake to autotools was the ability to reference feature instead of OS, suddenly a lot of '#ifdef IRIX_6" went away and suddenly a bunch of new platforms could be built on O.o
17:13.18brlcadmafm: understood and expected, lots of projects still perform platform assumptions -- we don't
17:13.32brlcadunless absolutely necessary, or some other really good justification
17:13.48brlcadI guess I'd have to see an example where you think it's needed
17:13.59clock_unless relatively necessary?
17:14.17brlcadas it almost never really is, even when you're using 3rd party libs that make the assumptions
17:14.24clock_I just found one thing in my code which doesn't work properly because it wasn't implemented
17:14.33clock_Things seem to work somewhat better when they are implemented
17:14.33mafmwell, the one that I explained is
17:14.43mafmRBGui does those assumptions
17:14.54clock_brlcad: do you know Spanish?
17:15.30mafmclock_: it depends on the programmer, though
17:15.37clock_brlcad: I have to finish the BRL-CAD film, not because I should, but because it gives me a nice famililar feeling, unlike say, going wakeboarding
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17:23.23brlcadmafm: yes, I understand that rbgui makes those assumptions but that has nothing to do with your use and an actual problem encountered codewise
17:23.41brlcadclock_: si
17:24.09clock_brlcad: is spanish complicate language to learn?
17:24.29brlcadnot really, very nicely structured language, not too many irregular rules
17:24.40clock_brlcad: does it have flexion like german?
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17:25.34mafmwell, the only thing that I need at the moment about platforms is that
17:25.41andrecastelohi guys
17:25.45mafmthe rest of my code doesn't need anything special
17:25.47mafmhi andrecastelo
17:26.22brlcadmafm: then let me be more specific, because we're not getting to the point it seems
17:26.30brlcadwhat makes you say you need it?
17:26.33brlcadspecifically
17:28.13mafmbrlcad: http://rafb.net/p/1EsPdG86.html -- this piece of code
17:30.17brlcadokay, that's more concrete, so rbgui has broken out some level of interface by platform (and cursor (input?) control) into headers and those in turn imply some set of functionality7
17:30.45brlcadwhat does posix actually mean to them?
17:31.16brlcadas macs are posix compliant as are some portions of windows even with the right settings
17:31.25mafmthe cursor bit is to disable the regular cursor when you're inside the GL window
17:31.44brlcadokay, why does only WIN32 do that?
17:32.47mafmI'm not sure of the details yet
17:32.53brlcadk
17:32.59brlcadso back to the example
17:33.02mafmin example the POSIX thing is mostly empty
17:33.19mafmthat's why the auto-repeat with keyboard wasn't working, in example
17:33.55brlcadin that particular case with those headers, the usual way would be to break out the interface per platform per file, so you can push the platform type up into the build system
17:34.13clock_erbbut cygwin isn't posix compliant even in places where they claim to
17:34.15brlcadso on windows, you build the windows sources
17:34.36brlcadand the file would be limited to exactly just what is needed to encapsulate rbgui's concept of a platform
17:34.58brlcadotherwise it's going to cascade a need for platform types throughout the app
17:37.50brlcadif that snippet is from a file that is supposed to be that encapsulating wrapper and the intent is to keep it simple with just one or two files, it should still be tied to what a platform means to rbgui -- which is likely some ui featureset that could be captured with platform-centric ui tests
17:38.44brlcade.g. instead of testing sytem==apple, you'd test for the IOKit framework or some other Mac framework that they require
17:39.17brlcadas that implicitly is tied to the platform, but is a test for the feature rbgui is assuming as part of the platform
17:39.50mafmsheesh
17:40.22mafmcan I defer this for a bit later? :)
17:41.43brlcadexcept later will never come, I'd bet on it :)
17:42.04brlcadthis is the kind of feature creep that becomes a maintenance nightmare in five to ten years
17:42.49mafmwell yes, but RBGui looks fine and all that, but I'd like to test it more because it still can have some hard edges that prevent us from using it
17:42.54brlcadin the process of undoing years of that sort of propagation on the main codebase, very time-consuming and costly now -- moreso than it would have been to do it right up front
17:43.31mafmapart from that I want to get this running soon so everybody can test
17:43.36brlcadthat's fair enough, though it should be decided by the midpoint if it's to be used
17:43.56brlcadthen make a TODO entry with that at the top
17:44.08brlcadit needs to be done (during gsoc) if rbgui is going to stay
17:47.04mafmoki
17:59.20mafmcan I pass some variable (data directory) when compiling? kind of g++ -DDATA_DIR=path...
17:59.49mafmor only the symbol can be defined (DATA_DIR) but no content, as is usually the case with DEBUG and the like?
18:00.02mafmI can't get examples with google :S
18:14.53CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31430 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/oed/oed.xml: Add some tweaks suggested by Paul tanenbaum, add acknowledgements.
18:21.08brlcadmafm: use bu_brlcad_data("data", 0);
18:22.01brlcadthat'll give you a configure-time, compile-time, and run-time hook that can be overridden for finding resources
18:22.47brlcadby default, it'll find data in the current directory, if you want compile-time path, you'd define BRLCAD_DATA to your install path
18:24.09brlcadand to do that, it's just what you showed, a CPPFLAG of -DVAR to just "set" it and -DVAR="VALUE" to set it to a specific value
18:24.58brlcade.g. -DBRLCAD_DATA=/usr/local/share/rt^3/data
18:41.45mafmsigh
18:41.45CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31431 10/brlcad/trunk/ (23 files in 5 dirs): Shift oed to tutorials subdirectory
18:41.58mafmOGRE is segfaulting now and I don't know why
18:52.00mafmyay, now it works \o/
19:00.30CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31432 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (book/ book/README book/book.xml catalog.xml): Add test book file which demonstrates method of combining documents to make a new document - technique testing ONLY at this point
19:01.27brlcadwoot!
19:09.15mafmbrlcad: what's the mime type for ttf? they don't have an own type
19:09.27mafmapplication/x-font is for others
19:09.35mafmapplication/x-font                              pfa pfb gsf pcf pcf.Z
19:13.09brlcadmm, checking
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19:15.37brlcadlooks like it's just application/octet-stream
19:15.49brlcadthere is nothing official registered from what I can see
19:17.46mafmyep
19:18.00CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31433 10/rt^3/trunk/data/g3d/RBGui/ (59 files in 7 dirs): Submitting data for RBGui (fonts, decorations, shaders...)
19:18.05brlcadadds .ttf to the sample
19:20.39mafmgood
19:21.14brlcadandrecastelo: finally testing rtarea, nice work on the surface :)
19:21.22brlcadnow to just figure out why it doesn't actually work :)
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19:27.26IriX64http://rafb.net/p/jZlpIy41.html
19:27.43IriX64cheers :)
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19:30.55brlcadone of only a handful of people that really make me wish there was a way I could reach through their monitors to slap them
19:32.17starseekerheh
19:37.10starseekerwonders why subversion doesn't check mime types BEFORE uploading all the file data (and then throwing it out when it doesn't like something)
19:41.58CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31434 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Application.cxx CMakeLists.txt): Making it work with CMake in a relatively clean fashion.
19:48.35mafmbrlcad: do you happen to have the rest of the libraries working (OGRE, RBGui...)?
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20:01.35brlcadstarseeker: put in a feature request :)
20:02.04brlcadcourse the answer is probably because it's a post-commit-hook instead of a pre-commit-hook
20:02.12brlcadand we have no (easy) control over that
20:02.30brlcadmafm: nope
20:02.40mafmI see
20:02.43brlcadwas waiting for you to give the thumbs up :)
20:02.50brlcadwhen it's integrated cleanly
20:03.22mafmcleanly it is -- but you have to have them installed :D
20:03.23brlcadI'm itching to try it
20:20.01starseekerwhips out his Quake railgun and starts blasting away at mime types
20:22.00CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31435 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/resources/ (37 files in 4 dirs): Add docbook dtd files
20:29.54mafmI go now
20:29.57mafmbye
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20:54.28andrecastelohi again
20:54.55andrecastelobrlcad: sorry, had to leave earlier.. rtarea is outputting wrong info ?
20:57.17brlcadal zeros
20:57.58brlcadshould also probably be a separate section for formatting compatibility
20:58.20brlcadrtarea could use some formatting love like starseeker added to nirt
21:02.20CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31436 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/resources/standard/xsl/ (. VERSION): Add xsl directory - do this piecemeal so it actually works.
21:04.03CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31437 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/resources/standard/xsl/ (13 files): Add rest of top level xsl files
21:05.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31438 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/resources/standard/xsl/ (101 files in 3 dirs): Add rest common, docsrc, eclipse
21:13.53CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31439 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/resources/standard/xsl/ (425 files in 20 dirs): Add epub, extensions, fo
21:16.00CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31440 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/resources/standard/xsl/ (76 files in 3 dirs): Add highlighting, html, htmlhelp
21:17.38CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31441 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/resources/standard/xsl/ (126 files in 5 dirs): Add images javahelp lib manpages
21:23.05CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31442 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/resources/standard/xsl/ (784 files in 16 dirs): Add params profiling roundtrip slides
21:26.59CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31443 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/resources/standard/xsl/ (140 files in 5 dirs): add template tests website xhtml xhtml-1_1
22:14.12CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31444 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c: Added more headers and removed some extern declarations. Added file writing in view_pixel(), based on rt's view_pixel() as suggested by ``Erik.
22:15.45CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31445 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/hyp/hyp.c: general efficiency improvements; remove unnecessary debug logging code
22:16.57pacman87rt is ~6% faster now
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080618

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080618

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00:47.34brlcadpacman87: neat
01:37.10brlcadif anyone wants to get on the .de server and already has a .bz account, just lemme know
01:42.50yukonboblots of committing to docbook...
01:42.56yukonbobhello, cadheads
01:43.57brlcadyeah, that's a about 1000 files more than I thought it was going to be :)
01:44.37brlcadstarseeker: you should run distcheck if you haven't
01:47.06yukonbobreads scrollback, for .de server desc, and whatever else crops up...
01:49.29yukonbobheh -- IriX64 was here and I missed him
01:55.01yukonbobbrlcad: what is this .de server about?
02:58.13brlcadyukonbob: ah, I have another dedicated host over in germany
02:58.35brlcadit doesn't have a fqdn yet, so I just call it the .de server
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03:27.34PrezKennedybrlcad, i want one!
03:27.48PrezKennedylogs in every once in awhile to brush up on his unix commands
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04:11.22starseekersvn updates and runs distcheck to see what he busted this time...
04:20.50starseekerbrlcad:  Let me know if that's too much
04:20.56starseekerin docbook I mean
04:23.02brlcadmight want to reduce the binary, maybe nix examples
04:23.25brlcadand the testing framework if it doesn't get us anything
04:24.29starseekerno problem - I was a bit rushed there at the end of the day
04:24.49starseekeris definitely in favor of trimming to the minimum, once he figures out what said minimum is
04:25.46brlcadk
04:25.55brlcadno rush to trim
04:27.42starseekerkeeps eye on distcheck build, misses super-powered machines at work
04:35.17starseekerbrlcad:  What would you recommend as a good example of a journal-style CSG modeling paper?  Are there any particularly good examples to learn from in terms of styling, information to present, etc?
04:45.39pooliort^ 3
04:45.47poolioI had to test that...and I failed :(
04:45.54poolioAlso, alloo all.
04:47.28starseekerdistcheck failed, but not where I was thinking it would:
04:47.32starseeker../../../src/rt/scanline.c:26:22: error: scanline.h: No such file or directory
04:56.07starseekertweaks...
04:59.15brlcadpoolio: heh
04:59.46brlcadstarseeker: that'd be a file missing from the Makefile.am, header missing from noinst_HEADERS in that case
05:00.52brlcadstarseeker: I finally read some of paul's note -- he is right about the subtraction -- once you subtraced the sphere from the cylinder on the lollipop, that included the core and the stick
05:01.02brlcada nitpick overlooked detail, but valid
05:01.42brlcadthey're needed for the first part, just not the seond
05:04.27brlcadhis reason for the pull command is semi bogus .. a pull command would be awesome, just mildly more complicated to implement properly
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05:16.33poolioheh, .de seems faster than .bz
05:22.06brlcadit is
05:22.25brlcadfaster everything (net pipe, disks, cpu, ..)
05:22.45brlcadand cheaper! ze crazy germans
05:24.51pooliosweet :)
05:27.05brlcadshould totally make that a freenode node or mirror for something when it's configured
05:28.43PrezKennedyit also doesnt have anything on it...
05:28.47PrezKennedyprobably helps a bit
05:28.47PrezKennedy:P
05:40.43CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31446 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiConsole.cxx History.h): break out the History class into its own file, plus some comment cleanup
05:41.01CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31447 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/GuiConsole.h: comment/header cleanup
05:41.08brlcadthat too
05:46.13CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31448 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Logger.cxx: ws
05:48.10CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31449 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiConsole.cxx History.h): get rid of using namespace std -- conventionally/intentionally use std:: scope on all stl types to make the code universally unambiguous. also fix ws indentation.
05:50.32CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31450 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/main.cxx: ws + header
06:38.23brlcadstarseeker: at a quick glance, it looks like the epub subtree could probably go (ebook format) .. it's about 25 MB of "stuff" that wouldn't be high on the priority list anytime soon
06:40.36brlcadthat was all I noticed at a glance
06:46.30CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31451 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pc_solver.cpp: ws and header cleanup, intentionally do not use 'using namespace std;' in order to make the usages of stl classes unambiguous
06:46.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31452 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pc_solver.h: ws and header cleanup, intentionally do not use 'using namespace std;' in order to make the usages of stl classes unambiguous
06:49.50CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31453 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (5 files): ws
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08:52.35CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31454 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (5 files): Class definitions for constraint solver: Interval, Domain, and Variable in pc_solver.h; Code beautification/indentation to be done
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10:53.27mafmhey
11:11.36brlcadhowdy mafm
11:17.02mafmsigh
11:17.14mafmI could do better, but not very bad
11:19.53mafmhave to go out for a bit
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12:43.49CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31455 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/resources/standard/xsl/epub/: Remove epub xsl files - not high priority output target, large amount of stuff (per Sean's suggestion)
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13:01.51andrecastelomorning all
13:05.41mafmmorning andrecastelo
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14:02.28CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r31456 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Since MUVES3 was not using the asynchronous capabilities, simplified this library to eliminate pthreads, queues, and most of the locking. These changes were also suggested by Ron and Erik.
14:03.34CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31457 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/loop.c: added -c argument to loop.c so as to support characters
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16:04.43homovulgarishi all
16:04.46homovulgarispacman87: how is it going ;)
16:06.06homovulgarismafm: how do i see g3d :) i did a make in rt^3 trunk.. but i guess i need to do much more ?
16:08.23homovulgarisloves the tropics and the monsoon : enjoying the rain for the last 36 hours ( non-stop)
17:09.48pooliobrlcad: So I'm a bit confused about working with nmgs...to retrieve say, all the vertices, do I just repeatedly call the macros and that will properly manipulate the indices? Or is it that each vertex is an element in a linked list that I can iterate over?
17:36.51CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31458 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/tutorials/oed/oed.xml: Fix to lollipop model suggested by Paul Tanenbaum
17:52.14CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31459 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/tutorials/oed/ (README oed.xml): Point dtd reference to new location, add note on xsltproc conversion
17:56.01CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31460 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/Makefile.am: Add scanline.h to noinst_HEADERS, per Sean
18:13.02pacman87is there documentation somewhere on how to use sketch/extrude?
18:13.34mafmhomovulgaris: I need to upload OGRE and the rest of libraries
18:17.04mafmbrlcad: what's "ws" of your commit comments?
18:17.11pacman87whitespace
18:20.03mafmI see
18:21.18homovulgaris:)
18:21.41homovulgarismafm: didnt svn diff show that ?
18:22.04mafmthere are more changes than that
18:26.42homovulgariswhat changes i see only corresponding line addition and removals ( svn diff -r 31453:31452  right ? ) , code style standardization of my files :)
18:29.03mafmthere are 5 commits or so
18:30.38homovulgarisoh ok u meant all the commits together.. :) hows the ogre hacking going btw ;)
18:31.28mafmthere are the comment "ws" in 2 or 3 of them, and in some it's not only that
18:32.07mafmthe hacking of OGRE is not an issue, the hacking of the GUI libraries (RBGui) is
18:32.28mafmI offered to the guys to maintain that in their server, a week or more ago, but no reply
18:32.30mafm:(
18:32.50mafmit's much better to do it that way than having to maintain private patches
18:33.16mafmapart from the obvious "useful for everyone, not just us" because it simplifies the process of building it from our side
18:39.07CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31461 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: Added GED_INIT
18:41.07CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31462 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/setup.c: Temporarily comment out the E command.
18:51.24CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31463 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (chgmodel.c chgtree.c cmd.c): Use GED_INIT initialize ged.
18:52.14CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31464 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/wdb_obj.c: Use GED_INIT to initialize ged.
18:55.48homovulgarismafm: hmm .. why dont they have a irc channel :P
19:02.11mafmthey don't even have proper website
19:04.26mafmhttp://www.rightbraingames.com/
19:04.39mafmyou have to go to http://www.rightbraingames.com/tech/ to actually see something
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19:13.38homovulgarisRBG stands for Right Brain Games :O :) ?
19:14.06prasad1the new brlcad gui is built using rbgui?
19:17.05homovulgarisafaik yes :) mafm: so ogre provides the rendering functionality which u would be accessing via rbgui ? i mean rbgui basically provides ui elements and management right ? or does it act as a layer above ogre for everything ?
19:18.26homovulgarisprasad1: u are from india :) ?
19:18.42prasad1close, sri lanka
19:19.21homovulgariscloser ;) . my home is in kerala :) i am right now more near Bangladesh though
19:19.40prasad1ah cool
19:19.45homovulgariswould love to visit Sri Lanka sometime
19:20.10prasad1most of us have origins in kerala
19:20.11prasad1:)
19:22.53homovulgariswow :) I thought it was more tamil-esque :)
19:23.07prasad1who? SL?
19:23.14prasad170% majority is sinhalese
19:23.37homovulgarisk
19:23.49prasad1it's not well known but most anthropologists say the sinhalese ppl are from kerala
19:23.58prasad120% tamils from tamil nadu
19:24.32homovulgarisinteresting :) I know pretty little about my neighbour i realise
19:25.47homovulgarishmm.. i should be back in Kerala soon.. end of the month .. home after 2 years :)
19:25.57prasad1then again most ppl believe a story about a prince and crew from a mythical kingdom in northern india
19:26.04prasad1cool
19:26.11mafmhomovulgaris: yes, RBG stands for that... would be funny BDGui though
19:26.13mafm:P
19:26.14prasad1my mother in law is from kerala
19:26.29homovulgarispacman87: did u find anything on sketch and extrude ?
19:26.43homovulgarisprasad1: nice :)
19:26.47mafmRBgui only provides windows and widgets
19:26.58mafmyou have to inject the input from ogre (keyboard, mouse, whatever)
19:27.13mafmfor displaying geometries and all that, OGRE will be used directly
19:27.21homovulgarishmmm..
19:28.09prasad1we might visit kerala next year
19:28.24homovulgarisI have only used libcairo before for output.. 0 knowledge about openGL, ogre et al :) rendering stuff must be fun :)
19:28.51prasad1heh not really
19:29.00homovulgarisprasad1: If you come near cochin let me know maybe we could meet up :)
19:30.12prasad1heh cool
19:30.31pacman87homovulgaris: no, unfortunately
19:31.29pacman87http://www.nabble.com/-brlcad---Developers--QCAD-integration-inside-BRL-CAD--td5495294.html
19:31.40pacman87did anything ever come from that?
19:36.51homovulgarishmmm..
19:53.23homovulgarispacman87: i cant locate the code for sketch type in mged/typein
19:53.23homovulgarishow are we supposed to add sketches anyways :O
19:53.42pacman87homovulgaris: that's what i was wondering, too
19:54.42pacman87read primitives/sketch/sketch.c import/export functions, and write your own binary file to conform to that standard?
19:54.45pacman87:)
20:22.42mafmgoing home now, take care guys :)
20:25.23homovulgarispacman87: I guess there must be some system of inserting sketch if not via mged
20:25.41pacman87i dl'd and complied qcad
20:25.46homovulgarisotherwise how would they have tested during development of extrude
20:26.29pacman87make a simple sketch, saved as .dxf
20:26.43pacman87now i'm trying to figure how to import that to brl-cad
20:26.50homovulgarisdxf-g now :) ?
20:28.26homovulgarisconv/dxf-g should do that work shouldnt it ?
20:28.31pacman87yeah
20:28.49pacman87/usr/brlcad/bin/dxg-g input.dxf output.g
20:28.55pacman87*dxf-g
20:29.09homovulgarisyep :)
20:30.14pacman87although the conversion switches everything to line segments
20:36.18homovulgarishmm supporting splines would be a functional addition to dxf-g.. but if dxf import is the only method of adding a sketch, we should concentrate on providing make sketch functionality within mged / brlcad
20:36.35homovulgaristhough i guess specifying bsplines using commandline would be pretty tedious
20:37.50pacman87yeah, the sketch primitive has line segments, circular arcs, bezier splines and nurb
21:06.22starseekerwoot - make distcheck succeeded
21:07.25homovulgarisis taking a nap
21:07.58starseekerand the tarball didn't suck up the dtd and xsl dirs
21:08.03starseekerbreaths a sigh of relief
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22:11.43brlcadpacman87: nope, absolutely nothing came of it -- erosenst had a few questions, but never got to trying afaik
22:12.14pacman87brlcad: how are sketches made in brlcadA?
22:12.25brlcadthrough the sketch editor
22:12.56brlcadCreate -> sketch
22:13.19pacman87yeah, i'm still using classic mode ;)
22:13.32brlcadahh, then somewhat tough :)
22:13.48brlcadyou can create an empty one with "make sketch sketch"
22:13.54brlcadbut that's certainly not useful
22:14.03pacman87i tried that, but it crashed
22:14.10brlcadoh?
22:14.16brlcadsounds like a bug that needs fixing
22:14.17brlcadoooh
22:14.19brlcadright
22:14.44brlcadthere was a bit that bob committed just yesterday (or day before) that broke the 'make' command and a slew of other mged commands
22:14.51brlcadhe's working on it now
22:14.57pacman87ok
22:15.14brlcadif you revert libged and mged dirs to friday, it should work
22:15.27pacman87i got the import workign from qcad .dxf, so i have a sample sketch to play with
22:15.27brlcador you can add the one-liner that makes it not crash
22:15.37brlcadah, even better
22:15.39pacman87unfortunately, the import is just line segments
22:16.53brlcaddo they enclose an area?
22:17.11pacman87yes
22:17.29pacman87my original sketch had two lines and an arc
22:17.38pacman87the arc was approximated using line segments on import
22:17.43brlcadahh
22:32.28brlcadpacman87: I'll make a sample sketch for you
22:32.32brlcadgimmie a sec
22:33.20brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/sketch.g
22:34.20brlcadthat's a sketch that has all of the basic entities (circle, arc, line, and two bezier curves)
22:34.35brlcadwith an extrude that shows it
22:34.42pacman87ok, thanks
22:34.48brlcadwhich for some reason is god-aweful slow here
22:35.04brlcadsome semaphore contention .. lemme know if it's slow for you
22:35.30pacman87what part is slow?
22:36.13brlcadthe ray-trace
22:36.19brlcadI think it's because of the two beziers
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22:36.50brlcadthey invoke malloc/free a few dozen/hundred times per ray as part of their evaluation...
22:36.53brlcadutterly horrible
22:37.00brlcadwas never optimized
22:37.07pacman87can't that be moved to prep()?
22:37.09brlcadshould never alloc during a shotline
22:37.16brlcadof course! :)
22:37.19brlcador not done at all
22:37.28brlcadin this case, it could probably go away entirely
22:38.21brlcadfyi, if you run g2asc, you can see the basic structure and could use that to make your own sketches with a text edtior
22:38.53brlcadthere's a VL vertex list followed by a SL segment list that defines the thing
22:39.04brlcadvery simple
22:39.36brlcadthe dxf-g should just preserve the entities instead of turning them all into line segments
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080619

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080619

00:20.23*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
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02:21.19yukonbobhello, cadhead
02:21.21yukonbob*s
02:21.32pacman87hi yukonbob
02:21.41yukonbobhey pacman87, how're tricks?
02:21.51pacman87tricks?
02:22.19yukonbob*How're things going?
02:23.04pacman87pretty good, hyp is just about finished, and i'm starting to research for rev/sweep
02:23.16pacman87you?
02:24.07yukonboboh... I'm tuckered out. Long hours... no time to geek out w/ BRL-CAD, unfortunately... and I _need_ to so I can get the latest revs building/running nicely...
02:24.20yukonbobbut I'm alive, so that's good.
02:24.31yukonbob(some might disagree)
02:30.42dtidrowheh
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06:58.46homovulgariswakes up after 9 hours of sleep
06:58.56homovulgaristhat was a long nap :P
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07:03.26brlcadheh
07:15.04homovulgarishi sean, didnt see rossberg
07:15.21brlcad~seen rossberg
07:15.24ibotrossberg <n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 448d 16h 32m 32s ago, saying: 'brlcad: sorry, "fmax" is missing on ftp.brlcad.org'.
07:15.29brlcad~seen drossberg
07:15.30ibotbrlcad: i haven't seen 'drossberg'
07:15.33brlcadgr
07:15.40homovulgaris:D
07:15.48brlcadah
07:15.52brlcad~seen d_rossberg
07:15.53ibotd_rossberg <n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 1d 19h 51m 39s ago, saying: ' (but not all ;-)'.
07:16.28brlcadhomovulgaris: it was more when you get the chance to ask him
07:17.14homovulgaris:) btw, i was planning on using this for the graph representation : http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_35_0/libs/graph/doc/adjacency_list.html
07:17.31homovulgarisbut i have to check about defining graph traversal system
07:18.55homovulgarisi hope to be able to make a simple constraint solution search system in the next few days: brute force with simple backtracking
07:19.26brlcadhm, you'd think we'd have a graph structure already
07:19.38brlcadgiven the CSG hierarchy is a directed acylcic graph
07:20.42homovulgarishmm.. should check that out then .. would the structure definition be in bu ?
07:20.42brlcadyou just might be "in luck" though, I'm not seeing or remembering a specific structure that would help other than our red-black trees (and that's a stretch)
07:21.09brlcadbu, bn, or rt
07:21.15brlcadmaybe to a quick search
07:21.22brlcadbut I'm not remembering
07:21.28brlcadgood question for daytona if you see him
07:21.45brlcadthough I think the answer is still no
07:21.53homovulgarisk. i'll mail him , update wiki
07:22.15brlcadgood idea, copy the devel list
07:22.24brlcad(if you mail him)
07:22.43homovulgarisand the idea of rt_params was to just get the set of parameters.. constraint return would be via pc_constraint_import
07:23.21brlcadI meant implicit constraints that all primitives have
07:23.36brlcadlike how a sphere has implicit constraints that a==b==c
07:23.39homovulgaristo set the parameters i was thinking of adding another function.. but that seems unnecessary.. i should integrate it to params itself ?
07:23.43brlcadwhere a,b,c are the params
07:23.49homovulgarisyeah implicit constraints ofcourse
07:24.06brlcadhm?
07:24.07homovulgarisi mean implicit constraints would be returned by rt_*_params
07:24.13brlcadah, okay
07:24.21brlcadso some way to delineate between the two
07:25.33homovulgaristwo ? u mean set / return ?
07:25.49brlcadyeah, the set being returned
07:26.24homovulgarishey sean, what is the convention .. right now i have all the method definitions for the classes inside .h files .. should i shift them to .cpps ?
07:26.30homovulgariswith one file for each class ?
07:26.35brlcadi mean you're either making two functions, one for parameters and one for the primitive constraints, or one func that returns both with a means to distinguish which is a parameter and which is a constraint
07:27.43homovulgaristhe idea of params() right now is to return both parameters and constraints while distinguishing between both..
07:27.44brlcadhomovulgaris: that's not so much a matter of convention as it is intent -- if you don't intend them to be inlined, they should probably go into a cpp
07:28.04brlcadand the .h then just describes and documents the class/methds
07:28.18brlcadokay, that's what I though
07:28.19homovulgarisk
07:28.31brlcadparams() might not be the best name, but I don't have another suggestion :)
07:28.55homovulgaristhat can always be changed :) i suck at naming.. even pc sounds crappy ;)
07:29.14brlcadyou should try to keep it to one class per file, unless they're a bunch of really small related classes
07:29.43brlcadpc works surprisingly well
07:30.02homovulgarishmm. right now that .h is around 350 lines without comments.. so i was thinking split it into 2
07:30.05brlcadand the namespace conflicts on libpc are similarly conveniently very minimal
07:30.22brlcad"that .h"?
07:30.29homovulgarispc_solver.h
07:31.18homovulgariswill be back after lunch :)
07:31.22brlcadI'd imagine it would necessarily break up
07:31.35brlcade.g. the generic interval class kinda belongs by itself
07:31.48homovulgarisyeah.. that was my plan
07:31.58brlcadsame for domain, etc
07:32.05brlcadyou've got a lot of classes in there
07:32.11homovulgarisprobably Interval in one.. and Domain and variable together or 3 separate..
07:32.23homovulgarissome of them have to be removed / upgraded :D
07:32.29homovulgarisi mean the empty ones :)
07:32.42brlcadtry to keep it to one unless they really are so tightly coupled to each other that they don't make sense without the other
07:32.59brlcador if one is effectively just a private class that another class uses
07:33.14brlcad(akin to a static struct)
07:33.31homovulgarishmm not exactly i think in the near future we will have inheritances from Interval for example
07:34.01brlcadthe inherited classes become domain-specific
07:34.03homovulgarisfor discrete intervals or something like that or from Variable for different types
07:34.08brlcadthat alone is a good reason to separate
07:34.16homovulgarisyeah
07:34.19brlcadif these were broken into sub-libs, Interval is a generic concept
07:34.51brlcadit'd be in some base common library because it's application/domain agnostic
07:34.59homovulgarisI was thinking of adding some more functionality into interval later.. it is a pretty useful concept..
07:35.01brlcadyou only have one lib, so it just gets its own file
07:35.11homovulgarisok
07:35.39homovulgarisafter the minimal implementation of constraint solution search i will work on the stack system for handling constraint representation
07:35.59brlcadif you want to extend something like a BoundingBoxInterval class or something, he'd get his own implementation/header files
07:36.28homovulgarisand when i am stuck with C++ i can add stuff to each of the params/ expand the pc_import etc.
07:36.42homovulgarisok.
07:37.24homovulgarisand sean, regarding the regression testing on the roots change .. i was confused.. am i supposed to do the testing :) ?
07:37.25brlcadyeah, hooking into a given primitive to use params() and your solver in import or prep would be a really good test of the system
07:38.05brlcadhomovulgaris: no, don't worry about that -- focus on libpc
07:38.23brlcadi was going to do the testing
07:38.27homovulgarisi just want to make sure that the whole architecture works for the simple case and then add on features
07:38.36homovulgaristhat was about lipbc
07:38.43brlcadyou're wouldn't necessarily know exactly what to look for anyways
07:39.01brlcadsince it's the portions that relate to ray-trace behaviors that are of concern
07:39.21homovulgarisyeah.. i was thinking about it.. i mean i have 0 knowledge about regression testing.. :) will definitely need to check it out over the year though
07:42.36homovulgarisalso presently the Interval class doesnt have sorting depending on optimal nature.. It just sorts according to < operator definition. So if i need to change it in a derived class i can redefine the < operator or write  a sort function.
07:43.53homovulgariswhich i we will need when we do the solution search selectively over more preferred intervals or to represent preferred solutions
07:44.09brlcadnods
07:44.13brlcadsounds reasonable
07:44.48homovulgarisok... i'd be back after lunch
07:44.57brlcadhappy chowda
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07:50.44shazbotHi, just heard about the google summer of code.. good luck.  Can anyone tell me what the lgpl-ed parts of BRL-cad are?
07:54.34brlcadshazbot: almost the entire source code is lgpl
07:55.11brlcadCOPYING has the details
07:55.57brlcadsource code is lgpl unless it's not ours to license; build system, documentation, and data files are mostly bsd licensed
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08:36.59homovulgarisis back :)
08:37.17homovulgarisloves chicken
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09:24.05mafmallo
09:38.08CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31465 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c:
09:38.08CIA-22BRL-CAD: Added default lights and scanline initializations in view_2init(). Added
09:38.08CIA-22BRL-CAD: scanline freeing in view_end(). Added view_cleanup() function. These functions
09:38.08CIA-22BRL-CAD: are pretty similar to rt's, the big differences will come in rayhit() and in
09:38.08CIA-22BRL-CAD: view_pixel().
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13:17.15CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31466 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (CMakeLists.txt Makefile.am): Add more commands.
13:24.35CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31467 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (11 files): Initial check-in.
13:27.53CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31468 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (erase.c erase_all.c illum.c): Initial check-in.
13:34.45CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31469 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/globals.c: Added FreeSolid.
14:03.08CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31470 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/bigE.c: Converted to use struct ged.
14:04.27CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31471 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ged_private.h: Added more function declarations and a few struct definitions.
14:10.31CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31472 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/draw.c: Added ged_draw_guts() and ged_ev().
14:11.46CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31473 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/dg_obj.c: Temporarily disable the E command.
14:14.45CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31474 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: Added declarations for several functions.
14:15.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31475 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/libged/libged.vcproj: Added several source files.
14:18.00CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31476 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: update how to make the ChangeLog
14:19.09CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31477 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ged_private.h: Added include for time.h
14:21.43CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31478 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ged_private.h: common before system header consistency
14:24.04pacman87morning, all
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14:43.23starseekergo bob go!
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15:43.29CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31479 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (5 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
15:43.30CIA-22BRL-CAD: Proof of concept - the new mged_commands.xml contains a little of the extensive
15:43.30CIA-22BRL-CAD: command appendix in Volume II as a valid stand-alone article, and the
15:43.30CIA-22BRL-CAD: VolumeII.xml here references inside that file to grab the content for inclusion
15:43.31CIA-22BRL-CAD: in its own appendix using XInclude and xpointer. If this technique scales, it
15:43.33CIA-22BRL-CAD: will be possible to break down the volumes into individual valid files that can
15:43.35CIA-22BRL-CAD: be assembled by VolumeII.xml to reproduce (more or less) the original VolumeII
15:53.09CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31480 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/argv.c): Added bu_argv_from_path. bu_copy_argv and bu_copyinsert_argv changed to bu_dup_argv and bu_dupinsert_argv, respectively.
15:54.04CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31481 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/rtif.c: bu_copyinsert_argv changed to bu_dupinsert_argv
15:54.59CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31482 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl: Changed help for dgo_E.
16:42.58CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31483 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/mged/mged_commands.xml: 2 command explanations and examples added, using glossary docbook markup
16:59.14CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31484 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/mged/mged_commands.xml: More prep work for glossary, another example
17:06.40*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@76-10-146-181.dsl.teksavvy.com)
17:10.32pooliobrlcad: Does it make sense that arb8s are rt_arb and not arb8?
17:34.51CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31485 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/History.h: Adding header with copyright and so on; and added missing #endif preventing the program from compiling successfully.
17:42.14brlcadpoolio: probably not
17:42.55brlcadarb8 used to be g_arb.c -- but for consistency they were all made to match their functab name
17:43.20brlcadfor which arb8 actually handles arb8, arb7, arb6, arb5, and arb4
17:49.33poolioah oh well. I've decided to work on arb8 instead of arbn :)
17:49.57poolioYou've already done most the arb8 work...just need to adjust for equivalent vertices
17:55.15brlcadyeah, the arb8 nmg routine is already in brep form
17:55.28brlcadnotes a distinct lack of commits if progress is being made :)
17:56.50pooliobrlcad: so calling rt_arb_tess() is probably a good idea here?
17:57.13brlcadup to you :)
17:57.26poolioAlso, there are a few places where primites are mentioned as say, "g_arb.c" ... should those be changed to arb8.c?
17:57.26brlcadif you just end up with nearly the same logic, probably
17:57.35brlcadsure
17:58.00poolioAh k, I will commit when it compiles :)
17:58.31brlcadeven better would be to have one "structure" routine for brep/nurb/tess if they're basically the same
17:59.37poolioas in something that went from NMG -> brep?
18:00.47poolioAh, the one big question I still haven't resolved is how to properly iterate over elements of the NMG. It looks like repeatedly calling the GET routines does it?
18:01.29brlcadsomething like that -- basically just so there's not two or three copies of logic that do effectively the same thing
18:01.56brlcadmm, I forget how to deal with nmgs
18:02.04brlcadit involves loops
18:02.08brlcadlots of loops
18:02.44poolioah hmm, I couldn't find anywhere in the code where they repeatedly called GET, but I didn't see any other way to really access them
18:03.31brlcadalmost all the converters iterate over nmgs, could check their code out in src/conv
18:03.37poolioah, thanks
18:04.06brlcadthe E and ev commands too
18:04.45poolioAh hey, I see...it's all fun linked list goodness :)
18:06.00brlcadyep
18:11.31mafmbrlcad: so should I commit all the code of my libraries to src/other of my module, right?
18:12.00brlcadmafm: you mean the three dependencies?
18:12.09mafm4
18:12.19brlcadoh? who's number 4?
18:12.19mafmogre, ois, mocha, rbgui
18:12.28brlcadah, ois isn't part of ogre?
18:12.49brlcadbut yeah, to answer your question
18:12.49mafmthey decided to remove input support from OGRE about 2 years ago
18:13.10brlcadthe first commit should be a clean upstream
18:13.15brlcadi.e. no patches/mods
18:13.19brlcadthen commit the mods
18:13.35brlcadso it'll be easier to extract/reapply later if needed as well as to see what changes there are
18:14.08mafmI got a tarball for OIS, but for OGRE has to be some specific revision of the trunk that happened to work a while ago -- today's isn't even compiling :D
18:17.20brlcadawesome
18:17.32brlcadany upstream revision, even from svn/cvs/git/whatever is fine
18:17.55brlcadjust annotate their revision in the commit message (e.g. from upstream ogre svn repository, r12345)
18:28.15CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31486 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ (. Makefile): Commiting other/ subdir and the Makefile
18:29.09CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31487 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
18:29.09CIA-22BRL-CAD: next release is still a fair bit away given the libged instability, but go ahead
18:29.09CIA-22BRL-CAD: and annotate some of the most pressing issues for the next release as testing
18:29.09CIA-22BRL-CAD: mged, verifying fast4-g for ajem, and fixing the bug tom browder just reported
18:29.09CIA-22BRL-CAD: about the windows installer
18:32.40CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31488 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: note that dawn added a -c option to the loop command so you can now iterate over characters as well as numbers. makes loop even more similar to the old bsd 'jot' command, but with a better name.
18:36.47brlcadhomovulgaris: fyi, your r31454 commit blew away my changes
18:37.12mafmsigh, propsets...
18:37.26brlcadmafm: sup?
18:42.59mafmit's missing like 30 propsets only in ois/ :)
18:46.02mafmhmm, scripts are text/plain, right? xml have to be text/xml or can be text/plain too?
18:46.52starseekerfeels mafm's pain
18:47.02starseekerxml should probably be text/xml
18:48.09mafmin my case they don't even name the file .xml
18:48.26mafmit's some random msvc/mac stuff :P
18:55.12brlcadheh
18:55.45brlcadtext/plain or test/xml is fine for their stuff
18:55.51brlcadthey don't matter as much as our stuff
18:56.41mafmhmmm, and OGRE now doesn't want to build with the old version either, great >:|
18:57.30mafmsvn propset svn:eol-style native ois/src/linux/LinuxKeyboard.cpp
18:57.30mafmsvn: File 'ois/src/linux/LinuxKeyboard.cpp' has inconsistent newlines
18:57.30mafmsvn: Inconsistent line ending style
18:57.56alex_jonirun dos2unix on it
18:58.25mafmit seems so, now works :)
19:03.10CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31489 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ois/ (155 files in 29 dirs): Commiting OIS (Object-Oriented Input System) from tarball v1.2.0, no patches needed
19:03.27mafmyay, at last
19:19.48mafmnow for OGRE it'll need a few iterations and many minutes of transmissions, I go to watch the football match to the public square
19:19.52mafm:D
19:20.25mafmmaybe I won't come back if it's too late, so see you tomorrow then
19:23.53*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-94-137.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:25.23pooliobrlcad: Is there a way to get a list of all vertices in an NMG model? The only way I can think of doing it is going through all the vertexuses
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19:26.30CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31490 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (ged.c how.c set_transparency.c tree.c): Initial check-in.
19:28.35CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31491 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/ged.h src/libged/qray.c): Changed signature of ged_init_qray(). Added declaration of ged_free_qray.
19:29.53CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31492 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/nirt.c: Mods related to signature change of ged_qray_data_to_vlist.
19:31.52CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31493 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/ (mged.sh mged.tr): renamed to .sh since it's a shell script archive
19:31.58CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31494 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/nirt.c: Oops! Forgot to change the usage :-).
19:47.42CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31495 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ged.c: Fix miscellaneous descrepancies. Note - this has still not been tested.
19:51.25*** join/#brlcad madant (n=homovulg@202.63.233.61)
19:53.36CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31496 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (nirt.c qray.c): After actually compiling and noticing the need for ged_wdbp->dbip the ged_qray_data_to_vlist function has been changed back to using a struct ged.
19:55.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31497 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/Makefile.am: mged.tr was renamed to mged.sh
20:18.38brlcadmadant: fyi, your r31454 commit blew away my changes .. (if you missed the earlier note)
20:22.48PrezKennedywhy arent you partying??
20:23.49*** join/#brlcad homovulgaris (n=homovulg@202.63.233.61)
20:23.58CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31498 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): added wdb_init()
20:27.31homovulgarisbrlcad: sorry.. u mean the ones in solver_test.c ?
20:28.22*** part/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@76-10-146-181.dsl.teksavvy.com)
20:29.06homovulgaristhe code indentation right ? hmm.. wait or was it pc_test.. yikes sorry there was a conflict i guess i resolved it wrongly
20:29.55homovulgarisbut i didnt commit that in 31454 .. argh.. am confused ..
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080620

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080620

00:03.23*** join/#brlcad homovulgaris (n=homovulg@202.63.233.61)
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00:38.21*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.51.90)
00:38.31andrecastelohey ``Erik, are you there?
00:38.50*** join/#brlcad homovulgaris (n=homovulg@202.63.233.61)
00:54.41andrecastelobrlcad: are you there?
01:05.24*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
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01:31.47andrecastelohey brlcad I'll need to be out of town for the next 10 or so days, I'll be back by 29th june
01:46.36PrezKennedywe got ourselves a runaway!!
02:16.28*** join/#brlcad homovulgaris (n=homovulg@202.63.233.61)
02:16.44brlcadyowsa!
02:17.06brlcadthat's not much of a short notice unless I'm forgetting him mentioning it earlier, hopefully he told erik
02:18.41brlcadhomovulgaris: it was a variety of changes including ws, header fixes, and removal of using
02:18.53brlcadyou can reapply my changes using svn merge
02:19.26brlcadmerge the revisions I applied (fortunatly they were all together so you can just give the range)
02:24.03pooliobrlcad: any way to get all vertices in an NMG? I'm about to write a nasty hack to mark which vertices i've already added to the brep but was hoping there was an easier way
02:27.46brlcadpoolio: nmg_visit(), set the vis_vertex callback
02:28.31brlcad(iirc)
02:40.12CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31499 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: annotate that Timothy Van Ruitenbeek fixed a bug in the ehy primitive where it's curve() callback was inexplicably clobbering the computed curvature value. he clobbered the clobbering.
02:40.31pacman87:)
02:50.08CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31500 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: for format compatibility, rtarea needs to have the cpa values in their own section otherwise it's going to break some other tools that parse the output. (the cpa values are also coincidentally wrong atm)
04:08.01yukonbobhello, cadheads
04:08.40pacman87howdy, yukonbob
04:08.47poolioahoy yukonbob, pacman87
04:08.57yukonbobhey, it's a party
04:23.35CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31501 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING:
04:23.35CIA-22BRL-CAD: prompted by sf bug report 1998145 by tom browder, document a standardized naming
04:23.35CIA-22BRL-CAD: scheme for source and binary releases so that our filenames can be more
04:23.35CIA-22BRL-CAD: consistent. Basically, still use brlcad-version.extension for source
04:23.35CIA-22BRL-CAD: distributions, but consistently using
04:23.38CIA-22BRL-CAD: BRL-CAD_version[_optional_other_stuff].extension for binary releases.
04:23.48brlcadhowdy yukonbob
04:24.22yukonbobhey brlcad -- how's it going?
04:26.26brlcadpretty good
04:26.39brlcadreally looking forward to a nice long weekend of coding
04:27.15brlcadhas been distracted away from attending to his code gardens
04:27.32yukonbobtries to decipher that last sentence.
04:32.06*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=timothy@71.170.63.120)
04:37.34yukonbobhas a few projects that need attention too...
04:38.14yukonbobgets ready to hit hay -- this week has been too busy :P
04:41.08brlcadcya through the ethermorning
04:45.11*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=timothy@71.170.63.120)
04:45.24pacman87so apparently my gfx card doesn't like being underclocked
04:48.00CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31502 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs):
04:48.00CIA-22BRL-CAD: make the binary build targets conform to the newly documented filename
04:48.00CIA-22BRL-CAD: convention of using BRL-CAD_ for the prefix instead of BRL-CAD- which lets us
04:48.00CIA-22BRL-CAD: drop the .bin extension convention. (source dists use lower, binaries use upper)
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07:58.56CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31503 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: added who.c
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09:51.21*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
09:53.49mafm'lo
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10:43.32mafmbrlcad: I keep having problems with the mime types :(
11:07.05d_rossbergmafm: what kind of problems?
11:08.19mafmI have to commit whole OGRE source, and it gives many failures, and the roundtrip is quite high
11:08.45mafmand then sometimes it gives strange errors like .sh not being accepted as application/x-sh
11:09.29mafmbecause of some binary properties, I can't recall the exact error now
11:10.41d_rossbergi would recommend text/x-sh as mime type for the shell scripts
11:11.23d_rossbergthe is what brlcad did in the brlcad trunk
11:11.28mafmwell, that's what I tried, but it gives an error... I'll show you after this rountrip finishes
11:12.25d_rossbergyou probable need the svn:eol-style native too
11:16.05mafmsvn: File 'ogre/SDK/Win32/prepsdkbuild.sh' has binary mime type property
11:18.18d_rossberg... maybe i have to check out this to see ...
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11:21.40mafmI think that it's that I have to *remove* the eol-style property, not being a text/*
11:22.55d_rossbergi don't think so, a shell script isn't binary, so could you remove the binary property?
11:23.15mafmwell, probably being application/* considers it a binary file
11:23.35d_rossbergBTW: the ogre isn't in the brlcad repository yet (?)
11:23.43mafmimages and the rest of applications don't have end-of-line
11:24.25mafmand mime-types are a bit inconsistent anyway: it's application/x-sh, but text/x-python...
11:24.28mafmnope it's not
11:25.00d_rossbergthe shell scripts in brlcad's main trunk are all text/x-sh
11:25.13mafmtext? hmm
11:25.16d_rossbergtherefore this should work (and be ok too)
11:25.33d_rossbergyes: text/x-sh
11:25.51d_rossbergwith svn:eol-style: native
11:26.21brlcadyeah, shouldn't use application/ for anything
11:26.26brlcadbinary types won't diff
11:26.37mafmapplication/x-sh                                sh
11:26.44mafmapplication/x-shellscript
11:26.51brlcadif you can read it with a text editor, it should be text/something
11:26.51mafmtext/x-sh                                       sh
11:27.07mafmright, I was using the 1st one
11:27.11brlcadmafm: to svn application/* means handle the fine as binary
11:27.19brlcads/fine/file/
11:27.39mafmI see
11:28.51brlcadshould really only be using mime types text/* unless it's known image/video data
11:29.33mafmthere are lots of crap in here really
11:30.48mafmrtf, in example
11:32.47mafmsuo, which no idea of what means
11:33.04d_rossbergwhat's the problem with rtf? this is a simple text file too
11:36.20mafmtext or application? it has both again
11:36.37brlcad07:26 <@brlcad> if you can read it with a text editor, it should be text/something
11:36.46brlcadtext/plain if you don't know
11:36.54brlcador as a reasonable default
11:37.25mafmnever read a RTF since I was in windows, I think :)
11:37.51mafmwhat about DDS? is there a default image binary type, like octect-stream for applications?
11:41.25brlcadyeah, just use application/octet-stream
11:42.57mafm.xcf (GIMP native format) is application/x-xcf? I have that one in my mime-types, but I think that it should be image/
11:43.21mafmand in google I can find image/xcf
11:43.56brlcadall of the x- types are basically made up
11:44.09brlcadno different than just using application/octet-stream
11:44.10clock_application/x-another-obscure-x-type
11:44.52clock_or application/x-put-the-name-of-your-favourite-proprietary-windows-program-here
11:45.54mafmmeh
11:46.51brlcadmafm: basically/especially for all of the src/other codes, if you don't know it or see it, just stick to text/plain and application/octet-stream (preferring text/plain unless you can't read it with a text editor)
12:04.23*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-071-045-101.pools.arcor-ip.net)
12:39.26starseekermafm:  I would suggest commiting it in pieces to reduce the roundtrip time, if you're still working on mime issues (unless brlcad wants OGRE uploaded as a unit)
12:53.36starseekerwow - the tex mged manual is over 250 pages
12:53.37brlcadmostly just important to have a clear revision before patches are applied
12:54.17starseekermakes pdf and txt versions so he can use it at work...
12:59.39starseekerflinches at the size of the png images for volII
13:00.23starseekerbrlcad:  Maybe it would be a better idea to have the docbook live in its own tree rather than inside the brlcad tree?
13:06.39mafmI think that it would be better to commit in one chunk
13:07.27mafmand there are no clear ways to separate the files anyway
13:07.27mafmthey're spead evenly through the code
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13:23.12brlcadthinks mafm might like to learn how to use 'find'
13:24.52brlcadexample: find . -name \*.rtf -exec svn propset svn:mime-type text/plain {} \;
13:25.11brlcador: find . -name \*.rtf -exec svn propset svn:mime-type text/plain {} \; -exec svn propset svn:eol-style native {} \;  to set both at the same time
13:25.33brlcadi.e. that finds rtf files in the current subdir recursively applying the mime-types
13:26.10brlcadother variations, find . -name whatever -not -regex '.*svn.*' ...  to ignore the svn dir contents
13:30.39mafmyes, I know, I already do that
13:35.39mafmthe thing is that there are dozens of different extensions, many of them completely custom or unknown to me at the very least
13:35.48mafm800+ files to go now :)
13:39.20mafmapplication/x-msdos-program                     com exe bat dll
13:39.29mafmbat should be text/plain or this?
13:40.20mafmI know of the viewable-in-your-editor, but it's the only entry which applies
13:50.24prasad1arrrr
14:15.59brlcadtext/plain
14:16.39brlcadmafm: eh, you're not using the sample subversion config file?
14:17.05brlcadthat has bat, com, exe, dll, ...
14:18.03mafmI copied many entries, but I think that I commented most of them because it was causing me some problem
14:18.23brlcadoookay..
14:18.26mafmyou know... things like CEGUI have totally made up filename extensions
14:18.35mafm.font, .config, .scheme....
14:18.41mafm.layout
14:18.46mafmall of them being XML files
14:19.39mafmand Ogre includes dozens of things like that: .def, .fontdef, nsh, nsi, .program, .material, ms, ....
14:20.02mafmsome of them being text, other xml, other binary, sometimes with proper extension :)
14:21.07brlcadnsi also in the list :)
14:21.29mafmbut my favourites are: ogre/Docs/src/MaterialScriptCopy.inc
14:21.38mafmogre/Docs/src/sm-redesign/sm-redesign/cpp_includes
14:21.48mafmogre/Docs/src/umldocs/128095
14:22.01brlcadnods, not unheard of
14:22.10mafmogre/Mac/Samples/plist/CelShading-Info.plist
14:22.14brlcadi prefer to keep them as .c for includes myself
14:22.32brlcadplist is a standard file format
14:23.32mafmI guess that for Mac only?
14:24.38brlcadyeah, Mac OS X specific
14:30.57mafmyou have it defined without eol-style
14:31.13mafmand as text/plain
14:36.02brlcadI think that was because it depended on what the project intent was
14:36.42brlcadshould be native for most
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14:52.47*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=timothy@71.170.63.120)
14:55.15CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31504 10/brlcad/trunk/ (AUTHORS src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_light.h):
14:55.15CIA-22BRL-CAD: apply tom browder's sf patch 1998134 (Eliminate Warnings from g++ for
14:55.15CIA-22BRL-CAD: opennurbs_light.h) even though we usually leave src/other alone. it's his first
14:55.15CIA-22BRL-CAD: patch. thank him in authorship anyways as he's had several other interactions
14:55.15CIA-22BRL-CAD: filing bug reports and feature requests.
15:01.46brlcadhowdy pacman87 !
15:01.54pacman87hi brlcad
15:02.09brlcaddoes a happy weekend dance
15:03.29CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31505 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: tom's full name
15:07.23mafmdoes a sleepy after-lunch danczzzzzzz zzz zzzzzzzz
15:12.30mafmyay, 30 files to go
15:33.43brlcadyay
15:39.36brlcadnotes that today is day 26 of 85 for GSoC .. this weekend will be 1/3rd through
15:40.50prasad1dicaprio starring in atari movie as nolan bushnell
15:41.47pooliobrlcad: it's not the weekend yet :P
15:48.04CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31506 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ogre/ (3176 files in 492 dirs): Commiting OGRE from upstream trunk r7565, no patches needed
15:49.25brlcadwoot
15:49.28brlcad~mafm++
15:59.37mafmlol
16:04.33mafm39 minutes to commit
16:04.34mafmnot bad
16:04.54brlcadheh, nice
16:05.25brlcadupdates
16:16.40mafmWith mocha, only two patches (that I got from a RPM file) are needed
16:17.04mafmincluding a header and forward declarating templates or something like that
16:17.23mafmand then I wrote a pkg-config file that I put directly into the destination
16:18.51mafmnow, what occurs to me is that I could add the patches, my file; and add a script to apply the patches before compiling it, and copying the file directly after that
16:18.59mafmdoes it sound ok?
16:19.12mafm(with RBGui the situation is more or less the same)
16:20.35brlcadhm
16:21.00brlcadwell, that'd certainly be one way
16:21.11brlcadif that's what you want to do, go for it
16:21.29brlcadI'd probably just apply the changes myself, but it's no more or less effort I think
16:21.55brlcadrather less immedate, but you have to re-find the patch later and reapply if there's an update, so it evens out
16:22.07brlcadvs making a script that continues to work through updates
16:23.11mafmI see
16:23.28mafmI thought that you wanted to have the patches separated
16:23.50mafmindeed applying directly is less cumbersome for maintenance
16:25.28brlcadnope
16:25.35brlcadseparate commits
16:25.37brlcadyes
16:25.50brlcadbut doesn't need to be preserved as a separate file
16:26.33brlcadwe can regenerate the patch if we can find the revisions in the svn log for before/after
16:26.52brlcadthat was the reasons to commit pristine, then commit the patch that makes it work
16:26.59brlcadthat can be easily recovered
16:27.25mafmI see
16:27.46mafmhowever, I don't know what's the proper way to create the .pc file -- do you have experience with that?
16:28.17mafm(you as in plural :) )
16:29.55brlcadyou mean like these: http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/misc/pkgconfig/
16:30.59brlcadyou'd usually tie them to the build system, the brlcad module's are tied to autoconf
16:32.00mafmhmm
16:32.13mafmso you maintain it independently from the source of the package?
16:32.45brlcadque?
16:33.35brlcadcould put the files anywhere really, but for the brlcad module, all build-related files are in misc
16:33.49mafmI mean that it's not "inside" the dir of each library, but instead in a common place
16:33.53mafmwhat about the external packages, src/other, you don't create .pc files for them?
16:34.08brlcadthey could have been in the dir, same difference
16:34.55brlcadjust organizationally, most "extra" files are put in misc so that source really is just the sources and whatever is exactly needed to compile them
16:35.12brlcad(i.e. the CMakeLists.txt and/or Makefile.am files)
16:40.25CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31507 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/mocha/ (126 files in 7 dirs): Importing Mocha (helper library for RBGui, from the same authors), v0.1.3
16:42.47CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31508 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): code reorganization in libpc : division of previous pc_solver.h into pcInterval.h and pcVariable.h; ws, license cleaning, and comment modification
16:44.30mafm~homovulgaris++ \o/
16:48.16mafmwhat does that syntax mean btw, is it something for the bot?
16:48.33brlcad~karma mafm
16:48.33ibotmafm has karma of 2
16:48.58brlcadit's a simple "karma" system where you can show that you like/dislike something/someone
16:49.35mafmlol
16:49.36brlcadpretty much pointless as a "system", but it's useful for saying "yay" and fun to watch the numbers accummulate
16:49.44mafm~karma brlcad
16:49.44ibotbrlcad has karma of 1
16:49.50brlcadmine is hard-coded :)
16:50.08mafm:D
16:50.10mafmwhy?
16:50.10brlcad~karma learner
16:50.10ibotlearner has karma of 98
16:50.14CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31509 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (8 files in 4 dirs): Start breaking Volume II out into individual lessons, begin adding graphics back in.
16:50.24brlcadoh, just Tim having some fun
16:50.28brlcad(ibot's maintainer)
16:50.38starseeker~karma starseeker
16:50.38ibotstarseeker has neutral karma
16:50.43starseekerheh
16:50.48brlcad~starseeker++
16:51.33poolio~karma ibot
16:51.33ibotibot has karma of 24
16:52.11starseekernotes that breaking up VolII makes checking the markup more managable
16:56.21starseekerheh - brlcad, once unicode support becomes more universal you should hack your ibot karma to return an infinity symbol
16:56.52brlcad~unicode
16:56.53ibotfrom memory, unicode is http://qpe.sourceforge.net/packages/ipaq/qpf-cyberbit-120-50-t10_2.3.0-3_arm.ipk or http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/bedic/unifont_160_50_t10.qpf?download, or something ibot doesn't get
16:56.56brlcadaw
16:57.24brlcad~color
16:57.24ibot13C12O5L8O9R6!
16:59.14archivistI have seeded karma in my bot and a self karma test for one user!
17:02.58CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31510 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/mocha/Include/Mocha/ (Compressor.h Stream.h): Patches needed to compile Mocha on GCC 4.x in GNU/Linux systems, at least -- grabbed from RPM by Matt Williams <matt@milliams.com>
17:03.38brlcadwoot
17:03.40mafmcan you please tell me what's the url you're using with svn info?
17:03.49brlcadtis a day of good progress :)
17:04.21brlcadsame as the repository url
17:04.34CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31511 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/lessons/mged/creating_primitive_shapes.xml: tweak output formatting to better match book
17:04.43brlcadhttp://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net
17:05.19mafmmmm
17:05.37mafmI switched to https, for security
17:06.03mafmbut I'm wondering if it's asking for my password for being with http instead of svn+ssh, as other repositories that I have
17:08.22brlcadoh, you actually meant "svn info"?
17:09.00brlcadI meant that http just for web browsing for info
17:09.16brlcadusual checkout would be
17:09.19brlcad~cadsvn
17:09.19ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
17:09.51brlcadso for your module, https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/rt^3/trunk rt^3
17:10.37brlcadsourceforge has pretty extensive docs on the setup and protocols you can use
17:12.11prasad1when's the next siggraph sean
17:13.18brlcadthis year :P
17:13.50mafmyep, but if you are also using https and you can use ssh-keys, then it's not a problem of me alone using this protocol
17:14.04prasad1i wonder if we'll have a booth
17:14.21prasad1trying to weasel my way into that trip; if it happens
17:14.25prasad1:D
17:21.17``Erik~karma ``Erik
17:21.17ibot``erik has karma of 3
17:21.23``Erik~karma dogma
17:21.23ibotdogma has neutral karma
17:22.20``Erikandre sent me a message earlier in the week that he would be away, I was afk so was unable to respond at the time
17:23.10``Erikshakes fist at build error in src/libpg/ (something is messed up on my end, it's looking for .c files when the SOURCES list .cpp files)
17:23.14brlcadk, that's good to know
17:23.26brlcad``Erik: that's an automake stupidity
17:23.45brlcadit was .c and changed to cpp I believe, and the .deps dir still has the old dependency
17:24.06``Erikheh, nice.
17:24.26brlcadyou can edit the .deps/ Plo file or reconfigure with dependency tracking disabled, or distclean
17:24.32``Erikjust did
17:24.35``Erikworks now
17:25.15CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31512 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/rbgui/ (234 files in 28 dirs): Importing RBGui (GUI library for OpenGL), v0.1.3
17:25.52``Erikreads about MAGI a little O.o
17:28.31mafmoh the irony -- $ dos2unix linux.diff
17:29.07``Erikall your line endings are belong to me
17:33.43mafmthe patch wouldn't apply just because of the line endings :)
17:37.17CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31513 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/rbgui/Gui/ (18 files in 11 dirs): Patches needed to compile RBGui on GCC 4.x in GNU/Linux systems, at least -- grabbed from RPM by Matt Williams <matt@milliams.com>
17:52.11CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31514 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/rbgui/Gui/Source/PosixPlatformManager.cpp:
17:52.11CIA-22BRL-CAD: My patch (might I say quick and DIRTY hack instead?) to get keyboard autorepeat
17:52.11CIA-22BRL-CAD: working inside RBGui. I tried to contact RBGui guys so it's done properly
17:52.11CIA-22BRL-CAD: upstream, along with the other patches needed (I offered myself as maintainer,
17:52.12CIA-22BRL-CAD: so to speak), but proper implementation for this kind of things would be
17:52.14CIA-22BRL-CAD: probably after GSoC period -- the project is demanding enough.
17:57.44CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31515 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: annotate tom's ManTech SRS Technologies, Inc. affiliation too since that relates to the ajem-centric contributions
18:00.02mafmbrlcad: you might want to try this thing
18:00.08mafmit'll probably give some error :)
18:03.05brlcadI most certainly do  :)
18:03.14brlcadare the deps hooked into the build somehow?
18:03.41brlcador should I jump into each and try to get them to build?
18:03.53brlcadi saw you had a writeup somewhere
18:03.57mafmnot properly hooked, they're just preliminary instructions
18:04.19brlcadk
18:04.39``Erikhum, now opennurbs fails to build for me :D
18:05.10mafmcommiting the instructions, it was missing
18:06.06CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31516 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ (Makefile Mocha.pc RBGui.pc): Preliminary support for building external libraries, not working yet (it gives instructions on how to do it, but probably people will get some errors)
18:06.06mafmbasically: you go to src/other
18:06.42mafmeeeeek, my Makefile is not working >_<
18:08.11mafmshouldn't this be calling the dependencies in place? all: ogre ois mocha rbgui
18:13.00CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31517 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/lessons/mged/ (22 files in 2 dirs): Add lesson #2 - learning viewing options
18:13.31brlcadupdates
18:13.47CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31518 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/book/tutorial_series/VolumeII.xml: And add the new lesson 2 to the book using xinclude
18:14.41brlcadeww, binary dlls
18:14.55starseekerwhere, rt^3?
18:15.07brlcadapparently in the ogre repo
18:15.13starseekerewww
18:15.18brlcadmafm: you have to declare them as PHONY targets
18:15.28brlcadotherwise it sees the dir and thinks the target is fulfilled
18:16.09brlcadmake is entity-driven not rule-driven
18:18.49mafmI see
18:19.10mafmwrote some Makefiles sometimes, but they were very straightforward
18:19.40mafmprefers Jam or now CMake, autotools irritates me
18:22.12CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31519 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/Makefile: Fix Makefile so it actually works as intended -- even if it's only printing how to build libraries at the moment
18:24.07mafmbrlcad: so did you get the instructions right?
18:24.14mafmcd to src/other; type make
18:24.37mafmtype make "library" to make each one of them -- but instead of making, at the moment just tells you the chain of commands
18:25.21mafmas you'll see, Mocha and RBGui are cluncky in that sense (probably they were "extirped" from a bigger repository, and just put some building system quickly)
18:26.54mafmand then, after having the libraries installed, go to some new build dir (inside src/g3d for example) and type something like
18:26.58mafm$ cmake .. && make -s && su -c "make -s install"
18:29.42mafmanyway brlcad, I have to go now because I have friends who came to visit me
18:29.53mafmand thus I probably won't be around during weekend
18:30.22mafmbut I'd like you to write me an email with the problems (or use the wiki, etc) if you run into problems
18:30.32mafmso you don't forget about them by monday :)
18:31.07mafmI have to go now, take care folks :)
18:34.05brlcadwaves
18:55.44PrezKennedywaves at brlcad
18:56.01PrezKennedykeepin my brother busy?
19:02.34*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-81-206.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:05.29brlcadPrezKennedy: he's been learning the modeler, making some cool stuff
19:05.33brlcadjust getting started though
19:12.35``Erikheh, woops
19:15.05``Erik'make -j' in src/other/openNURBS makes a bit of a mess if you don't have many free fds and pids handy
19:19.40CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31520 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_light.h: match declaration prototype to definition, fixes build errors on mac and fbsd
19:29.01brlcadoops
19:29.06brlcaddidn't test the build
19:41.38*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-169-187-199.dyn.iinet.net.au)
20:01.59CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31521 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
20:02.00CIA-22BRL-CAD: need to investigate why solids.sh sometimes fails on 64-bit platforms on three
20:02.00CIA-22BRL-CAD: tgc-related pixels. it's floating point fuzz, but where the inconsistency
20:02.00CIA-22BRL-CAD: happens isn't clear. iirc using ieee float or non-optimized builds fixes the
20:02.00CIA-22BRL-CAD: failure.
20:59.43*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
21:07.37CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31522 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Oh yeah, add the glossary component too.
21:07.37starseekerjeez the default xhtml output formatting is boring
21:10.04``Erikuh, good?
21:49.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31523 10/brlcad/trunk/ (TODO misc/nsis/brlcad.nsi):
21:49.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: prompted by sf bug report 1998145 (Windows Installation Version Confusion) by
21:49.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: tom browder, try to make our Windows installer more version-aware. this is
21:49.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: rather untested but the jist is that it will install to
21:49.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: programfiles/BRL-CAD/VERSION now and the uninstall registry keys become
21:49.40CIA-22BRL-CAD: version-specific. we also ensure that the installer filename being created
21:49.42CIA-22BRL-CAD: conforms to the newly established convention.
22:07.49*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5B14E605.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:19.57brlcadthere's be something fun to model and make a tutorial of: http://www.keveney.com/Ross.html
22:20.50brlcadbasically a bunch of cylinders
22:21.06brlcadwould be a good test of the constraint solver later on
22:33.36archivistnice animation, Ive modelled James Watt's parallel motion in solidworks (within a few thou)
22:42.11brlcadoh, cool, he has others: http://www.keveney.com/Engines.html
22:47.42archivistI should rewrite the one I did, was in turbo pascal, it was to simulate the steam pressure in an engine with a strange method of governing
22:48.49archivistthe indicator diagrams showed possible problems, but the simulation proved it is a design error
23:30.17brlcadarchivist: the simulation was or you did an animation/rendering in pascal?
23:30.35archivistdid animation as well
23:32.28archivistI think last time I could run it was win 95
23:55.10*** join/#brlcad Tempy]_ (n=chatzill@adsl-146-133-74.clt.bellsouth.net)
23:56.41Tempy]_I noticed a survey about help on the website and I have an idea if you want a help system where users can reach the creators but there's less danger of the creators being bothered by users who don't try for a solution.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080621

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080621

00:00.26pacman87Tempy]_: what's the idea?
00:01.46pacman87personally, i think a forum-type system would be best, because it'd be easier to search for questions that have already been answered
00:04.28Tempy]_Well, you could add an ajax-based IRC chat system to the website that brings people here.  Then (in the unlikely event people aren't able to get the help they need) the bot spits out a key every 15 minutes, use an ajax based chat system to connect with the developers by typing in 3 keys.  It gives people a route to the developers, guarantee's it won't be used in haste, and forces them to try IRC before they bother the developers.  The
00:05.40Tempy]_Not to mention the forums I have about 9 usernames on because I join with some junk e-mail address, give the answer, and leave forgetting my login information.
00:05.42pacman87the developer are already in the irc channel
00:05.56pacman87devs
00:06.23Tempy]_Yeah... I didn't say it was very useful... if you have a very active developer you don't have to worry about it.
00:06.43pacman87and from what i can see, you're trying to solve a problem that doesnt' exist
00:07.05pacman87ie, not too many people rush in here asking foolish questions
00:07.12``Eriknah, the developers are inactive, and we'd never want anything like http://irc.brlcad.org/ *cough* O:-)
00:07.32pacman87``Erik: yeah, that too
00:07.35Tempy]_It was a survey question on the BRL-cad forum... about how you would rather get help.  I'm saying... anything can be made available from the website... IM, IRC, anything.
00:07.45Tempy]_Sorry... BRL-cad website
00:07.51pacman87IRC already is available
00:08.35pacman87and your idea assumes theres a 'dev' channel and a 'users' channel
00:08.51Tempy]_Ah... you beat me to the punch... by over 2 years it looks like.
00:09.11Tempy]_Well... then I think I'll ask an actual question about the source of BRL-cad.
00:09.55``ErikI think the irc page has been up for mroe than 2 years, the CGI was last updated on that date, I think
00:12.01Tempy]_Cool... CGI... hmm.  The question is... hypothetically... how complicated would it be to pull out the CSG system of BRL-cad... it's... the only open source CSG system I could find.  And... is it even possible?  (I intend to make a level editor for a game engine... well... actually... I intend to fail miserably... but go out giving it everything I have and maybe learn a lot).
00:13.01``Erikit's mostly contained in include and src/libt, might not be too difficult to extract
00:13.31pacman87librt?
00:13.36``Erikhowever; it does not generate new geometry by itself, it modifies the way evaluation... so it might not do what you want it to
00:13.56``Erikyeah, like comb.c for the boolweave
00:14.08Tempy]_*Hallelujah, angels sing... FINALLY!*  .... Um... hmm... what do you mean?
00:14.12``Eriker, bool.c
00:15.23``Erikcsg evaluation only happens in resolving a ray into a partition list. After all the primitives along the ray are evaluated. ray-trace time only.
00:15.48``Erikone of the future projects is NURBS on NURBS evaluation to resolve a new geometry, but that's future work
00:16.41Tempy]_Actually, I'm waiting for swept surfaces from google summer of code.
00:16.58pacman87Tempy]_: that'd be my project :)
00:17.18``Erikwe can do final evaluation via the nmg stuff when you convert CSG geometry into triangles (like in the g-stl or g-adrt convertes)
00:17.45Tempy]_GO PACMAN!!!! I'm rootin for ya!
00:17.50``Erikbut the nmg stuff needs... help :) buggy and not so very well maintained
00:18.16pacman87what are you plannign on doing with sweeps?
00:18.25Tempy]_I wish I could help but I can't even figure out how to do collision detection of swept surfaces unless they're circles in parallel...
00:19.06Tempy]_Oh... mostly learn... and CSG... swept surfaces allow for pipes, roots, and other complex structures.
00:19.30``Erikif you're thinking about using it in game stuff, you probably want to reduce it to triangles for opengl or direct3d, and cd against triangles is well known? :)
00:20.52pacman87right now i'm planning on a single 2d cross section swept along a 3d spline path
00:21.55Tempy]_Well... I'm planning on leaving the CSG layer in the engine for collision detection in the environment.  Collision detection for triangles is well known... but HELL... convex hulls are used to narrow down the areas for collision detection... but detecting if a convex hull hits another one... or if one circle hits a square is a lot simpler... from there it's boolean logic.
00:23.03Tempy]_Aigea Physx can't actually do triangle mesh to triangle mesh collision detection!!!!!!!
00:23.13Tempy]_AT... ALL!!!!
00:28.18Tempy]_Hmm... though it's only really quick and effective for points... which is why it works very well to collide the triangle mesh of the player with the CSG object.
00:29.28``Erikflips over to "code monkeys"
01:15.57CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31524 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/book/ (Makefile.am VolumeII.xml): VolII in docbook is already in better shape - remove this one
02:32.45punkrockgirli'm djing if anyone cares to listen
02:32.49punkrockgirlwww.troubleradio.net
02:33.13punkrockgirli am having some mic issues though so i cant talk... which sucks... but i can take requests, and i have a lot of stuff that isnt on that playlist too
02:33.53punkrockgirland brlcad: i can play that request of yours from last week, i was done by the time you asked for it last week, so let me know if youre listening
03:13.00CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31525 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (3 files in 2 dirs): ids need to be unique for pdf book generation. Default formatting is bad but this does generate a pdf now.
03:14.59starseekeris going to have to resize all the volII images - fop doesn't seem to be using the scaling info.
04:03.51yukonbobpunkrockgirl: how long are you on for?
04:04.37yukonbob(and is the music punk?)
04:04.46yukonbob(or opera?)
04:05.00yukonbobhello, cadheadas
04:05.04yukonbob*cadheads
04:05.41punkrockgirllol
04:05.47punkrockgirlmore punk, less opera
04:05.51punkrockgirlanother hour
04:06.07punkrockgirlactually more rock than anything
04:07.32punkrockgirli have a half correct playlist on the site
04:07.35yukonbobtries to tune in...
04:08.20punkrockgirlsweet :)
04:08.49yukonbobah -- /me adjusts firewall
04:09.07punkrockgirl:P
04:09.17punkrockgirlyoure missing alice in chains
04:10.36yukonbobyou can't shake me 'round now...
04:10.43punkrockgirl:D
04:11.18yukonbobso -- what's the setup that you DJ with?
04:11.26punkrockgirlwell, winamp
04:11.27punkrockgirl:)
04:11.42punkrockgirland a crappy headset that seems to not want to work tonight so i have no mic
04:12.05yukonbobhrmm... and you just stream once to a server to stage it and serve it?
04:12.16punkrockgirlpretty much
04:12.21yukonbobnods
04:13.09punkrockgirlweird it skipped a song
04:13.13punkrockgirlwinamp hates me
04:13.21yukonbobWindows hates everybody
04:13.25punkrockgirli know
04:13.32punkrockgirlerik keeps telling me that
04:13.50yukonbobyou need to code your own OS by hand, in assembler, like everybody in #brlcad has...
04:13.57punkrockgirlhahaha
04:13.58punkrockgirlyeah
04:14.06punkrockgirli'll get on that
04:14.22punkrockgirli'm just here to stalk erik :)
04:14.39punkrockgirllol
04:14.40yukonbobwell... don't let me hold you up...
04:15.16punkrockgirl:P
04:15.50yukonbobthis reminds me of Sublime... is it?
04:15.54punkrockgirlactually im here to give you guys good music :)
04:15.56punkrockgirlits phish
04:16.04punkrockgirlthis song is sublime-ish
04:16.11yukonbobmmm -- i'm not a phishhead, but when I hear it, I like it.
04:16.16punkrockgirli could play some sublime
04:16.25yukonbobput on some old punky REM
04:16.32punkrockgirli wish my mic worked *sigh*
04:16.35yukonbobsomething from Reckoning
04:16.42punkrockgirloh, i'll try
04:16.55yukonbobthis is no try. only do, or do not.
04:16.57punkrockgirlmost my rem is on tapes and when i try to find it it doesnt work
04:17.01punkrockgirllol, ok :)
04:17.19yukonbobor something from Document.
04:18.39punkrockgirldamn it wont play my weezer
04:23.19punkrockgirlnot having much rem luck :/
04:23.27punkrockgirli have a playlist on that site
04:26.53yukonbobchecks playlist
04:26.57punkrockgirl:)
04:31.47yukonbobhey -- does that Clutch cowboy bebop have anything to do w/ the Cowboy Bebop cartoon?
04:34.14punkrockgirli believe its from the soundtrack
04:34.40punkrockgirlor not
04:34.42punkrockgirlim not sure
04:34.47punkrockgirlim scared to check lol
04:36.28yukonbobClutch reminds me of Friday night Arts and Crafts; one town where I used to live, on Fridays we'd go over to a friends house, make dinner, drink beer, listen to Clutch and do arts and crafts.
04:37.42punkrockgirlhehehe
04:37.59punkrockgirlsounds awesome
04:38.00punkrockgirl:D
04:38.22punkrockgirlreminds me i need a beer :D  brb
04:41.42punkrockgirl:P
04:42.47punkrockgirlthis isnt very punk
04:42.48punkrockgirl:)
04:44.45yukonbobhey -you've got REM Pretty Persuasion on your list
04:45.13punkrockgirloh
04:45.17punkrockgirl:P ok its next :)
04:47.37yukonbobSTP Interstate Love Song or Sour Girl get votes from me too (STP are great, but their "slow" songs are super-great, imo)
04:48.04yukonbobwhatever -- it's your show... /me needs a beer too
04:48.23yukonbobheh
04:48.50punkrockgirli agree, stp was the first band i saw live
04:48.58punkrockgirlwell, the first good band... ;P
04:49.22yukonbobdoesn't remember who his first band was...
04:49.30yukonbobbut saw REM for Monster
04:50.08yukonbobAlice in Chains at one of the Lollapalooza tours (and Ministry, Ice-T, etc., etc.)
04:50.14punkrockgirlnice
04:50.18yukonbobbig tours like that are the way to see music
04:50.25punkrockgirli never got to see rem or alice in chains
04:50.29punkrockgirli saw ministry
04:50.51punkrockgirlmy stp show was a long time ago, they opened for butthole surfers
04:50.58yukonbobremembers Jesus and Mary Chain were at that Lollapalooza too, and were *SO* loud.
04:51.02punkrockgirllol, nice
04:51.14yukonbobwow stp + bhs -- good show.
04:51.22punkrockgirlyeah it was cool :)
04:51.30yukonbob"Ministry Stole my Hotrod"
04:52.40punkrockgirl;D
04:55.41yukonbobis Tori Amos' Choirgirl Hotel a good album?
04:57.05punkrockgirlall tori amos is good
04:57.21punkrockgirlalthoug i personally like the older ones better
04:57.37punkrockgirlbut thats because i dont get a chance to enjoy it as much as i used to i suppose
04:58.30yukonbobgot into her w/ Little Earthquakes and Under the Pink, and for UtP is a highmark
04:58.48yukonbob*and for me, UtP...
04:59.15punkrockgirlyeah
04:59.26yukonboblol
04:59.32punkrockgirli saw her in concert a bunch
04:59.46yukonbobticky tick tick of a gun.
04:59.52punkrockgirlback when i went to concerts
04:59.56yukonbobhas never seen Tori, but imagines it would be good.
05:00.02punkrockgirlyeah, she was awesome
05:00.13yukonboblives in the Big City again, so should try to take time to see music
05:04.45punkrockgirlgood idea :)
05:05.00punkrockgirllol, there is this guy in my wow guild freaking out from that ministry song
05:05.06punkrockgirlso i'm trying to make him explode
05:06.01punkrockgirlhe must like kenny g
05:09.02punkrockgirlits some poor 17year old kid
05:09.09punkrockgirlwho has never listened to music apparently
05:15.31yukonbobthis really reminds me of buckethead
05:17.06punkrockgirloh
05:17.19punkrockgirlyeah
05:17.24punkrockgirlthey did stuff together
05:17.33yukonbobah -- no wonder, then.
05:17.37punkrockgirl:)
05:59.33*** join/#brlcad aten (n=sashko@74-131-161-181.dhcp.insightbb.com)
06:01.18atenhello, I'm trying t build brl-cas under fedora8. make complains about "undefined reference to `TclReFree"
06:01.29atenam I missing some package?
06:01.42atenerr brl-cad
06:06.29*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
06:18.04yukonbobaten: sounds like error linking in tcl libs
06:18.31yukonbobReFree makes me think regexp, but I doubt it matters about the particulars, Tcl is the issue...
06:19.03yukonbobyou need to make sure you can link against a pre-installed version of Tcl, or that you use the distributed version and link against it...
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08:15.49*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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11:37.03atenyukonbob, uhm... link against it?
11:44.23*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@brmn-4db2e8c3.pool.einsundeins.de)
12:04.15``Erikactually, that's an issue of /usr/include not coming before $(top_srcdir)/src/other/tcl/generic/ in the include path, do a "make clean" and reconfigure with --enable-build-tcl --enable-build-tk
12:04.38``Erikon fedora 8 even, I've only seen that issue on osX so far :/
12:05.11``Erikgrouses some more about tcl shadowing a system header name
12:15.06aten``Erik, thanks, trying
12:23.01*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
12:34.32brlcadpunkrockgirl: sorry I missed the offer, was a busy offline night
13:08.57*** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-169-187-199.dyn.iinet.net.au)
13:27.12brlcadaten: that problem is fixed in the latest svn sources, there's a change you can manually apply, or you can add --enable-all to configure
14:01.56CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31526 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c: photonmap.h required for struct shadework (in light.h)
14:02.32CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31527 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libbu/argv.c libged/erase.c librtserver/rtserver.c): add missing headers
15:41.33*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.207.247)
17:02.46punkrockgirlbrlcad: its ok, i think i'm on again from 7-9 cst tonight, although i'm still having mic issues
17:03.30brlcadaw, no mic :/
17:37.24punkrockgirli know, its lame
17:37.40punkrockgirli need to mess with it, it was working when i played wow but not when i dj'd so im assuming its a winamp issue
18:28.33*** join/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@203-59-26-22.perm.iinet.net.au)
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18:37.56``Erikheh, mute button? :>
18:38.51*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@217-162-110-111.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:45.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03louipc * r31528 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/archlinux/PKGBUILD: Don't strip debugging symbols and keep documentation in Arch Linux package.
19:27.28brlcadlooks like sf.net e-mail is finally unstuck.. flowing in like gravy
19:27.46alex_joninice and slow?
19:28.12brlcadconstant stream, steady n slow
19:28.22brlcadbasically everything on friday
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20:56.24CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31529 10/brlcad/trunk/include/magic.h: change the magic number to PC_CONSTRAINT_INTERNAL_MAGIC to something readable/useful, 'pcim'
20:58.43*** part/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@76-10-146-181.dsl.teksavvy.com)
21:08.18CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31530 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: ws
21:15.33yukonbobhello, cadheads
21:17.34CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31531 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ell/ell.c: use the same parameter names that mged uses (in fact we probably want to refactor edsol to use this)
21:51.00*** join/#brlcad homovulgaris (n=homovulg@202.63.233.61)
21:51.22homovulgarishi all :0
21:51.25homovulgaris:)
21:51.33CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31532 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob added a -C color option to the big E command
21:51.41homovulgarisok my 0 key has problems :P
21:53.04homovulgarisbrlcad: check this out ;) maybe u have seen it already http://student.agh.edu.pl/~kawulak/constrained_value/
21:53.41CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31533 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl: help consistency, the options are independently optional
21:54.14homovulgarisI have been toying with boost graph .. but what i am really looking forward to is a hypergraph system which they don't have.. their ideas in terms of bgl interface is good. but i guess it would probably be better to write a Hypergraph structure similar to their bgl interface
21:54.25brlcadnope! haven't seen that
21:54.50brlcadlooks like a useful library though
21:55.10homovulgarisindeed.. maybe not in our constraint thing.. but kinda cool..
21:55.11brlcadlikes
21:55.38homovulgarisboost had a hypergraph proposal.. didnt proceed i guess..http://www.crystalclearsoftware.com/cgi-bin/boost_wiki/wiki.pl?Google_Summer_Of_Code_2006#hypergraph
21:56.59homovulgarisi am trying to see how their constrained values ideas could fit in my constraint definition system :)
21:57.41homovulgaristhe way in which they generically represent constraints using predicate is neat
21:58.11brlcadI like the callback overrides, similar to other stl containers
21:58.23homovulgarisit just came up for formal review yesterday though.. the boost constrained value library
21:58.44brlcadthat looks like it really could be useful actually
21:58.57brlcadnot just for constraints, but especially for them
21:59.50homovulgarisindeed... :)
22:01.17brlcadyour pc_c_set could return/store/encapsulate a set of constrained<> objects
22:01.50homovulgarisyeah .. implicit constraints should be easy to implement using constrained<> type
22:02.00homovulgarisi am still thinking about the explicit ones
22:02.06brlcadconstraining parameters with given things
22:02.49brlcadthere'd presumably be some set of common constraints needed (like vector > 0)
22:03.59homovulgarisas i see most of the implicit constraints are either domain restricitions like a<vector<b or equality ( vector 1 = vector 2 )
22:04.06brlcador pc_c_sets would still be generic, and get converted to those during processing
22:04.56homovulgarisi was thinking conversion during processing since that would keep c/c++ a little bit segregated
22:05.49brlcadequality, perpendicularity, |length|, yeah, there's probably just a handful
22:06.15brlcadyeah, I was thinking the same, not exposing C++ through the C api
22:07.47homovulgarisbtw .. how would we be incorporating the boost headers in our code structure ?
22:08.05homovulgarisjust add the necessary hpps to a folder ?
22:08.29brlcadsrc/other/boost
22:08.56brlcadthen defining cppflags in configure.ac
22:09.46brlcadlibregex is similar, can follow that logic as an example (REGEX_CPPFLAGS in particular, but a few other checks relate)
22:10.03homovulgarishmm.. and we wont be adding the whole boost library right.. for example if we are using bgl ( boost graph library) do we include only bgl or those bgl hpps which we want ?
22:10.04brlcadI can help with that bit if you get stuck
22:10.14homovulgarisk..
22:11.04brlcadright, boost on the whole is huge, just the portions that are needed (but do include all the portions needed directly or indirectly)
22:11.38homovulgarisyeah basically i was planning to add everything connected via includes
22:11.39brlcadanything in the c++0x subset is easily fair game to include
22:11.58brlcaddo you know if that includes the graphs?
22:13.22homovulgarisi dont think bgl is in c++0x
22:13.40homovulgariseventhough it is quite stable for sometime now
22:13.55brlcad../../../src/libpc/pcVariable.h:36:21: error: pcBasic.h: No such file or directory
22:14.05brlcadprobably missing from Makefile.am
22:14.05homovulgarisand the constrained value has just started undergoing formal review
22:14.11homovulgarisyikes..
22:14.42homovulgarisyeah.. but i added it i thought
22:15.07brlcadwell it's not committed :)
22:15.59brlcadthe other updates that were clobbered by r31454 are still missing too ;)
22:16.45homovulgarisoh.. there were some conflicts.. i manually edited with hand all the files which i changed in r31454.. hmm will check again
22:17.24homovulgarisbasically 31451-31453 right ?
22:17.28brlcadeasiest is probably to svn diff the revisions that preceeded in that dir that day
22:17.36brlcadprobably, something like that
22:17.52brlcadan svn merge should do the trick
22:18.12homovulgarisyeah thats what i did svn diff -r 31454:31451 etc.
22:18.40brlcadreversed range
22:19.03brlcadsomething like 31450:31453
22:19.20brlcadif 51 was the first and 54 the last
22:19.24brlcader, 53
22:19.33homovulgarisoh .. ok :)
22:19.37brlcad54 was yours
22:19.58homovulgarisyeah
22:20.51homovulgarishey sean , i will be taveling home on 27th .. 2200 km train journey :P 36 hours will be out of touch during that time :) leave in advance :)
22:21.06brlcadcool, thanks for letting me know
22:22.06homovulgarisk.. i'll make the Makefile edits + restore 31450-3 and commit and then start adding a bit of boost
22:22.07brlcadtravelled about double that distance across the US a couple years ago just for fun
22:22.18brlcad(by train)
22:22.27homovulgarishehe.. :)
22:22.36brlcadabsolutely beautiful
22:22.45homovulgarisi traveled around 6k km when i was 18 ;)
22:23.02brlcadthose can be separate commits, btw :)
22:23.09brlcadremember, succint more frequent commits
22:23.15homovulgarisok :)
22:23.31brlcadyou probably have a dozen queued up if I had to quess
22:23.36brlcads/quess/guess/
22:25.00homovulgarisyeah.. i was reading about the commits on windows build system and realised i have no idea whatsoever about how it works :)
22:26.00brlcadthere are two types of windows builds in the repository, cmake and msvc (8 and 9)
22:26.14brlcadmsvc files are all in misc
22:26.23brlcadcmake files are distributed, set of CMakeLists.txt
22:26.26homovulgarishmm.. cmake mafm was also planning to use right ? for g3d ?
22:26.30brlcadyeah
22:26.37brlcadhe's got it working
22:27.00homovulgarisoh i will update and check
22:27.09brlcadcmake would potentially be interesting for the whole repository, but it'd be several weeks/months of work to replicate what we have
22:27.32brlcadthe dependencies don't build automatic yet, they take some more effort
22:28.21homovulgarisand sean regarding the posix shell script .. while we do the make arent all of them made to be shell scripts
22:29.17brlcadque?
22:29.31brlcadall of them, who? what?
22:29.35homovulgarisfor example when i was doing solver_test or roots_new_test for example.. make was generating shell scripts.. for debuggin i had to manually do the compilation on commandline
22:29.48brlcadah
22:29.55brlcadlibtool tutorialage needed
22:30.19brlcadlibtool generates wrapper scripts prior to install that ensures the binary running uses the right libraries
22:30.38brlcadthey are just "preinstall" objects
22:30.53homovulgaristhought so.. :)
22:31.03brlcadto debug you can either run make install or run through libtool
22:31.57brlcade.g. to debug:  ./libtool --mode=execute gdb --args src/libpc/solver_test --your --stuff
22:32.22homovulgarishmm.. :) libtool tutorialage needed indeed :)
22:32.23brlcador ../../libtool --mode=execute gdb ./solver_test  etc
22:32.40brlcadotherwise, just install and debug as normal
22:33.39homovulgarisbut solver_test etc. are under no_inst right..
22:33.58brlcadthe scripts basically guarantee in a cross-platform manner that when you run solver_test (or rt or mged, etc) that it's using the uninstalled libraries that are in the source tree, and not some other installed or LD_LIBRARY_PATH library that could otherwise override
22:34.06homovulgaris*noinst
22:35.05brlcadah, then you can't install obviously ;)
22:35.12brlcadthe same library problem holds though
22:35.21homovulgarisyeah i noticed as much.. i mean for example when i was making changes to rt for example make would make the roots_test to use the proper libraries within the make system and not the ones "installed"
22:35.23brlcadyou'd have to make them static to get rid of the wrapper without installing
22:35.45brlcad(-static LDFLAG)
22:37.35homovulgarishmm.. * note to self.. add -O2 or -O3 in the Makefile for optimizing boost
22:37.53homovulgarisk.. i'll get back to my vim :)
22:37.54brlcadoptimization settings are set in configure.ac
22:38.01homovulgarisoh..
22:38.11brlcad--enable-optimized will turn them on (and destroy your ability to debug)
22:38.17brlcadat least effectively
22:38.38homovulgarishmm.. i will check libregex setup
22:39.04brlcadyeah, don't worry about compiler flags.. that should all be golden ;)  you just need a few cpp flags
22:39.04homovulgarisand i still have tcl issues :)
22:39.18brlcadreally?  that was fixed
22:39.28brlcadhave you ran make clean since?
22:39.43brlcadthe symbols would still be there
22:39.54homovulgarislots of times.. :)
22:40.14homovulgarisit is not a make error.. just version compatibility issue
22:40.38brlcadah, not the tclrefree error
22:40.49homovulgarisnopes :)
22:40.50brlcadmged failure
22:40.59homovulgarisyeah
22:41.18brlcadk, *that* is a different issue --enable-all ;)
22:41.53homovulgarisyeah i know.. then i get an ogl_ error.. unable to open .. something.. i will get back ;)
22:42.02brlcad--without-opengl
22:42.48brlcadthat'd be a good one to fix and/or get more info on, it can't readily be debugged without sitting at a box that has the problem
22:43.09homovulgarishmmm.. :)
22:43.10brlcadshould add the info to BUGS
22:43.26brlcad(not the tcl one, the ogl run-time error)
22:44.02homovulgarishmm. k
22:44.34homovulgarisprocedural geometry is awesome :)
22:44.46brlcadindeed
22:44.53homovulgariswho works on it ?
22:45.01brlcadwhat part?
22:45.21brlcadthe src/proc-db examples?
22:45.27brlcador libwdb?
22:45.27homovulgarisyeah
22:45.33homovulgarisproc-db
22:46.20brlcadproc-db is usually something students get to work on after getting through the modeling tutorials, various authors
22:46.28brlcador devs testing out new bits of functionality
22:46.36brlcad(like new primitives)
22:46.41homovulgarisk
22:46.57homovulgarisplans to read more on libtool
22:47.00brlcadbasically just a bunch of random stuff, some way more cool than others
22:47.26brlcadthe new tire procedure that starseeker worked on is pretty snazzy
22:47.37homovulgaris:)
22:47.53homovulgaristhats how i noticed :)
22:48.43brlcadvegitation can be fun if you seed it the right parameters
22:49.38homovulgaristhe one in stryker ICV is from vegitation ?
22:49.38brlcadoh, by the way, did I send you this link?  http://www.langbein.org/research/TAConstraints/
22:50.54homovulgarisErik and twingy were talking about adrt and RISE
22:51.32homovulgarisnope.. checking it out
22:52.23brlcadno, stryker vegitation is from a nearly identical blender script
22:53.13homovulgaristhe presentation is nice: notes on geometric constraint systems
22:53.14brlcadat least in function
22:54.06homovulgarisi hear..with mlt we will have such renders at much less time :)
23:04.43brlcadmm, not sure about "much less time" unless you include the time it takes to tessellate a model (which can be substantial)
23:05.05brlcadit should certainly make it a heck of a lot easier
23:23.01atenbrlcad, tell me about the change please, because ``Erik's advise did not help
23:25.06brlcadaten: edit src/librt/regionfix.c and add "#undef regfree" after all the #include lines
23:26.32atenbrlcad, Done, trying to build. Thanks
23:27.10atenbrlcad, do I have to ise that --enable-all still?
23:27.11brlcadyou may need to rm src/librt/regionfix.lo if it still comes up
23:27.51atenther is no  src/librt/regionfix.lo, I did make clean
23:27.57brlcadi'd recommend it at least until you have a full build -- whether it'll work without it depends on what system libraries you have installed (and versions of them)
23:42.45brlcadtotally awesome, on-line ordering to a couple dozen restaurants in about a 30 mile radius
23:43.07brlcadgets giddy for indian
23:55.19atenbrlcad, sweet! It compiled. installing now. Do you guys ever had a spec file for rpm or something?
23:57.02brlcadoh, there was one the last time we made actual rpms.. about 4 years ago for release 6
23:57.36brlcadwe have a spec file in misc/brlcad.spec .. but the script to build the rpm isn't there
23:57.39brlcadand it's untested
23:57.44brlcadfeel free to fix that problem ;)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080622

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080622

00:07.39atenok, thanks
00:37.10brlcadnp
00:49.41CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31534 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc9/libged/libged.vcproj: sync with vc8 project files, add a slew missing
00:52.44CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31535 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc9/libged/libged.vcproj: contemplated renaming bigE.c to E.c, but reverted (all but this)
00:54.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31536 10/brlcad/trunk/ (11 files in 2 dirs): consistency update, make all libged's argv parameters be declared as arrays of pointers instead of pointers to pointers even if they're used the same
03:08.11CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31537 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Add start of lesson 3
03:26.56CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31538 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Add start of lesson 4
04:13.30starseekerHumm - http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/21/203240
06:19.20*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-92-233.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:27.49CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31539 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (6 files): ws, reverting changes from 31450-31453
07:28.20brlcadwoot
07:36.24brlcadhum, that doesn't look like everything
07:36.38brlcadthat's just a bit of ws
07:42.08homovulgarishuh.. yikes..i double checked it this time.. what were the other modifiications ?
09:23.35*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-169-73-95.dyn.iinet.net.au)
10:45.24*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-071-040-234.pools.arcor-ip.net)
11:03.52*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
11:04.59*** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-169-73-95.dyn.iinet.net.au)
11:11.51*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-071-040-234.pools.arcor-ip.net)
11:49.29CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31540 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (7 files): take two, sanother round of ws and style conformancy changes. try not to wipe these out. ;-)
11:51.27*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.207.247)
11:53.22CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31541 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (pc.h raytrace.h): commend cleanup
12:03.21CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31542 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
12:03.21CIA-22BRL-CAD: I made all platform installers use consistent naming conventions, outlined in
12:03.21CIA-22BRL-CAD: the HACKING file. In particular, the Windows installer is now more
12:03.21CIA-22BRL-CAD: version-aware, installing into a versioned subdir by default (similar to how we
12:03.22CIA-22BRL-CAD: distribute for other platforms) and allowing per-version uninstalls.
12:17.48CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31543 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/ (opennurbs_light.cpp opennurbs_light.h):
12:17.48CIA-22BRL-CAD: (re)apply the intent of the changes prompted by tom browder in sf patch 1998134
12:17.48CIA-22BRL-CAD: (Eliminate Warnings from g++ for opennurbs_light.h) but also making the extra
12:17.48CIA-22BRL-CAD: changes to the cpp file to match. declaring a bool return value as const is
12:17.48CIA-22BRL-CAD: meaningless
12:24.36*** join/#brlcad Mouette (n=root@123-194-167-3.dynamic.kbronet.com.tw)
12:24.55Mouettei had entered
12:27.15brlcadhello Mouette
12:27.23Mouettehihi
12:28.04brlcadI see you were able to upload to anon ftp
12:28.18MouetteMmm
12:28.22brlcador at least are in the process of doing so
12:28.51brlcad25MB and counting .. how big is it?
12:29.03Mouette180MB
12:29.09brlcadheh
12:29.16brlcadthat's one slow upload :)
12:29.51brlcadand a huge dist .. is that compressed?
12:30.01MouetteC'est pas grave,we can wait
12:30.27Mouettei forget compressed it
12:30.30Mouette......
12:31.19brlcadit doesn't need to be, I can make it a .pkg.gz .pkg.bz2
12:31.37Mouetteok,thanks
12:31.50Mouetteand i need you test it
12:32.11brlcadwhere does it install to?
12:32.20Mouettebecause it not be compiled in a pure system
12:32.35brlcadwhat were the configure options?
12:32.43Mouette/opt/Brl-CAD
12:32.50brlcadeep
12:33.05brlcadlower/upper mixed case is a no-no
12:33.31brlcadshould be either 'brlcad' or 'BRL-CAD', not other variations
12:33.51Mouetteok
12:34.39Mouetteneed i remake a pkg file?
12:34.43brlcadplease :)
12:35.01Mouetteok,i stop it
12:35.02brlcadwhat were all of your configure options?
12:35.09Mouetteand re-upload
12:35.13brlcadk
12:35.51brlcadrunning as root .. tsk tsk
12:44.25Mouettewait me,compressing
12:47.01brlcadwhat were all of your configure options?
12:48.21Mouettei don't know your mean. you means the result of "./configure" from source?
12:49.14brlcadDid you just run "./configure" with no options following it?
12:49.32brlcadyou had to have used at least --prefix=/opt/brlcad to change it from /usr/brlcad
12:49.50Mouetteno
12:50.18brlcadthen.. what did you do? :)
12:51.44Mouette--enable-tcl-build --enable-tk-build --enable-itcl-build
12:52.23brlcadhence why I ask, you should use --enable-all --enable-optimized for a platform distribution :)
12:53.17brlcadit's not necessary to redo everything, but something to keep in mind for next time
12:53.29*** join/#brlcad docelic_ (n=docelic@78.134.199.234)
12:53.43brlcadoptimized will give about a 2x performance increase
12:53.59brlcadenable-all helps ensure that there are no external system dependencies in the binaries
12:54.04*** join/#brlcad root_ (n=root@123-194-167-3.dynamic.kbronet.com.tw)
12:55.11brlcadat least none other than major ones like X11 and OpenGL
12:57.22root_need you look config.cache?
12:57.34brlcadnot really
13:01.16root_i don't understand your means. how about X11 and OpenGL?
13:03.02root_after i do ./configure, then make and get some erreurs.
13:03.19root_then i modify some code
13:03.27brlcaddid you not see my preceeding comments?
13:05.26brlcadhttp://paste.bzflag.bz/m3002fc62
13:05.37root_no.
13:08.05root_and then??
13:10.06root_need you my source dir after compiling?
13:10.37*** join/#brlcad piotrnikiel (n=piotrnik@cy243.internetdsl.tpnet.pl)
13:10.52root_sorry,my english is bad, sometimes i don't understand your means
13:10.59CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31544 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl:
13:10.59CIA-22BRL-CAD: increase the column spacing to 25 characters, making a max of 100 wide instead
13:10.59CIA-22BRL-CAD: of 80 .. this is a real shame but stems from the problem that the command names
13:10.59CIA-22BRL-CAD: are way too long on dgo_set_plOutputMode, dgo_set_transparency,
13:10.59CIA-22BRL-CAD: dgo_set_outputHandler, and a few others. increasing the width makes it so you
13:11.03CIA-22BRL-CAD: can iterate over the commands (while messing with default width wrapping)
13:12.14brlcadroot_: and then nothing, just pointing out that next time you should use --enable-all --enable-optimized instead of the -build options you were using
13:13.44root_can't "--enable-all", part of source get erreurs
13:13.57root_sorry i am Mouette
13:14.00brlcadah, that's what you meant
13:14.08brlcadheh, I know
13:14.20brlcadwhat errors?
13:16.24root_let me recompile, because some Makefile context i delete some that compile get erreurs
13:16.26piotrnikielhello, are there any Mac OSX BRL-CAD users?
13:16.40brlcadpiotrnikiel: lots
13:18.20piotrnikielWell, I've got a problem with BRL-CAD, which you probably seen before
13:18.29piotrnikiel.X Error of failed request:  BadRequest (invalid request code or no such operation)
13:18.30piotrnikiel<PROTECTED>
13:18.30piotrnikiel<PROTECTED>
13:18.37root_wait me
13:24.10brlcadpiotrnikiel: yes, bugs in the new X11 update
13:24.22brlcadpiotrnikiel: did you compile yourself or install binary?
13:25.11root_upload finish,and wait me recompile......
13:25.58piotrnikielI installed binary and that's what i got
13:26.02piotrnikielbut i also compiled by myself
13:26.09piotrnikieland
13:26.39brlcadroot_: what are you recompiling?
13:27.15piotrnikielwhen i configure with --enable-optimized it compiles well, but when starting mged, it says that i have tcl8.4 (apple's) and it needs tcl8.5
13:27.18root_rm -rf brlcad dir and restart download source
13:28.00piotrnikielso i installed tcl8.5 from macports, and then it fails to compile
13:28.05brlcadpiotrnikiel: unfortunately, there's not a whole lot that can be done about the 10.5 error at the moment .. it'll be a couple months before a fix is expected
13:28.11brlcadpiotrnikiel: add --enable-all to the build
13:28.19piotrnikielwell, i ve got 10.4 ;)
13:28.25brlcadreally?
13:28.35brlcadnow that's odd
13:29.10piotrnikielso i am today trying various combinations of configure, with aquatk, and with tcl&tk from ports, or from apple, and so on
13:29.11brlcadppc or intel?
13:29.13piotrnikielintel
13:29.49brlcadaquatk is for devs-only, it's not going to work for you
13:30.08piotrnikielok... i didn't know that
13:30.10brlcadneither will using system-installed tcl/tk because you don't have itcl/itk
13:30.34brlcadand even iff you did, it's not a frequently tested configuration on mac
13:31.03brlcadusually mac is tested with enable-all
13:31.42piotrnikielok. i'm now compiling it, and if it fails, I'll try enable-all
13:31.50piotrnikielsince i haven't tried it yet
13:32.17brlcadoh interesting, 129 is direct rendering
13:32.49brlcadyou don't have direct render opengl support for some reason
13:33.00piotrnikielwell FYI if i start your binary with: mged -c
13:33.02piotrnikieland choose X
13:33.05brlcad(you can add --without-opengl to get past that)
13:33.11piotrnikielthen i have the old X-server mged
13:33.28brlcadyeah, that's the main problem
13:33.43brlcadthe ogl driver isn't failing gracefully
13:33.57piotrnikielbut if i start mged -c and run it with ogl, then the "129" error happens
13:34.00brlcadit should automatically fall back to indirect rendering, but decides to abort
13:34.38piotrnikielmy mac is pretty standard Macbook
13:34.45piotrnikieland i never got any problems with opengl
13:35.00piotrnikielbut let my check the --enable-all
13:35.12piotrnikielif it fails then I'll tell you
13:35.17root_this is my config result ( ./configure --enable-all --enable-optimized):
13:35.31brlcadwhat we mean by opengl is not the same as what you probably think it means
13:35.32root_Java Developer Kit support ...........: no
13:35.47root_Build 64-bit release .................: no (32-bit)
13:35.48brlcadit's just a low-level rendering mode for us, no different/additional functionality
13:35.59root_Print verbose compilation warnings ...: no
13:36.09root_Print verbose compilation progress ...: no
13:36.10brlcadroot_: those are fine
13:36.15piotrnikielI thought you mean just the system libraries
13:37.17brlcadit's related, but it's more what we do when that display manager driver is turned on/off
13:37.54brlcadand in this case, there's an additional complexity of going through X11 and through the X OpenGL layer
13:38.54brlcadwe ask the X server for a direct rendering context, normally it either says here you go or sorry can't but here use this indirect one
13:39.05brlcadinstead it's saying just "sorry, goodbye"
13:39.13piotrnikiel;)
13:39.39brlcadeither way, the simplest thing to do is just turn the ogl layer off
13:39.49brlcadyou don't miss anything
13:59.18root_ok,i look the first erreues,and i modify
14:00.51root_in src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_point.cpp
14:01.36brlcadwhat version are you compiling?
14:01.50root_i delete #ifdef HAVE_IEEEFP_H and #else, # include <math.h>, #endif 4lines
14:02.07root_7.12.14
14:02.29root_and continuing
14:03.23brlcadokay
14:03.45brlcadroot_: I suspect they don't get many solaris folks compiling openNURBS
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14:13.26brlcadyay, automatic mged command test
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14:31.51root_the second erreurs,i checking
14:34.55root_in src/libtermio/termio.c 428,439, let me think how i deal with the problem in that time
14:39.46root_add #include <fcntl.h>,#include <sys/types.h> 2 line,ad delete some ifndef.......
14:39.57root_and continuing
14:42.01root_the third erreur appear.
14:43.03piotrnikielgot it, got it ;)
14:43.08piotrnikielthank you sean
14:43.19brlcadpiotrnikiel: glad to hear it!
14:43.20piotrnikielenable-all really sorted everything out well
14:43.44root_in src/adrt/master/,i haven't ability to deal with it, so i modify the Makefile in src/adrt
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14:45.52root_i delete the context "master" in Makefile,Makefile.in,and Makefile.am in src/adrt
14:46.01root_and continuing
14:46.35CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31545 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtermio/termio.c: include fcntl.h for solaris, thx Mouette
14:46.55brlcadroot_: adrt isn't important
15:03.06root_compile finish
15:03.23root_installing and testing it
15:05.25root_in installing,a tcl erreurs,i am dealing with it
15:06.42root_in src/other/tcl/unix/Makefile
15:08.10root_in the Makefile, SHELL=/bin/sh  become /usr/bin/bash
15:09.35root_and src/other/tk/unix/Makefile is also
15:10.21brlcadwe try not to modify anything in src/other
15:10.34brlcadunless it's something that causes a hard failur
15:20.26root_install finish and test it, it look like ok in my machine.
15:20.58root_my process is finish
15:21.27brlcadroot_: if you run "cd /tmp && /opt/bin/benchmark"
15:21.48brlcadwhat does it report at the end?
15:21.53brlcadshould be a number
15:21.55brlcadin a box
15:22.16brlcad(takes about 9 minues to run)
15:22.53root_RT reports the following version information:
15:22.53root_BRL-CAD Release 7.12.4  The BRL-CAD Raytracer RT
15:22.53root_BRL-CAD Release 7.12.4  The BRL-CAD Ray-Tracing Library
15:22.53root_BRL-CAD Release 7.12.4  The BRL-CAD Numerical Computation Library
15:22.53root_BRL-CAD Release 7.12.4  The BRL-CAD Utility Library
15:22.54root_Minimum run time is 3 minutes, 12 seconds
15:22.56root_Maximum run time is 30 minutes
15:22.58root_Estimated   time is 9 minutes, 36 seconds
15:23.04root_Running the BRL-CAD Benchmark tests... please wait ...
15:23.06root_+++++ moss
15:23.08root_Frame  0:     357882 rays   in      1.40 sec =    255252.77 rays/sec (RTFM)
15:23.10root_Frame  1:     715764 rays   in      2.69 sec =    266573.31 rays/sec (RTFM)
15:23.12root_Frame  4:    5726112 rays   in     20.19 sec =    283580.98 rays/sec (RTFM)
15:23.18brlcadeek
15:23.21brlcadnot the whole thing :)
15:23.34brlcadway too much for irc
15:23.47brlcadwait until it finishes
15:24.01root_ok
15:24.11root_and then?
15:25.00brlcadthere will be a #*#*#* box, print the two lines inside
15:25.01root_look the end part?
15:25.14root_ook
15:25.36brlcador "cat summary"
15:30.12root_Output was saved to run-3187-benchmark.log from /tmp
15:30.12root_Benchmark testing complete.
15:30.24root_Benchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 1626
15:30.25root_Logarithmic VGR metric is 3.21  (natural logarithm is 7.39)
15:30.35root_is this?
15:31.49root_is this fine?
15:37.03brlcadthat's it, thanks
15:54.08root_?
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16:42.38``Erikw00t, got my experiment box up
16:43.33brlcadwhich is that?
17:03.49``Erikthe wally world special that I souped up, running fbsd-current
17:04.11``Erikone of the drives was shot which was preventing the entire machine from booting :/
17:04.24``Eriklike, not even trying to post
17:07.28brlcadfinally updates ze fresh meat
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17:50.20CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31546 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c: add an automatic options usage statement to the help and don't ignore invalid options. clean up the usage printing a little bit too.
17:56.27CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31547 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/ (Makefile.am mged.sh):
17:56.27CIA-22BRL-CAD: add a new regression test for mged. it makes sure mged will run, can create a
17:56.27CIA-22BRL-CAD: geometry database, and then evalutes the commands available. for every command
17:56.27CIA-22BRL-CAD: available, it makes sure that it exits, runs successfully without reporting an
17:56.27CIA-22BRL-CAD: error, and has a help/usage statement. this has already unvelieved a few issues
17:56.30CIA-22BRL-CAD: that should get fixed (edcolor kicking off an editor, rt-tools crashing with a
17:56.32CIA-22BRL-CAD: bu_log write error, few commands missing (recent libged changes)).
17:57.04``Erikdoes some more updating on the old machine named 'the new bz'
17:57.12brlcadcool
17:57.27brlcadalmost did that this weekend
17:57.29brlcad*almost*
17:57.39brlcadinstead wanted to get some coding done
17:58.26CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31548 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged.sh: oops, numeric test
17:59.22``ErikI'm just running cvsup, mebbe building world and then doing a portupgrade... no migration tuff
17:59.25``Eriktuff
17:59.26``Erikstuff
17:59.41``Eriksssssssssssssssssstuff. damn s key
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18:47.56CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31549 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: fixed typo
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20:16.54brlcad``Erik: you might like this: http://www.pawfal.org/Software/fluxus/
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00:30.55``Erikinteresting
00:31.22``Erik"and sometimes osx"
02:57.05brlcaddownloaded the osx binary, no go (must be intel me thinks, at a ppc atm)
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09:49.23mafmhallo
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12:14.46CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31550 10/brlcad/trunk/ (1124 files in 80 dirs): Boost (header only include library) initial import, using bcp
12:32.59brlcadheh, wow, that's big for header only :)
12:33.14brlcadinitial import of what?
12:42.27mafmbrlcad: did you have the chance to test the branch
12:42.28mafm?
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13:21.07*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=Timothy@71.170.63.120)
13:27.52pacman87morning, all
13:31.28mafm'allo pacman87 :)
13:36.24d_rossbergmorning pacman97
13:37.54pacman87d_rossberg: i've looked into the sketch primitive, and there's 4 types of segments to deal with: line segment, circular arc, bezier spline, and nurbs
13:40.04pacman87for now, i'm thinking it would be best to limit the order of the splines to be able to solve intersetions analytically
13:40.20d_rossbergright, and in the extrude the nurb isn't implemented, probable because it isn't trivial
13:41.20pacman87so my overall plan is to start with just line segments, and get them working, before moving on the the more complex ones
13:41.23d_rossbergi would say you have to multiply the degree of the sketch with the one of the spline to get the order of the surface
13:41.48pacman87'degree of the sketch'?
13:42.28d_rossbergi mean the degree of the segments (line is 1, arc is 2 etc.)
13:43.09pacman87and the spline is for sweeping
13:43.20pacman87sorry, i'm still just thinking revolve at the moment
13:44.17d_rossbergit depends on where your priorities are, i would start with a degree 2 sketch and degree 2 spline (or revolve)
13:44.31d_rossbergi.e. both build from 3 point beziers
13:45.02pacman87so do you think revolve should only be a subset of sweep?
13:45.35pacman87like how sph is really an ell?
13:45.50d_rossbergyou can reach a revolve effect from a sweep on a circle
13:46.13d_rossberghowever, i like the idea to have a distinct revolve primitive
13:46.38pacman87right, because then i can make revolve-specific performance enhancements
13:46.47pacman87that dont' necessarliy apply to all sweeps
13:48.38CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31551 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/rbgui/Gui/Source/PosixPlatformManager.cpp: Fix for lame error preventing the fix for autorepeat behaviour to work -- the huge amounts of unimportant warnings were masking this.
13:50.19d_rossbergif you once got the revolve you could perhaps develop the sweep from it like: "revolves" along a spline
13:50.28pacman87one problem i see is determine which segments to test for intersection, or to test all of them
13:51.12d_rossbergin a first attempt: all segments
13:52.00pacman87my general plan is to essentially take the 'reverse' of the sweep path, and apply that transformation to the ray, and project the ray onto the 2d sketch surface
13:52.45pacman87ie, if you 'unbend' a revolve, the ray becomes a hyperbola
13:53.56d_rossbergyour plan sounds still good :)
13:54.02pacman87and looking toward sweep, is there already a way to store a 3d spline, or will i have to creat something for that specifically?
13:57.09pacman87should the 3d path spline be created/edited seperately, or inside the sweep only?
13:58.26d_rossbergstore the spline: hard to say, it depends on the spline, there is the bu_list but this may be not optimal
13:58.51pacman87could that be its own primitive, like sketch?
13:59.55pacman87so if you want two parallel sweeps, you specify the same sketch and path, and change the vertex
14:00.30d_rossbergit could be an own primitive but this also means that it is its own live in some sense
14:00.50d_rossberg(3D sketch)
14:01.32d_rossbergyou could get two parallel sweeps by copying the primitive ...
14:02.54pacman87if you copy, and have to edit the path, will those changes affect both?
14:03.13d_rossbergno
14:04.09pacman87and if you wanted that behavior, you could copy the path
14:04.13d_rossbergbut you could add a primitive twice to the geometry with different matrices
14:06.37pacman87what problems do you see with storing the path seperately?
14:07.06d_rossbergbut you have a point there: i would be a nice feature to be able to sweep different shapes along a sweep line
14:07.41d_rossbergwith the sweep path the problem might not be so big:
14:08.24d_rossbergbecause you define it, you may define it in a way you won't get any problems with your sweep primitive
14:09.08d_rossbergi.e. "a 3D sketch has at most degree 2 spline segments"
14:09.58pacman87would there be a practical use for a 3d sketch besides the sweep?
14:11.18d_rossbergi would expect it to have a practical use because the large CAD packages have this
14:12.22pacman87the only thing i remember using 3d sketches for is for sweeps/lofts
14:13.33pacman87but if there are other uses, i'd be better to not restrict the path, and just have a flag for isSweepable
14:14.27d_rossbergthe sketches in BRL-CAD have a "comment" role, but i can't see why these "comments" should be 2D only
14:14.57pacman87wasnt' that on the list of improvements?
14:17.25d_rossbergi don't like the idea with the flag, this would make it possible to destroy the sweeps inadvertently
14:18.22pacman87while editing the path?
14:19.03d_rossbergi'm not sure but could the parametrics/constraint help?
14:19.58pacman87i think the p/c stuff is about physical relationships, and the problem here is with the math behind it all
14:21.02pacman87it's also possible to set the isSweepable flag when you create the path, and require the user to explicitly change it
14:21.10pacman87so if it's set, it doesnt allow changes to break it
14:21.33pacman87but then that becomes close to a whole different primitive
14:21.45pacman87ie, path vs 3dsketch
14:22.32d_rossbergthe is-a relationship works only in one direction
14:23.02pacman87path is a sketch3d
14:23.13d_rossbergright
14:23.16pacman87with additional restrictions
14:25.24d_rossbergan other solution would be to have default replacements for "unknown" segments (e.g. build a spline of line segments from a nurb curve)
14:26.42pacman87using a bezier curve would require fewer segments
14:26.54pacman87and keep the surface curvature better
14:27.35pacman87since i'll have to check each segment in the sketch
14:27.45d_rossbergonly if you have an algorithm for converting a nurb into a bezier spline
14:27.56pacman87true :)
14:29.33pacman87the other issue with is-a is that C doesnt really do inheritance
14:30.22pacman87i suppose it'd be done using the functab
14:31.06d_rossbergyou may get the beziers if you attach the border conditions to the line segments
14:32.06d_rossbergfunctab: this is more an replacement for a switch ... case
14:33.05d_rossbergi.e. switch (object_type) ... case hyp: ...
14:34.14pacman87well, if path just references the sketch3d functions when it doesnt' need to change them, and references its own functions when there are changes
14:38.38d_rossbergthis would only mean you are reusing code but actual you have two diferent primitives
14:39.47pacman87is that a problem?
14:41.45d_rossbergreusing code isn't a problem but it looks like you should care for the path and if there is a 3dsketch it might reuse your code
14:42.51d_rossbergwe would need something like a validator connected to the primitives
14:43.14clock_win 12
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14:45.57pacman87so just get the path working now, and worry about sketch3d later
14:46.07d_rossbergthis validator could be implemented as a new functab method (if this don't go to far away)
14:46.21d_rossbergpath vs. sketch3d: yes
14:46.25pacman87what would be validated?
14:46.34d_rossbergthe primitive
14:46.37pacman87order of sketch and path?
14:47.09d_rossberga validator is a funktion which returns for a primitive true or false
14:47.25d_rossbergtrue if it's ok, false if not
14:47.31pacman87ah, ok
14:48.12d_rossbergi.e. an editor has to call the validator to test the changed primitive
14:48.24pacman87like how primitives do basic checking before prep() and others
14:48.40pacman87but moved to it's own function
14:48.43pacman87make sense
14:48.46pacman87makes*
14:50.56d_rossbergbut in practice it's not so easy e.g. there should be a hint to the user if the validator fails
14:57.59pacman87right
14:58.43pacman87i think i've answered your email question, is there anything else i  missed?
14:59.51pacman87i'll update the wiki for revolve, and create a page for sweep to outline everything
15:06.12d_rossbergthis is what i wanted to ask you for: document your plans for revolve and sweep on the brlcad.org wiki
15:07.09d_rossbergi'm full of hope :)
15:15.45*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
16:15.57CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31552 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (5 files): Adding window which will act as taskbar. Only the skeleton, at the moment.
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16:22.38CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31553 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/GuiTaskbar.h: Fixing doxygen comments.
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17:39.30CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31554 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CMakeLists.txt: Removing debugging messages
17:40.36CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31555 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (17 files in 4 dirs): Add includes and graphics through Lesson 5
17:41.42CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31556 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/lessons/mged/learning_boolean_expressions.xml: Whoopsie, add the xml file as well as the images
17:48.46CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31557 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (8 files):
17:48.46CIA-22BRL-CAD: Introducing Window Base class, so the rest of the windows are derived from it.
17:48.46CIA-22BRL-CAD: This allows to have some operations factored out, and to have lists of windows
17:48.46CIA-22BRL-CAD: present and so on (which is immediately useful for the taskbar, in example).
18:05.28CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31558 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (6 files): Delegating more functionality in the windows base class.
18:08.34mafmbrlcad, are you back?
18:15.19pacman87what's the best (ie, user friendly) way to specify the start/end planes of the revolve?
18:17.46starseekerAre your start/end planes constrained relative to each other?
18:18.18pacman87i know i need the revolve axis (point + vector)
18:18.37pacman87and a way to specify which plane passing though that axis is the start plane
18:20.08pacman87they could be constrained relativly by giving the first plane, and an agnle
18:20.09pacman87angle
18:20.26starseekerHmm - I'd guess for full generality you'd need to specify another vector perpendicular to the revolve axis, but that's just off the cuff
18:20.36pacman87that's what i was thinking too
18:20.46starseekeryes, once the start plane is identified the end plane could be identified by an angle
18:21.03pacman87would you perfer an angle, or a second vector to define the end plane?
18:21.08starseekerangle
18:21.09pacman87ok
18:21.38starseekeryou might optionally take a second vector, if there is a way to work it
18:22.11pacman87i dont' think you can overload 'in'
18:22.53pacman87though i suppose once the p/c is fully integrated with the primitives, you could jsut use that
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18:23.40starseekerwell, you could do like ell1 and ell2
18:24.05starseekerer ell and ell1 rather
18:24.16starseekerhave a sweep and sweep1 primitive
18:24.33pacman87what should i name the revolve?
18:24.35pacman87rev?
18:24.54starseekeriirc, ell and ell1 exist because they take different parameters for the same geometric shape
18:25.33starseekerhmm.   rev is less typing, but extrude uses the full name...
18:25.49pacman87but ext is a filesystem
18:25.59starseekerand rev is revision :-)
18:26.03pacman87right
18:26.17pacman87rvl
18:26.35starseekerIt's a brlcad question, but my sense would be to go ahead and use revolve to keep it consistent with extrude
18:26.49pacman87and sweep instead of swp
18:26.57pacman87swp looks like swap
18:27.18starseekerright - extrude needs a sketch, and so will revolve/sweep yes?
18:27.23pacman87yes
18:28.25pacman87i'll have to specify the point/axis in both the 3D side, and the 2D sketch side
18:28.30starseekerI think pipe is the only non-sketch based primitive with a full name...
18:28.42starseekeryeah, check with brlcad
18:28.44pacman87sketch is too
18:29.06starseekerheh - is sketch sketch based? :-P
18:29.41starseekerprobably not, strictly speaking
18:29.49pacman87no, it doesnt' reference a sketch
18:30.07starseekerMy instinct is to go with full names as being more descriptive, now that we have tab completion
18:30.26starseekeralthough I don't know if that works for primitive type, come to think of it
18:32.52CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31559 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiConsole.cxx GuiConsole.h): Properly center console vertically
18:57.08CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31560 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiTaskbar.cxx GuiTaskbar.h): Implementing the buttons in the task bar (not complete)
18:57.19mafmI have to go now, see you guys
18:58.40CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31561 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (10 files in 3 dirs): Add lesson 6
19:04.16CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31562 10/brlcad/trunk/ (12 files in 5 dirs): Remove tcl.c from libged. Added ged_obj.c to libtclcad. Call Ged_Init from Tclcad_Init. Added struct ged_obj to tclcad.h.
19:19.06CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31563 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (CMakeLists.txt Makefile.am): Added ged.c to Makefile.am. Added erase.c and erase_all.c to CMakeLists.txt
19:21.08CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31564 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Add Lessson 7
19:40.57*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-071-040-234.pools.arcor-ip.net)
19:51.53*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
20:04.10CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31565 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (9 files in 3 dirs): Add Lesson 8
20:33.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31566 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (9 files in 3 dirs): Add Lesson 9
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20:34.24starseekerattempts to uncross eyeballs
20:51.41CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31567 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Add Lesson 10
20:55.28CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31568 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Split out the ls command from wdb_obj. Added the ls command to ged_obj.
21:06.40CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31569 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Add Lesson 11
22:05.00CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31570 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (8 files in 3 dirs): Add Lesson 12
22:37.58CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31571 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (12 files in 3 dirs): Add Lesson 13
23:09.43CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31572 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (11 files in 3 dirs): Add Lesson 14
23:30.32pacman87so there's a 2d point, but no 2d vector?
23:46.46pacman87make[2]: *** No rule to make target `solver_test.c', needed by `solver_test.o'.  Stop.
23:49.21pooliopacman87: distclean :) I had that same issue
23:49.36pacman87poolio: thanks
23:53.33CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31573 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (15 files in 3 dirs): Add Lesson 15
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080624

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080624

00:24.18*** join/#brlcad houdin8888 (n=houdin88@ip24-250-205-120.ga.at.cox.net)
00:25.36CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31574 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (11 files in 3 dirs): Add Lesson 16
00:25.46starseekerWooooo-hooooooo!
00:26.54houdin8888Hi all. I'm new to this BRL-CAD. Just wanted to say hello.
00:27.08starseekerpeels eyeballs off monitor
00:27.13pacman87houdin8888: hi
00:27.19starseekerhowdy and welcome
00:27.30houdin8888thank you. thank you
00:28.24houdin8888just trying to get me teeth into some CAD experience. thought i'd go the open-source route. glad there's so much out there.
00:29.46houdin8888would anyone suggest an easy tutorial for someone (myself) wishing to start using BRL-CAD on MS Vista?
00:32.32houdin8888i wanted to try the "benchmark" images using script run.sh, but couldn't find the "bench" directory.
00:34.31houdin8888hmm. did i say something wrong?
00:35.58houdin8888?lib
00:39.41starseekerheh - no
00:39.44starseekerwe're in and out
00:40.37houdin8888ic, its ok. i know i have a very high learning curve to climb.
00:40.55starseekerFor tutorials the standard starting point is here:  http://brlcad.org/w/images/c/cf/Introduction_to_MGED.pdf
00:41.30houdin8888ahh.. yes,. I have that one. thanks.
00:42.19houdin8888i read the first pdf in the series... haven't yet digested this 2nd pdf
00:42.53starseekerThe second one is the "real" introductory documentation
00:43.07starseekerin the sense that it is the volume that gets you working with CAD geometry
00:43.09houdin8888i'm beginning to see that.
00:43.47yukonbobhello, cadheads
00:43.55starseekerHey yukonbob
00:43.59houdin8888Hello!
00:44.02yukonbobhey starseeker
00:44.30starseekeris now MUCH closer to having a reasonable Volume II docbook conversion
00:44.34yukonbobhoudin8888: expect a _steep_, steep learning curve, and once you stop and look around, find it's all been worth it ;)
00:44.52houdin8888i am very hopeful
00:45.18yukonbob<yoda>There is no hope; only do, or do not</yoda>
00:45.38pacman87there is no try
00:45.38houdin8888hehe
00:45.40starseekerhoudin8888:  Do you have any experience in other CAD systems?
00:45.41yukonbob^--- bastardization, but wth...
00:45.52houdin8888googlesketch
00:46.07yukonbobhoudin8888: CSG (ie: POVRay)?
00:46.39houdin8888i must admit near total ignorance.. but, been a long time wannabe
00:46.52starseekerOK.  I could go Yoda and say "you must unlearn what you have learned" but it would be more accurate to say that prior experience is not terribly applicable to BRL-CAD
00:47.17starseekerIt's a very DIFFERENT way of modeling for most folks
00:47.35houdin8888i like the idea that BRL-CAD was used to predict ballistic effectiveness
00:47.43starseekers/was/is
00:47.46starseekerstill in active use
00:48.01starseekeralthough BRL-CAD itself doesn't do the military predictions
00:48.01yukonbobhoudin8888: you're getting into the advanced stuff; long path to balistic modelling ;)
00:48.12starseekerit is used by other software that does
00:48.16houdin8888true... but, i like pyrotechnics
00:48.29starseekerheh - sorry, no explosions
00:48.37yukonbobpredicts somebody is going to be disappointed...
00:49.00starseekerIf you want to animate stuff being blown up, Blender is probably a better bet ;-)
00:49.15houdin8888no disappointment.. I'm committed to learning this computer graphics modeling program
00:49.21yukonbobprefers the easy route and goes to a movie
00:49.24starseekercan't understand why their second movie project didn't get more notice...
00:49.37starseekerBig Buck Bunny or something like that
00:49.46yukonbobhrmm... first I've heard of it...
00:49.55starseekerone sec...
00:49.57yukonbobhits alta vista
00:50.15starseekerwww.bigbuckbunny.org
00:51.13starseekerNot only did they do it with Blender, but all the content files are available under creative commons licenses
00:51.21yukonbobneat
00:51.40starseekerfigures someone will be doing a bunny vs. penguin faceoff at some point...
00:51.47yukonbobwe're undergoing a mini rennaisance with media and licensing...
00:51.50starseekerIt's near Pixar level animation
00:53.25starseekeris still annoyed at slashdot for not giving them a front page article
00:53.46houdin8888nice find (bigbuckbunny)
00:54.30starseekerIt's the successor project to Elephant's Dream, which was the Blender project's first such move.  Well done, very artsy, very weird viewing experience
00:54.55starseekerBig Buck Bunny was intended to appeal to a wider audience
00:55.20starseekerAh, well
00:56.01starseekerThey may have tried to avoid the slashdot effect, given how large the movie files are
00:56.41starseekereither everyone's watching it or I chased everyone away ;-)
00:56.59houdin8888i'm watchin the movie trailer
00:57.04starseekerheh
00:58.08starseekermust get out of here, back on later
00:58.20houdin8888nice to meet ya
01:12.32*** join/#brlcad Byron1 (n=byron@pool-96-229-127-10.lsanca.fios.verizon.net)
01:12.56Byron1how can I create an empty box with no top
01:13.50brlcadByron1: depends what sort of box, thickness of walls, etc
01:14.35Byron1I would like to create a box similiar to a battery
01:14.44brlcadone of the easiest ways is to just create an arb8 (a box), then subtract a slightly smaller arb8 from it that is shifed up
01:15.26brlcadthe 'inside' command will create an inner arb8 easily, then you can just extrude the top face to make it "open"
01:15.37Byron1Could the box then not have a top?
01:15.58Byron1How can you extrude the top
01:17.09brlcad~starseeker++
01:17.13brlcadnice doc progress!
01:17.54brlcadByron1: yes, the same arb8 that makes the exterior can be made to remove the top
01:18.24brlcadwhen you're editing an arb8, one of the (many) editing options is moving faces
01:19.18Byron1If you move a face can it be removed from the box?
01:19.20brlcadpacman87: yeah, 'revolve' and 'sweep' probably best -- the old short names were from ancient days where every keystroke was precious and cryptic names were the standard convention
01:20.11brlcadByron1: "yes and no" .. you cannot have an arb8 with a side missing, that's topologically not solid geometry
01:20.24brlcadbut you can certainly make a box with a hole in the top
01:20.35brlcadtwo primitives, bam
01:22.00brlcadthe geometry must always preserve a solidity constraint, hence solid primitives -- even with brep, it wouldn't be allowed
01:22.36brlcadByron1: have you gone through the basic mged tutorials? .. that might help explain things a bit
01:23.18Byron1Yes I have gone through the tutorials. And they have helped out a lot.
01:24.29Byron1I thought that I could make a glass box with a steal plate inside and be able to see the plate
01:25.17brlcadpacman87: there is and is not a 3D spline structure you can use.. openNURBS provides it (as do several of our older tools internally like 'track', the anim tools, and joint solving)
01:25.19Byron1Also I figured I could do a thin arb8 to make the bottom non transparent
01:25.37brlcadsounds reasonable
01:26.50Byron1if the top was transparent I figured that that would give the impression to the top not there
01:33.17brlcadit would if it was fully transparent
01:33.52brlcadthe thing is those are region properties, you'd have to create a separate object for each side of the box and make just the top fully transparent .. which would be silly
01:35.14brlcadmakes a quick example
01:42.30brlcadByron1: http://brlcad.org/tmp/box.png
01:42.57brlcadthat's four primitives, two that make the glass box (that has no top), one for the bottom checkered plate, and the sphere
01:44.02brlcadByron1: and the geometry for that is here: http://brlcad.org/tmp/box.g
01:50.06brlcadstarseeker: you'll see a lot of "very weird viewing experiences" at siggraph, even more so than elephant's dream
01:50.48brlcadlots of really interesting (and huge) artistic influence.. they tend to be the fun side of siggraph :)
02:08.28CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31575 10/brlcad/trunk/include/vmath.h: add a 2d point type to finish out the set, plus some minor ws consistency updates
02:15.12CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31576 10/brlcad/trunk/include/vmath.h: busted, define the right names so it'll compile
02:16.40pacman87brlcad: there was a 2d point, the 2d vector was missing
02:18.43brlcadjust a bad comment
02:18.59pacman87just checking ;)
02:19.03brlcadnods
02:20.56brlcadalso, wouldn't worry about aligning the sketch (does extrude try to?)
02:21.57brlcadpacman87: also, just background info, it was missing simply because nobody had needed them yet (at least from a vmath perspective)
02:23.19brlcadtry to only add things exactly when they're needed, otherwise maintenance grows faster than is useful if you develop speculatively
02:23.37brlcadrather, the cost of that maintenance is high
02:24.01brlcadthat goes for most of the code in brl-cad, though some parts less than others (i.e. they need refactoring)
02:24.38pacman87aligning the sketch with what?
02:25.24brlcadyou'd asked assuming the y-axis
02:25.37brlcador using point/vector
02:26.10pacman87right
02:26.35pacman87so you're saying just to use the y axis?
02:29.08brlcadI think that's a safe assumption
02:29.27brlcadjust because, as example, I don't recall extrude accounting for sketch rotation in any way
02:29.32brlcadnot much different
02:30.17brlcadthe only thing I can think of is that it might require some changes to the sketch editor to get something that perfectly clamps to that y-axis
02:30.42pacman87for extrude, you give the height vector, and one of the axes (i forget which), and it aligns the sketch with that
02:30.46brlcadI believe it dynamically scales the domain when the bounds are reached
02:31.33pacman87if it helps, i could just ignore everything in the -x side of the sketch
02:31.57pacman87so the lines just have to cross the y-axis instead of stopping
02:33.45brlcadi'm thinking you might just have to auto-adjust the x-domain
02:34.10brlcadi.e. shift it to the right so it meets the first point/curve
02:34.22brlcadit == y-axis
02:34.49pacman87so treat the y-axis as though it passes through the first point?
02:36.20brlcadideally first piece of the sketch (which might not be a point), but sure point would be a decent second best
02:36.38brlcadfirst left-most point
02:37.02pooliobrlcad: sorry I've been so inactive the past week...hopefully I'll get more done this one :)
02:37.19pacman87i haven't actually used the sketch editor, so i dont' really know what im talking about
02:37.25brlcadpoolio: hope so :)
02:37.41brlcadpacman87: you're not missing much :)
02:38.09brlcadit was a *very* rudimentary interface to have some means to tweak sketches that were being imported from other CAD systems
02:38.17pacman87my parents and little bro are gone (college visiting), so i'm free to eat, sleep, and code for the next two days :)
02:38.37brlcadnot intended for day-to-day use really .. with sweeps and revolves using them, having a new sketch editor becomes a much higher priority ;)
02:38.45brlcadmaybe next gsoc follow-up ;)
02:42.56brlcadpacman87: awesome (regarding intense coding) woot :)
02:43.34brlcadpacman87: I hope you don't mind, but I sent out an announcement to our news mailing list about your progress on hyp
02:44.17pacman87that reminds me, i still need to finish those last few things
02:44.28pacman87revolve took over my brain too soon :)
02:48.09pacman87when's the june release going out?
02:50.32brlcaddon't worry about those few things, keep up on revolve
02:50.40brlcadsomeone else can wrap up those other pieces
02:50.56pacman87someone else (tm)
02:51.01brlcaddocument them into the TODO file
02:51.16pacman87ok, i wrote down the list
02:51.55pacman87it's a great feeling when i can find a mathematical proof for my intuition
02:52.05brlcadhehe
02:58.30CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31577 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/asc2g.c: good gravy, there were three different ws/indent styles going on in here. make it more consistent.
03:12.33CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31578 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/asc2g.c: more cleanup. turn the comment blocks into doxygen blocks, reorder functions so forward declarations are not necessary.
03:14.58*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
03:22.56CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31579 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 5 dirs): deprecate HPT_LEN, HVECT_LEN, and ELEMENTS_PER_PT so that the defines are consistently ELEMENTS_PER_[type sans _t] across the board where they match the type they refer to.
03:27.37pooliobrlcad: do you think the nmg structure -> brep will be useful in the long wrong? For arb8 it seems simpler to just duplicate the tess() code
03:28.42brlcadheh, subliminal slip?  the long wrong sounds fun
03:29.56pooliohaha. long run. uh oh :)
03:30.15brlcadno entiendo lo que dices
03:30.17brlcadexplain
03:31.10poolioSo, I'm working on just going from the struct model, the NMG model of the arb8 generated by tess and converting that to b-rep
03:31.50poolioBut it is going to be a pain in terms of keeping track of objects/etc... and it seems easier to just hard code values (similar to breplicator and such) and duplicate a lot of the code from tess()
03:32.04CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31580 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: woot, 3-fer-won .. the windows installer is better now, nsis goodness should be version aware now.
03:32.51brlcadbreplicator is a *horrible* example to follow for *anything* .. other than simply understanding how the ON_Brep type works
03:33.05brlcadjust so you know :)
03:33.09pacman87nice name ;)
03:33.31brlcadthere is/was no intention of keeping the tool around, it is a testing tool
03:33.50brlcadsame with the two brep_ examples
03:34.07brlcadwhat objects do you have to keep track of?
03:34.16brlcadfor an arb, there's just one shell
03:34.36poolioI understand that, I was just referencing the fact that to connect proper elements and such you need to keep track of them, and doing so with NMG seems more difficult than just doing it from a tess()-like method
03:35.11brlcadquite possibly true
03:35.12poolioWell, the vertices, edges, all the various elements
03:35.24brlcadi'd see how many other tess() routines will be directly useful
03:35.27poolioAlthough I suppose being able to work with the NMG may be useful in the future
03:35.52brlcadsay you wrote some completely generic struct model -> ON_Brep routine (which you're going to have to write anyways
03:36.05poolioA lot of what I'm doing is kind of reverting the tess() work...it calculates what I need, puts it in NMG, and then I need to extract it. It'd be much easier to just work with the calculated values
03:36.17brlcade.g. to support NMG primitives.. :)
03:36.22pooliofun fun :)
03:36.31brlcads/primitives/primitive/
03:36.59brlcadnot a huge deal, /me thinks -- your call
03:37.11brlcadbut I do think you'll end up needing that routine eventually
03:37.16pooliodoes NMG support non-linear curves?
03:37.31brlcadso if you have to tackle the hard problem, might as well avoid wasting the time redoing all the little easier problems
03:37.44poolioYeah, makes sense...if I write it properly than I'm done the NMG primitive work...maybe I should just start there and not work specifically on arb8
03:38.02brlcadyeah, sorta -- the bspline primitive is built on top of nmg
03:38.27brlcad(i.e. the old nurbs implementation)
03:38.47poolioah k. but NMG is just lines?
03:38.52brlcadarbitrary bspline brep surfaces
03:39.13poolioThe paper I borrowed talks about future work to support more types of curves in NMG
03:39.20brlcadnmg is technically just the structure (the 'uses') .. so it could be either
03:39.33brlcadin practice, they're all linear segments afair
03:40.03brlcadyeah, the entire bspline system is built on top of and/or into nmg
03:40.22brlcadyou have all the uses references, but the things they're using are geometry (which can be anything)
03:41.17brlcadthat's where opennurbs decided to pick a different set of terminology where historic used the 'uses' concept to distinguish topological structure from underlying geometry
03:42.15CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31581 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: I wrote a script that checks for missing files in a dist some time ago
03:43.32*** part/#brlcad Byron1 (n=byron@pool-96-229-127-10.lsanca.fios.verizon.net)
03:43.49CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31582 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: promote testing the root solver patch
03:44.03brlcadlast Byron1
03:44.12brlcader, cya
03:51.52CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31583 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
03:51.53CIA-22BRL-CAD: more cleanup, promote integrating last summer's opennurbs update and reviewing
03:51.53CIA-22BRL-CAD: the root solver. raytrace progress can be obtained by sending a signal
03:51.53CIA-22BRL-CAD: (SIGUSR1), adrt was updated/decoupled, and environ doesn't seem as interesting
03:51.53CIA-22BRL-CAD: as it used to.
04:00.13CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31584 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
04:00.13CIA-22BRL-CAD: nice.. it's been hella long since I've apparently reviewed everything.. more
04:00.13CIA-22BRL-CAD: completed. indentation was run, eclectic was (briefly) reviewed, autogen.sh is
04:00.13CIA-22BRL-CAD: recursive, configure doesn't test stuff it doesn't need to, center of presented
04:00.13CIA-22BRL-CAD: areas are implemented, we have mirror around arbitrary vectors, and there's a
04:00.16CIA-22BRL-CAD: script to parse sf.net trackers
04:26.43starseekergets vmplayer working and is impressed by Haiku
04:26.47CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31585 10/brlcad/trunk/ (27 files in 2 dirs): apparently pkg-config wants the files to have the same name as the internal name, who woulda thunkd it.
04:29.19starseekerwonders how he's supposed to download stuff without a browser in the image...
04:29.51starseekerah ha - wget
04:29.56starseekerof course
04:30.38brlcador curl
04:30.53brlcadcurl is slightly more prevalent than wget
04:31.20starseekerhuh.  wonder how I stumbled into wget first
04:31.29starseekerchecks for curl...
04:32.41brlcadi believe wget might be older and it's good for copying sites (recursively) .. curl is a generalized URL tool
04:32.50starseekerah
04:32.50brlcadcurl -O http://brlcad.org/index.html
04:33.13brlcadcurl http://brlcad.org/tmp/box.g > /tmp/box.g
04:33.51starseekerah, I'll bet that was it - recursive site copying
04:33.58brlcadshould find either on most linux distros
04:34.02starseekerremembers attempting that with a few websites
04:34.09brlcadbsd depends on what was installed
04:34.19brlcadmac has curl by default, but no wget
04:34.36brlcadwindows has neither by default
04:34.51brlcadforget what solaris did
04:35.51starseekeris continually amazed by how little Windows has by default
04:38.53starseekeryou're mowing through stuff brlcad - nice work yourself ;-)
04:39.04starseekeris reading scrollback...
04:39.28brlcadnot what I wanted to get to
04:39.59starseekerWhat were you hoping for?
04:45.20brlcadoh, didn't get to rtarea rewrite, libged/mged refactor bit, and new gui tested
04:48.31starseekerah
04:49.11starseekerwell, for what it's worth, nice image in the release news item :-) rtwizard I'm guessing?
04:49.27brlcadhm?
04:49.36brlcadnah, I just whipped that up on the fly
04:49.41starseekerreally
04:49.46starseekernice
04:49.55starseeker'course, I'm biased
04:50.46brlcad:)
04:55.57brlcadoo, there's a thought .. starseeker, have you tried tessellating a tire yet?  with/without tread?
04:59.13pacman87hmmm, my numpad took over my mouse, and i'd don't know why (or how to turn it off)
04:59.21pacman87numlock doesnt' matter
05:02.46starseekernope
05:03.01starseekertried tessellating the mustang tire and it blew up
05:03.09starseekertries...
05:03.58pacman87starseeker's developing a new weapon
05:04.08starseekerpheer the tire
05:04.19pacman87exploding tires
05:04.47starseekersees he has done one too many system updates since last recompiling BRL-CAD...
05:12.47starseekeroo, nope - might have caught the libged transformation at a bad point... ok, gcc, do your stuff
05:20.31starseekerwonders how long before 8 core supercomputers cost less than $300...
05:25.42PrezKennedyyou can get 4 core computers for not too bad
05:28.18starseekersupposes he should just be more regular about recompiling...
05:31.19starseekerlet's try this...
05:31.58starseekerfacetize ftire tire
05:32.07starseekerand the cpu goes nuts...
05:34.50brlcadwould expect it to take a long while
05:35.12brlcadand .. um .. yeah, like at least daily :)
05:35.30starseekerheh - I'll get going on the machine at work and forget to update my home machine
05:35.37starseekershould set up a cron job...
05:35.54brlcadI used to have it compile continuously via cron
05:36.14starseekerwonders what brlcad's power bills were linke
05:36.18starseekerer like
05:36.24brlcadshrugs
05:36.30brlcadi never turn my machines off
05:38.14starseekerBRL-CAD - it's not just for modeling, it's also a space heating application!
05:39.31starseekerwell, considering this is the model WITHOUT tread, I'd say lord help anyone who has to do this
05:41.03starseekerwill let it run 'til morning
05:41.21brlcadtries one with tread
05:41.51starseekercan hear the machines flinching from here
05:44.37brlcadwonders why OIS is trying to compile Linux interface files on Mac OS X
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05:47.38brlcadhowdy Mouette
05:47.59brlcadwhich I could stay longer, gotta run though .. hopefully the e-mails were enough info
05:50.16Mouette?
06:11.18starseekerbemusedly wonders if ReactOS could run the windows BRL-CAD binary
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07:19.35CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31586 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: duplicate entries removed
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11:09.50mafmhallo
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11:36.46brlcadMouette: I see why you were confused .. my messages hadn't sent, some bug in my e-mail client had them just sitting in my outbox
11:36.54brlcadhowdy mafm!
11:39.06mafmhi brlcad
11:39.14mafmdid you see my messages in the log?
11:39.31brlcadyep
11:39.57mafmso did you try to build it? if so, any problems/comments?
11:40.20brlcadI did, making progress, but it's quite far from seamless :)
11:40.38brlcadnot through getting the dependencies to build
11:41.34mafmyou mean the dependencies of OGRE?
11:41.41brlcadno problems as yet, just annoyance of dependencies and each one having different build settings .. a couple are just crap build configurations on mac
11:41.45mafmI think that the others don't have almost dependencies
11:42.10mafmI see
11:42.27brlcadrather linux-specific atm
11:43.33mafmapart from that, I'd like to talk a bit about which functionalities create, how they should appear, etc
11:43.53mafmin example, the taskbar of the video doesn't have "minimize"
11:44.14mafmand I don't know if you'd like it or not,
11:44.57mafmalso I think that it would be good to have some window controls when clicking in the buttons of the taskbar (close, whatever)
11:45.32mafmand having buttons in the taskbar somewhere for tiling/fullscreen, and things like that
11:49.58mafmI have to go to lunch though, be back in a bit :)
11:49.58brlcadminimization is an application modality
11:50.09brlcadit handles it by providing new sheets
11:52.25brlcadeach tabbed sheet is effectively a new context, they're already effectively fullscreen unless there's a current 'task' in progress that might have caused a split or two
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11:53.02brlcadfrom the *users* perspective, they shouldn't look or act like 'windows'
11:55.34brlcadpart of the point of non-overlapping contexts, and one of the big usability impacts is window management, not letting the user waste time with window layout/organization, overlaps, and active states (source of many modality errors)
11:56.24brlcadthat's talked about a fair bit throughout the IOE prototype
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12:47.06starseekerhrm.  facetizing tire returned message:  nmg_radial_build_list() min and max angle not adjacent in list (or list not monotone increasing)
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12:49.07starseekerhere's the full message:  http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m49a83cdf
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12:57.00Mouettecredit can be writen: Albatross Yang
12:57.40Mouetteyou can rename it as BRL-CAD_7.12.4_solaris_x86.pkg
12:59.31Mouetteor other
13:00.23Mouettebut have keeped the version number and platform name.
13:09.42``Erik*snrkt* http://home.clara.net/lesmcdm/images/virgin.jpg (work safe)
13:10.01``Erikish, anyways
13:13.04brlcadthat's *old* old :)
13:13.16brlcadsees someone is making there way through /. comments
13:13.51brlcadMouette: can the two numbers that are inside the .pkg be manually edited safely?
13:14.12brlcadthe version numbers that are listed as 7.2.14 .. if they can, I'll just make the direct edits
13:16.19Mouetteyou mean my version display 7.2.14 in my package?
13:16.27brlcadyes
13:16.37Mouetteok,i modify
13:16.45brlcader, maybe 7.4.12 .. one of the two
13:17.02brlcadeither way, it seemed .. not right :)
13:17.38brlcadstarseeker: interesting tessellation .. fails on the tread, but gets the inner tube and hub just fine
13:32.11Mouettereuploading
13:44.52PrezKennedyflexspending blows
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13:55.49mafmbrlcad: the problem is that I was imagining modeling as something similar to using GIMP
13:56.11mafmwith many windows around to perform different operations on geometries
13:56.47``Erik(bsd has 'fetch' standard, curl and wget are "linux weenie tools")
13:58.06``Erik<-- *slow* slow, so it all works out
13:58.11``Erikand I'm caught up! w00t
13:58.52Mouettei have done
14:01.29brlcadMouette: got it, looking it over
14:01.48brlcadmafm: yes, that is a "problem" :)
14:02.00``Erik"margarita? I thought that was a slushy!"
14:02.44brlcadmafm: that can be an option later (to allow broken out, overlapping window management), but isn't at all what we need first
14:03.00mafmso I don't know which kind of contexts are necessary to create
14:03.52``Erikbrlcad: do we have fastgen geometry stashed somewhere? there's some email noise about a fast4-g truncation error (ajem scr)
14:04.04``Erik(or is it fixed?)
14:04.15brlcadtwo things to focus on, 1 - having one application window that can toggle between window and fullscreen and 2 - context/'window' management inside the application for the basic UI elements (taskbar, command overlay, graphics context, etc)
14:04.26brlcadbrlcad: see TODO
14:04.31brlcader ``Erik heh
14:04.40``Erikah, heh
14:04.50``Erikdoesn't answer my question, though, just the context statement
14:05.07``Erikwell, answers my second question, but... :D
14:05.50brlcadi have some somewhere, cad might on an unmounted disk
14:06.16``Erikheh, and no g-fast4.c :D
14:06.21brlcadhence the todo, finding something to test was part of checking it out
14:06.31brlcadyep, somewhat intentionally ..
14:06.54brlcadthere's not much point going from our format to theirs (from our perspective)
14:08.11mafmbrlcad: the application window is OGRE I guess, that it already works in that way (can be resized, and the gui windows that I create adapt to that)
14:08.40brlcadi know it's ogre .. but can it go fullscreen? :)
14:08.42mafmbrlcad: then the command overlay it's already there, but without autocompletion or things like that
14:08.55brlcadbig window != fullscreen
14:09.13mafmthen the graphicx context would be the top panel I guess
14:09.17prasad1brlcad going fullscreen eh
14:09.23mafmsure, it's a toggle :)
14:09.28brlcaddamn straight
14:09.47mafmyou can even start in fullscreen
14:09.59mafmI just have to create a shortcut or something
14:10.24prasad1got a screenshot of current progress?
14:10.27brlcadit'll probably eventually be a default
14:12.33mafmthe first time that you start, as usual OGRE apps, ask you for display configuration, and you can set it
14:12.50mafmprasad1: http://wainu.ii.uned.es/~mafm/brlcad/brlcad_rbgui_20080623-1.png
14:14.51brlcadmafm: you say you have the translucent command overlay working?
14:15.48mafmnot exactly... my initial idea of the console was a bit different, similar to IRC
14:15.54brlcadwhen I mean IOE is a prototype, it's not just in basic functionality but in appearance too :)
14:16.01brlcadwe *also* need a console like you have
14:16.10mafmhmmm
14:16.44mafmso command overlay is the IOE-like one, and console IRC-like one, right?
14:16.52brlcadright
14:16.58mafmneat
14:17.27brlcadso the console would be something that you could toggle on/off that would fit to a given side (e.g. to the bottom)
14:17.32mafmthe console one is also a full context?
14:17.50mafmah, good
14:18.12mafmit's already working like that, only that I centered it thinking of the overlay
14:18.34brlcadit's a panel similar to when in the IOE he does a search and it creates a results panel on the right
14:19.09mafmso I think that I have enough work for a while, maybe then you or somebody else can test it and give more ideas
14:20.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31587 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiTaskbar.cxx GuiTaskbar.h): Making buttons of the taskbar to react when clicked
14:30.41mafmbrlcad: about shortcuts to enable different windows, fullscreen etc... are there guidelines, should I try to mimic something or should I invent them?
14:38.09CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31588 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 4 dirs): Added the l, listeval and paths commands to libtclcad. Split out the code for the l and paths commands (from wdb_obj.c) into separate files in libged and modified to use struct ged.
14:42.40brlcadmafm: hook display of windows into the command window, some way to query what is available and enable/disable them
14:43.07brlcadotherwise, mimic'ing IOE as close as possible in appearance and function should be more than enough work to keep you busy for a couple weeks
14:43.44brlcadthe only context missing is a graphics context, which is another packable widget type
14:43.54brlcadi.e. something to display some 3D geometry in
14:44.01prasad1do these panels dock?
14:44.27brlcadprasad1: eventually, they should be auto-docked by default
14:44.31prasad1i found the daz studio (free) interface pretty easy to use
14:44.35prasad1it's based on qt
14:44.36brlcadprasad1: do you remember IOE?
14:44.51prasad1what does ioe mean
14:44.55brlcador had he not finished that by the time you left
14:45.07brlcadit was an interaction prototype that jason worked on
14:45.25prasad1oh, prolly didnt start b4 i left
14:45.33brlcadoh, he'd started
14:45.45brlcadhe'd started thinking about IOE before we left college :)
14:45.54prasad1oh heh
14:46.02brlcadhe just finally got to finishing a prototype for a class
14:46.28prasad1know which class?
14:46.28brlcadit's pretty slick, lots of nice concepts
14:46.46brlcadit was a usability analysis class iirc
14:47.01prasad1wait is this the thing he did for m3?
14:47.07brlcadnope
14:47.08prasad1that got scratched
14:47.17prasad1*shrug*
14:47.40brlcadit touches on some of the same concepts that m3 has/had, but really ends up being different
14:50.38brlcadthere's a video if you wanna watch
14:50.54prasad1utube?
14:51.00brlcaduporn
14:51.08prasad1kinky
14:51.23brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/design/gui/ioe_proto_final.mov
14:51.50brlcadforget the task center and exact example he's going over, it's the ways you interact and core concepts that are the meat
14:52.01brlcadtakes about 10-15 min
14:54.06prasad1interesting
14:54.10prasad1something like quicksilver
14:54.12brlcadmafm: so for starters, go for full-window tabs that you can toggle with the console being one and a graphics context being another .. with top task bar and bottom tabs
14:54.18brlcadvery much so
14:55.59brlcadit's a cross between quicksilver and something like http://www.suckless.org/wiki/wmii and aqua usability concepts
14:58.50mafmwhat do you mean bottom tabs -- the bottom tabs of MDI windows?
15:03.27``ErikO.o
15:04.52prasad1ioe is too much change for one political season
15:04.53prasad1;)
15:05.46brlcadmafm: no... the bottom tabs in ioe
15:05.50CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31589 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (5 files): Creating Command Overlay and changing a bit the settings for the other windows
15:06.04mafmmmm... the bottom tabs is what I call the taskbar
15:06.08brlcadmdi tabs suck
15:06.21mafmmaybe you call the taskbar the upper panel? :D
15:07.16brlcadthere's the bar on top and tabbed selector on the bottom .. call them what you want
15:07.36brlcadthe one on the bottom should act like tabs, not buttons and not minimized windows
15:08.00brlcadmore like tabs in a browser
15:08.40brlcadvisually, that'st he one bit I didn't like -- it should be seamless to the context it activates (instead of appearing like a button)
15:09.10mafmso, not restoring the appearance as a button, but having one highlighted at a given time
15:09.24brlcadright
15:09.37brlcador rather, dehilighting the others, and having one just be "normal"
15:10.15mafmI see
15:10.36mafmI guess that I have to do it that way (or create the Tab myself, because they don't seem to have that in the library)
15:12.10brlcadsomething sort of like this for the bottom: http://brlcad.org/tmp/tabs.png
15:12.26brlcadwhere it blends up but demphasizes the others
15:14.18mafmI see
15:14.59CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31590 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/book/tutorial_series/VolumeII.xml: Fix docbook for authors so that it outputs cleanly
15:17.18CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31591 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (list.c pathsum.c): include missing header, cast to fix type warning (const issue)
15:19.25mafmI guess that I should create some kind of "window manager" class to register the windows, the specialized unique windows (taskbar, etc)
15:19.56mafmand to take high-level layout decisions, such as tiling windows
15:24.57brlcadabsolutely, that was part of the reason why I pointed you at wmii .. to see if maybe there was even some layout code that could be pulled from it
15:25.46CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31592 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/pkgconfig/Makefile.am: libwdb typo
15:26.10brlcadthey have two basic layout options, one being tabbed, the other being 'stacked'/shaded
15:28.01mafmI wonder if I can use wmii with KDE :D
15:37.41CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31593 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (18 files in 2 dirs): Point all the lessons and the book itself to a single authors file in the tutorial series directory, since they're all pulled from the book
15:40.28mafmhuh
15:40.40mafmnot with KDE, but it's working now :D
15:41.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31594 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/pathsum.c: Changed TCL_ERROR to GED_ERROR in a few places.
16:17.51CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31595 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Changed a handfull of function name prefixes from bu_ bu_tcl_.
16:29.27CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31596 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 4 dirs): Stage 1/4 towards a simple binary constraint solver: Addition of simple Network and Solution class
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16:42.48pacman87hmmm, so i have an arbitrary number of hitpoints to store and sort in shot(), but using a linked list requires memory allocation during shot.  extrude just assumes there will be no more that 64 hitpoints
17:06.35CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31597 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (11 files):
17:06.35CIA-22BRL-CAD: Introducing Window Manager class, which will perform high-level operations. One
17:06.35CIA-22BRL-CAD: example of the future functionality is that it took over the window resized
17:06.35CIA-22BRL-CAD: events: instead of registering all individual windows for render window resized
17:06.35CIA-22BRL-CAD: events, only the window manager gets notified and then it delivers the event to
17:06.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: some of the windows.
17:30.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31598 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (5 files):
17:30.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: Removing Taskbar as separate window, and reintroduce it instead as a 'frame'
17:30.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: window, part of the WindowManager class. This makes sense since WindowManager
17:30.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: is already going to have the list of available windows, it should subtract the
17:30.56CIA-22BRL-CAD: size of the taskbar when passing the available screen size to the rest of the
17:30.58CIA-22BRL-CAD: windows, etc.
17:34.07CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31599 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): beginning of revolve primitive, with shot() algorithm for straigh line sketches (untested)
17:48.15mafmuh
17:48.24mafmfullscreen works, but not very smoothly for me :D
17:50.02mafmwell, when adding more resolution it works much better really
17:53.45CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31600 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Application.cxx Application.h): Adding fullscreen support
17:59.57starseekerHere's the html conversion as it currently stands:  http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/vol2/book/tutorial_series/
18:00.12starseekerthat stupid unicode character is at is again...
18:00.28starseekerwhy doesn't that happen on the local copy????
18:32.53CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31601 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (10 files):
18:32.53CIA-22BRL-CAD: Adding a bar in the top of the screen, that will be used for context actions,
18:32.53CIA-22BRL-CAD: set fullscreen and similar tasks. Application class was made a Singleton so it
18:32.53CIA-22BRL-CAD: can be accessed from elsewhere, in example to toggle fullscreen mode from the
18:32.54CIA-22BRL-CAD: recently created top bar.
18:48.32starseekerAh hah, getting closer - http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/vol2/book/tutorial_series/
18:50.31mafm~starseeker++
19:21.36CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31602 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/README: Add toplevel docbook readme with a few notes
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19:56.41mafmhave to go now, take care guys
19:56.45pacman87bye mafm
19:57.27mafmhttp://wainu.ii.uned.es/~mafm/brlcad/brlcad_rbgui_20080624-1.png
19:57.28mafm:)
20:45.23CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31603 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Added the attr command to libtclcad. Split out the code for the attr command (from wdb_obj.c) into a separate file in libged and modified it to use struct ged.
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22:13.50brlcadpacman87: you could preallocate a pool of memory during prep, put that into the specific structure, then only allocate if you run out
22:14.13pacman87best of both worlds strategy?
22:14.19brlcadcan use bu_vls or bu_vlb as automatic pools
22:14.28brlcad(probably vlb)
22:14.47brlcadyeah, it's a decent practical balance
22:18.35brlcadstarseeker: I had them reversed, the server declaration does indeed override the meta declaration so the .htaccess and/or a section in httpd.conf that declares specific subtrees as utf-8 would be needed
22:20.43brlcaddefault setting for all sites is ISO-8859-1, so that makes more sense now
22:21.25brlcadcould possibly change the whole server to utf-8, but would need a weekend to verify it doesn't break any sites
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23:34.29CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31604 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: implement make, ted, edsol, mirror, and analyze for hyp primitive
23:35.02brlcadpacman87: does that magic number mean anything or did you pick random chars?
23:35.17pacman87i think it's 'hype'
23:35.27pacman87might be caps
23:35.38brlcadshould document it in the header :)
23:35.45brlcadsame for revolve
23:39.08pacman87in magic.h?
23:40.26brlcadyep
23:40.39pacman87ok
23:58.20CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31605 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcNetwork.h solver_test.cpp): start class name in caps
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080625

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080625

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00:36.45*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code! || Release 7.12.4 is posted (source-only release)
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01:26.14yukonbobhello, cadheads
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03:03.37geocalc./.libs/librt.so: undefined reference to `TclReFree'
03:04.58pacman87geocalc: did you do ./configure --enable-all?
03:05.14geocalcno
03:08.35geocalcsame error pacman87
03:09.27pacman87what version is your system tcl/tk?
03:10.07pacman87are you using svn current?
03:11.06geocalc8.5.2 pacman87 no svn
03:11.37pacman87what OS?
03:12.09geocalcpaldo linux 64 bits
03:13.44pacman87geocalc: i guess you'll have to stick around until someone who knows what they're doing shows up
03:13.58pacman87./configure --enable-all fixed for me
03:14.35geocalchah ok thanks pacman87
03:28.44brlcadgeocalc: you have to make clean after the enable-all
03:28.54brlcadelse there are still object files with the bad reference
03:29.31brlcadthe other quick fix to that problem is to edit src/librt/regionfix.c and add "#undef regfree" after the #include's
03:29.42geocalci see thanks
03:33.17brlcadtcl screws up a header
04:09.18brlcadpacman87: fyi, traced down at least one of the existing spline curve structures:  struct edge_g_cnurb in nmg.h
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04:14.36brlcadthat would be a viable C approach, for C++ openNURBS provides a variety like ON_BezierCurve and ON_NurbsCurve
04:14.50pacman87did i miss something?
04:15.01brlcadmebbie
04:15.09brlcad00:09 <@brlcad> pacman87: fyi, traced down at least one of the existing spline curve structures:  struct edge_g_cnurb in  nmg.h
04:19.44brlcadanim and tracker were useless curves
04:22.37brlcadso that basically leaves you those c or c++ structures, either would be good for sweep .. probably making the curve be part of sweep (instead of sweep referring to one object for the sketch and another nmg or brep object for the curve
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04:23.37pacman87ok, that was a question i had for sweep
04:23.43pacman87whether the path would be seperate
04:27.49brlcadI think it can be down either way, but I see that more as being the values of the sweep
04:28.17brlcadit's not like we're going to sweep over anything else (although that does give rise to some interesting ideas)
04:29.00pacman87well, if it's seperate, you could edit the path, or have 'parallel' sweeps using the same path and different start points
04:29.14pacman87*edit the path seperately
04:30.04brlcadyou could still conceivably edit it separately, I'm just not sure what that buys you
04:30.22brlcadgiven we *don't* presently allow editing of any non-solid geometry in 3D
04:30.48brlcadclosest is the sketch, but that kicks off a separate 2D editor
04:31.01pacman87what i meant was if you change the path, the both of your 'parallel
04:31.08pacman87' sweeps would change
04:31.15brlcadnods
04:32.41brlcadyou can do it that way, I wouldn't object, but I'm just not convinced that flexibility is worth the complexity myself
04:33.44brlcadas you'd have to decide whether you're going to use bspline or brep objects (probably the latter if you go the object-route), and validate that it's just one curve (or maybe set of curves)
04:33.57brlcadif it's internal, it is what it is
04:34.10brlcadno chance for it to be invalid
04:34.26pacman87checked on creation instead of import?
04:34.41brlcadque?
04:35.23pacman87you're saying i could use the structure internally
04:35.59pacman87if i have to limit the path to degree 2, then the internal structure could concievably be bad
04:36.13geocalcThis probably means that tk wasn't installed properly. brlcad ?
04:36.15brlcadthe options are a) sweep uses sketch and bspline, b) sweep uses sketch and brep, c) sweep uses sketch and internal spline
04:37.02brlcadgeocalc: no it doesn't mean that .. it's just a bug in one of their headers, a really obscure one that only affects folks that seach them as a header search path
04:37.29brlcadthe "problem" is that a) and b) can have a hell of a lot more in them than splines .. they're general brep containers
04:37.48brlcadnot that the spline itself may be invalid if you have some constraints that have to be imposed
04:38.03brlcadthe spline itself could be conceivably bad with a, b, or c
04:38.09brlcadthat much is constant
04:39.12brlcadc) just gets rid of the generalized container, so you don't have to "validate" the bspline/brep
04:39.48brlcadit's not a huge deal, I think any of the three are perfectly viable
04:40.52brlcadmy own inclination would probably be b) or c) leaning slightly to c) but using the nmg struct in a) internally during prep
05:01.59geocalcso brlcad to use mged i must recompile ?
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10:41.22mafmhi
10:43.24CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31606 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (6 files): Making the top panel visible, although not very elegantly. Cleanup of unused functions.
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12:02.28CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31607 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/Makefile.am: every file has to be mentioned here: added revolve.h
12:04.11CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31608 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/CMakeLists.txt: beginning of revolve primitive: added revolve.c
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12:06.06brlcadgeocalc: yep
12:32.16mafmmeh
12:32.23mafmsilly ogre :P
12:32.44mafmg3d: ../../OgreMain/include/OgreSingleton.h:66: Ogre::Singleton<T>::Singleton() [with T = Ogre::Root]: Assertion `!ms_Singleton' failed.
12:40.50starseekerbrlcad: Ah, now I remember why I was so baffled by the gdb backtrace on iges-g:  http://paste.bzflag.bz/m6e1dc5ed
12:46.48brlcadstarseeker: that's an optimized build, you need/want a debug build (probably not a /usr/brlcad install unless you install there yourself)
12:47.47brlcadmafm: looks like someone deleted a singleton
12:49.08``Erikflatulates with vigor
12:52.42mafmapparently you can get that kind of errors also because of linking issues
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13:03.10CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31609 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/bu_tcl.c src/libbu/parse.c): bu_tcl_structparse_argv has been modified to use the new bu_structparse_argv (No Tcl here. It write log messages to a vls.)
13:04.51starseekerodd, I didn't enable optimization
13:06.04starseekerexplicitly enables debug
13:11.37brlcadstarseeker: hm, then that may just be stack stompage
13:11.47brlcadput a break on something like bu_log
13:11.51brlcadthen to a bt
13:11.54brlcadsee if you see symbols
13:12.12starseekeris rebuilding with explicit debug support too
13:12.20brlcaddo you install into /usr/brlcad ?
13:12.24starseekeryes
13:12.54brlcadradmind wipes that out every night if you're not exempted (and the one it puts in place is optimized)
13:13.10starseekerI'm on my home box right now
13:13.15brlcadah, k :)
13:13.27starseekerIf radmind is wiping THIS box, I'm scared ;-)
13:13.28brlcadthen .. *maybe* that's not the problem *smirk*
13:13.41brlcadtry the bt
13:14.14brlcadif you see a valid backtrace, then you're good and you can just try to pinpoint the crash-point
13:14.47brlcade.g. put a break on the file:line that is printing "Converting NURB entities" and step from there
13:15.22starseekerdoes some quick checking and gdb 101 review...
13:18.01brlcadbreak {functionname|file:line}
13:18.04brlcadrun
13:18.13brlcadbt
13:18.38starseekererm.  It's saying no source file named convsurv.c - does it need the full path?
13:19.20brlcadsurv?
13:19.32starseekerThat's the iges conversion source file with the NURB message
13:19.44starseekerwhen I try to set the break
13:19.51starseekerfeels like such a noob...
13:20.02brlcadsurV?
13:20.28starseekerah
13:20.29starseekersorry
13:20.35starseekersmacks self
13:20.56brlcadall your surv are belong to surfers
13:20.59``Erikpoo, src/libpc/ fails to compile
13:21.26brlcadyeah, I was going to smack dawn
13:21.49brlcadit needs CPPFLAG love in configure.ac
13:22.11brlcadto add src/other if it needs non-system boost
13:23.00``Erikheh, removing libpc from the build dirs in Makefile works fine for my needs
13:24.37``Erikhehehe "s/global warming/heated orb terror syndrom/g"
13:25.19starseekerah hah - it's failing on mk_bspline
13:26.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31610 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/Makefile.am: unbreak the build, it needs src/other as an include path .. temp hack that someone(tm) needs to fix.
13:27.27starseekeris now into libwdb's nurb.c
13:32.43starseekerfails at line 64 - returning the export
13:50.33starseekerok, down to line 318 in wdb_put_internal...
13:55.28mafmhmm
13:55.39mafmI have an strange problem here, maybe somebody can help
13:56.11mafmI instantiate Ogre::Root (the mother of all the lambs), and this class has a singleton
13:57.03mafmwhen I try to get a pointer to the renderwindow, it works if I call the singleton, but not if I do it indirectly through the pointer of the created root
13:57.12mafmdoes this make any sense for you?
13:57.41mafmI don't know why they make a singleton when you can create the object separately, for a start...
14:01.18starseekerdown to rt_nurb_free_snurb...
14:09.28brlcadmafm: it seems weird (wrong?) that you'd ever want or need to direction instantiate a base class
14:09.34brlcads/direction/directly/
14:10.14brlcadthey could/should prevent that if it wasn't desirable, but there may have been some reason to allow it .. still seems pretty odd
14:10.39mafmwell, OGRE allows it (i.e. the constructor is not protedted or private), and it seems to be required as the only way to pass configuration parameters
14:11.11mafmhttp://www.ogre3d.org/docs/api/html/classOgre_1_1Root.html#Ogre_1_1Roota0
14:12.32CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31611 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/tracker.sh: dunno why the minuses were being escaped
14:12.52mafmI need that because we ship a configuration file with the plugins we need
14:13.14mafmso it's a system-wide file installed in /usr/local
14:13.25starseekerbrlcad:  OK, here's as far as I've been able to drill:  http://paste.bzflag.bz/m81591bf
14:14.08brlcadmafm: *nod*, doesn't make it any less odd ;)
14:14.57mafmbut you mean that it's odd what I'm doing or what they're doing?
14:15.08brlcadyes :)
14:15.22mafmthat's not a yes-no question :P
14:15.41starseekertables the problem temporarily to head in...
14:15.50brlcadi don't doubt that you need to, them making you need to is odd, them making an api that requires instantiating a base class is .. weird
14:16.12mafmI think that they make it too complex with their template and inheritance trickery is causing the problem
14:16.34mafmand I don't know what's the way out of the pit
14:17.06starseekerso I have it, here's the path from main down to the wipeout: http://paste.bzflag.bz/m5429c1a8
14:17.11brlcadstarseeker: mm, rt_nurb_free_snurb() being called with a null resource structure could be a problem
14:17.14mafmunless I start accessing directly Ogre::Root:getSingleton() in all the GUI windows/classes
14:17.39starseekerwill try it on the mac and see if things look difference once I'm in
14:18.38brlcadstarseeker: ever used valgrind?
14:18.48starseekerno, unfortunately :-(
14:18.55brlcadthat might pinpoint the problem, it's great at finding memory issues
14:19.06starseekerchecks to see if he has valgrind
14:19.24brlcadand this seems to be one, the fact that it crashes after free() just probably means it was asked to free something that it shouldn't have
14:19.38brlcador that something went wrong earlier
14:20.05brlcadvalgrind is predominantly best on x86 linux, so should be easy to get
14:20.09brlcadit's really easy to use
14:20.14starseekercool :-)
14:20.24brlcadmafm: any hint from the ogre devs?
14:20.27starseekeris installing ebuild now
14:20.36brlcadit's been a long while since I played with the samples
14:20.41mafmnobody replies me in the IRC
14:20.54brlcadtheir devs mostly work off their forums
14:21.04mafmI guess that I could write them, but it'll take days
14:21.07brlcadsteve doesn't like irc :)
14:21.21brlcadthey're actually pretty responsive every time I've interacted
14:21.36mafmand they point to the linking issues in the FAQs, so I guess that they'll stick to that explanation
14:21.36brlcadforums are a lot different when all your core guys predominantly use it
14:21.50mafmhttp://www.ogre3d.org/wiki/index.php/CommonMistakes#Exceptions_and_Asserts
14:22.53starseekerconsiders using this experience to write up an example based "debugging for dummies"
14:23.45brlcadmafm: that faq entry leads me to believe that there's a plugin instantiating the root as well
14:23.47starseekerhas valgrind now
14:24.05mafmhttp://www.ogre3d.org/docs/api/html/OgreSingleton_8h-source.html
14:24.21mafmstarseeker: just "valgrind binary-of-the-program"
14:25.03mafmscared of the pointer trickey :)
14:25.45mafmand the compiler pragmas as well
14:26.37CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31612 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/news2tracker.sh: maybe a \t got stripped at some point, just leaving the slash. either way, clean up.
14:27.31brlcadmafm: that's a pretty basic singleton
14:27.53brlcadit's quite flawed for many purposes, but decent enough
14:29.13brlcadmuch better: http://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bzflag/trunk/bzflag/include/Singleton.h?revision=16429&view=markup
14:30.11brlcadautomatic cleanup, prevents accidental instantiation, simple initialization .. and with just a couple extra params you can extend it to multithreading or other allocation mechanisms
14:31.46brlcadi wrote that several years ago, one of the most reused pieces of code I've ever written
14:34.23starseekerhmm - valgrind internal error
14:34.36mafmno good :)
14:35.41mafm<PROTECTED>
14:35.41mafm<PROTECTED>
14:36.08mafmthings strange with singletons, they do :)
14:36.48brlcadyeah, looks like they're of the explicit creation/destruction camp
14:37.11brlcadsilly for many reasons
14:37.19brlcadc'est la vie
14:47.44starseekerHere's what valgrind did with it:  http://paste.bzflag.bz/m78e64646
14:48.01starseekerREALLY needs to get going...
14:51.40mafmstarseeker: you might try to see what the last lines before the warnings are doing
14:51.46mafmin example: spline (spline.c:120)
14:52.02mafmat that position of that file, something seems to be going wrong
14:52.26mafmwriting to a non-allocated place of memory, or something like that
14:54.48brlcadyeah, there's lots of goodies/nasties in that report
15:04.20starseeker's first guess based on this would be checking the various data structures and the memory allocation for said structures?
15:08.14mafmstarseeker: http://rafb.net/p/B8SFmg93.html
15:08.50mafmin the first case of printf trying to read an dangling pointer, you get this:
15:08.56mafmUse of uninitialised value of size 8
15:09.22mafmthen I try to assign it a value, writing to that position:
15:09.24mafmInvalid write of size 4
15:10.04mafmso in the lines of spline.c, you should try to see which variable you're accessing, and if was properly created (and not deleted in the meantime)
15:10.08starseekerRight - so in the case of valgrind it diesn't like (*b_patch)->v.knots[i] -= min_knot;
15:10.19mafmsometimes you get chained problems, when some memory overwrites other
15:11.16mafmfor a simple debugging procedure, you might try to access different parts of that line, to see where's the problem
15:11.19starseekerlooks for the structural definition of face_g_snurb
15:11.50mafmmaybe it's that i runs too far away in the vector (trying to access beyond the created elements)
15:16.25starseekeris thinking this looks like pointer fun...
15:21.46starseekerOK, knot vector is using fastf_t for its array type and min_knot is a fastf_t, so that's OK...
15:25.23starseekerOK, this is interesting - the FIRST call to rt_nurb_free_snurb succeeds
15:25.32starseekerit's only the second that fails
15:25.38starseekerI wonder what the difference is...
15:26.36CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31613 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Application.cxx Application.h GuiWindowManager.cxx): Miscellaneous reorganization of code and cleanup.
15:29.24mafmwell, it's not always straightforward
15:29.43mafmsometimes you even get completely mad errors due to stack overruns and things like that
15:37.26clock_or shooting into the memory
15:37.46starseekerscowls at the C programming language...
15:37.50clock_running out of an array overwrites some global variables and a complex behaviour can result.
15:38.10clock_starseeker: I suggest to scowl at wrongly programmed programs
15:38.28clock_make sure your algorithm is correct and your program is written correctly and typed in correctly
15:38.33clock_and then you won't encounter any bugs
15:38.47starseekerThat too, but mucking at such a low level except when no alternative exists is just annoying
15:39.00clock_once a colleague decreased some constant which was hard assumed to be 2 in the kernel
15:39.02starseekerdidn't write this one anyway
15:39.10clock_and a behavour resulted that emulated a faulty pipeline in the CPU
15:39.24clock_since the CPU has already one instruction faulty I was investigating that
15:39.34starseekernice
15:39.36clock_and after a month or two of false track I managed to find the source of the problem
15:40.02clock_starseeker: you can check if it's correct. The universe will collapse 3 times in between, but it's possible :)
15:40.26starseekerdecides to eat lunch first...
15:40.30starseekerback later
15:41.11clock_the morale of this story: do not write bad programs
15:41.17clock_always make only correct ones
16:43.44pacman87rt_gettree_leaf(rev):  prep failure
16:43.44pacman87db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/rev'
16:55.31``Erikheh, that sounds about as useful as my statemeny, clock... "don't put the bugs in the code in the first place, then you won't have to debug" ... :D
16:55.50``Erikand don't scowl at C, it's a fantastic language for what it was designed for... writing kernels and drivers.
16:57.03pooliowanders off to implement BREP support in Matlab
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17:12.14poolioGee, that was fun ;)
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17:26.34CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31614 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (5 files): Connecting CommandOverlay with history, so both it and the console have the same effect. Also made the History a Singleton to keep this consistency.
18:33.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31615 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/extrude/extrude.c: ws
18:34.40CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31616 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): more work on revolve
18:34.59pacman87probably should've used a better commit message
18:38.05mafmmaybe :D
18:43.02CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31617 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (6 files): Adding listeners to History events, so in example commands entered in CommandOverlay get logged in the panel of the console.
18:46.14mafmI go now, take care
18:46.18pacman87bye
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20:17.13starseekerPhooey.  The iges-g bug does not appear on the Mac
20:17.41starseekerAmusingly, however, it does cause an attempted raytrace in mged to die with an abort trap error
21:07.56``Erikkeeps laughing at http://www.explosm.net/comics/1324/ for some reason
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21:17.33jgayHey, anybody want to be attached to a really interesting discussion thread happening about the creation of a "mozilla foundation for government contractors"
21:17.40jgaybrlcad: ^^?
22:50.35CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31618 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (6 files): Stage 2/4 towards binary constraint solver: Constraint class definition, refinement of certain Variable and Network members and methods
23:05.59pacman87how do you set the background color for a raytrace?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080626

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080626

00:16.56*** join/#brlcad Byron (n=byron@host.dynegy.com)
00:20.04*** part/#brlcad Byron (n=byron@host.dynegy.com)
00:48.43*** join/#brlcad Byron (n=byron@host.dynegy.com)
00:49.12ByronIf I added a region in a comb can I remove it later?
00:49.30Byronand if so how?
01:00.00*** part/#brlcad Byron (n=byron@host.dynegy.com)
01:29.12*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:00.17geocalcCan't find a usable tk.tcl in the following directories:  /usr/brlcad/lib/tk8.5
02:01.01geocalcbut it is here
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02:59.12yukonbobhello, cadheads
03:09.07pacman87hi yukonbob
03:13.42yukonbobeats chocolate, listens to Frank Sinatra, and sips on his Aranciata
03:13.53yukonbobmmmm...
03:14.55yukonbobFry Me to the Moon..
03:26.35*** join/#brlcad Byron1 (n=byron@pool-96-229-127-10.lsanca.fios.verizon.net)
03:27.20Byron1Is there a way t remove a region from a comp in mged
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04:05.48starseekerwonders who replaced his brain with an overcooked meat loaf...
04:06.31brlcadmoans quietly in exhausted pain
04:08.19starseekerconcedes brlcad has more right to it than he does
04:09.07brlcadnah
04:09.14starseekeris at least current with his email...
04:09.20*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
04:09.28brlcadi just got back from the gym, half my body is throbbing in pain ..
04:09.38brlcadthe other half was already sore from tues and wed
04:09.45starseekertraining?
04:10.04starseekertries to remember which extreme sport is in season right now...
04:10.23brlcadjust trying to get back into my workout routine
04:12.34starseekerheh - close enough
04:12.56starseekerkeeps having fits and starts on both gym and diet - grr
04:17.17brlcadour team's perpetual lunch habits don't help :)
04:17.55brlcadthe last time I started getting ripped, went to gym instead of lunch for about 8 months .. man those were good times
04:18.44brlcadif Byron comes back .. "d" command
04:19.11brlcadpacman87: -C option to rt
04:19.22brlcad(man rt, rt -C 255/0/0
04:22.56starseekerwill consider that - gym instead of lunch. Good idea.
04:23.18starseeker(or could just lug that Betamax up and down the stairs a few more times)
04:24.14brlcadhave to leave *before* 11:20 though .. the temptation of yummy korean or mamie's pizza vs a gruelling hour in the gym is harsh on the mind and willpower
04:24.31geocalcCan't find a usable tk.tcl in the following directories:  /usr/brlcad/lib/tk8.5 but it is here brlcad
04:24.39brlcadhello geocalc
04:24.48geocalchi
04:24.53brlcadgeocalc: you compiled yourself?
04:25.01geocalcyes
04:25.11brlcadwhat was your configure line?
04:25.59brlcad(it's at the top of your config.log)
04:26.55geocalcoh
04:27.06geocalc*/configure --prefix=/usr/brlcad --disable-static --enable-all
04:27.21brlcadhuh, that's curious indeed
04:27.39brlcadwhat platform ?
04:27.57geocalclinux 64
04:28.13brlcadwhich distro?
04:28.34geocalcLinux xyz 2.6.25.7-paldo1-x86_64 #1 SMP PREEMPT Tue Jun 17 11:30:40 CEST 2008 x86_64 GNU/Linux
04:29.04brlcadso no distro, hand-setup?
04:29.20brlcador just custom-compiled kernel
04:29.46geocalcno it is a distro
04:32.28brlcadand that would be?
04:32.42brlcadsuse?  am I missing it in the uname there?
04:33.26geocalchttp://paldo.org/index-section-news.html
04:33.44brlcadah, paldo
04:34.31brlcadso, maybe some of the fundamentals..
04:34.43brlcadI hope TCL_LIBRARY and TK_LIBRARY are unset?
04:34.48brlcad(env vars)
04:34.50geocalchmm
04:34.56brlcadthey shouldn't be
04:35.13brlcadand if you ldd /usr/brlcad/bin/mged, what do you get
04:37.22geocalclibitk.so.0 => /usr/brlcad/lib/libitk.so.0 (0x00007ffc2110a000)
04:37.22geocalclibitcl.so.0 => /usr/brlcad/lib/libitcl.so.0 (0x00007ffc20eeb000)
04:37.22geocalclibtclcad.so.19 => /usr/brlcad/lib/libtclcad.so.19 (0x00007ffc20ce5000)
04:38.55brlcaddoes /usr/brlcad/bin/btclsh run?
04:39.18brlcadalso, did the compile and install both complete fully and successfull?
04:41.37geocalcbtclsh seems to work
04:42.27geocalccompil and didn't quit and no erro
04:42.46geocalcinstall*
04:43.40brlcadpastebin the result of this:  ls -la /usr/brlcad/lib/tk8.5
04:44.08brlcad~bzpastebin
04:44.08ibotextra, extra, read all about it, bzpastebin is http://pastebin.bzflag.bz or a place to put large chunks of text so as not to flood a channel
04:44.31geocalci can't past my isp block
04:45.07brlcadblocks http?
04:45.13brlcado.O
04:46.05geocalci'l try
04:46.07brlcadalso those ldd results cannot have been complete
04:46.15brlcadthere should have been about 20 libs
04:47.52geocalcldd /usr/brlcad/bin/mged | wc
04:47.52geocalc<PROTECTED>
04:48.04brlcadokay, a few more than 20 :)
04:48.08brlcadanother pastebin
04:53.22geocalcbrlcad=<< i can't past loading and loading as always it never end
04:53.45brlcadque?
04:57.42brlcadloading and loading of what?  pastebin? mged?
04:59.32geocalcpastebin
05:00.00geocalcwhy -la ?
05:01.59geocalc<PROTECTED>
05:01.59geocalcbgerror.tcl button.tcl choosedir.tcl clrpick.tcl comdlg.tcl console.tcl demos dialog.tcl entry.tcl focus.tcl images listbox.tcl menu.tcl mkpsenc.tcl msgbox.tcl msgs obsolete.tcl optMenu.tcl palette.tcl panedwindow.tcl pkgIndex.tcl prolog.ps safetk.tcl scale.tcl scrlbar.tcl spinbox.tcl tclIndex tearoff.tcl text.tcl tkAppInit.c tkfbox.tcl tk.tcl ttk unsupported.tcl xmfbox.tcl
05:02.27brlcadgeocalc: to see permissions
05:03.09geocalcrw-r--r--
05:04.13brlcadls -la /usr/brlcad/lib/libtk*
05:05.50geocalc<PROTECTED>
05:05.51geocalc-r-xr-xr-x 1 root root 1649048 jun 26 02:49 /usr/brlcad/lib/libtk8.5.so
05:05.51geocalc-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1649048 jun 26 02:49 /usr/brlcad/lib/libtk.so
05:05.51geocalc-rw-r--r-- 1 root root    2942 jun 26 02:49 /usr/brlcad/lib/libtkstub8.5.a
05:05.51geocalc-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root    2942 jun 26 02:49 /usr/brlcad/lib/libtkstub.a
05:06.48geocalclook ok
05:06.54brlcadyeah
05:07.08brlcadcan you run mged -c ?
05:07.22brlcadusing 'nu' display device or X
05:08.58geocalcX nu work
05:10.03geocalcogl too
05:11.32geocalcstrange
05:11.36brlcadthen in any of those, run "gui"
05:13.08geocalcogl
05:13.08geocalcStarting an ogl display manager
05:13.08geocalcmged> gui
05:13.08geocalcinvalid command name "dm_bestXType"
05:13.24brlcadOOooh
05:13.32brlcadyou running off lastest svn sources?
05:13.47brlcada lot of the commands are moving around due to a restructuring
05:14.03geocalcno
05:14.19brlcadwhich version?
05:14.31geocalcrelease last
05:15.00geocalc7.12.4
05:16.05brlcadnm /usr/brlcad/lib/libdm.so |grep dm_best
05:17.15geocalcGUI IN NU GIVE THE TCL ERROR
05:17.31brlcadk
05:18.28geocalcnm /usr/brlcad/lib/libdm.so |grep dm_best => no symbol
05:20.21geocalcyo want a no strip build ?
05:22.19geocalcthe packages manager strip all but i can install byhands if you need brlcad
05:23.04brlcadit'd be useful to verify that it's there or not
05:23.07brlcadit should be
05:23.44brlcadyour build doensn't happen to set other CFLAGS or CPPFLAGS during make or some other build step?
05:24.33geocalci don't think
05:26.11geocalcgone eat i'll rebuild after
05:27.09brlcadk
05:27.21brlcadwanders for a bit to poke at pipe performance
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06:17.36geocalcnm /usr/local/lib/libdm.so |grep dm_best
06:17.36geocalc000000000002e7d0 T dm_bestXType
06:17.36geocalc000000000002eb24 T dm_bestXType_tcl
06:17.36geocalci saw some warnings about relinking *.la brlcad
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06:34.15geocalcLinux xyz 2.6.25.8-paldo1-x86_64 #1 SMP PREEMPT Sun Jun 22 14:51:58 CEST 2008 x86_64 GNU/Linux
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07:55.34geocalc[geocalc@xyz:~]$ mged -c
07:55.34geocalcmged: error while loading shared libraries: libtermio.so.19: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
07:55.34geocalc<PROTECTED>
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09:48.18mafmhi
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10:37.54mafmhi ``Erik
10:52.07CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31619 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/History.cxx: Fixing small glitch when navigating History (bad offset of index sometimes
11:01.25CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31620 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Application.cxx Application.h main.cxx): Cleanup and doxygen documentation
11:15.33mafmhmm
11:15.43mafmbot missing my last commit?
11:15.59mafmsign of the armageddon, I guess :)
11:28.52CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31621 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Application.cxx History.cxx): Indentation/whitespace
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12:30.26CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31622 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiWindowManager.cxx GuiWindowManager.h): Adding Quit button to the top bar
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12:35.01Mouettewhen you will release 7.12.5?
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13:14.20brlcadMouette: probably not till next month (as 7.12.6)
13:22.48mafmbrlcad: Darwin is basically same as regular Xorg, right?
13:35.18``Erik"smells like karl rove's burnt asshairs" *shudder*
13:37.08``Eriksometimes the bot is a little laggy, mafm
13:37.15``Erikand darwin is the  name for the macosX kernel
13:38.10mafmkernel?
13:38.42``Erikjiggles his mini buddha gut and decides that lunch is far moar awesomer than gym
13:39.24``Erikwhat's the context you're seeing darwin in, mafm?
13:40.34mafmbasically I need to know whether the same options that I use for keyboard for Xorg are applicable to MacOS
13:40.39brlcadmafm: if you're asking if Mac OS X uses Xorg, it has it but the gui you're working on shouldn't use it (at all) .. it should be going through the Carbon/Cocoa graphics layers
13:41.12brlcadprobably not, e.g. you shouldn't be using libXi
13:41.22``Erikyeah, BRL-CAD currently uses X11.app (a fork of X11R6 that sits ontop of quartz, I believe), but we want to get rid  of thte X11.app dependancy on osX some day
13:42.19mafmI see
13:42.23``Erikwhat does OGRE use for input and context/window attach? (wgl/win32)/(glx/Xlib) ?
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13:43.30``Erik(note that X11.app is NOT installed by default on osX, you have to install it off the developer disc or download it...)
13:44.41``Erikre-re-reads the Veach/Guibas MLT paper O.o
13:51.33mafm``Erik: a mix of everything :)
13:52.02mafmfurthermore, it's another library called OIS, forked project or something like that
13:56.54brlcadmafm, it looks like OIS has both Mac-specific facilities as well as an SDL interface
13:57.21brlcadeither of those should work (preferably not the sdl interface if we can avoid it)
13:59.57MouetteMmm, when my brlcad-7.12.4 solaris x86 can annonce?
14:00.01mafmyes, but I was wondering the parameters that I should pass
14:00.11mafmif they were the same as for Xorg or not :)
14:01.50brlcadMouette: you're in a hurry? :)  it's still being validated
14:02.26brlcadmafm: depends if OIS abstracts that or not
14:02.49brlcadideally it should be entirely abstracted so at the app level you don't worry about that at all
14:02.59brlcadotherwise, there's not really much point to OIS
14:03.03mafmyou instantiate the class with some "parameterlist", with system-dependent k-v pairs
14:03.19brlcadhell, we have abstracted input for bzflag
14:03.38brlcadthat's not abstracted if the *app* has to provide system-dependent anything
14:03.42mafmkind of, to disable/enable autorepeat, or mouse grabbing
14:03.56Mouettecan't you compile like my result then release your solaris x86 package?
14:04.23mafmit's OGRE... *shrugs* :)
14:05.17brlcadI don't recall there being system-specific input the last time I made an ogre app a couple years ago..
14:06.04mafmwell, you don't have to, but you can
14:06.06brlcadMouette: sure, it just takes time and effort to make a solaris package .. along with the dozen other platforms we actively support
14:06.29mafmI hate having to switch back to my terminal and kill the app by hand
14:06.41brlcadMouette: more ideal is to find individual platform maintainers that prepare the releases for a given platform
14:06.55mafmbecause the program is in infinite loop or crashed in gdb, and keeps all my input grabbed
14:07.03brlcadthought I saw that you added a quit button? :)
14:07.05mafmor when disables autorepeat for all X
14:07.07``Erikbrlcad: your faq sheet has been substantially modified and is ready for you, she sent you an email and asked if you were in today
14:07.24brlcad``Erik: k
14:07.27brlcadwill be in a few
14:07.46mafmwell, sometimes it doesn't paint the buttons, so you just can't do anything but do Ctrl+Alt+F1 so the app doesn't get that input
14:09.30MouetteMaybe i can be brlcad for the solaris x86 platform maintainer
14:10.11brlcadMouette: maybe .. :)
14:10.28brlcadit still means though that as a new contributor, your package has to be reviewed
14:10.41brlcadat least with some level of scrutiny to make sure it's "ok"
14:11.38Mouettemmm
14:13.34``Erikof course, merely having someone building on slowaris x86 and providing patches if things don't "Just Work" would be tremendously appreciated :D
14:15.18mafmdo you know a simple way to check where's an infinite loop, different from cachegrind?
14:16.04mafmvalgrind-like if possible, not having to recompile with profiling options or things like that
14:16.57CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31623 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/History.h: Commenting out to avoid compiler warnings
14:18.11brlcadI think oprofile has similar facilities
14:18.29brlcadit's a performance profiler that also uses the cpu register timers
14:18.30``Erikum, compile with -O0 -ggdb, wait a while, break it and see where it is? and if you're not convinced based on program state/stack, put some printfs around it?
14:19.53mafmah, just statistical interruption? :D
14:20.03mafmgood one
14:20.13``Erikthat'd be my quick&easy dirty hack approach, yeah :D *shrug*
14:21.05brlcadthen you can see that it's spending x% of time in a given body of code, and if it's an infinite loop, that'll be blatently obvious
14:22.25``Erikhrm, oprofile isn't in fbsd ports
14:22.33mafm``Erik: exactly what I was looking for... I tried it sometimes but don't remember
14:22.33``Erikah, leenewx only
14:22.38mafmdidn't*
14:24.51brlcadyeah, uses some kernel modules to get to the timers
14:25.05brlcadwas kinda like valgrind, but hasn't been ported yet
14:25.42``Erikshould spend some time poking at the dtrace port in fbsd base
14:27.10``Erik(only -current right now, I think... since april)
14:30.42mafmit seems that doesn't like to have empty windows or things like that :S
14:31.20CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31624 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Application.cxx: Disabling Keyboard and Mouse grabbing at least for Xorg, so it doesn't cause problems with application crashes, infinite loops and the like
14:35.37CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31625 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (4 files): Flag to mark whether the window should be present in Taskbar or not (i.e. CommandOverlay should not)
14:59.44CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31626 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/GuiCommandOverlay.cxx: Setting CommandOverlay to Modal (dialog, cannot interact with the rest of the interface while opened), initially hidden, hidden every time Return is pressed.
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15:29.39clock_do you know big bucks bunny?
15:31.29clock_the open source blender film?
15:39.54mafmnup
15:40.03mafmI saw elephant's dream though
15:41.09clock_they have a list of individual pngs
15:41.22clock_do you have a unix on the backbone?
15:41.30clock_I would like to encode it for them with Luminaplex
15:41.40clock_Standard Y'CbCr is incredibly shitty in regarding to colour detail
15:42.30clock_then it looks like cinema and not like a video :)
15:44.18CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31627 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (4 files):
15:44.18CIA-22BRL-CAD: Adding event handlers so the prompt is focused whenever the windows becomes
15:44.18CIA-22BRL-CAD: focused; showing close button for CommandOverlay but acting as 'hide'; and
15:44.18CIA-22BRL-CAD: fixing a bug where entries in the console text panel were added twice.
15:45.15mafmyes, I have unix -- but I don't understand why is that related with bucks bunny :)
15:45.30clock_not bucks bunny big bucks bunny
15:45.35clock_the open source movie
15:45.56mafmyes
15:46.02mafmso what's the relation?
15:46.10clock_between what and what?
15:47.26mafmbig bucks bunny and my unix backbone that you were asking for
15:47.33mafm(for/about)
15:47.48clock_I want to download the pngs automated unpack them run through luminaplex and Theora encoder
15:47.53clock_and then send them the resulting video
15:47.58clock_because standard encoded videos are shit
15:48.11clock_invented the luminaplex algorithm
15:49.26mafmand do you want to render it in my computer? :D
15:49.37clock_I didn't say anything about rendering
15:49.40clock_the film is already rendered
15:51.17mafmadding colour or whatever
15:51.39mafmout for a coffee
16:24.58CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31628 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiWindowManager.cxx GuiWindowManager.h): Adding toggle buttons for CommandOverlay and Console visibility, and setting it to focused window when visible.
16:26.58mafmbrlcad: you don't want typical application menus, do you?
17:25.12CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31629 10/brlcad/trunk/ (32 files in 21 dirs):
17:25.12CIA-22BRL-CAD: Added bu_structparse_get_terse_form() to libbu/parse.c. Added
17:25.12CIA-22BRL-CAD: wdb_import_from_path to librt/wdb.c. Modified the adjust, get and form members
17:25.12CIA-22BRL-CAD: of struct rt_functab (i.e. signature). Added four new commands to libged:
17:25.12CIA-22BRL-CAD: adjust, form, get and put.
17:35.34CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31630 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: Added extern to the declaration of brlcad_interp.
17:43.03CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31631 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (4 files): Unimportant renamings, for consistency between classes
18:19.29mafmcya folks
18:19.41pacman87bye
18:25.24CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31632 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/tcl.c: Modified rt_comb_adjust to handle no and yes (i.e. the same way that rt_comb_tcladjust previously did when using Tcl_GetBoolean.
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19:48.17brlcadno "typical" menus, bleh
19:49.12pacman87revolve with straight line sketches is looking promising
19:51.32brlcadhow's that work?
19:51.53pacman87i just use a sketch with straigh lines
19:51.55brlcadyou not requiring that the scetch for a closed area with a given vector?
19:52.00brlcadahhhh
19:52.03brlcadmultiple lines
19:52.06brlcadgot it
19:52.19pacman87i'm not doing any sketch testing yet
19:52.20brlcadI was thinking a sketch with a single line segment :)
19:52.43pacman87but if i rt it alone, the hit distances are off
19:52.50pacman87if i add another shape to the rt, it works
19:52.51brlcadrevolving that would imply a conic sheet of course, but not closed/solid
19:53.09brlcadsounds like the bounding box calc is wrong
19:53.18brlcador maybe bounding sphere is wrong
19:53.30pacman87you mean too small?
19:53.43pacman87right now i'm cheating, set at 100 ;)
19:53.58pacman87and my sketch is inside that
20:00.25pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_rt01.png vs https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_rt02.png
20:01.11brlcadneat :)
20:13.29pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_rt02.png
20:13.49pacman87two rev's and a hyp between ;)
20:18.22CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31633 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c: more work on shot() and norm() for sketches with only line segments
20:52.31CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31634 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 4 dirs): Added binary, bot_decimate and bot_face_sort to libged. These were split out of wdb_obj.c and modified to NOT require Tcl. Added references to these commands in ged_obj.c
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22:07.40pacman87this is very perplexing
22:35.11CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31635 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c: more work on revolve's norm()
22:36.24brlcadperplexing and flexing?
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22:40.14pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_rt06.png
22:40.19pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_rt05.png
22:41.12brlcadheh
22:42.11pacman87only difference is the sphere
22:42.22pacman87the revs didnt change at all
22:42.38pacman87same view, same everything
22:43.56pacman8703 is the prettiest
22:46.51brlcadthat is pretty odd .. hmm
22:47.52brlcadintroducing the sphere changes the space partitioning, so you're going to have ray's being evaluated from different positions on the bounding view
22:49.03brlcadsomehow those (different) rays are getting transformed differently during prep or shot (probably the latter)
22:50.15*** part/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@76-10-146-181.dsl.teksavvy.com)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080627

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080627

00:14.28*** join/#brlcad Byron1 (n=byron@pool-96-229-127-10.lsanca.fios.verizon.net)
00:15.24Byron1from the command line is there a way to edit one point on for example an arb8
00:38.51*** join/#brlcad homovulgaris (n=homovulg@202.63.233.61)
00:39.15homovulgarisbrlcad: i broke the build :( ?
00:40.20homovulgarisboost is header only files .. why would we have build errors.
01:02.00yukonbobhello, cadheads
01:15.14brlcadhomovulgaris: because you added the code that used the headers, but didn't update the build system to tell it where they are ;)
01:15.31brlcaddoesn't magically know to look in src/other
01:15.48brlcadand welcome back, haven't seen you in a few days :)
01:16.04homovulgarisyeha
01:16.08homovulgarischanging it :P
01:16.24brlcadthat was the hint about looking at what configure does for libregex
01:16.26homovulgarisactually i edited the configure.ac adding src/other/boost
01:16.31homovulgarisbut it shoud have been src/other
01:16.32brlcadah
01:17.02brlcadmissed the configure edit .. must have been buried in a commit :)
01:17.16homovulgaris:P
01:17.25brlcadthey're getting better/smaller, but would still be better to have them smaller still and more frequent
01:18.07CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31636 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac src/libpc/Makefile.am): correcting BOOST_CPPFLAGS to src/other rather than src/other/boost: temporary fix till AX_BOOST_BASE
01:18.38brlcadeither way, nice progress so far, coming together well me thinks
01:18.46homovulgarisi am hoping for at least 3-4  per day when i get home :)
01:18.57brlcadah, on the road?
01:19.19homovulgarisyeah sort of on the road :)
01:19.47brlcadIiinteresting.. Rhino is available for Mac OS X
01:19.59homovulgarisIt is fun though .. coding while on the run :)
01:20.03brlcadmakes a mental note
01:20.11brlcadyeah, I love coding on the road
01:20.19brlcadI get some of my better work done during conferences
01:20.30brlcadat least, I enjoy it more  :)
01:21.23brlcadah, so the original 'bug' was that the makefile.am wasn't updated to use BOOST_CPPFLAGS
01:21.37brlcadthough even if it had, it wouldn't have worked because of the path
01:22.56homovulgarisboth.. It was pointing to the wrong location and it was not being included for the .h files in libpc
01:23.24homovulgaris:)
01:23.54homovulgarisdidnt even notice as apparently it was using my installed libraries.. :| grrr..
01:24.44homovulgarisbrlcad: i was unable to build mocha
01:25.36brlcadyeah, I figured as much (re using sys headers)
01:26.31brlcadhomovulgaris: let mafm know (or wait for better build system integration)
01:26.53brlcadthey're certainly not in the state I'd want them to stay in
01:27.07homovulgarismafm: check it when you come online http://rafb.net/p/vnRg5b73.html
01:27.10brlcadit's dependency hell at the moment, and there's only four of them
01:27.34brlcadoh, that's just a missing header
01:27.36homovulgaris:) ogre and ois is still peaceful i guess.. I think rbgui is the major issue
01:27.48brlcadinclude <string.h>
01:27.54homovulgaris:P
01:28.18brlcadthey build, but it's not seamless
01:28.30brlcadI like things to 'just work' as much as possible
01:29.23homovulgaris:) yeah i remember this ad.. in which there are all these motor parts working or dancing in symphony.. toyota ? and the guy says.. "isn't it great when things just.. work" :)
01:29.41brlcadnone of this download these tools, run cmake, scons, autotools, compile a pray .. watch it assume a Makefile means your on Linux (wtf), etc
01:29.51CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31637 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/boost/ (460 files in 59 dirs): additional boost library files: graphviz write
01:29.56brlcadoh, I have that video
01:29.59brlcadone of my favorite
01:30.11homovulgaris:)
01:30.20homovulgarisIt was pretty well made :)
01:30.50brlcadyeah
01:30.57homovulgarisgrr.. workrave keeps telling me "daily limit: get off your computer"
01:32.48brlcadfts
01:33.52brlcadhas dealt with rsi for years, a program telling me to stop doing what I love would quickly find itself shredded
01:34.54brlcadi switched using the mouse from my right hand to my left and what made a *massive* difference
01:36.16homovulgarishmm :)
01:57.24brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/~sean/tmp/honda.mov
02:00.02poolioAh man...my code seg faults in mk_brep()
02:03.37homovulgarisah yes.. it was honda :)
02:10.39brlcadpoolio: peanut butter debug time?
02:10.53brlcadwhere it at, where it at
02:11.03brlcadpeanut butter debug with a baseball bat!
02:13.25poolioerrr
02:16.01pooliobrlcad: http://rafb.net/p/xbgAy241.html
02:18.47brlcadwhat's your code look like
02:19.07brlcadit's *highly* unlikely that it's a bug in opennurbs
02:23.15poolioI'm 100% my code is flawed, I just wish it wouldn't segfault inside their stuff
02:25.27CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03poolio * r31638 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: initial nmg support. not anywhere near functional...
02:25.54poolioerr, initial brep support for nmgs...but ah well.
02:26.04poolioI have a feeling it has to do with my mixing and matching of C/C++ instantiations
02:28.10brlcadhehe
02:28.10brlcadmakeFunnyFaces
02:47.28starseekerbrlcad:  That's a nice high quality copy of that commercial
02:47.46starseekerloves that almost all of it is real and not computer generated
02:48.29starseekeralways wondered if it would be worth it to try and get the DVD - shoulda remembered and made it a condition of my buying the civic
02:50.18brlcadiirc, the only part that wasn't real was the muffler where they spliced the two sequences together
02:50.39pooliowhat about the tires going up the ramp?
02:50.40brlcadand that was mostly because the studio wasn't actually long enough to set the whole thing up in one go
02:50.51brlcadpoolio: heh, that part is real
02:50.54brlcadtis a neat trick
02:51.21brlcadthere are heavy weights inside the tires on the top-right
02:51.49brlcadthey talk about it in the original writeup, how many hundred takes it took, etc
02:52.16*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:53.53pooliobrlcad: so I get segfaults if I add an edge. I can upload the simple example that it's dying on if you'd like to have a look...I have no clue why it's segfaulting
02:54.20brlcadsure
02:59.45pooliobrlcad: http://rafb.net/p/4QYpfu48.html
03:09.44brlcadit'll take a while for me to clean out my build on this box fr testing, let you know if I find anything though
03:12.00pooliothanks. breplicator runs fine so I'm thinking it may be the way I'm building it
03:13.25brlcadin the meantime, try calling IsValid on the brep before calling mk_brep
03:14.01brlcadsee if it is, if it's not .. there may be ill-defined behavior on the copy construtor (mk_brep utilizes a copy)
03:20.11poolioWell, I know it's not valid...I was hoping that mk_brep() would dump the brep before it segfaulted (or even write out an invalid brep)
03:22.00poolioAh well, dump and IsValid() work fine so I guess there's no reason to worry about it...maybe modify mk_brep() to test the validity of the brep before copying and writing it?
03:40.00brlcadi didn't say that was the problem, just a possibility
03:40.45brlcadwould have to test that theory, and even if that's the cause .. doesn't explain why
03:41.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31639 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (5 files): Still stage 2/4 of Binary Constraint Solver Implementation : Graphviz done . postscript of graphs can be generated using dot
03:42.10homovulgarishttp://parametrics.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/x.png
03:45.55pooliobrlcad: It is definitely segfaulting during the copy constructor
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07:27.37CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31640 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: Added four new commands to libged: adjust, form, get and put.
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10:07.19brlcadhum
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10:40.36mafmhi
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11:19.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31641 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiCommandOverlay.cxx GuiConsole.cxx): Small cleanup of unneeded intermediate variables
12:26.01brlcadhi mafm
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13:05.22mafmbrlcad: do you think that you'll have time to test the app during the weekend?
13:05.31mafmI'm eager to receive feedback :)
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13:22.19``ErikThis is awesome! We're gonna be like pow-pow-pow, and they're gonna be like ... *AAAHHHH!* *PSSSHHHHH* ... and then we'll have pancakes to celebrate and I'll be like...gronhmgronhmgornhmì
13:23.03mafmare you going to a strip-tease?
13:23.33``Erik(futurama quote)
13:26.08mafmare they going to a strip-tease? if Bender is involved at all, it must be
13:26.10mafm:)
13:26.23mafmin fact forget the moon...
13:28.49CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31642 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 4 dirs): Added most of the drawing related commands to ged_obj.c
13:29.05``Erikhehehe
13:29.07``Erikbender rocks
13:29.36starseekernow here's a question - has anyone done a Bender version of a chat bot?
13:29.57``Erikno, but I'm suddenly tempted to make bender .po files.
13:30.24starseekerIs Eliza still the lead in chat bot stupidity, or has someone made a better one?
13:30.30``Erikhas made beavis&butthead and redneck ones before
13:30.52mafmstarseeker: nop, but they did a real Bender to brew beer: http://www.asciimation.co.nz/bender/
13:30.55``Erikum, eliza is probably the best, the brlcad bot takes forever to respond :/
13:30.56clock_Isn't G. W. Bush currently the leading authority on stupidity?
13:31.14``Erikleading practicer of, not leading authority on
13:31.18``ErikI mean, uh, O:-)
13:31.35``Erikpheer http://www.dubyaspeak.com/
13:32.13starseekerworks on tire manual to prepare for The Process...
13:32.20clock_"is a Korean Peninsula"
13:32.36``Erikpeninshula heh
13:33.06clock_ballistic missile programs
13:33.15clock_north korea must have multiple ballistic missile programs
13:33.43``Erik?
13:35.04clock_And so I'm -- it's been a -- multilateral diplomacy is difficult at times.
13:35.18clock_Looks like Bush is in the initial stage of small child's mental development
13:35.25``Erikpretty much, yeah
13:35.29clock_where it's still difficult to distinguish himself from the world around.
13:35.52clock_And so I'm -- it's been a ...
13:36.09``Erikthough one of the "repeat offender" things that the site rags on him for, I've talked to a guy from texas and he says that's how its' said in texas (so texas is special, not just bush... the "mothers and dads" phrase)
13:36.11clock_The message to the North Korean people is, is that we don't want you ...
13:36.41clock_And so my point is this, is that -- we'll see.
13:36.49clock_We'll see, that's a truly deep point.
13:36.52clock_I think Bush has a point.
13:37.50clock_"I remember meeting a mother of    a child who was abducted by the North Koreans right here in the Oval Office.
13:37.53clock_"
13:38.05clock_North Koreans abduct children directly from the Oval Office.
13:38.19clock_I think they must be really evil when they abduct children directly from the Oval Office.
13:38.56``Erik"The Iraqis are fully staffed, and  and they've got their team in there, but we don't. And so, what Gen. Petraeus is saying  some early signs, still dangerous, but give me  give my chance a plan to work."
13:39.30``Erik"I'll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office."
13:39.39clock_``Erik: my program for automated generation of nonsensical English sequences works better than Bush's brain
13:39.40``Erik:D
13:39.56clock_I think Bush needs to upgrade his statistical model of English language.
13:40.15``Erikjan '09, woooo
13:40.22archivisthe just needs killing off
13:40.26clock_He should figure out for example, that if the text ends with "give me", following with " give" is highly improbable
13:40.52clock_Sounds like the person who programmed the singlechip in his head was not a very competent programmer.
13:41.03``Erik"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
13:41.03``Eriksoap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
13:41.04``Erik-Ed Howdershelt
13:41.05CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31643 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/report.c: Initial check-in.
13:41.11clock_Give me an example of sentence that contains the string "give me give"
13:41.24``Erikwe're in the ballot/jury phase right now (I think we should be well in the jury one, but *shrug*)
13:41.27``Erik:)
13:42.02clock_Bush needs some texan rednecks with shotguns to be sent on him :)
13:42.22clock_``Erik: what is the soap box good for?
13:42.49``Erikum, american phrase, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soapbox
13:43.01``Erikor, english, rather
13:46.54CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31644 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (CMakeLists.txt Makefile.am): Added references to how.c report.c, set_transparency.c and tree.c
13:47.20CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31645 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/tree.c: Added include for errno.h
13:47.27clock_``Erik: I see
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14:00.29CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31646 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CMakeLists.txt: Writing configuration files to a temporary dir, and removing it when finishing -- instead of writing them in the directory with the sources.
14:31.54*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.201.0)
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14:38.56CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31647 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/Makefile.am: add DEPENDS
14:39.06CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31648 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (attr.c ls.c): missing header
14:39.48CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31649 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/wdb.c: missing header
14:40.11CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31650 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c: missing header and type fix for bu_strdup
14:40.22CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31651 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CMakeLists.txt: Writing configuration files to the build dir instead, so we don't have to create temp dirs and cleanup and still don't clutter the source dir.
14:45.32CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31652 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CMakeLists.txt: Setting explicitly the cfg file names, to avoid installing unintended files as it just happened to me.
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15:10.50prasad_hmm looks like we'll have a booth at siggraph
15:10.54prasad_:)
15:13.30mafm\o/
15:13.42mafmI only need to get a sponsor to pay me the travel
15:17.53CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31653 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (13 files): Miscellaneous cleanup: renaming some variables, enhancing a bit doxygen documentation and comments, reducing the visibility of some methods when they don't need to be public...
15:41.19CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31654 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 4 dirs): Migrated a few more commands (i.e. ae, center and size). Removed the local2base and base2local members of struct ged_view.
15:42.09``Erikheads off to lunch O.o
15:47.42CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31655 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (aet.c center.c size.c): Initial check-in.
15:56.16*** join/#brlcad homovulgaris (n=homovulg@202.63.233.61)
16:04.14mafmhi homovulgaris
16:04.30homovulgarishey mafm :)
16:04.39homovulgarismy system is not able to find Mocha .. grr :(
16:06.44mafmmocha is in src/other
16:06.52mafmare you using unix?
16:08.57homovulgarisdebian unstable
16:09.13homovulgarisi mean i installed mocha.. when i try to cmake rbgui it complains that it is unable to find MOcha
16:12.11mafmI see
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16:12.46mafmbut that after compiling mocha, right?
16:12.56homovulgarisyeah
16:12.57mafmthe sequence is (mocha, rbgui)
16:13.04mafmthe other is independent
16:14.22mafm$ make mocha
16:14.22mafmType: cd mocha; scons && cp libmocha.{a,so} /usr/local/lib && ldconfig && cp ../Mocha.pc /usr/local/lib/pkgconfig; cd ..
16:14.31mafmdo you execute that like exactly?
16:14.55mafmnotice the manual copy :)
16:15.11mafmand that it'll fail if you don't have scons
16:15.15mafm(be back in a minute)
16:16.25homovulgarisnaah.. i mean i had scons and i did the manual copy
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16:17.42mafmso, I'll check it in a minute :D
16:18.37homovulgarishehe .. no probs.. maybe some issue with my pkg config..i will try figuring it out
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16:27.35homovulgarismafm: It was because the Include files were not being copied to /usr/local/Include :)
16:28.37homovulgarisshouldnt u add that to the Makefile in other ?
16:32.03homovulgarisgrr.. http://rafb.net/p/9eCcu948.html but it has only two stars in the file :O
16:39.04homovulgarishmm.. shouldnt it be char* argv[] ?
16:52.11mafmhomovulgaris: char* arg[] and char** is the same
16:52.39homovulgarisyeah they are but in the file it is char** arg[]
16:52.39mafmI don't have the error, so I guess that it's not compiling the samples
16:52.51homovulgariswhich is char *** argv
16:53.11homovulgarisanyways mocha and rbgui done ;)
16:53.16mafmchar*** is one indirection too far away
16:53.39homovulgarisi changed it to char * argv[] that is  :) which is char ** argv :)
16:53.46mafmyep
16:53.54mafmand about mocha you're right, I forgot it
16:54.52homovulgarisi am getting this now though in g3d :) http://rafb.net/p/2rrvzH92.html
16:55.19mafmwhat you did is "cp -r mocha/Include/Mocha/ /usr/local/include/" I suppose?
16:55.39homovulgarisand in rbgui too i think you should put the manual copy ../RBGui.pc /usr/local/lib/pkgconfig
16:55.51homovulgarisyeah
16:56.25homovulgarisi use -R though :P
16:56.39mafmsomebody made the rpm for RBGui and they created a CMake file for it, so I think that it installs fine
16:58.55homovulgaris:)
16:58.57mafmhmm, I cannot see why you're getting the error with g3d
17:00.26homovulgarishmm..
17:00.54mafmmaybe you should "svn up" ? :)
17:01.46homovulgarisyeah i did :)
17:02.31mafmoh, one thing, I recomment to create another dir, like src/g3d/build (it can be anywhere really)
17:03.01homovulgarishttp://rafb.net/p/A7pCyy86.html
17:03.12mafmand to compile g3d: cmake .. [to be changed depending on the build dir] && make -s && su -c "make -s install" && g3d
17:03.35homovulgarisoh.. ok :)
17:03.46mafmmmm
17:03.53mafmwhat's your g++?
17:06.14homovulgaris4.3.1
17:06.19mafm<PROTECTED>
17:06.26mafm<PROTECTED>
17:06.38mafmthe problem are these two lines
17:08.15homovulgarishmmm
17:21.00mafmI cannot find the problem really
17:21.16mafm4.3 is more picky in general, but I don't know a proper workaround
17:22.19mafmfor a start you might hardcode the path: "/usr/local/share/g3d/"
17:22.40mafmso the lines would be: _root = new Ogre::Root("/usr/local/share/g3d/ogreplugins.cfg");
17:22.57mafmconfig.load("/usr/local/share/g3d/resources.cfg");
17:23.22mafmhomovulgaris: but maybe 4.3 continues to be picky and refuses to compile other portions of the code :)
17:24.47homovulgarisok.. will check that out
17:25.18homovulgarismafm: i was doing some svn:ignore propsets on rt3 mainly the src/other directory..
17:25.28homovulgarisdunno if i have commit access to that trunk though.
17:27.29mafmwhat do you mean with that, that maybe you won't be able to commit fixes?
17:28.07mafmyou can maintain them locally and then I'll fix them properly
17:28.59homovulgarisnaah.. not code modifications or anything.. just that when i do svn status for example i have to see through the whole list of Makefiles and Makefile.ins and other autogenerated stuff in the list
17:29.30mafmI see
17:30.02mafmhomovulgaris: well, so does it compile now?
17:31.51homovulgariswas doing the propedits.. will do the compile after that
17:31.54homovulgaris5 mins :)
17:33.46homovulgarisogre/OgreMain/include/config.h.in is autogenerated .. right ? so we can svn:ignore it ?
17:34.12mafmI think that is not autogenerated
17:34.21mafmthat it's the template to generate config.h
17:39.13homovulgarisit is not on svn presently right.. :) so it must be generated ;0
17:39.14homovulgaris:)
17:40.01homovulgarisand hey mafm: i had to add #include <string.h> to  mocha/Source/MemoryStream.cpp
17:40.36mafmwell, with 4.3 probably it's not the only one that you have to change
17:40.59mafmthey reorganized the included headers so now many compilations fail for simple things like that
17:41.41homovulgarisok i am commiting the propset changes to ogre and ois
17:41.59homovulgariswill check out the compilation thing ..
17:42.07homovulgarisi would love to see the new gui on my monitor :)
17:42.31mafmwell, I have to go that I'm already late and can't wait more, you'll tell me :)
17:42.41mafm'evening!
17:43.12homovulgaris:)
17:48.49CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31656 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ (521 files in 521 dirs): set svn:ignore
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17:53.22homovulgarisbrlcad: cmake_minimum_required(VERSION 2.6) asks me to add this to the top of CMakeLists.txt .. shouldnt I :) ?
17:58.53homovulgarisoops i mean cmake asks me to add that to the top of CMakeList ;)
18:29.36brlcadhomovulgaris: yes, you should add that (or some prior version)
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18:36.32CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31657 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/mocha/ (3 files in 2 dirs): <string.h> include to build mocha
18:42.59homovulgarisyeehaw.. g3d running :)
18:45.36CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31658 10/rt^3/trunk/src/ (g3d/CMakeLists.txt other/rbgui/Gui/CMakeLists.txt): cmake_minimum_required(2.2) added to the CmakeLists
18:49.10CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31659 10/rt^3/trunk/ (28 files in 28 dirs): svn:ignore and char*** to char** in OgreSample application
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18:56.22``Erik*yawn*
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20:46.02brlcadhello quentusrex
20:47.49pacman87well, starting plot() for the wireframe fixed the earlier raytrace problem
20:48.56brlcadcool, what was it?
20:49.13pacman87what was what?
20:49.17brlcadthe problem :)
20:49.22brlcadwhen you added the sphere, the results changed
20:49.23pacman87i still don't know
20:49.26brlcadhah
20:49.31pacman87i dont need the sphere now
20:49.31brlcadgotta love it
20:49.52brlcadprepares to go see wallE
20:50.15pacman87theory is when it should work, but doesn't.  practice is when it works, but no one know why/
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21:37.19*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code! || Release 7.12.4 is posted (source-only release)
21:53.47pacman87wireframe: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_wf01.png
21:53.59pacman87and raytrace: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_rt07.png
21:56.44``Erik<PROTECTED>
22:06.38pacman87should i use 8 or 16 sketch slices in the wireframe?
22:21.01*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5B14D704.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:24.40CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31660 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c: rt_revolve_plot() now works for sketches consisting of straight line segments
23:47.35starseekerpacman87: neat!
23:47.53pacman87straigh lines only, atm
23:48.05starseekerstill cool :-)
23:48.11pacman87yeah :)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080628

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080628

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16:30.37CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31661 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcConstraint.h pcNetwork.h pcVariable.h solver_test.cpp): Stage 3/4 : Basic constraint solver implemented by solve() funtion in BinaryNetwork class- No backtracking ; Modifications to Variable Class structure and Constraint Class methods
16:35.09*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
16:38.22starseekerwanders over to the cmake site...
16:41.59*** join/#brlcad homovulgaris (n=homovulg@202.63.233.61)
16:43.28homovulgarispacman87: hi :) how are things going :)
16:50.12pacman87homovulgaris: pretty good, have you seen my screenshots?
16:50.26homovulgarisnope
16:50.34homovulgaristhe line segments are working good ?
16:50.36pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/
16:50.47pacman87look at the rev_rtXX.png
16:50.58pacman87and rev_wf01.png is the wireframe
16:53.47homovulgarislooks neat ;)
16:54.03pacman87i put rt_nul_params into table.c instead of rt_revolve_params
16:54.06homovulgarishow are the sketches made finally :) ?
16:54.21pacman87that one i imported
16:54.42homovulgarisok.. :)
16:55.28homovulgarisabout rt_revolve_params .. hmm yeah well since revolve is like a derived object, the way parameters are specified would be different .. :)
16:55.40pacman87probably similar to extrude
16:55.59homovulgarisyeah.. very similar to extrude..i havent worked on the C files and primitives parts for sometime..
16:56.21homovulgarishave been working mostly on modeling the constraint solver and graph generation
16:56.22pacman87yeah, i checked the hyp_params() to see what was going on
16:56.38pacman87it's just return 0;
16:56.40homovulgarispresently none of the params() do anything :D
16:58.50pacman87gets food
16:59.19homovulgarisjust had around 500 grams of chicken
16:59.58homovulgarisdid u see mafm's gui :) ?
17:00.14homovulgarisi finally was able to get it running yesterday ;)
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17:43.57Byron1using oed, if you have a set of metal plates within a box can you move the set of plates as a whole in the box
18:02.25starseekerByron1:  If the plates are in a combination or region, yes
18:26.25Byron1starseeker thanks I was able to make it work.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080629

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080629

01:42.22*** join/#brlcad PrezKennnedy (n=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
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10:59.56ghostknifeWhere can I find archer?
11:00.55ghostknifeor wait I have it in tclscripts
11:00.59ghostknifebut it's not finding it
11:01.54ghostknifeError in startup script: can't find package Archer 1.0
11:04.01ghostknifedammit, this thing is bugyg
11:05.30ghostknifeI create a new database in mged, create metaball, crash because it runs free() on the same pointer twice
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12:03.27Mouettehave you the OpenGL libraries in your solaris platform?
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12:31.21brlcadghostknife: backtrace?
12:32.26brlcadMouette: maybe, probably
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17:24.02yukonbobhello, cadheads
17:54.14brlcadhowdy yukonbob
18:00.53ghostknifebrlcad: are you the creator?
18:07.52brlcadghostknife: BRL-CAD was started by Mike Muuss
18:08.29ghostknifeYeah I know. The PING god
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18:23.10CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31662 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c: ws
18:32.45*** join/#brlcad homovulgaris (n=homovulg@202.63.233.61)
18:45.36homovulgarisis thinking about functors for specific constraint evaluation :|
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19:24.18CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31663 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcConstraint.h solver_test.cpp): variadic function based constructor for Constraint to support easy addition of variable number of variables
19:26.03``Erikputs the 'puters away and prepares for flight
19:27.18homovulgaris:) flying by urself ?
19:28.06homovulgarisand Erik did u check if pkg-config was working . I mean i saw that sean edited the names to represent internal names . but on my system it still complains of datarootdir not declared
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20:03.19smurfetteyes, he is flying by himself :)
20:03.36smurfetteto come and visit me :D
20:10.32homovulgaris:)
20:11.01homovulgarisI love pancakes :D
20:17.24homovulgarisbrlcad: :( sourceforge not accepting my mail to devel-list
20:19.41homovulgaristhey say : that the other server returned was: 550 550 This message matches a blacklisted regular expression (pharma ban) (state 18)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080630

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080630

00:42.27*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@c-76-100-13-240.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
00:45.35brlcadsmurfette: enjoy :)
00:45.52brlcadsells all his wordly possessions while he's away
00:46.17brlcadi suppose he's there by now, or will be soon
00:46.48brlcadhomovulgaris: hmm, can you forward me the rejection?
00:47.07brlcadyou've sent to it before...
00:48.48homovulgarisyeah i have .. dunno why it is rejecting this time
00:48.59brlcadand if you need functors (which i sorta assumed you would.. for representing a given 'compiled' constraint), that boost constraint library becomes even more interesting :)
00:50.52homovulgarisyeah.. basically i am very much keen on using functors ;) major on my TODO list
00:51.45brlcadis_tangent, is_parallel, etc
00:52.08homovulgarisbasically binary constraints are nothing compared to the actual generic constraint problems.. so writing a generic solver is gonna be pretty tough..
00:52.21homovulgaris:) nice challenge i mean ;)
00:52.39brlcadhm, you should document your TODO list actually in the TODO
00:53.26homovulgarisbrlcad: have a look at this, decently simple introduction to basic concepts of constraint solution http://kti.mff.cuni.cz/~bartak/constraints/index.html
00:53.38brlcadit's supposed to be a basic scratch-pad file for those sorts of thoughts/plans, not rigid format nor formalized, just notes
00:53.56homovulgarishmm.. the main TODO.. do i add a new section called libpc and add bullets ?
00:54.38homovulgarisok.. sent the mail btw. both the original message and the rejection :)
00:56.19brlcadhomovulgaris: mm, yeah, you could add a new section, or create either a TODO or README in src/libpc
00:56.56brlcadif they're "definitely going to happen" notes, then they probably belong at the top-level
00:56.59homovulgarishey sean, in the TODO what do we mean by integration of BRL-CAD Overview and Industry diagrams. I was pretty impressed by the Industry diagram :) neat spanning representation
00:57.20brlcadintegrating them into svn somehow
00:57.32homovulgarishmm.. I think i will create a TODO in the libpc and refine things from there to the main :)
00:57.44brlcadthey're not revision controllable/controlled at the moment, they were drafted up with proprietary tools
00:58.04homovulgarisok..
00:58.05brlcadtry not to be too isolationist.. :)
00:58.28homovulgaris:D
00:58.30brlcadreduction of "stuff" to maintain is a good thing
00:58.49homovulgarisfinally i had to return to my college due to the rains :) going home on 2nd july now..
00:59.34homovulgarisand the 2200 train journey is shifted to a crappy flight
00:59.38homovulgarisloves trains
00:59.57homovulgarissean, we don't have a problem with variadic functions right ?
01:00.13brlcadseriously, I smile .. but it's a natural tendancy of new devs in particular, low maintenance and integrated is key regardless of the mechanisms
01:00.40homovulgarisi mean we dont have to think about compilers which don't support them. I mean i dont know of any
01:01.07brlcadnah, varargs are fine when used appropriately
01:01.14brlcadtypechecking them can be a bitch
01:01.16homovulgarishmm.. ok.. will try to keep it as integrated as possible.. :) I don't want to end up writing code which becomes useless in a short time :D
01:01.24brlcadand having the right signatures if they're publicly exposed
01:01.50homovulgarisjust for the constructor of constraint class right now
01:02.34brlcadthat's also why a great first step is getting the primitives using the library for their simple validation needs -- if that much is easily understood and simple enough, using and extending the library for modeling purposes can more readily follow
01:03.43brlcadhomovulgaris: I also haven't reviewed whether you're using any stl types in libpc's public API .. that's usually taboo/problematic
01:04.20homovulgarishmm.. so i think i should write my own list and vector ?
01:04.33brlcadhells no, not if you can avoid it
01:04.51brlcaddepends just where in the api it is
01:05.20brlcadi love the stl containers, they're just hell for windows binary compatibility
01:05.24homovulgarishmm.. ok right now lots of transfer between objects takes place using lists
01:05.58homovulgaristhat should be removed i guess ? i mean if it is not exposed it is not an issue ?
01:06.20brlcadhell => not generally portable to anything but the OS and version it was compiled for
01:06.52brlcadi guess it really depends how the windows build is set up
01:07.13homovulgarishmm... :) grr.. so i need to do some figuring out in that direction
01:07.27brlcadif libpc is set up as a static lib and resolves everything in librt et al, then it won't matter  (but that's a bigger pita)
01:07.42brlcadI wouldn't worry about it too much at this point
01:08.01homovulgarishmm.. static.. k.. lets see
01:08.16brlcadboth std lists and vectors can be easily turned into bu_lists if we need to
01:08.57homovulgarisbu_list is kewl.. that example was pretty explanatory
01:08.58brlcadmake the public api call a bu-wrapper that turns them into stl on the backend
01:10.47homovulgarishmm.. as i mentioned in the mail, i think i need to do the work i left of at the C part of things bridging the interface between all these C++ classes and the C structs
01:10.51brlcadif you want to worry about that now, great, if not we can look into it before anything is exposed to external developers
01:12.05homovulgarisI think mid july would be a good time.
01:12.15homovulgarisadding to TODO
01:14.14homovulgarissean, another thing i was thinking about was, when we actually implement constraints, for supporting generic constraint evaluation, is it worth considering runtime code generation
01:15.18homovulgarisone way of evaluation is basically a stack parser which is relatively easy to code
01:15.18brlcadexample?
01:16.02brlcadbah, sf.net lists aren't responding at the moment, I'll have to check on it later
01:17.00homovulgarislike any constraint involving a set of parameters and operations on them ( X^5 + YZ^3 -f(P&Q) ) or some complex expression of the sort
01:17.20brlcadpresumably you mean some parser for tokenizing and evaluating the expression(s)
01:17.39homovulgarisyeah that is one solution.
01:18.12homovulgarisby runntime code generation, I mean actually coding and compiling the function so that we save computational time
01:18.54homovulgarisbecause that same expression will have to be evaluated for a large number of possible value sets of (X,Y,P ,Q)
01:19.29smurfettebrlcad: no he isnt here yet, he took some obnoxiously long flight that has a 1.5 hour layover in minnesota :P
01:19.49smurfetteminnesota isnt exactly between here and there, its WAY out of the way :(
01:19.57brlcadsmurfette: ah
01:20.26smurfetteso i have to pick him up at 11 cst
01:20.39brlcadyou going to be waiting in a white summer dress in high heels with a white hat?
01:20.45brlcadpainted in blue?
01:21.04smurfettehaha, of course!
01:21.51smurfettei need to dye my hair yellow too
01:22.24brlcadhomovulgaris: I get what it is and what it's for, but not how your actual question relates to what you were planning on doing
01:23.35homovulgarishmm.. :D I am pretty fuzzy on that too .. just started thinking about it
01:24.32brlcadif you have expression trees/graphs, then each node is a potential function
01:25.06brlcadthe mere nature of parsing the expression into an in-memory graph structure that is evaluated should be reasonable for most purposes
01:25.43brlcadturning the whole expression into some new dynamic function is probably overkill (or at least not a project for *this* summer given everything else that is needed)
01:26.02homovulgarishmm.. k i was thinking that probably the graph traversal would eat up time :D and yeah :) overkill
01:26.23brlcadsince if you *really* needed the performance for some given expression, then that would really sound like some missing pre-existing function
01:26.59homovulgarisand eitherways i think i should first implement the parser rather than worrying about optimization
01:27.14brlcadi sort of seem to think we'll end up with a set of available "precompiled" functions, similar to the excel macros if you will, that basically let you write expressions that use some syntax like TANGENT(this_sphere, that_plane), etc
01:27.38brlcadwhich amounts in code to a is_tangent() callback or somesuch
01:27.55brlcadjust like is_odd(), is_perpendicular(), is_nonnegative, etc
01:28.28homovulgarishmm.. i was thinking of macros
01:29.42brlcadif you're going to need an *actual* parser, I would recommend sticking to either a) lex/yacc, b) using a standard interpreter, c) using the spirit portion of boost
01:30.35brlcadgoes to let the dog out
01:31.16homovulgarisgrr.. workrave message .. k.. i will check out the parser options
01:44.04brlcadwe do a) and b) in other places in brl-cad already -- and by b) I mean something like using the tcl interpreter that we already integrate with (from the C side)
01:44.27brlcadc) becomes an option simply because you're already using boost and it's cross-platform
01:44.47brlcadhaving a BNF for the expressions would be ideal
01:45.32brlcadand intentionally not some custom hand-rolled parser even if it seems more simple at the start, less maintainable
01:46.40homovulgarishmm.. TODO: BNF
01:48.57homovulgarislet me see what boost has to offer .. i have never used tcl.. Basically the parsing would happen on the objects passed from the C side of things generating functions which would be used by the C++ solvers/ constraint evaluation .. So we can have either tcl based systems or C++ based parsers
01:50.18homovulgarisbrlcad: john replied to the message i sent , did it come on the group ?
01:53.33homovulgarisand the revision controllable image would mean something xml based like svg or uml like from dia ?
01:54.01brlcadI haven't received anything yet
01:54.31brlcadhomovulgaris: something like that perhaps
01:58.32homovulgarishmm.. k i am off to  a short nap now..hopefully backtracking would be done in 2 hours after i wake up .
01:59.11brlcadcheers
02:02.14homovulgarismaybe i will do some doxygen editing ( rt division) and wiki additions and indendation/beautification after that. one day break from coding
02:03.12brlcadsounds like a plan :)
02:03.44homovulgarisshould stop sleeping at 7.40 am and follow a more regular schedule
02:03.58homovulgarisbye all :)
02:04.34brlcadit works out conveniently ;)
02:45.56brlcadhomovulgaris: fyi, I submitted a support request for the e-mail rejection
02:46.20brlcadI get the same rejection -- it happens at the mail server itself before it even gets to our mailing list
02:46.49brlcadso your message content apparently just looks too much like pharmacological spam
02:47.18brlcadmaybe the malformed url you embedded
02:50.27brlcadapparently not, just tried with it cleaned up
02:53.04brlcadnot the url at all, tried without
02:53.32brlcadhas to just be the code, which makes the filter even more absurd.. awaiting support request results
02:58.52yukonbobhello, cadheads
02:58.59brlcadhowdy
02:59.20brlcadsushi time!
03:03.07yukonbobMmmm sushi
03:04.01yukonboborders 2 toro, 2 unagi, a tomago and a rainbow roll
03:59.28starseekeris going to have to crack and see Wall-E, if the reviews are right...
03:59.54yukonbobfeh -- disney
04:00.10yukonbobboycots that evil empire
04:04.16starseekerbrlcad:  If svg is OK I can look a making versions of the diagrams...
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05:38.03starseekerbrlcad:  Well, I have a start at least:  http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/test.png
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07:34.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31664 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c:
07:34.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: rt_revolve_plot: moved variable declarations on top of the (function-)block
07:34.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: rt_revolve_prep: added missing return statement
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10:23.13mafmhi
11:54.40brlcadhowdy mafm, how was the weekend?
11:56.21brlcadstarseeker: not too shabby for that quick
11:57.18brlcadshame we can't use the same font, picky about that
11:59.03starseekerYeah, that'll be tough
11:59.17starseekerused Bitstream Vera, IIRC
11:59.55brlcadopen source font options are really weak
12:00.14starseekerloads update with more decorative bits on the brlcad outline
12:01.06starseekerIs that a worthwhile starting point?  If so I can upload the svg somewhere
12:01.12starseekeror stick it in svn
12:01.44brlcadmm, hold off for now
12:01.49starseekerk
12:03.48starseekeris unlikely to get too much closer to the exact colors without a lot of fiddling
12:04.37starseekerIf you could recover rgb, alpha settings and ordering of the ellipses from the original program that can be set up here I think...
12:05.33starseekeranyway, enough of that for now
12:05.50starseekergets ready to rumble...
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12:39.38mafmbrlcad: hot and sunny :9
12:39.39mafm:)
12:43.16mafmso did you have the chance to test the program yet?
12:43.27mafmI had to leave when homovulgaris was at it
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13:59.22``Erik*yawn*
14:01.04mafmagrees
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15:16.19PrezKennnedybrlcad, you keeping my bro busy?
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16:05.15*** join/#brlcad PrezKennnedy (n=Matthew@whitecalf.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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17:37.17mafmbye
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18:08.43brlcadPrezKennnedy: he says yes
18:10.54PrezKennnedyyou all upstairs in that open room?
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18:37.33CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31666 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CommandInterpreter.cxx CommandInterpreter.h): Several bugfixes and improvements, still WIP
18:37.33CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31667 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiCommandOverlay.cxx GuiConsole.cxx): Linking Console and CommandOverlay to CommandInterpreter
18:38.37CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31668 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Logger.h: Method to translate the log levels to strings set to public -- it's not harmful and other code can take advantage of it.
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19:07.28andrecastelohey guys
19:11.46poolioandrecastelo: how was vacation?
19:13.12andrecastelopoolio: not so good, too cold.. and i couldn't code at all
19:13.52poolioah, sorry. where'd you go?
19:14.27andrecasteloRio de Janeiro
19:22.08poolioSounds cool :)
20:55.12brlcadandrecastelo: welcome back!
20:56.29andrecastelobrlcad: thanks!
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21:31.20pooliobrlcad: I think U-V mapping just clicked in my head :D
21:31.35poolioThe whole directional trim is in relation to the coordinates defines as control points, right?
21:40.30brlcadsentance does not parse :)
21:40.51brlcadtrimmings are on surfaces
21:41.55brlcadsurfaces are defined in terms of a UV mapping, so yeah.. the trim curves are in relation to the 3d control points used for the surface
21:57.35poolioyeah...the "what is the u-v direction in relation to in 3-space" was my main confusion
21:57.58poolioI think I've got it right in my head...let me try to implement :)
21:58.43poolioAnd in terms of defining 3d control points, is it pretty arbitrary? Like, does it have to be [0,1]? The example cubes use (0,0) (0,1) (1,0) (1,1)
23:05.46brlcadzero-to-one UV mappings are usually just pretty damn convenient
23:06.54brlcadpretty common
23:32.38PrezKennnedyhey brlcad!
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080701

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080701

00:43.33CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31669 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/fast4-g.c: massive style cleanup, ws changes
00:55.46CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31670 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: quell warning, give the union in pc_p_set a name so it can be referenced
01:01.47CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31671 10/brlcad/trunk/include/common.h: quell strict ansi compilation warnings about the 'inline' keywords now in use in bu.h by turning them off if __STRICT_ANSI__ is defined
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01:08.09CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31672 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/fast4-g.c: comment out a surprising amount of logic not being used. the post-processing in particular looks useful, but will need some testing to validate behavior (or make it optional).
01:11.12CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31673 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: steven k. found out that the bump shader doesn't seem to be working.
01:13.48CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31674 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: pipe primitive has a BU_GETSTRUCT malloc getting called during raytracing. kills performance by more than an order of magnitude. thx stephen k. for provoking the bug.
01:16.58CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31675 10/brlcad/trunk/ (BUGS TODO): verified that fast4-g no longer vomits warning messages. did discover, though, that it'll annoyingly skip every other input line if you're processing a DOS file on UNIX...
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06:13.59ilya004857363Hi, I'm at first in brlcad and in fact I haven't compiled it yet.
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09:49.00mafmhi
11:03.37CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31676 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Logger.cxx: Logging the event of setting the log level, and checking that it's a proper level (and not some forged/casted value)
11:05.09CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31677 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CommandInterpreter.cxx CommandInterpreter.h): Enhancing the command display (help), and the flexibility to show information about commands themselves
11:05.54CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31678 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Commands.h: Adding a couple of commands (quit, set log level)
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12:56.25CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31679 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Commands.h Logger.cxx Logger.h): Adding Singleton and Listener patterns
14:15.02starseekerdoes text and image extraction from Volume III...
14:16.52starseekerturns read as he checks the xml conversion and notices the "role" keyword for emphasis tags
14:24.09starseekerhmm - vol3 images are stubborn
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14:27.59CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31680 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Observer.cxx Observer.h): Adding classes to implement Observer pattern
14:31.37starseekergrrr
14:33.32mafmwhat happens starseeker?
14:33.45CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31681 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (8 files): Substituted private Listener implementations for the more general Observer pattern, so we'll [hopefully] have less hassles when adding/modifying code in the future.
14:34.08starseekerI'm trying to get the 3rd volume of the tutorial series in shape to convert to Docbook, but that means image extraction
14:34.26starseekerso far none of the tools I've tried are having much luck
14:34.31mafmimage extraction from which format?
14:35.33starseekerword
14:36.36mafmuh :D
14:36.49mafmI was going to suggest imagemagick in the case that you didn't know, but...
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14:56.32``Erikhum, tcl 8.6a1 is out
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15:00.25CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31682 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (7 files): Make some general enhancements: making public-accesable attributes read-only (const), decoupling a bit more functionality of the console from the widgets implementing it, etc.
15:42.51CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31683 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (6 files): Moving basic window creation, operations and settings to base class, so we abstract and protect a bit more the code from the GUI libraries that we're using underneath.
15:47.26CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31684 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/GuiConsole.cxx: Adding content to the console panel only when the line is not empty -- otherwise we produce a spurious new-line.
16:05.31``Erikhum, breakage in libt
16:05.32``Eriklibrt
16:05.34``Erikprimitives/ell/ell.c:1659: error: 'struct pc_p_set' has no member named 'pointp'
16:05.34``Erikprimitives/ell/ell.c:1663: error: 'struct pc_p_set' has no member named 'vectorp'
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16:16.32``Erikheh
16:16.41``Erikcinelerra, clock? O.o
17:10.55starseekerAh - HAH
17:11.03starseekerbad image file in document
17:11.12starseekereven Word itself couldn't export it
17:13.57starseekerstill weird though...
17:14.06starseekerlow image quality, despite 300dpi request
17:14.18starseekerah, well - enough to start anyway
17:17.46poolio``Erik: doesn't the union need to be tagged?
17:23.10poolioneverminddd. I forget my C :(
17:25.18mafmlol
17:25.29mafmmaybe you can apply to be a manager then, poolio
17:25.49poolioI think I have to do something to warrant promotion first
17:26.11mafmI had a job interview and the guy kep talking about C and Java, when I was told that it was C++ and Java
17:26.26mafmwhen I asked he said that it was C++ really, but that he liked to call it C
17:26.30mafm(...)
17:27.23pooliowell, most your C code will compile with g++ :)
17:28.44mafmbut in that case it was the contrary.. maybe their C++ code compiles with gcc
17:28.52mafmthat would be a bit worrysome, I guess
18:47.37mafmhumm
18:47.47mafmdunno what happens today, internet life seems dead
18:48.06mafmmaybe the start of the holidays? :)
18:48.13pacman87well, my partial revolves are taking a lot longer that expected
18:50.08mafm:D
18:50.28mafmI mean also because brlcad [the man] is missing in action
18:50.37mafmbut not only in this channel
18:51.02mafmare you happy with your project, pacman87?
18:51.17pacman87so far, yes
18:51.19pacman87you?
18:53.21pacman87i'm getting 4 hitpoints when i should be getting 2
18:53.55pacman87so instead of a hit segment from (A,B), i get two segments (A,A) and (B,B)
18:54.47mafmit's quite funny and I'm learning quite a lot
18:54.55mafmso yes, pretty much so :)
19:00.11brlcad``Erik: jra is cool keywise
19:00.51brlcadah, that error in ell.c is probably due to my fix last night, didn't do a full recompile
19:01.01brlcadhomovulgaris had a bad union
19:02.14pacman87hmmm, i think my sketch has duplicate segments
19:03.12pacman87sketch
19:03.50pacman87sketch's curve.seg_count is 10, and there should be 5
19:04.42brlcadsketch you made?
19:04.56pacman87the one i imported
19:04.57pacman87yes
19:05.15brlcadif you 'l' it, does it show 10?
19:05.34pacman87says 8 verticies
19:06.20pacman87of the 8, there are three sets of repeats
19:06.48brlcadindeed sounds wrong
19:06.51pacman87and the curve lists 10 line segments
19:07.39pacman87and i've been banging my head against a wall trying to get my code working using incorrect assumptions about my sketch...
19:08.13pacman87what did you say was the best way to edit a sketch by hand?
19:08.19pacman87ie, human readable format?
19:08.32brlcadheh, i'm not sure *any* assumptions are good when it comes to geometry
19:08.53brlcadah, convert the file to ascii format
19:08.55brlcadg2asc
19:09.00brlcadedit, then asc2g
19:09.06pacman87the whole .g file?
19:09.11brlcadup to you
19:09.22brlcadif you want just the sketch, use the "keep" command
19:13.01mafmhey brlcad
19:13.05mafmso you're alive after all
19:13.56pacman87hmmm, g2asc is giving me: ERROR: bad pointer x8066e08: s/b bu_vls(x89333bbb), was Unknown_Magic(x8066f20), file vls.c, line 407
19:18.06pacman87lunchtime
19:18.33brlcadmafm: yeah, just a 'tad' bit overloaded .. :)
19:19.14brlcadI still don't have the gui up, but not for lack of effort .. just still haven't got all the deps building yet
19:20.07mafmreally? I though that it wouldn't be complicated
19:20.24mafmdebian has most of the dependencies
19:20.47brlcadwho said I was on debian?
19:21.25brlcadit's not been complicated, just annoying and time consuming
19:22.18mafmI mean that it's surprising for me, since for me it was virtually no effort for the deps
19:22.19brlcadhaven't run into a single real problem yet, just the time involved to configure the build, compile (really slow machine), test, install, etc
19:23.14brlcadvirtually no effort when you have even a couple hours to work on it is an entirely different situation :)
19:23.14mafmgood :)
19:23.21brlcadvirtually no effort != no effort
19:23.44brlcadi'm actually used to the latter, part of the emphasis on clean build system integration so it just works regardless of the platform
19:23.51mafmnot that -- it's that I didn't have to compile anything :D
19:24.32brlcadwell sure, package management systems are great for that when they're default available and when they work
19:24.43brlcadcertainly not cross-platform, though
19:28.36mafmgood enough, no rush :)
19:30.04brlcadshould work on improving/finishing that build system integration some more too ;)
19:31.23brlcadsaving users the need to hunt/download is only a small piece of the reason for including the deps, it should build them if it doesn't find a suitable system version
19:31.59brlcadalso, your cmake files presently assume pkg-config, that shouldn't be assumed
19:32.09brlcad(nor required)
19:34.33mafmI'm no expert in building systems, but that could take weeks :S
19:35.35mafm"but" is alias to "but I think" and "because of that" at the same time :)
19:35.41brlcadI don't think anyone here would call themselves a cmake expert :)
19:36.59brlcadit is something that needs to happen earlier rather than later given this tool is intended to become pretty fundamental eventually
19:37.33brlcadminimally document the need somewhere (TODO), but poke on it when you can
19:37.51mafmbut I could spend much time with it and miss the milestones with gsoc
19:39.10brlcadi understand, that doesn't change the pressing need for it ..
19:39.19brlcadthe longer it's ignored, the harder it will be for whomever does try it
19:39.52brlcadit's part of coding complete
19:40.18brlcadif the build doesn't work cleanly, it's not really usable yet to most of our devs
19:40.41mafmI see
19:41.43brlcade.g. I can't imagine bob readily being willing to futz with three different build systems plus pkg-config, cmake, and scons
19:42.25brlcadwe're used to *zero* effort unless you want to change away from defaults
19:43.45brlcadit's not top-priority in front of the milestone tasks, but it's probably #2 or #3 to have a default-functioning build system regardless of system deps
19:44.18mafmthat's fine, but I don't think that it's in the scope of the project to rework whatever building system the dependencies decide to use
19:44.34brlcadso at least document it is what I'm saying, maybe work on it if you take a break from coding
19:44.37mafmespecially being an experimental project
19:45.34brlcadfyi, I don't see this as an experiement -- a prototype, sure .. but one with an exceptionally high probability of becoming the foundation for a new GUI
19:46.22brlcadyou'd have to mess up in several big ways for it to be wasted effort :)
19:47.32mafmit seems to me that you're relaying on somebody with a weak knowledge of building for such a foundation :P
19:48.10brlcadnot relying, just don't want you to blow it off entirely as not your problem
19:49.54starseekerprods CIA
19:49.58brlcadwasn't saying drop what you're doing to work on it, just keep it in mind and poke on it when you can .. and document where things are at
19:51.15brlcadkicks CIA-22
19:51.15CIA-22ow
19:53.41starseekerhmm - must commit more, evidently
19:53.45starseekercan do...
20:03.20mafmCIA missed half of today's commits or so
20:06.41mafm~CIA-22--
20:06.42mafm:)
20:06.45mafmheading home now
20:07.20mafmnight
20:32.29*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@217-162-111-235.dclient.hispeed.ch)
21:16.13brlcadyeah, I think our bot is hosored
21:48.14*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1128564908.dsl.bell.ca)
22:11.30brlcadrather, the bot is fine but it's not getting any notifications from the main bot_server process (they're not showing up in #commits even)
22:11.37brlcadso it's something busted with the rpc relay
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080702

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080702

00:31.54*** join/#brlcad vedge (n=vedge@205-237-251-204.ilesdelamadeleine.ca)
02:53.26brlcadheh, and steadily he chugs along!
02:53.35brlcad~starseeker++
03:00.18starseekertakes break from docbook to do first kernel upgrade in quite a while - when coreutils starts needing functionality not in your current kernel it's probably time to upgrade...
03:28.42starseekerhates upgrading the kernel
03:42.01starseekercrosses fingers and prepares to take the dive...
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10:26.48mafmhi
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12:37.54starseekerkernel upgrade (apparently) successful
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13:47.39mafmbad CIA-22, bad
13:56.38starseekerno kidding
13:57.11starseekergrits his teeth and grinds through the last of the volIII images...
14:00.33mafmgo starseeker go
14:00.59mafmthink of them as the guys who stole Christmas's spirit :P
14:03.28brlcadresets the rpc backend to CIA, which seems to have shut down
14:06.57brlcadreloading
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14:17.44brlcadhugs CIA-22
14:17.44CIA-22hugs brlcad
14:20.12brlcadwelp, that didn't do the trick
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14:25.28*** part/#brlcad cad24 (n=410d42ec@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:51.54``Erikbrlcad: wrt jra, thanks much
15:24.15brlcadhugs CIA-22
15:24.16CIA-22hugs brlcad
15:38.48brlcadgives up kicking CIA-22 for now .. either massive backlog or I'm just not hitting the right notes
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18:34.52mafmbye all
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21:04.39brlcadstarseeker: great question for you on the help forum :)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080703

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00:08.19*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
01:05.41pacman87woohoo, partial revolves are working now!
01:09.05pacman87raytrace; https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_rt08.png
01:09.15pacman87wireframe: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_wf02.png
01:10.20pacman87now i need to clean up all the commented out, failed code
01:14.58pacman87i had to edit my sketch using a hex editor, though
01:15.10pacman87i never got g2asc working
01:23.13pacman87kicks CIA-22
01:23.14CIA-22ow
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02:47.15brlcadpacman87: hah, awesome!
02:47.44brlcadnever got g2asc working??
02:48.14brlcadas in it didn't work or you didn't see how to edit the sketch or something else?
02:49.14pacman87http://pastebin.com/m6efef113
02:49.54pacman87revolve angles > 180 still have a bug
02:52.53brlcadcan you pastebin the unknown-3488-bomb.log file?
02:53.48pacman87http://pastebin.com/m157c4fdd
03:05.47brlcadhrm, looks like it's corrupted somewhere before that point
03:05.55brlcadcan you post the .g somewhere?
03:06.11pacman87yeah
03:07.43pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/sk.g
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03:25.40brlcadthanks
03:27.07brlcadpacman87: huh, that succeeds for me without a hitch .. do you have a modified sketch.c ?
03:27.42pacman87no
03:30.36brlcadtries a linux host
03:39.47brlcadhm, clean on ubuntu
03:52.55pacman87fixed my bug
03:54.06pacman87CIA-22 is still dead...
03:54.56brlcadthe bot is alive, but yeah notifications are still down
03:55.10brlcadI worked on it for a few hours this morning
03:55.35pacman87more pretty pictures: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_rt09.png
03:55.45pacman87and wireframe: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_wf03.png
03:55.58brlcadeither the problem is on sf.net's end or I totally missed where things are amiss on cia.vc
03:56.55brlcadneat :)
03:58.16brlcadbtw, if you'd like a book to help you with revolve or sweep, lemme know
03:58.38pacman87do you have a book that'd be useful?
03:58.50brlcadnope :)
03:59.13pacman87revolve is shaping up nicely
03:59.20brlcadi think i've already sent you the few research papers that I've read that relate to it
04:00.00pacman87and it's good i'm doing revolve first, rather than jumping head-first into sweep
04:00.10brlcadhm, your sketch.c line numbers don't match up with head source
04:01.25pacman87yeah, i just did a svn up and it said it was updated
04:01.32pacman87so i'm recompiling
04:06.07brlcadupdate again (just now)
04:06.16brlcadadded a sanity check
04:06.41pacman87i think i'm still on ./configure...
04:07.00brlcadheh, configure?  you updated a Makefile.am?
04:07.11pacman87no, i started over jsut in case
04:07.15brlcadah
04:07.34pacman87make clean; autogen.sh; configure --enable-all; make; make install;
04:10.12pacman87i think i'm just going to go to bed
04:11.14brlcadearly :)
04:11.40brlcadcya tomorrow
04:11.54pacman87yeah, my parents go to bed early
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04:45.06starseekerbrlcad:  Cool, thanks for the heads up :-)
04:45.09starseekeranswers
04:47.01starseekerNuts, IIRC this was covered in the draft NIRT writeup...
04:52.24brlcadgood answer
04:52.31starseekerthanks :-)
04:52.44starseekerthe iges-g item below it looks like the same crash I got
04:53.58starseekerThat luck sonofagun got the backtrace easy - I had to manually walk through it
04:54.03starseekers/luck/lucky
04:54.35starseekerLooks like the same steps though
04:55.17starseekerbrlcad:  If that's the case, the openmoko files with the -n option DO trigger this on Linux, but not on the Mac
04:55.50starseekerthe openmoko conversion ran to conclusion on the Mac for the openmoko as well (didn't display, but it did finish converting)
04:56.15brlcadsounds like it needs some debugger and/or valgrind love
04:57.21starseekerThe valgrind report complained about something all right, but it wasn't immediately helpful to me
04:57.29starseekerwants to take another run at it
04:57.53starseekeriirc, valgrind spat out an error and then ran screaming (metaphorically)
04:59.01starseekerotoh, I am just finishing up with a massive system upgrade so I'll see if that did anything - iirc there was a valgrind update in there
04:59.35starseekershould make a bug report and reference the duplication in this post...
05:10.41starseekerdoes
05:27.39pacman87brlcad: g2asc works now
05:27.47pacman87really goes to bed now
05:45.36brlcadodd, maybe just libraries out of sync .. I don't know of any actual code changes that would have affected/caused/fixed that crash in the least
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08:56.03wuxiathe wireframe model for brlcad -- it's opengl based?
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10:36.45mafmhi
10:37.13pooliomornin mafm
10:45.19mafm'sup
11:32.14brlcad(for the now gone wuxia) the wireframe can be drawn using a variety of (equivalent) backends
11:32.21brlcadmornin' gents
11:44.07starseekermorning
11:47.50archivisthmm coverity is looking at the source http://scan.coverity.com/rung1.html
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13:17.10brlcadarchivist: it's been at that status for over a year .. it's stuck
13:17.24brlcadwe have far more than 178k lines of code :)
13:17.58archivistew
13:18.03brlcadDavid Maxwell is overloaded trying to get an automated system in place right now
13:19.06brlcadwe would be the #4 or #5 largest code in there otherwise, somewhere between 1M and 3M depending on what they count
13:21.05archivistI shall watch with interest (trying to get my C head back on at the moment)
13:22.33brlcadit's like watching paint dry ..
13:23.28mafmbrlcad: did you get to compile Ogre at least? I'm stuck since, for some reason, I can't get it to compile now
13:23.31brlcadfrom what he was saying, running coverity on BRL-CAD broke their scanner at frist
13:24.04brlcadit also didn't have a means to ignore 3rd party sources and/or he didn't set it up
13:24.48brlcadmafm: yes -- I didn't have trouble compiling the deps other than the time factor itself
13:24.56archivistheh fun for him
13:25.21mafmmacs have a pentium4, don't they?
13:25.31brlcadmafm: that's probably enough 'poking' for now, I did say just occasionally poke on it :)
13:26.03brlcadmacs can have x86 or ppc cpus
13:26.11brlcad32bit and 64bit
13:26.54mafmI mean yours
13:27.02brlcadi have several i use
13:27.22brlcadi'm actually on a ppc right this second
13:28.09brlcadany particular reason?
13:28.30mafmbecause it's failing for me in an optimized version for SSE instructions
13:29.39mafmso with PPC you don't have the problem, but I do
13:30.19brlcadI can give it a go later today on an Intel, but not too surprising with a random point of their svn trunk
13:30.51brlcadI'd say don't worry about it since you have another path that works
13:31.17brlcadyou definitely shouldn't be fixing 3rd party sources this early
13:31.41brlcadeven integrated we avoid that like the plague
13:32.33mafmwell, yes, but I had it working before and I barely changed my system in the last months, so it's strange
13:32.55mafmand apart from that, I don't know if automatic compilation && installation works
13:34.49brlcadnods
13:35.39brlcadwell I can certainly test and work on the latter from here
13:36.02brlcadyou've got some more pieces plugged in
13:36.35brlcadinvestigating what's changed since your last test, well .. :)
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13:38.16brlcadnifty, http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~maverick/VimColorSchemeTest/index-pl.html
13:44.44mafmneat
13:44.52mafmnow ogre works
13:46.01mafmI think that they should substitute clean&distclean for mrproper like the linux kernel :P
13:56.47mafmif I maintain ogre & the like as PHONY, then it repeats the configuration && compilation steps when I do make install
13:56.54mafmis there an easy way to fix this?
14:13.32brlcadif you make them phony, you have a build rule for them?
14:13.41brlcadin there you'd have to do your own timestamping
14:13.46brlcadat least with plain makefiles
14:14.18brlcadthe better integration route will be to hook it into a cmake configuration step so it doesn't even traverse those paths (but leave that for later since cmake isn't a forte)
14:14.25brlcads/later/someone else/
14:17.48mafmI have "all" and "install", and then a function for each one
14:18.06mafmso all,ogre,ois...,install,install-ogre...
14:18.11mafmand install-ogre depending on ogre
14:18.22mafmand PHONY ogre, ois
14:18.43mafmso unless you call "make install" initially, it's repeated twice
14:20.15mafmso people having cmake && pkg-config; and some dependencies of OGRE (I think that only DevIL is needed), can get it up and running by just:
14:20.29mafmcd src/other; su -c "make install"
14:20.56mafmand then compile g3d with cmake && make as usual
14:21.06brlcadk, that's much better than it was ;)
14:21.10mafmno SCons needed now or other manual commands
14:21.20mafmto copy libraries
14:21.35mafmsince I made pkg-config files for Mocha & RBGui in the Cmake-files themselves
14:21.59brlcadthere's almost guaranteed to be cross-platform build issues still, but none that have to be addressed now
14:22.11mafmmaybe I should explain this in the mailing list so ppl start testing it before the midterm evaluation?
14:22.42brlcadsure!
14:22.45mafmoh yes btw -- about paths and so on, I'm assuming Unixes only
14:23.15mafmand I guess that even Macs won't accept all paths and things like that
14:23.19brlcadoh, I mean issues in their code, other build system assumptions
14:24.12mafmOGRE and OIS should be multi-platform, but Mocha and RBGui's Cmake-files were made by the guy who created the RPM and me, so...
14:24.16brlcade.g. one of them was already using cmake iirc, but they made assumptions that if you ran "make" after cmake that you were on linux, and started compiling linux-specific files
14:24.41brlcadyou had to go to the generated xcode project instead and manually install the files after compile
14:24.53brlcada lame busted assumption on their part
14:25.14brlcadnot cmake's fault, they made it behave that way (perhaps by accident/ignorance)
14:25.45brlcadanyways, not important for now.. :)
14:26.22mafmI guess that you meant RBGui
14:26.34brlcadi forget which it was
14:26.42mafmthe problem with RBGui is that they published the SVN site in Ogre forums, but just that
14:27.02mafm(it was RBGui because OIS and OGRE don't have it, and for Mocha I created it yesterday)
14:27.23mafmso that's why RBGui and Mocha need external patches to even compile in Linux/GCC
14:27.28brlcadnods
14:27.40brlcadclassic corporate toss-over-the-wall
14:27.51mafmand one of RBGui's patches was the CMake-files themselves, so...
14:27.52brlcadruns off to a meeting
14:28.03mafmok, so I'll write to the mailing list :)
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17:59.53mafmbye
18:13.45starseekerbrlcad:  Would it be useful to add stresstest.c to the repository, or should it just live in the bug report?
18:14.02starseekeronly asks because he is afraid of accidently committing the makefile logic he has to build it
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19:08.02andrecastelohey guys
19:08.59pacman87hi andrecastelo
19:52.57brlcadstarseeker: stresstest.c ?
19:53.09brlcadhowdy andrecastelo
20:18.34pooliohowdy brlcad, get my note?
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20:28.41brlcadpoolio: yup, welcome home
20:29.15brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/~sean/tmp/nmg_brep2.cpp
20:33.50brlcadinteresting, updated quarterly stats on OS distributions: 71% Windows XP, 16% Windows Vista, 8% Mac OS X, 2% Windows 2000, 1% Linux  (and leaving about 2% unknown)
20:34.50brlcads/unknown/iphone, playstation, etc/
20:36.48pooliobrlcad: danke
20:39.40prasad1so i visited firaxis yesterday
20:39.52prasad1finally got to do it
20:39.53prasad1heh
20:40.46prasad12 pool tables, a ping pong table, 3 console centers, a cpl of arcade machines...
20:40.48prasad1yup..
20:52.07poolioprasad1: isn't that near baltimore?
20:52.19prasad1hunt valley
20:52.43starseekerponders stress test proc-db which is also useful and remembers the spring idea
20:53.02starseekerlooks up spring characterization...
20:56.39starseekerfigures this one will have to be on his own time - large scale spring generation and usage is unlikely...
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080704

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080704

04:53.30*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1128564908.dsl.bell.ca)
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10:40.09mafmhi
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12:21.51clock_clock@duke:~$ png_info tbl_300dpi.png
12:21.51clock_color type: RGB with alpha channel (bit depth=8)
12:21.51clock_Image size: 3417 X 4961
12:21.51clock_not interlaced
12:21.51clock_Segmentation fault
12:23.36clock_how do I determine the version of BRL-CAD?
12:28.45clock_Oh it's the ..4
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14:01.51``Erikhappy independance day for the dirty americans in the room O.o
14:08.40mafmo_O
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14:46.10``Erikquatro de explodo
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16:45.09pooliobrlcad: so I'm at the point in b-rep code where everything looks fine but it's not valid and I can't understand the cryptic errors :(
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18:02.40ewilhelmbrlcad, you going to siggraph this year?
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19:13.23pacman87hard at work: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/work.jpg
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21:58.19Darknesssis this still a channel for libirc?
21:58.47Darknesssif it ever was
22:03.00Darknesssanyone alive?
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23:39.20dic003585498I have compiled brlcad from source with option -enable-all, but it offers a [nu] version only, with no graphics!! What is wrong?
23:50.30pacman87dic003585498: are you running mged?
23:50.40pacman87and what OS are you on?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080705

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080705

00:00.39dic003585498Ubuntu 8.04, /usr/brlcad/mged -n new.g
00:01.12dic003585498yes, see my www.ansysED.narod.ru
00:02.03pacman87try -c
00:03.44dic003585498ok
00:05.09dic003585498he says, attach (nu)[nu]?
00:05.58dic003585498while I want to 'attach' X, ogl, or opengl
00:06.14pacman87mine says "attach (nu|X|ogl)[nu]?"
00:06.36dic003585498yours is better than mine...
00:07.18pacman87i don't really know what else to tell you
00:07.29pacman87you could try on monday when more ppl are around
00:07.54pacman87today is independance day in the US
00:09.58dic003585498ok, today I do not know "what a day today", I sit behind my new laptop... b there were a problem with Xlib.h whilst 'make' command... I will have tried something while my internet session is cheap
00:13.33pacman87i'm out, good luck
00:13.46dic003585498I think you had probably played in that game, called PacMan in '87...
00:13.50dic003585498ok
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06:59.48yukonbobhello, cadheads
07:02.28pacman87howdy, yukonbob
07:03.42yukonbobhey pacman87
07:03.49yukonbobwhat are you doing up at this hour?
07:04.14pacman87talking to a girl on aim
07:04.30pacman87and sorting out my fireworks pictures
07:04.31yukonbobheh. nice
07:04.40pacman87forgot a tripod
07:04.45yukonbobfeh
07:04.53yukonboblots of blurry coloured lines?
07:05.00pacman87had to use a lawn chair instead
07:05.07pacman87so instead of random wiggles
07:05.13pacman87it's all up and down wiggles
07:05.18yukonbobnods
07:05.29pacman87some came out alright
07:05.35pacman87a lot were overexposed
07:05.56yukonbobdigital or to film?
07:06.03pacman87and there were some annoying parkign lot lights in the way
07:06.08pacman87digital
07:06.38pacman87if you're interested: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/fireworks/
07:06.55yukonbobfires up X11
07:07.18pacman87isnt' there some jpg to ascii convertor?
07:08.36yukonbobheh -- something like libcaca, or aalib (I believe) -- I only know them for mpgs (and bet that's the only place they're really useful)
07:09.02pacman87i think i saw the original star wars in ascii somewhere
07:09.54yukonbobare there ravers with their glow-sticks parading around too? ;)
07:10.34pacman87little kids, lightsabers
07:10.56pacman87i thought it looked kinda neat with the long exposure
07:12.19yukonbob3299 looks like it's embossed
07:15.26pacman87the second two were of a plane flying by
07:15.30pacman87if you were wondering
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15:29.19andrecastelohey guys
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16:05.54Jo1hey =)
16:32.43``Eriksalut
16:41.21andrecastelohi ``Erik
17:00.52jooivindfinnaly brlcad working ;)
17:01.32jooivindhow does brl-cad compare to autocad ?
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18:50.04``Erik'sup, andre? how's the mlt going?
18:50.36``ErikBRL-CAD is mostly designed for solid modelling with high resolution for physics simulation type shtuff
18:50.50``Erikautocad is designed more as a drafting package for making blueprints
18:52.02``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/w/images/4/44/Industry_Diagram.pdf  will help you see the difference :)
19:13.34jooivindthank you kind sir
19:13.35jooivind;)
19:13.46jooivindi feel autocad is kind of bloated
19:14.19jooivindbut (imo) very intuitive, just the system requrements is kind of high
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23:54.29wuxiaanyone have good papers for : (1) implementing constructive solid geometry on water tight meshes and (2) converting things like spheres, cylinders, etc .. intol meshes
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080706

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080706

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14:26.04ilya0044566tommorov, there will be a lot of people in here...
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15:53.23Axman6sure
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080707

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080707

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06:14.41yukonbobhello , cadheds
06:14.47yukonbob*cadheads
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06:15.59yukonbobuhhhhhhh
06:16.29yukonbobthere are andrecastelo's popping up like mushrooms in here..
06:16.37yukonbobset out the traps...
06:52.29brlcadhowdy yukonbob
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10:10.02mafmhello
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13:11.59pacman87morning, all
13:14.09mafmmorning
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14:42.22pacman87d_rossberg & brlcad: the revolve axis is currently set as the sketch's y-axis.  it would be fairly easy to allow the user to specify a different x coordinate to revolve about -- would this be useful, or would it be better assume that the sketch is setup properly?
14:43.24pacman87if the sketch editor could be extended to handle transformations (translation, rotation, scale)
14:43.58pacman87that would probably work better
14:44.31pacman87allow more flexablilty with sketches, and avoid the extra computation doing the translation each time in revolve
14:45.50brlcadewilhelm: yes
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14:59.45``ErikO.o
15:05.09brlcadpacman87: "no comment" .. i.e. I defer to you and d_rossberg on that one
15:05.47pacman87i'm assuming the curent sketch editor doesnt already do that...
15:08.26brlcadpresent sketch editor is crappy
15:09.11``Erikhum, now tcl and tk have 8.5.3 out
15:09.13brlcadit'll let you translate, but only edge/curve at a time
15:09.35brlcadpresently no scaling or rotation, though they would be trivial to add
15:10.02brlcadyou just have this absolute 2D coordinate space that you work in, create your sketch
15:11.13pacman87should i start a 'wish list' for the editor?
15:13.06brlcadsure
15:14.11brlcadcould add a section to the TODO specifically for it or a new file somewhere in doc or in src/primitives/sketch etc
15:14.52``Erikit might be better to add it to the orange page or make something similar to that, then migrate those to the TODO in svn when people agree?
15:15.46d_rossbergpacman87: to use the y-axis as the revolve axis is ok for now
15:16.35pacman87how much sketch checking should i do?
15:17.00pacman87ie, make sure it's a closed loop?
15:17.07d_rossbergwhat kind of checks do you need
15:17.52d_rossbergyou could also have some kind of default behavior if it's not closed
15:18.02pacman87closed loop, everything on the + side of the y-axis
15:18.49d_rossbergwhy not on the - side?
15:19.26pacman87my algorithm for partial revolves assumes + only
15:20.25pacman87is there an application for partial revolves on the - side too?
15:22.49d_rossbergi don't know (at the moment) but you can have a sketch with the rotation axis moving through (but this can be done by two rotatons too)
15:23.14d_rossbergpacman97: BTW the sketch_name in rt_revolve_internal has a problem
15:23.53d_rossbergin asc2g there will be no memory allocated for it, and in ifree not freed
15:24.13pacman87i noticed the asc2g problem
15:24.18d_rossbergmaybe you should use bu_vls there
15:25.02d_rossberg(%S format in bu_structparse)
15:25.21d_rossbergsee the dsp primitive for reference
15:25.41pacman87ok, i was basing it more on the extrude
15:27.00d_rossbergthe extrude has it's own adjust function
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17:00.34brlcad``Erik: possibly, though the TODO doesn't cover "big picture"/project goals like the orange page, they tend to be much smaller tasks
17:00.52brlcada section on the website/wiki would be good for that though, for sure
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18:08.05ilya0044566after the installation, brlcad 7.10 has not offered mr graphical mode in ubuntu 8.04, and i have problems with some libraries for X as Xlib.h. What librarie(s) shall I use?
18:09.47*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
18:10.47ilya0044566in linux [ubuntu] - what libraries for X Window system shall I use? do i need something 'huge' as OpenGL?
18:12.28ilya0044566People leave the room, than they enter the room. It's kind of-a life, it is kind of-a "this's the way life is, yeah..."
18:23.14d_rossbergilya0044566: you should use the head version from the subversion repository for Ubuntu 8.04
18:25.00mafmI go now, bye
18:25.06ilya0044566head version of which librarie - I have non-cheap internet traffic - this is a problem...
18:26.12d_rossbergand for the xlib you need some X development package (xserver-xorg-dev?)
18:28.17ilya0044566so, after the installation into new system it has offered me only [nu] at the startup... Is it something well-known, or I just 2 greedy 2 install libraries? I'lltry xorg-dev and others...
18:30.11d_rossberg~brlsvn
18:30.40pacman87~svncad
18:30.47pacman87~cadsvn
18:30.47ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
18:30.49ilya0044566~brlsvn - what is it?
18:30.51ibotilya0044566: okay
18:31.39ilya0044566"okay" - what is it?
18:31.56d_rossbergilya0044566: ~cadsvn shown the url uf brl-cad's subversion repository
18:32.23ilya0044566okay
18:32.28d_rossberguse your subversion client wih this url to check out the latest version of brlcad
18:33.03d_rossberg(~brlsvn was mistyped)
18:34.04ilya0044566ok, but i'm 2 greedy 2 spend 20 mb of traffic, i'm www.ansysED.narod.ru and i'm new 2 open source...
18:36.21d_rossbergthat's probable a problem, brl-cad version 7.12.4 (and probable the versions before) has a problem with Ubuntu 8.04
18:37.12d_rossberghowever, you could try to get the X window working
18:37.27ilya0044566yes, and ubuntu, probably, might have a lot more libraries at the "plain" installation...
18:38.19d_rossbergby instaling did you install the xserver-xorg-dev package of Ubuntu?
18:39.57d_rossbergor the xorg-dev package?
18:40.08ilya0044566ther were no any options... it's a cd image... only onr cd, but kubuntu's dvd I had was 'empty' too - I compare it with versions of ASPLinux on 4 cd's...
18:41.13pacman87d_rossberg: the other thing for checking sketches is the order of the spline curves
18:42.10ilya0044566i don't really know... "essentials libraries for X window system" - this make a sence... I just can't spend traffic for a while... but i surely will have a brlcad installed!
18:42.25d_rossbergilya0044566: do you update or upgrade your system via internet?
18:43.13ilya0044566no, 1mb equals 0.1 US $
18:44.01d_rossbergilya0044566: you probaly have to install the development packeges via internet (because they are not essential for using the other software)
18:44.19ilya0044566ok, ...corporations still 'milking' good guys :(
18:45.27ilya0044566ok. i need 2 quit now... My frien says his program Pro-Engeneer can point the dimensions to the model, and to prepare views... Without autocad, i want to mix BRLCAD with QCAD... Am I right, or there are another ways?
18:46.42ilya0044566'other ways' - to be correct...
18:47.58d_rossbergpacman87: sure, they have to have a low degree (2 or so), will it be done in the prep function?
18:48.11ilya0044566ok, i quit for about 1.5 days
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18:48.47pacman87i was thinking about adding a function to sketch.c
18:48.58pacman87and calling it from rt_revolve_prep()
18:49.07pacman87since the sweep will need that check too
18:50.25d_rossbergwill sweep work with the same degree of spline (i.e. sketch) curves as the revolve?
18:51.09pacman87yes, that's the plan
18:51.16d_rossberg... maybe yes if we think of a sweep as a series of revolves (?)
18:53.26pacman87essentially, yes
18:53.51pacman87for revolve, i'm mappign the ray into 2d, then finding intersections
18:55.08d_rossbergpacman87: therefore you plan to implement a function which checks the maximum degree of a sketch in sketch.c and call it from revolve.c and sweep.c, that sounds good for me
18:55.49pacman87what should i name it?
18:56.11d_rossbergas for the closed loop: you can require a closed loop or close it with a default method
18:57.25d_rossbergare there any similar functions to guess the name?
18:57.26pacman87if it's not closed, the only thing that makes sense is if the two endpoints are on the y-axis
18:58.27pacman87there's an rt_check_curve()
18:59.11d_rossbergfor example, closing the sketch automatically would make the primitive more robust
18:59.27pacman87ideally, i'd return the degree of the sketch, so if someone else needs it, it's there
18:59.50d_rossbergrt_check_sketch_degree()
18:59.51pacman87close by line segment from end to start?
19:02.57d_rossbergclosing the sketch: from the y-axis to the first point by a straight line, from the last point of one segment to the first point of the next segment by a straight line, from the last point to the y-axis by a straight line (for all: if it is not already closed)
19:04.38d_rossbergthe result of automatic closing may be not what the user want but he sees what he did
19:05.15d_rossbergthis is better than seeing nothing but the error message
19:05.16pacman87yeah, depends on how 'smart' i make the algorithm
19:05.31pacman87since there could be several disjointed segments
19:06.04pacman87or unconnected sets of segments
19:06.54d_rossbergyes, the sketch can be very ugly, even if it is closed
19:07.11pacman87self intersecting
19:07.27d_rossbergexactly
19:07.37pacman87which i don't think will be a problem, other than looking ugly
19:08.35d_rossbergit could be intended to get holes in the solid
19:09.11pacman87if you have two seperate, independantly closed loops
19:10.14pacman87the other way to handle open loops is to duplicate all the segments
19:10.18pacman87forming a shell
19:10.27pacman87since the hitpoints would be duplicated
19:10.38pacman87(i ran into this problem with an ill-formed sketch earlier)
19:11.56d_rossbergyes, a double line in the sketch means nothing (no hit)
19:12.29pacman87i though it was a hit with a zero-length hit segment
19:12.48pacman87ie, identical in and out points
19:13.47d_rossbergdouble lines are a common trick to conect two regions in one border line
19:14.33d_rossbergthey should be trated as "not there"
19:15.06pacman87hmmm
19:16.19pacman87is trying to think of the best way to detect this
19:16.33d_rossbergwith double lines you may cut holes in plates if you have to deskribe the plate by one closed borderline
19:17.45pacman87i'm not seeing it
19:18.37pacman87say you have three points: (0,0); (0,2); and (1,1)
19:18.51pacman87and the sketch just has line segments
19:18.54pacman87so it's a triangle
19:19.04d_rossberge.g. a wall with a window in it
19:19.51d_rossberghow would you describe this with a single closed border?
19:20.16pacman87oh, so the sketch outline traces along the middle of the wall, around the window, and back to the edge of teh wall on the same path
19:20.25pacman87and the overlapping segments cancel
19:20.35pacman87leaving a window in a wall
19:20.52d_rossbergyep
19:21.22pacman87where does the 'single' part of the 'single closed border' requirement come from?
19:22.26d_rossbergthe structure is much simpler than having a list of closed non overlapping borders
19:24.08d_rossberga surface has a border and a border is a list of points
19:24.28d_rossbergthis is much simpler than "list of list of points"
19:25.23d_rossbergif you need the second you have to compute it from the first one
19:27.21pacman87i though the sketch primitive could handle multiple closed loops
19:28.30pacman87and if those loops overlap, then that'd be the same as a self-intersecting closed loop
19:29.46d_rossbergthe sketch primitive has no problem with it
19:30.30d_rossbergbut you have to decide if two intersection points are identical or not
19:32.22pacman87so i'd have to check for zero length segments, and for zero distance between the end/start of adjacent segments
19:35.13d_rossbergi would say yes
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20:30.17brlcad~brlsvn is <reply>try ~cadsvn instead
20:30.18ibotbrlcad: okay
20:33.07brlcadpacman87: feel free to refactor code needed by multiple primitives into files in src/librt/primitives ;)
20:33.27brlcadnice working pic too :)
20:40.30brlcadpacman87: also adding to the previous discussion, being a solid shotline ray-tracer, no primitives should return zero-thickness ray segments as hits -- they shoule have a non-zero thickness or it's a miss
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20:56.05pacman87so do a NEAR_ZERO( dist1-dist2, SMALL_FASTF)?
21:31.20brlcadthat'd be one way
21:32.10brlcadisolates which of his memory chips is bad after about a dozen reboots and tests
21:32.26pacman87mmmm, memory chips :)
21:38.39brlcadexcessively obscure file corruption errors .. that took a while to pin down
21:40.14pacman87brlcad: what's your opinion on how to handle non-closed sketches?
21:44.21brlcadpacman87: if they're implicitly 'closed' wrt the rotation axis, I think it should behave accordingly -- e.g. points/edges 0,0 -> 1,1 -> 0,1 would be 'implicitly' closed even though there is no 0,1 -> 0,0 closure
21:45.02brlcadwhere accordingly means that it'd revolve and ray-trace successfully (as an upside-down cone in that example)
21:45.36brlcadif someone defined 0,0 -> 0,1 -> 1,1 though .. hm, dunno
21:46.52brlcadyou could close it automatically by implicitly forming an edge to the 0,y value or throw an error (not so useful but not unreasonable)
21:47.46brlcadi suppose you could also auto-close to the original point if they don't form a closed loop (e.g. to 0,0 in that second example instead of to 0,y) .. but that'd be .. wierd
21:48.55pacman87most 'auto-closing' ends up rather complicated; ie for multiple open sections
21:51.00brlcaddetermining what it means might get complicated, but the closure itself could be fairly simple
21:52.25brlcadsomething like "if a segment/curve endpoint has no connected endpoints, connect it to a line segment that goes from the unconnected x,y point to the corresponding 0,y point
21:53.41brlcadyou would probably want to throw an error if you close it for the user since I'd still probably consider that an "invalid" ill-defined revolve sketch, but it'd probably be closer to what was expected
21:54.43brlcadso if someone models a simple open 0,0 -> 1,1 straight segment as the curve, it'd make the cone
21:55.11brlcad1,0 -> 1,1 would make a cylinder, etc
21:55.26pacman87ok, will do
21:56.45brlcadas if they'd modeled those as 0,0 -> 1,1 -> 0,1 -> 0,0 for the cone and 1,0 -> 1,1 -> 0,1 -> 0,0 -> 1,0 respectively for the cylinder
21:57.51brlcadprobably need to test each edge/curve against the y-axis as a bisector, so you can insert the corresponding points/edges
21:58.55pacman87so we're still ignoring everything on the (-) side of y?
22:00.31pacman87one other question: should i modify the actual sketch (add the extra points/segments) or leave it alone?
22:00.48pacman87modifying the sketch would be easier for me
22:00.51brlcadhm? not really ignoring it
22:02.14brlcad0,0 -> -1,0 -> 1,1 -> 0,1 would be perfectly valid I would think (two cones that touch tip to tip)
22:02.35pacman87that's the -x side
22:02.41pacman87i was referring to the -y side
22:02.45brlcadah ah
22:03.23brlcadhow's -y any different?
22:03.35pacman87wait, i just confused myself
22:03.41brlcadtranslate all the values down and it works just fine
22:04.05pacman87invalid  |  valid
22:04.08pacman87axis   ^
22:04.32brlcadin fact, to make your processing simple, you may want to do exactly that -- translate all values into positive xy 'normalized' coordinates
22:05.41brlcadyou'd have to translate the ray by the same amount, but it should remove sign problems when evaluating
22:06.11pacman87let me ask as an open question: what should happen when a circle centered at 0,0 is revolved through 90 degrees?
22:07.29brlcadtwo quarter-sphere wedges
22:08.08pacman87ok, that gets a bit more difficult
22:10.03brlcadhm, I take it back about translating to positive first-quadrant coordinates .. that might cause more problems than it solves
22:10.34pacman87yeah, it's working perfectly when everything has a positive x coord
22:10.57pacman87s/perfectly/perfectly for straight lines ;)
22:11.57brlcadwhat about automatically trimming the curves like I suggested -- bisect all curves against the x and y axis so you can evaluate all curves for each of the four quadrants consistently?
22:12.45brlcadsince if you got it working for +x, should be a few flips of sign to get the other quadrants
22:12.48pacman87the y coordinate doesn't working
22:12.55pacman87doesn't matter*
22:13.25brlcadso only bisect with the x-axis
22:13.37brlcader, y-axis
22:14.12pacman87what should result from a triangle at -1,0  1,0  1,2?
22:14.21brlcadthen all your x coordinate signs are flipped and only solid for angles 90->270
22:15.40pacman87i could pick up the hits with -x coords by using both sides of my projected hyperbola
22:15.44brlcadI'd think a cylinder, no different than 0,0 -> 1,0 -> 1,2 -> 1,0
22:16.28brlcadtesting hits, you'd get solids on both the left and right, but the segments would overlap so you'd combine them (and get the cynlinder since the +x side encompasses)
22:16.54pacman87so i'd have to keep the hit lists seperate
22:17.43brlcadyeah, you wouldn't have your answer until you evaluate both sides
22:18.14pacman87which doesnt' really have any computational advantages over just using two revolves
22:18.18brlcadpretty simple book-keeping though, some of the other primitives have to do that
22:18.35pacman87which primitives?
22:19.10brlcadyeah, don't think there are any computational advantages other than they overlap as *one* primitive so you would only ever get one segment back
22:19.44brlcadwhereas if I actually made two revolve primitives, that would be an overlap -- I'd have to union them at a sub-region level
22:21.17pacman87is that really a problem?
22:22.53brlcadnot really -- they are able to do that regardless
22:23.25brlcadthe question is more what should a single primitive do -- your -1,0  1,0  1,2 should work I think
22:24.03pacman87it would do the same by ignoring the -x hits (only for full revolve, though)
22:24.25brlcadin that case it would
22:24.39pacman87if it was flipped, it'd be different
22:24.44brlcadfor other cases, it wouldn't (like your sphere rotated by 90)
22:25.13brlcads/sphere/circle/
22:25.46brlcador even -1,-1 -> 1,1   (two cones)
22:27.17pacman87yeah, partial revolves are a major difference
22:30.02brlcadif you a) break up prep()/shot() into a left/right case for +-x and b) close all open edges to the y-axis .. should give you a consistent means to test intersection
22:31.24brlcadkicks CIA-22
22:31.25CIA-22ow
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00:13.48*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.27.163)
00:13.59andrecastelohey guys
00:15.21brlcadhowdy andrecastelo
00:16.39brlcadandrecastelo: how's your tracer coming along?
00:21.24andrecasteloNot upt to my expectations. I've written about it at the blog. Some functions are pretty similar to RT, probably need to be tweaked to support MLT better; rayhit is also akin to color_view(). Also, I'm not able to dedicate as I wanted to, due to school and laboratory responsibilities.
00:21.53brlcadyeah, I read your update, several comments and responses if you're interested
00:22.28andrecastelothose are really welcome
00:23.07brlcadhope you don't fall too far behind, there's a fair bit to go and afaikt you don't have it generating (any) images yet.. :)
00:24.03brlcadwell the answer to a lot of your questions was "don't worry about that yet" .. your first step really needs to be a simple flat-shaded bitmap image
00:24.19brlcadif you hit it, color the pixel on or color it the color of what you hit, etc
00:24.37brlcadbefore you get to the more complex summations needed for mlt
00:24.50brlcadyou need that before you can sample hemispheres regardless
00:25.21brlcadand even getting that far will be a heck of a lot of motivation since you get to finally see something
00:28.09andrecastelothanks, I will do my best to keep up
00:28.15andrecastelodid you comment on the blog itself?
00:28.26brlcadafter you get that far, then we can start thinking about how to deal with reflections/refractions, forward path discovery, reverse path discovery, metropolis sampling, path jitter, depth of field, etc
00:29.05andrecasteloso, the idea is to build a simple tracer first?
00:29.23brlcadmore specific to the code, even for bitmapping, you'll either color in ray-hit, or store the hit during rayhit and write to the image probably during viewend
00:29.37brlcadyes, a *very* simple tracer, bitmap on/off even
00:30.11brlcadno secondary rays
00:30.19andrecastelohmm
00:30.27andrecasteloi really didn't think about that
00:30.45brlcadif you don't have that much working, the rest is moot :)
00:31.20brlcadit's certainly not wasted code, you need it regardless ..
00:42.09andrecastelothanks for the help, brlcad :D really appreciate it
01:08.35yukonbobhello, cadheads
01:13.19brlcadhowdy
01:47.50brlcadfyi, there's a support request in to sf.net to fix CIA
01:47.52brlcadthe problem seems to be on their end
01:47.56brlcadit was instantly marked high-priority so hopefully it should get resolved soon
02:22.47yukonbobupdates his copy of the svn repo...
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02:57.41MiescoHi, how do I center an object
02:57.47MiescoI lost it
03:01.29MiescoI found it, I just did: center 0 0 0
03:10.52MiescoHey how come in the MGED text is so big, like File, Edit, its way bigger then any other apps
03:14.42andrecastelobrlcad: so, i think my view_pixel is broken :S
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03:55.53brlcadMiesco: the 'center' command centers the view
03:56.08brlcaddoesn't change the object you're looking at, just the view
03:56.57brlcaddefault text is so big because that was a common size requested by users -- it's configurable, though -- you can make it whatever size suits you
04:15.57brlcadandrecastelo: might help to step back and relook at something more simple like rtarea -- you should be able to follow what is going on there but instead of tabulating the hits and printing a summary, you fill in a pixel array and write the buffer out to a file
04:17.06brlcadyou should have the same basic callbacks going on in your code, except for a binary array it's even more simple than rtarea -- you only need first hit and only hit/miss
04:59.16yukonboblots of autocad chatter on #tcl, so  I pointed the nerds to http://www.brlcad.org...
05:03.04brlcad:)
05:03.25brlcadtell them the modeler is a huge tcl/tk code base?
05:03.52brlcadsome portions predate 8.0 days.. might scare some ;)
05:10.12yukonbobof course mentioned the Tcl...
05:10.13yukonbob;)
05:10.33yukonbobTcl is was brought _me_ to BRL-CAD ;)
05:10.54brlcad:)
05:11.17yukonbobnow I stay because BRL-CAD is 1) awesome 2) Has a great community (and awesome leader (Sean)) 3) Still has Tcl ;)
05:12.03yukonbobheh "stay" -- I haven't touched anything for months :P
05:14.05brlcad1) yes it is! 2) heh (pffft) 3) and probably always will in some central capacity even if the interface itself becomes less intertwined
05:15.02brlcadpfft to myself, not the community .. the community is great ;)
05:16.08yukonbob:) -- well, like the attention or not, I think you do a wicked job here... but enough of that. How're things going?
05:17.45brlcadgoing a'ight
05:18.16brlcadworking on some finishing touches for a geometry service visualization plan at the moment
05:19.07brlcadcentral to the new modeler architecture among other things
05:19.20yukonbobgsv -- a central geom server?
05:19.34yukonbobis only guessing, by the name...
05:19.56brlcadsort of, only part of it (a small part of what you could conceivably do with it)
05:20.10yukonbobinterrogation ,etc. ,etc?
05:22.13brlcadsort of turning libbu, libbn, libwdb, librt, and mged into a unified API, allowing versioned object management on top of that as part of a new geometry kernel, and then providing means for storing/retrieving geometry, visual representations, and change notifications
05:23.32yukonbobever considered sqlite for version management?
05:23.40brlcadpart of a grand master plan to modernize our services for application codes to use
05:23.44yukonbobhas had this on his head for a while...
05:23.53brlcadyep, it's on the docket for some things already
05:24.06yukonbobnods...
05:24.17brlcadthough for actual geometry management, the plan is presently a different (hybrid) approach
05:24.54brlcadusing sql for metadata directory services, using more traditional revision control for geometry itself
05:25.30brlcadI'll see if I can post up this plan when I'm done, might help see things better (there are pretty pictures)
05:25.37yukonbobhrmm...
05:26.02yukonbobwhen you say more traditional revision control, are you thinking a lightweight svn?
05:26.09yukonbob(for example)
05:26.39brlcadwell I'm referring at a programmatic level, but yeah sorta
05:27.07brlcadat a c/c++ coding level, managing revision controlled geometry
05:27.09yukonbobbrlcad: are you familiar w/ another drh project, fossil (http://www.fossil-scm.org)?
05:27.25brlcadyep, you mentioned them a week or two ago :)
05:27.47yukonbobOops -- I one of _those_ people :P
05:27.48yukonbob<PROTECTED>
05:28.05yukonbobUNfortunately, it's currently licensed gpl...
05:28.25yukonbobbut his (drh) coding style is very cool... built for integration...
05:29.00brlcadgpl is a non-starter, but there are other requirements too
05:29.35yukonboblgpl is the "worst" for consideration, no?
05:29.51yukonbobie: BSD is better... or other such permissive license?
05:30.08brlcade.g. something like mercurial would be interesting, but there's no low-level bindings; git has low-level api facilities but is a mess and isn't really cross-platform at all, etc
05:30.22yukonbobugh -- git
05:30.23brlcadlgpl or bsd/mit are fine
05:30.38yukonbob8000 binaries to do your job
05:31.03brlcadagain, that's the high-level .. which we're not involved with :)
05:31.56yukonbobya, true... but still. /me quit working with git when he discovered mercurial, then quit w/ mercurial when discovered fossil...
05:32.19brlcadlooking at the reliability/portability/momentum landscape, the svn C libraries are actually pretty darn solid (just presently sans distributed capabilities, which we don't exactly want/need at this point)
05:33.15brlcadand since we're at a compile-time layer, we could add those capabilities ourselves if that requirement happens (though not likely)
05:34.13brlcadthat's all just gravy-talk, the main effort is much more direct -- unify our services (which requires a *massive* rewrite at three separate levels)
05:34.54brlcadhence all the work lately on libged, upcoming C++ OO layer, and a network service layer
05:35.12brlcadthat's more than enough to keep us busy for a year or three
05:36.01yukonbobkewl, kewl, kewl
05:40.53yukonbobhits hay -- tomorrow's another day (or so I'm told) -- chat later, brlcad
05:41.13brlcadcya!
05:41.24brlcadsuspects this might be an all-nighter
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08:37.09brlcadsuspected correctly
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10:02.08mafmhi
10:47.30brlcadhowdy!
10:47.52brlcadgets dressed
10:49.19mafmwon't look at brlcad
12:02.23brlcadheh
12:03.10alex_jonimafm: smart move
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12:26.43mafmI'm all for not looking at naked guys
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13:33.13brlcadmafm: more eye candy if you're not seen this already: http://slinky.imukuppi.org/zenburnpage/ (or the former http://slinky.imukuppi.org/zenburn/ )
13:34.10brlcadwould be very cool to be able to use either vim files or one of the other "ports and derivatives" directly as a theming format for the gui's text
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13:53.19HTT-Birdhey all, just installed BRL-CAD from the Windows binary yesterday to leverage its file-format conversion capabilities, but I only got the IGES and STL importers/exporters + the fast4 importer
13:53.32HTT-Birdwhat do I have to do to get the other importers and exporters?
13:53.46brlcadHTT-Bird: the Windows port isn't as comprehensive as (all) other platforms
13:54.04HTT-Bird:( will I have to build the rest of the exporters from source?
13:54.41brlcadyou have to either compile them directly yourself (setting up a studio project for some of them), try compiling under cygwin, use a non-Windows OS, or .. "wait"
13:55.01HTT-Birdokiedokie, thank goodness I know how to compile stuff :D
13:55.09brlcadwhich compile were you looking to use?
13:55.15brlcads/compile/converter/
13:55.39HTT-Birdthe VRML exporter
13:58.01HTT-Birdoh lol, turns out that the version linked to off the mainpage is OLD!
13:58.01HTT-Bird(7.8.0 as opposed to 7.12.x)
14:01.18HTT-Birdalso, can the IGES importer read STEP too?  the documentation alludes to STEP being an IGES refinement...
14:07.49HTT-Birdalright, upgrading to 7.12.2 got me my importers and exporters
14:08.50brlcadah, heh
14:09.00brlcadno IGES cannot read STEP
14:09.05brlcadentirely different standards
14:09.55HTT-Birdah...
14:10.22HTT-Birdcrosses his fingers and hopes that the IGES importer works then
14:11.22HTT-Birdgah, I guess not
14:12.14brlcadSTEP replaces IGES from an industry standardization perspective, but isn't a refinement
14:12.25HTT-Birdok...ty for clearing that up
14:12.39brlcadthe iges importer is rather .. "complex" .. there are various import modes possible
14:12.53brlcadyou have to pick the right modes and even then it will only pay attention to solid geometry
14:13.14HTT-Birdwell, I'm trying to import an assembly of 3 solid parts so I can send it right back out the door as VRML
14:13.36brlcadand you only have it in iges format?
14:14.21brlcadconverting from iges to brl-cad's nmg or bot formats is your best bet for getting to vrml
14:14.57HTT-BirdI have the original source of the model (as AIP2k8)
14:14.57brlcadjust if you have spline nurbs surface solids in your iges file, that's the one case that might give you problems
14:14.57HTT-Birdah...
14:14.57HTT-Birdtries a re-export
14:15.04brlcad"might", depends on a lot of factors
14:15.13brlcadiges export has tons of options usually
14:15.33brlcadthere are like three that should work perfectly, and about one or two dozen that will fail
14:16.24HTT-Birdtried exporting Analytic instead of NURBS surfaces, and no dice :(
14:17.53HTT-Birdok, Surface export seems to work using the importer's -n flag
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14:22.08HTT-Birdwell...almost there :( I can't seem to get Mged to draw the object in the file
14:28.55mafmbrlcad: what do you mean, having a code translating theme.vim to RBGui.theme?
14:30.21mafmalso, the text has format highlighting, which the RBGui's text widgets have no support for
14:31.51brlcadit's the format highlighting that make it useful ;)
14:32.17brlcadHTT-Bird: what does "tops" say in mged? 'e' that name
14:32.28HTT-Birdbrlcad: already tried that :(
14:32.34brlcadwhat'd it say?
14:32.43HTT-Bird'all'
14:32.58HTT-Birdbut nothing happens in the console and no objects show up when I do 'e all'
14:33.09brlcad"l all"
14:33.41HTT-Birdyeah, there's an object there, alright
14:35.10brlcadperhaps the graphics display simply isn't updating? try moving the graphics window after e all
14:35.58mafmdo you want me to implement syntax highlighting for text widgets?
14:36.11HTT-Birdbrlcad: no, still just a black graphics window with the axes in it
14:38.15brlcadmafm: nah, layout and interaction is more important than styling for now
14:38.37brlcadHTT-Bird: if you run "rt", do you just get a black window?
14:39.07HTT-Birdrt doesn't even get that far!
14:39.17HTT-Birdrt_dirbuild(all) failure!
14:39.29HTT-Birdok, that was my bad
14:39.45mafmI don't know if more windows than the console would be heavily based in text
14:40.00HTT-Birdwell, rt gives me an object, just the wrong object
14:40.14brlcadHTT-Bird: what color is it? black?
14:40.36HTT-Birdbrlcad: the object's there and nice and gray, it just is badly distorted from the original
14:43.01pooliowaves
14:45.04HTT-Birdlol, I just triggered a rather spectacular crash in iges-g
14:47.31clock_`iseg-f
14:48.33brlcadHTT-Bird: badly distorted as in polygonal soup, too low tessellation?
14:48.40brlcadthat should be export settings controllable
14:48.40HTT-Birdbrlcad: the tesselation is fine
14:48.52brlcadpic?
14:49.06HTT-Birdit's just that the object itself is distorted (a hemispherical shell became a sphere, for instance)
14:50.51HTT-Birdwell, I guess I'll go to a totally different solution
14:51.33HTT-Birdoh wait...some signs of life from the graphics window!
14:52.29HTT-Birdyeah, it's IGES object soup that's my problem
14:52.41HTT-Birdso...now I know why IGES is bad.
14:53.05HTT-Birdthx for the help brlcad
14:53.54brlcadnp
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15:33.56CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31752 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: cia test
15:36.05mafmgo CIA go!
15:36.13pacman87woohoo!
15:36.42mafmLet CIA spy shamelessly on us and report to the rest
15:37.05mafmOne Oprah Show In Every Channel :P
15:38.29brlcadlaments that we couldn't actually find the problem
15:39.13brlcadburley blames cia isp, but all indications still seem to point to an sf problem
15:39.31brlcadit's working because we switched it over from using xmlrpc to using e-mails
15:41.36mafmgood old technology :)
15:56.39CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31753 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/Makefile: Attempt to make the building of src/other to stop on the first failure, as suggested by Dawn Thomas
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16:50.20mafmre
16:50.53mafmtoo bad... I wasn't here to post the "frist commtit" comment :(
17:16.38CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31754 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (4 files): Adding command to set different polygon modes for the renderer (wireframe, solid, points), and another one to create and show simple geometries (only the command in place, still missing the geometry itself)
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20:04.09brlcadmafm: hehe
20:04.12brlcadcommit early, commit often
20:04.34brlcadI could certainly break cia again .. :)
20:13.00mafmI can't commit more today
20:13.08mafmgeometries refuse to work
20:13.20pacman87they
20:13.26pacman87they're going on strike?
20:14.44mafmthey're complaining because of the gas price or something
20:14.55mafmneed a lot of power to run...
20:15.22mafmwell, I have to get going, I'm already late :)
20:15.33mafmhopefully I'll got it working by tomorrow!
20:15.34pacman87bye, and good luck
20:15.36mafmsee you
20:15.43mafmsame for you :)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080709

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080709

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01:31.49yukonbobhello, cadheads
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03:51.55pooliobrlcad: for planar faces of an NMG, is there a way to somehow get an area that encloses the face? I've got a bounding box and a surface normal...can I intersect those to find what I want? (I'm trying to create a rectangular surface that I know is large enough to fit the face, then cut it out using the trimming loops)
04:30.36brlcadpoolio: hm
04:30.47brlcadI don't think you have enough information with that approach
04:31.28brlcadnot sure why you'd want to make them all rectangular with trimming loops to make the actual surface though
04:32.14brlcadwhy not make it match it identically and make the trims simply match the edges (i.e. trim nothing like in twisted cube example)
04:36.43poolioWell, the main issue is I'm not sure how to create a surface that way :)
04:38.11poolioDo you just define more control values and it works? I think the issue might be I'm still shaky on the U-V mapping
04:39.13brlcadless src/other/openNURBS/example_brep/example_brep.cpp
04:39.22poolioHeh, I've read through that many times :)
04:40.06brlcadmm, there's a simpler one then too
04:47.33brlcadthere it is, example_write/example_write.cpp
04:47.56brlcadthat one actually helped me initially understand how uv trimmings worked
04:48.33brlcadthat example writes out about a dozen different objects
04:48.43brlcadthere are two or three that should be interesting to you
04:48.57brlcadwrite_trimmed_surface_example() in particular
04:49.28brlcadthey create a simple single triangle
04:50.05brlcadwith real xyz values so you can see how that would correspond to a given nmg face
04:51.07poolioah cool, thanks. I'm off to bed but I'll read through it first thing tomorrow
04:51.14pooliowas hoping to finish NMG schtuff by the end of thursday
04:51.46brlcadawesome
04:55.39brlcadwhat I don't know is whether an ON_Mesh would be sufficient since none of the nmgs we have actually need trimmings, write_mesh_example() is much simpler
04:56.46brlcadwhether the ON_Mesh it creates will validate as IsSolid() is the question .. I suspect it won't
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10:14.34brlcadmafm: saw your note, but I'll reply via e-mail ;)
10:14.35mafmhi
10:14.49brlcadg'morning
10:14.59mafmare you going to make comments? grrr :P
10:15.11mafmthat was a rhetoric artifact...
10:19.59brlcadfor what it's worth, you have nothing to worry about for the midterm eval
10:20.59mafmheh, that's good :)
10:21.45mafmI only intended to make an auto-evaluation in advance, specially since I barely interacted with Robert
10:21.52brlcadall four of you have been making steady progress for the most part, good stuff
10:21.59brlcadheh, he goes by "Bob"
10:22.16mafmSilent Bob? :P
10:22.27brlcadthink's he'll call him Robert all day today just for fun
10:22.33brlcadyep, bob is pretty silent
10:22.45brlcadhe's been working pretty hard on libged
10:22.58brlcadthat requires refactoring about 100k lines of code
10:23.07brlcadlots of lots of issues
10:23.08mafmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_and_Silent_Bob
10:23.11mafmno offence :D
10:23.44brlcadnone taken
10:24.03mafmI mean for him, if he happens to read the logs or something
10:24.36brlcadi've heard of those movies, not one of my favorite directors
10:24.39mafmit's just that the fact of you calling him Bob and the silent thingy, sparked in my mind :D
10:24.58mafmI don't like them either, although most of my friends do
10:25.46brlcadhighly doubts bob will know the reference (or read the log, prove me wrong bob ;)
10:25.59mafmso do you work with Bob everyday? are you in ARL buildings?
10:26.14brlcadhe's a pretty traditional guy, irc's a bit much for him
10:26.27mafmwell, IRC is pretty traditional
10:26.57mafmmyspace kiddies don't even know what it means :D
10:26.59brlcadheh, from one perspective I suppose
10:27.56mafmand many ppl (being IM users of gmail, msn etc) gets confused when I tell that I know A or B from IRC
10:28.02brlcadtraditional "dev" in the sense he doesn't coordinate/communicate over irc for his dev needs -- he's a face-to-face guy, "maybe" e-mail if you can find an account he's using
10:28.27mafmteh ninja programmer!
10:28.45brlcadhehe
10:29.33mafmif he managed to refactor 100K LoCs mostly in silence, he surely must be...
10:37.29brlcadneat, looks like he just recently passed up john
10:37.38brlcad#3 all-time contributor now
10:38.13mafmwhere's that?
10:38.33brlcadaccording to ohloh, he's changed 882k lines of code in brl-cad
10:38.38brlcadohloh stats site
10:38.52brlcadhttp://www.ohloh.net/projects/3996/contributors?page=1
10:39.53mafmoh, them
10:40.16mafmthem punks don't have mi contributions
10:40.42brlcadyou're on page 3
10:41.07brlcadmoving up through the ranks..
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10:41.46mafmhum, so it works now? it didn't before
10:41.50mafmhi d_rossberg
10:41.51brlcadinteresting that andre commits more frequently than you apparently, even though he's more behind on his progress
10:42.00mafmthey had problems with caret in rt^3
10:42.33mafmI think that I made much more than 25 commits, I have more than 10 some day...
10:42.39d_rossberghi mafm, brlcad
10:42.39brlcadmafm: er, it's been indexing rt^3 for about a year
10:42.48brlcadhowdy d_rossberg
10:42.56mafmwell, they confirmed that as a bug
10:43.15mafmand there was only the main brlcad/ in enlistments
10:43.59brlcadhuh, wonder if someone removed it
10:44.10brlcadbecause I'd added it a long while ago
10:44.45mafmprobably you did, but it was removed because of problems indexing
10:44.47brlcadwhere was the chatter about the caret?
10:47.04mafmhttp://www.ohloh.net/forums/10/topics/1706
10:48.41brlcadthx
10:49.42mafm$ svn log | egrep "^r.* \| mafm \|" | wc -l
10:49.42mafm74
10:50.11mafm$ svn log | egrep "^r.* \| mafm \|" | wc -l
10:50.11mafm75
10:50.26mafm(before svn update, that it affects for the logs)
10:51.13brlcadyeah
10:51.38mafmso it seems rt/3, not rt^3 :PPPP
10:51.53brlcadfwiw, ohloh also collapses commits if the log messages are identical within a given time window
10:52.07brlcadbut yeah, I'd bet it's missing some commits
10:52.21brlcadwith so few, should be able to figure out which and could let robin know
10:52.32brlcadhe's pretty good at chasing down those problems
10:53.02brlcadwe had a handful of issues to sort out when ohloh first went on-line a couple years ago
10:53.43brlcadthey'd never indexed a cvs project with a history as extensive as ours, they had a few bugs in their cvs backend
10:53.46mafmhttp://www.ohloh.net/projects/3996/commits?commit=Update&page=3&query=mafm
10:53.55mafmit seems that it's only my commits since 30th june
10:54.32brlcadwell, you haven't committed 50 times since 30th, so it's still missing something :)
10:55.01mafmhmm?
10:55.18mafmI mean that it's only counting the ones after 30th, which must be the 25
10:55.27mafmbeing another ~50 before that
10:55.36brlcadah
10:56.00brlcadcould try readding the enlistment
10:56.45brlcador even just telling robin that much
10:57.31CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31755 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/BrlcadCore.def: some additional exported functions in BrlcadCore
10:58.00brlcadwonders how long before d_rossberg just ends up exporting everything :)
10:58.47mafmhttp://www.ohloh.net/topics/1706?page=1#post_6265
10:59.45d_rossberg:) my initial point was to not export everything
10:59.57mafmwantz to pwn commits
11:00.17brlcadhears "Robert"
11:02.18mafmit would be important for me, but the interviewers don't even know what GSoC is, not what Grid is (they always think of map grids, or UI layouts...)
11:02.36mafmso half the interview goes to explain what I'm really doing
11:02.57mafmso they would clearly won't look at my ohloh stats... :)
11:04.42CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31756 10/brlcad/trunk/ (misc/win32-msvc/CMakeLists.txt src/conv/patch/CMakeLists.txt): added the patch converters to the CMake build
11:12.07mafmlunch time!
12:06.52CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31757 10/brlcad/trunk/m4/ (Makefile.am ax_boost_base.m4): Adding boost checking macro, configure.ac unchanged (WIP)
12:07.23brlcadneat
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13:19.57mafmhi again
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14:00.09brlcadgood lunch?
14:01.01mafmpretty good
14:01.53mafmbut now I have these network outages... they're switching (pun intended?) the router
14:08.05CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31758 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 3 dirs): Added shift-grip functionality to libtclcad's ged object.
14:32.06mafmbrlcad: could you briefly describe how to imagine a session where you would model a simples totem of cubes/balls/whatever, composed by ~3 pieces?
14:34.51clock_in a rpp 0 1 0 1 0 1 ...
14:34.52clock_then rt
14:36.31clock_would have to try it actually out and record everything he types
14:37.07clock_tries to avoid the Graphical Unusable Interface
14:38.11brlcadmafm: I'd start by thinking of it from a read-only perspective, locking down the synchronization of the gui with the command-line (so they are in-fact one in the same), and getting all of the visualization manipulations working
14:38.20brlcad*then* thinking about creating stuff ;)
14:39.05brlcadthat is all going to tie into the geometry service framework that is being developed
14:39.28brlcadthat will actually manage the actual commands possible (like 'in' and others you find in mged)
14:40.05clock_can't get it to stay on the display more than split second
14:40.23clock_mafm: do you also want to see what you've created? Then I am of no help, I can't do that even myself :)
14:42.46mafmclock_: it's for my new project, not mged
14:42.48brlcadotherwise, how I'd forsee that happening is similar to the IOE example where you'd have a content panel on the left or right that would have your primitives, you'd drag them into the view to create them in a stack or use an on-demand command to create them with the keyboard
14:44.31mafmwith locking down sync you mean to only update the GUI (and OGRE?) on keystrokes, instead of the usual renderloop of 3D apps?  That would make sense for an app like this without animations, I guess
14:45.19brlcadmafm: if you're to the point where you want to start seeing geometry, you should probably hook in libged -- it's already good to go for wireframe and polygonal display
14:46.17mafmthe wireframe stuff is already sorted out -- it's just to switch a flag in the renderwindow or camera, already created a command for that
14:46.46mafmand I'm starting to create a geometry, tried with a tetraedron, but no luck showing it
14:48.29mafmso basically, the app would inquiry libged about available primitives, commands
14:48.54mafmthen create a panel with the primitives and zone as "sheet"
14:49.18mafmand then allow to apply commands on the objects in the sheet, or via keyboard
15:04.26brlcadmafm: it's not fully sorted out ;) .. I saw the commits
15:08.23brlcadthere's various complications given we're dealing with unevaluated CSG
15:08.55brlcadtoggling from wire to poly to shaded only works if you already have an evaluated boundary representation (e.g. polygonal)
15:09.07brlcadwhich we don't always have
15:09.35brlcadso *all* you might have would be a wireframe representation represented as a raw display list of points and segments
15:10.01brlcadneeds to be able to manage that in addition to polygonal forms that can be more easily toggled
15:11.57brlcadbut yeah, you have it spot on for the rest!
15:12.23brlcadquery what's available and display/respond accordingly
15:12.57mafmOh, I see
15:13.16mafmI'm not sure if opengl can work with non-triangles really
15:13.21mafmor rather, OGRE
15:16.08brlcadit can, it all boils down to display lists in the scene
15:16.34brlcadand even if it couldn't, you could fake it if you absolutely had to
15:20.24mafmyep, I suppose
15:20.31CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31759 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (Makefile.am mrot.c rot.c slew.c vrot.c zoom.c): Added more view related commands.
15:20.34mafmbut a.t.m I can't even show the tetraedron :D
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15:32.57pacman87my computer doesnt like me anymore
15:35.43CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31760 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/pc.h src/libpc/pc_main.c src/libpc/pc_test.c): removal of outdated functions:pc_write_parameters, pc_generate_parameters etc.
15:36.06brlcadquick scan, looks like http://www.ogre3d.org/docs/api/html/classOgre_1_1SceneManager.html#Ogre_1_1SceneManagera114 has what you'd need probably
15:37.12brlcadcalling Ogre::SceneManager::manualRender() or Ogre::SceneManager::renderObjects() or Ogre::SceneManager::renderSingleObject()
15:37.30brlcadand passing the right container that would just represent a wireframe
15:37.46brlcadotherwise you could turn the wires into pipes and spheres
15:41.19CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31761 10/brlcad/trunk/ (33 files in 33 dirs): pc_param_set deprecated, replacing with pc_pc_set (WIP)
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15:48.40CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31762 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c: Increase av size to account for the optionial argument.
15:50.19CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31763 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcSolver.h solver_test.cpp): #include cleanup . boost specific includes already in pcNetwork.h not repeated
15:51.30CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31764 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: Added declaration for ged_vrot.
16:01.53CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31765 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/tra.c: Added more view related commands.
16:13.54CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31766 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: Added declarations for ged_mrot and ged_rot.
16:23.24mafmmm, I guess that the conversion is more feasible
16:24.42CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31767 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/libged/libged.vcproj: Added files to windows build.
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16:38.59CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31768 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/boost/ (53 files in 22 dirs): (log message trimmed)
16:39.02CIA-60BRL-CAD: boost::spirit import and other boost updates. Spirit is an object-oriented
16:39.04CIA-60BRL-CAD: recursive-descent parser generator framework implemented using template
16:39.06CIA-60BRL-CAD: meta-programming techniques. Expression templates allow us to approximate the
16:39.10CIA-60BRL-CAD: syntax of Extended Backus-Normal Form (EBNF) completely in C++. Spirit would be
16:39.12CIA-60BRL-CAD: particularly helpful in writing the parser for generating constraints from
16:39.17CIA-60BRL-CAD: expressions for libpc with its object oriented methodology and particularly
17:11.19brlcadyay for finding spirit++
17:11.31brlcadwas going to suggest that to him
17:11.43brlcadthat or good ol' lex/yacc
17:14.25prasad_good ol' lex yacc
17:14.41prasad_ply has the best implementation of it
17:14.56prasad_or should i say most intuitive
17:15.08prasad_representation
17:21.39mafmw00t
17:21.55mafmI can se my tetraedron \o/
17:22.11pacman87congrats
17:23.06mafmfirst step for creating pr0n programatically :P
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17:51.28mafmbrr
17:51.30mafmdamn router
18:02.58mafmwell, nuff for today, no commits
18:04.58mafmsee you!
18:05.04pacman87farewell
18:05.21mafmsame
18:05.26mafmkeep up the good work :)
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18:17.58pooliobrlcad: for the trimmed circle they aren't specifying the iso (the direction that it trims). When I tried to add in another point and make it trim for a square it's telling me I need to define it...is there a reason for that? (why you don't need to specy for a triangle but do for shapes with more points)
18:18.29andrecastelohey guys
18:23.32andrecastelobrlcad: i've reworked some stuff, commented a lot of code, set the same color for both hits and misses.. and now it draws two vertical lines
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19:00.37andrecasteloare you there ``Erik ?
19:13.42andrecastelopokes CIA-60
19:13.52CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31769 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c: Commented some parts of code and simplified view_pixel. It shows the silhouette of the image now.
19:14.03andrecastelothanks CIA-60
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19:48.43pacman87wishes there was an option for 'focus follows eyes' instead of 'focus follows mouse'
19:50.39pooliopacman87: that's what tiled WMs are for :)
19:52.31pacman87i have two code windows side by side, both with tabs.  one is for reference, the other one i code in, and too many times i start typing in my 'reference' side instead of the 'code' side
19:53.39alex_jonipacman87: I think there was some experimental "follows eyes" thingie
19:56.08pacman87alex_joni: i'd still have problems because all my code is in the same window (kdevelop)
20:09.05brlcadpoolio: hm, that's interesting about the trimming loop .. dunno other than there may be special code in there for handling triangles where it simply defaults to clockwise or CC orientation
20:09.27brlcadyet in the more generalized case, there is no such default for that class
20:09.42brlcadjust a guess, would have to dig through the code
20:14.45andrecastelobrlcad: hey, brlcad, it works now!
20:14.56andrecastelo:D
20:15.39pooliobrlcad: It looks like special triangle code...it also fails when the edge is along an edge of the surface...
20:16.06poolioI found some code in Dump() that looks like it calculates the proper trimming direction somehow so I'm using that
20:17.51poolioThis is what I've been stuck on (both in the nmg_brep() code and modifying the write_trimmed to write a rectangle): Distance from end of ON_Brep.m_T[2] to 3d edge is 1.  (edge tol = 0, trim tol ~ 0).
21:03.20pooliowow. I just spent around 2 hours trying to get the rectangle trim to work and the issue was that I had a 2 instead of a 3. rawr.
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21:34.53CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31770 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 2 dirs): doxygen edit: division of libpc into modules
21:37.51CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31771 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (Makefile.am pcParser.h solver_test.cpp): Skeleton Structure for libpc Parser: pcexpression_grammar, Parser class and functor interface defined
21:46.28CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31772 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/wdb_obj.c: Fixed bug in get_new_name() that caused an infinite loop when using the dbconcat command with NO_AFFIX.
21:55.39CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31773 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c:
21:55.41CIA-60BRL-CAD: View_pixel() now receives the color from ap->color; Commented the creation and
21:55.43CIA-60BRL-CAD: insertion of point_lists and path_lists. It is always creating the path list,
21:55.45CIA-60BRL-CAD: but it isn't accessible in view_end(), thus creating memory leaks.
22:17.01brlcadandrecastelo: cool!
22:17.06brlcad... what works? :)
22:17.31andrecastelobrlcad: not much, but it shows the silhouette
22:17.33andrecastelohttp://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1521/silhouettezu3.jpg
22:17.49brlcadwoo hoo!
22:18.15andrecasteloi was having problems freeing the loads of structures that i added
22:18.22andrecasteloi mean, i still am
22:18.55andrecasteloi've added the structs allocation and insertion in the rayhit function
22:19.42pacman87brlcad: allowing the sketch to be on both sides of the revolve axis complicates things immensely
22:19.53brlcadpoolio: if distance from trim coordinate to an end coordinate can mean that you have a uv-3d coordinate  mismatch
22:20.23andrecasteloit goes like this - a point_t is in struct point_list, that is inside a struct path_list, which is inside the struct mlt_app
22:20.51brlcadandrecastelo: sounds reasonable
22:21.43andrecasteloyep, but i allocate memory for the path list inside rayhit, if it doesn't exist already.. but despite the checks, it always allocates memory for it
22:21.50andrecastelothere was this huge memory leak
22:26.25brlcadsounds like you need to initialize it to zero/null
22:27.16brlcadandrecastelo: the next step is to probably get flat shading working
22:30.09brlcadfor that, you look at each hit, get the surface normal and compare deviation from your light source(s)
22:30.19brlcaduse that to color the intensity
22:31.31brlcadpretty trivial step, but that'll give you some shape definition
22:33.19brlcadthen maybe add in some basic logic for optional distance falloff just to give you some testable definition
22:34.07brlcadthen add shadows so you have to account for secondary rays
22:34.25brlcadat that point you should be just about ready to jump to forward path tracing
22:43.48andrecastelohm, ok, ok
22:44.06andrecastelois the shadework system needed?
22:44.32andrecastelo(i mean, struct shadework and viewshade() function)
22:48.33starseekerGrr... where are the irc logs again?
22:48.45pacman87starseeker: in the topic
22:48.56pacman87http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/
22:49.09starseekerAh, right - thanks
22:49.38starseekerbrlcad:  Is there any way we can provide a searchable interface to the IRC logs?
22:53.04brlcadandrecastelo: for you to figure out ;)
22:53.22andrecastelohm ok ;}
22:53.37pacman87starseeker: i wrote a script to download the logs, so i can search locally
22:53.44brlcadstarseeker: yeah, i've got a placeholder for the logs in my "site map" (on paper)
22:53.54brlcadwould love to pretty-print/colorize them
22:54.04brlcadriker's logs are crap for many reasons
22:54.35starseekerActually, the formatting could be worse - but gzipping them by default and no searchable interface...
22:54.38starseekerarrgh
22:55.14starseekerThe best irc log system I've ever seen is ircbrowse.com for #lisp, but it's SLLLOOOOWWWW these days (to the point of un-usability) and it's search has been busted for years now :-(
22:55.15brlcadI could allow that irc logging group that made /. headlines last year in here, they've been asking if we want to be indexed
22:55.28brlcadthey provide automatic logging, very nice interface .. mildly intrusive
22:55.38starseekerwhat group is that?
22:55.52brlcadmm.. i'll have to hunt
22:56.25brlcadthey made headlines because they were quitely logging thousands of channels for months before going live without anyone's permission
22:56.33starseekerouch
22:56.52brlcadthey responded to the outcry and removed everyone and made it opt-in instead of opt-out after than happened though
22:57.27archivistirseekbot
22:58.32brlcadyeah, that's them
22:58.48archivistwe have one in #mysql atm
22:59.11archivistthey dont seem to stay up properly
23:00.22starseekertries to figure out the irseek search
23:00.35brlcadexample: http://www.irseek.com/result.php?keywords=%22BRL-CAD%22
23:01.01starseekerwhat if I only want to search within one channel
23:02.42brlcaddon't think it has that option directly, maybe add #channel but I suspect that just adds 'channel' as a keyword
23:02.54starseekeryep
23:02.56starseekermeh
23:03.16brlcadah, I see what you're wanting to do
23:03.42starseekerthe ircbrowse search used to allow me to search #lisp for keywords, and specify how many minutes of conversation around the keyword hit to display
23:04.01starseekerhas yet to find any system to match it
23:04.33brlcadnods
23:04.54starseekermust be one SOMEWHERE though - if I can find it, would it be an option for us?
23:05.24brlcadmm.. i bet there's a drupal module somewhere..
23:05.28archivisteasy enough to add to a database type logger
23:05.50archivistI should add one to the #mysql bot
23:08.29brlcadhm, looks like there's a bot and cgi:irc as a drupal module, but no irc log pretty-printer
23:08.43brlcadcould mod the bot I suppose
23:12.04starseekerThis is interesting, although I don't know how mature it is:  www.irc-collective.org
23:14.14brlcadwoo.. the bot does log
23:14.15brlcadhttp://drupal.org/project/bot
23:15.44brlcadhorrible theme, but an example: http://www.disobey.com/bot/log/drupal-themes
23:16.08starseekerAre the logs searchable?
23:17.29brlcadto store content as a drupal module, it 'should' be searchable like all of the site content
23:17.43brlcadwould have to install it and test
23:20.45starseekerreally a shame that the irc collective project is inactive
23:21.43starseekercan't help thinking how awesome it would be to have a link to display all the images linked to in the last X hours (obvious problems with nasty links though...)
23:22.27starseekerunbelievable - I don't see ANY apps that mention the type of searching ircbrowse had.  I must be looking in the wrong place
23:41.55yukonbobhello, cadheads
23:54.59pooliowoot! an NMG cube works :D
23:55.28poolioOne line of code changed and voila. I recall thinking about t his bug while coding but I guess I never fixed / documented it.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080710

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080710

00:02.29pacman87sketch: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_wf05.png
00:02.29pacman87wireframe: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_wf04.png
00:02.42pacman87raytrace: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_rt10.png
00:05.02louipcswept around Z?
00:05.21pacman87yes
00:05.48pacman87the sketch is revolved about its y-axis, which i told revolve to line up with the 3d Z-axis
00:06.22louipccool
00:06.53pacman87showing the 'auto-close' for open sketches
00:07.16louipcyeah I was wondering heheh
00:09.40*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@216.114.141.108)
00:10.23*** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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00:42.54brlcadpoolio: yahoo! .. pics?! :)
00:46.23brlcadpacman87: interesting closure on the base -- does it stay open if the base of those two segments line up perfectly? do they line up now?
00:47.41brlcadif they do line up, that's the one case I might have expected it to stop at the inner segment
00:50.56pooliobrlcad: err...it looks exactly the same as brep_cube/breplicator/etc...
00:52.03poolioI'm working on generalizing to not just 4-sided things now. Is there a way to define surfaces shaped like say, triangles? I know there is...I'm just not quite sure how :) The approach I was going to do was creating a rectangle that encloses the area and cutting out of that.
00:52.06brlcadah, k
00:53.19brlcadthat example file I pointed you at made a triangle..
00:54.36poolioYes, but it did so by creating a rectangular suface and trimming a triangle
00:55.04brlcadpacman87: oh, I see what you did now .. never mind :)
00:55.16brlcadthe rt is "upside down" from what I thought I was looking at
00:58.11pacman87brlcad: yeah, they stop because on the inside, it's a zero length hit segment, so i ignore it
01:04.49brlcadoh.. heh, I was thinking that if you draw lines from the endpoints to the y axis, the wider base ends up connecting the two edges on the outside leaving the base open yet the narrow top has a clear path the the y axis for both segment endpoints so you end up with a thick top
01:09.24brlcadfrom a 'top' view, render rt -k 0,0,1,0 .. what does that look like?
01:10.01pacman87lookign down along Z?
01:11.31pacman87two circles
01:11.39pacman87bright white center, grey outside that
01:12.08pacman87*two concentric circles
01:15.20brlcaderm
01:15.35brlcadyou said https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_wf05.png is rotating around the +Y axis?
01:15.54pacman87that is the sketch
01:16.00brlcadcutting +z should cut it in half (a "C")
01:16.22pacman87it rotates about the sketch's y axis
01:16.32pacman87the 3d axis is 0,0,1
01:16.38brlcadahhh
01:16.53brlcadso left view with 0,1,0,0
01:21.56pacman87rt -F/dev/X -C 128/192/255
01:24.03pacman87oops
01:24.09pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_rt11.png
01:43.40brlcadcool!
01:43.47brlcadwierd black line...
01:44.03brlcadif that's straight-on, it's probably a bug
01:44.42brlcadnormal going the wrong way on grazing or something
02:16.09pacman87no, it's a little above
02:16.19pacman87straight-on is buggy
02:16.39pacman87so is looking along the revolve axis
02:16.54pacman87those i'll have to handle as special cases
02:26.05pacman87s/above/below
02:30.21brlcadcool
02:30.49pacman87is there a way to choose 'X' from commandline after -c?
02:47.12pooliobrlcad: hmm...so code works with rectangular faces...triangles make it blow up for some reason :\
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03:15.27brlcadpacman87: '
03:15.33brlcad'X' ?
03:15.48brlcadpoolio: ahh :)
03:16.05pacman87attach (nu|X|ogl)[nu]?
03:17.34brlcadooh, *mged* -c .. was thinking rt -c :)
03:22.05brlcadyes, either answer X at the attach prompt or run "attach X" afterwards
03:23.00pacman87i was hoping for a one-line way to start mged so i could skip the prompt
03:23.22pacman87/usr/brlcad/bin/mged -c ~/brlcad/test/open.g
03:23.50brlcadahh, interesting
03:23.51pacman87if it's possible to have -c take an argument
03:24.00brlcaddon't think anyone has ever asked that :)
03:24.02pacman87/usr/brlcad/bin/mged -c X ~/brlcad/test/open.g
03:24.16pacman87well, i restart mged every time i compile
03:24.34brlcadno, at least not optionally and still be able to tell the diff with a filename arg that optionally follows
03:25.08pacman87what about just -X instead of -c
03:25.29brlcadi do too, but mged -c file.g[enter][enter] does the trick for me ;)
03:26.08pacman87it defaults to nu, right/
03:26.09pooliobrlcad: So I failed a bit on some basic geometry stuff. I'm trying to enclose a face in a rectangular surface. I want to compute 2 points on the plane that will be the lower left/upper right of the rectangle. Is there an easy way of doing this?
03:26.09pacman87?
03:26.48brlcad-x and -X are taken, they are debug options for almost every one of brl-cad's apps
03:26.58pacman87-cX?
03:27.07brlcadlibrt and libbu respectively
03:27.58brlcad-cX is no different than -c -X
03:28.08pacman87--cX?
03:28.15brlcad(think tar -xvf == tar -x -v -f
03:28.23pacman87yeah, i forgot about that
03:29.45brlcadcould maybe add "-a display_manager", e.g. -a X
03:30.02brlcador take over the deprecated -n
03:30.38pacman87would that imply -c?
03:30.58pacman87ie, would specifying the display manager make sense for non-classic mode?
03:37.21starseekerbrlcad:  Random mostly off topic question - what's the leading finite element library with a license compatible with BRL-CAD?
03:42.40brlcadright now -c == -n and both are optionless
03:43.37brlcadbut yeah, a -a would imply -c
03:44.23brlcadstarseeker: why our own libfem of course!
03:44.49starseeker:-)
03:44.52brlcaddepends, you wanting meshing, analysis, or both?
03:45.05brlcadopen soure fea/fem sucks
03:45.49starseekerwas thinking anything we don't have that we would need to do in-BRL-CAD analysis...
03:46.12starseekernotes that the first hit on google for libfem is the mailing list for Liberty and Feminism
03:46.55brlcadgmesh is probably one of the better fem tools, i've heard of impact for fea but not looked into it
03:47.26brlcadthey're about as far away from high-end commercial fea codes as we are from full-blown catia
03:48.34starseekerow
03:48.57brlcadpacman87: not pertinent to what you're needing, but if you didn't know -- you can add a command after the .g file and mged will run it
03:49.02starseekerIs openFEM worth anything?
03:49.03brlcadand then quit..
03:49.25brlcadcould add a mod to make certain commands keep mged running
03:49.39brlcadones (like attach) that make no sense as single-action commands
03:49.47brlcadso this would work: mged -c brlcad/db/moss.g attach X
03:50.37pacman87can you do multiple commands?
03:51.49brlcadmged -c brlcad/db/moss.g "attach X ; puts hello"
03:52.41brlcadalternatively, it'll take stdin too so you can batch commands together
03:53.03brlcade.g. mged -c blah.g <<EOF
03:53.04brlcadtops
03:53.06brlcadwhatever
03:53.08brlcadEOF
03:53.43brlcador put that in some mged_script and "mged -c blah.g source mged_script" instead
03:54.03brlcadstarseeker: yeah, they're pretty good
03:54.16brlcadnot so much a tool but set of routines
03:54.31starseekerAh
03:55.30starseekerguesses this sounds like a situation where maybe we will end up creating a libfem :-)
03:55.34brlcadinria's pretty intense in their research
03:55.50brlcadthey're a research powerhouse
03:55.55starseeker:-)
03:57.48starseekergroans as he updates his gentoo profile and starts one more round of re-compiles...
03:58.46starseeker'course, Mike is already working on some FEM stuff, IIRC...
04:01.14brlcadinria is the source of gems like OCaml and SmartEiffel
04:01.29brlcadoh, and you probably know of coq and scilab
04:01.31starseekerAh, yes - Scilab too, IIRC
04:01.35starseekerheh - yep
04:01.53starseekercoq is amazingggggggggg
04:02.20brlcadyeah, mike hooked an importer into sandia's cubit
04:02.42brlcadcubit is pretty snazzy, they have one of the *best* mesher libs
04:03.19brlcadand one of the best low-budget fem tools (alas not fully open source nor free)
04:03.27brlcadthough their geometry lib is lgplg
04:03.50brlcadthere mesh lib is the bread n' butter, though, and they're not letting go
04:04.08starseekerhmm - is there any chance at all they can be made to see reason?
04:04.35brlcadonly if someone(tm) hooked brl-cad into their backend as the geometry format and geometry engine
04:05.02brlcadthey have to charge "something" for cubit as they use the ACIS engine
04:05.12starseekeroh
04:05.18brlcadlicensing issues
04:05.21starseekergoogles ACIS
04:06.56starseekerhmm.  Would they be supportive of a port or fight the idea?
04:07.11brlcadhook all of our converters, librt, libged, libwdb, libbu, and libbn together into one clean unified object-oriented API, and we overlap about 75%-90% of what ACIS does, they're the big dog of CAD kernels
04:08.04starseekerouch
04:08.04brlcadoh everyone would be supportive, sandia said they'd love it (if it worked as well/better)
04:08.22brlcadjust a lot of work for somewhat minimal payoff and no manpower to dedicate
04:08.39brlcadreally begs for BREP support being fully in place first as well as our OO geometry engine
04:08.54brlcad(next year's priority)
04:09.00starseekerAh
04:09.57starseekerlooks for his API scrubbing gear...
04:11.32starseekerSo it makes the most sense to do BREP and the OO engine (needed anyway) and then use the new functionality + cleanup to get cubit off of the ACIS gravy train
04:11.44starseekerand thus take advantage of some really good code
04:12.19brlcadwe would increase (developer) interest in BRL-CAD by more than an order of magnitude if we had an ACIS-compatible geometry kernel API
04:12.44starseekerDoes ACIS publish the specs for their API?
04:12.53brlcade.g. something that'd convert an acis call into our geometry engine, like wine
04:13.10starseekernods
04:13.44brlcaddon't think so, you'd have to (legally try to) reverse engineer it
04:13.53starseekerow ow ow
04:14.30brlcadjust guessing, I haven't searched too hard given our other priorities
04:14.38starseekerright
04:16.02brlcadreally need BREP/NURBS representation working, CSG eval of NURBS working, tessellation of NURBS, LIBGED completed, and our object-oriented geometry engine working before working on that becomes a tractable semi-even-thinkable/practical task
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04:16.28brlcadhowdy andrecastelo_
04:16.36brlcad~andrecastelo_++
04:17.10brlcadexcitedly anticipates a flat-shaded image
04:17.30louipcö
04:19.17yukonboblike 'toon-shading?
04:19.37starseekerHmm - http://doc.spatial.com/r18/index.php/InterOp:Connect/ACIS
04:20.04brlcadyukonbob: no, that'd be cell-shading
04:20.21brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shading
04:20.32yukonbobs/cell/cel/
04:20.49brlcadnods
04:21.05brlcadmore like the two distance falloff images on the wikipedia page
04:21.28brlcad(more specifically the left first, then next get the right working)
04:22.07starseekerLooks like at least some of ACIS has public docs, although they have some "coming soon" links to what is probably the core ACIS docs
04:23.50brlcadstarseeker: this makes me think it's entirely closed even if you do find bits n pieces: http://www.caddigest.com/subjects/adsk_inventor/select/grabowksi_shapemanager.htm
04:24.24brlcadotherwise one of the other 4 billion dollar per year cad giants would have done it already
04:25.27starseekerhmm
04:26.38starseekerDepends on what he means by "expose the API" - that sounds as if they have a full version of the ACIS sources and plan to keep working based on those
04:26.54starseekerunless I'm reading the article wrong
04:28.08brlcadbut that they're forced to shimmy a layer between their kernel and the acis api (so they cannot possibly be a drop-in replacement)
04:29.07starseekerRight, but I'm reading that as hiding the ACIS API because their license to the source doesn't let them just take it and expose it - they'd be exposing ACIS's api using ACIS's own source code behind it
04:29.23starseekerSo they're keeping the ACIS source, but using a different API
04:29.30starseekereasier than a new kernel, I'd guess
04:31.48starseekeris hoping there is a difference between "exposing" and "implementing from scratch" the API
04:33.27starseekerkinda unclear though
04:35.05starseekerYeah, thought so - Autodesk proposed to continue based on the ACIS code:  http://www.caddigest.com/subjects/adsk_inventor/select/grabowski_buzzkross.htm
04:37.06brlcadyeah, i know the article was referring to multiple things
04:37.35brlcadregardless of them 'extending' acis or not -- the fact that they had to make their own api layer
04:37.45starseekeryep
04:37.46brlcadapi == headers == some source
04:38.35brlcadthere are acis headers for cubit, but have to specifically ask for them (and hey have clauses in them saying no redistribution)
04:38.42brlcadno authorized, that is
04:38.53brlcader, unauthorized
04:39.37brlcador even better -- just do what acis does but do it even better
04:39.53starseekerRight
04:40.25brlcadhence libged and new geometry service which begs a middle oo geometry engine
04:41.16brlcadyay for it finally being prioritied (started that particular crusade as a student when I started, that brl-cad needed an OO api)
04:41.50starseeker:-)
04:42.17brlcadMinuteElectron: any luck on figuring out why the contact page won't prompt a captcha? :-)
04:42.51brlcadnew spammer started two weeks ago, I've gone from about 2-5 a day to 20-50 a day
04:43.29starseekerknows FEM analysis is long term at best, but had a random interest pop up
04:43.36starseekerprobably needs sleep...
04:46.57louipcthat captcha was tough. It took me three tries to get it right
04:48.22brlcadwoot, mafm's up to the second contributor's page now that rt^3 ohloh stats are fixed
04:48.46brlcadputs him in the gsoccer lead
04:49.16starseekernow if only I could build it...
04:49.17brlcadstarseeker: you're a mere 50 away from front-page ;)
04:50.19starseeker50?
04:50.25brlcadcommits
04:50.29starseekerheh
04:50.31starseekerah :-)
04:50.32brlcadhttp://www.ohloh.net/projects/3996/contributors
04:50.50brlcadlouipc: which one?
04:51.06brlcad(there are three)
04:51.15louipcoh when I registered for the wiki
04:51.31brlcadah, that should have been recaptcha
04:51.38brlcadit's good stuff
04:52.02brlcadthat's what I *want* on the contacts page, but can't figure out how to enable it
04:52.24starseekerblegh - primary language XML
04:52.33starseekerhangs head in shame
04:52.46brlcadhehe
04:53.11starseekerwill write his spring tool just for the hell of it...
04:53.33brlcadspring?
04:53.43brlcadooh
04:53.51brlcadright
04:54.07starseekerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_(device)
04:54.16starseekerno one will care, but it will be fun
04:54.21brlcadcould try to implement a helical sweep
04:55.49starseekerheh :-)
04:57.27starseekerthat might be a good way to do advanced shapes like springs with elliptical wires
04:59.17starseekeror the spring in the lower right corner here:  http://www.spring-makers-resource.net/images/compressionspringgroup.gif
05:01.25starseekerinserting pipes with libwdb looks to be fairly complicated all by itself
05:04.16pacman87starseeker: would you be modelling the spring behavior, or jsut the position?
05:04.43louipcyes do the helical sweep please
05:05.29starseekerpcman87:  Initially just the position
05:05.44starseekerpacman87:  Behavior modeling would probably require FEM
05:06.05starseekeror one heck of a mathematical model
05:06.16louipcbehaviour depends on the type of material too
05:06.23pacman87i was thinking more in terms of F = -kx
05:06.25starseekerexactly
05:06.51starseekerpacman87:  What would you do with F=-kx?
05:07.01pacman87um...
05:07.31starseekeranimate it?
05:07.44pacman87pass it off to libphy created in next year's gsoc?
05:08.01starseekerWell, you could assign a behavioral equation as an attribute
05:09.23starseekerhas always had the knack for making the most seemingly simple little problems complex and challenging... sigh
05:10.11pacman87dealing with the behavior side of it in BRL-CAD is over my head
05:17.50brlcadreminds starseeker of http://www.wingimp.org/tutorial/3d_maze/3dmaze.jpg
05:23.08brlcadstarseeker: doc/IDEAS .. could implement a Kaleido primitive or a Kaleido proc-db :)
05:24.13brlcadnot that it's any more practical, but pretty cool
05:24.18brlcadhttp://www.math.technion.ac.il/~rl/kaleido/
05:35.21starseekerSo either hook the kaleido code to a primitive or tie it to a proc-db?  Hmm :-)
05:35.29brlcadremoves revolve from his ideas.html page given latest progress!
05:36.24starseekersleeps now...
05:36.49brlcadmm.. pull command
05:39.05brlcadstrikes out the docbook tasks too!
05:41.59brlcadfor those motivated or bored: http://brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html
05:48.36brlcadfigures he should probably nap a bit too
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10:06.46mafmhi
11:30.21mafmCIA-60: register my commit, at once! >:|
11:30.36brlcadit's slower notifications no
11:30.38CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31774 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Application.cxx Application.h): Adding methods for basic camera manipulation, and to add a sample geometry to the scene
11:30.38brlcadnow
11:30.42mafm:)
11:30.47mafmgoody
11:30.58mafmtime for a cookie for mafm (lunch), bbiab
11:31.12brlcad~cookies mafm
11:31.15ibotACTION hands mafm a nice, steaming chocolate chip cookie, hot from the oven
12:06.46CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31775 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/wdb_obj.c: A better fix for the dbconcat infinite loop bug.
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12:19.18mafmcookies, yay \o/
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12:23.45CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31776 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Commands.h GeometryConversion.cxx GeometryConversion.h): Adding GeometryConversion, and modifying the command so we can create at least sample tetraedrons
13:37.58mafmbrlcad: would an orbital camera be enough, or it would be better another/different modes?
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14:01.43lleroy?
14:02.30mafm!
14:02.46lleroyhelp
14:03.47lleroycommands
14:04.53lleroyhi... can anyone help me with a problem in 7.12.4 ?
14:05.09lleroydb_lookup(-n) failed: -n does not exist
14:05.12mafmprobably not me, but if you shoot somebody could eventually help
14:05.25lleroywhile executing
14:05.27lleroy"_mged_ill -n -i $ri $spath"
14:05.28lleroy(procedure "solid_illum" line 14)
14:05.30lleroyinvoked from within
14:05.31lleroy"solid_illum $item"
14:05.33lleroy(procedure "lbdcHack" line 35)
14:05.34lleroyinvoked from within
14:05.36lleroy"lbdcHack .emid_0.listbox 43 10 99876703 id_0 s1 junkpath"
14:05.37lleroy(command bound to event)
14:05.47lleroyhmm... I never used irc, so I'm not sure how this works
14:06.10mafmlol, that's why you were writing "help, commands"? :D
14:06.21mafmbasically you write, and everybody can see it
14:06.36mafmif you stick for a bit somebody will hopefully tell you something :)
14:06.49lleroyyeah...
14:07.05lleroyhow can you see who is around ?
14:07.45CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31777 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/tra.c libged/vutil.c libtclcad/ged_obj.c): Mods to add more shift-grip functionality. Added more bindings to the new_view command.
14:08.13lleroyI posted a question on http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=2105803&forum_id=362510 a week ago, but I got no reply
14:11.37clock_lleroy: once I posted a bugreport on Samba and they fixed it after a year
14:12.39lleroyi see... I had feedback one issue I reported 4 years ago in mozilla recently:-)
14:13.48lleroything is, it seems so basic (like it's the first entry on one of the top level menu's and it's not working in a major release) so I hoped to get feedback somewhat quicker than a year
14:14.01clock_which one of the hundreds of thousands bugs they have was it? :)
14:14.52clock_lleroy: what did they say? That the version for which you reported is already discontinued so it's your fault?
14:15.28lleroynah, iirc they moved it to a future milestone or so :-;
14:15.34lleroy;-)
14:16.24clock_with software like this I think the term "trashheap" is more suitable than "milestone".
14:17.42mafmlleroy: depending on the client, you can see a list on some side of the window/tab/whatever showing you who's there
14:17.52mafmotherwise maybe "/whois #brlcad"
14:26.51*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo__ (n=chatzill@189.71.73.81)
14:31.55mafmhi andrecastelo
14:33.46andrecastelooh hi mafm
14:34.18andrecastelomy internet is not that stable and chatzilla reconnects after every disconnection
14:34.37andrecasteloso i usually have a few minions of my own in the channel (andrecastelo_ )
14:35.14mafmI only have one minion, he's called brlcad
14:35.22mafmbut he has life of his own :P
14:35.31andrecastelomafm: hahaha
14:36.46mafmdamn artificial intelligence!
14:46.17CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31778 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Application.cxx Application.h Commands.h):
14:46.25CIA-60BRL-CAD: More tweaks to the camera. I'm waiting for confirmation from other devels, but
14:46.29CIA-60BRL-CAD: I think that the proper thing to do is to create one or several camera modes
14:46.33CIA-60BRL-CAD: with better and more complete functionality, encapsulated in a proper way.
14:49.24lleroyandrecastelo: you still there?
14:49.51andrecasteloyes, why?
14:49.54CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31779 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/ (revolve.c revolve.h): revolve prep() and shot(): automatically close open sketches - still bugs with partial revolves
14:50.13pacman87i had that commit typed in last night, and apparently never hit enter...
14:50.18lleroyI posted a bug on the forum: http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=2105803&forum_id=362510
14:50.40lleroyand I wonder if this is a "yeah, we know about it" bug or a "that should normally work" bug
14:50.47mafmpacman87: sounds like lazy evaluation...
14:51.01lleroydb_lookup(-n) failed: -n does not exist
14:51.36pacman87mafm: i got distracted by more coding, and went to bed without looking back at that console tab
14:52.20mafmlleroy: what do you mean with "and I wonder if _this_ is a...", I cannot see any comment to that bug
14:53.01lleroyI mean... does this work in the released version, or is this broken ?
14:53.03mafmpacman87: so you only "evaluated" it just when you needed it commited, I guess ;)
14:53.20lleroyjust to know if it's broken due to my compiling it or if it's in the release
14:53.45pacman87i need a better process scheduler - shouldnt' have to wait all night to get processor time ;)
14:53.56mafmlleroy: well, the three guys that are babling actively in the channel (except for clock_) are newcomers to the project, afaik
14:54.18mafmand I only fired mged a couple of times, so I can't really confirm or deny..
14:54.46mafmyou'll probably have to wait around until some experienced devel appears
14:55.37mafmpacman87: you're thinking about overclocking yourself with coke, or what?! :)
14:55.38lleroymafm: ok thanks. It worked on 7.10.2 for windows... so I want to know if I did something wrong during compiling on slackware...
14:56.04pacman87no, i just need to renice 'sleep' to a lower priority
14:56.22*** join/#brlcad homovulgaris (n=madant@117.196.141.49)
14:56.29mafmlleroy: did you have some special compilation warnings?
14:56.33mafmhomovulgaris o/
14:56.53homovulgarishi all .. phew.. long time..
14:57.14homovulgarismafm: did u see my 200 minute build screenshot :(
14:57.20mafmpacman87: well, Linus sleeps 9+ hours per day, apparently; brlcad about 4 or less... your mileage may vary :D
14:57.29lleroymafm: it didn't exactly check each warning during compilation, to be honest...
14:58.52mafmlleroy: if you have the source around, maybe you can try to compile with "make -s", so it leaves only prominent warnings and not the whole compiler command line
14:59.02homovulgarispacman87: seems like revolve is making good progress :) hows the sketch editor wishlist going :) ?
14:59.03mafmso errors and warnings are easier to spot
14:59.21mafmhomovulgaris: you mean the mail about g3d? I did, yes
14:59.35lleroymafm: ok, will try tomorrow. unfortunately i cannot be around on irc when the developers are on
15:00.06homovulgarismafm: naah not the rt^3 build. brlcad build on my p3 took 197 minutes :P
15:00.15mafmlleroy: also you can try to write to brlcad-devel mailing list, it's probably the best place for things like this
15:00.37homovulgarishttp://parametrics.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/screenshot-deos-wrk-brlcad.png
15:00.43mafmhomovulgaris: building brlcad on arm, eh? :P
15:01.00*** part/#brlcad lleroy (n=chatzill@axsguard.bepco.com)
15:01.54homovulgarismafm: i'd experiment with rt^3 when i get my laptop hard disk fixed or when my desktop crosses the flood somehow :P
15:02.45mafmwhy is it so slow?
15:02.47homovulgarismafm: I had a few ideas about constraint representation in the new gui.. but that is pretty far away.. I need to finish a minimal system first :P
15:03.38mafmyes, I have quite a few things to do myself... :)
15:05.39pacman87d_rossberg: for closing an open sketch, right now i just have all open endpoints connecting directly to the y axis, instead of trying to string multiple open segments together.  i think this will be more consistant, as all of the added lines can be clearly differentiated from the original sketch.
15:06.07homovulgarischeck out Spirit sometime .. EBNF parser generator library.. almost even looks like BNF grammar :) http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_35_0/libs/spirit/doc/introduction.html
15:07.50mafmhomovulgaris: why is the compilation so slow?
15:10.33homovulgaris7 year old computer and processor with 128 MB ram :|
15:11.00mafmseesh
15:11.34mafmmight the access to a remote machine help you?
15:12.08homovulgaris:) with brlcad on it ?
15:12.38mafmI don't know if you can perform your work remotely
15:12.54mafmand if the lag would be a problem
15:12.59pacman87distcc?
15:13.25homovulgarisnaah.. i mean it is not that bad.. just the whole system build takes a long time.. as long as i have to do a make clean things are ok i guess
15:13.53mafmbut probably someone around (even me if there's nobody else with better chances) can offer you access to a better machine than that one
15:14.16homovulgarisgrrr.. I love my first computer :D
15:15.02mafmwhat's the problem with the floods anyway?
15:15.16d_rossbergpacman87: that's ok, automatically closing the loop will probable produce a result the user doesn't want
15:15.19mafmdid you have to move because of them or something?
15:15.39homovulgarisdesktop in college stuck with the courier service :D
15:15.39d_rossbergtherefore it isn't important how it looks like as long as it is consistant
15:15.54pacman87ok, that's what i thought; just making sure
15:16.17d_rossbergthe result should help the user finding the errors
15:16.37homovulgarishmm.. k .. me going back to writing grammar and finishing the parser :)
15:16.50mafmI see
15:18.53d_rossbergpacman87: your method can produce intersection in the closed loop you have to handle
15:19.37pacman87hmm?
15:23.47pacman87d_rossberg: intersections how?
15:25.27homovulgarisbrlcad: when passing information from C to C++ : specifically rt_*_params to pcParser.h objects, one method is to pass them as data structures : the existing unions, pointers and so on ( example pval.vectorp ) . Since I am writing a parser for constraint expressions anyways, should i consider transfering variable/parameter information to pcParser.h via pc_pc_set as parseable text ?
15:27.22homovulgarisbrlcad: for example,  something like "@Radius#2.3#4.2#2.8" .. which is better precision wise .. conversion and passing as string or passing on a fastf_t/double as such ? and which one whould i use ?
15:28.26d_rossbergpacman87: look at the example i send you by mail, if you connect the end point of the first line with the y-axis this connection line will intersect the second line of the sketch
15:31.28pacman87then the area to the left of the line (1,1.5); (1.5,2) will be open
15:31.44CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31780 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/book/tutorial_series/VolumeIII.xml: Markup through half of Table 8
15:33.39d_rossbergif you see the intersection and handle it it's ok
15:33.55homovulgarisstarseeker: did u think about making the industry and overview diagrams maintainable via xml ?
15:34.15pacman87d_rossberg: why does it need to be handled seperately?
15:34.46pacman87are you saying the hollow area is bad?
15:35.08d_rossbergnot seperately, but you have an implicite line on the y-axis which connects the two closing lines
15:46.59pacman87http://xkcd.com/371/
16:20.13mafm:D
16:57.53homovulgarispacman87: distcc is nice :)
17:00.51mafmhave to go now, take care
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17:15.44MinuteElectronmmh
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17:29.26brlcadwowsa, lots of backlog to respond to .. but I gots another couple hours of meeting to go still
17:30.05brlcadi'll be back, but yeah .. shouldn't need to rebuild everything every time, that's for sure
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17:42.07homovulgarisbrlcad: 403 Forbidden error while editing wiki
17:43.35MinuteElectronWhat page?
17:52.15homovulgarishttp://brlcad.org/w/index.php?title=Libpg_:_A_parametrics/constraint_library
17:52.59MinuteElectronDo you get this every time you try to edit that page, or just once?
17:53.40homovulgarisi edited it last yesterday i guess.. today when i am trying to restructure a bit .. 403
17:53.50homovulgaristried a couple of times..
17:54.13MinuteElectronI don't get an error, strange.
17:54.21geocalcwhat is the good svn to dl ?
17:54.36MinuteElectronbrlcad: Still looking into the CAPTCHA thing.
17:54.38homovulgarisgeocalc: u mean svn client ?
17:55.06geocalcno svn of brlcad
17:55.42homovulgarisoh.. i thought we had only the repository at sourceforge
17:56.01homovulgaris~cadsvn
17:56.01ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
17:56.24geocalcthanks
17:56.35homovulgarisnp
17:56.57homovulgarisMinuteElectron: you are able to edit the pages ? as in submit the changes ?
17:57.00MinuteElectronyes
17:57.17homovulgarisi get the error message when i make the changes and press either preview or show changes or submit changes
17:57.29homovulgarishmm.. weird..
17:57.31MinuteElectronI don't, which is odd.
17:57.33MinuteElectronyes
17:57.54homovulgarisk.. let me try anonymous editing
17:58.55MinuteElectronbrlcad: I'm stuck on this one, it seams very strange that the CAPTCHA point isn't being registered and no one in the drupal support knows either.  The only other thing I can think of is the upgrade to Druapl 6.
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18:02.03homovulgaristhe present CAPTCHA looks pretty nice . Are we having trouble with that ?
18:02.18MinuteElectronIt doesn't show up on the contact page.
18:02.39homovulgarisbrlcad: error message is You don't have permission to access /w/index.php on this server.
18:04.43homovulgarissame error from multiple browsers.. maybe my ip is in some banned range or something ?
18:12.45homovulgarisgeocalc: also check out http://brlcad.org/wiki/Building_from_SVN
18:12.45geocalcok thanks homovulgaris
18:12.45homovulgarisnp :) .. just ping this channel if u have any build trouble
18:15.49geocalc;)
18:16.17andrecastelobrlcad: my irc client reconnects on disconnection, so sometimes when I join the channel it's the client reconnecting
18:16.38andrecastelobut yes, i'm trying to tame RT_HIT_NORMAL, checking how it is used
18:17.03andrecasteloto find the normal vector
18:18.07andrecastelobut it is seg faulting.. I'm probably doing something wrong (i think it has something to do with soltab)
18:19.34andrecastelohere's the rayhit function, http://rafb.net/p/nwXIeQ98.html
18:29.31CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31781 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/tutorials/tire/ (19 files): Add docbook and images - user documentation for the tire procedure.
18:31.16starseekerhomovulgaris:  That's a difficult thing to attempt - svg is probably the best bet
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18:33.49starseekerthinks his inkscape file was/is a good start, but brlcad will probably need to look into it - there was a lot of very careful design put into things like font choices, colors, etc.
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18:45.00homovulgarisstarseeker:  I was thinking of something in dia with svg output.. but that wouldnt look very nice.. and inkscape is seriously kewl stuff..
18:45.45homovulgarissomebody should build up a software project based on this : revision controllable generated diagrams and images :)
19:06.13homovulgarisgoing to watch some dumb hbo to get my brain fresh :)
19:09.01CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31782 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/book/tutorial_series/VolumeIII.xml: Add other half of Table 8
19:56.38CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31783 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/book/tutorial_series/VolumeIII.xml: Markup through chapter 7, stub for references. Remainder will be included from articles.
19:57.38CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31784 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Added ae2dir and dir2ae commands to libtclcad's ged object.
20:04.23CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31785 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/dir2ae.c: Added ae2dir and dir2ae commands to libtclcad's ged object.
20:06.34*** join/#brlcad lleroy (n=51a4212d@bz.bzflag.bz)
20:10.33lleroyHas anyone had this problem : "db_lookup(-n) failed: -n does not exist" in "Primitive Selection"?
20:11.20lleroyI posted a problem on the sourceforge forum http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=2105803&forum_id=362510 some time ago but got no reaction...
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20:46.46CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31786 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c: Use MAX_FASTF instead of 1.0/0.0
21:08.30pacman87awww, i liked dividing by zero ;)
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22:21.21pacman87i think i just killed a bug
22:53.41pooliopacman87: code or real life??
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23:34.28*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code! || Release 7.12.4 is posted (source-only release)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080711

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080711

00:04.35PrezKennedybrlcad, the leader of project wilderness says he misses work
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01:54.14andrecastelobrlcad & ``Erik : flat shaded http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/5120/rtmltfscastleas2.jpg :D:D
01:54.34pacman87oooh, pretty!
02:06.43andrecastelopacman87: thank you! :D hehehe
02:06.56pacman87where'd the model come from
02:06.59pacman87?
02:08.27andrecastelohmm.. brlcad/brlcadInstall/share/brlcad/7.12.1/db/
02:11.20CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31788 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc9/libged/libged.vcproj: Added ae2dir.c and dir2ae.c.
02:28.31CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31789 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c: Expanded rayhit() to output a flat shaded image.
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03:36.03starseekerobserves his computer works much better when he has the correct IDE driver in the kernel...
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05:28.26*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
05:29.08RalithDoes there exist a more user-friendly modelling interface than mged?
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06:17.42homovulgarisRaltih: not presently , mafm is working on one. http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Mafm
06:21.40Ralithhomovulgaris: that's good to hear.
06:23.02homovulgarismged is a "little" tough to get used to .. but it is pretty functional once u start using it
06:23.46homovulgarisu can do things quite rapidly with the keyboard u know :)
06:23.49RalithI'm sure it is; however, I'm interested in leveraging brl-cad for an audience who are wary of anything not laden in widgets.
06:24.04homovulgarisoh..
06:24.06homovulgaris:)
06:24.16RalithPersonally, I prefer the keyboard; I use emacs for my generic text editor/IDE, for example.
06:24.25Ralithand in that respect I'm quite interested in learning mged in and of itself.
06:25.19Ralithhowever, I'm *more* interested to see if brl-cad as a whole is going to become itself accessible to people less interested in spending time learning an arcane interface than just messing around with a mouse to get some basics thrown together quickly and easily
06:25.50RalithAs you may be aware, other than brl-cad, there really isn't any respectable open source CAD system out there.
06:26.16homovulgarisyeah, i know :)
06:26.21Raliththe website cites a *very* impressive resume, which would seem to imply that brl-cad has finally broken that trend, but without a friendly interface, that's not very useful for my purposes.
06:26.49Ralithwhich would be a real shame, given that the user interface is probably the simplest portion of a professional-quality CAD system
06:26.59homovulgarisonce mafm's work is done, things should be pretty smooth
06:27.50Raliththat's really exciting :)
06:27.55Ralithgrabs the video
06:28.13homovulgaristhe lack of open source CAD systems is really spooky.. I personally majored in architecture last year and had to work entirely on proprietary software tools for instance
06:28.42Ralithyeah
06:29.20Ralithespecially since CAD is one of the things which would benefit most from the principles of open source
06:29.20homovulgarisand most of them have such high licensing fees. especially the ones with advanced features like CATIA for instance
06:29.45Ralithe.g. wouldn't it suck if your flagship product's designs were inaccessible because the software developer dropped support?
06:30.16Ralithof course, this generally moot as many CAD formats are well documented and supported.
06:30.40Ralithspeaking as someone largely unfamiliar with CAD systems, how does brl-cad compare to something like, say, solidworks?
06:30.40homovulgaris:) u work in CADD sector Ralith ?
06:30.43Ralithnah
06:30.50RalithI'm a hobbyist
06:31.03Ralithhoping to expand into CAD/CAM/CNC
06:31.30Ralithspecifically, using brl-cad with home-built rapid prototyping equipment
06:31.37homovulgarisbrl-cad has an impressive array of features. It is more useful for precision modeling and raytracing for physics simulations :)
06:32.01homovulgarisRalith: rapid prototyping is really kewl.
06:32.20Raliththe eventual goal being the capacity to manufacture precision custom parts with few restrictions and at very low cost
06:32.26homovulgarisRalith: I myself am quite interested in STL and CNC
06:32.46Raliththe approach I'm looking at is FDM
06:32.52Ralithhave you heard of the reprap project?
06:33.39homovulgarisbrl-cad has a larger array of tools around 400 and libraries.. but as u said , user friendliness is to be worked out a bit :)
06:33.40Ralith(FDM is neat because it proves to be pretty easy to build a rapid prototyper based on it)
06:33.44Ralithhehe
06:33.45Ralithyeah
06:34.04Ralithbut the same goes for the rest of the reprap project, so I figure by the time it becomes userfriendly to build, perhaps brl-cad will be userfriendly to use.
06:34.20homovulgarisbtw ;) I am just a gsoc student :D don't take these as official statements :P
06:34.23Raliththe project is seriously suffering from lack of powerful host software
06:34.37Raliththe rapid prototyper itself is moving along nicely, though
06:34.45homovulgarishmm.. will check out reprap
06:34.49Ralithit's really cool
06:35.08homovulgariswhat are the requirements from the host software ?
06:35.17Ralithlong-term goal is to produce a rapid prototyper that can manufacture itself; short term goal (already achieved) is to produce one that can manufacture the only hard-to-find and thus expensive parts
06:35.22Ralithwell, there's a few different bits
06:35.25Ralithfirst is the CAD system
06:35.34Ralithwhich I hope brl-cad will be able to provide
06:35.45Ralithright now a tool called Art of Illusion or something like that is being used
06:35.53Ralithit's some shitty java modeller that almost nobody likes :P
06:36.14homovulgaris:) i hope so too.. rapid prototyper building rapid prototyper sounds like an awesome project :)
06:36.20Ralithyeah
06:36.36Ralithyou can build the current model for under $1000, and it's quite useful already
06:36.41Ralithfar more than a proof of concept
06:36.44homovulgarisur work is hosted on the net somewhere ?
06:36.49Ralithit's not my work; I'm just a fan
06:36.52Ralithhttp://reprap.org/
06:37.05homovulgaris:) was just seeing reprap
06:37.40Ralithone of the more challenging host-side software requirements is the process of converting models to tool paths for the rapid prototyper
06:37.58RalithI don't suppose you know of any existing work in that area that would be applicable to a FDM system?
06:38.54Ralithcurrently, a home-grown java system is being used (I don't get the projects' obsession with java. Perhaps it's the only language the original developers knew.)
06:38.59Ralithit's slow and has problems.
06:39.13homovulgarisnope :) I had just a 1 year span to work on my thesis. so i worked mostly with conventional proprietary stuff :)
06:39.19RalithIt used to (I don't know about the current state) take longer to calculate toolpaths for an object than it took to actually build it
06:39.50homovulgarishm.. i am no big fan of java :|
06:39.54RalithI agree.
06:40.26Ralithluckily, the important bit (the rapid prototyper itself and the hardware that drives it) is all done in a much more professional manner.
06:40.26homovulgarisi mean i understand what they say about portability etc. etc. but i always feel unnecessary overhead
06:40.34Raliththe funny thing is, java isn't very portable
06:40.45homovulgaris;)
06:40.50RalithC(++) code written using the right libraries beats it any day.
06:41.18Ralithfor example, I doubt there's a java VM for netbsd on an ARM processor.
06:42.28homovulgarishmm.. there should be i guess
06:42.59Ralithand the overhead itself prevents it from being used properly on an embedded platform
06:43.14Ralithhell, it prevents it from being used on plenty of full-on desktop computers :P
06:43.21CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31790 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: added some files to be consistent with Makefile.am
06:43.47homovulgarisI better go grab some food :) Ralith, i will check out reprap further .. see u on this channel sometime, u should talk with brlcad (Sean) for better info regarding brl-cad btw ;)
06:43.56Ralithcool
06:43.59Ralithseeya
06:44.23homovulgariswill run reprap today
07:04.21brlcadmehhowdy gents
07:04.28brlcad:)
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07:18.07Ralithhullo
07:18.20RalithI'd hang around and ask questions, but it's past midnight over here and I need some rest
07:35.58CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31791 10/brlcad/trunk/ (BUGS TODO): fix the primitive selection bug in mged, reported on the forums by lleroy. details in the todo file.
07:40.42brlcadlleroy: I replied -- the bug made it into release
07:41.31lleroyok, thanks... I wondered if this was a bug or if this was due to my compilation.
07:41.35brlcadlleroy: there are a few trivial mods you can make that will work or you can use the command-line way as a work-around until it gets fixed -- thanks for the report, didn't know about it
07:41.56lleroybtw, what's in brlcad for collision detection?
07:42.20lleroyI mean to look into CAM toolpath generation...
07:42.25brlcadhomovulgaris: 200 minutes is certainly not the worst I've seen for a compile :-)
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07:51.44brlcadhomovulgaris: (reading and responding to scrollback chatter) .. probably needs to support both binary and some scriptable form -- I can imagine some full-constrained parametric object (a full vehicle) will be horribly inefficient to have it evaluate everything as strings, but that's probably what the user will input in creating them
07:54.04brlcadpacman87: d_rossberg's comments about self-intersecting your sketch when connecting to the y-axis is the same that I was referring to -- probably want to connect and stop when that happens instead of going all the way to the y-axis so you don't end up with open edges and infinitely thin walls
07:56.01brlcadMinuteElectron: cool, and thanks :-)
07:59.15brlcadpacman87: fyi, dividing by zero will cause a run-time abort exception for many environments
08:00.28brlcadgetting inf/nan results from a floating point unit is compilation and hardware dependent (relies on ieee conformance, which is a bad assumption) -- should always be using tolerance tests and other logic in order to get consistent reliable behavior
08:01.20brlcadPrezKennedy: heh, and the wilderness misses him too!
08:04.39brlcadandrecastelo: hah! awesome ... nice work, send that to erik if he doesn't see it here :)
08:07.33brlcadhomovulgaris: how dare you say you're "just a gsoc student" .. :-)
08:09.22brlcadaww
08:09.27brlcadcatches up
08:12.29lleroybrlcad: what support is available in brlcad for generating CAM toolpaths?
08:17.04brlcadlleroy: none directly -- your best bet is probably looking at your CAM hardware to see if it'll autogenerate for a given input format (like stl, which we can export)
08:17.28lleroybrlcad: I mean, if I were to implement CAM inside BRLCAD?
08:18.30lleroybrlcad: I remember reading on a forum something along the lines of "there is already support stuff implemented for CAM but...???"
08:18.31brlcadah, well in that regard there is a fair bit available and quite a few things that are possible
08:19.21brlcadshotlining can actually give you some surprisingly accurate (sampled) collision detection, high-performance, and robust
08:20.33brlcadif you wanted to generate toolpaths for a layered dual-axis cnc for example, i could see setting something up where you raytrace each layer of your model and infer solidity/paths from the result
08:21.14brlcadsimilar to what rtedge is doing for 2D images, but on a slice-by-slice approach up through a model
08:24.10brlcadfrom a ray-tracing perspective, overlaps == collisions, so you could conceivably write a tool that would read in some geometry, provide tooling options (gui, cmd line, or otherwise), and then use either parametric projections or sampled slicing or some volumetric approach for generating tool paths  (sort of a g-gcode converter in the end)
08:26.32lleroyis there something for region-querying (i.e. give me all objects that intersect an object)
08:26.58lleroyor where their bounding box/sphere intersects this box/sphere
08:28.40brlcadperforming the latter would be really trivial if there's not a routine already for that
08:29.11brlcadthere's not something to query existing overlaps that intersect, though that certainly depends on current object/viewing states
08:29.19lleroyyes, but doing so efficient using something along the lines of kdtree?
08:29.42brlcadyeah, that's what I was trying to think if there is something
08:30.05brlcadnothing that comes to mind that uses the spatial partitioning, but I'd have to rummage around librt a bit to be sure
08:30.07lleroyis there a partitioning scheme in use in librt
08:31.12brlcadyeah, definitely -- this question comes up a fair bit, I should really document it somewhere.. :-)
08:32.30brlcadit actually supports a variety of space partitioning mechanisms
08:34.20brlcadthere's a BSP implementation and a hybrid grid-based partitioning scheme in place presently
08:35.48brlcad(which isn't so much like traditional gridding, it dynamicly sizes, attempts to balance objects per grid cell, etc)
08:37.15brlcaddefault though is a non-uniform binary space paritioning tree
08:41.15brlcadthat's also, though, why I was referring to using the shot-liner since a) that uses space partitioning and is fast/robust, and b) is how you evaluate that an overlap actually exists regardless (since there is potentially unevaluated CSG and other geometry)
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08:52.09lleroybrlcad: something completely different: I was trying to understand the mged_ill problem, and I wonder where the code jumps to when _mged_ill is called... (i suppose it jumps from tcl to C, but I failed to find the entry point into the C code)
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10:16.20alex_jonibrlcad: seen http://code.google.com/p/wildcat-cad/ ?
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10:28.38mafmhi
10:30.54mafmbrlcad: did you see the question about the camera yesterday?
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11:05.17homovulgarisbrlcad: :O more than 200 ?
11:05.24homovulgariswhat was it on :)
11:08.17homovulgarisbtw, i wanted to use the ax_boost_base.m4 macro i added using something like this addition to the configure.ac http://rafb.net/p/v3tpKU36.html
11:08.42homovulgarisbut it gives some trouble while configuring in tcl saying LDFLAGS was not set during the last run
11:09.07homovulgarisis there something additional i have to do other than adding the macro to m4 dir and the code to configure.ac
11:09.45homovulgarisand also , did u see my question about passing data about variables to C++ by strings ?
11:10.15homovulgarissorry if u already replied.. is there any way to check up logs .. the ones at ibot.rikers is always one day old right ?
11:15.19alex_joni10:38 <@brlcad> homovulgaris: (reading and responding to scrollback chatter) ..
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12:32.07samhowdy
12:34.06mafmhi
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12:47.31sambrlcad: I have two patches to suggest; one prevents "configure" from being removed upon "make distclean", and the other sets CONFIG_TS in the proper format
12:47.32samhttp://zoy.org/~sam/patches/patch-brlcad-preserve-configure.diff
12:47.32samhttp://zoy.org/~sam/patches/patch-brlcad-debian-friendly-date.diff
12:51.50sammore generally, "make distclean" renders the source tree unusable unless you run autogen again
12:52.35sam(which it shouldn't do)
12:52.48samI suggest creating a "make maintainerclean" rule instead
13:15.50brlcadalex_joni: yes, I commented on the work a couple weeks ago -- and some chatter on grabowski's mailing list where it was announced
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13:17.25brlcadmafm: I saw the comments in the commits and your wiki update
13:17.47brlcadbut not a specific question
13:17.57brlcadseveral camera modes would be good to have
13:18.27mafmexamples?
13:18.27brlcadhowdy sam! :)
13:19.08mafmfor kbd control is not much of an issue, but I don't know for making a window to control the camera
13:20.48brlcadsam: for the first, understandable though it was intentional to make distclean restore the sources to a *checkout* state
13:21.13samyeah, I understand the idea
13:21.20brlcadwe could of course get that with another rule, but were intentionally avoiding having a plethora of clean rules when one goes "all the way"
13:21.23sammaybe it's just misc/debian which needs a makeover
13:21.53samit's the first project I see where "make distclean" doesn't allow you to reconfigure though
13:22.33brlcadit's very bikesheddish to me -- not a big deal either way -- but there are undoubtedly other mods that would be needed to make it clean up to a dist state
13:22.48brlcadthough I might have already started
13:22.56brlcade.g. the Makefile.in files
13:23.26brlcadsure, I understand the tradeoff -- just saying it was indeed intentional, we distclean and run autogen.sh
13:23.52brlcaddistclean is run prior to making a dist, so our devs have to go through the full release prep
13:24.40brlcadsam: curious about the second patch -- it should already be setting that with the LC_ALL=C that preceeds
13:26.08sambrlcad: my bad, I missed the LC_ALL=C
13:26.16sambut the important part is the -R flag
13:26.29samdebian/changelog needs to be in a very specific format
13:26.46brlcadi'm on a bsd atm, what does -R do?
13:27.55samRFC822 format
13:27.56brlcadmisc/debian is/was user-contributed by someone that was trying to set it up in apt, you're welcome to take it over if you like
13:28.06brlcadthey've not continued their efforts
13:28.30samI'm afraid I would make a sloppy maintainer for such a big piece of software
13:28.50brlcadnods
13:28.59brlcadand there are still integration issues to sort out
13:29.35samI can provide patches during my quest to a working brlcad package though :)
13:29.57brlcadsure ;)
13:30.10brlcadwant commit access to work on that or prefer patches?
13:33.37samas you wish
13:39.36CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31792 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: apply CONFIG_TS patch from sam hocevar to make the date stamp return in RFC822 format. breaks compilation timing, so might need to make sh/elapsed.sh handle 'one more' format
13:40.42CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31793 10/brlcad/trunk/Makefile.am: we already removed the Makefile.in clobbering for distclean, so go the extra mile and keep configure too; patch from sam (thanks)
13:50.33CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31794 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: special thanks to sam hocevar for his build system tweaks and debian integration testing
13:52.02CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31795 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: sammy is another (commit) nick
13:52.46samwow, that was fast :)
13:54.07brlcadyou have commit now, you're a fairly known quantity and all changes are pretty closely scrutinized for this project regardless
13:54.47brlcadbut either way, thanks for the mods .. it will be really cool to finally get into apt cleanly some day
13:55.24brlcadtrunk is unstable if you're running/testing things, there's a separate stable branch for release integration testing
13:55.28homovulgarisi look forward to apt-get install brlcad :)
13:55.42brlcadyeah, that request comes up like once a month it seems
13:55.47samI was surprised brlcad wasn't in Debian
13:55.58samI found packages but they're only i386 and I run amd64
13:56.24brlcadthat was the last time it was seriously worked on, outside of build fixes done for ubuntu
13:57.39samthe task is huge: unfortunately Debian still has tcl8.5 and itcl3.1
13:57.41brlcadthe biggest problem for integration is that brl-cad is big and with an extensive heritage .. developed since early 80's, it's more like X11 than it is like, say, gimp or even blender
13:58.32brlcadso it was developed to install (like many proprietary apps or X11) into an isolated root given the conflict reality
13:58.38samyeah, I could see that... commit messages from 1983 :)
13:59.09brlcadwe've got most of that fixed now, but there are still a few critical issues remaining (one being proper system incrTcl detection)
13:59.30brlcadand our high-conflict potential libs: librt, libbn, libbu
14:00.13samare the contribs linked statically into brlcad, or installed in a separate suffix?
14:00.15brlcadthey're our core libs and predate those we conflict, but librt is still pretty prevalent (albeit deprecated)
14:00.54brlcadideally they're linked dynamic for package managers
14:01.04brlcadthey're only compiled and linked if not detected
14:01.48brlcadwhether we build static or dynamic is a build setting, defaults to dynamic/shared libs
14:01.59brlcadour install becomes several GB in side if it's static
14:02.07brlcads/side/size/
14:04.07brlcadso to avoid the conflicts, I think the ultimate goal is to just set up the build system so that a /usr prefix will default to /usr/lib/brlcad/VERSION etc for the libs
14:04.18brlcadi think i've resolved all of our bin conflicts
14:17.54brlcadmafm: heh
14:18.02brlcad(and hi) :)
14:18.23mafmhiya
14:18.34brlcadI didn't respond because it seemed more a comment than a question :)
14:18.49mafmI see
14:19.05mafmwell, it's because I don't know the level of sofistication desired
14:19.25mafmin geometry editors you don't need "follow player" modes and things like that
14:19.30brlcadfor clarity, you're talking about how the view responds to mouse events, yes?
14:19.38mafmso I figured that orbital mode (with zoom) could be enough
14:20.11mafmmore to kbd events, but could be mouse too
14:20.13brlcadyou need a "follow player" mode if you have animation/timeline support where there's a camera being tracked
14:20.56mafmare animations supported by brl-cad?
14:21.10brlcadcrude, but yes
14:21.14mafmhmm
14:21.30brlcadI wouldn't worry so much about that right now though
14:21.54brlcadI see two immediate styles that are needed, one being classic "trackball" view support
14:21.59mafmwell, the orbital idea can follow a given point, only that it follows it always from the same "orbital-stationary" position
14:22.14brlcadthe other being our classic shift-grips
14:22.41mafmwith "follow player" I also meant to smooth curves when following the players and so on... that's mostly needed for games with 3rd person view
14:23.29mafmwell, I was about to create a somewhat complex and useful camera mode, with accompanying window, so I think that it would be helpful to know
14:23.32brlcadah, we might be talking about two slightly different things -- I could see having an orbital mode with trackball or with shift-grips
14:24.09mafmok, I describe
14:24.12brlcadorbital would definitely be useful to have early on, though -- imagine browsing through a geometry database, pulling up a piece of geoemtry, and your preview spins around like in a game preview panel
14:24.43mafmfor me orbital is having a central point, and zoom in and out
14:24.58mafmand being able to rotate up-down and left-right
14:25.26mafmso the camera is always in a point of the sphere, looking to the center
14:25.33brlcadsure, that's basically an immobile trackball
14:25.34mafmbeing the diameter of the sphere variable
14:25.51mafm(and following the center, if it happens to be mobile)
14:26.40mafmanother mode is 1st person as in doom, where basically the controls to move the kbd control the camera too, and have some additional keys to look up&down and so on
14:27.10mafmfollwing-player is 3rd person, and would be tracking the player from a few meters behind
14:27.28mafmso you're in a kind of chariot, being the player the horses
14:27.44mafmof course lots of small variations are possible in all the modes :)
14:27.52brlcadnods
14:28.49brlcaddo you intent to tie a viewing mode to input behavior, or is it merely a degrees of freedeom matter that's separately considered from input?
14:28.50mafmso how's trackball and shift-grips related with this? I'm not familiar with it
14:29.36brlcadbasically, those are input control styles
14:30.18brlcadtrackball navigation is what most modelers use by default
14:30.23samby the way, I'd like to explain why I wanted to try brlcad
14:30.28sammaybe it isn't the right tool
14:30.29mafmthe viewing mode would be in general tied to input behaviour I think -- keys to go left/right, up/down, zoom in/out...
14:30.54samI'd like to create solids whose colour values are f(x,y,z)
14:30.57brlcadsam: if it gets you contributing code/patches/fixes/enhancements, then of COURSE it's the right tool ;)
14:31.03mafmalso imagine a window: it could have 4 arrows pointing to cardinal points, and one +/- for zoom, etc
14:31.05samthen perform CSG operations on them
14:31.54samin order to visualise what colours remain
14:32.33brlcadmafm: okay, if you're going to tie them together, that works -- but probably have to clarify/learn what at least is meant by shift-grips and trackball modes then -- both use the view's eye point as the manipulation point
14:36.03mafmis "trackball navigation" something specific about navigating with trackballs, or just an axis-based mouse?
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14:36.37mafmor just to only have as input a trackball, instead of mouse and keyboard?
14:40.09mafmimagine that you have 1st person view... you can go forward, backward and turn with arrow keys; look up&down with page up&down; etc
14:40.21mafmbut you can also assign similar actions to mouse
14:41.02mafmmoving the mouse is looking to a particular direction, clicking some button is run, etc
14:42.08mafmwhen I speak about a camera mode is basically to have a class encompassing everything, and then you can assign kbd/mouse/trackball events to controll it, with commands similar to zoomIn, turnLeft, goToHomePosition....
14:42.49mafmbut you can also have several camera modes, so each time that you switch the camera mode, your buttons act also differently in the way that you move the view
14:43.55mafmso I'd like a bit of input in what's desired to have input on what's needed/desired if possible, so I implement something sufficiently complex to accomodate to the needs, but not overengineer it
14:44.00brlcadmafm: it has nothing to do with an actual trackball
14:44.47brlcadit's probably what you're most used to actually, started from old old code from sgi back in the 80's, and a trackball.c that most have continued to use over the years
14:45.09brlcadspinning around a simple model in opengl, you have basic trackball control
14:46.10brlcadI know entirely what you mean by the various other modes (remember that I do also code for bzflag, we have most of those modes :)
14:46.51mafmyes, that's what I was guessing :D
14:47.07brlcadyou've run mged, yes?
14:47.11mafmyes
14:47.35brlcadnotice how it doesn't rotate the view around if you click-drag in the graphics window?
14:47.40brlcadit zooms
14:48.42mafmyes
14:49.33brlcadit's a "shift-grips" interface, where you get zoom in/out with buttons and no move event actions by default, shift+clicking+dragging, though, does one set of operations (e.g. panning), control+click+dragging does another (e.g. trackball rotation), etc
14:49.56brlcadthat's one input style that we'll definitely want to have available
14:50.23brlcadtaking it away would probably result in me being lynched
14:50.48brlcadbut doesn't mean it has to be default, just available ;)
14:50.48mafmlol
14:50.56brlcadthere's a doc on the website that details all the bindings
14:51.27mafmShift Grips Quick Reference Guide ?
14:51.30brlcadwe only need a follower mode if/when there is an animation track to follow -- we don't have that yet so I wouldn't focus on that one now
14:51.33brlcadyes
14:51.37brlcadit's just a simple table
14:52.04brlcada fly-through mode would definitely be useful/interesting
14:52.22brlcadand then having a trackball mode probably by default
14:52.26mafmok, let me read and think about it and explain you my idea about implementing it
14:52.50brlcadsam: hmmm
14:53.11brlcadsam: that entirely depends what you expect to happen when you perform the CSG operations
14:54.00brlcadyou can do what you suggest now, but it sounds like maybe you're wanting addition/subtraction of colors (for union/subtration ops) .. and 'something' for intersection
14:56.42mafmbrlcad: trackball up&down&left&right just moves the center of the window, or moves the perspective looking at the same 3D point (I guess that it's the 1st, with another to zoom in&out)?
14:57.35sambrlcad: I just need substraction, so no colour "merging" would be involved
14:59.06CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31796 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/resources/README: Add basic readme explaining why the resources directory exists - this should be fleshed out later.
14:59.07brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/colors.png
14:59.16brlcadsomething like that?
15:01.35samyes, exactly
15:02.07sambut I also want the solids to have variable colour values (using a parametric function maybe?)
15:02.16brlcadoof
15:02.34brlcadthat'd be a shader
15:02.57brlcadcertainly doable and not hard, but you'd have to write some code to support it
15:03.12samand I'd need my GLX driver to understand shaders I guess
15:03.18brlcadno no
15:03.31brlcadray-trace shader, rather different
15:03.39samah, ok.
15:03.46brlcadmore like what pixar's renderman does for the movies
15:04.45brlcadwhen generating an image via ray-tracing, the ray hits a surface and calls upon a 'shader' to determine a color value there (for the intent of coloring a pixel image ultimately)
15:05.21samwould I be able to navigate in near realtime around the scene with a ~1500 vgr machine?
15:05.47brlcadso in that image, you're actually looking at two shaders -- one is a classic "phong" shader that shows surface curvature, specular highlights, etc .. the other is a very very simple "flat" shader that just returns the color set to the object
15:05.48samthe scene would have fewer than 10 cubes
15:06.41brlcadyou could certainly navigate the wireframe in realtime.. :)
15:06.45samlol
15:07.01brlcadthose images are renderings, ray-traced
15:07.55brlcadray-tracing 10 cubes in 'real-time' is certainly doable but it'd be through a different interface that doesn't use shaders
15:08.19sammmmh, maybe I just need a CSG library and my own OpenGL renderer
15:09.23brlcadthen it would be an opengl shader
15:13.35*** part/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@206-248-164-28.dsl.teksavvy.com)
15:17.18mafmbrlcad: trackball up&down&left&right just moves the center of the window, or moves the perspective looking at the same 3D point (I guess that it's the 1st, with another to zoom in&out)?
15:18.10brlcadthe latter if I understand you correctly
15:19.10brlcadimagine a large bounding sphere in your 3D view, click-dragging from the center to the left rotates that sphere (and the scene it hypothetically encompasses)
15:19.17mafmthe latter continues the object (rotates around given center), the former moves the window in a fixed Z plane
15:19.42mafmthe latter orbits*
15:20.33brlcadyes
15:25.44CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03sammy * r31797 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/URToolkit/tools/rlehdr.c: * rlehdr.c: fix a potential crash in the RLE header display function.
15:27.00mafmI see
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15:27.19mafmwell, then I think that I'll build a bit of infrastructure for supporting different modes
15:28.02brlcadyeah, I figured you'd need to support at least two styles
15:28.58mafmnicey nicey
15:29.09mafmI have work for most of next week, I guess
15:29.27brlcadmafm: here's an example of a basic (immobile) trackball: http://www.opengl.org/resources/code/samples/glut_examples/examples/dinoshade.c
15:29.46brlcadsimple lil glut example, gcc dinoshade.c -lglut
15:30.54dtidrowcls
15:31.09dtidrowugh, wrong window
15:31.16brlcad-bash: cls: command not found
15:31.32dtidrowunless it's aliased  ;-)
15:31.43dtidrowreally old habits die hard
15:32.06brlcadshame on you for aliasing dos commands :)
15:32.22dtidrowsee previous remark  ;-)
15:32.22CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31798 10/brlcad/trunk/ (11 files in 3 dirs): Added arot, eye and eye_pos functions.
15:32.24brlcadthey die even harder when you let them keep working
15:32.44dtidrowfewer keystrokes too
15:45.10mafmI cannot compile that thing
15:49.57brlcadmafm: really?
15:50.03brlcadwhat's your error?
15:51.27brlcadall of the glut_examples are pretty simple to compile, just have to have glut installed (headers/libs) and tell gcc where
15:51.41brlcadmaybe gcc dinoshade.c -lglut -lgl
15:53.08mafmthe glut I already figured out
15:53.23mafmbut there's a function from glext.h causing problems
15:53.55mafmdinoshade.c:(.text+0x1c25): undefined reference to `glPolygonOffsetEXT'
15:59.26CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31799 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/libged/libged.vcproj: Added ae2dir, arot, dir2ae, eye and eye_pos source files.
16:02.07brlcadmafm: try adding the snippet suggested here: http://www2.cemr.wvu.edu/~ejb/Instructions/node10.html
16:03.54brlcadi.e. add the wrapper or simply remove the EXT
16:03.59CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31800 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Add appendix A of VolIII as pipes tutorial, with corresponding changes for VolIII
16:04.00mafmfreeglut (./a.out): WARNING - Display string token not recognized:  stencil>=2
16:04.00mafmdinoshade: Sorry, I need at least 2 bits of stencil.
16:04.02mafm:D
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16:04.40brlcadhrm, i'll dig up a simpler example later then
16:04.46brlcadlunch!
16:04.49mafmoki
16:05.00mafmnp anyway, I'm quite busy
16:05.02mafmgood lunch!
16:15.19starseekerphooy - Apache FOP is known to have an issue (or more likely unimplemented feature) about not shrinking images to fit on a page
16:15.56starseekermakes note to get ahold of the FOP devs for an eta on that feature...
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16:24.56mafmhi homovulgaris
16:45.28poolioAha. My bug had to do with the fact that I fail at basic geometry. Wonderful.
17:01.39pacman87brlcad: self intersecting example: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_rt13.png
17:01.54pacman872 lines: ((1, 1); (2, 2)) and ((1, 1.5); (2, 2.5))
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17:28.17brlcadstarseeker: or grab their sources and try to implement it ;)
17:36.43pacman87brlcad: i don't see how "open edges and infinitely thin walls" are created, unless you mean along the circle traced by the point of intersection
17:37.12pacman87and that's not really different than a user-supplied self-intersecting sketch
17:39.24MinuteElectronbrlcad: thanks?
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17:52.06starseekerbrlcad:  :-P  yeah, I'll just take a couple minutes here...
17:52.58starseekerbrlcad:  Thanks to the joys of binary svn diffs, I should be able to size down for now and then revert to the original size if/when fop supports it again
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18:29.07brlcadpacman87: akin to having two segments 1,0 -> 1,1; and 2,0 -> 2,1; .. you can either make four segments that clamp the four "open" endpoints to x,0  .. or you can detect that the 2,0->2,1 segment will connect up with the other leaving you with two new segments at 2,0 -> 1,0 and 2,1 -> 1,1;
18:29.47brlcadMinuteElectron: for looking into the problem
18:30.22brlcadi was going to do the upgrade to 6 but the modules we're using weren't upgraded yet
18:31.01mafmI go now, have a good weekend in the case that I don't join :)
18:32.52MinuteElectronbrlcad: really, I wonder if they still haven't been...
18:33.02MinuteElectronI think theres a change to the skin system too =/
18:46.16CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31801 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Add projection shader tutorial
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19:09.12brlcadstarseeker: reminder on https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1990961&group_id=105292&atid=640803
19:09.35brlcadhe's not responded, so it might just need to move to bugs, but it's one that'd be good to fix
19:13.44starseekerOK, thanks - i'll take a look
19:14.06brlcadyou should be able to reproduce on your 30"
19:14.11starseeker:-)
19:14.23starseekerlet me commit ebm quick
19:14.34brlcaddoesn't have to be now/today, just a reminder
19:15.06brlcadlike to keep support requests and patches processed with fairly high priority (contrary to bugs and feature requests that might linger for years)
19:15.19starseekerright
19:15.27CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31802 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Add extruded bitmap overview.
19:18.20Ralithbrlcad: hey, you're still around!
19:18.34Ralithso I was told you're The Person to come to with brlcaddy questions
19:19.00starseekerdoes rtwizard not have a man page???
19:19.40brlcadhowdy Ralith
19:19.52Ralithso I've got a fairly fundemental question: is BRL-CAD an appropriate tool for designing new parts in?
19:20.00brlcadstarseeker: niet, though it does have a fair bit of in-interface help
19:20.10brlcadit's meant to be a "wizard" after all, walking you through
19:20.23brlcadRalith: it depends for what purpose
19:20.25starseekerWhen he's saying running it from the command line, does that mean starting it from the command line then?
19:20.33brlcadyes
19:21.21Ralithbrlcad: I'm not sure how to answer that question. What I had in mind was for use as source data (which would then be converted into toolpaths) for a rapid prototyper.
19:21.41brlcadRalith: conceptual design of parts is not a strong point, you tend to need a wide range of feature-based editing operations and ability to perform unknown free-form edits
19:22.03brlcadif it's a part that already exists, and you're just modeling it -- sure
19:22.26brlcadeven if it's something you have drawings for already, sure
19:22.52brlcadif you have absolutely nothing, though, and you're trying to design the worlds latest and greatest new toaster, not good for concept design
19:23.01Ralithit seems like that would be the case for most serious cases; at least, when I'm designing something I usually have it all worked out on paper before I even touch a computer.
19:23.15brlcadthen you should be golden
19:23.19Ralithawesome.
19:24.18Ralithalso, on a semi-related note, I don't suppose you're aware of any freely available tools that might be adapted to create toolpaths for a fused deposition modelling rapid prototyping system?
19:24.49Ralithit seems like the sort of problem that should have been solved a long time ago, but is obscure enough not to have been.
19:26.36brlcadRalith: here's an example of such a modeling example where someone had drafted up the dimensions and angles for an extrator part to a pistol/gun -- it was modeled up in a matter of minutes to specification
19:27.27brlcadthe only free tool that comes to mind is one justin worked on a for a while, gcam
19:27.30brlcadhttp://gcam.js.cx/
19:27.48brlcaddumps out g-code
19:28.14starseekerbrlcad:  I'm not triggering it, even at 2048x2048.  Is there something special I need to be sure I do?
19:28.36brlcadstarseeker: it'll happen right when you run the app, try starting with a .g perhaps
19:28.41brlcadrtwizard path/to/file.g
19:28.46starseekerdid
19:28.51starseekerhmm...
19:29.13brlcadhm, then maybe try chaning your screen res or try making other displays the primary (under display preferences)
19:29.59brlcadit's certainly not been fixed, so it must just depend on some other factor(s)
19:30.40brlcadRalith: oh, oops -- the example link, heh .. http://brlcad.org/gallery/s/screenshots/extractor.png.html
19:31.28starseekerAny chance it's 10.5 specific?
19:32.29Ralithbrlcad: that sounds very encouraging. I hope the friendly GUI in progress will be similarily efficient; while I'm personally quite happy with steep learning curves, I'm hoping BRL-CAD might be adopted by a community which, on the whole, is not.
19:32.59starseekerhmm - changing resolution doesn't do it, nor does opening on another monitor
19:38.51starseekertries to find out what "screen distance" means in Tk
19:45.19starseekerbrlcad:  When you wiped out rtwizard on large displays, was it an identical error message?  If I'm not mistaken, the complaint is that itk is passing tk a value that is not a valid distance in pixels
19:46.17RalithDoes mged (and, I suppose, the BRL-CAD file format) have a way to instantiate a single object such that changes to any instance are applied to all instances?
19:48.58prasad_is that shaded view in an interactive ogl context?
19:49.12prasad_or is that the ray traced img
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20:38.38starseekerRalith:  In a sense - if you create a primitive and then use that primitive in multiple combinations, changes to the original primitive will manifest in the combinations
20:41.49Ralithstarseeker: that's cool and related, but I was wondering more if you can define one primitive or set of combined primitives, then define several instances of it which all share the same data, so that a change to one applies to all.
20:41.58Ralithperhaps I misunderstand something?
20:42.33Raliththe PDF on good modelling technique implies that brl-cad can do this; that is, it doesn't say how to (that I saw), but it does say that use of such a feature is a good way to do certain things.
20:43.59starseekerWell, not for primitives as such - what you want (I think) is to create one combination (comb1.c) with one or more primitives/combinations "inside" it
20:44.08starseekerthen copy comb1.c to comb2.c
20:44.17starseekercp comb1.c comb2.c, IIRC
20:44.33starseekerif you do a tree on comb1.c and comb2.c, you will notice they have the same contents
20:45.32starseekerso if you move a primitive (notice there is a difference between moving a primitive and moving the instance of the primitive inside comb1.c - see the OED tutoral for a discussion of this)
20:45.48starseekerlet's get more concrete
20:45.57starseekermake sph1.s sph
20:46.07starseekercomb comb1.c u sph1.s
20:46.13starseekercp comb1.c comb2.c
20:47.37starseekertree comb1.c comb2.c
20:47.53starseekerYou should see that both comb1.c and comb2.c have sph1.s in them.
20:48.35starseekerNow, type B sph1.s
20:48.53starseekerthen do the following:
20:48.58starseekersed sph1.s
20:49.05starseekertra 0 0 -100
20:49.26starseekerbetter make that -500
20:49.41starseekerthen type accept
20:50.18starseekerIf you do B comb1.c and comb2.c, you should see no display change.  This is because both comb1.c and comb2.c picked up the change to sph1.s we just made
20:50.28starseekerer B comb1.c comb2.c
20:50.32starseekerno and
20:51.08starseekerNow, B comb1.c
20:51.38starseekerno scratch that - let's leave comb2.c up
20:52.03starseekerNow use the oed command to work at the combination level: oed / comb1.c/sph1.s
20:52.29starseekertra 0 0 500
20:52.31starseekeraccept
20:52.42starseekeryou should see two spheres now
20:53.03starseekerbecause you operated at the combination level and not the primitive level, the translation was NOT shared between comb1.c and comb2.c
20:53.20starseekerthat make any sense?
20:54.01starseekerRalith:  ping
20:55.00Ralithstarseeker: I follow; this is exactly what I was hoping for. Thanks!
20:56.04starseekerIf you now want comb1 and comb2 to each have their own primitives with the new location information, that's what xpush is all about
20:57.00starseekerHave you read the oed tutorial?
20:59.19Ralithnot yet, no.
20:59.41RalithI'm just getting started with all this stuff, while simultaneously trying to work out if brl-cad is entirely appropriate. So far it looks perfect.
20:59.43starseekerIt should be at least related to this
21:01.04starseekerhttp://brlcad.org/w/images/3/36/Object_Editing_-_the_oed_Command.pdf
21:05.06Ralithstarseeker: my installation seems to be missing an oed binary.
21:05.16Ralithis it a function of mged?
21:06.16starseekeryes, it's an mged command
21:06.31Ralithkk
21:06.44Raliththanks!
21:23.11brlcadstarseeker: it wasn't identical values, but the same error iirc
21:23.24starseekersent a response asking for more info
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21:50.38RalithI have to say, I'm *very* impressed with the thoroughness of the documentation.
21:51.03Ralithis the source material for the pdfs available, so that it might be converted into e.g. a webpage?
21:58.59RalithAlso, where would I find documentation about the structure of database files?
22:04.36Raliththe Users group presentations wiki page seems to have docs for v5, but isn't that completely outdated?
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23:46.03andrecastelo___andrecastelo: get out!!
23:47.35andrecastelo___thank you
23:48.06andrecastelohey brlcad, have you seen ``Erik around?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080712

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080712

00:11.49yukonbobRalith: re: source -- yes. It's in DocBook format, suitable for html if you like.
00:12.06yukonbobgrab the distro from svn and checkout /doc
00:12.16yukonbobs/checkout/look in/
00:12.20yukonbob~svn
00:12.20ibotSubversion (aka SVN) is version control software that aims to be a better CVS than CVS. See http://subversion.tigris.org/.
00:12.55yukonbob~distribution
00:12.55ibotdistribution is probably a collection of goodies built around a kernel, also a whole lot of infrastructure and people.
00:13.00yukonbobgah
00:13.19pacman87~cadsvn
00:13.20ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
00:13.39yukonbobya, what he said.
00:13.43yukonbob:P
00:13.48yukonbobpacman87: hi :)
00:13.53pacman87yukonbob: howdy
00:14.02yukonbobhappy friday
00:14.25CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31803 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc9/libged/libged.vcproj: Added files to libged.vcproj.
00:17.49Ralithyukonbob: cool, tanks. Guess you wouldn't know where to find technical docs on the file format?
00:22.45yukonbobwell, there's the source, for one -- otherwise, I don't think I've personally come across a technical paper describing it, no...
00:22.58pacman87g2asc?
00:25.58Ralithwhat about it?
00:25.59Ralithalso, brb
00:26.16Ralithyukonbob: so long as the relevant code's well commented that's not too bad.
00:36.24brlcadRalith: no, v5 is the current .g file format revision
00:36.36brlcadthe database format is versioned separately from the rest of brl-cad
00:37.01brlcadv4 and v5 are all that you'd ever encounter
00:37.26brlcadit's been v5 since about release 5.0 (just coincidence they match)
00:37.41brlcadandrecastelo: he's on vacation, gets back tomorrow
00:38.34brlcadRalith: and docs for the .g format are on the website, under documentation iirc
00:38.46brlcadbest reference are the headers and sources, though
00:39.00brlcadthere are a few minor items out of sync
01:22.32RalithAh, I thought the versioning thing might be the case.
01:30.18andrecastelobrlcad: hm ok ok :D
01:30.36andrecasteloI was kind of worried since the mid term evaluations end monday
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02:00.48brlcadstarseeker: other huge payoff I forgot to mention, decoupling from X11 on Mac -- having a "BRL-CAD Shell" and MGED that work identical and natively on Mac and Windows
02:01.15brlcadandrecastelo: no worries on your part, the admins back the mentors up if needed
02:01.41Raliththat reminds me
02:02.06Ralithwhy does brl-cad have its own command window thing instead of just opening the shell in the terminal it was launched from?
02:02.30pacman87Ralith: that's classic mode
02:02.33pacman87mged -c
02:02.52Ralithoh, cool.
02:03.42brlcadyou can run both simultaneously too
02:03.57brlcadmged -c, select nu or X, then run "gui"
02:04.50brlcadanother fun way, mged -c, select nu or X, then run "attach X" for as many window views as you want
02:07.31Ralithfun!
02:09.08Ralithhow hard would it be to get the command equivalent of arbitrary GUI actions automatically?
02:15.28brlcaddepends which gui actions, what actions they're taking
02:15.48brlcadsome of the tcl logic is actually processed in tcl for the tcl/tk interface
02:15.54brlcadmost of it isn't though
02:16.21Ralithwas imagining that it might be educational to have that sort of thing dumped to stdout or somewhere every time an action was performed
02:16.26brlcadfor editing, you can get most of the options on the faceplate with the 'press' command
02:16.40brlcadthe geometry browser does exactly that
02:17.03brlcadit'll output every command that corresponds to what it's showing
02:17.24brlcadthe main menu actions, though, are a hybrid mix
02:17.30Ralithneat
02:17.35Ralithkk
02:17.57brlcad"press help" to get a list of built-in actions press supports
02:18.56brlcadif you "sed some_primitive" .. it goes into edit mode, with the faceplate gui enabled, you get a menu in the graphics context.  you can run: press "Menu Option" to press most of the edit operations and run the "p" command or mouse edit from there
02:19.46Ralithsounds useful
02:19.50Ralithespecially if I ever have to script something
02:25.22brlcadyep
02:25.51brlcadthe mged quick reference card is a good starting point for learning what commands are available, and their categorization
02:25.56brlcad(tis on the website)
02:26.38brlcad~botmail for mafm: http://www.ogre3d.org/docs/api/html/classOgre_1_1ManualObject.html .. looks like what we'd need for rendering wireframes/points manually
02:27.50RalithHm. In following the tutorials in the introduction to mged, it's apparent that the raytracer makes visible objects which are arguably hidden, such as the intersection between a two objects rendered along with the difference between two objects taken in both directions.
02:27.54RalithIs this intentional?
02:31.11brlcadhm?
02:32.37brlcadwhat section/page?
02:32.51Ralithwhen you create a rcc, then a sph with a centerpoint on the center of the top of the rcc and a radius equal to that of the rcc, then render sph + rcc (an inverted dome) and sph - rcc (an upright dome) and rcc - sph (a cylinder with an inverted dome cutout) you can see a sliver of the sph + rcc.
02:32.58Ralithsec
02:33.17brlcador screenshot
02:33.17Ralithpdf page 57 == real page 45
02:33.28Ralithsaid sliver is visible both in the image in the pdf and in the actual rendering
02:38.30brlcadah! I see what you're getting at
02:39.27brlcadthey're not hidden, for that particular intersection it just numerically happens to work out that there is overlap on the tangency (which naturally extends all the way to the surface)
02:40.12Ralithtangency?
02:40.46brlcadwhere the cynlinder meets the sphere, it's perfectly tangent to the sphere's surface
02:41.21brlcadso there is a thin sliver of material there where they both exist on the exterior
02:41.34Ralithisn't that infinitely thin, though?
02:41.40Ralithand therefore invisible?
02:41.51Ralithor does the raytracer make approximations necessary for performance reasons?
02:42.37brlcadsure, that sliver's thickness numerically approaches being infinitely thin with inifinite precision arithmetic
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02:43.15brlcadbut yes, performing infininte precision or even fixed precision is two-to-three orders of magnitude slower than floating point
02:43.16Ralithahh.
02:43.36Ralithso it's proportional to the actual way the math is being performed.
02:43.37Ralithneat!
02:43.50Raliththanks for the in-depth answer
02:44.23brlcadand for the sake of being a *solid* modeling engine and a solid model ray-tracer, you want all sements and objects have some real non-infinite thickness when sampled for analytic purposes
02:44.34RalithI had no idea that that was the sort of place floating point imprecision became visible, but I guess if it's reasonable anywhere it's places like that.
02:45.16Ralithyeah, I thought it might actually be intentional for those reasons, but sacrificing accuracy because of that alone seemed strange.
02:45.39brlcadoh yeah, floating point precision can wreak absolute hell if it's not managed consistently and robust -- our librt library goes through extensive hoops to validate and do its best to stabilize the numerics
02:57.29Raliththe primitive selection menu appears to be broken in the latest release.
02:57.44Ralithwhen I click an item, the console gives this error:
02:57.45Ralithdb_lookup(-n) failed: -n does not exist
02:57.45Ralithbgerror failed to handle background error.
02:57.45RalithOriginal error:
02:57.45RalithError in bgerror: window name "_secErrorDialog" already exists in parent
03:25.29Ralithbrlcad: any ideas?
04:20.53RalithI can't work out how to do this on the command line, so it's blocking my use of brl-cad just as I was learning enough to do cool things :/
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18:47.46Ralithanybody about?
18:49.24RalithI'm getting progress-halting errors when progressing through the goblet tutorial
18:52.06RalithSpecifically, when I try to use the GUI primitive selection tool, I get the following errors (one is printed each time I click on a primitive in the list): http://codepad.org/YHA1WcK4
19:08.21Ralithah, *there's* the command line version. The gui bug is still annoying, though.
19:15.46Ralithalso, occasionally the command window opens at a very small size.
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20:32.57``ErikO.o
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20:57.18brlcadRalith: howdy
20:58.53brlcadyeah, that's a known bug that happened in the latest release, you can either revert to a previous binary or ..
20:59.03brlcadfollow the suggestion I mention here: http://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=5088783
21:16.04Ralithcool, thank
21:16.04Raliths
21:44.42brlcaddives into obscene quantities of sushi he picked up on the way home
21:52.21``Erikheh
21:52.26``Erikthat tofi place?
22:27.04Ralithmm, sushi
22:45.49brlcadyeah, pretty decent
22:46.06brlcadhuge thick pieces of sashimi
22:46.48RalithI need to get more good sushi
22:46.56Ralithstandard store stuff sucks
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080713

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080713

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11:33.11GTrax??
11:36.11GTraxAh well - it's Sunday. Maybe not too many are indoors :)
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12:33.41homovulgarisbrlcad: just read the irc logs :P "just a gsoc student" ;)
12:40.40homovulgarislibged breaking the build on gcc
12:43.04homovulgarisged_private.h some static - nostatic trouble with ged_persp_mat function
12:43.23homovulgarisand Sean, did u see the boost_base doubt i had asked ?
12:45.08homovulgarisone more build doubt, I am including certain C headers in solver_test.cpp , it seems i have to manually specify -I../other/tcl/generic to (CPPFLAGS) for the tcl.h location
12:45.25homovulgariswhats the right method rather than this blind include ?
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14:48.56``Erikum, that may be out of sync with the, uh, actual tcl being used. There should be something like $(TCL_CPPFLAGS) in your CFLAGS or CPPFLAGS in Makefile.am
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15:00.51homovulgarisTCL_CPPFLAGS is there in AM_CPPFLAGS but maybe i should add it to the individual binary as well ( in this case solver_test_CPPFLAGS ) .. hmm
15:02.59homovulgarisErik, have u seen the bu_list example in bu.h . shouldn't  there be a bu_free(my_entry) bu_free(new_entry) etc ? or does freeing the main list using bu_free free all the allocated memory ?
15:06.33``Erikremove your .o file, try making it again, and look at the build line?
15:07.00``Erikuhmmmm, I'd have to dig into that :/
15:08.04``Eriklook at line ~510 of bu.h
15:08.18``Erikdoes that help?
15:11.14starseeker_forgot how ungodly long it takes to build VTK...
15:14.24homovulgarisErik, adding TCL_CPPFLAGS to the binary_CPPFLAGS worked :) i dont like tcl
15:16.08``Erik:D
15:16.41``Eriktcl has some good and bad aspects to it... personally, i'd favor embedding lithp or thcheme, perhaps ruby or python these days
15:22.00homovulgarislots of projects happening in python these days.. :) i still like C and C++ mostly :)
15:22.15homovulgaristhere is something allergic about java
15:25.58``Erikonce java finishes going open source, it may be semi-acceptable
15:26.40``Erikpython and ruby seem to be the big flashy new ones, though
15:27.01homovulgarisbbut over the past 5 or 6 years there has been so much code base in java.. I mean lots of application software being written in it..
15:27.04``Erikseems like python is a favorite of the linux world and ruby is a favorite of the bsd world heh
15:27.21homovulgarisruby rox :)
15:27.33homovulgarisand i am from the linux world :P
15:27.37``Erikyeah, businesses like it, but it's a royal pain to install on, say, fbsd.... not wroth the hassle
15:27.44``Erikworth
15:27.52``Erikdue to licensing issues
15:27.56``Erik(java, that is)
15:28.37homovulgariseven in sectors like bioinformatics.. i mean gene analysis etc. is done mostly using perl but so much of their visulization and other code is in Java ..
15:29.00homovulgarisat least in academia and science they should stick to open source completely as a policy decision
15:30.05``Erikschools here in the US used to push c++, and moved to java as I was leaving (mostly due to marketting, I believe)
15:30.14``Erika lot of the c++ was msvc and windows based, though
15:30.52``Erikthe notion of teaching scheme, or using a fbsd.. a lot of the wuss students thought it was stupid and irrelevant (they were looking for a vocational "programming" approach, not computer science)
15:31.34``Erikand schools feel pressure to put out what the industry wants, and the industry feels pressured to move towards what the schools are pushing out, so suns JZOMFGJAVA! blitz campaigning was... highly effective :)
15:31.39homovulgarisIn india the universities push c++, but lots of training institutes , polytechnics and so on pushing java, since it fetches jobs :)
15:31.55homovulgarishuge outsourcing industry in India providing technology support in Java i guess :P
15:32.36``Erikyeah... *glare* :D
15:32.57homovulgarisat that time i guess they pushed the PORTABILITY thing so much .. and i guess in the end it is not that portable anyways :) bsd for instance
15:33.43``Erikno, java is not portable at all, it runs binaries made for the java ABI, the "portable" aspect is that there are emulators for that machine available for a few OS/arch platforms
15:34.11``Erikand even those tend to be fractured (even suns reference versions), so the popular snipe is "write once, debug everywhere"
15:34.26homovulgarisi always find the VM idea a roundabout approach to getting things done.. :P
15:35.13homovulgarisSun has an ambassador in our university , trying to get students to use solaris more :)
15:50.58CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31804 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/vutil.c: static mismatch
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16:28.13Axman6homovulgaris: there's a small group at ours who put on the occasional talk. i get free solaris DVD's, so i'm happy
16:40.30CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31805 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ell/ell.c: commenting out code obsolete due to pc_pc_set modification
16:41.09CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31806 10/brlcad/trunk/include/pc.h: Macros for pc_pc_set initialization, push, and free
16:43.01CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31807 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: modification of pc_pc_set : using bu_list in pc_param and pc_constrnt structures
16:45.50homovulgarisAxman6: ;) Yeah pretty much the same deal here.. ocassional talks, demonstrations etc.. :)
16:50.03CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31808 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcParser.h: addition of pcVariable and pcConstraint grammar structs and Parser class definition
16:55.56CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31809 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (Makefile.am solver_test.cpp): Testing pc_pc_set modifications and Parser::parse()
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17:30.45jonoredHello. I've a question: is there something in BRL-CAD that would be the equivalent of a macro in Lisp? What I mean is, is there some way of, rather than programmatically generating a shape by building an external program, writing the result to a database file, loading it in, etc. and redoing that process if something changes, of just embedding a (small) script into a model, and having the information that script is run with kept in the
17:31.39jonoredSo, for instance, I could write a macro that generates an involute gear, and would be able change the number of teeth on a gear by just modifying its definition?
17:32.42jonoredI know that there are some features like that, but they seem like they lose information such that either the model is no longer the preferred form for editing of the design, or you have to redo work every time a definition changes.
17:33.06archivistshape and body of a gear is not as constant as tooth shape
17:34.24archivistand low number gears have differently shaped teeth
17:34.59jonoredI'm mostly saying a gear as an example.
17:36.41jonoredAlthough I'd be surprised if it weren't possible to encode the variations over a useful range - what I want would be more than a simple pattern.
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17:54.07jonored_...and the router goes away and I don't notice. did I miss replies?
17:54.42archivistno
17:55.51jonored_...okay. Does wanting something like that make sense, at least (even if it'd be challenging to do for that example)?
17:56.31archivistit does (i do it in SolodWorks)
17:57.24archivistparametric parts (driven by an axcel table)
17:57.29archivistexcel
17:58.15jonored_Okay. The other two questions associated with that are then whether it's there in BRL-CAD, and whether it'd be a reasonable addition (for me to work on, I mean.)
18:03.22homovulgarisparametric parts :) well once libpc works out well we shouldnt need solidworks
18:03.38homovulgarisbut it is still at baby steps
18:03.51archivistwaiting to jump ship :))
18:04.47jonored_libpc?
18:05.01homovulgarisparametrics and constraints library..
18:05.22jonored_facepalms.
18:05.47jonored_Not in the tarball for users yet?
18:05.51archivisthomovulgaris, will it have rotations on axis eg gearing
18:06.26homovulgarisjonored_: it is in the svn. but far from the actual requirements of parametric parts.
18:06.54homovulgarisarchivist: what exactly would rotations on an axis involve ? positioning dependent on an axis ?
18:07.37archivistI rotate gear a and all related gears(and assemlies) rotate
18:07.48homovulgarisfirst phase of constraints would be implementations such as is_tangent or is_perpendicular and so on..
18:08.23homovulgariswell i think the rotation of interconnected gears could be specified as a set of constraints
18:08.37jonored_I'll check it out and take a look anyways; perhaps I can find a way to be helpful.
18:08.51archivistits really nice to put a mouse pointer on a gear push it and the mechanism moves as it should
18:09.18homovulgarisarchivist: almost like physics simulation ;)
18:09.24archivistyesum
18:09.26homovulgarisand yep in the end that is pretty much the idea
18:10.24homovulgarisrotation of gears is basically a sort of relation between a controlling rotation of one gear and change in the orientation of the rest according to change in the orientation of the control gear right.
18:10.45homovulgarisIt just needs to be parametrized in terms of teeth number and so on.
18:11.16archivistyes except some reversal and if one is fixed then the housing moves
18:11.48archivistbut all should work out as you get the idea
18:12.33homovulgarisjonored_: right now i have just started writing the parser for parsing constraint expressions.. and by constraints i mean stuff like "radius<3" A "tangent to" B and so on "position of sph.centre is on the cube" and so on
18:12.43archivistmy last job here was a sun and planet gear assembly
18:13.52homovulgarisarchivist: hmm.. in terms of libpc , the question really would be how do we extract those relationships, i mean i cannot expect the user to specify mathematical relationship between orientation ( rotation angles)
18:14.37homovulgarisI will have to derive them using some simple point/teeth contact constraint between the gear parts
18:15.03jonored_I seem to remember doing almost that kind of specification with Pro-E, just with selecting specific sorts of relationships.
18:15.32archivistthat depend how the user is prompted, I add a gear mate betweent two gears ans specify the numbers and direction if the program guesses incorrectly
18:16.00homovulgarisand jonored_ the gear teeth number change, well theoretically , that sort of thing should be possible using libpc and sketch system
18:16.36archivistthe mate is on the axis not the teeth in solidworks
18:16.44homovulgarisbasically teeth angle radius etc. being interrelated
18:16.53homovulgarishmm..
18:17.11archivistcould be pulleys and belts
18:17.31archivistor chain wheels
18:17.51homovulgarisyeah get the idea, oh.. so u set relationships between axes,
18:17.59homovulgarisspecify rotation ratio
18:18.07archivistyes
18:18.29homovulgariswell that could be implemented .. no need for comlex derivations from teeth contact blah blah :)
18:18.30jonored_*nod*. Although I'd still like a way for things like at least the invocation part of things like the wall generator/plant generator/tire generator to be kept in the model file.
18:19.27archivistcontact type is also useful for special types of mechanical motion
18:19.53homovulgariscurrently and as per plan, libpc will be storing the constraints in the .g file only.. u would be able to invoke it using "yet to be implemented" constraint editing commands..
18:20.06homovulgariswell in this case parameter editing commands.. pretty much the same..
18:21.01jonored_Is there a programming language embedded?
18:21.07homovulgariscontact type would be a bit tough, computationally i mean , if you are dealing with two ranges of points..
18:21.35homovulgarisjonored_: programming language ? in libpc ?
18:21.55homovulgarisif u mean a method of expressing relations, i am implementing a grammar using boost::spirit
18:22.33jonored_Would I be able to specify an arbitrary computable shape (provided that it is definable with the primitives that BRL-CAD has) from a set of paramaters?
18:24.09homovulgariswith primitives that BRL-CAD has and representation of how the parameters are related to primitives and each other yes..
18:25.01jonored_...Then I do believe that there is a programming language there in some form or another. Cool :)
18:26.42homovulgarisbut ur idea of adding scripts to the objects is nice..
18:27.10homovulgarismaybe brlcad (Sean) would have more to say about this :)
18:28.22archivistwith a part on screen I select properties and select one of my preset configurations and the gear redraws to the new shape and no of teeth
18:32.00homovulgarisimplementation-wise it would be an addition to the property object i guess , or if they already have something like construct_from_parameters just a call to it ?
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18:32.34homovulgariss/property object/object property :P
18:33.19jonored_It's essentially the same thing - just an imperative language to the declarative one you're writing.
18:33.54homovulgarisjonored_: the present database system does not have any method of including code, it only has mostly geometric and a few non-geometric object types
18:38.17jonored_i'd be surprised if there'd be much difference between adding constraints and adding imperative code, though.
18:48.36homovulgarishmm.. i am still unable to visualize the workflow (implementation wise) for the imperative case
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18:52.39homovulgarisRalith: I checked out reprap.. awesome stuff .. hoping to make my rapid prototyper soon.. maybe september :)
18:52.44jonored_For defining macros it basically dumps the user straight to the assumption of being a script programmer; I don't know any way of getting as much power as you get that way without that. For the user of a script, it'd probably look a bit like using a primitive - tell it that the definition is by this macro, and that here are the parameters to the macro, and there's a shape there. I'd want to have it so that the macro can take geometry a
18:54.22homovulgarisyeah scripting support is provided in most applications right.. like catvba for catia , rhinoscript and so on.. ;) i worked on catvba for around 6 months last year
18:54.28homovulgarisi am not sure but probably we already have a tcl interface..
18:54.47homovulgarisdunno what all features it supports
18:57.04homovulgarisjonored_: and these macros would be stored as a separate file ?
18:57.46homovulgarislike in catia for example , it is stored as a separate .catvba file
18:58.49jonored_There are reasons to do both; on the one hand, if you send someone a model, you want it to be possible to edit the definitions of stuff in the model, on the other hand, you want it to be easy to get them from a library, because more people would be using them than writing them.
19:00.56jonored_The main thing (to me) is that they'd get run when their inputs are changed, without needing the user to invoke them explicitly and redo work in the model.
19:02.27brlcadtunes in
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19:03.02homovulgarishmm.. so ideally they should support both insertion into file as well as independent existence.. and indeed without generated geometry life would be tough in any cad application :)
19:03.11homovulgarisbrlcad is the man :)
19:03.13brlcadreads backlog
19:03.36poolioerrr
19:03.40SlickT10asdf
19:03.50pooliobrlcad: Could you help me think through some basic dumb geometry math when  you get a chance?
19:04.31poolioTrying to think of the best way to compute a rectangle that encloses the face given the points and the plane equation
19:07.34jonored_Fills the same sort of role as the parameterization, I think, just as explicit steps rather than implicit constraints. The differences are mostly to do with speed of the code (because the constraint version needs to run a solver - which might be better or worse than what a person might write in terms of getting it done), and expressiveness - some things are easier to think of as constraints, some as steps.
19:09.35homovulgarishmm.. true.. I am planning on spending quite some time optimizing the solver once i finish the basic framework that is.. and expressing step wise generation of geometry would be  a bit twisted in terms of constraints..
19:09.37brlcadhowdy jonored_
19:10.28jonored_hullo
19:10.35brlcadlibpc will ultimately be central to any long-term implementation of fully parametric geometry, but it's also worth noting that a fair bit of that is already possible too
19:11.05homovulgarisbut would the macro interface look much different from using mk_* () ? like mk_sph mk_ell and so on.. basically macros could add a layer on top of them to do some additional calculation to generate their arguments  from the parameters
19:11.17brlcadvia libwdb, you can write procedural database generators (in C) that are, of course, hard-coded but entirely parametric from an input perspective
19:12.01brlcadthis has also been done in Tcl directly in mged before, where there were tcl objects defined for a given .g such that the modeler could store the routine in the .g and invoke it as needed to create geometry
19:12.37brlcadwhat you're suggesting is also very much closely related to the last primitives idea at http://brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html
19:13.10brlcadwhere it becomes a full-fledged new primitive with inboard or outboard script storage that gets evaluated at run-time (per constraints or whatever)
19:14.11brlcadpoolio: possibly in a bit :)
19:14.20Ralithhomovulgaris: cool, me too
19:15.02brlcadRalith: how goes the tutorializing?
19:15.21Ralithbrlcad: great; I'm onto #15 today
19:16.13Ralithlibpc is that SoC project?
19:16.30pooliobrlcad: ping me when you've got time :)
19:17.05jonored_brlcad: That does sound like /exactly/ what I'm talking about. The generators in C are what I was aware of, but inconvenient - especially to a lisp programmer.
19:17.34Ralithjonored_: I bet you could wrap the C api in lisp
19:18.47jonored_Ralith: It occurs to me that that statement has two possible meanings - I was meaning that it's inconvenient to someone who is accustomed to extending their language's compiler as he sees fit while writing his program, not as a wish to write generators in Lisp.
19:18.53brlcadRalith: yeah, one of our four projects: http://brlcad.org/d/node/23
19:19.58Ralithjonored_: I'm not quite sure I follow. Doesn't lisp, like most languages, have some mechanism for accessing C libraries, which can then be wrapped to make the interface more clean and lispy?
19:20.33brlcadjonored_: now one side effect of mged's built-in scriptability is that you can use pretty much ANY language to write "mged scripts" .. doesn't get you parameterized geometry nor a high-level api nor state management, but it does let you do just about anything you can do in mged from a given arbitrary language -- there's an example on the website .. (digs)
19:21.01jonored_Ralith: Oh, easily - but I was meaning that I wanted an idea from lisp in brl-cad, not that I wanted to use lisp for brl-cad.
19:21.11Ralithoh, ok
19:21.13brlcadhere's an example of mged scripted with about 3 different I/O approaches using simple posix shell scripting:  http://brlcad.org/wiki/SGI_Cube
19:21.25jonored_because it's essentially /the/ idea that makes lisp really powerful.
19:21.39brlcadgenerates some geometry and renders it
19:22.19brlcadonce our new libged library is complete (which is at the heart of ALL mged commands), the plan is to swigify the whole thing so that you can access a consistent command layer from any language
19:22.27homovulgarisRalith: yep libpc is a SoC project.. :)
19:22.28brlcad(directly, instead of indirectly)
19:22.43Ralithhomovulgaris: yeah, brlcad provided the link
19:23.04Ralith(you must have a database of handy descriptive links on hand or something)
19:23.06homovulgarisjust saw :)
19:27.15brlcadRalith: not really
19:27.36brlcadjust know where the stuff is on the website
19:27.46brlcadthere's a heck of a lot more ;)
19:27.53Ralithyeah, I've been browsing
19:31.12brlcadand a ton of stuff not even uploaded yet
19:44.12homovulgarisbrlcad: :) my boost_base doubt :D
19:51.20brlcadhomovulgaris: que?
19:51.35brlcadoh, a question you had?
19:56.55brlcadhomovulgaris: hmm.. you totally should not have needed to wrap the includes in extern "C" .. if there are decls in our headers that need wrapping, they should get fixed instead of adding a work-around
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21:34.39andrecastelohey guys
21:35.32Ralithhullo
21:36.26brlcadhowdy andrecastelo
21:36.42andrecastelohowdy brlcad
21:36.49andrecastelohi ``Erik
21:47.00brlcadstarseeker_: iqtest.dk is the site I was talking about, fun stuff ;)
22:05.29CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31810 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/ (9 files): regression test typo, refer to the variable instead of some invalid var expansion so that hopefully mged will find tcl/tk if we're regression testing
22:20.10CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31811 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/dsp/dsp.c: ignore dsp's with no data source a little more gracefully instead of bombing
22:21.08CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31812 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c: Fixed point lists and path lists allocation and deallocation. Each point hit is now stored in a path list. This will be useful for path tracing.
22:23.45homovulgarisbrlcad: checked without extern "C" .. works fine :)
22:28.07homovulgarisand the boost_base doubt..
22:28.11homovulgaris11:08.17homovulgarisbtw, i wanted to use the ax_boost_base.m4 macro i added using something like this addition to the configure.ac http://rafb.net/p/v3tpKU36.html
22:28.11homovulgaris11:08.42homovulgarisbut it gives some trouble while configuring in tcl saying LDFLAGS was not set during the last run
22:28.11homovulgaris11:09.07homovulgarisis there something additional i have to do other than adding the macro to m4 dir and the code to configure.ac
22:28.22alex_jonibrlcad: that was quite fun (the iqtest.dk site..)
22:28.47homovulgarisi think i will have to modify the macro probably ?
22:29.38poolioalex_joni: I just took it too :P how'd you do?
22:30.06alex_joni133.. but I didn't have nerve to really answer the last couple of questions
22:30.34alex_jonistill had about 20 minutes left :) .. but it's 1am here
22:30.40alex_joniso I'm off to bed ;)
22:31.55alex_jonipoolio: u?
22:32.28poolioalex_joni: 126, I got frustrated and didnt do the last few as well. I didn't see the pattern and went "arghhhhhhh"
22:33.25alex_jonihaha :)
22:33.28alex_jonimaybe one day :P
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23:14.55homovulgaris4.44 am :) time to sleep
23:15.27homovulgariswill write a good grammar tomorrow
23:33.21brlcadhomovulgaris: there's nothing additional you have to do other than blowing away the automake/autoconf caches assuming there are no problems with the m4 itself
23:38.46brlcadandrecastelo: something to keep in mind, at some point you'll want to optimize it so that there are no malloc/free (e.g. bu_calloc, BU_GETSTRUCT, etc) calls occurring during ray-trace (prep is fine, viewstart/viewend is fine)
23:39.31brlcadandrecastelo: that will generally result in a substantial performance hit .. and given you're writing a path-tracer, you'll want to keep an eye on performance very early on
23:40.25brlcadsince you'll ultimately be shooting billions of rays (or more) per image
23:45.41andrecastelohmm, i understand.. but how can I do that?? something like how scanline is treated?
23:46.23andrecasteloallocate a big array in the beginning.. ??
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080714

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080714

00:17.25brlcadyeah, can use a pre-allocated memory pool, reuse allocations no longer needed, etc
00:17.25brlcadcan allow allocations, but do them in huge chunks at a time to minimize the system calls to just a handful (e.g. 64MB at a time as needed)
00:20.41CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31813 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/dsp/dsp.c: clean up the warning messages
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01:14.48CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31814 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (11 files): include cleanup -- common.h should come before _all_ system headers in order to ensure portability (and type wrapping and macro behavior) when compiling
01:49.35CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31815 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (8 files): (log message trimmed)
01:49.37CIA-60BRL-CAD: style and formatting are only issues when they are completely disregarded..
01:49.39CIA-60BRL-CAD: please be more careful/consistent with the style guide. much of these changes
01:49.41CIA-60BRL-CAD: aren't even self-consistent within a single function. use space after commas
01:49.43CIA-60BRL-CAD: and intrinsic keywords (if, while, for) but not after functions or within
01:49.45CIA-60BRL-CAD: parens; prefer spaces around operators (especially for streams). whitespace and
01:49.51CIA-60BRL-CAD: indents also seem to be horribly inconsistent (run sh/ws.sh and sh/indent.sh if
01:51.18CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31816 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/dsp/dsp.c: align the followup info
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03:06.34starseeker_figures either his computer has gotten slower or software has gotten harder to compile since the last time he rebuilt everything
03:06.41starseeker_grr
03:14.10yukonbobhello, cadheads
03:14.49yukonbobdisables his covert daemons running on starseeker's puter.
03:17.12starseeker_yukonbob:  heh - in reality, I can't fault my machine
03:17.33starseeker_the world rebuild totaled over 1000 packages, including things like VTK, Paraview, KDE, and Blender
03:18.40Ralithblender isn't a big build
03:19.00RalithI'd be more worried about firefox
03:19.09jonoredstarseeker_: gentoo?
03:19.16starseeker_Yep, gentoo
03:19.38starseeker_hadn't done a kernel upgrade in a couple years, was finally noticing potential issues
03:19.55starseeker_so did the big jump - world upgrade
03:20.02jonoredSame. PII toughbook - full rebuilds take a something like a week or two... :)
03:20.09starseeker_ow
03:20.18starseeker_is better off than that, at least...
03:20.29starseeker_I wimped out on openoffice though
03:20.46starseeker_that's a full day just to build it, assuming it works
03:21.02starseeker_considering I just need it for the odd office doc anyway...
03:21.09jonoredIck. Glad I avoid office-like software... wvHtml for me :)
03:21.38poolioDebian ftw ;)
03:21.43starseeker_heh.  Once in a while you can't avoid the .doc format - some businesses speak only .doc
03:22.16starseeker_never quit got the hand of doing development on Debian - I'm sure there was some "always install the friggin dev packages" option but I didn't find it
03:22.45jonoredprobably will need to use it at some point after school, but for the moment I'm just reading them - so converting them out of .doc works reasonably well.
03:22.52pooliostarseeker_: hmm, I've never had an issue other than the broken libtool stuff
03:22.57starseeker_as a result, compiling anything was always a game of "ok, which dev package do I still need..."
03:23.10starseeker_poolio:  It's been years, so I would have to revisit it
03:23.41starseeker_Gentoo has always been good even for weird scientific stuff and lisp implementations
03:23.48pooliostarseeker_: heh, there's still a little bit of that if you're compiling stuff, but it's not that difficult...and the time it takes to sort out the dependencies is far less than the time it would take for gentoo to compile them
03:24.43starseeker_poolio:  Oh, sure :-).  But at least on gentoo it's automated - I can let the build go overnight.  So far I've not met a Debian install that's smart enough to go find the dev packages
03:24.47jonoredpolio: I would suggest that that does depend on machine, and on whether you're doing development on a package you've already installed once.
03:25.02starseeker_is always compiling weird stuff...
03:26.13starseeker_It's driving me nuts.  I want to recompile BRL-CAD and start a proc-db, but I don't dare until I'm sure my system is done putting itself back together
03:26.48starseeker_It'll be interesting to see if the iges-g crash still behaves the same...
03:27.48starseeker_still wants to try a Fourth -> Lisp bootstrap someday, unless it turns out going straight to Lisp is easier/just as hard...
03:28.45starseeker_alright, sleep
03:29.07jonored...Fourth->Lisp? a simple Scheme wouldn't take that much to build up and would be quite sufficient for building any lisp you'd want...
03:29.27jonoredg'night :)
03:29.57Ralithstarseeker_: proc-db?
03:30.02Ralithjonored: also, toughbook? awesome!
03:30.37jonoredRalith: CF-27, with some modifications and a strap to carry it nestled on my back with.
03:30.52RalithI want a toughbook.
03:30.59RalithSadly, I want up to date hardware more.
03:31.04Ralith(also, some money left over)
03:31.42jonored*Nod*. There's the occasional newish ones that are not terribly much - my girlfriend got a CF-19 for $1000 off of craigslist...
03:32.20Ralithwow.
03:32.27Ralithdidn't think stuff worth anything ever showed up there
03:33.09jonoredwhich is just a bit absurd. A fully rugged tablet PC with a modern (albeit crazy-low-power) processor is kinda impressive.
03:35.02Ralithyeah
03:35.09yukonbobstarseeker_: how do you like paraview?
03:35.44Ralithwhat *is* paraview
03:38.01yukonbobdata visualization -- used in FEM, medical, others...
03:38.28yukonbobcmake is the build system that spawned from that project...
03:41.22Ralithoo
03:41.38starseeker_proc-db - a tool in BRL-CAD for generating models
03:41.51starseeker_brlcad's fence routine is a good example
03:42.04jonoredRalith: So you know, we ran into two similar systems in our area <=$1100. It would seem that it's surprisingly effective to get the beasties - Perhaps it's time for me to upgrade.
03:42.13starseeker_yukonbob:  Can't say I've used paraview much, actually
03:42.18starseeker_not yet anyway
03:42.50starseeker_jonored:  It's an interesting question.  Forth has the property of being easy (relatively speaking) to bootstrap on cool hardware
03:43.04starseeker_jonored:  I don't know how scheme would do in such circumstances
03:43.25starseeker_er cold hardware - nothing but machine/assembly language available
03:44.33starseeker_For the sake of verifiability all the way through the software stack, being able to do a true "cold", from the metal bootstrap is actually important.
03:45.01starseeker_Even though no one does that anymore, and probably haven't for 40 years except as a hobby...
03:45.28starseeker_has a knack for nutty ideas...
03:46.11jonoredstarseeker_: Scheme has impressively few primitives - something like seven or eight fundamental ones and you really want to implement some of the other stuff like arithmetic. I've looked at setting up one for a microcontroller.. much of the complexity comes from the extensible compiler.
03:47.16jonoredbut then, some of it doesn't mesh well with some hardware - like the not having a standard stack thing.
03:47.26starseeker_Hmm.  How much machine/assembly code would you estimate it would take?
03:49.09jonoredThat I'm not sure of; wanting to do it was associated with my major qualifying project, and it didn't seem a good idea to pursue concurrant with trying to make a UAV fly.
03:49.43starseeker_ah
03:49.46starseeker_point
04:33.13Ralithjonored: I'd ask you to grab me one if I had the money lying around.
04:34.44Ralithalso, what kind of UAV?
05:22.19jonoredOne quadrotor design (four fixed-blades in a square), the other a more normal-looking miniature helicopter. Never got very far - Prof said I wasn't allowed to do the controls side, and the aerospace people who were the rest of the team took so long to do it I couldn't get the programming done before the project ended.
05:22.59jonored(er, fixed-pitch blades.)
05:37.48Raliththat's a shame.
05:38.26Ralithbut, uh, what's abnormal about a four-bladed heli?
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05:43.05jonoredRather than having one motor and controlling attitude and thrust primarily by varying the angle of the blades, it has four motors with solid props on them out on booms and controls itself by varying the speed at which each prop is spinning.
05:45.20Ralithooh
05:45.21Ralithneat
05:45.34Ralithsounds mechanically simpler, too
05:46.18Ralithnow I want to build one :/
05:47.18jonoredAnd control-wise more of a headache. To go sideways you have to turn up one side and turn the other down, and then reverse that torque before the thing flips over, and do the reverse to stop it going sideways...
05:47.44jonoredbut much of that is actually common to both.
05:49.32Ralithit's easier to handle things in software than in hardware
05:50.33Ralithand I'd imagine you could keep yourself mostly safe by setting up a software governor that'd ensure no matter what any other bits told it to do, it always remained mostly upright
05:50.53Ralithof course, that would preculde really cool maneuvers, but those are generally beyond the scope of a UAV anyway.
05:51.01Ralithhow were you planning on powering it?
05:51.21jonoredSometimes. Sometimes not. It's a lot easier to do precise positioning with a set of linear axes than with a roomba. That's basically what the control scheme we were aiming for did - use nested saturation functions to keep what it's doing sane.
05:52.32Ralithhm, I bet you could simplify the control issue by physically angling all of the rotors so the pointed inwards something under 45 degrees from vertical
05:52.51Raliththat way it'd strafe in the direction of any prop putting displacing less air
05:53.00Raliths/putting//
05:53.43Ralithyou'd sacrifice some energy for that conveniences, of course
05:54.00jonoredPower was from a fairly gigantic lithium ion polymer battery. I want to say it was rated for something like 40A, with a 4 amp-hour capacity... and four little brushless motors that spin the props such that you're convinced they'd take a finger off if you let them. Scary to have the thing spin up.
05:54.25Raliththat must have been pretty powerful if it could lift a heavy battery like that
05:54.27jonoredeleven volts coming off the battery.
05:54.29RalithI *really* want one of these
05:54.42Ralithhow long could it stay in the air?
05:54.46jonoredlipoly batteries are crazy light, though.
05:54.49Ralithalso, altitude ceiling?
05:55.36jonoredDon't know - project ended too soon after they got me their control stuff, and awkwardness with not having sufficient computing power to run the control scheme they wanted on the microcontroller.
05:56.03Ralithsurely swapping in a more powerful controller wasn't that big a deal
05:56.11RalithI mean, a project like that would need a big budget already
05:56.43jonoredWe went over. it's something like $300 per person for those projects.
05:56.56Ralithhow large a team?
05:57.30jonoredSix and six, I think. I was sorta in the middle and the only one who could write code.
05:57.44Raliththat must've sucked
05:57.47jonored(Two projects.)
05:58.56RalithI have to build myself one of these things; it sounds remarkably affordable.
05:59.22Ralithwas this a univ course project, something professional, or what?
05:59.42jonoredYeah, rather did. Didn't help arguing with the aerospace engineers that any accelerometers we could get weren't going to magically differentiate between gravity and acceleration...
06:00.07jonoredUniversity, ours has something like a thesis for undergraduates.
06:01.31RalithI wish there was some entity out there that would happily give out a few thousand dollars to people just for the sake of building cool stuff
06:02.55RalithI'd think with an aircraft like that you'd be able to do some neat hacks
06:03.32Ralithit's going to be mostly upright most of the time, so if you assume relatively still air, you could mount a laser rangefinder aimed straight down
06:03.46Ralithit'd get easily confused at higher altitudes, though
06:04.18jonoredThere are people doing that sort of thing. It's surprisingly awkward getting one to know where it is if you can't just stick a GPS module on it. A sonar module also is an option; we were trying for an indoor device, so that seemed reasonable.
06:05.12Ralithsound-based rangefinding would be iffy
06:05.19Ralithwho knows what sort of surface it would end up above
06:05.40jonoredFor us, floor, mostly. But other things yes.
06:06.12Ralithyeah, but floor can be all sorts of things
06:06.18Ralithfrom concrete to shag carpet
06:06.25Ralithwhich can't be good for sonar.
06:07.04jonoredTrue.
06:07.05Ralithif you want to get more creative here's an idea
06:07.14Raliththis one only works outside, but eh
06:07.17Ralithtake a laser rangefinder
06:07.37Ralithaim it horizontally at a spinning 45 degree mirror with an encoder so you know where the mirror's pointed
06:07.52Raliththen estimate the location of the horizons on both side based on when the range given goes to infinity
06:08.04Raliththis should give you pretty accurate orientation information in anything but heavy fog
06:09.56jonoredWould be reasonable, yes. Outside is, surprisingly enough, easier to deal with than inside. Among other things, you can get a location and velocity in a fixed coordinate frame to within a few meters with a small, easy device...
06:10.05Ralithheheh
06:10.24Ralithinside you could do a similar thing, except aim the assembly downwards
06:10.42Ralithit wouldn't be so useful for orientation, admittedly
06:11.05Ralithbut it'd be pretty awesome in terms of other tasks you'd have to do to have a realtime map of surroundings at the current altitude
06:11.22Ralithof course, it'd crash into mirrors all the time.
06:11.24jonoredMuch nicer than trying to integrate from accelerometers and gyroscopes for all of it and get it to be stable for the few minutes to test the control system..
06:12.52RalithI'm not sure what problems you'd have with accelerometers
06:13.23Ralithzero it while it's sitting on a table, then just have everything try to keep them at zero
06:13.48Ralithput one at the extreme of each prop boom and you've got lots of info
06:14.23RalithI can see the problem with keeping track of what upright is, though :/
06:14.34jonoredAccumulation of errors. Double integration mixed with noise is not a happy prospect. Could certianly try to just keep them at zero - on the other hand, for a quadrotor, what you get back is that you are accelerating upwards at 9.8 m/s^2 if you're thrusting as you would to counter gravity.
06:15.10Ralithtreat that as zero :P
06:15.20jonoredWhat you get putting them out on the ends of the boom is that you've built a gyro out of accelerometers.
06:15.36Raliththis is useful and probably cheaper than a real gyro.
06:15.57Ralithbut yeah, with error accumulation you'd lose track of which way's up
06:15.59Ralithhm.
06:16.12Ralithwell, wait
06:16.19Raliththis thing isn't stable in anything but vertical
06:16.21jonoredThe problem with treating that as zero is that accelerating straight towards the ground at 18.6 m/s^2 looks awful similar...
06:16.31Ralithso couldn't you examine the specifics of its current instability and correct?
06:16.56RalithI'd hope your accelerometers can tell the difference between negative and positive :P
06:17.15Ralithuhh
06:17.16jonoredit is positive. The accelerometer is oriented the same direction as the props.
06:17.20Ralithand just hope you don't get flipped upside down.
06:17.27Ralithcuz if that happens you're pretty much fucked.
06:17.58RalithI don't see that being even remotely recoverable when you've got so little room to maneuver, even if you're omniescient
06:18.01jonoredYou can get the information that needs from gyros/equivalent devices. That's even just a single integration.
06:18.55jonoredthe problem is that if you think about it, the raw accelerometers should always be reading zero in the 'horizontal' axes in the body frame, and 9.8 in the 'vertical' axis.
06:19.24RalithI'm still not sure where the problem lies
06:19.30Ralithyou could even give a brute force approach, if properly tweaked
06:20.00jonoredit's not impossible to fly something like this on that kind of system.
06:20.14Ralithwhen you're tilting one way, crank up the motor on that side; wouldn't it stabilize at vertical?
06:20.40jonoredYes. the problem is telling you're tilting one way.
06:21.05Ralithit would be rotationally accelerating, wouldn't it?
06:21.09jonoredYou can get the derivative of the thing you want to control from a gyro, but it's not easily done to get the actual number you care about.
06:21.17Ralithah.
06:21.46jonoredJust rotating is detectable. the problem then is that you care about the angle. That said, you can get good enough sensors that this works for a good while.
06:21.59jonoredbut I need sleep...
06:22.04Ralithalright
06:22.07Ralithgood discussion
06:22.15jonoredg'night
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07:02.28kylechey, anyone out there?
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08:10.24CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31817 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: added some files to be consistent with Makefile.am
08:17.11CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31818 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c: fixed crash because of a corrupted function stack
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08:46.54homovulgarisbrlcad:  hmm.. was planning on style cleanup later.. not coding complete .. true
08:49.55homovulgarisshould write self consistent code.
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10:27.37mafmhi
10:27.50homovulgarishowdy mafm :)
10:30.23mafmsigh
10:30.27mafmtoo much work
10:30.34mafmbut that's a common illness, I guess :)
10:40.58brlcadsleep less ;)
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10:58.32mafmI can't
10:58.45mafmI can sleep less for a few days or so, but then I have to recover
10:59.50mafmhmm, ibot_ is actively ignoring me :|
11:00.45archivistthe saturday lie in, zzzz, /me didnt get up till about 3pm this last weekend
11:01.24mafmoh, now I read it -- brlcad: I'm already using Ogre::ManualObject to build and render the sample shapes
11:02.49homovulgaris:D sleeping less is always a good solution ;)
11:03.11homovulgarisplenty of time to sleep later :)
11:05.07mafmthat's only fun when you haven't had serious sleeping problems in the past :P
11:06.56homovulgaris:) i had some trouble with 30 hour sleep per week ;)
11:07.25homovulgarisi mean not trouble per se :P class bunks
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11:17.29mafmI mean health problems :)
11:17.32mafmhi andrecastelo
11:17.44andrecastelohi mafm
11:18.47homovulgarishey castelo ;) nice castle
11:36.10brlcadbreifly documents, http://brlcad.org/wiki/Sketch
11:40.54andrecastelothanks homovulgaris :D
11:41.05andrecastelo(i didn't model it though)
12:02.02mafmcastelo's castle... you have to patent it
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13:52.12yukonbobbrowses sketch docs, suggests a pictures are worth thousands of words...
13:52.22yukonbobhello, cadheads
13:56.25starseekertests whether the X updated that busted tk on gentoo also busts BRL-CAD's internal tk
13:56.37``ErikO.o
13:56.52``Erikpets fbsd :)
13:57.37starseekerIt looks like it's a change at the Xorg level
13:57.55starseekerreads bug report...
13:58.16starseekerPossibly a hardcoded Tk assumption is being violated by new xproto behavior...
13:58.53starseekerThey seem to think ALL tk versions are impacted
13:58.59starseekerouch
13:59.08starseekerhere's hoping BRL-CAD doesn't trigger the behavior
14:05.26starseekerSo far so good...
14:14.49starseekercrap crap crap crap
14:15.48yukonbobheads to work...
14:15.56yukonbobstarseeker: good luck
14:16.24yukonbob(see also #tcl, if you think it might help... lots of Tcl Core Team hangs out there...)
14:17.25starseekerOh, I know why it's failing (or at least someone does)
14:17.52starseekerAlright, here's the failure and the links to info - to discuss with brlcad:  http://paste.bzflag.bz/m2bc3454c
14:18.25starseekerfigures apply the patch to our tree and move on with life, but it doesn't look like the tk devs have their final solution as yet...
14:18.46starseekerheads out...
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15:10.15brlcadheh, "This has been a valid assumption (from 1991 up until very recently)"
15:10.49brlcadpats Xorg on the back for breathing some new life into X11
15:14.07brlcadstarseeker: yeah, probably should just apply john's patch for now
15:14.22brlcader, joe i mean
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15:31.03brlcadgets peckish
15:35.11``ErikO.o
15:35.44prasad_peck peck
15:37.35``Erikquit being a pecker, prasad ;D
15:41.44``Erikwonders if brlcad is in the office today
15:52.22brlcadnope
15:52.43brlcadironically have too much work to do
15:54.11``Erikheh, yet anther fine framework, I hear
15:54.37brlcadstarts after tomorrow
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16:39.37brlcadhugs CIA-60
16:39.37CIA-60hugs brlcad
16:42.05Axman6oh, i can see i came back whole you were having a moment...
16:42.08Axman6while*
16:59.23brlcadyeah, it's apparently back-logged..
16:59.38brlcadjust now springing back to life
17:02.07``ErikO.o
17:04.44starseekerso a peckish brlcad is either hungry, easily annoyed, or both?
17:10.50brlcadannoyingly hungry
17:11.02starseekerheh :-)
17:11.38``Erik<-- pats his belly full of expired chef boy r dee ravioli
17:12.24``ErikI know you're jealous, you can admit it
17:12.25brlcadponders pizza
17:12.31brlcadheh
17:12.44brlcadI think I have a can of that crap .. not going there today
17:12.58starseekeraround starseeker pizza seldom lasts long enough to ponder
17:13.11brlcadi get a craving for it like two times a year, it's there "just in case"
17:13.22poolioI just had way too much free pizza for lunch :D
17:13.31``Erikremembers to taze starseeker when the pizza's arrive for any pizza party
17:14.21starseekermakes note to drain the charge on ``Erik's tazer
17:16.45starseekeralthough given ``Erik's approach to toys, he's probably got a mini-nuclear reactor in there...
17:16.51brlcadwow, just a couple weeks since I last used that on-line ordering dude's new site and he's already got a dozen new restaurants
17:17.00starseekercool
17:19.42``Eriknah
17:20.01``Erikjust enough capacitors to flash vaporize a 1" diameter steel rod :D
17:22.30starseeker``Erik: Ah, of course - the gigaFarad capacitor :-).  After all, what good are the large scale SI unit prefixes if you don't make use of them? :-)
17:23.03starseekerI guess it would probably be gigafarad, actually...
17:23.55starseekerremembers someone once comparing measuring capacitance in Farads to measuring egos in Stallmans - uselessly large units...
17:24.02``Erikmine are gibifarads
17:24.20``ErikO.o
17:24.36starseekerdigital farads?
17:25.00``Erikonly fools count in decimal, you have to count in binary to be cool
17:25.07``Erikand I'm the coolest!  or something
17:25.21starseekerwell, you're certainly the somethingist
17:26.25``Eriklithp people are... thpecial.
17:26.47CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31819 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/elapsed.sh:
17:26.48starseekerThey're metapeople ;-)
17:26.51CIA-60BRL-CAD: add support for RFC 2822 dates in addition to UNIX dates, this should fix a
17:26.59CIA-60BRL-CAD: couple of timing issues that have been noticed. also make the argument
17:27.03CIA-60BRL-CAD: processing more robust including detection of the date format. add support for
17:27.12CIA-60BRL-CAD: env variable overrides and --debug|DEBUG in addition to --seconds|ONLY_SECONDS
17:27.16CIA-60BRL-CAD: support. woot.
17:27.51``Erikapparently all 3 public branches of ucw are dead(ish), the various developers have their own private repos, and the 'proper' way to get it at the moment is to download something called paragent and extract it from that
17:29.00``Erikneat, huh? :D
17:29.28starseekerrestrains an impulse to knock ucw dev's heads together and read them the git user maual
17:29.33starseekermanual even
17:29.41``Erikthey like darcs
17:30.05andrecastelohey guys
17:30.10starseekerhowdy
17:30.18CIA-60BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31820 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Commands.h: Changed initialization sequence
17:30.18``Erikthough I have to admit, I did get a minor urge to use git... while I was flying
17:30.20andrecastelohey starseeker
17:30.28andrecastelohi ``Erik  :D
17:30.48``Erikthe 5 hours of airport/aircraft non-access made git almost look attractive... but *shrug* then the 5 hours was up and I could resume not being a git :D
17:30.54``Erikafternoon, andre
17:31.01starseekergit is good for situations like that where everyone has a branch - it's precisely what tends to happen with the Linux kernel
17:31.11``Eriknice screenies, started the bidirectional stuff yet?
17:31.40andrecasteloi was trying to do much detailed things
17:31.41``Erikyes, I did a little linux kernel hacking in the 90's, a bunch of gits sounds about right :D
17:31.43starseekerpokes CIA-60
17:31.58andrecastelobrlcad told me to keep it simple, try to make it work as a simple raytracer
17:32.12``Erikfbsd is preparing to move to svn O.o
17:32.22andrecasteloit saves the hit points now, will be useful when path tracing
17:32.29``Erik<-- thought he suggested that to andre long ago... :D
17:33.05andrecastelomy bad, then :S
17:33.06starseekerWell, for the record - the tk patch is added.  It didn't break the Mac, but I'll have to wait til I get back home to confirm it fixed the new Xorg issue
17:33.11``ErikI believe twingy rendered the castle using rise/adrt at one time, d'no if I have the images from that anymore
17:33.19*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=timothy@71.170.63.120)
17:33.23``Erikssh -X ?
17:33.58starseekerhas never set up remote access to his box - too much trouble between modem, ISP, and securing box
17:35.02starseekerhopes one day to be in a place where he can get a direct fiber hookup...
17:35.09``Eriksweden?
17:35.24starseekerheh
17:35.49starseekerdo I detect a slight mistrust of the USA's ability to roll out broadband?
17:36.30``Erikum, ability, or desire?
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17:37.00starseekerdesire I never doubt, unless it's the MPAA/RIAA
17:37.21``Erikthe companies don't particularly want to do it, they're cr^Happing all over the intartoobs, and most people don't particularly care as long as their por^Wmail gets to them fast enough
17:37.39``Eriksupposedly a large number of people use dialup and don't want to switch to "broadband"
17:38.04``Erikand we tend to be a pretty spread out country compared to some :)
17:38.05starseekerhas run into a few and always has to resist the urge to scream...
17:38.15starseekertrue
17:38.47starseeker(which is why we need faster trains, doggone it - what will we do when flying gets too expensive?)
17:39.52``Erikmy round trip flight was about $200 after the fees and taxes, train woulda been more expensive and time consuming :/ a sleeper ride probably woulda been $2k and taken 2-3 days
17:40.19prasad_dc to chicago is 17 hrs :o
17:40.28starseeker<snort> - all that means is Amtrak should be beet read
17:40.30prasad_for the same price as a plane ticket
17:40.30starseekerred
17:40.37``Erikand the notion of 2-3 days in cattle is unpleasant
17:40.37prasad_which is 2 hrs
17:40.59starseekerright.  We need bullet maglev trains for 1/4 the cost of air travel
17:41.17starseekerwhat's wrong with learning from the rest of the world?
17:41.19``Erikrode a train from seattle to oakland in '85, and one from some mudhole to osan (south korea) around '87
17:41.35``Erikother than subways, haven't ridden any others :/
17:42.23starseekerroad Amtrack two or three times - one time he got sick, one time he was stuck near the smoking lounge and one time he was 17 hours late
17:43.00``Erikbut we run into the issue of things being spread out so much, combined with the inability to accept darwinism so the tracks must be caged to prevent r-tards from getting pasted... huge cost :D
17:43.01clock_starseeker: sick from dry air?
17:43.22starseekerclock_:  Dunno.  More likely being couped up with other sick people
17:43.35clock_17 hours late lol
17:43.41clock_how long did the journey normally take?
17:43.49starseeker``Erik:  Nah, just build elevated maglev tails
17:44.05``Erikagain; expensive :)
17:44.09starseekerclock_:  Little over a day or two
17:44.20clock_here in switzerland there is a fence around
17:44.23starseeker``Erik:  Up front, yes, but it's a fixed cost
17:44.27clock_i climbed it once and wont do it anymore
17:44.40starseekerairplane fuel looks to be open ended
17:44.45``Erikbuilding a 50 mile city loop might be fine, building a single 5000 mile run...
17:44.55clock_I saw like for half kilometer crossed carefully and suddenly a silent doubledecker train going like 120km/h was whistling at me
17:45.13clock_my brother said he saw it there was huge clearance no danger but i wont do it anyway
17:45.14starseekerhey, they probably said the same thing about a continuous railroad across the US
17:45.30clock_its not czech republic where the trains go 60km/h you hear them few kilometers and people normally cross the tracks safely
17:45.57starseekeragrees with ``Erik that any opportunity for stupidity in the US will be taken advantage of by someone
17:46.00``Erikyeah, but we can't pay chinese people 2 cents a week and let them die without concern anymore... O.o it was an achievement with some insanely horrible prices attached
17:46.36starseeker<snort> we've learned a few things technologically since then
17:47.16``ErikI was thinking more about the social abuses of dehumanizing a large work force
17:47.31starseekeras opposed to (say) IT support call centers?
17:48.11starseekerI'm guessing proper maglev installation isn't going to be about dehumanizing people so much as it is making the install foolproof
17:48.21``Erik*shrug*
17:48.27starseekerthe labor requirements are different
17:48.27clock_I think a wire fence like in CH suffices
17:48.29``ErikI don't see it happening in the near future
17:48.35clock_with ocassional sign do not cross life danger
17:48.40starseekerI agree, it won't be near term
17:48.47``Erikrednecks won't go for tax hikes when they never leave their trailer park
17:48.49``Erik:D
17:49.12starseekerhas seen Japan's train system, and is still green with envy
17:49.28starseekeryou can get almost anywhere you want to go without a car, between the rail systems and busses
17:49.52``Erikyeah, but remember; japan is a small country with a high population density and a culture that pushes more for common good than personal wealth
17:50.02starseekerSure.
17:50.28``Erik<-- was dumbstruck at the cultural difference at first
17:50.37starseekerBut unless you seriously think our population will stop going up, shouldn't we be planning for the long term here as well?
17:51.02``Erikof course I think we SHOULD
17:51.08starseekerfigures we elect officials to watch out for the common good, after all...
17:51.08``Erik...
17:51.12starseekerheh
17:51.36starseekerkeep voting, I guess...
17:51.37``Erikelected officials tend to only worry about the future to a term length
17:51.52starseekervery true
17:51.52``Erikjust like companies end to only worry out to a quarter away
17:51.56``Eriktend
17:52.05``Erikand most of the US only worries about a paycheck away
17:53.05starseekerthat's natural (frustrating, but natural)
17:54.33``Erikthinks the highway system mostly exists because a large part of the population was in awe at the german system they used first hand, as well as a huge economy rebuilding push by the gov't
17:55.02``Erikif it weren't pimped so well to a choire of an audience, I doubt we'd have it :)
17:55.55``Erikcomputer geeks discussing socioeconomic philosophies, that just ain't right
17:56.00``Erikpokes at computer stuff :D
17:56.23starseekeris back to xml conversion - getting close to the end of volIII
17:56.33starseekerlotta appendices
17:58.25``Erikvestigial organs in our documentation? ohs noes!
17:59.05starseekerwishes the Build Pattern doc qualified...
18:00.39``ErikO.o as in 'builder design pattern'?
18:08.01brlcadloves riding by train, with or without delays
18:08.22brlcadone of the few means of travel where you can actually do something almost the *entire* trip, very productive
18:09.10brlcadpull out the laptop, plug it in, prop up your feet, code code type type all day, get up and go get a beer from the bar, back to coding, enjoy the scenery
18:12.38``Erikgive me a teleportation booth any day
18:15.06``Erikdetaches brlcad's screen and doesn't give it back until he's done coding O.o :D
18:15.26brlcadheh
18:15.46brlcadthis isn't so much coding, it's writing, and it doesn't start until tomorrow
18:16.50``Erikdetaches brlcad's screen and doesn't give it back until bz is migrated :D *duck*
18:17.00``Erik<-- running updates on it yet again
18:21.06``Erikcurses up a storm at yet another lithper thpecialnethth
18:32.14``Erikhey, neat, a tarball with emacs ~ files, a .DS_Store file, a 23 meg core file, ... a mixture of CVS, .svn and _darcs directories...
18:40.17*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
18:40.17*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code! || Release 7.12.4 is posted (source-only release)
18:42.37*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
18:51.09andrecastelofinishing blog report and then off to class
18:57.58``Eriklooks at andres checklist... the +'s are done and -'s are not?
18:58.24*** join/#brlcad CIA-22 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149.simpli.biz)
19:00.12pacman87i think i found a bug in kde
19:00.25pacman87either that, or i'm doing it wrong
19:00.40andrecastelo``Erik: yup
19:00.48brlcadavoids the lewd joke
19:01.14andrecastelobut that is not up to date
19:01.15pacman87every so often, i end up with a whole bunch of kdesktop_lock and kblankscrn.kss processes running when i come back
19:02.40``Erikbut lewd jokes are the best kind!
19:08.40``Erikhum
19:11.49``Erika horrible bug in andres code! it assumes a single worker thread doing lines in order instead of saving scanlines where they belong
19:14.47andrecastelo``Erik: in view_pixel() ?
19:16.32``ErikI didn't look that close, but when I run it on a 4 core machine, I get what looks like a few random grey strips with a lot of black background, but when I give it -P1, it looks ok
19:19.57``Erikhm, and no save image ability
19:20.25``Eriktry um, running it with like -P4 or -P512 or something
19:21.29andrecasteloyeah, the view_pixel() assumes BUFMODE_SCANLINE
19:21.37andrecastelothat'll be changed
19:22.05andrecasteloalso, i temporarily cut the save image ability from it, when i was trying to make it work with a frame buffer
19:22.14``Erikokie, I mostly use 4 and 8 core boxes, so I was wondering what was broken until I tried explicitely giving -P1
19:22.17andrecastelo(plus it created a 128mb file o.O)
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19:37.57*** join/#brlcad PrezKennnedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
19:40.10mafmhave to go home before the night falls: strange creatures roam Lisbon city during the night :P
19:45.42mafmnighty night
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20:05.07andrecastelopokes C
20:05.12andrecastelopokes CIA-22
20:05.50andrecastelo``Erik: updated viewmlt.c, it outputs an image file now
20:06.18andrecasteloi'm still downloading a program to visualize .pix files, though :S
20:12.17``Erikheh, um, there's a program to dump a pix to an fb :) or cnvert fb to png
20:13.29``Erikis nervous about hacking on it lest he modify thing that'll be deleted/replaced O.o
20:18.23andrecasteloi'm off to class now
20:18.27andrecastelocya later
20:18.55``Erikhasta
20:35.12*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
20:41.58*** join/#brlcad CIA-22 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149.simpli.biz)
21:07.38*** join/#brlcad CIA-22 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149.simpli.biz)
21:24.12CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31826 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/ged.h src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c): Reworked things a bit to make it easier to add commands in the GED object.
21:33.24pacman87is there a problem with me adding this to vmath.h?
21:33.24pacman87#define MAX(a, b)( (a) > (b) )?(a):(b)
21:33.24pacman87#define MIN(a, b)( (a) < (b) )?(a):(b)
21:33.35pacman87or is there a better place?
21:33.38*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
22:00.05``Erikhas thought about doing that himself O.o
22:00.30pacman87need to wrap another () around it, though
22:02.13``Erikhrmmm, I forget if anything takes precedence over the ternary
22:02.31pacman87MAX( 5, 3 ) + 1;
22:02.49pacman87won't the +1 be included with :(b) + 1;
22:03.45``Erikah, yeah
22:04.12pacman87the carc_seg struct isn't very friendly
22:04.47``Erik(((a)>(b)?(a):(b))   /* and people think lithp has lotth of parenthethith */
22:04.49``ErikO:-)
22:05.25pacman87(((a)>(b))?(a):(b))
22:05.25pacman87<PROTECTED>
22:05.47``Erikyeh
22:06.04``ErikI just got home, my brain needs a few minutes to acclimate, it's frikkin' 80f in my house :(
22:06.14pacman87nice and toasty
22:06.51``Eriksome day, I'll get my a/c fixed
22:06.53``Erikhonest
22:07.01``Erikor wait until it's cold outside and sell my house *cough* O:-)
22:07.51pacman87my ac broke last summer in austin
22:08.16pacman87twasn't fun
22:11.20``Erikhrmmm, can V_MAX() be twisted to your needs?
22:16.31pacman87i want to compare a and b and store in c
22:16.43pacman87not necessarily store back in a
22:17.22``Erikyeah, I think it's a silly construct, just looking for ways to avoid adding there
22:17.45pacman87which is silly?
22:17.54``Erikand { int c = a; V_MAX(c,b); blah(c); } is ugly
22:18.12``Erikthe store instead of return approach
22:19.17CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31827 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Add build pattern tutorial
22:20.10``Eriksees MAX defined in /usr/include (in a few places)
22:20.23starseekerhugs CIA-22
22:20.24CIA-22hugs starseeker
22:21.00``ErikHEY! keep it family friendly, freaks!
22:21.25starseekerCIA forgave me - I was being ignored for the longest time
22:21.32``Erikc.h php/main/snprintf.h php/Zend/zend.h sys/param.h X11/extensions/xtrapddmi.h
22:21.58``Erik(this is on a mac, btw)
22:22.08pacman87yeah, i probably need a new name
22:22.54``Erik(defun in (x) (asdf-install:install x))
22:23.32starseekerheh - making lisp user friendly, one abbreviation at a time
22:23.42``Erik:D
22:24.37``ErikI'd rather type (in 'thlime) than (asdf-install:install 'thlime) if I'm doing a gazillion of 'em
22:25.31``Erikhuh, how does lithp do variable arity? in thcheme, it's (define (func arg1 ... argn) form)
22:26.04``Erikor, uh, one ., sorry
22:26.07``ErikC macros on the brain
22:26.20``Erik(define (println . args) (for-each display args) (newline)) ; for example
22:26.53starseekerthe #lisp channel is actually good for stuff like that :-)
22:27.05starseekerif the right folks are on
22:27.26``Erikthe personal lithp yoda named cliff is good for that, too, now turn green and start spouting wisdom or I'll whack you with my lispsaber
22:27.34``Erik:D
22:27.48starseekerpulls his brain out of docbook and looks...
22:28.30starseekerwhat's variable arity?
22:28.34``Erikgoogle is being mean to me
22:28.35``Erikvarargs
22:28.52starseekeryou want to define how many arguments you will pass to a command?
22:29.06starseekerer function
22:29.19``ErikI want to define a function that takes a variable number of args
22:29.24``Eriklike format
22:29.51starseekerjust pass it a list?
22:29.57starseekerstuff the args in the list?
22:30.09starseekeris out of shape lisp wise
22:30.36``Erikwell, that's what it boils down to in scheme, but the syntatic sugar is nice
22:30.59``Erik(myfunc 'a 'b 'c) instead of (myfunc '(a b c)) ... :)
22:31.44``Erikis not finding satisfaction via google :(
22:32.06starseekertry #lisp if you can take the heat - they have helped me in the past
22:33.20starseekerdoes this help?  http://gigamonkeys.com/book/functions.html
22:33.40starseekercheck the &optional symbol
22:34.49``Erikah, &rest
22:34.57pacman87decides to take a shotgun approach to carc bounds, instead of using a rifle
22:36.46pacman87... at least for now, anyway
22:45.04CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31828 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Add build_region appendix
22:54.07starseekerwoot!  http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/vol3/book/tutorial_series/volume_III.xhtml
22:56.03starseekerlots of holes to fill in, but progress!
23:00.10brlcadyeah, nifty -- what's different? :)
23:00.51brlcadstarseeker: and what's up with the images.. some are way too big (oversampled), some way too small (super low res)..
23:03.14brlcad``Erik: huh, nervous about hacking on what?  his code is fair game, he probably needs to learn how to correctly resolve conflicts anyways
23:05.26``Erikyeah, but if he's gonna gut&replace, *shrug* i'm trying to be lazy :D
23:05.32``Erikuh, anyone using firefox 3?
23:06.15brlcadpacman87: posix provides fmax(), fmin()
23:06.45brlcadwe use that throughout the code, that's why there's nothing defined already
23:08.47``Erikdowngrades firefox due to inexcusable brokeness :(
23:12.09*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
23:19.48``Erikand now the old one is broken the same way. *sigh*
23:20.15PrezKennedyUE!!
23:24.25``Erikstarts wondering if his pref file hacking is coming back to haunt him
23:34.49Ralith``Erik: I use FF3
23:35.18PrezKennedyI use IE!
23:35.22RalithD:
23:35.25PrezKennedygets struck by lightning
23:37.13``Erikwhen I upgraded from ff2 to ff3, it quit showing tabs and would get stuck on pages, when I downgraded back to ff2, the tabs were still gone :( annoying crap
23:39.26Ralithsounds like mangled prefs
23:39.30Ralithkill your profile
23:41.58``Erikyeah, trying to do that in a way that keeps my bookmarks
23:42.39Ralithcopy the bookmarks over after you have a new profile
23:42.42Ralithshould work fine
23:42.46Raliththey're in they're own file iirc
23:42.48``Eriktried that, they're not sticking
23:42.57``Erikgrepped through the directory to make sure, even
23:43.10Ralithcomplain on their IRC channel
23:44.21RalithI'm curious -- the docs and website use all these really neat looking detailed military vehicles for example pics
23:44.25Ralithare those available anywhere?
23:44.29Ralith(the models, that is)
23:44.47brlcadnope
23:44.51Ralithaw.
23:45.04brlcadthe only one that is available is havoc
23:45.10Ralith?
23:45.12Ralithgot a link?
23:45.19``Erikum, mi28 iirc
23:45.26``Erikthe helicoptor
23:45.41Ralithto the file, I meant
23:45.53``Erikrussian, never fielded, it's in the distribution
23:46.02``Erikas is the US m-35 2.5 ton truck
23:46.15brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/gallery/s/renderings/havoc_rtedge.png.html  installed as havoc.g
23:46.41``Erikwouldn't mind getting the t62 in public release status :)
23:47.00Ralith<3 detailed and accurate military models
23:47.07brlcadi think that one's doable if it's just pressed (at the right time to the right people)
23:47.19Ralithin the distribution?
23:47.22Ralithyou sure?
23:47.25Ralith% find ./ -iname '*.g'
23:47.26Ralith./doc/html/manuals/mged/cup.g
23:47.41``Erikshould be in share/brlcad/7.12.4/db/havoc.g
23:47.59Ralithweird.
23:48.06``Erikhow did you install?
23:48.07Raliththat's not in the source tarball
23:48.10Ralithbut it's in my install
23:48.18``Erikit's in the source as havoc.asc
23:48.21Ralithahh.
23:48.23brlcadin the source dist it's  db/havoc.asc
23:48.30Ralithwhy store it that way?
23:48.33brlcadthat's converted to .g during compilation and installed
23:48.37``Erikwe have an ascii mode format of the .g file and "compile" it to binary
23:48.38Ralithbetter versioning system handling?
23:48.56brlcadyes, human readable
23:49.08``Erikum, v4 db wasn't smart about endian and width, CVS is bitchy about binary files, etc
23:49.14Ralithcool, thanks
23:49.19``Erikhuman readable is nice, but I think a lot of it is historic
23:49.23``Erik*shrug*
23:49.30``Erikwould like asc updated to v5
23:49.33``Erik:)
23:50.05Ralithalso, my GUI's console occasionally opens as a tiny vertical rectangle (you can't even see anything besides the wm decorations)
23:50.15Ralithcan't find a way to reliably reproduce it, but it happens often
23:50.22``Erikasc2g generates v5's I believe, but the info in asc is still v4, I think
23:52.00Ralithwhat's the license on these?
23:54.25brlcadsee COPYING
23:54.52brlcad(bsd)
23:56.43``Erikshould db/ be explicitely called out around line 46 of COPYING?
23:57.33``Erikponders adding comments to asc to hold that info there O.o
23:57.35``Erik:D
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080715

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080715

00:00.56``Erikthat'd probably be a good "jr hacker" task
00:10.22``Erikholy crap, that thing is pigging the corners bad
00:10.28``Erikc55 amg on top gear
00:10.56``Erikheh
00:11.04``Erikit lost a cornering drive to a 'vette
00:12.49``Erikway behind bmw, porsche, lotus, even mitsubishi :D
00:22.16Ralithis it possible to get antialiasing out of the brlcad renderers?
00:23.01brlcadit's performed at a ray-cast level, jittering, so probably not what you'd expect for antialiasing
00:23.19brlcadeven though it is an antialiasing approach and will eliminate aliasing artifaces
00:23.44brlcadusually you'll want to render at 2x-4x and scale down, though, for clean image-space anti-aliasing
00:24.10RalithI guess that's one way to do it.
00:27.57brlcadthe results will usually be better in a super-sampled image space than what you can do in a sub-sampled ray-space
00:29.01brlcadRalith: if you find a way to reproduce the vertical rect, lemme know .. never seen that
00:29.19RalithI'll see what I can do
00:29.24Ralithit's pretty unpredictable, though
00:34.00``Erikmuch more info would be needed for that
00:34.37``Erikrt's antialiasing involves the -h (hypersample) and -J (jitter) flags being used in conjunction, basically shoot a bunch of rays per pixel with random minor mutations and the results averaged
00:35.25``Erik-J3 is both cell and frame jitter, and -h takes the # of rays to fire, I haven't noticed any appreciable difference between ~7 and "more"
00:35.39``Erikthough sometimes I do a lot more to do profiling :)
00:36.07``Erikhasn't really messed with shooting a big one and downscaling
00:36.38Ralith``Erik: -h 5 -J3 gets me a white silhouette
00:37.02``Erikwoops
00:37.03``Erik-H
00:37.33``Erik-h is distance attenuation shtuff
00:37.41``Eriklike, uh, opengl style 'fog'
00:37.47pacman87i think i forgot something:
00:37.47pacman87warning: incompatible implicit declaration of built-in function 'fmin'
00:37.50Ralithhm. slows down things a lot and mostly just fuzzes the edges
00:38.06Ralithare standard antialiasing techniques inapplicable?
00:38.12``Erikpacman: math.h ?
00:38.23pacman87it's there
00:38.27``Erikwhich "standard" antialiasing techniques?
00:39.07``Erikopengl and d3d use a "magic set" approach published in a paper I believe out of nvidia for edge hits
00:41.22Raliththat works.
00:41.31Ralithis it inapplicable?
00:41.49``ErikI imagine not, but it's highly recent compared to the existing approach
00:41.53``Erikfeel free to implement it :D
00:42.00Ralithhehe
00:42.05Ralithif I were a graphics programmer :P
00:42.29``ErikI imagine being a graphics programmer is irrelevant, it'd be a hard coded pattern opposed to a random set of tweaks
00:43.14Ralithyeah, but I don't have enough background to even know where to begin.
00:43.18``Erikwhoever did the paper basically went through a series of possibly layouts until they came across the one that seemed the "best" for the least number of rasterizations
00:43.23Ralithlet alone how to adapt something from opengl to brl-cad.
00:43.59``Erikwell, the paper, iirc, basically boils down to 7 points in a square
00:44.16``Erikso instead of doing N random pertubations to rays, just assume those 7...
00:44.19``Erikor 5 or whatever
00:45.13``Erikfinding the paper with the magic #'s would be the harder aspect, I'd imagine
00:45.30``Erikbut don't listen to me, I've been looking at lisp code, so I've been getting liquored up ;)
00:45.35Ralithheh
00:45.47pacman87testing the balmer peak?
00:45.49Ralithraytracing isn't how opengl/d3d do things at all, though
00:45.52Ralithit's that directly mappable?
00:46.08``Erikno, ogl and d3d are rasterized approaches
00:46.13``Erikbut I think the notion is mappable
00:46.33Ralithisn't even sure how a rasterized renderer differes from a raytracer
00:46.40``ErikI haven't jumped around screaming "developers" over and over, nor have I launched chairs or sworn to "fucking kill" anyone
00:46.41Ralithother than that the latter seems to be very slow.
00:46.46``Erikso, no, not on the ballmer track
00:46.49Ralith``Erik: it's an xkcd reference
00:46.58``Erikohhhh
00:47.02``Erikbalmer, not ballmer
00:47.02``Erikheh
00:47.05pacman87http://xkcd.com/323/
00:47.09``ErikI think I'm beyond the productivity spike
00:47.21``Eriksorry, I'm disadvantaged. :)
00:47.41``Erikonce ralith said xkcd, it clicked... :D
00:47.57``ErikI do like how foxtrot included xkcd in their latest quip
00:48.11pacman87yeah, i saw that
00:48.28``Erikhttp://euler.missouristate.edu/~erik/comics/comic.php   <-- web app he wrote to deal with those damn webcomics
00:48.59``Erikand since I like high resolutions and big fonts, clicking an image zooms it, pheer javascript O.o
01:07.38starseekerbrlcad: difference is that volume three was generated from docbook sources - like the earlier volume II example
01:08.11starseekerbrlcad:  As for the images, I had originally captured them at the highest resolution I could, simply to ensure I preserved the detail present in the originals
01:08.30starseekerIf you're referring to the second tank image, I believe the pixelation there is present in the original
01:09.43starseekerI need to downsize the images anyway for pdf, so thinks will look better - I was simply ensuring that at least the svn history had the full image data
01:12.09brlcadif -j + -H simply averaged the cell results, it would look a hell of a lot better
01:12.44brlcadthat's a viewend() post-processing hook that wouldn't be too hard to code up
01:13.40brlcadstarseeker: the big ones aren't nearly as much of a concern as the under-res ones :)
01:13.51brlcadyou can down-sample, upsampling sucks
01:28.04pacman87primitives/revolve/revolve.c:176: warning: incompatible implicit declaration of built-in function 'fmax'
01:28.29pacman87what am i missing?
01:34.39``Erikperhaps a -lm ?
01:34.58``Erikwell, that error says it's not seeing the prototype in the header, though
01:35.10``Erik"man fmax" and include the correct header O.o
01:35.49pacman87says math.h
01:36.10pacman87is fastf_t considered a float?
01:36.28brlcadnot usually, but could be
01:36.33``Erikum, I think it's usually a double
01:36.47pacman87<PROTECTED>
01:36.47pacman87<PROTECTED>
01:36.47pacman87<PROTECTED>
01:37.09brlcadis that from the manpage or the header?
01:37.15pacman87manpage
01:37.23brlcadsee what your header has
01:37.36brlcadmaybe it's in some #ifdef'd block
01:40.33pacman87my /usr/include/math.h doesnt' have any of them
01:41.18brlcadeh, you didn't just grep I hope? :)
01:41.28brlcadusually it's just a front-end to /usr/include/somethingelse
01:42.03brlcadalso, I presume you're using <math.h> and not "math.h", yes?
01:42.23pacman87when grep failed, i opened it
01:42.30pacman87and it's not linked anywhere
01:42.41pacman87and yes to <math.h>
01:43.15brlcadcan you upload your math.h somewhere?
01:43.20pacman87sure
01:43.49brlcadnot the first time i've seen them missing, but it's certainly been a while..
01:45.18pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/math.h
01:47.30brlcadwhat did you mean by "it's not linked anywhere"?
01:48.12brlcadthat header includes about four or five others that might have fmax, try: grep -r -i fmax /usr/include
01:48.16pacman87(08:42:17 PM) brlcad: usually it's just a front-end to /usr/include/somethingelse
01:48.47brlcadyeah, your math.h is a front end to /usr/include/bits
01:48.53pacman87ah, ok
01:48.56brlcadfor at least many decls
01:50.32brlcadI vaguely recall fighting fmax declarations on other platforms a while back
01:50.51brlcadgave up on nirt apparently, #define FMAX(a,b) ((((double)(a))>((double)(b)))?((double)(a)):((double)(b)))
01:51.00pacman87yeah, i saw that one
01:52.13brlcadif it comes to it, go ahead and add an FMAX and FMIN to vmath.h
01:52.17pacman87/usr/include/bits/mathcalls.h:__MATHCALL (fmax,, (_Mdouble_ __x, _Mdouble_ __y));
01:52.25brlcadthat's it
01:53.40pacman87/usr/include/tgmath.h:#define fmax(Val1, Val2) __TGMATH_BINARY_REAL_ONLY (Val1, Val2, fmax)
01:54.34brlcadso either that __MATHCALL macro requires math.h coming after some other header, or mathcalls.h isn't getting included due to some #if inclusion logic, or similar situation
01:56.14pacman87mathcalls.h is included
01:56.20pacman87no #if wrapper
01:57.34pacman87except #ifndef_MATH_H
01:58.37brlcadhmm.. but it is included before __MATHCALL is defined
01:59.16pacman87__MATHCALL is defined on line 54
01:59.26pacman87#include <bits/mathcalls.h> is line 71
02:00.34brlcadoh, I was looking at mathdef.h
02:01.22brlcadah, it is wrapped
02:01.51brlcadadd this before #include <math.h>  .. #define __USE_MISC 1
02:02.05brlcadmight be SoL
02:02.23brlcadas it's a c99 macro, and it's not providing it unless in c99 mode
02:04.09brlcadso you can either cheat and just declare them yourself, extern double fmax(double, double); or do the FMAX/FMIN thing for now
02:04.39pacman87<PROTECTED>
02:04.47brlcadsince it's c99, configure would need to test for it and conditionally use it or provide it (which would still warrant a FMIN/FMAX)
02:04.57brlcadyeah, it probably unsets it
02:05.34pacman87so add FMAX/FMIN to vmath.h, or somewhere else?
02:05.49brlcaddidn't follow through all the logic, it's going to be one of the extension defines
02:06.03brlcador adding -std=c99 as a cflag, etc
02:06.09brlcadwhich we can't do just yet
02:06.34pacman87well, running the code doesn't blow up anything
02:06.40brlcadwell, we could and it should work, but c89 strict hasn't been 100% tested (we're almost done)
02:07.38brlcadit's still resolved by the -lm symbol or the built-in
02:08.04brlcadno different than not including stdlib for exit(), just calls to exit will still work
02:09.18brlcadactually, add it to common.h -- it's not specific to vector or matrix math
02:09.28brlcadnor specific to libbn
02:11.56pacman87#define FMAX(a, b)(((a)>(b))?(a):(b));
02:11.56pacman87#define FMIN(a, b)(((a)<(b))?(a):(b));
02:12.13pacman87or without the ;
02:12.34pacman87s/or/err,
02:16.39pacman87i'm looking at moving my open sketch detection to sketch from revolve's prep
02:16.52pacman87since i'll need it for revolve's plot() too
02:17.10pacman87so plot() shows the lines needed to close the sketch
02:22.32brlcadwithout the ;
02:22.52pacman87brlcad: yeah, i fixed it
02:24.00brlcadconsider adding a file to src/librt/primitives/here.c since it's shared so there isn't cross-primitive referencing
02:24.35brlcadnot a huge deal, but part of the refactoring cleanup that would be good to work towards for some of the "combo" primitives
02:26.04pacman87was wondering why it should be called 'here.c'
02:26.22pacman87then i realized it was the location
02:28.31brlcadheh
02:37.11``Eriky'know, uh, ... listening to some of the originals that metallica covered in their early years... metallica waren't nothin' special... they kinda sucked, really
02:37.48CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31829 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (revolve/revolve.c sketch/sketch.c): add rt_sketch_bounds() to sketch.c; fix rt_revolve_prep() to use rt_sketch_bounds() in calculating bounding volume
02:38.28CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31830 10/brlcad/trunk/include/common.h: add FMAX() and FMIN()
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02:55.20starseekerbrlcad:  Agreed about the low res image(s), but I'm not sure what we can do about it at this late date :-/
03:07.39brlcadwhere'd they come from?
03:09.20brlcad``Erik: you see the note about the summit?
03:10.05brlcadleslie shared the date, 25th/26th
03:10.15brlcadpretty cool that it's two days this year
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03:12.20brlcadawesome! .. new handbrake works much much better now
03:20.03starseekerbrlcad:  dunno where they came from
03:20.28brlcader, you mean the images in the .doc are that small?
03:20.37starseekeryep
03:20.38brlcadthey wouldn't have printed well at that resolution
03:20.51brlcadhunts for vol III
03:20.54starseekerwell, maybe my extraction routine made a hash of them...
03:25.11Ralithstarseeker: at least a few of them can be regenerated from scratch, can't they?
03:25.44starseekerThe simple ones like diagrams, sure.  The tank raytraces are something else again
03:31.03brlcadyeah, it's dropping it from 300dpi to 100dpi or something on extraction from the looks of it
03:31.10starseekergrr
03:31.24brlcadnot that it'd look any better, just minor aliasing artifacts
03:31.42brlcadjust not suitable for print
03:32.14starseekerhmm.  can they be regenerated at higher res?
03:32.29starseekerthought maybe they were deliberately low res for release
03:33.08brlcadthose probably could or manually extracted from the doc or scripted capture
03:33.58brlcadthe doc compilation would probably run an image 'compile' to generate the right resolution depending on the target
03:36.05starseekeronly if the models are to hand during the doc build...
03:39.10brlcadyeah, most of those could be generated with a simple script
03:39.28brlcadwould make for a nice testing suite too
03:39.37starseekerwhat about the text overlays?
03:39.40brlcadsomething for later maybe
03:39.45brlcadsure, that's doable
03:39.49brlcadthat's just mged plotting
03:39.59brlcadyou can extract the mged overlay now
03:40.50brlcadthey just entered edit mode so it displays the label, then captured a screenshot
03:41.16starseekerare we both looking at the tank raytracings at the beginning of Volume III?
03:41.30brlcadcould just as easily extract that data as ps/plot data and run pl-fb to get the image
03:41.40brlcadno, i'm talking about the wireframes
03:42.08brlcadthe tank images can't be regenerated of course, we don't have the models
03:42.28brlcadwould just keep a high-res copy of the image and it'd downsample as needed
03:42.59brlcader, "could" regenerate it, just not on the fly
03:44.17starseekerAh, ok wireframes
04:16.44poolioI think I thought of the fix to the NMG brep code while watching Hancock :D
04:18.28poolioTime to see if it'll work :)
04:23.09CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31831 10/brlcad/trunk/ (Makefile.am include/conf/Makefile.am): make the reported compilation time reset every time 'make' is invoked so that the numbers are a little more meaningful for users pulling a dist and for partial recompiles.
04:24.09CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31832 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c: minor cleanup in rt_revolve_prep(); remember to save your final changes before comitting
04:55.03CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31833 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/db5.h src/librt/db_match.c):
04:55.03CIA-22BRL-CAD: add reference counting support for revolve primitives since they reference other
04:55.03CIA-22BRL-CAD: objects (sketches), used by tops, xpush, and possibly a couple other mged
04:55.03CIA-22BRL-CAD: commands. requires providing DB5_MINORTYPEs for revolve and a slew of other new
04:55.03CIA-22BRL-CAD: objects that have since been added. stupid to maintain two listings like this.
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06:22.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31834 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/dsp/dsp.c:
06:22.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: fixed a bug detected by the solids regression test where dsp primitives were
06:22.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: failing due to the change made in r31629 that made the converted the dsp's
06:22.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: former rt_parsetab_tclget() (now rt_dsp_get()) routine from
06:22.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: Tcl_DStringAppendElement to bu_vls_printf calls which are not equivalent. The
06:22.58CIA-22BRL-CAD: Tcl_DStringAppendElement() calls automatically pad spaces, so have to manually
06:23.00CIA-22BRL-CAD: pad the bu_vls_printf() call.
06:46.59CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31835 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/parse.c:
06:46.59CIA-22BRL-CAD: and we come full circle. perform a strcat instead of a strcpy so it doesn't
06:46.59CIA-22BRL-CAD: clobber what's already written to log. that said, it's still BUSTED bad. not
06:46.59CIA-22BRL-CAD: only does it only log instead of setting the var, it also still ends up smashed
06:46.59CIA-22BRL-CAD: against the next logged item (see solids.sh regression test for db put dsp.s,
06:47.02CIA-22BRL-CAD: broken)
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06:56.56CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31836 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: d_rossberg's suspicion was spot on, need to unbreak mged get/put commands and structparsing with %S formatters. it's been busted since r31629 and r31609 in particular from a couple weeks ago.
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08:34.00CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31837 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/parse.c: reactivated the %S format (string copy to struct bu_vls) in bu_structparse_argv
08:38.24CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31838 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): changed the sketch_name in rt_revolve_internal to struct bu_vls to handle strings correctly
08:50.56CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31839 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/typein.c: changed the sketch_name type in rt_revolve_internal
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10:33.27mafmhiya
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11:32.54mafmbrlcad: trackball and shift-grips should be active at the same time? (be the same "camera mode")
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13:46.56brlcadmafm: no, those are two separate manners of interaction
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13:48.49pacman87morning, all
13:50.03``Eriksalut
13:53.14brlcadhola
14:00.06pooliomornin'
14:07.06d_rossbergmoin moin pacman87
14:07.07mafmgoody, so two different camera modes :D
14:07.31mafminventing a new way of development... refartoring before even commiting :P
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14:07.41mafmhi pacman87
14:09.21mafmrefart lol... refact*oring
14:12.08brlcadhaha
14:15.15mafmnow I can't complain if somebody tells me that my code is shit :|
14:17.04``Erikbecause you re-farted it?
14:23.58mafmyep
14:24.06mafmis like when something talks by burping :)
14:24.28``Eriklifts a cheek and lets some code out :D
14:27.06mafmlol
14:27.18mafmwould avoid to go to any brl-cad hackaton
14:27.53``Erikyeah, people would be confused at all the candles in the room O.o
14:31.22CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31840 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch.c: implemented rt_sketch_degree()
14:35.21mafmcandles?
14:35.44``Eriksure, some code might be flammable :D and that'd be cool
14:36.27mafmlol
14:37.07mafmBRL CAD's Flaming Circus
14:38.01``Erikthe trick is getting everyone to code in sync to cut off 'liberty bell'
14:41.59mafm:D
14:48.23d_rossbergpacman87: you should compute the hit_point member of struct hit in rt_revolve_norm as your comment on this function says (maybe other members are missing too)
14:51.36pacman87d_rossberg: VJOIN1( hitp->hit_point, rp->r_pt, hitp->hit_dist, rp->r_dir );
14:52.04pacman87does adding that line to norm() fix it?
14:52.44clock_And then get all the primitives sing "This is the CAD we live in!"
14:52.57pacman87...?
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14:53.27d_rossbergpacman87: something like this, yes
14:54.51d_rossbergit looks like the rt command doesn't need this, but my application does
14:55.41pacman87i'm allocating memory using bu_calloc in prep(), and storing it in revolve_specific - when should it be free'd?
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14:56.46pacman87just free the revolve_specific pointer before assigning the new data?
14:59.58brlcadburst, g_lint, lgt, nirt, and a few others need the hit_point too
15:02.15d_rossbergrt_revolve_free ?
15:02.37pacman87does that always get called after prep?
15:05.51d_rossbergas far as i can see: yes
15:34.09CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31841 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Commands.h GeometryConversion.cxx GeometryConversion.h): Fixing typo in name -- missing 'h'
15:46.49mafmdoes anybody know if there is a document like this for trackball mode?
15:47.08mafmhttp://brlcad.org/w/images/8/8c/Shift_Grips_Quick_Reference_Guide.pdf
15:53.08brlcadmafm: download AoI or Blender, their defaults are trackball-style
15:55.55brlcadtrackball is merely a "rotate viewpoint" default
15:57.38brlcadAoI -> http://www.artofillusion.org/downloads
15:59.02brlcadsimilar to control-click with shift-grips
15:59.31mafmbut I mean also with keys
16:00.13mafmwould be arrow keys only?
16:00.27brlcad*confused*
16:01.08brlcadyour question doesn't make any sense to me
16:01.16brlcadi also mean with keys too
16:01.53brlcadshift-grips .. is centered around key-bindings, and even without mouse arrow-keys still modify the view (they rotate iirc)
16:03.31brlcadin the end, all we're talking about is 1) key bindings and 2) view modifications ... sets of 1+2 => an interaction style
16:04.12brlcadshift-grips is one interaction style, the one used by mged with all the binding-to-view modifications spelled out in that guide (the key-only bindings are listed, but they're trivial)
16:06.06brlcadthink of the view modifications as a 'tool' you might select (ala photoshop/gimp): e.g., zoom in/out, rotate freely, translate freely, rotate vertical, rotate horizontal, translate left/right, translate up/down, etc
16:06.21brlcadthose map to input events
16:10.50mafmbleh
16:10.57mafmI'm dragging into all this :S
16:55.05mafmyay!
16:55.10mafmgot something working at last :)
17:10.33*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-86-73.dclient.hispeed.ch)
17:12.27esben__Hi, I'm using  version 7.12.5 and when I try to raytrace something and try to underlay the framebuffer the wireframe version still gets hidden behind the frame buffer. Is this the intended behaviour or should I post a bug report ?
17:15.11esben__I also posted this question on the user mailing list as I am living in Denmark and therefore is not available because of the time difference when you guys from the U.S. are on this channel
17:29.44starseekerstokes his courage with caffine and takes a look at firebirds title page xsl...
17:35.34brlcadesben__: I've seen the mailing list question, just haven't had a chance to look into it or reply
17:36.26``Eriksome people here are in non-us timezones, some people keep odd hours, and some of us read backlog and reply (eventually)
17:37.41CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31842 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (4 files): Commiting more flexible Camera system, having camera with different camera modes. Still WIP, but it's already working better than my previous attemps to control the view.
17:43.55esben__Thanks Sean. I'll just wait for the reply then. About reading backlog I do that too, when I have time...
17:45.17poolioerrr wut: cannot convert ‘face_g_plane*’ to ‘fage_g_plane*’ in assignment
17:45.29poolioThose two look the same to me.
17:49.32``Erikface fage?
17:49.51poolioD'OH.
17:50.00poolioI should get my eyes checked
17:50.24``Erikpop 'em out and mail 'em to a service center
18:04.07brlcadesben__: basically 7.12.5 implies you're using trunk sources .. which is somewhat unstable right now -- I just tried 7.12.2 and can't reproduce what you're saying
18:04.22brlcadmaybe someone else can try trunk (don't have a compile handy atm)
18:04.54brlcadesben__: otherwise, no that's not expected behavior -- underlay should show the wireframe (unless the wireframe is the same color as the framebuffer of course)
18:05.25brlcadhehe, nice one poolio
18:06.01brlcadmafm: the site with your screenshots seems down, is it just from here or really down down?
18:08.00pooliobrlcad: =(
18:08.43brlcad:)
18:18.43mafmbrlcad: it's apache2 that sometimes dies... restarted
18:19.01pooliobrlcad: so I'm trying to compute a rectangular bounding box for a given set of points on a plane. To do this, I'm letting the first point we look at be the "origin," the second point defines the direction of the x-axis/u, and then I project onto the x/y axis to find the min/max points
18:19.09poolioDoes that seem reasonable or am I making this way too complicated?
18:26.58starseekerbrlcad:  I take it clone is also going to need some libged lov'in at some point?
18:29.41mafmbrlcad: one of the things that I wanted to ask before is if there's a set of keys predetermined for trackball mode -- if it's the arrows keys, or other...
18:33.43mafm(demand overflow :P)
18:38.46``Erikheh, "teach yourself programming in 10 years"
18:40.33mafmme with old voice: say 10 years, you punk? Ain't learn Cobol in less than 50, all those verbose sentences...
18:41.10mafm:P
18:41.10mafmmissing / :)
18:41.10``Erikhttp://www.norvig.com/21-days.html
18:43.27brlcadmafm: you're welcome to have an account on brlcad.org, if you're interested
18:43.41mafmyup, I read it like 10 days ago ``Erik :)
18:43.51brlcadwould give you a brlcad.org/~mafm as well as the ability to put stuff under brlcad.org itself
18:44.00``Erikheh, really? nutty :)
18:44.12``Erikonly $50/mo ? :D *duck*
18:45.11mafmwell, if you think that it's worth having it... I would only use it for the screenies atm (I don't know even if I can upload them to the wiki)
18:46.32brlcadyou can upload them into the wiki too, that's open -- but yeah I think it's worth having myself ;)
18:46.36``Erikthe dep chain for darcs is brutal O.o
18:46.59mafmok then
18:47.47mafmI hope that I don't have to send my police file to us army or anything :PPP
18:47.57brlcadmafm: for the account, go to http://bzflag.bz/ hit the link in the bottom right, and go from there (has you do something)
18:48.07brlcadit's not a govt server
18:48.38brlcadit's just one I provide for cad, bz, and a couple dozen other purposes
18:49.50mafmlol, a hidden pixel in the website!
18:50.00mafmI don't hear from that since 1997 or so
18:50.27brlcadit's not hidden, but yeah a lil historic fun ;)
18:51.01``Eriksuch a lame movie, though :)
18:51.12``Erikhad several tiny pi's on pages back in the day O.o
18:51.30brlcadyeah, it was very cheesy
18:51.36brlcadbut memorable :)
18:52.01``Erikum, I just remember the pi symbol and that sandra bullock is lame
18:52.02``Erik:D
18:52.14brlcadif I could get voice authentication working over javascript, you'd have to say "my voice is my passport, verify me .. please"
18:52.50``Erikscoots his office away from brlcad's
18:53.55brlcadhacks the gibson to send ``Erik streaming porn backed with disney music
18:54.27mafmhave to rush to the supermarket for bread before they close, bbiab :D
18:54.50``Erikheh
18:54.52brlcadpoolio: x-axis/u ?
18:54.59``Erikdon't get dizzy from flying around all those cubes
18:55.11``Erikexcuse me while I go make out with angelina's jolies
18:55.13``ErikO:-)
18:55.19starseekerstarts pondering very basic naming functions as a way to think about an increment providing library
18:55.26``Erikwould you like to play a game?
18:55.32brlcadpoolio: if you just want a projected 2d bounding box, just look at their x,y values and min/max them all
18:56.23brlcadglobal thermonuclear war
18:56.42pacman87i finally saw that last year
18:56.56pacman87didn't realize how many quotes from there i'd already heard
18:57.00``Erikheh
18:57.22``Erikor jurassic park, "I recognize this.. it's UNIX!"
18:57.26``Erikwith an old indy
18:57.48brlcad"ah ah ah ... [wags finger] ... ah ah ah"
18:58.07``Erikafter I saw sphere, I ran and wrote a little random print/sleep loop in C to emulate what was going on their terminals heh
18:58.36``Erikand, uh, brlcad, YOU have to blow the computer.
18:58.46pooliobrlcad: that only works if the plane lies in the z-axis though
18:59.02poolioI want to look at their "x,y" values on the plane and min/max them all
18:59.23pacman87poolio: so you're projecting 3d points onto an arbitrary plane?
18:59.40pooliowell, those 3d points are all on the plane
18:59.56``Erikgrar, still getting errors on my mac
19:00.30brlcadpoolio: what is it that you're actually trying to do from a higher level?
19:01.50poolioCreate a planar surface for the brep
19:02.30poolioSo have the rectangular plane, then cut out the surface inside of that plane
19:02.43pooliowell, rectangular surface, and cut out the proper shape of the surface inside of it
19:03.12poolioSo for example, if I have a triangle, I want to first create a rectangle that surrounds the triangle, and then cut the triangle out of that rectangle (using trimming curves)
19:04.22pacman87so the triangle verticies are your 3d points, and you need to know what size rectangle you need to contain them?
19:05.43poolioyes
19:06.51pacman87could you use the 3d bounding box for the 3d points, and transfer that to the 2d plane?
19:09.29pooliohmm, that's probably a much easier way to do it, but I'd have to intersect the plane with the bounding box
19:10.01pacman87it depends on how many 3d points you have
19:10.52pacman87if it's only a few, it might be faster to project them all to the plane first
19:11.55poolioIt's highly variable
19:12.06poolioI'm thinking that intersecting with the BB is probalby a better way to do it though
19:12.06pacman87what's the average case?
19:12.33poolionot really sure...it's used to convert any NMG to brep
19:13.13poolioA fairly typical case may be 8 points when used for an arb8, but I'm guessing that there are models with a very large number of points
19:15.39poolioSo intersecting with the BB works, but it's not the prettiest in terms of the geometry of the brep. If you have say, a rectangular surface, that is not axis-aligned, then you have to trim the surface at odd angles
19:15.46pacman87if you know the plane's normal vector, dot it with each of the three axes (x,y,z), and see which is closest to zero.  then you can project into that plane by ignoring that coordinate, get your 2d box, and transform it back to the real 2d plane
19:16.35pacman87poolio: you could try getting a rect bounding box for the intersection...
19:16.53pooliowell, it'd be rectangular but the issue is that it's not aligned with the face geometry
19:17.40pacman87if alignment is worth starting with a larger box, you can just make an aligned box around the first bo
19:17.41pacman87x
19:18.10poolioah hmm
19:18.30poolioI'm going to see if my hacked up method works, if not, then yours sounds ... better :)
19:19.03``Eriklaughs evilly as he commits
19:19.06CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31843 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c: change to output using bu_image routines instead of straight pix
19:19.08pacman87is your hacked up the "first point is origin, second is direction of x?"
19:20.15*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
19:20.18pacman87poolio: and if your worried about aligning your bounding box, wouldnt that determine your x/y directions?
19:20.41poolioWouldn't what?
19:20.52pooliopacman87: yes
19:21.11pacman87poolio: yes to which: hacked up, or directions?
19:21.23pooliohacked up
19:22.13pacman87if you need your bounding box to be aligned, you should use those axes you want to be aligned to, instead of an arbitrary set
19:22.15poolioThat determines x/y directions. So I could just take the bounding box, create a new bounding box that's properly aligned and encloses the previous box. Then intersect the aligned box
19:22.55pooliopacman87: When I say aligned, I mean aligned with the geometry, not aligned with the x/y/z axis
19:23.08poolioI think I'm confusing both you and myself :(
19:25.33pacman87so the aligned box has its own axes (u,v)?
19:26.01poolioyes
19:26.23pacman87do you know what those axes are before you create the first bounding box?
19:28.16pooliowell, the first bounding box is automatically created and axis aligned
19:28.25poolio(the standard min_pt, max_pt)
19:28.46poolioSo, no.
19:31.47esben__brlcad: Thanks. Do you need more info ? I go to bed now so lets continue over mail if you need more info. I the mean time I discovered another strange thing which I will report on the user list tomorrow Good night when you get that far.
19:32.03mafmback
19:34.45CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31844 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (5 files): Removing previous (and now unneeded) hacks related with camera positioning
19:36.37pacman87poolio: ah, i was thinking if you already knew the u,v axes you wanted for the aligned bounding box, you could use those axes directly in determining max/min bounds for your points, and skip the "aligned bounding box around the x/y/z bounding box"
19:37.57*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.196.59)
19:38.18pacman87though i'm not quite sure what you mean by 'automatically created'; i though you were the one making the bounding box
19:39.57poolioWell, the NMG primitive has a min_pt and max_pt for a face
19:46.48CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31845 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c: fix revolve's norm(), broken by trying to be too clever; incremental improvements to plot() for handling partial revolves of open sketches - draw lines to close sketches
19:50.32starseekerAnybody know the "right" way in C to ask for the number of characters in an integer?
19:50.52``Erikerm, snprintf and strlen it?
19:51.05``Erikor do a reduction loop?
19:51.07starseekerright - that's the right way?
19:51.18starseekerwas hoping for charlength(number) or something cute
19:51.28``Eriknot that I know of
19:51.32starseekerphooey
19:51.34starseekerok
19:51.35starseekerthanks
19:52.22``Erik{ int i = 1, x = val; while( x>10 ) { ++i; x /= 10; } printf("%d\n", i); }
19:52.44pacman87don't forget about the negative
19:53.17``Erikok, abs(x)>10, ptbtbbt
19:53.30pacman87and add a char for the '
19:53.32pacman87-'
19:53.35``Erik(plus, I suppose, the -)
19:54.22starseekerbu_log("%d\n",snprintf(NULL, 0, "%d",i)); seems to do what I need
19:54.24starseekerthanks :-)
19:55.26``Erikheh, string length of a number, silly lithper :D
19:55.30``Erik"Mom? Whats 6 x 8?" "Oh sweetie, those are two completely different numbers!"
19:57.49``Erikdoesn't know that he'd trust writing 0 bytes to a NULL ptr to return the real length instead of 0 or -1
20:01.03starseekerOK, now question two.  How to make printf use a number in a variable, e.g. printf("%numofspacesd",integer);
20:01.13mafmI go now, take care folks :)
20:01.19``Erik"% 4d"
20:01.28``Erik?
20:01.30starseekeryes, but 4 is in a variable
20:01.35``Erikoh
20:02.10``Erikchar fmt[BUFSIZ]; snprintf(fmt, "%%%dd", x); printf(fmt, i);
20:02.38``Erikminus the bugs/typos
20:02.56starseekerDoes vls have anything?
20:03.22``ErikIuhho
20:04.02Ralith%%%dd looks more like your repeat rate is set too high than a valid format string
20:05.17starseekerhunts
20:05.18``Erikprintf("%%%dd\n", 4); will print "%4d"
20:05.30RalithI know
20:05.37Ralithit's just kinda funny :P
20:05.43``Erik:D could be worse
20:05.46Ralithtrue
20:05.50``Eriktake a look at lisps  format notation
20:05.52Raliththis is C, after all
20:06.07``Erikso many weird ~ commands that you'll get seasick from the waves :D
20:06.12Ralithhehe
20:06.40pacman87http://xkcd.com/234/
20:07.54``Erikhttp://xkcd.com/224 :)
20:08.04``Erikis in a very lisp state of mind at the moment
20:08.19``Eriktime to swap brains with cliff for a bit O.o
20:08.49starseekerI wouldn't do that if I were you :-)
20:09.44``Erikdoesn't grok how to address a thread in sbcl
20:10.46``Eriklike, I see one from (sb-thread:list-all-threads) I want defined as #<SB-THREAD "some name" {432135}> and I want to (sb-thread:terminate-thread 'it)
20:11.29``Erikdo (car (sb-thread:list-all-threads)) to get the legit pointer to the object?
20:11.40``Eriktries
20:12.51``Erikyuh oh, now sbcl isn't seeing the packages I installed with asdf
20:13.03starseekerhas actually never delt with sbcl threads
20:13.34``Erikbah, fat lot of good you are :D *duck*
20:15.33``Erikah, the car approach works
20:31.02starseeker``Erik:  Thanks - it looks strange but it does work
20:31.48``Erikhuh? what looks strange? O.o
20:32.07``Erikoh, generating the format string at runtime?
20:32.16starseekerThe format string for sprintf - %%s%%s%%0%dd%%s%%s...
20:32.28starseekerit's getting close to Perl readibility
20:32.41``Erikheh
20:32.58``Erikthat's why C programmers comment ugly things like that O:-)
21:37.26*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
22:26.01pacman87poolio: how'd your bounding work out?
22:35.24pooliopacman87: welllllll. I think it's working right...but there's still a bug somewhere
22:35.33pooliopacman87: Ask me again in about an hour :)
22:37.36pacman87good luck
22:42.58poolioMake that  ... a few more hours...going to see hellboy ii :)
22:53.36``Erikheh
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080716

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080716

00:03.34*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
00:48.48RalithI don't suppose the SoC rules allow third parties to aid development?
00:48.55Ralith(not counting the mentor)
00:58.36RalithCan one even get ahold of the code from the current SoC projects?
01:00.38RalithAlso, just how much of a task might a realtime shaded view be?
01:12.28brlcadRalith: sure they do
01:12.52brlcadcollaboration and integration is actually highly encouraged
01:13.23brlcadthe student just can't use that as a crutch to not do work and the collaboration can't negatively impact their ability to do work
01:15.24Ralithoo!
01:15.34Ralithin that case, where can I get at the new GUI code?
01:16.06brlcadthe main point of gsoc is actually to (hopefully) make them new (long-term) developers, build up our dev team .. not just for them to work on a project
01:16.32brlcadthe new gui code is sitting in the rt^3 branch
01:16.35brlcad~cadsvn
01:16.36ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
01:17.15Ralithwoo
01:17.17Raliththanks
01:17.18brlcadreplace brlcad/brlcad with brlcad/rt^3 (and brlcad with rt^3
01:17.33Ralithis there summary of the branches anywhere?
01:17.53brlcadyeah, it's asking one of the devs in here or on the mailing list ;)
01:18.01Ralithconsider yourself asked
01:19.13brlcadthere are 5 top level "modules" that came over from our cvs repo, seen at http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/
01:19.49brlcadbrlcad is the main codebase, core libraries, the big hot dog kahuna mamma million lines of cadness
01:20.26Ralithoh, so it's not actual code branches, just organization?
01:20.41brlcadjbrlcad is/was a test project by one of the core devs that implemented a (very very small) portion of our "librt" raytrace library in pure java
01:20.51Ralithheh
01:21.19brlcadthere are also branches, potentially, for each of these modules -- though afaik, 'brlcad' is the only one that has branches and STABLE is the only one of interest atm
01:21.21Ralitha raytracing library in java; you don't hear about that every day
01:21.44brlcadit was actually a rather enlightening exercise
01:21.48Ralithoh?
01:22.34*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-169-154-132.dyn.iinet.net.au)
01:22.41brlcadnot so much the java part but how we can go about restructuring our huge librt library into an object-oriented framework (hint: it surprisingly converts over very neatly)
01:23.11brlcadlibrt is at brl-cad's core, it provides the geometric representation, data i/o, primitives, boolean operations, ray-trace evaluation, etc
01:23.42Ralithis there much to be gained from such a restructure, though?
01:24.36brlcadrtcmp is another pet project for comparing librt ray-trace results against our libtie high-performance "triangle intersection" library (as well as another closed source lib)
01:26.16brlcadmy bad, misspoke we wouldn't want to replace librt with such a restructuring -- s/restructuring our huge librt/structuring a new object-oriented API on top of our librt/
01:27.13brlcadthere is a pretty strong request to also have an oo c++ api in addition to and/or on top of our c libs
01:27.32Ralithahh.
01:27.50brlcadcontinuing, the 'web' module is a stubbed (mostly empty) placeholder for revision controlling the website
01:27.52RalithIsn't that a pretty simple (if lengthy) task?
01:28.11brlcadvery lengthy
01:28.23brlcadmostly simple, there are some complex things to sort out
01:28.41brlcadespecially how to best leverage our c libs, don't want to rewrite
01:30.41brlcadthat leaves the last 'rt^3' module whose original purpose isn't so important, but has become a place to put the new gui and oo geometry engine infrastructure
01:30.44brlcad(don't want to mix C++ in with the brl-cad's C sources any more than we need to)
01:31.30brlcadplus we (directly) manage all external dependencies and the front-end gui has a hell of a lot of dependencies that have nothing to do with the rest of brl-cad
01:31.42Ralithyeah, I noticed that
01:32.10Ralithit seems kind of strange; one doesn't need all that much for such a purpose-specific app.
01:33.03RalithIs there an existing wiki page buried somewhere that would be good for this info, or shall I start a new one?
01:43.36brlcadthere are some pages on the wiki that relate to it
01:44.30brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/OpenGL_GUI_Framework  and  http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:mafm for starters
01:45.04brlcadotherwise there's not a lot up yet
01:46.23RalithI was referring to the SVN branch info, actually
01:55.47brlcadoooh
01:55.52brlcadsure, go for it if you like
01:56.36brlcadhugs the wiki and hugs MinuteElectron
02:00.42starseekerRalith:  Actually, you'd be surprised how much a full featured GUI needs
02:01.26brlcadstarseeker: that's pretty freaky relying on snprintf(null, 0) like that .. :) might want to pass a valid non-zero-length buffer just in case
02:01.27starseekerat least for something like CAD
02:02.11starseekerbrlcad:  sure, no problem - is that actually the "right way" to do it?
02:02.25starseekerthe snprintf trick works, but eeek
02:02.30brlcadit's certainly "a" way
02:02.38brlcadand at least one supported by c99, dunno about c89
02:02.46starseekerhmm.
02:03.10starseekerwas looking for a "right" way, but will take working...
02:03.45brlcadcurious, what doyou need dynamic size for?
02:04.10brlcadusually taboo and potential security issue to have non-const format specifiers
02:05.06starseekerstrings with different numbers of digits - prim-0001.s up to prim-1000.s, prim-01.s to prim-10.s, etc
02:05.35starseeker%04d works for the first, %02d for the second
02:06.16brlcadhmm
02:06.17starseekerbut if I don't specify the number of zeros needed up front, I get stuff like prim-1.s to prim-10.s
02:06.22starseekerbad
02:06.29starseekerdoesn't list nicely
02:06.34brlcadsure
02:07.05starseekerI have a little test routine working using the snprintf trick, which could eventually get put into the get_name logic we discussed
02:07.34brlcadand ideally preserves the original padding, or automatically pads up to the 'n' specified (for cloning) that fits whatever increment
02:07.35starseekerI figured non-const was OK since it's defined in the routine itself based on the input params...
02:07.44starseekerexactly
02:07.51brlcadexcept the input params are user-provided
02:07.58starseekerright
02:08.06starseekerwhoops, gotta run - biab
02:08.08brlcadmeans it's exactly the sort of case that would need to be extra-checked ;)
02:09.08Ralithstarseeker: well, I've seen all sorts of GL-using programs do it *without* ogre
02:09.22Ralithand I have the strong (perhaps incorrect?) perception that ogre is about as heavy as they come
02:09.54pacman87starseeker: i just remembered you could also use log|x| to find the number of digits
02:09.58brlcadi'd say that's not entirely correct .. ogre's one of the smallest "engines" out there
02:10.17brlcadespecially given they only focus on the rendering
02:10.46brlcadiirc, osg was a fair bit bigger, cs is definitely bigger
02:11.26Ralitharen't these all designed for use with things like games?
02:11.36brlcadnot at all
02:11.44RalithI thought the requirements here were far simpler than what those libraries support.
02:12.00brlcad"graphics" applications for those three
02:13.14Ralithwell, so long as it works, I suppose.
02:13.23Ralithnothing wrong with a nice, abstract interface
02:13.27brlcadthe main reasons for ogre (or any engine) have been to provide proper scenegraph management, automatic LoD, automatic rendering styles, and cross-platform acceleration support
02:13.50Ralithrendering styles?
02:14.29pacman87digits = floor( log10(number) ) + 1;
02:14.47brlcadhome-grown usually has "no" scenegraph management beyond a simple "here display all this stuff" on/off, which is hell for exceptionally large models
02:15.08Raliththat makes sense, given the complexity of things done with brl-acd
02:15.10Ralithcad*
02:15.21Ralithpacman87: neat
02:15.41brlcadrendering styles like non-hidden wireframe, fully-shaded displays, cell-shaded, flat-shaded, hidden wireframe, etc
02:16.22pacman87Ralith: thanks, my older brother told me about that trick a while ago
02:16.23Ralithso the new GUI's going to include a proper shaded display? :D
02:17.29poolioWOOHOO. NMG -> brep works for all arbs :D
02:17.30brlcadRalith: yes, that is one of the primary goals
02:17.40brlcadpoolio: woot!
02:17.54pacman87poolio: congrats
02:17.54pooliopacman87: so yes, algorithm did work but it's awfully inefficient
02:18.01pacman87which one?
02:18.04poolioI probably have ~2 hours worth of code cleanup/etc though
02:18.14Ralithbrlcad: awesome!
02:18.37brlcadRalith: though the main reason mged doesn't do shaded displays has much more to do with geometric representation -- unevaluated implicit surfaces with boolean operations have no intrinsic polygonal representation to send to opengl, it has to be evaluated
02:19.36brlcadto do proper shaded displays of arbitrary geometry requires what poolio is working on right now (unevaluated implicit primitives -> spline surface or polygonal boundary representation primitives)
02:20.06brlcadthen CSG evaluation of brep on brep surfaces, then tessellation of breps
02:20.16brlcad*then* we have fully shaded displays of ANY geometry
02:20.20pooliopacman87: The project onto the arbitrary axes, calculate min u/v on that plane -> 3-space
02:21.04poolioIt's also nice in that if you have a rotate arb with a rectangular face the surface w/out trimming curves matches up....although that's just nice for staring at /debugging brep output
02:21.14brlcadpoolio: that's where coming in to talk with Ed would certainly help, he's great at finding ways to optimize/simplify an algorithm
02:22.14brlcadthough I forgot to mention last week that there was something cool you could have gone to today .. :/
02:22.43brlcaddrinks a mt dew for dinner
02:22.44poolioaww man :( was it the tour?
02:23.36pooliobrlcad: So do you think it's more important to continue and fully support all types of NMGs (multi-shell/region, inner wire loops, etc...) or supporting other primitives?
02:26.52brlcadpoolio: yeah :(
02:27.03brlcadordnance museum
02:31.05brlcadpoolio: if you want to try out other primitives, go for it -- maybe add a section to the top-level TODO or to a doc in src/librt/primitives with details on where you left off at, what's working, and/or what's remaining
02:44.54starseekerbrlcad: In this case, I think the check would be that the number of user supplied clones is between 1 and INT_MAX or some such
02:45.11starseekerbrlcad:  The string size follows directly and internally from that
02:51.34brlcadthat's not quite what I mean
02:53.22brlcadif the user can provide the input string (which they are in this case), there's the potential to inject print specifiers of their own -- often in ways that can creatively overrun a buffer and jump to code of their own (security hole)
02:55.08brlcadit'd even be safer to count the number of digits in the pattern and do a for loop that iterates over printing "%c" to print each digit one at a time, or a case table that supports a set of sizes .. but all of them still using a constant format specifier
03:02.25starseekerI don't quite see - the user isn't providing the string, except to specify they want an incrementer in position x
03:03.24starseekeraccording to what you outlined this evening, they aren't supplying any strings at all except for an already valid primitive name
03:05.08starseekerOr are you thinking some operation that doesn't use an existing primitive?
03:06.15starseekeris just trying to envision an attack vector
03:12.34brlcadmore around the idea that you're implementing a general librt routine for naming objects and don't really know where the input string comes from
03:13.48brlcadcould come up with a variety of example, but say specific to clone's case, the modeler says "clone my_object_0000.c -n 100" ..
03:14.47brlcadthat my_object_0000.c would be the pattern you'd want to fit to and probably even start from (at least dwayne has said as much, and I believe clone already tries to preserve such existing numerations)
03:16.05brlcadespecially if the pattern in that case was something like {prefix}{num}{suffix}, so it matches 0000 and you'd expect to end up with my_object_0100.c and so on
03:17.08starseekerOK, that's a good argument for digit counting, if there are any, and comparing it to what is needed by the arg to -n
03:18.15starseekerbut I still don't see how it presents an attack vector - in the end it's just a count of digits and reading them in as an int
03:19.24starseekerI suppose you could do an append operation to add chars as numbers one at a time, but ouch...
03:24.03brlcadcould do lots of twisted things with something like: clone my_%n_0000.c
03:24.27brlcadand various variations thereof
03:26.34pooliooo. Never had "]]))" appear in my C code before :P
03:26.48brlcadthe point wasn't so much to come up with a specific failure case, there are plenty of links throughout the web for tricks you can play ;)
03:29.31brlcadthe point was more "try to structure the processing so you don't need dynamic format specifiers" -- just about any dynamic format specifier can be turned into a loop, then you just need to do some basic sanity checking
03:35.55yukonbobhello, cadheads
03:36.36brlcadhowdy yukonbob
03:37.08yukonbobwhat's happening, my friend?
03:39.51starseekerbrlcad:  OK... I'll have to run it by you once I've got something written.  (Maybe we could just disallow % in primitive names? ;-)
03:40.24starseekerhates having to deal with individual characters when there are more powerful tools available
03:43.10starseekerOh, well... I guess that's life
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04:27.22brlcadstarseeker: like I said, you're making a new public api call -- that's where the checking needs to occur to be 'secure' regardless of whatever validation/limitations that mged or other apps impose on their end
04:27.52pooliobrlcad: I think I'm getting some weird C/C++ header confusion. I'm including vmath.h but it's not picking up the constant definitions, like 'X', and 'Y'
04:28.19poolioIf I also include 'dm.h' I get the X,Y, and Z but not W/H
04:28.26brlcadpoolio: hum, perhaps some subsequent header is undefining them
04:28.54brlcadtry adding it last to test
04:28.58poolioIt's the last one included... but maybe one of the previous header includes it as well
04:29.59poolioah hmm:
04:30.09pooliobrep.h:#undef X
04:31.05brlcadyeah, I forget exactly what that was needed
04:31.34brlcadthose are such general symbols, iirc there was some borkage deep in the c++ template headers
04:31.42brlcador it was something in the openNURBS headers
04:32.12poolioYeah...has a XXX ack, a hack comment. I can't force it because rtgeom.h includes vmath.h and then brep.h
04:32.31poolioThe only thing to do seems to be to just add a definition myself
04:32.58brlcadyou can change our header logic to accommodate
04:33.17brlcadconditionally def/undef or redef after undef, etc
04:38.17pooliobrlcad: do you remember what it broke?
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05:16.23Ralithhm, Ogre seems to depend on CEGUI. I wonder if that can be cut out.
05:45.47brlcadRalith: it doesn't/shouldn't depend on it, though some of their code samples may
05:45.54brlcadpoolio: compilation ;)
05:46.24Ralithsmacks ports
05:46.29RalithI disabled code samples >:|
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06:05.20brlcadRalith: bsder?
06:05.34Ralithyep
06:05.35Ralithfreebsd
06:05.42brlcadawesome
06:05.50Ralitho/
06:05.55Ralithwrestling with porting Mocha right now
06:06.14Ralithmafm come on here ever?
06:06.20brlcadyou did hopefully see that the sources are in the rt^3 module I hope? :)
06:06.28Ralithyeah
06:06.32brlcadthey require some minor patches and latest sources
06:06.32RalithI'm worrying about deps
06:06.42Ralithoh, they're already made portable?
06:06.42Ralithcool
06:06.51Ralithoh!
06:06.54RalithI see what you meant
06:07.00brlcadthey're in src/other
06:07.04Ralithkk
06:07.24brlcadhe included some makefile logic to build them
06:07.51brlcadbut forewarning that it's not been tested by more than just a couple people so far, so not compilation-robust
06:08.10Raliththat's what I'm here for
06:08.24Ralithif I wasn't happy to be testing and making patches, I wouldn't have checked out SVN code.
06:08.32brlcad\o/
06:09.58Ralithglad to see he's got the build problem largely addressed, though
06:10.18Ralithwas worried when I saw the rbgui page stating non-windows was unsupported
06:10.45brlcadyeah, I rattled his cage for quite a while to try to make it more seamless and automatic to build
06:11.09Ralithargh
06:11.20Ralithwhy does NOTHING put /usr/local/include in the default search path >:|
06:11.45brlcadautomatic dep management is a pretty big deal (and pet peeve) for the project in general, fully portably managing deps, not depending on anything being installed, not requiring the user go get stuff
06:12.16brlcadour main module does :)
06:12.32Ralithkudos
06:13.43Ralithoh this looks bad
06:14.13Ralith:D
06:14.19Raliththere's already freebsd patches for ois
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06:15.43Ralithhm, I wonder if these break non-freebsd
06:16.05yukonbobRalith: add to brlcad's description the tension of being able to use a system's pre-installed libraries, etc. and it's "fun" with a capital "F".
06:16.48Ralithyukonbob: I don't entirely follow
06:16.56Raliththat's not tension so much as a useful feature
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06:17.24brlcadyeah, tries to detect system libs and prefer them by default unless overridden, otherwise compiling the dep cleanly as if it were bundled
06:17.34Ralithnice.
06:18.21brlcadthe hard part there is the plethora of versions, e.g. having a tcl/tk 8.4 but no itcl installed, yet our itcl requires 8.5, and a variety of combinations thereof
06:18.38yukonbob:)
06:18.46yukonbobCapital "F", I tell ya...
06:19.42yukonbobwould you say I have a plethora of gifts?
06:20.38brlcada plethora of .. something ;)
06:20.42yukonbobheh --
06:20.47Ralithhehe
06:20.52yukonbobis channeling The Three Amigos
06:21.05Ralithbrlcad: I don't suppose there's a makefile equivalent of #ifdef __FreeBSD__ ?
06:22.43Ralithwell, I can always wrap the entire file in that
06:22.47Ralithbut that's hacky
06:22.48brlcadthose makefile(s) in src/other can change
06:22.58brlcadthey're not going to stay that way
06:23.11Ralithyeah
06:23.20Ralithmy idea was to be an agent of that change :P
06:23.59brlcadhis project is also a mild experiment in cmake's flexibility, but he isn't very familiar with it (and doesn't really have time during gsoc to figure it out more than absolutely necessary)
06:24.34brlcadso the idea would be to eventually end up with something similar to our gnu build system infrastructure on the main trunk in cmake for rt^3
06:24.52brlcador just gut it for gbs if it turns out to be too much hassle
06:25.11Ralithwell, this will still make it work on freebsd without breaking other stuff for the short term.
06:25.17brlcadhaving it be seemlessly cross-compilable to Windows would be a big win, though, which cmake offers
06:26.49yukonbobRalith: I'm not entirely sure what you're working on, but you might consider patching as part of the build in ports, too, w/o touching the BRL-CAD tree...
06:27.04Ralithyukonbob: I'm taking the patches from ports, actually
06:27.07yukonbobs/entirely sure/sure at all/
06:27.11Ralithexcept applying them nondestructively
06:27.17Ralithor should I not even bother, and just grab from there?
06:28.22yukonbobare you trying to get some FreeBSD-specific building happening that's not already addressed in the patches?
06:28.46RalithI'm trying to apply what's in the patches nondestructively to the stuff in svn
06:29.08yukonbob?"nondestructively"
06:29.24Raliththe existing patches kill a variety of things for the sake of making it work on FreeBSD, which doesn't actually support them in the first place
06:29.40Ralithgtg now, actually
06:29.44Ralithguess I'll leave the ois stuff alone for now
06:29.51yukonbobchat later :)
06:30.11brlcadcya later Ralith
06:30.12RalithI'll probably be forced to make it up as I go along for other bits that aren't in ports, anyway
06:30.30Ralithseeya
06:30.32brlcadlooks forward to seeing patches ;)
06:30.44yukonboblooks forward to hitting hay...
06:30.50brlcadyukonbob: crazy talk
06:30.52brlcadyawns
06:31.42yukonbobknows that brlcad seems to get by on .5h sleep/day, and an occasional sushi platter, but I'm not brlcad... so I sleep.
06:32.15yukonbobon that note... ciao for now, geeks.
06:32.32brlcadheh, cya
06:32.46brlcadwonders what timezone he's in
06:33.20yukonbob== pacific... 11:30 now -- 5am approaching too soon...
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08:36.58lleroystarseeker: printf("%*d", 4, i)
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08:42.09mafmhey
08:45.50CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31846 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraModes.cxx CameraModes.h): Separating declaration and implementation of camera modes, since the code in these files is going to grow
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09:00.57brlcadhowdy mafm
09:02.37mafmo/
09:02.48brlcadmafm, you had a fan checking out your project earlier, he started poking at the code .. he'll undoubtedly be back in a while
09:03.32mafmhuh?
09:03.41mafmsombody from brl-cad?
09:03.50brlcadsomeone new
09:04.18brlcad(a coder)
09:09.58mafmhuh
09:10.09mafmwhy does he know about the code? trade secret!
09:10.51mafmcan we silence him before he spreads the word?
09:11.28brlcadhe wants to help work on it
09:12.19CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31847 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraManager.cxx CameraManager.h): Changing private Observer/Listener pattern implementation by the one already existing in the project
09:12.49mafmI see
09:13.00mafmdo you remember his nickname?
09:13.39brlcadRalith
09:14.48mafmfine, I'll speak with him when I see him :)
09:15.42mafmbut I don't know if it's advisable for other people to start developing it this early? I don't know if that would mess gsoc plans
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09:36.12brlcadworking integrated with others is part of gsoc, you've been "lucky" so far ;) .. but not to worry, nothing that would significantly derail your schedule/progress
09:38.40brlcadas I mentioned to him, collaboration and integration is actually highly encouraged for most projects/students
09:38.46brlcadthe student just can't use that as a crutch to not do work and the collaboration can't negatively impact their ability to do work
09:39.18mafmyes, I mean if he wants to work in things like the communication with libged...
09:39.47brlcadthe main point of gsoc is actually to (hopefully) make you a new (long-term) developer, build up our dev team .. not just for folks to work on a project ;)
09:41.17brlcadyeah, would try to find something productive of course
09:41.31brlcadat this point, he's just compiling -- was going to look into cleaning up the build system
09:43.14mafmgoody
09:43.59mafmbtw, I think that maybe shortly after gsoc we have to start to worry about the GUI toolkit at least
09:46.22CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31848 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CameraModes.cxx: Setting limits to orbital camera mode, so it doesn't cause strange artifacts when verticalRotation is greater than PI/2 (or smaller than -PI/2). Maybe it should continue to rotate but seamlessly, I don't know...
09:47.01mafmthey're like missing in action, and apart from the private patches there are small glitches here and there, even if I didn't start to create very complex things
09:47.43brlcadi don't care so much that they're missing in action, but the glitches are cause for concern
09:47.55brlcadhave you been able to get a feel for how well it's suited to customization yet?
09:48.39brlcadinput binding customization, theming the appearance, developing custom layout managers
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09:52.26CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31849 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Application.cxx CameraManager.cxx CameraModes.h Commands.h): Minor changes in comments/indentation, adding missing #ifdefs around Commands.h
09:52.55mafmnot much of that yet, but in example the Text widget for the console doesn't seem to have scrolling working
09:56.07mafmabout theming I changed fonts and minor things only, and you can define many things (corners, borders, etc) but it looks like it needs minucious/detailed work, or a good editor
09:56.31mafmthat is, I think that it's not difficult to get a theme that you work, but probably it needs time
10:10.23mafmhttp://graphjam.com/2008/07/15/song-chart-memes-breakdown-of-government-funding-in-england/ -- Silly Brittish :)
10:20.58mafmbrlcad: http://www.clutter-project.org/ | http://moblin.org/playground/?q=node/76
10:21.48mafmbrlcad: it seems that they're going to experiment with that with 3.0, still I don't know if it's advisable to try that path, it's the 1st time that I hear from that project
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12:30.32brlcadmafm: I've heard of them, they've come a long ways
12:32.00brlcadmafm: I wouldn't try that path unless you were set on *not* using rbgui for sure
12:33.18brlcadclutter has decent portability on paper, but also a few additional dependencies too so they'd have to be reviewed .. plus their actual widget/interactions is fairly minimal -- you'd have to implement things like tabbed contexts, input text areas, etc
12:35.00brlcadotherwise, I love their overall approach, there are lots of features in the moblin interface that show how some reasonably powerful widgets and interactions can be made to work
12:35.19brlcadintegrating that with the 3D render engine could be interesting..
12:44.19mafmoki, I'll keep it in mind for after gsoc
12:45.09mafmin the meantime, I have a question about trackballs -- what input events they generate? the computer sees it as a regular mouse?
12:45.52brlcad"trackball mode" has nothing to do with a physical trackball ... :)
12:46.12brlcadbut yah, they're usually regular mice
12:46.37yukonbobmorning, cadheads
12:46.42brlcadturn a mouse with a ball upside down, make the ball a lot bigger
12:47.28mafmyes, I know that, but I mean if the computer/OS feeds that as a mouse, in x-windows
12:48.07brlcadyep
12:48.19mafmgoody
12:48.19brlcadit really is just an upside down mouse
12:48.38mafmand the rotations are discrete, as in blender?
12:48.59brlcaddiscrete in what way?
12:49.20mafmin that with each key stroke means 15 degrees or whatever
12:49.24brlcadthe rotations are whatever you make the bindings do :)
12:49.35mafmcurrently my orbital mode acts almost in the same way, just that it's continuous
12:49.48mafmand has the vertical glitch
12:50.08brlcadkey stroke? i don't have any keys on my trackball
12:50.16brlcadlots of buttons, but no kesy
12:50.31mafmI'm now talking about trackball, the mode :D
12:51.08mafmis the one that implements blender, IIRC from your conversation yesterday
12:51.17mafmand to move the camera, you use the numpad
12:54.30mafmso the difference between blender an mine is:
12:55.28mafmin blender) each keypressed event acts as a trigger, and makes 30 degrees of rotation or so; if you maintain it pressed it for longer time it rotates for that while, but in discrete steps of same 30 degrees
12:56.22brlcadmged behaves that way too, discrete vertical/horizontal view rotations
12:56.31brlcadthough I think we're about 5 degrees
12:56.36mafmin mine) keypressed and released act as on a switch, and the rotation is "continuous" (from when you press until when you release); the camera position is updated every loop of the renderer
12:58.10mafm360 / ~24 steps for full revolution = 15 degrees
12:58.11brlcadpress x/y/z/X/Y/Z/0 in mged graphics window, you get that
12:58.40brlcadthat'd be the shift-grips/mged binding style of course
13:00.35mafmshift-grips? we were talking about trackball
13:00.45brlcadbe sure to peek at blender's View -> View Navigation menu
13:01.11brlcadsure, just commenting that they're there
13:01.21brlcadso you can test it out
13:02.15mafmerm... so the mged and blender are very different
13:03.33brlcadoh sure
13:03.49brlcadblender is a heck of a lot different than most modeling guis, much less a cad gui
13:04.13mafmso my orbital mode is different than both
13:04.24mafmdo you want me to mimic brlcad's, I guesS?
13:04.34mafmbrl-cad's, I mean :)
13:05.04mafmor rather, mged's
13:06.08brlcadif you set it up right, the only different between shift-grips, blenders, and your orbital mode is default bindings -- the same operations are pretty much available to all of them (just via different bindings or unspecified)
13:06.42brlcadso you really just have to focus on the events/actions that can be bound, and managing sets of bindings as an input style set
13:08.03mafmyes, eventually I'd create the generic operations in the base class
13:08.45mafmbut the question is: do you want me to create Trackball and Shif-grips with exactly the same keys and behaviours than mged?
13:11.55brlcadhm, actions that come to mind...  pan up/down, pan left/right, pan freely, rotate horizontally left/right, rotate vertically up/down, rotate freely, fly navigation, zoom in, zoom out -- and all as continuous/quasi-modal or discrete events
13:13.10brlcadwell, at least mimic'ing shift-grips .. beyond that whatever else you like
13:13.40mafmwell, that shift-grips is quite... complete :D
13:13.58brlcadI would recommend blender's default bindings as another predefined, but up to you
13:14.11brlcadshift-grips should cover most any interaction except a fly mode
13:14.42mafmthe bindings for the different modes are switchable, or all of them are present at the same time?
13:14.55brlcadforget about "trackball" as a mode -- what was mostly meant by that was a mode where left-mouse+drag bound to "rotate view"
13:15.06mafmswitchable as "only one active at a given time"
13:15.18brlcadblender's is pretty close to that, they use middle mouse for rotate view
13:16.09brlcadonly one active at a given time
13:16.20brlcadthey can't be active simultaneously, the bindings are entirely different
13:16.41mafmI find your trackball mode -or whatever you call to the x/y/z/0- very funny :D
13:17.43brlcadmiddle-mouse+drag is what I was referring to as a "trackball" view manipulation, btw .. and a pretty good implementation
13:18.16brlcad(in blender)
13:19.44mafmSo... to make things clear, what should I implement for my trackball?  Blender middle-mouse+drag and x/z/y/0 for axial rotation?
13:23.42brlcadcontrol+(any)-mouse+drag in mged == middle-mouse+drag in blender == 'view rotation' == 'trackball view rotation'
13:24.53brlcadmake a 'mafm' style, have it do whatever you want :)
13:24.57mafmOK, but I mean exactly which keys do you want :)
13:25.18mafmI already have my style, it's the orbital one -- which is very similar in essence
13:25.19brlcadhave an 'mged' style that is effectively shift-grips as close as you can get it
13:26.21brlcadthen maybe add a 'blender' style that is as close to blender as possible (not hybridized with 'mged' bindings, that just makes it confusing and error-prone)
13:27.54brlcadif you have those three with a relatively straightforward way to define new styles, any one of those three styles would be more than enough
13:28.45mafmokish, thanks :)
13:31.15*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:37.17mafmhi d_rossberg
13:42.12*** join/#brlcad esben (n=esben@0x573ff382.boanqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk)
13:43.26d_rossbergmoin mafm
14:52.31*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=chatzill@189.71.36.28)
14:52.33andrecastelohey guys
14:52.41pacman87hi andrecastelo
14:52.49andrecastelohi pacman87
14:53.09mafmhi
14:56.08andrecastelohey mafm
15:01.36mafmheyo
15:01.59mafmtoo hot cold there in Brazil? :P
15:12.24andrecasteloit's raining now :S
15:14.20mafmat Lisbon it's 30+ degrees
15:14.29mafmand it's a cold summer, fortunately :D
15:21.14d_rossbergmoin pacman87, now the revolve ray-trace works for me too :)
15:22.30d_rossberg(if not along a coordinate axis)
15:26.57mafmsvn: Server sent unexpected return value (403 Forbidden) in response to MKACTIVITY request for '/svnroot/brlcad/!svn/act/683d9f64-d642-4309-846b-f929d2cad1b5'
15:26.59mafm?
15:27.31mafmfascist pigs, they forbid me to commit!!!111! :P
15:29.55*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.201.183)
15:30.41prasad_brlcad: so i started working out again
15:30.57prasad_after a ~1 yr hiatus
15:31.02prasad_:)
16:00.12*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-95-207.dclient.hispeed.ch)
16:01.40mafmhi clock_
16:01.48mafmis anybody else having problems with commiting?
16:05.14mafmeven google accounts are failing
16:05.39mafmit might be a sign of the Apocalypsis or something...
16:11.32*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
17:05.42mafmbrlcad: is there a way for you to check svn logs?
17:07.33mafmoh, it seems that it's an scheduled downtime
17:13.16pooliomafm: so svn on sf.net is down?
17:15.01mafmread-only, they are migrating to a new datacenter, it seems
17:19.55mafmpoolio: http://sourceforge.net/community/forum/topic.php?id=2874&page
17:51.17brlcadwb andrecastelo
17:51.50brlcadandrecastelo: any new progress, working on depth-based lighting or shadows next?
17:52.08brlcadmafm: sourceforge svn is down for the next 6 hours or so
17:52.23brlcadsourceforge is moving svn to their new datacenter in chicago today
17:52.26andrecasteloi was thinking about starting some kind of prototype path tracing system, what do you think?
17:52.32mafm>:[
17:52.47mafmso no more commits today, now that I have lots and lots of new things
17:53.13brlcadmafm: yeah, I didn't realize it was today or I would have sent out a note
17:58.14andrecastelodo you think i should improve the shading or start the path building??
17:58.52brlcadI think you should do at least shadows just so you see how to shoot secondary rays
18:10.20andrecastelohm ok, ok
18:10.28mafmI received some random crap from sf.net yesterday but I didn't even bother to read it
18:10.37mafmtoo much mail :|
18:10.48andrecastelohave classes now
18:10.52andrecastelolater guys
18:11.15pacman87mafm: that's why i switched the gsoc mail to 'digest'
18:11.35mafmthe gsoc I read in less than 30 seconds
18:12.26mafmbasically I click next next next and read the subject in the split second :)
18:12.54pacman87it'd be nice if i could flag the mail from LH and other official google people
18:13.01pacman87to make sure i dont' miss anything important
18:13.18mafmit's no so easy with other mails that I have to reply... but yes, gsoc lists are annoying :D
18:14.19pacman87i treat it as a forum instead of a mailing list
18:18.47mafmI basically don't read anything
18:19.01mafmjust the initial mail of the thread if it's from LH
18:19.18mafmand then only some specific if it interests me
18:32.38``Erik%*d? when did that happen? O.o
18:33.02pacman87``Erik: hmmm?
18:34.44``Erikprintf("%*d", x, y);
18:44.50mafmneat-o
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18:56.15mafmhi Ralith
19:06.23Ralithoh hey!
19:06.36Ralithneeds to make his irssi highlight better.
19:08.11Ralithmafm: I, along with at least part of the reprap community, am quite interested in your GUI work; myself to the extent of a desire to contribute.
19:09.34mafmyep, brlcad told me a bit about it
19:09.55Ralithcool
19:10.24mafmthat's the reprap of http://reprap.org/bin/view/Main/WebHome ?
19:10.27Ralithyeah
19:12.01mafmthat's an interface for a 3D printer?
19:12.58Ralithit *is* a 3D printer.
19:13.44mafm:D
19:14.05mafmneat
19:14.14mafmand what does my project have to do with that?
19:15.24mafmare you already using BRL-CAD to design it or something?
19:15.27Ralithwell, I'll give a bit of background
19:15.59mafmplease :)
19:16.01Ralithreprap is supposed to be completely open source
19:16.17Ralithso we can't standardize on professional CAD packages
19:16.29Ralith(there's very good reasons for this which aren't entirely relevant; we can get into that later)
19:16.59Ralithcurrently, we're standardized on this kinda shitty java mesh modeler called Art of Illusion that afaik nobody likes much.
19:17.36Ralithhowever, there's no argument that that's really a good tool for CAD/CAM
19:18.00Ralithit's just something like the first oss modeler that the founders ran into
19:18.20Ralithnow lately, people have been hitting its limitations and starting to search for alternatives
19:18.54Ralithbut, as you may or may not be aware, there really aren't any open source CAD tools worth mentioning; let alone professional quality ones.
19:19.00RalithExcept for BRL-CAD.
19:19.20mafmnot even k-3d?
19:19.50Ralithk-3d states from the start that it's meant for animation :P
19:20.21RalithBRL-CAD has the additional advantage of its purist CSG approach, which is great because of the level of precision it maintains.
19:21.04Ralithto put this in perspective, AoI is so inappropriate that the founders actually modeled some of the current reprap design using professional CAD tools isntead, and just exported to an open format.
19:21.14RalithSTL
19:21.28Ralithwhich is another bad choice, because conversion to trimeshes loses precision.
19:21.49mafmI thought that they had added (or wanted to, maybe it was some gsoc project) to get into other modelling, but I know mostly zero about that so I shut up :D
19:22.11Ralithwell, we want something as professional quality as we can get
19:22.31Ralithand BRL-CAD seems to be nothing if not professional.
19:22.43Ralithhowever, its interface is very tangibly from the 1980s.
19:23.03Ralithone of reprap's goals is to be widely and easily accessible.
19:23.33RalithStandardization on a CAD suite with such an arcane modeling interface would conflict with that.
19:23.43Ralithas attractive as the technology behind the interface may be.
19:24.27RalithSo, your SoC project seems to be the solution to all our worries.
19:25.03mafmgoody :D
19:25.21Ralithespecially since, imo, a tried and true back-end with a newly developed interface is much more suitable than a tried-and-true interface with newly developed CAD support.
19:25.24mafmI'm very glad to hear that it can be helpful for you
19:25.30Ralithbesides, you don't get much more tried-and-true than BRL-CAD.
19:25.41Ralithfar more than us, I'm sure
19:26.10Raliththere's a *lot* of people out there who would benefit from professional and accessible open source CAD.
19:26.15mafmdid you already try it? it's in very initial state...
19:26.26RalithI haven't built it yet
19:26.31Ralithbut I've reviewed your log
19:27.25mafm:D
19:27.57mafmwell, if you have some sort of GNU/Linux (or even BSD) variant, should be quick easy to get it running
19:27.57RalithI'm quite eager to lend whatever aid I can.
19:28.02*** join/#brlcad philipix (n=c91adbe1@bz.bzflag.bz)
19:28.02RalithI'm on FreeBSD
19:28.21Ralithluckily, the larger of your deps are in ports
19:28.53mafmI think that you mostly need some image library like DevIL
19:29.00Raliththat'll be in ports too.
19:29.05RalithI was talking about ois and ogre
19:29.24RalithI'll be submitting a patch for ois freebsd compatibility despite this
19:29.58mafm$ aptitude show libogre-dev
19:29.59mafm...
19:30.07Ralith?
19:30.08mafmDepends: libfreeimage-dev | libdevil-dev, libfreetype6-dev, libogremain-1.4.6 (>= 1.4.6.dfsg1-1), libopenexr-dev,
19:30.08mafm<PROTECTED>
19:30.34Ralithdeps are not an issue :P
19:30.37mafmI think that these are the only dependencies needed, apart from std C++ things
19:30.38Ralithat least, I don't think so
19:30.47brlcadRalith: interesting background interest
19:31.01RalithI haven't tried building your versions of rbgui or mocha yet
19:31.04Ralithbrlcad: I think so.
19:31.10mafmand apart from that, the rest of the things that you need is just contained in src/other :D
19:32.26brlcadRalith: if you're interested in our long-term project goals, I wrote up an overly wordy document that you might find interesting .. it's being completely restructured and reworded, but it captures a fair bit even with the layout/temp state that it's in
19:32.39Ralithbrlcad: I would be interested in that.
19:33.01mafmI think that RBGui and Mocha don't depend on anything but standard C++ libraries
19:33.33Ralithyeah, but you never know
19:33.43Ralithbesides, what you think is standard is often moved around in FreeBSD
19:33.57mafmoh, you need pkg-config too
19:34.03mafmis fan of pkg-config :P
19:34.03Ralithwho doesn't have pkg-config?
19:34.07brlcadRalith: http://brlcad.org/~sean/BRL-CAD_Priorities.png  (there's a .pdf too, but many renderers do a horrible job on the fonts it's using)
19:34.23mafmwell, I had an argument with postgresql guys a while ago, they're not so fans of it :D
19:34.45Ralithoo, neat layout
19:34.52brlcadagain, not really intended for public consumption as it's going to change a fair bit, but it's the high-high-level project overview of what I'm trying to focus on
19:35.22Ralithby the way, I've been curious: you're the maintainer, right? Just how did you end up as such?
19:36.33brlcaddedication, years of keeping the flame alive
19:36.54brlcadI really do love working on BRL-CAD -- it has so much potential and so much existing powerful functionality
19:37.35brlcadjust not-so-great usability for the newcomer, hence the focus on gui enhancements, brep (for visualization), and open source
19:39.33mafmand weeks of wasting time talking with prospective gsocers
19:39.40mafm:P
19:39.42Ralithhehe
19:40.10Ralithdid you have anything to do with it when it was still proprietary?
19:40.48mafmwarns: if SourceForge doesn't reenable commits now, you're all going to miss my wonderful new Blender mode... SF, we're watching you
19:41.03RalithBlender mode?
19:41.10Ralithcamera control?
19:41.13mafmyep
19:41.15Ralithoo, fun
19:41.19mafm<PROTECTED>
19:41.19mafm1046
19:41.20Ralithblender has good camera control
19:41.41Ralithlearned mesh modeling in blender
19:41.55mafmjust that I'm making it "continuous"
19:42.13RalithI'm not sure what that means
19:42.27mafmunless somebody has something against, I think that it's more practical and easier to implement :D
19:42.48mafmthat instead of jumping 30 degrees when you click the numpad keys, it does so in a continuous way
19:43.04mafmturning slowly while you maintain the key pressed
19:43.15Ralithhm
19:43.25Ralithwell, first, an interface design thought
19:43.45Ralithfor all inputs that produce continuous movement, make it be *accelerated*, not constant rate of change.
19:43.52Raliththis is extremely useful since scale can vary so much
19:44.11Ralithmakes it easy to quickly achieve the state that is desired, no matter how numerically distant it is from the current one
19:44.43Ralithfor example, I recently implemented a spinner widget for a GUI project I'm on that does this in all cases; imo it's just that useful.
19:44.59RalithI can't think of a case where it *wouldn't* be helpful.
19:45.31Ralithof course, one must be careful to keep the acceleration from being too sharp, else there's not enough control.
19:45.31mafmthe zoom already works like this
19:45.35Ralithgreat!
19:45.39mafmit has an increment ratio
19:45.47Ralithoh yeah, promise me you'll rip off blender's grid system
19:45.53RalithI *love* blender's grids
19:46.40Ralith(except don't bother implementing blender's upper and lower limits to grid size; I can't imagine why you'd want those)
19:46.43mafmand I hate the linear spinners too :D
19:46.47Ralith:D
19:47.04Ralithand now a more direct response
19:47.13Ralithblender uses fixed increments for a good reason imo
19:47.21Ralithit allows one to easily go to a specific perspective
19:47.22mafmwell, I don't have almost any experience modeling, so I don't know what would be useful and what not
19:47.36mafmI largely follow orders/ideas/suggestions :D
19:47.48RalithI've got moderate experience; I'm not a real modeler, but I've done a lot of experimentation and produced some not entirely boring works.
19:48.08RalithI've got enough experience to know that blender does a lot of things right.
19:48.46mafm:)
19:49.05Ralithso if you're using that as a template for some parts, that's a good sign, imo
19:49.19pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/explode.avi
19:49.20mafmthis part is only the camera mode, which with some keys it orbits the object, with mouse drag rotates around freely
19:49.31mafmprobably you'll have more requests in the near future :)
19:49.37Ralithmafm: define 'the object'
19:49.43Ralithsure you don't mean the origin?
19:50.06mafmat the moment it is, but eventually it'll pan :D
19:50.23RalithI suggest a blender-style 'center camera at point' command
19:50.44Ralithalso, 'center camera at selected object(s)'s origin'
19:50.59mafmI still only with camera modes this week, or the last day of the past one :)
19:51.11Raliththat plus orbit-style movement plus optional drawing of objects would probably cover most use cases already
19:52.08Ralithanyway, if you want to go for continuous camera movement, that's cool, but maybe you should include a toggle button or a keyboard bind for incremental movements of various fractions of 90 degrees?
19:52.18mafmthe center on object is just a matter of setting the object as focused
19:52.35mafmI initially thought of that but it was half implemented, so I removed the little code
19:52.48mafmbut it's easy to read when I know exactly what we want to do
19:52.57Ralithll
19:52.58Ralithkk
19:53.34mafmmaybe I'll just keep orbital mode as blender-like but continous, and blender as exactly blender
19:53.43Ralithalso, my OIS patch is ready -- where's the best place for it?
19:53.49pacman87anyone here used davfs2?
19:54.18mafmI'm just implementing functionality at this moment, defining bindings it's mostly a detail when infrastructure is in place :)
19:54.29mafmpacman87: no
19:54.35Ralithmafm: ooh, here's a neat idea for non-priority implementation that'll make continuous (and imprecise) movement useful: allow save/restore of multiple camera positions
19:54.58Ralithenjoys coming up with features
19:55.05Ralithput up with me long and your TODO list will double :>
19:55.25mafmRalith: the patch maybe you could send to OIS guys themselves... IIRC the main devel lurks around in #ogre3d and the nickname starts with p :)
19:55.40mafmand we would have to apply it for it to work in src/other, too
19:55.51Ralithmafm: it's an inelegant patch that references your build system
19:56.15Ralithappropriate for making things work, but not so much for upstream application
19:56.25RalithI've #ifdef'd out three whole files :P
19:56.46Ralith(only has any effect on FreeBSD, of course)
19:56.53mafmhttp://rafb.net/paste, please?
19:56.56Ralithsure
19:57.10mafmwhat's the error in BSD (and the compiler?)
19:57.33Ralithit's just the removal of linux-specific stuff
19:58.09Ralithhttp://rafb.net/p/Jz5kv519.html
19:58.45Ralithoh, and some X input handling stuff I'm not sure I follow, but which was used in the ports version.
19:59.33mafmhuh... I think you need those linux files, because AFAIK they call linux to whatever using X.org
19:59.42Ralithhuh?
20:00.00Raliththese files are cut straight out of the build process by the ports version
20:00.03Raliththey're not critical at all.
20:00.34Ralithnote that only the first three effected files are completely #ifdef'd out
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20:02.19mafmwell, I'm not sure, whatever works for you :)
20:02.49Raliththe patch has no effect on non-FreeBSD anyway
20:02.58mafmbut I guess that you could try to refine it and send it upstream, and then we can upload whatever new version to OIS -- new versions of OIS shouldn't break anything
20:03.57Ralithhm. I don't suppose you're familiar with pthreads?
20:05.02mafmnot much, only generically with threads, but also not very very deeply :D
20:05.14Ralithhm.
20:05.14mafmsvn: Server sent unexpected return value (403 Forbidden) in response to MKACTIVITY request for '/svnroot/brlcad/!svn/act/6f51664b-be0d-4203-96a0-6a780e9db359' -- OK, so no more work today :)
20:05.25Ralithaw.
20:06.02mafmI have to go home anyway, it's already night here :)
20:07.29Ralithalright, seeya
20:07.39mafmI'll commit in ~14 hours or so, I guess :)
20:07.46``Erikknown issue, they're migrating their server from cali to chicago
20:07.54``Erikso read only
20:07.57Ralithbrlcad: I don't think you answered -- did you have anything to do with it when it was still  proprietary?
20:08.03Ralith(brlcad)
20:08.07Ralith(er, BRL-CAD)
20:08.39mafmRalith: I look forward to get it working, you'll be the second after other gsocer homovulgaris :)
20:08.40``Erikbrlcad has been working on BRL-CAD for almost a decade I think? long before it went out to the public
20:08.42mafmsee you
20:08.51Ralithoo, neat
20:09.00Ralithseeya
20:09.11Ralithfixing up mocha now
20:09.20``Erik(you could kinda argue it was always open source, you had to fax in a license agreement, then got an encrypted tarball of the source sent to you... wasn't redistributable back then, though)
20:09.22``Erik:D
20:09.27Raliththis one *will* be upstream-worthy
20:09.57Ralith``Erik: any idea how much brl-cad is used professionally these days, if at all?
20:10.05Ralithalso, any idea what brought about the opensourcing?
20:12.05``Erikum, several people at ARL and survice are paid to use BRL-CAD, I think beoing uses it some, air force uses it a bit, probably many others
20:12.17brlcadRalith: yes, I've worked on BRL-CAD for about 10 years now, long before it was open source
20:12.38``Erikand we're a bunch of open source geeks who got enough gumption to push it through the beaurocracy to get it 'public release' status
20:12.46``Erikrather, brlcad and butler pushed it... :)
20:12.46Ralithcool!
20:12.56Ralithmany kudos to them, then
20:13.00brlcadI worked persistently for about 5 years to get BRL-CAD released as open source, it was one of two goals I had from the start
20:13.13Raliththat must have taken a lot of pushing
20:13.40Ralithare you being employed as brl-cad's maintainer, or is it something you do on your own?
20:16.40brlcadRalith: best place for patch is our sf.net patches tracker  (reading backlog)
20:16.50Ralithkk
20:28.26Ralithuploaded
20:57.53Ralithaugh
20:57.55Ralithso close
20:58.13Ralithrbgui refers to some ogre func that's missing in the more recent version I have installed
21:05.19Ralithtemp-workarounds by building the rt^3 version of ogre
21:05.46Ralith...which fails. >:|
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21:52.26pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_rt15.png & https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_wf06.png
21:52.43pacman87wireframe upgrades for open sketches
21:53.05pacman87now includes the lines that i added to close the sketch
21:54.59Ralithoo
21:55.03Ralithnow just make that work for all primitives :>
21:55.34pacman87Ralith: hmm?
21:55.43Ralithor wait
21:55.47Ralithwrong person
21:55.47pacman87revolve takes in an arbitrary sketch
21:55.51Ralithall you p named people >:|
21:56.10Ralithanyway, looking nice!
21:56.15pacman87ty
21:56.25Ralithcan you define smooth curves in the sketch?
21:56.30Ralithor is it point-line only?
21:56.48pacman87yes, lines, carc, bezier, and nurbs
21:56.59pacman87though lines are the only ones working now
21:57.20Ralithso long as it's coming
21:59.43poolioRalith: *achem*
22:00.06starseekeryay!
22:00.18starseekercan now parse core-001a.s into pieces
22:00.45Ralithpoolio: sup
22:00.47Ralith:]
22:27.22brlcadRalith: sorry, disappeared at 16:16 -- to answer your question -- it's something I predominantly do on my own, though I am (also) employed to work on BRL-CAD
22:27.43Ralithkk
22:27.50Ralithsounds pretty nice
22:29.03brlcadstarseeker: nifty, using % parsing?
22:31.43starseekernot really (yet) - just a string with 4 key characters
22:31.47brlcadpacman87: interesting .. I think that's the first primitive that has a "self-intersecting" wireframe other than an invalid nmg/bot
22:32.10starseekernot sure if there is a reason to allow anything other than those 4, and if so % is not needed
22:33.25pacman87i'd probably look better with a circular arc at the sketch's self-intersection point, but i'm not sure if that's worth the extra computation to find the intersection points
22:33.25brlcad"those four" being?
22:34.09brlcadfor polyline/ployline, computing self-intersections is trivial :)
22:34.32brlcadnurbs-nurbs is probably the hardest
22:35.03starseekern is for name substrings, i is for incremented regions, s is for separators, and e is for extension
22:35.20starseekerso core-001a.s would be nsinse
22:38.24brlcadhow do you control how much padding?
22:38.41starseekeryou mean 001 vs 01?
22:39.17brlcadsure
22:40.07starseekerThat has to be a function of how many are ultimately needed to pad out to the maximum requested by the calling command - the larger of the supplied default (3 if in the core example you only wanted 10) or the minimum required by the maximum case (say, 5 if you wanted 10000)
22:41.12starseekeris currently trying to figure out how to use itoa to coax a string length out of a supplied integer
22:41.31brlcadwithholds comments until he's let the brain enfeed some dinner
22:51.38``Erik/nick p``Erik
22:57.14PrezKennedygolden corral!
22:58.32pacman87brlcad: i wouldn't really expect too many sketches to be self-intersecting, anyway
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23:09.34``Erikheh, old people food? :D
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23:57.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31850 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/namegen.c:
23:57.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: Upload (very) early stage work for functions intended to provide consistent
23:57.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: automatic naming for tools that need it. Currently working on parsing a
23:57.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: supplied primitive name into components based on a format string - routines will
23:57.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: probably need to become more general.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080717

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080717

00:11.46CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31851 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c: upgrade revolve's wireframe to show lines added to close open sketches
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00:54.31jonoredSo, I've been trying for a while and not managing to work out how to invoke an external editor on a temporary file and read the revised file back with tcl in mged... I seem to have it either manage reading the file back, or invoking vim, not both. It seems like nothing after the external command gets run. Am I misunderstanding exec / is there a wait command I should be using?
00:57.38pacman87...bash doesnt do so well parsing mged commands :(
00:59.26jonored...? I'm using open, puts, etc. to write to a file in /tmp, then "exec xterm -e vim <tempfile>", then trying to read it back in the same way I wrote it...
01:00.15pacman87jonored: can you use g2asc and asc2g instead?
01:02.01jonoredI'm trying to write myself a command similar to ted for attributes.
01:06.20pacman87wireframes look good for (-) sided sketches, (-1,-1) to (1,1) : https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_wf07.png
01:06.44pacman87shot() still needs logic work
01:21.14CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31852 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c: rearrange plot() to avoid a second calloc(), and remember to free allocated memory
01:27.53pacman87wishes his first programming class wasn't in java - bad memory management habits
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02:58.54CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31853 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/namegen.c: Moved declarations to the beginning of the parse_obj_name() function.
03:00.41CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31854 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc9/librt/librt.vcproj: Added librt/namegen.c to the MSVC 9 build.
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03:58.20starseeker_scowls at comcast
03:59.32pooliostarseeker_: I was out for ~6hours today
03:59.50starseeker_It doesn't like my ssh connection to bz
04:00.12starseeker_slow, and keeps getting reset - wonder if they're doing some *ahem* traffic management
04:01.12Axman6didn't the FCC just get pissed at comcast for doing that?
04:01.27Ralithyep
04:01.31Ralithstarseeker_: they do that for me, too :/
04:02.23starseeker_grr
04:04.46starseeker_wants verizon fios...
04:05.24poolioHmm, I might have to hack mged's WM_NAME
04:05.26poolioIt's making my WM unhappy
04:07.16poolioAh there we go....Toplevel worked.
04:07.30pooliostarseeker_: Isn't FIOS similarly priced to comcast?
04:08.35Ralithpoolio: not available most places
04:10.19starseeker_dunno.  Doubt this particular apartment would support it - it was hard enough to get cable here
04:38.55andre|away_hey starseeker_, i added librt/namegen.c to the msvc9 build, is there a problem?
04:39.37starseeker_uh, that's not ready
04:39.43starseeker_or functional
04:40.24starseeker_I'd recommend ignoring it until something actually uses it
04:41.00andre|away_hm sounds better
05:07.34CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31855 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc9/librt/librt.vcproj: Removed namegen.c from librt.vcproj until it's used by something.
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09:13.21mafmhi
09:58.26brlcadhowdy mafm
10:00.33mafmhappier than usual
10:00.40mafmnow I must devote to my fans \o/
10:01.20brlcadhehe
10:01.41*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
10:03.23mafmsending a patch of 1043 lines...
10:03.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31856 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (7 files):
10:03.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: Many pending commits due to SourceForge downtime, cannot be separated now:
10:03.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: Important increase in functionality of CameraMode base class to allow for the
10:03.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: now more complex derived camera modes, including managing their own input
10:03.39CIA-22BRL-CAD: bindings; implemented Blender camera mode including mouse drag mode for free
10:03.42CIA-22BRL-CAD: camera rotations; fixed parts of input handling which were still immature
10:03.44CIA-22BRL-CAD: (traping events when they shouldn't, etc).
10:04.12mafmdone.
10:04.25brlcadbets some separation could have occurred, but good enough
10:04.43mafmbtw, what happened with the feedback of middle term evaluation?
10:05.16brlcadi'm going down the list, some have happened, some still to go
10:05.49mafmhmm, it's because it was intermixed: the application main input handlers inject cameramanager with input, then it feed the active camera mode; which has also the new camera modes; etc
10:12.30mafmand mostly I didn't bother because probably the code is to be changed massively anyway :D
10:19.30brlcadhence the good enough
10:20.09brlcadthere's almost always some way to break things up, it's one of the things I do rather frequently/well ;)
10:20.48brlcadthe message is still informative and concise
10:21.01brlcadso nbd
10:21.38mafmabout the acount in brlcad?
10:22.14mafmwhat was the missing part, state explicitly to accept the conditions
10:23.36brlcadyep
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11:20.26Axman6http://yaws.hyber.org/contact.yaws
11:20.29Axman6whoops
11:42.44CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31857 10/brlcad/trunk/ (29 files in 4 dirs):
11:42.44CIA-22BRL-CAD: Added the following commands to libged: isize, keypoint, lookat, m2v_point,
11:42.44CIA-22BRL-CAD: model2view, orient, perspective, pmat, pmodel2view, pov, rmat, rot_point,
11:42.44CIA-22BRL-CAD: rotate_about, scale, setview, v2m_point, view2model, viewdir, c, cat, color and
11:42.44CIA-22BRL-CAD: prcolor.
11:58.01CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31858 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (perspective.c rmat.c): Initial check-in.
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12:06.25starseeker_scolds the European Union politicians for more silly copyright ideas
12:06.38starseeker_(not that ours don't have plenty...)
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13:12.00mafmhi again
13:12.11mafmnetwork outages down here :S
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13:51.31thing1*ywan*
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14:46.47mafmbrlcad: internal classes a no-no?
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15:28.12CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31859 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/raytrace.h src/libpc/pc_test.c): Modification to pc_param and pc_constrnt structs in particular removal of character arrays and usage of bu_vls for supporting expression of the form "radius=3.24" for parameters and "radius*centre.x=4.0" for constraints
15:30.10``Erikbrlcad: your team leader is taking abuse for your slides, save him! :D also; I has me a couple shiney new sun machines
15:39.02CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31860 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/pc.h src/libpc/pc_main.c):
15:39.02CIA-22BRL-CAD: modification of macros to initiate the bu_vls struct added to pc_param and
15:39.02CIA-22BRL-CAD: pc_constrnt; definition of pc_free_pcset, pc_pushparameter and pc_pushconstraint
15:39.02CIA-22BRL-CAD: functions for adding parameters and constraints to pc_pc_set using a simple
15:39.02CIA-22BRL-CAD: string expression
15:49.10CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31861 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraModes.cxx CameraModes.h): Basically completing Blender camera mode, and factoring out more functionality in the base class (now basically the different modes act only on input, defining the bindings)
16:06.49CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31862 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/solver_test.cpp: quasi-detailed definition of constraint and variable expression grammars, and testing the usage of bu_vls for passing information to the Parser object
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16:14.42CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31863 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcParser.h: quasi-detailed definition of constraint and variable expression grammars, and testing the usage of bu_vls for passing information to the Parser object. sorry about 31862 accidental -m
16:21.22CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31864 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (Makefile.am pc_constraint.h pc_solver.cpp): Removal of obsolete/empty files
16:37.12CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31865 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraModes.cxx CameraModes.h): Adjustments to the implementation for better compliance and maintainability, and copying better Blender mode.
16:42.42brlcadmafm: why do you ask?
16:58.21mafmI created one Vector3 :P
17:01.10``Erikheh, starseeker, http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/28-(Around-Going).aspx
17:02.27starseekerHeh
17:03.27jonoredOif.
17:03.34brlcadmafm: ah, well in general I would have said it's fine -- for that one, for vector/matrix structures, it should probably use what is already provided
17:04.14mafmI just want to hold together 3 floats, no operations
17:04.33brlcadyou hadn't had the need yet so I hadn't said much, but you should utilize the mainline brl-cad libs when they have functionality you need (libbu, libbn, librt in particular)
17:04.47mafmhttp://rafb.net/p/Zm93t624.html
17:05.50``Erikhum, how is that, uh, different than, say, the vector in vmath.h ? :D
17:05.53mafmI was considering using Ogre::Vector3 because it's going to be assigned as such, eventually
17:06.11mafmwhat's vmath.h?
17:06.23``Erikfile in brlcad's include dir
17:06.39brlcaddon't really want to expose ogre's data types, encapsulated at best, avoided if possible
17:07.23``Erik(is BRL-CAD not a requirement for the new rt^3 shtuff?)
17:07.23brlcadvmath.h is part of libbn, vect_t is basically the same as your Vector3
17:07.53mafm``Erik: it would be eventually, but not yet
17:08.28brlcadwhy "not yet" .. sounds like you have a need now ;)
17:09.30mafmwell, after I finish with cameras the main thing left is to use the remote library, so it would be needed soon enough
17:10.26brlcadremember that the (only) reason you're off in a different directly is for language/api separation, that doesn't mean it shouldn't utilize what it would have available if it were in brlcad/src/g3d
17:10.27mafmand by "no yet" I just mean that I don't use it
17:11.03mafmwell, but apart from PI_NUMBER, it's the first thing that I feel need for
17:11.18mafmnot that I don't want to use anything from BRL-CAD, is that I didn't need it yet :D
17:14.52Ralithother than vect_t.
17:15.54mafmthat emerged just now, it doesn't count :P
17:17.56brlcadmafm: sure, and it's not a huge deal for a tiny Vector3 class .. but even that lil snippet becomes dead/wrong code that has to get fixed eventually -- less cost if dealt with early
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17:26.43mafmI already put a doxygen \todo, but anyway after I make the shift-grips mode (and I guess that it would take about 1 day) I'll start to look into using the geometry service
17:27.17mafmbtw I don't know if tomorrow I'm going to be available because they need to exchange router and many things in the network
17:27.26brlcadlibged at this point, not via the service
17:27.36brlcadbut cool either way
17:27.38Ralithmafm: I'm pretty sure you don't even need to link with anything in this case.
17:27.43mafmbut if not, it would be by the beginning of next week
17:28.16mafmdoesn't libged incoporate the remote service?
17:28.34brlcadthe service sits on top of libged
17:29.00mafmand libged doesn't include network abstractions yet?
17:29.23brlcadbut the service isn't ready for use just yet (the dev is still documenting and sorting out protocol issues)
17:30.04brlcadlibged won't have any network abstractions, you or me or someone would have to work on that now if you wanted to make it entirely abstracted from the start
17:30.35brlcadlibged is basic geometry management, editing, querying .. at a command level ala mged's command line
17:30.52brlcadwhere commands like ged_e() give you wireframe data for a given object, for example
17:31.41brlcadthat is supposed to sit underneath the geometry engine, which frankly doesn't exist yet (at least not in C++)
17:32.02brlcadand the geometry service makes the engine available through a port protocol interface (ala mysqld for example)
17:33.38brlcadthere has been a dev working for several months on that layer as well as several working on the libged layer, so it's all starting to come together
17:34.22mafm"the geometry engine, which frankly doesn't exist yet (at least not in C++)" -- if it communicates via sockets, why does the language matters?
17:35.58Ralithmafm: because, at least ideally, the project includes production of a straightforward client lib so you don't have to manage the network bits yourself.
17:36.22brlcadthe geometry engine is just an API, the geometry service provides the communication layer
17:36.55brlcaddifference between libmysql and mysqld
17:37.44mafmbut unless the library is written in tcl, C++ can use the C libraries directly... :)
17:39.09brlcadwhich is why I said you could start by simply hooking into libged for now (just so you have commands that you could issue on the command line and access to display list data for geometry)
17:39.18``Erikrewrites the library in bf
17:40.26brlcadthe engine itself is specifically a project in providing an OO C++ geometry processing layer similar to the ACIS or Granite engines, wrapping up our geometry processing facilities in libbu, libbn, libwdb, librt, and libged
17:41.30mafmso there's no "library geometry service" yet, not even in C... I though that libged would include support for this
17:42.02mafmanyway, I'll use that
17:42.44brlcadno, libged's job is very simply "perform this geometry command"
17:43.00brlcadmassive refactoring of most of mged's command functionality into a library
17:44.07brlcadwhich amounts to moving and reworking about 100k lines of code
17:45.00brlcadbob's about 40% done from the looks of it (after about two months of effort) so it won't be fully complete for at least two or three more
17:45.13brlcadnot that he needs to be complete for it to be functional, it should be usable now
17:46.10brlcadgoing on in parallel are the engine bits and the service bits
17:47.35brlcadRalith: did someone review/apply your patch yet?
17:47.51Ralithuh, lemme check
17:48.13brlcadalso, was it posted to the patches tracker or just in here?
17:48.28Ralithappears to not have been reviewed
17:48.30Ralithhttp://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2019951&group_id=105292&atid=640804
17:48.53Ralithalso needs to upload his mocha patch
17:49.09brlcadk
17:51.11mafmdid you submit it to OIS guys as well?
17:52.51Ralithlike I said, I'm not sure it's entirely appropriate for upstream use; it's the sort of thing that really should be done in the build system, but I really have no idea how to do target-conditional config in autotools.
17:53.04Raliththe mocha patch, however, I have sent upstream
17:53.42Raliththe most that can be said for the ois patch is it's clean and it works.
17:55.08mafmwell, OIS guys should be able to test if it's safe in other linux systems
17:55.28mafmbtw, how did you contact mocha/rbgui guys? I couldn't contact them
17:56.01RalithI would be very, very surprised if this broke other systems.
17:56.06RalithTheir website has a contact form :P
17:56.28mafmhuh
17:58.20mafmwhere's that? I can't see it
17:58.26Ralithhttp://rightbraingames.com/contact.php
17:58.44mafm:S
17:59.10mafmhow did you get there? their main website is a fedora apache welcome site
17:59.22Ralithgoogle
17:59.33mafmyou can enter via /tech/ but I cannot see that form from there
18:00.04Ralithheh, that's a completely different website
18:00.09mafmForbidden
18:00.10mafmYou don't have permission to access /contact.php
18:00.28brlcadRalith: not that I like their approach, but did you see: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1835815&group_id=149835&atid=775955
18:02.01brlcadfound after the reference in this thread: http://www.wreckedgames.com/forum/index.php/topic,115.0.html
18:02.10mafmyou also can see more info from them in this site, but their forums look like quite dead :)  http://www.rightbraingames.com/tech/node/40
18:03.59Ralithbrlcad: hm, SDL is a pretty big dep, and I don't see anything in this patch about removing the linux-specific code that was the problem in the first place
18:04.43Raliththere is some mention about what may be a drop-in replacement from SDL, though
18:04.44brlcadRalith: yeah, that's why I didn't like it .. don't really want (or see a need for) the sdl dep just for input
18:04.53Raliththe only difference is joystick support
18:05.09RalithSDL *may* provide it, whereas my patch will not.
18:05.16brlcadespecially given they've already taken care of windows, linux, and are working on mac
18:05.23brlcadsdl does provide joystick support
18:05.27Ralithon FreeBSD?
18:05.30RalithI'm not sure that's even possible.
18:05.43``ErikI think it does, though the fbsd joystick interface changed a few years ago
18:05.43Ralithlinux seems to have had to go out of its way to.
18:06.01brlcaderm, haven't tested it, but it certainly compiles our sdl joystick interface for bzflag
18:06.24``Erikcouldn't get his usb joystick to work with fbsd when he tried it, thinks it was due to a gimpy usb card
18:06.28mafmhmm, but is it also the mouse, apart from the joystick?
18:06.45Ralithmafm: the mouse is handled completely differently.
18:06.54RalithI'm sure my patch leaves that intact.
18:06.55brlcadno, they provide separate events and require different processing styles
18:07.24mafmdoesn't X.org abstract that part?
18:07.38RalithX doesn't touch joysticks afaik
18:07.52mafmI mean the mouse part
18:07.57Ralithwhat mous epart
18:08.18mafmyou modify LinuxMouse too
18:08.21``Erikheh http://lgdc.sunsite.dk/articles/19.html :D
18:08.29Ralithyeah
18:08.58Raliththat's taken from the patch in ports
18:09.17Ralithit looks like it should work fine on any platform
18:09.31Raliththough if someone could test it out on linux that would be good
18:10.03Ralith``Erik: linux 2.0. and 2.2.? :P
18:10.09``Erikyeah, from 2000, dude
18:10.25mafmdon't they have a description about why is the patch necessary at all?
18:10.45Ralith``Erik: hm, I guess FreeBSD does support it.
18:11.05Ralithdoes it matter enough that I should put together a nice clean patch w/ proper joystick support?
18:11.09Ralith(which may be nontrivial)
18:12.41mafmI'd say that, whatever you might do, it's preferable to have it uptream when possible
18:12.55Ralithwell, it's not going upstream without real support
18:13.03RalithI'm not even going to try to pitch a quick fix like this :P
18:13.21mafmI was talking mostly about the mouse one of netbsd
18:13.57mafmit doesn't seem like that it's for API issues or something, but because they want to process things in different orders
18:14.16RalithI'm not even sure that's necessary; it would require testing that's beyond my current means.
18:14.33RalithI'd have to cobble together some sort of OIS app
18:15.15mafmdid you try to use OIS without the changes to the mouse file?
18:15.38mafmor does it everything come in the same patch in freebsd, or what?
18:15.42Ralithlike I said, I have no way to 'try' OIS.
18:15.54Ralithand the freebsd version of OIS uses that patch, yes.
18:17.11mafmhttp://www.wreckedgames.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=115.0
18:17.31mafm"Probably would be best to create a seperate BSDInputManager than trying to hack it into the LinuxInputManager, can share the Keyboard and Mouse classes just need to make the JoyStick classes."
18:17.53mafmI think that it's the best solution
18:18.00RalithI'm sure it is
18:18.13mafmwithout creating the joysticks at the moment
18:18.14Ralithmy patch, however, should give us a working OIS in the meantime
18:19.40mafmwell, that's fine... but I want you to understand me... I don't even like the idea of having libraries in src/other :P
18:19.54mafmmuch less to start maintaining private patches for them
18:20.04Ralithbrlcad's goal of a simple, unified, build system that *just works* is laudable.
18:20.11Ralithsuch a system inevitably requires local hacks.
18:20.57mafmprobably we'll have to do that for mocha and rbgui inevitably, and I'm even thinking about forking them and maintaining them separately...
18:21.21Raliththat reminds me
18:21.24Ralithjust why did you pick rbgui?
18:21.41mafmbecause I don't like CEGUI
18:21.47Ralithyou may not like it
18:21.50Ralithbut CEGUI has a community
18:21.57Ralithyou can rely on CEGUI not dissapearing and dying.
18:22.11Ralithrbgui, on the other hand, we can't even tell if it's maintained right now, let alone in the future.
18:23.04mafmaccording to brlcad's metric, they both would be about the same pain in the ass to maintain separately, if needed at all
18:23.12mafmso the choice didn't matter much :)
18:23.45Ralithwe don't want to maintain them separately.
18:23.54Ralithwe just want to make the build process simple.
18:24.03Raliththis is *easier* if somebody else is actually maintaining upstream
18:25.22Ralithusing libs where you can't get in contact with the authors or even confirm their continued existence is a bad idea, imo.
18:26.09mafmyep, but I have a plan to follow, and that happened relatively late :D
18:26.22Raliththat doesn't justify it :P
18:26.48Ralithwould it be helpful if I ported your existing work to CEGUI?
18:27.10*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
18:27.14mafmmaybe not for you, but for me it's most important until gsoc finished
18:27.23Ralithuh
18:27.26Ralithwas that a yes?
18:27.30Ralithbecause I'm happily offering my time here
18:27.52RalithI'm just interested in seeing this poject succeed
18:28.03brlcad``Erik: you might enjoy this read: http://www.gladwell.com/2004/2004_01_12_a_suv.html
18:28.07mafmit was a reply to "that doesn't justify it", not the second one :D
18:28.11Ralithusing questionable software is not a good start.
18:28.23Ralithah, heh
18:28.30*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
18:28.33Ralithwell, I'm offering a solution
18:28.42Ralithit won't mess up your schedule any if it's my problem :P
18:28.43mafmand I would mind you to switch to CEGUI before gsoc finishes, yess :P
18:29.00Ralithyou're saying that would be a problem?
18:29.31mafmyes, I would have to make windows in CEGUI and so on, and it's a PITA
18:29.58mafmI don't think that CEGUI is better than RBGui anyway :D
18:30.05Raliththat's not really debatable
18:30.22mafmbe right back
18:30.30RalithCEGUI is obviously and actively maintained by multiple developers who are easy to get ahold of
18:31.11RalithRBGui is pretty obscure, hosted on a hard-to-access website by developer(s) who might not even be around anymore, and has no community to speak of.
18:33.33brlcadwonders how much effort it would take to abstract the gui portion into just one or few classes such that the backend can be rbgui, cegui or whatever
18:33.44brlcadwithout replicating everything in that library of course
18:34.42RalithI think that would be more work to no particular gain; abstract we may, but in the end we'll just use a single one, and probably depend on unique features of it, even.
18:34.48mafmRalith: what if you notice that CEGUI is severely limited and they don't want to add your changes? :)
18:35.00brlcadRalith: in all fairness, looking at the various gui toolkits, most of them are so far away from providing the sorts of interaction styles I've had in mind that it *almost* doesn't matter which toolkit we go with -- it's going to be a fair bit of work on our part
18:35.01Ralithmafm: what changes?
18:35.31Ralithbrlcad: I'm not even looking at quality of library here; my issue with rbgui is simply that it's not visibly maintained.
18:35.52brlcadmafm: well in that case, if we really needed some change -- it's no different than rbgui -- we'd fork and move on
18:36.26RalithI suppose brlcad is of sufficient scope that doing that sort of thing really isn't out of the question.
18:36.32mafmbrlcad: I'd say that only Gui files have code which would depend on one or the other, except from some initial instantiation
18:36.42Ralithin which case rbgui may well be justifiable, if the way it does things is that much more convenient.
18:37.16mafmbrlcad: re:changes, it was speculation... but I feel the same as you do, any of is severely lacking
18:37.23brlcadRalith: understood, that part really sucks about it -- I know of about 3 or 4 commercial guis that are nearly *exactly* what I'd want for our gui, but then that's not helpful.. ;)
18:37.32Ralithhehe
18:38.16mafmand the point of using RBGui was mostly to play with it, since the alternative CEGUI is well known
18:38.25mafmat least rbgui feels more slick
18:38.41mafmand it has no external dependencies I think, so that also helps
18:38.52Ralithwell, there is mocha
18:38.58brlcadwhat I'm not going to be too compromising on is the features and interactions we need for a clean gui -- that's fairly custom as it is meaning we just need a framework that is functional enough to work in
18:39.04Ralithwhich seems like your token inhouse util lib
18:39.25Ralithif we're all but resigned to forking in the first place it's pretty moot.
18:39.27brlcadmafm: was it you that sent the link a day or two ago about the pango-based interface?
18:39.58brlcadRalith: yeah, i'm sure it was *exactly* that -- a simple little lib that was developed for their game's world editor or something and they've moved on
18:40.28brlcadi mean, not just mocha, but rbgui itself too
18:40.35Ralithbut if it's a good, usable, extensible lib, that's probably sufficient.
18:41.02RalithI mean, we should face it; we're going to have some pretty arcane GUI requirements in this editor sooner or later, and we'll have to implement those widgets or w/e ourselves anyway.
18:41.30Raliththe question is if we want to add that much more software to maintain
18:42.01brlcadi certainly don't want to fork and don't think it's a resolved issue .. but I don't think it's one that has to be resolved today either
18:42.01mafmbrlcad: yes
18:42.08mafm(wrt pango interface)
18:44.14mafmother than that, did you get things working, Ralith?
18:44.14Ralithnot really
18:44.15Ralithrbgui depends on a function inside ogre which is no longer there in the latest version.
18:44.17brlcadthe open source custom gui toolkit scene has been (and still is) teh suck .. it really is a shame that none of them are realy 'good'
18:44.43Ralithfriend of mine actually has a *really* cool GUI toolkit put together, but it's in D.
18:44.51mafmRalith: 1.4? you have to use either the one in src/other or trunk (but maybe it has their own problems)
18:44.58mafmits*
18:44.59Ralithmafm: 1.4.9
18:45.01brlcadRalith: I can say the one fairly fundamental problem I've had with cegui is their lack of vector support and scalable guis
18:45.10mafmtrunk as in... 1.7.something
18:45.23Ralithmafm: oh, we've backported stuff from their dev code?
18:45.33Ralithbrlcad: I'm sure it has plenty of problems, but it's active.
18:45.46mafmnot backported: using trunk directly :D
18:45.49brlcadI talked to the cegui devs a while back about it and they had it on their todo but said it was a huge task given how they currently do things, and not likely to happen anytime soon
18:46.24Ralithmafm: what's in src/other doesn't look like trunk, it looks like 1.4.8
18:46.28mafm<brlcad> the open source custom gui toolkit scene has been (and still is) teh suck .. it really is a shame that none of them are realy 'good' -- and do you say that even if there's not even a decent network library? ;)
18:46.46brlcadRalith: i know, preaching to the choir .. just noting that upstream support is only one piece to consider (and not necessarily the biggest one)
18:46.56mafmit's trunk, really
18:47.10mafmand it has to be, not only me but homovulgaris got it working
18:47.11Ralithmust be very old trunk.
18:47.20brlcadmafm: decent network library?  there are several decent network libraries
18:47.39Ralithbrlcad: I don't suppose we've considered using a more mainstream GUI lib like qt or gtk?
18:47.49RalithI imagine there's some reason those are inappropriate?
18:47.51brlcadRalith: yes
18:48.00brlcadthey were the first things considered
18:48.07brlcadwrought with lots of issues
18:48.11mafmbrlcad: s/decent/standard :D
18:48.40mafmRalith: not very old, it's from may or so
18:49.04Ralithhuh.
18:49.12brlcadmafm: the great thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from -- i'm not sure what standardization would get you (for this sort of project)
18:49.16Ralithwell, I'll see about making *it* bsd happy then.
18:49.41brlcadwe have our own net lib in brlcad that should generally be used unless there is some functional reason not to
18:52.08mafmbrlcad: not for this project, I mean in general
18:52.15mafmand I wanted them in std:: :P
18:52.53Raliththere are networking thingies in std::.
18:53.10brlcadRalith: not to get too far into it but the biggest negatives for the two big camps aside from community/dev polarization are that gtk is cross-platform dependency hell and qt is under an unfortunate license
18:54.25Ralithdependency hell?
18:54.34brlcadotherwise, qt is fairly high on the list from a features perspective
18:54.46Ralithactually, that's a thought
18:54.46brlcadyes
18:55.03Ralithqt has a *ton* of stuff that we wouldn't need.
18:55.05brlcadgtk is about as bad as it gets if you manage all dependencies
18:55.13Raliththat sucks.
18:55.18Ralithah well, if rbgui works, then great.
18:56.11brlcadlike I said, I don't think the gui problem is solved .. it'll more amount to how easily can a given toolkit be customized
18:57.07``Erikwhen I was your age, we built gnome without package managers! and we liked it!
18:57.07``Erik;D
18:57.18Ralithhehe
18:57.27pacman87``Erik: yeah i tried that with kde4 a few weeks ago...
18:58.23mafm``Erik: then the came the gentoo guys and blew you all away... :P
18:59.45``Eriknah, debian got gtk into apt, freebsd added it to ports, gentoo wasn't around, ...
19:00.39Ralithback to an earlier note, that wreckedgames link someone pasted seems to imply that they've already got somebody solving the OIS problem cleanly
19:01.19Ralithso the quick fix I set up should do to hold us over for now.
19:02.44mafmsolved it in which release? we're using 1.2.0 IIRC
19:03.08Ralithnobody's solved it
19:03.12Ralithread what I said :P
19:06.17mafmah, the guy is still *solving* it?
19:08.45Ralithso he says.
19:13.01mafmdo you remember the name of the guy? I can't see the one that I know in IRC at the moment
19:15.05RalithPost by: AMDmi3 on June 17, 2008, 04:13:33 PM  
19:17.59mafmthe one that I know it's similar to pacman87, but now his nick is clobbering the other one :D
19:18.58pacman87mafm: do you log chats?
19:20.11mafmnope
19:20.26mafmpjcast, that's it
19:20.31mafmnot very similar after all :D
19:21.15brlcadthree letters match :)
19:22.51mafmI recalled 1st letter and approximate length, just that :D
19:32.10*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-84-80.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:35.07brlcad"And the old pro said to him that people who succeed in the business are not those that are the most talented, and they’re not the people that know the most people, but they are the people who are able to endure."
19:35.15brlcadthat's such a good quote
19:37.13``ErikI thought you were working, not reading slashdot :>
19:38.33``Eriklooks around for his emacs crib sheet
19:39.09mafmlol
19:42.12mafmRalith: are you going to try with ogre trunk?
19:42.28mafmthere was a simple patch adding a function for get it working with older versions
19:42.28Ralithmafm: yeah, on the wrong system right now
19:42.39RalithI saw it
19:42.53mafmgood
19:43.12mafmmaybe I won't be able to join tomorrow and I'll probably be out the rest of the weekend
19:43.36mafmbut you can send me a mail with your progress or doubts, if you want :)
19:44.52Ralithkk
19:44.55Ralithyour email's on your userpage?
19:44.57brlcaddev mailing list ftw ;)
19:45.04Ralithshould get on that
19:45.27mafmthat too
19:45.36brlcadit's low traffic, but a good alternative to irc for the non-screen+irssi or simply non-irc folks
19:45.53brlcadat least until there's a decent forum
19:46.12mafmwoot, I think that I got a complete Blender implementation for the basic functions
19:47.01``Erikrocket racing league heh
19:47.24Ralithmafm: nice! sounds like you're making fast progress.
19:48.18brlcadmafm: cool, that should be really useful in the long run
19:49.51mafmit has: zoom in & out, zoom reset, orbit up/down/left/right, pan 4 dirs, full reset
19:50.00mafmand mouse drag with free rotation
19:50.35mafm(and keyboard with 15 degree steps, as in blender too)
19:51.12Ralithis there any sort of test-object so you can actually tell it's rotating?
19:52.44mafmyes, the boring tetrahedron-like
19:55.14pacman87tetrahedrons aren't boring, you just have to get to know them first
19:55.39mafmwell, it doesn't even have texture and it's all grey
19:55.51mafmit's like a tetrahedron from Roswell
19:56.07mafmyou can't get acquainted with them easily
20:03.22pacman87make a wireframe-type version: 4 spheres, 6 cylinders
20:06.32mafmthe problem is that it's still not shaded or anything
20:07.27brlcadpacman87: hehe
20:09.21mafmbtw, making spheres and cylinders requires more manual programming :D
20:10.16pacman87surely i'm not the only one who anthropomorphizes the platonic solids?
20:10.31RalithI didn't
20:10.33Ralithbut I will now
20:10.40Ralithbecause that is an AWESOME idea.
20:10.58Ralithnow I have someone to blame when a model doesn't work out :>
20:11.45pacman87Ralith: if you get mad at them, they'll never work for you
20:11.52pacman87you have to be friendly
20:12.00RalithI never said I'd be cruel
20:12.10RalithI just might take away their material privledges for a little while
20:12.42Ralithmake them spend some time in a region all alone
20:13.31pacman87woohoo, i just fixed a bug by adding 4 characters in two places :)
20:14.25brlcadhehe, you guys are nuts
20:14.53brlcadlike a torus
20:17.57starseekerI know I can check the region flag on a combination to see if it IS a region - is there any logic to let me ask a combination if it CONTAINS any regions?  (i.e., is it an assembly?)
20:20.33mafmCould not read status line: Secure connection truncated (https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net)
20:20.33brlcadnot that come to mind, but you should be able to find out pretty easily with db_walk_tree or one of the other traversal funcs
20:20.34mafm:|
20:20.49starseekercool.
20:21.24starseekerchecks how db_apply_state_from_comb works...
20:21.39pacman87wireframe: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_wf09.png
20:21.39pacman87raytrace: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_rt16.png
20:22.03pacman87the sketch is just four line segments
20:22.17pacman87autoclosed
20:22.19mafmso I can't commit the rest of the code today...
20:22.51mafmheading home, take care folks :)
20:23.09pacman87later
20:25.21pacman87i can't commit either
20:27.11brlcadme either
20:29.19brlcadpacman87: hah, that is wicked cool -- i take it that is at least 4 line segments?
20:29.35pacman87the sketch is only the 4 segments
20:29.42pacman87all others were auto-added
20:30.02brlcadright
20:30.10brlcadlooks great
20:30.15pacman87thanks
20:30.39pacman87i think i'll write a rt_sketch_contains( point2d pt ) function
20:36.40*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
20:38.09starseekernote to self - looks like logic needed is somewhere in db_tree
20:42.02brlcadstarseeker: there are about five walkers
20:42.13brlcadmake sure it's not something already available in one of the other walkers
20:42.21starseekerright :-)
20:42.24pacman87brlcad: file is here: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/wireframe.g
20:42.39pacman87won't look right for you yet, since i can't commit
20:42.51starseeker knows the region creator warns of there is a region below it - a variation on that is all I need
20:43.25brlcade.g. db_find_tree maintains a db_tree_state with the matrices applied, but none of the others do, etc
20:43.47brlcader db_walk_tree
20:44.02brlcaddb_walk_tree stops at regions, it's probably using that
20:46.12brlcadthere we go, db_recurse would probably do the trick, feed it a db_tree_state that has a region callback set
20:46.18starseekerHmm - db_count_subtree_regions
20:46.27brlcadooh, even better :)
20:46.50brlcadone of the great and bad things about librt .. it's big
20:46.58starseekerassumes the name is descriptive...
20:47.02brlcadbut if you need it, highly likely someone else needed it too
20:47.04starseekerread read read
20:47.32starseekerfor naming, a LACK of an extension is only OK (sometimes) if its an assembly
20:47.45starseekere.g. if there's one or more regions in there
20:47.58starseekerso I have to check
20:55.42brlcadwoot
20:55.49CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31866 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac include/common.h include/config_win.h): since we're always defining it, push USE_PROTOTYPES up into common.h so our headers are closer to working without needing a config.h
20:56.44CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31867 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c: make the wireframe handling more robust - don't automatically draw a line from an open endpoint to the axis if there is another open endpoint with the same Y value
21:01.07CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31868 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/namegen.c: Make it a bit easier to throw test strings at the parsing routine, tweak some behavior, a few notes on things to figure out. Still a long way from usable.
21:04.28PrezKennedybrlcad, i got my learner's permit!
21:09.39brlcadwoo hoo!
21:09.52brlcadnow you just need one of those four-wheeled thingies
21:12.09pacman87brlcad: a car?
21:12.46brlcadpacman87: ;)
21:12.57pacman87i need one too
21:13.16Ralithget me one while you're at it
21:13.27CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31869 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 7 dirs): if we're going to always define USE_FBSERV then why does it even exist? push it out of configure up into dm.h, make it non-conditional for libtclcad but keep libdm's just in case.
21:23.34brlcadRalith: curious, back on the rbgui point, did you see the video?
21:23.43brlcad(just wondering)
21:44.27Ralithbrlcad: the 'ideal UI' thing?
21:45.05pacman87<PROTECTED>
21:45.07pacman87lol
22:15.17pooliobrlcad: howdy :)
22:15.42pacman87poolio: apparently we Ps are taking over IRC
22:15.55pooliopacman87: according to? Ralith?
22:16.41brlcadRalith: no, the rbgui demo video
22:16.54pacman87(02:14:16 PM) mafm: do you remember the name of the guy? I can't see the one that I know in IRC at the moment
22:16.54pacman87(02:19:14 PM) mafm: the one that I know it's similar to pacman87, but now his nick is clobbering the other one :D
22:17.38poolioaawww, hi mafm
22:17.50Ralithbrlcad: nope
22:18.05Ralithdidn't know there were any
22:18.18pooliopacman87: I think the issue is just that we have the same first character...I think that everyone else is unique in that respect
22:21.16pacman87there are currently 32 people in this channel, and only 26 letters.  therefore, there must be other sets of nicks that start with the same first letter.
22:27.04pooliooh how I love the pigeonhole principle
22:27.34Ralithwhat about non-alphabetical nicks?
22:27.37RalithIRC allows that
22:28.05*** join/#brlcad hml (n=x@unaffiliated/hml)
22:28.20hmlhow do i efficiently take the intersection of two water tight meshes?
22:30.52brlcadhml: combine them together in a combination with an intersection operation .. (?)
22:31.09hmlno sorry; i meant how to implement this operatioln
22:31.21hmlif i have an array of vertices, an array of edges, and an array of faces
22:31.26hmlas the structure for a mesh;
22:31.40hmlgiveh two of these water tight meshes, how I can calculate their intersection
22:31.45hmlthis seems like a rather complicated operation
22:31.49brlcadheh, explaining that is somewhat more complicated
22:32.00brlcad"read the source" ;)
22:32.14brlcadwe have an implementation of that in brl-cad
22:32.23brlcadit amounts to .. a lot of code
22:33.11hmlhmm; is the csg library easy to factor out?
22:33.32brlcadit's fairly modular as it is
22:34.10brlcadbut yeah, you could probably extract those portions that relate to this fairly easily
22:34.50brlcadit all happens in src/librt  (with most in src/librt/primitives/nmg)
22:35.15hmlcan you give me a few pointers on which dirs to start with?
22:35.27brlcadotherwise, we published a research paper on the technique we use about a decade ago
22:36.23brlcadwhat are you doing?
22:36.44hmli see src/librt, but not primitives/nmg
22:36.59brlcadstarseeker, pacman87, etc .. if you use rss, sf.net has a feed for site status now: feed://sourceforge.net/community/forum/rss.php?forum=11
22:37.56brlcadhe talks about the recent svn outage earlier today as just being part of working on the new svn infrastructure in chicago, sorting out performance problems
22:38.11brlcadthat shouldn't be longer than a half-hour else they'll update the site status
22:42.01hmlwhy is thisalled librt
22:42.18hml(why is csg in ray tracing)
22:43.18hmlactually, where's the pape ryou write 10 years again
22:43.32hmlmaybe i can read it and implement a crapppppy version of it for my own needs
22:44.20pacman87hml: is that like a Ppppppowerbook?
22:44.20hmlno; it's an  ultra sensistivbe keyboard
22:44.20hmlit's xrate 150 100
22:44.38brlcadcsg ray tracing is at the heart of what we do and why we do it, they are very closely tied to one another
22:44.50pacman87http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/
22:44.56brlcadcsg of polygonal surfaces is entirely secondary
22:45.35brlcadwe can evaluate csg on any geometry format whether it be implicit, explicit polygonal, explicit spline surface, etc
22:45.43brlcadby doing it at the ray-trace level
22:46.05hmlso you do csg via ray traceing?
22:46.19brlcadyes
22:46.44brlcadnot for the polygonal surface on polygonal surface calculation I referred to
22:46.50hmlhmm
22:47.02hmlwhere's the paper ? :-)
22:47.11brlcadthough if you just put the two meshes into one combination and ray-trace it, it'll evaluate the csg at ray-trace time
22:47.24hmli need to get the csg into a mesh to load ito opengl
22:48.14brlcadspecifically for meshes, you can also evaluate the result by facetizing .. which if you have two meshes and a boolean will be the resultant mesh of that boolean
22:48.40brlcadi don't have a cite link on hand for the paper, you'll have to search for it -- pretty sure it's reachable via google
22:49.01brlcadtry brl-cad, nmg, n-manifold geometry, muuss, terms should help
22:49.28brlcadotherwise, I'd be glad to help you modularize our code for your need
22:52.11hmlokay; I'm going to tkae you up on this offer; right after I eat
22:54.23brlcadas in help you work with us, provide pointers in the code, maybe work towards commit access
22:54.26brlcadnot do it for you in any sense of the offer ;)
22:54.52brlcadcollaboration is key, I have more than enough on my plate to do it for you ;)
22:54.58hmlof course
22:55.12hmlyou job will solely be as a wiki; i'll write every line of code :-)
22:55.40brlcadyou really shouldn't need to write code other than to optimize (this chunk of code is entirely not optimized)
22:56.07brlcadmostly moving stuff around, maybe moving all the nmg code into its own library
22:56.22brlcadsince that's what it sounds like you need
22:56.43brlcadstill, what is this for and who are you? :)
22:57.37hmlresearch ... nameless grad student
22:58.22brlcadk
22:59.04brlcadthen I shall be mentor ... nameless brl-cad dev
22:59.28Ralithwhat's with the nick anyway
22:59.36RalithI thought you were a bot when I joined
23:00.33poolioit was that or 'sean-cad'
23:00.58hmlbrlcad: when are you normally on irc / what time zone?
23:01.08CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31870 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
23:01.08CIA-22BRL-CAD: the topic has come up before, but raised again by someone possibly interested in
23:01.08CIA-22BRL-CAD: working on the task (hml, via irc). refactor all of the nmg processing code
23:01.08CIA-22BRL-CAD: (back) into its own library. would let external users manage their mesh
23:01.08CIA-22BRL-CAD: geometry without needing to pull in everything else in librt.
23:01.11brlcadhml: I'm always on irc, even when I'm not
23:01.37brlcadif you linger, i'll read and answer anything in my backlog
23:02.05brlcadRalith: I was using the 'brlcad' nick long before brl-cad was open source
23:02.23Ralithhuh.
23:02.23brlcadjust a handle because I love working on it
23:02.23Ralithhehe
23:02.47Ralithgreat to know you're that dedicated
23:03.25pooliobrlcad: is src/other/openNURBS meant to be vanilla?
23:03.37brlcadpoolio: theoretically
23:03.42brlcadit's not atm
23:04.02brlcadi (or someone(tm)) have to undo some of the mods made so we can upgrade to the latest releast
23:05.02poolioHmmm, it's probably to just create a new file for what I'm thinking about doing...I was talking with ed about how to get ellipsoids, and it looks like you can just take the sphere and stretch it
23:05.25brlcadjason had to implement some of the evaluation routines that they ripped out in order to get ray-tracing working and it was easier at the time to just mod them instead of hacking around it some other way
23:05.31poolioAlso, I have no clue how to do tgc :\
23:05.51brlcadi can help you with the caps ;)
23:06.02brlcadchuckles
23:06.03poolioHeh, but raytracing doesn't work, does it? :P
23:06.14brlcadit does
23:06.17brlcadsomewhat
23:06.26brlcadlots of failure cases, very raw
23:06.33poolioIt failed pretty miserable on my torus
23:07.41brlcadyou'll get a mix of utter failure (crashes) to working beautifully to working with nasty results to almost working with acne
23:07.50poolioMy English is pretty terrible today
23:08.04pooliobrlcad: good luck fixing that :)
23:08.35brlcadwe have a matrix of a slew of things exported from Rhino3D .. about a third worked flawless, about a third with some problem, and about a third failing hard
23:08.50poolioyeah I saw, you sent it to me
23:08.56brlcadright
23:09.00brlcadthat thing
23:12.40poolioAfter ell/tgc/arbs, what would you say is the next most important?
23:14.08brlcadtor
23:14.30pooliodone tor :)
23:14.47poolioI guess I should say openNURBS did tor...
23:15.19brlcadfor tgc, you could start with the subset cases
23:15.30brlcadrcc, rec, trc, tec, etc
23:16.09brlcadotherwise, pipe is probably the next one (which is sort of just stitching rcc's and tor's together)
23:16.22brlcadfollowed by arbn (different from arb#)
23:17.05poolioDo you think it's worth doing the subsets of tgc?
23:20.14brlcaddunno, might help figure out tgc if you figure out rcc first
23:20.52poolioWell rcc is just a surface of revolution...all the primitives like that are easy
23:21.04poolioThe issue is when they aren't a surface of revolution...have to take a totally different approoach
23:21.21poolioAlthough, if the scaling thing ed told me about works, then that may be grossly simplified
23:24.06brlcadah, true
23:24.15brlcadi was thinking of defining that surface directly
23:24.23brlcadbut a revolution would be easier
23:25.08*** join/#brlcad punkrockgirl (n=Pandora@c-69-243-244-154.hsd1.mo.comcast.net)
23:25.35brlcadpoolio: er, hold up .. isn't tgc one of the few that were actually already done?
23:25.55brlcadi.e. it has a tnurb callback
23:26.05brlcadjust need to convert that to opennurbs lingo
23:26.08pooliobrlcad: oh yeah? lemme go look :)
23:26.15brlcadyeah it does
23:26.48pooliobrlcad: yes! schweet :)
23:27.06poolioell does too. I forgot about these
23:27.41*** join/#brlcad saltan (n=lieven@d51530284.access.telenet.be)
23:27.52brlcadso do a few others from the looks of it
23:27.56brlcadhowdy punkrockgirl
23:28.49brlcadpoolio: yet even a third option is that we have an okay to utilize the code in BOOLE
23:29.45*** part/#brlcad saltan (n=lieven@d51530284.access.telenet.be)
23:29.56brlcadboole implements a lot of this too (it's a sytem for ray-tracing csg nurbs surfaces, specifically built from brl-cad geometry)
23:29.58poolioSo is there any reason not to use BOOLE?
23:30.31brlcadyeah, it was an academic effort that has a hell of a lot of failure cases
23:30.39brlcadbut that's at the CSG eval level
23:30.50brlcadthe underlying pieces might be helpful reference code
23:30.52poolioyeah...if the conversion to brep works...
23:31.31brlcadthey have a website with a tarball up
23:32.08poolioI'm browsing the source right now
23:34.33brlcadtheir "ascii" format is actually our old v4 file format, so I can show you how to get that if you need it
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080718

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080718

00:08.21hmlhaha
00:08.29hmlspinlocksolutions ... interesting company name
00:08.37hmlreminds me of this proof
00:08.39hmlwhere if you're in the os
00:08.47hmland you're decidine g between  spinlocking and sleeping
00:08.55hmlyou shoudl spinlock for the expected time to get the lock
00:08.57hmlthen sleep
00:09.03hmlguarnateed to be within a factor of 2 of optimal
00:11.34starseeker_does double-take seeing rhino in his world upgrade file, before noticing it is a java thing
01:27.18*** join/#brlcad Miesco (n=shawn@bas2-toronto12-1088943115.dsl.bell.ca)
01:27.24MiescoHey, how do i select an object
01:27.26MiescoSo its white
01:29.04brlcadMiesco: want the gui answer or the command-line answer?
01:29.27Miescobrlcad: both please
01:29.30brlcadand have you read the mged tutorial -- it covers the gui answer
01:29.41Miescobrlcad: I am reading it
01:29.50Miescobrlcad: the one for beginners
01:30.27brlcad#2 at http://brlcad.org/wiki/Documentation
01:30.29MiescoIm doing the project where you create a globe in a frame
01:30.34brlcadokay
01:30.41brlcadthat's one of its lessons
01:32.02MiescoI dont think that it told me
01:32.08MiescoHow do you?
01:32.17MiescoI looked through the whole refrence
01:32.22Miescoboth of them
01:33.31brlcadit definitely tells you :)
01:33.36Miescoaw man, what page
01:33.44MiescoWhats the command line way to do it
01:33.48brlcadpage 73
01:34.10brlcadif it's a primitive, you can use Primitive Selection on the Edit menu
01:34.25brlcadif it's a combination/region/group, you use the Matrix Selection on the Edit Menu
01:35.04Miescothanks
01:35.34Miescoprimitive is what you get from make right?
01:35.41brlcadyes
01:36.46brlcadif you turn on misc->faceplate and misc->faceplaye gui then you can also use the 's' keybinding in the graphics window, then move your mouse up/down to select objects for editing
01:37.12brlcadthe command line way is either using the 'sed' command or the 'oed' command for primitives and combinations respectively
01:37.50brlcadthere's a nice detailed tutorial on the oed command on the website, #5
01:38.10brlcadthe mged quick referecne card (#2.1) lists both of them under editing
02:45.06PrezKennedychanges nickname to mged for good laughs
02:46.44pacman87i call 'rt'
02:48.30brlcadPrezKennedy: you happen to be at home?
03:05.08poolio<PROTECTED>
03:06.10starseeker_Hmm - brlcad, is oed supposed to work if you just give it a primitive?  Or should that be sed only?
03:06.30brlcadit's not presently supposed to work
03:06.46brlcadbut it certainly could be made to work
03:09.41brlcadsomething like: oed {lhs rhs | object}  and if object is a primitive, it just does the same as sed; if it's a combination, it uses the center of bb and applies as "/ object"
03:10.27brlcadoo, even better: oed [lhs] {path}
03:11.43brlcadwhere if lhs is missing, it defaults to / and path can be just an object name (prim or comb) which causes it to use center of the BB of the rightmost path element (which is the BB of that element if you do just "oed obj")
03:20.54PrezKennedybrlcad, im in La Plata
03:41.40*** join/#brlcad Rabbitbunny (n=Bunny@unaffiliated/rabbitbunny)
03:42.24RabbitbunnyYou guy only know about brlcad or do you happen to know how to get things to quit flipping inside out in SolidWorks.
03:42.34RabbitbunnyAlso, Why aren't you all in #cad?
03:48.55*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
03:58.33pacman87'flipping inside out'?
03:59.39RabbitbunnyAs in, instead of the control arms being outside the ladder frame, they are suddenly inside it.
04:00.22pacman87are you talking about mates in an assembly?
04:01.35brlcadRabbitbunny: why would be be in #cad?
04:01.36RabbitbunnyWell, It's related to mates... But yes it's an assembly of tubing which creates a double wishbone suspension.
04:02.04Rabbitbunnybrlcad: Because brlcad is pretty related.
04:02.30brlcadand more importantly, why would we want to provide support for a non-commercial package that someone supposedly paid a high penny for while what we do is for free ;)
04:02.59brlcadRabbitbunny: so is #c and a couple dozen channels, but that's not a reason to hang out there ;)
04:03.20RabbitbunnyBecause not everyone has 3d rendering on their linux box.
04:03.54brlcadeh?
04:04.26brlcads/non-// too, of course .. heh
04:05.01brlcadnot trying to be antagonistic, but it's just really out of place
04:05.23yukonbobhello, BRL-CADheads
04:06.10pacman87howdy yukonbob
04:06.13brlcadif we received the money that was sent to dassault for that license, I might be more receptive ;)
04:06.20RabbitbunnyWell, obviously, But truth be told I never considered an oss cad system.
04:06.38yukonbobRabbitbunny: you've come to the right place to start considering :)
04:06.52brlcadyou're paying them to support you, make them support you :)
04:07.21RabbitbunnyIt's 11pm, I think they're sleeping on my money right this moment.
04:07.45yukonbobor snorting cocaine off of strippers
04:07.59brlcadheh
04:08.03RabbitbunnyWell yeah, But I figure they're too old for that.
04:08.10RabbitbunnyMaybe the marketing guys are.
04:08.33brlcadoh, i know a couple of the dassault guys .. they'd be up for at least half that statement ;)
04:10.37Rabbitbunnyheh 'Solid Modelling for a strong defense'
04:10.48RabbitbunnyI think the project history may be fun to read.
04:12.10brlcadif you have any questions about brl-cad, be more than happy to answer them :)
04:12.45brlcadthe industry diagram might be a useful starting point for you (under Documentation) as well as the introduction
04:13.55brlcadwe don't have nearly the manpower, resources, or development investment than the major commercial CAD packages have, but we do get the job done if you are willing to climb the learning curve (we are definitely rather different)
04:14.29brlcadusability isn't a strong point, but support, customization, and development momentum are
04:15.00yukonbobsuggests s/usability/easy introduction/
04:15.28yukonboblike people say about Unix -- it's user friendly, but just picky about who it's friend are...
04:17.49brlcadyeah, that's probably a better way to put it -- especially given our best modelers are just as efficient in brl-cad as they are in commercial cad systems (they tell us)
04:22.27RabbitbunnyIt can't be too bad, I didn't even do the SolidWorks course.
04:23.23yukonbobRabbitbunny: with BRL-CAD, expect a steep learning curve. Think of something steep. Double it. Double it again. But once you're over that, pure joy.
04:24.42*** join/#brlcad hml (n=x@unaffiliated/hml)
04:25.17yukonbobhowdy hml
04:25.33hmlreading laidlaw's 1986 csg paper
04:25.38hmlyou read it before?
04:25.46jonorednotes that this sort of learning curve is exactly why he's unlikely to bother much with anything else - not everyone is afriad of the steep curve.
04:28.34RabbitbunnyWell, there are two types of curves. Concepts and Memorization. SolidWorks forced me to learn a lot of concepts. Hopefully brlcad isn't all about memorization.
04:28.54RabbitbunnyI see references to vi and emacs, somewhat forboding.
04:29.41yukonbobEmbrace the fear. Come. Join the Free Side.
04:30.54jonoredAh, but you get so much power from a proper editor like one of those...
04:34.34Ralithin my opinion, steep learning curves are the best kind
04:34.44Ralithlots of work, but a very rewarding height once you're up there
04:34.53Ralithalso
04:34.56Ralith[21:03]<Rabbitbunny>Because not everyone has 3d rendering on their linux box.
04:35.14RalithI'm pretty sure BRL-CAD is usable if you don't even have an X server.
04:35.18Ralithalthough compiling it might be hard.
04:35.54Raliththe only realtime rendering currently done in the bits I'm aware of is very simple wireframes :P
04:36.04Ralithwhich can probably even be done at usable speed in software.
04:36.24jonoredThere's also, you know, rt... but that's a raytracer, which isn't generally done with hardware.
04:36.32jonored(or rather, specialized hardware.)
04:36.41RabbitbunnyOh, I have X. It just doesn't do 3d. It's a p2-733 with 320Mb ram and an Intel i810. Xfce is pushing it.
04:37.14pacman87Rabbitbunny: is that what you're running solidworks on?
04:37.34RabbitbunnyNo, I run SolidWorks on the Windows box.
04:37.48RalithRabbitbunny: if you look at the gallery, there's a photo of BRL-CAD in use on a PDP-11.
04:37.50pacman87*sigh of relief*
04:37.53jonoredI'm running BRL-CAD quite comfortably on a similar system, but I think substantially lower clock.
04:37.57RalithI'm pretty sure those don't have 3d accel either.
04:38.23pacman87i've got a pIII 800 mhz w/ 192 mb ram ( i think
04:38.37pacman87sitting behind me
04:38.55RalithI've got a bunch of those
04:39.02jonoredCF-27. PII, 300MHz, 128mb ram, what I'm typing this on :)
04:39.04Ralithbeen thinking about networking them up and trying out distributed raytracing on them
04:39.26jonoredmy primary machine.
04:39.40RabbitbunnyMy server is a p2-450 with 128mb and no X. Slowest box I've ever owned.
04:42.51RabbitbunnyYes, I'm young.
04:43.42pacman87i think my dad had a 286 and a 386
04:43.51jonoredIt's nice having a machine you can drop from a yard up, take out in the rain/dust/freezing, and replace for $50. Snappy, too, with lightweight software on it.
04:43.53pacman87probably sitll up in the attic somehwere
04:44.30Ralithjonored: although I <3 my core 2 duo laptop w/ a high end video card, too ^^
04:45.26pacman87first os i remember was ms dos shell
04:45.47brlcadhml: yeah, that's not far off what we do
04:46.52RabbitbunnyLucky, My dad into Apple, I still have the ][e. Haven't made the fishtank yet.
04:47.00Rabbitbunnys/into/was into/
04:48.20jonoredRalith: Might up to one of the CF-19s sometime. 4lb, ultra-low-power core duo, good graphics, and a tablet, all on the same durability spec as my beast.
04:48.28hmlbrlcad: cool, I think i'm going to start out trying to implement that paer (and learn from it -- not trying to reinvent the wheel here -- and port the brlcad code if I fail)
04:49.15jonored(girlfriend has one of those, it's impressive.)
04:50.39brlcadRalith: compiling brl-cad for non-X11 use is pretty simple actually, just set a flag and you have non-gui-only
04:51.09pacman87use rt -F/dev/brainlink
04:51.52Ralithbrlcad: ooo, cool
04:51.54brlcadbut yeah, even for full functionality we don't require opengl
04:51.57Ralithi didn't think that was actually supported
04:52.28Ralithjonored: I like being able to game ^^
04:52.56brlcadRabbitbunny: brl-cad actually should run on a IIe if you had the right tools and environment to compile :)
04:53.40RabbitbunnyIt has a ~9" screen.
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06:13.46CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31871 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c: ah, this file got skipped by the commit. remove USE_FBSERV protections, it's always on anyways.
06:14.10CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31872 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: EXTERN_STDOUT does not seem to be used anywhere
06:43.27CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31873 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: added some files to be consistent with Makefile.am
06:44.37CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31874 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/BrlcadCore.def: some additional exported functions in BrlcadCore
06:45.01CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31875 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/CMakeLists.txt: added the proe-g converter to the CMake build
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08:31.45saltan\whois saltan
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10:27.04CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31876 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraModes.cxx CameraModes.h): Tweaks so Blender camera mode works closer to the original
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10:42.55mafmhi
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13:00.08``ErikO.o
13:16.04CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31877 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcParser.h: header is not included
13:32.50pacman87morning, all
13:36.22brlcadhowdy pacman87
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14:08.53prasad1heyo
14:15.34brlcadhowdy prasad1
14:17.37brlcadpoolio: it's in your home dir
14:21.51``Erikhas opened his mouth in #lisp and is... boggled at how undickish and helpful and laid back they are O.o
14:21.54``Erikwhat went wrong? :D
14:33.09pooliobrlcad: thanks. whatcha doin in there ;)
14:33.32brlcadhm, in where?
14:33.52poolio~poolio
14:34.07poolioI'm just giving you a hard time :)
14:47.13brlcadwasn't, just blindly sudo cp'd :)
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15:12.48starseeker``Erik:  told you
15:13.18starseekerin my experience, it's usally idiots and flamers who get burnt to a crisp - you know enough to ask reasonable questions
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16:20.32CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31878 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (6 files):
16:20.33CIA-22BRL-CAD: Variable generation from expressions ( of the form "Var123=325.3" with
16:20.33CIA-22BRL-CAD: whitespace skipping complete. Result stored in a PCSet class which would be used
16:20.33CIA-22BRL-CAD: by Generator( Simple wrappers over Network constructor ) for generation of the
16:20.33CIA-22BRL-CAD: constraint network
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16:40.10CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r31879 10/brlcad/trunk/ (68 files in 12 dirs):
16:40.10CIA-22BRL-CAD: Stub in the following commands: copyeval cp dbip dump dup expand facetize find g
16:40.10CIA-22BRL-CAD: get_type hide i keep kill killall killtree lt make_bb match move_arb_edge
16:40.10CIA-22BRL-CAD: move_arb_face mv mvall nmg_collapse nmg_simplify open pathlist push r rm rmap
16:40.10CIA-22BRL-CAD: rotate_arb_face rt_gettrees shells showmats bot_smooth summary title tol unhide
16:40.12CIA-22BRL-CAD: units version whatid whichair whichid xpush
16:42.44prasad1http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-509718/Try-making-splash-worlds-largest-swimming-pool--1-000-yards-long.html
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21:03.43CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31880 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_tree.c: ws
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21:47.23CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31881 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/namegen.c:
21:47.23CIA-22BRL-CAD: more work on name parsing - test database reading, beginnings of region
21:47.23CIA-22BRL-CAD: counting logic - need to use db_functree in db_walk.c and supply a comb function
21:47.23CIA-22BRL-CAD: to check if the comb is a region and increment a counter. Current method bombs
21:47.23CIA-22BRL-CAD: out if no region is present due to use of db_recurse.
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21:55.28brlcadahah
21:55.35brlcadstarseeker: I forgot to load the directory
22:48.16brlcadstarseeker: http://brlcad.org/wiki/Example_db_walk_tree
22:48.50brlcadshakes fist at db_dirbuild() .. then shamefully realizes it was entirely user error
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080719

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080719

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01:28.47starseeker_brlcad:  Cool example - thanks!
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02:12.50starseeker_bemusedly predicts that the Mummy III movie will start prompting jokes about the franchise itself joining the ranks of the undead...
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06:34.24brlcadyawns
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14:04.00``Erikapparently pauly short desease is transmittable, brenden frasier caught it when he was doing encino man O.o
14:04.20``Erikshore, even
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15:10.45``Erikit's really handy that emacs binds help to ^H, I mean, it's not like that could mean anything else, like delete
15:26.31brlcad(global-set-key "\C-h" 'delete-backward-char)
15:29.43brlcadhaving a tailored .emacs is handy, here's what I usuaully use: http://brlcad.org/~sean/dotemacs
15:31.32jonoredI'll take :help any day, even when writing Lisp.
15:42.15``Erikslime is damn sexy. limp is not quite there yet, and tic is busy with his masters thesis. :(
15:42.55``Erikjonored++ for lithp :D
15:44.28``Erikif vim could provide me the swank bridge, something like ^c^c for form eval, and sane tab completion... that'd be it, I'd put emacs back in the bit bucket :)
15:45.15``Erik(by "sane" tab completion, I mean interrogating the environment on the other side of the swank bridge for candidates)
15:54.01starseeker_'s pet annoyance is that on the Aquamacs the end key goes to the end of file rather than the end of line
15:55.01starseeker_looks over brlcad's dotemacs to see if he solved that...
15:57.43brlcadstarseeker_: erm, should learn the standard bindings for that ..
15:57.52brlcadctrl-a ctrl-e for begin/end of line
15:58.08starseeker_Ah
15:58.19brlcadthat's portable to most command lines, and goes back to the dawn of time
15:58.30starseeker_very good
15:58.49starseeker_keeps using the end key by reflex, then has to find his way back...
15:59.12jonoredBoth scripts I found to do that quickly use some perl glue, but not terribly much. vim doesn't do terribly well with talking to continuously-running processes. I'm only finding the form eval part, but the tab completion part is derivable from that...
16:34.25brlcadstarseeker_: added the bindings for home/end
16:34.30brlcad(refresh)
16:35.34starseeker_cool - thanks!!
16:35.38brlcadbut seriously .. should learn the standard navigation keys ..
16:35.46starseeker_Oh, I'll try :-)
16:36.08starseeker_the problem was it takes only one split second mistake and you're off to lala land...
16:36.14brlcadctrl-a,e,b,f,p,n
16:36.50starseeker_is learning both Emacs and vim intelligent editing
16:36.55brlcaderm, whenever in doubt ctrl-g ctrl-g
16:37.09brlcadthat'll break out of just about anything
16:38.01brlcadthink of it as your "uh oh, i better start over" binding (ctrl-gg)
16:41.25starseeker_Or the "oh, crap!" binding :-P
16:41.34brlcadsure :)
16:42.01brlcadakin to esc esc in vim
16:42.55starseeker_wishes vim had nxml
16:43.03brlcad(including the detail that one is usually enough, but two will get you out of most anything)
16:44.07starseeker_is planning to post the VIM cheat sheets up on the wall of his work area
16:44.12brlcadhave you been using the docbook major mode?
16:44.27starseeker_for vim you mean?
16:44.32brlcadfor emacs
16:44.36starseeker_just nxml
16:44.51starseeker_looks up docbook major mode
16:45.26brlcadhttp://sourceforge.net/projects/docbookxml/
16:46.54brlcaddunno if it's actually any better, was more asking if you'd compared :)
16:47.06brlcadnxml could very well be better
16:47.33starseeker_hadn't heard of docbookxml
16:47.45starseeker_nxml dominated most of the searches I did, IIRC
16:48.04starseeker_REALLY likes nxml's ability to check validity in real time
16:48.30starseeker_even with the xinclude stuff messing it up, it still underlines the errors usefully - a very impressive piece of work
16:49.01brlcadcool
16:49.28starseeker_It knows what tags should and shouldn't be in environments, as well - kept me from making a few errors
16:53.26CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31882 10/brlcad/trunk/include/conf/: ignore TS
17:28.01pooliobrlcad: I recently read a fairly old paper on 'geons' and how we recognize things based on their structure. Makes me want to keep going on beset :)
17:28.42poolioAlso, looks like the DoD is interested: http://www.dodtechmatch.com/DOD/Opportunities/SBIRView.aspx?id=A08-059 :P
17:39.22brlcadpoolio: nobody stopped you in the first place ;)
17:50.46pooliobrlcad: true true. but i can work on the brep code and get paid :) need money for chinese carry out all next year.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080720

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080720

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04:39.20CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31883 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_4d.c: w
04:40.35CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31884 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/ (html/manuals/Install.html pkg.tr): remove references to the non-existent rfbd service, it was renamed to fbserv
06:20.45CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31885 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/Makefile.am: need -fexceptions for libs that link against C++ sources (that throw exceptions)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080721

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080721

00:19.45jonoredhmm... what does "loop transits plane of shell/face" mean from g-stl? it keeps bailing with that message, and I didn't think my geometry was that odd...
00:38.49brlcadjonored: it's part of the solidity constraint checking as it evaluates geometry, going from one representation format to another (solid polygonal)
00:39.39brlcadmore specifically, the topological 'loop' that defines a given face is non-planar (which shouldn't regularly be happening)
00:40.33brlcadit'll complain and even "bu_bomb" reporting errors -- that doesn't necessarily mean that it succeeded or failed though -- have to inspect the result
00:40.51jonoredAny idea why it'd do that? I've got a trc with a bunch of other trcs and spheres subtracted out, and intersected with an rpp... it's saying that it didn't write any triangles.
00:44.40jonoredwhich is to say, what should I be looking for to figure out what's wrong?
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01:00.58jonoredFound it. Using a sphere as an endcap to smooth between two cones, and having them all have the same radius was breaking things, even though they're unioned together. Wasn't expecting that.
02:06.12``Erikpheers code monkeys
02:58.29pooliobrlcad: Do you know what's up with the incomplete brep code in conv/iges?
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05:08.32brlcadpoolio: that was started as a means to test the new brep primitive
05:09.03brlcada separate iges importer, started from scratch
05:11.57poolioah k. It's incomplete, no? It looked like an almost already done snurb/cnurb -> brep aside from a few missing (crucial) functions
05:12.36brlcadyeah, incomplete
05:13.55poolioThe reliance of a cnurb on the associated snurb really messes up the structure of my NMG -> brep code :\
05:14.29poolioIs there a way (outside of openNURBS) to evaluate a snurb at a given (u,v) point?
05:15.16poolioAh d'oh. Found it in nurb_eval.c
05:15.45brlcadoooh, you mean the old snurb/cnurb code
05:16.09brlcadsrc/conv/iges has two iges converters, one using new 'brep' and one using old 'nurb'
05:16.59brlcadthe new brep stuff is looked at as mostly a full replacement for the old nurb code (when it's all working)
05:17.46brlcadthe old iges converter was the one place old nurb was actually put to use (and mostly works actually) .. just that it doesn't do a few things, e.g. doesn't do trimmed nurbs
05:17.47poolioSo, I was going to more fully implement nmg -> brep to supportthe old nurb code, this way I could use the existing tnurb callbacks
05:18.10poolioIs that a bad idea? (are we trying to phase out all the old nurbs code?)
05:19.12brlcadif brep fully works, the old nurb code will be deleted
05:19.53brlcaddon't worry about old spline surface nmg's (i.e. nurb primitives)
05:20.18brlcadif you need it's code, you should probably convert it over as brep routines
05:20.48poolioOk. The thing was it looked easier to implement the NMG conversion then rewriting the tnurb callbacks to create a brep
05:21.33poolioBut it's not that bad to just rewrite the callbacks to create a brep instead...
05:23.33brlcadbut what do you need the old tnurb callbacks for (what callbacks?)
05:25.07poolioSo for example, in tgc.c, there is a rt_tgc_tnurb which creates an NMG to represent the tgc.
05:25.17brlcadah
05:25.47brlcadcreates a 'nurb' nmg .. specific subset
05:26.05poolioI was going to take the NMB that rt_tgc_tnurb created and convert from that NMG -> brep as I already have working NMG code for planar faces, and I'd just need to add support for cnurb/snurb in the NMG -> brep code and then all these rt_xxx_tnurb callbacks would work fine
05:26.16brlcadyeah, I wouldn't rely on that implentation, it needs to be converted to create an ON_Brep instead
05:26.35poolioAlrighty, I'll take that path :)
05:27.07brlcadmight even end up being line for line identical with just different data structures
05:27.13poolioSo just to confirm: reliance on rt_xxx_tess is OK? I'm guessing that's going to be around for ... a hell of a long time :)
05:27.40brlcadyeah, it's just the _nurb() routines that are getting replaced with _brep() routines
05:27.52brlcadtess is fair game
05:35.03PrezKennedy"<darkcrab> question: one of the screws came out of my laptop and one of the sides of my laptop is coming open, what should I do?"
05:35.06PrezKennedypriceless
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09:12.42mafmhi
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10:24.42CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31886 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: added some files to be consistent with Makefile.am
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11:09.39mafmbrlcad: any news from Ralith?
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12:00.13brlcadmafm, not that i'm aware of
12:00.50mafmI haven't received mails or anything, I wonder if he ever got to compile the project
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12:55.45mafmhi homovulgaris
12:56.14mafmmater tua mala burra est :P
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13:20.04starseeker_hmm - for some reason trying to compile the other directory RBgui can't find OGRE
13:21.01mafmare you also checking it out starseeker_? :)
13:21.38mafmwhat's the exact error? (rafb.net/paste or similar, please)
13:21.53CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31887 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraModes.cxx CameraModes.h): Minor rearrangements to prepare for next changes, and to avoid warnings
13:22.00starseeker_one sec - let me run ldconfig
13:23.41starseeker_btw - is there a required version of gcc?  I'm using a pretty new one and OGRE is throwing out warnings left and right
13:24.03mafmyes, but that's ogre's fault
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13:24.23mafmI mean, it's normal, no especial version of gcc required
13:24.29mafmI'm using 4.3.1 I think
13:25.01starseeker_http://paste.bzflag.bz/m34eb8859
13:26.29starseeker_I can try a clean checkout - I may have old incorrect stuff somewhere - but that'll take a while
13:32.55mafmhmm
13:33.06mafmdo you build ogre and ois before?
13:33.20mafmor call explicitly to build only mocha and rbgui?
13:35.33mafmstarseeker_: and also, do you have pkg-config installed?
13:36.14starseeker_built them before
13:36.19starseeker_let me see if I have pkg-config
13:37.03starseeker_yes, I have it
13:38.01mafmis Ogre installed, rather than only compiled?
13:38.45mafmyou can find out if it's properly installed: pkg-config --cflags OGRE
13:39.18mafmit should spit some compiling flags
13:40.08starseeker_let's see...
13:40.18starseeker_hmm, not found
13:40.23starseeker_let me re-check ogre
13:43.09starseeker_Oh, needed to manually point it to the src/other/ogre directory where `OGRE.pc' is located
13:43.27starseeker_let's see if that does anything...
13:46.20mafmhuh
13:46.43mafmit should install it in /usr/local/lib/pkgconfig or similar
13:47.01starseeker_/usr/qt/3/lib/pkgconfig is what it had by default
13:50.07starseeker_If I manually point the PKG_CONFIG_PATH to the directories where the *.pc files are found, it seems to be doing OK.
13:53.22starseeker_mafm:  Arrgh, I set the video settings wrong
13:53.27starseeker_where's the config file?
13:55.00starseeker_oh, nevermind - ogre.cfg
13:55.26starseeker_yick - doesn't like my fonts or something
13:57.10starseeker_Ah, well - got it working :-)
13:57.12starseeker_sort of
13:57.16starseeker_thanks mafm!
13:57.44starseeker_heads in
14:01.04mafmhmm
14:01.39mafmwell, default in unix systems should be /usr/lib/pkgconfig or with local, in the same spirits as includes and so on
14:01.54mafmI don't know why would you *only* had the one of qt
14:01.59mafmbut well, it's OK :)
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15:30.06starseekermafm: might want to add a note in the INSTALL file about that and how to handle it
15:30.46mafmI'm think about adding some kind of pre-flight test with the makefile itself
15:31.06mafmchecking whether pkg-config is available, and yelling when not available
15:31.41mafm(it might be good to have workarounds when not having pkg-config, but I don't have time to fix it atm)
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15:47.25homovulgarishowdy mafm :) whats with the latin :P ?
15:47.40CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31888 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (10 files): Separating camera modes (classes) in different files, as suggested by Sean.
15:48.17mafmhomovulgaris: I tried to said something that I recalled from high school
15:48.29homovulgaris:D
15:48.31mafmbecause your name is in latin
15:48.50mafmtempus fugit!
15:48.55homovulgaris:P just means common man :) but yeah latin is kind of a fun language i guess.
15:49.12homovulgarispersonally i feel sanskrit is much more well structured ..
15:49.36mafmI speak several degenerate-latin languages, so... :)
15:50.20homovulgarislatin is pretty neat foundation for learning all the romance languages i guess.. especially if you already have one as a mother tongue ;)
15:50.38mafmand I my case I have two :D
15:50.47homovulgarisI finally got my computer back :D 4.0 GHz dual core ;)
15:50.50mafmbut I don't remember almost anything from latin classes
15:50.54homovulgarisoverclocked ofcourse :)
15:50.56mafmit's the age I guess :)
15:51.03mafmcongrats!
15:52.13homovulgariswell compilation takes just around 12 minutes.. and planning to use distcc too :P
15:52.24homovulgarishuge improvement from 200 minutes :)
15:53.06mafmcompilation from whole brlcad?
15:53.16homovulgarisyeah :)
15:53.20mafmnot bad
15:53.36mafmhopefully I don't have to compile it often :P
15:54.10homovulgarisg3d looks neat ;)
15:54.18homovulgariswhat all stuff can i do in it now ?
15:55.45mafmyou can... compile it under 15s, I guess (OGRE aside :P)
15:56.06mafmI've been working in camera modes lately
15:56.17mafmI'm trying to create MGED mode today
15:57.01mafmand next to it, start working in the last major part left: displaying geometry and operations, using the new libged
15:57.22homovulgarisyeah i already have the window up and running.. :)
15:57.31homovulgariswhats the triangle in the middle ? test draw ?
15:58.48mafmit's a kind of tetrahedron
15:58.58mafmso you somehow can see the camera mode movements :D
15:59.44mafmyou can manipulate the default camera mode with: +,-,8-4-6-2,5 in the numpad
16:00.16mafmit would help to see it better if the tetrahedron would have texture and proper shading
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16:01.42homovulgaristried it nice.. :) even drawing the edges would make it clearer
16:02.22mafm(btw, the fist phrase in latin that I told before means "your mother eats red|mature apples", but for portuguese and italian and spanish and probably other it sounds as "your mother is a worthless donkey")
16:02.30mafmyou mean to set it in wireframe mode?
16:03.21homovulgaris:P yeah that sentence is known to be pretty ambiguous :P wordplay or something :P : as per google :P
16:03.45homovulgariswireframe+shade. i mean show the edges as well as the faces
16:05.12mafmwell, I didn't implement any of that, it would be done when displaying the rest of geometries
16:05.53mafmprobably I'll have to write code to translate brl-cad primitives as vertices and lists
16:06.17mafmyou can set wireframe mode in the meanwhile with "polygonmode wireframe"
16:06.19mafmin the console
16:07.35mafmoh, and you can also click with middle mouse button and move around dragging the camera -- it's free rotation
16:09.41homovulgarishmm.. is adding mouse support tought ? i mean like this view rotation for example..
16:10.58mafmyou have to inject input, the camera mode sets parameters depending on the position of the pointer (vertical or horizontal rotations, translations, etc)
16:11.28mafmthen when painting the next frame, the camera uses these data to position itself, seeing the scene from different angles
16:11.55mafmbut getting to this "dettached" approarch took a few days and refinements :D
16:12.19mafmhopes to not have to do big acommodations again for implementing MGED
16:14.15mafmthe key parts are only a few dozens lines of code, but it takes a lot to get it right
16:14.27mafmwell
16:14.42mafmand what about your project? progressing steadily?
16:14.52homovulgaris:) can imagine.. beautiful code is a nice read
16:18.32brlcadmafm: one of the libged routines is effectively "give me a display list of vertices and edges"
16:19.28brlcadshould be ged_e or ged_draw -- ged_E or ged_ev should give you evaluated polygonal (slow to call on complex objects)
16:19.52mafmyou mean that that part is translated directly?
16:19.57homovulgarisfree rotation with the mouse works smooth and nice .. :) zoom with scroll coming up ;) ?
16:20.33mafmdirectly by libged I mean, so I don't have to do that myself :D
16:20.48brlcadmafm: yeah, libged handles that
16:21.03mafmhomovulgaris: mmm, it tried to copy Blender mode, not sure if they have that
16:21.11brlcadwith libged you really should be able to do just about everything that mged can presetntly do
16:21.33mafmhomovulgaris: >:| you found a bug
16:21.37brlcadand if there's something you can't do with it, bob's probably just not gotten to it yet or it's something that needs refactoring still
16:21.54brlcadbut basic geometry loading and wireframe is there now
16:22.07homovulgaristhinks irssi is awesome
16:22.11mafmand the vertices list also takes into account "faces" of the triangle?
16:22.17brlcadscreen+irssi ftw
16:23.25starseekerbrlcad:  Where does that example code of yours link from?  the wiki home page doesn't seem to have a path to it
16:23.30brlcadmafm: there are different render modes -- for e/draw you don't have faces, you just have unevaluated wireframe so you'll just display what they give you
16:23.36homovulgarisbrlcad: terminator+irssi .. i like screen.. but maybe will need more getting used to :)
16:23.59brlcadmafm: for commands like ev/E, you get a polygonal display list -- plenty to do shaded displays and more
16:24.36brlcadhomovulgaris: what is terminator?
16:25.02brlcadstarseeker: mm, probably from nothing
16:25.11starseekerdigs it up...
16:25.13starseekerconfirmed
16:25.14brlcadtry special pages, unreferenced
16:25.36brlcadlink it under the dev docs/tutorials
16:25.48CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31889 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Commands.h: Enhancing PolygonMode command so less typing is needed
16:26.08brlcadcould use expanding too, explaining each section, didn't get to that
16:26.12homovulgarisbrlcad: multiview terminal https://launchpad.net/terminator/
16:26.38homovulgarisnot as useful as screen ..
16:26.40starseekerbrlcad: will do
16:26.43brlcadhomovulgaris: oh, heh .. that's not a screen replacement :)
16:27.18homovulgarisyeah not at all a screen replacement :)
16:27.27brlcadscreen is useful when run from a remote server so you can log in and keep (the same) sessions running
16:27.45brlcadlike keeping irssi running so you never detach from irc ;)
16:27.46jonoredwould rather have screen for when he remotes in/kills X because of occasionally glitchy wm.
16:28.31jonoredgets the tiling from the tiling window manager :)
16:28.45homovulgarisrethinks why he runs X when most of the time all he has on are bash windows
16:29.10brlcadooh, terminator is a non-overlapper
16:29.23brlcadnudges mafm :)
16:32.42brlcadala wmii/dwm/ion/awesome etc
16:32.46mafmbrlcad: what?
16:32.54starseekeranybody else getting foobarred fonts in the ogre gui?
16:33.11mafmstarseeker: never ran into that problem
16:33.13brlcadmafm just that homovulgaris' terminal program is .. related ;)
16:33.33brlcadtiling
16:33.43starseekermeh, just my luck
16:33.58starseekerwill post a screenshot when he gets home
16:34.14mafmoh, the tiling thing... sorry but I was only reading my part of conversation
16:34.16starseekerprobably not worth worrying about if I'm the only one
16:34.31homovulgariswhat does foobarred look like :P
16:35.01mafmI had an epyphany because I'm tired and I don't feel like having to type too much today, and "polygonmode wireframe" is way too long...
16:35.13mafmso I'm trying to substitute it for "p<tab> w"
16:35.13mafm:D
16:35.47starseekerhomovulgaris:  unintelligble blurred mess
16:41.03``Erikpets screen
16:46.49*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=timothy@71.170.63.120)
16:54.57*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=timothy@71.170.63.120)
17:16.23CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31890 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/namegen.c: Thanks to Sean's example, switching over to using db_functree - identification is now working.
17:24.11CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31891 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/namegen.c: break out object type detection into its own routine
18:36.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31892 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (4 files): Adding auto-completion functionality for the console and command overlay
18:57.45CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31893 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (6 files): Adding missing functionality to Blender camera mode: zoom in/out with mouse scroll (discovered by Dawn Thomas <homovulgaris>)
19:08.25*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
19:08.34mafmhi Ralith
19:08.45mafmunfortunately I have to go now to go to hypermarket
19:08.52Ralithhey
19:08.57Ralithkk
19:09.04mafmbut I'd like to know about your progress, so if you can send me a brief or something, I would appreciate
19:09.09mafm(or to the mailing list also)
19:09.52Ralithwill be submitting my mocha patch to sourceforge
19:10.12mafmoki
19:10.14mafmbye
19:16.50pooliobrlcad: do you know how the ctl_points in the old nurbs system translates into (u,v), it's just a 1-d array and doesnt seem to be in any order
19:17.43Ralithkk, patch uploaded
20:19.44CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31894 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/namegen.c: More reworking - database opening and closing is no longer in the parsing routine, matching real world behavior.
20:24.01*** join/#brlcad homovulg1ris (n=d@117.196.128.26)
20:26.02Ralithsubmits Yet Another patch, this time improving the rt^3 src/other makefile
20:34.02Ralithhm
20:34.03Ralithso close :|
21:53.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31895 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/namegen.c: Starting to explore generating the strings. Some data structure evolution needed - this doesn't build right now, simply saving work - do NOT add to any build system yet.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080722

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080722

00:06.28*** join/#brlcad ewilhelm (n=ewilhelm@pool-71-111-83-56.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
00:37.42yukonbob_hello, cadheads
00:45.54*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:42.53CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31896 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: need a new tool to automatically model inside air
02:45.10CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31897 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: related to the text overlay support is the ability to have some toolt that will apply text data onto a given raster/rt image for things like adding a title, units, az/el, objects, etc.
03:22.35*** join/#brlcad jonored (n=jonored@c-76-19-120-77.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
03:34.24*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos__ (n=Me@dsl107.esjtvtli.sover.net)
06:04.32*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@217-162-111-193.dclient.hispeed.ch)
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08:20.23*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@61-69-25-250.netspeed.com.au)
08:37.54*** join/#brlcad homovulgaris (n=d@117.196.130.31)
09:01.03*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
09:03.43mafmhallo
09:31.07*** join/#brlcad homovulgaris (n=d@117.196.142.103)
10:04.38*** join/#brlcad archivist_emc (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
10:26.05CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31898 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (5 files): Adding button to show and cycle camera mode in the topbar, and adding a command too to cycle mode.
10:32.45*** join/#brlcad quentusrex (n=quentusr@c-71-197-244-228.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
10:43.57*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5B14E0E6.dip.t-dialin.net)
10:51.01*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
10:53.34*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.192.57)
11:15.57*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
11:16.16mafmhi again
11:52.24brlcadhowdy gents and gentettes
11:56.39mafmhowdy ho
12:08.13starseeker_howdy
12:08.30geocalcgentettes is a word ?
12:08.49jonoredapparently?
12:12.08brlcadit's a perfectly cromulent word
12:17.08*** join/#brlcad docelic_ (n=docelic@78.134.198.171)
12:17.08*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@58.171.217.127)
12:40.05starseeker_geocalc:  he's just engaging in the time honoured practice of adding features to the English language ;-)
12:49.31geocalc;)
13:05.45andrecastelohey guys
13:05.47andrecastelo:D
13:37.04Axman6brlcad: what do crumpets have to do with it?
13:40.25clock_brlcad: do you remember how we talked about the bug where parts of the Ronja holder were missing and parts enlarged, caused by some problems with arbn plane normalization?
13:42.18geocalcstrange i have to put a shortcut to /usr/lib/tk.tcl in /usr/local/lib to run brlcad also have to comment : uplevel \#0 [list source $::ttk::library/ttk.tcl] and :  namespace eval :: [list source [file join $::tk_library $file.tcl]]
13:43.12geocalcPackage: brlcad
13:43.12geocalcVersion: svn.31898-1
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13:43.23clock_Relais brisé lol :)
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13:48.38docelicCONGRATULATIONS GEOCALC
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13:49.08clock_E X C E S S                                             F L O O D
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13:49.39clock_E  X  C  E  S  S                                F  L  O  O  D
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13:50.10clock_-----E--X--C--E--S--S-------------------------F--L--O--O--D-------- :)
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13:51.31geocalc/usr/bin/upkg-show: line 36: echo: write error: Relais brisé (pipe)
13:51.33geocalc/usr/bin/upkg-show: line 36: echo: write error: Relais brisé (pipe)
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13:52.13geocalc/usr/bin/upkg-show: line 36: echo: write error: Relais brisé (pipe)
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13:52.27geocalc/usr/bin/upkg-show: line 36: echo: write error: Relais brisé (pipe)
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13:52.37geocalc/usr/bin/upkg-show: line 36: echo: write error: Relais brisé (pipe)
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13:52.47geocalc/usr/bin/upkg-show: line 36: echo: write error: Relais brisé (pipe)
13:52.49alex_joniwheee
13:52.49geocalc/usr/bin/upkg-show: line 36: echo: write error: Relais brisé (pipe)
13:52.51geocalc/usr/bin/upkg-show: line 36: echo: write error: Relais brisé (pipe)
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13:52.57geocalc/usr/bin/upkg-show: line 36: echo: write error: Relais brisé (pipe)
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13:53.11geocalc/usr/bin/upkg-show: line 36: echo: write error: Relais brisé (pipe)
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13:54.07geocalc/usr/bin/upkg-show: line 36: echo: write error: Relais brisé (pipe)
13:54.11geocalc/usr/bin/upkg-show: line 36: echo: write error: Relais brisé (pipe)
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13:55.11jonoredMeep.
13:55.11geocalc/usr/bin/upkg-show: line 36: echo: write error: Relais brisé (pipe)
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13:58.49geocalc/usr/bin/upkg-show: line 36: echo: write error: Relais brisé (pipe)
13:58.49alex_jonigeocalc: it should be enough now.. we get the point
13:58.51geocalc/usr/bin/upkg-show: line 36: echo: write error: Relais brisé (pipe)
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13:59.39geocalc/usr/bin/upkg-show: line 36: echo: write error: Relais brisé (pipe)
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14:00.29*** join/#brlcad geocalc (n=geocalc@91-171-218-234.rev.libertysurf.net)
14:02.13geocalcsorry again
14:09.56elite01whoa, nice one
14:09.59elite01shakes his head
14:12.17Axman6how did he even manage that :|
14:12.23alex_jonigood client?
14:13.39*** join/#brlcad geocalc (n=geocalc@91-171-218-234.rev.libertysurf.net)
14:15.13Axman6i know irssi whinges when i paste more than 4 lines of text
14:15.55geocalci wanted only two
14:17.02geocalcthe pipe here is broken now i don''t know why
14:19.00geocalcit send so much error messages and i didn't realise it was continuing to send it :(
14:39.43*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@58.171.217.127)
14:40.36PrezKennedygeocalc, so how many lines did that run for? that totally filled up my buffer :P
14:40.41PrezKennedyi have it set for like 500 lines
15:53.41CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31899 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/namegen.c: Add another test case, activate type based extension logic in parser, comment out busted code so it at least builds again. Need to work on argc+argv.
15:59.21geocalcPrezKennedy=<< i don't know sorry
16:00.49geocalchow i change color of cammand line tool ?
16:03.20*** join/#brlcad homovulgaris (n=d@117.196.141.32)
16:33.54louipcgeocalc: hah! what client do you use?
16:59.37pooliolouipc: xchat :P
16:59.50poolioThat's quite a lot of errors..heh
17:06.40mafmhuh, shift-grips input mode from MGED is pretty hairy :D
17:23.09*** join/#brlcad homovulgaris (n=d@117.196.130.224)
17:32.20CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31900 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch.c: add rt_sketch_contains() to find whether a 2D point is inside or outside a closed sketch (or an open sketch automatically closed by revolve); currently only working for line segments only.
17:40.15CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31901 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraModeBlender.cxx CameraModeBlender.h): Fixing some missing things when finishing functions, or badly typed ones, etc
17:40.45CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31902 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/ (revolve.c revolve.h): update rt_revolve_shot() to use rt_sketch_contains(); revolve now works for sketches on both sides of the revolve axis
17:51.23*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
17:55.56mafmseesh
17:56.02mafmI feel the need to use a goto!
17:56.50pacman87dont' do it! http://xkcd.com/292/
17:59.19poolioHeh, there's a few gotos scattered throughout BRL-CAD
17:59.32archivistor http://www.fortran.com/come_from.html
18:00.47mafmpacman87: lol, I love xkcd
18:02.07mafmlol
18:02.17mafmI'm doing it with a common function instead
18:02.32mafmbut I think that it's less meaningful than with the goto
18:05.33pacman87archivist: so if you have two COME FROM statments from the same place, is that how you create a new execution thread?
18:06.06archivistor see http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~malcolmr/intercal/threaded.html
18:09.24pacman87pretty pictures: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_rt17.png
18:09.29pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_rt18.png
18:09.33pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_rt19.png
18:10.53louipcfunkey
18:26.31CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31903 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/namegen.c: warn now if objects have a valid extension that doesn't match type of object, and replace extenstion if it isn't an extension for ANY type. Insert increment string if none is found in the correct place.
18:28.02*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-82-106.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:05.26CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31904 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/blt/Makefile.am: add build dependancy information
19:05.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31905 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: update dependancy information
19:31.58*** join/#brlcad cerrayo (n=cerrayo@c-67-160-127-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
19:39.56CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31906 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcVariable.h: Modifications to Variable constructor : initalization list instead of assignment and specialization for type double : default domain/interval addition using numeric_limits
20:42.36``Erikyeah, there are a couple gotos in BRL-CAD, and those poor coders suffered the dinosaur attacks for it :(
21:09.36CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31907 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/namegen.c: Add basic functionality to re-assemble names from parsed data. (Thanks Bob Parker for looking over the code and spotting my BU_LIST mistake.) Now that the functionality is in place, need to explore use of argc and argv.
21:11.30CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31908 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (8 files):
21:11.30CIA-22BRL-CAD: Interface reorganization: functors communicate directly to the PCSet output
21:11.30CIA-22BRL-CAD: object of the Parser class. Functor code location changed to new pcGenerator.*
21:11.30CIA-22BRL-CAD: files. pcVariable.cpp necessitated due to the specialization in r31906
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080723

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080723

00:17.30*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
00:34.32*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
01:11.08*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
02:36.17brlcadreturns home semi-exhausted
02:39.27brlcadandrecastelo: so there are several ways to shoot secondary rays
02:40.09brlcadand yes, rt shoots secondary rays -- though it does so as part of the phong calculations (and some of it is done by liboptical
02:40.49brlcadrt_shootray is ultimately what fires a ray so looking for that call is a very strong indicator and good place to start for finding whom all is shooting rays (and why)
02:51.13brlcadyou can trace down how rt does it by following rt's hit callback (colorview) which leads you to liboptical (via viewshade) which leads you to ... more stuff, but that direction won't readily help you understand
03:05.36brlcadandrecastelo: I'd say just first write your own ray-trace test app where you fire your own ray using rt_shootray (or undersand rtexample.c and/or rt_simple.c)
03:17.08*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=timothy@71.170.63.120)
03:21.34CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31909 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/rtexample.c: start merging in the additional comments from rt_simple.c into rtexample.c -- there only needs to be one 'simple' example.
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03:52.39yukonbobhello, cadheads
03:52.45pacman87hi yukonbob
03:52.55yukonbobhow're things, pacman87?
03:53.32pacman87pretty good; finally tracked down a bug caused by one character (2 instead of 1)
03:54.16Ralithanother?
03:54.25pacman87right now i'm wondering why my kde panel stops 83% of the way across the screen
03:54.37pacman87Ralith: the last bug was 4 characters
03:54.40pacman87j++;
03:57.48louipcI'm wondering why brl-cad doesn't like tcl 8.5.3 :/
03:57.57yukonboblouipc: interesting...
03:58.20Ralithpacman87: bah.
03:58.34yukonbobis re-attacking 8.5.3 on his machine, which happens to be NetBSD -current, just to make things even more difficult...
04:05.08brlcadlouipc: define "doesn't like"
04:05.36Ralithmafm: ping?
04:06.57brlcadRalith: your patches are high in my to-be-reviewed queue just so you know
04:07.25Ralithcool :D
04:07.28Raliththanks
04:07.47Raliththey're all very straightforward, except for that X11 mouse handling bit which might not even be necessary
04:07.56brlcadnods
04:08.07Ralithonce I can get g3d building, I can test that
04:08.14Ralithogre's proving to be very finnicky though
04:08.37Ralithhave to touch ogre.cfg in ./ before it'll even init, and now it wants some png that I don't have
04:18.08pacman87for some reason, kde thinks my monitor is 1400x1050 instead of 1680x1050 when maximizing windows
04:18.38pacman87but the desktop background is lined up and centered properly
04:20.19RalithO.o
04:20.29Ralithlightweight and simple DEs ftw
04:21.09poolioRalith: what do you run? :P
04:21.15pooliopacman87: restart X?
04:21.38Ralithpoolio: xfce at the moment, but if I was less lazy I'd have transitioned over to something even lighter like fluxbox
04:23.19poolioCool cool. I went KDE -> xfce -> fluxbox -> ratpoision -> xmonad
04:24.04yukonbobnext stop is running everything in text mode on a wrist watch and imagining what it would look like if graphical...
04:24.17RalithI don't even use any part of xfce but the WM and the keybindings
04:24.17brlcadwow, what a nasty thunderstorm
04:24.34Ralithyukonbob: no, you always need X for web browsing if nothing else
04:24.47yukonbobRalith: links, w3m...
04:25.00yukonbobvesafb
04:25.18brlcadyay for having all computers and networking equipment on ups'
04:25.41Ralithyukonbob: all kind of suck.
04:25.52brlcad(as the power drops in an out about two dozens times over the past two minutes alone)
04:25.53Ralithand are suitable for emergency fallbacks.
04:26.08pooliobrlcad: That bit missed north of me...but I fear the next part
04:26.19yukonbobuses elinks, and firefox as an emergency backup these days... :P
04:26.24pooliobrlcad: I have nothing on UPS...uh oh
04:26.30brlcadheh, eep
04:28.20brlcadwow .. so much lightning.....
04:28.35brlcadpower is fluctuating mad .. hadn't seen this bad in years
04:28.58brlcadbets he'll lose power hard eventually
04:29.07pooliobrlcad: You must be in that bright red area :P
04:29.56louipcbrlcad: oh it decides to build the bundled 8.5.1
04:30.43brlcadlouipc: config.log should say why it's thinking it fails
04:32.16brlcadahh.. so that's what they mean by "severe thunderstorm warning" for this area
04:33.05poolioHasn't it passed you by now?
04:33.19brlcadhail, wind gusts to 60mph
04:33.27brlcadnope, it's roaring outside right now
04:33.40pooliobrlcad: unrelated: if I'm interested in continuing work on beset and working with some CMU people, is that all kosher? There's no conflict with CMU and ARL?
04:33.45louipcbrlcad: yeah I peeked at it but I can't really make sense of it
04:33.49louipchttp://louipc.yi.org/brlcad/config.log
04:34.18louipclooks like it wants 8.6 or something?
04:34.20louipcshrugs
04:35.13brlcadlouipc: no, keep reading -- it tries versions in order
04:35.41brlcadso 8.6 failed (naturally), but checking for Tcl_Main in -ltcl8.5 actually succeeds, so the lib check passed
04:36.17brlcadthe other two potential checks are header checks (which tcl doesn't directly check for) and a functionality/sanity check (which is what is probably is failing)
04:37.36brlcadah, tcl does have a header check, my bad -- but it passed
04:38.34brlcader...
04:38.35brlcadconfigure:42641: checking whether to build Tcl
04:38.35brlcadconfigure:42662: result: no
04:39.35brlcadaha..
04:39.36brlcadconfigure:43388: WARNING: Unable to find a system incrTcl compatible with the available system Tcl
04:39.39brlcadconfigure:43390: WARNING: Enabling compilation of both Tcl and incrTcl
04:40.00brlcadthat should have been visible in your basic configure output too
04:41.00brlcadpoolio: of course it's kosher, it's encouraged
04:41.02louipcah, thanks
04:41.35brlcadlouipc .. now whether the itcl test should have failed, that's another story
04:43.10brlcadlouipc: ah, looks like you didn't have a system incrTcl according to the tests, so the failure is correct/intentional
04:43.42brlcadthough using our incrtcl against a system 8.5 should be fine -- right now it just tries an all-or-nothing in order to support the macs
04:44.55louipcah. It used to be cool with system tcl + bundled itcl
04:45.13brlcadit is/was/still is
04:45.20brlcadjust so long as the versions match up
04:46.01brlcadmacs have 8.4 installed and it was finding it .. but no itcl installed, and 8.4 doesn't work with our incrtcl sources (they require 8.5)
05:03.17louipchmm!
05:07.32CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31910 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac:
05:07.32CIA-22BRL-CAD: per louipc's discoverage, make the warning about mixing non-system incrtcl with
05:07.32CIA-22BRL-CAD: system tcl a lot more in-thy-face obvious during output. for his case, though,
05:07.32CIA-22BRL-CAD: he was trying the one version that should work (8.5) so try to make that work.
05:09.08brlcadgive that a go
05:14.09brlcadpoolio: what you're suggesting strongly relates to this topic:  http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas#CSG_ray-trace_optimizations
05:14.25brlcadparticularly the last two sentances ;)
05:16.08pooliobrlcad: ah yes.
05:29.17CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31911 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/rtexample.c: merge in the rest of rt_simple.c's comments including a plethora of new ones by yours truely.
05:31.32Ralithpoolio: CMU?
05:32.31CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31912 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/ (Makefile.am rt_simple.c): ding dong, rt_simple.c is no longer with us. it overlapped with rtexample.c too much so the two were merged into one.
05:33.19*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-95-3.dclient.hispeed.ch)
05:33.41louipcCarnegie Mellon University?
05:35.31brlcadnods
05:36.28poolioaye.
05:50.02Ralithah.
05:50.53Ralithmight apply there
05:53.25CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03louipc * r31913 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: Fix problem with quotes.
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07:22.18brlcadreyawns
07:26.31Ralithdeyawns
07:32.26CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31914 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: there is no rt_simple, but could use one for rtexample if it's going to be installed
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08:53.53mafmRalith: are you there?
08:58.32*** join/#brlcad elmom (n=elmom@hoasnet-ff04dd00-187.dhcp.inet.fi)
09:02.04Ralithmafm: sorry, heading off now
09:02.08Ralithcheck your email though
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13:20.16CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31915 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraMode.cxx CameraMode.h): Adding Axis enumerator useful for some of the modes (Shift-grips at least), and renaming of variables to be more correct.
14:03.29CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31916 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraManager.cxx CameraModeMGED.cxx CameraModeMGED.h): Initial commit for my work on MGED mode. At the moment only scaling works, and not very well...
14:07.45CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31917 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcParser.cpp pcParser.h): remove deprecated warning by using boost::spirit::classic instead of boost::spirit
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14:35.14mafmyahhoooooo
14:41.54CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31918 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraMode.cxx CameraMode.h): More renamings, forgot about these before...
14:46.57CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31919 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraModeMGED.cxx CameraModeMGED.h): I think that at last I got the scale commands right, and in a simpler way than I was expecting...
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15:04.56mafmaloha pacman87
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15:15.46pacman87hi mafm
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15:34.05CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31920 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraModeMGED.cxx CameraModeMGED.h): Variable renaming, for consistency
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16:53.30CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31921 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (4 files): Implementing basic translation for Shift-grips mode, although not working very well at the moment...
17:21.26mafmgotta go, laters
17:33.09CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31922 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/namegen.c: add first cut at argc+argv mechanism
17:47.50CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31923 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/namegen.c: Succeeding with multiple tests.
18:28.25homovulgarislongs for heterogeneous STL containers
18:43.58``Erikum, yeah, that's one reason I keep going back to scheme/lisp
18:53.28homovulgaris:) scheme is awesome.. <- tautology
19:18.49jonoredstill has the impulse to start writing reader macros and the like to load other languages into lisp...
19:43.44pacman87can i tell 'attach X' to attach to a different X session?
19:45.22louipchow about if if you set DISPLAY?
19:45.58pacman87how?
19:46.45poolioDISPLAY=:0.1 mged -c ...
19:47.18``Erik(if in bash, csh is a little... different)
19:47.35pooliotrue true :) I've been using exclusively bsah for ... ever
19:47.46louipcme too
19:48.03pacman87Starting an X display manager
19:48.03pacman87X Error of failed request:  BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes)
19:48.22pooliopacman87: It may not be :0.1, it might be :1 or something
19:48.49pacman87:0.0 is the current session
19:49.25poolioTry it with :1.0 or just :1
19:49.26``Erikhost:server.workspace
19:49.41poolioyeah that :)
19:49.49``Erik:0 is equivelant to localhost:0.0 and server 0 means port 6000
19:49.55``Erik:1 is 6001, ...
19:52.17pacman87'DISPLAY=:0.1 kedit' works as expected
19:52.38pacman87but 'DISPLAY=:0.1 mged' fails
19:57.02``Erikneat, what about 'wish' or 'bwish'?
19:57.21``ErikTK might have some "extra special" relationship to this task O.o :)
20:28.45*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
20:42.34pacman87i'm getting 'interesting' raytraces from overlapping geometry
20:43.13pacman87ie, rectangle from -1,-1 to 2,1
20:43.27pacman87revolved more than 180 degrees
20:47.51pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_rt20.png
20:50.02pacman87^^ that's from (-4,-1) to (8,1) revolved 270deg
20:52.51CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31924 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/namegen.c: Misc tweaks, add note about switching parser to use regex
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22:13.05``Erikheh, this was too good, on the drive home, annoying little honda civic 'si' with the fart cannon and everything, license plate said "baka"
22:13.14``Erik(japanese for "stupid", for those who don't know)
22:13.41pacman87you should've taken a pic
22:14.18``ErikI wish I had a camera
22:20.08PrezKennedyive always got one with me now
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22:22.47``Erik<-- can't carry one when he goes to work
22:23.03pacman87i couldn't either, last summer
22:23.24pacman87had a bit of trouble finding a cell phone without one
22:25.15louipcyeah it's ridiculous
22:25.31louipcyou can't buy just a phone anymore
22:27.08pacman87i ended up getting a motorola L6 and swapping for my mom's L2
22:39.34CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31925 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (8 files): De-templating the Constraint object since it should not have been based on a template in the first place. need to sort out a preexisting segfault in the solver
22:41.53homovulg1risgave up cellphones 6 months ago :)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080724

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080724

01:35.20yukonbobhello, cadheads
01:35.55starseeker_howdy
01:35.59starseeker_read read read...
01:39.34starseeker_pacman87:  Heh - when I see L6 I always think of Howard Clark's L6 katana blades:  http://swordforum.com/summer99/howardclark.html
01:39.38yukonbobis "read read read..." what you're doing, or what I should do?
01:39.44starseeker_what I'm doing
01:41.24brlcadhowdy yukonbob
01:41.30brlcadhasn't started the read read yet
01:46.17yukonbobhowdy brlcad :)
01:47.53brlcadpacman87: awesome new pics .. got negative quadrants working now it seems
01:48.11brlcadat least first and third
01:49.28pacman87brlcad: they're all working, of a sort
01:49.40pacman87the problem is with overlapping geometry
01:50.07pacman87if you have + and - sides of a sketch, you're fine unless you try to go more than 180 degrees
01:50.20pacman87then it ends up as an XOR-type thing
01:50.36brlcadtreat it like a union
01:51.23brlcadso if you have 1,1->1,-1 and -1,.5->-1,-.5 .. you get a cylinder
01:51.40brlcadI see them as sweeping solid space
01:52.04brlcadthat smaller left side shouldn't both create material and carve out the right me thinks
01:52.44pacman87ok, that will require more condition handling for sketches over 180 degrees
01:54.28brlcadseemed like it should simplify things
01:54.53pacman87no, because i'll have to determine which surfaces to ignore
01:55.08brlcadsince that's the same as treating the -x as the same as a +x curve, just only for half
01:55.32brlcaddo left and right independently, then you can merge your segment lists for the result
01:56.09brlcadjust have to trim all curves that cross from + to - x
01:56.43brlcadat least it's a thought, it's the thought that counts right? :)
01:57.22pacman87i'm already finding the angle for each hitpoint to determine whether it's valid
01:58.04brlcadjust seems to me like it should make things simpler .. at least over xor'ing
01:58.13pacman87i'm not doing anythign special to XOR
01:58.18pacman87it just happens naturally
01:58.51brlcadunless you go over 180
01:59.04pacman87no, only if you go over 180
01:59.16brlcadthen what's the problem? :)
01:59.22pacman87if it's under 180 the + and - sides dont' interfere
02:00.42pacman87in this image: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_rt20.png
02:00.58pacman87the holes are caused because the top and bottom surface are traced twice
02:01.12pacman87once for +, once for -
02:01.27brlcadg'dammit .. that utexas.edu server sends the wrong mime type every so often
02:01.40pacman87um... sorry?
02:01.42brlcadreally wierd/craptastic
02:01.53brlcadit spews the png data as binary into the browser
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02:01.59pacman87fun
02:02.07brlcadtill something resets, and it's fine
02:02.08pacman87that's the lynx compatibality mode
02:02.12pacman87;)
02:02.49pacman87anyway, the curved hole surfaces are from valid hits on the - side
02:02.53brlcadso what am I looking at in 20?  what's the sketch?
02:03.01pacman87two vertical lines
02:03.08pacman87one at -4, the other at +8
02:03.14pacman87from -1 to 1 in y
02:03.25pacman87it's 270 degrees
02:04.24brlcadhuh? i'm missing a coordinate or a reference frame
02:04.31brlcad"at -4" ..
02:04.45brlcadand what way is the image oriented
02:04.57pacman87ae -135 60
02:05.14pacman87so +z is up through the center
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02:05.25pacman87+x is upper right
02:05.32pacman87going away
02:06.21pacman87you want the .g to play with?
02:07.51pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/neg3.g
02:09.05brlcadarg, I don't have a recent compile .. this might take a bit
02:10.11brlcaddoes a g2asc and sees the values anyways
02:10.59brlcad{-4 -1} {-4 1} {8 -1} {8 1} helps ;)
02:12.57pooliobrlcad: Holy cow it is pouring :P
02:13.07brlcadnay a drop here :)
02:13.40poolioHeh, it was the same way when you had rain and I didn't last night. I just got home and the roads were crazy...a lot of lights were out and a few roads were flooded out
02:15.47pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_rt20b.png
02:16.13pacman87added coord axes: z=black; x=red; y=green;
02:16.37brlcadheh, did you manually draw that? :)
02:16.41pacman87yeah :)
02:16.47brlcadthanks, I figured that much
02:18.09brlcadwhat bothers me about that is the first 90 on the -x side (third quadrant
02:18.40pacman87the bottom hole?
02:18.48brlcadsince if you just had -4,-1->-4,1 that would be filled in ..
02:18.51brlcadyes
02:19.22pacman87but the +x side from 180 to 270 overlaps that
02:19.30pacman87giving zero-length hit segments
02:19.34pacman87which are ignored
02:19.36brlcadlikewise, the fact that 2nd quadrant is filled, I'd expect that to be open
02:20.14pacman87quad II is only swept once
02:20.32pacman87by the + side only
02:20.45pacman87quad IV is only swept by the - side
02:20.47brlcadah, right right
02:22.14pacman87i'm assuming you still want it fixed (ie, holes filled in)
02:23.14brlcadi could be convinced either way really since it's sort of an "exceptional use" I think
02:24.15brlcadjust seems to ask for issues .. e.g. what does 1,1->-1,-1 and -1,1->1,-1 give you (i.e. an X)
02:24.30brlcadnothing? two cylinders?
02:24.40pacman87if it's symmetric, you get nothing from a 360 revolve
02:25.52pacman87for a 180 degree, you'd get two cones
02:26.29pacman87a 270 would look the same as a -90
02:38.07brlcadtrying to think of a case where that's actually useful
02:39.35brlcad(where either union or xor is more desired)
02:40.02pacman87xor is faster, as it requires no additional tests/code
02:40.14pacman87at least the way i have it coded now
02:43.09brlcadhm, there is one benefit of xor
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02:45.14brlcadwith the union approach, you can obviously get the same result (with a 360) by using |x| for your curve or by unioning two separate revolves with |x| and ofsetting one 180
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02:46.06brlcadwith xor, there are some shapes that you cannot get
02:46.22brlcadat least not without subtractions and only performing partial rotations, etc
02:46.41brlcada bit more complicated
02:47.09Ralithunion seems a lot more intuitive
02:51.13pooliobrlcad: will I be seeing you tomorrow? :)
02:51.44brlcadRalith: can you think of a shape where you'd intentionally model the revolve curve over into -x though and expect/need that unioned result
02:51.57brlcadpoolio: heh
03:02.03Ralithbrlcad: well, say you wanted a disk with a ridge extending out for 270 degrees, but absent for the rest
03:02.42Ralithyou could rotate a rectangle with a ridge on one end around its center 270 degrees, and if it unioned you'd get that
03:03.27Ralithof course, there are all sorts of other ways to do that
03:03.53pacman87Ralith: give me 5 min to make that sketch
03:04.16Ralith5 min? It's a painfully simple sketch :P
03:04.36pacman87i'm writing the sketch by hand, and doing the math in my head
03:04.39pacman87i was estimating
03:05.01Ralithsay, 1,1 -> 1,-1 -> -1,-1 -> -2,0 -> -1,1 -> 1,1
03:05.23Ralithmath?
03:07.54pacman87Ralith: that won't work
03:08.59pacman87...at least not with xor
03:09.34Ralithhuh?
03:09.38Raliththat was a union example
03:09.42pacman87oh
03:09.52RalithI can't think of a case where you'd want an xor
03:14.16pacman87if you need a union, split the rev into two parts less than 180 and combine them
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03:14.43pacman87if you want an XOR, you can't get it if it defaults to a union
03:15.03brlcadyou can, it just takes a few more operations
03:15.23pacman87(A-B) U (B-A)
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03:22.37pacman87just found a new bug :(
03:23.31pacman87note to self: when testing shapes, don't always put the center at the origin, and line the vectors up with the axes...
03:26.07brlcadpacman87: another argument against xor approach.. any +x curve rotated beyond 360 would wipe itself out
03:26.36brlcadinstead of what I'd intuitively expect where anything >360 == 360
03:27.41pacman87no, seperate code path for > 360
03:30.26brlcadwell then that sort of breaks the behavior consistency
03:31.38brlcadi mean that the same reasoning that might result in xor being okay from 180->360 is similar to a +x-only curve for 360->720
03:34.01pacman87brlcad: it's still an xor
03:34.19pacman87but it treats everythign over 360 as 360 exactly
03:35.16brlcadthat's my point
03:35.43pacman87sorry, i'm not seeing what you're trying to say
03:36.08brlcadthat "but" case is the only reason it doesn't subtract away, where behaviorally I would expect it to
03:36.54brlcadthat is, i would expect it to iff it's using xor behavior
03:37.09pacman87(10:27:00 PM) brlcad: instead of what I'd intuitively expect where anything >360 == 360
03:37.17brlcadwith xor behavior, 360 != 361
03:37.43brlcadright, intuitive modeling intent behavior, I would expect >360==360
03:37.50brlcadbut not if it's xor'ing
03:38.13pacman87it xor's the + and - half of the revolve
03:38.19brlcadi'd expect it to oscillate on/off depending on the angle
03:39.10pacman87the way to handle >360 would be to rework the start vector and angle behind the scenes
03:39.24pacman87if you want it to keep xoring
03:40.33brlcadwasn't saying it couldn't be dealt with, just that I would expect it to behave that way if it's going to xor for 180-to-360 angles for -x curves
03:41.25brlcadthat said, i'm not seeing the benefit vs. expected behavior still for why you'd specifically want an xor'd result -- some specific meaningful shape
03:41.26pacman87so you want consistancy
03:41.48pacman87it doesnt' really matter to me much either way
03:41.58pacman87i'm just throwing out the options
03:42.10pacman87so "what i code" == "what you want"
03:42.15brlcadi mean, it could be an option when you create the revolve, could ask which way to behave .. but then that's more work and probably not necessary :)
03:42.23brlcadheh
03:42.49brlcad"what I want" == "everything"!
03:43.37pacman87does than mean i have to go back and set the universal constanst so that the universe evolves to contain a hard disk with your 'everything'?
03:44.23brlcadyes please
03:45.03brlcadthe universe with hookers and blackjack
03:45.09brlcadin fact, forget the universe
03:47.15pacman87so, final decision = union?
03:47.20brlcadpacman87: see what daniel says about the revolve, but my inclination would probably still by my original assertion that a union behavior is more what I would expect (and overall simpler to account for consistently)
03:48.04pacman87ok
03:48.55brlcadnot to mention a hell of a lot easier to document and explain
03:49.13brlcadif some twisted soul wants xor behavior, he can do the subtractions and union ops himself
03:49.33pacman87awww, i kinda liked catering to the twisted soul
03:50.05brlcadmm.. sounds like the name of a rock band
03:50.20pacman87'catering to the twisted soul'?
03:50.40brlcadyeah or even just 'twisted soul'
03:50.56brlcadlonger could be their cover song
03:51.12pacman87right
03:51.13brlcadwaits for punkrockgirl to write and sing it
03:51.27pacman87i managed a segfault with 'l revolve'
03:51.42pacman87now i've got 3 bugs to fix
03:53.19brlcadl revolve should be an easy one
03:53.26pacman87yeah
03:53.36pacman87i'm pretty sure i know how to fix them all
03:55.39pacman87i still havent' managed to convince KDE that my monitor is 1680 px wide
03:56.14brlcadstill?
03:56.22brlcadthat something new? what changed?
03:56.45pacman87i turned off twinview
03:57.04pacman87it was giving me trouble playing bzflag :D
03:57.14pacman87so now i have three seperate X sessoins
03:57.54brlcadheh
03:57.58andrecastelohey guys
03:58.03pacman87hi andrecastelo
03:58.04brlcadhello andrecastelo
03:58.12andrecastelohey pacman87, hey brlcad
03:58.17brlcadandrecastelo: how are the secondary rays coming?
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03:59.09brlcaddon't linger too long on those -- you really need to get into the depths of path tracing soon (which requires secondary rays)
03:59.19pacman87we should schedule a mentors vs gsocers bzflag match ;)
03:59.23andrecasteloi've been taking a look into rtexample.c and rt_simple.c and the idea is to set a new direction and a new point and fire again, right ?
03:59.37brlcadpretty much
03:59.40andrecasteloand perhaps write another function to handle those secondary rays
03:59.56brlcadlook at the new rtexample.c -- i merged the two
04:00.06andrecastelook, will svn
04:00.16brlcadsame code, just more comments
04:00.26andrecastelookay
04:00.54andrecastelortexample uses a main(), so there's the place to set the new points and directions
04:01.48andrecastelobut which function works like that in a callback way (as is viewmlt.c ) ? i need to look into to which function it goes after it shoots the rays
04:03.25brlcadat least one of the functions in viewmlt.c is basically a callback to rt_shootray() already -- just one that is being called for you by the code that shoots the original primary rays in a grid
04:03.48brlcadinside that callback, you set up a struct application ap for each secondary ray
04:04.03brlcadand call rt_shootray() yourself with your own callback(s)
04:04.49andrecastelohm, setting up a flag, perhaps, in mlt_app, to ensure no recursion madness (so the secondary rays dont call secondary rays)?
04:05.39brlcaddepending on what you need to do, recursion may be desirable
04:05.46brlcadnow for shadows, you don't need recursion
04:05.53brlcadbut for path-tracing...
04:06.05brlcadthat's sort of exactly how basic path tracing works
04:06.50brlcadotherwise, though, you'll only end up with a recursive-potential-infinite-loop if you make your hit/miss callback also call that same hit/miss callback
04:07.11brlcadyou wouldn't call the same view callback though for the secondary rays
04:07.27andrecastelogot it, i was misunderstanding
04:07.37brlcadyou'd call your own
04:10.35Ralithsmacks ogre around a bit with a large abort
04:12.33pacman87how do i append a bu_vls to another bu_vls?
04:16.20brlcadbu_vls_vlscat()
04:16.37pacman87where are those?
04:16.52brlcadbu_vls_vlscatzap() if you're done with the one being added
04:17.14pacman87this is for describe()
04:17.16brlcadthey're all in include/bu.h -- but easier to read the documentation in src/libbu/vls.c
04:17.47brlcadit's on my todo to move all docs into the headers, but that's a hell of a lot of work.. :)
04:22.07brlcadwow, the website is getting about 32k hits/day
04:22.20pacman87which site?
04:22.24brlcadbrlcad.org
04:22.27pacman87impressive
04:22.37pacman87unique?
04:22.50brlcadno, indiv. requests
04:23.18pacman87turns on opera auto-reload every 2 seconds
04:23.44brlcadlooks like at least in the last 24 hours, 1081 unique IPs
04:24.06pacman8732 pages per user average
04:24.29brlcads/pages/requests/
04:24.55pacman87hits != pages ?
04:25.07brlcadfirst page is about 7 requests
04:25.22pacman87so, 4.5 pages
04:26.05pacman87bugcount--;
04:26.13pacman87fixed the segfault
04:26.13brlcadlooks like it
04:26.26brlcadfairly small sample, but interesting nonetheless
04:26.37brlcad~pacman87++
04:27.33pacman87describe was still treating the sketch name as a *char instead of a vls
04:27.56pacman87~karma
04:27.56ibotpacman87 has karma of 4
04:28.06pacman87thought it was 2...
04:28.38pacman87not complaining
04:30.06brlcad~pacman87++
04:30.34brlcadyou know you can get a char* from a vls too, yes?
04:30.39brlcadbu_vls_addr() ftw
04:31.24pacman87i assumed vls->vls would be better
04:31.32pacman87rather than vls->char*->vls
04:31.45pacman87bugcount--;
04:31.55pacman87now there's one left
04:32.00pacman87that i know of
04:35.23CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31926 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c: two bugfixes: segfault in describe() due to change from char* to bu_vls; and ignore the start/end planes for full revolves (>360)
04:35.37brlcad120,224 bytes in 6 files to be exact (on the main page)
04:35.53brlcadoh sure, much better
04:36.07pacman87hmm?
04:36.12brlcadi just meant in general
04:36.23brlcadusing bu_vls_addr() if you need a char*
04:36.31pacman87ah, ok
04:36.32brlcadif you can stick to vls use, even better
04:37.17pacman87sorry, my bugfixing took over my local context
04:37.33pacman87needs a bigger L2 cache
04:37.57pacman87but going to bed would probably work too
04:38.11pacman87since i need to be up early enough to catch d_rossburg
04:39.10brlcadyou can always hit him up on the mailing list too
04:40.02pacman87if i dont catch him tomorrow morning, i'll do that
04:40.08pacman87good night
04:40.13brlcadcya1
04:43.25PrezKennedy~karma
04:43.25ibotprezkennedy has karma of 3
04:47.28Ralithwho's bot is ibot?
04:49.04Ralithalso: cool about the high traffic
04:49.07Ralithwonder what's generating interest
04:49.11Ralithany common referrers?
04:49.23yukonbob~karma
04:49.23ibotyukonbob has karma of 2
04:49.41yukonbobpasses hat for karma
04:49.55Ralith~karma
04:49.55ibotralith has neutral karma
04:49.58Ralithaw :[
04:50.10yukonbobyou're the switzerland of karma
04:50.17Raliththat's not so bad
04:50.33RalithI have a full on citizen militia
04:57.39brlcadRalith: I didn't dig into the stats much further -- I'll do something more comprehensive and automated later, maybe at the anniversary
04:58.29brlcadthe bot is run by tim on one of his systems
04:58.57brlcadon a couple hundred channels at last check
04:59.08brlcadand probably the largest factoid database for an irc bot
04:59.23yukonbob~brlcad
04:59.23ibotsomebody said brlcad was like a learner wrapped in tofu best served chilled
04:59.39brlcad~stats
04:59.39ibotSince Mon Jul 14 18:39:43 2008, there have been 143 modifications, 1468 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 1061 commands.  I have been awake for 9d 10h 19m 56s this session, and currently reference 115036 factoids.  I'm using about 21096 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 23166.69/1095.29 child 0.01/0.02
05:08.06yukonbobinstalls
05:08.14yukonbobtcl 8.5, listening:
05:08.18yukonbobBoards of Canada
05:08.22yukonbob^- a haiku
05:09.25PrezKennedy~prezkennedy
05:09.33yukonbob(read "8.5" "Eight Five")
05:09.34PrezKennedyaww :(
05:21.53louipccatering to the twisted soul eh?
05:22.40louipcwith human flesh. Death Metal!
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10:34.32louipchi
10:40.23homovulg2rishi :D
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13:03.56andrecastelobrlcad: got it to shoot secondary rays and to use another function for the secondary hits.. the algorithm in the secondary rays hit function is a stub (it shades again), i need to work on that now
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13:58.00pacman87~seen d_rossberg
13:58.01ibotd_rossberg <n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 7d 22h 35m 31s ago, saying: '(if not along a coordinate axis)'.
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14:26.26mafmnetwork network network
14:26.45CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31927 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c: Added secondary rays support. rayhit() calls secondary_hit(). The algorithm in secondary_hit() needs to be changed, though.
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16:01.40CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31928 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcVariable.cpp pcVariable.h): making VariableAbstract more than an empty class by shifting data from Variable<T> templates
16:58.57CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31929 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch.c: add carc support to rt_sketch_contains()
17:46.25CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31930 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcVariable.cpp pcVariable.h solver_test.cpp): adding intersectInterval() function to Domain object , which among many other things would be helpful in implementing implicit constraints which result only in domain reduction
18:09.53pacman87<PROTECTED>
18:09.53pacman87<PROTECTED>
18:12.07CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31931 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcBasic.h: scheduled removal/cleanup
18:39.49louipcyeh I got that too
18:40.06louipcmged seemed to work ok
18:40.36pacman87i just went back to autogen.sh and configure
18:43.53CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31932 10/brlcad/trunk/include/vmath.h: add V2ADD3() to vmath.h
18:44.33louipcwoo
18:47.30louipcdo your floats conform to IEEE 754?
18:47.39louipcconfigure:38682: checking whether floats conform to IEEE 754
18:47.43pacman87i think i got that warning too
18:49.48pacman87configure:38993: WARNING: The floating point implementation does not seem to be IEEE 754
18:49.49pacman87configure:38995: WARNING: compliant.  The behavior or htond and htonf may be incorrect.
18:50.40pacman87s/or/of?
18:52.58CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31933 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: fix minor typo in warning, spotted by pacman87
18:53.01``Eriklooks right to me
18:54.39pacman87hmm, autogen.sh and configure didn't fix the  "WARNING: Too many of the pkgIndex.tcl and tclIndex files are empty."
18:55.12``ErikI get that, too... not sure why, haven't dug into it (what I do seems to work, so I haven't been concerned)
18:55.24``Erikthe annoying thing is that I have to svn revert -R src/tclscripts once in a while
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19:33.10CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r31934 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: Eliminated call to exit() and added memory clean-up to shutdown method
20:09.50pacman87is it possible to alias commands within mged
20:28.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31935 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/tire.c:
20:28.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: Fix problem with nicks being removed from tread - turned out to be a problem
20:28.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: with the trimming of the tread ellipse, which was trimming material from inside
20:28.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: the tread as well as outside. Switched to using two trimming cyls getting only
20:28.55CIA-22BRL-CAD: the necessary outer parts - tread now renders without visual defect.
20:31.11CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31936 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: note fix to tire tool in NEWS file.
20:39.19brlcadpoolio: in your home dir again
20:40.29homovulgarisbrlcad: i was doing some header include cleanup .. to use std::string we don't need to have any #includes ?
20:40.52brlcadpacman87: sure, you can create a proc that calls any number of other procs, even overriding commands already provided
20:41.32brlcadhomovulgaris: what do you mean?  should include <string> I'd think, no?
20:41.52homovulgarisyeah that was what i was thinking.. but it compiles fine :P
20:42.19brlcadif you use it, include it
20:42.22homovulgarisanyways.. good coding practice is to #include <string> :)
20:42.26homovulgarisi guess
20:42.53brlcadjust means somewhere earlier in the header dependency chain, someone else needed it and is including it
20:43.00brlcadbut that's not a guarantee
20:43.37brlcadso you should alwways include what a given file uses -- either its interface header (which includes what its implementation needs) and/or including the necessary implementation headers
20:44.20homovulgarishmm.. :)
20:44.36brlcadis rather pedantic on headers
20:44.44brlcads/pedantic/picky/
20:45.31homovulgarison another note i was almost about to delve into RTTI ..I think i should search for a better solution.. basically the issue is I want to support constraints which support multiple Variable types
20:45.55brlcadyeah, I think you need a really good reason to start using rtti
20:46.05brlcadthat causes a handful of portability problems
20:46.23brlcadif your project wasn't so important, I would have said "absolutely no" :)
20:46.51brlcadbut as a last resort, he can try to make the headaches work if needed
20:47.05homovulgarisI don't want to use it either.. I just need to write a heterogeneous container
20:47.06brlcadstill, if you can find a better solution, it would probably be preferred
20:48.06pacman87i'm pretty sure a bug is in revolve.c lines 302-344, so if someone wants to lend a fresh set of eyes to it, i'd appreciate it
20:48.19brlcadah, yeah, there are better ways to get to that end (change the problem, use multiple containers, use a base class, type identifiers, even void* marshalling)
20:49.03pacman87the problem is determining which side is + and which is - for a hitpoint on the start/end planes
20:49.11homovulgarisbasically implementationwise how would the constraint evaluation function know the type of variables in the expression it evaluates.. I tried a bit with Variable Inheritance .. but function pointers still cause trouble due to signature difference.. I am experimenting a bit with boos::function and boost::lambda .. but it's proving to be tricky
20:49.25brlcadlooks like someone checked in a bunch of tclIndex files
20:50.38brlcadwags his finger at bob
20:53.18``Erikcasting pointers with a magic check is pretty common in BRL-CAD
20:54.35pacman87``Erik: that's how extrude determines which segment type to use
20:56.03brlcadhomovulgaris: I was actually going to talk to you about that bit .. what are your thoughts on using something a little more "less custom" for parsing the expressions
20:56.03``Erikheh, that's core to just about everything librt does, pacman... :D
20:57.24starseekerbrlcad:  heh - another regex recruit?
20:57.44homovulgarisbrlcad: u mean not using spirit ? and using flex/yacc instead ?
20:59.38homovulgarisI think spirit along with phoenix would be able to put in a lot of functional programming techniques into constraint generation.. performance wise though i think spirit is a bit of an issue..
21:01.34homovulgarisabout phoenix : http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_35_0/libs/spirit/phoenix/doc/preface.html
21:02.34homovulgarisbasically i want the precompiled constraint functors to be as generic as possible..
21:04.50homovulgarishmm.. magic check..
21:15.07pacman87bugcount--;
21:16.17brlcadpacman87: so what exactly is the bug in that section?
21:16.23brlcador is that the bugcount--?
21:16.27pacman87i fixed it
21:16.31brlcadah, bah :)
21:16.34brlcadwhat was the problem
21:16.38brlcadand the fix :)
21:16.46pacman87i wanted the untransformed hit, and was using the transformed hit point
21:17.03pacman87i was taking the dot product of the start vector and the point
21:18.06pacman87so i switched to use the translated point and the original ray's direction
21:18.12brlcadthis is part of turning that chunk into a union instead of subtraction/xor based?
21:18.16pacman87no
21:18.22brlcadah, just some other issue?
21:18.24pacman87yeah
21:18.29pacman87the last one i found last night
21:18.33brlcadwhat was the issue?
21:18.41brlcadi.e. the end result
21:19.01brlcadwrong hit points I presume?
21:19.08pacman87it was confusing +/- for the x coordinates to pass to rt_sketch_conatains()
21:19.15homovulgaris:| i will have to burn a lot of midnight oil for clearing my solver segfault :(
21:20.13pacman87but i didnt' see it before since my testing had all been aligned with the coordinate axes
21:20.32brlcadhomovulgaris: i'll have to read up on phoenix later tonight, but it does sound like there's a need for some direction discussions here rsn :)
21:20.33pacman87so the transformed was the same as the untransformed
21:21.08homovulgarisbrlcad: amen :)
21:22.12CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r31937 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c: fix bug that caused flipping the start/end plane's x-axis for certain revolve start vectors
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21:41.47pooliobrlcad: thanks
21:58.36brlcadpacman87: makes complete sense, thanks :)
22:32.10CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31938 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (8 files): Include cleanup
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23:15.47brlcadwonders if he got stuck
23:38.49pacman87who got stuck?
23:39.30brlcadstarseeker
23:39.33brlcadbut he didn't
23:39.50starseekerI'm back :-)
23:40.14starseekermay get stuck in another sense, as he attempts to tame regex to his will...
23:40.30brlcadstarseeker: contains offsets to the start and end, not copies
23:40.39starseekerright
23:40.41brlcadso you just allow as many entries as you'll have matches
23:41.06starseekerhow do I tell which substring was matched by which pattern?
23:41.13brlcadwhich yeah, could be strlen and/or something big
23:41.33brlcadthey're ordered
23:42.07starseekerk
23:42.16starseekerstarts working on a test case
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080725

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080725

00:04.25poolioreturns from his bike ride :)
00:06.38starseekerbrlcad:  How do I print a substring to a vls, knowing the starting and ending offsets?
00:08.47starseekernevermind, got it
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00:34.53starseekerum. pastebin is saying forbidden
00:36.14brlcadit's a one-liner .. here :)
00:36.27CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31939 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/ (9 files in 8 dirs): revert the inadvertent index mods. someone(tm) should make it so this doesn't keep happening.
00:36.45starseekerret=regcomp(&compiled_regex, "([co]*)([re]*)", 0);
00:36.46brlcadotherwise works for me here
00:37.08brlcadk, that seems alright I think
00:37.33starseekerThen I must be doing the array wrong
00:37.48starseekerregmatch_t result_locations[10];
00:37.58starseeker<PROTECTED>
00:38.28starseekerWhen I look in gdb, I have nonsense for positions
00:38.29brlcadah, I think it's your 0
00:38.42starseekerchecks docs...
00:39.57brlcadregcomp()
00:40.11starseekerIt's just cflags
00:40.46brlcadtry REG_EXTENDED | REG_ICASE
00:42.14brlcadREG_EXTENDED is what you want regardless as those are POSIX expressions
00:42.19starseekerOK, that runs at least...
00:43.00starseekerAh, cool
00:43.10starseekerbrlcad:  thanks
00:43.56brlcadicase is case-insensitive, if it wasn't obvious
00:44.10starseeker:-)
00:46.00brlcadnot to imply that you need or want it, maybe - maybe not
00:47.54starseekerhard to tell, just yet
00:48.18starseekerI don't see a way to tell how many substrings were actually matched, short of checking the array
01:14.04yukonbobhello, cadheads
01:17.23pacman87hi yukonbob
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02:10.01CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31940 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/namegen.c: Preliminary test work to use regex matching for breaking up names. Two patterns defined which break up two test names successfully - much more work and testing to do but the essentials are here.
03:43.34CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03poolio * r31941 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ell/ell_brep.cpp: Working ellipsoid to brep conversion.
03:45.21CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03poolio * r31942 10/brlcad/trunk/include/brep.h: redefine X,Y,Z,W,H after including the opennurbs headers. removed author
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04:42.21brlcadstarseeker: "note fix to tire tool in NEWS file." .. not very informative :)
04:43.23brlcadshould say what fix to what problem ideally since it's the commit message that is useful down the road
04:43.39brlcadto the news file is a given.. :)
04:47.55brlcadpoolio: woo hoo!
04:48.02brlcadjust read the diff
04:52.17CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31943 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/namegen.c: strcat has less overhead than printf if you're not actually going to use a print specifier
04:57.21CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31944 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/namegen.c: ws, add missing footer, M-q paragraphs, and don't put semicolons after functions (only after structs/classes).
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09:13.04mafmho ho ho
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10:07.54brlcadgreen giant
10:09.30mafmgreen giant?
10:38.07brlcadho ho ho
10:38.21brlcadold 80's commercial, never mind :)
10:39.50mafmI was pretending to be Santa
10:39.58mafmit's raining in Lisbon
10:42.30mafmI think that St. James (Galiza's patron, my home) is blinking an eye to me
10:44.25brlcadmafm: naturally, that's part of the .. joke :)
10:44.35brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_ho_ho
10:44.57brlcadhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxW1AZ_klVQ
10:45.15brlcadho ho ho, green giant!
10:46.21mafmwhile the idiots managing the network at the lab continue to disconnect me every few minutes :P
10:46.30mafmoh, the giant of the vegetables
10:46.36brlcadhehe
10:51.43mafm1 week of migration
10:52.12mafmrouter, switches, 80 new workner nodes and around 20 storage machines and misc crap
10:52.20brlcadfun
10:52.23mafmand they migrate everything at once without making tests
10:52.50mafmso they discovered bugs on the firmware and things like that after the migration
10:53.30mafmand half of the people (many of them are on holidays) have to spend the afternoon walking in the nearby parks
10:53.50mafmfor a whole week (and maybe the next one too, who knows)
10:54.13mafmthe thing of the parks is not bad, except when you have deadlines to meet :P
10:58.53mafmbrlcad: so about the evaluations, anything new?
11:47.00starseeker_brlcad:  Oops, sorry
11:47.09starseeker_brlcad:  any way to fix it?
11:47.39starseeker_should have committed the NEWS file fix at the same time, but didn't think about it being (potentially) user visible until too late
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12:29.40starseeker_makes note to self: set up cindent properly
12:39.37pooliopokes CIA-22
12:50.46andrecastelobrlcad: can i use the phong model implementation to get a new vector direction ?
12:57.19poolioI think CIA-22 is dead.
12:59.09clock_CAPTCHA 22
13:00.19poolioHeh, one of my professors last semester invented CAPTCHAs :)
13:01.57mafmfor the tests?
13:18.13pooliomafm: No, he's the guy who came up with the idea of CAPTCHAs
13:18.46mafmkidding ;)
13:19.17mafmwhere are you studying at?
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13:40.02pooliomafm: CMU
13:40.06poolioin pittsburgh, PA, USA
13:40.29mafmheh, nice :D
13:42.05pooliomafm: thanks I guess :P Where are you studying?
13:46.08mafmsome random spanish univ
13:46.44mafmone of my teachers and formers boss was making the doctorate at CMU
13:51.08mafmdid you also have classes with Randy Pausch (sp?) ?
13:54.39poolioNope, I did see "The Last Lecture" though.
13:56.58mafm:D
13:57.19PrezKennedythe next step for captchas should be identifying the object in the picture
13:57.35mafmvery emotive video, yep
13:57.53poolioPrezKennedy: I really like what he's doing with reCAPTCHA...putting all those human hours to good use
13:58.29pooliomafm: heh yeah. in person it was really crazy. Everyone in the audience was almost in tears by the end
13:58.51mafmit's the same of recaptcha? very good,  yep
13:59.06mafmalthough I read some criticism to the idea
14:00.17poolioWell, computer vision has gotten much better, so it's being broken all the time. But you can always make it a little bit harder, etc... recaptcha is basically working to digitize an immense number of books
14:00.18louipcI'm not a fan of captchas really
14:00.44louipcat least the type where they take some random string and distort it so it's hard to read
14:01.47poolioIn the case of recaptcha it's a random word, and that word is from a book they're trying to digitize where OCR has failed.
14:04.22louipcheh I can't even read it 60% of the time http://louipc.yi.org/images/image.jpeg
14:05.24louipcmaybe they should put some context and underline the words they want, and not distort them at all
14:05.26homovulgarissame with me.. most times images are pretty tough to be "even" human-readable
14:06.09pooliolouipc: true true. they're working on it :)
14:06.22homovulgarisbut i have to agree recaptcha is kind of cool human computing idea
14:06.56clock_at Loton
14:07.44pooliomafm: Holy cow. I just got an e-mail from the CMU President. Randy Pausch died today :(
14:08.16homovulgarishmm.. well he had a blast at least.
14:09.43clock_louipc: http://louipc.yi.org/images/venice_beach-small.jpg
14:09.48clock_louipc: have you been to Venice Beach?
14:09.52louipcyea
14:10.10clock_louipc: you live close?
14:10.28clock_Venice, that's Dogtown and Z-Boys!
14:10.48poolioclock_: That's 'small' heh
14:11.00clock_poolio: :)
14:11.05louipcsanta monica/venice yea
14:11.13clock_louipc: you live there?
14:11.20louipcno
14:11.50louipcI spent a week in Los Angeles area
14:11.58clock_oh
14:12.12clock_louipc: is there a lot of skaters?
14:12.25louipcnot that I saw
14:20.31mafmoh, died today? I thought that it might be already dead... his illness is quick and I saw the video about 6 months ago
14:23.33clock_what does it mean to have a blast?
14:25.23louipcIt's like having a banging good time :D
14:27.25mafmhuh, does anybody here models with MGED actually?
14:27.40clock_oh randy pausch has an extensive article on wikipedia
14:27.44clock_mafm: me
14:27.52clock_mafm: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/
14:28.27mafmdo you use shift-grips mode?
14:28.39clock_no
14:28.44mafmtrackball?
14:29.20clock_shift-mouse
14:29.23clock_is that shift-grip?
14:29.31mafmyes
14:29.41clock_oh that i use it and dont know it
14:29.50louipcshift/ctrl/etc
14:30.03mafmis the current way to perform rotation important, or it can as well be random rotation?
14:31.37louipcwell it's better than random :P
14:32.00mafmsorry, I meant free rotation, similar to blender
14:32.25louipcblender is probably better
14:32.34louipcI remember I could use the keypad too :D
14:33.05mafmI'm creating two camera modes: blender and shift-grips
14:33.17mafmI think that the blender one is superior, and much simpler anyway
14:33.45brlcadstarseeker_: you can run sh/indent.sh and sh/ws.sh to help with style -- the way to 'fix' it is to re-edit the line and commit it again with a new message
14:34.34brlcadandrecastelo: what do you mean about using the phong model -- using what's already implemented, or using that algorithmic technique?
14:35.42andrecastelobrlcad: using what's already implemented, in liboptical, right?
14:56.50brlcadandrecastelo: right
14:57.27starseekerpoolio:  Jeez, that's sad - of all the guys to get terminal cancer...
14:57.28brlcadyou could use it, but the goal isn't to understand/implement phong so much as it is to learn how to shoot your own secondary rays properly (since that's what you need to build up a path)
14:58.08brlcadmafm: familiarity makes one much more superior to the other
14:58.55brlcadfor the folks that have been using shift-grips for over a decade, mged's style is far more effective
14:59.33mafmbut it doesn't event rotate completely? or I can't seem to get to do it
15:01.50brlcadnot sure what you mean?  can get any orientation I want with just a few motions
15:02.00andrecasteloi managed to shoot the secondary rays, setting up an application and the ray direction and origin
15:02.11brlcadandrecastelo: i saw the commits
15:02.20brlcadthey didn't seem right for the purpose of shadows :)
15:02.27brlcaddoes it actually work for shadows? :)
15:03.04mafmthat with control+mouse drag you can't orbit freely, some angles are missing
15:03.44andrecastelothat's what i thought, perhaps the shadows can be achieved with the secondary callback function? (also, we're talking about some kind of gouraud shading right?)
15:05.02andrecasteloi asked about the phong model because that could be used to determine the direction of the secondary rays, instead of using (0,0,-1)
15:06.52brlcadmafm: I'm not sure what you mean, works for me -- it's basically a free rotation mode
15:07.32mafmdunno, in my case is not complete
15:07.50mafmi.e., if viewing the earth I would be missing zenithal view of poles
15:07.51brlcadyou can get angled rotations by going CC or CCW around the center too for alignment
15:08.32brlcadyou mean in mged, or the rotation mode you've implemented thusfar for "mged style"?
15:08.43mafmmged
15:09.17mafmbut anyway, what I've just implemented is a free rotation
15:09.30mafmmy original question is if it has to be exactly the same
15:09.35brlcadsounds like you're doing something wrong
15:10.01brlcadit really should be, but then that depends on what is meant by "exact" too
15:10.32brlcaddoesn't have to be numerically identical such that X drag events correspond to exactly Y rotation degrees for example, just the overall behavior should match
15:11.02brlcadandrecastelo: that 0,0,-1 is what was "wrong"
15:11.21mafmyes, I meant more like the second :)
15:11.56mafmshift grips/pans, control rotates freely, ctl+alt+shift scales...
15:12.03mafmare also the constrained modes important?
15:12.13brlcadandrecastelo: the original goal that you're aiming for was implementing secondary rays to render a shadow yes?
15:12.42starseekerprods CIA-22
15:12.54brlcadyes, the constrained are very important
15:13.15brlcadthey've been crying that they're not provided on one of our ported platforms (mac) for quite some time
15:13.36brlcadshift+ctrl freely zooms
15:13.59andrecastelobrlcad: yes, i was thinking something like shading..
15:14.14brlcadmeta/alt translates to fixed point
15:14.17andrecasteloperhaps that can be achieved later, with the path tracing and all?
15:14.28brlcadandrecastelo: shading != shadows
15:14.51andrecastelobrlcad: drop shadows?
15:14.57brlcadyou have a simplistic flat shading implemented now
15:15.25brlcadbased on surface orientation from the view plane
15:15.56brlcaddrop shadows? this aint photoshop :)
15:17.31andrecastelobrlcad: sorry, i was r cast shadows
15:17.38andrecastelos/r/thinking of
15:17.40andrecastelo:S
15:19.06brlcadyes, things that cast a shadow -- and if you think about what it means to have a shadow, it's based on visibility of a given surface point your light source(s) .. think about that for a bit and what you need secondary rays to do should become obvious
15:21.07pacman87for shadows, shouldn;t the secondary ray point towards the light source?
15:32.03brlcadpacman87: ;)
15:32.17brlcadthat would be a far better direction than 0,0,-1 ;)
15:32.36pacman87that research i did during the application period pays off
15:40.18andrecastelobrlcad: i'm trying the origin point being the first hit point and the new direction being the same direction as the first direction.. and then, on the secondary function, set ap->a_color to a dark value.. in theory it should work.. or not?
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15:43.12pacman87andrecastelo: i'd think that'd be more for semitransparent shapes
15:43.53pacman87once you have the hitpoint from the primary ray, you shoot a secondary ray from that point to your light source
15:44.23pacman87if the secondary ray doesn't intersect anything else before it gets to the source, you dont have a shadow
15:44.35pacman87if the secondary ray does hit something, you have a shadow
15:47.05andrecastelohmm, it would need a third ray then, to generate the shadows
15:47.19pacman87what's your first secondary ray doing?
15:47.59andrecasteloi think i'll set up the secondary ray as you said
15:48.48andrecastelocurrently it is shot from the first hit point, in the same direction, and when it intersects, it paints it black
15:49.37pacman87your primary ray is from your eye to the environment, right?
15:49.58pacman87once that ray hits something, why do you care what's behind it?
15:52.00andrecastelogood point, let me try something
15:56.39mafmheh, my panning for shift-grips is most funny
15:57.08mafmstarseeker: homovulgaris: did you test the camera modes lately?
15:58.24pacman87to my understanding, there's three main classes of secondary rays: shadow (directed toward light sources); reflections (reflect primary using hitpoint normal); and transmitted (passing through the object, used for transparency).
16:00.34pacman87reflected rays would be somewhat offset depending on the surface characteristics
16:00.56pacman87as would transmitted rays depending on the material characteristics
16:01.21pacman87and offset using snell's law for differing indices of refraction
16:15.35mafmbrlcad: the one of "constrained scale" that you mentioned before was only an example but all of them are important, or is it only important for scaling?
16:17.35homovulgarismafm: Link error :( Undefined reference to CameraModeMGED::CameraModeMGED() .. do i need to copy stuff to /usr/lib ?
16:19.32andrecastelowhat i tried didn't work..
16:19.35andrecastelobrb, lunch
16:19.52homovulgarisok .. works now .. my bad i think :P
16:19.58mafmhomovulgaris: maybe you should do a clean rebuild or something?
16:20.00mafmah ok
16:20.57homovulgarisoh it is more like mged now .. i liked the way it was earlier :)
16:21.34homovulgariscameramode: blender is freer :)
16:21.44mafmhomovulgaris: click on the top button about camera...
16:21.51homovulgaristhere should be a word free-er :P
16:22.18mafm(and can issue the command "p<tab> w" for prettier view)
16:22.48homovulgarisis there a no hidden-lines command ?
16:23.41mafmno hidden lines? which lines?
16:23.59homovulgarismafm: g3d working smooth on my end  working smooth
16:24.05CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03poolio * r31945 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/tor/tor_brep.cpp: working torus to brep conversion. needs more error checking, but should work for valid tori.
16:24.10homovulgarisi mean for example wireframe view
16:24.59mafmthat's what "polygonmode w" should do
16:25.17mafmcan type "help" in the console, w is short for "wireframe"
16:25.29mafmand it works on my end, what it doesn't seem to work is "point"
16:28.31mafmhomovulgaris: so can you view in wireframe or not?
16:29.15CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31947 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (4 files): More work (in progress) in panning and rotation for MGED shift-grips mode -- rotation works pretty well but panning does funny things
16:31.04brlcadalmost any new user is guaranteed to probably prefer and expect 'blender-style" since that's what a lot of 3D apps do now
16:31.33brlcadshift-grips really is primarily to support our existing users that have their fingers and mice hard-wired to shift grips
16:32.01brlcadkinda like trying to make a vi user suddenly start using emacs
16:32.19brlcaddoesn't matter how much better it is, it's painful to unlearn and relearn ;)
16:33.34homovulgarisbrlcad: true :)
16:33.54homovulgarismafm: in polygon mode the lines are hidden by faces if they are behind them right
16:34.17mafmyes
16:34.26homovulgarisi meant is there a mode which shows only the edges .. :) this polygonmode is neat too :)
16:35.46homovulgarismafm: so we can support as many cameramodes as we want ? i mean later if some rhino ppl ask for their mode ;)
16:36.56homovulgarisbrlcad: i am also sure lots of ppl will continue using mged.. :) i like vim more than gvim ;)
16:37.38brlcaddidn't recall mentioning "constrained scale", no entiendo
16:39.11brlcadhomovulgaris: yeah, there are still mged users that prefer 'ged' .. our old classic mode that doesn't have the tcl/tk gui
16:40.36brlcadwhen I first learned mged, I preferred classic mode -- some things are just more efficient than via the new interface, there's just a lot more functionality in the new interface overall that you end up wanting to convert
16:40.48brlcadthen just turning on the faceplate gui so you get the best of both worlds
16:43.28mafmhomovulgaris: many camera modes yes, in fact there are already 3
16:44.12mafmhomovulgaris: the polygon modes are direct translations of opengl inner workings, I just used those at the moment
16:46.14mafm<brlcad> they've been crying that they're not provided on one of our ported platforms (mac) for quite some time | shift+ctrl freely zooms | meta/alt translates to fixed point
16:46.44mafmI already implemented that for scale, and I see no point in non-constrained scaling -- it's hellish to control with a mouse :D
16:47.48louipcwhy not make the controls fully configurable and shift-grips, etc could be handy presets?
16:47.53mafmbut I mea if it's also important for translation/panning (I think so) and rotation (I don't find it very useful here, specially after you're not in the initial position, because you don't know where are you rotating from :D)
16:47.57brlcadwhat do you mean by non-constrained scaling?
16:48.18mafmnon-constrained to three-axes together
16:48.22brlcadto me that sounds like scaling the view in the horizontal or something (affecting perspective) .. which I don't see a need for
16:48.57brlcadview scaling == zooming in/out
16:49.01mafmI understood that in mac, shift+control scales freely, so in any direction independently (not fixing)
16:49.15brlcadoh, no
16:49.24brlcadthose were three separate statements :)
16:50.03brlcadif you mean edit deformations, that's a different story
16:50.53mafmat the moment with shift-grips, I have scaling, freely rotating (not constraining to axes, i.e. meta/alt doesn't act)
16:51.03mafmand funny panning with shift
16:51.07brlcadwhat I meant with the mac is that there's a couple bindings missing (due to the keyboard differences) that let you constrain to just one axis while translating (or while scaling when editing)
16:51.08mafm(rotating is control)
16:52.10brlcadfunny panning?
16:53.04brlcadit's pretty standard/simple panning
16:53.13mafmyes, it rotates at the same time :D
16:53.19brlcadit shouldn't
16:53.28mafmI know
16:53.54brlcadi.e. it doesn't (in mged) :)
16:55.11brlcadmafm: oh, another thing that might help you -> when comparing to mged, turn on Misc->Faceplate .. that will show you the view values as they change
16:56.57mafmbtw, for voyeurs :P -- http://brlcad.org/~mafm/g3d-screenshots/brlcad_rbgui_20080725-1.png
16:57.42andrecastelomafm: looking good!
16:57.52CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31946 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Fix problem in tire with nicks being removed from tread due to the trimming method used for the inside cut of the tread shape.
16:58.13brlcadsince some behaviors might not do what you think they do (e.g. you can implement zooming as changing the view size (i.e. moving the eye point) or by changing perspective (yuck))
16:58.19brlcad~starseeker++
16:58.54brlcadwoo hoo, that's looking much better :)
16:58.56brlcad~mafm++
16:59.07mafmmuch better than what?
16:59.28mafmit's similar to the last ones
17:00.08brlcadsimilar but not the same
17:00.20brlcadthe first screenshot that shows it's actually a 3d context ;)
17:01.12mafmoh
17:01.23mafmthat's because I think that I haven't made since I started with camera controls
17:04.13mafmbtw I think that copied pretty well Blender mode
17:04.46mafmhopefully it won't need many changes to be production re
17:04.48mafmready
17:05.16mafm(only one rotation glitch, and maybe missing keys that are for advanced users)
17:05.57brlcadsounds good
17:08.14mafmand my Orbital mode, of course, but maybe we should remove it because it's doesn't give you much more than Blender's...
17:36.57louipcis there a more generic term than 'blender' hehe
17:44.18brlcad'kitchen appliance'? :)
17:44.37homovulgarisyikes :P
17:44.45brlcad"liquidizer mode"
17:44.50louipcHA HA
17:47.17louipchttp://louipc.yi.org/images/haha.jpeg
17:47.21mafmwell, it's blender because it tries to mimic blender
17:47.33mafmrotations with keyboard step in 15 degrees, etc
17:47.51mafmevery program implementing similar ones would have different details
17:49.36mafmif you find a good name, I don't mind to use it :)
18:02.25andrecastelohey ``Erik, how do I find the light source point? I've tried a few suggestions made by brlcad and pacman87, regarding shooting 2ndary rays from the hit points to the light source, but I think I made a few wrong assumptions about rt
18:02.30andrecasteloalso I think I'm doing something wrong - the secondary rays are shot from the first hit point and if I set ap->a_color based on whether these rays hit or not, it doesn't show any difference
18:05.15pacman87andrecastelo: i think the light source is a user-defined point
18:06.39andrecastelopacman87: what about when you run rt (or rtmlt, i think they are similar in this point) with just the database file and the objects as arguments, what is assumed to be the light source?
18:07.23brlcadrt makes specific default lights for you if none are specified
18:07.55mafmI hate panning, let's ban this from the program
18:08.04mafmpanning is for pussies! :P
18:08.07brlcadheh
18:09.27pacman87for your color setting, are you doing grayscale, or black/white, or full color?
18:09.42mafmtheres a slight rotation in any step, and I don't know why -- maybe it's natural when changing the perspective?
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18:12.09mafmsay, if you're looking a cube directly ahead you don't see the sides, but if you pan 5m and look in straight ahead, you should now see one side, right?
18:12.23mafmI think that MGED doesn't work like that
18:14.37andrecastelopacman87: currently just grayscale
18:21.13mafmso I go home
18:21.17mafmsee you guys
18:21.52homovulgarisciao mafm
18:22.05mafm(and girls? :PPPPP)
18:22.10mafmbye :)
18:24.03pacman87if ( !shadow ) brightness = (light source direction) DOT ( reflected primary ray direction from surface normal)
18:24.21pacman87andrecastelo: somethign like that ^^
18:24.24pacman87?
18:25.50brlcadeh, no you shouldn't be able to see one side .. yeesh
18:26.01brlcadat least not with an orthogonal view, that's probably what's screwing him up
18:26.57andrecastelopacman87: hm, i see what you mean, something like 'only shade if not in the shadow' ?
18:28.31pacman87strictly speaking, if there's only one light source, then you wouldnt be able to see the shadow side
18:28.49pacman87like you cant' see the dark side of a cresent moon
18:31.15pacman87i don't know the specifics of mlt or how it differs from standard raytracing
18:32.05pacman87you might add a dim light at the eye source by default, so you can see the whole shape
18:32.41andrecastelopacman87: i'd be happy if half the truck were in the shadow, :D
18:32.56andrecasteloand currently it's basically a raytracer
18:37.47andrecasteloi've added something like what you suggested
18:38.22andrecastelobut i think the problem lies in the secondary ray shooting, it just doesn't intersect anything
18:38.57andrecastelo(the secondary rays direction isn't good)
18:39.24pacman87you need to specify the light source point
18:39.57pacman87vector subtraction between hitpoint and light source, and unitize for your new direction
18:40.28pacman87check if the closest hit on secondary ray is in front or behind the light source
18:55.07``Erikiirc, there are two ways to specify lights in BRL-CAD; either a point light (like automatically generated by rt of no lights exist), or by applying a light shader (which photon mapping requires)
18:55.25``Erikthe point light is dimensionless, so you'll never intersect it with a shot
18:55.28``Erikiirc
18:56.11pacman87``Erik: right, for the shadow secondary ray, you care about whether the first intersection is closer than the light source
18:56.55andrecasteloso, in view2init, the default lightmaker creates one coming from (1, 0, 1)
18:57.13``Erikfor point lights, pacman, yes
18:58.58andrecastelowhen i set the direction of the secondary rays to that direction, everything is shadowed (i set a constant color for the cast shadow)
18:59.17``Erikyou fire a ray from your intersect point towards the light source, then compare the first hit against the distance to the light source?
19:01.58andrecastelonope. I've tried something simple like what pacman87 suggested
19:02.22andrecasteloif (!shadow) shade; else paint it black
19:02.29pacman87if your shadow ray is into the shape (shadow ray)DOT(normal) < 0, then it's shadowed
19:02.36andrecastelohm
19:03.04andrecastelolet me try that
19:03.05pacman87andrecastelo: so currently, everything is in shadow?
19:03.06``Erikthat's shading, not a cast shadow
19:03.32pacman87``Erik: it's in its own shadow
19:03.41pacman87but yeah, i see your point
19:03.56``Erikif your initial fire point is ON the surface, it probably won't hit itself trying to go to the light
19:04.02``Erikor it'll always hit itself
19:04.42``Erikso usually it's punted by shading on the surface and firing shadow rays to see if something else is casting a shadow on it
19:05.27pacman87makes sense
19:05.51andrecastelobut when i shoot it, from the surface, to other directions, it doesn't intersect
19:07.59pacman87have you tried simple tests
19:08.28pacman87ie, two different sized spheres, with the light source on the line connecting the centers
19:08.30pacman87?
19:09.18``Erikor an arb8 with a cylinder sticking out of it and a light source off to one side?
19:09.22``Erik(post in the earth style?)
19:10.54andrecastelono, haven't tried those.. I pretty much got some .g files and test on them :S
19:20.13andrecasteloi told it to output the distance from the second ray starting point and the first intersection, and it flooded me with the same number :S
19:20.44pacman87should that be zero?
19:21.01pacman87er, first intersection of secondary ray.  right.
19:21.07pacman87ignore me
19:21.58andrecastelogot something around 1954 o.O
19:22.17pacman87you built a time machine?
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19:23.33*** part/#brlcad prasad1 (n=psilva@h-72-245-122-226.mclnva23.covad.net)
19:30.17andrecasteloheheh
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19:53.52CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31952 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/namegen.c:
19:53.52CIA-23BRL-CAD: test more names, add regex logic for build_region style endings. need to think
19:53.52CIA-23BRL-CAD: abou thow to handle potential incrementors - apparently regex can't tell me how
19:53.52CIA-23BRL-CAD: many numbers are tucked in the string. I can check and generate a regex string
19:53.52CIA-23BRL-CAD: based on that, always use the first number before a period as the iterator
19:53.55CIA-23BRL-CAD: (probably a bad idea), or...?
20:14.44CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31953 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/namegen.c:
20:14.44CIA-23BRL-CAD: check components that aren't numbers to see if they contain numbers - if they
20:14.44CIA-23BRL-CAD: do, flag them in the array. Will need to create a secondary regex substring
20:14.44CIA-23BRL-CAD: routine to handle up to some large number of numbers in such a string, and then
20:14.44CIA-23BRL-CAD: when identifying which number to use for an iterator branch out to subarrays if
20:14.47CIA-23BRL-CAD: a value of 2 is found.
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23:13.25brlcad~seen ralith
23:13.28ibotralith <n=ralith@216.162.199.202> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 1d 18h 22m 55s ago, saying: 'I have a full on citizen militia'.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080726

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080726

01:36.38*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-92-213.dclient.hispeed.ch)
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04:15.18CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31954 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/mat.c: revive bn_vtoh_move() after it was (apparently inadvertently) commented out in r23481 (part of the ansi conversion)
04:16.14starseeker_humph.  
04:16.32starseeker_can't test 7.12.4 on his box - Xorg is too new
04:16.41starseeker_at least, can't test mged
04:16.53starseeker_make test and make benchmark are proceeding...
04:19.10louipcxorg is too new eh?
04:21.10starseeker_upgraded to unstable gentoo
04:21.41starseeker_I stuffed the patch into trunk, but it's not in 7.12.4
04:21.44starseeker_phooie
04:23.11starseeker_well, make test and make benchmark succeeded
04:23.58starseeker_goes ahead and attempts the STABLE update, making note to hammer on his newly built copy at work on Monday
04:25.02louipchmm
04:25.57starseeker_7.12.2 has that blasted TclReFree/regex issue
04:44.47CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31955 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/mat.c: ws, style, and commentification consistency
04:46.25louipcbwahaha I hacked tor.c so it doesn't crash
04:46.50louipcit's crappy though :(
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04:56.25brlcadlouipc: any insight on the bug?
04:56.42brlcadhaven't gotten a chance to look into that one yet
04:57.36louipcseems like a divide-by-zero
04:58.20louipcI don't know how the values turn out to be zero though!
04:59.11louipcand even if they do it should get past the "    if ( half_theta <= SMALL )  {                            
04:59.40louipcerr shouldn't
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08:42.55CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31956 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/view_obj.c: simplify, anything less than SMALL_FASTF is bad
08:43.51CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31957 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/mat.c: optimize, near_zero test should be slightly faster than fabs()
08:55.44CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31958 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/view_obj.c:
08:55.44CIA-23BRL-CAD: comment on how vo_update() needs to validate the model2view matrix (or the
08:55.44CIA-23BRL-CAD: corresponding rotation and center matrices) before attempting to invert it.
08:55.44CIA-23BRL-CAD: investigating a bug report showed that this particular bn_mat_inv() was crashing
08:55.44CIA-23BRL-CAD: due to that very reason.
09:19.46CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31959 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/tor/tor.c: comment consistency cleanup
09:28.20CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31960 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/tor/tor.c: style cleanup
09:47.45CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31961 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/tor/tor.c: attempt to prevent an illegal instruction floating point exception (divide by zero in rt_num_circular_segments) reported by louipcin sf bug 1959202 (mged crashes when inserting a torus)
09:47.46brlcadlouipc: give that a try
09:57.03CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31962 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/view_obj.c: missing curlie
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14:07.20``Erikmorning, andre
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14:13.42``Erikdamn dave for having astroempires.com on his screen O.o
14:29.35brlcadoooh
14:48.22brlcadcreates an account and gets to work
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14:59.45CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31963 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: one char off bug in CONFIG_TS
15:16.32``Erikheh
15:16.49``Erikwe're in e37 if it matters :)
15:19.34brlcadB44:47:01:22
15:19.43``Erikoh, that's a seperate server
15:20.55``Erikwe're in epsilon (the alpha/beta/ceti... are the 5 seperate servers they have, each isolated)
15:48.33brlcadnods
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16:28.59brlcadtis addictive, I thought about writing something similar for the iphone
16:29.45``Erikneeds to go phone shopping :/
16:29.55``ErikI got the l2 mostly working, but the earbud doesn't
16:30.02``Erikdamn washing machines O.o
16:30.40brlcadyou need an eyefown!
16:32.29brlcadwishes the timeframes were slightly longer, so you could queue up actions for an entire day in one go
16:33.36``Erikyou can later on
16:34.09``Erik<-- just starting and has stuff with over 3 hours build time
16:34.29brlcadyeah, I saw that I could kick off goods and they take 5 hours
16:34.37``Erikstructures, even
16:35.20``Eriklike my spaceports and shipyards would take 3 hours and 4 minutes on my capital planet, and I've been gearing up to build economy quickly, not field a fleet or set up defenses
16:35.44brlcadseems that tutorial is primarily aimed at gaming the 7 day "newbie" timeframe so you don't have to pay
16:36.04``Erik(you get 7 days safety, then the vultures descend O.o)
16:36.48brlcadyeah, but still with the seemingly primary intent of having as many planets as possible
16:36.59brlcadsince you have to pay the upgrade fee to expand after that
16:37.17``ErikI'll probably pay for an account, but getting enough economy going to put up a decent defence and fleet is a good side effect of that thing
16:37.25``Erikyeah *shrug*
16:37.32``Erikdefense
16:37.35``Erikeven, I ain't no brit
16:37.50brlcadwhat day are you on?
16:38.00``Erikuhm, like 3.5
16:38.04``ErikI started in the afternoon
16:38.31``ErikI lose my carte blanche invulnerability on wednesday
16:39.23``Erikand I'm surrounded by a bunch of people in a guild, so I assume they'll immediately attack me when that becomes an option
16:39.59``Erikespecially since my home defense fleet (one fighter to prevent piracy right now) is called "FluffyBunnies" :D
16:41.10brlcadheh
16:44.24PrezKennedykill them all FluffyBunnies!
16:55.32CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31964 10/brlcad/trunk/include/conf/Makefile.am: only generate the files once, is all-am needed given they're all BUILT_SOURCES?
16:55.53``Erikamusingly enough, it seems like vim highlights lisp better than emacs O.o
16:56.15brlcadprobably just better defaults
17:14.52PrezKennedyvim ftw!
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19:59.15thing0test
19:59.20thing0yes
19:59.22thing0it worked
19:59.36``Erikdamn
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21:35.43CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31965 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: daniel unbroke mged get/put commands when he fixed the %S structparsing
21:42.30CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31966 10/brlcad/trunk/ (BUGS NEWS TODO): Bob fixed the solid_illum bug that was popping up in mged's gui and making primitive selection fail.
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21:48.43CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31967 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS README include/conf/MINOR include/conf/PATCH):
21:48.43CIA-23BRL-CAD: bump revision to an unstable minor 7.13.0 to reflect the massive libged changes
21:48.43CIA-23BRL-CAD: -- this will be released as 7.14.0 when the migration is complete. in the
21:48.43CIA-23BRL-CAD: meantime, the STABLE branch will have the efforts that lead to a 7.12.6 release
21:48.44CIA-23BRL-CAD: before then.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080727

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080727

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01:15.40CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31968 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/wdb_obj.c: since it's happened twice now, add a basic sanity check for an infinite loop when trying to find a new object name during dbconcat
02:05.09brlcadstarseeker_: you can implement contains_number() much more simply with a while loop and is_digit() -- it'll be considerably faster too
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03:49.31CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r31971 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: Improved memory cleanup on shutdown. limitations of rt_clean_resource() prevent complete cleanup.
03:49.33CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r31970 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/prep.c: rt_init_resource(): was failing when rtip was NULL, added some checks
03:49.50CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r31969 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/shoot.c: rt_clean_resource(): moved call of bu_ptbl_free() for re_pieces_pending earlier (it wasa not being called if pieces had not benn used).
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05:50.45CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31972 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (14 files): ws style
06:19.44starseeker_brlcad:  Good idea, thanks! :-)
06:25.44starseeker_brlcad:  I think I'm getting a sense of how to break things up now - had forgotten about build_region's little twist on things and it wasn't mentioned originally...
06:26.18starseeker_as near as I can tell the most build_region uses is #operator#, so that's not too bad
06:26.38starseeker_will check the tcl code on monday to be sure
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18:53.44CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31973 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Parker fixed mged 'dbconcat' hang when not specifying an affix. this was reported in sf bug 2015038 (dbconcat fails) by butler where mged would hang. cause was an infinite loop when searching for a new object name.
19:01.23CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31974 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c: just remove the else case since we cannot rely on ieee floating point which means not using ==, !=, inf, and nan with floating point types. other approaches prevail (case-specific).
19:07.27CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31975 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c: take a few liberties and cull out the dead code after a nice refactoring (rt_sketch_contains()) .. hopefully not anything pacman needs
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080728

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080728

01:20.45*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo__ (n=chatzill@189.71.77.39)
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02:27.11CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r31976 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/prep.c:
02:27.11CIA-23BRL-CAD: Refactored rt_clean_resource(). Now calls rt_clean_resource_basic(), then calls rt_resource_init().
02:27.11CIA-23BRL-CAD: rt_clean_resource_basic() contains most of what was in rt_clean_resource(), but without the
02:27.11CIA-23BRL-CAD: re-init. New method rt_clean_resource_complete() calls rt_clean_resource_basic(), frees the
02:27.11CIA-23BRL-CAD: directory blocks, and does not call re-init - frees ALL the resource memory.
02:29.15CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r31977 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: Now calls the new rt_clean_resource_complete() method to free all used memory
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03:23.56CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r31978 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcSolver.h solver_test.cpp): solver segfault solved.. just a missing increment :( almost a 3 character bug
03:30.27CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31979 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c:
03:30.27CIA-23BRL-CAD: Added setup of new direction according to light sources list - but just for the
03:30.27CIA-23BRL-CAD: first element. Still need to be tweaked for the default value or the position of
03:30.27CIA-23BRL-CAD: the default light is added to the list? Added some comments.
03:42.20andrecasteloBRL-CAD is approaching 2 mil lines of code ;O
04:02.17Ralithis this good or bad
06:19.32brlcadandrecastelo: run sh/enumerate.sh
06:23.36brlcadit's not 2M -- that'd only be if you also count the sources in src/other that aren't ours -- we're closer to 1M
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06:39.03brlcadlooks like it's presently 1.2M atm, which is .2M docs and 1M actual sources .. as well as .1M blank lines (not counted) and 1M external sources
06:43.32Ralithaltogether, quite a lot.
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07:34.28CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31980 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/cmakecheck.sh: add a simple helper script that compares the CMakeLists.txt build files against the Makefile.am files and lists any files that are missing. this should help keep them in sync, at least for the time being.
07:49.34CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31981 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/cmakecheck.sh: bah, the dos carriage returns are causing sed to match the first entry. rework it so this doesn't happen -- new version simplifies the sed side but at a small run-time cost.
07:50.30Ralithcan't you make svn convert everything into unix line endings on commit?
07:54.01CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31982 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/CMakeLists.txt: add htester to the cmake build so the sources being compiled are in sync
07:55.07brlcadRalith: yep, just atm those files don't have svn:eol-style set
07:56.17brlcadmost do, just not the ones I'm trying to sync (they're older)
08:00.30CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31983 10/brlcad/trunk/ (15 files in 15 dirs): add proper svn:eol-style and svn:mime-type settings to all of the CMakeLists.txt files that got added before setting proper properties became enforced. native and text/plain respectively.
08:00.38brlcadstill wanted the script to work for the devs on cygwin anyways so it was a good fix
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08:26.57CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31984 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libsysv/CMakeLists.txt: add the missing files to the build (even though they're configured off) so they are syncd with the Makefile.am
08:30.15CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r31985 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pipe/pipe.c: a goto skipped the initialization of variables, moved the initialization of the variables (which are important after the goto) up
08:35.52CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31986 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/cmakecheck.sh: account for {} vars too
08:37.33CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31987 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/CMakeLists.txt: ignore a few files and add timer42.c since it's needed for nix builds
08:41.28CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31988 10/brlcad/trunk/Makefile.am: add the new cmakecheck.sh to the distcheck to hopefully prevent making a release with the build files out of sync. use the SH var consistently too.
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09:25.46mafmhi
09:38.04brlcadhowdy mafm
09:38.08brlcaddid you see my note?
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09:40.02mafmthe email? yep
09:46.01mafmI don't know if it reached the mailing list though, I only received one copy
09:47.29CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31989 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CameraMode.cxx: Shutting up debug messages
09:58.53brlcadit made it, mailman is smart enough to notice you already received it
09:59.47mafmlol
10:00.02mafmI don't like that kind of smartness, it's like google's
10:00.27mafmand then I need to spend not-smart-but-dumb time finding posts :)
10:00.38mafmanyway, default should be orthogonal?
10:01.21brlcadyeah
10:01.35brlcadthat's how most cad packages deal with it
10:01.41brlcadgives you precision alignment
10:02.00brlcadit should be toggle-able, though -- and completely independent of the inputs
10:02.47brlcadit's a view setting
10:08.55mafmhmm, so the state shouldn't be saved in the input/camera modes, but higher levels?
10:26.13mafmmeh, it's not that simple to set up :)
10:33.00CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31990 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (6 files): Adding support for different projections: orthogonal(orthographic)/perspective
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14:24.32CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r31991 10/brlcad/trunk/Makefile.am: don't assume that SH ends in whitespace
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14:34.12mafmyou've got to love your network admins ¬_¬
14:35.39``Erik"or else"
14:40.52mafmthe bad part is that they disconnected to about ~100 people, not just me for behaving badly :)
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14:49.37starseekertakes another run at STABLE...
15:02.22mafmorthogonal/orthographic modes, by default, have any issue with zooms?
15:05.19mafmI guess that it's something specific from OGRE, but everything is working but zooming
15:05.35CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r31992 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (6 files): Moving the control of Perspective/Orthogonal projection types to the CameraManager, so it's independent of the Camera/Input Modes (MGED, Blender, etc).
15:20.36CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31993 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/proc-db/tire.c): Fix sketch in tire tool to avoid jagged stepping artifacts on inner tread wall.
16:01.26brlcadmafm: I suppose it could be at a camera level -- but it does have nothing to do with input
16:01.47brlcadsince a camera is how you're representing your view
16:05.12brlcadmafm: what angle are you using for perspective mode?
16:07.08brlcadah, I see you already moved it up (view control)
17:10.47mafmbrlcad: yes, I moved it up, but OGRE has a problem with zooming in that situation
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17:26.21starseekerbrlcad:  There we go - as close as I'm likely to get to a "proper" dimensional match for the pre-existing tires in m35: http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/m35newtires.png
17:30.27brlcadstarseeker: cool, so you know how to update the m35.asc file?
17:32.29brlcadthe only detail there is to make sure it's writing out a v4 asc instead of a v5 .. which it should do by default iirc since the original is v4 asc so it should effectively go v4asc->v4g->v4asc
17:34.07brlcadstarseeker: you know what else comes to mind in your m35 picture.. you should install your fancy headlights on that 'higher' res version too
17:34.24brlcadthat'd be a good place to put that work to good use
17:34.33starseekersure :-)
17:34.54starseekerlet me do my pre and post screenshots for the tire talk, and I'll pop the headlights in
17:37.33brlcadnote where the lights actually are, two sets -- http://www.fsmm.org/collection_images/buttons/trucks1.jpg
17:57.44mafmI have to go now, take care guys :)
18:23.37starseekerbrlcad:  doesn't look like the default is to preserve v4 - the ascii export is almost half the size of the original
18:28.51``Erikyeah, asc2g and g2asc suck like that, they're hardcoded to format and haven't really been updated since v4
18:29.08starseekerso how DO I output a v4 asc?
18:29.29``Erikum, g2asc should generate v4 style  O.o
18:30.10``Erikmisread
18:30.45starseekersure doesn't seem to
18:30.46brlcadstarseeker: run dbversion in mged -- does it report 4 or 5?
18:30.56starseeker5
18:30.58brlcadit'll preserve
18:31.05brlcadah, so asc2g upgraded it
18:31.18brlcadso you'll need to downgrade it
18:31.23starseekerok...
18:31.35``Erik*look* asc2g has notes about v4 stuff being replaced
18:31.44brlcadusing a super-special undocumented flag (because we don't want non-developers using this)
18:53.55CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31994 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.c: remove the unused MGEDCopyRight_Notice
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19:16.08``Erikstupid effin' subversion
19:16.43``Erikmade the mistake of updating his nfs shared copy of brlcad from a machine that has 1.5 installed when his usual machine has 1.4 :/
19:28.02starseekerconfound it
19:28.33starseekerthe version I'm getting on the conversion seems to be VERY different from the one in the repository
19:33.03CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31995 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/TODO: Update TODO file to 7-12-4 - testing commit ability to STABLE branch
19:33.18starseekerwell, at least something is working
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19:50.44brlcadstarseeker: that needs some debugging, something is wrong with g2asc
19:51.06brlcadit's at least writing out the wrong comgeom types, looks like record parsing is off somewhere
19:51.45brlcaddo you have a previous version you can test? (like a 7.10 or a 7.8)
19:52.31brlcadso wants to rip out all v4 support at some point
19:52.31starseekernot right now - I can try building one
19:52.54starseekercan we rip it out and still maintain the benchmark testing?
19:53.09brlcadoh sure, that's not the problem
19:53.19brlcadthe problem is the slew of v4 geometry databases out there
19:53.50starseekermm.  Can we push for a comprehensive update effort?
19:54.07brlcadwe have, several times
19:54.21starseekerhumph
19:54.25brlcadit's not like they're all sitting pretty in one place waiting to be upgraded
19:54.53starseekerthinks they should be, darn it all...
19:55.02brlcadnot just at arl too, there are other repos
19:55.32brlcadeven in-house we can't really do it until the geometry service comes on-line
19:55.44starseekertrue...
19:55.59brlcada v6 8.0 branch would be good to start at some point though
19:56.19starseeker:-)
20:03.22CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31996 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: g2asc of a v4 is apparently writing out the wrong s_cgtypes and otherwise parsing v4 .g files incorrectly. perhaps an off-by-one buffer problem crept into 7.10/7.12?
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20:35.09``Erikwhat about just collecting all v4 load ability into, say, dbupgrade (make it as ugly as g2asc/asc2g)?
20:35.55``Erik"v4 database detected, would you like to upgrade it to v5? [Y/n]" :D
20:37.14mas3773quick question: what's the command to fire up the brlcad terminal in a headless mode?
20:37.36brlcadmged -c
20:38.04brlcad``Erik: yeah, I think even if all code was ripped out we'd still have to do that
20:38.46mas3773aiy, thanks much, I was thinking it was a separate command vs a flag
20:39.09``Erikeliminate it from the librt stuff and move the loaders into src/conv/dbupgrade.c :D then a little tcl/tk hackery
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21:35.12CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r31997 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (chgview.c dodraw.c dozoom.c mged.c mged.h mged_solid.h): remove the seemingly unused/dead HeadSolid list and distinguish the FreeSolid list from the same-named libged global (bleh)
21:50.33CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31998 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/ (8 files): Begin update of STABLE to rel-7-12-4 tag from trunk.
21:52.43CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r31999 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/doc/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Update STABLE doc dir to rel-7-12-4
22:02.14CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32000 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/doc/docbook/ (20 files in 2 dirs): Finish updating docs in STABLE to rel-7-12-4
22:03.45CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32001 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/include/ (30 files in 2 dirs): Update include in STABLE to rel-7-12-4
22:25.48CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32002 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/misc/ (26 files): Update misc in STABLE to rel-7-12-4
22:26.38CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32003 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/misc/archlinux/ (. . Makefile.am PKGBUILD brlcad.install brlcad.sh): Update misc/archlinux in STABLE to rel-7-12-4
22:27.12CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32004 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/misc/debian/ (13 files): Update misc/debian in STABLE to rel-7-12-4
22:27.41CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32005 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/misc/enigma/ (12 files): Update misc/enigma in STABLE to rel-7-12-4
22:28.25CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32006 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/misc/macosx/ (19 files in 4 dirs): Update misc/macosx in STABLE to rel-7-12-4
22:28.53CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32007 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/misc/nsis/ (8 files): Update misc/nsis in STABLE to rel-7-12-4
22:29.25CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32008 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/misc/pkgconfig/ (14 files): Update misc/pkgconfig in STABLE to rel-7-12-4
22:33.37CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32009 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/misc/ (355 files in 199 dirs): Update misc/win32-msvc* in STABLE to rel-7-12-4
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22:39.38PrezKennedybrlcad, youd be so proud, i invested in a cheap linux server
22:40.11CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32010 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/regress/ (Makefile.am flawfinder.sh gqa.sh repository.sh solids.sh): Update regress in STABLE to rel-7-12-4
22:41.11CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32011 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/sh/ (linkroot.sh make_dmg.sh make_pkg.sh): Update sh in STABLE to rel-7-12-4
22:48.42starseekergrr - why's it accepting it in small chunks but not as one big gulp???
22:49.33starseekersettles in for a long, grinding night...
23:01.02CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32012 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcBasic.h pcConstraint.cpp pcConstraint.h): Cleanup: code reorganization and transfer between .cpp and .hpp making way for the Heterogeneous container as an argument
23:22.22pooliogah, I broke my glibc
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080729

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080729

00:07.02Raliththat's no fun
00:51.27CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32013 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/src/ (456 files in 67 dirs): Update src of STABLE to rel-7-12-4
00:59.12*** join/#brlcad Byron1 (n=byron@pool-96-251-1-116.lsanca.fios.verizon.net)
00:59.28CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32014 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Remove from STABLE misc files that aren't in rel-7-12-4
00:59.49Byron1Is there a tutorial on how to use the matrix selection option in mged?
01:01.26starseekerthe graphical one or the command line?
01:02.21Byron1The graphical one I have the command line
01:02.35starseeker'fraid not
01:02.47starseekerat least, that I've found so far
01:04.49Ralithtrail-and-error it, then write one :D
01:05.45starseekerdoes small happy dance - that should bring STABLE up to 7.12.4
01:07.15starseekernow to pull in whatever can be easily swiped from trunk and get ready for the actual 7.12.6 testing...
01:25.31starseekerbrlcad:  How do you want me to handle the snarfing of changes from trunk for 7.12.6?  Should I do it all outside svn and then do one big commit, or add them as I go?
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01:27.26CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32015 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/HACKING: Add r31220 from trunk - brlcad's better release tagging example.
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01:46.40brlcadByron1: if you read the OED tutorial, it is perfectly applicable to the matrix selection gui
01:47.23brlcadthe gui has you pick a right-hand-side then a left-hand-side just like oed requires
01:47.36brlcadfrom there, the edits are the same
01:50.47starseekershould add a note to the oed tutorial about how to move assemblies/groups that are referenced in multiple locations
01:50.57starseekerthat threw me early on
01:52.09CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32016 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (33 files): remove the now empty mged_solid.h header
01:53.08brlcadPrezKennedy: wow, really?  put one together yourself or bought something?
01:53.59brlcadstarseeker: if they're fully tested, can add them as you go
01:54.24brlcadin general STABLE is supposed to be a branch where it'll always checkout, build, and run and be something we've fully tested
01:54.43starseekercrud
01:54.56brlcadi.e. much higher validity overhead that it not only compiles by default everywhere but also passes all our known tests
01:55.12starseekerhad better wait then - this will take long enough without per-commit building
01:55.48brlcadyou could create a branch, commit your changes there
01:56.02starseekerThat's a thought
01:56.05brlcadthen when it's all working, merge that over to stable
01:56.30starseekerhad better do that - this will get too hard to keep track of otherwise
01:56.34brlcadthat's probably the best route given it's an adhoc set of changes that need to be integrated
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02:00.01stustevhello
02:03.27brlcadhello starseeker
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02:03.33brlcadoops, hello stustev
02:04.00PrezKennedybrlcad, renting a cheapo one
02:05.49CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32017 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/: Create working branch in which to prepare 7.12.6.
02:06.55starseekerbrlcad:  maybe we should tell CIA to ignore this branch?  the STABLE update was noisy enough
02:08.16brlcadPrezKennedy: ah
02:08.28starseekerhas no wish to spam
02:08.34brlcadnah, it's fine
02:09.04brlcadshows the live activity, tis a good thing :)
02:09.14starseeker:-)
02:09.24starseekerrather like slashdot reruns though...
02:09.37brlcadanyone that doesn't like the irc chatter can add an /ignore
02:09.43starseekerAh
02:10.06stustevI am new to BRLCAD
02:10.22starseekershould go home soon but is hitting his stride now...
02:10.32stustevI want to know if I can use variables for the arguments
02:10.43stustevI haven't found that in the documentation
02:10.44PrezKennedybrlcad, the only thing in the house that runs Linux is the router
02:11.00stustevis it an undocumented feature?
02:11.54Ralithstustev: arguments in mged commands?
02:11.58stustevbrlcad: are you the one that answered my bug report - if you are thanks a lot - I did an svn update and it compiled and runs good
02:12.18Ralithstarseeker: imo CIA activity is always fun to see, even if it's a repeat; as brlcad says, it shows active development which is very satisfying.
02:12.18stustevyes - I want to build model with parameters
02:12.57Ralithstustev: iirc, the mged command line interface is actually a modified TCL interpreter; you can write code directly into it, so yes, veriables can be used as arguments.
02:13.00CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32018 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (include/rtserver.h src/librtserver/rtserver.c): Add trunk r31226 by johnranderson for 32-bit vs 64-bit architectures
02:13.19Raliththe mged tutorial has an somewhat fairly early on of using a loop to modify the properties of 8 spheres
02:14.13stustevI will look for the 8 spheres. It will probably be just what I want. Thanks
02:14.27starseekerRalith:  Does that example still work?
02:14.52Ralithstarseeker: uh, I don't recall hitting any problems when I did it
02:14.57Ralithstarseeker: it's part of the candle tutorials
02:14.58Ralither
02:15.02Ralithstustev: it's part of the candle tutorials
02:15.35stustevoff to the candle tutorial - thanks again - bbl
02:16.01CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32019 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (8 files in 4 dirs): Add trunk revisions 31229-31231 - various fixes
02:17.43Ralithstustev: you can even pass commands to mged from other sources, meaning you can easily script modelling in just about anything
02:18.06CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32020 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/nirt/nirt.c: Add trunk revision 31239 - switch nirt's listforms to bu_vls.
02:18.26Ralithand if you really want to get fancy you can forego mged entirely and work with the libraries it's based on to build models using any language that supports C linkage
02:20.18CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32021 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: time to level up. upgrade cliff yapp's entry from code contributor to developer. has had many months of sustained effort, hundreds of commits and counting. awesomeness.
02:20.47brlcadstustev: probably, I answer a lot of reports .. but welcome(!) regardless
02:21.29starseekerbrlcad:  thank you! :-)
02:21.43brlcadstustev: there are a lot of ways to model parametrically too, depending on what your actual goal is
02:21.47starseekeris humbled and honored
02:22.03brlcadusing tcl in mged, using C, using scripting outside mged, etc
02:23.09brlcadstarseeker: you probably passed up chris today :)
02:25.02starseekerbrlcad:  Oh, while I'm thinking of it - do you want the hyp primitive in 7.12.6 or does it need more work first?
02:25.07CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32022 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: ws
02:25.17brlcadi.e., into the top-ten committers
02:25.22brlcadit needs more work
02:25.31starseekerAh :-)
02:25.37brlcadthere are todo items for it
02:25.49starseekerwell, doing a stable branch update is cheating a bit, but cool! :-)
02:26.15brlcadah, actually good point -- those don't affect your stats :)
02:26.28brlcadso maybe not yet, but pretty close
02:26.44starseeker:-)
02:27.51brlcadmm, there's one more that deserves mention too
02:28.08CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32023 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/mged/ (adc.c chgview.c): Add trunk revisions 31245-31246 - brlcad tweaks for M_SQRT@_DIV2 and using vmath.h for defines.
02:29.48CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32024 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (doc/deprecation.txt include/vmath.h): Add trunk revisions 31246-31248 - more math tweaks, depreciate M_SQRT2_DIV2.
02:30.09brlcadstarseeker: next step .. break into that list of "core devs" .. seems to be a big jump to cross the 1000 count mark :)
02:30.40starseekerHehe :-)
02:30.47starseeker"I have not yet begun to code"
02:31.04brlcadmisses mike ..
02:31.18brlcadbetween him, bob, and I .. *damn*
02:31.45brlcadhe'd probably be between 15-20k commits now
02:32.00starseekercan believe it
02:33.31stustevbrlcad: my goal is learning brlcad and modeling a replacement part for a machine of mine. I want to maintain an edge margin on a round plate for a bolt hole pattern. I would like to insert the diameter of the plate and the edge margin parametrically and then when I change the plate diameter the hole pattern diameter changes along with it.
02:33.39CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32025 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Add trunk revisions 31262-31264 - Bob's fixes for graphical nirt.
02:35.19PrezKennedyi miss mike too
02:35.52CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32026 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Add trunk revisions 31268-31270 - more nirt fixes.
02:36.09stustevI can see the substitution should work. It is all over the command line parameter. I am sure BRLCAD will do it. Does it use a # sign before the variable to tell the interpreter this is a variable?
02:37.25brlcad# are comments
02:39.03CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32027 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/ (libbu/argv.c librtserver/rtserver.c): Add trunk revisions 31272, 31274, 31275 - john's obliquities calculation fix and brlcad's header fixes
02:39.07starseekerwonders just how bad this will blow up on him when he tries to build it...
02:40.46CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32028 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: Add trunk revisions 31277 - Bob's fix for copying nirt sfiles and mods to code that copies g_xxx.c - the latter may be an issue in this branch, TOCHECK
02:42.25jonoredstustev: it's $ to tell the interpreter this is a variable. If you're doing math than stuff like [expr {(1+2)/3}] (square brackets substitute return values, expr does math) is probably also helpful. The usual math functions are there in expr, too.
02:43.45CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32029 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/adrt/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Add trunk revisions 31292-31296 - adrt tweaks.
02:44.46CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32030 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/nirt/parse_fmt.c: Add trunk revision 31297 - fix to nirt's dest command.
02:46.02CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32031 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Add trunk revision 31299 - Archer raytrace control panel fix.
02:46.55CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32032 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/nirt/parse_fmt.c: Add trunk revision 31300 - nirt whitespace fix.
02:48.14starseeker31300, that's a nice round number on which to call it a night
02:48.29starseekeronly 700 odd more to consider...
02:49.36brlcadit's also worth noting -- though I'm sure the tutorial series covers it somewhere -- is that the mged tcl interpreter has "globbing" enabled by default so things like "draw [abc]*.r" works which otherwise wouldn't -- have to "set glob_compat_mode 0" if you want a pure tcl interpreter
02:49.54brlcadstarseeker: hehe
02:50.05brlcadare you going through every committed revision?
02:50.29starseekeressentially - scanning the svn log looking for things not related to libged, the summer projects, etc
02:50.39brlcadnods
02:50.55brlcadcheck NEWS to, to see at least from a high-level what you might want to include
02:51.02brlcads/to,/too,/
02:51.16starseekerI'll undoubtedly suck in some build config changes unintentially, but that'll have to be fixed at the end once I know the final layouts
02:51.19starseekernots
02:51.21starseekerer nods
02:51.31brlcadmost bug fixes are good to have
02:51.45brlcadanything metaball related of course
02:52.12starseekerexpects to have to take a closer look at that, since metaball work may have come after the primitives directory restructuring
02:52.23starseekerdid you want to include that, btw?
02:52.36brlcadthe restructuring itself doesn't matter
02:52.50starseekerAh - might be easier to include it, if it doesn't tie in too heavily with libged
02:53.01brlcadit doesn't tie in at all
02:53.08starseekeroh, good :-)
02:53.11brlcadit should be pretty safe
02:53.20starseekerthat'll make life much easier
02:53.27brlcadsrc/libged mostly interacts with src/mged
02:53.35starseekerdidn't realize how many nirt fixes hadn't made it into a tarball release yet - ouch
02:53.39brlcadand src/libtclcad to a lesser extent
02:54.01brlcadyeah, sucks not being able to make a release, so this will be really good
02:54.12brlcadhopefully we can post it before siggraph
02:54.36starseekerwill of course avoid most of the docbook for this purpose, but will probably stuff the tire doc in there since the latest/greatest tire should be in this release
02:55.02starseekerwill try - he is gradually getting the hang of svn and getting the big 7.12.2 -> 7.12.4 jump behind him helped
02:57.26starseekerOh - can I go ahead and include that tk fix for the newest Xorg releases?  
02:57.51starseeker<selfish> can't run without that on his home machine </selfish>
03:00.18brlcadgo for it
03:01.31stustevjonored: thanks - I will look for the examples and try them. I very much appreciate the info and help!
03:05.09jonoredstustev: It's worth looking up some tutorial stuff on tcl if you can't find all of what you want in the brlcad docs - some of that came from reading up on tcl for me.
03:05.32brlcadstustev: any time, we're always here ;)
03:06.47brlcadnew devs and power users (i.e. folks that leverage scripting) get my attention pretty quick, it's what we need more of most :)
03:12.05Ralithwho was mike?
03:12.21brlcadMike Muuss
03:12.34Ralithalso, the new release will have metaballs? Neat! I wasn't aware those were even CAD-relevant.
03:12.44brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Muuss
03:13.36Ralithoh.
03:13.49brlcada truly brilliant guy to work with, exceptionally charismatic
03:15.08RalithI can imagine, with a history like that.
03:15.46brlcadthe wiki page doesn't really do him justice to say the least, but still informative
03:15.51Ralithopens up his /usr/src/sbin/ping/ping.c
03:15.53Ralith<PROTECTED>
03:15.53Ralith<PROTECTED>
03:15.57Ralithawesome.
03:16.50brlcadbrl-cad is sort of like ping a thousand times over
03:17.17Ralithin what respect?
03:18.10brlcadin that the characteristics that have made ping useful and a great tool for so many environments for so long
03:18.22Ralithah.
03:18.48brlcadping was the result of a late afternoon of focused intent, brl-cad the same focus over more than a decade
03:19.01RalithI'd thought that brl-cad's internals seemed amazingly well designed.
03:19.10Ralithseems I was justified :)
03:19.19brlcadyeah, they really are
03:19.30brlcadi mean every code, every api has room for improvement
03:19.38Ralithwell, of course
03:19.51brlcadbut as far as long-lived codes go, pretty darn nice
03:19.57Ralithbut it's rare to find a package that hasn't been ruined by deadlines or ill-thought-out decisions
03:20.29Ralithhell, it's rare to find any code at all that's survived more than five years outside of things like unix system internals
03:21.14Ralithsaid quality is one of the things that engages me most about brl-cad, really
03:21.21CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32033 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: yet another level up. long overdue credit to dev daniel for his sustained and varied contributions to the project.
03:21.52brlcadRalith: that reminds me..
03:22.24Ralithwithout that I'd have lost interest long ago.
03:23.50brlcadyou now have commit access so you can apply your patches yourself
03:24.00Ralithwow
03:24.02Raliththanks!
03:24.08brlcadI reviewed them and it was a mix of good and not so good  for applying the changes to the rt^3 sources
03:24.24brlcadthink of it as probationary, don't break anything ;)
03:24.26Ralithhehe
03:24.30brlcadand be sure to read HACKING if you haven't yet
03:24.37Ralithwill do.
03:24.42pacman87Ralith: congrats
03:24.54brlcadthe biggest issue with the patches is that they were all bandaids instead of fixes
03:25.10brlcadwhich is fine for src/other code -- those should always be the utter minimum to maintain portability
03:25.16Ralithto be fair, that was my goal
03:25.42Ralithmost of them are likely to be outdated by changes to the build system or upstream improvements
03:25.43brlcadnods
03:25.58brlcadand changes that will likely be lost the next time we sync with upstream
03:27.14brlcadin addition to not breaking anything, be sure to talk to mafm if you're working on that module
03:27.24Ralithof course.
03:28.54brlcadfyi, the Makefile he set up is entirely temporary .. if he or I or whomever can't get CMakeLists.txt to behave easily enough, I'll end up gutting the whole thing for GBS like the main brlcad module
03:29.46Ralithyeah, that's what I was referring to with respect to my patchs' temporary nature
03:30.26stustevwow - are all the tcl capabilities available in brlcad?
03:33.43brlcadyep
03:34.08brlcadmost of tk's too
03:55.13RalithIs it desired behavior that mged does not exit when all GUI elements have been closed, and it's providing no command line interface (as when launched with no options)?
03:57.09Ralithalso, both reference links are broken :/
03:57.14Ralith(in HACKING)
03:58.01Ralith(in rt^3)
04:02.02brlcadthat's a bug, it should shut down
04:02.45brlcadit used to shut down if the graphics menu was closed (only) but even that was undesirable since you might still want the command line and vice versa
04:03.08brlcadrt^3's HACKING is a bit out-dated -- sorry for not mentioning that
04:03.27brlcadsee the one in the brlcad module
04:03.43brlcadmost of the same principles apply, just that it doesn't address some of the c++isms
04:05.33Ralithkk
04:05.44RalithI noticed the main one seemed very different
04:07.02brlcadrt^3 was originally for a different purpose but with a lot of overlapping intent with a more recent development, so it's become the place to define a separation between the new OO api and new gui from the rest of brl-cad
04:07.34brlcada way to encourage separation of responsibilities and not pollute the api in particular
04:27.48starseekerreaches home base
04:28.20starseekerMike lent me his Mastering CMake book, so once I can find time to read it I'll take a more serious look at cmake
04:28.48starseekerREALLY likes the idea of "change config once, build everywhere"
04:29.33brlcadgetting cmake to that point without a slew of platform-specific checks is going to be tough (instead of feature-specific)
04:30.10starseekertrue, but it at least provides a unified framework for the logic
04:30.17brlcadright now, optional sub-configured cmakes is the bigger issue
04:31.56brlcadhm, even GBS provides a unified framework for the logic
04:32.29brlcadthe difference is just that it'll generate various target types instead of just Makefiles
04:33.01brlcadotherwise they're both single cross-platform solutions to the extent that make (and having a shell) is cross-platform
04:34.10starseekerwas under the impression that generating Microsoft specific build files was a considerable advantage
04:34.13brlcadmost of the work for either is the feature tests -- how do I "know" that this platform needs DM_OGL defined for example so that our opengl framebuffer compiles
04:34.41starseekerah
04:35.13brlcadgbs's solution was scripted feature, compilation, and runtime tests that you can write (in a m4+shell script language)
04:35.37brlcadhow cmake deals with that portably to various environments is much more limited, making those tests a bit harder
04:35.50brlcads/bit/LOT/
04:36.25starseekerwait - GBS?
04:36.42brlcadbegging projects to just fall back to "if I'm on windows, do this" style checks which are expensive to maintain over a long-term
04:36.45brlcad~gbs
04:36.46ibotgbs is probably the GNU Build System, aka the Autotools, aka the suite of tools frequently used on UNIX and UNIX-like platforms that utilize the GNU Autoconf, Automake, and Libtool build tools.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_build_system for more details.
04:36.49starseekerah
04:37.15starseekercould the issue be raised with the cmake devs?
04:41.47starseekerreally should sleep now...
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04:50.11brlcadstustev: it's really a fundamental implementation issue -- side effect of supporting various output formats
04:50.30brlcadcmake has support for it -- it's just not *as* flexible as gbs
04:50.37brlcadin the end, it could very well be good enough
04:50.54brlcadmost of the feature tests have a specific pattern anyways
04:51.01starseekerone of those "we only find out by putting in an absurd amount of effort" questions?
04:51.35starseekerscowls as his svn checkout and wonders if Comcast is up to their tricks again...
04:52.12RalithI know comcast does all sorts of nasty things, but messing with svn?
04:52.31starseekerif it's tunneling through ssh, they might treat it like one more ssh connection
04:52.45starseekerand they sure haven't liked my screen remote sessions through ssh in the past
04:52.51Raliththey treat my ssh connections ok, so long as I don't leave them idle for long periods
04:53.10Ralithotherwise they drop them
04:53.28starseekerthey do seem to be a bit better lately
04:53.33starseekerok, sleep
04:53.36Ralithnight
04:53.38starseekerlater all :-)
04:56.17brlcadstarseeker: pretty much
04:56.34brlcadhave to put a solid two weeks into it at least
04:57.02brlcadfortunately, rt^3 is tiny so it's not so bad but it should provoke many of the same test types
04:58.03brlcadRalith: that sucks .. I don't tend to see that unless they're perfectly idle (e.g. on a screen window with no activity, but fine on an irc session)
04:59.27Ralithbrlcad: that's what I was referring to; I've never had an active session dropped, only things that I wasn't using/had forgotten about anyway.
05:02.02Ralithit was only annoying insofar as that it tended to invalidate the master sockets that freebsd's ssh generates by default, meaning I'd have to manually delete them before opening a new session.
05:05.49brlcado.O
05:06.35brlcadi've not seen that be an issue to .bz (brlcad.org) which I'm always on via screen, use for irssi -- that's an old 5.2 box
05:12.41Ralithon completely idle connections?
05:20.47brlcadprobably not
05:21.08brlcadbut idle enough to get me disconnected if I'm on a quiet screen context
05:43.50Ralithwell, I only ever have to deal with comcast when I'm using someone else's wifi anyway.
05:44.27Ralithnormally (and currently) I'm on a neat local ISP which accidentally made my consumer-level link symmetric a year or two ago.
05:49.34brlcadnice!
05:50.34brlcaddoubts it was accidental though .. probably just cheaper (e.g. some tech in the isp office saying "oh noes, we ran out of adsl ports .. gotta use the sdsl ones now"
05:51.40Ralithhehe
05:51.46Ralithwell, I'm not about to call them up and ask what's going on.
05:53.20brlcadiinteresting .. http://www.sdbestpractices.com/
05:53.35brlcadwonder how technical it actually gets, some interesting tracks
05:53.40brlcadspensive as hell though
05:56.17brlcadwonders if anyone he knows has ever gone
05:58.31Ralithnot that great a website for a group that's all about software development.
06:14.12brlcadheh
06:19.07Ralithso what's a use case for metaballs in CAD?
06:19.41brlcadanalysis purposes
06:20.17brlcadsay you want to represent field strengths surrounding a given object
06:20.39brlcadand determine when two fields are interacting, or when you are within a given field
06:21.22brlcadmetaballs serve that purpose very well to implicitly represent envelopes that have variable power associations between points in the field
06:23.09brlcaduseful for representing proximity as well -- if you want to roughly know when you are within a meter of a given object for example -- define a metaball structure for the primary boundary points on the given object, automatic solid envelope results
06:24.42brlcadmore of a CAE capability, but closely related
06:25.59Ralithahh.
06:28.18Ralithit makes a lot more sense in that context.
06:28.58brlcadyeah, wouldn't necessarily use it to represent actual geometry
06:29.11brlcadunless you're in the business of making blobby things
06:29.41brlcadcould be used to represent certain fluids (inefficiently)
06:30.58RalithI can't imagine a CAD suite, especially a CSG one, would be the tool of choice for someone in the business of making blobby things.
06:31.23Ralithstill, it would be pretty fun to have full support for boolean operations on metaballs
06:32.01brlcadnods
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08:21.06mafmheya
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09:17.11mafmw00t
09:17.37mafmI'm getting orthographic modes working, and I think that I indirectly fixed another issue :)
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09:44.30CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32034 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraMode.cxx CameraMode.h):
09:44.30CIA-23BRL-CAD: Fixing the problems with zooming in orthographic mode with minimum hassle, using
09:44.30CIA-23BRL-CAD: some of the capabilities of OGRE (instead of previous trials modifying view
09:44.30CIA-23BRL-CAD: matrices and so on). It works as expected with all current camera/input modes.
10:06.25brlcadawesome!
10:07.30mafmstill have problems with panning though :D
10:07.48brlcadheh
10:08.37mafmthere are two problems
10:09.07mafm1) with keyboard, I want to get panning to work the same independent of zoom
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10:11.20mafm2) with mouse, I cannot get the model to follow exactly the mouse
10:23.25brlcadsounds like you have a fair bit of work ahead of you then :)
10:25.28brlcadby panning independent of zoom, do you mean so that one key event corresponds to some amount of absolute translation or translation that is relative to the view (so a object will move N pixels left regardless of zoom/size)
10:25.48mafmthe latter
10:25.53brlcadk
10:26.06mafmwell, whatever is desired
10:26.12clock_-/win 12
10:26.14brlcadthat works
10:26.30mafmbut at the moment I only get absolute translations
10:29.18brlcad~botmail for homovulgaris 29 jul - pcConstraint.h:39:20: error: pcHSet.h: No such file or directory
10:37.48mafmone thing...
10:38.12mafmin orthogonal mode, I see the same width in front of me than in the infinitum, right?
10:38.53mafmsay, if my camera is a box of 10m, I only see objects at max of that size either if they're in the foreground or in the background, right?
10:39.17mafm(or otherwise they're cropped and I only see a chunk of the whole object)
10:44.29brlcadright
10:45.52brlcadyou might have depth-clipping, but things are otherwise parallel such that a 2mx2mx2m box looks the same as a 2mx2mx200m box (presuming you're looking down the z axis)
10:46.08brlcadoh, and if it wasn't mentioned! .. jeez
10:46.16brlcadI sure hope you used right-hand rule
10:46.21brlcad+Z is up
10:46.55brlcadshould have made sure I said that earlier, much earlier
10:49.25brlcadif you want to add support for left-handed or other orientations (e.g. +y is up), go for it -- but default for all modes should be +Z is up, right hand rule, and if you're looking down the -X axis with +Z going up, +Y goes to the right .. +x is the "front", +y is the "left", +z is the "top", etc
10:49.57brlcadexample diagram is on the mged quick reference
10:50.26brlcadpretty standard for most CAD systems, but not for some graphics systems
10:50.40mafmyahooooo, I got it (for blender mode)
10:51.12brlcad~mafm++
10:51.19mafm+Z is up?
10:51.23mafm~mafm-- :P
10:54.27brlcad+Z is most definitely "up"
10:54.47brlcadwe were going to make shirts for that for last year's gsoc party :)
10:56.23mafmI have +X right, +Y up, +Z backwards
10:56.28brlcadsome games also chose differently, mostly due to directx pollution
10:56.41brlcadyeah, that's bad
10:57.07brlcadthat's view-centric coordinates instead of 3D environment-centric
10:57.56brlcadbasing it on an XY plane to match your display (usually for rendering purposes), but when you move to 3D environments, that is the ground-plane and z goes up
10:58.28brlcadthat'll definitely need to change
10:59.19mafmuh
10:59.58mafmthat'll hurt
11:00.24mafmI was just using OGRE defaults, didn't know that there were different habits for CAD systems
11:01.06brlcadyeah, the alternative is entirely counter-intuitive to CAD
11:01.34brlcadogre has a setting for which orientation iirc
11:01.50brlcadone of its perks
11:02.06mafmfor "which orientation"?
11:02.18brlcadfor setting the orientation
11:02.20brlcadright/left hand
11:02.29brlcadz up, y up iirc
11:02.57brlcadotherwise z-up/y-up should be easy to fix, it's one rotation
11:03.21*** join/#brlcad elmom (n=elmom@hoasnet-ff04dd00-187.dhcp.inet.fi)
11:03.53brlcadwhat you described is a left-handed coordinate system
11:04.13brlcadthat's wrong on two-counts ;)
11:04.37mafmreally? Z is backwards, pointing towards you
11:04.56brlcadah, okay
11:04.58mafmI think that it's only a rotation away (along X axes)
11:05.49brlcadI read +z backwards as +z going away from you
11:06.50mafmwhy is that important? for creating things programatically?
11:07.28brlcadit cascades across various issues
11:08.34mafmsaving/loading files too
11:08.45brlcadyou're constantly dealing with proper orientation and alignments, tools and commands that rely on knowing which way up is
11:09.54brlcadimport/export of data for sure, though many importers will give you an option to realign since there are still a small minority that use a different handedness or a different orientation
11:09.56mafmoh goody
11:13.28brlcadmost real-world systems (flight control, simulators, cartography) use the convention of living in the X/Y plane (what should be natural/intuitive)
11:13.44brlcadCAD systems reflect that
11:13.55brlcad(as they should)
11:15.12mafmthat's a religious thing I guess, for me it's more natural the OGRE way :D
11:15.53mafmOgre::RenderSystem::_setViewMatrix || Ogre::RenderSystem::_setWorldMatrix
11:16.11mafmone of these would do, wouldn't it?
11:16.31brlcadit's not just religion -- if I asked you to draw a top-down view of your house on a sheet of paper and asked you to draw a coordinate grid over it -- you'd most likely label them x and y
11:17.24brlcadone of those should do the trick I believe yes
11:17.52mafmhopefully that won't thrash the GUI!
11:19.02brlcadthe *only* reason the other convention came to pass was because of display system programmers that started with a 2D context, which was naturally labeled x/y, was extended to 3D where they just went "into" the display
11:19.07mafmthe X/Y it depends on the situation, if you're used to draw coordinates of a projectile (classical high school physics problems) you'd do Y up :)
11:19.28brlcadit's focusing on what is doing the looking instead of what you're looking at, the world being represented and how that correlates with the one we live in
11:19.50mafmI guess that I'm biased because of the displays too :D
11:19.52brlcadyou do X/Y when you only have two to work with no matter what view
11:22.43CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32035 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (4 files): Fixing the problems with panning when controlled by keyboard (currently for Blender Camera mode only).
11:23.56brlcadlike I said, it's mostly whether you emphasize the viewer (viewing system) or the environment being viewed .. I even learned +Y is up for graphics and thought similarly until I had to model stuff that mattered and became familiar with both
11:24.34mafmscared
11:25.11mafmok ok +Z is up, but don't make me learn it by modeling with MGED! :P
11:25.12mafm;)
11:25.53mafmhave to go to lunch, hopefully I'll get inspiration for fixing the panning with mouse for MGED mode
11:25.55mafmbbiab
11:26.06brlcadheh, cya
11:49.31CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32036 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (archer/archer.bat mged/mged.bat util/rtwizard.bat): Update version to 7.13.0
11:53.44CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32037 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcConstraint.h: unbreaking the build. accidental premature code insertion
11:55.34mafm"accidental premature code insertion"... so that's how they call it now
12:02.31CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32038 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (dir.c setup.c):
12:02.31CIA-23BRL-CAD: Added the killrefs command that kills/removes all references of the specified
12:02.31CIA-23BRL-CAD: objects by combinations. The objects themselves are not killed. Also added the
12:02.31CIA-23BRL-CAD: -a option to killtree that arranges for "all" references to also be removed.
12:08.17CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32039 10/brlcad/trunk/ (63 files in 8 dirs): Fleshing out a few libged commands that were previously stubbed in.
12:15.02CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32040 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Add revisions 31301-31305 to pre-7-12-6; misc. fixes to Tcl, nirt, config.ac
12:25.55CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32041 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (Makefile.am wdb_track.c): Temporarily adding wdb_track.
12:30.46CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32042 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (Makefile.am killrefs.c): Adding killrefs.
12:43.25mafmyay! got it
12:43.45CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32043 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/open.c: Cut-n-paste fix.
12:44.51CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32044 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/ged.h src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c): Removed ged_rt_gettrees.
12:45.39CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32045 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraManager.cxx CameraModeMGED.cxx):
12:45.39CIA-23BRL-CAD: Fixing the problems with panning when controlled by mouse (currently for
12:45.39CIA-23BRL-CAD: MGED/Shift-grips Camera mode only). In the end it was very simple, but only
12:45.39CIA-23BRL-CAD: once we got the relative dimensions of the camera and we're working in
12:45.39CIA-23BRL-CAD: orthogonal projection mode.
12:51.51CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32046 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (362 files in 41 dirs): Start merging the primitives reorg into pre-7-12-6
12:52.44mafmbrlcad: the constrained modes work according to the initial coordinates, not with the screen coordinates... are there any document explaining this?
12:55.04mafmany other person knowing the information is welcome to reply, of course
13:00.53mafmwhen using unconstrained mode, it works in "screen mode", you move the object according to the camera plane
13:01.15mafmor rather, move the camera up/down/left/right
13:01.55*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@58.171.212.200)
13:02.40mafmbut when using constrained mode, this works constraining to "X" axis in world coordinates or something like that, so you hardly can control where to move the view to
13:03.24mafmat least I'd expect that constrained modes would constrain it to only up/down or left/right in "camera space"
13:06.30CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32047 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/librt/primitives/ (68 files in 33 dirs): more primitive directory restructuring
13:14.47CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32048 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (59 files in 49 dirs): Merge trunk r 31311-31319 - tweaks, adrt updates
13:30.06CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r32049 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/dup.c: make prototype match declaration for ged_dir_check (missing static)
13:30.53CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32050 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (4 files): Saving the state of camera rotations before dragging, so they continue to rotate from the current position instead of starting from scratch (for both Blender and MGED modes).
13:30.54mafmwhat happens today with brl-cad, developers on asteroids? :)
13:31.12mafmamazing, being that it's the peak of the summer :)
14:03.01PrezKennedyprogrammers are allergic to the sun ;)
14:03.31d_rossbergbrlcad: did you get my e-mail from friday?
14:56.41CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32051 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (4 files): Cleanup of #includes
14:57.52CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32052 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/GuiWindowManager.h: Renaming to remove inconsistencies
14:59.16CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32053 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraManager.cxx CameraManager.h GuiWindowManager.cxx): Adding event for when we update the camera every frame
15:05.09CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32054 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Temporarily adding wdb_importFg4Section.
15:06.14CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32055 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ged_private.h: Declare ged_open_dbip().
15:20.59CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32056 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ged.c: The declaration of ged_open_dbip has moved to ged_private.h
15:21.45CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r32057 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/Makefile.am: sort source files
15:25.37CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32058 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/importFg4Section.c libtclcad/ged_obj.c): Added the importFg4Section command to libged.
15:31.29poolioooo, when's the new release supposed to be out?
15:41.30CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r32059 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: do not call rt_resource_clean_complete() for rt_uniresource
15:42.30CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r32060 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librtserver/rtserverTest.c: Mods to work with changes in rtserver
16:11.56CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r32061 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/prep.c: rt_clean_resource_basic() now sets the conditions that are checked by rt_init_resource(), allowing resource structures to be cleaned and initialized again.
16:14.51CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r32062 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: Now that the init-clean-init cycle is possible, restore the call to rt_clean_resource_complete() for rt_uniresource. Librtserver is once again free of memory leaks.
16:24.51starseekerpoolio:  It'll be a bit yet - I'm still collecting updates while trying to avoid accidently pulling libged changes
16:27.20starseekerthen there's all the testing, plus this being my first time putting a release together :-)
16:35.57CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32063 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Add r31321-31326 from trunk - TODO updates and nirt features.
16:37.08pooliostarseeker: good luck :)
16:38.30CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32064 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (COPYING configure.ac): Add r31329-31331 from trunk - typo fixes, don't mix sysystem tcl with non-system itcl.
16:42.07CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32065 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Add r31333 from trunk - add asc2g and g2asc to cmake lists.
16:43.38CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32066 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/include/bu.h: Add r31337-31338 from trunk - new bu_list example.
16:48.55CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32067 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (BUGS NEWS src/proc-db/tire.c): Add r31348,31349,31354,31358 - tire fixes.
16:51.10CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32068 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/adrt/libtie/tie_kdtree.c: Add r31366-74 - adrt tweaks.
16:55.46CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32069 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/rt/viewarea.c: Add r31406 - viewarea fix.
17:16.26CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32070 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/GuiBaseWindow.cxx: Cleanup of #includes
17:20.50CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32071 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/doc/docbook/oed/oed.xml: Add r31430 - Add oed tweaks suggested by Paul Tanenbaum, add acknowledgements.
17:34.18CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32072 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/doc/docbook/oed/oed.xml: Fix to lollipop model suggested by Paul Tanenbaum (r31458)
17:36.34CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32073 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Upload r31456 and 31457 - rtserver simplification and loop -c feature
17:37.45CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32074 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/HACKING: Update how to make ChangeLog
17:42.03CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32075 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (TODO include/bu.h src/libbu/argv.c src/mged/rtif.c): Upload r31480,81, and 87 - libbu updates and TODO update
17:42.51brlcadaaah, the mged quick ref is finally getting out of date .. hrmph
17:43.03brlcadbeams at all the activity
17:45.02CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32076 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (NEWS doc/Makefile.am doc/mged.sh doc/mged.tr): News updates, rename mged.tr to mged.sh
17:48.12CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32077 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (9 files in 3 dirs): Naming convention build target updates.
17:51.30CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32078 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (TODO misc/nsis/brlcad.nsi): Upload r31523 NSIS updates for version aware Windows installation
17:53.55CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32079 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/misc/archlinux/PKGBUILD: archlinux PKGBUILD update - don't strip debugging, keep docs
17:54.45CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32080 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
17:54.45CIA-23BRL-CAD: per modeler request, bob added a new killrefs command that removes all
17:54.45CIA-23BRL-CAD: references to a given object (without killing the object itself) as well as a
17:54.45CIA-23BRL-CAD: new -a option to killtree so it removes all references in addition to killing
17:54.45CIA-23BRL-CAD: the object and it's hierarchy. these be very very dangerous commands.
18:01.14starseekernext step, kill tree except for objects referenced in another tree ;-)
18:04.31CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32081 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (6 files in 5 dirs): Commit r31542, 31544-51549 - new mged regression test, tire cleanup by Sean, column width change in helplib.tcl, other tweaks
18:06.28*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
18:16.14CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32082 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (35 files in 7 dirs): Uploaded r31575 - 31585 - cleanup by Sean
18:17.44CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32083 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/sh/ (news2tracker.sh tracker.sh): Update news2tracker.sh and tracker.sh, r31611-12
18:18.02CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32084 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/asc2g/asc2g.vcproj: Update version to 7.13.0
18:28.55CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32085 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Uploaded r31669 - 31675 - cleanup by Sean, fast4-g checks, note pipe primitive issue
18:34.35CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32086 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Upload trunk r31695:31699 Updates and fixes to sketch and extrude
18:36.13CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32087 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch.c): Upload trunk r31701 - more sketch updates
18:38.44mafmI go now, take care folks
18:39.35CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32088 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/conv/g2asc.c: Upload trunk r31703 - g2asc tweak
18:41.52CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32089 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (include/bu.h src/conv/CMakeLists.txt): r31721 comment, BU_BITV_ZEROALL requires #include <string.h>
18:44.31CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32090 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch.c: r31729 - sketch sanity checks
18:46.01CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32091 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/proc-db/tire.c: r31736 - remove tire debugging printout
18:51.38CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32092 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (BUGS src/librt/primitives/pipe/pipe.c): r31743-44 - fix pipe performance issue by eliminating BU_GETSTRUCT for hits, note about failure of toy jeep to triangulate
18:55.28CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32093 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/libged/wdb_obj.c: r31772,31775 - fix for infinite loop when dbconcat was called with NO_AFFIX
19:35.56*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo___ (n=chatzill@189.71.12.203)
20:02.15*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
20:07.39pooliobrlcad: Do you know if there is a way, given a 3d curve, to get the 2d trimming curve when projecting that 3d curve onto the surface? I'm thinking of just manually evaluating the control points, but was wondering if you knew of any opennurbs functionality like that?
20:16.20brlcadpoolio: src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp
20:16.35brlcadpullback_curve() in particular
20:17.16brlcadvery much green code
20:17.21brlcadbut does exactly that
20:17.45pooliobrlcad: ah, thanks
20:17.59Ralith>.<
20:18.08Ralithso my g++ has decided not to support exceptions for some reason.
20:18.28brlcadRalith: odd
20:18.53brlcadgcc needs -fexceptions, but it should be enabled by default for g++
20:19.10Ralithpassing -fexceptions manually changes nothing
20:19.25brlcadthen sounds like you might have some other problem..
20:20.27Ralithserious one, too
20:20.43RalithI can't properly test any of my changes until ogre works, and ogre depends on exceptions being catchable
20:20.45pooliobrlcad: hmm, so that routine looks very imprecise. If I find the (u,v) for each of the 3d control points, will that work?
20:21.05brlcadpoolio: imprecise how?
20:21.23brlcadmake it more precise ;)
20:21.33pooliowell, it's sampling and interpolating between points
20:21.44poolioBy definition, isn't that inaccurate?
20:22.22brlcadof course it is, but what alternative approach did you have in mind?
20:22.50brlcadfor two joined surfaces, there's definitely something better that can be done
20:22.59brlcadbut for a single curve, single surface..
20:23.13poolioWell, I have all the control points for the 3d curve, I just want to have a 2d curve that traces that 3d curve on a planar surface (note that the 3d curve is on the 3d plane)
20:25.39brlcadand.. how do you go about tracing that curve
20:26.16poolioSo my real question is whether a curve defined by the same knots, but control points in a different dimension will match the 3d curve when the 2d control points are the (u,v) on the surface that corresponde to the (x,y,z) of the control points of the 3d curve
20:26.33*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-83-99.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:30.00brlcadhm
20:32.32brlcadif the surfaces have the same order and are planar, probably (at least that's the intuitive assumption)
20:33.02brlcadnot sure about curved surfaces though
20:33.18brlcadactually don't think so for curved
20:33.34pooliowait, surfaces plural? I'm just doing one 3d curve on one surface
20:33.52brlcadjust one surface
20:34.12poolioyeah, for planar I thought it would work. Maybe I'll just try it and see :)
20:34.24Ralithahah! fixed my gcc.
20:34.36brlcadRalith: congrat
20:36.13Ralithaaand g3d loads! :D
20:36.20brlcadwoot
20:40.36CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32094 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (BUGS TODO): r31791 - note primitive selection bug in mged
20:41.30brlcadstarseeker: be sure to revert the cpa changes to src/rt/rtarea.c for release
20:41.31Ralithaaand latest svn doesn't build :/
20:42.22starseekerbrlcad:  So we no longer want those to go in before the next release per the TODO?
20:42.28Ralithfixd.
20:43.25brlcadstarseeker: yeah, the center of presented area changes (from andre) modify the output format and hasn't been fully tested yet
20:43.44starseekerAh, ok
20:43.46brlcadit needs to be a separate section in the file and coordianted with the s2 folks
20:43.47starseekersorry
20:43.51brlcadsince they rely on it
20:43.54brlcadyou didn't know
20:44.37starseeker has probably bitten off way more than he can chew, but oh well - after all the chatter in IRC I have to make it work now :-)
20:44.39brlcadso since that's not done yet, just easier to revert it for now until it can be fixed
20:45.00brlcadRalith: I see no commits to fix anything.. :)
20:45.25Ralithbrlcad: that's because I'm polishing and killing unnecessary stuff still.
20:45.52Ralithe.g. OIS seems to work fine without the mouse tweaks
20:46.00brlcadah, k
20:47.01starseekerme blinks - trunk doesn't have rtarea.c
20:47.07starseekerat least not in src/rt
20:47.22starseekerconfound it, I missed that somehow
20:48.20brlcadno you didn't
20:48.27brlcadi said the wrong file
20:48.34brlcadall the rt's are view*.c
20:48.38starseekerah
20:48.39brlcadviewarea.c
20:49.03brlcadthey use the same front-end and back-end, just using different view files for behavior
20:49.41pooliobrlcad: well it looks like there is no way in opennurbs to go from (x,y,z) -> (u,v) for a given surface :\
20:51.29brlcadpoolio: nope
20:51.35brlcadthey don't have any evaluation routines
20:51.47brlcadseriously, that's what pullback does
20:52.04brlcadyou could modify the algorithm to detect pullback onto a planar surface
20:52.33brlcadbut that's the action of (x,y,z) -> (u,v) .. you pull back a 3D point into 2D uv space
20:52.34CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32095 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (10 files in 2 dirs): revert r31046 from trunk, per advice from Sean - needs more testing
20:53.16brlcadthere are other evaluation routines in opennurbs_ext.cpp .. built up from functionality (intentionally) missing from openNURBS
20:53.57brlcadthey removed all evaluation routines specifically because they don't want the library to be used exactly the way we're using it -- at least they're not going to help
20:54.26brlcadthey sell a product (Rhino SDK) that implements all the needed algorithms (via some of the best approaches)
20:54.33poolioHmm, alright. It just seems like it shouldn't be this difficult...I have a 3d edge and I just want a face with the area it encloses
20:58.49starseekerpoolio:  <grin> There's the moon right there doggone it - I just want to go stand on it ;-)
20:59.19pooliostarseeker: ... silly rabbit
21:00.13pooliobrlcad: Do you know how the old nurbs code did it? The way they define the surfaces for the top and bottom of the tgc is by defining the rectangular surface and then defining a 3d curve. That's it
21:00.22CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r32096 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/Makefile: Improvements to portability and removal of explicit build from install targets
21:00.32Ralith:]
21:00.50pooliooh hey, Ralith's first commit?
21:00.54Ralithyep
21:00.57poolio~Ralith++
21:01.02Ralith:D
21:02.47brlcadstarseeker: oh, and I need to revert an mged command too -- remind me when it's starts stabilizing
21:02.56brlcad~ralith++
21:03.24starseekerbrlcad:  Will do
21:03.39brlcadpoolio: ah, and you need the 2D uv to define that surface
21:03.52starseekeris taking the naive approach of grabbing everything that looks like it might be appropriate, and then figuring out what broke
21:04.02brlcadpoolio: that means there is a nurb_* pullback routine somewhere too
21:04.23poolioah k. I'll mess around with pullback then
21:04.29brlcadthough that's odd -- paul stay didn't finish trims
21:04.40brlcadodd that he'd use a trimmed surface
21:05.22brlcadpoolio: and there should be a third implementation of pullback in boole too ;)
21:06.20CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32097 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/librt/primitives/dsp/dsp.c: Commit r31810 and r31811 (31810 got sucked into the previous commit) - regression test typo fix and ignore dsps with no data more gracefully.
21:08.35CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32098 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/librt/primitives/dsp/dsp.c: r31813 - clean up dsp warning messages
21:10.32pacman87woohoo
21:10.45pacman87finally got the union working
21:10.55pacman87still needs more thorough testing
21:11.08Ralithhm. Anyone know the freenode channel for autotools?
21:14.54CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32099 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (5 files in 4 dirs): r31816, r31819-22 - cleanup, RFC822 format support
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21:16.21CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32100 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/other/tk/generic/tk.h: r31823 - fix to Tk for newer Xorg installations.
21:18.11CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32101 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (Makefile.am include/conf/Makefile.am): r31831 - reset compilation time every time make is invoked
21:19.48CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32102 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/librt/primitives/dsp/dsp.c: r31834 - fix bug in dsp caught by solids regression test
21:19.50brlcadRalith: #gnu iirc
21:20.00brlcaddid you have a specific question, though?
21:20.05brlcadpretty strong expertise in here
21:21.27Ralithoh, I suppose there would be
21:22.02CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32103 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/libbu/parse.c: r31835 - use strcad instead of strcpy
21:22.42RalithI could make my OIS fix a lot more elegant if I knew how to set a boolean, and include/exclude certain files from the build as well as define/leave undefined a preprocessor macro
21:22.54Ralithaccording to the state of that boolean
21:24.48CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32104 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/libbu/parse.c: r31837 - reactivate %S format in bu_structparse_argv
21:24.50Raliththat way I could define something along the lines of USE_JOYSTICK to false on all non-windows/linux platforms, exclude certain files from the build entirely (removing the messy entire file #ifdef hack my patch used) and use a feature-specific rather than platform-specific #define in config.h for the files that need to be only partially modified
21:26.16RalithI could hack up something to provide the preprocessor macro via cflags from a ./configure check for the linux joystick headers, but that's still pretty inelegant
21:26.27Ralithand would probably break windows joysticks
21:29.51RalithI think all I need to do is make conditional the contents of libOIS_la_SOURCES from src/Makefile.am and the value of a new config.h #define
21:30.37Ralithpreferably through the same mechanism, such that no situation could produce a case in which the files were added but the macro was defined false
21:30.42Ralithor vis versa
21:30.42CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32105 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (8 files in 5 dirs): push USE_PROTOTYPES up into common.h, push USE_FBSERV into dm.h
21:31.52brlcadcatchs up and reads
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21:42.29brlcadRalith: is it OIS that's using GBS?
21:42.55brlcadthe src/other/Makefile is temporary until someone(tm) can hook up proper build system integration
21:43.10brlcadthat gets at the cmake comments I made yesterday
21:52.03Ralithit's OIS, yes
21:52.41RalithI didn't worry about elegance when fixing up the generic makefile for exactly that reason
22:02.00brlcadnods
22:02.12brlcadyeah, I wouldn't worry about the clean fix for their build system
22:02.47brlcadabsolute minimum effort to make them work (which sometimes is "replace their build system")
22:05.43brlcadin that specific case, what will be interesting is how cmake can be configured to optionally compile a sub-project that is gbs-based
22:06.44brlcadois is pretty small at least, so worse case is write a cmake build for them (presuming we stick with cmake instead of gbs ourselves)
22:13.56Ralithkk
22:14.00Ralithdirty hack it is
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22:20.06CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r32106 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/ois/src/linux/ (4 files): Dirty hacks to make OIS build on FreeBSD until upstream ports joystick support properly
22:30.15RalithAnybody familiar with cmake?
22:32.32CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r32107 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/mocha/ (6 files in 3 dirs): FreeBSD support for Mocha
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22:48.14stustevgood evening gentlemen - I have a good handle on the variables - I am able to write a script using variables and create geometry. I have a question about patterns this evening. The example in the documentation stops as if some pages are left out. I am talking about the cylindrical pattern example. The other patterns are not very clear about the implementation but the cylinder pattern seems to stop short. Can anyone point me to a completed
22:53.57*** part/#brlcad stustev (n=stustev@ip72-205-246-167.ks.ks.cox.net)
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23:42.25starseekerstustev:  I would suggest looking at clone for patterning geometry
23:42.32brlcadhe left
23:42.40starseekerah
23:42.55starseekernotes scrollback after the fact
23:43.58CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32108 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): r31882-85 misc tweaks, doc updates
23:45.28CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32109 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/ (libtclcad/Makefile.am other/blt/Makefile.am): r31904-5 - update blt dependancy information
23:47.29CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32110 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (4 files in 2 dirs): r31909-13 - merge rt_simple into rtexample, configure.ac tweak
23:49.46CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32111 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (configure.ac include/vmath.h src/librtserver/rtserver.c): r31932-34 add V2ADD3 to vmath.h, typo fix, rtserver cleanup
23:55.13CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32112 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (NEWS src/proc-db/tire.c): r31935,36,46,93 - fix accidental tread clipping and jagged edge.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080730

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080730

00:05.22CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32113 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (7 files in 5 dirs): r31957-66 misc updates by brlcad
00:18.49CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32114 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): r31968-77 selective merging of updates to librt and librtserver
00:20.36CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32115 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/sh/cmakecheck.sh: Add cmakecheck.sh (r31980-81)
00:24.09CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32116 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (11 files in 11 dirs): r31983 - add svn properties for CMake lists
00:26.25CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32117 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): r31985-91 various updates - pipe primitive and make logic
00:28.22CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32118 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/librtserver/ (rtserver.c rtserverTest.c): r32059-60 rtserver updates
00:29.33CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32119 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/ (librt/prep.c librtserver/rtserver.c): r32061-62 more rtserver updates
00:30.56brlcad19:42 < starseeker> stustev:  I would suggest looking at clone for patterning geometry
00:31.36brlcadit's invariably more easily scriptable for procedure development than the gui pattern tool
00:32.49starseekerreaches the end of the svn trunk log (give or take the new kill stuff) and stops to see how bad the damages are
00:32.50brlcadalmost has mged working so it'll invoke as an icon/shortcut for linux/mac without thinking it's in non-interactive mode
00:33.03starseekercool!
00:33.11starseekermay have spoken too soon...
00:36.37stustevbrlcad: thanks - I will look at it
00:39.00stustevI would still like to learn the pattern commands though.
00:39.52starseekeris more likely at this point to write a new pattern tool and document that - the interface on the old one is non-intuitive even by MGED standards
00:45.00stustevthat sounds like a marvelous idea
00:46.51starseekerit's a lot of work though, and brlcad has me doing more useful stuff at the moment...
00:51.12CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32120 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/configure.ac: First tweaks to configure to let it know about the docbook libpc dirs - start looking at what havoc all the merges did.
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01:16.36CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32121 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/include/bu.h:
01:16.37CIA-23BRL-CAD: Grab the renaming of bu_structparse_get_terse_form, etc. in bu.h from r31595 -
01:16.37CIA-23BRL-CAD: have this in libbu via one of the updates. If it doesn't harm anything else
01:16.37CIA-23BRL-CAD: it's a logical renaming based on the use of Tcl_Interp in the functions,
01:16.37CIA-23BRL-CAD: otherwise need to revert both this and the corresponding libbu changes.
01:35.15CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32122 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (6 files in 5 dirs): Merge in changes r31595 and 31609 - libbu compiles now.
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02:16.02pacman87old: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_rt20.png
02:16.03pacman87new: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_rt21.png
02:27.51Ralithhow's new work?
02:28.05Ralithunion?
02:28.12pacman87yes
02:28.47Raliththat's where you have something like [===|=] where | is x=0?
02:28.54Ralithand rotate it >180 degrees?
02:29.03pacman87yes
02:29.09pacman87270 there
02:29.11Ralithcool
02:37.11starseekerooooohhh crap
02:41.32Ralith?
02:46.40starseekerhas more of the libged stuff mixed in than he intended
02:50.41starseekerwell, I can do it the hard way I suppose - start from the 7.12.4 release and check each change for breakage
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03:44.48CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32123 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/current_successful_compile_rev.txt: Add file to record last revision verified to have built - will go away later, just for convenience now.
03:45.37starseekeralright, I'm outta here
03:51.34brlcad~pacman87++
03:51.57brlcadteh awesome
03:52.16brlcadalmost time for another showcase :)
03:52.51pacman87showcase?
04:10.13brlcadto share some of the results with users
04:10.26brlcad(nothing for you to do)
04:10.30pacman87ah, ok
04:10.47pacman87just fyi, revolve is still limited to straight line sketches
04:11.11pacman87i wanted to get that all ironed out before it gets too complicated
04:11.26brlcadyep, got that
04:11.39brlcadtis a great approach
04:11.54pacman87and i'm having some odd 'flipped normals detected'
04:12.14pacman87i can't quite figure out exactly what's causing them
04:12.18brlcadthat usually means that the hit points being returned from shot() aren't sorted
04:13.20brlcadan exit before an entry for the given shotline .. or a problem actually in norm()
04:13.34pacman87i think it's in norm()
04:13.58pacman87does it ever ask for the normal for a hit other than the first one?
04:14.13brlcadrt doesn't
04:14.25brlcadbut the "first one" might be wrong if they're not sorted right from shot()
04:14.41pacman87ok, i'll look at that again
04:15.15pacman87for a revolve about Z, i use x/y coords, plus the slope of the line at the hitpoint
04:16.17pacman87but that doesnt tell me which way is out from the surface
04:17.46pacman87so i end up doing my own dot test between normal direction and ray direction to see if i should flip
04:17.58pacman87which assumes only the first hit's normal is used
04:19.21brlcadnoteworthy: "Subversion service will be offline on 2008-07-30 from 17:00 Pacific for not more than 12 hours to permit a rebuild of the storage used by the service, followed by further performance tuning."
04:20.20pacman87is there a way to check whether a hitpoint is an 'in' or an 'out'?
04:20.24brlcadthat should be a fair assumption
04:21.18brlcadobviously shouldn't be going away from the ray direction, should be coming back towards it
04:21.29pacman87right, that's what i'm doing
04:22.35brlcadthere's not really a fixed solution to check, primitive-specific -- usually, though, the logic goes into shot() and it just makes sure there is the right parity and ordering
04:22.45brlcadso norm can just pop off the first hit and return the normal
04:22.53brlcadthere is an rt flag to debug normals
04:26.17brlcadvarious ways to do it using either nirt or rt, the trick being to just fire a single ray so you're not drowned in data and use the -x option
04:26.33brlcadvarious debug flags listed in include/raytrace.h, -x2 being useful for this
04:26.50brlcadit'll tell you the in/out segments
04:27.39pacman87the thing is, the normal direction is right, so it's shaded properly; it's just reversed
04:28.06brlcadnirt -x2 something.g your_object .. then there are a slew of interactive commands for shooting from az/el's of interest for example
04:28.37brlcadrt trys to compensate when it gets a flipped normal by flipping it for you
04:28.45brlcadit does the same dot check
04:39.06Ralithhm, something's wrong with nirt's manpage
04:39.45Ralith<standard input>:785: cannot use character `1' as a starting delimiter
04:42.49pacman87ah, i think i found it
04:43.09pacman87paying attention to the surfno in the flipped normals error is helpful
04:43.39pacman87my initial assumption that the sketch was always +x is coming back to bite me
04:57.45brlcadah
04:57.59brlcadRalith: there are only so many 1's in there, maybe you can pinpoint it? :)
04:58.46brlcadah, I found it
04:59.12brlcadknows not what h does
04:59.17RalithI was going to
04:59.19Ralithbut then you found it
04:59.30Ralithcommitstealer. >_>
04:59.47brlcadheh
05:07.32pacman87success!
05:07.50brlcad~pacman87++
05:07.56CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32124 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/nirt.1: fix the manpage so it doesn't have a \h 1 delimiter error. snarf a .FN macro to list the files
05:08.39starseekerreturns to home base
05:11.11brlcadstarseeker: wow, long day :)
05:11.16CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32125 10/brlcad/trunk/src/fbed/fbed.1: apply the .FN macro
05:11.25brlcadwas thinking about maybe heading in soon
05:11.27starseekeris ready to admit he probably went about the release prep the wrong way
05:11.35starseekerheh - figures
05:11.40brlcadmy shedule is about 12 hours off sync now
05:11.53pacman87brlcad: move to new zealand
05:11.59starseekerat this rate, I'll show up about when you leave ;-)
05:12.04brlcadpacman87: heh
05:12.15brlcadusually operates on west coast US time
05:12.45starseekeris agast that subversion will be down - bad timing!
05:13.19starseekerjust when I'm going back and checking incrementally
05:13.20pacman87set up your own svn on brlcad's server?
05:13.34starseekercould grab a git repo
05:13.38starseekeror make one rather
05:14.21starseekerbrlcad:  At least make fun of my release prep so I don't feel so newbish
05:15.33brlcador just build up into a bigger commit since you're on a branch, it's probably not worth the effort to do anything else but wait
05:16.02brlcadstarseeker: make fun of it? heh
05:16.10brlcadit is rather .. methodical :)
05:16.36brlcadbut good experience reviewing/merging changes too
05:16.51starseekeridiotic - I should have checked incrementally.  I sucked in some libged stuff without intending to, and now it's well and truly foobared
05:17.21brlcadyou can undo individual ranges if you know the revision numbers
05:17.38starseekernods
05:17.44brlcadsvn merge -rstart:end
05:18.14starseekeronce I find the first breakage commit, that's probably what I'll do
05:18.15brlcadwhere start would be the newest and end the pre-commit state -- that reverts the change
05:19.04starseekercool
05:19.16starseekerdid that a couple times when he grabbed the wrong range
05:20.15starseekerI'm guessing I started to go off base when I merged in the primitive reorg - hyp and friends probably snuck in
05:20.47pacman87aww, poor hyp didn't want to be left out of the fun ;)
05:20.55starseekerheh :-)
05:21.23starseekerit's not quite ready for stable - that's most of the challenge for this release, and the reason it requires a branch
05:21.34starseekertrunk has a lot of stuff in flux right now
05:21.34pacman87i understand
05:22.52pacman87if i have spare time during the 'finalize week', i'll look into finishing the todo for hyp
05:22.59starseekercool :-)
05:23.10pacman87when's the release date?
05:23.40starseekerwhenever I get the branch straightened out and tested - probably sometime next week at this rate
05:24.01starseekerdoesn't even want to think about the Windows build...
05:24.38starseekerbrlcad:  If you do go in soon, watch out for the deer - I must have seen four or five on the way out
05:24.38pacman87just use (wine)^-1
05:24.51starseekerheh
05:25.03pacman87translate from linux to windows calls
05:25.24Raliththat's called mingw
05:25.56brlcadstarseeker: yeah, it's always that way after about 10pm
05:26.56pacman87"Students can begin submitting required code samples to Google" - from gsoc timeline
05:26.58brlcadi don't know that i've ever not seen one traveling between 10pm and 4am
05:27.12pacman87what's that mean?
05:27.28brlcadpacman87: you upload code you've worked on
05:28.02brlcadthat's technically your actual legal responsibility per the arrangement in place, that's what they pay you for
05:28.17pacman87hmm, don't remmeber reading that part
05:28.25pacman87and i though i read through the whole think
05:28.27pacman87thing*
05:28.29brlcadwhich can be anything really, usually a tarball of files you've worked on, or svn diffs
05:28.37starseekerthinks dark thoughts about venison burgers and realizes he probably needs sleep
05:30.52brlcadcrazy talk
05:31.21CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32126 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (7 files in 5 dirs): apply the same FN macro changes consistently to the (surprisingly few) manual pages that have a FILES section.
05:31.36starseekermy grandfather used to hunt - venison meat is actually pretty darn tasty when prepared right
05:32.19brlcadnods
05:33.15brlcadone of the guys (that you haven't met yet) that used to work next to where you're sitting would bring in deer sticks and deer steaks from time to time, delicious
05:33.42starseeker:-)
05:34.26starseekerwants to read the slashdot LaTeX article but remembers he needs to be present at a presentation tomorrow...
05:34.40starseekerbrlcad:  Incidently, thanks for reviewing that for her
05:34.43pacman87present and alert, or just present?
05:35.05starseekersnores, so at a minimum I need to be awake
05:35.12brlcadgrrrr...
05:35.12brlcaddata is pending on stdin
05:35.12brlcadDATA is: []
05:35.26starseekerthat's... odd
05:35.48pacman87wonders how he lived for so long without knowing shitf+left/right arrow to change konsole tabs
05:48.49RalithI don't understand the complaints some people have about LaTeX
05:49.41Ralithfor me at least, it had very little learning curve (largely thanks to google) and behaved wonderfully for everything short of long URLs, which it can't seem to work out when to break.
05:54.19pacman87brlcad: i'd rather keep " [ (x*x) / aa^2 ] - [ (y-h)^2 / bb^2 ] = 1 " in a comment in revolve, so i can remember where my variables are used in the formula for a hyperbola
06:01.42pacman87ctrl+z just saved my life
06:03.39brlcadpacman87: ok .. am I supposed to object to useful comments? :)
06:04.00pacman87you deleted it with the rest of the old code
06:04.11brlcadmany of them spell out their equations, it's a good thing
06:04.15brlcadooh, that wasn't intentional
06:04.23brlcadit was more the code
06:04.31brlcadsorry about that
06:07.27pacman87np, but i'm pretty sure that line isnt' valid C when uncommented ;)
06:07.59brlcaddepends on what cpp macros are defines ;)
06:08.29brlcads/defines/defined/
06:08.56pacman87ok, maybe.  but even if that was valid, it'd be horrible coding practice
06:09.55brlcadindeed
06:10.01brlcadobfuscated fun
06:10.11brlcadugh, the is horrible .. select says there is data waiting on stdin .. but there's nothing to read
06:10.29brlcadthat's seriously screwing with detecting whether we're interactive or not
06:10.56pacman87how hard would it be to add mged history between sessions?
06:12.02brlcadnot too hard, could probably keep a .mged_history file with a few variables to control it
06:12.31pacman87i find myself exiting to do make && make install
06:12.34pacman87then restarting
06:12.42pacman87and wanting to run the same commands again
06:13.05pacman87i've been using ; to seperate commands on a line
06:13.08brlcadyeah, that's be pretty useful
06:13.10pacman87and shift+insert
06:22.06CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r32127 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/ (revolve/revolve.c sketch/sketch.c):
06:22.06CIA-23BRL-CAD: change revolve to use a union instead of an xor when the -X and +X sides of a
06:22.06CIA-23BRL-CAD: revolve overlap (ie, angle > 180). also, modify norm() to give the proper
06:22.06CIA-23BRL-CAD: vector direction when the start/end surface is hit on a point with a -X
06:22.06CIA-23BRL-CAD: coordinate.
06:22.12pacman87that took way longer than it should've
06:22.31pacman87i need more practice merging
06:23.09pacman87almost completely wiped out my changes, then wiped out the other updates, and had to merge by hand
06:23.30pacman87and being past 1am probably had something to do with it
06:23.38pacman87anyway, goodnight
06:23.42brlcador could work on a direct checkout too ;)
06:23.53brlcadavoid the hassle altogether
06:24.16pacman87i usually do
06:24.32brlcadso why not?
06:24.52pacman87well, if i'm working and you commit changes, i'll have to merge, right
06:24.53pacman87?
06:25.25brlcadah, you mean actually just dealing with svn update merging, conflicts, etc?
06:25.30pacman87yes
06:25.34brlcadah, misunderstood
06:25.41brlcadthough you were merging from a separate copy
06:25.51pacman87since i'm usually the only one working on my files, i rarely have to deal with it
06:26.00pacman87i think maybe three times so far
06:26.04brlcadah
06:26.11pacman87and most of those were oneliners
06:26.12brlcadshame that you can actually count the times
06:26.32brlcadwhat's really cool is seeing a half dozen guys all hit the same file simultaneously trying to get something done fast
06:26.41pacman87sounds scary
06:26.56brlcadyou end up wanting to svn up faster than you save
06:27.18brlcadreally cool watching the file grow, though
06:27.37pacman87so long as everyone know what part they're doing
06:27.47brlcadjust wish it could be done live -- like with shared emacs editing sessions very cool to watch code just grow live in front of you
06:27.58brlcadtwo people editing the same line simultaneously
06:28.00pacman87that would be cool
06:28.10brlcadit works, it's just a pita to set up
06:28.28pacman87use comments to discuss code
06:28.34brlcadsubethaedit folks also have it working, but for lan-only
06:28.53brlcadyeah, like google docs, but for code
06:29.51pacman87really should be asleep, have fun playing with/trying to break revolve
06:29.56brlcadnow if someone made a module to eclipse for that, I'd seriously revisit a switch .. something that keeps you continuously up to date with live code updates (line by line)
06:30.01brlcadhehe, k
06:30.17pacman87too bad i can't distcc sleep
06:30.35pacman87everyone else in the house is asleep, i'd be perfect
06:30.48brlcad:)
06:31.07brlcadthe answer to that is to wake everyone else up, then go to bed
06:31.37brlcadyay, progress
06:31.55brlcadstdin has an exception pending in addition to select saying it's ready for reading
06:32.07brlcadeven though feof and ferror are clear
06:34.20brlcadand NOW I run across a DDD snippet that does exactly what I just implemented
06:37.30brlcadconsults the stevens bible
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07:13.11CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32128 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c: restore the other portion of the comment that I accidentally blew away
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07:52.42d_rossbergpacman87: i would recommend to initialize "angle" in rt_revolve_shot before using it
08:00.52CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32129 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: some modifications to be consistent with Makefile.am
08:04.44CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32130 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: presumably which.c, not which
08:06.54CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32131 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.c: (log message trimmed)
08:06.54CIA-23BRL-CAD: significant change to mged's initialization. instead of using the (flawed)
08:06.54CIA-23BRL-CAD: approach of using isatty() to determine if we're interactive, make interactive
08:06.54CIA-23BRL-CAD: the default mode and find a reason to not be interactive. this is done by
08:06.54CIA-23BRL-CAD: checking for command-mode args or redirected standard input. the latter one in
08:06.57CIA-23BRL-CAD: particular was tricky given some means to invoke the application might leave the
08:06.59CIA-23BRL-CAD: stdin read fd set even though there may be no data. this was specifically
08:09.55CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32132 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
08:09.55CIA-23BRL-CAD: make it possible to have mged invoked without needing a controlling terminal
08:09.55CIA-23BRL-CAD: (e.g. as an icon or menu item). this specifically supports sf bug report
08:09.55CIA-23BRL-CAD: 2019280 (mged incorrectly deduces interactivity) from lode_leroy where he tried
08:09.56CIA-23BRL-CAD: to create a linux mged.desktop icon. was previously using a flawed approach
08:09.58CIA-23BRL-CAD: that assumed being invoked from a controlling terminal.
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08:24.49CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32133 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
08:24.49CIA-23BRL-CAD: bu_log() and friends use %S for bu_vls structures. this was
08:24.49CIA-23BRL-CAD: implemented long before libc decided to use it as an alias for %ls to
08:24.49CIA-23BRL-CAD: support wchar_t strings. we should migrate to something else unused
08:24.49CIA-23BRL-CAD: (like %V). somewhat non-trivial effort to deprecate and update even
08:24.50CIA-23BRL-CAD: our own uses safely.
08:26.30CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32134 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.c: minor cleanup. quell warnings, add some headers.
08:43.50CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32135 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/CMakeLists.txt:
08:43.50CIA-23BRL-CAD: stab in the dark. add the entire include directory to the run-time library
08:43.50CIA-23BRL-CAD: package so that folks can compile against the libraries. this was requested by
08:43.50CIA-23BRL-CAD: tom browder (ajem) in sf feature request 2019346 (Run-time Library Packaging).
08:51.22d_rossbergif it would be so easy i would have already done it
08:51.28d_rossberg;)
08:52.04*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
09:02.38mafmhey
09:06.37Ralithhey mafm
09:06.41Ralithgot g3d working :]
09:07.00Ralithhad fun rotating your occluded wireframe
09:07.15CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32136 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): deprecate the duplicitous '-n' (not-new) option to mged. use -c console/classic/command option instead.
09:07.17mafmyup, I saw it
09:07.21mafmcongrats :)
09:07.41Ralithalthough either your 'zoom' actually moves the camera around or your near clipping plane is set unreasonably
09:07.49Ralithcuz the example object dissapears after very little zooming in
09:08.33mafmI don't set the near clipping plane, so it must be ogre defaults
09:08.42Ralith(also, random though -- perhaps you could optionally render places where the near clipping plane intersects with an object as a specially colored surface?)
09:08.47mafmbut the zoom actually moves the camera, yes
09:09.12Ralithmightn't literally zooming in be preferable?
09:09.32Ralithalternatively, consider logarythmic progression of zoom towards/away from the point on which the camera is centered.
09:11.25mafmI only discovered the zooming (by modifying size of window camera) yesterday, so the rest is implemented with distances
09:11.44Ralithbut what're your thoughts on the Correct Way?
09:11.57Ralithbtw, I'm happy to try implementing this myself, if you like
09:13.30mafmdunno what's the correct way, I'm still fighting to implement some of the MGED's functionalities
09:14.27mafmand trying to mimic them (Blender and MGED), althought the numeric approaches -zoom increments and so on- might not be always the more adequate
09:14.50mafmso maybe things like log() are more adequate, who knows
09:14.55RalithI think both zoom and camera movement should probably be supported
09:15.07Raliththough I'm not sure how to do so elegantly
09:15.44Ralithfor orthographic views it doesn't matter much, but once we start mapping g3d camera -> render config, this might become important
09:16.37RalithI've got to go for the night -- if you've got any thoughts, including things that I could work on now that I've got commit access, I'd be interested to hear them in email.
09:17.33mafmok
09:17.51mafmthe thing is that I'm still fighting my way to finish some of the milestones for gsoc
09:18.12mafmI don't know if your work in some of the areas would be considered interfering or not
09:18.24mafmprobably not from brlcad's (the person) point of view
09:18.32Ralithsean mentioned that collaboration was encouraged by gsoc
09:18.42RalithI'm not sure of the specifics
09:19.06mafmyou have my plans in the wiki page
09:19.11Ralithbut I'm eager to work on whatever I can there.
09:19.27Ralithspecifics insofar as the difference between collaboration and interference.
09:19.27mafmI'm now trying to make a widget from rbgui, mged mode needs to be finished
09:19.50RalithI'm hesitant to pick work items off your TODO list for that reason
09:19.58mafmalso Sean wants me to make a binary release
09:20.09Ralithtweaks and elaborations on what's already there are another matter
09:20.18Ralithanyway
09:20.19mafmand another thing that I can't remember at the moment
09:20.22Ralithwe can discuss this more later
09:20.24Ralithgtg
09:20.27Ralithgood luck
09:20.31mafmokay, g'night!
09:20.33mafm:)
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12:58.15yukonbobmorning, cadheads
12:59.55brlcadhowdy yukonbob
13:00.14brlcadponders taking a nap or heading in
13:01.44yukonbobgets ready to head to work...
13:03.48yukonbob...and heads out.
13:04.10yukonbobbbl. Hope everybody has a good day...
13:07.35brlcadlikewise!
13:11.07brlcadmafm: absolutely, you should put him to work given he's interested (and capable)
13:11.44brlcadit's all about grooming new devs, not reaching some end-of-summer project goal
13:13.23brlcadthere's nothing he could do that will negatively reflect on you no matter how much you collaborate (nor what he screws up)
13:14.16brlcadideally if this wasn't such a busy summer, all the devs would have been heavily coordinating with other devs on their projects throughout
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13:52.55starseekerbrlcad:  Is there any way to run filemerge on OSX from the command line, supplying the two files as arguments?
13:53.51brlcaddunno
13:53.52brlcadprobably
13:54.00brlcadrun the binary directly
13:54.54brlcadtries
13:55.39brlcaddoesn't look like it
13:55.57brlcadwould have to script it via applescript
13:58.23starseekerick
13:58.33starseekerlikes xxdiff
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14:01.32starseekerbrlcad:  ah - does opendiff work?
14:02.08starseekerreads man page on web and is hopeful
14:02.23starseekerthat would increase the utility of FileMerge considerably
14:02.32starseekerOK, time to get in there
14:13.49starseekernote to self - check this out: http://ssel.vub.ac.be/ssel/internal:fmdiff
14:24.58brlcadah yeah, opendiff does it
14:25.57CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32137 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/CMakeLists.txt: undo previous change, it breaks the CMake build (add_subdirectory has to point to a directory containing a CMakeLists.txt file) and has no effect on the *_devel package
14:26.26brlcadoopses
14:26.36brlcadblind stab ftl
14:29.18d_rossbergcommented your commit here in the irc
14:30.01d_rossbergi've created a package which includes the header files
14:32.21brlcadyeah, I read it .. but didn't imply that it was a totally failed attempt :)
14:32.52brlcadtook it as "incomplete", was just busy processing to comment at the time
15:02.45andrecastelogood morning all
15:03.15pacman87morning, andrecastelo
15:03.50andrecasteloi've been looking at the light sources creation, using light_maker(), in sh_light.c and it doesn't set a specific position for the light
15:04.15andrecastelomakes sense, since default light rays give the impression of being parallel..
15:04.30andrecasteloit does, however, set up the direction of the light
15:04.56andrecastelois it safe to make the secondary rays point in the opposite direction?
15:06.21andrecastelowhen the light list is not empty, I get the first element position though
15:11.52pacman87secondary rays for shadows?
15:15.54andrecasteloyes
15:16.04andrecastelothe ones that i shoot after the first hit
15:20.23pacman87then yes, the secondary rays would point opposite to the light direction
15:20.35pacman87the question now is 'how far away is the light source'?
15:24.25andrecastelowhy? i think that at the moment it doesn't matter
15:25.29pacman87i guess you could assume the light source is infinately far away
15:26.23pacman87you need distance to the light in order to determine whether the first intersection of your secondary ray is before or after you get to the light source
15:30.09andrecastelohmm.. true
15:30.55pacman87though for default illumination, putting it at infinity is probably fine
15:48.52mafmbrlcad: so he can chime in and work on *anything*?
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16:04.37pacman87primitives/arb8/arb8.c:1771: error: conflicting types for 'rt_arb_calc_planes'
16:41.26CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32138 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.c: Minor mods to get things compiling. :-)
16:58.36CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32139 10/brlcad/trunk/ (19 files in 4 dirs): Convert more dg_obj commands for use by libged (i.e. rtcheck, rtabort, importFg4Section and vdraw.
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18:31.28CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32140 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/:
18:35.51CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32141 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/:
18:36.28CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32142 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/java/:
18:37.45CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32143 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/java/stractNet/:
18:37.58CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32144 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/title.c: Fixed typo.
18:38.08CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32145 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/java/stractThread/:
18:42.29CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32146 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/stractNet/:
18:58.46CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32147 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/tol.c: Mods to allow getting individual tolerance settings.
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19:05.31mafmhi Ralith
19:05.51mafmI was about to write you, but basically: you can work on anything you want
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19:08.11mafmRalith: preferably if it's not something in what I'm working on without agreement ;) you have the list of what I do in the wiki
19:09.27CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32148 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/summary.c: Minor alteration of the error message.
19:09.55Ralithmafm: so leave the stuff on the wiki alone?
19:10.43mafmYou can work in things like platform/compilation support, if that pleases you
19:11.00mafmincluding to make releases, is one of the things that Sean wanted to see
19:11.47mafmif you want to work with cameras as you suggested before, I can also delegate, but it's something that I was working on actively and some things are not finished yet (e.g. some MGED constrained modes)
19:12.30mafmso I think that either you or me do it, but not both at the same time (because I think that involves some possible heavy refactoring/redesign)
19:12.59mafmnow I'm trying to create a window to control the camera, using some custom widgets
19:13.15mafmand the last remaining part is to start showing real geometry, using libged
19:14.33mafmRalith: http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Mafm#To_finish_GSoC (and the log, in the bottom, might be also interesting for you)
19:14.38mafmI have to go now, see you! :)
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19:53.11CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32149 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/showmats.c: Flesh out the showmats command.
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19:54.17pooliostabs a tgc
20:08.50*** join/#brlcad Rigolo (n=rigolo@cc14973-d.zwoll1.ov.home.nl)
20:08.57Rigologood evening ...
20:15.29*** join/#brlcad saltan (n=lievensa@d51530284.access.telenet.be)
20:15.45Rigologood evening ...
20:16.00saltanevening all
20:16.13Rigolowell .. all ...
20:16.29Rigolohas been her now for a few minutes .. and nobody talks :-)
20:16.36saltanevening some
20:16.36Rigolountill you joined
20:16.57Rigolosaltan: can I ask you a BRL-CAD conversion question?
20:17.11saltanplease do but not an expert
20:17.32Rigoloknows noting about BRL-CAD ... so everybody in my is the expert
20:17.45Rigolohave you ever heard about the openmoko project?
20:18.05jonoredgrins and covets.
20:18.22saltanNo, can't say that I have
20:18.26starseekerRigolo:  If you're asking about converting their cad files to BRL-CAD, we can convert the IGES files - sort of
20:18.42Rigolostarseeker: that was indeed my question .. :-)
20:19.15Rigoloon their wiki they are looking for other formats than what they currently have ... so i thought .. let's ask here
20:19.27saltanis off to find openmoko on the net
20:19.54Rigolosaltan: openmoko.org ... they are building a complete "free" mobile phone
20:20.27Rigolohttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_case_schematics that is where the CAD drawings for their phone can be found
20:20.29starseekerhttp://brlcad.org/gallery/s/screenshots/iges-openmoko-conversion.png.html
20:20.49Rigolosee .. I should have googled some more :-)
20:21.28jonoredcovets because he wants a phone that'll actually let him compile and use SSH and gpsd, and can be casemodded to survive being strapped to the outside of a kayak...
20:21.56Rigolojonored: well .. then openmoko is your friend :-)
20:22.06Rigolossh and gpsd are standard on the new freerunner
20:22.56Rigoloalthough still under development .... you can make and receive calls, connect via sub to your desktop .. and then ssh into your phone
20:23.01starseekeriges-g is the convertor used - I forget the options
20:23.13starseekerso far i can only get the wireframe though
20:23.20Rigoloit contains a agps device ...
20:23.48Rigolostarseeker: and the other formats .. like those Pro/E files?
20:24.40starseekerPro/E - not on its own, no
20:25.11starseekerneeds other (commercial) libraries
20:25.34jonoredI'd expect them to be - unfortunately, family plan with sister where only verizon has coverage for two years. And I've been curious whether it's actually got more computing power than my current laptop (CF-27, 300mhz PII..) - and ssh and phone (X perhaps) are all I need anyways :)
20:25.36starseekerPro/E formats aren't documented anywhere that I'm aware of, so importing them directly is a tough problem
20:25.42Rigolostarseeker: okee ..because the wikipedia says it can import them ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_CAD_software
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20:26.27starseekerRigolo:  You might ask brlcad about that, when he shows up
20:27.21Rigolojonored: X is also on there .. it has a VGA touchscreen display (640x480 2.8")
20:27.27jonoredRigolo: I think the restriction is something loosely on the order of requiring a copy of Pro-E to do conversions with it's format.
20:28.22Rigolojonored: okee ... so if the people that made these drawings (apparently using Pro/E) install BRL-CAD .. they could do it them selfs?
20:28.28jonoredis aware. He's aware of the device, just stuck not having a service he can run it on for a couple years, and so hasn't ordered one already.
20:28.56Rigolohas one right here .. to the left ... GSM is eveywhere here in .nl
20:29.13Rigolowell ... you could start with the gps bits :-)
20:29.21Rigoloand start using the phone later :-)
20:29.46jonoredRigolo: For that I'm not sure - I was more justifying the listing of being able to convert, as it's as possible as it's reasonable to make it.
20:30.58Rigolojonored: okee ... well ... I might update the openmoko wiki page and point to BRL-CAD as at least an opensource free software applicaiton that can do something with the CAD files
20:31.50RalithRigolo: does the latest model support 3G?
20:32.01Ralithstarseeker: 'sort of' import IGES?
20:32.03Rigolojonored: and ... within 2 years you must be able to design a nice casing for the freerunner
20:32.10jonoredThere's also the part where it's on the list after college expenses and a reprap :) - and GSM is, unfortunately, not available in the north end of Vermont - hence the sister needing verizon.
20:32.20RigoloRalith: no, only GSM with GPRS at the moment
20:32.33Rigolobut is has wifi
20:32.35RalithRigolo: call me when they've got 3G, then I want one.
20:32.38Ralithwifi drains battery life like no other.
20:32.39starseekerRalith:  It doesn't quite get you what you're probably expecting - it's not something (so far)  that I can raytrace, for example
20:32.53Ralithstarseeker: that doesn't sound like a very useful import
20:33.21Ralithit seems silly for me to ask you this, but did you try creating regions of the parts manually?
20:33.39RigoloRalith: no idea when that happens ... it is hard to get a "open" 3G chipset at the moment ... and that is not to expensive
20:33.45starseekerno, I was just testing the direct conversion
20:34.02RalithRigolo: unless the openmoko becomes incredibly cheap, I don't really care about the 'why'
20:34.14starseekerI rather expect we'll need robust BREP support before we can really handle openmoko importing "properly"
20:34.17RalithI mean, it sounds like the perfect phone in all other respect
20:34.18Raliths
20:34.24starseekeragain, brlcad is the real expert here
20:34.33Ralithbut I might as well wait for a proper commercial android phone
20:35.02RigoloRalith: even on androids you can not get to the real low level .. like with the openmoko phones
20:35.18RalithRigolo: they're linux. What's stopping me?
20:35.56Ralithjonored: by the way, did you start out here and go to reprap or vis versa? I can't work out where you originated >:|
20:36.08jonoredRalith: Possibly no root, binary kernel modules with tight lockdowns...
20:36.11RigoloRalith: start reading about android .... as far as I can tell .. they use a linux framework, but you can not "escape" from the android enviroment .. but I might be wrong
20:36.36Ralithjonored: that sounds kinda ghey
20:36.48RalithRigolo: you can escape from any environment when you own the hardware
20:37.35RigoloRalith: well, but if you can do anything with it .. that is an other question
20:38.44jonoredRalith: I've been watching the reprap since it was meccano and hot glue guns (and trying a little to get going doing useful things), and looking at BRL-CAD (and playing with it a little) since it hit slashdot... and just started using IRC, so hit the channels :)
20:38.47Ralithit'd be ludicrous if they didn't give you root
20:38.50Ralitheven the iphone gives you root
20:38.58Ralithjonored: oh, neat!
20:39.01Ralitha kindred spirit :>
20:39.08RigoloRalith: .... software installed by end-users must be written in Java, and will not have access to lower level device APIs ...
20:39.17RalithRigolo: that sounds like BS to me
20:39.18Rigolohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Android#Criticism
20:39.35Ralithwikipedia is not my idea of a reliable source :P
20:39.54RigoloRalith: and the iphone does not give you real root .... you can not run anything on the iPhone when it is not signed by apple
20:40.56Rigolohttp://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/why-free-software-and-apples-iphone-dont-mix .. read this then :-)
20:41.45RalithRigolo: people do it all the time; it's called hacking it :P
20:41.50Rigolobut ... this channel is about BRL-CAD .. not iphones and the pro and cons of free software :-)
20:42.04Ralithin practice I don't care if something's locked down if it's a straightforward hack
20:42.04RigoloRalith: well .. .the iPhone linux guys are still strugling ...
20:42.15Ralithiphones are already unixy enough for me
20:42.26RigoloRalith: okee
20:43.02jonoredThe openmoko thing is a bit like the differene between having a tivo that's built on linux and hacking into it and having a gentoo box running a media app...
20:43.02RalithI'm more interested in just where you got the idea that andriod would only support java for third party stuff
20:43.38Ralithjonored: to me, that says "openmoko probably won't work, but at least it'll take all week to set up."
20:43.52Rigolohttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/02/google_android_developers_view/
20:44.19Rigoloand openmoko at the moment works for basic things like calls and sms ..
20:44.29starseekeruses and likes Gentoo
20:45.03Rigoloopenmoko is build using the openembedded framework ...
20:45.31RalithRigolo: that says quite clearly that *all* apps run on a VM, not that java is used
20:45.46jonoredis quite pleased with his Gentoo machine; it's the one that lives on his back in the CF-27.
20:45.58Rigoloand just like with any linux device .. there are multiple "distributions" already .. so you can choose what you like .. but don't expect the iphone user experiance just yet
20:46.36RalithRigolo: I don't mind a unpolished GUI. Ever used windows mobile?
20:46.47RalithYou wouldn't believe how horrible their GUI is.
20:46.48RigoloRalith: http://www.betaversion.org/~stefano/linotype/news/110/
20:47.03RigoloRalith: that is why I never user WinMob
20:47.32RalithWhat I want is mobile high speed internets in a pocketable form, and with a sufficiently unixy system that I can do fun things like set it up as a wifi access point
20:48.16RigoloRalith: well .. that last bit kills the moko for your completly .. their wifi chips do not allow AP functionality .. only client
20:48.33Raliththat can be prevented in hardware?
20:48.38Rigolobut don't expect an android phone to do that either
20:48.41Raliththat sucks
20:48.43Ralithbut it was only an example
20:48.46RigoloRalith: yes
20:48.50RigoloRalith: oke :-)
20:49.02RalithRigolo: that agains says that java is not used, and the former article implies that the VM is language independent
20:49.08Ralithreally
20:49.17Ralithso long as I can make the thing route traffic from outside sources
20:49.20RalithI don't mind having to wire it up
20:49.37starseekerAh, no wonder they hyp primitive got sucked into the reorg - it was there in 7.12.4
20:49.38RigoloRalith: android apps are writen in java .. and then compiles to a google owned VM enviroment
20:49.38RalithRigolo: can it do USB host?
20:50.03Ralithstarseeker: despite being considered incomplete?
20:50.05RigoloRalith: openmoko can do both ... but usb 1.1 on this version
20:50.21Ralithso long as it can be a host
20:50.24jonoredRalith: Being an AP requires capabilities that aren't required for being a client - it's not really surprising that they wouldn't neccessarily include it in a chipset.
20:50.36Ralithjonored: I wasn't sure how much is done in hardware.
20:50.48starseekerRalith:  it happens sometimes - 7-12-4 was a tag, it might have been removed from the tarball
20:51.11Ralithif openmoko can be a USB host, that probably means I could wire up a USB wifi stick that *does* have AP support
20:51.19Ralitheven if it's unpowered host, it's not too hard to stick a battery inline
20:51.41jonoredRalith: Depends on the chipset, I think.
20:51.43Raliththen, instant mobile wireless internet for anyone in my vicinity :>
20:51.46Ralithjonored: huh?
20:51.52RigoloRalith: yes ... that should work ...
20:52.05Ralithawesomeness.
20:52.15Ralithstill needs to have 3G before I spend >$100 on one though
20:52.16RigoloRalith: but I already did that with a 50 Euro ASUS wifi router and a UMTS usb card ..
20:52.37Ralithcan you make/receive phone calls with that router? :P
20:52.50Rigoloconnected a complete computer retails shop like that for over 30 days
20:52.51Ralithone cellular subscription is enough, ty
20:53.03Ralithalthough
20:53.12Ralithdo you know where I could get a USB HSDPA card for not-hugely-expensive?
20:53.25Ralithwith north american frequency support
20:53.50Rigolonot straight away .... got mine via my provider .. with a 2 year unlimited data only plan ...
20:54.15Rigoloand cancelled that after 30 days .. (and got money back ..minus one month subscription fee)
20:54.56RalithUS cell phone providers are nowhere near as kind
20:55.05Ralith$200+ cancellation fees
20:55.13Ralithshitty hardware-with-contract deals
20:55.17Rigolowell .. it helped that we had 200 other subscriptions with them :-)
20:55.24Ralithheh
20:55.50Rigoloand .. they were also our DSL provider that scrwed up with installing DSL at a new shop :-)
20:55.55Ralithhas a PCMCIA HSDPA card, but his new laptop only has an express card slot >:|
20:56.24RigoloRalith: there must be express cards with HSDPA out there .. or not?
20:57.53jonoredRalith: If there are USB ones, then there should be express card ones - same design, just a different connector - USB is one of the lines going to that slot.
20:59.29Raliththere are plenty, they're just all very expensive
20:59.46Ralith$200+ for what I've seen
20:59.57Ralithcellular tech is very price-raped :(
21:00.06jonoredAh, okay.
21:00.38Ralithwhereas my PCMCIA card was about $70 on ebay
21:02.49saltanis off now and thanks for fascinating banter
21:04.16Rigoloand Rigolo is also going .. thanks for the update on BRL-CAD and openmoko CAD files :-)
21:08.15*** part/#brlcad Rigolo (n=rigolo@cc14973-d.zwoll1.ov.home.nl)
21:09.37CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32150 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (9 files): detemplating the PCSet class. Using a list of VariableAbstract* rather than Variable<T> to hold the set of Variables. noticing valgrind memory leak of 160 bytes : due to pc_pc_set macros/functions
21:12.19Ralithso poolio's working on the code to generate an accurate set of surfaces from an arbitrary region is poolio's WIP, right? Anyone feel able to quantify the state of that project?
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21:55.50CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32151 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/current_successful_compile_rev.txt: builds ok to this point with the one exception noted.
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22:46.26CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32152 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcPCSet.cpp pcPCSet.h): forward declaration of Constraint Class and definition of getVariableID function so as to support usage of PCSet methods by the constraint object
22:49.22CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32153 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcConstraint.cpp pcConstraint.h solver_test.cpp): specifying PCSet reference in the constraint object and corresponding modification in the constructors
23:05.16CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r32154 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc9/libged/libged.vcproj: Added several missing files to the msvc9 build.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080731

00:08.26*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
00:26.51yukonbobhello, cadheads
00:34.02brlcadhowdy yukonbob
00:34.49yukonbobhow'd your day turn out?
00:40.12starseekergoes into convulsions as sourceforge svn goes offline...
00:43.43starseekerdecides to do some Gentoo upgrading...
00:45.06brlcadyukonbob: alright, sort of a day of exhausted relaxation before the storm
00:50.33starseekerproposes a study of brlcad to learn how to make a human body function without sleep
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01:04.42brlcadpractice makes perfect!
01:13.08starseekersees slashdot article on virtualbox and checks it out
01:27.50stustevgood evening - is anyone up for another question? Here goes. Is there a way to run a script and have the script history in the command window?
01:29.55brlcadhowdy stustev .. hmm
01:30.09stustevgood evening
01:30.10brlcadI think the short answer is no
01:30.18stustevthat's too short
01:31.33stustevthat would be very nice for me. Write a script, load the script without running it and step through it to make it work
01:32.32brlcadI can see the utility in that, but it'd probably require a new command or an option to an existing command
01:33.04brlcadactually, could probably write a little tcl script that does exactly that for you
01:33.31stustevjust give me an idea how to do it and I will try to do it
01:33.42brlcaddoes fopen on specified file, loops over lines in the file, runs each line interactively asking if it's okay or to skip
01:34.15brlcadproc hello {args} {
01:34.23brlcad<PROTECTED>
01:34.24brlcad}
01:34.30brlcadhello
01:34.52stustevI am here - just talking to my daughter
01:35.02brlcadfrom there, just find a tutorial on-line for reading the lines from a file
01:35.21brlcad(using Tcl)
01:35.35brlcadshould be all of about 20 lines of code probably
01:35.57stustevI will look at it - thanks
01:36.18brlcadif you get stuck, let me know
01:42.11stustevI am already stuck - but I want to try anyway - It will take more time to help me do it than if you did it yourself but then I would learn anything. :)
01:43.16stustevI have been scripting models today. It is a LOT like APT programming. I am an APT programmer.
01:44.42``Erikmy condolances
01:44.56stustev:)
01:47.15stustevhere is not a way to read the whole script into the command window and then be able to move forward and back in the file using the keyboard? Just like what you would have if you typed the script into the command window?
01:47.21stustevthere
01:53.19stustevCan I put a command in the script to over write the existing database with the created database when the script runs? Even better would be a question when I load the script "Do you want to erase the existing database: Y/N".
01:57.35brlcadalmost made it off post, only to turn right back around
01:57.51stustevwelcome back
02:01.20*** join/#brlcad ibot_ (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
02:01.20*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code! || Release 7.12.4 is posted (source-only release)
02:01.23brlcada litl bit of tcl scripting
02:02.32stustevThe command to load the file? Is it possible to load the entire file instead of one line at a time. Your suggestion seemed to me to load one line at a time.
02:05.34brlcadit's a full language, you can make it do whatever you want
02:05.46brlcadread the whole file if you like, ask line by line
02:06.08stustevMaybe I am thinking the command history is a file but it isn't. Is it the command history like the 'history' command in a terminal window.
02:07.15brlcadthere are various command histories in mged -- the one you see when you up/down arrow are always actions that have *happened* .. so if you want a command to show up there, it has to have run
02:07.31brlcadbut that doesn't prevent you from stepping through a transcript for the user
02:07.47stustevthat is what I am just understanding
02:10.48stustevIn APT we have what we call a source file. It is all the APT commands to create geometry if we need to and then move the cutter around the geometry. We load the whole file and then run through the file how we need to (sometimes - one line at a time). It doesn't sound as if brlcad is structured the same.
02:11.43brlcadsounds more like an interactive debugger
02:12.11brlcaddifferent tool, different purposes
02:12.11stustevexactly - that is how it functions
02:12.18brlcadyour point? :)
02:13.11stustevIt seems more intuitive and functional to me. That is probably because that is what I am used to.
02:15.36brlcadthat's a pretty grandiose statement to make on one simple interaction data point (regardless of it being true or false)
02:16.07brlcadthere are plenty of ways mged can be improved, working on usability is one of our top (long-term) priorities
02:16.38jonoredstustev: It doesn't seem like it's even impractical to do things that way in brlcad... I've mostly been editing files and running them. Haven't written up a line-by-line execute command, but that should only be a few lines to write...
02:17.03stustevmy process now - write the script, run the script, look at the error messages to decipher why it didn't work, edit the script, erase the database, repeat until I get no errors, check the model to see if it looks like what I expected, edit the script , erase the database, repeat until the model looks like what I want. :)
02:17.40stustevnot too bad just different than what I am used to
02:18.11brlcadstustev: i.e., you'd like an interactive script debugger
02:18.44jonoredI find myself wondering if this is actually a procedural-stuff-stored-in-database thing...
02:18.49brlcadit's not ground-shaking insightful, it's just not a feature we presently provide even if it would just take a few lines of code to implement
02:19.00stustevI had never thought of the APT process as debugging before but that is exactly what it is
02:19.02brlcadin fact you're the first person to (ever) suggest such a feature
02:19.27brlcad(for mged)
02:20.03brlcadit really would amount to just one routine, probably less than 50 lines tops including interactivity unless you slap a gui in there too
02:28.44Ralithwhat would be really neat would be a way to step forward and back (via a not-yet-present undo system) through a script to see what each line does (good for learning *and* debugging!) in an integrated editor, next to a nice pretty shaded view of the model
02:28.45yukonbobstustev: [source] is your friend... and if you're using [X]Emacs as your editor, inferior-tcl-mode is also your friend.
02:28.52Ralithof course, this has nothing to do with mged
02:29.14Ralithother than using mged commands
02:30.01stustevRalith: now you are talking
02:30.18RalithI don't think it would be very hard to do
02:30.20jonoredRalith: Defining a variant on 'in' that kills the solid first seems like it'd get closer to that...
02:30.22Ralitheven as a completely unique system
02:30.33Ralithjonored: I don't follow
02:30.53jonoredUnless I'm mistaken, that makes those commands repeat by themselves...
02:31.33Ralithstill lost
02:31.43jonoredor I might just be being a noob... checking.
02:33.25jonored...no, it doesn't seem like it. Make it so that if you go up in the history/external program and rerun the command it essentially updates the object. Or is it not based on name in the db?
02:34.00RalithI really have no idea what you're suggesing
02:34.11Ralithother than that it sounds like some kind of undo system to implement what I described
02:35.21stustevjonored: yes that would be the ticket - move up to rerun the command - the model is updated to the just run command - using the same entity name as before
02:35.37Raliththat's exactly what I said :P
02:35.44jonoredI've been finding myself (as I play with scripting) putting a "kill" statement immediately before every statement that creates something. Although that doesn't work for combinations easily, nevermind - they need to not get killed sometimes and killed other times.
02:36.32brlcadjonored: there's the more dangerous killtree for combinations
02:36.35stustevRalith: not exactly - the undo system I have seen will erase the entities when the undo command is issued
02:36.46Ralithjonored: there are all sorts of things that can't be undone with a kill, though
02:36.56Ralithstustev: what
02:37.03Raliththat sounds more like a delete button than an undo system
02:37.30stustevisn't undo - the same as delete?
02:37.59Ralithuh no?
02:38.03Ralithnot remotely
02:38.09Ralithwhere did you get that idea
02:38.10jonoredIt's close. It's more like a "Rerun and replace" button for this... or "edit definition".
02:38.20Ralithwhat if you want to undo moving something
02:38.24Ralithor undo changing its color
02:38.24jonored(to a delete)
02:39.02stustevif you undo the last command (whatever it is) isn't that like deleting the last command - not just entities
02:39.26Ralithhell, what if you want to undo deleting an object?
02:39.45Ralithdatabases don't store commands >.<
02:39.46stustevI see - you are thinking ahead of me
02:39.55stustev:)
02:39.55Raliththey store primitives and their relationships
02:40.07Ralithdeleting a command from your text editor has no bearing on anything
02:41.18jonoredI think this is really getting to the part where some people just really, really want to have procedurally-generated stuff that they can edit the definition for, rather than manually rerun the generating program...
02:41.35brlcadthere are plenty of commands that are not reversible or have no corresponding reverse action -- from a data storage perspective, 'undo' merely restores previous revisions (and that's all it needs to do really)
02:41.54Raliththank you :]
02:41.56brlcadregardless of what reverse action it might correspond to
02:42.01brlcadit doesn't need to know really
02:42.18Ralithso at the barest level
02:42.21brlcadif complete construction history is preserved (infinite undo)
02:42.27Ralithall we need is a binary diff of the db state every time an action is made, right?
02:42.32brlcadbasically
02:42.39Raliththat sounds very simple to implement
02:42.43brlcadtis
02:42.49brlcadthere is even a lib that already does it
02:42.56Ralith*blinkblink*
02:42.59brlcadpart of the geometry service design
02:43.00Raliththen why isn't mged hooked up?
02:43.35brlcadbecause that's active development, pretty big collaborative development effort with lots of simultaneous development threads
02:43.58Ralith...so the API's likely to change under your feet?
02:44.09brlcadthe new features like that one will probably only go into the new gui, especially complete versioning
02:44.32jonoredBut would that let you change something ten steps back without having to redo everything in between?
02:44.33Ralithunless mged is being completely abandoned, I'd think it would benefit from it
02:44.38brlcadthe API is still being *written*, just getting started actually -- just one piece of a bigger effort
02:44.56Ralithjonored: that might require a bit more than a binary diff :/
02:44.58brlcadthere's the libged refactoring effort, that alone is moving and restructuring nearly 100k lines of code
02:45.14Ralithyou'd have to have the logic to modify the future actions to acomodiate for any effect missing the past action would have
02:45.36Ralithah, so there's only a lib that does it in the sense of their being a project.
02:45.58brlcadno, there are libs that already do the diffing
02:46.22Ralithyou know what
02:46.28RalithI have no doubt that you're doing things the Right Way
02:46.32Ralithso I'm going to go get breakfast/lunch/dinner
02:47.02Ralith(my schedule is that messed up. I am accordingly hungry.)
02:47.51brlcadlike I said, there are several pieces to this puzzle -- the new geometry service is a fairly big effort that involves the new gui, a new OO geometry engine, a major mged/libged code refactoring, hooking into revisioning libraries, development of a service protocol, and binding that all together in phases
02:48.31Ralithoh, the undo bits depend on the geometry service as a whole which is itself incomplete?
02:48.35Ralith(or something like that)
02:48.37jonoredRalith: or store "how to get this shape" on the level of abstraction that the user types as well as on the level of straight CSG trees and matrices, and let it be edited and rerun easily.
02:49.24Ralithjonored: that would be pretty awesome, but it sounds pretty challenging to keep those in sync
02:50.39Ralithanyway.
02:50.40RalithHUNGRY.
02:50.43Ralith-> food
02:50.43stustevjonored: I do not want just another point and click CAD program. If I wanted that I would go with Solidworks or some such like. I like brlcad because it can be so flexible. If I need to work in the brlcad manner I can learn that. I started this by suggesting a few things I thought I would like to see. I have CADKEY, Solidworks, Catia, Unigraphics, ProE and VX. I know how to use VX and I don't want to learn any of the others. They are very
02:51.00brlcadthe "undo" functionality (which doesn't exist because the geometry service itself is far from complete) leverages a revision control layer (that already exists completed, but is a generic data versioning system)
02:51.16Ralithneat.
02:51.23Ralithshame it's not edible.
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02:53.40brlcadthe whole project is estimated around 6 staff years of effort in whole to achieve base production quality (not including new gui work), with around that many people presently contributing from 20% to 100% of their time
02:54.29brlcadstustev: irc has message limits, you were cut off ;)
02:54.41brlcadtry breaking at the sentance level ;)
02:54.49jonoredstustev: I'm not trying to say that the way brlcad works now is bad - but I was in here a few days ago asking about what I think is the same thing, and it's done somewhat, but isn't quite comfortable to me. I've been prodding at a line-by-line batch while we're talking because I'd use it too.
02:55.16stustevwill do
02:55.31brlcadseriously, line-by-line command parsing is really pretty simple to implement
02:56.05jonoredand I've been (distractedly; i have classes) prodding at stashing the TCL definitions of things in attributes and having a command to open it in an editor and rerun it when done... or just vim integration... stuff like that.
02:56.06brlcadwham, bam, could be done in less than an hour if you knew the scripting syntax
02:56.23brlcadjonored: neat
02:56.30stustevthe whole thing shows up on my screen - where were you cut off?
02:56.52brlcadThey are very
02:57.44stustevexpensive and continue to get more expensive. The continue to box you into the capability programmed into the point and click interface.
02:58.06jonoredis trying to find either stdin or a get-line-from-user in tcl.. five lines, I think, to go through it line-by-line, but with no backwards.
02:58.49jonoredis wrong, that breaks for multi-line commands.
02:59.48jonoredmisses (read).
03:00.33brlcadthinks he set a record this week for too many hours..
03:00.48stustevit is only Wednesday
03:01.19brlcadbut end of month
03:01.59stustevit is that
03:03.57stustevbbl
03:04.26brlcadputs "next? [y/n]"
03:04.38brlcadcatch {gets stdin answer}
03:05.14brlcadif {$answer == "y"} { ..process line.. rinse and repeat
03:05.42jonoredOut of curiosity, how much of the graphical display stuff will libged be able to do? Would I be able to tell it to use a window like mged does now, or does the program using it need to do that?
03:05.58brlcadmaybe write a "prompt user" command (I sent an example to one of the mailing lists many months back)
03:06.26brlcad"tell it to use a window like mged does now"?  no entiendo
03:06.45brlcadlibged has nothing to do with gui -- it's a geometry editing library
03:07.28brlcadit's moving a ton of editing, querying, analysis, and other command functionality (i.e. pretty much *all* commands in mged) into a library so that it can be reused
03:07.41brlcadand cleaned up at the same time
03:07.54brlcadrefactoring is giving us the chance to remove some of the cobwebs
03:08.23brlcadperforms his "take 2" homeward bounding
03:11.21yukonbobfinishes reading scrollbck
03:11.23yukonbob*back
03:15.48jonored*Nod*. I'm asking if libdm is in libged, aren't I. I should look at these things before asking and confusing people...
03:32.09starseekerwishes he knew enough to contribute something useful to the Geometry Engine email... his only suggestion might be that a brief summary of the potential pros/cons of the various approaches available might be educational, although orthogonal to the purpose of the email...
03:39.17brlcadstarseeker: you are contributing something *vital*
03:40.00brlcadfeature requests, bug fixes, releases .. those *have* to keep happening, so if you're not doing them then that just falls back on others (me!)
03:40.13brlcadjonored: libdm is definitely not in libged
03:40.56brlcadlibged does provide generic display lists though .. which libdm uses .. which opengl can use .. and others because they're .. generic ;)
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08:44.30brlcadhrm
08:44.35brlcaddecides to call it a day
08:48.44d_rossbergbrlcad: who is davidloman?
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09:20.24mafmhi
09:41.35CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32155 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcVariable.cpp pcVariable.h): Adding type information to Variable classes so as to avoid RTTI during construction/destrcution
09:43.08CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32156 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcPCSet.cpp pcPCSet.h): addVariable() and addConstraint() functions for the operation of PCSet object: argument list to be changed to non pointer type
10:51.53CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32157 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c: Added light and zclip commands to ged_obj.
10:54.22CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32158 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: some modifications to be consistent with Makefile.am
11:07.44d_rossbergmafm: is rt^3 for gui development only or is it a more general C++ developmend sandbox?
11:12.09mafmd_rossberg: I don't know, it was created before me
11:12.25mafmSean suggested me to put my new interface there
11:12.51mafmAFAIK it was not really used, the rest of code around are placeholders/sketches
11:13.28mafmand it was devised as a place to put things like 3D interfaces, thus the name rt^3
11:16.53d_rossbergsame to me: Sean suggested me to put my C++ interface there
11:17.29d_rossbergso don't be surprised
11:17.55mafmall right
11:18.07mafmit was you who was creating directories yesterday?
11:18.34d_rossbergno, it was David Loman
11:19.27d_rossberghe works probable at the ARL, but i don't know his intention in creating these directories
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11:28.04mafmOK
11:28.20mafmso well, at the moment I've only put stuff in src/other, src/g3d and data/g3d
11:28.52mafmI don't know much about the rest
11:29.48mafmif we're going to use same code, like patterns and so on, we could move our code to libUtility or similar dirs
11:36.16CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32159 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c: Removed a bit of temporary/test code.
11:39.34CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32160 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/intaval/ (Makefile.am tgf2g.dsp):
11:39.34CIA-23BRL-CAD: removed MSVS 6.0 project file
11:39.34CIA-23BRL-CAD: BRL-CAD doesn't support this VS version any more
11:45.57CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32161 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/intaval/ (8 files): made the copyright and license notice compatible with the rest of BRL-CAD
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13:23.48starseekerbrlcad:  Thank you :-).  I was referring more to the issues you had asked for comment on in the email "BRL-CAD C++ Geometry Engine" - things like run-time typing and single object hierarchies are a bit beyond my expertice level as yet ;-)
13:25.03brlcadnods
13:25.50brlcadah, missed daniel
13:30.01pooliobrlcad: I'm leaving now :)
13:53.34starseekerthere we go, much better:  http://brlcad.org/wiki/ARL_Technical_Reports
13:54.00starseekerneeds to docbook those suckers once 7.12.6 is out...
13:54.44brlcadthe OLD subdir should get merged in
13:55.08brlcadit was just a place to put the previous site mirror
14:03.03starseekerI know
14:03.12starseekerbut at least there is SOME active link now
14:03.30starseekermerging it in will take longer, especially if we docbook/wikify it
14:04.11starseekerI could pull it out and make a "reports" directory to hold them in the main site, if that's preferable
14:05.51starseekerjust let me know - if you don't want any link until they're ready I can revert it, too
14:07.13brlcadnah, it's better
14:07.26brlcadjust saing it's not where it should be
14:11.26CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32162 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiWidgetRotation.cxx GuiWidgetRotation.h): Adding custom Widget based in RBGui::Widget intending to represent and control rotations
14:15.43CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32163 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiCamera.cxx GuiCamera.h): Adding window to control camera and display different properties
14:37.15CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32164 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiBaseWindow.cxx GuiWindowManager.cxx): Whitespace and debug logging messages
14:38.25CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32165 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Application.cxx Application.h): Adding new window and widget, and commenting out test code
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15:00.06brlcadmafm: it is a general c++ development sandbox if the question comes up again ;)
15:01.42mafm:|
15:01.55mafmso people can deposit cat droppings in there... not good!
15:15.03mafmnice, I try to draw lines and I got back characters being rendered
15:16.25brlcadcool
15:16.34brlcadso maybe you should draw characters, see if you get lines
15:25.45mafmtext leads to text
15:32.19mafmhuh, that's strange
15:32.55mafmit seems that the font manager decodes something in every widget and thus the characters get rendered
16:34.53brlcadmafm: how are you rendering fonts? (what font manager? one in ogre?)
16:35.32brlcadnotes he also works with ftgl .. so would be highly inclined to use that where we need ofnt rendering -- it's good stuff
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16:44.47mafmbrlcad: freetype, I think
16:46.50brlcadeh, that might be what's under the hood, sure
16:46.57brlcadbut what are you interfacing through?
16:47.03brlcadsomething ogre provides?
16:48.18mafmRBGui
16:48.42mafmI don't know if in turn in uses some OGRE thing -- might be
16:50.58mafm#include <ft2build.h>
16:50.59mafm#include FT_FREETYPE_H
16:51.09mafm(in RBGui::FontManager.cpp)
16:51.15mafmso they use that directly, I guess
16:59.00starseekerbrlcad:  Know anything about Growl for Mac OSX?
16:59.10starseekerhttp://growl.info
17:00.11mafmI have to go now
17:00.13mafmtake care :)
17:02.49brlcadstarseeker: I do now
17:10.31starseekerheh - those scripts that get subversion to use FileMerge seem to want to use it
17:11.05starseekerGrowls in frustration
17:15.46brlcadreally? that's odd
17:15.52brlcadchange the scripts
17:21.17starseekerthey'll work without it, but there seems to be some feature it provides that they benefit from
17:21.37starseekermaybe you don't have to manually quit FileMerge if you have it around
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18:16.40CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r32166 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c: don't need to check the angle for hits on start/end planes, replaced with a check for rev->ang > M_PI
18:40.27CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32167 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/current_successful_compile_rev.txt: upload notes on progressive compile issues identified so far
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20:33.00RalithWhat sort of OS do most devs here run on?
20:33.14pacman87i run slackware
20:33.35Ralithlinuxes, then?
20:33.36pacman87occasionally boot winXP on weekends
20:33.42pacman87but not for dev work
20:49.48PrezKennedyvista!
20:50.09PrezKennedyexcept im not a dev... just an innocent bystander
20:50.23pacman87if you run vista, you're not innocent...
20:52.46PrezKennedyat least im not fingering people and mounting drives like you sickos :P
20:53.23pacman87hey, i never said we were innocent either
20:53.37Ralithat least we're experienced :>
20:55.20PrezKennedy"hey baby, i know how to mount a drive" ;)
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21:05.57CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32168 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcConstraint.cpp pcConstraint.h): forward declaration of PCSet for usage of PCSet methods
21:07.45CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32169 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcVariable.cpp: correcting inherited protected variable access name
21:07.51*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5B14DFE6.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:11.13CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32170 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcPCSet.cpp pcPCSet.h solver_test.cpp): Variable addition methods for the PCSet object
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22:45.25CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32171 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (69 files in 35 dirs): OK, take a step back. Reverting to 32083.
22:54.13CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32172 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/rt/rt_simple.c: Opps, add rt_simple back in to get to 32083 state.
23:02.27brlcadRalith: Mac, BSD, and Linux for most of the devs
23:03.16starseekerkeeps waiting for someone to port BRL-CAD to HaikuOS ;-)
23:03.37brlcadthat would be fun
23:03.43Ralithso an acceptable form of binary release for g3d would be a binary tarball for extraction into an installation root?
23:04.34brlcadah, for g3d, sure -- it can be pretty much anything
23:05.04brlcadit's more just getting it into some dev users hands for easy testing, getting a feedback loop started
23:05.22brlcadthere the OS doesn't matter, could pretty much pick anything
23:05.25starseekerneeds to check if it's still doing the screwed up font thing on his Gentoo box...
23:06.34Ralithfinds the idea of a binary release for devs to be somewhat odd
23:08.01brlcadit's not just for devs -- its for anyone really
23:08.28starseekerDoes it still need all the libs installed as root?
23:08.37starseekeror did it ever, for that matter?
23:09.00CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32173 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/TODO: list of minor tasks/ plan in libpc
23:17.38CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32174 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (4 files in 3 dirs):
23:17.38CIA-23BRL-CAD: Merge in changes to get the tree back into a working state, circa 32083 as far
23:17.38CIA-23BRL-CAD: as merging in of trunk changes. Testing indicates there be dragons in the 32085
23:17.38CIA-23BRL-CAD: and 32086 changes, so prepare working base and re-attempt the subsequent merges
23:17.38CIA-23BRL-CAD: from trunk from there.
23:18.11brlcadif he's making a binary release, he has the opportunity to sort that out
23:18.20starseekerah.
23:19.14starseekergoes to get dinner before attempting to get over the next merge barrior
23:23.53RalithI don't know many libs that do need to be installed as root
23:30.15brlcadthink he meant that need to be installed beforehand/separately
23:32.06brlcadin which case the installer for the dependency (e.g. on Mac) might be set up to require perms to go where the installer wants to put it
23:33.02brlcadthere's never been a release of it yet, so it's a mostly moot point though -- he could make the whole thing one big stand-alone static binary if he wanted
23:40.23CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32175 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcParser.cpp pcVariable.cpp): cleanup / debug removal
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23:42.59CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32176 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcVariable.h: intersectInterval modified to take into account empty Domain; display function modified to show Variable type
23:45.44CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32177 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcPCSet.cpp pcPCSet.h solver_test.cpp): modification to addVariable() and pushVar() functions of PCSet. small *hack* in pushVar() since default specialized constructors are not being used
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080801

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080801

00:19.43yukonbobhello, cadheads
00:22.07Ralithhello, tundrahead
00:24.14yukonbob:)
00:40.07CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32178 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (5 files in 3 dirs): re-merge r31669 - fast4-g cleanup
00:40.48starseekerarrgh -
00:43.25CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32179 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (COPYING INSTALL misc/enigma/COPYING misc/enigma/INSTALL): ack, how'd that happen? put trunk's COPYING and INSTALL files back
00:51.27starseekercan't figure out how those COPY and INSTALL files got switched
00:51.31starseekergrrrr
00:55.15starseekeris a bit freaked out
01:02.34pooliobrlcad: tgc almost works, it's flipped about the z-axis...
01:35.49CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32180 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (9 files in 6 dirs): re-merge up to r31701, previously in this branch 32087
01:38.00starseekerthinks he may be finally getting the hang of this merge thing
01:38.05starseeker++FileMerge~
01:43.43``Erikeffin' fate bitch pizz0wned one of my astros and it'll take 3 hours to get a liberation fleet there *sigh*
01:44.30starseekerisn't sure if ``Erik is playing a game or learning a new language
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01:59.22CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32181 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (3 files in 3 dirs): re-merge up to r31744 where the changes weren't related to new work, including extensive changes to pipe.c , previously in this branch 32092
02:00.36brlcadstarseeker: that can happen during an automatic regeneration during make
02:01.11brlcadif you update/merge configure.ac and Makefile.am updates, and don't run autogen.sh -- it will try automatically
02:01.45brlcadand depending on the exact ordering of things, it can end up blowing away what you have and sticking defaults
02:02.05brlcadI'd bitched about it (informally) to the gnu guys in the past but they didn't seem to really care
02:02.35brlcadsince it's obscure and it's the content they think should be in every one's copy of those files anyways
02:02.41starseekerah
02:02.56brlcadpoolio: awesome!
02:03.04starseekergrumbles in the direction of the GNU guys, who sure won't listen to him if they don't listen to brlcad
02:03.17brlcadstarseeker: go for it
02:03.37brlcadit was several years ago, I'm sure it's just a matter of catching the right guy(s) at the right time
02:03.54brlcadone of them was zealotry trolling
02:03.55stustevgood evening gentlemen
02:04.02brlcadwith which I sometimes have very little patience
02:04.11brlcadhowdy starseeker
02:04.14stustevquestion - how do I use TRA?
02:04.53starseekerheh - howdy stustev
02:05.11starseekerhands brlcad some coffee
02:05.14stustevI can't seem to get it to affect anything
02:07.10stustevdo I describe geometry after I issue tra xxx yyy zzz? I am trying to mirror and move an object
02:09.21brlcadstustev: you have to be in an edit mode first
02:09.44brlcadeither solid/primitive edit or object/matrix edit mode
02:09.45stustevI can't issue this in the command window?
02:10.04brlcadsure, sed primitive ; tra 100 0 0
02:10.11brlcadaccept
02:10.13brlcadreject
02:10.19stustevthis is for editing one object at a time?
02:10.29brlcadwhat are you trying to do?
02:10.41brlcadthat would apply an edit to a specific primitive
02:10.42stustevI have a region.
02:10.55brlcadsed == solid edit mode == for editing primitives individually
02:10.58stustevI want to mirror the region and translate it.
02:11.06brlcadoed is for editing groups
02:11.39stustevtrying
02:11.41brlcadso mirror; oed; tra
02:12.26brlcadmirror old new ; oed / new/path/to/primitive ; tra x y z ; accept
02:12.59brlcadthere is a great tutorial on oed specifically on the website under documentation
02:15.23stustevI will try to tutorial - thanks
02:15.30stustevs/to/the
02:18.31brlcadstustev: starseeker wrote it so if you have any questions -- he's the man
02:18.55brlcadit describes the command pretty well and in detail, including its limitations
02:19.07brlcadas well as it's power/flexibility
02:19.16starseekerfeedback welcome :-)
02:20.03starseekerdoes need to add a section in there about moving objects used multiple times in a combination by blasting in just that component and working on it alone...
02:23.25brlcadmore useful would be implementing "oed all.g" ;)
02:23.37starseekerhehe
02:23.52starseekershould add that to the TODO
02:24.05brlcador even 'ed object'
02:24.21starseekerwith type identification that could work
02:24.44brlcadthere's no useful reason for there to be two
02:24.50brlcadit was just a technical artifact
02:24.53starseekerabsolutely :-)
02:24.56brlcadjust like rhs
02:25.36starseekerwould very much like to do that, but then he'd have to redo all the docs for it again :-P
02:25.41brlcadand I really hate to say it, but 'e' should probably enter edit mode
02:26.11starseekerwouldn't that cause a lot of trouble with our old timers?
02:26.13brlcadthe one-letter commands all need reviewed
02:26.18brlcadyeah it would
02:26.22brlcadso not likely going to happen
02:26.28brlcadbut it should"
02:26.40brlcade means edit, but you don't actually get to edit
02:27.03brlcads/means/meant/
02:27.25brlcadrather "display for editing" .. but that's often also just viewing
02:27.31starseekermaybe we can have "command profiles" the way g3d has blender and MGED modes?
02:27.35brlcadhence draw == e
02:27.48brlcadyeah, command sets
02:28.08brlcadand "standard aliases"
02:28.24brlcadi.e. treat it like a full shell
02:28.29brlcadmake it BE a full shell
02:28.46starseekerthat would rock
02:28.53brlcadthen e would just be an alias to the draw command in the mged-compatibility command profile
02:29.50starseekerhehe - e, ed, sed and oed would all end up leading to the same command by default
02:30.58starseekermaybe have the sed and oed versions check to make sure what they're editing, to preserve behavior
02:31.10starseekeror the sed one anyway
02:32.35brlcadpossibly, though the modal edit modes need to go eventually too
02:33.34brlcador combine it into a new non-modal command space
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02:34.06brlcadso things like "tra object 100 0 0" would work, or  "object tra 100 0 0"
02:34.56starseekerwould like to have the option to go modal or non-modal - modality can be tremendously productive if you want to take the time to learn it (vim)
02:35.12starseekerbut the default should be non-modal
02:36.31brlcadin our case, though -- there are still N lines of commands
02:36.50brlcadso the modality really just introduces errors
02:37.43brlcadall it saves you us is typing object names per command as there is a modal "loaded" set (e'd objects)
02:39.08CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32182 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (18 files in 7 dirs): re-merge up to r31822, previously in this branch 32099
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03:49.06starseekerbrlcad: sorry, connection decided to quit
03:49.31starseekertrue, modality does mainly save typing names
03:50.36brlcadcould get a similar effect with named edit sets, akin to registers
03:51.14brlcadregister 1 obj1 obj2 obj3
03:51.18brlcadtra 1 100 0 0
03:51.47starseekerhmm - essentially create temporary groups for the purposes of command application
03:51.49brlcadfor what might otherwise be three tra lines for each obj
03:51.54starseekernot bad
03:51.55*** part/#brlcad stustev (n=stustev@ip72-205-246-167.ks.ks.cox.net)
03:52.35starseekersees potential for confusion though - "does registering objects create combinations? how is a combination different from a register?"
03:52.54brlcadeven with just one object, it eliminates the modality and minimizes it to two characters (for at least 0-9 sets)
03:53.04brlcadso regsiter is a bad word
03:53.23brlcadsort of like a named 'e' set
03:53.35starseeker"edit sets"
03:54.17starseekereditset obj1.s obj2.r obj3.c
03:54.24starseekereditset obj1.s obj2.r obj3.c obj1
03:54.43starseekermaybe enforce that an edit set name does not map to any database object name
03:54.57brlcadsomething, but the power would be in using "registers", i.e. some simple int id
03:55.04starseekerright
03:55.25brlcadotherwise if you allow arbitrary names, it is confusing/overlapping with groups
03:55.30starseekertrue
03:56.09brlcadthough .. I can see a case, maybe it's just a matter of defaults
03:56.27starseekerwould that be the command line equalivent to graphically selecting several objects and then doing something with them?
03:56.42brlcadexactly
03:56.46starseekercool
03:57.05starseekercould tie into the exact same functionality we will eventually use to do that graphically
03:57.20brlcadyep, that'd be the intent too I'd hope
03:57.47brlcadI'd like *all* gui actions to actually go through the scripting layer unless there's some unresolvable performance problem
03:58.05brlcadat least, end state actions
03:58.37starseekermaybe we could have a default of a "hidden" name if none is supplied, and then then commands without arguments supplied could default to that
03:58.48starseekereg editset obj1.s obj2.s obj3.s
03:58.52starseekertra 100 0 0
03:59.01starseekerunselect
03:59.03starseekeror some such
03:59.36brlcadso, for example, rotating an object around and dragging it up/down might be thousands of gui events, but they'd amount to one command-line transaction of "apply this matrix" when you go to a different tool/action
03:59.55starseekercool :-)
04:00.19brlcad"select"
04:00.27brlcadselect obj1 obj2 obj3
04:00.39brlcadreturns an int id for that set
04:01.46brlcadso you could "tra [select obj1 obj2] 0 0 100"  or "select -id 5 obj1 obj2" .. "tra 5 0 0 100" or something similar
04:04.19starseekercool
04:04.21brlcador ftw, the posix shell interface: tra `select obj1 obj2` 0 0 100
04:05.23starseekershould we optionally avoid an explicit int return, to conceptually match the GUI case?  I.e. "just do this on what I just selected, I don't want to care what # it is"
04:05.48starseekerspecify an int return if we want the selection to persist beyond the next  select command
04:06.42brlcadit still matches the gui with an int -- the gui is just hiding data keeping track of the int for you, akin to setting it to a var
04:06.57brlcadset id [select obj1 obj2] ; tra $id 0 0 100
04:07.37brlcadthe idea being that the gui would actually do exactly that or some similar technique
04:07.43brlcadso you could replicate what the gui is doing exactly
04:07.52starseekersure
04:07.54brlcadand have a transaction list regardless of which you use
04:08.35brlcadwould love to hit the "play" button on a full vehicle being constructed .. with full revision history as it was put together
04:08.40starseekerjust wants to hide the selection of the int unless explicitly specified - under the hood all would do the same thing
04:08.48starseekerthat would ROCK :-)
04:09.19brlcadrockage on so many levels
04:09.31Raliththen export it to a physics engine and testdrive it :>
04:09.34brlcadthat'd probably be worth a paper somewhere
04:13.46starseekerdoesn't want any of his revision histories played back just yet
04:13.56starseeker:-P
04:14.50Ralithhehe
04:15.31starseekersteady cam it ain't
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04:25.11CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32183 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (50 files in 30 dirs): re-merge up to r32062, r32120 previously - this should incorporate most of the relevant trunk changes up until that point, and seems to have completed a build on OSX - need a clean checkout to be certain.
04:25.20starseekerbrlcad:  Can I grab the new mged initialization for 7.12.6?
04:51.57starseekerand the new kill stuff?
04:52.11brlcadinitilzation?
04:52.34brlcadI don't think you can merge killrefs without libged
04:52.40starseekermrf
04:52.52brlcadooh, new mged init -- yeah, that should merge easy
04:52.54starseekeryour new mged mods that let mged start through menus/icons
04:52.57starseekercool :-)
04:53.16starseekerthat'll be a nice feature to have in the stable release
04:54.10starseekerlooks at killrefs quick...
04:56.30starseekeris sorely tempted to try, but it looks like you're probably right
04:56.54brlcadthere's always next month
04:57.10starseekerwill libged be ready by then?
04:57.19starseekerWOOOOO HOOOOOOOO
04:57.23brlcadgotta draw the line somewhere else it can drag on indefintiely
04:57.34brlcadiff bob keeps up his pace, possibly
04:57.44starseekergets mged to start up built from the HEAD of pre-7-12-6
04:58.01brlcadmaybe two months -- but it should be stabilizable within a couple weeks regardless of libged being finished
04:58.20brlcadif anything, can just start throwing the bugs at bob as they're found until he's done, or help him debug
04:58.57starseekertrue
04:59.17starseekerdoes happy dance that he can now build and install with almost all the changes merged in
04:59.45Ralithyay!
05:00.01starseekerThat was a big first step on the road to a release
05:00.14Ralithif it needs testing on other platforms, I'm happy to give it a build on FreeBSD
05:00.36starseekerplease - check out branches/pre-7-12-6 to give it a whirl
05:02.06starseekerwould appreciate
05:03.05Ralithuh
05:03.13RalithI can't seem to work out how that translates to a svn checkout url :/
05:03.18starseekerone sec...
05:03.46starseekersvn co https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6
05:03.59Ralithahh, double brlcad.
05:04.42brlcadstarseeker: ran make benchmark and make test ?
05:05.09brlcadhave to scan the test output, it'll keep going even if it fails
05:05.26brlcadalso be sure to do a make distcheck .. that will really show where things are pooched
05:06.50starseekernot yet
05:07.04starseekerjust got done getting basics working :-)
05:08.29brlcadthen checking both default build and --enable-all builds ;)
05:09.07starseeker:-)
05:09.25starseekersaw the release section in the HACKING file - he'll step through it
05:09.39brlcadthen doing all those same steps for all platforms ;)
05:09.48starseekerthis is just the first time I've had any hope at all of working ;-)
05:10.01starseekerwill make Bob do the Windows binary :-P
05:10.44Ralithyawns and watchs svn scroll
05:10.57starseekerdreads the drive home
05:11.08brlcadjust sent a long e-mail to the sf.net vice pres. after today's irc meeting
05:11.20brlcadtalking about performance .. albeit web performance
05:11.38starseekersubversion you mean?
05:11.49brlcadnope, project sites
05:11.56starseekerah
05:11.57brlcadsubversion is just migration pains
05:13.19brlcadcrap, I think I broke mged regressibility on trunk
05:13.30starseekerhow so?
05:13.55brlcadthe mged init changes I think, doing something odd with the scripts
05:14.31starseekerwill hold off for the moment then (nuts)
05:14.34brlcadsome complete, some are failing
05:14.55starseekers ees it too
05:15.30brlcadnot good, really gotta stabilize trunk
05:15.37brlcadthis is the most instable it's been in years
05:15.46brlcader, unstable
05:15.52brlcaduncredible
05:16.10Ralithweb performance?
05:16.17Ralithit's that bad?
05:16.43brlcadRalith: yes, the fact that if you go to http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad/
05:16.55brlcaduncached, that results in approx 72 requests
05:17.07brlcad23 of which are for advertisement data
05:17.29brlcadthose 23 dominate more than 50% of the data
05:18.02Raliththat is a bit annoying, but is it actually a problem?
05:18.17starseekeradblock plus ftw
05:18.58brlcadabout 230KB to load the page from scratch for starters .. of which abou 130KB is ad, 100KB for *everything* else
05:19.15starseekeryeesh
05:19.15Ralith22:18:17 < starseeker> adblock plus ftw
05:19.17Ralithqft
05:19.24starseekerqft?
05:19.27Ralithquoted for truth
05:19.33starseekerheh
05:19.51brlcadprefers /etc/hosts
05:20.04Ralith/etc/hosts doesn't auto-update
05:20.06brlcadeasier to manage, less overhead, browser agnostic
05:20.24Ralithadblock these days has other people blocking stuff for you
05:20.28Ralithwhich works great in practice
05:20.46Ralithdon't remember the last time I saw an obtrusive ad
05:21.15starseekerisn't too picky about sf adds given how useful they are, but that's just him
05:21.23brlcadI don't mind some ads that are actually on-topic, low overhead, easy to ignore if I want to, etc
05:21.33starseekerah
05:21.46starseekeredcolor is an expected unable to test in the mged regress?
05:21.46brlcade.g. /.'s ads are often just fine
05:22.02brlcadstarseeker: yeah for now
05:22.06starseekerk
05:22.07RalithI like how /. serves microsoft ads, though
05:22.12starseekermake test marchs on
05:22.13Ralithit's funny when you see one on a ms-bashing article
05:22.22brlcadyep
05:22.40Ralithback to the point, though, sf.net has never been what I'd call terribly slow
05:23.03Ralithand they're providing a lot of service for a lot of people for no direct profit
05:23.09starseekerdepends on the internet connection
05:23.20Ralithoh hey, my checkout finished!
05:23.24starseeker:-)
05:23.47Ralith(kind of ironic, in the context of my argument that sf has decent speeds)
05:24.04starseekerbrlcad:  0 off by many is expected?
05:24.17starseekersolids.rt.pix 0 off by many
05:24.51starseekerif so, make test succeeded
05:25.06starseekermakes a note to look at the regression system's reporting
05:25.27starseekerwants a wtf just happened summary like the configure end of things has
05:27.30starseekerwhat a great slashdot headline:  The War Against Virtual Beer Pong
05:28.37starseekerwas sure he was losing it
05:28.53Ralithsets the compile going
05:29.15brlcadRalith: don't get me wrong, I'm a huge sf.net supporter -- using them for nearly a decade in some fashion now
05:29.37brlcadthat's why they even care to hear my complaint
05:29.46brlcadi think they do a lot of great even with the ads
05:30.14brlcadit's just excessive that there is actually more ad data than real content (and that a page would take 72 requests, 72 potential latency points) to load
05:30.18Ralithstarseeker: hehe
05:30.31starseekerconfesses to wondering if ping started the war against pong
05:30.46Ralithit is very frustrating when an ad site is down or something and that ruins a page's load time
05:30.52brlcadstarseeker: yes, 0 off is good
05:30.58starseekersweet
05:31.04starseekeris running the benchmark now
05:31.10Ralithbut it's hard to serve ads on a site like sf.net without having lots of data-wise disproportionality
05:31.13CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32184 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcConstraint.cpp pcConstraint.h): Adding a display() method to the constraint object, modification of constructor to expect va_list * instead of (...)
05:31.22Ralithmost project relevent data is text, while the ads are generally images or even flash
05:31.28Ralith(dunno if sf.net does flash ads)
05:31.29brlcadand shaders is known to fail with 3 off by 1 on one of the 64bit platforms so you know .. but shouldn't any where else
05:31.43brlcader, 3 off by many
05:31.45Ralithwhat's that a measurement off?
05:31.47Ralither
05:31.48Ralithof?
05:31.53starseekerhow does sf.net look in text mode links?
05:32.04Ralithtesting in w3m
05:32.15Ralitha few layout issues, but generally pretty clean
05:32.52brlcadif you want to speed up benchmarking for testing (since it really only needs to run each frame once for testing purposes, set the TIMEOUT environment variable to 1
05:33.06CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32185 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcPCSet.cpp pcPCSet.h solver_test.cpp): addConstraint method of PCSet elaborated , modifications to the PCSet::display() method
05:33.14brlcader, sorry, TIMEFRAME!
05:33.28starseeker:-)
05:33.42starseekerwill let it run, it's probably about halfway already
05:33.51brlcade.g. TIMEFRAME=0 make benchmark
05:34.00brlcador export TIMEFRAME=0, etc
05:34.11starseekerholy cow, NASA's Phoenix probe found water in a sample on Mars
05:34.12brlcadotherwise it'll take 10 minutes every time
05:35.05brlcadRalith: it's a high-level integration test of the ray tracer
05:35.33brlcadwhich in turn ends up testing nearly everything in several libraries
05:36.04starseekerbrlcad:  cool, thanks! :-)  that will help quite a lot
05:36.27brlcadit compares the ray-trace result against a known good result, if any pixel value in the resulting image is ever different -- it will detect and report
05:36.48Ralithstarseeker: actually confirmed, not just "oh hey that looks shiny and waterlike"?
05:36.58starseekerRalith:  apparently
05:37.06brlcad"off by 1" errors and "off by many" errors indicate the RGB for a given pixel is slightly (or not so slightly) different
05:37.15Ralithsounds pretty rigorous.
05:37.45starseekerpixcmp pixels:   262070 matching,       74 off by 1,        0 off by many
05:37.47brlcadit is, it'll detect subtle floating point unit issues, compiler optimization bugs, etc
05:37.58brlcadstarseeker: for benchmarking, off by 1's are fine
05:38.21starseekerk
05:38.24brlcadthose are floating point differences within tolerance
05:38.45starseekernow why isn't there a sphflake.pix file for comparison??
05:38.46brlcad234 54 63 vs 233 54 63
05:38.56brlcadthere is
05:39.39brlcadcrew:~/brlcad sean$ ls -la pix/sphflake.pix
05:39.40brlcad-rw-r--r--   1 sean  sean  786432 May 10 10:36 pix/sphflake.pix
05:39.44starseekerI must have lost it somehow...
05:40.24brlcadthat's not good .. it's in svn .. or should be
05:42.49brlcadnow that we have a proper image gallery in place, should get rid of the unnecessary pix files from svn
05:43.01brlcadmove them into the gallery at some point
05:43.09brlcadespecially .. toilet.pix
05:43.29starseekeris afraid to ask
05:43.40brlcadcheck it out..
05:44.18Ralithbuild went fine
05:44.21Ralithrunning test suite
05:45.17starseekerthinks a student got bored...
05:45.24brlcadstarseeker: pix-fb -h pix/toilet.pix
05:45.33starseekeroh, me has it up :-)
05:45.40brlcadthat was chris johnson
05:45.43*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@c-71-197-213-172.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
05:46.02Ralithugh
05:46.19Ralithmake test popped up the mged gui while I was watching a movie fullscreen
05:46.25Ralithwhich made X freak out and die
05:46.28brlcadi mean neat n all, nice rounded edges, but .. heh
05:46.31starseekeruh oh
05:46.42Ralith>:|
05:46.43brlcadyikes
05:47.03brlcadstarseeker: is that with the mged init code?
05:48.00starseekerno, it's the new mged regress test
05:48.09*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@c-71-197-213-172.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
05:48.11starseekerI saw an mged window flash by on my screen too
05:48.16Ralithok
05:48.25Ralithlooks like we have a problem.
05:48.38starseekerwhat's that?
05:48.40Ralithmplayer had nothing to do with that crash; it just happened again :|
05:48.47starseekeruh...
05:48.58Ralithmight that have to do with an erroneously set BRLCAD_ROOT?
05:49.13Ralithno, wait, I unset that the first time around
05:49.21Ralithso yeah, mged seems to be killing my X on startup
05:49.33starseekerthat's not good
05:49.36RalithXorg log:
05:49.37RalithFatal server error:
05:49.37RalithCaught signal 11.  Server aborting
05:49.37starseekerhow did you build?
05:49.49Ralithno options to configure other than --prefix
05:49.51starseekerwait, you mean it's STILL not starting up
05:49.53brlcadstarseeker: ah, one of the commands is basically "open the gui" so that seems right
05:50.01Ralithno, X starts up again fine :P
05:50.04brlcadand it intentially tests all commands (except edcolor)
05:50.13Raliththat's the log from when it died
05:50.25brlcadRalith: sounds like an X11 bug even if we're provoking it
05:50.31Ralithkk
05:50.35brlcadi suspect it's the opengl driver killing X
05:50.37Ralithwill test running mged by hand
05:50.42RalithI'm using nvidia's proprietary driver
05:50.43starseekerare you getting a system Tcl/Tk?
05:50.44Ralithso that could be at fault
05:50.49brlcadand mged using opengl making it go wah
05:50.50Ralithno, it's using built in tcl/tk
05:50.58starseekerhmm
05:51.02brlcadyou built it yourself?
05:51.07pacman87i'm running nvidia prop too
05:51.11Ralithbuilt which?
05:51.23brlcadthat version of mged
05:51.26Ralithpacman87: yeah, but weird driver issues are likely to be hard to reproduce
05:51.28pacman87i had some trouble with mged taking 100% cpu
05:51.32Ralithbrlcad: yeah, I just built starseeker's pre
05:51.33brlcadi suppose if you're running make test, then yes you are..
05:51.52Ralithtesting mged now
05:51.58Ralith...
05:52.01brlcadtest with ./configure --enable-all --without-opengl
05:52.19Ralithsec
05:52.21brlcadmged by itself should fail similarly
05:52.33brlcadcould try mged -c
05:52.34Ralithwe'll find out as soon as install finishes
05:52.55brlcadthen select X or ogl for the dm
05:53.06Ralithmy instinct is that the failure won't happen on a standard startup
05:53.10brlcadX should work, ogl should fail I bet
05:53.24Ralithhm
05:53.29Ralithis there a way to run a nested X session?
05:53.53Ralithah well, here goes nothing.
05:54.03brlcadheh
05:54.10pacman87i guess that didnt work
05:54.14starseekerow
05:54.18starseekerfeels bad
05:54.19brlcadlooks like it worked to me!
05:54.35*** join/#brlcad saltan (n=lievensa@d51530284.access.telenet.be)
05:54.39pacman87for which defination of 'work'?
05:54.40*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@c-71-197-213-172.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
05:54.43brlcadhehe
05:54.45Ralithwell
05:54.49Ralithyou don't need me to tell you how that went
05:54.59Ralithhow do I launch it with ogl disabled?
05:55.00starseekerwhat about rtwizard?
05:55.08pacman87was that mged or mged -c?
05:55.09brlcadRalith: mged -c
05:55.32Ralither, wasn't there some way to set the renderer to something non-opengl?
05:55.34brlcadselect X or nu
05:55.40Ralithoh
05:55.42Ralithright
05:55.50RalithX works fine
05:55.55Ralithnu too
05:56.00Ralithtesting rtwizard
05:56.08brlcadin nu, try "attach ogl"
05:56.30brlcador just try ogl
05:56.37brlcadfrom the prompt
05:56.39Ralith% bin/rtwizard
05:56.40RalithItcl_Init ERROR:
05:56.40Ralithalready installed: [incr Tcl]
05:56.40RalithERROR: Application initialization failed
05:56.41RalithError in startup script: couldn't load file "./lib/itk3.4/libitk3.4.a": Cannot open "./lib/itk3.4/libitk3.4.a"
05:56.46Ralithwhen launching rtwizard
05:56.53Ralithnote that I've installed in a nonstandard location
05:57.04Raliththe app does open, but with a featureless square window
05:57.08Ralith~square
05:57.15brlcadthat's a different issue, rtwizard is a pita
05:57.18Ralithkk
05:57.31Ralithtesting 'ogl' on mged -c prompt
05:57.45Ralithinvalid command name "ogl"
05:57.46Ralith:P
05:57.53Ralithattaching instead.
05:57.53brlcad"attach ogl"
05:57.59starseekerow
05:58.00brlcador ogl during the Attach prompt
05:58.10starseekerthinks he figured it out
05:58.34*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@c-71-197-213-172.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
05:58.36brlcadI think he's just yanking our chain
05:58.41brlcadthere's nothing wrong with it
05:58.43Ralith:P
05:58.55starseekerwonders if that happens with 7.12.4 and/or trunk
05:59.07brlcadstarseeker: it does, known issue
05:59.09brlcadin the bugs file
05:59.10RalithI'm running 7.12.4 as built by freebsd ports
05:59.21Ralither
05:59.21starseekerand that does work?
05:59.23Raliththat is
05:59.31Ralith7.12.4 as built by freebsd ports works great
05:59.32brlcadit is a driver bug, different versions are less catastrophic
05:59.36Ralithhaven't tested trunk
05:59.44starseekerah
05:59.49Ralithshall I try trunk? Is this solvable?
06:00.07brlcadit's based on whether we ask/get a direct opengl rendering context from glx
06:00.28Ralithsurely there's a way to fail more elgantly than killing X?
06:00.33brlcadit's actually a one-character flag in one source file that usually will take it from all going to hell and not
06:01.23Ralithso... fixable?
06:01.23brlcadRalith: iirc, it dies the first time it tries to draw on the context
06:01.29Ralithah.
06:01.32Ralithno way to safely validate the context?
06:01.39brlcadbefore that, everything checks out
06:01.49starseekerevil
06:02.09starseekerwill have to ask ``Erik what the freebsd ports version does
06:02.13pacman87trunk still goes 100% cpu on me without -c
06:02.18brlcadit avoids causing the crash by asking for a software rendering context
06:02.28brlcadwhich absolutely sucks for performance
06:02.29Ralithstarseeker: I can see right off that the freebsd version doesn't patch anything
06:02.37Raliththat would suck.
06:02.45Ralithbut I run glx things on here all the time
06:02.58brlcadhence the suggestion to use --without-opengl during configure
06:02.58Ralithwhat's brl-cad doing that they aren't?
06:02.58brlcadsame functionality,but avois the crash
06:03.09Ralithwait, --without-opengl still allows acceleration?
06:03.14brlcadRalith: feel free to debug it ;)
06:03.19Ralithno thanks :P
06:03.27Ralithhas reset enough for one night
06:03.43brlcadsure, it often actually outperforms as the X calls have less overhead
06:03.50Ralithheh
06:04.04Ralithso long as the new gui doesn't have the issue.
06:04.14Ralith(it doesn't. Yet, anyway.)
06:04.31brlcadthere's no loss in functionaltiy remember, this is pretty low level "what language am I talking to for this unknown generic display device thing"
06:04.50Ralithdoesn't it lose hardware accel?
06:04.51brlcadnew gui is entirely different architecture/design
06:05.01starseekershould we just trigger the without-opengl flag on BSD for now?
06:05.04brlcadonly if X isn't accelerated
06:05.12Ralith...huh.
06:05.17brlcadand if X isn't, you're not getting accelerated anything
06:05.19Ralithso why bother with GL at all when X is available?
06:05.46brlcadall the new stuff started happening in the X layer, it's more generalized
06:05.53brlcader, s/X/ogl/
06:06.11brlcadso for example, there's an experimental "shaded mode"
06:06.15brlcadthat only works with ogl
06:06.19Raliththere is? O.O
06:06.24Ralithwants to play with that :(
06:06.26brlcadbut it's so experimental that it's not used
06:06.47RalithI wasn't aware we had the infastructure to support a shaded mode yet.
06:06.54brlcadthere aren't any production-ready features in ogl that X doesn't do
06:07.01Ralithkk
06:07.02brlcadwe do and we don't
06:07.25brlcadthere has been a way in there for nearly a decade
06:07.25starseekerI gotta run guys - I've still got a 35 minute drive home
06:07.25brlcadit's just really expensive to evaluate .. and not robust
06:07.33brlcadstarseeker: yowsa!
06:07.44starseekeryeah, I'm still at work :-/
06:07.45brlcadcya
06:07.46Ralithwhat's it do, shoot a bunch of rays to test for depth and assemble a mesh?
06:08.16brlcadno, that could be done more robustly probably
06:08.23brlcadthough it's still be relatively slow
06:08.29starseekerit was worth it though - now I have a firm foundation on which to shake out any release bugs :-)
06:08.40Ralithif it's not terribly hard to explain, how does it work?
06:09.00brlcadsure, so you have a geometry hierarchy
06:09.04brlcadstarseeker: excellent!
06:09.27brlcadthat hierarchy consists of nodes with boolean operations and leaf nodes that are primitives
06:10.12brlcadbasically, it tessellates each primitive, then pairwise combines their mesh per the boolean operation all the way up the hierarchy
06:10.18Ralithah.
06:10.40Ralithand the mesh boolean ops have a tendency to fail?
06:10.50Ralith(limited accuracy aside)
06:11.21brlcadeven the primitive tessellations can fail, though I'd characterise those more as tolerance bugs that can be fixed
06:11.30brlcadbut yeah, the mesh boolean ops can fail
06:12.01RalithThat strikes me as weird, despite being an issue present in every mesh boolean tool I've seen
06:12.23brlcadit's an np-complete problem at that point, lots of issues come into play -- floating point tolerance, numerical drift, several O(n^3) algorithms, and more
06:12.30Ralithah.
06:12.33Raliththat's no fun at all.
06:12.48brlcadconceptually, it's very simple
06:12.53brlcadin practice, it's hell
06:13.05Ralithso poolio's project is basically a rehash of that done the Right Way, with no tesselation involved?
06:13.21brlcadespecially if you try and guarantee that you end up with the same topological structure and that it's a closed solid volume (which a lot of meshers ignore)
06:13.40brlcadthere is still tessellation, but *after* the boolean is evaluated, not before
06:14.07brlcadevaluating the spline surfaces against each other first, deriving evaluated spline surface results
06:14.38brlcadthen just walking each surface and asking for a tessellation .. much more stable (and efficient) approach
06:14.51Ralithis it possible for a library user to get ahold of the spline data, so that one could e.g. generate a set of nice smooth vector slices appropriate for being fed into a rapid prototyper?
06:14.52brlcadjust a bit harder to implement
06:15.27Ralithbasically, get in before the tesselation induces imprecision?
06:15.59brlcadsure, conceivably with this new multirepresentation format, you can evaluate any evaluated brep object with a plane and derive a vector representation of that slice
06:16.06Ralith:D
06:16.09brlcaduse that for images, for g-code generation
06:16.12Ralithawesome!
06:16.16brlcadtruely
06:16.48brlcadfor rapid prototyping, though, you can do that now discretely with ray-tracing
06:17.02Raliththat's good to know
06:17.05brlcadfar far simpler to implement, should be more than sufficient to a given tolerance
06:17.14jonoredGetting the surfaces to trace doesn't seem as straightforward with the raytracing.
06:17.15Ralithbut for some purposes, bar extremely smart g-code generators
06:17.25Ralithit's much more useful to have the vectors
06:17.26brlcadjonored: how so?
06:17.45Ralithjonored: if all else fails, just boolean subtract away all but a thin slice of the object, render orthographically, rinse, repeat
06:17.56brlcadintersect your object (CSG intersection operation) for each layer, raytrace each layer orthogonally
06:18.06Ralithright, intersect. that would be easier.
06:18.28brlcadactually subtraction would be more efficient :)
06:18.34Ralithhehe
06:18.44brlcadbut yeah, same result
06:18.57brlcadassuming you're on the right side ;)
06:18.57Raliththe great thing about the vector version, though, is machines like the reprap can accept g-code for smooth curves
06:19.00jonoredWell, infill seems simple, but I wasn't quite seeing how to pull the outline as a curve from just raytracing. I may be being dense.
06:19.17Ralithwhich can then be printed perfectly smooth, and even at higher speed than a manyline approximation
06:19.31Ralithjonored: we can't, but it's no worse than what we already do.
06:19.45brlcadRalith: raytrace it to a high-enough tolerance and then you can do edge reconstruction, interpolate a matching spline
06:19.51Ralithedge reconstruction is no fun.
06:20.01Ralithjonored: there's even a discussion on the reprap forums about doing a similar thing with povray.
06:20.11brlcadit's not, but you can sample as much as you like to find boundaries
06:20.36Ralithbesides, there's something very satisfying about having *perfect* precision throughout the whole process
06:20.39Ralithbarring hardware fp errors
06:20.40jonored...which is why I wasn't hacking around with tcl already to get a slicer built on brl-cad.
06:20.42brlcadtrue
06:21.22Ralithjonored: I don't know if that would be worthwhile; brl-cad probably won't attract any serious use from the reprap guys very easily until the new gui is usable, and at that point poolio's work might be usable, too.
06:21.53brlcadthere are several really good papers that have sprung up this year on how to efficiently evaluate surface-surface intersections, so I'm pretty hopeful/convinced we can get something working out of this
06:21.54Ralithbrlcad: I'm the sort of guy who cares about the difference between a .01mm _| and a .01mm /
06:22.06Ralithgreat :)
06:22.28jonoredThere's a difference between using it as a modeler and using it because it has a bunch of converters in the context of writing a program.
06:22.31Ralithat least, in the context of application for rapidprototyping
06:23.03Ralithjonored: true, but you lose most of the awesomeness if you're importing non-csg data anyway.
06:23.21brlcadRalith: it's actually our #1 priority project right now
06:23.24RalithI'm not sure non-csg data can be very usefully imported for nonvisual purposes, anyway.
06:23.31brlcadfollowed closely behind by STEP conversion support
06:23.39Raliththat's really good to hear
06:23.45brlcadfollowed by new geometry engine and geometry service
06:23.50brlcadfollowed by new gui work
06:23.55jonoredRalith: If you use Adrian's csg-of-half-spaces interpretation for STL stuff, it seems like it imports reasonably well...
06:24.11brlcadthey all tie in to each other though .. BREP/NURBS support is pretty foundational though
06:24.16brlcadhence it being top-priority
06:24.35Ralithjonored: csg-of-half-spaces? I'm not familiar with that.
06:24.36brlcadcan't do good gui or conversion support without it
06:25.21Ralithheh
06:25.23Ralithhere's a thought
06:25.52brlcadRalith: we can import non-csg data .. ray-trace, analyze and manipulate it like any other geometry .. combine non-csg brep with csg primitives, etc
06:26.10RalithI wonder if you could convert meshes to CSG fairly easily by simply generating an extruded triangule at every face, then extruding them back until they intersect another face, then unioning them all.
06:26.12brlcadyou just have a heck of a time editing polygonal models
06:26.17jonoredRalith: Going and looking up the thing - if you think about it a bit, an object whose surface is made up of planar facets and one that's a CSG combination of half-spaces seem to be the same set.
06:26.25brlcadand there's pretty much no suport to edit spline surface models yet
06:26.43Ralithbrlcad: I wasn't aware there was good support for boolean operations on non-csg data. that's good to hear, too.
06:27.19brlcadthe ray trace engine will evaluate just about anything and any combination thereof
06:27.29Ralithneat.
06:27.49Ralithjonored: forgive my infamiliarity with terminology -- half spaces?
06:28.16brlcadit's one of the strenths of our engine, part why brl-cad exists
06:28.44RalithI hope poolio's work will be as flexible.
06:29.12jonoredRalith: The surface is a plane, and everything on one side is in the solid, and everything on the other isn't.
06:29.13brlcadjonored: not sure if you're indirectly referring to it, but we have a specific primitive that is exactly that
06:29.40brlcadarbn .. collection of n half-spaces that form an arbitrary convex polyhedral solid
06:30.11Ralithno potential for nonconvex things?
06:30.21brlcadnot using half-spaces :)
06:30.28jonoredRalith: Union of two of them?
06:30.53brlcadoh sure, you can always perform additional booleans with others
06:30.56Ralithjonored: I'm pretty sure they can be a bitch to cut apart computationally for that
06:31.48brlcadunioning two arbn's though is not the same as taking the union of all the half-spaces that those two are comprised of
06:32.47brlcadi.e. they're not associative
06:33.47Ralitharbn is an arbitrary convex solid describable by a mesh?
06:34.56jonoredRalith: The stuff I'm ranting about is there (admittedly without detail as to algorithm) at the bottom of http://www.reprap.org/bin/view/Main/MultipleMaterialsFiles
06:35.57Ralithjonored: we should add brlcad databases to the article.
06:38.13jonored...You know, they do rather have all of the characteristics that we could want, don't they. Including the multiple material part. We should get a slice routine put together. That said, I am being dragged off to bed; it's 2:30 here.
06:41.07Ralithyeah, I've been thinking about storing material properties in region metadata for a while
06:41.10Ralithg'night
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07:16.08Ralithbrlcad: do you ever sleep?
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09:10.04brlcadRalith: why bother?
09:10.47brlcadand yes, arbn 'can' be fairly easily described by a mesh
09:11.43brlcadpresuming it's a convex mesh
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09:19.41brlcadunless you do what you indicated and piecewise deconstruct a concave structure into unions of convex
09:20.20brlcadwanders back to code
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09:46.10mafmhallo
09:49.18Ralithhay
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10:27.03CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32186 10/rt^3/trunk/data/g3d/RBGui/themes/ (9 files): Adding new icons for windows
10:27.46Ralithoo, icons!
10:28.05Ralithmafm: by the way, I think I can generate freebsd binary tarballs pretty easily
10:29.32mafmgoody
10:30.04mafmI think that brlcad wanted binary tarballs for every platform, not "native formats" (deb, rpm, whatever)
10:30.26mafmI don't know if cmake has some support for it?
10:31.05Ralithit's moot
10:31.13Ralithyou can make one by having cmake install to an empty dir
10:31.14Raliththen tarring up the dir
10:31.46mafmyep, that too :)
10:34.30CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32187 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiWindowManager.cxx GuiWindowManager.h): Adding new method for getting the default theme being used (and thus be able to ask for resources like images easily)
10:34.53RalithI really need to get to sleep, anyway
10:34.54Ralithgood luck
10:35.12Ralithif you come up with anything you'd like to delegate to me, just let me know
10:36.10mafmRalith: I think that we need to talk more deeply soon
10:36.25Ralithalright
10:36.32mafmbut this weekend I'm going to a festival and wouldn't return until tuesday or so :D
10:36.36Ralith:|
10:36.47mafmI really need a break
10:36.51Ralithkk
10:36.53mafm;)
10:36.57Ralithyou can always just write up something and email me
10:37.05RalithI'm happy to work on whatever
10:37.13mafmyep, maybe I even join from my parent's home too :)
10:37.21Ralithkk
10:37.28mafmas for areas ready to work in, packaging is a good candidate
10:37.32mafmif you like that
10:37.41Ralithwell
10:37.44Ralithnot much I can do for that
10:37.48Ralithdon't have linux boxes handy
10:37.56Ralithand screw setting up a win32 dev environment
10:38.06CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32188 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/GuiCamera.cxx: Showing the new icons
10:38.18mafmdo you prefer programming?
10:38.19RalithI'm pretty sure I can already throw together a BSD tarball on short notice
10:38.29Ralithof course I prefer programming :P
10:38.46mafmmaybe you would like to take care of the camera system?
10:39.10Raliththat's fairly large, and I have no past experience with ogre or rbgui, but I'd love to give it a try
10:39.26Ralithwhat you have right now *should* be plenty to learn-by-example from
10:39.30Raliththanks!
10:39.34mafmRBGui is not involved, except for the focusing maybe that you said :)
10:39.49Ralithwell, and there are some settings I'd like to have exposed in a guifical way
10:40.06mafmlike zooming in and rotating?
10:40.18Ralithactually not coming to mind at the moment
10:40.36mafmthe current window that I'm creating is for that
10:40.37Ralithprobably because it's 3:40 AM where I am
10:40.38mafmcamera control :)
10:40.46mafmok, so we'll talk in another moment
10:40.49mafmgood night! :)
10:40.49Ralithyeah, that sounded relevant
10:41.04Ralithand things like precision position display/entry seem appropriate for the console
10:41.21Ralithmaybe a small overlay text could show current az/el/etc?
10:41.53Ralithdiscussions to be had later I suppose.
10:41.54Ralithg'night!
10:42.06mafmI guess ;)
10:57.16mafmbrlcad: getting more minions for the WDMP
11:34.41CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32189 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/java/stractNet/src/ (68 files in 15 dirs):
11:37.17CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32190 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/java/stractNet/ (.classpath .project):
11:41.42CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32191 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/java/stractNet/src/stractNet/SNRoot.java: Testing commit from windows
11:46.25CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32192 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/java/stractNet/docs/ (5 files):
12:26.58CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32193 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/java/stractThread/ (15 files in 4 dirs):
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12:28.39CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32194 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/java/stractThread/docs/:
12:29.41CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32195 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/java/stractNet/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
13:03.27CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32196 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/java/stractNet/src/stractNet/messaging/ (MessageDispatcher.java MessagingSystem.java):
13:13.50CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32197 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/java/stractNet/docs/stractNet.eap:
13:30.17CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32198 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (7 files): Enhancing camera modes by adding bindings for actions in the camera control window
13:31.55CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32199 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiCamera.cxx GuiCamera.h): Bind actions in camera control window with camera modes
13:39.15CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32200 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/java/stractNet/docs/ (stractNet.eap stractNet.ldb):
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14:13.15mafmI go for the weekend, to my homeland
14:13.28mafmto a festival, to visit my parents, friends, etc
14:13.58mafmso I think that I won't be back until tuesday, in the case that somebody wonders why I won't be here
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15:01.53starseekerregains consciousness
16:12.31starseekerbrlcad: Hmm - has the mged regression test ever been run in an out-of-tree build situation before?
16:14.56starseekermged appears to have built and installed successfully, but the regress script couldn't find
16:15.00starseekerit
16:17.00brlcad~wdmp
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16:17.37brlcadstarseeker: I don't think so
16:18.11starseekerwdmp?
16:18.14brlcadrather, "maybe" but it's not really critical .. it just needs to work for 'some' configuration
16:18.22brlcad06:57 < mafm> brlcad: getting more minions for the WDMP
16:18.30starseekerah :-)
16:19.32brlcadhas no idea what that means :)
16:44.11poolioweb development marketing and promotion?
16:45.07CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32201 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/proc-db/tire.1 src/proc-db/tire.c):
16:45.07CIA-23BRL-CAD: Add w option to tire to allow modelers to avoid wheel/rim generation (also
16:45.07CIA-23BRL-CAD: changes how air region is built accordingly) - eventually this option will also
16:45.07CIA-23BRL-CAD: be used to specify different wheel types but right now the only options are on
16:45.07CIA-23BRL-CAD: and off.
16:45.59CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32202 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/proc-db/ (tire.1 tire.c): Add tire updates from trunk r32201
17:12.39starseekergrr
17:12.40starseekermake[2]: Entering directory `/home/cyapp/cadtoplevel/brlcad/release-build/misc/pkgconfig'
17:12.44starseekermake[2]: *** No rule to make target `liwdb.pc.in', needed by `distdir'.  Stop.
17:13.07brlcadsup?
17:13.14starseekermake distcheck failed
17:13.19starseekeron the above problem
17:13.21brlcadyou want to know the fix?
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17:13.26starseekertwood be nice
17:13.30brlcadtis a one-character typo
17:13.35brlcadlibwdb
17:13.53starseekerturns mildly red
17:14.01brlcadso there's a liwdb.pc probably listed in configure.ac
17:14.07pooliostarseeker:  :)
17:14.19brlcadeither there or in misc/pkgconfig/Makefile.am
17:14.22pooliobrlcad: are you at your office?
17:14.51brlcadpoolio: no, I'm not - sup?
17:15.14pooliowas just wondering if you could send me some schtuff. maybe the next time your in, it's on the desktop as a .zip again
17:15.31brlcadah, hold on
17:15.48poolio*you're. My grammar is terrible on IRC :\
17:15.57CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32203 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/misc/pkgconfig/Makefile.am: Oops, thanks Sean - typo in pkgconfig Makefile.am
17:15.59starseekerneeds to get into the office, now that his brain has booted
17:16.30starseekermust have introduced that himself when he removed libpc
17:16.31starseekergah
17:17.21starseekerOh well, at least I won't have to hear complaints about how hard it is to remove rims from a tire generated wheel :-)
17:17.22brlcadpoolio: yeah, I gather it's off the net .. I should have it later today
17:17.48brlcadstarseeker: nah, I think that was there and later fixed
17:17.53poolioalrighty. no rush, I just wanted to get some work in this weekend before I head off
17:17.57brlcadso you're just a couple revisions shy
17:18.13starseeker<snort> and after all that rev by rev updating too...
17:20.39starseeker/bin/sh ../pre-7-12-6/sh/cmakecheck.sh
17:20.39starseekerERROR: cannot find src/libbn/CMakeLists.txt
17:20.51starseekeroh, cmakecheck.sh
17:20.55starseekerI hadn't tested it
17:21.01starseekercertainly not out of source
17:22.07brlcadyeah, it assumes pwd is a specific place
17:22.23starseekernotices - so make distcheck should be run only in-tree?
17:22.37starseekergah, my CMakeLists are way out of sync
17:26.05CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32204 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Update cmake lists to avoid MISSING errors in cmakecheck.sh, should check that they really do match source trees
17:26.36CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32205 10/brlcad/trunk/Makefile.am: make the cmake distcheck check work out of dir (untested)
17:26.57starseeker:-)
17:27.11starseekercan you do the mged regress script to? :-) :-)
17:29.13brlcadit's not the only one, most of them aren't set up for it
17:29.37starseekerOK, nevermind - I'll reconfigure
17:31.00brlcadwhat's the actual error?
17:31.12brlcadif you run "make mged" in the regress dir?
17:32.21starseekerI think it couldn't find mged, i'll run it as sone as autoconf shuts up...
17:32.49starseekerUnable to find mged, aborting
17:32.49starseekermake: [mged] Error 1 (ignored)
17:40.58CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32206 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/ (8 files): go an extra mile to find mged and set up paths properly regardless of the compile being in or out of dir -- untested and there are undoubtedly other commands, but it's one step
17:44.09starseekerbrlcad:  that dir command doesn't work in Makefile.am - tries to change to directory "ir"
17:44.40starseekerI think you want something like currdir="`pwd`" ; cd $(top_srcdir) && ${SH} $(top_srcdir)/sh/cmakecheck.sh ; cd $(currdir)
17:45.25starseekeraaah, crud
17:45.41starseekermesses up his out of source build by configuring for an in-source one
17:46.02starseekerOK, I've got to get in there - this is looking good though :-)
17:46.32starseekerbrlcad:  Didn't mean to pull you off your other stuff, I know this is supposed to by my baby right now :-/
17:52.17CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32207 10/brlcad/trunk/Makefile.am: oops, it's a shell var
17:52.44brlcadyou have to escape the $ since it's a shell var, not a makefile var
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20:26.28CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32208 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (TODO pcNetwork.h pcPCSet.h solver_test.cpp): code rearrangement, addition of BinaryNetwork(PCSet &) constructor skeleton. seems like BinaryNetwork needs to be de-templated as well
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20:31.14*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is participating in the 2008 Google Summer of Code! || Release 7.12.4 is posted (source-only release)
20:51.10CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32209 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (TODO pcNetwork.h solver_test.cpp): BinaryNetwork generation from PCSet complete.. implicit assumption that all the variables are of the same type dut to BinaryNetwork<T>
21:09.26CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32210 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (TODO pcConstraint.cpp pcConstraint.h pcNetwork.h): renaming evaluating functor of a constraint to eval from funct, making the Variable list of constraint object private for encapsulation
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22:26.47CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32211 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (9 files in 2 dirs): Update r32205, r32206 - steps towards out-of-tree regression testing.
22:38.59starseekerwell, out-of-tree still doesn't seem mged but in-tree make distcheck seems to be succeeding.
22:40.52Ralithwas a workaround going to be implemented for the driver issues I hit, or are we going to rely on ports to disable opengl at the configure stage?
22:47.06starseekerProbably the latter at the moment :-(
22:47.49Ralithnothing new as far as ports is concerned
22:48.05Ralithwho's "erik@smluc.org"?
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22:48.26Ralith(he's listed as the port maintainer)
22:49.30Ralithif this problem is common on nvidia/freebsd it would be bad to make a release without the workaround
22:55.32starseekerI believe it's ``Erik here
22:55.43starseekerthe workaround may take weeks
22:55.52starseekerI have no idea how hard it would be
22:56.39starseekersomeone with more knowledge of that part of the system might be able to track it down faster, but I don't have the expert knowledge yet :-/
22:57.03starseekerwould have a lot of learning to do just to get started :-(
22:57.37Ralithstarseeker: uh, the workaround is disabling opengl :P
22:57.51Ralithyou're thinking of the fix.
22:57.55starseekerOh, gotcha
22:58.05Ralith``Erik: you around?
22:58.21starseekerthe fix is  to get BSD's drivers fixed ;-)
22:59.37Ralithyeah, good luck convincing nvidia to do something about that.
22:59.48starseekerindeed :/
23:00.02starseekerYAY make distcheck succeeded
23:02.28Ralith:D
23:02.30starseeker``Erik may pop in later
23:05.07Ralithso long as later is before he puts up the port.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080802

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080802

00:37.21brlcadyawns
01:06.17*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
01:58.26starseekerbrlcad:  I don't seem to have svn2cl on my box - where's the right place to get it from?
01:58.55starseekeris awed brlcad is still awake, and wonders if there will be an east coast coffee shortage soon
01:59.44starseekerhttp://ch.tudelft.nl/~arthur/svn2cl/ ?
02:01.38starseekeryay, portage has it
02:01.43starseekeremerge ftw
02:02.34brlcadhaven't gotten to caffeination yet
02:02.37brlcadmaybe tonight
02:03.00brlcadyeah, there's only one svn2cl .. though various versions
02:03.28starseekertries 0.9
02:03.32brlcadsome older ones don't have the --break-before-message option
02:03.40brlcadif not, just leave it off, not important
02:03.43starseekerk
02:03.49brlcadother versions are buggy and won't work without --stdout and a redirect
02:04.03starseekerwill just be sucking in the branch history anyway, which is mildly embarassing
02:04.25brlcadit is what it is
02:04.48starseekernods
02:04.49brlcadcranks up the music since nobody is around
02:04.56starseekeryou're into work?
02:05.19brlcadyeah, needed a change of scenery
02:05.30starseekerwow
02:05.32brlcadand the friday night sci-fi rotation is too tempting
02:05.36starseeker:-)
02:08.08starseekerhates to have to ask this, but... is there a special way a "portable" Linux binary is built?
02:08.16starseekerditto for Mac
02:12.01brlcadin what sense?
02:12.22brlcadmaking one binary that works any/everywhere?
02:21.53brlcadnot possible, at least not for all values of any/every
02:34.50brlcadwhat you can usually get, though, is portable to a given version of libc
02:35.06brlcadstill architecture specific
02:35.52Ralithstarseeker: compile all the libs in and make sure it knows where to look for config data?
02:36.02Ralithrelative paths everwhar, etc
02:36.10brlcadmac goes a lot farther and there's ways to make a 'universal' binary, but we're not fully set up for that (requires dynamic runtime endian checks)
02:36.33brlcadRalith: that's not practical for a brl-cad release
02:36.47brlcadcompiling in all the libs will result in a binary install that is a couple GB in size
02:37.30RalithO.o
02:37.31brlcadwe are already relocatable, that bit was done a while back
02:37.59Ralithyay
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03:24.25CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32212 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (6 files): Making constraint check (Constraint::check() ) be argumentless by passing PCSet reference and Varialbe id list to the eval functor: stage 1/2 - all the changes outside the functor implementation
03:27.43starseekerjust needs to know how to do the binary builds for the release
03:30.41brlcaddamn, houdini event is already full
03:31.49brlcadstarseeker: i can answer the questions, but a bit of it is platform-specific so I'd ask as the questions come up
03:32.01starseekerok
03:32.10brlcadthe general process is after testing is complete, take these steps
03:33.24brlcadensure /usr/brlcad exists but without any /usr/brlcad/rel-* directories (you can move them out and back if needed)
03:34.36brlcadfor config, you'll want to use on all(?) platforms: ./configure --enable-all --enable-optimized --without-opengl --prefix=/usr/brlcad/rel-7.12.6
03:35.01brlcadmake sure it compiles, passes tests, run /usr/brlcad/bin/mged and do some quick sanity checking
03:36.06brlcadthen make sure there are symbolic links in /usr/brlcad for bin, include, lib, man, and share that point to stable/same .. and then a stable link that points to rel-7.12.6
03:37.08brlcadso you end up with something like: http://paste.bzflag.bz/m6897f220
03:37.51brlcadthen two steps remain, make the tarballs and uploads to sf.net
03:38.52brlcadtarball can be made with: sh/make_tar.sh BRL-CAD 7.12.6 /usr/brlcad
03:39.47starseekerexcellent - thank you!
03:39.49brlcadmake a copy of that and encrypt in bz2, gz, and zip format using: sh/make_bz2.sh BRL-CAD
03:40.03starseekerencrypt... - you mean compress?
03:40.07brlcader, yeah
03:40.21brlcadwow, what a slip back to pre open source days
03:40.22starseekerdidn't know we signed release tarballs
03:40.37brlcadthere used to be an encrypt step :)
03:40.39starseekerheh - password alphabeta?
03:40.43brlcadnot signed, actually encrypted
03:41.59brlcadeach platform in turn has a specific naming convention it should use, documented in HACKING
03:42.42brlcadNAMING A SOURCE RELEASE and NAMING A BINARY RELEASE sections
03:43.09brlcadsource tarball is lowercase, binaries are upper
03:43.20brlcadthinks "what else"
03:44.35brlcadah yes, uploading to sourceforge -- there are instructions on sf site for using the file release system (FRS), basically entails using sftp, adding a version entry for each platform, setting the news and release notes, then selecting that binary
03:45.15brlcadI can walk you through that part when you get to it, it's one of the few where you really don't want to make a mistake because there are several actions that are absolutely unrecoverable through the FRS
03:45.25starseekerOK
03:45.40brlcad(never delete anything! .. unless you are 100% sure what you're doing is okay)
03:45.45starseeker:-)
03:46.09brlcadonce you hit the "notify users", there is no going back too
03:46.30starseekerOK
03:46.43brlcadand no removal of a bad tarball after the first day even if there is a problem -- have to upload a new rev
03:46.52brlcadi.e. it's forward-only
03:47.04brlcadthinks that about covers it
03:47.14starseekermake distcheck succeeded on the Mac, along with the other tests, but I still need to check Linux and think figure out what to do about a Windows build
03:47.42starseekerNot to mention invent some release notes for the NEWS file...
03:47.56brlcadthen there is a slew of announcements that go out, but I'd hold off on those
03:48.02starseekersure
03:48.13starseekerwill let brlcad decide when/if to notify anyone
03:48.43brlcadminor releases don't *have* to have additional release notes -- depends on what is worth emphasizing
03:49.22brlcadall the various announcement outlets have their own format requirements anyways, you never get to just write it once and use it everywhere
03:50.10starseekerOh, sure - I'm just trying to decide about the NEWS file in the distro
03:50.18starseekermaybe the pipe improvements?
03:50.19brlcadthe linux-cad mailing list needs to be linux-centric, freshmeat wants a human-readable short paragraph only, our news list is all events since the last posting, main website is that release, sf site has additional footer info, ... :)
03:50.40starseekerblegh ;-)
03:50.42brlcadusually spends an entire day formulating the appropriate notifications if it's a big release
03:51.59brlcadreads the list
03:52.17brlcadah, hell -- the nirt changes are definitely worth calling out
03:54.04brlcadas well as the mged (various) changes
03:54.11brlcadand the tire changes
03:54.16brlcadthat's two or three paras
03:55.49brlcadthen all it needs..
03:55.53brlcad~cowbell starseeker
03:55.54ibotstarseeker, try it with a little more cowbell ... really explore the object space this time
03:56.24starseekerisn't familiar with the reference
03:56.31brlcadheh, really?
03:56.34brlcad~cowbell
03:56.34ibotthey're gonna want more cowbell in your program
03:56.45starseekerah :-)
03:57.18starseekercan try writing notes, but knows how particular brlcad is about such things - should it wait until you have time?
03:57.19brlcadhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1721265933126353939
03:57.39starseekersuspects he will be testing for a day or two yet, particularly with windows thrown in
04:05.37starseekerneeds to check and make sure which of the MGED improvements made it in
04:07.46Ralithimagines a cwbl primitive
04:08.05starseekerthat'd be some funky primitive math ;-)
04:08.18starseekerRalith:  btw, thanks for testing the build on FreeBSD
04:08.21Ralithno problem
04:08.33RalithI don't think I ever ran all the way through 'make test' though
04:08.33starseekerwas rather sleep deprived at that point, can't remember if he said that
04:08.38RalithI'll update and rebuild and do that again
04:08.44starseekerthanks :-)
04:09.04Ralithhappy to contribute
04:09.15starseekerI'll make sure to check with ``Erik about the port and keeping the opengl disabled
04:09.24Raliththanks
04:14.12CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32213 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (7 files in 6 dirs): Update all the version numbers I can spot, start tweaking the NEWS file.
04:14.25starseekergrr - comcast, quit messing with my ssh connection
04:15.49Ralith<3 grep
04:17.39starseekergrepped, but sometimes the pieces are scattered
04:19.32CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32214 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ChangeLog: Release ChangeLog, per HACKING. Since this release is a true branch and not a tagging of trunk, ChangeLog is from pre-7-12-6 branch - the release building effort.
04:20.00Ralithtesting
04:20.03Ralithprays it won't eat X
04:20.13starseekerwithout opengl, it shouldn't
04:20.22Ralithyeah
04:20.24Ralithbut you know X.
04:20.28starseekerheh
04:20.32Ralithit's so very... edible.
04:20.41*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
04:20.43starseekermmm, crunchy
04:20.53starseekerthat's not good
04:21.31*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@c-71-197-213-172.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
04:21.35starseekerow
04:21.36Ralith--disable-opengl, huh?
04:21.48starseekersuggests grabbing the config flags used by the port
04:21.50Raliththat doesn't seem to have disabled anything.
04:21.57RalithI didn't use the port
04:22.01starseekerI know
04:22.02RalithI configured it manually :P
04:22.07Ralithorite
04:22.20Ralithbut didn't we isolate this to the GL stuffs already?
04:22.33Ralithwhy doesn't --disable-opengl stop it from using opengl in mged?
04:22.39starseekerdid you do a make clean
04:22.51Ralith...wups
04:22.56RalithI thought GBS was smarter than that
04:23.15Ralithrebuilding from scratch.
04:23.19starseekernot sure - given you got death by gl, my first response is to scrub
04:24.11Ralithreasonable
04:24.26Ralithiirc I didn't make test last night cuz the mged binary was inexplicably dated to before my reconfigured rebuild
04:24.33starseekerdid you do make install or are you running from the build tree?
04:24.39Ralithbuild tree
04:24.46starseekerhmm
04:24.54starseekeryeah, clean out that sucker
04:25.00Ralithdid, building again
04:25.03starseekercool
04:25.09Ralithwould be angry if he didn't have a dual core
04:25.34starseekerdidn't realize he had gotten a dual core until he installed it
04:25.48starseeker<3 dual core
04:26.10Ralithhehe
04:26.20Ralithseriously; I never imagined it'd be this helpful.
04:26.51starseekerme either - all of a sudden I could do two things at once without straining the system :-)
04:27.12Ralithcompiling and watching a movie go well together
04:27.30starseeker'cept for when I forget to compile in the kernel's disk IO drivers - no helping performance then
04:28.26Ralithblinks
04:28.37Ralithuh, without disk I/O drivers, how is your system operable?
04:29.39brlcadneat, there will be an advanced screening of the clone wars
04:30.05Raliththe clone wars?
04:30.15Ralithdid we hop back several years or something?
04:30.21PrezKennedyStar Wars 2.5 "The Clone wars have raged for years, and now we take an inside look because George Lucas has decided he needs more cash."
04:30.25brlcadthe new one coming out in a couple weeks
04:30.28Ralithoh.
04:30.29Raliththat.
04:30.45Ralithyou know it's bad when they start releasing minor versions
04:30.57brlcadyeah, maybe meh, but the animations look like it might be interesting
04:31.15brlcadand can't beat a free screening (assuming it doesn't conflict with something)
04:32.24brlcadnot --disable-opengl .. it's --without-opengl
04:32.29PrezKennedyThey should do Star Wars: Episode 4 -- The Animated Movie
04:32.34Ralith:|
04:32.37brlcadenable/disable is internal, with/without is external
04:32.55starseekerwhoops
04:33.01starseekershould have spotted that
04:33.31brlcadINSTALL file details ftw
04:34.06Ralithrestarts the build again.
04:35.01brlcadhow the pixar night on tuesday .. that should be great
04:37.37brlcadi totally shouldn't have looked at the siggraph site.. so .. distracted .. and .. excited
04:37.43Ralithwut?
04:37.56brlcadRalith: ever been to siggraph?
04:37.59Ralithnah
04:38.03Ralithsounds interesting though
04:38.07brlcadah, explains it ;)
04:38.14Ralithlots of projects I follow/have followed are represented there
04:38.19brlcadit's "the" event for anyone and everyone in computer graphics
04:38.24Ralithyeah, I know a bit about it
04:38.37Ralithdoes BRL-CAD offer a presence?
04:38.39brlcadI turn into a giddy school girl every year right about this time
04:38.42Ralithhehe
04:39.05brlcadyeah, we've held BoF's in the past, technical papers, collaborations
04:39.17Ralithfun!
04:39.24brlcadwe'll have several guys attending this year
04:40.13brlcadif you feel the urge to drive the distance, glad to treat you to drinks on me! :-)
04:40.27Ralithhehe
04:40.35brlcadnot sure a couple hundred bucks in gas are work a couple dozen in drinks though :)
04:40.36RalithI'd love to, but it's infeasible
04:41.01starseekerhasn't been before either, so he is clueless - just wants to make sure he gets to the most useful things for him
04:41.10brlcadstarseeker: any ideas of something we can render?
04:41.10Ralithyou're going?
04:41.10CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32215 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (5 files): much needed cleaning up of pcNetwork.h and separation of code into pcNetwork.cpp, removal of obsolete functions
04:41.35starseekerRalith:  yep
04:41.40brlcadstarseeker: only if you leave the center early or just aren't paying attention will you not find "too much" useful
04:41.57starseekerbrlcad:  Heh
04:42.00brlcadyou're barraged by information, ideas, people, research, graphics, ...
04:42.05starseekerbrlcad:  render for...
04:42.10brlcadfor a poster!
04:42.13starseekerAh
04:42.21starseeker... a moose? ;-)
04:42.31brlcadthere is usually a guerilla studio where you can get just about anything printed up in large-scale format
04:42.34brlcadheh
04:43.27brlcadwas thinking more along the lines of maybe a super-high detailed tire with tread, texturing, .. the works
04:43.34starseekerAh :-)
04:43.37starseekerthat would be cool
04:43.44brlcador even one of the old gsi images .. shiny tank
04:44.12starseekerdidn't want to seem like he was tooting his own horn
04:44.13Raliththat's certainly very iconic of brlcad.
04:44.14brlcador I could get the source visualization working again .. that would be cool
04:44.22Ralithsource visualization?
04:44.47starseekerbrlcad:  Any models better than m35 I could put nice tires on?
04:45.03Ralithimagines a tank with a spare tire on the back
04:45.04brlcadRalith: I worked on a tool a couple siggraphs ago for fun that lets you visualize an entire codebase (in source code / text form) as one mega image
04:45.16Ralithgot any screenshots?
04:45.26brlcadwith syntax hilighting, merge blend with another image
04:45.33brlcadmm, not on hand
04:45.36Ralithaw.
04:46.10starseekersounds like that project some years back that made a map of the linux kernel as a huge postscript file
04:46.34starseekercan never remember the name of the project
04:46.56starseekerAh - Free Code Graphing Project
04:47.02Ralithmyself I was always impressed by the translucent renderings of the fully modeled bradleys and such
04:47.03brlcadthis is more like catting every file together (sans src/other of course) in the tiniest font that remains legible
04:47.07starseekerhttp://fcgp.sourceforge.net/
04:47.11starseekerhehe
04:47.19Ralithalthough those don't really show off any new features
04:47.22brlcadthen you have something that actually prints at about 600 dpi in (huge!) poster size
04:47.23Raliththey look *very* cool
04:47.38Ralithbrlcad: hm, it would be more interesting to visualize it abstractly
04:47.45starseekerlikes the way his earth model came out, but it's waaaay too simple for a BRL-CAD poster
04:48.03Ralithhuge amounts of code are cool and all
04:48.06brlcadstarseeker: could try running that (fcgp) on brl-cad sources, see how it looks
04:48.08Ralithbut, I mean, it's a literal wall of text.
04:48.27starseekerdunno if it would work - I think it takes a lot of customization
04:48.30Ralithbrlcad has more interesting things to show off than how many lines of code it has.
04:48.52brlcadRalith: there's an idea (old talk with transparency), but they take a lot of time to get approval on
04:48.56starseekerwould be an awesome thing if it did work though
04:49.13brlcadif would have to be something already done .. and even then even more effort to dig up the .g
04:49.29Ralithdon't you still have high resolution copies of those ones in the gallery?
04:49.43brlcadsome of them
04:49.50brlcadthe gsi ones, yes
04:49.51RalithI mean, just a small grid of nice big printouts of the more clean images from the gallery would be very cool.
04:49.58Raliththe gsi ones were what I had in mind
04:50.05Ralithand there's always sphflake.
04:50.18brlcadwell, we're not making marketing materials -- we can do that any time
04:50.35starseekeridly wonders what would be a good tire texture...
04:50.49brlcadwe get maybe one or two free printouts at siggraph, so it's usually fun to do something new
04:50.53Ralithahh.
04:51.07brlcadprintouts that commercially are normally 50-100 a pop
04:51.18brlcadbring it back, frame it, etc
04:51.19Ralithyeah, I was thinking about how expensive poster size at 600dpi would be
04:51.36starseekerwould live to take a ruler and go find an old m35 somewhere - could REALLY improve the model
04:52.12starseekerwonders what the m35 would look like in surface normal rendering...
04:52.21brlcadlarge format printings, variable size, but common is 2'x4' (yes feet) though you can go bigger if they like what you're printing
04:52.29RalithI don't suppose the new lighting system from the SoC has anything to show yet?
04:52.45RalithI want a printer like that
04:52.46brlcadnah, he won't be done in time
04:52.50Ralithaw.
04:52.54Ralithnot even a pretty WIP?
04:53.14brlcadwould be faster to try to get rise working on a tessellation
04:53.21Ralithrise?
04:53.42brlcadthe realistic image synthesis engine, part of ADRT .. the stryker image is a rise image
04:54.03Ralithoo, that one
04:54.14Ralithadrt isn't part of brlcad?
04:54.18brlcadit is
04:54.32brlcadbut there's a fair bit of prep .. it's cumbersome
04:54.49Ralithreview the image to see render time 5 days
04:54.50Ralith...wow.
04:54.53brlcadgreat results, but not user friendly :)
04:55.14brlcadthat was before some optimizations -- that same image would take about a day with current resources
04:55.20Ralithon 48 xeons.
04:55.25Ralithstill...
04:55.33Ralithwell, I guess raytracing all that grass would be a huge drain
04:55.36brlcadyeah, there is a lot of devil in the detail there too
04:55.55Ralithis still amazed by the detail of models like that one.
04:55.58brlcadevery blade of grass, every leaf, every nut bolt and wire inside the vehicle
04:56.03Ralithshame they're so hard to get released
04:56.16brlcadperforming a full global illumination simultion (via forward path tracing)
04:57.02starseekerhas idea - the earth model with the caption "Welcome to the world of open source CAD" ;-)
04:57.10brlcadheh
04:57.13Ralithgot a pic of the earth model?
04:57.26brlcadin the gallery
04:57.37Ralithoh, thought it was new
04:58.20starseekerwe could stuff in the imported Cassini probe model orbiting it
04:58.50Ralithdoesn't really show off anything new, though, does it?
04:59.01starseekernew features, you mean?
04:59.04Ralithyeah
04:59.17starseekerbrlcad:  What new features would we like to show off this year?
04:59.26Ralithhey, here's a tangental idea
04:59.59Ralithevery year, render in high quality and print at poster size something really elegant that demos all the Big New Features that can be easily shown visually
05:00.06Ralithline them up on a wall
05:00.27Ralithwould be pretty interesting to walk down the line years later
05:03.37brlcadinteresting idea
05:04.39Ralithyou'd need a long hallway to take over or something, for futureproofing
05:04.52brlcadwould be fun to host an open source model competition each year, use the winner
05:05.12Raliththat would be pretty cool, but do we have sufficient userbase?
05:05.28RalithI suppose it'd be straightforward to require the prominent display of at least one major new feature
05:05.32brlcadif there's money involved?  the users will show up :)
05:05.36Ralithhehe
05:05.47starseekerhmm - evidently, I did NOT successfully import bob's dbconcat fix
05:05.49Ralithwhere'd the money come from, though?
05:06.10brlcadis still willing to pay someone to make him a light-cycle with pure csg like the original
05:06.17Ralithlight-cycle?
05:06.20Ralithas in tron?
05:06.38brlcadindeed
05:06.54brlcadtron was almost entirely done with csg when it was made
05:06.58Ralith'the original' as in the props from the movie?
05:07.06Raliths/props/models/ then
05:07.12brlcadyeah
05:07.21Raliththat would be an interesting project...
05:07.22brlcadreverse engineer the shapes
05:07.45brlcadthere are several clips in the film that show what the primitives were
05:09.07brlcadjust have to reconstruct the locations and sizes as close as possible, that's the hard part
05:09.10Raliththose models don't look terribly complicated
05:09.25brlcadthere are a few surprises in it
05:09.30brlcada few really tricky blends
05:09.42brlcadiirc, it was a couple hundred primitives per bike
05:09.46brlcadthey have internals too
05:10.14brlcadthat are only visible for a few frames in the entire film as the bikes are constructed
05:10.45Ralithkudos to the modelers
05:11.40RalithI wonder if anyone still has the original full quality renders
05:11.44brlcadsomething that showcased all of the primitives available would be interesting .. something better than my info sheet
05:13.26Raliththe info sheet is incomplete?
05:14.22Ralithlikes the idea of a competition, if there really are enough skilled modelers to make it worthwhile, but can't imagine where funding would come from
05:14.36Ralithshort of some corporation spontaneously adopting brl-cad internally and donating large sums to the development
05:15.26brlcadat the prize monies we're talking about, finding funding isn't too hard
05:15.35Ralithhm?
05:16.00CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32216 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcNetwork.cpp pcNetwork.h): Further pcNetwork.h cleanup
05:16.27brlcadI would gladly sponsor it myself -- it's more the time/effort of running the first few to get a sustainable event, getting the right announcements out, etc
05:16.47brlcadotherwise, we might participate in GHOP next year, it's geared for exactly this
05:16.52RalithGHOP?
05:16.53Ralithgoogles
05:17.42Ralithooh
05:17.55Raliththat does sound applicable.
05:18.09brlcadit is, there was just a pilot test last year
05:18.16brlcadbut it was a success so it will likely be expanded
05:18.26Ralithalthough I think they'd want it to be less "make us a pretty model" and more "do something useful"
05:19.05brlcadwe dictate what is useful, what the tasks are
05:21.10brlcadalright, I think "shiny gsi tank" wins unless I can get srcviz up and running again
05:21.52Ralithas cool as shiny gsi tanks are, it's something brl-cad has been capable of for several years :/
05:21.57Ralithoh that reminds me
05:21.59Ralithcompletely unrelated
05:22.11Ralithat what bounce depth is sphflake in the gallery rendered?
05:22.15brlcadof course, that image is more than 10 years old now
05:22.50Ralithheh
05:22.52Ralithnow there's a thought
05:23.10Ralith"BRL-CAD: We could do this 10 years ago. Come see what we can do now."
05:25.41Ralithremembers to start the test again
05:25.43brlcadbounce depth for phong reflectivity is 5
05:25.59starseekerscowls at dbconcat
05:26.22brlcadpresume you mean this one: http://brlcad.org/gallery/s/renderings/brlcad_in_a_box.png.html  ?
05:26.24RalithXXX: Unable to test edcolor
05:26.24RalithIt probably shouldn't kick off an editor without an argument
05:26.38brlcadyep, I added that
05:26.53brlcadso it'll annoy the hell out of me and others till someone changes it
05:26.53Ralithso that's normal?
05:26.57Ralithhehe
05:27.13Ralith...rtcheck
05:27.13Ralithbu_log: write error
05:27.32brlcadthat's expected .. the ray-trace terminates before it has a chance to log
05:27.44brlcadasync race
05:27.57starseekergrowls at dbconcat, then looks at the clock and decides sanity must temporarily prevail
05:28.05Ralithbunch of 0 off by many, which sounds great
05:28.21Ralithseems to have completed without error
05:28.30brlcadexcellent
05:30.43starseekernice
05:30.53Ralithanything else to be done?
05:31.30starseekerdoes mged open and run?
05:32.03starseekerif so, generate an example model with tire -p 1, then open it with mged tire.g and try a raytrace
05:32.49Ralithkk
05:33.04starseeker(tire runs from the command line)
05:33.12Ralithyeah, got that
05:33.39starseekerOh, e tire will draw the tire
05:34.54Ralithe?
05:35.39Ralithodd abbreviation for draw
05:35.50starseekeror draw tire :-)
05:35.58Ralithalso if X is accelerated
05:36.02Ralithwhy is this rotating so laggily :|
05:36.10starseekerthe wireframe?
05:36.12Ralithyeah
05:36.21Ralithraytrace works and looks nice
05:36.26starseekertries rotating
05:36.47Ralithwell
05:36.51starseekerrotates OK for me... weird
05:36.52Raliththe ports installed opengl-y version is a bit laggy too
05:36.53Ralithso w/e
05:37.02Ralithguess it's just very complicated :P
05:37.07starseekerit is complex
05:37.21starseekeryou can try fence for another cool example
05:37.22Ralithcan only guess
05:37.25Ralithfence?
05:37.42starseekerfence will genrate a chain link fence using pipes
05:37.54starseekersince pipes got an update, it's a good one to try
05:38.02starseekershouldn't need any options
05:38.08starseekerwill give you fence.g
05:38.54Ralithworks, looks nice too
05:39.03RalithI just realized something
05:39.16starseekerThat was brlcad who created that tool :-)
05:39.21RalithI've never done the classic zoom-in-tons-and-ogle-how-smooth-everything-is renders in mged
05:39.43starseekerah :-)
05:39.55starseekerbeware a close zoom on tire - it will test your CPU
05:40.13Ralithhm, fence looks a little less elegant from an angle
05:40.21Ralithmost real chain link fences dont' use 90 degree twists :P
05:40.36brlcadyou can still saturate the rendering with too many line segments, as it shovels data through the display manager
05:40.49starseekerthere are lots of options to fence if you want to play around
05:41.01Ralithkk
05:41.11brlcadstarseeker: it doesn't use pipes.. :)
05:41.18brlcadpipes weren't done
05:41.36starseekerOh, really????
05:41.46brlcadthey are connected rcc's with sph joints
05:41.47starseekerwell, darn then
05:41.51starseekerAh
05:42.00Ralithwell, it certainly works fine.
05:42.10starseekerwell, probably faster in the end anyway
05:42.25brlcaddunno, would be an interesting comparison
05:42.35Ralithis not at all used to being able to render in really close and not see *any* mesh artifacts
05:42.58brlcadalthough the biggest gains would still be to make it instead be procedurally generated during ray-trace time -- similar to the grass shader but for geometry
05:52.02CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32217 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/libged/wdb_obj.c: doggone it dbconcat is crashing - revert and take another look at the changes to try and figure out why.
05:54.53jonoredis amused. He was spoilt by povray...
05:55.13Ralith?
05:55.45jonoredhasn't ever seen mesh artifacts on stuff he's done.
05:55.50*** join/#brlcad starseeker_ (n=CY@c-68-33-217-173.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
05:55.53starseeker_OK, fine I give up
05:56.22starseeker_hopes someday to have an ISP not hostile to ssh connections...
05:57.25jonoredstarseeker: speakeasy isn't, at least...
05:58.15brlcadstarseeker: connect through .bz -- should stay persistent
05:58.27starseeker_did
05:58.33brlcadhuh
05:58.46starseeker_why I'm thinking it's the ISP - I keep having the connection die
05:58.49brlcadoh, maybe a late night reset
05:59.03brlcadthey do that around 2-4am sometimes if they're doing maintenance
05:59.13brlcadusually comes back to life after a minute or two
05:59.16starseeker_hehe - I should get the NASA deep field and use it as a background:  http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/spacefun.png
05:59.48starseeker_probe scaled by 50000000
06:00.17Ralithjonored: povray doesn't have mesh artifacts?
06:00.32brlcadshould be able to do at scale if you turn on perspective
06:00.49brlcadmight need a wide angle
06:01.09starseeker_:-)
06:01.35starseeker_has to sleep or hit his head on the keyboard - Ralith, thanks again for your testing efforts!
06:01.39brlcadRalith: only if you're rendering meshes (for most primitives)
06:01.52Ralithoh, I thought povray was a mesh-only renderer :P
06:01.53brlcadpovray also does implicits
06:01.57Ralithimplicits?
06:02.02brlcadimplicit geometry
06:02.07Ralithnot familiar with the term
06:02.10brlcadnon-boundary representation
06:02.19Ralithstarseeker_: and again, very happy to help.
06:02.31Ralithbrlcad: I'm not very up on terminology in this field yet :/
06:02.50RalithI can guess at meanings
06:02.56Ralithbut that's about it
06:02.57brlcadnormally what you probably think of as "CSG" is "CSG operations on primitives defined via implicit mathematical equations"
06:03.07Ralithah.
06:03.14Ralithso, our kind of solids.
06:03.37brlcadyeah .. "solids" in our case generally refers to implicit geometry
06:03.42Ralithkk
06:04.06Ralithimplicit meaning, all the data says for, say, a sphere, is "it's over there and about -so- big"
06:04.10Ralith?
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06:04.22brlcadthough strictly speaking, solid just means that it (hopefully with a strict guarantee) topologically represents a closed volume
06:04.24jonoredPrecisely. Also a few i don't remember seeing here - they can do a solid based on where an expression in three variables is less than a threshold...
06:04.44brlcadsort of
06:05.03brlcadthe fact that you define *and* evaluate a sphere using just it's point and radius
06:05.10brlcadthere is no surface mesh being evaluated
06:05.17brlcadno boundary
06:05.36brlcadthere is an implicit boundary where it's solid and not solid
06:05.59pacman87implicit: x^2 + y^2 + z^2 = r^2
06:05.59pacman87explicit: x = f(u,v); y = g(u,v); z = h(u,v);
06:06.06brlcadmathematically, that's an implicit equation where you define all values > 1 as outside, < 1 as inside, and == 1 as "on the surface" for example
06:06.41brlcadwhere 1 can really be any value, but is conventionally 1 or 0 usually
06:06.54brlcadyeah, exactly what pacman87 shows ;)
06:08.15brlcadthe two approaches generally have pretty profound differences in terms of implementation, evaluation, ray-tracing, solidity guarantees, compactness of representation, performance, etc
06:10.11brlcadthat representation is at the heart of why brl-cad shows you a wireframe instead of a polygonal view -- there is no surface to visualize, you have to find/evaluate it
06:11.54RalithI'm looking forward to playing with a polygonal view.
06:12.12pacman87ev?
06:12.27Ralith?
06:12.47brlcadthat's where BREP comes into play -- it's making all primitives describe themselves in both implicit and boundary representation form .. so they can be directly evaluated and visualized, without incomplete knowledge
06:12.50Ralithyeah
06:13.11brlcadRalith: he means, try the "ev" command in mged
06:13.14brlcador "E"
06:13.40brlcadthat does/attempts the (painful) conversion
06:13.59Ralithprobably shouldn't be testing this on the tire.
06:14.04pacman87i'm afraid of writing that for revolve
06:14.21pacman87since last time was mostly a chop job on ehy's function
06:14.25Ralithkills mged
06:14.25brlcadoh hell, yeah .. tire isn't one I'd start with :)
06:15.03Ralithbrlcad: is it likely that poolio's work will be appropriate for realtime use (e.g. mouse-dragging a subtracted primitive around the edges of another to see how it looks), or would it be more something you'd grab a new mesh from every time you applied a change?
06:16.05RalithE worked on the 'cube' demo pretty well
06:16.13Ralithexcept it's still a wireframe -- just now a wireframe of the mesh :P
06:16.27brlcadRalith: because you're using X instead of ogl :)
06:16.33Ralithaw.
06:16.37brlcadthat's the one feature that ogl provides, shades it
06:16.39Ralithwait
06:16.40Ralithno I'm not
06:16.45Raliththis is the ports-supplied version
06:16.46Raliththat uses GL
06:16.48Ralithand works
06:16.59brlcado.O
06:17.05Ralithalso, there's a srs Z ordering issue
06:17.15Ralithall the spheres are drawn on top of all the bars
06:17.33Ralithit's very confusing when I'm not rotating it.
06:18.25Raliththis does not appear to be an issue in the normal wireframe, although it's harder to tell due to lower line densities
06:18.55brlcaddo you have Z clipping, lighting, and z buffer turned on?
06:19.00brlcad(on the Misc menu)
06:19.02RalithI have absolutely no idea.
06:19.13Ralithoh, that helps
06:19.45Raliththere's no lighting/z buffer
06:19.49Ralithwill verify ogl
06:19.57Ralithhm.
06:20.06Ralithoh, maybe I amusing the wrong mged after all
06:20.07brlcadtype "dm set"
06:20.09Ralithhow did that get into my path O.o
06:20.24brlcadit should say if it's dm_ogl or dm_X
06:20.37RalithI'm confused now
06:20.39Ralithit's X
06:20.45Ralithmaybe the port did disable gl
06:20.52RalithI didn't see it in the config options :/
06:21.21pacman87'attach ogl'?
06:21.53brlcadRalith: some older versions auto-disabled opengl support (because of the driver problems)
06:22.03Raliththis is 7.12.4; not exactly old.
06:22.05Ralithah well
06:22.06brlcadand some others were hard-wired to off
06:22.09Ralithguess this means we don't have to bug ``Erik
06:22.15brlcadah, hm
06:22.21brlcadthen it should have been a flag
06:22.26Ralithto configure?
06:23.05Ralithlooking at the CONFIGURE_ARGS line in the root Makefile now
06:23.10Ralithcould be set by more convoluted means I suppose
06:24.09Ralithonly line containing 'gl' is USE_GL= gl
06:24.20Ralithwhich I'm pretty sure just means it needs gl
06:24.29Ralith(despite not using it, funnily enough)
06:30.52brlcadyeah, I don't see what it's doing to turn it off
06:31.08brlcadgood question for ``Erik
06:31.31brlcadotherwise, your compile may simply have determined that opengl wasn't fully available (e.g. now dev headers)
06:31.37brlcads/now/no/
06:36.28Raliththat wouldn't make sense
06:36.37Raliththis is freebsd with all packages installed from ports; everything have dev headers
06:36.52Ralithand the prerelease build enabeled opengl by default, too
06:39.21brlcaddrools as he scrolls through the journal of graphics tools
06:39.47brlcadRalith: I understand that -- but doesn't mean it failed the test ;)
06:39.55brlcadjust means that it "shouldn't" have failed the test
06:40.25brlcadheck, could have been a typo in the configure.ac file
06:40.30brlcadare there any patches that get applied?
06:41.02brlcador can you find the config.log from your compile?
06:41.17brlcadit'll have a summary near the end that will say exactly what it intends to do
06:41.39Ralithfor which?
06:42.02brlcadhm?
06:42.10brlcadfor the brlcad port
06:50.00Ralithkk, building it
06:50.06Ralithnormally cleans out the work dir
06:50.59Ralithfrom configure:
06:50.59RalithOpenGL support .......................: yes
06:56.07brlcadthen something is indeed amiss
06:56.16brlcadperhaps your test build installed overtop the ports one
06:56.22brlcaddefault is /usr/brlcad
06:56.49brlcadand I don't see a --prefix in the ports file
06:57.28Ralithports go to /usr/local
06:57.36Ralithand I certainly didn't make install as root
06:57.39Ralithso an overwrite is impossible
06:57.50Ralithplus, I've been using the ports version safely since forever
06:58.05Ralithwhen it finishes building we'll see if mged offers opengl
07:01.17brlcadsimple check, which mged ?
07:01.24brlcadls -la /usr/brlcad
07:02.09brlcadthe 'binfo' command in bin will indicate the compilation date
07:03.01yukonbob!
07:03.05yukonbobhello, cadheads
07:03.29brlcadreading the Makefile more carefully, looks like it's configured to install into /usr/local/brlcad
07:03.38brlcadhowdy yukonbob
07:05.47Ralith<PROTECTED>
07:05.59Ralithyeah, that can't have been the prerelease build
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08:25.20Ralithbrlcad: looking at the camera code mafm's delegated to me now -- which lib was it that provides our vector?
08:28.02Ralithlibbn, lookslike
08:30.17Ralithweird -- my ports install seems to lack vmath.h
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08:31.21Ralithand even bn.h
08:36.58Ralithhm, g3d isn't set up to build with vmath.h visible
08:41.21Ralithnot sure what to do here, what with rt^3 being outside the normal source tree
08:41.24Ralithbrlcad: any tips?
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09:11.09brlcadRalith: hm, not sure I understand
09:11.28brlcadthe header isn't in /usr/local/brlcad/include or /usr/local/brlcad/include/brlcad ?
09:11.48brlcadsuspects the latter
09:14.19brlcadif that's not the case, then ports install is busted and that should get fixed next or should install manually so you know you have everything in the "usual" place (/usr/brlcad)
09:14.38Ralithoh, it's the latter
09:14.42Ralithwas not expecting redundant nesting
09:14.48brlcadnods
09:15.09brlcadthe ones in /usr/local/brlcad/include are 3rd party headers
09:15.15brlcadmakes more sense when prefix is /usr
09:15.15Raliththat makes sense.
09:15.37brlcador even /usr/local
09:15.42Ralithyeah
09:16.10Ralithbut I still don't know what to do about g3d's include paths and such
09:16.40Ralithright now, #include "brlcad/vmath.h" can't find its .h
09:16.45Ralithwhich is not surprising
09:16.51brlcadat some point somewhere in g3d's build, it has to say where brl-cad is installed
09:17.08Ralithdoes it currently?
09:18.42brlcadhistorically, we install to a given BRLCAD_ROOT which is akin to --prefix with no other --whatever-dir flags that reorganize piecewise; and with that assumption g3d should just be adding cppflags of BRLCAD_ROOT/include BRLCAD_ROOT/include/brlcad (along with ldflags)
09:19.01brlcaddon't remember what it presently does
09:19.08brlcadyou tell me :)
09:19.21Ralithso BRLCAD_ROOT is expected to be correctly set at g3d's build time?
09:19.43Ralithor wait
09:19.48Ralithcmake just needs to know the prefix somehow
09:19.49brlcadwell, *somewhere* the build needs to know
09:19.53Ralithyeah, got it now
09:20.08Ralithkeeping in mind I've never hacked cmake before...
09:20.13brlcadwhether it's a cmake flag or an env var or hard-coded into a build file, etc
09:20.36brlcadunderstands
09:21.03brlcadit's actually my first steps into cmake as well beyond web readings on the design intent, use cases, etc
09:21.13brlcadintimately familiar with the gbs
09:21.23brlcadit's a fall-back if we run into hard problems
09:23.33brlcadcmake does have several really enticing feature points though for consistent cross-platform maintenance that thses new C++ modules became a good test case (after a moderately successful go on the main brlcad module building libs and a few binaries with cmake)
09:23.59Ralithits pretty colors and % progress indicator are pretty neat too :]
09:25.21Ralithdoes brlcad define a pkgconfig thingy?
09:25.37brlcadfairly untested, but yes -- there are pkgconfig files for all of the libs
09:25.47Ralithor does the root need to be determined manually via flag/search/env
09:25.53Ralithcool
09:26.13Ralithis it acceptable to depend on that, or should I be moving this build system away from it?
09:26.26brlcadif it does the trick, why not?
09:26.39Ralithkk, great
09:26.43brlcadespecially since we can control whether it exists or not
09:26.47Raliththought I recalled you saying something to the contrary earlier
09:26.52brlcadunlike some of our external deps
09:26.57Ralithwell, we can't control whether pkg-config itself exists
09:27.09Ralithbut it's pretty damn common.
09:27.15brlcadah ah, true .. forgetting
09:27.21brlcadmacs and windows
09:27.31Ralithhm
09:27.31Ralithgood point
09:27.32brlcadgets lost in bsd thoughts
09:27.37Ralithhey!
09:27.46Raliththis is the first time I've ever actually forgotten that mac/windows exist!
09:27.47Ralith:D
09:27.56brlcadhehe
09:28.34Ralith. geekpoints++
09:29.08RalithI'll refer to BRLCAD_ROOT for now
09:29.19brlcadso I dont' know what the usual cmake approach is for testing for a dependency, but I could imagine some conditional test logic that uses pkg-config if it finds it else has options to specify where things are at
09:29.35Ralithwait a sec
09:29.47Ralithis BRLCAD_ROOT set to --prefix in the build environment?
09:29.51Ralithbecause that would be handy
09:29.55Ralithand make this reliable
09:30.05brlcadque?
09:30.18Ralithin configure
09:30.38Ralithexport BRLCAD_ROOT=whatever_the_install_prefix_is
09:30.50Raliththat way subordinate build scripts can just refer to that var
09:31.26brlcadit is set during the configure for the brlcad module as an AC_SUBST but I'm not sure how that helps you
09:31.52Raliththat doesn't mean anything to me :/
09:32.05Ralithwait
09:32.14RalithAC_SUBST exports autoconf vars to the environment right?
09:32.20brlcadno
09:32.23Ralithdamnit!
09:32.33brlcadnothing in auto* ever exports anything to the env
09:33.08Ralith...starting over then.
09:33.10brlcadeven if you had a manual export VAR=blah in configure.ac, that'd be lost when the subshell terminates
09:33.18Ralithhm :/
09:33.43brlcadnow in addition to the pkg_config files .. there is also a 'brlcad-config' script
09:33.51Ralithwait, existing subordinate builds just refer to the internal headers and libs and such, right?
09:33.53brlcadthat has the prefix saved
09:34.11Ralithscratch what I just said
09:34.18Ralithg3d will in all cases be built after brlcad is installed?
09:34.31brlcadI think that's a safe assumption
09:34.39Raliththen brlcad-config is perfect.
09:34.40Raliththanks.
09:34.49brlcadperfect for everyone except windows ;)
09:34.52Ralithwait
09:34.55Ralithit doesn't exist on windows?
09:34.56RalithO.o
09:34.59brlcadcourse to find brlcad-config .. you have to know the prefix
09:35.05brlcadit exists.. but it's a script
09:35.05Ralith...damnit.
09:35.16Ralithshell script.
09:35.19Ralithsigh.
09:35.28brlcadi mean, it could be a binary, but you still have the other problem
09:35.46brlcadcmake really just needs an option that says "the brl-cad root is HERE"
09:35.51brlcadand then go from there
09:36.00Ralithcan cmake even take options?
09:36.01brlcadotherwise stick to the env VAR for now, that works everywhere
09:36.04brlcadsure
09:36.52Ralithmakes a guess at how to do the env var bit
09:38.07Ralithhrm.
09:38.55brlcadhttp://www.cmake.org/HTML/cmake-2.6.html
09:39.18Ralithyeah, I need that
09:39.18Raliththanks
09:40.44brlcadah, looks like they control everything through vars
09:40.52brlcadthis may be a lot more informative:  http://www-flc.desy.de/ldcoptimization/documents/talks/CMake_Tutorial.pdf
09:41.53brlcadparticularly the example that hints at something like this working, cmake -DBRLCAD_ROOT=/path/to/root
09:43.09Ralithall I really need is the ability to pull data from environment variables :|
09:44.19brlcadwell, what I just said -- that should do the trick
09:44.46Ralithless effort with an env var I already leave set
09:44.48Ralithbut I suppose
09:44.55Ralithgrabs
09:45.00brlcadthen in the cmakelists.txt file somewhere you'd have INCLUDE_DIRECTORIES("${BRLCAD_ROOT}/include ${BRLCAD_ROOT}/include/brlcad")
09:45.26brlcadusing a var is just a temp measure
09:45.48brlcadfrom just a quick view through that tutorial, there are external PKG facilities that you can apparently set up
09:46.06brlcadso it could do things like have defaults, check env vars, check command-line overrides, etc
09:46.17Ralithoo
09:46.28Ralithworth my while to go through and do this elegantly at this stage?
09:50.12brlcadup to you!
09:50.34Ralithkk
09:50.50brlcadtis always a work in progress, even g3d's sources aren't where they probably belong, e.g. his general functionality that belongs in a utility lib
09:51.06Ralithhad noticed that.
09:52.05brlcadfeel free to fix it :)
09:53.26Ralithhehe
09:53.33Ralithsome of this stuff I wouldn't even have abstracted out in the first place
09:54.16brlcadhrm, I don't see vmath.h being used anywhere
09:54.19Ralithok, including vmath.h or even bu.h is raping this
09:54.23brlcadwhere did you run into that?
09:54.28RalithI'm trying to add it
09:54.33brlcadooh, got it
09:54.48brlcadwas going to ask how he dealt with i
09:54.50brlcad*it
09:55.41Ralith/usr/local/brlcad/include/brlcad/bu.h:170:58: error: tcl.h: No such file or directory
09:55.44RalithO.o
09:55.44Ralithwhat's going on here
09:55.50brlcadit needs both
09:56.01brlcad/usr/local/brlcad/include and /usr/local/brlcad/include/brlcad
09:56.04Ralithit has both
09:56.14brlcader, then
09:56.16brlcadwhat's going on there?
09:56.20brlcad:)
09:56.22Ralith:P
09:56.47brlcadoh, perhaps your install used an auto-detected tcl.h ?
09:56.55Ralithyes
09:56.58brlcadah
09:57.04Ralithtcl8.h
09:57.08Ralithinstead of tcl.h
09:57.16brlcadgdffs
09:57.19Ralithjust how did everything else build without encountering this issue
09:57.32Ralither wait wait
09:57.33Ralithmy bad
09:57.44Ralithtcl8.4/tcl.h
09:57.51brlcadthere it be
09:58.35brlcadbrlcad configure loads up the tclConfig.sh among many other optional things to locate resources and optionally toggle on/off
09:58.56brlcadsounds like another VAR
09:59.05RalithI suspect that reconstructing all that is going to be a nightmare
09:59.13brlcadat least until we finish unwiring tcl from libbu
09:59.23Raliththat will be nice :]
09:59.48brlcadthat's *after* libged is done .. because it's another huge chunk of code to refactor
10:00.24brlcadsome of it has started, but it's hella lot
10:00.48brlcadyou could forget vmath.h for now and just do what he's been doing
10:01.19RalithI'd rather not -- this will have to be done at some point
10:01.47brlcadlooks like he's using a mix of Ogre::Vector3, SimpleVector3 (CameraMode.h), and Mocha::Vector2 depending on what's being tweaked wrt the 3D graphics, the view, and the gui respectively
10:01.57Ralithyeah, that's pretty bad already :/
10:02.20Ralithalso, is there a C++ wrapper for vmath.h? If not, should there be? If so, where?
10:02.26brlcadI see the need ffor the first and third since they're what those respective APIs need
10:02.34brlcadjust doesn't need the SimpleVector3 class
10:03.00Ralithwell, so long as they're not used gratuitously
10:03.04brlcadthe new geometry engine will address having a c++ wrapper on vmath
10:03.10Ralithkk
10:03.24Ralithwill make do with C for now then
10:04.00brlcadwithout some really extensive testing/optimization, the vmath macros are exceptionally hard to beat performance-wise
10:05.23Ralithawesome
10:06.25Ralithargh
10:07.04Ralithwhat I like least about working in C++ is how the errors are almost never anything directly to do with what you're doing wrong >:|
10:11.02Ralithincluding vmath.h should be harmless assuming it can find all its needed headers and is wrapped in extern "C"
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10:16.22RalithOH! name conflict.
10:20.09Ralithoh no.
10:20.26Ralithor, hm.
10:21.25Ralithbrlcad: vmath.h line 105 conflicts with OgreMath.h line 552 in a way which does not have an immediately apparent resolution.
10:22.38brlcadhm, I bet it's both of us using X, Y, Z
10:22.44Ralithactually, it's both of us using PI
10:22.51brlcadah
10:22.56brlcadthat's deprecated in our case
10:23.26Ralithtime to follow through on that deprecation, perhaps?
10:23.36brlcadwe have a deprecation process
10:23.38Ralithaw.
10:23.46brlcadit's in the pipeline
10:24.01Ralithwonders if this might not be resolvable via reordering includes somewhere as HACKING recommends
10:24.25brlcadah, true
10:24.32Ralithah, there's the culprit.
10:24.37Ralithsmacks mafm
10:24.37brlcadvmath.h should come later
10:25.06Ralithyep
10:25.14brlcadcommon.h, system headers, external deps, our public headers, our private headers
10:25.23Ralithnods
10:25.44Raliththis was done exactly backwards -_-
10:25.57Ralithsuspects in more than one file, too
10:26.08brlcadprobably
10:26.23brlcadthinks Ralith should be committing as he finds these things.. :P
10:26.34Ralithoh right
10:26.40Ralithstill isn't in the habit of good atomic commits
10:26.58RalithI think to myself "I'm going to implement proper vectors" and then I forget to commit anything until that's done
10:27.07Ralitheven if I pause and go do ten other fixes halfway through
10:28.03brlcadand then the commit for "implemented proper vectors" ends up containing a dozen other changes that have little to nothing to do with implementing proper vectors, right? :)
10:28.11Ralithexactly.
10:29.16brlcadcommitting frequently in succint little packets was one of the first traits I learned (and appreciated) when I started getting seriously into oss development
10:29.23brlcad(many many moons ago)
10:30.03Raliththanks for the reminder
10:30.17brlcadit's a different pattern of thinking and development, one that is exceptionally "better" imnsho for most types of collaborative development where constant 1-to-many communication is critical
10:30.30brlcadjust anecdote, not a comment on you in the least :)
10:31.08Ralithnods
10:31.09RalithI quite agree
10:31.20CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r32218 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CMakeLists.txt: Proper include/link paths for BRL-CAD libraries (required, manually specified) and TCL (optional, manually specified)
10:31.48Ralithalso makes for much more interesting changelogs
10:32.12brlcadand useful
10:32.20brlcadI actually read them now
10:32.23brlcad:)
10:33.50Ralithdo interface headers go before or after local headers?
10:34.06Ralith(that is, interfaces for the implementation in the file in question)
10:35.16Ralithis systematically fixing header ordering in every single file; good thing g3d isn't too big yet,
10:36.40Ralithoh, good, that's in hacking
10:36.44Ralithdidn't remember that
10:36.57brlcadah, that list I gave was for C-style, for C++ the terms just change a little
10:37.15Raliththe list in hacking might cause problems
10:38.01Raliththe interface headers include brlcad headers
10:38.24Ralithand then the implementation might include the ogre headers
10:38.29Ralithwhich creates a conflict
10:38.49Raliththe solution is to treat interface headers like generic public headers
10:38.52Raliththis acceptable?
10:39.56Ralith(it could also be placed absolute last, for clarity, I suppose. Can't think of any reason its relative position would matter much))
10:42.16brlcaderm, the interface header is a public header
10:42.24Ralithyes
10:42.25brlcadare you reading the brlcad module's HACKING file?
10:42.27Ralithyes
10:42.40Ralithit places interface headers absolute first
10:42.44brlcadah, that single "interface" header is really for C code
10:42.54Raliththought as much
10:43.09Ralithso what's the preferred position for the C++ version?
10:43.26Ralithso far I've stick it immediately before public headers
10:43.56brlcadsounds like that'll do for now
10:44.00Ralithkk
10:44.04brlcadit really shouldn't be position dependent of course
10:44.33Ralithwell, beyond after the system headers, it doesn't matter; it's just good to have a One Place imo
10:44.41brlcadsolution being to wrap the header with an #undef of whatever conflicts, for example
10:44.57brlcadchecks on that deprecation status
10:47.47Ralithputting the #undef in the gui code seems like a hack to me
10:47.51Ralithit belongs in Ogre's code
10:49.45brlcadyeah, ogre should be checking like we do
10:51.31CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32219 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/deprecation.txt: PI was left out of the 7.12 vmath deprecation list
10:52.00Ralithtests to ensure his reordering didn't bork anything
10:52.01brlcadlooks like it can formally go away in the 7.14 release
10:52.22brlcadit passes our "minimally impacting" criteria
10:52.34Ralithyay!
10:54.12Ralithalso, a thought
10:55.03Ralithwrapping C headers in a preprocessor-conditional extern "C" seems to be common, but we don't do that
10:55.12Ralithnecessitating use of it in C++ that includes it
10:55.17CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r32220 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (20 files): Reordered #includes as recommended by HACKING
10:56.47Ralithany reason for that?
10:58.04CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32221 10/brlcad/trunk/ (doc/deprecation.txt include/vmath.h):
10:58.04CIA-23BRL-CAD: the deprecated M_SQRT_DIV2 and PI defines fit the criteria for minimally
10:58.04CIA-23BRL-CAD: impacting given their deprecation spans a minor release and they have fully
10:58.04CIA-23BRL-CAD: equivalent replacements (M_SQRT1_2 and M_PI respectively). make them now
10:58.05CIA-23BRL-CAD: obsolete.
10:59.01brlcadyeah, just that the headers hadn't been cleaned up for C++ yet -- the C headers should be fixed, not hacked around on the C++ side
10:59.08brlcadsome have, some havent'
10:59.19Ralithgot it
10:59.42brlcadif you see one missing its wrapper or some other logic in the brlcad module, go for it
10:59.49Ralithyay
10:59.59brlcadI clean them up as I run into them
11:02.05brlcadgets the munchies, and wanders off to forage for a bit
11:05.01Ralithappreciates the help
11:05.39brlcadno problemo
11:05.53brlcadand no! thank you.. :)
11:06.14brlcadyou have it building at the moment?
11:07.08brlcadhave something to compile-test, but can't test it proper here atm
11:07.19Ralith'it'?
11:07.29Ralithsomething's still triggering the conflict in g3d
11:07.34Ralithbut brlcad as a whole works
11:07.46brlcadI mean g3d
11:08.04Ralithno luck yet; this one's thrown me
11:08.22Ralithreordering fixed the first instance of the error, but the exact one recurred when cmake moved on to the next file
11:09.04Ralithoh wait.
11:09.07Ralithwups >_>
11:09.55Ralithprobably unrelated, but still wups.
11:10.04Ralithoh hey!
11:10.07Ralith32222 get
11:10.11CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r32222 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CMakeLists.txt: Fixed mangled if statement
11:10.48Ralithwell what do you know, that did it
11:10.52Ralith...for a while
11:10.58brlcadcool
11:10.59Ralithnevermind
11:11.04brlcadheh
11:11.12Ralithwas misled by the build time being nonzero after a clean
11:11.12CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32223 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Application.cxx Logger.cxx):
11:11.12CIA-23BRL-CAD: this is untested and might break the build temporarily, but re-remove the
11:11.12CIA-23BRL-CAD: blasted using namespace std lines. namespaces should be explicit unless it's on
11:11.12CIA-23BRL-CAD: an implementation only but still never with std in order to avoid a handful of
11:11.12CIA-23BRL-CAD: portability and maintenance issues.
11:11.23Ralithpalindromic commits!
11:11.49brlcadwell if you get it working, that might have just broken it, but shouldn't be anything difficult to fix .. just a missing std:: here and there
11:11.50Ralithnoticed those but didn't touch them as it wasn't a header
11:11.54Ralithyeah
11:13.05brlcadi've removed them from those exact same files before
11:13.15Ralith:|
11:13.29brlcadi think he just forgets
11:13.49Ralithprobably
11:13.59brlcadjust need to get him to have to deal with 20 other coders on a couple more platforms in order to break that habit..
11:14.05Ralithhehe
11:14.49brlcadaiight, foodage needs me
11:14.53Ralithseeya
11:14.54brlcadcheers
11:26.25CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r32224 10/rt^3/trunk/src/other/mocha/Include/Mocha/Platform.h: Disabled MSVC-specific warning removal #pragmas on non-MSVC
11:26.29Ralithgives up on fixing this tonight, considering the hour
11:26.32Ralith-> sleep
11:29.21brlcadeww :)
11:29.38brlcadfun
11:33.14Ralithat least I assumed they're MSVC
11:33.19Ralithbecause gcc has nfc what to do with them
11:33.28Ralithand I doubt anything else has errors that dumb
13:03.28starseeker_For the g3d people, here's what's happening with fonts when I build and run:  http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/g3d_font_oddness.png
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15:34.14jonored[ajaa
15:35.44jonored...oops; sorry. Failure to press modkey followed by accidental enter...
15:57.23*** join/#brlcad elmom (n=elmom@hoasnet-ff04dd00-187.dhcp.inet.fi)
16:10.07starseeker_brlcad:  I'm getting a crash on dbconcat when I apply your infinite loop check - it looks like the first comparison it's doing is to an empty prev_name and it doesn't like that somewhere along the line.
16:17.13*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@217-162-108-34.dclient.hispeed.ch)
16:25.13CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32225 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/libged/wdb_obj.c:
16:25.13CIA-23BRL-CAD: OK, restore the previous wdb_obj changes (checking for infinite looping in
16:25.13CIA-23BRL-CAD: naming) while initializing prev-name to a space char - this way the initial
16:25.14CIA-23BRL-CAD: comparison doesn't trigger a crash and a single space character is an unlikely
16:25.14CIA-23BRL-CAD: name choice for any object.
16:27.43starseeker_isn't sure if the problem appears in trunk or whether this is the "right" fix, but it does make dbconcat work again here
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16:32.20andrecastelomorning guys
16:50.41starseeker_morning
16:50.59starseeker_can't figure out how to make a good texture or bumpmap to use on a tire...
16:58.58starseeker_heh - http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/candytire.png
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18:38.04brlcadstarseeker_: okay, i'll check -- more than likely head is busted too then
19:09.14pooliobrlcad: did you ever get a chance to upload that zip?
19:09.27pooliobrlcad: my head is literally busted :P
19:14.11brlcadpoolio: yes! it's in /tmp
19:14.56brlcadstarseeker_: i'm betting bumpmap wants a bw and you're giving it a pix or vice versa
19:15.25brlcadg'morning andrecastelo
19:22.21pooliobrlcad: ah, thanks. I was planning on working a lot this weekend but I've suffered a bit of head trauma, so I'm not sure how competent my coding will be :)
19:22.58brlcado.O
19:23.05brlcaddare I ask?
19:23.07poolioI stood up into a fan :(
19:23.10brlcadhehe
19:23.23poolioHad to get 5 stitches...wasn't a very fun experience.
19:24.19brlcadand no youtube video?  misfortunes like that spread like wildfire ;)
19:25.14poolioheh, I wish. I was totally fine, no concussion, totally lucid. Just bleeding profusely.
19:25.28poolioI think a youtube video would be hilarious. I'm gonna go do it again, brb.
19:25.35brlcad:)
19:25.43brlcadhilarious for everyone *else* :)
19:28.01brlcadstarseeker_: woah, wtf .. initializing to non-empty was the problem?
19:28.21pooliohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MythBusters_(season_2)#Ceiling_Fan_Decapitation -- "Normal household fans do not have the power even to inflict serious injury while spinning at top speed—they are more likely to break first. " LIES.
19:28.51poolioHmm, well that paste got messed up. I'm going to try to unbreak the tgc code now :)
19:28.55brlcadby serious, they probably meant lethal
19:29.13poolioTrue true. It
19:29.13brlcadiirc during the show, they said it probably would mess you up pretty bad
19:29.15poolio's also wikipedia
19:29.18brlcadjust wouldn't cut your head off
19:29.31poolioWell, didn't they have it on a lawn mower engine with sharpened blades?
19:29.33brlcadand "probably" wouldn't kill you
19:29.39brlcadyeah
19:29.47poolioI remember they reused it for the cutting a sword with another sword myth
19:29.57brlcadnever liked that one
19:30.21brlcadso much slop in the experiment
19:30.33poolioYeah...they really butcher the scientific method sometimes. Damn popular media.
19:55.27pooliobrlcad: just FYI, tornado warning for you :)
19:55.41poolioI think that's the first time I've seen the emergency response system in use
19:57.02brlcadpoolio: ah, is that what all that rumbling is about :)
19:58.35pooliobrlcad: aye. I'd be careful, they did the typical get in your basement/closet/etc.. thing. I've never seen that before, even for that awful storm a few weeks ago
20:00.19pooliobrlcad: They say high probability of tornado in next 45 minutes
20:00.30pooliobrlcad: good luck :)
20:01.33brlcadit was really nasty last night for about ten minutes with huge lightening events and the momentary monsoon, car window was partially open
20:01.47poolioah yes, I drove through that storm to the hospital :)
20:01.59poolios/I drove/someone drove me
20:02.02brlcadat which point I though ... why the f* is there a big metal tip on the end of my umbrella
20:02.04poolioThe lightning was absolutely gorgeous
20:02.59brlcadstripped off his shirt instead and ran out amidst the booming happening all around within less than a mile
20:04.47pooliohaha, i'd like to see that on youtube as well
20:09.39brlcadI was actually thinking something along those lines last night
20:10.46brlcadalong with "someone is going to find me dead on monday with nothing but shorts on outside work"
20:12.25brlcadat which point I comically locked myself out of the building when the door shut .. fortunately I'd (accidentally) left my keys in my pocket
20:16.45``Erikreminds me of when I was beating on twingies door wearing jeans and a tshirt (no shoes) in snow
20:20.32Ralith``Erik: just a heads up before the next release (for the FreeBSD port); I'm not sure how common this issue is in the real world, but I'm getting a fatal X crash launching mged when opengl is used, relating to my nvidia drivers. It might be a good idea to disable that for this build, at least if the user has the nvidia drivers installed.
20:29.33Ralithstarseeker_: your font rendering issues remind me a lot of how my inkscape GUI looked after I upgraded some libs it depended on
20:29.48Ralithmaybe you've got something like that going on?
20:35.06Ralithhm, just rebuilt my inkscape and its gui still displays similar behavior
20:35.31Ralithso it's probably not a lib incompatiblity issue
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21:11.24CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32226 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/vls.c:
21:11.24CIA-23BRL-CAD: starseeker pinned down an insideous little crash where bu_vls_strcmp() was
21:11.24CIA-23BRL-CAD: crashing if the bu_vls was empty. this was due to a bug in the bu call where it
21:11.24CIA-23BRL-CAD: wasn't accounting for how bu_vls represents emptry strings (they're null strings
21:11.24CIA-23BRL-CAD: with no allocation at first). this makes sure they are at least a valid (empty)
21:11.27CIA-23BRL-CAD: string when someone asks for a comparison. also clean up and document the magic
21:11.29CIA-23BRL-CAD: constants.
21:26.21*** join/#brlcad iday (n=iday@c-68-55-215-195.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
23:54.04yukonbobloves reading commit reports...
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080803

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080803

00:02.52*** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@203.200.95.130)
00:07.39Ralithargh
00:07.50Ralithwhy the hell does ogre use Y as a template parameter
00:27.19Ralithgod I wish C had namespaces
00:32.52Ralithgives up and undefs some stuff
00:34.09Ralithbrlcad: don't suppose you know why mafm appears to have limited camera rotation around the horizontal axes to 180 degrees around the front?
00:34.41Raliththought that was a bug when he encountered it in the GUI.
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03:22.39brlcadRalith: not in the least
03:24.14Ralithhehe
03:25.07brlcadRalith: one fix for the X, Y, Z, H, etc problems might be to not provide those symbols in vmath if we're compiling c++
03:25.09Ralithwell, thanks to some #undefs I'm not far from swapping out the vector
03:25.17brlcadwouldn't solve all of the problems, but it might help some
03:25.18Raliththat seems hacky :/
03:25.25Ralithimo we shouldn't be using such generic names in the first place
03:25.41Ralithprefix BU_ on all global thingies, or something
03:25.53Ralithor wait
03:25.55Raliththis is BN_
03:26.00Ralithsame idea
03:26.05brlcadprobably, though we've gotten by this long with them (and it wasn't any easier a decade or two ago - similar defines in X)
03:26.23brlcadyeah, I've thought about it, but then it really sort of kills the point of the define
03:26.35Ralithactually
03:26.41RalithI know what the *right* solution is
03:26.42brlcadcould make it a const
03:26.47Ralitha const would work
03:27.02brlcadthat would at least prevent turning params into invalid code
03:27.05Ralithin fact, a const would solve it perfectly
03:27.14Ralithbecause all ogre's stuff is in its own namespace
03:27.19Ralithso no naming conflict if it's not a #define
03:28.17brlcadthe problem then just becomes the fact that there's (presently) no compilation unit to provide them in order to avoid symbol duplication
03:28.57brlcad(which is of course just a minor problem)
03:30.04brlcadwoah, hey hippieindamakin8 .. ltns
03:31.42Ralithuh, I don't follow
03:46.54Ralithbrlcad: what do you mean?
03:47.30Ralith(also, what I was about to say before: a C++ wrapper to libbn would nicely resolve this problem, too
03:47.33Ralith)
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17:20.23CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32227 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (5 files):
17:20.23CIA-23BRL-CAD: code cleanup, chaning the Constraint Network graph vertices and edges to
17:20.23CIA-23BRL-CAD: associate with pointers to Variables and Constraints rather than than objects
17:20.23CIA-23BRL-CAD: themselves, faciliating in simpler constraint functors as well as preventing
17:20.23CIA-23BRL-CAD: unnecessary data replication. Solver code modification to assimilate the same in
17:20.26CIA-23BRL-CAD: progress : GTSolve working, BTSolve not working. Also stage 1.5/2 :| of the
17:20.28CIA-23BRL-CAD: evaluation functor changes mentioned in 32212
18:22.53CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32228 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcSolver.h solver_test.cpp): Backtracking solver functional again
18:56.55CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32229 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcSolver.h solver_test.cpp): changing argument list of Solver functions so as to support arbitrary Network input and arbitrary solution output by not using references internally
20:06.13CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32230 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (38 files in 38 dirs): Import proper fix for dbconcat crash from trunk and revert previous workaround - dbconcat now functional.
20:16.23*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@c-71-197-213-172.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
21:00.44starseeker_make test, make benchmark and make distcheck all pass on my gentoo box
21:17.33starseeker_doggone it
21:17.56starseeker_I'm getting an error db_lookup(-n) failed: -n does not exist when I try to do primitive selectin
21:27.26brlcadmm, sounds like a fix is missing
21:27.33brlcadbob fixed that a couple weeks ago
21:27.51brlcaddon't remember which files though..
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21:29.40CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32231 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/bu_tcl.c: vmath is libbn, don't use libbn facilities in libbu
21:31.39CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32232 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/color.c: yet another good reason to move the image processing functionality out of libbu and into libbn. rewrite file to not rely on vmath.h by replicating the handful it uses directly. cleanup the style while we're at it.
21:32.39starseeker_will try to find it in the logs, but must do laundry now
21:33.36Ralithbrlcad: where are the code docs stored?
21:35.11brlcadstarseeker_: should revert 32230 on include/vmath.h for 7.12.6 -- shouldn't be obsolete until minor
21:35.19brlcadRalith: code cods for what?
21:35.26brlcadheh, docs
21:36.23RalithI'd generally assume they're all in the same place
21:36.28Ralithbut in particular, the vector stuffs
21:43.17brlcaddev docs, api docs are all over the place
21:43.44brlcadin general, the source is the documentation, with comments tied to the functionality and files they pertain to
21:43.59Ralithkk
21:44.03brlcadsome of that is on the web, big migration to doxygenify the entire api
21:44.19brlcadas well as moving the doxygen comments out of compilation units and into the public headers
21:44.39Raliththanks
21:44.43brlcadbut that's all on-going as someone gets an itch or has a need
21:45.13brlcadwelcome to help make it better ;)
21:47.12Ralithheh
22:02.57brlcadstarseeker_: wow ... should get rain to fix this next week: http://brlcad.org/gallery/s/renderings/GSI_Images/M110.png.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=0
22:04.45brlcadtwo major oops' in that image
22:06.48brlcadglad that was caught before making a poster..
22:07.22Ralithwonders what the errors are
22:11.23brlcadlook closely .. one is fearsomely easy to overlook but really glaring
22:11.43brlcadthe other is more subtle unless you know the model
22:11.50pooliothe bizarre cut through the center?
22:14.28Raliththe weird panel extending from its right hand headlight shield?
22:14.39Ralith(its right, not the camera's right)
22:14.46brlcadpoolio: yep
22:15.22brlcadlooks like a sliced portion of the image in a layer was accidentally left
22:15.50brlcadbase of the barrel
22:16.46pooliois there something wrong with the reflections underneath it?
22:17.05Ralithoh, I see tht
22:17.06Raliththat*
22:17.36brlcadpoolio: nah, the reflections are fine .. just the fact that the small rect was left there
22:17.51brlcadsmack in the middle
22:18.33brlcadintern was learning photoshop in order to remove the massive/ugly GSI logo that was plastered across the images
22:18.45brlcadthe other error is more small
22:18.48brlcadM110 isn't a tank
22:19.00brlcadit's a howitzer
22:19.40yukonbobpimp my tank
22:19.47brlcaddon't know how many times I've looked at that image and missed both of those..
22:23.05Ralithwonders how long it would take to rerender
22:23.19Ralithalso, is that panel I noticed deliberate?
22:23.30Raliththe reflections on it look funky
22:25.08yukonbobso many reflections, it's easy to miss the rectangle block... :P
22:45.07brlcadwhich panel?
22:46.42brlcadbets that same image wound render in just a minute or so on a good workstation
22:48.52brlcadthe reflections should be spot-on
23:04.57Ralith<PROTECTED>
23:04.57Ralith15:14:28 < Ralith> the weird panel extending from its right hand headlight
23:04.58Ralith<PROTECTED>
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23:36.47poolioWhat happened to MBO?
23:47.08CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r32233 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc9/libbu/libbu.vcproj: Added missing files to the msvc 9 libbu project file.
23:50.08CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r32234 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc9/libtclcad/libtclcad.vcproj: Added Added missing files to the msvc 9 libtclcad project file.
23:56.16Ralithremains unanswered
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080804

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080804

00:26.12CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32235 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (doc/deprecation.txt include/vmath.h): Revert depreciation in vmath.h per request from Sean - not due until next release.
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01:01.06brlcadwth, I go to eat dinner and *poof*
01:01.20brlcadinvestigates
02:00.04starseeker_*poof*?
02:05.52brlcadbz rebooted
02:05.58brlcadisp lost power
02:06.06brlcadbackups apparently didn't hold out long enough
02:18.06starseeker_ouch
02:18.24starseeker_goes hunting for bob's fix
02:19.30brlcadhe didn't document it directly because he didn't exactly know that he was fixing that bug at the time
02:19.40brlcadnot that his comments are so hot to start with sometimes :)
02:19.53brlcadbut I believe it had to do with argv processing on the C side in mged
02:20.12brlcador the argv processing in libb/librt/libged
02:20.27brlcadit was one of his commits though, so should narrow it some
02:26.45starseeker_not so much, unfortunately - he's had a lot of them in libged :-(
02:28.38starseeker_it wasn't you with r31536?
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02:47.15starseeker_brlcad:  Do we know if it was fixed after the dbconcat infinite loop bug?
02:49.11jonored_hellcattrav: Any reason not to just use scp or sshfs?
02:51.52jonored_suggests sshfs if you'd like a gui - it makes a directory on the local machine point to a directory on the remote one for real, rather than some odd gui thing, so everything works right with it...
02:52.12jonored_gui or not.
02:52.49jonored_...crap. Wrong channel.
03:00.09starseeker_wonders dismally if it would be faster to make bob fix it on Monday...
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03:15.53starseeker_where the heck is mged_ill defined?
03:18.54Ralithbrlcad: is there a reason vect_t is an array rather than a struct?
03:22.03poolioRalith: much easier to use that way
03:23.42Ralitheasier how?
03:24.32Ralith.x is one less character than [X], and produces no weird namespace conflicts :P
03:26.28brlcadthat's going back a really long ways but iirc it was/is part simplicity and part performance
03:28.34brlcaddifferences in the optimizer being able to efficiently prefetch based on data access, guaranteed alignment, easy stride through arrays of points/vectors/etc
03:28.41poolioRalith: I've always found the code is cleaner that way, and it's easier to iterate over
03:29.41brlcadthe namespace conflicts can be dealt with, they have been dealt with successfully for decades without it being a big problem
03:29.58Ralithah, performance.
03:30.00Ralith:|
03:30.14brlcadi'm testing the XYZ constness patch now, but it'll take a few days to run through all the regression tests to make sure even that doesn't mess with performance
03:30.19Ralithalright
03:30.20Raliththanks
03:30.30Ralithin the meantime I'll use workaround
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03:32.57starseekermuch better
03:33.22starseeker_universal backscroll helps
03:35.46starseeker_resolves to ask bob tomorrow morning - this computer compiles too slow to set up for proper trial and error testing in reasonable time
03:35.57starseeker_hopes it's not tied deeply to libged changes
03:39.33brlcadit wasn't, but you'll probably have to apply the fix by hand
03:39.48starseeker_sure
03:40.13starseeker_will be happy to once he finds the fix
03:40.40starseeker_how DOES one debug something like this?  The tcl error message is all but useless and the error never gets to the gdb level
03:41.11starseeker_mged_ill must parse somewhere into something else - grep can't find it except being called in tclscripts
03:47.25brlcadit's a pita, you sort of have to follow the code from start to finish to understand how things parse
03:47.54brlcadmged_ill is an auto-generated command, that's why you can't find it
03:48.25brlcadall of the "mged_" commands are the same as the non-prefixed -- but the tcl code calls the mged_ one
03:48.35brlcadi.e. ill == mged_ill
03:49.26brlcadthe difference being that users can override the non-prefixed command if they wanted to get some behavior
03:49.54brlcadfor example, say you wanted to make e always do the e and go into solid edit mode
03:50.30brlcadinstead of defining a new command, you could override it and still get e's behavior by having your 'e' call mged_e (then call mged_sed)
03:51.40brlcadfor debugging, you basically just have to find the callback for the ill command with is one way if called in classic mode and another if called in tclgui mode
03:53.56brlcadnamely src/mged/setup.c or src/libged|librt/wdb_obj.c
04:35.23andrecastelohey brlcad
04:35.49andrecasteloi'm cleaning the msvc9 build, adding missing files and missing dependencies and found a problem
04:36.00andrecastelolibtclcad does not build
04:36.27andrecastelothere's a problem with ged_obj.c or with win32 definitions
04:36.34andrecastelohere's the paste
04:36.36andrecastelohttp://pastebin.com/m1b97fdf0
04:41.37brlcadandrecastelo: I can't get to pastebin.com from here, can you try paste.bzflag.bz instead?
04:41.45andrecastelosure
04:42.53andrecastelohere it is: http://paste.bzflag.bz/m61eb44ca
04:44.22brlcadandrecastelo: sounds like you're missing a define in your build
04:44.52brlcadIF_WGL
04:45.39brlcadlooks like vc8 uses:  PreprocessorDefinitions="WIN32;NDEBUG;_WINDOWS;_USRDLL;TCLCAD_EXPORT_DLL;DM_WGL;TCL_THREADS=1;__win32;BRLCAD_DLL;HAVE_CONFIG_H;BRLCADBUILD;IF_WGL;IF_REMOTE;_CRT_SECURE_
04:45.43brlcadNO_WARNINGS;inline=__inline"
04:45.49andrecastelohm ok, let me see
04:46.06brlcadnot having DM_WGL and IF_WGL are what are causing that error
04:51.14andrecasteloyep, that fixed it
04:53.38andrecastelothanks, just rebuilding it, see if nothing's wrong
04:53.42andrecastelothen committing
04:55.13brlcadcool
04:58.47CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r32236 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc9/libtclcad/libtclcad.vcproj: Added missing preprocessor definitions on libtclcad.vcproj, as pointed by brlcad.
05:02.18starseeker_OK, it's somewhere between 31535 and 31772
05:07.55starseeker_looks at logs
05:11.19andrecastelois remrt needed in the windows builds?
05:14.31brlcadstarseeker_: hehe, only 200 commits? .. time for binary search? :)
05:14.40brlcador just wait a few hours
05:14.51brlcadandrecastelo: depends for what values of need
05:15.36andrecastelohm some files aren't there
05:15.37starseeker_yeah, I'm thinking the latter, but this thing is thumbing its nose at me - it's the only show-stopper issue I know of  stopping a release
05:15.40brlcadideally and eventually everything is needed from the perspective of simply wanting the release functionality to be consistent across all platforms
05:15.59andrecasteloand remrt isn't present in the msvc8 build
05:16.01brlcadwill anyone cry a tear on windows without remrt right now, probably not
05:16.25starseeker_If it's in 31629 I'm dead either way - that's a huge commit
05:16.54andrecastelohm, i'll edit brlcad.sln then
05:17.00brlcadhis commit message for it had the snippet "arg" in it if that helps.. might grep the changelog
05:20.55CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r32237 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc9/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Removed remrt from the msvc9 build.
05:21.37starseeker_31188?
05:22.07starseeker_no, too old
05:22.09starseeker_hmm
05:29.42andrecastelogood night fellows
05:29.45andrecastelocya tomorrow
05:46.59brlcadcya andrecastelo
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08:33.26brlcadsighs at all the e-mail
08:37.46Ralithheh
08:47.24CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32238 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/g-dxf.c: include godbey's comments on what is going on in main for g-dxf (not verified)
08:47.43CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32239 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/dxf-g.c: header comment
08:54.13CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32240 10/brlcad/trunk/ (26 files in 5 dirs):
08:54.13CIA-23BRL-CAD: Crowd wave time! Bring the new INTAVAL converter (tgf-g) into the default fold
08:54.13CIA-23BRL-CAD: for compilation/installation since the legalities and copyright issues have been
08:54.14CIA-23BRL-CAD: sorted out. need to update our docs to reflect the granted rights (i.e. that
08:54.14CIA-23BRL-CAD: they are in no way giving up any rights on their ability to hold copyright or
08:54.16CIA-23BRL-CAD: make changes to the code on their end) but since it conforms, we can add it to
08:54.18CIA-23BRL-CAD: the default compile now. excellentness.
08:56.43Ralithwhat's this INTAVAL thing that's so cool?
08:57.55brlcadwhat's most cool about it is that it was developed by our V/L modeling developer counterparts over in Germany and the Netherlands
08:58.20RalithV/L?
08:58.45brlcadone of the reasons we went open source, encourage exactly this sort of collaboration and contributions .. and that's a substantial one
08:58.55brlcadVulnerability/Lethality
08:59.03brlcadgov't parlance
08:59.08brlcad~spell parlance
08:59.47Ralithnice!
08:59.48brlcadi.e. devs over in those countries that do nearly the same thing .. perfect case for new devs that can work on brl-cad
09:00.16brlcadthe contribution itself is a new geometry converter
09:00.45brlcadintaval is a geometry file format by her royal majesty's government (england)
09:02.47Ralithseems these days BRL-CAD's impressive in its conversion abilities alone
09:06.27brlcadnods
09:06.49brlcadmaking all the converters into a general library would be a great project for someone
09:07.04brlcadabout as close as it gets for making an open source universal geometry converter
09:07.20brlcadala image magik's 'convert' but for geometry
09:15.49Ralithwhich is quite something.
09:16.42Ralithit's interesting that we're getting contributions from other governments
09:17.18Raliththough I suppose if you could get open sourcing all of BRL-CAD ok'd here, that doesn't really compare.
09:18.42RalithI wonder if such contributions might eventually elevate BRL-CAD to industry standard for what it does best.
10:57.04CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32241 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/java/geometryService/: Framework for the Java Prototype
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11:16.05CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32242 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/java/geometryService/src/ (5 files in 5 dirs):
11:24.43CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32243 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/java/geometryService/ (.classpath .project):
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12:53.26starseeker_"Increase av size to account for the optionial argument." maybe that's it?
12:55.58brlcaddon't think so but mebbie
12:56.13brlcadi talked to him about it
12:56.23brlcadhe'll see if he can dig up the change
12:59.01starseeker_thanks :-)
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14:34.18jonored_...oh. No tab completion in classic mode?
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15:25.51CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32244 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/mged/chgview.c: Add in fix for illumination bug when doing primitive editing - r31737
15:58.44CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32245 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Port tire to windows.
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16:05.18CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32246 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Port tire to windows.
16:08.58CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32247 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/java/stractNet/docs/ (stractNet.eap stractNet2.eap):
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16:12.29CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32248 10/brlcad/trunk/ (12 files in 4 dirs): Added fracture, prefix, quat, regdef, view and ypr to libged.
16:13.47CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32249 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/libged/libged.vcproj: Added fracture, prefix, quat, regdef, view and ypr to libged.
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17:16.47starseekerjeez sourceforge is slow today
17:17.28CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32250 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Merge Bob's changes from trunk to add tire to the Windows build.
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18:22.14CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32251 10/brlcad/trunk/ (11 files in 3 dirs): Enable E, nirt and qray
18:45.12CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32252 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/java/stractNet/docs/stractNet.eap:
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19:35.33CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32253 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Added project for the tire command.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080805

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080805

01:09.19*** join/#brlcad ad7op (n=400d0922@bz.bzflag.bz)
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04:12.51CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32254 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ChangeLog: Update Changelog again
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07:08.47CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32255 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: added some files to be consistent with Makefile.am
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10:50.23mafmhey there
11:02.12CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32256 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcSolver.h solver_test.cpp): removing using namespace boost
11:30.05brlcadhowdy mafm
11:59.37CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32257 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcPCSet.cpp pcPCSet.h pcSolver.h solver_test.cpp): Adding a generic PCSolver to take care of non-binary constraints as well taking data directly from the PCSet without using the graph structures
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12:08.26mafmbrlcad: what's the logic behind including headers' order, from the HACKING file?
12:13.57mafmif you include system headers before your code's headers, your headers are not autocontained
12:14.41mafmsay, if you need std::vector in a header, you might not put it but still works in your code
12:15.09mafmbut then brokes when somebody wants to include the header in a new implementation file, and forgets to include what the header needs
12:24.41brlcadmafm: portability/overridability
12:24.55brlcad"you might not put it" would be an error in that header
12:24.59brlcads/header/source/
12:25.08brlcadeach file should include what it needs
12:26.02brlcadthe ordering ensure consistent inclusion across platforms and allows you to globally (and consistently) override or account for system peculiarities
12:34.15brlcadit also helps identify/fix cyclic header dependencies because it's really hard to keep them in the prescribed order if the interfaces form a cycle (which is generally a bad design)
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13:18.21mac-HI THERE
13:18.25mac-sorry for caps :)
13:18.50mac-i wish to install BRL-CAD on my slackware Linux
13:19.00mac-there is sense to compile it ?
13:21.03starseekersure, that should work fine
13:21.55mac-but i`m looking now on download page from sourceforge
13:21.56starseekerThe binary should be OK if you just want to try it out, but the compile is pretty straightforward if you want to build it yourself
13:22.17mac-and there is only 64 bit version precompiled
13:22.24mac-when I`m working on IA32
13:22.25mac-:/
13:22.43starseekerAh, yes - for the most recent one that's true
13:22.52starseeker7.10.4 has 32 bit versions
13:23.40mac-I`m working on AMD Athlon 750 MHz with 768 MB ECC RAM and SCSI 10k disks it is enough ?
13:23.53starseekersure
13:24.01starseekerplenty ;-)
13:24.20starseekerBRL-CAD has historically run on just about everything, from a VAX on up to a supercomputer
13:24.37mac-i wish to draw robot`s effector
13:24.43mac-:>
13:25.09starseekereffector?
13:25.12mac-there is module for motion simulation like on Deassault Systemes Catia ?
13:25.26starseekerour motion tools are pretty limited at the moment
13:25.50mac-effector is an robot working tool at the and of robot arm
13:25.51mac-:>
13:26.15mac-but there is tool for motion simulation ?
13:26.51mac-i know that Catia is very experienced software on this area
13:26.55starseekerI guess you could start here:  http://brlcad.org/OLD/reports/tr-313/index.html
13:27.17starseekerI've never used them myself, so I'm not really qualified to comment
13:27.34mafmbrlcad: what I told there it was only a simple problems, but there are more complex scenarios; like including RBGui header (external non-system header) which includes things that make that some .c/xx files have to include system headers before other local headers, or not
13:28.09mafmbrlcad: but well, it was just for curiosity seeing what Ralith has done, it's about the same for me -- just that I was "fixing" them in the other direction recently
13:28.47mac-i`m student of mechanical engeenerig
13:28.52mac-engeneering
13:29.11mac-then i wish to define trajectories of elements motions
13:29.59mac-it will be very syntetic but should work proper for my requirements
13:30.01mac-:)
13:34.57mac-hmm, 24 MB of bz2 sources file, and it is complete BRL-CAD with all features ?
13:34.58brlcadmafm: that's a failure of encapsulation in the rbgui header then, which can be accounted for by having an rbgui wrapper private header that includes common, system-that-rbgui-needs, rbgui header
13:35.16brlcador fixing rbgui's files
13:36.37brlcadthe problem is there regardless
13:37.18brlcadmac-: what else would you expect?
13:38.31brlcadcatia has more than 1k developers and a 5-figure per-seat license fee (USD/EUR) so keep that in mind :P
13:39.00mac-and is written in VisualBasic :P
13:40.49mafmoh, that explains why it's so expensive
13:40.58mac-:>
13:41.16mac-do you worked on Catia ?
13:41.27mac-did you work on Catia?*
13:47.57mafm(not me)
13:50.20mac-catia is very 'heavy' software
13:51.09mac-I`ve installed it on my slackware unser wine, and moreover it started but can`t work :P
13:51.37pacman87mac-: i run slackware too, and i compiled from source
13:52.11mafmpacman87: he's talking about a software called Catia, not BRL-CAD :D
13:52.40pacman87i was responding more to the scrollback than the latest comment
13:56.34mac-uhm, on which hardware and how long it taken ?
13:57.01pacman87p4, 2.8ghz, 30-40 minutes
13:57.14mac-and how big binaries are ?
13:59.04mac-it will take about 3hrs to compile :)
13:59.10mac-on  my machine
13:59.11pacman87/usr/brlcad is 317MB
13:59.24mac-it`s quite big after compile :)
13:59.37pacman87my svn checkout directory is 997MB
14:07.21PrezKennedyi should try compiling it on my wimpy centos box
14:11.47mac-:)
14:11.53mac-You are engeeners ?
14:12.20pacman87i'm a ME major/EE minor at UT, class of '09
14:13.17mac-what kond of constructions You are drwaing on BRL ?
14:13.30PrezKennedyim an IT major, class of someday :)
14:14.01brlcadmac-: why would I work on catia?  did they make it open source recently? :)
14:14.14mac-heh
14:14.17brlcadI just know a couple of their devs
14:14.36brlcads/know/have met/ .. not like we chum out every week
14:15.34PrezKennedybrlcad, you going to siggraph?
14:15.35brlcadPrezKennedy: you should do something about that 'someday' :)
14:15.39brlcadabsolutely
14:18.07PrezKennedybrlcad, i will, work is going to pay for it
14:18.40brlcadpaying for it isn't the hardest part .. it's doing the work and finsihing :)
14:19.39PrezKennedyyeah there is that too
14:24.52PrezKennedybrlcad, ive got the motivation and i know where i want to go with it now... didnt have that before :)
14:25.06mac-oh, there is any rewuirement i.e. OpenGL graphic adapter or something ?
14:25.21mac-I have Matrox MGA G200
14:29.22brlcadmac-: nope
14:31.00mac-gr8 :)
14:45.11Axman6wow, been a long time since i've seen anyone use that
14:50.40mac-what ?
14:50.42mac-G200 ?
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16:10.06starseekermac-:  You should be fine to compile and run it
16:10.06starseekerjust remember that it's not intuitive for beginners - you will NEED to read the docs
16:10.09brlcadwee, fun
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16:50.14brlcadinitial testing of using constant integers for X, Y, Z, etc seems to give about a 40% decrease in performance (at least on unoptimized) .. testing at least one other platform and optimized
16:51.12brlcadsupposes that is more intended for Ralith who is not here
16:51.47prasad_i wont be able to make it to siggraph :(
16:53.51brlcadprasad_: ahh, shame
16:54.29brlcadI'm sure the girls will cry when I tell them you couldn't be there
16:57.04mafmbrlcad: why Ralith? I can't see traces of those changes in the diffs
16:57.24brlcadmafm: it was a discussion we were having a few days ago
16:58.31brlcadthe changes weren't committed
16:58.37brlcad(*gasp* -- changes to the core ray-trace or numerics library that might affect performance shouldn't be committed without testing)
16:59.28mafmah OK
16:59.37brlcadit's come up before, so it was worth testing out to see what the impact would be like .. alas it looks like what we do is for a very good reason (and should probably be documented as such)
17:00.06brlcadit's the kind of thing you don't remember 10 years later, no matter how intuitive it seems 'today'
17:04.37brlcadneeds faster computers
17:05.52prasad_indeed :(
17:06.14prasad_but we'll prolly unveil gfx on iphone/mobile there
17:06.17mafmwhat do you use instead of const int? macros/straight numbers?
17:06.55brlcadyes
17:07.34brlcadI'm expecting optimized to do much better, but how much better is the question
17:14.09starseekerbrlcad:  What was the name of that FB variable again?
17:17.38mafmhmm
17:17.52mafmI thought that the compiler would treat const int as a macro
17:18.04brlcadstarseeker: FB_FILE ?
17:18.35starseekerIs that the remote display one?
17:18.38starseekerthat wasn't working?
17:18.47brlcadwell yes and no
17:19.02brlcadFB_FILE is simply an alternative to using the -F option with all the tools
17:19.23brlcadit's having an FB_FILE or a -F using the remote interface that seems bused
17:20.12brlcadrt -Flocalhost:0 or rt -Fbzflag.bz:/dev/X:0, etc
17:20.21brlcadfbhelp
17:23.38starseekerhmm - confirmed, it didn't like the remote addy
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17:25.49starseekerinteresting - the pkg_open printing shows the name of the target host minus one character
17:26.33starseekere.g. pkg_open(machin,remotefb): unknown service instead of pkg_open(machine,remotefb): unknown service
17:32.48starseekerprods CIA
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18:26.08mafmbrlcad: did you talk anything with Ralith about modifying the CMakeFile to include BRL-CAD root?
18:26.38mafmor the TCL includes?
18:27.08mafmI wouldn't think of any reason why TCL/TK would be necessary for this project
18:31.04homovulgarishowdy mafm :)
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18:35.46mafmhi homovulgaris, everything all right?
18:36.40homovulgaris:)
18:39.07homovulgarispretty much
18:39.39homovulgarismy broadband has now a maximum limit of 512 kbps.. what is broad about that :|
18:40.55mafmI could live with less than that, if bills were smaller :)
18:44.03starseekeror if there were less free software to upgrade regularly ;-)
18:44.34mafmnope, I rarely update
18:45.25homovulgarislooking at an apt-get dist-upgrade size of 1289 MB right now
18:45.50starseekerheh - easier when you don't use Gentoo
18:46.03starseeker's distro downloads the sources for everything and compiles - somewhat bigger
18:46.41mafmoh, sure
18:46.45mafmDebian ftw :P
18:47.04starseekerNah, I like knowing everything is self consistent ;-)
18:47.15mafmI use unstable but don't update unless it's necessary feature-wise, or I'm bored and not in the middle of important projects
18:49.51starseekerIf I were to use a binary distro though, it would be Debian or Ubuntu
18:51.17mafmand Debian is pretty consistent
18:51.33mafmint random { return 4; }
18:51.35mafm:)
18:51.48mafmrandom()* even
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18:58.14homovulgarisibot says i have a message awaiting from brlcad .. how do i read ? :| irc noob
19:02.42mafmread 1, maybe
19:03.45mafmhave to go now, see you later folks
19:03.48homovulgaris:) nope
19:03.55homovulgarisand :P
19:03.58homovulgaris~read
19:03.59ibotACTION reads Lord of the rings
19:04.22homovulgarisciao mafm
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19:57.15pacman87~botmail
19:57.41pacman87~botmail read
19:57.53pacman87homovulgaris: ^^
19:58.47homovulgaris:) grr..
19:58.54homovulgaris~botmail read
19:59.28homovulgarishmm.. that was 7d 9hours ago
20:02.42CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32263 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: Add note about possibility of level of detail based wireframe drawing.
20:02.50starseekerhugs CIA-23
20:03.16homovulgariswhy is cia.vc having so much trouble these days
20:03.36starseekernot sure.  It is a complex chain to keep up
20:03.37CIA-23hugs starseeker
22:03.09CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32264 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (15 files): renaming PCSet to VCSet for Variable-Constraint set since it is precisely what VCSet is, also necessary for adding a Parameter abstraction over the Variables . A vector is a collection of 3 variables for instance
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23:03.17brlcadstarseeker: ah, then you might have found the bug -- an off-by-one on the string processing
23:08.22brlcadstarseeker: yep
23:08.43brlcadthey're good as-is if the docs are all updated/committed
23:08.57brlcaddon't forget to tag it at that point
23:09.12starseeker_Right - tag it in the branch?
23:09.41brlcadsvn's idea of a tag is just a dir-to-dir cp
23:09.58brlcadbut yeah, cp/tagging off the branch dir to the tags dir
23:10.06starseeker_got it
23:15.44CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32265 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/librender/Makefile.am: uses vmath.h so link libbn
23:16.08CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32266 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/Makefile.am: uses vmath.h so link libbn
23:17.15CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32267 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/convert.c: doesn't need/use vmath.h
23:18.13CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32268 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/Makefile.am: uses vmath.h so link libbn
23:53.57starseeker_brlcad:  Did you want to back something out of mged before I tag?
23:54.08brlcadah, yes
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080806

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080806

00:08.44brlcadlooks like the optimizer does do much better, but there is still about a 5% slowdown to use vars
00:09.58brlcad4.1% to be more precise on this particular configuration (linux, ia64, gcc4.1.2)
00:10.29brlcadconsistent enough to be significant, so it looks like that change is a no-go
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00:14.03brlcadstarseeker_: the changelog is moderately useless as-is .. how about just including all changes since r30789
00:19.34starseeker_ok
00:20.03brlcadmaybe up to where you branched, then your branch commits
00:20.35starseeker_sure, not a problem
00:21.02brlcadbetter to have too much than too little for it to be useful
00:21.09starseeker_:-)
00:21.45brlcadi know some projects just include their entire project changelog .. that'd be hilarious
00:22.17starseeker_hehe - we'd probably noticeably increase the file size of the tarball
00:22.37brlcadalso, don't know if there is an option -- see if it can be in reverse chrono order
00:22.47starseeker_mans svn2cl
00:23.33brlcadso newest is on top
00:23.44brlcadif not, no biggie
00:23.46starseeker_Hmm, maybe reverse the r args?
00:23.51starseeker_tries
00:24.08brlcadgood idea :)
00:32.37starseeker_bingo
00:32.45starseeker_now the other half...
00:37.07CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32269 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ChangeLog: Add more informative version of Changelog
00:37.13starseeker_brlcad:  OK, give that a look-see
00:39.59starseeker_wonders if parse_file in if_remote.c could use a little regex love
00:47.09CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32270 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: implement mged globbing so that it matches tcl's globbing interface (so glob_compat_mode can die). there's already all the pieces in place that would need this, though they don't presently behave.
00:47.56brlcadstarseeker_: more than likely, it's a bu_ call that is off-by-one
00:48.02starseeker_brlcad:  my money is on it getting broken in r30030
00:50.09starseeker_looking at the history, it was changed from strcpy -> strncpy -> bu_strcpy
00:50.35brlcadit's almost guaranteed related to that change
00:50.46starseeker_should it have been bu_strncpy?
00:51.16starseeker_er bu_strlcpy
00:51.21starseeker_was was was used
00:51.37starseeker_not bu_strcpy
00:51.59starseeker_can't test any changes to that locally, but at least it's a place to look
00:52.07starseeker_should we try to get that fix into 7.12.6?
00:52.34brlcadsure
00:53.11starseeker_<grin> OK, what's one more? ;-)  I'll take a stab at it tomorrow.
00:53.57brlcadif you can't find it, then forget it
00:54.12starseeker_k
00:54.20starseeker_would be kind of a nice turnaround though :-)
00:54.50starseeker_is thinking a few judicious bu_log outputs should tell the tale
00:55.06starseeker_Is there a strncpy analog in libbu?
00:55.33brlcadbu_strlcpy
00:55.39starseeker_heh
00:55.55starseeker_OK.
00:56.15brlcadreading it now -- it's probably  in this: http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_remote.c?r1=30030&r2=30029&pathrev=30030
00:56.35starseeker_though so too
00:56.59starseeker_line 208 looks most relevant
00:57.22starseeker_or possibly 217
01:00.20starseeker_Wait - after 217, the prefix[colon-rest] = '\0'; was removed - was that intentional?
01:00.47starseeker_bu_strlcpy takes care of the \0?
01:01.59brlcadstrlcpy guarantees a null-termination
01:02.12brlcadthat was part of why that change was made across the board
01:02.19brlcadhundreds of calls
01:08.55starseeker_How come line 208 didn't have one before the change?
01:10.52starseeker_itches to replace this with regex ;-)
01:19.17brlcadthat's just part of the nature of using strcpy, strcat, strncpy, strncat
01:19.43brlcadsome code would null-terminate, some wouldn't (relying on the null in the string being copied)
01:19.56brlcadother issues happen if you hit the end of a buffer
01:20.15brlcadit's a common way to have a security flaw
01:20.43brlcadthe semantics on strlcpy() are much better, hence the change
01:21.08brlcadbut it's behavior isn't 100% identical of course (otherwise what would be the point), so you have to review every use case by case
01:21.52brlcadwhich was done.. took several painstaking days of reviewing, but some slipped through
01:26.16CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32271 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_remote.c: pointer arithmetic string length fun. strlcpy copy size includes the null terminator, so have to +1
01:26.22brlcadthat should be it, give it a test
01:26.33starseeker_will do - thanks!
01:26.43starseeker_is impressed :-)
01:27.03brlcadmissed it because the arith operator was smashed in .. was reading it as a var
01:27.15starseeker_Ah
01:29.36starseeker_would have been mucking around with bu_log for half an hour ;-)
01:30.19brlcadnods
01:30.25brlcadyou'll have plenty of other opportunities ;)
01:30.35starseeker_<grin>
01:32.38brlcadfwiw, what's going on there is that it splits the string based on ':' using strchr() -- strctr returns a char* to the place in the string where the : is at, so if you subtrace the colon string from the input string, you get the length of the input up to the : since it's linear memory
01:34.04starseeker_nods
01:34.39brlcadso e.g. input is "hello:tommy" at address 0x00000001, strchr will return char* to address 0x00000006 (":tommy") .. subtract the two pointers and you get 5 ..
01:34.53brlcadwhich is wrong for strlcpy since it will copy n-1 characters and then null-terminate the result
01:34.59brlcadso it copies 4 and null terminates
01:35.07brlcadhell
01:35.23starseeker_?
01:35.28brlcad"hell" :)
01:35.35starseeker_Ah :-)
01:35.46starseeker_thought brlcad was cussing out a report or a bug
01:36.01brlcadreturns you to your regularly scheduled release programming
01:36.26starseeker_and as a result, all remote connections fail (and even ones where localhost:0 is supplied, which should be a test case)
01:36.55starseeker_returns brlcad to his regularly scheduled stressful stuff
01:36.57brlcadi should review that mega-diff yet one more time to see if there are any more smashed-variables that I glossed over as a var
01:37.10starseeker_<wince>
01:39.09starseeker_heh - I guess I have been CIA spamming of late.  Well, that should be pretty much done now
01:39.24yukonbobhello, cadheads :)
01:39.33starseeker_heya yukonbob
01:39.38brlcadhowdy yukonbob
01:39.56yukonbobwhat's shaking, friendly neighbourhood h4x0rs?
01:40.10starseeker_on the brink of release :-) :-)
01:40.23yukonbobmmmm... release
01:40.44yukonbobneeds to get his completely "unstable" system stable-ish -- I've been away too long
01:40.58yukonbob*sniff* :~(
01:41.01brlcadyukonbob: and not coding for too long ;)
01:41.17brlcadcode code type type
01:41.53starseeker_dem bugs they need afixin
01:41.58yukonbobgah -- you know it -- I think I've contributed less than 20lines total (of code, not docs), but I'd sure love to really get into it...
01:42.26yukonboboh
01:42.29yukonbobspeaking of which
01:42.34brlcadstarseeker_: so the last change is the 'binary' command
01:42.44brlcadi need to rename it once again
01:42.47yukonbobhave either of you (or any other listeners) heard of the "reprap" machine
01:42.47yukonbob?
01:42.52starseeker_binary command...
01:42.55starseeker_greps logs
01:43.03starseeker_oh, a new change?
01:43.04brlcadyukonbob: absolutely
01:43.10yukonbob...nice
01:43.11brlcada few of their guys are/were in here from time to time
01:43.25yukonbobwants to build one, and set it up w/ brlcad
01:43.32brlcadyou should!
01:43.44brlcadwants an m35
01:43.58brlcadstarseeker_: it was 'dbbinary'
01:44.03starseeker_ah
01:44.04yukonbobour .stl support is good?
01:44.05brlcadrelated to the _DENSITIES
01:44.19starseeker_brlcad:  It needs to be dbbinary again?
01:44.20brlcadyukonbob: pretty good
01:44.20yukonbobbelieves it takes .stl
01:44.24brlcadit's an utterly horrible format
01:44.36brlcadstarseeker_: I hate 'dbbinary' as a name
01:44.55brlcadit's so ambiguous
01:44.55starseeker_ah
01:45.05brlcadand misleading
01:45.25brlcadis it supposed to make my .g binary? I thought it was already binary
01:45.34starseeker_nods
01:45.39jonoredgrins, and needs to get started on his machine.
01:46.16brlcadand what does it have to do with dbconcat?  if dbconcat concatenates a db, then surely dbbinary binarifies a db
01:46.50starseeker_makes sense.  What's the proposed replacement?
01:47.06brlcad'binary' was merely a compromise, it was familiar with the old and removed the db confusion
01:47.11brlcadbut that conflicts with tcl
01:47.30starseeker_mmm
01:47.44jonoredyukonbob: I've actually been doing a bit towards just going from a .g to g-code for a reprap...
01:48.34brlcadso i'm thinking of changing it either back to dbbinary (ugh) or to either a generalized 'import' or 'data' command
01:48.51brlcadjonored: that would be awesome
01:49.00brlcada g-gcode converter
01:49.48jonorednot nearly enough to be ready, and currently messing around with perl because I've been having trouble getting stuff to compile cleanly, but trying.
01:50.16brlcadjonored: try the STABLE branch instead of head -- that should compile fine
01:50.42brlcador post the compilation problems -- they should be fixed
01:50.47yukonbobjonored: nice -- are you strictly playing w/ software, or do you have the hardware, too?
01:50.47brlcads/be/get/
01:51.55brlcadstarseeker_: thoughts?
01:51.58brlcad(or others)
01:52.28starseeker_importdata ?
01:52.38jonoredbrlcad: I'm not convinced that any of them weren't from grabbing an ebuild from gentoo's scientific overlay, and messing with it a bit to try to get it to build a newer version...
01:52.40yukonbobbrlcad -- what is the function of this to-be-named command?
01:52.42starseeker_I agree dbbinary isn't so hot
01:53.19jonoredEspecially because the weird thing with configure eating my processor for an hour or two didn't happen when I did it manually...
01:53.21brlcadyukonbob: it's a command that is presently used to marshall files into and out of your .g
01:53.36brlcade.g. you can use it to shove an msword .doc into the .g
01:53.47starseeker_<wince>
01:53.49brlcador more usefully, use it to import terrain data or texture files as objects
01:54.02brlcadthat can then be used without needing the external files
01:54.02yukonbobthat's one place to shove a .doc
01:54.34brlcadand in the case of the g_qa command, it is used to import a material properties table (text file)
01:54.46starseeker_wonders when someone will stuff a pdf documenting the model into the model, then request a command to open it
01:55.02jonoredyukonbob: I haven't quite gotten to the point of getting the hardware on an undergraduate's budget yet ;)
01:55.12brlcadwhy not? :)
01:55.36yukonbobgive up beer for a month...
01:56.51jonoredbah, I don't drink much, certainly not beer...
01:57.01starseeker_hmm - well, the name is right now
01:57.10yukonbobis tossing around command-names like "jam" "slurp"
01:57.25starseeker_anything special needed to make fbhelp -F localhost:/dev/X work?
01:58.17yukonbob"stow"?
01:59.53starseeker_pkg_open(localhost,remotefb): unknown service
01:59.53starseeker_pkg_open: client connect: errno=111
01:59.53starseeker_rem_open: can't connect to remotefb server on host "localhost".
01:59.53starseeker_fb_open: can't open device "localhost:/dev/X", ret=-4.
01:59.53starseeker_fbhelp: Can't open frame buffer
01:59.56starseeker_grr
02:00.25yukonbobjonored: get a friend to give up beer for a month and give you the money? :)
02:00.53yukonbobtell them you'll craft them a custom bong...
02:01.37yukonbobis taking uni stereotypes too far...
02:02.08CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32272 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/src/libfb/if_remote.c: Adjust libfb string copying - may be related to problem with remote FB display.
02:02.10jonoredyukonbob: I'm more likely to go for finding cheap motors somehow and getting the friend with the laser cutter in his apartment to cut parts out on it...
02:02.31starseeker_wonders what those power bills are like...
02:03.14jonoredHe's not gotten it all the way set up yet. Probably smaller power bills than buying laser cutter time, though...
02:03.34starseeker_can the apartment building handle it?
02:04.49yukonbob"hitch"?
02:04.59brlcadstarseeker_: yeah, there has to be an /etc/services entry for remotefb
02:05.09starseeker_ah
02:06.01brlcadremotefb     5558/tcp       # BRL-CAD remote frame buffer
02:06.21jonoredHopefully. It's not a hugely powerful one, won't do even thin metal... He says he's expecting it to be able to do up to about a half-inch of acrylic.
02:06.42brlcadand then /etc/inetd.conf needs: remotefb stream tcp     nowait  nobody  /usr/brlcad/bin/fbserv       fbserv
02:06.44jonoredgoes and sees if he can find a power rating for the beastie somewhere.
02:07.44starseeker_hmm - gentoo doesn't have /etc/inetd.conf
02:08.17jonoredstarseeker: I'd expect that to depend on which inetd you use...
02:09.36starseeker_hmm xinetd has some stuff here...
02:10.24starseeker_will try at work tomorrow - a rebuild will be needed after brlcad picks the new name for dbbinary anyway
02:10.46jonored...dbblob?
02:10.48starseeker_brlcad:  I'll vote for something other than *binary - do you have a hard preference there?
02:11.14jonoredsees "blob" used to refer to that sort of chuck-a-binary-thing-in a lot...
02:11.17brlcadstarseeker_: some newer linux use xinetd, so an /etc/xinet.d/fbserv file
02:14.59yukonbobalso has "alien" in mind, referencing putting an "alien" file into the .g...
02:15.42brlcadcould live with an sqlishy 'blob' command
02:16.18starseeker_adddata?
02:16.27yukonbobheh
02:16.31yukonboblol
02:16.44yukonbobwhat a mouthful... just a funny word.. not laughing at the suggestion.
02:16.49brlcadnnno? :)
02:16.55yukonbobsounds like gattaca
02:17.20starseeker_would prefer something slightly more descriptive than "blob"...
02:17.20yukonbobis still laughing...
02:17.25brlcadpresently, it is used to both import and export
02:17.36brlcadso if the name implies just one, there has to be a matching for export
02:17.46starseeker_would that be bad?
02:17.57brlcadno
02:18.11starseeker_would intuitively expect that, come to think of it
02:18.37brlcadthat's actually why I was leaning towards import/export .. could make it a generalized command to import/export anything
02:19.10starseeker_likes that
02:19.16starseeker_far more intuitive
02:19.32yukonbob...though an OO-type command with sub-commands is kinda nice, too -- esp. if the noun + verb are the same...
02:19.49brlcade.g., import/export another .g file (maybe replaces dbconcat/keep)
02:20.10starseeker_base it on the file type?
02:20.12yukonbobsaves looking for the "un" "de" "anti" etc version of one command
02:20.49starseeker_heh - is "io" taken?
02:22.14brlcadblob import file.doc mydoc or blob -i uc file.doc mydoc, etc
02:22.39starseeker_blob just sounds so... undignified
02:22.52starseeker_ah, well - I must admit I have also seen it in this context
02:23.05brlcaddata import mydoc file.doc
02:23.13starseeker_:-)
02:23.58jonoredIsn't it something along the lines of "binary large object"?
02:24.00starseeker_yes, I like that - but if it's going to also replace dbconcat, shouldn't it wait til after the release?
02:24.12CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32273 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
02:24.12CIA-23BRL-CAD: fixed a bug that caused remote framebuffers (specified via -F or FB_FILE) to
02:24.12CIA-23BRL-CAD: fail. this bug was reported (in person) by r.lai and v.cericole after
02:24.12CIA-23BRL-CAD: encountered during ray-trace tests. fortunately, you could work around the
02:24.12CIA-23BRL-CAD: problem by using DISPLAY, but this should fix it.
02:24.50brlcadyes, I'm just thinking where to go for the right fix
02:25.09brlcadfor release, might just revert to dbbinary :(
02:25.15starseeker_fair enough
02:25.30starseeker_like the generic "data" command
02:25.33brlcadright now it's:  binary -i u c _DENSITIES filename
02:25.43starseeker_ick
02:25.51yukonbob"data" has no "personality"
02:26.08yukonbobcould be anything...
02:26.18starseeker_what about having g_qa and rtweight and whoever else needs it ask for a filename if _DENSITIES isn't found?
02:26.41yukonboblike "blob" -- besides, the objects don't need to be blobs, do they?
02:27.22brlcadstarseeker_: those commands have no support for (or expectation of) user-provided interactive input
02:27.42brlcadand it's not deterministic behavior
02:27.51brlcadit does check for the file now, it could bitch better
02:28.32brlcadyukonbob: right now, they all get imported into the .g file as a "binary object"
02:29.03yukonbobmmm. But that's an implementation detail to the user of the command...
02:29.17brlcadall it knows is the type of data -- e.g. it's an array of unsigned characters or an array of short integers or an array of floating point integers, etc
02:29.23brlcadsure
02:29.31jonoredhellcattrav: you want ">"... "ipconfig > ip_address.txt"
02:29.39jonored...wrong channel.
02:29.57brlcad~nickometer hellcattrav
02:30.05starseeker_brlcad:  I suppose - I like the idea of using the context of the command to avoid needing to specify something like _DENSITIES manually, but it could be a problem if interactive behavior is a no-no"
02:30.10yukonbob..and you want  /etc/passwd, not ip_address.txt
02:30.25brlcadhehe
02:30.27starseeker_lol
02:30.48jonoredhides in shame.
02:31.02starseeker_could have the "blob" or "data" command look in the file for a optional target object name?
02:31.16brlcadstarseeker_: I could see mged or a gui prompting after checking for the file, the command-line commands are (all?) non-interactive though
02:31.26starseeker_OK.
02:32.02brlcadand I agree, _DENSITIES needs to die
02:32.30brlcadmore to the point, it should be better integrated, a hidden detail at best if it's an object, but not a binary_obj
02:32.39starseeker_nods
02:32.55brlcadmaybe make it official attributes on _GLOBAL if we have to
02:33.00yukonbobmatryoshka <-- russian stacking doll
02:33.29starseeker_I can see multiple density objects, and specifying an rtweight calculation with different ones to compare density tables, but that's more a debugging feature than anything - theoretically most densities have a "right" answer
02:33.40yukonbob"borg", for assimilation...
02:33.49starseeker_hehe
02:33.50yukonbobborg in myfile.txt myfile
02:33.59yukonbobborg out myfile myfile.txt
02:34.11yukonbobhrmm...
02:34.28yukonbob"Hey -- borg that .doc into the db and let's ship!"
02:34.38starseeker_likes it better as the univeral *->g converter - "resistance is futile, your CAD file will be assimilated"
02:35.37starseeker_should get chores done and sleep...
02:38.02brlcadactually "bo in myfile.txt myfile" or "bo -i u c myfile.txt myfile" was one of the ideas I've been considering
02:38.39brlcadmakes a mental note to do laundry before leaving so he actualy has clothes to wear
02:39.24yukonbobstephen colbert last night: "Hey America, I wear the pants in this relationship. [glances down] Most of the time."
02:42.06yukonbobis feeling that his colourful names are getting traction ;)
02:42.57starseeker_doesn't want to have to answer the question "so why did you call this command "blob" again?"
02:43.45brlcadyeah, I'd lean away from blob -- though for different reasons
02:44.00yukonbobthinks blob is too generic; sees starseeker_'s POV re: attrativeness, but mostly doesn't like it because it could apply to so many diff't aspects of BRL-CAD
02:44.23brlcadwith sql, blob types are "untyped" data that you don't know much about
02:44.31brlcadwith us, we know what they are
02:44.35brlcadto some extent
02:45.08brlcadand if we get to adding mime-types and handlers, we could deal with them -- bring in a pdf, display it, etc
02:45.36yukonbobstill likes "alien" or similar...
02:45.51yukonbob"visitor" -- anybody remember that TV show "V"?
02:45.58brlcaddata is generic enough that it's borderline on too generic, but still would do the trick as would import/export
02:46.01yukonbobwasn't allowed to watch it :P
02:46.13brlcadbo is quirky brief like most of our commands and directly pertains to what it is/does
02:46.31brlcadyukonbob: yeah.. vaguely :)
02:46.32yukonbobkinda likes 'bo' for it's Unix-yness
02:46.33starseeker_nods
02:46.59yukonbobassumes it's for _B_inary _O_bject
02:47.04brlcadyep
02:47.06jonoredsuggests that blobs usually are mostly unknown only to the database software, not the app using it, but likes bo better.
02:47.59brlcadmm.. so perhaps bo ftw for now
02:48.07brlcaddissenters?!
02:48.14yukonbobbeau
02:48.27brlcad(burn them!)
02:48.35yukonbob:)
02:48.42yukonbobraises glass of OJ to "bo"
02:48.43jonored...bob?
02:48.55yukonbobheh
02:48.58brlcadmged so needs a 'bob' command
02:48.58jonoredducks.
02:49.14brlcadi'm just not sure what it'd do :)
02:49.22yukonbobduck and weave.
02:50.08brlcadcould make it randomly pick a command and alias it to some other random command
02:50.24yukonbobawesome...
02:50.39brlcadnotes that the name of the dev that has written most of mged is named 'bob'
02:50.47yukonbob"and from around the lab, one would occasionally hear 'fscking bob!'"
02:51.00brlcadhas heard that :)
02:51.13brlcad(in good fun usually)
02:51.26yukonbob"usually"
02:51.27yukonbob:)
02:51.36brlcadbob rocks
02:52.19yukonbobis this the bob that I still see commit msgs from in here?
02:52.23yukonbob*Bob
02:52.25brlcadoooh, 'bob' could increase the font size +1 each time you run it
02:52.41yukonbobon that note, we need better font handling in mged.
02:52.44brlcadhe likes big fonts
02:52.55brlcadyeah, same bob
02:53.12yukonbobhad a script that he'd source/run to fix the fonts when he was more regularly running BRL-CAD
02:53.39brlcadyou know you could set the fonts, then run "update/create .mgedrc" on the File menu, no? ;)
02:54.04brlcadthat should say "Save Preferences"
02:54.25yukonbobnever thinks of the menu :P -- I'll keep in mind, though :)
02:54.39brlcadthere's a font panel on the menu
02:54.44brlcadhow were you changing the fonts? :)
02:55.06yukonbobintrospection, creating a default tag, adjusting tag :P
02:55.22yukonbob"tag" is wrong word, but I don't have a manual handy, nor script.
02:56.44yukonbobsomething like font create foo "*-*-*-helvetica-10-l-whatever", and then adjusting appropriate items to use this font... then can update the "foo" and everything that was using it would be automagically updated.
03:04.31brlcadheh
03:06.08brlcadlooks like using const int's for the indicese on ia32 is a 4-8% hit for both optimized and unoptimized
03:06.27brlcaddeletes the patch and associated changes
03:06.40yukonbobexpensive
03:17.09starseeker_brlcad:  Do you want me to implement the binary -> bo change tomorrow?
03:19.49brlcadstarseeker_: I'm almost done
03:19.56starseeker_ah :-
03:20.02starseeker_)
03:21.07starseeker_starts - cat jumped on back of chair
03:21.16starseeker_she's never done that before, at least not with my chair
03:21.27starseeker_we must be feeding her wheaties
03:22.16brlcadever put a piece of tape on her back?
03:22.26starseeker_no
03:22.46starseeker_it'd be a tossup as to whether the cat or the boss would kill me first
03:23.09brlcad:)
03:23.31yukonbobtape sounds like fun...
03:23.38starseeker_she has however (of her own accord) jumped into the washer/dryer when it was warm after clothes were removed
03:23.41yukonbobis "cat sitting" two cats atm.
03:23.45starseeker_needs to get a picture of that...
03:24.21starseeker_is actually allergic to cats, but after a few months with an initial anti-allergy assist tolerance seems to be building
03:24.53brlcadthinks the news section could use some wordsmithing .. it doesn't say much different than the bullets
03:25.01starseeker_yukonbob:  TWO cats?
03:25.03brlcadyeah, i'm somewhat allergic myself
03:25.04starseeker_how do they get along?
03:25.12yukonbobnods
03:25.21yukonbob<- not a cat fan.
03:25.31starseeker_brlcad:  please!  I didn't know quite what to do with that part
03:25.39brlcadit was the first thing I discovered I was ever allergic to (at the age of 20 or so)
03:25.44starseeker_!
03:25.57brlcadaside from poison ivy that is.. :)
03:25.58starseeker_found out he didn't get along with various pollens early on...
03:26.02starseeker_hehe
03:27.09brlcadstayed with a buddy down in georgia.. the small apartment had this viscious cat that controlled the domain and whose smell, fur, and dander permeated every inch of the place
03:27.22starseeker_ick
03:27.35brlcadit would like under a chair and take swipes at anyone passing by (drawing blood)
03:27.48starseeker_oh, lovely
03:28.01starseeker_never ran into one quite that bad
03:28.13brlcadI mean it was a normal 'cat place' .. but first I'd slept/lived in extensively with a cat that couldn't go outdoors
03:29.12starseeker_looks at previous NEWS entries and tries again...
03:29.12brlcadtook me several weeks to realize why I woke up every morning feeling utterly miserable, thought it was a cold, but then I'd get better after I left the house going to the gym, to work, dinner, etc
03:29.37starseeker_nods
03:29.46starseeker_that's nasty
03:31.20brlcadstarseeker_: think of it like you're explaining what all those bullets mean to someone who maybe knows very little about BRL-CAD specifically, or that doesn't want to follow all the bullet items and wants the big picture
03:31.37brlcadplus it's a good place to put the "why" and "what does this mean"
03:41.49starseeker_brlcad:  Were you actually able to test the fbhelp option?  I didn't get it working here yet
03:46.53CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32274 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/NEWS: First try at tweaking NEWS wording
03:47.30brlcadof course not :)
03:47.38starseeker_heh
03:47.52brlcadrather, I'm "able" .. but I didn't
04:14.13PrezKennedynever had too much doubt when im allergic to something
04:15.29PrezKennedya day at a place with a cat and id probably need to be hospitalized
04:15.31PrezKennedy:P
04:34.06CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32275 10/brlcad/trunk/ (11 files in 8 dirs):
04:34.06CIA-23BRL-CAD: after some discussions on the channel, rename the 'binary' command in mge to the
04:34.06CIA-23BRL-CAD: 'bo' command (for binary object). this was done due to the fact that Tcl
04:34.07CIA-23BRL-CAD: already has a 'binary' command and ours ends up masking it - a cnflict that
04:34.07CIA-23BRL-CAD: mysteriously didn't surface during early 8.5 testing but is still there. this
04:34.09CIA-23BRL-CAD: relates to tom browders sf bug 1532699 that prompted th initial change. other
04:34.11CIA-23BRL-CAD: options considered: import/export, data, blob, borg, dbblob, adddata, ...
04:53.31CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32276 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/bottest.c: put semicolons so it indents correctly
05:13.31*** join/#brlcad jonored (n=jonored@dsl092-076-134.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
05:14.24starseeker_growls at the merge tools for Linux
05:14.39starseeker_'course, perhaps I shouldn't be at subversion 1.5 just yet...
05:15.52CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32277 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (10 files in 8 dirs): (log message trimmed)
05:15.52CIA-23BRL-CAD: sync with r32275 changes on trunk. after some discussions on the channel,
05:15.52CIA-23BRL-CAD: rename the 'binary' command in mge to the 'bo' command (for binary object).
05:15.52CIA-23BRL-CAD: this was done due to the fact that Tcl already has a 'binary' command and ours
05:15.52CIA-23BRL-CAD: ends up masking it - a cnflict that mysteriously didn't surface during early 8.5
05:15.56CIA-23BRL-CAD: testing but is still there. this relates to tom browders sf bug 1532699 that
05:15.58CIA-23BRL-CAD: prompted th initial change. other options considered: import/export, data, blob,
05:16.10starseeker_heh - thanks :-)
05:16.32starseeker_decides to see what subcommander is like...
05:17.16brlcaduntested :)
05:17.35starseeker_brlcad:  No worries - I'll put it through one more cycle tomorrow
05:17.45starseeker_and test bo
05:17.59brlcadmake test will test bo
05:18.07starseeker_cool
05:18.23brlcadmake sure the mged create menu works though
05:18.35starseeker_k
06:04.43*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@c-71-197-213-172.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
06:15.53brlcadhowdy Ralith
06:16.22brlcadi finished testing the const int replacement, it was definitely a no-go ..
06:16.37brlcadanywhere from 4 to 40% performance hit, even on optimized
06:16.56brlcadbut I think I have something that should be a suitable fix in the works now
06:17.17Ralith:/
06:17.22Ralithalright; what're you thinking?
06:17.56brlcadbasically adding a switch that turns them off (rather, hides them)
06:18.25Raliththere's always const _X_ = X; #undef X \n const X = _X;
06:18.38brlcadthat you define, akin to _POSIX_C_SOURCE and similar defines
06:18.40Ralitha switch where?
06:18.46Ralithah.
06:19.15Raliththat's not necessarily helpful
06:19.19Ralithall the vmath macros depend on them
06:19.34Ralithso I'm left doing very ugly and space-consuming operations everywhere
06:19.53brlcadhuh?
06:20.02Ralithe.g. VSETALL
06:20.12Ralithdoesn't work without X, Y, Z defined or set somehow
06:20.33brlcadi'm talking about a switch that changes that...
06:20.38Ralithooh!
06:20.46brlcadwhat did you think I meant??
06:20.58Ralitha switch that just disabled the definition of X, Y, and Z
06:21.11brlcadno, the macros obviously still have to work
06:21.19brlcadotherwise it's a broken header
06:22.40Ralithyeah.
06:23.26Raliththat'll do well enough, although the usage still seems pretty inelegant compared to your standard C++ fare.
06:25.21brlcadi'll take efficiency over elegancy in this situation :)
06:26.17Ralithstill wonders if there's no way to hack a struct on top of the array data
06:26.49Ralithusing a C++ class would induce overhead, wouldn't it?
06:27.15brlcadyep
06:27.19brlcadquite a lot actually
06:27.25Ralithsuspected that.
06:27.26Ralith>:|
06:27.38Ralithstupid performance sensitivity.
06:28.09brlcadsubtle too, doens't show up easily on a profile (e.g. gprof) since it's distributed unless you observe overall time or use a sampling profiler (maybe)
06:28.40Ralithif you've got the time to explain, how does it induce the overhead?
06:28.46brlcadit's hard to get much faster than directly accessing memory in order marching through memory
06:30.12Ralithah.
06:30.25Ralithso not so much a case of extra overhead as a case of comparison to absolutely no overhead.
06:30.31brlcada struct is an interesting one -- a really good compiler optimization "should/could" make that a fairly minimal approach except that there are memory alignment issues based on how an array of structs can be packed into memory, how individual elements are positioned, alignment paddings, compilation settings
06:30.53Ralithdepending on compiler features is silly, anyway.
06:31.43brlcadthere are egregious overheads you can have with OO vector math classes that often go unnoticed, like implicit data copying, vtable dereferencing, pointer dereferencing, etc (for various naive implementations)
06:32.46Ralitha real shame, given all the wonderful syntax that OO impls allow.
06:32.48brlcadit's actually somewhat non-trivial to make a c++ vector/matrix class that is optimal
06:33.35brlcaddoesn't mean we can't use it or make one, just means have to be pretty careful about it and that still doesn't mean the C code shouldn't be as tight as possible :)
06:33.42Ralithyeah
06:34.27Ralithstill, even a simple naive implementation that wraps and can convert to the C one might be really nice to keep performance-insensitive code like the new GUI clean and elegant.
06:36.20mac-re
06:36.56mac-starseeker_: i suppose that, in the past i`ve compiled several programs and i`m familiar with problems during this
07:05.48*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:26.43brlcadgets back to his task at hand
07:45.18*** join/#brlcad smurfette (n=Pandora@c-69-243-244-154.hsd1.mo.comcast.net)
08:07.58*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
08:08.44CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32278 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ (11 files in 10 dirs): revive the CMake build (brlcad.dll)
08:54.18*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5B14C460.dip.t-dialin.net)
09:05.50*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
09:19.54brlcadarf
09:20.05Ralitharf indeed!
09:21.07brlcadRalith: what timezone are you in?
09:21.54Ralithpacific
09:21.59brlcadheh, nice
09:22.07brlcadwoots on the night owl
09:22.58Ralitho/
09:23.02Ralithcoding isn't coding if it's not done after midnight
09:23.47brlcad=)
10:48.46CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32279 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/java/stractNet/docs/stractNet.eap:
10:54.44archivist_ubfresh svn checkout on ubuntu what have I missed or what dependency is missing from configure http://pastebin.ca/1093661
11:00.41CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32280 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/java/geometryService/src/geometryService/subsystems/GED.java:
11:04.00*** join/#brlcad mac`u (i=mac@linux.slackware.in)
11:04.03mac`ure :)
11:18.05*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
11:19.05mafmhi
11:19.36Ralithhey
11:20.32mafmwhat's up Ralith?
11:20.56Ralithidling around
11:21.18brlcadhowdy mafm
11:21.18Ralithg3d switch to libbn vectors is almost ready, pending some updates from brlcad
11:21.26Ralithalso
11:21.31RalithI've been meaning to ask you, mafm
11:21.44Ralithwhy do you limit vertical camera rotation?
11:22.38mafmwhen you switch from almost-top to top-post (and same with bottom), the camera makes a strange turn
11:23.10brlcadsounds like a bug :)
11:23.13Ralithso force roll to a more reasonable value?
11:23.24mafmnot really, it's because of the mathematical ecuations
11:23.32mafmafaik
11:23.35Ralithstrange turns can be overriddent
11:23.39Ralithoverridden*
11:23.45RalithI'll see if I can do so
11:23.55mafmyes, they should, I just did a quick fix
11:24.15mafmprobably you only have to change the sign of the vertical rotation or something like that
11:24.37Ralithkk
11:24.49Ralithwas hesitant to play with it cuz I thought it might have been a conscious UI decision
11:24.52RalithI'm no UI designer
11:25.20mafmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_coordinates#Definition
11:25.38mafm0 ? ? ? ?
11:25.46mafm0 ? ? < 2?
11:25.57Ralithspherical coords are used? O.o
11:26.03Raliththat's very strange.
11:26.54mafmit's the easier way that it ocurred to me :)
11:27.27Ralithnever thought I'd hear spherical coords referred to as easy.
11:28.27mafmwell, I started implementing orbital mode
11:28.36mafmwhich is continuous, not in discrete steps
11:29.10mafmso while you maintain a key pressed, the amount of rotation goes up of down, in horizontal or vertical
11:29.18Ralithyeah, I played with that
11:29.19Ralithwas neat
11:29.30mafmand zoom changes the ratio
11:29.42Ralithratio of what?
11:29.49mafmradius*
11:29.53Ralithah.
11:29.56mafmso the camera is basically in a point of the sphere looking to the center
11:30.12Ralithkk
11:30.23RalithI've *really* gotta get some sleep now
11:30.27Raliththanks for the explanations
11:30.30mafmsoo... that's why I thought that it would be the more natural way to implement it :)
11:30.35mafmoki, see you around ;)
11:30.55Ralithconceptually simple, but doesn't strike me as mathematically straightforward.
11:30.58Ralithseeya.
11:31.21brlcadcya Ralith
11:31.27Ralith'nite
11:34.22mafmfeels a math nerd for the 1st time :D
11:35.07archivist_ubthats one thing I shall never be
11:36.49mafmI usually failed tests in math, although I like them in general
11:39.30archivist_ubI can program and use maths, but useless at generating the equations
11:43.55mafmheh
11:44.05mafmwell, I think that I never did that either
12:15.42CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32281 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/stractNet/ (106 files in 2 dirs): Phase 1 of code conversion effort.
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13:17.09mafmall hail network admins!
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13:54.02CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32282 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (Makefile.am TODO pcParameter.cpp pcParameter.h): Adding skeleton files for Parameter classa abstraction over the Variables
14:01.27CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32283 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/ (11 files):
14:08.08CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32284 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/wiki/ (. index.html): Library addition for GeometryService
14:12.15CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32285 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/tools/ (13 files in 3 dirs):
14:14.04CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32286 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/tools/release/ (6 files):
14:14.57CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32287 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Mods for automatically setting the version for asc2g.vcproj and brlcad.nsi
14:17.25mafmbrlcad: do you conceive any possible use of Tcl/Tk in g3d?
14:18.25CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32288 10/brlcad/trunk/src/external/ProEngineer/win32-msvc8/: This was mistakenly added with other mods.
14:18.42brlcadmafm: yes
14:18.53brlcadnot for the near-term though
14:19.10brlcadother than as a requirement to link against the geometry engine libs
14:19.36brlcadbut eventually, the ability to plug in and switch between scripting engines (ala script-fu) is in the plan
14:20.03mafmI just mean because ralith included some new things in the CMakeFile
14:20.24brlcadso as a scripter, you could use any of the common interactive shells as your scripting interface (posix sh, tclsh, maybe others)
14:20.25mafmand I don't know if the TCL/TK part should be there or not
14:21.01brlcadI believe that was to be able to link/use the brl-cad geometry libs
14:21.24brlcadthey have bits of tcl integrated, so the dep gets carried forward
14:21.33brlcadtk shouldn't be needed
14:21.35brlcadjust tcl
14:22.58mafmI see
14:23.06mafmI'll leave them then
14:27.32mafmanother thing... I am creating the widget but I'm having a few problems, and I don't think that I'm doing very complicate things compared to what we're going to do
14:36.46CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32289 10/rt^3/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): IsRegion() is const throw()
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14:47.48brlcad"the widget"?
14:47.51brlcadwhat widget? :)
14:48.24brlcadpresume you mean something customized in the gui? .. it's more proof of concept to evaluate rbgui
14:48.35brlcadif it's really hard, that's a huge negative on the toolkit
14:48.58brlcadsince we do have some rather complicated things that we'll want to be able to do
14:49.48mafmI can get things painted, but not all of them
14:49.57mafmsome rectangles work, some others don't
14:50.10mafmlines don't seem to work
14:50.58mafmand the text has that problem sometimes of drawing also all glyphs
14:51.16mafmI guess that the library is a bit undertested
15:00.23mafmsooo I'm now trying to compose a radial control via drawing rectangles of 1 pixel :)
15:00.48mafmit would be easy to manage if the widget would use 10 textures depending on the progress, though
15:32.39CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32290 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/tools/regression/ (11 files in 2 dirs): Library addition for GeometryService
15:33.58CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32291 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/tools/regression/xsl_reports/xsl/ (39 files in 5 dirs): Library addition for GeometryService
15:34.48CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32292 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/tools/regression/xsl_reports/utils/ (14 files): Library addition for GeometryService
15:36.06CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32293 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/tools/regression/xsl_reports/test/ (10 files):
15:37.37CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32294 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/tools/regression/test/ (43 files in 12 dirs): Library addition for GeometryService
15:39.47*** join/#brlcad mas3773 (n=mas3773@75-13-4-215.lightspeed.kscyks.sbcglobal.net)
15:41.14CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32295 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/tools/regression/ (31 files in 5 dirs): Library addition for GeometryService
15:45.01CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32296 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/boost/ (178 files in 25 dirs): boost update and additional files for using shared_ptr and indirect_iterator
15:47.10mas3773before I put in a bug report, I wanted to make sure it's not something on my end... Anyone want to check it out?
15:49.54mas3773I put up a copy of the terminal at http://dirtykdx.is-a-geek.net/files/brlcad_bug.txt this is from the command line only interface [mged -c choosing the null output]
15:50.19mas3773basically a tra gives a mged_players error
15:50.27*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5B14C460.dip.t-dialin.net)
15:53.30CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32297 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/tools/quickbook/ (36 files in 7 dirs):
15:58.24CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32298 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/tools/quickbook/ (80 files in 13 dirs): Library addition for GeometryService
16:08.45CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32299 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/tools/ (25 files in 3 dirs): Library addition for GeometryService
16:10.27CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32300 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/tools/jam/ (24 files in 3 dirs): Library addition for GeometryService
16:16.51CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32301 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/tools/jam/src/ (96 files): Library addition for GeometryService
16:45.14CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32302 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/tools/jam/src/ (202 files in 9 dirs):
16:59.26*** join/#brlcad starseek1r (n=starseek@bz.bzflag.bz)
17:02.31starseekerthere we go
17:08.16*** join/#brlcad starseek1r (n=starseek@bz.bzflag.bz)
17:29.35CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32303 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/rtcheck.c: Fixed argument to bu_vls_printf.
17:53.50CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32304 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (Makefile.am NOTES pcMathVM.h solver_test.cpp): beginning work on Math Virtual Machine for evaluation of arbitrary expressions, would be useful only in the case of explicit constraints
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18:05.27starseekerexit
18:05.29starseekerquit
18:06.36starseekerheh opps
18:15.22mafmbrlcad: would be a slider enough? :)
18:31.03CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32305 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ypr.c: Fixed typo.
18:37.17CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32306 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/inside.c: Mods reflecting a signature change of rt_arb_calc_planes
18:45.16CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32307 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: wdb_binary_cmd has changed to wdb_bo_cmd
18:57.13archivist_ub<PROTECTED>
19:12.53CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32308 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraMode.cxx CameraMode.h): Adding methods to retrieve the relative rotations, so (in example) they can be shown in windows
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19:21.08brlshi there anyone can consult on mater command?
19:26.12brlsmater command enyone?
19:26.50archivist_ubbasicly in IRC just ask the real question
19:28.33brlshi there anyone can consult on mater command for BRL-CAD?
19:29.31brlsusing mater to specify plastic as a material, how I can specify wood for e.g or metal etc and render to see the sructure ?
19:30.29mafmhave to go, bye
19:32.11CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32309 10/rt^3/trunk/data/g3d/RBGui/themes/brlcad_camera_rotation.png: Change icon appearance
19:44.51CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32310 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/java/stractNet/docs/stractNet.eap: EA Update.
19:51.00brlsso much for the tech discussion ..see you all
19:52.01archivist_ubirc is not instant!
19:56.08*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5B14C460.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:06.52CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32311 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 4 dirs): Added edcodes, rcodes, wcodes and which_shader to libged.
20:45.12brlcadarchivist_ub: you expect anything more from cgi:irc? :)
20:45.51archivist_ubwho me was a comment about brls
20:46.22archivist_ubbut you could look a few lines above :)
20:46.33archivist_ubthen you see my question
20:50.23brlcadi'm referring to brls
20:50.45brlcadhe was on a cgi:irc connection
20:51.39brlcadtend to be the worst offenders of impatience, bad irc netiquette, not ~ask'ing, and overall just being annoying
20:51.48archivist_ubheh
20:52.06archivist_ubI see a few in #mysql
20:52.55brlcadand just about when I'm ready to take the web interface down, someone shows up who is a normal joe and the cgi:irc helped get them into the channel to figure out their next step
20:54.19archivist_ubactually had a face to face IRC moment on sunday, volunteer steam engine driving and someone aske was I a volunteer, yes, he then berated me for a single word reply!
20:54.30archivist_ubasked
20:54.55brlcadthen you say..
20:55.00brlcadok, how about "no" then
20:55.08archivist_ubhehe
20:58.53archivist_ubanyway what rule builds libitk.la
21:03.48brlcadbrlcad/src/other/incrTcl/Makefile.am
21:05.12archivist_ubI assume there's a missing dependency so its not built yet
21:07.28*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@c-71-197-213-172.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
21:08.51archivist_ubhmm its there
21:18.48*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@h-72-245-122-226.mclnva23.covad.net)
21:34.09archivist_ubit wasnt there and Makefile.am depends on  WITH_X11 being set and this has XORG so some digging , will have to wait as its home time
22:19.18brlcadarchivist_ub: check the summary block near the bottom of config.log and see if a) x11 support is enabled and b) whether itcl and itk are enabled and c) whether tcl and tk are enabled or off -- it could be some problem mixing some system tcl-stuff with some built tcl-stuff
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080807

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080807

01:24.26*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
01:42.44starseekergrowls in frustration at STABLE - might just nuke and reload again
01:42.49brlcad:)
01:45.01starseeker"why are you SKIPPING files I just told you to MERGE??  whadaya mean PROPFIND failed???"
01:55.18yukonbobhello, cadheads
02:05.37starseekerwhoa - did sourceforge just change their site?
02:07.58brlcadhowdy yukonbob
02:08.01brlcadstarseeker: howso?
02:08.06brlcadit changed a couple days ago
02:08.14starseekerorange theme, different look
02:08.27starseekerhuh, guess I didn't notice
02:08.28starseekerick
02:08.51brlcadi never go to the main page
02:09.01brlcadbut yeah, that was announced a couple days ago
02:09.06brlcad1-2 days
02:09.12starseekerah
02:10.30brlcadheh, looks like it's set up for iphone use
02:10.41brlcadkinda silly on a big browser window
02:10.47starseekerno kidding
02:11.15starseekerdeems this change for the sake of change
02:15.53CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32312 10/brlcad/tags/rel-7-12-6/: Tag 7.12.6 release
02:16.00starseekerWell at least that worked
02:16.08starseekerglares at STABLE
02:17.09starseekerfudge, missed the bo command update in the Changelog
03:24.37CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32313 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/: Updating STABLE isn't going well - wipe it out in prep to move in new copy
03:25.43CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32314 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/: Copy 7.12.6 release to become new STABLE branch
03:26.06starseekerthe svn nuclear option
04:04.21*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=timothy@71.170.63.120)
04:06.35pacman87su
04:06.53Ralithsu: Permission denied
04:07.17pacman87no, you're supposed to do a /nick Password, and then say ' '
04:08.53pacman87anyway, i lost power a while back, and when i rebooted, my gfx card fan was really noisy, so i pulled it out to try to fix it.  when i put it back in, it didn't work.  i finally got it working again, but it's still quite loud
04:09.19pacman87and now my intel gfx died on me so i have to reboot again...
04:21.17*** join/#brlcad homovulgaris (n=d@117.196.138.171)
04:23.39homovulgarisbrlcad: i see that boost 1.35 is being added as a part of geometry service into rt3. Should we be keeping two copies. I mean the src/other/boost is not the complete package ofcourse. But if it is better either of us can remove the 'unnecessary?' double storage ?
04:27.48brlcadhomovulgaris: howdy, haven't sync'd up with you in a while!
04:29.03homovulgaris:)
04:29.12brlcadsure, makes sense regarding eliminating the double storage -- how would you propose going about that?
04:29.13homovulgarislots of action in the group lately.. :)
04:29.26brlcadoh yeah
04:29.27*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=timothy@71.170.63.120)
04:29.30brlcadmy mailbox floweth over
04:29.40brlcadtis good stuff
04:29.42homovulgarisI mean if Geometry Service needs boost they can use the one in src/other
04:29.58brlcadyeah, I think that at least is the plan
04:30.32brlcadjust maybe a little premature since it's just now finally getting off of one guy's own repository/machine and finally getting syncd
04:30.33homovulgarisI won't be able to use the rt3/.. one right .
04:30.39brlcadright
04:30.41homovulgarisok.
04:30.47brlcadthat direction doesn't make sense
04:30.56brlcadrt^3 can use brlcad though
04:31.06brlcadjust a matter of how to sort that out exactly wrt the build system
04:31.20homovulgarisI am going ahead with passing data structures for implicit constraints rather than expressions as per ur comments
04:31.42brlcadRalith started cleaning some of that up, moving towards being able to specify where the BRLCAD_ROOT is at
04:31.58brlcadwhich then in theory should either have boost or have a means to point to where boost is at
04:32.27brlcadi saw your updated comments, did what I wrote make sense?
04:32.29homovulgarisyeah i had some trouble when i compiled rt3 2 days back.. regarding BRLCAD_ROOT
04:33.48homovulgarisit made a lot of sense. I wasnt planning on using expressions for implicit constraints. But for explicit ones I guess expression parsing is inevitable. I started a bit of work on a Math VM for evaluating expressions.
04:34.30homovulgarishttp://www.lyx.org/~leeming/yac/ I mostly want to do something like this
04:34.42brlcadwhen you say "using expressions" do you mean "using string expressions"?
04:34.51*** join/#brlcad pacman88 (n=timothy@71.170.63.120)
04:34.52homovulgarisIt supports almost the entire gnuplot syntax
04:35.15brlcadwhat's the license?
04:35.18homovulgarisboost
04:35.24brlcadk
04:35.33homovulgarisbut it is an application i want to convert it into a library
04:35.35brlcadis it part of boost?
04:37.11brlcadlooks like no (which is fine, just curious)
04:37.17brlcadinteresting project at a glance
04:37.35brlcadso that one is more interesting than the other project you mentioned ?
04:37.36homovulgarislots of interesting concepts in the code..
04:38.22homovulgarisyac is just one application of the spirit parsing capabilities . It even supports expressions of the form factorial(x) = (x < 0.1) ? 1 : x * factorial(x - 1)
04:38.46homovulgarisand all the usual trigonometric and other mathematical functions
04:38.53brlcadsupport closures?
04:39.11homovulgarisclosures as in ?
04:40.27homovulgarisspirit suppors closures of course http://spirit.sourceforge.net/distrib/spirit_1_8_3/libs/spirit/doc/closures.html
04:40.38brlcadyeah, I saw that in spirit a while back
04:41.04brlcadbackground info, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closure_(computer_science)
04:41.37brlcadbasically from a lame pragmatic non-rigorous standpoint, the ability to define functions as objects in themselves, functions within functions
04:41.59brlcadthat refer to their containing function
04:42.34brlcadpseudo dynamic programming, rather powerful construct
04:43.59homovulgarishmm..
04:45.18brlcadso how does yac relate to phoenix?
04:45.32brlcadis it in leu of phoenix? in conjunction with it?
04:45.59brlcaddid phoenix burn up and if so, when will it be reborn? :)
04:45.59homovulgarisyac uses phoenix and spirit
04:46.14brlcadoh, really?  didn't see that
04:49.02homovulgarisGeometry Service sounds like a cool idea. didn't have much time to think about it though
04:49.51brlcadthe information is only just getting started, it's a pretty big effort with lots of payoff
04:50.03brlcadseveral design docs still to be uploaded
04:50.22brlcadhmm, the skip grammar in yac is kinda sucky
04:50.55homovulgariswe won't hve to support it since we don't expect any piped input
04:51.43homovulgarisor even interactive mode so to speak. Since we would only be dealing with std::strings or char * skip grammar can be much simplified
04:51.51brlcadoh, actually I just missed it -- the comment is misleading
04:52.00brlcadit also supports ; terminations
04:52.33brlcadi'm thinking of a constraint that is really multiple constraints
04:52.50brlcadlike in the example you put on the wiki
04:53.14brlcadsome of them are multiple grouped evaluations (e.g. 0 > x > 1)
04:53.58homovulgariseffectively they will be implemented as constraint ( x>0 && x<1)
04:54.05brlcadnods
04:54.14homovulgarisso constraints depend on constraints and hypergraphs come in
04:55.05homovulgariswhich is why I will have to modify the existing constraint class to have a std::list<Constraint *> as well to support similar logic operations once we support such constaints
04:56.13brlcadranged(a) = a > 0 && a < 1; ranged(x) && mod(x * 10, 2)==0;
04:56.18brlcador somesuch
04:56.48homovulgarisboost/adjacency_list.hpp is just 600 lines.. :) but I am pretty sure I have a lot to cover up  before thinking about hypergraphs.. my 100 hour expectation not going very smoothly.
04:57.40homovulgarisSean, regarding passing the constraint/evaluators as data strcutres what do u suggest ? actual function pointers ? or some sort of lookup table
04:59.34brlcadyou mean like a global lookup table?
04:59.43brlcador some context-specific lookup table?
04:59.44homovulgarisyeah
05:00.13homovulgarisglobal lookup table of possible constraint types. But I think passing pointers is better
05:00.31brlcadwell the main benefit of having some global table would be the ability to refer to multiple evaluators by name/type/id/whatever
05:00.49brlcadif you only need one callback, then a function pointer seems to make more sense, it's simpler
05:01.47homovulgarisI guess each constraint will have only one evaluation method . So i guess fp would suffice.
05:02.03homovulgariswhat exactly was the RTTI comment in Geometry Service
05:02.34brlcadi'll be responding to those comments later, probably friday
05:02.50homovulgarisk
05:03.11brlcadbut basically as a pervasive adopted use encouraged throughout the project contrasted with the maintenance aspects it entails
05:03.41brlcadnot so much the benefits/downsides from a technical perspective -- there's good and bad things about it that you could argue about indefinitely
05:04.05homovulgarisSean, the arb implicit constraint you were refering to , checking the faces, where would the code be located, I did a brief lookaround.. couldnt locate it i think
05:05.36brlcadrefresh my memory, that's only vaguely ringing a bell
05:06.33homovulgarisquote : conditionally requiring that each face on an arb be planar, connected, and enclose a volume
05:08.20brlcadhomovulgaris: to the rtti point, the other main issue is how using rtti pertains to container management -- since cases where rtti is used as a way to put N objects into one container can often be more effectively achieved using separate containers for each type or by using a data-driven approach where some id (data) in the object indicates the type
05:08.55brlcadthose are three pretty substantial differences in approach that are non-trivial to unwire/change down the road with various tradeoffs
05:09.32brlcadaside from several compilers only allowing you to link against other "rtti-compatible/using" libs if you use them
05:10.29homovulgarishmm.. I am facing something similar .. the container issue that is when thinking about the variable<T> objects..
05:11.26homovulgaristemplate specilaizations don't work with most compilers i guess .. So i have to change the id setting according to type somewhere
05:12.11brlcadfrom a technical perspective, this is a fairly succint classic read that hints at some of the technical reasons for/against it
05:12.17brlcadhttp://www.artima.com/intv/const2.html
05:13.31brlcadotherwise, though -- like I said, my point wasn't so much the technical as the pragmatic and maintainability/integratability aspects since it can be made to work with or without
05:13.58brlcadand yes.. template specializations can be a royal pita :)
05:14.28brlcadwhic as always .. "it depends" on the situation
05:14.41homovulgaris:| step by step i am detemplating almost everything i templated :P
05:15.44brlcadhehe
05:16.58homovulgarisI'll go eat some junk food
05:17.31homovulgariswants Math Virtual Machine to be awesome
05:18.12brlcadtoo
05:18.21brlcadlooks like you're heading that way, bit by bit :)
05:18.38brlcadi like yac, looks like a good choice
05:20.11brlcadas good as it's likely going to get without going through an existing language parser like tcl or lisp
05:22.16homovulgarisyeah, I think it would be nice to have an inhouse math expression parser/evaluator.
05:22.22homovulgarisalways comes in handy
05:23.45homovulgarisconsidering "generality" of application should i put mathvm and associated files somewhere outside libpc folder ?
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05:54.43brlcad~botmail send homovulgaris mathvm does probably belong outside of libpc -- libbn is the usual place for our numerics facilities but if the implementation is C++ then of course it'd probably be either a backend lib (with a C interface in libbn) or something similar
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08:22.44archivist_ubbrlcad, re ran the autogen.sh and configure script, that got it!
08:25.46mac`ure
08:25.47mac`u:)
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09:38.20archivist_ubi want mooore  VGR performance metric of 1298
09:39.24archivist_ubdual core opteron 2.2ghz and 2 gig ram but a few things going on in the background
09:56.46CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32315 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): adding spirit::symbols for MathVM
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10:59.24CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32316 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/status/ (4 files):
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11:01.25CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32317 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/regression/: Library addition for GeometryService.
11:03.52CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32318 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/ (.cproject .project):
11:04.34CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32319 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/people/ (. people.htm): Library addition for GeometryService.
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11:10.47CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32320 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/more/ (47 files in 5 dirs): Library addition for GeometryService.
11:21.14mafmhihi
12:12.03CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32321 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (Makefile.am pcMathVM.cpp pcMathVM.h vm_test.cpp): adding some flesh to MathVM skeletons, copy constructor for the stack; addition of vm_test for MathVM tests
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12:55.35CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32322 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiWindowManager.cxx GuiWindowManager.h): Fixing some of the problems of the taskbar, and some other uninmportant changes
12:58.46CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32323 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/libs/:
13:01.20CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32324 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcMathVM.cpp pcMathVM.h): MathFunction object definition
13:02.37CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32325 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/libs/: Library addition for GeometryService
13:04.12CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32326 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/libs/: Library addition for GeometryService.
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13:18.51CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32327 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/libs/ (397 files in 57 dirs): Library addition for GeometryService.
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13:31.27mafmsilent, busy programmers :)
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13:45.15brlcadmafm: heh, yep :)
13:50.45CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32328 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/libs/ (714 files in 45 dirs): Library addition for GeometryService.
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14:12.01pacman_87exit
14:12.37CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32329 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiBaseWindow.cxx GuiBaseWindow.h): Adding method to retrieve base windows (necessary to attach buttons in taskbars to these ones)
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14:54.41CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32330 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcMathVM.cpp pcMathVM.h vm_test.cpp): MathF1 or unary mathematical function class added, display() function added to MathVM for debugging purposes, testing addition of Unary Math functions to the MathVM symbol table
15:21.41d_rossbergpacman87: how is you progress with the revolve? what do you think you can reach this summer?
15:48.48CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32331 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/libs/date_time/ (196 files in 17 dirs): Library addition for GeometryService
15:50.43CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32332 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiWindowManager.cxx GuiWindowManager.h): Perfecting the taskbar, now it works much more closely to the Ideal Operation Environment (IOE, see my wiki page for the video) that we take as ideal interaction model
15:53.40CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32333 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/libs/ (23 files in 4 dirs): Library addition for GeometryService
16:22.21CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32334 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/libs/ (789 files in 99 dirs): Library addition for GeometryService
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18:08.19CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32335 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/GuiWidgetRotation.cxx: Enhancing the custom widget
18:10.23CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32336 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/BRL-CAD.bib: denote utf-8 encoding for emacs
18:12.10CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32337 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/BRL-CAD.bib: add ARL-TR-2396 to the todo
19:01.21CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32338 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiWidgetRotation.cxx GuiWidgetRotation.h): Enhancing custom widget with a label and the numerical progress (useful at least when testing)
19:14.59mafmhave to go, laterz folkz
19:15.01mafm:)
19:30.59CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32339 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/libs/gil/ (770 files in 5 dirs): Library addition for GeometryService
19:41.44CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32340 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: FB_FILE and -F option for specifying a remote framebuffer was fixed. twas and off-by-one strlcpy in src/libfb
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22:42.33brlcadmmm.. the final stretch
22:42.47brlcadgo go gadget gsoc
22:45.56pacman87being in #brlcad and #bzflag means brlcad comes through in stereo :)
22:47.27jonoredseems to be having issues to do with tcl... possibly mostly building with the one packaged with brlcad and for the bit that's glitching trying to link against the system's library.
22:49.39Ralithpacman87: #bzflag has something to do with brlcad?
22:49.42Ralithoh wait
22:49.45Ralithbrlcad himself
22:49.46Ralithlol
22:50.01Ralithwait, he's not there :|
22:50.05Ralith<- confused.
22:50.58Ralithor he is. whois failed me.
22:51.02pacman87brlcad (the person) said the same two statements in #brlcad (the channel) and #bzflag (the channel)
22:51.26Ralithyou know, I'm just glad there's nobody named 'bzflag' too.
22:54.48andrecastelohey guys
22:54.58pacman87howdy andrecastelo
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23:53.27brlcadpacman87: hehe
23:54.08brlcadRalith: there is, he just rarely uses that nick
23:54.13brlcad(bzflag)
23:54.35RalithD:
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080808

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080808

00:32.20CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r32341 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c: changed some variable names to be (slightly) more descriptive, and properly handle raytracing when the elevation is 0 or +-90 degrees. in that case, the transformed ray is a line, not a hyberbola.
00:32.46pacman87that took a lot longer than i was expecting
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01:36.33CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32342 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcMathVM.cpp pcMathVM.h vm_test.cpp): MathF2 or binary function added, testing evaluation of F1 and F2 types using the symbol table
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02:21.53charltrhello?
02:23.06charltrI am looking for ehlp building blrcad in windows. Can anyone help?
02:26.34charltrI guess no one is here. I will check back later
02:35.23CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32343 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcMathVM.cpp pcMathVM.h): commenting, adding size(), empty(), push_back() and clear() methods to the Stack
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03:02.30*** join/#brlcad stustev (n=stustev@ip72-205-246-167.ks.ks.cox.net)
03:02.42stustevgood evening
03:02.55stustevanybody home?
03:03.23stustevimagine this - I have another question
03:03.34stustevhow do I extrude a sketch?
03:07.49Raliththat's not covered in the mged tutorials?
03:10.29stustevI haven't been able to find it - maybe I am not looking good enough - if you think it is I will look again
03:12.54CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32344 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (. pcMathVM.cpp pcMathVM.h): Specialized node implementation : Definition and methods for ConstantNode and VariableNode to hold constant real numbers and variables (double)
03:13.26Ralithstustev: I don't know, but I don't know the answer either, and that's where I'd look.
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03:17.54stustevI have been looking all day - I figured out the sketching but now I have no clue about the extrusion
03:21.26pacman87stustev: 'in extrude'
03:22.03pacman87er, 'in <name> extrude'
03:31.47stustevI have the sketch named s0 - the autoname feature - would the command be 'in s0 extrude'?
03:33.02pacman87no, the name is the name of the extrude
03:33.08pacman87it will prompt you for the sketch name
03:33.50pacman87mged> in ext extrude
03:33.50pacman87Enter X, Y, Z of vertex: 0 0 0
03:33.50pacman87Enter X, Y, Z of H: 0 0 1
03:33.50pacman87Enter X, Y, Z of A: 1 0 0
03:33.50pacman87Enter X, Y, Z of B: 0 1 0
03:33.51pacman87Enter name of sketch: sk
03:34.07stustevtrying
03:37.01stustevit says enter K - what is K?
03:37.35pacman87i'm not sure, i'll try to find it
03:37.53stustevI will try a number - maybe I can figure it out
03:38.03pacman871 should work
03:41.57stustevI entered 100 - 'B s0' draws the sketch but only the 2D - 'B ext' draws a line - at least there is some positive progress
03:42.00stustevthanks
03:42.10pacman87it's the 'keypoint'
03:42.18pacman87it = K
03:42.35stustevis that a geometry label?
03:43.03stustevthe keypoint is the placement anchor?
03:43.33pacman87i think it has something to do with which point in your sketch you're using as the 'center'
03:43.43pacman87i'm looking throught the source code to find it
03:44.02stustevthanks
03:44.52stustevI have brlcad at work and at home - they behave differently - the work machine is a 32bit running the brlcad binary load - the home machine is 64bit svn
03:45.04stustevI have found two differences
03:46.13stustevthe mirror on the svn is 'mirror -z entityname entityname' - the binary mirror is 'mirror entityname entityname z'
03:46.53stustevthe svn clone gives a different name to the cloned entities than the binary load
03:48.06stustevif I clone hole1.s on the svn load I get hole11 - on the binary load I get hole11.s - not a big problem but I have a lot of cloned entities for hole patterns
03:48.55stustevI think I will just use hole1 as the name for the entity to clone - I think this will work
03:49.15pacman87stustev: i'd wait for one of the major devs to swing by, they know more than i do
03:50.09stustevI have a lot of time - I will leave this on - if they answer I will be able to see it tomorrow - thanks - if they don't see it I will ask again
03:50.24stustevthanks again for the help on the extrude
03:50.26stustevgoodnight
03:50.31pacman87goodnight
04:19.03CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32345 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcMathVM.cpp pcMathVM.h): UserFunction implementation: Constructors and arity()
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06:25.05CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32346 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcMathVM.cpp pcMathVM.h): initial updateStack() method for updation of Stack nodes, asUserFunction() method for getting a pointer to UserFunction
06:36.58brlcadbegins packing
07:09.35Ralithbrlcad: where you going?
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07:10.28brlcadRalith: siggraph
07:10.42brlcad(los angeles)
07:11.37Ralithcool!
07:13.40CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32347 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcMathVM.cpp pcMathVM.h): Stack iterator methods: begin, end, erase, insert
07:20.48brlcadstustev / pacman87: I believe ... that 'K' is an unimplemented feature that has never been removed/completed .. don't think it does anything
07:21.14brlcadit's a single value so not exactly a "keypoint" in classic mged sense either
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08:08.44CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32348 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcMathVM.cpp pcMathVM.h): updateStack() completed
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09:12.19CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32349 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: added some files to be in sync with Makefile.am
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09:23.47IriX64try www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/operators.png   :)
09:27.04Ralithneat
09:27.10IriX64heh
09:27.43IriX64their examples are wonderful, wish i could model :)
09:33.32RalithIriX64: go through the mged tutorial
09:33.36Raliththe basics aren't very hard at all
09:34.05IriX64i could'nt even get the mug right... and i tried :)
09:34.27Ralith...it gives you a step by step O.o
09:35.10IriX64i know but... thats being told what to do not how to do it
09:36.34RalithIriX64: did you go through the pdf from the very start without skipping anything?
09:58.43CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32350 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (56 files in 24 dirs): using boost::prior for iterator addition, subtraction ; also updating to 1.36
10:10.09IriX64pdf? i was using the html docs
10:27.55Ralithdownload the full tutorial pdf
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10:51.10CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32351 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraMode.cxx CameraMode.h): Correcting values, it was using an unexpected scale
11:07.36CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32352 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/GuiCamera.cxx: Adapting code to changes in other classes, making it work better overall (custom widget now displays a label, rotation progress corrections, etc)
11:07.38CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32353 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcMathVM.cpp pcMathVM.h): MathVM evaluate() : supports functions and numbers
11:10.58CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32354 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/vm_test.cpp: testing the evaluator with sqrt(100 + sqrt(2)) and sin( pi * (2 + sqrt(4*4)) * 12)
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13:06.23pacman87d_rossberg: ping
13:09.08d_rossbergmy profiler tells me that the most expensive function during a ray-trace is
13:09.55d_rossbergbu_bitv_shift, a function which returns a "constant" (MS Windows)
13:10.51d_rossberg(40% of rt_shootray)
13:11.05d_rossbergpacman87: pong
13:11.30pacman87re: what i expect to finish for gsoc
13:12.27pacman87straight line sketches should raytrace fine now, i finally finished the cases of looking along(parallel to) and perpendicular to the revolve axis
13:13.21d_rossbergyes, i tested the actual version, and it was ok
13:14.06pacman87my plan was to work on tess() now, unless you think my time could be spent better elsewhere
13:14.27pacman87tess() for hyp took me about 1 week
13:14.51d_rossbergis there any chance to do something with the degree 2 curves (arcs)?
13:16.06pacman87i have carcs supported in rt_sketch_contains(), but not in rt_revolve_shot()
13:17.33d_rossbergabout tess(): you should do this first because a clean implementation of the revolve is more important than supporting additional scetch elements
13:17.41jonored_...Frustration. Illegal instruction when I display rpcs still... isn't compiling cleanly.
13:18.53jonored_At least it's building rather than glitching out (since I updated tcl - it was /mostly/ compiling the brlcad copy of tcl, but then asking for stuff from the system copy, and glitching out...
13:19.44d_rossbergpacman87: do you have any ideas or sourcecode to support arcs in revolves?
13:22.50pacman87i did some research earlier, but couldn't find what i was looking for.  last night i realized the carc seg revolves would be very similar to a toroid, so i'm looking at that code now
13:25.25d_rossbergremember: a clean implementation is more important than additional shapes
13:25.53d_rossbergtherefore you should look for implementing all methods/interfaces for lines
13:26.16d_rossbergthen make a cut and send your code to google
13:26.45d_rossberghowever, we would be glad if you could support us in the future too
13:27.34pacman87i'm taking 17 hours in the fall, so i probably won't have much time.
13:27.54d_rossbergmaybe by sending me/us some ideas codefragments or contributing code to make the revolve work with arcs
13:28.57pacman87right now, it looks like tess(), uv(), and curve() are the only ones still needing work
13:30.14pacman87extrude's uv() is empty, so it's not much help for finding an algorithm
13:31.24d_rossberglook at the cone, your revolves are very similar to cones
13:33.24pacman87even though lines are the only ones working now, i'm still trying to write my other functions to require minimal modificaitons to add to
13:34.26pacman87should each line segment in the sketch have it's own uv space?
13:39.38d_rossbergi think they have to have each it's own uv space because otherwise there would be a problem with the horizontal lines (right?)
13:41.50pacman87ok, and the start/end planes for partials, i can just scale the 2d hitpoint to get uv coords
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13:44.44d_rossbergthis should work
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13:50.56d_rossbergbtw the cone method should work for every shape in a sketch, therefore the method would be general
14:01.44CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32355 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/GuiWidgetRotation.cxx: Formating the numerical progress a bit more gently
14:05.02``Erik*peer*
14:08.01mafm*goto jail*
14:09.06``Eriklabel 'jail' not found
14:14.44mafmRIAA will catch the exception :)
14:15.17``Erikyeah, I'd expect riaa would be halfassed about handling a continuation
14:16.02mafma continuation? :D
14:16.21mafmyou mean that *peer* was a kind of "back here"?
14:16.43``Erikyeah, old programming concept that most languages don't support, some attempt to fake little parts with things like setjmp/longjmp and exceptions
14:16.51``Erikhehe, the *peer* was meant as looking around
14:17.03``Erikverb, not  noun
14:18.03mafmah ok
14:18.21archivist_ubhmm peer should be in INTERCAL
14:18.32``Erikpokes andre with a cattleprod
14:18.57archivist_ubpeer at subroutine
14:19.25``Erikheh
14:19.35``Eriknot as awesome as "jump from", though
14:27.14archivist_ubI like the footnotes on this page http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/intercal-man/
14:29.46mafmjump from in disguise: "** This footnote intentionally unreferenced."
15:00.01CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32356 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CameraMode.cxx: Swapping axes
15:23.59CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32357 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/vm_test.cpp: division in vm_test was not working due to a misplaced ; corrected
15:25.43prasad1``Erik: attending siggraph?
15:46.42CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32358 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CameraMode.h: Fixing typo
15:58.04CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32359 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CameraModeBlender.cxx: Removing \todo comment, no longer applied
17:31.48``Eriknot this year
17:32.06``Erikby the time the paperwork went through on my side, the hotels were all booked up way beyond per diem
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080809

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080809

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02:21.17starseekertesting
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03:24.39yukonbobhello, cadheads
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04:32.54pacman87will be GRE'ing tomorrow afternoon, wish me luck
04:37.13starseekerwishes pacman87 luck
05:08.36yukonbobwonders at a GRE is
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10:26.01Hybris71I have trouble obtaining BRL-CAD. Sourceforge just blows up big and ugly in my face, claiming "Group cannot be created"
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10:30.07Hybris_71Sorry. Using the web client. Dropped out. Can anyone help with the sourceforge issue?
10:33.56Hybris_71OK. I see. Dead CAD. I'll just learn Cademia instead. Bye.
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11:26.48CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32360 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): modifying pcset structure to pass parameter by expression/string as well as by datastructure, also memory leak correction mentioned in TODO, was occuring due to not clearing bu_vls while dequeing
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18:25.39*** topic/#brlcad by siggraph -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || Only a few days left in the 2008 Google Summer of Code! || ACM SIGGRAPH 2008 is under way!
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20:11.58mac`u_re
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23:57.21pacman87according to the GRE, i still know how to do math ;)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080810

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080810

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02:45.30``Erikssshhhhhhh
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04:11.54starseeker``Erik:  heh
07:34.23CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32363 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): continuing with supporting both data and expression based passing of parameter information , testing with point, vector and fastf types
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20:15.39CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32371 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)
20:15.39CIA-23BRL-CAD: Making rt depend on pc rather than the other way around
20:15.40CIA-23BRL-CAD: M include/pc.h transfer of structure definitions from raytrace.h/ remove raytrace.h include / remove mk_constraint export
20:15.40CIA-23BRL-CAD: M include/raytrace.h transfer of tructures to pc.h / add pc.h include
20:15.40CIA-23BRL-CAD: M src/libpc/pc_test.c temporarily commenting out test code
20:15.43CIA-23BRL-CAD: M src/libpc/pc_main.c remove pc_mk_constraint to be reinseted correctly post the dependency change, remove wdb.h, raytrace.h includes
20:15.46CIA-23BRL-CAD: M src/libpc/TODO Minor work update
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21:07.30DerevkoHi, I've an issue with brlcad build, it doesn't compile on debian sid... here the full log (3,7M) http://paste.debian.net/14478/plain/14478
21:07.42Derevkosomeone can help me?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080811

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080811

01:41.49*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
01:57.53siggraphDerevko: howdy
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02:14.42siggraphDerevko: if you're working on an updated .deb for Debian, I have several suggestions/comments relavent to your build
02:22.28siggraphDerevko: namely 1) for a package-management system, you want --disable-all instead of all the --disable-*-build options you're using; 2) there is no reason for you to use --enable-warnings or --enable-progress (those are dev-team options); 3) you don't need or want java as a dependency, let it autodetect or force it off using --without-java (unnecessary but explicit); 4) there is a BIG ALERT warning about installing with --prefix=/usr .. there
02:22.35siggraphlemme know if that cut off :)
02:27.25siggraph6) use --without-opengl for now as well (buggy nvidia drivers will crash X hard on some configurations); 7) .. the crash log is interesting, looking into it
02:35.40CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32372 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/librender/Makefile.am: contrary to libtool tweakage, debian is apparently bitching about LIBADD symbol dependencies in adrt's librender.
02:36.17siggraphDerevko: 8) that last commit should kick start the build for you, or you can manually remove the 'adrt \' line from src/Makefile.am
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02:55.32homovulgarisbrlcad: can you have a look at r32371. I changed made libpc a dependency of librt. I am not very sure about my configure.ac modifications.. especially where i added LIBSTDCXX
03:22.04siggraphhomovulgaris: I did
03:23.29homovulgarisok
03:24.03siggraphhomovulgaris: they looked alright -- whether LIBSTDCXX needs to go there or with $PC instead depends on a few other things
03:24.20siggraphwhich won't really know without building across a few other platforms
03:24.54siggraphthe header removal of raytrace.h was right, rt uses pc -- not the other way around
03:24.58siggraphso that was good
03:25.06homovulgarisok.
03:25.22homovulgarisalso right now constraint.c in librt depends on wdb ..
03:25.45homovulgarisshould i remove that dependency ? I mean should i be using wdb from rt ?
03:26.48siggraphin general .. "no" -- libwdb sits on top of librt
03:26.56homovulgarissorry, it is just a blank header include i guess, not using any wdb stuff
03:27.15siggraphbut it's not fully consistent at the moment either, so it's understandable
03:27.44homovulgarisso basically, i can shift my mk_constraint code with modifications into libwdb
03:28.01siggraphyou had an mk_constraint in libwdb already didn't you?
03:28.04siggraphthat you removed
03:28.14homovulgariswell it was in libpc
03:28.20siggraphoh
03:28.24siggraphblinks
03:28.24homovulgarisi should have shifted it to WDB long back
03:28.34siggraphyeah
03:29.27siggraphit either belongs in librt as an rt_constraint or some similar librt "creator"
03:29.58siggraphbut primarily in libwdb as mk_constraint (which could call this hypothetical rt_constraint or not)
03:30.34homovulgarissean, now tests will depend on both pc,wdb and rt when i do actual constraint writing geometry updation etc, so the pc_test files should be shifted somewhere so that it gets built after librt and libwdb is built
03:30.54siggraphmisspoke, s/rt_constraint/wdb_export/ .. which would call the librt export routine for a constraint object
03:31.22siggraphokay, sounds reasonable
03:31.36homovulgarisyeah, the export functionality is in rt/constraint.c
03:33.58siggraphso libwdb should probably just call that, but still provide the mk_ interface
03:34.34siggraphmk_ is the easy 'public interface' for creation, default constructor of sorts
03:35.07homovulgarisyeah, sort of hardcoded parametrics ;)
03:35.32homovulgarisok, i will get back to finishing up the read-solve-update-write cycle
03:35.39siggraphhow's that goin? :)
03:35.48siggraphoh question
03:36.32homovulgariswell parameter passing is done, I need to work with constraint passing now.
03:37.17homovulgarisThe problem with passing just a function pointer is that I have to pass the signature type information in some way as well
03:37.55siggraphnoticed in pc_main that it nicely sorts out the data types, but then pcVCSet uses different structures on the type
03:38.10siggraphe.g. PC_DB_VECTOR_T being a vect_t and a Vector class
03:38.26homovulgarislike istangent() expects two arrays/2 vectps , ispositive() expects 1 array/vectp and so on
03:38.39siggraphright
03:39.05siggraphcould do something like what opengl does with the format encoded in the name
03:39.54siggraphe.g. isPositive3f()
03:40.12siggraphnot really elegant, but a thought
03:40.23homovulgarishmm.. I was thinking of something like that in MathVM, add##2 for add expecting two inputs... but that was just for double check.
03:40.30homovulgarishmm..
03:40.40siggraphor could make the signature simply be a vararg ..., and let the function typecheck itself (yikes)
03:41.02homovulgarisi only like varargs when all the types are the same :D
03:41.34siggraphyou mean like printf? :)
03:41.42homovulgarishmm.. i think i could do something similar to what i am doing for passing parameter by structure.. pass a void * and a type variable
03:41.43siggraphif the types are the same, there's not much point to using varargs :)
03:41.55siggraphcould just use an array :)
03:42.07homovulgaris:P yeah.
03:42.10homovulgarisexactly :D
03:42.54siggraphyeah, data-driven is pretty straightforward
03:43.21siggraphthough there are some problems with that with strict c99
03:43.53siggraphI forget the rules off the top of my head at the moment, but there's some issue there iirc
03:44.02homovulgarisoh
03:44.27siggraphsomething to do with void*'s and casting to function pointers not being allowed
03:44.37siggraphI'd have to dig, it's come up before
03:45.21homovulgarisok.. i'll check too
03:45.47siggraphmight be C++ or c99, might be confusing my languages, but it'd still be relevant
03:46.25siggraphso think you're going to make implicit constraint checking by next week? :)
03:47.32homovulgarisconfident :)
03:47.47homovulgaris{ hopefully :) }
03:48.16siggraphheh, { great :) }
03:48.50homovulgarisbecause once this constraint passing is done, the actual implementation of constraints , most cases being simple, is really not time-consuming
03:48.57pacman87are you two proposing an extension to lolcode, where semicolons are replaced by ':)'?
03:49.37homovulgarisuses {} as equivalent of clouds in cartoons
03:49.59homovulgarishowdy pacman
03:50.24pacman87hi homovulgaris
03:51.25homovulgaris:D i should change that nick, i like madant much more anyways :)
03:51.40homovulgarissomething vulgar about latin
03:52.31homovulgarissean, on a scale of 1 to 10 how much trouble would one face when trying to make a .deb package for brlcad ?
03:55.01siggraphlikes "madant" more too .. fewer vulgar connotations ;)
03:55.23siggraphhomovulgaris: "it depends" .. on a lot of things
03:56.06siggraphtheir familiarity with making deb's being the biggest, followed by autotool build familiarity, followed by knowledge of what our options mean
03:58.23siggraphotherwise, if you know all three of those then it's like a 2 .. if you don't then it's like an 8
04:01.26siggraphhowdy andrecastelo
04:01.34siggraphhow goes the hemispheres?
04:02.06andrecastelohowdy siggraph
04:02.37andrecasteloi see you are excited about the event :)
04:03.46siggraphof course!
04:06.21siggraphalrighty, about time to /away ... blasted interweb lackage
04:07.38andrecastelowhen is your flight?
04:08.09siggraphi'm already there
04:08.22siggraphtwas two/three days ago
04:10.24andrecastelooh, my bad :)
04:10.31andrecastelohow's the weather? :P
04:11.03siggraphalready slightly sunburnt
04:11.17siggraphthat daystar is viscious when you don't see it very often
04:11.19starseeker<snort> from lunch, probably
04:11.46siggraphmisses the golden tan he used to keep
04:11.48starseekerstill wants to know who's bright idea (no pun intended) the white tablecloth was
04:12.12siggraphsunglasses ftw
04:12.29siggraphreally detaches now
04:12.45andrecastelogood night, cya tomorrow :D
04:13.16starseekersigns off too, sleep ftw
04:14.13andrecastelo'night starseeker
04:28.33yukonbobwaves in -- hello cadheads
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07:07.38Derevkosiggraph: thanks a lot. Just a question, why should I force java off?
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10:09.27CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32373 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): shifting test to outside libpc since it depends on pc,rt,wdb
10:15.52mafmsiggraph: are you brlcad? :D
11:09.11CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32374 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/libs/graph/ (. LICENSE index.html):
11:15.54CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32375 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/libs/graph/test/ (65 files): Library addition for GeometryService
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12:34.25mafmanybody with linux amd64 around?
12:34.40mafmI'd like somebody to test my package
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12:53.01archivist_ubstarts an svn checkout
13:13.07CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32376 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/libs/graph/test/planar_input_graphs/ (30 files): Library addition for GeometryService
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13:41.44``ErikEVERYBODY DANCE!
13:42.18archivist_ubugh, dancing is too much like hard work
13:42.38``ErikI dance incredibly white, so it's pretty easy for me *shrug* :)
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14:12.00CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32379 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/pc_test.c: include headers, uncomment code, test compilation & execution
14:23.53stustev1hello world
14:28.21``Erikreturn 0;
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15:18.57pacman87/* User has no tolerance for this kind of drink */
15:19.13pacman87(tor.c, 1043)
15:19.19CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32380 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/libs/ (26 files in 26 dirs): Major svn connection issues, reworking the Boost library
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15:47.09``Erikoi, andre, how goeth the mlt?
15:47.25andrecastelohey ``Erik
15:47.54andrecastelohad exams last week plus one wednesday and one monday
15:48.17andrecastelodidn't have much time to put in mlt
15:49.18andrecasteloi'm still stuck.. when the secondary rays hit anything, *everything* shades
15:49.32``Erik'everything'?
15:49.42andrecasteloyes
15:50.00andrecastelocurrently, if it's supposed to be shadowed, it paints a dark blue
15:50.12andrecasteloif not, gray
15:50.17``Erikhrm, dark blue like 0,0,1 ?
15:50.25``Erikdo you have a screenie of this?
15:50.45andrecasteloyes i can set recreate it
15:51.11andrecasteloit paints a specified color, in ray hit, just to note what's supposed to look like
15:52.04``Erikok, so still flat shading
15:57.48``Eriklooks at the calendar O.o
16:00.09andrecasteloscreens taken, uploading
16:02.20andrecastelortmlt cornell.g floor.r right_wall.r -> http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/916/withoutbluexv2.jpg
16:02.40andrecastelortmlt cornell.g floor.r right_wall.r short_box.r -> http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1246/withbluevd8.jpg
16:06.52*** join/#brlcad kcorbitt (i=d12559a6@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c36774134f51b03a)
16:07.10kcorbittping
16:08.08kcorbittanyone there?
16:08.58``Eriknope
16:08.59``Erik'sup?
16:09.22``Erikinteresting, andre, um, material information isn't being grabbed correctly... are you fully committed right now?
16:09.26stustev1hello
16:09.43kcorbittI read about the GSoC projects on the wiki
16:09.53kcorbittis there anywhere where the progress on those is being tracked?
16:10.01kcorbittthey look like super useful improvements
16:10.05``Eriktheir individual blogs
16:10.32``Erikeach project should be linking to the appropriate place for status if not on the wiki... :)
16:10.54CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32381 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/ (more/ people/ regression/ status/ tools/): Major svn connection issues, reworking the Boost library
16:10.54CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32382 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/boost_1_35_0/wiki/: Major svn connection issues, reworking the Boost library
16:10.58stustev1I have brlcad on two machines. One at home and one at work. The home machine is svn. The work machine is a binary download. They behave differently.
16:11.53``Erikhowso? (the latest source release has significant differences from svn trunk, and binaries are all quite a bit older...)
16:12.24stustev1so I should load the svn on my work box. thanks
16:12.49stustev1I will do so
16:13.37stustev1the clone works different and the mirror. This tells me what I need to do to make the systems the same.
16:14.17stustev1I am unable to use the extrude command. It asks for a K value. nothing seems to work for the K value.
16:14.53pacman87the K value isn't used
16:15.11andrecastelo``Erik: i'll have to leave in about 20 minutes, have classes this afternoon
16:15.51andrecasteloand won't be back for another 8 hours o.O
16:15.54CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32388 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/ (107 files in 3 dirs): svn:mime-type & svn:eol-style fixes
16:15.58andrecastelowhat you have in mind?
16:16.10stustev1i understood that from a previous answer but the prompt asks for one and no answer works. leaving it blank doesn't seem to work either.
16:16.50pacman87i just use 1
16:17.02stustev1I will try that - thanks
16:18.38CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r32389 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c: Minor updates.
16:22.18``Erikclone changes have been merged into the latest stable, so the source tarball on the webpage should work for you. svn trunk can be hit or miss, there's a  big code migration happening right now
16:22.35``Erikandre, I'll take a peek and see if there's anything blatant *shrug*
16:22.41``Erikhave fun at class O.o
16:23.57stustev1I will download the tarball and see what happens - thanks
16:30.31kcorbittI read the project log for mafm's GUI project
16:30.47kcorbittlooks like there's still a lot of coding going on
16:31.10kcorbittI assume that won't be ready for use for a while yet then?
16:38.37andrecastelocya ``Erik
16:38.51andrecasteloif you need me, andrecastelo@gmail.com
16:51.45*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5B14FE9A.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:55.58CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32390 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/edsol.c: Fixed a typo.
17:13.51CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32391 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/Makefile.am: librender relies upon libutil so build it later. patch from Giuseppe Iuculano (derevko) via sf bug report 640802.
17:14.45siggraphmafm: yep
17:16.49mafmkcorbitt: for real use, it needs a while, yep :)
17:23.15siggraphstustev1: clone and mirror have been under active development/improvements lately, so it's to be expected that they'd be different for you
17:24.01siggraphah yeah, what erik said
17:25.20stustev1very good - I am configuring a tarball download now - thanks
17:25.57kcorbittmafm: thanks. this is a GSoC project, but is anyone out there planning on actively continuing dev work after summer ends?
17:26.13siggraphkcorbitt: hopefully he is ;)
17:26.41siggraphbut even if he's not, it's one of our top-priorities .. most paths of development relate to it in some way
17:26.49``Erikhow was the irt thing, brlcad?
17:26.58siggraphit was pretty good
17:27.18siggraphnot as immediately useful as solid modeling was, but still pretty good
17:27.22``Erik<-- hopes to thumb through materials when ya'll get back
17:27.49siggraph``Erik: if you can get ahold of the low man .. he just set a hell of a lot of files with the wrong mime types
17:28.09``Erikeh? who? whu?
17:28.11siggraphyeah, they should actually have all the presentations on-line too
17:28.18``Erikoh
17:28.18``Erikdave
17:28.24siggraphyeppers
17:28.37siggraphtest/plain isn't exactly .. right
17:29.13siggraphthey were text/plain .. oddly changed them to test/plain saying he was fixing them
17:29.21siggraph.. fix'd em real good ;)
17:29.36``Erikhe seems... confused, but is looking now
17:29.53``Erik"oops, hehehehe"
17:30.00``Erikthanks for the heads up
17:30.02siggraphspecifically r32388
17:30.10siggraphbut the one(s) preceeding too
17:31.51``Erikhe says it's all fixed now
17:31.56siggraphalso should set the svn:eol-style
17:32.16siggraphon the text files
17:32.26``Erikhe says he did, it won't let him commit if he doesn't set that
17:32.58siggraphif only halts on mime-types, and then "suggests" eol-style
17:33.01siggraphhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Mime-types
17:33.09siggraphhe might want the sample config file
17:35.52``Erikok, got him on that page
17:38.12siggraphdanka sir
17:38.27siggraphhow's the land of mary doing?
17:39.08``Erikstill seems to be here *shrug* looking like I might need to bring my lunch this week, or go hungry and eat bigger dinners :D
17:39.47``Erikoh, btw, I'm pillaging desks of people who're at siggraph
17:39.49``Erikmwahahaha
17:39.52siggraph:)
17:39.59``ErikRAPE THE VILLAGE AND PLUNDER THE WOMEN!
17:40.22siggraphleave my stash of porn and booze alone!
17:40.26``Erik(nah, I left my kbd at home, so I'm borrowing starseekers for today)
17:40.45``Erikum, what booze? *burp* and I think nick beat me to the pr0n
17:41.21siggraphspeaking of nick, he may need some svn skooling
17:41.37siggraphsupposed to be committing his stuff soon, pointed him in your general direction
17:41.45``Erikyuh oh
17:42.14siggraphand he's never used svn or any other vcs before
17:42.32siggraphsent him instructions via e-mail, but he might need some poking
17:43.02``Erikaight, if he wanders my way, I'll show him out to irreperable thrash the repo
17:43.11siggraphheh
17:45.13siggraphwonders what "stract" means .. dave picked an odd name there..
17:45.25mafmkcorbitt: "but is anyone out there planning on actively continuing dev work after summer ends?" -- ,e
17:45.27mafmme*
17:45.45siggraphab-stract, dis-stract, .. ex-stract
17:45.46``Erikw00t
17:46.01siggraph~mafm++
17:46.04mafmthere's some other people interested and who started commiting some changes
17:46.17mafmkcorbitt: maybe you want to work in that too? :D
17:46.34siggraphyeah, that mess needs to all come together at some point :)
17:46.34``Erikabstract
17:46.59mafm(sorry for the delay, but it seems that notifications don't work properly with this IRC client, or this channel)
17:47.19kcorbittcool, that's good to hear
17:47.23siggraphchannel doesn't have anything to do with highlights :)
17:47.45CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32392 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/ (149 files in 7 dirs): svn:mime-type & svn:eol-style fixes
17:47.45siggraphunless you told your client to do something per channel of course
17:47.48kcorbittfound out about brl-cad some months ago and have been wanting to teach myself it
17:48.20kcorbittbut haven't found the time to really spend a day going over the mged tutorials
17:48.46kcorbittthat's why I found mafm's project and got very excited!
17:49.03mafm:D
17:49.09mafmwhat's your platform kcorbitt?
17:49.34kcorbittI use vista or ubuntu at home and CentOS at work
17:50.06mafmsiggraph: I think that it doesn't highlight or show smalls windows when I leave this channel as the active one, and it happens often since it's the more active amongst the ones I join :)
17:50.24mafmkcorbitt: 32/64 bits?
17:50.32kcorbittactually main reason I use vista still is because there's no decent CAD package for linux
17:50.36kcorbitt32
17:50.51kcorbittbut hoping brl-cad will change that
17:50.57``Erikerm, pro/E and unisys were available for linux last I heard
17:51.21mafmmeh, I just prepared a package for amd64 and wanted to find some vict^H^H^H^Hbrave volunteers to test it
17:51.22kcorbittoh, I hadn't heard
17:51.25``ErikI'm under the impression that they're considered "decent", just expensive
17:51.35kcorbittyeah they're good
17:51.35siggraphkcorbitt: even with an easier to use interface, there's no production CAD system that doesn't require some level of training to be useful :)
17:51.40jonoredThat doesn't mean that an organization keeps the license, though... so might be expensive for a person to get the linux version.
17:51.48kcorbittyeah
17:51.56kcorbittI'm no professional engineer, just a student/hobbyist
17:52.22kcorbittmanaged to get an edu license of Autodesk Inventor which I've used a lot
17:52.43kcorbittbut this project is very intriguing
17:53.10jonoredHappily, my school does... worth checking. Won't do anything on my machine, but it's there.
17:54.33kcorbittI write C code for my day job though
17:54.47siggraphwoot
17:54.51``Erikneat
17:54.59siggraphkcorbitt: we need devs more than we need users at this point ;)
17:55.04``ErikI attend meetings, read email, and attend more meetings for my day job
17:55.08siggraphthough users are always welcom ;)
17:55.26kcorbittand I want to look into doing some dev work if it won't suck away my life
17:55.37kcorbittlike some other open source projects I've involved myself in in the past ;)
17:56.00kcorbittadmittedly, that is my own fault
17:56.10kcorbittthis sort of thing is so darn cool!
17:57.15siggraphindeed!
17:57.24siggraphlots of stuffs to be done
17:57.27mafmabstracting away from society? sure, it is :)
17:58.07siggraphsociewho?what? :)
17:58.14kcorbittlol
17:58.37kcorbittout of curiousity, any kind of estimate for the current userbase of brl-cad?
17:59.49kcorbitt(if any?)
17:59.58siggraphnot anything reliable
18:00.12siggraphwe used to have 2k registered site licenses before we were open source
18:00.42siggraphbut now we're seeing about 10k downloads per month, so it's really hard to say
18:01.05kcorbittgood stuff
18:01.13siggraphi'm sure a lot of folks checking things out and learning/using brl-cad that never interact, other users that try it once and never again, etc
18:01.20``Erikeven if you sum all that up, some people just download it, look, and throw it away... others redistribute it
18:01.21kcorbittsure
18:01.49siggraphcan say that our rate has been increasing year over year, so if anything .. more people are noticing
18:02.01kcorbitt(I was one of the download-once-and-never-actually-use-it crowd for the month of July ;))
18:02.38kcorbittis there a centralized list of feature requests/bugs?
18:02.48mafmsiggraph: I PM'ed you, I don't know if it's a convenient time for you :)
18:04.01mafmkcorbitt: http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad/?abmode=1#item3rd-3
18:04.28mafm(I just noticed new SF interface, not very convenient for direct links it seems :)
18:04.41mafmtab "Public"
18:05.43kcorbittthanks
18:06.38kcorbittfor history, why was it decided to go open source?
18:06.46kcorbittif anyone is still around from when that happened
18:09.54*** join/#brlcad docelic_ (n=docelic@78.134.204.86)
18:11.24siggraphkcorbitt: for brl-cad, it was more why *not* go open source?
18:11.57siggraphbrl-cad has always been developed in a relatively open manner, as open as the team could get away with at the time
18:12.56siggraphthere are many benefits and potential benefits that were obtained when we were allowed to go open source
18:13.32siggraphnote "allowed" != "decided" .. wanted to a long time ago, but it took over a half-decade to get it approved
18:13.44kcorbittI see
18:14.17kcorbittsounds like you've been a developer for quite some time
18:14.41kcorbittdoes the project have paid/full time devs, or is it solely volunteer?
18:15.13siggraphit just makes sense .. the gov isn't into the business of making money on brl-cad (and they shouldn't be imho) .. and it's not in the public's interest for such an extensive code to NOT be in the public's hands
18:15.18kcorbittfrom reading the history page it sounds like it was first designed by the military, so I assume there were paid developers at some point at least
18:15.38siggraphboth, some paid/full some not, some via ARL, some other orgs
18:16.27kcorbittneat
18:16.57siggraphARL still funds, develops, and monitors/reviews brl-cad development, though the project is a 'complete' open source project with its own community around it where those that participate are the ones that direct development
18:17.09kcorbittthat's reassuring - projects with even a few full-time developers seem to be much healthier in general than volunteer only ones
18:17.18mafmsiggraph: so about the private message?
18:17.23siggraphi.e. a development meritocracy with just some basic peer review to make sure we have a consistent vision
18:17.38siggraphmafm: sorry, on a roll :)
18:18.01kcorbittheh, sorry for taking your time
18:18.12kcorbittjust trying to get a better handle on the structure
18:19.14siggraphsome of that is covered in the HACKING file in our distribution
18:19.23siggraphsome in the README
18:26.53CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32393 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (buttons.c dodraw.c muves.c qray.c rtif.c setup.c): Getting rid of a few warning.
18:27.39mafmso I'll repeat myself now that the channel is a bit more active...
18:28.10mafm<mafm> anybody with linux amd64 around?
18:28.15mafm<mafm> I'd like somebody to test my package
18:30.25siggraphmm.. have an amd64 back at the office somewhere, but I'm of course nowhere near that right now :)
18:39.16mafmI think that I should compile for i386, it's more popular :D
18:40.57siggraphis there a reason you need amd64?
18:42.23siggraphif it's for the gsoc 'goal' of making a dev/test binary -- anything should suffice really
18:44.15mafmyes, it is -- both computers are with amd64
18:44.30mafmand I would like somebody to test :D
18:44.44mafmif it's not to be tested, what's the point of making it? :)
18:50.05CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32394 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Added the following commands to libged and libtclcad: idents, regions, solids, loadview, saveview and solids_on_ray.
18:51.41siggraphah, you mean both of yours are amd64
18:51.52siggraphyeah, just compile for i386 to hit a wider audience
18:52.15siggraphthe point is exposure/availability, otherwise you're right -- it'd be a waste of time
18:54.08mafmyep
18:54.33mafmmy next laptop would be i386 I guess, I didn't like being an early adopter :D
18:55.15mafm(not that early, it had been commercialized for years, but there are still some things missing at this point)
18:55.43mafmbut I think that it would be a Dell and would only arrive by the end of august, at the very least
18:56.23siggraphyou can compile for i386 on amd64 no?
18:56.50mafmI think so, but I never did for big projects
18:57.06mafmand Debian has only native distros, not mixed ones like fedora
18:57.39mafmg3d and the libraries are not much of a problem, but I think that OGRE is
18:58.05siggraphyou'll probably just have one file, one staticly compiled binary file -- probably easiest to make and get into hands for testing
18:58.30siggraphlooks for food
19:03.29mafmhmm, I'm doing it with dynamic libs
19:10.19mafmok, I leave this cross-compiling ... going home now
19:10.37mafmkcorbitt: hopefully tomorrow I'll have a binary package for you :)
19:12.10kcorbittnice!
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19:39.11``Erikbrlcad: low-man says thanks for the config
20:30.24prasad_sean, did the expo start?
21:05.22*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5B14FE9A.dip.t-dialin.net)
23:03.53siggraphprasad_: not yet
23:03.59siggraph``Erik: okies dokies
23:04.05siggraphthanks for relaying
23:04.46siggraphsips his cognac whilest listening to the advances in real-time rendering session
23:05.15siggraphpraises this glorious new "Geek Bar"
23:14.53CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32396 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob and andre have added procedural geometry tools to the Windows build
23:48.50siggraphhopes starseeker is watching the data structures for computer graphics class
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080812

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080812

00:13.30*** join/#brlcad docelic_ (n=docelic@78.134.204.86)
00:25.30*** join/#brlcad andre|away__ (n=chatzill@189.71.48.147)
00:31.12CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32397 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
00:31.12CIA-23BRL-CAD: reword -- made all platform installers use consistent naming conventions,
00:31.12CIA-23BRL-CAD: outlined in the HACKING file. In particular, the Windows installer is now more
00:31.13CIA-23BRL-CAD: version-aware, installing into a versioned subdir by default (similar to how we
00:31.13CIA-23BRL-CAD: distribute for other platforms) and allowing per-version uninstalls. bob also
00:31.15CIA-23BRL-CAD: fixed my windows hackage, so props to the man.
00:33.28andrecastelohey guys
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00:54.43*** join/#brlcad jonored (n=jonored@dsl092-076-134.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
01:18.19andrecastelo_hey ``Erik, did you have the time to take a look at the code?
01:18.34yukonbobhello, cadheads
01:18.44yukonbobreads scrollback
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06:00.21*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1128565078.dsl.bell.ca)
06:01.16IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/adchavoc.png :)
06:25.39IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/mixhavoc.png   :) with an x server other than cygwinX
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07:00.15CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32398 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: added some files to be in sync with Makefile.am
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08:05.17*** join/#brlcad pawleeq (n=pawleeq@pc112.iabrno.cz)
08:06.44pawleeqHi, I have problem when compiling 7.12.4 on Ubuntu 8.04
08:07.34archivist_uberror?
08:07.37pawleeq./configure goes well, but make ends with error: "can't read /brlcad-7.12.4/src/other/libz/libz.la: No such file or directory" and
08:08.13pawleeq"brlcad-7.12.4/src/other/libz/libz.la' is not a valid libtool archive"
08:08.24pawleeqthe file itself is in the right place
08:08.53pawleeqmake[4]: *** [tkimg.la] Error 1
08:13.27pawleeqthe configure script follows: ./configure --with-tcl=/usr/share/tcltk/tcl8.5/tclConfig.sh --with-tk=/usr/share/tcltk/tk8.5/tkConfig.sh
08:18.36archivist_ubhmm I used svn and it used tcl that came with brlcad, hang about someone should know the answer eventually
08:18.39*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
08:23.58pawleeqor i can try svn:)
08:53.18*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.204.86)
09:09.48d_rossbergpawleec: 7.12.4 doesn't work with Ubuntu (there is a thread about it in the brlcad-users mailing list)
09:10.02d_rossbergthe svn checkout should work
09:11.19pawleeqwell, it does not :/
09:11.32pawleeqhere goes the error message:
09:11.36pawleeq/home/pawleeq/src/brlcad/brlcad/src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XFreeDeviceList'
09:11.36pawleeq/home/pawleeq/src/brlcad/brlcad/src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XOpenDevice'
09:11.36pawleeq/home/pawleeq/src/brlcad/brlcad/src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XSelectExtensionEvent'
09:11.36pawleeq/home/pawleeq/src/brlcad/brlcad/src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XListInputDevices'
09:11.37pawleeqcollect2: ld returned 1 exit status
09:11.37pawleeqmake[2]: *** [btclsh] Error 1
09:11.39pawleeqmake[2]: Leaving directory `/home/pawleeq/src/brlcad/brlcad/src/bwish'
09:11.41pawleeqmake[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
09:11.43pawleeqmake[1]: Leaving directory `/home/pawleeq/src/brlcad/brlcad/src'
09:11.45pawleeqmake: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
09:15.54*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
09:17.41archivist_ubcheck config.log for missing , eg xorg dev stuff by the look of it
09:21.27mafmhi
09:21.49mafmRalith: do you have 32 or 64 bit system?
10:06.03Ralithmafm: 32, why?
10:07.36Ralithactually, I've gtg
10:11.17d_rossbergmafm: i've a 64 bit Ubuntu 7.10 here
10:25.23mafmd_rossberg: maybe you can test a g3d package that I made?
10:25.36mafmRalith: for that :)
10:29.13d_rossbergmafm: maybe :)
10:35.49d_rossbergwhere can i find your package?
10:36.27mafmI'm compressing it and then upload it
10:40.56mafmd_rossberg: http://brlcad.org/~mafm/g3d-packages/
10:43.14d_rossbergok, i'm trying the .gz ...
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11:54.34*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || Only a few days left in the 2008 Google Summer of Code! || ACM SIGGRAPH 2008 is under way!
12:18.48CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32399 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Shifting mk_constraint to libwdb
13:03.32``Erikno, andre, not yet :( I pulled it up in vim and other crap came up
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13:13.56d_rossbergmafm: i could install libzzip with the package manager, but now the libCg.so is missing
13:14.09d_rossbergwhere does it belongs to?
13:18.37CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32400 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: renamed PI to its current name M_PI
13:23.39CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32401 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/iges/ (n_iges.cpp n_iges.hpp):
13:23.39CIA-23BRL-CAD: - replaced a C99 construct by std::string (which is the real nature of this variable)
13:23.39CIA-23BRL-CAD: - adjusted the function type of IGES::readBreps
13:31.57CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32402 10/brlcad/trunk/ (10 files in 10 dirs): added some additional geometry conversion tools to the CMake build
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14:34.46CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32403 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
14:34.46CIA-23BRL-CAD: adding pass by struct and pass by struct functionality analogous to pc_param:
14:34.46CIA-23BRL-CAD: modification of pc_constrnt struct, adding pc_pushconstraint_expr() and
14:34.46CIA-23BRL-CAD: pc_pushconstraint_struct(), associated modifications to other pc functions
14:44.22mafmd_rossberg: we can't ship things like libCg afaik, that's a proprietary library by nVidia
14:45.17mafmhttp://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/virtual/libcg
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14:51.21d_rossbergmafm: but i have gutsy,it looks like this package isn't available there
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14:54.20mafmd_rossberg: http://developer.nvidia.com/object/cg_toolkit.html
14:56.46d_rossbergmaybe, but why do i have to use it?
15:05.17mafmOGRE requires it
15:06.40mafmor rather doesn't require, but strongly recommends
15:07.38d_rossbergbad luck
15:08.57mafmwhen you start to use complex libraries like OGRE, you start to have lots of dependencies :(
15:11.45d_rossbergbtw: it looks like you may redistribute Cg (they have binary packages for this on their web page)
15:12.05d_rossbergthe one you showed me
15:13.08mafmbut I think that you can re-distristribute in the legal sense
15:13.25mafmthat's why Debian or Ubuntu have "installers", but not the libraries directly
15:13.54mafm(kind of like with macromedia flash plugins)
15:14.27mafmso if they don't have them in the repositories, I doubt that we can
15:16.35d_rossbergi think we can because Nvidia has redistributable packages on its web page
15:16.55d_rossbergbtw: what is "libfreeimage"?
15:17.56mafmii  libfreeimage3                         3.10.0-1                      Support library for graphics image formats (library)
15:18.06d_rossberg(I use now libCg from Nvidia's redistribution package)
15:18.57d_rossbergmy package manager doesn't know about it :(
15:19.25d_rossbergi.e. libfreeimage
15:21.40mafmhttp://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=libfreeimage&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all
15:21.52d_rossberg... sorry - wrong search parameters - i claim the opposite - got libfreeimage ...
15:21.55mafmit seems that it's available for gutsy?
15:22.12mafmah ok :)
15:24.26d_rossbergmafm: i could see a window but it couldn't find the plugins
15:24.44d_rossbergbut this is ok because i installed it in a different path
15:25.54d_rossbergi'll have a look at it tomorrow
15:27.44mafmso it aborts, then?
15:28.41d_rossbergyes, i'll try it with the /usr/local path tomorrow
15:29.19mafmah, well, if you install in another dir you have to change the paths in the .cfg files
15:29.31mafmit's only a few of them :)
15:29.57mafmthanks for your patience anyway!
15:30.07mafm(I've got to run to the second interview now)
15:30.19d_rossbergis says: /usr/local/share/g3d/ogreplugins.cfg not found
15:30.33mafmuh, I hope that it's not hardcoded!
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17:24.12mafmhi kcorbitt
17:26.52andrecastelo``Erik: you mean other problems appeared?
17:26.57andrecastelowith the code
17:27.02kcorbitthi
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18:13.46CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32406 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/java/stractNet/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Documentation Change
18:22.55CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32407 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): testing a simple case of implicit constraint : isperpendicular which calculates the dot product
18:48.15mafmgoing home now, take care folks
18:58.49CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32408 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/doxygen_structure: doxygen: vlb / Variable length buffer added to libbu as a group
19:17.42CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32409 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/parse.c: doxygen: @param corrected
19:32.08``Erikstuff unrelated to mlt, andre
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21:54.09andrecastelo``Erik: hm, ok. You think it does not have anything with do with the hit callback functions?
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22:44.49starseekersiggraph:  where does the wireframe drawing code live?
22:45.27pacman87starseeker: rt_*_plot() ?
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23:58.38siggraphyep, plot does the magic
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080813

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080813

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01:36.28yukonbobhello, cadheads
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03:53.52starseeker<snort> If you've got a bazillion siggraph geeks at your hotel, you might want to beef up the internet...
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08:27.25CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32410 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libwdb/CMakeLists.txt: added constraint.c to be in sync with Makefile.am
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10:22.34mafmhi
10:55.06d_rossbergmafm: after putting the program in /usr/local i could start it
10:55.29d_rossbergbut i couldn't find out what it is good for
10:56.11mafmlol, no documentation
10:56.29mafmit has basic infrastructure for commands ("help" in the console)
10:56.50d_rossbergi typed help but it wasn't helpful
10:57.09mafmyou can set different polygon modes, camera modes, etc
10:57.34mafmthe other part that it's pretty complete it is the camera
10:57.45d_rossbergi thought it is a gui for brlcad
10:58.52mafmin progress :D
10:59.00mafmit's missing the connection to libged
10:59.36mafmto translate operations and geometries back and forth
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16:23.09CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32411 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcParser.cpp: shifting bu_vls free so as to free only if vls exists
16:25.14CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32412 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcGenerator.cpp pcGenerator.h): framework and code for a constraint2V object which takes 2 vectors as arguments calling the appropriate function (via pointer) expecting double **
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19:03.58CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32413 10/brlcad/trunk/src/external/ProEngineer/install.doc: Added info about installing the resource files.
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19:34.24CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32416 10/brlcad/trunk/src/external/ProEngineer/proe-brl.c: Replace fprintf statements in proe_brl() with calls to ProMessageDisplay().
20:02.58CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32417 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (5 files):
20:02.58CIA-23BRL-CAD: adding Point and FastF objects analogous to the Vector object, sorry about
20:02.58CIA-23BRL-CAD: r32415 message. It included modifications to Constraint object to support
20:02.58CIA-23BRL-CAD: addition by data structure / pointer to evaluator as well as addConstraint
20:02.58CIA-23BRL-CAD: functionality to VCSet to suport analogous constraints
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21:09.14CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32418 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (6 files): adding functionality to pass information about arguments of a particular constraint; also removed the memory leak by typecasting constraint pointers before delete
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23:11.51CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32419 10/brlcad/trunk/include/pc.h: make the prototypes match, build is still borken though because some structure addition(s) are missing.
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23:19.55madantbrlcad: is the build still broken due to pc ?
23:46.59CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32420 10/brlcad/trunk/include/pc.h: unbreaking build. the struct member addition
23:47.06madantok done. i didnt even realise i had modified pc.h . I thought i was working in libpc directory only. usually i always commit from the root folder.. grr.. my bad :D
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080814

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080814

00:12.43siggraphmadant: I know, it happens
00:12.56siggraphit works now
00:13.58siggraphfyi, that could probably also be a bu_vls -- there are routines to get a vls from an argv and an argv from a vls
00:14.10siggraphto avoid having to manage memory based on nargv
00:14.32siggraphor even needing to know/keep nargv potentially
00:31.49CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32421 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (TODO pcParser.cpp pc_main.c): removal of memory leak by adding bu_free and correcting a copy error
00:33.45siggraphand issues like that :)
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01:16.14geocalc_nick geocalc
01:16.25geocalc_ooo
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01:56.59yukonbobwaves in; "Hello, cadheads"
01:58.50andrecasteloso ``Erik, any clues?
05:01.40CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32422 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcParameter.cpp pcParameter.h): adding iterators to the Parameter class, code transfer from hpp to cpp, commenting
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07:40.06CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32424 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcParameter.cpp pcParameter.h pcParser.cpp): testing Variable reference addition to the Constraint Object using Parameter and VCSet methods, adding display() method to Parameter object
07:40.06CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32423 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcVCSet.cpp pcVCSet.h): adding Parameter related methods to VCSet : gtetParameter() getParaVariables(), modification to display() method, modifying return type of addVariable() functions from void to VariableAbstract *
07:52.33CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32425 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/pc.h src/libpc/pcParser.cpp src/libpc/pc_main.c): simplify pc_param struct by using a void * ptr rather than a union of different pointers
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09:43.19mafmhallo
09:59.24CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32426 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcGenerator.h: correcting assignment, interchanging lhs and rhs
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10:21.36CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32427 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcParameter.cpp pcVariable.h): changing intersection of intervals to assign the stepsize of the intersect and reducing the default size of double variables for testing
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15:09.04CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32428 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcParameter.cpp pcSolver.h pc_main.c solver_test.cpp): actual test of a constraint solution by using the implicit constraint methodology. approaching complete implicit constraint cycle
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16:37.58CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32429 10/brlcad/trunk/src/external/ProEngineer/win32-msvc8/ (3 files in 2 dirs): proe-brl.vcproj has been renamed to proe-brl-4.0.vcproj
16:42.26CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32430 10/brlcad/trunk/src/external/ProEngineer/win32-msvc8/ (4 files in 3 dirs): renamed proe-brl to proe-brl-4.0
16:59.39CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32431 10/brlcad/trunk/src/external/ProEngineer/win32-msvc8/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Added proe-brl-3.0
17:32.56CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r32432 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libtie/Makefile.am: s/BU/BU_LIBS/
18:17.54andrecastelo``Erik: do you think rtmlt shadow issue has something to do with materials? why?
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18:42.16divide_by_zerohello, folks...  how do I _run_  brl-cad??... :]
18:49.30divide_by_zerooh, it's installed on /usr/brlcad...
19:20.25louipcmged
19:30.13divide_by_zerolouips thanks, I found the tutorial and I am rendering already! =)
19:48.35divide_by_zeroI am trying to open a file from a website... what s the "step" format, can I convert it?...
19:49.28divide_by_zerohttp://www.micromo.com/servlet/com.itmr.waw.servlet.Anzeige?fremdaufruf=ja&kdid=40929&sprachid=1&htdigurl=/n112053/i404618.html
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19:55.01louipcI don't think there's a step converter yet
19:56.12louipcyou can do iges though
19:57.48divide_by_zeroI am trying iges, it seems some objects appear, but the main cylindrical body of the motor, for example, is missing... :/
19:58.05louipchehe
19:59.10divide_by_zeroI think I'll need to hack into these files... let's see
20:09.36CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r32433 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (libtienet/Makefile.am master/Makefile.am): lib fixes
21:16.01divide_by_zeroIf anyone manage to convert this file to BRL-CAD, I would be extremely thankful... I can't make it show the motor cylinder, just the top and bottom planes!... :/  http://www.lti.pcs.usp.br/~nwerneck/almoxarifado/1524_SR.igs
21:35.40siggraphdivide_by_zero: for starting, http://brlcad.org/wiki/FAQ  <-- second question ;)
21:37.52divide_by_zerothanks, siggraph . I already started the tutorial... my problem was finding where it was installed... :]
21:42.45prasad1sean: drop by the booth?
21:43.00siggraphprasad1: yeah
21:43.13siggraphtalked to ... jason something
21:43.25siggraphsaid he'd heard of you but he was fairly new himself
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080815

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080815

00:11.22CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r32434 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c: Started moving path building specific code to a third function, that will act as a recursive callback (as ap->a_hit). Still has to be decided where will this function be called from.
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02:38.27siggraph~andrecastelo++
02:38.40siggraphprasad_: presume you saw my response :P  
02:38.43siggraphwanders off to the reception
02:50.13andrecastelosiggraph: :D
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02:53.14andrecastelosiggraph: going home now?
02:53.35andrecastelodivide_by_zero: olá :D
02:53.46divide_by_zerohello, I am trying to convert a IGES file to BRL-CAD. It doesn't seem to be working, and I was wondering if this is a common problem, hopefuly with a solution. The object is a cylindrical motor, I can get some planes with curves over them, but no solids... any hope for me?
02:53.55divide_by_zeroandrecastelo olá... :]
02:54.50andrecastelodivide_by_zero: i'm not very good with modelling, so I can't help :(
03:02.45divide_by_zeroperhaps I am getting that what it calls a "trimmed surface"?...
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03:17.36divide_by_zerohere is how it looks like converting with -t. perhaps I just need to process the file with some program?....  http://www.lti.pcs.usp.br/~nwerneck/almoxarifado/motor.png
03:27.58divide_by_zeroOK, what about this one? I am trying to run this nmg_collapse function, and I get    ERROR: bad pointer x9dbd408: s/b face_g_plane(x726b6e65), was face_g_snurb(x736e7262), file nmg_tri.c, line 444
04:01.57divide_by_zeroouch, even the older version from the debian package gives that, I guess it's just my file that is wrong then... :(
05:48.14divide_by_zerocan someone please try to run nmg_simplify in this file, so I can know wheter is it the file that is wrong, or my system that has a problem?   http://www.lti.pcs.usp.br/~nwerneck/almoxarifado/motor.g
05:49.43divide_by_zeroI tried 3 versions and had similar errors... perhaps is a library I have?... :/
05:51.32Ralithsure
05:51.43Raliththat's some very slow hosting you've got there
05:52.39Ralithdivide_by_zero: ERROR: bad pointer xbc26f00: s/b face_g_plane(x726b6e65), was face_g_snurb(x736e7262), file nmg_mod.c, line 134
05:52.46Ralith(ran nmg_simplify foobar all)
06:05.34divide_by_zeroThanks!... At least now I know I'm not crazy. :)
06:13.57CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32435 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcGenerator.cpp pcGenerator.h): first go at a dimension independent constraint interface similar to constraint2V
06:16.31CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32436 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcVariable.cpp pcVariable.h): adding constantness property and associated methods to the VariableAbstract class
06:25.30CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32437 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcSolver.h: trying to use isConst() for ignoring fixed variables in generic constraint solver
06:32.34CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32438 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/pc.h src/libpc/pc_main.c): trying a wrapper function interface around pc_isperpendicular
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10:23.20mafmhi cadheads
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11:21.18mafmsiggraph: so you're going to change your nick or siggraph conf is still going on? :)
11:22.44CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32439 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CMakeLists.txt: Commenting out unneeded part (at the moment)
11:28.48CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32440 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CameraModeMGED.cxx:
11:28.48CIA-23BRL-CAD: Removing \todo which is not applicable anymore. Rotations were not accumulated,
11:28.48CIA-23BRL-CAD: instead they depended on the initial point of the screen where the mouse was at
11:28.48CIA-23BRL-CAD: the moment of starting, so it caused an strange jump just when starting to drag
11:28.48CIA-23BRL-CAD: the mouse around. There might be other glitches, of course, but the behaviour
11:28.51CIA-23BRL-CAD: described here is not present anymore so I remove this \todo.
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13:25.52diogohey have a question never used brlcad before... is brlcad a good program for CAAD (PS: CAAD is not CAD)
13:25.53diogo?
13:27.00diogoCAAD = computer aided archteture design
13:40.25``Erikit'd be dandy if you intend to push the design through structural analysis sims (fems and such), but it isn't going to give you blueprints
13:41.25diogoI know... just evaluating my alternatives for linux 64 bit
13:41.27``Erik(the historic focus is engineering analysis of pre-existing things, not creating new things)
13:41.36diogok
13:41.42diogothx
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14:03.34donny_bakerbrlcad on vacation?
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14:09.02ubuntuhi, i will study brlcad soon... I see it is impossible to create orthogonal views with dimensions, extracted from 3D... What can I use instead of QCad to create complete drawings with dimensions?
14:10.03ubuntuMy ubuntu 8.04 was needed in xorg-dev and probably m4 to cbe able to compile be ar el cad. only 6 mb to download
14:15.07``Erikwe can do ortho views pretty easy, and we have 'rtedge' to sorta kinda do line drawings, but dimension info would have to be added either to the rendered image or using a 'sketch' primitive in BRL-CAD :/
14:20.48ubuntuI will've learned it
14:22.16ubuntuI consider it is easy to run brlcad even on old machines... Rendering could be slow, but it is faster than AutoCAD for Windows...
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14:42.23mafmhi andrecastelo
14:46.42``Erikhowdy
14:48.02``Erikum, I'm thinking material properties because things like color are stored as materials. My gut feeling is that you're getting one material property hit and setting it, then it just "sticks" instead of being updated for every hit, but I'm not sure how all that actually works.
14:48.21``Erikum, ok
14:51.22mafmcommunication breakdown.
14:52.48``Erik<-- grabs his guitar and jams out some led zepp
14:53.03mafm:)
14:53.43mafmcould you give me some ideas about which functions in libged to implement for g3d?
14:54.03clock_an electric spark led to a zeppelin fire
14:56.34mafm:)
14:59.01``Eriksupposedly the issue with that wasn't the hydrogen providing buoyancy, but the dope they sealed it with :/ conductive and highly flammable, good choice for a huge airship
15:04.20mafmthey were clearly doped, then :)
15:04.58``Erik<-- just uses monokote, way easier to slap it on and hit it with an iron and gun than the cloth&dope approach :D
15:05.04mafm``Erik: the question above about libged functions were mostly for you, the only active gsoc mentor atm
15:05.21``Erikuhm, I've no idea? :D
15:05.50``ErikI haven't even really been following the libged thing, I've been swamped in unfun crap :/
15:06.35mafmI see
15:06.36``Erikthe big point of g3d is just visualization at this point, right? so the query type functionality would be best?
15:07.11mafmquery type fucntionality? I don't understand very well this expression
15:08.52``Erikview_obj, ae2dir, ged_bot_smooth, mebbe ged_decimate, perhaps ged_summary
15:09.33``Erikged_which, ged_who
15:10.04``Erikstuff like that?
15:10.43mafmmaybe
15:11.29mafmthe principle of operation is that you tell libged to do things, then saves data internally, and you can query about what's in there (ged_who, which...)?
15:11.39``Erikthe point of the gsoc effort is to make a geometry interrogator that can later become the next generation editor, right?
15:12.30mafmit could jump that step and try to be directly a ng editor :D
15:12.39``Eriklibged has a fistful of functions that just return info and don't edit anything, so being able to say "show me geometry with region id 42" seems like a logical capability, or "show me all regions made of titanium"
15:13.56mafmhmm
15:13.57``ErikI know a lot of work around here is 'push the button to convert the Pro/E geometry, then go through and changed r31534 to "steeringwheel.r"
15:14.16mafmbut for testing that they are working I would need to create something too
15:14.30``Erikbut this is a special weird environment, not the real world :D
15:15.16``Erikum, to test query functions? you can't load up ktank and pick an arbitrary  material or region id to use? :) or the m35 if you want to have a more interesting target?
15:18.30mafmmmm
15:18.45mafmprobably yes, but I don't know how to do it
15:18.49mafmfiring up mged
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15:19.03``Erikwb, andre
15:19.19andrecastelohi ``Erik
15:19.21``Erik<``Erik> um, I'm thinking material properties because things like color are stored as materials. My gut feeling is that you're getting one material property hit and setting it, then it just "sticks" instead of being updated for every hit, but I'm not sure how all that actually works.
15:20.15andrecasteloi do get a lot of mlibs warnings on rendering
15:20.56mafm``Erik: I load the tank/m35 .g files but it won't show anything
15:21.28``Erikhrm, I have trivial rt I wrote that pays attention to material, but I can't give you the source :/ lemme look to see if I can snip a line or what I did or something heh
15:21.38``Erike all.g, mafm
15:21.54``Erikthe ktank.g is um, "tank g17 computer engine"
15:22.11``Erikthe m35 has a nice all.g which includes a light and half in addition to the truck
15:22.17``Eriktwo lights, rather
15:23.36andrecastelo``Erik: ok, see if you can :D
15:23.44andrecastelothat would be great
15:25.01mafmhuh, neat
15:26.46prasad_siggraph: actually i didn't. got a bsod b4 i saw the response
15:27.22prasad_oh
15:27.40prasad_u talked to a guy who doesn't even work at hq
15:27.41prasad_hehe
15:30.10mafm``Erik: when I open a db in libged, it loads it internally or what?
15:36.07mafmhuh, ged.h is not in very good state it seems
15:49.08``Erikopening a db just gets a file descriptor. loading an object creates the internal representation and prep generates more internal representation (for raytracing mostly)
15:51.33mafmthat's the loadview command?
15:51.43mafmit's the only "load*" in ged.h
15:52.19CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32441 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Command.cxx Command.h CommandInterpreter.cxx Commands.h): Movind Command base class to a separate file, adding a new command to start to use libged
15:52.21``Erik<-- doesn't know, has mostly done librt stuff and hasn't touched mged since before the libged effort :(
15:54.00mafmhmm, libged should have the same commands (more or less) as the mged's command line mode?
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15:55.33andrecastelo_i love my connection
15:56.21mafm\o/
15:58.32CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32442 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GuiCommandOverlay.cxx GuiConsole.cxx): Including newly added file for Command base class
15:59.03CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32443 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/GuiCamera.cxx: Silencing debugging message
16:01.08CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32444 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/CommandInterpreter.h: Movind Command base class to a separate file, adding a new command to start to use libged (forgot to add this file in previous commit)
16:19.50CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32445 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/cmake/UsePkgConfig.cmake: Fix: clearing unexistent variable, go weakly-typed languages go :)
16:47.52CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32446 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CMakeLists.txt cmake/UseBrlcadConfig.cmake): Better support for BRL-CAD library with CMake
16:50.22mafm``Erik: help!!!!
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16:52.47``Erikf1?
16:52.54mafm:)
16:53.13mafmwhat do I have to do to use libged in my program?
16:53.20mafmbrlcad-config --libs ged and so on?
16:53.29``Erikum, should just be a matter of linking it and calling the functions
16:53.34mafmthe thing is that "ged" seems to be missing
16:53.54mafmbu, bn, pkg etc, but no "ged" there
16:56.44``Erikwhat're you talking about, I see it in there
16:56.47CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r32447 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/brlcad-config.in: add ged
16:56.51``Erik:D
16:57.17mafmerm
16:57.23mafmso I have to recompile brlcad?
16:57.41``Erikum, go into brlcad/misc/ and do 'make install', that should be enough
17:01.45mafmdone
17:01.50mafmthanks :)
17:04.30mafmw00t
17:04.39mafmmy first segfault with libged \o/
17:08.42andrecastelo_cya later guys, off to class
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18:18.54mafmsiggraph is dead, long live siggraph :P
18:18.57mafmwb brlcad ;)
18:19.02brlcadheh
18:19.19brlcadnot quite over yet, but had an irssi reset
18:19.28brlcads/irssi/isp/
18:19.33mafmI see
18:20.36pacman87brlcad: i think donny_baker is looking for you
18:20.53brlcadokies
18:21.14mafmI go now cadheads, take care :)
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21:23.17CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r32449 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 4 dirs): added foundation for new point primitive; no functionality yet
21:23.27prasad_so did u see the tech?
21:53.32smurfetteawww where did erik go :(
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22:18.24brlcadprasad_: yep
22:18.48brlcadthough nothing new that's not on the site .. except for maybe the iphone interface which was fun to play with
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23:43.22``Erik*yawn*
23:43.28``Erikbrlcad, the new machine rebooted earlier, I didn't do it
23:43.59``Erikthe log reads like someone with priv issued a reboot
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080816

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080816

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00:27.17SportChickbrlcad: ping
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01:46.15IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/classic.png  :)   a little something :)
01:47.04IriX64Classic
01:47.10IriX64sorry bout that
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07:47.34CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32450 10/rt^3/trunk/src/libGeometry/ (DXFFileParser.cxx NFFFileParser.cxx): adding stdio and stdlib includes for compilation
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080817

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080817

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04:15.36smurfettepee in the ass of the opposition
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13:18.36mafmhi
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14:20.14mafmbrlcad: did you play with libged?
14:41.45CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32451 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcConstraint.cpp pcSolver.h pcVariable.cpp pcVariable.h):
14:41.45CIA-23BRL-CAD: adding constrained_ and isConstrained() methods so as to generate only
14:41.45CIA-23BRL-CAD: variations of constrained variables while using generate-test method.
14:41.45CIA-23BRL-CAD: Significant reduction of sample space in constraints involving higher number of
14:41.47CIA-23BRL-CAD: variables
15:08.53CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32452 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CameraManager.cxx CommandInterpreter.cxx Commands.h):
15:08.53CIA-23BRL-CAD: Adding new commands using libged for getting version, title of a database and
15:08.53CIA-23BRL-CAD: summary of objects in the database; but marking them as WIP -- they don't work
15:08.53CIA-23BRL-CAD: well but I don't know if it's my fault, libged's, or what's the problem.
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15:54.27mafmhi andrecastelo
15:54.51CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32453 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (7 files): testing construction of Constraint object in C++ directly from pc_constrnt data structure in C. constraint2V to be replaced with dimension/arity independent constraintInterface
16:00.07andrecastelohi mafm
16:34.36CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32454 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (4 files): shifting ConstraintInterface code
16:54.09CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32455 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/pc.h src/libpc/pc_main.c): simplifying constraint memory allocation by dividing pc_getconstraint into pc_getconstraint_expr and pc_getconstraint_struct
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18:37.00andrecastelo``Erik: it does seem to be a material problem, lots of error messages coming from mlib.
18:41.52andrecasteloi did include the material setting in viewmlt.c as is in view.c, though, don't know where's the problem
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19:52.43mafmhave to go now, see you
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21:09.56IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/upick.png  :)    (the aim here is to get it running this way completly with a minimal set of sygwin stuff)
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21:52.07andrecastelohi ``Erik
21:52.22andrecastelo<andrecastelo>“Erik: it does seem to be a material problem, lots of error messages coming from mlib.
21:52.33andrecastelo<andrecastelo>i did include the material setting in viewmlt.c as is in view.c, though, don't know where's the problem
23:24.16yukonbobhello, cadheads
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080818

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080818

20:32.31*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
20:32.31*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || Only a few days left in the 2008 Google Summer of Code! || ACM SIGGRAPH 2008 is under way!
20:32.58csanyipalsean: and again, the color of the wireframe is light green, and the object color in the framebuffer is light green too.
20:34.43csanyipalsean: The color of the Geometry Default in Active Pane is red.
20:37.43brlcadcsanyipal: in the screenshot you showed, I don't see a wireframe -- if that was underlay, that's probably a bug
20:38.11andrecastelohey guys
20:38.18andrecastelohi brlcad , hi ``Erik
20:38.22brlcadhowdy andrecastelo
20:38.28brlcadhow goes things?
20:39.03csanyipalsean: it is underlay, because you can see the dot in the center that marks the center of the view.
20:39.31csanyipalsean: so that's probably a bug.
20:39.45andrecastelobrlcad: pretty good :D
20:40.55brlcadcsanyipal: yes, probably -- do you know if that is an ogl or x11 display?
20:41.23csanyipalsean: I don't know how to determine that..
20:41.35brlcadrun "fbhelp" outside of mged
20:41.43csanyipalsean: OK
20:41.45brlcaddoes it list /dev/X or /dev/ogl
20:41.48brlcadfirst
20:43.01csanyipalsean: Description: Silicon Graphics OpenGL Device: /dev/ogl
20:44.20brlcadon linux?
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20:44.36csanyipalsean: Debian GNU/Linux Etch an a Half. :D
20:45.23CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32465 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS:
20:45.23CIA-23BRL-CAD: csanyipal reports that the wireframe is failing to draw when the framebuffer is
20:45.23CIA-23BRL-CAD: displayed in mged (regardless of selecting underlay/overlay) when using the ogl
20:45.23CIA-23BRL-CAD: display manager. problem seen on linux (debian), unknown if it occurs using the
20:45.24CIA-23BRL-CAD: x11 dm.
20:45.43brlcadsince you compiled it, you could try recompiling using --without-opengl on configure and see if that fixes it
20:45.59brlcadthat would help narrow down the problem
20:45.59csanyipalsean: OK
20:46.20pacman87how do i use a checker pattern to test my uv()?
20:46.28pacman87i've forgotten since the last time i used it
20:50.00andrecastelobrlcad: ``Erik thinks that the no-shadow problem with rtmlt is due to bad material setting
20:50.32andrecastelobut i've done the same as in rt, even used the same function
20:51.02andrecasteloanother clue is that rtmlt outputs lots of 'shader not found' errors, while rt doesn't
20:51.19andrecastelodo you have any suggestion?
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21:14.14csanyipalsean: I have compiled now using --without-opengl.
21:15.14csanyipalsean: I noticed that that when I run the command: B shapes2.r then the wireframes changed the clor from red to light green.
21:16.11csanyipalsean: but, now is everything OK!! I can see the wireframe in underlay mode!! :)
21:20.24csanyipalsean: You can see it here: http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kepernyoaa7.png
21:20.55csanyipalsean: Thank you for help! By for now!!
21:22.48CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32466 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: wireframe bug is specific to the ogl dm, x11 is fine
21:24.24brlcadpacman87: you just set a material property of checker
21:24.43brlcador if you want it to look nice shaded, use stack with checker and plastic
21:25.11brlcadwhich is on the edit menu, edit combination, select shader button
21:25.41brlcadanother way to debug the uv mapping is to use rt's 6th lighting model ( rt -l 6 )
21:26.19brlcadthat'll show you the uv coordinates as a blue/red palette
21:29.14Raliththat's odd -- I've been getting the tiny console on open bug almost every time I start mged lately
21:30.07brlcadhm? "tiny console on open"?
21:30.18brlcadnever heard/seen that
21:30.34pacman87brlcad: thanks
21:30.39Ralithbrlcad: I described it to you a while back
21:30.45Ralithcan't seem to work out what makes it happen
21:31.03Ralithwhen I run mged for the first time since reboot it *seems* to happen every time though
21:31.09brlcaddo you have an .mgedrc file?
21:31.19Ralithnope
21:31.37brlcadthat's odd
21:31.52brlcadso it's a really small command window, but graphics window seems fine?
21:31.58Ralithit happens at other times too
21:32.00Ralithyeah
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21:32.05Ralithgraphics window shopes up normal size every time
21:32.29Ralithcommand window sometimes shows up with 0 width and only about 2cm height on my 1680x1050 15" display
21:32.45Ralith(I can still resize it thanks to wm decorations)
21:33.33brlcadi'd be completely guessing as to a cause without being able to reproduce it, :/
21:33.48RalithI know :/
21:34.28Ralithit seems to be happening more often than not today
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21:34.59brlcadRalith: just to annotate -- which os, which dm?
21:35.13RalithFreeBSD, XFCE
21:35.36Ralith7.0-STABLE
21:35.48brlcaddoes it happen with other wm's?
21:36.13Ralithhaven't tested yet
21:36.36Ralithwm at use here is actually metacity
21:36.38brlcadthat's the only anamoly I can think of that would affect window dimensions
21:39.04CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32467 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: Ralith notes that the mged command window is showing up as an empty 0x0 dimensioned window under some unknown conditions.
21:39.17Ralithnot 0x0 -- it has height
21:39.32Raliththought he was clear about that
21:40.25brlcadcontent height or wm height?
21:40.35brlcadI took that to mean wm height
21:40.45brlcadsince the wm will always draw something
21:40.53brlcadsounded like an empty context
21:41.46Ralithit looked a bit tall for that for me
21:41.55Ralithit's stopped doing this in a different dir opening a different file O.o
21:42.18Ralithand in the original case, now, too
21:43.12Ralithanyway, brlcad, it was much taller than I think the wm would make it by default, although I can't speak with certainty
21:43.29Ralithfour or five times the height of the titlebar alone
21:49.48Ralithbrlcad: also, is brl-cad supposed to not support $EDITOR being set to a value incl. arguments (e.g. "pico -w")?
21:50.07Ralith'cuz the way it's calling it certainly doesn't
21:50.51Ralith(when using 'ted')
21:52.14brlcadah, more than titlebar height you say?
21:53.37brlcadnot supporting editor args isn't intentional, though that's the way the shell behaves too -- just try vipw or something similar
21:56.01Ralithvipw launches vi, oddly enough.
22:12.57brlcadnot if you set EDITOR to something else :)
22:13.38brlcadif you're running sudo vipw or somesuch, root's config might be setting it back
22:13.54brlcadbut you can see it if you go root, set EDITOR, and run vipw
22:21.56Ralithvipw: pw_edit(): No such file or directory
22:22.03RalithO.o
22:26.19brlcadcase in point
22:26.34brlcadjust tries to exec whatever EDITOR is set to
22:28.07Ralithkay
22:28.10Ralithguess it's reasonable then
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22:31.20brlcadI wouldn't be opposed to supporting it if you want to patch it, just not sure about the benefit
22:32.23Ralithif it's the way the shell does it there's not really any point
22:32.59Ralithodd that I hadn't noticed that my $EDITOR was broken for this long though O.o
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080819

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080819

00:07.58*** join/#brlcad smurfette (i=Pandora@c-69-247-220-102.hsd1.mo.comcast.net)
00:08.17CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32468 10/brlcad/trunk/m4/ (compiler.m4 epsilon.m4 stage.m4): list the required BC dependencies
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01:03.54pacman87success!
01:05.11pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/rev_rt22.png
01:05.25pacman87uv mapping
01:08.13Ralithyay!
01:08.27Ralithwait, how do you uvmap a non-mesh object? O.o
01:10.47pacman87each face has its own uv-space
01:12.13Ralithso faces are tesselated?
01:12.46CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r32469 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c: rt_revolve_uv() now works, several changes made to how data from the hit is stored in order to calculate (u,v)
01:13.39pacman87well, for the start/end faces, the u/v coords are just the 2d hitpoint scaled by the bounds of the sketch
01:14.25RalithI suppose it doesn't help that I'm not really familiar with UV
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01:17.06CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03pacman87 * r32470 10/brlcad/trunk/include/rtgeom.h: vect_t v is no longer needed by revolve, remove it from rt_revolve_internal
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01:36.57brlcadhowdy punkrockgirl
01:37.13brlcadpacman87: awesome :-)
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02:04.01andrecastelohey guys
02:04.26brlcadhowdies
02:04.45andrecastelohowdy brlcad
02:04.53andrecastelohow are things?
02:05.35brlcadstill decompressing
02:05.46andrecastelodecompressing?
02:05.55brlcaddecompressing after siggraph
02:06.31brlcadletting my brain relax all of the ideas that have built up
02:07.06andrecastelowishes to go next year
02:08.06brlcadtis good stuff
02:08.45brlcadmake your path tracer kick arse, get a paper accepted on it -- then it's much cheaper ;)
02:09.30andrecastelois it possible to write a paper about mlt?
02:09.54andrecasteloi mean, the algorithm is already done and stuff
02:10.22brlcadthere's always ways to improve upon algorithms
02:10.28brlcadmake it faster, better
02:11.47andrecasteloponders
02:27.39yukonbobwaves in
02:27.43yukonbobhello, cadheads
02:29.52Ralithdon't forget prettier
02:36.18CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32471 10/brlcad/trunk/m4/prefix.m4: break the BRLCAD_ROOT and BRLCAD_DATA checks into BC macros so configure.ac can be trimmed down some more. add a pausing statement in order to emphasize the warnings.
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02:37.06CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32472 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: use the new BC_BRLCAD_ROOT and BC_BRLCAD_DATA macros so we can trim down configure.ac closer to 4k. devs will have to run autogen.sh in order to pick up the update.
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03:28.49CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32473 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (NOTES pcVariable.cpp pcVariable.h): adding iterator methods to Domain using boost indirect iterator, :) 1st post-gsoc commit
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03:57.24csanyipalHi
04:09.48*** join/#brlcad punkrockgirl (i=Pandora@c-69-247-220-102.hsd1.mo.comcast.net)
05:24.05CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32474 10/brlcad/trunk/m4/epsilon.m4: BC_TRY_RUN_OUTPUT wasn't set up to take no arguments. fix that so it works with AC_REQUIRE.
05:38.52CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32475 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/generic/ (tcl.h tclInt.decls tclInt.h tclIntDecls.h tclIntPlatDecls.h): argh, quell the fracking warnings even if they will be clobbered.
06:18.38CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32476 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/IDEAS:
06:18.38CIA-23BRL-CAD: make it a little more practical. make it a general 'how to get started' guide
06:18.38CIA-23BRL-CAD: for new contributors instead of a smattering of development ideas. the ideas it
06:18.38CIA-23BRL-CAD: used to have were all already included in on http://brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html
06:18.39CIA-23BRL-CAD: anyways
06:20.23Ralithbrlcad: so did you get that vmath switch into svn?
06:25.03brlcadRalith: ah! that was pushed back into the recesses of my mind during siggraph
06:25.24brlcadran into a regression test failure before leaving so I couldn't just commit it
06:26.14brlcadI'll have to see where I left off
06:27.26Ralithaw.
06:29.21brlcadshouldn't take long
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10:26.36mafmhi
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13:11.42mafm:P
13:11.51mafmmy lab is hiring new network admins
13:12.05tofuis that a good thing?
13:12.16mafm:D
13:12.33mafmjust complaining about them
13:12.41mafmI think that I won't spend much more time here anyway
13:13.03brlcad:(
13:13.31mafmwhy the sad face?
13:13.33brlcadyou were just getting started, doing so well!
13:13.43mafmoh
13:13.48mafmI mean working for the lab
13:13.53brlcadah
13:13.58brlcadthen :)
13:14.18mafmI got a new tempting job offer that probably I'll accept
13:15.05brlcaddoing what?
13:15.27mafmprogramming communication modules of Galileo satellites
13:15.50mafmoutsourcing :(
13:16.19brlcadcould be fun
13:16.42brlcadcould be tedious as hell and not fun too
13:16.58mafmit might be a start as developer, nobody takes me seriously with my foss experience
13:17.13mafmand I'm tired of grid/sysadmin things
13:19.03mafm(go out for a bit)
13:20.24brlcadI highly doubt it's so much your "foss experience" as it is just your experience to date
13:20.39brlcadyou're just getting started in many respects
13:21.35brlcadthere's plenty of people I know that I'd hire in an instant even though they *only* have foss experience
13:31.26andrecastelogood morning everyone
13:31.28andrecastelo:D
13:31.46brlcadmorning andrecastelo
13:31.51andrecastelobrlcad: that's good to know, very good hehe
13:32.06andrecastelo(about hiring)
13:32.12andrecastelomorning brlcad
13:32.23andrecastelohow goes things?
13:32.42brlcadabout ready to get back into the swing of things
13:32.57andrecastelomorning (although in your timezone it's more like afternoon) mafm :D
13:34.04andrecastelosounds good brlcad :D
13:34.51PrezKennedyhey brlcad
13:34.58PrezKennedyhow was siggraph?
13:34.59brlcadhowdy PrezKennedy
13:35.08brlcadwas pretty good
13:35.21brlcadlots of good stuff to be implemented
14:01.32mafmandrecastelo: full afternoon, 15h :)
14:02.31mafmbrlcad: ohloh lists more than 2 years for me, and it's missing some important parts
14:02.42mafmand they don't even like me for junior positions
14:03.48mafmor well, getting only crappy Java/C# financial things, or webservices
14:05.26mafm(new network outage announced...)
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15:51.27brlcadmafm: like I said, just getting started ;)
15:52.27brlcadnot that ohloh stats are any useful basis to hire or put on a resume
15:53.12brlcadI just mean overall quality/quantity of work -- major contributions in oss are just as recognized as having some big-name company on your resume
15:53.25brlcadpresuming you put the effort into it and make it shine
15:53.36brlcadthe new gui has that potential for impact and then some
15:53.54mafmwell, ohloh is just an example, and not just about statistics
15:54.11mafmit also has links for things that you've coded
15:54.41mafmwhich in general is a better idea to look at than making random idiotic tests/questions about pieces of code or what-if questions, I think
15:56.11brlcadsometimes
16:05.07mafmanyway
16:05.46mafmfor initialiting GED_INIT, you have to pass a valid rt_wdb? I'm getting error strings when passing zero
16:06.14brlcadI would expect so
16:07.13mafmwdb_init?
16:07.27brlcadremember what I said earlier, the ged struct is a container for your application state which includes things like pointers to an open geometry file, loaded geometry, etc
16:08.07brlcadso you're basically getting into the librt and libwdb apis now since you're trying to manage that state directly
16:11.36mafmI see
16:13.04brlcadyou'll have to do what mged does in some respects, which for read/write geometry will probably amount to something like wdb_dbopen()
16:13.27brlcadwhich takes a database instance (a db_i) obtained after db_open
16:15.52mafmdoes mged already use libged?
16:16.03brlcadyes
16:16.22brlcadabout 80% migrated
16:16.24mafmoh, I thought that it was independent at this point
16:16.37brlcadnope, it's been hooked into mged from the start
16:16.49brlcadhence all the instability on trunk lately
16:17.40brlcadbob's been refactoring and cleaning up functionality in mged while he performs the migration, decoupling the implementation from tcl, keeping it hooked into mged using the new ged routines, etc
16:29.27mafmI see
16:29.45mafma bit intricated process, but I'll manage :)
16:30.48brlcadyeah, the geometry engine and geometry service are meant to clean up that interface to make it much more simple, but you're ahead of the curve
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16:34.56mafmsooo BRL-CAD always puts the data on disk?
16:35.00brlcadno, you can create an in-memory db
16:36.03brlcadmged manages in-memory db access when you're in an edit state, gtransfer maintains an in-memory db for ray-tracing objects received over the network
16:37.17brlcaddb_open_inmem() instead of db_open()
16:38.19brlcadsee src/gtools/g_transfer.c for sample code
16:50.31CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32477 10/brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: Typos
16:52.55mafmso brlcad, I have to use brl-cad specific stuff in the base classes, right?
16:53.12brlcadwhat do you mean?
16:53.30brlcadwhich base classes
16:53.42mafmlike storing database references in the main classes, Application, or something to that effect
16:53.58mafmbase as in main, basic
16:55.22brlcadit'll obviously have to be stored somewhere -- if you want to do it "right", you could help develop the GE OO layer
16:55.46brlcadotherwise yeah, I'd think you'd have to store them somewhere
16:56.01brlcadeither in a base class or a simple wrapper/container that you write
16:56.11brlcads/base/main data/
16:56.17mafmjust checking that we're in the same page, obviously in this aspect the thin client has to be a bit dependent :)
16:58.09mafmmaybe I should use a class to store GED-related data? it could be a start for GE OO layer (I don't have idea on how to contribute to that at this point, before grasping the details of how it works)
16:58.48brlcadyeah, that's probably a good idea
17:03.49mafmshould I program the communication protocol myself?
17:12.58brlcadno, there's a guy working on the protocol already -- that would be almost entirely wasted effort
17:13.25mafmwhere's that?
17:13.39brlcadit's already in the rt^3 module
17:13.48brlcaddave's working on that part
17:14.59mafmstractNet ?
17:15.55brlcadyes
17:16.24mafmso I shouldn't use libpkg directly?
17:16.59CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32478 10/brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: ttcp wasn't a typo ;)
17:17.53brlcadmafm: you should and eventually will -- just a question of whether you want to do it sooner or later, and what you're trying to accomplish :)
17:18.01mafmit was referring to the command ttcp?
17:18.56mafmwell, I don't have a clear view of the whole picture
17:19.07brlcadstractNet (which shall be renamed, I swear) can be thought of as the communication portion of the GS .. which has to be hooked into the GE as it comes into existence .. which hooks into libged
17:19.33mafmwhen you tell me that the protocol is stractNet, I understand that it's an upper layer above libpkg, so I shouldn't use it directly
17:21.09brlcadyou shouldn't need to use it directly -- the client only indirectly will be interfaced with it through the Geometry Service
17:22.19brlcadbut the point is that those portions aren't yet ready, there's a lot of functionality still be written -- how the front-end actually talks with the back-end, how the GS uses the GE, how GE uses libged, migration of libged from mged itself  ...
17:22.44mafmseesh :)
17:22.52brlcadso if you want geometry to visualize, your best bet for the near time (i.e. sometime this month) is to use libged directly since that's where it starts
17:23.13mafmso I probably should do that, yep
17:23.15brlcadyou're working on a task that has several manyears of effort associated with it
17:23.30brlcadall part of making a powerful new gui
17:23.40brlcadin a scalable fashion
17:24.02mafmFTW-GUI :)
17:24.31mafmwell, so I prefer to be conservative at this point
17:24.41prasad_so the marketing guy dropped by the office
17:24.44brlcadand yes, ttcp refers to the old unix ttcp command used for raw tcp transfers or for "testing tcp"
17:24.50prasad_said a hulk of a man dropped by and mentioned me
17:24.51prasad_;)
17:24.57brlcadprasad_: heh
17:25.24brlcadfeel puny in the muscles atm
17:25.38brlcadhaven't been to the gym in a long while
17:34.46mafmbtw, is there going to be some people working on g3d from this point onwards?
17:34.56mafmI mean, "officially"
17:35.25brlcadall those pieces I talked about directly relate to the editor
17:35.39brlcadjust working on it from the bottom up instead of top down
17:36.19brlcadso as those pieces get finished (later this year is expected for some of them), then the attention is towards the editor
17:36.20mafmI'm talking in the g3d/ dir
17:37.07brlcadit's highly likely that folks will be rummaging around the g3d dir, yes :)
17:37.15brlcadmyself for one :)
17:37.17starseekerjust can't get into this new sourceforge interface
17:37.27brlcadfunky, eh?
17:37.35starseekerwants to figure out why he doesn't have fonts in g3d...
17:37.55brlcadstarseeker: if you have some feedback, I'd be glad to send it forward -- they're asking me how I feel about it
17:38.01starseekerI keep looking at the "at a glance" window sf puts up by default and wanting to shout "I have more screen space, USE IT"
17:38.26mafmnever experienced much of sf's new look yet
17:38.54brlcadwhich reminds me that I have a half dozen e-mails from sf staffers that I *really* should respond to soon
17:39.15mafmso brlcad, is there a need for organized efforts/communication, or just ml/irc channel as usual?
17:39.33starseekerstretches fingers and gets ready to put up some source tarballs
17:40.01brlcadmafm: there is a strong need for that, but that'd still be over ml/irc no?
17:40.41brlcadsome of it is getting some of the big-picture documents up on the site, details into the wiki, a running list of what needs to be worked on
17:40.55mafmstarseeker: about fonts, maybe you could try to compile Ogre (from trunk) yourself
17:41.05mafmand see whether it works better
17:41.48starseekermafm:  That's a thought.  I can compile the one in the rt^3 trunk, although I'm getting a complaint about missing bio.h when I try building g3d
17:43.00mafmI think that it's a missing include in ged.h, I defined a var to 0 to not include Windows things
17:44.45mafmbrlcad: well, my life for the following weeks is more or less like this:
17:44.50mafm- laptop dying at home
17:45.20brlcadheh, ouch
17:45.21mafmI can use it only for 1h30 or so
17:45.42mafmI ordered a new one, but it's going to get to my parent's home by the beginning of september
17:47.42mafmin the meantime I have to find a new flat to live, preferably before the end of the month, and probably it won't have internet
17:47.49brlcada new laptop or a new battery?
17:48.08mafmI think that the problem is the circuit charging the battery, because it won't boot without it
17:48.35mafmand the led for charging battery is intermitent (without regularity)
17:50.04mafmif I start a new job during next week, I don't know if I'm going to be able to connect from there (so at least I can participate a bit in IRC)
17:50.27brlcadthere is the web irc interface if you're blocked ;)
17:50.35brlcadand the mailing list of course
17:51.18mafmand I still hope to visit turkey with the lab in a conference in mid-end september
17:51.36brlcadit's odd that the laptop itself would have a problem charging -- do you have another battery to test?
17:51.42brlcador is that what you're sending to your parents?
17:52.12mafmso I wanted to tell you about this in the case that you want to start participating actively in g3d/ :)
17:52.42mafmnope I don't have batteries, and they cost 100 euros or so in Portugal :S
17:52.52mafmI ordered a new laptop from Dell
17:53.02mafmdoes not recommend to buy Asus laptops :PPP
17:53.46mafmI send it over to there because it's free shipping and I'll be visiting them shortly after shipping it
17:53.54brlcadi'd never buy an asus laptop regardless :)
17:53.59mafmsend it -> asked them to send it there :)
17:54.46brlcad100 eu isn't so bad if the laptop isn't too old
17:55.25mafm2+ years old, half the memory (512 module went away a couple of months ago) :D
17:55.35mafmand I'm not even sure if it's the battery or what
17:55.48mafmtheoretically it should work with the battery removed
17:55.58brlcadyeah, it should, doesn't?
17:56.06mafmand when it's only on battery it works for 1h30, a bit short but "normal"
17:56.13mafmnope, it doesn't
17:56.20brlcadyikes, that's f'd up
17:56.27mafmyep, it's very strange
17:57.06mafmso when I have it connected (with battery + ac), it runs on battery and recharges, but only at 1/5th the speed of discharging
17:57.14brlcaddebates .. hours in gym or hours writing e-mails
17:57.21mafmthen spends all night and next day to recharge to 100% :)
17:58.22mafmI'd say gym if there's some nice girl around :P
17:59.32brlcadthere are always nice girls at one of the gyms I go to :)
17:59.48PrezKennedysigns up for brlcad's gym
18:00.01brlcadnot that I go there for that reason, but eye candy is always a plus
18:02.32mafmwould only go to the gym for the eye candy :P
18:10.50brlcadthinks e-mail may win today
18:20.28mafm:S
18:20.47mafmI think that I got which is the error with ged.h and my libs
18:23.44mafm/* Element names in homogeneous vector (4-tuple) */
18:23.46mafm#define X       0
18:23.47mafm...
18:24.22CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32479 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcVariable.cpp pcVariable.h): storeValue() and restoreValue()methods added to Variable, adding methods to check the position of the present variable value in the domain
18:24.27mafm(in vmath.h)
18:24.36mafmis there a possible way that these can go away?
18:26.50mafmor well, to be undefined by the end of the file? :)
18:45.32CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32480 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcSolver.h pcVariable.h): code for atUpperBoundary, atCriticalAbove and similar functions, modifying the PCSolver to use these methods for the constraint solution
18:48.42brlcadstarseeker: looks good to me
18:48.51starseekercool :-)
18:49.00starseekerdoes happy dance - 1st release!
18:51.02*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || The 2008 Google Summer of Code is complete! *sniff* -- Congratulations deserved all around to our students for their efforts || (Source) Release 7.12.6 posted 2008-08-19
18:54.40CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32481 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcVariable.h: correction to last revision, getStep() defined for Variable
18:55.12brlcadmafm: I was talking about those with ralith just a week ago
18:55.16*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@91.102.231.33)
18:55.24brlcadI have a possible fix, but it's still being tested
18:55.49brlcadit's usually been easy enough to work around the problem or undef in the places that cause problems
18:59.14*** part/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@91.102.231.33)
18:59.39brlcadthere's not much point in having them if they're undefined as they're meant to be convenience indices so that the code is more readable
18:59.50brlcadstill, looking into a possible fix, tbd
19:00.55*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@91.102.231.33)
19:01.04csanyipalHi,
19:34.23mafmbrlcad: I cannot use more libged until it's removed, conflicts with OIS and other Ogre things
19:34.27mafmhi csanyipal
19:36.30brlcadmafm: que?
19:36.35brlcadjust undef them and you're fine
19:36.54brlcadhowdy csanyipal
19:36.59mafmin the .cxx?
19:37.04brlcadafter the #include
19:37.11brlcadbefore including the other headers
19:37.17mafmalso: /usr/brlcad/include/brlcad/ged.h:36:17: error: bio.h: No such file or directory
19:37.43mafm#define GED_USE_RUN_RT 1
19:37.45mafm#if GED_USE_RUN_RT
19:37.46mafm/* Seems to be needed on windows if using ged_run_rt */
19:37.48mafm#include "bio.h"
19:37.49mafm#endif
19:37.51brlcadah, bio.h isn't installed
19:37.57brlcadged.h shouldn't be using it
19:38.17mafmthat's the error that starseeker was talking about, a while ago
19:38.18brlcadthat's a hack bob put in apparently to make windows work
19:39.11brlcadwill have to ask him what the actual error was, could be as simple as a missing io.h
19:40.08brlcadyeah, that was just a hack so he could move on
19:40.30brlcadhe has 300 commands, over 100k lines of code to rework so he doesn't stop to figure out every little issue
19:40.40brlcadwhich ends up leaving turds like that one
19:40.52mafm:)
19:42.30PrezKennedyadvantage of arriving early: leaving early! woooo!
19:42.37PrezKennedyruns home to slack off
19:53.29*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@h-67-103-183-185.mclnva23.covad.net)
19:56.58CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32482 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
19:56.58CIA-23BRL-CAD: make GED_USE_RUN_RT go away. bio.h is a private header and is not installed so
19:56.58CIA-23BRL-CAD: it can't be used in ged.h (which is a public header that is installed). the
19:56.58CIA-23BRL-CAD: ged.h header simply needs to declare and include the headers it uses like any
19:56.58CIA-23BRL-CAD: other interface which includes the ged_run_rt struct if it's a public struct
19:57.01CIA-23BRL-CAD: (and does seem out of place). remove all the associated conditionals that
19:57.03CIA-23BRL-CAD: relate to GED_USE_RUN_RT while we're at it.
20:05.10brlcadmafm: that should do the trick, albeit untested on windows
20:07.55starseekerbrlcad:  What was the name of that book publisher you liked?
20:08.23mafmstarseeker: so one error less for you, I guess
20:08.37starseekermafm :-)
20:08.48CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32483 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/rt.c: merge the two ged_rt_output_handler functions into just one since the _WIN32 sections are relatively small.
20:08.54brlcadstarseeker: blurb and lulu depending on the type of book
20:09.42starseekerbrlcad:  Ah, blurb - that was it
20:10.17starseekerwonders if the owners will start up a company named "blob" as well, just for the heck of it :-P
20:10.56brlcadneat quote
20:10.59brlcad"Good engineering accommodates the errors and omissions of users. Bad engineering relies on laws and conventions to overcome inherent systemic flaws. Laws and conventions are, therefore, indicative of bad engineering."
20:11.32starseekerinteresting, but true only when the laws apply to engineering
20:12.06starseekercan see anarchists wanting no laws at all
20:13.03starseekerhumans just need to be engineered better :-P
20:13.10CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32484 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GedData.cxx GedData.h): Adding class to store libged-related data
20:14.35brlcadstarseeker: 13!
20:14.56starseeker?
20:15.05starseekeris missing context
20:15.11brlcadcommits :)
20:15.51brlcadmafm and dawn are quickly rising up through the ranks too
20:16.01starseekerah :-)
20:16.02CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32485 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (GeometryConversion.cxx GeometryConversion.h): Fixing doxygen/plain comments
20:16.15starseekermafm:  heh, good timing
20:16.27mafmmeh, I just want to get home :)
20:16.30mafm21h16 here
20:16.50starseekerdrools at blurb printing quality
20:16.53brlcadmafm is exactly 100 commits away from entering the top ten :)
20:17.31brlcadtheir new large-format book is awesome
20:17.51brlcadstarseeker: keep "catalog" in mind for sometime next year ;)
20:18.12starseekercatalog format?
20:18.21brlcadI really want to show them how it should be done
20:18.44brlcadthe arl tdc
20:18.51starseekerAh :-)
20:18.52mafmtop ten of brl-cad contributors?
20:19.03brlcadmafm: yes
20:19.33starseekerbrlcad:  The tdc is less fun though - not public
20:19.35brlcadgetting into the top ten isn't so hard, though it gets (almost exponentially) harder to break into each position after that
20:19.41brlcadstarseeker: yes it is
20:19.54starseekerdoes double take
20:19.58brlcadat least we can make one that is
20:20.04starseekerah
20:20.25starseekerHeh - Large format Landscape tdc with high quality rendering... drool
20:20.37brlcadyes, I LOVE that new book format
20:20.49brlcadit came out a couple months after I published mine
20:21.14starseekerwould probably end up replacing the tires on everything for the new book ;-)
20:21.23*** join/#brlcad prasad1 (n=psilva@static-70-108-244-218.res.east.verizon.net)
20:21.40brlcadwould work on getting path tracing working for a new book
20:22.02starseekerboy would that turn some heads
20:22.07brlcadglobal illumination, soft shadows, ambient occlusion, edge overlay
20:22.27brlcadtwo page spread per vehicle
20:22.36brlcadso you can show rendered and hidden-line
20:22.53starseekerwe'd have to juice up rtedge too
20:23.00starseekerrummages for SIGGRAPH dvd
20:23.42brlcadit's a good 90% solution as it is -- there's a few things it could do better but for vehicle size, it'll catch most of the detail needed
20:23.43mafmbrlcad: but I guess that only a small portion of the developers get accounted?
20:24.23brlcadmafm: no, that accounts for most
20:24.39mafmfor all BRL-CAD's history?
20:24.48brlcaddoesn't account for branch development and older contributors that committed via proxy, but that's otherwise nearly everyone
20:25.11brlcadsearch the commits, they go all the way back to 1983
20:25.20mafmhuh
20:25.39brlcadhttp://www.ohloh.net/projects/3996/commits?page=3112
20:25.48brlcadnot enough for you? :)
20:26.17mafmbut if devels don't get registered and claim their account, they are listed as contributors anyway?
20:26.48*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5B14F076.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:27.31mafmoh, it seems so
20:28.28mafm#17 atm :)
20:28.49mafmI would have think that the team was much bigger
20:28.52CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32486 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: credit nicholas reed for his summer coding efforts developing a new point primitive.
20:29.18brlcadnope, the team has been about 5-10 guys for most of its history
20:29.28brlcadthere are 52 or so contributors
20:29.36pooliobrlcad: was that point primitive stuff ever committed?
20:29.44brlcadlots of those are folks that work for a year really hard but then are off on other projects
20:29.50brlcadpoolio: yes
20:30.03pooliodoes it work?
20:30.13brlcadit's incomplete and untested (peer-wise), but it's there and at least worked in demo :)
20:30.28brlcadI believe it actually does work
20:30.32pooliooh cool cool. so the summer students presented?
20:30.33brlcadhe was pretty methodical
20:30.52brlcadI've not been back in yet since my trip
20:30.55starseekerbrlcad:  Does Blurb accept pdfs or do you have to use their software?
20:31.19brlcadstarseeker: you have to use their software, though if you have a pdf it's really easy
20:31.26brlcadthat's what I started with for mine
20:31.32starseekermeh.  Sucks for Linux then
20:31.41brlcadwhy?
20:32.02starseekerHard to submit it when they don't have a Linux version of the software
20:32.11brlcadit's pretty well-designed java software iirc (and suprisingly good/stable esp. for java software)
20:32.20starseekerAh.
20:33.09brlcadit's not like you don't have access to other operating system(s) if needed :)
20:33.40starseekerHe
20:33.42starseekerh
20:33.47starseekertrue
20:34.39CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32487 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Commands.h: Using program-wide data structures instead of testing on-demand ones
20:35.27brlcad99! ;)
20:36.16mafmit's a moving target anyway :D
20:36.35brlcadonly if starseeker gets there first
20:36.46brlcadcjohnson isn't likely to increase his count anytime soon
20:37.01brlcad~seen cjohnson
20:37.02ibotcjohnson <n=cjohnson@71.5.32.3.ptr.us.xo.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 25d 2h 49m 8s ago, saying: 'Is it possible to link the n800 up with a phone, via bluetooth or other, and send text messages?'.
20:37.09brlcadhm, that's not him
20:38.29brlcadoh well, it's been over a year
20:39.17mafm:)
20:40.29brlcadd_rossberg is the other one that might make it there first
20:42.21brlcadif pacman87 would make more succint commits, he'd be nearing the top ten too :)
20:43.14mafmbrlcad: how to print bu_vls? vls_str[vls_offset] ?
20:44.37mafmor esoteric calls like init, bu_vls_addr(&vls), etc?
20:49.26brlcadyou shouldn't access their internal structure
20:49.47brlcadif you want to print one, there are a variety of bu_vls_*() functions related
20:50.13brlcadthat match usual string manipulation and stream printing
20:51.04mafmmmm
20:51.18brlcadbu_vls_addr() will give you a char* suitable for most uses if you need to pass it to something expecting a C string
20:51.40brlcadif you just want to print it, though, you can use bu_log() and the %S will print a bu_vls
20:52.03brlcadwhat are you trying to do with it?
20:52.41mafmbu_vls_addr() to print it in "%s"?
20:52.48brlcadyep
20:52.51mafm(ok, I just read what you said)
20:54.42brlcadif it's a string op, there is almost guaranteed a more suitable/optimized bu_vls_*() routine (e.g. better than calling strlen or strcmp, etc)
20:55.59mafmit's to append it to the output
20:56.10mafme.g. to print the version string, from ged_version()
20:56.19brlcadoutput as in stdout?
20:56.24brlcador some other stream?
20:57.39mafmsome other stream -- to print in console
20:57.47mafm(gui console)
20:59.24mafmanyway, the main problem is taht I'm getting either no results (empty strings) or segfaults :)
20:59.46mafmit's 22h here, I guess that I'll have to leave the quest for top 10 for tomorrow :)
20:59.53brlcadheh
21:00.56mafmanyway, this looks about right, isn't it?
21:00.59mafm<PROTECTED>
21:01.01mafm<PROTECTED>
21:01.02mafm<PROTECTED>
21:01.35brlcadno
21:01.48brlcadbu_vls_addr is guaranteed to not return null
21:01.58brlcadpresuming it has been initialized (which is required)
21:02.30mafmI see
21:02.33brlcadwhich ged_result_str has iirc
21:02.35mafmand the other part?
21:02.37brlcadso you can just use it
21:03.34mafmI mean, it's in there where the output of ged_version is put?
21:04.25brlcadyes
21:04.46*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@123.208.124.191)
21:04.47brlcadthough you do realize that ged_version() is related to the version of a given .g file (e.g. '4' or '5')
21:04.54brlcadnot the version of the library
21:05.13brlcadakin to typing 'version' inside mged
21:05.44brlcadso the gedp that you pass ged_version() needs to have a valid/opened geometry database
21:06.28mafmoh sheet :)
21:07.22brlcadhm, that is an unfortunate point of confusion
21:07.33brlcadthe other libs do have a lib_version() routine that identifies them
21:07.47mafmI'm just trying to get simple commands, to know whether basic things work
21:08.15brlcadversion is a good basic thing
21:08.28brlcadtitle and units are also good
21:09.25mafmI have also title, and it doesn't segfault but doesn't show anything
21:10.31brlcaddid you open something with a title? :)
21:10.39brlcadmged -c db/moss.g title
21:10.45CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32488 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/wdb_obj.c: reword dbversion comment
21:11.27mafmhaven't open anything, but I think that when you provide a parameter it should set it as title
21:12.14mafmhttp://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brlcadtestkw5.png
21:13.14brlcadyes it should/does if you provide a title
21:13.26brlcadbut not if you don't have a db open
21:13.31brlcadit should bitch at you
21:13.42brlcadno messages on your console?
21:13.51brlcader, onto stdout
21:14.00mafmnope, and I print ged_log
21:14.26mafm(just after trying to print the title)
21:14.37brlcadyeah, it's calling GED_CHECK_DATABASE_OPEN
21:14.40mafmand no results either
21:14.56mafmand I open a inmem DB, not one on disk
21:15.16mafm<PROTECTED>
21:15.18mafm<PROTECTED>
21:15.19mafm<PROTECTED>
21:15.21mafm<PROTECTED>
21:15.26brlcadwhat happens if you just bu_log("testing\n");
21:15.49brlcadsounds like it's just going into a void if stderr is gone
21:16.17brlcadah, so you do that first .. that'll pass the test
21:16.31brlcadthat's a valid (albeit empty) database
21:17.37mafmpre-testing
21:17.38mafmpost-testing
21:17.40mafm:)
21:17.44mafmwhat prints in stdout
21:17.57brlcadbu_log will go to stderr
21:18.02mafm(which respectively wrap around the result and ged_log calls)
21:18.20mafmwell, stderr -- I mean the xterm
21:18.31brlcadokay, so bu_logging is working
21:20.03brlcadbu_log("result: [%s]\n", bu_vls_addr(&g->ged_result_str));
21:20.54brlcadafter your three ged_title calls
21:21.01mafmhttp://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brlcadtest2hy2.png -- for reference
21:24.07mafmbrlcad: http://rafb.net/p/YKSlS986.html
21:24.42mafmso it should print that in the gui console, I'd say
21:25.03mafmanyway, almost 22h30 here, I really have to go now
21:25.03brlcadAH!
21:25.09brlcadyou're not reading *which* result
21:25.16mafmhmm?
21:25.16brlcadthere are non-valid result codes
21:25.24brlcadg->ged_result
21:25.35mafmisn't a kind of bool?
21:25.51brlcadno
21:25.55brlcadit's a bitmask
21:25.55mafmgrr
21:26.04mafmjoins C-haters
21:26.06mafm:P
21:26.24brlcadheh, it would be the same in C++
21:26.49brlcader, misspoke
21:27.01brlcadged_result is a result object
21:27.17brlcadthat just means that there is some response returned
21:27.42brlcadged_result_flags tells you what to do
21:27.46mafmwell, you can do that in C++, but you usually have better encapsulation to avoid some errors
21:28.15mafmso I have to apply GED_CHECK_* every time?
21:29.03brlcadfor now, can probably just check if !ged_result_flags instead of if !ged_result
21:29.15brlcadno flags is expected result
21:30.21brlcadmy bad (yet again)
21:30.29brlcadjust check the return code!
21:31.19brlcadresult = ged_title(..);  .. if (result == BRLCAD_OK) ..
21:32.02mafmwhat about outputting logs?
21:32.26mafmthey're only produced when !BRLCAD_OK, or under other conditions?
21:32.49brlcadwhat do you mean?
21:32.52brlcadlike the READ_ONLY?
21:32.58brlcadthat's a BRLCAD_ERROR return
21:33.55mafm<PROTECTED>
21:33.56mafm<PROTECTED>
21:33.57brlcadalso, remember that you're working on "pre-alpha interface", an interface that can change
21:33.58mafm<PROTECTED>
21:33.59mafm<PROTECTED>
21:34.01mafm<PROTECTED>
21:34.02mafmso like this?
21:35.02mafmhmm, it looks like it uses &g->ged_result_str anyway, not &g->ged_log)
21:35.19brlcadyeah, ged_log doesn't make any sense to me
21:35.24brlcaddon't think it's really needed
21:35.32brlcadshould probably go away
21:35.51brlcadit's a log hook needed by the 'log' command so it can capture logging
21:35.51mafmand what about accumulating error strings?
21:36.03mafmresult: [Sorry, this database is READ-ONLYSorry, this database is READ-ONLYSorry, this database is READ-ONLY]
21:36.52brlcadthat's a bug in title, it should bu_vls_trunc(&gedp->ged_result_str, 0);
21:37.03brlcadi'm sure there are a LOT of those
21:37.23brlcaddon't presently see it because the caller (i.e. mged) always truncs it itself presently
21:37.59mafmI see
21:38.07mafmwell so, it's a start :)
21:38.37brlcadyeah, if you set the right mode on wdb_dbopen, it should work
21:40.21brlcadshould be calling db_open_inmem();
21:40.31brlcadah, you are, never mind
21:40.38mafmyay, ged_version at least doesn't segfault!
21:41.03mafmbut it's not very robust, ged_version() in libged doesn't check for missing argument (argv == 0)
21:42.34mafmw00t
21:42.38mafmand summary also works
21:44.41mafmkeey, so almost 23h, enough is enough ;)
21:44.43mafmsee you
21:44.43CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32489 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Commands.h: Fixing libged commands, now they at least give some result and mostly work
21:45.07brlcadsee ya!
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080820

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080820

00:44.32*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177726842.dsl.bell.ca)
00:45.18*** part/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177726842.dsl.bell.ca)
02:24.27starseekerbrlcad:  If the raytracing in BRL-CAD were sped up, would that mess with the benchmarking?
02:49.40*** join/#brlcad jack-- (i=jack@unaffiliated/jack)
02:50.03jack--evening
02:50.30jack--i'm gonna package brlcad for fink/mac os x now, if you don't mind :)
02:51.04jack--seems to have evolved quite a bit, since i tried the last time (7.8.something)
02:52.06CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32490 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcSolver.h pcVariable.h solver_test.cpp): adding insert() method to Solution object so as to simplify the insertion process, code cleanup of Solution and VarDomain in general, both seem to be asking for being de-templated
02:52.32jack--configuration time is like half of what it needed back then, and you even fixed some of the problems yourself (Found -all_load in libtool script, removing)
02:52.41brlcadstarseeker: it would certainly change the results, yes
02:52.42jack--very nice.
02:53.33jack--is there a way to see how exactly you compiled your macosx version? configure options, cppflags etc etc?
02:53.35brlcadstarseeker: though it wouldn't change the fundamental meaning of the number -- the baseline is still a constant baseline
02:53.43brlcadjack--: nice, glad to hear it
02:53.47brlcadwondered how long it'd take ;)
02:54.14jack--it's an ancient ppc, 350mhz ;) configuring took about 14 mins now
02:54.43brlcadone of my test boxes is an old dual 500, takes a couple hours to compile ;)
02:54.53jack--hehe
02:55.00brlcadso I can imagine your pain
02:55.12brlcadprobably looking at 3 hours
02:55.53jack--i'm gonna stash all the binaries into %p/lib/brlcad, and include a brlcad-init.sh to set up $users PATH
02:56.01jack--should be the best way, i guess
02:56.08brlcada standard set of release options for binary mac release is a little tricky to explain given how it packs up the pkg for the dmg
02:56.37brlcadgiven fink is already isolated, you may be able to get away with fink's /sw deafult
02:56.48jack--no need for dmg...fink does all the packaging by itself, resulting in a .deb
02:57.01brlcadi know, i'm just saying the configuration options are different
02:57.07jack--ok
02:57.29brlcaddo you have a /sw/lib/librt* ?
02:57.50brlcador a libbu or a libbn ?
02:58.01jack--not yet, none of them
02:58.02brlcadthose are common conflict libs
02:58.12jack--brlcad will build all that stuff by itself
02:58.28brlcadhm?
02:58.49jack--it found+will use our libz, tcl+tk at least
02:59.12jack--but librt, libbu and libbn aren't in fink yet at all
02:59.19brlcadyou misunderstand
02:59.55brlcadthose three are three of our core libs .. but there are other projects that use same-named libraries, i.e. a *conflict*
03:00.09jack--none in fink, yet
03:00.23jack--so i don't see any possible conflicts to arise :)
03:00.41brlcadit's one of the reasons why we're still not in apt and portage yet -- librt in particular is an old linux lib
03:00.50brlcadalright, well that's good :)
03:00.59jack--macosx != linux ;)
03:01.04brlcadwhat happens if there were a libbu installed by some other fink package?
03:01.15jack--and fink is not debian, even if it uses dpkg+apt
03:01.36jack--that would make me stuff the brlcad libs into a private path
03:01.41brlcadyes.. that was all background info :)
03:01.46jack--but apparently i don't have to
03:01.54brlcadright
03:02.14brlcadand why I brought it up, if there's no conflict then you might get away with the usual /sw default
03:02.57brlcadfor a package management system, though, I would recommend disabling the autodetection
03:03.21brlcadand enabling/disabling along with specified dependencies, so you get deterministic builds
03:04.16jack--yeah
03:04.29jack--check http://paste.lisp.org/display/65559
03:04.57brlcadsomething like --prefix=/sw --enable-optimized --without-opengl --disable-all
03:05.05jack--autodetection is fine, as long as it recognizes everything that's there
03:05.06brlcadthen --enable-* for any that aren't in fink
03:05.51jack--should i enable endgame framework and proe? might be totally useless on macosx
03:06.51brlcad--enable-verbose and --enable-progress aren't going to buy you anything for non-developers
03:07.01brlcadyou can't enable those two
03:07.07jack--ok
03:07.22brlcadyou'd need third-party binary libs to link them, they're plugins to commercial systems
03:07.42jack--those 2 enables are just for me, for exactly seeing what's going on in this first-time-build ;)
03:07.51jack--ok
03:09.03brlcadthen --enable-progress should be enough, --enable-verbose is a meta flag for --enable-progress and --enable-warnings  .. --enable-warnings is pointless unless you plan on fixing isoteric/additional compilation warnings
03:09.18jack--ok
03:09.21jack--why --without-opengl? are there known problems with macosx-opengl?
03:09.31brlcadthe flag doesn't mean what you think it means
03:09.52brlcadwe have our own display manager and framebuffer interfaces that are implemented using various backend libraries
03:10.19brlcadone of them is an 'ogl' layer, which is supplanted by other interfaces
03:10.29jack--i see
03:10.36jack--so it should be using only x11 on macosx?
03:10.39brlcadthe ogl one is more likely going to cause problems as it's out of sync
03:10.53brlcadyes
03:11.00jack--all right
03:11.46jack--did you get rid of SDL completely meanwhile?
03:11.50brlcadit just defines how it 'talks' protocol-wise, doesn't change any end-user functionality nor decouples us from X11 just yet
03:12.02jack--i remember adrt and something else using that, long ago
03:12.14brlcadthat was for one tiny portion, a bit of experimental code
03:12.20jack--i see
03:12.26brlcadthat and java were/are returning causes of confusion
03:12.31brlcadneither are requirements
03:12.39brlcadneither should be listed as dependencies
03:12.39jack--:)
03:12.57jack--sounds like brlcad grew pretty mature in the meantime
03:13.02jack--which is good :)
03:13.24brlcadput a lot of effort in trying to make the build more flexible for the package management systems
03:13.33jack--:D
03:13.51brlcadthere is still at least one issue with incrtcl
03:14.22brlcadit won't behave if it finds a system incrTcl that mismatches with tcl/tk
03:14.33jack--did any other package management system pick it up already? like ubuntu or so?
03:14.54jack--they have zillions of packagers and buildfarms
03:14.56brlcadports was first to integrate, couple years ago
03:15.05brlcad(freebsd)
03:15.12jack--yeah
03:15.20brlcadportage was first to try :)
03:15.43jack--wonder why macports didn't yet ;) considering how close to fbsd-ports they are
03:16.00brlcadbut there a lot more adament about how it integrates with not a strong science/cad core to follow up on it
03:17.00brlcadour portage integration record is several years old, huge discussion log
03:17.19jack--fink should reach enough science folks to generate quite some feedback, i hope
03:17.40jack--i made a couple guys pretty happy when i packaged the current ghemical, for example
03:17.43jack--we'll see
03:18.00brlcadanyways, some tips on integration -- INSTALL actually does itemize the options and attempts to describe them in detail
03:18.11brlcadas well as says how to test/validate
03:18.16jack--ok, cool :)
03:18.35jack--that's more than 99% of the other open source INSTALLs do
03:19.51brlcadwhy I mention it, most get used to ignoring them :)
03:20.04jack--exactly ;)
03:20.27jack--some packages even have 0byte INSTALL/AUTHORS etc files
03:20.44jack--only COPYING and README are used most of the time
03:21.57brlcadoh, fyi a universal build won't work in case you try due to some compile-time settings that haven't been weeded out yet
03:22.23jack--fink doesn't do any universal builds anyway
03:22.27brlcadk
03:22.28jack--i386 or ppc
03:24.24jack--hmm...need to make it use fink's libpng, i guess
03:25.18brlcadbigger question would be why did it fail to detect
03:25.27jack--yeah
03:25.41brlcad(presuming you have it installed)
03:26.05jack--of course ;) libpng is used by a damn lot of other packages
03:26.43jack--i'll patch out all traces of /usr/local, just to avoid random clashes with user-installed stuff
03:28.10brlcadthe BC_SEARCH_DIRECTORY line should be the only one that matters
03:28.26jack--ok
03:28.56jack--i just don't want -L/usr/local/lib to appear anywhere
03:30.12jack--does it properly honor --bindir/--libdir for the stuff it installs?
03:30.39jack--or should i give configure a --prefix=privatedir?
03:30.55brlcadit should and has worked fine in the past, but those frankly aren't common configurations that are regularly tested
03:31.11jack--ok
03:32.19brlcadmged might have some problems initializing as the binaries need to find various resources during run-time, but it'll be pretty obvious if it fails
03:32.42jack--ok
03:33.18jack--that's why i'd prefer --prefix=$finkstandardprefix
03:33.40brlcadI would suggest just trying a default --prefix=/sw if you don't care about potential conflicts or maybe /sw/whatever/brlcad-7.12.6 or something similar to make a version-specific single-root
03:34.26jack--testbuilding with --prefix=/sw now :) conflicts will be dealt with later
03:35.16brlcadmight try installing openssl, I think they maybe have/had a libbn at one point
03:35.35jack--not anymore :)
03:35.44brlcadlibrt is ancient-linux-specific so should be good there
03:36.01jack--how did the google SoC thing work out for you?
03:36.41brlcadstill working! ;)
03:36.44brlcadworked out great
03:36.49jack--cool
03:36.57brlcadall of our students did a great job
03:39.35brlcadand similarly, our mentors did a great job -- think we can probably take on another student next year too
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03:44.11jack--re...damn splits
03:44.12brlcadheh
03:44.12starseekermumbles under his breath about gentoo portage and BRL-CAD...
03:44.12brlcadstarseeker: fix the incrtcl detection and it should be done ;)
03:44.12starseekernods
03:44.12starseekerI really need to try that
03:44.43starseekeris currently slamming through NIRT paper edits
03:44.43starseekerJanine is great at this - far better at nit picking than I am :-)
03:44.43jack--again..concerning libxft - should i try to make it use our pango1-freetype219-xft instead?
03:45.24starseekerbrlcad:  Were there any high level "this should change" thoughts you had on the NIRT paper?
03:45.45CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32491 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: emphasize that the second batch are all optional and try to emphasize how specialized the java portion is (so it should never be listed as a required dependency)
03:45.45starseekerwould like to bounce it past Paul and Natalie and try for form1
03:47.22brlcadjack--: that only matters if tk compiles -- it's a tk dependency that we have to follow through on if tk is configured to use ft (which it is by default)
03:47.35jack--ok
03:48.03brlcadstarseeker: that context has been switched out since siggraph
03:49.59starseeker:-) figured
03:52.06starseekerjust working to get it off my desk and back onto someone elses ;-)
03:56.15brlcadwell, once you finish up janine's edits .. good point to get an update from you ;)
03:57.05starseekergot most of them tonight :-P
03:57.28starseeker's eyeballs need a rest from red now...
04:17.48yukonbobwaves in
04:17.51yukonbobhello, cadheads
04:18.16yukonbobjust finished watching Olympic BMX (never thought I'd hear of that event) -- awesome.
04:18.25jack--cool
04:18.35jack--= fritz the cad, for tonight
04:19.05yukonbobhowdy, fritz
04:19.13jack--^^
04:19.24yukonbobanybody here see Iron Man ( <-- is that a stupid question?)
04:19.34jack--not yet
04:19.41jack--rumoured to be quite ok
04:19.47brlcadhowdy yukonbob
04:19.49yukonbobbetter than ok
04:19.52yukonbobhey brlcad :)
04:20.05yukonbobhave you downloaded your brain after another sigraph?
04:20.10brlcadyukonbob: heh, yeah, I saw it .. pretty good movie
04:20.21brlcadjust about
04:20.28yukonbobjack, brlcad: how 'bout THEIR cad :)
04:20.56yukonbobthose Iron Man "suit" wireframes were very cool.
04:21.19brlcadheh
04:21.43yukonbobjack--: I'd say go see Iron Man, and see it in the theatre if you can -- the lab/VR scenes are worth the big screen.
04:22.00jack--ok :)
04:22.21yukonbobbrlcad: what was the highlight of sigraph for you this year?
04:22.21brlcadit was well worth a theater venture for me
04:22.34brlcadyukonbob: oof, that's a tough one :)
04:22.51yukonbob!!that's a nice feeling to have
04:23.10brlcadprobably a paper on watertight nurbs
04:23.16yukonbobbrlcad: you probably know, but tcl/tk 8.5.4 are out now, too
04:23.25yukonbobhrmm...
04:23.50yukonbobthought nurbs were pretty muck "leaky" in practice -- lots of math fu?
04:23.55brlcadfollowed closely by a follow-up effort to a paper last year on generating cad diagrams
04:24.45brlcadlots of math-fu, yes, and generally require a heck of a lot of effort to make implementing them robust to numerical errors due to floating point
04:25.16jack--opennurbs_plane.cpp:627: warning: comparing floating point with == or != is unsafe
04:25.18brlcadthe paper gave an interesting approach that algorithmically deals with at least a lot of the robustness problems
04:25.19jack--;p
04:25.40brlcadjack--: heh, yep -- and that's from some of the folks that do nurbs best ;)
04:26.04jack--np, as long as it works :)
04:26.50brlcadmm, about 167k lines of code in librt
04:28.00yukonbobbrlcad: somebody must have tried BCD to handle this... you have insight into implementations like that?
04:28.17brlcad~bcd
04:28.25brlcadwhat is bcd?
04:28.29yukonbobbinary coded decimal --
04:28.39brlcadah, there are fixed precision implementations
04:28.43yukonbobused in financial apps to get rid of floating-point errors.
04:29.07brlcadthere's even an implementation that uses brl-cad geometry
04:29.14brlcadresearch effort from several years ago
04:29.21jack--the 6502/6510 even had a D flag for that shit ;) 8bit, but it had bcd
04:29.33jack--almost never used, though
04:29.36yukonbobC=64 ftw!!!!!
04:29.45jack--exactly :p
04:29.57yukonbobmy first (and only) machine language.
04:30.03jack--same here ;)
04:30.13jack--i was a demo/intro coder in the 80s
04:30.14brlcadunc basically implemented exactly what we're implementing now -- just was entirely non-robust and buggy as hell (academic-quality) -- boole
04:30.20yukonbob(yes, machine -- I kept a table of mneumonics, and POKEd programs in :P)
04:30.46brlcadthen unc did the same thing again but used fixed precision (esolid) .. and it worked .. but it was more than two *orders* slower on average
04:31.04yukonbobjack--: nice... did you do the first digital recording I heard of Madonna on the C=64?
04:31.13jack--nope
04:31.18yukonbobheh
04:31.22yukonbob:)
04:31.33jack--the first one to use "samples" was martin galway, back then
04:31.42jack--sounded like crap, but still
04:31.50yukonbobcan't remember much of the C=64 demo scene -- probably more of the Amiga scene, and not much of that, either.
04:32.19jack--martin galway did sounds/music for games, back then
04:32.35jack--"arkanoid" was the very first thing to use 4bit samples
04:32.46yukonbobremembers that name...
04:32.53yukonbob"arkanoid", that is.
04:34.03jack--best breakout clone ever ;)
04:34.22jack--and the only reason to buy a "paddle" from commodore for many people
04:34.38yukonbobbrlcad: hrm... and did anything ever come of it, or is this another case of "First speed, then correctness>"
04:35.09yukonbobis really happy to have been a kid in the Commodore era...
04:35.19yukonbobhad a 4-pen plotter for his Vic-20
04:35.44yukonbobgot into multimedia with the Vic 20
04:36.12yukonbobBASIC on the Vic20, machine language on the C=64, BBS on the Amiga
04:37.22yukonbobbitmapped graphics and animation on the C=64 (sprites ftw!)
04:38.10yukonbobafter the magic of that era, nearly everything since is just "meh".
04:52.29brlcadyukonbob: heh, "did anything ever come of it"?
04:52.35brlcadit's our top development priority right now
04:52.41brlcadso .. yeah, kinda
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04:58.05yukonbobbrlcad: where "it" == watertight NURBs?
04:59.11yukonbobstarts X
05:04.41yukonbobsees BRL Moose...
05:04.50brlcad:-)
05:05.17yukonbobyours?
05:08.32brlcadnope
05:08.37brlcadsummer student
05:10.03yukonbobheh
05:10.26yukonbobso, "top dev priority" == water tight nurbs?
05:10.32brlcadhe came up to speed impressively quickly
05:10.51brlcadwater tight is a requirement of any solid modeling system
05:11.04brlcada firm one, to not be water tight is a bug for a solid modeler
05:11.34yukonbobbut generally, non-CSG modellers are using 'lazy' nurbs though, correct?
05:12.01brlcadno, has little to do with CSG
05:12.28brlcadhas to do with solid modeling, which is one specific part of the overall CAD and modeling industries
05:12.53yukonbobis missing something -- did you you say that NURBs are typically not "water tight"?
05:13.20brlcadwhether a CAD system (which often are also solid modeling systems) is water-tight depends on the system
05:13.38brlcadmost content modeling systems generally aren't, or at least don't have to be a
05:14.03brlcadas content modelers have generally no engineering basis
05:14.34brlcad(examples of content modelers - maya, lightwave, blender)
05:14.41yukonbobright -- but this paper on water-tight NURBs must be pretty impressive to get a spot at sigraph -- so what about NURBs and this paper deserved that attention?
05:15.15brlcadNURBS are *really* hard to make water tight -- particularly trimmed nurbs
05:15.29yukonbobre: maya, blender -- understood; they're for eyeballs, not correctness -- and only "skin" deep (by definition of their design and the models' construction"
05:15.36brlcadmany commercial systems are water tight, but it's not like they want or need to publish how they did it ... ;)
05:15.37yukonbobs/"/)/
05:16.16brlcadothers become water-tight by taking a lot of effort being consistently robust in the implementation
05:16.37brlcador by imposing various editing limitations (e.g. can't have a nurbs surface with an order greater than some degree)
05:17.27brlcadthis paper proposed a solution that involved transforming a trimmed nurbs surface into a different representation type that doesn't have the stitching problem you usually have
05:17.54yukonbobnods -- and so my initial comment "did anything become of it" was re: the system that had 2 orders-of-magnitude performance hit... is that the way that BRL-CAD is currently implementing it's NURBs?
05:19.08yukonbob"correctness" at the cost of "finishing" slower than say Maya.
05:20.05brlcadno, it's not how we do it -- the hit really is impractical for any production use
05:20.20brlcadit'd take days to render an image
05:21.01brlcadhours to evaluate a surface for interactive rendering (we need real-time)
05:22.05yukonbobso that N.Carolina implementation probably has _NOT_ been re-implmented, but stands as an example of how not to do it...
05:22.23andrecasteloreads the email about the C++ geometry engine..
05:22.39brlcadbtw, "NURBS" isn't plural, the S stands for Spline ;)
05:23.16brlcadnon-uniform rational basis spline (nurbs) surfaces
05:23.22jack--NURBSes sounds crappy though ;)
05:23.22yukonbobheh -- well, you can tell I'm out of  my depth here ;)
05:23.41yukonbobNURBS Flurbs -- show me pictures of robots, dammit!!!1
05:24.02yukonbob<-- keen to learn, though :)
05:24.27yukonbobNURBI
05:25.48brlcadthe russian pole vaulter is *hot*
05:25.59yukonbobturns on TV
05:26.18jack--bubka still holds his world record :)
05:26.22brlcadwatching dvr, recorded from a couple days ago
05:26.25jack--after more than 10 years
05:31.28brlcadthat is impressive
05:32.44jack--yup
05:33.01jack--that guy was so much better than everyone else
05:33.07jack--probably without any doping
06:23.23brlcadgets through two e-mails out of 20
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07:03.03Mouetteis the file bu.h define bu_exit()?
07:04.59Mouetteis libbu important?
07:21.20d_rossbergMouette: libbu is essential for librt (and other libraries)
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07:32.07Mouettewhere is defined "htond()"?
07:37.59d_rossbergbu.h, lines 2005 to 2008
07:43.14Mouette/bin/bash ../../libtool --silent --mode=link gcc  -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3  -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -o htester  htester.o libbu.la -L../../src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -ldl -lm -lpng  -lm -lmalloc -lthread
07:43.15MouetteUndefined                       first referenced
07:43.15Mouette<PROTECTED>
07:43.15Mouettehtond                               htester.o
07:43.15Mouettentohd                               htester.o
07:43.17Mouetteld: fatal: Symbol referencing errors. No output written to .libs/htester
07:43.19Mouettecollect2: ld returned 1 exit status
07:44.43brlcadhtond is in libbu
07:44.57brlcadthe libbu.la file should have had it
07:45.47Mouettei can't find the problem
07:46.10brlcadrun that line without the "--silent"
07:46.17brlcadsee what the actual compile line looks like
07:47.20brlcadI suspect maybe someone is dorking with the libtool configuration (again) .. debian devs have it broken by default
07:50.57Mouette/bin/bash ../../libtool --mode=link gcc  -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3  -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -o htester  htester.o libbu.la -L../../src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -ldl -lm -lpng  -lm -lmalloc -lthread
07:50.57Mouettegcc -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -o .libs/htester htester.o  -L/usr/local/lib ./.libs/libbu.so -L/UNIX-LAB/brlcad-7.12.6/src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -ldl -lpng -lm -lmalloc -lthread -R/usr/local/BRL-CAD_7.12.6/lib
07:50.57MouetteUndefined                       first referenced
07:50.58Mouette<PROTECTED>
07:51.00Mouettehtond                               htester.o
07:51.02Mouettentohd                               htester.o
07:51.04Mouetteld: fatal: Symbol referencing errors. No output written to .libs/htester
07:51.06Mouettecollect2: ld returned 1 exit status
07:51.17Mouettethe problem is still exist
07:51.26brlcadthat wasn't to fix the problem
07:51.30brlcadthat was to help diagnose
07:52.13brlcaddo you have another libbu on your system?
07:52.49Mouetteno
07:53.42brlcadhow did you check?
07:54.06Mouettewhat happen if i delete these line with "htond" in htester.c?
07:54.14Mouette?
07:54.53Mouettei don't understand your mean "check"?
07:55.22brlcadhow did you verify you don't have a libbu installed somewhere?
07:56.04Mouettels /usr/lib/libbu*
07:56.37brlcadthere are usually other system search paths -- do you have 'locate'?
07:57.10Mouetteyes,i have
07:57.19brlcadhtester isn't important, you could skip its entire compilation -- but you'll probably just run into the same problem shortly thereafter
07:57.56brlcadedit src/libbu/Makefile.am and change noinst_PROGRAMS to EXTRA_PROGRAMS
07:58.39brlcadstill, something else is wrong for that to be happening
07:59.09brlcadif you didn't start your compile by running autogen.sh, try that (./autogen.sh && ./configure --enable-all --prefix=...)
08:00.36CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32492 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: emphasize some of the configure args that are less important/optional so they show up in the --help
08:01.13CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32493 10/brlcad/trunk/m4/args.m4: use square brackets around the defaults to be consistent with what autoconf does by default and to differentiate from the (optional) parentheticals
08:10.10brlcadwanders off
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09:05.22Mouettetoo many errors, i have compiled failed.
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09:46.00mafmhello
09:55.45*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
09:59.53mafmhi ``Erik
09:59.57mafmbrlcad: are you there?
10:03.38jack--it's early morning in america.
10:03.50mafm:)
10:04.11jack--10:10:00 * brlcad wanders off
10:04.15jack--2 hours ago
10:04.24mafmok, thanks
10:04.49mafmanyway, brlcad is known for his aversion to sleep :D
10:04.57jack--hehe
10:29.10*** join/#brlcad Mouette (n=root@fw1.phys.sinica.edu.tw)
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11:27.47*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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12:22.49CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32494 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (67 files):
12:22.49CIA-23BRL-CAD: Bug fixing: not using argv[0] when argc<1, it tends to be crashy ;) (it happened
12:22.49CIA-23BRL-CAD: to me when trying to use the library). I did some minor normalization in other
12:22.49CIA-23BRL-CAD: commands, initializing the result and so on, hopefully I didn't introduce new
12:22.50CIA-23BRL-CAD: bugs due to poor understanding of the way it works.
12:31.50jack--mafm: linux sucks ;)
13:46.57mafmjack--: huh?
13:47.32jack--not using argv[0] when argc<1, it tends to be crashy ;)
13:47.40jack--happens only on linux, i bet
13:47.57mafmnope, it's the command interface for internal libged (mged) commands
13:48.18jack--oh ok
13:48.26mafmso it's rather C-ish thing, not properly Unix-ish :D
13:48.30jack--yeah
13:52.10jack--<PROTECTED>
13:52.12jack--hrm
13:52.34jack--wonder why it builds without fink, but not when fink does the job..
13:52.56jack--maybe i need to tell configure --with-tcl and --with-tk
13:53.43mafmmaybe, or with --enable-all
13:55.05CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32495 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: Comment typo
13:56.57*** join/#brlcad Mouette (n=root@fw1.phys.sinica.edu.tw)
13:57.50Mouettesince 7..12.4 to 7.12.6, is libbu changed?
13:59.47mafmdoesn't know
14:00.01starseekerI think a few minor changes got pulled in - are you seeing a problem?
14:03.47Mouettein 7.12.4, libbu can be compiled passed in libbu, but 7.12.6 can't.  htester.c code is same.
14:04.43Mouettei have check md5sum, both are same,but:
14:04.59Mouette/bin/bash ../../libtool --silent --mode=link gcc  -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3  -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -o htester  htester.o libbu.la -ltcl8.5 -lpng -lz -lm -lmalloc -lthread
14:04.59MouetteUndefined                       first referenced
14:04.59Mouette<PROTECTED>
14:04.59Mouettehtond                               htester.o
14:05.00Mouettentohd                               htester.o
14:05.02Mouettebu_exit                             htester.o
14:05.04Mouetteld: fatal: Symbol referencing errors. No output written to .libs/htester
14:05.06Mouettecollect2: ld returned 1 exit status
14:05.08Mouettemake: *** [htester] Error 1
14:05.25starseekerwhat platform are you on?
14:06.31Mouettei compile 7.12.6, appear error
14:06.44starseekerWindows, Linux, Mac?
14:06.56MouetteSolaris
14:07.04starseekerAh.
14:07.32starseekerI'm not sure I have a Solaris environment handy
14:08.32Mouettein the part libbu, in 7.12.4 i succed to compile but 7.12.6 failed
14:10.18starseekerhmm - are the Makefile.am s different between the two releases?  let me check...
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14:11.55Mouettesi, they are different
14:16.40starseekerhmm - try swapping in the latest libbu Makefile.am http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/Makefile.am
14:17.29jack--ok, seems like i solved the tcltk shit at least
14:17.38jack--hope the build will finish now
14:19.21starseekerMouette:  IIRC that type of error means it's not including something it should be including
14:20.35starseekernot sure why it would be Solaris specific...
14:21.24Mouette?
14:21.45starseekerI've been doing build testing on OSX for a while now, and it seems to complete OK
14:22.02starseekerI haven't built solaris, so the first thought is there's a solaris specific gotcha somewhere
14:23.40jack--starseeker: mind giving me your os x configure params?
14:23.49jack--i'm just packaging brlcad for fink
14:24.02starseeker./configure --enable-all
14:24.15starseekernothing fancy :-/
14:24.22jack--nothing else? ;)
14:24.41starseekernah - just a prefix parameter if I want it somewhere other than /usr/brlcad
14:24.43jack--it doesn't even find tcl+tk if i don't specify --with-bla
14:24.45jack--ok
14:24.53starseekerwith-bla?
14:24.59jack--tcl and tk
14:25.03starseekerah
14:25.09jack--=%p/lib in fink's case
14:25.12starseekerenable-all pulls in tcl an dtk
14:25.14starseekerer tk
14:25.48jack--are you using fink, macports or none of those?
14:25.55starseekernone
14:26.01jack--ok
14:32.10CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32496 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c: Remove '#if GED_USE_RUN_RT', Sean did the same yesterday in libged but not here, so now it won't compile.
14:36.28brlcadoops
14:36.44mafmsean-- :P :D
14:41.23mafmbrlcad: you might want to check my commit about command args, I'm not sure whether it'll work for all of them
14:41.49brlcadI saw it
14:42.19mafmand after doing all this by hand, I think that some kind of common infrastructure for the commands would be nice to have :)
14:42.37brlcadsomething tells me that needing to add the same five lines in hundreds of places isn't the solution
14:42.51brlcadthere is some common infrastructure already
14:43.13mafmwell, it has same lines for initialiting the result, and for similar feature of showing help when there's only one argument
14:43.21brlcadthere are the GED macros that validate, which would reduce that to a one-liner
14:43.41brlcadthere's a wrapper function that's in mged that does exactly that
14:43.57brlcadit's not been migrated since all the commands aren't there yet
14:44.27mafmoh, nice, so when moved from mged to libged all this will go away
14:44.45brlcadthat is, so that there's be a generic ged_command() or something that would do the callback automatically based on the argv name
14:50.20jack--brlcad: i'm stuck with a weird issue atm
14:51.11jack--when i try to build it through fink, it wants to build its own tk even after i told configure --with-tcl=%p/lib and --with-tk=%p/lib
14:51.19jack--no clue how to get out of that mess
14:51.55brlcadthe config.log should say why it's failing
14:52.16brlcadcan you post it up somewhere?
14:52.36*** join/#brlcad jack--_ (i=jack@e180018009.adsl.alicedsl.de)
14:57.08brlcadthe config.log should say why it's failing
14:57.10brlcadcan you post it up somewhere?
14:58.48Mouettei try to copy 7.12.4's libbu to 7.12.6, still failed .........   :(
14:59.08brlcadMouette: that's a horrible 'fix' regardless :)
14:59.28brlcadit's the bury-your-head-in-sand approach
14:59.58brlcadMouette: you never answered what I asked last night
15:00.36Mouettelocate?
15:00.39brlcadno
15:00.50brlcad04:01 < brlcad> htester isn't important, you could skip its entire compilation -- but you'll probably just run into the same  problem shortly thereafter
15:00.53brlcad04:01 < brlcad> edit src/libbu/Makefile.am and change noinst_PROGRAMS to EXTRA_PROGRAMS
15:00.56brlcad04:02 < brlcad> still, something else is wrong for that to be happening
15:01.02brlcad04:02 < brlcad> if you didn't start your compile by running autogen.sh, try that (./autogen.sh && ./configure --enable-all  --prefix=...)
15:01.11brlcaddid you try running ./autogen.sh ?
15:01.21Mouetteyes
15:01.33brlcadand then make clean?
15:02.05brlcadyou have to clean the symbols out or you're just stuck on the same linkage problem
15:02.12Mouettebut m4 version is less, but i don't update my system m4 version
15:02.33brlcadwhat do you mean your "m4 version is less"?
15:02.35brlcadless than what?
15:03.01brlcadand did you run make clean?
15:03.29MouettePreparing build ... autom4te: need GNU m4 1.4 or later: /usr/sfw/bin/gm4
15:03.29MouetteERROR: autoconf failed
15:03.46brlcadso you *didn't* successfully run autogen.sh ..
15:03.53Mouetteyes
15:04.00brlcadsee, that's very important to know
15:04.30Mouetteso i need try to update the m4?
15:04.34brlcadhelp me help you .. really have to know things like that
15:04.53brlcadyou downloaded a source tarball I presume, yes?
15:05.14brlcadthe libtool script it generates may simply be incomplete/buggy for solaris if it was generated on an older automake
15:05.53brlcadso you really should rerun autogen.sh before proceeding, otherwise you could be chasing a libtool/automake bug that was fixed two years ago
15:06.30brlcadso yes, try to update m4 and anything else until autogen.sh succeeds
15:06.44brlcadstart from a fresh untar too
15:09.41jack--configure: WARNING: Unable to find a system incrTcl compatible with the available system Tcl
15:09.41jack--configure: WARNING: Enabling compilation of both Tcl and incrTcl
15:09.47jack--problem found
15:10.03jack--but we don't have any "incrTcl" ;<
15:10.18brlcaddo you have 8.5 tcl?
15:10.27jack--no, only 8.4 so far
15:10.37brlcadah, then it's completely valid :)
15:10.45jack--will be a couple weeks until 8.5 is packaged
15:10.54jack--what should i do? sit and wait?
15:10.55brlcadsince there isn't a system incrtcl, it has to use ours
15:10.59brlcadours is 8.5-specific
15:11.30brlcadnot our doing, but we have to live with it
15:11.55brlcadI can't imagine that you actually don't have incrTcl -- maybe it's called something else?
15:12.03brlcaditcl? itk?
15:12.19jack--no clue, i rarely dealt with tcl/tk yet at all
15:12.19MouetteAutomatically preparing build ... done
15:12.19MouetteThe BRL-CAD build system is now prepared.  To build here, run:
15:12.19Mouette<PROTECTED>
15:12.19Mouette<PROTECTED>
15:12.23jack--but let me check
15:12.28brlcadeven mac os x ships it
15:12.55brlcadalbeit in a mildly broken manner (they don't provide the damn headers!)
15:13.15brlcadMouette: excellent, that is on a clean untar yes?
15:13.49jack--ok, found /usr/lib/itclConfig.sh
15:13.57jack--how do i tell configure to use that?
15:14.04Mouetteno, now i restart
15:16.11brlcadjack--: alas, that's my point -- it has everything needed to run itcl scripts .. but not compile itcl apps (because of the missing headers)
15:16.26jack--:(
15:16.28brlcadso the itclConfig.sh is useless
15:16.33jack--yeah
15:16.45jack--but why does the build succeed without fink...
15:16.48brlcadshould submit a bug report for that
15:16.51jack--totally confused
15:17.18starseekerbecause it's using its own internal TCL/TK
15:17.26starseekerit detects the problem and defaults to its own copy
15:17.29brlcadthe build should succeed regardless.. it should just enable compilation of tcl/tk and itcl/itk and move on, unless they're forced off
15:18.01brlcadif they're forced off, it 'should' halt configure since it can't do what it was told
15:18.20jack--ok
15:18.39jack--so i need to make sure it builds its own
15:18.55brlcadyeah, add --enable-tcl --enable-tk after --disable-all if you're using that
15:19.04Mouettedone
15:19.07brlcadalong with itcl and itk too
15:20.03Mouetteand then?
15:21.53brlcadMouette: and then what?  after ./autogen.sh you need to run ./configure (try ./configure --enable-all for starters) then make clean && make
15:22.12brlcadthen sudo make install
15:23.33Mouettethis is nocompiled tarball , and it still need make clean?
15:24.02brlcadif you haven't run make yet, then no the make clean is not necessary
15:24.11brlcadit just wasn't clear from what you've (not) said
15:26.10Mouetteneed "--enable-optimized"?
15:29.06starseekerbrlcad:  Poking at this, I'm not at all sure what the tgc primitive is mathematically
15:29.30brlcadMouette: not to get things working
15:29.54brlcadMouette: you will want it for your 'final compile' as it will increase performance by about 2x
15:30.03brlcadstarseeker: poking at what?
15:30.22starseekerunderstanding mathematically what the various primitives are
15:30.40starseekertgc is a tricky one
15:30.56brlcadit's a generalized cylinder
15:30.58brlcadtruncated ;)
15:31.15pacman87thought it was truncated generalized cone
15:31.45starseekeris looking at the Mathworld description of a generalized cylinder and we seem to be even more general than that
15:32.35brlcadyep, they solved the equations for elliptical bases back in the day
15:32.55starseekeryeek
15:33.14starseekerso this puppy is some specific instance of a bounded quadratic surface
15:34.04brlcadhttp://planetmath.org/encyclopedia/Frusta.html relates at a glance
15:35.41starseekeryep - that's for a cone - that's our trc and tec, as far as I can tell
15:36.16starseekerand uses of tgc up to truncated general cone :-)
15:36.58starseekerit's the using two ellipses and having them defining a surface with non-constant derivative in two dimensions that's throwing me
15:37.00brlcadah yes, here's the mathworld, http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ConicalFrustum.html
15:37.59brlcadnon-constant derivative? you sure 'bout that?
15:38.23brlcadeach edge connecting top to base is a straight line
15:38.52starseekernot completely, but look at http://brlcad.org/gallery/s/diagrams/primitives.png.html
15:39.04starseekerthe image of the tgc in the lower left
15:39.11starseekerI'm having a hard time getting a cone out of that
15:39.17starseekeror a cylinder either
15:42.02starseekermaybe the right way to say it is derivatives on the surface in the direction of the major height vector that are different from the slope of the height vector?
15:42.05brlcadcanonical paper: http://ftp.arl.army.mil/~mike/papers/86scotland/out.ps
15:43.16pacman87isnt' tgc a singly-ruled surface?
15:44.06brlcadstarseeker: those are still flat edges all the way around the tgc
15:45.07starseekerTrue.
15:45.08brlcadyou just end up seeing portions in front of the others because they can extend in/out due to opposing radius ratios
15:45.27brlcadwhich is also why you can actually get 4 intersections through a tgc
15:45.37starseekerOK, I'll quit worrying :-)
15:45.43prasad1my raytracer only supports spheres :p
15:45.59jack--imagines a moebius cone
15:46.09jack--maybe i should take lsd more often
15:47.12brlcadand yes, as pacman87 notes -- it's a singly ruled surface (each edge connecting top to base is a straight line)
15:49.10starseekerLooks like it's breaking down fairly nicely into Polyhedra, Frustrums, Closed Generalized Cylindars, Ellipsoids, Tori, and Quadratic Surface Bounded Volumes
15:49.52starseekerThen the composite primitives like pipe, extrude, dsp, part...
15:51.19starseekerWhich corresponds pretty closely to the colors used to group them in the image :-)
15:51.25brlcad~seen jonored
15:51.28ibotjonored <n=jonored@dsl092-076-134.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 8d 21h 58m 18s ago, saying: 'Happily, my school does... worth checking. Won't do anything on my machine, but it's there.'.
15:53.35starseekerwas hoping it could be done somehow using derivatives, edges and whatnot but looks like there's no such animal - at least not without more trouble than it's worth
15:53.50starseeker's head is mildly spinning from the discussion of Algebraic Varieties
16:10.22PrezKennedy~seen PrezKennedy
16:10.24ibotprezkennedy is currently on #bzflag #brlcad. Has said a total of 4 messages. Is idling for 2s, last said: '~seen PrezKennedy'.
16:10.32PrezKennedy:D
16:10.56jack--what a verbose guy you are. ;p
16:12.09starseekerkeeps reading and between Sean's idea page and Mathworld is starting to see Polyhedra, Closed Generalized Cylindars, Quadratic Surface Bounded Volumes and Quartic Surface Bounded Volumes
16:18.01starseekerAh - ha - Flat Surfaces.  There we go
16:18.15starseekerlikes that "click" feeling
16:20.00*** join/#brlcad alex_joni (n=juve@emc/board-of-directors/alexjoni)
16:20.29starseekernow I can look into appendix C of VolII
16:22.12brlcadheh, fun
16:22.38brlcadstarseeker: remember (if you haven't noticed) that most/many of the primitives spell out their implicit forms in the source code
16:22.45brlcadsome of them spell out their parametric as well
16:23.34starseekernods
16:24.06starseekerI was planning to add that - but I wanted to have some kind of mathematically backed way to group them first :-)
16:26.19Mouettelibbu is passed
16:28.19Mouettei still want to know why? the difference between use "autogen then configure"and directly run configure.
16:28.32starseekerHmm - so an extruded sketch is always a ruled surface, if I'm understanding this right
16:30.08brlcadstarseeker: *nod* I'd suggest going a step further than the high-level surface/equation based approach too and think of it more as categories or tags
16:31.30CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32497 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Commands.h: Fixing the commands using libged, they seem to work properly now
16:31.32brlcadMouette: autogen.sh prepares the build system generating Makefile templates, configure, and the libtool compilation script -- it's a rather complicated symphony that all works together
16:32.16brlcadMouette: in particular -- you can run autogen.sh on *any* system usually speaking .. unless there is a bug in autoconf/automake/libtool on the platform you run it on
16:32.37starseekerI can certainly tag each primitive (would be helpful to know it "fits" into a specific category) but I was figuring to use Polyhedra, Ruled Surfaces, Quadratic Surfaces, and Quartic Surfaces as logical sections in docbook
16:33.01brlcadlibtool and the resulting Makefiles have all the logic for how to compile and link the libraries and programs -- it's different for every platform with lots of possible variations
16:33.12starseekerwithin that, each primitive gets its "I am this, this, and this mathematically" tags
16:33.17brlcadfor whatever reason, it was flawed when generated on platform (whatever) and then used on Solaris
16:34.43brlcadstarseeker: only if those top-categories are all-encompassing
16:35.13starseekerbrlcad:  How so?
16:35.33brlcadthey won't get other tags that might be relevant, e.g. whether a primitive can be ray-traced or whether it's finite for example
16:36.29brlcadit's also organizing things mathematically instead of "logically" .. close but not necessarily the same
16:37.07brlcadinstead of reading about a torus and finding out it's a fourth order -- i have to read about fourth orders and find out the torus is one of them
16:37.35brlcadrather backwards potentially depending on their background and expectation
16:37.42starseekerWell, if each primitive has its own sub-section the magic of docbook lets us prepare multiple top level groupings using the same content :-)
16:38.22starseekerMaybe we could have page one be images of all the primitives with a section/page number...
16:38.28brlcadhell, many cad packages refer to the primitives as 'box', 'cone', and 'donut' shapes given the target audience generally doesn't know or care about the math behind them
16:39.28starseekernods - I like the mathematical categorization though as it should scale well - arranging things by "user expectation" has sort of an ad-hoc feel to it unless there is some metric by which they can be sorted?
16:39.32brlcadi can see having a section on quadratic surfaces, ruled surfaces, etc .. but that wouldn't be most intuitive primary grouping that I'd expect
16:39.49brlcadi'm sure you do -- you're a math guy with a strong math background :)
16:40.06starseekerit also tells me which primitives are likely to be harder to work with
16:40.26brlcadagain, that's your math bias creeping in :)
16:40.50jack--gonna package itcl myself now.
16:40.50starseeker:-P
16:40.55jack--damn apple folks.
16:40.57brlcadfor a modeler, it mostly boils down to these types of shapes with those limitations, 2D and 3D
16:41.00brlcadjack--: heh
16:41.24jack--it's ok, macports has that crap already
16:41.37jack--so i only need to distill a finkinfo from their portfile
16:41.54jack--pirating opensource stuff rocks. so legal. :P
16:42.43starseekerbrlcad:  I can preserve the order in Appendix C for the default "book" - or perhaps the best thing to do is ask the modelers?
16:42.47brlcadstarseeker: my point with the tags is that you can get the various groupings if they are employed as tags instead of belonging to groups
16:42.56Mouettecompile finish
16:43.00brlcadthe tags form groups -- subtle inverse relationship
16:43.52starseekeryes, but there still has to be some docbook document(s) that sort things, unless you're aware of some auto-generation based on tags ability I haven't come across yet
16:44.31brlcadstarseeker: layout isn't exactly a modeler's domain any more than gui design is -- once you have something, though, they can certainly give feedback on what they like and don't like about it
16:44.53starseekernods
16:45.28starseekerI guess I can give it a shot, and if I do it right each primitive will be an "atomic" module that can be re-used easily in any case
16:46.38brlcadwell, by tags I more meant that you'd have a 'page' for each primitive, then a container 'tag' page that lists those primitives
16:47.01brlcadwhich in turn lets you have hierarchical groupings and really arbitrary tags
16:48.21brlcad"implemented_by_anderson", "3d", "quartic", "bounded", etc
16:48.21starseekerI think we're on the same page :-)
16:50.14SportChickpouts at brlcad
16:50.15*** part/#brlcad SportChick (i=essy@freenode/staff/sportchick)
16:50.15brlcadthe resulting final document really probably shouldn't present them pre-grouped any more than it does now though
16:50.23brlcad*sniff*
16:51.06brlcadso the current order is probably good for now, especially if all the primitives are included
16:51.20starseeker:-(
16:51.22starseekerOk, will do
16:51.42brlcadyou'll noticed an entire category of primitives missing from the book, they're ones that would otherwise be tagged "unstable" or "incomplete"
16:51.51starseekernods
16:52.03brlcadi'm just talking about the (current) "appendix"
16:52.12brlcadthat is useful in itself
16:52.51brlcadhaving another section/chapter/whatever that describes each primitive, groups them into subchapters by mathematical surface, etc would be fine too
16:53.04starseekerHmm...
16:53.09starseekerponders...
16:53.10brlcadbut secondary value to just seeing all the primitives at once
16:53.34brlcadi mean even when I learned mged, I was constantly going back to that appendix (before it was an appendix)
16:53.44brlcadto find a shape that matched something I was trying to model
16:53.55starseekerright.  I was figuring to do a primitives "article" and then xinclude it like  the lessons
16:54.05starseekeror sections of it anyway
16:54.08brlcadI had no concept of what those shapes were or what they implied -- i was purely visually searching for a rough match
16:54.48starseekerwas using your quick reference card for that :-)
16:54.50brlcadfinishes getting dressed, pops some painkillers, and heads in
16:55.05starseekerheads for lunch
16:55.18starseekergah - how'd it get to be one!
16:55.27starseekerdoggone interesting topics...
16:55.27brlcadexactly
16:55.46brlcadthinks he'll pit stop at pit beef
16:56.31PrezKennedyi want one!!
16:56.50PrezKennedywe dont have anything good like that place here :(
17:03.57Mouettelibtool: install: error: cannot install `tkimg.la' to a directory not ending in /usr/brlcad/lib
17:04.20brlcadMouette: where are you installing to and what was your --prefix ?
17:04.33brlcadsounds like an unclean build
17:04.41Mouette/usr/local/BRL-CAD
17:05.06brlcadso you ran configure once with one prefix and then again with another it sounds
17:05.12brlcadyou have to make clean if you do that
17:05.30brlcadthat first tkimg.la was built with the default prefix
17:08.07Mouettewhen i first run "./configure --enable-all" , then compile looks like succed, so i run "./configure --enable-all --optimized --prefix=/usr/local/BRL-CAD"
17:08.35Mouetteok, i know the problem
17:08.57Mouettetomorrow, i will restart
17:09.39Mouettei will sleep,good night
17:40.52mafmsee you tomorrow, I go to the terrific task of visiting flats :)
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20:41.01starseekernote to self - may need to switch all the sect* tags to <section> - working with xinclude I suspect the explicit identification of depth is going to be too cumbersome.
20:43.36starseekercheck on the formatting consequences of this
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20:52.18andrecastelo~seen ``Erik
20:52.21ibot``erik is currently on #brlcad (9h 24m 34s), last said: 'the log reads like someone with priv issued a reboot'.
20:59.12CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32498 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: Add steps Sean mentioned earlier concerning speeding up raytracing
20:59.48starseekerw
20:59.52starseekerwhoops
21:28.41punkrockgirlandre: are you looking for erik? i know he has been having internet issues, i'll let him know to come find you though :)
21:33.47andrecastelopunkrockgirl: thank you, that would be great :D
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080821

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080821

00:24.27*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
01:42.53yukonbobhello, cadheads
01:58.01*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
01:58.01*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || The 2008 Google Summer of Code is complete! *sniff* -- Congratulations deserved all around to our students for their efforts || (Source) Release 7.12.6 posted 2008-08-19
02:00.28*** join/#brlcad quentusrex (n=quentusr@c-71-197-244-228.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
02:44.11*** join/#brlcad Mouette (n=root@fw1.phys.sinica.edu.tw)
04:41.09Mouetteis benchmark used check the efficient?
04:55.22starseekerIt tests how fast your system runs BRL-CAD in comparison to other systems.
04:59.05Mouettei see
05:06.58MouetteBRL-CAD 7.12.6 for solaris x86 is uploading
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08:12.34brlcadMouette: excellent!
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09:42.53mafmhi
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10:17.14brlcadhowdy mafm
10:17.29mafmhallo :)
10:17.38MouetteMy package is bad in running my another test system Solaris 10 u2, i will restart
10:18.18Mouettei have deleted it in the ftp
10:24.52brlcadnoticed
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11:46.33MouettePackage maybe no problem, the problem is from my system, i am verifying
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12:55.29Mouettethis pkg look like ok
13:23.31brlcadgreat
14:10.24brlcadMouette: so it's ready?
14:17.51Mouetteyes
14:18.51Mouetteand waiting for your validate
14:20.17brlcadk
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16:53.00andrecastelohey guys
17:01.48mafmhi andrecastelo
17:03.27``Erikhowdy
17:37.02mafmwandering off, see you folkz :)
17:46.04andrecastelohowdy ``Erik
19:51.35pacman87will be moving back to austin tomorrow, so i'm packing up now. bye all
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080822

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080822

01:09.28*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo_ (n=chatzill@189.71.62.158)
02:06.15brlcadstarseeker: I uploaded the solaris dist, so forget about it
02:08.55starseekerAh - thanks!
02:10.15CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32499 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: ws
02:12.04CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32500 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: doxygenify the macros
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04:25.51CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32501 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: add a GED_CHECK_ARGC_GT_0 macro to make sure argc is > 0 on all commands. this really belongs in a wrapper function for categories of commands, but it'll do fo r now and is better than having the replication throughout.
04:27.12brlcad~botmail send mafm curious that you only added the argc < 1 check to some commands but not others -- was that intentional?
04:28.06brlcad~botmail for mafm: curious that you only added the argc < 1 check to some commands but not others -- was that intentional?
04:28.11brlcadthere we go
04:28.19brlcadstupid syntax
04:30.30CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32502 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (chgmodel.c chgtree.c cmd.c muves.c utility2.c): quell constness warnings
04:30.44CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32503 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/setup.c: fix/update the function sig
04:31.14CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32504 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (154 files): use the new GED_CHECK_ARGC_GT_0 macro throughout to elimiate the 'invalid command name' block. really belongs in a wrapper, but good enough until there are command categories.
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08:38.30brlcadyawns and wanders on home
09:08.35brlcadyawns and arrives home, ponders foodage
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09:57.10Axman6hands brlcad some corn chips
10:00.23brlcad:)
10:00.30brlcadmunches happily
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10:08.50mafmhi cadheaddies :P
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13:36.17starseekerbrlcad:  Am I correct that the issue with the libpng/dyld confusion on OSX 10.5 is something that will require a fix from Apple?
13:52.20starseekerglares at nmgs and iges-g
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14:01.42brlcadstarseeker: nah, I think there's a way to work around it
14:01.58brlcadbut I haven't had my hands on a 10.5 to even try
14:05.33starseekermmm.  So the bug stays open then.
14:05.35starseekerk
14:07.48starseekerheads in
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14:39.10CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32505 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/autoview.c: "small" is already defined in MS Windows SDK, renamed it to sqrt_small
14:59.39prasad1usain bolt is the man
14:59.41prasad1lol
14:59.46prasad1Bolt tears down the track after Powell and actually finishes in front of the Netherlands.
15:00.31clock_tightens the kingpin bolt on his skateboard and inserts brand new Powell bearings
15:00.56clock_USA in bolt
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17:44.31mafmbye bye
17:50.27brlcadlooks like he finished the apt packaing: http://groups.google.com/group/linux.debian.bugs.dist/browse_thread/thread/983e8306acd1c080?hl=en
18:27.06*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (i=127@resnet-45-219.dorm.utexas.edu)
18:27.11brlcadandrecastelo: it'd be good to have a couple nice high-quality renderings of where your ray-tracer currently sits for a write-up
18:27.16brlcadooh, there he be
18:27.20brlcadsame for you pacman87 :)
18:27.30pacman87hmmm?
18:27.43brlcaddid you happen to see the guy's comment on the mailing list?
18:28.00pacman87i've been out of it for the past 24ish hours
18:28.07brlcadit was a few days ago
18:28.17pacman87checks
18:28.45brlcadit might have been on the forums
18:28.49pacman87i need to pack to leave in half an hour
18:28.53pacman87grandmother's funeral
18:28.56pacman87back sunday
18:29.02brlcadaww, sorry to hear that
18:29.18brlcadforget about it then
18:29.22pacman87when do i need to finish the final gsoc survey by?
18:29.35brlcadlooks
18:30.12brlcadpacman87: looks like the end of the monthh
18:30.26brlcadsept 1st being the eval deadline
18:30.37pacman87ok, it can wait til i get back
18:32.29brlcadyeah, and what I mentioned isn't for the eval -- it's for a report I'm putting together
18:32.35brlcadfor our community and for other gsocers
18:32.51pacman87ah, ok
18:59.16andrecastelobrlcad: ok, will do!
19:01.45brlcadthx
19:15.21andrecastelotruck rendering: http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/169/truckks2.jpg
19:16.28andrecasteloand this is what happens when shadow was supposed to occur: http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/3701/greycornellra2.jpg and http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bluecornelllp7.jpg (blue was set as the 'shadow')
19:16.36brlcadwas more thinking something at 2048x2048, lot more detailed :)
19:17.07andrecasteloand the mlib errors: http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/2043/mliberrorseh9.jpg
19:17.09andrecastelohm i see
19:18.20brlcadmm, looks like you're going through liboptical now?
19:19.33andrecastelo``Erik thinks it sets one material for every one
19:20.16andrecasteloi mean, the same material for every region
19:20.35brlcadmaterials only matter to liboptical, so I take that's a yes? :)
19:21.16brlcadrender onto a white background too, that'll print better
19:22.23andrecastelostill, the material set up is similar to rt o.O
19:23.04brlcadyeah, something clearly is amiss there
19:28.41``Erikmore important, it spews mlib errors about missing material with several 'should be there' mats, so yeah, something missing with liboptical interface
19:30.03``Eriknotes that the "parallel issue" is still there and may possibly be a contributing factor?
19:32.31andrecastelo``Erik: could be, I'll try expanding it
19:37.53andrecastelonotices issues with the file output in rtmlt
19:41.14andrecasteloit may also have something to do with the parallel issue
19:50.42andrecastelo``Erik: what is that parameter to use more threads?
19:57.27``Erik-P
19:57.46``Erik-P8 for example
20:09.14brlcadman rt or brlman rt will list a slew of options that you're getting for free by being an rtui app
20:09.34starseekerbrlcad:  well, it looks like the region_id bug wasn't a bug after all
20:09.50brlcadwhat was it?
20:10.30starseekerthey had a model that did a nasty subtraction of an entire assembly (tree with multiple regions below the top level) and also included the tree they subtracted - using reid on that tree cause multiple renamings of regions
20:11.02starseekerDwayne was getting second hand info, apparently - once I got a direct look at it it made sense
20:11.33andrecastelo``Erik: can you do rtmlt -P4 truck.g g4 and tell me what happens? I've added the bufmode options, and it's drawing nicely with -PX
20:11.49starseekerthe correct thing to do would be to fix the model, but since that's unlikely running reid on the individual subtrees should work just fine
20:12.35starseekerif we wanted to we could make reid smart about not changing the region_id of a region more than once in an assignment, but that may or may not satisfy expectations
20:13.30brlcadmm, interesting
20:13.47starseekerthey REALLY need to fix their subtractions
20:13.48brlcadreid does just do a simple recursive walk
20:14.07starseekernods
20:14.19brlcadiirc it builds up a region list before applying changes
20:14.49starseekerhmm.  Did its behavior change since 7.10.4?
20:15.02starseeker(they've got an old version linked to stable for some reason)
20:15.20brlcadnope
20:15.24starseekerhuh.
20:16.03brlcadyeah, looks like it builds up a final list of regions for all specified tree(s) and then incrementally sets each
20:16.14brlcadin order encountered
20:16.20starseekerdoes it check for duplicate entries?
20:16.22brlcadso hm, if listed multiple times..
20:16.36starseekeris 99% sure that's where the trouble is
20:16.52starseekerit did just fine until multiple references crept in
20:17.08brlcadno, it definitely does not
20:17.10brlcadruns a test
20:17.46starseekerDo we want to?  it might slow things down on big models
20:20.13brlcadhm, that still doesn't fully explain the 32k limit
20:20.25starseekerI didn't see the 32k limit
20:20.35starseekerI think we were getting confused reporting
20:20.41brlcadso then what was the actual problem?
20:20.47brlcadid's that were larger than they expected?
20:21.08brlcadbecause my tests are working and are doing what I'd expect -- they just get incremented multiple times
20:21.14starseekerright - or when they looked at a tree and expected 301, 302, 303... and didn't always get it
20:21.37starseekerThey might get 301, 302, 311, 304, 322, ...
20:21.38brlcadthey'd get 301, 305, 306, 309 etc
20:21.42brlcadsure
20:21.53starseekerI think that's what was doing it
20:22.08starseekerI successfully assigned numbers WAY over 32k
20:22.21brlcad*shrug*, that's not supposed to be a big deal .. the 32k was what sounded like a problem
20:22.36starseekeragreed
20:22.41brlcadthere was a 32k limit in one of the fastgen tools, maybe that's what they were getting confused with
20:23.12starseekercould be.  When I went over the behavior they presented me with as a problem was as described above
20:24.21starseekerI think up until now they've always had well behaved (or at least xpushed) models that did increment in order
20:26.32brlcadnegatives above the region level are usually evil
20:26.55andrecastelo``Erik: i'll commit, apparently it works. Didn't fix shadow or file output issues
20:27.04brlcadbut pretty prevalent unfortunately
20:27.27starseekerwas tempted to call the orca guys and offer to fix the model to make the problem go away...
20:30.59CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r32506 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewmlt.c: Added BUFMODE support to rtmlt: modified view_pixel() and view_2init(). Added reproject_worker() and reproject_splat().
20:33.45starseekercloses bug... yay!
20:38.03andrecastelobrlcad: output to file is a little weird. The bigger the image, the bigger the artifacts and problems (more like, the longer the scanlines are shifted to the right)
20:39.05brlcad~starseeker++
20:39.07andrecastelos/scanlines/lines of pixels
20:39.44brlcadandrecastelo: sounds like you either have a multithreading I/O bug or you're writing the wrong number of pixels per scanline
20:51.47CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32507 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/mged/mged_commands.xml: Add note about correction to VOLII example - error is in pdf so will need to be caught/changed when that command is eventually docbooked.
20:53.10starseekercloses VolumeII arced bug
21:19.10CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32508 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/tclscripts/mged/reid.tcl): (log message trimmed)
21:19.10CIA-24BRL-CAD: add support to get_regions to ignore duplicate regions in the hierarchy so that
21:19.10CIA-24BRL-CAD: get_regions only lists all regions once. this makes it so that reid will
21:19.10CIA-24BRL-CAD: similarly only set the regionID on a region once instead of incrementing it
21:19.12CIA-24BRL-CAD: multiple times (if it was, say, subtracted at an assembly level as well as used
21:19.14CIA-24BRL-CAD: elsewhere as a positive region). this fixes an unexpected behavior reported by
21:19.16CIA-24BRL-CAD: dwayne et al. also made get_regions work on single regions where the only
21:19.51starseekerbrlcad:  thanks!
21:28.57CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32509 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/remat.tcl: refactor remat to use get_regions so that it gets the same benefits of only setting the materialID once per region (even if it doesn't change anything). simplifies the implementation a bit anyways.
21:35.05CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32510 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/remat.tcl: sort the commands by order of use and add db
21:37.18CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32511 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/ (Makefile.am get_regions.tcl): separate out get_regions into its own file since even though it's an under-the-hood devish command, it's useful stand-alone
21:38.06CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32512 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/reid.tcl: remove get_regions from here since it's used in other places now, remove authorship, list all deps
21:44.43CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32513 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/ (help.tcl helpdevel.tcl): move get_regions from being a user command to being a developer command. minor rewordings
21:45.52brlcadgets bored poking on Tcl, looks for some C code to play with
21:46.10starseekerheh
21:46.42CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32514 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: oops, save the file first
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22:21.02starseekerbrlcad:  Looking at the report about attr set region not resulting in attr show  printing a region type identification, I think it's because the dp->d_flags type is not changed when attr sets the region attribute.  Should attr be automatically spotting the setting of region and changing the flag to DIR_REGION as well?
22:22.08starseekerfrom what I can tell, it almost looks like MGED is creating a new region combination to replace the old combination when the flag is toggled there, but I'm not sure yet
22:22.34starseekerlooks at clock and decides he'd better get a move on
22:54.03CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32515 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcVariable.h: stopping the usage of VarDomain class so as to begin support for non-unique solutions
23:06.25CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32516 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcSolver.h pcVariable.h): removal of VarDomain code, testing addSolution method : only Var pointers transfered between solver and solution
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23:35.17CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32517 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcParameter.cpp pcSolver.h solver_test.cpp): passing multiple messages to solution class by modification of the solver, adding numSolutions() method to PCSolver to return the number of solutions found, coding style edits
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080823

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080823

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09:55.51CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32518 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: merge in the 7.12.6 release notes from the stable branch. alas this will mean some manual fiddling to get useful news2tracker data but it is what it is.
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13:09.54CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32519 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcSolver.h: removing unnecessary for loop resulting in multiple addition of the same solution, generator() changed to include certain boundary cases which were being ignored earlier
13:11.27CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32520 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcVariable.h: addSolution() code, Solution::display() modified, operator== for Domain defined
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14:58.09CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32521 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcSolver.h: adding a base Solver class which other solvers inherit, Solver has all the common Solver code; Modifying GT and BT Solvers to use addSolution
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16:00.05CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32522 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcSolver.h pcVariable.h): adding minimize() and maximize() function to Variable; modifying BTSolver and GTSolver to be more analogous to PCSolver
16:01.24brlcadgo go gadget solver
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19:23.07CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32523 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcSolver.h: adding a generic BackTracking solver : independent of BGL
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080824

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080824

00:57.14*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-115-116.dyn.iinet.net.au)
02:58.57starseekergrins as he sees meld has the nice diff graphics (or at least close enough) that show "flow" from one file to another
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12:51.44Axman6hmm, sorry for the join spamming :\
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13:30.42*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@193.137.99.111)
13:31.41mafmhi folks
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15:26.19*** join/#brlcad Mouette (n=root@fw1.phys.sinica.edu.tw)
15:26.56Mouettei notice this:http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=2177261&forum_id=362510
15:28.12MouetteMaybe my build method is not good
15:34.14Mouetteyou tell him: mv /opt/BRL-CAD to /usr/local/
15:36.12MouetteThis is my error method that build package: first compile and install to /usr/local and then make package by using /usr/local to /opt
15:38.01mafmhuh, what are you trying to do?
15:39.06Mouetteyou means?
15:41.02mafmI'm no expert, but I think that you cannot move the installed files from one place to another
15:41.35mafmthere might be hardcoded paths in some places and so on, so if you move the installed files elsewhere, those hardcoded paths won't work
15:43.15mafmthink of the paths that brlcad-config returns, in example
15:43.31MouetteBut when the package install my test system, it is normal
15:43.57Mouettemy test system is a pure system
15:44.34Mouetteso remove those package in sourceforge
15:45.02Mouettethen i repackge
15:45.17mafmI think that brlcad has to do that, I don't think that I have permission to remove packages
15:49.15mafm"You cannot perform file release operations on this project."
15:49.44mafm(nor I should, since I never took care of that and know the policies about releases :) )
16:04.42brlcadMouette: we didn't tell him to move anything -- they said they moved it
16:05.45brlcadyou can relocate the install like they suggest, but it will mean that some things won't work like you'd expect
16:06.03brlcadand you'll have to define to env vars to get some things to work in the relocated place
16:06.59brlcadMouette: what it sounded like is that you did the same thing again where you compiled once with a prefix of one thing and then you compiled/installed again using a different prefix -- so it was messed up
16:07.20brlcadthey fixed it by making a symlink, but you gotta stop doing that :)
16:08.37mafmbrlcad: It's sunday, don't come to work :P
16:08.46brlcadand we don't remove releases, it is what it is
16:09.20brlcadmafm: why not? not that I planned on it :)
16:10.45mafmit's holy day, you shouldn't work on lord's day :P
16:11.45brlcaddoesn't work, he plays
16:11.55mafm:D
16:12.05brlcadis it still work if you really do enjoy it so much :)
16:12.07mafmchatting from lab's 'pooter too...
16:13.21brlcadthat said, I do need to be packing .. this is going to be one heck of a busy week
16:15.40mafm:D
16:15.44mafmme too
16:15.53mafmit seems that I'm staying in the lab in the end
16:16.11mafmbut I wanted to find a new apartment and move in these following 5 days :)
16:16.39mafm(me continuing in the lab is positive for BRL-CAD, I guess)
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16:18.24brlcadah, so moving at the same time :)
16:18.52mafmare you moving too?
16:18.54brlcadyep
16:19.12mafmI already did most of the packing, I don't have much anyway
16:19.16Mouettei have modify the pkginfo and let it install to the same place with build binary: /usr/local, Maybe this is the simplest method, now i have reuploading 7.12.6
16:19.23brlcadcops are getting too close, gotta keep them searching
16:19.34Mouettenow i modify 7.12.4's
16:19.54brlcadMouette: 7.12.6 is posted .. wait for 7.12.8/7.14.0 :)
16:19.56mafmlol
16:20.40brlcadwe don't replace binaries that have already gone out (ever), that's just asking for release maintenance problems
16:20.49mafmnot a problem of the cops, but I don't have TV or almost anything beyond the (now fscked up) laptop, and a few pieces of furniture
16:21.01brlcadunless there is some serious security issue
16:21.16brlcadeven then it's just marked hidden or incremented on a sub-patch
16:21.51brlcadmafm: that's nice .. I have way too much stuff for my comfort (and I'm a pack rat)
16:22.52brlcadmy tv is actually my biggest problem atm .. it's way too big for one person to move
16:23.00mafm:D
16:23.04mafmI don't even have TV :)
16:23.07brlcads/big/heavy/
16:23.37brlcadI can carry a 14" couch on my back, but that tv is a beast
16:23.38mafmwell, I was in a permanent state of indecision for the last couple of years, I'm trying to get to some place that I can call home
16:23.42brlcadand I do hate asking for help
16:23.46mafmthat's also why I don't have many things :)
16:24.18mafmTV from Hell!
16:24.32brlcadI've not staying in one place for more than three years for more than a decade
16:24.59mafmso you have experience in packing, yep :P
16:25.25brlcadcloser to two decades i suppose...
16:25.33mafmthis was my first residence (apart from weeks outside etc) out of parent's home though
16:28.26mafm"8. How much time have you spent working on your SoC project since the midterm evaluation, on average?
16:28.27mafm0 - 5 hours per week / 6 - 10 hours per week / 10 - 15 hours per week / More than 15 hours per week"
16:28.29mafm:D
16:28.41mafmI would have though that they put somewhat higher values
16:28.45mafmlike x3 :)
16:30.57brlcadyeah, but think of it more like an optional choice quiz: all options except one are wrong
16:31.11brlcadso if you answer one of the others, you get reviewed more closely to see what's wrong
16:31.51mafmwho submits the final evaluation, Bob?
16:31.57brlcadyep
16:32.01mafmnobody started yet
16:32.01brlcador me
16:32.11brlcadwe've not started yet
16:32.23brlcad7 days for that too
16:32.36mafmI see
16:32.43brlcadshould be done/started by Wed
16:32.57brlcadhave some discussions and deliberations
16:33.09mafmI want to finish this ASAP to focus on the apartment for the rest of the week
16:40.10mafmdo you still have to discuss about the evaluations?
16:46.17brlcadof course
16:46.50brlcadwhat else?
16:46.54brlcad:)
16:49.31mafmam I going to get my t-shirt?
16:49.44mafmor not known yet?
16:50.02mafmthe t-shirt is much nicer this year than the previous year
16:50.05mafm:P
16:59.43mafm(submited and revised)
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19:32.57brlcadmafm: nice summary
19:33.18mafmbrlcad: thanks :)
19:49.47pacman87is finally back, needs to unwind
19:54.03mafmwelcome back, pacman87
20:48.18mafmI go home, take care pplz :)
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21:42.43CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r32524 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc9/librt/librt.vcproj: Added pnts.c to the build.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080825

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080825

00:13.01brlcadtires of packing
00:34.15Ralithwhere you off to this time?
00:39.33brlcaddunno that yet :)
00:39.43brlcadcloser to the city
00:40.09Ralithyou're already packing but you don't know where to? O.o
00:53.45brlcadyup
00:54.22brlcadfigure i'll shove some stuff in storage, keep some essentials with me, and stay in a hotel until I find something better
00:56.30Ralithwhy the move? Tired of commuting, or something?
01:10.59pacman87brlcad: sounds a lot like moving into a dorm room
01:24.16brlcadRalith: nah, just getting back to my roots in a way (I grew up in big cities)
01:24.31Ralithah.
01:24.42brlcadi've been in suburbia ever since college and been rather dissatisfied with where I've been
01:24.58brlcadcurrent place is actually *really* close to work, just a few miles
01:25.25brlcadthat's why I came here, was just for a year or two (now three, so I'm fed up)
01:25.40brlcadpacman87: I loved dorm life :)
01:26.34brlcadnot that i'm moving back into that crappy or small place though :)
01:26.59brlcadjust something closer to baltimore, maybe on the water if I can find something nice not too far off
01:27.37brlcadfound a really nice house on the water but it's like an hour from work, so that'd suck
01:30.59pacman87brlcad: just dress up a dummy in your seat, and SSH in for everything :)
01:32.14brlcadi do that already ;)
01:32.29pacman87is still getting used to having 37.5% of his former screen real estate
01:46.09Ralithwonders just how much screen real estate pacman87 used to have
01:50.26pacman874480x1050
01:50.37RalithO.O
01:50.39pacman87now just 1680x1050
01:50.44pacman87before was three monitors
01:51.10Ralithepic workstation much?
01:51.21pacman87https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/work.jpg
02:06.30CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r32525 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/make.c librt/primitives/pnts/pnts.c mged/typein.c): added mged make/in support for point primitive: [make|in] <name> pnts
02:10.39Ralithnice
05:27.20brlcadway to go simon clubley!
05:27.25brlcadthat's some good debugging
05:30.50CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32526 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/Makefile.am: use the SSE var so it can be overridden
05:41.41CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32527 10/brlcad/trunk/ (AUTHORS NEWS configure.ac): (log message trimmed)
05:41.41CIA-24BRL-CAD: simon clubly on the brlcad-users mailing list reported and isolated a rather
05:41.41CIA-24BRL-CAD: nasty bug that was causing an 'Illegal instruction' from rt during ray-tracing.
05:41.41CIA-24BRL-CAD: the cause was pin-pointed down to sse instructions getting executed on non-sse
05:41.41CIA-24BRL-CAD: hardware, with gcc generating the code due to the -msse and -msse2 flags
05:41.42CIA-24BRL-CAD: regardless of the local system's capacity to run that code (e.g. for
05:41.44CIA-24BRL-CAD: cross-compiling). commenting out those flags for now (as it's not required) and
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11:42.19CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32528 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/dbip.c: Mods to fix a compile time error: duplicate case value
11:45.41mafmhi ppl
12:13.29brlcadhowdy mafm
12:38.13mafmabout to go Robin-Hood with apartment owners :P
13:34.59CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32529 10/brlcad/trunk/ (16 files in 5 dirs): Added plot, put_comb, putmat, qvrot, red, rfarb, savekey and get_comb functions to libged. Also modified libtclcad/ged_obj to use them.
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14:14.44brlcadmafm: happy trails
14:19.15CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32530 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (8 files): Added call to GED_CHECK_ARGC_GT_0.
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14:19.46andrecastelomorning guys
14:19.52mafmhi andrecastelo
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14:20.23andrecastelogood afternoon, mafm :D
14:22.45brlcadhowdy andrecastelo
14:23.00andrecastelohowdy brlcad
14:23.21``Erikohayo gozaimasu
14:23.33``Eriko'genki desu ka?
14:24.54``Eriknippongo o hanasemasen ka?
14:25.00``Erik:D
14:25.17andrecastelo``Erik: genki desu
14:25.19andrecastelodomo arigato
14:26.39andrecastelo``Erik: 私は日本語を話す
14:26.46mafm?
14:27.01mafmgo wash your mouth, you sinners!
14:27.02brlcadthey've both just been sipping the happy juice
14:27.18andrecastelohahaha
14:27.54andrecastelobrlcad: i've been able to output images only up to 1280x1024, that's why using pix-fb -s 2048 resulted in errors o.O
14:28.45brlcadmlrt -s2048 -o somefile.pix isn't doing its job?
14:29.02CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32531 10/rt^3/trunk/src/coreInterface/ConstDatabase.cpp: handle possible exceptions and return values coming from the callback objects
14:29.33andrecastelolet me get a paste
14:32.28andrecastelobrlcad: http://rafb.net/p/wZalek33.html
14:32.48andrecasteloi forgot the address of BRL-CAD's exclusive paste bin :S
14:35.28``Erikhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/
14:35.54``Erikthinks there should be copious cnames like pastebin.brlcad.org paste.brlcad.org etc :D
14:36.10``Erikpasties.brlcad.org O.o *duck*
14:36.42brlcadthere are, just apache isn't configured to do anything atm
14:36.57``Erikah, waiting on migration for that?
14:37.05andrecastelothere you go http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d2d99158c
14:37.09brlcadrather, not a cname, but points to the ip already
14:38.03brlcadandrecastelo: what's that showing other than a somewhat slow rtfm :)
14:38.26brlcadi see the output file, but that's useless without the command line
14:39.01andrecastelosorry, i used 'rtmlt -s 2048 -o test.pix truck.g g4'
14:40.31brlcadhm, then yeah .. that looks like a bug that you should find/fix ;)
14:40.54brlcadi think that's come up before with other rtuif apps, but don't recall the problem or the fix
14:41.50andrecasteloah ok, thought it was something wrong with the rtuif common files
14:43.02brlcadit may be
14:43.22brlcadthere's no info as to where/what it is at this point
14:59.49CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32532 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/red.c: only need to check argc>0 once
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19:15.24mafmI'm going home, take care
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20:07.41CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32533 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/wdb_obj.c:
20:07.41CIA-24BRL-CAD: Check attributes as well as d_flags when determing if object is a region in
20:07.41CIA-24BRL-CAD: wdb_attr_cmd's show option - should be handled at a lower level in some fashion
20:07.41CIA-24BRL-CAD: since the file shows correct info without this when mged is restarted, but for
20:07.41CIA-24BRL-CAD: now this fixes the labeling issue.
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21:39.01kylecorbitthello
21:39.27kylecorbittlooking at mafm's wiki page he says he sent out a summary email with what he's done/future potential to the dev list
21:39.46kylecorbittI'm very interested in his project - is there any way for me to get a copy of that?
21:40.19kylecorbitt(better yet would be to put it on the wiki, I think there would be other people interested in that too)
21:44.50brlcadstarseeker: tis user-visible
21:45.09starseekerbrlcad:  I know, but I'm trying to do it better
21:45.17starseekerbrlcad:  tops and t are still busted
21:46.17brlcadkylecorbitt: the mailing list archives will have it soon if not already
21:46.23brlcadand the list is mirrored on gmane as well
21:47.00kylecorbittbrlcad: where is the list archive?
21:48.54kylecorbittnvm, found it
21:48.55kylecorbittthanks
21:50.03starseekerbrlcad: what's the right way to do dp->d_flags = DIR_REGION & ~(RT_DIR_INMEM);
21:50.17starseekerIf I try that I get a bu_assert_long failure
21:53.38starseekerwhoops, hang on...
22:01.22starseekergrrrr
22:29.55starseekerbrlcad:  I'm at something of a loss - setting the dp->d_flags directly is what the db_diradd command does, but when I do it on an already existing object it behaves strangely.
22:48.01starseekerAh - HA!
22:53.10CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32534 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/wdb_obj.c:
22:53.10CIA-24BRL-CAD: Revert previous d_flags related check - instead, explicitly set the flags for
22:53.10CIA-24BRL-CAD: the current object when the region flag is either added with argument R or
22:53.10CIA-24BRL-CAD: removed. This is so far robust for the attr show, tops and t -r commands
22:55.13starseekerdoes happy dance
22:58.24starseekernow the NEWS file can be updated
23:04.10CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32535 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
23:04.10CIA-24BRL-CAD: Addressed bug 1918098 reported by David Loman identifying conflicting reports
23:04.10CIA-24BRL-CAD: about object type when the region attribute was set with the attr command - code
23:04.10CIA-24BRL-CAD: in BRL-CAD using the dp->d_flags mechanism to identify type without being aware
23:04.10CIA-24BRL-CAD: of the region attribute would report the object as a combination. attr now sets
23:04.13CIA-24BRL-CAD: the proper flags when the region attribute is either added or removed.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080826

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080826

00:52.28*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
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01:32.41brlcadstarseeker: not sure that fully will do it, don't want to unset flags that might already be set
01:32.48brlcadjust want to make sure those two flags are set
01:33.04brlcadso probably should be an |=
01:33.31brlcad|= (DIR_REGION | DIR_COMB) or whatever it is
01:33.42starseekerOK, I'll give that a test
01:33.43brlcader
01:34.12brlcad|= (DIR_REGION & DIR_COMB)  .. might want to make sure the bit-logic is right ;)
01:34.28starseekerdoesn't quite understand the bit logic...
01:34.31brlcader, I had that right the first time, jeez
01:34.36starseekerthought so
01:34.50starseekerlet me check in something quick, and I'll test that out
01:35.57brlcadthe only thing that comes to mind presently would be an inmem object, which I don't know how you'd get at one via attr
01:36.27brlcadbut that's the sort of detail that becomes a *really* obscure nasty hard bug to find several years later when someone does make it possible
01:36.27CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32536 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/wdb_obj.c: Add -nonstd and -shader options to attr command to list all objects with nonstandard attributes and all objects with shaders.
01:37.52brlcadblech, those aren't really generalized
01:39.01brlcadseriously need a 'find' command
01:39.25starseekerI can roll it back if you want - I was just looking at Dwayne's feature request in the tracker
01:40.41brlcadI know, it's been requested for years .. it's just a small can of worms
01:42.49starseekerThe |= looks OK for adding the region attribute, but doesn't hack it for deleting
01:43.20starseekerIs there a "remove DIR_REGION" operation?
01:44.26brlcadit'll be something like & ~(DIR_REGION)
01:44.36brlcadyou and the negation
01:44.50brlcadthat unsets just that bit
01:45.22brlcadwhich is what you saw earlier: dp->d_flags = DIR_REGION & ~(RT_DIR_INMEM);
01:45.30starseekerAh
01:45.37brlcadsetting region and unsetting the inmem bit if it was set
01:46.00brlcadactually not quite in that case since it's just =
01:46.18brlcadsame across the DIR_REGION value though
01:47.14brlcadthat dp->d_flags = DIR_REGION & ~(RT_DIR_INMEM) line is mildly suspicious actually
01:47.34brlcadstops thinking about it
01:47.53starseekerSo you're thinking  dp->d_flags |= DIR_COMB & ~(DIR_REGION);
01:50.29starseekerwhoops, that doesn't do it...
01:54.38CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32537 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/wdb_obj.c: fine tuning the setting of the d_flags for attr
01:55.32brlcadmore like dp->d_flags = dp->d_flags & ~(DIR_REGION)
01:55.48starseekerbrlcad:  should I revert the nonstd and shaders options?
01:56.03brlcadI think you should write a find command
01:56.29brlcadwould be the greatest new command addition, deprecating out a dozen or so others
01:56.57brlcadthen having those sorts of customized searches fits in pattern-wize
01:57.08starseekernods.
01:57.22starseekerOK, let me untangle the patch quick...
01:57.25brlcadi now, it's more work an dyou were looking for th equick fix
01:57.40brlcadjeez, i must be tired
01:57.54starseekerblinks
01:58.03starseekercome again?
01:58.20brlcadi mean.. i know, it's more work and you were looking for a quick fix
01:58.24starseekerAh :-)
01:59.05starseekerlooked simple and I thought it would look good to kill such a long standing request, but I shoulda know there was a reason ;-)
01:59.13brlcadif it's any incentive, though, the need comes up several times every year
02:02.06CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32538 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/wdb_obj.c: Remove -nonstd & -shader options for attr per Sean - need a more general find command as a solution.
02:02.13starseekerI think that pulls it out
02:02.50starseekerwill look into a find command tomorrow
02:02.55brlcadfind / -region no
02:03.25brlcadfind / -not -stdattr
02:06.34brlcadfind /path/to/assembly -not -regex '.*\.r' -name '*_left" -delete
02:06.46brlcadsuch a powerful command :)
02:07.15starseekergets the feeling this is more than a one day command
02:07.55brlcadin this case, it's be worth a month if you ended up with the command
02:08.12starseekerok :-)
02:09.16CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32539 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/wdb_obj.c: a few more wdb_attr_cmd cleanups
02:09.45starseekerOK, I think that gets us to "just what's needed to fix the attr show & t -r & tops behavior"
02:10.07starseekershould read the find manual in depth now...
02:10.27starseekersorry to rush in headlong on the attr options brlcad
02:10.44brlcadcould put a todo (in src or TODO if it's worth it) for whatever the next step is
02:11.17brlcadno need to be sorry
02:11.34starseekerk.  I'm also going to make a note on Dwayne's bug so someone else doesn't fall into the same trap
02:11.36brlcadi never actually said pull it .. it just really is a can of worms :)
02:11.44brlcadi just would complain a lot
02:11.53starseekerheh - I noticed ;-)
02:12.26starseekerbut it would be user visible, which means I'd have to admit it's there, which means it would become a barnicle to be scraped off once find is written ;-)
02:12.39starseekerso the solution is to write find quickly
02:12.43brlcada new find command is actually pretty exciting
02:14.55starseekeronce libregex and searching the database are in hand it should be mainly a question of lots of syntax support, correct?
02:15.16starseekeri.e., those options were in essense (very) small pieces of what will ultimately be needed?
02:15.19brlcadif I could only have one unix-command and I had a filesystem full of data to manage, find would probably be it
02:16.08starseekerthat's a pretty compelling argument
02:16.17brlcadfirst off, though -- do you know how to use find yourself already?
02:16.34starseekernot well - that's why my first stop will be the find man page for an in-depth read
02:16.36brlcadif not, you should probably take a couple days and learn it first
02:17.13starseekersenses a docbook doc at the end of this... my sympathies to brlcad in advance ;-)
02:18.27starseekerAh, well - at least one bug was closed.
02:19.36brlcadfind / -name \*\.r -exec cp {} {}.bak \; -exec facetize {}.bot {} \;
02:19.46brlcadwhoosh! .. damn will that be powerful
02:20.40brlcadand you can probably even find a bsd implementation that you could start from
02:20.55starseekerthat will help :-)
02:21.26brlcadbut yeah, to your earlier question -- you basically end up needing to write a pretty flexible argument parser for the syntax/options and then little snippets of logic for each rule
02:22.18CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32540 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: Add TODO item for BRL-CAD find command
02:22.21brlcadthe arguments just become a filter/stream/stack/whatever on objects and then there are optional actions (with the default being "print it")
02:22.35brlcadwasn't already in there?
02:22.46starseekerdidn't see it
02:22.49starseekerlooks agin
02:22.51brlcadhuh, k
02:23.12starseekerjust grepped for "find"
02:23.33starseekerbrain fried ;-)
02:23.56starseekerwas actually quite pleased to get even the limited searches working, so find should be Fun :-)
02:24.46starseekeridly wonders if it's possible to have a find syntax for "all objects inside box"
02:25.18brlcadprobably even worthy of a dev doc on the wiki to sort out just which options to find you intend to implement first
02:25.34starseekernods - sounds good
02:25.44brlcadsince there are too many to implement all of them, some that can't be implemented, and a few brl-cad specific ones that would be needed
02:27.11starseekerhas evil thought - have a "find_box" object in MGED, movable like any arb8, and then have a find option to list all objects inside that box, wherever the box is a the time the find command is run
02:29.14brlcadyeah, that'd probably fall into the third category
02:29.18brlcadgeometry-specific options
02:29.44brlcadfind / -bbox x1,y1,z1,x2,y2,z2
02:29.57starseeker:-)
02:30.38starseekerthat could help when pruning meshes - "execute a kill on all meshes inside this box"
02:30.49starseekeror mesh points rather
02:31.29brlcadfind / -bbox x1,y1,z1,x2,y2,z2 -type bot -exec kill {} \;
02:32.10starseekerhas a feeling Dwayne would be doing scary scary stuff with that kind of power ;-)
02:32.33brlcadit's uber powerful scripting without all the scripting
02:34.38brlcadthe remat command could have been a simple find one-liner, find assembly -type region -exec attr set {} material_id 10 \;
02:35.37brlcadcourse the really frequently used commands still have brevity and simplicity on their side, as remat does in that case: remat assembly 10
02:35.58starseekercreate colored object lines through a model: find / nirt -b -e dir 10 10 10 -type region -exec mater shader rgb 255/255/255 {} \; or some such :-)
02:36.02starseekernods
02:36.23brlcadbut it's *very* specific to that action only, if I want even the slightest variant (maybe set the los), I can't
02:36.47starseekerheck, some of those commands could become wrappers around the find command
02:37.05starseekermight simplify the code a bit
02:38.19brlcadyep
02:39.16starseekerOK, I'm sold - and there's a feature request so I'm technically doing a help desk support task :-)
02:42.28starseekeralright, time to go home and get some sleep :-)
02:42.46starseekerlater all!  (and thanks brlcad, particularly with the "|=" syntax)
02:47.09brlcadcheers
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04:13.30yukonbobpeeks in
04:21.07brlcadpees in
04:27.07CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32541 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/nirt.c: ws and comma style cleanup
04:28.22yukonbobheh
04:28.32yukonbobhow's it going my friend?
04:28.45yukonbob~lart puddles
04:28.45ibotputs on a hockey mask and jumps out at puddles
04:29.29brlcadtired
04:30.02brlcadall reading and no coding make jack tired
04:31.43CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32542 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/sfiles/ (csv-gap.nrt csv.nrt default.nrt gap1.nrt gap2.nrt): poor man alignment .. probably should just have the alignment and use the file name or another line in the file for the name. then the alignment could be automatic..
04:43.39PrezKennedywaves to yukonbob and brlcad
04:46.09yukonbobhello, PrezKennedy
04:46.17PrezKennedyhowdy
04:49.53brlcadwaves back to PrezKennedy
04:51.17brlcadawesome, barely any grammar/punct changes this time .. janine must have caught them beforehand or he's wising up to their placement..
05:50.07brlcadfinishes reviewing yonder minibook about nirt
05:50.23brlcadnicely done starseeker .. lots of comments
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07:50.34CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32543 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: added some files to be in sync with Makefile.am
07:55.11CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32544 10/rt^3/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): we don't need an extra pointer to the database's title
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11:13.09starseekerbrlcad:  Thanks :-)
11:13.18starseekerbrlcad:  Janine caught them
11:15.36starseekerhas a ways to go in that department, unfortunately...
11:36.49mafmhi pplz
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12:05.54CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32545 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/edit_solid_int.tcl: This fixes bug 2040395 "tra in console mode produces error"
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12:18.06andrecastelomorning guys
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14:21.47``Erikmorning, andre :)
14:38.05starseeker<PROTECTED>
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15:13.10andrecastelohi
15:13.39andrecastelohi ``Erik.. did you test the rtmlt parallel stuff?
15:15.02andrecastelo:D
15:19.18``Eriknot yet, updating stuff right now, I can give it a quick whirl
15:20.45``Erikstill fruity
15:20.47``Erikhttp://brlcad.org/~erik/mlt.png
15:22.05``Erikthat was with:  rtmlt -F/dev/Xl -o mlt.png /usr/brlcad/share/db/moss.g all.g
15:22.26``Erikwith -P1, I get http://brlcad.org/~erik/mltP1.png
15:27.33andrecastelo``Erik: aww :/
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16:46.01mafmgo network admins, go
17:09.15CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32546 10/brlcad/trunk/ (17 files in 4 dirs): Added the following new functions to libged: ged_3ptarb, ged_analyze, ged_arb, ged_bev, ged_bot_condense, ged_bot_face_fuse, ged_bot_merge, ged_bot_split and ged_bot_vertex_fuse
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23:49.11CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32547 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/ (8 files): add a slew of additional mged_players protections throughout where it was being used without checking if it existed
23:53.08CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32548 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
23:53.08CIA-24BRL-CAD: bob fixed sf bug 2040395 'tra in console mode produces error' where mged was
23:53.09CIA-24BRL-CAD: trying to update the display manager if you went into edit mode on an object
23:53.09CIA-24BRL-CAD: without checking if mged is being run in graphical mode (i.e. whether there are
23:53.09CIA-24BRL-CAD: any mged_players to talk to).
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080827

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080827

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10:41.47CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32549 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: added some files to be in sync with Makefile.am
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16:32.00CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32550 10/brlcad/trunk/src/nirt/parse_fmt.c: Add check to avoid overwriting pre-existing files in NIRT's dest command.
16:35.35CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32551 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: nirt's dest command no longer overwrites files - it uses bu_file_exists to check if the file already exists.
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17:46.47*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || The 2008 Google Summer of Code is complete! -- Thanks deserved to all of our students! || (Source) Release 7.12.6 posted 2008-08-19 || Mailing lists are now reply-to-list instead of reply-to-sender by default
17:49.36CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32552 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: consistency, use lowercase on all commands except mged. nirt's dest command no longer overwrites files - it uses bu_file_exists to check if the file already exists. (by cliff)
17:57.25CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32553 10/brlcad/trunk/ (15 files in 5 dirs): Added the following functions to libged: ged_copymat, ged_cpi, ged_decompose, ged_delay, ged_eac, ged_edcolor and ged_glob.
18:11.42brlcadmm, so a waiting list for more than 2 mentor attendees
18:11.47brlcad(at the gsoc summit)
18:22.07mafmhumm?
18:27.30brlcaddetails about the mentor summit came out today
18:28.01mafmyou lucky mentors :P
18:28.13brlcadtis great fun :)
18:30.06brlcadproject leads and devs from most of the top open source projects and organizations all getting together
18:30.15brlcadto talk about open source, gsoc, our students, ...
18:30.38brlcadpretty much bigger than oscon by the simple nature that google pays to bring everyone together
18:31.55mafmproject leads?
18:32.13mafmI don't know if for the most prominent projects the leads are involved.. :D
18:36.22pooliohowdy all
18:37.38brlcadmafm: not for all projects of course
18:37.44brlcadbut for a heck of a lot of them
18:37.52brlcadcore devs for most of them regardless
18:38.48brlcadand last year it was three per org so there was a pretty good chance representation for most orgs
18:39.07mafm>:|
18:39.18mafmyou lucky b... :D
18:40.17brlcadaside from getting new developers that actually *stay* with the project and remain involved, the mentor summit is probably the secondary highlight of the entire program
18:40.23brlcadfor mentors/orgs at least
18:42.30brlcadI can talk directly with the blender devs (the ones I don't see at siggraph), talk with the netbsd lead that works on our coverity scan face-to-face, have a drink with the Haiku devs and figure out how close they are for porting brl-cad/bzflag, meet up with ogre lead yet again to see what he's up to
18:43.22brlcadit's an excellent networking festival and lots of commonality -- almost everyone there is just like everyone else, highly passionate about open source
18:44.21mafm>>>:||||
18:44.29mafmdon't tell any more!
18:46.46brlcadI recommended having some sort of showcase/ranking/summit for students last year
18:47.20brlcadbut leslie really didn't want to get the students into a competitive mindset
18:47.45brlcadand there's no way they could afford to send/reward all of them (more than they do already with shirts/swag)
18:49.45mafmyep, it's not bad at all, but I love traveling :)
18:49.57brlcadyeah, me too
18:49.59mafmhopes to go to Turkey on Sept 22
18:50.28brlcadIf I could travel all the time (at least more than just the handful times a year I do now).. hot damn would I be a happy camper
18:52.56mafmhandful times... sigh
18:53.03mafmI travel once every few years :P
18:53.30mafmanyway, going home now, have to pack some things and go to the cinema
18:53.34mafmsee you :)
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20:28.04CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r32554 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/README: some minor dev notes
21:14.57``Erikwtf did they do to my poor machine
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080828

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080828

00:12.13``Erikhowdy, andre
00:21.35``Erikjabs starseeker with something sharp until he notices
00:42.33andrecastelohowdy ``Erik
00:42.35andrecastelo:D
00:47.30starseekerwhat am I supposed to notice?
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02:09.00``Erikum, map vs mapcar,
02:09.16``Erikmap has a stupid 'output' type, where mapcar does what you'd expect map to?
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06:56.09CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32555 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: added some files to be in sync with Makefile.am
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10:38.01mafmhi
10:38.05brlcadhowdy!
10:38.46brlcaddebates whether to present at the tcl/tk conference
10:39.01mafmto present what?
10:39.19brlcadsomething :)
10:39.33brlcadanything, whether to do it at all
10:39.40brlcadwould have to write up the abstract today
10:39.50mafmsuggests something about COBOL bindings for Tcl/Tk
10:40.13brlcadheh, it'd be about brl-cad use of tcl/tk
10:40.24brlcadjust don't know which aspect specifically atm
10:40.47mafm:)
10:41.04mafmyou only do that because of traveling :P
10:41.18brlcadheh
10:41.27RalithI'll bet some conferences have pretty good food, too, though.
10:41.35brlcadis that not a good reason in itself? :)
10:41.52brlcadRalith: and parties, can't forget the parties
10:42.08Ralithparties are simply a higher level construct atop the base necessity of food.
10:42.17brlcadbut actually, the tcl/tk conf. is only about 100mi away, just outside DC
10:42.47brlcadRalith: sometimes the 'food' at parties is purely in a liquid form though ;)
10:43.06clock_Ralith: aren't parties the base necessity of socialization?
10:43.48Ralithclock_: so long as the socialization produces food ^^
10:46.33mafmhi Ralith, howdy
10:47.06mafmloves liquid food
10:47.59Ralithhullo
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14:14.46*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5B14FCA9.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:59.13*** join/#brlcad CIA-23 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
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15:42.15brlcadargles
15:47.09mafmbrlcad: is there anything else left to close the gsoc project other than submitting the code?
16:40.50*** join/#brlcad CIA-24 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
17:41.24mafmsee you folks :)
18:08.25*** part/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141231.customer.alfanett.no)
18:13.36``Erik"programming is like sex. make one mistake and support it for the rest of your life." *snicker*
19:06.52*** join/#brlcad CIA-23 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
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19:17.08*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@static-70-108-244-218.res.east.verizon.net)
19:19.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32559 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: Add note about long term goal of having a plugin system for BRL-CAD.
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19:45.37``Erikkicks emacs
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080829

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080829

01:58.48*** join/#brlcad smurfette (i=Pandora@c-69-247-220-102.hsd1.mo.comcast.net)
05:35.32*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet-45-219.dorm.utexas.edu)
07:21.02*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch)
08:04.00*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
10:29.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32560 10/rt^3/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): the core of ray trace
11:14.47*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
11:30.24*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
12:57.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32561 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ged.c:
12:57.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: Making sure ged_log and ged_result_string will initially contain an empty string
12:57.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: instead of a null pointer (I wrongly assumed that bu_vls_init did this :-( ).
12:57.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: This way, any callers of libged functions can harvest ged_log or ged_result_str
12:57.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: without the need to check whether or not it contains a null pointer (i.e. it
12:57.33CIA-4BRL-CAD: should always contain atleast an empty string assuming the application doesn't
12:57.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: free the vls).
12:58.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32562 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (ged_private.h qray.h): Include missing header
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14:08.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32563 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c: Add code to draw view axes (temporarily hardwired to always be on and drawn in center of view)
14:59.33CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32564 10/rt^3/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): a little bit more output from the ray trace
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16:00.49``Erikheh, remember how I was bitching about them screwing up my machine and having stuff crash? even vim is crashing, so I have a hard time just blaming ms... :D
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16:17.54prasad_too many metaballs
16:21.21``Erikheh
16:21.33``Erikmy balls are awesome, WORSHIP MY BALLS! *duck*
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17:43.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32565 10/brlcad/trunk/ (186 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:43.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: Removed ged_result_flags from struct ged and added another return type (i.e.
17:43.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: BRLCAD_HELP). This should make libged easier to use. Before, you would have
17:43.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: checked the return value and the result_flags to determine if the function was
17:43.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: returning a help message or results of the function call. Now you check only the
17:43.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: return value. BTW, the reason an application may need to distinguish the
17:43.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: difference between BRLCAD_OK and BRLCAD_HELP may be to refresh a display if the
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19:11.00starseekerbrlcad:  Hmm, I wasn't aware of it, but there does seem to be some sort of find command already in libged.  Would the new find command replace it?
19:23.22*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
20:42.02brlcadstarseeker: that's the 'dbfind' command .. some commands were renamed in archer, that being one of them
20:42.52brlcadwhat you're doing would replace that
20:44.12brlcadthere is also a tcl 'find' command unfortunately, so there is still a name conflict that will have to get sorted out later
20:44.53brlcadwhat I had in mind was to encapsulate all of our commands in a ged:: namespace that is auto-loaded in mged, so it can still be just 'find'
20:45.16brlcadand you'd just call ::find or ged::find to get tcl's or ged one respectively
20:45.21brlcador at least something like that
20:51.13brlcadactually even better in this case, find is already namspace scoped for itcl so you can just use 'find'
21:16.24``Erikhehehe, that guy just lost 26k of fleet on my base, I lost 220 and got a nice fat 11k derb pile :D awesome
21:16.42``Erik2200, rather
21:17.20starseekerSo do you go attack him now?
21:18.27brlcad``Erik: random luck of the draw or something else?
21:18.29``Eriktheoretically... but I probably wouldn't profit from it, so I won't
21:18.43``Erikidiot at the wheel, he got upset at my potshots and decided to "teach me a leson"
21:18.45``Eriklesson
21:19.12brlcadupgraded his beta account for a month so it can continue through the weekend unattended whilest packing
21:19.19``ErikI'll message you the transcript when I get home so you can get a chuckle and learn how not to do it :)
21:22.23starseekerlooks at stack of libged and find code for "light" weekend reading and hopes he has enough time to get through it.
21:23.39starseeker:q
21:23.42starseekerwhoops
21:23.43brlcadthe find.c in libged is probably code you'll end up needing
21:23.48brlcadit's basic traversal
21:23.54starseekernods
21:24.03brlcador at least some variation on it in a more general form
21:24.22brlcadit's one of the dozen or so 'findish' commands for walking the hierarchy looking for things
21:24.31starseekerYes, I printed it to get the "how to read a tree from libged" perspective
21:26.32starseekerIt doesn't seem to actually use db_functree though - db_tree_funcleaf maybe
21:27.00starseekerI take it the dp = gedp->ged_wdbp->dbip->dbi_Head[i]; dp != DIR_NULL; dp = dp->d_forw logic gets all top level objects?
21:28.10brlcadI don't remember for sure, but I don't believe so
21:28.23brlcadI believe that is the hash entry for all db objects
21:28.33starseekerchecks other code...
21:28.36brlcadit's just the "Head" of the db linked list
21:28.41starseekerOh, right
21:28.44brlcadso you can iterate over all objects in a db using that
21:28.55brlcadif the directory has been loaded, that is
21:29.20starseekerso that's not what you want to do if you're searching within a particular subtree then
21:29.40starseekerhmm.
21:29.48brlcadthat's very low level .. kinda like putting all objects in one dir on the filesystem and running ls
21:30.01brlcadno hierarchy, but you can get at everything
21:30.42brlcadso iff you knew you were doing a top-level search with path / then you could use that, but I don't see why you'd want to
21:31.00starseekernods
21:31.04starseekerany performance gains?
21:31.47starseekerlooks for a db_functree use in libged
21:32.06brlcadnot really
21:32.20starseekerah, of course - killtree and xpush
21:32.29starseekerplus a few in wdb_obj
21:33.45starseekerwants a kill command that kills only the object in a tree not referenced by any other tree
21:40.06brlcadchuckles at "the website is down"
22:03.29starseekernotes McCain's VP pick and listens to hear the pop of wacko far right voter brains unable to cope with the two major presidential tickets :-)
22:04.04starseekerwhatever else it may be, this has gotta be one of the more interesting run-ups to an election in recent history
22:52.17``Erikhttp://www.kontraband.com/pics/13365/Proof-Evolution-Is-Phoney/
23:07.28``Erikwow O.o http://www.kontraband.com/pics/13277/Trailer-Parking-Catastrophy/
23:17.12*** join/#brlcad tulth (n=user@ip70-181-106-46.oc.oc.cox.net)
23:18.01tulthhey guys.  Anyone know how to get brl-cad operating with gnu emacs instead of jove?
23:29.49tulthor at least, run mged from a shell prompt
23:30.58brlcadtulth: if you set your editor, it'll use it
23:31.27brlcadand what do you mean by run mged from a shell prompt?
23:31.47brlcadif you mean non-gui, you can run mged -c
23:31.54brlcadthat's classic console mode
23:32.01tulthahh that may be exactly what i want
23:32.13tulthsorry, i'm just starting with it
23:33.17brlcadnp
23:33.28tulthwith the console mode, how can i bring up the graphics window
23:33.37brlcadif you want the gui from there, you can run "gui" or the attach command
23:33.52brlcadit'll prompt you on startup to attach something
23:34.04tulthah cool
23:34.04brlcadnu is nothing, X will give you the classic X console
23:34.14brlcadogl might crash ;)
23:34.51tulthinteresting, it brought up the command window too, which echoes my console i/o
23:35.01brlcadyep, 'gui' does that
23:35.09brlcadkicks off the tcl gui -- which is both windows
23:35.26brlcadattach is just the graphics window, but without a menu
23:35.57tulththat might work for me as well
23:36.29brlcadfyi, if you're not using the tcl/gui interface -- much of the mged tutorial will be rather different
23:36.53tulthyou are a mindreader; i'm working through it now
23:37.11tulthi'll leave the gui up for now, still typing in my emacs eshell though for my commaand
23:37.13brlcadeverything in the tutorials you can do via the gui can be done via the console or via classic mode regardless, though - you'll just have a little trouble figuring out just exactly what
23:37.31brlcadthe mged quick reference sheet should help some
23:37.56brlcadwow, running mged via eshell..
23:38.02brlcadlemme know how that works out ;)
23:38.08tulthyea, its great so far
23:38.36brlcaddoes mged's tab-completion work there?
23:38.47tulthhrm probably not
23:38.58tulthno, just tabs haha
23:38.59brlcad(try: make sph sph ; e s[tab]
23:41.11tulthyea, it just tabs
23:41.16brlcadk
23:41.58brlcadwants a brl-cad major mode
23:42.05brlcadthat behaves like tar mode
23:42.23tulthyea, that would be fantastic
23:42.39tulththough, i haven't used tar mode
23:42.55tulthlots of others are nice, like gdb mode
23:42.55brlcadtraverse the hierarchy, see the object details, edit values directly, have a few cmds to create new objects
23:43.00tulthorg mode is cool too
23:43.20tulthyea, like maybe browse it with dired?
23:43.21brlcadan "mged mode" would be more like gdb mode
23:43.29brlcadright, dired is similar
23:43.39brlcadtar mode emulates dired on a tar file
23:44.12brlcadg mode would emulate direct on a g file
23:44.17brlcads/direct/dired/
23:44.21tulthhrm maybe even something like norton commander
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080830

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080830

00:01.25``Erik*read* wow, emacs users really are masochists O.o :D
00:06.53brlcadheh
00:06.56brlcadfunny battle ``Erik
00:07.21brlcadtook me a sec to realize that was you
00:13.17``Erikyeah, was hilarious :D cliff wandered in wondering why I was laughing my ass off
00:14.00``Erikthere were a lot of minor battles before that at various places, kill single scouts, corvettes, etc... freeing guildies who merlin had occ'd
00:14.07``ErikI guess he just snapped
00:14.21tulthwhat game?
00:14.25``Erikastroempires.com
00:15.56tulthah =)
00:20.49brlcadlooks like he sent every little fleet, every little bit he could to try to make the profit
00:21.03brlcadsince they got smaller and smaller really quick :)
00:25.54``Erikno, he sent everything he had. period.
00:26.16``Erikeach fcv can carry 400 fighters, he sent 633 fighters with 6 fcv's... and used the fcv's in the attack
00:26.21``Erikthat was a desperation move
00:27.27``ErikI'm not vindictive, I won't attack his bases unless there's profit to be had... it's nice that he basically gave me 10k credit through his little tantrum, though :)
01:03.34*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@emc/developer/SWPadnos) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
01:03.34*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
01:03.34*** join/#brlcad alex_joni (n=juve@emc/board-of-directors/alexjoni) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
01:22.27punkrockgirlhi guys im djing
01:22.35punkrockgirlif you wanna hear :D
01:22.38punkrockgirlwww.troubleradio.net
01:23.03brlcadhowdy punkrockgirl
01:23.10punkrockgirlhi! :D
01:23.32punkrockgirlso do you play that astroempires thing too?
01:23.37punkrockgirli need to do that, erik keeps talking about it
01:23.54brlcadavoid it! tis evil
01:24.09punkrockgirllol
01:24.15punkrockgirlmore evil than wow?
01:24.20brlcadI got suckered in on a whim when I was killing some time two weeks ago
01:24.25brlcadprobably not
01:24.33punkrockgirloh, i have no time to kill, wow sucks it out of me
01:25.02brlcadi was procrastinating, had something exceptionally more important that I needed to be doing
01:25.06brlcadnow i'm paying for it
01:25.22brlcadheh, "punkrockgirl and the smurfettes"
01:27.44brlcadwoot!
01:27.50brlcadhears her voice for the first time
01:28.09brlcadgo for it
01:28.22brlcad:)
01:28.22``Erikif you're curious, she's at least as retarded as she sounds ;) *duck* *run*
01:28.55brlcaddude
01:29.04brlcadshe's gonna beat yo ass
01:29.19``Erik:D
01:29.33brlcadgives punkrockgirl some dayquil
01:29.54brlcadmixes pretty well with alcohol ;)
01:30.16``Erikblegh, queues are full, I'm still gonna be broke tomorrow *sigh*
01:30.32``ErikI need $'s for research, damnit
01:31.59brlcadi think i might just have to upgrade epsilon too, at least for a month so I can go over the 5 limit on terraform, get two more astros established, then let it run for a couple months
01:32.30brlcadis happy he sold his couches
01:32.40*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-169-117-250.dyn.iinet.net.au)
01:33.06brlcadtotally needs to be drinking a scotch right now
01:33.15``Erik<-- vodka&beer
01:33.34brlcadis offloading a bunch of beer tomorrow
01:33.34``Erikthe game is fun and cheap, *shrug* I'll probably keep paying until I get bored
01:34.12brlcad``Erik: I think she's giving you a hint
01:34.33``Eriko.O
01:35.07brlcadit is cheap, but I did find out the damn upgrades are per-server
01:35.22``Erikthinks he liked jill sobules "I kissed a girl" from the mid 90's more than this one
01:35.25brlcadi suspected, but confirmed
01:35.42``Erikmakes ya wonder if you should be writing web games instead, huh? ;)
01:35.51brlcadno kidding
01:36.22brlcadit's all probably running off this dude's 486 too
01:37.03``ErikI d'no, I surspect they got quite a few hits an hour
01:37.10``Erikand bz is kinda straining
01:37.25brlcadbz?
01:38.05brlcadah, sql .. yeah, maybe but I'd be surprised if the load was a whole lot more
01:38.38``Erikthe two big consumers on bz seems to be mysql and irssi O.o
01:39.26brlcadpunkrockgirl: yeah, and this isn't one of them! :P
01:39.58brlcadhehe
01:40.20punkrockgirl:D
01:40.50brlcadpunkrockgirl: can you tell how many are streaming?
01:41.09brlcad(and individually kick them off? that'd be awesome)
01:41.58brlcadpunkrockgirl: how about my request from a couple months ago? :)
01:46.41punkrockgirlhaha
01:47.03punkrockgirlok and no i cant figure out who's streaming, i think the guy who runs it can i cant remember how to check :P
01:47.09punkrockgirlits at least like 16
01:49.34``Erik'mundo' is world?
01:49.40punkrockgirli must be drunk i cant remember what the request was
01:49.41punkrockgirl:D
01:49.46punkrockgirli do um, but i dont
01:49.47``Erik'meu mundo' is my world?
01:51.07brlcadpunkrockgirl: maybe next time :)
01:51.23punkrockgirlnah i remember i just cant remember who sings it cuz im drunk
01:51.31brlcadgravity kills
01:51.36punkrockgirlthats right thanks :D
01:51.40punkrockgirlup next :]
01:51.45brlcadwoo hoo
01:51.50brlcad~punkrockgirl++
01:51.56``Erikheh
01:52.06punkrockgirl;D
01:52.21punkrockgirlsorry, the beer is evil
01:52.31brlcadcranks up his sound system for (maybe) one last time before departing this place
01:52.40brlcad(to the annoyance of his neighbors)
01:53.19``Erikquit pissing richard off! :D
01:53.37brlcadi'd need my other speakers to do that
01:53.50brlcadthe big uns and amp are already in storage
01:53.57``Erikcareful, he might come 'mike' at you
01:54.08brlcadnah, he's a pansy
01:54.35``Eriksomehow, mike didn't consider a composite bow to be a weapon. he had it in his car at work
01:54.41``Erikboy has issues
01:55.44brlcadpunkrockgirl: you rock
01:55.57punkrockgirlthanks :D
01:59.14brlcaddesigned an entire game around that song
02:01.54punkrockgirlcool
02:01.58punkrockgirlwhat game
02:02.23*** join/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@124-169-117-250.dyn.iinet.net.au)
02:02.27brlcadit wasn't published/finished
02:02.36brlcadjust nearly fully designed
02:06.48``Erikbusts out his huge request list o.O :D *duck*
02:07.49punkrockgirl:P
02:09.15brlcadpunkrockgirl: a pleasure to finally hear you, have to get ``Erik to host a party and get you over this way :)
02:14.36``Erikheh
02:14.42``Erikthat was damn weird
02:15.01brlcadhm?
02:15.10``Erikon my way home, I threw that flyleaf cd in my cars changer, kept saying 'no cd', so i moved it from 1 to 6 and threw a bunch of other cd's in, suddenly it all works
02:15.30brlcadhuh
02:16.02``Erikso now my car has santana, green day, metallica, the spawn and crow soundtracks, ... heh
02:18.11``Erik(good green day... kerplunk.. not dookie&later crap... shut up)
02:20.23``Erikohhhhhh, that's why the radio was suddenly good, it lost connection and went to my play list
02:20.34``Erikwas wondering why I was getting stuff like garbage and filter :D
02:20.52punkrockgirlhaha, yes brlcad, everytime i go there we dont do anything but sit around
02:20.59punkrockgirlwhen he comes here i throw parties...
02:21.10punkrockgirlguess he doesnt want me to meet his friends
02:21.18brlcadhaha, THAT's why the music changed...
02:21.26punkrockgirloh, im done djing
02:21.28brlcadthanks ``Erik .. was wondering the exact same thing
02:21.41brlcadpunkrockgirl: figured that out.. didn't think the stream would end though :)
02:21.47punkrockgirlbut um, some chicks on after me
02:21.59brlcadoh
02:21.59punkrockgirlshe didnt connect right so it broke
02:22.04brlcadtunes in
02:22.10``Erikplaying some retarded def lepard remix so I turned it off
02:23.01punkrockgirlshes cooler than cat
02:23.06punkrockgirlkeeps playing nirvana
02:23.08punkrockgirli like her
02:24.01``Erikheh, "not a scary chick humping kev"? O.o *duck*
02:24.56punkrockgirlnope
02:25.09punkrockgirlmiss seems pretty cool
02:25.17yukonbobhello, cadheads
02:25.28``Erikmorning, yukon
02:25.28punkrockgirlshe isnt insane liek teh others
02:25.29punkrockgirlhi
02:25.30brlcadhowdy yukonbob
02:25.49brlcadwoot, the liquid floweth freely
02:26.05``Erikwhich scotch tonight?
02:26.19brlcadpunkrockgirl: you're not missing much
02:26.27brlcadI wouldn't want to meet his friends either
02:26.33``Erikhah
02:26.59``Erikis surprised punker isn't fed up with htis friends... zyx alone is more than most can handle
02:27.01``Erik:D
02:27.37brlcadbunch a geeks that talk tech most of the time
02:28.36brlcadtonight is a night for the good stuff, the 21 year portwood balvenie is calling me
02:28.53brlcadmakes it easier to pack and throw stuff away
02:29.02``Erikon the rocks?
02:29.12brlcadof course
02:30.00``Erikevery time I get the urge to do that, I end up saying "fuqqit" and running a neat with a chase
02:30.17punkrockgirli hate zyx
02:30.18``Erikshot to the liver, bullseye
02:31.36punkrockgirlok so is it bad that when this startedi thought it was vanilla ice and not david bowie?
02:31.53punkrockgirli realized it after like 30 secs... but still...
02:32.11``Erik89 rc's, should only take 12 hours
02:32.28``Erikyeah, you suck, punker... I mean, vanilla ice? seriously?
02:32.39``Erikrice rice gravy
02:33.28``Erikbatshit insane ripping up the mtv set with an aluminum baseball bat his name really is mud rob? O.o
02:35.31punkrockgirleat me...
02:35.40``Erikjabs punker with a fork
02:35.59punkrockgirlouchies
02:36.07punkrockgirldude, where did my snotrag go?
02:36.09punkrockgirldid you steal it?
02:36.13punkrockgirldid you hide it?
02:36.27brlcadsips his scotch as deep satisfaction sets in
02:36.43punkrockgirli want some scotch
02:36.51punkrockgirli have beer and vodka and amaretto
02:36.55``Erik... *burp*
02:37.00brlcadsaw vanilla ice (in person) just two weeks ago
02:37.04punkrockgirlexcuse you
02:37.05brlcadweirdness
02:37.15punkrockgirlinteresting
02:37.16punkrockgirlwhere?
02:37.18``Erikat siggraph?
02:37.21brlcadin L.A.
02:37.22yukonbobhehe
02:37.23brlcadyeah
02:37.32brlcadthere was a softimage party
02:37.35``Erikdangit, I shoulda went
02:37.37punkrockgirlcool
02:37.39``ErikI coulda gotten to kick his ass
02:37.43punkrockgirlhe's kinda a loose cannon
02:37.52``Erikthat'd be a good resume line
02:37.52punkrockgirlLOL that would be funny to watch
02:38.02brlcadthey were releasing a new product called 'ICE' .. with a special (unknown) guest presenter
02:38.04punkrockgirlbut um baby, he is kinda buff last i checked...
02:38.09``Erik"expert in C, lisp, shell scripting, assembly, and kicking vanilla ices crazy ass"
02:38.20brlcadmodern vanilla ice, though he did do a few variations on the oldies
02:38.24brlcadkickin' party
02:38.39punkrockgirlyou see how he went off on that porn king guy, um whats his name?
02:38.43punkrockgirli cant remember things
02:38.46``Erikron jeremy?
02:38.49punkrockgirlyes]'
02:38.56brlcadgirls literally hanging and dancing from cloth sheets 20 feet up in the air
02:38.56punkrockgirlthrowing shit at him
02:39.02brlcadyeah, hehe, ron was there too
02:39.06punkrockgirllolll
02:39.08punkrockgirlreally?
02:39.09``Erikand I'm not scared of rob 'vanilla lice'... now carrot top, shit, I'll steer clear of that nut
02:39.20punkrockgirlummm
02:39.22brlcadyep, they're apparently good friends
02:39.28punkrockgirlyeah they were
02:39.34punkrockgirlthey got in a HUGE fight
02:39.39punkrockgirlim glad they are friends again
02:39.40``Erikof course they're good friends, they have something in common... both of them suck ron's dick
02:39.40brlcadhe was up in the rafters with some ladies
02:39.41``Erik*cough*
02:39.50punkrockgirli watch vh1 too much...
02:40.01punkrockgirlno, they were on surreal life together
02:40.08punkrockgirland lived together
02:40.15brlcadah, right
02:40.15punkrockgirlfor a couple months
02:40.30``Erikdoesn't negate or preclude my statment... :D
02:40.46``Eriks/tm/tem/
02:41.02punkrockgirland rob FrEAKED out about something and was breaking the vh1 set and throwing a drum set at ron and it was just funny as hell
02:41.21brlcadhttp://www.softimage.com/events/sig08/NiceIce/
02:41.28brlcadvideo totally doesn't do the venue justice
02:43.40brlcadshakes fist at the volume changing so much from voice to tune on troubleradio
02:45.18punkrockgirlyeah, thats her... i dont do that
02:45.23``Erikyeah ya do
02:45.26punkrockgirli do not!
02:45.30punkrockgirlstfu
02:45.31``Erikgotta watch the vu meters
02:45.36punkrockgirleat me
02:45.43``Erikand normalize it every time ya move hte mic, it sucks
02:45.43punkrockgirlthat looks fun
02:45.48punkrockgirlso whats softimage?
02:45.56``Erikgraphic software company
02:46.07punkrockgirlhuh... so thats um, work?
02:46.10brlcadit's like the main software that's used for making commercials and tv edits
02:46.18brlcadsome movie work too
02:46.42punkrockgirlhm
02:46.43``Erikxsi, I think?
02:46.45brlcadgets a quick buzz realizing that he's not had a damn thing to eat today
02:46.53punkrockgirlwhy is it my work sucks so bad
02:47.00punkrockgirland other people like what they do
02:47.15punkrockgirland how do i fix that
02:47.20brlcadloves what he does, contrary to ``Erik's happiness :)
02:47.27punkrockgirl:)
02:47.38``Erikhuh, they were involved with the new hulk move
02:47.43punkrockgirli think he does love what he does
02:48.00brlcadhe just wants to be left alone
02:48.02punkrockgirli, however, scream all day and then my throat hurts and then i cry cuz im so stressed
02:48.07brlcadand they keep gettin' all up in his bidness
02:48.27brlcadscream o.O
02:48.32punkrockgirlyes, that would be like another issue with my job, but not nearly as annoying as the screaming
02:48.33``Eriktoday was nice, I only got interrupted 5 or 6 times
02:48.42punkrockgirllmao 5 or 6 times?
02:48.45punkrockgirlare you  kidding me?
02:48.53brlcadthat's a good day
02:49.05``Erikyeah, tha tmeans I got, what, almost an hour of productive work done
02:49.19brlcadat least double office-space guy
02:49.25punkrockgirlim in the middle of something... a hand goes up... "what time is it" i ignore it... 3 seconds later another hand "yes?" "i gotta USE it"
02:49.42brlcadpunkrockgirl: teacher?
02:49.45punkrockgirli ignore it... 10 secs later "what page are we on?"
02:49.47punkrockgirlyes
02:49.52``Erikyeah, but you don't have a full hour of mental cooldown/windup for each and every interruption
02:49.52brlcadraises his hand
02:50.16brlcadraises his hand and starts flailing
02:50.45punkrockgirli have 1 second of a "omfg if this kid doesnt stop beating on the goddamn desk i will throw this stapler at his face... now i must calm down.. ok so a factor is ..."
02:50.51punkrockgirlyes brlcad? :D
02:50.55brlcadhehe
02:51.01``Erikhe had to pee
02:51.03brlcadI gotta go
02:51.04``Erikbut he wasn't excused
02:51.05brlcad:)
02:51.07``Erikso he did it anyways
02:51.13punkrockgirl(this is where you say "you waited to long... i forgot..."
02:51.20punkrockgirllol
02:51.39punkrockgirli have no hour of mental cooldown... wtff is that?
02:51.56brlcadonce again, the brl-cad mentors rock out over the bzflag mentors
02:52.11brlcadall survey's completed early .. bz only has 1 of 6 done
02:52.24punkrockgirli had a kid today who came in late... takes 2 steps forward... one step back... 2 steps forward... 1 step back... wont move out of my doorway... 2 steps forward.... OMFG i was gonna push him
02:52.26``Erikcoders function in a semi-hypnotic state... knock us out of it and we're dazed and it takes us a while to figure out what's going on... getting back into is is another good chunk of time
02:52.33punkrockgirlit took everything in me not to
02:52.50brlcadpunkrockgirl: that's where I'd probably get sued
02:52.55punkrockgirlme too
02:52.59brlcadi'd just pick the kid up and move em
02:53.01punkrockgirlim so suprised i didnt
02:53.07punkrockgirlhe's adhd/sped too
02:53.16punkrockgirlbut im like GET OUT OF MY WAY
02:53.24``ErikI d'no, when I was subbing, I could fluff up and intimidate them pretty easily
02:53.30punkrockgirlask erik, im very impatient
02:53.42``Erikyes, punker is a spaz
02:53.46punkrockgirlvery
02:53.46brlcadkick the bottom of their shoe when they start to step forward
02:53.50brlcadthat'll get their attention
02:53.54punkrockgirlmy coworkers call me the bad kid
02:54.07punkrockgirli am always late for everything and freak out over everything
02:54.15punkrockgirlhehehe
02:54.16brlcadwoot, late ftw
02:54.33``Eriknot for certain things
02:54.34``ErikO.o
02:54.45``Erik"late? what? *runs for hills*"
02:54.46``Erik:D
02:54.46punkrockgirli assume that they cant fire me
02:54.50brlcadnotes he will be homeless in 49 hours :)
02:54.50punkrockgirl;P
02:55.01punkrockgirleck, thats lame
02:55.06punkrockgirlwhy
02:55.13``Erikoh, uh, dude, labor day weekend
02:55.17brlcadi'm moving
02:55.23``Erikmight not be wise to wait until friday evening to call around
02:55.25brlcadit's on purpose :)
02:55.29punkrockgirlto a home?
02:55.47brlcadi'm not looking for a new place yet
02:55.51punkrockgirllol
02:55.56punkrockgirlmight wanna do that
02:56.02brlcadi'll figure that out next month probably
02:56.06punkrockgirlcuz um, places arent open past noon tomorrow
02:56.23``Erikwait, it is friday evening, huh
02:56.25``Erikheh
02:56.27brlcadtomorrow I'm packing and moving the rest of my stuff into storage
02:56.28punkrockgirlpast that
02:56.33punkrockgirl;P
02:56.35``Erikwhy was I thinking it was wednesday?
02:56.42punkrockgirlcuz youre an idiot?
02:56.47punkrockgirl:D
02:56.48brlcadbecause you WANT to go to work tomorrow
02:56.51``Erik...
02:56.57punkrockgirl*snuggle* :)
02:57.11``Erikyou know it! I wasn't supposed to go to work today, but there I was, bright eyed and bushy somethinged
02:57.33punkrockgirlnerdling
02:57.44punkrockgirldude why cant i breathe
02:57.49punkrockgirlits so irritating
02:57.52brlcadpunkrockgirl: actually I figure I will actually make out quite well at a hotel for a few weeks (or however long) while I search
02:57.57punkrockgirlwtf is this chick playing
02:58.03brlcadit works out not much different than rent frankly
02:58.10brlcadand someone cleans my place every day!
02:58.11punkrockgirloh
02:58.13punkrockgirlhahaha
02:58.22``Erikheh, not jaylo's couch? :D
02:58.29brlcadnah
02:58.29punkrockgirlwell thats not entirely homeless then
02:58.35punkrockgirlive been homeless, thats not so fun
02:58.36brlcadtrue
02:58.45brlcadhome is where my head is, always has been
02:58.46punkrockgirlits interesting though
02:58.53punkrockgirlyou meet people
02:58.56``Erikhow're you supposed to buy the new elise if you spend money on hotels?
02:58.56brlcadis a bit different at times
02:59.14brlcadyeah, I've actually met folks that live in hotels in my travels
02:59.31brlcadvery well-to-do folks, not what you'd think
02:59.34punkrockgirli went through a phase a long time ago that i couch surfed
02:59.39brlcadit's mostly mobile convenience
02:59.43punkrockgirland slept behind a grocery store
03:00.04brlcad``Erik: because it's not really different than rent .. the elise is still easily within reach
03:00.31punkrockgirlwell, actually, i bet its not bad, cuz you dont have electricity and crap
03:00.39``ErikI d'no, man, seems worth it to buy one.. and if you go mobile and can't sell it, rent it out
03:00.39punkrockgirlbills are killing me
03:00.46punkrockgirlmy electric bill is 300 a month
03:00.48brlcadespecially if I try to curtail eating $40 meals a dozen times a month
03:01.00brlcadand $150 bottles of scotch .. though I can't make promises
03:01.06punkrockgirl:D
03:01.17brlcadhas his limits
03:01.38``Erikit's all good until you break 1k for a fifth
03:01.47brlcad``Erik: heh, hell, my MOM was telling me the craziest stuff just two days ago..
03:02.11``Erikhey man, I don't wanna hear about her key parties and shit, tmi, dude
03:02.14brlcadtelling me to empty out my retirement, buy whatever car I want, live it up
03:02.44punkrockgirlwhy?
03:02.51brlcadheh, my parents are like your traditional apple pie folks, it was so wierd
03:03.08brlcadpunkrockgirl: because she thinks I need a really hot car
03:03.25``Erikthe elise is only like 50 or 60k
03:03.26brlcadit sorta suits me if you meet me, freespirit and such
03:03.28punkrockgirli sometimes feel like i dont need to worry about retirement cuz my parents will leave me enough some day
03:03.40``Eriknot like an amg slk or anything
03:03.42brlcad``Erik: i'd get the exige if I did that
03:03.54brlcador actually, a viper
03:04.01punkrockgirloh i want a viper!
03:04.04``ErikI've never been thrilled with vipers
03:04.07punkrockgirlerik buy  me one
03:04.14``Erikbrutal quarter mile car... crap for anything else
03:04.14brlcadthat's always been my 'car' to get
03:04.23punkrockgirl:P
03:04.25brlcadsexy as hell
03:04.26punkrockgirlthey are cool
03:04.39brlcadponders that statement
03:04.43punkrockgirl;P
03:04.51``Erikand a shoddy lsd with no decent mgmt computer
03:04.58brlcadpunkrockgirl: you totally rock out over the current chick .. she's kinda weird
03:05.04punkrockgirllol, thanks
03:05.10``ErikI keep hearing stories about people throwing the tail out and going in circles or crashing
03:05.10punkrockgirlshe's way more hyper
03:05.12brlcadi mean serious
03:05.16brlcadseriously
03:05.18punkrockgirlLOL
03:05.32punkrockgirlim like "heres the music... love it... hate it.. .whatever..."
03:05.35``ErikTEH INTARWEBZ IS SRS BZNS!~#~!
03:05.37``ErikYARLY!
03:05.54punkrockgirlshe's like "omfg! this song rocks! lol! listen! lol! its so neat-o! lol!"
03:06.08brlcadaaaand.... the song sucks
03:06.15punkrockgirlhaha
03:06.19punkrockgirlprecisely
03:07.00punkrockgirlomg i wish i wasnt sick
03:07.02``Erik... can we get back to car talk now? :D
03:07.03brlcadwill take stuffy and drunk dj over that any day :)
03:07.17punkrockgirlthis music is like, stuff i heard when i was 10 at the skating rink lol
03:07.32punkrockgirlthanks
03:07.46punkrockgirland um, erik... you like talking about cars more than talking about me?
03:07.48punkrockgirlmeanie
03:08.03brlcad``Erik: so car will probably be next on my radar after I'm fully moved back in someplace
03:08.14punkrockgirldude, why are all these beers empty
03:08.38brlcadjust hopefully will be a place I can park curbside without too much risk ;)
03:08.59brlcadmost of canton is shweet, but dunno if I'll find a place there
03:09.24brlcadpunkrockgirl: you're not nearly drunk, your sentances still form complete thoughts
03:09.25``Erikpunker: I've ridden you, I haven't ridden in an elise, or 911, or c6, or ...
03:09.27``Erik:> *duck* *run*
03:09.43punkrockgirlso i'm old news???
03:09.45brlcad911 is actually a backup .. looked a few
03:09.47punkrockgirl*cry*
03:10.00punkrockgirland i'm boring????
03:10.02punkrockgirl*sob*
03:10.12``Erikthere was a nice one down at the german lot by jones junction when I was replacing my old m3
03:10.15``Erikbites punker
03:10.20brlcadnah, just melodramatic ;)
03:10.24punkrockgirlhaha
03:10.29brlcadhides
03:10.57``Erikthe 911 lacks a back seat, and having something that could carry more than 2 people seemed important to me at hte time
03:10.58brlcad``Erik: it's a far backup choice, though .. not too fond of the ass on the new models
03:11.13``Erikthey changed it?
03:11.24brlcaddoesn't care about 2 people, just get another car for that if it's really needed ;)
03:11.34punkrockgirlcarrying more than 2 people is important
03:11.42punkrockgirlOMFG my friend has this car... um
03:11.45punkrockgirlan audi?
03:11.50punkrockgirlso i sat in the back
03:11.57``Erikhttp://images.myride.com/images/vehicle/2008/Porsche/911/oem/08_Porsche_911_Turbo_03_(768x576).jpg
03:11.58brlcadwhich audi?
03:12.01punkrockgirland im VERY short btw, like 5'2" on a good day
03:12.02``Eriklooks ... pedestrian
03:12.13brlcadheh, good day
03:12.17punkrockgirlandi  could not fit without hitting my head and smashing my legs
03:12.26punkrockgirlit was SO lamesauce
03:12.34``Erikhrm, lee's a4 isnt too bad
03:12.37``Erikprobably a tt
03:12.46punkrockgirli'm not sure what it was
03:12.47``Erikis it round and a 2 seater?
03:12.51punkrockgirlno...
03:12.57punkrockgirli said i wasi n the backseat
03:13.02punkrockgirl4 seats
03:13.10punkrockgirlTINY
03:13.24brlcad``Erik: the boxter's rear
03:13.31punkrockgirli couldnt BELIEVE it was a 4 seater, i always thought it was a 2 seater
03:13.34brlcad911's good, but they're not so easy to find
03:13.47``Erikhuh? porsche boxster is a 2 seater with a mid engine
03:13.58``Erikpetey had one back in memphis, he ended up selling it and getting an m3
03:14.05punkrockgirlthis music is ghey
03:14.28punkrockgirldo i need more beer
03:14.39``Erikoh, visual shit
03:14.51``Eriksorry, it's late, vodka in me, not firing 100% :)
03:15.15``Erikhttp://allworldcars.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/2008-limited-edition-porsche-boxster-2.jpg
03:15.29``Erikit grew rice fins
03:15.37brlcad``Erik: http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/911/
03:15.50brlcadthe ones that I have no problem with are outside my budget ;)
03:15.55brlcad(the gt's)
03:16.01``Erikhttp://www.thewho.info/wfc/images/03Box6.jpg  far cuter
03:16.21brlcadyeah, I don't like that model
03:16.46brlcadbig ass rear
03:17.13``Erikgotta house the engine... :D pancake 6, right around 3 liter
03:17.36brlcadpunkrockgirl: yes you do
03:17.54``Erikum, the uh, vulva s60r was high on my list, that's a nice little machine
03:18.12brlcadheh's that's such a horrible name for a car
03:19.11brlcadit had to be the TT
03:19.37brlcadthe r8 is cramped too, but that's pretty money
03:19.42``Erik300 bhp, 6spd, tightened suspension, .... s60r is a beast in sheeps clothing
03:19.59punkrockgirlpancake 6 what
03:20.09brlcad6 pancakes?
03:20.09``Erikthe audis never really thrilled me, the s8 is neat, but ...
03:20.23punkrockgirli want 6 pancakes
03:20.31``Erikpancake engine... like a boxer engine...
03:20.39punkrockgirlim a boxer?
03:20.48``Erika bit boxy, yeah
03:20.49``Erik:D
03:20.56punkrockgirlwhat/?!$?@!#%
03:21.01punkrockgirlhows that
03:21.03punkrockgirl:P
03:21.05brlcadi love the s8, but that's like loving the ford gt
03:21.08``Erikhttp://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1139668
03:21.22``Erikheh, kermit keeps talking about his buddy with a ford gt
03:21.25punkrockgirlwhen i think of boxes i think of flat
03:21.29punkrockgirlam i flat?
03:21.43punkrockgirl:P
03:21.44``Erikno, punker, just a square
03:21.49punkrockgirlha
03:21.57punkrockgirlyeah?
03:21.58punkrockgirlwell
03:22.07punkrockgirlyoure so square that youre a cube
03:22.10``Eriks8 is under the 100k mark, right? it's like 80?
03:22.11brlcadokay, I think the radio is about to loose a listener
03:22.18punkrockgirlalready lost me
03:22.20punkrockgirl:P
03:22.23punkrockgirlits ok
03:22.31punkrockgirli left about 10 mins ago
03:23.07brlcadshe just said hi to you
03:23.17``Erikheh
03:23.23punkrockgirloh
03:23.25punkrockgirlthanks :D
03:23.41``Erikya renting a truck, brlcad?
03:24.14``ErikI believe I am promised to do somehting on wow tomorrow, otherwise I think I can help ya, y'know, drink your beer and not lift anything heavy
03:24.37brlcad"punkrockgirl likes vaseline too"
03:24.41punkrockgirlhahaha
03:24.53punkrockgirlyes, um, but i prefer other things to vaseline
03:25.24``ErikI was about to flip that I'd been buying expensive shit when vaseline woulda worked heh :D
03:25.33punkrockgirlhahaha
03:25.34brlcad``Erik: yeah, picking it up tomorrow morning till i'm done
03:25.45brlcadthanks for the offer, I'll let you know if I hit a crunch
03:25.51``Erikgot anyone hleping you with the heavy stuff?
03:26.12``Erikjaylo, twinky, ? mebbe richard since he lives right there?
03:26.25brlcadi only have one thing I can't deal with solo
03:26.26``Erikor, rather, bulky stuff
03:26.31brlcadze huge tv
03:26.34punkrockgirlyou know... when i put my playlist on shuffle it does better than i do when i pick stuff
03:26.49brlcadso jlo is coming by for that
03:26.55``Erikok, cool
03:27.12brlcadfunny, I can move a 16ft couch by myself, but not that tv
03:27.17``Eriknot bringing nettie and the children? they could get underfoot if they show up
03:27.47brlcadtoo big to wrap arms around it, unwieldy .. might try something with a dolly
03:27.58brlcadnah
03:28.02``Erikwell, if you drop the couch, big whup, pick it up.. if you drop the tv... :D
03:28.10punkrockgirlok i ate a burrito with super hot sauce and i can kinda breathe a bit
03:28.16punkrockgirli need to eat more hot shit
03:28.21brlcadactually I'm selling the couches
03:28.40brlcadsomeone coming by to get them tomorrow, craigslist ftw
03:28.46``Erikw00t
03:28.56``Erikposts one truck, needs some minor work *cough* :D
03:28.58brlcadthey're getting a sweet deal :)
03:29.22``Erik"never farted in" heh
03:29.24brlcadi was just going to put them up for free, but figured I'd see if anyone responded if I put a cheap pricetag
03:29.31brlcadmakes no promises
03:29.41brlcadand sure enough, they came in droves
03:30.04brlcadtwas 3k new, so for $100 it's a steal even if they do need reupholstered now
03:30.27``Erikdares not ask
03:30.38``Erikhttp://www.tensionnot.com/Automobiles453.html
03:30.38brlcad:)
03:31.00brlcadhehe
03:31.34``Erikthere was a classified ad for a mercedes that said "never been farted in", I can't find it
03:34.53punkrockgirlok i totally cant breathe, about to give up and go to bed
03:34.57punkrockgirlits so frustrating
03:36.02brlcad:(
03:38.09punkrockgirl:(
03:38.14punkrockgirlit sucks
03:38.27punkrockgirli should take some medicine but i have drank a lot
03:39.05brlcaddoesn't see the problem
03:40.34brlcadwants to try to compile brl-cad using tcc
03:42.46``Erikcould be interesting... tendra might be a gentler first step... and here I was contemplating an __attribute__ tag
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04:35.41starseeker``Erik:  don't blame you being scared of carrot top, but if anyone ever needed a good smackdown...
04:36.36starseeker//www.kontraband.com/pics/13365/Proof-Evolution-Is-Phoney/
04:38.04starseekerthat's both funny and very sad...
04:41.12starseekerbrlcad: So... what do you do when you need to put an address on government paperwork?
05:26.40brlcadstarseeker: I put the address :)
05:27.32brlcadthere is both a physical and logical variant of the address
05:28.48brlcadcan show you on wed
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16:33.41brlcadsilly noob, attacked my weakest planet and still came out at a net deficit of 10k
16:36.06elite01what game?
16:36.41``Erikastroempires.com
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16:37.41elite01looks cool, played something similar a while ago
16:38.17brlcad``Erik: is there an easier way to find folks other than clicking on each damn system for every quadrant where there is a fleet presence?
16:39.00brlcadelite01: basic space trader game, usual lots of variables to balance, mmo
16:39.50elite01yeah
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080831

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080831

02:13.42*** join/#brlcad sam (n=sam@poulet.zoy.org)
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11:00.12``Erikbrlcad: no :( some people keep spreadsheets to track folk
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11:02.04docelicyou guys noticed brlcad.org is unaccessible? ("The MySQL error was: Too many connections.")
11:05.58``Erikhum, /usr is full *look*
11:29.23``Erikhrm, looks like /usr/var/log is the big consumer... I don't feel comfortable killing shit there, brlcad needs to wake up and address this :/
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14:02.29brlcadwakes up
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19:28.37yukonbob``Erik: has this full volume been addressed yet?
20:53.15brlcadyes
22:56.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32566 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcSolver.h solver_test.cpp): modifications to generic Backtracksolver trying to make it work
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080901

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080901

00:29.03*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
01:54.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32567 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcSolver.h solver_test.cpp): Generic backtracker functional
01:55.11brlcadwoot
02:06.12``Erik"cock goblin" hah
02:19.03CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32568 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcSolver.h pcVCSet.cpp): debug strings: removal and modification
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07:01.00blitzquick question, can brl-cad export gcode?
07:01.27blitzI need to see if I can run it with my mill
07:02.26blitzmy mill is running emc2
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13:46.01``Erikno, not yet
13:46.24``Erikhttp://gcam.js.cx might be interesting for ya, though
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15:38.38archivist_ubbleh typical quitter, I was about to point him at the emc cam links page
15:44.47*** join/#brlcad blitz (n=blitz@206.146.0.29)
15:48.19blitzI have a box named "stock" and a rcc named "hole1". How do I combine these so that "hole1" is cut through "stock"  ?
15:49.33archivist_ubblitz from your earlier question http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Cam, hang around in irc answers are often slow
15:52.18blitzthanks for the link, thats where I first got the idea of using brl-cad for my mill. I had used it before but didn't really do much except do the tutorial. I think I can get gcam working with brl-cad if I convert .g to .dxf
16:06.02blitzafter a raytrace, how do I clear the screen?
16:11.37blitzI can clear the current wireframe stuff with "Z" but I cant get rid of the raytrace
16:14.35blitznevermind, I just turned framebuffer off. :-)
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18:45.13blitzhow do I save a raytrace?
18:53.48blitzand how can I have the graphics window show the xyz axis?
19:17.33blitzok, I guess it's the "V" key...
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080902

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080902

10:23.51*** join/#brlcad cad94 (n=c89eea63@bz.bzflag.bz)
10:50.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32569 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (ged_private.h rmap.c which.c): Flesh out libged's rmap function.
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14:38.42andrecastelohowdy :D
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17:04.19brlcadhowdy andrecastelo !
17:04.21brlcadhow goes it?
17:04.35andrecastelohowdy brlcad
17:04.48andrecasteloschool period is ending
17:05.21andrecastelofinal exams and such
17:05.48andrecastelothat's why i've been away for a while
17:09.05brlcadi figured as much
17:09.12brlcadgood luck with the exams
17:19.13andrecastelothank you :D
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22:09.49starseekerTcl/tk sucks
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22:15.15andrecastelohowdy!
22:22.30starseekerbrlcad:  correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like ALL the working commands are piped through wdb_obj.c at the moment?
23:18.58starseekerarrrgh
23:19.05starseekerKERN_INVALID_ADDRESS?
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23:22.53mafmho ho ho
23:22.59mafmdances the new laptop dance
23:24.18mafmand congrats brlcad, bzflag just entered in debian archives :)
23:27.37andrecastelooh hi mafm
23:27.56andrecasteloit's unusual to see you online so late :b
23:28.10andrecastelocongratulations on the new laptop :D
23:35.17mafmthanks
23:35.38mafmlet's see if it's better than the previous one :P
23:36.28mafmand yep, it's quite late, I'm at my parent's place with a brief holidays/unimportant exams :)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080903

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080903

00:07.47mafmwell, I'd better go
00:07.49mafmgood night!
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03:26.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32570 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (nfind.c nfind.h): (log message trimmed)
03:26.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: Beginnings of work on the new find command - intention is to have (insofar as it
03:26.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: makes sense) the full power of the standard Unix style find command available in
03:26.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: BRL-CAD. Eventually this will replace the existing find.c file, but as it is
03:26.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: nowhere near ready for primetime keep it elsewhere for now. DO NOT ADD to
03:26.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: makefiles. At this stage the effort is to get very basic functionality working,
03:27.13CIA-4BRL-CAD: then build from there. If substituted in correctly this version can see objects
03:27.34starseekerdecides that's as good a stopping point as any and heads home for the evening...
03:41.19louipcyar glad to have BRL-CAD working again
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11:12.48``Erikstarseeker: tcl sucks, but if you look at it the right way, it's almost like a shitty lisp with horrible syntax... it has a fair number of the simple concepts
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11:55.41andrecastelogood morning :D
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14:36.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32571 10/brlcad/trunk/ (20 files in 6 dirs): Added ADC (angle distance cursor) functions to libged. Added ADC drawing to libdm. Added ADC command to libtclcad.
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19:07.05starseekerwoot!  Go Malamud!
19:11.13``Erikmalawhat?
19:13.17starseekerCarl Malamud - putting all kinds of public law and code online for free
19:13.28starseekersometimes in defiance of claimed copyright by states
19:13.48``Erikah, that project, yeah, sounds cool
19:13.57starseekerit's awesome
19:14.12``Erikthat fucktards are trying to exert IP crap over public law is bull
19:14.17starseekercan't wait until someone gets public law organized into a subversion or git repository :-)
19:14.35``Erikheh, cvs diff ftw?
19:14.42starseekerexactly :-)
19:14.52starseekerfinally make sense out of US law :-)
19:15.07archivist_ubnot possible
19:15.15starseekersubmit diffs to your congresscritter ;-)
19:15.30``Erikcvs ann, acquire pitchfork and torch
19:15.33``Erik:D
19:15.34archivist_ubcompile a lawyer
19:16.21starseekerNow that hard disks have caught up, there really is no excuse for not having all public law in the united states available as a download
19:16.30starseekerheck, all public works
19:16.52``ErikI think the capacities were there a decade ago
19:17.07starseeker<snort> not sure about that, ever seen a law library?
19:17.23``Erikum, had one in my posession about ten years ago :D
19:17.42starseekerwith case history and everything?
19:18.18``Eriklaw firm sold their old server to upgrade, had a stack of scsi cdroms and 3.5" floppy with netware on it, with a single nic
19:18.26starseekerlol!
19:18.40``Erikwe think the company didn't realize the $10 'puter we bought still had their $10k of cd's in it
19:19.16``Erikthe neat thing was the floppy was mounted in the lower hard drive things, facing inside, so you had to disassemble the machine to eject the disk :D
19:19.40``Erikwe slapped a drive in and installed I think suse at a luc
19:20.00starseekerdid they ever ask for the disks back?
19:20.10``Erikd'no, I wasn't there at the purchase
19:20.10starseekersaw systems like that in libraries, come to think of it...
19:20.28``Erikthey drug it to the luc meeting and we tore into it
19:20.52starseekerheh
19:22.58starseekeralways found law very boring, but access to the whole of it and applying analysis tools to make sense of it is something else again
19:24.13archivist_ubI bought an Altos386 for work and it had case details still on it
19:28.18starseekereek
19:30.03archivist_ubit was at a time in the UK when lawyers were miss selling mortgages and were being struck off, they didnt get time to clear the disk
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21:28.54mafmhello
21:54.36mafmcongrats to all gsoc students, I think that we all passed the evaluations :)
22:06.32louipcnice
22:07.53mafmnow time for the mentors to go to the parties ¬_¬
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23:41.05andrecastelohello folks
23:41.09andrecastelocongratulations to everyone :D
23:41.27andrecasteloand a very big thank you to brlcad and ``Erik :D
23:46.58mafmhi andrecastelo :)
23:47.02andrecastelohey mafm
23:47.06andrecastelo>)
23:47.11andrecastelo:)*
23:47.45mafmwell, I better go to finish some things and sleep
23:47.50mafmsee you :)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080904

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080904

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04:26.00yukonbobhello, cadheads
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19:31.31andrecastelohowdy all
19:33.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32572 10/brlcad/trunk/ (10 files in 6 dirs): Added grid and snap-to-grid functionality.
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20:57.41CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32573 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Now able to print the full path string for a returned match. Requires db_fullpath_traverse tree walker, so adding that in this commit as well.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080905

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080905

00:47.24*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
01:08.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32574 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/analyze.c mged/anal.c): make findang() static
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04:02.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32575 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (nfind.c nfind.h): Update the find routines to use arguments to work on the plans, and return integers to allow error mechanisms to do their thing. MGED doesn't crash any more when an unescaped * is expanded by TCL.
04:34.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32576 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/nfind.c: Activate other parsing options, fix a few more problems.
05:05.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32577 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
05:05.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: Fix a crash caused by too few args, add to normal MGED environment as nfind for
05:05.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: easier testing. Although this is technically user visible I'm not quite sure
05:05.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: it's NEWS file ready, so holding off - more work to do both in features and
05:05.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: testing.
05:10.34starseekerHere's an illustration of pretty much all it can do right now, using m35.g as the test db:  http://paste.bzflag.bz/m505c5334
05:10.41starseekerall it's got is name, but it's a start
05:10.59starseekeris going home now...
05:16.16Ralithnice
05:18.04starseekeris mildly proud of himself for rewiring the plan handling, error handling, and a new tree walker on his own, although he's sure brlcad will quickly thrash it to compost when he gets a chance ;-)
05:20.04starseekerlogs out and hits the road
08:08.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32578 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
08:08.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: Fix icon and redirected invocation after much pain and suffering.
08:08.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: This 'should' properly refix sf bug 2019280 (mged incorrectly deduces
08:08.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: interactivity).
08:08.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: Wasn't able to find out exactly why select() is returning exceptfds
08:08.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: set. There is no MSG_OOB pending afaikt and recv() reports it as not
08:08.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: a valid socket making it difficult to distinguish between a here doc
08:14.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32579 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/nfind.c: include nfind.h
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16:57.39*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || The 2008 Google Summer of Code is complete! -- Thanks deserved to all of our students! || (Source) Release 7.12.6 posted 2008-08-19 || Mailing lists are now reply-to-list instead of reply-to-sender by default
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19:56.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32580 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/ (get_regions.tcl reid.tcl remat.tcl): use 'get' instead of 'db' as a dependency since db doesn't exist until after opendb.
19:57.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32581 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/tclIndex: update the index for get_regions.tcl
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21:40.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32582 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (nfind.c nfind.h): Add the ability to use nfind with attributes, e.g. nfind -attr rgb=255/255/255 -attr oshader=glass to find all the objects with colorless glass as a shader.
21:41.17starseekertechnically I guess that's white glass - oh well
21:43.48starseekerneed to add something specific for "nonstandard" attributes - e.g. find an attribute not in the supplied list.  Maybe add support for -attr !(region, region_id, ...,) or some such...
21:45.24starseekermaybe find has that tucked away somewhere, or something similar...
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080906

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080906

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01:44.48deeeffacheis there any more detailed installation documentation other then README and INSTALL??  I downloaded 7.10.4.  Theres no configure file though.  I downloaded autogen.sh, libtools, autoconf and automake.. I put autogen.sh in the same dir with INSTALL and README and ran it.. the resulting configure file runs, but make fails.  was that the right place to put it?
01:55.18starseekerYou might want to download the 7.12.6 tarball and try that
01:55.40starseeker./configure --enable-all && make
01:55.49starseekerunless you want to use some system libs
01:56.04starseekerthen ./configure && make
01:58.09louipcyeah the tarball should have pretty much everything you need
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02:37.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32583 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/nfind.c: Whoopsie - fix order of args to fnmatch, so I actually get pattern matching
03:17.28louipc↵
03:46.15starseekerthen ./configure && make
03:46.18starseekerwhoops
03:46.20starseekersorry
03:49.21louipchey starseeker
03:50.49louipcdo you know how to disable follow mouse window focus in mged?
04:32.05deeeffacheok, i downloaded 7.12.2.. still no configure scripts or anything
04:39.11deeeffacheand you guys said 7.12.6.. and i was downloading ht elinux package not the source.. um, i think i should be alright now, thanks for making me notice
04:51.41CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32584 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (nfind.c nfind.h): add nattr option - a simple reversal of the attr option, but useful for (say) finding all objects with attributes that do NOT have the region attr set: nfind -nattr region -attr \*
05:41.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32585 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/ (6 files): need to make sure the commands we're looking for are loaded if they're available otherwise info commands may still fail.
05:45.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32586 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/wdb_obj.c mged/cmd.c mged/cmd.h mged/setup.c): add a stub interface for commands (like 'db') that don't exist until after other commands are run (e.g. opendb). this lets us get help on commands even if they don't exactly exist
06:13.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32587 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (nfind.c nfind.h):
06:13.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: Add stdattr option which takes 0 or 1 and sorts based on whether attributes are
06:13.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: standard - 1 returns objects with one or more standard attributes and no
06:13.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: non-standard, 0 returns objects with one or more non-standard. Between the zero
06:13.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: setting for this option and the attr option it should now be possible to achieve
06:13.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: the effects desired in feature request 1177374.
06:29.22deeeffacheis there a list of what libraries are required for compile anywhere??
06:57.58Ralithdeeeffache, configure will tell you what, if anything, is missing. You'll find brl-cad to be pretty self-contained, though.
07:01.31deeeffachei have an error during make    libtool: link: cannot find the library `../../src/other/incrTcl/libitk.la'
07:02.34deeeffacheany recommendation?
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18:31.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32588 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (nfind.c nfind.h): Tweak behavior of stdattr option - add -1 option that will print a table of ALL nonstandard attr,value pairs at the expense of ignoring other find options.
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18:32.39bjorkBSDhow's good-ole brl these days?
18:32.48starseekerbusy :-)
18:34.57bjorkBSDhmm. i need to revive my brl-cad-iness.
18:35.03bjorkBSDit's still use tcl/tk right?
18:35.09starseekeryep
18:35.28starseekerwork going on exploring other options, but for the moment it's still tcl/tk
18:40.11bjorkBSDhmmm.
18:41.08starseekerThe libged work Bob is doing will help make the functionality MGED independent
19:16.34yukonbobhello, cadheads
19:17.01yukonbobstarseeker: re: options BLASPHEMY!!!
20:20.06brlcadsettles in and breathes a sigh of relief
20:21.41brlcadstarseeker: find has (or at least you should add it) built-in negation support, so if you have a -stdattr option, finding non-standard options becomes simply -not -stdattr
20:22.22brlcad-not -or -and with parens gives you complete boolean recipes for just about any action
20:27.06brlcadthat might/should make the arg to -stdattr just go away
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21:17.06brlcaddeeeffache: did you figure out your compile problems?
21:17.30brlcadthe libitk.la problem sounds like a stale libtool, need to re-run autogen.sh and make noprod
21:47.43deeeffachebrlcad: Many thanks. got past that error.. theres a new one now, but i can take care of this one.
22:32.30deeeffacheomg it works.  Thanks to everyone who helped out in the past day.
22:47.50brlcaddeeeffache: be sure to check out the tutorials on the website
22:48.04brlcadthere's a lot to learn before things start to click and make sense
22:49.09yukonbobheh -- _now_ the hard part begins ;)
23:15.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32589 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: still need to make mged behave better detecting whether it's being run interactively or not.
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23:56.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32590 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_path.c: comment ws
23:58.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32591 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: ws
23:58.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32592 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: have GED_INIT() call ged_init() since it does almost everything we need
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080907

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080907

00:03.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32593 10/brlcad/trunk/ (13 files in 7 dirs): (log message trimmed)
00:03.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: absorb the old mged 'edcolor' command into the 'color' command as a -e option.
00:03.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: this reduces the entropy by removing a lot of duplication shared between the two
00:03.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: commands. they still could use some refactoring to make _ged_edcolor go away,
00:03.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: but it's a start. this ALSO makes it so there is no mged command that doesn't
00:03.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: have non-blocking behavior when run without arguments (edcolor blocks until
00:03.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: editor terminates). there are still some edcolor hooks that need to be removed
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00:29.03deeeffacheIm going through all the docs now and tutorials..  Is there a comprehensive list of keyboard shortcuts anywhere?  And, what does Shift+z do and how do i stop it??
00:32.29brlcadpress 0
00:33.01brlcadxyzXYZ all rotate the view along that axis forward and reverse (in caps)
00:33.10brlcad0 stops the rotation
00:33.18brlcademulates a knob device
00:34.03brlcadthere isn't a comprehensive list of shortcuts for mged's display manager -- there is, however, a command quick reference sheet and a shift-grips guide (for manipulating the view with your mouse)
00:34.19brlcadthe menus will show you what the shortcuts are if there is a key bound
00:40.00deeeffachethanks, the 1000 fps of a rotating wireframe sphere was causing my pc to overheat a lil bit, i do have those to reference sheets you mentioned.. moving on
00:44.16starseekerbrlcad:  The difficulty with finding non-standard options is if I not something that finds standard attributes, it also returns things that have NO attributes
00:44.45starseekerbrlcad:  I'll think about it some more - I was a tad tired working on it earlier
00:45.26starseekerI need to make sure it doesn't return just things that have ONLY non-standard attributes
00:47.29starseekeralso Dwayne wants a table printout of objects and attributes, which isn't what find does.
00:47.32brlcadstarseeker: sounds like you need another option
00:47.39brlcadwhat do you have now?
00:48.34brlcadfind is considerably more powerful and useful than table processing
00:48.35starseekerjust the stdattr option - 1 returns all objects with only standard attributes, 0 returns all objects with 1 or more nonstandard attributes, and -1 is Dwayne's table
00:48.40brlcadtis a valid request, but different problem
00:48.45starseekernods
00:48.57starseekerthe attr table should probably just be a new command
00:49.13brlcadgut says find really shouldn't dump multiple formats at this point
00:49.22starseekerthought so too
00:49.43starseekerjust wanted to use find to kill that feature request - in retrospect that doesn't make much sense though
00:51.18starseekercan I just make a nonstdattr command that takes a list of "standard" attributes and does what Dwayne wants?
00:51.28starseekerdidn't like hardcoding what "standard" was either
00:52.13brlcadfor find, I expected you'd have something like -attr akin to -name, -aregex akin to -regex but for attributes, and -stdattr basically being a shorthand for a long list of ( -attr regionID -or -attr color -or ... )
00:52.37brlcadmaybe even exactly doing that expansion in the plan preparation
00:53.21starseekerwould prefer to take the "stdattr" question out of find - you think it has merit?
00:53.33brlcadso if you wanted all objects with non-standard attributes set, find / -attr * -not -stdattr
00:53.49brlcadi could go either way
00:54.15brlcadseems out of place, but there is a lot of value in knowing what's off the norm in a db
00:54.29brlcadno sure what the corrollary in that case is with fs find
00:54.44brlcadalso, if you want a 'find' that doesn't conflict namespace-wise, you could just call it 'search'
00:55.08brlcadmakes it unambiguous and doesn't conflict with system or tcl
00:55.15brlcadeven if use is the same
00:57.43starseekerbrlcad: find / -attr * -not -stdattr was what I was trying to figure out
00:57.59starseekerI knew this would go faster with you around ;-)
00:58.56brlcadalso, if you're going to return full-path matches, you'll probably need some way to deal with the duality nature of the searches (sometimes as tree, sometimes as flat dir)
00:59.14brlcadmaybe make "/" and "." imply one or the other
00:59.34starseekerHmm - there is some kind of "path" option - maybe that will work.
00:59.42starseekerbbl, gotta get supper
00:59.48brlcade.g. find / -name whatever  vs  find . -name whatever
01:00.08brlcadwith the prior returning /path/to/whatever and the later returning just whatever pathless
01:00.41brlcadso if you do find . -type region, you get a list of all regions in the db
01:01.06brlcadbut if you find / -type region, you get a list of all uses of a region in an assembly in the db (unless there are top-level regions)
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02:54.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32594 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (nfind.c nfind.h): Revert nattr and stdattr commands - the former should be handled with not and the latter needs a bit of rethinking.
02:56.00brlcadstarseeker: another option is to just use -attr but provide some keyword/group
02:58.25brlcade.g. something like -group for permissions, like "--attrgroup default"
02:58.37starseekerthat's an idea
02:59.18brlcadthe "better" fix I think would be to introduce namespaces and all the defaults would just be in a default namespace
02:59.25brlcadthen you'd just use -attr
02:59.43starseekernamespaces?
02:59.59brlcadfind . -attr ::std::*
03:00.12starseekerah
03:00.16brlcadinstead of regionID, it'd be something like ::std::regionID
03:00.33brlcadbut that entails a fair bit of changes to support it
03:00.39starseekerindeed
03:00.43brlcadsince the point is to have a namespace that is only optionally specified
03:01.32starseekerre: name - do you want me to change it to "search"?
03:01.41brlcadanother option could be to make the defaults all UPPERCASE
03:02.23brlcadthen you don't even need namespaces, you'd just find . -regattr '[A-Z]+'
03:02.47brlcador some similar naming convention
03:02.53starseekerI actually kind of like the "attrgroup" notion, particularly if we let the user make their own
03:03.33brlcadheh, if you do that .. they have to be stored :)
03:03.35starseekerhave an attrgroup attribute that lists which attributes are "groups", and then have attr_standard, attr_analysis1, etc.
03:04.01brlcadcould set the attribute groups as attributes on _GLOBAL
03:04.38brlcadcould hook it into the attr command
03:05.19starseekernice
03:05.25brlcadhm, have to think on that some .. it is a bit error-prone/fugly
03:05.49starseekersure
03:06.09brlcadit's certainly more work too (compared to a naming/namespacing convention)
03:06.28brlcadwanders home
03:06.33starseekerisn't too sure he wants to change the naming convention at this point for the standard attributes...
03:06.37starseekerwhere's home now?
03:06.44brlcadhotel :)
03:06.50starseekerah :-)
03:06.59starseekerwill you be in Monday?
03:06.59brlcadfinally healed
03:07.04starseeker??
03:07.04brlcadyeah
03:07.16starseekerwhat happened?
03:07.18brlcadwas in quite a bit of pain, lots of injuries from the move
03:07.29starseekerowowow
03:07.33starseekernot good
03:08.06starseekerok, take care - glad to see you back!
03:08.16brlcadyeah, on the last day after I'd been up about 40 hours hauling stuff around and on my feet the whole time was probably the worst
03:08.28starseekerjeez
03:08.40brlcadi've not been in that much pain in years, probably not since I had hypothermia .. very very painful
03:09.20starseekeryou shoulda asked for help - we could have pitched in
03:09.39brlcadI know, lots of offers to help I turned down :)
03:09.45brlcadappreciated though
03:09.58brlcadit was just something I had to do this go-round
03:10.20brlcadmaybe get help when I move in someplace next month
03:10.30brlcadfor now, though, it's really nice being mobile
03:10.35starseekerheh
03:10.48starseekercan see you getting to like it...
03:10.49brlcadbut I now have a mountain of e-mails and past-due deadlines to respond to, hence the weekend
03:10.54brlcadI am already!
03:11.07brlcadit's very addictive.. I could just pack up and go anywhere
03:11.08brlcadtonight
03:11.11brlcadpretty cool :)
03:11.21starseekerah, yes - I take it you got the messages from all sides about presenting next week?
03:11.31brlcadlate thursday :)
03:11.45starseekeryou good there?  Anything I can do to help?
03:12.01brlcadapparently I was signed up to present while out at siggraph (of which I've still not gotten to those e-mails yet)
03:12.10brlcadunless I missed something even older
03:12.17starseekereeek
03:12.20brlcadno matter, it shouldn't be anything difficult
03:12.33starseekerOK.  Let me know if you change your mind
03:12.34brlcadjust needed to have a dry run on tuesday and I took leave the whole week
03:13.05brlcadat least there's no way I could have done that on tuesday .. physically could not have made it in at that point
03:13.29starseekerjeez
03:13.50brlcadstill have to find my phone though
03:14.07brlcadit's dead somewhere
03:15.24brlcadthe only thing I really miss is my data archive ... which I annoyingly and inadvertently put into a crate at the very back of my storage
03:15.32starseekerouch
03:15.38brlcadoh, and my scotch glass
03:15.41starseekerlol
03:15.47starseekersounds like you needed that
03:15.57brlcadhas the scotch, just not his glass
03:16.27starseekersounds like an excuse for a scotch glass upgrade
03:16.36brlcadI should at least have internet now .. didn't at first while still between spots
03:16.42starseekerfigured
03:17.12starseekerkinda unnerving working on find on my own though :-)
03:17.12brlcadreally wanders back now
03:17.15starseekerk
03:17.22starseekerhave a good night!
03:17.27brlcadyeah, I haven't gotten to that bin of mail yet :)
03:17.38brlcadI have like 300 message that have piled up
03:17.44brlcad200 are for gsoc though
03:17.46starseekertries to fix all the bugs before brlcad sees them...
03:18.09brlcadthe only thing I saw at a glance that was questionable
03:18.12brlcadwas the new walker
03:18.13starseekeroh, when you get a chance, can you set me up with admin so I can do a 7.12.6 news post on the website?
03:18.23brlcadtrying to have *fewer* walkers, more generalized :)
03:18.30starseekerbrlcad:  Yeah, I figured you would be leary of that...
03:18.32brlcadnot more specialized :)
03:19.16starseekerI wanted full paths, walking the tree not the pointers, and function calls for every comb and leaf
03:19.29starseekercouldn't figure out how to get that out of any of the existing options
03:19.34brlcadthere are plenty of walkers that will give you every comb and leaf
03:19.53brlcadnot sure what you mean by "walking the tree not the pointers" though
03:20.08starseekerdb_functree uses the next pointer to get all objects
03:20.21starseekerI wanted the db_walk_tree style "follow the children" approach
03:20.53brlcadstill don't "get" what you mean, but I don't need to just yet :)
03:20.57starseekerI'll run it by you when you get a chance - that's one of the reasons it's not announced yet
03:21.05brlcadit's also under the hood
03:21.16brlcadsave for the raytrace.h publishing
03:21.23brlcadshould add a comment saying don't use it for now
03:21.30starseekerright
03:21.32brlcadso it doesn't have to be deprecated
03:21.41brlcador don't even put it there
03:21.59starseekercan I call it from libged without it?
03:22.08brlcadsure
03:22.12brlcadit's just a declaration
03:22.20brlcadyou just declare it where you use it
03:22.41brlcadsans all the BU RT wrapping that the public headers need
03:23.08brlcadreally wanders off now
03:23.19starseekerOK - I'll slap a comment in tonight and look at it on Monday
03:23.20starseekernight!
03:23.20brlcadi'll be back on-line in a few min
03:23.26brlcadcya
03:23.28starseekerOh, OK :-)
03:25.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32595 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: Add comment to not use db_fullpath_traverse as it is experimental - may take it out of public altogether.
04:15.06brlcadmunches on a most excellen gyro
04:24.36starseekerbrlcad is eating gyroscopes?
04:24.59brlcadyep
04:25.02brlcadspins
04:25.37starseeker"food that will give you balance in life"
04:27.07brlcad:)
04:27.59starseekerbrlcad:  I hope find is worth a month 'cause it's looking like it could take that :-P
04:29.19starseekershould learn how to write tcl scripts for real fun inside MGED...
04:29.22brlcadit's probably worth more frankly
04:29.38brlcadit really is one of those uber-powerful commands
04:29.43starseekerphew :-)
04:29.47brlcadespecially if done well
04:30.01starseekerwill try to do it well - he sure doesn't want to do it poorly
04:30.54starseekerdid get through some of the grunt stuff like rewiring the error handling last Thurs, but at the expense of a 2am night
04:31.04starseekergot me in a bit of trouble ;-)
04:34.33starseekerupdates his gentoo box, just to keep things lively
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14:34.57``Erikwow, brlcad isn't dead, nor living out of his car anymore!
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14:54.41brlcadheh
16:51.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32596 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/plot.c: use the appropriate root instead of relying on a PATH search
17:08.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32597 10/brlcad/trunk/ (11 files in 5 dirs):
17:08.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: mged no longer requires that the PATH be set in order to run various commands
17:08.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: that get externally invoked under the hood (e.g. fbclear). this has come up
17:08.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: before, but was reminded by a forum post from Murray Blakeman (mblakeman). The
17:08.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: fix is to simply call bu_brlcad_root with the bin/command so that it does the
17:08.13CIA-4BRL-CAD: proper lookup.
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19:27.36starseekernote to self: investigate possibility of a -printattr option for new find command
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080908

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080908

00:32.41brlcadstarseeker: that'd be better left to -exec
00:33.04brlcadfind . -attr regionID -exec attr get regionID {} \;
00:33.21brlcadsomething like that
00:34.22brlcadfind searches for objects in the db that have some characteristic, itemizing those objects -- doing anything with them beyond printing them is probably best left to other commands
00:35.52starseekerok
00:36.05starseekershould start working on exec
00:37.12brlcadexec is going to require some libged changes
00:37.14*** join/#brlcad andrecastelo____ (n=chatzill@189.71.72.40)
00:37.17starseekerick
00:37.22brlcadas find needs to know what commands are available
00:37.26brlcadno no, tis a good thing
00:37.32brlcadit's geometry engine work
00:37.36brlcadneeds to happen regardless
00:37.52starseekerAh.
00:37.56brlcadit should have been done for mged already, just not done yet
00:38.22starseekershould probably first get the . vs / path reporting set up... that shouldn't be too hard
00:40.25starseekeronce I do, I take it exec is by far the most critical part to get up and running?
00:42.22brlcadnot strictly necessary for the original task, but it is where most of the power is
00:54.26starseekerbrlcad:  Um - by "original task" do you mean Dwayne's feature request?
00:55.19brlcadyeah, sorta
00:55.35starseekerwell, we've got the shader part covered
00:55.38brlcadfinding objects with various attribute qualities
00:56.22starseekerthe "non-standard attribute" bit still needs some work before it can be closed :-(
01:16.05*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
01:16.05*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || The 2008 Google Summer of Code is complete! -- Thanks deserved to all of our students! || (Source) Release 7.12.6 posted 2008-08-19 || Mailing lists are now reply-to-list instead of reply-to-sender by default
02:47.35*** join/#brlcad grfrblshntz (n=smee@68-191-176-167.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com)
02:51.51grfrblshntzHello, I'm pretty new to using brlcad, and I'm trying to model a subtractive union, I used comb test u a - b, and it seems to be correct, showing a fully, and b has a dashed outline, which I'm assuming means it's the negative element.  I want to see it drawn merely with the positive element without the subtracted portion, I can't seem to find how to do this, anyone?
02:52.03brlcadwould like to buy a vowel for grfrblshntz
02:52.16grfrblshntza's are going to $1000
02:52.57brlcadfor the wireframe rendering, there's not (presently) a way to not show the wireframes for all primitives involved
02:53.17brlcadthere are ways to view an evaluated wireframe, though
02:53.33brlcadand you can always ray-trace the object -- which is usually the recommended method
02:53.37grfrblshntzevaluated, is like the ... yes.
02:53.40grfrblshntzok
02:53.47brlcadtype "rt" into the command window
02:53.52grfrblshntzok
02:54.03brlcador use the raytrace control panel under the file menu
02:54.35brlcadthat'll use an embedded framebuffer that uses the same graphics window to render the raster image into it
02:54.54grfrblshntzI tried the raytrace from the file manu, already, and the subtracted part still showed up, I must have done something wrong
02:55.02brlcadray-traced images are, however, raster images -- fully shaded evaluated displays are something we're working on
02:55.05brlcadtype "who"
02:55.24brlcadyou may still be displaying the primitives and the combination
02:55.33brlcadd a b
02:55.36grfrblshntzok
02:55.53grfrblshntzI did try "hide a"
02:55.58grfrblshntzdoes that not remove it
02:56.14brlcaddunno :)
02:56.18brlcadprobably
02:56.36brlcaddraw/hide are the 'new' commands, I'm used to the old cryptic short versions
02:56.39grfrblshntz(I may have made a mistake I tried various combinations of "hide a" "B -A", and then just "draw"ing the parts I needed
02:56.43grfrblshntzok
02:56.52brlcadd to delete from the display, e to display them for editing
02:56.55grfrblshntzd a b is the cryptic version?
02:56.57grfrblshntzok
02:57.20grfrblshntzany recommendations on how to learn all those commands?
02:57.25brlcadB == Z and e
02:57.31grfrblshntzok
02:57.52brlcadyeah, there's an mged quick reference sheet on the website -- that groups them by actions
02:58.22brlcadthere's also the mged tutorial series, which goes through most of the core commands in depth over many many tutorials
02:59.07grfrblshntzOk, I looked at and downloaded the quick reference, it seemed like the command list showed more than what was on it, but I didn't do a rigorous study
03:00.00grfrblshntzI just started looking at the tutorials today, but there style is very foreign to me.
03:00.06grfrblshntzThanks for you help
03:02.20brlcadthe command list?
03:02.22brlcadwhich list?
03:03.35brlcadthe tutorials all build upon each other, with each lesson teaching a new concept -- more like lessons you'd get if you took a training class for a few days
03:03.48brlcadyou wouldn't just jump into the fifth lesson, for example
03:04.32brlcadthey are pretty comprehensive of the basics, though .. and can usually be done in under a day if you are intent on reading and learning
03:04.59grfrblshntzoh, sorry, I went away a bit.
03:05.05grfrblshntzIt's.. in the help menu...
03:05.14grfrblshntzhelp commands
03:05.15brlcadthe quick reference covers 99% of the most important commands
03:05.18grfrblshntzhelp > commands
03:05.20grfrblshntzok
03:05.54brlcadthe ones its missing are mostly for advanced modeling practices, experimental or custom commands, or redudandant commands mostly
03:06.06grfrblshntzok
03:06.20grfrblshntzlots of terse names
03:06.47brlcadyep, the mged command line was developed very similarly to the unix command line (and around the same timeframe)
03:07.43grfrblshntzOh, yes, I love apropos
03:07.53grfrblshntzI was thrilled that that was in there
03:08.09grfrblshntzIt's how I've gotten most of what I've done so far done
03:08.17brlcadit's not a very good apropos implementation, needs to be expanded
03:08.24brlcadalong with full manpages for all commands :)
03:08.54brlcadthere are about 300 mged commands and about 400 external command-line commands
03:08.54grfrblshntzwell, I just appreciate the attempt
03:09.23grfrblshntzI just found out about "tire", anything else like that thats fun to use?
03:09.25brlcadabout 300 of the external ones are documented, most of the mged ones are documented in the help and (more comprehensively) on the wiki
03:09.53grfrblshntzok
03:09.55brlcadtire is one of the 400, probably ;)
03:10.36brlcadthere is a fence generator, a vegitation generator, a "sphere flake" generator, tools for making nuts and bolts, several sample geometry databases
03:10.48grfrblshntzUmmm... you are "brlcad"?  Are you involved with developing somehow? or just a big enough fan to make it you login name?
03:10.56brlcadjust scratching the surface of course
03:11.19brlcadyou could say i'm a bit of a fan :)
03:11.30grfrblshntzwell, I can see why, lots of good stuf
03:11.32grfrblshntzstuff
03:11.43brlcadis also the project lead
03:12.00grfrblshntzThe last time I tried it, I got intimidated, and gave up, this time, for some reason, I'm having better results
03:12.33grfrblshntzI've been searching for a good open source CAD program for a while, so far I've found brlcad and freecad
03:12.47grfrblshntzI'm not sure about freecad, but I'm not giving up on it ye
03:12.49grfrblshntzyet
03:13.18brlcadwe're by far the most extensively developed and the only actually in production use that I know of
03:13.23brlcadbut we still have a LONG ways to go
03:13.37brlcadespecially compared to the featuresets of most of the commercial CAD systems
03:14.23grfrblshntzI'm a long way off from being able to write any code for a CAD program, but something like BRLCAD means I can start reading code
03:14.24brlcadour focus over the years has been very different and our resources considerably constrained -- you're more than welcome to join the team to help make things better ;)
03:15.01grfrblshntzWell, I'll start reading the code, and see if I can find something I might be able to help with, I'd love to, eventually
03:15.06brlcadthis is kind of where we currently sit: http://brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png  
03:15.17grfrblshntzJoining projects is one of my next goals
03:17.09brlcadrelating that to other packages, CADD is sort of the AutoCAD domain, CATIA sort of fits in the CAID/CAD domain, GibbsCAM is square in the MCAD domain, etc
03:17.09grfrblshntzThat's a nice diagram, what was the program that made it?
03:17.09brlcadindesign or illustrator, I forget .. think it was indesign
03:17.10grfrblshntzok
03:17.10grfrblshntzI guess it doesn't look that hard to make with a normal editor, I guess I just don't do much of that stuff
03:17.14brlcadlooking to replicate it with free tools, and starseeker has a really nice conversion, but still figuring out what to do with the fonts
03:17.30*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@12.162.247.10)
03:17.39brlcadit uses the adobe garamond pro font iirc, which there's nothing free that comes anywhere close to its polish
03:18.58brlcada lot of effort went into the exact kernings, layouts, how the dashed lines wrap around corners, the exact overlaps of the industries, the transparency/colors used, etc
03:19.30dtidrowI'm back  ;-)
03:19.42dtidrowwhat did I miss?
03:20.04grfrblshntzWhile I've got your ear, and you seem to know quite a bit, I'm currently just designing some woodworking projects, you know, lots of simple arb8's, and I was wondering if there is anything that I could use to convert one arb8 into several smaller pieces.  I was thinking of taking an arb8, and converting the edges to arb8's representing 2X4's, and the faces into plywood, etc.
03:20.06grfrblshntz?
03:20.17brlcadhowdy dtidrow
03:20.29brlcaddtidrow: noticed you missed another siggraph.. :/
03:20.36dtidrowyeah  ;-(
03:20.55dtidrowjumping jobs tends to do that...
03:21.13dtidrownot to mention relocating...
03:21.54brlcadgrfrblshntz: hmm
03:23.21grfrblshntzOk, it took a bit, but I just finally got to the point where I raytraced  test/{a,b}, after "d a b", and it worked just like you said it should, I must not have deleted last time
03:23.23brlcadgrfrblshntz: not sure exactly what you mean, but you can use the "inside" command in mged
03:23.57brlcadthat will hollow out an arb8 by creating an inner arb8 the uses thicknesses specified for each of the 6 faces
03:24.12grfrblshntzok, that's closer, I guess
03:24.16brlcadotherwise, you can cp the arb, and move the faces as needed for expecific cases
03:24.27grfrblshntzthat's what I've been doing, so ar
03:24.28grfrblshntzfar
03:24.32grfrblshntzdangit
03:26.15grfrblshntzis there a command to, for instance, translate point 1 of shape x to the coordinates of point 1 of shape y?  for moving by easy reference?
03:26.38grfrblshntzso x is selected, with focal point 1, and something like "translate y.1"?
03:27.49brlcadyep
03:28.10brlcadsee 'keypoint' and 'permute' for starters
03:29.08grfrblshntzOk, well, I should probably just get to working on stuff for a while, I could probably come up with questions all night, but you've helped me enough, thanks, I'm sure I'll bug you again.
03:30.03brlcadbelatedly notes 3ptarb, arb, and rfarb probably are of use to him as well
03:50.39dtidrowbrlcad: so how did SIGGRAPH go?
03:52.50*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177878636.dsl.bell.ca)
03:53.44IriX64why do i get 7.11.0 out of sourceforge cvs checkout if you guys are up to 7.12.6?
04:00.32IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/7.12.6.png     <---- 7.12.6 in action :)
04:01.42deeeffachenice copter
04:01.53deeeffachethe start menu reminds me of work though...
04:02.20IriX64just plays :)
04:07.19IriX64ciao
04:25.12starseekerwonders why the open design "Gray-Hoverman Antenna" has such poor handdrawn diagrams - surely some sucker has redone them in Dia, Inkscape or XFig...
04:30.18starseekeror BRL-CAD, for that matter - then as a bonus teach the NEC analysis systems to work on BRL-CAD models :-)
04:30.56starseekerwonders why it is that so much stuff that is interesting is also completely useless...
04:32.31brlcaddtidrow: pretty good, several really interesting papers
04:33.35brlcadhaving vanilla ice sing at the softimage party was pretty funny
04:34.09brlcada really good paper on brep/nurbs, have to see if it can be implemented without violating a patent though
04:35.22brlcadand a great extension paper on breaking out models for diagrams that was an excellent follow-on to their paper last year
04:36.30brlcadthe geek bar was pretty awesome to have this year, seeing eight rooms at once with a beverage bar nearby
04:36.58brlcadotherwise overall it was alright, not as good as last year in san diego but still pretty darn good
04:39.04brlcadthe keynote was one of the best I've enjoyed to date, one of the founders of pixar spoke to lots of issues dear to my heart *sniff*
05:01.14Ralith<PROTECTED>
05:01.50brlcadRalith: dunno
05:02.11brlcadcan certainly get electrons for it easily enough as an acm member
05:03.06brlcadso if, for example, you were going to do something with it for brl-cad, probably wouldn't be a problem
05:03.19Ralithelectrons for it? O.o
05:03.27brlcada digital copy
05:03.34Ralithah.
05:03.52Ralithwould love to, but can't commit to a major project like that atm :/
05:06.13brlcadnothing too major, the basics could probably be implemented in a few weeks, the whole thing minus interactivity would probably be a great gsoc-level project
05:07.13RalithI think that might be hindered a bit by my lack of experience with handling this kind of data
05:07.33Raliththat said, I'm quite interested in going for gsoc next year
05:08.13brlcadah great, looks like at least last year's work is on-line already:  http://grail.cs.washington.edu/projects/cutaways/
05:08.40Ralithoh, that kind of diagram.
05:09.04Ralithcan't that be done easily enough with some clever subtractions?
05:09.11brlcadyep
05:09.25brlcadthe whole work is how to do those clever subtractions
05:09.31RalithI was imagining something more along the lines of engineering blueprints
05:10.02brlcadthe follow-up work was how to perform completely automatic separation of components for visualization purposes without using any cutaways
05:10.23Ralithoo
05:10.27Raliththat sounds relevant.
05:10.59brlcadboth approaches are highly relevant and useful
05:11.17brlcadand really really easy with our CSG system
05:11.27RalithI have to say
05:11.29RalithI <3 CSG
05:11.35brlcadprobably easier than what they had to do in their system
05:12.12Ralithwhat sort of UI would you want to provide? A list of parts to be exposed?
05:12.14brlcadthough they do have great interactive visualization software for theirs given their brep structure
05:12.29RalithAnything more specific than that seems like just about as much work to use as a manual cutaway.
05:13.01brlcadfor those diagrams on that site, the *only* thing specified was the object(s) listed in red
05:13.31Ralithhm.
05:14.01Ralithin that case, the extensive cutaway and other labels seem a bit excessive; or is all that configurable?
05:14.05Ralithmaybe I should just read the paper :P
05:14.08brlcadeverything else is automatic including the text layout, what to separate and label that was obstructing, how to cut (cylindrical, linear, patchwise, ..), how much to cut, how to best orient the diagram
05:14.22Ralithnice.
05:14.31brlcadit only labels the things that were in the way
05:14.42Ralithoh, cool!
05:14.53Ralith(that's a bit less than obvious with the human anatomy stuff)
05:14.53brlcadand/or whatever you asked for (in red)
05:15.18brlcadcheck out the video link
05:15.28brlcadthey show it in action
05:15.46Ralithgrabs
05:16.57brlcadmm, yeah .. 100MB
05:16.59brlcadbut worth it
05:17.10Ralithit's not like I'm doing anything realtime with my bw
05:25.30RalithI really love academia sometimes
05:25.45Ralitha big group of people who just pump out neat ideas for other people to implement
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05:49.15Ralithbrlcad, that was really neat :D
05:49.34Ralithseems more straightforward than I had imagined
05:49.58RalithI bet a lot of those classifications could be determined automatically with some accuracy, too
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10:30.17brlcadyeah, totally
12:09.58*** join/#brlcad pippoo (n=a0dc9730@bz.bzflag.bz)
12:10.23pippoociaoo a tutti
13:30.36``Erikheh "extreme deceleration syndrome"
13:36.32Axman6``Erik: commonly known as crashing? or impact?
13:37.10Axman6btw, 2^2^2^2^2^2^2 takes a long time to compute -_-
13:37.19Axman6in haskell at least
13:43.13Axman6i need a better solution to this problem -_-
13:43.43Axman6i think the fact i needed to write my own power function was a bad sign
14:00.36``Erik7 dimensions? O.o
14:01.07Axman6hyperexponentiation
14:02.08``Erik340282366920938463463374607431768211456
14:02.10``Erikall pheer lithp
14:02.46``Erikith fatht :D
14:04.16``Erikin '99 or '00, I was writing some numerical solvers, usually wrote in haskell, let it run... got bored, reimplemented it in scheme, ran it in the slowest scheme known to man (guile) and got the final results before the haskell version was done with the first or second... but that was using hugs, which I understand to be insanely slow (yet another gnu project)
14:04.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32598 10/brlcad/trunk/ (11 files in 6 dirs): Added rubber band rectangle functionality.
14:04.48Axman6yeah, ghc's the only way to go
14:04.58``Erikis that 'glaskow'?
14:05.13Axman6glasgow?
14:05.22``Eriker, yeah
14:05.48``Erikah, yes it is, I've heard that was the shizzle forizzle, hadn't messed with hit
14:06.26``Erikthe pattern match function definition style is shweet, but monads can be annoying when you just want a quick&dirty program
14:06.46Axman6they're working on some stuff atm what has the possibility of making it faster than C for parallel work, which is pretty cool
14:07.49Axman6yeah, monads are a bitch at times. i still don't have a cleat picture in my mind of what they really are
14:08.16Axman6infinite integers is pretty cool though
14:08.34Axman6well, handling infinite things in general is pretty cool
14:08.48``Eriklike map/apply type dealies? I've  been wanting to experiment with tweaking a scheme compiler to mark referential transperancy, do some minor re-arranging of the syntax tree, and automagically multi-thread and distribute work as it deems fit
14:09.46``Erik(map f '(a b c)) executes (f a) (f b) and (f c) in parallel and collects the results for return, that kinda shtuff
14:11.02Axman6yeah, sort of. more working with parallel arrays, which they're using some very simple ideas to get something very powerful
14:11.26Axman6http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2269
14:11.31Axman6worth watching
14:12.50Axman6and the way they're doing it means that programming to use GPU's for parallel computation could become _really_ easy
14:13.32Axman6literally just as easy as writing your code as if you weren't using a GPU. just use parallel types, and let the compuler and runtime handle the rest
14:13.52``Erikthat's a good website, um, the lemon one is also good
14:14.20``Erikhttp://lemonodor.com/
14:17.48Axman6also, i'm pretty sure your answer to 2^2^2^2^2^2^2 was wrong. it should be many thousands of digits (since 2^2^2^2 is a few hundred digits)
14:18.03``Eriko.O hrm, mebbe I input it wrong
14:18.25Axman6supposed to be 2 to the power of 2 to the power of 2 to the...
14:18.32``Erikooh, got order of ops backwards
14:20.34``Erikohyeah, there's the explosion
14:20.55Axman6hehe
14:21.07``Erik4 just filled my terminal
14:21.16Axman6i'm so used to powers being really easy for computers
14:21.28Axman6did it take a while to compute?
14:21.42``Erikno, was instant
14:22.06Axman6so 2^2^2.. 6 times?
14:22.26``Erik<PROTECTED>
14:22.46Axman62↑↑6 is one notation used
14:23.10Axman6yeah, need another 2 expt's in there to get the kind of answer i'm looking for ;)
14:24.12``Erikisn't sure he wants to know what the point is :D
14:24.33Axman6pwoject euler :P
14:24.37Axman6problem 188
14:25.03Axman6need to find the last 8 digits of 1777↑↑1855
14:26.10Axman6anyway, sleep time. g'night
14:28.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32599 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/libged/libged.vcproj: Remove edcolor.c from build.
14:45.41``Eriklater, dude
15:09.28*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
15:09.28*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || The 2008 Google Summer of Code is complete! -- Thanks deserved to all of our students! || (Source) Release 7.12.6 posted 2008-08-19 || Mailing lists are now reply-to-list instead of reply-to-sender by default
15:11.30*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@h-72-245-122-226.mclnva23.covad.net)
15:23.27*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5B14E3E6.dip.t-dialin.net)
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17:30.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32600 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Move db_fullpath_traverse directly into nfind, change command name to search.
17:57.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32601 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/nfind.c: Correct some more error handling, have the usage message print now only for argc < 2 since the error cases of such commands have been handled.
18:44.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32602 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (nfind.c nfind.h): Add ability to use '.' to do a 'flat' search of objects, as opposed to following the tree. In essence, this finds object rather than uses of objects - s.s instead of c1.c/s.s and c2.c/s.s
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18:56.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32603 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (nfind.c nfind.h):
18:56.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: Add stdattr back in. This time it takes no options and tests that an object has
18:56.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: only standard attributes. A ! on this option will return objects without
18:56.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: standard attributes (including no attributes) - adding an -attr \* to the
18:56.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: equation results in all objects with one or more nonstandard attributes.
18:57.24prasad_hmm has anyone used libpcre?
19:12.28brlcadprasad_: erm, you really shouldn't need to :P
19:13.03brlcadlibregex will get you posix, perl extensions are just petty syntactic sugar
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20:22.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32604 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (nfind.c nfind.h): Add -type option to search by primitive type, and also comb and region.
20:25.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32605 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (Makefile.am nfind.c nfind.h search.c search.h): move nfind.c and nfind.h to search.c and search.h
20:59.15*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5B14E3E6.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:13.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32606 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)
21:13.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: Adding new search command based off of OpenBSD's find - uses combination of !,
21:13.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: -o and () to form complex logical search structures. Currently implemented
21:13.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: options include -name, -attr, -stdattr, and -type. -attr has the ability to
21:13.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: search for either attributes or attribute,value pairs - e.g. -attr region_id vs.
21:13.58CIA-4BRL-CAD: -attr region_id=100. stdattr will return a match if an object uses only
21:14.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: standard attributes and uses more than one such attribute. name is the objects
21:14.36brlcadwhat about the rest of the boolean args?  (-and -or -not)
21:14.46starseekerthey're there
21:14.50starseeker! is there for not
21:15.01starseeker-o for or
21:15.06starseekerand is the default
21:15.08brlcadthe actual arg, not something equiv
21:15.11starseekerparenthesis work too
21:15.18brlcaddefault find, both work
21:15.33starseekerhuh.  OK, they can be added
21:15.41starseekermust have used code that didn't alias them
21:16.10brlcadthe non-cryptic versions would be preferred over the cryptic ones if we had to pick, but there's no need to limit at least for the booleans
21:17.12brlcadhmm, freebsd's find has all three -- you sure openbsd didn't have them all too?
21:17.28starseekermight have - I hacked and slashed a lot early on
21:18.25brlcadhmm, freebsd doesn't even have -o
21:18.56starseekeryeah, it's got a lot more
21:19.04starseekerjust a sec, I'll put 'em back
21:19.34brlcadah, yeah it does .. just not in the manpage
21:34.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32607 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/search.c: Add back in other names for not, and and or options
21:34.45starseekerthere ya go :-)
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22:08.32*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@c-71-197-213-172.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
22:57.31``Eriko.O it has -or in the manpage
22:57.42``Erikin the 'operators' section
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080909

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080909

00:52.21starseeker``Erik - there are a couple different options that lead to the same behavior - I missed that in my first cut
00:53.47Ralithoo
00:53.52RalithAVRs are neat.
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02:24.38brlcad``Erik: it has -or but it doesn't list -o (yet supports it)
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12:21.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32608 10/brlcad/trunk/ (182 files in 3 dirs): Removed ged_result from struct ged.
12:38.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32609 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcVariable.h solver_test.cpp): adding a compact display method (cdisplay()) to Solution object to display ranges of multiple solutions (mostly for debugging)
12:43.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32610 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/ged.h include/tclcad.h src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c): Added the following members to ged_view: gv_adc, gv_grid and gv_rect.
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13:07.58``Erikalways viewed -o as short for -or (and not safe for portable scripts)
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17:21.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32611 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Added ged_adc() to libged's command functions. Declared ged_init in ged.h (needed because of earlier redefinition of GED_INIT.
17:57.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32612 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/adc.c: Remove adc draw toggle.
18:55.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r32613 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/load.c: improved error checking. Match ISST request protocol.
18:56.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r32614 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libtienet/tienet_slave.c: C style comments
20:07.06brlcadstarseeker: iff you did get the itch to play with a table view, http://tktable.sourceforge.net/
20:07.32brlcadactually looks pretty complete (no screenshots though)
20:08.01starseekercool - thanks!
20:08.15starseekeris  there a good reverence detailing how to do an fnmatch in regex somewhere?
20:09.14brlcadtry searching for converting glob to regex
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22:10.30starseekerscowls at regex
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22:53.00starseekerlooks at FreeBSD's find, after digging up the CVS browse link
23:33.02Axman6starseeker: what's the problem?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080910

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080910

00:13.02starseekerAxman6: just working on getting the -regex option for find (search in BRL-CAD) working
00:29.59``Erikbwahahhaa
00:30.12``Erik"barak obama, the son of a black man from kenya and a white man from kansas" wow
00:30.20``Erikdaily show ftw
01:04.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32615 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (6 files in 2 dirs): two more C-style comments and a lotta cuddle bracing
01:36.07Ralithcuddle bracing?
01:36.07Ralithheh
01:36.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32616 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: looks like the DSP needs some tess() loving.. apparently never implemented
01:40.18starseekerso I can find this tomorrow:  http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/usr.bin/find/
01:44.10``Erikit's the only cuddling a lot of coders get o.O
01:44.43``Erikwhere's the linux one? in fileutils?
02:24.28brlcad~botmail for Mouette see https://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=5221211 about the solaris inst still not working right
03:15.42starseeker``Erik:  Yeah.  That one is GPL so it's a no-no for this
03:15.52starseekerdon't think it will be needed though
03:16.25starseekerwill spend a little quality time with gdb tomorrow and figure out what he did wrong
03:17.14starseekeron a side note, why the heck didn't my college programming courses spend about two weeks teaching gdb in the second semester????
03:28.00RalithI've been getting an increasing appreciation for the annoyingness of the GPL's viral nature lately.
03:31.40brlcadstarseeker: gdb (or any debugger) wasn't taught in any of my courses either .. heck most of them didn't even teach the languages they required
03:32.03brlcadyou were expected to pick it up in a week or two, all part of background research expected of everyone
03:54.21starseekerbrlcad:  That works find for those with enough computer background to do it - at the time my big computer experiences were Netscape on Macs and DOS editor in high school
03:54.32starseekerPlus a little Offic
03:54.33starseekere
03:55.41starseekerAh, well.  Fair enough I guess, but at the time prior computer experience for freshman was NOT a given
03:56.00brlcadneither for my program
03:56.21brlcadthey just didn't teach it, a lot of unis are like that
03:56.44starseekerI suppose.  It would really have helped though
03:58.46starseekerI can see it being too much of a "trade school" approach
03:59.19brlcadyeah, I think that's basically what it amounts to
03:59.28starseekerremembers he DID get one programming experience in high school - Pascal :-)
04:00.03starseekerthe last year before they started in with (IIRC) C++
04:00.12starseekerwas a bit annoyed
04:00.14brlcadakin to learning landscaping but never having someone teach you how to use a weed whacker
04:00.24starseekernods
04:03.02starseekerthe "trade school" argument would have held up better if they didn't put us through that semester of "Office 101"
04:03.38starseekerstill cringes at the memory of wasting time doing trivial office tasks when he could have been learning More Powerfull Tools
04:06.06Ralithyou were put through that in college? O.o
04:07.32starseekernods
04:07.49starseekerkind of a "computer 101" course to make sure people could do what was needed
04:08.01starseekerthe scariest thing is a LOT of them actually seemed to need it
04:09.35starseekerto be fair, 1998 was only 3 years after Win95 so desktop penetration wasn't as high
04:10.16starseekerNo matter. Ancient history now
04:10.16Ralithyeah, but it's not the college's job to stop people from applying to high-level courses they don't have the background for
04:10.27Ralithand I don't think office is exactly necessary CS background.
04:10.35starseekerNo, no - this wasn't for CS
04:10.39Ralithoh, ok.
04:10.42starseekerit was for the general college population
04:11.07starseekerNow LaTeX, that I could have gotten into :-)
04:11.22RalithLaTeX is awesome.
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14:57.51prasad_1netsplitz
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15:17.06``Erikheh, starseeker, I had a couple classes where pretty much every assignment was in a different language, the primer to each language was "you can download it from X or log into the cs server and it's this command"
15:18.17``ErikAI and theory of computation o.O theory devolved into just using scheme for everything, though
15:18.28``Erikthough markov chains were in c++
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15:32.08andrecastelomorning everyone :D
16:08.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32617 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Add support for -regex and -iregex to search. Using REG_EXTENDED at the moment - if there is a need support can be added later for other options.
17:10.40*** join/#brlcad prokoudine (n=avp@beacon.altlinux.ru)
17:10.47prokoudinehi
17:10.57prokoudinei'm writing a small report on gsoc this year
17:11.11prokoudineare all of your projects completed successfully?
17:13.04``ErikI believe all were decided to be adequately successful
17:33.11prokoudineadequately? :)
17:34.51prokoudineanyway, thanks :)
17:43.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32618 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/java/stractNet/src/stractNet/messaging/tests/MSTest02.java: Modified Test for efficiency.
18:02.28brlcadhowdy prokoudine
18:02.55brlcadlemme know if you have any specific questions
18:03.17brlcadi'm writing a report specific to our students as well, but itll be a week or two
18:50.01brlcad``Erik: probably will be another week or two before sorting things out, but I signed you up on the summit wiki already
18:51.11brlcadflights are about 350 right now, so it should be pretty easy -- probably arriving on the 24th (fri)) and returning the 27th (mon), paying for an extra day stay for the room (which we have to share, if you didn't know..)
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19:01.06brlcadstarseeker: you're leaking memory
19:01.18brlcadgotta free after a regcomp  (run valgrind)
19:04.44starseekerwhoops  sorry
19:10.35starseekerwas getting too used to passing pointers to everything ;-)
19:19.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32619 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/search.c: Oops - need to regfree after regcomp (thanks Sean)
19:25.13CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32620 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: even though it was implemented after separately, the regex options shouldn't be a separate line item since the proceeding line covers it. the emphasis on the effort belongs in a summary paragraph for that one
19:25.25starseekerk
19:25.48brlcadif (rv != 0) {  <-- doesn't look right
19:26.17starseekerThat's from NetBSD
19:26.50brlcadrather, it looks alright, but then the else case is fishy
19:27.58starseekerelse case?
19:27.59brlcadnamely, I don't recall but do you have to regfree if regcomp fails
19:28.07starseekeroh
19:28.19starseekerum
19:28.32starseekerNetBSD calls regerror
19:28.33brlcadquick read looks like it might be okay, but should verify
19:28.45starseekerlooks to see if regerror frees
19:30.08brlcadi think it just prints an error message based on the code
19:30.27starseekeragreed
19:30.55starseekerweird
19:31.14starseekerso regcomp must not assign anything until it succeeds internally?
19:31.27brlcadi don't know
19:31.29brlcadi was asking :)
19:31.38starseekeris looking at regcomp now ;-)
19:31.55brlcadjust don't want it to crash if the regcomp fails
19:33.26starseekerOh, here it is - if p->error != 0 it does regfree
19:33.29starseekercool
19:33.46starseekerremoves regfree from the error case...
19:35.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32621 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/search.c: Don't need regfree in error case - libregex is polite and frees the memory itself in an error situation.
19:35.42starseekerthere we go :-)
19:36.34starseekerbrlcad: Bob and I were plotting to include fnmatch in libbu and make it work on Windows - is that OK?
19:36.58starseekeror rather, bu_fnmatch :-)
19:46.37starseekerwill commit so Bob can test on Windows quick before he's outta here - I'll make it all one commit so it's an easy revert if you don't like it brlcad
19:48.24brlcadso windows doesn't have fnmatch?
19:48.32starseekernope
19:48.38starseekerBob already tried
19:49.32starseekercan't remember how to set karma or he'd ding Windows another one
19:49.42louipcwindows--
19:50.08brlcadI don't have a problem with a bu_fnmatch though I might suggest a different name to be consistent with other bu routines
19:50.23starseekerOK :-)
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19:50.53starseekerlet me get Bob compiling quick... brb
19:51.26brlcadbu_path_match() maybe or a simple bu_glob()
19:52.28louipcibot: karma windows
19:52.28ibotwindows has karma of -2
19:52.30brlcadbu_pattern_match
19:52.58brlcadwith just a pattern and string argument (unless the flags are *really* *really* needed for some reason
19:58.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32622 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Add fnmatch to libbu as a first step towards supporting the find based search code in Windows.
20:01.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32623 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/fnmatch.c: reorder so that declarations are not necessary
20:02.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32624 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/search.c: We don't really need stdbool.h here, and Windows doesn't like it.
20:05.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32625 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/fnmatch.c: header/footer/indent cleanup, always need common.h before any system headers.
20:06.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32626 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: document the new argv functions testing out the migration of API documentation from source files to the public header files.
20:12.43prasad_1http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26641652/
20:15.13brlcadlooks forward to them actually smashing things together at 100% power, not just flipping on the power switch
20:17.37``Erikwiggles his toes
20:20.31prasad_1first contact or half life
20:20.37prasad_1i hope for the former
20:23.11brlcadi mean damn, if you're gonna get killed, a supercollider singularity would be one of the best ways
20:24.02brlcadevery atom accelerating away at the speed of light.  no thought, no pain, you would just instantly cease to exist
20:27.01Ralithgood call
20:28.59archivist_ubwhos going to write up the Darwin award
20:33.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32627 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (search.c search.h): Changed include order for windows. Fixed a few typos.
20:35.11``ErikI d'no, the masses sound far too tiny to do anything like that
20:35.52``Erikeven tidal effects would diminish awfully quickly if it were to go supermassive, and it wouldn't have the mass to sustain it o.O
20:36.39``Erikwhat was it that article a few days ago said, the energy of an aircraft carrier moving at 60kph?
20:37.48prasad_1funnelled through the area of your fingernail
20:37.53``Erikyeah
20:37.59prasad_1er the size of your fingernail
20:38.02prasad_1;)
20:42.04``Erikhrm, 7 trillion electron volts, 1.1215*10^-6 joules... o.O I must be missing something here
20:44.38``Erikah, each particle is at 7teV, it's the entire beam that accounts for all that energy
21:24.02``Erikrolls up a magazine and beats starseeker for a bit
21:24.13starseekerjust for kicks?
21:24.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r32628 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/Makefile.am: add missing backslash, was producing broken makefile
21:24.36starseekerAh
21:28.19``Erikwow,  my arm is sore... closest to a magazine I could find was a siggraph transaction book, those are heavy
21:28.32``ErikI should go kick his ass some more for making my arm sore
21:29.38starseekerHeh - you'll need more mass, you're not much more than a rounding error relatively speaking ;-)
21:48.54``Erikheh, I used to spar with a dude who was close to 300 pounds of muscle back in 'the day', picked him up and bounce dhim off his ass one day... and I was a lot smaller back then  :D don't misunderestimate (bushism!) the little wirey guy
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22:57.31``Erik<-- tries to figure out why italian would have a single word that translates to "to suck to me"
22:59.47Ralithlol
23:02.06``Erikhttp://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/succhiarmi  teh awesomez
23:44.16Ralithnice
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080911

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080911

00:47.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32629 10/brlcad/trunk/ (35 files in 17 dirs):
00:47.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: deprecate the use of %S as a struct bu_vls format specifier, now using %V
00:47.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: instead. update all instances from the old to the new and document the
00:47.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: functions that parsed them (structparse and logging). run-time and regression
00:47.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: tested successfully, but there are nasty verbose warnings that should get
00:47.41CIA-4BRL-CAD: printed if any were missed. the reason this change was made was because libc
00:47.43CIA-4BRL-CAD: now uses %S for wchar_t strings as an alias for %ls.
01:17.12*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
01:18.29*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet-45-219.dorm.utexas.edu)
01:44.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32630 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (bu_tcl.c parse.c): jeez, surprisingly still passed all testing, but there were several cases missed for the %S -> %V conversion
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14:05.51ciaooociaooo
14:05.58ciaoooeiii ce nessunooo?
14:06.07ciaoooprontooo
14:06.11ciaoooeiiii
14:17.58prasad_1ciaoo
14:31.51Axman6strange guy
14:33.00brlcadcgi:irc .. I wouldn't expect any less ;)
14:33.13brlcads/less/more/ :)
14:45.00prokoudinebrlcad: thank you
14:45.06prokoudinebrlcad: I'll let you know :)
14:45.08brlcadprokoudine: hm?
14:45.27prokoudine-brlcad- howdy prokoudine
14:45.27prokoudine>brlcad< lemme know if you have any specific questions
14:45.27prokoudine<PROTECTED>
14:45.33brlcadahh, right
14:46.45brlcadprokoudine: who are you with?
14:46.49brlcadinkscape?
14:47.35brlcadnotes that I'm planning on using the tango icons for our new GUI
14:49.15prokoudinebrlcad: in gsoc - with hugin/panotools and audacity
14:49.34prokoudinebrlcad: but outside gsoc I'm with just everybody :)
14:50.07prokoudinewas backup admin for scribus last year too
15:16.29``Erik*burp*
15:18.54brlcadprokoudine: ah, alrighty then -- good to know
15:19.27brlcadso you're writing up a report of all projects? lots of projects? just a small handful?  where do the brl-cad students come into play?
15:35.39prasad_1has anyone used any other alternatives to the printf formatting syntax (e.g: %d, etc.) ? .NET?
15:36.25brlcadyou mean like C++ stream formatting?
15:42.21prasad_1no
15:42.34prasad_1token replacement syntax
15:42.52prasad_1.NET has an alternative syntax
15:43.02prasad_1wondering what other schemes are out there
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17:13.58CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32634 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/libged/libged.vcproj: Added search.c
17:13.58CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32633 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/libbu/libbu.vcproj: Added fnmatch.c
17:15.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32635 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/adc.c: Replaced atof with sscanf
17:15.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32636 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Reworked the grid and rect functionality into ged_grid and ged_rect.
17:15.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32632 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/fnmatch.c: Needs bu.h
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17:32.24Niktyhi guys!!!!!!!!
17:32.58Niktyi installed brlcad from ports (freebsd) but /usr/local/brlcad/bin/mged doesn't start!!!!!!!
17:33.02Niktyhelp :)
17:33.05Niktypls
17:35.30*** join/#brlcad Nikty (n=nicholas@89.163.117.94)
17:36.55Niktyhelp with starting mges pls :)
17:36.59Nikty(mged
17:37.01Nikty*mged
17:41.45starseekerwhat's the error?
17:41.49Niktyno error
17:42.08starseeker``Erik is our BSD guy
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17:42.24starseeker``Erik, know if the port is in workign order atm?
17:42.43Nikty``Erik: hi, /usr/local/brlcad/bin/mged doesn't start
18:29.44``Erikum, is that out of ports?
18:29.50``Erik(what does it do?)
18:30.02``Erikthe port SHOULD be working on everything but -current
18:40.01starseekerNikty:  Try mged -c and see what happens
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19:25.58prasad_has anyone used code::blocks?
19:40.17``Eriknot I, computers are against my religion
20:42.15starseekerprods CiA
20:42.24starseekerprods CIA rather
20:42.43alex_jonikicks CIA-4
20:42.58alex_jonidoesn't work..
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21:53.01brlcadprasad_: not I, graphical IDEs are against my religion
21:56.13prasad_years of vs2005 + visual assist x + incredibuild + perforce
21:56.16prasad_can't go back
21:58.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32639 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (search.c search.h): ws, indent, header fixes
21:59.15brlcad"go back" .. you never went there
22:00.06louipcI used to be a fan of the windows and the guis and stuff but I saw the way and was transformed
22:00.41louipcthat's why I think mged -c should be the standard :D
22:00.49brlcademacs is all ye know and all ye need to know, my son
22:06.56louipcemacs-ged?
22:08.13CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32638 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tcl/generic/tclIO.c: Added check for exceeding max int.
22:13.08brlcadlouipc: an mged major mode would be awesome :)
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22:50.05``Erikyeh, in the mid 90's, I thought the big weakness of leenewx was that it lacked ide's like msvc and borland
22:50.10``ErikI learned better
22:52.21prasad_go back to pico :o
22:53.18``Erikheh, I did pico briefly... then joe... then vim... :D
22:53.26``Erikultraedit32 on windows for a bit
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080912

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080912

00:06.42*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
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01:18.29PrezKennedyi use vim/jedit
01:25.40``Erik.de, jlo?
01:26.08``Erikis have her dur grace linked up to a deleware cx?
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03:40.53yukonbobhello, cadheads
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08:47.54brlcad``Erik: he's at the beach
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11:59.47starseekeris starting to get the hang of glibc's fnmatch code a bit better
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14:07.52mafmhallo
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14:09.42``Erikoi
14:10.53brlcadugh, 130 hour build time..
14:11.00mafmbrlcad: re:argc for commands: maybe I missed some of them
14:11.14mafmI think that one that starseeker commited recently had the same problem
14:11.34brlcadmafm: you missed a bunch of them iirc :)
14:11.54brlcadstarseeker's not using the ged interface just yet contrary to the function name
14:11.59mafmuhm, then maybe was a regex too restrictive
14:12.02brlcadusing the wdb interface
14:16.29mafmhmm
14:16.34mafmso do you want me to fix the rest?
14:24.04brlcadi already did
14:24.15brlcadthat same day, iirc even
14:24.39brlcadahh, cia is down... dagnabit
14:25.33mafmoh
14:30.04mafmI saw a bit of activity in the mail lately
14:35.28yukonbob_brlcad: I'd change that hard-coded value to something like sizeof(int)
14:35.34yukonbob_it's not portable.
14:35.43yukonbob_^--in Tcl patch
14:41.01mafmso, any news lately? I took a little break with a friend for the last week, I still have a lot of mail to read
14:41.37brlcadyukonbob_: i know .. it's not really a proper fix (wasn't intended to be really) .. just hopefully enough to provoke them to fix it properly
14:42.29brlcadthe bigger issue is really prevalent throughout the API .. there are unqualified ints used everywhere that can overflow in many/most of the functions that aren't being checked
14:42.30yukonbob_is also a bit surprised Tcl is using malloc, and not some tcl_malloc(), where a test for this type of thing could be inserted once, and fix all cases...
14:42.51brlcadtcl does have their own wrapper, but it doesn't check
14:43.08yukonbob_that's where the fix should be, by my one-minute evaluation...
14:43.47yukonbob_tct will probably come to same conclusion themselves, though, unless I'm just wrong.
14:43.58brlcadwe'd still be stuck at it failing on commands that exceed 1073741823
14:44.21brlcadthe patch pushes it all the way up to 2147483647 before it'll fail
14:44.44brlcadthere's a length = offset * 2 that'll overflow it half-way
14:44.53yukonbob_would have to look harder to completely understand; trusts brlcad
14:45.17yukonbob_would the "test for completeness of command" help wrt parsing the db?
14:45.52yukonbob_is also working to getting itcl up/running with his -current OS, and Tcl 8.5.4, then back on the brl-cad wagon ;)
14:46.08brlcadalso, by the time it's to tcl's wrapper, it's an unsigned int (like ours in libbu) .. so you lose the fact that it overflowed
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15:01.50yukonbob_[info complete $x] is what I was thinking of, perhaps allowing one to parse the db in smaller chunks.
15:01.55yukonbob_brlcad: --^
15:04.58yukonbob_heads to work.
15:24.00brlcadyukonbob_: brlcad/src/conv/asc2g.c if you want to look at improving the converter further :-)
15:24.20brlcadnot sure what info complete would translate to on Tcl's C API
15:24.34brlcadright now, we just call Tcl_EvalFile iirc
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15:43.18mafmgreat, my machine at work is borked
15:43.19mafm:)
15:44.55brlcadexcellent
15:45.18mafmI love when things run smoothly :P
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17:08.41``Erikhttp://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html
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17:18.57mafmheh
17:19.23mafmLHC news are having a big impact
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18:45.37starseekerbrlcad:  It looks like including the collate features of GNU's fnmatch will mean including some locale code too - is it worth it?
19:13.42starseekergrowls in annoyance and starts re-thinking plan B, adding a few features to the BSD version
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22:39.47brlcadstarseeker: nope
22:40.03brlcadjust rip that part out?
22:40.09starseekerIt'
22:40.12``Eriko.O
22:40.16starseekers a bit tricky
22:40.21starseekerhang on, take a look:
22:41.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32641 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/fnmatch.c: Start of an implementation of character classes.
22:42.06starseekerI've got a little more debugging to do, but I think I'm getting close.
22:47.01starseeker"and an ominous silence descended over IRC" ;-)
22:53.27starseekerdecides to head home before he gets in any more trouble :-{
22:53.36brlcadheh
22:53.39starseekerhow'd it get to be 7 already??
22:53.47brlcadyeah..
22:54.47starseekerbrlcad:  if we opt out of the collate feature, I don't think it's too much difference between adding to the working one and stripping out the unneeded stuff from the other one
22:54.55brlcadwhat is the collate feature?
22:55.23starseekerAs near as I can tell, it's some kind of ordering awareness based on locale information
22:55.51brlcadthere is no geoemtry locale, so that doesn't seem to be anything of use regardless
22:55.56brlcadyou'd just rip that out if you did use it
22:56.11starseekernods
22:56.20brlcadsort of like -atime
22:56.30starseekerIt might be things like "a comes before z" though - that's what I'm not sure of yet
22:56.57brlcadeither way, sounds like a gnu extension
22:57.06starseekerI'm pretty close to getting the character classes working, which I remember you missing
22:57.33brlcadthe point isn't to get all features, it's to get whatever makes most sense for geometry processing
22:57.53brlcadwhich is going to be all ascii-based
22:58.00brlcadstandard posix globbing
22:58.26starseekerHere's where it pops up on opengroup:  http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/000095399/basedefs/xbd_chap09.html#tag_09_03_05
23:00.28starseekerI got a simple test case of [[:digit:]] to work, so now it's just a question of making sure I understand how its used and making sure what I've got in there has the correct behaviors
23:02.16starseekerI guess it's a sign of coding immaturity but I found it much more straightforward to add to the BSD code than ripping stuff out of the GNU code :-/
23:02.29brlcad<PROTECTED>
23:02.40brlcadnever used collating
23:03.08brlcadnot sure equivalence classes are useful to us, unless it's easy to implement
23:03.33starseekerUnless I'm very much mistaken, it's quite hard to implement - I think it depends on locale support in some fashion.
23:04.00brlcadcollating actually sounds rather useful, but I don't see anyone getting that advanced
23:04.10starseekernods
23:04.12brlcadit's a way to match substrings
23:04.32starseekerI was thinking if anyone got that advanced regex could step in
23:05.49brlcadlooks like bsd doesn't support/implement it
23:05.55starseekernope
23:06.12brlcadyeah, forget about it
23:06.38starseekerok.  If someone specifically requests we can do an estimate of the cost/benefit ratio, but I'm thinking it's pretty high
23:07.03starseekerwould probably mean including locale to do it portably
23:07.05brlcadyeah, i don't see the need
23:07.11brlcadyou could just use a regex, even easier
23:07.18starseekernods
23:08.14starseekerNow I just need to hunt up some advanced glob test cases using :digit: and friends, but after I get home :-)
23:08.21starseekerreally leaves, bbl
23:09.04brlcadand ranges
23:09.13brlcadfind . -name [0-9]*
23:09.29starseekeractually, that should work
23:09.55brlcadfind . -name [x-z]*
23:10.27starseekerwill test, but I think it does have at least basic ranges already
23:10.31brlcadfind . -name [a-zA-Z_][a-zA-Z0-9_-]*
23:10.48starseekerdunno about that one ;-)
23:10.53starseekerok, later all!
23:11.12brlcadcya
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080913

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080913

00:29.38``Erikwrt find
00:29.53``Erikhow do the classes effect the tcl interpreter
00:30.19``Eriktcl's eval is [blah], right? o.O do the classes have to be quoted or escaped?
00:30.36``Erikor should find override the tcl interpreter?
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00:36.15starseeker``Erik:  The eventual idea is to move the globbing below the command line and let the individual commands decide how to handle it
00:36.55starseekermost will just call glob straight away, but those who plan to work with it themselves (a.l.a. search/find) will handle it themselves without the interpreter being "smart" for them.
00:37.15starseekerthat's a bit of a job, but now with the libged stuff is the logical time to do it
00:37.42starseekersees some rather long and mundane coding coming at him...
00:49.41brlcadgets hungry
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01:15.56``Erikthat seems.. irregular
01:16.21``Erikif tcl expressions are viable, I'd expect them to be viable on any command... what if I want to generate the regex using tcl?
01:25.44starseeker``Erik:  It's a case of conflicting expectations - I expect the find/search command to take a regex string without tcl bothering it
01:30.25``Erikwell, I love playing devils advocate :D
01:30.42``Erikmy mindset is that of a linguist, so regularity is king
01:31.12``Erikrocks out to mc 900' jesus, punker's on a roll o.O
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03:34.00yukonbob_is "Punker's on a Roll" the name of the album? /me can recommend MC 900' Jesus' "One Step Ahead of the Spider" as an awesome album
03:48.27yukonbob_~svn
03:48.28ibotSubversion (aka SVN) is version control software that aims to be a better CVS than CVS. See http://subversion.tigris.org/.
03:48.46yukonbob_~co
03:48.47ibotwell, co is Colombia
03:48.58yukonbob_~lart stupid answers
03:48.58ibotbeats stupid answers severely about the head and shoulders with a rubber chicken
03:49.22yukonbob_~checkout
04:02.09starseekercannot fathom how mortals are supposed to set up snort on Gentoo...
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05:13.35yukonbobhello, starseeker
08:07.00brlcad~cadsvn
08:07.01ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
08:10.42brlcad~botmail for mafm ... please don't forget to upload your code
10:12.44``Erikyukon: punker is punkrockgirl, my wench... she was dj'ing last night
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10:45.00Nikty1hi =)
10:45.08Nikty1so, bsd needs help)
10:46.10Nikty1<PROTECTED>
10:46.12Nikty1:(
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10:59.32``Erikyeah, what does it do? O.o
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15:55.53starseekeryukonbob:  howdy :-)
15:57.47Axman6heh, i love the lag in this channel
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16:01.37starseekerunlike brlcad, I need to sleep on occasion ;-)
16:09.55Axman6yeah, that man has epic uptime
16:10.06alex_jonisleep is overrated
16:10.41archivist_ubgets in the way of play
16:12.04Axman6yeah, it's only mildly essential
16:15.06alex_joniyou only die after 10 days without sleep
16:22.17Axman6i was going to ask how you knew that... then remembered where BRL-CAD comes from
16:23.52alex_joniwell.. I have very little connection to BRL-CAL
16:23.59alex_jonibut I do watch House M.D. a lot :P
17:18.38yukonbobAxman6: What lag are you talking about?
18:38.15brlcadthe 10 days "rumor" about dying from lack of sleep has been propagating for years, it was an isolated single sample study
18:38.45brlcadthe guy in the study suffered liver and kidney failure iirc
18:39.04brlcadothers have gone farther, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep#Longest_period_without_sleep
18:41.26alex_joniwhee. fun, think of all the coding one could do in 33 years without sleep :D
18:41.35brlcadI know!
18:41.42brlcadwishes..
18:48.43brlcadAxman6: for what it's worth, military training doctrine says you only need about 4 hours a day
18:49.10brlcadand that's supposedly to be indefinitely sustainable, per studies done through the decades
23:38.16brlcadopens his last ABA
23:38.41brlcad~ww
23:38.42ibotThanks for wasting our time yet again by telling us "ww"
23:44.05yukonbobbrlcad: have there been issues w/ tcl85 and blt in the BRL-CAD builds?
23:44.15yukonbobguesses "no", but hasn't been following closely
23:44.20brlcadnope
23:55.24yukonbobnods
23:55.53yukonbob<-- working (in a way) to get NetBSD -current and Tcl 8.5.x (and bits) ready for BRL-CAD
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080914

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080914

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01:04.14brlcadyukonbob: awesome
01:04.27brlcadlet me know when it's all in, that'll be news-worthy
01:15.27Axman6brlcad: is the 4 hours sleep supposed to make you really really cranky, so you want to kill people more?
01:15.44Axman6because, i know i'd want to kill a lot of people if i only got 4 hours sleep a night
01:16.59Ralithmyself, I'd just want to get some more sleep.
01:18.04brlcadAxman6: heh, mebbie .. though I don't think I get too cranky
01:20.57Axman6i'm oretty sure if it was me, people would be dying all the time.
01:21.07Axman6i need my sleep pretty bad. but i am a uni student..
01:21.13Axman6pretty even
01:22.47brlcadfinally goes to see darkknight
01:23.05Ralithenjoy
01:23.14Axman6like right now, i've had like 7 hours, and i could easily eat someone's face for talking too loud
01:42.23louipchuh
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05:14.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32643 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/fnmatch.c: Much closer to a working character class, but still needs more testing so leave in debug bu_log for now.
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19:10.17mafmhi
19:17.29mafmbrlcad: thanks about the code, I came for that reason (among others) but not sure if I'll be able to do it before this computer at the lab dies :)
19:48.20mafmok, copied... let's see if I get to do this from home :)
19:48.23mafmsee you
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22:46.15mafmhi
23:38.56mafmslowy svn, several hours to get the diff done :)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080915

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080915

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02:19.43mafmcode submitted!
02:19.46mafmnight
03:52.22starseeker_pokes around for standards on technical drawing layouts...
03:52.58Ralithwonders what starseeker_ is working on
03:53.51starseeker_nothing, as yet
03:54.07starseeker_Ah, here we go... http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_tc_browse.htm?commid=46022
03:54.14Ralithwonders what starseeker_ is thinking about
03:54.53starseeker_If there's any standard for blueprint layouts
03:55.18starseeker_likes pretty pictures
03:55.24Ralithagrees
03:55.47starseeker_That's one boatload of documentation on the subject though :-(
03:56.12Raliththere's a lot of situations to cover
03:57.00starseeker_nods
03:57.23starseeker_In reality I need to keep working on find/search, so no pretty pictures for a while
03:58.44Ralithit would be pretty cool for brl-cad to be able to produce drawings
03:59.05starseeker_many have thought so, no one has put forth the effort ;-)
03:59.49Ralithprobably something to do with how there's a lot of situations to cover.
04:00.06starseeker_partially that, partially a matter of other priorities
04:00.26Ralithwell, yeah
04:00.42Ralithbut the easier it is, the more likely some random person shows up to do it for SoC, or something
04:00.51starseeker_and partially how the heck to get ahold of all the friggin docs...
04:00.58starseeker_true
04:01.58Ralithyeah, having to actually buy the docs doesn't help, I imagine
04:02.16starseeker_you imagine correctly
04:14.40yukonbobevening, cadheads
04:33.38louipcstarseeker_: what kind of standards are you looking for?
04:33.58starseeker_layout, required information, formatting, etc.
04:34.48louipclike third-angle projection vs first-angle projection, ...
04:36.28louipcI wouldn't say you need iso specs to start off though hehe
04:37.52louipclots of info on the net and/or library about drafting 'standards'
04:45.46Ralithlouipc: when it comes to writing a software implementation for a CAD suite, I think it's pretty important to strictly follow the formal standards.
04:47.47louipcwell it should be flexible
04:48.05Ralith?
04:48.14Ralithwhat does that mean
04:48.24louipcthere's more than one standard
04:50.13RalithI think the ISO standards are probably appropriate.
04:52.27louipcANSI ;)
04:53.32RalithI > A
04:53.52louipcare you european or something? :P
04:54.34dtidrowM$ proved that standards can be bought
04:54.41louipchaha
04:54.56louipcsoftware is best when it's flexible anyways
04:55.16dtidrowsee the ooxml debacle
04:59.30Ralithdtidrow: but nobody has a reason to buy these ones :P
08:37.43b0efreally sad iso has lost all integrity
08:38.04b0efand credibility
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12:31.35mafmhello
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15:03.25starseekerbrlcad:  OK, all of your test cases seem to work, although I'm a little fuzzy on the last one - I'll have to check what the "_" is supposed to do
15:07.00starseekerAlso, something like search -name [0-9][a-z] without the "*" on the end fails unless I set glob_compat_mode to 0 - it seems like tcl is expanding that for some reason.  Even then, with glob_compat_mode at 0 I have to escape the square brackets.  Ugh.
15:07.54starseekeris more motivated than ever to keep TCL out of command pre-processing unless the command asks for it
15:13.58starseekerHmm, looks like search . -name [[:upper:]][[:digit:]]* doesn't work...
15:14.47starseekerwonders if it should
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16:51.50starseekerhrm.  Does on Mac's find
16:52.06starseekergrumbles and wanders back into the fnmatch source code...
16:58.03starseekerwait, it does work
16:58.07starseekerblinks
16:58.57starseekerfriggin tcl shell...
17:10.19mafmhi starseeker
17:10.20mafm:)
17:10.26mafmthis channel is pretty quiet lately
17:11.43starseekermafm:  Howdy :-)
17:11.48starseekeryes, quiet indeed
17:20.22mafmI need more holidays, but not bad :)
18:17.19starseekerYay, maxdepth and mindepth work :-)
18:49.59starseekerkicks CIA
19:37.12starseekerempty works
19:39.04starseekerbrlcad:  Do you want an "ls" option for BRL-CAD's search or is that better handled with the -exec option?
19:56.51starseekerand now iname works :-)
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22:46.35starseekerAnd a path command
22:46.38starseekerer path option
22:46.54starseekerbrlcad:  regarding prune, can't that be handled by a combination of -not and -path?
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22:59.51brlcadcatches up
23:00.30brlcadstarseeker: [] are special to tcl, they are like backticks
23:01.38brlcaddrat, mafm left
23:02.09brlcadstarseeker: ls is definitely better handled via exec
23:02.25brlcadand hm, -path seems out of place
23:03.11brlcadi mean i see the point, but especially for -not -path, that's not really different than -not -name
23:04.19brlcadI use that all the time to prune subtrees on a find search since it won't recurse into something that matches
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080916

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080916

00:08.50brlcad~seen calito
00:08.59ibotbrlcad: i haven't seen 'calito'
00:10.51starseekerbrlcad:  I've got name just looking at the object name, and path looking at the whole path string
00:11.10brlcadyes, and? :)
00:11.27starseekerdoesn't that mean path isn't out of place?
00:11.29brlcadlike I said, I see the point .. but it's somewhat redundant
00:11.48starseeker-not -name and -not -path will do different things...
00:11.56starseekerwell, it's easy enough to nuke
00:13.00starseekerUnless you know of any other features needed, it may be time to turn the focus to -exec
00:15.01brlcadsomething about -empty isn't sitting well with me
00:15.05brlcadit's not really very general
00:15.30brlcadbut I can't think of why the general case would be needed atm or what exactly is so bothersome
00:15.41starseekernods
00:15.54starseekerI think it actually addresses a bug request previously met with a tcl script
00:16.26brlcadit's fine, I mean find has it too
00:16.33brlcadit's just how it relates to primitives I think
00:16.39brlcadwhat is an empty primitive
00:16.44starseeker:-)
00:17.10starseekergot me
00:17.16brlcadactually somewhat well-defined for sketch, extrude, ebm, and dsp
00:17.29brlcadkinda
00:17.51starseekeryou mean find sketch without data, or extrude without sketch, etc.?
00:17.55brlcadright
00:17.59brlcadmaybe just always returns false
00:18.13starseekerI think that's what i do now
00:18.21brlcadreally?
00:18.28brlcadi thought you just checked if tree == null
00:18.35starseekeryeah
00:18.44brlcadthen it'd always return true ;)
00:18.52starseekeroh, you mean return false regardless of the -not option?
00:19.01brlcadhm? no
00:19.21starseekerright now, I check if the DIR_COMB flag is set before even trying to look for a tree
00:19.26starseekerso primitives always get ignored
00:19.53brlcadwhat does that mean wrt true/false?
00:20.03starseekerif primitive, false
00:20.12starseekerif combination with tree, false
00:20.14brlcadhm, oki
00:20.18starseekerif combination without tree, true
00:20.43starseekerso a -not -empty spews back a lot of primitives too - you need to add a -type comb to filter them out
00:21.05brlcadsure
00:21.31starseekerThat's what tutorials are good for :-)
00:21.48brlcadwhat types did you end up implementing?
00:21.53starseekernot that you need one, but for the rest of us mortals out here :-)
00:21.53brlcadfor -type
00:22.16starseekererm... - all the primitive types, plus combination and region
00:22.42brlcad-type region ?
00:23.02brlcadand -type combination or something else?
00:23.03starseekeryes -type r or -type region get you the same thing
00:23.07starseekeryep
00:23.10brlcadk
00:23.18starseeker-type comb and -type combination
00:23.25brlcad-type c ?
00:23.27brlcad:)
00:23.30starseekerprobably should
00:23.49starseekersaves on typing
00:23.55starseekerfires up vim...
00:25.39brlcadthere needs to be a way to get a list of objects at all four levels
00:25.55brlcadyou've got at least two (region, primitives)
00:26.06brlcadhow can the user get the other two?
00:26.12starseekercombination and assembly?
00:26.33brlcadcombination == !primitive
00:26.44starseekerright
00:26.54brlcadwhich would be another useful one to have
00:27.10starseeker-type comb doesn't do it?
00:27.11brlcad-type primitive|prim|p
00:27.30starseekeroh, a general primitive type match?
00:27.36brlcad-type comb gets everything that's not a primitive, that's too much
00:27.43brlcadthat's three levels
00:28.06starseekeractually, comb doesn't get regions
00:28.14starseekerat least not the way I've got it set up
00:28.24brlcadhm, that's no good :)
00:28.33brlcadregions are combinations
00:29.16starseekerright, but I was assuming at the user level if they want the set of all combinations they can do -type comb -and -type reg
00:29.37brlcadi mean you could add -type assembly|a|group|g to get the topmost level
00:29.58brlcadyeah, no .. don't do that
00:30.05brlcadit starts screwing with the terminology
00:31.11brlcadall the other commands and docs at least try to keep it clear that regions are combinations,
00:31.20brlcadI would entirely expect a -type option to return them
00:31.31starseekerok
00:32.00brlcadunless you named them nrc's or something, but then it's still ambiguous as to what you do about the third level (combinations below the region level)
00:32.18starseekerI'll switch it - it's easy enough to do -type comb -not -type reg
00:32.58starseekerawareness of where combinations are relative to regions is something else again
00:33.00brlcadhm, won't that get levels 1 and 3
00:33.09brlcador just 1?
00:33.17brlcadthere's a good case for either
00:33.38starseekerwould get you 1 and 3
00:34.05starseekeranything else requires awareness of position in tree depth relative to a region, and right now I don't have that
00:34.29brlcadk
00:34.57brlcadactually if you add a -type assembly|a option, you probably don't need the latter for level 3
00:35.26brlcadsince you can get level three with a double search once you have exec
00:35.40starseekerright - combinations that are not assemblies would have to be the other group
00:36.00brlcadoh, right .. just use the boolean
00:36.09brlcaddont' even need a double search
00:36.39starseeker-type comb -not -type region -not -type assembly
00:36.42brlcadi was thinking something like: search . -type r -exec search {} -not -type p
00:36.58starseekerthat would work too, once exec is running
00:37.27starseekerchecking for assembly will take a bit of logic, but I think I've got it in namegen somewhere
00:37.56starseekerlet me fix combinations to report regions.
00:38.44brlcadalso should work,  -not -type a -not -type r -not -type p
00:40.49starseekerbrlcad:  Know what happened to CIA?
00:43.46starseekerOK.  So we can get all primitives with search -not -type comb
00:43.48brlcadkicks CIA-4
00:43.48CIA-4ow
00:44.05starseekerdon't tell me my commit didn't go through...
00:44.10brlcadit did
00:44.17brlcadyou're not on the commits list?
00:44.34starseekerGet all regions with search -type reg
00:45.04starseekerGet all combinations above and below the region level with search -type comb ! -type reg
00:45.13starseekerYep, assembly will do it
00:45.19starseekerhunts up namegen...
00:47.13*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
00:47.34starseekerbrlcad: will db_functree give me everything below the tree if I supply it a dp, or do I need to walk the tree?
00:48.37brlcadwhat do you mean?
00:49.05brlcadit will call the comb or prim callback
00:51.22starseekerright, but for an assembly check I need to know if any of the combinations below the target combination are regions
00:53.05brlcadhm, i've implemented that before somewhere .....
00:53.38brlcadouch.. lap top hot
00:53.57brlcadimporting half a million points into the point primitive is taking .. a while
00:55.06starseekerow
00:55.20starseekerIO limited, or just lack of optimization?
00:55.53brlcadnot i/o
00:56.31brlcadprobably a non-linear cost in there somewhere
00:59.27brlcadmm, actually, looks like it's maybe just horribly inefficient command-line processing
01:04.09brlcadheh, glob_compat_mode expansion
01:06.30starseeker~lart glob_compat_mode expasion
01:06.30ibotstrangles glob_compat_mode expasion with a 9-pole serial cable
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01:08.08brlcadahh, and that'd be the N^2
01:08.30brlcadmy input point data set is one point per line
01:09.18brlcadit's using the "i need more" mode in mged for the 'in' command
01:09.39brlcadso then for every point, it scans the entire previous resulting input thusfar for possible expansion
01:09.54brlcadinstead of just the portion being added
01:10.01brlcadbecause of where that check actually occurs
01:11.08brlcadso after about a half-hour, it's not even halfway done
01:12.42brlcadtries without globbing and without incremental command input
01:13.03starseekerowowow
01:26.28brlcad298 registered mged commands and only 239 listed through the help system
01:26.49brlcadthat sucks
01:27.01brlcad59 with absolutely no documentation
01:27.56brlcadwants to get mged's total command count down to less than 200
01:28.45brlcadeventually getting to less than 100
01:29.32starseekerwell, search may help a bit there
01:30.20brlcada little bit
01:31.15brlcadwow, some commands have help, exist, and are *not* registered
01:31.30RalithO.o
01:31.31brlcadgets the total "real" command count
01:33.40brlcad324 commands total
01:34.49starseekerTHINKS he has an assembly type check
01:34.51brlcadso 85 are undocumented
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01:37.42starseekercommits
01:38.58starseekerThat was suspiciously easy
01:39.57starseekerbrlcad:  Ok, modulo bugs, check
01:42.59starseekerbrlcad:  Does the command count reduction mean I get to merge the sed and oed commands? :-)
01:44.01starseekerneeds to head home now
01:44.51brlcadthey're a prime candidate
01:53.51brlcadAaaaaannnnd.. kerrash
01:53.58brlcadpnts_in failure
01:57.13starseekerow
02:03.58starseekeryou're laptop is going to go on strike ;-)
02:04.01starseekerer your
02:04.08starseekerslaps self awake
02:23.02brlcadponders a workout now that he knows he's not got to wake up so early
02:24.53brlcad~starseeker++
03:21.48prasad_ahh still at work
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10:53.41mafmhi
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16:09.02brlcadpokes CIA-4
16:09.09brlcadhey mafm
16:09.14brlcadget my messages?
16:12.31mafmbrlcad: which one, the one of the code?
16:12.39brlcadabout uploading your code
16:12.49mafmyup, I already did
16:12.52brlcadah, great
16:13.37mafmthere are no more requirements for google, I think
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16:32.00mafmbrlcad: did you test g3d yet?
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18:11.32brlcadmafm: yep!
18:11.37brlcadlooking great
18:11.46brlcadtook a little finagling, it was a long while back
18:12.48mafm:)
18:12.59mafmglad that you like it
18:13.26mafmso we should talk some day about how to continue
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18:39.37brlcadabsolutely
18:40.03brlcadi mean, I think the next step is to do full libged integration -- it'll be this week probably that the command wrapper is finished
18:40.15brlcadletting you run pretty much any mged command
18:41.17brlcadthe next step would then be more gui work to make it look nice, fix some of the usability patterns
18:50.25mafmI see
18:50.38mafmis anybody going to start working on it immediately?
18:51.29brlcadwhat is "it"?
18:51.32brlcadthis task, yes
18:51.47mafmon g3d
18:51.49mafmwho?
18:52.07brlcadme, bob, and now starseeker have been working on libged quite a bit
18:52.14brlcadnot g3d directly
18:52.26brlcadit needs libged, so the efforts been there first
18:54.01mafmis there any plan at all to have other ppl working on g3d in the next few weeks?
18:55.20mafmI have to travel to Turkey for about a week, and then I was planning to have a bit of holidays if everything goes Ok
18:56.02brlcadI doubt it, honestly there is about two months of concerted effort remaining on libged to complete it
18:56.27mafmright
18:56.40mafmotherwise I could start talking with the people to coordinate a bit
18:57.34mafmbtw, Ralith isn't coding AFAIK, I guess that he needs some motivation, time, or something
19:26.03brlcadyeah, ebb and flow
19:26.18brlcadbeen a really busy summer in many respects
19:32.29mafm:)
19:32.34mafmok, so I go for today
19:32.37mafmg'night
19:33.20brlcadcya!
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03:16.20starseekerCIA-4:  helllllooooo
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04:06.13yukonbobhello, cadheads
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11:39.38mafmhi
11:41.22mafmbrlcad: lol, I had another message from you in the offical memoserv
13:43.08brlcadyeah, was a couple days trying to find you :)
13:44.12mafmI was lost in translation
14:01.43brlcad~seen jack--
14:01.50ibotjack-- <i=jack@unaffiliated/jack> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 27d 21h 19m 56s ago, saying: 'pirating opensource stuff rocks. so legal. :P'.
14:04.12mafmI will receive the payment and the t-shirt later because of that
14:07.48starseekerbrlcad:  Do you know if cawf was considered back when brlman was put together?
14:11.40starseekeris becoming increasingly annoyed at brlman's limitations
14:26.07``Eriko.O
14:31.36brlcadstarseeker: eh, I highly doubt cawf existed back then
14:32.01brlcadbrlman is really provided "just in case" the users doesn't have man
14:32.17brlcadotherwise, feel free to rip it a new one
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18:03.51louipccanadian arm wrestling federation?
18:29.11starseekerheh - a C version of awf, Henry Spencer's Amazingly Workable (text) Formatter
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18:47.11starseekerwe use awf right now for the basic last-ditch brlman manual reader
18:48.18starseekerI'm hoping the C code in cawf can provide an alternative that gives us greater flexibility for things like supplying  text to non-terminal outputs, although looking at this code I think there's a bit of a challenge ahead
18:52.59prasad_1starseeker: where can i find this awf/cawf
18:59.29prasad_1ah awk
19:29.22louipcI just use man :P
19:29.35louipcbut I guess it could be helpful for windows people?
19:35.17mafmgoing home, see you
20:21.21*** join/#brlcad CIA-4 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
20:26.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r32654 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (primitives/dsp/dsp.c table.c): Implemented rt_dsp_tess()
20:27.13CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32655 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (Makefile.am search.1): Add man page for search command, even though it is (currently) an MGED only command. Need to work on displaying it inside of MGED.
20:31.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32656 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/dsp/dsp.c:
20:31.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: it is important to preserve the order of includes
20:31.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: common.h/<system header files>/bio.h/<other BRL-CAD header files>
20:36.33*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5B14F892.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:39.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r32657 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/RtServerImpl.h src/librtserver/rtserver.c): Mods to account for changed package names in MUVES3
20:39.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32658 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/search.1: Fix non-assembly non-region combination search so it actually works
20:39.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32659 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/search.c: Add option to type to spot nested regions (assemblies with the region flag set, or regions containing regions depending on how you look at it.)
20:39.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32660 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/search.1: Update man page to include tables of standard attributes, types recognized, and other tweaks.
20:39.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32661 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
20:39.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: bob improved the Pro/E exporter so that it now iterates over different tolerance
20:39.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: settings, adaptively refining the tessellation tolerance to a more refined mesh
20:39.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: if a coarser tolerance fails. allows controlling the chord length and angle.
20:39.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: he also added more control over logging allowing only outputting success,
20:39.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: failures, success+failures, or all debug output.
20:39.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32662 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
20:39.33CIA-4BRL-CAD: add another line specifically for the pro/e logging options since it's a fairly
20:39.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: feature in itself. both the tolerancing and logging changes fulfill sf request
20:40.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: #2105927 (Refinemets of Pro/E to BRLCAD converter) from lee butler.
20:40.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32663 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
20:40.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: john awesomely added tessellation support to the DSP primitive. the fact that
20:40.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: dsp's lacked tess support was brought to attention on the brlcad-devel mailing
20:40.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: list by Bengt Wennehorst who discovered g-stl failing on a dsp. naturally,
20:40.03CIA-4BRL-CAD: adding tess support to the dsp primitive makes it possible to export them
20:40.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: through any of the polygonal exporters.
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20:43.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32664 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Add the release data for 7.12.6
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20:48.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32665 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/search.1: Formatting tweaks.
20:52.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32645 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (search.c search.h): Add maxdepth and mindepth options to search
21:01.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32651 10/brlcad/trunk/src/external/ProEngineer/ (proe-brl.c proe_brl.res): Modified to iterate over ranges of tolerances (i.e. one for chord length and one for angle). Also added more control over logging.
21:06.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32646 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (search.c search.h): Enable -empty option in search - will return combinations with no subtree.
21:07.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32647 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Get iname working (along with changes to libbu to allow search to know about BU_CASEFOLD
21:11.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32648 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (search.c search.h): Add path option to search
21:13.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32649 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/search.c: Regions are combinations - report them if type is combination
21:14.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32650 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/search.c: Add assembly type check to search.
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23:16.18brlcadlooks like samba folks are to blame about CIA going down recently
23:16.34brlcadthey did some git push that queued up 78k commits
23:18.01Ralithimpressive
23:19.22brlcadit's almost unbelievable actually, I'm thinking the wiped and remerged their entire history or somesuch
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080918

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080918

00:18.06*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
00:42.22*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
00:46.34``Erikdamn
01:45.38starseeker_hmm - http://es.fbk.eu/events/fmcad08/index.html
01:50.33yukonbobhello, cadheads
01:55.12starseeker_wonders how much background training would be needed to actually understand a Formal Method CAD paper
01:55.31starseeker_eeep  http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~jbingham/fmcad08-extended.pdf
02:04.52louipchah technicians aren't necessarily good writers
02:44.36starseeker_brlcad:  this looks relevant: http://doc-book.sourceforge.net/homepage/
02:44.48starseeker_brlcad:  Perhaps this as well:  http://drupal.org/project/export_docbook
03:14.42starseeker_http://moinmo.in/HelpOnXmlPages
03:33.14starseeker_brlcad:  I take it doclifter was the tool you were referring to for manpage->docbook?  The results are fairly impressive.
03:36.31starseeker_Here's the rt man page converted to docbook and then from docbook to html with no manual editing on my part:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/rt.html
03:43.54starseeker_Hmm - well, there's certainly this for html in tcl/tk and the license appears to be BSD - http://tkhtml.tcl.tk/index.html
03:44.09starseeker_claims to be alpha code though
03:48.53starseeker_GPL license on this one - nuts http://www.hwaci.com/sw/tkhtml/
03:53.21starseeker_well, nuts http://midc.miem.edu.ru/HelpSystem/ us GPL too
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06:55.20yukonbobstarseeker_: what are you looking for, with this html libraries?
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12:23.24starseeker_yukonbob:  A way to display html in MGED rather than relying on starting up a browser
12:27.40starseeker_makes note to compare docbook2X to whatever the "standard" option is for xsltproc when translating back from docbook to man page...
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13:06.23mafmhallo
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13:54.35*** join/#brlcad mafm_ (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
13:56.56mafm_sigh
13:57.07mafm_hail my network admins
13:57.24mafm_is looking for a new jobs btw, please employers apply
16:22.34prasad_1where are u mafm_
16:25.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32669 10/brlcad/trunk/ (misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln src/conv/Makefile.am): Added a bot-stl converter that converts bots to stl without evaluation.
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16:54.27mafm_prasad_1: Portugal
17:01.42prasad_1tough :(
17:07.35mafmyup
17:33.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32670 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/bot-stl.c: Added a bot-stl converter that converts bots to stl without evaluation.
17:39.58prasad_1if u were in the us we have a cpl of spots open
17:40.32mafmwhere do you work at?
17:50.33prasad_1www.scaleform.com
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18:57.16mafmprasad_1: heh, not bad
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19:13.26mafmgoing home, take care
19:13.28mafm:)
21:37.12starseekerHmm - CIA apparently doesn't like me
21:38.22PrezKennedyblack vans following you around?
22:03.05Ralithhm?
22:51.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32672 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/search.c:
22:51.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: Fix a couple bugs in the -below option - now seems to be working better, results
22:51.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: on m35.g match those of -type nr search. Also do better path argument
22:51.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: validation - multiple object full path values are valid, so can't just do
22:51.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: db_lookup on argv.
22:53.41starseekerah, crud
22:59.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32673 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/search.c: Doggone it - do path validation right this time.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080919

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080919

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01:35.08starseeker_PrezKennedy: heh, no not yet
01:35.37starseeker_doubts IRC bots have gotten good enough with AI to take over cars, but you never know...
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03:00.34brlcadstarseeker_: doc-book wiki is a project I've been involved with loosely for years -- tis a great project, but unfortunately not a great wiki
03:01.18brlcadthe mediawiki and drupal docbook integrations are more interesting since they can hook into what we already have better
03:01.41brlcadand yes, doclifter is the one
03:04.52brlcadstarseeker_: and Tkhtml3 should be more than enough to display our stuff, you really shouldn't need a complicated comprehensive html support package
03:05.11brlcadin fact the smaller/simpler the better/easier it will be to maintain and integrate
03:16.19brlcadstarseeker_: also, Tkhtml at http://www.hwaci.com/sw/tkhtml/ is not GPL, it's LGPL
03:51.52starseeker_brlcad:  They seem to have both GPL and LGPL statements in their tarball:  http://www.hwaci.com/sw/tkhtml/tkhtml.tar.gz
03:51.59starseeker_brlcad:  and the README is saying GPL
03:52.03starseeker_is confused
03:52.22brlcadwell, sources say lgpl, and those are all we'd need
03:52.40starseeker_which is the better one to look at do you think?
03:53.18brlcadwell, it's certainly a lot simpler than tkthml3
03:53.53starseeker_nods.
03:54.01brlcadI'd give tkhtml3 a try, see if it's simple to integrate
03:54.11brlcadif not, fall back to the one that you know should be simple
03:54.16starseeker_Right
03:55.05starseeker_Don't know if you've had a chance to look - I got above and below working, but at the cost of yet another tree walking routine.
03:55.33brlcadsaw the commit
03:56.05starseeker_is thinking when the tree walker rework comes he'll rip all that out, but leave it for now?
03:56.41brlcadthat's the idea for all the walkers eventually
03:56.48brlcadat least most of them
03:59.43starseeker_nods
04:00.06starseeker_was actually a good experience - taught me something about how general a really good tree walker will need to be
04:00.30starseeker_should I rip out the nested_region type?
04:04.21brlcaddoes the added value outweigh the added complexity and maintenance burden?
04:04.30brlcadif it does, keep it; if not, rip it
04:05.16starseeker_Added complexity is virtually ziltch for that type.
04:05.34starseeker_at least, given the need to detect assembly types too ;-)
04:06.15starseeker_Actually was able to show Mike that option to help him get at a model problem today
04:06.22starseeker_he seemed to like it
04:06.34starseeker_even though that wasn't his actual problem ;-)
04:06.55brlcadremember everything that's involved, not just code
04:07.34brlcaddocumentation over a lifetime, etc
04:08.17starseeker_nods. I'd say that it's actually much simpler to document that option than it is to explain search -below -type region -type region
04:08.43starseeker_so in that sense (docs included) it's probably a net savings
04:09.10brlcadand the fact that it breaks the consistency (it's not a type like the others, it's sort of a metatype)
04:09.17starseeker_so is assembly
04:09.25brlcadyep
04:09.44brlcadthat's not reason to keep it, that's reason to do something about both of them ;)
04:10.18brlcadthat said, if you think it's really worth it -- then i'll go with that
04:11.09starseeker_I'm willing to concede that anyone likely to appreciate (or care about) nested regions and assemblies can probably understand examples explaining how to detect them
04:12.01starseeker_Tell you what - if I do a tutorial-style doc for the search command that includes subsections on spotting assemblies and nested regions, I'll support yanking them as types.
04:12.19starseeker_'s main concern is to make sure usability is there
04:13.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32674 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/typein.c: make sure creating points with the in command will not result in empty point sets. also make sure they match the number specified at the beginning, not the number provided (which could be larger)
04:13.24starseeker_reflects on the deafening irony of that concern given MGED's usability status, but still...
04:13.39starseeker_cheers the point primitive
04:17.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32675 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: missing declaration of wdb_stub_cmd for windows (it's used by mged)
04:24.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32676 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/libbu/vls.c):
04:24.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: fix a bug in bu_vls_gets where a fixed buffer size of BUFSIZE*10 was incorrectly
04:24.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: returning truncated/short lines. this caused nulls to get inserted during reads
04:24.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: that in turn caused commands like mged's 'in' command to fail. encountered this
04:24.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: problem when creating a new pnts object (though it conceivably affects *any*
04:24.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: mged command.
04:29.22brlcadis impressed to find out that you can actually display half a million points interactively
04:29.38starseeker_wow
04:29.49starseeker_that is pretty impressive
04:29.54brlcadat least half a million, haven't seen how high it'll go
04:30.02starseeker_heh
04:30.14starseeker_feels pity for brlcad's poor computer
04:34.41starseeker_brlcad:  You might find some interesting stuff here:  http://www.mpa-garching.mpg.de/Virgo/data_download.html
04:35.53starseeker_This sucker is 280 megs, not sure how many points that equates to:  http://www.vis.uni-stuttgart.de/eng/research/fields/current/pointclouds/virgo.pcld.gz
04:39.10brlcadeven displaying them as spheres works relatively reasonably implying that it should be fine to display upwards of about 10M points "interactively"
04:39.42starseeker_jeez
04:40.00starseeker_how many points are we looking at for a full vehicle scan?
04:40.19brlcadnobody has ever done one
04:40.39starseeker_heh - well, that's one point ;-)
04:40.52brlcadit's not even clear (to me) that it's still anywhere close to being a viable/efficient modeling approach (scanning)
04:41.12brlcadbut it is useful for visualization and as reference points for "real modeling"
04:41.28starseeker_That's my thought
04:41.46starseeker_Dwayne can follow a point cloud around making primitives for the surface
04:43.58starseeker_I really don't see how a point cloud can serve as anything but (maybe) a basis for a single mesh
04:44.15brlcadnow the cool trick would be to leverage what we did with the vulcan scanner
04:45.24brlcadclick a button, select a couple points from the scan, and it'd automatically make primitives for you
04:46.15starseeker_Hmm.  Maybe have it prompt for a user selected list of points to "fit" a user selected primitive type to?
04:46.57starseeker_or a version of in where it's a option to use the mouse to sample the point cloud and have it print the xyz coords to the in command?
04:49.10brlcadthat's sort of what lee and I did
04:49.23brlcadthe first one at least
04:49.45starseeker_first one is probably more useful :-)
04:49.49brlcadthe vulcan is a point-sample cmm device, gives you individual points in 3space
04:50.26brlcadso we came up with a system where you could create primitives using a set of conventions
04:51.24brlcadso like for an N-sided "plate", for example, you'd click a point on each corner of the top, and then one point for the depth
04:51.35brlcadand it'd automatically make the corresponding solid
04:51.56brlcad(which in that exaple best fit a sketch and an extrude)
04:52.35starseeker_nice
04:52.35brlcadif you had a cylindrical object, you could select three points on one of the ends and a fourth point for the length, and it'd make the tgc/rcc
04:53.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32677 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (search.1 search.c):
04:53.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: Now that above and below are working, there is no need for special case logic to
04:53.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: handle assemblies and nested regions in the type section. Since those are
04:53.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: likely to be common search cases, include examples of how to use below to find
04:53.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: nested regions and assemblies have been added to the man page.
04:54.27brlcadthere was a dozen or so defined, mged has it now as (the undocumented, as it's pre-alpha) parse_points command
04:54.44starseeker_sweet
04:54.46brlcadexpecting labels and points from a file
04:55.14brlcadwhich is what src/mged/points is
04:55.32starseeker_should those live in libged eventually?
05:00.05starseeker_brlcad:  Well, this mortal must seek sleep - thanks for talking me into the type handling change.  That does seem cleaner.
05:01.04brlcadi wasn't trying to talk you into one way or the other, just to think about all the tradeoffs
05:01.18starseeker_either way, good thoughts :-)
05:01.58starseeker_also realized that with .mgedrc you could simply alias a findnestedregions command to a specific search
05:02.39starseeker_same for a wide variety of common searches - worth mentioning as a labour saving technique in the main docs.
05:06.16starseeker_shutdown -h brain
05:13.38brlcadhrm
05:13.57brlcadkicks CIA-4
05:13.57CIA-4ow
05:19.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32681 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/namegen.c: beware of c99isms, ws. add to dist.
05:20.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32682 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/Makefile.am: beware of c99isms, ws. add to dist.
05:29.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32683 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/fnmatch.c: don't call it isblank, don't rely on it being a define either. just roll own.
05:45.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32684 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (edsol.c mged.h): dead code cleanup
06:18.58CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32685 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/search.c: ws
06:24.37Ralithws?
06:24.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32686 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/search.c: quell warnings and fix a bug with case-insensitive matching (it was always matching case-insensitive).
06:30.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32687 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: (log message trimmed)
06:30.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: bob finished implementing a preliminary bot-stl exporter that dumps out bots as
06:30.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: stl data but without evaluating the csg booleans, solidity, normals, etc. this
06:30.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: is to help make export go much faster when the modeler doesn't care about the
06:30.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: geometric representation. this is *really* exceptionally bad for analysis
06:30.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: purposes unless you know exactly what you're doing and the implications; it's
06:30.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: fine for rendering/visualization purposes though. this addresses sf bug 2106032
06:49.08brlcad~ws
06:49.11ibotmethinks ws is short for workstation.  White Space, or the country code for Western Samoa
07:00.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32691 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.h: bogus declaration. maybe that has something to do with the bizzare crash reported to the sf bug tracker [ 2043925 ] ERROR: NULL bn_tol pointer.
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11:25.53mafmhello
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13:10.45starseeker_brlcad:  Whoops.  Sorry you had to mess with the ccblank/isblank stuff
13:42.19starseeker_is really liking doclifter :-)
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14:14.30starseeker_scowls at xchat
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14:36.52starseeker_grr
15:27.29brlcadcatches th' outgoing tide, arrr!
15:27.50brlcadmornin' mafm
15:29.33mafmhello brlcad
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16:36.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32692 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: emphasize some of the more significant warnings by sleeping longer
16:42.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32693 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac:
16:42.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: automatically search /usr/X11 for X11 components since AC_PATH_XTRA on Mac OS X
16:42.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 10.5 (where R7 is now used) isn't set up to search there yet. this should fix
16:42.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: the 10.5 mac build that was previously failing in Tk because X11 was getting
16:42.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: disabled when it couldn't find libXi.
16:53.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32694 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: Added declarations for wdb_search_cmd and wdb_stub_cmd.
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19:22.11mafmwell, I'm going home
19:22.39mafmI'm gonna be mostly unreachable for a week, going to a congress in Turkey
19:22.45mafmbe happy!
19:27.53brlcadcya mafm, have a great weekend!
19:28.52mafmthanks :)
20:20.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32695 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
20:20.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: trying to make the solver start looking at the current values and start
20:20.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: iteration rather than from the minimum value possible, so as to facilitate
20:20.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: implicit constraint checks during rt_prep for instance which might be satisfying
20:20.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: the constraints already (nonfunctional), code cleanup
20:29.16``Erikshiver me timbers o.O
20:34.20prasad_1arrrrrrrrr
21:19.33CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r32696 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/adrt.h: add load format defs
21:20.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r32697 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/load.c: stub out the various load formats
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080920

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080920

00:06.13*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
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03:46.24starseeker``Erik:  Is an extension of ".1.xml" enough to mess up the .html.xml: build rule?
03:46.41starseekerresists urge to pull hair out...
07:51.56*** join/#brlcad PrezKennnedy (n=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
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14:51.17yukonbobmorning, cadheads
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22:19.40starseekerWoooooot
22:20.09starseekergets close to a successful build of all BRL-CAD man1 man pages with docbook
22:53.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32698 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/picket_fence.1: make sure man page uses the spelling picket instead of pickett (command is picket_fence)
22:56.27starseekersrc/other/URToolkit/man/template.1 is a bit of a nusiance
22:59.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32699 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/URToolkit/man/rleinterp.1: make rleinterp man page use rleinterp instead of rleintrp.
23:03.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32700 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (cad_boundp.1 cad_parea.1): tweak headers of man pages for cad_boundp and cad_parea
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080921

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080921

00:58.17*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.207.60)
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02:31.47starseekerbrlcad:  How do we want to handle man1 man pages that come from src/other?  I presume those shouldn't be docbooked?
03:11.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32701 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/alias-pix.1: formatting tweaks
03:14.12starseekerbrlcad:  chan_mult looks like it should really be two man files - it's got multiple name lines, which doclifter doesn't care for
03:16.03CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32702 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/dxf-g.1: Doesn't look as if there should be a period before ATTRIB
03:17.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32703 10/brlcad/trunk/src/fb/fbframe.1: Add space between RB and [
03:26.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32705 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mk/mk_bolt.1: Looks like a stray .g at beginning of line was resulting in conversion error in doclifter and an undisplayed line in man.
03:32.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32706 10/brlcad/trunk/src/fb/pixautosize.1: looks like .fr was supposed to be .ft based on similar example further down page.
03:34.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32707 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/pixcut.1: pp should be PP - up-case command
03:37.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32708 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/pixdsplit.1: .\% giving uninterpreted command error and doesn't seem to impact rendering in man - removing.
03:41.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32709 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/pix-sun.1: formatting tweaks
03:43.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32711 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/rtscale.1: filename isn't a command - needs a command before it
03:48.10brlcadstarseeker: yep, minimal or no effort in src/other
03:48.47brlcadtake any liberties necessary (chan_mult, etc), the docs are fair game for overhaulage
03:49.15starseekerrighto, thanks :-)
03:49.58starseekerLooks like I'm down to five that can't be autolifted
03:50.51starseekerbrlcad:  How do you want to approach this - should it be an "all at once" swoop or can I make "most" of them install from docbook and pick up the rest?
03:51.46brlcadcommit early
03:51.48brlcadcommit often
03:51.50brlcadcode complete
03:53.51starseekercode complete?
03:54.27brlcadi.e. work piecewise but don't leave it half-done
03:54.46starseekerright
03:54.56brlcadcoding complete is the practice of working on a task and leaving things in a functional state after every step
03:55.06brlcadeven if it results in (seemingly) more work
03:55.10starseekerAh :-)
03:55.22starseekerfortunately, in this case it isn't more work :-)
03:55.55brlcadit rarely ever is *actually* more work over the lifetime of the effort to all developers that have a vested interest
03:57.49brlcadstarseeker: there's more info about coding complete on the wiki in the gsoc pages
03:58.03brlcadas it was one of their "acceptance criteria"
03:58.08brlcaddigs
03:58.55starseekerhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Acceptance#Write_complete_code
03:58.56brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Acceptance
03:59.25brlcadthe last three are particularly relevant to any developer
04:00.54starseekernods - well written
04:14.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32712 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: mged seems to be behaving much better now. still needs more work, but better is better.
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04:16.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32713 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: there's no need to revert the nmg processing back out of librt into a generic library, at least not before the next release. push it down.
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04:31.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32714 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: Adding initial support for enabling/disabling docbook building - doesn't impact anything yet but the logic should be in place.
04:43.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32715 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: remove duplicate
05:49.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32716 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 4 dirs):
05:49.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: Initial framework for docbook based building and installation of man pages.
05:49.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: Currently builds both html and man page; for the moment it installs the html
05:49.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: version in the data directory, subdirectory html/man1 Only two test files are
05:49.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: present at the moment, and their original man page ancestors are not yet removed
05:49.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: - this will come once testing of new arrangement is complete.
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16:01.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32718 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/ (alias-pix.xml all_sf.xml): rework autoconverted man page docbook, add copyright statement in comments.
16:08.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32719 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/ (alias-pix.xml all_sf.xml): tweaks
17:54.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32720 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/fast4-g.c: oops, not from stdin. read from fpin.
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19:35.18iraytraceAnyone built a 64bit version on Leopard?
20:08.18brlcadiraytrace: i helped parker get a build on friday
20:09.01iraytraceAny trick to it?
20:09.18brlcadit fails finding tk because it doesn't build tk; it doesn't build tk because it can't find libXi (or more exactly all of X11); it fails to find X11 because it's no longer /usr/X11R6
20:09.20iraytraceI just did a checkout and configure still can't doi it.
20:09.23brlcadso you have to tell configure where X is
20:10.05brlcadtry --with-x=/usr/X11
20:10.22brlcadotherwise have to add /usr/X11/lib and /usr/X11/include to the paths
20:10.38brlcad--with-x should do that for you (untested)
20:10.57iraytraceHmm.  I have a /usr/X11R6 on my machine (installed the Apple X first)
20:11.09iraytraceI got a comfigure, but not a compile.
20:11.13brlcadit's not complete
20:11.21iraytrace./configure CFLAGS=-m64 CXXFLAGS=-m64 --enable-everything --enable-64bit-build
20:11.24brlcadthere's just a few libs that are there for compatibility
20:11.44brlcad10.5 bumped it up to X11R7
20:11.54brlcadso it's now just /usr/X11
20:13.09iraytraceI also installed Xquartz
20:13.30iraytraceSeems to be a different problem that we saw on friday.
20:13.42brlcadwhat's the problem?
20:14.11iraytracefirst, --enable-64bit-build doesn't set -m64
20:14.22brlcadcustom-installed X11 is uncharted territory, little chance that would work with default configure options to say the least
20:14.38iraytracedefine "custom"
20:14.45brlcadyeah, that's a known issue -- even when it does set it, you still have to set the FLAGS
20:15.11brlcadbecause of how the libtool script gets generated before configure completes
20:15.37brlcadit'll end up compiling 32-bit and there's not a good way to force it (that I've found so far) without setting the flags directly
20:15.44brlcadat least not for all platforms
20:15.46iraytraceI haven't seen any X11R7 dir.  All the systems I've seen (install Leopard, install Xquartz) have X11R6
20:15.59brlcadit's not an R7 dir, it's just /usr/X11
20:16.17iraytraceX11R6 is a sym-link to X11
20:16.56brlcadah, right
20:17.45iraytraceWhen I build I get down to "pngtcl" and get an error: ld: in /usr/local/lib/libfreetype.6.dylib, missing required architecture x86_64 in file
20:17.57iraytraceOdd, since I didn't know we were using freetype
20:18.02brlcadtk uses it
20:18.07brlcadoptionally
20:18.11iraytraceat least not the system one during --enable-everything
20:18.44brlcadquick fix is to turn that off, sounds like it's finding a freetype you installed
20:19.01brlcada non-64-bit install
20:20.20brlcadtry adding --disable-xft to configure
20:20.39brlcadmake sure it gets passed to tk's sub-configure
20:21.48iraytraceI renamed freetype.dylib and am making progress now.
20:51.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32721 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/ (Makefile.am fastgen.sh fastgen_dos.fast4):
20:51.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: add a new test script to exercise the fast4-g converter. the test writes out a
20:51.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: simple box in fastgen format with unix line termination and with dos line
20:51.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: termination, makes sure both can be converted to a .g, and that the two .g's
20:51.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: have no differences via a g_diff test.
21:42.07iraytracebrlcad: thanks.  I've got it running now in 64bit mode.
23:23.11*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
23:34.28*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
23:34.28*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || The 2008 Google Summer of Code is complete! -- Thanks deserved to all of our students! || (Source) Release 7.12.6 posted 2008-08-19 || Mailing lists are now reply-to-list instead of reply-to-sender by default
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080922

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080922

00:00.09docelichey folks, I'm looking at the tire tutorial, and it uses "1 tire" in mged, but I get invalid command name "1".. what's the catch?
00:02.00docelicactually I see that's "l", but still it looks like I have to load the .g file first?
00:43.34starseekeryes
00:43.47starseekeryou must load the .g - it's the database with the tire in it
00:44.33starseekerIf you're new to BRL-CAD you might want to spend some time with the VolII book before hitting the tire tool - it makes some assumptions about knowledge of BRL-CAD
00:55.50brlcadnotes that docelic left..
00:56.18brlcadhe's not new to the channel, but undoubtedly a newbie to mged
00:56.38starseekerah, shoot
00:56.46starseekerneeds to check people leaving...
00:57.46starseekerbrlcad:  Does the docbook->man stuff look reasonable to proceed with?  
00:59.00brlcadstarseeker: the stuff I've seen to date looks good
00:59.09brlcadlots of repairs, I noticed
00:59.32brlcadlooks like about 2-4% had a problem
00:59.50starseekerHeh
01:00.02starseekerLittle tweaks for the most part, nothing spectacular
01:00.33starseekerThe docbook will need to be hand fixed in most cases, and that means things like multiple command names can also be delt with
01:00.47brlcadhow does it look if you take it back to man?
01:00.54starseekerpretty good
01:01.14starseekeri.e. - about the same
01:01.25starseekerheaders are a bit different - more "standard" I suppose
01:01.37starseekerinclude things like date created
01:03.33starseekeralso, xsltproc fusses if it doesn't have an author entry, so for the ones without it I'm just putting "BRL-CAD Team"
01:06.46starseekerwill break out the license comment section into its own file to avoid duplication
01:07.10brlcadyeah, that's actually where it would be good to start collecting real authorship information for programs
01:07.31brlcadlisting everyone that has worked on the various programs, sort out a mechanism for level of contributions
01:07.39brlcadsimilar to the authors file, but per application
01:08.09starseekernods. Yes, that's a good idea
01:08.35starseekerbetter to wait until after the technical side is up and running though - that's a potential mine field
01:09.11brlcadit's a lot of svn searching
01:11.14starseekerTrue
01:12.01*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
01:14.56starseekerhmm, actually makes very little sense to xinclude a commented section.
02:32.25yukonbobo.O
02:32.36yukonbobspies "xinclude"...
02:34.00louipcaww I can create a truncated right cone but not a true full right cone
02:54.59starseekeryukonbob:  Yes, we're using it in the Docbook work
03:20.22yukonbobstarseeker: I was trying to use it in some work, and it was choking -- I _think_ I traced the problem via google, but I don't even remember off top of head what the issue was... It looked like it required some extra work outside of the .xml file itself, though...
03:20.40yukonbobstarseeker: is the work commited (ie: if I update my checkout, I'll see it?)
03:20.46starseekerhmm.  I've had pretty good success with it so far.
03:20.59starseekeryep - look in doc/docbook
03:21.16starseekerit's not integrated into the build system just yet except for a couple test files
03:21.38yukonbobstarseeker: so are you just manually running a toolchain?
03:21.56starseekerI have been up til now
03:22.10yukonbobhas been using xsltproc (DocBook -> html)
03:22.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32722 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Put docbook version of search command in, and remove old man page version. Already formats much better, and is serving as a good test case for template development.
03:22.30yukonbobupdates his copy of tree...
03:22.38starseekerIf you have xsltproc, you should be able to make the examples in doc/docbook/system/mnan1 now
03:22.42starseekerer man1 rather
03:22.59yukonbobis xsltproc what you've been using too?
03:23.04starseekeryep
03:24.14starseekerThe man pages generated by this process are almost certainly too much for awf, but in this day and age the only platform that doesn't have man on it that anybody uses is Windows, and even awf doesn't help there
03:25.01starseekerThis process will get us html and (eventually) pdf versions of everything for free, and will even allow the same sources to be integrated both into Volume II's appendix and the man page process
03:25.19yukonbobindeed
03:25.36starseekeris tense - afahk no one else has yet tried this
03:30.26yukonbobwouldn't be worried -- docbook is built to be maleable that way.
03:34.24starseekerI mean building it
03:34.41starseekeris a tad new to autoconf hackery
03:38.52yukonbobstarseeker: perhaps tap into the cmake work that's going on...
03:38.54yukonbob?
03:40.00yukonbobis _NOT_ a cmake expert (or even a novice), but has the book, and intends to learn it. I it's promise is very interesting
03:40.08yukonbob*I think it's ...
03:41.17starseekeris supposed to be able to work with BRL-CAD as it stands ;-)
03:42.11yukonbobwell "as it stands" seems to me to be a moving target ;)
03:42.30yukonbob...but you're the implementor and more "in the loop", if there's in fact a loop to be in ;)
03:42.40yukonbobheads out on Quest for Food
03:45.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32723 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/search.xml: Add dashes to primitives. Also include author section so xsltproc will be quiet.
03:55.16starseekergrins evilly
03:55.20starseekerhttp://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/search.html
03:55.36starseekerand http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/search_man.png
04:03.28yukonbobnice tables in that man page
04:09.59starseeker:-)
04:10.05starseekerthanks
04:10.43starseekerlooks like I need to add some html specific table logic to get them to look better there
04:10.51starseekerwill do that tomorrow...
04:11.07starseekerwere you able to build them?
04:30.53yukonbobdidn't try yet...
04:31.33yukonbobheads to doc/docbook/system/man1
04:35.00yukonbobmay see what his issue was...
04:53.02brlcadlouipc: what do you mean?  what is a "true full" one?
04:56.12brlcadstarseeker: that man page looks outstanding, nice
05:01.42starseekeryukonbob:  If you want to look at xinclude stuff, try the VolumeII.xml file in doc/docbook/book/tutorial_series - I'm not using it in the man pages as yet
05:01.47starseekerbrlcad:  thanks!
05:07.22yukonbobwaves to brlcad, gets ready to sign-off for evening...
05:13.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32724 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
05:13.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: unable to reproduce the text flood hang when running rtarea on 'slow' machines.
05:13.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: probably just a case of not trying a machine that's actually slow enough, but we
05:13.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: did try several configurations and enough has changed so it was maybe
05:13.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: inadvertently fixed anyways.
09:00.40louipcbrlcad: ending with a point instead of ending with a circle. I made the second radius .00001 heh
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09:05.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32725 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/BrlcadCore.def: added bu_vls_gets
09:05.40Ralithso, not a point, just a very very small circle.
12:15.43starseekerOf course, in the real physical world you never have an infinitely sharp point
12:16.07starseekereven an atomicly pointed cone isn't the same as a true mathematical non-truncated cone ;-)
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13:01.47brlcadlouipc: that's actually intentional since physically there is no "infinitely thin" tipped point
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13:24.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32727 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: the c++ engine is in the rt^3 module and john implemented tess for the dsp
13:24.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32726 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: vararg.h was eliminated along with the old cray code
13:25.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32728 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: cliff fixed the 'Create Solid' reference in volII already as part of the docbook conversion
13:25.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32729 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: cliff implemented a find command for mged (woot)
14:44.13brlcaddebates finally hitting up rtarea once again
14:45.21yukonbobwaves in: Hello, cadheads
14:45.30brlcadhowdy yukonbob
14:45.45yukonbobwhat's shaking, brlcad?
14:47.23brlcadmy belly
14:47.31brlcadnot enough gym time lately :(
14:48.23prasad_1<nelson>ha ha</nelson>
14:48.24prasad_1;)
14:49.50brlcadyeah, it's pretty bad .. eating way too much, rotator cuff is inflamed something aweful, cardio capacity is *way* down
14:51.06prasad_1i went last night
14:51.10prasad_1after 6 mos
14:51.11prasad_1:o
14:51.14prasad_1hurtin
14:51.19yukonbob:P
14:51.46yukonbobwent for big run/hike for first time in long time other week too... actually felt really good (at the end)
14:52.22yukonbobwill hopefully get into habbit of hitting bicycle again....
14:53.39*** part/#brlcad prasad_1 (n=psilva@static-70-108-244-218.res.east.verizon.net)
15:00.21brlcadbegins the rtarea rewrite
15:01.51yukonbobbrlcad: good luck!
15:02.15brlcadthis will make the third or fourth rewrite
15:02.30brlcadit's so frequently used, though, deserves some attention/improvements
15:02.36*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@h-67-103-183-185.mclnva23.covad.net)
15:29.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32730 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/mirror.c: remove dead mirror code
15:33.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32731 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/mirror.c: remove authorship
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080923

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080923

22:54.41*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
22:54.41*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || The 2008 Google Summer of Code is complete! -- Thanks deserved to all of our students! || (Source) Release 7.12.6 posted 2008-08-19 || Mailing lists are now reply-to-list instead of reply-to-sender by default
23:16.11brlcadhugs ibot
23:40.21``Eriktake it to a private channel, perv O.o
23:46.11PrezKennedyheh 15 years ago i was 9
23:46.31PrezKennedydarn old folks and their funny words
23:53.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32743 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS src/tclscripts/mged/text.tcl):
23:53.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: with bob's help, we fixed several issues with mged's hacked gets wrapper. this
23:53.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: is in response to lee's sf bug 2123488 ( Tcl I/O broken on Windows and Leopard )
23:53.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: where running mged in tcl gui mode resulted in gets always returning the string
23:53.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: length instead of the input string read (with stdin input). there were then
23:53.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: also a couple related bugs for when the channel == stdin that required similar
23:53.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: fixage.
23:54.36brlcadPrezKennedy: heh, careful there .. you're getting 'old' pretty quick :)
23:56.02brlcadthat makes you about 16 when we first met and that wasn't very long ago :P
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080924

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080924

00:01.35PrezKennedyhm... long time ago
00:02.17louipcwowzas
00:15.46*** join/#brlcad docelic_ (n=docelic@78.134.195.14)
00:18.07docelic_hey folks I'm following mged tutorial.. When I run "in spkr.s tor 16 16 16 1 0 0 12 1", mged crashes with "Illegal instruction".. It's a 7.12.4 release compiled on Debian.. have any ideas? Btw, mged crashes but object is in the db, I see it with ls.. If I try to draw it, it also crashes... (But other objects like rpp, rec, etc. work correctly).
00:21.32brlcaddocelic_: yeah
00:21.58brlcadthere was a thread on the mailing list where an ingenious fellow traced down that problem
00:22.37brlcadquite obscure and insideous, amounts to a compilation/configuration problem with SSE instructions
00:23.36brlcadyou apparently have hardware that doesn't support sse instructions, yet a compiler happy to generate binaries with sse instructiongs
00:24.12brlcadthe fix it to either obtain the latest from svn or edit configure.ac and disable our SSE tests
00:24.21docelic_well, the system is Amd Athlon, and cat /proc/cpuinfo lists sse under flags
00:24.31brlcadcould be sse2
00:24.50docelic_that could be, yes.
00:25.16brlcadedit configure.ac, look for a section that says BC_COMPILER_AND_LINKER_RECOGNIZES([-msse2], [msse2], [nokeep])
00:25.41brlcadcomment out that entire block and then run "sh autogen.sh" to regenerate a new configure script
00:25.56brlcadfrom there you should be able to rebuild as before
00:26.59docelic_sure... ok thanks, it'll be recompiling while I continue without speaker element..
00:27.08brlcadsorry you had to run into that, we're trying to get another release out so it doesn't bite others
00:27.53brlcadbut we're also in the middle a big restructuring so it'll still be a week or two
00:28.59docelic_no probs,.. I'll get onto the ML later too
00:30.19docelic_btw, is TAB supposed to autocomplete or not in mged's tk window? I get bgerror failed to handle background error.
00:30.19docelic_, Original error: bad text index "--"
00:30.19docelic_, Error in bgerror: invalid command name "::swidgets::togglearrow"
00:31.04brlcadit should autocomplete, works like a charm here
00:31.20brlcadblinks in confusion at that error
00:31.47docelic_another error from TAB is:
00:31.52docelic_Error in bgerror: window name "_secErrorDialog" already exists in parent
00:31.55brlcadmged doesn't even use swidgets
00:32.46brlcadyou're using mged and not archer, yes?
00:33.14docelic_yes, I run mged from cmdline and in the window title it says MGED 7.4.12 command window id_0
00:33.38brlcadhrm, never heard of that happening before
00:33.51brlcadso you just hit tab and it pops up a dialog with that error?
00:33.57brlcador it displays in the command window?
00:33.57docelic_yes
00:34.31docelic_(hit tab and it inserts that in cmdwindow)
00:34.39brlcaddo you have tab bound to something/anything in your window manager?
00:34.52docelic_nope, works normally in i.e. xterm
00:35.12brlcadcan you upload that .g somewhere?
00:35.42brlcadactually first, does it happen with any/all .g files?
00:35.49brlcador just the one you're working on
00:35.58docelic_yes, I was about to say -- it happens on empty .g too
00:36.46docelic_first time it pops up it says about ::swidgets::togglearrow like I pasted above, then on all futher TABs it prints about _secErrorDialog ...
00:36.58docelic_s/pops up/displays/
00:37.29brlcadtry running: mged -c
00:37.38brlcadpress enter (for nu)
00:37.51docelic_works there
00:37.54brlcadthen etab]
00:38.12brlcadsry, e[tab]
00:38.28brlcadshould display something like: e e_muves eac echo edcodes edcolor edcomb edgedir edmater em eqn erase erase_all ev exit expand extrude eye_pt
00:38.39docelic_yes, it works there
00:38.51brlcadso try again without the -c
00:38.56brlcadand no database open
00:39.36docelic_doesn't work (same 2 errors -- swidgets and _secErrorDialog)
00:40.31docelic_does it depend on what libs mged links to during compile?
00:40.54docelic_btw, is there a 'draw all' command?
00:41.00brlcadit "shouldn't", at least nothing that I can think of that would cause that problem
00:41.12brlcadonly if there is an 'all' object in the database
00:41.22brlcadthe 'tops' command will list the top-level objects
00:41.31brlcadyou usually want to draw one of those
00:41.31docelic_no I mean something that would draw all objects at once
00:41.39docelic_ah, :)
00:41.42docelic_got it draw *
00:41.50brlcaddraw * is very evil... :)
00:42.09starseekercheck in from c++ land
00:42.10docelic_sure but not for a radio that's missing a tor element :)
00:42.12brlcadthat's drawing every primitive, every combination that uses those primitives, every assembly of every combination, etc
00:42.29brlcadi.e. drawing everything many many times over
00:42.43brlcadhardly ever what you really want
00:43.19brlcadthere's a geometry browser on the tools menu for pointy-clickedness
00:44.30brlcadotherwise the usual command-line way is like on the unix cmd line with 'tops' and 'l' letting you traverse a hierarchy listing
00:44.45brlcadthe tree command often helps too
00:44.55brlcadthere's an mged quick reference sheet that spells a lot of this out
00:45.05brlcadhowdy starseeker
00:45.10brlcadhow's it been so far?
00:46.19starseekernice
00:46.26starseekerfairly basic, but already some good stuff
00:46.48starseekercommute is murder
00:49.43starseekerbrlcad:  From an html documentation standpoint - what's your take on the table column width?  Is it ok to leave it free floating?
00:49.43yukonbobthought "meat is murder"
00:49.43CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32744 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS:
00:49.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: docelic reported that mged (on debian) displays an swidgets error when tab is
00:49.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: pressed. The problem was noticed on 7.12.4 and happens regardless of there
00:49.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: being a db opened or not. The problem does not occur in classic mode.
00:50.46brlcadstarseeker: in general, I abhore fixed width layouts that don't utilize available space
00:50.58brlcadso free floating sounds fine with me
00:51.05brlcadunless I misunderstand you of course
00:51.22starseekerPossibly.  Did you take a look at the html version of search.html on bz?
00:51.35brlcadyep
00:51.50starseekerIf you look at the tables, you'll notice the column widths aren't uniform
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00:51.59starseekerthey match the widest text in each row
00:52.02starseekerer column
00:52.06brlcadah, that kind of alignment
00:52.29starseekerOddly enough, I think the fo->pdf conversion does handle it
00:52.31brlcadambivalent for that kind of plain conversion
00:52.51brlcadthat could be set up with a single css file
00:52.56starseekerit apparently needs an xslt processor with support for some kind of extension
00:53.01starseekerah :-)
00:53.05starseekerhadn't considered that
00:53.08brlcadnah, I bet they just leave it to css
00:53.33brlcadyou're just seeing a default html4 table style
00:53.41starseekernods
00:54.10starseekerdocbook supports a colspec attribute for tables which is somewhat annoying but can be used to set the relative (or absolute) width of the columns
00:54.24brlcadyeah, looking at the sources, it's fully span/divified, just no css to format anything
00:54.31starseekerapparently saxon and xalan can translate that into html table output, although I've yet to test it
00:55.03starseekernods. I hadn't considered the css route - that might make more sense if it can be slipped into the template
00:55.41starseekeris afraid he's picking up brlcad's taste for perfectionism in quality ;-)
00:56.12brlcadtis a painful disease
00:57.42docelic_you can specify html.stylesheet parameter for auto-including a reference to css..
00:57.54docelic_(works with xml only, sgml requires manual hack to put that in)
00:58.10brlcadah right, docelic_ you're a regular on #docbook aren't you
00:58.46starseekerdocelic_:  That's a good idea.  I know I'm eventually going to have to start making custom xsl overlays (the nirt docs ALREADY require it) but I've yet to sort out the mechanisms of doing that with basic xsltproc
00:58.48docelic_ay ay
00:58.54brlcadthought your name was familiar, more than just being a lurker in here :)
01:00.22starseekersighs in relief - that leaves fop/pdf support as the only other thing needing configure support, and that should be quite simple now that I understand the basics
01:00.51starseeker<evil grin> maybe I can even start building pdf vol II and vol III tonight yet :-)
01:01.54starseekerbrlcad:  Oh - is it ok to build html and man by default without providing a user option to turn off one or the other?  I wouldn't worry except the time factor is significant and then some
01:02.16starseekerbuild time
01:02.34brlcadstarseeker: that would be awesomeness
01:03.57brlcad(that is, being able to build them tonight) :)
01:04.05starseeker:-)
01:04.42brlcadas for building them by default, it has to be all smooth and auto-detecting to be on by default, regardless of having a switch
01:05.45starseekerOh, that part's OK (I think) already - the trick is there isn't really a way to detect that the user only wants html or man format ;-)
01:06.03brlcadi'd like to do a release with default off first, unless it really is cross-platform tested everywhere
01:06.08brlcadoh you mean together
01:06.11starseekerright
01:06.14brlcadhell, sure --
01:06.36brlcadI don't think there needs to be anything more than --enable-docs and --disable-docs
01:06.44starseekerOK :-)
01:06.53brlcadif they want more granular than than, they can rm the files they don't want
01:07.04brlcads/than than/than that/
01:07.27starseekernods. I just figured saving ~20 mintes of build time (for the full set) of an unwanted format might be appreciated
01:07.43brlcadnah, they asked for docs
01:07.45brlcadthey get docs
01:08.52starseekerlol
01:09.08brlcadI'd like txt, man, html-single, html-multi, and pdf by default myself
01:10.18starseeker<grin> I'll see what I can do
01:11.23docelic_30
01:11.35starseeker30?
01:11.56docelic_that should've been an input for mged
01:12.09starseekerAh :-)
01:21.09brlcad31!
01:28.54brlcadstarseeker: heh, you can see an example of what happens if I just drop in that crazy orange css template I use on the ideas page
01:28.58brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/~sean/tmp/search/
01:29.19starseekereeeeeep
01:29.33starseekerIt's the Halloween man page
01:29.58brlcadneat, the links actually work
01:30.23brlcadthough the a.hover is a bit annoying :)
01:30.36starseekerheh
01:31.18brlcadheads out
01:31.27starseekercan automake handle nested ifs?
01:31.35starseekeroh, sorry - nevermind
01:31.38brlcadit's not pretty
01:32.01brlcadsee src/Makefile.am for an example
01:32.26brlcadit's very duplicative and can be confusing given we support 1.6
01:33.02starseekerwhat about something like if BUILD_DOCBOOK && !BUILD_DOCBOOK_PDF ?
01:34.41CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r372 10/trunk/libirc/ (6 files in 2 dirs): add invite event
01:42.07*** join/#brlcad PrezKennnedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
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02:27.02starseeker``Erik:  What was the trick again about using something like .fop.pdf: .xml.fo to get an automatic calling of dependency in a Makefile.am?
02:27.10starseekerI can't even get fop to RUN
03:24.05starseekergrrrrrr
03:51.07starseeker``Erik:  Help.  Apparently the previous success at building html was a fluke, since I can't duplicate it for html + pdf.  The current Makefile.am I'm trying is here:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/Makefile.am and the ONLY thing it builds right now are the man pages.  What am I doing wrong?
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04:18.30brlcadstarseeker: nope, only supports simple single-symbol syntax
04:25.27brlcadstarseeker: looks like there's several things wrong with that Makefile.am
04:26.22brlcadincluding some basic typos (e.g., mac1DOCBOOK)
04:34.48brlcadyou should test each of your build rules one at a time, individually
04:59.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32745 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: improved DSP tessellation now also honors cut type and handles zero values
05:01.58CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32746 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: Mouse cursor turns into a huge yellow-translucent arrow when running MGED through remote X11
09:10.40*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
09:10.40*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || The 2008 Google Summer of Code is complete! -- Thanks deserved to all of our students! || (Source) Release 7.12.6 posted 2008-08-19 || Mailing lists are now reply-to-list instead of reply-to-sender by default
10:45.26starseekerturns bright red
10:45.46starseekerbrlcad:  thanks - that mac1DOCBOOK was most of the problem, evidently
11:08.18starseekerbrlcad:  That yellow-translucent arrow happens on Netscape too, IIRC.  I looked that up - it has something to do with X11 on MacOSX, if I remember right - I don't think it's MGED's fault specifically
11:10.21*** join/#brlcad archivist_emc (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
11:13.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32747 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac doc/docbook/system/man1/Makefile.am): Add support for building pdf versions of Docbook files via Apache FOP
11:15.13starseekernote to self - do not attempt makefile logic when too tired to keep eyes open
11:18.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32748 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/Makefile.am: Use proper variables instead of hardcoding the extensions.
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11:55.34brlcadstarseeker: it's not, but there's a simple fix for mged that works around the problem
11:55.57brlcadit ends up sending the cursor over with the wrong byte encoding, making it look fugly
11:56.21brlcadso if you set it to something, the local X server you're connecting through gets to display it (correctly)
11:56.32brlcadjim hunt somehow figured that out for mged
12:03.03clock_what's going on with these 700 billion dollars in the US?
12:05.45brlcadclock_: the gov't is buying everyone new ipods
12:06.36clock_I was like surfing for 3 weeks so it went past me
12:34.31*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.195.14)
12:35.01docelichey folks is brlterm still an active thing or it's been removed in recent versions?
12:36.29brlcadbrlterm?
12:37.59docelicah I see.. that thing exists but it's not related to brlcad...
12:38.57docelicin any case, someone made debian package for brlcad, and it installs those hundreds of executables into /usr/bin.. I was thinking if a shell wrapper could be made which adds a non-system bin path to your PATH when you enter it
12:39.15docelicsimilar to how grass does it.. when you run it, you have tools from /usr/lib/grass/.../scripts/ in your path
12:39.59brlcadah, the debian wrapper thing..
12:40.29brlcadyeah, that would be great actually
12:40.40brlcadhaving a brl-cad terminal is actually on our todo list
12:41.41brlcadthe idea being an actual double-clickable terminal app that would provide the same posix environment cross-platform (so I can get a goddamn decent console on Windows g'dammit)
12:42.34brlcadand it'd set up the PATH, MANPATH, LD_LIBRARY_PATH and whatever else is needed to allow for relocation (if it's a system like Mac OS X where that becomes trivial)
12:43.18docelicright.. are there some notes written about it? (besides just todo item)
12:46.22brlcadmm, somewhere
12:46.33brlcadyou interested in working on it?
12:47.18brlcadit's not terribly complicated, the hardest part is how to get a tty on systems that don't have one :)
12:47.18docelicsure
12:48.42brlcadi'll see if I can get some notes up into the wiki later today (in about 4-6 hours)
12:49.02doceliccool
12:49.17brlcadit is pretty simple, though (intentionally), and could easily be done without any notes ;)
12:49.54brlcadit'd sort of be a way to provide a command-line and a graphical launcher all in one "app"
12:50.40brlcadcould even call the thing "BRL-CAD" and it'd be the one double-clickable application that gets installed (maybe one of two)
12:51.16brlcadwith a means to launch mged or start issuing command-line commands right there in the console
12:53.30docelicyes.. well as I see it, what could be done is just find a shell that compiles on all platforms supported by brlcad.. compile it together with brlcad and provide a default shell config file which sets all the things needed..
12:54.11docelicand ideally the shell would be just a tar.gz from upstream which can be replaced by user with newer/older version before compile, and the build system wouldn't care
12:54.52docelicor even better,
12:55.51docelicfor platforms that do have good shells on their own, just create config files, and user or install procedure can make a shortcut  brlcad -> this_shell -config brlcad.cfg
12:55.58brlcaddocelic: have you tried looking for such a shell? :)
12:56.44brlcadharder than you'd think, at least without pulling in a massive dependency chain like kde or cygwin
12:57.17docelicyou wouldn't like cygwin for windows? what if a person could download binary build of the cygwin-based shell?
12:57.31docelic(unrelated to brlcad)
12:57.50brlcadit's alright if you're going to do everything through them
12:58.22brlcadi wouldn't mix msvc compilation in along with a cygwin-built terminal though
12:58.51brlcadand most windows devs I know aren't too fond of having anything to do with cygwin
12:59.05brlcadunless they're unix devs just using windows because they have to :)
12:59.08docelicI believe that :)
12:59.15docelick bb later
12:59.20brlcadcya
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15:33.35yukonbobmorning, cadheads
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15:36.51docelicoi yb
15:57.25brlcadhowdy yukonbob
15:57.35brlcadgut en tag
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16:02.41iWhat if i want to revolve a line, which represents a shaft's half-symmetry? I think i have two choices: 1 sketch mode and 2 solid modeling. Am I right?
16:03.46i!brlcad
16:04.18brlcadhi i
16:04.29ihi
16:04.57iAm i right that solid modelling shall be used in this case, in BRLCAD?
16:05.12brlcadi: solid modeling approach is used throughout brl-cad
16:05.46brlcadi: hold on a sec (on phone)
16:06.22iand i can not e.g. revolve relatively precise lines around an axis as in e.g. AutoCAD? Well, i do't really need it...
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16:27.35iandaletterbrlcad do not support export into different file formats as e.g. iges... I need to build it with Open Cascade support. Is it much to download? Is it a separate source tarball?
16:35.29docelichow are binary builds for sourceforge.net downloads done? is there a makefile command that comes up with the ready-made tarball or?
16:36.44prasad_1http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2008/09/request-for-urg.html
16:38.38iandaletteris it hard to build brlcad with open.cascade support? Is there much to download? or only few megabytes?
16:39.32docelichttp://www.j-walk.com/other/conf/
16:41.48iandaletterdocelic: tarball, ./configure, make, make install, ubuntu needs m4, bison, flex and xorg-dev with its dependencies.
16:42.13iandaletterand more or less... e.g. open cascade to support iges...
16:42.45doceliciandaletter, no, I'm asking how are the tarballs are made, not how to compile source from them
16:45.01iandaletter.tar, which is bzipped, extract it in home directory, cd into it, in terminal, write './configure', then 'make', then 'sudo make install'
16:45.22iandaletterwww.ansysed.narod.ru/linux.htm
16:46.06doceliciandaletter, and then what? bzip the resulting installation from /usr/local?
16:49.51iandaletterno, it installs by default into /usr/brlcad after 'sudo make install' - and all u need is to edit .bashrc into your home folder, as 'cd', then 'gedit .bashrc', addinto the end of the file: 'export PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin', and then e.g. reboot to let system to read that changed .bashrc and tipe in terminal 'mged'
16:50.15docelicdude, iandaletter , you completely do not understand what I am asking
16:51.48iandaletteroh! yeah! wait...
16:52.43iandaletterwell... i'd just downloaded some old 32-bits source tarball...
16:56.49iandaletterthough, i'm able to add the path /usr/brlcad/bin contains over 400 programs, where oone is mged - it is a multidesktop graphical editing
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17:15.25docelicin brlcad 7.10 for irix , how do I get the geometry window to show up? I can add solids and call draw, but there's no window in which it draws
17:20.27iandaletterwhen you start mged, you can "put a database to disk" thru 'mged -n new01.g' - why do you need it? it would ask you to chose between nu | X | gl, where e.g. X is an x window system's "private Rayan" Well, this operation shows you wheter you're able to chose between "nu" option (which means no graphics at all) and at least anything else...
17:22.39docelicaha, ok.. well then must be that this thing is compiled with 'nu' option only, cause that's the only option I get.
17:24.29iandaletteri bet, e.g. Ubuntu needs xorg-dev with its dependencies, totally about 5 mb to download... Probably, GL in ubuntu needs flgrx
17:24.33iandaletter!flgrx
17:24.59docelici'm about sure you spelled it wrong
17:25.00iandaletteruh... don't know anything about both irix and GL
17:25.54iandaletteryes, ask 'ubuntu' at irc.freenode.net - he's a bot, he answers qestions
17:41.40iandaletteri meant ubottu
17:41.43*** part/#brlcad iandaletter (n=asus@217.8.236.185)
18:22.45brlcadwows at the previous chatter
18:49.52louipcfglrx
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21:47.54jjsimonHello, I was wondering if anyone could point me to documentation on writing a plugin for BRL-CAD?  I'm working with a group of students on a sound modelling addon/program to/using BRL-CAD.  Any advice is appreciated.
21:49.45jjsimonI guess I should ask if writing a plugin is even viable...I see a plugins option in Archer, but not in MGED
22:06.59*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
22:29.19brlcadjjsimon: howdy
22:30.24brlcadjjsimon: mged plugins are more straightforward for mged, though it depends on what sort of extension you want to write (compiled vs scripted vs hybrid)
22:33.59brlcadjjsimon: the basic first-level "plugin"/extension for mged is just a tcl script -- you can see an example of one such extension in mged under the Tools -> Geometry Browser menu item
22:35.24brlcadcompiled extensions are a little more involved but either amount to making new commands or run-time loadable extensions via a pkg binding interface (which are also tcl-loadable modules)
22:36.25brlcadfor your sound modeling project, I would expect that to involve a bit of a hybrid approach where you'd have an external program that does some work and a tcl interface in mged to present the results
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22:42.21jjsimon-mtusorry, got DC'd
22:42.36jjsimon-mtualso lost the reply :-/
22:42.47jjsimon-mtuif you could copy/paste it, I'd appreciate it
22:43.06brlcad18:34 <@brlcad> jjsimon: mged plugins are more straightforward for mged, though it depends on what sort of extension you want to write (compiled vs scripted vs hybrid)
22:43.09brlcad18:37 <@brlcad> jjsimon: the basic first-level "plugin"/extension for mged is just a tcl script -- you can see an example of one such extension in mged under the Tools -> Geometry Browser menu item
22:43.13brlcad18:39 <@brlcad> compiled extensions are a little more involved but either amount to making new commands or run-time loadable extensions via a pkg binding interface (which are also tcl-loadable modules)
22:43.17brlcad18:40 <@brlcad> for your sound modeling project, I would expect that to involve a bit of a hybrid approach where you'd have an external program that does some work and a tcl interface in mged to present the results
22:44.10jjsimon-mtuhm...well, we're starting out simple.  The idea is to model a simple room with multiple sound sources...use ray tracing to model the reflections and analyze the interference
22:44.30brlcadnods
22:45.23brlcadexamples of codes that do similar tasks are in src/rt (the various view*.c files are all separate programs) as well as src/rttherm
22:45.38jjsimon-mtuexcellent
22:45.45jjsimon-mtuthanks a lot
22:45.47jjsimon-mtuone more question
22:45.49brlcadsrc/rt/rtexample.c is a simple starting point for writing a ray-trace application
22:46.07jjsimon-mtuI saw jbrlcad in the SVN, how stable/usable is that?
22:46.17jjsimon-mtuassuming it's a Java port)
22:46.18brlcadthe src/rt/view*.c programs utilize the "RT" application interface
22:46.40brlcadyeah, it's the start of a java port of the core ray-trace library
22:46.49brlcadit was more a proof of concept
22:47.49brlcadit just implements a couple primitives, nothing complex, and uses a much simpler boolean evaluation method that is a couple orders of magnitude slower than what librt does
22:48.01jjsimon-mtuah ok, so stick to the C version...I noticed, on the wiki, mention C++ wrapper for the core libs, is that under development or actually usable?  If usable, where can I find more info about it?
22:48.14jjsimon-mtu*mention of a
22:48.14brlcadthere is a JNI interface to some of librt
22:48.43brlcadsee src/java
22:49.18brlcadbut yeah, I would recommend sticking to c/c++
22:49.36louipcoh wow I thought jbrlcad was just java bindings
22:49.37brlcadthe c++ wrapper is bleeding-edge active development so I wouldn't recommend trying it
22:50.12jjsimon-mtuAlright, thanks a ton, I'll poke around the wiki for more info
22:50.30brlcadotherwise, the C++ interface does already exist and is being used by a couple 3rd party projects
22:50.44brlcadif you do want to give it a go, it's in the rt^3 module
22:51.16brlcadwhich also has two other development activities (new modeler interface and geometry service interface), so consider yourself forewarned :)
22:51.47jjsimon-mtu:) thanks, I'm sure I'll be around here quite a bit over the next few months
22:51.50brlcadjjsimon-mtu: sure, I'm usually here as are several others than can answer the coding questions
22:51.55brlcadcool
22:52.26brlcadlouipc: yeah, it's a complete transposition by one of the core devs from C into Java
22:53.04``Erikno, jbrlcad doesn't touch brlcad at all, the only link is the toplevel repo and some overlap in file format and role O.o
22:53.15brlcadour C api is already very naturally designed into categories of data processing routines which translates very well into an object-oriented layout with encapsulation
22:54.27brlcadhe implemented most of our low-level database I/O and proceeded on to ray-tracing and started implementing primitives, translating the code into Java along the way
22:54.38brlcadiirc, he stopped when he got to the torus..
22:54.56``Erikjim's dorked with it some since, but nothing of serious consequence
22:55.39brlcadthe torus is one of the first primitives that requires a polynomial root solver for evaluating the ray intersection, that was another 10k chunk of code in its own right so he stopped :)
22:55.50``Erikas far as plugins, that's not a special category since our core isn't closed source, code is code :) where it comes from isn't particularly relevant
22:56.59``Erik(though I do plan on making plugins in the adrt shtuff so C stuff can be added and removed from a running instance)
23:00.21brlcadhow's the rippage going?
23:08.50``Erikripwhathuh?
23:11.43brlcadon adrt
23:11.49brlcadderippage?
23:11.55brlcadreparage?
23:16.52``Erikah, I had a brain off day today, the current state is what's in the repo
23:17.29``Erikall forks are re-merged, split and shot don't work yet
23:17.44``Erik(I think it's protocol mismatch)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080925

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080925

00:40.21starseekerchecks in
00:42.33yukonbobhello, cadheads
00:42.40starseekerhowdy :-)
00:43.32yukonbobprepares to have to log off in couple minutes...
00:43.39yukonbob(damn battery...)
01:12.33brlcadponders a deeply obscure db_dump bug
01:20.28``Erikthat sounds like an awesome thing to add, brlcad
01:21.12brlcadhm?
01:21.23brlcadit already exists
01:21.34``Erikthen why're you pondering one? :D *duck*
01:21.44brlcadah, heh
01:21.59``Erikponders genericising tree walkers and making the existing ones wrappers
01:22.00brlcadit's screwy as hell, it's daniel's bug that he posted to the mailing list
01:22.12brlcaddo it!
01:22.19brlcadthat is so sorely needed
01:22.32brlcaddb_recurse was sort of the start of that
01:22.38brlcadbut never finished
01:22.46``ErikI was talking to dave and mike about it, threw out a basic plan
01:22.54``Erikmike said it sounded good, so I told him to go do it... he refused
01:23.15brlcadyeah, no way he's getting out of his armchair to actually do something
01:23.34``Eriknot true!
01:23.40``Erikhe'll move like you wouldn't believe to talk to people
01:27.47``Erikbeer, popcorn and stargate continuum, awww yeah
01:29.02brlcaddid almost exactly that when it came out
01:29.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32749 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_open.c: make sure we don't try to dump a v4 database into a v5 database since it's not implemented.
01:29.07brlcadcept s/beer/scotch/
01:29.14brlcadyum
01:32.01``Erikaight, then, bring my some scotch! :D beeyotch
01:33.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32750 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_open.c: ws
01:54.36brlcadwoo hoo! .. think i found it
01:54.42brlcaddamn damn obscure
01:54.43*** join/#brlcad The_Schmidt (n=chatzill@74.196.207.174)
01:55.00brlcadwho woulda thunk that there is something wrong with this:
01:55.00brlcaddp->d_flags = (dp->d_flags & ~7) | flags;
01:56.00The_Schmidtwhatsit?
01:56.18brlcad| flags is wrong
01:56.28brlcadit overrides the set d_flags
01:57.08brlcadthe whole line is pretty much wrong it seems, have to figure out where it came from
01:57.32The_Schmidtu inthe code for this project?
01:57.51brlcadyep
01:58.02The_Schmidtcrazy go nuts
01:58.16The_Schmidtneed a distraction?
01:58.25The_Schmidtget your mind outta that code for a bit
01:59.09The_Schmidti need advice on where to start
01:59.20louipcmged
02:00.13The_Schmidti was wondering if this app would be a suitable for the designing of cardboard boxes
02:01.43brlcadi'm not exactly an expert on what all is required to design cardboard boxes
02:01.47The_Schmidti design boxes that use a spec diagram to fold and take certain dimensions to fold based on their thickness
02:02.32The_Schmidtdoes this have folding features that could accomodate?
02:03.05brlcadhmm
02:03.13louipchah that constraints stuff could be handy
02:03.20brlcadfolding as a feature edit operation?
02:03.52brlcadyou can certainly rotate something that would represent an edge, or write a script that would apply a boolean with a rotation
02:04.03brlcadbut not as a direct edit operation
02:04.11brlcadlouipc: yeah, no kidding
02:04.41The_Schmidtcan u use it to do a simple 2d drawing?
02:05.02The_Schmidtor are you confined to 3d space?
02:05.17brlcadheh, sort of a contradiction there :)
02:05.39The_Schmidtwould that be like trying to use blender to draw 2d vectors?
02:06.01brlcadyou can do simple 2d drawing via our sketch editor, but it frankly sucks imnsho
02:06.15brlcadif you want to model with a 2D approach, there are better tools
02:06.24brlcadlike qcad
02:06.27brlcadit's 2d-only
02:07.28The_Schmidtany free/open source recommends?
02:07.37brlcadi just did
02:07.43yukonbobhttp://www.langorigami.com/science/treemaker/treemaker5.php4
02:08.49The_Schmidthmm
02:09.04louipcholy moly!
02:09.20brlcadthat would make for an interesting mged extension :)
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02:09.29louipchahaha
02:09.37brlcadtake an nmg/bot and unfold it
02:10.35yukonbobhits road; will hit libtool this evening (pick whatever definition of 'hit' you please ;)
02:14.40brlcadouch, this is apparently an 8 year old bug
02:16.55Twingynot mine
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02:26.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32751 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/deprecation.txt: need to prefix all the DIR defines with RT
02:35.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32752 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (db5_alloc.c db5_io.c db_alloc.c db_io.c): use RT_DIR_PHONY_ADDR instead of -1L on d_addr
02:56.46brlcad*whew*
02:57.10starseekerwhew?
02:57.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32753 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/ (db_open.c wdb.c): (log message trimmed)
02:57.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: fix the problem that daniel ran into with the db_dump snippet he sent to the
02:57.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: brlcad-users list. his program opened an inmem and dumped it to disk, but was
02:57.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: crashing during the dump. there were several problems I found (after 10
02:57.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: freaking hours of debugging and testing...), one being a bug in
02:57.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: wdb_export_external() that was 8 years old. the routine erroneously allowed a
02:57.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: disk dp to be marked as an inmem dp. that caused a crash since the (union
02:57.14starseekerah :-)
02:57.31starseeker~brlcad++
02:58.36louipcibot: karma brlcad
02:58.36ibotbrlcad has karma of 1
02:58.43starseekerblinks
02:58.43louipcibot: karma ~brlcad
02:58.44ibot~brlcad has neutral karma
02:58.56louipcbrlcad++
02:59.01starseekerwhoops
02:59.03louipc~brlcad++
02:59.06louipcibot: karma ~brlcad
02:59.06ibot~brlcad has neutral karma
02:59.13louipcibot: karma brlcad
02:59.13ibotbrlcad has karma of 1
02:59.18louipcshrugs
02:59.25starseekerwe tried :-)
02:59.31louipcbuggy bot. sorry for the spam
02:59.33starseekerforgot about that cute little quirk
02:59.57starseekerI think that's actually a deliberate joke on the part of the bot author
02:59.58brlcadlouipc: isn't not a bug, ibot's maintainer made the response to my karma be fixed at 1 :)
03:00.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32754 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_open.c:
03:00.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: add some extra protection to the db_dump problem, it shouldn't be trying to a
03:00.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: disk-based wdbp with inmem export flags set. this isn't strictly necessary now
03:00.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: since wdb_export_external catches the error, but it doesn't hurt either.
03:00.17louipcah haha
03:01.21brlcadthinks those fixes are enough for now, my noodle is baked
03:01.52starseekeris impressed
03:02.00brlcadi'm not
03:02.07brlcadshoulda found that damn bug hours ago
03:02.18starseeker<snort> That's how it always goes
03:02.35starseekerat least you aren't typing macDOCBOOK1 into automake files
03:02.51brlcadwent up and down the stack, up and down the stack, poking variables and *seeing* it was wrong and understanding why it crashed, but not how it got to that state
03:03.32brlcadchaulk it up to daniel to provoke an 8-year old bug
03:03.54starseekerKinda scary some of our features haven't been prodded in that long :-(
03:11.53brlcadthere is only one place that routine is used, mged's "dump" command
03:12.06brlcadwhich is never used to dump an in-memory database
03:12.22brlcadbasically it was just a situation that was (apparently) never tested
03:12.29starseekerfun
03:12.35brlcadas in-memory support is something sorta new
03:13.44brlcadinmem's were totally busted for ray-tracing -- i went through similar debugging a couple years ago when I wrote g_transfer to get that working too
03:14.04starseekerick
03:24.54louipchaha sounds like what I was doing when I got the illegal instruction drawing the torus
03:27.04brlcadthat's why I said it was impressive when clubley found that bug so quickly
03:27.11brlcadthat was quite obscure too
03:29.05starseekersigh - why doesn't gentoo have IEE 754 floats I wonder
03:30.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32755 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: provide non-deprecated RT_DIR defines
03:32.21brlcadstarseeker: there's not 100% confidence that the tests won't produce false positives, but I've yet to see it fail if you pass -mieee-fp (and be sure -ffast-math is off along with the other ieee-killer compilation flags)
03:33.19brlcadthe tests are in m4
03:34.22starseekernods. I'll have to check into that - it may be running the unstable gentoo has gotten me something funky enabled without me being aware of it
03:49.57starseekerbrlcad:  Well, I can build pdf and single page html of the volumes now
03:50.21starseekerchunked output and little things like installing the images correctly for html pages remain to be figured out, but it's progress
03:51.00starseeker'course, considering how messed up the images are right now anyway...
03:52.20starseekermust sleep for the drive tomorrow...
03:54.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32756 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/lessons/mged/ (16 files): Update lessons xml files for pending directory rename.
03:56.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32757 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/mged/: remove old mged commands directory - this is going to be replaced by including full man pages for mged commands in system/man1
03:57.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32758 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (Makefile.am book/): remove old book directory in preparation for rename.
03:59.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32759 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/tutorials/: delete tutorials - will rename to articles
04:16.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32760 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (131 files in 18 dirs): Add books and articles to docbook
04:18.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32761 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: Oh, yeah - configure.ac probably wants to know where the make files are...
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13:45.50``Erikwaves at claymore O.o
13:46.41claymorehai
13:49.49``Erik'sarah palin sez "terminators go away please" 2008'   <-- some odd crap in webcomics these days
13:50.38pechos_muchos``Erik: how big are they?
13:54.57``Erikhuh? how big are what? O.o
13:55.22pechos_muchosthe waves at claymore
13:55.31claymoreWell thats rather personal :)
13:55.45pechos_muchosand what kind of break is at claymore?
13:55.49``Erikoh, those, think bowling balls, but bigger
13:55.51``Erik:D
13:56.26pechos_muchosthat needs a longboard
13:56.49``Erik(it's really not that cool, I mean, custom chairs for everything, custom pants, have to waddle like a cowboy...)
13:56.58``Erikah, it's karel :D
13:57.43``Erikcrap, m eeting time
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15:00.21claymore'To sum up why mankind will never achieve its full potential, in one word:  Meetings" - Dave Barry
15:11.25PrezKennedywants to call a meeting of all the world's politicans and lawyers -- on the moon, then blow it up
15:21.56claymorebut then, that's no moon...
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15:48.54claymoreyawns.
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16:37.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32764 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/bot_dump.c: Fixed vertex indices in face records. Vertex indices start with 1 and are global in file scope (i.e. they aren't local to the group).
16:57.13brlcadwoot, claymore joins the insanity
17:10.25claymorebrought my white 'love myself' jacket too.
17:35.31``ErikO.o whoa whoa, tmi there
17:36.24claymoredenial ain't just thre river in Egypt :D
17:37.09``Erikthat's gotta be a phrase very ingrained in the queers on military boats, my dad used to say that all the time
17:38.39claymoreThey teach it in Boot during the Don't ask Don't Tell training.  Its right after the 'Good game' asspat practice. ;)
17:39.08``Erikreminds me of my 'football is gay' joke rant O.o
17:39.41``Erika bunch of men in spandex, groping a misshapen ball, laying ontop of eachother and slapping eachothers asses, then taking a big communal shower... ggggaaaayyyyy :D *duck*
17:40.32claymore...and making WAY more money than we could ever hope to make... all for playing a game.
17:40.43``Erikyeah... that' sgay.
17:40.46``Erik:D
17:41.47``Erikdamnit, I broke smurfette of using the word gay like that, and there I go doing it *sigh* :D
17:42.24claymore...so, hypocrite is applicable here then?
17:42.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32765 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: daniel fixed a memory leak in all of the database processing tools that create geometry as there was an avs not getting released.
17:42.42``Erikthe crite-iest
17:42.56``ErikI, uh, did it for the comedy!
17:43.47``Erikso, wait, is 33 called off?
17:45.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32766 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_inmem.c: remove dead code
17:48.56``Erikis boggled that he came back to lunch broke, must've had the queues clicking just right
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18:17.54iandaletterHave someone built it with Open Cascade support?
18:27.01iandaletter``Erik:  I have brl-cad working, but I've not found a way to export geometry as e.g. IGES. Do I need e.g. to build BRL-CAD with Open Cascade support?
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18:36.19``Erikthere are a number of g-* files in the bin/ directory, that is how we 'export'
18:36.35``Eriknot all formats are supported (I think iges is 'import only')
18:36.53brlcadiandaletter: building brl-cad "with open cascade support" makes no sense -- we have absolutely nothing to do with open cascade
18:37.12brlcadwe have our own iges importer and exporter
18:44.09iandaletterok, I just try to export it into gmsh www.geuz.org/gmsh/
18:44.31iandaletteri will see thru the directories, thanks!
18:46.10brlcadiandaletter: what is it you're trying to do?
18:57.32*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
18:57.32*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || The 2008 Google Summer of Code is complete! -- Thanks deserved to all of our students! || (Source) Release 7.12.6 posted 2008-08-19 || Mailing lists are now reply-to-list instead of reply-to-sender by default
18:58.19iandaletterWell, I used ANSYS, but now I spent some time to www.impact.sourceforge.net - and soon I will download www.code-aster.org I create geometry as e.g. spindle, then well... "to better endure pulse loads"
18:59.31``Erikreally doesn't wanna hear about anyone pulsing their spindle for a load O.o *duck*
19:05.25iandaletterok
19:35.07*** join/#brlcad cad17 (n=45867556@bz.bzflag.bz)
19:42.02*** part/#brlcad iandaletter (n=asus@217.8.236.141)
20:17.45*** join/#brlcad CIA-4 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
20:50.43*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-68-71.dclient.hispeed.ch)
21:05.44*** join/#brlcad iandaletter (n=asus@217.8.236.141)
21:06.11iandaletter...but i can import 2D-IGES and revolve it?
21:06.38brlcadiandaletter: you'll need the very latest sources
21:06.46brlcadand it depends
21:06.59brlcadrevolves only work with sketch objects
21:07.12brlcadI don't recall if a 2D IGES will import as a sketch
21:07.26brlcadI think it may just ignore non-solid IGES entities
21:07.48brlcadah, no -- it does bring them in
21:08.03brlcadbut don't know if it'll bring them in as an nmg (which can't be revolved) or as a sketch
21:08.06*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-68-71.dclient.hispeed.ch)
21:08.14brlcaddxf-g will import as a sketch
21:09.07brlcadthen you can create a revolve object using that sketch (which presently only works for arcs/curves and line entities, not splines)
21:09.44brlcaddoes the unthinkable .....
21:12.10iandaletterok ... We, "constructors" has no doubts: just a solution can be different. Nevermind. What if I have 7.10 version for 32-bit i386? is it old? It seems, never versions are 64-bits ones?
21:12.42iandaletterand why don't you sleep? Or it's only an evening?
21:12.46brlcadthat's pretty old
21:13.05brlcadI'd suggest a 7.12, but it should be fine depending on what you're doing
21:13.10brlcadthere are no revolves in 7.10
21:13.19brlcadthey're brand new in .12
21:13.30brlcadand sleeping sucks
21:14.36brlcadthere's plenty of time to sleep when you're dead
21:14.46iandaletterok... well... I know revolves only from AutoCAD... How can I "extrude" an orthogonal view into dxf to be able to edit it in e.g. QCAD?
21:15.34iandaletterIt seems, ProEngineer has a feature to draw allthe dimensions... I will wait for such a feature in brl-cad...
21:16.25iandaletteri meant autamatically draw it...
21:18.12brlcadi don't know if it's only dxf, I said I don't know how 2D iges import
21:18.20brlcadit'd be a quick test for you to figure that out
21:19.33iandaletterno, i mean - what if i have 3D model - and i need a drawing? can i create orthogonal view? And edit this view in other programs (add dimensions and so on)?
21:28.34iandaletterBRL-CAD cold have a features for meshing - splitting geometry down to finite elements. The only problems are mesh is needed to be refined at e.g. certain borders as a holes and e.g. outer edges. well... free mesher www.geuz.org/gmsh/ 'weights' whole 20 mb - and it is primarily a mesher.
21:35.22*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (i=127@resnet-45-219.dorm.utexas.edu)
21:45.50louipcbrl-cad has no drafting features
21:48.32iandaletterwell... i need no an fotorealistic images... it seems, 2D Qcad can import 3D dxf - if it is an orthigonal view - it is almost a drawing... uh...
21:49.04brlcadlouipc: not strictly true, they're just really weak from an editing stand-point
21:49.28brlcadthe sketch primitive supports many/most of the basic representation requirements for drafting purposes
21:49.58brlcadthe rtedge renderer produces drafting-style hidden-line drawings, just without annotation/dimension details
21:50.05louipcyeah but you'd have to do it all manually
21:50.11louipchahh
21:50.38brlcadiandaletter: are you a coder?
21:50.50brlcadif you are, you're welcome to help make things better ;)
21:50.59brlcadeven if you're not, you're welcome to help make things better!
21:51.00iandalettermy www.pastime-one.livejournal.com
21:51.07louipchehe
21:51.25brlcadiandaletter: that's a 404
21:51.26louipciandaletter: page not found
21:51.33brlcadiandaletter: you in .ru ?
21:51.51brlcadtries to infer/decipher the language disconnect
21:52.15brlcadahh, louipc just remove the www.
21:52.40iandaletterbrlcad: I must say I discuss brlcad when I do not know even whole commands... It's at firs time with me... I'm even a bit too responsible...
21:53.01brlcadunderstandable
21:53.44iandaletterhttp://pastime-one.livejournal.com/ graduate mech equipm designer
21:54.10brlcadiandaletter: wth is "q-smth" :)
21:54.45iandaletterprobably, q-iges ? I don't know ;)
21:54.50louipcmaybe he meant g-*?
21:54.51brlcadI think you maybe meant g-iges but I have no idea how you got that from q-smth is wierd :)
21:55.02brlcadyeah, g-* are the various exporters
21:55.18*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
21:56.05brlcadg-acad g-dxf g-euclid1 g-jack g-nmg g-off g-stl g-var g-x3d g-adrt g-euclid g-iges g-nff g-obj g-shell.rect g-tankill g-vrml
21:56.23brlcadhowdy Ralith
21:56.47Ralithhey
21:56.57Raliththat is a lot of conversions.
21:57.21brlcadnot enough though
21:57.39Ralithhow many is enough?
21:58.23brlcad64k should be more than plenty
21:58.40Ralithlol
21:58.43louipcha ha
21:59.06louipcg-solid_metal
22:00.23Ralithso I got an atmega644p the other day
22:00.31Ralithit's setting next to me blinking an LED in complicated ways.
22:00.38Ralithgood fun.
22:01.22louipcmaybe it's trying to communicate
22:01.38Ralithit is communicating "your program works"
22:05.32clock_porting BRL-CAD to atmega644p?
22:06.02clock_with LED as a 1x1 resolution graphical monochrome display?
22:06.23Raliththat sounds feasible.
22:06.37clock_multipane supported *)
22:06.50clock_* only as long as all 4 panes show the same picture
22:10.50iandaletterbrlcad: what if i would use brl-cad on those tiny laptops as ones 250$$ cost? 800x480 pixels... uh?
22:11.14brlcadwhat if you do?
22:11.27Ralithiandaletter: that would be fine, I'm sure.
22:11.31Ralithraytracing would be slow.
22:11.34iandaletteryes, what if i would buy such a laptop?
22:11.45Ralithwhat's your question?
22:12.01Ralithif you bought such a laptop then you would have such a laptop.
22:12.02clock_one laptop per child?
22:12.32iandaletterok... but my words can be used on e.g. slow machine with relatively small screen resoulution as e.g. 1024x768 were right, yeah?
22:13.08Ralithyour words?
22:13.30Ralithmged is not very resource intensive afaik, assuming you're not loading hugely complex models.
22:13.35louipcdon't use that as your build machine
22:13.41Ralithyeah, compiling would suck too
22:13.46iandaletterwell, yes, not mine ones... Those english words then :)
22:14.29Ralithyou're not a native speaker; that explains a lot.
22:14.34iandaletterlouipc: "build machine" - what do you mean? You mean complicated drawings?
22:16.55iandaletterok... but old versions are available, right? and there are fullsupport in newer versions for*.g files, right? So... old machine can be used for e.g. old version of BRL-CAD, isn't it?
22:17.37Ralithnew versions work fine on old machines
22:18.14iandaletterthen it's ok
22:19.05brlcadiandaletter: brl-cad will run on *very* minimal hardware (you don't even need a display)
22:19.22brlcadit's just the more minimal it is, the smaller the database  you'll be able to load
22:19.34iandaletterok
22:20.03brlcadI think ever since tcl was integrated, that pushed our minimum memory footprint up to 20MB or something
22:20.16iandaletteri'm about rather single details, not about something huge as e.g. "a whole department"
22:21.10Ralithbrlcad: aw, I guess I won't be able to port to the atmega after all :(
22:26.30brlcadRalith: nah, it's possible
22:26.37brlcadentirely depends how it's compiled/linked
22:26.44Ralithhehe
22:26.55Ralithdreams of a microcontroller cluster
22:28.32brlcaddreams of himself standing in sort of sun-god robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at him
22:29.09iandaletterwuhh... pickles in him...
22:29.43Raliththinks brlcad might be hitting the caffine pretty hard
22:30.57brlcadchuckles at the reference to one of the best geek cult movies of all time
22:31.25``Erikdepends on how old of a machine, I don't think a vax11/780 with 4k ram cuts it anymore :(
22:31.44``Eriker, 4m? *forgot*
22:31.45brlcadrt might run, but no mged
22:32.15``Erikheh, justin and I used to joke about 'numa-pic' (PIC 16f88 style microcontrollers)
22:32.37``Erikbut then the naked women showed up *sigh* there went that plan
22:39.11iandaletternaked women usually love sporty guys with good hobbies as e.g me
22:41.12brlcadiandaletter: and money, can't forget money and power ;)
22:42.50brlcadruns and hides after doing something evil...
22:42.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32768 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
22:42.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: [playing taps] yes, the time has finally come.. to deprecate jove. it's become
22:42.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: a maintenance burden with a bug that actually corrupts (large) input files so
22:42.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: it's time to encourage/require users to finally use a different editor, or at
22:42.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: least let them know that we're not maintaining it any more. i've included a
22:42.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: jove.emacs sample '.emacs' file that (supposedly, untested) provides jove
22:43.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: bindings within emacs that should help folks migrate. old habits die hard, but
22:43.32iandaletteraxissymmetry or axisymmetry?
22:43.58brlcadaxis of symmetry?
22:44.14brlcadwow, what an appropriate revision ID for that commit
22:44.51iandaletteryes, as "axisymmetry analysis"
22:45.23iandaletterthe word, its spelling - tell me, please...
22:45.38brlcad~spell axisymmetry
22:45.46brlcadbah
22:45.48brlcadaxisymmetry is right
22:46.04brlcadotherwise it's two words
22:46.14iandaletterok
22:46.35iandaletter~spell arquebus
22:47.14iandaletter~spell harquebus
22:47.29iandalettersorry
22:47.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32769 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/geometree/GeometryBrowser.tcl: add a method so we can toggle debugging on and off on the geometry browser
22:48.03brlcadarquebus
22:48.22brlcadi think ibot only knows m-w recognized words or something
23:01.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32770 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/geometree/GeometryBrowser.tcl: tighten the update hook to 3/6 seconds
23:06.02iandaletter~spell tensometer
23:31.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32771 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/geometree/GeometryBrowser.tcl: quote the debug
23:36.25iandaletter~spell automatization
23:42.02Ralithiandaletter: automation
23:56.00*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
23:56.55iandaletterthanks, and what is a word for that "shafts" in blooming, which (shaft) crushes the metal?
23:59.51iandalettercylinder... so trivial...
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080926

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080926

00:01.57*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
00:04.55brlcad:)
00:24.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32772 10/brlcad/trunk/COPYING: license specification
00:51.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32773 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/ (pixcut.c pixpaste.c): (log message trimmed)
00:51.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: these files are missing the standard copyright header for all contributions.
00:51.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: per the original brl-cad license agreement, all rights of use were granted to
00:51.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: the gov't when the code was provided so the sources are covered like everything
00:51.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: else in the package. (copyright was claimed and subsequently granted/assigned
00:51.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: to the gov't after a massive change to the collective work). this inconsistency
00:51.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: tweak is in response to the sf.net bug posting 2128053 (Copyright issue) by
00:53.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32774 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/ (pixcut.c pixpaste.c): adjust copyright claim to start from 2004
01:08.29yukonbobafternoon, cadheads
01:08.35brlcadhowdy bob
01:08.43yukonbobnods
01:08.50yukonbobgood day today, brlcad /
01:08.56yukonbobs/\//?/
01:09.43brlcadyeah, pretty good
01:09.54yukonbobnice to hear
02:00.37starseekerchecks in - power finally came back on in apartment
02:39.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32776 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/articles/ (6 files in 6 dirs): re-target image links
04:04.03brlcadstarseeker: eep
04:13.26*** join/#brlcad SilverBallz (n=hidden@35-12.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com)
05:24.26starseekerbrlcad:  what's wrong?
05:34.47brlcadstarseeker: you losing power?
05:37.48brlcadthat's all
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05:58.26yukonbobjust watched "King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters" -- fun.
05:59.08yukonbobhey pacman87 :)
06:06.12pacman87howdy yukonbob
06:06.44pacman87is learning javadoc style comments
06:07.21pacman87required for a lab i wrote two weeks ago (uncommented) that's due tomorrow
06:22.00yukonbobhehe
06:22.10*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
06:25.37brlcadyukonbob: hum, I heard that was pretty good actually
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07:01.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32777 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_scan.c: hum, yeah... that looks like a bug that daniel found in db_update_ident. that dbi_read_only check does not belong there (the check happens later during write). this should make it work for inmem db instances.
07:13.26*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:16.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32778 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_inmem.c: make dbi_read_only default to false for inmem objects for now until all of the routines that utilize it can rely on it behaving correctly (it should only prevent writing to disk (which inmems never do).
07:19.59d_rossbergbrlcad: are you really sure about the dbi_read_only flag?
07:20.21d_rossbergthe documentation says "read only file"
07:21.28d_rossbergtherefore all database functions refuse to change such a database
07:23.24d_rossbergi.e. version r32778 should be the solution because it is not a "read only file" and r32777 should be reverted
07:26.21d_rossbergbtw: it looks like the saved database title is wrong if you have a v5 database without a _GLOBAL object (see my example from the mailing list)
07:26.38brlcad32777 was a completely unnecessary check that was happening very prematurely -- it doesn't look right regardless of the default being 0 or 1
07:27.49brlcadthe key being "file" .. inmem's have no file so the intent at least was that it's non-existent file cannot be written to
07:27.55d_rossbergthis check is contained in every database changing function
07:27.57brlcadsince everything happens through the db_write layer
07:28.19brlcad12 functions
07:28.43brlcadthere are a lot more database-changing ones than that ;)
07:28.57brlcadat least indirectly
07:29.22d_rossbergthere are only a few low level ones (?)
07:30.00brlcadonly looks like there are 8 instances of db_write, so there should be at least 8 uses of dbi_read_only
07:30.08brlcadthat leaves 4 suspicious checks
07:30.59brlcadthat more than likely just crept in over the years or have never been exercised since inmems are only used in a really specific way by mged right now
07:33.37d_rossbergnevertheless you should test it with a real read-only file
07:33.53d_rossbergi'll do some checks with the inmem
07:34.30d_rossbergand publish my results in the C++ interface draft
07:34.43brlcadokay, excellent
07:34.55brlcadfeel free to fix librt if/when you find issues like that though
07:35.28brlcadthere's no sense in having a higher-level api or external code work around an issue when it can/should be fixed regardless
07:40.10d_rossberg:) first i have to understand the intention of inmem, thats why my question was "What's wrong with this code?"
07:40.51d_rossbergif the answer is "Nothing." i know there is a problem with librt etc. ;-)
07:41.23brlcad*nod*
07:41.57brlcadso next time I'll just say "nothing" and let you hunt for the bug for 9 hours ;)
07:47.58yukonbobbrlcad: re: KoK -- ya -- entertaining, for what it is...
07:48.05d_rossbergi'm grateful to you for your work on BRL-CAD but is wasn't my intention to put pressure on you
07:49.13brlcadd_rossberg: heh, no pressure! .. it was somewhat of a challenge
07:49.19yukonbobhas now finished "Slacker Uprising" and heads to sleep...
07:49.42brlcadit shouldn't have taken me that long to figure out what the hell was going on .. I just wasn't seeing it (or concentrating very well apparently)
08:04.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32779 10/rt^3/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): demonstration of an idea of how an application could work with BRL-CAD database files via an in-memory database
08:04.49brlcadd_rossberg: fyi, I replied to your message, but I've yet to receive the reply myself .. mail server might be stuck or something
08:20.32clock_brlcad: better than having to receive the original message yet, that would indicate serious problems with causality.
08:28.25Ralith"I've replied to your message, but I don't seem to have recieved it yet. Give the space-time continuum a minute to stabilize."
08:29.46clock_slaps his LCD and gives it a second to stabilize
08:57.05brlcadyep, but it's still not received and been a couple hours now
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11:15.51brlcadponders yawning
11:23.01Axman6brlcad: you should consider the consequences first
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11:35.06starseekerbrlcad: Ah. :-)
11:35.11starseekerwas afraid he borked the build.
11:35.26starseekerYeah, apparently someone didn't mark the lines correctly and a power line got chopped
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11:47.12brlcadfun
15:05.23*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
15:05.23*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || The 2008 Google Summer of Code is complete! -- Thanks deserved to all of our students! || (Source) Release 7.12.6 posted 2008-08-19 || Mailing lists are now reply-to-list instead of reply-to-sender by default
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15:35.50prasad_2kicks nickserv
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20:25.39claymoreburps.
21:04.08*** part/#brlcad iandalette1 (n=asus@217.118.79.39)
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22:32.40starseekerscowls at configure.ac - now it's giving me a false positive on finding fop
22:32.43starseekergrrrrrr
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080927

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080927

01:26.51``Erikyeah, your fop check crap is crap
01:27.06``ErikI mean, "is has it true? bc_lame_check=true" ... uh?
01:40.59*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
03:28.02brlcadlines up a couple dozen houses to check out tomorrow
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16:05.16iandaletterbrlcad: hi!
16:09.38starseeker``Erik: I'll rethink it when I have time (day or two) unless you feel like fixing it
16:10.11iandaletter``Erik: r u here right now?
16:10.37starseekerI'm responding to an earlier remark - I'm outta here about 10 minutes ago :-(
16:10.47iandaletterok
16:22.18*** part/#brlcad iandaletter (n=asus@217.118.79.35)
16:22.57brlcadstarseeker, next time you see him, ask him about translating the commands
16:23.16brlcadhe wants to help translate to french
16:23.35*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-82-250.dclient.hispeed.ch)
16:24.56brlcadnever mind, telling him now :)
20:39.58Twingybrlcad: I'm working on libnurbana right now, how far did jason get with nurbs?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20080928

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080928

03:11.42*** join/#brlcad alex_joni (n=juve@emc/board-of-directors/alexjoni)
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04:36.37yukonbobwow -- hope everybody is having a good weekend ;)
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10:23.48claymorestretches.
10:24.04claymoreGreat weekend.  The Amazing Race finally started.
10:25.55louipcGreat weekend. Had a wild party with a bunch of smoking hot women.
10:26.23claymoreAlways a plus.  Personally though, women who smoke turn me off majorly... ;)
10:26.43louipchahah
10:27.12claymorehows that Forum addage go.... "Pics or it didn't happen?"  yeah, thats it!
10:29.10louipcaw shucks I never carry a camera with me
10:32.01claymoreWell its just a saying.  As long as YOU remember what happened!  Thats the problem with the really GOOD parties, not many people remember what happened....
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12:45.27starseekeryawns and heads in
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14:04.58mafmhello
14:13.15clock_claymore: they can videotape it
14:32.10claymoreTrue, but those vids are a dime a dozen on youtube :/
14:43.02clock_how many $ is a dime?
14:43.07clock_and a nickel?
14:43.21claymoreDime = $0.10
14:43.28claymoreNickel = $0.05
14:46.22clock_do other coins have special names like these?
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14:51.46claymorePenny = $0.01, quarter = $0.25
14:54.00clock_is there a 0.02 and 0.50 coin?
14:54.27claymoreNo and yes, but the $0.50 is pretty rare and not very used.
15:00.40clock_so if you want to pay 0.04, you have to use 4 0.01 coins?
15:01.05claymoreyes.  But nothing costs 4 pennies. Not even 1 peice of bubblegum.
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15:05.10clock_1.04 then?
15:06.23claymoresure.
15:44.06``Erikheh
15:46.09``Erikmade his gf stop smoking, :/
15:46.56brlcadso you think
15:52.49``Erik no, she actually did, I don't hear the end of it.
15:53.37``Erikhttp://librivox.org fear
15:53.57claymoreShe is probably getting the best of both worlds... still smoking AND being able to give you shit.
15:54.06claymore..thinkabout it ;)
15:54.19``Eriksorry, my nose works... :D
15:54.38``Erikaint' exactly something that can be hidden
15:54.59claymoreah, I thunked you two had a few miles distance between yas.
15:55.53``Erika few, yes, but the two week visit vacations, hiding something like that would require siginificant downtime before and is just... not... doable... :D
15:56.15claymorethnx for the librivox link.  good stuff.
15:56.32claymoreI just started re'reading' the Dragonriders of Pern series again.
15:56.37``Erikcaught it off of the vlog of a webcomic artist, the chick who does 'devils panties'
15:57.08``Erikjennie beeden or something
15:57.23``Erikbreeden
15:58.03``Erikmy dad was a huge dragonriders of pern fan, he even bought the board game
15:58.24``ErikI never got into it
15:58.35claymorefound a dir of comics, many of which you would probably like: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/
15:59.03claymoreMy favorite is the first book (chronologically) of the series:  Dragons Dawn.
15:59.05``Erikheh, xkcd has been on my regular read list for years
15:59.20claymoreits about the inital colonization of the planet.
15:59.36``ErikI did some php hackery many many years ago, it currently lives at http://brlcad.org/~erik/comics/comic.php
15:59.58``Erikwhich is its third or fourth home O.o
16:00.11claymoreI remember the name, you mentioned it one time, but this is the entire archive... (I thinks)
16:00.14``Erikhosts come and go, but revision controlled code is forever
16:00.45claymoreI swear I heard a violin leading some epic music as you said that.
16:01.01``Erikyeh, usually, uh, when a comic makes it to that php script, it means I've gone back and read the ENTIRE archive
16:01.20``ErikI'm anal like that
16:01.44``Erikone does not just CLICK into mordor!!!
16:01.54claymoreSo does Sean always lurk or did i forget my deoderant today?
16:02.14claymorelol
16:02.18``Erikboth, I'd imagine
16:02.32claymore'Ba-doom ching!'
16:03.23``Eriknaw, deep irc geek culture involves reading a lot of backlog, having a semi-mystical ability to skip large chunks if it doesn't seem relevant, and conversations where responses might come a week after
16:03.42``Erikand a dozen simulanious conversations all being handled appropriately, if slowly
16:04.11claymorenewbie question: Is there a way for me to filter all the 'joined room' and 'left room' screen vomit?
16:04.24``Erikuhhhh, depends on the client? I d'no irssi myself
16:05.02``ErikBX recently added collapsing that, so if a netsplit happens, I see "17 people have left" instead of 17 lines of people leaving, or "netjoin, 34 people back" instead of 34 join lines
16:05.50claymoreBX = ?
16:05.56``ErikBitchX
16:06.06``ErikircII descendant, like EPIC
16:06.35claymorekk danke
16:06.51``Erikback in "the day", the two serious clients were BX or ircII/T|X
16:07.02``Erikand then there were the fucktards using winirc or mirc
16:07.28claymoreyou sound bitter
16:07.39``Eriktx was written by shaman, but he had a very classic ircII approach
16:07.40claymorewere you a fucktard?
16:07.49``Erikthe epic/BX approach was... niftier
16:08.07``Erikyes :D I used winirc first, then later moved to mirc... then bitchx, tried ircII, irssi, etc...
16:08.29``Erikbx is still a solid win for me, I'm the old guy it the rocking chair shakin' my cane from the porch
16:08.34claymoreNIFTI = Naval Infrared Firefighting Thermal Imager
16:09.16``ErikI made a bad hit in ae. now I'm looking at edge targets and getting all pussified out.
16:09.18``Erik:(
16:09.43claymore</topic> You should read some of the threads in the AE-Artwork forum.... omg.  id10ts, all of em.  Well except maybe one or two.
16:09.52claymoremake more fleet.
16:09.59claymorethats all I had time for this weekend.
16:10.12``ErikI'm building, the queues stay full, but, dude, it takes a week to ship 'em to the hot spot
16:10.15claymoreCooked up another 200k, fresh from the oven.
16:10.33claymoreThere will always be more targets....
16:10.47``ErikI'm tempted to just kamikaze crap to burn off my fleet in 32 so I can be excused
16:11.21claymoreI AM pretty upset about sitting my fleet in33 for 2 weeks awaiting this EPIC mission we are going on.... only to be told its a farming run of hte 30's
16:11.29``ErikI still wear the student moniker, so I imagine I'm permitted a fair bit of leeway
16:11.32claymorelol you too?  hahaha
16:12.14``Erikcompared to the guys who've been dropped, I've been highly active and seem to be on the curve well enough
16:12.16claymoreI am planning on just hitting a bunch of targets, making it as profitable as possible.  But just keep going and going until I have nothing left in the lower 30s
16:12.21``Erikthey dont' think I need a mentor
16:12.39claymoreHey, that b3n_k1ng fool has ALL of his bases in 37.
16:12.45claymoreshitty defences too.
16:12.50``Erikyeah, I'm at the point where I don't even care about profit, really... it'd be nice, but *shrug*
16:13.10``ErikI won't hit a former guildie.
16:13.40claymoreThats my normal motto... but man... this guy... logs on once every 5-6 days and only builds JGs and tech....
16:13.44``Erikit's a low blow, having someone expose their tech and locations, then booting and romping them, it just ain't cool
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16:13.57``ErikI'll give him a week or two
16:14.10claymoreWell, I knew where he was for a long time before he posted all his locs.
16:14.21``Erikthe savage boot&farm approach is uncool with me
16:14.40claymorewe 'grew up' togther.  *snif* now I have to destroy his ass :)
16:14.46claymoreAgreed.
16:14.57``Erikif EM comes back, I'll go there in a heartbeat, for a more civil nicer approach
16:14.57claymoreYoda seems to be quite eager to do it though.
16:15.22``Erikyeah, fates culture is one of bullying and smashing everything around
16:15.26claymoreOh yeah, forgot about the EM Redeux idea. Hear anythign form hellbent on that?
16:15.31``Eriknope
16:15.34claymorebah.
16:15.55claymoreWhats worse is that the game mechanics lend itself to Fate's play style.
16:16.11claymoreSomething to keep in mind as I build my own game....;)
16:16.26claymoreAnyone play 'Sins of a Solar Empire' ?
16:16.30``Erikyeah... I still hold myself to classic EM rules... if I romp a base, once I get the derbz, I leave a single fighter and don't mind them freeing themselves
16:16.51``Erikand I'm slow to hit tr's (though I've been ruthless on night)
16:17.44claymorewhats up with the TR pillage rampage?  I lost 7 over the weekend.
16:17.52``Erikfrom who?
16:18.36``ErikI've been moving a single recycler to a base and doing the tr's with that for these night targets... they hold no fleet over their bases, so *shrug* why not?
16:18.54``Erikseriously, dude, I am plundering rt's with single recyclers. :D how awesome is that?
16:18.59``Eriktr's
16:21.19claymorelol Garbage Men Strike Back.
16:21.20claymoreNice.
16:21.37claymoreThis down in 33/32?
16:21.54``ErikI've been engaging in 32
16:22.57claymorekewl.  I moved my fleet in 32 once, then logged right off.  Had a hutch to build.
16:23.15claymoreI'll admit, the playability of AE is begining to wear thin.
16:23.34claymoreI am only lvl 35 and I am close enough to Endgame that its borderline boring.
16:24.08``Erikyeah, see, here I've found 5 more of this madhatter dudes astros
16:24.15``Erikno fleet.
16:24.27``ErikI'm gonna go scout tap piracy on his ass
16:25.48claymoreare there level restrictions on TR piracy?
16:26.54``ErikI'm sure
16:27.36``Erikat this point, I'm just looking to insult, though :D
16:27.58claymorewhat reg are you in?
16:28.14``Erikmostly 32:4
16:28.16``Erik46
16:28.33claymoreah, you went west.. i went east.
16:28.36claymore48 sucks.
16:28.50``ErikI sent scouts out to 4 regions
16:29.00``Erikthis one seemed the juiciest, so I've been ignoring the others
16:29.38claymoresassy.
16:29.56claymoreso how was yoru weekend?
16:30.12``Erikseems to me that the weak players will try to collet at the center of a galaxy, to hav e'friends' close
16:30.35``Erikmeh, was a weekend... friday morning, I woke up, sat at the lappy in the kitchen, vomited in the coffee mug and called in.
16:30.55``Erikstill doing weekend, since it's my rdo
16:31.29``Erikfar too much paperwork to do when I get in tomorrow :(
16:31.39claymoreWell I figured.  Sucks about the decaf vomit though...
16:31.48claymoreHardcopy?  Ewww?  Why?
16:31.55``Erikuhm, eval shit
16:32.06claymoreoh yeah, that.
16:32.07``ErikI havne't worked that since the darth wendy departure
16:32.12claymorelol
16:32.48claymoreShe got a job with the Emperor down at the Death Star... nice.
16:32.48``Erikit's really sad, she doesn't mean ill will, she is just not wired to deal with the CS type folk
16:33.16claymoreWell then, who is she wired to deal with... and would you want to meet those people?
16:34.11``ErikI have no interest in those folk, but I believe she does have a viable role as an xo in a fomulaic setting.
16:35.26``Erikwere I running a ship and needed someone to go rabid dog on details where versatility and imagination were a bad thing, someone like wendy would be a solid choice
16:36.52claymoreSo team lead for the Morale Supression Team eh?
16:37.05claymore'The beatings will continue until Morale improves'
16:37.11``Erikdepends on the teams goal
16:37.50``Eriksomethere where creative thought is involved and rules are an obstacle, ... she is not appropriate. :)
16:38.00claymorelol.
16:38.25claymorethe Eng on my last ship would have hated her.  lol.
16:38.37``ErikI think there are environments where free thinking may be a hinderance, and she may be appropriate
16:39.18``ErikI thought she was completely inappropriate as a bc over a SE team, don't get me wrong
16:39.50``Erikbut I don't think she was intentionally evil, I don't think she is without utility... was just the wrong place to stick her
16:40.08claymoreHe came into Maneuvering to order the Reactor and ER shutdown for port call in Port Canveral FL: "Ensign, the bars open in 45 minutes.  A procedural Shutdown takes 2 hours.  You have senior watchstanders on watch and I need a drink.  Do you understand me?"
16:40.46claymoreWe went from the Reactor Critical and steaming to shutdown/cold iron in 27 minutes. :)
16:41.07``Eriknever fuck with a captains drinkin' schedule.
16:41.09``Erik:D
16:41.53claymorewell it was the Eng... the CO would have pooped golden bricks if he knew what we did.  I swear the ER looked like we just ruptured a Steam Line.  Visibility was at 1m at best. :)
16:42.40claymoreMe, being rather new at the time, was scare shitless but was told to "sit back and watch" by the senior Electricians.
16:43.45claymoreFun stuff watching a cloud steam blow into maneuvering all the while hearing shouts of laughter from the Engineroom
16:43.48``ErikI d'no, I grew up on navy bases, did njrotc for a while, have worked under a significant range of bosses... a lot of 'em suck, most don't mean to suck, maybe I'm too forgiving in my old age
16:44.40claymorePerhaps.  There are some genuine idiots out there, they just don't know it.
16:45.03``ErikI think lisa grok'd that she was outclassed and tried to do right, I think wendy was too concerned with looking good and fucked shit up for that, I think steph just wants shit done and doesn't understand what people are telling her
16:45.15brlcadclaymore: xkcd is a staple of comic geekdom, I'm a little surprised you've just run across it :)
16:45.33``ErikI think drew is too damn scared about being blamed, I've called them the kindergarden crowd to bobs face
16:45.38brlcadnext you'll be saying you've never head of user friendly
16:45.52``ErikI think paul is too damn scared of being beaten on to do anything
16:46.04claymorebrlcad: Whats your nick all about?
16:46.06brlcadalways lurks
16:46.38claymorelol.... kindergarden crowd.
16:46.53``ErikI think when mike hiked up to deleware for school, he made a damn brilliant choice
16:47.19claymorebrlcad: never really was into comics outside of the Far Side, so online comics are only about 3 years old to me.
16:47.30``ErikI think when justin jumped to drews team and started the georgia tech thing, he blundered into a brilliant decision
16:47.44claymoreand yes I have heard of User Friendly.  There is one glued to the door of the mens bathroom at work.
16:47.56brlcadcatches up
16:48.17brlcadclaymore: which nick?
16:48.33claymorebad attempt at sarcasm on my part.  nm.
16:49.02claymoreI thought Justin was out on the island working with robotics/embeded stuff?
16:49.12brlcadhe is
16:49.44``Erikyeah, uh, drew W was doing robotics under wmrd and moved to vtd, taking his team with him
16:49.53claymoreon THAT Drew.
16:50.03claymoreI thought you ment F-ing Drew F
16:50.04``Erikjustin doing aviotion and jason doing ground
16:50.07``Erikno
16:50.20``Eriknot drew f, tha'ts lee's burden, justin is with drew w
16:50.29claymore*confusing*
16:50.35claymoreI hate even pseudo politics
16:50.57``Erikamusingly, I met drew w well before justin moved over, in a social context
16:51.02claymoreoh yeah, Heroes is on tonight... don't miss it this time S ;)
16:51.04``Erikhe fly's at sandy hook
16:51.38claymoreSandy's my wife's name.  What the hell is he doing with her hook.
16:51.43``ErikI was watching him do inverted helicoptor tricks before I cut my finger off
16:51.46brlcadclaymore: yeah, I know
16:51.49``Erikwell
16:51.51``Erikdave
16:51.54claymore:)
16:51.55``Erikwe like your wifes hook
16:51.57``Erika lot
16:51.59``Erik...
16:52.11claymoreit IS rather nice ....
16:52.13brlcadclaymore: hit ctrl-n a couple times
16:53.02claymoreoh, so thats what that means. lol
16:53.14claymoreMy life's on the net anyways, so I 'm not scared.
16:53.18brlcadprivate messages and other channels
16:53.45brlcadthose are your "windows"
16:54.01claymoreYes, when it comes to the l33t things you guys do, i am still driving my Big Wheel. So be patient.
16:54.14``Erikoh my, this madhatter boy seems to want a fight
16:54.45claymorelol what did he do now?
16:55.06``Erikhe raped my cyclers
16:55.17claymorelooks like vice versa actually
16:55.38claymorehis vettes got trashed by your cyclers lol
16:55.49``Erikno, I hit his 2 credit tr's... that's all I did to him
16:55.57claymore...so... is that 'trashcan rape' ??
16:56.08``Erikhe went up on my cyclers, now he gets to feel it
16:57.29claymoreNew definition of funny:  Watching an ide freakout because you accidentally forgot to switch windows back to the IRC channel...lol
17:00.32claymoreGood pool from the forums:  What Scifi uni has the best ships?  BSG, Stargate, bab5, starcraft, starwars, startrek, EvE, Homeworld....
17:00.52claymorepool = poll for illiterate clods like me.
17:02.19claymoreSo how are things up in E59?
17:37.40brlcadsomewhere between stargate and startrek me thinks .. starwars units are mostly unshielded or easily unshielded, the death star would be shredded by an asgard or ori beam
17:38.37claymoreThe death star has always stuck me as a 'compensation ship' much like those oversized F-350's with 35" tires and a 40" lift kit.
17:38.38brlcadnow a borg ship would be an intersting fight
17:39.20claymoreThe poll was actually quite intersting... most people based their choice on looks, but a few on functionality.. thus a decent arguement broke out.
17:39.23brlcadbsg ships are just weak
17:39.33mafmFirefly has the best ships
17:39.50mafmone of them as a intergalactic companion ship, with hookers
17:39.56brlcadff's were fun but also "weak" ;)
17:40.00claymoreI was pretty dissapointed wiht the New BSG... they used Missles and Projectile rounds... thats borderline lame!
17:40.33claymoreI like the design of FF ships... they feel real and look functional.
17:40.42brlcadsg is the one that takes it way over the top in terms of power and realism, making for some impressively powerful toys
17:40.49mafmbrlcad: that's a superficial look on the matter, I look at the content of the ships
17:41.12claymoreI also like the way *some* of the BSG ships looked.  Viper = stupid, but the Raptor... that looks like something us humans just might build...
17:41.46brlcadmafm: depends what was meant by "best" in that poll -- I took it to mean best at kicking the other ship option's asses ;)
17:41.51brlcadnot best resort
17:42.03mafmotoh I haven-t seen any of those, except for Star Trek and Wars (and played Starcraft, but I'm not aware of movies yet)
17:42.14claymoreThe problem with SG(and the cool thing too) is that its soooo far abstracted from believable that its just plain fun.
17:43.15brlcadliked farscape's moya
17:44.35claymoreneat link: www.merzo.net/
17:47.39claymorebrlcad: don't forget to level the playing field  Asgard ship Vs Cylon ship is apples and oranges.  If there were someway measure and compare the universes...
17:49.27brlcadlevel the playing field?
17:49.55brlcadisn't that the point of the comparison? :-)  given the physics and powers involved, if you mixed them all together .. asgards would kick cylon ass :)
17:50.24brlcadHm, T????s???ss??
17:50.32brlcadbahh, no unicode
17:50.42claymoreWell, Humans vs cylons in the BSG uni compared to Humans vs Asgard in the SG uni... different 'humans', or level of tech.
17:51.04claymorePerhaps, 'Normalize the Human variable' is a good way to put it.
17:51.28mafmÜnìcõdê FTW
17:55.44claymoreI don't speak unicode... what was that again?
17:55.45mafmStargate is the one with egypcian themes?
17:55.50brlcadsometimes
17:56.10mafmclaymore: mine is Unicode with different accents
17:56.20brlcadstarted with that, they started diverging from the egyptian theme after about 7 years when they ran out of material :)
17:56.35mafmclaymore: just to annoy brlcad ;)
17:56.46claymorenice.
17:56.55mafmI think that I only saw the movie(s), not the series
17:57.01mafmI don't have time for series :)
17:57.09claymoreStargate got caughtup in the 'Need a bigger/badder advisary spiral'
17:57.10mafmlast was Firefly btw
17:57.26claymoreGood series :)
17:58.53mafmwell, if you don't count Flying Circus
17:58.53claymoreI honestly hate it when a good series goes town the tubes because they run thin on material.
17:59.01claymoreSpam?
17:59.11mafmthe whole series
17:59.20mafm40 chapters or so
17:59.33claymorelordy.  Got time on your hands or something?
17:59.36mafmbut yep, Spam is in there
17:59.56starseekerlikes Dahak - needs to become a movie
18:00.10brlcadclaymore: hum, I thought SG actually got much better as they ran out of egyptian material
18:00.23mafmwell, I don't have TV since 2 years ago, and don't watch it regularly since 5 or so -- and last time I got some time in the evenings, yep
18:00.26brlcadthat latter 5 years have been much better than the first 5 imho
18:00.42brlcadthe new atlantis one is still under .. evaluation
18:01.01brlcadsome good/great, some needing work
18:01.28claymoreWell SG did get better when the diversified out from the Egyptian themes, but, imo, they kept introducing new Bigger/Badder races to offset the last Big/Bad race they introduced...
18:01.50claymoreAtlantis is *braces* my current fav (Save FF ofcourse).
18:02.37starseeker``Erik:  If you're around, some autoconf advice would be much appreciated
18:02.39claymoreAtlantis has very solid characters and a good plot line.  Addmittedly, the plot is wavering a little in seasons 3-4
18:03.02claymoreits always a bad sign when they start killing off major characters...
18:03.22claymorejust like its a bad sign when they keep introducing new bigger badder races :)
18:05.07brlcadyeah, but that's also some of the best shows too :)
18:05.22brlcadlike the latest power beasts from last friday... good stuff :)
18:05.58claymoreAre you talking Atlantis?  I am 1 season behind current on that one.  I wait for the Dvds :)
18:06.03brlcadgotta get yer butt kicked with nearly zero-effort from time to time
18:06.11brlcadooooh
18:06.25brlcadheh, then I shall try to say no more (no promises)
18:06.32brlcadpretty cool though (so far)
18:07.06claymorelol.  thats my favorite formula for a plot line:  HUman race getting whooped up on.  Matrix, Terminator, S:AB... many many movies/series fit that bill.
18:07.28claymoreBest part about Atlantis:  They have Kaylee :)
18:09.12brlcadtayla's more my taste :)
18:09.19claymoreOh, does anyone have any news on the FireFly MMO?
18:09.40claymoreAgreed, but Inara >> all.  She just didn't make it to Atlantis... :(
18:10.08brlcadat least not yet
18:10.29brlcadthey left the option open for her to do anything after she ascended
18:10.49claymoreher = teyla?
18:12.08brlcadher = inara
18:12.47brlcadAdria
18:13.21claymorelol, i totaly forgot she's in the SG uni also.  lol.  My life is now complete.
18:24.20claymorePreference Question:  What do you prefer, FPS or RTS games?
18:25.49brlcadadventure
18:26.10claymoreCite example...
18:26.59mafmnethack?
18:27.47brlcadQuest for Glory, Space Quest, King's Quest, old infocom games, The Longest Journey, Kyrandia, etc ...
18:28.08claymoreNot many modern games do it for you then eh?
18:28.22brlcad"it depends"
18:28.38brlcadbut yeah, most of the modern FPS don't do it for me at all
18:28.50brlcadThe Longest Journey is modern
18:29.16brlcadthere are a couple other modern adventures.. there are usually one or two exceptional ones every other year or so
18:29.35claymore...perchance a Final Fantasy fan?
18:33.37brlcadnever really played it
18:34.07claymore;) they are a series of games...12 or 13 now I think lol.
18:34.39brlcadyeah, I know -- I used to follow the game, just never played it
18:34.47brlcadmore of an RPG ala Ultima
18:34.50claymoreThe longest Journey... that sounds familiar.  Is it puzzle based?
18:35.08brlcadpuzzle-based? mmm.. not exactly
18:35.22brlcadit's an adventure, so there are naturally puzzles and mysteries in the game
18:35.29brlcadbut I wouldn't say it's "puzzle based"
18:36.09claymoreScreenies look cool.  Good  100% puzzle based gmaes like the Myst series piss me off after a while.  especially after I waste hours on something that turns out to be obvious.  grrrr.
18:38.38brlcadthe artwork is gorgeous
18:38.52brlcadscreenshots on their site don't do it full justice either
18:39.17claymoreIt looks like a 2D/3D hybrid...
18:39.37brlcadmost adventures are
18:43.09claymore..Bummer, the Bailout bill was reject by the House.  Dow is down by 700 points.... not good.  not good.
18:47.56brlcadwhich makes me buying a place right now either really really good or potentially really bad :)
18:48.40claymoreJust wait for the housing market to crash a bit more, then buy in nice and cheap.
18:48.59claymoreSo have you decided on whether you plan on renting or buying?
18:49.02brlcadit could keep crashing for another year
18:49.07brlcadhousing-wise
18:49.41claymoreSure could, but its just like any other investment.. buy low, but no one knows when the negative peak will be.
18:49.56brlcadit's been tanking for about 9 months now
18:50.33brlcadtrue, so I might not optimize the return, but it would/should still be a good deal unless it tanks for like 2-3 years
18:50.40brlcadthen i'm just joining in on the fun
18:51.35claymoreWell, unless this is the Big Crash that is goung to take down our country, the economy will heal and, given time, will turn any real-estate investment profitable.
18:52.13claymoreAs long as someone doesnt buy low and sell lower, it shouldn't really affect them.
18:52.28brlcadyeah, I just don't necessarily want to *have* to wait 10 years for a healing :)
18:53.19claymoreWell with BRAC happening, certain areas will be Residential Real-Estate investment heaven.
18:54.17brlcadyeah, and I think of the areas being worked .. the places I'm looking at are likely to recover quickly (they've barely dropped as it is compared to some places)
18:54.33brlcadi'm still keeping my options open though, have to find the "right place"
18:54.59claymoreBah, find a fixer and flip it when the market turns :)
18:57.34claymoreI hear Dundalk is nice this time of year.  *snicker*
18:57.40brlcadneat, autodesk is sueing solidworks
18:59.59claymoreCan't find the article.  Linkage?
19:00.15brlcadbuys a glacial against all the advice to the contrary
19:01.17brlcadhttp://www.autodesk.com/us/solidworks/Document.pdf
19:01.44brlcadit's the same deal as autodesk suing the open alliance
19:01.52brlcadusage/representation of "DWG"
19:02.02brlcadand a few more things for solidworks
19:03.23claymoreThis reads like someone stamping their feet and pouting...
19:05.19starseekerbrlcad:  OK, help.  Where's a good configure.ac example of nested enabling?  (e.g. if docs enabled, if pdf tool found, enable pdf tool style logic)
19:05.28brlcadstarseeker: heh
19:05.35brlcadi'm already working on that
19:05.48brlcadbuild failures necessitated some hackage
19:05.54starseekerthought this would be so easy...
19:06.18brlcadyou had a handful of things 'quirky', couple things wrong
19:06.28starseekersorry :-(
19:07.00claymoreEase up on himbrlcad, geez!
19:07.00brlcadwhy is pdf generation separate
19:07.08claymore;)
19:07.15starseekerdeserves it
19:07.25brlcadthat's not being hard on him .. :)
19:07.47claymorethinks sarcasm is harder to relay in irc....
19:08.07starseekershould have had this figured out in an evening
19:08.16claymoreIf you deserved it, lightening from upon high would have already visited you :)
19:08.27claymorecan't spel.
19:08.39brlcadstarseeker: what's the pdf generation separated out?
19:08.48starseekerwhy you mean?
19:08.49brlcaddoes it make it take hours longer or something?
19:08.57brlcadwhy is there a docs and a pdf docs option
19:09.00starseekerit might with the full doc build
19:09.05brlcadinstead of just a doc option
19:09.13starseekerit's at least 2x longer than html or man
19:10.02starseekerwe can go for a docs on/off option if you prefer - I was just trying to be polite if someone wanted docs but not a prolonged pdf  build
19:10.12brlcadI could easily see saying that that is just how long it takes to generate the output formats
19:10.35starseeker<grin> That might make the docbook option look less attractive in some eyes ;-).
19:11.47starseekerBut regardless, I'd like it to at least give me man/html if fop isn't present
19:11.47brlcadi mean even if it saves them an hour building pdf docs .. that means the configure, compile, and install probably is going to take them more than an hour regardless .. so the savings is really minimal
19:11.47starseekerTrue
19:11.51brlcadsure, you can still make it autodetect and behave accordingly for a minimal set of docs or something
19:12.55brlcadI just think from an outside user's perspective, we should be giving them all of our docs in all the formats we want to provide
19:13.54brlcaddunno, maybe I just need to feel the pain for a while like you have been doing
19:14.22brlcadbut I would start simple regardless before trying to sort out the logic for both
19:15.58starseekerOK, I'll see if I can simplify
19:17.05starseekerIf an AC_PATH_PROG doesn't find anything (say, for XSLTPROC) can I spot that in a Makefile.am with an "if !XSLTPROC"
19:17.22brlcadwhich is sort of where my commit was going to take it
19:17.45brlcadif you can give me a couple min, it might at least push things down the path
19:18.12starseekerk, thanks :-)
19:23.42claymoreare you done talking about that work stuff yet?
19:30.01brlcadwasn't talking about work
19:30.03brlcadtis my hobby
19:30.57``Erikholy fucking shit, you guys talk way too much
19:31.12mafmlol
19:31.17brlcadand you drink too much, it all balances out
19:31.25claymorelol
19:33.55``Erikstargate started off immensly awesome when the gould were posed as a terrifying race. it quickly lost that, though :(
19:35.26``Erik<-- flips brlcad off
19:38.18claymorethats not very nice.
19:38.58claymoretakes an ACME anvil and drops it off a 105 story building, hitting ``erik on the head.. Meep Meep.
19:39.22``ErikI, uh, honestly can't recall ever claiming I was nice... :D
19:39.51``Erikin fact, I believe, I've claimed otherwise on several occasions
19:39.53claymoreWell, how much DO you actually recall?
19:40.10``Erikalrighty then
19:40.14``Erikflips claymore off, too
19:40.17``Erik:D
19:40.19claymorelol
19:40.27claymorefeels accepted
19:40.39``ErikI'm literally laughing my ass off here
19:41.24brlcadalcoholic mood swings will do that
19:41.26claymoretake pictures.  I have never seen someone's ass fall off.
19:41.48brlcaddoesn't want to see pictures of erik's ass even if it is falling off
19:42.01``Erikfor some reason, I can't get tegan and sara out of my head
19:42.09``Erikand, uh, burly, fuck off :D
19:43.33claymoretegan & sara?  Who Dat?
19:44.08brlcadmhmm, striving to be a sailor today?
19:44.22``Erikband outta cankcia
19:44.37``Erikhit youtube and listen, uh
19:44.45``Erik"walking with a ghost" was one of their bigger ones
19:46.22claymoreeh, mute'n'watch video.... perhaps I will try another.
19:46.45brlcadyou can pull a stream on last.fm
19:47.46claymoreeh, from what I have seen so far, I think I might pass on that.
19:48.12``Erikthey aint' pretty, but they have a fun groove
19:48.44claymoreI am getting a serious 'cranberries' vibe form them.... I don't know how i feel about that...
19:49.09``Erikhrm, I d'no, I never got into cranberries, but I enjoy these kids
19:49.34``Eriknot sure if I can make a statement of correlation and difference
19:49.50claymorehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyp5we2ySDo
19:49.55claymorecranberries.
19:50.27``Erikyeh, I rememeber that song
19:50.38``Eriknot the same
19:50.59claymoremusic, no.  Voices are close imo.
19:51.23``ErikI'd disagree, and the focus is radically different
19:51.47``Erikcranberries are very political in a u2 sorta way, tegan and sara is more.. kinda goofy fun punk
19:52.23claymorethere was a nother song (that I can't remember the name of) that the canberries did.  That 'walking wiht a ghost' song sounded so much like them that I thought they were a tribute band.  Need to look i tup.
19:53.03``Erik*shrug*
19:53.39claymoreeither way, i can take about 3-4 mins of those kinda voices before it gets to me :)
19:54.34``Erikyeh, I agree, neither band has the hours on end listenabilty of AiC or those
19:54.46claymoreAiC =  ?
19:54.55``Erikalice in chains
19:55.02claymoreah, agreed then.
19:55.26``Eriklayne has a zomfg vocal ability that I think has never been equaled
19:55.28claymoreI have been spining Ride the Lighting recently... forgot ho wmuch lik like the earlier albums
19:55.30``Erikhad
19:55.57``Erikmeh, metallica was decent in the day, it really felt like cliff was the carrying factor, though
19:56.03mafmheading home
19:56.41claymoreTrue, he was a major loss.  As retarded as he is in real life, kirk is a damn good guitarist.
19:56.47``ErikI mean, the first 3 albums... awesome as shit... cliff died, 'and justice for all' was, well, weak, and the stuff after was shit
19:56.53claymoreThe same could be said for lars.
19:57.00starseekerI died?
19:57.15claymoreDidn you get that memo?
19:57.17``Erikno, dude, the awesome cliff, not you
19:57.21``Erik:D
19:57.34claymoreYou failed to turn in your TPS reports and were thus killed.
19:57.48starseekerTPS?
19:57.56``Erikcliff burton
19:58.13claymorehas never been in a workplace so devoid of Office Space knowledge...
19:58.30``Erikuh,yeah, . .. uh...
19:58.47``Erikwe might need to fire starseeker
19:59.00claymoreWell, I am out.  Gotta meeting with the Bob's.  Cya
19:59.05``Erikm3 did tps reports for a couple years
19:59.09*** join/#brlcad iandaletter (n=asus@217.118.79.35)
20:03.26starseeker``Erik: Sorry, distracted - was having a conversation with Mike
20:07.53``Erikheh
20:58.09iandaletterwhere can i see examples of docbook?
20:59.38PrezKennedyim thinking about buying stock in apple
21:00.16iandaletterdoc/docbook in source tree - can not find source tree,
21:06.03iandaletterPrezKennedy: i'm about to marry your doughter... that younger one...
21:06.33PrezKennedyjokes on you if she told you shes related to me
21:06.36PrezKennedyi have no kids
21:08.09iandaletterno, you have!
21:08.20iandaletterfrom Monica!
21:09.19iandaletterPrezKennedy: do you know english quite well?
21:09.43PrezKennedyNein ich sprechen sie Deutsch.
21:09.52PrezKennedy:)
21:09.58iandaletterWhat is right to say: "I was" or "Iwere"?
21:10.01iandaletteri were
21:10.17PrezKennedyi was
21:10.17iandaletterhe/she/it V-s
21:10.29iandaletterand i/we V?
21:10.42iandaletterwhy?
21:10.43PrezKennedyI was/We were
21:11.25iandaletteri was... no. "we were" and "i were", too
21:12.18PrezKennedyI were is not correct
21:12.25iandaletterok...
21:12.29iandaletterthanks
21:12.41PrezKennedywere is for plural
21:13.32iandaletteryes, but "he goes" and "I go"... I + V. not I + V-s, right?
21:14.22iandaletterPrezKennedy: can you change the grammar laws? at least until this year?
21:15.04PrezKennedyit would be even better to say "He is going" and "I am going"
21:15.58iandaletterok, but not when we say about regular events
21:16.05*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
21:16.28iandaletterok, i just have some white or black spots in my grammar book
21:16.44iandaletter...in my grammar.
21:16.58PrezKennedygrammar isnt fun... im terrible with german grammar
21:17.46iandaletterbut it is considered to be relatively easy... I want to know it, too - but have no time for this...
21:18.34iandaletterthere's a link at second entry to German grammar at my http://pastime-one.livejournal.com/
22:23.23starseekerbrlcad:  Did you decide on a good configure setup?
22:32.32iandaletterstarseeker: so, DocBook is an .xml...
22:34.24iandaletterhow about that samples... fr, de, it, pe, sp are bad though... incorrect words... but teasing for those knowing these languages
22:34.58starseekeriandaletter:  Haven't had a chance to look yet - slamming through some paperwork right now :-(
22:35.08starseekeriandaletter:  Yes, docbook is xml based
22:35.31starseekerdoc/docbook is a subdirectory in the current subversion repository for BRL-CAD
22:35.46iandaletterand what about e.g. the biggest section, mged's commands?
22:36.03iandaletterok, gimmme a alink
22:36.19starseekerThere's a reworking of the documentation for MGED's commands in the works - one docbook man page per command
22:36.25starseekerhang on, getting link
22:37.28iandaletterok, and what can you say about the translation I've supplied to my letter?
22:37.39starseekerhttp://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/
22:41.15starseekerI don't think we want to have all languages present in one document.  For the case of MGED commands, it may be possible to have a language variable that points the help commands to a specific subdirectory
22:41.44starseekerbrlcad and I were discussing how to set things up for translations a while back - I don't think we had reached a definite decision as yet
22:43.52*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
22:44.43starseekerbrlcad:  What's our position on automatic translations?  I'm thinking we probably need human verification of correctness at a minimum before they're accepted into the tree
22:48.47iandaletterthe main point of translation:
22:49.20iandaletter1. English is the main since program is English
22:51.04iandaletter2. English words are quite easy to understand, so translations are... just partial, a main explanation - just as I've done. Rather a way to... well, i don't know...
22:51.27starseekerwe're very much in favor of translations
22:51.43starseekerthe question is how to structure their storage in the svn repository, and how to handle quality assurance
22:51.46iandaletterok, but it can be included - since it is an open source (point 1)
22:51.53iandaletterand (point 2):
22:52.17iandalettersomeone can easily edit it, since it is already formatted into the book
22:52.50iandaletterstarseeker: e.g. old mged_cmd_index.html
22:54.14iandalettercommand, then wide description on each language - then options, described on english - since interface and everything is English, and it is relatively easy to know English words worldwide
22:56.10starseekeriandaletter:  Are you talking about where to store the translations?
22:57.49iandaletteryes, and at the same time - how to offer to someone, e.g. french, to vise the automatic translation - whilst he study commands
22:58.04iandaletteryes, where to store?
22:58.21starseekerWe're planning to make all the docbook documentation editable through a wiki-style interface in Drupal (our user website)
22:58.39iandaletteri would do it as "addition" to english description
22:59.47starseekerI would prefer not to mix languages in individual files.  For one thing, the file timestamps are an excellent way of keeping track of what has recently changed and which translations are not up to date.  For another, it makes processing the docs into one-language files for output more difficult
22:59.53starseekerI have another idea, however
23:00.03starseekerThere is an ability in DocBook called XInclude
23:00.58starseekerIt allows Docbook files to include parts of other files automatically.  For translation files, we can "include" the main (English) version of the file in the translation
23:00.59iandaletterwell, don't know what drupal is, but as long as we edit it - why don't offer a bit funny automatic translation? Shall be included... It's not hard.
23:01.32starseekerThere may be licensing restrictions on the automatic output of a translation program - what does the license say?
23:02.08starseekerFor translated files, once the translation of the original file becomes complete the original included English version can be removed.
23:02.33iandaletterI don't really know much in coding pages, though. Ok, then e,g, /.../mged/3ptarb8.xml on english, and "additions" to it on fr, de, and so on?
23:03.29iandaletterEasyTranslatorDelux 4 for windows (through wine under linux Ubuntu 8.04)
23:03.35iandaletterwait...
23:04.35starseekerI was thinking docbook/en/mged/3ptarb8.xml and docbook/ru/mged/3ptarb8.xml with the russion version XIncluding the english version until complete.
23:04.45starseekerbut that's what I need to discuss with brlcad
23:05.45iandaletterok, looks good - but! you shall know
23:06.11iandaletterpeople do not like to see tricky translations...
23:06.26starseekertricky in what sense?
23:06.42iandaletteren, then the variaNT ON another language - that's the way
23:06.55iandaletterwhen someone download it
23:07.10iandalettere.g. en variant - it is only english,
23:07.34starseekerOh, you mean not making it clear en is the main language?
23:08.04iandaletterwhen someone downloads e.g. russian variant - it is english + partially russian variant, where "russian" is e.g. a wide description, whil
23:08.33iandaletter...while e.g. options are wrote still on english
23:09.10starseekerThe goal would be to gradually have the ru docs become fully Russian
23:10.21iandaletterwell, just.. ""100% english + 60% russian"" - as a recipe of russian version, or any another language... it is hard to translate... interface of the program remains english, since program was developed as english - and this is a main point
23:10.41iandaletterok, can i send you file?
23:10.45iandaletterexample?
23:11.10starseekerSure
23:11.28starseekerHowever, the ability to have the interface of the program itself translated would also be of interest
23:12.11iandaletterno, your last comment is potentially wrong!
23:12.52iandalettermistakes and hard-spelling - this is what it is. My friends hate translated interfaces
23:13.21iandalettersome words have no place to be fit into the menu...
23:15.15iandaletter"translated" means usually "cumbersome" - while people able and really know ebglish quite well, even at school
23:15.52starseekerWell, I suppose that depends on the quality of the translation - I wouldn't expect that I could sit down with an English-*Language* dictionary and make a good interface translation
23:17.29iandaletterok, i send you: first command represent version 1 of translation
23:18.17iandaletterand second command 3ptarb - version 2 of translation
23:19.23iandaletterif we will have translated both options in manual and command promt in the program, it would be probably right - and we can do it
23:19.41louipcwow lots of chit chat
23:20.36iandaletterlouipc: what do you think?
23:21.40iandaletterstarseeker: i'm sending at the rocket speed of 1.5 kbps
23:22.22starseekerheh
23:22.25starseekerouch
23:22.27louipcI don't know. I didn't read the chit chat.
23:22.28louipcsmiles
23:22.36starseekerread the chit chat!
23:22.49starseeker:-P
23:22.57iandaletterstarseeker: i think we can save a feature to see all available languages - as a feature (point 1), and...
23:23.12louipcIt's way too much. no way!
23:23.33louipcyou're making russian docs is that it?
23:23.49louipcI think I heard something about french docs too?
23:24.00iandaletter...how can we ranslate command promt? if "help" is on ru, and promt is english - it can be a bit cumbersome
23:24.01louipcheard/read
23:24.30louipcwhich command prompt?
23:24.33iandaletterlouipc: fr, de, it, pr, sp, ru
23:24.52starseekeriandaletter:  Not sure what the best approach is there - need to take some time and think about it.
23:24.54louipcthere are some translators lined up eh?
23:25.07louipcgettext wouldn't it be?
23:25.11iandalettercommand promt of mged - can be translated, too - but not just at once
23:25.21iandaletterok
23:25.30iandaletterjust:
23:25.44louipcyou mean  "mged>" ?
23:25.45louipc:P
23:25.51iandalettercommand promt of mged remains on english - right?
23:26.00iandaletterlouipc: yes
23:26.22louipcno need to translate that one :P
23:26.45louipc"attach (nu|X|ogl)[nu]?" could use translating sure
23:27.01starseekerto English? ;-)
23:27.27starseekerlouipc:  Is gettext the standard solution for translation?
23:27.33starseekerisn't up on this stuff yet
23:27.34iandaletterthen translated variant contains same e.g. 40% of english language, and everybody knows english quite good to unerstand simple worlds - kids or grannies :)
23:27.35louipcyes
23:28.31iandaletterstarseeker: you need to rethink another thing, i gues...
23:28.46iandaletter"..guess..."
23:29.05iandaletterit can be not a simple docbook...
23:29.06louipcattach, attacher, juntar
23:29.25starseekeriandaletter:  how come?
23:30.00iandaletterthis manual can unite people who know en, sp and ru - and they will unerstand they're all the same, and we will've created a peace in the world
23:30.02louipcit can if the tools are there
23:30.03iandaletterstarseeker: ?
23:30.12louipcif the tools aren't there then make them :D
23:30.18starseekerwhy can't it be Docbook?
23:30.31louipcbecause xml sucks
23:30.36louipcjokes
23:30.41starseekerHeh.
23:31.12iandaletterThen Docbook with features
23:31.27iandaletterstarseeker: how about a command promt after "mged>"?
23:31.32louipcone fellow was adamant on arguing for TeX
23:31.34iandaletterit is on english...
23:31.51iandaletterstarseeker: ?
23:31.55louipciandaletter: yeah like try 'in'
23:32.26iandaletterwell, i just say about the "policy" of translation...
23:32.35iandaletterit can be different...
23:32.43louipcyeah that can't be in docbook
23:32.57louipcthe program interaction/output
23:33.05iandaletter"full" translation is always... non-creative...
23:33.25louipcwell, perhaps it could somehow but I don't think it would make any sense
23:34.05iandaletterlouipc: what sense?
23:34.24louipcforget I said that
23:34.36starseekeriandaletter:  Ah, you're talking about the command prompt commands themselves.  Yes, initially they would be English, since they are the literal representation of what is typed in.  However, I would expect ru/ documentation to be in Russian except where expressing the actual command
23:34.46louipcgettext is how you translate stuff
23:35.20louipcwhat could be translated is stuff like: Enter name of solid:, Enter solid type:, Enter X, Y, Z of vertex:
23:35.58iandaletterstarseeker: as in files i've sent you? Just edit them, and send to me - i will do it as you wish... I want to know mged's comands - and I need it, well, soon
23:36.47iandaletterlouipc: but e.g. I know this english words from the age of 10 - no one really needs it!
23:37.20starseekerIandaletter:  Heh - just got it
23:37.23starseekerreads
23:37.26Ralithiandaletter: plenty of people are far more comfortable in their native language than english, assuming they even know english.
23:37.36louipciandaletter: oh I thought that's what you wanted when you were talking about command prompts
23:38.19starseekeriandaletter:  I was thinking more along the lines of 3ptarb (the 2nd command)
23:38.34iandaletterEveryone know english... I will work in www.code-aster.org soon - it is fully-french... - then i will have studied a couple of hundred foreign words + additional theory on eng 'n'such
23:38.46starseekeriandaletter:  Again though - I need to discuss with brlcad
23:38.51starseekerhe is the project leader
23:39.03louipcok so what are we talking about translation then?
23:39.09louipcis confused
23:39.10starseekeryes
23:39.17starseekertranslating the docs to multiple languages
23:39.55starseekeriandaletter sent me an example translation of two of the MGED command docs
23:40.10iandaletterRalith: no, it is easy to translate it... words as "Enter", location - even too interesting, but it can be translated, anyway
23:40.21louipccool
23:40.42louipcoh you're debating whether it should be in the repo or not?
23:41.01starseekerThe difficulty with any translation is how to store the translations in a coherent way - which is compounded in this case by the docs already being put through a major reorg
23:41.10louipchmm
23:41.29iandaletterstarseeker: i have one 300 kb mged_cmd_index.html - and i've sent you an example of first 6- or nine commands... in n, fr, de and hand-edited russian
23:41.29Ralithtranslated docs, you always have an issue keeping them up to date
23:41.30louipcdoc/en, doc/ru? :P
23:41.37louipcyea
23:41.47starseekerRalith:  Docs, period
23:41.53louipcyea
23:41.53Ralithmakes me wonder if perhaps no translations should be done when there is not someone who can be relied upon to keep it updated
23:42.10starseekerour ENGLISH stuff isn't even up to date
23:42.39starseekerbut it's a problem that needs solving, and the community can be a big help (both with english docs and with translation)
23:42.50starseekerwhat's needed is a framework within which that work can take place
23:42.58starseekerthat's what I'm trying to work out now
23:42.59louipcyeah
23:43.01iandaletterRalith: there was a talk about wiki engine, it's not a big question - the answer is "Someone, who study brl-cad right now"
23:44.06louipctutorials would be handy
23:44.08iandaletterstarseeker: what if other language will be "a short addition" to original 'english' page?
23:44.23louipctutorials on how to make accurate solid models of real things
23:44.47Ralithlouipc: do you really need a tutorial for that after going through the mged tut?
23:44.50starseekeriandaletter:  That might be an OK way to start, but I'd really rather not mix languages except for the "English command" part of things
23:44.51RalithI only made it about 1
23:44.52louipcnot contorted unrealistic radio/candlestick thingies
23:44.52Ralither
23:45.01RalithI only made it about 1/3 through and I have a pretty solid idea how to model real stuff
23:45.09Ralith(hehe, solid idea)
23:45.17iandaletterit is just better, believe me... everything can be edited - not even somehow "properly" - but into DIFFERENT VARIANTS - AND IT WILL BE COOL, ANYWAY!
23:45.17starseekerlouipc:  Heh - I'm hoping to get down to the National Archives one of these days and poke around
23:45.22louipcI'm trying to make something right now and it's not intuitive from a machinist's perspective
23:45.39louipcwell not that it needs to be intuitive
23:46.14starseekeriandaletter:  I will discuss with brlcad tomorrow, if he is in tomorrow.  Deciding how to set this up is not something I can do by myself - he is lead developer
23:46.23louipcwell once I figure it out I might document the process
23:46.38iandaletterstarseeker: ok, i'll send you e.g. first 10 commands of mged-cmd-index as separate files in directories /en and /ru
23:46.42louipcor at least I will, in a very simple fashion
23:46.53starseekeriandaletter:  Excellent!  Thank you!
23:46.57louipcstarseeker: nice
23:47.08iandaletterok, then i'll have supplied you with files today!
23:47.22starseekerhopes they have enough engineering plans for U.S.S. Monitor to make a detailed model
23:47.42iandaletterstarseeker: i can save each command as docbook from openoffice, will it be right?
23:47.55starseekeriandaletter:  That will be fine
23:48.05iandaletterok
23:48.43iandaletterthen... later... I'm  still ending up cam expert
23:49.01iandaletterok, i quit... morning...is here
23:49.02louipcRalith: I'm curious what's your occupational/technical background?
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23:49.43Ralithlouipc: hobbyist/student
23:50.18Ralithlargely selftaught with respect to the interesting stuff, but I generally know what I'm talking about
23:54.10louipcwell one thing I find is that I need a calculator when modelling with brl-cad, where I don't seem to really need it with autocad or solidworks.
23:56.31Raliththis is probably because autocad and solidworks don't need exact numerical values for everything right off
23:56.36Ralithand let you do things like snap
23:56.52Ralithrather than a fancy tutorial, I suggest more effort be put into the new gui
23:57.08louipcno I enter all dimensions in autocad
23:57.33louipcbut one example: I have to specify radius instead of diametre
23:57.46louipcso I need to half it in the calculator then enter it
23:58.47Ralithradius is a much more useful measurement.
23:59.36louipcnot when I'm dealing with diametres of a shaft turned off a lathe, etc
IRC log for #brlcad on 20080930

IRC log for #brlcad on 20080930

00:00.41Ralithanyway, it's still a GUI issue
00:01.02louipcnah it could work in the command line
00:01.08Ralithfine
00:01.11louipcand it should
00:01.11Ralithit's still a UI issue
00:01.24RalithI dunno
00:01.32Ralithit'd be awkward to support both
00:01.37Ralithand radius is preferable to diameter
00:01.40louipcnot necessarily
00:02.25louipcyeah it is ui though. I don't propose primitives store the diametre
00:02.29louipcrather than radius
00:03.02louipcbut if you have any experience working with mechanical drawings and making real parts out of metal and such, you'll know what I mean
00:03.14louipcor should...
00:39.14brlcad`` , and whomever else I missed -- be sure to update mailing address on the dashboard per message that came out today (no '.' or ',' or non-ascii chars)
00:39.28brlcader
00:39.37starseekerblinks
00:39.44brlcad``Erik, yukonbob that was for you
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00:53.23starseeker's brain has had it - done in by paperwork
01:16.41poolioerr i wasnt?
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02:46.46yukonbobreads scrollback,
02:49.42yukonbober... Hello, cadheads :)
02:58.15yukonbobdoesn't recall to which "dashboard" above message refers.
02:58.42yukonbob?sourceforget
04:23.19pacman87yukonbob: gsoc dashboard
05:03.26PrezKennedyconspiracy!
05:04.02PrezKennedydont mind me... its late
05:45.02yukonbobpacman87: oh.........
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07:37.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32781 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)
07:37.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: simplify the compilation/configuration options for generating the documentation.
07:37.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: provide just one configure option that turns the docs all on or all off for now,
07:37.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: support 'auto' by default so it's on if it finds what it needs, and simplify the
07:37.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: makefile logic as well. push the logic up into the docbook dir so we don't even
07:37.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: traverse if it's off. this lets you manually traverse into the dir to create
07:37.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: the docs even if they were configured off. this is all fairly untested but
07:51.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32782 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (libtie/Makefile.am libtienet/Makefile.am):
07:51.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: debian build failures still seem to rear their head in src/adrt due to linkage
07:51.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: failures on libbu. add BU as a LIBADD dependency. more than likely, this is
07:51.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: related to link_all_deplibs in libtool but unable to test the configuration from
07:51.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: sf bug report 2131397 (Latest svn revision failed to build on Debian sid)
08:04.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32783 10/brlcad/trunk/ (11 files in 6 dirs): variety of manual page fixes by Giuseppe Iuculano ( derevko ) via sf patch 2133680 (Minor fixes to manual pages)
08:11.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32784 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: credit Giuseppe Iuculano with special thanks for his efforts integrating brl-cad into debian apt, for compilation testing, and few minor patches to manual page files.
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08:57.29claymoreup all night brlcad?
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09:37.51brlcadclaymore: nah
09:38.16brlcadjust weird sleeping habits
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10:39.42claymoreNewb question:  Whats a Netsplit'?
10:40.20archivist_ubirc servers losing their interconnection
10:41.54claymoreah i c.  Thanks!
10:42.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32785 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/stractNet/ (8 files): Continuing Geometry Service Java -> Cpp Conversion.
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13:16.31*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || The 2008 Google Summer of Code is complete! -- Thanks deserved to all of our students! || (Source) Release 7.12.6 posted 2008-08-19 || Mailing lists are now reply-to-list instead of reply-to-sender by default
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13:38.33starseekerbrlcad:  Thanks for the help on the configure stuff!
13:43.21clock_brlcad: did you ever use vector terminals with brl-cad?
13:43.54clock_would it be possible to modify brl-cad to produce sound card output such that when viewev od XY oscilloscope, it would represent the scene wireframe?
13:46.20archivist_ubdaft idea clock_ have you ever seen the flicker from that type of display
13:46.33clock_no
13:46.46clock_I have seen the Youscope demo on the 30 MHz analog scope I bought today
13:46.57clock_Although the letters are legible, the picture is pretty shit.
13:47.49archivist_ubmodern graphics cards are so much better
13:48.43brlcadclock_: yep
13:48.53archivist_ubits very hard to drive the xy plates at the speed needed for equivalent display
13:49.24brlcadnot me personally, I arrived around the time when there were still b&w's worth testing on but no vectors by the 90's
13:49.51clock_brlcad: what's a b&w in this context? a vector or a raster CRT?
13:50.02brlcadraster
13:50.26brlcadone of the very first displays of brl-cad that you can see in the historic images is of the Vector General
13:50.37archivist_ubI have a scap vector in the garden
13:51.00clock_brlcad: URL on that image?
13:51.11brlcadit's in the gallery
13:51.18clock_that's very vintage. Oldschool. Dusty and smelly
13:51.24clock_brlcad: the one with Muus drawing the tank?
13:51.28brlcadyep
13:51.36brlcadthat's a vector display
13:51.51clock_is into oldschool, he likes analog scopes, rides an oldschool skateboard,...
13:52.26archivist_ubone of my book collection shows those displays
13:52.33clock_This one? http://brlcad.com/screenshots/mikemuuss.jpg
13:52.56brlcadyes
13:53.27clock_and the cabinets behind the seriously scientifically posing man in sand coloured jacket, are they laundry machines?
13:53.29brlcadfwiw, you shouldn't be going to the .com -- that's for commercial support
13:53.36clock_Where you can put your jeans and pull them clean out?
13:53.48clock_brlcad: I found it through google images
13:54.07brlcaddude, brlcad.org/gallery
13:55.35clock_brlcad: does brlcad has some tool like "rt" which instead of producing a raster would export wireframe in a "line x1 y1 x2 y2" format?
13:59.01brlcadsort of
13:59.20brlcadyou can either get a raster hidden wireframe image via rtedge
13:59.39brlcador you can save the wireframe in mged to a 2d or 3d plot file (or postscript file)
13:59.51clock_postscript file even nicer
14:00.40brlcadlook at the File menu in mged, look at the Render View menu
14:01.04clock_brlcad: nice
14:01.24clock_brlcad: but hidden edge vector file is not available I guess?
14:01.41brlcadnot presently
14:01.45brlcadmaybe after BREP is completed
14:01.52clock_what is brep?
14:02.16clock_hidden edge vector file would be nice for publication, providing clean lines
14:02.21clock_But hey, even now it looks nice
14:02.32clock_wonders if BREP works like rtedge | autotrace inside ;-)
14:02.35brlcad~brep
14:05.13brlcad~brep is a Boundary REPresentation of a solid CAD model where shapes are represented using a collection of connected surface elements, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundary_representation for details
14:05.13ibotbrlcad: okay
14:06.19clock_brlcad: does it work for spheres too? Or aren't we getting from CSG to some kind of surface modelling?
14:06.28clock_BRL-CAD is SOLID modelling
14:07.26brlcadyou can represent most all shapes with brep that you can combining primitives together with csg
14:07.35brlcadbrep is also (usually) solid modeling
14:07.44clock_even curved boundaries like sphere?
14:07.45brlcadjust a different implementation mechanism
14:08.04brlcadsure, spline surface boundary representations can give you most curved surfaces
14:08.22clock_can it represent sphere precisely or only approximation?
14:08.24brlcadand with a higher degree of editing freedom (since you can freely deform any surface patch)
14:09.12clock_hopes there will be some kind of children lock to prevent him from mis-clicking and warping his model
14:09.43brlcadhttp://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel4/5937/15808/00732121.pdf?arnumber=732121
14:10.46clock_brlcad: that's heavy stuff
14:10.55clock_doesn't know even the Bresenham for NURBS
14:11.50clock_I think if I tried to write an algorithm for intersection of a NURBS with a ray, my head would explode.
14:12.11clock_you must be tough guys at BRL-CAD
14:13.26brlcadthey're a pita to implement and really hard to make numerically robust
14:13.47brlcadbut they're what you need for interactive shaded displays that most folks expect
14:14.00claymoreheads explode here once every 3.7 minutes.
14:16.12clock_claymore: :)
14:16.44clock_doesn't want interactive shaded display, I want cubes and cylinders intersecting in a wireframe, and then the object magically appearing during raytracing
14:17.14brlcadwell you have that now :)
14:17.24brlcadjust trying to please more folks ;)
14:21.10claymorelikes wireframe also.
14:21.49claymoredoesn't like training wheels on his CAD packages. ;)
14:38.46brlcadstarseeker: did all the configure and makefile changes make sense to you?
14:39.31brlcadthere is more that should probably happen inside the configure.ac, e.g. if you have xsltproc but don't have Xinclude available
14:39.39brlcadsome functionality testing to make sure it'll actually work
14:40.46iandaletterstarseeker: you can check your email
15:07.34Axman6is clock_'s quit message supposed to be a list of depressing languages and pieces of software?
15:14.28yukonbobwaves-in: "Morning, cadheads"
15:15.25yukonbobAxman6: heh
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15:25.11iandaletterits his resume
15:25.53iandaletteror his sworn-like wish
15:34.19mafmhi
15:34.30claymorehi
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16:20.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32786 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/stractNet/ (12 files): Continuing Geometry Service Java -> Cpp Conversion.
16:24.59starseekeriandaletter:  Looking at it now
16:37.32starseekerscowls at linuxdoc - they appear to have separate websites and storage systems for each language
16:38.29starseekerfortunately, firebird is more interesting...
17:45.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r32787 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (. bot_decimate.c nmg_collapse.c nmg_simplify.c wdb_obj.c): nmg_collapse and nmg_simplify now check that their input NMG has only planar faces. This sort of fixes bug #2052656 (mged crashes on nmg_simplify and nmg_collapse)
17:46.19brlcadlouipc: the input calculations are something that can/should be improved, allowing the user to either switch sets/styles of input if there are conventions and always allowing them to override and get at more advanced topions
17:46.27brlcad(referring to discussion last night)
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17:51.13CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32788 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Building on Sean's Makefile cleanups, make pdf building conditional on presence of fop without stopping html generation. Add lessons directory.
17:58.25brlcadstarseeker: summary printing is prime real estate in shortage, I wouldn't include pdf there
17:58.35starseekerok
17:59.09brlcadyou can put that detail in the summary
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17:59.24brlcadjust format the response accordingly
17:59.51starseekeryou mean fit it on one line?
18:01.40brlcadyeah, something like.. Install extra documentation: yes (html, pdf) | yes (html only) | yes (without pdf), etc
18:02.44brlcadi'd also try to word it from the end-user's perspective, not what goes on behind the scene
18:03.27brlcadbasically what (from their view) results, not how
18:03.37starseekerthat's why you're calling it "extra"?
18:03.51brlcadyeah
18:04.39brlcadthere are probably a few other ways to say the same thing that would work
18:05.19starseekerextra is fine for now - I just hope to reach the point where it's incorrect to call it extra :-)
18:06.16brlcadyeah, certainly -- but even then at that point, "extra" might then mean "generate pdfs too"
18:09.01starseekernow regrets taking a fresh checkout - giddyup already
18:11.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32789 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: john addressed sf bug 2052656 (crashing whis nmg_collapse and nmg_simplify) from Nicolau Werneck (nwerneck) where iges-g -t was crashing. the problem was non-planar surfaces causing the nmg processing routines to abort.
18:13.22brlcadthe only stickler on the doc integration is that the default build on any system should always compile *something* flawlessly with default configure options and with --enable-all
18:14.06brlcadeven if that means turning off all documentation down the road once it's fully integrated into mged unless a way can be found to make the build self-contained
18:14.24starseekernods
18:14.36brlcadlibxml2 could easily be imported, but don't know how big xsltproc actually is
18:14.46starseekerchecks
18:15.03brlcadnot important for now :)
18:15.09starseekerheh
18:15.11brlcadmore improtant to get it working first :)
18:19.47starseekerwell, just for reference, the combined tarballs of libxslt and libxml2 are just shy of 8MB
18:20.09starseekerwinces
18:20.20brlcadwould have to see how much of that is actual source data
18:20.47brlcadit undoubtedly includes test cases, probably some binary files, maybe some specs
18:21.47starseekeryep
18:46.13mafmheading home, waves bye bye :P
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19:35.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32790 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: Reduce 'extra' documentation linest one.
19:47.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r32791 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/stractNet/ (MsgFrag.cpp MsgFrag.h MsgStop.cpp MsgStop.h): Continuing Geometry Service Java -> Cpp Conversion.
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20:07.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32792 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: remove the duplication of functionality, bot_dump ftw
20:16.46b0efmuch of the manuals are rewritten in docbook; are these online somewheree?
20:17.00b0efs/somewheree/somewhere/
20:17.00starseekernot yet - working on that
20:17.11b0efaiight, thanks
20:17.20starseekerthe original pdfs look better, for now
20:17.43b0efis there any way to extrude a set of lines?
20:17.47b0efto form walls..
20:18.19starseekerUm - you could create a sketch of the wall outlines and then extrude that, but our sketch editor isn't so hot
20:18.36b0efI know; I've imported a dxf and it's a set of lines in 2d; I want to extrude them up in 3d to form the walls
20:18.56starseekerAh, that's a bit different
20:19.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32793 10/brlcad/trunk/ (32 files in 4 dirs): Integrate oed docs better into the build system
20:19.20starseekerbrlcad:  Can a dxf import be extruded like that?
20:23.05brlcadyep, they should import as a sketch
20:23.33b0efis that something different than using dxf-g?
20:23.35brlcadyou still cannot, though, have paper thin walls, it'll use a parity test to determine solidity
20:23.51brlcaddxf-g will import them as a sketch
20:24.18b0efwell, the lines form walls in a closed loop; that is, it's a line going around the wall section, making them 10 cm thick
20:24.40b0efthe lines outline the wall
20:25.43b0efis that good enough?
20:25.51brlcadwhat makes them 10cm thick?
20:26.24b0efwell, it's like seeing a wall section from above, then tracing around it
20:26.56brlcadso there are lines for the inside wall surface and the outside wall surface
20:27.04brlcadif that's the case, it should be fine
20:27.06b0efyeah, a wall is like a box
20:27.31brlcadif it's just one line (e.g. just a rectangle), that will result in a solid box when it's extruded
20:27.43b0efthat's ok, for now;)
20:28.13b0efcan I extrude a whole group?
20:28.28b0efwhen I do ls, I get intwall.c.6 among others
20:28.46b0efcan I extrude all in intwall.c.6?
20:29.45brlcadno, you can only extrude a sketch
20:30.05brlcadthey can be oriented individually in any direction/depth/skew
20:30.43b0efah, I also see them as sketch when I do ls
20:31.19b0efright, so this is sketch.6
20:33.03brlcad"l intwall.c.6" will show the contents
20:33.27b0efright
20:33.28brlcadturns off anonymous comments and anonymous contact on the website
20:33.57b0efthen we miss out on the drive by commenters
20:34.49b0efusage: extrude #### distance
20:35.23b0efon the wiki, it said it would extrude faces, but these are lines
20:35.30brlcadso far, there has been *one* drive by comment of value
20:35.36brlcadsince the site went up
20:35.48brlcadthere have been about 400 spam comments
20:36.01brlcadyeah, 'extrude' is for arbs
20:36.08brlcaduse the 'in' command
20:36.25brlcadin object extrude sketch.6
20:39.33*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
20:53.04b0efright, but why does it ask me where to place it?
20:55.27b0efhow do I look up documentation for "in object extrude sketch"?;)
20:56.02brlcadwe were just talking about that last week
20:56.13brlcadapparently there is documentation on the sketch/extrude, but I've never seen it myself
20:56.21brlcadtrying to hunt it down, but it'll probably be a while
20:56.40brlcadit's asking you where to place it because it's a 3d system? :)
20:57.04brlcadyou can place it anywhere and/or extrude in various ways based on those parameters
20:57.06b0efright, but I don't know where it is; I just want it to extrude from where the object is;)
20:57.22brlcadjust try some default 0 0 0  for position and 1 0 0  / 0 1 0  for the uv
20:59.25b0efyeah, I tried a few but it asks me 10 questions and I don't know what it's asking for;)
20:59.54b0efX,Y,XYZ,X,Y,XYZ,X,Y
20:59.54b0efhehe
22:04.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32794 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/articles/ (13 files in 13 dirs): Tie in articles to build system
22:04.31starseekerwhy is sourceforge so slow?
22:07.08archivist_ubhas never known it to be fast
22:09.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32795 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/lessons/mged/ (16 files in 16 dirs): Tie in lessons to build system
22:09.43starseekercripes
22:12.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32796 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
22:12.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: Sweep up the rest of the changes. Volume II and III should now be able to see
22:12.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: all images that are available - single page generation only, at the moment, but
22:12.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: much closer. Still lots of work to get images downsized/replaced with modern
22:12.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: versions, some missing figures, etc.
22:56.59*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
23:56.18starseekertests pdf building on home box...
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081001

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081001

00:08.18starseekerYEEEESSSSS!!!!
00:12.29starseekerwhich is not to say that it doesn't need a lot of work, but the basic machinery is now functional.  Thanks brlcad!
00:12.29``Erikholy crap, I got a title and team in ae, crap, now they'll expect me to do something
00:12.38starseekerheh
00:12.49``Erikoh, uh, hey cliff, uh, still need automake help? :D
00:12.52claymoreloves his wife. She bought Ironman and SHE wants to watch it. *love*
00:13.06claymorewho the hell put you in charge?!?!?!?
00:13.36starseeker``Erik:  Actually, yes :-).  How do I teach automake to identify and install all the output files from a chunked html docbook translation?
00:13.46``ErikI was thinking "R0x like Br0X" for the title, but they gave me "R0x your S0X Br0X" or something
00:14.00``Erikchunked how?
00:14.03``Eriklemme upgrade...
00:14.36claymoreThats got a dr seuss ring to it Erik...
00:14.37starseekerdocbook supports two basic modes of producing html documents - "all in one" and "one file per chapter/section/etc."  the latter is known as chunked
00:15.04``Erikok, I've done sectioned things using the latex2html system
00:15.24starseekerbasically I feed it a different stylesheet - that part's OK - but the filenames are random
00:15.26Ralithmm, LaTeX
00:15.39claymoreRalith:  lol, beat me to it.
00:15.39``Erikrandom?
00:15.40starseekerwell, as far as automake knows anyhow
00:15.59``Erikis there a common file that you know will exist and be able to do path name globbing?
00:16.00starseekerbased on the chapter/section names probably
00:16.11starseekeroutput file?
00:16.18starseekeror input file?
00:16.23``Erikoutput
00:16.25``Eriklike
00:16.32``Erikindex.html: crap.xml
00:16.34starseekernot to my knowledge, except maybe index.html
00:16.51starseekerhang on, let me do some down and dirty testing...
00:16.57``Erik<PROTECTED>
00:17.22``Erikyou might have to abuse the uninstall hook to clean up properly, though
00:19.37``Erik"(RSQ) R0X ur S0X Br0X" heh
00:19.40starseekerer - are you thinking take index.html and follow all its links to install?
00:20.29``ErikI'm thinking that your xml will generate index.html, which should be sufficient to generate support files, and you can do fugly globbing to handle all the incidentals
00:20.49starseekerI take it there's no "non-fugly" way?
00:20.51``Erikbut it won't be "right" unless you can explicitely name all the generated ones
00:21.01starseekerlike "watch all the output from running this operation and install it?"
00:21.10``Erikuh, no, :(
00:21.19starseekerdarn it
00:21.26starseekerwhy not? ;-)
00:22.07starseekerprobably CAN collect all the chunked names, given enough braincells lost to boredom
00:22.11``Erikwell, how the hell do you know what random program xyz outputs when it's non-uniform?
00:22.31``Eriknow if you felt like being horribly gauche, you could collect output and regenerate the makeful with that information
00:22.42starseekersimple - save a list of all files in the directory, then do a diff after the command is run.  Anything new is output
00:22.57``Erikotherwise, you need to simply know the output and sync your .am
00:23.06starseekernods
00:23.10starseekerwas afraid of that
00:23.31``Erikit's a non-recursive evaluation, think of it as a single pass operation
00:24.03starseekerbah - need a lisp build system.  This would be child's play
00:24.21``Erikyes, this is not lispy, this is simple shell scripts
00:24.58``Eriklisp has the zomfg awesome of freakin' recursively evaluated macros, C doesn't do that, and this is even further off in the wrong direction :D
00:25.01starseekerwonders how the rest of the world solves this problem
00:25.27``Erikuh, fugly hacks or knowing all the generated files and maintaining a solid am file?
00:25.35starseekerblegh
00:25.35``Erik99% of the world would say "uh, don't do that"
00:25.36``Erik:)
00:25.55starseekergenerate chunks in the first place you mean?
00:26.23``ErikI honestly can't see this stuff being nondeterministic
00:26.51``ErikI think you're just expecting too much automagic, if you change a section name, update the am file to reflect that... no?
00:26.59starseekerOh, I'm quite sure it's deterministic.  It's just the idea of a big laundry list doesn't appeal
00:27.20``Erik<-- points to several places where we have big laundry lists in BRL-CAD's autofu
00:27.54starseekerobjects to doing things computers can (or at least should) be able to do.
00:29.07``Erikok. You must know the output of every program in existance, ever. Without getting to look at docs or try running them.
00:29.27``Erikdue to the pipelined trivial nature of the auto* approach, that is the issue :)
00:29.49``Erikgiven any possible data set as input.
00:29.57``Erik:D
00:46.32starseekerHeh.  Before and after diffs on the directory are fine unless you get side cruft generated, but nevermind
01:06.05``Erikmany programs generate side cruft
01:17.00*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
01:17.00*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || The 2008 Google Summer of Code is complete! -- Thanks deserved to all of our students! || (Source) Release 7.12.6 posted 2008-08-19 || Mailing lists are now reply-to-list instead of reply-to-sender by default
05:51.41*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-93-101.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:01.37*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch)
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08:34.58claymoreme yawns.
08:35.01claymoreMornin all.
08:49.05``Erikyou wake up far too early.
08:51.49``Eriktegan and sarah.. they're not pretty,but they make good music
08:52.54*** join/#brlcad iandaletter (n=asus@217.118.79.40)
09:31.11*** join/#brlcad archivist_emc (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
10:31.17claymoreWell it appears you wake up too early also :)
10:31.32iandaletterme?
10:31.50iandaletterit is rather evening...
10:32.11claymorewell i was talking at Erik, but hi!
10:32.24iandaletterhi
10:34.47claymoreErik as for their music... its okay.  That song 'back in your head' drives me insane... too squeak of  a voice.  'Speak slow' is rock enough that I actually like it.
10:35.14claymoreAnd the looks, eh, I believe the category they fall into is 'bag & tag' ;)
10:36.53claymoreiandaletter:  Whereabouts are you located?
10:37.09iandaletterпье +7
10:37.14iandalettergmt +7
10:37.46iandaletterending up translating QCAD's manual
10:38.15clock_iandaletter: QCAD the 2D editor from Switzerland?
10:38.19claymorewhat for?
10:38.21iandaletterclaymore: are you a student?
10:38.54iandaletterclock_: yes, and it seems it loads 3D dxf as orthogonal view - but i'm not sure
10:39.08clock_orthogonal view?
10:39.13iandaletterclaymore: i'm graduated student...
10:40.05iandaletterclock_: probably it fully support dxf, but it's a 2D editor - XY plane can be saved, but i'm not sure
10:40.46claymoreianda:negative ghost rider, I am a oldguy.  Done did gradjiated and have to work the rest of my life now :)
10:41.45iandaletterclaymore: clay more - you probably love off-road or it's a name of a city?
10:42.27claymoregmt +7 = China, mongolia, russia ...?
10:42.37iandaletterrussia
10:42.47iandaletterwww.sibsiu.ru
10:42.54iandalettermy university
10:43.07claymoreActually, 'Claymore' is just an internet handle I have had since I was a weee lad.  Base on the Scottish Two Handed Sword.
10:43.54iandaletterclaymore: i thought it means "Waha!.. more clay after the rain (under my wheels)!.."
10:44.45claymoreianda:  Very well could mean that :)  I just never heard that.  I DO own a jeep and like to go off road evern now and then...
10:45.24clock_claymore: some people go off road without a jeep - in a sharp curve in a rain, after a lot of drinking...
10:46.13claymorelol, not I.  I don't drink and never will.  Lost 2 good friends in High School to drugs & alcohol...
10:46.29iandaletteri own a motorbike, heavy one.. like to ride it to e.g. scrambler thru muddy road after rains and so on... When on asphalt tires - it's fun... www.rockrawler.com
10:46.35claymoreI go offroad on purpose and in a rather controlled manner ;)
10:46.55iandaletterlol... sharp curve
10:47.19clock_claymore: did they die from drugs and alcohol?
10:47.41claymoreyes they did.
10:47.48clock_heroin?
10:48.41iandaletterclaymore: why developers of brl-cad have not included some new features, as e.g. automatic dimensioning?
10:49.39iandaletterclock_: "hero in" - and it's usually not so... it is "you + drugs" Why don't they call heroin as "youdrugs"?
10:49.47claymoreFather came home drunk and high on something, i don't know if they ever found out what, but had a shotgun and was looking to kill his wife.  Mistook his daughter for his wife.
10:50.51clock_claymore: oops
10:51.30clock_claymore: what happened afterwards with the father?
10:51.51claymoreiandaletter: When it comes to features added into brlcad, well, its a matter of person-hours... there just isn't enough coders to go around ;)
10:52.14iandaletterclaymore: it's bad a bad opportunity to get fire weapons easily. In Russia, lots of people vote "no" for it. But "our capitalists" still want it, though
10:52.21claymoreclock:  Prison, haven't heard from him since.  Don't care to either.
10:52.38clock_claymore: and mother?
10:52.40iandaletterclaymore: ok, i thought it
10:53.11iandaletterclock_: don't sure mother is happy
10:53.26claymoreclock_: She committed suicide shortly thereafter.
10:53.32clock_no wonder
10:54.19clock_so effectively the family disappeared from the surface of earth?
10:54.58claymorepretty much.
10:55.39claymoreits a said story, sure, but that was many years ago now.  Just the reason why i have never and will never partake.  *shurgs*
10:55.56clock_how many years do you get in the US for shotgunning down your own daughter?
10:56.09clock_claymore: partake == got to parties?
10:56.25iandaletterDrugs 'fresh' up their mind, but they don't pleasure in life. Instead, they try to resolve old problems. Or sit and wait for drug intake - when the problems actually begins - in relations or smth.
10:56.51claymoreMurder no longer commands the death sentence, so he will be out in about another 10 years.  I think he did 25 total.
10:57.10clock_So then he can find another woman and the story can repeat
10:57.32clock_If the wife added one homicide to the suicide, she could have prevented this.
10:57.36claymorepartake == go to parties, but not drink.  I usually end up being the designated driver... which is lots of fun by itself :)
10:57.54claymoreIf he makes it out alive... the prisons are not nice to child killers.
10:58.20clock_she was a child at that time?
10:58.31iandaletterclock_: "partake" = to take a part of
10:58.34claymoreGrief makes people do very irrational things.
10:59.17claymoreYes, she was 12 or 13 at the time.  We had known eachother since we were babies.
11:00.42clock_why did the father want to kill the mother?
11:01.06clock_that's not how a harmonic family works, I'd guess
11:01.50claymoreWho knows.  He was drunk and high on some drug.  He probably didn't even know, just seemed like good idea probably.  The mother and daugther were wonderful people.  The mother just picked a bad apple when it came to husbands.
11:02.25iandaletterclock_: he has something to say, and he'd chosen inappropriate way to do it - after drugs "Drugs 'fresh' up their mind, but they don't pleasure in life. Instead, they try to resolve old problems. Or sit and wait for drug intake - when the problems actually begins - in relations or smth."
11:03.31iandaletter"husbands" - "house band"
11:04.17claymorehusbands = married man.  e.g. Husband and Wife.
11:04.25clock_An advantage of a single mother. There is no husband to shotgun her down
11:05.10claymore...well thats an intersting angle to look at it from Clock_ ...huh, never thought if that way.
11:06.20iandaletterclock_: and a choice of partners, and a need for being a cute lady...
11:06.46claymore$5 USD says that Erik comes back on the channel and says "zomg you guys talk too much!"
11:08.29claymoreso, what do you all do for a living?  if you don't mind me askin of course
11:08.50clock_is a software engineer, which is a posh name for programmer
11:09.31iandaletteri'm mechanical engineer, and sometimes a translator
11:09.42claymoreposh?  might you be in the uk somewhere clock?
11:09.53clock_no Switzerland
11:10.02iandaletterProbably, i will be a super-duper e.g. sportsman later
11:10.11claymoreonly missed by a few hundred miles :)
11:10.56clock_I program in C.
11:11.00claymorecool, a MechEng.  I was a ElecEng in the US Navy for a while.  What area of the industry do you work in iandaletter?
11:11.14clock_mechanical engineer is good
11:11.24iandaletteri want to drive thru europe someday... but the main distance will be my own country - nice views as mountains and plains
11:11.27claymorelol, join the crowd.  There are some serious C zealots here where I Work.
11:11.49iandaletterheavy machinery of metallurgical plants
11:11.52claymoreI am the 'new guy' and the 'oo guy' :)
11:12.15clock_object oriented
11:12.30clock_is object oriented, where the object is attractive gay guys
11:12.47claymoreianda: Awesome, so I understand:  The machines at the plants where the alloy mixing occurs, or more like the mines where the metals are extracted?
11:13.29clock_how to produce heavy machinery: take ordinary machinery and add a lod of lead weights
11:13.35iandaletterbig coefficient of reliability - the only difference from other machines... same ratio weight / reliability
11:13.49clock_iandaletter: so everything i sbasically thicker?
11:14.06claymoreclock:  lol, I am not sure if you are calling OO guys gay, or just saying that you like gay guys....
11:14.29clock_claymore: I am not calling oo guys gays, I am just stating I am gay in a oo-paraphrase manner
11:14.39iandaletterclock_: come on! you can not live wit no womans.. as russian com
11:15.07claymoreclock_: i figured it was one of the two :)
11:15.22clock_claymore: hope I didn't offend you
11:15.48clock_is listening to a tune recorded on a dot matrix printer
11:15.57iandaletterComedyClub says: "No, no... I'm same yours, still a clothes' esigner, and don't believe them all - i'm still a gay..."
11:16.14claymoreianda: so what industry do your machines primarily function in?
11:17.18claymoreclock: nah, no offense.  You can be as gay or straight as you want.  No matter to me.  I like my 5'8" brown eyed wife though, so its TnA all the way for me :)
11:17.20clock_claymore: I understood in metal forges :)
11:18.05iandaletterclock_: due to large geometrical dimensions, e.g. casted metal could have cavities, that's why e.g. coefficient of reliability reaches 5-6 ration. not e.g. 1.5-2 as in cars - the only difference. "thicker" - right word
11:18.30clock_iandaletter: you don't test the metal with x-rays?
11:18.42claymoreCool.  I worked with a guy in the navy who got a job making equipment that performs checks on the machines that perform checks on the machines that make pharmacutical products.  He loves describing his job just to confuse people :)
11:18.59clock_sounds like multiple levels o recursion
11:19.36clock_My father worked in the atomic clock department.
11:19.42claymorehe gets paid very well.  I am rather jealous.
11:19.57clock_They had like a 20m well into the ground and an atomic clock on the bottom. To ensure maximum possible environmental stability.
11:20.36clock_And they had a lot of oscilloscopes counters phase locked loops and signal comparators and made the national time standard for the whole country.
11:20.54clock_Even the horizontal retrace of all television channels were synchronized to this so you could get atomic time from you TV set.
11:21.11iandaletterclock_: no, usually... it is not really needed - most of equipment has been designed long ago... ain proportions and so on. Now it's fea and "longevity / pit stops"
11:22.58iandaletter"main proportions"
11:23.12clock_iandaletter: do you use BRL-CAD to design your monstrous machines?
11:25.18iandaletterno, it is usually AutoCAD - but now, when internet access is well ...possible for everyone - we can not use pyrate software in firms... People at home can use it still. I'm about BRL-cad, QCAD, blender, and www.code-aster.org soon
11:25.50claymoreis learning blender.
11:26.11clock_what is code-aster? It's in French I don't understand
11:26.31clock_iandaletter: I use BRL-CAD and qcad on my DIY garage made optical wireless data link 10Mbps full duplex 1.4km
11:26.39iandaletterDo you know Finite Element Method? FEA or FEM - this and continual modifications to get good "longevity/ pit stops" ratio - all what we do
11:27.00clock_FEM yes you divide into small pieces and then calculate the mechanical parameters
11:27.47iandaletterclock_: i can not even download it... it's in french, but i will use it and other free programs instead of non-cheao ANSYS.com
11:28.45claymore
11:29.11iandaletterimpact.sourceforge.net - for crush tests, written on java, it works with shells and geuz.org/gmsh/ mesher
11:30.47iandaletterclock_: "DIY"?
11:30.54clock_iandaletter: Do It Yourself
11:31.08iandaletterah!
11:31.59iandalettermy old PC was "RIY" with couple coolers'n'such in store
11:32.32claymoreokay, my turn... RIY == ??
11:33.09iandaletterRepair it yourself
11:33.36clock_I bought factory new skateboard trucks and they were RIY
11:33.41clock_Repair The Faulty Design Yourself
11:33.42iandaletterand now it's a laptop, and by now i hate computers
11:33.59claymoreah, lol.
11:34.06clock_They left unmachined casted surface in a place where the ball bearings required precisely prependicular surface
11:34.27claymoreI am getting ready to make the switch from laptop back to desktop as my primary machine.
11:34.33clock_I had to file 4 these surfaces and 4 nuts (also crooked) down to prevent the bearings from being destroyed
11:35.03clock_claymore: I did the same
11:35.15iandaletteruh... I have bought K2 sk8board for 50$ instead of 150$ - promo model - someone'd groung tails a bit...
11:35.37clock_claymore: Especially at home I have a dual CPU high performance desktop since I render BRL-CAD videos for my hobby project.
11:35.57iandaletterclock_: claymore: I hate computers by now...
11:36.03clock_iandaletter: I have a G&S Stacy Peralta Warp Tail 2 reissue
11:36.50claymorewow, you use brlcad for videos?  got any samples to see?
11:37.00iandaletterdon;t know brands... i used to biking, but this thing has no brakes!
11:38.50iandaletterwe have no much asphalt... for a while...
11:39.42clock_claymore: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/all.ogg
11:40.17iandaletterclock_: I have ABEC 5 and people say it is a bit fast for freestyle - and soon it will be even faster. I'm from http://pastime-one.livejournal.com/
11:40.20clock_claymore: sorry, the video is empty. I have to fix it.
11:40.30clock_iandaletter: I have Bones Swiss.
11:40.57claymoreclock: no problem, but can you put it in either mpeg or avi?  I am at work and don't have the ability to view ogg.
11:40.58clock_you regulate speed by crappiness of the bearings?
11:41.10clock_I thought the job of bearings is to reduce friction as close to 0 as possible.
11:41.25clock_claymore: no. I tried mpeg but the mpeg encoder shifted sound and video.
11:42.13clock_If I stop maintaining Ronja for a month always some things screw up
11:42.34clock_This time it was the fucking video.
11:42.39iandaletterwell, i don't really know... Only know opinions - while i'm just skating. I like flatland as Rodney Mullen - and "rally" to somewhere thru every bit of asphalt
11:42.47clock_I fix my skateboard and my BRL-CAD video breaks.
11:42.53clock_Life is like the 15 game.
11:43.16clock_is nowhere as far in skateboarding as Rodney Mullen
11:44.56iandaletterclock_: you mean you can less... I'm too - for a while... I like to spend time this way. Earlier, i liked e.g. brooks + mountain bicycle
11:45.16clock_iandaletter: I can less
11:45.27clock_All I can do is some kind of almost-bert like Jay Adams
11:45.51clock_http://www.purplemoon.ch/upics/124/u_875810.jpg
11:45.56clock_http://www.purplemoon.ch/upics/160/u_875808.jpg
11:46.32iandaletteri don't know jay Adams, but sk8 - it is a way to spend time as kids do. No, i can not handle pics with my current internet access
11:47.03iandaletterlater, save as bookmarks
11:47.20clock_iandaletter: build a Ronja and you'll be able to stream DVD video realtime!
11:47.42clock_but only if the next hop has as strong connection as well ;-)
11:48.05clock_iandaletter: Jay Adams is one of the best skaters ever
11:48.14iandaletteri'm on GPRS it is digital-thru-GMS on mobile cell phone
11:49.28iandaletteri don;t have cheap internet to have a good pastime in the internet... I saw videos only in licensed games of Tony Hawk's Pro Skater
11:51.45claymorehow much do you pay for your internet service ianda?
11:52.19iandaletterus $ for 10 mb at night or 5 mb at day
12:08.11*** join/#brlcad iandalette1 (n=asus@217.118.79.37)
12:20.10iandalette1connection check
12:20.18claymoreconnection check sat.
12:21.30iandalette1roger
12:45.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32797 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/bot_dump.c: Added code to dump sat files.
12:57.41``Erikfights the urge to pull up his bank account and apples store site in windows next to eachother O.o
12:58.25claymorehave it both ways:  Give in to the urge to buy something, but then give it to someone... like me!
12:58.28claymoremuwahaha
12:58.30``Erikand, claymore, you're doing it wrong, when someone says SYN, you say ACK, then they say ACK back
12:58.40claymoreattempts a Jedi Mind Trick.
12:59.14claymorelol.  Rule #1:  Never tell a Sub Electrician how to do phone comms ;)
12:59.25``Erik<-- looks at modem
12:59.31``Erikdis ain't sat comm, boy
12:59.44claymoreno one said it is.
12:59.50archivist_ubsets rts
13:00.12claymoreoh no, someone set the channel to RealTime Strategy!
13:00.13``Erikrule #0xff14: never tell intarweb nerd details of ip
13:00.56claymorelulz. ip == ?? in this case?
13:01.32``ErikI've tuned 300 baud modems to crank about 900 bps, I've decided things like psnuke were inferior and rewrote them to be more brutal
13:01.37``Erikinternet protocol
13:01.53``Erikip/tcp is probably the inferior format you've seen
13:02.03*** join/#brlcad claymore_ (n=claymore@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:02.14claymore_well that was strange.
13:02.21``Erikapparently claymore fails IP rules
13:02.22``Erik:D
13:02.25archivist_ubrtty on the PET was entertaining
13:02.50``Erikzmodem, ymodem, kermit... I think I mostly used y
13:02.54``Erikit was a LONG time ago
13:03.04claymore_who'd thought dropping a bottle of Mt Dew on a keyboard would have such an effect....
13:03.18``Erikthe z80 cp/m box was amusing, but I really grooved on the c64
13:03.52claymore_did you have a tape drive or two?
13:04.05``Erikhad hayes 300 and 1200 rs232 modems, I was badass :D
13:04.22``Erikno, even in '83, with the coleco adam, my dad bought a disk drive....
13:04.54``Erikthe disk drive on the coleco never worked. Period. So we used 4track there, but the commie disks worked like a charm
13:04.55claymore_lol. I think my first modem was a hayes 1200.  Can't really remember.  Only used it to play games :)
13:04.58clock_is watching Iggy Pop: Passenger on an 30 MHz analog oscilloscope
13:05.17claymore_thinks clock needs to get out more ;)
13:05.18``Erika couple 1541's, a couple 1571's, a precious 1581
13:05.43``ErikI was a bbs sysop in the late 80's
13:05.56claymore_wow you must be OLD.
13:06.00claymore_:)
13:06.19``Erikwe were a scary group. A bunch of adult males who couldn't get laid. it was a scary time.
13:06.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32799 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/bot_dump.c: ws, indent
13:06.44clock_claymore: get out like outside or into society?
13:06.49``Erikand I'm only a year older than you, claymore
13:06.56claymore_lets see... what was I doing in the late 80's... oh thats right, middle school :)
13:07.22``Erik'76 representin', yo!
13:07.26``Erik*sob*
13:07.29claymore_clock: just away from the o-scope :)
13:07.35archivist_ub``Erik, is a youngster
13:07.48claymore_erik:  77 was better:  First apple, first Starwars movie..... you missed it by a year imo :P
13:08.12``ErikI was at the very first screening of starwars, tyvm
13:08.36``Erikand, uh, bicentenial, yo? or is the nation inferior to a pathetic 8b micro?
13:08.37claymore_wonders why Erik just admitted to that...
13:09.00archivist_ubwent to see 2001
13:09.02``ErikNERDCORE!
13:09.09claymore_I am aspiring to see the tricentennial.
13:09.29``Erikat this point, I'd be impressed if there was one :(
13:09.29claymore_wow.  2001, thats one acid trip of a movie.  :)
13:10.00``ErikI like the middle of it.. monkey land was .. kinda lame, and space baby was... wtf
13:10.15claymore_I might have to celebrate it while hiding from the lynch mobs or in a bomb shelter, but i am still planning on being there :)
13:10.56claymore_my opinion was that good old Stanley K had a good script going but dropped a few tabs of acid 3 pages from the end.
13:11.00``Erikthe travesty, though, was AI
13:11.17``Erikkubrick wrote a fucking goddamn brillian dysoptic story
13:11.29claymore_erik:  the new movie with that 6th sense kid?
13:11.42``Erik'01
13:11.54``Erikspeilberg directed the original screenplay disturbingly well
13:11.59``Erikbut then the story ends...
13:12.09``Erikand... then... speilburgs writing shows up... and... it sucked
13:12.21claymore_ah.  yeah.  I didnt get 2001 until i watched 2001 and 2010 back to back, like 7 times in a row.  Then the whole Genesis idea kicked in and I got it. lol
13:12.28*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
13:13.33``Erikseriously, if you watch ai, when the brat is at the bottom and it does the slow fade to black, turn it off! that is seriously the end of the movie. the shit after that is just gratouitous cg wankery to make a disney ending out of a zomfg awesome story
13:13.38claymore_and thats strange because Shpeilburg's made some really good movies...
13:14.02mafmhello
13:14.13claymore_I will have to remember that if I ever bring myself to watch it...
13:14.19claymore_mafm: hai!
13:14.22``Erikeh, they were awesome when I was 10
13:14.23``Erik...
13:14.50claymore_Schindler's list still haunts me to this day.  Watched it once.  Dunno if i can watch it again.
13:14.59``Erikthat was a good movie
13:15.08mafm``Erik: which is the status of the debian package?
13:15.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32800 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/ (8 files in 3 dirs): ws
13:15.21``Erikwhen I was in highschool, they bussed everyone to the theater to see it
13:16.16claymore_Saving Private Ryan, although somewhat weak on plot, was a visual punch in the face.  My gramps, who was at ohmaha beach, had to leave the room.
13:16.40``Erikmafm, the debian machine I had access to has been port blocked for months. all my freshmeat entries have been deleted. They say it's because of some 'hacker' software, and I hav ea gut feelign that they're seeing the self policing crap instituted after the box was hacked, years ago
13:17.29``Erikthat was an interesting flick, the big issue with that seemed to be everyone arguing about the first half hour, calling it gratuitous violence... I think it was a clever way to set the brutal ugly mood of the era
13:18.03``Eriky'know, war ain't pretty, ladies, it's a lot of ugly followed up by more ugly
13:18.49claymore_oh dear god... imdb says there is a Jurassic Park 4 in the works..... *slams head on desk*
13:19.29``Eriknow, help me remember, both shindlers list and saving private ryan were zomfg real stories, right?
13:19.51mafm``Erik: is it just a matter of using your scripts and building, or do you think that more substantial work is needed?
13:19.56``Erikso there was no actual crative writing in those? just emulation?
13:20.04claymore_erik: Pretty sure, yeah.  I know they were based on real stories, but I don't know how accurate they are.
13:20.25``Erikthe debian package stuff I wrote was sufficient at the time I wrote it, I can't imagine things changing that much
13:21.10``Erikwell, dave, when AI fades to black at the end then goes into the alien thing, it gets... really fucking lame
13:21.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32801 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: add support for color and vectors to pnts so it can be announced
13:21.56``Erikit was genious up to that point, then got retarded... so retarded, I had to look it up... and, uh, that shift point was where kubrick stopped writing and speilburg picked itup
13:22.31``Erikthey said that kubricks manuscript was incomplete, I think it actually was complete, it was a good morbid end
13:22.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32802 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: need to wrap up revolve too
13:23.19claymore_probably right.  EVERYONE wants a Disney ending nowadays.
13:23.46claymore_One thing i liked about the Terminator series:  3 movies thus far and they still can't stop the world from being destroyed, lol.
13:23.59``ErikI think it's a movie worth watching, it really is terrific... but if I were in the room, I'd walk out or hit hte stop button with 20 minutes left, cuz that's where the story ends
13:24.21``Erikerm, if they do, then the events of the first never occur... :D
13:24.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32803 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: cliff now has the docs autogenerating, at least a good first stab at it
13:24.58mafm``Erik: I could try to build them for ia32 and amd64 if you help me :)
13:25.09claymore_Ill put in on my list.  The wife picked up Ironman yesterday.  not as impressed as the hype had me antcipating it.
13:25.26``Erikall I can do is offer advice, mafm, with that box gone, I'm all bsd and mac
13:25.47``ErikI was surprised with how amusing 'tropic thunder' was
13:26.18mafm``Erik: he
13:26.30mafm``Erik: yep, that's mostly what I need :)
13:26.35``Erikrobert downey jr was in it, he's the dude who played iron man, right?
13:26.50claymore_erik:  right.
13:27.08claymore_CG was good... okay, CG was awesome, but the plot wasn't well balanced.
13:27.22``ErikI was saddened by the transformers movie
13:27.27claymore_they spent a bulk o fht emovie developing characters and the last 30 minutes telling the story.
13:27.40``Erikthere was no plot, and they boned the legacy
13:27.44claymore_Really?  Did you actually expect anything other than eye candy?
13:27.50claymore_I sure didn't
13:28.07``Erikwell, I kinda didn't expect my childhood to be bent over and rammed without lube
13:28.38claymore_I didn't really pay attention to the plot.  I was focused on the CG and Megan Fox... with Michael Bay at the helm, I knew the movie was going to have a weak ass plot.
13:28.44``Erikbut, yeah, michael bay movie...
13:28.53``Erikwhat I'm really amused by, though
13:29.09``Erikis my gf is a huge dbz fan, and mike bay is doing a dbz live action movie
13:29.26claymore_serious?  Sounds like you got a keep then.
13:29.27``Erikso I'm all over that, y'knwo BWAAAAAHAHHAHHA YOU'RE GONNA GET THE BAY TREATMENT!
13:29.57claymore_and... i will have to look that up. But dbz's fate is pretty much sealed.
13:30.25``Erikwell, y'know, you get mebbe 70 minutes of grunting and powering up to super saiyan
13:30.28``Erikthen, uh
13:30.32``Eriksome explosion or something
13:30.34``Erikmovies over
13:30.58claymore_lol
13:31.00``Erikisn't that how the animated series worked?
13:31.40claymore_according to imdb, Bay is working on remakes of: Friday the 13th, The Birds, and a nightmare on Elm Street...
13:31.41``Eriksorry, if you're talking anime, give me y'know, ghostin the shell or cowboy bebop
13:32.14claymore_ah... I have limited exposure to anime, but GitS and Vampire Hunter D are my current favs.
13:32.32claymore_Well, the animatrix also, if you can count that.
13:32.35``Erikodddd, there was an anouncement that he was doing dbz, and a LOT of public outcry
13:32.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32804 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/bot_dump.c: braces
13:34.12claymore_well, thats not all he's doing, but just 3 of the interesting ones.  didn't see dbz on there, but then again imdb is 100% accurate all the time.
13:35.09``Erikspecial effects are lovely and all, but I want a story... bay just doesn't do that
13:35.50claymore_true.
13:35.53``ErikI mean, loaded in my dvd player right now... kung fu
13:36.11``Erikthe story and backdrop are immense
13:36.30``Erikbut it's, y'know, a cheesy 70's western tv show as far as effects go
13:36.38claymore_I can forego plan if there is enough awesome cg, fight scenes and hot women ...;)
13:36.50claymore_so you're at home today>
13:36.57``ErikI used to, I can't anymore
13:37.06``Erikyeah, I called in sick, was feeling shoddy when I got up
13:37.41claymore_based on all the commits, i think Sean won't be in today either ;)
13:38.08``Erikhe does what he does, no one knows when he'll be in
13:38.37``Erikif they say "hey! you're presenting at a ttm!" he seems to show up, but *shrug*
13:38.50claymore_truth be told, I am fighting a killer headache.  Haivng trouble focusing.  Perhaps thats just because i forgot my meds....
13:39.28``Erikok, dude, it's not meds if it involves a mirror, razer and straw.
13:39.33``Erik:D *duck*
13:39.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32805 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/bot_dump.c: refactor and simplify, write the number of triangles inside write_bot_stl_binary instead of reseeking afterwards
13:39.50starseekerwill be heading in in a few minutes, once his headache is under control
13:40.01claymore_shhhhhh damnit erik!
13:40.43claymore_its getting to the point where we will need to rename the channel #sickbay
13:41.31``Erik"why is there a postit with sickbay written on it on the aft starboard airlock?"
13:41.33claymore_ponders on ways to get Cliff addicted to AE as well...
13:41.43claymore_lol
13:42.00iandaletterstarseeker: you need to get a fruit smoothie
13:42.15starseekerwinces
13:42.35``Erikbites his tongue on the obscene perverted comment fighting to escape
13:42.42iandaletteroh, starseeker, don't wince
13:42.52iandaletterwe're with you!
13:42.59claymore_...
13:43.13claymore_speak for yourself :)
13:43.29claymore_I am withholdin help until i find out why he is wincing.
13:43.38starseekeriandaletter:  I did take a look at your translation stuff - thank you for sending it.
13:43.48starseekeris wincing at the idea of a smoothie with a headache
13:44.10starseekeriandaletter:  I'm preparing a docbook template to use for commands, which should work regardless of language
13:44.15claymore_just heat it up in a microwave.
13:44.53``ErikI, uh, have to walk away before I type something that'll make i leave the channel again :D bbiab
13:45.28starseekeriandaletter:  The structure will be one file per command, and we'll set up directories for the various languages ala firebird
13:45.51claymore_ah.... eye candy: http://www.scifi-meshes.com/gallery/showfull.php?photo=2327
13:45.53starseekerthis lets us generate man pages, html, and pdf from a single source file
13:46.26iandaletterstarseeker: have you checked an email?
13:46.34starseekerYesterday or today?
13:46.40iandaletterthen "main" variant
13:46.48starseekeryes, main variant
13:46.54iandaletterwell, "my today"
13:46.57starseekerheh
13:47.21iandaletterdon't know... when just, the last one
13:47.46iandaletterand a bit more plain formatting than in old mged cmd index, right?
13:48.32starseekerIt will be similar to the search example in doc/docbook/system/man1
13:49.08starseekerI'll put up a template later today
13:50.04iandaletterok, i'm on it... just finishing another translation, 2nd of 2
13:50.12starseeker:-)
13:51.11starseekergears up for the drive in
13:51.41iandaletteri'll se a template - and offer few first commands in it... but can not download files for using docbook file format under openoffice. It will be html with proper formatting at the start... Then i will save it as docbook.
13:53.07brlcadheya mafm
13:53.15brlcadand iandaletter, how goes it?
13:54.40``Eriknice pic, claymore, what series/movie? 'ikula' is a russian sub designation, foxhound is overloaded :/
13:55.14brlcadiandaletter: does OO read docbook?
13:55.16``Erikakula, rather
13:55.44iandaletterbrlcad: i've sent an example to starseeker. Next evening i'll have checked the way it must be formatted. Then the main work will have been started. My floss -translation are finished as 190% of whole 200%
13:55.46claymore_its an original work from a guy named Coolhand who frequents that site.  I think he is either russian or has a love of russian military assets since ALL of his projects have Russian designations to them.
13:56.02iandaletterbrlcad: don't know yet, will see
13:56.05``Erikah, damn impressive
13:56.49claymore_his designs are my current fav.  check out his profile/gallery.  lots more where that come from.  The detail on those ships.... must have taken months to do.
13:56.52``ErikI'll have to talk to the dude about cover art when I decide I'm destined to be a great scifi author :D
13:57.59claymore_lol
13:58.07claymore_have you made any short stories yet?
13:58.09iandaletterbut i like to produce something "in hands"... don't really love computers... only a help to support documentation, and to design something
13:58.16``Erikhell no, I hate writing
13:58.18brlcadiandaletter: okay, cool -- lemme know because if it can, that'd be pretty useful to set up some default style templates for easy editing
13:58.29``ErikI haven't even done my accomplishments yet
13:58.29iandaletterok
13:58.36brlcadiandaletter: working on docs is a huge help, thanks :)
13:58.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32806 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 4 dirs):
13:58.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: bot-raw is killed now that bot_dump pretty much replaces its functionality.
13:58.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: there is some potentially significant differences, though, that should be
13:58.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: reconciled (bob?) in the output format (like why bot-raw was outputting the
13:58.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: vertex count but bot_dump does not)
13:58.50iandaletterok
13:59.21claymore_lol
14:00.34iandaletterclaymore: comics911 at wordpress.com - my doubtful stuff
14:01.09``ErikI have the kernel of a book on my drive, but it's not really a fiction, it's kinda a physics book from a fictive view... "physics for the interplanetary traveler", goes into newtonian and kepler style physics with a semi-pragmatic mindset
14:01.35``Eriktongue in cheek comedy style
14:01.37claymore_So a compendium for Hitchhikers Guide? :)
14:01.48``Erikyeah, actually, exactly
14:01.54claymore_nice.
14:02.17``Erikbut I stopped about five years ago
14:02.33iandaletter``Erik: you write a book... well, i thought about it, too
14:02.33claymore_Eddie, the flamboyany ships computer.... that had me nearly pissing myself.... lol
14:03.06``Erikthe recent movie that came out really didn't do justice to the books
14:03.26iandaletterabout my book... but always remind Zigmund Freid's psychological sublimation...
14:03.48claymore_haven't seen it yet, kinda don't want to...
14:03.51``Erikin, uh, 2002, I actually got pulled out of line because I had the hhgg paperback with me, the foil on the cover set off the metal detecter
14:04.10iandaletter``Erik: can a date of publishing to be some kind of a copyright?
14:04.29``Erikso I put my held belongings down on a seat and they wanded me for a while, before figuring out it was my book
14:05.01``Erikamusingly, my dad had a book with him and was using a carbon fiber knife as a bookmark, forgot to take it out... he went through no problem
14:06.04``Erikiandaletter: us copyright law states that copywrite is implicit, with date of publishing being the official date for the length
14:06.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32807 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: it looks like bot-bldxf outputs a much better dxf than bot_dump, the two should be merged
14:06.31``Erikwas changed to implicit in the 70's I think
14:06.49brlcad``Erik: was (fix metaball "shelling" issue) fixed?  what is that?
14:06.54iandaletteri mean publishing on e.g. livejournal dot com
14:07.22brlcadand "extend metaball control info beyond simple points" (?)
14:07.25``Erikno, never fixed, um, the primitive inverted weirdly
14:07.39``Eriknope, I put in teh stubs to do lines, but not the intersect code
14:08.11``Erikthe shelling issue is that ellipsoid where I cut a cube out of it and it looked hollow inside
14:08.49``ErikI was instructed to ignore it and work on other things :/
14:08.52brlcadhow's that inverted?
14:09.06``Erikuhhhh, are you in the office?
14:09.15brlcadnot yet
14:09.28brlcadafter lunch
14:09.36``Erikok, on the, uh, web server, in my home dir is a metaballs dir, one of those pics shows the issue
14:09.56``Erikif I knew what it did what it did, it'd be fixed
14:10.15brlcadI get what you mean by it looking hollow, just not how that equates to inverted
14:10.28``Erikbut the shell thickness is an artifact of the 'step past' value
14:11.21``Erikprobably my ugly stepping algorithm being not quite right, it makes the first intersection, then imagines everything else to be below threshold or something
14:12.06iandaletteri.ve decide to go to sleep
14:12.09*** part/#brlcad iandaletter (n=asus@217.118.79.37)
14:12.21``ErikI assumed the water ball test meant it was all keen, I think I made a mistake there
14:13.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32808 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: expand the metaball items a little so I hopefully knows what they be later
14:14.26``Erikbah, I know what they mean, and no one else cares :D
14:14.42``ErikI thought I put verbose notes, uh, somewhere
14:16.25brlcadyou knowing what they mean doesn't help me (and I care:P)
14:16.52``Erikwell, with the shelling, if you subtract on it, it's not solid inside, it looks like a shell...
14:17.42``Erikand I was hoping to make lines and triangles valid control surfaces instead of simple points, so like a line could be run down a rotor blade or something
14:18.23``ErikI think I added an expandable last term to the struct with a second point as an example
14:19.23``Erikjust didn't add the distance logic in the code
14:20.06``Erikin theory, being able to call any arbitrary geometry a control surface would be gnarly
14:20.43``Erikbut the point strength function would need the ability to compute the distance to the nearest point on that surface
14:20.46claymore_did you just say 'gnarly' ?
14:20.58``Erikyes... yes I did... SHUT UP
14:22.07claymore_hahahaha
14:22.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32811 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/articles/oed/oed.xml: Oops - put the image links for oed back where they should be. This leaves only tire to fix up.
14:22.33brlcadmm, blobify a bot could be an interesting way to heal mesh geometry, close up thin gaps via medial-axis remeshing
14:24.27``Erikbe damn slow without excessive cleverness
14:24.49brlcadhealing geometry is a one-stop job usually
14:25.18``Erikalso; the pain of communicating that the right way to use that primitive to s2 is NOT to think of rays was... brutal
14:25.55``ErikI had to give her the zomfg drop in code twice
14:28.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32813 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: already covered a brief mged intro doc in the docs section below
14:28.31``ErikI'm out of funding for pushing adrt, but I think I need to keep doing it :/
14:30.18brlcadso do it
14:30.37brlcadthat's like the biggest payoff tool around atm
14:31.25brlcadif it "just worked", it'd be really useful even at slow refresh rates
14:32.24``Erikyeah, but I get yelled at for working on unfunded shit
14:32.59``Erikand I need to prove that I did awesome things for it, like, today, actually
14:34.00brlcadmaking it runnable would be a great way to do that ;)
14:34.07``Erikheh, it does run
14:34.12``Erikmost of it, anyways O.o
14:34.14brlcadit does?
14:34.20``Erikhas for six months
14:34.24``ErikI demo'd it to pjt
14:34.37``Erikwithout a fbsd cluster, even :D
14:35.06brlcadhow do you run it?
14:36.14``Erikum, you luck out by having a mysql database with the appropriate data, you run adrt_master, then 'adrt_slave localhost', and isst, tell isst all the right info
14:36.32``Erikcross your fingers, sacrifice a chicken, and mebbe you see a t62 or stryker
14:37.01brlcadheh
14:37.57``Erikcut view and shotline don't work yet, my next push is to let it grab a .g file and eliminate the mysql thing, then I might tie the rendering engine straight into the isst binary, so the entire network architecture becomes superfluous
14:38.46``Erika single 8 core mac pro runs like a fucking champ with insane geometry, I'm thinking the tide has turned against distributed once again
14:39.08brlcadmm, no isst binary
14:39.21brlcadthough adrt_* do seem to run without puking
14:39.35brlcadwhat's it doing if I don't have a db??
14:39.40``Erikit's not in the sf repo, some of the names are inappropriate
14:39.59``Erikadrt_master and adrt_slave will fire up, but once isst sends the load geometry command, it'll vomit
14:40.09``Erikisst is in svn on the, uh, internal web server
14:40.45``Erikthe only reason I haven't renamed things and made a .po file to unrename is because it uses gtk+
14:40.46brlcadworking on that sounds so much more interesting than ef
14:40.57brlcadneeds to stop procrastinating
14:41.12``Erikis a gtk+ app permissable in the BRL-CAD repo?
14:41.28brlcadgod, no
14:41.39``Erikthen there ya go, that's why you don't have isst
14:41.45brlcadi mean separate module, sure
14:41.56``Erikhrm, *ponder*
14:42.13``ErikI imagine moving it to libfb/tk would be nice
14:42.28brlcadcould even make it use ogre
14:42.30``Eriklee has argued that it cannot work since tk doesn't update fast enough, but I think he's blowing smoke
14:42.35brlcadthat'd probably be just as easy
14:42.46brlcadyeah, that sounds like hogwash
14:43.12``Erikwell, he's in brady mode, jumping up and down going "manta manta manta!"
14:43.21brlcadnow I'd believe libfb having some bottleneck in there depending on the buffering mode you go into
14:43.44``Eriktk's update frequence was the specific thing he zeroed in on
14:44.14``Erikand if it matters, libfb can be fixed
14:45.06brlcadif they can get this working, tk's not the problem:  http://www.eso.org/~archeso/skycat/rtd/rtd.4.html
14:45.27``Erikwhen you get in the office, make sure to hack src/adrt/slave/Makefile to have the mysql cflags, libs, and -DHAVE_MYSQL=1
14:45.41brlcadyeah, the performance in libfb is just silly memcpy'ing and inefficiencies that haven't ever mattered before
14:45.49``Erikand compile the isst binary with, uh, I think it's -DHAX=1
14:45.54brlcaddoesn't want mysql
14:46.09``Erikthat's the only way the slave nodes can acquire the data at the moment
14:46.25``Eriktwinky gutted the file approach and went all mysql
14:46.26brlcadhell, it'd probably be easier (for me at least) to hook in .g parsing than set up the mysql backend
14:46.43``Erikit's there, the db is on the amd64 fbsd box
14:46.50``Erikjust hack the makefile and go
14:46.56brlcadoh wow, xslt actually built the docs for me
14:47.35``Erikmaking it grok specially prepped .g files is my next big move, though
14:48.26``Erikwith the insane overhead of the tree generation, I'm half wondering if I need to add a 'last modified' field to all nodes :/
14:49.25``Erikso I can store the kdtree info in the .g itself, and only regenerate it on change
14:49.54brlcadholdy crapoldy, the doc html generation actually worked too
14:49.57brlcad~starseeker++
14:50.07brlcadprepped .g files?
14:50.13``Erikwait, what? cliff did something right? O.o
14:50.15``Erik:D
14:50.39``Erikyeah, all bot, with a special command to generate the kdtree cache
14:50.44claymore_be nice!
14:51.16brlcadadding a timestamp attribute to the database would be interesting to test .. our slick low-overhead I/O on .g's might get screwed a little, would need some testing
14:51.48brlcadotherwise, could simply just create some binary hash object that had the prepped kdtree and the hashes for the geometry they correspond to
14:51.50``Erikhey, cliff went from the land of hovercars that you tell your destination and sit back to the odd world of cranking the engine by hand to get it started... i'm surprised he's adapting to the primitive world so well
14:51.57brlcadthen you wouldn't need to change the geometry format
14:52.35``Erikmy fear is that I make an 'all.g
14:53.21brlcadi fear you doing that too
14:53.24``Erikin ktank, hit the funky buttons to make it all bots, get an all.f or whatever, generate th kdtree cache, move something and regenerate teh kdtree
14:53.52brlcadall.f ?
14:54.14``Erikbut if I don't think to regenerate the kdtree, it's irrelevant and suddenly I'm missing crap that should exist
14:54.18``Erikyeah, facets
14:54.23brlcadah
14:54.33``ErikI've taken to the behavior of calling facetized objects .f
14:54.38brlcadusually does *.bot
14:55.06brlcadlooks like a fortran object *shudder*
14:55.28``Erikjust wait until I start commiting geometry with .CBL objects
14:55.55brlcadmm.. combinatorial ballisic lethalities
14:56.07``Eriksure, if you wanna call cobol that
14:56.08``Erik:D
14:57.44brlcadstill, worrying about the kdtree time seems less-than-prioritous before .g's are first working
14:57.56``Erikuh
14:57.58brlcadlet 'em wait
14:58.04brlcadthey'll get it
14:58.08``Erikwe're talkin' overnight issues here
14:58.15brlcadhe had a fast one too
14:58.19``Eriklike, click the button on a friday, mayb e it's done by monday
14:58.26brlcadhis overnight was a pig
14:58.40brlcadand only gave a couple % iirc
14:58.49``Erikok, I just remember the stories of the full weekend grind
14:59.15brlcadyeah, he was proud (or amused) at how piggish he'd made it :)
14:59.24``Erikktank should be trivial, so my intent is to make it 'just work' with a facet representation
14:59.28``Erikthen move on to the saved cache
15:00.15``Erikthe timestamp idea is just to say when that saved cache is outdated
15:01.00brlcadstill wants to hook libtie behind rt_bot_*() and then hook rt_shootray into adrt
15:01.17``Erikyeah, that'd be a nice end state
15:01.30``ErikI've talked about doing both those things to various pointy hairs
15:03.04``Erikmy working notion has been that the tree generation would become a net loss if libtie were shoved into rt_bot without either serious isoliation (to eliminate it's utility) or significant modification to the tree generation
15:04.14``Erikbut I've argued long hard and uselessly that things like "time to market is more important than that last 1% of efficiency"
15:06.03``Eriktwingy, sir, you bitch, why didn't  ya document this better? not the i++; // increment i crap, but "this is how th enetwork protocol works" :D
15:09.36``ErikI cannot get this tegan and sarah song out of my head
15:10.52claymore_put your head through a window or wall... that might help!
15:11.15``Erik... ok, *erik smash* hi sandy! :>
15:11.28claymore_lol jerk!
15:11.34``Erikyoh, not YOUR window?
15:13.09claymore_Thats fine, as long as you pay for it.
15:13.51``Erikhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4THv5SYfBo&feature=related
15:19.53``Erikalso; how awesome is this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbJnwk3GBiM
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16:56.07claymore_lol she is a on person 'Stomp'
16:56.20claymore_wussed out on the headache...
16:59.22PrezKennedytegan and sarah? like doctor who?
16:59.43PrezKennedypokes ``Erik
17:29.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32814 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/bot_dump.c: Modify coedge output.
18:30.15mafmnight
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18:54.03brlcadhowdy Ralith, andrecastelo
18:54.14andrecastelohowdy brlcad :D
18:54.26brlcadtyped any good code lately? :)
18:54.40brlcadcode code type type
18:55.09brlcadwaits for an export to finish
19:03.46claymore_whatcha exporting?
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19:10.40brlcadverifying the size of the current repo
19:10.46Ralithhullo brlcad
19:11.20starseekeris probably to blame for most of the size increase...
19:13.11brlcadactually, i'm just on a slow wireless connection at the moment, that's partly to blame
19:13.22brlcadhasn't even gotten to doc yet :)
19:13.30starseekerew
19:13.38starseekerdoesn't care for slow wireless
19:14.00Ralithconcurs
19:14.02brlcadit's not anywhere near saturated, so I suspect it may be on sf's end
19:14.08Ralithstill, better slow than unstable
19:14.12starseekerbrlcad:  Oh, are the CCB scripts around here somewhere?  Ed wants me to learn "the process"
19:14.25starseekerbrlcad:  sf has been VERY slow of late
19:14.28brlcadsh/tracker.sh
19:14.52brlcadand sh/news2tracker.sh
19:15.05brlcadstart with those
19:15.19brlcadsince sf unveiled a new design, they may require tweaking
19:15.49brlcadthey invariably require little tweaks every few months, it's far from an automated process
19:15.55brlcadbut a lot of it is automatic
19:16.43brlcadnone of the formatting is automatic at this point (usually takes about a half-hour to format)
19:17.04starseekerok
19:17.40starseekerwinces at how long this will take with sf in its current state
19:18.07brlcadoh, it takes about 10 minutes to run regardless
19:18.15brlcadjust due to how it works
19:18.31brlcadit's the only way to get at the actual public data, though
19:18.37starseekerok
19:18.43brlcadread the headers/docs in those files
19:18.53starseekerwonders if sf could make this easier...
19:19.04brlcadyou don't want "everything" usually -- you find the number of days since the last time it was pulled and use that
19:19.18brlcadsf tried, but what they put in place wasn't as good
19:21.04starseekeruh - when was the last time we did a CCB?
19:21.08brlcadfyi, those scripts are entirely "not important" so you shouldn't put any more time into them other than to get them to work with a balance of manual repairs where needed -- they get attention as often as we do the review, no more .. otherwise, it's lost time
19:21.17starseekerhunts through email
19:21.20starseekerk
19:21.59brlcadthey're infrastructure scripts, any way hacked forward is a good way, improving as much as is warranted
19:22.16starseekerwon't get sucked into them
19:22.23brlcadthis next go-round, I was going to fix the html entities
19:22.52brlcadit'll bring in &amp; and other &; entities that are a couple quick regex/sed/perl replaces
19:23.09brlcadyou'll see what I mean when you open the report
19:24.05brlcadprepares to caffinate for the long haul tonight
19:24.05starseekerEeep
19:24.09starseekerjune
19:24.22brlcad~spell caffeinate
19:25.26brlcadthere's only been one arl distribution since then so it's reasonable
19:26.02starseekerthinks this script should be accompanied by a giant sucking sound...
19:26.15brlcadwhich one are you running?
19:26.33brlcadnews2tracker is decently quick
19:26.44starseekerthe other one
19:26.49brlcadtracker is the gaping hole .. but fun to run in verbose mode
19:26.58starseekergrins :-)
19:27.35starseekerDunno if you've seen email, Ed sent out an Oct. 9 date
19:28.04starseekerwill try and do grunt prep work so brlcad can do more important stuff
19:28.34brlcadit's on my cal
19:32.22brlcadyay, export completed
19:32.45brlcadabout 38 minutes, just under 200MB
19:33.02brlcaddoc is about 42MB
19:33.13starseekerow
19:33.28brlcadsrc is 120, regress is 10, pix 10, db 9
19:33.40brlcadso not too bad
19:34.03starseekerheh - can't wait til OGRE gets into the main tree :-)
19:34.21brlcadstill would be nice to generate all those images, though .. as part of the "compilation" process
19:34.32starseekernods
19:34.57starseekersome of the Vol II images would probably be pretty tough
19:35.15brlcadogre probably won't meet up the the 'brlcad' module any time soon -- intentionally keeping a clean separation between the OO layer and the procedural API
19:36.00Ralithstarseeker: what for?
19:36.11Ralith(OGRE, that is)
19:36.13brlcadnah, I can't think of any image that can't be generated (at least with a suitable replacement)
19:36.26starseekerRalith:  new GUI work (eventually)
19:36.37brlcade.g. the truck, use m35 -- the axes, import that axes model
19:36.57Ralithstarseeker: so iow you can't wait 'till the new GUI becomes usable?
19:36.57starseekerbrlcad:  I was thinking more about viewing angles and zoom
19:37.21brlcadthe mged screenshots might be tricky, but there may be a way to get tk to dump the drawing context
19:37.29starseekerRalith:  I'm just saying it's a big sucker - we don't NEED to import it for a while
19:38.10brlcadthe views don't have to be exact for most of them, tedious sure but doable and not too tricky
19:42.48starseekerbrlcad:  Um - what criteria is tracker.sh using to pull in items?  There are lots of open items here - don't we want only closed ones?
19:45.42``Erikdidn't we do one in spring?
19:45.57starseekerlast one was June
19:46.09``Erikoh, summer I guess
19:46.53``Erikusually brlcad goes over the closed ones and if we aren't all dead from boredom, starts on the open ones
19:48.05``Erikdarth boss loved the excessive minutae, I think most would prefer just a big hit grind for like 10 minutes, then a real dialogue for the rest
19:49.29``ErikI imagine claymore would have valuable insight as he's now sat in both rolls :)
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21:33.11starseekerprods CIA-4
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23:55.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r32816 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc9/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Removed bot2raw from the project build.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081002

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081002

01:02.44starseekerbrlcad: what were you worried about with the merging of the NEWS file from the 7.12.6 branch?
01:06.43starseekernevermind, I see
01:17.46Twingyheh
01:47.01brlcadpokes in
01:47.23brlcadstarseeker: there are options to pull only open, only closed, only closed with N days (that's what I usually use)
01:47.33brlcader, open and closed within N days
01:48.23starseekerOK, so anything that's appeared since the last CCB, and anything that's been closed since then as well?
01:48.24brlcadand yeah, ``Erik is spot on about detail -- they wanted even more than what that report generates (e.g. needs to include the entire discussion log)
01:48.49brlcadanything open (since it's still a prioritization issue) and anything closed since last ccb
01:49.03starseekerick.  OK, anything open
01:49.16starseekerI can pull the discussion logs - it'll take time though
01:49.19brlcadbut he's also right in that there's usually nowhere near enough time to go over everything .. it'd take all day to do more than skim
01:49.38brlcadI wouldn't worry about it, I've yet to include them
01:49.50brlcadunless you want to
01:50.13starseekerwill see how his patience holds out
01:50.25brlcadit would be a nice touch for someone that cared, but that will take probably an hour to do manually and probably a couple hours to properly script it
01:50.27starseekerWhat's the color code for formatting
01:50.42starseekerwould just pull the highlight discussions
01:50.43brlcadoh, hell, do you have the last one?
01:50.49starseekersomewhere
01:51.02brlcadcould use that as a guide -- that was done manually
01:51.16starseekermay not have survived the move - let me see
01:51.34starseekercan make something up, what with new head honcho and all...
01:52.00brlcadi usually highlight the high-priority ones, sort based on artifact type followed by status (closed/open) followed by priority .. or something like that
01:52.20brlcadusually alternating sections formatted so it's easy to read, etc
01:52.29brlcadfitted to A4
01:52.34starseekerA4?
01:52.42brlcadthe big paper
01:52.50starseekerI know - where do we print it around  here?
01:52.58brlcadprinter has it
01:53.03starseekerhuh.  OK
01:53.07brlcadphotocopier too
01:53.48starseekerbrlcad: I doubt I'll get through it tonight, but I'll try to have something ready for you to check by Mon. or Tues. next week
01:54.24starseekerwhat about the mailing list, if they want discussions?
01:55.05brlcadjust as a guide, I've usually spent no more than a couple hours improving the scripts each time and a half hour formatting
01:55.25starseekerscripts actually worked :-)
01:55.31brlcadkinda disgusting to spend more time preparing for the meeting than the meeting itself lasts, so no worries keeping it minimal
01:55.34brlcadgreat
01:55.47brlcadyou see the html entities that need to be replaced?
01:55.54starseekeryeah, I think I got em
01:55.57brlcadthey're in the comments
01:55.59brlcadah, ki
01:56.10starseekervim global search and replace ftw
01:56.26brlcaddon't include the mailing lists (or any of the discussion channels)
01:56.33starseekerright
01:56.38brlcadthat's not the ccb's business
01:57.18starseekeris bemused at the thought of the ccb going over an IRC discussion of ``Erik toasting people in forum based space wars
01:58.21brlcadthe primary point of the meeting is to simply review what has happened since the last review to 1) see what they might impact users (analysts, modelers, developers), 2) disseminate/share our changes so folks know about them, and 3) give our users a forum to provide feedback/questions/concerns
01:58.57brlcadbasically performing a peer review in a semi-open forum
01:59.14starseekerbrlcad:  heh.  OK.  I made the mistake of reading that CCB document Ed has defining the purpose of the CCB
01:59.47brlcadthere has been argument over that in the past, it's not actually right
02:00.05brlcadit started modeled after a different code that has an entirely different process
02:00.23brlcadorca's document is actually closer
02:00.33brlcadwe need to formally publish an updated version that is correct
02:01.04brlcadwhich basically amounts to the HACKING file with details about how things pertain to ARL
02:01.52brlcadthe controlling authority and "change approval" as presently worded is bogus
02:01.59starseekerI think Ed would feel better if we had a new one :-)
02:05.00brlcadthe biggest issue is that it's all overhead (a negative time sink) that could literally take months of time away from development if not careful
02:05.08starseekernods
02:05.10brlcadit's like the scripts -- they could easily turn into a nice/fancy tool
02:05.24brlcadbut ultimately, they're a negative on development .. even from a communication perspective
02:05.43starseekerI'll be very interested to see how the new boss works at the CCB - it should be instructive
02:06.38brlcad<PROTECTED>
02:06.55brlcadshe'll want to emphasize how to better get the word out
02:07.13brlcadsince arl users often don't pay attention to what we say, don't know what we do
02:07.32starseekerI think there'll be questions about how we set our priorities too
02:07.37brlcadit's a mild chicken n' egg problem
02:08.25starseekerfavors hauling them into the library's meeting hall and showing off :-P
02:09.04brlcadI did that one year
02:09.09yukonbobwaves in: "Hello, cadheads"
02:09.18starseekerwaste of time?
02:09.20brlcada couple dozen showed up, somewhat waste of time
02:09.22starseekerwaves back
02:09.27starseekernuts
02:09.54brlcadand took a fair bit of time to prepare, negative time sink
02:10.12brlcadthe real goal from our perspective is like most open source projects -- the demand is WAY higher than capacity
02:10.25brlcadit's all vaporware and talk until a product is actually *released*
02:11.01starseekernods. I would place a $10 bet that some open source education will be needed
02:11.14brlcadso that really is our best communication means -- getting the features out there sooner, fast/faster frequent iterations, make noise accordingly
02:11.44brlcadnot getting everyone's buy-in on what we're going to do beforehand, not micromanaging how we do what we do
02:12.03starseekerDwayne came by just today and mentioned some guys at LLNL (I think it was LLNL) were interested in building models with BRL-CAD
02:12.21brlcadwe talk plenty (here, on forums, on mailing list, in person) -- it's more about actually "getting things done"
02:12.39starseekerabsolutely
02:12.57starseekerhe was gonna send them tire.exe :-)
02:13.05brlcadcool
02:13.20starseekerforgot we don't have an exe on sourceforge that has tire
02:13.38brlcadis it hooked into the windows build?
02:13.56starseekerIt is now - that's actually a news item somewhere
02:14.06starseekerBob hooked in all the proc-db stuff, IIRC
02:14.18brlcadah, right
02:28.52starseekerbrlcad:  How do you sort this sucker?  By date of closure, then date opened for still open ones? keep the NEWS items in the front for a quick overview?
02:29.57brlcadpoints up
02:30.28brlcad21:55 <@brlcad> i usually highlight the high-priority ones, sort based on artifact type followed by status (closed/open) followed by priority .. or something like that
02:30.31brlcad21:56 <@brlcad> usually alternating sections formatted so it's easy to read, etc
02:30.37starseekerwhat's "artifact type" mean?
02:30.53brlcadthe type of line it is
02:30.53starseekerslaps self with wet noodle for not reading log
02:31.09brlcadNEWS, bug, feature request, patch, etc
02:31.15starseekerGotcha
02:31.19brlcadthere's a couple tricks to get it sorted neatly
02:31.28brlcadwant news first
02:31.36starseekersub-section column based sorting?
02:31.52brlcadi think descending on that column actually conveniently works out iirc
02:32.04starseekerCool.
02:32.07brlcadno, the sorts work out globally
02:32.23brlcadyou apply one rule-based filter set with two or three sort rules
02:32.51brlcadmight have used "category, priority, status" last time
02:33.18brlcadcareful to use the tracker ID number -- it shows up initially as a string
02:33.37brlcadI usually select the columns and set their data type where it matters
02:33.55brlcadso the dates are dates and not strings, so they sort properly
02:33.59starseekerAh.
02:34.12brlcad(if you wanted to sort by date, of course)
02:34.25brlcadI forget exactly which sorting works out best
02:34.48starseekerwill figure it out
02:35.13starseekerwonders if we can get Ed to "run the show"...
02:35.20brlcadthe point, though it to put the stuff done most recent first, and then go back in time .. emphasizing news then patches then closed bugs/feature requests/support, then everything else
02:35.47brlcadnah, I'll probably still do it
02:36.07brlcaded doesn't know what the items are, needs to be a dev that can talk to most of the items
02:36.15starseekernods
02:36.33starseekeris sorry he can't spare brlcad having so much time eaten up...
02:36.36brlcadthe information is incomplete, hard enough to remember what some of them are in the moment
02:36.56brlcadit's a fixed point cost so long as we don't promise to do more than absolutely necessary
02:37.00brlcadcouple times a year is fine
02:37.19starseekererm - should I take out the patches to rt^3 stuff?
02:37.22brlcadit's if we get signed up for it to be an even bigger negative time sync
02:37.37brlcadwere they tracker items?
02:37.44starseekeryeah
02:37.46brlcadsure
02:38.05brlcadit's a talking point showing open source contributions
02:38.15starseekerso leave em in?
02:38.23brlcadyeah
02:38.28starseekercool
02:39.08brlcadin the past, I've actually gone over each item and labelled whether they are an "open source contribution" or not .. but that does usually take another hour or so
02:39.24brlcadI'd only do that if we run into a problem
02:40.39brlcadrequires a bit of pontificating on the news items as to whether the change was done "on the clock" or off it for those of us that dip into the open source hobby time
02:40.50starseekernods
02:41.06starseekerrather not dig into that one, personally - gets too confusing :-)
02:41.32*** join/#brlcad zolcos (n=zolcos@aeheathe.resnet.mtu.edu)
02:43.05brlcadyeah, it's only if the bean counters need (or strongly want) the beans .. and it'll actually pay off and not just be a counting exercise
02:43.25brlcadwith W, it actually helped get the point across and the numbers still help to this day
02:43.36brlcadI just pulled stats for her last week, though the entire past year
02:43.39brlcadvery interesting
02:43.49starseekerheh
02:44.00starseekeryou mean your personal on/off clock?
02:44.04brlcadgoing to send a news announcement out, but basically about 6 staff years of contributed time this past year
02:44.11starseekerwow
02:44.23brlcadlevel of open source contributions is the meter usually, as well as overall activity
02:45.04brlcad70 distinct "features" contributed as open source
02:45.13brlcad(out of about 175 total)
02:45.26brlcad280 mailing lists posts :)
02:45.39brlcad(not including brlcad-commits or brlcad-tracker)
02:45.46starseekersurprised W is still tracking the numbers
02:46.18brlcadabout 220,000 measured downloads, which is an increase of 20% over last y ear
02:46.27starseekereeep
02:47.20brlcadthe one negative mark, though .. our average age of a tracker item increased from 484 days to 517 days by the end of the year (turn-around time)
02:47.34brlcadwhich means there are still more support requests coming in than are being handled
02:48.03starseekermust work faster
02:48.08brlcad:)
02:48.15brlcadcracks a whip on richard
02:49.25brlcadinterestingly, 110 new tracker items (bugs, patches, support, feature requests) came in and 128 were closed
02:50.23brlcad28/18 for open/closed on feature requests; 7/9 for support; 28/26 for patches; and 46/75 for bugs
02:50.36brlcadthe first is bad, the last is great
02:51.05starseekerto be fair, some of those feature requests are virtually meta-feature requests
02:52.27brlcadthat contributed manpower estimate is the most impressive -- it's not far from being on par with arl funding capacity, probably will exceed it as the community continues to grow
02:53.23starseekerthat's a pretty compelling stat
02:53.28brlcadgives it two years .. right about the time that the new interface is ready for production use to replace mged
02:56.05brlcadthinks the portage ebuild needs a kick
02:56.22starseekerneeds a friggin sledgehammer
02:56.44brlcadsomeone just posted an mged failure to find tk .. probably just a build setting
02:58.34starseekeris sure he'll probably have to manually insert a few items into this thing before the CCB - but it's nice to have it more or less "ready to go" ahead of time
02:59.07starseekeris still convinced the only way to get a proper BRL-CAD ebuild into portage is to become a gentoo dev
02:59.39brlcadthe important one to review are the comments/description on the news items since that's where the time is focused
03:00.09brlcadusually have to add a few commments, say how it relates to arl if it specifically impacts
03:00.35starseekernods
03:02.22zolcosHello. I'm with the acoustic project, I have a question--
03:02.43zolcosthe team has discovered how to fire rays, calculate distances, attenuation, and so on, but when we go to add the first usable feature (that is, point query), what interface options do we have?
03:02.51brlcadhowdy zolcos
03:03.22brlcadzolcos: you mean for displaying results of a calculation?
03:03.49zolcosYes, and for initiating a calculation.
03:03.52brlcadwhat sort of data/interface are you wanting to present?
03:04.37zolcosThe point query would just take in a x,y,z and output a single decibel level
03:04.43starseekeryick - 28 pages
03:04.48brlcadinitiating a calculation sounds like just a command, button, or menu item
03:07.35zolcosThat sounds right. How can I add new commands?
03:07.52Ralithzolcos: acoustic project?
03:07.54brlcadzolcos: if you want the user to interact with a 3D interface, you can hook into mged pretty easily -- our "nirt" command does almost exactly what it sounds like you're doing where (in mged) the user can either type "nirt" on the command line to get a queried result based on the view center, or they can click in the 3D view and get an interactive query along that ray
03:09.14brlcadzolcos: you can either hook in at compile-time (via C, which could let you embed practically any other scripting layer) or at run-time (via tcl, just a text file that is loaded)
03:09.28brlcadthe simplest/fastest is going to be the latter
03:09.37brlcadthe prior has a lot more power and integration options
03:10.02Ralithbrlcad: might not be the simplest/fastest if they're not familiar with tcl and/or have to hook it into some existing codebase
03:10.35brlcadwell yes, tcl knowledge is a prerequisite for the latter, though tcl scripting is pretty trivial -- sorta like php
03:11.03brlcadand you could even write a simple tcl proc that loads a compiled tcl extension (written in compiled language of choice)
03:12.47starseekerbrlcad:  OK, think I got it
03:13.15starseeker(sans going through news comments)
03:13.27brlcadfor what you guys are doing, since you have a C proggie that hooks into the brl-cad libs, I'd think a tcl proc would be the way to go and just have it exec your binary as a command-line command
03:13.50starseekerheads home - I'll probably have to leave sometime around 3pm tomorrow brlcad, just fyi
03:15.00zolcosI'm not sure I follow -- we don't actually have any code written yet, so our options are still completely open
03:16.37Ralithzolcos: brlcad has described options for adding your functionality to the mged interface
03:19.20brlcadzolcos: then what did you mean when you said you figured out how to fire rays, calculate distances, etc? :)
03:20.34brlcadyou can actually script brl-cad in pretty much any language by exec'ing nirt or one of the other tracers to query rays
03:21.02zolcosAh, that. We do have testing code and assorted functionality -- I thought you were saying we had an existing calculation module ready lol
03:21.03brlcad(or write your own tracer that hooks into our librt library)
03:21.22brlcadokay, so you do hook into librt and call rt_shootray() somewhere :)
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06:10.21brlcadawesome: http://www.google.com/search2001/search?hl=en&q=brl-cad&btnG=Google+Search
06:12.03brlcadhttp://web.archive.org/web/20010903134532/www.ornl.gov/etd/fha/.index.html
06:14.26brlcadhttp://web.archive.org/web/20010506080305/www.aro.ncren.net/mcsc/redbook/manocha.htm
06:14.49brlcadand the best find of all..
06:15.20brlcadcarl's original AnimMate tutorial .. since lost to the bits of time (thusfar, or at least until now)
06:15.26brlcadsnarfs and saves
06:21.30brlcadwow, includes manpages for three mged commands .. starseeker, you didn't write the first one (search) after all! :-)
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07:19.14Ralithbrlcad: did BOOLE get intergrated?
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08:35.47claymore_yawns & digs in to a bowl of apple jacks.
08:36.31claymore_Just spent 30 minutes reading everything that happened in irc since I logged for the night.  Busy eh?
08:36.41claymore_brlcad:  Still up and working?
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09:00.17mafmhi
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10:55.06claymore_hi mafm!
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11:01.46iandaletterstarseeker: http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/books/tutorial_series/ ....xml which file? I has somehow forgot it...
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12:25.20claymore_erik:  You gonna be in today are you still feeling bum?
14:22.54claymore_Guess not eh? :)
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15:23.49narothhi everyone, I'm looking for some reference material for using ray-tracing. Does anyone have some links that would be useful?
15:31.39iandaletternaroth: ray-tracing in general? Could be www.blender.org - their manuals
15:32.22iandaletter``Erik: create sm
15:33.20narothwell I was referring to using the BRL CAD ray tracing functions. I have the source downloaded but now I'm just looking for something that will give me an idea on how to use the rt library.
15:33.45iandaletteri can not advice something
15:35.11iandaletter``Erik: create banana smoothie with apples and parsley, totaling in half-a-gallon. Or you will jump as a goat, or you will be a scapegoat at your disease. Your choice.
15:35.54iandaletter``Erik: http://www.sunfoodpages.com/forum/ultimatebb.php
15:40.30starseekeriandaletter:  Do you have a sourceforge account?
15:41.06starseekerProbably the best way to handle translations is to go ahead and commit them to the repository
15:41.19iandaletterstarseeker: no, because i pay  us $ for 10 mb aday, 5 mb at night. web-serfing is... not really for me
15:41.34iandaletterstarseeker: ?
15:42.06starseekerUm.  Sourceforge is where BRL-CAD's main repository is stored and we use subversion to make updates to it
15:42.17iandaletterwhat is a link to that .xml file? /doc/docbook/... ? I has forgot it
15:42.20starseekeryou can get a sourceforge account free
15:42.33iandaletterlet me send updates to you... at least at start of all
15:43.17starseekeroh, um... - this is a good example xml file:  http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/search.xml?view=log
15:43.35starseekeriandaletter:  Ok, if you'd prefer to send them to me that's great
15:43.36iandaletteri know, but in internet, i'm usually in IRC... Later, when the market will be able to offer it, i will have bought probably 3G-modem...
15:44.13iandaletterok, i will see the example soon at after my midnight
15:44.59starseekeriandaletter:  That file is pretty much the style we're going to use for all commands, one file per command - if you'd prefer to just translate existing pages that's OK too, I can sort it out
15:45.28iandaletterwill see...
15:45.29starseekeriandaletter:  You don't HAVE to have every section that search has, search is pretty extensive
15:45.53starseekeriandaletter:  Thank you for your interest in working on this
15:46.13*** part/#brlcad naroth (n=naroth@stoker.csl.mtu.edu)
15:47.32iandaletterstarseeker: i actually wanted a chance to be in "they have somehow helped" section of the book of BRL-CAD - i.e. wanted to show it to my 'employer'. but nevermind
15:48.31starseekeriandaletter:  why nevermind?  You're definitely going to be contributing
15:49.01starseekerindividual docbook files are built up into larger books
15:50.01iandaletterok, later we will have a time for different "proposals", "benefits", "fame", "girls", dirt money, big money, cars and so on...
15:51.15starseekerbrlcad handles the management of the credit sections (like AUTHORS file here http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS?view=log) and he keeps track of who is doing work - he will not miss your efforts
15:51.33iandaletterok!
15:52.57starseekeronce we start getting them integrated into BRL-CAD proper, of course :-)
15:54.06starseekerdecides not eating one meal was a mistake, and not eating two would be a worse mistake...
15:55.06iandaletteri don't really know much about it yet, i mean about the world of open source... night builds and so on... Don't have cheap internet connection... But i will probably have it soon... even thru mobile cell phone.
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15:56.20iandaletterstarseeker: eat sauerkraut with steamed potato. And drink cognac, or some beer. but don't become an alcohol-addicted. ;)
15:56.58starseekeractually doesn't drink - his brain malfunctions enough without any help
15:57.08starseekerok, lunch
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15:57.39iandaletterok, almost midnight
15:58.00iandaletterthe world and mother earth is wonderful
16:03.47docelicmorn'
16:10.40brlcadaw, no ralith
16:11.22brlcadiandaletter: sending folks that come looking for ray-tracing to another ray-tracer when we do ray-tracing doesn't exactly help :)
16:12.08iandaletterok :-X
16:14.14brlcadworking on the docs definitely helps though ;)
16:14.26brlcadhowdy docelic
16:26.32iandaletterdocelic: at least you, listen to me: you need to be raw vegan, you must like smoothies and nuts and salads and probably milk, but it disagrees with www.peta.org
16:27.42docelicseems youre outta luck today, pal
16:29.02iandaletterno, i'm ok - even advise it sometimes. Fell comfortable and young. don't sweat. do sport. (I do)
16:29.37iandaletteractually, it's too much of typing today - and i feel myself crazy!
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18:13.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32817 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/bot_dump.c: Mods to fix output of binary stl. Minor cleanup.
18:17.00louipcwe can get fame, girls, and big money from contributing to open source? since when?
18:26.34brlcad'bout '98
18:28.40iandaletterbattery ends
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18:42.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32818 10/brlcad/trunk/ (92 files in 23 dirs): Shift English docs into en subdirectories in preparation for multi-lingual documentation.
18:48.26``Erikwait, what? I've been doing it for a long time, do you have to fill out a form to get the fame, girls and big money?
19:04.05claymore_erik:  howya feelin?
19:04.10``Eriksurviving :D
19:05.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32820 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/bot_dump.c: Added -u option for units and removed the -i option.
19:08.47mafmgoes to try to cure his half-flu to home
19:08.50mafmtake care
22:21.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32821 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/README: update notes on docbook
22:38.37starseekerah, nuts - forgot that pdf generation needs to know where the images are from the xml.  OK, need to restructure install paths too and change the image links.  (grumble...)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081003

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081003

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02:05.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32822 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (35 files in 11 dirs): Update image links and html install paths to allow both pdf and html to work again.
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06:22.26brlcadwaves
06:27.06Ralithwaves
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11:08.02claymore_So brlcad, did you make it asleep before your second wind kicked in?
12:26.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32823 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/bot_dump.c: Modified to accept optional bot objects. If provided, dump only the specified bots.
12:45.32brlcadsorta, woke up after just a couple hours
14:38.57yukonbobmorning, cadheads
16:12.55brlcadwonders if claymore knows he's running irssi three times
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17:06.52``Erikheh, screen is hard :D
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17:27.13brlcadinterestingly, he's only running screen once, so he must be running it in multiple windows
17:35.18starseekermaybe he's got one screen per channel, rather than using multiple windows in irssi?
17:35.27starseekerer one irssi per channel?
17:35.38brlcaddunno, that'd be odd
17:36.42``Erikor mebbe he's on 3 different networks
17:37.10``Erikae has its own irc server, and his cybermistress is probably on dullnet or something ;) *duck*
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18:12.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32824 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcSolver.h pcVariable.h solver_test.cpp): code cleanup; still figuring out why domain space iteration using atCriticalBelow fails if initial value is at the boundary
18:21.43brlcadirssi handles multiple simultaneous networks just fine
18:39.41``Erikyeah, but he may not be familiar with the mechanisms
18:57.17brlcadwoot, madant update
19:09.23``Erik"madant"?
19:11.17brlcad~seen madant
19:11.20ibotmadant <n=d@117.196.137.142> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 50d 19h 24m 14s ago, saying: 'ok done. i didnt even realise i had modified pc.h . I thought i was working in libpc directory only. usually i always commit from the root folder.. grr.. my bad :D'.
19:11.35brlcadfyi, I just booked a room at the Domain
19:11.42brlcad~seen homovulgaris
19:11.43ibothomovulgaris <n=d@117.196.131.215> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 53d 15h 19m 12s ago, saying: 'sean, on a scale of 1 to 10 how much trouble would one face when trying to make a .deb package for brlcad ?'.
19:12.05``Erikcoo'
19:12.41``Erikdidn't recall seeing him as madant
19:13.09brlcadwould have gotten wild palms, but I ain't spooning and you probably don't want to sleep on a rollout :)
19:14.10``Erikmeh, coulda just dumped you in the bathtub *shrug*
19:17.21brlcadset it up to check in friday, check out monday
19:18.36``Erikaight, I'll bug ya about that when bc is in office to get my paperwork set up
19:29.55brlcad``Erik: would you rather arrive a day earlier or stay later or do you not care?
19:30.23brlcadwouldn't mind taking another day off work to relax while out there
19:31.54``Erikdoesn't matter to me, they're only paying for 2 nights, right? what's cost per night?
19:32.18brlcad109
19:32.31``Erikthat's not bad for silly valley
19:32.48``Eriklast time I was down there, I think it was three hundred and something
19:36.00``Erikstarseeker, asdf wrapped package, I have a (let inside a function, when I try to use the variable, it complains that package:variable isn't around, is there some magic fu I'm missing? O.o
19:36.26brlcadwould be another day to relax, recover from flight, not be at work, get some coding done, etc
19:45.10brlcad``Erik: aiight, arriving thursday now then too, cool?
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20:42.27brlcadhello berndj
20:44.04brlcadhowdy poolio
20:44.06brlcad:)
20:46.45``Eriksure *shrug*
20:55.23brlcadaiight
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21:45.49pooliobrlcad: howdy :)
21:45.51pooliobrlcad: how goes it?
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21:46.13```Eriko.O
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081004

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081004

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01:59.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r32825 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/bspline.c:
01:59.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: rt_nurb_plot() calls rt_nurb_s_refine() with a "refined" knot vector. However,
01:59.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: if the refined knot vector is smaller than the original knot vector, the oslo
01:59.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: calculation will fail. This modification checks for that condition, and does
01:59.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: not call rt_nurb_s_refine() in that situation.
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17:48.28tony-hHello. I'm looking at the Tcl code for mged... how can I add a new command that the command-line will recognize?
18:27.42brlcadtony-h: you can just create a new tcl proc
18:28.28brlcadtony-h: you can register a C function as a tcl command as well for compile-time additions
18:30.01brlcadif you just want something scripted and quick to iterate on as a tcl script, you can just write up a proc, put it in a file, and source that file within mged and it'll be available -- you can get auto-sourcing by adding the source to any of mged's tclscript dirs and rebuilding the tclIndex for that directory
18:30.50tony-hAh. That sounds like what I was trying to do, but how do I rebuild the tclIndex?
18:31.04brlcadif you're making a proper patch/contribution/enhancement that'll get committed to svn, that'll all happens fairly automatically
18:34.04brlcadthe easiest way to rebuild the index if you built/installed brl-cad yourself is to put your file into src/tclscripts/mged, add it to src/tclscripts/mged/Makefile.am, mv tclIndex tclIndex.backup, make, make install
18:34.36brlcadOR .. just edit the tclIndex file directly where brl-cad is installed with a line to source your script
18:35.56brlcadsomething like "set auto_index(test) [list source [file join / path to your test.tcl]]" .. if you had a proc named 'test' in a /path/to/your/test.tcl directory
18:36.37brlcadmake sense?
18:37.12brlcadit's usually much easier to just "source test.tcl" while you're developing the proc, resourcing after each edit
18:40.33tony-hSounds simple enough. I'm not familiar with what 'source' does though
18:40.54brlcadit just loads the file
18:41.43brlcadtcl is a rather pure command interpreter -- sourcing a file in is no different than if you typed that in on the command prompt
18:41.58brlcadcreating a new command in tcl is very trivial, example:
18:42.05brlcadproc howdy {} {
18:42.09brlcad<PROTECTED>
18:42.10brlcad}
18:42.19brlcadnow you have a new command
18:44.15brlcadsrc/tclscripts/mged/get_regions.tcl has a fairly simple example of a "get_regions" command that searches geometry objects of a particular type (regions) by recursively walking the geometry hierarchy
18:44.54tony-hOkay. So if I take the file with my new command in it, and add it to src/tclscripts/mged/Makefile.am and run make again, it will be an available command in mged?
18:46.06brlcadyou'll have to move/remove the tclIndex in that directory, make, and make install, butyes
18:46.59brlcadsrc/tclscripts/mged/remat.tcl is a "remat" command that uses "get_regions" to set a material property on a set of objects (as just another example)
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18:47.17brlcadhowdy jjsimon-mtu
18:47.23jjsimon-mtuhello
18:49.35tony-hjjsimon and myself are in the lab right now working on the acoustic project
18:49.49brlcadpresumed as much ;)
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19:19.29narothHi, I'm looking to include a new .c file into the make process for brlcad. Where in the makefile should I be making changes?
19:21.37tony-hnaroth is making the raytrace program that gets called by our tcl script
19:21.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32826 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
19:21.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: john fixed a bug in the bspline/nurbs surface where plot would fail. the
19:21.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: problem as he tracked it down was that the Oslo calculation was failing because
19:21.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: the refinement knot vector was smaller than the original knot vector. this was
19:21.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: a condition not being tested for, causing a crash. now it correctly halts
19:21.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: refinement.
19:25.30brlcadnaroth: you would do that by adding it to the mged_SOURCES directive in src/mged/Makefile.am
19:26.13naroththanks, I'll look around there for a bit then
19:34.38narothare new files that I create and want to make with the rest of the program supposed to have a main function?
19:39.33tony-hmake is giving him an error for multiple definitions of main, but the example rt_example.c has one.
19:44.36brlcadit depends what you're compiling
19:45.09jjsimon-mtuhe pretty much copied rtexample.c, changed a few lines, and wants to build it now
19:45.22brlcadif you're wanting to add a new application to the build system, it has to be listed under a PROGRAMS line and have a SOURCES variable for just that application
19:45.49brlcadah, then you should replicate what rtexample.c has in src/rt/Makefile.am in src/rt
19:47.06brlcadi.e. list your 'yourapp' application under bin_PROGRAMS, then have a yourapp_SOURCES declaration
19:48.50jjsimon-mtuok, thanks we're trying that now
19:58.06jjsimon-mtuso do we change lines in /src/rt/Makefile.am or /src/mged/Makefile.am?  In other words, which file do we add 'yourapp' to the bin_PROGRAMS and yourapp_SOURCES lines?
20:02.16brlcadyou can add it whereever you want really
20:02.45brlcadjust affects where/when it gets compiled in the build tree
20:04.14narothlooks like make worked, running make install now.  Thanks for help
20:05.57brlcadthis does a decent job at explaining a standard gnu build system setup:  http://www.seul.org/docs/autotut/
20:06.15brlcadparticularly relevant, the 5. Write a Makefile.am section
20:18.07*** part/#brlcad naroth (n=naroth@dumbo.csl.mtu.edu)
20:26.52tony-hI'm looking at the way a tcl script invokes a C binary. I think understand the form -- set result [catch { exec $cmd $x $y } error] -- but when result is inspected, it looks like all that you get back is a return code. How do you get more information from the binary command? Is there a way to grab its standard-out?
20:50.44``Erikhttp://www.freakingnews.com/Inverted-Celebrities-Pictures--1754-0.asp o.O
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23:39.23brlcadtony-h: puts $error
23:39.55brlcadwhen you catch an exec, the output goes to the variable
23:40.41brlcad(stderr and stdout)
23:47.00tony-hOh! The reference material I was looking at made it sound like catch only collected stderr. I was starting to think I would have to deal with file redirection >_>
23:52.59brlcadfyi, bu_log() outputs to stderr
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081005

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081005

01:06.56*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
03:16.13CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32827 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (Makefile.am objdir.h): removed unused objdir.h header
03:44.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32828 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.h: need dg.h for struct dg_obj
03:45.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32829 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (chgview.c mged_dm.h): get rid of MINVIEW define, use RT_MINVIEWSIZE
03:57.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32830 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (cmd.h edsol.c mged.h): get rid of more unnecessary and unused crap. begone MGED_EXTERN too.
03:59.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32831 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/edsol.c: don't need use BU_EXTERN for local decls
04:01.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32832 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (mged.c mged.h): 'identity' matrix is no longer used. the cool kids are all using bn_mat_identity.
04:06.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32833 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.h: more unused begonnage
04:15.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32834 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/utility1.c: stray identity
04:22.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32835 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/utility1.c: quell constness warnings
04:26.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32836 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (Makefile.am hideline.c mged_dm.h):
04:26.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: enable compilation of the former 'hideline' functionality and f_hideline
04:26.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: callback for an 'H' command. it's not clear to me just quite yet what exactly
04:26.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: this even does as it's untested, but it is at least no longer 'dead' code.
04:26.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: cursory review seems to be that it's shooting rays for all vlist segments
04:26.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: producing some sort of plot file as a result.
04:30.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32837 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/hideline.c: quell warnings
04:34.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32838 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged_dm.h: clean up alignment, remove PI
04:37.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32839 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (Makefile.am editobjGui.h): remove editobjGui.h .. it doesn't seem to be used anywhere
04:39.50brlcadstarseeker: hm, in src/mged there is actually already a simple html display setup that was started (but obviously never finished)
04:42.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32840 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (Makefile.am icreateGui.h): remove the (apparently) unused icreateGui.h too
04:48.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32841 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (Makefile.am sunicon.h): dm-sun is gone, so sunicon should die too
04:51.58CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32842 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (Makefile.am vgdev.h): Our hats are off to you General Vector, sir. Thank you for all the fond memories and vectorish goodness.
05:06.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32843 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (Makefile.am cad_boundp.c cad_parea.c vld_std.h): get rid of doug gwyn's rather unnecessary vld_std.h header wrappings for 'standard C programming definitions'
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05:47.54pacman87brlcad: ping
05:53.42brlcadpacman87: pong
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06:50.22yukonbob.
07:33.44*** part/#brlcad pacman87 (i=127@resnet-45-219.dorm.utexas.edu)
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15:07.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32847 10/brlcad/trunk/src/vdeck/ (Makefile.am vproc.c): remove the duplicate vproc.c, which seems to be fully replaced by (nearly identical) routines in vdeck.c .. looks like a renamed file that was never removed.
15:19.33louipcholy smokes
16:53.26``Erikhttp://viewaskew.com/press/dogma.html   hilarious
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081006

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081006

01:13.05starseekerbrlcad:  It looks like the distinguishing feature of tkhtml3 is it's ability to handle css.
01:19.18starseekernotes that the brlcad ebuild has evolved somewhat, but wonders why it's depending on itcl/itk when it can't use system versions right now
01:57.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32848 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tk/generic/tkBind.c:
01:57.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: apply the patch provided via the gentoo ebuild tracker (Comment #124 From
01:57.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: Facundo de Guzman 2008-10-05 16:57:24 0000) (attachment id=167322). This patch
01:57.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: fixes an issue with the new Xorg-server 1.5 and Tk where it reportedly causes a
01:57.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: runtime event error.
04:43.06yukonbob?link
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08:30.50brlcadlink?
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10:49.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32849 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/table.c: ew, rt_binunif_get shouldn't be taking a Tcl_Interp .. all of the rt_*_get routines should take a bu_vls for logging. fortunately, just the decl was wrong. quells compilation warning.
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11:08.32brlcadwoot
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11:08.41brlcadgot rid of the riff raff
11:09.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32850 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
11:09.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: stub in initial functionality for supporting points that optionally have
11:09.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: per-point color, scale, and normal data while remaining a memory-compact
11:09.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: representation using exactly no more than necessary (allowing datasets only
11:09.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: limited by the size of available memory). don't yet implement support for
11:09.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: reading in or using the extra data just yet, but the container is there now.
11:09.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: later might also want to add support for allowing binunif as the data source.
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11:16.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32851 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: these are not likely going to happen within two releases
11:27.34mafmhallo
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11:39.57claymorehai!
13:39.34*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
13:39.34*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || The 2008 Google Summer of Code is complete! -- Thanks deserved to all of our students! || (Source) Release 7.12.6 posted 2008-08-19 || Mailing lists are now reply-to-list instead of reply-to-sender by default
18:26.46starseekerstarts following the threads of MGED's help system
18:35.56``Erikstares at the amusing ways brlcad broke libged
19:02.31starseekerwonders if we're planning to move to an OGRE based GUI at some point in the future, whether it might make sense to move the "help" information associated with functionality moving to libged out of MGED and into something that can be called by any interface using libged
19:06.26starseekerIs the doxygen output from BRL-CAD online anywhere?
19:20.53starseekerbrlcad:  is the intention at some point to add doxygen doc building to the build process the same way docbook doc building has been added?
19:25.40``Erikat one point, it was buried somewhere on brlcad.org
19:26.23starseekerOh, here we go:  http://brlcad.org/mirror/doxygen
19:26.27starseekerthanks ``Erik
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19:47.24pooliohowdy all
19:47.39pooliostarseeker: oo, some of the dependency graphs are purty :)
19:48.15starseeker:-).  Lot of work to do there - if I'm understanding this correctly, we shouldn't have any .c files with comments that are ending up in that sucker
19:50.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32854 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am rt.xml): Add rt.xml - worked on by Janine Gettier
19:51.13starseekerpoolio:  The rt_i data structure graph is pretty cool
19:51.46``Erikhrm, none of the bugs or feature requests look like five minute hacks. :/ bummer
19:52.02starseekeragrees
19:52.24comicsstarseeker: * ar4545fb /checl/your/mail (Right.now): New mail
19:52.25``Eriksoooo, I'll promptly ignore them all and do something else, instead :D
19:52.49starseekerwhat mail?
19:52.59``ErikPO box ..
19:53.03comicsmine
19:53.38``Erik$ less /var/spool/mail/comics
19:54.34comics$ yes /opt/off cause
19:54.48starseeker``Erik /var/spool/mail doesn't seem to be there
19:55.07comicsi will fight with .xml with gedit
19:55.30``Erikdepends on the os you use,, many linux breeds went nonstandard and moved stuff from /var/spool/mail to /var/mail many years ago, starting with debian I believe
19:56.25``Erikfbsd followed the fruitiness :(
19:57.03starseekercommics:  Oh, web mail
19:57.09starseekercomics rather
19:57.19starseekersounds good
19:57.55comicsok
19:58.23starseekerThe mged commands file will get broken up in english too - lots and lots of doc work ahead
19:58.32starseekerand that doesn't even count reviewing it all :-(
19:58.52starseekerneeds to get working on Drupal module
19:59.12starseekeronce he figures out how the heck to used tkhtml3 inside mged...
20:00.01starseeker(workmode:set 'workmode:go-crazy :tcl-tk)
20:00.17comicsmged: about 400 comands i guess, each about 5-8 lines - well, i will see thru search.xml... Will add english and save, then save again
20:00.57comicsand new commands... update to version 7.12.*
20:01.24``Erik(send 'starseeker '(asdf:oos asdf:load-op addlithptomged)))
20:01.24starseekercomics:  brlcad was listing all commands a little while back - he might have a list handy
20:01.37comicsPrezKennedy: howz your wife, hilarious ?
20:02.04starseeker``Erik:  ERROR - STACK OVERFLOW.  Core dump.
20:02.17``Erikscheme woulda done it :> *duck*
20:02.53starseekerNah, try sending it to 'Erik instead - there may be more resources available there
20:03.06comicsstarseeker: ? MGED_cmd_index.html - 7.10 - all what i have. I gues you will add .xml files to real site - and we will have added them all, finally
20:03.12PrezKennedygently nudges comics as he's walking down the stairs
20:03.18PrezKennedywhoops...!
20:03.26``ErikBOFH'd!
20:04.29``Erikand I don't mean the new kindler gentler bofh, I mean classic style, yo :D airtight tape safes, connecting mains to floor plates, etc
20:04.54pooliostarseeker: I prefer the nmg edge one :)
20:05.33comicscomics: smiles, and his X-man's like smile take him avay up the stair. He kicks the president with his leg with words "As to el Wista".
20:06.10PrezKennedybreaks out Windows Vista CD
20:06.14PrezKennedystand back or ill use it
20:09.08comicscomics: rolls and break the whole building! Everybody are in the heaven, and part of people - are in hell by now. The end of the story
20:16.37``Erikah, russian?
20:23.43comicsah?
20:24.32comicssame old comics911.wordpress.com, but there's nothing new in there
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20:53.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r32855 10/brlcad/trunk/Makefile.am: fix for out of dir build (doxygen)
21:18.01*** part/#brlcad comics (n=asus@217.8.236.152)
23:03.19``Erikwonders where claymore got off to O.o
23:03.39``ErikI'm imagining brlcad is still passed out
23:12.11louipcstarseeker: you're putting docs for each mged command into a separate file?
23:59.06claymoreis hanging out at home. Had a surprise visit from some inlaws :/
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081007

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081007

00:00.49``Erikoh yay :)
00:05.01``Eriklearn something new about submariners every day :> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=985373&cid=25264311
00:05.03``Erik*duck* *run*
00:08.36``Erikapparently, research time is dictated by the number of research labs you had at the beginning, adding more during research does NOT change the duration
00:09.58``Erikon the up side, you can downgrade all the way down to the minimum number for the current level without impacting it as well
00:27.15starseekerlouipc:  That's the idea
00:31.08starseekerThe individual files can be xincluded into a convenient larger document, and the individual ones can generate things like man pages
00:36.51starseekereventually, there should be very little distinction between "command line" and "mged" commands - the latter can usually be run from the command line if they make sense, and a unified system of documentation simplifies a lot
00:49.58starseekerthe new docbook "one per command" files are intended to serve the purpose of man pages, and one of their output formats actually IS man
00:50.22starseekerthe nice part is we also get other formats (like html and pdf) for free
00:50.56starseekerhtml in particular will be handy - I'm currently looking at ways to get MGED to display html pages
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00:58.29mafmhi Ralith
00:58.42mafmand good night all, I go to sleep :)
01:18.18``Erikstarseeker is just itching to see the dreaded "filesystem out of inodes" message
01:27.01starseeker``Erik:  suck it up, BSD man ;-)
01:29.52``Erikheh, all *nix have that issue, dude O.o
01:30.13starseekerI know, but surely the leet BSD hackers will get around it
01:31.04``Eriksure, we just create fs's with more inodes *shrug* even linux can do that, but it requires a newfs
01:31.15``Erikuh, mkext2fs for you leenewx weenies :)
01:34.53starseekerwill switch to opensolaris and the almighty ZFS
01:35.40``Erikum, hrm, I d'no if zfs has the ability to tweak inode count on the fly O.o (but fbsd does fully support zfs, and mostly supports dtrace!)
01:35.41``Erik:D
01:35.43starseekereyes Tokeneer project with interest
01:36.19starseekerheh - BSD license is nice sometimes
01:37.12starseekerREALLY doesn't understand the appeal of 3D television
01:37.54starseekercan only see 2D without moving around - how can the couch potato adapt to such an environment
01:40.41``Erikimmediately patents a moving barka
01:41.02``Erikbarcalounger
01:41.09``Erik:D
01:43.26starseekerthat would be a patent worth framing
01:44.00``Erikdoes scifi count as prior art? O.o
01:44.25starseekerwished it did - probably depends on the circumstances
01:45.02starseekerstill wants to contact the dude who has the cat laser pointer patent after it expires and purchase the original document
01:46.55Ralithstarseeker: is your depth perception borken?
01:47.09starseekereh?
01:47.18Ralithstarseeker: also, what about DragonflyBSD and it's shiny new HammerFS?
01:47.25Ralith18:37:53  * starseeker can only see 2D without moving around
01:47.43starseekerdepth perception is deduced based on two dimensional information
01:47.54Ralitheveryone else can see full 3D while sitting still
01:48.01Ralithwhy do you think we have two eyes :P
01:48.24starseekerSure, but the benefits of 3d television are minor unless you move around it
01:48.39starseekeryou're losing most of the information due to a limited vantage point
01:49.00starseekerIt might make more sense with a holographic sterogram type display
01:49.18RalithI'm not personally interested in a multi-PoV 3D display
01:49.24Ralithbut I would love to have a depth-capable display.
01:49.35starseekerthat's different
01:49.36Ralithe.g. stereo glasses
01:49.41starseekernods
01:49.51Ralithwants a nice high res pair, but it'll be forever before he can afford one :(
01:49.58starseekeramen
01:50.00Ralithat least by the time I buy one, hardware to drive it will be cheap
01:51.14starseekerAh yes, here it is:  http://www.google.com/patents?id=OfwkAAAAEBAJ&dq=5443036
01:51.20RalithI have this deep-set desire to custom-build and integrate an enhanced-reality set in a car.
01:51.28starseekermy favorite monument to the flaws of the US patent system
01:51.52starseekerRalith:  Heh - there was this ride at universal studios that was pretty good at that...
01:52.23Ralithoh?
01:52.34starseekerI think it was back to the future relate
01:52.35starseekerd
01:52.58starseekerI may have been too young to really appreciate its flaws though
01:54.05RalithI'm obsessed with the potential useful||entertaining aspects of something actually built to help you out
01:54.11Ralithlots of fun to think about
01:54.25starseeker:-)
01:54.51starseeker's particular fun with thought experiments is renewable energy and efficient house design
01:55.13Ralithlacks sufficient technical knowledge to cover that sort of area
01:55.15Ralithalso, bbs
01:55.44starseekerdidn't say he had sufficient knowledge either ;-)
01:56.16Ralithhehe
02:17.09louipcstarseeker: cool. I wonder if it could somehow be integrated into the mged help system
02:17.25louipcthat would be sweet
02:20.17Ralith</bbs>
02:20.59Ralithstarseeker: what *would* make a multi-PoV display neat is if it was opaque and projected in such a way that you could walk in the middle of it without interrupting anything
02:24.30louipchttp://www.ipwatchdog.com/patent/animal-toy/
02:24.39louipcthis one is awesome
02:43.32``Erikcould be worse, starseeker, check out australias awesomeness http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/auspac/07/02/australia.wheel/
04:18.31brlcadfixes libged
04:23.24brlcadiirc, there are about 300 mged commands, 400 unix command-line commands
04:25.20brlcadthere's a couple ways to ask mged for the list of all commands, e.g. info commands
04:36.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32856 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/rtgeom.h src/libged/make.c src/mged/typein.c): need to update the pnts in use in libged as well for the make command. prefix all of the pnts types with RT_ since they are (presently) part of the API that you have to go through to use them.
04:40.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32857 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS:
04:40.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: add janine gettier to the contributors list for her help with documentation.
04:40.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: she's worked on reviewing some documents in the past but has stepped up
04:40.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: contributions recently with the work on docbook integration with cliff.
04:55.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32858 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
04:55.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: bob improved mesh normals from Pro/E exporter. he said that it seems like
04:55.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: they're exporting with a left-hand orientation, so the bot is now created
04:55.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: accordingly set as lh or unoriented depending on whether there are normals
04:55.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: available during export.
06:30.32brlcadbooyah
06:30.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32859 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS TODO bench/Makefile.am bench/benchmark.1 bench/run.sh):
06:30.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: greatly improved the usability of the benchmark suite by providing additional
06:30.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: processing commands including not doing anything by default any more unless the
06:30.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: 'run' command is requested. added detailed usage and instruction commands along
06:30.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: with updated manual page to match. the options that control how the benchmark
06:30.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: behaves can now also be specified on the left or right side of the 'benchmark'
06:30.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: command as well on the command-line.
06:33.07brlcadshould docify doc/benchmark.tr and bench/benchmark.1 into one (unified) document at some point
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10:11.33brlcadhowdy mafm
10:13.32mafmhi brlcad
10:14.01mafmI'm under attack of micro-bugs, as my flatmates calls them :P
10:14.07mafmother than that, pretty well
10:15.04brlcadsick?
10:16.48mafmyup
10:17.54mafmcold/flu
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10:21.43brlcadfun
10:27.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32860 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c: remove stray rt_revolve_prep debug printing
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11:24.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32861 10/brlcad/trunk/ (10 files in 5 dirs): Added bot_dump functionality to libged.
11:48.05starseekerlouipc:  integrating into (even replacing much of) the current MGED help system is exactly the goal :-)
12:21.18brlcadgives up on the revolve bug hoping pacman87 can make better sense of it
12:56.40claymorenever give up, never surrender!
13:03.33``Erikit's not surrender, it's passing the buck :D
13:04.28claymoreDelgation:  The greatest power on earth ;)  Men can move mountains with it.....
13:04.52``Erikmen can delegate others to move mountains with it, you mean
13:05.04``Erikwill, determination, and an endless supply of slave labor?
13:05.06clock_claymore: you mean atomic bomb?
13:05.23PrezKennedynewkular bombs
13:07.48clock_;-)
13:10.17claymoreErik: Bingo ;)
13:10.40claymoreclock: Perhaps, as long as we are discussing the delegation of deploying a nuclear weapon!
13:11.34claymoreErik:  What's you impression of Ubuntu?  Good/Bad/indifferent?
13:11.41claymoreyou = your
13:13.31``Erikit's... linux...
13:14.15``ErikI haven't used ubuntu, I was doing kernel development in linux and uh, was a bit terrified :D all those nippets of MS and enterprise code that people laugh at... I've seen worse in the kernel
13:14.35``Erikubuntu is based off of debian, right? debian was my favorite leenewx back in the day
13:15.04claymorecool.  Since you're the OS zealot, i figured I'd ask ;)
13:15.29clock_``Erik: you want to say that in the Linux kernel there are even worse pearls than in MS and enterprise code?
13:16.07``Erikclock: there are some real stinkers.
13:16.20clock_``Erik: do you remember some?
13:16.38clock_A friend found a chain of functions that were doing nothing else just one caling another
13:16.45clock_So he removed that and sent a patch
13:16.50clock_Don't know if they accepted it though.
13:17.18``Erikum, iirc (it's been many years), ioctl is treated as a pass through unguarded pointer remapping instead of a guarded copy that divides top and bottom half
13:17.32clock_A friend who wrote his own operating system and did a surprising discovery in the filesystem area so maybe he knew what he was doing ;-)
13:17.57``Erikwhich certain driver writers demonstrated horrible ways to abuse *coughnvidiacough*, basically permitting arbitrary overflow into kernel space
13:17.58clock_I don't understand it
13:18.03clock_I know what a top and bottom half is
13:18.19clock_that's in interrupt drivers the top half puts some request on a que and the bottom half then does the real work
13:18.30clock_I know what a pointer is
13:19.13clock_oh nvidia is shit already just by the name isn't it?
13:19.43``Erikok, you call an ioctl, you get the ability to write to kernel protected memory from a user process... on most OS's you actually write to a user buffer, then the kernel copies a kernel defined number of bytes from your user memory into kernel space
13:20.17clock_with ioctl you pass 2 ints and a variable amount of parameters
13:20.17``Erikwith the linux way, it just maps a pointer to both without a guard (or it used to), so if you were malicious, you could just keep writing into kernel memory to your hearts content (at least for that page)
13:20.24clock_I don't see any way how to write into kernel memory
13:20.34clock_Who's writing into the kernel memory is the kernel isn't it?
13:20.55clock_Or is the ioctl somehow significantly translated by glibc? I am looking into the manpage not into the kernel interface spec
13:21.04clock_(frankly, I wouldn't expect Linux to have any kind of interface spec)
13:21.09``Erikit's a syscall
13:21.28``Eriklemme try to find my minirant
13:21.33clock_``Erik: what pointer? It returns an int
13:22.00claymoretechnically speaking EVERYTHING is a pointer ;)
13:22.33clock_Linux is crap anyway. For exacmple the whole VT_ACTIVATE virtual terminal switching mechanism is flawed by design, resulting in a serious and irreparable race condition that can crash the video card and thus the whole machine
13:22.34``Erikhttps://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=89042
13:22.51clock_We were debugging Links crashing when switching VT's
13:22.58clock_Kernel people keep saying it's a bug of svgalib.
13:23.10``Erikthis rant is trying to move the abused linux code into the 'safe' bsd approach
13:23.16clock_But I found it isn't. And then the kernel people confirmed me that the VT_ACTIVATE mechanism in the linux kernel is buggy by design.
13:23.49clock_"ioctl address" -> what's an ioctl adddress?
13:23.56clock_knows just what ioctl is, see ioctl
13:23.59clock_see man ioctl
13:24.12clock_is it an address associated with some specific ioctl?
13:24.38``Eriksome ioctl's act like memcpy()
13:25.09clock_and?
13:25.17clock_where's the problem?
13:25.20``Erikum
13:25.42clock_you instruct the kernel to write somewhere into the kernel space and he doesn't check if you have permission for that?
13:25.52``Erikor read, and yes
13:25.59clock_basic eror
13:26.20clock_same like calling unlink("/etc/shadow") under user privileges
13:26.28clock_If the kernel doesn't check the permission, youre screwed.
13:26.30``ErikUNIX: memcpy(dst,src,len);  Linux: dst=src;
13:26.40clock_Why should this be anything different? Why does it need discussion?
13:26.46clock_Because the linux kernel developers are retarted?
13:27.09``Erikor too trusting and looking for speed *shrug* this was a while ago, hopefully that gripe has changed
13:27.16clock_omg
13:27.33clock_Not only Linux is crap, also the x server
13:27.42clock_they have a piece of code that is guarded by cli and sti
13:28.11``Erikreally? in X? neat
13:28.11clock_if a page boundary happens in between and the lower page happens to be paged in and the upper paged out
13:28.13clock_it throws a page fault the fault handler asks the disk to serve the page and waits for an interrupt.
13:28.21``Erikguess if you have to run it as root, you're able to be fugly like that
13:28.31clock_The disk brings the page pulls the interrupt and NOTHING HAPPENS, BECAUSE THE INTERRUPT IS DISABLED.
13:28.42clock_Now the machine hangs and he user can happily press the RESET button.
13:29.04``ErikI haven't run across that issue yet
13:29.28``Erikthese days, I sit at a mac, run X11.app and do everything over remote X
13:29.55``Erik<-- been thinking about buying a linux subnotebook, though
13:33.12clock_I get all kinds of problems with X
13:33.41clock_For example 99% times I shut down X in the work with ctrl-alt-backspace, the lower edge of the screen fills with thin vertical coloured stripes and a square is painted on the screen.
13:33.56clock_Then I have to press alt-sysrq-u-s-b because the system doesn't react to anything else.
13:37.38``Erikthat sounds more like a video driver reinitialization issue than a straight up X issue
13:38.26clock_Well if there are things like this - and I have verified that myself with the cli and sti in the source code - than I simply don't trust X
13:38.28PrezKennedywindows is pretty good
13:38.38clock_puts a "broken by design" stamp over X and stops worrying about any crashes
13:39.58``Erikuh, we're talking performance cars at a drag strip, don't brag about your honda civic with a type R sticker and dragging muffler, boy :D
13:40.26clock_Trabant car
13:40.43archivist_ubcar! cycle
13:41.11claymoreScore for egging people on:  PrezKennedy: 1, Erik: 0
13:41.46``Erikaw, c'mon, that ain't fair, I jump at any excuse for an off the wall analogy :D
13:42.24claymorethinks Erik jumps at any excuse to slam windows.
13:42.53``Erikspeaking of off the wall car analogies, funroll loops has moved O.o it's now http://funroll-loops.info/
13:46.10claymorenewb question:  When it comes to load average, should it be 1.0 per cpu?
13:46.26``Erikum, load is a red herring
13:47.21PrezKennedyload should be whatever is just below locking up the system
13:48.10claymoreUnderstanding that its more of a qualitative measure than a quantitative one, is it 1.0 per cpu?
13:48.50PrezKennedythats what ive heard people say
13:50.35PrezKennedyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_(computing)
13:57.14claymorecool thanks for the link.  didn't have a browser open and figured you all would know.
14:06.02``Erikit's the length of the runnable queue, if you sustain a load of 1.0 per cpu, you're probably in the neighborhood of full utilization and minumum process latency
14:06.08``Erik(sorry, someone walked in my office)
14:07.39``Eriklinux includes uninterruptible sleeps in its load computation? laaammmeeee
14:14.10claymorehates the sloooowness of a wireless connection. grrr.
14:17.45clock_claymore: not every wireless connection is slow, you should say the wireless connection!
14:18.05clock_claymore: there are wireless connection with latency less than an optical fibre, with 10^-9 BER
14:23.59claymoreokay Mr Specific:  Claymore hates the slooooownes of a 802.11g wireless connection.
14:25.20brlcadif you're being pedantic, that should probably be an 'an' too ;)
14:25.21PrezKennedyhates the slowness of an 802.11a/b connection
14:25.28brlcadyay, an
14:26.05claymoreglares at Sean.
14:27.10claymoreVMware's virtual networking is kinda strange....  Need to read more.
14:27.58PrezKennedystares hard at Sean through the monitor
14:28.06PrezKennedyyou can't see it... but im staring hard!
14:28.11``Erikhehehe
14:29.52``Erikso, uh, this one time, at band camp
14:35.08claymoreI never knew you played flute Erik....
14:35.30``Eriknah, dude, oboe O.o
14:35.40claymoredoh, my bad.
14:35.42``Erikthat movie had some very disturbing scenes
14:35.49claymoreyes it did....
14:36.06``Erik(that was an oboe he violated, right?)
14:36.07claymorei mean, apple pie?  Come on, thats a new level of desperate...
14:43.45PrezKennedyyeah i mean c'mon... pumpkin pie is so much better
14:43.47PrezKennedyXD
14:44.37``Erikbacks away
14:44.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32862 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/ (bot_dump/bot_dump.vcproj brlcad/brlcad.sln): Update bot_dump project.
14:53.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32863 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Remove bot2raw project reference.
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15:48.19starseekeroh, ICK
15:48.37starseekertkhtml3 is using some kind of parser to extract the c files before compiling
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17:02.24mafmgoing out, see you
17:06.27pacman87brlcad: i've got to run now, but i should be back in ~2hrs if you want me to take a stab at the revolve bug
18:02.26brlcadpacman87: ok cool
19:10.20pacman87is back
19:15.02pacman87brlcad: ping
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20:00.46brlcadpacman87: pongo
20:00.57pacman87what's the bug?
20:01.14brlcaddid you see the revolve.g that daniel sent to the mailing list?
20:01.58brlcadthe hit points on the top/bottom don't seem right (possibly just inverted)
20:02.26pacman87i don't remember getting that one
20:02.50pacman87sent to the -devel list?
20:03.05brlcadyeah
20:03.23brlcadah, not the devel list
20:03.32brlcadposted to the help forum
20:03.43brlcadhttp://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=5381844
20:04.12brlcadyou're probably not subscribed to the forums
20:09.16pacman87i'm in winXP atm, and have another class in 20 min
20:09.24brlcadk
20:09.49pacman8717 hours of all engr classes (2 labs, plus my senior design project) doesnt leave much spare time
20:10.58brlcadhttp:/brlcad.org/tmp/revolve.png
20:11.04pacman87but the bug you're talking about is for revolve faces that are perpendicular to the axis of rotation?
20:11.17pacman87ah, i see
20:11.52pacman87if you try that with a different bg color, are those faces still black?
20:12.20brlcadI did see in a simple single ray query that it is getting a in/out hit computed there, but it didn't seem like they were right
20:12.51pacman87so the hitpoint could be off there
20:12.53pacman87?
20:13.33brlcadyeah, or simply inverted points
20:13.55brlcadthe panels don't register as background, so even with a bgcolor set, they render black
20:14.24brlcadboth the top and the bottom
20:15.07brlcadbasically all surfaces that are perfectly perpendicular
20:15.28pacman87if you add a rpp overlapping with the revolve, do those surfaces intersect properly?
20:15.50pacman87(to test for proper hit distance)
20:18.24brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/tmp/revolve2.png  seems ok
20:19.09pacman87ok, so the distances are probably correct, and the normals need fixing
20:19.31pacman87adds it to my todo list
20:19.56brlcadhm, that gives me an idea actually
20:21.33brlcadhm, firing straight down, I get
20:21.43brlcad<PROTECTED>
20:21.44brlcadOUT: (   1.66,   1.00 )  2.6224
20:22.33pacman87looking along the revolve axis is handled seperately for hitpoints
20:23.55pacman87i've got class; i'll check back in ~1.5hrs
20:24.27brlcadcya
20:26.12brlcadhm, yeah -- that in/out looks right
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22:00.53pacman87is back again
22:16.42brlcadaha, vpriv is ending up with Z == -inf
22:16.54brlcadcausing nan's during norm()
22:20.34pacman87hmm, i though i handled that in norm()
22:21.28brlcadactually, really shouldn't rely on ieee encoding
22:21.43brlcaddivision by zero on some platforms will result in a floating point exception instead of nans
22:21.51brlcadi.e., the app can crash
22:22.18brlcadbest to always protect with NEAR_ZERO tests and do the extra book-keeping and conditionals
22:22.19pacman87is looking up the code
22:22.42brlcadit's undoubtedly the m = dir[Y] / dir[X] where things start
22:23.23pacman87what happened to the sourceforge svn browse?
22:26.12brlcadlooks like they're in the middle of setting up a new web server
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22:26.31brlcadit was fine just yesterday
22:27.10brlcadah, interesting, it works if you go deep .. just not the top-level places that used to redirect
22:27.13brlcade.g. http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/
22:29.51brlcadwoot, fixed at least one of the problems
22:29.58brlcadstill have a problem if they're dead-on
22:31.33pacman87dead-on = ?
22:31.36pacman87along the revolve axis?
22:32.09brlcadtop-view
22:32.19brlcadyeah, looking down the revolve axis
22:47.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32864 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c:
22:47.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: fix at least one problem with the revolve normals where nan's were making their
22:47.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: way into the norm() calc causing badness. this protects the division by zeros
22:47.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: applying some naive fallback logic that probably needs reviewing/improving but
22:47.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: does fix the problem for at least a few orientations. there are still problems
22:47.58CIA-4BRL-CAD: with looking straight up/down the rotation axis.
22:52.53brlcadpacman87: feel free to review/revert that ..
22:53.18brlcadthe near-zero cases should probably be handled better than that
22:54.11brlcadI left some XXX debug statements in there for you if you want to poke it
22:54.21pacman87ok
22:55.29pacman87don't you need an else in front of line 432?
23:00.25pacman87and if dir[X] is near zero, then m would be very large, not one
23:01.17brlcadah, yeah -- there was an else there at one point .. where'd it go
23:03.19brlcadyes, huge, but then they're caught with the subsequent near_zero tests for /m to just make vpriv[z] = 0
23:04.08brlcadthose seem like they should be 1/-1 instead of 0, but I was following/faking intent
23:05.50pacman87subsequent test == line 455?
23:06.17pacman87shouldn't that be dir[X] is near zero, instead of m near zero?
23:07.20brlcadheh, copy-paste ftw .. you can see how careful/awake I am :)
23:07.59brlcadactually, hm, 455 you say?
23:08.16pacman87and if you're worried about inf, then you need a check for dir[Y] == 0, cause then m = 0 and 1/m is inf
23:08.34brlcad455 looks right to me
23:08.37pacman87yeah, i'm looking at the diff on sourceforge
23:08.45pacman87<PROTECTED>
23:08.49brlcadit's protecting the /m
23:09.06pacman87oh, right
23:09.08brlcadthe point being to avoid inf/nan altogether
23:09.51pacman87so all the problems arise when either dir[X] or dir[Y] are zero, yeah?
23:10.56pacman87the easiest way to ensure correctness (i'd think) would be to replace m or 1/m with dir[Y]/dir[X] or the opposite, and it'd be easier to check the condition you need
23:11.37brlcadyeah, I think so
23:12.43CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32866 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/revolve/revolve.c: ws, indent
23:12.43brlcadkicks CIA-4
23:12.43CIA-4ow
23:12.45pacman87another way would be to add another surfno to designate that the face is perpendicular to the revolve axis
23:13.18brlcadis that your HORIZ_SURF ?
23:14.28pacman87yeah, but in shot(), i think i'm only using it when i have to close the sketch myself
23:14.46pacman87though the code should be applicable to this problem, too
23:15.25pacman87so i think that boils down to "if (dir[y] is near zero) surfno = HORIZ_SURF
23:18.17pacman87dinnertime, back soon
23:18.56*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
23:20.44brlcadcheerio
23:21.03``Erikcheerios for dinner? *ponder*
23:28.26starseekernever cared for cheerios
23:29.27``ErikI used to get frosted miniwheats and raisin bran, but I don't eat breakfast anymore :/
23:29.43``Erikif I do, I cook up crepes or pancakes or waffles or eggs/hashbrowns/bacon or something
23:30.10``Erikgrabs his pink apron and prances about
23:30.53brlcadyay, threats from someone 35 levels higher than me now that I'm about to pass 30
23:31.02starseekertries to scrub that mental image out of his head
23:31.25``Erikon ceti, I assume?
23:31.44``ErikI think 50 is the high end of epsilon right now
23:31.46brlcadbeta
23:31.54``Erikoh, beta, my bad
23:31.59``Erik"the other one"
23:32.24``Erikmy first lithp web app project, I think, is going to be a suite of ae helpers
23:32.57``Erikextending the notion that created http://brlcad.org/~erik/profit.html
23:32.57``Erik:)
23:35.00brlcadI find myself getting increasingly apathetic given I only check the status every couple days now
23:35.14brlcadnot writing enough code, even if it's only getting 5 minutes of my day
23:36.16``Erikopposed to tv? :D
23:36.31brlcadyep, that already doesn't really get much/any of my time
23:37.05brlcadespecially since I moved, I've gotten weened off of everything
23:37.24``Erik<-- pads ae in around his down cycles, fun diversion :)
23:37.26brlcadeven missing the new season of heroes (though I *will* catch up on that at some point)
23:37.47``Erikbought a place yet? bob says you have another townhouse in canton that caught your eye?
23:37.50brlcadheh, but you only consist of down cycles??
23:38.01brlcadyeah, it's a sweet place
23:38.02``Erikheh, on occasion
23:38.20``Erikwhen, say, I svn up, run make and it breaks, yeah, that's a downtime day :D *duck*
23:39.06brlcadyou sound like someone else now
23:39.31``Erikheh
23:39.45``Erikpizza time :D
23:39.49brlcadsomeone who shall go unnamed but doesn't even read the error message before "giving up" on even simple typo errors :P
23:41.11``Erikoh, I saw the message, followed the commit message, looked at the diff, looked at the infracting code
23:41.37``Erikand figured you must've just forgotten to commit src/libged/make.c
23:41.40``Erik:)
23:42.12brlcadnope, never even made the edit
23:42.15brlcadbut it was trivial :P
23:42.28brlcadi was just compiling per-dir at the time
23:43.09``ErikI'm thinking you gutted a void* type 'magic' thing to overload it with switching structs using a type enumerator
23:43.25``Erikbut the enumeration was set up like a bit vector in octal for some strange reason
23:43.27``ErikO.o
23:45.23``Erikso *shrug* it was paperwork, answering make questions, etc
23:45.43brlcadit's exactly as you read it
23:47.15brlcadeven down to the strange reason (exclusive id, just so you could look up the type via bitmask or equivalence)
23:47.19``Erikthe part that really had me step bck and go "uh, wtf?" was using an enumeration with a value set on every name instead of just letting it be a real enumeration or doing #defines
23:47.28brlcadcustom structs just being a way to pack them in memory tight
23:47.46``Erikwhy not a union in the struct?
23:48.02brlcadthought about it
23:49.02``Erikunfortunately, I still have loads of non-code things to deal with :/ so something weird like that, Igo do the unfun stuff for a bit :)
23:49.03brlcadbut the size of a union is the size of it's largest member iirc
23:49.13brlcadwhich defeats the whole purpose
23:49.23brlcadotherwise I could just have done what the DSP did
23:50.17brlcad(which was to just shove it all in a struct and access members based on the type)
23:50.58``Erikyeah, union will always be the biggest member
23:51.06brlcadwhich makes for one pig of a structure .. I was debugging it a while ago and it looked like it's using 160 bytes per cell(!) .. maybe just a bug but damn
23:52.23brlcadpoints should now take up just exactly what they need with the only cost being that you have to typecast the container to the right struct
23:52.51brlcadwould also make a really trivial extension to add per-point weights/scales now too
23:54.29``Erikponder this
23:54.45``Erikresuming a raytrace is gone, no more, an ex-feature
23:54.51``Erik<-- beats it on the countertop
23:54.55brlcadthe other thing I could have done would have been separate lists for the point data, normal data, color data, etc, just having null lists for the ones that don't have that data .. that would have avoided the void*
23:55.09``Erikdoes the 0,0,1 'base' color still make sense? or can we have pure colors?
23:55.18brlcadahhhmmmmmmmmmm
23:55.33brlcadthat wasn't just done for resuming
23:55.45``Erik<-- has half been thinking about adding an .rpx format that'd journal how much was written
23:56.20``Erikso my 40000x40000 -H37 -J3 poster render could be picked back up O.o :D
23:56.59``Erikwhat else is 'not really black' used for? O.o
23:57.13brlcadi'd completely go for eliminating that magic color if we had proper alphachannel support -- knowing which are "background"/missed pixels is a feature used by quite a few tools
23:58.32``Erikheh, png is looking better and better :)
23:58.59brlcadhell, I'd go for full 64-bit images, hdr internally ftw
23:59.15*** join/#brlcad archivist_emc (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
23:59.15``Erikpng can do that :D
23:59.42brlcadit does?
23:59.49brlcadthought they only did 16bit
23:59.55brlcadexr does 32-bit
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081008

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081008

00:00.30``Erikiirc, png allows you to set the width arbitrarily
00:00.34brlcadwe actually have the start/stubs to a floating point raw image format (dpix) that was getting added to everything
00:00.47``Eriknifty
00:02.19``Erikhah, john stewart is refering to palin as "the she-bush"
00:03.06brlcadah, so it does.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Network_Graphics#Color_depth
00:26.47dtidrowhowdy, brlcad - finally moved into our new home
00:29.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32867 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/bomb.c: erm, think the three fputs calls are stale debug leftovers. kill em
00:29.33claymoregood lord.. a 1 TB 7200 spin SATA drive... $89...
00:30.25dtidrowlik please  ;-)
00:30.31dtidrowlink, that is...
00:31.17claymorebah, 119 with a 30 mail in rebate... never mind
00:31.21claymorehttp://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10005968&eml=100708&email=100708&ref_id=5992&ref_t=Z&originid=82882604
00:31.51dtidrowstill, $120/TB is still a good deal
00:32.36claymoreI know, I am just super impatient ;)  Mail In Rebates != instant satisfaction....
00:32.48starseekerprods CIA-4
00:33.14claymorequadcore AMD socket am2 2.6GHz for $190.  Now thats not bad at all...
00:50.12starseekerhopes his hardware holds out for a while
00:57.46``Eriklooks at his 1.2ghz athlon and ponders
01:14.58CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32869 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/Makefile.am: Oh yeah, might help to actually build tkhtml3
01:21.25*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
01:21.25*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || The 2008 Google Summer of Code is complete! -- Thanks deserved to all of our students! || (Source) Release 7.12.6 posted 2008-08-19 || Mailing lists are now reply-to-list instead of reply-to-sender by default
02:01.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r32870 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/iges/spline.c:
02:01.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: Corrected the limit on a loop. I believe this corrects bug #2009424
02:01.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: "iges-g crashes with -n option on Linux". Also improved handling of rational
02:01.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: vs polynomial surfaces (to reduce memory usage of non-rational Bspline surfaces).
02:14.12``Erikhttp://www.collegehumor.com/video:1772239
02:42.54brlcadwoo hoo! .. http://brlcad.org/tmp/bombardier.png
02:43.05brlcadhalfway there
02:45.50PrezKennedyyou should have put in "Having fun" in the place where it asks what you were doing
02:46.02starseekersweeeet!
02:50.38louipcfancy
02:51.00louipcI thought that was going to be a model of a water bomber or something
02:52.02brlcad:)
02:52.15brlcadit's what I'm calling the crash report tool
02:52.34brlcaddtidrow: congratulations!
02:52.53brlcaddtidrow: so where abouts are you now?
02:54.20brlcadso aquatk is still a bit of a pita to get matching x11 .. and I have to jump through hoops to force it to use the right libs (it's sort of all or nothing)
02:54.29brlcadbut it does indeed work at least for that simple example
02:56.33starseekerYES! http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/html_man_MGED.png
02:56.56brlcadhah
02:57.09brlcadI've been trumped, nice work :)
02:57.24brlcadthat looks great
02:57.31starseekernah, not trumped - just didn't want to get too far behind :-P
02:57.32starseekerthanks
02:57.59starseekerrendering isn't absolutely perfect (one of the tables is left justified for some reason) but it should do
02:58.19brlcadnods
02:58.29starseekerright now, only search and rt on that list work
02:58.44brlcadi know it's powerful and can do pretty much any layout, but it always seems a pita to me to get tk layouts to behave
02:59.02starseekerI need to use the dirent functionality to look at whats actually available and build a list from that
02:59.12starseekeragrees
02:59.21brlcadthey just seem to go contrary to how I learned layouts or something and I always feel like I'm hacking it (probably due to just not sitting down and spending the time to learn it proper)
03:00.47starseekerbrlcad:  Right now it's more or less held together with chewing gum and string, but I think it should be fairly safe as far as crashing goes - can I go ahead and commit so I don't lose it?
03:01.13starseekerdoesn't think it's brlcad - I've got the frigging intro book in front of me and it feels weird
03:02.18brlcadthe only concern is the compilability of tkhtml3
03:02.30brlcadif that's working cleanly, I don't see why not
03:02.56brlcadmaybe test a bsd and mac at least
03:03.11brlcadmake sure it builds and installs without a hiccup
03:03.15starseekerMac's OK (at least this one is)
03:03.19starseekerhunts up linux box
03:06.09louipcbuilds tkhtml
03:06.13louipcwoohoo
03:20.48brlcadwhat's the usual Linux/X11 key binding to quit an app and/or close a window?
03:21.52brlcadcontrol-q ?
03:24.13starseekerhmm.  Ctrl-q sounds good.  I'm not sure there really is a standard per say - I usually either quit via the program or kill the sucker
03:26.10``Erikwhatever has been mapped to xkill :D ctl+alt+escape (then click the window) shows up on a google
03:26.32``Erikif that doesn'twork, ctl+alt+backspace will definitely get it
03:26.37``Erik*duck*
03:26.47brlcadheh
03:27.04starseekersounds like an approach Mike would use for quitting an app - "Nuke 'em all!" :-P
03:28.45starseekerwill test john's iges-g fix when he gets home - that'll be NEWS worthy if he got it
03:29.12``Erikmany moons ago, back when I used to code,I was having issues with X locking up during opengl development with my 3dfx card and the opengl/glide bridge... ended up writing a joystick polling program that mapped things like killing X to a button, rebooting the machine to a button, etc... :)
03:29.19``ErikI used to be cool! honest!
03:29.35starseekerheh
03:30.00starseekerwas only ever cool in a relative sense
03:32.45starseekerreached the Zen of floppy divination - the true master needs no labels
03:34.03``Erikhttp://www.libraryjournal.com/articles/blog/770000077/20080618/cassette02.jpg
03:34.13``Erikmy first programs went on things that looked like those
03:34.14``Erik:D
03:35.04starseekereh
03:35.15starseekerat least neither of us was there to suffer through punch cards
03:35.23``Erikmy mom did O.o
03:35.26starseekerow
03:35.45starseekermight still take punch cards over old style mechanical typewritters though
03:36.03``Erikshe was in college taking programming classes... fortran on punch cards... her guidance councellor told her there was no future in programming or computers
03:36.08``Erikwoops O.o
03:36.14starseekerdid she listen?
03:36.20``Erikyeah
03:36.49starseekerwhoops
03:37.48Ralithfortran existed on punch cards?
03:37.49Ralithwow.
03:37.56RalithI didn't know they were at all high level.
03:39.12starseekerpretty much ignored his undergraduate councellor
03:39.38``Erikup through fortran 4, the format was "fixed column" to facilitate punchcard programming...
03:47.08starseekerWorks on linux
03:47.14starseekerswwweeeet
03:49.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32871 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Early stage attempt at html based manual page display in MGED
03:50.02starseekerdecides that's probably enough for one day and heads home.
03:50.36starseekeron the plus side, it doesn't look like my hours will be quite as long as I was afraid they would be
03:55.48brlcadgreat
04:01.27dtidrowbrlcad: we're about 15 miles north of Detroit
04:50.50brlcaddtidrow, oh wow .. dunno if I knew that already, but .. yeah, wow :)
04:51.18brlcadI have family about a mile or two from M59
04:52.18brlcadkicks CIA-4
04:52.18CIA-4ow
04:52.56brlcadgiven the e-mails are making it out, CIA must be dropping commits now when load is high
04:55.24brlcadmore or less final appearance now, http://brlcad.org/tmp/bombardier.png
06:33.21starseekervery nice!
06:33.56brlcadthx, still needs word-smithed
06:34.03brlcadstill needs to send the report somewhere
06:34.05starseekererm
06:34.10brlcadstill needs to get hooked into an app
06:34.10starseekerIn file included from ../../../brlcad/src/util/bombardier.c:35:
06:34.10starseeker/usr/include/tk.h:23:3: error: #error Tk 8.4 must be compiled with tcl.h from Tcl 8.4
06:34.25brlcadhm
06:34.38brlcadsounds like might be needing some autogenification love
06:34.48brlcador cppflags are lacking
06:35.03brlcadah, yes..
06:35.08brlcaddoesn't bite on mac
06:36.59brlcadhrm, not what I thought it might be
06:37.24brlcadah, maybe this..
06:40.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32874 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/Makefile.am: try adding the tk and tcl cppflags for bombardier since it needs both
06:41.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32875 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/bombardier.c: re-enable the tclcad_auto_path so that we can run cleanly uninstalled (nasty to include all of libtclcad just for that routine, but oh well)
06:45.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32876 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/bombardier.c: quell warnings, use fclose instead of close so we don't have to invoke bio.h or unistd.h
06:52.40brlcadgive that a go
06:59.33CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32878 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/bombardier.c: and say bye bye to the second fixed buffer too, all hail the new vls overlords
08:13.29*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch)
08:14.05brlcadgets back to work
08:39.19*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch)
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09:11.36pacman87finally finishes ~5 hours of assembly programming and breadboard prototyping
09:11.47pacman87good night/morning
09:14.40brlcadg'morning claymore
09:15.02brlcadhowdy pacman87
09:15.21*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
09:15.21*** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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09:15.33pacman87waking up for my circuits lab in 4 hours isn't going to be fun
09:15.33brlcad:)
09:15.34brlcaddon't go to sleep
09:15.45brlcadthen you don't have to face that unpleasantry
09:16.03pacman87if it's less than 3 or so, i usually just stay up and go running
09:16.25pacman87anyway, my bed is calling
09:17.17clock_pacman87: circuits lab? Is it something to do with electronics
09:17.54brlcadcircuits usually do
09:18.19clock_That reminds me how I am trying to teach 2N3904's to ride 10 MHz swell
09:18.54clock_Using a circuit simulator I found out the emitter capacitance is not 8pF as written in datasheet, but under current, it goes up to 57pF!
09:19.17clock_No wonder it was deforming the signal so horribly when I designed for 8pF!
09:20.02archivistdont over trust simulators
09:20.13clock_But it makes sense
09:20.31clock_Under current the capacity of every junction goes much higher
09:21.22clock_In reality when built the circuit I got a 500 MHz oscillator.
09:21.45clock_It couldn't amplify 10MHz properly, but had no problems with oscillating at 500 MHz ;-)
09:21.47clock_Even when the transistors stop working at 300 MHz
09:22.00clock_knows how to design circuits for astonishing results
09:22.40archivistthe models in circuit simulators can be poor approximations and ive seen some maths effects from poor simulator design
09:23.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32880 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/ (Makefile.am bombardier.h):
09:23.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: add an icon to bombardier in old-school bitmap format (since that's what tcl
09:23.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: wants). it's nice when all the old tools still work. bitmap was custom
09:23.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: hand-edited based off a picture of real Bombardier wings, dithered to bitmap,
09:23.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: exported as png, converted to bw, rotated/inverted to 4th quadrant with bwrot,
09:23.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: converted to ascii via bw-a, and then to X11 bitmap format using atobmp. so
09:23.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: nice when everything works.
09:23.42clock_archivist: yeah the theory vs. praxis problem
09:24.38clock_archivist: reminds me surfing. All the surf people told me to train stand up at home. I trained a perfect standup on a floor. But when I got to a real board it didn't work at all, because the board has a different mechanical impedance
09:25.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32881 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/bombardier.c: hook in a preliminary query dialog that asks the user if they'd like to report the crash (displaying the nifty bombardier wings as a bitmap icon). good to go now for sending the report on in.
09:41.06brlcadmore preview shots:  http://brlcad.org/tmp/bombardier_hello.png  http://brlcad.org/tmp/bombardier_final.png
09:43.00clock_Please describe what you were doing when the crash occured:
09:43.13clock_I was eating a phone order pizza and masturbating under the desk.
09:47.21brlcadand that description will get the attention it deserves
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10:18.02claymorewants to know what kind of pizza it was...
10:35.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32882 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/ (11 files in 11 dirs): ignore the generated files for a clean svn status
11:03.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32883 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: added a file to be in sync with Makefile.am
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12:30.35mafmhi
12:48.12claymorehai!
12:57.36starseekerbrlcad:  Yep, that looks like it builds now - thanks!
12:57.48starseeker(sorry, crashed last night)
12:59.50mafmhai
13:00.09starseekerhowdy
13:01.36starseekerbrlcad:  those screenshots look awesome
13:06.36starseekerwooot - tkhtml3 works on my gentoo box too
13:08.08starseekeris stunned - once I get MGED to generate a "proper" list of available man pages and hook in a command line call, this might actually be ready to roll
13:10.04starseekershould get ready to roll too...
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14:19.49*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
14:56.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32884 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am bwscale.xml): Add bwscale man page docbook conversion from Janine.
15:18.48brlcadstarseeker: so is she just going down the list and the first ones started with B ?
15:20.01brlcader with the b's
15:26.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32885 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: call out the work being put into converting, reviewing, and editing the documentation as it is massaged into Docbook format by cliff and janine.
15:27.05starseekerno, that was just a random short file I gave here as a test
15:27.50starseekerI gave here the full set now, with the list of cmds MGED knows about as the high priorities
15:27.58starseekerer gave her
15:28.17starseekershould think about waking up
15:28.47brlcad"the full set"?
15:28.59starseekerall man1 man pages
15:29.13starseekershe knows to avoid the 3rd party ones
15:29.18brlcadah, okay -- so they are all command-line commands
15:29.25starseekernods
15:30.01starseekeris there a good example of starting a dialog from the mged command line anywhere?
15:30.23starseekerneeds an id to feed the dialog request
15:33.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32886 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
15:33.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: this one is a little more tricky to word from an external user perspective but
15:33.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: it's not critical to get it right since it should have a suymmary paragraph
15:33.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: talking about it anyways come release time. mention the enhanced documentation
15:33.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: processing system in mged that cliff now has integrated and working.
15:33.56brlcaderm, yeah, look at bombardier :)
15:34.04brlcadtk_dialog
15:34.08starseekerturns red
15:34.11starseekerI knew that...
15:36.47brlcadi.e., this line in that file:  set response [tk_dialog .supg {Ooops...} $msg bombardier 1 {Close} {Report...}]
15:37.38starseekerwants to set up a "man" command on the MGED command line such that "man search" opens up the html search doc - is it better to do that in tcl or C?
15:49.32brlcad"yes"
15:50.18brlcadgiven it kicks off a gui, that portion belongs in tcl as tcl
15:50.44starseekerok
15:51.03starseekeris there an example of that (maybe the sketch editor?)
15:51.17brlcadyou could, however conceivably have a 'man' command inside mged that was even available in classive mode, and that wouldn't/shouldn't involve tcl at all
15:51.37starseekerhow would it display results?
15:51.38brlcadsketch editor is a pig, but yeah -- it's an example
15:51.42starseekerk
15:51.48brlcadprobably a better example would be the geometry browser
15:51.54brlcadit's hooked in as the "geometree" command
15:52.02starseekercool - thanks!
15:52.04brlcadsrc/tclscripts/geometree/geometree.tcl
15:52.42brlcadand yes.. I believe it's not documented  ;)
15:52.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32887 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/mged.tcl: Only list MGED commands if they actually have an html man page available.
15:53.04starseekerdoesn't dare document that - he'll end up rewriting it
15:53.30starseekerAh dingnabbit, now I've got to update the CCB notes again and this time I did it to myself
15:54.04claymorehas extreme sympathy for starseeker.
15:54.33starseeker's sarcasm detector just had its needle broken off
16:02.04claymorespent nearly 10 years dealing with the QA aspect of running nuclear power plants, so when it comes to paperwork, claymore DOES have sympathy for starseeker ;)
16:02.17starseekerAh :-)
16:02.33starseekeryes, I've heard legends about nuclear power plant requirements for documentaiton
16:03.02claymorelegends?  Nah.  More like living mightmares.
16:04.31claymoreTrue story:  I had to spend 3 hours one time to replace a set of 25A/450V fuses in a switchboard.  1.4 hrs for the initial paperwork/permissions, .2 hrs to replace the fuses in the live board, 1.4 hrs for the followup paperwork closeout.
16:04.59claymorethat was the point at which i knew i was finished with the Nuke Power aspect of my life ;)
16:05.01Axman6nice
16:05.12starseekerwinces
16:05.27Axman6those sound like large fuses...
16:05.49claymoreNope.  25A fuses are about the size of half a crayon.
16:05.56Axman6what was it like working there?
16:06.00Axman6heh, fair enough
16:06.13claymoreI think they were for a 450V recepticle actually.
16:06.32claymoreWell, it was active duty Navy, so it was like any other active duty really.
16:07.14Axman6ah yes, right. makes sense why you're here then
16:07.51claymore'here' ?
16:08.00Axman6#brlcad
16:08.12Axman6the whole army thing... nevermind
16:08.18claymorelooks out his window for suspicous looking cars...
16:08.40Axman6*cough*
16:09.04claymoreYeah, i had 10 years in governent service... couldn't just toss that away and I couldn't stand any more deployments... SO, seemed like a natural choice.
16:09.48claymorePlus, I will hit my retirement window at the age of 42 and will probably switch over to contracting at that point.  Nothing like the double dip!
16:10.22Axman6so what are you doing now?
16:11.26claymoreI am a newb software dev for the Army Research Labs ;)
16:11.51claymoreen you?
16:12.49Axman6first year uni student in australia. falling heavily in love with haskell...
16:14.23Axman6i'm not sure why i still hang around here tbh. i haven't used brlcad for most than two years (mostly because X11 is broken on OS X). just has a nice feel i guess
16:15.17claymoreisnt the x11 in 10.5 behaving?  Like I said, I am just a newb with the brlcad package (from the dev side that is)... so I am unsure.
16:15.32Axman6i should test it out again.
16:20.12Axman6fetches the source
16:20.47brlcadstarseeker: if all you're going to do is %s formatting, format is pointless
16:21.06Axman6a while ago brlcad was trying to see if he could get it all working under leopard, and i let him use this lappy via ssh. kind of anoying that it was apple's fault in the end :\
16:21.08brlcadinstead of format "html/man1/en/%s.html" $cmd, just use "html/man1/en/$cmd.html" instead
16:21.17starseekerah, ok
16:21.25starseekerisn't used to tcl yet
16:23.43brlcadAxman6: that should all be working now -- we had successful 10.5 compiles just a couple weeks ago
16:23.48Axman6brlcad: how would you feel about solving this, just to show off? http://projecteuler.net/index.php?section=problems&id=202
16:23.57Axman6brlcad: excellent :)
16:24.59pacman87Axman6: i already did that one 2-3 weeks ago :)
16:25.12Axman6nice :)
16:25.35pacman87i came up with the algorithm over dinner, written on the back of a napkin
16:25.50pacman87when one of my friends brought up the problem
16:25.50Axman6i've become a bit addicted to project euler. i still have a long way to come though :\
16:25.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32888 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/ (Makefile.am man.tcl tclIndex): Not quite perfect yet, but this flips up the window if you type 'man search' in the command window.
16:26.04Axman6heh, very nice
16:26.52starseekernot yet it isn't - I need to figure out how to avoid blocking the command line
16:27.13pacman87~25 lines of code
16:28.33Axman6one of the reasons i really like haskell s that i can write clear, one line solutions, that are very fast. often i don't use one line, because i confuse myself... but many could be
16:33.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32889 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/mged.tcl: Don't need format here (per Sean)
16:39.45Axman6brlcad: anything more i need to do to get a 64 bit build than --ebable-64bit-build? ./configure's whinging :\
16:41.13brlcadAxman6: yes, you have to set flags
16:41.35brlcadthe configure flag isn't sufficient due to how libtool works
16:42.06brlcadCFLAGS=-m64 LDFLAGS=-m64
16:43.19brlcadstarseeker: tk_dialog is blocking -- if you want non-blocking, you'll want to do something different (create a proper window)
16:46.32brlcadthe geometry browser does it by creating a panedwindow (itk widget) inside the GeometryBrowser constructor
16:46.54brlcadthere are a couple dozen other ways you can get a similar result
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17:17.05*** part/#brlcad comics (n=asus@217.8.236.129)
17:31.53mafmnight
18:09.57*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5B14D692.dip.t-dialin.net)
18:16.17claymorehow does one turn the terrian off?
18:18.26brlcadclaymore: que?
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18:25.36``Erikhaskell does some damn sexy things in some very limited fields, but it suddenly gets weak when you leave that arena :/
18:29.04``Eriklike, "find the smallest number evenly divisable by every number between 1 and 20"... foldr1 lcm [1..20]
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19:00.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32890 10/brlcad/trunk/bench/run.sh: fix it so clean/clobber work atain. treat those two commands like help and instructions, processing them before the benchmark 'begins'.
19:08.36brlcadstarseeker: toggling .so and .dll isn't portable (and won't be right on mac where it's neither)
19:08.47brlcadtry to avoid bob's bad habits :)
19:09.16starseekerbrlcad: Yeah, that's were I got it - OK, what's the right way?  (how come it is working on Mac, then?)
19:09.47brlcadyou should also *never* peek into .libs dirs
19:11.47``Erikunless you're über
19:12.52brlcadit's working because you told libtool to make a "module" (which is sort of like a fake library instruction)
19:12.58brlcadwhich makes it build the thing static
19:13.09brlcadso package require doesn't do anything, it just happens to be compiled in
19:13.16starseekerwas following what tkimg was doing...
19:13.36brlcadtkimg is a broken way to do it, and part why archer has so many problems
19:13.54starseekerok, what's the better one?
19:14.11brlcadwhere'd the build files for tkhtml3 come from?
19:14.17brlcadyou write them or did upstream?
19:14.47starseekerwrote them
19:14.59starseekerthey had some but they didn't seem to "fit"
19:15.08brlcadwhat'd they use?
19:15.28starseekerMake, but they were using tclsh to generate c files on the fly
19:15.56brlcadthe "right way", which tkimg doesn't do, is to set up the build through the tcl extensions interface, TEA
19:16.31brlcadstraight up make or automake or ?
19:16.53starseekerconfigure.in, Makefile.in, no Makefile.am
19:17.24brlcadthis explains TEA a bit (and is a good read to follow regardless), http://www.equi4.com/pub/etc/extuse.html
19:17.32brlcadokay, so autoconf project
19:17.44brlcadthey may have been using tea then already
19:17.58starseekeryes, i think they were
19:19.29brlcadhttp://wiki.tcl.tk/327  too
19:19.51starseekerAre any of the src/other libs handled "the right way" currently?
19:19.51brlcadah, there it is -- http://www.tcl.tk/doc/tea/
19:20.05brlcadmm, don't remember
19:20.13brlcadmaybe iwidgets
19:20.52starseekergroans - I take it the "right" thing to do is to fix 'em all?
19:20.55brlcadI think maybe incrTcl too possibly, but it's got other complexities
19:21.19brlcadnah, I wouldn't worry about fixing a problem that doesn't exist or has zero-cost at the moment
19:21.26brlcadjust don't add to it ;)
19:21.32starseekerheh
19:21.50starseekerchecks what iwidgets does
19:21.53brlcadand avoid the bobish if platform copouts :)
19:22.16brlcadthey continue to bite us in the ass years later
19:22.19starseekerThat seemed rather weird to me at the time, but I was assuming Archer did things the "right way" - guess not...
19:23.21brlcadi've spent weeks discovering/debugging and then rewriting something that amounted to a hack done a decade ago because a problem came up
19:23.24brlcaddozens of them
19:24.04brlcadit saved the original dev 'maybe' a couple days of extra work at the time
19:24.26starseekernods. I'll attempt to retool the tkhtml3 build to the "correct" behavior
19:24.48starseekerI think we still want to avoid the tclsh generated c files - those are a pain
19:24.57brlcadarcher does the tcl side better, but not any of it's dependency management
19:25.15brlcadit's initialization really sucked horribly as well, hard coded filesystem paths everywhere
19:25.19brlcadimpossible for it to run anywhere
19:25.34brlcadbut i've since rewritten it when I got it working on mac
19:25.54starseekercool
19:26.24brlcadtook over a month to diagnose, learn, and fix .. and probably only saved a week to do the hack
19:26.44starseekerwe need to send Bob to boot camp :-P
19:26.46brlcadreally has grown to despise the maintenance burden of hacks
19:27.06brlcadoh, I don't mind *bob* so much doing it
19:27.25brlcadbut it means he needs a finisher, someone that follows up after him and cleans up while it's all still in context
19:27.58brlcadat least I don't mind "too" much .. sometimes the hacks aren't even worth it if he's really being lazy
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19:28.43brlcadhowdy pacman87_
19:28.47starseekerwas so happy to have a working tkhtml3, too...
19:29.24brlcaddamn commit e-mails ruining your fun ;)
19:29.41starseekeryou were supposed to be too shot to read them :-P
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19:31.21starseekererm.  Does each src/other directory need its own version of tcl.m4?
19:32.19brlcadtechnically, no, but it's easier to leave upstream as pristine as possible
19:32.28brlcadand to distribute stand-alone..
19:32.51starseekerAh...
19:33.12brlcadfyi, not to add to the greivances but make dist is busted in tkhtml3 too ;)
19:34.06brlcadchuckles
19:34.17starseekerOK, OK, I give up - I'll look over the iwidgets setup.
19:34.51brlcadread the TEA docs, act like you're writing an extension .. then see what the others have done
19:34.59starseekerwill see about staying closer to the original tkhtml3 build logic, but it doesn't clean up after itself properly
19:35.43brlcadit is possible to hook in their .in files into our configure so that they build as a proper subconfigure
19:36.43starseekerwould prefer not to do that - they've got a snarl of several things stuffed in there, some of which may or may not be working...
19:36.50brlcadunless they were doing something horrible, I'd try to leave them as pristine as possible just so we can upgrade with near-zero effort
19:37.32starseekercan submit a patch to them... :-P
19:38.53starseekermumbles something under his breath about getting Bob for this...
19:43.32``Erikheh "what about bob?" ? :D
19:44.02``Erikhopefully with windows, linux and osX all on his desk, he'll avoid those issues :)
20:03.06brlcadyou'd think
20:03.56brlcadbut he still reverts to #ifdefs all the time, and 90% of the time they're not needed or desirable
20:07.27PrezKennedyneed some goto statements
20:11.19``Eriklogs in and 'updates' his cpp :D
20:12.38PrezKennedybrlcad, have you talked to my brother about his classes this semester?
20:14.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32892 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/man.tcl: Would help to be able to scroll.
20:36.29brlcadPrezKennedy: nope
20:37.12brlcadstarseeker: scrolling example in bombardier
20:37.34brlcadyou basically just tie the text area to the scrollbar
20:42.11``Erikwiggles his toes
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21:04.26PrezKennedyi hate when the Internet goes down at work
21:04.29PrezKennedyphones go too
21:04.36PrezKennedybut somehow people still manage to find me
21:18.08starseekerbrlcad:  Oh, I've got a scrollbar hooked up - I was just overriding all mouse events at the window level so when I clicked on the scrollbar to move it the window closed
21:18.40starseekerbrlcad:  sort of a "you touch it, it vanishes" kind of arrangement
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21:42.38TunaSushihello, any humans in here?
21:43.48starseekerwill aliens do?
21:44.38TunaSushiclose enough... i have a newbie question...
21:44.57TunaSushiwhat's the easiest way to get dimensions and volume from an igs file?
21:45.15starseekerigs?
21:45.28starseekeriges  you mean?
21:46.11starseekerYou can give the iges-g converter a shot and then examine the components in BRL-CAD
21:46.14TunaSushioops.  typo.  yes.  plus i'm using windows with a 3-letter file extention.
21:46.35starseekererm.  brlcad, you know if the iges-g convert is in the Windows build?
21:49.13TunaSushii haven't used brl-cad before.  downloading now... i try to use catia for iges, but i have not been able to get simple drafting info for print.
21:49.21starseekernirt can be used to examine a solid model for dimensions
21:50.01starseekerif the iges-g conversion preserves the right info - not sure about that
21:50.09TunaSushiis nirt a component of brl-cad?
21:50.28starseekeryes
21:51.02TunaSushiok.
21:52.47TunaSushiare you one of the developers?
21:53.01starseekernot a senior one, but yes
21:53.54``Eriknub
21:54.04starseekernurb
21:54.37starseekeroh, shorthand for noob?
21:54.44starseekerfair enough
21:54.59``Eriklike noob, but meaner :D
21:55.19TunaSushii was crass enough to spell it 'newbie'.  
21:55.47TunaSushiwhat OS do you guys run this on?
21:56.03``ErikI mostly use FreeBSD and MacOS-X
21:56.21starseekerOSX and gentoo linux
21:56.33``Erikbbiab, my computer told me to go home
21:57.29starseekershould get supper
21:58.44TunaSushii'm lost.
21:58.59starseekerwhat's the problem?
22:00.06TunaSushii have Archer, MGED, and RTWizard.
22:00.13starseekerThe iges-g tool is a command line tool - if it is in the Windows build it will need to be run from the Windows terminal
22:01.06starseekerLook in the BRL-CAD install directories for iges-g.exe
22:01.35starseekerprobably in a bin directory
22:01.56starseekerif it's there, open a terminal and CD into that directory.
22:02.38starseekerthen it's iges-g -o file.g path_to_iges_file
22:02.51starseekeror iges-g.exe maybe
22:03.00starseekermust run - bbiab
22:09.08*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
22:34.01louipchaha windows terminal
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23:53.47Axman6bleh, bre-cad doesn't want to build 64bit for me -_-
23:54.03Axman6brl-cad too
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081009

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081009

00:12.50brlcadstarseeker: arf, just missed you I suppose
00:12.56*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
00:12.56starseekereh?
00:13.02brlcadstarseeker: you home?
00:13.09starseekerno, back at work - grabbed supper
00:13.17brlcadOOoooh . . .
00:13.25brlcadforgot his keys
00:13.30starseekerouch
00:13.37starseekerin your office?
00:13.38brlcadso I couldn't get in :)
00:13.46brlcadI'm over in kermit's
00:13.49Axman6bah! well the latest brl-cad still fails to build properly on my system 9OS X 10.5.5) the benchmark dies with lt-rt crashing with some error about symbol not found: __cp_png_create_info_struct
00:13.51starseekerwell, come on back - I'll be here :-)
00:14.05Axman6(*
00:14.17starseeker(sounds like there may be some unhappy equipment in your room, come to think of it)
00:14.25RalithAxman6: on your system 9OS X? O.o
00:14.39Axman6OS X*
00:14.58brlcadAxman6: hm, the png thing is easily fixed,  but I forget what exactly the fix it :)
00:15.20Axman6yeah i seem to remember that was a fix
00:16.14brlcadreads backlog, and I do believe iges-g is in the windows mix
00:16.28brlcadthe 3-letter extension shouldn't be a problem/relevant
00:17.33brlcadTunaSushi: there should be a 'bin' directory, iges-g should be in there .. but yeah, you'll need some terminal lovin'
00:18.04starseekerbparker was talking about sucking the converters into libged - boy would that be nice
00:18.09brlcadAxman6: can you post a full build log including configure up somewhere?  (sorry to repeat, but I really just don't remember)
00:18.20starseekerhas daydreams of a dialog with dropdowns for CAD filetypes
00:18.33brlcadstarseeker: even better .. into their own library
00:18.46brlcadand then just having two ged commands for import/export
00:18.53Axman6yeah i will. gimme a sec to get my mouse again. this piece of crap macbook pro's keyboard and mouse randomly stop responding
00:18.55brlcadthat support any available type
00:19.14starseekerlicks his chops at the idea of such a lib
00:21.43Axman6brlcad: http://pastie.org/288294
00:22.31brlcadAxman6: cool thanks, give me a bit
00:22.37Axman6sure :)
00:23.09Axman6well, the good news is mged works fine so far
00:23.23brlcadoh, so what's the problem then? :)
00:25.17``ErikI think it's even in to TODO file, starseeker
00:25.29``ErikI know I started the hackery that is the 2d image equivelant :)
00:25.37brlcadyeah, it's been in TODO and doc/PROJECTS ever since going open source
00:29.17Axman6brlcad: the benchmark dies, and i guessing raytracing will too
00:29.27brlcadyep
00:29.44brlcadthe benchmark calls rt
00:29.58Axman6hmm, it has been far too long since i've used brl-cad. i can't remember how to do anything
00:32.53Axman6there isn't an object browser of any kind is there? like a gui where i can browse what objects i have, and display them?
00:33.27``Eriksorta kinda
00:33.33``Erikthe geometry viewer
00:33.37``Erikin 'tools' I believe
00:33.50Axman6yeah, just found it
00:34.02Axman6i had looked, not very hard obviously
00:36.37``Erikshakes fist at emacs
00:36.51Axman6and how do i just look at the raytraced image, without the outline of the objects?
00:39.53``Erikif you pull up the raytrace panel and choose 'underlay'
00:46.19Axman6urgh, how do i copy text from the mged commandn window? i'm getting an error i remember for a while ago, and i don't know how or if it can be fixed
00:47.08Axman6"The process has forked and you cannot use this CoreFoundation functionallity safely. You MUST exec()."
00:52.18``ErikO.o weird, I don't recall seeing that, the X proto worked for me on osX last I checked
00:52.31``Erikbut I don't run mged often, and I'm more apt to run it -c so *shrug*
00:52.53``Erikwhat about running an xclipboard and seeing what happens there?
00:53.23``ErikI vagually recall needing to use it to bounce things between x11.app and system cut&paste once upon a time, but that seems to have been fixed for me
01:02.51Axman6i don't know how to copy things :\
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02:24.52brlcadAxman6: run mged -f
02:25.03brlcadshould be default if you're compilng off of head though..
02:26.03brlcadAxman6: copying text from the mged command window is the same for any other x11 window (which unfortunately is not the same key bindings as aqua by default) .. make your selection then middle mouse click
02:35.51pooliobrlcad: howdy
02:38.05brlcadhowdy poolio
02:38.09brlcadhow's it going
02:49.32pooliobrlcad: good good. I've been insanely busy lately. And you?
02:50.06Axman6brlcad: -f is unrecognised, and i have middle click bound to another action. stupid X11 -_-
02:53.08brlcadpoolio: similarly insane
02:53.13brlcadand busy too I suppose ;)
02:54.10Axman6brlcad: this is with the latest release i think (7.12.6)
02:55.36brlcadhm, that's really bizzare then .. it no longer forks
02:55.44brlcaddo you maybe have a previous install somwehere?
02:56.29brlcaddoes it say "Initializing and backgrounding, please wait..." when you start mged?
02:56.31Axman6i do... but i did run sudo make install, so it should've installed over it shouldn't it?
02:56.40Axman6no
02:57.01Axman6installs again
02:58.22Axman6bleh, i need to get going
03:06.14brlcadhm, it entirely should have if you used the same build settings, but if one was --enable-all and the other wasn't, that might change matters
03:07.24brlcadAxman6: it could also just be that something has been missed wrt forking, but like I said -- we did have clean compile/installs a week or two ago on 10.5 (though we had some customizations that you probably don't have wrt external dependencies)
03:08.12yukonbobhello, cadheads
03:12.47brlcadhowdy yukonbob
04:09.11yukonbobman, what a day
04:09.33yukonboband what a slow interweb... is everybody watching Heroes or something tonight?
04:10.24yukonbobchecks to see if it's Heroes night tonight
04:17.11starseekerWell, confirmed that the iges-g crash is fixed
04:17.20starseekershould update NEWS file...
04:17.57starseekerNow the problem is the .g file wiped out my memory when I tried to draw it
04:18.52starseekerbrlcad: feel like attempting to crash your Mac? :-P
04:25.37starseekerdoes a g2asc and is awed to see a single 35MB bspline
04:30.02starseekerhmm - well, nirt is reporting hits and LOS values
04:30.47starseekerrt can't seem to do much with it though
05:15.38*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@206-248-178-214.dsl.teksavvy.com)
05:44.52*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@206-248-178-214.dsl.teksavvy.com)
06:59.20brlcadgoes walkabout to stretch the legs
07:43.04*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@206-248-178-214.dsl.teksavvy.com)
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09:01.10*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5B14F98A.dip.t-dialin.net)
09:12.45brlcadshakes his fist at the air in front of him
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10:29.45mafmhi
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11:32.55brlcadhowdy
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12:02.57claymoreMernin!
12:04.24mafm_holy disconnections, batman!
12:04.38mafm_mourim, claymore
12:10.10starseekerbrlcad:  What did that air ever do to you?
12:18.43brlcadhm? air?
12:18.47brlcadoooh
12:18.47brlcadheh
12:20.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32893 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS:
12:20.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: John fixed a bug reported on both Gentoo and Redhad Linux where iges-g was
12:20.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: crashing when run with the -n option. The cause turned out to be an incorrect
12:20.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: upper limit on a loop adjusting knot values that caused a failure when the
12:20.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: program attempted to free the knot array.
12:23.12starseekerfaces up to the reality of morning rush hour traffic and gets going
12:23.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32894 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/bombardier.c: extract the name of the command that crashed from the crash report itself.
12:23.52claymoreStarseeker:  Just bring a book ;)
12:24.05starseeker<snort> Not a bad idea
12:24.34starseekerthinks they should do "Programming Books on Tape (well, CD nowadays)"
12:25.01starseekercan see listening to Practical Common Lisp as read by the author on his way to work
12:25.04claymoreis listening to audio books during is 1.2 hour commute. Working through Anne McCaffery's Pern books.... MUCH better on tape.
12:25.10claymorelol
12:25.22starseekerHeh.  I never could get into the Pern series
12:25.41starseekerlikes David Weber's stuff so far
12:26.08claymoreThe very very frist one, Chronologically, is the first I ever read.  Got hooked.  If you try to start in the middle with the first book that was written... its tough to swallow.
12:26.22claymoreWeber has some gems also:)
12:26.22starseekerAh, that might help
12:26.36starseekerreally likes Empire from the Ashes
12:27.06claymoreDragonsDawn covers the initial colonization of Pern.  so its more Scifi that Fantasy.  I have the Audio Book on mp3 if you want it ;)
12:27.22starseekeris tempted
12:28.45claymorejust lemme know and I can burnin it to cd or email a tar to ya.
12:28.55starseekerCool - thanks!
12:29.21claymorelol actually, i just checked.  I have a backup copy at work ;)
12:29.26starseekerhehe
12:29.50starseekersounds good :-)
12:30.18starseekerreally stops procrastinating and heads in, particularly since he just gave himself one more item to add to the CCB list
12:30.43starseekertime to watch the rest of the world pretend it knows how to drive - see ya!
12:31.00claymorecyas
12:35.33mafm_bye
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13:40.14*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.204.142)
15:31.33*** join/#brlcad comics (n=asus@217.8.236.131)
15:31.48comicsstarseeker: ?
15:42.08*** join/#brlcad archivist_emc_ (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
15:44.48``Erikscratches his brain
15:50.42*** join/#brlcad claymore (n=claymore@bz.bzflag.bz)
15:51.35comicsclaymore has gone from one server to another.
15:52.22comicsor has come from one server to another... has gone or has come uh uh uh.. don't know
15:56.01claymoreis an irc newb, please cut him some slack ;)
15:57.46comicsok, i cut some slack toast for claymore
15:58.25claymoreis rather hungry.... good idea!
15:58.34comicsactually 'Karmakoma' from MassiveAttack - my previous words reminds that video
15:59.06``Erikkarmakoma, jamaica and a rome-uh
15:59.07``ErikO.o
15:59.55comicsyeah...
16:32.40comics``Erik: I want automatic dimensioning. Not myself, but e.g. separate details
16:33.08comicsprobably, 2022 fromthe birth of Jesus?
16:57.39*** part/#brlcad comics (n=asus@217.8.236.131)
17:13.06*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
17:17.24PrezKennedy<3 IRC
17:20.09``Erikerm, tmi? :D
17:23.07starseekercomics:  sorry, preparing for a meeting right now
17:35.17*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-82-225.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:24.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r32896 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/asc2g.c: add a comment token (must be first character of line)
20:24.43CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r32897 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/librender/camera.c: default to phone instead of normal
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22:50.31*** part/#brlcad TunaSushi (n=tunasush@static-70-22-154-184.bstnma.east.verizon.net)
23:00.05``ErikO.o
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081010

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081010

00:03.26``Erikhm
00:03.41``ErikGHAH! NOOOOOOOO
00:04.00``Erikmy brain said "type cvs" and my screen said "$ svn" :~(
00:38.12claymoreWell, thats better than the screen saying "$ svn" and you brain saying "Hommmmmmer." ;)
00:38.23``Erikdoooonnuuutttsssss
00:38.59``Erikwho's the catcher for fng right now? I got in fate, sent my fleet to their death, and am waiting on acceptance back into fng :/
00:39.37``Erikten dizzy's and 5 pshield make me an ugly target, but I'd still prefer having a fag tag to further dissuade :/
00:41.21``Erik<-- did some self assessment, cannot figure out how to make a profit on his bases, is happy :)
00:41.37``Erikeven with tr rapage
01:04.51*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
01:33.12starseekergets a subset of tkhtml3 much closer to "as is" in their cvs tree building just tkhtml3, but still needs to figure out such minor items as hooking the configure.in file into BRL-CAD's build system and supplying the correct flags to tell it to use the local tcl/tk instead of the system tcl/tk
01:45.12starseeker's first guess is that a "configure tkhtml3" step is needed in configure.ac and the TCL_PATH and TK_PATH variables will be involved...
01:45.41``Erikyes, yes. *shakes fist at needing to re-run autogen.sh for this tkhtml shit)
01:45.54starseekersorry
01:46.34starseekerinvites ``Erik to do it using better way
01:46.38starseekerplease...
02:28.44*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
03:31.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32898 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkhtml3/: Remove customized tkhtml3
03:37.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32899 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkhtml3/ (53 files in 4 dirs): Re-add tkhtml3 with setup closer to original.
03:39.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32900 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
03:39.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: Last steps of the reworking of tkhtml3's inclusion in src/other - keep things
03:39.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: much closer to the existing tkhtml3 build logic, use their configure.in and
03:39.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: Makefile.in, and install 'correctly' - package require Tkhtml 3.0 now works.
03:39.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: Adjusted mged dialog implementations accordingly.
03:39.49starseekerYES
03:44.23starseekerheh, weird - I couldn't draw up the phone conversion in mged, but after several hours of raytracing (cpu = 10214.8 sec, elapsed - 11896.9 sec) rt produced this image:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/phone.png
03:48.47starseekerstill needs to test for tkhtml3 in a system tcl/tk and build if not found, but tomorrow for that
03:49.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32901 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkhtml3/Makefile.in: Ooops - add Makefile.in
03:56.02starseekertests the build one more time...
03:57.02starseekerthere we go
03:57.06starseekerswwwwweeeeeet
03:57.30starseekernext up, a (slightly) better help browser
04:05.48Axman6\o/
05:10.31starseekerworks on linux - good
05:10.34starseekersleeps
05:10.39brlcad:)
05:12.56brlcadimage looks like that because it's got trimming curves on the nurbs surface
05:13.05brlcadold nurbs don't support trimmings
05:13.15brlcadwas never fully implemented
05:14.16brlcadstarseeker: as for hooking in, look at AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS
05:14.22brlcadwe do that already
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08:36.37*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5B14E413.dip.t-dialin.net)
10:17.49*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.202.188)
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10:59.15*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
11:38.09brlcadpoints at his highlights
11:38.19brlcadwanders walkabout
12:38.07*** join/#brlcad quentusrex (n=quentusr@c-71-197-244-228.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
13:14.44*** join/#brlcad CIA-4 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
14:17.41*** join/#brlcad comics (n=asus@217.118.79.42)
14:40.46``ErikO.o
14:45.24claymoreo.O
14:47.39starseekerregains consciousness (or as close as he ever gets)
14:51.28brlcad:)
14:53.52claymorebrlcad: He's back!  Coming in today?
14:56.50starseekeris tempted by the Army Technical Manual on ebay but can't help thinking it's a bit pricy...
14:57.04starseekerhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220289588108
14:57.06comicsstarseeker: see www.ansysed.narod.ru/3ptarb.html - and check e-mail - and answer to me.
15:00.46starseekercomics:  hang on, my machine doesn't seem to have the right fonts for this...
15:01.23comicsstarseeker: no! unicode utf-8
15:01.34comicseveryone has it
15:02.27starseekerapparently not
15:08.13brlcadcomics: I think that page is lacking the proper encoding markers, because it's showing up as garbage
15:09.26comicswell, i see it thru linux - juse choose UTF-8 in browser.
15:09.47brlcadyou shouldn't have to choose it -- that's why it works for you
15:10.06brlcadthe problem isn't the page -- if I save it to file and open it, it'll render correctly
15:10.21brlcadwhich means the web server is sending the wrong encoding
15:14.26*** join/#brlcad theBishop (n=theBisho@67-134-234-189.dia.static.qwest.net)
15:14.46brlcadhowdy theBishop
15:14.57theBishop:)
15:16.08starseekercomics:  OK, I see email - I will create a docbook example and send it back to you
15:38.50``ErikI'm feeling less and less happy about the docbook stuff
15:39.18``Erikit requires fop, which requires java, ... which is not... common in my little quirkosphere
15:39.29starseekerIt only requires fop for pdf
15:39.49``Erikso man pages still come up on a bare nekkid unix machine?
15:39.56starseekerabsolutely
15:40.02``Erikokie, good
15:40.27``Erik"bare naked" is not one of those linux monstrosities, btw... :D
15:45.00starseekerAs long as you've got a decent man command
15:47.40comicsstarseeker: what browser do you have?
15:47.55comics"Automatic encoding"?
16:05.57*** part/#brlcad comics (n=asus@217.118.79.42)
16:12.51starseekerfirefox
16:13.00starseekerI get same as brlcad - OK if I save the file.
16:13.03starseekerit's the web server
16:13.23starseekercomics:  I sent you an example
16:14.06starseekerneeds to get going
16:14.17starseekerkicks CIA-4
16:14.18CIA-4ow
16:14.23starseekerhmm
17:00.31brlcadcia has been mysteriously dropping (or not receiving) notifications randomly for about a week now
17:00.52brlcadabout 30% fail to show up it seems
17:09.57claymorejust like the CIA to miss information... sheesh.  *ducks*
17:10.09claymorekicks CIA-4
17:10.10CIA-4ow
17:10.17claymorelol, thats great.
17:10.26claymoreis easily amused.
17:18.24PrezKennedypunches CIA-4 in the nose
17:20.53*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
17:28.13claymoredaaaaaaaaaaaamn, he got knocked the **** out!
17:29.10brlcad~fishslap claymore
17:29.11ibotACTION slaps claymore up side the head with a wet fish.
17:29.26claymoreSalmon?
17:29.45claymore~suckerpunch brlcad
17:29.54claymoreHrm.... didn't work :P
17:38.47brlcad~suckerpunch claymore
17:38.47ibotACTION wanders casually by brlcad and abruptly delivers a stiff upper-cut to brlcad's lower jaw
17:38.54brlcadhah, oops :)
17:39.37brlcad~suckerpunch claymore
17:39.37ibotACTION wanders casually by claymore and abruptly delivers a stiff upper-cut to claymore's lower jaw
17:39.43brlcadthat's better
17:39.46claymorelol
17:40.32brlcadlistkeys sucker
17:40.37brlcad~listkeys sucker
17:40.48brlcadmm..
17:40.50claymorejust don't add donkeypunch or you will lose a lot of channel members...
17:41.00brlcad~sucker punch someone
17:41.01ibotACTION slugs someone in the gut
17:41.42brlcadcouldn't lose anymore than whale slapping ;)
17:45.14archivisthmm must add more violence my bot
17:50.47claymore~suckerpunch brlcad
17:50.48ibotACTION wanders casually by brlcad and abruptly delivers a stiff upper-cut to brlcad's lower jaw
17:51.40*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5B14E413.dip.t-dialin.net)
17:54.30*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5B14E413.dip.t-dialin.net)
17:55.37*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5B14E413.dip.t-dialin.net)
18:19.26*** join/#brlcad Nikty (n=nicholas@89.163.117.94)
18:19.29Niktyhi
18:19.35brlcadhello
18:19.50Nikty``Erik: i see freebsd port is marked as broken now)
18:20.09Niktyso, X crashing problem was not only for me )
18:20.55Niktybtw, can brlcad export ro autocads' .dwg?
18:26.38brlcadNikty: no, dwg is a closed/proprietary file format
18:26.54Niktyclear
18:26.55brlcadnot likely we'd support that format any time soon
18:30.09brlcad``Erik: you have an airline pref?
18:36.56*** join/#brlcad sysed (n=asus@217.118.79.35)
18:38.16sysedBrenda was in her bedroom when her roommate came home. Her roommate Naima is a very busty blonde who loves to play with Brenda's firm assertions. She slowly walks into Brenda's room and climbs into bed with her. She then pulls down Brenda's panties and gives her tushy a nice kiss.
18:38.51sysedreminds: "another gender, no computers" - The spirit of Nicolopopas
18:41.05claymore~fishslap sysed
18:41.06ibotACTION slaps sysed up side the head with a wet fish.
18:41.13sysedTina and Joni were hanging out together after work. They are both bartenders at one of the most sophisticated computer clubs in the city. After work they decided to take a showers then settle down with each other. After a few minutes of kissing and touching brave new FOSS, Tina bends Joni over the couch and proceeds to give her a very deep anal tongue!
18:41.47sysedreminds: "Another gender, not computers - is our goal" - the spirit of Niclolopas
18:42.19sysedseriously, i will live in such a kind world!
18:42.49claymore~suckerpunch sysed
18:42.50ibotACTION wanders casually by sysed and abruptly delivers a stiff upper-cut to sysed's lower jaw
18:43.31sysedcome on! Kids don't draw 3D models! Relax!
18:43.45brlcadsysed: please don't
18:43.50sysedok
18:44.19sysedjust've uncovered and unfold something new
18:47.36claymoreis not sure he wants to know...
18:48.08sysedjust have never seen anything more kind... except free open source software
18:48.24sysedno, choose freedom
18:48.47*** part/#brlcad Nikty (n=nicholas@89.163.117.94)
18:49.35claymoreright.....
18:52.43sysedkindness as it is
18:55.20starseekerthank goodness
18:55.32starseekerwould have kicked
18:55.35brlcadstarseeker: that was comic
18:55.45brlcader, "comics"
18:55.46starseekeroh, lovely
18:56.07starseekergreat - how are we supposed to trust his translations now
18:56.50claymoremy first reaction to his first post was: "Pics or it never happened!"  But then he got wierd....
18:58.18brlcadhe stopped when asked, so no persisted harm done -- it's only when they ignore the channel nettiquette after learning it that makes someone an assclown
18:59.39brlcadyeah, that was just very "wierd" .. probably bored if I had to guess
19:00.09starseekerhe shouldn't be bored - he has a template now for MGED command docbook :-P
19:00.30claymoreBased on the scene he was setting, um, the last thing on my mind would be FOSS...
19:00.39brlcadah, so working on mged docs did that to him .. ;)
19:01.26starseekerThe 3ptarb commit that CIA declined to mention should work for most of the existing description/examples pairs found in current MGED documentation
19:02.09brlcadyou should commit an empty templated example
19:02.23starseekernods
19:11.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32904 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/ (README mged_cmd_template.xml): Add a template to help when converting existing MGED command documentation in html files to Docbook man pages.
19:13.22starseekeradmits to thinking it is cool that all he has to do is add the xml file to system/man1/en and put in the Makefile.am directory.
19:14.03starseekerfile, not directory
20:04.46*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5B14E413.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:05.52*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5B14E413.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:06.46*** join/#brlcad archivist_emc_ (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
20:34.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32905 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am nirt.xml): Add nirt.xml to man1.
20:36.37starseekerbrlcad:  Erm.  Should I go ahead and upload the rtarea man page or will your rewrite change things?
20:37.01brlcaddon't wait for me
20:37.06starseekerk
20:45.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32906 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/Makefile.am: Add rtarea to man1
20:46.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32907 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/rtarea.xml: Add rtarea to man1 - add the file this time
20:58.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32908 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am rtcheck.xml): Add rtcheck to man1
21:10.25*** join/#brlcad phreak_ (n=phreak@70-56-28-87.eugn.qwest.net)
22:11.15*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.202.188)
22:59.12``Eriknikty: I submitted a patch for the fbsd port
22:59.35``Erikbrlcad: not really, uh, !swa i guess? tell me where to be, I'll do it
23:00.52*** join/#brlcad punkrockgirl (i=Pandora@c-69-247-220-102.hsd1.mo.comcast.net)
23:00.54punkrockgirlhi
23:00.57brlcad``Erik: you should have an e-mail
23:01.00brlcadhey punky
23:01.09``Erikbites punker
23:01.11punkrockgirl:D
23:01.27punkrockgirli thought you were napping :P
23:01.41``Erikpunker is gonna dj in a bit and she's doing two of my 'finds', so ya'll should listen
23:01.43punkrockgirli came by to invite people to listen to my show in an hour :D
23:01.46``Erik"elbow" and "the bird and the bee"
23:01.48brlcadwork's over, he should be done napping
23:01.56``Erikno, I had today off
23:02.03punkrockgirlyeah, he's a bum
23:02.15``Erikmonday is holiday and my rdo, so I get today as holiday, took my car to the shop, worked on the yard waste some, etc
23:02.17punkrockgirl4 day weekend for columbus day?
23:02.23punkrockgirl:P
23:02.24``Erikcleaned the garage for a bit
23:02.26punkrockgirli dont get off on monday
23:02.31punkrockgirlwhat is that about?
23:02.43``Erik?
23:02.49punkrockgirl?
23:02.55``Erikwhat is what about? O.o
23:02.57punkrockgirlwhy dont i get off on monday?
23:03.01punkrockgirland you do
23:03.05punkrockgirlhow does that work?
23:03.06``Erikcuz I rock and yo usuck
23:03.15brlcadwhat's that url again?
23:03.17punkrockgirlyou cannot even type correctly
23:03.22``Eriktroubleradio.net
23:03.23punkrockgirlwww.troubleradio.net
23:05.52punkrockgirli need to go make a playlist
23:05.56brlcad~punkrockgirl is a suave chic punk rock chick that sometime DJ's for www.troubleradio.net and is rumored to have some sort of affiliation with ``Erik so check out the station sometime to hear her tunage
23:05.57ibotbrlcad: okay
23:05.59``Erikya gonna do both bird and the bee songs?
23:06.01punkrockgirland my dumb mic better work or i might smash it
23:06.03punkrockgirlsure
23:06.23punkrockgirlhaha, some sort of affiliation ;)
23:06.33punkrockgirland i'm suave
23:06.34punkrockgirllol
23:06.40``Eriksettle down, rico O.o
23:06.46punkrockgirlmy friend used to call me rica suave
23:06.48punkrockgirl:P
23:06.53``Erikso'z I can affiliate you until you can't walk
23:06.54``Erik*cough*
23:06.57punkrockgirlhehe
23:07.09brlcadnow I can find the url ;)
23:07.13brlcad~punkrockgirl
23:07.14iboti guess punkrockgirl is a suave chic punk rock chick that sometime DJ's for http://www.troubleradio.net and is rumored to have some sort of affiliation with ``Erik so check out the station sometime to hear her tunage
23:07.19``Eriksoul coughing would be good, too
23:07.31punkrockgirlhaha
23:07.34``Erik~c
23:07.35ibotsomebody said c was for maniacs  C code. C code run. Run, code, run. Please?
23:07.45``Erik~tcl
23:07.46ibot[tcl] at http://www.scriptics.com/ or in feed "http://handhelds.org/feeds/tcl"
23:07.48``Erik~lisp
23:07.49iboti guess lisp is a theory that unexpectedly became a programming language http://paulgraham.com/icad.html
23:07.54``Erik~monkeyspank
23:07.55brlcadhah
23:07.58punkrockgirl;P
23:08.07brlcad~spank ``Erik
23:08.08ibotACTION bends ``Erik over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on ``Erik's pasty white buttocks.
23:08.16``Erikkinky
23:08.25``Erikwow, byrds came up on helen
23:08.26``ErikO.O
23:08.38``Erikstrips and dances funky
23:09.17punkrockgirlhawt
23:14.19punkrockgirli think bucc is telling helen what to play
23:15.12brlcadpunkrockgirl: so are you on now?
23:15.35``Erikat 8, I reckon O.o
23:15.42brlcadah,k
23:16.41*** join/#brlcad phreak4257 (n=phreak@70-56-28-87.eugn.qwest.net)
23:18.34``Erikgrumbles because his car is not in his garage
23:19.34punkrockgirlyeah not yet, in like 45 mins
23:22.02punkrockgirlwhat were those bird/bee songs?
23:22.03punkrockgirl:P
23:22.26``Erikheh
23:22.32``Erik"fucking boyfriend" and "again and again"
23:22.52``Erikbands name is "the bird and the bee"
23:24.32punkrockgirlyes i know
23:24.45punkrockgirli just couldnt remember which song
23:26.14``Erikbut all of 'em are good, that band kicks butt
23:30.41``Erik"paladins can't use the helm of destruction" family guy ftw
23:36.28punkrockgirli may go in in a min
23:41.05``Erikheh, lame, a light strike force is 200 cruisers, 800 fighters, and 400 cyclers to pick up the trash... this game gets lame :(
23:43.51punkrockgirlyeah im just aimlessly making shit
23:43.55punkrockgirlim not really sure what im doing :D
23:44.03``Erikmake fighters and cruisers mostly
23:44.05punkrockgirland no, i didnt read the url you told me to read
23:44.10``Erikheh
23:44.30``Erikbrlcad managed to pass up my level :( he didn't get stomped on like I did
23:44.52``ErikI'm thinking after i'm done with this guild excursion, I'm gonna come home and destroy dm.
23:44.55``Eriklike, all of it
23:45.04``Erikpewpewpew
23:45.23``ErikI passed on easy targets when you were in that guild, but they booted ya, so, y'know, ...
23:45.27``Erikpewpewpew :D
23:46.01punkrockgirlok im on
23:46.03punkrockgirlso go listen
23:46.08punkrockgirlim testing the mic
23:47.02``Erikall but one of my bases will have pshields tomorrow, so I'm feeling fairly well defended
23:47.10``Erikand I need monies for pringles
23:48.04punkrockgirljesus
23:48.08punkrockgirlso no mic i assume?
23:48.09``Eriknope
23:51.43punkrockgirlim gonna reboot
23:51.43punkrockgirlbrb
23:55.42*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-92-23.dclient.hispeed.ch)
23:56.52*** join/#brlcad punkrockgirl (i=Pandora@c-69-247-220-102.hsd1.mo.comcast.net)
23:56.57punkrockgirlok pray for me
23:57.21punkrockgirland are you still listening?
23:58.06punkrockgirlim back on
23:59.07``ErikO.o
23:59.09``Erikbeck
23:59.13``Erikright?
23:59.19``Erikyeah, beck - gamma ray
23:59.45``ErikI moved my tiny assault fleet, got a message saying I was out of range for level
23:59.47``Erik*pout*
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081011

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081011

00:00.00``Erikthat means a) I suck and b) target spotted me
00:00.18``ErikI should head up to 59 to whack that learner boy, mebbe get some monies that way
00:00.39punkrockgirlyes
00:00.44punkrockgirlok listen
00:01.47``Erikno voice
00:01.49``Erikjust dead air
00:02.39punkrockgirlchrist
00:02.42punkrockgirlwhy
00:02.44punkrockgirl:(
00:03.40``Eriknot a clue, the VUmeter read hot when you did it?
00:03.43punkrockgirlum, what is sprtcmd.exe
00:03.50punkrockgirlyes
00:04.54``Erik"dell support agent"
00:04.57``Erikhttp://www.what-is-exe.com/filenames/sprtcmd-exe.html
00:05.50punkrockgirlwell here is your song
00:05.50``Erikelbow, w00t
00:05.53``Erik*dance*
00:06.08``Erikyou don't dig it?
00:07.44punkrockgirlsure i do
00:09.20punkrockgirlim so mad at this craphole computer
00:09.21``Erikdead air again
00:09.39``Erikgot a rebuffering stream window, may've been my end
00:09.58``Erikheh, wow, you're just chugging my requests one after another here O.o
00:10.15punkrockgirl;D
00:10.21punkrockgirlits cuz i like you
00:10.29``Eriksweet, the non-censored version
00:11.28``Erikyes, that's right. I'm not metrosexual, I'm not gay, I'm APPLE gay.
00:12.14``Erikbends over and shoves a mac pro up his rectum O.o
00:12.43punkrockgirl;P
00:12.45punkrockgirlim scared
00:14.04``Erikmac pro is a scary big machine with big vented surfaces and big fins
00:14.22punkrockgirland um
00:14.28punkrockgirlyou want it up your ass because...?
00:14.28``Erikawesome footrest
00:14.33``Erikalso; l7 ftw
00:14.43``Erikcuz I'm apple gay?
00:15.20``Erikdont' you want a http://switchtoamac.com/images/hardware/macs/macpro/macpro_hero.jpg in your rectum?
00:15.54punkrockgirlomg listen i might have fixed it
00:15.57punkrockgirland um, no?
00:15.58``Erikl7 is kinda weird, they're not quite grrl
00:16.04``Erikbut real effin' close
00:16.32``Erikuh, grrl was a sorta kinda subgenre of the seattle scene in the early 90's
00:16.35``Erikno voice, dead air
00:17.28``Erikwhen I was dj'ing, I usually had a laptop in the living room hooked up to the zomfg audio system and listening to the stream... and the audio output on my laptop I was dj'ing from was turned off
00:17.29``Erik:)
00:18.20punkrockgirlheh
00:18.23punkrockgirli know?
00:18.40punkrockgirlalthough my stereo is downstairs and im not
00:19.31``Erikjust sayin' what I did *shrug*
00:19.58``Erikyou've seen my setup, I had the audio system cranking the toons and sat at my table dj'ing
00:20.44``Erikbrlcad, wake up, I wanna float some thoughts by ya
00:21.35``ErikI want asc to be important, like, move the in/out into the primitive logic and gut asc2g/g2asc
00:22.21``Erikdead air again, punker
00:24.40``Erik<PROTECTED>
00:24.57``Eriki think we need to capture keyframe information for linear interpolation
00:25.02``Erikminimally
00:26.07``Erikponders the meaning of interpolation with complex primitives (pipe, metaball) and changes in tree form O.o skeery)
00:27.02clock_complex primitives? With an imaginary part?
00:27.04``Erikyour mic kinda works now, very quiet, though
00:27.12clock_shouldn't work so much with complex impedances
00:27.28punkrockgirlstill trying
00:27.38clock_punkrockgirl: cool nick
00:27.47``Erikclock, things like bot, pipe and metaball are insane primitives
00:27.50punkrockgirlthanks :D
00:28.04``ErikI call them "complex", I don't mean +i, I mean nontrivial :)
00:28.06clock_is a bot, ``Erik is a pipe
00:28.19``Erik'sall good, punker likes my pipe
00:28.24punkrockgirlhaha
00:28.26punkrockgirl:D
00:28.30clock_punkrockgirl: youre a girl?
00:28.56``Erikyes, she is
00:29.09``Eriklast I checked, anyways
00:30.30``Erikannoying, I thought I found a target, but level cap got me
00:30.47clock_punkrockgirl: and you like punk and/or rock? Iggy Pop? Devo?
00:31.03``Erikyour voice level is WAY below the music level, baby...
00:31.08punkrockgirli know im working on it
00:31.15punkrockgirli'm dj'ing right now clock, go listen :D
00:31.22punkrockgirlwww.troubleradio.net
00:31.23``Eriktroubleradio.net
00:31.26punkrockgirlexcept my dumb mic hates me
00:31.27``Erik:)
00:32.26``ErikI'm continually impressed by audioslave, btw... swapping zach for chris... awesomeness ensues
00:32.27clock_punkrockgirl and the smurfettes
00:32.32clock_first read surfettes
00:32.45punkrockgirlhaha
00:32.53clock_punkrockgirl: do you have a pic? I am a gay so you don't have to worry that I would pester you
00:33.05punkrockgirlask erik for one of me :)
00:33.22``ErikI mean, it's cool that zach has a message, but, wtf, chill out, man
00:33.23punkrockgirlor i suppose i could give you my myspace
00:33.33clock_punkrockgirl: pity that the radio doesn't transmit in Ogg Vorbis
00:33.50``Erikheh, even if clock liked the tuna boat, he's in effin' croatia :D
00:35.42clock_punkrockgirl: you have a nice voice
00:35.44``Erikit's not an on/off issue, t's a volume issue
00:36.04``Erikthe "what if I do this" got you slightly louder
00:36.20``Eriktegan and sarah?
00:36.32``Erikoh, santogold
00:36.35clock_punkrockgirl: you play only punk rock and so?
00:38.35*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
00:39.10``Erikshe's up the street from me
00:39.14``Eriklike 1.5 hour drive
00:39.44``Erikphilly, yo
00:39.55punkrockgirloh yeah? you visit her often?
00:40.03``Erikyou betcha
00:40.06punkrockgirlclock: can you hear me?  my dumb mic sucks :(
00:40.10``Erikhot nasty sex, every night
00:40.28punkrockgirl:(
00:40.39clock_punkrockgirl: I could hear you but it was much less loud than the music. After I adjusted my volume to your voice the music was too loud afterwards
00:40.42punkrockgirlclock: kinda, idk i play like alt stuff
00:40.55punkrockgirllol yeah im gonna turn the music down i think in a sec
00:40.58clock_Do you play commercial music or Creative Commons?
00:41.32Ralith``Erik: aren't hot and nasty mutually exclusive?
00:41.43clock_suggest Raveonettes: Love In A Trashcan, Iggy Pop: Passenger or Devo: Gut Feeling
00:42.25clock_punkrockgirl: you should rather turn the voice up. Otherwise the music will not exploit the whole dynamic range.
00:42.35punkrockgirlthe mic is maxed out
00:42.35``Erikralith: hardly
00:42.38punkrockgirli cant figure out whats wrong
00:42.53``Erikravenettes, I saw 'em live and have their trashcan cd, they're good
00:43.07``Erikboy drank wine like it was going out of style
00:43.17clock_punkrockgirl: now the music is modulated exactly properly, utilizing the whole range
00:43.24clock_checked a streamdump in audacity
00:43.32``Erikreminded me of terry, who probably plays guitar better :)
00:44.12``Erikgirl only strapped the guitar on for like 2 songs
00:44.16``Erikwas a good show, though
00:44.33``Erikand I was able to buy guinness on tap, so it was all good
00:44.42``Erikhah
00:44.50punkrockgirlmaybe i'll just play music and not talk then ;D
00:45.41clock_punkrockgirl: hehe youre playing those raveonettes :)
00:45.50clock_didnt listen for a moment when he played with stream dumps
00:45.57clock_thanks to punkrockgirl for the raveonettes
00:46.38``Erikthis is makin' me sad, cuz, uh, this is the band when he saw wehn punker was, uh, doin' things and stuff to some married dude :(
00:46.56clock_punkrockgirl: what about this Creative Commons CC-BY-SA tune it's kinda faster blues would you fit into your programme? http://ronja.twibright.com/cc-by-sa_music/Red\ Light.ogg
00:47.15clock_I put it as a soundtrack to my surfing movie
00:47.16``Erikpunker is a winiot, karel
00:47.35clock_oh has to be mp3?
00:47.56clock_specific bitrate?
00:48.17``Erikshe uses the, uh, winamp plugin, I believe
00:48.28clock_winamp should be able to play ogg
00:49.03punkrockgirlidk ogg
00:49.06clock_but there is an mp3 somehwere
00:49.33punkrockgirl<PROTECTED>
00:49.54clock_punkrockgirl: here should be mp3 directly from jamendo http://download3.jamendo.com/download/track/73007/mp32/f6f58829c9/Red%20Light.mp3
00:50.15clock_Or here is the page if that won't work http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/6439
00:50.20clock_It's called Red Light
00:50.39clock_I also have my own directory of my the-best-of CC-BY-SA from Jamendo
00:50.52clock_http://ronja.twibright.com/cc-by-sa_music/
00:50.58clock_Ogg vorbis 128kbps all unfortunately
00:51.00punkrockgirlim afraid to try to open it cuz my computer will wipe out my playlist
00:51.03punkrockgirland play that instead ;P
00:51.08punkrockgirl128 is ok
00:51.15punkrockgirl96 sucks ;P
00:51.23punkrockgirlsome of my songs are unfortunately 128
00:51.37clock_128kbps ogg is like 160 mp3
00:52.16clock_punkrockgirl: you need songs with singing?
00:52.18``Erik160 vbr mp3
00:52.27``Erikvbr is big shit
00:52.40clock_``Erik: why?
00:52.59punkrockgirli prefer songs with singing
00:53.00punkrockgirl;D
00:53.03``Erik168 mp3 vs 168 vbr is insanely different
00:53.09punkrockgirlok im gonna run kara
00:53.13punkrockgirli'll be in and out here
00:53.15punkrockgirl;D
00:53.20``Erikdo they need a tank?
00:53.38clock_M1A1 Abrams?
00:54.10``Erikbah, who uses a1 anymore? it's all m1a2 now
00:54.22``Erikwith the packs on
00:56.59punkrockgirlif you would ever log in :P
00:57.08punkrockgirlthere is another run i think tonight
00:58.40``Erikwell, I'm waiting for you to tell me hwen to get in a group :(
00:59.19``Eriki'm your "pocket tank" :(
01:06.08*** join/#brlcad a-nice (n=asus@217.118.79.43)
01:06.44*** part/#brlcad a-nice (n=asus@217.118.79.43)
01:06.45*** join/#brlcad a-nice (n=asus@217.118.79.43)
01:08.26starseekerfights the urge to write a user manual for rt...
01:12.25a-nicestarseeker: can you write manuals and docs for telecommunicarion?
01:12.43starseekerwhat's that?
01:13.03a-niceif you cam, you can cut some money
01:13.07a-nicesee IM
01:13.58*** join/#brlcad phreak4257 (n=phreak@70-56-28-87.eugn.qwest.net)
01:14.23a-nicesee?
01:14.42brlcad``Erik: heh, with unfulfilled threats from folks 30 levels up that figured out it would be profitable? :)
01:15.13starseekera-nice:  Heh.  Not my area of interest though
01:15.25starseekernot much $$ for the effort involved, either
01:15.59a-nicestarseeker: but check their offers. could be yours
01:16.12starseekerhas full time job :-)
01:16.14a-niceyes, i think same
01:16.29a-niceoh... I thought you're student
01:16.38starseekernope
01:16.47a-nicea nice...
01:17.01a-nicei thought you do
01:17.10brlcadso gut away, refactoring junk from apps back up into the libs is always good
01:17.28starseekereh?
01:17.45brlcadand especially any places in the code where there are tables of primitive types.. that junk belongs up with the primitives
01:18.02starseekerAh - you're thinking like nirt, only more so? :-P
01:18.12a-nicebrlcad: can we wait e.g. automatic dimensioning from coders? just someday. as Pro-E?
01:18.42starseekerwould end up implementing a zoom option on rt if he dug into it...
01:22.12starseekerheads home...
01:29.19*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
01:33.59a-nicePrezKennedy: i voted for you
01:36.35brlcadstarseeker: was referring to ``Erik and something he was mentioning earlier
01:36.46brlcadabout refactoring asc2g/g2asc up into src/librt/primitives
01:37.06brlcada-nice: some day, sure
01:50.58*** part/#brlcad a-nice (n=asus@217.118.79.43)
04:28.50starseekerbrlcad: Ah :-)
04:29.13starseekerthat makes more sense :-)
04:32.14*** join/#brlcad phreak4257 (n=phreak@70-56-28-87.eugn.qwest.net)
05:27.08*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
10:09.31*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.193.37)
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10:45.17*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-90-5.dclient.hispeed.ch)
12:00.44*** join/#brlcad archivist_emc (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
20:28.08*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet-45-219.dorm.utexas.edu)
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23:18.49*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet-45-219.dorm.utexas.edu)
23:31.46punkrockgirlhi people
23:31.52punkrockgirland bots
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081012

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081012

03:18.55*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
03:45.17*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet-45-219.dorm.utexas.edu)
03:50.19starseekerpunkrockgirl:  howdy
04:16.24yukonbobhello, cadheads
04:23.04*** join/#brlcad phreak4257 (n=phreak@71-210-20-159.eugn.qwest.net)
06:52.22*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-90-5.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:02.05*** join/#brlcad illethal (n=oden@c-71-200-221-159.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
07:02.19*** part/#brlcad illethal (n=oden@c-71-200-221-159.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
07:33.20brlcadpokes in and waves
08:07.58*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet-45-219.dorm.utexas.edu)
08:27.46*** join/#brlcad geocalc (n=geocalc@91-171-193-121.rev.libertysurf.net)
08:35.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32909 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (Makefile.am pcMathGrammar.h):
08:35.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: working towards a Math Grammar for the creation of stack by parsing so that
08:35.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: MathVM can evaluate it. NameGrammar, VariableGrammar, ExpressionGrammar to be
08:35.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: extended. Variable_grammar and Constraint_grammar presently in pcParser to be
08:35.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: modified/removed
10:29.52*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
11:36.43louipcpunkrockgirl: check out this band from NJ http://www.myspace.com/darkempireband
12:41.12*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5B14D108.dip.t-dialin.net)
13:17.57*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.207.111)
14:03.00*** join/#brlcad cad66 (n=5bcb6013@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:47.34*** join/#brlcad pacman871 (n=Timothy@resnet-45-219.dorm.utexas.edu)
15:37.58brlcad\o/ homovulgaris added closure to the expression grammar
17:24.06*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-72-7.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:04.47*** join/#brlcad tony-h (n=aeheathc@dumbo.csl.mtu.edu)
18:55.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32912 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (64 files): lots of style, indendation, and comment consistency cleanups
18:59.29punkrockgirllouic:  they sound good with a hint of evil that kinda scares me ;)
18:59.35punkrockgirlstarseeker: hi
19:05.46clock_punkrockgirl: hey
19:06.03clock_punkrockgirl: wheres the radio URL?
19:21.24punkrockgirlwww.troubleradio.net  but im not on right now
19:21.32punkrockgirli think the bot is playing
19:32.49*** part/#brlcad tony-h (n=aeheathc@dumbo.csl.mtu.edu)
20:01.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32913 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: ws
20:23.57*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
20:35.29*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
20:37.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32914 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/xdr.c: get rid of dead code, bu_gtimeval bu_ptimeval
20:53.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32915 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/uce-dirent.h: revert style chnages, not our file.
21:02.44*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5B14D108.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:05.50*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.207.111)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081013

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081013

01:56.45starseekerplays around with Docbook 5...
02:25.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32916 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/rb_internals.h: comments tweakage
04:01.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32917 10/brlcad/trunk/src/irprep/ (Makefile.am see2.1 see2.c): remove unused duplication, kill see2.
04:03.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32918 10/brlcad/trunk/src/irprep/ (Makefile.am see.1 see.c): remove unused duplication, kill see (replaced by ir-X).
06:23.42*** join/#brlcad alex_jon1 (n=juve@81.196.65.201)
07:06.10*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
07:17.41*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:53.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32919 10/brlcad/trunk/ (20 files in 9 dirs): move g-dxf, dxf-g, and bot-bldxf into src/conv/dxf so some of the common functionality can be abstracted.
08:01.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32920 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/CMakeLists.txt: moved dxf sources to subdir
13:02.53*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
13:02.55*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5B14F923.dip.t-dialin.net)
13:11.10mafmhello
13:55.56*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
14:34.11brlcadhowdy mafm
14:38.21mafmback at Lisbon
14:38.42mafmso... lot's of fun and so on :)
14:50.01brlcadcool
14:50.06brlcadvacation traveling? or family?
14:51.53mafmthis time vacation + bureaocracies
14:52.08mafmI won't be back there for 2 months or so
14:59.57brlcadcurious how you'd travel and disappear
15:00.05brlcadI know when I travel, I stay connected :)
15:00.49brlcadscreen is particularly great for that, but even just being offline *shudder*
15:26.46``Erikvile vehemence. Random acts of unruliness. blah.
15:27.15``Erik$2400 for a routine workover of my car. *sob*
15:27.44``Erikwith another 5000 waiting for me.
15:57.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32921 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/dxf/ (Makefile.am dxf-g.c dxf.h g-dxf.c): eliminate the duplication. separate the rgb table into a common header file.
16:04.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32922 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/dxf/dxf-g.c: remove about 100 lines of duplication, the text and attrib processing functions were identical
16:10.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32923 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/g-x3d.c: ugh, more if-def'd forever code. remove all the dead vrml code that the x3d exporter was derived off of.
16:16.52mafmbrlcad: in example for turkey, I didn't bring the laptop with me
16:16.54mafmand this week I was connected sometimes, from my parent's home
16:24.53mafm``Erik: go green, buy a donkey... the maintainance is cheaper for sure :)
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16:58.22brlcad``Erik: haha
16:58.46brlcadmafm: all the more reason to use screen
17:00.02mafmbut then I would have to read 1 week of logs, etc :D
17:01.16mafmI already have thousands of websites posting to read (subscriptions), some hundreds of mails, etc
17:02.08brlcadnah, /last -hilight
17:02.14brlcadjust see what matters to you
17:11.37mafmwell, there's mail and memos, I'm not much into permanente connectivity really ;)
17:13.01mafmspeaking of which, I haven't seen many mails regarding libged in the commits ML
17:13.10mafmis that part already "stable"?
17:17.58brlcadno, it's still being worked -- there were a bunch of offline discussions last week
17:18.29brlcadbob was working on converters for a bit, taking a break, but now he's about ready to finish up libged
17:18.33brlcadi'd say it's about 80%
17:25.14mafmnice
17:25.55mafmhow much is that in terms of time? till the end of the year?
17:42.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32924 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/dxf/g-dxf.c: restructure to not require forward function declarations. also pass in a callback structure during db_walk_tree so that do_region_end can be generic and shared among the tessellating exporters.
17:46.24brlcadhard to say, but I would expect another month or two before it's done, another to put a suite of tests in place, integrate into mged, and work out remaining issues
17:47.13brlcadalso being added to the refactoring now, it seems, is getting all of the converters exposed into libged as well with the addition of a new geometry converter library
17:47.20brlcadthat refactors src/conv
17:47.33brlcadneed a good name for it
17:54.33mafm:)
17:55.09mafmwe can use a name generator for roleplaying games or something like that, it would be handy with all these names around :)
17:57.16mafmwell, going to hunt for food to the grocery store
17:57.19mafmsee you!
17:58.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32925 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/dxf/g-dxf.c: overarchitecting. get rid of the anticipatory struct, just pass the function directly since it's all we need in do_region_end.
18:02.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32926 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/dxf/dxf-g.c: quell warnings
19:02.00brlcadfinds a name and likes it
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20:02.00z_starseeker: have you fulfilled the comand in text editor? Or was it a sophisticated text editor as OpenOffice.org? I've already started to work...
20:11.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32927 10/brlcad/trunk/ (10 files in 6 dirs):
20:11.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: begin LIBGCV, a geometry conversion library. the intent of this library is to
20:11.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: allow conversion to/from a variety of geometry file formats, migrating and
20:11.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: generalizing logic from src/conv into a useful library. start with a simple
20:11.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: region callback that is logic shared by many of the mesh-format exporters.
20:16.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32928 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/PROJECTS: it exists .. sorta. just started libgcv as a geometry conversion library.
20:23.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32929 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/ (Makefile.am g-stl.c): make g-stl use the new gcv_region_end callback instead of it's own (identical) copy of do_region_end.
20:23.25brlcadz_: I believe he has been using emacs -- xml mode helping there
20:23.48z_ok
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21:53.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32930 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/brlcad-config.in: add libgcv to the managed libs list for brlcad-config
21:54.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32931 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): add a pkg_config file for libged and libgcv
21:58.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32932 10/brlcad/trunk/src/Makefile.am:
21:58.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: enable generation and installation of a libbrlcad public library for providing
21:58.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: application developers a convenient/simplified collection of the core brl-cad
21:58.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: libraries that relate to geometry processing (and to sort of match what daniels
21:58.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: dll bundle for windows does)
22:14.41CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32933 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/cmakecheck.sh: check new libgcv too
22:25.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32934 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkhtml3/: ignore generated files
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081014

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081014

00:19.43CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32936 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpkg/pkg.c: quell some g++ compilation errors related to exact function prototype matching and needing to declare errno globally
00:21.33CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32937 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpkg/tpkg.c: quell c++ error
00:25.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32938 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/bomb.c: quell warnings/errors for c++ compilation mode
00:31.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32939 10/brlcad/trunk/include/cmd.h: include the complete function prototype, make the compiler happy
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00:47.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32940 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs): quell more compilation warnings that c++ compilation mode enjoys throwing a fit over. mostly constness and exact callback matching.
00:50.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32941 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/convert.c: cast accordingly
00:50.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32942 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/fnmatch.c: don't use 'class' for a variable name since it's a reserved word in c++
00:53.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32943 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/ (hash.c list.c log.c): more 'new' variables, rename to something less conflicting
00:59.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32944 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/malloc.c: more warning quellage related to c++ mode
01:34.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32945 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs): and round-robin we go. fix things back up on the C side since a variety of warnings crept in. mostly related to propagating constness, but it's not clear that bu_key_eq_to_key_val() is correct at the moment.
01:42.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32946 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: revert back to an unknown function callback. there are other front-end callers that make up their own arguments for the callback table.
01:53.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32947 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (view_obj.c wdb_obj.c wdb_vdraw.c): more quellage spillover
01:54.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32948 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (bu.h cmd.h): revert here too for callback args but because of constness and genptr_t args
02:06.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32951 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: constness quellage
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06:11.49brlcadyawns
06:14.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32953 10/brlcad/trunk/src/liboptical/sh_prj.c: ws
06:31.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32954 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/bombardier.c: emphasize if the appname is not known
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07:35.27brlcadthinks it's time to caffinate
07:43.22clock_just read about Kerrson Predictor and Norden Bombsight, analog computers used in a war.
07:55.43brlcadavoids the temptation to google
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08:43.20brlcadhowdy pacman87
08:43.28brlcadup late, eh?
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10:47.29Axman6brlcad: ever done any work using Ada?
11:03.48brlcadAxman6: not really
11:04.43Axman6righto. thought you may have, being in the army 'n all. anyway, you might like this all the same http://bit.csc.lsu.edu/~gb/csc4101/Reading/gigo-1997-04.html
11:04.55Axman6the real story behind Ada >_>
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12:21.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32955 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 5 dirs): Added support for commands that prompt for input. The first command of this type to be added to libged is "in". Also modified libtclcad's ged_obj to make use of this type of command.
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12:48.47mafmhi
12:59.30claymorehai!
13:15.19``Erikiie
13:15.20``Erik!
13:15.30``Erikano wa kuso tarre desu ne
13:15.37``Erik:D
13:17.22claymoreErik has been drinking again....
13:18.30``Erikyes, guzzling down coffee at the moment O.o OOAAAHHH </beavis|thegreatcornholio>
13:32.36starseekerclaymore:  How can you tell?
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15:00.54starseekeranyone else seeing a buggered build on libgcv/region_end.c?
15:01.24starseekeris building out of source
15:45.15brlcadciao monsignore mafm
15:45.26brlcadstarseeker: did you autogen.sh?
15:45.34brlcadhave to kick the tires because of the new dir
15:45.49brlcadi've also not done a linux build yet, so might need some tweaks
15:54.36mafmgoing to a job interview, see you
15:54.42brlcadcya!
15:54.43brlcadgood luck
15:55.31mafmthanks :)
16:14.52brlcadstarseeker: hm, actually I just noticed that I get a failure here too -- must have missed something
16:15.16brlcadhah, looks like I didn't commit gcv.h
16:25.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32957 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (Makefile.am gcv.h): dumb me. add the frelling gcv.h interface header and unbreak the build
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16:39.05*** join/#brlcad tony-h (n=zolcos@aeheathe.resnet.mtu.edu)
17:09.05tony-hI have a question about the database format--
17:09.46tony-hFor the acoustic analysis project, I need a way to specify where the speakers are. I can model them, but how do I attach information like "this is speaker model xxxx and uses the dispersion info #5"
17:17.43claymoreyou could consider using the attr command:
17:18.31claymorehttp://brlcad.org/wiki/MGED_CMD_attr
17:18.41claymorethat might get you what you need.
17:37.16tony-hCool, sounds like it will make things easier than expected. But is there a good way to inspect all the regions with a particular attribute without combing the entire database?
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19:08.21starseekeryou can find all such regions with the search command, if you're using svn
19:19.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32958 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/man.tcl: upgrade the doc viewer to list available man pages on the side. For now this will only trigger via the man command, but next step is to point the menu to this functionality.
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20:59.41brlcadtony-h: if you already have a process that works within mged (or can figure one out), it's easy enough to convert those steps into C code too
21:00.14brlcadbut yeah, attr and search  (and ged_attr() and ged_search() respectively) will probably be your friend, else other routines in librt
21:01.11narothHi everyone,  I'm working on finding a way to get the surface area and volume of a room modeled in BRLCAD. I was told a that these sort of calculations might be best performed if the model was converted to a mesh type of format as opposed to BRLCAD's constructive solid geometry. Any suggestions on how to do this?
21:01.48brlcadnaroth: ew
21:02.14narothhehe
21:02.19brlcadI wouldn't go about it that way only because conversion to polygonal from implicit csg is np complete and non-robust
21:02.37brlcadyou can do it, facetize command or any one of the dozen or so exporters that do it
21:02.48narothhmm ok
21:03.08brlcadbut it'd be a lot simpler (and probably faster) to shoot a grid of rays to sample the volume
21:03.31brlcadrtweight already does this for volume/mass computations (src/rt/viewweight.c)
21:04.01narothok, any ideas on how to get surface area of the inside of a room?
21:04.02brlcadas does g_qa using a better adaptive refinement method (src/gtools/g_qa.c)
21:05.58brlcadyou could subtract the room from an encompassing "air region" (using just one boolean) depending on the shape of the room and it'll automatically take care of everything in the room allowing something like rtweight to compute the volume with ease
21:06.51brlcadif the room is odd-shaped, but still encloses space, you could perform some sort of in/out parity check to find the segments that are "inside"
21:08.02naroththen those segments would represent corners in the room right?
21:08.11brlcador if you want to get really fancy, you could perform an ant-walker propagation step that starts someone in the known air volume and adaptively fills the space with geometry (testing for overlaps as it goes along)
21:08.39brlcadno, the segments would *be* the inner volume
21:10.15narothalright
21:11.24narothI'll see what I can do with these ideas then, thanks a lot
21:11.40brlcadpicture shooting a ray through the center of the room where H and X are where it goes through wall and reports the wall segments  out ----> wall_enter --> wall_exit ------> wall2_enter --> wall2_exit ----> inf
21:12.21brlcadthe distance from wall_exit to wall2_enter would be your "interior" sampled segment .. add that up with all of the other interior segments and you'd have your volume (within some sampled cell size tolerance)
21:13.08brlcadso long as you have at least two walls you go through and can start/end "outside" the room
21:14.09brlcadflood fill would be a little harder and time intensive (due to overlap testing), but probably more robust to implement (parity is a bitch with degenerate geometry)
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21:36.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32959 10/brlcad/trunk/ (8 files in 3 dirs): Both the menu and the command line now call mged/man.tcl.
22:12.20louipc<PROTECTED>
22:24.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32960 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/Makefile.am: Ooops - don't need man_dialog in here any more.
22:40.41starseekerstares at the mged man page with some amusement. I'd say rewriting is in order here...
22:41.09starseekerVector General 3300 probably isn't a selling point feature any more...
22:49.37starseekerheh - neither the Getting Started blurb nor the man page match the mged -h report on available options
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081015

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081015

00:04.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32961 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am mged.xml): Add first stab at an MGED man page that is a tad more current - needs some more work.
00:07.18louipcstarseeker: some funky line wrapping you've got there :D
00:07.49starseekermm?
00:08.00starseekeryou mean in the xml?
00:08.04louipcyea
00:08.30starseekerDoesn't  look too bad here - what's it look like on your end?
00:09.44starseekerwhat really counts is how it looks in output :-)
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00:10.44louipchttp://louipc.yi.org/images/funky-wrapping.png
00:12.02louipcwell my term is at 79 cols is why hah
00:13.20starseekerAh
00:13.31starseekeryea, I'm being a bit careless about that
00:13.36starseekerfeel free to correct it :-)
00:14.30louipcI'd feel so lame doing that since you're actually doing the real work and stuff haha
00:14.40louipcyour rules
00:26.14starseekerlouipc:  Nah, go for it
00:26.44starseekerreally shouldn't be doing doc stuff, but his new doc display system doesn't reach full potential until it has lots of material to work with
00:28.38starseekerlots of instant gratification, as it were :-)
00:28.57louipchey man it's good work
00:29.24starseekerlouipc:  Does the new tkhtml3 widget work for you?
00:29.31louipchaven't tried it yet
00:29.58starseekerah.  At the moment, if you type "man search" in a recent svn build you should get it
00:30.22louipcthat works in classic mode too?
00:30.31starseekerno, needs Tcl/Tk
00:30.52louipcaw
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01:19.41brlcadlooks like -h is help and that's not in the man page either .. :)
01:20.20brlcadthat's where I'd really like to have the command spreadsheet complete to datamine what the predominant args in use are for various types of commands
01:20.55brlcadwould help to know what options would be best to be globally consistent (like -? or -h on any command always giving usage)
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02:42.46yukonbobhello, cadheads
03:26.56starseekerhowdy bob
03:29.54starseekerbrlcad:  Is the other html stuff actually being used anywhere?  If so, is it something we can swap out with tkhtml3?
03:36.18starseekerHmm.  Wonder where the right place to store documentationon shift grips is - an article?
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07:55.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32962 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs):
07:55.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: fixed the libgcv integration into the MS Windows Dll build
07:55.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: added some libged file for consistency
10:34.01brlcadstarseeker: "the other html stuff"?
10:40.51brlcadg'morning d_rossberg
10:41.44d_rossbergmoin moin brlcad
10:43.30claymorebegins the morning caffination cycle.
10:44.03clock_CIA-4: ;-)
10:44.07clock_claymore: ;-)
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12:21.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32964 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Added the clone command to libged.
12:23.06mafmhallo
12:31.09claymorehai!
12:32.09brlcadhowdy mafm
12:35.58CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32965 10/brlcad/trunk/src/README: add libgcv
12:57.32mafmhey, my module still compiles fine!
13:04.58starseekerregains consciousness
13:05.18starseekerdingnabbit, I want brlcad's limitless endurance
13:07.55mafmwould be OK with half or one quarter of brlcad's endurance
13:08.04mafminfinite/4 is not bad
14:16.58brlcadmafm: heh, graet ;)
14:17.12brlcadstarseeker: not limitless, I slept some last night :(
14:30.07*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
14:39.02starseekerbrlcad:  are my commit privs messed up somehow at sourceforge?
14:39.28starseekerServer sent unexpected return value (403 Forbidden) in response to MKACTIVITY request
14:39.40brlcadsounds like a server hiccup
14:41.21starseekergrowl
14:43.28starseekerdammit, even with a fresh checkout
14:43.31starseekerBAD timing
14:43.36starseekerhow do I fix it?
14:44.14brlcadtime
14:51.01``Eriktry scaring it or making it drink water
14:51.57``Erikecho "I'm going to install java on you" | telnet svn.sf.net
14:57.08mafmlol
14:57.36starseekerCan anyone else commit?
14:58.09starseekerneeds to go in but would prefer to have his changes committed first
14:58.59``ErikI cannot
14:59.20brlcadnor I
14:59.39starseekerOK, at least it wasn't just me offending the sourceforge gods
15:00.12starseekerblames this on the cat
15:01.08brlcada new svn was deployed yesterday, maybe some fallout today that needed addressing
15:01.15starseekerah
15:01.43brlcadnot the only project too, so they know about it: https://sourceforge.net/tracker2/?group_id=1&atid=200001
15:03.55brlcadheh
15:04.05starseekergot in first, but not by much ;-)
15:04.17brlcadwondered what that flash was
15:04.43starseekerpredicts this issue will rapidly get a lot more comments
15:04.59brlcadheh, travis saw it
15:05.03brlcadlikes the live updates
15:05.09starseekerthis is cool
15:05.35*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5B14EE89.dip.t-dialin.net)
15:05.44brlcadnice way to reduce load, no need to refresh
15:06.46starseekerHeh - "Issues of this nature will typically be reviewed again by
15:06.48starseekerthe assigned member of the SourceForge.net team within 3 business days"
15:07.28brlcadi think it's more of an "alright already, I see it" :)
15:08.00starseekerOh, I know - I just like the mental image of what would happen if they did wait that long
15:08.36brlcadI think you were probably one of the first
15:08.58brlcadthe earliest postings are all about 10 minutes after you first started having the problem
15:09.15starseekerTjat
15:09.22starseekerthat's what I get for doing a compile test
15:09.53brlcadah, actually looks like matplotlib beat you by 2 minutes
15:10.35starseekeryou mean 20 minutes?
15:11.16brlcadno
15:11.29brlcadthey reported at 14:40, you commented here at 14:42
15:12.27starseekerAh :-)
15:12.30starseekerhehe
15:12.56starseekerhow come I never have this kind of luck with lottery tickets?
15:14.46starseekergoes to make some food...
15:15.26brlcadwhat, you want to be two minutes late to buying a winning lottery ticket?
15:15.42brlcadI'd rather not play with that level of frustration :)
15:18.50brlcadsets up a notification
15:19.19claymoreerik:  you get my email?
15:26.50brlcadoff to korean now if you're close
15:39.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32966 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: pnts have vectors and colors now, just have to make them work
15:57.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32967 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/mged/ (mged.tcl openw.tcl): Trim back the help menu a bit
16:04.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32968 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/ (254 files in 15 dirs):
16:04.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: Take first stab at updating OpenNURBS to 4.0. Have attempted to merge in all
16:04.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: BRL-CAD specific changes. Builds on gentoo in this form, although for some
16:04.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: reason I needed to include assert.h in opennurbs_curve.h and make a couple other
16:04.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: tweaks.
16:47.42brlcad*burps*
16:47.44*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
16:58.34starseekerbrlcad:  Does that integration of opennurbs look OK?
17:00.27brlcad<PROTECTED>
17:00.42brlcadif it works, then it looks great ;)
17:01.09brlcadtry running breplicator and raytracing the db
17:02.28*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-77-139.dclient.hispeed.ch)
17:14.16starseekererm.  Lots of WTF??? output
17:16.24starseekerI'm guessing that's not right
17:16.25starseekercrud
17:16.55starseekerscreen xy: 251,348
17:17.10brlcadmaybe maybe not.. it wasn't exactly flawless
17:17.18brlcadlemme make sure it works
17:18.17brlcadhm, yeah .. no .. it should work just fine :)
17:18.29brlcadmakes a cube, even renders clean
17:18.32starseekerding nabbit
17:19.11starseekerlet me get in there and I'll try to figure out what's messed up - worst comes to worst I can revert
17:19.52starseekercrap - 5 hours+ potentially down the drain
17:19.54brlcadI ran: ./breplicator && mged -c breplicator.g l brep && rt -F/dev/X breplicator.g brep
17:20.21brlcadshould dump a bunch of face info (twice) and render a cube
17:20.37brlcadwith no warnings/errors during render
17:21.00brlcadit might not be your fault if they actually changed something, but chances are some patch needed
17:23.55starseekerit dumps info alright, but it raytraced this:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/breplicator_failure.png
17:24.24starseekerHere's the .g file:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/breplicator.g
17:25.45brlcadrenders fine so it's not the structure
17:25.55brlcadjust the raytrace routines (which are related to the opennurbs mods)
17:26.37starseekersigh.  OK.  I'm heading in - I'll start digging once I get there.  Confound it...
17:27.02starseekerhad hoped to surprise everyone with a working upgrade, but nooooo...
17:32.21brlcadheh
17:32.31brlcadwell, it *is* surprising ;)
17:32.53starseekeryeah, but now it's surprise breakage
17:33.30starseekerstill, good excuse to figure out debugging cpp/c interactions
17:35.01starseekeris a bit taken aback by just how much code is in opennurbs
17:35.47brlcadhm?
17:35.52brlcadit's a pretty small library
17:36.27brlcadsorta, i mean it's on par with librt line-wise
17:36.36brlcadbut it's c++, which is more verbose line-wise
17:37.01starseekerAh
17:51.56mafmon the other hand, with new "auto" keyword, LoC counts for C++ files will drop down by 40% or so :þ
18:18.44brlcadhehe, probably
18:27.28brlcadstarseeker: NEWS updates ..
18:37.43mafmI think that it would be the most appreciated feature of new C++ standard
18:37.49mafmat least mine it would be!
18:54.03mafmheading off, 'night!
19:08.49brlcadyeah, auto will be great
19:12.58louipcuh oh build error with latest SVN and openNURBS http://pastebin.com/mb4f8a7
19:29.11starseekerlouipc:  Can you paste it to the bzflag pastebin?  I can't get to that one
19:29.59starseekerbrlcad: oops, right
19:34.10starseekerlouipc:  Is it opennurbs_box.h?
19:35.14starseekermust have missed an add
19:40.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32969 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/ (opennurbs_box.cpp opennurbs_box.h opennurbs_crashtest.h): Bad developer, need to add files when they're new...
19:46.50brlcad~bzpaste
19:48.33brlcad!listkeys bzp
19:48.39brlcader... *slap*
19:48.46brlcad~listkeys bzp
19:48.54brlcad~bzpastebin
19:48.55ibotrumour has it, bzpastebin is http://pastebin.bzflag.bz or a place to put large chunks of text so as not to flood a channel
19:49.10starseekerbrlcad: thanks :-)
19:49.35starseekerI'm guessing the missing files were the problem - they caused a failure for me too
19:52.07starseekerjeez - who needs roller coasters when you have the stock market?
19:52.57brlcadoh, dip?
19:53.07brlcadlooks
19:53.38starseekerjust a tad
19:54.21brlcadwoot, outstanding
19:54.34brlcadbuys
19:55.41starseekerfeels like the stock market needs mental help - it's bipolar
19:58.49brlcadhah, this is awesome...
19:58.57brlcadmoves more funds into his trading account
20:03.26brlcadtaps foot impatiently waiting for account to reflect the change
20:03.34brlcadwoot!
20:09.03starseekeralright, how can hits.size get a value of 3??
20:09.06PrezKennedywho do you use brlcad ?
20:09.50PrezKennedyhahaha and they *thought* the worst was over
20:09.52PrezKennedymorons...
20:10.41starseekeris forced to conclude the majority of market players have no clue what's going on
20:18.46louipcstarseeker: yep
20:20.33*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5B14EE89.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:21.14brlcadPrezKennedy: etrade
20:23.19louipcwhy buy now when you can buy later for pennies!
20:23.26louipcmuhahah
20:25.08brlcad:)
20:25.16brlcadwill buy all the way down
20:26.00brlcadit'll eventually go back up, especially on a local panic minima like it is now
20:38.17starseekerbuilds 7.12.6 to have something to compare
20:48.13PrezKennedyi need to buy in
21:01.47louipcI'd say invest in a real business rather than magical numbers in a computer ;)
21:04.14PrezKennedya real business? like what?
21:04.35brlcadthinks you should invest your money in the Bank of Sean
21:04.59PrezKennedysounds sketchy
21:05.20brlcadit is, almost guaranteed 0% return on investment
21:05.32archivistcan archive your moneyz
21:05.44PrezKennedyim waiting for the next fake announcement that jobs is having a heart attack
21:05.46brlcadbut there are perks, potato chips, and nice pat on the back
21:05.47PrezKennedythen ill buy into apple
21:10.26louipcPrezKennedy: like a hot dog stand or something
21:57.53PrezKennedywow... $50 and i could buyout Ford...
21:59.33*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
22:01.05*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
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23:28.05louipcstarseeker: I recall you said something before about sending a patch upstream for tkhtml3. What was that one about? I'm currently looking at the config scripts to disable the build since I already have tkhtml3
23:29.01starseekerloouipc:  Er, don't need to do that
23:29.09starseekerfigured out how to use their build
23:29.17louipcok cool
23:29.30starseekerDo need to make a test for whether tkhtml3 is already present inside an already present tcl/tk
23:29.48louipchmm
23:30.08louipcah were you working on a config option?
23:30.11starseekerisn't quite up on autoconf testing procedures yet - probably some sort of routine to look at the results of package require Tkhtml 3.0
23:30.18starseekerlouipc:  not right now
23:30.22starseekergo for it if you like
23:30.36louipcyeah I just need to do the test
23:30.52starseekerdoes happy dance that the openNURBS updates are OK after all
23:33.10louipchttp://louipc.yi.org/brlcad/tkhtml-build.patch
23:33.25louipcwell that's what I put so far...
23:33.34louipcit won't work because I didn't do the test
23:34.06starseekerI can't get to louipc.yi.org :-(
23:34.11louipcerp
23:34.40louipchttp://louipc.dontexist.org/brlcad/tkhtml-build.patch
23:35.44starseekercan't find that one either
23:35.48starseekerweird
23:35.58starseeker~bzpastebin
23:35.59ibotmethinks bzpastebin is http://pastebin.bzflag.bz or a place to put large chunks of text so as not to flood a channel
23:36.04starseekermight try that
23:37.05louipchttp://omploader.org/vdHU5/tkhtml-build.patch
23:37.19louipcoh are you restricted to that domain or something?
23:37.49starseekerlast one worked
23:38.22``ErikI AM the shogun of harlem!
23:38.57``Erikhttp://palinaspresident.com
23:39.37louipcsweet
23:39.41starseekerlouipc:  We aren't looking for an la file in this case
23:40.19starseekerThere's probably some "standard" way to check for packages at the autoconf level
23:41.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32970 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS TODO): Note cleanup on MGED's Help menu and the integration of the latest release of openNURBS (4.0) into the BRL-CAD source tree. No longer a TODO item.
23:41.52louipcthe test for TNT is interesting. It seems to compile and run a little program imbedded in the config script
23:45.26starseekerI think that's the "right" way
23:52.22``Eriksucks that garth marenghi's darkplace is only available as a region 2 dvd :(
23:52.59starseeker``Erik: I figured you'd have a BSD box set up with mythtv or some such to be able to watch anything
23:53.53starseekeris it wrong to be amused by the wild swinging of the stock market?
23:54.17``Eriknah, haven't built a mythtv box
23:54.37``Eriklooks like most of the episodes are on googles video site O.o
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081016

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081016

00:00.08starseekerbrlcad:  Yep, looks like it does do in-memory:  http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=InMemoryDatabase
00:02.49louipcI'm amused any chance I get to laugh at the bankers
00:02.57louipcbecause usually they're laughing at me
00:09.30``Erik<PROTECTED>
00:10.24louipcyeah when they're taking your money
00:14.06*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet2-46-90.dorm.utexas.edu)
01:47.41brlcadstarseeker: I believe what we already had was 4.0 too .. maybe check for a patch number or use the protocol number (it's in one of the header files)
02:24.22``Erikcrap, my chest is hurting from laughing at this southpark
03:35.36*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
05:37.57starseekerbrlcad:  hmm.  I'll see if I can dig up the protocol number
05:49.11starseekerchecks diffs on .h files and so far turns up alot of copyright date updates...
05:51.12brlcad200707189
05:51.30brlcadi.e. 4.0.2007.0718
05:52.22brlcad(opennurbs_version.h)
05:52.51starseekerah, dingnabbit
05:52.53starseekerthanks
05:53.07brlcadno matter, I had the number wrong anyways
05:53.27starseekerupdates news file again...
06:05.51starseekerWell, unless we want a zillion diffs with just /* $Header$ */ in them I'd better trim this diff down a bit
06:18.36brlcadthere was an option with cvs to not include cvs vars
06:18.41brlcader, rcs vars
06:19.46starseekerI think I've got the major ones isolated
06:20.06starseekercouple ws related ones that needed to come out too
06:26.39starseekerprods CIA
06:33.00brlcadputs on a pot
06:50.43brlcadstarseeker: that number wasn't right :)
06:50.49brlcad01:56 <@brlcad> no matter, I had the number wrong anyways
06:57.44*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
07:01.54*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:59.07*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
08:25.12brlcadsaws off the extra r on claymorer
08:28.25*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
08:53.49claymoreTired fingers don't type correctly :P
08:53.56claymoreyawns.
08:54.19claymoreBrlcad:  slept since I last saw you?
09:00.08brlcadwhy bother?
09:01.18claymoreJust thought the whole 'body need sleep or you'll die' thing....nevermind, doesn't apply to coding machines eh? ;)
09:03.24brlcadit's a myth
09:04.19claymoreHave you been able to break away and check out that 1.6 acre plot during the daylight yet?
09:04.24clock_well check wikipedia they have an answer to almost anything :)
09:05.29claymoresure, Wikipedia has 'an answer' to everything, but that doesn't make it 'the answer' or anywhere near correct!
09:06.58brlcadnope
09:07.36clock_I had 8.5 hours of sleep and I had concerns if I amt destroying my body by going to sleep at 23.00 and not 22.00
09:07.58claymorebrlcad:  Hitting the road enroute to work.  Need somethin drom Dunkin?
09:09.59archivistrecommends Dunkin Donuts I haz tasted them
09:11.09AFK-claymore...nothin? okie.
09:11.15AFK-claymoreCyas
09:36.24brlcadyou get up insane early AFK-claymore
11:14.52*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
12:42.27claymorehai mafm!
12:54.00mafmhi
13:04.09``Erikclaymore: brlcad's mantra seems to be "there'll be plenty of time to sleep when you're dead", mebbe he's lookin' to flare out and sleep soon O.o :D
13:04.49claymoreI just want to make sure I have minimum safe distance when he does flare out ;)
13:04.54``Erikcandle that burns twice as bright burns half as long?
13:05.02claymoreErik:  You get my email?
13:05.12``Erikuhmmmm, haven't looked yet
13:05.21claymoreWork email.
13:05.26``Erikgetting the important stuff done first, y'know, reading irc backlog...
13:05.30claymorelol
13:05.44claymoreits just a software approval.
13:06.31Donuts``Erik: is regular sleep necessary to maintain health?
13:07.30``ErikI'd always heard so, karel... I've also heard that if you've been awake for 18 hours, you function as if at the legal driving limit for intoxication, and 24 hours is far far worse
13:08.07``Erikthere was a french study that claimed you operated a lot better taking two 3-hour naps in a 24 hour period than single full 8 hour
13:08.15``Erikin like the 80's I think
13:08.26Donutslol
13:08.37``Erikbut it was french, so may not apply to humans
13:08.41``ErikO:-)
13:08.44DonutsI never function well no matter what naps I take
13:08.53DonutsI either sleep too little and then I am tired from sleeping too little
13:09.05DonutsOr sleep enough but then my nose blocks and I cannot sleep well anyway
13:09.11``Eriklay off the opiates and alcohol? :D
13:09.18DonutsI do NOTHING!
13:09.24DonutsNo opiates alcohols drugs nothin
13:09.59Donutshow old is brlcad?
13:10.04DonutsMaybe he still can make into the Club 27
13:10.08archivistI miss nights and just nap if needed, no real problem
13:10.10claymoreYeah, there are PLENTY of things that can help you sleep better ;)
13:10.28Donutsfact is I usually dinner just before falling into the bed
13:10.28claymoreRumor has it BRLCAD is 157 years old.... no one knows for sure though.
13:10.43Donutswhich is supposed to make crappy sleep
13:10.52DonutsHe could ground the CLub 157
13:11.07DonutsPeople who dies 157 years old from too much alcohol drugs
13:12.41claymoreEver seen the Matrix?  brlcad makes NEO look like a newb.  Little known fact:  the Matrix uses BRL-CAD libraries.
13:12.56Donutsclaymore: oh really?
13:13.01DonutsWhat do they use it for?
13:13.18Donutsuses not only BRL-CAD libraries but the whole BRL-CAD, will he get more famous than the Matrix?
13:13.47claymorewell see, the problem is that is IS not BRL-CAD.....
13:13.58claymorewow, i crapped that on epretty bad.
13:14.02``Erik<neo> duuuude! totally excellent! let's totally go, bill... erm, I mean, morpheus!
13:14.17claymorewell see, the probem is that there is NO brl-cad.
13:14.51Donutsbil kaulitz?
13:14.54claymoreJust once, i wanted Neo to look at Morpheus and say, "Rufus?  Is that you?"
13:15.05DonutsWhos Rufus? :)
13:15.14DonutsI think I heard that name. isn't he homeless?
13:15.20``Erikcharacter from 'bill and ted's excellent adventure'
13:15.27``Erikplayed by carlin iirc
13:15.30claymoreHe drives a telephone booth.
13:15.35Donutslol
13:15.40Donutssounds like on hard drugs
13:16.25``Erikit was the 80's, all of hollywood had the healthy look of freshly powdered noses O.o
13:16.45Donutspowedered from inside?
13:16.55claymoreStrange things are afoot at the 7-11.
13:16.57Donutsfrom THE inside, my f. english
13:17.16``Erikno, karel, from the lines cut onto the mirror :D
13:19.51Donutsoh its raining like hell here
13:20.59claymoreNever been, so I really don't know how bad it rains in hell...
13:21.34``Erik<-- has been told that it's hot and dry there, convinced it's a synonym for arizona
13:23.57``Eriksees no email from claymore
13:24.04claymoreSome even say that the Rockies and the Sierra Nevada's were once one range... then hell erupted out and split them.  Once the hole was resealed, Arizona, Nevada and Utard remained....
13:24.47claymoreerik:  Sent wednesday at 0815
13:25.05claymore... I think there was a Buffy episode about that ;)
13:25.38``Erikhum, the last email I got was monday, something musta busted
13:25.48claymoreI will resend.
13:26.00``Erikwell, hold up
13:26.18``Eriklet me try reconnecting to the server, I surspect my uplink to that pile just went fruity
13:26.37``ErikI bet my password there expired or something
13:28.54claymoreresent
13:28.58claymoreyou at work or home?
13:29.25``Erikyeah, password was expired, and at the office
13:30.22claymorestupid stupid outlook....
13:30.28claymoreshakes head.
13:31.18``Erikentourage, actually. For some reason, it doesn't bother tell you why it failed to connect, where outlook seems almost useful in popping up the 'please change it' dialog O.o
13:32.25claymorepoints at the outlook servers. Phear.....
13:33.20``Erikexchange
13:34.01``Erikis CIA-4 busted, or just being ... special?
13:34.28claymoreCall it what you will, guano is still poop.
14:00.39*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
14:07.41PrezKennedyhttp://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/10/14/microsoft-announces-1.html
14:17.12claymorelol, thats good stuff Prez.
14:18.33``Eriksecure edition, nice
14:26.53claymoreGotta atdmit, though, at first glance, i was hoping the secure edition had something to do with the x-files.  kinda ruined it for me when I realized it was probably a Mac Fanboi that made the graphic :/
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14:41.39starseekerbrlcad:  erm?  It was in opennurbs_version.h:  200707180
14:45.16starseeker's brain doesn't seem to be in working order atm anyway...
14:51.17``Erikneato, breakage in the opennurbs array shtuff now
14:55.41starseeker``Erik:  eh?
14:56.08starseekeras a result of the upgrade?  The breplicator example wasn't working in 7.12.6 either
15:14.13``Erikhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d5ed5e2df
15:39.10starseekererm
15:39.21starseekerIs that on BSD?
15:45.35starseeker``Erik does including #include "opennurbs_array.h" in opennurbs_array_defs.h help any?
15:45.45starseekerlooks like previous revision had that
15:47.20starseekergoes to car fixer people...
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17:57.46cad45hello
17:58.11claymorehai!
17:58.31cad45is this the brlcad developers
17:58.48louipcyep there are a few here
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17:59.50cad45we are looking to find more information on how the models are stored in brlcad
18:00.11cad45for the purpose of finding surface area and volume of the model
18:01.36louipchmm I think that was being discussed not long ago, but I couldn't comprehend any of it haha
18:02.28claymoreSurface area and volumes can be calculated via Raytrace interrogation of any given target.
18:02.30``Erikvolume can be estimated using rtweight, rtarea can give you "exposed" surface area
18:02.56claymoreah, you are too slow grasshoppa
18:26.36mafmgoing home, take care
18:33.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r32977 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_array_defs.h: fix breakage on *nix/opteron, calling non-msvc compilers lame while not grokking pointer casting ftl. s/unsigned int/size_t/
18:51.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32978 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/all_sf.xml: add tweaks to all_sf man page from Janine.
19:06.03``ErikQ: What's a 'special variable'?
19:06.03``ErikA: Some variables have values that must be accessed very quickly. They are stored in memory that is connected to the CPU by a high speed datapath called 'the short bus'. Special variables ride the short bus.
19:16.21cad45where can I find documentation on rtarea and rtweight?
19:16.31``Erikthey both have man pages
19:16.45cad45thank you
19:21.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32979 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am anim_cascade.xml): add anim_cascade manual - worked on by Janine and Cliff
19:33.39claymoretimmmmah!
19:33.53starseeker?
19:49.04``ErikCRIPPLE FIGHT!
19:55.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32980 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am anim_fly.xml anim_hardtrack.xml): add anim_fly and anim_hardtrack manuals - worked on by Janine and Cliff
20:07.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32981 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am anim_keyread.xml): add anim_keyread manual - worked on by Janine and Cliff
20:45.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32982 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am rtedge.xml): add rtedge manual - worked on by Janine and Cliff
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21:37.20punkrockgirlhi
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23:06.42louipcstarseeker: brlcad I don't really know enough to do the test for tkhtml3 but I got it to not build tkhtml3 with the --disable-tkhtml3 ... Is that OK to commit? http://omploader.org/vdHo4/tkhtml-build.patch
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081017

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081017

00:57.18``Erikneeds to extract/expunge/unfuck the gnu-isms of the tkhtml3 build crap :(
01:24.53brlcadlouipc: not getting the gist at the moment, so I've got no problems
01:25.00brlcadso either commit or talk it out with starseeker
01:25.04brlcador ``Erik
01:25.16brlcador someone else who's not about to pass out :)
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01:37.11``Erikheh, bourbon and lack of sleep, brlcad?
01:38.38``Erikloui, why do you have both ${TKHTML3DIR} and tkhtml3 in SUBDIRS of src/other/Makefile.am ?
01:40.49``Erikoh, n/m, removing it
01:41.20``Erikis there any way to tell configure where tkhtml3 is installed on the system? I don't see anything to do that other than overloading CPPFLAGS and LDFLAGS
01:45.40``ErikI say commit it, it looks good to me
01:47.09``Erikgrouses about svn's lack of a -y flag on the diff command
02:33.55Ralithwhat would that do?
02:41.13louipcside by side diff
03:11.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03louipc * r32983 10/brlcad/trunk/ (INSTALL configure.ac src/other/Makefile.am): Add --enable-tkhtml3-build configure option.
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08:12.21brlcadyawns refreshed
08:12.39brlcad``Erik: scotch, not bourbon
08:46.08pooliobrlcad: mornin?
08:56.03brlcadhowdy poolio
08:56.10brlcadyep, mornin it be
08:56.37brlcadmade it home alive after being up for 80 hours
08:58.59pooliobrlcad: geez. go to sleep!
08:59.09clock_lol
08:59.19clock_brlcad: you should get a Guinness Book record for that
09:17.40brlcadpoolio: I did, hence "refreshed" :)
09:18.57brlcadclock_: nah, the world record was something like 276 hours before they banned it as a category
09:22.43poolioWas that the one done by those students?
09:23.01pooliobrlcad: heh, your sleeping schedule is more bizarre than a college student's :P
09:23.06brlcadhm, dunno
09:23.27brlcad"finished" a project .. wasn't going to leave until it was done
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13:39.48PrezKennedybrlcad, you were up for 80 hours? you crazy!
13:40.05PrezKennedydid you take a powernap then start again?
13:50.26``Erikwhen he stops coding, we get the box out and put 4KV across his nipples, he pops right back up, says "wow, what a party!" and starts coding again O.o
13:50.41``Erikhe's actually a robot, just needs his batteries recharged once in a while O.o
14:10.45clock_recharges ``Erik's batteries with his >500V D.C. electric bicycle
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16:25.26brlcadPrezKennedy: it's good fun, you should try it!
16:25.45brlcadnot the driving afterwards part, but the staying up fun part :)
16:27.22*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
16:27.35mafmhi
16:27.55mafmnetwork outages FTW
16:27.56brlcadhowdy mafm
16:27.59brlcadque tal?
16:28.18mafmnot bad except for the cold/flu
16:28.20mafm:)
16:28.34brlcadah, good time to code then :)
16:29.12mafmhmm, bzflag in debian testing
16:29.35mafmdo you like to code with fever? :D
16:30.16brlcadI got a fever, and the only prescription ...
16:30.24brlcadIS MORE COWBELL!
16:30.45mafmmisses the reference :D
16:31.01brlcadhttp://www.dailymotion.com/video/xnfyp_cowbell_fun
16:31.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32984 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ps.c: Enable clipping.
16:32.23mafmhmm, no flash at the moment :)
16:32.34brlcadahh
16:32.37mafmone technical question that I thought about yesterday
16:32.40brlcadit's an old SNL skit
16:33.08mafmwould be good to destroy the singletons when exiting the program?
16:33.33brlcadI generally prefer controlled/intentional shutdown
16:33.50brlcadbut technically it's a wash
16:34.20brlcadif you're using the singleton that was already there, it'll clean up after itself automatically
16:34.35brlcad(but I'd still usually do it manually/intentionally)
16:35.03mafmhmm, well, a singleton wouldn't activate the destructor of the instance
16:35.12mafmunless you somehow tell it to do it
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16:35.32brlcadwhich it does :)
16:35.57brlcadlooks at which mafm is using
16:36.50brlcadah, you manually made it one ..
16:36.53brlcadyeah, that's not going anywhere
16:37.04mafmmanually made what?
16:37.10brlcadbut that probably won't/shouldn't stay written that way either
16:37.46brlcadinclude/Utility/Singleton.h
16:37.56brlcadthere's a singleton implementation already that takes care of a lot of issues
16:38.10brlcadissues that aren't addressed by just stashing a static
16:38.51brlcadit's a bit beefier than what is used for BZ.. not sure (in hindsight) that it needs to keep the flexibility it has vs simplicity of interface
16:41.23mafmI see
16:41.26mafmhmm
16:41.33mafmso should I use that one?
16:42.03brlcadit reduces code complexity quite a bit if all singletons just inherit from one Singleton template :)
16:43.13brlcadI think that's one of the most reused pieces of code I've ever written
16:44.07mafmah, so it's already known to work and all that?
16:44.17brlcadgreat return, the only problem I could never sort out a good solution for was cross-library instantiation
16:44.24brlcadoh yeah, it works great
16:44.43brlcadit's in use in at least a half-dozen projects
16:45.02brlcadoutside of brl-cad
16:45.29mafmI thought that it was made as a "template" for that module or something
16:45.48PrezKennedybrlcad, i gotta have more cowbell!
16:46.03brlcadbaby
16:47.41mafmhuh
16:48.08mafmbut for that I have to somehow install the code of that module in the system
16:48.11mafmis that part ready?
16:48.19brlcadmafm: the utility library?
16:48.28brlcadyeah, it was already working
16:48.52mafmI mean, the compilation && instalation
16:49.20brlcadwell technically, it's a template class
16:49.22mafmgonna test it
16:49.27brlcadso you can just use it without libUtility
16:49.57brlcadyou just inherit from Singleton<yourclass>, add a friend (to yourself), and initialize the singleton in a compilation unit
16:50.02``Erik*readreadread* it depends on what kinda resources the singleton holds.. closing file decriptors (to files, sockets, etc) is fairly important
16:50.10brlcadthree lines and you're done
16:50.45``Erikit USED to be that some os's didn't free all of a programs memory if it exited without cleaning itself up, leading to a slow leak and requiring periodic reboots
16:50.59brlcad``Erik: the singleton implementation I have will call the destructor so as long as it is written okay, it'll clean up
16:51.17``Erikstill have to have a proper destructor written :)
16:51.21brlcadyep
16:51.56brlcadand even with that, I'd still perfer manual over atexit destruction so it's obvious/controlled/ordered
16:52.36mafmit's not a problem of having files etc (at the moment)
16:52.51mafmbut just so in example valgrind doesn't report them as "noise"
16:52.52``Erikyeh, I prefer a full stack unwind so the final code before _exit() is a return from main
16:53.39``Erikhehhe "When your hammer is C++, everything begins to look like a thumb.
16:53.41``Erik"
16:54.07``Erik"Being really good at C++ is like being really good at using rocks to sharpen sticks."
16:54.10mafm``Erik: comment from slashdot?
16:54.22``Eriknah, an old ITS fortune file
16:54.54mafmit appeared in slashdot in an interview to Stroustrup (spelling)
16:55.05``Erikwhich one, mafm?
16:55.27mafmbrlcad: the compiler whines when including your file
16:55.37``Erikthe hammer/thumb one is attributed to Steve Hoflich, the other is Thant Tessman
16:55.37mafmI think that for using ThreadingModel name
16:55.38brlcadmafm: oh?
16:56.31brlcadalright, simplifying
16:56.35mafm``Erik: http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=653033&cid=24690821
16:56.37``Erikbrlcad, ya missed out on gourmet bowling alley food today O.o
16:56.51mafmnotices that his notion of recent extends to 2 months ago
16:57.06PrezKennedymmmm gourmet bowling alley food
16:57.09PrezKennedywhich bowling alley?
16:57.20brlcadbefore long, recent will be a couple years ago
16:57.26``Erik"In C++ it's harder to shoot yourself in the foot, but when you do, you blow off your whole leg."  Bjarne Stroustrup.
16:57.33``Erikprez: the post one
16:57.43PrezKennedyah only been there a couple times
16:57.48mafmit's because I had lots of articles to read from slashdot due to lack of time
16:59.41mafmbrlcad: Singleton inherits from ThreadingModel, which doesn't exist as class
16:59.58brlcadmafm: i'm replacing it now
17:00.28mafmso it was not working after all :þ
17:00.51brlcadmafm: it is
17:00.57brlcadThreadingModel is a template parameter
17:01.03brlcaddefault is SingleThreaded
17:01.08brlcadSingleThreaded is in that file
17:01.14brlcadso the error, if any, is something else
17:01.19brlcadI've used that file
17:01.46brlcadprobably some innocuous type warning with gcc4 that hasn't been fixed in the rt^3 version
17:02.57mafmbrlcad: http://rafb.net/p/2kJT1T63.html
17:05.16brlcadtry that
17:05.55mafmtry... what?
17:06.07brlcadtaps foot impatiently
17:06.41mafmCIA ? :)
17:06.47brlcadyeah
17:08.05brlcadlooks like "lock" may be typedef'd to something via system header on your system given that error
17:08.08brlcadbut doesn't matter
17:08.17brlcadthe simplified version I just commited gets rid of threading support
17:08.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32985 10/rt^3/trunk/include/Utility/Singleton.h:
17:08.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: revert to a version of the singleton template class that is more often used
17:08.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: elsewhere for its simplicity. this version doesn't have threading support nor
17:08.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: support non-new construction, but it does let you make something a singleton
17:08.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: with three lines.
17:08.26mafmah, goody
17:08.26brlcadyay
17:08.58*** join/#brlcad elite01_ (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
17:11.06brlcadthe new header shows how to use it too
17:11.30brlcadstole it back from bz, woot
17:13.07``Erikthat poor singleton header, being passed around like a drunk freshman at a frat party :(
17:13.48mafmlol
17:14.11mafmhmm, it seems to compile :S
17:14.17mafmmost amazing
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17:27.52mafmhmm
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17:28.00mafmOgre headers don't like it very uch
17:28.47brlcadmm, they probablly use the exact same names
17:28.57mafmah, I think that it was the old problem of ged.h definin X, Y and the like
17:29.06mafmdefining*
17:29.11brlcadokay
17:29.32mafmis that still in place or did somebody remove it?
17:29.52brlcadit's still in place
17:30.04brlcadI had a test of a way to work around the problems
17:30.19brlcadbut that machine is in storage atm until I settle
17:34.27mafmhmm
17:34.35mafmis it a complicate fix?
17:34.50brlcadwhat do you mean?
17:35.13brlcadit's not broken, it's naming conflicts
17:36.50mafmhmm
17:37.38mafmwell, but I mean... if it would happen something bad elsewhere for undefining those variables at the end of the same file where they are defined
17:37.41brlcadyeah, that'd break everywhere they're used :)
17:38.24mafmwhat if I undefine them after including ged.h?
17:38.49brlcadthat's the usual work-around
17:39.24brlcadi was looking at a change that would work for both, but don't remember where I left off with that frankly without that machine
17:41.10mafmokish, no problem
17:41.20mafmjust don't want to get stuck with this
17:41.26brlcadyeah, it's fugly
17:44.36mafmwell, it seems to be working now
17:53.24brlcadcheers for a friday ralley as he makes 15%
17:54.36mafmbrlcad: Singleton is not under Utility namespace, is that intended?
17:54.58brlcadit's fine for now
17:55.08brlcadthe per-library namespaces is a win-lose
17:55.46brlcadi.e. if you want to change it, go for it -- but not a huge deal at this point
17:56.14mafmI don't mind much, it was just a reminder/warning for you
17:56.18mafmpokes CIA
18:11.03``ErikCIA won't talk to you, you didn't buy it dinner first
18:15.02brlcadkicks CIA-4
18:15.02CIA-4ow
18:15.29brlcadnot the bots, elsewhere in the system -- probably overloaded or sf is dropping again
18:17.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32987 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Application.cxx: Avoid calling finalize() twice
18:17.18brlcadso it's overloaded
18:17.31mafmit missed the previous one
18:17.42brlcadah, then sf is still dropping :)
18:19.04mafmhmm
18:19.17mafmok, so most leaks seem to be either OGRE or RBGui's fault
18:19.38brlcadthat from a valgrind profile?
18:20.39mafmyup
18:21.01mafmwell, maybe I should delete some of the objects
18:21.10mafmbut when I try to do so it gives segfaults :)
18:21.22``Erikwhich ones come from BRL-CAD? :D
18:22.02mafmyou mean leaks or segfaults?
18:22.06brlcadthat's highly likely then that it's a problem of use, not a problem on their side (other than they could add crash protection maybe)
18:22.19brlcadcould be deletion order
18:22.23``Erikleaks, we should be fairly leak free
18:22.51mafmthere are some of the leak reports with empty stack, the rest are OGRE/RBGui related, as I said
18:23.46mafmbrlcad: posibly, I should look at it more closely :)
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18:25.13tandersonhi
18:25.16brlcadhowdy tanderson
18:26.30tandersonI and some others are interested in packaging brlcad for gentoo linux. One problem that comes up is that brlcad packages dependant libraries inside, which is completely against policies for various reasons. Is there any chance brlcad could use the system libraries?
18:27.27brlcadtanderson: have you read the portage integration thread?
18:27.36tandersonno, where is that?
18:27.44brlcadahh...then you *really* should :)
18:27.49brlcadon the tracker
18:27.56brlcadthere's been folks working on integration for a couple years
18:28.18tandersonwhat tracker?
18:28.22brlcadit's on the gentoo tracker, i'd have to dig up the url
18:28.30tandersonoh, gentoo's bugzilla?
18:28.33brlcadyeah
18:28.38tandersonok
18:28.49brlcadit's a very old and very long thread
18:29.17brlcadshould answer a lot of questions -- and from there I'd be glad to share where things are at *today* when you get up to speed
18:29.17tandersonunfortunately our bugzilla is down at the moment
18:29.28brlcadthat's no fun
18:29.30tandersonI'll look at it when it's fixed
18:29.37tandersonyeah
18:29.59brlcadbasically, those that are bundled are all just optional -- for platforms that don't use package management systems
18:30.08brlcadsaves a download and gives us a guaranteed regression test
18:30.36brlcadbut none have to be used (at least not any more -- we used to have heavy mods, hence why the tracker goes back years)
18:31.07brlcad--disable-almost-everything is something a packager should probably be using
18:31.27``Erikhttp://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:CrKBeNz5VpoJ:bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi%3Fid%3D77197+brlcad+site:bugs.gentoo.org&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a
18:31.29``Erikizzat it?
18:31.49tandersonyes, I think so
18:31.54brlcadthe only issue remaining that I can think of is 1) a bug in the tk sources that make run-time loading fail, and 2) a run-time lookup failure of itcl.tcl if you use a system IncrTcl
18:32.00``Erikit's got cliffs name all over it, I think that's the big thread about the issue
18:32.15brlcadyeah, he did a lot to try to get it working
18:34.40tandersonthat page doesn't really load for me
18:34.57tandersonI'll just wait for our infrastructure to bring it back up
18:35.20brlcadyeah, me either
18:35.36brlcadah, there it came up
18:35.47tandersonyeah, for me too as soon as I said it
18:36.06brlcadyeah.. since 2005 .. nice.
18:36.56tandersonwhen I get my faster machine to compile I hope to get it working better
18:38.10brlcadof those two issues I mentioned, 1 has already been fixed upstream so just a matter of if it's status is completed
18:38.55brlcadfor 2, nobody has tried it in a couple revisions, but the issue is like a line in a file to fix (just a matter of knowing which file and which line) ;)
18:39.14brlcads/fix/add/
18:39.20tandersonheh
18:40.29brlcadwonders why starseeker is manually coping files into the wiki file repo instead of using the web interface :P
18:43.22mafmgoing home, see you
18:43.38brlcadsee ya mafm
18:45.04brlcadooh, it's just the form1, cool
18:47.16tandersonheh, that bug repot is quite informative about the state of things
18:47.22tanderson*report
18:47.33``Erik<PROTECTED>
18:48.05starseekerbrlcad:  that's the form1
18:48.25starseekernormally I do use the web interface :-)
18:48.59starseekerI have to relearn how to do the www copy every time... need to write stuff faster so I do it more frequently :-P
18:49.02brlcadI think I had a long post in there at one point that explains a lot of misgivings
18:49.09brlcadstarseeker: yeah, i noticed
18:49.29starseekerheh - sorry.  I was probably tripping all kinds of warnings
18:49.32brlcadstarseeker: or keep a HOWTO in your home directory :)
18:49.39starseekerwill do that...
18:49.42brlcadnah, benign
18:50.14``Erikand every time he stumbles through trying to relearn it, he'll go to add it to his HOWTO, then chew himself out because it was already there :D *duck*
18:50.16brlcadtanderson: please let me know if you have any questions -- getting brl-cad integrated really would be great
18:50.44brlcadit's the three-year race to see whether portage folks or apt folks get a final integration first it seems :)
18:51.33starseekertanderson:  I think some form of brlcad ebuild is in the science overlay
18:51.38brlcadtanderson: also .. our INSTALL, COPYING, and README files actually contain useful/relevant information, contrary to convention ;)
18:51.49brlcadmight help with setting things up
18:52.35starseekerI really should tackle the itcl issue - that one was basically a showstopper
18:52.46brlcadand it's so easy
18:52.50brlcadyou could probably figure it out now :)
18:53.15starseekerglances suspiciously at brlcad, shrugs, and pulls up configure.ac
18:53.18``Erik'cept the itcl/itk is a horrible mash of release 3.3.1 and bits out of their CVS because it broke with tcl85
18:53.39``Erik(sorry)
18:53.49starseeker``Erik:  Are you saying you wouldn't expect it to work with a system tcl/tk right now?
18:54.07brlcad``Erik: yeah, but it works with 8.4+3.2 or 8.5+3.3 .. that can be specified
18:54.19starseekerwoot:  http://brlcad.org/w/images/f/fe/Interactive_Raytracing_-_The_nirt_Command.pdf
18:54.30brlcadat worst, there'd be a small patch
18:54.40brlcadnice work starseeker
18:55.13``Erikhrm, bob commited with "Update version.", I wonder what that means
18:55.20starseekerwishes time_to_write/time_paperwork_overhead wasn't so close to 1...
18:55.23brlcadyou think you could make it more detailed? it's kinda thin
18:55.36starseekerbrlcad:  thanks
18:55.38brlcad(just kidding!)
18:55.39starseekerbrlcad:  heh
18:55.54tandersonstarseeker: I'm aware of that ebuild. One of my colleagues in gentoo put it there ;)
18:55.58starseekerI think we've already scared folks enough :-)
18:56.17tandersonbrlcad: now that you put it as a challenge I'll be sure to work harder on it :)
18:57.26starseekerdoesn't intend to touch nirt again until the time comes to libbu-ify it and make it behave "better" as a BRL-CAD component
18:57.27``Erikwonders how much of http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/cad/brlcad/ would help O.o
18:57.53brlcadtanderson: I'll be sure to announce you guys as winning over debian folks if it happens first ;)
18:57.57starseekerFrom what I recall of the ebuild stuff, the itcl issue was THE big remaining one.
18:58.28tandersonstarseeker: yeah, definitely
18:58.37starseekerThey were absolutely determined that it wouldn't go in unless/until it could build with all system libs, and WHERE to put it was almost as big an issue
18:59.15tandersonthe where issue didn't make much sense to me as we already put kde and qt in a non-standard location
18:59.36brlcadand x11 ;)
18:59.58brlcadi don't recall, is gentoo one of the few that no longer has a librt.so from compat?
19:01.39tandersonstarseeker: fbsd won't help us much because we are a lot stricter in some areas
19:01.59tandersonbrlcad: what do you mean by 'compat'?
19:02.46brlcadlibrt is a deprecated library last I read
19:03.02starseekerhe's talking about where one of the core name conflicts comes from
19:03.14``Erikold sysV realtime library iirc?
19:03.29brlcadyeah, something like that
19:03.37starseekerHOZED his system when he ignored all warnings and attempted a /usr install
19:03.55brlcadstarted up in late 80's or early 90's .. lasted about 10 years, then was put on the chopping block
19:04.18``Eriknow there's a new one to play with, uh, a bayesian network library called libbn.so :)
19:04.48starseekerIIRC gentoo's first response was to ask us to rename our libs, which is a no-go
19:05.29brlcadi'm not too worried about them .. anyone with a 404 downloads page ...
19:05.36tandersonlibrt seems to be provided by glibc
19:05.41brlcadyep
19:05.44brlcadat least on linux
19:05.57brlcadit was part of a variety of libc implementations
19:06.20brlcadsome moved the lib to a libc compat library, others kept it but marked as dead/deprecated
19:06.43brlcadit's more a matter of "is it still there" for a default system
19:06.46starseekerThe most frustrating aspect of all that was the opendx ebuild (or maybe it was just dx) did similar non-standard things and was already in the main tree
19:10.46tandersonsome people have different standards etc.
19:11.02starseekernods. Apparently we attracted some real sticklers
19:11.48starseekerIf the itcl issue is resolved, we MIGHT be able to figure out some kind of location
19:11.57brlcadwoot, cha-ching .. my limit order executed
19:12.26``Erikstarseeker: like /usr/brlcad, where all those third party apps assume it'll be? :D
19:12.30brlcadyeah, the location should work now that mged can auto-locate all of its resources
19:12.36starseekerbrlcad:  Heh, who knew indecision on the part of the market could be so profitable?
19:13.00brlcadis loving it
19:13.19starseeker``Erik:  That would be my preference, but they REALLY wanted it in "standard" locations.  That was one very frustrating discussion
19:14.12starseeker<evil chuckle> time to get the nirt stuff into svn, although it will mean dealing with our very first custom XSL logic...
19:14.14``Erikyou're just trying to get me on a rant about linux, aren't ya O.o :D
19:14.44starseeker``Erik:  Of course - it will keep me off a rant about the frustrations of that ebuild process
19:27.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32988 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ps.c: Added an option to draw a border around the image. Also added an option for specifying a border color.
19:47.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r32989 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Added the png command to libged. For now, this works with wireframe only.
20:00.24PrezKennedyi love the EFF
20:14.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32991 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/articles/nirt/en/nirt.xml: Fix image link in nirt doc.
21:52.18``Erik<PROTECTED>
21:55.49brlcadexample, http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080924.html is public domain
21:56.57brlcadoops
22:59.04starseekerwonders if we can find a sun texture and add it to the Earth model :-)
23:09.21``Erikwell, given that the earth model is geometrically correct, I'd be awfully tempted to throw a sketch in that was "mccan't/failin '08" on it :( and that just wouldn't be very proper
23:10.32``Erikhttp://mu.org/~bright/lj/Sarah-Palin-Hunter.jpg
23:11.25``Erikhttp://mu.org/~bright/lj/2008-09-01-socksbarney_181.gif
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081018

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081018

01:17.39``Erikhttp://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c365/wraithfodder/motivational%20humor/SGA-rodneyhairmistake.jpg
01:34.02starseekerwonders how professional comedians would survive without politics
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11:58.45brlcadwow ..incrTcl 4 is released
12:14.16louipcwow
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081019

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081019

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00:32.31``Eriknow that's lovely
00:33.15``Erikupgrade from mysql 50 to 51, so it wants my to run mysql_upgrade, but it can't because I can't start mysqld, but I can't because I haven't run mysql_upgrade
00:35.56archivistlurks in #mysql and has never heard of that
00:40.21``ErikI did go from a fairly old 50 to a brand spanking new 51, mebbe I need to do a new 50, then move to 51
00:41.42archivistdunno 5.1 is still RC status
00:50.02``Erikheh, *shrug* 60 is in the ports tree, mebbe I shoulda researched :D *downgrade*
00:51.21archivist60 is somewhat beta
00:51.43``Erikyeah, "-devel"
00:52.14``Erikneeds to write the postgresql backend for this durn program
00:57.14archivistnoo 5.0 whatever should be ok
01:00.05``Eriknooo, postgresql >> mysql :D *duck*
01:00.44archivistneva!
01:01.12archivistsets the #mysql bot on ``Erik
01:02.25``Erikhehehe
01:02.38``ErikI have to say, mysql is getting far less sucky lately
01:03.36archivistI run the #mysql bot on an old PII on the shelf here
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03:00.31``Erikeveryone out of the universe, quick!
03:19.35yukonbobevening, cadheads
03:20.02yukonbobthinks Aeon Flux (live-action) might be on TV tonight...
03:24.56punkrockgirli'm dj'ing soon
03:25.08punkrockgirlif anyone cares to hear
03:27.50punkrockgirlwww.troubleradio.net
03:35.00yukonbob<PROTECTED>
03:40.59yukonbobwhat time?
03:44.45``Erik17 minutes ago
04:11.59punkrockgirlnow
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06:54.29brlcadpunkrockgirl: still on or done?
06:54.54brlcadneeds a beep or something
07:00.44clock_beeps
07:00.50brlcadheh
07:16.59yukonbobmawning
07:17.17yukonbobhey clock_, long time no see...
07:17.31clock_yukonbob: hey mawning
07:18.08yukonbobgets ready to hit hay...
07:27.14brlcadcrazy talk
07:30.09starseekerwonders if brlcad would volunteer to get "borged" for the direct nerve level computer access and the eradication of physical distractions like sleep...
07:30.47brlcadoh absolutely if the technology was solid
07:30.49clock_starseeker: in that case I would volunteer for the intergalactic optical equipment so his brain could be also connected with the aliens
07:30.52brlcadi'm all for cybernetic implants
07:31.13clock_brlcad: Universal Soldier? :)
07:31.16brlcadjust not of the brain until it's about to kick the bucket (then absolutely that too!)
07:31.29clock_what does the kick the bucket phrase mean?
07:31.34starseekerHmm, brlcad as an operating system...
07:31.35brlcaddie
07:31.45clock_aha yes :)
07:31.57starseekerthose poor cpus would need some serious overclocking
07:32.16clock_s over
07:33.06starseekerOn the other hand, we could hook him to the internet and watch Windows be eradicated from the world's computers :-)
07:33.24clock_Using M1A2 Abrams tanks?
07:33.57starseekerenjoys that mental image
07:34.06brlcadheh
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08:12.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32992 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/articles/nirt/en/Makefile.am: Point to actual file name for fo_custom.xsl
08:14.41brlcad~starseeker++
08:17.33starseekermakes the very unplesant discovery that out-of-dir build for pdf doesn't work, since the image links in the docs don't have a "top_srcdir" prefix
08:18.01starseekerponders...
08:24.22starseekerew - that's a real problem
08:40.53clock_These free software tools are ingenious due to their flexibility
08:41.12clock_I am simulating a telecommunications amplifier and want to know the time jitter caused by different shifts of 10 and 5 MHz
08:41.36clock_no simulator will show you time jitter, but in gnuplot I can enter a formula which graphs directly the time jitter from phase angles which the simulators commonly show!
08:42.02clock_SImilar to BRL-CAD, doing anything is also not difficult there, or hooking it up into custom scripts and website.
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13:45.17brlcadkicks itcl 4 configure in the nads trying to appease the tea flag gods
13:58.33louipcthere's tcl/tk 8.5.5 out too :D
14:02.04brlcadyeah, I saw that
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14:59.28novakyuhi
14:59.50novakyuis there a way to generate a blueprint from a brlcad model?
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15:06.35brlcadnovakyu: howdy -- yes and no
15:06.55brlcadyou can generate the diagram, but you have to label it with dimensions manually outside of brl-cad
15:07.51brlcadexample: http://brlcad.org/gallery/s/renderings/havoc_rtedge.png.html
15:07.53novakyui see.
15:08.48brlcadwould make an excellent addition and is on our todo list
15:09.09brlcadbut it's unfortunately not a high-priority item given other priorities and limited manpower
15:11.06clock_novakyu: you have quite a slavic sounding name
15:11.41novakyui suppose if one could somehow generate the dimension list though ...
15:11.55novakyulabeling itself may not be too onerous.
15:12.06novakyuclock_: yes, i do.
15:12.59brlcadnovakyu: it should be possible to generate the dimension list using the bounding boxes (for orthogonal views) or using 'nirt' for off-axis dimensions
15:12.59novakyuthx for the information.
15:13.16novakyuah. great.
15:14.04brlcadnirt samples a ray through an object telling you where you enter/exit and the distances in-between -- that's exact dimensioning for that ray path
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15:15.17clock_novakyu: sounds Czech
15:15.21brlcadmassive doc/tutorial on nirt published to the website just a couple days ago, making bounding boxes and getting their dimensions is pretty simple and scriptable (make_bb, analyze)
15:16.37novakyuthat sounds promising. i'll look into it.
15:16.53novakyuclock_: closer to polish
16:23.27brlcadlooks like itcl/itk 4 rely on tcl 8.5.5
16:23.58brlcadI have the upgrade pretty much done, but it requires upgrading all of tcl too .. and I'm not sure I really want to do that
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18:41.50starseekerbrlcad:  Pretty much guaranteed to break S2, isn't it?
18:47.26yukonbob"S2"?
19:42.31``Erikthird party app
19:42.44``Erikthey bitch every time tcl changes, yeah
19:43.57``Erik(if it weren't for "s2", brlcad, starseeker, bob and myself wouldn't be getting paid to work on BRL-CAD, it's that important...)
19:58.09``Erikhuh
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20:47.55``Erikcommercials on history channel are stupid. "every wish you had *SONIC* hearing?" ...
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21:24.47phreak4257Erik: please to be telling me where can I buy this "sonic hearing" of which you speak?
21:39.48brlcadstarseeker: not guaranteed, but highly likely -- and if anything, it's not worth the hassle it "might" cause even at that
21:40.43brlcadi already pushed it off into a stashed dir so it can be tried later if needed, not going to do it until we have a pressing need
21:41.22brlcadthe recent changes would have probably have helped the integration issues
21:41.40brlcaditcl and itk are finally separated, rewritten to use the new tclOO core
21:42.20brlcadand their build systems are now clean TEA builds
21:49.32``Erik#file# is emacsese for a file being edited at the moment, right?
22:24.28brlcadyeah
22:24.34brlcadunsaved change
22:25.01brlcadmake[5]: *** No rule to make target `Introduction.html', needed by `all'.  Stop.
22:25.17brlcadah, never mind .. that was my bad
22:28.01CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32994 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac src/libged/Makefile.am):
22:28.01CIA-24BRL-CAD: bob added png as a dependency to libged when he moved the 'png' command over.
22:28.01CIA-24BRL-CAD: that functionality should be shoved up into a different place (like an image
22:28.02CIA-24BRL-CAD: conversion library that erik sorta started). for now, just spell out the dep
22:28.02CIA-24BRL-CAD: and include the flags.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081020

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081020

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02:42.14ilyastarseeker: so what? Is it possible to arrange tags that way?
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10:27.17mafmhi
10:32.09claymoreMornin all
10:45.25alex_joniis it possible to import a pro-e solid from brlcad?
10:45.41alex_joniis interested in converting it to STEP or IGES
10:46.01claymoreFrom Pro/E to BRLCAD or from BRLCAD to Pro/E ?
10:47.27alex_jonifrom PRO/E to BRLCAD
10:48.09claymoreYes, there is a Pro/E to BRL-CAD converter that comes with the BRLCAD source.... although you need to have the Pro-Toolkit to be able to compile the converter.
10:48.38claymoreOther routes are Pro/E->IGES->BRL-CAD  and Pro/E-> DXF -> BRLCAD
10:48.54alex_joniactually Pro/E->IGES would be enough for me
10:49.01alex_jonibut I don't have acces to Pro/E atm
10:49.15alex_joniI only have a model I need as IGES or STEP
10:49.44claymoreOh, are you asking if BRLCAD can perform the Pro/E->IGES conversion?  Because if you are, then no, we don't do that ;)
10:50.15alex_joniok, thanks
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11:34.51claymoreMernin Erik!
11:46.32brlcadalex_joni: i just read that and am not sure what exactly you were asking wrt conversion
11:47.02brlcadwe're not the pro/e folks so I don't see why you'd be asking about proe->iges ..
11:49.47claymoreWell, brlcad, when you need 'spert advice about conversions... gotta go to the 'sperts ;)
11:58.38claymorebrlcad:  you in today?  How goes the 'hunting' ?
12:04.08alex_jonibrlcad: I was wondering if there is a pro/w->brlcad->iges way
12:04.26alex_joniand claymore is right about the 'spert advice ;)
12:07.06claymoreDarn tootin.
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13:48.31brlcadclaymore: cept we have more than enough in our own hands to be providing support to commercial cad packages that folks have *paid* them to answer their questions :-)
13:50.11brlcadharmless in this instance, but don't want it to become a habit in general -- focus is selfishly and shamelessly on our stuff
13:50.51brlcadalex_joni: so yeah, in that instance, there'd be no point with the intermediary, just dump pro/e->iges directly
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13:59.55CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32996 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/solver_test.cpp: Avoiding compiler complaint: solver_test.cpp:98: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to 'char*'
14:11.50mafm_brlcad: you around?
14:12.44mafmwell, any other experienced developer might chime in
14:13.07mafmthe supposed fix of my commit above triggers compiler errors
14:13.41mafmbecause some statically defined C-string is ending up in some struct with char**
14:14.10mafmso I don't know if the proper fix is to modify the struct, revert the change, or what :)
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14:25.28mafmhi pacman87
14:27.47pacman87howdy
14:31.09CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32997 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/fb_obj.c: Avoiding compiler complaint: fb_obj.c:102: warning: passing argument 4 of 'bu_cmd' from incompatible pointer type
14:46.03CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32998 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (get_obj_bounds.c how.c): Including stdlib.h which declares free(), to avoid warning: incompatible implicit declaration of built-in function 'free'
14:46.15CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r32999 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/bot_dump.c: Avoid warning: passing argument 3 of 'ged_bot_dump' from incompatible pointer type
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15:10.00claymorehai erik!
15:10.04``Eriksays some impolite things concerning his service provider.
15:10.44``Erik'sup, jgkillingvacationboy?
15:12.18claymorenot much getyourowndamnjgsfoo, en you?
15:13.05``ErikI have a few jg's, but I've been building defenses more, being that I can borrow other peoples jg's :D my big jg is gonna be in 65 I think
15:14.24claymorecool.  You can have mine when quitting time comes ;)  I can prolly hang on another month or so....
15:15.01``Erikyeah, I might only last that long, too heh
15:15.37``ErikI got a DN this weekend and ... well, *shrug* yeah, now I have one, big whup
15:15.45``Erikgame lacks depth :(
15:16.27claymoreah, first dread eh?  I am building them up and will do some smashage when I have enough.... takes too long though :/
15:16.37claymore580 hours on the next level of photon
15:16.42``Erikclose to my first titan
15:16.42claymorevomits
15:16.49claymorereally?  NICE
15:16.57``Erikone more research and a couple structures
15:17.44claymoreoh hell.  didnt even realize I can make titans now!  *slams head on desk*  DOH
15:17.48``Erikand 4 prings in the queue, one already out
15:17.58``Erik:D it's the 22(3) that's gonna hurt me I think
15:18.05claymoreNice.  Prings act as a pretty good deterrant.
15:18.17``Erikpshields on everything, too, plus 10 dizzies
15:18.20claymoreyeah... its  PITA.  it took soo long I forgot about them. lol
15:18.29claymorehence why I didn't even see them complete lol.
15:19.11claymoreSounds like you have some nice fleet blender planets :)
15:19.23``Erik<-- not sure how people are spending 4 years with multiple accounts on that game though
15:20.00``ErikI d'no, how keen would you be to jump http://epsilon.astroempires.com/base.aspx?base=136910 ? :D
15:21.24claymoreget those CCs up!  otherwise pretty tight :)
15:21.40claymoreand no, 4 years on multiple accounts.... can't fathom
15:38.21mafmkicks CIA-24
15:38.21CIA-24ow
15:53.44mafmdoes anybody know if bu_lob / bu_vls_printf support 64 bit pointers? :)
16:55.46brlcadmafm: they should work just fine
16:55.52brlcadwe do 64-bit builds
16:57.27brlcadmafm: regarding the static c-string, haven't looked at the patch yet but I would expect a static c-string to be const or well-defined via the api
16:58.25mafmbrlcad: does %p work with bu_vls_vprintf?
16:58.52brlcadhm
16:59.03brlcadlooks
16:59.31mafmtheoretically there's a "case 'p':" but dunno if works with 64 bits
16:59.42mafmthat was mostly my question
16:59.44brlcadlooks like it should work
17:00.07mafmsince some "%x, (unsigned int)pointer" looks like a bad idea for portability
17:00.12mafmand it issues some warnings :)
17:00.21mafmso is it OK if I change them for %p, right?
17:00.24brlcadjust sprintf's as an int, which would be 64-bit
17:01.07brlcadevery instance of %p and %x that is used I can think of is actually developer/debug statements, nothing incredibly important
17:01.22mafmyes, they're logs
17:01.37mafmin converters
17:01.49brlcadI thought there was some significant portability problem with %p, but I'm not remembering at the moment
17:02.14mafmso do I change them or not?
17:02.40brlcadcommit a few and I can run some portability tests
17:03.02brlcador commit them all as one chunk and I can do the same, either way
17:03.05mafmthey're only 4 of them :)
17:04.20brlcadthere are more than that -- you probably just found them in one file somewhere :)
17:04.35brlcadthere's probably a couple dozen spread throughout where pointer addresses are printed
17:05.11CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r33001 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/ (dxf/dxf-g.c dxf/g-dxf.c fast4-g.c): Avoiding warning: cast from pointer to integer of different size -- Using format %p for pointers instead of '%x, (unsigned int)pointer', which should work with bu_vls_vprintf()
17:05.11mafmI mean the ones that I'm intending to shut off
17:05.34brlcadwhat was the warning?
17:06.07mafmit's in the commit message
17:06.13mafmjust printed above
17:06.29brlcadah, gotit
17:06.30mafmcast from pointer to integer of different size
17:06.52mafmso, pointer is 64 bits and (unsigned int) 32
17:07.05brlcadooh, that should have been "unsigned long" for the usual trick, printing to an %lx
17:07.27brlcadthe dxf convs are old code
17:08.35mafmbut if %p is supported, it's better that way, isn't it?
17:09.09brlcadsure, why not
17:39.00mafmbrlcad: FMAX(a, b) is redefined in nirt/interact.c, having it in common.h (same code except for not casting it to double)
17:39.32mafmand it's used for a path length, with doesn't need casting to double at all
17:40.25mafmI'm removing it, if there are no objections :)
17:43.13*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
17:43.34``Erik...
17:44.24brlcadmafm: no objections here..
17:44.50mafmwb ``Erik
17:46.03mafmgood
17:46.58mafmflaming ``Erik: not using fmax() it's because of the BSD hippies anyway :þ
17:47.16brlcadheh
17:47.39``Erikhuh?
17:47.57mafmit's because of a FMAX macro
17:48.18mafmyou would see the commit, but SF's SVN servers are down or something
17:48.43``Erikwhich file?
17:48.50``Eriker, wait, you haven't committed yet
17:48.56``Erikquit confusin' me, boy :D
17:49.03mafmlol
17:49.05mafmsorry :)
17:50.00mafmit's in nirt/interact.c, redifining the macro in common.h, but the comment says that BRL-CAD uses FMAX() even if it's in c99 because BSDs don't implement it
17:51.34mafmkicks CIA-24 again
17:52.05mafmkicks CIA-24
17:52.05CIA-24ow
17:52.12mafmnow :P
17:53.35``Erikhrm, it was sucked in at some point, dun remember when
17:55.59``Erikjuly of '04
17:56.42mafmwhat does that mean, that some BSD folks removed them from their libc? if so, why?
17:57.29``Erikjune, rather
17:57.41brlcadmafm: sf is still dropping them (or there's a problem with the procmailer)
17:57.58brlcadand will probably continue to drop them until me or another guy can investigate
17:58.08brlcadit's only a few projects
17:58.13brlcadwe're "lucky"
17:58.37``Erikum, sunos 5.1 implemented them as a macro, fbsd has been using suns math.h, which predates c99... it's been slowly pulled into spec
17:58.53mafmbrlcad: ok, no problem... it works intermittently anyway
17:59.08``Erikhttp://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/lib/msun/src/math.h.diff?r1=1.36;r2=1.37;f=h
18:00.02``ErikI d'no about obsd or nbsd
18:00.41``Erikshould only effect fbsd before 5.0 *shrug*
18:01.09mafmwell, it's good to have in common.h then
18:01.20mafmjust not duplicated for no purpose :)
18:05.51``Erikooh, some neato CPP macro fu for that one
18:06.29mafmhuh?
18:07.00``Erikin gcc's source
18:07.14mafmah
18:07.16mafm:D
18:07.36brlcadstarseeker: somewhere in the manpages, you've got Introduction.html listed as a built_source (which causes it to be deleted)
18:07.42mafmyou take the "use the Source, Luke" quite seriously
18:07.45brlcadyet it's also svn managed
18:08.14starseekeroopd
18:08.36starseekerthat's just a "here's the help browser" page
18:08.52``Erikmmx_smaxv2sf3  wow, that's a useful name :D heh
18:08.59starseekerwants it installed, but probably did it wrong
18:10.03``Erikbest I can tell, there is an sse/3dnow op that does basically fmax(), and gcc 4.0 and later will attempt to use it if possible. If FMAX() is used in a tight loop, that's a case for trying to use it :)
18:11.45mafmprobably
18:12.11mafmdoesn't dare to dive into GCC source code
18:12.38``Erikit's far less horrible than the 2.7.2.3 days
18:12.53mafmso here I have the last-but-one of the compiler complaints, the one that I unsuccessfully tried to shut before
18:13.00``Erikeven the versioning is far less horrible :D
18:13.28mafmhomovulgaris used some struct with char** args for his constraints
18:14.01``Erikyes, "char **" vs "const char **", which seem sto have been fixed in the last hour or so
18:14.03mafmthen in some part of the code is doing: char* args[] = { "whatever", "other" }
18:14.46mafmand the compiler warns because those are "static" c-strings
18:15.24mafmso what's the proper way to deal this kind of things? doing nothing, changing the struct, ...?
18:16.27``Erikargs[0] = "whatever"; args[1] = "other";   ? possibly?
18:16.54``Erikargs = (char **)malloc(sizeof(char *) * 2); before those
18:17.17``Erik"stop building solver_test by default" :D
18:17.18brlcadmafm: declare them as const char* args[] = ...
18:17.54mafm``Erik: I thought about that too, probably the best thing to do anyway
18:17.56``Eriknoo, it's being automatically coerced, it's when it's passed to the function, it's trying to convert the const char to char
18:18.12mafmbrlcad: that was my first attempt, but then gives a compiler error, not just a warning
18:18.21mafmas erik says
18:18.53``Erikthis is src/libpc/sol<tab> line 98 or so
18:18.57mafmI don't know if the test is related with testing the software or waht
18:19.12mafmI mean, the one running with "make tests"
18:19.29mafmin that case probably it shouldn't be disabled
18:19.41``Erikno, solver_test is not executed at all from the build system
18:21.06mafmso I just disable it in Makefile.am then
18:21.16mafmphone
18:21.56``Erikpersonally, I'd add the .cpp file to EXTRA_DIST and provide an explicit rule to compile it correctly, but not put it in noinst_PROGRAMS, but that's just me
18:30.40CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33003 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Introduction.html Introduction.xml Makefile.am): Use docbook for intro page too
18:30.48starseekerbrlcad:  That should work better
18:30.53brlcadmafm: ah, then it sounds like it's getting passed to a routine declared as non-const
18:31.12brlcadwhich is probably the "problem" .. the constness probably needs to extend throughout libpc
18:33.23``Erikdrops his pants and runs around the building screaming
18:33.44``Erik(now if only I were to jog down the hall screaming, that'd freak a couple people out, methinks)
18:35.27``Erikholy crap, it's been a long time since I've logged into a linux machine, heh
18:37.21mafmlol
18:37.34mafmtotally freaked out by ``erik
18:38.03``Eriksanity is overrated
18:38.39mafmbrlcad: the question is if from a desgin point of view, this kind of args should be overridable (?) or not
18:39.00mafmI don't think that there's much point in modifying an argument
18:39.28mafmand if in main() is non const, it's because of a special reason
18:39.39``Erikwe have a lot of code that should probably wear the const attribute O.o
18:39.51CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33004 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: reword cliffs efforts to 'mged help menu is restructured for improved usability' since lowercase mged is used on the one-liners
18:39.56``Erikyou can coerce to const, it's bad to coerce FROM const
18:40.07brlcadmafm: I didn't (at least immediately) see a reason why the API would need to modify that arg
18:40.15brlcadwhich means const needs to propagate
18:40.38brlcadwith that done, it doesn't matter if the caller is const or not
18:41.12mafmgood
18:41.28mafmpropagates down to the struct or only other function args?
18:42.22``Erikrecursively make the callee const
18:43.39``Erikint alpha(int x){} int beta(int x){alpha(x);} int gamma(const int x){beta(x);}  /* make beta take const int x, then make alpha take const int x */
18:45.00mafmyup
18:45.20mafmbut alpha is using a struct with "char** args"
18:45.50mafmso I guess if I should do that a const, in the struct already -- I think so
18:46.05mafmbecause of brlcad's explanation about APIs
18:46.56CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33005 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am: no such file: opennurbs.xcodeproj
18:47.10brlcaddoesn't recall explaining much about APIs :)
18:47.31mafm[19:40:07] <brlcad> mafm: I didn't (at least immediately) see a reason why the API would need to modify that arg
18:47.39``Erikum, but the args field is being addressed immediately, the struct itself is not being passed? it's good to coerce TO const, you should do it every time it makes sense O.o :D
18:47.41brlcadif alpha is using a char **args, yes it would need to be made const
18:48.12mafmargs is a member of "pc_constrnt" struct really
18:48.23brlcadmafm: I know, I just wouldn't call that explaining much -- just a statement of perception :)
18:48.26mafmso if args shouldn't need to be modified, it can be const there too
18:48.44``Erikint alpha(char **x); int beta(char **x); int gamma(struct *poo) { beta(poo->x); }   /* still cast to const */
18:49.17mafm
18:49.19brlcadmafm: whether the struct needs to have it set const is a slightly different matter -- it could go either way
18:49.22mafmyou'll see the diff
18:49.29``Erikint alpha(const char **x); int beta(const char **x){alpha(x);} int gamma(struct *poo) { beta((const char **)poo->x); }
18:49.39brlcadif something uses struct->args and it complains about constness, that's where you would need to cast the const potentially
18:49.52brlcadyeah, like that
18:50.16``Erikyay, tkhtml3 breaks on make distcheck, no rule to make target `distdir'
18:51.29brlcadhm, it does have a dist rule, so hopefully something simple can be done
18:53.04``Erikhm, since it's fresh from starseeker, should this be, um, more education for him? :D
18:54.17brlcadsounds like an outstanding idea
18:54.27brlcadthough I did just hack a fix
18:54.46starseekerdrags himself out of the g_qa source code
18:54.51PrezKennedycontinuing to teach the padawan the ways of the Farce?
18:54.52PrezKennedy;)
18:54.52``Erik:D
18:55.09``Erikand here I was, all ready to go around the corner and do a major dramatic finger posing pose
18:55.13``Erikpointing
18:55.58CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33006 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/Makefile.am: totally hack the tkhtml3 dist inclusion. don't even both with logic. someone(tm) should test or make DIST_SUBDIRS actually work.
18:56.11brlcaddidn't madonna do finger posing poses?
18:56.19brlcadi remember a song about that
18:56.51``Erikthought it was more about finger hiding poses
18:56.53``Erikvogues
18:58.01mafmlol
18:59.11mafmhmm, I don't know if some code of homovulgaris is leaking
18:59.15mafmI will put a note
19:00.45mafmor wait... free() free memory assigned to ** pointers, no need to say the size or anything? or arrays ala delete[] in C++?
19:01.01CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33007 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/ (win32-msvc8/Makefile.am win32-msvc9/Makefile.am): bot2raw no longer exists, renamed to bot_dump (with no build file)
19:01.18brlcadmafm: no, there's not delete[] semantic
19:01.25brlcadyou delete the elements, then you delete the container
19:01.44brlcaddepending on the allocation sorts, assuming dynamic allocation
19:02.23mafmthinks that he didn't use C for far too long :/
19:02.27brlcadso free()'ing a ** pointer is perfectly fine .. but if it's a container, there is potentially more to free
19:03.33mafmit's the args (char*), not another container
19:04.46mafmgoody
19:04.57mafmso yet another complaint removed!
19:06.21brlcadthat's the fun with constness .. it's like a vine that grows throughout the code.. once you plant a seed, it has to propagate
19:06.51mafmit's odd in C
19:07.14mafmat least for me in C++ is much more natural when you do it for objects and since the beginning
19:07.15brlcadthat mess all started last weekend when I was working on getting c++ compilation mode working
19:07.22``Erik2damnit
19:07.40``Erikbrlcad beat me to the msvc files, sucks to be me, testing a distcheck before commiting
19:08.25brlcadthe rules are really the same for C++ .. it's just the same sort of issues you'd have if you try to retroactively make class functions const that weren't originally
19:08.36brlcadhar har :)
19:11.20CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r33008 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): const'ifying arguments for constraints (they don't seem to need to be modified), and additionally in this way we avoid yet another compiler warning
19:11.44mafmwell, yes, but since you usually take responsibility for each class to manage itself, it's less prone to let anybody access the stuff when it doesn't need it
19:12.03mafmat least it was my major mind-shift when starting to use C++ from C
19:12.14brlcadthat can be said of "neat" simple C functions too
19:12.34brlcadit's really just a matter of the guy writing the prototype and remembering to say "oh, this should be const"
19:13.12brlcadwhich you can forget or do with either -- the language really has nothing to do with it, not even towards encouraging/discouraging you to think about it up front imho
19:13.20mafmyep, but what I'm saying is that in my case, C++  (or OOP in general) makes me to remind that part much more easily
19:13.34brlcadbecause that's how you learned C++
19:13.57brlcadI also learned C that way, it's odd for me to not think about it in exactly the same way
19:14.22mafm``Erik: you can work your automake trickery with solver_test if you want, I'm a bit scared of using that
19:14.44brlcadobject encapsulation doesn't change that -- it changes the data, giving me a bunch of "static's" to play with and store things in
19:14.46mafmbrlcad: you use const in C all the time?
19:15.04brlcadas much as I remember to do so with C++, sure :)
19:15.20brlcadfor new code, it's usually one of a half dozen things I try to ensure
19:16.07mafm:D
19:16.11mafmnice
19:16.19brlcadconsistent style, constness, proper scope of functionality, right data types, consistent return values, good readability, etc
19:16.20mafmI've never saw that too much in C code
19:16.37CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r33009 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pc_constraints.c: Moving doxygen comment to the proper place
19:20.24starseekerworks on puzzling out the requirements of distdir
19:21.30brlcadstarseeker: while you're at it, doc/docbook dist building is busted too ;)
19:21.53starseekerok
19:22.15mafmgtoos/solshoot.c gives another (last!) warning at line 158, when assigning a callback
19:22.30mafm"assignment from incompatible pointer type"
19:23.18mafmthere are other places with the same assignation and declaration of functions which doesn't give the warning
19:24.07mafm(something in mged I think, grepping for it right now)
19:24.42CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33010 10/brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/solshoot.c: ws cleanup
19:25.23mafmmged/solids_on_ray.c 225, in example
19:25.50CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33011 10/brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/solshoot.c: remove unused parameter
19:26.08brlcadif they both declare parameter lists, they need to match
19:26.12brlcadin that case, they didn't
19:26.20brlcadbut fortunately, the extra arg wasn't even used
19:27.12mafmbrlcad: but then the one of mged/solids_on_ray has the same problem
19:28.14mafmgonna compile and test it, but haven't read a warning from it before...
19:28.50brlcadnot surprising -- almost everything used to use k&r style declarations
19:29.04brlcadwhich didn't require argument lists, so the compiler didn't care
19:29.33brlcadthe argument lists are continually added over time, causing propagation of warnings where funcs are set and passed around that have to get fixed
19:29.38brlcadkinda like constness propagation
19:29.51brlcadjust not as deep
19:30.17mafmhmm
19:30.28CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33012 10/brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c population.c): quell extra compilation warnings
19:31.13mafmbut what was the difference between both declarations then? I don't see the one of mged having k&r style
19:31.51mafmoh wait, it's inside ifdef
19:32.10mafmso most certainly it wasn't copiled, that's the difference :D
19:35.05mafmwell, going home now
19:35.13CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r33013 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/solids_on_ray.c: Propagating modification to another file (r33011)) using the same code, the extra parameter didn't match the callback declaration
19:35.30mafmtake care :)
20:12.11starseekerblinks has his distcheck fails at tk itself
20:42.36starseekergrowls at distcheck
20:49.22starseekeruh-oh - It's giving me tar: brlcad-7.13.0/doc/docbook/lessons/mged/assigning_material_properties_and_raytracing_images/commandwindow.png: file name is too long (max 99); not dumped
20:50.55starseekerbrlcad:  I take it I need to do some r enaming?
21:17.24CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33014 10/brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/ (g_diff.c g_lint.c g_qa.c testfree.c): quell variety of compilation warnings
21:20.54brlcadyeah, looks like posix says 100 is the max
21:21.05brlcadwith optional behavior to bump it up to 256
21:21.15brlcadbut portably/practically it drops to 100
21:21.24starseekerok
21:21.28starseekerwill redo
21:21.47brlcadgnu tar does their own thing to extend it even farther, but even they'll obey the limit if posix mode is set
21:22.30brlcadlooks like it's mainly so you don't end up with a tar file that old tar can't open up
21:23.12brlcadaside from "assigning_material_properties_and_raytracing_images" being rediculously long :)
21:26.29starseekeryeah, yeah ;-)
21:26.47*** join/#brlcad Gariton (n=kvirc@p54996157.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:27.02CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33015 10/brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/ (Makefile.am testfree.c): get rid of testfree. it's apparently just a trivial test of libbu memory management. really unnecessary.
21:33.58brlcadstarseeker: here's a simple fix to g_qa you can make to get ya started into the code
21:34.04brlcadrip out the conversion tables
21:34.08brlcadmake it use libbu
21:34.25brlcadthat's a hundred lines of waste as it is
21:34.46starseekerunit conversions?
21:35.55brlcadyep
21:36.03starseekercan do
21:36.03brlcadit's all manually hard-coded in there
21:36.13brlcadthere are libbu routines to help with that
21:36.18CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33016 10/brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/ (g_diff.c g_lint.c g_qa.c g_transfer.c): style/consistency cleanup
21:36.19starseekerhumph.  A lot of the tools seem to have that coded in
21:36.46starseekerwas it rtweight that had that really bad case that was causing incorrect unit printouts?
21:36.47brlcadhe has it handling more than linear units, so you might have to keep the other two smaller tables (or add them to libbu)
21:36.55starseekernods
21:37.00brlcadyeah, they all really need to be refactored
21:37.34brlcadyeah, rtweight's had a bug -- perfect example why that sort of hard-codedness is bad maintainability
21:37.49brlcadgets fixed in one place, and nobody knows about or fixes the other N places
21:40.17CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33017 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/Makefile.am: Try this for docbook build logic - it seems to allow the make distcheck to proceed (wipes out for other reasons, will fix those next.)
21:40.31starseekerOK, I gotta run right now - will retool the lessons subdirectory tonight.
21:59.14CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33018 10/brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/ (Makefile.am solshoot.c):
21:59.14CIA-24BRL-CAD: remove the also mostly useless solshoot test program. looks like it fires a
21:59.14CIA-24BRL-CAD: hard-coded ray at specified geometry with debugging getting turned on/off for
21:59.14CIA-24BRL-CAD: redblack tree testing. either way, doesn't do anything useful and has been a
21:59.14CIA-24BRL-CAD: maintenance burden. bye.
22:07.56CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33019 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkhtml3/Makefile.in: don't generate the tkhtml3 documentation every time we run make (nor by default).
22:28.18*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
22:54.04CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33020 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewarea.c:
22:54.04CIA-24BRL-CAD: temporarily revert the center of presented area changes to rtarea since they
22:54.04CIA-24BRL-CAD: break the output formatting (and the computations still had yet to be
22:54.04CIA-24BRL-CAD: peer-reviewed by someone for correctness) which would detrimentally affect the
22:54.04CIA-24BRL-CAD: S2 folks.
22:57.18*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
22:59.21CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33021 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rt/viewarea.c: emphasize the output formatting deprecation (even if it does risk breaking the S2 tools, it'll prepare folks for the bigger change coming).
23:01.02CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33022 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: rtarea is reverted so the only release issue remaining is to fix the distcheck failures.
23:55.09``Erikhah, "nailin' paylin", so wrong
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081021

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081021

00:48.42``Eriksilly 'puters
00:52.10RalithAny of you have suggestions for a place to go for relatively cheap acrylic lasercutting?
00:52.56brlcadnot I
01:04.54``Erikghetto gourmet! woohoo
04:06.11yukonbobhello, cadheads
04:39.33brlcadhowdy yukonbob
04:52.13yukonbobwhat's happening, brlcad?
05:05.30brlcadkeeping busy
05:05.37brlcadfortunately back to coding
05:10.14starseekerpulls out a railgun and shoots autotools
05:15.33brlcadheh
05:15.46brlcadit's a rite of passage to learn "the gnu way"
05:18.30yukonbobheh
05:50.15*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-94-165.dclient.hispeed.ch)
05:53.16CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33023 10/brlcad/trunk/ (170 files in 34 dirs): Take a stab at re-naming the volume II lessons to have somewhat shorter path names
08:20.23*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@cl-213.dus-01.de.sixxs.net)
08:23.39*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch)
10:31.36*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
10:32.25*** join/#brlcad clock__ (n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch)
10:33.11mafmhi
10:52.46claymorehai!!
11:04.14*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
11:30.08*** join/#brlcad phreak4257 (n=phreak@70-56-24-145.eugn.qwest.net)
12:05.54*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5B14DC0E.dip.t-dialin.net)
12:35.04*** join/#brlcad geocalc (n=geocalc@91-171-193-121.rev.libertysurf.net)
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12:57.13CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33024 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: declaration of rt_clean_resource_complete() so that it can be used somewhere
13:05.30CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33025 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_open.c: fixed a memory leak for in memory databases
13:17.18CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33026 10/rt^3/trunk/src/coreInterface/ConstDatabase.cpp: made use of libbu's memory management
13:18.20CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33027 10/rt^3/trunk/src/coreInterface/Database.cpp: memory leak fixed
13:27.01``Erikheh
13:27.18``Erikstarseeker: there're similarities between the auto* community and the lisp community... :D *duck*
13:32.53*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl107.esjtvtli.sover.net)
13:34.14``Erikheh http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php   <-- disturbing
13:41.18mafmreally disturbing, yep
14:40.06claymoreHeh, I woul dlike to see a graph comparing Public and Private School teachers, Active Duty Military and Pro Sports players....
14:41.39CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r33028 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CommandInterpreter.cxx Commands.h): Adding command to dump the database to a file
14:47.59``Erikactive duty vs pro sports wouldn't be interesting unless you used a logarithmic scale O.o
14:49.44``Erikeven sr occifers, I'd imagine
14:50.09``Erikmuch less the unwashed enlisted masses
14:57.24CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33029 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: daniel fixed an in-memory geometry db memory leak. looks like the memory wasn't being freed during db_close.
15:09.20claymoreunwashed?  lol
15:20.34CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r33030 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/GedData.cxx: ws for clarity
15:21.58CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r33031 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CommandInterpreter.cxx Commands.h): Adding command 'Solids on ray'
15:25.52starseekergrr - why isn't tkhtml3 using the local tk?
15:26.04``Erikbrlcad: japan house?
15:33.16brlcad``Erik: i would, but too far out, won't get there in time
15:48.36starseekerSomehow, ac_cv_c_tkh=${ac_cv_c_tkh=/usr/include} is creeping into the configure result
15:52.00claymorebrlcad:  are you coding & commiting from you cell phone again?  Mad skillz i tell ya....
15:54.30starseekeranybody on a systerm where they have a toplevel config.cache.* handy?
16:23.32starseekerarrrrrrgh.  How can ac_cv_c_tclh be present in the config cache but not have any code that's referring to it in configure
16:29.23brlcadclaymore: I can/have, but not at the moment .. do I need to be? :)
16:31.03starseekerhelp
16:32.59starseekermake distcheck is failing here:  In file included from ../../../../src/other/tkhtml3/src/html.h:62, from ../../../../src/other/tkhtml3/src/cssdynamic.c:2:
16:33.03starseeker/usr/include/tk.h:23:3: error: #error Tk 8.4 must be compiled with tcl.h from Tcl 8.4
16:33.23starseekerObviously, with enable-all on, it shouldn't be getting /usr/include/tk.h in the first place
16:34.08starseekerThe configure options, when examined, show that /usr/include is substituted where the tk/generic include should be
16:34.39starseekertracing this leads back to the config.cache.* file, which does indeed have ac_cv_c_tkh=/usr/include
16:35.41starseekerBut I can't for the life of me figure out why ac_cv_c_tclh is correctly set and ac_cv_c_tkh is not - the ac_cv_c_tkconfig variable is actually set correctly
16:37.27starseekerThere is no direct assignment of either of those variables anywhere in the configure logic - I can't figure out how/where they're being generated and stuck in config.cache
16:56.10claymorebrlcad:  chuck just dropped by and left some donuts for ya.  just so you know ;)
17:03.37*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-89-6.dclient.hispeed.ch)
17:07.09``Erikobviously, tk.h should not be in /usr/include
17:07.10``Erik:D
17:08.07starseeker``Erik:  thanks
17:08.21starseeker``Erik:  Do you happen to have a config.cache file handy?
17:09.56``Erika few
17:10.08starseekerWhat does your value for that variable look like?
17:10.36``Erikwhich os and which variable?
17:10.51``Erikac_cv_c_t{k,cl}h ?
17:11.00starseekerac_cv_c_tkh
17:11.35``Erikac_cv_c_tkh=${ac_cv_c_tkh=/usr/brlcad/HEAD/include}
17:11.49starseekerIs that with an enable-all configure?
17:12.11``Erikno, it's "configure --enable-optimized --prefix=/usr/brlcad/HEAD"
17:12.25starseekerare you using system tcl/tk?
17:12.49``Eriknah, it builds
17:13.00starseekerso that variable setting makes no sense at all
17:13.21``Erikac_cv_c_tkh=${ac_cv_c_tkh=/usr/brlcad/HEAD-ALL/include}
17:13.33``Erikthat's in the --enable-all build on that fbsd opteron
17:13.39``Erikthe first is from my mac
17:14.01starseekeryeah, it's doing something similar on my machine - $PREFIX/include
17:14.06starseekerthat's wrong
17:15.10starseekerit's why distcheck is failing here - tkhtmle is trying to use that include path and (surprise surprise) bombing because it's a different tk.h than it needs
17:16.14starseekerthis is beyond my level of autoconf foo - I got as far as knowing why the variable is named the way it is, but I so far can't figure where it's (not) being set
17:16.32starseekeror why tclh is
17:17.36starseeker``Erik any ideas?
17:20.13CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r33032 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (CommandInterpreter.cxx Commands.h): Adding command 'Zap'
17:24.22CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r33033 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/Commands.h: Sorting 'ged' commands alphabetically, for easier location later
17:26.25mafmwho's responsible for cleaning the ged result string between commands?
17:26.45mafmthe library with each new message, or the "user" of the library?
17:26.56*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (i=500@resnet-46-165.dorm.utexas.edu)
17:29.18``Erikstarseeker: nope, this'd be the point where I start reading the configure script itself :/
17:41.54mafmbrlcad: wake up you lazy boy!
17:50.54CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33034 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/adrt_struct.h: bring into sync with isst
17:52.04starseeker``Erik:  tried that
18:43.02starseekerbrlcad:  Has this ac_cv_c_tkh variable ever been a problem before?
18:48.57starseeker``Erik:  Does make distcheck work for you on a Mac?
19:00.47``Erikd'no, haven't tried it
19:07.19CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33035 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/3dm/3dm-g.cpp: using namespace std is prohibited juju
19:11.15CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33036 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/bottest.c: remove outfp global
19:24.43starseekerOK, I'm beginning to see - tcl.m4 is what's supplying the variable
19:42.48CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r33037 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (186 files): Initialize result before the sanity checks, because otherwise the error string keeps appending new errors to the last message
19:43.10CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33038 10/brlcad/trunk/include/rtgeom.h: move brep.h up to the file header so it's not buried deep and sitting within the DECLS block
19:44.01mafmgoing home, take care folkz :)
19:45.17starseekerUh, tcl/generic is not the location for tk/generic...
20:16.37CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33039 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: ws cleanup
20:47.50starseekerthis is so stupid - somewhere in this sea of config stuff TK_SRC_DIR must be getting set to the TCL src directory - but how to find it?
21:28.40starseekeranybody know how to "watch" a configure process to spot where variables are being set?
21:31.44``Erikread the script? :D
21:36.51starseekerdammit, I'm trying to
21:39.18``Erikread harder!
21:39.49``Erikwhen I get into brainbusters, I often put a lot of echo statements ini that script near what I think the fruity bit is, then run configure inside of a script(1) or 2>&1 | tee it
21:40.09``Erikor if you're masochistic, sh -x configure
21:41.03archivistvi script /variable n n n n
21:42.45starseekerwhy is ${top_srcdir} empty??
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21:57.06starseeker``Erik:  why is it I can pin it down to TK_SRC_DIR and yet not be able to see any instances of that actually being set?
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22:53.33``Erikis it coming from a script somewhere?
22:53.42``Erikif you have a bsd make, you can inspect make variables with -V
23:04.24louipc#grep ged
23:42.38``Erikhah "svn is better for windows users. git is better for git users."
23:45.28louipcso what's better for everyone else?
23:47.12``Erikcvs
23:47.16``ErikO:-)
23:47.31louipc...
23:47.42louipcunless you start using git I guess. yeah!
23:48.29``ErikI keep seeing darcs around lately
23:55.10``Erikbut still use cvs for my personal stuff *shrug*
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081022

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081022

00:00.58louipcI use git. It's way faster and cleaner in my opinion
00:05.43``Erikcleaner how? (the other argument sounds like a no-starter to me *shrug* personal opinion I suppose)
00:06.24louipcmy directories aren't littered with CVS
00:07.10``Erikheh, true, but subversion makes .svn directories, darcs makes an ugly _darcs directory, both of those have FAR more crap than cvs... what's git use?
00:08.08louipc.git at the top level only
00:08.29louipcall diffs/config/etc is stored there
00:08.43``Erikso you have to go to the top level directory to do any operation?
00:08.47louipcnope
00:08.54louipcyou can be in any subdir
00:09.11``Erikhuh, recursive parent checking? O.o
00:09.18louipcI don't need a separate checkout to look at an branch
00:09.33``Erikhops on louipc's box and makes ugly stuff in /.git/ :D
00:09.59louipcgit is pretty sweet. better than svn or cvs at least
00:10.10louipcI can't speak for the other stuff out there since I never used it
00:10.14``Erik_darcs is directory top-level, too, and it drives me nuts *shrug*
00:10.34louipchehe yeah they could have made it a .darcs
00:10.58``Erikpersonally, I like cvs more than svn... svn copes with moving files, but that's the only leg up it has on cvs to me *shrug* :)
00:11.23``Erikeven so, "find ." returns about twice what it SHOULD
00:11.32louipchehe indeed
00:11.43``Erikand it uses twice as many inodes as it should, and craps all over the directory table, and ... :D
00:11.48louipcyeah git is grep/find friendly
00:12.17louipcall objects have SHA1 hashes and they're stored based on that hash too
00:12.38``ErikO.o
00:12.40louipcso you get some corruption/tampering warnings if things don't add up
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03:15.19CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33040 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkhtml3/tclconfig/tcl.m4: (log message trimmed)
03:15.19CIA-24BRL-CAD: This fixes a problem that showed up in make distcheck, but will also be
03:15.19CIA-24BRL-CAD: triggered in any situation where there doesn't happen to be a correct tk.h
03:15.19CIA-24BRL-CAD: include file installed - the list variable used by tcl.m4 already had
03:15.19CIA-24BRL-CAD: directories in it when the time came to find the tk.h file to use, and those
03:15.23CIA-24BRL-CAD: pre-existing paths caused a build failure on some machines (in my case, it was
03:15.25CIA-24BRL-CAD: trying to use /usr/include/tk.h despite the enable-all flag because it 'saw'
03:18.20starseekercan't believe that took him so long :-(
03:20.29louipcnice
03:21.36louipcstarseeker: do you think tkhtml3 should be installed in the same place as brlcad? right now it's installing in /usr/lib
03:22.36CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33041 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/Makefile.am libpc/Makefile.am other/Makefile.am): These tweaks get make distcheck up to the documentation build.
03:29.02starseekerlouipc:  Is it?  crud  It's supposed to install wherever tcl/tk packages are supposed to go
03:29.49louipcwell my system tcl is in /usr but itcl, etc is all in the brlcad dir
03:30.23starseekerweird.  On my system it's in /usr/brlcad/lib/Tkhtml3.0
03:31.05louipcare you using a brlcad build tcl or system tcl?
03:31.12starseekerbrlcad build
03:31.46starseekerif you're using a system build (assuming that works, I haven't tried it) it would probably have to go where the system tcl/tk could find it
03:34.07starseekerunlike tkimg (don't know about the rest) we're building a "proper" tcl package that "package require" can find
03:34.57louipchmm so if it was installed in the brlcad directory you'd just have to add it to the path eh?
03:35.06starseekernot sure
03:35.31louipcor tcl's version of ld.so.conf
03:35.36starseekerin theory bwish could/should be aware of a brlcad specific location for things, I'm just not sure what it does
03:36.30starseekershould tackle the last issue for using system libs on gentoo and get that working so he can test properly
03:37.31louipc:D
03:38.22starseekerright now though, I'm trying to make sure all my new stuff isn't killing make distcheck
03:41.21louipcyeah this build system is kind of difficult to figure out
04:13.32yukonbobhi, cadheads
04:13.44starseekerhowdy
04:44.39*** join/#brlcad PrezKennnedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
04:58.42starseekerbrlcad:  Do I need to manually add the targets for the dvi portions to the Makefile.in in tkhtml3?
05:32.55brlcaddvi portions?
06:25.14*** join/#brlcad lol (n=48dbbdd4@bz.bzflag.bz)
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10:38.43claymoreYou guys stay up way tooo late ;)
10:43.05starseekerbrlcad:  Making dvi in tkhtml3
10:43.05starseekermake[4]: Entering directory `/home/cyapp/cadtoplevel/brlcad/brlcad/brlcad-7.13.0/_build/src/other/tkhtml3'
10:43.08starseekermake[4]: *** No rule to make target `dvi'.  Stop.
10:50.52Axman6claymore: 9:50pm is late?
10:54.52claymoreAxe: No, but 0136 is :)
10:55.55claymoreDoes anyone have experience with nVidia's CUDA tech?  
10:56.04clock_what is it supposed to be?
10:56.29claymoreJust by reading all the online reports/hype, it sounds awesome... but we all know how nVidia likes to toot their own horn.
10:56.51claymoreIts an API designed for utilizing nVidia GPUs as computational processors.
10:56.55clock_I don't like nvidia because of their proprietary approach to drivers.
10:57.37clock_can it be used in BRL-CAD?
10:58.17claymoreThere is no reason why it couldn't.... would probably be a pain to impliment though.  Although that is just a guess.
10:58.41clock_are you interested in it in because of BRL-CAD?
10:59.09claymorePartially work related, partially hobby related :)
11:00.18claymoreAll the benchmarks I have been seeing are comming in at 10-64x faster than a cpu.....
11:00.29clock_lol
11:00.33clock_so it can render 64x faster?
11:00.50clock_I would have use for that, Ronja compiles 1 week and most of it is video rendering time
11:01.00clock_OpenOffice is peanuts compared to that...
11:01.10claymorea GTX280 nVidia module clocks 64 Gflops while a 2.4GHz Opteron clocks 1.6 Gflops....lol
11:01.26clock_What is Opteron?
11:01.34clock_That's the new AMD CPU?
11:01.44claymoreAMD's server CPU...not really new
11:02.06clock_looks like the transistors inside must be substantially faster than the good ole 2N3904
11:02.30clock_probably don't have 272pF of base-emitter capacitance either ;-)
11:02.42claymorewell yeah, they are like 60nm big :)  not much substrait there.
11:02.53clock_the smaller the better
11:03.08clock_I hate dinosaur transistors which take half an hour just to charge their mammoth junction
11:03.08claymoresneeze wrong and you could forward bias a 60nm transistor ;)
11:03.15clock_;-)
11:03.31claymorelol.
11:04.03clock_I was designing a 16MHz amplifier and had to resort to 5GHz transistors because the slower ones were so slow...
11:04.20claymorewow.... CUDA can utilize as many GPUs as you have in your system.... *ponders*
11:05.06claymorewonders why clock was designing a 16MHz amp....
11:05.18clock_for my optical project
11:05.26clock_whose casing and holders ar desigend in brlcad
11:05.43claymorepersonal or professional project?
11:06.00clock_it has to have 100dB of gain, clip flawlessly and -3dB @16MHz
11:06.03clock_personal
11:06.15clock_but the performance is rather professional
11:06.28claymore'optical project' is pretty vague...
11:06.39clock_free space optics 10Mbps full duplex 1.4km
11:06.43clock_62nm or 875nm
11:06.47clock_62 -> 625
11:07.11clock_It's like fibre optics except there is no fibre
11:11.27claymoresorry, phone.
11:11.36claymoreso free space = out in the open air?
11:11.53clock_yes like openair just without the music
11:12.10claymoredo you have functional prototypes yet?
11:12.24clock_Far beyond that
11:12.30clock_there are 153 registered installations worldwide
11:12.42clock_But at the moment I have no complete functional prototype :)
11:12.53claymore.... confused....
11:13.10clock_well it's already in widespread use.
11:13.14claymoreif you don't have a prototype... how can there be installations?  Or are you reverse engineering an existing tech?
11:13.49clock_Because I left the prototype in the home of my parents where it was partially disassembled partially left on the roof and disconnected
11:14.08clock_it's a from-scratch development nothing to do with existing tech
11:14.20clock_It's built from peanut cans, rusty smoke flues and Chinese magnifying glasses
11:14.29claymoreAnd you have managed to sell this?
11:14.37clock_And can transmit DVD video realtime with 10_9 bit error rate
11:14.45clock_claymore: no I didn't even try to sell this
11:15.55claymoresounds pretty cool.  is the purpose to create a point to point network bridge?
11:16.06clock_yes with standard Ethernet interface
11:17.03clock_thanks
11:18.58claymoreand to make sure I get your benchmarks correct, you sustained 10Mbps over a 1.4km distance?
11:19.16clock_yes and full duplex
11:19.23clock_with 10^-9 bit error rate
11:20.13claymoreimpressive.  Whats the deltaPerformance over the range of weather types?
11:20.29clock_deltaPerformance?
11:20.35claymorechange in performance
11:20.58clock_It doesn't work in fog, works in haze rain and snow
11:21.16claymorecool.... no radiation hazard then?
11:21.19clock_works in -25degC and also when the sun is heating it in the summer so you can't hold hand on it
11:21.31clock_and also under frost buildup
11:22.13clock_Also once someone didn't seal the casing and the thing filled half with water so it was like aquarium and all the electronics was underwater but it still ran
11:22.19clock_But that's not a designed mode of operation
11:22.29claymorehaha nice.
11:22.36clock_I have a video of this aquarium
11:23.04clock_Here is the frozen one http://images.twibright.com/tns/381.html
11:23.18*** join/#brlcad cad30 (n=c8632bfe@bz.bzflag.bz)
11:23.29claymoreso the power required to bridge 1.4km doesn't require a laser powerful enough to pose a radiation hazard eh?
11:24.42clock_Here is the aquarium video http://ronja.twibright.com/failure/aquarium.avi
11:25.12clock_claymore: the power is 17mW, the 625nm is totally eye safe, the 875 you are not supposed to stare into it with binoculars from < 20 meters
11:25.32clock_According to Czech legislature. The individual national limits may of course vary.
11:25.45clock_It doesn't use a laser, but an LED
11:26.22claymorelaser/led.... radiation is radiation ;)
11:26.50clock_Here is the warning sign I made in Czech :) http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/warning.png
11:27.22elite01whoo, believe it or not, i heard of ronja before :)
11:28.06clock_elite01: from me boasting here in this channel?
11:28.21elite01noo quite a while ago
11:28.27clock_from Slashdot?
11:28.28elite01no idea how i stumbled upon it
11:28.30elite01nah
11:28.54elite01maybe because of links
11:28.59clock_hack-a-day? O'Reilly blog?
11:30.23elite01*shrug* i don't visit those sites often
11:51.08brlcadstarseeker: ah
11:52.33brlcadi'm not sure what that option actually means, when do you see it getting called?
11:53.06brlcadI mean, I don't see how you would have run into it since we don't have any dvi
11:55.08brlcadah, I see that the top-level distcheck calls it on the hierarchy
11:57.51brlcadooor, not on the hierarchy .. how'd you run into it again??
12:06.44brlcadaaand never mind, I see it's recursive
12:26.34*** join/#brlcad elite01_ (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
13:39.22*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@193.136.2.121)
13:39.39mafmhallo
13:43.25claymoreHai!
13:47.26starseekerwishes they would hurry up and deliver the firggin filing cabinet already
13:50.13brlcadhowdy
13:58.49claymorehands starseeker his Easy Button.
14:01.30starseeker<snort> I was about an inch away from being able to load the thing into my car this weekend
14:01.38mafmbrlcad: is my big fat commit of yesterday ok?
14:02.00starseekerbut noooo.  And this morning I get a call that it's been "shipped from the warehouse" whatever that means
14:03.22starseekerthey're supposed to deliver it, but it's not clear if they can leave it at the front desk or I have to sign for it
14:03.22starseekerI'm starting to regret not strapping it to the roof
14:04.04mafmstarseeker: lost in tansportation
14:04.26starseekerbrlcad:  Got another one missing - make check
14:04.32starseekerfakes up another one...
14:12.00brlcadnods
14:12.25brlcadstarseeker: if you look at the distcheck: rule in the top-level Makefile, you'll see all the recursive targets that get called
14:12.41starseekernods - trying that now
14:13.04starseekershould be getting fairly close to a clean distcheck
14:13.20starseekerdidn't realize just how badly he had torpedoed it
14:14.11brlcadhappens :)
14:14.44brlcadat least most of the problems are actually just simple build system integration tweaking
14:14.52starseekerTrue
14:15.01starseeker'cept for that sneaky tcl.m4 problem
14:19.45``Erikclock, your 'optar' was linked in a +5 slashdot comment a few days ago, didja see that?
14:20.02clock_``Erik: no. what does it mean +5?
14:20.11clock_what was it about?
14:20.30clock_Recently they posted some research centre was started to develop networking over light
14:20.34``Erikhttp://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1001009&cid=25438323
14:20.36clock_and someone posted a link to my Ronja page
14:22.39starseekeroptar looks cool
14:23.22starseekerneeds a good printer though, and things like dot based watermarking would tend to be a problem
14:24.08``Erikprobably why the 3x3 pixel cell size, no? :D
14:24.46starseekeryeah, that should get above all but the worst toner noise
14:25.15starseekeris reading
14:26.07starseekeralmost wants to take some pages printed out on this system to a notary just to see the reaction
14:28.28brlcadreminds me of work I did many years ago for Hopkins hospital, a DARPA project with unfortunately inept management
14:28.44``Erikwait, what?? inept mgmt in the DoD? no way!
14:28.51clock_I have some optar files
14:28.55clock_I recently wanted to print them
14:29.15clock_but the printer had bad mood and created huge vertical smudges of missing toner across the whole page
14:29.24starseekernods
14:29.28clock_A printer is not enough. Must be a printer which actually works.
14:29.43starseekerused to develop printer components, seen how bad some of the outputs can get
14:29.56brlcadto prove that our xray encryption was working and "secure" (which it was, AES before it was finalized), I took one of the xray films, scanned it, encrypted the data, and reprinted a new xray of the encrypted data
14:30.16brlcadwhich of course just looks like white noise, but printed up on xray film
14:30.19clock_starseeker: with output do you mean the actual design that comes out of the development deparment?
14:30.26starseekerbrlcad:  Cool :-)
14:30.36``Erikout of curiousity, does optar have the ability to work around, say, a tri-folded letter?
14:30.37brlcadstill has those films *somewhere*
14:30.56clock_``Erik: I don't know. I tried just a two-folded letter.
14:31.00starseekerclock_:  Nah, the test pages from developing physical hardware (my thing was Optical PhotoConductor drums)
14:31.11``Erikmeans 3 'panels', two folds
14:31.24starseekerworked on variety of common desktop and small business level printers
14:31.28clock_I actually tried one vertical and one horizontal fold
14:31.37clock_put the paper into the pocket of my jeans and took out
14:31.45``Erikthe ink damage from folding didn't adversly effect it?
14:31.52clock_yes it did
14:31.57clock_but that's why there are golay codes
14:32.20``Erik<-- imagines having gutters in the print format for folding would be the best approach on that
14:33.01claymorejust heard forests around the world scream in terror.
14:33.08clock_A friend helped me on Ronja project
14:33.12``Erikheh
14:33.21clock_he wa clever he backed up his work on CD for the case the hard disk failed
14:33.21starseekerclock_:  Hmm, looks like the view_vc links aren't working
14:33.27clock_The hard disk actually failed in 2 weeks
14:33.33clock_So he took the CD and realized he cannot read it
14:34.02clock_That's why I made optar. I don't fold my prints. I put them into a transparent foil and file them with contracts etc.
14:34.13clock_starseeker: there is more things not working
14:34.14``Erikwell, claymore, if someone in the US writes crypto with more than 128 bits in the key, it cannot be legally distributed to anyone outside the US electronically. but it CAN be printed and sent
14:34.28clock_with optar?
14:34.41``Erikthat's why all the cool crypto stuff is coming from like israel and germany and shit
14:35.30clock_free speech in the C language, that's not implemented in the US?
14:35.34``Erik(iirc, it was 56, and clin-ton upped it to 128, but anyone who doesn't suck uses at least 1024)
14:35.37clock_What does the onstitution say?
14:35.48clock_Bill Cliton?
14:36.18claymorestares at his joke, lying on the floor, beaten to death by Erik, who obviously mistook it for something else.....
14:36.23starseekerclock_:  The tarball from the website has two bad links in it - font.h and golay.svg
14:36.37clock_starseeker: I already have this bugreport in the pipeline
14:36.42starseekerok
14:36.48clock_Now I am going to add the one with viewvc
14:36.53clock_for this I have to send myself an e-mail reminder
14:37.01clock_for this I have to login into the e-mail system of my provider
14:37.15``Eriksorry, I don't wake up until 5:30-6 pm
14:37.19clock_but this e-mail system is running in Java and takes about 10 minutes to react to the "login" button
14:37.22clock_So patience please
14:37.37``Erikthe vacuum tubes in my humor circuits are still cold :D
14:37.45clock_If they don't return 501 Internal Server Error, or the login page again, your report might actually get filed.
14:38.00clock_Oh I broke through already into the write e-mail page
14:38.20clock_But when I click write e-mail it shows a page "thank you for logging off"
14:38.22clock_Well - Java.
14:38.53starseekerclaymore:  We need an open source humor detector bot :-)
14:39.27claymorewell the Geekdar just caught on fire, lemme put it out ;)
14:39.50clock_after trying 3 times finally succeeded to get into the write e-mail page
14:40.21clock_OK filed successfully
14:40.30clock_now wait about 10 years and I might actually get to it
14:41.30starseekerthe golay.svg file can be gotten from the website, it's the missing font.h that's the problem
14:42.11starseekerlikes neat archiving ideas
14:42.12clock_doesn't remember anything anymore
14:42.44``Erik'cept paper for archiving may not be good these days, most paper is acid washed and deteriorates quickly in a decade or two
14:42.54clock_I am now realizing the best way how to get a surge of popularity is put deadlinks on the website
14:43.05starseekerclaymore:  I'm surprised it isn't on continual burnout where we work ;-)
14:43.12``Eriktufte has one of his usual tufte-esque rants on the topic, and pays out the butt to get his books printed on "good" paper
14:43.19clock_``Erik: sometimes I get receipts from a cash desk which are completely white after 2 weeks
14:43.40clock_I wonder if it's legal to give out purchase proofs like these
14:43.55``Erikink deterioration is one thing, I have 10 year old papers that are crumbling :/
14:44.02starseeker``Erik:  Yeah, durable paper is expensive
14:44.25clock_Well you can at least tell when it's crumbling and re-scan
14:44.32starseekerIBM (I think) has some nifty stuff that is really hard to rip, not sure about it's long term storage
14:44.46``Erikif you want text to stick around for a while, grab a hammer and chisel and find some marble :D
14:44.49clock_But can you look at a hard disk and say "shit I see the bits flipping, I should copy it to another one"?
14:45.07clock_``Erik: marbles are subject to deswtruction by interplanetary impacts
14:45.27starseekerwait, might have been Xerox
14:45.37``Erikyeah, and everything is subject to destruction by universe heat death *shrug*
14:45.40starseekeryeah, marble sucks - go granite
14:45.46clock_;-)
14:46.04starseekeror those plastic bottles everyone claims will be around for 1 million years
14:46.09clock_load the granite into a dot matrix printer and print optar 1000 times without the ribbon :)
14:46.12``Erikmarble and even pottery has done a good job for 2-3k years
14:46.44``Erikthe languages die/mutate a lot faster than the medium :)
14:47.06clock_good to have a medium which lasts 500 years when the civilization will obviously destroy itself in 100 years anyway :()
14:47.25``Erikwhich civilization?
14:47.33clock_well don't store the data itself
14:47.53clock_assume that in 1000 years the archaelogy will be so advanced they will be able to tell what you've been thinking just from your ashes
14:47.56``Erikonly one of the original 7 still exists, civilizations come and go, and are not a singleton :D
14:49.32clock_I am sure in 1000 years people will be able to travel in time and extend their lifespan, but they will still not be able to make a reliable electrical connector.
14:50.22clock_``Erik: which are the remaining 6 ones?
14:50.38claymoreclock: assuming electricity will still be in use then ;)
14:50.56starseekerAh, there it is - Xerox DuraPaper:  http://www.rechargermag.com/articles/37709/
14:52.52starseekeror I guess now it's DuraDocument paper
14:54.17clock_What's the point in storing data?
14:54.25clock_Who is interested in the tons of information?
14:54.35starseekerfuture historians
14:54.47starseekerwe have to make sure they can get to all those youtube videos
14:55.01starseekerit will explain why our civilization collapsed
14:55.18clock_because all of the earth mass was converted into iPods
14:55.40claymorethey will also need to know who Jenna Jameson was ;)
14:55.58clock_I am gay so I don't know the names of the current female porn stars.
14:56.34clock_Also the list of patents so they know what all they are not allowed to invent
14:56.45starseekerOnce we can put out a new BRL-CAD manual, it'd be fun to have a copy printed on this super paper :-)
14:56.59clock_in optar format all on one page :)
14:57.13brlcadit's more than 200k :)
14:57.20clock_BRL-CAD: extermely simple UI: all the manual fits on 1 page :)
14:57.24clock_brlcad: how many K?
14:57.33clock_Maybe "The whole manual fits on just 10 pages"?
14:57.52brlcadmaybe compressed
14:58.28*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5B14D969.dip.t-dialin.net)
15:00.23starseekerif it's pdf, and we agglomerate everything into one big book... that's a lotta megs, even compressed.  Good quality raytraced images are big
15:01.04brlcadthe text looks like it's about 1158714 chars in docbook and text format .. images are the big ones
15:02.41brlcadgets on the road
15:02.59brlcad``Erik: probably not till noon now :/
15:04.50clock_In 1000 years we will be able to back up the whole Universe on a USB stick
15:04.59clock_But this stick will lose all it's data in 10 seconds
15:05.21clock_And consumer warranty will be only 5 seconds.
15:06.51starseekerheh - the quantum USB stick - you delete what's stored on it by trying to read it
15:08.26claymorehow about the precog USB stick:  It copies/creates what data you want on it before you do.
15:11.18clock_quantum USB stick: there is nothing on the stick, random data are created at the time you attempt to read them
15:15.54claymoreMatrix USB Stick:  There is no USB Stick.
15:16.53clock_You take the blue pill you read 1
15:17.00clock_you take the red one you read zero
15:17.07clock_You can freely decide what you are going to read
15:17.39clock_Chinese USB stick: it is a stick, but it's actually not USB.
15:18.03clock_Q: what's the difference between a wooden stick and Chinese USB stick?
15:18.11clock_A: the wooden stick is more USB-compliant
15:18.25louipcbrlcad: why are there so many darned aliases for the config options?
15:19.19claymorescolds louipc for being on topic.
15:35.33``Erikcrap, I gotta look that up, heh
15:35.36``Erikand he left
15:48.37starseekerarrrrrrgh - tkhtml3 just does not want to play the distcheck game
16:12.10starseekerbrlcad:  Is there something about putting directories in EXTRA_DIST that messes with make distcheck?  I'm getting errors about their removal
16:47.01mafmI go home, c'ya
16:57.07louipccya
18:14.42brlcadlouipc: because I can never remember (and hate having to remember) whether it's --enable-optimize --enable-optimized and --disable-debug --disable-debugging etc
18:14.58brlcadnobody has to use them, they're only defined for convenience (and don't show up in help)
18:23.29*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-76-112.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:36.51louipcah I figured it would be easier to remember if it was only one or two aliases
18:37.07louipcerr one alias rather
18:47.33brlcadthe aliases also help catch mistakes .. since configure has no way of reporting "unrecognized option" by default
20:04.59*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5B14D969.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:11.22``Erikthinks he'll leave his windows machine blue-screened until the admins notice it :D
20:45.07brlcadheh
20:45.53brlcadcalls a dozen liquor places and is amazed at how many different languages other than english everyone seems to know
20:46.08brlcadat least finally found what I was looking for though
20:46.29*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
20:59.29starseekerout of source build, not doing make distcheck succeeded
21:00.00brlcadwhere'd it put the tkhtml3 object files?
21:00.07brlcadsource dir or build dir
21:00.46starseekerbuild dir
21:00.57starseekeris rerunning make distcheck now
21:05.38starseekerbrlcad:  Is this the first time we're hooking in something without any Makefile.am?
21:05.51brlcadnope
21:06.01brlcadwell, sorta yes/no
21:06.07starseekerheh
21:06.46brlcadtcl/tk's been hooked in without a makefile.am before and sorta still is (though there is the one wrapper)
21:07.32brlcadthey also don't use automake for their build so their subconfigure and the traversal into their dir is similarly non-conformant with automake
21:08.05starseekerok
21:28.30starseeker????? With a fresh checkout, now I'm getting the Permission denied errors
21:35.53starseekerhttp://paste.bzflag.bz/d396b020d
21:37.00starseekerbrlcad:  stocks dove
21:37.58*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
21:39.36``Eriknifty
21:54.59``Erikboos at common lisp some
21:55.05``Erik<PROTECTED>
22:04.55*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=Ralith@216.162.199.202)
22:21.44louipcthe smallest one?
22:30.46brlcadthat looks like english to me
22:55.46``Erik(format nil "~r" 532144321321)
22:55.46``Erik"five hundred thirty-two billion one hundred forty-four million three hundred twenty-one thousand three hundred twenty-one"
22:56.13``Erikneat stuff, but unable to cope with BIG numbers
22:56.32brlcadme too
22:56.52``Erikhuh, it doesn't seem to handle complex numbers, either :( scheme does
22:57.02brlcadpatch it up!
22:57.33``Erikbut it's a lot easier to sit around and bitch! :D
23:24.30PrezKennnedybrlcad, i drove for the first time on the highway today
23:24.33PrezKennnedygot it up to 60
23:24.57brlcadwoot
23:25.09brlcadand the 'need for speed' begins....
23:25.47PrezKennnedyno casualties, no fatalities!
23:29.10``Erikthen ur doin' it rong
23:29.11``Erik:D
23:29.26PrezKennnedy:D
23:29.45PrezKennnedytold the coworkers that if i go out... im going to do it with style
23:29.58PrezKennnedysomehow land the car on the roof of the building or something
23:30.45``Erikon the roof? lame, get it to stand up on the nose, ontop of a flagpole
23:30.55``Erikthat'd be worth some points
23:31.15``Erik"freestyle Xtreme"
23:31.48PrezKennnedyits the tallest building in the area... getting the car on the roof would be pretty amazing since nothing is highe
23:31.51PrezKennnedy*higher
23:33.41PrezKennnedyi had lots of practice in burnout though...
23:33.53``Erikthat's where the freestyle xtreme part comes in, you gotta hit the half-pipe just right and not botch it :D
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081023

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081023

00:42.16starseekeris scared - ``Erik is giving xtreme driving lessons?
00:52.53``Erikuh huh :D I've done the upside down thing, it's overrated
01:00.14punkrockgirl:(
01:17.02``Erik"is that your camouflage reflex, or are you just happy to see me?" heh
01:46.23*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:09.44starseekerHmm, cancer fighting beer.
02:09.55starseekerthinks brlcad will need cancer fighting scotch
02:25.05*** join/#brlcad geocalc (n=geocalc@91-171-193-121.rev.libertysurf.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
02:25.05*** join/#brlcad elmom (n=elmom@hoasnet-ff04dd00-187.dhcp.inet.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
02:29.47*** join/#brlcad geocalc (n=geocalc@91-171-193-121.rev.libertysurf.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
02:29.47*** join/#brlcad elmom (n=elmom@hoasnet-ff04dd00-187.dhcp.inet.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
02:40.08*** join/#brlcad cad41 (n=7d5bfdef@bz.bzflag.bz)
03:12.16brlcadstarseeker: heh, it's called milk thistle
03:12.23brlcad(which I do take) ;)
04:23.26*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
04:35.18starseekerbrlcad:  make distcheck may work now
04:35.27starseekersucceeded on my Gentoo box
05:42.56*** join/#brlcad Ralith_ (n=Ralith@216.162.199.202)
05:46.48*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-88-19.dclient.hispeed.ch)
05:59.43brlcadstarseeker: cool
05:59.48brlcadwill test on the road ;)
07:06.05*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:34.49CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33045 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/books/tutorial_series/Makefile.am: Add book_authors.xml to EXTRA_DIST
07:39.13CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33046 10/brlcad/trunk/ (187 files in 2 dirs): Cannot safely access the ged_result_str member of "struct ged" without first checking to see if it's null. Added calls to bu_vls_trunc in some of the ged macros.
07:39.41CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33047 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkhtml3/Makefile.in: Add a few more targets to tkhtml3 to try and be compatible with toplevel make
07:58.44CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33048 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/ (Makefile.am tkhtml3/Makefile.in): Give tkhtml3 a distdir target. This allows brlcad to pass the make distcheck test on Gentoo linux.
08:09.06clock_Do you check all 500 Linux distributions if brlcad passes the make distcheck on them?
08:25.21*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@cl-213.dus-01.de.sixxs.net)
10:07.23*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
10:15.59brlcadclock_: nope
10:16.22clock_how do you select those which you test, then?
10:16.42clock_hopes brlcad tests on Linux From Scratch
10:19.56brlcadusually based on what is immediately available
10:21.24brlcadit's not like there are drastic differences from flavor to flavor wrt compilation environment, much more important to hit up a variety of OS
10:21.41brlcadthen it's much more likely to work in more places automatically
10:22.40brlcadthat's the whole point of the gbs, so you don't *have* to check 500 variants manually -- that'd suck in many ways and be incredibly inefficient
10:23.19clock_what is gbs?
10:23.25brlcadpacks it up the lappy and hopes to avoid rush hour traffic
10:23.31brlcad~gbs
10:23.32iboti heard gbs is the GNU Build System, aka the Autotools, aka the suite of tools frequently used on UNIX and UNIX-like platforms that utilize the GNU Autoconf, Automake, and Libtool build tools.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_build_system for more details.
10:25.19clock_Aha GNU Autobreak
10:33.18claymoreMorning all.... or is it night for some? ;)
10:39.20claymoreHave a safe trip Erik and BRLCAD!!
10:49.15brlcadthanks tanderson
10:49.19brlcader, AFK-claymore
10:49.33brlcaddetaches
11:41.58tanderson*ahem* :)
11:42.10tandersonwhat'd I help you with now? :)
12:07.18*** join/#brlcad elmom_ (n=elmom@hoasnet-ff04dd00-187.dhcp.inet.fi)
12:36.59*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
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14:14.19clock_5
14:37.28*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5B14C907.dip.t-dialin.net)
15:36.14*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet-45-219.dorm.utexas.edu)
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17:11.07CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33049 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/bot_dump.c: Fixed a typo.
17:21.28*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
17:49.08starseekermake distcheck passes on the Mac
18:20.43*** join/#brlcad PrezKennnedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
19:05.40*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5B14C907.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:43.32louipc~wrt
19:43.32ibotsomebody said wrt was with respect to, or with regards to, or the Linksys WRT54G on which some people have successfully installed Asterisk. More information at http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-Asterisk+Linksys+WRT54G
21:15.08*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
21:32.58*** join/#brlcad thilo_ (n=thilo@p5B3D2563.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
21:33.37thilo_anyone using open cascade? or can you recommend a better channel to ask about its installation?
21:33.52thilo_all help that i find mentions the file OpenCascade_Linux.tgz
21:34.00thilo_but on the download page i only find OpenCascade_src.tgz
21:34.10thilo_where do i find OpenCascade_Linux.tgz?
21:35.36louipcno idea
23:32.21*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5B14FEC3.dip.t-dialin.net)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081024

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081024

00:56.56*** join/#brlcad Axman6_ (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
01:38.57*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet-45-219.dorm.utexas.edu)
02:09.27brlcadhowdy pacman87
02:09.42brlcadstarseeker: it doesn't fully pass but nice work fixing the hard problems :)
02:09.43pacman87hi
02:10.01brlcadlooks like everything related to tkhtml3 is passing now, though, so life is good
02:19.28*** join/#brlcad ``Erik_ (n=erik@bz.bzflag.bz)
02:21.33brlcadwaves across the pool
02:21.43``Erik_*wave*
02:21.54``Erik_knew I closed the blinds for a reason O.o
02:25.22``Erik_1.75l, I pheer
02:31.21brlcadmmmm
02:37.17starseekerbrlcad:  What's still busted?
02:40.14``Erik_all of it, why'd you bust it up, dude?
02:40.24brlcadnot busted, just a few loose ends
02:40.39``Erik_ponders walking to the front desk to inquire about orange juice
02:40.52starseekerhow goes the other side of the country?
02:50.02``Erik_a little west
03:03.13yukonbobhello, cadhedas
03:03.16yukonbob*cadheads
03:09.07``Erik_huh, orange juice
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03:25.22punkrockgirlstop it, i'm jealous
03:29.42``Erik_of cadheads? O.o
03:31.52punkrockgirlof oj
03:31.55punkrockgirland the stuff in it
03:31.56punkrockgirl:P
03:36.19``Erik_probably like $50 worth of crap heh, ~200 people, but most I imagine are shared rooms, so like, uh, ~5k on booze and nuts O.o crazy :D must be nice to have a massive expense account
03:37.03``Erik_way more on the hotel rooms, though :) heh
03:37.20``Erik_doesn't wana know the final cost of this summit
03:46.10punkrockgirlcool
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03:46.17punkrockgirli wanna go do something cool
03:47.42``Erik_meh, so go to a honeywell space camp or something
03:47.46``Erik_*duck* *run*
03:48.04punkrockgirloh
03:48.08punkrockgirlheh
03:48.12punkrockgirlgood point :(
03:48.21punkrockgirli suck
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04:27.10``Erik_bleh
04:30.47``Erik_Patrick Warburton has a very distinct vocal style
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16:57.16starseekerbegins to see why the g_qa units were local - libbu is length only in the unit department
16:59.27starseekerstarts working on an expansion...
16:59.42starseekerthis simply won't do...
17:11.31CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33050 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/units.c:
17:11.31CIA-24BRL-CAD: Change the internal name of the unit table to reflect that it is length only -
17:11.31CIA-24BRL-CAD: other tables will be added so the 'unspoken assumption' that everything is
17:11.31CIA-24BRL-CAD: length will no longer hold. Can't do this (yet) for externally visible
17:11.31CIA-24BRL-CAD: functions but at least internally it should help avoid confusion.
17:39.11starseekerbrlcad:  Where are we getting these conversion factors, by the way?  They should be cited - correctness of these factors is a big deal because having to change them could invalidate who knows how many results.
17:39.43starseekerbrlcad:  In particular, I'm wondering about the conversion of grains to grams (although all should be audited)
17:40.25starseekerknows there are standards the officially define these units and NIST has some useful literature as well
17:41.09``Erik_hrm, when I got to my hotel room, there was a 1.75l bottle of vodka, a six pack of beer, and a dude showed up with cold orange juice... assuming brlcad received the same ... "gift basket", I'm rather surprised he's not floating face down in the pool right now, but unsurprised he's not responding... :D
17:41.30starseekercreating a proper units and dimensions package for a CAS system actually was what interested me in Axiom instead of Maxima, and is still one of my primary long term goals for CAS, so I'm probably a bit "geeky" on this topic...
17:41.44starseekerah :-)
17:42.02``Erik_I know our distance measurement, by default, is mm, and we like kg
17:42.14starseekeryes, but grams is the default in g_qa
17:42.21starseekerkg is actually the SI standard
17:42.21``Erik_volumes are usually internally kept as cubic mm
17:42.28starseekerright
17:42.50``Erik_the in/mm conversion goes back to the early 80's I believe
17:42.52starseekerthe pivot unit isn't so critical - it's the definitions of other units in terms of that pivot unit that become critical
17:43.27``Erik_old s2 folk like to think of pixels as 4"x4" projections, new ones like to see 100mmX100mm projections
17:43.33starseekercan't believe his single biggest interest in the CAS world has suddenly become job related
17:44.22``Erik_personally, I'd default holding formats to strict SI (despite the frenchness) and use a library (there are plenty) for conversions
17:44.24``Erik_*shrug*
17:44.46starseekererm - libbu has a conversion routine
17:44.59starseekerhadn't considered ripping out the whole thing and replacing with an external lib
17:46.07``Erik_what's the java one the m3 guys are using? it had a few aspects where I went "holy crap... that's important", but they threw those away
17:46.31``Erik_like it carried translation error with the value, and propogated it correctly through the math
17:46.41starseekerJava Units of measure?
17:46.53starseekerIt's LGPL at least
17:46.55``Erik_no, it was something stupid
17:47.02``Erik_unless something stupid renamed itself to that
17:47.06starseekergrumbles at all the C ones being GPL
17:47.18``Erik_carrying error with computation was zomfg holy crap awesome, I thought, but it was thrown away
17:47.25starseekerthat is impressive
17:47.28``Erik_or, deviance, rather
17:47.45``Erik_big performance hit, but *shrug* neglegible compared to other performance issues
17:47.48starseekercorrect handling of that issue is very nearly a research topic
17:48.03``Erik_pessemistic bounding, not perfect bounding
17:48.15``Erik_like jscience or something
17:48.17``Erik_this is bugging me
17:48.21starseekerOoo, a BSD licensed one
17:49.30``Erik_are you in the office?
17:49.30starseekeryep
17:49.30``Erik_jra knows the grim details of what I'm talking about
17:49.47``Erik_I'd like to remember the naem of it, but I can't shell into one of those machines and do not carry a co with me :(
17:52.30starseekeryou had it - jscience
17:52.53``Erik_aight, it carries ranges of values instead of "a value"
17:53.16``Erik_for high energy physics, that seems zomfg critical to me
17:55.06starseekerHmm - units.sourceforge.net
17:56.54starseekerpity NIST doesn't have their own conversion library
17:57.07``Erik_I bet they do, somewhere
17:57.52``Erik_I ran across a trivial scheme conversion library that was more flexible than the unix "units" program, neat shizzlenitz
17:58.36``Erik_(one thing that drives me up the wall with 'units', I can't convert between C and F, or F and K... temperature measurement is valid, damnit!)
17:59.43starseekerindeed
18:00.31starseeker``Erik:  Do you think it would be worth it to hook in an external units conversion library?
18:00.40starseekerOr, more to the point, would brlcad think so?
18:00.59``Erik_I might be a little excessive on that one, though... for mebbe 5 years, I ran a program that scraped temperature data on many zip codes hourly to plot, and I used to convert all measurements to kelvin when I was homebrewing :)
18:01.06``Erik_um, depends on the size of it
18:01.30``Erik_obviously, it's not something you'd expect in libc, so brlcad will push for inclusion in src/other/
18:01.50``Erik_and I'll push for minimizing size and inode count :D so somewhere will be a balance
18:02.43starseekerHmm, Mayo Foundation - is that related to the mayo clinic folks I wonder?
18:03.40starseekerHmm, his email was at one point at the mayo clinic
18:03.43starseekerinteresting
18:06.36starseekerhuh - darned if it doesn't provide a TCL units interface
18:07.00starseekerok, ok...
18:07.06starseekerdownloads to check out
18:07.15starseekerlet's see how big it is
18:10.50starseeker``Erik:  More important even than the size though - this would be a major expansion and even a bit of reworking of how BRL-CAD deals with units.  Definitely an improvement, but also definitely a change - does anybody outside of BRL-CAD use our current unit functionality?
18:12.51starseeker``Erik:  size of an uncompressed tar is 510KB
18:14.31starseekerusing TEAfor building
18:14.41starseekerer TEA for
18:20.59starseekerhmm, pity - it's tcl doesn't call the c side
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20:27.15brlcadstarseeker: check the commit log on the file, they may be cited there
20:36.55brlcadconversion lib is fine, though our conversion needs are very trivial at this point so I'd be hesitant for using a dep until there was some feature added
20:37.23brlcadcleaning up g_qa by itself would be pretty marginal (as it wouldn't really change, it'd just get rid of the table)
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20:47.30brlcaddoes not understand starseeker's comment to 1677383
20:47.54starseekerbrlcad:  um, sorry.
20:47.56starseekerrereads
20:48.45starseekerLee implemented dbfindempty as a tcl command
20:48.55starseekershould it be integrated into MGED?
20:50.01starseekerif not, dwayne seems to be satisifed.  In addition, the search command can also find totally empty combinations (although it doesn't have the dbfindempty ability to find combs with only 1 or only 2 nodes)
20:50.55starseekerI guess I'm wondering what needs to happen that hasn't already happened to be able to close that request
20:53.08starseekerbrlcad:  re - unit conversions;  No problem with waiting, what I can do for now is move the g_qa tables into libbu, add a couple more general calls to access them (that will also be able to pass requests to a more general library behind the hood if we want to do that in the future)
20:53.29starseekerand then tweak g_qa to use the new libbu calls instead of its internal code
20:58.17brlcadstarseeker: the trackers are totally your domain, so you can decide if it's sufficient, rejectable, inadequate, etc
20:58.50starseekerOK.  I just didn't know if there was some reason dbfindempty wasn't in MGED - a.k.a Lee not wanting it in
20:58.53brlcadI think search completely superceeds a "dbfindempty" command and would reject that patch
20:59.12brlcadnah, it was probably just level of effort
21:00.32brlcadit technically probably belongs as a patch submission once the attachments were added, but pettty at this point since he's also a dev also acting like a user
21:00.44starseekerLooking at the tcl, there is an option to match if the number of elements in a comb matchs a number - is that useful enough to be worth adding to search?
21:01.41starseekerdoesn't think it belongs in an empty option - maybe empty could be replaced by a "number of nodes in comb" and "number of nodes in subtree" sort of system...
21:01.41brlcadthat would have been a way to generalize your -empty option
21:02.00brlcadexactly
21:02.41starseekervim's up the search code and hopes he doesn't need yet another tree walker...
21:03.59starseekermust protest the g_qa code grouping mass and weight - that's dimensionally flat out wrong
21:04.20brlcadfix it!
21:04.34starseekerOK :-)
21:04.40``Erik_is it fixed yet?
21:04.45CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33051 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/avs.c: make initializaiton order match declaration order
21:04.51starseekerhopes he isn't breaking someone's analysis code...
21:05.00``Erik_crosses his arms and taps his foot
21:05.02``Erik_why isn't it fixed yet?
21:05.10starseekerfinite typing speed
21:05.38``Erik_signs starseeker up for the neural jack surgury
21:06.11``Erik_(just remember... never EVER core dump while you're jacked in)
21:07.16CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33052 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: ws
21:08.56CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33053 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h:
21:08.56CIA-24BRL-CAD: fix an initialization bug in RT_INIT_DB_INTERNAL that was causing a crash if you
21:08.56CIA-24BRL-CAD: initialized a rt_db_internal, never use it, but then try to release it. the
21:08.56CIA-24BRL-CAD: idb_meth wasn't being initialized causing the callback to crash on randomly
21:08.56CIA-24BRL-CAD: initialized values that were not a valid callback.
21:12.27starseekerHow's the GSOC thing going?
21:12.48brlcaddoesn't really start until tomorrow, dinner tonight
21:14.25``Erik_if it was goin', do ya think we'd be talkin' here? :D
21:16.44starseekerfair enough
21:17.01starseekerbrlcad:  What's a good "clean" way to get a count on the number of nodes in a combination?
21:18.08starseekerdo we have a pre-defined function?
21:18.42brlcadmm, that just counts? doubt it but I think you can just walk over a bu_list and count if you have a COMB
21:21.58``Erik_that smells like a loaded question
21:22.07``Erik_(similar to a loaded diaper, but scarier)
21:22.26``Erik_is a comb the compacted human variant, or the binary internal variant?
21:22.58starseekerwhat?
21:23.06``Erik_last I checked, a simple union comb of 4 primitives is at least 7 nodes
21:23.28``Erik_if you include both terminal and nonterminal
21:24.24``Erik_include/raytrace.h around line 1073 is the gorey detail bit
21:25.30``Erik_count(union(n)) >= n*log_{2}n where n is the number of primitives, or something
21:25.54starseekerOh, I get was Lee was up to - since it's a binary tree you can only have 0, 1 or 2 children per the data structure
21:26.00brlcadged_list_children()
21:26.25starseekerwould expect something else from a node count on a geometry tree
21:26.30brlcadah, so there is already:  db_tree_nleaves
21:26.36brlcad(librt)
21:26.49``Erik_internel representation is a simple binary tree, but it's exposed as an n-ary tree to the user :/
21:27.02brlcadthat's why the docs need to be in the freaking headers so I can find that shtuff easier
21:27.27starseekerbrlcad:  Thank you for finding it!
21:27.44``Erik_so just terminal nodes, then :D
21:27.45starseekerwouuld have felt so dumb writing his own...
21:28.37starseekererm, this one stops at regions though..
21:28.41starseekercrud
21:28.43``Erik_thinks we have too many already, someone needs to generisize and collapse existing functions and put in minor specialization stubs for compatability :/
21:29.11brlcadit's actually an acyclic graph that can be munged to binary or non-binary depending on where in the api
21:29.28``Erik_we need cl loop equivelant for our trees :D
21:29.45``Erik_and yes, my spelling sucks.
21:29.52``Erik_equivalent
21:29.55starseekerwonders if the time has come to hit the tree walkers
21:30.31``Erik_how is richards procdb coming?
21:30.59starseekerstill early days
21:31.08``Erik_hm
21:32.12``Erik_<-- tried to get him to consider an easier procdb to cut his teeth on, but he's in a 'marching orders' mentality :/
21:32.34starseekerfrom whom?  me or brlcad?
21:32.36brlcadmm, daniel and jeff are here
21:32.59``Erik_4 hours until the dinner thing
21:33.12brlcader, isn't it in an hour?
21:33.22brlcadoh craptastic.. I'm looking at edt time
21:33.24``Erik_um, no? 1830 pst
21:33.25brlcadsweet
21:33.30``Erik_and it's 1433
21:33.39brlcadyeah, my clock says 1734
21:33.47brlcadthought it felt damn early :)
21:33.48starseekerheh
21:34.16brlcadstarseeker: you hook ed up?
21:34.19``Erik_I updated my laptops clock, so'z I have both pst and est on my screen (courtesy BX, a *REAL* irc client, unlike that wussy irssi crap)
21:34.20brlcad(lists)
21:34.27starseekerbrlcad: yep
21:34.33starseekerhe's on dev and commits
21:34.38brlcadsaw
21:34.45brlcadnot news?
21:34.48starseekerprobably should get him on user and news too
21:34.57``Erik_so we can't badmouth him in our commit -m '' messages anymore? :(
21:35.13starseeker``Erik_:depends on if  he reads 'em or not
21:35.55brlcadgot 2/3rds of the points primitive update working on the plane.. should .. finish
21:36.18``Erik_so much for napping before the dinner?
21:38.27``Erik_fer some reason, when ya said that dawn and kurt/kirk/whatever were downstairs, I somehow thought they were bz people :D heh
21:39.26brlcaddonna and kirk
21:39.31brlcadthey are bz people
21:39.51``Erik_I was asking how the bzflag gsoc went when you were showering heh :D </doof>
21:40.08``Erik_nice folk, dealing with pretty interesting stuff
21:40.22brlcadah, yeah -- not gsocers
21:41.04brlcadit's really bad that my brain has shifted context.. i need to study up on what all we did for both so I can actually hold a f'ing conversation about it
21:41.15brlcadsince this is sorta requisite or at least really useful this weekend
21:41.45``Erik_firing braincells are the critical aspect, other people can remember the history for ya :D you weren't a mentor per se
21:43.37starseekerbrlcad:  Is OP_REGION a unary operator?
21:44.08starseekeror rather, does its presence indicate a left subtree?
21:45.10brlcad``Erik_: naw, it's still my job to know what everyone did, just not the details
21:45.15``Erik_ah, cliff, I figured out what was confusing me with the macro thing. The example code had a defun with soft quoting that was called from the macro.
21:45.28brlcadat least should be able to say what folks were working on what
21:45.32``Erik_we did things. And stuff. And it was good.
21:45.40starseeker``Erik_:  nicely done
21:45.41``Erik_then, on the 7th week, we rested.
21:45.42brlcadstarseeker: dunno really, use the source luke :)
21:45.51starseekerbrlcad:  OK :-)
21:45.59starseekerjust checking for a shortcut
21:46.33``Erik_(would've been the 7th day, but we created slashdot, collegehumor, and icanhascheezburger on the first day. Woops.)
21:46.56starseekerassumed those were the work of "somone else"
21:47.19``Erik_geekisis 10:12
21:47.40``Erik_And it was goodish. Ramen.
21:48.00starseekerThe ed 1.0 version or the Church of Emacs revival edition?
21:49.14``Erik_just random blabbering, now with extra blasphemy
21:49.14brlcad``Erik_: oh, I found out why he attacked -- said it was just to generate debris for a newb he was trying to help, otherwise that he woulda been nuts to attack a 16 CC without levis
21:49.14``Erik_heh, so gank his newb friend :D fighters do an ugly job on cyclers
21:49.46``Erik_use astroempiresextras to time your fighter pops to exist at like :28 or :29, jack his cyclers as hard as you can just before the tick
21:50.09``Erik_a recycler needs 3 ticks to pay for itself
21:50.39brlcadI thought about it .. his friend only has 25 cyclers :)
21:50.56brlcadlvl 13
21:50.57``Erik_you can't kill the tiger, so try to taste like shit :D
21:51.24``Erik_(is that sun tzu? :D )
21:52.47brlcadstarseeker: another way to find stuff .. think of an mged command that does what you're thinking and look what it does
21:55.31starseekernods
21:56.22starseekerLee used llength in his tcl command, but I'm being more stubborn - I want to count the way a BRL-CAD user would expect
22:01.06``Erik_notes that one must take every commands implementation with a grain of salt... it may be a crude hack instead of "right"
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22:12.43``Erik_dude, that restaurant is not walking distance
22:12.59``Erik_it's way up by moffett
22:13.41``Erik_6.1 miles as the google flies
22:16.28CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33054 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/units.c: Add in two of g_qa's unit tables. Need to add a 3rd for weights, which are not the same as mass
22:17.34``Erik_if you're gonna be like that, only record mass and then record gravity in the scene to compute weight O.o :>
22:17.56``Erik_many tools use mass and weight interchangably (incorrect, but 'close enough' for ground vehicles)
22:17.56starseekernot a bad idea
22:18.11``Erik_naturally, you should talk about point gravity, so you can compute tidal force
22:18.12``Erik_*cough*
22:18.34``Erik_full integral gravity would be a bit excessive, though :D
22:18.36starseekerrefuses to use mass and weight interchangably
22:18.43starseekerheh
22:18.56``Erik_the customer does it, and we like to get paychecks at the end of the day :(
22:18.57brlcadstarseeker: llength is a tcl command .. he's counting the list of something -- you'd have to look at what he used to get the list he was counting
22:19.13brlcad``Erik_: it is? okay
22:19.15starseekernods
22:19.48starseeker``Erik_:  where do they do it?
22:19.49``Erik_http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=910+E+Fremont+Ave,+Sunnyvale,+CA+94087+(Wild+Palms+Hotel)&daddr=174+castro+st&hl=en&geocode=CcOzhSoacpGzFfnvOQIdyTi6-CFKCwVYHFXddA%3B&mra=pe&mrcr=0&sll=37.380798,-122.046089&sspn=0.052925,0.105228&ie=UTF8&ll=37.373022,-122.061195&spn=0.105861,0.210457&z=13
22:20.35``Erik_the analysts? just look at rtweight
22:21.43``Erik_stuff like http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2004-06/rods-god might change that, though
22:22.27smurfettehttp://www.aclu.org/privacy/spying/areyoulivinginaconstitutionfreezone.html
22:22.49starseekerhunts around for rtweight
22:23.14``Erik_was on slashdot earlier, punker
22:23.39starseeker``Erik_:  Whether they're doing it or not it's wrong - if they don't care it shouldn't be too hard to make it "correct" - just call everything a weight and be done with it
22:23.47smurfettebah, im always late to find out anything
22:24.18``Erik_when delta(gravity) matters, it becomes... well, important
22:24.20starseeker``Erik_:  it's a 101 basic unit mistake no one should be making
22:24.48starseekersure
22:25.01starseekermy point exactly - it's worth doing right
22:25.10starseekerand there is a strong case for that
22:25.37``Erik_well, grok: analysts demanded a piece of software to automate a large portion of their job. New analysts learned how to use the software, but not the fundamentals. Recurse a few times. Now we have a batch of analysts completely unequiped to deal with the nitty gritty of the model and a black box of magic software.
22:25.46CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33055 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (search.c search.h): Start on some more generalized functionality related to number of nodes present in combinations and subtrees. Once completed, this will fully replace the functionality in the proposed dbfindempty tcl command
22:26.02brlcadhowdy smurfette
22:26.09``Erik_since it's just a magic black box that you push the 'go' button on, the quality of the minds operating it has deteriorated to essentially assembly line standards.
22:26.21starseeker``Erik_: so won't they listen to us when we explain why it needs to be done correctly?
22:26.38starseekersince we're "
22:26.41starseekermechanics"
22:26.47``Erik_I imagine most will listen, and a couple might even understand :)
22:27.22starseekersmurfette:  Is that everyone's favorite DJ?
22:27.35``Erik_but yes, exactly, we're just greasy mechanics, all they know is which pedal to push to make it go faster and which to make it stop.
22:27.47brlcadstarseeker: changing everythign to weight .. or everthing to mass ?
22:27.59brlcadgots no problems with making it "right"
22:28.00starseekerbrlcad:  Doing it "right"
22:28.15starseekerbrlcad: Oh, good :-)
22:28.17``Erik_thinks it should all be mass, and rtweight should have a gravity parm
22:28.27brlcadyeah, that's what I was thinking
22:28.33``Erik_which defaults to, oh, say, 9.82 m/s^2 or something
22:28.54starseeker``Erik_:  Oh, that's a given.  I was worried about customer code
22:29.41``Erik_if you're going to monkey with default behavior, you might want to talk to geoff... personally, I'd try to keep russ out of it
22:30.02starseekeris prepared to be fairly stubborn about refusing to do it "wrong" in BRL-CAD just to make someone else's tool happy - they need to fix their tool too
22:30.05starseekerok
22:30.08``Erik_he's a nice guy, but insanely resisant to change
22:30.44starseekererrors like this tend to propagate and cause problems down the road
22:31.19``Erik_especially once you bring things like orbital platforms into the picture :D
22:31.47starseekerwould be very very red-faced if he were an analyst and didn't have his units straight
22:32.13``Erik_and even ground crap has been plagued by quirks like coriolis effects for quite a while
22:32.38brlcadeveryone just uses it as mass that I'm aware of
22:32.39starseekerreally?  cool
22:33.31brlcad``Erik_: 6:15 lobby to head to thai
22:33.38brlcadif you want to drive with
22:33.44brlcadotherwise see ya there
22:34.22starseekerneeds to hit the road... getting very quiet around here
22:34.41``Erik_aight
22:35.49*** join/#brlcad novakyu (n=novakyu@visitor2.Berkeley.EDU)
22:36.08``Erik_damn, this place is crawling with computer nerds
22:36.35Ralithwhat a strange thing that is.
22:36.38Ralith^^
22:36.42brlcadslow'n down ma' net bastages
22:37.01``Erik_I think this entire hotel was booked for this event
22:37.43``Erik_what kinda scotch did they gift you, brlcad? should I swing by for a sample? ;)
22:37.59brlcadstarseeker:erm, why not just db_count_tree_leaves(tp)?
22:39.07brlcad``Erik_: aberlour 16yr
22:39.24``Erik_ok, I need to swing by for a sample in the next day or two.
22:39.29brlcadyup
22:39.30``Erik_stop guzzling it.
22:39.31``Erik_:D
22:39.35brlcadi'll bring it to the party
22:39.42``Erik_which?
22:40.00brlcadthe main one, sat
22:40.12``Erik_oh, the pizza thing?
22:40.30brlcadyeah
22:40.34``Erik_coo
22:40.38*** part/#brlcad novakyu (n=novakyu@visitor2.Berkeley.EDU)
22:41.18``Erik_open source software development, where everyone's a drunk! wee! heh
22:41.55``Erik_<google> these nerds need all the social lube we can afford
22:41.56``Erik_O.O
22:46.59CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33056 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/articles/nirt/en/: ignore nirt.html
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23:31.40eriksgirlum werid
23:47.48``Erik_yes, yes you are
23:47.53``Erik_you are very werid
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081025

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081025

01:05.15punkrockgirl:(
01:07.48starseekerbrlcad:  I don't want to return 1 at regions?
01:17.47*** join/#brlcad phreak4257 (n=phreak@67-42-57-128.eugn.qwest.net)
02:56.36*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:59.50yukonbobhello, cadheads
03:05.04*** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
03:05.04*** join/#brlcad punkrockgirl (i=Pandora@c-69-247-220-102.hsd1.mo.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
03:05.04*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
03:05.04*** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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03:05.04*** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
03:12.18*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
04:55.34brlcadhowdy yukonbob
05:03.13yukonbob:)
05:03.59yukonbobhey -- I just found out the other day that BRL-CAD was the _first_ raytracer to produce real-time raytracing (as demonstrated by Mike Muuss at one of the siggraphs, iirc)
05:09.12brlcadyukonbob: yep
05:10.22brlcadmassive distributed parallel rendering of a few frames of animation giving about 2-10fps iirc
05:10.41brlcads/frames/seconds/
05:11.06yukonbobbrl-cad ftw!
05:11.24brlcadI think we got that rendering actually pulled off of umatic just this past summer, so hopefully can get them up on the website
05:11.26yukonbobhistory folks! history! you're running history!
05:11.42yukonbobthe future folks! the future! you're running the future!
05:11.59yukonbobneat
05:12.20yukonbobbrlcad: you following the tcl/tk con?
05:19.59brlcadyukonbob: no, I was going to attend (and present), but it overlapped with the gsoc summit
05:20.09yukonbob:P
05:20.21yukonbobI was hoping to attend, too... obviously didn't.
05:24.06brlcadah
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06:29.55CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33057 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/memalloc.c: r32845 removed memalloc.c from the build but apparently the file itself was accidentally not removed. now it's gone.
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13:52.58brlcadkicks CIA-24
13:52.58CIA-24ow
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15:38.00``Erik_kicks brlcad
17:44.02brlcadwonders why CIA-24 isn't reporting anything
19:07.13*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet-45-219.dorm.utexas.edu)
19:20.19starseekerbrlcad:  Erm, sorry - misread question
19:49.02starseekershould probably just call db_tree_nleaves
19:51.08CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33066 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/search.c: Revert inclusion of db_count_tree_leaves - need to do more work/thinking on what is needed.
19:51.32starseekerhmm, CIA got that one
19:51.55starseekerremembers he needs to sign up for the brlcad email lists as well...
20:42.35AFK-claymorekicks CIA-24
20:42.35CIA-24ow
21:47.29*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=Ralith@216.162.199.202)
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22:40.04vulduovlakhi
22:41.29*** part/#brlcad vulduovlak (i=hsmvk@201.58.181.101)
22:48.58``Erik_nah ya don't
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081026

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081026

00:09.06``Erik_practices his evil laughs as the commit grinds
00:09.23CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33068 10/brlcad/trunk/ (87 files in 5 dirs): updated libpng to 1.2.32
01:54.42brlcadheh
03:18.21*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
04:45.17CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33069 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/articles/ (27 files in 27 dirs): Add ignores for docbook articles
04:46.20CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33070 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/: Add ignores for system/man1
04:46.47starseekerbrlcad:  I think that's got it - svn status should be useful again
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07:56.25brlcadstarseeker: awesome
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16:30.53Vegittosąl
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081027

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081027

01:15.53*** join/#brlcad ``Erik_ (n=erik@bz.bzflag.bz)
01:34.24``Erik_*yawn*
02:06.15brlcad``Erik_: we're ordering a bunch of chinese for delivery poolside, if you're interested
02:06.34``Erik_sure
02:06.43``Erik_should I wander over now to htrow an orderin?
02:07.37brlcadup to you
02:07.46``Erik_where ya'll at?
02:07.57brlcadpoolside
02:08.08``Erik_aight, be down in a minute
03:36.53*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet-45-219.dorm.utexas.edu)
04:01.06brlcadhowdy pacman87!
04:01.13pacman87howdy
04:01.49pacman87my gfx card fan has become way too loud, and my hard drive is dying :(
04:02.12pacman87so i'm back to integrated gfx, and hoping my hd doesn't die completely
04:17.17brlcadouch
04:17.26brlcadsounds like you need a new puter soon
04:23.26yukonbobwatches Ghost in the Shell 2 -- awesome...
04:23.46yukonbobhi pacman87
04:23.56yukonbob, brlcad
04:24.00pacman87hi yukonbob
04:24.02brlcadyukonbob: oh, sweet
04:24.05pacman87brlcad: yes, i do
04:24.07brlcadi've been wanting to see that badly
04:24.14pacman87this one's getting ~4 yrs old
04:24.25brlcadsaw the previews two years ago .. absolutely amazing
04:24.30brlcadpacman87: ouch
04:24.46yukonbobbrlcad: yup, _very_ cool, indeed...
04:24.49brlcadpacman87: what kind of machine is it?
04:25.12pacman87p4, 2.8 ghz, 533 fsb, 1280MB ddr-2700 ram
04:25.16yukonbobsaw what I think was the world premier at Toronto Internation Film Fest few years ago on big screen... rewatching for the hell of it...
04:25.36yukonbob*International
04:30.28yukonbobsome of the scenes are so incredible, it's just gratuitous awesomeness...
04:33.09brlcadyeah, it looked brilliant
04:33.12brlcadtruely spectacular
04:51.04``Erik_brlcad, I have your bottle
04:56.04brlcad``Erik_: mm, okay
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09:08.33CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33071 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/BrlcadCore.def: added bu_avs_init_empty
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10:49.57claymorestretches.
10:50.00claymoreMorning all!
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12:18.32mafmhi
12:26.13claymorehai!
12:26.20claymoreLOL:   http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3159/2807838577_83cbed0126_o.jpg?t=1053139
12:29.09mafmpr0n in the tubes!
12:47.41*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@206-248-129-225.dsl.teksavvy.com)
12:50.01claymorepr0n?  Thats not pr0n, thats comedy!
13:29.58brlcadhehe, that's great
13:47.00yukonbobhilarious...
13:51.23*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet-45-219.dorm.utexas.edu)
14:10.29``Erik_in a disturbing fashion, quite
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14:57.15``Erik_http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/fail-owned-spankme-building-naming-fail.jpg
15:00.40CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33073 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Added a project file for libgcv.
15:24.27``Erik_<-- grumbles at this javascript monstrosity he's trying to rewrite in a sane language, the algorithm is just... horrible
15:31.27CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33074 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am g_qa.xml): Add docbook g_qa man page worked on by Janine and Cliff
15:49.05CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r33075 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Command.cxx Command.h Commands.h): Factoring out common code to treat results of libged function invocations
15:51.40brlcad``Erik_: they're ready at 9 in the lobby for breakfast
15:54.05*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
15:59.33claymoreBreakfast at 0900?  Sheesh.  Must be nice. :P
16:00.43``Erik_ok, uh
16:00.58``Erik_I'm guessing htat includes checkout?
16:27.40starseekerah, good - db_tree_nleaves seems to do the right thing
16:29.58CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33076 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am anim_lookat.xml anim_offset.xml): Man pages for anim_lookat and anim_offset in docbook, worked on by Janine and Cliff
16:49.22brlcaddetaches
16:56.47*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@unaffiliated/elite01)
17:26.44CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r33077 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (7 files): Creating especialized class for commands replicating/calling libged functions
17:49.46CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r33078 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/GedCommand.h: Changing access privileges for a method, private is not quite right in this case
17:51.21CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33079 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs):
17:51.22CIA-24BRL-CAD: Add a 'number of nodes' option to search called -nnodes. This is a
17:51.22CIA-24BRL-CAD: generalization of the -empty option, which is now removed. With this feature
17:51.22CIA-24BRL-CAD: search should be able to handle everything represented by the code on feature
17:51.22CIA-24BRL-CAD: request 1677383.
17:53.26mafmis OK to put messages to be printed as "static const char"? I guess that it's more efficient than #defines
17:54.00mafmbut I don't know if you have recommendations or problems or even BRL-CAD guidelines about that
17:56.33CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r33080 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Command.cxx Command.h Commands.h GedCommands.h): Small corrections to method/variable naming, it's a bit clearer and verbosity is not a hassle in this case
18:03.35*** join/#brlcad archivist_emc (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
18:53.57CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03mafm * r33081 10/rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/ (Command.cxx Command.h Commands.h GedCommands.h): Using statically defined strings instead of putting messages directly in messages related with command processing (it's supposed to be more efficient and maintanable)
19:06.29brlcadmafm: nah, there's no steadfast rule -- fairly bikeshed difference
19:06.53brlcadif it's useful to have a handle on that data in a debugger, then definitely a static const instead of a define of course
19:11.04mafmit's about the latest of my commits
19:14.41``Erik_defines ftw!
19:14.42mafmso I'll leave them like that if it's about the same
19:14.50brlcadmafm: I saw the patches, nice work actually
19:15.04mafmthanks :)
19:15.05brlcadsome nitpicks, but nothing worth complaining about that actually matters ;)
19:15.35mafmI'm doing... peripheric work until libged is more finished
19:15.37claymorebrlcad/erik:  When does your flight leave?
19:15.44mafmalso I don't have lots of time
19:16.17mafmin example wed-fri of last week I was in a new datacenter and couldn't code a bit, I still have my project pending, etc
19:16.42mafmI'm trying at the moment to tackle small tasks :)
19:16.54mafm``Erik_: why?
19:17.55mafmalso about the efficientcy, I don't know if all compilers are smart enough to optimize that in all cases (even with -O0 and the like)
19:18.15mafmor when calling same defines from different files
19:18.24mafmmaybe they would use one string per .o file or something like that
19:20.21``Erik_soon I think, claymore
19:21.31brlcadclaymore: like in 5 minutes, already boarding
19:21.35brlcadcya on the flip side
19:22.02brlcadmafm: small tasks are great, better than nothing, and it keeps the energy going (motivates others)
19:22.06brlcadgood stuff
19:22.16brlcadtime to board now, cheers
19:23.08mafmgood flight :)
19:45.20CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33082 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am anim_orient.xml): Man page for anim_orient in docbook, worked on by Janine and Cliff
19:45.42mafmgoing home, bye...
20:27.30CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33083 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (B.xml E.xml M.xml Makefile.am Z.xml adc.xml): Man pages for B, E, M, Z and adc in docbook, worked on by Janine and Cliff
21:42.09*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5B14E312.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:14.37brlcadwoot
22:31.42pacman87is contemplating designing/building a passive heatsink for his graphics card
22:32.55*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=Ralith@216.162.199.202)
23:57.33CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33084 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/units.c: (log message trimmed)
23:57.33CIA-24BRL-CAD: Expand bu_units_conversion to support volume and mass. The order of searching
23:57.33CIA-24BRL-CAD: for matches is length, volume and finally mass. Since unit names are unique
23:57.33CIA-24BRL-CAD: across dimensions, this works for the string->conversion factor direction and no
23:57.34CIA-24BRL-CAD: new function call is needed. Unfortunately, it is NOT the case that conversion
23:57.36CIA-24BRL-CAD: factors are unique to dimensions and as a consequence a general conversion
23:57.38CIA-24BRL-CAD: factor -> string function must know if it is looking for a length, volume or
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081028

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081028

00:02.40starseekerof course, one way to approach this would be to simply store the names of the units in all cases and just convert when actually doing calculations - unit->string is convenient in some cases but I'm not sure it's truly necessary for what we do
02:28.11yukonbobhello, cadheads
02:28.17starseekerhowdy :-)
02:28.25yukonbobwhat's shaking, starseeker?
02:28.34starseekernot a lot - new option to search
02:28.45starseekermonkeying with units
02:28.52yukonbobnods
02:29.04yukonbobunit monkey-er
02:29.38yukonbobchews food, trying to think of bite-size software project he can take on....
02:30.37starseekernew primitive :-)
02:31.24yukonboboh, no, I've got a list of stuff already :P -- I just need to make progress... I've got a system that's so unstable right now, I don't even have brl-cad up/running...
02:31.55yukonbobmy goal is to stabalize and get brl-cad up/running, then check status of some ancient bugs I've already got on my radar :)
02:32.34yukonbobIt's not a question of "to do's" for me, it's a question of time :P  Work is taking it all :P
02:34.55louipcyep
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11:59.51mafmhi
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13:00.33brlcadhowdy mafm
13:12.15starseekerdrools over color epaper
13:12.59starseekerand resigns himself to the inevitable - commute time!
13:13.05brlcadepaper is awesomeness
13:49.24CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33085 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 4 dirs): Added the rrt function to libged.
13:51.25claymoremorning all
13:53.48mafmbrlcad: are you going to gsoc mentor summit?
14:00.09brlcadmafm: heh, I just got back from the summit
14:00.31brlcadhad fun talking to one of the ogre leads about your project
14:02.54brlcadhowdy claymore
14:03.07brlcadglances over his shoulder just to make sure he didn't miss something
14:03.35``ErikO.o
14:05.22mafmbrlcad: oh, I thought that you were going in the plane yesterday, not going back...
14:05.32mafmbrlcad: who's the devel?
14:07.19brlcadleft on thursday
14:18.32mafmbrlcad: who's the devel?
14:19.18brlcadah, assaf I think
14:21.58brlcadhis name escapes me at the moment, has mid-long curly hair, glasses, skinny, tallish ;)
14:22.51brlcadnot my buddy steve streeting though, he wasn't there this year
14:23.17mafmI don't have physical references of any of them :)
14:23.23mafmjust nicknames
14:24.07brlcadsteve is sinbad
14:24.14mafmyes
14:24.15brlcaddon't know assaf's nickname
14:24.23mafmand then another ones like pjcast...
14:25.25mafmAbout: Assaf joined the team in March 2008, and is the primary Dx10 maintainer.
14:25.33mafmso quite a new fella
14:25.34mafm:)
14:26.17mafmany useful comments, in example about the GUI libs?
14:37.43claymoreisn't doing so well this morning. Dizzy, headache, etc.
14:38.15claymorebrlcad:  moved that release sync meeting to wednesday since you said you prolly wouldnt be in today lol ;)
14:46.43claymoreis about to throw his router against the wall... it won't forward any ports to save its life.....
14:46.47claymorescreams.
14:47.11``Erikso foward the starboards instead? HA. HA. HA. okI'llshutupnow
14:47.51claymorenow has a new target for his router in lieu of the wall.
14:48.13claymoreerik:  back @ work?
14:48.47``Erikayup *flees his office to avoid high velocity networking equipment*
14:49.43claymoreWell if I had a router-pult that could sling a wrt-54g ~45 miles then I would think it would be party time at mi casa.
15:17.22CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33086 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Added the echo function to libged.
15:23.40``Erikstarseeker: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d7fac673e
15:26.59CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33087 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/g_qa.xml: Tweak g_qa docbook man page.
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16:05.59mafmfuse-sshfs ftw!
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18:48.47CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33088 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/rtif.c: Remove dead duplicate code.
19:01.14``ErikTrab pu kcip! Trab pu kcip!
19:49.52mafmnight
20:13.20*** part/#brlcad ``Erik_ (n=erik@bz.bzflag.bz)
20:49.11starseekerreads through how nirt is called from mged
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23:18.44cad23hello
23:20.20cad23Does anyone know where I can get more info on rtarea and rtweight
23:20.39cad23I was told man pages but man rtarea and man rtweight didn't return anything
23:21.04``Erikyou probably have to update your MANPATH (or use 'brlman', which does that for you)
23:23.48cad23that worked great thank you
23:25.57cad23Do you know where I can look to find more information on how the models are stored?
23:27.03``Erikuhm, you mean the format of the .g file?
23:27.40cad23yes
23:28.07cad23I think logically it's a tree of operations
23:28.42``Erikthe csg stuff is arranged that way... we have a database format document, but it's out of date :/ the source is the documentation now
23:28.58``Erikmostly in src/librt (src/libwdb might be worth looking at, or the procdb stuff a little bit)
23:31.28cad23the rtarea doesn't seem like what I wanted
23:32.01``Erikyeah, it's the area of a view, not the total exposed surface area :/
23:32.33cad23I talked to a proffessor in computer graphics and he said it's impossible to get the total surface area
23:33.47``Eriknot impossible, but complex and expensive (and we don't have an automagic knob to cook cpu for that)
23:34.15cad23he said the approximation is the best bet
23:34.24``Erikwould imagine a surface walking algorithm could probably do it in a reasonable fashion
23:38.30cad23rtarea from 3 orthogonal views might be an easy way to approximate surface area
23:40.34``Erikthen you have to correlate all the surfaces between all 3 views :/
23:45.23cad23so not very practical
23:51.43cad23thank you for your time
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081029

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081029

00:24.10*** join/#brlcad elite01_ (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
01:09.49pacman87you could probably do it using the normal vector at each hitpoint
01:10.10pacman87(finding the area)
01:10.17pacman87or at least an approximation
01:21.30pacman87area covered by one ray would be (d^2) / (unit_ray DOT unit_norm), where d is the distance between adjacent rays, assuming the rays are shot in a square grid
01:21.53pacman87then add the areas from each ray
01:22.30pacman87it won't work if there's a surface tangent to the ray, though
01:23.28``Erikat that point, grinding it through nmg to get a bot non-csg representation and just summing the area of all the triangles would be good 'nuff, no? :D
01:24.26pacman87yeah, probably :)
01:24.59pacman87i thought nmg wasn't fully working yet
01:25.41pacman87i've got to go teach physics, back in ~2 hrs
01:26.03``Erikit's slow, ugly, and breaks a lot
02:09.53*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
03:05.28yukonbobNova (PBS) has a show about animation, if anybody's interested...
03:08.56louipccan I watch via web?
04:14.33louipcaww only the day after
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05:00.53yukonbobturned out to be more about fractals and Mandelbrot -- still very good...
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12:00.40mafmhallo
12:41.01CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33089 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Continuing the Geometry Service Java -> Cpp conversion.
12:57.11mafmC++ ftw!
12:57.13mafm
13:11.42``Erikew
13:12.20archivistC++ --, C ++
13:12.52``Erikobjc, smalltalk, lithp, ruby, ... crap, even python on some days :)
13:13.17Axman6Haksell++
13:13.54``Erikhaskell is good, too, if your problem is more math and less i/o... monads can be a pain at times :)
13:15.14Axman6thar be dragons that get you through the I, and O makes the holes they get in through!
13:15.30archivistI see a lot of OOP abuse of databases, people serialising objects into fields, they have no idea how to harness the power of an RDBMS
13:15.46``Erikoh yeah, OM is bad juju
13:15.55Axman6OM?
13:15.59``Erikobject mapping
13:16.07Axman6ah
13:16.28``Erikwhat crap like 'hibernate' does, "magic" instance<->rdbms persistence
13:17.07archivistverily
13:17.13Axman6i actually quite like java's serialisation stuff, used it in a game for a comp assignment recently, worked very well
13:17.51Axman6high score list was just an ArrayList with a serialised class i made for storing the info
13:18.20``Erikmost ORM's (sorry, orm, not om) doesn't serialize like that, they have fields marked 'persistent', and each is stored in a column
13:18.39``Erikobject relational mapper? something, I'm still waking up :) haven't had my first sip of coffee yet
13:20.07archivistwe see them in #mysql when they hit a speed problem
13:21.53``Erikmany java weenies don't realize the amount of processings and communication to do an sql query, I've seen ORM persistence to mysql, postgresql and oracle abused in horrible ways when developers cache the results of simple (and completely reproducable) computations... in the backing store...
13:22.19``Erikload 4 values, compute simple polynomial, save result.
13:22.48archivistcache abuse is another can of worms
13:22.51``Erik(then, later, load 10 results, compute average, save THAT value)
13:23.28Axman6``Erik: you might like this http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Annual-Reboot.aspx
13:24.04``Erikquery, archivist, a while back with mysql, if you had a table with a 'double' row, did an insert, then selected that value out, it was not a bit perfect copy... is there any reason?
13:24.21``Erikaxman6: I've read t he entire backlog of dailywtf and catch up every day :D good site
13:24.30Axman6heh, nice :)
13:24.45archivistmost of the idiots never save the result, they calc every page hit
13:25.05``Erikfreshmeat, slashdot, bsd news, qdb/bash, dailywtf, bofh, lolcats...
13:26.11archivistlolcats rulz
13:26.23``Erikthis was in the guts of a distributed physics simulation, it's like the db was being used as a databus and they decided they needed the ability to continue at pretty much source line fidelity, so 99.999% of their time was in the hibertnate<->mysql chunk :(
13:27.40archivisthow far back was that data error? older versions trimmed char/varchar, newer does not
13:28.24``Erikum, a couple years, but this was numerical 'double' type, not text?
13:29.11archivistah typical float problem, use decimal
13:29.53``Erik*shrug* their solution was to print it to a string and save that, then parse the string when they read. my solution was to leave. :)
13:30.01archivistI avoid doubles and floats
13:30.21archivistdecimal is an exact type
13:31.45``Erikah, neat. I've moved my thinking more to non-sql styles of backing, like journalled images (bknr style)
13:33.30archivistor cheat and use a blob /binary type
13:34.53``Erikhttp://bash.org/?835413
13:36.13archivistso much to idle the days work away....
13:50.44``Erikindeed
13:53.41claymoreErik:  Do you know if brlcad is planning on being in today?
13:56.10``Eriknot sure, um, he dropped me off just after midnight and went to work... I think he was here from mebbe 1am to noon or so yesterday. he may be recovering
13:56.27``Erikhe was committing to bzflag about 5 hours ago
13:57.51claymoreHrm, well hope he doesn't forget about the 1500 meeting I called :)  If so I may have to reschedule... again.
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15:00.34mafmarchivist: C++-- is supposed to be Java :D
15:05.35``Eriknah, c++-- is like a rollover condition
15:06.08mafmwhy don't you like C++? :)
15:06.14``ErikI did get a kick out of guy steeles comment that java was meant to drag the c++ guys half way to lisp
15:07.02mafmlol
15:07.25``Erikbecause I drank the koolaid for a bit in the mid-late 90's, got to understanding what it was doing and some of the limitations (which made me adverse to "object oriented" at all), then got into stuff like ruby and smalltalk and objectiveC, so now I know what c++ is defaming ? :D
15:09.53``Erikthat and being exposed to the unix world with some insanely elegant and short C doing what I've seen mountains of c++ used to do in the windows world *shrug* once in a rare while, I write some c++, but it's just a horribly poor fit for most problems, im(ns)ho
15:10.28archivistI came from the assembler side of the world, quick and easy program writing != fast programs
15:11.24``Erikwell, my history is basic->65xx asm->x86 asm (shudder)->c++->C->(explosion of languages that I cannot recall the order of anymore)
15:11.45``Erikoh, there was some z80 in there somewhere, and some 68xx, too
15:13.24archivistalthough I admit to buying a book Object Oriented Assembly Programming
15:15.08``ErikI wish I would've though to convert my old c64 programs to a data source I could access :( I had a nifty library of code blocks for all sorts of common activities
15:19.22starseekerwishes McCLIM would get a big infusion of effort so we could all do everything in Lisp
15:21.07mafm:)
15:21.26mafmdunno, I see C++ as a more elegant C
15:21.53mafmand I'd prefer things like Ada, but I have to live in the real world
15:21.55mafm:)
15:26.08brlcadAFK-claymore: yes, I'll be there
15:31.32``Erikthat's another amusing thing I came across, starseeker... the assertation that c++ and java are written for mediocre developers (and that's ok, because there are plenty of those developers) where lisp is written for top shelf developers (therefore unsuitable for a large portion of the workforce)
15:31.55starseekeryeah, I've seen similar quotes
15:32.37``Erikand the responses of "but mit teaches scheme in its intro course" and "but you have your guru writing the macros and your turds writing all the other crap"?
15:33.19``Erik(and I believe I've made the statement that you simply don't see mediocre developers in MIT's courses)
15:34.25starseekermmm
15:34.34starseekerah, here's the quote:
15:34.41starseekerJava was, as Gosling says in the first Java white paper, designed for average programmers. It's a perfectly legitimate goal to design a language for average programmers. (Or for that matter for small children, like Logo.) But it is also a legitimate, and very different, goal to design a language for good programmers. - Paul Graham
15:35.58starseekerHeh:
15:36.40starseekerDino Dai Zovi
15:36.50starseekerWe all know that Lisp is the best language around, but in the hands of most it becomes like that scene in Fantasia when Mickey Mouse gets the wand.
15:39.29archivistluvely java quote /me steals and adds it to #mysql bot
15:44.49mafmother than being easy to interpret, I never found LISP to be remarkable nor very useful :þ
15:45.48``Erikhuh, I've found it to be quite useful once you get the training wheels off and move past hello world
15:45.49mafmI would probably quit programming if McCLIM would get that infusion
15:46.34``Erikgiven that travelocity and orbitz use lisp backends, I'd say it can be a useful language :D
15:47.10``Erikoh, and "ratchet&klank" uses a fair chunk of lithp, thuppothedly, as well as that old 'abuse' game
15:47.11mafmwhat's special about LISP, using lists as main abstraction or modifying other parts of the code on the run, or..?
15:49.07``Erikmeh, lisp has structs, classes, arrays, vectors, ... a zomfg macro system is useful, being able to express things in short clean functions or methods is nice, working in an 'environment' system has huge benefits (like instead of code, compile, load data and test... you just code and test)
15:50.42``Erikwrote a (obnoxiously simple) gui ide in under 200 lines of scheme a while back, thinks all his copies were on a hdd that cooked, though :(
15:50.46mafmre: travelocity and orbitz... well, you know that there's a surge in COBOL demand because lots of banks use it, right? I don't think that it says anything positive about COBOL though
15:52.18brlcaddon't folks have better things to do than pontificate about and navel-gaze on programming languages for hours on end? :-)
15:52.23``Erikyeah, but simple report generation on a mainframe is far less challenging than multi-facetted path optimization of a constantly changing data set with a slew of concurrent users expecting an interactive experience :D
15:53.04brlcadwith that level of discussion inefficiency, the language so doesn't matter -- you could have had [insert_task_here] done in almost any language
15:53.16mafmlol
15:53.17``Erik"code, {(compile && test), jabber}; repeat"
15:53.28brlcadreturns you to your regularly scheduled navel gazing
15:53.35mafmsorry brlcad by I'm not productive in this noisy environment
15:54.26brlcadmafm: understandably
15:54.42brlcadthe "off-topic" gavel needed to be raised a couple hours ago
15:54.52``Erikbut it's fun!
15:54.58mafmnot the channel, I mean this alien-dissecting greenhouse that they call datacenter
15:55.06mafm
15:55.13brlcadmafm: ah
15:55.15``Erikand less than an hour of language jabber
15:55.54brlcadtry three hours, just migrating participants
15:56.11clock_this evening don't walk out
15:56.19clock_I will test my new amplifier
15:56.54clock_I assume it's so badly designed it will instantly start to oscillate on all possible frequencies, bringing all the air traffic on the Earth down
15:56.58``Erikbahhh, yer no fun :D
15:57.10``Erikclock: Large Datagram Collider?
15:57.20clock_lol
15:57.43clock_Actually have you heard of use of potentiometers in radars in the small signal path?
15:58.07clock_I wonder if a potentiometer can be used as a device in a very low noise system which has only the thermal noise and no additional noise.
16:03.55*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5B14F9BE.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:06.55mafmLarge Hellicopter Crusher, maybe
16:07.58AFK-claymoreor.... http://musiclub.web.cern.ch/MusiClub/bands/cernettes/firstband.html
16:09.43AFK-claymorehttp://blog.alcastle.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/2008-06-26-lhc.png
16:10.39``Erikeveryone's seen http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html right?
16:11.46AFK-claymoreanything with *webcams* in it is borderline nsfw.... do I click on that or not....?  Hrm...
16:12.00``Erikheh, this is work safe
16:13.44AFK-claymoregetting a dedlink
16:14.09``Erikhuh,  working for me :(
16:14.43louipcOH SHITE
16:14.47AFK-claymorewell you are using your proxy-fu are you not?
16:14.55``Erikof course
16:15.01louipcwe're all gonna die
16:15.05mafmlol
16:15.22mafmyou know, my former flatmate was working in CMS experiment
16:15.34AFK-claymoreI would be laughing all the way to the grave if the lhc brought forth the end.
16:16.07mafmwell, and my labs designs parts of the CMS detector
16:16.16AFK-claymoreAlmost as funny as the idea of the Earth getting demolished to make room for an intersellar Bypass
16:16.20mafmmy lab will be responsible for the black hole!
16:16.51``Erikah, the flakey DNS servers here are the issue :/
16:16.58AFK-claymoreCMS = Content Management System?  Never knew Joomla was that evil...
16:17.16mafmnope
16:17.22mafmLHC Compact Muon Solenoid Experiment Webcams -> CMS
16:19.35AFK-claymorewatches in horror as yet another joke is beaten to death....
16:21.05claymoreerik: I was actually thinking that the IT 'tards updated the firewalls with "Block *.* EXCEPT *.youtube.com"
16:22.07``Erikheh, no, I did some scanning, it cannot resolve with the DNS servers we're told to use
16:22.24``Erikand it uses vhosting, so'z you can't just use the IP :(
16:22.54``Erikya get a 404 from "hostgator.com" if ya try
16:25.04claymoreSpeaking of hosting, www.netfirms.com still has their $10 for a year of decent hosting going on.  Its a 'coupon' code that I think they forgot to disable, tee hee.
16:25.28mafmclaymore: I was thinking that might be a joke, but no sure
16:26.06claymoremafm:  I am extremely sarcastic and rarely am serious.  its in my nature.
16:26.36mafmnice to hear!
16:27.09``Erik10/myr? I see 10/mo O.o
16:27.35claymoreNetfirms Advantage Hosting:  250GB Disk, 2TB/month bandwidth, 2 free domains, blah blah blah.
16:27.55claymoreSign up for 1 year of advantage hosting and put in MAX for the propotion/coupon code ;)
16:28.27claymoreworks out to "Buy 1 month get 11 free"  lol.
16:28.49``Erikhuh, cool
16:28.50claymorethe speeds are so-so.  Not blazing fast, not painfully slow either.
16:29.44claymoreone click installers are nice, but the ssh access is super stripped down.  What did you call it Erik... a 'jail' ?
16:30.18``Erikgiven that it's linux, it'd be a chroot or a vm image
16:31.11claymoreOver all, I would say that 10/mo is overpriced for the service & features... but 10/yr... now your're talkin ;)
16:31.12``Eriklinux guys will often call it a jail, but that makes the bsd guys angsty (ok, angstier), since jails involve duplicating all the writable kernel memory to prevent breaking out
16:31.41alex_joniclaymore: check out DH while you're at it..
16:32.04claymoreadds that to the long (and growing ) list of things to read.
16:32.13alex_joniclaymore: dreamhost.com
16:32.27``Erikhm, that's who shiro uses
16:35.31mafmreboot needed (no, no windows here :P)
16:37.06claymoreErik:  when you heading over?
16:37.41``Erik10 or so minutes
16:37.46``Erikhalf wondering if I should just not go
16:38.17claymorePaullette is on the warpath
16:38.29claymoreso hide
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16:58.57mafmmeh
18:04.19mafmdamn broadcom wireless :|
18:52.20elite01heh, this is ndiswrapper :(
18:52.47mafmmine doesn't seem to work with b43
18:53.04mafmmaybe with ndiswrapper, but I don't have networks around to test
18:53.23elite01ipw3945 used to work fine, but iwl3945 fails, so ugh
18:53.37elite01no idea about broadcom stuff
18:55.18mafmI'm just bored in this datacenter and trying to configure it, no problem :)
18:55.41elite01i'm seriously bored as well
19:38.08mafmgoing home, bue
19:38.09mafmbye
20:05.05CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33090 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/docs/BME.eap: Architecture Planning.
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20:50.45``Erik"Moving at the speed of government while spending at the speed of government." hah
20:52.36archivistspending faster than the taxpayers can
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081030

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081030

00:29.55starseekerbrlcad:  Is the Liquid Wiki Engine Project for Drupal any good? http://drupal.org/node/142409
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01:58.50``Eriknickcollkill on yourself, impressive
02:00.30starseekerneeds to set up Drupal on his home machine so he can experiment without severe risk to the brlcad.or website
02:02.09``Erikonce you install freebsd, just do "portmanager www/drupal6" and it's done :D *duck*
02:04.15Ralith<3 freebsd
02:11.57``Erikhrm, two hits with just hc's, or do I bring my dreadnaught to single-shot it
02:12.57starseekerjeez, gentoo-wiki.com is well and truly screwed
02:13.23``Eriknaturally, it runs on gentoo... :D *duck*
02:13.31starseekerthis is going to be poster child #1 for the importance of off-isp-server backups
02:13.51``Erik3 location, yo
02:13.56starseekertheir isp got in a billing dispute and no one will help him get his data back
02:14.29starseekerlocations wouldn't have done it in this case, he needed multiple company backups
02:15.30``Erikah, I've been fighting to get my data from a university for the last couple months, sucks
02:16.32starseekerthere's something to be said for having physical tape backups in a few locations under your control...
02:16.51``Erikdepends on how much data you're talking about
02:17.06``Erikwhen you start measuring dat9 by terabytes, it gets real expensive real fast
02:17.14starseekergrumbles... gentoo-wiki was EXTREMELY useful and had info on Drupal setup - hope google cache was reasonably current
02:17.20starseekertrue :-)
02:17.35starseekerunless you're doing lots of multimedia though, that's pretty unlikely
02:22.08starseekerheads home...
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03:50.36brlcadstarseeker: can't say I've ever heard of it before today
03:54.37brlcadbut I don't see why we'd bother either -- if wiki is the approach, we have mediawiki; otherwise straight up drupal customization is probably easiest
03:54.51brlcadone thing to look at, though, might be drupal Book Import and Book Export
03:55.19brlcadthey use xml format there already -- doing an xml<->xml conversion (or maybe get lucky if it's already docbook) might be really trivial
03:55.49starseekerI was under the impression their book format was a rather specific way of linking individual pages to each other
03:56.05starseekerwhich isn't really what we're looking for for the man pages
03:56.26starseekerbut yeah, I'll definitely be peaking at the code for a basic education :-)
03:56.51starseekeris working on getting a basic LAMP setup going on his home box
03:57.46brlcadif you think of each manual page as a book, it works out just fine -- the only linking is book-to-book and metabooks
03:58.14brlcador even each manual page as a book section, there are lots of corrollaries
03:58.30starseekerHmm.  OK, I guess some experimentation is in order
03:58.43brlcadmight want to check out this guy's work: http://www.puregin.org/node/201
03:58.54starseekerwinces recalling how his last attempt to setup a LAMP environment went...
03:59.39brlcadas well as http://drupal.org/project/book_import_export of coruse .. it might do the trick outright now
03:59.54brlcadthough I entirely expect that code will need to be written to make it work
04:00.04starseekernods.
04:00.05brlcadjust might get lucky with someone starting things though
04:00.31starseekerI might do some work on the machine here tomorrow - that way anything truly destructive is confined to this box
04:01.07starseekerneeds to just take the damn bull by the horns and make this work
04:02.42starseekerblinks - I didn't realize book import/export was supposed to replace the specific docbook export module
04:05.00starseekerthat may help
04:07.38starseekerdoggone it...
04:07.49starseekergets php recompiling and grabs a few winks...
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09:47.09mafmhi pplz
10:16.19*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
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12:06.00brlcadhowdy mafm
12:20.46mafmI do cool
12:21.03mafmrefrigerated by 3 giant UPSs
12:21.08mafmbringing me a nice flu
12:29.11brlcadheh, fun
12:34.38mafm700TB of storage and not a single disk for p2p, that's not fair!
12:36.12mafmthe internet is for pr0n, after all
12:36.39clock_pr0n and spam
12:42.33brlcadmafm: that's a decent size data store, so where are you at? :)
12:43.04mafmthat's a new datacenter to be used for grid projects
12:43.17clock_p0rn grid?
12:43.19mafmto calculate the size of the new black hole from LHC and things like that
12:53.16mafmand 112 blade servers with 8 cores each and 24/32 GB of RAM
12:53.31mafmI guess that somebody would make decent animations with that
13:04.54clock_The nature has so many mysteries
13:05.09clock_Like the one I want to know is does the BF998 transistor still have 1/f noise at 1 MHz?
13:09.47``Erikhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19s4PCaQ5Mk
13:15.46mafmbe back later
13:15.52``Erikhasta la pasta
13:16.10mafmsomething like that, yep :)
13:40.21starseekerpfft - the book_import_docbook.module file is empty
13:41.32``Eriksucks to be you
13:49.48brlcadmaybe it's a "Choose Your Own Adventure" module
13:50.00starseekerheh
13:50.30starseekerfalls back on the last resort - "when all else fails, read the docs"
13:51.07starseekerbrlcad:  I take it we're staying with Drupal 5 for a while?
13:51.43``Erikum, the new machine has 6.6
13:52.21starseekerblinks - this one has 5.7 according to the changelog
13:52.34``Erikbz.bzflag.bz is the old one
13:53.37``Erikbrlcad last logged into the new one about a year ago, otherwise I've been the only one touching it :)
14:07.49brlcadstarseeker: we could update to 6, but at the time nobody had upgraded the ldap module
14:17.05starseekerOK
14:17.53starseekeris also poking at mediawiki - there's an extension to allow iframes, which might come in handy for throwing up the html output of an xsltproc conversion
14:19.09starseekeryeah, ldap for v6 is still on Aug. 12 alpha2 release
14:21.51louipcdown with frames!
14:22.31starseekerlouipc:  In this case it's a convenient solution - xsltproc will give me a complete html page, which I then need to display as a "view" inside another page
14:22.47starseekerer "preview" rather
14:27.57louipcyeah they make it 10 times easier. damn them!
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14:34.25clock_999999/win 11
14:50.29mafm?
14:54.33*** join/#brlcad PrezKennnedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
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16:44.01brlcadhowdy pacman87
16:51.04mafmbrlcad: do you know of a simple, right way to format strings when you have to print size_t and the like?
16:51.22mafmthe compiler emits warnings, depending on your coomputer architecture
17:29.42``Erikwould %p be right for you?
17:30.45mafmnope, it's %zu
17:33.12``Erikahhh, new c99 toys
17:53.16mafm:)
17:54.06mafmI don't know why they don't have fixed size data in all platforms since the beginning, even if for size_t was probably not an option
17:54.46``Erikthey did in the beginning
17:54.55``Erikyou could choose a pdp7, pdp8, pdp9, or pdp11
17:56.41mafmwhat do you mean?
17:57.52mafmI mean to use "int32_t" instead of having "int", with different sizes in each platform
17:58.50``ErikC was written as a kernel language for the pdp-7, it wasn't intended for portable applications :) so "in the beginning" was a radically different place
17:59.10``Erikwhy use int18_t when all ints are int18_t ?
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18:05.32archivistwhich reminds me In the beginning there was data.  The data was without form and null,
18:05.32archivist> and darkness was upon the face of the console; and the Spirit of IBM
18:05.32archivist> was moving over the face of the market.  And DEC said, "Let there be
18:05.32archivist> registers"; and there were registers
18:06.03archivistcant find the full one at the moment
18:07.03``Erikheh, geekenis 0x01:0x01 ?
18:07.18archivistfound it http://www.humournet.com/misc.humour/creation.txt
18:07.33mafmdunno about the beginnings, but now it's really inconvenient
18:08.15archivistget used to it, chips are always changing size
18:12.26mafm:)
18:12.30mafmI go now, take care
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19:36.27starseekerOh my, a CNC carved pumpkin
19:36.32starseekerthat's just wrong
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20:20.53brlcadstarseeker: oops, I suspect you ran a grep to find the implementations?
20:21.02brlcad(looking at the table you sent)
20:21.37brlcadalas, a lot of them are empty, so you actually have to look at the implementation to see if they're non-empty
20:21.43starseekersort of
20:21.44starseekerah
20:21.53starseekerI caught a few empty ones
20:22.06starseekerI was looking for prim_tess
20:22.19brlcadand nmg isn't the right routine I think
20:22.28brlcadit's the _nurb routine
20:22.31brlcadmisspoke
20:22.47starseekererm
20:22.47brlcad(nurbs are nmgs, just not the other way around)
20:23.23starseekerjudging by the svn logs, Ben did three primitives with the new opennurbs logic
20:23.33brlcadthinks a matrix of all the callbacks is in order sometime soon, would make a good todo list
20:23.37brlcads/list/chart/
20:23.45starseekeragrees
20:24.20starseekerI was assuming a tesselation routine ment NMG, but that's probably not right?
20:25.57starseeker_nurb matches only in tgc and sketch, aside from bspline and nmg...
20:26.12starseekeroh, ell too
20:27.34brlcadnote that may are subtyped -- sph is an ell, rec is a tgc, etc
20:27.46starseekerAh
20:36.26starseekerwill try again
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21:58.08brlcadupdates and ponders a release
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081031

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081031

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03:05.03PrezKennedybrlcad, i looked up sgiflight in google and all im getting is an irc log of when you talked about it
03:09.17Ralithlol
03:14.38PrezKennedy"sgi flight" has a couple more, but it sure makes me glad i grabbed a copy of it when it was available
03:47.22brlcadPrezKennedy: yeah, I have a copy somewhere around here
03:48.20PrezKennedyi would think it might work ok in a windows 95 virtual machine
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07:43.57CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33091 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: added some files to be in sync with Makefile.am
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10:11.58mafmhi
10:55.14claymorehai!
12:20.14mafmhai! can I haz tubez?
12:21.44clock_was tuning the Impossibility Drive yesterday
12:21.57clock_brlcad: do you in the army already have the Improbability Drive/
12:29.15claymoreclock:  We probably do.  ;)
12:30.12clock_I need to get some kind of variable resistor that doesn't produce extra noise (1-10 MHz) when varied and doesn't have higher noise than the thermal noise of ordinary resistor
12:30.35clock_Would it be possible to create a non-electrolytically conductive liquid by suspending soot particles in mineral oil?
12:33.33claymorePossibly, but how would you vary the conducivity accurately & easily?
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14:08.31brlcadclock_: it's probable
14:09.02clock_clock_: it doesn't have to be accurate, since it will be controlled by a feedback loop
14:09.20clock_brlcad: XEROX / laser toner is supposed to be soot?
14:09.43brlcadpretty much
14:10.04clock_I have a desoldering plunger made of conductive plastic, antistatic
14:10.08clock_Ohmmeter showed 900 ohms
14:10.16clock_I guess that's plastic filled with soot?
14:10.48clock_I think when I build it I should show it to some engineers from a commercial optics company
14:11.13clock_they will get a heart attack when they see what kind of garage contraption can outperform their posh transimpedance amplifiers by orders of magnitude
14:11.32clock_here comes a chinese lens, here a bit of soot, here smoke pipes
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16:17.44CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33092 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (Makefile.am metaball.c): begin stubbing out a metaball proc-db
16:18.24``Erik_ok, I think I'm done for the day :D
16:19.28starseekerheh
16:19.48starseekeraren't you going to quash the fake thickness bug? ;-)
16:20.09``Erik_eh? fake thickness bug?
16:20.33starseekerthat visual you have of the thin metaball edge that you think is floating point fuzz?
16:20.34``Erik_"plate mode" is a bug? or did I miss something?
16:20.38``Erik_oh
16:20.42``Erik_uh, some day
16:21.34``Erik_the proc-db is gonna give me a nice stack of fruity demo images and test cases to figure crap out
16:21.55starseekerah :-)
16:22.04``Erik_I wrote a C program to generate mged commands a while ago, but it was too limited
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19:10.37CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33093 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/wdb.c): added wdb_fflush(), just cuz
19:16.29CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33094 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/metaball.c: some quick scaffolding and the beginning of one of the modes
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19:20.41``Erikffs, yet another security update for libpng, their defensive coding is akin to armor of wet sacks made from recycled paper
19:22.00PrezKennedyhow many inches thick?
19:25.53``Erika few microfurlongs or so
19:28.30archivistand the bag is only the size of a barn (10 -24 sq metres)
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19:51.32CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33095 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libwdb/constraint.c: C files should not have the svn:executable property.
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20:42.14CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33096 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/metaball/metaball.c: added rt_metaball_add_point. Const propogation.
20:44.47CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33097 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: added rt_metaball_add_point. Const propogation.
20:45.57CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33098 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/wdb.h src/libwdb/wdb.c): stubbed out wdb mk_metaball
21:02.08CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33099 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (librt/primitives/metaball/metaball.c libwdb/wdb.c): completely untested implementations. Wee.
21:05.43Ralithuntested commits ftw?
21:05.52``Erik_are there any other kind?
21:08.22``Erik_ok, there, tested :D happy? it passed the "does it compile?" test
21:08.26CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33100 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libwdb/wdb.c: mebbe I should at least make sure it compiles, first
21:57.21yukonbobhello, cadheads
21:57.27starseekerhowdy
21:57.32yukonbobhey starseeker
21:57.36yukonbobhow's your day going?
21:57.40starseekernot too bad
21:57.46starseekergym kicked my butt
21:58.27yukonbobhas never had butt kicked by gym...
21:58.39yukonbob<-- (rarely goes to gyms ;) )
21:58.51starseekerheh
22:00.05yukonbobneeds to get one of his bicycles on the road though -- went for quite a nice ride other week (on borrowed bike), and _does_ need to improve fitness...
22:00.30starseekerneeds to achieve some state from which fitness is distantly visible as a goal...
22:00.48yukonbobheh...
22:01.22yukonbobgood luck w/ the gym, then... if you get in the habit, I'm sure you'll come to the space where a distantly visible goal emerges ;)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081101

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081101

00:36.55``Erik_base #13 is building up now O.o
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03:08.05starseekerbrlcad:  Have you ever heard of MCS-libre?  http://sourceforge.net/projects/mcs-libre/
03:13.23starseekerwonders if we could use this - the 2.0 version isn't on the website but the author is responsive to email
03:17.27starseekerhe claims to be using Boost in the 2.0 version, which would tie in nicely with the Boost stuff we already sucked in
03:20.16starseekeralso says he is interested in supporting the library to meet needs it doesn't currently meet
03:36.10brlcadstarseeker: yes, but it's only mildly relevant/useful
03:36.17brlcadit's basically a number generator library
03:36.22brlcadnormal distributions
03:36.26brlcadaggregation
03:38.27brlcadstarseeker: this is what I was referring to earlier: http://ftp.arl.mil/random/
03:39.23brlcadthe way it's implemented, it's really easy to turn into c if needed, or use straight up as c++
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16:24.49starseekerbrlcad:  Is there a license on random?
16:53.16brlcadstarseeker: nope, PD
16:55.29starseekerso you're thinking is that we don't need too much more of a framework than the proper random number generation?
16:55.36starseekerer your
16:56.03brlcadmcs-libre doesn't really do much more than that either :)
16:56.14starseekerAh :-)
16:56.41starseekervery good
16:56.49starseekerlikes the 108 page documentation
16:57.04brlcadyeah, he goes into extensive detail on each of the distribution types
16:57.29brlcadone of those secret little snippets of code that doesn't get the attention it deserves
16:57.56starseekerindeed
16:58.00brlcadit would make a good replacement or addendum to the random number generation in libbn
16:58.22brlcadjust would need to be hidden behind a C api
16:58.46starseekeradds to todo list :-) This type of project deserves to be used
16:59.57starseekerthat reminds me - I noticed there's a bu_hash in libbu, that doesn't seem to be tied to TCL - am I missing something?
17:12.08``Erik_why would it be tied to tcl?
17:12.33starseekerthought someone said our hash system was tied to tcl and needed to be untied - that we were using a tcl hash
17:22.21brlcadbu_hash's aren't used nearly as much as Tcl_Hash's iirc
17:22.39brlcador more importantly, there are plenty of places that use tcl's hash
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17:37.28``Erik__yes. comcastic.
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19:18.25CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33101 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/cmd.c: little less emphasis plus some cleanup
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19:56.41CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33102 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/wdb_obj.c: ws
21:03.54CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33103 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/wdb_obj.c: more ws, fine tuning
21:06.42CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33104 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: about that time
21:30.52``Erik__farscape on fancast.com, good stuff... seems like there're 4.29 billion or so new video streaming sites lately O.o
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081102

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081102

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16:06.47CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33105 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/image.c: better error message and readability
16:19.47starseekerbrlcad:  What point cloud format should I be looking for here?  just an xyz file of points?
16:40.08brlcadstarseeker: yeah
16:46.54starseekerhow do I input this?  I'm trying  mged test.g in test.s pnts 6 4 < test.pnts but nothing is being created
16:48.43starseekeroh, nevermind - seg fault when I try it interactively
16:52.23starseekergrr
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17:07.40starseekerOK, I crafted a command that seems to function, and I end up with... a single sphere
17:09.45brlcadrun l
17:09.50brlcadsee what the values are
17:10.10starseekererm.  seg fault
17:10.11brlcadsegfault on interactive?  stack trace?
17:10.37starseekerhang on, let me try this again in gdb
17:14.28starseekerHere's the input command at least:  http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d364b1f41
17:17.27starseekerand the crash on l test.s:  http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m7bef0bcf
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18:44.23brlcadstarseeker: heh, you may very well have blown the bash command buffer
18:44.33brlcadsometimes have a limit of 64k
18:44.51brlcada better way to test that is a here-now doc
18:45.03brlcadmged -c test.g <<EOF
18:45.09brlcadset glob_compat_mode 0
18:45.45brlcadin test.s pnts 12495 1 0 `cat datafile`
18:45.47brlcadEOF
18:46.14brlcadthere it becomes stdin input instead of argv data
18:47.40brlcadstill shouldn't crash of course .. that needs fixing (and looks like a simple null dereferencing)
18:53.01starseekeris the one you've been using for testing available anywhere?
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11:20.42mafmhai pplz
12:00.43AFK-claymoreMornin!
12:09.46claymorehas a titan to play with now... MUWAHAHAHAHAHA.
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13:41.32claymorebrlcad:  You in today?
13:43.41CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33106 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/bot_dump.c: Print out what's in the result string.
14:47.55brlcadclaymore: I take it you see your note
14:48.14claymoreFrom Ed?
14:48.18brlcadyea
14:48.29brlcador you asking for some other reason?
14:48.35claymoreYea, I was in for a bit on Friday.  Took care of all that.
14:49.05claymoreGeneral BRLCAD coding questions ;)  reading through libged, trying to get a handle on things.
14:49.36brlcadwell ask away! :)
14:49.43claymoreI have a good class layout for the GS, just need to start getting the specifics worked out now.
14:50.09``Erik_the blue pill
14:50.42claymorebut, I need to see how deep the rabit hole goes.
14:50.43``Erik_if y ou just have the descriptor and want the handle, use fdopen() :D *duck*
14:51.49claymoreget his 11 peice set and performs a rimshot... badoom ching.
14:57.10``Erik_interesting, http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d6384593
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15:14.15louipcyeah tkhtml3 isn't installing in the brlcad directory
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16:00.31CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33107 10/brlcad/trunk/ (19 files in 9 dirs): Moved g_qa functionality to libged. Port g_qa to windows.
16:22.58clock_"you'll have enough sleep in the grave" - brlcad is a tough guy
16:23.08clock_likes this reckless aggressive creativity
16:28.46brlcaddoesn't think it's reckless
16:29.40clock_Recklessness (psychology), a state of mind in which a persons acts without caring what the consequences may be
16:29.45clock_Doesn't apply for this case>?
16:35.23claymorebrlcad:  When it comes to the Geometry Service:  What had you invisioned for the in-memory representation of geometry?  Using the existing c structs?
16:35.55claymoreIf so, would the svn store then be full of mini-.g files?
16:35.57brlcadclaymore: yes, librt already manages geometry
16:36.43brlcadthere's some value wrapping them in objects, but still the actual geometry still being via librt
16:36.47claymoreI am trying to find the line between librt and a GeometryManager/CachManager is....
16:37.06claymoreCacheManager even.
16:39.18brlcadyeah, svn store consists of .g files broken out
16:40.00claymoreNow, is that also a long term solution?  Or would we want a slightly more efficient binary format for the geometry fragments in the svn store?
16:40.58brlcadfor now it is, our format is actually really compact and efficient as it is
16:41.30brlcaddoesn't get much more streamlined than a straight-up binary serialization of the exact data
16:41.49claymoreRight, understood.  I was just wondering how much could be gained by slimming down the header/footer for the future bin format... thats all ;)
16:42.28brlcadactually for long-term, there would likely be more benefits by using a more flexible non-binary backend store .. but that's a long ways out and would require a lot of testing
16:42.47brlcadcurrent header/footer is like 100 *bytes*
16:43.14claymorepure wastefulness.  tsk tsk.  A byte is a byte no matter how small. ;)
16:43.15brlcadadd a text attribute on an object and you use up more space than that
16:44.05clock_PDP had like 9 bit bytes didn't
16:45.23claymoreDifferent question then:  Since I am relatively unfamiliar with librt, does librt contain the list/tree of db_internals or is that managed external to librt?
16:47.54brlcadI'm expecting our average "object" size to be around 1k for implicits, 10k for spline breps, and 100k for polygonal breps (includes attribute and revision changeset data)
16:48.38brlcadso the .1k wrapper isn't going to amount to much, less than 99% of the data being stored -- and if it is a problem, it can of course be looked into then
16:54.59claymoreDifferent question then:  Since I am relatively unfamiliar with librt, does librt contain the list/tree of db_internals or is that managed external to librt?
16:57.38brlcadno, it provides it -- when you open a .g file, you get back a "database instance"
16:57.44claymore1k for implicits.... really?  Are you talking on average? Seems to me that a sphere would be much smaller than 1k
16:58.14brlcadthat dbi gives you a handle on a variety of routines, one being a "directory" that you can lookup
16:58.36claymorethinks.
16:59.16claymoreI dunno how well that is going to translate to a the way I am envisioning the 'shared geometry' concepts...
17:00.02claymore.... perhaps the cachemanager will simply be holding an array/list/set of db instances?
17:01.31brlcadhm, it could but I didn't envision the GS talking much to librt directly
17:01.48brlcadalmost entirely via libged and (even moreso) the GE
17:02.36claymoreMy current design is that the GE wraps up all of libged functionality and the GE also contains the GeometryManager
17:03.08starseeker``Erik:  You're specifying your tcl and tk in /usr/local - tkhtml3 is a tcl/tk package, so it's going to try to install in the "correct" place for tcl/tk packages on that system - I'm assuming that's the TEA behavior
17:03.17claymorethe GeometryManager is what is doing all the caching and IO of the geomtery, regardless of its source or destination.
17:03.34starseekeras I understand it, that behavior is necessary for package require ... to function correctly
17:03.35brlcadthat sounds reasonable
17:04.51claymorebrlcad:  now, besides the fact that we will be using libged, we will still need a way to store (cache) and correlate the bits of geometry so as to provide multi-user access.  So, I am stuck on what data struct the GeometryManager (GeoMan) will be caching... db internals?
17:05.52brlcadGeometry objects -- enter data containers that GE needs to have
17:05.59starseekergrowls at his email
17:06.27brlcadthose geometry objects utilize db internals
17:07.25claymorestarseeker:  I think i figured out what was wrong with the way we were doing the email thing.  Swing by and I think we can make it work!
17:08.22claymorebrlcad:  So a GeometryObject will:  a) replace everthing a db internal has/can do, or b) have a db internal as an aggregate and just add some extra fields?
17:08.42brlcadsome mix of b) and c)
17:08.44starseekerclaymore:  thanks! on my way
17:09.19brlcadit has a handle on the geometry via librt representation
17:09.41brlcadwe might add extra fields, but all I/O should still be going through librt so I'm not sure they'd be extra
17:10.40brlcadtwo things that are useful to read up on are what's already in rt^3 for the geometry engine that daniel's worked on as well as what is in the jbrlcad module and how it structures object management
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17:11.17brlcadI've not been able to review daniel's latest work in detail, but what I've seen quickly looking has been good
17:11.39brlcadI have read john's jbrlcad layout in detail and *really* like it
17:11.52brlcadit's an outstanding OO organization of librt
17:12.02brlcadjust incomplete
17:12.12brlcadand in the wrong language :)
17:18.37claymorebrlcad:  Okay, I looked at jbrlcad about a year ago, but I need to refresh my memory.  I'll look at what daniel has done.
17:19.48brlcadfrom your perspective, I think the take-home point is just going to be that there's going to be "some" object that represents/links/is geometry and it is that object that you could cache
17:19.58claymorealso, we will need a way to keep all the geomitry bits unique, so I was thinking of using a long for the OID... which we would have to piggyback as an attribute for now.
17:20.43brlcadyeah, something like that
17:20.43claymoreunderstood, just trying to find the logical point in which to plan to so I am not re-creating work :/
17:20.52brlcadthough longs aren't probably going to be long enough for a UUID
17:21.26brlcadand UUID's are possibly/probably the way to go -- not that they'd get exposed at the GS level though
17:21.52claymore... why not at the GS level?
17:22.19claymoreoh, when I say long, I am referring to an int64  (sorry)
17:23.55claymoreI am thinking that 18,446,744,073,709,551,615 unique peices of geometry should be enough.... don't you?
17:24.32brlcadone of the problems i'm hoping to resolve with the new geometry interfaces is having a unified handle system without having the problems of id->name mappings
17:25.07brlcadthe difference between uuid's and urls and what they imply on referencing as a system of content management
17:26.22claymorenot sure what you are trying to say besides:  each geometry bit needs to be able to be universally and uniquely identified....
17:26.52brlcadclaymore: perhaps, but UUID's are 128-bit -- even less chance for collision and can be used as auto-generated hashes
17:27.16brlcadclaymore: yeah, I'm saying that -- but there are ways you can do that
17:27.28brlcadtake for example how regions are presently identified
17:27.45brlcadthere is an integer that is attached to an object
17:28.14claymoreWhat did you have in mind for the uuid control?  Centralized worldwide server?  or will the UUID's only be Unique and Universal inside the bounds of the an SVN store?
17:28.16brlcadthat integer is then reported by our engine and referenced by the analysis codes to identify objects
17:29.29claymorestares in horror at his use of ingrish.
17:29.31brlcaddon't need/want a centralized server for uuid's -- there are plenty of algorithms that allow for distributed ID generation
17:31.31brlcadeven if you used purely random generation, the chance for collision is something on the order of 2^122 probability
17:31.39claymoreOkay, back to my question of "why wouldn't the uuid be exposed at the GS level?"  I don't see how it couldn't be exposed.  If we are going to not want any ID<->Name mappings, then aren't we going to use the uuid as the sole means of object Lookup and Identification?
17:31.56claymorethose are good odds ;)
17:32.20brlcadpretty damn good odds, and if there is a conflict, you'd probably know about it :)
17:32.26brlcadand you could just ask for another
17:32.54brlcador you'd be just as likely to never run into the duplicate
17:33.33brlcadright, we'd either have to solely use UUID's as the sole means (when just isn't user friendly) or use the name as the sole means (which I'm much more inclined to sort out)
17:34.27brlcadsorting out a global resource identifier that localizes and can map 1-1 with a UUID on the backend (but only on the backend, e.g. svn-level)
17:34.51claymoreWhy not have the code use the UUID as the sole means while any User Interactive aspect just calls the MyGeoObject.getName() function and displays the string?
17:35.24brlcadthat's entirely possible .. just less than ideal
17:35.35brlcadi mean it's the same problem of region idents now
17:35.40brlcadthey were meant to be used that way
17:35.43brlcadbut they're not
17:35.59claymoreBut region id's are not unique....
17:36.07brlcadthey crept into common use through most tools, exposed everywhere through the ui's
17:36.08claymoreso, I think thats a different case.
17:36.55brlcadit is a different case, but the fact that there's a non 1-1 mapping is part of the problem
17:37.40claymoreIn existing BRLCAD databases, the string Name is unique, but the Region ID isn't.  I am proposing that each bit of geometry has a UUID as its 'global' identifier and the Name is just an attribute to be accessed whenever needed.
17:37.50brlcadif the 1-1 problem is taken care of, then there's a lot less incentive for ui creeping
17:38.55claymorejust to understand:  the 1-1 problem is:  We can have to things named 'Bolt' but with different UUIDs.
17:39.10brlcadright
17:39.53brlcadand I get what you're suggesting -- that's certainly doable, but it doesn't address the problem and has a lot to be desired for data management
17:40.05claymoreFurther:  From a user perspective, the only way to ditinguish between both 'Bolt's is to look at the UUID... and thats the 'creep' you are speaking of?
17:40.15brlcadall I'm suggesting that'd be different, actually is a name that includes context so that the names are also unique
17:40.41brlcadright, that'd be one way
17:40.48brlcadthere are other ways for that uuid to creep in
17:41.28brlcadbut then if you can make the "name" actually include context (think URL context or namespace context in code) then you have a 1-1 mapping
17:41.52claymoreHrm, what about this:  
17:41.54brlcadand possible don't even need the uuid, but it's a really efficient hash
17:42.53claymoreEach and every peice of geometry will exist stand alone, but sorted into categories and subcategories.  Think of a large parts wherehouse.
17:44.47claymoreTHe next werehouse over contains lots of 'parts lists' that refer to the individual parts in the first werehouse
17:45.37claymoreso, a 'bolt' isnt a bolt, but rather:  '/hardware/faseners/9.16th/3in/aluminum/bolt.g'
17:46.08brlcadthat's exactly the url context I was referring to :)
17:46.27claymorewell then.... GOOD IDEA ;)
17:46.48brlcadthere are still problems to be solved with that, though
17:47.02claymoredoesn't like the amount of effort it will take to populate the initial parts werehouse :/
17:47.02brlcaduniqueness guarantees are a problem, but potentially minimized
17:47.32claymoreproblems like?
17:50.23brlcadwell that works well for stuff that gets organized as such down the road, but for uniqueness you still want to be able to distinguish between my bolt and your bolt
17:51.01brlcador even at a very basic level -- I make a sphere, you make a sphere -- how can I refer to one vs the other (and potentially still call them both 'sph')
17:52.10brlcadthat's where the rest of a URL comes into the picture, there's an implicit username, working host, and port that are part of every url
17:52.16claymorebut if each object that is checked into the parts werehouse is issued a UUID, then shouldn't that take care of the 'my /hardware/faseners/9.16th/3in/aluminum/bolt.g' vs 'your /hardware/faseners/9.16th/3in/aluminum/bolt.g' ?
17:53.04brlcadthat would, but then it's not 1-1 and you are back to the same problem of having an insufficient context to distinguish objects
17:55.49claymoreSo, to capture yor thoughts, you are ideally thinking that a GeoObject will have a UUID for speed of lookup AND a UUname for easy human identification?
17:55.51brlcadit's not a huge issue, the problem has been pretty much solved for distributed cms and distributed scm's
17:56.12brlcadyeah, basically
17:57.04claymoreJust to re-inforce my understanding....
17:57.56brlcadeven if only a portion of the UUname is displayed most of the time (e.g. "bolt" instead of "cad://loman@fe80::21b:63ff:fe03:3cdf%en1/hardware/faseners/9.16th/3in/aluminum/bolt")
17:59.25claymoreOkay, I understand that.  But how/where will the svn side look when its all checked in?  Where will the username and host be stored?
18:00.25claymorein a /hardware/faseners/9.16th/3in/aluminum/versions.file' ?
18:05.52brlcadthat's all TBD, but the UUID could be useful there
18:06.13brlcade.g. using a non-hierarchical or simple two-level hierarchy instead of having the entire hierarchy on disk as a hierarchy (because it's technically not a hierarchy, it's a graph)
18:07.57brlcadI think that'll be more apparent once we start hooking in the svn libs
18:09.15claymoreHrm, okay.  Got time for more Brain picking?
18:10.50brlcadis just coding, been coding non-stop since friday
18:11.16brlcadunfortunately in a non-compile state that entire time, or there would have been dozens of commits .. but just about to start the flow back up :)
18:12.20claymorefar be it for me to slow your roll, but I'll keep firing Q's then ;)
18:12.55brlcadsings, "it's a small world" .. http://www.flickr.com/photos/36383814@N00/2989996039/sizes/o/in/pool-930035@N21/
18:15.37claymoreI see  two troublemakers....
18:16.20louipcwow that's trippy
18:16.58claymoreactually feels like throwing up now.
18:18.02claymorenot enough chicks imo.
18:18.11brlcadindeed
18:18.16brlcadhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/halostatue/2996087302/sizes/o/in/pool-930035@N21/
18:18.18claymorewonders when he gets to go to a conference.....
18:18.47brlcadhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/halostatue/2996023060/sizes/o/in/pool-930035@N21/
18:20.18claymorewell hell, did you all do anything else besides take pictures?!
18:22.01claymorebrlcad:  where was that held?
18:24.21brlcadat the googleplex
18:24.32brlcadmountain view, CA
18:24.53brlcadthere are a bunch of other pictures on flickr from others
18:25.30brlcadhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/googlesummerofcode/
18:26.28brlcadthere are other better tags, but that's a jumping point
18:28.17brlcadhttp://www.flickr.com/groups/930035@N21/
18:29.05claymoreLooks like fun.  Big of a sausage fest, but still fun :P
18:29.16claymorebig = bit.
18:29.35brlcadyeah, huge sausage fest
18:30.39brlcadactually above industry average .. I think it was quoted as around 6% at the summit, but average for OSS is something like 2.5%
18:31.27louipcmore guys into open source?
18:31.40brlcadyeah, a lot more
18:31.55brlcadaverage for CS is in the low teens iirc
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18:37.42claymorebrlcad:  Back to the GS:  To simplify things, would making the .g file name the same as the object in it be a smart thing to do?  aka Bolt.g has /Bolt.s inside it?
18:39.05``Erik_*burp*
18:41.37brlcadclaymore: hm, why does that matter? :)
18:42.19claymoreYou're right.  If we are going to do it stupid, we're going to do it MY WAY.  MUWAHAHAHA.
18:43.03claymoreAlso, how are we going to represent combinations and regions?  Text files?
18:44.01brlcadobjects like all others, they way they presently are
18:44.36claymoreI ment how in the svn repository?
18:44.44brlcaddoes too :)
18:45.26brlcadthey have most of the same requirements as any other objects
18:45.37claymoreso, a region will be its own .g, with no geometry in it?  If thats the case, how do we link the Region members to the geometry, via the UUID or the UUName?
18:47.03brlcadit is "geometry", just potentially without an evaluated form (or maybe it does exist)
18:47.56brlcadthey way it presently works is via locally scoped (file-scoped) name references -- that would have to change to a UUName
18:48.45claymoreWill the current character-rules allow us to use all the characters in the 'url' in an BRL-CAD object name?
18:50.09brlcadoh, there may be some things that need slight changing, but there aren't any at the moment that jump out as being a problem
18:51.30claymoreOkay.  Now when it comes to the svn 'heirarchy' were you saying that there shouldn't be a heirarchy?  I got confused with what you were saying.
18:52.12brlcadthey get stored as plan c-strings, so pretty much anything goes at the storage level -- it'd only be places in the processing that might need to be changed
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18:52.50brlcadthere isn't exactly a geoemtry hierarchy, so representing geometry hierarchically in the revision store is problematic
18:53.28brlcadif we required a filestore that supported hard links of directories, that might be possible, or if we stash some form of soft links it might work
18:53.47claymoresoft link?
18:53.54brlcadwe talk about it as a hierarchy, but it's really an acyclic graph
18:55.21claymore'what' is a dag?
18:55.26brlcadsoft links are probably the way to go, just because it'll be really cool to check out entire subtree categories of geometry .. but it'll be tricky
18:55.47brlcadhm?
18:56.00brlcaddirected acyclic graph ..
18:56.09claymorethinking heirarchially (is that a word?):
18:56.23brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed_acyclic_graph
18:56.32claymoreI am seeing two top level groups:  /parts and /models
18:56.59claymoreinside parts are mere organizational subdirectories... as many as are needed.
18:57.16claymoreat the bottom level of the /parts 'tree' are the actual .g files.
18:57.29claymoreand all the vairous versions of individual .g files.
18:57.37brlcadthe line between parts and models is really context-driven
18:57.44claymoreexactly.
18:57.59mafmI go home, take care
18:58.56brlcadfor one domain, it's one level, for another it's entirely different -- so I'm really not inclined to say "that line is here" in the geometry or even to prescribe an organization -- that can be up to users to a large extent
18:59.26claymorenow inside '/models' are all the subdirectorys to organize however the 'company in question' wants to organize it.
18:59.28brlcadfrom a geometry management perspective, the issues worth tracking are when something goes from being a shape to representing something solid
18:59.48brlcadand whether the geometry is fully-resolved, fully-constrained, etc
19:01.44claymorethe problem is, I see a 'chicken or the egg' scenario here.  We can't fully abstract the data store methodolgy.  There has to be some standards set down.
19:02.19brlcad"We can't fully abstract the data store methodolgy" .. means what?
19:02.29brlcadwe're using a fully abstracted data store for the revision control
19:02.56brlcadso by default that would extend to us, we only constrain it on our end via what we support or don't support
19:03.05claymoreis thinking...
19:04.48claymoreOkay, Understanding that SVN will do whatever we want...
19:05.24claymoreand that we intend to store Combination.g's Region.g's and Solid.g's
19:05.46claymorein what ever heirarchy we want.
19:05.48brlcaddon't think of them in that regard -- they're just "objects"
19:05.55brlcadwe have geometry objects and non-geometry objects
19:06.30brlcadthose objects become files (or maybe directories) in the revision store
19:07.14brlcadbut yeah, any hierarchy or non-hierarhy we want -- I mean we could store absolutely everything in one massive .g file, all revisions, all data, and that would actually work
19:07.29brlcadit's just unclean and would be ill-constructed (particularly for revision tracking)
19:07.42claymoreBrlcadObj is the abstract then.  GeoObj isa BrlcadObj, NonGeoObj isa BrlcadObj, Comb isa GeoObj, etc, etc...
19:08.35brlcads/Brlcad/Database/ I believe is how it's been referred to thusfar
19:08.54brlcadbut yeah, sorta
19:09.12brlcadthat's where a lot of that is already sorted out (or at least should be sorted out) on the GE side of things
19:09.13claymore' s/Brlcad/Database/' = ???
19:09.31brlcadah, s/// is a substitution pattern :)
19:09.42brlcadsubstitute this for that
19:10.03claymoreyou just lost me.
19:10.07brlcadecho "substitute this for that" | sed 's/this/that/'
19:10.12brlcadsubstitute that for that
19:10.31claymoregot that, just failing to see how it applied :/
19:10.58brlcadcommon ircism -- means referring to some previous statement, apply the replacement
19:11.20``Erik_vi ftw
19:11.30claymoreis fixing the train of thought derailment in is head.... one moment please :)
19:11.33brlcadyour statement in that case -- they've been referred to as DatabaseObject's
19:12.00claymorewho reffered to them as that?
19:12.01brlcadthere's little value in using our name over saying what we think it is
19:12.10brlcadlibrt refers to them as that
19:12.47claymoreah, okay.
19:12.56brlcadjbrlcad does as well, don't recall whether daniel preserved that
19:13.05claymorewhere is daniels work?
19:13.56brlcadjust saying from a nomenclature perspective, really should avoid pronouns in the name where they describe a more general concept
19:14.42brlcadthat's a general point of rule for any system really, they usually end up being turds or opaque objects an external viewer
19:14.47``Erik_class Thing :: Stuff {
19:14.54brlcade.g. our few "MUVES" routines in librt.. very turdish
19:15.21brlcadthere is an underlying concept that they represent, that should have been used to name them instead of "the way those guys do it"
19:16.57brlcadthinks he should push a tarball before merging his changes
19:17.08claymoreokay, back on track:  Pertaining to the svn store, if all the combination and region objects contain references to other UUNames (aka fully qualified paths) then is it still a dag?
19:17.28claymorereword:
19:17.39claymoreokay, back on track:  Pertaining to the svn store, if all the combination and region objects contain references to other objects via UUNames (aka fully qualified paths) then is it still a dag?
19:18.29brlcadyep, it still represents the same thing
19:19.34claymorerecap:  Svn lookup should be via the UUName but inmemory referencing should be via the UUID for speed?
19:19.56brlcadCSG construction is (usually) inherintly described by a DAG, when can be restructured or displayed as a tree, even a binary tree -- but they're non-unique nodes
19:21.12brlcadprobably, but i don't think that's a decision that has to be made now really
19:21.19brlcadjust more designing it such that the user never has to see/know that there's a UUID as a constraint
19:22.02brlcadsolving local naming (i.e. UUnames) for the usability aspects
19:22.22brlcadand then using UUIDs where it makes sense (for performance or ease of management, etc)
19:24.18claymorewhere is Daniels GE work?
19:24.29brlcadhe checked it in
19:25.06claymorebrlcad, rt^3 ?
19:25.11brlcadyes
19:27.26claymorejust not used to the layout of directories yet... difficult to see where one aspect starts and the other stops....
19:28.21brlcadit's not cleaned up yet, it's rather lacking unification
19:29.53brlcadit's common "nibm"itiz .. everyone that's been committing has been ignoring what everyone else does
19:36.50claymoreneeds caffine.....
19:40.03claymoreIn relation to the GS: Could you compare/contrast a single proces, multithreaded approach to a multiprocess approach?
19:41.27brlcadfor what we're doing, the difference is pretty insignficant (and if either is done well, it becomes even less important)
19:41.59brlcadmultiprocess is easier to stab up on *nix platforms, but interprocess communication is a pita
19:42.54brlcadmultithreaded is easier to intercommunicate if needed and better for portability, but can quickly get mired in deadlock and obscure bugs
19:47.00brlcadpervasive multithreaded is usually *very* hard to do well and even harder to maintain, high-level parallelism is usually a lot easier to manage over a long haul
19:49.03claymoreif you had a choice, whats yoru pick?
19:55.03brlcadhigh-level parallelism where it's useful, where you have fairly independent tasks
19:56.04brlcadif it's high-level, it doesn't really matter if you use threads or forked processes
19:56.29brlcade.g. bu_parallel is meant for such a level of parallelism during ray-tracing
19:57.08brlcadthe backend implementation uses both threads and procs, depending on the platform, performance, simplicity, etc
20:07.23CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33108 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c: Turn init routines for the older tcl interfaces back on for now.
20:20.58claymorewhat is the advantage to having both db internal and db external structs?
20:22.37CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33109 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libgcv/: ignore generated files/dirs
20:23.55brlcadexternal is fully serialized, 1-1 mapping with disk data
20:24.30brlcadinternal is uncracked just enough to serve as an object directory so you can see what is on disk
20:25.00brlcadbig impact on performance
20:25.00claymoreso External is a 'bookmark' of sorts?
20:25.15brlcadmm, doesn't sound right
20:25.28brlcadmore of an opaque bag of bytes
20:25.43claymorecan a dbExternal write to disk?
20:26.05brlcadi don't know what you're looking at
20:26.25brlcadin general for librt, though, a db_external is (exactly) what is written to disk
20:26.46claymoreI am correlating jBrlcad with brlcad
20:27.25brlcadit only correlates with (a small portion) of librt, but okay :)
20:27.53claymoreSo in an OO setting, a DB_external *could* write itself to disk, but in straight C, something writes the the db_external to disk.
20:28.08brlcadright
20:28.34brlcadlibrt being procedural and data-driven, there are structures and collections of routines that work on those structures and go to/from other structures
20:28.53brlcadso there are a slew of routines that deal with db_externals .. and another set that deal with db_internals
20:30.39claymoreI am just wondering, in an OO setting like jBrlcad, wouldn't it make sense to combine db_internals and db_externals?  They are very close to being the same....
20:33.29brlcadthey're just as close to being the same on the procedural side
20:33.38brlcadbeing OO doesn't change that one bit
20:34.31claymoreokay.. regardless, wouldn't it simplifiy things a bit?
20:34.54brlcadremoving functionality usually does
20:35.24claymorehow would merging the two structs remove functionality?
20:36.31brlcadwell, let me ask you -- why do you suppose the effort would have been taken to separate them out in the first place?
20:38.05claymoreI don't know, thats why I am asking you.  They could have been seperate by design from the begining and have just never been refactored due to time required...
20:39.11brlcadnah, v5 databases are the fifth major refactoring of the geometry I/O layer
20:39.44brlcadthe performance impact is really substantial, you only unpack exactly what is needed when you need it
20:40.40claymoreSo, at any given time, there is a db_internal instance and a db_external instance for every object in the db?
20:40.41brlcadthe alternate is usually unpacking everything or storing data unserialized
20:41.26brlcadno, internals only if they're actively being used for something
20:42.04claymoreah, now *that* makes sense.  thanks ;)
20:42.19brlcadexternals are the pointers to the disk records
20:42.52brlcadand can actually be the exact bytes on disk, you could memory map a file, point some pointers to the data, and they'll be valid externals
20:45.34claymorehas thought/learned himself into a headache. Time for home.
20:45.37claymorelata
20:45.42brlcadcya!
20:54.18starseekerbrlcad:  Are you building a release tarball?
20:54.35starseekerdoesn't know if he should commit more man1 pages right now...
21:01.50``Erik_three hundred forty undecillion two hundred eighty-two decillion three hundred sixty-six nonillion nine hundred twenty octillion nine hundred thirty-eight septillion four hundred sixty-three sextillion four hundred sixty-three quintillion three hundred seventy-four quadrillion six hundred seven trillion four hundred thirty-one billion seven hundred sixty-eight million two hundred eleven thousand four hundred and fifty-six is sufficient,
21:02.17starseekersufficient what?  hard disk space?
21:02.30``Erik_unique pieces of geometry
21:02.36starseekerah
21:05.44*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-69-135.dclient.hispeed.ch)
21:16.23brlcadstarseeker: trying to
21:16.27brlcaddoing testing now
21:18.31starseekerOK - should I hold commits for a bit?
21:19.59CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33110 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (conv/dxf/ libgcv/): more ignores
21:20.34brlcadstarseeker: ideally
21:20.36CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33111 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/: ignore metaball product
21:20.41starseekerok
21:20.45starseekerwill do
21:20.47brlcadunless they're cleanup/fixes
21:20.55starseekerdid you suck in bob's g_qa changes?
21:21.11brlcadyeah :/
21:21.15brlcadhad to start all over
21:21.41starseekerthat should probably be a NEWS item unless you want to back up to the revision before that
21:21.51starseekerapparently he ported it to Windows
21:22.30CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33112 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkhtml3/: ignore Makefile
21:22.57brlcaddepends if the tests pass
21:45.17brlcadaaand, fail
21:45.23brlcadgqa crashes
21:45.28brlcadfails basic regression test
22:13.36*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5B14FC70.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:15.40brlcadsighs
22:43.05CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33113 10/brlcad/trunk/ (18 files in 9 dirs): revert the g_qa port to windows and addition to g_qa until after this release (revert r33107). it's crashing and infinite looping on at least Mac and Linux (and the regression tests are epic fail).
23:03.54``Erik_http://fc47.deviantart.com/fs14/f/2007/005/e/0/The_Simpsonzu_by_spacecoyote.jpg   O.o
23:11.44``Erikdo we guarantee acyclicity of the graph? O.o
23:38.05CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33114 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/wdb.c: wdb_fflush is unnecessary. all db io operations are automatically flushed all the time after every db_write and during db_close.
23:39.34``Erik_poo
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081104

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081104

02:12.16*** join/#brlcad ``Erik_ (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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02:54.39brlcadstarseeker: did you do an svn cp last time you sync'd to stable?
03:45.37starseekerI believe so
03:45.50starseekerthe tree was too diverged for any sort of sane sync
04:00.55yukonbobhello, cadheds
04:00.57yukonbob*heads
04:25.28``Erik_<-- rubs his wallet cheek :(
04:25.32``Erik_I ordered a new macbook
04:26.48Ralithouch
04:28.20``Erik_the last hackintop I bought lasted me ~6 years, hopefully this does the same
04:31.27yukonboboO
04:31.43yukonbobthought ``Erik_ was a core *BSD user...
04:33.33``Erik_MacOSX is a fbsd userland glued ontop of a MACH microkenrel
04:33.37``Erik_:D
04:36.45Ralithexcept for the completely alien GUI and administrative tools and daemons and configuration system and ...
04:36.46Ralith:D
04:38.57``Erik_yeah... yeah... *shrug*
04:39.41``Erik_sure beats the alternatives,t hough, I mean, osX is far better than leenewx or *shudder* winderz
04:39.58Ralith<3 freebsd
04:40.10Ralithosx is pretty shiny though, I'll give you that
04:40.21starseekergo gentoo - bsd like package control, and all the pretty poorly written stuff works too :-)
04:40.53``Erik_um, sorry, cliff, I involved myself in kernel development at one point...
04:41.02``Erik_no matter how much you dress up a linux, it's still a linux :(
04:41.22starseekerheh
04:41.28starseekerstill doing kernel stuff?
04:42.14``Erik_I think one of the reasons I like the BSD's so much is that they're fairly strict... if you write on BSD, it 'just works' on solaris, linux, hpux, aix, etc... if you write on linux, well, it works on, uh, some versions of linux... that's it...
04:42.49``Erik_um, been a couple weeks since I've poked at kernelstuff, but I saw something this evening that makes me want to go back with a vengence
04:42.53Ralithmy gripe with gentoo was, aside from the generic linux kernel issues, the package management was a breakage-prone ports-wannabe.
04:43.18starseekerreally?  I've had pretty good luck with it
04:43.33``Erik_see, that's the problem, dude... "good luck" with it...
04:43.43``Erik_the bsd poirt system is just fucking there, goddamnit
04:43.49starseekerheh
04:44.05``Erik_macports is driving me up the wall being 99.9% ok, it's TOO SHITTY
04:44.22yukonbob[hearts] NetBSD
04:44.27``Erik_the notion that anything could fail... ever... drives me buggy
04:45.08Ralith``Erik_, re: portage, exactly!
04:45.19Ralithports only breaks things if you ask it to ^^
04:46.23starseeker<snort> ``Erik, so you really want a working Coyotos?  http://www.coyotos.org/
04:46.36yukonbobfinds FreeBSD ports a bit fragile compared to NetBSD pkgsrc, but still likes ports... but I've had great success w/ Debian dpkg too, so...
04:46.54Ralithcoyotos is really neat looking
04:47.12RalithI wish there was some sort of standardized ABI for device drivers so it was practical to use research OSs like that :(
04:48.07``Erik_debian tends to be solid, but insanely obsolete... haven't tried netbsd *shrug*
04:48.37RalithNetBSD was pretty tempting
04:48.53starseekerdid an ask slashdot about graphics drivers some time back - apparently the problem is they like sticking low level logic into the kernel driver, because it saves them chip complexity
04:48.55Ralithbut FreeBSD's hardware support was moreso.
04:49.00yukonbobNetBSD just branched 5...
04:49.22RalithI'm on a laptop so I can't muck about with iffy hardware support
04:49.39yukonbobRalith: what kind of hardware are you worried about?
04:49.54starseekerhunts slashdot archives...
04:50.07``Erik_nvidia does that, starseeker, and until about ten years ago, that was an issue for fbsd...
04:50.10Ralithyukonbob, well, laptopness aside, 3D accel is a huge bonus.
04:50.17``Erik_then nvidia started pushing out fbsddrivers... heh
04:50.20Ralithand nvidia supports freebsd, so ^^
04:50.46``Erik_I think I've forced nvidias hand a couple times, both as a driver writer for the earlier ones and as a whiney consumer for the later ones
04:50.48starseeker``Erik:  heh
04:51.02Ralithcool!
04:51.17starseekerah, yes - http://ask.slashdot.org/askslashdot/06/07/30/0013241.shtml
04:51.20yukonbobRalith: ya -- I think if you're nVidia, you're windows/linux/freebsd/mac os x....
04:51.34Ralithanyone know if nvidia's planning on following AMD with the whole opening the specs thing?
04:51.39yukonbobnet/open/dragonfly, etc are currently out of luck...
04:51.58yukonbobotherwise, even Open has accellerated X these days (for Intel, ATI, etc.)
04:52.01starseekerRalith:  I've heard no sign of it
04:52.11Ralithaw.
04:52.20starseekerand I don't think the really critical ATI stuff is out yet, is it?
04:52.27starseekermay have missed another one...
04:52.33RalithI'm not sure
04:52.37Ralithbut if it isn't, it's coming, right?
04:52.50starseekertheoretically
04:52.56Raliththey released the 2D docs
04:53.04starseekerunless management changes before they get it released...
04:53.09Ralith:/
04:53.19Ralithit's an awfully big PR deal for it to be pulled back
04:54.49starseekernever undestimates the capacity of corporate american managers for stupidity
04:55.02Ralithoh well.
04:55.18yukonbobs/american//
04:55.23Ralithd'ya think larabee will be portable?
04:55.34starseekermore probable, in this case, is the lawyers putting up N roadblocks
04:55.38starseekerwhere N is large
04:55.41Ralithyeah
04:55.44Ralithbut finite.
04:55.57Ralithis hopeful.
04:56.14Ralithhowever, if Intel succeeds in changing the game, their history of good support is pretty encouraging
04:56.21starseekertrue
04:56.38starseekerwould consider an opengraphics card, even if it's not "state of the art"
04:56.56Ralithgames, so performance is pretty important
04:57.09starseekeras long as it can do bzflag ;-)
04:57.12Ralithhehe
04:57.16Ralithbzflag angers me
04:57.29Raliththe physics are too simple and it's too easy to die
04:58.42starseekergets killed regardless of the physics
04:59.35Ralithhehe
04:59.49Ralithnow nethack
04:59.50Raliththere's a good game.
05:00.34starseekernever fell prey to nethack
05:02.20yukonbobisn't there an annual nethack competition underway right now?
05:03.47Ralithstarseeker, learn it!
05:03.49Ralithit is amazing.
05:04.09Ralithyukonbob, Iunno, I'm not nearly good enough to compete.
05:04.19RalithI've never even made it to sokoban.
05:04.42RalithI've had awesome fun wrecking the gnomish mines though
05:04.56RalithI've even killed shopkeepers ^^
05:05.24starseekerdoesn't have enough time for the things he wants to do now - nethack would be fatal! ;-)
05:05.47Ralithnethack is turnbased! It is incapable of consuming more time than you grant it.
05:06.07yukonbobyup -- 10th annual International Nethack Tournament at nethack.devnull.net....
05:09.33starseekerlooks forward to presidential election being done with
05:10.18starseekerRalith:  Isn't nethack the program that spawned the famous "Thank you for the newest release of gradewrecker..." comment?
05:10.45Ralithnever heard about that
05:11.09brlcadword.
05:11.27yukonbobdude.
05:11.46Ralithlooks like it.
05:12.00starseekerThank you for the latest release of gradewrecker. My GPA just went in the corner and shot itself.
05:12.04starseeker-- USENET posting, author unknown
05:12.13starseekeron nethack.org homepage :-)
05:12.29Ralithbut you know what's cooler than nethack
05:12.32Ralithslashem.
05:12.48Ralithit's basically nethack-CURRENT except more experimental ^^
05:13.02Ralithalso harder to beat.
05:13.04starseekerbrlcad:  Anything I can help with?  saw the g_qa revert, did that do it?
05:13.12starseekerRalith:  wow
05:13.22starseekerthat's scary
05:13.36RalithI've been playing as a doppleganger monk
05:13.51brlcadstarseeker: I'm working on the merge now
05:14.01RalithI usually die when I hit level 10, polymorph into a dragon, and overestimate my uberness >_>
05:14.26brlcadstarseeker: you can probably help test stable after it's merged
05:14.38starseekerok
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08:24.22brlcadthat took way way too long
08:27.23clock_brlcad: who are you for, I am for the President from Hawaii :)
08:29.13CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33115 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/ (2215 files in 427 dirs):
08:29.13CIA-24BRL-CAD: big ultra mega merge from r32275 to r33114 (HEAD on trunk) in preparation for
08:29.13CIA-24BRL-CAD: the pending 7.14.0 source release. that was absurdly painful to merge, diff,
08:29.13CIA-24BRL-CAD: and repair by hand. this is untested (compilation-wise) but it should sync it
08:29.14CIA-24BRL-CAD: with 33114 which has been tested.
08:30.22CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33116 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: today is release day, stamp the news
08:31.16CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33117 10/brlcad/trunk/include/conf/MINOR: and it shall be 14, so sayeth we all
08:37.57CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33118 10/brlcad/trunk/ChangeLog: update changelog to all changes from 2008-08-19 through today on trunk
08:38.58CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33119 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING: HEAD revision needs to come first on the svn2cl command so that the entries are in stack order (with latest on top like NEWS file
08:56.46brlcadnotes that tkhtml3 presently fails on solaris
08:57.07brlcader, bsd -- wrong system
08:57.30brlcadjust missing headers, insignificant
09:07.53CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33120 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkhtml3/Makefile.in: turn it into a simple .c.o rule without the dependency for bsd make portability
09:14.56AFK-claymoreyawns
09:15.10CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33121 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkhtml3/Makefile.in: wow, and it's not even valid. the libraries rule is missing. stub an empty one.
09:15.25brlcadthrows a cheeto in AFK-claymore's mouth
09:25.24claymorenom nom nom nom nom's
09:26.08claymoreUnfortuneately, cheetos are on my list of fav's.
09:27.39claymoreWell, looks like tonights TV is shot :/
09:30.52brlcadunfortunately?
09:31.05CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33122 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/ (5 files in 3 dirs): merge 33114:33121 from trunk, preparing for release
09:31.05brlcadcheetos rock
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09:33.30CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33123 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: include libgcv in the dist for release
09:35.42CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33124 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: minimerge
09:35.56claymorebrlcad:  Hows the congestion?
09:36.33brlcadbetter
09:37.13claymoregood deal.  You @work or @home?
09:37.56brlcadhome, I'll be in later today .. maybe get a couple hours rest for good measure just to make sure it's gone
09:38.11brlcadas soon as I tag this release at least
09:38.22claymorerock on.  Take two cheetos and get some rest.  ;)
09:38.36claymorePeace, I out.  Gonna get my breakfast on.
09:39.33brlcadspent hours fighting a merge only to realize several hours into it that I was doing it wrong .. which is what caused hundreds of conflicts and errors that I went manually fixing
09:39.37brlcadsuckage
09:39.48brlcadmy suck
09:40.09brlcadoh well, it's all coming together now at least
09:44.26CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33125 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/sh/cmakecheck.sh: look for libgcv files too
09:45.38CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33126 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/cmakecheck.sh: look for libgcv cmake files too
09:47.23CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33127 10/brlcad/tags/rel-7-14-0/: tag release 7.14.0
09:49.47CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33128 10/brlcad/trunk/ (README include/conf/PATCH): bump to 7.14.1 immediately after tagging, back to dev revision. anticipate next release as 7.14.2
11:29.47*** join/#brlcad ``Erik_ (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
11:31.19*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
11:31.59mafmhi
11:35.57claymorehai!
11:46.20claymorehuh, this looks pretty cool:  http://atlantica.ndoorsgames.com/
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12:33.53claymorewhat *is* rt^3 exactly?
12:37.57claymorenm
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13:02.52``Erik_heh
13:03.06claymoreMernin Erik.
13:03.09``Erik_if anyone is still wondering, it was a trivial raytracer written to explore the 'agile' development method
13:03.31claymorert^3?
13:03.40``Erik_I believe so... top level in the svn repo?
13:03.48``Erik_dates should all read, um, '03
13:04.09claymoreyeah.  Agile eh?  looks more like an unorganized, steaming pile of.... code.
13:04.56``Erik_:D well, some folk were saying "this RIVA thing sounds important, waterfall is epic fail, what can we do better? "agile" is buzzy, lets see how it works"
13:06.39mafmclaymore: my project is in there
13:06.46``Erik_hrm
13:06.56``Erik_ohh, that's right, you hijacked that toplevel
13:07.05mafma viewer with opengl, 3D
13:07.07``Erik_forgot about that, sorry :)
13:07.20mafmthe ^3 part is supposed to be because of that
13:07.37claymoremafm: right, been looking at your code.  Good stuff btw ;)
13:07.39mafmbut I don't know the original purpose of that module
13:07.40``Erik_unless I'm thinking about another project, which might be possible
13:07.55``Erik_I thought it was rt^3, might be lrt or something
13:07.56``Erik_:/
13:08.01``Erik_I'm old, my memory is shot :D
13:08.06mafmthere's somebody making a geometry server/service in there, davidsomething
13:08.15``Erik_david blows-men ?
13:08.20``Erik_loman?
13:08.24mafmthink so
13:08.29``Erik_yeah, he's a prick
13:08.37``Erik_you should totally kick his ass, mafm :D
13:08.38claymoreI am just trying to figure out a place for my project to rest/start in.... wondering if I should start a new top level or re-organize rt^3...
13:08.42mafmwhy? :)
13:08.42claymorelol
13:08.47``Erik_cuz he's claymore
13:08.49``Erik_*point*
13:08.53claymorehides
13:09.02``Erik_:D
13:09.04isnotclaymore:D
13:09.34``Erik_(what's the phrase? "outed"? sorry, dude :)
13:09.58mafmhmm
13:10.02claymoreratted out more likely
13:10.21claymoremafm:  Your work is for a protoype GUI for the next gen BRL-CAD, correct?
13:10.30mafmso if claymore is David Loman, he should already know what rt^3 is for, I guess :)
13:10.38claymorekinda.
13:10.48``Erik_I think the geometry server effort will radically change the approach to geometry creation, and may be massively significant for geometry translation
13:10.51claymoreI know what its being used for NOW, but there seems to be some legacy code in there
13:11.00mafmit's supposed to be a GUI, thin client for using a geometry service, using libged as backend
13:11.15``Erik_knowing the history and legacy is radically different than knowing what is going on now
13:11.37louipcgeometry server eh?
13:11.51claymoreI know, but there is this unsung rule in OS that if you move/delete legacy code, you get vegatables thrown at you.
13:12.00``Erik_I think it's important to explore that history, but I've become a nut about history and archeology, so I may be weird
13:12.18``Erik_VCS lets you clean without expunging history
13:12.23claymorewell you *are* wierd, but that has no bearing on the current topic of discussion :P
13:13.18claymoreI am working on a high level UML layout of the 'GeometryService' right now... but I think, after many lengthy discussions with Sean, that its grown past a 'GeometryServer'
13:13.30``Erik_it's all revision controlled and if crap that shouldn't be there is lingering, delete it... it's in the repo *shrug* :) my personal take, so'z don't hold me to that
13:13.59claymorewrites down "Erik said to..."
13:14.34``Erik_do you have plans to move your effort into the brlcad module?
13:14.51``Erik_or are you content with the dependancy chain?
13:16.24``Erik_ordered a mac last night, feels poor :(
13:16.58claymoreErik:  I dunno, thats my problem... its not rt^3, its not brlcad....so where do I put it?
13:17.50``Erik_if you think it's appropriate, you can always make a new toplevle
13:17.55``Erik_I did with rtcmp
13:18.36``Erik_I'll probably put the gui chunk of twingy's ISST in as a top-level, since I don't want to induce a GTK+ dependancy into BRL-CAD
13:18.42mafmI think that rt3 became the shed for all this experimental/new stuff
13:18.53``Erik_and move the MySQL stuff out of BRL-CAD and into the ISST bit
13:20.28``Erik_I'm feeling like my "zomfg, stop talking to [stop]" statement failed :/
13:21.06claymoreErik: Whats the specs on your Mac?
13:21.28``Erik_base line new macbook, 4g ram, dvi dongle, and carrying case
13:21.41claymoreErik:  Swing my my office sometime so I can bounce a few questions off ya>?
13:21.59``Erik_thinking down the road, I might be a 750gb drive to slap in, but don't need that yet... the 2.0ghz cpu should be plenty, and the nvidia 9400m should be permissable
13:22.09``Erik_'k, it'll be a bit, I'm still at home
13:22.23``Erik_going to swing by the voter thingy, then cruise in and work a late day
13:24.23claymorenice.  About the politics thing:  I honestly stopped liking either of them a long time ago, I am just very eager to see how this whole thing plays out.... that and i really want those stupid waste-of-my-life commercials to go away...
13:24.41claymoremafm:  yeah, I think rt^3 is the sandbox ;)
13:24.43``Erik_are you voting after work?
13:25.04``Erik_mebbe we'll have a nice big lunch tomorrow and we can mock eachother over choices for a while :D
13:25.10claymoreYeah, there is a place 1/2 mile down the road from my house.
13:25.56claymoreI won't remember who I vote for.  I am going to choose 'c' for all my answers.  Let the best man picked by random choise win!
13:26.03claymoremuwahaha.
13:26.47``Erik_heh, I have a bunch of 1 party shit on mine :(
13:27.29claymoreyeah, a party is a party.  BYOB and see if they let you vote.  Claim you heard there was gonna be a couple parties here.
13:27.44``Erik_"Angela M. Eaves -or- Write in"
13:28.07``Erik_Continuance of joseph Murphy Jr: Yes -or- No
13:28.16``Erik_many continuance onces
13:28.18``Erik_ones
13:28.18PrezKennedyi wrote in my choice for president :)
13:28.49PrezKennedyi lost any hope of McCain or Obama not being jackasses
13:28.49``Erik_... I somehow doubt "darth maul" is a valid candidate, dude
13:28.57PrezKennedyi put ralph wiggum
13:29.23claymoreI feel like my vote for jack Bauer is wasted....
13:29.52``Erik_I'm voting for captain mal, he kicks cockbites into spacecraft engines
13:30.00claymorelol
13:31.02claymoreOnly the *cool* captains maintain a crew that consists of outlaws, trigger-happy dimwits and a whore or two.
13:31.35PrezKennedywatched serenity on halloween :)
13:31.43``Erik_gotta admit, whedon did a remarkable job making tragically awesome characters
13:32.03claymoreNow if Mal were president, we would have cooler reasons for going to war:  "I aim to misbehaive..."
13:32.10``Erik_if you read up on the inside scoup of that series, all the fucktarded lame shit was demanded by fox, not part of the original vision
13:32.32claymoreYeah, I remember reading that Fox basically killed the series.
13:33.02``Erik_the dudes with the blue gloves were not part of the story... it was fox trying to make it "epic", and of course, showing the series out of order and at incredibly random times... heh
13:33.25claymoreSerinity was *ok* but I really don't like Joss's habit of killing off major characters.
13:33.48claymoreI mean, we never got to see why Book had all those Alliance connections...
13:34.02``Erik_it was upsetting, but I understand what he was doing... he'd given up on reviving the series, he wanted the story to conclude
13:34.15claymoreIf Book turned out to be a badass Preacher-Ninja... that would have been toooo awesome.
13:34.31``Erik_yeah, ron glass is awesome
13:34.53``Erik_given that he was raised christian and turned buddist, that was a neat role for him :)
13:35.04claymoreWell cast then!
13:35.23claymoreBah.  Boss alert.  need to keep Architecting :/
16:12.04claymorebrlcad:  lemme know when you are awake!
16:24.05CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33129 10/iBME/: Making Directory Structure for iBME (Integrated BrlCad Modeling Environment). Ultimately, the iBME will consist of the new GUI, the Geometry Service and the Geometry Engine.
16:26.31brlcad``Erik_: rt^3 wasn't the agile project -- that project was never migrated (though I do have the sources somewhere)
16:26.47brlcadit was called something like SimpleRT
16:27.07brlcadmy server (in storage) knows all
16:27.52claymoreAll hail MyServer (in storage).  Great and mighty MyServer (in storage).
16:28.22brlcadyeah, lrt .. LittleRT
16:30.05claymoreGet any rest?
16:31.39brlcadclaymore: cool, that's what I did for my SATs -- c, c, c, c .. :)
16:35.18brlcadclaymore: enough
16:35.50brlcadfwiw, rt^3 is *exactly* what you described iBME to be -- "Ultimately, the iBME will consist of the new  GUI, the Geometry Service and the Geometry Engine.
16:36.17brlcadjust replace iBME with rt^3 and you have the same deal
16:36.50claymoreso are there any issues with me starting a new top level?  rt^3 seems cluttered and I am not knowledgeable enough to clean it up.
16:39.29brlcadwell, the code bases are going to have to get merged and cleaned up at some point, so overall a new module is just making more work for someone later
16:39.54claymoreHrm :/ Okay, if you say so.
16:39.59brlcadthere is some clutter -- it's what I was referring to yesterday about people not working together yet :)
16:40.29brlcadwhich is just my bad not getting things sorted out project-management-wise just yet
16:40.52claymoreWell I am gong to take charge and whip it into shape.  *Cracks whip*
16:41.54PrezKennedyoutsource it to a contractor to manage!
16:42.01brlcadthe bigger issue is going to be getting things organized and documented for collaborative growth, and then taking the pains to ensure everyone is up to speed and it's not just being dictated
16:42.03PrezKennedyeyes the room
16:42.16claymoreYou in at all today?
16:42.24brlcadyeah, on my way soon
16:42.42claymoreK, I have been architecting and wanna bounce things off your brain at some point.
16:51.02brlcadnods
16:51.39claymoreI think Erik is stirring up a Japan House run.
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16:58.20PrezKennedywe're going to chinese!
16:58.34PrezKennedyits not quite as good as the chinese restaurant in Aberdeen... but good enough
16:58.42brlcadclaymore: takes me over an hour to get there so it won't do me much good
16:58.52brlcadPrezKennedy: mm, that sounds good
16:59.10PrezKennedyits inexpensive too!
16:59.25brlcadhits the road
16:59.55claymoreDrive safe!
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19:20.47starseekerbrlcad:  Looks like the .c.o rule change is breaking the build on Mac
19:29.14``Erik_I hate getting accused of being a guru :(
19:33.14claymorewell start acting stupid instead of knowledgable...
19:46.24``Erik_#!~@! I've been trying!
19:48.02claymoreI can help if you want.... stooopid.
19:48.08claymore:D
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20:00.37punkrockgirlerik acts knowledgable?
20:01.08mafmbye
20:01.35*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-94-72.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:02.05claymoreevery now and then.
20:02.17claymoreWell, at least he puts on a good show.  Quite believable.
20:02.27claymoreI would imagine you know him better though ;)
20:03.50punkrockgirl;)
20:08.32``Erik_says who?
20:08.33``Erik_O.o
20:08.40``Erik_*duck* *run* :D
20:08.46claymoreAn Owl says who.
20:08.52claymorenot a *duck*
20:08.57starseekershe probably read all your secret journals ;-)
20:08.58claymoreshakes head.
20:08.58``Erik_ORLY???
20:09.38starseekerpunkrockgirl:  Is he really a closet linux kernel hacker? :-P
20:10.24claymoreYA RLY!!
20:12.44starseekerHmm.  head fails on BSD for me, but with an ld: cannot find -lX11 error
20:13.17``Erik_yes, the tkhtml3 build is ignoring the CPPFLAGS and LDFLAGS that add /usr/local/{include,lib}
20:13.49``Erik_http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/200811/errord/404.jpg  what's more amusing, the sign, or the irssi/bx session on the screen?
20:15.25starseeker``Erik: Hmm.  CPPFLAGS and LDFLAGS are in the Makefile.in - I take it that means those variables aren't being used correctly within the build logic?
20:15.35claymorewhats more sad:  The fact someone had time to do this at work, or the fact someone could Identify applications running on the computer in the picture?
20:17.08punkrockgirli tend to ignore most of what erik says... mostly because i dont understand it :/
20:17.35punkrockgirlso i figured he just spoke jibberish
20:17.46``Erik_I don' speek no jibba jabba, foo!
20:17.51punkrockgirlsee?
20:18.58louipcpunkrockgirl: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eisa5AZ20W0
20:19.11``Erik_huh, the fbsd box seems to be not responding :/
20:19.51punkrockgirlerik = mr t
20:20.03``Erik_you didn't know? O.o
20:20.26``Erik_I mean, you have to trick me with drugged milk to get me to fly...
20:20.55punkrockgirli never noticed the resemblance before
20:26.26CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33130 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/docs/BME.eap: Continuing architecture planning.
20:29.59claymorebrlcad:  Hrm, well, guess I will catch up with you ... some other time eh?  heh.  Lata.
21:18.09clock_everyone in the voting ques?
21:19.17CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33131 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (12 files): Add latest batch of MGED man pages worked on by Janine and Cliff
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081105

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081105

00:00.24``Erik_like, near all the bird guys
00:00.27``Erik_woops
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00:28.24CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33132 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkhtml3/Makefile.in: go the stupid route. needs some automake lovin'.
01:51.40brlcadthat leaves the only error being failures in doc/ when there aren't tools installed
01:57.22starseekerhmm - I thought we disabled the docbook stuff when there weren't tools?
01:58.42brlcadyeah, there's a handfulof .am's that don't
01:59.07brlcadI put a hack, should be good enough to retag 7.14.0 now
02:00.16starseekercool
02:00.19starseekerrebuilds
02:07.24brlcadkicks CIA-24
02:07.24CIA-24ow
02:08.09brlcadso it's now all tagged up, doing another round of distchecks
02:09.45brlcadthe only thing that comes to mind is that STABLE might not be perfectly synchronized since it required massive manual intervention
02:10.01brlcadbut if it'll check out and build on at least two plats, I'll post up the tarball
02:11.32starseekernods
02:11.41starseekeryou opted not to go the svn cp route?
02:13.35brlcadnope, it was merged
02:14.24brlcadI was actually using the wrong syntax at first and probably wasted a couple hours before I realized it fixing problems
02:15.05brlcadmy hope is that keeping a "fixed" merge in place with the proper revision tag annotated on the branch, that future merges should just work
02:15.20brlcadso long as nobody actually works on STABLE directly and causes a new conflict
02:15.33starseekernods
02:16.34starseekertakes first stab at mk_hyp
02:17.59brlcadhm, looks like doc still (more quietly) halts the build if xsltproc doesn't exist
02:18.13brlcadnot a release stopper, but should get fixed
02:18.19starseekerhmm
02:19.25louipchmm
02:20.05brlcad".fo.pdf: .xml.fo" looks like badness
02:20.51starseekerIs it not being disabled?
02:21.00starseekeror just bad make file syntax?
02:22.08brlcadwell yeah, the bigger problem is it's not being disabled
02:22.33brlcadbut making an implicit rule dependent on another implicit rule is odd too
02:23.17brlcadprobably a neater way to do that with vars or even just a different approach
02:25.17starseekerum.  thought it was a logical mapping to the actual xml -> fo -> pdf process, but maybe not
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02:39.38CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33133 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkhtml3/Makefile.in: add dependencies so that parallel compilation will fly. auto-search /usr/lib and /usr/local/lib to work around stupidity in the TEA X11 checks.
02:39.39CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33134 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: make xsltproc and apachefop be a no-op if they don't exist so that the build doesn't fail if they're invoked without checking whether they exist.
02:40.00brlcadmust be overloaded
02:40.08CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33135 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/ (configure.ac src/other/tkhtml3/Makefile.in): merge 33129:HEAD (33134) from trunk to stable. these are a few build repairs that need to make it into the 7.14.0 release.
02:40.11CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33136 10/brlcad/tags/rel-7-14-0/ (configure.ac src/other/tkhtml3/Makefile.in):
02:40.11CIA-24BRL-CAD: fugly post-tag merge to fix critical build system failures (across the board)
02:40.11CIA-24BRL-CAD: due to bad juju in the tkhtml3 dependency build. this should
02:40.11CIA-24BRL-CAD: (sufficiently/hopefully) make things 'good enough' for release though leaving
02:40.12CIA-24BRL-CAD: much to be desired.
03:07.57starseekergrowls at the hyp input parameters
03:08.02starseekerlater for them
03:41.48CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33137 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkhtml3/Makefile.in: so, cssprop is kinda important if we need to resolve all symbols in the library (e.g. on mac)
03:43.20CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33138 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/src/other/tkhtml3/Makefile.in: merge from head through 33137
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04:41.12CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33139 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/ (doc/book/VolumeII.xml m4/ax_boost_base.m4): more (manual) syncing with trunk, add missing ax_boost_base.m4 and remove the moved VolumeII.xml
04:48.52CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33140 10/brlcad/trunk/ (206 files in 206 dirs):
04:48.52CIA-24BRL-CAD: alrighty, it's been years of fighting merges with rcs variables getting in the
04:48.52CIA-24BRL-CAD: way and in all that time I can't think of a time where I found that line
04:48.52CIA-24BRL-CAD: actually incredibly useful. time to give it the axe, at least in the makefile
04:48.54CIA-24BRL-CAD: templates.
04:50.33CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33141 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): removal of a few more rcs var instances
05:11.30CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33142 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/ (211 files in 206 dirs): hopefully the last merge of all changes on trunk to the branch for the 7.14.0 release. this syncs changes from 33137 to HEAD revision 33141
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06:58.44yukonbobhi clock_
07:14.55clock_yukonbob: hi
07:15.08clock_congratulations to America!
07:50.07brlcadbah, still failing in doc, different issue
07:59.14CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33143 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: can't set xsltproc and apachefop to : until after we test the configuration functionality.
07:59.34CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33144 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/configure.ac: merge 33143 from trunk, can't set xsltproc and apachefop to : until after we test the configuration functionality.
08:03.58CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33145 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkhtml3/Makefile.in: cssprop.c is generated in the build directory, not the source directory. thx mac build.
08:05.19CIA-24BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33146 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/src/other/tkhtml3/Makefile.in: merge 33145 from trunk to get the cssprop.c fix for tkhtml3
08:06.06brlcadhm, drumroll...
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08:16.49brlcadso far looking good
08:16.53brlcadhits the road again
08:20.26clock_once hit the road so hard he had to go to hospital
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12:26.16``Erik_looks like obama swept it big time, 270 is the magic number and he's already at 338, the non-reporting states are irrelevent now
12:27.03``Erik_man, 338 to 163... that is harsh
12:50.06``Erik_CLAYMORE! (or starseeker or brlcad)
13:15.55Axman6``Erik_: it was a very nice win indeed :)
13:18.00``Erik_not unexpected
13:18.24``Erik_but I need brlcad, claymore or starseeker to respond, I called in sick, but I need shit done :(
13:19.08Axman6:(
13:19.11Axman6gets shit done
13:19.20Axman6you better get me a birthday present though
13:19.27``Erik_ok
13:19.31``Erik_poos in a paper sack
13:19.32``Erik_:D
13:19.48Axman6that does not constitute a present
13:19.59``Erik_does... not... compute...
13:20.48Axman6luckily my birthday ended 20 mins ago here, so you didn't ruin it
13:21.07``Erik_a google pm is in the neighborhood, I'm going to try to facilitate a visit, but gubmint is as gubmint does, so it could be difficult, I'm hoping to have one of my cohorts alert mgmt of my intent
13:21.11``Erik_happy bday, axman
13:21.38Axman6thanks
13:22.36*** topic/#brlcad by ``Erik_ -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSOC 2008 is complete! w00t to all || Happy BDay to Axman6
13:23.35Axman6heh, thanks :)
13:23.53Axman6i need to play with brl-cad more once exams are over
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13:39.16claymoreYo Erik.  Whats up?
13:40.03starseeker``Erik:  now what? ;-)
13:40.54*** join/#brlcad ``Erik_ (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
13:41.50claymoreis at home finding / replacing a battery & alternator for a 03 dodge caravan :/
13:42.26starseekeris getting ready to go in after watching too much election coverage
13:49.09*** join/#brlcad elmom (n=elmom@hoasnet-ff04dd00-187.dhcp.inet.fi)
13:50.08clock_Obama has about 3dB over McCain :)
13:51.50louipcMcCain apparently got 47% of the popular vote
13:53.59claymoreBleh, didn't even bother watching the election coverage.  The outcome didn't change whether I watched it or not :)
13:59.17clock_If I should sleep with one of the candidates, I would select Obama.
14:00.28louipcPalin all the way
14:01.40clock_Now Honolulu becomes the capital of the US instead of Washington D.C.?
14:04.47claymoreThat wouldn't be soooo bad.  Except we have touble getting those on capitol hill to do anything as it is, let along move them all to Hawaii and telling them to work....
14:05.00claymorealong = alone
14:05.45clock_no it would be Medvedev would come for a visit
14:05.50clock_the Capitol would be all empty
14:05.56clock_so he would ask the janitor what's up
14:06.05clock_and he would reply "The surf's up"
14:17.34``Erik_Wsend 'em all to alaska
14:18.00``Erik_claymore! are you functional? or do I need to phone bc while out on sick?
14:23.49*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
14:24.16mafmhai
14:28.28claymoreerik:  Functional, but at home.   Mini van is sick, need new battery/alternator.
14:28.36``Erik_oh
14:28.38``Erik_poop
14:28.49``Erik_i need a mouthpiece for bc
14:28.52claymoreNothing like working on electric systems in the rain... though I left that in my past lol.
14:28.53``Erik_I'm out sick with a head cold
14:28.58claymorejust call Ed.
14:29.12``Erik_yeh, he's probably in now
14:29.14``Erik_*sigh*
14:29.20``Erik_6300 ?
14:29.30claymoreI phone him about an hour ago, so yeah, he's in.  and yes, x6300
14:29.52claymoreso that atlantica game.... 2gb download... *sigh*
14:30.29claymoregotta hand it to them asians... they know how to draw pretty gurls, lol.
14:38.55``Erik_okie, talked to ed
14:39.01``Erik_he's gonna get the shit rolling
14:39.23claymoregood man that Ed
14:39.39``Erik_uh, claymore, you do understand that if this goes down, your participation in a lunch is not voluntary, right?
14:39.50claymoreif what goes down?
14:40.12``Erik_the google summer of code project manager is going to be in the neighborhood in a week or two
14:40.24``Erik_I'm trying to facilitate a meet&greet
14:40.27claymoreOh hell yeah.
14:40.43claymoreI'll bring my campbells chunk soup to the resteraunt.
14:40.50``Erik_hhahaha
14:40.53claymore<PROTECTED>
14:41.32claymoreSO i just did a dumb shit thing.... tried to check out root of the brlcad svn instead of trunk...lol
14:41.43claymorewas wondering why it was taking so long.... lol
14:43.06claymoreso whats the GSOC PM's name?
14:43.14``Erik_leslie hawthorn
14:43.41claymoreNice.  Philly or Baltimore>?
14:44.37``Erik_he's a cali, she's hitting boston then dc... so I told her that I'd be willing to pull geeks together for her dc portion if she gets bored, she expressed interest in seeing brlcad's 5 monitor setup
14:45.33louipcwow! I'd like to see that in action
14:45.35claymoreSweet, thinking about arranging an onsite?
14:46.05``Erik_I'm trying to get ed to start the process of getting leslie and her aussie friend some visitor passes
14:46.12claymoreOnce that Mac comes back from glen, I am seriously thinking about attempting to utilize all 6 monitor jacks :)
14:46.27``Erik_well, there's an issue
14:46.40claymoreHe broke it didn't he?
14:46.51``Erik_if you want a 30" monitor, that uses one physical socket, but consumes both that cards output
14:47.08claymorewhat about a 24?
14:47.15``Erik_he'll try, *shrug* hopefully I'll feel up to snuff tomorrow and accost bc in the right way
14:47.26``Erik_24 is a single dvi, 30 is a dual dvi
14:47.58claymoreare you sure?  I am driving a 30 and a 24 off a single nVidia Quatro right now on my RHEL box...
14:48.02``Erik_brlcad is totally subsuming his 3 dual-dvi cards, he cannot add another monitor
14:48.17``Erik_erm, max rez on a 30 is dual dvi
14:48.38claymoreah, I probably have the rez gimped then.
14:48.45``Erik_perhaps
14:49.16claymoreIs it a VidCard limitation?  Because the 30's power supply only has a single DVI cord.
14:49.52``Erik_I d'no
14:49.58claymoreis confused now.
14:50.14claymoreI'll play with BRLCADs monitors when he isn't looking.
14:50.55claymorechecks out TRUNK not ROOT this time.... grumble.
14:51.00``Erik_I went and got old, I grok the differences, but I don't careanymore... I'll pay a premium for a little bit of ram...thus my new mcabook (why isn't it here yet)
14:52.58claymoreBecause Murphey and his laws work at UPS and FedEx ;)
14:54.07``Erik_I wanna go race :(
14:55.11``Erik_I'm not in the ae mentality, but I'm in the os one...
14:55.25claymoreLearn something new every day.  In windows' Volume Control window, cntl-s toggles small/large mode.... huh..
14:55.42clock_claymore: lol
14:55.46claymoreos = opensource?
14:55.59``Erik_ja
14:56.04clock_claymore: if you learn enough tricks like this you get the Microsoft Academy Awards Certificate?
14:56.13clock_or CCNA?
14:56.25claymorethen I will wipe my butt with it and flush it ;)
14:56.53``Erik_I WHUPPEd THE GUY AT AHE TNED OF THE INTARNET, I ARE TEH WINN4R!!#!~#
14:56.55claymoreerik:  so start an OS version of AE just way way way better
14:57.29``Erik_vsc url?
14:57.39claymore's eyes bled a bit reading that....
14:57.58claymorevsc = ?
14:58.18``Erik_vcs
14:58.35claymorevcs = ?
14:58.47``Erik_version control system... cvs, svn, darcs, mercurial, git, ...
14:59.35claymoreOkay still don't knwo what ur askin then.
14:59.55claymorewonders why it takes so long to get a 'common part' from the werehouse.
15:00.21``Erik_where is it?
15:00.32``Erik_taht applies to both queries
15:01.14louipc~vcs
15:01.33claymorewerehouse is across the parking lot from the 'dealer' that I called.  grrrrr.
15:01.54claymoreis tempted to strip the alternator down and refurbish it himself...
15:02.11``Erik_my hoa is getting grumpy that my truck hasnt' moved... :( I need to move
15:02.58clock_hoa that's wife?
15:03.04louipc~vcs
15:03.04ibotextra, extra, read all about it, vcs is "Version Control System" such as CVS, subversion, git, etc.
15:03.10``Erik_homo's association
15:03.14claymorelol
15:03.28clock_what's a homo's association?
15:03.35claymore~hoa
15:03.49clock_is it like a gay partner?
15:03.51claymoreis crying in laughter.
15:03.57``Erik_it's a contract fagtards sign into
15:04.01``Erik_<-- is a fagtard.
15:04.02PrezKennedytheyre jerks who tell you how to paint your house and how to mow the lawn
15:04.03``Erik_:(
15:04.10clock_``Erik_: youre a gay?
15:04.20claymoreis crying in laughter even more.
15:04.51``Erik_um, I poke my gf's rump, be she isnt, yknow, packing
15:04.53claymorebangs his fists on the table. hahahahahahahahahaha
15:06.42claymorewonders why both cores on his lappy are pegged at 100%....
15:07.03clock_claymore: that's a god sent punishment for laughing at people because they are gay!
15:07.40PrezKennedymy 4 cores arent pegged... and i was laughing too
15:08.02clock_PrezKennedy: you will be punished by discovering youre gay after you are married with 2 children!
15:08.10claymorenot laughing at people because they gay.  Just the direction of the conversation.
15:08.25PrezKennedyhaha.. clock_ i don't think so
15:08.41clock_``Erik_: or maybe God wanted to punish ``Erik_ for saying "fagtard" but missed and hit your computer instead
15:09.19clock_I mean claymore'S COMPUTER
15:09.29clock_OMG CAPSLOCK !!!1111
15:10.42claymorewhats wrong with calling oneself a retarded bundle of sticks?
15:11.01``Erik_hey, I have no bias towards orientation...
15:11.08clock_sounded like a defamatory word for gays
15:11.22``Erik_shit, i'm trying to get my wench to fing a new chica to bring to bed ;
15:11.29clock_``Erik_: so youre izotropic?
15:11.32``Erik_*duck* *run*
15:11.56``Erik_I don't know that word
15:12.10clock_means no bias towards anhy orientation
15:12.12``Erik_google isn't helping me
15:12.20clock_maybe should be isotropic?
15:12.58``Erik_no, I hold no bias. I like sleeping with women, I frankly don't care who other people like sleeping with
15:13.15clock_plushy teddy bears
15:13.25clock_that's a mixture between fetish and zoophilia
15:13.29``Erik_if that's what gets your rocks off, go for it
15:13.30PrezKennedywomen FTW!
15:13.42claymoreagrees. TnA rules
15:13.49``Erik_I'll continue humping punker and be quite happy about it
15:14.05claymoreso you the punk humper eh?
15:14.12``Erik_smething like that, yes
15:15.50claymorePics or it didn't happen.
15:15.57claymoreO.o
15:16.07louipchahahaha
15:17.18``Erik_heh
15:18.07``Erik_pix exist, not for distribution O:-)
15:19.23clock_FOR IMMEDIATE CIRCULATION
15:20.03claymoreso punk reads backlogs too eh?  LOL.
15:20.14claymoreWell, gotta get my lunch on.  Peace out g's.
15:52.28*** join/#brlcad CIA-24 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
16:28.26claymorehrm, looks like I am the life of the party eh?  ;)
16:28.40*** join/#brlcad CIA-24 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
16:34.48claymoreparties.
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16:55.17starseeker``Erik_:  you figuring to pull in all the BRL-CAD devs for this lunch then?
16:57.43starseekermakes the mistake of reading the back logs and considers starting a betting pool on how long ``Erik_ has to live
17:01.11claymoreI dunno, Erik picked Punk over being gay... so thats a compliment!
17:14.26louipcehhh
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18:41.57starseekerfeels the need for good primitives documentation as he squints at the hyp code
19:01.48*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@206-248-129-225.dsl.teksavvy.com)
19:34.49mafmnight
19:35.00brlcad``Erik_: not on the cards we got -- they're dual duals, so you could actually hook up 6
19:55.08claymorebrlcad:  with splitters... that makes 12 possible?
19:55.22brlcadnot at full rez
19:55.32brlcadthe 30"'s will saturdate the dual link
19:55.49claymoresettle for 12 24" then ;)
19:55.50*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
19:55.56brlcadhowdy Ralith
19:56.12Ralithhullo
19:56.16brlcadhow goes it?
20:53.41*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5B14EDA2.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:10.54claymoreErik:  hows the head cold?
21:26.59brlcadwoot, looks like 7.14.0 is good (enough) to go
21:27.11starseekeryay!!
21:31.37brlcadrebreaks head
21:35.01starseekerIs stable stable now?
21:35.23brlcadbuilds across at least three platforms seemed to succeed
21:35.30starseekercool
21:35.39brlcadaltix, linux, and mac -- good enough for a source
21:36.32brlcadbsd seemed to work too
21:36.55brlcadthe tkhtml3 build is still rather flimsy, I'm sure that's still probably not right
21:37.08starseekernods
21:37.40starseekercrosses fingers for S2
21:40.12starseekerI take it CIA is MIA?
21:53.29CIA-26BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33147 10/brlcad/trunk/ (20 files in 9 dirs): unrevert r33113 to restore the g_qa merge into mged and port to windows changes so that bob can apply his fix to the crashies and antiparallelism problems.
21:53.48CIA-26BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33148 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/make.c libwdb/wdb.c): Add support for make obj hyp to libged, using new mk_hyp from libwdb
22:25.19CIA-26BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33149 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/gqa.c: I'm going to take a quick stab in the dark and guess that the problem is that he didn't initialize the semaphores.
23:05.51*** join/#brlcad geocalc (n=geocalc@91-171-205-31.rev.libertysurf.net)
23:50.02brlcadwoot, new news item
23:50.53``Erik_I think lh is annoyed at boston and cruising down to dc, ya gonna be up for chumming at lunch?
23:51.35brlcadwhen?
23:51.58``Erik_um, I think now?
23:52.09brlcadit's not lunchtime now :)
23:52.10``Erik_she's estimating a 7hr drive
23:52.28brlcadso you mean tomorrow or friday?
23:52.29``Erik_I'm going to try to arrange a visitor pass if possible
23:52.39``Erik_tomorrie
23:53.08louipcwow it sure didn't seem like there were 280 mailing list messages
23:53.11brlcadthinks we should go to Tidewater
23:53.35``Erik_I d'no, she said she was coming to the area, and then she said she was effin' fed up with boston and coming down *NOW*, so *shruG*
23:53.38``Erik_tidewater?
23:53.40brlcadshe doesn't eat a lot of things, our usual faire won't be too appetizing
23:53.41``Erik_what's that?
23:53.50brlcadit's down in HdG
23:53.59brlcadnext to the other place
23:54.08brlcadon the water
23:54.08``Erik_hdg?
23:54.44``Erik_havre de grace?
23:54.58``Erik_I need to buy gas, I'm almost out :/
23:55.06brlcad~hdg
23:55.07ibotit has been said that hdg is Havre de Grace, Maryland -- one of the original candidate sites to be the U.S. capital
23:57.02``Erik_well, I'm under the impression that she threw her buddy in the car and got on the road, so "real soon now", I'd like to take them to the museum and to our building while they're in town
23:57.47``Erik_and they'll be in the area for few days... I d'no anyhting about any dietary constraints
23:58.10``Erik_my mom is pissed at me because I couldn't advise for good crab shacks *shrug* I eat cow
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081106

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081106

00:00.57brlcadgasps, there are several outstanding crab shacks that are "must see" if you like crabs
00:01.26brlcadthe msrc and maybe area C would also be interesting to show
00:03.01*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
00:03.28``Erik_"luftwaffles" hah
00:41.52*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
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04:13.58*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
04:45.08*** join/#brlcad alex_joni (n=juve@emc/board-of-directors/alexjoni) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
05:37.00*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
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08:21.04brlcadpunts the tarball until tomorrow
08:26.19CIA-26BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33151 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: added gqa.c to be in sync with Makefile.am
08:36.03*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
09:43.33*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@193.136.2.121)
09:43.46mafmhi
10:27.46*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
11:40.27claymoreso whats the word on the VIP visit?
12:02.39Axman6VIP visit?
12:12.47claymoreAppearently the GSOC PM will be in our neck of the woods sometime soon.  I am guessin perhaps today?
12:13.57CIA-26BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33152 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (gtools/g_qa.c libged/gqa.c): Mods to get g_qa working again.
12:22.03Axman6``Erik_ was saying yesterday i think...
12:22.07Axman6i could be wrong
13:38.37claymoreErik, Paulette just came in.  Are you sleeping or playing host?
13:38.57claymoreI have your cell number and will give ya a call at about 0900 (ish)
14:07.11claymorePaulette & Steph stand informed.  Word is, turnaround by Friday Afternoon is near impossible :(
15:00.55*** join/#brlcad elmom (n=elmom@hoasnet-ff04dd00-187.dhcp.inet.fi)
15:15.09*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
16:04.05*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
16:06.59mafmhi
16:08.10*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
16:10.45claymorewaves at mafm.
16:11.19mafmwaves back :)
16:23.33brlcadmafm: heh, pure evil
16:23.56brlcadif this is your first interaction with them, my condolences
16:25.39claymorewith who?
16:38.05claymoreWoot 3050 econ
16:38.09claymoredances
16:38.43mafmyes brlcad
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17:07.18mafmoh sorry claymore
17:07.27mafmI was tempted by the Evil Empire
17:08.32*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5B14D8C5.dip.t-dialin.net)
17:13.44claymoreEvil Empire being..... Microsoft?
17:15.32mafmclaymore: winner!
17:16.02claymoreyou didn't go vista, didja?
17:16.17mafmnope, they sent me a recruitment message
17:16.28claymoreOh well hell, go for it.
17:16.58claymoreMy Brother in law works for them on the Silverlight project.... its an amazing company to work for, regardless of the public opinion of their products :)
17:19.36mafmwell, it depends where I would be going to be relocated :D
17:19.45mafmbut I'm not very thrilled
17:19.56claymoreThere is only one place:  Washington State ;)
17:19.59claymorewhy not?
17:20.06mafmI don't want to move there
17:20.22claymorewhy not?
17:20.22mafmand I don't like working on things that I don't like, in general
17:20.27mafmpersonal reasons :P
17:20.38mafmincluding familiar and so on :)
17:21.14claymoreWell, 'No good deal goes unpunished' so take the good with the bad and fine that place that fits you just right.
17:21.42claymoreWell if I got extended a deal to move back to the west coast, I would be there in an instant.  No second thoughts.
17:24.28mafmxD
17:24.42mafmThe west coast of US is about 9k km away from home
17:27.50claymoreTrue, but West coast is way better than East coast in my opinion.  I am about 4.5k km away from where I grew up and where my family is... :/  its all about choices :)
17:29.37mafmI've never been in the US but I probably won't like it very much
17:29.40mafm:D
17:31.03mafmcoffee time!
17:31.44claymoreWhere do you call home?
17:32.39claymoredamn Erik/brlcad!  make up your minds, I am getting hungry waiting to see if the Luncheon is on or not.....
17:32.44claymore;)
17:34.27mafmsomewhere between Lisbon and the north of the Iberian peninsula (Spain+Portugal)
17:35.56claymoreCool.  And as for not liking the US, well don't knock it till ya try it.  Come on over, you can stay at my place ;)  The wife and I will clean out the spare bedroom!
17:37.33mafmwell, it's not that simple, I have my life here
17:37.38mafm;)
17:37.43mafmthanks for the offer anyway
17:37.56mafmI hope to go at some point of visiting and so on
17:38.32claymoreMight I ask what you do for a living now?
17:38.35mafmnow coffee time, be back in a while
17:38.53mafmworking at a particle physics lab: www.lip.pt
17:38.57claymorekk lata.
17:39.06mafmthe web is ugly, yep
17:39.15mafmgo there for the coffee, bbiab
17:45.46starseekerclaymore:  Any word from either of them?
17:46.27claymorenegative.
17:46.47starseekerhrm
17:47.00claymorePrbably laughing over plates of Alfredo right now lol.
17:47.45claymoreAll I can say is:  The Batman Begins OST is f-ing awesome!
17:48.48starseekerOST?
17:49.02claymoreOriginal Soundtrack ;)
17:49.23starseekerwasn't clear if they wanted the GSOC folk to see more than just brlcad and `Erik or not...
17:49.28starseekerah
17:49.44starseekerscowls at automake
17:50.33claymoreah hell, I forgot to renew one of my domains... its in reconsiliation now *grumbles*
17:53.22claymoreBoooo.  Bad joke:  Penguin computing solutions just came out with a new gen of Blade servers... code named Bladerunners......
17:53.29claymorehisses and jeers
17:54.08starseekerare they at least good machines?
17:54.24louipcwere they trying to be funny or trying to be cool?
17:55.38claymorelouipc: I dunno.
17:56.19claymorestarseeker:  Oh, they are great machines.  I think the Bladerunner can get 960 cores into 25U space  ( I think i read that right)
17:56.37louipc25U...
17:56.39starseekercoool :-)
17:56.49starseekercan forgive the bad joke
17:56.57claymorestarseeker:  some of the newer server we have here are 2U penguin machines...
17:57.44claymorelol 3.84TB of ram...lol
17:58.07louipcthat is some amazing power
17:59.01claymoreas thinking he could be #1 on the Seti@Home rankings in no time with that machine.....
18:01.38claymorejust think about the electrical power requirements of a computeNet like that at 100%.... lol
18:02.01claymore"Hell, we lost power.  Fire up all the backup generators, we need to reboot"
18:02.46claymoreHow to make a power plant cry....
18:04.19mafmback
18:05.03starseekerheh - what nuclear power plants were invented for
18:06.17claymoreI need a nuke plant for my current server.  4 HD's and 7 80mm fans.  Loud and power hungry!
18:26.50mafmgoing home, take care :)
18:26.59claymorelater!
19:12.31starseekerregrets not having an office to himself so he can yell at autotools properly
19:13.08starseekerok, when all else fails, back to square one - the docs
19:24.39*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
20:31.24brlcadstarseeker: sup with autotools?
20:55.33brlcadstarseeker: I highly suspect I fixed that problem shortly after the nightly tests ran
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21:53.27punkrockgirlhi
21:57.53louipchi
21:59.10brlcad'lo
21:59.43starseekerbrlcad:  Trying to get a read on how to make automake and TEA play together - I think the time has finally come for me to come to grips with autotools
22:01.26brlcadTEA sets a bunch of flags, those flags/variables are documented in the .m4 file -- you just have to make sure those flags get set to the appropriate FLAGS variables in the .am file
22:01.43starseekernods
22:02.34starseekerI'm sure it's not difficult, but the fact I can't easily set it up underscores my need to do my homework
22:02.56brlcade.g. TEA_CONFIG_CFLAGS -- sets a whole bunch of flags, one being LDFLAGS
22:03.35starseekerWould a proper Makefile.am remove the need for tcl.m4 altogether?
22:04.24brlcadin configure, you'd want to capture the current LDFLAGS settings, run TEA_CONFIG_CFLAGS, store LDFLAGS into another variable (like TKHTML_LDFLAGS="$LDFLAGS"), restore the original LDFLAGS, then use TKHTML_LDFLAGS in your .am file(s) as needed
22:04.33brlcadno it wouldn't
22:04.48punkrockgirlhas anyone talked to erik?
22:04.55brlcad.am files are just templates, they have no real inherint knowledge
22:04.59brlcadpunkrockgirl: probably
22:05.15starseekerpunkrockgirl:  not me
22:05.33brlcadsomebody at some point somewhere has probably talked to him ;)
22:05.48punkrockgirli havent heard from him, so i'm making sure he is ok, i know he didnt feel good
22:07.51brlcadhe last chimed in here at 7pm est yesterday
22:08.15brlcader, 8pm actually
22:08.46punkrockgirlyeah, i talked to him right before southpark and i called him after and he didnt answer :(
22:08.59punkrockgirli guess he is busy at work?
22:09.34starseekeris he here?
22:09.35starseekerlooks
22:10.46punkrockgirlis he not? :(
22:10.47starseekernope, door locked
22:10.47punkrockgirlhmm
22:10.47punkrockgirlok now i'm worried then
22:10.47punkrockgirlhe called in sick yesterday
22:10.47punkrockgirlhe wouldnt call in twice in a row, he'd need a dr note right?
22:10.54brlcadnot really
22:11.06brlcadi'll go ask, hold on
22:11.46punkrockgirlim all worried :(
22:14.42*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
22:16.46brlcaddon't be worried
22:16.49brlcadhas details
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23:00.59*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
23:02.25brlcadhowdy Ralith
23:02.33brlcadhappy coding trails
23:03.44Ralithhey
23:03.46Ralithtrails?
23:06.39brlcadsings "happy trails are here again"
23:07.04brlcaddah dah daaah dah daah di do daaaah dadaaaa
23:07.09Ralithhas never heard taht :<
23:07.10Raliththat*
23:07.24brlcadyou probably have and just haven't realized it
23:07.28Ralithprobably
23:07.32brlcadit's a jingle on a lot of commercials, old song
23:13.29Ralitho
23:13.54Ralithit will not be long before I have a repstrap to play with :]
23:14.28brlcadooh, that's a cool project
23:14.47Ralithvery.
23:15.29RalithI'm looking forward to when brl-cad can be made to generate slice vectors for use with it
23:17.12brlcadtoo
23:18.05starseekercan see the tag line - BRL-CAD, it slices and dices!
23:18.09Ralithhehe
23:18.29starseekergah, how'd it get to be 6:30 already??
23:18.35starseekermust head home now...
23:19.37starseekerbrlcad:  Looks like another stock market slump
23:19.43brlcadoh yeah!
23:19.49brlcadcrap.. I was gonna buy after talking to bob
23:22.33brlcadthere he be
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081107

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081107

00:07.29*** join/#brlcad CIA-24 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
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04:39.05yukonbobhello, cadheads
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07:27.50brlcadreads through his stack of financial and legal papers
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11:37.32claymoreMornin!
12:19.57claymoreReading financial papers at 0200?  Not a good idea ;)
12:26.42claymorestarseeker:  I was wrong about that blade runner thing:  its 160 cores in a 7U space, or 960 cores per rack (42U)
12:26.47claymorestill  :)
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13:14.20mafmhi
13:17.23claymoreHai!
13:23.50Axman6o/
13:27.04clock_will have a 100 MHz Russian oscilloscope!
13:27.09clock_For an amazing price!
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15:12.25claymoreErik: whats the word on the luncheon?
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16:09.23brlcadclaymore: perhaps, especially since it took 3 more hours to get through them all
16:09.32brlcadbut it's done
16:09.59brlcaddecides to take even more leave
16:10.21brlcadI think I might actually burn through it all for once with all the time I've been taking off
16:18.50claymorenice :)
16:19.16claymorePointless to stockpile it this early in your career!
16:19.30claymoreis hungry. What are the lunch plans for everyone?
16:19.32brlcadoh, I don't build it up
16:19.40brlcadmine cashes out every year
16:19.55claymoreNiceness then.
16:20.02brlcadit's a tradeoff
16:20.07claymoreNo wonder you can afford a house :)
16:21.40claymoreWhats the word on the 'luncheon' today?
16:21.58brlcadI have even less idea of what's going on for that than you do I think
16:22.11brlcadhaven't heard anything from erik
16:22.27claymoreAll i know is my tummy is empty, and it might riot if I wait too much longer :)
16:22.28brlcadI'm way too far away to participate regardless
16:26.42claymoreGot a tenative closing date on the house yet?
16:27.06brlcadoh, that was set a couple weeks ago, it's in two weeks
16:27.21claymoreoutstanding!
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16:34.08*** join/#brlcad mafm_ (n=mafm@193.137.99.111)
16:35.23brlcadwaves to mafm_
16:38.10mafm_hi again
16:55.40mafm_going to the alien greenhouse again, see you :)
16:56.01mafm_or greenhouse for dissecting aliens, whatever :P
16:56.07mafm_(our new datacenter)
17:08.54*** join/#brlcad ``Erik_ (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
17:18.22claymoreErik:  You actually on?
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19:15.58claymoreyawns.
19:29.01starseekerseconds the yawn
19:36.19claymorefeels ancy and unfocused. Hard to concentraite....
19:38.39starseekeramen
19:39.15claymoreshould have brought in his PS-2. I need to satisfy my FF itch :)
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20:23.46brlcadjust now finds out that tuesday is a holiday
21:17.44starseekerbrlcad:  Heh - well, you could work a normal day and have a 16 hour day, I suppose ;-)
21:22.33starseekeror, considering a normal brlcad work day, I suppose it would be 20+...
21:53.44starseekertakes the hint on how quiet the channel has become and proceeds to act like he has a life :-P
22:08.59brlcadheh
22:09.38brlcadthe OSS activity has been at a curious low lately -- must publicize, activate, and inspire more!
22:22.31brlcadheads off to look for a digital measure
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081108

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081108

00:00.01*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
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14:23.51iraytraceAnyone using BRL-CAD on Leopard?
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17:00.13*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.0 is now posted (20081108)
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21:12.54yukonbobw00t
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081109

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081109

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22:29.22louipcthat new release tarball really ballooned in size!
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081110

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081110

01:41.41brlcadyeah, just a little bit
01:42.34brlcadabout 20% larger than the previous biggest
01:43.03brlcadthat'd be most new docs, boost, and libged
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03:56.01yukonbobhello, cadheads
04:48.06CIA-25BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33155 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/wdb_track.c: aexists does not exist
05:05.28CIA-25BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33156 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (Makefile.am lens.c): Needs more work and equation correctness checking, but upload a preliminary proc-db to create optical lenses. Currently does Plano-convex, Plano-concave, biconvex and biconcave.
05:06.57starseekerlouipc:  It's not likely to get much smaller - expecially if you want to bundle ogre and friends into it :-)
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10:11.31clock_What was the maximum allowed speed on American highways in 1973?
10:24.48Mouette7.14.0 compile succed , but it is not still included "adrt"
10:25.28Mouettecompile "adrt" still failed
11:08.07Mouettethe package 7.14.0 for solaris x86 is uploaded.
11:08.34Mouettewaiting  for your validate and check
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13:22.24mafmhi
13:22.35claymorehai!
14:28.15mafmhuh
14:28.31mafmwho dared to put that about the gui project in the topic? :D
14:30.10claymoreThey much be a witch... BURN THEM!
14:31.01mafmxD
14:31.10mafmI'd like to be scientific about that, nevertheless
14:31.26mafmlet's first check whether they weight the same as a duck
14:32.12claymorewith some of todays 'good looking women', the duck just might end up being heavier.
14:34.10mafmlol
14:34.37mafmwell, burning those too is a win :)
14:35.29claymoreJust watched the new remake of Get Smart this weekend.  Oddly enough, pretty damn funny.  Also, I need to shake Anne Hathaway's mother... grew her daughter right!
14:35.56claymorelol, I ment.  I need to shake Anne Hathaway's Mother's hand...
14:37.21mafmhummmm
14:37.28mafmno comments :D
14:38.30claymoreNone needed.  Its Anne Hathaway :)
14:44.52mafmhttp://www.topnews.in/light/files/anne-hathaway.jpg
14:45.20mafmso well, shaking her mother should be funny...
14:50.50claymore...nah, not really into that MILF thing.  O.o
14:51.57mafm:D
14:52.17mafmwho knows, with today's surgery maybe it looks younger than the daughter
14:53.50claymoreSurgery can't turn back the clock on all aspects of a person, and looks only matter to a certain point.
14:54.08clock_turns back
14:54.48claymoreclock: Don't you dare starting singing Cher!
14:55.16claymorewaves at BRL-CAD!
14:56.56mafmhaven't heard of sciencists erasing memory in mice? mind manipulation starts to be scarying too
14:57.18mafmEternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind any day at your door
14:57.39clock_mafm: maybe they erased your memory after you heard about them!
14:58.03claymoreGreat, just what we need.  The threat of a Low Level Format of your head.  :/
14:58.46clock_please insert a blank head into the MRI device A:/
14:58.46mafmclock_: sometimes I feel like that, yep :)
14:58.53clock_mafm: alcohol?
15:00.06mafmalso, but it also happens naturally :)
15:18.19louipcwaves at claymore
15:39.17claymorewaves at louipc
15:40.26clock_http://drawn.ca/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/november-4-2008.jpg
15:40.28clock_:D
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16:04.09claymoreYeah, I saw that picture with a caption of "C-C-C-C-Combo Breaker!!!".... I lol'ed
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17:23.46claymorebrlcad:  You in today?
19:12.14brlcadbegins to wonder if claymore is going to ask him every day if he's going to be in :)
19:12.35brlcadnot with the holiday.. more productive
19:19.53claymorewell, since you have no schedule, it has to be daily :P
19:31.35brlcadit's just more chaotic than usual because of the move
19:32.56brlcadmore importantly, though ..
19:32.57brlcad~ask
19:32.58ibotask is probably Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
19:32.59brlcad:)
19:35.54starseekerscowls at the overall shape of the Mark IV and starts trying to parse it into primitives
19:36.08CIA-25BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33157 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: the mac installer doesn't have the symbolic links
19:45.08mafmhi brlcad
19:45.11mafmgoing home, bye bye
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20:53.15starseekeris taken back to the days of his physics labs :-) http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/default_lens.png
20:53.40starseekerNow all I need to do is go back to that antiques store and buy that tank scope
21:48.58brlcadstarseeker: that's pretty cool
21:49.22brlcadisn't sure the lightening is correct, but probably a limitation of phong
21:50.14starseekeralways manages to break things in new and interesting ways that no one else will ever notice :-P
21:50.41starseekerthanks for the steer to the epa primitive, you were right that it could work
21:51.04brlcadisn't sure the lightening is correct, but probably a limitation of phong?
21:51.07brlcadthat it could work? what do you mean
21:51.12brlcadoops for up-arrow
21:51.37starseekerThe epa primitive, given the correct parameters, described the sub-section of a sphere needed
21:52.13starseekerIt's actually pretty cool - the wireframes are EXACTLY on the lens surface :-)
21:53.27starseekerbrlcad:  IIRC, the conclusion was there are no open source libs we can grab that will do the point cloud -> mesh trick?
21:56.46brlcadoooh, for the lens
21:57.04brlcadI was thinking of what you were doing with the hyp primitive, never mind :)
21:57.30brlcadi'm sure there are some libs that could help with point could to meshes
21:57.38brlcadif anything, i'm sure there are some academic efforts
21:58.06brlcadthat's been a hot research topic for as long as I can remember, new approaches each year doing slightly better for different aspects
21:58.26brlcadthe naive approach can be coded up in a couple hours
21:59.35starseeker<snort> So far I've stumbled on Triangle, which is very definitely not free for commercial product use
21:59.56starseekerIs Delaunay triangulation the naive way?
22:01.39brlcadone of them, yeah
22:01.58starseekerAnd of course CGAL had to go and use QPL for their routines...
22:02.22brlcadeven just trying nearest neighbor 'can' give reasonable results with the right input data sets -- it's just flimsy as heck
22:02.41starseekernods
22:03.35brlcadthe "libs" that do this aren't likely what would come up on a google search - you'd be better of looking at research papers on getting meshes from point clouds
22:04.14brlcadone I *loved* from around 5 years ago was awesome for performing dulaney triangulation on semi-ordered point cloud inputs using a streaming processing system
22:04.47brlcademphasis there on being able to operate as a streaming processor .. that was the coolest part
22:05.02starseekerfound this one, but there's no license at all even assuming it does what we want: http://www.den.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~yu-ohtake/software/index.html
22:05.05starseekercool
22:06.31brlcadif you want to do that, I'd say just read up on the latest research (like last 5 years of papers from siggraphs and jgt) .. and then implement the best/easiest
22:07.19starseekerok.
22:07.35starseekersupposes it's not essential, but hates relying on only commercial solutions
22:08.33brlcadwe don't exactly rely on it -- we don't do anything with it at the moment
22:08.50starseekerheh, ok pont
22:08.52starseekerpoint
22:09.37brlcadpoint clouds as a starting point is historically a horrible starting point -- best just as reference points for the modeler
22:09.54starseekerhad visions of cute little tricks like subtracting a CSG model from a mesh solid to check how close the CSG model was coming
22:10.03brlcadunless you can really control the quality of the input data (e.g. a point-by-point CMS)
22:13.57brlcadit's a great idea, but to date I've yet to see someone actually save time
22:14.13brlcadyou just move the time spent on one task to another
22:14.25starseekerah
22:14.30starseekerfigures
22:14.56brlcadinstead of direct modeling, you're not spending more time healing geometry, fixing mesh problems, stitching objects together, removing anamolies, and more
22:15.36brlcadthere are some specific cases that do really well (e.g. single/simple meshes), but then you still usually need simplification and healing algorithms/tools in place
22:17.10brlcadnow for tools that have really good mesh management tools already in place (which we really don't yet), the time sink can be reduced some, but you can still spend a lot of time working on segmentation and mesh separation
22:17.26brlcadwhereas you otherwise could have just modeling it directly much more quickly
22:17.42starseekerSo the best case is probably a scan + traditional methods, with the scan providing a get out of jail free card for missed dimensional measurements?
22:19.11brlcadscan data is usually most effective as reference data
22:19.31brlcadproblem is people see all that data and invariable end up massaging thinking it'll be faster
22:19.36starseekerso what we would want then is a way to interrogate the point cloud using visual tools?
22:20.46brlcadinterrogate, visualize, manipulate
22:21.15starseekerthe new pnts primitive gets us visualization, so  far?
22:21.39brlcadbeing able to interactive select sets of points and deleting those points or separating them into their own point sets, splitting points, etc .. that's all useful
22:21.56brlcadyeah, visualization is just about "done" or done well enough for now
22:22.35starseekerisn't sure how to handle visual 3D selection of point subsets
22:22.47brlcadnew gui
22:22.57starseeker:-)
22:22.57brlcadmeshes have the same issue
22:23.08brlcadthere are ways to deal with it now, but they're clumsy
22:23.15starseekerOK.
22:24.24starseekerso extending MGED to manipulate point clouds is definitely not on the list
22:32.59brlcadfrom a command-perspective ala libged/librt, sure
22:33.14brlcadroutines to manipulate points are needed regardless
22:33.40brlcadbut making the gui mods .. not something I'd think would be worthwhile
22:34.27starseekerright
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22:59.49starseekerreally must try meshlab
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081111

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081111

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02:28.26starseekerjeez no wonder there isn't an ebuild for meshlab
02:40.45Ralith?
02:49.02starseekermessed up build procedure
02:58.36Ralithah.
02:58.38Raliththose're no fun
03:03.53starseekerplus, after all that setup, a build error
03:03.54starseekergrr
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03:35.23technovirhi
03:49.37yukonbobhi cadheads
05:05.27starseekerplays with hugin
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06:01.42starseekerconcludes he must have taken his photographs incorrectly
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06:49.25starseekerhmm - taking dimensionally useful photographs may be more of a challenge than I thought
07:10.48Ralithdimensionally useful?
07:11.00Ralithas in, photographs from which you can extract meaningful physical measurements?
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11:19.37mafmhi
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14:49.45brlcadhowdy mafm
14:55.58mafmhi brlcad
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15:42.30mafmso what's up brlcad? spending holiday time in your projects? :)
16:22.33brlcadmafm: trying to
16:22.56brlcadlittle too much context switching with shopping, but about done
16:31.07mafm:0
16:31.08mafm:)
16:31.16mafmcontext switching is annoying
16:34.19brlcadyeah
16:40.13starseekerRalith:  yeah
16:43.00starseekerbrlcad:  I suppose trying to assemble individual photographs into a whole while still have meaningful physical measurement ability isn't possible?
16:43.05starseekeror is at least really hard?
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17:35.12starseekerstarts running mentally through the math...
18:17.50brlcadstarseeker: it's possible and not "too" hard, but not trivial either -- depends on the input images and distortion types in the image
18:18.12brlcadyou generally can't do anything more than stitch them together without knowing the distortion/lens/camera characteristics
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18:45.03mafmbye, I go home
19:26.56yukonbobhello, cadheads
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23:13.07*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.0 is now posted (20081108)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081112

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081112

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02:40.36starseekergets annoyed and runs MeshLab under wine
02:42.13Ralithheh
03:28.25starseekerfiled bug report of crash, although I may have caught their svn trunk in a state of flux
03:29.16starseekergets more interested the more he sees of Meshlab...
03:29.35starseekerGPL, so can't be tied into BRL-CAD directly, but may be a useful companion program
03:29.42starseekeron the mesh side at least
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03:48.33starseekererm.  ls of the pnts test case is crashing because the rt_functab[id].ft_describe being called at wdb_obj.c 9396 is set to 0
03:48.38starseekerdoes clean rebuild
03:48.44starseekerthat can't be right
03:48.49starseekerer, l not ls
04:11.57starseekerAh, HA - http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/meshlab.png
04:12.22starseekerwhat a difference a few days makes
04:12.27starseeker(in revision history)
04:26.00starseekerreally should get back to automake, but is for some reason possessed by a fit of temporary interest in the image and point cloud/mesh aspects of all this...
05:11.28CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r33158 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/pcMathGrammar.h: Different closures for MathVM expressions
06:31.58starseekerOK, clean rebuild of latest trunk on gentoo, running l on the point object causes a seg fault
06:32.33starseekergrr
06:32.38starseekersleeps on it
07:00.11CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33159 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/wdb_obj.c: prevent primitives that don't have describe() implemented from crashing. this was happening with the new point primitive. the real fix is for all primitives to define all functions, but this shouldn't crash regardless.
07:52.23brlcadstops coding on pnts for a bit
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11:32.52claymoreMornin all.
11:48.00claymorebrlcad:  So I have been doing lots of thinking about the UUName implimentation.  What about using a URI?  Nearly the same thing.  Well, actually, I cannot find a difference between the two concepts actually :)
11:48.36claymoreErik and I had a decent talk last week and he brought up a good point about potiential file system issues should we attempt to spawn too many small files.
11:49.55claymoreSo since a brlcad db file is really just another filesystem, but only 'in a can' then why not abstract the URI away from both the Computer's File system AND the brlcad File system?
11:50.11claymorefor instance:
11:50.17claymoregiven the URI of:
11:51.05claymorecad://dloman@sassyhost/hardware/fasteners/bolts.g/9.16th/3inch/aluminum/dwaynesbolt/bolt01.s
11:51.28claymorefrom the actual storage aspect of it:
11:51.53claymore'hardware' and 'fasteners' are directories on the computer's Filesystem
11:52.11claymore'bolts.g' is a file (duh)
11:52.49claymore'9.16th', '3inch' and 'aluminum' are all combinations inside the db file.
11:53.00claymore'dwaynesbolt' is a region (in the db file)
11:53.14claymoreand 'bolt01.s' is a solid (in the db file)
11:53.32claymoreBUT, as seen by the user of iBME:
11:54.22claymore'hardware', 'fasteners', 'bolts.g', '9.16th', '3inch' and 'aluminum' are all combinations.
11:54.30claymore'dwaynesbolt' is a region.
11:54.44claymore> and 'bolt01.s' is a solid .
11:55.47claymoreNote that the 'bolts.g' need not have the .g extention.  I just put it there to make it obvious where the switch from OS-FS to BRLCAD-DB occured.
11:56.36claymoreThis would allow the admin of a given iBME installation to place the 'FS-transition point' anywhere in the heirarchy of storage on their system.
11:57.47claymorethis should address the problems of: 1) Too many small files will eat up the inodes too fast. 2) Fewer ginormous files might impact performance and be the source of more SVN conflicts
11:58.03claymorebreaths finally.
11:58.28claymoreComments? ;)
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13:12.13mafmhi
13:12.29claymorehai!
13:45.37brlcadclaymore: using a URI isn't much different than what I was talking about last week about using a URL (as a URL is a URI)
13:46.05claymorerighto.  Was thinking of using URI in place or a UUNAME
13:46.11claymorein place of
13:46.18brlcadreally don't want to get stuck in the weeds, though as both those issues are optimization issues
13:46.32brlcadand as the saying goes, premature optimization is the root of all evil
13:47.04claymore...right, but how we look up resources is a foundation.... need to pick *something*
13:47.24brlcadsure, but that doesn't have anything to do with what actually happens on the data store side
13:47.36claymoreso I picked a URI, but not necessarily a Unique uri quite yet.
13:47.43brlcadthey could be tied together, but they certainly don't need to
13:49.25brlcadthe only (hard) problem to be solved with using a URL (I don't see the need to use URNs at this point so we really should already be limited to URLs, URI is the superset) is uniqueness across the DAG
13:50.23claymorethats why I was asking about the whole 'Is a dag still a dag when its laid out like a tree, but just references other branches'
13:50.41brlcador more perhaps more importantly, non-uniqueness .. how to identify that the same object is used in different contexts but also has its own context
13:51.31claymoreI am pretty sure that how I have it laid out will be able to handle using a single object in multiple contexts.
13:52.48claymorethats all brlcad does now in its db is use refernces & matricies..... single object multiple contexts...
13:53.05brlcadreferentially, it's representable by a DAG regardless of how it's encoded -- the DAG is only "broken" if you replicate data (e.g. turn it into a binary tree)
13:53.43claymoredon't quite understand the 'replicate data' statement.
13:53.45brlcadsure, but the only way we get away with that now is through a file-scoped namespace
13:54.37brlcadwe're not going to have a file-scope any more so we're either stuck implementing some scoping mechanism or finding a better uniqueness identification scheme not based on scope
13:54.52claymoreExactly, file scoped namespace can be synonymous to a system using truely Unique URI's....right?
13:56.41brlcadit's not clear what you mean by 'using truely unique URIs' -- before going down that path, do you get the difference between URIs, URLs, and URNs?
13:57.04claymoreURI and URL yes... not familiar with URNs
13:57.24brlcadyou can't really understand uri's without urn's :)
13:58.00claymoreso I see. :)  Yes I get the differences.
13:58.02brlcadthey're simple -- it's sort of like the difference between your postal address and your name
13:58.29brlcadboth urls and urns are uris
13:59.13brlcaduri is just "handle on something", url is "here's a location for this thing", urn is "here is the name of something"
13:59.46claymoreOkay, so we can use URNs as what I was calling UUName, and URL's as the mechanism to look up these resources.....
14:00.37brlcadand the line between the two is pretty fuzzy, but for talking point purposes, urn is probably equivalent to some cad://UUID protocol, url would be how objects are located in the object store, uri is just a generic term that refers to finding something
14:02.59brlcadfwiw, UUID is not /path/to/some/object, UUID is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UUID -- that's the thing that I was talking about that if we use them, they shouldn't be exposed anywhere
14:03.19claymoreunderstood the UUID concepts.
14:03.51brlcadhence the discussion lending towards using a URL scheme that manages the scoping issues (but again has little/nothing to do with the implementation)
14:03.57claymoreBut the more I look over and plan things out, the less I see the need for a UUID since a good URL will give us what we need anyways...
14:04.33brlcadabsolutely, that will be a good feature as it'd reduce complexity
14:04.44brlcadand I'm all about keeping things as simple as possible for starters :)
14:05.00claymoreSorry its taking me so long to finally come around to what you have been saying all along lol :)
14:05.23brlcadbut I do think (for better or worse) that it probably will eventually be needed to really solve the referencing problems
14:05.43claymore... what will be needed? "URL's" ?
14:05.44brlcadi'd be happy to be wrong on that point, though :)
14:05.50brlcaduuid's
14:06.30claymoreHrm.  Guess i dont see the referencing problem then...
14:08.01claymoreif the URL's used are truely Unique, then having any combination refer to another object is as simple as using the URL....
14:08.08claymore...and a matrix :)
14:08.27brlcadhm, how to describe
14:08.45claymorelol, slowly appreantly.
14:08.54brlcadyou can have two unique URLs that refer to the same object in different contexts or in the same context even
14:09.02claymoretries to make his brain more receptive.
14:10.09claymoreOkay, got that part...
14:10.43brlcadit's like how many ways can I describe your address -- there are lots of paths to get there, but for our purposes we need to know that paths /A/B/C and /D/E/C both lead to the same C for the purposes of applying operations and managing the geometry effectively
14:11.12brlcadand "C" is not a unique key, so we can't just use that
14:12.23claymoreTrue.  But here's what I thought:
14:12.29brlcadalso don't really want to enforce a global namespace on all object names (e.g. I cannot name my sphere "sph" because there is already one 'somewhere' in the system)
14:12.48claymore'c' is the object, which isn't unique.
14:12.53brlcadobjects are initially created context-less too
14:12.57brlcads/less/free/
14:13.29claymorea/b/c is the URL, which IS unique and differs from all other things because a/b/c is NOT d/e/c
14:13.54starseekerdoes happy dance - got cell data converted to a mesh in Meshlab and loaded into mged as a dxf
14:14.12claymoregives starseeker a 'good game'
14:14.19claymore:)
14:14.46starseekerwe now return you to your regularly scheduled URL lesson :-P
14:15.19brlcadstarseeker: I applied a patch for the l crash, but haven't tested it
14:15.39claymorebrlcad:  so, having 'c' by itself really doen't mean much, because on can only refer to an object by using its URL.
14:15.51starseekerbrlcad:  works
14:16.01brlcad"because on can" hm?
14:16.02starseekercell.s: list support unimplemented
14:16.08brlcadah, one
14:16.27claymorelaughs and points at himself. Bad engrish day... as usual.
14:16.46starseekercheers engrish
14:17.34starseekerbrlcad:  unfortunately, for some reason I still don't get anything with e cell.s
14:18.14starseekeryet the .g is over a meg, so there's clearly something in there
14:18.40brlcadstarseeker: hrm, you sure they're not just dots the same color as your background or something?
14:19.15starseekerI doubt it - I'm using my custom tanish background color
14:19.22starseekertweaks just to be sure
14:19.55starseekernope
14:20.37brlcadtry a db get
14:20.41starseekerwhen I add a weight factor I get one sphere, without it I get one xyz coordinate
14:20.45brlcadtry manually creating just two points :)
14:20.58starseekerseg fault
14:21.04starseekeron the dbget
14:21.17brlcadhrm, sounds like another place that needs patching
14:21.21brlcadah right
14:21.58starseekercreating just two points, I get one sphere
14:21.58brlcadthat calls _adjust() which probably isn't implemented
14:22.18brlcadand probably not protected like _describe() .. you should apply a similar fix :)
14:22.31starseekerok
14:22.36starseekermakes note
14:22.36brlcadthey're crashes that should only occur with incomplete primitives, but good to fix regardless
14:23.09brlcaddid you create it interactively or as one long in line?
14:23.14starseekerinteractively
14:23.26brlcadhrm
14:23.31starseekerclaymore:  sorry
14:23.36brlcadwell no matter, I've rewritten most of that already
14:23.40starseeker:-)
14:23.55claymoreno worries:) Brain Neaing Capacity warning light was on anyways.
14:24.01starseekerbrlcad:  is it OK to post screenshots with that cell data or is that a no-no?
14:24.04claymoreNearing
14:24.32louipc
14:24.41brlcadadding support for normals/vectors, per-point scaling, per-point colors, adds quite a bit of complexity
14:24.53starseekereeep.
14:24.58starseekercan see how it would
14:25.12brlcadisn't sure what cell data you're referring to
14:25.25starseekerthe one you bounced to me a few days ago as a points example
14:25.30starseekerin with the presentations
14:25.51brlcadthe engine?
14:26.12starseekerdon't think so - it's just a point cloud from a scan of a blackberry or some such
14:26.53starseekernevermind
14:26.57starseekernot all that exciting
14:27.00brlcadI've not seen that yet, but afaik, there's nothing you have you can't show that crowd
14:28.03starseekerok
14:28.04brlcadand if it's a phone, especially .. that's probably someone's personal phone
14:28.12starseekersure
14:29.19starseekermoot point anyway as yet - I doubt they'd care about Meshlab screenshots
14:29.25starseekerneeds MGED :-)
14:29.35starseekerI'll try again at work on the Mac
14:30.08starseekerspeaking of which...
14:30.12brlcadI don't get why it wouldn't work for you -- the last revision was working before release
14:30.26starseekerFor some reason it's never worked on this box
14:30.26brlcadmaybe something didn't get committed, or something did that shouldn't have, dunno
14:30.37starseekerhasn't tested at work yet
14:30.49brlcadshould just fix it regardless of the cause ;)
14:31.03starseekerprobably you already have :-)
14:31.08brlcadimplement 'l' so you can at least see the data
14:31.20brlcadi've not implemented l
14:31.30starseekeris guessing whatever walks the pnts data to draw it is just hanging up somehow on the first point
14:31.36starseekerright
14:31.57starseekerl should be easy enough
14:33.21starseekerhits the road and hopes the road won't hit back
14:33.53claymoreloves pineapple... yum!
14:34.11brlcaddoes similar though with probably a lot more pitstops
14:35.05claymorebrlcad: lee has been in twice and looked at your desk each time.  Just a heads up :)
14:35.50brlcadclaymore: okay
14:55.45claymoreerik:  you alive?
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16:51.21``Erikat times, yes, 'sup?
17:15.53claymoreJust havent heard anything from ya in a bit.
17:43.57``Erikwas down sick :/ fortunately, rdo+holiday covered me on that *sigh* still feeling like crap, but far less bad
17:44.32claymorewell glad to hear you're feeling better then.  just the standard cold?
17:46.33``Eriknot sure, stuffed sinus, nausea, headache, deep cough, fever, delirium, bad interplay between it all and the alcohol :(
17:47.20claymorehell that sounds horrid.  were you well enough to at least get some good mmo time in?
17:47.41``Erikno, I couldn't even be assed to reset my cable modem or dick with a 'puter
17:47.59``ErikI got my new macbook monday, it's sitting on my floor halfway through the initial configuration
17:48.18claymoresassy :)
17:49.30``Erikand someone scrapped my fleet, plundered the tr's and got the derbs while I was down, effin' lame
17:49.49claymorewhoa... which planet?
17:50.04``Erikone in 65, I'll post br when I'm caught up on some stuff
17:50.12claymorekk.
17:50.36claymorethere is a serious buildup of 7E in E37:44, so watch out.  That 'nick' guy is pulling about about 1.6 mil.
17:50.57``ErikI'd moved fighters and stuff off to my newest for growth cover intending to cycle them back up quickly, but I stopped focusing on it all :(
17:53.17claymoreyeah, I have lost a bit of focus also.  Mostly simming now ;)
18:09.05CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33160 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/docs/ (BME.eap GS.eap): Continuing Architecture Work.
20:19.34mafmI go home, see you!
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23:58.33CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33161 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/Makefile.am: old automake can't deal with per-product CPPFLAGS so make bombardier use CFLAGS instead
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081113

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081113

00:44.27CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33162 10/jbrlcad/trunk/ (90 files in 13 dirs): Refactored package names (they all start with "org.brlcad" now)
00:56.10Ralithjbrlcad is actually active?
00:57.56Ralithisn't sure whether this is a good thing
01:11.51brlcadRalith: yeah, there is some light activity
01:12.31Raliththat is amusing
01:12.52Ralithin light of the barriers to tweaking vector syntax due to performance impact
01:16.11brlcaduntil the geometry service is online, the jbrlcad approach is pretty convenient for them just because it's just barely enough to open a binary .g file without needing a JNI layer
01:17.02brlcadwell the project they're using it for has a completely different perspective and set of requirements for performance than we do for modeling purposes
01:17.05Ralithah.
01:17.33brlcadthe vector syntax is at the heart of ray-tracing too .. and jbrlcad is nowhere near being a replacement to actually shoot rays
01:17.43Ralithwell, yeah
01:17.44brlcadit'll shoot at a few of the simple primitives
01:17.47Ralithstill
01:17.52Ralithit made a nice visceral comparison :P
01:18.08Ralith(bet you didn't expect to see that applied to code!)
01:18.21brlcadwhat do you mean?
01:18.56Raliththe word visceral
01:26.38``Erikklingon code does not have parameters. it has arguments. and it always wins them!
01:26.45``Erikruns autogen.sh on his new macbook
01:28.12Ralithhehe
01:31.58brlcadRalith: ah, heh, k
01:32.23Ralithworried I'd snuck in a commit while nobody was watching, or something? :P
02:03.52CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33163 10/jbrlcad/trunk/ (build.xml test/test.g): Added build.xml and test.g
02:08.46CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33164 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Removed empty directories
02:32.11CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33165 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/ (info/ info/RegionInfo.java samples/GetRegionMap.java): Refactored GetRegionMap.java to create a Regionlnfo class
02:51.15CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33166 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/info/RegionInfo.java: Added map from ident to region path
06:23.50starseekerOK, here's the point cloud -> mesh process via open source only tools
06:24.24starseekerstep 1 - take xyz point cloud and stick a v in front of each point, save as a .obj file
06:24.34starseekerstep 2 - import into meshlab:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/phone_meshlab_pnts.png
06:27.08starseekerRun Filters->Ball Pivoting Surface Reconstruction to build the mesh (for the screenshot extra colorizing was applied to improve the visual effect):  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/phone_meshlab_mesh.png
06:28.02starseekerSave the result as a .dxf file, import into MGED using dxf-g, and raytrace:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/phone_mged_render.png
06:29.01starseekerthere are probably lots of things that could have been done to improve the mesh once generated inside meshlab, but for the purposes of quick illustration of the possibility it's not bad
06:29.14starseekerat least for a completely free toolchain :-)
06:48.51Axman6starseeker: nice :)
06:49.18Axman6not sure what you did, but it looks cool
07:28.47RalithI wonder why the screen has such mangled height information
07:28.52Ralithreflective I guess
07:28.55Ralithor something
07:38.41RalithI'd be amazed if that algo couldn't be optimized to find flat surface, though
07:38.46Ralithand it did a remarkably bad job on the backdrop
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07:56.00louipc/clear/clear
08:17.28CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33167 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/color.c: implement bu_color_to_rgb_floats and bu_color_of_rgb_floats so the points primitive can use them. untested but they seem trivial enough given they match the internal format of bu_color structures.
08:18.41CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33168 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: don't speculate. only declare the interfaces that are actually provided by libbu. commented out a handful of bu_color_* conversion routines that were apparently never implemented.
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11:54.36mafmhi
12:11.28AFK-claymoreMornin all!
12:16.05claymorestarseeker:  Been doing lots of thinking about your image-stiching-then-measuring idea... I am wondering if there is a way to 'use a flash' on the camera to eliminate shadows... THEN a conversion to greyscale and subsequent heightmap extrusion into a mesh *MIGHT* actually work!
13:03.39CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r33169 10/jbrlcad/trunk/src/org/brlcad/ (info/RegionInfo.java samples/GetRegionMap.java): Slight Improvement in the way RegionInfo is constructed
13:08.15dlomango go jBRLCAD
13:54.14mafmNullPointerException
13:54.16mafm:P
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14:29.04starseekergrowl
14:29.43starseekereither my camera is wrong about its parameters, I don't have enough vertical and horizontal features to get a good read, or something is buggered
14:31.17dlomanwhat camera do you have?
14:31.24starseekerCanon A540
14:32.18starseekerOr I could just be so damn close to the thing that parallax is killing me for any dimension more than a foot or so away from camera lens center
14:32.29dlomandecent camera.  What do you mean by 'vert and horx' features?
14:32.35dlomanhorx = horz
14:33.13starseekerI'm distorting pictures of a tank to try and get an orthogonal photo of the whole side of it, but trying to do so is not resulting in images that can be cleanly overlapped
14:34.56dlomandistorting how?  on the edges?
14:35.37starseekercorrecting for lens effects and (hopefully) perspective
14:36.07dlomanhave you tried a wide angle lens if you are so close up?
14:36.21starseekershould, but I only have one camera
14:36.27starseekerand zero budget
14:37.05starseekerhttp://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/overlap_example.png
14:37.10starseekerthat's what's happening
14:37.49starseekernotice the center area where everything lines up, and things on the overlayed image sort of radiate displacement from that aligned center
14:38.44starseekerI can manually fiddle a bit, but it will only get but so close
14:39.07starseekerand the whole point was to be able to get automatically an image that can yield dimensional information
14:39.24starseekerclearly not much chance of that here :-(
14:40.16starseekerI might be able to do OK in individual images if I have an on-site measurement to calibrate each one, but if I can't correct to the point where they overlap that's suspect
14:40.30starseekerI guess I need to sit down and actually work through the math
14:41.41starseekerIt may be I can only expect a teeny tiny reasonable area from this distance, or perhaps a wide angle lens would help too
14:43.20starseekerI can upload the available image sets if anybody knows how to do this better and is interested
14:44.14dlomansorry, was on phone.
14:44.19starseekernp
14:44.28``Erikwhat formula are you using for adjustment as you deviate from the center of the lense? I'm sure it's not a perfectly linear transition
14:44.53starseekerI was trying to use Hugin to get a rectilinear transformation
14:45.24``Erikdoesn't it use regional morphing at the seams?
14:45.33starseekerisn't sure
14:45.46dlomanour back up camera is a Canon A650IS, so its very similar to your 540.  On the front, around the retractable lense, is a detachable retainer ring.  You can pull that ring off, add an extention tube, and fix std size canon lenses/filters on the end.
14:46.29dlomanwe have the extion tube, a .48x wide angle and a 50-200 tele lense for it that you are more than welcome to borrow.
14:46.59``Erikpheer my ancient olympus crap box that's been dropped and abused so much that it no longer works right O.o work policies have be being safe and simply not owning one, would hate to accidently leave it in the car and get in trouble
14:47.01dlomanalso, I can get my rebel xti and brind it to the museum someday if you need it.
14:48.03dlomanerik:  easy enough to get around.  You are allowed to have a camera on base, just not in the secure compound.  On the days I bring cameras on base, I just park in the lot in front of 328.
14:48.25dlomanbesides, I need to walk more anyways.  *pats gut*
14:48.46``ErikI've thought about that
14:48.56``Erikparking infront of 328 and walking more, not your gut, settle down
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14:49.07starseekerdloman:  That could be awesome - thank you!  Let me crunch some numbers first though - I think it's time to figure out what the theoretical limits are (also a good way to figure out what the *beep* I'm doing)
14:49.26starseekerah, good point
14:49.37starseekerneeds to park in front of 328 - forgot about that
14:50.31dlomanstarseeker:  based on what I am seeing in the pick you linked, the left to right seams look okay, but you are getting some serious top & bottom parallax.  If you stiched 3 pics across, you should stitch 3 up as well to make the 3x3.  right now it looks like a 3x1...
14:50.45dlomanOh, standup branch meeting in 10 mins
14:50.48dlomanyay
14:50.57starseekerah, crap
14:51.01starseekertake notes for me
14:51.06dlomanwill do.
14:51.11``Erikvagually recalls making a stink about vertical parallax yesterday afternoon :D
14:51.22starseekeryeah yeah
14:51.23CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33170 10/rt^3/trunk/ (8 files in 2 dirs): demonstration of an idea of how BRL-CAD database objects could be addressed from an external application
14:51.25starseekeryou were right
14:51.36starseekerI just hoped it'd be a tad less severe
14:52.46starseekerWell, here are the "artsy" shots anyway:  p5B14FA20
14:52.53starseekerer http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/markiv/
14:52.57dlomantbh, minimizing parallax is easy.  Just stand 500 ft away and use a telephoto.
14:53.01dloman:)
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14:53.19starseekeryeah, great - we'll just have them move the tank to the middle of the field
14:53.25``Erikheh, I vagually recall saying something like that, too, except I think I said 'optical zoom', cuz I'm not really a camera weenie
14:53.32starseekerand watch it fall apart in a cloud of rust dust...
14:53.59dlomanis there a reason you picked *this* tank?
14:54.20``Erikancient and historic
14:54.30starseekerthat's part of it - no one will care about it :-)
14:54.40``Erikhopes the names on the side are crew signatures and not recent additions :(
14:54.53dlomanor could you pick a tank on the edge of the museum where we *can* be 500+ ft away, on a tripod, with a telephoto?
14:55.20starseekerplus there have been some scans done on this one - I'm hoping having more data available as a control will allow "checks" on various techniques
14:55.30starseekeroh, sure
14:55.59starseekerif you don't get taken out by sniper fire for wandering around with a big telephoto on a military base ;-)
14:56.00``Erikancient american ones may have historic blueprints or design information available via our library
14:56.23``Erikno, you'll get 5 trucks show up awfully fast if they got concerned
14:56.30starseekerthere aren't any american tanks I'm aware of ancient enough to be out of copyright in the US
14:56.35dlomanYou drastically over estimate the security here.... :/
14:56.38``Erikbad form to shoot tourists in the us
14:56.39``Erik:D
14:56.48starseekeraw
14:57.14dlomanmeeting time.
14:57.18``Erikayup
14:57.19starseekerk
14:57.22starseekerI
14:57.28starseekerm heading in now
14:57.52starseekersighs - at least Ed will like the math part
15:04.15PrezKennedymaths is hard!
15:25.58CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33171 10/brlcad/trunk/include/rtgeom.h: make the magic number be an unsigned long
15:26.39CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33172 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: remove the wdb_fflush declaration since the implementation was removed earlier
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15:36.33dlomanPrez: I think that its *awesome* that the statement you uttered is nearly identical to what the very first 'talking Barbie' said :)  Imagine that... a disproportioned blonde bombshell stating "Math is hard."  LOL
15:39.00clock_In that case Math is a name of a male.
15:39.12clock_Maybe abbreviation of Mathew?
15:40.19dlomanewww... bad joke clock :(
15:58.33``Erikin a class all his own
16:00.00dlomanErik:  Hopefully not Special Ed Clas..... ;)
16:00.25``Erikaw, c'mon now, hockey helmets alone bring things up to a positive number
16:00.34``ErikO:-)
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16:01.29dlomantimmehhh!
16:02.24dlomanis begining to question brlcad's existance.
16:02.46``Erikheh
16:03.20``Erikwell, he's committing, so unless it's an at job or something
16:04.32dlomanor.... its the super AI computer he created just prior to his death and that computer has been working on BRLCAD ever since...... O.o
16:04.40``Erikuhm
16:05.01``Erikthat was 12 years ago, the thing you've seen in the office is animatronic
16:05.17``Erik(explains a lot, don't it?)
16:05.46dlomanspeaking of potentially horrid plotlines, has anyone seen that new series 'The Seeker of Truth' or something like that?
16:05.57dlomansupposedly based on T Goodkinds books.
16:06.17dlomanMissed the first 2 episodes, but wanted to see at least one.  Anyone?
16:13.41CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33173 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (librt/primitives/pnts/pnts.c mged/typein.c): (log message trimmed)
16:13.41CIA-62BRL-CAD: okay, so commit this since this is at least back into a compiling state. this
16:13.41CIA-62BRL-CAD: adds support for reading in pnts that optionally have an orientation, per-point
16:13.41CIA-62BRL-CAD: color values, and per-point sizes. the typein interface is slightly different
16:13.41CIA-62BRL-CAD: from others in that it asks a handful of yes/no questions that then determines
16:13.45CIA-62BRL-CAD: the variable number of arguments that follow. export support is only done for
16:13.47CIA-62BRL-CAD: two of the eight pnt types and import support is just wrong (it'll crash if you
16:16.18CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33174 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: pnts needs some work. import, export, and file input.
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17:03.20mafmbrlcad: what do you use for indentation of source code files? emacs or some command line tool (or emacs command of some sort?)
18:08.23brlcadmafm: emacs does a great job at indentation, there are a variety of commands you can use
18:08.58mafmbut it's cumbersome to iterate over all files of a hierarchy by hand :)
18:09.11brlcadthere's a script in the brlcad repository to that will automatically indent all files in a directory
18:09.21brlcadthat's what find is for ;)
18:09.42brlcadfind src/librt -name \*.c -exec sh/indent.sh {} \;
18:11.07brlcadmost effective if you ensure that the files all have a local variables footer first so it kicks off the right style
18:11.41brlcad(there's a script for that too, sh/footer.sh)
18:11.50mafmthat I already added with find command :)
18:13.55brlcadfwiw, the emacs command is 'indent-region' -- it applies whatever style is currently set for the given mode
18:13.55mafmok, so I was asking for the contents of indent.sh
18:13.57mafmthanks :)
18:14.37mafmyes, but if you do it by hand you have to open each file, select the beginning, go to de end, and execute the "indent-region" thing
18:14.58mafmwhich I do for individual files, but not very suitable for a lot of them at once :)
18:15.24brlcadindent.sh basically runs: emacs -batch -f batch-indent-region  which is a function I wrote, lives in misc/batch-indent-region.el
18:16.19brlcadthat overrides case-label and statement-case-open so that switch/case statements indent properly, marks the whole file as a region, then runs indent-region
18:16.29brlcadand saves the file
18:17.17brlcademacs -batch -l batch-indent-region.el -f batch-indent-region *.c
18:17.29mafmyup, I was already digging
18:17.32mafmnice
18:17.47mafmso that's why knowing LISP is worth!
18:17.49mafm:P
18:18.02brlcadyup
18:18.43mafmdoesn't "indent" or similar tools do the same job?
18:19.13brlcadfor C, sure
18:19.58brlcadbut I think emacs even handles C a bit better (and a variety of common styles are predefined, not just gnu's)
18:20.03mafmdo they understand the local variables thing?
18:20.14mafmah, so indent is hardcoded somehow
18:20.25brlcadadd to that the fact that emacs handles dozens of other languages and you have a winning indentation setup
18:20.54brlcadthey == who?
18:21.05brlcadindent doesn't know about local vars, that's an emacs thing
18:21.24mafmthey, indent-like tools
18:21.31brlcadrun 'indent' on some c++ code and you'll see how it sucks nuts
18:21.41mafmoh :)
18:21.56brlcadgnu indent does a little better
18:22.13brlcadbsd indent is C-only iirc
18:23.24brlcadbcpp would normally be what you'd use instead of indent if you had c++
18:23.59brlcadbut then you have multiple sets of indenters, inconsistent indent rules .. emacs makes it a lot easier to make it all uniform
18:25.28``Erikbsd indent  breaks c++ like ma
18:25.35``Erikmad
18:25.41mafmit's not very coherent, it seems :D
18:26.00mafmwhen I open the file again by hand and press tab, it reindents some stuff
18:26.41mafm(in emacs)
18:27.37CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33175 10/brlcad/trunk/include/conf/Makefile.am: since we print the timestamp, that's good enough indication that each invocation of make generates a new timestamp
18:28.30``Erikboth  classic (bsd) indent and gindent to mess stuf up a bit, I tend to use the '=' command in vim to fix things up if I can... one of the things that emacs has been annoying me with is how poorly it indents lisp code :( (yeah, wtf)
19:00.29brlcadmafm: tab can be bound to lots of different things -- depending on how you have things set up
19:01.29brlcad``Erik: that's probably just the default lisp style -- it's fully configurable.. default indent for C code sucks horribly too because it defaults to gnu style (which hardly anybody but gnu projects use)
19:04.43``Erikmeh, vim needed some C tweaking, too, but the lisp formatting came out of the box spot on... (of course, that's CL style, not elisp) :)
19:05.16``Erikit's easier to bitch than to learn how to fix the defaults in the config file :)
19:05.36``Erikwill continue using both
19:10.01CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33176 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/repository.sh:
19:10.01CIA-62BRL-CAD: add a cppflags check to make sure there are not per-product cppflags being set.
19:10.01CIA-62BRL-CAD: this came up during the last release and several other releases causing build
19:10.01CIA-62BRL-CAD: failures (because they're not supported prior to automake 1.7). ignore the
19:10.01CIA-62BRL-CAD: BREP_CPPFLAGS as a false positive since it's only presently set to AM_CPPFLAGS
19:10.04CIA-62BRL-CAD: (which works).
19:17.24mafmhmm
19:17.24mafmwell, I thought that the main function of tab in this context was indenting
19:19.40brlcadit is, but in interactive non-batch mode, different files initialize
19:19.54brlcadit should be bound to indent-for-tab-command unless you changed it
19:25.49mafmI see
19:26.14mafmwell, it's easier than changing everything by hand when there are lots of them anyway, it works very well!
19:26.31mafmg3d is mostly clean so I didn't fix anything :)
19:26.37mafmnow I have to go, see you!
19:26.42brlcadsee ya
19:26.48brlcadalready ran indent at some point :)
19:26.52brlcad(several times)
19:26.54mafmand thanks :)
19:34.40CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33177 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: more path issues, rt doesn't appear to obey the path and gives copious overlaps and displays the wrong object if you e up a /path/to/something in mged and run rt.
19:52.43CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33178 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/docs/BME.eap: Continuing Architecture Work.
20:03.54``Erikis that bugs thing related to what ed and lee were talking about? e /car/suspension/frwheel.r; rt raytraces /car instead of just the frwheel.r ?
20:04.45brlcadyes
20:05.01brlcadshould be an easy fix
20:07.02``Erikthat was my thought during lunch
20:17.44brlcadnotes that "Continuing Architecture Work" conveys absolutely nothing about what actually changed..
20:21.09``Erikeh?
20:21.31starseekerDave's last commit message
20:22.12brlcadmight as well have said "changed some stuff" :)
20:22.28``Erikah, gotcha
20:22.51``Eriksvn commit -m 'did things. And... stuff.''
20:23.31``Erikwants vim editing of his irc buffer :(
20:35.32brlcadhum, looks like idents needs to be rewritten
20:35.44brlcadlots of reliance on unixisms, tmp files, and system()
20:36.00brlcadit's amazing it even does anything at all on windows
20:39.24CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33179 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: rewrite the tables command to not suck
20:39.28``Erikum, lee was only able to recall 3/5 of his list, did you get the full thing from him (or ed)?
20:40.17brlcadi'm just looking at the trackers
20:40.51brlcaddon't exactly need to go looking for more
20:41.10brlcadunless you're about done fixing all of them already :P
20:41.29``Erikmarks all of them as 'not a problem for me' and moves on :D
20:44.07``Erikcan't find crap on their new page layout heh
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23:47.09CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33180 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
23:47.09CIA-62BRL-CAD: plans for the next iteration (2 weeks remaining) for me include optimizing bitv
23:47.09CIA-62BRL-CAD: counting, pnts, and incrTcl. add an item to document bot_dump, drop tables
23:47.09CIA-62BRL-CAD: rewrite until later. others devs should document their plans for the upcoming
23:47.09CIA-62BRL-CAD: two weeks too as well as next month.
23:54.51CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33181 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: Let's get the poor hyp primitive tied off
23:56.16``Erik_adds "play lots of 'Wrath of the Lich King'" to TODO
23:58.52brlcadwonders if ``Erik will ever be a productive coder again
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081114

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081114

00:00.36``Erik_well, I've poked code here and there, but my gf kinda ruined me :D *duck*
00:01.13punkrockgirlno, you cant play wotlk until you do some other things...
00:01.23punkrockgirland um, i ruined you?
00:01.28punkrockgirl:(
00:01.36``Erik_:D
00:01.40punkrockgirl:~(
00:06.50``Erik_lovely
01:01.49brlcadbah, you're an independently reasoning being -- your actions are your own doing, personal responsibility for ones own actions and all that :)
01:03.10brlcadyou could be productive if you wanted to be, it's at least not lack of hours in the day or someone keeping your fingers off the keyboard
01:07.07brlcadneeds more hours and more fingers! muahaha
01:26.23CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33182 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/docs/BME.eap: Continuing Architecture Work.
01:26.38``Erik_more hours, definitely, d'no about more fingers
01:27.10``Erik_I think I was able to get about 2 hours of coding done today, the rest was rife with special requests, questions, etc
01:27.35``Erik_needs to build himself a secret office
01:30.43``Erik_now that's irritating
01:31.00``Erik_leopard has lost rosetta?
01:36.54``Erik_hrm, probably just weird rsync behavior
02:23.45punkrockgirla secret office in my basement? ;)
04:31.42yukonbobhello, cadheads
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11:27.59dlomannorning all
11:35.32claymoremafm: Hey, did you just check in some changes to /rt^3/src/coreInterface/ ?
11:39.21CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33183 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/docs/BME.eap: Continuing Architecture Work: Core 3 levels of objects defined: Geometry Engine <- Geometry Service <- iBME
11:40.39mafmhi
11:40.45mafmno claymore, no idea about that
11:41.01mafmI never touched anything in rt3 besides src/g3d, AFAICR
11:41.07mafmor data related to g3d
11:43.51claymoreis /src/g3d the prototype gui you were working on?
11:50.18mafmyes
11:50.26mafmso in rt3 I didn't touch anything else
11:50.35claymoreI still blame you.
11:50.40claymorelaughs
11:50.44claymorejust kidding.
11:50.50mafmI did some not-completely-successful incursions in trunk, but... :)
11:51.10claymoretrying to learn the lay of the land in rt^3 since I am prolly going to be making major changes to the structure.
11:51.15mafmso unless OMG I've been hax0red, no it wasn't me :D
11:52.37claymoresince I will be doing some re-org in the near future, I want to feel out who all is actively in rt^3 so I don't step on toes. :/
11:55.10mafmwell, so no problem for me
11:55.24mafmunless you touch g3d, then I would have to kill you :)
11:55.53claymorerolls up his sleeves, ready to come out swinging :)
11:55.54mafmwell, you can change that also, if you want
11:56.17mafmI never though much about the location
11:56.45mafmsean suggested in there because it was in line with the ideas in there, and was mainly independent from the rest of the code anyway
11:56.59claymoreI will be putting up organization on the brlcad.org/wiki
11:57.36claymoreto evoke comments that I will most likely igonre >8-)
12:00.44claymore...that too was a joke. :P
12:02.53mafmxD
12:03.05mafmignoring wiki comments in common practice anyway
12:07.03claymorewhere did you stash the Orge libraries?
12:07.48claymoreanyone:  haven't looked, but are the boost libraries in the BRLCAD src  the FULL library set, or a stripped down set?
12:13.21CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33184 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/docs/BME.eap: (log message trimmed)
12:13.21CIA-62BRL-CAD: Continuing Architecture Work (GeometryEngine Namespace):
12:13.21CIA-62BRL-CAD: 1) Architected GeometryManager: provides a high level interface for retrieving,
12:13.21CIA-62BRL-CAD: caching and saving Geometry. Considering a rename to ResourceManager since
12:13.24CIA-62BRL-CAD: 'Geometry' no longer accurately describes ALL data types handled by
12:13.26CIA-62BRL-CAD: GeometryManager.
12:13.28CIA-62BRL-CAD: 2) Architected AbstractResourceSource: a fully virtual base class that
12:13.33brlcadyay, more detailed comments :)
12:13.44brlcadclaymore: they're stripped down
12:13.55brlcadthere's a boost tool that will pull the subset in use
12:14.02claymoreknows not what you mean. ;)
12:14.21claymorepull it from the boost website?
12:14.28brlcadhm?
12:15.10claymore'there's a boost tool that will pull the subset in use'  I dont understand this statement.  There is a tool on their website, in our src, ???
12:15.14brlcadthere is a tool in boost that will look at source code (that uses boost) and determine what headers exactly are needed for that code to compile
12:15.45brlcadand it will extract that portion of the boost headers so you can bundle them
12:16.10claymoreThis scan & extraction happens at compile time?
12:16.38brlcadno, this happens sometime before manually by a developer looking to figure out what portions of boost they need
12:16.54claymoreokay, i understand.
12:17.00brlcadso you don't pull too much, don't include the kitchen sink, etc
12:17.08brlcadboost is too big to include *everything*
12:17.26claymoreso.. .back to the original question... anyone know which portions of boost are already in our src tree?
12:17.27brlcadand they have a tool that determines the exact subset you need anyways
12:18.12brlcaderhm, we have exactly what we need -- it's not like it even exactly breaks it out by packages, it's actual header use
12:18.34brlcadso if you add something new that uses boost, have to rerun the tool and/or evaluate the new usage
12:19.04brlcadit was mostly portions of spirit in use by the constraint and parametric equation support
12:19.23claymorethis tool:  it writes a specific header for us?  Or just downloads the headers we need?
12:19.42claymoreOkay, that answers my Q.  I was wondering if BoostThreads is in there already.
12:19.46brlcadjust downloads the headers we use
12:20.03brlcadtake a look, src/other/boost
12:20.44brlcadthere are threading headers in there now, so maybe/probably at least a subset if not the whole thing
12:21.46claymorealright neat.  I was wondering if I was going to need boost libs for iBME but it seems that brlcad already has it.  Excellent.
12:22.59brlcadthere's a configuration management issue there -- presently compiling rt^3 only requires a binary install (and the boost headers are treated private)
12:23.39brlcadso for you to use them, they either need to be installed or rt^3 build system needs to know where brlcad sources are or they need to include their own copy of (exactly) what is used
12:24.38brlcadmy feeling would be for it to *not* rely on having both source sets around, so either installing or having a separate copy
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12:25.58claymore:/  Okay, fair enough.  I figured since iBME will need the BRL-CAD source or Libs anyways, getting the boost libs from the brlcad src tree wouldn't be an issue.
12:26.24brlcadit needs the libs and headers
12:26.39brlcadwhich should all be available during install
12:28.12claymorewould having the BRL-CAD libs rely on a different copy of boost than iBME create a maintenance headache later down the road?
12:28.33brlcadthat should really help keep the two interfaces independent (so there is no C/C++ crossover) allowing the interfaces to be developed as an interface-using application (which should help shore up the interfaces being provided too)
12:28.57brlcadonly if they're incompatibly out of sync at a binary level
12:29.04claymoreyou use the term 'interface' in what context?
12:29.06brlcadmost of boost is compile-time static
12:29.35claymoretakes notes about keeping things in sync.
12:30.04brlcadwell there are the C libs, libbu, libbn, librt, etc .. that are in use by the GE and new G3D/iBME/SS (this thing is getting a lot of names) :)
12:31.29brlcadthe chance of incompatibility is pretty low though, I wouldn't worry about it -- and if you really want to make it a non-issue, we can just have an option to install the headers we used
12:32.01brlcadthe issue then will just be when rt^3 sources uses more than brlcad module uses and needs additions
12:32.01claymoreAs for the names, they will make sence when I get a chance to offload my info on ya.  I can try to do that here in irc, but the UML pics i have help wonders.  You in at a decent hour today? ;)
12:33.07brlcadI'm only referring to G3D vs iBME vs SS .. they all basically refer to the same thing and are just a label really
12:34.44claymore'just a label'.... well kinda.  I am seeing them more as elements and levels of an architecture.
12:34.54brlcadthat's having three people name pretty much the exact same concept, not a surprise that everyone has a different one
12:35.46claymorefor instance:  GeometryEngine will be the C++ library that incorporates ged, svn, and a few other things to form the core funtionality
12:36.08brlcadand iBME is where it all comes together into a graphical inteface that the user interacts with, yes? :)
12:36.45claymoreGeometryService is the runnable bin that uses the GE libs, but adds in the Session Management, Access Controls, Network link, blah blah blah blah....
12:37.02brlcadno surprises there :)
12:37.58claymoreand Integrated BrlCad Modeling Environment (iBME) is a runnable bin that has/uses a GS but adds an abstract GUI element... in this case, the first AbstractGui subclass will be g3d
12:37.58brlcadand I think that's a wonderful! separation of responsibilities btw ;)
12:38.26claymoreso yeah, its a lot of names, but that makes it sound neater and thus impresses Bosses more :)
12:38.35brlcadi.e. where it all comes together into a graphical inteface ;)
12:38.58claymoreright, you had it type before I did, but i couldn't bring myself to delete all my hard typing :P
12:39.00brlcadi'm just saying that's what g3d means/meant as well as SS too
12:39.13claymoreoh, whats SS ?
12:41.08brlcadit hints at the name that I arrived at after having many years to think of a good name that caters to the marketing aspect, documentation, community, competition, connotations, ..
12:41.17brlcadhas had a long time to think about all of this over the years
12:41.44brlcadnot that I'm stuck on using it, I'm also not willing to unveil it before it's actually needed or can be formally documented
12:42.17brlcadnaming something often has the tendancy of making people make (false) assumptions about the project that take years to recover from (RIVA anyone)
12:42.57claymoreso we should call this project Fred until a few years from now?
12:43.16claymorethinks SS stands for SuperSexy. Just admit it.
12:43.18brlcadnah, iBME is a great name too, that works
12:43.31brlcadthinks SS is super sexy, but no doesn't stand for that :)
12:44.30claymorei was trying to manhandle the acronym into iBEAM, but it ended up being nearly ebonic, so i just went with iBME and will pronounce it I-Beam.
12:44.46brlcadeven if iBME has two strong connotations (for me at least) .. BME is like EE or CE in a university context
12:44.47claymorebesides, an Ibeam icon is super easy to do :)
12:45.14brlcadBME is the shorthand for biomedical engineering
12:45.27claymoreah, didn't know that.
12:45.29brlcadso everytime I see it, that is what jumps to mind :)
12:46.08claymoreI am not stuck on it either, just you mentioned the 'integrated brlcad modeling enviornment' term once and it made sence to me.
12:46.24brlcadBRL-CAD M.E. sounds kinda kinky albeit kinda microsoftish too :)
12:46.38claymoreProject iBME untill a SS-ier name can be found
12:46.38brlcaddid I?  that's funny
12:46.51claymoreyeah, BRLCADme made me cringe.
12:46.52brlcadi do see it as an integrated modeling environment, so it does suit
12:47.35brlcadno matter what we call it, the binary will (finally) probably just be called 'brlcad' when it's worthy to have that name
12:47.49brlcadsince that is what 99% of most new users expect
12:48.25brlcadbut not before it's ready .. till then it can have code name(s)
12:48.44claymoredamn them all, break the mold!  Fred is the new BRLCAD so they just need to deal with it.
12:48.50brlcadeven ss wasn't meant to be the command line, that's just a different expansion of the full title
12:49.27claymoreSS has Nazi Connotations to me ;)
12:49.34brlcadsomething that really should cater exactly to what we do and the ways geometry is managed
12:49.53brlcadthat's why it's not the actual name, just my version of "fred" since I've not said what it is :)
12:50.12brlcadthough I would have thought SS had navy connotations to you :)
12:50.44claymoreSSN baby!  SS = ww2, ssn = nuklar ;)
12:51.05brlcadHappy Sailing on the SS BRL-CAD
12:51.22claymoreshould we have it crash after a '3 hour tour' ?
12:52.04brlcadand make them reboot
12:52.11brlcadwonders what CVN stands for
12:52.31claymoreCarrier Vessel Nuclear
12:52.42claymore;)
12:52.53brlcadah
12:53.13claymoreaka CVN-65 = USS Enterprize, aka Mobile Cherynobl
12:53.43brlcadnotes that you shouldn't need/use html markup on the wiki outside of style decls on tables, you can use " " and/or newlines in place of br's
12:54.44brlcadstops chattering so he *can* make it in at a decent time for once
12:55.10claymoredidn't know that a line starting with whitespace could be used as a newline.  Defaulted on what I knew:)
12:55.19claymorebrlcad's wiki-fu is strong.
12:57.14claymorehave a safe trip.
12:57.56claymoreoh, and in media wiki, multiple newlines are truncated to just one.  :/
13:05.24mafmdamn brlcad
13:05.31mafmyou talk too much!
13:05.41mafmnow I have to read all the log... :P
13:05.50claymoresneaks out of sight.
13:05.58mafmclaymore: OGRE & Co. at src/other
13:06.42claymoreexcellent, thanks mafm!
13:07.03claymoremafm:  Do you have documentation on your gui design?
13:10.05mafmnot proper documentation, no
13:10.26mafmit's a kind of prototype
13:11.24mafmin src/other I put: OGRE (3D rendering only), OIS (input libs), Mocha (helper library for RBGui), RBGui
13:11.34claymoredid you architect your GUI so that it consists of a single 'root' object?
13:11.51brlcadthinks it's a successful prototype, start at least .. the only part I'm still not convinced is doing us anything useful is rbgui
13:12.15brlcadclaymore: find main() go from there ;)
13:12.23mafmRBGui stalled at this point maybe not :|
13:12.42mafmit'll begin to be a maintainance issue
13:12.47brlcadthere was a great poster at siggraph for a new gui toolkit
13:12.55mafmbut I don't know if there are new alternatives yet
13:13.32brlcaddone by the guy that worked on G3D (no, the 'other' G3D) ironically :)
13:13.43mafmclaymore: I created a set of managers, so to speak, taking care of camera modes, creating and acessing windows, etc
13:14.17mafmso in example there's the camera manager, and classes for camera/input modes
13:14.33CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33185 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/docs/BME.eap: (log message trimmed)
13:14.33CIA-62BRL-CAD: Continuing Architecture Work (GeometryService Namespace):
13:14.33CIA-62BRL-CAD: 1) Created AccessManager Class stub. Will provide access controls for Sessions.
13:14.33CIA-62BRL-CAD: 2) Architected SessionManager and Session classes: Will provide persistence information for remote and local connections to the GeometryService.
13:14.34mafmthe manager takes care of switching between modes and similar tasks
13:14.36CIA-62BRL-CAD: 3) Architected CommunicationsManager and AbstractPortal: Provides
13:14.38CIA-62BRL-CAD: interconnectivity via multiple means. AbstractPortal is a purely virtual base
13:14.40CIA-62BRL-CAD: class that will provide/mandate the essential attributes and operations required
13:16.20claymoremafm:  so it sounds like it would be relatively easy to aggregate all those managers in to a single, simple, highlevel G3D object?
13:16.37brlcadalso probably worth mentioning that it's presently hooked directly into libged since GS nor GE were ready, but that hooking those in are next step
13:17.28brlcadclaymore: your java teachings are starting to show :)
13:17.37brlcads/teachings/learnings/
13:17.47mafmclaymore: well, there's the Application class, I think that it's a kind of root object, now that I think of it
13:18.15claymorenah, not java teachings :P
13:18.19mafmbecause it takes care of initializing the graphics, has functions to quit, etc?
13:18.43claymoreBasic OO abstraction techniques :(
13:19.49claymoremafm:  I ask because in the architecture I am working up, there is a GUI object that is purely virtual, ment to be either a full abstract Base class or an Interface to implement, that all gui's coded for iBME will need to adhere to.
13:20.40claymoremafm:  that way, it would be very easy to document the GUI API and thus, make it easy for someone to write their own GUI.
13:21.03mafmI guess that it could be adapted to work that way
13:21.21brlcadthe tendency to organize everything into single-rooted hierarchies is often a tendency found with 'pure' OO design (which you find a lot of in Java) -- nothing wrong with it, just slightly different perspective as C++ is rarely implemented pure (for various reasons)
13:22.36claymoremafm:  SO if it would be possible to seggregate the GUI aspects from the application aspects of g3d, then it would be easy to abstract the trival stuff (aka application stuff) away from your GUI, thus making everything a bit more clean and streamlined.
13:23.10mafmI think that all Gui-like stuff stays in Gui-named files and classes
13:23.14claymorebrlcad:  Sure is... BUT thats not what I am doing :P  so leave me alone with your Java slander!
13:23.27claymoremafm:  Then it already is segregated :)
13:23.31brlcadheh
13:23.45mafmit was done that way, apart from the general idea of separating view and logic, because of the uncertainties of RBGui
13:24.02mafmAlso I think that it's not very dependent of OGRE
13:24.15claymorewhat is not very dependant on ogre?
13:24.20mafmthe application
13:24.33brlcadisn't slander, I'm actually quite fond of Java actually .. for a whole variety of uses and applications, it solves a lot of problems you have to fight with other languages
13:24.55mafmthat is, doesn't relay on anything of OGRE besides launching it
13:24.55claymoremafm:  I need to take a look at your code ;)
13:25.26mafmThe way to handle commands, console history and similar functionalities implemented, are independent
13:25.39mafmor mostly, I think
13:25.59claymorebrlcad;  Just teasing you a bit :)
13:26.10claymoreI like Java quite a bit.
13:26.44brlcadknows :)
13:26.50claymorebut it has/doesn't have a few things that piss me off.  Multiple inheritence being one of them....
13:27.01mafmI like Java as a language, not java as a running thing :D
13:27.18claymoremafm:  Sounds like you dun did it smart.  
13:28.34claymorebrlcad:  So much for 'stopping chattering' eh?  :P
13:28.58brlcadnot really, I got dressed and shaved and groomed all the while :)
13:29.22brlcadsocks...where be those things...
13:29.27mafm:D
13:31.02mafmWhat Java has that bothers me a lot is integrated stuff in core libs like sockets, GUIs, threads... it's so easy to bootstrap simple applications!
13:31.39claymorewhy does that bother you?
13:31.49claymorethats a *feature* ;)
13:31.52mafmalso, for ( e: coll ) loops are niiiice
13:31.56mafmbothers me in C++
13:32.09mafmWhat Java has and not C++
13:32.38CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33186 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/docs/iBME_14NOV08_0800.png: Graphical View of the current iBME architecture.
13:32.44mafm's favourite C++0x feature will be "auto" things, most probably
13:33.07brlcadc++ is getting lots of great new additions (threads, java-style loops, automatic typing) soon
13:33.11brlcadyeah
13:33.14mafmno insane syntax for iterators anymore :)
13:33.54brlcadwas excited to read through some of the SC22 that was resolved last month
13:33.58mafmwell, Boost makes a good job for things like threads, but it's got a bit too late to the party I think
13:34.18mafmand in example the network/socket lib, which was a GSoC project this year
13:34.30brlcadyeah, networking will be sorely missing
13:34.51brlcadthey did at least agree on some basic threading intrinsics though.. that was going to get left out
13:34.55brlcadhttp://www.open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/
13:35.29brlcadstd::thread ftw
13:36.32CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33187 10/rt^3/trunk/src/coreInterface/ (ConstDatabase.cpp Object.cpp): replaced some deprecated defines
13:36.35brlcader, s/SC22/SC22 disagreements!/
13:36.43mafmother than those differences in basic libraries, I tend to program similarly in both languages I think
13:38.14mafmhopefully C++0x will be out in 2009, otherwise the very nickname will be confusing :D
13:38.18claymoremafm:  really?  interesting.  One of the biggest PITA's I ran into in java was the whole 'El Camino' thing of Multiple Inheritence.  If you want to use MI in java, then at least ONE of the super classes has to be 100% virtual/abstract.... and thats abnoxious!
13:39.02mafmI don't use MI a lot, but well, my java experience is mostly with smallish projects
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13:39.10brlcadclaymore: there's a big portion that also needs to get integrated (in a way that they can continue to work on it too, collaboration is a good thing) .. src/coreInterface was pretty much designed as the start of the GE
13:41.04brlcadthat's some momentum that really would hate to just loose or ignore and they've got it already working for I/O and some set of operations
13:43.21brlcadby the way, if you guys don't know about it already .. http://stackoverflow.com/  <-- great site for getting answers to coding/design/practice questions or even for passively learning if you don't know about it already
13:43.43brlcadis repeating himself, so he hits the road, so he hits the road
13:43.45claymorebrlcad:  Thats on the todo list ;)  I have seen some emails and had conversations recently that have clued me into the need for some pretty pictures and documentation to show progress ;)
13:45.18brlcadclaymore: I'm mostly saying it needs to be a two-way collaboration, not just one-way 'here is how this idea was designed, is better, is different, etc'  (not to imply that you were or weren't doing that)
13:46.07brlcadhe's done a lot of good work there, it should be integrated in a way they're good with too so they can keep using it and contributing
13:46.40claymoreIts one bigass, ginormous learning experience for me :)  As I learn exactly what is *in* rt^3/src already, I can add/append/alter etc.
13:46.48brlcadhe documented some of it on the wiki already too
13:47.03claymoreBut I will talk PM stuff with ya when you get here :)
13:47.11claymoreon the wiki eh?  aye aye.
13:47.12brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Developer_Documents
13:47.40brlcadcore C++ interface
13:48.53claymorerighto, thanks for the link.
14:03.41CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33188 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/get_type.c: Fleshed out get_type
14:04.07*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
14:07.12*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:08.49claymoreGreetings Daniel!  Did you get my SourceForge email?
14:09.20``Erikheh "mobile chernobyl", hadn't heard that one before
14:09.37``Erikss... screenshot? secret service? :D
14:10.04claymoreerik:  The 'Prize' is an ELT's nightmare (Engineering Lab Tech,aka water chem guys)
14:10.19d_rossbergclaymore: that's why i'm here :)
14:10.40claymoreerik:  hence the 'Prize' and 'Mobile Cherynobl' nicknames :)
14:11.05claymored: Excellent.  I just started reading through your code and wiki entries.
14:11.09clock_mobile chernobyl?
14:11.24clock_That recommends me since yesterday evening I have a wonderful russian oscilloscope at home
14:11.30d_rossbergcurrently i'm working on a C++ inteface "as i need it"
14:11.36clock_16.5kg, 150W, 100 MHz
14:12.11clock_recommends -> reminds
14:12.19``Erikneat, old crt/analog dealie?
14:12.22clock_yes
14:12.37clock_This one http://rw6ase.narod.ru/s/s/s1_99_.jpg
14:12.38claymored: If i read your docs correctly, you are striving to attain a completely self suffiecient C++ Brlcad library...right?
14:12.44CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33189 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/grid.c: Added code to return help string if no args were specified.
14:13.00*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
14:13.13d_rossbergclaymore: right
14:13.16``Erikother than the letters being all wrong, looks quite similar to what I used in highschool and college
14:13.32mafmgoing home earlier today, see you!
14:13.43claymored: Are you familiar with the work on 'ged' that is being done in brlcad currently?
14:13.45``Erik(or secondary school and university for those who use that terminology)
14:13.51clock_``Erik: it's not theyre wrong it's called CYRILLIC! :)
14:14.01``Erik:D
14:14.10clock_Mine has a split screen zoom function!
14:14.14d_rossbergit should be independent from the implementation of the kernel ...
14:14.29d_rossbergi know what ged is for
14:14.37``ErikI don't care of they're ceramic or silkscreen or marker, they're backwards! it's like a first grader made it! :> *duck* *run*
14:14.46claymoreerik : lol
14:14.58clock_L0lz!!111
14:15.18clock_Actually I thought for a long time the scope is called C1-99
14:15.33clock_But it's actually called S1-99 because C is S in Russian alphabet
14:15.43claymored: alright cool.  Well, it seems that your initiative and ged go hand in hand, unless I read thngs wrong, since ged is supposed to wrap up ALL of mged's current functionality.
14:15.47clock_What can S stand for?
14:16.06clock_Scope?
14:16.17clock_Superb?
14:16.23clock_Soviet?
14:16.48claymored: So, the approach I was looking at was to simply write a C++ class called GED and then just wrap all of GED functionality in function calls.
14:17.07clock_let's fuse BRL-CAD and gEDA together
14:17.09``Erikgiven that russian language has no real historic heritage tracing back to teutonic or romance languages to my knowledge, I wouldn't expect to see that kinda similarity to engrish
14:17.19clock_make a universal circuit and 3D design tool called mgEDA
14:17.33``Erikunless they hijacked the german word for scope for that specific purpose *shrug* :)
14:17.43claymored: Are you taking a different approach?
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14:20.42d_rossbergclaymore: i don't like ged's parameters
14:21.08d_rossbergthis is something for a high level inteface as a gui or shell
14:21.19CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33190 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/metaball.c: stack save the thoughts in progress, have other stuff to do first
14:21.39d_rossbergbut i wouldn't use argc/argv on system level
14:22.40d_rossbergi'm looking for something closer to the kernel
14:22.44claymored: Agreed, I don't particularly like that interface either.
14:23.02claymored: 'kernel'  of what... the OS?
14:23.18d_rossbergno, BRL-CAD's kernel
14:23.25d_rossberg(librt)
14:23.27claymored: ah, I see now.
14:23.37``Erikand libged, now
14:23.48claymoreponders.
14:24.37d_rossberglibged is an interface to a shell build on librt (mainly)
14:25.18claymored: I am wondering if establishing a OO system that sits on top of libged but still coming to a focalpoint of a 'master' GED object would solve both our needs.
14:26.47``Eriksurposedly, librt is supposed to evolve to holding and interrogating (viewing crud as immutable) where libged will be the editing kernel, no? :) given that it's a modeler and not a model viewer, I'd believe that librt/libged construct the kernel
14:26.57``Erik*shrug* I need more tea, at least this cough is dying down
14:27.20claymoreHrm, I was of the mind that libged was closer to an API that involved ALL of the brlcad libs...
14:27.29d_rossbergi would like to see something in between librt and libged
14:28.03d_rossbergi.e. implementing libged's functionality but with "real" parameters
14:28.26d_rossbergmaybe with the help of an OO layer
14:28.52``Erik#!~@! stupid fop crap, popping java crap off and stealing window focus
14:29.19d_rossberghowever, i would recommend to develop the C++ inteface independently from ged at the moment
14:29.35claymored: righto. I think we are speaking the same thing now.  By using the term 'implementing' are you talking about re-writing libged's functionality, or putting an OO layer (with *real* parameters) that utilizes libged's existing code?
14:30.04``Erikoh wow, it's all argv/argc crap (I hadn't looked at libged before)
14:30.27claymoreits not crap, just not the way I would like it :)
14:30.46claymorebesides, its the first step towards a more unified codebase :)
14:31.11d_rossbergat the moment i'm working on a layer right on top of librt's functionality
14:31.26d_rossbergi.e. ged's functionality will not be included
14:31.27``Erikyeh, but I grok herr dannies argument now :)
14:33.51claymoreHrm, I will need to study libged and see just how comprehensive its coverage of the underlying libraries is...
14:34.46``ErikI think I have an idea of exactly what it is, how it's migrating and why... but if I tried to state it, I'd be wrong, I'm sure :D
14:35.13claymoreI dunno if making a different API to the libs will be worth the duplication of effort.... :/
14:35.55claymoreErik:  go for it.  if you know you are already wrong then you shouldn't be surprized nor hurt if its pointed out that you are :D
14:36.43d_rossberglibged came from mged, now it's an independent shell-like interface to BRL-CAD
14:37.25d_rossbergthis is really nice, but it's not applicable for all applications
14:38.07``Erikheh, aight, mged has a simple capture widget which cranks things through the tcl engine and has a bunch of wrappers for C things exposed to the interpreter FFI style, so'z the 'export to tcl' stuff is being wholesale lifted and moved, libged is looking like a brlcad/tcl ffi lib at the moment
14:38.39``Erikif you write in tcl, swank... but in C, you have to build things up to look like the tcl interpreter before using it
14:39.07``Erikdon't quote me, boy, I ain't said nothin' :)
14:39.27claymoretakes a screenshot.
14:39.43clock_claymore: Polroid
14:40.39``Erikmocks up a display of claymore making socially unacceptable statements and takes a screenshot (or polaroid) :D hardly proof
14:41.47clock_can you give an example of a socially acceptable statement? :)
14:42.18claymored:  Cool.  thanks for the info.  I will need to chat with a few people before making the descision to build a new interface directly on top of the libs or building one ontop of libged.  I think it will come down to a shortterm longterm tradeoff.
14:42.47``Erik60 eco, time for prings on that astro O.o
14:44.02claymoreerik Nice :)  My las wave of dreads should be finishing soon and I will have completed the removal of ft's from all or my bases... that gives me 53K fts in my mobile... once I get all the FCs to move them all :/
14:47.00d_rossbergclaymore: do you have an idea how an interface on top of libged will look like? (TCL?)
14:47.57d_rossbergon the other side: i try to design the C++ interface really fast, e.g. no unnecessary malloc or new
14:48.41d_rossberg(this is the reason for the odd looking callbacks in the Get methods)
14:49.20claymored: for the purposes of the iBME/GS, the interface to libged would be completely OO, with as many *real* parameters as would make sence.
14:49.53claymored: so you are trying to do everything on the stack?
14:50.08d_rossbergas much as possible
14:50.37claymored: cool.  What size data files are you working with? If you don't mind me asking...
14:52.31d_rossbergthe files on my computer aren't so big, 20MB max
14:53.03claymored: no issue loading those completely into stack space?
14:55.21d_rossbergat the the moment: no; however the class can be changed to work with a file or it could be created a new class derived from the existing ones which works with a file
14:55.32d_rossbergit is all in development :)
14:56.04d_rossbergthe in-memory database was a test for me too
14:56.13d_rossbergi've never used it before
14:57.51claymored: sweet.  FWIW, i would love to ultimately have a pure 00 layer ontop of the libs, but time contraints may make me impliment an 00 layer ontop of libged initially :/
14:58.14d_rossbergthe point in my applications is the ray-trace: it has to be fast
15:00.21claymored: understood.  Ultimately, in the iBME/GS, it will be a priority also.
15:00.24``Erikshould have a titan in the queue in about a week O.O
15:00.46claymoreawesomeness.  They take *forever*  to build :(
15:01.50d_rossbergi try to build a basis where it is easy to add a new interface to a feature or primitive
15:02.26claymored: I like your approach thus far and can definetly see the potential for expansion.
15:03.28d_rossberghaving this it could be a task in next years GSoC to add some features to this interface (for example)
15:03.53claymored: I just need to feelout how *firm* some of my deadlines are :)
15:04.26claymored: so you can currently load a database file without any touble?
15:05.18d_rossbergyes
15:05.51d_rossbergand change the database's title and the object's names
15:06.11d_rossberg+ ray-trace etc.
15:09.02claymoreExcellent thanks :)
15:09.25clock_xray-trrace
15:10.49*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
16:27.08louipcbrlcad: I got an interesting error when building 7.14.0
16:27.19louipcbrlcad: looks like you left your mark in there :D http://louipc.yi.org/brlcad/brlcad-7.14.0-build-error
16:46.58*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
18:23.13``Erikgarth marenghi's darkplace
18:31.59CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33191 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/docs/BME.eap: Continuing Architecture Work: Refactored AbstractResource and Subclasses.
18:56.50*** join/#brlcad archivist_emc (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
18:57.03*** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
19:19.46brlcadclaymore: tab-completion (reading backlog d:'s) is nice for others too so your messages are hilighted to their attention ;)
19:28.02brlcadlouipc: not too surprising, I leave dents all over the place ;)
19:28.17brlcadthat url correct though?
19:28.27brlcadI get no server there
19:28.46brlcadah, it's blocked, I got it now
19:29.38brlcadlouipc: bah .. yeah, that sucks.. tcl is annoying embedding full paths somewhere -- you have to rerun autogen.sh and configure to clear them out
19:45.10CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33192 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/docs/ (4 files): Image generation to support documentation effort at http://brlcad.org/wiki/IBME_Main
19:56.21*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-56-87-140.dclient.hispeed.ch)
21:46.39*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14F065.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:01.19*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
22:26.28*** join/#brlcad smurfette (i=Pandora@c-69-247-220-102.hsd1.mo.comcast.net)
22:26.43smurfettehttp://forums.beyond.ca/st/240856/i-do-not-have-any-money-so-am-sending-you-this-drawing-i-did-of-a-spider-instead
22:26.43smurfette<PROTECTED>
22:26.47smurfetteoops ;P
22:27.06smurfettehttp://forums.beyond.ca/st/240856/i-do-not-have-any-money-so-am-sending-you-this-drawing-i-did-of-a-spider-instead-/
22:27.10smurfettethere :P  my bad
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081115

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081115

01:55.23*** join/#brlcad cad30 (n=4bba7587@bz.bzflag.bz)
02:38.12starseekerooo, NSA history
02:38.31starseekerloves it when more interesting public domain stuff appears
02:40.12starseekerchuckles evilly at the idea of uploading scanned historical army stuff from National Archives onto bz, assuming he can find it :-)
02:54.05``Erikheh
02:54.34``Erikwe've been challenged for form-1's on material that was public release before form-1's existed
02:54.58``Erikand have damaged historical sites to comply with new directives. :(
02:56.29``Eriklike having to remove bldg or rm # if both are in the same area... cuz, y'know, if some arbitrary (but not published) building 403 exists, that's ok, if there's a room 101 somewhere, that's ok... but the fact that there is a bld 403 that has a room 101, woops, then the tarrst win
02:56.53``Erikexcuse the http pun
03:11.28starseekerheh
03:11.51starseekerDrool...:  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=4094706&CATLN=6&FullDetails=False
03:12.17starseekerhttp://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=4959163&CATLN=6&Highlight=%2CMARK%2CIV&accessmethod=0
03:13.37starseekerNow, how to get my grubby little hands on the tank plans...
03:15.31``Eriktalk to our libraries
03:15.34``Eriklibrarians
03:15.48``Erikthey can work miracles and are excited when someone notices them
03:16.16``Erikback door into 330, they'll be sitting on the right and confused that someone walked in
03:16.18``Erik:D
03:18.22starseekerheh - I might just try it
03:18.34starseekernot chance I can get to the UK to try in person
03:19.08starseekerer no chance
03:20.18starseekerIf I ask for the tank stuff it's modeling related :-)
03:22.27starseekerREALLY wishes they would be more specific about what's in the doggone collection - asking for copies of the "plans of British Tanks" part would probably mean requesting a bookshelf full of stuff
03:22.48starseekerand the sad part is it's STILL a lot better than the National Archives
03:22.50starseekerin the US
03:23.47archivistbritish archives rule :)
03:24.19starseekerI stuck in a search for tanks and actually got immediately to relevant tank related records
03:24.22starseekerabout fainted
03:24.34archivisthides his nick in case he gets found out
03:24.37starseekerheh
03:24.47starseekerdo you work there?
03:25.04archivistI volunteer in a local archive
03:25.08starseekerAh
03:25.43starseekerknows exactly why it's hard to find stuff - indexing it all is probably the work of a hundred lifetimes (not factoring shortened lifespans due to boredom)
03:25.45archivistone day all brit archives will be available online
03:26.01``Erikum, ww1 UK stuff may be obtainable, but that'd get involved with foreign companies and gov'ts, atm
03:26.08archivistyup Im doing the database bit for ours
03:26.10``Erikand the paperwork gets a wee bit trickier
03:26.33starseeker``Erik:  In other words, bad idea?
03:26.38``Erik(assuming it's not already open source (in the gov't sense))
03:26.42starseekerarchivist: cool!
03:27.05archivistI want details of the first tank experiments (Major Baguley worked on it)
03:27.05``Erikum, wouldn't say that, but if you have interest in going there, grok that it bumps the beaurocracy up an order of magnitude or more
03:27.14starseeker``Erik:  If I'm parsing this correctly, the collection is labeled public records and as a result (by now) it should be clear
03:27.37``Erikheh, "uh uh uh, can't say it's an armored vehicle, uh, lets call it, uh, a water mover! a tank, y'know, for water!"
03:27.48starseekerpretty much :-)
03:28.37``Erik'cept once this monstrosity was slowly clanking over trenches with small ship cannons and machineguns blasting, uh, cover was blown... name stuck, though
03:28.42starseeker``Erik:  paperwork as in "involve more people and answer more questions about why the **** I'm wanting design drawings for a nearly hundered year old piece of junk" or just "more pieces of paper to fill out"?
03:28.54archivistfirst tank tests were at a car company in the local town (Burton)
03:29.08starseekerarchivist:  Oh, so it's local history for you?
03:29.12``Erikjust more pieces of paper
03:29.13archivistyes
03:29.19starseekerAWESOME :-)
03:29.26archivistI want moooore
03:29.38archivistIm doing a book on the car company
03:29.57starseekerThe national archives might have some of that
03:30.27``Eriknow if the uk were to, y'know, just OS that info in the spirit of remembering important history, problem solved... but that takes effort with no 'immediate and obvious' benefit for the idjits
03:30.31starseeker``Erik:  That's OK.  I just have visions of trying to explain who's going to care about a CAD model of the museum's Mark IV :-)
03:30.36``Erikand, uh, sorry, the US isn't the only country with idjits
03:30.36archivistwell the army part is at a University that I need to get at
03:31.09archivistI have two pictures so far
03:31.10starseekerarchivist:  that can be entertaining
03:31.30starseeker``Erik:  You looking at the 30 year FOI turnaround notation?
03:32.15``Erikcan't do that, company confidential is not suspect to FOIA
03:33.05starseekerno, I ment on the website
03:33.26starseekerthinks all this stuff is just public record in UK, no restrictions
03:33.33starseekerjust no one bothered to scan it
03:33.41archivistyet
03:33.47starseekeror if they did, they put it in books and made $$ selling them
03:34.00starseekerarchivist: :-)
03:34.17``Erikhrm, does it have to be a british citizen to request information? is there a 'distribution fee'?
03:34.25archivistBullock Creeping Grip was brought over here
03:34.27starseekertries to find out
03:35.37archivistwe have to identify to get stuff at major archive
03:36.21starseekerwonder how they react to tourists
03:36.25archivistmy public records card is out of date now
03:37.07``Erik"public records card" already makes things sound far more complex :D
03:37.16archivist:)
03:37.32``Erikonce data in the US goes open source, it's out there... I don't know if citizenship is even looked at for a FOIA letter
03:38.01archivistfirst major scanning effort the PRO has done is census records
03:38.23starseeker``Erik:  The US national archives issue IDs too for people wanting access to certain stuff
03:38.43archivistthen the bar stewards charge on the intarwebs for copies
03:39.55archivistcameras are banned in some archives but they dont care in others
03:40.23``Erik'k, I d'no about national archives, foia shtuff is supposedly distribution unlimited (unless I misunderstand), but uhm, "reproduction" fees are common
03:40.48starseekerUm - they want ID to prove identify and address - doesn't seem to say if proving an overseas address counts
03:41.53``Erik(sorry, not glued to the convo, got punker being ... insane)
03:41.54archivistwhich tank are you after
03:42.09``Erikbritish MK-IV from ww1
03:42.34``Erikhttp://www.peachmountain.com/5Star/US_Army_Ordnance_Museum_Mark_IV_tank.aspx
03:43.58archivistI want details of the embarrassing fail pre mark I
03:43.58starseekerHmm - looks like for anything under Crown Copyright you need permission from the Image Library
03:44.07starseekerLittle Whillie or whatever it was?
03:44.38starseekerOh that's cute - so the records themselves may not be restricted but what you can do with them is per the controllers of the records
03:44.51starseekeror rather, what you can do with copies
03:44.54archivistno, that is known as the first but there was an earlier experimental one
03:45.25archivistmore Bullock than tank
03:46.21archivistA few were relieved of their duties over it as far as I can see
03:47.47starseekerjeez - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/imagelibrary/price.htm
03:48.56``Erikayup, reproduction fees
03:49.04``Erikdon't worry, the us gov't does it, too...
03:49.59``ErikI mean, ya gotta pay for internet access to certain classes of laws
03:50.02``Erikeh? O.o
03:50.18archivistI need to cough up for the two pics I want to use
03:50.19starseekerThis isn't just reproduction fees - it looks to be perminent usage restrictions
03:50.38``Erikcourt cases always have reproduction fees, cd's full of court case results cost thousands of dollars with a 'no redistribution' clause
03:50.47archivistI believe one needs to negotiate
03:51.19starseeker``Erik:  Those restrictions are usually due to the commercial company who packages the court cases and the legality of them is questionable
03:51.30``Erik(they call it a 'reproduction fee', but it's really a license and you're bound by copyright law)
03:51.59starseeker``Erik:  check public.resource.org
03:52.12``Erikif that were the case, I'm sure alturists would've put them out public... there was a slashdot article about teh dude in cali suing to have legal statue made freely avaialble not long ago
03:52.18starseekerreproduction fee means you pay to copy it and you're done
03:52.34``Erikand cali claiming that the law is protected under copyright and subject to license and fees
03:52.44starseeker``Erik:  The odds are they're going to lose that one
03:52.49starseekerthe state I mean
03:53.04``Erikyeah, ... that's what it's supposed to mean, but they CALL it reproduction fee, and have all sorts of copyright constraint on it (cuz if they called it license, they'd get in trouble)
03:53.30starseekeror, maybe it's more subtle - state goverments might be able to assert copyright, but the Federal government doesn't except on stuff that's had copyright assigned to it
03:54.50starseeker``Erik:  I think this is it:  http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/293/293.F3d.791.99-40632.html
03:55.06starseekerarchivist:  Do they negociate for unrestricted use?
03:55.13starseekerrather doubts it
03:55.22starseekereven if they did, it'd probably cost a mint
03:58.59starseekerThen there's probably no point in requesting the docs - the point was to have available source materials available online as part of the documentation of (and opportunity for students to follow along with) the modeling process
03:59.04archivistdunno have not tried yet
03:59.46starseekerEven incorporate them into some hypothetical published "Modeling with BRL-CAD" book or some such
04:01.01starseekerwonders if he can get someone, somehow, to scan the MarkVIII and make a good point cloud...
04:03.39starseekeris saddened by the restritions on the UK archives
04:07.09starseekerarchivist:  Let us know how it goes when you have to deal with them
04:07.11archivistah found look here http://www.kcl.ac.uk/lhcma/cats/stern/st30-01.shtml were the mil stuff is
04:08.21archivistref STERN: 1/3/1 1915 Jun  see burton upon trent, the real no one!
04:08.52starseekerawesomeness
04:09.10archivistthats what I have to go and look at and beg
04:09.11starseekerwhat are the usage restrictions on those records?
04:09.18archivistno idea
04:10.05archivistjust know I found a few months ago on a google search, just repeated the search now
04:10.18starseekerthat's cool
04:10.55archivistresearch takes a "while"
04:11.00starseekernods
04:13.03archivistanother guy has written up the company covering only the railway equipment, Im doing the rest and anything else car/motorbike related in Burton
04:17.45starseekerSweet
04:18.10starseekeris getting REALLY confused now: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/legal/pdf/copyright_full.pdf
04:20.45archivistthey may conveniantly ignore the age of the docs, as they are out of copyright
04:21.09starseekerThese two parts are getting me:
04:21.12starseekerWhile no Crown copyright royalty fees will be levied for the use of unpublished Crown copyright material among the records, the custodians of the records remain at liberty to levy supply fees where appropriate (see section 8).
04:21.34starseeker8.2 TNA Image Library supplies copies for use in publications and for commercial purposes. Permission for their reproduction must be obtained from the Image Library (see 12.2), which may charge a fee. This permission and reproduction fee are distinct from any permission which may be required from a copyright owner, who may also charge a fee. For the use of Crown copyright works see section 6; for other copyright works see section 9.
04:22.04starseekerIs that just for reproductions THEY make?
04:22.20starseekeri.e. if you go in with a camera yourself and make your own copies you're good?
04:24.30archivistyes but you wont get though the door with a camera in that sort of archive after moneyz
04:24.56archivistyou go in on their terms :(((
04:25.19archivistnasty trick
04:25.49archivistso they could sue under contract not copyright
04:30.44starseekerah - I see it now:  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/photopolicy.pdf
04:32.22starseekerBoy they make sure to slam all the doors don't they
04:33.09archivistyup Lichfield archive allows that, I go in and a few hundred pics and type up at my leisure
04:35.21archivistI shall give the typed info back later, then they can add it to the online search for the archive
04:36.09starseekerOK, so they really do have the power to negociate access terms - they MIGHT conceivably allow unlimited use terms, although practically speaking they won't
04:36.27starseekerarchivist:  that's a good way to go
04:36.40starseekerand a powerful argument for letting people do what they want with historical data
04:36.46archivist:)
04:36.59starseekernot that the UK national archives are likely to be impressed
04:37.28archivistnational no, but the locals are more helpful
04:43.49archivistescapes home as its 4:45 AM
04:48.29Ralithhehe
04:50.41starseeker?
04:50.51Ralith[20:43:57] * archivist escapes home as its 4:45 AM
04:50.55starseekerah :-)
04:51.08starseekerscowls at the National Archives UK
05:13.59starseekerneeds to get ahold of this: http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=AD0415129
05:14.13starseekerlooks like I'll bug the library on Monday after all
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13:26.21archiviststarseeker, when you get models from picture I will get interested :)
14:04.41starseekersneakily wonders if the US National archives might have copies of some of the earlier british tank info as part of the workup for the Mark VIII program
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14:39.55brlcadyawns
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16:00.17starseekerbrlcad:  So how was the movie?
16:29.36starseekerHrm. http://www.landships.freeservers.com/jpegs/newpics_05_2005/mk4_cutout.JPG
16:30.34starseekerOr, actually more useful dimensionally:  http://www.landships.freeservers.com/jpegs/mk4_interior_plan.JPG
16:47.27archivistnotes we had comfy bench seats long before 50's v8 yank cars :)
16:49.02brlcadstarseeker: it was pretty good, a follow-on to the first one though so you have to watch them in order
16:49.28brlcada few of the action scenes were cut a bit too quickly, but otherwise it was pretty good
16:49.36brlcadnot as good as casino, but still goo
16:49.38brlcadgood
17:14.24starseekerafter a morning of stubborn hammering at the US national archives site, I think I might have found a few starting points
17:14.57starseekerbrlcad:  Any problem if I put in some extra hours tomorrow and during the week so I can run down to College Park on Friday?
17:15.51yukonbobmorning, cadheads
17:15.56starseekermorning
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21:44.10starseekerjots notes on bugs
21:46.24``Erikwow, you must have a tiny little pen
21:46.48starseekerthe doggone suckers wiggle too
21:47.18``Erik<-- still in awe at the notion of people writing on rice
21:47.24starseeker``Erik:  How hard would it be to get the OK to photograph the Liberty tank?
21:48.05``Erikliberty tank? the spider/skeleton one, or what?
21:48.18starseekerno, not at the ordinance museum
21:48.22starseekerover behind the gate
21:48.54``Erikum, anyone with a valid photo pass can take a picture of it using a gov't camera, then it's a normal form-1
21:50.12``ErikI think there're a couple people in the office and a camera in one, I'd imagine the difficult part would be finding a viable reason to exactly mark A on the form-a
21:50.14``Erikform-1
21:50.25``Erikfor,uh, reasons we can discuss on monday
21:50.26``Erik:)
21:50.53``Erikdon't bother bringing your personal camera, it cannot be used
21:51.00starseekerI know
21:51.32starseeker``Erik:  does difficult ~=  impossible?
21:51.42``ErikI don't think so
21:52.16``Erik(assuming you mean 'roughly equal to', not 'congruent' or 'set to the inverse')
21:52.16``Erik:D
21:52.31``Erikor a horrible perl monstrosity *shudder*
21:52.46``Erik$_ ~= s/ohmygodmybrainismelting/;
21:52.53starseekeryes roughly equal to
21:53.29starseekerdoesn't want to step into quicksand, but unlike the Mark IV the Liberty does have US documentation that is public domain
21:53.51starseekerthat I can get at
21:53.52archivistbleh if out doors just use the google map pics
21:53.55``Erikthe obvious issues are going to be "why" and "how does this benefit us?"
21:54.15``Erikarchivist: our entire compound is insanely blurred in google maps and google earth
21:54.22archivistaw
21:54.35``Erikthe entire post, even, including the parts that are publically available and even have location pics
21:54.47starseeker``Erik:  Isn't that the issue with ANY form1 or are photos special?
21:55.13``Erikthere're 3 irl photos of the museum and the museum is still a big blur
21:55.21starseekerheh
21:55.37``Erikum, any form-1, but we produce mountains of text, and images are sometimes used to support text... small minds, etc, ...
21:56.12alex_jonithis one? http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/24478
21:56.31starseeker``Erik:  If I do what I want to with them, they WILL support text
21:56.53``Erikok, then collect the photographs and treat them as fouo for now, it's all good
21:57.00starseekerright
21:57.09``Erikthat does look like a male mark
21:57.49``Erikif you have someone with a camera pass, grab the one from ed's office and go :) it may be wise to not wear baggy clothing and have your identification obvious on a lanyard
21:57.50starseekerthat's actually why that particular tank is interesting - because I have documentation of some of the guts that I know is public domain, I can actually do a model as opposed to just a surface gloss
21:58.09starseeker``Erik: right
21:58.29starseekernever did quite understand why that particular bad boy wasn't at the museum to begin with...
21:59.13starseekerwould really prefer to get a point cloud too and have all three types of info on one source, but that would involve convincing Lee it's worthwhile
21:59.15``ErikI'd kinda like to see our t62 model pushed for OS, or at least the pickup truck... if someone grabbed a used m35 and updated the demo model with a high def version, that'd be awesome
21:59.31starseekersuspects picking up the tank and moving it might be simpler...
21:59.54``Erikheh, it'd probably crumble
22:00.35``Erikamusingly, google image search for liberty tank pulls up a lot of images of blonde girls
22:00.51alex_joniheh
22:00.52archivistIve seen the ones sunk in the channel (france), a LOT remains,
22:01.11``Erikartifacts keep MUCH longer underwater than on land
22:01.24``Erikthe oxidation avenue is much slower and less UV and heat abuse
22:01.25starseekerNot the Liberty - that's the Mark VIII
22:01.34starseekerapparently they never went to combat
22:01.54``Erikthere're 7's and 8's listed
22:01.54archivistIm talking the WWII sinkers
22:01.56starseekerwikipedia only knows about the one here and a modified one down at Fort Meade
22:01.59starseekerah
22:02.26starseekeryeah, lot of hardware got put into play off the french coast
22:02.35starseekerneeds to get moving - bbl
22:02.43``Erikhasta manure
22:02.53``Erikor manana or something
22:04.17archivistthey had a silly idea tanks could float into land with the addition of a skirt, rough sees did not help
22:19.19``Erikheh, yes, yet amphibious armored vehicles were eventually realized :)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081116

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081116

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04:15.03starseekergrowls at dgo_build_tops
04:15.33starseekerunless I'm completely mistaken, this part of MGED was set up with the assumption that people wouldn't DO things like e all/box.r
04:16.09starseekerprobably considered too much typing - "just" xpush and do e box.r
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16:22.49``Erikoh me
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19:14.24starseekeris starting to wonder if the way MGED is currently keeping track of what's being drawn is up to this challenge
19:20.15starseekerOr, perhaps, it may be a question of how the sflag is set when the draw command is first run
19:20.31``Erikyou think too much
19:39.28Ralithbrlcad: was there a reason the vector X/Y/Z defines couldn't be replaced with an enum? I thought that had the same effect after compilation
19:39.50Ralithand it would significantly reduce the chance of a naming conflict
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20:00.48starseeker``Erik:  Where the heck is the s_flag set when something is drawn?  Is it in dozoom.c?  If so, then dgo_build_tops might be OK after all
20:01.05starseekeror at least, the proper place to change things is in the draw command
21:13.20starseekerAh, ha!
21:19.49starseekerno, that just introduces new errors
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21:34.08starseekerignores ``Erik and continues trying to think
23:11.54starseekertries to think of a case where you would want to do e all/box.r rather than box.r by itself
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081117

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081117

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06:33.07yukonbobwin 3
06:33.10yukonbobww
06:37.15brlcadRalith: the problem is still there so long as we still use [X], [Y], [Z] in our code and use external codes that have #defines for X, Y, Z
06:37.41brlcadadding them into an enum or enum in a namespace would still result in a failure if they have a #define that screws it up
06:38.15brlcadstarseeker: the case where you want that is to see objects positioned in a given context
06:39.51brlcadbut not in that context -- e.g., engine.r might be modeled at the origin, but actually positioned in some higher level assembly somewhere along the path like /tank/interior/drive_system/engine.r
06:46.03Ralithbrlcad: I'm not suggesting putting it in a namespace, and I don't think a plain enum would break existing code.
06:46.25RalithIt might not make naming conflicts *impossible*, but it makes them far more unlikely
06:46.39Ralithiirc the one I was running into was not in the preprocessor at all.
06:47.08brlcadwork up a patch, see how it works
06:47.15Ralithalright
06:47.33Ralithshould I see if I can manage a before/after performance test?
06:47.45brlcadnot for an enum
06:47.50brlcadthey'll be the same
06:47.53Raliththat's what I thought
06:51.41Ralithredundant #defines in brep.h and dm.h
06:51.47Ralithwhat's that about?
06:52.34brlcadsuch as?
06:52.49Ralithinclude/brep.h:49:#define X 0
06:52.52Ralithinclude/dm.h:57:#define X0
06:53.08brlcaddid you look at brep.h? :)
06:53.17Ralithah.
06:53.22RalithI was getting there >_>
06:53.33Ralithstill, that doesn't cover the why.
06:53.38brlcadit's got similar conflict issues because of openNURBS defines
06:53.42Ralithahh.
06:53.57brlcadthat's all fair-game to clean up
06:53.57Ralithadopting openNURBS's numbering scheme is not an acceptable solution?
06:54.46RalithI suppose it would still be messy, though...
06:55.00brlcadthose symbols aren't the same for them
06:55.44brlcadthe undef/def hacks should certainly go away
06:56.04Ralithopennurbs is C++?
06:57.37brlcadyes
07:24.17Ralithremoving or changing the argument names from lines 60-63 of opennurbs_xform.h seems to take the enum && hack removal past the first failure at no sacrifices to functionality. Not sure how hard it would be to push upstream. Thoughts?
07:31.06Ralithrealizes that grep -R on the entirety of brlcad is going to take a while
07:31.34Ralith...I say as it finishes.
08:00.15brlcadthink that it doesn't fix the problem since any header could use X/Y/Z for arg names
08:00.51brlcadit's almost always simple to fix, on our end or the other end .. that's partially why it's still the way it is
08:00.57Ralithyou could say the same for any globally scoped symbol, with varying degrees of likeliness
08:01.35brlcadnot quite, it's specifically because these are preprocessor symbols that they cause problems
08:01.47brlcadif you made them enums, that should fix the opennurbs issue too I'd think
08:02.58brlcadit just won't fix usages, where it is a variable elsewhere and it might/could get our enum value instead of whatever the variable value was
08:03.06Ralithit doesn't fix the opennurbs issue
08:03.11Raliththat's what I've been testing
08:03.29Ralithactually..
08:03.31Ralithmaybe it does
08:03.44Ralithsomething else has been defining X and I can't find it
08:03.57Ralithcpp reports my enum as 0 = 0, 1 = 1, etc
08:05.15brlcadi just tested it here with a simple test case and it worked
08:05.48brlcadyou still have something defining X to 0
08:05.54Ralithright, there's still a #define X/Y/Z buried somewhere
08:06.00brlcadso your enum gets busted
08:06.19brlcadjust have to weed out the rest
08:06.28Ralithwhat's egrep syntax for whitespace of 1+ chars? Doesn't seem to be \w+
08:07.11brlcadbasic grep would just be '[[:space:]][[:space:]]*'
08:07.44brlcador extended as '[[:space:]]+'
08:07.59brlcad\w is a perl extension iirc
08:08.10Ralithahh.
08:08.12Raliththat explains that.
08:08.49brlcadperl added a slew of \* extensions that save keystrokes
08:08.55Ralithdoes that cover tabs?
08:09.00brlcadyep
08:10.06brlcad[:something:] are posix character classes, probably documented on the re_format(7) manual page
08:10.31Ralithahah!
08:10.35Ralithfurther #defines found!
08:10.42Ralithholy shit there's a lot of redundancy here
08:11.32brlcadnot too surprising, the headers haven't had an overhaul cleanup in a long time but they get quick-patched a lot
08:11.44brlcadcauses a lot of repeat fixing for trivial things
08:13.55Ralithyou can't #define something that's already been #defined, right?
08:13.57brlcadlongs to be done moving so he can spend all night and day coding again
08:14.12Ralithhehe
08:14.18brlcadyou can, but you'll probably get preprocessor warnings or compilation woes
08:14.34brlcad'blah' was redefined
08:16.45Ralithkay
08:17.04Ralithso I can rely on that none of these numerous "#define X" instances override eachother?
08:29.13brlcadalmost guaranteed that they're all just hacks around the fact that openNURBS was also using them, so whenever there's a snippet of code that was dual-processed as C and C++, it needed the protection
08:41.16CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33193 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pnts/pnts.c: flesh out the rest of the fugly pnts export. seriously needs some refactoring cleanup. functify or macrify fer crissakes, or eliminate the cromulent types.
08:44.09Ralithso far so good...
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12:18.35mafmhi
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14:12.50CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33194 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pnts/pnts.c: gave the pointer a type to do arithmetic
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14:25.35brlcadyawns
14:41.07CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33195 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pnts/pnts.c: reduce some of the redundancy, add a routine to pack doubles into the buffer
14:41.53starseekerbrlcad:  Is the points primitive ready to suck in data?
14:42.06brlcadnope, I just finished export
14:42.13brlcadnow I need to do import
14:42.35brlcadanother day
14:43.42starseekerk
14:49.11CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33196 10/brlcad/trunk/include/rtgeom.h: document why there are 8 point data containers
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16:58.04starseekerponders the tree walking aspects of this problem and contemplates first working on the general tree walker
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18:25.09brlcadstarseeker: your diagnosis was closer the first time on the rt path problem
18:25.55brlcadthere's also a little nomenclature that you don't know about -- the solids list is right, it's just not what you think it is
18:26.33brlcadthe primitives used to be called 'solids' .. i.e., solids == primitives
18:27.15brlcadso the solids list really is just a list of the primitives being drawn (since only primitives have wireframes given they're unevaluated and we don't display evaluated versions)
18:28.28brlcadso when you e up all.g, it adds all the relevant primitives to a solids list that it needs to draw all.g (full path to those primitives as there can be duplicates)
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18:29.58brlcadalas, it has absolutely no distinction then between "e a.r" and "e a.r/b.c/c.s" since "e a.r" will cause an /a.r/b.c/c.s path to get added to the solids list
18:30.22brlcadso mged needs to use different information, who needs to be changed
18:55.12CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33197 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/metaball/metaball.c: do not display "goo" in listing when not appropriate
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19:44.30mafmbye
20:46.04starseekerwell, that was an abrupt powerpoint crash
21:23.03``Erikopposed to a carefully planned and meticulously executed powerpoint crash?
21:23.46starseekerwell, usually I expect it to give out when i do something weird like paste an excel graph  into a slide, not when editing a text object
21:25.22``Erikmicrosoft is continually looking for ways to improve the user experience, now you don't even need to do anything 'weird' to get that comfortably familiar response! :D
21:26.04starseekernext they'll be bundling the sledgehammer with which to destroy the offending OS
21:27.17``Erikhttp://www.tburke.net/fun_stuff/pictures/computers/windows-cement.htm   an oldie but a goodie :)
21:54.45CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33198 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pnts/pnts.c: just use a simple fixed value of 1 for sizeless points drawing axes until it can be better tested to work resolution independent
22:40.27CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33199 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch.c: ws
23:02.18CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33200 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/sketch/sketch.c: reduce the for loop depth insanity a few levels
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081118

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081118

00:01.23brlcadhah, hot damn I'm good sometimes
00:03.01``Erikand you believe this is one of those? :D *duck*
00:03.51brlcadyup -- coded for several hours on some new tricky logic intertwined with old, then compiled warning-free/error-free and ran cleanly on the very first try
00:03.56``Erik(yay, gnucash is on my new macbook, now I can do my finances :)
00:04.21``Erikoh, um, that means you probably introduced some very tricky logical bug, no? :D
00:04.38brlcadprobably
00:04.53brlcadbut that's why I'm just that good
00:04.59brlcadall part of the plan to take over the world
00:05.02brlcadone bug at a time
00:05.06``Erikbeat me to it
00:33.29``Erikohhhhhhhhh, I think I get it
00:34.02``Erikleopard is very ... black... lots of black all over the place, I bet it's to show off the new LED backlighting which can do a very good black opposed to the older flourescent
00:41.37RalithI bet it's to show off "we can make even cliche designs look good"
00:48.56CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33201 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/g2asc.c: prevent g2asc from crashing on primitives that don't implement *_get()
00:54.37``ErikHEY, back off, boy
00:54.47``Erikputs on his black turtleneck, beret, and little round glasses
00:54.49``Erik*snap*
00:55.53CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33202 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/color.c): using _of_ seems quirky/dumb/odd on use, instead use _from_ to match _to_
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02:05.42CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33203 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pnts/pnts.c: implement import support for all point types. untested but it no longer seems to quejar destructively. remove the magic number from the export header while we're at it since it petty value even as a sanity check.
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04:13.44starseekerhmm, that's a shame - https://sourceforge.net/projects/filters/ is windows only
04:56.51starseekeris awed by the number of computer vision related efforts out there
04:59.57RalithProgramming Language : C, C#, Delphi/Kylix, Java, Python, Visual Basic .NET
04:59.59Ralithwhat the FUCK
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05:18.45brlcadprobably just bindings
05:21.00Axman6brlcad: ever played with anything like haskell?
05:24.36brlcadAxman6: yeah, ML
05:24.48brlcadand a little bit of haskell but just playing around
05:25.25Axman6righto. haven't tried any ML, the syntax looked too strange compared to haskell, when doing the same stuff. @@ for instance
05:26.06brlcadocaml makes ml actually kinda usable, but yeah it's a quirky language
05:27.34Axman6i really like haskell, there's some awesome work going into it, and i love how all the hard stuff is figuring out the theory behind things, instead of the syntax.
05:28.49Axman6things like STM are quite fun
05:29.19Axman6and `par` for easy parallelising of algorithms
05:31.48brlcadalas, I see haskell (and most functional languages) as really interesting and useful academic tools more than practical languages
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05:32.19brlcadabsolutely beautiful constructs you get but nobody to appreciate it
05:32.55Axman6i think that's beginning to change a bit, but it would be a long time before such things became most mainstream
05:33.16brlcadnods
05:33.45``Erik_O.o
05:33.50Axman6things like STM make haskell very interesting for concurrent applications
05:34.37brlcadis rather happy coding in any language
05:34.59brlcadat least, most languages, there are  afew execptions and contexts
05:35.24Axman6brainfuck?
05:35.41``Erik_heh, pheer my brainfuck compiler :D
05:36.29Axman6i wrote something in brainfuck once. it was pretty much purely random... but it did end up printing something like the Apple command key clover and S or somethign
05:36.40Axman6should find it and try it again...
05:37.13``Erik_I got a belief in my head that the turing tarpit is a perfect place to explore fundamental optimization approaches
05:37.26``Erik_so I cooked up a very simple brainfuck compiler suite as a test bed :)
05:38.35Axman6how'd it go?
05:38.51``Erik_the optimizer seemed to make no difference fro the C output performance, but was orders of mangitude difference for the asm output
05:39.06Axman6excellent
05:39.19``Erik_the bf->c->mc path was the faastest, props to gcc
05:39.31Axman6mc?
05:39.35Axman6oh, machine code?
05:39.39``Erik_ja
05:40.52``Erik_I still believe that zomfg core shit belongs at the tarpit level, but I'm not awesome enough to shatter the world just yet
05:41.14Axman6aww :)
05:42.34``Erik_the host I chose to publish all my crap on decided that someone on that machine was doing something naughty, so locked it down and won't give me my bits back.. sucks
05:43.31Axman6just threaten them with an IP lawsuit or something
05:44.18Axman6if you mention you're with the Army, doing research for them... they mist be more inclined to listen
05:45.10``Erik_I'd be afraid that they might be stupid enough to resist
05:45.30Axman6you're in the army right?>
05:45.50``Erik_no, I'm a civilian employee of
05:46.03Ralith``Erik_: tell them you work for a government organization?
05:46.09Axman6close enough :P know any military lawyers?
05:46.18RalithI dunno, I think the army's pretty intimidating even if you're only an employee.
05:46.28Ralithreally, situations like that tend to respond to any pressure whatsoever
05:46.38``Erik_yes, I do, but there's this horribly thing called ethics :D
05:46.40Raliththey're only not giving you your data cuz they're lazy, unless I missed something
05:46.58Ralithjust send them a scary email.
05:47.13``Erik_they're paranoid little bitches who don't grok the notion of a real security issue
05:47.26``Erik_all theater
05:47.48Raliththey're also paranoid of big bitches who could make their boss angry at them
05:47.54``Erik_but if I abused my position, tha'td be worse than what tehy do
05:48.11Ralithit's not abuse if you're ultimately just saying "I will be very very angry"
05:48.30``Erik_complete segregation, dude
05:48.35Ralith?
05:49.39Axman6"As an employee of the Unites States Army, i have the right to request that your internet privileges, leased from the DoD be revoked immediately"
05:49.42Axman6>_>
05:50.16Axman6"wut? i thought this shit was free, we're fucked, better giv 'em their shit!"
05:50.19``Erik_shakes head
05:50.21Axman6easy :)
05:50.41Ralithlol
05:50.46Ralithlittle bit overboard there
05:50.53Ralith``Erik_: what exactly did you lose?
05:51.08Axman6OS for a ICBM
05:51.11Axman6an*
05:51.16``Erik_personal website, and lone data assocaited with
05:51.36Ralithaw.
05:51.45``Erik_code was all in cvs, but the db stuff was not
05:51.53Ralithif you'd left code up there you could say they were obstructing the fulfillment of your obligations.
05:52.25``Erik_and the math geeks running the site have been going out of their wa to help me
05:53.13``Erik_(I had root access many years after I left that school)
05:53.29brlcadfind someone else with a login account on the server to copy your files out
05:53.47``Erik_the machien is port blocked
05:54.37``Erik_I have a sinking suspicion that the elicite software they discovered was my eggdrop :(
05:55.25Ralitheggdrops are ilicit?
05:55.33Axman6what are eggdrops anyway?
05:55.41``Erik_they contact 'irc', ohz noes
05:55.49``Erik_tcl based irc bot
05:55.55Axman6ah
05:56.03Ralithclassic one at that
05:56.06Axman6and... wait, elicit what?
05:56.17RalithAxman6: he meant illicit, I think :P
05:56.22``Erik_yes,
05:56.24``Erik_:D
05:56.28``Erik_vodka is teh goodz
05:56.32Axman6heh, so did i then :P
05:56.38Axman6anyway, illicit how?
05:56.48Axman6di they solicit?
05:56.51``Erik_no
05:56.53Axman6>_>
05:56.56``Erik_uni paranoia
05:57.21``Erik_I can't get a straight answer out of their networking team
05:57.42``Erik_which I'm apt to read as "it ain't normal, so it's wrong" :(
05:57.49``Erik_and now I must sleep! night, kids
05:58.21Axman6"listen, i have some very important work on that machine that the Army would like to see. They will not be pleased with me, or you, if they cannot see it"
05:58.26Axman6night man
06:04.10RalithIRC is pretty normal
06:04.13Ralithat least for people with servers
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08:48.55Axman6"n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc" trusteduser?
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09:30.35CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33204 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: MS VC++ can not assign a genptr_t (GENPTR_NULL) to a const rt_functab* variable: added a cast to the assignment
09:34.36CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33205 10/rt^3/trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): included rt_db_internal in Object
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11:58.41brlcadhowdy mafm
12:00.03mafmhi
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13:59.37starseekerHumm.  This is kind of a neat idea http://home.earthlink.net/~tylerfolsom/Research/Research.htm
14:02.37starseekerresults in tutorial aren't that hot though
14:11.31``Erik_huh, there's an article that may be up starseekers historic avenue... solving what digital camera was used given just the image
14:11.57``Erik_http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20026826.200-digital-images-contain-their-makers-mark.html
14:13.34``Erik_the ice on my deck still hasn't melted
14:18.10starseekernifty
14:18.22starseekerwhy do you have ice on your desk?  did the roof leak?
14:18.32``Erik_deck, not desk
14:18.36``Erik_I called in today, I'm at home
14:19.50``Erik_I have a large second story deck with french doors and all that shit
14:20.15``Erik_on the north side of the house, so perptually in shadow
14:20.19``Erik_perpetually
14:20.44starseekerah
14:20.54starseekerapparently still isn't parsing properly
14:21.19``Erik_still? do I need to take a photograph? O.o
14:21.35``Erik_*duck*
14:21.37archivistand draw a map
14:22.27``Erik_google earth "my frozen assed deck"
14:22.28``Erik_he
14:22.29``Erik_h
14:22.43``Erik_dEck, you freaks
14:24.28starseekerOoo, more promising - BSD licensed stand alone source code, too http://svr-www.eng.cam.ac.uk/~er258/work/fast.html
14:25.08starseekercorner detection doesn't do much for circular features, but would be a nice start
14:26.49``Erik_*sigh* you missed the critical part
14:26.57``Erik_corners and circles are irrelevent
14:27.18starseekerwaits for it...
14:27.20``Erik_when you break down matter, you get molecules, atoms, quarks, .. keep breaking, eventually you end up with teapots.
14:27.43starseekerah, so it's teapots all the way down?
14:27.46``Erik_the fundamental unit of matter is a teapot, as described by a 16 point bezier surface. Utah style.
14:27.47``Erik_yes
14:28.10starseekerThe overturn of the Turtle Theory is at hand
14:28.43``Erik_the REAL argument isn't about string theory and crap, i'ts about the actual height of the teapot, apparently, someone may've barfed some math and got a 3/4 scaling on the height
14:29.13starseekerheh
14:29.20``Erik_turtles are completely valid, but they're made of teapots.
14:29.22``Erik_:D
14:30.10``Erik_wonders how many people are terribly confused by that convo
14:30.22starseekerSure just like General Relativity can be approximated by Newtonian physics in most cases, Teapots can be approximated by turtles for large numbers of teapont
14:30.28starseekerteapots
14:30.57starseeker``Erik:  Anyone who isn't should seek help immediately
14:31.31starseekerputs link up for later checking when he gets to work: http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/home5/TSOI0002/publications.html
14:32.14``Erik_man, wish I were a contractor, I can't show up 2 hours late or I hae to take time off for it, so I just call in sick instead
14:33.17``Erik_for some reason, this rule from the jacket and tie era didn't die when the other idiotic rules did
14:33.18``Erik_:(
14:35.01starseeker``Erik:  We just pump more hours in at other times - you're required to have a life ;-)
14:36.15starseekergets in trouble for working late
14:36.22``Erik_if I could rock a crunch, that'd be sweet
14:36.34starseekerwhat?
14:36.44``Erik_40 hour grind, one session
14:36.48starseekerah
14:36.53``Erik_caffiene and sugar and much code
14:37.10``Erik_that hypnotic zomfg guru code spew phase
14:37.56starseekernods
14:38.00``Erik_I think I had two really good ones in my life, once in my teens when I was guzzling soda from 2l bottles and popping candy like mad
14:38.27``Erik_the other while I was hopped up on a codeine cocktail after having my wisdom teeth removed (one shattered, they cut my jaw apart, gave me 'the good stuff')
14:38.51starseekerowowowowow
14:38.52clock_now when I hear you talking about coding fits etc.
14:39.01``Erik_when real life ends and all that exists is the machine
14:39.02clock_I want to ask you do you also have problems with lack of social skills?"
14:39.03``Erik_:)
14:39.12starseekerheads in before he thinks about teeth too much
14:39.37``Erik_I'm quite antisocial, I make it a point to piss people off. Yet I seem to be in a nice relationship with a lovely young woman, have several friends, ...
14:39.54starseekertype to put image analysis aside for a moment and focus on trees any hyp...
14:40.08``Erik_I'm probably more antagonistic than antisocial
14:40.21starseeker``Erik_:  You mean she didn't kill you for disappearing like that? ;-)
14:40.27``Erik_not yet
14:40.28clock_``Erik_: what does it mean "I make it a point to piss people off"?
14:40.39starseekerthought ``Erik_ had tapped in from the afterlife - how else would he know about the teapots?
14:40.42``Erik_I go out of my way to annoy people
14:40.48clock_aha
14:40.51clock_I did that before too
14:40.54clock_But not anymore
14:41.01``Erik_yeah, I've backed off soe
14:41.12louipcAxman6: Trusted Users are a group that manage the Arch Linux community repository. Kind of a step below 'developer'.
14:41.13clock_``Erik_: but imagine you are say in a busy railway station single and you see a nice woman
14:41.26starseeker``Erik_:  I think there are more folk around at work that speak your dialect now :-P
14:41.27clock_Would you feel incomfortable approaching her and starting to speak at her?
14:41.36``Erik_uh huh? and I definitely appreciate the view, but I stay seated
14:41.39clock_uncomfortable I mean
14:41.53starseekerRegardless, I'll bet she would
14:41.56``Erik_not that railway station means anything in the us, I'll assume you meant airport ;)
14:42.07starseeker"why the heck is this guy heading toward me?"
14:42.13clock_yes I mean airport
14:42.27clock_starseeker: exactly...
14:42.38``Erik_notes that long hair, earrings, goatee, ... imagines he has some aura of 'fuck off or I'll fucking stab you')
14:42.56starseekeryou project that or invoke it?
14:43.05clock_``Erik_: you have long hair airrings and goatee?
14:43.20``Erik_clock: yes. starseeker: I don't know.
14:43.28clock_``Erik_: oh cool :)
14:45.08``Erik_I think in general I'm civil and polite to a fault, but I seem to try to perpetuate an aura of 'don't fuck with me' :)
14:45.47starseekerstratigically that does make some sense
14:46.08starseeker``Erik: See ya tomorrow I guess ;-)
14:46.20``Erik_if I make it in, yes... have a safe drive
14:46.31starseekeris it frozen out there still?
14:46.37``Erik_I know I was upset and unhappy drivign on 95 last night... rain, traffic... *pheer*
14:46.42``Erik_yes
14:46.47starseekercrud
14:46.53``Erik_and cloudy
14:46.57``Erik_hold up a sec
14:47.30``Erik_that is very definitely frozen ice on my deck
14:47.39``Erik_be careful driving
14:47.58``Erik_but I am up in the hills, 95 and apg are way down
14:48.05``Erik_hopefully you don't see ice :)
14:48.10starseekercool
14:48.17starseekerI'll be careful
14:48.18starseekerlater
14:49.02clock_Wikipedia claims social skills are a learned behaviour do you think it's true?
14:49.32``Erik_(for those who don't get why ice and stuff is so damn scary on the road here... it's not your control, it's the idjit soccer mom in the 4000kg suv behind you that thinks 4wd means faster stopping)
14:49.59clock_1`
14:50.07clock_``Erik_: what is this soccer mom I already heard it
14:50.15``Erik_for the most part, clock, I do. I personally believe that core function of primary education is to teach the social skills
14:50.28clock_lol
14:50.43clock_I always assumed the core function of primary education is to annoy the pupils to death
14:50.45``Erik_um, derogatory term for a woman with some wealth at her disposal but little upstairs
14:51.05clock_like she doesn't have any toys in the attic?
14:51.31clock_lol hehe
14:51.41clock_so her intelligence is just enough to buy a suv?
14:51.42``Erik_I'm sure you have the notional stereotype... blond chick who breeds, drives an suv, takes care of the kids when they're not in daycare... that's about it
14:51.59clock_basically a female and older version of a chav?
14:52.06``Erik_chav?
14:52.13clock_no... chav is on a social support right? She has a SUV she isn't
14:52.51``Erik_wikipedia has an entry about it
14:53.03clock_sure they have an entry on anything
14:53.13``Erik_apparently not webcomics
14:53.15``Erik_heh
14:53.27clock_if we should look into wikipedia for everything instead of discussing, the human communication could cease altogether ;-)
14:53.37``Erik_perhaps
14:54.07``Erik_but I'd rather point you to a url than make myself more a fool than usual
14:54.07``Erik_:D
14:55.55clock_it's interesting to talk with you
14:56.26``Erik_all I can hope is that I disturb your notion of what an american is
14:56.26``Erik_:(
14:56.52clock_well you have obama now don't you?
14:57.03``Erik_in a couple months
14:57.05clock_So the guantanamo will be disassembled and all the weird stuff gets back to normal doesn't?
14:57.26``Erik_I'd like it to be so, but I have little hope
14:57.37clock_yes I hope he's already preparing the handbrake U-turn he's gonna do when Dubya hands him the wheel over
14:58.00``Erik_in the world orientation, both the 'republicans' and 'democrats' are incredibly right wing
14:58.32``Erik_they call him a liberal, but don't be fooled, there are no liberals in us politics
14:58.49``Erik_and since I'm out sick today, I can say shit like that, so PTBTBBTBT
15:00.29clock_sonds like a pretty long acronym
15:01.30``Erik_I'm bitter cynical and old. I have low expectations. No acronyms. Just... malaise.
15:02.12``Erik_I've become a huge history and archeology buff, and I look at the modern world and am just saddened
15:04.58clock_``Erik_: how old are you?
15:05.12``Erik_oh, too old... in my 30's
15:05.25clock_that's pretty old youre right
15:05.26``Erik_I believe only archivist is older than me here :)
15:05.37archivisthides
15:05.42clock_have you already thought which coffin finish you would like to have?
15:05.53``Erik_no, I can't die
15:06.00``Erik_I have too much shit to do first
15:06.16clock_I am 29 and I already feel old
15:06.24archivistshit do do, cars to crash etc
15:06.39``Erik_I think I got the car crashing out of my system
15:06.42clock_archivist: he can do the crash and dying part at once, saving some time
15:06.52``Erik_at least I picked a german machine to do it in, otherwise, I may not've walked away
15:07.01clock_Mercedes>?
15:07.04``Erik_bmw
15:07.08``Erik_I rolled an m3
15:07.23clock_it's like an SUV isn't it?
15:07.26``Erik_something about 4 trees, a hill, a chunk of road a couple times
15:07.27``Erik_m3?
15:07.28``Erik_...
15:07.31``Erik_no, tha'ts their sports car
15:07.42``Erik_x3 is their suv
15:07.54clock_right
15:07.54``Erik_m is the bmw equiv of a merc amg
15:08.28clock_so after that you had to walk?
15:08.42clock_I thought Americans don't walk
15:09.02``Erik_someone hick in a truck calle dthe cops, I found what remained of my phone and put it togheter enough to call iraytrace
15:09.20``Erik_he came and fetched me, otherwise it would've been a 10 km walk
15:09.50``Erik_he sat and drank vodka with me and made sure I wasn't too damaged
15:10.02``Erik_it's good to have good friends :)
15:10.34``Erik_I suspect he was analyzing if he needed to take me to the hospital or not the entire time
15:12.07``Erik_(I hope, anyways)
15:19.01clock_If youre party how do you switch the people to talk to?
15:19.20clock_Can you just stop talking to one and without any explanation walk away?
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16:08.34PrezKennedyhttp://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1786497
16:08.43PrezKennedyseems to be a nasty iphone problem there ;)
16:56.00starseeker``Erik_: metaballs - where is the last "things are working" commit?
16:56.32starseekerI see one in July I'm assuming is it, but there's two in october and one in Nov. - are they fixes or testing new features?
16:57.48brlcadworking a 40 hour stint in two days and then disappearing would be a career killer, that'd be bad in so many ways
17:05.10starseekerpoor visibility, health effects?
17:17.46brlcadyeah, that's horrible visibility
17:18.05brlcadhealth effects you might be able to sustain, but the (anti)social aspects would be a killer
17:19.15brlcadnot to mention resentment (who doesn't want a 5-day weekend) and the big potential to not be productive during that time (at least not as productive as you could be if the time were spread out)
17:19.27starseekerright
17:20.01brlcadparticularly given everyone has to communicate with others from time to time, if only to communicate those changes and progress
17:21.10brlcadworking it all in one go is like committing a patch with 250k lines of changes.. that's horrible at communicating what changed, horrible to review, horrible to test, ... just a "bad idea" no matter how many features are included
17:21.21brlcadalienates
17:21.27brlcadis done :)
17:21.34starseekerheh
17:22.12starseekercan't physically sustain such an effort anyway, even if I wanted to - found that out in college
17:26.48starseekerwinces - this is going to mess up the release notes table generation again...
17:28.12PrezKennedyi think after hour #14 id be about ready to say "screw you guys, i'm going home!" :)
17:32.38brlcadeven when I work a long 30 hour stint.. you'll still see me a couple other times that week
17:33.13brlcadif I'm working late/long, i'm either having a lot of fun (ideally) or there's something important due
17:33.47brlcadstarseeker: what table generation?
17:34.05starseekerfor CCB
17:34.07brlcadthe spreadsheet?  wouldn't worry about that so much
17:34.16starseekerisn't, just grousing ;-)
17:34.31starseekerOK, big STABLE revert underway...
17:34.37brlcadthe changes aren't being applied to trunk, the table should be fine
17:35.00starseekerIf we do a 7.12.8 though, the NEWS file gets hacked up
17:35.21starseekerno biggie
17:36.10brlcada section just gets inserted noting why the release was made
17:36.32brlcadthe script only notes * lines, and there'd only be one at most for .8
17:36.40starseekerAh
17:38.13starseekerlooks like the post July changes are related to inserting points and a listing change when printing out information about metaballs
17:39.53starseekerbrlcad:  What's your preference?  Is there a chance te listing changes are related to scripted uses of the primitive?
17:40.43brlcadthere's always a chance.. I've not read the commit in detail
17:40.59brlcadprobably a small chance
17:41.22brlcadgo ahead and apply it too just in case, it's a succint patch
17:41.34starseekerThat means a 7.12.8 then
17:42.06brlcadah, right that was only if .6 didn't have the fix
17:42.28starseekerright.  Since I don't know exactly what the complaint is, it's a bit tricky
17:42.49brlcadsounds like a phone call :)
17:42.54starseekerhowever, if we DON'T need a 7.12.8 it'd be silly to do this to stable :-)
17:43.04starseekerright.  Whom do I annoy?
17:44.32brlcadyou're not annoying :)
17:45.24starseekerwill have to try harder :-P
18:23.15``Erik_um, I THINK the first commit after the 7.12.2 release is what'll make dave and geoff and russ happy
18:24.08``Erik_brlcad: you have a knack for disappearing and I seem to be the one accosted when you do, so I'm stuck saying things like "sean is as sean does, is there anything I can do to help?" or "sean works in mysterous ways, what can I do?"
18:24.40``Erik_"where the hell is sean?" "I d'no, I saw commits this morning, he's holed up doing good things"
18:26.58``Erik_I miss the ability to grind, the locked down hour notion makes me feel like a gov't beaurocrat, so I have little desire to step up and be a code monkey and find comfort in comforming to the beaurocrat approach :( it's a soul crushing horrible situation
18:51.12brlcadthat's mostly been just the past two months while I've been moved
18:51.19brlcadschedule is shifted a solid 5 hours
18:51.38brlcadand I've used up more leave all at once than ever before in a pretty short timeframe
18:52.08brlcadprobably the first year I might actually use up most of my leave time
19:02.57``Erik_hrm
19:03.09``Erik_dante's use of comcast may've been a significant factor of his writing.
19:09.37mafmbrlcad: today in 1h I have an interview with minions on the evil one! :D
19:09.43mafmnow I go home, take care
19:09.49brlcadah
19:09.54brlcadwell good luck if that interests you
19:10.08mafmnot much, if not to go to visit the bigfoots :D
19:10.22brlcadso you're traveling up to WA?
19:10.26mafmit's an external consultancy or whatever the name
19:10.34mafmnot at all, it's only a phone interview
19:10.38brlcadah
19:11.02brlcadphase 1
19:11.22mafmbut if would be good if I were to cross the atlantic for an interview :D
19:11.30brlcadcouple phases before WA, then usually the in-persons on-site
19:11.46mafmI liked to fly over the alps when going to a CERN interview :)
19:11.55mafmso you went to an interview with them too? :D
19:12.01brlcadnow CERN sounds like a more interesting job :)
19:12.07brlcadnope
19:12.20brlcadI turned them down early
19:12.26mafmxD
19:12.32brlcadbut had a couple friends that went there
19:12.50mafmI also told that I didn't use m$ products often, but that apparently didn't discourage them
19:13.35brlcadnot at all, they look for ability to learn, not experience
19:14.12mafmbut if you don't use their products it's probably because you have a resistance to learn them, maybe ;)
19:14.39brlcadthey know a lot of people hate them, especially in CS .. but they also know that's some of the best people
19:15.03brlcadand they have a proven track record at being able to compromise people's (weak) principles with just a little bit of money/toys
19:15.10mafmheh, that's not my case then (some of the best people)
19:15.17mafmanyway, have to go now before the shop close also
19:15.24brlcadcya
19:15.29brlcadhope you get what you want ;)
19:15.45mafmboob.. erm, sorry :D
19:16.38mafmbye folks!
19:16.58brlcadapparently only want's one :)
19:17.11brlcadwould rather have at least two, in multiples of two
19:21.46PrezKennedy2^x boobs
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21:54.06CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33207 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/src/other/tkhtml3/Makefile.in: the problem WAS fixed.. just not merged successfully. merge the other half of r33137 from trunk that was missing that adds cssprop.o to the linkage. this should fix the mac compilation regression woes.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081119

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081119

06:25.36*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
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13:44.37``Erik_heh, one of my good buddies in college (dusty) was a very outspoken anti-ms pro-linux nerd, they took him, twisted him... he was back in town and evangelizing them after a bit
13:45.02``Erik_if I were accepted into their research division, I'd go for that... otherwise, I don't think I could stomach it
13:45.18``Erik_not even their rogue mac division :(
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14:14.35*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
14:16.34CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33208 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pnts/pnts.c:
14:16.34CIA-62BRL-CAD: this amazingly seems to work without needing a switching table. implement ifree
14:16.34CIA-62BRL-CAD: to free the rt_pnts_internal structure including all stashed points. probably
14:16.34CIA-62BRL-CAD: regret it slightly if we ever decide to undo type aliasing but for now it's the
14:16.34CIA-62BRL-CAD: path of least resistance and one step closer to completion.
14:20.13mafmhi pplz
14:21.07CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33209 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/pnts/pnts.c: ws comment cleanup
14:22.56brlcadhowdy mafm
14:26.50mafmsigh
14:26.58brlcadhow did it go?
14:27.00mafmlegal fights with the lab, otherwise pretty well :)
14:27.16mafmoh, a very nice technical interview, but they rejected me right away
14:28.23brlcadoutstanding
14:28.27brlcader, I mean .. sorry to hear that
14:29.45mafmoutstanding?
14:30.09brlcadwould consider that a compliment to be rejected by the rejects
14:30.41clock_brlcad: I sometimes get rejected because I am too good for that position
14:32.48mafmwell, I think that I performed well in the technical aspects
14:33.05brlcadI don't think I'm too good to work for them, I strongly disapprove of many of their business practices that have occurred over the years
14:33.15mafmbut didn't show much interest in the questions such as "why do you want to work at microsoft?"
14:33.30mafm"I don't, they approched me and I just sent the CV"
14:33.36mafm:D
14:33.40brlcadnice
14:34.26mafmit was not for m$ itself anyway, but from subsidiaries with offices at Paris or maybe other things in the near future
14:34.40mafmsomething about music services
14:35.20clock_microsoft
14:38.32mafmyep, the Evil One
14:38.33mafm:P
14:39.08mafmso no visit to Paris or the woods of the bigfoot or anything :(
14:57.39``Erik_redmond is pretty developed
14:57.54``Erik_you'd have to drive up into the hills to see bigf... uh, woods
14:59.02Axman6i thought ballmer still worked for MS?
14:59.09Axman6ba doom cha
14:59.57``Erik_now that just ain't cool, sasquash is a peaceful friendly dude, not a sweat drenched chair throwing madman
15:00.02``Erik_only humans could be that fucked up
15:00.03``Erik_:D
15:00.15Axman6:P
15:01.17``Erik_supposedly, ms has a habit of grabbing young coders and burning them out fast, very not family friendly... 80 hour work weeks, free pizza and soda, etc...
15:01.37``Erik_may've changed int he last 15 years, I d'no
15:01.56``Erik_but they DID provide 'almost live' with some good skit meat :D that was an awesome show
15:02.04Axman6they're supposed to have some of the best coders out there too... but management means you end up with shit like vista
15:02.20``Erik_everyone has the best coders.
15:02.29``Erik_I don't think the people who say that know what that means
15:03.19``Erik_"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
15:03.31Axman6where's that from?
15:03.35``Erik_princess bride
15:04.17Axman6don't think i've seen that, but it sounds familliar
15:04.24``Erik_commonly quoted
15:04.27``Erik_it's a good flick
15:04.47Axman6i must get my girlfriend to make me watch it then :P
15:04.48``Erik_mid 80's iirc, should be able to buy the dvd cheap or find it online or something, or rent it for a buck or whatever
15:05.26``Erik_yeah, it's a good one to watch with the wench
15:11.32archivistmade me glance there ``Erik_ the_wench is my bot name
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15:31.15Axman6don't call my girlfriend a wench :( she gives me sex
15:31.27Axman6and i love her deeply
15:32.12``Erik_I... uh... wow, so many horribly wrong comments to make, I can't pick one O.O
15:32.21``Erik_:D
15:32.38``Erik_shuts up and pets his pancake
15:33.39Axman6damn it, i want pancakes!
15:33.46``Erik_no, she's  mine!
15:33.56Axman6oh, and heh, i see what you mean
16:49.36starseekerbrlcad:  What's all the stuff in MGED about TRY_EDIT_NEW_WAY?  Is that the "standard" way now and no one removed the conditionals or is there some ongoing work on it?
16:57.08starseekerseems to be a fair bit of code duplication with respect to the rotating behaviors in here...
16:57.19starseekerw
16:57.22starseekerwhoops
16:59.10brlcadstarseeker: svn annotate
17:02.42starseekermostly morrison or brlcad on the lines - your work?
17:02.59brlcadread the commit message that goes with that revision
17:03.05starseekerah
17:04.36brlcadmuch of the code traces back to me when everything moved from the top-level to a nested restructure, so you have to trace back to where the file used to be (e.g. mged/edsol.c instead of src/mged/edsol.c prior to revision 22798
17:05.02brlcadwhitespace changes will also show up -- always have to check the commit message since it could be innocuous changes
17:05.26brlcadso you annotate, then check the log message, then reannotate with -rrevision, then recheck log, etc
17:05.34starseekerah
17:05.47brlcad(usually easiest to dump the raw log to a file, and just refer to that as you annotate)
17:06.01brlcadthe web interface makes some of that easier too, like getting to where things used to be
17:07.25brlcade.g., if you find out that a file moved at revision 22798, you can go to http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/ .. enter 22798 in the sticky revision box, then you'll see the old hierarchy
17:07.41starseekerneat!
17:07.52starseekerwasn't aware the web ui was that sophisticated
17:08.53brlcadmore to the point of that change: http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/mged/edsol.c?view=diff&pathrev=22798&r1=12921&r2=12922
17:09.27brlcadand bob's wonderful commenting tradition clearly states exactly what he changed and why he changed it that way in the commit message
17:09.29starseekerah :-)
17:09.53starseekerwoulud have bet $$ it was bob with that style of coding
17:10.25starseekerOh, lordy
17:10.54starseekerso for over 10 years the dead code has been sitting around with that conditional in there
17:12.28starseekerconsidering it's MGED... do I just replicate the sins of the past and duplicate the logic yet again or is it worth at least a little fixing?
17:13.52starseekersupposes the edsol logic might be usable elsewhere, maybe with some retargeting of menu names and such...
17:18.01starseekerdecides on some preliminary cleanup testing to see how much work it would be...
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17:30.25starseekernotes he has just blundered into the largest file in src/mged
17:32.40brlcadstarseeker: refactoring is always in order
17:33.04brlcadI usually elimiate dead code like that after a decade or after I understand why it was made conditional in the first place
17:33.36brlcadespecially on "recent" conditionals, it's often not desirable to use the more recent one .. but they shouldn't both stay of course
17:33.46starseekernods
17:33.49clock_I just wrote down all the psychical problems I have
17:34.03clock_and burst into laughter. I didn't know one person can have so many problems.
17:34.07starseekerIf I'm reading this right, the "TRY_EDIT_NEW_WAY flag has been set for YEARS
17:34.11clock_It's simply amazing.
17:34.45clock_I think I should consult a professional ask if everything is all right do you think it's a good idea?
17:34.51starseekerbrlcad:  Is the logic in edsol something we hope will survive to be used in a new GUI?
17:35.26brlcadstarseeker: that's often the case .. there are lots of issues that have been there for two decades
17:35.47brlcadclock_: I think you should if you think you should :P
17:35.56starseekerwould hope that major issues would have been noticed by the users within a decade...
17:36.23brlcadexactly, but that's also why it's a case by case
17:36.31brlcadfor something that old, it's a trivial decision
17:36.54starseekerlimbers up his "d" pressing finger
17:38.44CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33210 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/edsol.c: I think we've tried editing the new way long enough. the old way is out of date.
17:39.42brlcadcommit early, commit often ;)
17:40.09starseekerand which 30 key simultaneous press was that edit? :-P
17:41.07brlcadctrl-s s, ctrl-k, ctrl-s #, ctrl-k k k, repeat
17:42.08starseekermust concede the speed competition to brlcad
17:50.45CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33211 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/edsol.c: More dead code cleanup.
18:18.58clock_Do you have any idea what "loving life" may mean?
18:26.59PrezKennedyJRtheyre high
18:42.45clock_;-)
18:58.14CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33212 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (edsol.c sedit.h tedit.c): Starting on hyp editing support in MGED
19:06.36CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33213 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/edsol.c: massive ws, indent, and style cleanup
19:13.25CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33214 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/edsol.c: oops, quick revert of 33213 -- missed some typo
19:19.00CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33215 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/edsol.c: okay, that's better. reapply the ws, style, indent cleanups from 33213 but wrap the vmath macros correctly so the new semicolon doesn't cause a syntax error.
19:20.22CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33216 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (15 files): move the mged_ttol and mged_tol declarations into mged.h so we don't have to declare them everywhere.
19:32.29CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33217 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/edsol.c: quell warnings
19:42.10mafmsuch a frenziness! :P
19:42.29mafmI go home now, bye
19:43.17CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33218 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/anal.c: get rid of the obsolete major/minor protections
19:48.13CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33219 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (7 files): more dead code removal, removing the DO_NEW_EDIT_MATS and DO_DISPLAY_LISTS else case sections.
19:51.02CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33220 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/dozoom.c: fix indentation, remove more dead code
19:53.41CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33221 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (buttons.c chgtree.c): more dead code removal
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21:02.29CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33222 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/table.c: sed doesn't seem to like rt_nul_xform here for hyp
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22:08.05CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33223 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (13 files): add a slew of crash protections around the rt_functab accessors. this needs to be refactored into a better interface where the callers aren't accessing the functab directly.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081120

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081120

00:27.41starseekersighs as he realizes all the hyp.c math will need a rework
00:28.30brlcadsighs as he realizes the g-vrml exporter will need a rework
00:29.29``Erik_sighs as he realizes that computers are hard and his brain will need a rework
00:31.07starseeker``Erik_:  I thought you were rewriting your brain in Lisp?
00:36.38Ralithbrlcad, g-vrml? Neat!
00:40.54brlcadRalith: hm?  we've had that converter for ages
00:40.55starseekerbrlcad:  Cool, market below 8000
00:41.00brlcadyep
00:41.31Ralithbrlcad, I'm sure we've had lots of things I don't know about for ages :P
00:41.36Ralithdoesn't make it less neat.
00:41.56brlcad:)
00:42.13brlcadfinds new things I either didn't know about or had long since forgotten all the time ;)
00:42.52brlcadit seems to be very unhappy with dxf-imported bots for some reason, though .. very annoying
00:43.47starseekerfalls over laughing at the big 3 automaker CEOs flying to D.C. in private jets to ask for money
00:44.08starseekernot that it makes any practical difference, but the symbolism is great
01:03.28Ralithyeah
03:30.53CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33224 10/brlcad/trunk/ (Makefile.am bench/Makefile.am):
03:30.53CIA-62BRL-CAD: hook in make check to make test and make benchmark so that distcheck will also
03:30.53CIA-62BRL-CAD: have to pass those two in order to succeed. still don't want distclean wiping
03:30.53CIA-62BRL-CAD: out the benchmark 'summary' file, so have to add a manual exemption to the
03:30.53CIA-62BRL-CAD: top-level, but we do need to clean up after the various log and pix files.
04:00.20CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33225 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: per a forum discussion thread about g-vrml that has come up before, it'd be useful if g-vrml had an option to output v1 or v2 format. this would make a great easy little project for someone looking to get involved.
04:02.12CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33226 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS:
04:02.12CIA-62BRL-CAD: g-vrml seems to ignore bots that are created with dxf-g. a simple workaround
04:02.12CIA-62BRL-CAD: seems to be to pass the imported bot through the stl exporter/importer then
04:02.12CIA-62BRL-CAD: it'll export as vrml (but also ends up doubling the number of faces).
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08:02.09CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33227 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 5 dirs):
08:02.09CIA-62BRL-CAD: Rework the hyp primitive to use input parameters provied by user as primary
08:02.09CIA-62BRL-CAD: storage of dimensions. Compiles and make seems to throw up a hyp - next up is
08:02.09CIA-62BRL-CAD: more extensive testing of the change and continuing with the editing support.
08:02.29starseekerwoo-hoo!
08:02.39starseeker<crash> zzzzzz.....
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11:47.49claymoreMorning all.
12:06.48CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33228 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/cpp/docs/BME.eap: Continuing Architecture Work: Segregated projects into appropriate namespaces. Begun coding work load divisions.
12:21.54CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33229 10/rt^3/trunk/src/iBME/ (. superceded_GS/): Organizational Changes. Creating directories and moving code snippets and libraries into their appropriate directories.
12:22.02CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33230 10/rt^3/trunk/src/ (geometryService/cpp/docs/ iBME/docs/): Organizational Changes. Creating directories and moving code snippets and libraries into their appropriate directories.
12:24.43CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33231 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/ (cpp/ java/): Organizational Changes. Creating directories and moving code snippets and libraries into their appropriate directories.
12:26.36CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33232 10/rt^3/trunk/src/iBME/superceded_GS/ (cpp/ cpp/docs/ java/): Organizational Changes. Moved first attempt at the Geometry Service into a superceded_ directory under iBME.
12:27.47CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33233 10/rt^3/trunk/src/geometryService/: Organizational Changes. Deleted empty src/geometryService directory.
12:38.47brlcadmornin'
12:39.46claymorehowdy.  Just waking or getting ready to crash?
12:40.12brlcadneither, I've been up for a while
12:40.47claymorefun stuff!  How you been?  Read through the emails at work... looks like someone's memory stick was naughty lol.
12:47.26claymorebrlcad: So I am working on getting a 'Roast of the GeometryService' meeting lined up.  When are you available?
13:15.16brlcadokay, cool -- but if this is an arl thing, then can discuss it there
13:18.43claymoreno discussion needed.  Just need to know what days you will be available. ;)
13:29.14CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33234 10/rt^3/trunk/src/iBME/docs/BME.eap: Continuing Architecture Work: Added ResourceManifest class to enhance robustness of Resource transfers.
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13:32.41brlcadd_rossberg: moin!
13:39.20d_rossberghallo brlcad
13:39.50claymored_rossberg: heya.  how goes things?
13:43.00d_rossberghi claymore, which of the many things on my desktop do you mean?
13:43.23claymored_rossberg: things in general.
13:45.25CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33235 10/rt^3/trunk/src/iBME/ (86 files in 7 dirs): Continuing Architecture Work: Initial import of class skeleton code.
13:45.52d_rossbergwell, the end of the year is near and there are some things which have to be finished ... but i shouldn't complain
13:46.09starseekerboots brain...
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13:47.17d_rossbergbtw, i had a look at the iBME section in the wiki
13:48.07claymored_rossberg: Yeah, I got about 5% into my work when I had to take a few days off.  But I am back at it.  More to come on the documentation.
13:48.16clock_I got an idea
13:48.22claymored_rossberg: input always welcome!  Questions too.
13:48.28clock_Since BRL-CAD uses an efficient short format to store 3D databases
13:48.41clock_I have developed a very dense 2D barcode with error correction
13:48.53clock_One could make a sticker that would contain a 3D model of an object and stick it on an object
13:49.10clock_If someone needed to interface that object mechanically he would scan the sticker and would have a model available
13:49.23claymoreclock_: neat idea :)
13:49.51claymoreclock_: what physical dimensions?  what storage capacity?
13:49.52clock_It fits 200kB per page A4 with a laser printer
13:50.06clock_A6 then 50kB etc.
13:50.25clock_But now I see a usual .g file is like 19kB or so maybe it would be too big
13:50.35clock_maybe compressed
13:51.04claymoreheh, um, most of the .g's I have worked with are 50-400MB ;)
13:51.08clock_lol
13:51.10clock_no way then :)
13:51.34claymoreI got excited when you tossed out the words 'High density'
13:51.36clock_Or it could be a tiny stamp containing only the URLs with the information
13:52.06clock_It has higher density than the patented PARC Dataglyph which has allegedly only 50kB per A4
13:52.09claymorethose ginormous files consisted of mostly bots though...
13:53.19claymorewell, back to work.
13:53.24claymore:/
14:03.47brlcadclaymore: btw, if it's not been said.. the commit messages are much better :)  been able to follow much better
14:04.44claymorebrlcad: I have been SOOOO tempted to run them through a Ebonics translator just for fun.  But thanks, I'm learning still :)
14:04.44brlcadespecially the ones today, that's the 'it tells a story' aspect that is great to have in the revision history
14:05.29brlcadhey, you're talking to other devs, so jokes are sometimes appreciated :)
14:05.30claymored_rossberg: do you have any immediate feedback from the docs on the wiki?
14:05.49starseeker<snort> particularly insults to Windows
14:06.15brlcadnow just wishes there was a better text-diffable format for diagrams
14:06.37claymorestarseeker: I got a brother-in-law that works for MS and kicks back nearly ALL the perks to his family... so I need to be somewhat careful :)
14:06.46starseekerah :-)
14:07.12starseekeris only likely to get a poison dart arrow from MS, considering my history with open source
14:07.24claymorestarseeker: Nothing like legit copies of XP Pro for $10 :)
14:07.25clock_I wonder what an output from Ebonics translator looks like.
14:07.57brlcadclaymore: sure there is, copies of BSD or Linux for $0 :)
14:09.21claymorebrlcad:  Not when you run your own whitebox bidness out of your house and the customer wants Windows.  :)
14:09.32starseekerbrlcad:  there's matplotlib:  http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/gallery.html
14:10.40starseekerprobably a bit too function/dat plotting specific though
14:10.49brlcadstarseeker: someone should build an architexture/project diagram tool on top of that then :)
14:10.57brlcadby itself, though, it's too low-level
14:11.18starseekernods
14:11.33starseekerplus, introduces python as a requirement
14:11.37brlcadhm, what was the tool that one of the gsoc students used..
14:11.47starseekerwhat specific application did you have in mind?
14:12.41starseekerclaymore's docs?
14:12.50brlcadsomething like visio
14:13.04starseekerAh, yes...
14:13.31starseekerwas thinking we could make claymore re-implement his diagrams in graphviz ;-)
14:13.44brlcadnot even something code-specific, omnigraffle is probably an even better example
14:14.34starseekergoogles omnigraffle
14:15.27starseekeroh, it is graphviz based
14:15.33claymorestarseeker: You and what army pal!  *protects his diagrams*
14:15.48starseekeruh - the one outside the window? :-P
14:16.02claymorestarseeker: Thats your verizon network silly.
14:16.51starseekerbrlcad:  pity that's commercial
14:16.59brlcadyeah, it is
14:17.16brlcadomni's tools are all outstanding, but mostly non-free
14:17.43starseekerhmm... tcldot + tk widgets + lots of ugly hackery...
14:18.22starseeker+ graphviz as a requirement...
14:18.34starseeker~= trouble probably
14:25.51starseekerhumph - looks like the only Tk+graphviz work was done in Perl
14:26.21starseekermust investigate tcldot... potential for evil here :-)
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14:27.58claymore
14:29.00mafmhi pplz
14:29.46claymorehai mafm!
14:30.17starseekeralrightie, as the song says "back on the road again"
14:36.35CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33236 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/hyp/hyp.c: style/consistency cleanup. format up comments, remove embedded tabbage.
14:38.57claymoreimagines what Starseeker Nelson would look like..... *shiver*
14:39.02claymore:D
14:41.11d_rossbergclaymore: now i had a closer look to your docs ...
14:42.16d_rossberge.g.: BrlcadDbResource::getGeometryByObjectName() can never return a GeoRegion
14:43.53claymoreFirstly, the BrlcadDbResource class is under my spotlight right now... there is something not right about how I implemented it.
14:44.37claymorebut as for not being able to return a GeoRegion... why not?  GeoRegion isa GeoCollection isa AbstractResource....
14:45.46d_rossbergthat's true, but getGeometryByObjectName always returns an AbstractResource (i.e. the base class)
14:48.28claymorewhat you said is also true.  Since a GeoRegion isa AbstractResource, getGeometryByObjectName can return ANY AbstractResource or subclass...
14:48.40claymore.... so I don't see how it can't.
14:53.23claymorenot that I couldn't be wrong, but that's how I though OO inheritance worked.  
14:53.48claymorethough = thought
14:53.58d_rossbergat the end of the execution of getGeometryByObjectName the copy constructor of AbstactResource will be called which can create an AbstractResource only
14:54.42claymoreno copies, just references/pointers.
14:55.21d_rossbergthere is no & or *
14:56.09d_rossbergreturning the value means using the copy constructor
14:56.26claymorerighto.  Design docs are still a work in progress.  Assume ALL object passing is either reference or pointer.  Never by value.
14:56.59d_rossbergbut then: who owns these objects? how long do they live?
14:58.00d_rossbergwill be back in some minutes
14:58.09claymoreMany different things can have a handle on AbstractResource objects.  Primarily, they will reside in the ResourceCache.
15:00.10claymoreAs various commands are recieved, the GE will perform UUID lookups first in the ResourceCache, then secondly in the ResourceSvnLink, then in anyother AbstractResourceSources registered with the ResourceManager.
15:01.25claymoreOnce (if) the AbstractResoruce is located by the ResourceManager, a handle can be passed into the appropriate Function in the GED object and the recieved 'command' is then executed.
15:02.53claymoreTheir Lifespan is determined by the Caching Methodology that is employed in the ResourceCache. That methodolgy is TDB.
15:02.59claymorelol, TBD even.
15:17.28d_rossbergaha, i didn't recognized the cache object
15:19.01claymoreit makes perfect sense in my head... now the REAL project is making it make sense on paper :)
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16:21.16``Erik_takes a moment to self detonate
16:21.52Kool[a]id``Erik_: LOL
16:21.54claymore``Erik_: How ya feeling?
16:22.01``Erik_aplosive
16:22.20``Erik_much better, still a deep cough, but I think it's residual
16:22.26``Erik_hungry
16:22.27``Erik_:D
16:22.32claymorelol car just for ``Erik_ :  http://icanhascheezburger.com/2007/10/31/leeeeeeeeeroy1/
16:22.36claymorecar = cat
16:22.50``Erik_LEEEERRROOOOYYYY jenkins!
16:23.09``Erik_that was an effin' hilarious video
16:23.27claymorestill nearly pees himself laughing at that vid.
16:26.05claymorebrings back some very norrid EverCrack memories......
16:26.06``Erik_I was up at 4 this morning (fell asleep on the couch early last night), logged into that stupid game, but just wasn't feeling it :/ even after spending $70 on the 'collectors edition' update
16:26.33claymorethat Frozen Lich King exp pack thingy?
16:26.43``Erik_I think I spent more time arguing with strangers than playing... I'm very internet special olympics like that
16:26.44``Erik_yes
16:27.30``Erik_http://www.ifilmdb.com/Crunchyroll/Pictures/ArguingOnTheInternet-Special%20Olympics.jpg
17:18.30CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33237 10/jbrlcad/trunk/ (.classpath .project): Deleted .classpath and .project since they are IDE/Computer specific files and shouldn't really be in the Repository.
17:28.53CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33238 10/jbrlcad/trunk/: Added .classpath and .project files to the svn:ignore property of the root directory.
17:45.16CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33239 10/rt^3/trunk/src/iBME/ (87 files in 8 dirs): Updated Architecture to reflect object References and Pointers instead of 'pass by value' where applicable. Generated new UML images.
19:01.20*** join/#brlcad marko1 (n=mark@cpe-74-72-195-92.nyc.res.rr.com)
19:01.43marko1there IS an IRC for BRL CAD!
19:02.51marko1is anyone there?
19:04.03marko1is it possible to apply transforms and rotations of a region as a whole?
19:04.28marko1looks like arced is the command to use
19:04.44marko1can't get it working
19:11.40mafmthere is, but sometimes everybody is... erm... sleeping? :)
19:12.01marko1it's the oed command
19:12.10marko1reading the oed tutorial
19:12.11marko1now
19:22.43marko1do you HAVE to B before you enter oed?
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19:59.50marko1mafm: so I got the basic oed moves down
19:59.59marko1now I'm trying to use them from command line
20:00.04marko1mged -c style
20:00.59marko1I keep getting
20:00.59marko1no solids in view
20:00.59marko1Unable to do <Object Translation> from VIEWING state.
20:01.00marko1Expecting OBJ EDIT state.
20:01.00marko1no solids in view
20:01.00marko1Unable to do <Object Translation> from VIEWING state.
20:01.01marko1Expecting OBJ EDIT state.
20:04.16marko1NM
20:04.20marko1got it
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20:33.12claymoreSorry!  Many of us have been off inmeeting land.
20:33.29marko1I sorta got it
20:33.52marko1but now it seems like it's only moving the right hand solid
20:33.57claymoreproblems with the OED command?
20:33.59marko1not the whole regoion
20:34.11marko1yeah
20:34.44claymorecheck this and see if it helps:  http://brlcad.org/w/images/3/36/Object_Editing_-_the_oed_Command.pdf
20:34.49marko1ha
20:34.54marko1reading that now
20:35.20marko1does oed behave differently for combinations vs regions
20:35.43claymoreA simple way to think about oed is that there is a path from root to solid for every solid
20:35.51claymoremarko1: No it shouldn't...
20:35.56marko1k
20:36.38claymoreif you take that full path and split it in two halves, that split will represent the editing point and everything from that split on down to the solid will be affected (all branches of the tree)
20:36.52marko1whoa
20:37.03marko1let me read that 3 more times
20:37.14marko1ah
20:37.18marko1I think I see
20:37.21marko1let me try
20:37.41claymorethink of it like your arm:  shoulder/upperarm/elbow/lowerarm/wrist/hand.s
20:37.52claymore(pardon the horrid spelling)
20:38.18claymoreif you:  mged>oed /shoulder/upperarm/ elbow/lowerarm/wrist/hand.s
20:38.58claymorethen you are editing the 'elbow' and lowerarm, wrist, and hand.s will all be affected (as will all the fingers, but i didnt want to go to THAT level of complexity)
20:39.04marko1what if you wanted to move the shoulder
20:39.35claymoretry mged>oed / shoulder/upperarm/elbow/lowerarm/wrist/hand.s
20:39.48claymorenote the single slash that indicates 'root' or 'toplevel'
20:39.57marko1bingo!
20:39.59marko1got it
20:40.09claymoreexcellent!
20:40.15marko1claymore: very helpful
20:40.24marko1subtle thing
20:40.30marko1hard to get from docs
20:40.47claymorebrlcad is wickedly powerful... and wickedly hard to learn :)
20:41.08marko1I'm using ruby to emit mged commands
20:41.10marko1it's great
20:41.42CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33240 10/rt^3/trunk/src/iBME/docs/ (BME.eap GeometryEngine_UML.png): Updated Architecture to reflect a new more object References and Pointers instead of 'pass by value' where applicable. Generated new UML images.
20:42.22claymoreusing mged classic mode?
20:45.55CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33241 10/rt^3/trunk/: IDE specific svn:ignore .project and .cproject
20:46.41claymoregreat.  snow on the way home :/
20:46.48claymorewelp, see yall later.
21:11.25marko1is there a way to force order of operations?
21:11.30marko1seems parens don't work
21:11.54marko1r bobbin_solid u (support_plate  u bobbin_torus + bobbin_half) - bobbin_negativ
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21:32.25brlcadmarko1: yes there is, but it'll take a sec to explain and I gotta run :)
21:33.39marko1ok
21:34.04marko1one word clue?
21:34.10marko1maybe I can look itup
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22:22.04brlcadmarko1: the order of operations is that of a stack of operations so you can apply the operations in iteration
22:22.47brlcadto do what you're implying above, the easiest thing you could do is either put the paren'd section into a comb or distribute the subtraction
22:23.34brlcadc bobbin_pos u support_plate u bobbin_torus + bobbin_half  ; r bobbin_solid u bobbin_pos - bobbin_negativ
22:23.57marko1ok
22:24.04marko1that's basically what I'm doing
22:24.19brlcadotherwise: r bobbin_solid u support_plate - bobbin_negativ u bobbin_torus - bobbin_negativ + bobbin_half
22:24.25marko1just want to use parens like a normal boolean
22:25.04brlcadthere is a tool that lets you construct the boolean using parens, but it's not been tested/used in a while so I would recommend using it
22:25.05marko1constantly bumping into order of op issues
22:25.56brlcadthey're preorder operators, not infix
22:26.18brlcadyour example is a mix of pre and infix
22:27.27brlcadthat is to say that the operator applies to the word in following and the previous result to the left
22:28.22brlcadthat's why you start with a "u something" .. you union that object with the previous (null) result .. giving you "something"
22:30.15marko1ok
22:33.23brlcadnot the best explanation, but sticking stuff in combinations usually makes things simpler to understand regardless, even if you have to make a few extra combinations :)
22:35.38brlcadmarko1: also to answer your earlier question -- no you don't have to B before running oed -- B means "Blast" which means 'erase everything and draw this'
22:40.32marko1thanks!
22:40.44marko1I'm getting it bit by bit
22:42.13marko1I really like how I can scrip it into larger workflows
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081121

00:09.13*** join/#brlcad marko1 (n=mark@pool-98-116-244-145.nycmny.east.verizon.net)
00:09.44brlcadpolo1!
00:42.47CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33242 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
00:42.47CIA-62BRL-CAD: this has come up before but was revived today with a request from marko1 for
00:42.47CIA-62BRL-CAD: infix notation support. need to renew efforts at adding support that was
00:42.47CIA-62BRL-CAD: started with comb_bool_parse which added classical infix with fully
00:42.47CIA-62BRL-CAD: parenthetical expression support but was never completed/integrated.
00:47.09marko1that would be useful
00:47.50brlcadyeah, it's come up many times over the years, but it's just been pretty low-priority
00:48.08brlcadsince it only affects new users, and usually only their first couple days
00:48.58Ralithinfix notation?
00:49.03brlcadit's been implemented for like 10 years, just not integrated/tested .. the original dev didn't take it to completion and nobody else has stepped up
00:49.33brlcadRalith: yeah, for the CSG expressions when you create combinations within mged
00:49.40Ralithcan you give an example?
00:49.44Ralithisn't familiar with the term
00:49.57brlcadwhich term?
00:50.00brlcadinfix?
00:50.03Ralithyeah
00:50.13brlcadinfix is what you learned in school
00:50.18Ralithrings a bell
00:50.31brlcada + b = c .. '+' is an infix operator
00:50.39Ralithahh.
00:50.46Ralithas opposed to brl-cad's tree notation.
00:50.50brlcadopposed to doing something like "a b +" .. postfix operator or "+ a b" prefix operator
00:50.58brlcadwe use prefix
00:51.06brlcadright
00:51.09Raliththat too :P
00:51.27brlcadbecause prefix lends itself directly to the tree representation, the geometry hierarchy that results directly correlates
00:52.42brlcadit would be cool to be able to use parens with infix
00:54.21Ralithit would indeed.
00:54.33RalithI haven't done much parsing before, but wouldn't it be fairly trivial to handle?
00:54.54RalithI mean, one could probably even simply wrap the existing system
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01:10.25brlcadyeah, but it is actually nearly fully implemented already, including boolean expression optimization/rewriting
01:10.31brlcadjust not hooked into anything
01:17.13Ralithheh
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05:04.35yukonbobhello, cadheads
06:35.35*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-58-236-98.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:15.56brlcadhowdy yukonbob
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08:05.57CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33243 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/typein.c:
08:05.57CIA-62BRL-CAD: merge in all of the latest pnts changes that were made to old/previous
08:05.57CIA-62BRL-CAD: implementation but not to the libged migrated/new version. this duality
08:05.57CIA-62BRL-CAD: shouldn't survive for much longer hopefully. this hooks in all of the new point
08:05.57CIA-62BRL-CAD: functionality for normals, point-specific sizes, and more. only compile-time
08:05.58CIA-62BRL-CAD: checked.
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11:54.44AFK-claymoreMorning all.
11:57.11*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@elnet-111.lip.pt)
11:58.28claymoreMornin mafm
11:59.09mafmhi claymore
11:59.10mafmand the rest
12:13.55claymoremafm: How are things on your side of the world?
12:14.30mafmfighting with the lab to get out :(
12:14.53claymorewhoa, whats that mean?
12:40.21mafmthat I'm trying to know, after 3 weeks, when I can get out
12:40.36mafmI spent this week learning about laws because of that
12:40.52claymoreoh, your current job or school?
12:41.06mafmto know how much of holidays I can get from my 60-day leave period
12:41.09mafmcurrent job
12:42.05mafmI just went to talk with the director, and he's going to talk with my boss again... this thing never ends :)
12:42.32mafmbrb, lunch
12:43.51claymorewow just to get a holiday....
12:43.57claymoretell them I said its okay.
12:44.05claymorethat should do it :D
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12:49.24archivistbeing in a smaller company is easier, tell boss!
13:14.35mafmclaymore: probably it would be better, yes
13:16.03mafmwell, the thing is that they didn't want me to have holidays in the last period
13:16.45claymoremafm: why not?
13:16.51*** join/#brlcad marko1 (n=mark@cpe-74-72-195-92.nyc.res.rr.com)
13:17.53claymoremornin marko1 !  You up in New York City?
13:18.05mafmthey're pissed off or something, I don't really know
13:18.45marko1morning
13:18.58claymoremafm:  Hrm, well, if you are entitled to X days off per year, then you *should* be able to take them without repercussions...
13:19.07claymoreunless your managers suck.
13:19.36archivistsome companies have rules for holidays but you should be told before joining
13:21.34mafmyes, that's the point
13:21.56mafmso I elaborated a document about that, and now nobody wants to read it telling that it's not their responsibility/area
13:22.20mafmnot even my boss, who is affected somewhat by the fact that I don't have to work for much longer that he expected
13:22.40mafmand who insisted in me staying until christmas
13:22.56mafmso well, I don't really know if everybody is becoming crazy or what :D
13:23.23claymoreso you are leaving the company and they asked you to stay on till Christmas, but now are telling you you can't have time off?
13:23.30mafm(I never had problems before and never thought that I would have to do this kind of thing, but apparently they're really pissed off)
13:23.36mafmyes
13:23.45mafmbasically I wouldn't work in all december
13:24.28archivistthey should offer moneyz!
13:24.29mafmmy initial proposal was to work until 12th or so (friday), but they insisted, so I counted all days and I wouldn't have to work in all december really
13:24.31claymoreWhen you leave the company, do they reimburse your for accrued Timeoff that you didn't take?
13:25.19mafmwell, I just want them to tell me something... they just refuse to listen, so they basically don't tell me anything
13:26.07mafmthat's why I went to talk with the head of the lab, so he (hopefully) fix things top-to-bottom
13:26.19claymoremafm: i only ask that last question because, if they don't have to reimburse you for unused time off, then its in their best interests to get the most work out of you they can.  Its a crappy way to treat employees, but it happens a lot.
13:26.29archivistyou have rights!, see your company agreement and your countries employment laws
13:27.33mafmyes, that's what I've been doing in the past few days :)
13:27.34claymorearchivist is correct.  even if no one at your workplace will listen to your complaints, there is always someone higher that will.  The higher you go, the more painful it becomes for your boss ;)
13:27.58claymoremarko1: you get all your questions with brlcad sorted out yesterday?
13:28.03mafmand yes, I think that my boss talking to the head of the lab is gonig to prove efective :D
13:28.22mafmor the head of the lab talking to my boss, either way
13:29.16mafmstrange thing is that we never had problems before and we had very good relations, so I don't really understand why this happens :(
13:29.21claymorewell good, at least someone has their head on straight.  
13:29.46claymoremafm: how long have you been working there?
13:29.46mafm2 years and 3 months
13:29.46archivistboss here needs educating in UK employment law
13:31.27mafmsigh :)
13:31.41mafmwell, it should be fixed within weeks anyway
13:32.14claymoreThat is strange mafm.  How did your boss take the news that you were leaving? Anger, resentful, indifferent?
13:32.28mafmthen hopefully I can finish my degree project, and then maybe I have time to work again in g3d and all these things \o/
13:33.19mafmworried, the next day resentful (I will be the only one in the lab not having free days in christmas), now he seems indifferent :D
13:35.53claymoreOkay, sounds like you have just been on the good side of a medeocre manager.  Managers that let too much emotion into their decision making process are NOT good managers at all, imo.
13:36.55claymoreNow that you have committed a personal slight against your manager, aka leaving, then they will react as an immature person might... by making yoru life harder.
13:37.13claymoreSad really.
13:37.44mafmyes, that's more or less what I think that is happening :)
13:38.12mafmhe's quite good on the technical side (albeit a bit outdated) but he's an awful manager in general
13:38.46claymoreWell, is there any incentive for you if you are give 2 weeks notice and leave when you have said you will?  aka, good recommendations to your next job?
13:39.01mafmin the sense that he micromanages when you ask some indication, he doesn't care for months when you don't, and in general he doesn't take profit of each person's abilities, which is the main point of a manager
13:40.01mafm(outdated as in... insisting that my ER diagrams are not ER, and then he repaints an older similar diagram, network relations or something like that, outdated by ER diagrams :D)
13:40.25mafmI had to give 60-days notice
13:41.00claymoreright, but whats the drawback if you dont give 60days notice and just leave?
13:41.09mafmand there are no consequences for my next job, but maybe so for future jobs (CERN...)
13:41.33mafmor even similar labs to this one
13:43.17mafmone of them is very close to my hometown, so it might be a problem, yes
13:44.13claymorewell, if there are not any drawbacks to just leaving, and your boss still won't give you the time you are due, contact your local government to see what Grievance procedures are available. ;)
13:45.05archivistquality of references for the future can be a concern
13:45.43archivistbut poor treatment while there does not bode well for references either
13:46.06mafmyes, that's why I don't want to take "severe" actions or anything
13:47.50claymoreWell then, we have different takes on things then.  I refuse to let people get away with crappy treatment of me or my immediate co-workers.  And yes, it makes waves.  But wrong is wrong.
13:47.52archivistI would never go to a previous company for a reference as they treated me poorly
13:48.54mafmyes, well, I'm defending myself, but not in a childish way
13:49.30marko1mafm: you work in physics?
13:49.39claymoreand good onya for it mafm.
13:49.46mafmso I presented the document signed, with legal references and so on, so unless they invoke strange things (like having especial periods of holidays, that we don't really have, etc) they can't do much
13:50.18archivistits a choice, I have been informed here about redundancy. So Im hanging on for best severance terms
13:50.28mafmbut, if they don't tell me that I agree, I still can't be sure of expecting when to live, to tell the owner of the house and so on
13:50.33mafmmarko1: yes
13:50.57mafmwhen to live->leave* :)
13:51.17marko1mafm: cool! I'm starting a physics project
13:51.24marko1http://prometheusfusionperfection.wordpress.com/
13:51.46marko1you can see the BRLCAD output
13:51.54mafmwell I'm not a physicist, I just happen to work in a physics lab
13:51.58mafmbut in the Grid area
13:52.00marko1same
13:52.43claymoremarko1: You are doing this as a hobby?
13:52.57mafmheh, nice pics
13:53.18marko1hobby, with aspirations to commercialize this technology
13:53.26marko1I'm an entrepreneur by trade
13:53.41marko1tech entrepreneur
13:54.27claymoreneat!  In my past life, I was a nuclear/electrical engineer with the Navy :)
13:54.41clock_claymore: you mean NEET?
13:55.22marko1well clearly BRLCAD is the right tool for the job if you guys are using it
13:55.33claymoreso i probably shouldnt need to remind you about power generation/radiation emitting device permits you may need lest you get in big trouble :)
13:56.01marko1well no radiation at this stage
13:56.04marko1just magnets
13:56.33marko1and the polywell is intended to run a radiation free reaction
13:56.38claymoreclock_: Are you talking about Naval Electrical Engineering Training manuals?
13:56.53marko1hydrogen + boron = 3 helium
13:56.59mafmmarko1: if you mean "you" as me and my lab, no, we don't... my relation with brlcad is something completely different (TM)
13:57.13mafmbut probably is the right tool for you, yes
13:57.32marko1yeah, I'v had success with it
13:57.40marko1I needed a command line more than a gui
13:57.46marko1so I can program my drawings
13:58.39claymoremarko1: dont forget that any medium to high energy charged particle IS radiation. e.g. bremsstrahlung
13:59.08marko1technicality!
13:59.13claymorelol
13:59.49clock_claymore: yes NEETS :)
13:59.54clock_claymore: coil winding! I love coil winding!
13:59.55``Erik_lifts a cheek and radiates some
14:00.12claymore``Erik_: pig :P
14:00.22archivistmarko1, "working on a computer controlled coil winder" what control are you using
14:00.29marko1arduino
14:00.31clock_I I needed a DIY repeatable coil with precise inductance and capacitance
14:00.41marko1I'll be opensourcing all the tech
14:00.44clock_And ended up with a form made of 3 plastic bolts tied together with cable straps
14:00.47clock_Works excellent!
14:00.47archivistmarko1, are the hard way
14:00.50archivistah
14:00.54claymoreclock_: the NEETs modules are only training manuals.  The good stuff is still all basically Non-disclosure stuff.
14:01.05clock_2.73uH and 1.2pF better then commercial coils totally stable parameters no Barkhausen nouise!
14:01.24archivistmarko1, I use EMC for cnc control, its open source
14:01.35clock_do you know Reprap?
14:01.38marko1archivist: thanks for the tip
14:01.42clock_It's a self-replicating CNC
14:01.48marko1I'm working with zach from reprap
14:01.49marko1actually
14:01.53claymorelooks at the irc channel.... My God... its full of Geeks...
14:01.53clock_lol
14:02.00marko1I'm hacking a reprap to make the coil winder
14:02.16clock_can reprap make plastic screws?
14:02.22marko1so the x axis will be the coil guide
14:02.36marko1screws are store bought
14:02.37clock_marko1: don't then need people for reprap development? :)
14:02.38archivist3 EMC people in here
14:02.55archivistat least
14:03.15clock_I hope reprap can take brl-cad source and rasterize ;-)
14:03.22marko1stl files
14:03.37clock_I don't know even if STL is open source
14:03.48claymorearchivist: EMC means Electricians Mate Chief to me... whats it mean to you? :)
14:04.00clock_ElectroMagnetic Compatibility? ;-)
14:04.05archivistEnhanced Machine Control
14:04.10alex_joniv2
14:04.20archivist:)
14:04.32clock_Is this multi-coil polyhedron put into an evacuated space?
14:04.45marko1needs a vacuum yes
14:04.56clock_I heard someone made a homemade CRT
14:05.13clock_By throwing a hose with water from a high window and since the column was >10m he got a vacuum
14:05.21clock_Maybe you use the same technique
14:05.27marko1ha!
14:05.30marko1that's funny
14:05.43clock_And he used marmelade jar for the actual electron tube
14:05.44marko1well, a good hack is always welcome
14:06.21archivistthat only gets down to the vapour pressure
14:06.29clock_I would also wonder
14:07.18clock_I always wondered what happens if you take a CRT put the tip into a bathtub full of water and then break off with pliers
14:07.32clock_And when the CRT is full of water, turn the TV set on
14:07.40clock_Maybe insert some fish and water plants...
14:07.53alex_joniclock_: might work with oil
14:08.07clock_maybe he used oil
14:08.13claymoredemineralized oil...
14:08.21clock_oil is used in vacuum pumps
14:08.35claymorehad disturbing visions of fish dying a 13kV death.....
14:08.43alex_joniI saw some oil cooling for PC's once..
14:08.53alex_jonifully submerged in oil.. no fans or anything
14:08.55clock_Recently I used a skateboard oil to fix my vice
14:09.00marko1brb
14:09.12alex_jonihttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtufuXLvOok
14:10.11clock_When I mentioned the skateboard
14:10.18clock_We already had a man walking on the moon
14:10.27claymorealex_joni: Any fluid suffieciently de-ionized to prevent conductivity can be used as a coolant that can be in direct contact with electronics.
14:10.31clock_But not yet riding a skateboard in a half-pipe. I think that's the next task for NASA
14:11.19claymorehad some links for some pretty wild Computer mods here somewhere....
14:11.34clock_I made a water cooling with a radiator from car
14:11.47clock_sometimes the CPU core temperature was less than room temperature
14:12.03claymorewell thats dangerous now isn't it clock_ :P
14:12.38clock_I don't see a reason why a radiator from car should be dangerous
14:13.53claymoredropping the cpu temperature below room temp will make any moisture present start to condense ON the CPU first if the relative humidity reaches a certain point.
14:14.06clock_if BRL-CAD can calculate weight, can it also calculate inductance?
14:14.37clock_well it was only few degress. Caused by the fact the radiator was under the window and the window was open. THe colder air was flowing at the radiator.
14:14.38claymoreclock_: You'd have to script it, but yeah, it should
14:14.56clock_I wonder if it need finite element method.
14:16.04claymoreclock_: I have a simple design using a two stage water cooled system connected via peltier coolers to 'simulate' a refrigeration cycle in a computer... haven't put it to practice though.
14:16.43claymoreInefficiant as anything, but I bet it would get that cpu pretty damned cold :)
14:16.51claymoreis having a horrid spelling day.
14:17.08archivistclaymore, look at the Elecrolux cycle
14:17.19clock_I thought about refrigerating my LED with liquid nirogen
14:17.28clock_It should increase the light efficiency tremendously.
14:19.32alex_jonifor how long?
14:19.41claymorearchivist: Right, standard Absorption-cycle refers.  There are many of them installed at American University in Washington DC.  Spent many a days working on those horrid things...
14:20.52claymorethe point of my using peltier coolers was to remove any dangerous gasses from my cooling cycle... r114, amonia, etc.
14:21.10clock_new fridges have butan gas
14:21.27clock_it's only flammable
14:21.36clock_Maybe it's even put into cigarette lighter
14:23.20claymoreclock_: having a flammable gas inside of a PC wont sit well with most users :)
14:23.55clock_overclockers can literally get their CPU on fire
14:24.13alex_jonithey did that even before (without gas)
14:24.34claymoreonly because they couldn't remove the heat fast enough :)
14:24.38clock_there are youtube videos showing people putting very large gas tanks into fire and then shooting them with a gun
14:24.42clock_a lot of fun to watch
14:25.12archivistclaymore, yup, use power supply waste heat to cool the cpu
14:25.36claymoreclock_: thats called Darwinism: http://www.darwinawards.com/
14:25.39clock_if i understand it correctly absorption cooler runs off heat
14:25.53archivistclock_, yes
14:26.15clock_Indeed, once the gas tank went airborne and flew horizntally, rotating wildly and spewing flames
14:26.17claymoreand has amonia in it ;)  amonia + proximity to electronics = large potential for badness
14:26.26alex_joniclaymore: unfortunately, they don't usually qualify for darwin awards :/
14:28.10*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:31.51brlcadmarko1: that's pretty awesome, love the use
14:33.44brlcadd_rossberg: I'll reply to the list, but I think you're spot on for the characterization
14:34.51brlcadthe service is higher-level, network-centric, command and action focused .. and intentionally built on top of existing facilities
14:35.46brlcadwhereas the geometry engine is much lower-level with what you've been working on being an OO layer that sits right on top of the core functionality
14:36.27d_rossbergi think the point is that the Geometry Engine wants to preserve the command line interface (?)
14:36.43brlcadthere is presently some design overlap that has to be resolved with regards to the geometry engine itself, but I do see that as a distinct "product" as well as the geometry service being another different "product"
14:36.55claymored_rossberg: not really.
14:37.37claymored_rossberg: but, in order to bring functionality online as quickly as possible, we are going to use libged initially since a lot of the work was done there.
14:37.41brlcadit might provide hooks to functionality that's in LIBGED but I don't think that's the goal in the least .. if it does that, it's probably/mostly just because that code for whatever action is only/already available there
14:37.54claymored_rossberg: Just sent a reply to your email
14:43.20d_rossbergmy consideration was: if you have a GUI on top of the Geometry Engine and this GUI has a command line interface it would be a design consideration to use libged via the Geomatry Engine
14:43.58brlcadd_rossberg: are you saying that's a bad thing or a good thing? :)
14:44.27d_rossbergin this case it would be a good thing
14:45.00d_rossbergand what i want to say is: the design depends on the application
14:45.11claymored_rossberg: GUI developement will be independant of the GS and GE development.  GUI will also be abstract and will conform to a Communcations API.
14:45.32d_rossbergif i don't know the application i can not assess the design
14:46.05claymorethe GS will also Conform to this Communications API and thus a GUI and a GS will be able to communicate abstract of how the GS internals are doing their work.
14:47.41claymorelibged was designed the way it was in order to greatly organize how the current BRL-CAD accesses the libraries.  libged development has/had nothing to do with iBME,GS oe GE... we are just going to use it for the time being :)
14:48.21brlcadrather, how *MGED* accesses the libraries, and to make it a lot easier to other/new guis to get at that same editing functionality
14:49.24claymorebrlcad:  good catch;)  Thanks.  Bouncing between computers is taking its toll on me lol.
14:49.58d_rossbergclaymore: i recommend to develop GE, GS and the GUI together (similar to libged which was developed with mged and TCL as brlcad said)
14:50.14brlcadclaymore: actually we're going to have a little bit of crosstalk perhaps but LIBGED does have quite a bit to do with the GE (not so much the design, though, as the intent) .. all of this refactoring is moving us towards a new/better GUI
14:50.47brlcadd_rossberg: what do you mean by develop them together?
14:51.21brlcadI know that I at least have a strong preference for each of those to act as stand-alone products so that the interfaces and responsibilities between them are well-defined
14:51.45claymorebrlcad:  On board with that.  However, if we are going to code an OO layer ontop of libged in order to remove the command line like accessability... wouldn't just making an OO layer that access the underlying libs directly (instead of going through libged) be faster?
14:52.21brlcadthe GE really compares to that of the likes of ACIS, Granite, OpenCASCADE, etc as being an OO engine on top of our geometry
14:52.51brlcadthe GS sits on top of that providing access controls and acts as a network service
14:53.08brlcada GUI can be tied directly to GE or to the GS then, with different implications and tradeoffs
14:53.24brlcadclaymore: absolutely
14:54.57claymorebrlcad and d_rossberg :  I will get more pictures and documentation up on the wiki.  Sometimes text just doesn't make for easy explainations :)
14:55.05brlcadthough the first half of what you said gives me pause -- "in order to remove the command line like accessability" .. the GE could retain a "run this command" api call that passes through to LIBGED even if it were otherwise decoupled from it
14:56.03d_rossbergbrlcad: i don't think it is a good idea to develop the interface and see if a gui can be build on this afterwards
14:56.09brlcadsure, though sometimes pictures and documentation just add extra questions and confusion too and discussion will still have to occur ;)
14:56.29brlcadd_rossberg: they're occurring concurrently
14:57.45brlcadand at worse - LIBGED is exactly what MGED presently uses so if the GE uses it, it really shouldn't be any worse off than where MGED presently is yet provides all of the existing functionality
14:57.46claymorebrlcad:  Okay, I am defining 'command line like' accessability as each function in libged takes the standard 'int argc, const char *argv[]'  which would be a major speed hit to do all that string parsing...
14:58.11clock_what is good on CSG is that it mimics the tooling process
14:58.20clock_drilling is ubtraction on a cylinder
14:58.28clock_cylindrical grinding is an AND with a cylinder
14:58.37clock_flat grinding is an AND with a halfspace or cube
14:58.57clock_and the basic shapes come from rolled stock foundry
14:59.16brlcadit depends where/how to characterize that it's a major speed hit -- it's what mged does now and it's frankly a non-issue as the time is mostly spent processing geometry, not in strings
14:59.21d_rossbergclaymore: you should describe some applications in the wiki, the effort is much to high to write only a GUI
14:59.51claymoreand if we write a OO layer ontop of libged then we could easily find ourselves taking a cmdline input into GE, parsing it into an object, applying it to the OO layer on libged, converting backinto a string, passing it to libged which then has to pasrse it again.  
15:00.04claymorethats my concern... sorry if I worded it poorly :)
15:00.23claymored_rossberg: 'some applications'.... of what?
15:00.34brlcadd_rossberg: the first/main application I'd planned all along is a new modeling GUI that can eventually replace mged -- starting out with visualization capabilities for starters, then adding searching capabilities, then adding editing capabilities
15:01.37brlcadclaymore: well yeah, that could potentially suck -- but that's just a bad way to go about it regardless
15:01.38d_rossbergclaymore: GE and GS
15:02.44brlcadd_rossberg: your viewer is an ideal application use
15:03.00claymored_rossberg: simply put  GE is the library that wraps up all of brlcad's current capability and provides a single interface to all the functionality.
15:03.04brlcadsitting on top of the GE or the GS (but not using any of GED)
15:03.46claymored_rossberg: GS is an actual executable that incorporates the GE, but adds Session managing, network capabilities, access controls, etc.
15:03.49brlcad(save for maybe as temporary back-end implementation detail in GE for the short-term)
15:04.26brlcadd_rossberg: what would you like to see different?
15:04.37brlcador is this all not making sense yet :)
15:04.57claymored_rossberg: and a GUI is a standalone application that accessess a GS and provides a means for user input, visualization, editing, etc.
15:05.53brlcadnotes that the overall design of having these "three kings" working together hasn't really changed in the 7 years it's been under planning .. just new names here and there :)
15:06.49claymorevoted for Project Hamburgler, but was shot down :(
15:06.58brlcadjust has a lot more detail now that bob has kicked off libged, mafm has the start of a prototype, and claymore has dived head first into the gs and documenting the whole thing up :)
15:07.20d_rossbergi don't want to change it, i want to understand it
15:07.44brlcadi want you to understand it too (and love it!) :)
15:07.51d_rossberge.g.: why is the gui on top of GS and not on top of GE?
15:08.48brlcada gui can be developed on top of either, but that was my doing a long time ago as a means to strongly decouple the interface from the control
15:09.06claymored_rossberg: to answer that e.g., the GE doesn't have any network capability, so if someone build a gui ontop of JUST the GE (which they could) then their final application wouldn't automatically have interconnectability to other GS's
15:09.08brlcadspecific to the new modeler interface too as the primary customer
15:10.25claymored_rossberg: The GUI is really ment to be a 'smart terminal' or 'thin client' that communicates with the GS (and thus the GE).  The GS and GE are doing all the work and informing the GUI of the results.
15:11.29brlcadhaving it be network-centric also means that it can be compiled to use local unix sockets and shared memory for high performance communication if needed, but then allows much higher-level collaboration for teams of modelers (or even a single modeler to our own centralized public repository that all public clients will have access to ala wikipedia)
15:11.49claymored_rossberg: The major difference between other apps and this design is that the communication between GUI and GS is abstracted to a point where the communcation can occur over various mediums.  ( I personally see network sockets being the most prevalent)
15:12.43claymored_rossberg: this allows a GS to be running on a massive multicpu machine off in 'ServerLand' while the gui runs on a standard PC on your desk.
15:12.47brlcadprobably network sockets and unix sockets only, I can't see us really using anything else
15:13.16claymored_rossberg: or they can be running on the same machine if you want.  Its flexible that way.
15:13.33claymorebrlcad: True, but its nice to have extensibility :)
15:14.21brlcadunless it makes the infrastructure more complicated and is more to maintain :)
15:14.35brlcadtbd
15:15.09brlcadfyi, I reworded a fair bit on the iBME page
15:15.17brlcads/fair/minor/
15:15.32claymorebrlcad: Pffft.  We will provide the two basic portals of UnixSockets and NetSockets.  If someone else wants to extend in to other mediums... thats there bag not ours :)
15:15.34brlcadyou can subscribe to rss events if you want to see changes of others as they occur too
15:15.48claymorehow DARE you touch the public wiki!
15:16.10d_rossbergok, the intended application is a client-server-infrastructure where the computations are done on a multi CPU server and the users sits in front of his desktop PC with a thin client program
15:16.53claymored_rossberg: that is true, but the other intent is to have both client and server able to run on the same machine.
15:16.59brlcadd_rossberg: also where the computations are done locally on a multi CPU workstation and the users sits in front of his desktop PC with his thin client talking to his own backend
15:17.04archivistnot that thin please /me wants nice pics not wireframes
15:17.19brlcadarchivist: nah, there will be shaded displays
15:17.26brlcadthat's part of the BREP/NURBS effort
15:19.00brlcadd_rossberg: if you want some high-level vision-speak -- I documented how much of this ties together for the project as a whole at: http://brlcad.org/BRL-CAD_Priorities.png
15:19.17claymorebrlcad:  Your Engrish-foo is more than mine, plus I am typing really fast... so fixing up my dumb dumb errors is greatly appriciated!
15:19.45brlcadit's all very high-level and hand-wavy, but it hopefully describes the four main areas and their intent
15:20.18brlcadPDF of the same document, though the font renders like crap if you don't have it:  http://brlcad.org/BRL-CAD_Priorities.pdf
15:21.06claymoreis impressed with brlcad's graphic design!
15:21.08brlcadand you'll just have to "deal" with the layout.. if you can't figure it out, it's reader failure! ;)
15:21.09claymorepurty
16:08.57brlcadthinks "Resource" should probably be "Object" or "DatabaseObject" to not introduce new terms
16:09.24brlcadresource also implies limited availability
16:09.27brlcadwhich they're not
16:10.13brlcadmy hard drive is a resource, my CPU is a resource..
16:10.29claymoreI am strongly opposed to 'object' since that would really conuse people during OO design discussions.  DBObject is agreeable.
16:10.43claymoreconuse == confuse
16:12.01claymore'resource' came from having to abstract away from the OS Filesystem and a BrlCad DB Filesystem... needed a way to describe combs, regions, solids AND directories and .g files....
16:12.21claymorenow thats fixed, DBObject is probably better ;)
16:12.50brlcadI know it's a bikeshed issue, but I'd also really think we should avoid shortening names for clarity as that's often what makes the API inpenetrable for new developers trying to grok the terminology
16:13.27brlcadwe should all be using tab-completion editors anyways where the typing aspect is moot :)
16:13.58brlcadalso jives with what daniel has going, http://brlcad.org/wiki/BRL-CAD%27s_core_C%2B%2B_interface
16:14.09claymoreheh, Enterprise Architect doesn't have Tab-completion :(
16:14.20claymoregood thing I am just about done with it.
16:14.25brlcadyou only type it once there :)
16:14.49CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33244 10/brlcad/trunk/: IDE specific svn:ignore .project and .cproject
16:14.50brlcadyou think you're done
16:15.00brlcadwaterfall design rarely ever works .. :)
16:15.32brlcadthings will get renamed a LOT once it's in SVN if it's at all successful and there is more than one deve poking on it
16:15.42claymoreoh no... i'm f-ing done with it alright!
16:15.47brlcadhehe
16:15.48claymoretosses it out the window.
16:16.08brlcadprepares to go close on that thing he bought
16:16.21claymorecongrats again!
16:16.32claymorewhens the move in party? >8-)
16:16.54brlcadmoving in tonight :)
16:17.04brlcadhousewarming party tbd after furniture is in place
16:17.35CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33245 10/rt^3/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): copying or assigning an object now means to lose the direct connection to the database because this connection can be invalid when the copy will be used
16:18.13brlcadd_rossberg: interesting -- does that turn it into an in-mem or something?
16:18.20claymoreWell, the moving heavy stuff slave labor offer is still in place if you need it.
16:18.28brlcadhugs CIA-62
16:18.29CIA-62hugs brlcad
16:19.45brlcadclaymore: cool -- I frankly don't know if I'll need it or how long it'll all take; if you're interested, I'll be meeting jason up at my storage units around 5pm today over in abingdon
16:20.05d_rossbergyes, the object (ant its derived classes) should be able to store all the values in the object
16:20.22d_rossberglook at m_name in Object for example
16:20.27brlcadd_rossberg: that's a damn creative use of the inmems .. neat :)
16:20.44claymorebrlcad: I'll have to check with the better half to see when Date night starts :)
16:20.54brlcadclaymore: okay, cool
16:21.08d_rossbergm_name will only be touched if there is no connection to a database
16:21.52brlcadclaymore: see, he used Object :P
16:21.56brlcadgrins
16:22.57brlcadclaymore: oh also if you do come, there's a follow-up invite (my treat) for you and the Mrs to dinner downtown tomorrow, late lunch probably around 2pm at the brazillian place (my treat)
16:23.41brlcadcalling in the reservation later today as soon as I know how many heads
16:24.05brlcadcounts approx 7 + 2 kids presently
16:24.37marko1brlcad: when I output with g-stl to an .STL file, how to I increase the resolution? I'm seeing large facets on my curves
16:24.50brlcadmarko1: there are tolerances that adjust that
16:25.05brlcad[-a abs_tess_tol] [-r rel_tess_tol] [-n norm_tess_tol] [-D dist_calc_tol]
16:25.10brlcadcareful there ..
16:25.47brlcadsetting the wrong value there can very easily a) fill up your hard drive b) make you run out of memory c) cause tessellation to fail due to unresolvable degeneracies
16:25.58marko1oh boy
16:26.08brlcadthe normal tolerance controls curvature
16:26.17claymorebrlcad: Tomarrow is a no-go for me.  Gotta church function all day plus the Mother-in-law is up for the weekend.  Just found out that she is coming up via my jeep, aka, I have to go to DC to get her.  lol.  Looks like I can't help you AND date night is off.
16:26.19brlcadabs is absolute computation tolerance
16:26.24brlcad(the more dangerous one)
16:26.24claymorepouts.
16:26.32marko1brlcad: this is the shape
16:26.33marko1http://prometheusfusionperfection.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/test3g.png
16:26.36marko1any suggetsions
16:26.40marko1for starting params
16:27.00brlcadclaymore: ah, shame .. the brazillian place is awesome :)
16:27.05marko1will be 500 mm across
16:27.42brlcadmarko1: just for run, run:  rtedge -s1024
16:27.53brlcads/run,/fun,/
16:28.21marko1k
16:28.26claymorebrlcad: sounds it.  especially if the waitresses are... oh wait.  stop that train of thought ;)
16:28.34marko1I see the man page
16:28.35brlcadmarko1: as for starting params, hell .. I'd just try something and see how bad/good it is, then go up/down as needed :)
16:29.03brlcada and b aren't likely .. just a scare tactic to make you be aware that you have raw control on the tolerances :)
16:29.22brlcadc is the most likely if you go too coarse or fine
16:30.53marko1brlcad: are those options applied against the g-stl command?
16:31.12brlcadwhich ?
16:31.26brlcadthe -a -r -n -D ? yes
16:31.35brlcadthe rtedge thing was not
16:31.43marko1I don't see rtedge in the docs
16:32.14brlcaddid you run it?
16:32.36brlcadpromises it won't do anything bad
16:33.41marko1brlcad: of cool!
16:34.10marko1brlcad: it made an ouline
16:34.32brlcad:)
16:34.57marko1brlcad: so it's an outline, what is this?
16:35.05brlcadthere are ways of layering the hidden-line rendering with the rt rendering too -- rtwizard tries to make it easier
16:35.10brlcadjust a different visualization
16:35.17brlcadrtedge generates hidden line renderings
16:36.06marko1brlcad: how is this useful for tuning my STL output?
16:36.26brlcadmarko1: not in the least bit useful for that -- just thought you might like to see it :)
16:37.00brlcaddiscovering capabilities on your own or through docs can be daunting
16:37.05marko1brlcad: it is cool!
16:37.16marko1brlcad: perfect for a t-shirt
16:37.51brlcadas for the tolerances, I'd say try -n 1 and see what it does .. if it's too coarse or doesn't seem to change, try 0.1, then 0.01, then 0.001 etc .. or go in the opposite direction
16:38.55marko1brlcad: ok, I'll try that...
16:39.08brlcadiirc, the default absolute and distance tolerance is 0.005
16:39.37brlcadsince your model is pretty uniform, you can probably savely get away with changing just the abs tolerance to 0.0001 or something similar
16:40.09brlcadit'll be a little trial-and-error but you'll see the number of polygons go up/down as you tweak values
16:40.21brlcadgives you a gauge for how detailed to go
16:40.22marko1brlcad: how can I "see" the result
16:40.28marko1I get stl files
16:40.34marko1but I can't "see" them
16:40.46brlcadah, you don't have an stl viewer?
16:40.49marko1no
16:40.55marko1recommendation?
16:40.57brlcadrun stl-g
16:40.59brlcad:)
16:42.10brlcadstl-g to a new file, run rt on the command line (outside of mged) to view the object (it should be named all or something similar, mged -c newstl.g tops)
16:43.04marko1k
16:43.18marko1brlcad: this is fantastic help BTW,
16:48.02claymorelikes snow :)
16:52.31claymoreis OTL.
16:54.54brlcadmarko1: glad to be of assistance, cool project
16:56.12brlcadmind if I share your project to the mailing list?
17:05.42marko1brlcad: go for it
17:18.56marko1whoa, that totally locked up my computer
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17:25.44marko1damn
17:25.50marko1had to hard restart
17:32.23marko1brlcad:that kills my memory
17:33.08marko1also seeing this
17:35.26marko1WARNING: tesselation tolerance is 0.001000mm while calculational tolerance is 0.005000mm
17:35.26marko1Cannot tesselate a TGC to finer tolerance than the calculational tolerance
17:35.49marko1I get the meaning, how do I adjust calc tolerances
17:35.56marko1is that specific to BD
17:36.00marko1or rendering
17:39.17marko1tol command
17:59.25marko1brlcad: I'm at a loss, can't seem set the tolorance so
18:00.07marko1I think is see ...
18:00.58marko1got it
18:02.46marko1ha
18:02.46marko1do you guys use the cloud for your rendering
18:10.25mafmbye
19:15.49marko1brlcad: is there a way to go from STIL to PNG in one step
19:19.44marko1nm
19:19.46marko1got it
19:33.06marko1g-stl takes forever
19:33.39OTL-claymoresure does.  :) any thing having to do with tesselation in brlcad is prone to heavy cpu use and long run times :)
19:43.21marko1can that be optomised for gpu
19:43.54marko1can it be parallelized easily?
19:44.09claymoreits an area of brlcad that need a lot of work.
19:45.05marko1i see
19:50.23marko1has anyone setup a EC2 render farm?
20:03.15claymorenot I
20:05.11CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33246 10/rt^3/trunk/src/iBME/docs/ (4 files): Updated Architecture to contain more sensible names. Generated new UML images. Updated wiki documentation at http://brlcad.org/wiki/IBME_Main
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23:19.08*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.0 is now posted (20081108)
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23:53.32RalithI may have asked this before, but
23:53.56Ralithdoes brl-cad incorporate any sort of utility to go from valid closed mesh (e.g. BoT) to solid volume?
23:56.17``Erik_there was an experiment to attempt that, uhm, 'beset'
23:59.35Ralithit's buggy?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081122

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081122

00:20.40starseekerreturns from national archives
00:21.07starseekerno Mark VIII yet, but more info
00:21.24RalithMark VIII?
00:22.19starseekerWWI tank
00:22.24Ralithooo, neat
00:22.29Raliththat's what you've been trying to model?
00:22.30starseekera.k.a the "Liberty" or "International"
00:22.39starseekernot yet - trying to find source info on
00:22.53Ralithwith the ultimate goal of modeling?
00:23.25starseekeryep
00:23.31Ralithneat
00:23.32Ralithwhat for?
00:24.14starseekerprimarily as an exercise and a way to stress the tools, while at the same time being able to use it to produce documentation that can be (eventually) public release
00:24.41Ralitheventually? is there a particular reason for it to take a while? O.o
00:24.53starseekerever try writing documentation?
00:25.11starseekerand then getting it by brlcad's editorial review plus public release procedures? :-P
00:25.11RalithI mean
00:25.15Ralithahh.
00:25.19Ralith*formal* documentation.
00:25.38Ralithis used to thinking of documentation as a casual thing.
00:25.56starseekergets warm fuzzies thinking about a nice 500 page book on modeling with BRL-CAD, lots of nice pictures and detailed technique discussion
00:26.34starseekerand just for fun an appendix with blueprint-style views of every part and vehicle assembly diagrams
00:26.39archivist500 page! shouldnt be that hard to use :)
00:26.58starseekerAny CAD system will need that and more, if it's non-trivial
00:27.31Ralithsure.
00:27.33starseekeradmits BRL-CAD's doc/work ratio is set a tad above average
00:27.40Ralithbut casual documentation is still useful.
00:27.45starseekerbut that's what the new modeler is for :-)
00:27.49starseekerRalith:  sure
00:28.37Ralithmakes sense that brl-cad does have a particularly great need for the formal, though.
00:28.42Ralithespecially given its use cases.
00:30.12starseekerThere's good reason for a variety of levels of documentation - I tend to prefer to go detailed, on the theory that it's better to have something documented and not need it than to have it not documented and need it.  That requires great disicipline when it comes to organization and clarity though, or it's just another big pile of paper
00:30.47starseekergawks at scrollback length
00:31.24RalithI interpreted 'public release' as meaning 'availability to the public at some point after its completion'
00:31.54starseekerright
00:32.13Ralithrather than 'publishing it when it's done'
00:32.37Raliththough I do think there's no harm in making incomplete versions available.
00:32.56Ralithidentified as such, of course.
00:32.59starseekerRalith:  depends on how it's done
00:33.04Ralith?
00:33.30starseekerusually when I'm doing something for the Army as a contractor in the documentation department, it gets done before it goes out
00:34.07Ralithbut is that a requirement, or simply the way things tend to happen?
00:34.26Ralithbrl-cad's open source nature suggests treating docs in a similar way to code
00:34.54starseekerWell, docs kind of have a dual nature - if you look at the .bib file, you'll see some Technical Reports listed
00:36.30starseekerThings with ARL-TR-**** numbers
00:36.42starseekerOK, one right now - I need to add more
00:36.58starseekeranyway, those are official army publications and as such have to go through a review process
00:37.56starseekerBut many of them also contain useful documentation on aspects of BRL-CAD
00:38.18starseekerOf course, docs done strictly on the open source side do not have such constraints
00:39.31Ralithanyway, good luck!
00:39.41Ralithdocs are never a bad idea, however long the process.
00:39.46starseekerRalith:  The other problem, particularly with my style of documentation, is that I can write a lot of stuff and then have it go out of date
00:39.57starseekerthanks :-)
00:40.18Raliththis doesn't strike me as a project which tends to change too drastically over time, though
00:40.30starseekernot yet :-)
00:40.30Ralithat least, not in unexpected ways
00:40.50Ralithhm? development ramping up?
00:40.53starseekerIf we do move to an OGRE based GUI, that'll change a LOT of things
00:40.58Ralithah yeah, that
00:41.04starseekeris thinking of VolII and VolIII
00:41.18Ralithbut that will not necessarily obselete mged!
00:42.14starseekerMGED will likely become more of a "minimalist" tool
00:42.24starseekeralthough brlcad will ultimately call such shots
00:43.27starseekerI do agree though that the body of work poured into things like MGED and Archer will likely be preserved in some form
00:43.37RalithArcher?
00:44.03starseekerum.  Prototype viewer in Tcl/Tk, somewhat more modern feel
00:44.07Ralithah.
00:44.22starseekerTry archer on the command line, if you have a recent BRL-CAD it should come up
00:44.34starseekerMGED has most of the useful features right now though
00:44.45Ralithis on the wrong system at the moment
00:44.48yukonbobhowdy, cadheads
00:44.58starseekeryukonbob:  howdy :-)
00:45.12louipcdoes archer work in linux now?
00:45.26Raliththere was a point at which it didn't?
00:45.44louipcwhenever I tried it hah
00:45.53Raliththat doesn't mean it doesn't work in linux
00:45.59Ralithjust not on your setup
00:46.15starseekerum, it just segfaulted for me
00:46.19starseekerso apparently not
00:46.23RalithO.o
00:46.25Ralithweird
00:46.26louipcI don't think it worked on anyone's setup
00:46.29Ralithwhat was it developed on?
00:46.44louipcit just opened a little grey box for me
00:47.23starseekerjust crashed for me when I tried to open a file
00:47.38louipcactually that's what the tkhtml3 help does if I use a non bundled tkhtml3 :/
00:48.29starseekerlouipc:  really?
00:48.31starseekerwhat's the error?
00:49.56louipcI don't remember really
00:50.25starseekerhasn't tested nonbundled anything in a while
00:50.28louipcbut the build system isn't really set up to detect and use system tkhtml3 either
00:50.36starseekerno, it isnt
00:50.52louipcI only added the --enable-tkhtml3 so I could disable it... and test or something :D
00:51.29louipchah I thought the goal was to use all non-bundled libs for gentoo eh?
00:51.31starseekerI did include the latest trunk tkhtml3, so that might be an issue
00:51.42starseekerlouipc:  I'm still a little soured on that whole thing
00:51.43louipcoh
00:52.02louipcI have alpha16
00:52.09starseekerah
00:52.24starseekerhasn't tested that
00:54.10archiviststarseeker, http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=82NKvZQ-9W8
00:56.40starseekercool :-)
00:56.48starseekermust go to gym, bbl
00:57.47louipcnice
01:20.51``Erik_archivist, put your little willy away.
01:21.14archivist:)
01:22.30archivistwas searching for the Bullock Creeping Grip
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02:01.52punkrockgirlhi guys
02:01.54punkrockgirlim djing
02:02.02punkrockgirlif you wanna hear
02:02.09punkrockgirlwww.troubleradio.net
02:03.03Ralithpunkrockgirl, you have a popup (bad) that goes to a 404 page (worse)
02:03.05Ralith:P
02:20.01punkrockgirli do?
02:20.04punkrockgirlits not my site
02:20.06punkrockgirl:(
02:20.12punkrockgirlbut dont click on popups
02:20.30punkrockgirlmy computer blocks them so i didnt know that
02:26.28Ralithit is a site you are associated with
02:31.57louipcmake your own site! :D
02:33.05Ralithno u
02:34.28louipcI have one
02:34.39louipcbut I don't have anything to put on it
03:20.56punkrockgirloh i guess i could
03:21.00punkrockgirlbut i dj on that guys thingy
03:21.04punkrockgirlso i use his
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05:36.06starseekeryuck
05:36.30starseeker's attempt at putting together drawing images is a failure
05:46.59starseekergrr
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22:39.45Ralithbrlcad: is there a reason burst doesn't seem to use vmath.h (insofar as gridrotate.c and idents.c are concerned, anyway)?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081123

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081123

00:00.14starseekerHmm - the copies did somewhat better, but whether it was the copy or the scan it looks like there was even then a little distortion on a couple of them
00:00.16starseekerAh, well
00:02.03starseekermust once again give props to netpbm
05:00.25brlcadRalith: because gary was constantly reinventing the wheel
05:00.47brlcadthere's no reason gridrotate shouldn't use vmath.h
05:00.47starseekerAh, there we go:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/National_Archives/USS-Monadnock.png
05:01.10brlcadnot sure that idents.c would actually benefit
05:01.54brlcadstarseeker: cool
05:01.59Ralithbrlcad: it uses the vector element names, at the very least
05:02.01Ralithhowever:
05:02.11Ralithwhen I use vmath.h, I get undefined refs to a few vector funcs
05:02.47Ralithe.g.
05:02.48Ralithburst-gridrotate.o(.text+0xe1):/home/ralith/dev/brlcad/brlcad/src/burst/gridrotate.c:70: undefined reference to `Scale2Vec'
05:02.57RalithI'm thinking it isn't linking to libbn
05:03.04Ralithor something along those lines
05:03.16Ralithany tips as to how to get that to happen?
05:03.30brlcadthat's not the problem
05:03.43Ralithah.
05:03.48brlcadit's saying there is a reference to Scale2Vec that isn't defined
05:04.03Ralith...
05:04.05Ralithyes.
05:04.15Ralithand might it not be defined by linking in the bit where it is?
05:04.24RalithScale2Vec is indeed used.
05:04.25brlcadso you either a) need to define it (i.e. provide an implementation) or b) remove the references to it (which can be code or object code)
05:04.58brlcadScale2Vec isn't a libbn symbol
05:05.10Ralithoh, they're implemented as macros in vecmath.h
05:05.31brlcadthat would be a way to do b)
05:05.39Ralithare they redundant to anything, or would it be appropriate to move them into vmath.h?
05:06.10starseekerbrlcad:  that's cleaned up a tad - the (reduced size) original is here:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/National_Archives/USS-Monadnock_thefirstmonitor_NARA_RG19_136-9-49_Inboard-Profile-and-Main-Deck_28inx6ft_0.25scaled.png
05:06.27Ralithlooks to be redundant
05:07.30brlcadmost of vecmath (if not all of it) has a corresponding alternative in vmath.h
05:07.42Raliththat bad, huh?
05:07.46brlcadand sure, it would be very appropriate
05:08.07Ralithgridrotate should be covered fine by the tests, right?
05:08.27Ralithi.e. I'll know if I've messed something up?
05:09.10brlcadwe don't have any tests (that I'm aware of) that exercise the burst code
05:09.15Ralith:/
05:09.23Ralithwell then
05:09.24brlcadwrite one :)
05:09.26RalithI guess I'd better be careful!
05:09.34Ralithhas no idea what this code even does
05:09.39brlcadsome are dreadfully simple
05:11.07brlcadlike how ScaleVec(a,s) is identical to vmath as VSCALE(a,a,s)
05:11.18louipcstarseeker: nice
05:11.20Ralithyeah
05:11.23RalithI can see that much
05:11.38starseekerlouipc:  thanks :-)
05:11.41louipcstarseeker: I have some drawings like that of some commercial aircraft
05:11.56starseekerthe beauty of this one is it's totally copyright free :-)
05:11.59louipcon paper though.. I have no idea how to scan those huge drawings
05:12.02Ralithin theory it's straightforward
05:12.04louipcah sweet
05:12.15brlcadScale2Vec(a,s,b) ==> VSCALE(b,a,s)
05:12.31Ralithyeah
05:12.37starseekerlouipc:  give me about 10 minutes and I'll have another one up
05:12.38Ralithit's very clear and comprehensible
05:12.42Ralithjust apprehensive of a stupid mistake :P
05:12.47brlcadyep
05:13.28brlcadjust do them one at a time, could even write a little test.c that exercised each one before/after with a simple test case input
05:13.42Ralithalso, the emacs local variable blocks are very handy.
05:16.28brlcadhow's that?
05:16.56Ralithit's always a pain to swap configs across projects of differeing styles (of which I have several)
05:17.03brlcadah
05:17.11Ralithmakes it that much easier to just jump into
05:29.34Ralithbrlcad: alright to wrap proc-db/brep_[simple|cube].cpp in an anonymous namespace to prevent an enum conflict w/ vmath?
05:29.50Ralitha little hacky, but imo still a step up from the undef that used to be there.
05:39.22Ralithit built :D
05:43.24louipcwoo
05:43.39Ralithregression tests seem to pass, if that means anything
05:43.58starseekerREALLY needs to get more RAM to deal with images of this sort
05:47.21Ralithsomebody want to explain to me why line 35-36 of brep.h has #ifdef __cplusplus \n extern "C++" { ?
05:47.43starseekerHere we go:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/National_Archives/M2A4.png
05:47.57starseekerbrlcad:  That one you may like a bit better :-)
05:48.30Raliththat's really neat
05:49.18starseekerThat one was a good exercise in cleanup techniques:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/National_Archives/M2A4_NARA_RG156_ARC-789126_fldr7_Left-Side_Elevation_0.5scaled.png
05:49.53louipcnice
05:50.03Ralithholy ramrape
05:50.45louipcah removing the static eh?
05:50.59starseekeryep
05:51.30louipcare you going to draw them up in autocad or something now? hehe
05:55.36starseekerRalith:  If you think that one is bad, try this:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/National_Archives/full/USS-Monadnock_thefirstmonitor_NARA_RG19_136-9-49_Inboard-Profile-and-Main-Deck_28inx6ft.png
05:55.45starseekerlouipc:  Maybe
05:56.08Ralithstarseeker: no thanks; it took firefox a few seconds to give me interaction back even with the former.
05:56.19starseekerRalith:  Yeah, sorry about that
05:56.23Ralithwait
05:56.29Ralithwas that the boat you linked earlier?
05:56.47starseekerThat was the original image from which the boat image I linked to came from
05:57.12starseekerI had to resort to netpbm to do anything with the original
05:57.25louipcfirefox tells me that last one contains errors
05:57.31starseekerImagemagick when down with nary a wimper
05:57.36Ralithstylistically
05:57.42Ralithif I'm wrapping a lot of code in an anonymous namespace
05:57.49Ralithshould I indent said code another unit?
05:57.56starseekerlouipc:  The big one?
05:57.59starseekerI'm not surprised
05:58.09louipchttp://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/National_Archives/full/USS-Monadnock_thefirstmonitor_NARA_RG19_136-9-49_Inboard-Profile-and-Main-Deck_28inx6ft.png
05:58.16starseekeryeah, that's the big one
05:58.48starseekerBetter to stick to the smaller one - with that view no important detail is lost at the lower res, really
05:59.05louipcyeah it's broken
05:59.14louipclibpng error: IDAT: CRC error
05:59.17Ralithit would make the diff a lot cleaner, but I'm not sure what The Right Thing is.
05:59.38starseekerlouipc:  It should like this better http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/National_Archives/USS-Monadnock-large.png
06:00.32Ralithstarseeker: on that tank, what do the little crosshairs represent? rivets?
06:00.33louipcyep
06:00.49starseekerRalith:  I believe so
06:01.27starseekerlouipc:  I actually have an svg file from potrace with inkscape touchups, with the text added after bitmap export by the Gimp
06:02.46starseekerproblem is the svg file is almost as big as the bitmap, due to so many control points
06:02.53Ralithheh
06:03.06Ralithcrank up simplification a little?
06:03.16starseekertried
06:03.29starseekerpotrace doesn't seem to look for macroscopic "lines"
06:03.35Ralith:/
06:03.50Ralithtried inkscape's native trace? or is the image too big to even attempt?
06:03.52starseekerit follows edges of features, and a "line" to it seems to just be a feature with a really wild outline
06:04.08starseekerRalith:  I think that's based on potrace
06:04.42starseekerautotrace is the only other free tracer I know of, but it really cranks away at this and I'm not sure how much better it would do than potrace
06:05.54Ralithactually
06:06.12RalithI wonder if inkscape's simplification applied after the trace might produce usable output?
06:06.23Ralithyou could even apply it selectively to big, simple shapes, although it'd take a lot of work
06:06.35RalithI don't suppose you even really need a high quality vector of it
06:08.05starseekerRalith:  depends on the purpose
06:08.31starseekerProbably the way to go if I really needed it would be to flip up the bitmap inkscape and trace it
06:08.35starseekerby hand
06:08.58louipcor some cad program ;)
06:09.14starseekerpotrace really is a help here though, since it make the noise easy to target and eliminate
06:09.20starseeker(relatively speaking)
06:10.33starseekerlouipc:  Yeah, actually we might have some image utilities that would be a help in this situation
06:10.39starseekerneed to check it out
06:11.28starseekerRegardless though, these diagrams are pretty cool in and of themselves
06:11.54starseekeris afraid the scanner may have distorted 2 of the tank views...
06:12.39starseekerIf you care to check out everything, just look in http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/National_Archives
06:12.56starseekerwatch out for the stuff in full however - it's REALLY big
06:13.40starseekerwonders why the ImageMagick guys don't incorporate netpbm...
06:13.58louipcwhat dpi is USS-Monadnock-large.png?
06:14.08starseekerum.  good question
06:14.27starseekerthe drawing itself was 6 feet long
06:14.36starseekerbut that's been scaled a few times
06:14.51louipcah wow
06:15.10starseekerthat's why the original image is so incredibly huge
06:15.32starseekerand why my computer died of ram starvation when Gimp or ImageMagick tried to do anything at all with it
06:15.34louipcso that's only like 70dpi
06:15.51starseekernods
06:16.13starseekerBecause of the nature of the drawing though, it's not so critical
06:16.25starseekerstuff like the M2A4 is more critical
06:16.30louipcyeah
06:17.27starseekershould jot down a quick article about how he went from original drawing to final image...
06:18.56Ralithafks breifly
06:19.04starseekerafks?
06:19.09Ralithaway from keyboards
06:19.12starseekerah
06:19.14Ralith:P
06:19.39Ralithbrlcad: I've got a patch ready for vector elements as an enum, btw; not sure if I should commit it w/o review
06:34.41Ralithreturns
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06:45.23starseekerAh, that's where I messed up with the Gimp - incorrect Tile Cache size
06:50.31starseekerno, still doesn't like the original tiff file
06:50.39starseekerneeds more horsepower
07:25.00RalithI am a little surprised that there isn't budget for uberpowerful workstations for you guys to use for stuff like this
07:25.25RalithI guess that's what you get for making brl-cad light on hardware requirements
07:58.33Ralithhm.
07:58.39RalithAnyone here tried g3d recently?
07:58.51Ralithit loads a blank window, cranks on the hdd for a while, then segfaults here
08:06.14Ralithpolls brlcad
08:15.03Ralithif anybody's awake, anyone have recommendations for software for solving systems of linear equations?
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15:30.30starseekerRalith:  Oh, if I were using work computers it would be a different story
15:31.18starseekerRalith:  For liner equations software - If you're talking symbolic Maxima or Axiom are the free options
15:31.44starseekerOctave is pretty good for numerical stuff (or so I hear)
15:32.51brlcadtab-completion ftw
15:33.28brlcadyou'd realize he's not here if you did
15:33.32starseekerAh
15:33.36starseekerphooy
15:34.17starseekerbrlcad:  What do you think of that tank diagram?
15:47.34brlcadstarseeker: it's pretty cool
15:47.53brlcadso you got some good materials when you visited (was that fri?)
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16:56.44starseekerbrlcad:  Yep, just not on the tank I was hoping for
16:57.22starseekerI made a copy of the list of what they do have - I'll show you on Monday if you're in
16:58.49starseekerUnfortunately copying them is a tad expensive (between copy and scanning just what I've got up now came to about $100) but the quality of the blueprints was too good to pass up, particularly as public domain (I'm pretty sure the M2A4 stuff is public domain since Rock Island was a government operation)
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20:39.52Ralithbrlcad: ping?
21:35.09brlcadRalith: pong
21:36.11Ralith:D
21:36.14Ralithget my message last night?
21:36.56brlcadI saw that you said the patch for the enum was ready -- go ahead and apply it and I can review it via the mailing
21:37.20brlcadalso saw that g3d crashed on you, but no crash log to look into it ;)
21:37.29Ralithheh
21:37.32Raliththat's not even your area, is it?
21:37.55brlcadwhy wouldn't it be? :)
21:38.00Ralithiunno
21:38.08Ralithsort of assumed mafm was largely the sole contributor
21:38.16Ralithwhat with how you're giving priority to the geometry service, etc
21:38.44brlcadhe has been, but there's no code "ownership" in brl-cad -- just points of contact, but any dev should be able to work in any other area so long as they're intercommunicating
21:39.13Ralithdidn't mean to imply ownership so much as familiarity
21:39.23brlcadah, well code is code :)
21:39.34Ralithindeed.
21:40.06brlcadcode that another dev can't jump into and contribute to probably needs some usability/documentation/cleanup
21:40.17Ralithgood point.
21:45.48CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03ralith * r33247 10/brlcad/trunk/ (13 files in 8 dirs): Replaced preprocessor defines with an enum for vector element identification to reduce naming conflicts.
21:54.07brlcadcool
21:54.09brlcad~ralith++
21:54.19Ralith^^
21:54.24brlcadI can do some more extensive testing later tonight
21:54.36Ralithcool
21:55.06brlcadbut looks good at a glance
21:55.15brlcadcan probably go even farther with the comgeom/burst bits
21:55.49Ralithyeah, I debated killing the vecmath header(s) entirely
21:55.57Ralithbut decided that it would be best to do that in another commit
21:56.23brlcadnods
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081124

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081124

01:56.54*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177726661.dsl.bell.ca)
04:25.31*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedyJR (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
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11:58.42claymorestretches and yawns.
11:58.49claymoreMondays suck.
11:58.51claymoreMorning all.
12:00.08claymorestarseeker: When it comes to modeling: http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/National_Archives/USS-Monadnock-large.png , why don tyou try inverting the picture and then extruding it in brlcad :)
12:00.08clock_I have a monday with date today, they somehow magically fail to suck
12:00.31claymoreclock_: well thats true ;)
12:00.55clock_lol :)
12:01.03clock_What a simple method of making complicated shapes :)
12:01.31clock_unless - it comes out he doesn't want me. Then this monday will suck 1000 times more than an average monday ;-)
12:01.52claymoreHell yeah.  Extrude the X then the Y then the Z.  then:  r MyBadAzzMonitor.r u x.s + y.s + z.s
12:01.55claymoremuwahahahaha
12:02.12CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33248 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/typein.c: put variable declaration on the begin of the section so my old compiler understands it
12:02.20clock_lol
12:02.23claymorethen:  mged> facetize MyBadAzzMonitor.s MyBadAzzMonitor.r and watch your computer cry.
12:02.25clock_K&R compiler?
12:02.25archivistI expect starseeker to do that as an assembly of parts
12:08.21claymoreI expect Radar Study LOD internal and external by riday.  Now snap to it!
12:08.31claymoreriday = Friday :/
12:08.43claymorethe puter eateded the F
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12:17.30claymoreMornin Markol and Mafm!
12:19.02mafmhi claymore, and the rest
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19:20.48CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33249 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/edsol.c: More work on editing support for hyp
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19:50.32IriX64hey ``Erik_, ... testing something, may I do a version on you ?
19:53.08IriX64hrmph , all right :)
20:17.36*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096601422.dsl.bell.ca)
20:18.12IriX64see http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/JoveCygwin.tar.bz2 :)
20:18.48IriX64works here :)
20:20.14louipcIriX64: still on windows eh?
20:20.16louipcgrins
20:20.33IriX64says WiniX, get it right :)
20:22.05IriX64gives that jove back to you free of charge, thanks for the fun :)
20:22.23louipcI have jove but I don't use it
20:22.45IriX64i should learn how to use it, seems decent enough
20:23.03IriX64and it understands unix line endings :)
20:23.05louipcgood editors are good
20:23.10IriX64yes
20:23.14louipcI would recommend vi
20:23.26louipcor vim really
20:23.36louipcauthentic vi is a bit primitive
20:23.37IriX64midnight commander has a nift vim implementation
20:23.46louipcand jove is actually a bit primitive too
20:24.15IriX64not writing a book :)
20:24.18louipcso you might do better with a more advanced emacs
20:25.05louipchah you don't need too much capability for that
20:25.17louipcI think..
20:25.18IriX64true
20:26.04IriX64did some of the /src/utils too, should i post them?
20:26.42IriX64not sure how much need there is for them to be windows apps
20:27.27louipcpost the full windows build of 7.14.0 ;)
20:27.54IriX64aways from that :)
20:34.12IriX64called RedHat, about Cygwin, the guy calls me back saying.. it's yours do anything you want with it, I left smiling :)
20:35.25IriX64this is a longish upload it seems
20:36.41IriX64its there look for CygUtil.tar.bz2
20:37.44IriX64my mistake damn i speak too soon wait a few minutes ill try again
20:40.00IriX64trying again
20:40.47IriX64jove is now in the util file :)
20:44.53IriX64its too big my little site cant handle it :(
20:51.47IriX64its 53 megs bz2ed
20:52.04IriX64most of thats your stuff, there only one of my dll's in it
20:52.31IriX64quota exceeded
20:56.16IriX64reloaded Jove, do you want to look at the BitchX binaries?
21:01.36IriX64BitchXCyg.tar.bz2
21:02.19IriX64if i find a place to put that util directory ill let you know, :) syall
22:03.52brlcadlouipc: feeding the local fauna?
22:07.00louipcbrlcad: hah!
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081125

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081125

00:27.31starseekerrealizes rotating the A vector in hyp is kind of pointless
00:27.50starseekerneed to restrict it to just the plane where it is legal
00:27.58starseekermeh
00:28.14starseekerwill figure out how to do that later
00:28.18brlcada twisted hyp?
00:28.28brlcadit could matter for uv mappings
00:28.39starseekercan we do twisted with this?
00:29.11brlcaddoubtful, but dunno
00:29.20starseekerAs defined I don't think so
00:29.39starseekerneed more input parameters
00:37.32CIA-62BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33250 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/edsol.c: Activate most of the edit entries for HYP. Need to do some work to restrict behavior of ROT A to something more useful - let H do the free rotations and have A rotate around H.
00:38.14brlcadhttp://www.jug.net/wt/slscp/sh2s.jpg
00:38.25brlcadconfigurable chord length and twist params? :)
00:38.30brlcadis kidding
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02:22.00marko1anyone know what this means
02:22.04marko1class_lu_vs_s: loop transits plane of shell/face?
02:22.05marko1FAILED in Boolean evaluation: /bobbin_left
02:22.05marko10 triangles written
02:22.16marko1got it while running g-stl
02:27.04Ralithmarko1: sounds like it it had trouble going from CSG to a mesh; happens sometimes. I think the general solution is to fiddle with the model a bit and try again. Not sure if there's anything specific you can glean from that error.
02:30.48marko1ok
02:30.58marko1not very reassuring!
02:31.12marko1heh
02:33.36Ralithyeah, work's being done on a new -> mesh system, iirc
02:34.11Ralithit's not an easy problem to solve; I'm not aware of any free implementation without serious issues, and for all I know the commercial ones might have the same.
02:35.27Ralithmarko1: This is really just a guess, but maybe you have overlapping regions?
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02:46.07yukonbobhello, cadheads
03:06.23starseekerbrlcad:  cool
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04:40.49brlcadwoo hoo, networking
04:49.36Ralithnetworking! yay!
04:49.47Ralithwait what
04:51.42brlcadI've been without net in my new place.. until just a few minutes ago
05:32.00Ralithahh.
05:32.05Ralithit is nice to have that remedied.
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05:53.48HectorVictoriouswhat system specs would you recommend for smooth performance (not the absolute minimum)
05:54.08RalithHectorVictorious: to do what?
05:54.42Ralithbrl-cad can probably run to some degree or other on any hardware you can imagine; mged, on most.
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05:57.45Ralitho.O
05:58.34Ralithhe PM'd me two lines of details then quit.
05:58.35Ralithhuh.
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12:36.49mafmhi
12:36.54claymorehowdy!
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15:20.02starseekersupresses the temptation to destroy his mouse
15:20.20starseekerrandom doubleclicks are a real problem, especially when trying to do graphics work
15:20.41starseekeranybody have recommendations for a good mouse that can take a real pounding?
15:20.56starseekerdoesn't need 200 buttons, just something that can take getting run over
15:21.11starseeker+ scroll wheel
15:23.24clock_starseeker: so 199 buttons are OK?
15:23.39archiviststarseeker, Ive been getting randomness from my mouse....done about 20 miles across the bench top over the years
15:24.16archivistmine a Logitech wireless
15:26.31starseekerclock_:  Heh
15:26.49starseekerI just mean I don't need something robust AND highly complex
15:26.56starseekerarchivist:  Really.
15:27.05starseekerthought Logitech was good
15:27.26archivistabout 6 years old now
15:27.41archivistreally worn still going
15:28.05starseekerah
15:28.07archivisthas been good
15:28.49archivistdid a 10 mile service the other day and stripped it down for a de gunge
15:29.42archivistthis is a working bench not office!
15:31.42archivistso actually Im pretty happy with it, and have HP and Gateway badged versions for use at home and as a spare for when it really dies
15:32.29starseekercool
15:33.15archivistonly mouse to outlast this was a mouse systems mouse
15:33.49archivistand that was circa 1988-1998
15:34.51archivistmouse systems worked very hard, was doing PCB design with that one
15:37.27starseekerremembers designs for the old symbolics lisp mice - metal components, built like tanks
15:37.37starseekersorta like their keyboards :-)
15:38.21archivistmouse systems needed new feet and a shortened tail
15:39.08archivistactually got genuine replacement felt for the pads
15:39.48clock_use a GPS receiver and translate the coordinates into the screen coordinates
15:39.52clock_so called athletic mouse ;-)
15:43.18starseekerHmm... Logitech LX3 Optical Mouse looks interesting
15:44.08archivistI stick with ball where I can, opticals get some surfaces wrong
15:48.54starseekersaddles up and heads out
15:49.12claymoreRawhide!!!!
16:09.11``ErikI used to use a logitech mouseman 95, now I use a razer v1.6
16:10.37``ErikI think the shape of the razer is screwing with  my wrist, though
16:11.17``ErikI used a logitech rs 800 briefly, but it's not that great
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17:24.20brlcadspeaking of tanks, drove past an m1 this morning on I95
17:24.33brlcadundoubtedly on its way up to apg
17:24.41brlcadfun :)
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17:39.48archivistwould be nice to drive a tank one day, over here for a pile of ££ one can for a day
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18:09.22starseekerbrlcad: awesome :-)
18:09.31starseekervehicles not to argue the right of way with :-P
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18:45.30PrezKennedyJRbrlcad, there was an M1 on I95?
18:46.27PrezKennedyJRor was it on a flatbed?
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20:30.10brlcadPrezKennedy: ah, it was on a flatbed :)
20:30.18brlcadthat would have been even more impressive
20:31.09brlcadI've seen them driving down route 40 before at high-speed, but only flatbedded on I95
21:21.42mafmbye bye folkz
21:21.55mafmbecoming an expert employment lawyer
21:21.57mafm:P
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22:09.18PrezKennedyi wanna drive an M1 on US40
22:09.43PrezKennedyid be like that guy who stole the tank in California, except i wouldnt get stuck on a jersey barrier
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22:37.48brlcadPrezKennedy: you'd just drive it into the Bay?
22:55.03PrezKennedyno id drive it onto the base!
22:55.05PrezKennedymake it exciting
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081126

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081126

03:06.24CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33251 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/edsol.c: Too many controls for the need on hyp - reduce to what is needed
03:22.33CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33252 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/db.h include/wdb.h src/conv/asc2g.c): Make asc2g aware of hyp, add includes needed for this to work
03:36.53CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33253 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/tedit.c: Add ted support for hyp
04:45.16CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33254 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/mirror.c: Add support to mirror for hyp
04:47.15starseekerblinks - apparently eto doesn't have analyze implemented either?
05:03.45CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33255 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/anal.c: Stub out analyze for the hyp. Volume and area calculations for this sucker look like they may prove a real challenge.
05:04.48starseekernotices the tgc doesn't have a general surface area calculation either
05:05.41starseekerdeclare victory for now - looks like analyze in general needs some though and TLC - should its functionality live elsewhere?
05:09.22CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33256 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: Add proc-db for creation of optical lenses using rcc and epa primitives by solving the lensmaker's equation.
05:10.12starseekerfinally bites the bullet and updates the NEWS file
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05:13.00CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33257 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS TODO): Add support for editing hyp primitives to MGED.
05:17.06starseekerzzzz
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11:15.48mafmhi folks
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12:37.59brlcadhowdy mafm
12:42.01mafmstill fighting with my bosses
12:42.03mafm:)
12:42.12mafmI go to lunch now, to try to recover
12:42.24brlcadsorry to hear that..
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13:51.06mafmback
13:51.12mafmso how're you brlcad
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14:19.46brlcadmafm: pretty good
14:20.09brlcadfeels bad for the torture starseeker is presently going through
15:23.55mafmdocumentation?
15:24.01mafmI haven't been paying much attention
15:37.20mafmbrlcad/trunk/src/mged/anal.c -- oh, I see the pain now
15:37.46mafm(under Modified Paths :) )
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16:27.34brlcadmafm: heh, not exactly related, but funny nonetheless :)
16:42.59mafm:)
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17:32.13Lint_Traphullo, anyone around?
17:32.31archivistwrong question
17:33.05archivistin irc just fire off a question and wait  for an answer
17:33.44archivistsome low traffic channels can take a few hours for an answer
17:35.21Lint_Trapokay: can anyone with experience with BRL-CAD as well as one (or many) of the expensive solid modeling apps give me a brief rundown of what the learning curve will be like for someone migrating from said expensive, gui-based apps? Specifically, I learned all my solid modeling on Pro-Engineer.
17:36.28archivistas a Solidworks user I would say steep until a nice gui comes along
17:38.17Lint_TrapI've done some 2d stuff in autocad that was all from the command line. do you think that would be comparable?
17:38.25archivistyes
17:38.53archivistand no as its solids
17:39.13louipcthere is some functionality missing in command line too
17:39.31louipcyou can't edit sketches
17:39.36archivistand I have not touched Autocad in a LOT of years (release 2)
17:40.00louipcyeah the whole modelling approach is different with solids too
17:40.18louipcI'd say that would be the biggest learning curve
17:40.31louipcCSG vs Brep anyways
17:40.38archivisthave a play see what you think
17:40.46Lint_Trapin pro/e: you perform extrudes and revolves a lot. However, most are based on "internal" sketches.
17:41.33louipcyeah in BRL-CAD you work with 3d objects from the start. cubes, spheres, etc...
17:43.30Lint_Trapis it feature based modelling?
17:44.10louipcfeatures like bosses, holes, etc?
17:44.28louipcthere's nothing like that in brl-cad
17:44.34louipcyou've got to do it all manually
17:44.39Lint_Traphmm, okay
17:44.44louipcusing cubes, spheres, cylinders, etc
17:44.56louipcsubtract a cylinder from a part to make a hole :D
17:45.02Lint_Trapeasy enough
17:45.46Lint_Trapfor example, say I was doing an I-beam. In BRL I would not be able to draw the cross-section and extrude it, I'd have to create a rectangular prism and subtract 2 rectangular prisms from it
17:46.03louipcyou can do that nowadays
17:46.30louipcthe extrude
17:46.40louipcthere's brep support
17:47.06louipcbut the sketch interface ain't that great
17:47.54Lint_Trapis the sketch interface command line?
17:49.48louipcno it's GUI only
17:50.00louipcthat's one thing I don't like about it haha
17:50.24Lint_Trapseems strange... may as well play on the strengths, right?
17:50.25louipcautocad command line made for quick work of sketching in my experience
17:50.52Lint_Trapexactly. once you were good, it was faster for many tasks
17:51.22Lint_Trapthanks for you help
17:51.44louipcyep.
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19:13.52brlcadlouipc: you can edit sketches, there is a sketch editor
19:13.57brlcadit's just a little painful
19:14.16brlcadheh, and from release 2 .. we're not too far away :)
19:15.05brlcadah you mentioned the sketch interface, cool
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19:34.20starseekerspooky
19:34.32starseekerand brlcad were just discussing sketch
19:53.51mafmbye, folkz :)
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21:25.57IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/cvs.tar.gz      <--- windows cvs client (command line driven)
21:33.25IriX64brought up mged in 7.11 it goes looking for tc.tk copied tclinit to tc.tk and it comes up fine, gui has a problem though
21:39.54IriX64gonna try my hand at 7.14.0, wish me luck :)
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22:14.47IriX64http://rafb.net/p/mCPrbx89.html  <---- are these pastebins still allowed
22:15.04IriX64the copy at the bottom is my way of getting around it
22:15.07IriX64:)
22:17.43IriX64cept the copys not right
22:17.52IriX64:)
22:38.59IriX64im not literate in cpp is this solver_test and vm_test needed for the build to be successfull?
22:41.42IriX64i dummied out solver_test by providing a dummy exe file to keep make happy and did the same for vm_test, but am i going to need those at runtime?
22:47.27IriX64not sposed to dummy them out :)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081127

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081127

00:03.08*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1242451094.dsl.bell.ca)
00:03.15IriX64regards
00:05.10IriX64when i start from autogen.sh at configure time i get a whole lot of makefile.in seems to ignore the --datarootdir setting, this does not happen when i use the packaged configure
00:09.17IriX64oh, version 7.14.0 :)
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03:17.53IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/CygWinIrssi.tar.gz
03:18.12IriX64no perl tho (sigh)
03:21.28louipcI think the irssi people might be more interested in that one
03:21.51IriX64you mean if i got perl to work?
03:22.03louipcmaybe
03:22.22louipcyou'd have to ask them :D
03:22.34IriX64heh *you ask them :)
03:22.50louipcnah it's not my build
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03:23.19IriX64hehe i could say it's not mine either but id be lying :)
04:28.28brlcadIriX64: sounds like you have busted/old version of autotools if packaged configure works but yours doesn't
04:28.36brlcadthey are rather different version to version
04:41.36IriX64thanks brlcad
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14:19.34mafmhi
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15:17.45brlcadhappy gobble gobble
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15:52.14mafmbrlcad: take it easy, boy! :)
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17:55.50mafmbye
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19:30.29IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/7.14.0.png  :) last nights effort :)
19:39.44brlcadIriX64: are you running mged twice there or is one console and the second a 'gui' attachment
19:40.00brlcadguesses twice
19:40.25IriX64gui *from console
19:41.07IriX64should have it shut down console ? mebbe
19:41.17brlcadno, that's right
19:41.24brlcadjust wondering how you found it?
19:41.26IriX64need both
19:41.30IriX64?
19:41.37brlcadno
19:41.44IriX64followed gui command :)
19:41.57brlcadhow did you find the gui command, though?
19:42.09IriX64browsing code
19:42.24IriX64sposed to be a secret ?
19:42.31brlcadno, just curious
19:42.41IriX64heh cat comes to mind :)
19:43.30IriX64kudos that was an autogen effort
19:43.47IriX64or was it, wait
19:44.38IriX64was your supplied configure effort sorry
19:45.57IriX64gonna try autogen now, see you later
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19:56.59IriX64http://rafb.net/p/5vvPr953.html
19:57.15IriX64tons of these starting from autogen
20:00.19IriX64the other configures don't produce those
20:02.22louipcIriX64: so what are you working on?
20:02.36louipcjust to get a windows build?
20:02.58IriX64playing with brlcad again, trying to get it to build from a make distclean.
20:03.03louipcor cygwin build rather
20:03.11IriX64yes
20:03.28louipclooks live you've accomplished that eh?
20:03.39IriX64sigh brlcad won't fit on my space or id give it to you :)
20:03.51IriX64no that was the distributed configure
20:03.54louipcthat's OK I don't run windows
20:03.59IriX64heh
20:04.09louipcoh it doesn't build from SVN?
20:04.44IriX64SVN????
20:04.53louipcSVN HEAD
20:05.01louipcthat's where the latest development happens
20:05.17IriX64dont have accxess to that im working with the tarball from sourceforge
20:05.30louipcyou can check out svn
20:05.39IriX64have cvs but thats 7.11.0
20:05.49louipcyou just won't be able to commit unless you're added as a dev
20:05.58IriX64dunno if im ready for that :)
20:06.28louipcyou only need two commands
20:06.33IriX64give
20:07.05louipctp://sf.net/proje
20:07.05louipc14:40 < IriX64> sposed to be a secret ?
20:07.09louipcoops
20:07.18louipchttp://sourceforge.net/svn/?group_id=105292
20:07.20louipcsee that page
20:07.28IriX64thanks
20:07.47louipcmake the checkout URL this though: https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad
20:07.52louipcerr
20:08.09louipcmake the checkout URL this though: https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk
20:08.12louipcrather
20:08.38louipcafter you checkout you only need to do `svn update` to get the latest code
20:08.45louipcsimilar to CVS
20:09.24IriX64ahhh don't worry about it man im just a curious hobbiest :)
20:10.00louipcyou should be trying to do something useful with your hobby though eh?
20:10.11IriX64if i go to svn id have to take it seriously :)
20:10.26louipcnot really
20:10.50IriX64ill file the url
20:11.40louipcyeah check it out.
20:16.09IriX64recorded it and i do have an svn client so maybe...
20:16.55louipccool
20:16.59IriX64does it create a dir called brlcad-7.14.0 or just a brlcad dir?
20:17.12louipcjust brlcad
20:17.17IriX64thanks
20:17.22louipcthere really is no 'version'
20:18.02IriX64as gump told JFK ive really gotta pee, be right back :)
20:18.15louipcbut if you file a bug report or something you'd cite the SVN revision number
20:18.37louipcwhich is 33257 currently
20:28.20IriX64i dont file bug reports i just pastebin
20:33.59IriX64do you have to specify trunk or is it automatic
20:36.31IriX64louipc .... i'm 54 man, just have time on my hands :)
20:43.43IriX64should package svn like i did cvs :)
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21:56.44IriX64louipc: i readily admit I don't know what the fark, i'm doing with svn, should i be getting /branches?
21:56.58IriX64brlcad/branches
21:57.36RalithIriX64, if you've got the time, you could always just check out the whole repo and see what you need from there :P
21:57.48IriX64heh thanks :)
21:59.15louipcIriX64: not if you used the url I said. scroll up ^
21:59.50IriX64used the instructions on the page you sent me to
22:00.10louipchah I said to use this: https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk instead though
22:00.20louipcsame instructions, but different url
22:00.22louipc:P
22:00.31IriX64thanks man standby
22:05.00IriX64thats better
22:09.35IriX64oohhhh man... did i see a watcom makefile go by?
22:10.06RalithO.O
22:10.12Raliththere's watcom support?
22:10.27IriX64thought i saw somewthing say watcom
22:12.05louipcyeah you did see it
22:12.37louipca makefile for the watcom compiler
22:13.08IriX64maybe ill reinstall watcom :)
22:13.34louipcit's not the watcom you're thinking of
22:13.42IriX64?
22:13.51IriX64c/c++ compiler
22:13.52louipcis it oh nvm
22:14.52louipcyeah there'd be no point to that
22:15.03IriX64true
22:17.01IriX64make *sure i don't have commit access i'm still learning how to drive this svn thingy :)
22:18.03IriX6433257? louipc check me
22:18.56louipcyou don't
22:19.03IriX64aww man theres no configure ;)
22:19.16louipchah that was the point wasn't it?
22:19.25louipcto build from a totally clean source tree?
22:19.47IriX64yes thanks for the help and positive attitude
22:20.21louipccheers
22:20.25louipchave fun with it
22:20.31IriX64i will
22:20.43IriX64*much fun ;)
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22:57.30IriX64does tkhtml3 not able to find tclsh85.exe happen only on my system? or do other platforms suffer same symptom?
22:59.11louipcyeah tkhtml3 stuff is a bit wonky
22:59.24IriX64thanks
23:01.19IriX64whos right? tcl or the tkhtml3? i mean is it supposed to have the 85 or not?
23:01.35IriX64several ways of fixing it
23:02.12louipcdepends on your system
23:02.50IriX64my tcl is generated without the 85 :)
23:05.01IriX64heh same for wish
23:06.13IriX64heh ill just hack make file (path of least resistancwe :))
23:07.02IriX64it made time to get layed ;)
23:43.21louipcIriX64: you can save your changes as a patch too try `svn diff`
23:43.42IriX64thanks louipc
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081128

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081128

00:27.54IriX64yay install time :)
00:39.40IriX64http://rafb.net/p/A19g2W87.html <--- install time blues
00:57.28IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/7.14.1.png    <---with a little persuasion it came up, this is off svn.
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02:29.23redvsbluetroubleradio.net :D
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12:43.33claymoremornin all!
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13:38.00brlcadmornin' claymore
13:40.56claymorebrlcad: hai!  How was t-day?
13:49.34``Erikmmmm, poussière de café
14:05.10mafmhi
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15:14.17joevanodoh, no brlcad here either :/
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15:34.57claymorethat was strange
15:35.22claymore:/
15:47.00claymorekick CIA-4
15:47.11claymorekicks CIA-4
15:47.11CIA-4ow
15:47.21claymoreokay, just checking.
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16:10.31claymoredid bzflag.bz hiccup?
16:11.40``Erikeh?
16:12.05``Erikooh, looks like it got rebooted
16:14.14claymorebummer.
16:15.46``Erikhappens to the best of them... only 104 days uptime before that one, though :/
16:17.00joevanoclaymore, ``Erik : it did not reboot.. file system is full (/usr)
16:17.19joevanobzflag.bz reports 499 days up
16:18.22``Erikerm,
16:18.26joevanoah.. that is just a news message :/
16:18.58``Erikheh :)
16:19.05joevanothats why I came looking for brlcad here, he wasn't in #bzflag
16:19.17joevanofired off an e-mail to him
16:20.44joevanoi freed up a little space but those were just some old bzflag wiki backups
16:21.03``Erikand it was an impolite reboot, it fired off fsck's
16:21.16joevanoyeah
16:23.37``Erikgiven that I'm consuming 48m on /usr, I think I'll opt out of cleaning up :D
16:34.21claymoreSpace hog!
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16:38.55``Erikso now we can pick on brlcad for rebooting the machine without warning! :D and doing it without umounting the drives
16:38.58``Erik:D
16:39.43brlcaddid no such thing
16:40.05claymorehas a space 80 gig'er if ya need it :P
16:40.43``Eriknotes that the 'other' machine took a similar reboot a little over an hour before bz
16:41.01``ErikI wonder if someone is wandering the datacenter flipping power switches off and on again
16:43.54clock_99/win 14
17:05.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33258 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/ (Makefile.am load.c load_MySQL.c): break MySQL loader stuff out into its own file
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19:20.06IriX64try... my site/7.14.1-round2.png   :)
19:20.54IriX64why does mged started in mged mode crap out if a select is done on the share directory?
19:23.03louipcwhat's mged mode?
19:23.13IriX64gui mode :)
19:23.25IriX64classic is mged -c
19:23.30louipcnormal mode then?
19:23.34IriX64yes
19:23.38louipcor default rather
19:23.43IriX64right
19:23.45louipcthinks classic should be default
19:23.49louipc:D
19:24.02IriX64afraid to learn new ways :)
19:24.26louipcyou're opening a .g file from a shared directory?
19:24.46IriX64no trying to open the share dir
19:25.23IriX64status access violation like the dir is locked or something, but ill find the critter
19:25.24louipcbecause it's not a .g file that's why :D
19:25.42IriX64share.g interesting thought :)
19:28.39``Erikalias mged='mged -c'
19:29.33``Erikdoesn't understand what irix means by "a select is done"
19:29.54IriX64mouse cursor on share dir and then left click
19:30.05``Erikoh, 'open with' on a data file?
19:30.17IriX64share is a dir not a data file
19:30.22``Erikif it's a directory, it'll fail because you can't open a directory as a file on most os's
19:30.52IriX64cmon now i had it working on 7.12.6 and below
19:31.16IriX64changed my os tho wonder if i buggered something
19:31.19``Erikhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d7d0c30df
19:31.52``Erikum, what did it do on 7.12.6 and below? I should've failed (I wonder if someone fixed fruity behavior since then?)
19:32.47IriX64opened the directory
19:33.01IriX64this is from the gui ``Erik
19:33.13IriX64comes up in gui mode
19:33.51IriX64navigation of the file open button is whats being questioned here
19:34.02``Erikahhh, you mean you pull up the 'open file' dialog, select a directory, then click open to go in, opposed to doubleclicking it?
19:34.11IriX64right
19:34.41IriX64could be a platform thing
19:34.52``Erikok, that one may be a legitimate grievance
19:35.00IriX64ahh
19:35.10``ErikI just tried it on my mac and it just sits there when I click open, doesn't go into it or crash or anything
19:35.31IriX64heh ill buy a (insert your machine here) :)
19:35.40``Erikthe guy who's been doing that stuff isn't in today, though (being post-turkey trauma day and all)
19:35.54IriX64heh ok :)
19:36.08``Erikhrm, 8-core mac pro with 16g ram, a 30" and two 23" cinemadisplays? d'no if you wanna
19:36.20``Erikit's an awesome piece of hardware, but I wouldn't buy one myself
19:37.08IriX64you just scared me a way that mist you see is me raising dust :)
19:38.18``Erika bit over 10k I think?
19:38.58``ErikI just bought a new macbook, didn't go with the pro, a little more power for a lot more price :/
19:39.32IriX64my system isn't complaing of obsolence yet :)
19:40.35``Erikmy home server is a 650mhz p3 with 128m ram, my old laptop was a g3 700mhz with 650m ram... it was about time :)
19:41.00claymore``Erik: How does wow run on the new machine?
19:41.03``ErikI have an 850mhz athlon tbird with 384m ram that just needs a new cpu fan
19:41.06IriX64complained that it needed more geritol than you had did it :)
19:41.08``Erikawesomely, dave
19:41.36``Erikeven with all the updated graphic stuff in the new expansion that almost doubled system requirements
19:42.05``Erikirix: prep-h, I do horrible abusive things to my servers O:-)
19:42.31IriX64heh long as they say "yah master" i don't complain :)
19:43.01louipcit just sits there for me too
19:43.13louipclinux
19:43.26IriX64ahh ill keep looking
19:43.50IriX64tried to build termlib, cursor.c has issues i can't understand
19:52.03mafmbye
20:06.43IriX64my loadavg is showing, gottta go ;)
20:25.25*** join/#brlcad ``Erik_ (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
20:27.07*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177878899.dsl.bell.ca)
20:27.42IriX64http://rafb.net/p/oDXOsL61.html    <---- louipc what do i do with it :)
20:31.28IriX64took out everything but ${EXEEXT}  :)
20:38.08IriX64trying it now sigh :)
20:45.42*** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177879232.dsl.bell.ca)
20:46.24IriX64_louipc tell them it configures with tclsh now not 85, should compile fine.
20:47.39IriX64_course i have been known to speak to soon :)
20:51.20IriX64_good job, builds now.
20:51.40IriX64_wonky eh, louipc ;)
20:52.37IriX64_if anybody asks, i did ./autogen.sh
21:01.55*** join/#brlcad frozeniron (n=phreak@70-56-27-199.eugn.qwest.net)
21:06.38*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
21:36.30IriX64_http://rafb.net/p/WCgmfF56.html   <--- louipc looksee >
21:37.23IriX64_had to get creative with the prefix, farkles...
21:40.53IriX64_tell *nix to put the bat away now :)
21:42.25RalithElapsed compilation time: 44 minutes, 15 seconds
21:42.28Raliththat must have been painful
21:42.35IriX64_im patient
21:42.55IriX64_error free run man
21:44.41IriX64_sigh another 3/4 hour wait
22:11.17louipchah takes me a good 2hr to build brl-cad
22:15.00*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14F429.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:55.15*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177879232.dsl.bell.ca)
22:55.35IriX64http://rafb.net/p/VLcBVn69.html  <--- wonky indeed louipc
22:57.25IriX64is it because of my path?
23:15.31*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177879232.dsl.bell.ca)
23:16.26IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/shot.png   <--- persuaded it to install and this is the extent of my artistic capabilities :)
23:26.49``Erikno way
23:26.58``Erikholy crap, a mork&mindy marathon on scifi
23:28.07*** join/#brlcad marko1_ (n=mark@207-255-231-073-dhcp.jst.pa.atlanticbb.net)
23:29.21frozenironnever seen it
23:29.29frozenironlooks interesting, tho
23:31.26``Erikwas a popular show int he late 70's, early 80's
23:31.33frozenironwow, robin williams
23:31.43``Erikis old :(
23:31.56frozenironno, i grew up w/out a tv
23:32.46frozenironsomeone gave me a commodore64, and i could not even use it
23:33.54``Erikwell, obviously, the first things you do are
23:33.54``Erikpoke 53280,0
23:33.54``Erikpoke 53281,0
23:33.54``Erikthen it's pimped, riced out, yo
23:33.55``Erik(turns the background and border black)
23:34.17``Erikwith a disk in, you do load "$",8 to bring the disks directory into memory, then list to see it
23:34.47``Erikor load "*",8 to load the first thing ont he disk into memory, usually followed by 'run' if it has the basic stub (or is a basic program)
23:35.07``Erik:D thems was sweet machines, I did a little code poking on a coleco adam (z80 cp/m) before upgrading to the good old c64
23:35.36``Erikshuts up and installed vice on his laptop
23:39.44frozenironyes, but you needed a tv to make it work
23:40.27frozenironstupid newbie question...
23:40.31``Erikthe c128 had a d15 rgb plug
23:40.49frozenironyeah, but i got a 386 instead
23:40.50``ErikI think it was d15... was required for 80 column mode
23:40.58frozenironcorrect
23:41.41``Erikwith the 387, the 386 was far more of a number cruncher than the c64/c128, but the multimedia on the commies stomped
23:42.11frozenironi used it to play descent. that was all dos was good for
23:42.17``Erikdoom2
23:42.23``Erikwolf3d
23:42.51frozenirondoom
23:43.06frozenironthen i got a 486 so i could install linux
23:43.14``ErikI'm gonna keep jacking my jaw until you ask your question, btw
23:43.24frozenirono, rite...
23:43.27``Erik386 could support linux iirc, though I first tried linux on a 486
23:43.31frozenironold times...
23:43.45frozenironi am working thrugh the gmed tutoiral...
23:43.48``Erikredhat 2.0, slackware 3.0... ended up adopting dilinux for a while
23:43.48frozenironmged
23:44.10frozenironslackware 96-suse-gentoo (gentoo now)
23:44.24``Erik<-- fled to fbsd after doing kernel development
23:44.25frozenironhow do do dimension lines?
23:44.38frozenironor make something like a conventional print
23:44.53``Erikum, we don't have any real dimensioning... if you know your object, you COULD theoretically make sketch objects alongside the real geometry
23:44.55frozenironi had to do a screenshot and fix it in openoffice
23:45.01``Erikor post-process it
23:45.20frozenironpost process?
23:45.40``Erikyeah, crank it up in OOo or gimp and add the lines and text...
23:45.41frozenironi feel that there would be great use in having that built-in
23:46.02``Erikyeah, we agree, but historically the focus has been CAE, not CAD, and the paid work is all CAE related
23:46.08frozenironyes... only problem is that the exported pic was only screen res
23:46.21frozenirontrue
23:46.33frozenironif i was a programmer, i would help
23:47.08frozenironi am taking a print-reading class in school, and learning a bit about gd&t
23:47.25``Erikum, it's on our long 'project vision' list, but *shrug* we have mebbe 3.5 developers and someting like 5-10 years of work demanded by the people who sign the checks
23:48.35``Erikand it's a nontrivial effort for an open source developer to learn the package, much less contribute a major work like dimensioning :)
23:48.59frozenirontrue, but worthwile
23:50.15``Erikdamn, this schtick is just painful :(
23:50.24frozenironi really like what i ?
23:50.44frozenironi like what i see so far from brlcad
23:51.04frozenirono, morg&mindy?
23:51.45frozenironmy idea was to have a seperate application that can read the db,
23:51.54frozenironthen add all of the features there
23:52.32frozenironthink that would be better than cluttering the interface with something that not everyone would use
23:53.48frozenironthe end result would be that i could have prints, 3d renderings, and maybe cam stuff like g-code, tool paths, etc
23:54.36frozenironall saved without a specific resolution
23:55.23frozenironexcept of course rendering
23:55.43frozenironawww...
23:57.48frozenironi would like something to go between brl-cad and emc2 (open source cnc controller for machine tools)
23:57.56``Erikhrm, we have "archer" which is an experimental gui
23:57.58*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@78.134.197.167)
23:58.31frozenironarcher at command line produces blank window
23:59.05frozenironi will need to investigate
23:59.06``Erikthere's been talk about a g-gerber converter (twingy wrote gcam to satisfy his needs, no relation to BRL-CAD other than social... http://gcam.js.cx )
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081129

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081129

00:00.10Twingywriting to gerber is easy, writing to g-code is hard
00:00.26frozenironi believe that
00:00.35frozenirontaking intro to cnc...
00:01.05frozenironit seems like a very poor language to produce code by machine
00:01.16``Erikoh, heh, for some strange reason, I thought the g in g-code stood for gerber, my bad :) not my scene
00:01.21``Erikwaves at twingy
00:01.30Twingyhi erik
00:02.04frozenironno, g and m code as in rs-274d
00:05.45frozenironi also have the idea that instead of using g-code, just use brl format, with an extra file that defines tooling, etc
00:06.46frozenironit would be awkward, but the resulting output would be much smaller and more precise
00:07.26frozenirong-code has a hard time with complex surfaces because you have to define every point
00:12.24frozenironis there a library for reading the db format?
00:14.09``Eriklibwdb and librt
00:14.17frozenironthanks
00:14.19``Eriklibwdb is more about writing
00:32.17*** part/#brlcad joevano (n=joevano@bzflag/developer/JoeVano)
01:06.35redvsbluei'm djing if you guys care
01:13.23archivistlooking at freetype to gcode atm
01:38.14``Erikis making punker play cool songs on her intarweb dj thingiemajigger, is evil like that... the full version of moody blues - forever afternoon
01:38.41``Erikall eight and a half minutes of it, mwahahaha
02:18.48*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
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12:06.17*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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14:07.34CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r33259 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (6 files): safeguarding variable values during solving process; adding store and restore methods in VCSet class and corresponding virutal method to VariableAbstract Class
16:21.55*** join/#brlcad cybersunboy (n=csanyipa@91.102.231.33)
16:22.57*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@91.102.231.33)
16:23.20csanyipalHi, I want to ask a small question!
16:24.23csanyipalI maintain a small Moodle system on my home web site at http://csanyi-pal.info/moodle and have a courses for the BRL-CAD for my students.
16:26.39csanyipalCan I use the "Volume II – Introduction to MGED" so that I translate it all, or some peaces of the text in to Hungarian or Serbian language in my curses?
16:30.06*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
16:55.13Axman6csanyipal: stick around for a while, this channel is very quiet most of the time. but brlcad will get back to you and let you know i'm sure
17:04.20csanyipalAxman6: Thanks! :)
17:04.38Axman6brlcad: *poke*
17:04.54Axman6he's probably asleep, but that'll make sure he knows someone needs him...
17:05.21csanyipal:)
18:31.51*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-58-243-38.dclient.hispeed.ch)
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21:40.33*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096601317.dsl.bell.ca)
21:41.15IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/todayscheckout.png
21:41.33IriX64thanks louipc :)
22:11.47*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14D6FD.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:11.53IriX64gonna see how much of brlcad i can build with mingw32 :)
22:13.26*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096601317.dsl.bell.ca)
22:14.58csanyipalbrlcad: If you return here, and if you will, you can aswer to me e-mailing me to csanyipal@gmail.com
22:15.06csanyipalI must go now, buy!
22:33.10*** join/#brlcad marko1 (n=mark@cpe-74-72-195-92.nyc.res.rr.com)
23:26.09IriX64carnage :)
23:37.18louipcIriX64: you only check out once. after that you `svn update`
23:37.52IriX64why co works too got some update files like pcVariable.cpp whatever that is
23:38.11IriX64but ill adhere to your standard and use update
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081130

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081130

05:13.45*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@91.102.231.33)
05:27.44csanyipalHi
06:05.31*** join/#brlcad phreak4257 (n=phreak@71-210-20-69.eugn.qwest.net)
06:40.35csanyipalIs anybody here? I have a question.
06:44.11phreak4257i am here. probably cannot help, but shoot
06:44.18csanyipalok
06:46.20csanyipalI want to use Documentation for my Moodle BRL-CAD course. May I use it to translate some part of it or all?
06:47.23phreak4257i am just another user, and as such cannot grant or deny permission for anything...
06:47.30csanyipalok
06:48.02csanyipalthanks anyway
06:48.05phreak4257check the licenses, though... they look pretty friendly, so probably ok, but do check
06:48.14csanyipalok
06:48.57phreak4257btw, moodle?
06:49.05csanyipalyes?
06:49.57phreak4257just looked it up...
06:50.09csanyipalhttp://moodle.org/
06:50.09phreak4257are you a teacher or something?
06:50.15csanyipalI'm a teacher
06:50.22phreak4257where at?
06:50.46csanyipalin Europe, Serbia. I'm Hungarian
06:51.05phreak4257ahhh... thus the translation thing
06:51.12csanyipalyes.. :D
06:51.50phreak4257well, have fun with that, sorry i cannot help further
06:52.02csanyipalthanks anyway! :)
07:08.31*** join/#brlcad hml (n=x@unaffiliated/hml)
07:08.40hmlhow tightly coupled is brlcad and tcl?
07:08.44hmli'd really like to have a chicken scheme interface to it
07:12.42yukonbobhml: mged and tcl are tightly coupled, and likely archer
07:14.20yukonbobhml: but the core 'engine' is typically C libraries
07:14.26yukonbobie: librt, etc.
07:39.46hmlis there a publically downloadlab eset of brlcad models?
07:42.20yukonbobhml: there are some included with the distribution
07:42.29hmli'm looking for things like
07:42.30hml1000 tanks
07:42.34hml1000 planes etc ...
07:42.45hmltrying to build generaative models for what tanks  /planes / vehicles look like
07:42.51hmland then generaaating novel vehicles from my models
07:43.46yukonbobso, you're looking for thousands of examples, is what you're saying?
07:44.19hmlyes
07:44.32hmlthis is also purely for academic / research purposes
07:44.34hmlnon-commercial
07:44.36hmlif that matters at all
07:44.50yukonbobI don't know where you'll find that many models ;)
07:45.00hmli can find them; they're just not free
07:45.15hmli dont't hink going to my advisor and syaing: I need 50k to buy 1000 $50 3d models is a good idea
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21:55.32*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096601317.dsl.bell.ca)
21:56.01IriX64http://rafb.net/p/cxpH3E86.html   <---- has this one been reported?
21:56.34IriX64just change the name in the .h file to my_tie_kdtree and its happy
21:59.16IriX64http://rafb.net/p/bqyDAv73.html <-- and this one, i couldn't find a getloadavg function anywhere so i just stubbed it :)
22:02.48IriX64and the compile churns on :)
22:03.41IriX64louipc, i used update, works fine thanks.
22:06.25IriX64and that bwish thing, and others for that matter, wherevever you included {TK} in the link you have to include {X_LIBS} and be sure x_libs has -lXft and -lXss
22:14.26*** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=starseek@bz.bzflag.bz)
22:15.09starseekerauugh - no backscroll
22:25.18*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
22:39.58IriX64fbed.... is fraught :)
22:44.46Ralithfraught with anything in particular?
22:44.50Ralithor just fraught in general?
22:45.20IriX64peril :)
22:47.18IriX64for now ill just force the issue and carry on with what I *was doing :)
22:48.45IriX64sigh... lgt = fbed :(
23:47.26IriX64and a pocket protector :)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081201

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081201

00:49.58*** join/#brlcad phreak4257 (n=phreak@71-210-20-69.eugn.qwest.net)
01:05.11IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/latestcheckout.png
01:06.02IriX64think ill start using the blog if I can, hate advertising my name like this.
01:09.31IriX64that one has everything but fbed and lgt :)
02:43.49Axman6starseeker: arething in particular you missed?
02:44.04starseekerdon't know :-)
02:44.27Axman6well, i've got the scrollback for the last few days here if you want it :)
02:46.57starseekerAxman6:  Anything interesting happen?
02:48.29Axman6not that i can see... but i could paste the log, minus all the joins and parts if you like
02:49.01starseekerNah, that's OK - if there wasn't anything hot it's no big deal - thanks though :-)
02:49.16Axman6just trying to find when you left
02:49.32starseekerisn't sure - terminal session became defunct
02:50.17Axman6ah, found it, been a while since you've been here. looks like quite a bit
02:50.20Axman6's happened*
02:54.05Axman6bah, can;tfigure out how to save the window's log -_-
02:54.31brlcadwill catch up with log after foodage
02:57.07Axman6i got my uni marks back today, did pretty well :D
02:57.46Axman6HD, 2 D's and a CR
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04:12.53IriX64brlcad.... breaks gcc-4.2 alpaha
04:13.14Raliththat's probably why it's an alpha.
04:13.21IriX64heh yea
04:14.04IriX64trying my luck with 4.3.1
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14:34.53``Erikheh
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15:34.02mafmhi there!
16:03.31*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
16:40.10CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33260 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/ComboBox.tcl: Mods to fix the getText and setText methods.
16:43.23CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33261 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/ (Ged.tcl Makefile.am): Added the Ged cadwidget. This widget mainly wraps libtclcad's ged object.
16:43.36CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33262 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/tclIndex: Added the Ged cadwidget. This widget mainly wraps libtclcad's ged object.
16:50.38CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33263 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/ (Makefile.am labels.c scale.c): Added labels.c and scale.c for drawing primitive labels and a view scale.
17:28.59*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
17:32.43*** join/#brlcad mafm_ (n=mafm@89.181.90.58)
17:34.34CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33264 10/brlcad/trunk/ (17 files in 8 dirs):
17:34.34CIA-6BRL-CAD: Mods to get Archer using cadwidgets::Ged. This required adding functionality to
17:34.34CIA-6BRL-CAD: libtclcad/ged_obj (i.e. go_base2local, go_bg, go_bounds, go_faceplate,
17:34.34CIA-6BRL-CAD: go_model_axes, go_mouse_ray, go_prim_label, go_screen2model, go_screen2view,
17:34.35CIA-6BRL-CAD: go_transparency, go_view_axes, go_view_win_size). More structures were also
17:34.37CIA-6BRL-CAD: added to ged.h (i.e. ged_axes_state and ged_other_state).
17:58.10*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@89.180.4.70)
19:10.20*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1096601317.dsl.bell.ca)
19:10.57IriX64http://rafb.net/p/4id1kl64.html <--- are you interested in warnings suchh as these?
19:14.40IriX64and warnings about antiquated headers
19:39.57*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096601317.dsl.bell.ca)
19:45.17IriX64has replaced notepad with jove :)
19:45.33IriX64http://rafb.net/p/WPjv7q58.html   <---- this type of warning
19:59.33*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096601317.dsl.bell.ca)
20:50.55*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
21:00.26IriX64http://rafb.net/p/B6Bv9Q50.html    <---- this was ${TERMLIB}  i changed it to ${TERMLIB_LIBS}
21:13.21IriX64wonders about that fbed and lgt being fraught crack last night :)
21:16.54IriX64maybe i'll rename winsock.h, i get tired of editing brlcad_config.h every run :)
21:37.20IriX64why is missing complaing that automake-1.10 is missing, i have 1.10.1
21:45.55IriX64mc
21:46.48IriX64cheesey way of doing it add -L/${topbuilddir} -llibtermlib to LDFLAGS :)
21:47.34IriX64libcursor likes it
22:15.48IriX64bwish and mged both need -lXft -lXss  added to x_libs
22:19.13IriX64forgot the subdirector above plz forgive :)
22:22.13IriX64cd rttherm
22:23.09IriX64sampview in rttherm needs them too
22:24.15IriX64so do png-test and bombardier in utils
22:25.11IriX64err pl-dm in util
22:27.25IriX64two i haven't figured out yet, but a dummy way of having the build continue is to do a cp fbed.c fbed.exe and cp lgt.c lgt.exe :)
22:29.30CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33265 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/dm.h src/libdm/labels.c): Modify dm_draw_labels to return an int and declare in dm.h.
22:33.46CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33266 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/ (brlcad/brlcad.sln g2stl/g2stl.vcproj libdm/libdm.vcproj): Remove libged from lib input list for libdm. Add libgcv to lib input list for g2stl. Update the dependencies for libged and g2stl.
22:42.06IriX64btw, if you do a cp tclsh.exe tclsh85.exe html3 builds too
22:43.57IriX64http://rafb.net/p/5WLq4g39.html   <--- but at install time i get this and i don't speak this language, help
22:59.09IriX64ive adopted a rule of thumb, if ${TK} is in there it needs -lXss and -lXft :)
23:01.06*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
23:36.04IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/classic.png
23:36.12IriX64it built
23:36.46IriX64can somebody lend me an fbed and an lgt, thats all im missing :)
23:41.13IriX64http://rafb.net/p/ys6iuR52.html     <---- my configure line :)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081202

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081202

00:04.44IriX64microsoft in their infinite wisdom gives you 10 gigs of storage in your blog, but i cant for the life of me find a way to delete fils
00:04.55IriX64files too
00:05.04Ralithwhy are you using a microsoft service to blog? O.o
00:05.15IriX64cheap :)
00:05.25Raliththere are other, better, free services :P
00:05.46IriX64name 1
00:06.13Ralithoh, I don't know, wordpress? blogspot?
00:06.29IriX64hosted by?
00:06.56Ralithoh, I don't know, wordpress? blogspot?
00:07.24IriX64www.wordpress.com or org?
00:08.01Ralithwhich one offers a free blog service
00:08.31IriX64dunno i haven't visited them im just asking cause you seem to have experience with them
00:09.03RalithI suggest you dedicate at least the ten seconds require to test two domain names to considering them.
00:09.29IriX64im catious
00:09.34IriX64sp?
00:09.40IriX64cautios
00:09.40Ralithcautious
00:09.53Ralithblogspot is highly reputable
00:10.08IriX64so is microsoft :)
00:10.08Ralithiirc wordpress is too
00:10.11Ralithlol
00:12.11IriX64many services offering those
00:17.27IriX64should load the cygwin dll's and brlcad binaries to it wonder if anybody would try them
00:18.08IriX64next build ill try to do that
00:19.20Ralithyou're trying to build brl-cad under cygwin?
00:20.19IriX64that screenshot is my effort with cygwin
00:21.02Ralithbut... doesn't brl-cad run native?
00:21.09Raliththere's a .exe installer...
00:21.19IriX64i know :)
00:24.39Ralithso why all the effort for what is ultimately a less efficient binary?
00:24.59IriX64effiency be damned, its complete
00:25.21Ralithwhy?
00:25.56IriX64things the windows build doesn't have yet
00:26.02Ralithlike?
00:26.21IriX64pick something
00:26.31Ralithmged
00:26.49IriX64there does it include photon mapping
00:27.12IriX64thats the raytracer tho
00:28.27IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/7.14.1-round2.png
00:28.33Ralithdoes *any* version include photon mapping O.o
00:28.38IriX64photon mapped havoc
00:28.45Ralithoo, shadows
00:28.46Ralithfancy
00:28.56Ralithneeds some denoising though
00:29.27IriX64so does this channel ;)
00:29.41Ralithnot really
00:30.02IriX64woosh... im talking about me running off at the mouth
00:30.54Ralithso?
00:31.02Ralithnobody minds
00:31.12IriX64heh ok
00:31.21Ralithit's not like this is ##c++ or something
00:31.51Ralitha little offtopic encourages a friendly atmosphere
00:31.52IriX64i worry that these builds are tied to my system
00:32.15Raliththat doesn't seem likely
00:32.31IriX64found a cygwin mount point in my registry they better not have made the dlls go looking for that
00:32.33RalithI'd think they'd work on any x86 system w/ the right cygwin dlls accessible
00:32.40Ralithdon't think so
00:32.43IriX64hope so
00:32.50Ralithiirc, you can just drop the dlls in the same dir as the .exe, or even in a standard search dir
00:32.56IriX64u provide the xserver tho all right :)
00:33.02Ralithnot that system[32] doesn't get cluttered already.
00:33.25IriX64wouldnt put it there contained in the brlcad dir
00:34.01Ralithhehe
00:34.04Ralithmake a portable brlcad!
00:34.09IriX64yea
00:35.00IriX64ouch 18 dll's
00:35.20IriX64thats for ./configure --enable-everything tho
00:36.33Ralitheh
00:36.35Ralithnot a big deal
00:36.46IriX64true
00:36.47Ralithconsidering there are almost 400 binaries
00:36.58IriX64they work man
00:37.29Ralith?
00:37.31IriX64if you run across something that asks for a dll let me know ill provide it :)
00:37.43RalithI don't run windows
00:37.46Ralithso, uh, thanks :P
00:37.48IriX64ah
00:37.55IriX64:)
00:38.05IriX64very few here do i think
00:38.38Ralithindeed
00:56.00Ralithhehe
00:56.06Ralithhttp://brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html
00:56.09RalithModeling
00:56.21Ralith# <st>Model a moose</st>
00:56.26Ralith# Model another moose!
01:07.14IriX64HAHA it works with Xwin32, im gonna package it :)
01:07.46IriX64guess i better make it a zip file, names anyone..
01:10.53IriX64little bat file to set the paths and startup mged and everybodys happy
01:12.05IriX64ill show you a moose :)
01:18.57IriX64weeps, they give you 5 gigs but each file is max 50 meg
01:19.09IriX64mine is 1.3 gig
01:20.25IriX64sympatico won't handle it either, all I have there is 1 gig space
01:39.03IriX64ill be back when i find some place to put it :)
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04:31.12yukonbobhello, cadheads
05:13.53*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177592943.dsl.bell.ca)
05:16.01IriX64where would one place a Cygwin build of brlcad-7.14.1, it's a 1.3 gig zip file, way to big for my spot on sympatico.
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08:15.43CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33267 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/BrlcadCore.def: added mk_hyp (for asc2g)
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11:50.06*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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12:15.49mafmhi
12:20.49claymorehai mafm!
12:21.02``Erikclaymore, silence, I will beat your ass, boy
12:21.03``Erik:D
12:21.12*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@76-10-183-62.dsl.teksavvy.com)
12:22.12mafmbad ``Erik... let claymore to greet me!
12:22.18claymorecannot properly convey the amount of laughter that Erik's comment evoked.
12:23.16claymorewatched 'Hancock' this weekend. Quite surprising actually.
12:26.28claymoreI thought it would be just another Moderately funny Will Smith movie... had quite a bit more plot to it than the previews let on.  Almost had a bit of M. Night Shamalan feel to it...
12:30.39claymoreoh, and hai ``Erik !
12:31.24``Erik*wave*
12:31.41``Erikare you opting out of the lunch gathering yet again?
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12:32.00claymorewasn't in at work yesterday... whats the occasion?
12:32.20``Erikum, it gets to be 11:30, that's the occasion
12:32.28``Erikthursday is the branch lunch I think
12:32.56claymoreyeah, not today.  Did a ginormous xmas gift shopping run this weekend so I need to be a bit frugal :/
12:33.05``Erik<-- eats out ~3 days a week
12:33.42``Erikyeah, I don't grok that, I'm a measly db2 and I still seem to have money to blow
12:33.52``Erikof course, I don't have a whif or chillinz
12:34.11claymoreyeah, a fam is 'spensive, but worth it imo :)
12:34.22``Erikmy gf has chillinz
12:34.38claymorelil dj's?
12:34.43``Erikskeers me like mad, but *shrug* it's fun at the same time
12:34.50``Erikheh, possibly :D
12:35.05claymorewell, once they are potty trained, it becomes a lot of fun.
12:35.36``ErikI bought the boy an electronics kit last year, he busted it out a week ago and got back into it, I assume that means I need another edutainment gift
12:35.51``Erikand the 6yo girl, well, she wants girl shit, I guess
12:36.03``Erikthis is all highly disturbing and confusing for me, I'm not used to children
12:36.16claymoreMy oldest is into starwars and transformers.  Just this weekend, he dressed up in his Bumblebee (transformers) Halloween costume and informed me:  14 years ago, i was severly burned in a horrible Hot Chocolate accident and they had to put me in this suit so I would live.  Then they game me a lightsaber.
12:37.05``Eriktransformers was damn awesome in the 80's, and star wars was in the 70's...
12:37.41claymoreget the 6yo girl a 13 peice Pearl Drumset :)
12:38.04``Erikhuh? "pearl drumset"? I fail to grok
12:38.25``ErikI do not like the keyboard on the new mac stuff
12:39.28claymorejust an example:  http://www.guitarcenter.com/Pearl-Chad-Smith-Signature-4-piece-Shell-Pack-501402-i1429408.gc
12:40.01``Erikno, she liked my guitar a lot
12:40.09``Erikthe boy didn't give a shit
12:41.13claymoreWell, you were looking for 'girl gift' ideas, and based on what I have assertained from this irc channel, this gift would be ideal for Punk's lil gurl :)
12:41.40``Erikhttp://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=41982727&albumID=832752&imageID=13065948
12:42.04claymoreprivate profile.
12:42.14``Erikdoh
12:42.43claymorealthough, "Some of the public profiles I might find interesting" are borderling nsfw lol.
12:42.52claymoreborderline even :/
12:42.53``Erikwell, das yougn adores the guitar
12:43.37claymoregood girl :)
12:43.41``Erikyes, I am quite borderline, a 'similar' scan might bring quite nswf results O.o
12:44.49``ErikI can get her baubles and as long as she has more than her brother, she's happy... the boy is 11 and I feel a certain commitment to make everything educational, which gets tricky
12:45.47``Eriklast xmas, I bought him an electronics kit... he liked it for a short period, went back to video games, then a week ago, he drug it out from under his bed and played with it again
12:45.52archivistCD of man pages
12:45.57claymoreget him a laptop and a book: "How to make money playing WoW' ...set him on the path of studying business ;)
12:46.36``Erikheh, no, he already wants to play wow too much, mostly when I want to play with erica :)
12:47.09``Erikwoops, 7:45, ti's drive time, be there in 45
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13:17.58brlcadthinks he should give his sore throat one more day before he brings it in to share it with others
13:18.29brlcadhm, maybe a half-day late to give it some time to defester
13:44.18*** join/#brlcad sporty (n=mega@217.8.236.176)
13:44.32starseekerbrlcad:  Nah, say home
13:44.34sportystarseeker: please check email
13:44.40starseekerwould get it just as he starts to travel
13:44.43starseekersporty:  OK, will do
13:44.54starseekersporty:  Sorry, been busy at work
13:45.00sportystarseeker: i have a long-term question
13:45.13starseekeralrighty
13:45.20sportystarseeker: no, it was me who was busy at work
13:45.40starseekernp, work does that
13:45.48starseekerneeds to run actually, bbl
13:45.53starseekertime to play in traffic
13:46.15sportystarseeker: is there any chance to see some first steps towards "automatic dimensioning" feature. I know dxflibs, which are a part of the foss...
13:46.26sportystarseeker: ok
13:50.10sportystarseeker: i've sent to wrong address, i guess
13:51.47brlcadsporty: our dxf importer/exporter are a better than dxflib in quite a few ways, but that gets us no closer to automatic dimensioning ;)
13:52.49sportybrlcad: no, i mean libs of program code from ribbonsoft.com, which are free and offer some basic views and dimensions -capabilities
13:52.54brlcadbut that said, there are some first steps under way already
13:53.09brlcadone of the gsoc projects is heavily related to dimensioning
13:53.30sportylike what? I mean i really want that Pro-Engineer-like feature
13:53.38brlcadsporty: that's the same dxflib that i'm referring to
13:54.04brlcadtheir primary purpose is import/export of dxf -- *that* we do a bit better than dxflib
13:54.33brlcadas well as view rendering
13:54.38brlcadbut that's another story
13:54.59sporty"gsoc" - Government Owes Secondary Concerns" ?? What's that!??
13:54.59brlcadautomatic dimensioning has a lot more to do with application logic that format support
13:55.04brlcad~gsoc
13:55.05ibotfrom memory, gsoc is the Google Summer of Code, a program run annually by Google to provide (paid for) jobs to students to code on open source projects over summer.  See http://code.google.com/soc/ for details.
13:56.10brlcadyou can read about our 4 students and their projects at http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2008
13:56.49brlcad"Parametric Equations and Constraint Support" is the one that will eventually get us nifty *automatic* constrained and context-aware dimensioning
13:57.25brlcadcan't wait for his D90 to arrive today
13:58.15sportyok... I just see i'm really using e.g. pipe runs as models for analysis - as an engineer... Automatic dimensioning can dramatically reduce and change the process of the work... Week has 40 working hours, and sometimes it could be easy to create e.g. some plates with holes and facets for both, analysis and dimensioning
13:59.53sportythinks D90 is just some modern mobile phone...
14:00.13sportyah!
14:01.13sportyok, 3, 2, 1, ignition, java -jar $HOME/toonel.jar, start! surfing web!
14:17.54sportystarseeker: ok, i've sent mail to mailbox, hope yours... reboot to windows, getting tea... tons of the things...
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14:22.10brlcadNikon D90 ... and it just arrived
14:22.11sporty"I don't have my own opinion about this, don't think I'm intelligent"
14:22.25brlcadis a giddy giddy boy at the moment with his new toy
14:23.52brlcadsporty: I totally understand all of the potential benefits .. it's just a matter of horsepower and priorities
14:23.53sportybrlcad: and get the song of depeche mode - photographic: the lights on, switch on, the program of today... lights on, swith on, your eyes are far away... The photo represents you and the tape is your voice, la-la-la!
14:23.56brlcadwe need more horses
14:24.20sportybrlcad: but... we don't have carrot to feed them?
14:24.36brlcadenlistens to depeche mode - photographic
14:25.22brlcadhm, it's a little ADD :)
14:25.47sportywhat?
14:26.14sportyenlooks into Bloodhound Gang's ChasseyLane
14:26.27brlcad~add
14:26.28ibotsomebody said add was the auto descruction device in debian
14:26.34brlcadheh, well that's not right
14:27.24brlcad~add is also sometime used to refer to Attention Deficit Disorder, see also ADHD
14:27.25ibotbrlcad: okay
14:27.55sportybrlcad: don't understand you, i think you need to travel to Amsterdam like that guy at the Eurotrip
14:28.04sportyi mean with Nicon
14:28.54sportyah!.. btw, can yo call some real uses of brl-cad?
14:29.02brlcadall I said is that the depeche mode song is a little hyperactive .. attention defeating ..
14:29.21brlcadi'd love to go to amsterdam
14:29.39brlcadoof, lots of uses
14:29.53sportyi mean, does e.g. army uses it as modeler of complicated topologies, do they try to "trace" lasers of new weapons > :)
14:30.17brlcadread the second paragraph -- http://brlcad.org/d/about
14:31.09brlcadI don't think that we've been used for any laser work, at least not directly, though I could be wrong
14:31.29clock_brlcad: Photographic is an excellent one!
14:31.46claymoremodeled a shark with a frickin lazerbeam on its head....
14:32.09sportyhyperactive? but this is exactly what fiils me with energy... You know, i have such an old radio as those from 50th, with two 20-inch dynamics and lamps as amplifiers - so this song throw the masses of air in my apartment!
14:32.10brlcadone of the primary uses is to represent a given military asset (like a tank) and then the analysis codes (which are not part of BRL-CAD) then use BRL-CAD's ray trace library to query the geometry
14:32.54brlcadsporty: I can imagine .. just a bit much for 9am, no matter how giddy I am :)
14:33.01sportyclaymore: i think you did it for Dr. Evil :)
14:33.27brlcadsporty: maybe he *IS* Dr. Evil....
14:33.45brlcadputs pinky to his lip .. O.o
14:34.07sportyHow abou "Always on my mind" of pet shop boys?
14:34.53brlcadheh, another 'old school'
14:34.58brlcadso 80's
14:35.15claymorelikes his XSi... the D90 just didn't feel right. The 720pHD video was a tempting feature though.....
14:35.56brlcadloves how it feels :)
14:36.10brlcadlooking forward to trying out the video feature
14:36.22claymore...well i had a few lenses also, so that swayed me a bit ;)
14:36.34claymorebut I hear the D90 rocks.
14:36.53brlcadand the high-speed SSD .. curious how fast full raw burst will go
14:37.55claymoremy mother inlaw has the Rebel tx (aka 2+ years old now) and it will put down close to 10 shots a second in full raw.  (JPEG is actually slower...)
14:38.29claymoreour xsi clocks in at a bit slower than that, but then again its taking a 12mp image vice a 10mp of the xt
14:38.40sportybrlcad: oh... i'm... oh!
14:38.41brlcadi got a nice 15-105 to accompany my 50 and a tele
14:38.54``Erikdetonates
14:39.30``Erikmy fanciest camera is built into my laptop :(
14:40.19claymoreearly xmas gift brlcad?
14:40.43sportyi have no camera at all... i'm taking pictures of random ladies in my head, i can do about thouthand shots a minute!
14:40.44archivistwants a Canon body to go with lenses
14:42.20``Erikhum, pg got noted on smacksnot
14:44.37brlcadclaymore: I've had a new camera on my todo for about 2 years -- new place was just a good timing/excuse to get it
14:45.33brlcadand seeing the d90 fix the issues I had with the d50 and d40x .. it was the money shot
14:46.03brlcadsporty: isn't that called "browsing pr0n"?
14:46.27sporty"browsing pr0n" - what is it?
14:46.39brlcadwow, not on irc much are ya? :)
14:47.01brlcad~pr0n
14:47.22brlcadporn ;)
14:47.24sporty"Productive Radical Zero(0)-No", what exactly means :Yes:? Or what?
14:47.44sportybrlcad: rather erotiqua
14:49.56sportyDoes anyone played/ participated in rally as e.g. rally on cars?
14:56.41brlcadi'm sure 'someone' but apparently nobody here ;)
14:57.05``Erikjay-lo does it, sorta, I think
14:57.24``ErikI bought the car and am too scared to drive it, heh :D
15:04.20sportyок, but i'm playing CMRR 2005
15:05.35sporty``Erik: why don't you try your car at remote icy spots?
15:06.17sportywe have about -55 -65 fahrenheit right now...
15:06.26sportycoldy...
15:11.02sportyWhat does "signal-processing" mean? signal-treatment or signal-processing? Can i say "it can produce images and signals" ??
15:12.22sportyor does it "calculates" it? What is a suitable synonim for word "processing" in this case?
15:14.57clock_manipulation maybe
15:15.04sportyok
15:15.27sportymanipulation or treatment
15:23.17brlcadit means we have a variety of tools that will take a given data stream (1D, 2D, whatever) and perform operations on that (signal) data -- high pass filter, low pass filter, combine, blur, etc
15:37.37sportybrlcad: it means e.g. transparecy and reflectivity - i.e. analisys of e.g. airplane shape on the respective amount of reflected waves (of whatever spectrum)
15:37.58sportybrlcad: or is it banned in foss edition?
15:38.12sportybrlcad: my government wants to know!
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16:20.02CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33268 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libtclcad/ged_obj.c tclscripts/lib/Ged.tcl): Added local2base command to libtclcad's ged object and update cadwidgets:Ged
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16:38.37CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33269 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Activate wizard plugins and the primitive creation buttons in Archer.
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17:35.58sportybrlcad: are you a part of brl-cad team?
17:36.40sporty...(or just a sophisticated djedaj of programming)?
17:37.13sportyif yes, tell me if you can catch the file (10 kb.) thru IM
17:38.16sportystarseeker: so? have you thrown a look to files? btw, i guess i've forgot your e-mail. Mine is ilyaglkn@gmail.com
17:54.09sportyok, i have a chance to sleep at a bench - so i switch off my thinkpad r-series and will be off line few hours. Just put a wall st. journal as a blanket. Ah! had to sell my bentley - and have to sleep on a bench in a university! What a times.
17:54.58claymorestares at that last post..... blink.... blink....
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18:26.11brlcadenglish is a fickle beast at times
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18:33.13starseekersporty:  Um.  Are these translations or creation of new MGED man pages?
18:33.58claymorebrlcad:  was more shocked at the content of the post....
18:38.37brlcadstarseeker: tab-completion :)
18:39.17brlcadclaymore: oh, that didn't even seem odd to me for some reason :)
18:39.43starseekerbrlcad:  Ah, right
18:40.00brlcadi sent him an e-mail
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19:38.52IriX64regards :)
19:41.57IriX64http://rafb.net/p/kWUfxp42.html   <----- whats the story here, is this me or you?
19:46.56IriX64you're probably wondering how i got it to install anyway, i reworked make so it has a -i switch, if -i is set it ignores errors from subprocesses and keeps on trucking :)
19:48.23IriX64ill provide source if you want it, the binaries are unique to my system.
19:52.12IriX64http://rafb.net/p/XArEqM89.html   <--- make -i install
19:56.35IriX64tried to upload the binaries to hobbes.nmsu 3 times, lost connection every time, gave up in disgust :(
20:03.20IriX64http://rafb.net/p/d68nFM87.html <---- runtime happiness  :)
20:04.30IriX64Xwin32 is happy talking to mged :)
20:05.01IriX64thanks for letting me ramble brlcad
20:06.43IriX64still crashes when i do a file->open
20:06.49IriX64from the gui
20:09.08IriX64http://rafb.net/p/gCPzNm99.html   <---- this is the crash
20:12.02IriX64bonus ogl attaches too
20:12.30IriX64you guys write good code
20:25.50IriX64http://rafb.net/p/CdYT5317.html    <----- by the way this was missing from configure.ac
20:48.24IriX64http://rafb.net/p/lEjS1X94.html  <----- what my systems doing right now :)
20:52.21IriX64for now i hard coded -lxft and -lxss into configure.ac till i can find a way of testing for them
21:08.26IriX64http://rafb.net/p/2Qk7W140.html   <--- a clean starting from autogen, --enable-everything run, didn't trap once :)
21:10.48IriX64tkhtml3 install thing is still there though :(
21:20.15IriX64hah forced the issue and ive got a fresh build of brlcad
21:30.01*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
21:30.05*** kick/#brlcad [IriX64!n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz] by brlcad (ugh, the channel rules haven't changed -- don't spew pastes and chatter (for nearly two hours!) if nobody is engaging in the discussion)
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21:31.59IriX64msg received
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081203

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081203

00:01.43*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
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01:22.52IriX64http://rafb.net/p/aYKzB432.html    <-----   this fixed myy libcursor problem :)
01:26.04brlcadIriX64: *what* fixed your libcursor problem?
01:26.18IriX64the -L stuff i added
01:26.43IriX64might not be what you and your people want but its a good patch
01:28.18brlcadthen you should just say that instead of pastebinning the entire file without any hint as to what you did or why you did it
01:28.36IriX64forgive, i was ecited
01:28.37brlcadotherwise you're just wasting people's time
01:28.41IriX64excited too
01:29.05brlcadwell, you were so excited that the fix isn't even in the link that you pasted
01:29.36brlcadmore case in point towards why you should just share the minimum when you think you have to "fix" something
01:30.05IriX64okay
01:30.08brlcadi highly doubt that "-L/${top_builddir}/src/o" fixed anything
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01:31.02IriX64thats supposed to read -L${top_builddir}/src/other/libtermlib -llibtermlib
01:31.35brlcadI see you're still making random edits too -- TERMLIB_LIBS isn't defined anywhere and the -L you needed should have come from CURSOR_LIBS
01:32.12brlcadso you broke it and fixed it, congrats
01:32.47IriX64well i am trying
01:33.32``Erikdiffs
01:33.38``Erikwe like diffs, not files
01:33.56IriX64never played with diff ``Erik
01:34.01``Erikwell, start
01:34.06``Eriksvn diff
01:34.08``Erikdiff -u
01:34.14IriX64where do they be sent to?
01:34.15brlcadwe have had this talk before -- there are more constructive ways you could/should contribute
01:34.18IriX64never mind
01:34.33IriX64got it
01:34.52``Erikif you just dump an entire file into a url, we'll probably ignore it
01:34.58``Erikbe succint, minimal
01:35.08``Erikdiff is a good way to do that
01:35.18IriX64ill practice it
01:35.24IriX64err study it first
01:35.33``Erikin the unix world, diff and patch are the yin and the yang
01:35.40IriX64ha ok
01:36.05IriX64ill clean up my act
01:36.16``Erikif you need help with those, let us know, I knwo I'd be willing to spend some time, but grok that it's critical, aight? :)
01:36.30IriX64right :)
01:36.55``Erikbrlcad, I had something I wanted to talk to you about, btu I forgot
01:36.58``Eriklike a jr hacker, uh
01:37.00``Erikohyeah
01:37.06``Erikversion on mged
01:37.18brlcadque?
01:37.26``Erikis that ok? can a jr hacker implement a -v on mged?
01:37.31brlcadoh
01:37.44``Eriksince mged is our primary binary exposure for most folk
01:37.45brlcadsure
01:38.10``Erikand I coulda hacked it out in under an hour, but I feel like it'd be a valuable lesson to a new developer
01:38.32brlcadheh, "under an hour"? I'd hope so..
01:38.44``Erikyeah, well, 5 minutes sounded arrogant in my head
01:40.15brlcadcase 'v': bu_log("%s\n", brlcad_ident("MGED R|_|L3Z! lol.")); break;
01:41.38brlcadso who they be?
01:41.50``Erikwell, but do we want to follow the rt example of including all dependant libraries?
01:42.21``ErikI think maybe irix would be happy doing a real code submission opposed to build weirdness
01:42.33brlcaddoesn't matter to me, so long as the version isn't hard-coded into a source file
01:44.24brlcadit does already set the version to the 'version' variable iirc
01:44.41``Erikthere is no -V or -v option, though
01:44.59brlcadyeah, mged -c test.g set version
01:45.35``ErikI did an "mged -v" expecting to see "7.13.0", and it did not do that
01:46.11``Erikgiven that 99% of users will assume 'mged' is "THE BINARY", ... yeah
01:46.18``Erikknow what I mean, vern?
01:48.03brlcadsure
01:48.10brlcadmake sense
01:48.59brlcadonly thing worth noting, though, is I don't think we have a single command that uses -v for version info .. the handful that use it treat is as a verbosity flag
01:49.11brlcadnot reason to not do it, but just a sideline
01:49.15``Erikhrm, would -V be better?
01:50.10``ErikI was recently disappointed with how poor our versioning system was, when it noted, it did it well... but it was hard to invoke
01:50.39brlcadverbose should probably be -V, then version on -v
01:50.44brlcadalong with long opts
01:50.52``Erikwe don't do long opts, do we?
01:50.54brlcadbut that's a task for another day/time/person/place
01:52.42brlcadstill have to implement bu_getopt_long
01:52.57``Erikfightes the portability issue heh
02:02.22``Erikfbed requires curses? has bob handled this?
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02:18.10``Erikgentoo is for ricers
02:23.09brlcadfbed hasn't been ported
02:23.22brlcadnone of the termio/curses apps
02:41.47IriX64whats wrong with the Help->about window in the gui ?
02:42.55IriX64or reading the freaking documentation and see what version you're *trying to use :)
02:43.16brlcadnothing, that's just a different feature
02:43.31brlcadwhat's wrong with doing cad with pen and paper? .. nothing.
02:43.49brlcadjust some expect things in different ways, -v for versioning being one of them
02:43.54IriX64mged --about
02:45.51brlcadwe go for it
02:46.01IriX64:)
02:46.14brlcadthat's no less work than -v
02:46.25IriX64could be easier actually
02:47.02brlcadnope
02:47.13IriX64there currently are no -- switches on mged tho
02:47.26brlcadwhich is exactly why I said nope
02:47.31brlcadthere's a reason for that
02:47.32IriX64ah
02:49.34IriX64hahh libcursor.dll.a
02:52.46IriX64where do my diffs go when i send them tho, would hate to bugger anybodys work but my own.
02:56.32brlcaddepends entirely what you are diffing
02:56.35brlcadand why
02:57.00IriX64http://rafb.net/p/VDCeHq87.html  <---- you expect me to learn all this in a day :)
02:57.01brlcadpastebin to see if they're useful, then someone can review
02:57.19brlcaddiffs shouldn't be quick fixes -- they should be proper mods that work for everyone
02:57.30IriX64ahh ok but still if thats your code tree, i could screw up really bad
03:01.50brlcadit doesn't magically get applied
03:01.59brlcadit's applied after being reviewed
03:02.17brlcadjust don't wast folks time with patches you *know* can't be applied
03:02.27IriX64so its just a storage  space with no chance of buggering anybody?
03:03.25IriX64ill try to learn how to use, can i practice or is there a url i can practice on?
03:04.09Ralithpractice what?
03:04.17IriX64using diff
03:04.32Ralithdiff is a program you use on your computer to get a computer-readable list of changes
03:04.46IriX64i readily admit i know sfa about it
03:04.51Ralithif you're using svn
03:04.52Ralithwhich you are
03:05.05Ralithjust go to the brl-cad root dir and do svn diff > somefile.diff
03:05.23brlcadIriX64: no, you're not expected to learn it all in a day .. but just because the tool has a lot of options doesn't mean you need them all either
03:05.43brlcadI highly doubt you know all of the options to bash, yet you use it every day via cygwin
03:05.49IriX64thanks to both
03:05.52brlcadfollow this: http://www.kegel.com/academy/opensource.html
03:05.57IriX64true brlcad
03:06.38IriX64bookmarked, thanks i will peruse it
03:07.14brlcadit'll take all of a half hour to read and follow at best, and should explain everything
03:07.23IriX64thanks
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05:31.35starseeker``Erik:  "gentoo is for ricers" - them's fight'in words
05:31.45Ralithtrue, though
05:31.46Ralith:>
05:32.09louipcyep
05:32.13starseekerprefers "gentoo is for people who compile lots of random crap so obscure it has no package in any Linux distro"
05:32.41starseekerLinux From Scratch is for ricers :-)
05:34.04louipcwell it's not so bad if you update rarely
05:34.24starseekerWhat, gentoo?
05:34.30louipcyea
05:34.56starseekerupdates every few days when he's staying "current", otherwise every few months
05:34.58louipcor any source based distro really
05:35.58louipcstarseeker: you should try arch ;)
05:36.06starseeker:-)
05:36.40starseekerdid use Debian for a while, then got tired of tracking down -dev add-ons to packages so he could compile obscure mathematical stuff
05:37.13starseekerwould probably consider Ubuntu today if he were starting over in distro choice
05:37.38louipcheaders are included in arch
05:37.45starseekerStill, the gentoo forums are a truly awesome resource
05:38.23louipchow's the wiki doing nowadays?
05:38.25starseekerlouipc:  you use arch?
05:38.32louipcyep
05:38.40starseekerlouipc:  The gentoo wiki?  good question
05:38.43starseekerchecks
05:38.54louipcthey were rebuilding it yeah?
05:39.24starseekeryep
05:39.31starseekerlooks like they're still trying to
05:40.06louipccool
05:40.10starseekerstill thinks it's kind of unbelievable that their database had no backups and went down the crapper
05:40.31louipcheh heh
05:40.39louipcI'm not too surprised
05:41.48louipcI thought they lost it because the company that was hosting them was locked out of the data centre
05:41.54starseekeris worried that without the former pages as the core a "rewrite" will end up losing a lot
05:41.59starseekerlouipc:  right
05:42.03louipcthey just didn't have off-site backups
05:42.21starseekerwhich I find surprising for such a major company resource
05:42.26starseekerer distro resource
05:42.31louipcyea
05:42.41Ralithhow did that happen?
05:42.47Ralithalso how does something that major not get backed up?
05:43.08louipclack of resources?
05:43.32starseeker's best guess is it was either unofficial or "pseudo-ficial", and thus not part of the distribution's failsafe mechanisms for websites
05:44.08louipcyea possibly
05:44.26starseekerEven the Google cache or archive.org's copy would have been a place to start though, assuming they had made them
05:44.34starseekersaw at least a few pages in Google cache
05:45.49starseekerThey seem to have opted for a complete redo, which is dangerous because it throws away all the momentum built up (plus people will have to either re-learn how to do stuff or dig up a copy of the old page as a starting point, both potentially time consuming
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07:47.54sportystarseeker: so?
07:48.19sportystarseeker: was it yours mail box i've sent my email to?
07:48.59sportystarseeker: SiriusSnickersMars@candy.com , right?
07:49.51sportyor SeriuosSnickersMars@choc.cy
07:50.14sportyah i guess you sleep...
08:15.07sportystarseeker: i need to know e.g. if i can use <pre></pre> tags in .xml
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08:24.00sportyCan "em" command help me to save regions as shells of 3D-bodies?
08:24.35Ralithsporty: shells of 3D bodies?
08:24.48sportyCan i save pipe as a shell - what if i want to mesh it then and assign a thickness?
08:25.20sportyRalith: yes, exactly for FEM FEA - analizes. This feature exists in ANSYS.com
08:25.29sportyWhy do i need this?
08:25.49Ralithyou want to export a mesh?
08:25.59Ralithtrimesh, that is
08:26.01sportyshells tremendously reduce CPU time needed for calculations
08:26.51sportyRalith: well, i can mesh it with another program as e.g. geuz.org/gmsh/ - i want to export this shells as e.g. IGES or Ideas or something
08:27.08sportytrimesh ? I don't know this command
08:27.22Raliththat is not a command
08:27.24Ralithit is a noun
08:27.26sportyok, will see
08:27.35Ralithso you want to export surfaces?
08:28.00sportyRalith: yes, well, as an option to all
08:28.04Raliththere is a g-iges program which is not part of mged but is part of the greater brl-cad suite
08:28.14sportyok
08:28.19RalithI'm not sure how well it works or how to use it, but it probably does what you want.
08:28.32sportyRalith: and itlies in /usr/share/brlcad ??
08:28.46Raliththat would depend on your installation
08:29.04Ralithif you installed brl-cad to /usr/share/brlcad, the binary would be at /usr/share/brlcad/bin/g-iges
08:29.16sportyok, right
08:29.52Ralithrun it without arguments for help
08:29.55sportyso how about to export the middle of the pipe's thickness as a shell? I need trimesh?
08:29.58sporty~trimesh
08:30.15Ralithwhat do you mean by "the middle of the pipe's thickness"?
08:30.23sportyok, not right now - i will have checked this
08:31.20sportyi meant its wall's thickness - i would like to export pipe in describing of a shell or as a mesh
08:31.40sportyRalith: ok, don't think about it now - i only study brlcad
08:34.13RalithIf you've modeled a hollow pipe, my guess is that exporting surfaces will give you two concentric cylendrical surfaces, one for the inside, one for the outside.
08:44.46sportyRalith: ok... I mean another capability then. I need a "center" of the wall to create a surface and save it as still a "vector" graphics - or save it as a mesh (with relatively little characteristic length to prevent singularities in fem-analysis)
08:46.18Ralitha center?
08:46.37Ralithmaybe you should just experiment with g-iges and see if it gets you what you need
08:46.46RalithI'm having trouble understanding you
08:47.17sportyRalith: a "middle" of the wall produces a shell of a hollow pipe, then i assign a thickness of the wall and have a pipe, made of shell finite elements.
08:48.21sportyRalith: yes, i have not tried g-iges yet. I will've tried it. But i'm trying me english human language then :)
08:48.25sporty*my
08:50.14RalithI'm not really familiar with it, but I thought finite element analysis needed a mesh
08:54.35sportyRalith: it need a "smart" mesh to avoid faults - and saving "as shell" is smart - if you want to try relatively "rough" meshes and then more "accurate" ones. Or you might want a rough mesh at the centers (longitudinal) and accurate at the ends of a pipe.
08:56.12sportywell, i just fill xml from mged_cmd_index.html - and wanted to know a bit more, so don't, so don't try to understand what's on my mind
08:58.36sportyRalith: do you know starseeker's email?
08:58.46Ralithafraid not
08:58.49Ralithit's probably not too hard to find
08:58.59sportyi send letters - and folks telll me who i am
08:59.19sportyRalith: you mean Author's page?
08:59.22Ralithcheck the sourceforge developers list; that might have a way to contact him
09:00.35sportymy days' megabytes of internet equals one ise cream or just 0.3 usd... I have an agreement with mommy to stay far from sourceforge sites at a daylight :)
09:00.52Ralithheh
09:01.03Ralithprice-per-mb does suck.
09:01.12Ralithbrl-cad can probably do what you need; it was made for analysis in something like that vein, after all.
09:01.22sporty...but i have a trick: java -jar $HOME/toonel.jar
09:01.22RalithI'm not the best reference on it, though
09:01.27Ralith?
09:01.40sportyWhat ??
09:01.48Ralithw/e
09:01.56Ralithgood luck contacting starseeker
09:01.57sportyusing proxy for internet
09:02.02Ralithhe'll probably be around later
09:02.03sportyok
09:02.20sportyi know - but i will be offline
09:03.58sportysudo standupandgo --clean=flat -Right now
09:04.46Ralithtry starseeker@users.sourceforge.net
09:04.55sportyok
09:04.55Ralithno idea if it'll get to him via that, but better than nothing
09:06.23sportyRalith: maybe you know it: Can i use <pre></pre> tags in xml?
09:06.42Ralithhonestly I have no idea
09:06.45Ralithtry it and see?
09:07.13Ralithit depends a lot on what *kind* of xml (what you're doing with it), but even if you provided details I just don't know enough to tell you.
09:07.48*** join/#brlcad frozeniron (n=phreak@67-42-56-208.eugn.qwest.net)
09:08.37sportyRalith: i can not preview it on my local computer - se la we ;)
09:09.30sportyxml files of enlarged command reference of brlcad
09:10.22sportyi see it as text with tags, i can not "plug" openoffice to jre, i can not download too much from internet
09:11.14Ralithsorry, can't help
09:13.01sportyRalith: why are you behind pc this time? it's probably night there where you are? Here where i am it is an end of a cold-cold day...
09:14.29Ralithwhy not?
09:14.43clock_sporty: it's also pretty cold here
09:16.51*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
09:35.55*** join/#brlcad sporty (n=mega@217.8.236.129)
09:36.14sportysudo cleancarpet -! -@ -# -$ -% now... oh my...
10:57.02*** join/#brlcad sporty (n=mega@217.8.236.129)
11:07.26sportymy new connection goes offline sometimes...
11:07.39sportystarseeker: are you here right now?
11:17.46sportyi've not used <pre></pre> tags, but there were random <para></para> as paragraphs...
11:19.36sportystarseeker: edit few commands on rus as final variant with that fields <refentry id="...">
11:23.31*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
11:26.13sportyelite01: hello!
11:26.28sportyelite01: is it a morning already?
11:26.47elite01sure
11:26.50elite01hi there :)
11:27.01sportyand we have a dinner
11:27.01elite0112:27 local time
11:27.22sportyah... you're in Europe?
11:27.38elite01yeah
11:27.51sportyCome on! you're in east europe, man!
11:28.06sportyWhat are you doing there?
11:28.16elite01eh, i'm in germany
11:28.29sportyelite01: what languages except english do you know?
11:28.40elite01german, and a little french
11:29.51elite01and you?
11:30.01sportyi have most of brlcad's commands as separate xml files, prepared for translation to number of languages - can you instead of e.g. "Provides a delay of the specified time before the next command will be processed."
11:30.27sportyi know only my native, english, and study french grammar
11:30.43elite01ah, want me to translate stuff to german?
11:31.04sportyi mean you can edit it in plain text editor - all the text is already pasted at the place
11:31.31sportyelite01: not really - just *some* commands to boost humans to do it
11:31.46elite01no problem
11:31.58sportylike in, make, quit, delay and those non-complicated
11:33.00elite01yeah, i'll get on it when i have some time
11:33.03elite01where are the xml files?
11:33.12sportyelite01: when starseeker will have edited my files I'd sent him properly - i will send you some commands. I think it's about a hour to spend to almost all commands
11:33.53elite01sounds ok
11:33.59elite01i have to go in a short while
11:34.12sportyelite01: later, when starseeker's mom will have given him butterbread as a dinner
11:34.17sportyelite01: ok
11:36.10sportyun garçon el tends to la femmé
11:38.10archivistwonders if the web structure for languages will be clean like mysql
11:39.58archivistnote placement of version and language code http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/rename-database.html
11:41.36archivistthe page name retains english regardless of language
11:48.43sportyarchivist: ok, i just try to study it by means of attempts and mistakes.
11:49.26sportyarchivist: is it a big web-page (in kilobytes)?
11:50.23archivistindividual pages are not too large, but there are lots of them
11:55.56sportyarchivist: i mean this page you've called - my traffic is limited!
11:57.06archivistnot big at all
11:57.42archivistand that particular page has a link to japanese version
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12:24.16*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177592943.dsl.bell.ca)
12:25.05IriX64louipc, i tried -diff, it did the whole bloody tree
12:25.43IriX64do you have to say brlcad/src/other/libtermlib for instance?
12:48.06*** join/#brlcad sporty (n=mega@217.8.236.192)
12:48.35sporty*connection goes offline sometimes*
12:57.36IriX64http://rafb.net/p/VFVPyY15.html  <--- for interests sake :)
12:58.22sportyinterests in  what?
13:16.57*** join/#brlcad phreak4257 (n=phreak@67-42-56-208.eugn.qwest.net)
13:35.45sportyhttp://rafb.net/p/VFVPyY15.html <-- Who is Cassandra? Mrs. Irix64? Or you sister? Is she cute? Are her shapes resilient and beauty?
13:36.02sporty*your
13:55.16sporty"developer command" - like what, quickly! Is it like "commands of the developers of ..." or it is jst "commands (to be used) to develop images"?
13:56.35sportyi've questions of interest, you've got answers - let's have lots of fun, dudes
13:58.02sportycelebrates that fact that he've seen a *busy* day of another busy humans
13:58.12sporty*he's
14:25.29sportyi guess i'm offline again
14:26.53sportystrange... TV says people've started to eat each other due to the crisis
14:27.37sportywe, dudes of brlcad, must be robust - and eat our wifes instead of each other!
14:27.45sportyhello?
14:28.29sportyBbbbbbbbwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaa-hhhhh-aaaaaaaaa-hhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!
14:32.04sportywe can eat youkonbob... ;) i guess ours bearings can be Alaska or north Canada for this sake
14:36.08sportyOr e.g. PrezKennedy - he's old and not tasty i think - let's find some amazonia's women then! By means of his charizmata (i mean a gift of grace)... Uh i want into the eating-house... CIA-6: I want to sell my government for few pounds of potatos. What secrets do you want to know? Are you related to the CIA or FBI
14:37.46sportyPeople: tell me something! (But i gues, at *their* morning they will surely do!)
14:39.21sportyPrezKennedy: i still want to marry one of your daughter!
14:41.36sportylaptopheads and laptoplidcloses and iternetacessswitchesoffs and lots of superposition things happens at once.
14:43.08*** join/#brlcad frozeniron (n=phreak@67-42-56-208.eugn.qwest.net)
14:43.58PrezKennedyshoots sporty full of tranquilizer darts
14:44.33sportymy as5, my beautiful as5 laptop is ruined!
14:44.43sportyPrezKennedy: You wil pay for it!
14:44.56sportyPrezKennedy: my rockets are at the Cuba!!!
14:45.07claymore's eyes hurt after following this channel for a bit to long this morning....
14:45.30sportyPrezKennedy: Immediately, tell me your location to die as the noble gentlemen!
14:46.34sportykills PrezKennedy and marry both of his daughters at once. Happy End!
14:47.45sporty*marries
14:51.32sporty(Two young beautiful adies lick sporty's waunds, sporty feels good, sporty's a sporty!)
14:52.06sportyok, going to see TV since the channel is dead.
14:52.24sportyuh! almost has gone to see TV!
14:52.34claymoreThere is 'Off-topic' and then there is *Off-Topic!' ;)
14:53.07sportylike #brlcad*Off-Topic ?
14:53.22PrezKennedyor #brlcad-offthewalls
14:53.45claymoreJust saying that only certain Off-Topic topics will get replied to.
14:54.05PrezKennedylike hot chicks
14:54.44sportyok, so is it morning there where you are?
14:54.54claymoresure is.
14:56.49sportysitting here, where i am and loking there, where you are through the prism of the nets - i do not understand is it a morning or is it an evening like here where i am and loking there, where you are - and try to write complicated english phrases with no mistakes.
14:59.03IriX64http://rafb.net/p/ZTVcaf26.html   <--- are you interested in warnings like this?
15:01.05IriX64http://rafb.net/p/N9nCL741.html <--- and this
15:01.18sportyIriX64: wait, i need a proxy for http
15:01.26IriX64ill go back to skulking :)
15:01.40sportyIriX64: ok
15:04.08sportyIriX64: not really, i'm relatively new to brl-cad. I think you compile something under cygwin environment to launch *nix binaries in win os. Just compile it in linux, that's a way!
15:04.53*** part/#brlcad sporty (n=mega@217.8.236.192)
15:09.35IriX64delay.c in libged needs a #include<sys/time.h>
15:50.25IriX64http://rafb.net/p/xCIk1E40.html  <----    this stops the build
15:53.20IriX64http://rafb.net/p/3fM1wA43.html <--- this too stops the build, am i out of line doing this here or is it welcomed?
16:06.51IriX64bwish,mged,rttherm,pl-dm,bombardier all require -lXft -lXss to build
16:08.43IriX64clone.c has a problem with obj_list its defined elsewhere, im changing mine to mged_obj_list and praying it doesn't screw anything up
16:08.48IriX64in mged dir
16:08.56*** join/#brlcad phreak4257 (n=phreak@67-42-56-208.eugn.qwest.net)
16:16.13*** join/#brlcad CIA-6 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
16:17.17IriX64rtsrv.c tries to reinvent the wheel with a local copy of bu_bomb forgetting to change the names and it blows up at link time
16:28.02claymore``Erik: Where you at?
17:47.30``Erikat home, actually, what's up?
17:48.53*** join/#brlcad sporty (n=mega@217.8.236.188)
17:49.41sportyyukonbob: i havew come with a tablespoon!
17:49.53sportyyukonbob: and it's crisis!
17:50.08sportyyukonbob: just care yourself
18:01.52*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
18:06.56*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@69-196-180-29.dsl.teksavvy.com)
18:38.43sportychannel is dead as never...
18:54.05sportyor my new connection is faulty
18:55.24sportyor it's a busy day, or it's abusy day, or people want some rest when the rest of the week equals to its behinning
18:57.39sportybrlcad: i can use Emacs (i mean i can easily compile it with on offline system) - what are its essental parts, why do "old" programmers like it?
19:00.51*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
19:01.35sportylouipc: have you ever used Emacs?
19:01.57louipcI used to use xemacs a few years ago
19:02.21sportylouipc: what are its essential parts, why do people like it?
19:03.04sportyI mean i'd used full set of MS office - with complicated formulae and so on - and emacs seems too weird by now
19:03.12louipcI think people like it because it's highly configurable with elisp
19:04.17sportyand what does elisp offers? Can i "write down" some formulas as those wth integrals and sums?
19:04.25louipcvi and emacs are also quite efficient at text editing once you learn how to use them
19:04.39louipcyou never need to touch the mouse :D
19:05.03sportyok, i think you mean they're really fast in comparison with those with GUI
19:05.08sportyright!
19:05.10louipcit's just a scripting language, yeah I guess you can do formulae with it
19:05.31louipcI'm not familiar with how to do emacs scripting though
19:06.32sportyok... i will have compiled it with elisp manuals... i have found slackware 10 dvd - hehe, with sources, hehe
19:06.49louipcwell that's what slack is all about hah
19:07.35sportybut it can not handle my new pc :( had to use ubuntu on offline pc - andd have no cheap internet
19:07.48louipchttp://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/elisp.html
19:07.56sportyok
19:08.31sportylouipc: don't you know some good tutorial about python programming language?
19:08.57*** join/#brlcad frozeniron (n=phreak@67-42-56-208.eugn.qwest.net)
19:09.32louipchah good question. I've never looked at a tutorial I've only dove right into the code.
19:11.29sportylouipc: ok... i ust need to dove into few books right now - head is reeling ...
19:13.24claymore``Erik: nadda, you just missed a rare occasion where i eat lunch out... nothing big. ;)
19:15.47sportyclaymore: sometimes in the night, when i think it' s arainy day and i'm on my bike - i cry "more, more of the clay" - and scare mrs.sporty...
19:15.58sporty;)
19:15.58sporty:-X
19:16.06sporty:-/
19:22.13*** join/#brlcad frozeniron (n=phreak@67-42-56-208.eugn.qwest.net)
19:22.21claymore..... okay.... that's just plain odd.
19:22.48sportyyeah...
19:23.07louipchahaha
19:29.19sportyWhat does words "new gui" mean?
19:29.55claymore'new gui' == 'new Graphical User Interface'
19:31.09sportyclaymore: yeah, i have asked with "Graphical User Interface" = "GUI" on my mind... What a new GUI?
19:33.49claymoreThere is work underway for a new GUI interface in the rt^3/src/g3d directory
19:35.10sportywell, ok, nice answer for that one  non-initiated in programming (for me)... Simply into /src/g3d, where src = sources
19:35.42sportyclaymore: will it hide a half of a screen?
19:36.35sportyclaymore: i want to know, is it hard to "attach" new Qt design to existing foss program?
19:37.18sportyi mean i don't really know how to add it... well i need to strive... but you probably know people who tried to do this
19:37.36claymoredefine 'qt design' please...
19:38.41sportyuh... that Qt3 or Qt4 - common means of graphical interfaces to programs... ah i do not remember...
19:41.18sporty...i have compiled such 50-megs tarball - and want to 'modify' some programs (if it will be easy for a non-skilled-non-programmer)
19:41.24claymoreare you speaking of "Qt cross platform Application Framework" ?
19:42.00sportyi mean i did it on offline pc, where one mb equals one ice cream in its cost
19:42.13sportyclaymore: yes
19:42.35sportyabout its free version for non-commercial use
19:43.36claymoresporty: Well, I hadn't looked into that, but I can see that if we were to attempt to use that, there would be a massive amount of person-hours required to rework the existing brl-cad suite to use qt.
19:43.36sportyi want to modify one program (foss) - then do something in a long term... ah i just have an inspiration
19:44.38claymorethe new gui, aka, g3d will (probably) not use qt.  Developement of the new GUI is not at the top priority quite yet, but it will be eventually.
19:44.41sportyyou mean it can't be boundled with qt? i thought it was some kind of a standart
19:45.17claymoreI suppose the new GUI *could* use qt, but it would warrent a bit of investigation.
19:45.24*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177592943.dsl.bell.ca)
19:45.27sportyg3d - is it a name of a standard?
19:46.43alex_jonihttp://www.google.ro/search?q=g3d
19:46.54claymoresporty: no, g3d is the nickname for the new GUI that a GSoC student prototyped for BRL-CAD. The code resides in the rt^3/trunk/src/g3d/
19:46.59sportywell, ok... i'm only about to arrange some commands right now... I just think i will know how to use qt soon... just don't know yet how to bundle it to the code
19:47.53sportyclaymore: ok, i will not see into the trunk right now. Just interesting.
19:50.10sportyclaymore: how do you think: does starseeker sleep right now? I have no idea if names shall be like 3ptarb1 or i can leave it as 3ptarb--rus
19:50.41claymoresporty: Pretty sure starseeker is at work and just a bit busy.
19:52.01sportyok, but i'm drinking tea, made of dry apples, dendelion leaves and camomile
19:52.39sporty...and smoking garlics' stems - i'm vegan...
19:53.14claymorejust had Turkey, Roast Beast and Chicken for lunch. :)
19:53.17sportyand save money ...:-$
19:53.45sportythinks claymore isn't hurted with a crisis...
19:53.51brlcadsporty: 'brlcad' is me, 'BRL-CAD' is the software -- they're not the same thing (..at least not yet) -- referring to it in lower is cool, e.g., 'brl-cad'
19:54.02brlcadotherwise, you're driving me nuts :)
19:54.13sportybrlcad: it will be the same!
19:54.39sportybrlcad: ok
19:55.48sportywhat do you eat when you feel a lack of attention? Don't say you drink coffee!
19:56.27claymoresporty:  who are you talking to?
19:57.30sportyто alive humans
19:57.48claymoredrinks Mt Dew when needed.
19:57.51sportyyou (_pl.)
19:58.02sportyMt Dew?
19:58.06claymoredoesn't like coffee to much.
19:58.27claymorehttp://www.mountaindew.com/
19:58.32sportyi like tonic
19:58.50claymoreand I be that tonic likes you too!
19:58.58claymore:D
19:59.05sportyclaymore: ah, i know this from tv advertisings
19:59.34sportyclaymore: i meant shwepps or any tonic, tonic with lemon and so on
20:00.18sportyis it possible to type e.g. 60 words per minute
20:01.06claymoreyes.
20:01.14sportyreally?
20:01.46claymoreits been a while, but i benchmarked myself at ~73 wpm
20:01.55sportyi mean i want it. I'm using "Phonetics" layout for my native... Wow!
20:02.17claymoresome people, mostly Data Entry Specialists, have been known to achieve 120+ wpm.
20:02.27sportyholy Key  B. ART
20:04.50sportyclaymore: i typed fastly on some layouts, too.. But i think if i put my fingers vertically - i could get arthritis with all these words... Using laptop, try to dramatically accelerate it...
20:05.35claymoreits a hazard of the occupation, but one I will risk :)
20:06.38sportyclaymore: btw, it is good idea to get some hikes in dirty clay - helps to skin and probably adds some microelements beneath the skin
20:07.07sporty*helps for a skin*
20:07.12claymorehas kids. I get plenty dirty more often thank I like.
20:09.53sportyclaymore: ok, but i would like some trophies along the rivers. I've used to do it on a bicycle. But a bike or a car is good, too. The point is non-angry tyres, which force you to stay in dirty from clay water for longer. aand don't hurt to mother nature too much
20:15.32sportyi like trophies on sake-bearing cars as some stock vehicles. When there is a prudence of fun... There's olways a way to use vehicles with rubber tracks when you really don't want to sit in a swamp... This interest was a first my mature interest in this world - and all i plan right now is related to this or snwboard or even sk8boarding, which attitude seems like too high for a while for my poor, wounded body.
20:20.10brlcadsporty: emacs is a programmable "environment" for just about any purpose with lots of macros and functionality specifically tailored to programming and programming-related tasks
20:20.20brlcadthat's why many programmers like it
20:20.40brlcadit has a nasty learning curve, but it's well worth it if coding is a long term endevour
20:21.21claymoreide's >> emacs :D
20:21.23claymoreducks
20:26.02sportyok, i already try to read elisp tutorial. I ant to know an easy way to handle simple calculations (and save it as text) - and to add complicated formulas as integrals & sums and so on. I need this because i'd used MS products for this earlier. Now i'm about open source - and i hope it will be a bit faster & simply
20:28.31sportywell, i need to sleep... on a bench, in a familiar university, - so as i could scare away mobsters at the darkness... Hard time for young man with non-cheap laptop and contributions to open source...
20:29.04sportyit's crisis...
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20:33.46PrezKennedyvi 4 ever!!!
20:35.17brlcadIriX64: thanks for the adrt build failures -- the rtsrv one, though, isn't an error (it's a compiler setting issue)
20:37.03*** join/#brlcad phreak4257 (n=phreak@67-42-56-208.eugn.qwest.net)
20:37.55IriX64welcome, im still fighting fbed :)
20:38.45claymore
20:38.54brlcadg3d is just the presently temporary name for that effort -- it has (several) other names but is still effectively a prototype for the "new gui" effort  (responding to backlog comments)
20:39.14brlcadsporty: it will be the same, but not yet
20:39.40brlcademacs is an ide :P
20:39.45brlcadcatches up :)
20:40.05sportyPrezKennedy: i can't not to kiss your daughters' hands and some other territories... Would you mind?
20:41.21sportybrlcad: i hope brl-cad's interface will be very new in wise meaning- it shall not hide half-a-display...
20:41.33louipc:O
20:42.04sportybrlcad: how much commands does brl-cad have? Something like 70 ?
20:42.25claymorejust saw a Red Light
20:42.25brlcadif PrezKennedy has daughters, he's sure got a lot of 'splaining to do Lucy
20:42.34brlcadsporty: that is the intent
20:42.53brlcadthere are just over 400 commands outside of mged
20:42.54*** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177592943.dsl.bell.ca)
20:43.08brlcadabout 300-400 useful commands inside of mged
20:43.20sportybrlcad: i meant old mged_cmd_reference
20:43.36sportythere's about 80 commands
20:43.57sportyand binary files in ../bin directory
20:44.28brlcadthere should be about 400 in the bin directory for a full-distribution
20:44.30brlcadyou on windows?
20:44.54brlcadwindows has much less unless it's a cygwin/mingw build
20:45.12sportybrlcad: i mean /html/mged_cmd_index.html - i'm editing it
20:45.36brlcadthere are several mged commands that aren't documented in mged_cmd_index.html
20:45.50sportyi have xml files, which are ready to be filled with a number of languages
20:46.09sportybrlcad: like what?
20:46.21brlcad./html/manuals/mged/mged_cmd_index.html is pretty old
20:46.47sporty"cleanmyapartment -R [-i -g -h -t] now"
20:47.13sportybrlcad: well, i still have not finished it...
20:47.49sportybrlcad: btw, am i right to use "I have" - or shall i use "I has" ?
20:47.57brlcadI have
20:48.19brlcadah, looks like the command index hasn't been converted to docbook justyet
20:48.33sportyi also think "I" + "use" = "me use"
20:48.33brlcadso carry on!
20:48.55sportyi meant rus variant and then few variants, also
20:49.00brlcadnot unless you're a pirate
20:49.22sportynot full, probably, for young students and scolars
20:49.33claymorearg!
20:49.36starseekerBe sure to keep an eye on the sourceforge svn trunk - we have someone adding xml files for MGED commands
20:51.51sportybrlcad: seriously, words in mged_cmd_index are very good, simple and non-complicated. The only sake to add other languages are: 1. for those who is in the scholl - but wants some first fast 'results' 2. for fast start with a program. Things like rt or modelling *do* need at least an english dictionary - and so on
20:52.29sportystarseeker: immediately, tell me your email while i'm trying to get another tea!
20:52.30brlcadsporty: how about for someone that doesn't actually speak any english
20:53.13starseekersporty: I've seen your email messages, but I can't respond to them yet
20:53.20sportybrlcad: believe me, my friend who stidied german - can handle reading of mged cmd reference
20:53.21starseekerI have other priorities at work right now
20:53.29sporty*friends*
20:53.43sportystarseeker: only one question
20:53.44brlcadIriX64: your sources are out of date, so the errors are no longer valid
20:53.57brlcadremember to try the latest sources when you run into problems
20:54.01starseekersporty:  what's the question?
20:54.27brlcadsporty: your premise is still invalid if they don't have the same background as y ou
20:54.38sportystarseeker: <refentry id="echo--rus"> or <refentry id="echo1"> for russian, and <refentry id="echo--deu"> or <refentry id="echo2"> - for german?
20:54.50brlcadsame reason why people translate anything at all -- you certainly don't have to, nobody is going to make you
20:55.04brlcadif you do, much appreciated -- I'm sure others will appreciate the translations too
20:55.59sportybrlcad: believe me, it is not so! People, who're far from pc try to model bikes from American chopper in 3ds max- without a background in windows' file structures.
20:57.04brlcadsporty: I have absolutely no basis to believe anything you say, this is irc :)
20:57.25brlcadstill it's bogus
20:57.32sportybrlcad: how about this: "region" = region, "elliptical" = ellipticheskiy, and so on - same words, just their meaning is *same*
20:57.51sportyok
20:57.57brlcadshouldn't use dashes on the 'id' attributes if we're to be consistent
20:58.11brlcadmost elsewhere it uses dots as a separator
20:58.22sportybrlcad: ok then <refentry id="echo1"> and <refentry id="echo2">
20:58.28sportyok
20:58.29brlcaddashes where the symbol itself has a dash (like line-width)
20:58.42sportyok
20:58.45brlcadecho1 and echo2 are horrible id's :)
20:58.53brlcadit should say what it is
20:59.00sportybrlcad: which then?
20:59.35starseekersporty:  For language identification, I think it should use the lang property
20:59.36sportyecho1 =rus, echo2=deutsch, echo3=...
20:59.52sportystarseeker: which field?
20:59.53brlcade.g., "index.preferred.page.properties", "table.footnote.properties", "body.end.indent", etc
20:59.59starseekere.g. <refentry lang="ru">
21:00.14sportystarseeker: at which line?
21:00.51starseekerUh... what do you mean which line?  You're specifying the language of that refentry
21:00.58CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33270 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Activate Archer's wizard menu and primitive edit toolbar. Added commands for editing primitives via the mouse to libtclcad's Ged object.
21:01.10sportyi think i can add it at 5th or 6th line
21:01.25starseekerIf you want unique ids for a command's refentry, do something like <refentry id="man.search.ru">
21:01.28sportystarseeker: ok
21:01.28brlcadlang is xml namespaced too, isn't it?
21:01.33brlcadxml:lang="rt"
21:01.36brlcader, heh
21:01.39brlcadru
21:02.03starseekernot in the example here:  http://www.docbook.org/tdg/en/html/ch04.html
21:02.04sporty<refentry id='b--rus'>
21:02.06sporty<refmeta>
21:02.06sporty<PROTECTED>
21:02.37sportyto:<refentry id='b--rus'>
21:02.38sporty<refmeta><refentrylang>ru</refentrylang>
21:02.38sporty<PROTECTED>
21:02.58sportyfollowing a link
21:03.06starseekerI would do <refentry id="man.b.r" lang="ru">
21:03.19brlcadah, *docbook* has a lang attribute
21:03.22brlcadxml has one too
21:03.25starseekerer
21:03.30sportystarseeker: which is your email? that sm.........@yahoo or Cl...............@gmail ?
21:03.32starseekerI would do <refentry id="man.b.ru" lang="ru">
21:03.39starseekereither
21:03.47sportyok
21:04.27brlcadthe id's don't mix with the english ones, they replace them -- can't they be/stay the same?
21:04.29starseekerIt will be a while before I can refocus on documentation again though
21:05.04starseekerbrlcad:  Assuming there is no interest in using multiple language elements in a single document anywhere, sure
21:05.06sportystarseeker: i';; send you examples to check withing this hour. Then i will sleep. You can work. It's night in here
21:05.08brlcadwhich is what's cool about getting someone else to focus on it, just enough to get started ;)
21:05.47sportyok
21:06.17brlcadjust thinking simple is better .. mixing languages could get pretty messy on the build side
21:06.31brlcadunnecessarily messy -- at least on a per-file basis
21:06.41starseekerTrue
21:07.02brlcadthey're supposed to be stashed into language dirs anyways, so having english in a 'ru' dir would be bogus in a way
21:07.37sporty"man.b.ru" lang="ru" - ok, this is a choice. but the rest of the file structure is as old as that search.xml - so... i'm about a final variant
21:08.00sportystarseeker: will wiki engine work with these files "as is"?
21:08.28sportyand: can i use wiki offline? what do i need for this?
21:09.10sporty<refentry id="man.b.ru" lang="ru">
21:09.25starseekerwiki will not (yet) support these files "as is"
21:09.35starseekerextending it to do so is on my list
21:09.51sportystarseeker: how can i reduce your efforts? gimme a template
21:09.59CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33271 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/libtie/tie_kdtree.h: spot a conflicting type error from irix64, needs to be stdint type
21:10.16brlcad~sporty++
21:10.54starseekersporty:  Any of the existing files in brlcad/doc/docbook/system/man1/
21:11.04sportystarseeker: i can edit already-created files as youu wish.
21:11.12starseekerIn fact, there is a file mged_cmd_template.xml
21:11.16sportystarseeker: ok, getting it
21:11.26starseekerbut the main benefit for you is to do translations of the existing en files
21:11.34starseekerwhich are in en
21:11.37sportystarseeker: is this file big (in kb)?
21:11.40starseekerno
21:11.48sportyok
21:12.05starseekerFor id, just use the command name for now
21:12.11starseekerno man.b.ru
21:12.22brlcadhuh, there is?  I searched for two specific strings from the original html and couldn't find it
21:12.23starseekerIf there are id conflicts, we'll work it out
21:12.39sportyi have about 30-40 files, those big as dm and so on. tiny files and files with *paragraphs* are on my list
21:12.51sportystarseeker: ok
21:13.02brlcadoh, oops -- index != template
21:13.11starseekerright
21:13.42sportywell, can i use tag <pre></pre> for paragraphs?
21:13.49starseekerI don't have a master index file that xincludes all the individual ones yet - that'll be what replaces the old appendix in Vol II
21:14.03sportyi mean that bold text from mged cmd index
21:14.13starseekerlooks up the pre tag
21:14.17sportystarseeker: ok
21:14.45sportystarseeker: i would like to see off-line wiki engine in brlcad installation
21:14.55sporty...when commands are separate
21:14.58starseekerpre isn't a docbook tag
21:15.05sportystarseeker: ok
21:15.25starseekerlegal docbook tags can be found here:  http://www.docbook.org/tdg/en/html/part2.html
21:15.32brlcadsporty: you mean brl-cad installation
21:15.47sportybrlcad: no, i mean you!
21:15.54brlcadan off-line wiki is kinda pointless :)
21:16.29sportybrlcad: but it looks good! big mged cmd index just frighten me!
21:16.30starseekerThe off-line way to view these files is either to point a web browser to the html install directory or use the new tkhtml3 based doc viewer
21:16.33starseekerin MGED
21:17.00sportyinmmged?
21:17.01brlcadsporty: sure .. that just has nothing to do with a 'wiki'
21:17.36brlcadoff-line viewing is great, breaking up the page and displaying just the information requested, searchability, better organization .. all great things
21:17.43sportyok, i gree to use it in mged - but how will i interrupt it to add nes argument to the command line?
21:17.56*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14CB01.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:18.05sportyok, keep on working
21:18.09brlcadsporty: you work on the conversion, we can work on the integration
21:18.41brlcadeither breaking up the english and stubbing out more command files (using the mged_cmd_template) .. or by taking existing command files and translating them
21:20.28sportybrlcad: it's a double work - double work!
21:20.41starseekerSpeaking alphabetically, we have someone who is already working on commands adc - dup
21:21.05starseekeryou'll see those being integrated
21:21.14sportyi'm about an old cmd index - as i said it is quite easy to read it on english
21:21.20brlcadthat's not double work
21:21.26brlcadthe old is going away
21:21.28brlcad*poof*
21:21.34brlcadso you can help with that or help elsewhere
21:22.11starseekerI think he means it's not worth translating a lot of the docs
21:22.13sportyok, i have about 30 files "as is", fully translated, i will send it today for an integration
21:22.19starseekercool!
21:22.27starseekerthank you
21:22.27brlcadsporty: post it to the patches tracker
21:22.34sportystarseeker: no, i mean this:
21:23.00sportyThe only sake to add other languages are: 1. for those who is in the scholl - but wants some first fast 'results' 2. for fast start with a program. Things like rt or modelling *do* need at least an english dictionary - and so on
21:23.03brlcadhere, https://sourceforge.net/tracker2/?func=add&group_id=105292&atid=640804
21:23.48brlcadsporty: are you just wanting to argue or make everyone agree with you?  it's not necessary
21:23.56brlcadif you don't want to do a translation, then don't do it
21:24.03brlcadjustifying why is not necessary
21:24.07brlcadsomeone else will eventually
21:24.13sportybrlcad: it's fun i can eat one ice cream instead of each megabyte of internet traffic... I want to send 50 kb to someone mailbox, not to post files... ah...
21:25.28brlcadsporty: it's easier to track credit for the contribution if you go through the patches tracker instead of via e-mail, so that others can be aware of your contributions
21:25.49brlcadthat also makes it easier to justify giving you commit access down the road if you're being helpful/productive
21:26.19sportyno, i've added pages "about" and "wiki" to dloman77 box - now i'm trying to disassemble old mged_cmd_index.html. i have about 200 kb of short commands. this will be translated shortly wilst i have a break in reading some my skilled books
21:26.25brlcadshows you can work with others well enough that you'd be trusted to make the changes directly yourself, submitting as patches helps that process
21:26.54brlcadsporty: did dloman77 ask for those changes?
21:28.12sportyit was rus variant
21:28.35sportybrlcad: you have it in your mail box, i bet!
21:28.51sportyand starseeker already have it, too
21:30.43sportystarseeker: btw, those my messages - don't even read it now - i have new and edited files
21:33.22sportyoh my lord... i still stay far from http traffic... I agree to short memory in authors page later, after all, when i will feel a vanity!
21:35.45sportyi guess i'm offline again
21:35.53sportyno..
21:42.05sportyshall i leave this or it is not actual: Currently, only binary objects containing a uniform array of simple objects is supported.
21:42.31brlcadthat's still true
21:42.38sportyок
21:43.10sportyla-la(Alt+Shift)-ла
21:43.40sportyхе-хе = he-he
21:44.42sportyas you can see, main words are same
21:47.01*** join/#brlcad gentoo_iron (n=phreak@67-42-56-208.eugn.qwest.net)
21:54.02sporty"brlcad: that's still true" - shame on you!
21:58.02*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-58-236-226.dclient.hispeed.ch)
22:06.46sportyagain, stay far from http - staying far from http traffic
22:07.13sportysending |part1| to starseeker
22:15.07brlcadsporty: that's not shameful
22:15.37brlcadnon-uniform binary objects have such limited use (actually NO use to us without implementing other features that would use them)
22:16.42brlcadit's just that functionality was stubbed for non-uniform, so the statement is true -- it won't make coffee for you too, but since we didn't stub it there is no statement
22:17.55sportybrlcad: ok
22:21.12sportyok... i wanted to add some "international" glamour with that ".../d/About" page and wiki and wiki rus references. Btw, how can i transform pdf-to-html to translate some pdf files from /d/documents?
22:22.31starseekerDon't know if it's any good, but there's this:  http://pdftohtml.sourceforge.net/
22:23.38sportystarseeker: i will starve the rest of the week if i will have gone to sourceforge - but i will go!
22:25.01sporty<PROTECTED>
22:25.04starseekerEven using a text browser?
22:25.11sportyproxy...
22:25.17starseekeris partial to links
22:25.37sportystarseeker: even pay 0.30 per each megabyte!
22:26.00louipcpoppler is good for pdfto*
22:26.02louipchttp://poppler.freedesktop.org/
22:26.07sportytoonel.net
22:26.39sportyhope it has no dependencies on the different libs
22:27.34sporty0.30 usd
22:27.52starseekerHere's the original links text browser:  http://links.sourceforge.net/
22:28.01sportyok... but i can use it to read my books...
22:28.39starseekerThere used to be services where you could order CDs/DVDs with whole linux distros on them
22:28.46starseekerperhaps that would be cheaper, even with shipping
22:28.57sportystarseeker: text browsers don't save traffic... when your web browser has images turned off
22:30.10starseekerAh
22:30.25sportystarseeker: i know good asplinux on e.g. 5 cd s with tons of libs and everything - i do not know anyone with fresh version, don't want to pay 400 usd for 3-month professional support
22:31.08starseekerwhat's the latest version?
22:32.22sportylatest... don't know... it is a Fedora-like with rpms... My old version was too old for new laptop - and i had to install ubuntu from one cd
22:32.44sportywww.asplinux.ru
22:34.00starseekerDon't know if these guys are any good, but... http://www.osdisc.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi/products/linux/asp
22:34.06brlcadsporty: don't do pdf-to-html on anything
22:34.18brlcadwe have the originals in other formats (whether they be docbook or msword or whatever)
22:34.36*** join/#brlcad phreak4257 (n=phreak@67-42-56-208.eugn.qwest.net)
22:34.41brlcadthose are much better starting points than the pdf unless you are just going to type everything in from scratch
22:35.08sportybrlcad: why? I want to "format" my skilled books (600 pages of plain inspiration) - and to translate some /d/docs
22:35.15brlcadthose weren't made in a vaccuum .. we have the originals ;)
22:35.55brlcadi'm not saying don't do the translation -- i'm saying don't just start doing a pdf-to-html conversion
22:36.00brlcadstarting with the pdf would be stupid
22:36.05brlcadwe have better formats to start from
22:36.06sportybrlcad: ok, which one has a least size in kilobytes? send me one, i can handle it in a text editor
22:36.28brlcadi can send you volume 1
22:36.39brlcadif you do a decent job on that, we can try 3 or 2
22:37.02brlcad2 is already docbookified
22:37.08sportybrlcad: ok, i'm waiting - at morning, one megabyte will be equal to one ice cream, now it's only 3 megabytes are equal to one ice cream....
22:37.11brlcadthat'd be the better starting point .. don't know about vol 1
22:37.27brlcadsporty: huh?  wtf are you talking about? :)
22:37.34brlcadyou want me to buy you some ice cream?
22:37.52sportybrlcad: let me only to translate it, and "What size does it have"?
22:38.10starseekervolume 1 is small
22:38.13brlcadtiny
22:38.16sportyVolume one.... let me guess.... 980 kb ??
22:38.20brlcadi don't remember the exact size, but it's tiny
22:38.22sportycome on!
22:38.30sportytell me
22:38.44brlcadwhat part of "I don't remember" do you not understand? :)
22:38.45sportyand send now, not after an hour!
22:39.08sportybrlcad: ok, just tell me before you send it
22:39.33starseekerbrlcad:  Is that the Overview on the wiki?
22:39.38brlcadsporty: i'll probably post it and you can pull it when you're ready
22:39.48brlcadstarseeker: yeah, is that docbookified yet?
22:39.55starseekerDon't think so.  
22:39.57brlcadk
22:40.06brlcadgood, cause I have that in italian too
22:40.07starseekerWas just thinking I can copy that text and send it to him, no images
22:42.47brlcadit's already neatly tagged somewhere
22:43.06sportystarseeker: right!
22:43.22sportystarseeker: this way work will be faster!
22:43.37PrezKennedyhey, anyone wanna go to Zimbabwe?
22:43.47PrezKennedyi hear their water goes right through ya...
22:43.54sportye.g. save the file as "complete html", than send me only compresseg .html
22:44.45sportyPrezKennedy: i want to ask your daughters' hands, roasted with ketchup, on a lunch
22:45.01sportyPrezKennedy: it's crisis... and i want to ask your daughters' hands, roasted with ketchup, on a lunch
22:47.04PrezKennedyyes... i think...
22:47.53*** join/#brlcad frozeniron (n=phreak@67-42-56-208.eugn.qwest.net)
22:47.58brlcadsporty: well you can copy the text yourself from the website then too :)
22:48.02sportyPrezKennedy: ok! quickly! i'm hungry ...for love...
22:48.19brlcadsave the page, do your edits
22:48.27brlcadthat's also tagged up well enough
22:48.30sportybrlcad: ha-ha - i will have to download .pdf file
22:48.36brlcadno, volume I
22:48.50sportybrlcad: ok, give me a link
22:48.59brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/wiki/Overview
22:49.09sportyjust don't... ah! /d/documents ??
22:49.14sportyok
22:49.28brlcadah, yeah -- that's even a wiki page, so you could add the internationalization directly
22:50.26brlcadsimplified version here: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRL-CAD
22:50.34brlcad*very* simplified
22:50.54sportystares at Bloodhound Gang - Ballad Of Chasey Lain
22:51.11sportyhe's her biggest fan!
22:51.51sportyshe have a lot of friends, he has a lot of time! Come on, sing it 2get there
22:53.08sportywhy "simlified" read this: naturalstuff.110mb.com - second paragraph
22:56.10brlcadi'm saying the wikipedia write-up is a simplified version of the english variant
22:56.38brlcadand both of those are a simplified derivative of the wiki/Overview page (they started out as the same content)
22:56.43brlcadwanders off
22:58.18sportybrlcad: what if i'm editin that page - will you have to copy my new brave foreign words into some .xml file?
22:58.44sportybrlcad: do you know Charley Wuffles ? He's a singer?
22:59.27sportyCharley Wuffles = Charley Shean in "Two and a half men"
23:02.44sportyok, going to drink my drinks and watch my watches
23:03.07sportyi mean going to switch off internet this day off
23:03.18sportyi mean going to quit the chat
23:03.27sportyi\m quitting
23:03.42sportybye! see you
23:03.46*** part/#brlcad sporty (n=mega@217.8.236.188)
23:03.54*** join/#brlcad sporty (n=mega@217.8.236.188)
23:04.19sportysee you're sitting and do not answering!
23:04.21*** part/#brlcad sporty (n=mega@217.8.236.188)
23:04.37PrezKennedyi want what he's on
23:09.14*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
23:09.46*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177592943.dsl.bell.ca)
23:10.15*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177592943.dsl.bell.ca)
23:10.41*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177592943.dsl.bell.ca)
23:26.41IriX64would anybody have any idea on how to solve the can't find -llibtermlib thing in fbed?
23:28.00IriX64same in lgt
23:29.32RalithIriX64: -l implies a "lib" prefix; try -ltermlib
23:29.47Ralithunless I'm missing something
23:30.06IriX64ahh thankyou
23:42.15*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
23:51.22*** join/#brlcad gentoo_iron (n=phreak@67-42-56-208.eugn.qwest.net)
23:52.10Ralithbrlcad: do you still have that paper on cutaway generation lying around?
23:52.15Ralithcan't find where he put it
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081204

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081204

00:07.33phreak4257.
00:08.05Ralith'
00:09.26Ralithvmath.h doesn't incur any dependencies, right?
00:23.16*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177592943.dsl.bell.ca)
00:34.32IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/7.14.1.png   <---- finally
00:36.11Ralithnice
01:45.10*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177592943.dsl.bell.ca)
02:03.48Ralithbrlcad: got some questions about vecmath.h (which I am very close to killing completely) in lgt
02:44.16*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
02:52.16*** join/#brlcad frozeniron (n=phreak@67-42-56-208.eugn.qwest.net)
03:11.55*** join/#brlcad frozeniron (n=phreak@67-42-56-208.eugn.qwest.net)
03:20.12*** join/#brlcad gentoo_iron (n=phreak@67-42-56-208.eugn.qwest.net)
03:44.50gentoo_iron.
03:45.13Ralith'
03:45.31Ralithgentoo_iron: decide on a nick already :P
03:48.31gentoo_iron:)
03:48.44gentoo_ironstupid netowrk connection
03:49.19gentoo_ironif i have several nicks, it will try that instead of booting me
03:56.25*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177592943.dsl.bell.ca)
03:57.39IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/bang.png and hit.png :)
03:59.16RalithIriX64: nice, although you might want a prettier view :P
03:59.36IriX64couldn't find miss april or the paper moose
03:59.50Raliththe havok is nice
03:59.56IriX64very
04:00.01*** join/#brlcad frozeniron (n=phreak@67-42-56-208.eugn.qwest.net)
04:00.06Ralithbut you're only lighting a fraction of the visible area
04:00.16Ralithnot very fun to look at a big blob of shadow
04:00.26IriX64thats the underbelly i rotated it
04:00.32IriX64suns on top
04:00.35Ralithyeah
04:00.37Ralithrender the top
04:00.38Ralith^^
04:02.03IriX64reality is sometimes hard to understand
04:03.09IriX64which would you like to see?
04:03.28IriX64out of the examples, i don't draw
04:04.50yukonbobreads scrollback
04:04.56Ralithjust commenting on aesthetics
04:05.05RalithI can render it myself if I actually want to see something :P
04:05.24IriX64would you like a top shot?
04:05.29IriX64give me 5
04:06.28yukonbobhello, cadheads
04:08.27RalithIriX64: no, no need to spend your time
04:08.32Ralithlike I said, I can see all I want of it
04:08.42Ralithgot bored of raytracing the havok a long time ago :P
04:14.52IriX64try brl-cad.png
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06:12.23brlcadRalith: apparently not, because I don't remember said paper (cutaway generation)
06:12.32brlcadoooh, the siggraph paper
06:12.53Ralithyeah!
06:13.58brlcadhm
06:15.09Ralithalso: lgt/vecmath.h defines EPSILON (which is used as you might expect) to a seemingly arbitrary value, and I haven't seen an obvious parallel in vmath.h . Should I copy that to vmath, use Vsomething_TOL, move the #define to the source files that need it, or what?
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06:26.37brlcadhttp://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/wilmotli/
06:28.30Ralithty
06:29.10Ralithoo, a paper on exploding things too
06:29.44brlcaddon't move tolerances to vmath
06:30.00brlcadthere "shouldn't" be any hard-coded tolerances in the public header files
06:30.15brlcada couple have snuck in over the years, but they're the exception
06:31.08Raliththought that would be inappropriate
06:31.17Ralithbut what *do* I do about it?
06:31.22Ralithnone of the other options seem particularly elegant
06:31.36Ralithand it seems a shame to keep vecmath.h around for that alone
06:33.09brlcadlooks like it's only used in three files, and at least one of those is completely arbitrary
06:34.04Ralithso move it to a #define in each file?
06:34.12brlcad(reflect.c) .. so that could completely go away or be changed to some other "near zero" sanity value, or use some lgt global tolerance
06:34.33brlcador a var in the main file, and just export in the other one/two
06:35.29brlcadit probably should just have a bn_tol in do_options.c and have that exported in ir.c
06:36.02brlcadi'm sure there's other places in lgt that could be managing tolerance better too
06:36.23RalithI'm hesitant to dig into that without an understanding of what it's doing, though
06:37.30brlcadsure
06:37.36brlcadjust thinking out loud
06:38.11brlcadthe quick fix is just a fastf_t
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06:39.23Ralithso, drop fastf_t bn_tol = the value EPSILON has right now in do_options.c, and a matching extern in ir.c, and an independent #define in reflect.c?
06:40.01CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33272 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/spltest.c: clean up the mess while reviewing where things were left off at with the old spline surface testing.
06:40.09brlcadfastf_t or bn_tol .. one's a single val, the other a tolerance structure
06:40.18Ralithoh, heh
06:40.22Ralithdidn't know bn_tol was a type.
06:40.51brlcadfastf_t is a type too :)
06:41.01Raliththe _t clued me in on that.
06:41.01brlcadstruct bn_tol and fastf_t
06:41.06brlcadfastf_t is basically a double
06:41.08Ralithas well as the numerous appearances in the code.
06:41.23brlcadbut could be a float or some other (arbitrary) floating point type
06:42.27Ralithlooks over bn_tol and opts for the simple fix
06:42.40Ralithseeing as that's all that's actually being used.
06:45.06Ralithany relevant naming conventions I should be reminded of?
06:46.23brlcadnothing relevant for that
06:53.27CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33273 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/bspline.c: be a little more explicit
07:00.23CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33274 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bspline/bspline.c: ws and comment cleanup
07:04.54CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33275 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/spltest.c:
07:04.54CIA-6BRL-CAD: fix a memory deallocation error. since this is calling mk_export_fwrite
07:04.54CIA-6BRL-CAD: directly (which is really just wdb_export()), it cannot use a rt_nurb_internal
07:04.54CIA-6BRL-CAD: that is on the stack because ifree() ends up getting called on the internal
07:04.54CIA-6BRL-CAD: during export.
07:11.27CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33276 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
07:11.27CIA-6BRL-CAD: end of cycle review, pnts import and export were finished, but still would like
07:11.27CIA-6BRL-CAD: to get file input support working (maybe a pnts command instead of typein).
07:11.27CIA-6BRL-CAD: still need to do something with color and vectors for the wireframe and possibly
07:11.27CIA-6BRL-CAD: raytracing too (big changes to support that, multi'region' primitives). also,
07:11.30CIA-6BRL-CAD: incrTcl once again gets the shaft (but this time not even making the next
07:11.32CIA-6BRL-CAD: iteration due to other priorities)
07:13.09CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33277 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/bot_shell-vtk.1: wrong title header
07:16.33yukonbobwhat's happening w/ incrtcl
07:16.45yukonbobis working w/ the 4.0a1 atm (on own 'puter)
07:20.48yukonbobhits hay
07:33.00CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33278 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/bot_shell-vtk.1: case consistency
07:34.36CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33279 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/bot_dump.c: it's a lie, -v is not a recognized argument
07:35.35CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33280 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS TODO src/conv/Makefile.am src/conv/bot_dump.1): add an initial manual page for bot_dump in response to a request for one from the modeling team. this is pretty rudimentary documentation, but should be better than nothing.
07:35.37brlcadyukonbob: nothing
07:36.13brlcadthe todo push back is on some configure cleanup that is still needed
07:36.34brlcadso our automatic system detection works better for mixed combinations of system/provided
07:39.57CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33281 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: cliff added editing support for the hyp primitive to mged. (this is just a rewrite for consistency (past tense or fragment, lowercase mged on the one-liners))
07:44.53CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33282 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: cliff also added a new 'lens' proc-db for making exact optical lenses. (this is just a rewrite for readability, news should be worded for a wide viewship, as much comprehension as possible in the space given.)
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12:21.58claymoreMorning all!
12:22.02starseekergrooves out on his working mouse
12:22.04starseekermorning!
12:22.14starseekergears up for an early start
12:22.23starseekeryay 9am meetings
12:22.36claymoreewwww.
12:24.32claymoredamn.... just looked.  that 9 am meeting means *ME* too.
12:24.38claymoregrumbles
12:25.19archivisthar har nearly dinner time here
12:25.48claymoreoh yeah... well.... um... i had dinner almost 12 hours ago... so there!.... yeah! ;)
12:27.43starseekerand rush hour traffic
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12:27.53starseekerrushes to get into rush hour traffic
12:28.44claymoreAudioBooks man!  Its the only way to combat being surrounded by tons of metal piloted by idiots!
12:29.41claymorewill be starting the Wizards First Rule series by Goodkind soon.
13:23.01brlcad9am meeting?  eek
13:23.15claymorelooks at watch.
13:23.32claymorebrlcad:  that Lotus would come in handy right now eh?  :D
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13:38.57brlcadwill be 15 or so late unless car falls apart
13:44.09clock_also wants to be 15 once more again
13:48.40claymorebrlcad:  I'll tell them the truth:  You're stuck in traffic ;)
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14:11.20alex_joniclock_: but you'll lose all you knowledge too
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14:45.56clock_alex_joni: better losing knowledge than losing youth
14:52.50alex_joniclock_: that's debateable
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14:54.43claymorea person has control over losing knowledge, but no control over losing youth.  best not to fight the inevitable and make the most out of the the time you have :)
14:55.22alex_jonithere are cases where you don't have control over losing knowledge
14:55.42alex_jonibut at that point loss of youth is probably irrelevant/irreversible aswell
14:55.53claymoretrue, but if you dive into details, then *any* philisophical debate falls apart ;)
14:56.11alex_jonidivide et impera ;)
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15:28.35CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33283 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/swidgets/scripts/selectlists.itk: Check-in for Doug Howard.
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17:02.39CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33284 10/rt^3/trunk/src/iBME/GeometryEngine/ (30 files):
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17:04.08IriX64i could use some help
17:04.35CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33285 10/rt^3/trunk/src/iBME/GeometryService/Jobs/ (16 files): Architecture change: Converted all arrays over to std::vector or std::list where appropriate.
17:04.43claymoreamen to that :D
17:05.02IriX64heh fbed is giving me grief
17:05.23CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33286 10/rt^3/trunk/src/iBME/GeometryService/ (24 files in 2 dirs): Architecture change: Converted all arrays over to std::vector or std::list where appropriate.
17:07.45CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33287 10/rt^3/trunk/src/iBME/ (11 files in 4 dirs): Architecture change: Converted all arrays over to std::vector or std::list where appropriate. (Multiple commits where required due to the intermittent network issues here.)
17:17.28sportyIriX64: where shall i register myself to put my xml files prepared for international translations? Where's a tracker?
17:24.00sportyok, will have started from logs of previous day
17:25.25IriX64sporty, i have no idead man sorry
17:25.35IriX64idea too
17:25.48sportyok, i see logs - there's a link
17:26.28IriX64good
17:26.52sportynot bad, heh
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17:32.42claymorehai ``Erik !
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17:34.40louipcsporty: try the patch tracker. http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=640804&group_id=105292&func=browse
17:34.49sportyok
17:35.20sportybut i\m already trying to create an account
17:36.06louipcyou'll have to create a sourceforge account I believe
17:46.10sportyi did it
17:46.19IriX64cheers
17:46.44sportyi have created a cup of a tea... now about the account ..
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17:53.57sportywell... i can not log into my account. weak connection fot sourceforge traffic... will use e-mail
17:54.03sporty...then.
18:16.53``Erikyargh
18:25.11yukonbob"To err is human, to arrr! is pirate"
18:30.46claymorearrrrrrg!
18:32.49CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33288 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Add code to support "more args" commands in Tcl land. Activate the "in" and "inside" commands in Archer.
18:33.41claymoreMore ARGS!!! ARG!!!!!!
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20:07.27brlcadstarseeker: turned off OCR?
20:07.44starseekeroops - not intentionally
20:08.01brlcadno biggie, have to turn them into images to color correct them anyways
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20:08.16brlcadhello sporty
20:08.42brlcadfigure out your login to sourceforge?  that is the best way to send stuff over (initially)
20:10.23sportybrlcad: i can not go to sourceforge due to weak internet connection. It interrupts
20:11.24brlcadwhat does that mean?
20:11.38sportyi'm using e-mails
20:11.42brlcaddata is data
20:12.04sportybrlcad: yes, but e-nail - it is usually 10 kb of data
20:12.14brlcadif you can send and receive data over smtp, you should be able to do the same over http
20:12.56sportybrlcad: so i have to re-vise commands... Can i add <refentry id='man.c.ru'> ??
20:13.09brlcadso browse with javascript disabled, stylesheets disabled
20:13.20sportybrlcad: but i pay 0.30 usd per megabyte and hate sourceforge.net
20:13.26sportyok
20:13.44brlcadhell, use lynx
20:14.13brlcadimages are the killer, turn off image loading
20:14.19sportystarseeker: i'm about to edit all my files again...
20:14.20brlcadso much possible
20:14.40brlcadit'll just be a LOT more effective as a tracker item then via e-mail
20:15.08sportybrlcad: everything is already turned off, and i'm using toonel.net for http and direct connection for downlos
20:15.11brlcadbut if e-mail is your only option, join the devel mailing list and send them to there in patch form as attachments
20:17.07brlcadas for the refentry id, I don't personally see yet why those need to change
20:17.13sportybrlcad: no, don't have time to know how to create patches. I'm getting experience in translations. These commands i already have (first 50 or 60) - fully translated. The rest will be a bit more rough.
20:17.18brlcadyou can mark the entire book/article/whatever as lang="ru"
20:17.20sportybrlcad: ok
20:17.30sportybrlcad: how?
20:17.34sportyas:
20:18.16sporty<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" lang="ru"?>   ????
20:18.22sportyright?
20:18.42sportyif so, then these commands are ready
20:18.44brlcadno, it goes on the book/article/chapter -- depends how it's broken out
20:18.54sportyok, wait
20:19.21sportyok, will decide with starseeker
20:19.28brlcadrefentry lang="ru" iirc
20:19.43brlcador it happens at a higher level
20:19.58brlcadthey go into a "ru" directory already
20:20.03sporty<refentry id='c' lang="ru">
20:20.21sportybrlcad: let them go to /ru directory
20:20.27sportyit could be better
20:20.50louipcsporty: are you using svn?
20:21.12sportybecause i've asked elite01 to add some commands on another language - and i has told he can spend about an hour for them all
20:21.22sportylouipc: no
20:22.06louipcyou can easily get a patch of your changes with `svn diff` though :D
20:22.07sportylouipc: i'm using cost internet connection - this is an only obstruction
20:22.24sportyah... no
20:23.03brlcadsporty: so what *are* you doing?
20:23.25brlcadbecause if you're trying to help, you've being very difficult .. seemingly intentionally
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20:24.18sportybrlcad: right now i'm re-vising commands. E.g. word "combination" in russian will be "complicated object" - in those sentences whichmind primitives -
20:24.20brlcadthere's a reason why certain methods and formats are preferred over others.. it's generally what's most time-efficient for everyone (patches being a big one)
20:24.59brlcadthat doesn't sound right
20:25.05sportybut i thought svn are just a night-builds...
20:25.37brlcadsvn is where all current development occurs
20:26.14brlcadwhich combination object isn't quite the same as compound object, nor complicated object..
20:26.17sportyi think it could be a good idea to leave some words as combination as special terms. "combination"='kombinaciya'
20:26.28sportythat's what i do right now
20:26.34brlcadhow do you refer to two things that are joined together using boolean operations?
20:26.52sportyok, wait...
20:27.39sportye.g. 'creates combination with name combination_name'
20:29.08sportynever mind, bad example. I think it could be great to edit commands on the site, after all. There will sure be people who can approve/disapprove commands on the native languages
20:33.32sportybrlcad: i know at least two manuals on my native. 'booleans' tend us towards complicated objects, where 'complicated' mean rather non-original, than "more simple vs more complicated". From this points of view, everithing is ok. I only think i need to re-vise all the commands again - and i want it to be a final variant. Unless it will lie in wiki.
20:35.03sportyi also want to leave e.g. 'regions', 'combinations', 'rubber band' as special terms.
20:36.42sportyi've understood that 'full' translation shall be used in other cases. B.t.w, one this manual about the commands is tiny-but-powerfull introduction in 3D.
20:39.35sportylouipc: so how can i create a xml-commands-rus-part1.patch ? I wanted to gzip it and upload through the tracker...
20:43.00louipcsporty: if you didn't alter any existing files I'd think that would be alright. Otherwise you'd use the diff command to make a patch. Read the man page to see how to use it.
20:43.20sportyok
20:46.14sportyi think <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" lang="ru"?> - and i need to quit to find out if it right or not
20:47.04sportydon't write smth without me! If everything is ok, all user commands will be available soon
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21:18.52sport1it's ok
21:30.02redvsbluedoes erik's connection suck or is it just my imagination? :P
21:42.14brlcadit sucks when he's not paying attention to it
21:42.37redvsblueoh
21:42.47redvsbluewell i guess thats good, it means he is being productive?
21:42.50redvsblue:P
21:43.59brlcadunlikely
21:44.21sportybrlcad: does the rset *don't gets a  new* value untill it is explicitly supplied on a command line
21:44.46brlcadsporty: right, it's like "set" on the unix prompt
21:44.55sportyok
21:44.59brlcadprints if you ask for stuff, sets it if you provide a value
21:46.07brlcadsporty: so what does this call it? http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_solid_geometry
21:46.16brlcadcomplicated objects?
21:47.07sportybrlcad: ah, just combination=combination and region-region and so on.
21:49.35sportybrlcad: any mention call it "complicated vs. primitive shapes" - but here, on a sophisticated 'basis', combinations remain "combination" and regions remain "region" - these words only sounds more rough on russian, as e.g. german ones
21:50.01sportyi mean i do not change anything
21:50.45sportythis translation only helps to read through the manual more quickly
21:51.16sportybrlcad: I guess Rubber Band is... what is it?
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21:58.04IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/brl-cad.png
21:58.07sportybrlcad: <refentry id='rset' lang="ru"> - so i try to finish this long translation work more quickly.
21:59.02sportyIriX64: i can not download pics (mobile internet) - what do they use brl-cad for?
21:59.23IriX64solid modelling and cad
21:59.42sportycad?
21:59.54IriX64computer aided design
22:00.22sportyi mean, only design? or they try to e.g. speed up the 'documentation' cycle
22:00.36IriX64test it before its built
22:01.13IriX64see how many rockets itll take before its destroyed :)
22:02.09IriX64there's some others on the site too, all recent
22:02.50sportyIriX64: i'm about to use brl-cad this way: 10-15 minutes for geometry, fea, - and it's an analog, then again, 20 mins for geometry and fea - and these 2-3 times produces a good shape --> qcad (or some sophisticated cad package). Time is a problem... it's about 40-hours week...
22:03.27sportyIriX64: not tea - fea!
22:03.37sportyha-ha :)
22:03.44IriX64:)
22:04.04sportyi have new fea package cose-aster.org
22:04.12sportycode-aster.org
22:04.38sportyand few books to read till the end of this month
22:05.03IriX64whatever happened to doxygen :)
22:05.25sportydoxygen? what is it?
22:05.33IriX64documentation
22:05.42IriX64pkg
22:06.20sportydoxygen - documentation of what?
22:06.35IriX64anything you want to document
22:06.45IriX64brl-cad used to use it
22:07.09IriX64i think the switch is still there in ./configure
22:07.20sportyuh... but what have heppened with doxygen
22:07.31IriX64replaced
22:07.47IriX64html docbook and pdf i think
22:07.59sportyi have compiled gcc-3.4 and can not compile qt-opensource-edition
22:08.16louipcdoxygen is really for documenting libraries
22:08.30IriX64thanks
22:08.43sportyIriX64: what is a size of current brl-cad's linux package? same 12 mb?
22:09.05IriX64the source is arounf 40-45 bz2 ed
22:09.11IriX64around too
22:09.45IriX64check sourceforge the project page they have binaries
22:09.51sportyno! i have 7.10.2 which is 12 mb in size, .bzip2
22:10.18IriX64no idea then i don't run linux
22:10.31sportyoh my god! i need... about 15 usd to download it!
22:10.40louipc7.14.0 is 41M in .tar.bz2
22:10.51sportyIriX64: do you run irix on 64-bit?
22:10.52louipcthe source
22:10.56IriX64ah your on a dialup
22:11.11sportyno, on gprs
22:11.16louipcsporty: ouch
22:11.28brlcadsporty: forget about putting a lang in there unless you hear something from starseeker as to otherwise.. just translate the body text
22:11.28IriX64my nick has nothing to do with what os i use
22:11.45sportybrlcad: ok
22:12.54sportybrlcad: starseeker has told he will have to edit it, anyway - but i will have deleted lang from few last files - so all thw files will be clear
22:13.54sportybrlcad: what is "rubber band"? is it related to David bowie or iggy pop?
22:14.13sportyor zizy top?
22:14.28sportyor aa bottom? :)
22:14.42brlcadit's a marquee
22:15.05sportyah!
22:15.10sportyaha!
22:15.22sportyi almost thought the same
22:15.54sportyi have called it "rubber gangsters"
22:16.22sporty"rubber gang" to be true
22:18.22brlcadIriX64: doxygen is for *code* documentation and hasn't changed in plan
22:18.29brlcadit's still what is being used
22:18.37brlcaddocbook is for the end-user documentation
22:22.13sportybrlcad: what is a price of such a 'simple' cars as e.g. cheap sedan, new, there in u.s.?
22:22.31IriX64sorry, i remember a --enable-doxygen in 7.6.2 :)
22:22.59brlcaddepends, but anywhere from 10k to 30k
22:23.12sportyIriX64: it seems it exists in 7.10, but there's also a default value
22:23.12brlcadcheap is very observer-dependent
22:23.39sportybrlcad: i mean e.g. ford ....ah well the most cheap?
22:24.21sportylike 8999$ ? i want to buy a car for 300$
22:24.28brlcadwell I gave a range
22:24.35brlcadso the cheapest is one ends of that range
22:24.46sportywhich is 15-20 years old
22:24.58sportyok...
22:26.02brlcadyou said new
22:26.19brlcadcars cost a whole lot more than $300 to make them in materials alone
22:26.28sportybrlcad: it is a macabre for me...
22:27.32sportyi will buy a set of car+some gasoline + snowboard and bmx for warm (> -20 celsius) days
22:27.32brlcadthere is financing and used cars for cheaper
22:28.38sportybrlcad: ok... i will 'edit' the cars in a way i like. i wish i can buy lots of epoxy resin - it's a rare thing here
22:31.56sportyok, i will go to see "two and a half men" at tv. i want to finish all the files (about 60) today, with no any additions as lang="ru".
22:32.05sportyi'm quitting
22:32.10*** part/#brlcad sporty (n=mega@217.8.236.142)
23:48.05*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081205

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081205

00:41.06*** join/#brlcad Ralith_ (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
00:53.35``Erikpays lots of attention to his internet connection, has a faulty cable modem or wire or something :/ has to physically move the cable modem to another jack to trick it into resetting correctly :/
00:54.16redvsbluebut sometimes youre too busy napping at work to notice though
00:54.50``Erikcan't exactly stop and drive home to reset the cable modem in the middle of a work day O.o
00:55.13redvsbluetoo busy playing solitaire?
00:55.13redvsblue;D
00:55.21``Erikminesweeper
00:55.26redvsbluehehe
01:02.24*** join/#brlcad sporty (n=z@217.8.236.134)
01:18.03yukonbobhello, cadheads
01:23.48sportyyukonbob: hello
01:54.55sportyhello?
01:55.06sportyon-line :)
01:55.50sporty"america on-line" - "What is on-line?" "America, heh!.."
02:00.12*** part/#brlcad sporty (n=z@217.8.236.134)
07:58.22*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
08:26.39*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch)
11:11.24claymoreyawns.
11:11.27claymoreMornin all.
12:08.44*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
12:38.36starseekermorning
12:40.27archivistI wish I could get out of bed as late as you lot
12:48.03claymorelate?  Early :)  0415 is my wake time!
12:48.39archivist12:48 nearly dinnerz time :)
13:13.08*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14DE44.dip.t-dialin.net)
13:26.14*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
14:19.23CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33291 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO:
14:19.23CIA-6BRL-CAD: add a slew of request from butler et al for a variety of productivity enhancers:
14:19.23CIA-6BRL-CAD: 1) support to 'search' to find objects with given attribute value ranges (like
14:19.23CIA-6BRL-CAD: numeric region ids), 2) adding a color option to all of the drawing commands, 3)
14:19.23CIA-6BRL-CAD: having automatic history recordation, 4) exec support for 'search', 5) argument
14:19.26CIA-6BRL-CAD: aware commands for automatic object matching
14:25.05CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33292 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS:
14:25.05CIA-6BRL-CAD: added more detail on the mixed-winding bot problems noting that the issue isn't
14:25.05CIA-6BRL-CAD: isolated to nirt but is a problem in librt. if they're set to lh or rh, they
14:25.05CIA-6BRL-CAD: won't render correctly (or at all usually). if set to no orientation, they
14:25.05CIA-6BRL-CAD: don't report as hits (nirt).
15:15.03CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33293 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/fast4-g.1: add a note about FASTGEN2 and FASTGEN3 support to the fast4-g manual page, with references to rpatch and patch-g. as well as cleaning up the manual page layout a little for readability.
15:16.19CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33294 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: ws
15:16.59brlcadRalith: nice work on the enum ..
15:17.03brlcad~ws
15:17.04ibotmethinks ws is short for workstation.  White Space, or the country code for Western Samoa
16:51.19Axman6i always wince when i see clock_'s quit message
16:55.07*** join/#brlcad cad18 (n=506097ca@bz.bzflag.bz)
17:52.14*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (n=erik@ftp.brlcad.org)
17:52.28``Erikbitches s'more about his uplink crapping out O.o
17:54.10Axman6:(
17:54.21CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33295 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_mk.c: fix indentation, braces, ws
17:55.23claymoreI think you need to tell Comcast that you are not recieving the service that is spelled out in your contract with them and therefore you are not liable to pay until its fixed :)
17:57.56``Erikcalled 'em at one point when it wasn't working, they scheduled service 2 weeks later, and it started working again by then... :/ (plus I imagine I should clean house a little and hide the networking I have going on)
17:58.26archivistAxman6, you clocks old quit with as many chp types as he could think of
18:17.27CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33296 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_mk.c: clean up comment style, doxygenify all the public funcs
18:25.02CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33297 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_mk.c: reorder to remove the forward declarations, replace x%x with 0x%p where appropriate and quell all warnings
18:28.45CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33298 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/ (archer/Archer.tcl archer/ArcherCore.tcl lib/Ged.tcl): Added more wrappers for cadwidgets::Ged method calls in ArcherCore.
18:57.15*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096601065.dsl.bell.ca)
18:59.15IriX64``Erik... just use printf("%s Version %ld \n",__FILE__,__VERSION__);      ;)
19:01.44IriX64warning... __VERSION__ redefine in (whatever.h)
19:02.16``Erikhuh?
19:02.33IriX64im being silly :)
19:03.08IriX64has archived brl-cad for a few days
19:03.16``Erikshould be more like PKG_VERSION
19:03.18``Erikiirc
19:03.26IriX64:)
19:04.24IriX64i acyually put that in mged (mged -v foo) and i get mged.c 4.2.1
19:05.31IriX64heh use __LINE if you want details :)
19:05.38IriX64err __LINE__
19:06.23IriX64caveat not all compilers support all three of these but most do
19:22.34``Eriknote that __LINE__ __FUNCTION__ and __FILE__ are compiler defined things, I'd imagine __VERSION__ is, too... for BRL-CAD version, you might want to explore the function brlcad_ident()
19:22.55IriX64noted :)
19:23.16IriX64where does it live so i dont have to grep the tree?
19:23.27``Erikum, include/something.h
19:23.39IriX64heh gee thanks :)
19:23.50``Erikinclude/brlcad_version.h
19:23.58IriX64much thanks
19:24.05``Erikmost of the libraries use it to create, like, rt_version()
19:24.45``Eriksrc/librt/vers.c for example
19:24.56IriX64thanks
19:25.18``Erikand if you search for _version in src/rt/main.c, you'll see where that big version banner comes from :)
19:25.55IriX64this changed when i introduced brlcad version 9.9.9 iirc :)
19:27.08IriX64whoa, if the string is null print the version number?!?!?!?!
19:28.15IriX64if (version[0] == 0) print the version blah blah
19:28.46IriX64in version.h line 139
19:28.56IriX64err brlcad_version.h
19:29.27IriX64door brb
19:30.37``Eriksnprintf(), to fill it in... otherwise, just return it (since we've done it already)
19:32.05IriX64ahh thanks i ll open ver.c for example a littyle later ok
19:33.18IriX64sn printf like sprintf?
19:33.46``Erikyes, with a max size, google it :)
19:33.56IriX64ahh ic fill the *whole string in
19:34.10IriX64ahh thanks
19:34.33IriX64case somebody absconded with the terminator eh :)
19:35.29IriX64is this kind of stuff documented somewhere?
19:35.57IriX64a master catalog or something of functions you expect people to use
19:36.08``Erikum, the man pages?
19:36.27IriX64that presumes you can install the beast :)
19:36.40``Erikcygwin doesn't have the manpage set?
19:37.31IriX64does but i rarely use it, so if i need a function like snprintf without knowing itgs name how do i man it?
19:37.58``Erikapropos (synonym for man -k)
19:38.38``Erikor go to http://www.linuxmanpages.com/ or something *shrug*
19:38.50IriX64heh ok
19:45.53IriX64IriX64@dee-f96eba0a615 ~
19:45.53IriX64$ ./test
19:45.53IriX64File test.c Line 6 Compiler Revision 4202505 Time 14:45:21
19:45.53IriX64IriX64@dee-f96eba0a615 ~
19:46.02IriX64$hows that :)
19:47.08IriX64drat i sed %ld instread of %d for compiler revision :)
19:47.08IriX64rev is 4.2.1
19:48.46IriX64its right
19:49.58IriX64http://rafb.net/p/mLdNdB64.html  heres the source heh
19:50.54IriX64``Erik, i haven't accepted, im just playing here
19:51.13IriX64ill try to study some of your functions
19:56.31IriX64ive gotta go, ill be back later on, ciao :)
21:07.52CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33299 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Minor mods to ArcherCore - consolidate the command lists and a few name changes.
21:22.43CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33300 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/patch/patch-g.c: ws, indent, and style consistency cleanup
21:47.37*** join/#brlcad ``Erik_ (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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22:07.55*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096601065.dsl.bell.ca)
22:11.16starseekerbrlcad:  4261666 facets
22:13.35brlcadcool
22:13.54brlcadthat should be about 5-10 million points then
22:14.23starseekertries to run bot_decimate and hangs MGED
22:15.45starseekerAh, one maxed out cpu
22:15.51starseekerSharks...
22:16.41starseekerIt's all about edge_can_be_decimated
22:20.22*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@210-9-142-19.netspeed.com.au)
22:22.16*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096601065.dsl.bell.ca)
22:23.04IriX64apologizes, just realized what im doing here, i won't use your channel to test schtuff like this anymore
22:24.39brlcadIriX64: that was actally all on topic and interactive
22:25.06IriX64well ... just in case anybody got discruntled :)
22:25.14IriX64disguntled too
22:25.24brlcadit's the long drawn out soliloquys that get folks disgruntled
22:25.38IriX64mea culpa :)
22:25.40brlcadand screenshots that are never of anything different.. :)
22:25.50IriX64:)
22:26.03IriX64are urls welcome though
22:27.01brlcadit depends entirely on the content
22:27.07brlcadit has to be something worthwhilee
22:27.16IriX64any idea how long ago i stumbled into this channel looking to render miss april :)
22:27.16brlcadrandom urls out of context .. are useless
22:27.33brlcadi'm sure I could pull that up
22:27.36IriX64ok
22:27.39brlcadhas logs of everythin
22:27.54IriX64how long has it been
22:29.45brlcad16:29 -!- Hagar [n=Hagar@toronto-HSE-ppp4309004.sympatico.ca] has joined #brlcad
22:29.51brlcadthat was on May 17th, 2006
22:29.58IriX64jeez
22:30.15brlcadso you count the days ;)
22:30.23alex_jonithat was my birthday :)
22:30.23IriX64then you taught me nickserv, did i ever thankyou?
22:30.51alex_jonibrlcad: do you have logs when I stumbled upon brlcad first?
22:32.07brlcadas I said..
22:32.12brlcadhas logs of everything ;)
22:32.31starseekerah, blackmail :-P
22:32.39archivistew /me hides
22:33.40IriX64back to play
22:34.28brlcadalex_joni: 15:58 -!- alex_joni [n=juve@emc/board-of-directors/alexjoni] has joined #brlcad
22:34.32brlcadNov 17th, 2007
22:34.38brlcadand no, I won't look anyone else up :)
22:34.49alex_joniheh, cool.. thanks for taking the trouble
22:36.15archivistI could self check but I think I deleted older logs on a disk full one day
22:39.40starseekerbrlcad:  I remember some discussion once about a higher performance alternative to using #define - what was the alternative?
22:42.07brlcadhigher "performance"?
22:42.17brlcad#defines just get replaced during preprocessing
22:42.23brlcadnot really a performance aspect to them
22:42.31starseekerAh, ok
22:42.36starseekercompile time only
22:42.46starseekernevermind
22:44.26brlcadthe problem with them is that they are not compiler symbols, they're replaced before the compiler sees them
22:44.53brlcadwhich can have a variety of unexpected or at least undesirable side-effects
22:45.05starseekernods
22:45.07brlcadthat was the whole issue with vmath's X, Y, Z defines
22:45.34brlcadthat's what Ralith just recently changed to an enum because of said problems
22:45.50brlcadsince it wasn't a compiler symbol, you'd have something like:
22:45.56brlcad#define X 0   (in vmath.h)
22:46.28brlcadand then some other code (maybe openNURBS for example), that would have something like:  int my_function(int X, int Y, int Z) { ....
22:46.40starseekerAh :-)
22:46.45brlcadwhich would then become: int my_function(int 0, int Y, int Z) { ...
22:46.50brlcadwhich is a syntax error of course
22:46.56starseekerow
22:47.20brlcadas an enum, they become compiler symbols and all is better with the world
22:47.31starseeker:-)
22:47.37brlcadbut that's not to say that you always want to use enums either... :)
22:59.44Ralith^^
23:05.15*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
23:30.44``Erik_hm, it was much less cool when I first stumbled on BRL-CAD ... "qq, my job is going away" "send a rezoomy" "um, ok"
23:41.07archivistknows what "my jobs going away" feels like
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081206

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081206

00:14.23*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@unaffiliated/minuteelectron)
00:39.19``Erik_abuses pastebin in horrible ways... http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d47a95afd
01:23.11*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:07.29CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33301 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libgcv/Makefile.am: libgcv needs '-Wc,' too since it depends on librt which depends on openNURBS which causes the __Unwind_Resume linker failure if -fexceptions isn't used when compiling with gcc and using the latest autotools.
02:16.19CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33302 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: fix the distcheck, missing g_qa from the dist
02:44.24CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33303 10/brlcad/trunk/include/vmath.h:
02:44.24CIA-6BRL-CAD: provide the old-school preprocessor directives for the translation and scaling
02:44.24CIA-6BRL-CAD: matrix components as an enum as well like was done for the vector components.
02:44.24CIA-6BRL-CAD: wrap both as a typedef so that they can be categorically managed, compared, and
02:44.24CIA-6BRL-CAD: used too.
02:52.43Ralithbrlcad: remind me -- is it possible to get a 2d outline vector of a plane through a model right now?
02:53.04Raliths/outline/intersection/
02:58.21CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33304 10/brlcad/trunk/include/vmath.h: goodbye SHORT_VECTORS. remove the dead (slower, poor compile-time designed) code and greatly simplify++ the flow of the vmath.h header.
03:39.20CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33305 10/brlcad/trunk/include/vmath.h:
03:39.20CIA-6BRL-CAD: major consistency cleanup. make indent levels uniform. call out the macros
03:39.20CIA-6BRL-CAD: that use a scope by putting the close parenthesis on the final line by itself.
03:39.20CIA-6BRL-CAD: make comments consistently indented and spaced as well as other minor ws
03:39.21CIA-6BRL-CAD: adjustments.
03:47.43CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33306 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/deprecation.txt: the old _2D macros have been deprecated for a long time, but give them some down time in here before giving them the official axe.
03:49.31CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33307 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: fix g_gq typo
05:51.34*** join/#brlcad sporty (n=z@217.8.236.173)
06:13.09*** join/#brlcad sport1 (n=z@217.8.236.157)
06:13.37sport1doesn't work
06:14.34Ralithwhat doesn't?
06:25.14yukonbobhello, cadheads
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11:30.27*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.0 is now posted (20081108)
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14:38.23*** join/#brlcad gentoo_iron (n=phreak@71-210-23-250.eugn.qwest.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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17:13.48brlcadhm, no cia notifications
18:58.33*** join/#brlcad sport1 (n=z@217.8.236.165)
18:58.55sport1starseeker: hello!
18:59.36brlcadsport1: hello
18:59.41sport1yukonbob: i'm still hungry ;-)
18:59.48sport1brlcad: hi
19:00.31sport1brlcad: i have an advance today. the work just goes better: this is an example
19:00.33sport1Номер ident для region используется для указания цвета из lookup table. Значения low и high - ограничения номеров region ident для применяемого rgb-цвета (0-255).
19:00.43brlcadcool
19:01.02sport1as you see, some words are 'special terms' - i don't have to add
19:01.11brlcadsure
19:01.23brlcadthat's good
19:01.50brlcadyou'll be one of the most knowledgable people on all of brl-cad if you read/translate all of the docs like that :)
19:02.11sport1...adjectives on russian as "those things' that thing" - this is a way how complicated russian translation can looks like
19:27.13sport1this is my finished work: http://www.ribbonsoft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1808
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081207

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081207

00:09.28*** join/#brlcad CIA-6 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
00:19.05*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016142244.customer.alfanett.no) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
00:19.05*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@unaffiliated/minuteelectron) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
01:41.57*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177592916.dsl.bell.ca)
01:42.44IriX64regards
01:50.28IriX64the licence says you have to give a copy of your source back to (I assume you people) if you plan to distribute binaries, does that apply too if you're not charging for your binaries?
01:58.54``Erikyes
01:59.14``Erikif you distribute binaries at all, you must make the source available
02:03.46``Erikidentity crisis heh :D
02:05.47IriX64thank you
02:05.50IriX64:)
02:06.42punkrockgirlim confused
02:06.51punkrockgirlhow do you find an oper or staffer
02:07.24IriX64slash msg help  :)
02:07.47punkrockgirlty :D
02:08.27punkrockgirlno suck nick
02:08.31punkrockgirler
02:08.32punkrockgirlsuch :D
02:12.55``ErikO.o
02:16.01``Erikhuh, wedding crashers is on tv tonight, I wonder how much of it was cut out
02:16.03IriX64playfull tonight aren't we :)
02:16.12smurfettei was registering nicks :)
02:16.27smurfettebut smurfette was taken but now is not :)
02:16.34IriX64gloriaholy  :)
02:16.40smurfettelol
02:16.44smurfette:)
02:35.05*** join/#brlcad CIA-6 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
03:26.24*** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177592916.dsl.bell.ca)
03:30.00IriX64_how do you strip a library exactly.... play appropriate music :)
03:31.54``ErikI d'no if stripping libraries or binaries would be useful to you, irix, it's generally a method for removing extra information from ELF or qmagic files to make them smaller on the disk
03:32.37IriX64_just kidding around but thanks for the information
03:33.55``Erik<-- points out that it's only on disk, when the library is loaded into memory, that extra information is not carried until the debugger starts interrogating it... and at that point, you want that extra info
03:34.07``Erikon modern systems, anyways
03:34.31IriX64_understood sort of like map xrefs
03:35.12IriX64my famous cref file heh
03:36.04IriX64stackdumps... im not too  good with
03:37.00IriX64wonder if i could turn this project into a watcom project
03:37.00``ErikO.o I thought stack backtraces were one of the easiest ways to get bunches of info about the state at crash
03:37.09``Erikpunker, play, um, doors, uh, alabama song
03:38.03IriX64-ltcl8.5 .. quit teasing ``erik, eith strip or leave :)
03:38.41``Erikheh, tcl, ew :D
03:38.54IriX64heh
03:39.18``ErikI think all my systems are using libs with debugging symbols all in place, and I even have profiling libs installed next to 'em on several systems
03:39.23``Erikpheer /lib/libc_p.so
03:42.05IriX64http://rafb.net/p/FT2Lkg68.html  <--- master plz, what does it mean :)
03:42.42``Erikhah, that's a crash with no debugging information present :D
03:43.39``Erik'frame' is the location on the stack, 'function' is the memory address containing the function called at that time, and args is what was on the stack or registers or whatever the call paradigm is
03:44.08``Erikin a debug style build, it would say the function name and what the values of each argument are
03:45.23IriX64so all i need is to enable debug build !!!!!!!
03:46.32``ErikI d'no the windows environment...
03:47.20``Erikon gdb based systems, if you're tracking a segfault or something, you set your CFLAGS to be something like "-O0 -ggdb", then run "gdb myprogam" and run it from inside of that
03:47.44``Erik(-O0 is to prevent inlining adn stuff)
03:48.14IriX64prefer cref, but ill study up
03:48.25``Erik*shrug*
03:48.42``Erikbob and andre did a lot of good work to make things compile in msvc, which would let you use the 'debug' target in that
03:50.50IriX64cygwin != msvc
03:52.08``Erik<-- aware of that, has used msvc, cygwin, mingw32, borland, pcc, etc on windows back in 'the day'
03:53.09IriX64missed watcom :)
03:53.26``Eriknever used it, it seemed more focused towards the mac back in those days
03:53.37``Erikand macs were for grandmas and art fags O.o *cough*
03:53.43IriX64loved it's os/2 support
03:54.42``Erikonly used os/2 for a few minutes... was hooked on his c64 until '96, thinking all newer stuff was dos... and couldn't tolerate the suckage that was dos, had used cp/m before dos got popular so knew what dos was doing a horrible job of imitating :)
03:54.47IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/Chat.png  <---- barring that bug its usefull
03:55.05``Erikand in '96, didn't last using dos6.22/win3.1 very long before wiping it and installing linux
03:55.26IriX64heh cp/m and mp/m good ole days
03:56.02``Erikyou still haven't put the havoc in a box
03:56.04``Erik?
03:56.15IriX64why the suns there
03:56.31``Erikbecause you'll get much better results much faster if you put a box or sphere around it
03:56.36``Erikso it can bounce the photons back in
03:57.35IriX64ambient is a better test though
03:57.52``Erikerm, not really
03:58.23IriX64cmon whats the point of putting a light bulb in a box with a truck to see how it looks naturally
03:59.18IriX64just a sec ill upload the photon map control sheet
03:59.43``Erikbecause it's a global illumination algorithm, in atmosphere there's all sorts of refractions and reflections going on in the air as well as off objects, in space there's all sorts of object reflection?
04:00.15``ErikI mean, there was just an article where a team measured reflections of light from a supernova 550 years ago (tycho brae's)
04:03.00IriX64global illumination :)
04:04.13``Erikyou're using photon mapping, right?
04:04.45IriX64yes, my site photon.png
04:05.08``Erikif you dont' have a box around it, or something for the light to bounce off of and around, you might as well just be using shadow rays on simple raytracing :)
04:05.08IriX64not torpedoes :)
04:05.26IriX64i just like the name
04:05.29IriX64:)
04:11.17``Erikaight *shrug*
04:36.01*** join/#brlcad CIA-6 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
05:10.11IriX64is finally gonna retire cygwin for a while, ill drop in from time to time
07:26.59*** join/#brlcad sport1 (n=z@217.8.236.148)
07:59.06*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
08:04.36sport1drinks cocoa
08:15.18sport1elite01: i need your e-mail to send you these .xml - 17 kilobytes. mine is ilyaglkn@gmail.com
08:16.14elite01@blinkenshell.org
08:16.24sport1ok
08:17.57sport1elite01: ok, there also will be my variant in another folder
08:20.39sport1...as those with no some wrong commented as <!-- --> lines, tag <i></i> is inappropriate, too
08:23.50sport1elite01: bzipped tar or e.g. .zip if you're in Windows client?
08:24.18elite01anything, i prefer .tar.bz2
08:24.36sport1ok, i send it right now
08:25.19Ralithbecause 17kb needs compression so badly
08:25.21sport180 kb (i have added some advertisement)
08:25.41sport1Ralith: on gprs it needs
08:27.26Ralithsomeone's on gprs?
08:27.31sport1oh... at a very 'busy' line - i don't even sure it can move to internet.
08:27.34Raliththat sucks :/
08:27.35sport1yes
08:27.39sport1no!
08:28.14sport1i liked it since i payed 4 usd for unlimited per month - but it was too slow/ busy at a day
08:29.43sport1i think the mail has gone. I'm usually not sure - especially when it encrypts 300 kb-in-size files.
08:29.59sport1Ralith: do you know some foreign languages?
08:39.08elite01oh, the mail is there
08:39.17Ralithsport1: no, sorry
08:40.02elite01your system time seems to be way of :)
08:41.08sport1elite01: i work with radiation, and my laptop goes mad while i type :(
08:41.29sport1Ralith: it's ok, i don't blame you ;)
08:55.47elite01sport1, or anyone else, isn't 'dall' a synonym for 'erase'? compare the docs of 'dall', 'erase', 'erase_all'
09:04.42sport1what does "file offset" means for debugdir command?
09:05.05sport1elite01: d = erase, dall = erase_all
09:06.21elite01hmm look at the docs for d and dall
09:09.03sport1elite01: you can paste from mged_cmd_index.html - anyway, it will be a wiki - and someone will add examples && revise that what we write right now.
09:16.09sport1-all deletes *implicitly* displayed objects from mged display, while d or erase - only explicitly-displayed ones, and all four commands do not scratch the database
09:18.34sport1<para>Если создан новый region или существующая combination создана как region, - этой командой - то region-specific атрибуты будут установлены согласно стандартным (смотрите regdef) значениям. Команды comb и r также могут создавать combinations.
09:18.35sport1</para> some words remain english
09:19.12sport1it's from 'c' command
09:30.25Ralith<3 unicode
09:31.35sport1unicode, heh
10:12.17*** join/#brlcad mc96107_ (n=mc96107@adsl23-27.kln.forthnet.gr)
10:29.08*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
10:32.07*** part/#brlcad mc96107_ (n=mc96107@adsl23-27.kln.forthnet.gr)
10:32.10sporty_Ralith: hi!
12:11.10sporty_why don't someone writes something? wake up - and write!
12:12.38sporty_i'm pretty sure it's a morning at brlcad's site and his wife makes him go to the church :) like Homer Simpson
13:03.31``Erikhrm, it's 8am where brlcad lives right now
13:05.45sporty_``Erik: then he will go to the church right now ;)
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13:39.10sporty_starseeker: what are wavelets? as "small waves" or what? i mean overview page
13:54.40sporty_"wavelet decomposition" - decomposition ..."by means of small waves" or "decomposition of small waves
13:54.50sporty_``Erik: ?
14:07.45sporty_brlcad: "interrogate geometry" - does it means any special means to "geometrically interrogate" the geometry - except those as viewing if e.g. different parts intersect or not?
14:08.22sporty_*Very questionable Overview page*. Still translating.
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14:13.22*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
14:15.02brlcadsporty_: wavelets is the name of the property, not implying 'small'
14:15.06brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wavelet
14:15.54brlcadsee the .ru version
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14:23.30sporty_brlcad: gold (tons of which i could buy instead of damn internet traffic) saves me from wiki pages, at least at a daylight. arrrr............... terminal, turning on java -jar $HOME/toonel.har, sys serrings, wikipedia2text go!
14:33.48sporty_probably, "discreet (digital due to divisions) description of analog waves with appropriate tolerances"
14:38.29sporty_as 'decomposition of polynomials, which describe a function', so wavelets are about curves and lines of 2nd and more orders
15:19.36sporty_can i add wiki instead of Butler et al ?? i mean a lik on overview page
15:19.45sporty_*a link*
15:26.05sporty_well, this will be adjusted later
16:30.22brlcadsporty_: yes, all of the docs can be (and are) easily changed if it's an improvement of some sort
16:30.30brlcadincluding indexing, links, etc
16:35.18sporty_Currently, only uniform binary objects (arrays of values) are supported  - is it true ??
16:38.44sporty_ah, i think i has already asked it, and the answer was "nothing else isn't actually needed"
16:40.35brlcadyou already asked that a few days about about uniform binary objects
16:41.15brlcadwe say that only because the implementation is fully stubbed to support arbitrary non-uniform .. not because anyone needs or wants it or knows what that even means
16:45.06brlcadit probably just shouldn't say anything that "only" them are supported
16:46.02brlcadas just about any data file can be represented as a 1-d uniform array of bytes.. :)
16:56.08sporty_"Any data file can be represented as a 1-d uniform array of bytes." - One of BRL-CAD developers.
16:56.27sporty_...for sorta things"
17:04.35*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14D2D5.dip.t-dialin.net)
17:25.59sporty_scratches interesting place
17:26.03sporty_:)
17:26.48sporty_it's a directory with last few commands to translate
17:27.26sporty_thinks about PrezKennedyJR's daughters.
17:31.09sporty_imagines their chest of drawers, the content of two upper drawers. it seems whole universe is in there! What a wonderful things! pants!
17:42.16sporty_starseeker: i send you whole *current* material in its final edition, b-t-w send in parts less than 60-100 kb in a separate letters*. (Or i may not even download it when cell antenna is too busy.)
18:06.06sporty_starseeker: I must say I've started to edit the rest of the file mged_cmd_index.html - and i will send you bits of html
19:45.46*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016142244.customer.alfanett.no)
19:47.45sporty_hope you sport or with wives or sport with wives - not behind TV in a sun day.
20:05.13sporty_happy that he's finished some works - and feel a rush! sporty_ wants to write a bad word! Bad word!
20:05.20sporty_...A bad word!
20:05.30sporty_:-[
20:06.31sporty_:-[
20:42.15*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-58-230-13.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:42.25sporty_hi clock_!
20:42.42sporty_don;t you have a clean asphalt to skate?
20:42.55clock_hi
20:43.16sporty_clock_: i love that film "The rules of 5exual attraction" - i'm on bike in snow, do you?
20:44.16clock_sporty_: do I what?
20:45.05sporty_1. do you skateboarding at this time and 2) do you like that film and 3) do you like to biking in snow
20:45.55sporty_i mean you probably have no snow on the asphalt (yet) this time of year
20:50.34clock_No I am not skateboarding at this tuime currently. I don't know the film and I like riding bike on snow
20:51.57sporty_clock_: i'm too. But why don't you know that film? its german-usa film, as comedy drama
20:53.42sporty_clock_: i need to convert 2D dxf to some format as e.g. STEP, IGES, VRML or BRep... Which one is better? Or all i have to do is a try to do it? i need dxf for gmsh
20:58.44clock_I don't know :(
20:59.49sporty_ok, i will tried it
21:00.14sporty_clock_: what languages except English do you know?
21:04.12clock_Czech German and Swiss German
21:10.27sporty_Czech or Czech German? We have xml files of command reference. 5-6 hours of work
21:15.51sporty_i mean if you think you can spend this time - i can send you e-mail immediately, it's only 18 kb in size. It's a bit boring - it's like Saturday activity
21:22.07sporty_ok, i need to restart
21:23.44``ErikO.o
21:46.52*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177593682.dsl.bell.ca)
21:48.19IriX64``Erik... cygwin apps using the dll, *need an entry in the registry for runtime, just took mine out and all apps don't run anymore (GROAN)
22:02.24*** join/#brlcad sport1 (n=z@loft1436.serverloft.com)
22:03.24sport1clock_: i'm here again, updating the fairy site naturalstuff.110mb.com
22:10.16sport1what an odd-head! Clouds in his coffee, heh..
22:15.44sporty_can someone say if this "vouz a lae" shall be written exactly so?
22:16.58clock_sporty_: Czech and German. There is no Czech German.
22:18.19sporty_clock_: btw, czech shall be familiar to me since i'm russian - and i saw that film about the bodyguarder and yound scolar lady - can you say something on czech?
22:20.52sporty_clock_: so, elite01 has told he can spend some time to the german translation, and can you spend some time on a french one? But it's about 5-6 hours, and only "first" 60 commands of all 400+. I can send you english .xml with my examples - and a color example "Where to paste the stuff, du-uude??"
22:22.46elite01waves
22:23.19sporty_elite01: don't, just relax and imagine some beautiful ladies
22:24.01elite01nice idea
22:24.26elite01what if i'm female?
22:24.28sporty_elite01: yeah
22:24.44sporty_elite01: then i will imagine you :)
22:24.49elite01j/k :)
22:24.59elite01no females on irc, never forget that :D
22:25.13sporty_oh my! :(
22:26.30elite01i'm sorry
22:27.37sporty_no, i'm quite robust to understand the choice to buy new computer was wrong. Should buy a bmx for warm winter days...
22:28.30elite01i like driving around on my bicycle in the evening
22:32.18sporty_elite01: i'm too, even in winter - the routes of my little town become... smooth and have a jumping-off places each 100 meters. But when it's less than 02- Celsius degree you have a chance to hit the knee with a handle bar - the lubricant in rear wheel freezes up - especially if you rode at rivers at sumer
22:32.37sporty_*-20 Celsius degree*
22:33.13elite01not exactly a warm winter day :D
22:35.17sporty_i mean when the temperature is about -9 celsius, but when it's lower than -20 celsius - it's quite cold - and i just do it on my smooth diet when organism is able to heat the hands on handle bars. I do it in jeans, so i'm a though guy!
22:36.18elite01hehe
22:41.53sporty_most of the people who likes it are too young for me. And they don't cycle. I also like to bike through the snow on old opposite bmw-like bike. Its weight is about 200-250 kg or something when it's single. Two carburetors can eat about 7 litres of fuel per 100 km. I want to reduce this to e.g. 4.5-5 litres - but don't want to put a single carburetor for both cylinders.
23:14.25*** join/#brlcad sport1 (n=z@loft1436.serverloft.com)
23:14.51sport1uh...
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081208

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081208

00:01.20*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177593682.dsl.bell.ca)
00:02.26IriX64apologizes to ``Erik for telling him an untruth, was my own code ``Erik, i stopped playing with the dll ages ago, inadvertent tied it to my system :)
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11:42.32claymoreMorning all
12:19.42*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
12:42.22CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33310 10/iBME/ (branches/ tags/ trunk/ trunk/docs/ trunk/include/ trunk/src/): Initial setup of project directories.
13:44.02brlcadmornin'
13:44.58CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33311 10/iBME/trunk/ (16 files in 2 dirs):
13:44.58CIA-6BRL-CAD: Moving iBME to its own module. rt^3 is developing in a bit too many directions
13:44.58CIA-6BRL-CAD: and has become more of a 'misc' module. My hope is to streamline organization
13:44.58CIA-6BRL-CAD: with iBME and pull over applicable aspects of rt^3 as iBME development
13:44.58CIA-6BRL-CAD: progresses.
13:45.01claymorehowd7!
13:45.07claymorehowd7 even!
13:45.20claymorefingers are cold and slow :/
13:49.15CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33312 10/iBME/trunk/ (87 files in 9 dirs):
13:49.16brlcadclaymore: i'm a bit concerned by that direction, to be honest
13:49.46brlcadit's effectively a fork
13:50.57claymoreI have been thinking about the organization for a long while now, and, honestly, there are several distinctly different efforts in rt^3.
13:50.59brlcadit's also pretty natural for things to seem cluttered and messy when it's not code you wrote (whether it *actually* is or isn't)
13:52.04claymoreAnd that the way that the iBME/GS/GE is porgressing, it was going to rapidly take over the rt^3 module... and i definetly don't want to step on peoples toes.
13:52.37claymoreSo the path I see is to seperate, evaluate and re integrate.
13:52.47brlcadit's akin to you saying, I don't want to play in that playground over there (where everyone else already is playing), come play in this new one I'm making over here
13:53.30brlcadI mean it's a *really* classic developer trait to do that .. but it's rarely *rarely* ever productive for long-term maintenance
13:54.09claymorebrlcad: That may be your interpretation ;), but in reality is me stepping back, evaluating and coming back in a few minutes ;)
13:54.38brlcadlike I said before, the 'rt^3' module is no different in direction than what you're calling the iBME module
13:54.51brlcadthe projects, goals, and implementation pieces are even the same
13:57.48claymoreTo a point, sure.  But like I said, I don't want to presume to start re-arranging other people's code when they might not have the same goals.
13:58.00brlcadwe should have the same goals
13:58.11brlcadif we don't, then that's a much bigger problem that has to be addressed
13:58.26brlcadand not something that can be done later
13:58.58brlcadwe should have the *exact* same goals frankly, and no work to date has led me to see anyone doing anything not within the same goals
14:00.11claymore:) if you say so then
14:00.29brlcadyou shouldn't just start re-arranging other code regardless -- you should talk to those that worked on it, that's part of the collaboration and (more importantly) part of the long term maintainability
14:01.51brlcadit's also not "people's" code -- there can be stewards for portions of the code, but there aren't personal boudaries in the code
14:02.09brlcadthere should be nothing that prevents anyone else from working on and improving *any* other code
14:02.19brlcadno matter who wrote it, how new or old that code has been there
14:03.42claymorewhen would be a good day to bounce some build system questions off ya?
14:04.06brlcadany day
14:04.18brlcadshoot
14:07.15CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33313 10/rt^3/trunk/src/iBME/: Moving GS and GE components in adhere to rt^3 guidelines.
14:07.45claymorenon specific, more general questions, actually.  :/
14:09.15CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33314 10/rt^3/trunk/docs/: Moving GS and GE components in adhere to rt^3 guidelines.
14:09.57claymorethe network connection here keeps f-ing up my commits... have to do them peicemeal :/
14:10.05brlcadfor what it's worth, here's a really good article from Joel that summarizes that trait aspect I was referring to
14:10.15CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33315 10/rt^3/trunk/src/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Moving GS and GE components in adhere to rt^3 guidelines.
14:10.16brlcadthey should be piecemeal to begin with :)
14:10.37brlcadmoved this from here to there (because of blah reason)
14:10.54brlcadhttp://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html
14:11.23claymoreexactly.  Problem is moving 4 or 5 dirs is just a bit too much.  Connection drops.  grrr...
14:15.11brlcadhm, I haven't seen that on the mac
14:17.15claymoreI would blame the ide I am using, but the internet and ftp are all flaky too.  probably Windows :/
14:21.04brlcadprobably
14:22.16brlcadanother good article from Joel (though not as poignant as the first), http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000348.html
14:23.08brlcadthey breach into the higher level forkage issues (ala M3) pretty exemplary
14:27.47claymoregood articles.
14:28.04brlcadjoel is awesome
14:28.30brlcadi've not yet met the guy, but he has some outstanding articles and a couple really good books
14:28.57brlcadone little pocket book that I think every manager that hires a software developer (or computer geek in general) should absolutely read
14:29.03brlcadas in required reading
14:30.24brlcad"Smart & Gets Things Done", it's a great little guide to computer geeks, quick read
14:35.00claymorebookmarked that, thanks :)
14:35.36brlcadI have it if you want to borrow it sometime
14:35.58brlcadcan be read in less than an hour
14:37.41claymoreha, now you sound like my wife.  She downed the LotR trilogy in less than a day.  lol.  I don't read fast at all.
14:37.45claymoreADD maybe.
14:39.50brlcadheh
14:40.45claymoreSo, since you offered, how does the BRLCAD build system work ?  :)
14:41.39brlcadwe use what's called the GNU Build System aka the GNU Autotools aka .. Autoconf + Automake + Libtool
14:42.54brlcadI should prefice that the autotools are going to seem like hell BUT you should keep in mind that there is a reason that it is organized and implemented the way it is
14:43.42brlcadwhether those reasons are good or bad today or even relavant any more are certainly debatable, but it's one of those high-hurdle devmanship projects that take a long time to become good at
14:44.18brlcadthat said, it's by far the most commonly used build system too, by quite a huge margin
14:44.54archivista black art build system :)
14:45.05brlcadthere are a few others coming up in the ranks (cmake being a big notable one), but it's still top-dog and one that almost "does it all" and is usually pretty easy to find someone knowledgeable in
14:46.10brlcadso the build system starts with autogen.sh -- that is a script that I wrote that overcomes common configuration problems and "prepares the build system"
14:46.52brlcadit's effectively NO DIFFERENT than running a tool called "autoreconf" that sets the stage
14:47.20brlcadbut as it's one step higher, it can actually detect, fix, accommodate, etc, other configuration issues
14:48.30brlcadso other starting point files -- there are configure *templates* (i.e. configure.ac or configure.in depending on the project, .ac in our case) and automake Makefile templates (the Makefile.am files)
14:49.09brlcadwhen you run autogen.sh/autoreconf, it turns the configure.ac into a configure shell script and the Makefile.am files into Makefile.in files
14:50.14brlcadwhen you run the configure script, it turns the Makefile.in files into a traditional unix-style "Makefile", and when you run "make", it traverses through the hierarchy accordingly
14:52.21brlcadif everything is set up right, the user that downloads a source tarball from us doesn't need the GNU autotools to be installed -- they merely need a shell interpreter to run the configure script and 'make' (and a compiler)
14:53.31brlcadthose are bare minimal requirements that give a consistent and portable build environment
14:53.55claymorecool.  thanks for that.  No i just need to read up on make lol.
14:54.39brlcadactually, not much
14:54.53brlcadbecause you shouldn't really be writing much/any make logic
14:55.27brlcadyou write automake directives, which basically amount to setting variables
14:55.46claymoreWell, I am looking at the contents of the individual subdir makefile.am files.  Just need to know how to define my own binaries and includes.
14:56.04brlcadit's usually a lot easier to (start to) grasp the gnu autotools by looking at exisitng projects than it will be by reading up on it
14:56.16claymoreremember, I am a long time windows turd learning this for the first time :)
14:56.17brlcadif only because there are so many options, things you can and cannot do
14:56.30claymorekk, sound advice.
14:57.09brlcadactually, the minimal bits that are in rt^3 now for the previous code are a decent minimal starting point
14:57.33brlcadit'll take you through ./autogen.sh && ./configure && make should work
14:58.02brlcadso you can see some minimal stubbing in the top-level configure.ac file, and how the Makefile.am files are organized to build libraries and binaries
14:58.14brlcadand it only builds a couple, so it should be pretty straitforward
14:59.07brlcadthe 'brlcad' module gets into a lot more advanced/complicated/special cases and logic/infrastructure needed to support the much bigger complexity there
14:59.23brlcadrt3's is nearly minimal
14:59.49claymoreExcellent, thanks!
15:01.11brlcadso that's the 'easy' one to get up and running (someone autotool-enabled should be able to wrap everything you've done to date in less than an hour) if what you have compiles
15:01.21claymoreOther question:  in header files, is it a compiler specific standard to use a #if !defined(__MYHEADER_H__) for a file called myheader.h ?
15:01.47brlcadthat said, you could also use cmake since it's not the main module -- but there the knowledge base is much smaller, we're just getting started with that
15:02.15brlcadmafm started his gui work for gsoc using cmake
15:02.59brlcadthat's not compiler-specific, but yeah -- pretty standard to have headers protect themselves from multiple inclusion/declarations
15:03.17brlcadwhich was something I was going to change in what you have already, actually
15:03.29brlcaduuids in preprocessor directives is a bit nutty
15:03.57brlcadI mean it's clear why, but fugly as all hell
15:04.12brlcadthe usual is something like:
15:04.29claymoreright, I understand the multiple inclusion protection, its just the '__MYHEADER_H__' thing.. didn't know if that was just good practice or some sorta standard.
15:04.52brlcad#ifndef __MYHEADER_H__
15:04.55claymorethe UUID's are EnterpriseArchitect vomit.  in process of cleaning it up right now.
15:04.56brlcad#define __MYDEAHDER_H__
15:05.03brlcad...contents
15:05.04brlcad#endif
15:05.37brlcadjust good practice
15:06.04brlcadand if you want to get *really* pedantic about it, they probably shouldn't have a double-leading underscore
15:07.04brlcadeven though that's what all of the brlcad module headers do (and what many/most projects use)
15:07.30brlcad"BC_MYHEADER_H" would be the non-offensive compromise
15:07.39brlcador some variation thereof
15:07.48claymoreCurious... whats the big deal with double underscore vs not?
15:08.38brlcadtechnically speaking, double-underscore preprocessor directives are reserved for the compiler to use for internal purposes
15:09.05brlcadthe chance that the compiler would ever use something that conflicts, though, is absurdly small
15:10.37brlcadat least given the _H__
15:11.02claymorehrm, okay cool.
15:11.05brlcadyou can see the built-in preprocessor defines for linux with: touch file.h && gcc -dM -E file.h
15:24.16claymorethats a pretty neat trick :)
15:28.08claymoreare the lines at the end of each file (aka //Local Variables: ) for emacs and other editors?
15:39.38*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
15:43.37CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33316 10/rt^3/trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs):
15:43.37CIA-6BRL-CAD: Changed header preprocessor directives so that they are NOT UUIDs anymore.
15:43.37CIA-6BRL-CAD: Moved Header files to include/ directories. Renamed all file extensions from
15:43.37CIA-6BRL-CAD: .cpp to .cxx per rt^3 standards. Added //Local Variables: blocks at the end of
15:43.37CIA-6BRL-CAD: each file per rt^3 standards.
15:43.53brlcadyes
15:44.30brlcadthey have a specific format that is recognized by some editors that help enforce/encourage consistent indentaiton and other whitespace rules
15:46.15claymorekewl, thanks again!
15:47.12claymoregrumbles about the cruddy network io :/
15:47.22CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33317 10/rt^3/trunk/src/GeometryService/Jobs/ (24 files):
15:47.57CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33318 10/rt^3/trunk/src/GeometryService/ (36 files in 2 dirs):
15:47.57CIA-6BRL-CAD: Changed header preprocessor directives so that they are NOT UUIDs anymore.
15:47.57CIA-6BRL-CAD: Moved Header files to include/ directories. Renamed all file extensions from
15:47.57CIA-6BRL-CAD: .cpp to .cxx per rt^3 standards. Added //Local Variables: blocks at the end of
15:47.57CIA-6BRL-CAD: each file per rt^3 standards.
15:48.29CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33319 10/rt^3/trunk/src/GeometryEngine/ (45 files):
15:48.30CIA-6BRL-CAD: Changed header preprocessor directives so that they are NOT UUIDs anymore.
15:48.30CIA-6BRL-CAD: Moved Header files to include/ directories. Renamed all file extensions from
15:48.30CIA-6BRL-CAD: .cpp to .cxx per rt^3 standards. Added //Local Variables: blocks at the end of
15:48.30CIA-6BRL-CAD: each file per rt^3 standards.
15:49.51CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33320 10/rt^3/trunk/include/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
15:49.51CIA-6BRL-CAD: Changed header preprocessor directives so that they are NOT UUIDs anymore.
15:49.51CIA-6BRL-CAD: Moved Header files to include/ directories. Renamed all file extensions from
15:49.51CIA-6BRL-CAD: .cpp to .cxx per rt^3 standards. Added //Local Variables: blocks at the end of
15:49.52CIA-6BRL-CAD: each file per rt^3 standards.
15:49.52brlcadif you want to change anything about the 'standards' spelled out, speak up -- that is more so that everything is consistent than it is as a "thou shalt"
15:50.11brlcadand so we're not always discussing bikeshed issues that don't matter much ;)
15:50.26brlcadbut there are a few things that are easy
15:51.12CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33321 10/rt^3/trunk/include/GeometryService/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
15:51.12CIA-6BRL-CAD: Changed header preprocessor directives so that they are NOT UUIDs anymore.
15:51.12CIA-6BRL-CAD: Moved Header files to include/ directories. Renamed all file extensions from
15:51.12CIA-6BRL-CAD: .cpp to .cxx per rt^3 standards. Added //Local Variables: blocks at the end of
15:51.13CIA-6BRL-CAD: each file per rt^3 standards.
15:51.32claymoreOh I will.  I just need to understand al the 'current standards' and what they imply first :)
15:52.09CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33322 10/rt^3/trunk/include/GeometryService/Jobs/ (9 files):
15:52.09CIA-6BRL-CAD: Changed header preprocessor directives so that they are NOT UUIDs anymore.
15:52.09CIA-6BRL-CAD: Moved Header files to include/ directories. Renamed all file extensions from
15:52.09CIA-6BRL-CAD: .cpp to .cxx per rt^3 standards. Added //Local Variables: blocks at the end of
15:52.09CIA-6BRL-CAD: each file per rt^3 standards.
15:52.45claymoreapologizes for the commit spam... can't seem to commit any more than 8-10 files at one time without the connection dropping.
15:52.59brlcadthere is no such thing!
15:53.11brlcadyou can't commit too frequently :)
15:53.15CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33323 10/rt^3/trunk/include/GeometryService/ (9 files):
15:53.15CIA-6BRL-CAD: Changed header preprocessor directives so that they are NOT UUIDs anymore.
15:53.15CIA-6BRL-CAD: Moved Header files to include/ directories. Renamed all file extensions from
15:53.15CIA-6BRL-CAD: .cpp to .cxx per rt^3 standards. Added //Local Variables: blocks at the end of
15:53.15CIA-6BRL-CAD: each file per rt^3 standards.
15:53.16brlcadyou really cannot
15:53.35claymorehas very evil thoughts....
15:53.38brlcadI would have said there were at least four commits in there regardless :)
15:53.58brlcadseriously, it can/should usually be as often as you hit "Save"
15:54.12CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33324 10/rt^3/trunk/include/GeometryEngine/ (16 files):
15:54.12CIA-6BRL-CAD: Changed header preprocessor directives so that they are NOT UUIDs anymore.
15:54.12CIA-6BRL-CAD: Moved Header files to include/ directories. Renamed all file extensions from
15:54.12CIA-6BRL-CAD: .cpp to .cxx per rt^3 standards. Added //Local Variables: blocks at the end of
15:54.12CIA-6BRL-CAD: each file per rt^3 standards.
15:54.28brlcadthe messages become much more meaningful the smaller the commit size
15:54.38brlcadand useful 10 years later
15:54.43claymoreI am working on it.  I just have to curb my pseudo-OCD towards 'commiting' vs 'saving' ;)
16:41.26CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33325 10/rt^3/trunk/ (33 files in 3 dirs): refactored a few classes to use 'DbObject' instead of 'Resource'
17:14.17*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14D2D4.dip.t-dialin.net)
18:12.43CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33326 10/rt^3/trunk/src/GeometryEngine/ (8 files): Cleaned up references in both cxx and h files after classname refactor. Individual classfiles in src/GeometryEngine now compile.
18:17.27CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33327 10/rt^3/trunk/include/ (14 files in 2 dirs): Cleaned up references in both cxx and h files after classname refactor. Individual headerfiles in include/GeometryEngine now compile. Added 'iBMECommon.h' file to typedef UUID and URL classes until they are implemented.
19:11.41CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33328 10/rt^3/trunk/ (27 files in 6 dirs): Cleaned up references in both cxx and h files after classname refactor. Individual files in include/GeometryService and src/GeometryService now compile.
20:57.39*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
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22:24.57*** part/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@static-96-255-52-7.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
23:24.30*** join/#brlcad Ralith_ (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081209

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081209

05:14.45*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
05:15.35*** join/#brlcad sport1 (n=z@87.118.102.154)
05:16.00sport1odd evening!
05:16.27elite01early morning here
05:16.39elite01hi :)
09:32.37*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
10:21.04*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch)
10:54.49sporty_clock_: hi
10:55.54clock_sporty_: hi
10:56.11sporty_clock_: do you work with CAM ??
10:56.30clock_If BRL-CAD is CAM then yes.
10:57.41sporty_clock_: computer-aided manufacturing.. E.g. the way they produce wheels at the American Chopper show, or just a program for cutting and laser machines
10:59.16archivistmany versions/meanings of CAM
11:29.00sporty_archivist: do you know any languages except English? You can obtain free CAM Expert if you can verify automatic translation to the couple of languages as Fr, It, De, Sp, Po
11:29.42sporty_i mean my work before brl-cad's translation
11:30.19archivistIm English only
11:30.36clock_knows Czech well
11:31.54sporty_archivist: ah ;(
11:32.07sporty_clock_: tell something!
11:32.14clock_what?
11:33.43sporty_as where can i buy an orange sherbet  (exactly what i need if i will be in Czechia )
11:34.58clock_I don't know what a sherbet is
11:36.46sporty_clock_: then "what is a price for this amount of fruits"
11:37.14clock_Kolik stoji tohle mnozstvi ovoce?
11:37.46claymore'odd evening!'  now thats an awesome greeting... gotta wrtie that down! :D
11:41.57sporty_clock_: still can not understand why czech human language and russian are so different
11:43.12sporty_as "skolko stoit tot kolichestvo fruktov?"
11:43.35sporty_clock_: ah, comrade!
11:44.28sporty_claymore: odd | even evening
11:44.54brlcadthinks he ate too much popcorn
11:45.41sporty_brlcad: eat bananas, mixed with parsley or celery in a blender
11:47.41brlcadthat sounds pretty disgusting
11:48.07brlcadaside from bananas giving me heartburn
11:48.13brlcadthat just sounds nasty
11:56.27claymorelol
11:56.30claymoreagrees
11:56.46sporty_brlcad: this food or death, your choice
11:56.59claymoremilk after an 'over-greese' incident involving popcorn usually works :)
11:57.02sporty_brlcad: naturfood.net
11:57.30claymoresporty_: it doesn't matter what you eat if you are concerned about death.  You're gonna die anyways!
11:57.41sporty_brlcad: if exactly grease kills you - get cola or pepsy! they are acidic - this helps!
11:57.42brlcadsporty_: everyone dies eventually, regardless of choice
11:57.50sporty_claymore: not me!
11:57.54claymorethe choice is how do you want to live until death?  
11:58.04claymoresporty_: You're not gonna die eh?
11:58.04sporty_brlcad: Dunkan Mc Loud - not!
11:58.08brlcadif I have to eat crap to stay alive, that's not good living
11:58.16sporty_claymore: yes
11:58.46brlcadthinks a bowl of cereal will do just fine
11:58.54claymorecalls the men with the 'Happy Jackets' and tells them there is a pickup in Moscow ;)
11:59.07sporty_brlcad: bananas, nuts, nettle, - mixed in salads for whole your family - isn't a crap. But you're right: I hate vegan smoothies
11:59.58sporty_clay 'Happy Jackets' ?? Jackets? "Happy Sweaters"
12:00.05claymorebrlcad: true, but the original premise put forth by sporty_ didn't address *quality* of life, merely life or lifelessness.  Jokes become very un-funny when you take something black & white and drag it into shades of grey :P
12:00.43sporty_i'm about to drink w1ne in another room, so excuse me for an hour
12:00.44claymoresporty_: http://images.google.com/images?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=straight+jacket&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title
12:00.54claymore:D
12:01.59sporty_claymore:but with my internet access, i'm out of images - btw, i will download my free QCad and CAM Expert this night, licensed versions!
12:02.05brlcadmunches happily humming 'cinnamon tOASt crunch!'
12:02.16claymorenice!
12:02.33sporty_brlcad: gluten will have k111ed you!
12:02.33claymoreis a Life Cereal fan.
12:03.10brlcadsporty_: more likely that my car will kill me than anything I eat
12:03.17sporty_cereals is a first step towards vegan -> strict vegan -> re-born in raw vegan with raw salads
12:03.26claymorePersonally, I like a nice warm egg 'n' cheese sammich in the mornings.
12:04.10sporty_brlcad: no! ok i'm going to drink w1ne! Excuse me, the 'liverstodeathers' ;)
12:04.23claymoreadopts a mostly veggo lifestyle, but vegan is waaaay too overboard imho.
12:04.29sporty_claymore: i like chese + garlic, do you?
12:04.47claymorelivers-to-deathers.... that pretty much describes every last human :D
12:04.57*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
12:05.12claymoresporty_: as long as its on top of a fat, juicy steak, sure :D
12:05.18claymorelol
12:05.32sporty_claymore: vegan is hard if you do not take those endorfins from raw, exactly raw fruits - this is a way America is! Raw bananas and ,sadly, tons of dead meat
12:05.50sporty_claymore: steak, no, no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
12:05.56claymoremuwahahahaha
12:05.56brlcadmmm.. steak.
12:06.05sporty_ok, i'm closing a laptop's lid
12:06.44claymoreyes, refrain from talking to us blood thirsty meat eating Americans and drink wine!
12:06.45brlcadto go fire up the grill?  outstanding ;)
12:07.44claymoreI had a neighbor (when I was living down near DC) that grilled each Tuesday and Friday, year round.  I have a picture of him shoveling snow out from around the grill so he could fire it up.  
12:08.13claymoreNow, I like a good bar-b-q as much as the next guy.....  but that was rediculous imho
12:08.50brlcadi used to do that over in abingdon on my grill .. not quite that into a diligent routine, but I was regularly firing up the grill to toss on a steak while the ice cycles melted off
12:09.15claymorethere IS something to be said about dedication :)
12:09.23claymorebrlcad haz it.
12:12.06claymoreFWIW, Hereos Season 3 is making up for Season 2's suckage imho.
12:16.32brlcadawesome
12:16.49brlcadI hope to catch up in a week or so
12:16.59claymoredid that piece of TV awesomeness get delievered yet?
12:17.07brlcadsometime this week
12:17.11brlcadlooks up the tracking
12:18.20brlcadawesome, looks like it'll arrive Thursday
12:18.36brlcadwhich is when my awesomeness couch and recliner both arrive too
12:19.40brlcadit'll be at another week and a half before the guys come out to mount the sucker on the wall though
12:19.45claymoreSo Thursday is the official Day of Awesomeness.  Nice.
12:20.48claymoreDo you have some sort of tv stand to make do until the mounters arrive?
12:21.45brlcadyeah
12:21.52brlcadI call it "the floor"
12:21.56claymorelol
12:22.31claymorethats astounding.....
12:22.32brlcadit comes with a stand, so it'll just sit there until it's time to mount, then it can come off
12:23.46brlcadpresuming it *can* be mounted, that's still tbd
12:24.03claymoreis it just too ginormous?
12:24.59brlcadit's about 115 lbs, which isn't "too" bad .. but it's not clear how strong the support structures are on the wall I'm planning to mount to
12:25.52claymoreWell, if this tv is as awesome as you say it is, then build a small false wall with some hefty 2x10"s behind it!
12:26.19claymoreadd a bit of dry wall, and viola, dead sexy tv mount.
12:28.54sporty_i've used to grow up green salad (a pound in weight) on organic compost beds. Good green salad = salad, grown upon vegetative stuff, not upon e.g. dry blood of animals - because living beings try to reach the balance "acidic - alkaline" - and the ground is ususally a bit too alkaline due to our ecology, gasoline use and so on
12:29.00brlcadthat's a possibility
12:29.42brlcadbut that's also why I'm having a crew do the install too .. so that if something does get screwed up, it's on their hands to replace/fix it
12:29.50claymorejust 'rescued' some prime 2x8" this morning :) 10 of them 7'+ long.
12:29.52sporty_i plan to sell it is amy second business
12:30.04claymoresporty_: 'second' business?
12:30.13sporty_claymore: yes
12:30.15claymoresporty_: Whats the first?
12:30.16brlcadhis first is a porn star
12:30.17sporty_food!
12:30.20claymorelol
12:31.01sporty_first - my skilled work (as "must-have money")
12:31.11sporty_brlcad: right
12:31.28brlcadby day he's a gardener, by night .. *bom-chika-wah-wah*
12:31.40claymorebrlcad: whats a good way to find out which errno.h and netdb.h a header file is including if there are several version of each file on the system?
12:31.47sporty_brlcad: almost
12:32.01claymoreUniversity Parkbench Porn.... lol
12:32.32brlcadalmost invariably /usr/include/errno.h
12:32.54brlcadbut you can turn on the preprocessor debug flags to see for certain
12:33.33sporty_brlcad: can I .Tar compiled source for new installation?
12:33.52brlcadhm?
12:34.59claymoreI love how incredibly useless man pages can be at time.  man g++, talk about info overload :/
12:36.30brlcadheh
12:36.56claymoredon't happen to know what pp flag to set do ya?
12:36.59sporty_brlcad: what if i save compiled source as .tar - can i use it into fresh system with same libs & packages later ??
12:37.24brlcadsporty_: eh, that's usually how binary distributions work, so yes :)
12:37.35sporty_ok
12:38.31sporty_Who's played NFS Undercover ?
12:40.05claymoreLast racing game I placed was an old DOS based version of Nascar :)  Unless you can count 'Carmageddon'.... now *THAT* was fun as hell...
12:41.15sporty_claymore: i know carmageddon. That was fun as hell, especially that 70th or 75th level with a beach, full of virtual people
12:42.09sporty_...and e.g. that police armoured car, which tried to seize you...
12:43.08claymore'Anti-Pedestrian Electro Bastard Ray'  lol
12:43.31sporty_brlcad: "he lets me to go" or "he let me to go" ??
12:44.09sporty_claymore: anti-pedestrian Electro-Bastard Ray? I played pc version - don't know what is it!
12:44.15sporty_ah!
12:44.56brlcadsporty_: neither
12:45.12sporty_they couldn't stay alive, heh!
12:45.36sporty_brlcad: "he lets me go" or "he let me go" ??
12:45.37brlcad"he let me go" (past tense)
12:45.44sporty_ok
12:45.45claymoreTerminolgy question:  Would referring to the statement: '#include <errno.h>' best be said: 'Include the system header file errno.h' ?  Whereas '#include "myheader.h"' is said: 'Include the user defined header 'myheader.h' ?
12:46.34brlcadclaymore: it's a little more tricky than that, gets into some very subtle differences between <> and ""
12:46.44brlcadbut yeah, you could surmise it that way for laypeople
12:46.49sporty_claymore: this difference is only important for random wild lamers
12:47.16brlcadusually <> is system headers, usually "" is 'local' project-provided headers
12:47.52sporty_...who can not compile their version, ...but 'full' variant is better
12:47.58brlcadadditionally, using a relative path ala "./filename.h" usually refers to an uninstalled private header
12:48.16claymorebrlcad: Well, since I fall into the laypeople category, humor me :)  Trying to find the option that shows what headers are being included.  
12:49.22claymoreBut no path name indcates that it is either 'installed' somewhere on the system (thats in a PATH variable or some such) or has been supplied to the compiler via -I (or some other means) ....or am I way off?
12:50.01brlcadmake CXXFLAGS=-H
12:50.08brlcad-H is to display headers
12:50.57brlcadeven with a path name, if it's ralative, it uses either system search paths or -I provided paths
13:02.45*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14C4C8.dip.t-dialin.net)
13:24.37sporty_i think i'm offline again
13:24.47claymoredrunk?
13:24.50claymore:D
13:25.03sporty_no!
13:25.46sporty_/me re-arranges files - by-system-needed-files on offline pc are important
13:26.36sporty_can cd be a safe place for files? what if i will have scratched it? oh my!
13:26.48clock_sporty_: use optar then ;-)
13:26.53claymoreoh my indeed!
13:26.54sporty_need to clean the hdd (not my)
13:26.59sporty_clock_: optar ??
13:27.08clock_sporty_: archiving on paper using laser printer
13:27.12sporty_~optar
13:27.28clock_http://ronja.twibright.com/optar/
13:27.34sporty_clock_: i need to by printer for this
13:27.42sporty_saves this link
13:27.59sporty_but what if i scratch the paper ??
13:28.34clock_If you scratch little nothing happens
13:28.34claymorerecord it and sell the mp3 online..... "wika wik wik wika..."  
13:28.43clock_if you scratch too much, it may desync and you need to manually repair
13:28.46claymoredances.
13:28.49clock_Or you lose some bits. But not all of them.
13:29.47claymoresporty_: Just make two CD's and keep one in a safe place while you use the other.
13:29.56sporty_clock_: yes, and i probably shall scatter archives to e.g. 1000 kb pieces for e.g. cdrom
13:30.04sporty_claymore: ok
13:30.52claymoreonly does the two CD back up for super important data.
13:30.56sporty_claymore: my previous safe microwave oven wasn't safe! I couldn't even push the disk into the cdrom ..
13:31.23claymore.... you put a CD into a microwave oven?
13:31.34sporty_i have two usb flash disks, 500 and 8000 mb
13:31.50sporty_claymore: no, but i did it to destroy some data
13:32.09claymore... ? what destroyed data?
13:33.21sporty_claymore: yes, played in "spy & spy's secretary" with ms.sporty_
13:33.34claymore101% confused.
13:33.55sporty_claymore: yes, data was destroyed - current has destroyed the metal coat
13:34.20claymoreso you played 'spy vs spy's secretary' with a microwave oven and a cd-r and ended up with destroyed data?
13:34.25sporty_hot sun can bend disks, also
13:35.46claymorewas born & raised in the desert... so he knows about sun ;)
13:35.55sporty_claymore: ended up with a number of psycho-physiological culminations with ms.sporty_ ...Some data had to be destroyed though. Such a tradition. Like "Mr. and Ms. Smith"
13:36.46sporty_claymore: sand = offroad
13:37.01claymoresporty_: so what's that have to do with how the grass grows at the base of the Eiffel Tower?  (aka claymore has NO idea what sporty is talking 'bout anymore)
13:37.04sporty_;)
13:37.42sporty_claymore: funny thing, psycho-physiological culmination - just read about it!
13:38.17sporty_claymore: that have to cultivate it, definitely!
13:39.02sporty_updates his site's page
13:41.09sporty_i just think two different flash drives are as reliable as two different cds
13:41.14claymoresporty_: There is some issues with the language barrier here.  Going from CD-R data loss to microwave ovens to spy v spy to 08:36 < sporty_> i have two usb flash disks, 500 and 8000 mb
13:41.40sporty_claymore: wait a minute
13:41.46claymorepsycho-physiological culminations.... makes zero sense.
13:41.54sporty_on ftp right at the moment ;)
13:42.07claymore's mouse freaked out and did some unwanted copy/paste :/
13:42.30sporty_give her a cheese :)
13:43.06sporty_claymore: do you have a mouse? it must be so smart to perform copy/paste!!! Whoa!..
13:44.00claymoreits also trained as an attack mouse and just so happens to be a great swimmer.... so don't anger me >8-)
13:44.18sporty_claymore: ok
13:45.21sporty_claymore: once i had destoryed data on cds in microwave oven. one in in a gas oven. It was needed for the government!
13:46.03claymoreWell if your government needed you to destroy data on CDs for ANY reason... I sure as hell don't want to know!
13:46.33sporty_claymore: no. i will have told you it!
13:47.00claymoredoesn't not haz a headache now.
13:48.56sporty_my copyrighted words: "People use simple words when they are in love - remember this truth. - i.g."
13:49.27sporty_just digging my site (actually an ftp for storing data)
13:51.45claymorewhat is your site's address?  Is it publicly available?
13:52.59sporty_yes, same http://naturalstuff.110mb.com/ - but ftp for me only, not for all
13:54.56sporty_these examples##,pdf will contain short examples analog->fea->analize->new->fea->some-inference
13:55.16clock_analize
13:55.26clock_does it have something to do with anus?
13:55.57sporty_clock_: shut up! "analize" - if only to analize the science!
13:56.09claymorelol
13:56.39claymoresporty_: do you mean 'analyze' ?
13:56.52sporty_claymore: definitely!
13:57.59sporty_who likes "All the leaves were brown and the sky is gray"
13:59.24claymoreCalifornia Dreamin' ?
13:59.32sporty_by the time this science will be finished i will have a lot of time for snowboarding. Only an hour till the mountains...500 usd for boots&snowboard, 400$ new old car = jibbing and back-country
13:59.38sporty_claymore: yes
13:59.55claymorewhat 'science' ?
14:00.33sporty_claymore: and clock_ do you like "by the way" and e.g. "throw away your television" by rhcp ??
14:00.58claymorenot a big chili peppers fan...
14:01.02sporty_claymore: "science" := more than 5 hours behind pc a day
14:01.08sporty_ok
14:01.44sporty_claymore: gwen stehani? i like tic-tac and the sweet escape
14:02.18claymoresporty_: okay, so for you its 'science' and for me its 'work' :)
14:03.27claymoreGwen isn't all that hard to stare at for a few minutes, but I generally don't like 'pop' style music.  No Doubt has had a few good ones, but nothing that would make me buy one of their CD's
14:03.32sporty_claymore: i meant 5 hours of 8-hours working day
14:03.56brlcadfor me it's "fun" :)
14:04.09claymoresporty_: I know what you ment.  and..... damn brlcad just beat me to it.
14:04.24sporty_claymore: i'm a depeche mode fan, had full non-licensed discography in mp3
14:04.25claymoreglares at brlcad for stealing his joke.
14:04.43brlcadchuckles and gets on his way
14:04.52claymore'non-liscensed' ? lol, does that mean illegal lol?
14:05.15sporty_i also like 'counterfeit' of martin e. gore; sex pistols, massive attack, led zeppelin
14:05.29claymorewishes he could reach into his computer and throttle 'make'..... its whooping my ass :/
14:06.16sporty_claymore: 6 mp3 cds with full discography per, whole about 10 usd, ~'99
14:07.32sporty_have anyone seen "sketch show", that Britain one, where they help each other in toilet ??
14:11.40claymorecan't say that I have.  The only real brit stuff i watch is Top Gear.
14:21.44sporty_oh... "they" don't show it right now in Russia. I liked it. I'm looking Fifth Gear instead, but i like their lady a bit more than cars
14:32.00sporty_ok, have to restart
14:32.03*** part/#brlcad sporty_ (n=z@87.118.102.154)
14:33.12``Erik<PROTECTED>
14:35.26claymorebecause I am a noob, I will ask:  if i am getting a '/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lmylibrary' error from ld, and I know exactly where i have the .so, how do I force make to use it?
14:37.18``Erikdislikes "./file.h", especially when abused like ".file.h" or "./FILE.H" (when it's actually file.h)
14:41.15``Erikok, all caught up
14:41.35``Erikclaymore: add it to the library search path, -L/path/to/mything/
14:41.57claymoredoes it have to be absolute path or can it be relative?
14:43.01*** join/#brlcad ``Erik_ (n=erik@ftp.brlcad.org)
14:43.12``Erik_naturally my cable modem at home picks that moment to crap itself.
14:43.25claymorebummer :/
14:43.33claymoredoes it have to be an absolute path or can it be relative?
14:44.05``Erik_claymore: use -L to add a library path for the .so file. If you're building the library and using libtool, treat the .la file like a source SOURCES=mything.cxx ${top_builddir}/libcrap/libcrap.la
14:45.12``Erik_it can be relative, but you might get malformed paths in the ELF header if you don't do everything exactly right (libtool was designed to solve the quirks of installing libraries on various OS's)
14:45.33``Erik_rpath is a bitch :D
14:45.38claymoreactually, I am trying to get a makefile understand the location of a dependant lib.  I am editing the LDFLAGS line in the makefile and am using the -L option, correctly as it may be, and ls is still returning a 'cannot find -lmylib'
14:46.09``Erik_here, I'll swing down and look over your shoulder, just gotta hit the head and coffee pot on the way
14:46.22claymorenice.  danke!
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16:17.56CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33329 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/master/ (main.c master.c master.h): abuse bu_debug to provide multiple verbosity levels
16:30.51claymorebah hell.  Having trouble with automake:  make[2]: *** No rule to make target `AbstractDbObject.lo', needed by `libge.la'.  Stop.
16:31.18claymorewhats that mean?  Is it missing a header? some other source file is needed?
16:32.26claymorenever mind.  gnoob error.
17:30.07*** join/#brlcad sporty_ (n=z@217.8.236.184)
17:31.12sporty_So can I download 32-bit 7.14 tarball?
17:34.27sporty_ah, restart
17:34.30*** part/#brlcad sporty_ (n=z@217.8.236.184)
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17:36.06claymorehai ``Erik_
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18:00.07sport1/nick sporty_
18:01.39sporty1starseeker: when do you plan to implement those translations - this month - or later?
18:02.14CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33330 10/rt^3/trunk/ (72 files in 10 dirs): integrated iBME source into existing build system. Currently builds src/GeometryEngine/libge.la and src/GeometryService/geoservice
18:03.22sporty1CIA-6: you're so... karamba!
18:36.08``Erikit works again O.o
18:36.23claymorecablemodem?
18:36.43``Erikyeah
18:36.48``Erikcranks up some billy holiday
18:37.02claymorelouder... i can't hear it!
18:37.12``Erikhow're your make/autoconf/automake foibles progressing? do you want a trivial example of something? or are ya good for now?
18:37.56claymorewell, unless I am bending rt^3 over w/o knowing it... me thinks its working!
18:38.08``Erikw00t
18:38.34``Erikif you want y our brain to break, examine a generated Makefile.in, or do a diff -y Makefile.in Makefile
18:39.09``Erik(learning to drive, one valve or bolt at a time)
18:39.28claymorenah, I am running out of napkins for the blood running out my ears already.  maybe tomarrow.
18:40.37sporty1``Erik am i right to say: "you can convert files from a number of formats to other ones with those binaries in ~/bin folder." ??
18:41.24sporty1e.g. 2D dxf -> IGES
18:41.32CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33331 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/tcl.c: Modified the rt_comb_get function (i.e. added braces around rgb and shader values when getting all attributes).
18:41.42sporty1oh, no, bad examle
18:42.03sporty1i'm starting to think CIA-6 isn't a human
18:42.06``Erikyou can convert to .g with any ${prefix}/bin/g-*
18:42.15sporty1ok
18:42.22``Erikyou can convert from G to others using any ${prefix}/bin/*-g
18:42.50``Erikwe mandate .g as an intermediate format, we're not a generalized conversion suite
18:43.26brlcadhugs CIA-6
18:43.28CIA-6hugs brlcad
18:43.29``Erikand almost every conversion is lossy and we are missing many round-trip things
18:44.04brlcadexcept g2asc and asc2g ;)
18:44.16``Erikg2asc is lossy, though :)
18:44.37``Erikif you have only v4 data, you can round-trip that... :)
18:46.18brlcadhm, what's lost?
18:46.38brlcaddata may change on you, like sort orderings
18:46.40``Erikmetaballs, I think hyp was filled in, um
18:46.57``Erikprimitive stuff, new opennurb crap , um
18:47.01brlcadoh, but those are effectively experimental new primitives
18:47.12brlcadexcept metaballs.. that was supposed to be done?
18:47.14``Eriknot primitive, um, libpg stuff
18:47.21sporty1hugs CIA-6
18:47.21CIA-6hugs sporty1
18:47.24brlcadthere is no libpg stuff
18:47.27``ErikI didn't do the g2asc/asc2g stuff
18:47.29brlcadat least not yet
18:47.50``Erikthat's why I was bitching up and down about those being archaic and lame and talking about moving the read/write logic into librt (which I haven't done)
18:48.51``Erikis going to try to get someting functional out of src/adrt for customers before vacation, so mball is low priority right now
18:49.18brlcadah, I thought you had
18:49.33sporty1i need 2D dxf -> .g -> e.g. IGES, STEP, I-DEAS
18:50.49sporty1ok, have to change empty sim-card
18:50.52brlcadmost of the serialization is handled via the ft_get() callback
18:51.06*** part/#brlcad sporty1 (n=z@217.8.236.169)
18:51.09brlcadsporty1: 2d dxfs "should"
18:51.10brlcadbah
18:51.18brlcadshould import.. as sketches
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19:08.03CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33332 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libwdb/dsp.c: comment out odd URI building
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19:40.40CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33333 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libwdb/dsp.c: gut it, the VCS will tell the tragic tale
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19:44.33``Erik_wonders if he should've ordered a small sake O.o
19:46.00claymorecan't handle your sake? :D
19:46.17sporty__to love and to live
19:49.33sporty__hole and lorry, my current line is too busy! to login by ftp!
19:53.27``Erik_feelin' a bit good, perhaps better than I should be :)
19:53.44claymorenot the sake then, you just love your work!
19:54.04``Erik_I d'no, I was feeling pretty good about getting to commit this morning (even though it's lame)
19:54.33claymorewell lame is cool too.  otherwise I'm pretty screwed :D
19:55.14sporty__to commit? yourself to belief?
19:55.15sporty__i hope...
19:55.27``Erik_my valid verbosity levels are UNDEFINED_1 UNDEFINED_2 and UNDEFINED_3
19:55.31``Erik_O.o
19:55.39``Erik_any more undefined, and it's too verbose
19:55.40``Erik_:D
19:55.45claymorelol
19:56.29sporty__claymore: here's a letters when i type something - they appear when i push the buttons on a keyboard! What is is?
19:56.29``Erik_(and any more verbose and it'd be too defined)
19:57.05sporty__i guess it's not a pdf book, so i must to read the book
19:57.50claymoresporty__: Is that some kind of riddle or did you just discover what the keyboard is for? :D
19:59.01``Erik_looks at the time, looks at where sporty lives, and ponders how empty the vodka bottle is :D
19:59.36sporty__no, i just going mad seeing this 550-pages book with 8pt font... Oh my!
19:59.39sporty__20 mb of text!
19:59.48sporty__i need to read it, better if withing two days!
20:00.26sporty__``Erik_: no, i have downloaded my CAM Expert - licensed
20:01.47sporty__for former translations - now i'm about to reading a book about form-producing theories and e.g. feedrates of the mills
20:01.51sporty__is not a programmer at all...
20:03.25sporty__my lord, want to hibernate myself and male computer to read the book!
20:03.27sporty__*make*
20:03.27sporty__he doesn't agree!
20:04.02sporty__sudo shutdown -me && +you now --charity-please
20:04.16sporty__don't works!
20:12.58claymoreseconds the vodka theory.
20:16.31``Erik_I hear russia makes some damn good vodka's
20:18.04sporty__don't like the feeling alcohol dilutes fats all around the body. I like to bike instead. Don't even like "reinforced" wine...
20:19.46``Erik_I thought alcohol was unable to be absorbed by fats and carried a high caloric energy which'd often be converted to fat O.o
20:20.06sporty__alcohol is our enemy - that's why i sometimes smoke garlic's stems
20:20.19claymoreO.o
20:20.41claymorenot that ``Erik_ would know.... :D
20:21.17``Erik_jiggles his buddha belly
20:21.21``Erik_66 kilos of pure fatass, yo
20:21.42sporty__not sure
20:21.42sporty__i like champagne and wine (light wine)
20:21.46sporty__i like to eat it over with bananas and apples and so on
20:23.25claymorei thought alcohol was the enemy?
20:24.07sporty__``Erik_: i've imagined you with short black hairs, in blue jeans and red t-shirt... And you? You're fat ??? No!
20:24.07sporty__``Erik_: 66 + 110 = 176 cm - this is your height, right?
20:24.19sporty__claymore: it still is
20:24.53claymoreso you eat the enemy eh?  Want a cheezeburger?
20:25.13sporty__claymore: no
20:25.19claymore:D
20:25.32sporty__sporty__: :]
20:25.48sporty__;-[]
20:27.13sporty__it's a morning of 48-hours day
20:27.27``Erik_173cm, actually
20:28.05``Erik_(and, uh, long blond hair, blue jeans, and dark grey shirt, tyvm O.o )
20:28.24sporty__``Erik_: i'm about 188
20:28.26sporty__i'm more beautiful then :)
20:28.37``Erik_o... k... ...
20:28.53sporty__i can not send 5.9 kb to my site by ftm - only 20% is sent
20:29.16sporty__j/k
20:30.01sporty__i had dark grey jeans and green t-shirt
20:30.05claymorei d'no.... i have heard ``Erik_  is dead sexy :D  You have to fight Punk for him though.
20:30.44``Erik_and punker doesn't fight fair, she's from missoura :D opening blow in a fist fight involves a pickup truck, followed by gleeful application of a 'tar arn'
20:30.59claymorelol
20:31.28*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-58-243-249.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:31.38claymoreand not even a drunk vegan bicyclist can stand up to that! :D
20:31.44sporty__once i had ixed old green + brown = jeans as in "Babies Got A Temper" by Prodigy
20:31.46sporty__*mixed*
20:31.46sporty__claymore: you've told you had hearth or what?
20:32.01sporty__can ypu imagine, i still send those 5.9 kb to the site by ftp!
20:32.34claymorethe hearth on my fireplace is rather nice.
20:33.43claymoreif you meant 'girth' then my response is:  "It was a joke you perv!!!!!"
20:33.49sporty__"Preparing to copy 1 file (5.9 KB)"
20:34.00``Erik_build a man a fire, he'll be warm for the night... set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life
20:34.15claymore``Erik_: Terry Pratchett :D
20:35.04``Erik_still hasn't gotten around to reading the discworld series
20:35.36claymoreits great.  I have only read a couple, but the wife is a subject matter expert on the series.
20:35.46claymoreI have a few on CD if you wanna borrow them sometime.
20:36.14claymoreis 'reading' Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series right now.
20:36.40``Erik_hrm, mebbe I'll take ya up on that, I had the series on drive at one point, but had a drive failure I think (need to look into that)
20:36.59sporty__i read Enid Blayton
20:37.09``Erik_is illiterate
20:37.16claymoreis gonna leave a few minutes early to pick up a Redbox. Gonna *finally* see Dark Knight.
20:37.22sporty__"The mystry of the golden key"
20:37.35claymorehey now, don't cut your ejucashun short.
20:37.37``Erik_the mystery of the golden shower? what?
20:37.46claymorevomits.
20:38.06sporty__``Erik_: golden key
20:38.28claymorehard to type when you convulsing with laughter.....
20:38.36sporty__children detective system... ph... series
20:38.48claymorene'way.  i out.  lata.
20:39.07sporty__ok
20:39.34``Erik_later, dude
20:41.49sporty__|_|:
20:45.51sporty__"got to have a fun - it's all what make sence"
20:46.06sporty__ah,,..,.,, haard to type... sleeping....
20:46.26sporty__turnc off turned on and sleeps
20:46.29*** part/#brlcad sporty__ (n=z@217.118.79.35)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081210

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081210

00:57.15*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177726537.dsl.bell.ca)
05:30.19*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
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09:26.19mafmhi
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10:59.19sporty_hello?
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10:59.51sportyhello, Ralith
11:00.12Ralithhi
11:00.20Ralithalso gnight
11:02.09sportyRalith: right, it's an evening.
11:07.09claymoreMorning all!
11:09.15*** join/#brlcad sporty (n=z@217.118.79.41)
11:16.29sportyRalith: what time?
11:17.20sportyadequate offset from your time =: my time!
11:22.57claymoresporty: East coast Usa to Russia is 8 hours time difference (aka you are 8 ahead)
11:23.18sporty8 ahead or 8 before?
11:23.30claymore(aka you are 8 ahead)
11:23.36sportyyou have another date then!
11:24.04sportyi read morning starts at Jaapan
11:24.32sportyi'm gmt +7
11:25.53sportyclaymore: i'm about 12 hours ahead - let me help you: tell me what do you need to know 12 hours ago!
11:26.03claymoreis it 2:25 in the afternoon there?
11:26.32sportyclaymore: tell me what do you know in future - to send it to "past you"
11:26.48sportyit is 6;00 p.m.
11:27.47sportyclaymore: you have an unique chance! i'm  few hours ahead! tell me what do you need to know few hours ago!
11:28.06sportyit's 6:25 i think
11:29.41sportyclaymore: I have an evening of your morning then? Or do you have a morning of my evening?
11:30.25claymoresporty: are you in moscow?
11:30.44sportyclaymore: in gmt +7, Moscow is gmt +7
11:30.58sportyMoscow is gmt +4
11:31.18sportyi'm like Bangkok
11:31.23claymorevery strange then.  every online calculator is telling me its 2:30 pm in Moscow.
11:31.31claymorechecked three now.
11:32.18claymore.... how could you not see the difference between 2:30 in the afternoon and 6:30 in the evening so close to winter?  Seems like night and day :)  Do you stay indoors all day?
11:32.30sportyclaymore: right, Moscow has 3:30 and I have 6:30 p.m.
11:32.47claymoreoh, I thought you were in Moscow.  Where are you then?
11:32.50sportyclaymore: no
11:34.24sportyclaymore: same meridian as Bangkok, south of Russia. 2 hours drive on car and I'm in those south mountains. The more south - the more it Himalayases me.
11:35.21sportythe city of steel workers, coal miners, and <!-- karamba -->
11:36.06sportyseriously, i'm too close to Japan time, which is too close to West Canadian or Alaskan time
11:36.18claymoreMongolia?
11:36.32sportyclaymore: no, Russia
11:36.49sportyclaymore: :-{
11:37.15claymorei thought you said you were 2 hours south of russia.... and on the Bangkok meridian.. thats Mongolia... *confused*
11:37.48sportyi think time is a juridical fiction
11:37.52sportyclaymore: i meant parallel then ?
11:38.02sportymeridian & parallels
11:38.30claymoreSo are you close to Irkustk?
11:38.40sportyright
11:38.42sportyclose
11:39.10sportybut Irkutsk, not Irkustk
11:39.26claymorelol whooops.  Fat fingers :)
11:39.28sportyit is an hour away from me
11:39.36claymoreAngarsk?
11:40.03sportyclaymore: Novokuznetsk, i'm from www.sibsiu.ru university
11:41.39claymoreWow, Irkutsk is only an hour away?  You must drive VERY fast :)
11:41.42sportyclaymore: if London is a zero gmt, and day begins in Japan - then time is a fiction and this fourth dimension do not really exists! (For that one who moves )
11:42.10sportyclaymore: no, an hour away in juridical time zones
11:42.23claymoreTime is a man made concept.  Its the only way our feeble brains can fathom why everything doesn't happen all at once. :)
11:43.01sportyclaymore: you have a morning of my evening then?
11:43.17claymoreI i get it :)  Just by eyeballing the map, it looks to be ~1000 km :)
11:43.20archivistas a clockmaker I say time is real
11:43.21sportyclaymore: what time?
11:43.43sportyclaymore: ok
11:43.43claymoreSure am.  Send the sun over a bit quicker though, its kinda rainy and depressing.  need some sun :)
11:44.06claymoreOh time exists archivist, but only because we say it does. :)
11:44.16sportyright
11:44.34sportyi'm eating in another room
11:44.39claymoreMuch like distance... it exists, but there are difference measures to a constant.
11:45.43archivistI fighting with a non working clock atm
11:45.59claymorewhat type?
11:46.29archivista Merlin band clock
11:47.25claymoresweet :)
11:49.02archivistless sweet when badly made
11:49.17claymoresporty: My word Russia is a big place.  I have only been to Murmansk/Severomorsk and just have never taken the time to look at a map of Russia and take in to account the map Key .....
11:49.38claymorearchivist: but still neat.  Well, at least for me since I am not trying to fix it :D
11:49.54archivisthad to remake parts
12:01.04claymorewatched Batman: Dark Knight last night..... not as good as Batman Begins, but Heath's performance as the Joker was superb, imho.
12:03.26sportyclaymore: say a word about Mrs.Batman!
12:04.09claymorethe wife and I were making bets as to which villian's will be in the next one.  I am almost certain of the Riddler, but she's got her money on Catwoman.
12:05.14sportyclaymore: say a word about Catwoman!
12:07.34*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
12:08.07sportyclaymore: my ate no-vegan fried in eggs+milk bread this time due to casualties. I wan to say i feel myself fatty life-looser. All the members of my body are full of this heavy things. Never more!
12:08.55sportyelite01: do you need QCad or CAM Expert - licensed, for some verification of automatic translation, Fr and De ??
12:09.24sportyelite01: QCad and/or CAM Expert is what i meant
12:09.59elite01eeh no idea
12:10.03sporty``Erik: we had a nice discussion last time, you were a good guy
12:10.06sportyha-ha!
12:10.10elite01what kind of automatic translation? i'm puzzled
12:10.39sportyelite01: just edit e.g.
12:10.46sportyelite01: wait a minute
12:11.00elite01i shouldn't be editing the xml files you sent me?
12:11.09elite01*shouldn't i
12:11.27sportyelite01: it are different
12:12.34CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33334 10/rt^3/trunk/ (57 files in 19 dirs): Added a simple C++ sockets library (socketcc) and a simple C++ wrapper around the pthreads library (pthreadcc). Added into the build system. Fixed a few svn:ignores here and there throughout the rt^3 dir heirarchy.
12:14.32sportyelite01: http://www.ribbonsoft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1808
12:15.08sportyelite01: this, read commented source of the pages at http://www.ribbonsoft.com/camexpert/manual_reference/ru/
12:15.42sportyelite01: it is only if your skilled job need drawings
12:19.52elite01ah, no, i don't really have any use for it
12:20.07sportyelite01: so never mind it
12:22.41sportyelite01: how are you with that files? I think you need some wine in cold Saturday evening - this is a source of kind words
12:23.38elite01sounds like a plan :)
12:23.49elite01i just translated a few short summaries so far
12:23.53elite01i'm a little low on time
12:25.14sportyelite01: i'm too. I need to read lots of info - that's why i wanted to ask starseeker when will he implement this to server
12:25.48sportyelite01: i think i will translate it at weekends.
12:26.11sporty1-2 hours of fast typing work - that's all
12:27.48elite01hm, yeah
12:28.02sportyelite01: yup
12:28.17elite01as in one boring physics lecture :)
12:28.36sportyelite01: right
12:28.39*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch)
12:28.51sportyelite01: You knew it!
12:29.00elite01hehe
12:31.50sportyelite01: if you study physics, don't let your talent to go far: try something in www.geuz.org/getdp and www.geuz.org/gmsh, or e.g. www.freefem.org - this helps to remember formulae!
12:32.48elite01hehe, luckily, i don't study physics :D
12:32.55elite01not as a main course
12:34.28sportyelite01: architecture or mechanics?
12:35.34elite01electrical engineering :)
12:39.11sportyelite01: try GMSH and GetDP then
12:42.10elite01ook, thanks
12:43.39sportyelite01: it is more easy right at the moment - when you study this formulas. You also can discuss it with teachers and involve it into your term work
12:45.18elite01alright, i'll take a look at it
12:45.34clock_tarzeau: gehst du snoebere?
12:46.38sportyclock_: gehst!
12:50.30sportyelite01: it's about fem | fea - they can e.g. visualize the current in a mafnetron or model an electric machines. FEM | FEA for mechanics differs: it's separated from the physics to reliability and longevity. Forms & sizes of the details are in questions
12:52.14sportybrl-cad is a fast way to create geometry, the only way to manage complicated toologies on 'usual' pc with mean price
12:58.48sportyit's cruel: "i wanna play ultima online using razor" me: "razor probably don't want to play with you ;)"
13:14.03sportyhello?
13:14.48claymorehai!
13:15.25sportyclaymore: hi!
13:17.59sportyso how do ya?
13:18.01sportyclaymore: what time?
13:18.01sportyi have no watches in my computer...
13:18.23claymore0818 my time
13:18.39claymoreso..... 2018 your time. (I think)
13:18.49sportyclaymore: morning? right!
13:19.16sporty"i don't care, baby, i'm not scared"
13:20.27sportyclaymore: i still can send you important info from 'future you' to 'morning you'.
13:21.17claymorenah, nothing I really need to know.  Thanks though.
13:21.36sportyAs e.g. "Hello, claymore, i'm an 'evening claymore' - and i want to say: Don't eat that cheeseburger - or you will be half-a-pound heavier at the evening!"
13:22.33claymoreOh, no cheezeburgers for me.  Big ol bowl of Beef stew!
13:22.56sportycheeseburger <> applesuburban
13:23.08sportyantonyms ...
13:23.42sportystew is a kid from griFfins
13:23.56claymoreis that a book?
13:24.21sportyclaymore: antonyms? applesuburban? Griffins?
13:25.18sportyGriffins = Family Guy
13:25.26sportytv cartoon series
13:25.55claymoreYou lost me.  I don't watch that one.  Don't really watch any cartoons anymore.
13:26.58sporty"If you see grass in a pile, it is probably a compost bed." - the folks' poroverb
13:27.45sporty..or AI, made upon a perl
13:27.52claymoreWhats that have to do with the average airspeed of a laden South European Swallow?
13:28.14clock_bin laden?
13:29.01claymoreNo.  Not him.  My post was just a joke.
13:29.03sportyah?.. I just write sings like this: "Be a kind human of the world, yeah!"
13:29.34claymoreI figured since you were being totally random, so would I :)
13:29.55sportyi was, heh... :)
13:30.44sporty“It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!” - Scooter's Move Your As5
13:31.22claymoreDid 'Scooter' do a song called 'Fire' ?
13:31.42sportyThis my is my favourite: "Since all the words are just a vanity bag, shut up!"
13:31.45sportyclaymore: yes
13:32.27claymorethought so.
13:37.35sportyScooter has a nice thong "I'm Raving" - "...and do you really feel the way I feel?"
13:38.01sportyamd e.g. "Fate"
13:38.12claymoreUnless Scooter is a chick, I don't wanna hear about any thongs!
13:38.54sportyclaymore: hungry?
13:40.02claymorehad a long night and is enjoying Beef Stew :)
13:40.09sportyclaymore: "Roasted Apples", bananasuburban (as cheeseburger), grape juice, some green salad
13:40.33sportyok
13:40.51claymoredoesn't know what bananasuburban is...
13:41.12sportybanasuburban is kind of a raw vegan cheesburger
13:41.21sporty*bananasuburban
13:41.40claymore~bananasuburban
13:41.46claymore:/
13:41.50sportybanana <> cheese, suburban <> burger
13:41.51claymoretalk to me ibot.
13:42.23claymoredoesn't sound very good, actually.
13:42.34sportyclaymore: you're not a comuter jeday, ha-ha!
13:42.46claymoreIf I want to eat a banana, I'll eat a banana.
13:43.10sportyclaymore: why? It's like "Come on get a banasuburban!"
13:43.35claymoreI have had vegan stuff before and didn't like very much of it.
13:44.19claymoreBut, as far as you have described it to me, bananasuburban is a banana on bread.
13:44.34sportyclaymore: anyway, even the formula """vegan + sometimes a coffee""" is better than "80% steamed vegan ration + coffee + roasts-toasts-meats"
13:45.08sportyclaymore: no, real vegan is e.g. fruit salad with veggy oil
13:45.12claymorei completely disagree.
13:46.28claymoreSome parts of the world, like mine, do not have access to enough of the required fresh veggies to support a healthy vegitarian diet without suppliments.
13:46.54claymoreAs it is, I have to take iron suppliments because I choose to keep my red meat intake low.
13:47.09sportyclaymore: well, i had problems with health - i have to e.g. look for chances something will be "diluted" in my organism when i'm on right ration - i mean e.g. those secondary trash at backbone and so on. Rode bike withing 5 hours at -15 celsius in thin gloves. Greatest metabolism ever.
13:47.22claymoreSo, I disagree with 'vegan is better'.
13:48.03claymoreVegan might work for some people, but not all.
13:48.54sportyclaymore: i have only 3 month of summer - and i have only carrot, potato, apples (too little amount for a while) - any grass-like stuff as e.g. dry parsley, dendelion leaves and so on, beetroots, cucumbers (summer 'juicing') - and so on
13:50.54sportyclaymore: vegan works after e.g. 6 months on such a diet - when your ferments can "forget" about the meat. "Grandeur disillusion FRME (for recent meat-eaters)" - this how this phenomenon is called!
13:51.31sportyclaymore: we buy banana 1 usd per 1 lb
13:51.48sportyah!
13:52.02sportyaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!
13:52.11sportyclaymore: can you hear me?
13:52.17sportyaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
13:52.37claymoreand I would be willing to bet that if the quality of the foods you eat are high enough, aka enough iron, then your can easily handle a vegan diet without fear of anemia.
13:52.44sportyRRRRRRRRaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
13:53.32sportyclaymore: actually, it are my own organic veggies - grown upon a compost!
13:53.56claymorehowever, the foods available to me are pretty low in iron, so I need to either take suppliements or have the occasional raw meat.
13:54.43claymoreSo, again, vegan doesn't work for everyone.
13:55.13sportyclaymore: the true: "After long-term raw vegan I can easily say if this food contain necessary for me micro-elements or not - just like a rat!"
13:55.39claymoreI really have no idea what you just ment by that....
13:57.12sportye.g. when you're hungry, you can think: "Aha, i don't really want nuts - at least at the evening. I want some apples rifgt now - two acid ones, three with soft taste a bit later. I may want to cut these soft apples and mix it with veggy oil and some dry parsley."
13:57.12claymoreBut if a vegan diet works for you, then good for you.
13:57.35sportyclaymore: no one has died from being vegan, and raw vegan
13:59.17claymoresporty: I beg to differ.  There are quite a few cases of vegetarians developing chronic anemia and have died from infections.
13:59.47claymorehowever, in all fairness, vegans are not the only ones prone to anemia.
14:00.06claymoreAlso:  A vegans die... just like non vegans.
14:00.32sportyclaymore: it works for me, right. But, it can work for anyone. Just keep in mind strict raw vegan course when you will die from disease. I had problems. It is something weird when you feel this taste of bananas you ate two days ago in a mouth - dirty food do the same - but you can not feel dirty foods when you're not a raw vegan.
14:01.07claymoreSo, if you firmly believe that the diet you subject yourself to is the best for you, great!  However, i know for a fact that it will *not* work for everyone.  Such a generality is very narrow minded indeed.
14:01.27sportyclaymore: no, i mean "general" cases - when some kids stop to feel bad since they go vegan (no bread) and so on
14:03.31claymoreVegans don't eat bread?  That I don't understand.
14:04.50sportyclaymore: people have no time and efforts to do everything rightly! On the third-fourth week of the vegan diet you start to feel so-called crisis - when e.g. you feel skin scratches and so on. Good soft  diet as "Milk+fruits+veggies" till the end!
14:05.52sportyclaymore: vegan dies from bread, to be correct. Meat is better, than any gluten intake
14:07.31claymore.... um you do realize that bread contains zero animal products.... right?  If one chooses not to eat bread... than that has nothing to do with Veganism.
14:08.39claymoreWHat?  A vegan dies from bread?  Thats just plain silly.
14:09.03sportyclaymore: ~gluten, ~celiac disease
14:09.04sportyok, let's have a meet at e.g. 2080 at Alaska: i will have come on a bike, though even snow - and you will be cute old guy, who will be so weak as old guys are!
14:09.09sportyah, just try since people say
14:11.05sportyclaymore: bread isn't a human food, that's all
14:11.10sportyclaymore: vegans are bad vegans if thet ***had not unintentionally stopped to eat bread*** - e.g. on the third year after they'd stopped to use meat and eggs in their ration
14:11.27claymoreheh, right.  If you make it to 2080, then you're on. lol.
14:11.37sportyclaymore: it's not a theory, all what i say about are testimonials.
14:12.26claymoreBread is too a human food.  Bread has been around since the begining, way back when people lived much longer than we do now... and yet bread is not a 'human' food?  lol.
14:13.01sportyclaymore: then, ok, we have a meeting! in 2080, somewhere
14:13.31sportyclaymore: you will bursting with envy!
14:13.40claymoreI am begining to think that what your definition of vegan is a bit off from mine/the internet's
14:14.05sportyclaymore: no, it happens due to feodalism (to store & supply with cereals is easier) and e.g. climate changes
14:14.16claymoreWell, If i live to be 113 then I probably won't care about you or your veggies :)
14:14.39sportyclaymore: mine is "raw vegan - or at least a vegan"
14:15.11sportyAlexander Chuprun 's book, Canadian Young Street Journal, or e.g. www.naturfood.net
14:15.40sportythere's english pages
14:16.09claymoreWell now, Raw Vegan != Vegan.  Thats something entirely different.
14:17.33sportyno, vegan = stop to eat meat & eggs.
14:17.43alex_jonithat's vegeterian
14:18.13alex_jonihttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veganism <- for vegan
14:18.20claymoreVeganism has more to do with the unethical use of animals as food than it does health benefits.
14:18.23sportyright vegan = some background as e.g. "wait 6 month - then you wil digest vegan food better, NO bread"
14:18.43sportyalex_joni: wiki has too conform pages
14:19.01claymoreVegans eat bread.  Raw vegans do not.... per my interactions with them and what information is available on the internet.
14:19.43sportyclaymore: no, raw vegans "tried to eat soaked cereals" - but "when stopped, felt better"
14:20.07sportyi think http://www.naturfood.net/english/ - i can not use http traffic at the moment
14:20.39claymoreThen, again, your geographical area's ideas of a Vegan/Raw Vegan differ from mine.
14:21.01claymoreWhere i come from Vegans eat bread and Raw Vegans do not.
14:21.15sportyclaymore: i live in a cold place.
14:22.00sportywe seed at may, harvest at september - that's all!
14:22.23sportyi like raw potato - and many like it.
14:22.40sporty*plant*
14:23.13claymoreWhats that have to do with Bread?  Raw Vegan's (according to my neighbors) don't eat anything cooked above 100 degrees F (Ithink)... and that includes bread.  Vegans eat bread a plenty.
14:23.44sportyok, i think i had good practice in english this day, let me gain some money - and in 2080 i will meet old claymore, in 2500 i will be a president of US!
14:24.07claymoreI like potatoes also, very occasionally raw.  Depending on the area of the world you live, thats an invitiation for death.
14:24.07sportyabove 54 celsius degree, right
14:24.54claymore2080 and 2500 eh?  Well they will probably have you locked up by the end of the year if you keep spouting statements like that ;)
14:25.02sportyclaymore: bread caused me headaches since 5 to 22 years old. I din't know a reason!
14:25.23claymoreYou probably have an allergy of some sort.
14:25.25sportyclaymore: right, comrade!
14:25.50sportyi'm about an underground, dear revolutioner!
14:27.04claymoreYou are definetly unique.  I mean that.
14:27.16sportyclaymore: no, it was an excess of a gluten - this mucus like thing can also cause asthma... I feel, and i feel good, it's understood. And sometimes i'm sad, i'm sad and i want my dad
14:27.48claymorejust experienced a Dr Suess moment.
14:27.59sportyclaymore: have you played Grim Fandango ??
14:28.28sportyit's a quest
14:28.32claymoreNope.  A friend did... and i decided that it didn't look fun.
14:28.37sportyon pc, from '99
14:28.57sportybut i didn't know english and it seemed cool
14:29.59claymoreFinal Fantasy 1-13 is more to my liking.  That and occasion game of AOE or Civ
14:30.21sportyi don't know this games.
14:30.48claymorehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy
14:30.54sportyclaymore:  do yu know "Dr. Metcaff" ? '98 game on ps, horrible quest?
14:31.12claymorehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Empires
14:31.33claymorehttp://www.civilization.com/
14:31.40sportyclaymore: i saw game, but hadn't played - and my "http traffic" is a "http spot" this time of the day
14:32.01sportyclaymore: it are non-cheap games
14:32.26claymoresporty: can't say that I have ever heard of Dr Metcaff
14:32.29sportycheap game: spot, bmx, girl, 5ex
14:32.38sportyclaymore: ok
14:32.55claymorejust curious... how old are you sporty
14:33.16sportyah, 24 jack's as5
14:33.25sportyand you?
14:33.25claymorepardon?
14:33.35claymoreturning 31 this year
14:34.09sportywell, to be brave, 24 - but all the thoughts and interest are about the bikes, snowboard and so on
14:34.18sportyclaymore: ok
14:34.45sportyclaymore: shall I write sir claymore ? ;)
14:35.25claymoreGo right ahead.
14:35.51claymoreDon't forget to govel before your superior thought.
14:36.03claymore*grovel
14:36.20sporty31 is a pretty awful. what if i will have to say someone on bmx: "i'm 31" Awful... No, it will have not happened! I stop the time!
14:36.46sportyclaymore: ok
14:37.28sportyclaymore: so, only 30-40 years to come? Time to think about the raw vegan!
14:38.02claymoreHeh, well, its all about choices.  Me?  The last BMX i rode was the one I had when i was... um... 10.  i grew out of those and got a big boy bike :P
14:38.39claymoresporty: Raw Vegan?  Heh, not likely.  That would bring about my demise much faster than 30-40 years.
14:40.12sportyclaymore: you probably have a machine, producing a juice from carrot, apples, oranges? Use ati-oxidant from fruits & vegetables. It produces good breast & Co. Study children to love vegan foods. To be true, i have no idea what to do after work except bicycle or e.g. snwbrd in winter.
14:40.50sportyclaymore: mind me in your demise, i will mind you - let's see who's right!
14:41.03claymoreMy family's diet is superb, thank you very much.
14:41.38sportyclaymore: ok, but "armoured" means "protected"!
14:42.46claymoreMy oldest son could count to 250 when he was 30 months old and was doing basic arithmetic by 3.  he is of the perfect height and weight and always has been.  He is not a vegan.
14:43.22claymoreSo, to be honest, its a bit presuptious of you to automaticly think you know how to improve my family's health.
14:44.21sportyclaymore: i mean e.g. cancer or problems with veins. Food theme is rather more intimate than e.g. words about the relations in the family.
14:44.40claymoreIf you want something to do after work, help out the common man.  Volunteer at a local homeless shelter or soup kitchen.
14:44.59sportyclaymore: rather to preserve since it usually goes down at 12 years old
14:45.41claymoreBoth my wife and I are very familiar with our family's health history and are on the watch for any of the genetic 'hand me downs'
14:46.05claymoreI take it you have a child that is older than 12?
14:46.55sportyclaymore: we have no it. I also have two backbone's breaks at different places (before i were 10) - so i'm in the situation painkillers vs. interest+sport when i'm behind pc.
14:47.27claymoreso you have trouble sitting for long periods of time?
14:47.50sportyclaymore: no, even doctors admit it.
14:47.59claymoreadmit what?
14:48.29sportyyes, but since i'm raw vegan - everything is ok - when i pay a time to do some sport as i;ve used to
14:49.08sportyadmit that people start to "age" since 12
14:50.03sportythese days i break my diet. All the same it was before - so strict raw vegans cures virtually all, just believe.
14:50.22claymoreSo... you broke your backbone twice as a child, and now that you have pain after sitting at a PC for long periods of time, you think the Raw Vegan lifestyle compensates?
14:50.24alex_jonisome people used to say that about religion
14:50.52claymorealex_joni: use to say 'what' about religeon?
14:50.57claymore*religion
14:51.26sportyalex_joni: come on! religion is virtual, but i usually eat 4-9 puonds of raw vegan stuff a day! This what drives the health
14:51.46sportyclaymore: that it cures
14:52.11claymoreOkay, so what if studies have shown that a humans body begins to age at the 12 year point.... there still is no conclusive data to support the statement 'a vegan lifestyle makes you live longer'.  nor is there anything conclusive to an opposite statement.
14:52.17sportyi can believe in sporty resilient women, which cures, though!
14:52.22alex_joniclaymore: " strict raw vegans cures virtually all, just believe."
14:53.18sportyclaymore: vegan style = more sport, more kiddish interests, more simple relations -> less nerves and so no, and so on
14:53.35claymorealex_joni: that does draw in interesting parallel.  Since most (if not all) religions are based on faith (aka believing the scientificly unproveable) then the whole Vegan vs Non-vegan debate is also about faith... since nothing has been proven yet.  interesting.
14:53.53alex_joniclaymore: that's what I meant
14:54.13claymorealex_joni: That was me thinking with my keyboard... sorry :)
14:54.49sportyalex_joni: but i say i feel better when on raw vegan - i can cycling and not sit e.g. 30 minutes or so t the start
14:55.14claymoresporty: You still confuse me.  Having an active lifestyle has nothing to do with being a Vegan... its just a smart thing to do to keep your body in shape.
14:55.38sportyah, never mind long-haul debates - it is usually a fake!
14:56.16sportyclaymore: when you sport, you need to be sure your veins pump good content
14:56.28sporty*pumping up
14:57.41claymoreGood health = excerise >4 times a week, and monitor the quality and quantity of food you eat.  period.
14:58.09sportyyou  may have e.g. a varicosis if you *have to * stay at work - on the legs after meattish ration, in the lower part of the belly - after bread-dish ration
14:58.14claymoreI know quite a few Vegans who are in excellent health.  I also know quite a few Non-Vegans who are also in excellent health.  
14:58.44claymoreLongevity of a persons life is determined by millions of variables... only one of which is the food they eat.
14:58.56sportyclaymore: meat > bread - better than bread
14:59.15claymoreSo directly relating long life to the food you eat is foolish at best.
15:00.01claymoremeat > bread?  I disagree.  They are both equally important to a balanced diet.  When consumed in correct portions of course.
15:00.15sportyclaymore: then i meant whole lyfestyle when i said about the longevity. E.g. TYou eat fruit salad when you hungry - just like young boy, not like "adult president of a firm"
15:00.41claymore...... what?
15:01.28sportyclaymore: Sir Claymore
15:01.33sporty:)
15:01.45claymoreThats better.  Now kneel.
15:01.51sportycan't type anymore
15:02.06sportykneekicks claymore
15:02.29sportySir Higher Sporty
15:02.48claymorei'll agree with the 'high' part.
15:02.56claymore:D
15:03.28sportyclaymore: how about Discovery? Bear Grills? I mean rather non-complicated foods than any theory then
15:04.08sportyclaymore: so how about to eat fruit salad? Do you like it?
15:04.10claymoreDiscovery.... the TV channel? .... the NASA orbiter?
15:04.22sportyclaymore: yes, tv channel
15:04.30claymoreI love fruit salad. In fact, I have some here to do with lunch.
15:04.45claymoreWhat is 'Bear Grills' ?
15:04.54claymoreto do = to go
15:05.46sportyclaymore: what if you eat it today with some veggy oil to get fats, and tomorrow, and later? What will happen? Almost nothing! But you will be full of energy after few months
15:06.09sportyclaymore: Extremal Surviaval Guide.
15:06.13claymoreI am full of energy right now.  Who said I wasn't?
15:06.37claymoreNever seen that show.
15:07.06claymoreI have saw a commercial or two, but I generally don't watch too much tv.  Way too much to do around the house.
15:07.32sportyclaymore: well, i know a source of a very inspiring words, and i have done it - i know what they say about, that's all. Nothing to do with talks and debates. Debates are always a fake, remember it.
15:08.15claymoreDebates are only worthless if one of the sides has a closed mind.  Otherwise they are very VERY worthwhile.
15:08.20sportyclaymore: but i look it whilst the routin work behind pc, as e.g. awaiting the results and so on
15:08.46sportyclaymore: but i have not inspirited you to evan try
15:09.02sportyi.e. it wasn't worthwhile
15:09.23claymoreand that just proves that you either didn't listen to what I had to say, or didn't understand.
15:10.28claymoreMy wife and I have already tried as much of a vegetarian diet as we possibly can without running the risk of health problems.  This is based on the foods available to us and our family's health history.
15:11.01claymoreIf the point of any 'diet' is to keep your body as healthy as possible, then thats exactly what we are doing.
15:11.18claymoreVeganism is not the ONLY diet that promotes good health.
15:11.47claymoreThere is no conclusive studies to show if any specific diet is better than another.
15:12.08sportyclaymore: i want to say raw vegan is a bit more than any human can write about. It's like... you feel a dick, you can end up some task withing 10 days and ten nights with no being tired and so on. Another way of metabolism, great changes in the organism. Later, you discover the changes past/now. And feel a fear that something can go back. Not much from theories actually.
15:12.34claymoreIf you honestly believe that Veganism is the best for you, then thats just fine!  But don't presume to know that you know what is best for anyone other than yourself.
15:13.07sportyclaymore: ok
15:13.25sportyclaymore: but i still can offer it
15:13.42claymoresporty: No need to offer when its already been considered.
15:13.51claymore.... and partially implemented.
15:14.29sportyclaymore: ok
15:16.57sportywill watch Tv and drink cocoa with milk since i break my diet these days. I wish i feel myself as best as before. Or i would finish current goals behind PC twice a faster!
15:18.50claymoreSo stop wishing and make it happen Vegan man!
15:22.04claymoreYou sure aren't gonna make it to 2080 and be able to laugh at me when you are sucking down Hot Cocoa while sitting on your butt watching TV!  Remove the chair from your PC desk and jog in place while you work the Translations for BRL-CAD!
15:22.12claymore:D
15:22.32claymoreI wanna see 30 mins joggin in place.  Begin.
15:23.11clock_claymore: I don't even have a chair on PC. I have a stationary bicycle instead of it
15:23.20clock_claymore: so I can either stand, or sit on a stationary bike, or pedal the bike
15:23.34claymoredoes it power the electric generator that runs your computer?  That's my idea of dedication!
15:23.46clock_yes it did before the overvoltage protection blew
15:23.50clock_now I have to design a better one
15:24.03claymorelol
15:24.04clock_I will not run my PC again without overvoltage protection
15:24.18clock_I already gave 400V to my laptop when it's rated to max. 357V (rectified 240V)
15:24.27claymoreno offense, but thats a given :)
15:24.34clock_yesterday I tried a 60W 230V bulb on 400V
15:24.41clock_It's so hot it shines almost blue
15:24.42claymorelol
15:24.44clock_like an A-Bomb!
15:24.59claymoreoh, an A-bomb is blue eh?
15:25.12clock_dunno. But as bright :)
15:25.23claymore:)
15:25.32claymoreVRs are super simple and cheap.
15:25.37clock_what is it?
15:25.47claymoreVoltage Regulators
15:26.11clock_I need something bit different
15:26.13claymoreespecially if the load is moderately constant.
15:26.20clock_a simple VR would expose the machine to dangerous level of dry-run voltage
15:26.37claymoredepends on how you build it.
15:26.57clock_it's a self excited induction generator
15:27.08claymoreac or dc?
15:27.17clock_an asynchronous 3-phase sine wave generator working on the principle of resonant circuit between the winding inductance and excitation capacitance
15:27.30clock_so it has tendency to produce tremendous amounts of power under certain conditions
15:28.07claymore... that doesn't make sense.  A generator only makes voltage.  power output is a function of load on the line.
15:28.35claymoreis assuming 50 or 60 hz? or is it a high freg gen?
15:28.37clock_here the voltage increases exponentially until something goes
15:28.44clock_normally the core saturates and starts heating
15:28.49clock_50 Hz
15:28.56clock_25-30 Hz at shaft
15:29.06claymorewhats the prime mover>?
15:29.12clock_stationary bicycle
15:29.15claymorelol
15:29.16claymoreokay
15:29.35clock_without load it goes easily over 500V
15:29.36claymoreso its variable frequency out put with a max of ..... 50hz>
15:29.38claymore?
15:29.44clock_the caps also have some limited rating I don't want to blow them
15:29.53clock_no it's a variable frequency without any max
15:29.57clock_you can pedal as fast as you want
15:30.18claymorewhats the use?  aka, what is it powering?
15:30.25clock_powering?
15:30.31clock_the use is for fitness and fun
15:30.52claymoreso if there is no load, then there is no problem with anything the generator does.....
15:30.57clock_ah yeah sometiems I connect a soldering iron sometimes a light bulb sometimes a fluorescent, or a laptop
15:31.07clock_well it self-destructs
15:31.09sportyclaymore: ok, but i translate behind old American Chopper series
15:31.20clock_the produced energy is used to destroy it's own electrical components
15:31.25claymoreso the various loads are AC loads?
15:31.32clock_break the caps through, spark over the windings,...
15:31.39clock_no it's DC loads
15:31.46clock_I have a 6-way erctifier
15:32.01clock_ordinary PC doesn't take 3-phase power
15:32.11clock_maybe the future Windows Vista models will, but not the current ones :)
15:32.28claymoretrue, but wiring across two of the three lines yeilds single phase.
15:32.43sportyclaymore: loads whilst the bad food = varicosis
15:32.48clock_yes and also yields a lot of problems for the generator
15:33.10clock_local winding overheat, decrease of efficiency, increase of vibrations, more problematic excitation...
15:33.11sportyclock_: i bet you know something about the motor-wheels
15:33.18clock_what is it?
15:33.39sportyclock_: engine in the rim, ancor in the axle
15:33.47clock_no I don't know
15:33.53sporty2x2 bikes
15:33.54claymorethere two options, that I can immediately see:  add a shunt winding to the generator
15:34.04clock_what is it?
15:34.32claymoreor make a VFD (Variable frequency drive) and just use it backwards.
15:35.07clock_VFD is too complicated
15:35.24clock_What I want is a thyristor that gets triggered when the voltage exceeds safe level and shorts the generator
15:35.25claymorewith an extremely variable prime mover on the generator, there is not all encompassing solution :/
15:35.50clock_The rotor demagnetizes until there is no current produced then the thyristor releases and the generator boots up again
15:36.06clock_The result will be a jerk - release of torque on the shaft - and voltage limitation
15:36.19clock_The reboot cycle will be covered by a large electrolyte
15:36.29clock_and it will give a force feedback that youre pedalling too fast :)
15:36.40claymorewell then, if you want low tech, just chain a bunch of zeiners in series with a high wattage resistor.  That will shunt the extra voltage and keep output V from going any higher, all the while maintaining power to the loads.
15:36.45clock_Also waste a bit energy by dumping the core magnetism, but I hope that won't be much
15:37.04clock_that's a what I did
15:37.11clock_with a 200W MOSFET on a massive heatsink
15:37.31clock_The problem is when you short the output spin the wheel fast then the generator is not braking at all
15:38.19clock_when you remove the short, the voltage builds up exponentially, braking the wheel suddenly and dumping all the joules into whatever you have there to consume the power
15:38.19clock_resulting in a meltdown
15:38.19clock_It's a resonant generator, a pwoerful beast ;-)
15:38.27clock_With a 60W motor I can dar 280W of output ;-)
15:38.30clock_dar -> draw
15:38.33claymore... I am not talking about using any form of transistor.  Just a bunch of Zenier Diodes in series with a high wattage Resistor.  No shorting involved at all.
15:38.45clock_zener diode can survive about 10W
15:39.12clock_And your setup will consume power even when the critical voltage is not reached. I don't want this at all
15:40.53sportyclaymore: do you have any electrical education
15:41.18claymoreeh?  um, no it won't.  chaining Zeners in series cumulatively adds the breakdown voltage.  Just put enough in to equal ~400V and the whole series won't conduct till then.
15:41.35clock_yes but then all the power will dissipate on the zener
15:41.36claymoresporty: yes, i spent 10 years in the US navy as a Nuclear Electrician.
15:41.37clock_zeners
15:41.46clock_I said 200W transistor was melted. You can't even get a 200W zener
15:42.09clock_it's a bit like compulsator ;-)
15:42.28claymoreNo, not all.  Thats why the Resistor is there in series with the Zeners... to limit the max amount of current flow through that branch.
15:42.32sportyclaymore: ok then. Because i shall know the same about the electric machines - and i only know some parts :(
15:42.46claymoreand I know where to get 50W Zeners at a decent price.
15:44.14claymoreSo you make a 'zener branch' with enough 50W Zeners to reach the desired voltage you want to preotect against and rate the resistor to limit it to 50W max.  Then you add multple branches in parallel to achieve the desired total Power Shunting you want
15:44.27clock_sure
15:44.29``Erik*readreadread*
15:44.35clock_but I think my thyristor solution is better
15:44.44clock_it will not dissipate any heat
15:44.56clock_all the heat will be dissipated in the asynchronous motor
15:45.02sporty``Erik: hello!
15:45.04clock_which has an integrated cooling fan ;-)
15:45.11sporty``Erik: i wanted to ask you
15:45.23clock_and I will get force feedback!
15:45.36claymorebut you described several phsyical shocks that the motor will recieve.... that will destroy the bearings quickly
15:45.37``Eriknotes that humans are biologically constructed to be omnivores and need variety to be healthy... modern western diet is far too rich in meats and too lean in vegetables/fruits, but going vegan/vegetarian is also (typically) an unhealthy extreme, just the pendulum swinging too far back
15:46.22clock_it will just stop braking and start again
15:46.43``Erikalso notes that recent theory asserts that by cooking food, hominids were able to free up large energy dumps of metabolizing raw food which went to the expansion of the brain O.o
15:46.50sporty``Erik: is it a comon practic, that i'm in a time ceitnot - and plan to contribute to foss at the weekends? I have to take a solution these days.
15:47.12sportyi mean, how do you do it?
15:47.22``Erikhow do you do what? your query doesn't make sense
15:48.22sporty``Erik: do you work on brlcad at weekends or at the weekdays?
15:48.36claymoreIf you short the output of a generator and intentionally cause an over current condition, both speed and voltage will naturally droop, causing the voltage to drop below the thyristor's set point... and it will turn off, removing the short... which will cause speed and voltage to jump up again... and the cycle repeats.  very very quickly causing many many micro shocks to the generators rotor.... this eats the bearings alive.
15:48.45``Erikusually weekdays, occasionally weekends (far less oftne on weekends these days, too busy playing video games or working on my house)
15:49.17claymoreexactly why all big generators have overvoltage limiters that shunt output rather than short it and overspeed trips on the prime mover.
15:49.29sporty``Erik: ok, i wante dto hear these words! Tell something else! ;)
15:51.59claymorethe *ideal* solution is to have the VR control the rotor field in the generator, but since its self excited, thats not possible.  The best one could achieve is by using a shunt field to suppress the rotor field :/  even that would be hard since I bet this bugger is small.
15:52.07sporty``Erik: have you played GTA IV?
15:52.32clock_Actually the dissipated energy will come from the charged excitation capacitors that will be discharged
15:52.54clock_through some resistors that will prevent internal damage to the capacitor and triac, but still be low enough to reliably de-excite the generator
15:54.02claymoreyou could add a resistor across the exitation cap leads... make a continual discharge on them to cause them to achieve a lower steady state volt charge....
15:54.16clock_decreaes efficiency
15:54.33claymoremore effiecient that a trashed bearing :)
15:54.41clock_I don't believe any trashed bearing
15:55.07``Erikit's not trashed! it's resting!
15:55.24``Eriksporty: no, world of dorkcraft
15:55.29clock_there is no reason for the bearing to trash
15:55.54claymorei have seen what rapid voltage/speed hunting does to bearings.  not pretty.
15:56.02claymorebut its your generator :)
15:56.58sporty``Erik: world of enru
15:57.06``ErikIt's not pinin,' it's passed on! This bearing is no more! It has ceased to be! It's expired and gone to meet its maker! This is a late bearing! It's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace!
15:57.08``ErikIf you hadn't nailed him to the perch he would be pushing up the daisies! Its metabolical processes are of interest only to historians! It's hopped the twig! It's shuffled off this mortal coil! It's run down the curtain and joined the choir invisible! This.... is an EX-BEARING!
15:57.42claymorewe lost a cap in the feedback circuit of the ACVR for an emergency generator once.  Took a while to figure out why the large Turbine Generator that was in parallel with it was hunting so badly.
15:58.06clock_what is ACVR?
15:58.31clock_1) this is not going to hunt, 2) this is not a Large Turbine Generator
15:58.36clock_This is a Small Bicycle Generator
15:59.00clock_Is fun when you spin fast and then remove a short on the output how the generator audibly skids on the tyre :)
15:59.09claymoreOnce we did figure it out (ala 8 minutes) we pulled the emergency generator off the bus and did an inspection.  Rotor was burned from the hunting and we lost 5 mils of babbat in the bearing.  had to replace all 4 bearings on the machine (each one is the size of a small car tire :/)
15:59.29clock_what's babbat?
15:59.48claymoresoft material (usually metal) inside a bearing
16:00.04clock_was it a sleeve bearing?
16:00.23sportyclaymore: the bearing of the glidness?
16:00.33clock_Use Bones Swiss Pro Bearings they are made for skateboards they must survive some shocks ;-)
16:00.33``Erikbabbat or babbitt?
16:00.39clock_charles babbage?
16:00.47clock_maybe was it cabbage? cabbage bearing?
16:00.49claymoreACVR = AC Voltage Regulator. There was a DC and an AC side to the Motor Generator
16:00.55sportysliding bearing?
16:01.00sportybabbit
16:01.05claymorebabbitt perhaps.  cant remember how its spelled lol.
16:01.11clock_rabbit?
16:01.19claymoreand it was ball bearing.
16:01.29``Erikhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babbitt_metal
16:01.31sportyBo Babbit, britain goal-keeper 1878-1937
16:01.37clock_you should have used cube bearing
16:01.54clock_or dodecahedron bearing.
16:01.54claymore'its not going to hunt' ?  But you described to me, earlier, how you expect it to do just that.... *confused*
16:01.59sportyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BoBabbit
16:02.02clock_they don't run so smoothly but are more mathematically interesting
16:02.09claymorelol
16:02.36``ErikI d'no, circles and spheres have all sorts of fun trig things, and irrational numbers, and stuff
16:04.07claymore``Erik likes irrational things, from what i can tell.
16:04.24``Erikyou talkin' about punker, boy? O.o
16:04.36claymoreyou are Punker's boy... not me.
16:04.45clock_1they say plain bearings you say ball
16:04.58claymorewho says plain?
16:05.03clock_wikipedofilia
16:05.36sportyclock_: wikipedofilia lol it's too conform i guess though
16:05.36``Erikball refers to the runner, not the housing
16:05.54sportyBall bearings
16:06.20claymoreand there is babbitt on the inner and outer races of a ball bearing, depending on if you are talking about journal or thrust bearings.
16:06.25sportybearings of sliding
16:06.35clock_I always thought it's hardened steel
16:06.56claymoreSome, more rigid, brearings probably are all steel.
16:07.01sportyclock_: it is hardened stil, right
16:07.24clock_imagines a skater complaining about losing 5mils of babbit in his machine
16:07.47claymoreThere are tons of bearing types.  We had ones with babbitt.
16:08.33``Erikprobably result in the wheel vibrating, so the bearing would be tossed and replaced without looking into why O.o :D
16:08.38sportyi think due to soft radial load
16:08.43claymoreheh, well the tolerances between rotor and stator in this machine stated that 11+ mils of babbitt loss would result in rotor desctruction.
16:08.56sportydue to soft radial load
16:09.05clock_what is soft radial load?
16:09.21sportyon the rotor
16:09.26clock_and hard radial load?
16:09.27claymoredirection that the rotor is applying force to the bearing.
16:09.34sportyor bearings' still would be hardened
16:11.06claymoreradial loads tend to push out, or down due to gravity... so journal (radial) bearings would be appropriate.  rotor loads like that of a larger Generator would yeild thrust on the shaft pushing it the direction of the prime mover, or away from it.  Thrust bearings are appropriate for this load type.
16:11.20claymorebut since both conditions normally exists, you need both.
16:11.59claymoreand that is really the extent of my bearing knowledge lol
16:13.14claymore``Erik: you in today ?
16:15.15*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14DB9C.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:18.00``Erikyup
16:29.44brlcadclaymore: gah .. socketcc is not compatible with our licensing
16:30.45sportybrlcad: can i get 7.12 source for 32 bit  ?? (i686)
16:30.49claymoresaw that.  i am really looking at it for the style of implementation.
16:30.54brlcadthey don't allow modified derivative redistributions, that's makes it incompatible
16:30.54sportyand brlcad - hello!
16:31.29sportyclaymore: by the way, do you know other languages?
16:31.51brlcadsporty: sources are not platform-specific
16:33.00sportybrlcad: ...and compiler can rule this problem, right?
16:34.03brlcadclaymore: not sure what you mean by style of implementation, but that basically means it cannot be used (at all, in any way, even as a reference, especially in the repository) without a relicense from the copyright holder
16:37.29claymoreso you are basicly saying that I can't even look at the socketcc code because any code I write that even slightly resembles the socketcc code is a copyright infringement?
16:37.58brlcadpretty much
16:38.04brlcadthat's the nature of a derivative work
16:38.14claymoreHrm, well then I am tainted and can no longer work on the project.
16:38.36brlcadputs the code you write (the socketcc *mods*) at risk
16:38.56brlcadnot the usages of the library
16:40.44claymoreI do not plan on modifying any of the base code.  never did.  I plan on writing something similar from the ground up, but i needed a reference or two to see 'how they did it'
16:41.26claymoreif I did descide to use the libraries, I would extend it via inheritance, leaving the copyrighted code intact.
16:41.36claymoreman my engrish is horrid :/
16:43.05brlcadseeing "how they did it" would arguably be a derivative (as you are basing your implementation off theirs obviously) even if you write it from scratch -- that's where those "clean room rewrite" stories come from for developing drivers from proprietary sources
16:44.09brlcadthat would be a valid "use" to just use them and extend via inheritance, but that is still lgpl incompatible for *our* distribution purposes
16:44.26*** join/#brlcad thebishop (n=thebisho@67-134-234-189.dia.static.qwest.net)
16:44.46thebishopis the new GUI in svn?
16:44.49brlcadit's usually best to try and get them to relicense under the LGPL or BSD license, or to avoid them entirely
16:45.01claymoreSo basically, I have to erase all references to those libraries and forget I ever saw them eh?
16:45.04brlcadthebishop: it's a "pre-alpha" prototype, but yes
16:45.11brlcadit's in the "rt^3" module
16:45.21thebishopbrlcad, any screenshots?
16:45.22brlcadclaymore: or contact the copyright holder
16:45.27brlcadthebishop: yes
16:45.40brlcadwhat's the interest?
16:46.22brlcadif you're looking to actually use it -- it's not ready for any use whatsoever, it's not ready for even kicking the tires
16:46.48brlcadit's only for developers at this point, emphasis on the pre-alpha, and emphasis on prototype
16:50.19claymorebrlcad: how is lgpl not compatible with us?  brl-cad proper has lgpl components, doesn't it?
16:52.59brlcadhm?
16:53.01brlcadwe are LGPL
16:53.36brlcadwe cannot bundle them because we are (predominantly) LGPL
16:53.43claymore....so what did you mean by the statmement: ' but that is still lgpl incompatible for *our* distribution purposes'
16:54.02claymorei don't get it.
16:54.57sportywill share some mad-mad things soon
16:55.04sportyand weird, too
16:55.14sportybut not these days
16:55.20brlcadthat clause in their source makes it incompatible with our source licensing -- basically it puts the sources in conflicting terms
16:56.39claymorethe 'modified code cannot be redistributed' clause?
16:57.11brlcadyou can't mix n' match licenses -- the terms have to be compatible for a distribution as a combined work, or you have to add explicit exemptions (which is a pita to maintain)
16:57.42claymoresighs.
16:57.52claymoreso much for making *that* deadline :/
16:57.56brlcadI just sent the guy a message
16:58.11claymoreoooooh, i was just about to do the same.
16:58.19claymoreguess I will hold off a bit then.
16:58.31claymoredid you just ask him if we can have it under lgpl?
16:59.47brlcadfeel free to send him a message too, tag teaming requests can often help ;)
17:04.08claymoreis really tired. Youngest kept me up most of the night. My apologies I am coming off as grumpy.
17:04.41sportyclaymore: wake up!
17:04.46sportyit's morning!
17:04.50claymoreOh I am awake.
17:04.57sportyok then
17:05.03claymoreIn fact, I didn't go to sleep today ;)
17:05.21claymoregot about 2 hrs down yesterday, just before midnight :D
17:05.51sportyclaymore: mrs.claymore?
17:05.57sporty:)
17:06.34sporty:-D
17:06.38claymorethat was before the 2 hours sleep.  the rest of this morning was spent with my youngest (who is only 2) and the fact he didnt wanna sleep.
17:07.32sportyah! if you would offer him veggies, he would sleep and imagine mrs.youngest :-D
17:08.03claymoregood god man.  Veggies wont solve the world's problems.
17:08.32sportyclaymore: i think i will have two gorls, then boy - becasue i like ladies too much to give a born to the men
17:08.46sportyclaymore: ok
17:09.00claymoreheh, you act as if you have control over gender :)
17:09.08claymorelaughs a knowing laugh.
17:09.34sportyclaymore: true
17:10.26sportyi mean it will have happened: i'm overtake the wife,or wait, no, whatever she imagines she likes
17:11.35claymoreWell, once you have a pair of little feet running around the house, you won't be so quick to whip out veggies to try to solve a case of the 'I'm not Tireds' :D
17:12.33claymoreIn fact, you just might be tempted to get the little bugger flying high on sugar so that when they crash you will get come peace and quiet.
17:12.37sportyclaymore: not agree again, because you tell "common sence" while i'm about an experience
17:12.51claymoreeh... what?
17:13.24sportyfor me, most of the things i said is true - didn't want to emphasize it
17:14.22sportyah! going to eat the cabbage!
17:14.36claymoreYes, you do that!  Show that cabbage who's boss.
17:14.56sportyclaymore: ha   -   ha ...
17:15.07claymore:D
17:15.17sporty:'(
17:16.04claymoreWhy the long face ?
17:16.12sportythere're no bad or too god things in a raw vegan world. only relations between genders
17:16.20sportylike an animals!
17:16.37sportyj/k
17:17.58claymorespeaking of animals... I'm hungry :D  j/k
17:18.49brlcadclaymore: alcohol works well ;)
17:19.25claymorewell seeing as alcohol is a poison and thats even *worse* than meat... i can't see how you would drink any!
17:19.35claymorebut i don't drink at all, and never have.
17:19.42sportyspeaking of hungry... raw vegan choice!
17:19.44sportywhy do you have a time for chat? I don't have, usually =-O
17:20.10brlcadused to dip my pacifier in wine to knock me out in germany
17:20.16sportyclaymore: what? you don't drink at all?
17:20.20brlcad(like once..) :)
17:20.24claymorelol
17:20.34claymore'splains some things  :D
17:20.38brlcadprobably
17:20.50brlcadsporty: he's got good reasons
17:20.58brlcadto each their own
17:21.58brlcadguesses the fedex guy isn't coming
17:22.06claymoresporty: nope.  There is no point imho.  My take is that if you don't know how to have fun w/o it, then you don't really know how to have fun!
17:22.13sportyi have drinked less than 20 galnos beer in all my life, less than 5 gallon of wine, too
17:22.46sportyi have fun when things i'm in just like when i was 13
17:23.27sportyi mean this non-extremal safe flatland, long-hauls and so on
17:24.18claymoreis fedex guy bringing TV awesomeness?
17:24.19brlcadI don't know that I've ever drank to have fun -- it's like variety in food, I enjoy the variety of pallate in some drinks
17:24.24brlcadno, that's tomorrow
17:24.34claymoreoh thats right... its only Wed.
17:24.35brlcadthere was some cable foo that came yesterday
17:25.06claymoredid he bring the 'self install kit' ?
17:25.17claymore:D
17:25.21brlcadyeah, that was last week -- ups left it at the door
17:25.49brlcadtook a bit to find the socketcc guy .. that e-mail is dead
17:25.53brlcadhe's moved
17:25.57brlcadfound him, though, resent
17:26.16claymoreso he was a student?
17:26.23sportybrlcad: are there a snow where you live?
17:26.25brlcadassistant professor or somesuch
17:26.31brlcadsporty: sometimes
17:26.39sportyok
17:26.54brlcadnot really cold enough today though, that's for sure
17:26.55sportylikes snow as he likes the nature
17:27.00brlcad~weather kbwi
17:27.24claymoreibot doesn't like me... he won't talk to me.
17:27.38brlcad~weather kbwi
17:27.40brlcadoops
17:27.43brlcad~weather kapg
17:27.53sportybrlcad: how can i get a temp for special place of the world? I know coordinates
17:28.08brlcadsporty: hold a thermometer outside
17:28.16brlcadat those coordinates
17:28.23sportybrlcad: it's too simple
17:28.26claymorechuckles.
17:28.35brlcadthen try holding it while on a unicycle
17:28.40claymoreits 60 out?  nice :)
17:28.54brlcadthat's probably old, might be warmer
17:29.06brlcadkapg sometimes doesn't update very frequently
17:29.19brlcadmight have been a couple hours ago
17:29.36archivist~weather egnx
17:29.43claymore63 according to www.weather.wrong.
17:29.49brlcadsporty: you'd have to know a weather station code
17:30.11archivistairport codes
17:30.12sportyok
17:30.23brlcadairports usually have a weather station, so they're pretty convenient ;)
17:30.28sportyok, we have one
17:30.53claymorearchivist: whereabouts in the UK? (if you dont mind me askin)
17:30.54archivistI have implemented that function in my bot as well
17:31.01brlcadthere are sites around the web, you can find the nearest
17:31.18archivisteast midlands near burton on trent
17:31.51sportybrlcad: but it is not so "cheap&angry" as we say
17:32.15brlcadclaymore: as an alternative, since it's probably a 25/75 that he'll consider relicensing, I'd suggest just working with boost threads
17:32.24archivistclaymore,  local town is Swadlincote where I work
17:32.48brlcadhears a truck outside, goes to check
17:32.56claymorearchivist: Derbyshire ?
17:32.59archivistyes
17:33.52brlcaddamn .. ups, not fedex
17:34.05claymoreI think i have been through (or near) that area on a train a few years back.  Pretty country :)
17:34.24claymoregets excited whenever UPS Clause brings me something.
17:35.14brlcadknows the feeling
17:36.30brlcadawww.. it needs to charge up first :(
17:36.42claymorecell phone?
17:36.49brlcadroomba
17:36.55claymoresweet!
17:37.02claymoreI always wanted to get one of those.
17:37.03brlcadyeah, I finally caved in
17:37.30claymore'course, i want to make the Lawnba, but I think it just might be too dangerous.
17:37.42brlcadespecially with this big open area hardwood floors I have, I think it'll do good here
17:38.00brlcadjason and I have actually talked at *length* about such a device
17:38.06brlcadif I had a yard, I'd be working on that
17:38.12brlcadI hate mowing
17:38.34sportycan someone tell me about gps?
17:38.41brlcadyou can actually get them now .. but they're a bit pricey
17:38.52brlcadsporty: yes, someone probably can
17:39.05sportyi want a cheap GPS. (no display) Will it have a compass inside?
17:39.18claymoredid you see the article about the MIT guys (I think) that hooked a Roomba up to bluetooth, wired the controls through a cell phone and played 'frogger' on a busy downtown Boston street?
17:39.23sportyshall i pay regulary for satellites' use?
17:39.24brlcadsporty: http://tinyurl.com/644cnm
17:39.46sportywhat is it?
17:39.55sportycinnamon?
17:40.09sportycnm... well, my http is locked
17:40.10brlcadclaymore: hah, no I hadn't seen that
17:40.29claymorewell, long story short, i lol'ed.
17:40.53claymoregreat pictures of the event.  They lost btw.  *need to find that link*
17:41.34brlcadhttp://store.irobot.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2591901&cp=2600059.2591511&parentPage=family
17:43.13claymorehaha, i was way off.  It was Austin and a laptop:  http://news.cnet.com/2300-1041_3-6049976-1.html?tag=mncol
17:43.47claymorethink the powers that be would get mad if we had a Roomba at work?
17:43.51claymore:D
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17:45.27sportyWhat is "Roomba"?
17:46.14claymoreSemi-intelligent disk shaped robot/vaccum that automagically learns the layout of your house and vaccuums it for ya.
17:47.37sportyah! But i would use a wet patch for both, wood and carpets
17:48.10claymoreDunno if they have a WetDrymba....
17:48.35sportyclaymore: i mean AI will kill us all
17:48.56sportyarttificial intelligence as e.g. homekeepers
17:49.11sportyandroids and other  sheet
17:50.10claymoretrue AI will never happen, its much like a paradox.  But it makes for great Scifi movies!
17:50.56sportyai on perl will be able - and we will have to fight with it. only robust will have survived.
17:52.31brlcadthey call it the "scooba"
17:52.40sportywhat?
17:52.49brlcadthe mop version
17:53.23sportyit will have understood all the terms as young kids do, and make a solution, main solution
17:53.25claymorehahaha
17:53.49claymoreGutterCleaningBot.
17:54.08sportyha-ha
17:54.12*** join/#brlcad Bman (n=erik@ftp.brlcad.org)
17:55.46claymorebrlcad: do you happen to know how much of the boost libraries are already in the rt^3 and/or brlcad modules?
17:56.28brlcadquite a bit
17:57.11brlcadnone in rt^3 at the moment, but that is easily remedied
17:57.41brlcadthere's a tool that will extract exactly what is needed for redistribution based on use, though
17:57.58brlcadso you don't really have to worry about it -- you just write your code and it'll figure out the subset
17:58.07claymoreHows that work?  I am puttering around the boost site.
17:58.29brlcadi.e. you'd install all of boost on your system, and then just start using it
17:58.54brlcadthen there's a tool in boost that will extract the portions of boost you're using when it comes time to make a distribution
17:59.33claymore... so the whole boost library resides in the svn repository?  Only portions are used when compile time comes?
18:00.21Bmanboosts exists on the system, you run a program that parses your source and copies the minimal subset of boost into your directory, that gets added to svn
18:00.47brlcadright, only a subset goes into svn
18:01.08brlcadbut you don't know which subset you need until you actually use it, so you install the full thing on your system
18:02.19claymorecool.  Would you reccommend snaging one of the distros or getting the latest from their svn?
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18:15.03brlcadprobably snagging a distro
18:16.30brlcadsvn could be unstable, in a state of flux, etc -- should know the project or have a need before jumping that route
18:17.11sportybrlcad: so can i write complicate dformulae in emacs by means fo elisp?
18:17.15sportyclaymore: ?
18:17.25brlcadsure
18:17.55sportybrlcad: you mean even integrals and so on - to solve and to print?
18:18.10sportycan i print it just like i'm drafting it?
18:19.26brlcadit's a full lisp environment, so you can write code to do just about anything
18:20.23sportybrlcad: but will it "paint integrals as e.g. latex" ?? Is LaTex the same, or it differs?
18:21.09brlcadyour question doesn't make sense to me
18:22.39sportyLaTex and Emacs - the same?
18:26.27brlcadum, no
18:27.10sportybrlcad: is it true LaTex can write anything i want as e.g. diploma with formulas?
18:27.14brlcadone is a document preparation system, the other is a extensible, customizable, self- documenting real-time display editor
18:27.23sportyand can Emacs write formulas to paper?
18:27.44``Erikemacs writes ascii files to disk O.o (gross simplification, but...)
18:27.59sportybrlcad: can i say "I'm using Emacs instead of MathCAD"
18:28.00``Eriksame as vim, pic, or notepad.exe
18:28.29brlcadsporty: your understanding really is bizarre. your questions make no sense.
18:28.37sporty``Erik: what program shall i use to write formulas - instead of MS Word (full) for my diploma?
18:28.42brlcadyou can say whatever you want
18:29.08brlcadif you're wanting to render formulas, latex is good for that
18:29.09sportybrlcad: seriuosly, can i use emacs instead of mathcad?
18:29.25brlcadseriously, that question makes no sense
18:29.32``Erika lot of people use emacs (or lisp) to write the LaTeX file, then use teTeX or LaTeX or whatever to compile the control file into a pdf
18:29.41``Eriker
18:29.42``Erikor vim
18:29.43sportyok!
18:29.47``Erikemacs (or vim)
18:29.55brlcadit's like saying "can i eat peanuts instead of doing jumping jacks"
18:30.07``Erikmmm peanut jumping jacks
18:30.14brlcadthe two have nothing to do with each other
18:30.18sporty``Erik: i just has no chance to download latex... too big traffic
18:30.36brlcadthen you probably have no chance to download emacs either
18:30.38brlcadit's big
18:30.40sportybrlcad: ok, just too new for too much information
18:30.58brlcadyou seriously need a better internet connection so you can stfw
18:31.11``Erikiirc, there are services online where you can select a bunch of files you'd like, then they mail you a cd burnt with that stuff (for a fee)
18:31.15brlcadand educate yourself better without being constrained per bit
18:31.31``Erikor if you buy a linux or bsd distro, they mail you the cd's and have all this stuff on them
18:31.36sportybrlcad: i have emacs from cd , but i could download it if i want
18:32.02brlcadif you could download it, then you should be able to browse a f'ing wikipedia page
18:32.33sporty``Erik: it's ok... after a month, i'm ending the education - will translate brlcad better
18:32.52brlcadhttp://www.osbr.ca/ojs/index.php/osbr/article/view/800/771  <-- notes the intro paragraph familiarity :)
18:33.51sportyok, turning on terminal, java, browser, ready, set, go, !!
18:38.27CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33335 10/rt^3/trunk/autogen.sh: set exec bit
18:42.11sportybrlcad: by the way, few weeks ago i didn't know a way how-to configure, make and make install! Is there anything like "Users' artworks" on the site - so as i can, well, see this: http://www.naturalstuff.110mb.com/ (the bottom)
18:42.43sportyi mean, i didn't know even about the irc... Well, i was a windows user...
18:43.10sportycan users create pages under wiki ??
18:43.40sporty*Installation of BRL-CAD 7.10.2 in Ubuntu 8.04*
18:44.16brlcadlooks
18:44.32brlcadsporty: yes, you can create new wiki pages just like on wikipedia
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18:44.36brlcadit's a full open wiki
18:44.51sportybrlcad: later
18:44.53brlcadincluding translation pages, just don't know if there are any examples to start with
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18:45.24brlcadyou can't edit the drupal pages without having a permission bit set, but there's only a couple drupal pages
18:45.52*** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
18:46.00sportywhen i will have re-installed the system - i will enlarge this tutorial - and then it will have a decent look
18:46.14brlcadsporty: "mged -n" is changed to "mged -c"
18:46.18brlcad-n is going away
18:46.35sportybrlcad: i'm still at 7.10
18:46.43brlcadsporty: so?
18:46.48sportyoh my!
18:47.33sportybrlcad: and later i will have a short tutorial under the header "Users write: installation ...7.10 in U 8.04"
18:48.41sportybrlcad: i will delete rhese pages and files from my pc - i want to publish it soon
18:49.21sportymy site is awful. I'm still creating those examples it was created for.
18:51.29sportyso i'm using mged -n cup.g
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18:53.41sportyhttp://ribbonsoft.com/camexpert_doc.html (bottom) closes up my education as a translator. I will take some rest from this all - then will skate and type as fast as i can!
18:57.29sportywhat is an international word for "distrib" ?? i know it must have less than 7 characters
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19:07.24sportyoff-line again?
19:18.33brlcadsporty: all i'm saying is you should change the -n to a -c and it'll work on both the old and the newer versions of mged
19:20.14brlcadotherwise that documentation will quickly be out-dated
19:21.08brlcaddistrib is distribution so share or give or publish, etc
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19:48.53*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@91.102.231.33)
19:49.18csanyipalHi, is anybody here?
19:50.20csanyipalI want to ask about the tutorial: "Introduction_to_MGED.pdf", Lesson 3
19:52.11csanyipalI have installed BRL-CAD 7.14.1
19:52.49csanyipalWhen I create shapes sph1.s & rcc1.s then I get a big shapes.
19:53.10csanyipalI created these shapes with make command.
19:53.42csanyipalBut when I create after that with in command the other sph2.s  rcc2.s shapes,
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19:54.18csanyipalthese new shapes appeare in the Graphics Window so small that I can't even see it!
19:54.43``Erikyou're probably making them... tiny... :) try doing like "l sph1.s" to get an idea of the scale those are at
19:54.50brlcadcsanyipal: run "autoview"
19:54.51csanyipalI must Zoom in to see it!
19:54.56csanyipalok
19:55.07brlcadthe 'in' command will not rezoom if you make something new
19:55.24brlcadthe 'make' command creates objects that are relative to the size of the view
19:55.35brlcad'in' uses absolute values
19:55.46csanyipalok
19:55.50``Erik"autoview" might be useful
19:57.00csanyipalnow when I used autoview nothing happens. Must I use autoview before command make & in?
19:57.02``Erikbrlcad: preparing the crib for the new babies you get tomorrow? O.o
19:57.27``Erikautoview just tries to resize the view to fit everything that's currently being displaye
19:57.37csanyipalok
19:58.59Ralithdefining a primitive with attributes which are relative to those of another primitive is parametrics, right?
19:59.48csanyipalI try to make a new tutorila for my pupils, and I translate the tutorial abowe mentioned to Hungarian.
20:02.53brlcad``Erik: actually already prepped :)
20:03.01brlcadwas waiting for a package to arrive
20:03.51``Erikwell, dmanit, stop that, when you don't answer your phone, I'm #2 on their list for question answering O.o :D
20:04.13csanyipalMy problem is that that the difference between shapes maked with make command and shapes maked with in command is so big that even with command autoview I can't see the shapes maked with in command.
20:05.02brlcadRalith: yes
20:05.21``Erikif you 'l' the shape you used make on, it should give you an idea of what scale to use with your 'in' command
20:05.38RalithSupport for that's not too far along, right? Anywhere I can check to see status?
20:05.39``Erikif make generates a 1m diameter sphere, then yeah, anything you make 1mm across is going to look tiny
20:05.39csanyipalok
20:06.26brlcadRalith: you can ask dawn on the mailing list, and/or check out src/libpc
20:06.39brlcaddawn doesn't make it onto irc very often, uses the mailing list
20:07.03brlcadcsanyipal: that's because you're still showing big and small objects
20:07.24csanyipalok I figure this out
20:07.38brlcadcsanyipal: run "who" to see what objects are being drawn, you can "erase objectname" to erase it
20:08.17brlcad"e object" and "d object" are the same as "draw object" and "erase object"
20:08.29csanyipalthanks
20:08.55brlcadironically, the letters reverse for the short-hand as they originally stood for "edit" and "delete", but those terms were misleading
20:09.01``Erikheh, e for draw and d for erase
20:09.48brlcaddon't think I even realized that little irony until I wrote it there either :)
20:10.20csanyipalso the make command make allways a 1 meter diameter sphere?
20:10.43brlcadno, the make command makes an object relative to your view size
20:10.55csanyipalok, sorry, I forgat that
20:10.59``Erikat the bottom of te window is a bunch of text, 'sz' is the view size
20:11.09``Erikmake uses that value in its computation
20:11.38csanyipalso I must mayhep to use the size command first
20:11.39brlcadtry this:  make sph sph ; zoom .5 ; make sph2 sph ; zoom .5 ; make arb8 arb8 ; zoom .5
20:12.01``Erik(and I guess the default view's sphere is 1 meter radius, not diameter)
20:12.19csanyipalok diameter = 2 * radius
20:13.42csanyipalI want to say that that the tutorial is not so perfect..
20:15.21csanyipalso the pupils in a secondary school can't  to use it and to understand it when came to the Lesson 3..
20:17.30brlcadcsanyipal: which tutorial?
20:17.39brlcadthe mged tutorial on the website?
20:17.46brlcader, on brlcad.org?
20:18.14csanyipalyes, Introduction_to_MGED.pdf
20:18.26brlcadI can see how that'd be difficult for that age, they weren't the audience .. :)
20:18.36csanyipalpages 25, 26
20:18.49brlcadif you write a much simpler version, be glad to put it up on the site
20:18.54brlcadand write an article about it
20:19.02csanyipalok
20:19.09``Erikor convert it to docbook so we can snarf it into the repo and improve it :D
20:19.27brlcadit's been on the todo for a while to write a "quick introduction to brl-cad"
20:19.35brlcadsomething less than 10 pages tops
20:19.38csanyipalok
20:21.02csanyipalI'm a fraid about that that BRL-CAD can't to explain in less than 10 pages, however
20:22.23brlcada huge portion could be, enough to give an understanding of how things are done and how to get started
20:22.34csanyipalok
20:22.42brlcadmind you, 10 pages of text .. images could make that be a little or a lot more
20:22.46csanyipalI agree with that..
20:23.13csanyipalyes
20:24.08``Erikpheer the ultimate 'choose your own adventure' interactive BRL-CAD tutorial/cookbook O.o :D
20:24.51Ralithlol
20:25.47``Erik(only half joking... there're 3 bazillion things you can do with it, so there'll n ever be a good single tutorial or intro... :D )
20:26.21csanyipalok
20:27.45csanyipalNow I'm going to find out how can I make better the Lesson 3 so that this problem never happen: the difference between shapes created with make and with in commands.
20:29.27CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33336 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: ben's okay with it, include the name
20:30.11csanyipalthe difference is so big, I want to lower this difference
20:30.50Ralithit might be better to clarify why there is a difference
20:32.23csanyipalno because then still nobody can't see the shapes created with in command
20:33.01csanyipalthey are very small..
20:33.16csanyipallike a dot
20:33.21Ralithsize is completely relative
20:33.29Ralithit's only small if your view is set up that way
20:37.09Ralithcsanyipal: actually, you could probably solve the problem just be modifying lesson 3 to use larger sizes for the manually created shapes.
20:37.12brlcadcsanyipal: that's because you gave really small values relative to the view size
20:37.55brlcadyou can make 'in' match 'make'
20:38.44Ralithbrlcad: I just checked; at least here, following the instructions word-for-word, (including not erasing anything) makes you end up with a nearly-indiscernable sph2.s
20:38.59Ralithwhich is expected behavior and so on
20:39.10Ralithbut at the point of lesson 3, a user might not expect that or know what to do
20:39.44brlcadcsanyipal: think of the units you are using .. if you make something with the 'in' command that has values like 5.33 .. that's 5.33 millimeters (by default) .. if the view size is 2000, that's 2 meters ..
20:40.21brlcadso yeah, it'd be tiny
20:40.36Raliththe closest the guide comes to saying "this shape will be really tiny" is saying that the radius will be 3mm, without ever having described the size of the 'make'-created objects
20:40.46csanyipalI understand that
20:40.56brlcadmake doesn't care -- it just uses the size of the view no matter how big or small it is.. if your view is 10 km, it'll make a 10 km box if you make an arb8
20:42.45Ralithand the default view, at least on my setup, was large enough to produce this behavior.
20:47.06csanyipalNow I tried to size the view to 10 mm
20:48.42csanyipaland then the shapes created with make and in commands are wide apart very much
20:50.21csanyipalwhen I run autoview after
20:53.59csanyipalI run size after autoview and get the value of it: 2040
20:53.59brlcadautoview resizes to fit whatever is being drawn (the 'who' command to see what is drawn)
20:54.26brlcadthat means you have something drawn that is much bigger, you were just zoomed in
20:54.51csanyipalbut when I began with the make command the size was 10
20:54.53*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (n=erik@ftp.brlcad.org)
20:55.11CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33337 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/ (load.c load_MySQL.c slave.c): re-order headers
20:56.14csanyipalok, thanks, I must go now..
20:56.21Ralithseeya
20:56.23CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33338 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (adrt.h master/master.c): make extra-verbose announce opcode names as well as number
20:56.34*** part/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@91.102.231.33)
20:59.49CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33339 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkhtml3/Makefile.in: carry LDFLAGS
20:59.51*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14DB9C.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:09.51CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33340 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/ComboBox.tcl: Set the borderwidth to 1 for the frame and menubutton components.
21:13.08CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33341 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/RtControl.tcl: Added code to insure the "Advanced Settings" dialog pops up above the main rt control dialog.
21:25.48CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33342 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (expand.c ged_private.h importFg4Section.c put_comb.c red.c): carry const where possible
21:28.43CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33343 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/ged.h src/libged/Makefile.am src/libged/tire.c): Added Cliff's tire command to libged.
21:33.36CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33344 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/scale.c: add missing header
21:34.31brlcad``Erik: where is the memory free'd for ged_put_tree_into_comb()?
21:35.17CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33345 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Make use of libged's tire functionality.
21:44.34``Erikerm, right there *point*
21:44.48CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33346 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/put_comb.c: free the strdup'd memory
21:45.03``Eriksheesh, you think I'd forget something like that?
21:45.04``Erik:D
21:47.18CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33347 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/put_comb.c: verify the immutable string, not the unallocated string. Verify the duplication succeeded.
21:47.19``Erikis surprised brlcad keyed on a neglegible leak opposed to the show stopping bug
21:48.30brlcad``Erik: show-stoppers aren't a problem .. 'cause they sorta .. stop the show
21:48.49brlcadthe subtle ones tend to live forever :)
21:49.01brlcadand grow hair
21:49.04``Erikuntil someone stumbles across that function with valgrind
21:49.27``Erik<-- subtle like that O.o
21:49.48brlcadassuming they get through the other reports before it
21:50.20brlcadthere's a few in the report now that I didn't see an easy fix for
21:50.33brlcadsubtle leaks added a long time ago
21:51.07``Erikif they're not easy to get rid of, that code is a candidate for heavier reworking *shrug* :)
21:53.53``Eriktoo effin' hot in here, 77 in the office :/
21:56.48punkrockgirlits cold outside
21:56.52punkrockgirldoes the snowday dance
21:58.29CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33348 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): remove isst client
23:18.00CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33349 10/brlcad/trunk/autogen.sh:
23:18.00CIA-6BRL-CAD: merge in changes from Sebastian Pipping's git tree, commit
23:18.00CIA-6BRL-CAD: 7fd089f2a40099db7c30a6a340b330f29ec4d8cd (Resolve code duplication on equal
23:18.00CIA-6BRL-CAD: treatment of COPYING and INSTALL). refactors the backup handling into one loop
23:18.01CIA-6BRL-CAD: for both.
23:24.42*** join/#brlcad ``Erik_ (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
23:28.13brlcadis amazed that the lil bugger wandered semi-intelligently around the entire rooms for nearly an hour with all these boxes and junk everywhere yet still managed to find its way back to the docking station
23:41.05CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33350 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/put_comb.c: bu_strdup() to the rescue
23:42.19``Erik_shakes fist
23:42.42CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33351 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/put_comb.c: oop, use bu_free on all of the callers. get rid of the dead code too.
23:43.19``Erik_what about the strchr stuff imitating strtok? bu_strtok()?
23:45.23CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33352 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/put_comb.c: ws
23:45.24brlcaderm, they don't allocate memory do they?
23:45.42brlcadstrdup is in there because of the allocation guarantee
23:45.54brlcadtok just points into the str iirc
23:48.48``Erik_strtok sets the char to null, sets a ptr and returns a ptr I think? I don't remember
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081211

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081211

00:38.23mafmnight!
00:50.48CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33353 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/search.h: fix for osX.5
00:58.07``Erik_(has u_int in sys/types.h, but it wasn't being included *shrug* -> unsigned int was easy, hopefully not wrong)
01:21.52*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
01:34.41*** join/#brlcad rawer_ (n=ubuntu@217.8.236.161)
01:35.08brlcadlooked benign
01:37.52rawer_brlcad: what are my regails when i'm coming into the channel, those in bold text ?
01:38.16rawer_is it fun.fun.fun. - naturfood.net ??
01:38.31brlcadrawer_: que?
01:38.49brlcad~dict regails
01:39.13rawer_i meant what does it write
01:39.24rawer_does it shows my ip ?
01:39.27brlcadyep
01:39.35rawer_which one?
01:39.42brlcad20:39 -!- rawer_ [n=ubuntu@217.8.236.161] has joined #brlcad
01:39.54rawer_oh...
01:40.42brlcadwe do have cloaks that I could give out, but you'd still have to register to get one
01:41.00brlcadspeaking of such, if anyone wants a cloak, lemme know
01:41.13rawer_i don't need cloaks, i prefer some resilient as5
01:41.16brlcadtears a big ol' hole into one of his walls
01:50.10rawer_i will quit to re-install the system
01:51.11rawer_brlcad: so what happens when i upload archive to into the brl-cad's tracker?
01:51.28*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
01:51.40rawer_shall I save a link or something?
01:51.54rawer_to give it to another human...
01:55.40*** part/#brlcad rawer_ (n=ubuntu@217.8.236.161)
02:07.39brlcadRalith: you can put a link or upload it as an attachment
02:07.55brlcadyou could also upload it via anonymous ftp to brlcad.org/incoming
02:08.06Ralithyou probably meant rawer
02:08.07Ralithwho just left
02:08.10Ralith>_>
02:09.23brlcadoops, yep I did
02:09.34brlcadread s/left/joined/
02:10.04brlcadRalith: well then maybe you can't upload it as an attachment ;)
02:10.24Ralithperhaps not!
02:24.08CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33354 10/brlcad/trunk/autogen.sh:
02:24.08CIA-6BRL-CAD: merge in more changes from Sebastian Pipping's git tree, commit
02:24.08CIA-6BRL-CAD: fe2e3ecadce19faa426595da2572b090bd3769b9 (Add download code using wget or curl,
02:24.08CIA-6BRL-CAD: as available). made a few mods to make the download of config.guess optional
02:24.09CIA-6BRL-CAD: (and default to off for now) and toggleable based on a DOWNLOAD var.
02:27.52CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33355 10/brlcad/trunk/autogen.sh: add command-line -d|--download switches for turning DOWNLOAD on
02:41.20CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33356 10/brlcad/trunk/autogen.sh: apply Sebastian Pipping's 18a5403c34555594184b6d28c200cdefb778bfdd commit from his git tree (libtoolize detection added for config.guess download after autoreconf, add /me to authors) with a few minor mods.
02:50.39CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33357 10/brlcad/trunk/autogen.sh:
02:50.39CIA-6BRL-CAD: and the last change by sebastian pipping, from git commit
02:50.39CIA-6BRL-CAD: 320ee0c022636152b173ecd9b57a373fce02b1a4 (Separate availability check and actual
02:50.39CIA-6BRL-CAD: download, report versions, add support for fetch). includes a few (untested)
02:50.39CIA-6BRL-CAD: minor mods to push the actual download line to a one-liner.
05:05.56*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedyJR (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
06:12.25*** join/#brlcad ``Erik_ (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
07:46.40*** join/#brlcad Axman6_ (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
08:36.27*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch)
09:13.13*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
10:15.11*** join/#brlcad Ralith_ (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
10:53.17*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@172.Red-83-45-253.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
11:11.46mafmho ho ho
11:53.46mafmmeh, nobody likes my santa's-like greeting :P
12:00.44archivistchucks a snowball at mafm bah humbug
12:08.34mafm
12:10.03mafmchristmas spirit is dead :P
12:31.46claymoreMornin all!
12:32.06claymoreand no, Christmas Spirit is alive and well in my household.  
12:32.39claymoreThe REAL Christmas Spirit that is... not the commericialized, overbearing Santa style Chirstmas ;)
12:59.14*** join/#brlcad ``Erik_ (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
12:59.57claymorehai ``Erik_
13:08.14claymorekicks ``Erik_ 's cable modem. Behave!!!
13:08.53CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33358 10/rt^3/trunk/ (5 files in 5 dirs): removed pthreadcc and socketcc (perhaps temporarily) due to licensing. Plan to replace with boost::asio and boost::threads
13:14.46CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33359 10/rt^3/trunk/include/boost/ (198 files in 11 dirs): added boost::asio to include/ dir. 'Boost::Asio is a cross-platform C++ library for network and low-level I/O programming'
13:34.46claymoreheh, compile error message: "../../include/boost/optional.hpp:15:39: error: boost/optional/optional.hpp: No such file or directory" -looks like the optional file isn't optional. :D
13:35.01clock_hates boost
13:35.25clock_I don't know what it is but it's often required by C++ programs and renders them unable to compile
13:35.49claymoreboost is just a ginormous collection of libraries.
13:58.36*** join/#brlcad brlcad (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:58.46*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
13:58.54brlcadgrr.
13:59.57brlcadis getting unhappy with younder reliable isp of late being no longer reliable
14:06.20*** join/#brlcad geocalc (n=geocalc@lns-bzn-59-82-252-133-172.adsl.proxad.net)
14:06.41PrezKennedyJRbrlcad, who?
14:11.54brlcadsago
14:16.46brlcadwoo hoo, couch arrived!
14:17.10brlcadand my awesomeness bench made from old railroad ties
14:17.28brlcadtwo more deliveries to go!
14:17.49brlcadclock_: boost is only a pita if it's not managed properly, like any external dependency
14:18.20brlcadyou really do have to use their tool to determine what is used and what isn't, so you get everything (or simply include all of boost, but that's a cop-out and massive)
14:22.21CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33360 10/brlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Added the TireWizard.
14:35.50CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33361 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/tire.c: Removed leftover debug statement.
15:10.57PrezKennedyJRbrlcad, i heard about the couch
15:11.00*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
15:11.06PrezKennedyJRget my mom and dad to buy a new one already!
15:21.17``Erik_takes off his pants and dances around
15:35.52*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@unaffiliated/minuteelectron)
15:38.46*** join/#brlcad claymore (n=claymore@bz.bzflag.bz)
15:41.13claymoreoddness.
15:41.13``Erikand/or evenness
15:41.40claymoreis hungry.
15:47.48*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14FEBC.dip.t-dialin.net)
17:13.53*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
17:13.53*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.0 is now posted (20081108)
17:21.31brlcadclaymore: tv awesomeness is definitely > luncheon, but I'm still waiting
17:22.10brlcadthe furniture is in, though.. really love this recliner :)
17:23.22brlcadwas going to go to the luncheon if it arrived in time, but looks like that's a no-go
17:23.29brlcadthe window was 10-2
18:02.08mafmhmm guys, generic question about programming
18:02.30mafmin C/C++, the compiler optimizes i++ increments when not assigned?
18:02.38mafmor it does store the old value anyway?
18:03.04mafm(I know that it depends on the compiler and optimization level, but I mean in general and well known compilers)
18:04.35mafmthat would be important, performance/storage-wise, in for() loops in example
18:05.53elite01i bet most do, at least if i is a primitive type
18:06.05elite01i still prefer ++i since it matches the intention better
18:06.14elite01when in doubt, watch asm output
18:06.21elite01(--save-temps or so)
18:06.43*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
18:46.44*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-58-234-121.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:26.56*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016142244.customer.alfanett.no)
19:40.40mafmthanks elite01 (I read it before but forgot to say anything)
19:40.41CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33362 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/tirewizard/TireWizard.tcl: Indicate the units for various entries.
19:41.05mafmI think that the optimization only involves checking whether there's some use for the value to be returned
19:41.10mafmif not, the code is converted
19:41.55CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33363 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/tirewizard.tcl: Minor mod of an error message.
19:52.46``Erik*burp*
19:53.15claymorewow... just wow.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_submarine_K-429
20:01.57``Erikheh, the guy who tried to follow procedure and saved lives gets punished, the guy who fucked it all up got promoted O.o russia aint' so different from the us after all! :D
20:03.13claymoreI d'no.... the captain of a submarine forgetting to rig for dive?  Thats pretty bad and deserves a bit of punishment :/
20:03.49``Erikyeah, but ordering underway without trained crew, ordering immediate torpedo range without the regular post-drydock shakedown?
20:04.14claymoreoh yeah, thats pretty dumb to.  Not arguing that lol.
20:33.19*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@archlinux/trusteduser/louipc)
20:45.41*** join/#brlcad nixon-9 (n=sporty@217.8.236.127)
21:39.37nixon-9dinner time?
21:47.05brlcadsoon!
21:47.36nixon-9brlcad: heck the mail box
21:48.52nixon-9brlcad: give me a hint how to connect to windows from linux through the cable?
21:49.07nixon-90-modem cable, two computers
21:54.36``Erikgotta set up the, uh, tty
21:54.52``Eriklinux does that in, uhmmmmm, I think inittab?
21:54.56``Erikto a getty?
21:55.06``Erikthen use like 'minicom' or 'tip' on the other one
21:55.09``Eriktada!
21:55.15nixon-9``Erik: ok
21:55.37nixon-9ok, i will try it at a very first time
21:55.44``Erikknows how to do it on bsd or slowaris better
21:56.18nixon-9wants it to be the best experience ever!
22:08.38*** part/#brlcad nixon-9 (n=sporty@217.8.236.127)
22:12.15*** join/#brlcad ilya`` (n=sporty@217.8.236.127)
22:12.38*** part/#brlcad ilya`` (n=sporty@217.8.236.127)
22:13.41*** join/#brlcad i`lya (n=sporty@217.8.236.127)
22:13.53brlcadbest experience ever..
22:13.59brlcadthen what are you using windows for?
22:14.55i`lyai`lya: right, heh... marry moment for both computers and me
22:15.53i`lyabrlcad: it's not my pc, that with windows one... We have licensed windows at work, btw
22:16.17brlcadbeing licensed doesn't make the OS work any better
22:16.46i`lyathe more reachable the internet - the more they forcce citizens to buy licensed software. not for homes, but at least for firms
22:17.09i`lyabrlcad: but i can not say windows xp was unstable
22:18.10brlcadnobody is forced to buy anything
22:18.49i`lyabrlcad: without internet, in '97 - we had to use illegal software
22:19.19``Eriksurely you could've started punching in op codes and bootstrapping a home rolled OS
22:19.21brlcadyou along with millions of others, what's your point?
22:19.38brlcadand you didn't have to, there were other viable operating systems even back in '97
22:19.45``Erikor bought a copy of minix
22:19.55``Erikor linux, or fbsd, or netbsd, or obsd, or ...
22:20.16brlcadI think that's right about when I make linux my primary, actually
22:20.18louipclinux wasn't so great in 97
22:20.37``Erikdid it in '96
22:20.37``Eriklate '96, like octoberish
22:20.48``Erikfeb-oct with winderz, it was... too much to bear
22:20.52brlcadlouipc: neither was windows :)
22:21.07louipcwell my sound card worked at least :D
22:21.22i`lyabrlcad: linux + offline = linux on 5 cd, 3-hours installation, uh.... i played games to be true
22:22.36i`lyawho remembers 4X cd-roms? my is right here, close to me. Can plug it thru ide->usb to laptop
22:23.11``Erikheh, I had a 1x :D
22:23.39i`lyawhat a good time! Life was more simple!
22:23.47``Erikused to buy 120 minute audio cassettes because you could fit more data on them, even though they went bad sooner
22:23.57``Erikpheer my epeen
22:24.05*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-58-234-121.dclient.hispeed.ch)
22:24.34i`lya``Erik: they didn't went bad sooner!
22:24.45``Erikthey'd stretch and become unreadable
22:24.48i`lyathey rule
22:25.00i`lya``Erik: no
22:25.39``Erikat least the coleco adam decided they were crap *shrug* I was buying the red and silver ones, uh, 'tdk' I think?
22:25.45brlcadi`lya: plenty of linux distros were on just one disc
22:26.00``Erikin '97, many were on sets of floppies :)
22:26.04brlcadheck, even redhat only had two through most of the 90's
22:26.07i`lyabrlcad: but they need libraries from iternet
22:26.17brlcadno, full distributions
22:26.24brlcadI did plenty of offline installs
22:26.30i`lya``Erik: TDK, heh
22:27.49i`lyabrlcad: 5 cd - i have told it about modern distributions (know 8 cd)
22:28.16i`lyathose 3 cd i had contained more than one dvd with kubuntu
22:28.53``Erikhttp://www.freebsdmall.com/cgi-bin/fm/bsd7.0?id=yVw7ircA&mv_pc=24   booyeah
22:28.53brlcadi`lya: you're jumping from 90's to now
22:29.13brlcadi'm saying back then it was just a disc or two and you were fine
22:29.50i`lyabrlcad: but i could thnk about e.g. Need For Speed + wine + linux
22:30.10brlcadi.e. "without internet, in '97 - we had to use illegal software" is complete bull :)
22:30.33i`lyabrlcad: right, but there were only illegal windows - for newbies
22:30.59brlcadhuh?
22:31.08brlcadthere was linux
22:31.17brlcadthere was a bunch of other OS too
22:31.50``Erikinstalled linux from 14.4k modem
22:31.58i`lyabrlcad: right
22:32.19i`lyafeel guilty
22:32.51i`lyai pay 0.10-0.30 usd / mb
22:33.35``Eriksooo, back then y ou would've paid about a dollar for a functional linux download, hrm
22:34.14i`lya``Erik: ah, i mean right now - but in a past, internet was a dream!
22:36.24brlcadthat's what BBS were for
22:36.45``Erikbbs's were awesome
22:36.51i`lyabrlcad: i'm using it since '03
22:36.52brlcadI paid into a local BBS a couple bucks a month
22:37.28i`lyabrlcad: was it like phones just right at street?
22:37.42i`lyaWhat does it look like, that BBS?
22:37.44brlcad(from panama) and the BBS would dial up the USA once a week to relay into another BBS that had intermittent internet connectivity
22:38.35i`lyabrlcad: calm fun
22:38.41brlcadi`lya: it was on the computer, you'd dial into a bulletin board system -- text-only interface, apps, messages, games, mail
22:38.44i`lyaor dead disko
22:38.47``Erikremembers computer clubs, with boxes of 5.25" floppies sitting around with software and several machines with dual drives... people would bring a box of blanks and copy what they wanted
22:38.51``Eriknutty stuff
22:39.14brlcadyeah, I remember doing that :0
22:39.31``Erikodd social events :)
22:39.37brlcadone guy would buy something, then everyone had it
22:39.42i`lyasocial, right
22:42.48i`lyahow can i 'go back' in info files?
22:43.04i`lyais it e.g. Alt+Left Arrow?
22:43.15brlcad'p'?
22:43.27brlcad'p'revious
22:43.32i`lyaok
22:43.51brlcad't'op
22:44.20i`lyabrlcad: why do you know it?
22:44.49brlcadI don't, I just ran it and saw the menu :P
22:45.14brlcadit's a blend of emacs and vi behaviors
22:45.20i`lyawhoa!:-/
22:49.16i`lyabrlcad: i think you know french, could it be? try to say something.
22:50.23i`lyalike la femmé est l'amour (hope it means something :)
22:53.48i`lyabrlcad: what if i try to edit pages "program-info.info" in the package "program-info.tgz"? will the menu work after that? Or i will have to re-arrange links in TeTex ??
22:53.57brlcadje ne parle pas francais
22:54.00i`lyai meant info files
22:54.47brlcadi`lya: depends what edits you make
22:54.53i`lyabrlcad: i read they grammar right now (this month) in attempt to know this language
22:55.13i`lyabrlcad: adding/deleting random lines and letters
22:55.50brlcadwhy would you do that?
22:56.00brlcadactually, I don't want to know
22:56.06brlcadno, I doubt that will work
22:56.09i`lyabrlcad: i'm a bad, bad man
22:56.30i`lyabrlcad: i doubt, too - and will not even try it
23:00.18i`lya.info files are nicely arranged for learning something. Most of modern sources offer too big amount of information at once - we all will have big heads soon (will mutate towards virtual entities)
23:58.50i`lyabrlcad: what time?
23:59.02``Erikparty time!
23:59.07``Eriktakes off his pants and dances
23:59.15i`lyaibot: time
23:59.16ibotYou cannot understand nature's perfect time cube! (2008.12.11 23:59:16 GMT)
23:59.24mafmnight
23:59.54i`lya``Erik: don't get a flu, put on your pants
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081212

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081212

00:00.11``ErikThu Dec 11 19:00:05 EST 2008
00:00.40i`lyaibot: are you at GMT 0 ??
00:01.17louipcibot is a bot
00:01.27i`lyaok, i need to quit
00:04.46*** join/#brlcad i`lya (n=sporty@217.8.236.149)
00:05.01i`lyaibot: time
00:05.02ibotYou cannot understand nature's perfect time cube! (2008.12.12  0:05:02 GMT)
00:06.47i`lyahas found an elegant way to get NTP support from ibot
00:08.46``Erikwhy not just
00:08.49``Eriky'know
00:08.50``Erikuse ntp
00:11.56i`lya``Erik: i fear NTP
00:12.13``Erikwhy?
00:13.06i`lya``Erik: "N" makes you back hurt, "T" will stay above your grave, "P" - is another dangerous letter.
00:13.13i`lya*your
00:13.42``Erikso what's the poison tonight, vodka or crack? O.o
00:15.54i`lya``Erik: science! want to finish some projects. Dreaming about a smoothie: banana+frozen water + some sugar to boost my mind
00:27.56punkrockgirlwhy is erik taking off his pants and running around the room?
00:28.14``Erikcuz I'm EFFIN' AWESOME, YO
00:28.25punkrockgirloh yeah
00:39.21i`lyaoh yeah, punkrockgirl!
00:41.53i`lyathis day i'm finishing all except some program-like stuff and brl-cad works. "I want to be free - and I am free."
00:43.20i`lyaBut real freedom goes thru devotion to less complicated, less complete more simple - i mean e.g. raw vegan food style when i like to cycle 100 km under the rain! yeah! groovie, baby!
00:43.57i`lya*more complete*
01:13.15i`lyabtw, can use jove (in attempt to use elisp) for formulas?
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01:35.56louipcjove is very minimal. I don't think it has lisp
01:39.39i`lyalouipc: ok
01:52.46i`lyayou have an evening of yesterday
01:52.52i`lyaha-ha
02:42.56``Erikamusing, considering the original lisp (iirc) existed on an ibm 704 with something like 4k words of memory O.o
02:43.32``Erikword was 36 bits?
02:43.37``Erik*think*
03:04.48*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
03:04.48*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.0 is now posted (20081108)
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03:41.14*** join/#brlcad ibot (n=ibot@rikers.org)
03:41.14*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.0 is now posted (20081108)
03:51.33*** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=starseek@bz.bzflag.bz)
03:51.57starseekerhmm, dead screen session
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10:36.26``Erikyargh.
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10:57.32mafmhi
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13:36.47starseeker``Erik:  Second the motion
14:00.53brlcadhowdy mafm
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14:16.04``ErikO.o
14:36.25``Erikwanders around a bit repeating questions to people who give elusive answers O.o
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19:56.48i`lyapunkrockgirl: really a lady?
20:00.03brlcadi`lya: she's too good for you
20:01.12i`lyabrlcad: oh, come on!
20:05.46i`lyafriday, heh
20:07.39i`lyastarseeker: hello! i wanted to ask you to download those files under my account on sourceforge. Let me send you account info.
20:09.55i`lyastarseeker: i have only few xml -files with commands and about 100 kb of plain text of mged_cmd_index.html I plan to translate it in a short time and upload "into" the tracker. I will translate ~/docs then.
20:11.29i`lyai'm also creating lots of my skilled-job examples - that's why everything is so slow.
20:15.24i`lyastarseeker: b-t-w, i'm separating "command promptst" from its full description in that plain text on russian. - So if you e.g. creating these xml-files from some template in some program (or e.g. by means of the script on "python) - it will be very easy to do it. Shall I "mark" paragraphs?
20:17.51i`lyabrlcad: can i fill xml files by means of python programming language - from plain text with marks as e.g. *command_name*, **argument** **argument**, ***promt***, ****description**** - and so on ??
20:18.33brlcadi`lya: you could, but that's also what docbook is good at
20:18.39i`lyabrlcad: but i need to read another info, not about python p.l. - at least these week
20:18.41brlcadjust put the real docbook tags, and then write a script
20:20.37i`lyabrlcad: but i do not know scripting yet. Do you mean those tags as e.g. <arg>argument</arg> ??
20:21.07i`lyabrlcad: i can do it, but i will read about the scripting not as soon
20:23.44i`lyabrlcad: so... i will look towards good tutorial on the python programming language theme (because of code-aster.org, which fea package uses it also)
20:29.49brlcadi`lya: yes, tags just like html .. docbook just has a handful of tags
20:34.10*** part/#brlcad AddZero (n=user@c75-111-103-220.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net)
20:46.36i`lyathen if i've used tags as <arg></arg> at both, command and Exmaples section - collation functions will be abit more sophisticared than just collation of tags
20:47.25i`lyabrlcad: do you know Harvey Birdman ??
20:47.29brlcadnope
20:47.40i`lyabrlcad: ?
20:48.09brlcadi`lya: ?
20:48.14i`lyait's an "adult swim" on cable tv cartoon series
20:48.35brlcadit's a time of night that a particular cartoon network plays adult cartoons
20:49.03brlcadrather, yes I know of adult swim, but still don't know the reference
20:49.13i`lyabrlcad: right, and since i look tv right now- i'm watching it
20:49.20i`lyabrlcad: ok
20:50.23i`lyabrlcad: i'm working at nights last time
20:51.49i`lyabrlcad: is it true, that first macintosh was some kind of... 9 seconds to boot - and "unified" GUI for all, no variety of protocols, no variety of progs ?
20:53.58brlcadhm, less than 9 seconds iirc
20:54.10i`lyai mean, i think e.g. good 'beautiful' operating system of the future will have only one wireless protocol instead of bluetooth and wi-fi, - and so on. Because of a fact, that processors will be ..
20:54.17brlcadnearly instant boot
20:54.39i`lyabrlcad: right! this is what i think about last time...
20:56.24i`lyai think modern systems are too complicated... I wish wi-fi can connect to bluetooth adapters... Capitalism...
20:57.37brlcadJef Raskin talks about the boot up time in his book, "The Humane Interface"
20:57.47brlcadvery good read, highly recommend it
20:59.10i`lyabrlcad: is it free?
21:01.55i`lyabrlcad: as a person of the world, i must say i think any art & things-we-play is a deviation from the calmness being found in contemplaining the another gender. Any technology could be more friendly & moving towards the ecology
21:10.01i`lyabrlcad: do you have a car? if yes, front or rear drive?
21:10.38*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-58-236-74.dclient.hispeed.ch)
21:12.42i`lyaclock_: why don't sleep this time?
21:20.03CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03r_weiss * r33364 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/ (Makefile.am dem-g.c): Initial upload of converter of USGS ASCII DEM file to BRL-CAD dsp primitive.
21:27.42``Erikw00t
21:28.11i`lya``Erik: still with no pants, ha-ha?
21:28.21CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03r_weiss * r33365 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/dem-g.c: Added standard header to dem-g.c
21:32.02``Erikpants are for the weak
21:32.17CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33366 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/dem-g.c: features.h is not standard. Eliminate the _ISOC99_SOURCE line. Minor header section cleanup.
22:01.02*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016142244.customer.alfanett.no)
22:45.33i`lya``Erik: can you advise me some good snowy wallpaper 1280x1024 ?
22:46.10i`lyalike rally+snow or as Alta Badia in KDE
23:01.27i`lya/me imagines PrezKennedy's wife with no pants, and her with no pants, too
23:01.59i`lya...and punkrockgirl with no pants, too :-/
23:23.06``Erikrolls up a newspaper and smacks ilya
23:23.08``Erikno, bad, mine
23:25.45i`lya``Erik:
23:33.02punkrockgirl;P
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23:50.08*** join/#brlcad sport1 (n=sporty@217.8.236.156)
23:50.25sport1goes mad
23:50.34*** part/#brlcad sport1 (n=sporty@217.8.236.156)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081213

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081213

00:02.55*** join/#brlcad ilya (n=sporty@217.8.236.156)
00:03.20ilyawhat was written on my logging in ??
00:28.56*** part/#brlcad sporty_ (n=sporty@217.8.236.156)
00:43.40*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
01:28.43*** join/#brlcad redvsblue (i=Pandora@c-69-247-220-102.hsd1.mo.comcast.net)
04:17.46*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@208.43.126.195-static.reverse.softlayer.com)
04:24.14CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33367 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: richard gains code contributor status with the addition of his dem-g terrain importer, congrats and thanks!
04:33.14mafmnight
06:43.17*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedyJR (i=Matthew@208.43.126.195-static.reverse.softlayer.com)
09:03.47*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
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12:23.47mafmhi
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13:20.18*** part/#brlcad tanderson (n=gentoofa@gentoo/developer/gentoofan23)
14:09.56*** join/#brlcad sporty__ (n=sporty_@217.8.236.202)
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15:56.02sporty__***everybody relax today*** Let's keep a spirit alive! Come on! Hardcore!
15:56.34mafmO_o
15:56.40sporty__ibot: time
15:56.41ibot2008.12.13 15:56:41 GMT
16:38.18*** join/#brlcad CIA-6 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
16:39.33*** join/#brlcad sporty__ (n=sporty_@217.8.236.160)
17:20.52*** part/#brlcad sporty__ (n=sporty_@217.8.236.160)
18:12.08*** join/#brlcad sporty__ (n=sporty_@217.8.236.141)
18:21.32sporty__imagines how PrezKennedyJR's daughters draft themself in BRL-CAD suite 7.12 64-bit in GUI
18:41.36sporty__(they create "no pants till the end" version and give it to sporty__, who gives him a kiss's last album, and a kiss)
18:42.03sporty__and a kwiws
18:47.50*** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=starseek@bz.bzflag.bz)
18:48.08sporty__"Ko-rotational Whit-Indirect (ah Wow!) S", a letter S made of love and passion (sorry, checking out my English skills again) - or just a kwiws. Kwiwses are very popular at the south of the eastern Europe withing a poor families where spouse can not take too much financial assets out from the business at a marriage. [kwiws latin smth. virtual"
18:48.09*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@unaffiliated/minuteelectron)
18:48.42sporty__*poor families*
18:55.00sporty__just writing my own "fictionary"
18:55.24sporty__who can add stories?
19:20.49*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177680095.dsl.bell.ca)
19:21.28IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/Project_Cassandra.png :)
19:23.42sporty__ok, need to add proxy settings to the new browser
19:29.32IriX64's ears perk up, browser? i wonder...
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19:51.49*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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20:43.47sporty__how can I ask ibot something without boring whole the channel? how can i IM to ibot
20:55.11sporty__ibot:
21:00.50sporty__ibot: time
21:01.05ibotYou cannot understand nature's perfect time cube! (2008.12.13 21:01:05 GMT)
21:02.27*** part/#brlcad sporty__ (n=sporty_@217.8.236.141)
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21:59.44``Erikmy time cube is teh bettarz
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23:07.21csanyipalHi, I have installed brl-cad 7.14.1. Are there in this version a tool to insert some text in a model?
23:28.59csanyipalOr can I export the current MGED display to an image file? Or can I edit an exported ps file to add some text to the image?
23:31.04*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
23:44.07brlcadcsanyipal: there were some modifications to make it easier to insert text, but I've not tested them out to see how/if they're exposed to the user yet
23:44.38brlcadcsanyipal: you can, though, export the current mged display to an image file (the wireframe) using the File -> Save View options
23:45.34mafmhi brlcad
23:45.47mafmhow's the libged thingy coming along?
23:45.53brlcadthere are options for plot (.pl) and postscript (.ps) options, and a variety of command line tools for converting those (e.g. pl-fb | fb-png)
23:46.06brlcadmafm: pretty well, it's almost complete
23:46.56mafmwhen it would be? I don't see a lot of activity for libged in the commits (although when moving I never put much attention)
23:47.29brlcadit's been non-stop
23:48.49mafmthat means too much, or maybe not but all the time?
23:49.48mafmI saw some from Bob but mostly related to TCL
23:50.05brlcadthere is libged work mixed in with what looks like tcl work
23:50.18brlcadthe tcl work almost always followed a libged change
23:50.22brlcadthat was his way of testing it
23:51.12mafmoh, I see
23:51.45mafmwhen everything is finishing, there will be somebody to guide me to continue the work, or it would be me having to do the design and all that too?
23:52.35mafmfinishing->-ed
23:53.54csanyipalbrlcad: Sorry, but I haven't that option: File -> Save View ...
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081214

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081214

00:02.18brlcadcsanyipal: that was just from memory, it's on the File menu
00:02.23brlcadlook for ps and plot options
00:07.25mafmbrlcad: so?
00:08.17brlcadmafm: yeah, someone should help guide the work
00:08.25mafmfine
00:08.29brlcadthere are three pieces
00:08.37brlcadlibged, the engine, and the service
00:09.10mafmbecause I'll be finishing the degree's project hopefully, and I'm still a bit lost with all this really
00:09.11brlcadultimately, g3d should get hooked into the latter service
00:10.26mafmthat's David's one?
00:10.38csanyipalbrlcad: ok I got now a file.ps and converted it with pstoedit in to a .sk format. Now I open it with skencil to edit it. Thanks!
00:16.01*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@bz.bzflag.bz)
00:16.14pooliohowdy all
00:22.43brlcadhowdy!
00:26.02csanyipalBuy!
01:00.11mafmnight
01:04.13*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
01:42.31pooliobrlcad: how's life?
01:42.52*** join/#brlcad kanzure (i=bbishop@66.112.232.117)
01:43.24kanzureHello.
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02:52.06*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@208.43.126.195-static.reverse.softlayer.com)
06:33.50yukonbobhello, cadheads
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13:43.10mafmhi
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16:52.16brlcadkanzure: howdy
16:52.36brlcadpoolio: going great -- just moved into a new house
18:04.14kanzureHi brlcad.
18:05.21*** join/#brlcad DanielFalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-74-200.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
18:05.58kanzureI've been busy working on a converting a thumbdrive into a live linux ISO so that I can recover a machine. I was playing around with BRLCAD, decided to switch the mouse out (to get me a wheel), and metal connected and the box turned off. Turns out I had a new kernel waiting to boot up, and now it panics on bootup.
18:07.41DanielFalckhi is there a web location with logfiles of this channel?
18:08.49kanzureYes.
18:09.24DanielFalckahha- http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/
18:26.39kanzurehttp://heybryan.org/brlcad.html <- My compilation notes.
18:45.02kanzure3~1~\
18:48.23brlcadkanzure: those issues should already be fixed in the latest svn sources
18:48.52brlcadXi not getting included has been there for a while -- configure warns about it (not that anyone notices..) :)
18:51.22*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
19:33.56kanzurebrlcad: Nah, I noticed configure complaining, even with --with-libs="-lXi". But whatever.
20:41.59*** join/#brlcad DanielFalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-74-200.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
21:08.37yukonbobhello, cadheads
22:48.55*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=WarLock@bas2-sudbury98-1177879371.dsl.bell.ca)
22:49.09IriX64re's
22:49.39pooliobrlcad: sweet. is this closer to baltimore?
23:36.46brlcadpoolio: it's *in* baltimore, so yeah ;)
23:43.24redvsbluefyi: today is erik's bday :D
23:47.54*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016142244.customer.alfanett.no)
23:50.02brlcadredvsblue: heh, thx
23:57.49yukonbobhey cadheads, a question:
23:58.09yukonbobwhat are your favourite cad/3d-gfx monthlies?
23:58.42yukonbobI was @ a magazine shop the other day, and looking at a magazine for 3d gfx when this question occured to me...
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081215

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081215

01:39.30*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@208.43.126.195-static.reverse.softlayer.com)
02:57.53*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016142244.customer.alfanett.no)
03:03.23brlcadyukonbob: the only monthly I really care about are the monthly releases of BRL-CAD ;)
03:04.58DanielFalckhi brlcad, it's been quite a while since I have used brlcad.  Is it now possible to extrude a dxf path into a solid?
03:05.19DanielFalckusing some other program like qcad to generate the dxf
03:19.41yukonbobbrlcad: :)
03:21.25brlcadDanielFalck: dxf's with closed-form 2D entities should now import as our sketch primitive
03:22.03DanielFalckok, great
03:22.07brlcadsketches can be extruded (linearly)
03:22.29DanielFalckis there any way to generate taper?
03:22.31brlcadcan't yet sweep them along an arbitrary spline path, though -- that work started this summer but wasn't completed
03:40.34brlcaddepends on the shape of the taper and what's being tapered, you could use a separate boolean operation to cut accordingly
03:40.45brlcadalas, extrudes can't be tapered though
03:40.59brlcadat least not via a built-in taper value
03:42.46DanielFalckok, no problem.  thanks for the info
04:10.05CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33368 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/extrude/extrude.c: ws & style consistency cleanup
04:52.26CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33369 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/extrude/extrude.c: unbreak. macros are scoped, so have to use parens if we're going to put the semicolon.
05:21.37*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=WarLock@bas2-sudbury98-1128565131.dsl.bell.ca)
06:02.50*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedyJR (i=Matthew@208.43.126.195-static.reverse.softlayer.com)
09:30.24*** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@172.Red-83-45-253.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
09:31.25mafmhi
10:13.12*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch)
11:27.07*** join/#brlcad claymore (n=claymore@bz.bzflag.bz)
11:27.40claymoreMorning all!
11:28.25*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch)
11:34.40claymoreyawns.
11:44.21claymoreHere is a link to some photoshop artists' work.  Some good, some strange.... http://psdtuts.com/articles/web/54-mind-blowing-digital-paintings/
11:57.48*** join/#brlcad clock__ (n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch)
12:01.55claymoreanyone:  If I build a library (aka boost) and want to include it in a C++ compile, its simply a matter of adding it to the g++ command line... correct?    g++ -I ../../include -o myCppApp myCppFile.cxx /path/to/boost/system/build/gcc-4.1.2/release/threading-multi/libboost_system-gcc41-mt-1_37.so.1.37.0
12:02.35claymoreyet once I attempt to run myCppApp, i get the following error:    error while loading shared libraries: libboost_system-gcc41-mt-1_37.so.1.37.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
12:03.01claymorewhich tells me that either the library didn't build right or a path isn't set right somewhere....
12:03.06claymore... any help?
12:17.11Ralithclaymore: you need to link the lib, too.  I suggest you familiarize yourself with the basics before moving into things like multithreading and boost.
12:19.25claymore:/ well thats helpful, lol.
12:20.50*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
12:21.29claymoreRalith:  I understand that I need to link the lib, and that is what I thought I was doing.  hence my confusion and question.
12:22.16claymoreare you speaking of using -l ?
12:23.27Ralith-I sets your include path and nothing more
12:23.29Ralith-l links a lib
12:23.31Ralithafk
12:23.53claymorethanks for confirming that
12:28.03claymorebtw how is the weather over on the west coast? (when you come back from AFK)
12:42.11claymore...strange, looks like the rpath isn't setting. :/
13:50.12*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch)
13:52.51Axman6clock_: "XMLSLT UML RUP ITIL SQL Oracle Java SAP  AJAX IIS ASP Visual Basic C# .NET IT" -- sounds painful :(
13:54.08clock_lol
13:58.54Axman6what are RUP and ITIL?
14:02.00clock_Some kind of bloatware
14:25.14``Erika/det
14:25.16brlcad-L is library search path, -I is header include search path
14:25.31``ErikO.o howdy
14:26.18claymorerighto, got all that.  libraries compiled and installed into ~/lib/ since I don't have access to /usr/local/lib/
14:26.29brlcad-l is library to link with a preferential order for dynamic then static depending on the platform
14:26.38brlcadyou shouldn't ever need to use full paths when linking unless you're doing something really wrong
14:27.19claymorehowever, I cannot get the linker to recognize that the .so's are in ~/lib... even when I feed them the whole path via -l and/or give them the appropriate name via -l and path via -L
14:27.19brlcadsince you're autotools-building, you also shouldn't need to install prior to using the library (one of libtool's jobs)
14:27.48brlcadexcept for installing "all of boost" like was mentioned last week so you can figure out what to include
14:27.59``Erik-L$HOME/lib
14:28.12``Erik./configure LDFLAGS=-L$HOME/libs
14:28.31``Erikor sumfin
14:28.55claymore``Erik: during the myCppApp build or the boost lib build?
14:29.19``Erikgcc assumes a .so, um, so you need like $HOME/lib/libcrap.so for -lcrap to work
14:29.36``Erikduring your app build, whatever is looking fo rthe libs
14:29.49claymorehrm.  aight, I have a few more things to try then.  Thanks
14:30.07brlcadshould be mycppapp build
14:30.13``ErikI'm in right now, so if you get stuck, lemme know and I'll walk down
14:30.37brlcadboost will have had the path embedded as part of --prefix
14:32.02claymorerighto, I have the 'make install' command reporting: --prefix=/home/dloman --exec-prefix=/home/dloman --libdir=/home/dloman/lib --includedir=/home/dloman/include
14:32.34``Erikprefix should be sufficient, the exec looks wrong, the libdir and includedir are redundant
14:32.35claymoreand that is as I had it before.  :/
14:33.05claymore``Erik: Tell the boost guys :)  they wrote the ./configure :)
14:33.19claymoreI just copy/pasted it
14:34.03``Erikheh, in the normal world, --exec-prefix will default to /home/dloman/bin, and the other two will be filled by the prefix arg :) mebbe boost does something special :)
14:34.39claymore``Erik: LDFLAGS=-L$HOME/libs will set where the libraries will reside when all is said and done?
14:34.56``Erikno, it says where to look for libs
14:35.21claymoreoh duh, never mind.  lol my bad.
14:35.26claymoreinfo overlaod
14:36.41brlcadclaymore: configure lines are almost always just suggestions/examples -- they probably wrote them all out just to show that they can all be overridden
14:36.54brlcaddoesn't make them any less redundant, though (for lib/include)
14:39.33*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@unaffiliated/minuteelectron) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
14:52.11claymoredeflates.
14:54.24claymore``Erik: got a minute?
15:24.43``Erikdetonates
15:25.56claymoreesssplosion?
15:26.07``Erikasplode
15:26.24claymorewhoa now, thats at least a yellow light buddy.
15:26.48``Eriksettle down, boy, I'm with punker O.o
15:27.18claymorejams to Beastie Boys
15:42.32*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch)
15:57.01*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
16:05.48*** join/#brlcad kanzure (i=bbishop@66.112.232.117)
16:07.08kanzureWhat's the difference between doing an mged command like "comb dome.c u part1.r part2.r part3.r" and "r mypartname.r u sphere1 sphere2" ? Is it just that g/comb doesn't operate on primitives? Seems like an extra layer of abstraction going on.
16:07.37``Erikiirc, the onyl difference is that 'r' sets the region flag and 'comb' does nt
16:15.03brlcadkanzure: comb is for creating generalized combinations using any sort of boolean recipe; g creates combinations of only unions; r is for creating generalized combinations that are considered *regions*
16:15.34brlcadkanzure: regions are where something goes from being a pattern/shape/idea to physically occupying space
16:20.27kanzureThe tutorial says that regions are just whatever it was before plus some material metadata.
16:20.32kanzure(the mged tutorial)
16:20.47claymorethats correct.
16:21.37kanzureBlah. I don't need tutorials. I need code :-). /me goes back to reading.
16:25.23brlcadkanzure: what's the difference between a blueprint for a car and a car?  it's what it was befreo plus some material metadata (i.e. it occupies space)
16:25.56clock_brlcad: the blueprint starts even in winter
16:26.18kanzurebrlcad: Sorry, that doesn't work for me. I'm coming from a programmer's perspective; my "blueprints" usually contain some quite dense information, not just geometric primitives etc.
16:26.29kanzurehas a strange background, so the terminology isn't synched yet.
16:27.06brlcadkanzure: one is an "idea", one physically occupies space -- organizationally, they're is no difference
16:27.30``Erikjust a 1 bit flag :)
16:27.30brlcadfrom a programmer's perspective, it's literally a boolean flag that is set
16:27.35kanzureMaybe it would help to know what other commands do when the region flagged is set/unset.
16:27.44brlcadbut that flag changes the way things behave -- where overlaps exist
16:27.48kanzureah?
16:28.30brlcadakin to "shape" vs solid
16:29.25kanzureSo, I can (uselessly) have a shape that intersects itself, but if a region/solid had that sort of configuration it would be invalid? Is that's what's going on here?
16:29.43kanzure*intersects and goes through itself in a physically impossible manner, to be more precise
16:30.09brlcadright
16:31.19brlcadbefore it's a region -- if you union two objects together, it's the union of the sets they represent -- if it's a region and one is steel overlapping another object that is wood, that's invalid since you have two materials occupying the same space
16:35.25kanzureNeat, 'tree' shows me a boolean algebra tree. If I modify one of the primitives at some ridiculous depth in the hierarchy, is the entire tree modified, or is there a way for me to do versioning control on it?
16:36.55brlcadI don't know what you mean by the entire tree being modified, but there is no automatic versioning control
16:37.02brlcadat least not yet
16:37.30brlcadone of the features of the new geometry service is to provide automatic versioning control on all edits, comprehensive tracking
16:38.14brlcador by versioning control, do you mean instantiation .. you have 20 crayons in a box and you want to make one have a bite taken out of it
16:38.24brlcadthat's easily doable
16:38.26kanzureI think that's nearly the same thing
16:38.56kanzurethat second case, of 20 crayons + a bite taken out could be done via copying the tree, but maybe I'm lazy and I do something "irreversible" and harm my precious tree
16:39.05kanzureI guess you already answered that though, it's generally irreversible at the moment :)
16:39.08brlcadno no, not at all the same thing -- by versioning control, I'm talking SVN/CVS style complete revision history of all edits
16:39.23kanzureyes me too, but I was thinking of an object-level for versioning control, not for the entire file.
16:39.41brlcadI mean per object too
16:39.54brlcadinstantiation is a much different beast though
16:40.43brlcadin y our example, you could create a copy of the tree -- there are shallow (referential) copies and deep copies you can perform
16:41.16brlcadif you wanted to be safe, you could make a deep copy and do whatever you wanted, the original tree would be unmodified (as there is no association after the deep copy)
16:41.22kanzurebut if I don't make a copy before I make a modification to a very integral component, then the overall tree is modified, even before I ask for the new tree to be recomputed?
16:41.30brlcadif it's a shallow copy, then it depends on the edits performed of course
16:44.54brlcadthere is no "recomputation" that occurs, everything is instant -- but if I understand you correctly -- yeah, if you make a change, it's changed ;)
16:45.18kanzureok, instant change propagation and such.
16:45.34claymoreOne must unlearn what they have learned... for there is no spoo..err, undo.
16:45.39brlcadmuch like the unix command line, very unforgiving -- modelers using the command line are expected to learn/know the implications of the various commands
16:46.15brlcadmake copies of your .g when you're first getting started ;)
16:47.30brlcadkanzure: it's not so much that it propagates, either -- think of how the CSG hierarchy is stored in memory, it's a graph of nodes -- all you did was change a node, nothing to propagate/recompute
16:47.55brlcadsomething like the "tree" command just walks the graph and prints it while it walks
16:48.52kanzureright, and frankly I prefer the shell :) none of this engelbart mouse nonsense.
16:50.17claymorethere are a few tasks in mged that can be accomplished *MUCH* faster via use of gui/mouse.  The reverse is also true.  Its a nice balance really :)
16:50.45kanzureClicking a few thousand times with a mouse can get dull.
16:51.31claymoretrue dat.
16:58.48DanielFalckbrlcad: I'm looking for a non-64 bit binary for linux on sourceforge- I don't see one
16:59.10kanzureDanielFalck: I ended up compiling one for myself the other day.
16:59.42kanzureDanielFalck: brlcad suggested to check the source out from svn to get around some minor annoyances in the configure-make-install process.
16:59.52DanielFalckok, will do
17:05.38brlcadDanielFalck: look at the previous releases
17:06.03DanielFalckI found 7.10, but I think I'll build from svn
17:06.08brlcada version or two earlier should work just as well unless there's some specific feature you know you need
17:06.19brlcadthat works too
17:06.30brlcadshould have another release up shortly
17:15.02*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14EFE3.dip.t-dialin.net)
17:53.08brlcadDanielFalck: build going okay?
17:53.45brlcad"sh autogen.sh && ./configure --enable-all --prefix=/usr/brlcad/rel-7.12.6 --enable-optimized && make -j4"  should do the trick
17:54.12brlcadusing whatever prefex and -j#procs you have of course
17:56.32DanielFalckit's making right now
18:00.01kanzureIs there a way for me to serialize everything I've done into a set of commands and scripts?
18:00.40kanzureah, I guess just having the .g file means I can go back and modify objects with a script, so nevermind
18:01.37kanzurewas writing a filter generator in python a few weeks ago that generated STL files, to link up to OpenFOAM for CFD, but this is looking like a better deal :)
18:01.59brlcadyeah, or if you run g2asc, it'll turn it into an "mged script" i.e., a brl-cad database in ascii form
18:02.17kanzureThanks.
18:03.09brlcadmged itself is pretty heavily scriptable in a variety of ways too, an example of a few of them at http://brlcad.org/wiki/SGI_Cube
18:03.58kanzureyeah I found that page a few moments ago when I was about to start complaining about Tcl (I've been able to avoid it so far, you see)
18:06.44brlcadbasically amounts to mged supporting single-command invocation, commands over piped or redirected input, commands loaded via the 'script' command, or a serialized subset using the ascii storage format
19:32.14*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
19:52.52*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=WarLock@bas2-sudbury98-1128564944.dsl.bell.ca)
19:55.57IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/mysystem.png :)
19:56.22claymore......ewww vista.... ;)
19:56.34IriX64heh fun stuff :)
19:57.12IriX64its usefull..... it's building brlcad ;)
19:58.33claymoreis getting ready to dump xp-pro for good at home :)
19:58.45IriX64in favor of ...
19:59.13IriX64mine dual boots, xp-pro or vista64
19:59.19claymoreFedora, RHEL or ubuntu.... haven't quite decided yet.
19:59.51IriX64no gentoo :)
20:00.13IriX64curious about gentoo
20:01.49IriX64this irssi was built on vista64.
20:01.49claymoreI think starseeker is a gentoo fanboi....
20:10.27``Erikhttp://funroll-loops.info/
20:10.48claymoredies laughing.
20:10.59claymorezomg so fast!
20:11.35IriX64that good :)
20:12.28IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/compilestation.png  --- prefer this :)
20:13.04*** join/#brlcad sporty__ (n=sporty_@217.118.79.43)
20:13.06claymore..i don't get it.  Other than Vista, there is nothing funny there....
20:13.09claymore:D
20:13.17IriX64heh right
20:13.47sporty__IriX64: that was nice link, that one to sympatico.ca
20:13.48claymorelol
20:13.53claymore+b on *!gentoouser@*
20:13.59IriX64vista says. shhhh i'm pretending to be ubuntu ;)
20:15.22sporty__IriX64: obviously, kde and kubuntu has more sophisticated features, such as an "aggresive" use of RAM when it loads whole .pdf into RAM - and tons of such features
20:16.03claymore"I essentially started using Gentoo because my ....ing KDE clock would never show the right time in Red Hat."  -LOL
20:16.21claymorehates ``Erik now for providing this excellent distraction :)
20:17.33``Erik*bow*
20:18.36claymoreOPTIMILAZIATIONS....nice
20:19.40DanielFalckbrlcad: thanks, I got the latest installed. Now I need to learn how to use it
20:19.58sporty__Also, kde usually represents the true linux style: "Whole installation" = dozen of the web browsers, dozen of the text editors, and so on. Exactly this was a "taste of the linux" - at least for me when all i did in pc was in windows: games as nfs i, games as gta with english speech
20:22.35claymorewants to raise his iPod access time by 0.2%
20:23.06``ErikI d'no, linux tastes kinda gamey... O.o http://www.churchofbsd.org/bsd-vs-linux-s.jpg
20:23.43claymorehaha, t'n'a in red leather is >> than most OS'es.
20:24.23claymorefights a nasty headache. Cya tomarrows!
20:24.32``Eriklater, dude
20:24.42IriX64salutes claymore ;)
20:24.49claymoreoh yeah, thanks for the help ``Erik !
20:25.00claymoreIriX64: No saluting, I was enlisted :)
20:25.09IriX64heh aright
20:27.12sporty__IriX64: How do you think, what is a better name, Home page, or a Main page ??
20:27.47sporty__i mean, which one is essentially more suitable for web-sites?
20:28.05IriX64startpage ;)
20:28.17sporty__IriX64: right!
20:28.54sporty__IriX64: how can i join to ibot ? Is it like """/join nick:ibot """ ??
20:29.04IriX64no idea
20:29.09sporty__IriX64: ok
20:32.20*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=WarLock@bas2-sudbury98-1128564944.dsl.bell.ca)
20:32.34IriX64^C the wrong window :)
20:32.53sporty__IriX64: hello
20:33.07IriX64?
20:33.20sporty__j/k
21:17.33sporty__hello?
21:17.53sporty__:-[
21:57.37IriX64grins, and says my clipboard is showing :)
22:05.45IriX64mc
22:18.23sporty__ok, irix64 has left the room, but we're keep' rock' on and our next guest is ... is... is... brlcad!
22:18.44sporty__brlcad: how do ya?
22:19.06sporty__brlcad: oh yeah, fine.
22:19.33sporty__brlcad: what is a next primitive to be drawn?
22:19.44sporty__brlcad: "um..."
22:20.00sporty__brlcad: is it a shovel to kill me?
22:20.19sporty__brlcad: "yeah, i think so":-D
22:20.30sporty__goes mad from the boredoom
22:52.23sporty__advances in his work.
22:59.24kanzureAre we pasting system screenshot links now? re: IriX64's link. I think I can win: http://heybryan.org/shots/ and http://heybryan.org/shots/inspiration/ for physicals.
23:04.46*** join/#brlcad geocalc (n=geocalc@lns-bzn-38-82-253-122-178.adsl.proxad.net)
23:15.04PrezKennedyi can top that, but first i have to get my gallery working again
23:15.11PrezKennedyso i can show you the picture
23:15.34kanzureDo you mean to say that you can top the phyiscal setup too? That's eight monitors.
23:16.05kanzurehttp://heybryan.org/shots/inspiration/notstevebutjoe/IMG_0865.JPG
23:41.09sporty__i'm off: have nothing to show yet, but i'll have posted it soon.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081216

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081216

00:00.12kanzureHm. So I have a rectangle with a rectangle going through it, I take the intersection and that's a region. I copy the region, but then I have to individually move the two primitives to get the copied region to the location that I desire. Is there a simpler way to move a region and everything in it?
00:00.55kanzures/rectangle/prism/
00:01.37kanzureg
00:17.26brlcadblinks
00:18.45brlcadsporty__: wth are you talking about?  if you're bored -- I'm sure I could find some feature requests that need to be implemented for you
00:26.29brlcadkanzure: yes, you can apply a matrix edit to the copied region
00:26.45brlcadoed / copied_region/path/to/primitive
00:26.49brlcadtra 100 0 0
00:26.50brlcadaccept
00:27.12kanzurecan I do oed / copied_region   \n tra x y z ?
00:28.13brlcadthat is what copied_region/path/to/primitive does .. it moves "copied_region" .. not the primitive
00:28.48brlcadthe reason you have to specify the path all the way down to a primitive is merely because of an implementation detail -- it needs a keypoint
00:29.35brlcadoed works with a left-hand and right-hand path .. moving the thing on the right
00:29.46kanzureThanks.
00:31.18brlcadso if you have an object "top" that contains "a" and "b" primitives, you could "oed / top/a" or "oed / top/b" to use a or b as a keypoint on moving top; or "oed /top a" and "oed /top b" to move the specific instance of a or b respectively that top references
00:31.55brlcadthere's a nice tutorial on OED on the website, http://brlcad.org/w/images/3/36/Object_Editing_-_the_oed_Command.pdf
01:02.21*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177593586.dsl.bell.ca)
01:02.46sporty__brlcad: today, i'm ending up another project. only brl-cad is left from all i've intented
01:03.45IriX64it can now be said that wherever you have a ${TK} token in makefile.am, you need an ${X_LIBS} token and in X_LIBS include -lXss and -lXft, tk needs those man, and now mged and the rest build fine.
01:09.38*** join/#brlcad mafm_ (n=mafm@172.Red-83-45-253.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
01:23.55PrezKennedykanzure, http://photos.mkweb.us/v/personal/DSCF1686.JPG.html
01:40.14*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177593586.dsl.bell.ca)
01:41.39IriX64http://rafb.net/p/3mDWZk87.html <-solver-test.exe and vm-test.exe need this little ditty fixed
01:41.47IriX64in libpc
01:45.36IriX64http://rafb.net/p/IqrVTk15.html   <--pcVariable, on my system this is system declared, get multiple definitions if i dont comment it out
01:46.06IriX64and now solver-test and vm-test build joy :)
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02:03.14IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/brlcad.png   <--- on vista yet :)
02:09.52IriX64use the pictures if you like, brl-cad has afforded me many happy moments :)
02:22.11sporty__IriX64: what is on that picture?
02:22.19IriX64havoc
02:22.48IriX64err havoc.g :)
02:22.53sporty__IriX64: what is its size and main colours? What resolution?
02:23.02IriX64who cares
02:23.21sporty__IriX64: i want to use it as a wallpaper
02:23.36sporty__IriX64: gimme
02:23.42IriX64download it
02:23.56sporty__IriX64: what is its size then?
02:24.20IriX64you're serious, you have to know its size?
02:24.38sporty__IriX64: yes, i pay 0.10-0.30 per mb
02:24.41IriX64my screen res is 1650x1040
02:25.03IriX64native res
02:25.16sporty__sweet and :( - guess it's too big for a day, what size in kb ?
02:25.29IriX64oh that just a sec...
02:25.58sporty__IriX64: well, i can imagine, what colors then (light / grey)
02:26.23IriX64147,780 bytes
02:26.29sporty__dark? or a light one? Why not "love" or "happiness" ??
02:26.34IriX64its full color
02:27.30sporty__omg! no, i've used to spent less kb a day. Buy me an internet - and i will see links. Would you?
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02:31.36sporty__IriX64: o.15 usd / meg - to be exact. i would load e.g. "happines" - at least a tiny bit! :-]
02:31.51sporty__:-[
02:32.08IriX64firewall that cant be messed with here sport :)
02:32.29sporty__what do you mean?
02:32.46IriX64im behind a firewall
02:32.54IriX64cant dcc to you
02:33.27sporty__IriX64: dcc ?? what is it?
02:34.41sporty__IriX64: it's morning in here - and i'm working. You can imagine e.g. gilian underson (even in sexy poses) - and sleep with good thoughts on your mind.
02:36.35sporty__IriX64: this is usually a whole kingdom - ladies
02:36.40sporty__and computers are wrong :(
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04:20.03starseekeridly wonders about designing a .gxml or .gml file format for non-tcl based ascii output
04:20.30starseekerthen smacks himself for thinking of yet another way to keep his "primary" language xml
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05:02.52Ralithstarseeker: if you added xml I would smack you
05:06.13starseekerRalith:  too late then - lots of docbook in there already
05:06.35Raliththat's a reasonable exception :P
05:06.58Ralithdocs in xml is different than data in xml
05:07.05starseekerxml actually is a reasonable storage format if you aren't worried about being human readable, IMHO
05:07.14starseekerbetter to compress it
05:07.14louipcnot
05:07.29starseekerthe ubiquity of parsing tools is its own advantage
05:07.35Ralithstarseeker: if you aren't worried about being human readable, use a binary format.
05:07.42louipcxml is uh kind of bloated isn't it?
05:07.43RalithI mean, come on.
05:07.51louipcRalith++
05:08.16Ralithyou can even make it safe to transmit by base64ing it
05:08.50starseekerOh, it's bloated sure.
05:08.54louipcxml is nice as web markup
05:09.01Ralithand horribly painful to hand edit
05:09.08louipcor document markup perhaps
05:09.38louipcI am horrified to see it proliferate elsewhere :/
05:10.44starseekerIt's kind of one of those cases where universal tool support and "some standard is still better than no standard, however bloated" won out
05:10.53Ralithbut we're brl-cad ffs
05:11.03Ralithmake our own standards :P
05:11.08starseekerHeh
05:11.21starseekerOh, the binary .g is clearly the winner
05:11.31Ralith'xactly
05:11.39starseekerBut when it comes to g2asc and asc2g, I can't stand the asc format
05:12.02starseekertoo tied to tcl
05:12.10louipcsomeone has to innovate outside of standards
05:12.13Ralithhm.
05:12.16starseekerif we're going to have an ascii text representation, it should be tool agnostic
05:12.20Raliththat's a good point
05:12.21louipcstandards are sometimes innovation killers
05:12.28Ralithlouipc: only when abused
05:12.29starseekerand since we all agree .g is better anyway
05:12.50starseekerone thing that is for sure about xml is that it's tool/language agnostic
05:13.01Ralithstill, surely there's some other standard that would work
05:13.03RalithI mean hell
05:13.05RalithJSON would do the trick
05:13.16louipcyaml!
05:13.24Ralithyaml is interesting but not a standard afaik
05:13.34Ralithit is agnostic though!
05:14.10starseekerif there is to be an ASCII representation at all, my feeling is that the only advantage is that it is (or should be) potentially readable (insofar as possible) by anything
05:15.08louipcwhy is there an ascii format anyways?
05:15.25starseekerI think it dates back to before the binary format was platform independent
05:16.02louipcoh
05:16.07starseekerProbably its sole remaining advantages are 1) it allows direct editing of the database by a modeler outside of any interface
05:16.48starseeker2) it is archival in the sense that the geometric information can be (theoretically) recovered with virtually no knowledge of or support from any tool
05:17.08brlcadthere are two versions of the ascii format, v4 and v5 -- v4 was specifically because the binary format was not platform independent
05:17.59brlcadthe current v5 format is essentially an mged/tcl transcript equivalent to serialized command-line recreation of geometry
05:19.10brlcadv5 ascii is provided partly for backwards-compatibility/familiarity but more as a means to serialize the output to a readable form for debugging/inspection and external scripting purposes
05:20.44brlcadhaving an xml output format has come up before (g-xml exporter, xml-g importer), but it hasn't really solved any problem to date not already accounted for by another capability
05:21.20brlcadbeing xml doesn't give you a format standard, it just takes care of basic lexing -- anyone using your file still have to parse and comprehend the data/format
05:21.35starseekersure
05:22.30Ralithbut if well implemented, it could be easy to intuit the format sufficiently to reconstruct geometry
05:22.46brlcadthat can be said of any format :)
05:22.54Ralithnot without docs available
05:23.43Ralithif you gave someone a .g and said "this contains geometry," they probably wouldn't have a very easy time deciphering it.
05:23.44brlcaddepends on the format, we've reverse-engineered several a format just by looking at the contents
05:23.54Ralithsure, but was it ever straightforward?
05:24.18starseekerwinces in anticipation of a discussion of the meaning of "straightforward"
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05:24.45brlcadas far as binary formats go, .g's are very easy to decipher -- and there is a spec for it
05:24.57starseekersort of
05:24.59brlcadthough the intent isn't for everyone to write parsers, that's what a lib is for
05:25.44brlcadit's probably 95-99%% accurate
05:25.55brlcadmost of the ways its out of date are just due to age/maintenance
05:26.24Ralithbrlcad: okay, but if all you have is a file, and you get to choose between an intentionally human-readable file and an intentionally computer-readable file, which would you select? :P
05:26.32brlcaddocs have a maintenance burden just like code, just hasn't been a need to keep it up to date as often -- http://brlcad.sourceforge.net/newdb/newdb.html
05:26.53Raliththe former could probably be decoded in a fraction of the time of the latter, no matter how elegant the encoding.
05:27.00starseekerbrlcad:  Ah, is that the latest version?
05:27.35brlcadRalith: that entirely depends on the situation, and is a bit of a loaded question
05:27.48brlcadbecause we already have/provide more than just a file
05:28.16Ralithwell, I don't see it ever actually becoming a real world issue
05:28.16Ralithso w/e
05:28.18brlcadthere's a lib, there's manpage docs, there's the spec, there's the entire source
05:28.53starseekerapologizes for digging up the worms...
05:29.24brlcadRalith: hrm, you're saying the computer-readable file would be decoded in a fraction of the time or the intentionally human-readable file?
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05:30.15brlcadour experience shows the the computer-readable variant (i.e., our .g) to be *massively* higher-performance to parse than an encoded human-readable format
05:30.36Ralithbrlcad: the latter
05:30.40brlcadour .g is nearly a direct serialization of objects as they are in memory
05:30.49RalithI think you're missing my context
05:31.09brlcadokay, yeah -- that's what I'm saying too :)
05:31.10RalithI'm talking about a theoretical situation where one has a file and nothing else. No BRL-CAD, no docs.
05:31.14louipcthe brlcad format is open source, so it's not an issue :P
05:31.18brlcadyou'd just said "the former" .. which was human-readable
05:31.29Ralithbrlcad: which is what I just said again.
05:31.46Ralithfor someon who has no docs or brl-cad tools, a human-readable format is easier to decode.
05:31.53Ralithas starseeker said, it is thus a more ideal archival format.
05:32.07brlcadah, where by decode, you effectively mean reverse-engineer
05:32.17Ralithyes
05:32.25brlcadsure -- decoding binary proprietary formats sucks
05:32.30Ralithexactly!
05:32.38brlcadjust not relevant to us :)
05:32.47brlcadlike louipc said ;)
05:32.53Ralithassuming BRL-CAD tools will always be available to those who want them.
05:32.54Ralithwhich is reasonable.
05:33.03Ralithit's not like we're making a time capsule here
05:33.22starseekerlooks over newdb.html
05:33.57louipcI would put the physical object in the time capsule and let them decode it
05:33.58louipc;)
05:34.14starseekerNah, cad model's better - cars rust
05:34.32starseekerhttp://www.allpar.com/history/auto-shows/time-capsule.html
05:34.48brlcadstarseeker: fyi, with a bit of polish and clean-up, the v5 spec could actually probably be made an official mil, ansi, or iso spec
05:34.56louipclol!
05:35.02starseekerbrlcad:  Cool!
05:35.05brlcadconsidered pushing it through several times, but then .. I always get back to "what problem are we solving"
05:35.19louipcstarseeker: yeah I guess that is fail
05:35.31brlcadthose three being in increasing levels of difficulty
05:35.53starseekerbrlcad:  Maybe I can update it off the clock
05:35.57Ralithit *would* be pretty cool to have it be a formal standard
05:36.12starseekerlikes well done documents that don't solve practical problems :-P
05:36.17Ralithmake it easy to advocate for use in other projects too
05:36.44starseekeris itching to docbook this sucker...
05:37.04brlcadRalith: consider the tradeoff -- if you know it'll take up probably more than a man-year of effort
05:37.13brlcadpushing a spec through takes a *lot* of time
05:37.18brlcadand not just one person's
05:37.23starseekerlouipc:  I've got to remember to save links on that car - it's a perfect object lesson about archiving :-)
05:37.50brlcadwould you rather have a spec and the same modeling interface, or no spec and a year's worth of progress towards a better interface.. ;)
05:38.31brlcadif you're going to work on something that long-term, have to weigh it against the other long-term priorities it'll eat away at
05:38.32louipcbetter interface
05:38.51Ralithbrlcad: sure, I don't think it's actually worth putting the effort in
05:38.55Ralithbut it *would* be pretty neat!
05:39.33brlcadeven if flawlessly pushed through, a mil interface would probably take two years of calendar time, an ansi would probably take two to four, iso is mostly political :)
05:39.52brlcadabsolutely, that's why I think about it too from time to time .. would be very cool :)
05:39.53RalithI'd imagine it would be hard to politicise something for which there's little competition
05:39.58brlcadjust hard to justify
05:40.22starseekerRalith:  Pro/E, SolidWorks, Unigraphics...
05:40.29brlcadoh, iso would be hard politically mostly because of STEP
05:41.21Ralithstarseeker: target different audiences, and probably wouldn't care very much.
05:41.26Ralith(so I speculate)
05:41.31brlcadnobody likes affirming standards that directly compete
05:42.29brlcadSTEP is basically the union of all CAD formats, even including subsections for just about every little quirk we support too
05:43.21starseekerRalith: particularly when they serve to make free ($ and code) competitors more "valid" in the eyes of the world
05:43.34Ralithokay
05:43.50RalithI was going to argue that they probably wouldn't care enough to dedicate the effort to fight it
05:44.04Ralithbut then I realized that that was silly because we don't care enough to dedicate the effort to advocate it
05:44.07brlcadmil would be pretty appropriate since we could pretty easily sell it as being specific to the V/L domain
05:44.21brlcadbut mil isn't quite as visible
05:44.51starseekerRalith:  I refer you to what Microsoft has done to the open office suite standard efforts
05:45.16Ralithstarseeker: open office competes directly with word, and microsoft is known for its aggression :P
05:45.22louipcmil started arpanet, look how big that got ;)
05:45.45starseekerRalith:  If BRL-CAD continues to acquire features and open source community support, there are virtually no limits to its long term potential
05:45.50Ralithyep!
05:46.01Ralithits comptetitors probably don't realize that, though
05:47.36starseekerlooks at clock and kicks in sanity - gotta get in there earlier tomorrow to finish scanning
05:47.44starseekerlater all!
05:47.51louipcbye
05:48.11brlcador just aren't worried yet, we have a few manyears of usability effort to get on their radar
06:19.06yukonbobhello, cadheads
06:23.41CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33371 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob activated wizards in archer, added a new wizard for creating tires using cliff's tire proc-db
06:24.16CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33372 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: reword -- bob *activated* wizards in archer, added a new wizard for creating tires using cliff's tire proc-db
06:25.39CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33373 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: also similarly related, bob activated the primitive creation buttons in archer so users can create some of the supported primitives pretty easily
06:30.43brlcadhowdy yukonbob
06:38.56CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33374 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/swidgets/scripts/selectlists.itk:
06:38.56CIA-6BRL-CAD: partial revert of the mods made during 33283 where bob commited a new revision
06:38.56CIA-6BRL-CAD: of selectlists.itk with changes from doug howard, but inadvertently clobbered
06:38.56CIA-6BRL-CAD: basic changes that had occurred since for header/copyright updates and ws/indent
06:38.57CIA-6BRL-CAD: style consistency cleanup
06:42.07CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33375 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: bob applied a few tweaks (borderwidth, relief, selectmode, stickyness) to the layout of selection lists for doug howard. this should impact archer's layout.
08:29.47*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.136.85)
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10:57.05mafmhi
11:30.16AFK-claymorehowdy mafm!
11:30.51mafmhey claymore :)
11:32.00AFK-claymorewhats new?
11:36.02mafmI'm at my parent's home (not basement, yet :) )
11:36.31mafmI've been fighting with the lab but finally I "won"
11:37.02claymoreexcellent, so you have the rest of the month off (paid?)
11:37.33mafmup to jan 12th :)
11:37.45claymoredead sexy.
11:38.08mafmthey're part of my holidays, so... :)
11:38.20mafmI don't receive compensations for the 2+ years worked, but since they didn't agree in cancelling the contract I woulnd't have that anyway
11:43.47claymore:/
11:43.54claymorewell, at least you are getting something.
11:44.03claymoreany idea whats next on the horizon?
11:44.22mafmyep, time to work in my degree's final project \o/
11:44.53mafmwith friends of a free sw company, working with mobile stuff (maemo, gnome mobile, etc)
11:45.04mafmor e-learning projects in the univ
11:45.14mafmmaybe the former for a while and then the later, still undecided
11:45.47mafmthe univ is better for a while to finish my project
11:47.33mafmand it's a bit less demanding so I could devote more time to other projects (like g3d)
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11:51.10mafmhi clock_
11:51.15mafmanything new around here?
11:57.02clock_mafm: hi
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13:23.32``Erikclaymore, are you in?
13:24.53*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
13:25.09claymoreyuppers
13:25.30``ErikI can't get a hold off boss or receptionist, I'm not making it in today
13:26.16``Erikstomach is bugging me, couldn't eat lunch yesterday, almost had to pull over to puke on the drive home, cooked and promptly ignored dinner ... could you pass word for me?
13:27.04claymoresure thing.... not too many others are in also.
13:27.34``Erikheh, quite a few people were coughing and not feeling well yesterday
13:28.09``ErikI no one's answering the phone and I just don't wanna get gigged for not calling to notify :)
13:29.15``Eriks/^I //
13:32.51claymoreOkay.  Ed just rolled in and stands informed.
13:32.59``Erikok, thanks
13:33.22``Erikcurled over at the stoplight in churchville fighting puke down was NOT a good thing :(
13:33.35claymoreits funny that someone said 'Rain is coming tomarrow' and that there is a storm blowing in.  I didn't even think of the other meaning till Rain popped her head in my office and asked were everyone was :)
13:33.49``Erikain't no way I'm vomiting in that car, and there was no way I could get to the side of the road
13:33.54claymorelol
13:34.06``Erikah, how's she doing? she's down in west virginia for school, right?
13:34.29claymoreyou'd be *very* intrigued to know that Top Gear pitted an M3 vs a Toyota Prius in a gas milage test :)
13:34.48``Erikheh, wow, m3 runs ~21-22, prius should be getting low 40's
13:34.50claymorethe Prius had to run 'full bore' round a track while the M3 Paced it from behind, not allowed to pass.
13:34.57``Erikhahaha
13:35.03``Erikso stuck in second
13:35.04``ErikO:-)
13:35.18archivistI saw that one prius was useless
13:35.18claymoreSince the Prius was at 100%, it was operating highly ineffeiciently and got 18 mpg.
13:35.26``Erikwow
13:35.35``Erikm3 will hit 80 in second, 120 in third
13:35.51claymoreand the M3 was barely hitting 15%, so it got 19 mpg.
13:35.53claymore:)
13:36.01``Erikand have enough low end that I can sit into 6th at 35
13:36.01claymorem3 is more fuel effiecient at 45mph
13:36.14claymorearchivist: That was was pretty funny eh? :)
13:36.19archivistyup
13:36.39archivistthey are evil on some of their tests
13:36.40``Erikof course, I have fits of stupid where I like to toe off, then go into second and open it up
13:36.44``Erik:)
13:37.10claymoreof course :)
13:37.24archivistI have seen the latest tests more fun to come :)
13:37.45``ErikI saw a new m3 yesterday, I don't like the shape, but it was worth notice
13:37.45claymorebah, all i get is second hand Top Gear... hard to find on the stations over here :/
13:38.00``Erikbbc plays 'em often, comcrap carries it on 114 or something
13:38.08``Erikif you have the digital package
13:38.17claymoreits the timing of the shows that gets me.
13:38.35claymoreand their 'onDemand' offerings are slim and change too often.
13:38.41``ErikI'm awfully tempted to be a tivo or something up that alley
13:38.44``Erikbuy
13:38.58``Erikmebbe rig a mythtv set
13:38.58archivisthehe live in England, get it on Sunday evening first showing
13:39.21``Erikhey, archivist, when does the new robin hood start up again?
13:39.22claymoreTop Gear is good, but not *that* good ;)
13:39.36``ErikI enjoyed that show
13:39.49archivistno idea ``Erik not something I bother watching
13:40.18``Erikah, they had an awfully decent take on it, it wasn't completely glorified, but it was still kid lgoves stuff
13:40.59``Erikpersonally, I'm apt to look for a darker meaner version, but *shrug* that's just me :) this went towards that direction
13:41.14``ErikI liked 'firefly' a lot, that one had a lot of grim aspects, I think
13:41.45``Erikheh, and I have voltaires candide on my bookshelf. W00t.
13:42.35``Erikit is... the best of all possible worlds
13:44.38claymorebeen reading a *lot* of books recently.... have been re-evaluating my opinions on a bunch of books.
13:44.48``Erikoh?
13:45.15``ErikI've mostly been re-reading niven lately, though I have an urge to pull up like my cervantes and stuff
13:45.28claymoreAnne McCaffery's Pern series is not as good as I thought it was ('cept the first one .. still amazing)
13:45.30``ErikI mean, uh, I'm illiterate
13:45.46``ErikI never got into pern, my dad was a huge fan, but I just couldn't groove to it
13:46.03``Eriktell ya what, though, robert aspirin, effin' brilliant, the myth series, awesome
13:46.17claymoreTolkien has quite a few inconsistancies and so does C.S. Lewis. :/
13:46.22``Erikon par with doug adams, but without the geek worship
13:46.54``ErikI think my next big endeavor is going to be partchets discworld series
13:47.02claymoreDouglas Adams.... I found midly amusing... but not "simply amazing" as many I have spoke to referred to it.
13:47.15``Erikhis stuff was fun, not serious
13:47.35``Erikthe latest movie wasn't that bad
13:47.45``Erikjust don't expect too much :D it's fun camp shit
13:47.54claymorePratchetts Discworld stuff is pretty good.  Its definetly up my alley, humorwise.
13:48.19``Erikheh, "make a man a fire, eh's warm for the night, set a man on fire, he's warm for the rest of his life" O.o
13:48.20``Erikgrim
13:48.32claymoreBeen on the fence about that movie... dunno yet.
13:48.53claymoregrim?  Nah, hilarious!  Makes for a funny visual.
13:49.10``ErikI don't think the movie did any serious injustice to the books... not anywhere close to other adaptations
13:50.02``Erikheh, slashdot just had an article about torture in video games, I felt an urge to email an 'amen, brother' :/
13:50.06claymoreI think they are making movies out of a select few of Pratchetts works.
13:50.41``Erikpartchet and niven both comment publically about people wanting to make movies of their seminal works
13:50.51``Erikpratchet, even
13:51.01``Erikplus another t
13:51.25claymoreI have seen Hog Father, and that was *okay*, but no where near as funny as Thud (which I wish they would make a movie out of)
13:51.42``ErikI'd love to see a ringworld movie, I think the tech is just getting there, but the audience may not appreciate it all... I d'no pratchetts work, so I can't comment on that
13:52.08claymoreI have Thud on audiobook CD and you can borrow it anytime.
13:52.31``Erikhrm, might be worth shoving the disc loader back in my car :)
13:53.10``Erikif you haven't checked out aspirins books, do it... it's good
13:53.33*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14CDEC.dip.t-dialin.net)
13:53.43``Erikhe did two big chains, the 'myth' series which is fantasy, and somethin's mercenaryies, which is very scifi tech
13:54.06``ErikI intend to purchase his full set
13:54.48``Erikit's goofy, but it's fun :)
13:54.59clock_is also goofy
13:55.27``ErikI think if you appreciate monty python, you'll get a kick out of aspirins stuff
13:55.33``Erikhi, karel :)
13:55.54clock_``Erik: hi :)
13:55.57claymoreWell then, I will check it out sometime.  Need to see if its on Audiobook :)
13:57.53claymore``Erik: Whats the best way you have found to quickyl serialize simple structs in C?  memcpy?
13:57.56``ErikCLOCK! I want better animation shit, I started a procdb for metaball animation, tell me what needs to be awesome, or give me patches of awesome :D
13:58.08``Erikum, look up "swizzle", claymore
13:58.39clock_what is metaball?
13:58.59``Erikgloppy surface things
13:59.17``Erikhttp://www.petrileskinen.fi/Actionscript/MetaballPreview.jpg
14:00.21``Erikclaymore: if pointers are involved, it gets complex fast. if it's a very linear struct, you can just dump it (though doing ntohl/htonl stuff is better)
14:00.55``Erikif it goes into a .g, it NEEDS to be endian agnostic.
14:01.05claymoreright, I was looking at the same concepts earlier... didn't know it had such a flamboyant name though :)
14:01.40``Erikthat's why ya need high tech folk like me, who are more on the ivory tower side than anyhting else :D
14:01.56claymore``Erik: endian agnostic... isnt any given bit arrayyy either big or little?  or is there some other endian i don't know about?
14:02.10``Erikther'es middle endian that hasn't been used in 3 decades
14:02.25``Erikand who knows what the future will bring
14:02.42clock_``Erik: do you mean PDP endian?
14:02.45``Erikyeah
14:02.47clock_1 3 2 4 or how it was?
14:02.57``Erik18b, strip teh front and back for the core
14:03.04clock_lol
14:03.10clock_and 9 bit char
14:03.40``Erikbut you don't know what the future will bring
14:03.50``Erikso don't plan around your assumpetions, be versatile
14:04.56claymore``Erik: yeah, trying that.  Which is why I am looking at a stream solution.
14:05.13``Erikjava's serialize does that for you, it's nice
14:05.22``Erikc/c++ makes you do that by hand
14:05.44claymoreI know :)  I found a C++ implementation of java.io residing in Beecrypt (SF project)
14:05.51clock_A portable program should run also on analog computers
14:06.02``Erikin the C world, we generally talk bits and bytes, it's obscenely manual... c++ might try to hide that, but it may be a red herring
14:06.21clock_Does BRL-CAD run on analog computers?
14:06.29``Erikdoubt it
14:06.48clock_Why is it platform-specific then?
14:06.49``Erikwe demand posix plus some
14:08.00``Erikif you whine about a single amchine that just plain doesn't matter, y'know, go fuck off, ... ;0
14:08.02``Erik:)
14:08.19``ErikI have other crap to deal with
14:08.29``Erikknow what I mean, vern?
14:08.32claymoreI dunt think analog computers have too much of a use nowadays.  Some, but very little in comparision :/
14:08.42clock_``Erik: now you are quoting Theo de Raadt aren't you?"
14:08.57clock_everyone has one analog computer in his head. I think they matter a lot
14:09.07claymoreheh.
14:09.11``Erikdid theo say that? I thought I was quoting ernest from the 80's
14:09.29clock_It sounds so rude that it fits Theo's anankastic personality
14:09.38``Erikyes, theo is a dick
14:09.57clock_I think if Theo went to a psychiatrist, the psychiatrist would just jump out of the window without a word.
14:10.01``ErikI'm willing to be a dick, not quite as far as theo, but *shrug*
14:10.42``Erikit may be rude, but seriously, where is the analog computer install base? are the interested in BRL-CAD?
14:11.52clock_Is analog and digitall the only types of computer that exist? Or is there still something else?
14:12.24``Eriktell me where BRL-CAD doesn't work.
14:12.43clock_I meant it as a theoretical excursion :)
14:12.58clock_``Erik: actually yes! On ZX Spectrum!
14:13.01``Erikyeah, well, this isn't a theorical issue, this is an engineering issue
14:13.15``Erikheh, no one uses z80 anymore
14:13.22clock_I find analogue computers somehow elegant and interesting
14:13.40``Erikthe russian trinary computer was interesting, but it failed
14:13.56archivistI have a Z80 in circuit emulator
14:14.21``Erikthe i386 sucks goat balls, but that's what we have, unfortunately
14:14.30claymorethey're great for electrical and mechanical system calibration and testing... but outside of that...*shrugs*
14:14.42``Erikthe mac I'm using right now uses this crap chip
14:15.02clock_The Zilog Z80 has long been a popular microprocessor in embedded systems and       microcontroller cores, where it remains in widespread use today.
14:15.48``ErikI loved the g4 and g5.. even the g3... but *shrug* my mac uses an x86, every winderz box uses an x86, ibm is dropping their high performance ppc for winderz chips
14:16.09clock_but actually the ternary computer is another interesting idea
14:16.25``Erikembedded machines seem to be shifting towards x86
14:16.27clock_The analog computers were built usually with opamps right?
14:16.37``Erikit's really effin' sad, it's such a feeble arch
14:16.58``ErikI don't like this, you're making me angry by making me admit it :(
14:17.00claymoreopamps later in 'life' but tubes prior to that.
14:17.14clock_I wonder what if someone built an analog computer full of microwave amplifiers mixers multipliers and lots of them
14:17.21clock_Could it perform some tasks fast?
14:17.34``Erikeniac was a gymnasium sized room full of tubes
14:17.42clock_it was digital?
14:17.48``Eriksorta kinda
14:17.52clock_:)
14:18.03``Erikeniac was decimal digital
14:18.12claymore``Erik: Wasn't the largest source of grief for Apple computer buyers the price?  As I remeber it, Apple dropped motorola's PPC in lieu of the x86 architecture for mainly the cost savings...
14:18.18clock_analog is fun a simple element can have a tremendous computational power
14:18.18``Erikand brliac was decimal digital, too
14:18.32``Erikand later used "kings own"
14:18.47``Erikthatwas the sattement, claymore, I don't buy it
14:19.18claymoreproblem with analog is that it is uber sensitive to drift in the components.  Once an analog computer reaches a certain size/complexity, it would be spending more time down being calibrated that it would be spending being useful...
14:19.33``Erik*shrug* my laptop runs firefox, Xterm, and wow... it's all good :)
14:19.45clock_how would a firefox look on an analog computer?
14:19.54``Erikblurry
14:19.55clock_If you sneeze at it, the HTML elements wave around the screen?
14:20.02clock_with ghosts in the picture
14:20.12clock_can you adjust the antenna? I can't read this table ;-)
14:20.19clock_Analog stuff has LIFE!
14:20.31``ErikI almost vomitted from laughing, stop that shit
14:20.58clock_and xterm...
14:21.13``ErikI live in an xterm
14:21.15clock_adjusting a sync knob until the commands stop cycling around the screen
14:21.37clock_we have analog computers in our heads why do we build cold lifeless digital computers?
14:21.58``Erikbecause boolean algebra is clean
14:22.41``Erikwe have the notions of "yes" and "no" in our heads
14:22.44claymoredigital = faster :)
14:22.50clock_we have emotions
14:23.01clock_I think that's because computers were designed by people who are not very good in emotions :)
14:23.09``ErikYOU may have emotions, I'm far more efficient :D
14:23.16claymorea digital computer can execute the crappy code we write in nanoseconds, yet it takes us hours/days to debug :)
14:23.31claymoreskynet = computer + emotions.
14:23.33claymoreno thanks.
14:23.43``Erikbut then arnie won't come visit :(
14:23.47clock_inserts a PCB labeled "Firefox"into his
14:23.57clock_<PROTECTED>
14:24.22claymoreI'll take the Terminatrix in lieu of the Governator.
14:24.31clock_imagine you have signal and you want to determine if it's 1MHz or 10 MHz
14:24.46clock_With a digital computer you would need a powerful MCU, sample the signal and do some mathematics
14:25.03``Erikok, clock, build me a powerful analog computer
14:25.04clock_With analog computer you just hook a gate, diode, capacitor and resistor and get the answer immediately with almost no power requirements!
14:25.16claymorenah, I'll just use the PCI mounted O-Scope/multimeter.  Done.
14:25.20``ErikI don't even want possession, just a shell
14:25.21clock_lol
14:25.23``Erikmake it
14:25.25clock_rack mounted :)
14:25.46claymoreErik in the Shell ... a new Manga.
14:25.50``Erikit took me a while to grok why gate propogation time is important
14:26.05``Erikand why 74xx series chips were useful at all
14:26.10``Erikbecause I kept thinking analog
14:26.14``Erikbut they ARE useful
14:26.28claymorelol, yes, having a ff's failing to trip is usually a bad thing.
14:26.41``Eriker, why use an 'or' ttl when you can just plug two wires onto the same bar?
14:26.44``ErikO.o
14:26.51claymorehahahaha
14:27.07``Erikwell, that's the fucking issue
14:27.11clock_``Erik: to satisfy the EE professor?
14:27.22claymore"Lets see how this IC reacts when I hit the output with 5.5v of reverse voltage..."
14:27.25clock_``Erik: if you would see my electronics design, you would stop laughing
14:27.29``Erikat the time, yes, but then I got the notion of stateful holding
14:27.49clock_15 HC gates in parallel driving a power LED, with their power being regulated in an analog way through a feedback transistor...
14:28.00``Erikthere're lots of places where it makes sense to go stateless holding, but sometimes, you NEED that ttl shit
14:28.04clock_Signal processing from diodes capacitors resistors and Schmitt gates
14:28.24claymore's favorite EE term is Schmitt.
14:28.29claymore:D
14:28.32clock_Shit trigger is a great thing
14:28.37``Erikpiece of schmitt
14:28.43clock_:D
14:28.52claymoreWas the core of *MANY* jokes on the boat.
14:29.20``Erikfor those who don't know, claymore was tube sperm, enlisted on a sub
14:29.21``Erik:)
14:29.44claymore"Stick your head in there and check the doping of the Shmitt will ya? "   - "Screw you!"  :D
14:29.45clock_what is tube sperm and what is a sub?
14:30.19``Eriksubmarine, adn tube sperm is a derogary term for the folk serving
14:30.22claymoreBubblehead, Tuber, Subhuman.... yeah heard em all :D
14:31.05``ErikI still like tube sperm :)
14:31.25``Eriksorry, my dad was a jet mech on a carrier
14:31.33``ErikI grey up on navy towns
14:31.34``Erik:)
14:31.36``Erikgrew
14:31.57claymoreand that means he was a Surface Jerk and served on a Target :)
14:32.13``Erikhehehe, well, he ain't got shot at
14:32.27clock_what happens when you breathe all the air on the sub?
14:32.29claymorewas death from below!
14:32.32clock_Then you start breathing water?
14:32.32``Erikgood for me, he lived to donate for my existance
14:33.01claymoreIts a requirement for all US Navy submariners to have gills and be able to stay underwater > 6 hours.
14:33.02``Erikthey hug their chest and pray that the bends doesn't take them
14:33.19claymore:D
14:34.08claymoreReal answer:  There are O2 generators, CO2 scrubbers and CO burners that replenish the atomosphere.
14:34.09``Erikand, uh, vc aint no plain suface ship, it's got a flee to unfuck it
14:34.47claymorevc = ??
14:34.51``Erikif a vc goes down, it was an epic fleet fail
14:35.00``Erikfleet carrier
14:35.06clock_electronic warfare mast what can it be?
14:35.09claymoreah, cv/cvn
14:35.10claymoreokay
14:35.12clock_TV antenna for long winter nights?
14:35.36``Erikcv, yes, I was backwards
14:35.59claymoreSubrock >> cvn... but they won't let use us em any more :(
14:36.01``ErikI'm sure all my fathers servies were cvn
14:36.06clock_CO burners? Do you cook on town gas down there?
14:37.11claymoreyes, we take 100+ km hoses with us.
14:37.22claymore:D
14:37.38``Erikman, the riptide really fucks your duty on that
14:38.05clock_Reactor sizes range up to 550 MW
14:38.11clock_Hehe how many seconds from 0 to 100?
14:38.12claymoreYeah, it sucks really bad when the OOD turns the boat too quick and cuts the gasline with the screw.  Cold cuts for the rest of the deployment :/
14:38.36claymoreclock_: Procedureally, about 5-10 minutes.
14:38.45``Erikthere's no way he can answer you honest on that, clock
14:38.59claymoreif there is badness happening < 1 microsecond :)
14:39.29``Erikmilitary capibility tends to be an awful secret thing, don't evne ask
14:39.57claymore``Erik: Thats kinda true, but since it's not like pushing the 'reactor gas pedal' down and watching the boat accellerate, then the question is vauge at best.
14:40.18``Eriklet it float, dude
14:40.39claymorethe exact specifics are classified, but you can get the basic, and even advanced concepts of Pressurized Water Reactor theory on the web.
14:40.56claymore``Erik: thats what we do with the contents of our San Tanks :)  
14:41.12``Erik'cept when you dump over my planets, bitch
14:41.32claymorelol
14:41.41claymoresorry bout that.
14:42.00``ErikI"m sure I'd crush you on fenix, so it's all good
14:42.25claymoreIts impossible to defeat a foe that isn't there though :/
14:42.37``Erikwhen ya get there... :D
14:42.48claymoreclock_: Nuklar Power fer Dummies:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressurized_water_reactor
14:42.51``ErikI'm pissed off, wow isn't live
14:43.32``Erikdid you read up on the story about tamm, claymore?
14:43.33claymorethat does suck.  Today is a good MMO day.
14:43.43claymorelinkage?
14:43.49``Erikum, was on smacksnot
14:44.08``Erikthe dude who leaekd the illegal nsa tapping
14:44.35claymoreno, missed that.
14:44.51``Erikhttp://www.newsweek.com/id/174601/page/1
14:45.42``Erikhttp://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/15/1851212'
14:45.55``Eriksans the quote mark at the end
14:45.57claymoreyeah, I heard about that.
14:46.10``Erikdisturbing stuff
14:46.17claymorehe had no business blowing the whistle and should be locked up imo.
14:46.35``ErikI disagree
14:46.47``Erik*shrug*
14:47.21claymoreWell, the way I see it, there are two completely seperate issues. 1) Illegal Activities by the Gov.  2) Divulging Government Secrets.
14:47.55claymoreHe was right and wrong.
14:47.58``Erikyes, I believe that illegal gov't actities forgoe and protection
14:48.08``Erikany
14:48.13claymorethe gov also was right and wrong.
14:48.27``Erikit's a huge risk to publicise them
14:48.29claymorethe Gov had the protection of the people in mind, but went about it the wrong way.
14:48.42``ErikI don't know if I agree with that
14:48.50claymoreTamm saw an illegal activity in progress, but went about addressing it wrong.
14:49.30``ErikI think mebbe the administration thought that may've had the right notion, but they sure didn't do it right
14:49.45claymoreThe american government isn't full of angels, nor is it this horrible, completely corrupt thing.
14:50.10``ErikI think I'd rather be subject to possibly foreign assault than gauranteed assault by those supposed to be protecting me
14:50.28``Erik*shrug*
14:50.36claymoreAnyone who thinks that the illegal wire taps were done for the sole purpose of 'personal gain' on a government offical's part... is, well, an idiot.
14:51.19``Eriknot personal gain, but it's an extension of an organizaions ability into previously illegal areas
14:51.24claymoreYou are correct in that the Bush Administration had the people's safety at heart, but again, not all of the administration are angles, nor corrupt.
14:51.43claymoreOh I agree 100%.  It was an illegal act.
14:51.55``ErikI'm sure they think they are working towards what they think is a safer situation, but they are curb stomping protections of americans
14:52.05claymoreBut then again, us civies probably hear about 1-2% of the covert operations that actualyl take place.
14:52.35``Erikif that much, ... I'm not saying it doens't ahppen, I'm saying it's wrong :)
14:52.55``ErikI mean, look at the deep throat sitaution
14:53.12``Erikthat was peanuts compared to what's going on now
14:53.19``Erikbut it was huge
14:53.19claymoreHeh, then there is the whole ethical issue:  Is something considered wrong if no one knows about it?  
14:53.22claymoretrue.
14:54.06``ErikI feel compelled to not condone or respect that crap that's being accepted now, it's illegal and abusive
14:54.09``Erik*shrug*
14:54.11claymoreMy personal take is that all great nations fall, history repeats, but for us, I think we are going to tear ourselves apart.  Not from an external source.
14:54.43``Erikyeah, I'd kinda like the system to work at least as long for me and my children to die before it fails
14:55.00``ErikI think bush et al is making that all happen far to soon
14:55.12claymoreI kinda see it as a parallel to the whole justice premise: "7 guilty men go free before 1 innocent man is locked up"
14:55.48claymoreMany many people would rather choose to have more planes rammed into buildings and buildings blown up before they give a little on their personal freedoms.
14:56.27``Erikin most of the US, the guilty dude is still around to sue for his innocence, texan/bush philosophy advocates state murder O.o
14:56.30claymorebah, Bush is just the front man.  The real people calling the shots are not well known :/
14:56.40``Erikyeah, I agree
14:56.46``Erikbut he IS the front man
14:56.50``Erikso we can slap a name on him
14:57.46claymoreResponsible, yes.  The person accountable for the govs actions... probably not.  I honestly don't think he is *that* smart/stupid.  "Just sign here Mr President..."
14:57.47``ErikI think cheney and snow and them have done far more evil, but *shrug* they're not the one with the title
14:58.46``Erik<-- sure hopes shit changes come feb, might be looking for a new country to live in otherwise
14:59.03``Erik:)
14:59.10claymoreAnyways, as for the Tamm thing, illegal or not, State secrets are still State secrets.  If he is let off, then it sends the message that "its okay to divulge secrets, given the situation."
14:59.29claymoreand *that* will start the down ward spiral :/
14:59.50``Erikyeah, he broke the low, the question is wether it was acceptable... probably not, but it was something that NEEDED to be leaked, I'd imagine
14:59.53``ErikI d'no
15:00.09claymoreYeah, tough ethics question... good case study actually :)
15:00.20claymoreBoth he and the Gov need to be put on trial.
15:00.58``Erikwere I on the panel, I'd probably claim him a patriot and be aggressive against the gov't
15:01.12``Erikbut I have my own bias here :)
15:01.25claymoreI think if the illegal taps were an isolated incident, I wouldn't be so worried.
15:01.40claymoreHeh, well that all depends on your view of patriot then doesn't it?
15:02.08claymoreBecause it could just as easily be said that he was a traitor and endangereg hundreds or thousands of American's lives
15:02.09``ErikI like to note that in the 1700's, there were a bunch of terrorists that were doing insane things like isolated bullets from teh woods and no fair fights... that was the revolutionary war
15:02.23claymoreyeah, i love that parallel :)
15:02.36``Erikwe exist as a country pretty much because of the thing we're fighting right now
15:02.50claymoreBritan got whooped because they would'nt change military tactics.
15:03.12claymoreAnd as you said, here we are 'not stooping to their level' to bring the fight to them.  heh.
15:03.38``Erikfranky, I say lets walk away from the middle east, let israel get curb stomped, ... whatever *shrug*
15:03.46claymoreamen.
15:04.16``Erikevery war isreal has been in, the US has done logistics for them... logistics is 90% of a war
15:04.17claymoreBuild more nuklar powerplants, pour $ into electric motor research and give OPEC the middle finger.
15:04.19``Eriker, wtf?
15:05.04``Erikwaits for dudes in black suites to show up O.o
15:05.21claymoreI say drop about 10-20 c-130's worth of guns and munitions inbetween Israel and the gaza strip and let them finish it...
15:05.37claymorebut then again, its not our fight, and if it weren't for (mainly) oil, we could care less.
15:06.00``ErikI d'no, it confuses me
15:06.09``Erikespecially with shit like the uss liberty
15:06.19``Erikisrael napalmed a US ship
15:06.21``Erikwtf?
15:06.40claymoreNothing is black and white...
15:06.49``Erikhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
15:07.09``Erikyeah, but if you have fighter doing flybys and thumbs up, then turning and dumping munitions
15:07.12``Erikthat's effed up
15:08.11claymoreTrue.  But the whole nature of napalm is effed up too.
15:08.49``Erik*shrug* hostilities are messed up, why can't we all just get along?
15:08.50claymoreThe Trojan horse is still a valid tactic.  Non american ships fly american flags all the time
15:09.05``Erikyeah,and american ships fly nonamerican flags
15:09.21claymorepppft, no, we dont do that! :D
15:09.38``Erikthe issue with the liberty is that there was close fly confrimation, then assault
15:10.07claymorelike I said, its rpobably not as black and white as that :/
15:10.32``Erik*shrug* mebbe not, but how would you feel in that situation?
15:11.19``Erikplane flies by, waving and stuff, it's all cool, it turns back and... well... starts dumping aoe killers on you?
15:11.44claymoredepends on who i was.  Am I the arrogant Israeli commander ordering the attack that would look foolish infront of his subordinates?  Am I the Israeli pilot who didn't have to deploy the weapons?
15:12.03claymoreAm I the Sailor caught by the most lethal of weapons:  surprize?
15:12.09claymoreetc
15:12.11``Erikyeah *shrug*
15:12.39``ErikI'd still be awfully carefuly if I were deploying lethal weapons
15:12.46claymoreIt would be nice to draw a line and state 'Good Guys and Bad Guys'... makes things easier.
15:13.09``Erikthat was the thing, there WAS that line drawn
15:13.28``Erikthis was a ship flying US colors, with american lookin' folk on it..
15:13.59``Erikand it was confirmed friendly, then turned around and attacked
15:14.01``Erikwtff?
15:15.49``ErikI d'no, it seems weird to me, but *shrug* I d'no, mistakes are made
15:17.58``ErikI mean, if you ran surface, american flag, american vessel... flyby si all grins at you, then turn around and start dumping shit on you, uh, is that not a wtf?
15:19.30brlcadclaymore: you should also take a look at the basic serialization routines that libbu provides (which librt uses to serialize data to .g files) - includes floating points type serialization (for non-ieee formats)
15:19.40claymoresounds like a similar ethical/moral choice that Tamm.  I don't envy that pilot at all.
15:20.05claymoreHEY get that Ontopic relatied stuff outta here!
15:20.17``Erikno, libbu dont' give free endian trnaslation
15:20.19``Erik:(
15:20.37``Erikthere are functions to handle that, but it's not free
15:21.05brlcadfree?
15:21.19``Erikyou have to make the function call
15:21.41``Erikyou can't say "save this" and have it all happen
15:22.12brlcadsure, not arguing that -- just wondering where the "no, libbu dont'" comes from..
15:22.21brlcaddidn't say it was free
15:22.35brlcadsaid there are basic routines to help
15:22.49``Erikyou have to understand when to call the func, and then actually do it
15:23.03``Erikhtat's my argument
15:23.11brlcadwho are you arguing with? :)
15:23.27``Erikmyself, apparently
15:23.30brlcadthe goods are in htond.c htonf.c endian.c
15:23.55``Erikthere ain't no magic, that's wht I argue
16:15.34claymorewow up yet?
16:21.18claymorebrlcad: Thanks for the tip!
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17:00.42CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33381 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/tankwizardIA.tcl: Removed tankwizardIA.tcl
17:06.00*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
17:18.40CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33382 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/xdr.c: fix typo in comment, these are alternates for the bsd [hn]to[nh][sl] byteorder routines.
17:22.51CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33383 10/brlcad/trunk/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/Makefile.am: tankwizard was renamed sans IA suffix, fix distcheck
17:45.06*** join/#brlcad Ralith_ (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
17:48.44CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33384 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/typein.c: Mods to keep variable declarations at the top of the block.
18:32.21CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33385 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/libged/libged.vcproj: Added tire to libged build on Windows.
18:40.29CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33386 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: Added code to install the Tank and Tire wizards.
18:49.48CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33387 10/brlcad/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): more repairs to the build, have to rename directories with a Makefile.am in configure.ac too, remove the IA.
18:53.08*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-58-239-136.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:10.33brlcadclaymore: brlcad.org/~sean/tmp/ByteBag.cpp and ByteBag.hpp
20:42.47*** join/#brlcad kanzure_ (n=bryan@user-0vvd95g.cable.mindspring.com)
20:43.03kanzure_Hrm, so oed wants me to draw something first before I can use it. But what if I wanted to use the oed command from the shell?
20:43.13kanzure_(without drawing)
20:44.25kanzure_Ah, maybe this is doing the trick: "mged -c blah \"draw test3.r ; oed / /test.r/thing.s\"".
20:44.52*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.141.158)
21:00.14*** join/#brlcad WhiteCalf (i=WhiteCal@whitecalf.net)
21:03.34*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
21:17.33*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=WarLock@bas2-sudbury98-1177879464.dsl.bell.ca)
21:18.17IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/tty.png  :)
21:19.39IriX64i know it's off topic, but it's a good chuckle :)
21:26.05madantdidn't get it :(
21:26.53*** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14CDEC.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:27.08IriX64windows is usefull, it can build gcc :)
21:27.54madantmore like gcc is awesome can "even" work with windows :P
21:28.12IriX64we'll see if they coperate
21:28.19IriX64cooperate too
21:34.36louipchow does windows build gcc? o.O
21:35.04archivistsee djgpp the work is done for you
21:36.40archivistor join the djgpp project and move it on to 64 bit
21:38.15IriX64it's tied to the hippo :)
21:39.06IriX64on a serious note if i download and install tcl/tk 8.5.5 on my system can i cut the build time of brl-cad?
21:39.45louipcof course
21:39.55madantconsidering the fact that tcl-tk build takes quite a large portion of the build time
21:39.56louipcI find opennurbs is the killer one
21:40.03IriX64so itll hunt and find them?
21:40.11madantI think more than half is opennurbs
21:40.17IriX64i see thanks
21:40.52IriX64is it the same tcl though, or does yours have stuff theirs doen't
21:42.02louipcI should probably just disable opennurbs for my own builds
21:42.22IriX64--without-opennurbs?
21:42.28louipcsomething like that
21:42.40louipcsee ./configure --help
21:42.46IriX64never tried, i usually --enable-everything
21:45.11IriX64a lot of options, some seem arcane :)
21:46.21louipc--disable-opennurbs
21:46.34IriX64thanks
21:47.18louipcnot really arcane, just a little inconsistent I guess eh?
21:47.26IriX64heh, yea
21:47.45IriX64ill look again, when this things finished churning
22:39.40*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@91.102.231.33)
23:26.20brlcadhey madant
23:26.27brlcadltns, how's it going?
23:26.59madanthi :)
23:27.07brlcadlouipc: inconsistent how?
23:27.13madantsorry about the disappearance :)
23:28.10brlcadit's okay, it's been quite a busy winter thusfar still
23:28.36madant:) i still have to check out mafm's interface
23:29.22madantHow's the geometry engine coming up
23:29.58louipcbrlcad: there's too many aliases, so a configure commands could be extremely varied
23:30.30mafmmy interface is very shy!
23:30.49madant:D
23:31.16madantI am quite sure that lots of people like shyness :P
23:31.19louipcmafm: do you have a screenie?
23:32.33brlcadmadant: slowly as of late (at least visible progress) .. trying to get the guy working on the geometry service to commit more frequently (hint-hint), but mged->libged refactoring is just about complete
23:32.39brlcadslowly but steadily
23:32.43mafmlouipc: http://bzflag.org/~mafm/g3d-screenshots/
23:32.47madantwas just heading out to run my 5km @ 5am.. terrible at it :( 25 minutes
23:33.18louipcmafm: cool thanks
23:33.40madantmafm: i like grey.. the violet not so much :)
23:34.23brlcadmafm: you know that you're user page now comes up as the 9th highest rank if you search for "rbgui"? :)
23:34.26madantbrlcad: it is a big job anyways :)
23:35.02brlcadmadant: yeah, it is -- about three staff years of time in all I estimated over a year ago
23:35.08mafmthat's because of google's pagerank, because brlcad is so famous :P
23:35.12brlcadwe're more than halfway into it
23:35.13madantfirst time I heard righ brain games gui from mafm i though WTF :D
23:35.53mafmwell, there are no many alternatives, outside CEGUI
23:36.03louipchehe
23:37.11madant:) ok be right back after i hopefully improve my run :)
23:38.37mafmand rbgui is very slick compared to CEGUI
23:38.57mafmit seems on a dead end (maintenance), but well...
23:40.46Ralithit's not like we can't take over if it works well
23:42.05mafmit's a bit primitive, but well :)
23:50.12Ralithmafm, what's that 'camera' subwindow for?
23:51.37mafmit's a test to create a widget, IIRC
23:51.43Ralithoh ok
23:52.02mafmbesides that, you can move the camera with those buttons
23:52.03RalithI was worried it was supposed to be a useful interface
23:52.15mafmthe round thingy is to center, the rest to move and zoom
23:52.45Ralith'cuz really you'd want all that to be done with single-key shortcuts
23:54.29RalithI'd imagine you'd only need an actual GUI for explicitly setting values
23:54.53mafmfor the camera? everything works with keystrokes, yes
23:55.25mafmit was brlcad who asked me to create a test widget as part of the project, to test the suitability of RBGui to the task, or something to that effect
23:56.09Ralithseems like a fairly straightforward grid layout
23:58.00mafmthe simple but especialized widgets are the ones of "rotations"
23:58.27Ralith?
23:58.46Ralithwhat are those?
23:58.56Ralithisn't sure what to make of the bars of color
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081217

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081217

00:01.26brlcadis to blame
00:03.05Ralithblames brlcad
00:03.16Ralithso what are they?
00:03.55brlcadit looks like we very likely may end up adopting maintenance of a gui toolkit (whether it be rbgui, cegui, llmozlib, fork of blender's, whatever) to have something maintainable that will serve the long-term design criteria
00:04.24Ralithblender's GUI is libifyable?
00:04.30Ralith'cuz they have a *very* nice GUI, iirc.
00:04.42Ralith(at least, I liked it)
00:04.44brlcadany code is libifyable
00:04.54Ralithlibifyable for sane effort, that is
00:05.48brlcadgiven the scope and goals of the task, with one of the viable options being the near rewrite or unfinished implementation of one of the alternatives, a major refactoring becomes sane
00:06.57Ralithfair.
00:08.57brlcadas for "bars of color", don't know what you were referring to
00:09.21Ralithhttp://bzflag.org/~mafm/g3d-screenshots/brlcad_rbgui_20080824-1.png
00:09.32Ralithbelow the X/Y/Z rot numbers
00:10.33brlcadoh
00:11.02brlcadjust guessing, but looks like progress bars representing the numeric 0->360 rotation value
00:11.29Ralithah.
00:11.49Ralithin that case I'm still a bit confused as to what that dialog is testing
00:13.21brlcadI think conceptually, it was more just visual placement of items to test that rbgui could even do the basics
00:13.27mafmsorry for the delay Ralith
00:13.33Ralithno worries
00:13.35mafmyes, those are the things
00:13.36brlcadpop up a window with buttons, sliders and events, invoke actions, etc
00:13.55Raliththat seemed odd to me 'cuz of all the earlier screenshots showing more advanced tests
00:14.25brlcadRalith: have you seen the IOE prototype?  that has several design criteria that are very relevant for the new gui design
00:14.41RalithI watched a bit of the presentation video
00:14.45brlcadk
00:15.01mafmthey're RBGui::Widgets, specialized for the task (albeit very simple)
00:15.09mafmso if a text widget has setText, etc
00:15.33mafmthese ones have the "setProgress" and "setLabel" and so on
00:15.46mafmso you can put that as a widget in any part, not having to create it anew
00:16.24mafmthat's like creating a dialog window to be used in many places of the program, provided that the toolkit doesn't already provide one
00:16.37Ralithbrlcad, seems like a  nice set of concepts, but pretty divergent from standard paradigms
00:16.44Raliththen again, what 3D modeler isn't?
00:17.00mafmso it's not testing advanced features, it's just extending a widget to create a simple one
00:18.53Ralithhmm
00:20.18RalithI wonder if blender could actually be easily extended to interact with the geometry service itself
00:21.00RalithI suppose it's a bit focused upon mesh modeling for that to be entirely appropriate. Still, interesting thought.
00:23.34mafmbtw brlcad, there's a new GUI on the block
00:24.09mafmalthought quite new and still has to prove that it's worthy
00:24.19mafmosgWidgets, from OpenSceneGraph
00:24.48brlcadmafm: there's more than one
00:25.02brlcadI was just about to mention/remind the one I saw at siggraph this year
00:25.09brlcadfrom one of the g3d developers
00:25.17brlcad(the graphics engine) ;)
00:25.38brlcadhttp://graphics.cs.williams.edu/papers/GuiUniversalSIGGRAPH08/gui-poster.pdf
00:25.38mafmGNU 3D? :)
00:26.42brlcadhttp://graphics.cs.williams.edu/papers/GuiUniversalSIGGRAPH08/
00:27.32Ralithoh hey
00:27.35Ralithnow that's a neat concept
00:27.36brlcadfigure 2 is a nice collage of the various features
00:28.16RalithI want to play with this now
00:28.17brlcadthe developer that worked on that is morgan mcguire, the code is bsd licensed
00:28.30Ralithyay!
00:28.45brlcadhe said he thinks it'd take about a month for someone to port it to ogre
00:28.54brlcad(knowing nothing)
00:29.11Ralithoh right ogre
00:29.12Ralithdamn
00:29.31brlcadit's already in the g3d engine, you can play with it there
00:30.18Raliththink that might be a viable ogre alternative long-term?
00:30.43brlcadnot really
00:30.51brlcadogre still has *way* more momentum and activity
00:30.54Ralithwhy's that?
00:31.17Ralithhm, scope is a bit large
00:32.22mafmWTH is universal pointer pattern? :)
00:33.11Ralithmafm, it's explained; seems to mean that you bind widgets directly to vars
00:33.31mafmyes, but it's such a new pattern that google doesn't know about it
00:33.42mafmI need to find a new oracle :)
00:34.29madantis still a 6 minute miler :(
00:35.01louipcthat's decent
00:36.15louipcwow the world record is down to 3:43
00:36.26brlcadthat's just his fangled name for a concept that's been around for a while (though I forget the other names it goes by)
00:36.39brlcadyou can do the same thing in tk actually, aqua too
00:38.13madantlouipc: i think 5km in 12.37 minutes is even more freaky
00:38.45louipcoh yea
00:47.37mafmso what's the plan brlcad, test that one also?
00:47.44mafmit's separated in a lib already?
00:48.24madanttoo thinks Morgan McGuire's idea is neat
00:48.36Ralithdoesn't make a good GUI alone though
00:51.38madantthis work of mcguire looks neat too :) http://graphics.cs.williams.edu/projects/YangFan/about.html
00:51.55brlcadmafm: I think it would be good for someone(tm) should test that one out -- especially if it really is just a month's work to port it on over
00:52.08RalithI still like the idea of Blender's GUI; it's had a lot of refinement for use with a similar set of requirements
00:52.33brlcadbut sorting out the gui is still secondary to completing the gui infrastructure and engine/service work
00:52.52Ralithgui infrastructure?
00:53.06Ralith'course, no point having a shiny GUI without the geometry service to back it
00:53.32madantnods with Ralith
00:55.16brlcadRalith: basic classes in place to support managing a graphics context, the input controls for manipulation, how key bindings are managed, displaying "panels" and tabs of information, etc
00:55.16Raliththat said, I can probably be of much more use playing with a GUI than on the geometry engine.
00:55.25mafmI don't know how intricate is the GUI implementation with the rest of the engine
00:55.40Ralithbrlcad, a lot of that sounds like stuff that would be provided by w/e GUI lib.
00:55.55mafmbut in other GUIs porting means one week, or even one afternoon for somewhat knowledable people
00:55.56Ralithmafm, ideally, I imagine it would be fairly well abstracted out.
00:56.25mafmso low as to inject the input, and draw it in an object to be passed to the engine to render it
00:57.11brlcadRalith: they can be, but some aren't -- think of it as the subset of things you'd still have to do regardless of what gui was chosen
00:57.23Ralithright
00:57.35brlcador even better, what you'd have to do if you wanted to cleanly support multiple gui interfaces (not that we'd want/need to)
00:58.28brlcadbut that separation of responsibilities -- e.g., a gui lib isn't going to manage or know about geometry, but the interface is at some point going to have to have a container for displayed sets of geometry
00:58.40brlcadmuch of that mafm actually already has done fortunately
00:59.09brlcadmafm: yeah, he said he ported to wxwidgets and java in less than a day for both
00:59.30brlcadthe premise for a month was assuming a dev that had no knowledge of the lib and would have to learn where everything was
00:59.44brlcadunassisted
01:04.10mafmthen that might take years :D
01:04.59mafm(unassisted, without idea of how engines work, etc)
01:05.56mafmanyway, did you check OpenSceneGraph? I recall you having a strong bias for using OGRE, but I don't know exactly if we talked about problems with others
01:07.02brlcadno, I mean his estimate that it'd take about a month was without him helping someone through the code -- about a month for someone to figure it out and port
01:07.16brlcadnot someone completely involent
01:07.30brlcadand yes, I'm very familiar with OSG
01:08.54mafmwhy are you familiar with OSG? adn why did you favor OGRE?
01:10.08brlcadare you asking out of curiousity of as a means to justify not using ogre? :)
01:10.22brlcadI used OSG a few years ago for some test projects, have talked to their devs on a few occasions
01:11.16mafmcuriosity, I like OSG better
01:11.39brlcadosg is very close in appeal as an engine, they ranked up in the top five easy, maybe even #2
01:12.32brlcadthey have a fair bit of complexity creepage, especially compared to ogre staying focused on rendering
01:13.25brlcadtheir docs, support, and community aren't nearly as easy/quick/effective to work with as some of the other engines
01:14.28mafmdocs for starting up are hard, yes
01:14.45brlcadogre has some outstanding leadership, steve is a really great guy to work with, the devs are exceedingly helpful
01:14.56mafmwhich are the others in the top?
01:15.07brlcadassaf was in the middle of porting bzflag to ogre by the time the gsoc mentor summit was done
01:16.04mafmuh, bzflag is in ogre... interesting :D
01:16.21*** join/#brlcad sporty__ (n=sporty_@217.118.79.40)
01:16.24brlcadthey just really have their act together and are organized for long-term growth/maintenance compared to OSG, which is a lot more academics that throw in features from time to time with a lot more half-hazard less-dedicated leadership
01:16.36sporty__brlcad: need help
01:16.48brlcadmafm: it's not yet, we've just been in talks and evaluations about adopting an engine for a couple years
01:17.07sporty__brlcad: Question: dxflib code: key/value pairs - is it eaxactly a way the code looks like? Or it is just a low-level API for Dxflib?
01:17.42brlcadsporty__: we don't support dxflib
01:18.03brlcador have anything to do with them
01:18.14mafmwell, nice anyway
01:18.29mafmI don't have really objections about using OGRE
01:18.29brlcadwe have a prototype port of bzflag to crystalspace already
01:18.31sporty__brlcad: i want your answer as a programer's one for ***another*** translation.
01:18.53sporty__brlcad: it is question about the DXF-files
01:19.10brlcadsporty__: so then ask a generic question that has nothing to do with dxflib
01:19.20sporty__brlcad: i do
01:19.27brlcadasking me about dxflib isn't going to get you an answer ;)
01:19.30Ralithbrlcad, is that bzflag 2?
01:19.40brlcadRalith: nope
01:19.53brlcadmaybe 2.2
01:20.13Ralithengine change seems like a pretty big thing for a minor release
01:20.28sporty__brlcad: Am i right to think real .DXF files consist of key/value tuples? Or am i just a sad looser?
01:20.40brlcadthe CS port is pretty much a stalled/dead effort right now, but there have also been tests using three or four other engines too
01:21.00brlcadit just made the most progress in a short time (because it got a core dev excited for a couple weeks)
01:21.13brlcadsporty__: it sounds like you're a sad loser :)
01:21.23brlcadthey're more complicated than that
01:21.23sporty__brlcad: seriously, please
01:21.36brlcadhey if you want serious, don't ask stupid questions :)
01:21.47sporty__brlcad: that's why it is only a low-level API, right?
01:21.57brlcadit's not an API at all
01:22.00brlcadit's a file format
01:22.17Ralith:P
01:22.38sporty__brlcad: yes, but is it exactly a format, or these key/values pairs represent a way of low-level programming??
01:23.02brlcadthat question fails to parse, rephrase
01:23.10sporty__brlcad: is it a syntax of DXF, or something ..
01:23.19brlcadis DXF a syntax of DXF?
01:23.48brlcadstop saying "it", replace with a different word
01:23.49sporty__"""key = value""" = syntax (within the headers of) DXF-files ?
01:24.27brlcaddxf files do not entirely consist of key/value paris
01:24.44brlcadthere is statefulness in them that a parser has to be aware of
01:25.13sporty__brlcad: but are these "tuples" or "pairs" just a ***particular*** part of the syntax?
01:25.37brlcadas opposed to what?
01:25.57mafmbrlcad: crystalspace? in parallel with OGRE or was decided to use that one finally?
01:26.04brlcadsporty__: are you asking if there are any key/value pairs in the format?
01:26.16sporty__brlcad: exactly
01:26.17brlcadmafm: it doesn't work like that
01:26.47sporty__brlcad: and surely just love any your word ;)
01:26.51brlcadsporty__: there are key/value representations *somewhere* in the format, I'm sure
01:27.00brlcadjust like there are key/value pairings in .g files too
01:27.10brlcadthat just doesn't mean the whole format is that way
01:27.46sporty__brlcad: ok, i have an answer to my question
01:27.47brlcadsporty__: "and surely just love any your word" doesn't make any sense to me either
01:28.07sporty__i'm about the Dxflib Programmer's Manual
01:28.24sporty__brlcad: it's all right
01:29.31brlcadmafm: picking up an engine is a major endevour, so testing out various engines have been mostly independent (some in parallel, some collaborative, some not) activities
01:29.44brlcaddepends heavily on which dev is doing the work and what's being looked into
01:31.17brlcadit's a major undertaking because bz already has it's own rendering engine and opengl is just about *everywhere* in the game client code, so cleaning things up is a bit of a chore
01:32.25mafmI guess so
01:32.54mafmbut I was curious in the case that you finally disregarded OGRE and chose CS instead
01:42.49*** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202)
01:45.33brlcadnope, it's still an open item until it's "done"
01:47.43*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
02:14.54CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33388 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/dem-g.c: autoformat, style and ws consistency cleanup
02:20.59CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33389 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/dem-g.c: use libbu facilities where appropriate, bu_log bu_exit BRLCAD_ERROR/OK status codes
02:24.44CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33390 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/dem-g.c: don't need signed keyword, it's signed by default
02:25.44mafmI see
02:25.53mafmwell, I'm going to sleep soon
02:26.00mafmhave a nice night/whatever :)
02:38.23CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33391 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/dem-g.c: restructure reduce the logic nesting, simplify; remove a few obvious comments; more style cleanup
02:38.36sporty__mafm: you can imagine someone from "the malibu beach" TV series (ladies) - who's drafting in BRL-CAD suite in attempt to build some another brave new vehicle
02:39.23sporty__...and do it right in that red swim suits, two ladies behind one personal computer!
02:40.08mafmnice thing to imagine before sleeping.. :)
02:40.41sporty__...it's getting "just a bit hot" - and voila! they want to dry each other with a tiny towel!
02:40.48sporty__mafm: yeah
02:41.27sporty__mafm: could be real
02:42.17mafmit happens all the time among computer geeks, yep :D
02:44.05CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33392 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/dem-g.c: quell compilation warnings. curious unused arguments for process_manual_dem_max_real_elevation() and it's nearly identical cousin func.
02:49.29mafmbye!
02:58.27CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33393 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/dem-g.c: some last touch-ups to restore some of the comment alignments and use multiline comments in (just some of) the places where the comments spanned multiple lines.
03:00.25CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33394 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bn.h: quell warning, extern is not at beginning of declaration
03:01.27CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33395 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bn.h: oh, right, they go inside
03:04.03*** join/#brlcad pacman871 (n=Timothy@pool-71-170-39-105.dllstx.fios.verizon.net)
03:06.15CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33396 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bn.h: comment consistency/ws cleanup
03:10.56CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33397 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: richard added a new dem-g terrain importer as part of getting up to speed with some of the proc-db basics.
03:15.21*** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.130.146)
03:19.19starseekerAh, starting to get the hang of this:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/MarkVIII_Rock_Island_bw.pdf
03:21.04brlcadneat
03:27.00sporty__what is its size? in kb?
03:27.30sporty__.bz - belgian?
03:27.44brlcad~bz
03:27.45ibotwell, bz is Belize
03:28.00sporty__a city?
03:28.21sporty__~nkz
03:29.06sporty__~time
03:29.06ibot2008.12.17  3:29:06 GMT
03:32.22brlcadyou don't know if belize is a city or not?
03:32.56brlcadsuggests an encyclopedia
03:37.36kanzure_hrm, pipe append with mouse is neat, but "append" isn't a command? hints?
03:39.27brlcadkanzure_: you can "press" the edit menu options via the command-line
03:41.24kanzure_hrm, the naming convention is odd, what's going on? "press help" -> says I can do "press accept", where accept is Edit->Accept (or really just 'accept' as a command, but anyway)
03:41.30kanzure_so is it press -> directly to the command?
03:42.37brlcadthere is an "accept" command just because it's so frequently used
03:42.46brlcad"press accept" is the long variant
03:43.02brlcadpress "Move V"
03:43.06kanzure_in particular I'm looking for what "edit -> append point" is when I've done 'make thing.s pipe'.
03:43.20brlcadso probably: press "append point"
03:43.33kanzure_unknown operation
03:43.39brlcadcase?
03:43.47kanzure_yeah :(
03:43.55kanzure_okay, so how do I "virtually click" or specify a point?
03:43.58kanzure_this isn't asking me for a parameter. hrm.
03:44.15brlcadgood ol' "p" command?
03:44.18brlcadp x y z
03:44.23brlcad(guessing)
03:44.49brlcadhave to trace into the tcl to see what command the mouse event is actually bound to
03:45.09kanzure_yep, that does it
03:45.33kanzure_thank you. by trace do you mean that I should just go look at the sources? or is there some other method that I should know of?
03:50.36brlcadkanzure_: actually I meant that I should go look, but yeah, you could go look too ;)
03:50.49brlcadand yea, I meant the sources
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04:04.25brlcadkanzure_: also, if you've not seen it, the mged quick reference sheet in the docs section on the website might be of use to you
04:05.02brlcadit covers commands like press and p
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06:17.42brlcadthat's quite a name Dr_Phreakenstein
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06:51.43Dr_Phreakensteinwell, thanks
06:52.25Dr_Phreakenstein.
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11:42.36mafmhi
11:45.57madanthowdy mafm :)
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12:01.41claymoremorning all!
12:02.33madant:) sunset here :P
12:04.32mafmpast noon here! :D
12:04.51claymoremadant: India?
12:05.02mafmhowever, for IRC greeting purposes, joining is "morning" and going away is "night"
12:05.04mafm:D
12:05.22madantclaymore: yep
12:05.47madantmafm: like erdos's when did you arrive
12:08.54mafmmadant: erdos?
12:10.02madantPaul erdos, the eccentric and probably most prolific mathematician of 20th century :D
12:10.37madant"When did you arrive" = when were you born :) "Supreme fascist" = God, "epsilon" = children etc..
12:11.59mafmlol
12:12.05mafmthen it's the same, yep
12:12.20claymoreheh, women="bosses" and men="slaves"  ...nice!
12:14.10madant:) logical
12:14.31claymorelol, of course you'd think so :P
12:14.50madanthuh :O i am a a slave myself :D
12:15.15mafmyou are a zero slave yourself
12:15.18madantmy name is a bit confusing in American circles i guess :P
12:15.42madantin india there are lots of guys named dawn. but i guess not a single male dawn must be there in us :)
12:16.52madantand i was particularly impressed by Erdos (+Euler) proof for the divergence of inverse sum of primes
12:20.31mafmI mean zero because for him, himself was 0
12:20.32mafm:D
12:20.49mafmso you are 0 as yourself, slave as a man
12:20.58madant;P
12:21.10mafmweird guy, yep :)
12:21.24madantprolific
12:21.32claymoremadant:  Sorry, I thought I heard somewhere in conversation that you were married :)
12:21.42madant:D
12:22.49madantEven erdos's idea of god having a book of all the nicest mathematical proofs is quite nice.. this book dedicated to him is indeed such a pleasure to read.. :) http://books.google.com/books?id=KvQr9l0wgf8C&printsec=frontcover&dq=Proofs+from+the+book&ei=y-5ISeroL4bWlQTTkJnjDg
12:23.03claymorebrlcad:  Just fyi, but I am not commiting right now simply because I am evaluating a few different angles for the serialization part of the GS.
12:23.47claymore``Erik: How ya feeling?
12:24.54claymorebrlcad: bytebag = sexiness.
12:30.04CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r33398 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bn.h: scarcely imaginable this code was tested before check in ;)
12:44.10CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33399 10/rt^3/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Added ByteBag.hpp and .cxx
13:57.02``Erikalive O.o stomach's bugging me, couldn't really eat lunch on monday and almost lost what little I did get down on the drive home O.o a lot better today, though :)
13:58.02d-logood deal!  WoW servers ever come up yesterday?
13:58.39``Erikyeah, I played a little, but spent most of the day asleep
14:08.26brlcadd-lo: that was all in good fun :)
14:09.28d-lobrlcad: BaCk OfF  Okay?!?!!11!1!
14:09.29brlcadlike I keep saying, can't be too frequent
14:09.48d-loif you want me to start commiting all my 'essssperiments' then sure :)
14:09.54brlcadsure
14:10.19d-logrins evily.
14:10.32brlcadthat's often very useful actually -- part of the revision history intent is to see why code evolved in a direction it did
14:11.08brlcadif you see a piece of code for serialization tried out paths A and B before ending up at C -- a lot more insightful/useful that just seeing it at the end-state of C
14:11.55d-loif you say so!  I need to get stuff in the repo so I can work on it over the vaca.
14:12.01brlcadespecially since many devs will go through the same thoughts and wonder .. well what about A and B? .. and proceed to make changes thinking nobody tried
14:12.15starseekerGot the size down to 10 megs, automated the color removal part :-)  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/MarkVIII_Rock_Island-bw.pdf
14:14.46brlcadstarseeker: nice cleanup!  
14:14.51brlcadyou know the macs have an automatic size reduction filter yes?
14:16.32brlcad(and acrobat of course gives you obscene knobs on the quality encoding controls)
14:16.59starseekerbrlcad: size reduction?
14:18.41brlcadyeah, though looks like the default is already "too much"
14:19.23starseekerdo you mean autosizing the pdf for viewing?
14:19.41brlcadno, sizing the file by re-encoding the image data
14:20.02starseekerOh, ok
14:20.12brlcadjust didn't know if you'd tried it
14:20.16starseekerdid that one in Scribus actually
14:20.55starseekernotices the scribus dpi resample, tries it...
14:21.22brlcadsays let them be huge
14:21.38starseeker300dpi max... yeah, that'll be huge :-)
14:21.40brlcadnot like someone else is ever going to do this -- the higher res the better, so long as they're clean and readable
14:22.23starseekeris saving the original scans, the color "clip outs" that constitute actual content, and the processed b&w cleaned up image :-)
14:22.26starseekerplus the pdfs
14:22.59starseekerdoubts the museum will know what to do with any of it, judging by their websites, but oh well...
14:23.06starseekerdoes :-)
14:24.01starseekerhmm, actually 300dpi was a bit of a downsample
14:24.03starseekerinteresting
14:24.21starseekertakes it down to 9.7 megs
14:24.29starseekernegligible on this one
14:24.53brlcadd-lo: fyi, the bytebag classes could use some work -- the toND and fromND wrappers, for example, are now pointless (they originally did something different on windows)
14:24.53starseekerneeds to make a wiki page with the image processing details
14:25.27brlcadthe error handling could be probably obliterated with a non-exception-generating approach
14:25.33brlcadwith guarantees on memory and such
14:26.00d-lois working it right now. There were some blantant OO violations too :)
14:26.13brlcadbut the typeless streamability of the packing and unpacking mechanism is the nice part
14:26.20d-loJust poking and prodding to see what the intent was before I go a-changing things.
14:26.51brlcadhrm, what blatant OO violations?
14:27.29brlcadthat was also a version from like .. a long time ago, probably not the latest but close enough
14:27.31d-lochar * data was set to public when it didn't need to be.
14:27.38d-losimple fix.
14:27.52d-loalso looking into why all the 'friend' statements are there. :/
14:27.58brlcadah, sure
14:30.27d-loalso am moving implementation *out* of the header... just for uniformity's sake.
14:31.09brlcadyeah... there was a reason for that -- but unless it was documented, I couldn't say off the top of my head
14:31.34d-lowell, they were only the simple getters 'n' setters
14:31.44d-loand the very well could have stayed put.
14:32.08brlcadi mean why all the streams are friends
14:32.51brlcadthe header bit was undoubtedly for inlining
14:32.53d-lowell, it *obviously* has to do with the member access... just trying to extrapolate the pro's and cons from that approach.
14:33.32d-loits more learning that figuing out what/if he did anything silly.
14:33.32brlcadespecially with old compilers, you would *only* get actual inlining if it was in the class declaration
14:33.57brlcadregardless of the inline statements and practices elsewhere, they just wouldn't do it
14:34.03d-loinlining == speed ...right?
14:34.16brlcadyep
14:34.31d-lodoes that count as premature optimization :D
14:34.36d-lo?
14:35.23brlcadit wasn't done beforehand, it was part of another code originally (and later part of a small handful of codes)
14:35.32brlcadit was refactored into the header
14:35.45brlcadwhere having a revision history would possibly help ;)
14:35.55d-locool.  Does Jason pop in here often?
14:36.18brlcadnot really often, no -- but he's an easy phone call
14:36.39brlcadthat was a long time ago for him, though -- hehe, dunno if he'd even remember why
14:37.17brlcadthis was before he even started down the M3 and java path, used to be a top-notch c++ programmer
14:37.35d-lo...till java got him? :D
14:38.11brlcadnah, java just annoyed him slightly less -- just about every language frustrates him :)
14:38.34d-lonone good enough?
14:38.48brlcadpretty much
14:51.05d-lointeresting approach to it alright....
14:58.26d-lobrlcad: in the << and >> operator overloads that deal with std::strings, do you know why he had the 'string length' parameter variable?  aka, WID_8, WID_16, WID_32, etc.  Whats that for efficiency?
14:58.47d-loWhats == was
15:09.34brlcadglancing through it, yes -- I think the point was to store the length with only exactly as many bytes as it needs
15:09.58brlcadalmost undoubtedly, that was for space efficiency
15:10.39brlcadso if the length was only 58 chars, it used one byte -- if it was 588 chars long it used two bytes -- if it was 58888 chars long, it used three bytes, etc
15:11.29d-loactually, it looks like it switched on a preset width, set at instantiation of the object.... neat :)
15:12.02brlcadat one point, bytebag was part of a larger effort to rewrite librt's I/O layer in C++ -- where it has a lot of performance requirements to even do as well as what it does now
15:12.45brlcadthat's just initialization
15:12.52brlcadlook for the "this stupid function" comments
15:13.26brlcadif you were packing a string, you had to set the width of your bytebag
15:13.58brlcadthat's undoubtedly about where things were a work in progress -- didn't actually have any strings being packed
15:14.22d-lowas thinking about an optimized byte array concept a few weeks back. Need to write it down and play with it sometime.
15:14.53d-lolol , yeah, I saw that 'stupid function' :D
15:15.00d-loi love comical comments.
15:16.25brlcadlibbu has a "variable length buffer" vlb set of routines that might be useful for packing binary arrays of data without having to manage memory (there's a similar stl and boost interface to such as well)
15:18.17d-loit does seem like the actual storage part of bytebag is a re-invented wheel.... i was just thinking of that very thing.
15:18.32d-lodoes vlb store *only* bytes?
15:18.46brlcadopposed to what else?
15:19.14brlcadyou pass it a pointer and a length, it puts that many bytes into an array that is automatically grown as needed
15:19.21d-loas opposed to all the other data types.  Maybe I worded my question poorly.
15:19.43brlcadI wouldn't use it for serialization by itself
15:20.06brlcadit could be the memory management portion of something that does, though, for example
15:20.39brlcadnot suggesting using that in particular, just wanted you to be aware of it since it's related
15:21.11brlcadyou have the benefit of working in C++ where the default stl data containers are available to you, some of which are outstanding
15:21.17d-loright, I was thinking of: a) revamping the how the bytes are stored inside a ByteBag, b) building similar << >> overloads on top of a vlb, or c) replacing the byte storage in a ByteBag with a vlb.
15:21.24d-loponders.
15:21.25brlcadbytebag was written before stl was prevalent
15:22.32d-loalso looking at some ByteInputStream and ByteOutputStream implementations I found.
15:22.55clock_What exercise do you do for biceps brachii?
15:23.55brlcadclock_: everything around them, especially your tris and shoulders
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15:38.12brlcadd-lo: using std::vector or std::string for the memory management would probably be how I'd approach it if needed, but then I'd probably just use it first too so I could evaluate the baseline/current behavior and performance with it in place
15:41.00d-lobrlcad: are you gonna make the 1300?
15:41.05brlcadthe itch to change the code because you can look under the hood and see ways to make it better is pretty strong, I'm sure .. but must fight those urges :)
15:41.13brlcadd-lo: of course
15:41.35d-lolol.
15:41.43d-lomust... fight.... urges..... :)
15:42.09d-lowell, its actually stemmed from looking at how to gut the exception throwing.
15:42.13brlcadthat's the problem with some of the "fun" code .. it's fun because it's actually kinda easy
15:42.48d-lothere is a check for bytesRead >= bytesFilled that throws an EmptyError
15:43.02brlcadthat was part of my point yesterday, no so much what you were doing, but more that that sort of code takes up the same amount of time but is very often (very) short-lived code too
15:43.57brlcadthere's harder code to be written for certain :)
15:45.07d-lowhich led me to see there were two 'postions' being tracked.... which begged the question 'how could that be done easier?'
15:45.14d-loso, here i am :)
15:45.41brlcadexceptions are supposed to be exceptional too, could just ignore them, or rip them all out too
15:46.01brlcadmake them asserts
15:47.15brlcada failure in serialization isn't something that should happen outside of a bug that creeps in, hard failure wouldn't be unwarranted
15:47.57PrezKennedyhey brlcad, what sort of recliner did you get?
15:48.45d-lobrlcad: righto, thats another thing I was looking for:  failure modes.  I don't really see too much of a danger with bytebag
15:48.54brlcadPrezKennedy: a rock-solid snazzy leather one
15:56.56d-loheh http://www.wikihow.com/Turn-an-Oversized-T-Shirt-Into-a-Hot-Mini-Dress
16:05.01d-lohow would I 'include' headers/source from the brlcad module into rt^3 without duplicating files?
16:05.14d-loor is the answer simpler that I am making it out to be?
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17:06.49brlcadd-lo: you should assume it's all installed, so you use it like you'd use stl headers or libpng headers/libs
17:07.20d-loalrighty.  what about compliation testing then?  
17:07.27brlcade.g. source file/header might just #include "bu.h", use some libbu routine
17:07.55brlcadthat then implies you need headers search paths to find the header and a lib search paths to find -lbu
17:08.17brlcadwhich is all configure.ac's job and decls in the Makefile.am files
17:08.36brlcadthere is a brlcad-config binary that reports the cppflags and ldflags
17:08.57brlcade.g. brlcad-config --libs bu
17:09.30brlcadand brlcad-config --cflags bu
17:09.58brlcadthere are other things you can ask for from brlcad-config (and if things aren't right there, they should get fixed -- that's infrequently tested internally)
17:10.10brlcadshould all be right though
17:10.51d-lookie.  thanks!
17:26.05kanzure_I don't know why I'm making this harder than it is; I just want to plot a spiral made out of the pipe primitive. So when I plot the points, it's always telling me that the points are wrong because of the bend radius being too small - so I increase the bend radius, but then the points are out of alignment. So I change the points by some factor of 10, and then the points are too close, or too far, etc. Any suggestions? I'm just plotting wi
17:26.44kanzure_and by plotting I mean I'm generating the "p x y z" commands, I'm not aware of internal plotting functions beyond scripting.
17:28.09d-lokanzure_: what *exactly* is the error message you get that is about 'bend radius being too small' ?
17:30.59CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33400 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libtclcad/ged_obj.c: When refreshing the display, temporarily turn off the zbuffer IF the framebuffer is active AND the zbuffer is on. This fixes the problem of having the wireframe partially bleed through into the rendered image.
17:44.13kanzure_d-lo: Bend radii (2.40603e+09mm) at ( 18577.5 -71662.6 -4.81201e+09 ) and (2.40603e+09mm) at ( 18577.5 -71662.6 4.81209e+09 ) are too large
17:44.16kanzure_for pipe segment between ( 18577.5 -71662.6 -4.81201e+09 ) and ( 18577.5 -71662.6 4.81209e+09 )
17:44.19kanzure_last segment ( 18577.5 -71662.6 4.81209e+09 ) to ( -2827.43 3.11624e-12 0 ) is too short to allow
17:44.22kanzure_bend radius of 2.40603e+09mm
17:44.24kanzure_and on and on for the 1k points that I'm plotting
17:44.53d-lookay, thats actually telling you that your bend radius is too large, not too small.
17:45.07d-lois the pipe of a constant diameter from end to end?
17:46.36d-loif it is, then my suggestion is to set the overall pipe bend radius to 1/2 of the outer diameter.
17:46.51d-loit will not look like a spiral yet.
17:47.20d-loonce all your points are in the correct position, start bumping up the bend radius for the whole pipe untill it starts to give you errors.
17:47.38d-loapologizes for his bad spelling :)
17:48.30d-lowell, off to a meeting :/
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21:16.28IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/workmode.png    <--- the hippo at work :)
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21:43.24IriX64http://rafb.net/p/eLuXlY18.html     <---- been fighting this for a while, any idea whats wrong here?
21:43.55IriX64thats in librt
21:44.04IriX64comb.exe
21:44.34sporty__IriX64: i saw this page, don't know
21:49.21sporty__IriX64: you can forget about this particular broblem and model another models
21:50.05sporty__maybe, those restrictions for ms w. os ? Brl-cad has some restrictions in there
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23:49.25Ralithbrlcad: you around?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081218

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081218

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02:39.54mafm_night
02:57.04starseekeris intrigued by the "DocuPen" scanner
03:05.48starseekercan't figure out if it can do 8xN scans where N > 11
03:24.52*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedyJR (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net)
03:37.47starseekerHmm, apparently the manufacturing quality sorta sucks
03:45.25starseekergrrr - this is insane
03:45.59starseekerHP creates one decent handheld 10 years ago, discontinues it, and I don't see a successor product except for this "DocuPen"
03:46.50starseekerbegins to suspect they don't want to hurt their $20000 wide format scanner markets by introducing something else that can viably scan them
04:02.32starseekermeh - even if the DocuPen were OK, it has no Linux support
04:25.09starseekerAh, thought so - old Mustek scanner was non feeder
04:31.01starseekerLogitech too
04:31.11starseekerastonishing everyone abandoned them
04:31.31starseekerwith optical mouse technology you could track where your scanner is relative to a large page
04:32.48starseekereyes Logitech Scanman but doubts he can get it hooked to a modern laptop
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06:49.19brlcadRalith: not really, lot of distractions tonight
06:50.25Ralithkk
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10:40.25mafmhi
11:57.23d-lohai mafm!  hows the holidays/vacation going?
11:59.21mafmbusy packing/unpacking and working in my project
11:59.24mafmotherwise all right :)
11:59.29mafmand you?
12:07.44d-lobusy busy.  Family visiting soon, work deadlines, etc.
12:07.52d-lobut generally good.
12:15.27d-loget that new job lined up?  I can't remember if you said you had or not.
14:15.40mafmlining up
14:15.47mafmin fact I had to chose between two
14:16.00mafmmaybe I start in one and end up in another in a few months :)
14:16.12mafmbut yes, a bit of rest in the meantime :)
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17:41.56d-lorather quiet today...
17:42.16brlcadeveryone is apparently busy coding
17:42.40brlcad(slaps knee)
17:42.45d-lowants what brlcad is on :D
17:43.55brlcadsqueals with glee as the bot wanders around cleaning
17:44.21d-lolol, so I take it you like it?
17:49.33brlcadyep :)
17:50.29brlcadonly issue thusfar is it having trouble getting onto a thick area rug I got, bumps into it like a wall unless it approaches from an angle
17:51.46brlcadnext project: attach a wireless webcam to it
17:52.09d-lonice :)
17:57.03d-lobrlcad: make a little ramp for the bot and see if it can understand a 'one-sided' wall :)
17:57.29brlcadit has a cliff sensor
17:57.41brlcadto prevent it from flying down stairs
17:58.12d-loso.... the ramp would be a 'door' and the area rug would be another 'room'..... neat :)
17:58.48brlcadah, you mean for getting past my problem?
17:58.52clock_brlcad: yeah with skateboard it's the same
17:59.28d-lobrlcad: yuppers.  I am curious about how adaptive a roomba is..
17:59.36clock_Is it equipped with AS (Artificial Stupidity)?
18:00.22brlcadd-lo: not really adaptive, you can tell it uses a fairly simple FSM
18:00.45brlcadwith the carpet, it actually hits a wall sensor on the front that presses a lever in
18:00.55brlcadbecause the carpet is about .5" thick
18:01.38brlcadso the stop is more mechanical -- if I can ramp it up slightly, it won't press the bar in
18:02.00brlcadbut doing that without looking like ass will be a little tricky
18:02.33d-loput 22"'s on it.  That should get the clearence :D
18:02.44d-loand it would look dope yo.
18:03.34d-loheh, someone has www.pimpmyroomba.com registered lol
18:04.06brlcadhttp://hackingroomba.com ;)
18:04.37brlcadooh, a roomba painter.. that could be fun in the basement
18:05.55clock_the Electrolux Trilobite is supposed to have more advanced algorithm with room mapping
18:07.13clock_The easiest way to create a robot that can map a room is... find a women and wait 9 months
18:07.43brlcadi'm pretty sure there's a step missing in there
18:07.44d-loclock_: You missed a critical step in that process that many many men have problems with :)
18:09.46clock_After computer geeks figure out how to make artificial intelligence in robots
18:09.55clock_I think the next step will be how to make social intelligence in geeks
18:11.01d-loheh, well, with a girlfriend-bot, i dunno how important that second step will be to geeks anymore :/
18:11.47clock_With a reprap inside to create babies
18:12.36d-loblinks.
18:12.51d-lookay.  this went Matrix quickly didn't it.
18:14.04d-lobah.  its 78 in Orlando :/
18:14.05clock_I wonder where homosexuality comes from
18:14.12d-lois mildly jealous.
18:14.19clock_Meybe it's a forgotten debug testing routine from the development
18:14.25d-lonow there's a topic I won't touch.
18:14.57brlcadclock_: san francisco so I've heard
18:15.04d-lolol
18:15.25clock_brlcad: :D
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19:46.46DanielFalckbrlcad: could you point me to some documentation on how to use the sketch and extrude commands?  the wiki just shows a little info on get and put
19:47.15DanielFalckI'm learning the basics of mged and the manual seems to show these commands as experimental
19:54.38brlcadDanielFalck: they sort of are in a way just because the editing interfaces on sketches is rather poor
19:56.31brlcadthey're also often generally just not a favored modeling practice since it's based around the traditional 2D approach
19:58.11brlcadprobably easier is to see an example, http://brlcad.org/tmp/sketch.g
19:58.23brlcadthere is one sketch and one extrude in that file
19:59.24brlcadif you edit that existing sketch, you should see the sketch editor where you can make edits and see how it affects the resulting shape
20:02.32DanielFalckwhat I plan on doing is converting shapes in a dxf file in sketched shapes and extrude them
20:02.50DanielFalckinto
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20:05.41DanielFalckthanks
20:05.53brlcadso you run dxf-g, it should create a sketch for you if it's a 2D entity we recognize
20:06.25brlcadthen you create an extrude that uses it, the "in" command is probably the easiest to start with (just type "in", it's interactive)
20:07.53DanielFalckgreat
20:08.18DanielFalckV =vertex
20:08.21DanielFalckH= height
20:08.34DanielFalckA =?
20:08.39DanielFalckB = ?
20:08.56DanielFalckK = ?
20:09.10DanielFalckI see u_dir, v_dir when listing
20:09.53brlcadk is unused, ignore it
20:10.12brlcada and b are orientation scaling vectors
20:10.22DanielFalckok, thanks
20:10.54brlcadusually easiest to just make them 0 1 0  and 1 0 0  so that the sketch is just oriented in the x/y plane
20:11.09brlcadwhere 1 is whatever scaling factor size you want to make it
20:11.22DanielFalckhow can I skip K - when I hit enter it persists
20:11.31brlcad0
20:11.33brlcad1
20:11.35brlcadwhatever
20:11.39DanielFalckok
20:11.46DanielFalckthat worked
20:11.47DanielFalckthanks
20:13.15DanielFalckso in theory, I should be able to use brlcad in batch mode with my own scripts and convert a friendly dxf file to a sketch, extrude it, do whatever operations I need to, then export to my other applications
20:13.34DanielFalckthis will be very helpful
20:13.39DanielFalckthank you
20:16.46DanielFalckhttp://imagebin.org/33941
20:21.10CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33401 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 5 dirs):
20:21.10CIA-6BRL-CAD: this has come up several times in the past. remove the 'in' command prompting
20:21.10CIA-6BRL-CAD: for a seemingly mysterious 'k' option. the option was for a keypoint parameter
20:21.10CIA-6BRL-CAD: that was never utilized. since this is technically an experimental primitive,
20:21.11CIA-6BRL-CAD: it doesn't need to go through deprecation but it probably should still be stored
20:21.13CIA-6BRL-CAD: in the .g since it's been around for so long.
20:23.31CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33402 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: someone(tm) should clean up extrude dbio when we break proto for v6
20:23.45brlcadDanielFalck: yeah, that's the basic idea that should work
20:24.04brlcadmind you, the dxf->sketch path isn't heavily tested -- let me know how that works out
20:24.49DanielFalckok, will do
20:26.11brlcadDanielFalck: that's a really curious image -- did you modify the sketch.g I gave you or something?
20:27.04brlcadit's the right shape, but it's extruded too much
20:27.51DanielFalckbrlcad: I typed in 0 1 0 and 1 0 0 for a and b
20:28.07brlcadahh, you recreated the extrude
20:28.12DanielFalckand I extruded it myself
20:28.21brlcadgotcha
20:28.24DanielFalck<PROTECTED>
20:28.57brlcadjust making sure the extrude didn't export to stl/dxf/whatever with a bad vertical scaling or something.. :)
20:30.53DanielFalckI would like to model screw threads at some point.  Is that something that I should try to do with brlcad (after I learn more)?
20:31.35DanielFalckwith a lot of rotating/translating
20:37.01brlcadclock actually has some nice threaded bolts that he scripted a while back
20:37.15DanielFalckcool
20:37.46brlcadtook forever to raytrace and even longer to tessellate to a polygonal format, but it actually worked
20:38.04DanielFalckI don't see him here. does he show up here much?
20:38.48brlcad~seen clock_
20:38.50ibotclock_ <n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 2h 23m 25s ago, saying: 'brlcad: :D'.
20:39.07DanielFalckok thanks
20:39.24DanielFalckI'll watch for him
20:39.42brlcadhe's usually here, probably went to take a nap
20:43.23brlcadugh, it's on one horribly asslow net connection, but you can see pics of it here:  http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/hardware_4.png
20:43.41DanielFalcknice
20:44.04brlcad[1-6] are other images
20:45.01brlcadbasically tranlated torus at an angle makes a nice cutout
20:46.55DanielFalckthanks. I found the source file
20:49.37DanielFalckvery nice
20:58.55DanielFalckhe used a truncated general cone
21:01.26brlcadah, I vaguely remember that
21:01.42brlcadused a constructive approach instead of carving/subtracting
21:02.25DanielFalckso, I plan on using the bash terminal more than anything and I'm getting along pretty well using mged in -c mode
21:02.37DanielFalckI can list out his components pretty easily
21:02.42brlcadone of the best features of mged ;)
21:02.53DanielFalckwith a "mged -c hardware.g l hex6_3_6.9.s"
21:03.16DanielFalckI was reading your SGI script
21:03.21DanielFalckpretty nice stuff
21:03.36brlcadi even use that for interactive stuff, but the downside is you don't get tab-completion
21:04.05brlcadtried to show several of the scripting methods in there
21:04.37DanielFalckI'm not a bash scripter, but I am starting to understand a little of it
21:04.52DanielFalckI mostly just play with it
21:05.05brlcadsh scripting is pretty simple
21:05.10brlcadthere's so much you can't do ;)
21:05.24brlcadso it confines you to just a few basic syntactic structures
21:05.32DanielFalckI'm a CAD jockey at work.  I play with python at home
21:05.59DanielFalckso I'm just getting dangerous : )
21:06.16DanielFalck"erase your harddrive in 5 easy steps " : )
21:06.55brlcadhm, I should have renamed i and j "long" and "short" or something
21:07.09brlcad5 easy steps??
21:07.11brlcadit only takes one :)
21:07.19DanielFalckthat's true
21:07.23DanielFalckone command
21:08.12brlcadsudo rm -rf / or sudo cat /dev/random > /dev/hda1 come to mind ;)
21:08.24brlcador "fdisk"
21:08.38jonoredAny particular reason mged -c doesn't get tab completion? (I've probably asked before...)
21:09.29brlcadjonored: mged -c should have tab completion
21:09.43brlcadrunning mged -c file.g some_command doesn't .. because mged isn't running
21:10.06DanielFalckyou just can't tab complete something inside it
21:10.16jonored...Right. Apparently it's just my install being broken.
21:10.38DanielFalckwhat are you typing in exactly?
21:10.38brlcadjonored: ehm, what version?
21:13.02jonoredI was probably remembering something from a previous install that had other glitches anyways. It works now...
21:17.40jonored7.14.0 and it works fine... although is tesselation of pipes supposed to be working?
21:19.20jonoredg-stl sort of thing?
21:27.28brlcadyes, pipes should tessellate
21:28.03brlcadtessellation in general is a bit of a hard problem, though -- it's not robust depending on the numerics
21:33.19jonored*nod*. Would self-intersection be likely to break things? mged is actually crashing when I try to do E on this object, but I also don't trust that I've got a functional install - I'm building it through an ebuild I don't entirely trust not to mess things up.
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22:01.37DanielFalckbrlcad: could you give me a lesson on how to import a sketch into a *.g file using the mged -c classic mode ? thanks
22:01.51DanielFalckor even in mged graphical mode
22:07.15brlcadDanielFalck: yeah, but I'm right about to head out the door, have to be probably later today or tomorrow
22:07.25DanielFalckok no problem
22:07.34DanielFalckI'll study the wiki more
22:08.04brlcadyou can play with importing a sketch using that .g I gave you
22:08.11DanielFalckok thanks
22:08.12brlcadrun mged -c sketch.g get sketch
22:08.19DanielFalckok
22:08.21brlcadthen reverse that with put
22:08.29brlcadbit of reverse-engineering
22:08.31DanielFalckthanks
22:08.42brlcadbut basically there are codes for each segment type for the sketch and their values
22:09.54brlcadjonored: certainly shouldn't but possibly could
22:10.09brlcadcrashing during E is a problem that should be happening
22:10.21brlcader, shouldn't :)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081219

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081219

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00:11.25``Erikheh, I didn't know there was a crash after you do E O.o someone alert the ravers!
00:11.33``Erikhappyhour? damnit
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01:40.38``Erikwow, he's as bad as me :D
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02:25.31RalithAxman6: fix your net :P
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03:25.03n8r0xis there a .deb for the latest brlcad?
03:25.13n8r0xi looked.
03:26.13Ralithn8r0x: what distro are you using?
03:26.29n8r0xdebian
03:27.52Ralithweird, looks like you're right
03:28.39Ralithyou can always build from source
03:28.53Ralithsurprised we don't have a .deb release anywhere obvious
03:28.54n8r0xi tried.
03:28.58n8r0xbut i don't get mged.
03:29.08Ralithwhat did you do to build from source?
03:29.22n8r0x./configure ; make; make install ;
03:29.45Ralithn8r0x: is your environment set up correctly?
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03:30.02n8r0xwhat do i need it set to?
03:30.08n8r0xi know where brlcad's directory is ...
03:30.08Ralithset what to?
03:30.12n8r0x/usr/brlcad ...
03:30.22n8r0xbut there's no mged in that directory...
03:30.28Ralithof course not
03:30.37n8r0xor is there a new way of running brlcad?
03:30.41Ralithno
03:30.54Ralithhere's what I have in my .profile
03:32.00Ralithexport BRLCAD_ROOT=/usr/local/brlcad
03:32.00Ralithexport PATH="$BRLCAD_ROOT/bin:$PATH"
03:32.00Ralithexport MANPATH="$BRLCAD_ROOT/man:/usr/local/man:/usr/share/man"
03:32.00Ralithexport ITCL_PATH=$BRLCAD_ROOT/lib/itcl3.4
03:32.00Ralithexport ITK_PATH=$BRLCAD_ROOT/lib/itk3.4  
03:32.05Ralithyou will need to change BRLCAD_ROOT, of course
03:32.58n8r0xare you not using debian?
03:33.51RalithI don't believe that is relevant.
03:34.14Ralithmged should be in /usr/brlcad/bin/ for you
03:34.43n8r0xi know it's not. i'm curious.
03:34.48Ralithkk
03:34.51RalithI'm on FreeBSD
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03:35.23n8r0xthat's great. is there a port or a pkg for it?
03:35.33Ralithyeah
03:36.15n8r0xn8@paranix:/usr/brlcad/bin$ ls *mg*
03:36.16n8r0xasc-nmg  comgeom-g  g-nmg  nmg-bot  nmg-rib  nmg-sgp
03:36.18n8r0xthat's what i've got.
03:36.26Ralithweird
03:36.27n8r0xmged is simply not there.
03:36.35Ralithare you sure there weren't any errors when you compiled?
03:36.54n8r0x... checking ...
03:37.00Raliththere's a lot more than that that has 'mg' in it, mged aside
03:37.03Ralithyou're missing quite a bit
03:38.33n8r0xall i need are the sources right?
03:38.49Ralithassuming you have all of the sources, yes
03:39.05n8r0xthere's just one .bz2 file...
03:39.07n8r0xthat's what i got.
03:39.19Ralithwhere'd you get it from?
03:39.27n8r0xsourceforge
03:39.40Ralithlink?
03:40.12Ralithhttp://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292&package_id=113368 is what you want
03:40.27n8r0xhttp://brlcad.org/d/download
03:40.36n8r0xand then i clicked on linux.
03:40.45Raliththat's not sources
03:40.55Ralithyou want to click on 'source'
03:41.15n8r0xwell i was getting to that.
03:41.28n8r0xand then i noticed there were no 32bit bits...
03:41.34n8r0xso i switched to sources.
03:41.36n8r0xand here i am.
03:41.39Ralith'k
03:41.43n8r0xno x11 support, config says.
03:42.10Ralithyou probably don't have all the -dev packages you need installed
03:45.01Ralithn8r0x: that solve your problem?
03:46.32n8r0xno. i have to do something else, i imagine.
03:48.14Ralithlike what?
03:48.27Ralithjust install xlib-dev or w/e debian calls it and see how far that gets you.
03:48.34n8r0xah.
03:48.59Ralith(why binary-based distros never seem to install headers by default I'll never understand)
03:52.02n8r0x... installing.
03:53.14n8r0xconfigure: WARNING: X11 support is enabled but the Xi library was not found.
03:53.19n8r0xthat's the problem :(
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03:57.13n8r0xi normally use freebsd btw.
03:57.34n8r0xso 7-14.0 is in ports or pkgs?
04:02.02Ralithit's a little bit behind
04:02.04RalithI compiled from source
04:02.09Ralithby hand, that is
04:02.18Raliththen again, could be it's been updated since my latest ports sync
04:02.24Ralithn8r0x: you can install Xi pretty easily I'm sure
04:02.25Ralithbbs.
04:04.26n8r0xthis is bizzre.
04:04.33n8r0x*. now it's failing.
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04:22.49n8r0xwhat precisely is Xi, Ralith?
04:22.58Ralithno idea
04:23.19n8r0xbombardier.c:36:16: error: tk.h: No such file or directory
04:23.22n8r0xbah. it's bombing.
04:23.55Ralithlike I said
04:23.59Ralithyou need all the -dev packages
04:24.05n8r0xoh.
04:24.09Ralith:P
04:24.13n8r0xhow do i know what i'm missing?
04:24.20n8r0xi already installed xlib-dev.
04:24.25Ralithlook up the dependencies
04:24.55Raliththen install all the corresponding dev packages
04:24.55n8r0xbah. i'm surprised there isn't a 32bit .deb for it at all.
04:27.13n8r0xi think i know what may be wrong.
04:27.16n8r0xthis is etch...
04:27.37n8r0xand the current version of brlcad is interested in lenny.
04:27.41Ralithunlikely
04:27.52Ralithbrl-cad is very good at compiling on just about any system
04:27.56Ralithassuming you have all the deps
04:28.10n8r0xis there a list somewhere?
04:28.17n8r0xi've been relying on the error messages.
04:31.25Ralithlook at configure's output for starters
07:30.23starseekergets 1/10th through the final pdf build of the Mark VIII handbook, and decides sleep is now in order...
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12:33.59mafmhi
12:35.58Ralithhey
12:36.17Ralithmafm: I was wondering -- is there a reason you didn't hook the new GUI's command line up to a TCL interpreter?
12:42.38mafmbecause I don't know much about TCL, for once
12:43.07mafmit just didn't occur to me
12:43.11mafm:)
12:43.55Ralithkk
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14:07.50brlcadmoin d_rossberg
14:08.36brlcadRalith: the goal for the new modeler is to be able to have pluggable interpreters
14:10.11brlcadsitting on top of the generalized command interface, bind through either via a swig-style interface or manually hook in the four or so that would be nice to have from the start (tcl, posix shell, python, lisp)
14:12.14``Erikruby? lua? perl?
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14:21.38d_rossbergbrlcad: good morning
14:23.12brlcadml? tcsh? scheme? java? php?
14:24.11brlcadthere are good reasons for lots of languages, but in-order, the highest return on investment is to work on those four in that order first ..
14:25.00brlcadif they're done, it conceivably should be all set up to hook in most languages then because it will cover interactive and non-interactive, procedural functional and object-based
14:26.40``Erik*shrug* perhaps :)
14:27.04``Eriklast time I threw out a survey, perl was very high on the list of what people wanted, but that was many years ago
14:27.57``Eriknotes that lithp ith teh aweshome becauthe it doeth all three of thothe paradigmth O:-)
14:28.28``ErikI'm still a bit freaked out about dynamically redefining classes on live data with CLOS
14:31.45``Erikhelpdesk sucks, this is day #2 that they're just not answering their phone
14:33.06archivisthelpdesk and xmas is an oxymoron
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14:58.47brlcaddoing those first doesn't mean !perl
15:00.40brlcador any other language for that matter -- if someone wanted to work on their favorite language X, so be it -- just not what our priority should be on to implement first
15:01.32brlcadtcl and shell because that's our existing interface/userbase/knowledgebase, and it unifies our two command-lines
15:03.07brlcadpython to get a fairly modern OO lang and (more importantly) it leverages the blender scripting userbase
15:03.54brlcadlisp is mostly a leverage on the autocad userbase since that's their scripting layer
15:04.43brlcadfrom there, it's mostly language zealotry or more obscure justifications for anything else -- those four have the biggest impact potential
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19:13.18``Erikhum
19:13.52``Erikrichard was in asking questions that pose an interesting scenario that may need to be addressed
19:15.26``Erikptr = malloc(zomfghuge); if(ptr) dograndthings(ptr) else /* ohs noes, little memory available */ dolotsoflittlethings(ptr);
19:15.55``Eriks/malloc/bu_malloc/   uh oh, no way dolotsoflittlethings() is ever reached, no graceful recovery, pandas are sad all over
19:16.20``ErikI recommended using regular malloc carefully and commenting on the decision to him, but it may be a valid things to look at in libbu?
19:20.11``Erik(plus, mentioned mmap to him, we'll see what happens *mwahahaha*)
19:30.11CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33403 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/mged.c: If fail to open an existing database, reset dbip and material head before returning.
20:22.48CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03r_weiss * r33404 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/tedit.c: ws
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21:42.00brlcad``Erik: bu_malloc has a graceful recovery path, you BU_SETJMP
21:42.22``Erikhrm, from inside of bomb?
21:42.39brlcadno, in your code before any code that might bomb (like bu_malloc)
21:42.59``Erikah, in bu_exit
21:43.13``Erikwas looking for longjump
21:43.22``ErikI'll walk around the corner and let him know
21:44.02brlcadif (BU_SETJUMP) { BU_UNSETJUMP; dolotsoflittlethings(); } bu_malloc_or_else_stuff();
21:45.18brlcadthe code will jump to the BU_SETJUMP position so usually have an if/else, and do recovery in the if-section and work in the else-section
21:45.38brlcadmost of the converters do this already, see for examples
21:45.53brlcadsince the nmg routines throw bombs left and right as part of their normal operations
21:47.32brlcadmmap() is probably still a better way, or working in a stream fashion so you never have more than a little bit in memory at a time
21:49.31brlcadbu_bomb() calls longjmp() if BU_SETJUMP is set
21:50.58``Erikhe claims he needs to make many passes of the data
21:52.07``Erikbu_exit() calls longjmp, actually, but *shrug*
21:54.58brlcader, no it doesn't..
21:55.11brlcadat least not directly
21:56.51brlcadsrc/libbu/bomb.c .. bu_exit() is the tiny func at the bottom, line 199, no longjmp()
22:00.30CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33405 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/bomb.c: why do we bother to init the vls in bu_exit() if we might not use it
22:06.45``Erikoh, my bad, heh, saw the macro fu, thought that was it, but it's over on 118
22:07.55``Erikwonders if we need bu_mmap() to wrap the winderz CreateFileMapping/MapViewOfFile charlie foxtrot
22:12.29brlcadthis guy seems to have some wrappers, http://www.genesys-e.de/jwalter/mix4win.htm
22:13.32brlcadbut yeah, doesn't use either of those two -- Map
22:13.42brlcadMapViewOfFile is probably the way to go
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22:56.04Ralithbrlcad, so, using SWiG to bind all the editing functions?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081220

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081220

00:01.03CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33406 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (Makefile.am human.c): Stub in a procdb for the purpose of creating human-type models - right now the idea is to serve as a framework where work can proceed - no actual geometry creation takes place yet.
01:51.22mafmnight
04:41.24brlcadstarseeker: memory leak on the vls
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05:52.16CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33407 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c: Free vls strings once we're done with them in human.c
05:53.20starseekerbrlcad:  See if this looks like an improvement on text readibility for the Mark VIII article:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/MarkVIII/MarkVIII_Rock_Island.pdf
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06:10.20brlcadstarseeker: not particularly
06:10.34brlcadit's worse in some places and worse in others
06:11.39brlcadthe per-letter errors are pretty drastic
06:14.20brlcadyou can see a nice comparison here, http://brlcad.org/tmp/compare.png
06:15.29brlcadoverall, obviously darker but words like "weigh" and "when" there are noticably worse
06:18.01brlcadand you still have a vls memory leak in there
06:28.04CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33408 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/human.c: Free the vls string in the help function.
06:28.20starseekerbrlcad:  Any suggestions for algorithms that can be used to enhance text?
06:59.07starseekerI'm trying various edge detection routines, but none will produce error-free results by the nature of the input data
07:15.50starseekertries thresholding + Gaussian blur to coax faint pixels into the limelight...
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13:40.10brlcadstarseeker: for that data, probably a mix of localized fuzzy (i.e. magic wand) selection and color curve (mostly constract) enhancement
13:55.55brlcadoh nice, the smart shapen filter in PS does a pretty decent job by itself
16:18.54DanielFalckbrlcad: is there any way to create 'pipes' with brlcad? I think there is something related to creating wires/pipes from reading the source, but I haven't seen the docs on it. thanks
16:19.38DanielFalckI want to be able to produce elbows that are tangent to straight pipes
18:04.45*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@91.102.231.33)
18:04.46brlcadDanielFalck: yes, and it's even called the 'pipe' primitive ;)
18:05.07brlcadthere's a mini-tutorial in the Principles of Effective Modeling doc on the website
18:06.01csanyipalHi, again, a small problem with rytracing on Debian GNU/Linux Etch system with BRL-CAD version Release 7.14.1
18:08.31csanyipalI have selected Underly  option in Raytracing Control Panel and when click on Raytrace button I can't see the wireframe of the shapes2.r in the Lesson 4 in the tutorial Introduction_to_MGED.pdf (34 page).
18:13.44brlcadhowdy csanyipal
18:14.05brlcadcsanyipal: we were just talking about the underlay/overlay bug yesterday
18:14.26brlcadit's been there for a while, was just recently fixed in archer but not in mged yet
18:14.45brlcadcsanyipal: Misc menu, turn on the Z option
18:15.09brlcadand maybe toggle lighting, it's dependent on which of those are on/off
18:15.55csanyipalok, when I turn off Misc / Z option, I can see the green wireframe. Thanks!
18:16.04brlcadsure ;)
18:31.26DanielFalckbrlcad: thanks- found the document and section on pipe
19:35.33DanielFalckbrlcad: sorry for the next question: are there any examples showing actual use of pipe command with actual points and radius' given?  the 'effective modelling' doc give theory, but I can't find any examples.
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19:36.04DanielFalckusing the gui, one seems to have no way of editing parameters, that I can see
19:52.08DanielFalckI'm using "put {p1} pipe V0 { 0 0 -1000 } O0 500 I0 125 R0 500 V1 { 0 0 1000 } O1 500 I1 12
19:52.08DanielFalck5 R1 500
19:52.08DanielFalck"
19:52.13DanielFalckand it works
19:52.26DanielFalckbut - is there a simpler way? via command line
21:18.24brlcadDanielFalck: parameters can generally be specified via the 'p' command
21:19.11brlcadyou could use the 'in' command
21:19.42brlcadyou could also create a pipe and then use the sed command to edit the pipe, and combinations of push "menu option" coupled with 'p' commands to add/set values
21:33.46DanielFalckbrlcad: thank you
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22:19.16csanyipalso long!
22:19.22brlcadcya!
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22:53.14starseekerraises eyebrows - the Google tesseract engine did a decent OCR on page 84 of the handbook
23:18.23starseekernot perfect, but ok
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23:59.05sporty_PrezKennedy: i still want to marry 'em!!
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081221

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081221

00:30.57*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
01:37.02starseekerHmm, this is interesting:  http://www.discover.uottawa.ca/~qchen/my_papers/master_thesis.pdf
03:21.42brlcadstarseeker: did you see the sharpen comparison?  (can you read psd's?)
04:06.57starseekerbrlcad:  I saw the comparison image you put up on bz
04:08.03starseekerer brlcad.org rather
04:09.32starseekerDoes Gimp have anything like Photoshop's intelligent sharpen?
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08:37.57starseekerbrlcad:  Or there's the good old brute force manual solution:  http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/MarkVIII/Rock_Island_transcript.pdf
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17:11.27brlcadstarseeker: I think manual is the way to go if hardbound is the end goal ;)
17:11.29brlcadlooks great
17:20.39brlcadotherwise, this looks like it's doing a similar algorithm via manual steps: http://www.gimp.org/tutorials/Smart_Sharpening/
17:25.03jonoredSeems like it should only be a bit of scheme work to make that into automatic...
17:32.41brlcadah, and looks like he redid it with a little fewer steps:  http://www.gimpguru.org/Tutorials/SmartSharpening2/
17:36.25brlcadyeah, script-fu or python-fu should do the trick to tie it together into an automation
18:10.44DanielFalckbrlcad: fyi- I am happily making coils of pipe in brlcad this morning.  It's the little things in life ....
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20:26.51brlcadDanielFalck: hehe, totally understand ;)
20:27.48DanielFalckbrlcad: here's another question for you: is it possible to extrude a different closed shape along a path, similar to 'pipe'
20:28.11DanielFalcklike a triangle to make a thread form?
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20:31.21brlcadahh, alas, no -- there was a summer of code project to implement exactly that but it wasn't completed
20:31.42brlcadthe project involved implementing revolve and sweep, they only got through most of revolve
20:31.43DanielFalckok, no problem
20:32.07DanielFalckso we can't revolve a profile yet either?
20:32.38brlcadno, revolves are mostly complete -- there are a few loose ends still but most of it is done
20:33.16DanielFalckthat's good news.  I'll be using a lot of 'revolve' commands- I do a lot of turning on cnc lathes
20:33.48brlcadthe biggest part of revolve that wasn't completed was support for bezier curves -- right now it's limited to line segments and arcs iirc
20:34.10DanielFalckwell that's perfect for me- I only need lines and arcs for what I do
20:34.21DanielFalckcan you give me a little lesson on trying it out?
20:34.31DanielFalckI compiled svn this week
20:35.25brlcadhave you made an extrude yet?
20:35.32brlcadmaking a revolve isn't much diferent
20:35.44DanielFalckoh yes, got that working
20:35.57DanielFalckthanks for all the help , by the way
20:44.49brlcadso with revolve, you make a sketch -- ideally one that is a right-contour of your shape with positive values -- then create a revolve that positions and uses that sketch with an angle of revolution (see the 'in' command)
20:50.22DanielFalckso is the command 'in rev1 revolve' etc... ?
20:57.29DanielFalckbrlcad: what is the 'start plane' in revolve? thanks
21:04.48DanielFalckok, got it to work
21:24.10*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081222

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081222

00:52.13*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177872035.dsl.bell.ca)
00:53.25IriX64http://rafb.net/p/fqubIR96.html   <--- outta my league here, i don't parle` cpp too well.
00:54.03IriX64used ./configure (svn as of half an hour ago)
01:01.40*** join/#brlcad novakyu (i=novakyu@lecont-156-003.Physics.Berkeley.EDU)
01:01.49novakyuhi
01:02.43novakyui have a question about converting from BRL-CAD to a format that can be opened in other 3D CAD programs like SolidWorks and Unigraphics
01:03.14novakyui've tried converting to a few formats like IGES and DXF, but none of them seem to work at all
01:03.58novakyuVRML produces something that does resemble the original drawing, but a lot of details are wrong and i get lets of web-like things.
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03:15.59brlcadnovakyu: so what was your question?
03:34.49DanielFalckbrlcad: I seem to be getting tessellation failure when trying to do a g-stl of a revolved part.  Any ideas on how to trouble shoot it? thanks
03:35.30DanielFalckdoing " g-stl -o prof2.stl prof2.g rev1"
03:48.10novakyubrlcad: i have a part drawn in BRL-CAD
03:48.43novakyui want to send it to someone who uses Unigraphics or SolidWorks, but i can't seem to convert it to any compatible format
03:49.26novakyui've tried some of the g-* converters (without special options), but doesn't really seem to work
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04:53.37brlcadDanielFalck: ah, I'm pretty sure tessellation of revolves has not been implemented yet
04:53.59DanielFalckthat would be the reason. thanks.
04:54.14brlcadnovakyu: yes, I understood that -- but you said you had a question -- what's the question? :)
04:54.36brlcadDanielFalck: hm, hadn't thought of that for the way you're using it..
04:54.44brlcadkinda critical, my bad
04:55.07brlcadmaybe someone(tm) will get ambitious over the next week
04:55.12DanielFalckis that one pretty involved to finish?
04:55.19DanielFalckok
04:55.20DanielFalckthanks
04:55.32brlcadnot really, no more complicated than extrude
04:55.57DanielFalckwhen you get a chance, try it out a bit and see what you think of the implementation
04:56.13DanielFalckseems a little weird to me or I'm probably  missing something
04:57.17brlcadsomething in particular seems wierd?
04:57.37DanielFalckI don't really understand the vector in start plane part
04:58.11DanielFalcksay I try and revolve a rectangle that has corners at 0 0 and 6,4
04:58.15DanielFalckaround the x axis
04:58.29DanielFalckI take it that the vertex is 0 0 0
04:58.38DanielFalckand the revolve axis could be 1 0 0
04:59.39DanielFalckI don't know what vector in start plane should be (without just screwing with it and coming up with stuff by trial and error)
05:00.29DanielFalckrevolving around Y I used 0 0 0   0 1 0  and 0 0 1 to get what I thought it should do
05:00.46DanielFalckso I'm just clueless as usual : )
05:00.55brlcadthe vector in start plane sounds like the rotational orientation
05:01.23DanielFalckok, as in what direction to rotate?
05:01.34DanielFalckcw or ccw depending on the vector
05:01.36brlcadso it's revolving around the x-axis in your example, but where is the starting point -- that'd be the vector
05:02.00brlcadno, the rotation is probably purely based on the revolve axis
05:02.04brlcad1 0 0 vs -1 0 0
05:02.06DanielFalckok, so vector is starting point
05:02.34brlcadbasically
05:02.56brlcadbasically defining a starting "L" for the rotation
05:03.04DanielFalckok
05:03.17DanielFalck2 vectors then
05:03.20brlcadright
05:03.30DanielFalckok, that makes sense now
05:03.35DanielFalckright hand rule
05:03.43brlcadbetter be :)
05:04.16DanielFalckanother tesselation clue that I should have caught was that rendering doesn't work
05:04.37DanielFalckI just got some random pixels in the frame buffer
05:04.53DanielFalckso the mystery is solved
05:05.03brlcadhm, ray-tracing should be all working
05:05.14brlcadray-tracing doesn't involve tessellation
05:05.29brlcaddid the wireframe look right?
05:05.30DanielFalckactually, it worked in one case, but not in several others
05:05.36DanielFalckthe wireframe was ok
05:05.45DanielFalckI can send you the offending file , if you want
05:05.54brlcadthen probably some rendering bug -- you're probably the second person to try using it
05:06.17DanielFalckI generated a dxf of an odd shape and revolved it
05:06.57brlcadhm, yeah, post up/send your .g
05:07.11DanielFalckwhere at?
05:07.14DanielFalckemail?
05:07.49brlcadmind filling out a tracker?  it'll get more visibility
05:07.56DanielFalckok, can do that
05:08.01DanielFalckI can attach the file
05:08.11brlcadhttps://sourceforge.net/tracker2/?func=add&group_id=105292&atid=640802
05:08.12DanielFalckI have a sourceforge account
05:17.12DanielFalckOk, added to bugtracker
05:19.47brlcadcool, thanks
05:25.52DanielFalckshould I put in a request for completion of tessellation, or is that already on your list?
05:27.23novakyubrlcad: oh, the question would be ... how do i convert from .g to a format that's readable by SolidWorks or Unigraphics?
05:28.18brlcadDanielFalck: can't ever hurt
05:28.26CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33409 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: implement tess() too
05:28.43brlcadthere were a few remaining items, but tess specifically wasn't listed (but is now)
05:30.50brlcadnovakyu: that would be one of the exporters that you've been trying to use, g-dxf g-iges g-obj g-stl g-x3d are all probably formats supported by those two
05:31.22brlcadthe issue is more the geometric representation transformation that occurs when you go from our format to one of those
05:32.08brlcadours predominantly uses implicit geometry (smooth surfaces) .. not a faceted geometry, so it has to try and tessellate the geometry to do the export
05:32.57brlcadtessellation is a rather tricky business -- very sensitive to tolerances, geometry, model size, geometry in use, operations, and proper region levels
05:40.54DanielFalckbrlcad: sorry I put that in the wrong category. I'll be better next time. thanks
05:43.29brlcadno big deal :)
05:43.38brlcadthanks for taking the time
05:46.33*** join/#brlcad pacman87 (n=timothy@pool-71-170-39-105.dllstx.fios.verizon.net)
05:46.49brlcadspeak of the devil :)
05:46.55pacman87just read the email ;)
05:46.57brlcadhowdy pacman87
05:47.04pacman87can i get a copy of the *.g, too?
05:47.12brlcadpacman87: it's on the tracker
05:47.28brlcadsee the one the image was moved to
05:48.23pacman87ok, thanks
05:48.36brlcadhttps://sourceforge.net/tracker2/?func=detail&aid=2457559&group_id=105292&atid=640805  and  https://sourceforge.net/tracker2/?func=detail&aid=2457527&group_id=105292&atid=640802
05:48.47brlcadthe bug is the latter
05:50.02pacman87ok, thanks
05:50.12pacman87this semester got pretty busy for me
05:50.38pacman87last week of class i was up for 52 hours trying to finish everything
05:50.52pacman87senior design project and another project
05:51.04DanielFalckwhat's your major?
05:51.09pacman87ME/EE
05:51.13DanielFalckwow
05:52.12pacman87well, time to check out a new copy of the source
05:55.27brlcadpacman87: sounds like it's been fun :)
05:55.56pacman87for certain definitions of "fun"
05:55.58brlcadunderstandable that you've not been around -- that's a nice workload there
05:56.09pacman8717 hours, 2 labs all engr
05:56.19pacman87including the sr. design project
06:06.27pacman87compiling, time for bed now
06:06.32pacman87back to work in the morning :)
06:08.22novakyubrlcad: so, you mean i have to play with options?
07:08.24brlcadnovakyu: that's a start -- also making sure that the geometry you're trying to export is properly modeled
07:42.29novakyuso, here's some problem i've been having, then.
07:43.47novakyuwhen i have a region with two rcc shapes (at right angles, just touching or crossing each other) and i export that to VRML, i get webs between the two rods
07:44.06novakyuis this just an issue with VRML or does it sound like i'm doing something wrong?
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12:57.51skitterhalo, halo!
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14:37.30brlcadhowdy
14:37.55DanielFalckgood morning brlcad
14:38.00brlcadmornin!
14:40.16DanielFalckyour sgi script and the pipe command have given me an idea...maybe not a good one, but I think I could probably use brlcad to simulate machining away blocks of steel - ala cnc machine code
14:40.33DanielFalckkind of a 'backplot' of the cnc code
14:41.22brlcadthat actually sounds pretty cool
14:41.31DanielFalckstart with the block of steel and nibble away at it with a solid in the shape of the end mill/cutter
14:42.35DanielFalckwith the revolve command it might even be possible to show a shape being turned
14:42.36brlcadnods
14:42.55brlcadthat would look pretty interesting unevaluated
14:43.15brlcadand then the raytrace should show what evaluated will look like
14:43.21DanielFalckI'll keep learning brlcad and see what I can do
14:43.32brlcadpresumably the cutter head would be the pipe diameter?
14:43.39DanielFalckyes.  the final raytrace would be very realistic
14:43.53DanielFalckyes, the pipe dia
14:43.59DanielFalckfor a ball end mill
14:44.11brlcadnods
14:44.17DanielFalckmany many cylinders for a flat end mill
14:44.31DanielFalckcones for engraving v-bits
14:45.23DanielFalcklooking at the sgi script, animation is surely possible- so that would be good too
14:45.41DanielFalckah, the dreams I can come up with :)
14:46.54brlcadyeah, that would be awesome
14:49.46DanielFalckthe 'help' command in mged is very good for me
14:50.03DanielFalckI'm exploring
14:50.37brlcad:)
14:55.58starseekeris freezing
14:56.23starseekernote to self - check weather report BEFORE heading to work
15:22.53CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33410 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ged.c: Modified ged_open() to acquire a new RT material head.
15:25.31CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33411 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (cmd.c mged.c mged.h setup.c): Initial modifications to make libged commands available to MGED. The first test case exposes the gqa command.
15:32.09CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33412 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am attr.xml): Add attr command Docbook, Janine and Cliff
15:34.54CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33413 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (cmd.c mged.h setup.c): Exposing libged's tire command.
15:38.04CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33414 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am autoview.xml): Add docbook autoview man page - conversion by Janine and Cliff
15:42.44CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33415 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am bev.xml): Add docbook bev man page - conversion by Janine and Cliff
15:51.33CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33416 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/Makefile.am: Add docbook bot_condense man page - conversion by Janine and Cliff
15:52.28CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33417 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/bot_condense.xml: Uh, yeah... add the man page too, not just the Makefile.am change...
15:55.07brlcadgo go janine go :)
15:56.30skitterbrlcad: who's janine? One of PrezKennedy's daughters? If yes, I want to marry her!
15:57.13CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33418 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: more conversion of documentation to docbook format, thx janine (and cliff via proxy)
15:57.40brlcadskitter: i'm sure she's somebody's daughter, but not PrezKennedy's
15:58.05skitterbrlcad: is it a song?
15:58.49brlcadis what a song?
15:58.51skitterbrlcad: "go janine, go, ...yeah! go janine go" - is it a song i don't know?
15:59.19brlcadit may be, but if it is, I don't know about that song either
15:59.51skitterbrlcad: am i right to think i need to add final version of my work into the brl-cad's tracker - and wait untill someone can implement it?
16:00.20skitterbrlcad: then what do your words "go go janine go" mean?
16:00.55brlcadyou should add the final version of your work to the tracker and get one of us to review/commit it, yes
16:01.16brlcadthose words express appreciation and excitement for the progress janine made this week
16:01.34brlcadsee all the cia lines preceeding
16:02.39brlcadstarseeker: and the news line isn't to diminish your efforts on that item -- just sharing the love
16:03.11brlcadwelcome to add yourself in
16:03.37brlcadneeds to get it tagged today before parker does too much damage :)
16:05.02skitterok
16:53.28starseekerbrlcad:  np :-)
17:01.29skitterstarseeker: or brlcad: am i right when i think if i say to my folks my account on sourceforge.net - they can see what have i up-loaded to open source projects?
17:04.16brlcadskitter: if they know the project, sure
17:04.30brlcador from your account, you can certainly see your submissions on your user page
17:05.41skitterbrlcad: but can this account show my 'feats' to random users?
17:08.28skitteri mean i can not browse rules and terms of sourceforge to-and-fro - can users "go" to, say, skitter-z-skater.sourceforge.net - and see what projects i am in and what exactly am i do for those projects. Have to save non-cheap internet traffic - that's a source of my lame questions :(
17:08.42skitteralso, eyes pain from computer last time :(
17:09.02brlcadskitter: you can show your feats to random users by showing them your user page, otherwise the contributions are spread out across the projects you contribute to
17:09.19brlcadif they're all with one project, then yeah, it's pretty easily to get the summary from any of the tracker pages
17:10.38skitterbrlcad: ok, i will keep it on my mind next time i will re-arrange my page. i have only 100 kb of plain text of mged cmd index - and i'm re-vising old xml files with aspell and try to smooth it.
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18:54.31CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33419 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am bot_decimate.xml): Add docbook bot_decimate man page - conversion by Janine and Cliff
18:58.35CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33420 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am bot_face_fuse.xml): Add docbook bot_face_fuse man page - conversion by Janine and Cliff
19:03.36CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33421 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am bot_face_sort.xml): Add docbook bot_face_sort man page - conversion by Janine and Cliff
19:08.54CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33422 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am bot_vertex_fuse.xml): Add docbook bot_vertex_fuse man page - conversion by Janine and Cliff
19:16.40CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33423 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am build_region.xml): Add docbook build_region man page - conversion by Janine and Cliff
19:22.33CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33424 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am c.xml): Add docbook c man page - conversion by Janine and Cliff
19:28.14CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33425 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am cat.xml): Add docbook cat man page - conversion by Janine and Cliff
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20:04.18skitterbrlcad: where can i get GL/glu.h in ubuntu? there's somethng wrong - insatiable dependencies and so on...
20:04.44skitter*impossible dependencies*
20:05.12skitteribot: glu.h
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21:39.42CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33426 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am center.xml): Add docbook center man page - conversion by Janine and Cliff
22:07.06yukonbobtosses a wrench after skitter
22:07.16yukonbobgotsta stick around if you want an answer
22:07.30archivisthe got answer next door
22:07.51yukonbob667, the neighbour of the beast
22:08.01archivisthe was loading EMC2
22:09.54yukonbob?"emc2"
22:10.53yukonbobeletro-magnetic colander ver. 2?
22:11.56archivistcnc control software http://www.linuxcnc.org
22:12.50yukonbobnice...
22:20.44CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33427 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am color.xml): Add docbook color man page - conversion by Janine and Cliff
22:24.35CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33428 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am comb_color.xml): Add docbook comb_color man page - conversion by Janine and Cliff
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22:31.19CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33429 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am copyeval.xml): Add docbook copyeval man page - conversion by Janine and Cliff
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22:35.23CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33430 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am copymat.xml): Add docbook copymat man page - conversion by Janine and Cliff
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081223

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081223

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00:45.55mafmnight
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10:28.46mafmhi
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13:55.05brlcadhowdy mafm
13:57.50Axman6i love thew pace of this channel
14:25.48PrezKennedyJRin another two hours i can respond to that
14:25.49PrezKennedyJR:p
14:44.37brlcadAxman6: surges for several days on end, and then hours and hours of silence? :)
14:44.56Axman6more the other way around, but yes :)
14:45.18Axman6uh, pretend i said that in half an hour, ok?
15:01.59brlcadk ;)
15:03.15Axman6so, any big brl-cad news?
15:06.43brlcadhow about that we just had our open source anniversary and I plan to hold a bug fix and feature request competition?
15:12.09Axman6which anniversary?
15:12.59Axman6Feature request #1: new awesome maya photoshop like interface, that doesn't need the commandline at all! fuck yeah!
15:13.54archivistsolid woksalike interface :)
15:14.17Axman6pure mouse gesture interface!
15:16.18brlcadheh
15:16.54brlcadwell for the competition, there will be something for folks that make a request, but they will have to be limited in scope to small incremental improvements
15:17.03brlcadsomething that can be done in less than two weeks
15:17.27brlcadbut even the feature request submitter will get something iff someone else implements the idea
15:17.39brlcad(or more if they implement the idea)
15:37.38brlcadideas are cheap, carefully thought out ideas are slightly more valuable, ideas that are detailed enough to be implementable are even more valuable, but ideas that are actually implemented is where the money is at ;)
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19:24.30CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33431 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: Exposing ged_view_update().
19:29.27CIA-33BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33432 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (libged/ged.c libtclcad/ged_obj.c): Moved some initialization code for "struct ged_view" from libtclcad/ged_obj.c to libged/ged.c
20:14.21*** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@91.102.231.33)
20:15.58csanyipalhello
20:16.43csanyipalBRL-CAD 7.14.1
20:17.26csanyipalIn MGED when I Create a shape, I get it in the Graphics Windows in Edit mode. Is it a normal behavior?
20:17.46csanyipalWhen I created it from the mneu
20:17.51csanyipalmenu
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22:39.33IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/JustCompiled.png
22:43.46IriX64same url finished.png :)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081224

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081224

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05:38.24csanyipalHello!
05:39.29pacman87good evening
05:39.48csanyipalHere is Morning. :)
05:41.11csanyipalI have BRL-CAD version 7.14.1
05:41.37csanyipalWhen I create from menu a shape, I get the shape in Edit mode. Is this a normal behavior?
05:44.32pacman87i just use 'in' from the command line window
05:45.35csanyipalok but I'm translating the Introduction to MGED.pedf tutorial and I want to know..
05:45.45pacman87if you wait around for a few hours, you should get a response from someone more knowledgable
05:45.46csanyipalpdf
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05:46.53skitterwill it be possible to edit pages in wiki, in "~/ru/wiki" folder?
05:49.22skitter...and to ratify the changes made by this wiki's user then?
05:50.13csanyipalI must go now in the school to work.. so long..
05:50.45skitterif yes, i need to re-vise 60 or so commands, part of them could not be viewed thru wiki engine, i think.
05:51.08brlcadcsanyipal: that is expected/normal behavior
05:51.24csanyipalbrlcad: thanks! :)
05:51.45skittercsanyipal: try to imagine that female-teachers teach you particular study-cases & put their clothes off simultaneously - helps!!!
05:52.03csanyipalskitter: :)
05:52.06brlcadskitter: you question doesn't make sense
05:52.16skitterbrlcad: ok, great.
05:52.16brlcadit's a wiki, so if you can edit it, you can edit it
05:52.52brlcad"~/ru/wiki" doesn't exist
05:53.04skitterbrlcad: then i need to transfer the rest into the xml. but i will have to do it manually
05:53.20skitterbrlcad: well, i meant...
05:53.35brlcadall of the docs are going to end up in docbook format, regardless of where they are now
05:54.03brlcadideally we will eventually have a means to edit the docbook masters through the website somehow
05:54.11brlcadwhether through the wiki or some other means
05:54.21brlcadso that editing can be bidirectional
05:55.15skitterbrlcad: i have loaded bad pages into the tracker - can i delete them and upload the new ones, as "finally translated" and "these ru .sml need a syntax check" ??
05:58.45skitterbrlcad: what if docbook has two paragraphs and an <arg></arg> arguments between them? will the wiki engine determine the grammar and build the page rightly in this case?
05:59.40skitterok, i see i can not delete them if i hadn't logged in when 've uploaded them...
06:03.23brlcadskitter: they're your tracker items, you can remove the files and/or add new ones or add more
06:03.29brlcads/more/multiple/
06:03.39skitteri think 1. i can not use programming to spread the text into the xml - and do it manually (more time, less healthy) 2. someone will modify xml - and i will check commands in wiki then (being able to edit 'source' xml in a right way by means of e.g. tracker). So i plan to upload the rest (it means whole work is finished) - and wait untill
06:04.42brlcadif it could be easily programmed into docbook/xml, it would have already been done
06:05.20brlcadthe "right way" is in the svn revision control system, that's where the official versions reside (or will reside)
06:05.35skitterbrlcad: yeah, the formula "s/more/multiple/" = "sexy / more / more then more" means the way software develops
06:05.38skitter:)
06:06.08skitterbrlcad: where is a root of svn?
06:06.53skitteruh... i can speed up the work then!
06:07.46brlcadsubstitute / this / that /
06:08.08brlcadthe root of svn .. is in our subversion repository
06:08.10skitterbrlcad: your strange slang says nothing to me!
06:08.22brlcadit's not slang, it's basic regular expression
06:08.24skitterbrlcad: and?
06:08.57skitterbrlcad: basic regular expression for humans are "i love you" and so on...
06:09.12skitterbrlcad.org/wiki/SVN - 9k ??
06:09.14brlcadand people only get commit access after they show competency with the commit rules, patch submission/application processes, and general well-being integration with existing developers
06:12.12yukonbobwaves in
06:12.15yukonbobhello, cadheads
06:12.37brlcadhowdy yukonbob
06:13.47yukonbobbrlcad: 8.5.6 released today...
06:16.46skitterno, previous upload wasn't under my account or failed.
06:16.48yukonbob^--- tcl/tk, of course ;)
06:17.23skitterok, reboot
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06:33.12skitterbrlcad: is this a trunk http://brlcad.org/wiki/Special:Upload ?
06:33.36skitterbrlcad: or only through the sourceforge?
06:44.51skitterfinally goes to fatty sourceforge
06:47.37skitterhucleberries fatty sourceforge at a day light ever! woring thru starseeker... wil have emailed him
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07:05.18skitterok, quitting
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08:37.31skitterstarseeker: final edition of the comands (lesser part) are in your e-mail box. Hope its syntax is good and all we need is just to turn wiki to quetion this files somewhere at the ~/ru folder on a server.
08:39.45skitteri said lesser because either those commands have left are tiny or my mged cmd index 7.10.2 isnt too new
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13:27.49Axman6merry christmas from Aus cadheads :)
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15:04.43brlcadthx Axman6
15:25.34``Erik*readreadread*
15:25.56``Erikwouldn't a flat end mill head in a straight line be subtracting an arb8, not a buttload of cylinders?
15:27.27``Erik668 would be the next door neighbor, 667 is across the street :D
15:29.00``Eriknotes that asking for a commit bit makes it take longer to get a commit bit
15:29.22``Erikokie, all caught up, time to ignore ya'll for a few more days :D
15:30.33brlcadI don't think he even knew what he was asking for or implying
15:31.20archivistheh I think he does know
15:32.09archivistcoming at it from a machinists view
15:32.19brlcaddoubtful, asking if http://brlcad.org/wiki/Special:Upload is a trunk is silly, his complaints about sf.net are about simply loading the http pages
15:33.15archivistsees talking about different people
15:38.54DanielFalck``Erik: yes you're right about the arb vs. a lot of cylinders
16:04.22WhiteCalfahaha its the one day of the year my brother is working and im not
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17:19.00playfulhotgirlis"dbconcat database_file [prefix]" or "dbconcat [prefix] database_file" ?? what order of the arguments?
17:21.06playfulhotgirlistime
17:22.26brlcaddbconcat [-p|-s] file.g [prefix|suffix]
17:36.54playfulhotgirlisbrlcad: sweet!
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19:29.33mafmbye
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22:32.52Axman6now this has some interesting models for some adventurous brl-cad user to replicate: http://www.dimensions-math.org/Dim_regarder_E_E.htm
22:41.37alex_joniAxman6: those are some really cool animations
22:42.04Axman6the whole series looks worth watching, i'm up to the 5th episode atm
22:42.42alex_jonijust started with the 2nd
22:43.55csanyipalHi, I try to make s model for the explanation of the azimuth in my translation of the "Introduction to MGED" tutorial.
22:44.14csanyipalI made a model for this purpose, it can see here:
22:44.16csanyipalhttp://s520.photobucket.com/albums/w327/csanyipal/?action=view&current=2_Lecke_XY_sik_proba.jpg
22:45.03csanyipalI ask how can I make a shape that is on this picture abowe a curve arrow?
23:23.08Axman6csanyipal: just curious, which language are you translating to, and is 'sik' plane in it?
23:25.22csanyipalIt is in Hungarian and yes, sik is a plan.
23:25.38csanyipalthis plane is an arb8
23:26.02csanyipal1 mm high
23:26.09Axman6righto :)
23:26.28Axman6it's been a long time since i've played with brl-cad actually. need to check it out again
23:26.32Ralithwhat happens if you intersect a true plane with a volume, anyway?
23:26.40Ralith(i.e. arb8 with only 4 unique coords)
23:29.49csanyipalRalith: If I understand you correct, you get a plan that isn't an infinite plane.
23:31.01Ralithcsanyipal, but what happens when you intersect that with a volume?
23:31.48csanyipalRalith: theorethical, or in MGED?
23:32.08Ralithas rendered
23:32.19Ralithmged won't care
23:32.55csanyipalRalith: first, I can't to create a plane in MGED..
23:33.02Ralithyes you can
23:33.07csanyipalhow?
23:33.11Ralitharb8 with all points on a plane
23:33.34Ralithiow a rectangular prism with one dimension = 0
23:33.35csanyipalYou mena an arb8 that hasn't a hight?
23:33.43csanyipalmean
23:34.16Raliththat is one example of the set of shapes I described.
23:38.21csanyipalSo, to get a "curve cylinder" I must first to make a torus, and two planes and then with boolean regulars I must to get an intersect of these shapes?
23:39.51csanyipalAre there a simpler method for this?
23:46.56Ralithwhat's a "curve cylinder"?
23:47.14Ralithlook at the mged quick reference sheet; there's lots of primitives that might be what you want
23:50.32csanyipal"curve cylinder" doesn't exist I just call it this way to explain somehow what kind of shape I need..
23:52.37csanyipalThis shape is on the picture in the "Introduction to MGED" tutorial at the page 18.
23:53.02csanyipalThe "Azimuth, Elevation, and the xyz Coordinate System" picture
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23:54.23csanyipalthis is  the shape that represents the Azimuth on this picture
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081225

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081225

00:11.20*** part/#brlcad misteriexous (n=ubuntu@217.118.79.39)
00:12.39csanyipalso long
00:34.55brlcadthere is also a "plane" primitive .. the "half" halfspace primitive will make an infinite plane
01:10.06Ralithbrlcad, ah, cool. What happens when you try to intersect something with it?
01:25.53brlcadit does what you'd expect -- it's "half" of infinity, so if you intersect a vehicle with it, you'll get a cutting plane
01:26.11Ralithoh
01:26.14Ralithnot the kind of plane I had in mind
01:26.29brlcadwhat did you have in mind?
01:26.38brlcadit's not infinitely thin
01:26.53Ralithinfinitely thin was what I was going for
01:26.57brlcadah
01:27.10brlcadsolid modeling, everything has to have a thickness ;)
01:27.17Raliththat's what I thought
01:28.10brlcadit would be interesting/useful to have a user-specific non-zero thickness parameter, but then that wouldn't be a halfspace any longer unless they specified infinity
01:28.35Ralithnothing wrong with a rename.
01:28.52brlcadyou can get the same effect with two halfspaces that overlap with whatever thickness
01:29.02Raliththought that might work; neat
01:29.37brlcadit's not an optimized primitive, so depending on what you're doing -- you might be much better off using arb8's anyways
01:29.47Ralithoptimized?
01:30.23brlcadit'll slow down a ray-trace rendering
01:31.12Ralithah.
01:31.58brlcadmost of the primitives are optimized, but not the way that one is implemented given how it extends to infinity -- every ray has to test against it
01:32.31Ralithseems pretty quick to test against, though
01:32.37brlcadso like if you wanted to chop an object in half, it'd usually be much faster to use a box instead of a half
01:35.01Ralithso I think we've discussed this before but I don't recall the details and I have more questions anyway; what is/will be the most effective way to get a 2D slice through an object with as little data loss as possible, for purposes such as g-code generation?
01:35.56Raliththe best I can come up with right now is make a very thin slice and do a orthographic render at very high from directly overhead, then fit splines to it.
01:36.06Ralithbut that's really cheating.
01:36.15Ralithat very high resolution*
01:45.04brlcadthat's a perfectly viable approach actually, not far off what some of the commercial engines do effectively
01:45.40Ralithyes, it would *work*
01:46.14Ralithbut I'd feel so much better about a workflow that didn't deliberately drop information and then desperately try to reconstruct as much as possible
01:46.49brlcadnaturally ;)
01:47.24Ralithnot to mention the complexities and accuracy issues of path tracing algos in and of themselves.
01:48.41brlcadyou could get that pretty accurate just because you'd have knowledge of object boundaries
01:48.57brlcadmostly limited by your sampling resolution, which could be pretty intense as needed
01:49.03brlcadbut like you said, less than ideal
01:49.50brlcadthe alternate approach requires brep support to be complete
01:50.25brlcadyou'd request a brep outline for all objects and then project them onto a plane
01:50.59Ralithso is brep support something that's being evaluated, or even developed?
01:51.22brlcadit's the top-priority of the year, been under development for over a year now
01:51.34Ralithoo!
01:51.37Ralithencouraging!
01:51.42brlcadthere's basic support in there already
01:51.50Ralithhow far along would you say things are?
01:51.54brlcadsome forms will even ray-trace correctly
01:52.04Ralithforms?
01:52.29brlcaddifferent types of surface evaluations
01:53.11brlcadif you fire a ray at an object, do you get 1, 2, 3, 4, ... N intersections with the surface, when are you inside/outside, how to deal with numerical instability, etc
01:53.30Ralithah.
01:53.32brlcadthere are a lot of problems that need to be solved still, but this is being driven by several priorities
01:53.40Ralithgreat!
01:53.41Ralith:D
01:54.02Raliththis is one of the things I like about BRL-CAD
01:54.14brlcadthe brep/nurbs work is the foudation of interactive (opengl) visualizations, step conversion support, and more
01:54.41Ralithas a project, it has a great tendency to already be working on all the really neat ideas that you generally don't see bandied about outside of theory.
01:55.52Ralithso that's how it relates to the tesselation stuff. Remembered you saying something about that last time this came up but didn't follow the connection.
01:56.21Raliththanks for the info :)
01:56.43brlcadthe same thing that would let us ask for a contour for projection onto a plane to get splines is basic to the brep form
01:57.17brlcadfrom there, you can easily tessellate as it (presuming we have implemented csg evaluation of brep-on-brep objects)
01:57.36Ralithwhat field of study most completely encompasses this sort of thing?
01:57.48brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/BRL-CAD_Priorities.png  <-- bottom-left priority
01:57.56Ralithcomputational gemoetry?
01:58.27brlcader, loosely/sorta/not-really
01:58.48Ralithdidn't think so.
01:59.03brlcadit does and it doesn't -- CG covers some of the fundamental algorithms and generally assumes clean numerics
02:00.05Ralith'clean numerics' meaning no loss of precision due to fp inaccuracies etc.?
02:00.17brlcadfrom there you can build up the more complicated algorithms, but without resorting to fixed-point arithmetic (and taking a massive performance penalty -- like two orders of magnitude) there are lots of practical implementation problems that still have to be addressed
02:02.37Ralithso *is* there such a thing as a formal field of study covering this sort of real-world implementation?
02:02.58Ralith(also: that poster is beautiful. Who put it together?)
02:04.46brlcadthere's lots of work in the area of solid modeling research -- an acm conference dedicated to it as well as a few others
02:05.50brlcadthere are just literally hundreds of algorithms and issues in any given CAD or solid modeling system, boundary structure evaluation just being a small set of them
02:06.37Ralithof course.
02:09.26brlcadoh, and I put that poster together
02:09.59Ralithnice!
02:10.01Ralithwhat'd you lay it out in?
02:10.09brlcadhm
02:10.41brlcadprobably either Pages or InDesign, don't recall
02:11.07Ralithpages?
02:11.38brlcadit never went out to the list because it got a less than favorable review by one the editors at arl, said it was too confusing and too many words
02:11.55Ralithbah.
02:12.01brlcadhttp://www.apple.com/iwork/pages/
02:12.11Ralithit's a technical subject. Walls of text are par for the course.
02:13.26Ralithunless it was supposed to be some sort of general-audience PR material, but I can't imagine what most of a general audience would want to do with BRL-CAD in the first place.
02:16.32brlcadaudience was general user community, anyone that would care what our high-level roadmap looks like
02:17.24brlcadso they did have a little bit of a point, whether it matters for this was arguable, but it was enough to not send it out without thinking about reworking some parts
02:21.40Ralithah well.
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03:01.49IriX64http://rafb.net/p/ushWLt28.html   <---- 3 or 4 of these went by, do you know or care about them?
03:04.00IriX64or is my compiler in error :)
03:08.06IriX64http://rafb.net/p/NItopl53.html  <--- this too my compiler presented me with
03:12.02IriX64sigh... i wish i'd never dropped out of special ed :)
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10:09.14mafmhi
10:23.48csanyipalhi
10:25.11csanyipalRalith: when I create a plane as arb8 shape with zero hight, then I can't raytrace it, in the framebuffer it can't see. Why?
10:26.23Ralithcsanyipal: as far as the raytracer is concerned, if it doesn't have volume, it doesn't exist.
10:38.00csanyipalRalith: OK thanks!
11:01.33Axman6ha, set brlcad to checkout about 12 hours ago... came home, it was asking me to if i want to accept the ssh key -_-
11:02.19Axman6s/set brlcad to checkout/set svn to checkout brlcad
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14:01.49brlcadcsanyipal: I was saying yesterday, there is an infinite-plane primitive -- it's the "half" halfspace primitive
14:07.26csanyipalbrlcad: thank you, I find it, and tried it out.
14:09.58csanyipalStill I don't know how to create the shape that is on the picture "Azimuth, Elevation, and the xyz Coordinate System" in the tutorial "Volume II - Introduction to MGED" at page 18.
14:12.10csanyipalThat shape shows the angle of the Azimuth.
14:13.03brlcadI modeled that, what would you like to know?
14:13.21brlcadit's a pretty simple shape
14:24.08csanyipalIt's difficult to explain because of my "weak" English.
14:26.15brlcadI went to some intricate lengths to get exact cuts and no overlaps with very specific shapes in mind -- but the basic shape is that of a torus with arbs cutting off the portion I didn't want and a tgc on the end
14:26.19csanyipalThe shape looks like a part of a torus and have in front a trc Truncated Right Cone
14:26.37brlcadbasically
14:27.05brlcadit could be done a little more easily using a pipe, but I didn't know it back then
14:27.20brlcadone pipe with a tgc, no need for subtracted arbs
14:28.25csanyipalBut can one bend a pipe?
14:30.31csanyipalAnd how to direct the tgc in the right direction?
14:31.13brlcadof course you can bend a pipe, that's what they consist of -- bend segments and straight segments
14:31.33csanyipalAha, there is a bend point!
14:31.49brlcadtrc's are the same as a tgc, just a specific subcase
14:32.01csanyipalI try the command in pipe.s pipe
14:32.05brlcadall the conics end up being a tgc as it's a general case
14:32.23csanyipalyes
14:32.29brlcadthe tgc is specified with a point and a vector -- that puts it in the right direction
14:33.10brlcadthere are just additional vectors for orienting and sizing the top ellipse and base ellipse caps
14:33.27csanyipaltgc has a Vertex and a high vector and radius of base and of top
14:33.53brlcadfew more parameters
14:34.18brlcadsounds about right for the trc
14:36.21csanyipalI know that but when I want to give the values (x,y,z) for the high vector then .. OK, I'll try it out now.
14:37.23csanyipalthanks for the advice about pipe!
14:37.30brlcadstart with something simple so you understand the shape, and turn on your model axes so you can see what direction is what
14:37.55csanyipalyes, I did that alreday..
14:38.01csanyipalalready
14:38.26csanyipalo
14:38.28csanyipalok
15:17.12csanyipalbrlcad: If you have i little time: I don't understand at pipe the points for the pipe and bend points
15:18.03csanyipalmged> in pipe.s pipe 2 0 0 0 0.1 1 100 100 0 0 0.1 1 50
15:18.41csanyipalgive to me a right pipe and not a bended pipe
15:23.53csanyipalbrlcad: OK I find a tutorial for the pipe in the Volume III - Principles of Effective Modelling
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22:19.30misteriexousi have a grammar check languagetool.org + new java6.0 engine
22:19.57misteriexous(just want to know an exact time at ibot)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081226

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081226

00:02.58mafmnight
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10:48.18mafmhi
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15:16.35``Eriktop level half royally screws the geometric tree
15:16.45``Eriksssllloooowwww raytracing
15:24.29``ErikI feel dirty for dorking with a linux machine, apparently redhat has something called 'yum', but I still feel dirty
15:25.23``Erikbought punker an 'aspire one' leenewx subnotebook
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19:40.36csanyipalHi
19:41.05csanyipalI need some advices about giving a bend radius for a pipe.
19:41.30csanyipalHere is the screenshot of the MGED's Graphics Window:
19:41.32csanyipalhttp://s520.photobucket.com/albums/w327/csanyipal/?action=view&current=how2_bend_pipes1.jpg
19:42.50csanyipalThis is in Top View.
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21:06.18IriX64``Erik... that pick problem is driving me snakey, http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/mged.tar.bz2 if you want a peek
22:21.41csanyipalI have created a pipe with 2 endpoints. I want o give to pipe a bend at middle of the pipe. What to do to get a bend pipe?
22:23.19csanyipalI tried from Edit menu Set Pipe Bend but what to do next here?
22:24.38csanyipalMust I have a pipe with three points to get a bend pipe?
22:25.35csanyipalOr can I get a bend pipe with two endpoints pipe?
22:27.36csanyipalThe bend points are virtual so I can't set any Bend point, isn't?
22:29.08DanielFalckI might be able to help...
22:29.24DanielFalcklet me find a way of posting something
22:29.50DanielFalckI did an 'elbow' by making a pipe with 3 points
22:30.14DanielFalckI'm not sure how to dump output for you to see
22:30.28DanielFalcklet me private im you
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081227

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01:21.25mafmbye
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07:37.23csanyipalHi,
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11:54.21mafmhi
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15:52.28csanyipalHi, how can I set the Key Point when I'm editing a shape?
15:55.22csanyipalI want to move a point in a pipe but how can I determine which point to be that for moving?
16:05.57csanyipalOK I find it..
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22:47.54csanyipalHi, just want to ask about editing pipe.
22:48.37csanyipalI selected a pipe and want to change the Point OD.
22:49.31csanyipalI selected from menu the "Set Point OD" and type the command "p 3".
22:49.42csanyipalThen I get an error message:
22:49.53csanyipalError: A solid editor option not selected
22:50.26csanyipalWhy get I this error message?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081228

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081228

00:00.44IriX64is there a way to ensure installation of the tcl/tk lib distributed with the source?
00:05.12IriX64http://rafb.net/p/32rctE14.html    <--- i get this at startup
00:11.48IriX64never mind, --enable-everything says itll build this time, thanks.
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08:03.59csanyipalHi, I try to install BRL-CAD from SVN source on Debian GNU/Linux Etch system, but the installation fails at make command.
08:04.50csanyipalI get the error message:
08:04.52csanyipaldm-ogl.c:134: undefined reference to `ogl_interface'
08:05.04csanyipaldm-ogl.c:141: undefined reference to `_ogl_open_existing'
08:05.16csanyipalmged-dm-ogl.o: In function `Ogl_doevent':
08:05.25csanyipaldm-ogl.c:158: undefined reference to `glXMakeCurrent'
08:05.28csanyipaletc..
08:05.54csanyipalI have installed nvidia driver with glx.
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12:37.02csanyipalwow! I delete the brlcad directory, download from SVN again, compiled and build brlcad, and get the working BRL-CAD with Archer too, with Tire Wizard and raytrace!!
12:41.08csanyipalBut, in Archer there isn't tool to create a Pipe, only arb6, arb8, tgc, sphere, torus, but not a Pipe.. :(
12:46.11csanyipalbut I can to make a pipe in the command line prompt. Thanks to the Developers!
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13:46.45csanyipalBut there isn't an Archer Help!!
14:11.03csanyipalIn Archer, how can I select for Edit a created shape?
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15:59.27mafmhi
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18:09.21brlcadcsanyipal: still a bit of holiday delinquency going on -- sorry for all the lack of responses :)
18:26.09csanyipalbrlcad: no problem..
18:27.16csanyipalI see that Archer isn't working as I would expected, so I return to MGED..
18:29.24brlcadyep, archer is far from fully functional, but definitely improving fast
18:29.34brlcadas portions of mged are migrated over to archer
18:35.57brlcadcsanyipal: if you see problems with archer, you could send them to the brlcad-devel mailing list, get the attention of Bob .. it's his baby and wants to make it better
18:36.43csanyipalbrlcad: OK
18:40.05*** join/#brlcad jonored (n=jonored@pool-71-184-9-156.bstnma.east.verizon.net)
20:06.16csanyipalI try to put some text into my model with command:
20:06.44csanyipalin Xchar.s ebm
20:07.26csanyipaland enter the name of the file.bmp,
20:08.15csanyipalwidth, height, and extrusion distance
20:08.53csanyipalbut get in the model something that I can't to recognize as a X character.
20:09.35brlcadfile.bmp is a windows bmp file?
20:09.38csanyipalyes
20:09.49brlcadthe "bitmap" is an actual map of bit values, an old school unix file format, not bmp files
20:09.51csanyipalI made it with GIMP
20:10.06csanyipalaha
20:11.27brlcadsave out a black and white image as png file, then run png-bw
20:11.43csanyipalOK
20:11.46csanyipalthanks
20:11.53brlcadthat bw file should be the right input format iirc
20:33.55csanyipalbrlcad: I tried that, but still can't get an ebm that looks like X character.
20:36.18brlcadthen it's still not the right data
20:36.45brlcadah, perhaps that bw's are 0-255, and it's literally looking for 0-1 values
20:37.00brlcadlemme check
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20:42.56brlcadcsanyipal: try using this png, http://brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/ebmtitle.png
20:43.02brlcadit's 954x202
20:43.54brlcadthat's the png that was used as the starting point for the example primitives
20:44.11brlcadI don't have an install here, or I'd give it a try
20:51.17brlcadmay need to run bwthresh 128 < file.bw > file2.bw
20:52.32csanyipalbrlcad: thanks
20:59.57brlcadhm, looks like bw is right -- and it only cares if it's zero or non-zero for the hit/miss
21:07.24csanyipalI downloaded ebmtitle.png, run on it: png-bw ebmtitle.png > ebmtitle.bw
21:08.40csanyipaland run: bwthresh 128 < ebmtitle.bw > ebmtitle2.bw
21:10.53csanyipalthen try in MGED
21:11.04csanyipalin Xchar.s ebm
21:11.16csanyipalenter the file path
21:11.37csanyipalEnter width of bit-map (number of cells): 10
21:11.45csanyipalEnter height of bit-map (number of cells): 10
21:11.47csanyipalEnter extrusion distance: 10
21:12.05csanyipalbut get nothing in the Graphics Window
21:45.14csanyipalI must go now.
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23:26.15riesHey All, is brlcad a parametric solid modeler?
23:34.07riesOoo never mind.... it doesn't seems to have a GUI
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081229

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081229

00:34.48*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
00:36.28elite01`bdayries, there's mged
00:36.38elite01`bdayand, uh, some new prototype gui, see topic
00:36.45elite01`bdayi have no idea since i didn't use brlcad for quite some time
00:38.30rieselite01`bday: okey... I am looking for a free/cheap solid modeler with parametric capabilities
00:38.32riesthat's how I found nlrcad
00:38.55elite01`bdayno idea what you mean by parametric capabilities
00:39.01elite01`bdaybut i guess brlcad will do just fine :)
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00:50.38Ralithelite01`bday, parametric is things like 'sph1.s has a radius equal to the diameter of rcc1.s'
00:50.52Ralithafaik.
00:52.28Ralithries, brlcad *does* have a GUI, it's just not very intuitive.
00:52.41elite01`bdayoh, no idea then
00:52.53riesRalith: I was reading one tutorial.... let me check the link...
00:52.54Ralithalso, parametrics are very WIP to the point of being unsupported currently, I think.
00:53.12riesRalith:  what is WIP?
00:53.16Ralithwork in progress
00:53.21Ralithries, read the introduction to mged pdf available at brlcad.org
00:54.12riesRalith: I looked at this one : http://brlcad.org/wiki/SGI_Cube
00:54.18riesBut got scared by 'The Script'
00:55.23Raliththat's not a tutorial
00:55.38Raliththat's a demonstration of control through an external program
00:55.39rieshehehe I must have looked wrong....
00:55.46Ralithread the pdf
00:56.02riesRalith: I am currently building a CSS router (2440 x 1220 in size)
00:56.12Ralitha what
00:56.14riescould I use blrCAD be used to create designs?
00:56.22riesthen 'some' other tool to make cut paths?
00:56.30Ralithyou mean CNC?
00:56.35riess/CSS router/CNC router/
00:56.39riesyeaaa my bad...
00:57.04RalithI know someone who's currently working on a program to generate toolpaths for additive rapid prototyping
00:57.12Ralithyou might be able to adapt that for subtractive
00:57.39Ralithbrlcad can also export STLs at a sacrifice of quality, which can then be fed into most other tools, like GCAM
00:57.52Ralithwhich will generate subtractive toolpaths
00:58.00riesI will give brlcad a shot... see how it works
00:58.13Ralithit's a lot of work to learn, and isn't the best for creating original designs yet
00:58.46riesHmmmm ic....
00:58.55rieshow is brlcad used currently then?
01:00.14louipcgcam takes stl?
01:02.47mafmbye
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03:52.01Ralithlouipc, no idea.
03:52.21RalithI'm not really sure what gcam does at all
05:57.03DanielFalckpycam takes stl files and creates cnc toolpaths
05:57.09DanielFalckit's on sourceforge
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12:51.21csanyipalHi,
12:52.59csanyipalI made a symple model of the xyz coordinate system using shapes as: rcc, trc, pipe
12:53.47csanyipalWorking on it I think about that, that I wish to have in MGED a line shape.
12:56.46csanyipalBut this line shape should be using only ashelpers, and after work is done, it sould be deleted.
13:01.36csanyipalI tried also to insert an ebm but with no success. Are there any tutorial, or documentation for ebm?
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13:12.24mafmhi
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17:58.59PrezKennedypokes brlcad
17:59.12PrezKennedyhow did i know youd be the first to see my invitation on there? :P
19:32.03brlcadPrezKennedy: beats me :)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20081230

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081230

00:00.32yukonbob_hi cadheads
00:15.33brlcadhowdy yukonbob_
00:28.44mafmquiet night, like the christmas son :)
00:29.06mafmsong*
00:32.47brlcad:)
00:52.07mafmwell, time to sleep
00:52.08mafmbye!
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12:35.40csanyipalHi, how can I set my Country so if someone see my info thatn he can to see it?
12:35.49csanyipalsorry..
13:02.12*** join/#brlcad ries (n=ries@190.12.51.7)
13:03.24csanyipalHi,
13:03.49csanyipalI try to insert ebm in to the model with MGED.
13:04.28csanyipalI have an image saved from the GIMP as .xbm file
13:05.38csanyipalI saved it as X10 bit format.
13:06.16csanyipalI can to open this file with an editor and can to see there in the file numbers.
13:07.23csanyipalThe numbers are eg.: 0xffff, 0x03ff, 0x7fff, etc.
13:10.11*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01)
13:11.32csanyipalWhen I type the following command at mged> prompt: in szoveg1.s ebm brl-cad.xbm 100 20 40
13:12.03csanyipalI get only an arb8 shape and not a text: BRL-CAD.
13:12.22csanyipalCan anybody help me with this?
13:29.20csanyipalWhen I add in the abowe mentioned command the real bitmap width and hight than I get an error message:
13:29.32csanyipalrt_ebm_import() file 'brl-cad.xbm' is too short 101097 < 192708
13:29.32csanyipalrt_db_external5_to_internal5(szoveg1.s):  import failure
13:29.32csanyipaldb_recurse() rt_db_get_internal(szoveg1.s) FAIL
13:45.35mafmbye
13:54.21brlcadcsanyipal: set your country?
13:55.05brlcadif anyone really cares, a quick search on your IP indicates somewhere around/in Serbia .. you mean on irc or in mged? :)
13:56.09brlcadcsanyipal: that's the same as I said before -- that's not the right file format, it's not an xbm (but that was a much better guess than a bmp)
13:56.57brlcaddid you try using the sample png I gave you?  try the png-bw on it? and try creating an ebm with that
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15:28.48csanyipalbrlcad: for the country question: it's been posted here by my mistake.
15:29.12csanyipalbrlcad: finally, I have success with ebm! :)
15:31.07csanyipalbrlcad: I'm using the sample png You give me. Tried png-bw on it. Then tried creating an ebm with that..
15:31.31csanyipalbrlcad: and finally I have success.
15:33.22csanyipalbrlcad: It seems to me that that I must to type the real width and the real hight of the png in the command for inserting ebm.
15:44.43csanyipalbrlcad: well, I made a png image wit a X character, and image has white background and black foreground.
15:45.22csanyipalbrlcad: with this png I get in MGED the X ebm, but also that X char is in an arb8.
15:46.28csanyipalbrlcad: So it seems to me that that I must to edit this png in GIMP so I get the black background and white foreground and try with that png..
15:48.55brlcadyes, the ebm has to match the image dimensions, not the 3D dimensions you want to end up with
15:49.14csanyipalbrlcad: And finally, I get the X character as I wish!!
15:49.19brlcadgreat :)
15:50.02brlcadand yeah, values are zero->nothing, nonzero->geometry
15:50.13csanyipalbrlcad: Thanks again!!
15:50.38csanyipalbrlcad: aha, I understand now!
15:52.52PrezKennedybrlcad, i saw the picture of your car
15:53.08PrezKennedyfreakin awesome, i think you need to come visit and take me for a ride!
15:57.42brlcadPrezKennedy: thanks, it is pretty sweet!
15:58.36PrezKennedyyou should convince my dad to get one
15:58.42brlcada bit tricky to get in and out of, but well worth the ride ;)
15:59.19PrezKennedyhow high does the speedometer go?
15:59.41brlcadmm, 180 or something
16:00.16brlcadiirc, top speed is rated at 160
16:01.56PrezKennedyi want one!
16:02.12PrezKennedyactually... i want a delorean, but id take one of those too
16:02.13PrezKennedy:p
16:15.07brlcadhttp://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3083/delorean1rh9.png
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17:04.33PrezKennedybrlcad, definitely
17:07.00Axman6brlcad: got a link to a pic of your car? i'm curious now
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20:18.31brlcadAxman6: sure, http://brlcad.org/~sean/elle.jpg
21:08.53ries2brlcad: that is a very nice color and good looking car you have there
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21:32.39Ralithbrlcad, that's your car? Nice!
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21:57.39csanyipalI made a small tutorial for EBM and try to put it on brlcad/wiki.
22:37.08csanyipalI made it: http://brlcad.org/wiki/EBM#Inserting_ebm_in_MGED
22:37.16csanyipalWhat do you think about it?
22:39.12brlcadcsanyipal: fantastic :)
22:39.18brlcadries2: thanks
22:39.18csanyipal:)
22:41.06brlcadyeah, that looks really nice
22:41.08ries2brlcad: if I may ask.. what brand is it??
22:41.14brlcadries2: Lotus
22:41.21ries2smoke.....
22:41.29ries2that's a really nice one..
22:41.33Ralithnever imagined you'd be the one to have a car like that
22:41.44brlcadRalith: oh? :)
22:42.10Ralithhas never associated technical people with ubercars
22:42.13ries2brlcad: brlcad makes money??? :)
22:42.17Ralithhehe
22:42.24Ralithso it would seem.
22:42.35brlcadis a workaholic, loves to code
22:42.45ries2hehehe good... you deserve it!!!
22:42.55Ralithwell, nothing compares to an enjoyable well-paying job
22:43.34brlcadlove what you do, find someone to pay you to do what you love, be one of the best at what you do .. makes a lot of things possible ;)
22:43.52RalithI can only hope to do the same someday
22:43.58brlcadyeah, I'm not a gearhead to say the least .. all of my previous cars have been crap and I drive them into the ground
22:45.22brlcadbut this car is a lot like code optimization, just got around to optimizing my transportation
22:45.58ries2brlcad: I do the same... I have a car I like very much myself (A grand cherokee limited V8)
22:46.15ries2a lotus here in Ecuador wouldn't do much joy here ... I wouldn't even get home with it !!!!
22:47.05brlcadjeje
22:48.00ries2brlcad: you are spanish??
22:48.42brlcadbilingual, de panam?
22:49.50ries2???
22:50.09ries2I am dutch, just happen to live in Ecuador
22:50.23brlcadah, :)
22:50.59brlcadI'm not human, just happen to live on Earth
22:52.17ries2that happens.... welcome on planet earth then...
22:52.22brlcadthx
22:58.00csanyipalI have the EBM tutorial in the DocBook.xml format now, but this page hasn't css page..
23:00.08csanyipalIf you think that that this tutorial is useful to include it in to a brl-cad release than I will send it..
23:00.45brlcadcsanyipal: absolutely -- little tutorials like that are gold
23:01.09csanyipalOK how to send it together with three images?
23:01.20brlcadsure
23:02.38csanyipalall together
23:04.15Ralithbrlcad: I think his point was that it can't be fed to a web browser yet.
23:15.39TwingyPrezKennedy: http://js.cx/~justin/images/justin_bttf.jpg
23:16.08PrezKennedynice
23:16.16PrezKennedyi love that car
23:16.41PrezKennedyid settle for one without all the nerdy attachments though :p
23:17.29brlcadTwingy: hehe, nice -- where is that?
23:17.40Twingyuniversal studios
23:17.41PrezKennedylooks like universal studios
23:18.00Twingysame car they used on wikipedia
23:18.01PrezKennedywas that the ride attraction they had?
23:18.15Twingyyes
23:19.04PrezKennedyi think they closed that finally didnt they?
23:19.15Twingydunno, that picture was from 2005
23:19.56PrezKennedyi went and saw it back in 1995 or 96
23:20.07Twingyditto
23:20.32PrezKennedymom has all the cool vacation pictures
23:20.36PrezKennedyshe needs to scan them
23:27.32Twingybrlcad: do you know of a light weight opengl volume rendering engine other than vre?
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23:44.44pacman87brlcad: i just bought one of those too, except i was playing forza :)
23:57.49csanyipalso long!
IRC log for #brlcad on 20081231

IRC log for #brlcad on 20081231

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01:54.29Axman6brlcad: oh damn, just woke up and checked out that link for your car, i'm very jealous
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04:16.03Scott_hi, has anyone here had problems with adobe fonts?
04:42.52yukonbob_hello, cadheads
04:52.15Scott_i dont think anyones really here
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09:37.10csanyipalHi
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15:01.58brlcadAxman6: thanks, I'm pretty happy with it ;)
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15:27.31mafmhi
15:27.56brlcadhowdy mafm
15:32.43mafmhowdy :)
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15:53.12*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.0 is now posted (20081108)
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16:35.38yukonbob_morning cadheads
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16:40.26Axman6happy new year yukonbob_!
16:40.38Axman6and hello from the future!
16:41.09Axman62009 is better than anyone exer dreamed! flying cars cost $5US, and run on CO2 from the atmosphere!
16:41.23Axman6and with that lovely news, i'm off to bed. night all
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18:13.02PrezKennedyunfortunately 2009 is when the world flooded and became a horrible kevin costner movie
18:13.11PrezKennedyso the cars may fly, but they have nowhere to land
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19:57.31CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33434 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/regdef.c: Mods to get current values.
19:58.33mafmbye cadheads :)
19:59.12CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33435 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ged.c: Minor mods.
20:00.40CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33436 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/vutil.c: Modified ged_view_update to call gv_callback.
20:04.01CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33437 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: Activate struct ged's gv_callback and gv_clientData members. Added a few function declarations.
20:04.53CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33438 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (arot.c rot.c scale.c tra.c): Split out the arg parsing into separate functions.
20:07.30CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33439 10/brlcad/trunk/src/mged/ (42 files): More mods to get MGED using libged.
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